The Talk Show

113: ‘A Tube of Lubricant for Your Life’ With Guest Matthew Panzarino


00:00:00   So live in life one eyed.

00:00:02   I'll tell you, you know, it's like, you know, everybody knows growing up that if you only have one eye you lose depth perception.

00:00:08   You know it and you can play with it for five minutes by closing one of your eyes or whatever.

00:00:12   But if you just spend two weeks with only one good eye,

00:00:16   fucking sucks.

00:00:19   I swear to God, I'm always bumping into people like in the supermarket or like

00:00:25   Shake Shack, I just bumped right into a guy because I have no idea how close I am to people

00:00:29   It's not just depth perception, right? It's a blind side like you're living with the blind side

00:00:34   So you have you know things coming at you from that side and you don't know they're there until the last second

00:00:39   Yeah, I what did to me as a and I'm not driving

00:00:42   I don't even at but I live in a city so I don't need to drive but as a pedestrian

00:00:46   When I hear footsteps, it's my left eye and when I hear footsteps on my left from behind me, it's total freakout

00:00:53   it really is it's bizarre because it's like I don't see them until they're in

00:00:58   front of me like a primal response yeah well it's just years of city living I

00:01:04   don't know you just if you hear footsteps behind you you know when

00:01:06   you're supposed to see them if they're you know somebody's walking faster than

00:01:09   you and they're gonna they're gonna pass you you just know when you're supposed

00:01:13   to see them and for it's like five or six feet off for me now it makes you

00:01:18   wonder how pirates got anything done I think that's why they use telescopes

00:01:26   instead of binoculars that's like they're like binoculars I only need one

00:01:32   can you can I just can I get half off if I just have the one so Matthew

00:01:37   Panzarena welcome to the talk show I can't believe it's been this long and

00:01:40   that you've never been on the show yeah I was I was starting to get a complex

00:01:45   you are my officially delegated surrogate from this week's Apple event

00:01:51   two days ago yeah it was life casting we just had a permanent meerkat open I just

00:01:58   hung my life casting camera around my neck how about that app I I just joined

00:02:02   yesterday I haven't done anything with it yet but what's the deal with that

00:02:07   meerkat I mean it's interesting for sure there's mm-hmm there's been like like

00:02:13   live streaming stuff like this for a long time. The whole JustinCon, JustinTV thing,

00:02:18   which turned into Twitch, and the whole bit. It's not like this is a new concept, it's

00:02:24   just there's a bunch of factors that are all aligning to create an uptake of it. Twitter

00:02:29   has critical mass now, LTE is everywhere. There's a variety of little things that have

00:02:35   kind of added up to, I think we're going to see a little resurgence of this. But, Meerkat

00:02:39   itself is interesting. It's one tap. You can start streaming immediately. It doesn't require

00:02:45   you set up any accounts because it uses Twitter as a backbone. It's kind of compelling. I'm

00:02:52   not the kind of person who's going to just stream constantly, but if I'm doing something

00:02:56   really interesting, like my first Meerkat I did was on a roller coaster at Disneyland.

00:03:02   So a couple minutes before I got on California Scream and I opened it up and I started talking

00:03:09   of people and you know before I knew it 30, 40 people were on there, right? And they're

00:03:13   just watching me stand in the line for the roller coaster. And so I said, "Okay, we're

00:03:17   going to get on." I was like, "Give them a little roller coaster history, you know,

00:03:20   why this roller coaster was different than other ones, blah, blah, blah." And then I

00:03:23   just sat there and like 30 people came along with me on the ride. I held it up. I was in

00:03:27   front row. I held it up and they rode the roller coaster with me, which I thought was

00:03:31   interesting.

00:03:33   But if anybody out there doesn't know, so Meerkat, it's an iPhone app. I don't think

00:03:38   it's is there an iPad version or is it iPhone only now it's just iPhone so it's

00:03:42   iPhone only no website no Android not that I know of no no I don't get it

00:03:46   iPhone only you sign in with Twitter you have to you know Twitter is the only

00:03:51   option you sign in with your Twitter account and if you want to you can start

00:03:55   streaming at any time and I guess it uses the FaceTime camera and or I guess

00:03:59   either camera yeah either you can flip it back and forth and when you hit

00:04:03   stream it tweets for you and just says whatever you want it to say like hey I'm

00:04:07   outside the Apple event or "hey I'm going on Space Mountain" and then your

00:04:12   you know your Twitter followers will see the tweet and if they want to they

00:04:17   tap a thing and it takes them over to the Meerkat app and they can watch it with you.

00:04:23   It's extremely simple. The interface just has a little row of icons that kind of

00:04:27   show you

00:04:28   the Twitter profile picture of the people that are watching and then they can

00:04:33   when they

00:04:34   reply to you in app it tweets publicly so the conversation happens in public on

00:04:38   twitter all right right right and that is uh... i think essential to it is

00:04:41   there when they reply to you the tweet show up in the app

00:04:44   itself so you can hold like and i saw a bunch of uh... whole bunch of people did

00:04:49   this after the album is a to hold a mere cat session and do like you and a and

00:04:52   their twitter followers could say

00:04:54   hey am i can i just by the milanese band

00:04:58   on my own yes yes you can you know whatever but they can ask the questions

00:05:01   and you see them

00:05:03   And I think that that feedback, that instantaneous access to people is compelling.

00:05:08   I have a...

00:05:10   I'm kind of thinking about this like, what does it do?

00:05:14   What is the purpose?

00:05:15   I mean, I don't know what the purpose is.

00:05:16   I don't know whether they're going to be able to monetize it.

00:05:18   I don't know whether it's a fad.

00:05:19   I don't know any of that stuff.

00:05:20   I'm not trying to predict the future on that.

00:05:22   But it does seem interesting to me as a sort of empathy machine because when you see produced

00:05:28   video of a person, there's a disconnect.

00:05:30   You know, it's something that's not live, it's not immediate.

00:05:33   And I think that Snapchat, Meerkat, Vine, a lot of these things that are producing sort

00:05:38   of rawer content, those are kind of all along the lines of these empathy machines where

00:05:43   they create a feeling of empathy with the person that you're watching and the person

00:05:47   that's viewing.

00:05:48   And so that's an interesting thing to me.

00:05:50   Whether or not it'll last, I don't know.

00:05:52   But that's kind of something to watch, I think.

00:05:55   seems to me my first take and I I'm late to pick this up like I said I don't even

00:06:01   signed up for it yesterday I think or maybe the day before but it and I get

00:06:08   and when did it come out like last week yeah it's it's kind of a long story they

00:06:12   had they had this other thing and then they they stopped doing it because they

00:06:15   had a lot of problems but this was an offshoot of that and a couple of weeks

00:06:18   ago they put it on product hunt and it just kind of took off from product hunt

00:06:22   and a bunch of the tech narati started using it and then you know because of

00:06:27   it it's it's sort of an incestuous Twitter group everybody started grabbing

00:06:32   it and watching the streams and then creating their own because like I said

00:06:35   it's one tap so once you open the app you can start streaming immediately

00:06:39   there's no complicated setup no and it's you know it it does seem like a typical

00:06:45   valley venture play because surely that the all this free streaming is costing

00:06:51   the money and streaming is not cheap

00:06:55   right absolutely it's not it's it's gotta take as a nice backbone of server

00:07:00   architecture to to execute

00:07:02   and twitter just actually bought

00:07:04   uh... an unlaunched

00:07:06   sort of version of miracle periscope

00:07:09   uh... we where we heard that they bought it uh... we could go and i guess

00:07:13   somebody else's confirmed it uh... yesterday or whatever

00:07:16   but it's

00:07:17   It's very interesting in terms of a Twitter accessory, you know?

00:07:21   Yeah.

00:07:22   Well, but that's interesting too, though, that they, Twitter just bought somebody who does the same thing.

00:07:26   'Cause to me, it seems as though Meerkat's play is to get bought by Twitter.

00:07:31   Right.

00:07:32   Because it's, and I don't blame them.

00:07:34   Like in some sense, in some ways, putting the business aside and who's gonna buy, whether you're hoping to IPO or whether you're hoping that Twitter buys you or somebody.

00:07:43   It's very interesting to me that the one and only way to sign into the thing is Twitter.

00:07:49   That they're completely building it as a, I mean, and who knows, they might change that

00:07:53   in the future, but at least right now, it is completely built on the back of Twitter.

00:07:58   Like you said, the replies go out as tweets, everything is a public conversation outside

00:08:03   of Meerkat on Twitter, other than the stream itself, which is in Meerkat.

00:08:08   Yeah, and I think they did that.

00:08:10   I think the founder said something, I was watching a little thread with him, I didn't

00:08:13   him personally but he said that they did it that way because their previous product which

00:08:17   was also a streaming product of some sort, they had a lot of problems with trolling,

00:08:22   you know with people streaming and then people jumping on there and creating usernames or

00:08:26   whatever and being acidic or you know crappy to people streaming and so they said that

00:08:33   the public conversation actually worked better. People were more on point.

00:08:39   I believe you know.

00:08:40   But then also it also sort of puts the onus on Twitter to handle the creation of throwaway

00:08:46   spam accounts.

00:08:47   Yeah, exactly.

00:08:48   Which, you know, is something Twitter obviously has to be doing anyway.

00:08:53   It's not certainly not like they're adding to Twitter's burden.

00:08:56   No, no.

00:08:57   I mean, they, it's a smart move to offload any of the complexities of creating a commenting

00:09:03   structure or account management to another network.

00:09:06   long as your model

00:09:09   isn't hurt by the fact that you're not owning your network

00:09:12   and so that's, as you mentioned, that's one of the key things, it's like what are they

00:09:15   trying to do? Well

00:09:16   it seems like they need to be sort of held in the bosom of a larger thing

00:09:21   unless they figure out a way

00:09:22   to monetize it that doesn't

00:09:24   remove the simplicity. You know, what are you going to do, Meerkat with like

00:09:28   sponsored by such-and-such layered over the top of it? I don't know, maybe, you know?

00:09:35   So you did a Meerkat from outside the event?

00:09:39   Yeah I did. Well I did actually one kind of inside the event just before it.

00:09:44   You know they typically get kind of angry at you if you stream the stuff because they're already streaming it or whatever.

00:09:49   So I just did a little bit before the event to let people see what was going on inside there and then a little bit from the demo room.

00:09:55   room and you know kind of let people walk around and and and then I did did a question Q&A afterwards

00:10:01   in the St Regis which is across the street and it was just sat in the lobby there and answered

00:10:07   a bunch of questions people were tweeting me about like the watch and the laptop and stuff

00:10:12   just trying to stream of consciousness it yeah yeah yeah how many people do you get watching those

00:10:17   uh like the the final Q&A did I think I got like 250 or so wow that's pretty good yeah

00:10:25   I mean as a fraction of people, because remember this is a synchronous thing, right?

00:10:30   It's not asynchronous in any way, shape, or form.

00:10:32   People have to be fully dedicated.

00:10:34   Their whole iPhone screen is given over to you.

00:10:36   This is why, by the way, these VCs are salivating, right?

00:10:39   And looking at these apps and going like, "Oh my God," you know?

00:10:42   Because you're actually reaching out and taking over somebody's complete attention and their

00:10:47   entire screen of their iPhone.

00:10:49   And anytime you can do that, I mean, that's insane to them.

00:10:53   - I think that the next five years

00:10:55   is gonna be a transition.

00:10:58   It's already started.

00:11:00   To me it started with Instagram

00:11:01   when Instagram started iPhone only.

00:11:04   And that's years ago at this point.

00:11:07   But I feel like Instagram was so far ahead of its time

00:11:10   in terms of going app only to launch.

00:11:13   And I feel like the next five years

00:11:15   is gonna be a transition in that direction.

00:11:18   And not even just phone only.

00:11:19   I mean, clearly, eventually,

00:11:21   you could go watch only at this point,

00:11:23   I mean, as we'll get into over the course of the show,

00:11:25   but that doing a website and making it a web service

00:11:30   that anybody can just go to,

00:11:32   I guess it would be meerkat.com or whatever,

00:11:34   is an old way of thinking.

00:11:36   And not that it's bad,

00:11:39   and not that there won't be in the future

00:11:41   brand new things that start as websites

00:11:43   and have success and they're appropriate.

00:11:45   It's just that there are certain ideas and concepts

00:11:49   that work better or best or maybe even only as an app.

00:11:54   - Yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree.

00:11:57   I think you're sort of unlocking,

00:12:00   I would have to say most of it is built around context,

00:12:05   'cause the mobile device offers,

00:12:07   there's only really one context for web,

00:12:09   and that's that somebody's looking at their computer screen.

00:12:12   Whereas the context for mobile is a lot of things,

00:12:14   your location, your speed, the weather,

00:12:19   there's lots of other things that are coming into play when you have a mobile

00:12:22   device that could be literally anywhere in the world at any altitude above the

00:12:26   surface of the planet, you know, or below, and all of a sudden you've got a lot more

00:12:30   variety of stuff, you know. What if somebody creates a version of Meerkat

00:12:34   just for spelunkers, right? Oh, I love spelunking, I want to watch the

00:12:38   spelunking channel. Well, it's no longer a channel on a website, it's a bespoke

00:12:43   app, you know, just watching spelunkers go down in caves. And I think that there's

00:12:48   gonna be a lot of interesting stuff like that whether or not those will scale i don't know

00:12:51   you know but the other thing too and i think you touched on this a few minutes ago is that

00:12:56   it's like with lte and its pervasiveness and its relative incredible speed is just how far

00:13:03   we've come so quickly like you know eight seven years ago when we had the original iphone it

00:13:10   didn't even do video and let alone have a front-facing camera it had one camera

00:13:17   shooting in the back, didn't do video period, and had edge cellular networking, which really

00:13:25   struggled even to load complex web pages.

00:13:30   And seven years later, people are streaming live, high-definition video from the secondary

00:13:38   camera on the device.

00:13:40   Yeah, I mean, and it's really good.

00:13:43   I mean, the video quality is pretty solid.

00:13:45   There are some finicky stuff about it that I think they need to improve.

00:13:50   But I've watched streams obviously and it's transportive.

00:13:55   You're there and that is insane.

00:14:00   I've walked around with it and moved.

00:14:03   I remember with video streaming, we went through this whole period where the bandwidth was

00:14:11   so poor on cellular, but just enough but too poor to really support it, where you would

00:14:17   get this bursty thing where it's just like, "Oh, it's fine," and then it's really, really

00:14:21   bad for ten minutes.

00:14:23   That would kill it, right?

00:14:24   You would be like, "I'm not going to watch this.

00:14:25   This is annoying.

00:14:26   It's stuttery," or whatever.

00:14:27   So if any one of those little factors doesn't work, then live streaming doesn't work.

00:14:31   So now we've got all the pieces, so it'll be interesting to see if it actually explodes

00:14:35   this time.

00:14:36   Yeah, I think it definitely caught my eye and the design of the app did too. Like it

00:14:43   is, like you said, it's one tap. And to me, I know it's like you think like, well,

00:14:49   they're, you know, they have a simple idea. It's really hard to get there design wise

00:14:52   to get into that. You can do something like that. Like this, the more brain dead, simple,

00:14:58   stupid something looks the harder it was to get from the original idea down to that, you

00:15:03   know one button away from streaming simplicity right one of the indicators

00:15:09   that I see of how easy it is it's actually funny but I've seen this a lot

00:15:13   because I've been kind of watching it as I picked it up a couple weeks ago and

00:15:16   then and have been investigating other stories about other similar setups as

00:15:19   I've been I've been kind of monitoring which people join and when they start

00:15:23   streaming and I've noticed that almost everybody you you didn't because I got

00:15:28   the push notification for you joining but because it basically uses your

00:15:32   network so you're i'm gonna get a notification for anybody i follow on

00:15:35   twitter joining it right right

00:15:38   i noticed that almost everybody joins and then immediately start streaming

00:15:42   and i'm convinced it's because they think there's more steps and they hit

00:15:45   the stream button

00:15:47   and it just starts streaming and by the time i see the notification and then i

00:15:51   go in they've already stopped and i have an ad need to ask somebody who does it

00:15:55   next time they do it did you just do it because you thought there'd be like

00:15:58   more setup for more steps and i think it's because

00:16:01   they go, oh, there's gotta be more.

00:16:03   And they just hit the stream button to see,

00:16:04   oh, what do I have to do to set this up?

00:16:05   And boom, their camera's on and they're like, oh.

00:16:08   And then they shut it off.

00:16:09   - But it's a funny thing too.

00:16:10   Not even funny, but just interesting.

00:16:12   And to me, you know, I'd be shocked if they don't come out

00:16:16   with an Android version sooner rather than later.

00:16:18   I mean, but going iOS first,

00:16:22   in addition to being able to piggyback off Twitter

00:16:25   and the social graph, as they call it,

00:16:29   the social graph that you already inherit

00:16:31   by using that as your thing,

00:16:33   and that you don't have to create

00:16:34   your own user account system,

00:16:35   and you don't have to police your own

00:16:37   spam account thing, et cetera, et cetera.

00:16:39   But by going on iOS, you also get the piggyback

00:16:42   off the built-in support for Twitter accounts system-wide.

00:16:47   And so you don't even have to type your password.

00:16:48   You just say, "Hey, Meerkat wants to use

00:16:51   "your Twitter account, is that all right?"

00:16:53   Yes, use this Twitter account that I've already configured,

00:16:57   and you're in.

00:16:57   And that is huge, too.

00:17:00   'Cause even if you have a shitty password,

00:17:02   even if you're not doing the right thing

00:17:05   and having uppercase and lowercase and numbers

00:17:08   and punctuation and all sorts of stuff,

00:17:10   and it still is always a pain in the ass.

00:17:13   It's even a pain in the ass to type in a shitty password,

00:17:15   truth be told.

00:17:16   And they totally get to skip that

00:17:19   in terms of just getting people on board.

00:17:22   - Right, and that conversion rate goes way up

00:17:26   when you have that access.

00:17:27   Like any shopping cart, if you're logged into Amazon,

00:17:30   much more likely to buy toilet paper or whatever than if you're not logged in you have to find your

00:17:33   password so it's the same concept yeah and then they well i'm even thinking like just to say

00:17:38   somebody's following you and maybe they've heard of meerkat whatever but then they see that you

00:17:43   say you're tweeting from the apple event and they're like oh shit i would like to see that

00:17:47   he's not even goofing around right now this is something follow the link download the app launch

00:17:52   the app boom you're in like you could and like you said it's it's synchronous you know you have to

00:17:57   you're doing this live. But even somebody who hadn't even downloaded the app could

00:18:02   catch in and jump into your stream in, I would honestly say, a minute. Right? Like give it

00:18:08   30 seconds for the app to download and 30…

00:18:10   Well, they have a web experience. So they do have a web version. It just doesn't…

00:18:14   you can't comment, you can't see all the stuff, but you can watch the stream on the

00:18:18   web. So they did provide a web viewer, like a bare bones viewer, but it runs on Flash

00:18:23   and it's not great. So it sort of acts as a teaser. But yeah, I think you're right.

00:18:28   I think you could, within a minute, download the app, log in because obviously it's pre-logged

00:18:33   in for you, essentially. You just have to opt in and then start watching the stream.

00:18:39   Absolutely. As long as somebody didn't shut down the stream within a minute, you'd be

00:18:41   watching them.

00:18:42   Yeah, I think that a lot of people who are going to join are going to do it at some point

00:18:47   when they see, "Oh, here's a stream I'm actually interested in starting right now. I better

00:18:51   jump in and you can do it because of the fact that they're piggybacking off the system

00:18:58   user, Twitter accounts and etc.

00:19:02   Let me take a break before we start talking about the event and I want to talk about our

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00:20:47   TTS

00:20:49   So the event Monday

00:20:51   Mm-hmm. What do you think overall? I

00:20:54   Thought it was good. I mean there are several standout things for me

00:20:59   I mean, I think that as usual when they have

00:21:02   Said something before and they say it again like this happens a lot at WWDC

00:21:06   You get a lot of the whole rehashed stuff and people kind of tune out, you know

00:21:10   until somebody says something new. So there was some of that going on with the watch stuff.

00:21:14   But I think that there were several key things. Obviously, leading with research kit was a

00:21:19   big curve ball. And I think anybody in my feed and people in our back channel were definitely

00:21:26   like, "What are we talking about? What is this?" And I think that that was a smart

00:21:32   move to kind of start with that and say, "Hey, we're going to talk about this cool thing

00:21:37   doing instead of maybe at the end where everybody's like oh yeah whatever you obviously put this at the

00:21:41   end because nobody cares right um so i think that was interesting the whole research kit thing is

00:21:46   i think an enormous long-term project for them i thought it was a research kit number one it was

00:21:52   interesting in and of itself but it was interesting in so far is that it completely went against the

00:21:57   last two months narrative of apple is totally backing away from health monitoring and

00:22:05   all this like health and you know fitness tracking stuff.

00:22:10   Ben

00:22:35   But in hindsight it makes complete sense.

00:22:38   So Research Kit is this framework that allows organizations like hospitals to do patient research on conditions like Parkinson's and other conditions.

00:22:50   And gather feedback essentially from those patients as far as their symptoms and their reactions to treatments.

00:22:57   And that's an enormous, I hesitate to say market, but it's an enormous opportunity, I guess, for hospitals.

00:23:07   Yeah, it's definitely, and it's clear just from how much time they spent on it in the event that it's a major initiative.

00:23:14   And it really does seem as though, you know, it's all new territory. There's never been anything like this before.

00:23:22   No, and the difference, they did, they said this in the keynote, that a lot of the research

00:23:28   on this is done with very small sample sizes, and it's done on paper and a lot of stuff

00:23:33   like that, and that's all accurate.

00:23:34   I talked to some people about this, and you know, they're incredibly excited.

00:23:39   People that are in this field, in the medical field, they're like, "Whoa, this is gonna

00:23:43   be awesome."

00:23:44   Because yeah, the iPhone is still a demo, right?

00:23:47   iPhone owners, that's still a demographic.

00:23:49   So you're not necessarily getting the absolute broadest spectrum, but it's way more than

00:23:55   a thousand people with pieces of paper.

00:23:58   So it's going to be big, I think.

00:24:00   Yeah.

00:24:01   And regarding the open source, I saw a lot of cynicism in that regard, specifically harkening

00:24:08   back to the announcement of FaceTime.

00:24:12   That's going to come back to bite them over and over, I think, until they do something

00:24:16   about it.

00:24:17   When was that?

00:24:18   2010?

00:24:19   10 2011 I don't yeah I think I don't remember exactly but you know obviously

00:24:23   Steve Jobs was still alive because it was Steve Jobs who announced that and

00:24:26   we're going to make it an open protocol I don't think he said open source I

00:24:30   think he said we're gonna make it an open protocol so that you know everybody

00:24:36   you know other phone makers could or computer makers whoever could make

00:24:40   FaceTime compatible software and obviously that didn't happen yeah the

00:24:46   quote was we're going to the standards bodies starting tomorrow. We're going to make FaceTime

00:24:51   an open industry standard. And that was in 2010 at WWDC.

00:24:55   So there's a lot of people who are like, "So yeah, I bet there's going to be open

00:24:58   space right after FaceTime." But so here's the thing. This truly is one of those like

00:25:04   things are different without Steve Jobs. Like I've said to people on Twitter, Steve Jobs was

00:25:10   impetuous. And I know for a fact that the FaceTime team found out that they were going to take it to

00:25:16   Open Standards bodies exactly when we did, when it was announced on stage.

00:25:21   Like that was something that Steve Jobs decided during rehearsals the week prior to the announcement.

00:25:29   He was like, "Why not? Let's do this," and didn't talk to the lawyers, didn't talk to the team.

00:25:34   So the source code, nothing was written with the idea that it would be an Open Standard.

00:25:38   And that I know. And then this I don't know, but it's I'm pretty sure, having talked to people

00:25:46   over the years about it, that they've had a lot of lawsuits regarding, you know, patent-related

00:25:52   lawsuits regarding FaceTime. And at least one of them made them change the protocol at some point.

00:26:00   And because there was – and I think it actually related to a time when FaceTime got flakier. Like,

00:26:06   Like they had to do so, they had to make some changes

00:26:08   and it actually made it worse.

00:26:10   - Oh yes, I remember that.

00:26:12   It was their routing protocol or something.

00:26:14   - Yeah.

00:26:14   - It was the way that they handed off from like a phone call

00:26:17   from a cellular network to the data network

00:26:19   or something like that.

00:26:19   - Yeah, I don't know.

00:26:20   The details I don't think are as interesting

00:26:22   as just the basic story though,

00:26:24   which is that patent litigation forced them

00:26:26   to change the protocol.

00:26:27   So they couldn't have even gotten,

00:26:29   they couldn't even keep the protocol

00:26:31   that they shipped with themselves,

00:26:33   let alone make it an open standard.

00:26:35   And there are so, it's, the whole area is so patent encumbered

00:26:40   that it just, that it's more or less

00:26:42   why they've given up on it.

00:26:44   I mean, who knows?

00:26:45   Maybe someday they will submit it.

00:26:47   They'll have it in shape to do.

00:26:48   But in terms of it's been four or five years

00:26:52   and it hasn't happened, it's because when Steve Jobs

00:26:55   announced it, it just was not vetted by engineering

00:26:59   or vetted by legal declaration.

00:27:01   It was Jobs saying we're gonna make it an open standard

00:27:05   Tim Cook is not that type of CEO.

00:27:08   Like if they say they're going to open source health,

00:27:11   or not health kit, but research kit,

00:27:15   they're gonna open source it.

00:27:16   And I would guess that the research kit team

00:27:21   knew that plan all along and has been right.

00:27:24   I don't know, I don't know anybody,

00:27:26   I have no sources on the research kit team.

00:27:28   So there could be people in Cupertino

00:27:30   listening to this podcast going,

00:27:31   oh God, you're so wrong, we're fucked.

00:27:33   I don't know.

00:27:34   We found out the same time you did.

00:27:37   But my guess is though that they knew this all along and that they've written it.

00:27:41   Because it is true. This is very true.

00:27:43   It is really hard to open source any significant code base that was not intended to be open source from the get-go.

00:27:51   It's just, I talk to any programmer, it's just axiomatic.

00:27:55   Yeah, and I'm not a programmer, so this is essentially because it's interwoven with stuff that you don't want to open source, right?

00:28:02   Yeah, and you know, it's almost like designing a space like a building like if you you know a space

00:28:08   That's meant for the public to come in is different than a space that you is not meant for the public to come in just you

00:28:13   Know in terms of where you put the doors where you put locks what's you know bolted down?

00:28:18   And yeah, and like what libraries you use what dependencies you have?

00:28:22   You know, it's yeah, so my guess is that this will be open source right on schedule with no hitches

00:28:28   Yeah

00:28:30   Well, the schedule thing will be interesting, but I don't think it will be a year's delay

00:28:34   or nobody's ever going to talk about it again like FaceTime.

00:28:38   It doesn't make sense.

00:28:40   What they're trying to do only actually makes sense if other people have access to it.

00:28:46   Not what they're trying to do, but the spirit in which they're trying to do it.

00:28:49   So if they're trying to say, "We are genuinely interested in improving the quality and quantity

00:28:55   of research in this arena, then the only way to really honor that is to say, it's not just

00:29:02   iPhone users.

00:29:03   We're going to open source it so anybody can access this framework and do these things.

00:29:08   It's just work we felt we needed to do.

00:29:10   And Cook said something essentially reiterating his "we don't pay attention to the ROI"

00:29:17   statements at the recent shareholders meeting.

00:29:19   He said something about ResearchKit and some other efforts they did as far as diversity

00:29:24   stuff. I think it is genuinely a thing. Sure, it's good PR for them, right? Obviously. But

00:29:31   it also is something where I think they saw an opportunity that they could execute on

00:29:36   this because they were already doing stuff in that space and it would benefit them, for

00:29:40   sure, but it would also benefit the public at large and why not? At this point, they

00:29:46   have the resources and money to spend on these things and it just seems like Cook is more

00:29:50   willing to say, "Okay, you people do this. You take this chunk of resources and do this."

00:29:57   Yeah, I agree. I think that it doesn't mean you have to be any less cynical about Apple as a

00:30:03   for-profit corporation, but that it's true. Some of the stuff they do is not about the ROI. I know

00:30:09   that I didn't see anything about the shareholders meeting yesterday, but I know he repeated that

00:30:15   again a week or two ago when he was in Europe and I think it was when he was in London and somebody,

00:30:21   you know, he took questions from store employees and there was press there and somebody asked about

00:30:25   accessibility and whether the watch was going to be accessible and he just said it will be

00:30:31   and that they take it seriously and it's just one of those things where they don't measure the ROI.

00:30:35   They don't measure whether they sell enough iPhones to vision impaired people to justify

00:30:43   the cost of the engineering of making everything accessible to they don't even

00:30:47   measure because it's just the right thing to do and clearly they can do it

00:30:50   and still be very profitable it's just the right thing to do and I believe that

00:30:54   I truly believe that they don't measure the ROI on stuff like that yeah and and

00:31:00   he said that this at this shareholders meeting I guess he said Apple didn't do

00:31:05   this for the ROI in reference to research kit this just isn't the lens

00:31:09   Apple uses. That was the phrase that he used. And of course we got, as a news organization,

00:31:16   we get pitches from everybody immediately after following this. So we get pitches from

00:31:21   these people that are either shareholder interest people or conservative organizations or capitalist

00:31:29   advocates and stuff. We get all these pitches immediately afterwards. And so they're like,

00:31:32   "Oh, we were very disappointed with Tim Cook denigrating capitalism." And all this stuff.

00:31:36   It's actually pretty amazing how vociferous people get when he says this.

00:31:41   I mean, it's a small statement, but it is very tricky to say that and very tricky to

00:31:46   say it about the right things because his job is to maximize investor return as an overall

00:31:52   CEO.

00:31:53   So it's a powerful statement, more powerful than I think people give it credit for.

00:31:58   I would actually, that's actually a like 80s going forward thing and it's actually not

00:32:08   the job of the CEO.

00:32:10   There is, like it's, people say that.

00:32:12   It's become like part of the, there's a lot of people who put it in those terms that the

00:32:20   job of the CEO is to maximize investor returns and it's actually not true.

00:32:23   You can't, there is no legal definition that says that.

00:32:26   the CEO does answer to the shareholders, and the shareholders do have a reasonable expectation

00:32:30   that the company will be managed in a way that doesn't devalue the company. But that is,

00:32:38   it's sort of an 80s going forward justification for the sort of logic that leads to the quarter

00:32:45   by quarter, you know, to do whatever it takes. That's actually, traditionally is not really the

00:32:51   view of the CEO and I think Cook definitely has that old school like he's thinking every bit as

00:32:56   much about where Apple's going to be in 25-30 years as he is where they're going to be next quarter.

00:33:01   But anyway, long story short though, I think nobody, the thing that's different about Apple

00:33:06   is their, and again you can be completely cynical about their ruthless capitalism,

00:33:12   is their profit margins across the board, but by focusing and maintaining these unprecedented

00:33:20   30 to 35, 36, 37% profit margins

00:33:24   with average selling prices

00:33:28   that are way above the competition.

00:33:30   So they have higher margins

00:33:31   and higher average selling prices

00:33:33   for phones, for laptops, for desktops, for tablets.

00:33:37   - Definitely for the watches.

00:33:38   - And definitely for watches.

00:33:39   That's what allows them to do things on their periphery

00:33:44   that may not have an ROI.

00:33:46   You know, it's by focusing on and keeping these high profit margins and overall and

00:33:55   incredible amounts of profit. They don't have to do, you know, sweat the details on stuff like that.

00:34:00   Like, I don't think that they're reckless with their money at all. If anything, I think that

00:34:05   they're still relatively conservative, maybe even too conservative, you know, with their spending.

00:34:10   But that's how you become so insanely profitable is by being conservative with your spending.

00:34:16   What was it last year? I thought I thought and you know I don't mean I thought Tim Cook's too big

00:34:22   moments last year were when he his essay in business week where he came out as gay,

00:34:28   which was I thought very eloquent and just perfectly timed and absolutely and his.

00:34:34   Downright angry response at last year's shareholder meeting again. We're talking

00:34:40   about return on investment with the conservative guy who was upset about their stance on global

00:34:48   warming and that they're spending billions of dollars on solar power for their data centers.

00:34:55   And now they've announced a new thing where they're spending billions of dollars on solar

00:34:59   power to power the campus. And he was upset about that. Like, why are you wasting – how can you

00:35:04   justify wasting shareholder money on this theory that the… Cook got angry.

00:35:13   Oh, no, he did. Yeah.

00:35:15   That's the only time I thought that you've ever seen in public, you've ever seen Tim Cook

00:35:20   off message ever. And not that he… I don't think he regrets it at all, but he really, he got angry.

00:35:25   Kind of scary.

00:35:28   Yeah, yeah, I know. I can even imagine.

00:35:33   Because he's such a calm, collected guy. It's so different when somebody's bombastic.

00:35:36   You kind of expect it from them.

00:35:38   But I think it was definitely a departure from the script and a departure from his...

00:35:42   His demeanor cracked a little bit. And not necessarily in a bad way, but just in a, you know, very human way.

00:35:47   You know, he felt very passionately about that subject.

00:35:50   And I think that there's...

00:35:52   The cynicism, as you mentioned, it's good...

00:35:54   As a journalist, it's helpful to have a general overall skepticism.

00:36:00   But I think that the cynicism towards technology and larger companies like Apple especially,

00:36:06   because of the enormous amounts of power that they wield, it has to be balanced.

00:36:12   And I think that these kinds of subjects where you're talking about a company like Apple

00:36:17   saying "We're going to do this regardless of return," there's a lot of instinctual desire

00:36:23   to paint that as a PR move or something like that. And I don't hang out with Tim Cook.

00:36:29   We don't play golf. I don't know. But it just doesn't feel... It feels organic. It doesn't

00:36:34   feel manufactured to me at all.

00:36:35   Yeah, I agree. I thought with the sweater, with the zip-up sweater that he had on, the

00:36:42   word that came to mind was avuncular.

00:36:44   Right.

00:36:45   He seems like he's sort of the company's uncle, you know, that everybody looks up to. And,

00:36:52   You know, he's not—their executive team is pretty much around the same age.

00:36:58   Everybody is sort of like 50 to 55.

00:37:00   It's not like he is older, but his hair is a little grayer than most.

00:37:05   And so it does.

00:37:06   He sort of has like—Elder Statesman makes him seem old.

00:37:10   It's not old, but there's sort of like—I don't know, and the sweater just sort of

00:37:15   emphasized it.

00:37:16   He's like the uncle that everybody looks up to.

00:37:19   I think there's a power for him in feeling like he's collected. He's comfortable in the power and the role that he's in.

00:37:33   I think a lot of times you see these CEOs who, obviously you and I both know over the past decade everybody has tried to replicate Apple's sort of,

00:37:41   "We're actually going to bring the company man out on stage and he's going to be convincing."

00:37:46   and they almost always fail, but you see a lot of these guys come out and it feels very much like, you know, I got coached for four weeks to deliver this speech, and I'm delivering it, but you don't really believe any of that.

00:38:01   but he's feeling more and more comfortable with the power that he wields and it seems

00:38:06   like it's one of those things where he comes out, he's in control, he has this presence

00:38:12   where you believe that he actually does have a handle on what's going on.

00:38:18   And Steve had that in a different way where you felt that the things he was saying reflected

00:38:22   his passions and his passions drove the company, whereas it seems like the things that Cook

00:38:27   is saying reflect the the passions of the people inside the company so it just seems like a little

00:38:32   bit of a different balance there i think the single most important aspect of tim cook's

00:38:38   leadership as ceo and his person that that what made him so suited to take over when he did

00:38:45   is that he truly seems completely secure with the fact that he is in no way steve jobs and

00:38:56   I think it's almost incredible. He's nowhere near, he's very good, he's very smart, he's doing a

00:39:04   great job. The company is incredibly successful so far under his leadership. But nobody is ever

00:39:11   going to doubt, nobody. I don't think, I mean, I think the way things will play out. In the history

00:39:16   of the industry, he will not be as famous or revered or as looked back upon 100 years from now

00:39:23   as Steve Jobs, right? Steve Jobs is Thomas Edison, you know, he's Henry Ford. He's,

00:39:28   you know, we're going to be talking about him for long after, you know, we're dead.

00:39:32   And he is totally secure in that. That doesn't bother him one bit. He understands it, he knows

00:39:39   it, and he's fine with it. It doesn't bother him at all. There's no part of his ego that is bothered

00:39:46   by that. And I think that is extraordinary. And I think it's a true, it's just remarkable. Because

00:39:53   I think that almost anybody else who would have taken over, it would have been inevitable that

00:39:57   it would eat at them.

00:39:59   Jared: Yep. Yep, I agree. It takes a lot of comfort to not put that, it wasn't even that

00:40:07   other people, because other people are going to compare and do compare Tim to Steve as far as

00:40:12   management style or success or whatever, but to not put that on yourself, I mean, that's an insane

00:40:17   thing. And I'm sure he thinks about it a lot, but it doesn't seem like he lets it get in his way.

00:40:21   You know, in some other universe where Steve either didn't get sick or beat it and stayed

00:40:27   ahead of it and had a full career and stayed at the helm as CEO until he was 70 years old,

00:40:34   and it was a planned and obvious transition and there was no tragedy involved, there still would

00:40:41   have had to have been somebody who followed Steve Jobs and it would have been hard. But it's so much

00:40:47   harder to do it like Tim Cook did in a way where everybody Cook included wishes it had

00:40:55   hadn't hadn't had to happen right it's just and I you know it's been you know what three years

00:41:03   yeah it's been like three three years three and almost you know coming up on three and a half years

00:41:07   it's you know it clearly feels like it's in the past tense that's you know when Steve was around

00:41:15   It feels like this is Tim's apple, but I still feel like we underestimate just what an extraordinary

00:41:22   position that thrust him into. Yeah, and in most transitions like this, there's a situation where

00:41:32   you have a clear-cut goal, like, "Oh, we need to fix this or fix that." And the hardest position

00:41:40   to come into as an incoming CEO is to not screw up something that's already incredibly

00:41:45   successful.

00:41:46   Right, exactly.

00:41:47   That's the worst one.

00:41:48   There's all kinds of other scenarios, but that's the worst.

00:41:51   Because you're the only thing you could do.

00:41:54   If you are the best person at your job ever, you're just going to get people going, "Okay,

00:42:00   good.

00:42:01   You didn't screw it up."

00:42:02   And if you're the worst, if you screw up even a little bit and things go downwards,

00:42:06   then you're the worst.

00:42:08   You're awful and you're horrible and everybody blames you so it's just the thing it was a thankless thing

00:42:13   And I think he's handled it pretty well. Yeah

00:42:15   I'm not saying I will do another break but

00:42:18   Jeff Williams first on stage appearance for research kit

00:42:23   Well, I should say I reword it. It was his first on stage appearance at a keynote and it was for research kit

00:42:31   I think that's noteworthy. I think that there is a sort of

00:42:36   implicit

00:42:38   You know, there's a whole page of what, a dozen plus senior executives at Apple that

00:42:45   they listed as their senior leadership.

00:42:46   But the ones who speak on stage, I think there's an implicit, you know, they're the A team.

00:42:52   Schiller, Federighi.

00:42:55   Johnny Ive is an exception, but he does all these videos.

00:43:00   And I think Jeff Williams getting elevated to that level is a sign that he's leveled

00:43:04   up within the company.

00:43:06   Yeah, there's a sort of line on the page, and I don't want to read too much into the

00:43:12   page layout, but there's a sort of line, and below it is Paul Deneve and Lisa Jackson and

00:43:17   Joe Padolini, and then above that, Jeff Williams is the last person above that line.

00:43:22   No, but above that, it's alphabetical order.

00:43:25   Right, right, exactly.

00:43:27   And I think that he's definitely part of that group.

00:43:29   Obviously, people like Luca won't be on the stage necessarily, because that's just not

00:43:34   Apple's thing.

00:43:35   You know, somebody like Dan, I could see making an appearance maybe at some point.

00:43:41   Johnny obviously chooses not to, as far as I've heard.

00:43:45   You know, Bruce is a GC, so he's not really, that's not his thing.

00:43:48   But amongst that other group, the only person that hasn't been on there that I think will

00:43:53   eventually would be Angela, right?

00:43:55   So I think that Jeff being in that group of people that presents is important.

00:44:00   And I also thought that Kevin Lynch coming out, and he did actually a really good job.

00:44:04   we'll talk about that. Yeah, I thought so too. But yeah, Bruce Sewell as the general counsel,

00:44:10   I think if anybody went to him as the lawyer and said like, "Hey, we want you to come out on stage

00:44:14   and speak publicly," he'd be like, "Fuck you." I would advise you not to. You just know that

00:44:20   that guy is a stone cold killer. He's a scary guy, you know? I think that I, as a, you know,

00:44:29   Spitball I predicted that maybe Angela aren'ts would appear on stage and then a lot of people wrote to me afterwards

00:44:35   I know what do you think she didn't know?

00:44:37   I think it's simple because they didn't have they didn't it was it my theory that maybe she would was tied to the idea that

00:44:44   They would talk about these the store retail changes that are coming

00:44:49   All they have was a table with a glass top

00:44:52   Yeah, she gonna go on there and introduce a table with a glass top. Yeah, I know so yeah, I agree

00:44:57   I think she would have been if they had some I think she will eventually

00:45:00   But I think that it would be in the context of retail

00:45:05   It's you know, it's no hurt. There's too many people who I think are reading into

00:45:10   her background and the fact that they're getting into watches and think that she's

00:45:15   Doing product marketing or product development on watch and stuff like that

00:45:20   Like no her job is to head retail and trust me her hands are full like that's more than enough work

00:45:25   For her to do so if she were to come on stage it would be to talk about

00:45:30   Retail it would not be to you know talk about watch features or something like that

00:45:34   Yeah, when I when she got hired

00:45:37   I did I finally published a piece that I've been like working out for months about it

00:45:41   just before the event and nobody promptly nobody read it because of the event obviously, but

00:45:45   When she got hired I kind of asked around and you know at Apple a little bit just people I knew and said so what?

00:45:51   you know, is she going to be involved in the watch? Because that's what a lot of people, as you said, a lot of people were assuming,

00:45:56   "Oh, they're not just hiring her for retail, they're hiring her to help develop the watch or work on that aspect of it."

00:46:03   And they said, "Don't overestimate the amount of involvement that retail would have in product development."

00:46:12   You know, she's not sending in on product feature roundtables, you know, necessarily.

00:46:18   And I know I don't know this for sure obviously this is just people giving me

00:46:22   General kind of hints of about how Apple works, so I just yeah

00:46:27   She's not she's in definitely involved in the retail side of things which I think there's plenty of work to do there

00:46:31   Yeah, I say this not to be dismissive as to her skills and abilities and taste

00:46:36   I say this only knowing that being in charge of retail for the

00:46:41   most profitable per square foot retailer in the world who is

00:46:47   expanding at a very

00:46:49   consistent not you know, not overly aggressive not reckless but expanding and

00:46:54   expanding in places as

00:46:57   Politically delicate as China. It's

00:46:59   More than enough work. It's a ton of work

00:47:02   I'm sure that she is working her ass off every day and that just on the retail alone

00:47:06   But I think that you know when if and when we see her on stage, it'll be in that context

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00:49:19   before use that code and you'll save a couple bucks and the starter kit is only

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00:49:37   So my thanks to Harry's I actually use their stuff. It's great, right?

00:49:41   Yeah, it's pretty solid. I mean I tried it on kind of a whim

00:49:45   I first heard about them and I've been using them ever since it took me a while to use the angle of the blades

00:49:50   It's like really flat in comparison to like a Gillette turbo whatever, you know with the 18 blades on it

00:49:56   That strips your skin from your flesh. Yeah, I think I know what you mean

00:49:59   I do know what you mean where it is sort of more of a yeah

00:50:02   it's like a, yeah, like a flat, yeah, flat's a good way to put it.

00:50:05   Jared

00:50:09   So after Jeff Williams and research kit,

00:50:12   it was the new MacBook.

00:50:16   And at this point, to me,

00:50:19   to me, it's almost like it was like two events,

00:50:21   because this to me was just pure Apple, right?

00:50:25   And it's like, and Schiller does this stuff great.

00:50:28   I know there's some people who think that he is,

00:50:30   I don't know what people say.

00:50:32   So people, some people think he's a little like,

00:50:35   not flat, but that he's unenthusiastic on stage.

00:50:39   I think that he's got this stuff down so cold.

00:50:43   He's so good.

00:50:44   I think he's their best presenter by far.

00:50:46   And he does it.

00:50:48   - Yeah.

00:50:49   - He just knows how to do it.

00:50:51   And it was just such a typical Apple product introduction.

00:50:54   I thought it was really good.

00:50:56   And I think--

00:50:57   - I think he understands the stuff, right?

00:50:59   - Yeah, definitely.

00:50:59   - So I think that's the difference between a presenter

00:51:02   and somebody who goes out there and happens to present this thing that they've been working

00:51:06   on. And obviously he doesn't do hardware, he's marketing, but still he understands holistically

00:51:12   what makes it special and he's trying to really just tell you why. That's the feel that you

00:51:17   get I think when he goes on stage.

00:51:18   But I think it's genuine. And I've said before, that's how product marketing works at Apple.

00:51:25   It's not like somebody like Johnny Ive's team comes up with the design and they work out

00:51:29   the engineering and then they make it and then they come to Schiller's team and say

00:51:33   here, here's the new MacBook, figure out a way to sell it. Like Schiller and his team

00:51:37   are involved right from the get go in terms of the product development. Like they're involved

00:51:42   at the beginning, like it's, it's not here's the thing, figure out a way to sell it. It's

00:51:48   what should the thing be? And then all we have to do is tell people what it is. And

00:51:53   why, like I said, and why.

00:51:54   Right. And I mean, it's typified by this section where they spent like 3-4 minutes talking about keyboard switches, right?

00:52:03   Yeah.

00:52:04   Like you tell any other marketing head, "Hey, we changed the keyboard switches in this. It took us like two years to research it and build these, or however long, and research it and build these keyboard switches."

00:52:13   They're like, "Yeah, okay, I'll see if I can sneak it in." You know? But no, he knows why. He knows the amount of effort they spent on it, and he knows why it's so important.

00:52:22   and also knows that when apple announces something like this it actually

00:52:27   he has to impress upon people that they really

00:52:30   really thought about it statement and there's no other way it is to say we

00:52:33   really thought hard about it they made like a hollywood caliber slowed slow mo

00:52:38   video showing how the keys work in action

00:52:41   it's yes it i'm i guarantee they shot that with a phantom

00:52:45   right with one of those yeah twenty thousand frames per second

00:52:49   you know cameras

00:52:51   I definitely think they might have.

00:52:55   What do you think about the MacBook?

00:52:56   I mean, overall impressions is pretty good.

00:52:58   And I dinked around with it at the event a little bit afterwards.

00:53:01   But I think that on stage, when I was watching it,

00:53:04   I started mentally tallying the amount of major inventions

00:53:08   that went into the one device.

00:53:10   Because usually with Apple, there will be a lot of refinements

00:53:14   and a lot of iterative changes that they make to something.

00:53:16   And of course, each one of those involves experimentation, maybe

00:53:20   invention and that kind of thing. But the Macbook especially this time around, there

00:53:24   were like five major inventions that, you know, things that had to be created, not just

00:53:31   bought and/or licensed and applied, but actually created to make this thing work.

00:53:37   Alright, well let's list them. Okay.

00:53:39   Okay. So, you've got the batteries, right? The change in batteries. We'll just do an

00:53:45   overview so change of batteries touch pad

00:53:47   uh... the

00:53:49   uh... screen

00:53:50   right was a change in the screen

00:53:52   the keyboard switches

00:53:54   uh...

00:53:55   and then the

00:53:57   well i guess usbc is really under adoption right 'cause they're adopting a

00:54:00   standard well here's i'm not that that i have

00:54:04   heard i keep you know

00:54:05   can't say who that let's call them informed little birdies that usbc is an

00:54:10   apple invention

00:54:11   and that they gave it to the standard bodies.

00:54:14   And--

00:54:17   - That wouldn't surprise me too much.

00:54:17   - That the politics of such is that

00:54:20   they can't really say that.

00:54:21   They're not gonna come out in public and say that,

00:54:24   but that they did.

00:54:27   It is an Apple invention,

00:54:28   and they want it to become a standard.

00:54:30   You know, that's like the difference.

00:54:32   And you know, we can get into this,

00:54:34   it's a good question we should definitely come back to,

00:54:35   is are they gonna use USB-C instead of Lightning

00:54:39   on iOS devices or something?

00:54:41   But I feel like the difference is there are certain devices

00:54:44   and contexts where they want to have a proprietary port.

00:54:48   And there are other contexts where they want to have

00:54:51   an industry standard port.

00:54:54   They want your MacBook to be able to connect

00:54:57   to third party displays.

00:54:58   Sure, they want you to buy an Apple display,

00:55:00   but they know that it has to be able

00:55:03   to support third party displays.

00:55:05   They want you to be able to plug in a microphone

00:55:09   for podcasting into your MacBook.

00:55:12   And they're not gonna make microphones, right?

00:55:15   So they want it to be an open port.

00:55:17   But they also want it to be obviously thin

00:55:22   and they also want it to be upside downable.

00:55:26   I don't know what you would call it.

00:55:27   - Yeah, reversible. - Reversible.

00:55:28   - I guess, yeah.

00:55:30   - And so they, what I've heard is that it's pretty,

00:55:32   it's an Apple invention that was sort of developed

00:55:34   coincident alongside lightning and that they donated,

00:55:37   they gave to the standards bodies.

00:55:39   So 'cause they wanted to, you know, they want--

00:55:41   - Interesting.

00:55:42   - They want the industry standard to be thin enough

00:55:44   for their devices and they want it to be reversible.

00:55:47   - Right, I mean that makes some sense.

00:55:50   I mean the one thing that made me sad about it

00:55:55   is the apparent death of MagSafe, right?

00:55:58   - Yeah.

00:55:58   - As I had, I'm not gonna take credit for this,

00:56:00   a former Appler told me this, but he said that he felt

00:56:03   that the MagSafe was like the hallmark Apple invention

00:56:08   of the 2000s.

00:56:09   - Yeah.

00:56:09   - You know, and that it was a very Apple thing to do

00:56:13   and that, you know, I mean, you think about the amount

00:56:17   of time that they spent patenting that,

00:56:19   they patented it so hard, so hardcore

00:56:21   that people couldn't even make anything like it.

00:56:24   Like everybody else's had to be pretty awful in comparison.

00:56:27   - Yeah.

00:56:28   - And I think that there's a plus and a minus to that.

00:56:30   The minus is that I wish all computers had that

00:56:32   but they couldn't because Apple patented it.

00:56:35   But the plus is that it worked really well

00:56:37   on Apple computers, you know, which is what I primarily use

00:56:40   for like laptops and stuff.

00:56:41   But I'm pretty sad to see that go, I'm gonna be honest.

00:56:44   I'm kind of nostalgic for the MagSafe already.

00:56:46   - It's funny, and you know, we have to mention

00:56:48   that the Mark Gurman at 9to5Mac,

00:56:52   what was it, about six weeks ago?

00:56:53   When he came out with the, you know,

00:56:55   here's the next MacBook Air.

00:56:59   And, you know, they had commissioned an artist to do renderings based on what he was told.

00:57:06   And it was spot on.

00:57:07   Nailed it.

00:57:08   Right?

00:57:09   I mean, there was a little tiny details wrong, but I almost think it wasn't even...

00:57:14   I think it was just like a mistake on the artist part.

00:57:16   For example, the escape key was...

00:57:19   And the renderings was top right instead of top left, which made no sense at all.

00:57:23   Like, if there's room for the key period, why in the world would you move?

00:57:27   I think it was just a mistake on the artist part. I don't think that like it was a botched part of

00:57:31   the thing. I think the artist just wasn't thinking and put the escape key up there. Who cares?

00:57:36   But in terms of only having one USB-C port on the left and a microphone port on the right and

00:57:42   no other ports period that nailed it. Or not microphone, headphone jack.

00:57:47   Jared Ranerelle Yeah, it's a line in and out, by the way. So it is,

00:57:51   that is an audio in jack as well as a headphone jack.

00:57:54   Oh, interesting. And in reaction to that, the conventional wisdom, the general consensus was,

00:58:03   "Well, how can you do that? How can you get rid of MagSafe? You can't get rid of MagSafe. MagSafe is

00:58:08   awesome. And it doesn't make any… So therefore, this can't be true. This has to be a mistake."

00:58:13   I think a lot of times you just… You have to realize in the name of progress, Apple's answer is

00:58:20   tough. Right? Because we spent we spent millions of dollars developing this and we're going to

00:58:25   kill it just because it's not necessary. And it's always, you know, it's to me, it's a good sign

00:58:32   that I don't want to buy this laptop. I mean, I mean, I'll just say flat out, I do not want this

00:58:37   machine right now. But I like it as a statement as to where things are going. And I definitely can

00:58:44   can imagine buying a laptop, a new MacBook in its image next time I buy one in a couple

00:58:51   of years.

00:58:52   But I'm reminded of every time Apple has dropped something like this, like with the original

00:58:57   iMac dropping everything except USB.

00:59:00   And people said, "Well, it's not going to work with any of my existing peripherals.

00:59:04   None of my peripherals will work.

00:59:06   None of my mice or keyboards or hard drives are going to work."

00:59:09   And the answer is tough.

00:59:10   You know and when they drop the optical when they drop the optical drive with the first

00:59:16   Mac book air and I think that's the real comparison is to the first Mac book air people like well

00:59:21   it's not going to play any DVDs. It's not how am I going to install the OS OS updates

00:59:27   come on DVDs and the answer was tough. You know we'll figure it out. Yeah, yeah, we'll

00:59:33   figure out at some point it's I joked on Twitter that it's like you know they're there the

00:59:39   the apple outrage cycle is essentially apple predicts the future, executes it a little

00:59:44   bit, you could even use the phrase "a little bit too early" right? Or a little bit earlier

00:59:49   than the rest of the industry is really what that means. And then everybody gets pissed

00:59:52   and then eventually it's the standard. And I think that Jason Snell wrote a review of

00:59:57   the original Macbook, he linked it on twitter today, I was talking with Steven Sinofsky

01:00:01   on twitter about the whole original Macbook review that Jason wrote. And Jason chimed

01:00:06   in and he had referred to it, I guess a couple weeks ago. But it was essentially the same

01:00:11   thing. It was like, man, this is a big change and there's a lot of compromises and etc.

01:00:19   And it's all over again. It's the same concept. And yet, here we are with our heirs going,

01:00:25   "Oh, how could I ever live without my heir? My heir is just fine."

01:00:29   I remember too when German's report first came out with this. And most people are like,

01:00:34   there's no way they're gonna drop magsafe because magsafe is awesome and

01:00:37   useful and then there were others the people who were ends up were right who

01:00:41   said well

01:00:43   uh... ipad doesn't have

01:00:45   magsafe

01:00:48   yeah

01:00:50   the ideal i don't buy that though i that that to me is a strong and because the

01:00:53   ipad is not used anywhere near like an el and a laptop is used

01:00:57   and some people are we are already telling me

01:00:59   you know i'd diver would have a really tough hard time buying this laptop

01:01:03   because I have small children.

01:01:05   And they run by my desk and kick the wire and everything.

01:01:08   And I totally agree with that.

01:01:09   And not only that, remember this thing is light.

01:01:11   It's super light.

01:01:12   So if you kick that cord and there's any resistance,

01:01:14   it's gonna go flying.

01:01:15   And yeah, there's no moving parts anymore,

01:01:17   so theoretically speaking, it's gonna be better off

01:01:20   than a hard drive, but still, that kinda sucks.

01:01:24   And I wish that they would've found a way

01:01:25   to maybe integrate MagSafe into their USB-C.

01:01:29   In other words, there's a general USB-C,

01:01:31   You can plug a USB-C cable into this without the MagSafe, but ours has this really cool,

01:01:36   you know, polarized magnet that auto centers and clicks in.

01:01:40   Yeah, my thought was maybe they would put it on the adapter, you know, that the wall,

01:01:45   you know, the thing that you plug in the wall.

01:01:46   Oh, yeah.

01:01:47   Interesting.

01:01:48   But they didn't, you know, it's not.

01:01:49   It is, you know, as far as I can tell, it is the case now that it's back to where we

01:01:54   were, where if somebody kicks your cable, trips over your cable while it's connected,

01:02:00   the MacBook is gonna go.

01:02:02   - Right.

01:02:03   - So that is-- - Yeah, I don't know.

01:02:05   AppleCare Plus, I guess.

01:02:06   - I guess, you know, I guess, you know,

01:02:08   I do think, I honestly think that that's

01:02:10   probably more than anything.

01:02:13   I mean, there's a performance angle too,

01:02:14   where clearly performance-wise, this is not a MacBook Pro.

01:02:17   I mean, so if you're doing serious performance,

01:02:22   you know, heavy stuff, compiling stuff with Xcode

01:02:25   or something, or doing, you know, video editing,

01:02:28   or anything that might strain your computer.

01:02:30   No, you probably still want a MacBook Pro,

01:02:33   but in terms of, clearly this is positioned

01:02:36   more against the errors than the pros.

01:02:38   Not price-wise, but in terms of use case scenario.

01:02:41   I would say the number one, which one should you get,

01:02:44   question is, how often do you use your laptop

01:02:48   while it's plugged in?

01:02:50   'Cause I do think, I think the comparison

01:02:53   to an iPad is apt, I think that's why they've done it.

01:02:56   Oh, I see what you're saying with that.

01:02:58   Yeah, and I get it.

01:03:00   Their answer to why isn't there magsafe on this,

01:03:02   and I'm not putting words in their mouth,

01:03:04   but the general answer would seem to me

01:03:06   is you don't plug this thing in.

01:03:07   - Right. - Right, you don't use

01:03:08   it plugged in. - So let's say

01:03:09   you're a college student, and you don't even take

01:03:12   your adapter with you, you keep it in your dorm room,

01:03:14   and in the morning, you leave your dorm room

01:03:17   with a fully charged MacBook Air,

01:03:19   and you don't plug it in again until you come back

01:03:23   from classes at the end of the afternoon.

01:03:25   Doesn't matter, right?

01:03:26   And I think there's a lot of people who use them in that context.

01:03:29   I know in our context though, like the, you know, with the MacBook Air as the sort of

01:03:34   default reporter's laptop, I mean, it's not even sort of.

01:03:40   I mean, it's infamous now.

01:03:42   No, it is.

01:03:43   Yeah, because even, you know, people even take pictures at like Microsoft events and

01:03:46   you take a look at the press and it's all these Apple logos lit up.

01:03:51   there are you know we need plugs though because we're using them so so much you

01:03:59   know we are yeah you're using the the wireless network which is typically

01:04:02   crushed and so it's harder for the radio the word radio is working harder I will

01:04:07   say this though battery wise I could tell you when it changed for me this

01:04:12   latest the latest MacBook that I have is a 2013 model and that MacBook changed

01:04:20   everything for me, the air, as far as battery goes, I don't really plug in or worry about

01:04:25   plugs at events anymore. As I remember, I was covering WWDC in 2012, or maybe 2013,

01:04:32   I can't remember, but anyhow, it was like a 2011 MacBook, right? And I knew for a fact

01:04:37   that that thing was not going to last all the way through, and I was covering it at

01:04:41   a time when I wasn't invited to any Apple events, so I just got in line with everybody

01:04:45   else and you know covered it from the crowd from way back in the crowd or whatever and

01:04:50   did a whole live blog thing and my battery ran out with about 10 minutes left.

01:04:55   It was the one where they were doing maps.

01:04:58   It was the one where they're introducing Apple Maps and my battery ran out right before

01:05:01   I started using Apple Maps.

01:05:03   So I had to blog the rest of it from my phone.

01:05:05   I mean it was essentially a nightmare scenario.

01:05:07   It was a WWDC right?

01:05:08   It was a forced stall introduction.

01:05:13   Exactly yeah.

01:05:14   my battery just went boop and I knew it was going obviously and there was no plugs because they only

01:05:18   provide plugs for the reporters in their special you know section up front and so they don't

01:05:23   provide plugs for anybody else because they're supposed to be sitting there watching and maybe

01:05:26   I've never got a plug. That's news to me that there's plugs up front. I don't know.

01:05:31   Yeah there are plugs up there you gotta fight for them everybody jostles for them. But yeah I

01:05:38   remember getting the new one and from that point on I am no longer worried about it and that's it

01:05:44   And as you mentioned, that's an intense scenario, right?

01:05:47   Hardcore wireless network, you're posting pictures, you're downloading stuff, maybe

01:05:51   even tethering, and so your phone is charging off of your laptop, all of this stuff.

01:05:56   And never have I had a problem.

01:05:58   I think that it was a significant difference.

01:06:00   So that means with this new one, we're taking a step back a little bit power-wise, but battery-wise,

01:06:07   I think we actually may be in the same ballpark.

01:06:10   So it may be one of those scenarios where you can get through events and things and

01:06:13   your day even without having to play.

01:06:16   Maybe that's the philosophy.

01:06:17   Yeah, I'm with you there.

01:06:19   My laptop for years was a March 2011 11-inch Air.

01:06:24   I've said this on the show many times.

01:06:25   It was the last Air before the 11-inch got the light-up keyboard.

01:06:29   So I had the last 11-inch Air that had a not-lit-up keyboard.

01:06:34   And it was great.

01:06:35   It was so light and portable.

01:06:37   But you know, the battery life was sort of a struggle on days like a WWD.

01:06:42   And I don't even use it during the keynotes.

01:06:44   I don't even do live blogging during the keynotes.

01:06:46   But just, you know, trying to follow along with the news, read all the stuff after the

01:06:52   event and, like you said, I think that the fact that the cellular and Wi-Fi networks

01:06:57   are always, you know, under an avalanche makes the antenna struggle.

01:07:03   But the big thing for me was always to get through a day like that, I would turn to brightness

01:07:06   all the way down as low as I could still read it.

01:07:11   It was the display.

01:07:12   Yeah, and you're craning towards the screen.

01:07:13   Yeah, and so last year, late in the year, I bought, sadly, now one generation behind

01:07:19   the 13-inch MacBook Pro instead of an Air, because I was sick of the-- I don't care about

01:07:24   the weight.

01:07:25   I just wanted a better machine.

01:07:26   And I have to say, I'm with you, the battery life now.

01:07:29   I don't know that I've ever even gone into the red.

01:07:31   I don't think I've even gone to 20%.

01:07:35   It's easy to go through.

01:07:36   Very rarely.

01:07:37   I mean, the only time it happens is because I think I overestimate how far I can take

01:07:43   it.

01:07:44   I won't charge it for two or three days or something like that.

01:07:46   I'll be like, "Oh, it's low."

01:07:47   But yeah, very, very rarely do I ever run up against them anymore.

01:07:50   I think they finally cross that threshold.

01:07:54   It's not sad, but the funny thing about this is that we all complain about battery life

01:07:59   until it's good enough and then everybody just stops talking about it.

01:08:03   never really know when that threshold was crossed you kind of have to think back like when did I stop

01:08:08   complaining you know and I think that that's that's it we crossed that Rubicon with this

01:08:14   like 2013 era yeah and one of the things about the new MacBook that really stood out to me was

01:08:19   when Schiller said that with the new screen technology that it's a 30% reduction in power draw

01:08:25   for the same brightness level um that's huge that's a huge step up and like I said the number one

01:08:31   thing that I used to do first thing I did to if I knew I was going to have a stressful day on the

01:08:36   battery was turn the brightness down you know the screen is still and it's you know it's true for

01:08:40   phones it's true for everything screens are huge power draws and going retina only you know across

01:08:48   the board only makes it worse because you know it's it's not just the dimensions the size it's

01:08:54   the number of pixels. Sure. So a 30% reduction in power draw for the display to me, like you said,

01:09:02   and listing your five, I think your five inventions are all spot on. It's essential.

01:09:06   There's no way they could do this MacBook without that. Because it would only be because you're

01:09:12   talking about six hours of battery life. And that's, that's like a spec from 10 years ago,

01:09:15   you know, you can't do six hours battery life. And I think it may, I mean, I don't know if it is,

01:09:21   but it seems like it's Ixo to me and I think that's where they got their reduction.

01:09:25   I haven't done any research into whether it is or not so please don't kill me if it's not, but

01:09:29   I think that it might be an Ixo display, which obviously the biggest pro to those is battery life.

01:09:37   And the fact that they had to do all of this really really fancy dancing with the battery

01:09:43   and the size of the logic board to fit more battery and etc etc, and then get a screen with 30% less battery

01:09:49   battery says a lot about the crappy nature of battery technology as it stands right now.

01:09:55   So they're still, I like to call it their stop gaps, right?

01:10:02   So the increase in efficiency of a processor, increase in power efficiency of the screen,

01:10:08   massive amount more battery inside due to the smaller logic board and this fancy layering

01:10:13   technology.

01:10:14   is just compensating for the fact that the physical limitations of battery

01:10:19   chemistry are everybody's running up against the apple including eyes totally

01:10:23   look to me like the new logic board was about the size of an iPhone this is

01:10:28   crazy I actually saw an article today somebody did some math I can't remember

01:10:32   where it was digit times or something but you know somebody did them did the

01:10:36   math on the size of the logic board is actually smaller surface area wise than

01:10:40   a raspberry pie, like the original Raspberry Pi.

01:10:43   That's crazy.

01:10:44   Which I thought was interesting.

01:10:47   It'll be interesting to see whether this is something that competition can copy or not.

01:10:56   You know, in terms of – you know, and I've been meaning to write an article that would

01:11:01   – I went to the working headline, Apple Semiconductor.

01:11:05   You know, that it – if as a consumer you don't need to worry about it, but if someone

01:11:10   follows the industry, you really have to look at Apple now as one of the leading semiconductor

01:11:15   companies, if not the leading semiconductor company in the world, right there with Intel,

01:11:20   Qualcomm, Samsung, whoever else. And mostly, though, that's been in the context of iOS devices

01:11:28   and the watch, right? With the S1, where you've got A5 caliber performance supposedly on this

01:11:35   tiny thing on your wrist and with the

01:11:39   you know the a series systems on a chip for the ios devices but now

01:11:43   i that's one of the things that struck me about this device

01:11:46   is maybe i don't know enough about the industry but maybe this logic board

01:11:50   reduction is something that is every bit as cutting edge

01:11:55   uh engineering wise as the ios systems on a chip

01:11:59   yeah i don't know anything i mean not anything but i don't know enough about

01:12:03   it either to make that judgment so i don't want to blow it on the

01:12:05   out of proportion or anything but it seems

01:12:07   and that's a pretty distinct if you've ever seen a logic board in another

01:12:11   macbook it's

01:12:12   you know it's double size i mean it's pretty big so there they have a uh...

01:12:15   almost double size

01:12:16   so they have uh...

01:12:18   uh... they put a lot of effort into increasing the density of that board

01:12:22   uh... in order to fit more battery in there and it very well could be something

01:12:25   really really fancy they did there. One of the little things i noticed

01:12:29   i haven't seen a lot of people talking about it but i'm curious about it really

01:12:32   curious and I know you were very very kind to me and you were welcoming my

01:12:37   questions I texted you questions if you could ask people you know Apple reps

01:12:41   yeah it's not like I was busy or anything live blogging John it's no

01:12:45   problem it's always the case though even when I'm at the event always inevitably

01:12:52   the moment I step foot past the threshold where I could go back and ask

01:12:58   another question always come up with my best question sure and that was exactly

01:13:03   it was like I don't know like two hours after the event was over it popped into

01:13:07   my head why did they put the word MacBook on the front of the glass of the

01:13:11   display again that is actually a really good question I love it why didn't you

01:13:17   ask me that earlier but I can I love that my new you know this MacBook Pro

01:13:23   doesn't say anything like an iPhone like the way that your iPhone does not say

01:13:27   iPhone in front of it. I don't understand why they put the word MacBook there. I wish

01:13:33   I could ask.

01:13:34   I actually didn't even, I didn't even think about that until now. It seems kind of gauche,

01:13:39   doesn't it?

01:13:40   Yeah. Yeah, it seems, you know.

01:13:42   Like of course it's a MacBook. I know what I'm using.

01:13:44   Exactly.

01:13:45   I think that that's why they never had it on the front of the iPhone, right?

01:13:47   Right.

01:13:48   And I, early on, I made fun of other phones like, you know, the Motorola, Droid, Max,

01:13:55   razor whatever for like

01:13:56   pasting the logo several times on the front and back of the phone

01:13:59   it's like that we got it we bought it like we're we're you're to get our money

01:14:03   where you

01:14:04   i've always been screaming in my face i don't think i've always thought it was

01:14:07   so curious that all the things that

01:14:10   competitors copy about and

01:14:13   it's like let's take samsung in particular all the ways that samsung

01:14:16   has copied apple designs one thing they could copy

01:14:21   and could not be held accountable for it would be to copy the logo-less front face, and they

01:14:27   can't bring themselves to do it. They have to print, they're compelled to print the ugly

01:14:33   Samsung logo on every phone they make. Even though if they wanted to, clearly, you can't

01:14:38   copyright not putting a logo on the front face. So they could make a plain black or

01:14:42   plain white face that would look more like an iPhone, but they can't bring themselves

01:14:45   to do it.

01:14:46   I would just imagine a design review meeting where some designer in their laboratory has

01:14:53   gone through and said, "Oh man, this is a great piece of Apple design here, not putting

01:14:59   it on the front," and they remove it and everything. And at the very last second before it goes

01:15:03   to production, some exec walks by and says, "Why is there no Samsung logo on the front

01:15:08   of this? Please put a Samsung logo on the front of this." And then the engineer just

01:15:11   slumps into feet.

01:15:12   And make it big.

01:15:13   Yeah, make it big. Make it reflective. Make it metallic. Because they are always metallic.

01:15:18   Like, you look at the front of the phone and you move it back and forth and it shines in your eyes, you're like, "Really? Come on now."

01:15:24   But yeah, I don't know. I don't know why it's on there. I don't. And you notice, I don't know if you noticed this or took note of it, but the logo is no longer backlit.

01:15:34   Right? So it's a polished logo on the back of the MacBook.

01:15:37   I thought about that just when I said a few minutes ago that at a Microsoft event you

01:15:42   look and you see all these lit up Apple logos.

01:15:45   I think it's probably just a thinness issue.

01:15:49   I think that there's just...

01:15:52   Maybe even power.

01:15:53   Yeah, maybe.

01:15:54   But yeah, thinness I think is probably it.

01:15:56   I mean that thing is really, really thin.

01:15:59   When you look at it in person.

01:16:01   Pictures always make things look thicker.

01:16:03   watch but we'll talk about that but the the the lead is really really thin and

01:16:08   they had to layer that screen precisely to get it in there I just think it's a

01:16:12   thickness thing and the other thing it's kind of sad but a little bit but I'm not

01:16:16   surprised I've sort of been thinking that they were heading that direction

01:16:19   ever ever since the iPad shipped without a light-up logo ever since I've always

01:16:24   thought it's you know it's got to be coming other thing I noticed is that the

01:16:29   keyboard uses the san francisco as the key cap font instead of bag rounded

01:16:35   which they've been using all i guess i think that i'm not i'm not a huge i'm

01:16:38   not semi partner but i'm not a huge one so i didn't notice that i've never

01:16:41   really cared for backgrounded as the key cap on some uh... delighted by that

01:16:46   change

01:16:48   now what was it that you didn't like about it out of curiosity

01:16:51   it looks ok the capital letters look ok to me but they don't look great but the

01:16:56   The lowercase ones to me are just gross, like shift, you know, everything's written in lowercase,

01:17:01   tab, caps lock, shift, control.

01:17:04   And it's just like a, it looks childlike to me.

01:17:08   To me it's a childlike, childish font.

01:17:11   It just doesn't look serious enough.

01:17:12   So you think San Francisco is a little stronger?

01:17:15   Oh, I definitely think so.

01:17:17   And I think it's really, to me, the whole reason they're using it on a watch is that

01:17:22   it looks to me like a hardware font. It looks like the type of typeface you would use to stamp,

01:17:30   you know, the stuff on the back of a watch case, which is exactly the font they're using to stamp,

01:17:36   you know, stainless steel, 42 millimeters, etc. on the back. It looks like a hardware font. It

01:17:42   looks like something that you would stamp in the metal. And so it looks good to me. I haven't seen

01:17:46   it in person, obviously, but it looks to me like a natural fit for hardware, like the key caps on a

01:17:51   keyboard

01:17:53   interesting just has a certain it it it has a certain seriousness to it

01:17:59   yeah

01:18:01   one thing about the the watch stuff a lot of it like the companion app

01:18:05   and uh... the fonts on the watch face

01:18:07   is like a mixture of stuff they're using and sometimes the mixture is really

01:18:10   awkward

01:18:11   like the companion app acts like

01:18:13   two or three different fonts on the the pairing screen

01:18:16   it's really weird

01:18:17   i don't know

01:18:18   it seems like an unusual

01:18:21   misstep or decision anyway.

01:18:24   And it may just be a visibility thing or a differentiation thing like this is

01:18:28   actionable, this is not actionable.

01:18:30   But it seems like an odd choice to use fonts for that rather than stroke

01:18:34   thickness or

01:18:35   an outline or something like that. But maybe they're just handicapped

01:18:39   by their decisions, their design decisions, and they have to kind of

01:18:42   make compromises in terms of

01:18:44   differentiation between buttons and not

01:18:47   uh...

01:18:48   let's take a break you have any more on the on the mac book before we take a

01:18:51   break

01:18:52   uh... no not really i mean the batteries i don't think that necessarily is like a

01:18:57   a world-shattering invention but i think it's a methodology that will be copied

01:19:01   if it can be

01:19:03   i p y i guess i because the last the last thing i guess we talk about and i've

01:19:06   been asked this so i guess i should answer it is why didn't why isn't this

01:19:09   called the mac book air

01:19:11   And I think it's simply because it's too expensive that MacBook Air is all once Mac, you know

01:19:16   they anything that's called MacBook Air has to be at the price points the MacBook Air is already at and

01:19:20   They're you know, so that's why they've kept it. That's why they've added it to the product lineup instead of replacing anything

01:19:26   But then clearly as you know within a year or two years it this will replace the MacBook

01:19:32   Air's in the lineup as the price comes down once they can make one of these for you know

01:19:37   899 or 999 the MacBook Airs will just go away. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I think it's just a stake in the ground

01:19:44   reserving that MacBook name for this

01:19:47   design of MacBook. Yeah, and I think the other angle too is in terms of a

01:19:52   Statement about the future that when the air debuted being so thin and light was

01:19:59   Remarkable and exceptional and I think Apple is saying now, of course, it's gonna be this crazy thin and light. That's the default

01:20:07   This it doesn't it doesn't even need to be called out in the name. This is just what a MacBook is and should be

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01:22:32   you'll save 15% my thanks to them so now we finally come to the watch I mean it's

01:22:43   we've been resisting talking about it essentially but

01:22:47   yeah it's interesting

01:22:49   what they chose to

01:22:52   say additionally

01:22:53   uh...

01:22:54   that they had said before

01:22:56   uh...

01:22:57   i mean apple pay was obviously a good time they mentioned apple pay

01:23:01   i guess let's start at the top of the announcement right so they they bring

01:23:04   out

01:23:05   uh... you know tim comes out and introduces

01:23:08   introduced

01:23:10   uh... kevin

01:23:11   right by uh...

01:23:12   - So he talked a bit. - Christy Turlington was first.

01:23:15   - Oh no, that's right, you're right.

01:23:16   Christy Turlington was first, yeah.

01:23:18   That's an interesting one.

01:23:19   What would you think of that?

01:23:20   - I thought it was good.

01:23:21   I saw that there was definitely some backlash

01:23:23   where people were like cynically saying,

01:23:26   why go to, why, more or less accusing Apple

01:23:30   of exploiting Africa in the name of selling

01:23:34   thousand dollar watches.

01:23:37   I completely disagree.

01:23:39   I think that there was no, I think it was a total natural

01:23:41   that they were gonna bring out somebody famous.

01:23:44   I mean, not that they had to, but it sounds,

01:23:46   you know, I'm sure, if it wasn't her in Africa,

01:23:50   it would've been somebody else here.

01:23:52   Like in some alternate universe,

01:23:53   there's some other celebrity or athlete, let's say,

01:23:56   who they brought out here and show them training

01:24:00   and exercising here in the United States.

01:24:04   And it's every bit as much about selling watches

01:24:08   as what they did, except that in this world

01:24:11   where they brought her out and raised attention

01:24:14   to her charity, I can't help but think that

01:24:18   that charity has made more money this week

01:24:21   than they would have made if Apple didn't feature them.

01:24:24   So in this world where Apple did this and shared

01:24:27   some of their attention with this charity,

01:24:30   that charity has raised more money

01:24:32   and the health and wellbeing of women in Africa

01:24:38   is better than it would have been otherwise.

01:24:39   So I don't see how you can complain about that.

01:24:43   - Right, I mean, I think that there's a definite contrast,

01:24:49   sharp contrast between wearing, say, a $1,000 watch,

01:24:54   'cause I think she was using the steel one.

01:24:55   - Yeah, it was not gold.

01:24:56   - And right, it wasn't, that would have been the worst,

01:25:01   wouldn't it? - Yeah.

01:25:01   - She's running through Africa with a $17,000 watch.

01:25:05   So, I mean, I think there was definitely a contrast, right?

01:25:08   But honestly, her running shoes

01:25:10   were probably several hundred dollars, right?

01:25:13   And anybody that goes to Africa on vacation

01:25:16   to a wildlife preserve, their money,

01:25:20   when they pay that money,

01:25:21   part of it goes to funding that wildlife preserve,

01:25:23   you know, when they go visit those things.

01:25:25   Like anybody that goes there and is doing that thing,

01:25:27   there's always gonna be a sharp contrast between, say,

01:25:30   the watch or sunglasses or expensive clothing

01:25:33   they're wearing and the unfortunate natural state of many of the people living in Africa

01:25:41   who need assistance or aid or whatever.

01:25:45   So there's always going to be a contrast.

01:25:47   It's always going to be a minefield.

01:25:49   So I get it that people were drawn to that dichotomy and I 100% think that it's a valid

01:25:57   point, but I think that your point in terms of they brought a person on stage who wasn't

01:26:02   just a face who literally was a mom, who started a foundation based on maternal wellness and

01:26:10   did all that stuff. I mean, that's fantastic. Like, why not? They could have had an athlete.

01:26:17   They could have had just somebody who makes millions of dollars and does nothing, right?

01:26:22   And I think that that was a good choice for them, regardless of whatever blowback they may take

01:26:26   because of the visual. I think that it was good.

01:26:29   I think it's almost and it's almost like a tacit acknowledgment that yes, there is you know, the the

01:26:35   Income levels around the world are wildly disparate. You know, it's

01:26:40   It's they're not hiding behind it. I mean, it's it's a tacit acknowledgement

01:26:45   So I I have to say I disagree with anybody who criticizes them for that. I think it's

01:26:49   It was only a good thing for the charity and I think it's a great cause

01:26:53   Yeah, and I saw somebody tweeting because there were plenty people are you why Chris Lee Turlington who cares water blog?

01:26:59   you know, etc, etc. And I saw somebody tweet on Twitter and I can't remember

01:27:04   who it is, so forgive me, but they were like, "Yeah, you can complain about

01:27:08   Chrissy Turlington when you have started a foundation which has raised, you know,

01:27:11   X amount of dollars for these things." Like seriously, you know, they

01:27:14   could have had anybody on there, any loser who wanted to wear an Apple

01:27:19   Watch and come on stage or film a promo, and instead they had somebody who'd

01:27:22   really done real good. And I think that you've got to acknowledge that.

01:27:26   Yeah, you know could have been you know Peyton Manning or something not you know, not even though, you know

01:27:30   No, no, I should see loser in flake at flippant terms

01:27:34   But yeah, they could have had somebody who was just just realized I really didn't mean to say I like Peyton Manning

01:27:40   I didn't mean it, but you know like that was brutal, but

01:27:43   Or you know like some athlete who was injured last year and you know used Apple watch to you know

01:27:49   Condition themselves coming back from a knee injury or something. I don't could have been anything

01:27:53   They could have had Pablo Sandoval out there.

01:27:57   "Oh, this is how I lost my weight again."

01:27:59   Sorry, Pablo.

01:28:01   I apologize.

01:28:03   But yeah, I think that it's an interesting choice, and in the end, I think it was a better

01:28:12   choice than it could have been in a lot of ways.

01:28:14   I thought there was an interesting moment up front when Tim was talking about digital

01:28:21   touch and as a communication feature with the doodles and the taps and the heartbeat.

01:28:27   And he said, "I hope somebody sends me one of those," which was, I thought, oddly personal.

01:28:33   It seemed as though he was saying, I don't know, I'm not quite sure how to interpret that. You

01:28:43   remember that? Tim Cook, looking for love. Yeah, he's looking for love. I don't know.

01:28:46   Right. Yeah, I think it was. I mean, I think it was a joke. And it fell firmly in the dad joke

01:28:52   range, right? Which is what we usually get on Apple Stages. And I thought that was, you know,

01:28:56   a good nod to that. Yeah, it was an interesting one. I remember. I remember that. That is

01:29:02   interesting. I don't know. I don't want to read too much into it, but I think it was just a good

01:29:06   joke. You know? But I do think that's an important part of the watch, though. I think it's very, very

01:29:14   I'm gonna say downright essential to its success. I really do think so. I think if those things

01:29:22   don't take off and people don't use them there might be in trouble. Yeah, I think that you know,

01:29:29   I wrote I wrote the thing about the Apple watch saving time, which I genuinely believe it's gonna

01:29:33   save a lot of time. But I acknowledge that spending $300 or $500 or whatever to save time

01:29:42   seem silly, but I think it may actually translate to improved human relationships.

01:29:49   So if I spend less time looking at my phone, I spend more time looking at my wife and kid, I'm going to feel good about that.

01:29:54   And I'm going to feel happy. Because you can't know until you get, I think this may come with age or it may come with if you get really busy at work

01:30:07   or you get really busy in your career or anything like that, you don't know the impact that extra time has.

01:30:15   You know, time with your family, time away from that has, until you lose it or don't have it.

01:30:19   And then when you don't have it, you would do anything to get it back.

01:30:23   And I think that that is going to be a very powerful thing, but I think along with that,

01:30:28   that interpersonal relationship, you know, with the taps and the constant communication,

01:30:32   the ability to literally reach out and touch your watch, which then figuratively touches the other person, which then literally touches the other person, right?

01:30:42   I think that that's an interesting translation, and it'll be neat to see how that develops over time, but we're not going to be able to tell until people actually do it.

01:30:51   So they can say it all they want, but we have to see whether or not that actually takes off.

01:30:55   takes off. Yeah, I talked about it on the debug podcast with Guy English and Renee Ritchie

01:31:04   and the other special guest was John Edwards who's a watchmaker and app developer. He's

01:31:10   got apps that are meant for people who are into watches. You can measure the accuracy

01:31:16   of your mechanical watch with his apps. Really, really smart guy. Knows a lot about the traditional

01:31:21   watch world. But on that show, I was talking about a thing that—it was actually my friend

01:31:26   Adam Lisagor, Lonely Sandwich on Twitter, the sandwich video guy. But we talked about

01:31:32   this at the Singleton Conference back in October, and he really opened my mind about this. His

01:31:37   thing was that he thinks everybody is just overlooking that Apple has invented the first

01:31:43   ever way to touch someone you're intimate with without being within arm's distance

01:31:49   of them and in fact you can be you know around the world and that's really

01:31:56   interesting maybe it'll turn out to be nothing I don't know but I think that

01:32:00   there's an enormous amount of potential there you know and I know that Apple

01:32:04   keeps using the words intimate and personal our most personal device ever

01:32:08   and you know it could just be marketing spin but I I don't know I honestly think

01:32:16   you know and like I said earlier I think Apple's product marketing usually is

01:32:20   really about the development of the product and then the advertising is just

01:32:25   telling you what they honestly think about it and so you know I think there's

01:32:30   a scenario where that's truly what they believe that this is intimate and that

01:32:36   you know being able to send your heartbeat to someone you have a crush on

01:32:41   you know or you know someone you've been married to for 10 15 years or whatever

01:32:46   or your kid is profound you know I I'm hesitant to to to brush this aside as a

01:32:58   gimmick the most intimate thing that I have remotely with like my wife for

01:33:05   instance, is our iMessage stream.

01:33:08   Right? Like that is our, that's our communication method.

01:33:12   We don't talk on the phone a whole lot unless we have

01:33:14   something explicit to say or we're driving.

01:33:16   You know, in our day to day, like a picture of my daughter

01:33:20   or a picture of where I am so she just knows I'm safe

01:33:24   and where I am 'cause I travel a lot for work.

01:33:26   That our iMessage stream is our intimate communication

01:33:30   window and I have an Android phone and I use that too

01:33:33   but she doesn't, so that doesn't become a conduit for us.

01:33:36   Although I assume it's very similar for an Android user.

01:33:39   Their text message inbox with their significant other

01:33:43   would be one of their most intimate streams

01:33:45   of communication back and forth.

01:33:47   But text messaging has this problem with emotional context.

01:33:52   It's very difficult to exhibit

01:33:54   or transmit emotional context in text messaging.

01:33:57   It's a constant problem, right?

01:34:00   And that's why kind of emoji was kind of took off and still obviously still on the rise.

01:34:06   I think people are very, very fond of it.

01:34:08   But I think that that--translating that into something that's tactile and visual on your wrist would be a very, very powerful thing.

01:34:18   And I'm anxious to see how that develops.

01:34:20   Yeah. So here's like a scenario I was thinking of.

01:34:22   So, like, my son desperately wants an Apple Watch, very, very much.

01:34:28   So it's a high expectation that he's going to get one for Christmas.

01:34:36   Like imagine me picking him up from school.

01:34:38   It's three o'clock and, you know, I just want to let him know, "Hey, I'm here," you know.

01:34:44   So one tap to communication, one tap to pick his thing, and then I give the phone a forced

01:34:50   tap.

01:34:51   click the button, one tap on the screen, one force touch, and then all of a sudden, he gets a tap on his wrist and looks down and it just shows that I sent it, you know, my name is there and it just shows that I sent him a tap.

01:35:02   And then he'll just know that it's like me saying, "Hey, I'm here." Like, I don't have to say I'm here, I don't have to send him any words, just tap. Here I am. I'm out back. Right?

01:35:12   - And the context says the rest.

01:35:14   - Yeah, the context is the rest

01:35:15   because he's on his way out the door at 301

01:35:18   after school's over.

01:35:19   Like he'll get it.

01:35:20   That's pretty interesting to me.

01:35:25   - Yeah.

01:35:26   This is essentially what the guys at Yo

01:35:30   were trying to sell people on.

01:35:32   - I said that on Twitter.

01:35:32   - Right, it's the context of the Yo.

01:35:34   - Yeah.

01:35:35   - Oh, you did, okay.

01:35:36   Maybe that's what I read.

01:35:37   But yeah, it is, right?

01:35:39   - Yeah. - I mean, that's the thing.

01:35:40   - Yeah, and I--

01:35:41   And so everybody made fun of yo, you know that right?

01:35:43   Like it became a big, funny thing,

01:35:45   'cause it's like, what is it?

01:35:47   - But I totally see it that way, you know?

01:35:51   And I feel like by being physical instead of verbal,

01:35:55   instead of a stream of ASCII characters

01:35:58   that display on a screen that you read,

01:36:01   by being physical, that could be super important.

01:36:05   - I try not to just dismiss stuff like that,

01:36:09   like yo and like the stamp thing out of hand. I'll make jokes about yo just like anybody

01:36:13   else or whatever 'cause I think it's funny, especially when they're given millions of

01:36:17   dollars before having proven that it actually has traction or anything. But I think that

01:36:23   it's... The simpler something is, the easier it is to make jokes and fun about it. And

01:36:29   yet those are usually the things that have the potential to be the most powerful because

01:36:34   of their simplicity.

01:36:35   So, yeah, yo.

01:36:36   Yeah, you know yo it's nonverbal communication can be so important, but it's always been about

01:36:43   being in

01:36:45   Proximity to each other right like so like just another stupid example now this one

01:36:50   I don't know is replaceable by the watch, but it's like imagine you're at

01:36:54   Family dinner, it's Thanksgiving or something like that

01:36:57   you're at the grandparents house, and it's long and it's boring and people are talking about boring stuff and

01:37:01   And if you're sitting next to your kid, you can just, and you know that they're bored,

01:37:05   just give their leg a little squeeze and then they look at you and you just give them a

01:37:09   look like, "I know.

01:37:10   Hey, thanks for putting up."

01:37:12   You know, you can just shoot a look like, "Hey, thanks for putting up with this.

01:37:15   I know, this is boring."

01:37:16   You don't have to say anything, right?

01:37:18   And it's like nonverbal communication.

01:37:20   You can do things that are so interesting.

01:37:23   And truth be told, the word applies.

01:37:25   It's intimate.

01:37:26   So I'm curious how it will play out.

01:37:30   I do think—

01:37:31   People did associate the oh, yeah, go ahead

01:37:34   Well, I just think the other angle that's important is that it only works if everybody involved has an Apple watch

01:37:39   Yeah, yeah, that's true I mean obviously that's important for Apple

01:37:44   It's important for them to

01:37:48   Convince you that the two-way aspect of it is important because that means that you know

01:37:54   You're you're gonna get it's not just the most techie person in the family will own one

01:37:58   Because then half the stuff that they that is available to them won't work, right?

01:38:02   You have to have it's sort of a family device that everybody has one

01:38:07   So they have a potential to sell a lot of these things I think yeah totally

01:38:12   What did you think of Kevin Lynch

01:38:17   So I thought he did pretty well I thought he was pretty good up there

01:38:24   He seemed much more comfortable than he was last time

01:38:28   Sort of owning his position now and and saying, you know, I'm okay being here. I have things to say and

01:38:36   You know, I'm comfortable in in my knowledge of them

01:38:41   That's the way it seemed to come across but I liked it. I thought he did a good job

01:38:44   I thought he was personable. He was comfortable. He demonstrated stuff fairly well

01:38:48   Yeah, I think you know, we're all

01:38:53   you know, we're just being honest, you know, we're harsh critics of the

01:38:58   presenters at Apple events because the bar is so high and

01:39:01   I think it was remarkable how much better he did

01:39:06   I don't think he did terribly in September but it was awkward

01:39:08   And times and he seemed a little just a little unpolished and I thought it was remarkable how much better he did having only done

01:39:15   one of them before

01:39:17   Mm-hmm. Yeah, he was he was very very nervous last time you could tell and

01:39:23   He definitely overcame that this time around I thought it was he stepped up

01:39:28   You know because this is the Apple events the Super Bowl of tech events

01:39:31   So I think he really stepped up and Craig Federighi comes to mind Craig Federighi when he rejoined Apple and his first on stage appearance

01:39:39   Was forget when it was but I know it was the back to the Mac event where they first announced

01:39:44   hey, here's a whole bunch of things that we've been doing on iOS that we're gonna bring to the Mac and the next version and

01:39:50   his hands were literally shaking like he had trouble going through the demo because his hand on the mouse was shaking and he

01:39:57   Wasn't able to click and it was almost like awkward to watch and now he's one of the best presenters

01:40:03   They have in fact on Twitter a bunch of people

01:40:05   You know, we're are you you know, we're arguing that he's the best that he's even better than you know

01:40:10   Shiller or Tim Cook that he's the best that they have and it only you know was only like two or three events in

01:40:16   Yeah, I agree that he is one of their best he has a presence he comes on stage now and he seems like he's having fun

01:40:22   He really I think he's he works the room. Yeah, you know and I think that that is a it's a different

01:40:29   It's actually a different very different than chillers measured take or Tim's like passion thing that he's got

01:40:37   You know, it's very much like hey, we're all here. We got some really cool stuff. We think he'll love to see it

01:40:44   You know, let's just have some fun up here. Look at my hair, you know, he's he comes across like

01:40:49   To me like Bob Saget on the old full house show like he's just oh just owns the dad joke

01:40:56   Nature of it, you know and which is funny because and Bob and Bob's not like that at all, right?

01:41:01   Like Bob Saget is actually one of the like dirtiest

01:41:04   comics

01:41:06   like I like anybody who's anything about like

01:41:08   Stand-up comic comedians and they knows that Bob Saget is like just brutally

01:41:13   blue in his usual stuff so like the idea that he was like playing this g-rated dad on a

01:41:21   Hit show was like just icing on the cake, but but that's what right it was almost stunt cast, right?

01:41:27   You know, it's just he wasn't extremely well known at the time, right?

01:41:30   But he totally you know, he bought into it though, like, you know

01:41:33   He totally sold and like Federighi's like that like his you know, he totally owns the corny jokes that he you know

01:41:39   sprinkles throughout this thing he's

01:41:41   Yeah, and they don't work if you don't right they don't they they come off as forced or awful or grown worthy

01:41:47   And and people will groan even now but they're grown good-naturedly because they know he's in on the job

01:41:52   Yeah, there's there's like um, that's why he comes out. There's like a meta level to it

01:41:55   It's like two levels deeper on the one level

01:41:57   He totally tries to sell the joke as hard as he can but on another level

01:42:01   He's also got like I know this is corny like he's not trying to convince you that this is you know, anything but you know

01:42:08   g-rated corporate comedy

01:42:11   You know he only that's why would people refer to dad jokes

01:42:14   That's what they're saying like your dad knows what he's saying is corny, but he's just like he just wants to talk to you, right?

01:42:20   That's all he's doing

01:42:22   He's like trying to initiate a conversation and be like and he knows that you're gonna think it's corny and he's doing it

01:42:27   Be almost because of that right so that you guys are both in on the joke

01:42:31   And I think that's that that's what comes across there

01:42:34   Let me take one last break here, and then we'll keep going on Apple watch

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01:46:59   So if there's anything that I was disappointed by in the event, it was that they didn't really show

01:47:06   Anything new that they hadn't shown before and I kind of expected that they would except for third-party stuff

01:47:12   Which they obviously couldn't show at the original. Yeah, I did. I wanted them to

01:47:17   to

01:47:19   expose

01:47:21   Their reasoning a little bit which they have done in the past, right?

01:47:25   and I think that a lot of this comes in the form of on stage it comes in the form of

01:47:30   We think this is gonna be great for X and Y right and that is their way of saying

01:47:36   These are the things that we were thinking about when we made it right and they don't do it always super explicitly

01:47:41   But it seems like you generally get kind of those knots

01:47:44   Right, and it didn't seem like they did a whole lot of that for the watch. Yeah, definitely not I

01:47:49   And I think I I think I think it shows I think it

01:47:54   For better or for worse I'm not willing to say that they're wrong I'm not passing judgment yet, but it seems to me like their message is

01:48:04   starts with the idea that people want the Apple watch and that it's largely about which one do you want and

01:48:12   That they've they don't see the need to explain why you want it. Do you agree? I

01:48:19   Think that's true. I think they don't see the need but I also think they're wrong. Hmm, right? So I think they they

01:48:28   they feel that if you have an iPhone this first batch of

01:48:33   watch users will be people that have an iPhone that want more iPhone-y stuff, right?

01:48:39   That want more of that experience or want to have access to those things.

01:48:43   And here's some cool other things you can do with it. And that's enough.

01:48:47   And that is okay, and it may work just fine, but I think that they're wrong if they think,

01:48:53   and I'm also, remember I'm projecting motivations on them at this point,

01:48:57   but if they think that that's enough, I think they're wrong.

01:49:00   I think they actually do need to, or needed to, focus a little bit more on use case scenarios

01:49:07   because they're going uphill against this sort of downward pressure of... it's more

01:49:15   money and it's another thing I've got in my life that may take attention from me. Obviously

01:49:29   because i wrote that i feel that it may actually give you back time

01:49:32   but i think that there was none of that explicitly said

01:49:36   you know or very little of it i didn't mind the

01:49:40   the

01:49:41   what was the what's the word the uh... the conceit of

01:49:45   kevin lynch's

01:49:46   demo of let's just run through a typical day in the life of and apple watch

01:49:51   i think that was good

01:49:53   you know and a lot of it was third party but what was missing

01:49:56   and they've never done

01:49:58   is like with the original iPhone Steve Jobs is like here it is and then he showed it and

01:50:03   here's the home screen and it was here's what all the apps do.

01:50:09   I'm not quite sure that he opened every app but he certainly opened all the main ones

01:50:14   right he opened you know he went through Safari he went through mail he went through the phone

01:50:23   app and said you know we've you know we've reinvented the phone and you know

01:50:27   here's you know voicemail sucks here now we've done it the right way it's visual

01:50:31   you get them in a list like just like your email and you can see who they're

01:50:35   from and play them and delete them in a list like you know so you're not like an

01:50:40   animal anymore sitting there stabbing buttons right like you forget I mean I'm

01:50:43   voice it sucks anyway and everybody nobody really likes getting phone yes

01:50:46   but God voicemail sucked before the iPhone is ridiculous oh my god it was

01:50:51   Yeah, it was so bad and once you got a few messages deep it was just horrific

01:50:56   And so yeah that on stage it was such a cool drink of water

01:50:59   So like maybe like, you know your dad and your mom called, you know

01:51:03   What you know two or three times a week and a lot of time you have a bunch of voicemails there

01:51:06   but you've got a voicemail from

01:51:08   You know like a doctor appointment or something like that that's four or five deep now

01:51:12   But you still need it because the doctors that that message is the only thing you have that has the phone number of the office

01:51:17   And you need to call them back because you have to move your appointment

01:51:20   So I got sucked before finding that message

01:51:22   And it's you know

01:51:25   He showed it though, right? I don't know I think he went through like calendar

01:51:29   I maybe he didn't go through them all but it just seemed to me like and and at least you could see what they all

01:51:33   Are and if he didn't show you the calculator app, you saw the icon on the home screen and you knew well, it's calculator

01:51:39   I still think like to me it's crazy that like there's all these apps on the home screen of the watch that they still haven't

01:51:46   Told us what they do

01:51:48   Like right out of the box. Yeah, there's a bunch of them like get the App Store forget

01:51:53   You know for you know, which I do think is important and it's you know

01:51:56   It sent key to the success of the thing long term as a platform

01:51:59   But I'm just saying as an Apple watch user you buy it you bring it home

01:52:02   You put it on your wrist and there's a bunch of apps on the home screen and they still haven't explained them

01:52:07   I'm really surprised by that and

01:52:10   Disappointed honestly Tim Cook did mention it

01:52:14   He said, you know, like one of our team members who's wearing it loves using his watch to take pictures remotely

01:52:20   But they didn't show it. I can't believe they didn't show it such a visual thing, too

01:52:23   Like I just I just kind of feel like however many icons there are on the home screen out of the box

01:52:31   They need to be justified explain to us why why they're there?

01:52:35   You know and I guess you know, I don't know to me. There's a and maybe it's justified. Maybe they're

01:52:42   I was gonna say arrogance, you know is justified that there they know that it people will buy it and people will figure it out on their own

01:52:49   But I'm surprised because to me that's what that to me is how they that that's why I say that it felt like two different

01:52:56   Events it like the first half focused on the MacBook did exactly what Apple to me always is the hallmark of it

01:53:04   Is that they here's here's everything that's different and new about this. Here's why and

01:53:11   you know the trackpad the keys the

01:53:13   You know the new screen technology the lack of ports, you know, they're going away, you know, we do everything wirelessly now

01:53:21   And we've you know done this amazing battery stuff to make it all work and shrunk the motherboard and got rid of the fans

01:53:27   So we had room for batteries. Boom. They explained it all whereas the watch they're not doing that at all

01:53:31   And I don't want to read too much into it because I really have no idea behind the scenes who does what but it

01:53:38   From the outside externally. It's interesting to me that Schiller has had nothing to do with the watch on stage

01:53:45   And I don't know that is interesting

01:53:49   You know, I just I I just couldn't I can't see him doing a presentation like this where it's not explained

01:53:57   and I'm again, I'm I'm not trying to say that there's any kind of

01:54:01   Controversy inside Apple about it. Maybe he helped, you know for all I know

01:54:06   He was right there and stage directed everything about the watch thing even though he wasn't doing it

01:54:11   I don't know but it just is interesting to me. No, I know to me

01:54:15   it felt like a different tone and a different style of presentation and

01:54:18   It's interesting that Schiller had nothing to do with it at either event

01:54:21   It is interesting and it does it is against his sort of presentation style not to say this is what it is and

01:54:28   Explain it in in sort of enough detail

01:54:33   but not too much to kinda get the point across why

01:54:36   a) it's special and b) you'd want to use it. Right?

01:54:39   And that I think was missing from the watch. I have this theory,

01:54:44   I'll float it here, I was gonna write about it, but I'll float it here for the first time, you can tell me what you think.

01:54:47   So I have this theory about the whole use case scenario.

01:54:50   Obviously I think time saved is an initial metric to look at.

01:54:54   You know, when you get a watch, I'm gonna try to do this myself, I'm gonna try to gauge

01:54:58   how many times I look at my phone during the day,

01:55:00   and then I'm gonna get the watch, put it on, and then measure how many times to look at the phone

01:55:05   after that, and then see what the differential is. I think that will be an interesting

01:55:08   metric to look at, right? But beyond that, so that's the initial thing,

01:55:13   my theory is, is that they have another strong use case for this,

01:55:18   but it depends on third-party

01:55:22   buy-in and time,

01:55:25   so they can't talk about it yet. And that use case

01:55:29   is that the Apple Watch becomes a tube of lubricant for your life.

01:55:35   So you have the watch on your wrist, you walk up to your car, and your car unlocks with

01:55:41   either a confirmation tap or just by proximity.

01:55:44   Then you--probably a tap, I would guess, because you want confirmation of a secure thing unlocking.

01:55:49   Then you get in your car and your watch tells your Apple--your CarPlay display that you

01:55:56   want to listen to this music and this is you in the car so you can adjust your seats or

01:56:00   whatever the case may be to you.

01:56:03   It loads up your navigation for your morning drive on your Apple Maps because it knows

01:56:08   this is the time you go to work or you go to school or whatever the case may be.

01:56:12   You drive, you stop at a gas station, you get out, you walk in, you pay for coffee with

01:56:17   your Apple Watch.

01:56:19   You walk out, you get into your car, you drive to school, you get out, you walk in, you hand

01:56:24   your homework by tapping your Apple Watch a couple times to transmit your homework to

01:56:29   your teacher. You sit down, you cheat on your test with your Apple Watch. You get the gist,

01:56:36   these lubricants will add up to, once again it's a time-saving theme, but they sort of

01:56:43   allow you to kind of do this. The model for this is the MagicBand at the Disneyland or

01:56:49   or Disney World, where they have this band that has NFC and Bluetooth in it

01:56:53   and it's your wallet and it's your ticket to the park and it's your Fastpass

01:56:58   which allows you to jump the line and it's your

01:57:01   signal that tells a cast member that you're nearby and they can come up

01:57:06   with a personalized offer like,

01:57:07   "Oh hi Matthew, would you like to meet Cinderella? She's right over here."

01:57:10   You know, all of that stuff and I think that there's a lot of

01:57:13   fear involved in that, but there's also a lot of possibility

01:57:17   And I think that that maybe is their long game here, but they can't talk about it yet

01:57:21   because they have to have the buy-in from the car manufacturers and from the POS and from, you know, etc, etc, etc.

01:57:27   Yeah, I agree with that. I think that calling it

01:57:33   a social lubricant or life lubricant time lubricant.

01:57:39   I gotta refine that because, yeah.

01:57:41   I know.

01:57:41   But yeah, it is. I think that that's the scenario.

01:57:45   I also think that maybe more than time saved what they're trying to pitch it as and this

01:57:51   to me it's you know it's very it's not any different than any other smartwatch in terms

01:57:56   of the mission statement which is to me attention saved that it takes less of your attention

01:58:02   to glance at your watch than it does to glance at your phone.

01:58:06   Johnny Ive had an interesting quote in the Financial Times interview or feature that

01:58:12   he that came out a week ago where he said something about with a traditional watch that he noticed

01:58:19   that many times he'd glanced at his wrist to check the time and then realized that he hadn't even

01:58:25   really noticed the time and had you would have to look twice because like the first time he was

01:58:30   paying so little attention that it didn't even register um that that's how lightweight a watch

01:58:37   can be that you can almost pay not enough attention and have to check twice.

01:58:43   And that's interesting.

01:58:45   And I do think that's sort of where they're going.

01:58:47   But on the other hand, that pitch is no different than the pitch for Android Wear or for Pebble

01:58:51   or for anybody else.

01:58:52   Right.

01:58:53   Yeah, right.

01:58:54   Right.

01:58:55   And the only difference is that it's our thing, and so we're going to make it easier than

01:58:59   their thing.

01:59:01   Yeah.

01:59:02   You know, the communication angle is all Apple.

01:59:05   sending a doodle, sending a heartbeat, sending a tap, is that's, you know, nobody

01:59:10   else has anything like that. And it's very intimate and personal. The

01:59:14   notification thing is like the obvious feature that everybody has thought of.

01:59:18   Right, right. I agree. So, and I mean the reason, just the very fact that we're

01:59:24   having to dissect this makes me think that maybe they didn't communicate these

01:59:27   things as clearly as they could. You know, they could. One of the things they showed,

01:59:31   and I know that they've said this and people have noticed that, for example,

01:59:34   somebody sends you a text and it will show up on your watch and

01:59:38   You can respond either

01:59:40   Like I think three ways

01:59:43   Like you hit respond and it'll try to give you a couple of guesses in a button, you know any example being

01:59:50   you know, I'm at the supermarket and I could

01:59:53   Text my wife

01:59:56   you know the shopping list just says butter and I could say

02:00:00   Salted or unsalted butter and then it's the AI is gonna parse that and if she answers on her watch

02:00:04   She will have buttons that say salted unsalted. Not sure

02:00:08   Mm-hmm, which is cool

02:00:11   Obviously, it does not cover every scenario and then you know

02:00:14   you can use the microphone to either send a recording of audio or to have the

02:00:21   Dictations, you know dictate what you say

02:00:23   I could see that being useful

02:00:26   But to me it's interesting and telling and sort of questionable that you can't do that for email for email

02:00:32   You can only read and if you want to reply it has to be handed off to your phone

02:00:37   and

02:00:39   I can kind of see why because emails are longer and more complex and you know how much dictation, you know

02:00:45   like text is the right amount of

02:00:47   length implicit implicit not necessarily enforced

02:00:53   Like I don't know. I'm not even sure what the largest I message you're allowed to send is in terms of words

02:00:57   I don't even know if there is a limit but you know

02:00:59   There's an implicit idea that it's a sentence or two. Whereas an email might be longer

02:01:03   But they showed it they showed on stage like reading an email on Apple watch and it seems ridiculous

02:01:09   right, it's

02:01:12   Yeah, it does

02:01:15   The people that I talked to that have been using it kind of like on and off

02:01:18   for a while or have had it on their wrist, they say that it's actually much more readable,

02:01:22   I guess, than it seems. And my experience in person was I pulled up some

02:01:27   some stuff that I could read and I scrubbed back and forth and it's definitely readable.

02:01:31   But it's tiring, right? The reason they call them glances and the reason that

02:01:35   a lot of their stuff is based on you flipping your watch up to look at it

02:01:38   is like I was doing a demo, recording a demo with

02:01:41   Darrell, my coworker, and he was filming me and I was running through the

02:01:45   watch's paces, right, for our

02:01:47   Apple Watch hands-on thing. And as I'm holding my wrist up there and I'm

02:01:51   dinking around with it, and it took like three, four minutes or whatever to record the

02:01:54   demo, five minutes,

02:01:55   and by the end of it, my arm kinda hurt. Now I'm a little out of shape, but I don't

02:01:59   think that had anything to do with it. It's just,

02:02:01   it's an uncomfortable position to hold for a long period of time.

02:02:04   Like if you hold your arm up and out in front of you and position it so that

02:02:08   you're looking at like your watch face,

02:02:09   if you hold that for any more than maybe 30 seconds, it starts to get

02:02:12   uncomfortable.

02:02:13   It's just we're not sort of built to do that.

02:02:16   And I think that that's an interesting thing.

02:02:18   I don't think we're-- I think we may read something a couple hundred words long, but

02:02:22   not much longer than that.

02:02:24   I've heard from people who've been to the third-party lab that they're hosting, that

02:02:30   they're inviting developers out for, that-- I might even be the first thing that they

02:02:35   they say is that anything, any feature you're thinking about for a watch app should be 10

02:02:43   to 15 seconds or less of time.

02:02:46   And if your idea is something that will take more than 15 seconds, it's probably not a

02:02:50   good idea for the watch.

02:02:53   And if your idea currently takes more than 15 seconds and you can't, you know, you should

02:02:59   try to figure out a way to make it 10 seconds.

02:03:01   Don't think it's so much about partly partly it's about battery life, but I think partly it's even if the battery was a week-long

02:03:09   of

02:03:11   Serious use I think that that advice will still stand for exactly the reason you said like it's just the nature of something on your wrist

02:03:18   is

02:03:19   ergonomically and

02:03:21   Whatever else psychologically even is you know glances. Yep

02:03:26   Yep, and then the further away you get from glances the less useful it is and the less people will want to utilize whatever app

02:03:33   You've designed and I think there's gonna be a learning curve for that like people are gonna ship stuff

02:03:37   That's obviously not right, you know, or doesn't doesn't work, right?

02:03:41   Did you in the hands-on experience that you had did you get to feel the taps? Oh, yeah

02:03:49   I did and they're really cool

02:03:50   I mean

02:03:51   And this is I glad you brought that up because this whole tap tick thing is so worth talking about

02:03:55   Because I think it's a big part of Apple's future, you know on on all their devices

02:04:00   No, yeah, we shit the bed by not talking about totally Mac book. Well, we can do it now good. Yeah

02:04:05   Did you did you get like I felt taps in September, but they were all part of the demo loop

02:04:12   And it was really the only taps I felt were like when a text message arrived and I thought man. This is really cool

02:04:16   It's not like a do you agree? It's not like a vibration at all. It's it's a new sensation

02:04:21   Right. Yeah, actually, it's, it's haptic feedback. But it's done by the use of what they call

02:04:30   lateral force fields, which is essentially these forces that are directed sideways at

02:04:35   one another. And I believe it's the collision of those forces that they can shape to direct

02:04:41   the pressure downwards towards your wrist.

02:04:46   Did you did you get to demo the whole left right thing? Because that was something I

02:04:50   I didn't get to experience in September.

02:04:52   - No, I didn't. - And they repeated it.

02:04:54   - I didn't. - They repeated it again

02:04:55   that if you're using it for walking directions,

02:04:58   it'll give you a sense of turn right.

02:05:00   Like, and I still, I can't,

02:05:02   I still can't imagine what that's like.

02:05:03   It sounds awesome. - Yeah.

02:05:05   - But it's like, I still haven't gotten to experience it.

02:05:08   - No, that's a good question.

02:05:09   I didn't do that.

02:05:11   I wish I had now.

02:05:13   Yeah, I could see how they could shape it though,

02:05:16   to go left or right, just knowing just a little bit

02:05:18   that I know about the technology.

02:05:20   there was this uh...

02:05:22   and this goes for the the engine 'cause i think that the engine share a lot of

02:05:25   similarities between the taptic engine and the watch

02:05:28   and the vibration or haptic feedback engine that's underneath the

02:05:33   macbooks touch pad

02:05:34   they share a lot of similarities

02:05:37   and that i mean they're essentially based on the uh... same

02:05:42   overall uh...

02:05:45   theory

02:05:46   of the way that they shape and move these vibrations so the trackpad

02:05:50   I just published something on this last night because I asked some co-workers and they didn't know.

02:05:55   But the trackpad doesn't move on the MacBook at all.

02:05:58   There's some sort of nanometer that they say it's allowed to move, but it doesn't move, essentially.

02:06:05   Because a nanometer is a hundred thousandth the thickness of a sheet of paper or something.

02:06:10   But it doesn't click. It doesn't actually physically move.

02:06:13   So when you press it, there is a sort of pressure sensitivity threshold that you're allowed to adjust,

02:06:18   Which I think is going to have great implications for accessibility people with you know motor skills issues and things

02:06:23   But there's a certain pressure that you're allowed to push and once you pass that threshold it sends this signal

02:06:29   using this these LFS these lateral force fields

02:06:33   to to

02:06:36   Simulate that the keypad is clicked and it's the same thing that's using the taptic engine is using I believe

02:06:42   To direct the force straight down into your wrist and it definitely feels straight down like a finger pushing into your wrist

02:06:49   So hands on with the MacBook. Did it feel good like clicking?

02:06:53   Oh, I felt it felt so good that I an Apple person actually had to tell me it didn't move

02:06:58   Really? Yeah, that's cuz like I missed that it didn't move or something

02:07:01   I would you know

02:07:02   There's a lot going on and I guess I just missed it and I was clicking on and I was oh cool

02:07:06   Cool later on an Apple person told me oh no

02:07:08   It doesn't move at all because I thought that it had one level of click and then

02:07:12   With the force touch thing you push down further and then it vibrated your finger and you felt like oh, I'm clicking downwards further

02:07:18   But he's like no, it's not at all. That says it that says everything know that you didn't even realize that

02:07:23   Yeah, so in other words, I best way to put it I guess would be if the MacBook is powered off

02:07:27   There's no click at all

02:07:29   You'll just it's right happening the non right pad part

02:07:32   And yeah, I had an Apple person tell me that they actually would like set two of them side by side

02:07:36   I guess they didn't know testing and playing with them and they could like play piano on them because they're so they you know

02:07:41   But they basically send all those pulses up and you can like you could like rotate your fingers on them

02:07:46   I get this like sort of piano feel but yeah, if you're off that thing is not gonna vibrate. It's not gonna click at all

02:07:51   It's just this piece of glass

02:07:53   New stuff tends to ship iOS first. I mean iOS is still the only thing with touch ID

02:08:00   It's just you know, it's the nature of today's Apple. I think it's pretty telling that

02:08:06   force touch in the tactic engine came to the mac before i_o_s_ and i think the

02:08:11   easiest prediction of two twenty fifteen is that this year's new iphones are

02:08:16   going to have forced touch and probably i i would bet i pads to

02:08:21   yeah easily and i think there's a wall street journal thing that came out like

02:08:24   a report last night or this morning or something that said

02:08:27   you know iphones later this year are going to have forced touch and

02:08:30   uh... yeah i was like uh... of obviously right

02:08:34   there is

02:08:35   remember too that it's two separate technologies, right? So you have force touch, which is the

02:08:40   we know how hard you're pressing so we can do different things depending on how hard

02:08:44   you press. And then there is the feedback.

02:08:47   JE: Lateral force fields.

02:08:48   CB; Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Those haptic, that haptic feedback. And it would be interesting

02:08:53   to me if one comes to the iPhone without the other. Because it feels like they're intertwined

02:08:58   technologies, right? Because you get the force sensors around the trackpad, which they determine

02:09:02   hard you press and then in the middle you've got that engine which can give you the vibrations

02:09:07   back i think it's i think they're i think it's both will come because um how cool will it be if

02:09:13   i think it'd be so great if your buttons on your phone actually click that's so great yeah oh my

02:09:19   god as a that seems like honestly that it seems to me like it it's it'll be best on ios you know

02:09:30   even more impressive than it is anywhere else because I think that would be so cool to have

02:09:34   touch screen buttons that actually click. Oh man, that'd be great. I'm waiting. I did just

02:09:39   thinking about it. I'm waiting to to email John Chen to ask him for his reactions.

02:09:43   The CEO Blackberry. I just want to like all these years. You got your wish like clickable keys on

02:09:51   the iPhone. God, I didn't even think about it for typing. I didn't even think about it, but that

02:09:55   that would be that'd be great the other thing they even say they're saying for

02:10:01   the Mac is with the trackpad is that it's pressure sensitive drawing you know

02:10:07   that you and that's on a trackpad now take that up how much better would it be

02:10:12   for pressure sensitive drawing on an iPad it's crazy it'd be fantastic yeah

02:10:17   that's really makes sense to me that the pressure is registered on the device and

02:10:23   and not through the stylus.

02:10:25   So you have a dumb stylus or your finger and a smart pad

02:10:30   that which is where the pressure is registered.

02:10:33   I think any, you know, all previous efforts

02:10:35   that put the pressure sensitivity in the stylus,

02:10:38   they had to if they wanted to work on iOS obviously,

02:10:41   but I think that's the backwards way of doing it.

02:10:44   - Yeah, totally, 100%.

02:10:45   And it makes an iPad instantly kind of more attractive

02:10:50   than say a Cintiq or something like that,

02:10:52   because you're drawing on this mobile device that has all these capabilities and now it has pressure sensitivity as well.

02:11:00   The one thing that they would be missing at that point, which I would really love to see them fix, is the latency issue.

02:11:07   Because they're way above the 10 millisecond threshold. They're at like 30 or 40 or something.

02:11:12   Or maybe even higher, I can't remember what it is exactly.

02:11:15   but uh... below ten seconds ten milliseconds is where

02:11:19   you sort of get this feel where it's one-to-one like your pen tip

02:11:22   it follows your pen tip exactly 'cause right now if you scrub on an iPad like drawing

02:11:28   your drawing falls way behind

02:11:29   you know the iPad typically

02:11:31   uh... or the stylus tip rather

02:11:33   uh... and that's like a screen latency issue and so

02:11:36   if they were able to fix that

02:11:39   and give this sort of pressure sensitivity

02:11:42   uh... to the screen i mean it is it would instantly make it the best drawing

02:11:46   surface out there electronic ranks of us out there

02:11:49   and and a lot of artists are already doing amazing work drawing on i pads but

02:11:53   it's you know he said it's it

02:11:56   could totally take it to another level and i agree the latency is totally

02:11:59   initial i'm not an artist and draw

02:12:01   but i notice it whenever i have to sign my name like at an apple store that

02:12:05   sign out on a mhm owner whatever

02:12:07   it lags behind

02:12:09   and i'd it's

02:12:10   it's surmountable

02:12:11   like artists there are many artists doing really really cool stuff on i've

02:12:14   had a scene

02:12:15   tons of our label apples last ad thing featured a bunch of our creed and i've

02:12:18   had a great

02:12:19   and so there's obviously people doing the stuff there but

02:12:22   thereby passing that difficulty by training themselves

02:12:26   and i think that just giving them

02:12:28   the bill

02:12:29   one-to-one the true one-to-one as

02:12:31   as we've always had to play

02:12:32   taps in scrolling

02:12:34   uh... but doing that with like vigorous drawing or expressive drawing

02:12:38   would help a lot for sure.

02:12:42   What did you think of the watches themselves? Like, which any of the bands stand out to you?

02:12:49   So I'll make my purchase prediction now. I think

02:12:54   I'm probably going to end up with the

02:12:57   black,

02:12:59   the space black with the black rubber band.

02:13:03   I think that's probably what I'm going to end up with.

02:13:05   And not because I don't like the Lynx,

02:13:08   but just because i think it's

02:13:10   that is to become a get more day-to-day use out of that and i mean the purchasing

02:13:14   like link separately later on

02:13:16   but like the black with black links for the black with the

02:13:19   the band is kind of what i'm leaning towards right now

02:13:22   uh... spiel sports

02:13:25   uh... the black with the black sports band

02:13:28   yet but that's that's what's going to because i think the black still only

02:13:32   comes with the links

02:13:33   all i see what you're saying that you did

02:13:36   it about black sport or black

02:13:38   aluminum

02:13:40   right with the steel yet

02:13:41   now probably black aluminum

02:13:43   because i think the steel only comes with the stealing

02:13:45   so be either one of those two things

02:13:47   the other thing that uh...

02:13:50   that i would like

02:13:51   although i'm not sure i want to see the person because it does seem to me and i

02:13:55   know a lot of people set it on twitter that looks like some of the black steel

02:14:00   with the link bracelet is darker than what they showed in September and what they've

02:14:04   had on their website until yesterday or until Monday. But I don't know though if that's

02:14:09   a difference in the product photography or if they actually changed the material between

02:14:15   them and now.

02:14:16   Right. Right. Yeah. That's what you're saying. I mean, I think they could have definitely

02:14:21   enhanced it maybe to make it a bigger differential. It's possible, for sure. But I think that

02:14:26   the black of the black steel is probably the most instantly attractive to me.

02:14:30   But in person, the black one looks gorgeous. I mean it's highly... it's like a

02:14:35   chrome,

02:14:36   but it's very, very, very pretty. I think that they did a great job with that.

02:14:40   And the black steel links,

02:14:42   that's just... it's beastly. It's a very manly design, obviously.

02:14:45   I don't want to project, you know, and some women may love it, but

02:14:49   it seems to me like it's aimed at the male market.

02:14:53   But almost all of them had an attractiveness, a genuine attractiveness.

02:14:57   The aluminum ones do look very utilitarian next to the other stuff.

02:15:04   Almost everything else looks very classy, very polished and refined.

02:15:08   And the aluminum ones are aluminum.

02:15:11   And there's just a difference there.

02:15:12   And remember too, the aluminum ones are the only ones that don't have a colored crown.

02:15:17   The end of the crown is just bull-nosed into aluminum.

02:15:21   So there's definitely a feeling of like, "Hey, this is a tool," where the other

02:15:26   things are maybe a little bit more your personal style.

02:15:30   Hey everybody, Jon here.

02:15:35   Sorry about this, but the next minute or two of the audio of this episode is a bit garbled.

02:15:44   Like some kind of awful sounding digital artifacts, something from a low-rent horror movie or

02:15:50   or something. We're not sure what happened. Nothing we can do about it. Seemed better

02:15:54   to keep it for the content than to cut the whole thing and have the show be a bit disjointed.

02:16:01   But I figured we'd do an insert here just to let you know that it's not like you got

02:16:04   a bad copy of the file or something like that. This unknown issue lasts about a minute or

02:16:08   two. We'll do our best to make sure it doesn't happen again. Sorry about that, and thanks

02:16:12   for listening.

02:16:13   Yeah, I, I, uh, my pricing guess is pretty good. I certainly got the edition one right.

02:16:20   Uh, I overshot our steel and I, in hindsight, it was basically, I, the thing that, the mistake I made was overlooking how easy it is physically, mechanically to swap bands.

02:16:30   and there's no reason for that if they weren't going to try to sell multiple bands at your purchase,

02:16:37   which means the pricing... I should have been able to guess exactly the final pricing for steel,

02:16:43   because once you assume that the bands would be priced to sell, everything else falls into place.

02:16:52   I think what's interesting, pricing wise though, so let's say you want to get a 42 millimeter

02:16:59   steel and you want to get the link bracelets.

02:17:03   It's $999, right?

02:17:04   Unless you want to get the black, right?

02:17:08   Right.

02:17:09   And the black's like 100 bucks more or something like that.

02:17:13   Or 50 bucks more or something?

02:17:15   Let me double check.

02:17:17   - Yeah, $9.99, and it's $50 premium,

02:17:20   or no, $100 premium to get space black.

02:17:22   - Okay.

02:17:23   - But let's just say you get the silver one,

02:17:25   the silver colored stainless steel, $999.

02:17:28   If you buy the sport model, it's $600,

02:17:35   and the link bracelet is only 450.

02:17:41   So it would only, I guess,

02:17:44   so I guess you'd pay $50 more then.

02:17:47   I guess it all works out.

02:17:48   So if you buy, I was thinking that you would save 50 bucks,

02:17:51   but no, I was getting confused between 38 millimeter

02:17:54   and 48 millimeter, 42 millimeter prices.

02:17:56   So no, it's exactly the same.

02:17:57   So you don't pay any penalty if you buy the one

02:18:00   that comes with the rubber band and buy a link bracelet.

02:18:03   You pay the exact same amount as if you buy the one

02:18:05   with the link bracelet and buy a $50 rubber band.

02:18:09   Yeah, that's it.

02:18:12   - Well, I remember too though

02:18:13   that you've got a metal mismatch there.

02:18:16   Louis Mantilla made a nice chart of

02:18:18   stuff that quote

02:18:19   matches end quote and stuff that doesn't. In other words the pin is a different

02:18:23   metal than the casing or the buckle is a different metal than the casing or even

02:18:27   the links are a different metal than the casing.

02:18:30   So those won't match, right? Because there's only steel

02:18:33   and black steel in the link bracelets

02:18:36   so those won't match the

02:18:39   casing finish on the aluminum.

02:18:41   So if you don't mind a metal mismatch then you're golden. You can do that and it

02:18:45   It won't cost you any extra, but it will miss, it won't match.

02:18:50   It won't match exactly the metals.

02:18:52   Yeah, and I don't think that matters as much.

02:18:54   I think anybody who does it, it's not going to look bad per se, because it actually is

02:18:58   slightly different than the steel anyway, because the steel, the case is highly polished

02:19:03   and the bracelet is not.

02:19:05   The bracelet is sort of brushed, which actually makes sense because it would, you know, the

02:19:11   bracelet's going to take more scratches than--

02:19:12   It would scar and scuff, right.

02:19:14   Yeah.

02:19:15   You know you see that a lot on on traditional watch bit

02:19:18   You know bracelet bands that you know some of them are polished

02:19:20   But that's more like when you get like a platinum or gold or something like that if it's stainless. It's often not polished

02:19:25   Yeah, and on the physical nature of the watch as well. We're talking about the bands and the casings

02:19:30   They just for listeners if that haven't you know had the chance to feel these things. They're a lot thinner than they look

02:19:37   Both the bands and the casing and this goes for all the bands like all of them are a lot thinner in person

02:19:45   Width wise, you know height wise I should say then it then it looks like in these images

02:19:50   These images make them look like the camera adds 10 pounds

02:19:52   The camera is adding 10 pounds to all of these casings and bands because I'm looking right now

02:19:56   at an image of the 42 millimeter stainless steel with the link bracelet and that link bracelet looks fat and it's not it's actually

02:20:05   Surprisingly thin. Yeah, and and the same goes for the casings too. Yeah

02:20:11   So I don't I should have predicted that I think they're gonna sell a ton of these bands like

02:20:16   Especially like the Milanese loop is only like I think it's only 150 bucks. Yeah, which I was surprised by yeah

02:20:23   I think that that's almost like a no-brainer. Like I think people might be hesitant to buy the

02:20:27   Link bracelet since it's you know, especially like you say I mean you you will be able to just buy the sport watch and get

02:20:35   The link bracelet, but I think people who are price sensitive enough

02:20:39   To want to go that way aren't gonna want to spend

02:20:41   More on the link bracelet than the watch itself cost. I think you know, I just don't think that's gonna come up much

02:20:47   I'm sure you know that some people will do it

02:20:49   But I think it's it's not even worth worrying about in terms of you know, shut up shut Apple of strategic

02:20:55   You know done something to try to prevent it. Mm-hmm

02:20:57   Yeah, I think you're right and more the more I look at it

02:21:00   I mean the Milanese I've noticed actually a lot of people from Apple wearing those seems pretty popular and

02:21:07   The ease of which it goes on and off and the kind of classiness of it

02:21:12   I think it could be the dress band of choice

02:21:14   Yeah

02:21:14   For a lot of these people that buy like a sport or buy even a steel with a sport band

02:21:20   You know because of because of the cost it could be the dress band of choice for the masses

02:21:24   And I think that it's it definitely has maybe a more

02:21:28   High fashion appeal because the Milanese bracelet unless you were a watch fanatic

02:21:33   You probably never even knew the name even if you saw it in a casing or whatever

02:21:37   But it's obviously a very classic bracelet. It's been around a lot of years

02:21:40   But I just think that it may actually have a nice dressy shiny metal feel

02:21:44   For people that don't want to spend the four hundred and fifty dollars for the steel bracelet

02:21:50   I think that's actually gonna be a popular dress one

02:21:52   Yeah

02:21:53   And if you're the sort of person who's fussy about having something sized perfectly and I am like and I you know in my life

02:21:59   I've always worn watches and there's been a lot of times in my life where I've bought a watch and

02:22:03   and found that there are like two holes you know like with a classic buckle

02:22:08   and one's a little too tight and the other one's a little too loose and i've

02:22:11   always you know i regret that they're you know

02:22:14   like whoever designed the watch the strap hadn't moved the holes like

02:22:19   half a click to the you know up or down um the millenese loop it doesn't have

02:22:24   that problem because it's it's you can size it to exactly you know

02:22:29   where you want once one size fits all so the speaker continuously adjustable

02:22:33   Right. Anybody who's fussy about that is going to love that as a sizable thing.

02:22:40   I think the other thing I guess I wanted to talk about is the timing of the event.

02:22:46   And I know there were a lot of questions going in like, "Well, they've been saying April,

02:22:50   but then why are they holding this event on March 9th?"

02:22:52   And the answer is, "I don't know." Even after the event, right?

02:22:58   I'm not quite sure. So the timing is they had this event on March 9th

02:23:02   The next date is April 10th

02:23:07   Which is when they're going to start taking pre-orders and when they're going to have

02:23:12   watches in Apple stores to look at

02:23:15   And then the next date is April 24th, which is when they're gonna start shipping and selling

02:23:21   Am I I think I have all that. Yes. Yeah

02:23:23   So why hold the event

02:23:27   what seven weeks in advance of a month in advance of pre-orders and

02:23:33   One two three four

02:23:38   Five six weeks before it ships. I

02:23:42   Don't I don't get it. I don't either and I

02:23:47   Mean my mind is my mind's totally blank on this issue. So I

02:23:51   the only thing I can I can spitball on this to use your phrase is that the

02:23:57   might be trying to give reviewers a bigger window.

02:24:02   As far as I know, review units weren't issued for these watches yet.

02:24:09   I certainly don't have one, I'll freely say that.

02:24:12   Although if I did have one, I would probably say the same thing.

02:24:15   Well, you'd say nothing.

02:24:17   No, that's right. You're right. I would say nothing.

02:24:19   So yeah, I don't have one.

02:24:21   It would seem to me that maybe they want to give people more time with them,

02:24:24   because they feel that there's more time.

02:24:26   but that's literally bill and i'm speaking not as a person who

02:24:29   i'm not assuming that i'm gonna get every reason i never do i've only ever

02:24:32   gotten one review thing i think it was probably an accident

02:24:35   we probably included me under on a list of acts of uh... but i'd be just speak

02:24:40   as an interested party like anybody else i'm thinking

02:24:44   what if you want to give people more time to live with these things

02:24:47   before the writer review of them rather than the traditional one week window

02:24:50   and i know they like to keep that window type of look at the distance between say

02:24:53   the pre-order and the sale that's a lot of time you know so i don't know yeah i don't know it

02:24:59   might be different because like hey reviewing a new phone you know what an iphone does you

02:25:05   you know you've been out for six years you don't need more than eight days to review it because

02:25:10   all you're really reviewing is what's new which like this year was it's bigger uh touch id or

02:25:18   apple pay and you know how good is the new camera you know you can do that in a week and maybe like

02:25:23   you're right maybe like this all new platform you know a new way to get

02:25:28   through your day of interacting with your devices and staying connected you

02:25:32   might need no more time I can honestly say this is what you know the weird thing

02:25:34   about me not having been at the event you know I do not have a review unit nor

02:25:40   have I talked to anybody at Apple about getting one so you know I'm completely

02:25:45   in the dark as to whether anybody has one whether I'm going to get one and if

02:25:50   if I did when you know at some point I might have to shut up and stop talking

02:25:54   if I do it's just like a warrant canary where like the company that they take it

02:25:58   off their website and you're like oh my god the NSA is like it is a hit him up

02:26:01   for info I guess I guess you can just keep listening to the talk show and see

02:26:06   if I say I don't have a review nor have I been told that that I'm getting one I

02:26:13   would be very very surprised if anybody has one mm-hmm right now I just don't

02:26:19   think that they would give them out six weeks in advance. It just would be so unlike them.

02:26:23   I wouldn't be surprised if maybe they give, if they seed them April 10th, you know, two

02:26:29   weeks in advance, which would be a little bit more time than they usually do, but I

02:26:35   don't know. And the other thing that's weird about it is in my experience getting review

02:26:40   units since 2011, every time I've ever gotten a review unit of any product from Apple, big

02:26:49   you know flagship or minor upgrade it's been given to me in person and they

02:26:58   don't just ship them although well I have heard of them shipping review units

02:27:03   but I don't know that it's ever been a new cat it well it's never been a new

02:27:06   category of product it's like you know like an upgrade to something or whatever

02:27:09   I have heard of them doing that but yeah I I've gotten them for software products

02:27:14   like they've sent me like a review unit with

02:27:18   uh... the oseminy public beta

02:27:21   on it so that uh... you know

02:27:24   it's weird to say they don't know yet right that makes sense

02:27:26   'cause it's not like the object itself it's the software right and it was

02:27:30   shipping on a totally bog standard you know uh... back but pro it's just a

02:27:35   funny thing that they say i think they make a list of who they want to send

02:27:38   them to and based on you know whatever criteria and then i made the list and

02:27:42   they sent it but it's just funny because I was already running the Yosemite public

02:27:45   on my actual MacBook because I'm in the developer program and I know how to do it

02:27:49   and I'm not you know I know the risks but I know you know they do it for a good

02:27:53   reason that they don't want you know typical journalists risking you know

02:27:58   screwing up their MacBook by putting a public beta on it sure yeah but I there's

02:28:04   no way they're just gonna ship me this but if they haven't given them out

02:28:07   there's a chance I could get I will not there's no way I'm gonna be able to fly

02:28:11   before April 24th. So if, you know, if there are review units, I don't add it, but I

02:28:18   don't think they're gonna have another event, so I don't think there would be

02:28:20   any reason to fly. So maybe they'll hold briefings in New York like they

02:28:24   sometimes do, and I could do that. So I can take a train, I just can't fly.

02:28:29   Yeah, I mean if they did it separate from an event, because normally they do these

02:28:32   things away from an event, right? So if they are at an event, rather, so if

02:28:36   they're doing it away from an event, it would be a similar thing to when they

02:28:40   held briefings in New York for whatever it was, Mavericks or whatever.

02:28:45   Yeah, I think it was Mavericks.

02:28:46   Yeah, and there was a bunch of people invited to that and they just made the trip to the

02:28:48   city from wherever they were, or if they were in the city they came, and there was several

02:28:53   scheduled throughout the day.

02:28:54   So they could feasibly do that, but it would seem to me that it would limit their ability

02:29:00   to talk to the people or give them to the people that they wanted to, because I'm sure

02:29:05   that reviewers are scattered everywhere.

02:29:06   It's not just journalists.

02:29:07   I have – I would be insanely shocked if they gave an addition to a journalist and

02:29:13   not to a watchmaker – or not a watchmaker, but a watch reviewer, right?

02:29:17   Like a high-end fashion reviewer or watch reviewer.

02:29:21   I could see them giving an addition model to them to evaluate from that perspective.

02:29:26   I actually see two new areas where I would be surprised if they don't.

02:29:31   I would say it's dead certain.

02:29:34   The one I would bet money on is that they will seed review units to fashion people,

02:29:39   like Vogue or, you know, I don't know enough about the fashion world to say who would get

02:29:44   them, you know, but like Vogue, GQ, magazines like that from the fashion world.

02:29:52   But that's not necessarily the watch world, not like the watch world, you know, like the

02:29:56   Ben Climer, Houdini-type guys.

02:29:57   But I think they'll probably seed them to them too.

02:30:00   But I think it's more certain that they'd give it to the fashion people and a little

02:30:03   less certain that they'd give it to the watch people because i feel like the watch people are

02:30:06   still sort of there's a sort of you know this is interesting but it's not really a watch watch

02:30:12   because you know it's the mechanics of a mechanical watch that are so big a part of the obsession

02:30:18   and everything else is ancillary it's really the movements and and that creation of that that

02:30:23   we're interested in yes but i don't know i i but i if i had to bet though i'd bet a little bit less

02:30:28   than the fashion people but i would bet they'd give it to them too because the one thing that

02:30:31   is mechanical are the bands and I know just from talking to Ben Clymer at the last event they're

02:30:36   super super interesting to the watch people because they've really you know in a lot of ways like the

02:30:41   modern buckle and the link bracelet they've really like shown up the watch world you know if the if

02:30:48   the link bracelet holds up and there's a question about that because link bracelets you know

02:30:52   traditionally it's called stretch where if you get like an old you know older Rolex's suffer if

02:30:58   If you buy like a vintage Rolex, usually the band is it the the bracelet is loose

02:31:04   It jangles a little just because over time, you know, it just the the connections between the links get stretched

02:31:11   and

02:31:13   The companies like Rolex and and Omega, you know

02:31:15   The higher-end ones have gotten good at that over the years and they make bracelets that last a lot longer now

02:31:20   Apple's brand new at this

02:31:22   So there's a question as to whether the link bracelet one year later is going to still be just as tight as it was when you

02:31:28   bought it

02:31:30   But the engineering that went into it is insane assuming that it is though

02:31:33   They've they've totally shown them up like the way that you can adjust it and take links off without a special tool is

02:31:39   groundbreaking and the clasp is way better the clasp on the Apple link bracelet is way better than

02:31:46   Mechanically is it then in terms of cleverness than the clasp on a Rolex?

02:31:51   Mm-hmm. Yeah, so that's that's why I think they'll probably give it to the watch people

02:31:55   I think the watch people will probably spend more time writing about the bracelets than they will the

02:31:59   the software mmm

02:32:02   So, I know I really it's so funny that they held this event that I

02:32:08   Went into it thinking that they were gonna answer just about all my questions and they honestly they I I feel like they answered almost

02:32:14   None of them really I mean or at least fewer than half

02:32:17   I still have no idea when they're gonna see review units if they're I feel like they have to right they're not gonna let this

02:32:22   Thing ship without having anybody review it. I mean that was that would look so the optics would look so bad

02:32:27   It's like when they release a movie and they they don't the review embargo drops the day before and everybody's like, oh, yeah

02:32:33   This is gonna be great, right?

02:32:35   Yeah, that would be it would be it would it would be yeah

02:32:39   Cuz cuz if they don't give review unit and I just say this saying not take myself out of it

02:32:44   I don't feel entitled to one. I don't know. I never know whether I'm going to get a review or not.

02:32:49   My guess that I might is only based on the fact that I've gotten review units of everything for

02:32:54   the last few years. But if it ever stopped, if I just never get a call and April 10th and 24th come

02:33:01   and go, I'll just buy one. I did just fine in the years before I got review units. I'll just buy one

02:33:07   and evaluate it. But I'm going to write about it either way. It's just a question of when the

02:33:12   the review will come out.

02:33:13   And everybody else will.

02:33:15   Like that'll be true for every public.

02:33:16   Everybody who wants to review the Apple Watch

02:33:18   is gonna review it whether they have to wait

02:33:20   to buy one April 24th or not.

02:33:22   So I can't see why they wouldn't give review units if,

02:33:25   you know, but when and how, total mystery.

02:33:29   - Right. - So crazy.

02:33:30   - I mean the thing to me about it,

02:33:32   the reason that the more timing makes sense

02:33:34   is because it is a new category,

02:33:35   you have to think about it a little differently.

02:33:37   And if they give people more time to think on it,

02:33:41   I think that they'll be better off because if they did wait and just everybody bought one and evaluated it

02:33:46   Everybody's gonna be in this mad rush to write about it and they mean

02:33:51   If Apple feels that you need to live with it

02:33:54   To let it simmer before you start to see the value in it

02:33:57   Then they make sense for them to give you more time your that's such a good point

02:34:01   I didn't even think about that because I'm never in a rush to be first

02:34:04   So I wasn't even thinking that but so many other people are you're right

02:34:08   What'll happen if they don't see the review units is people will buy it like when the Apple store opens on

02:34:14   April 24th or noon or whenever they say they're gonna start selling them and they're gonna try to publish a review like two hours later

02:34:20   Oh sure. Yeah, it'll be a rush

02:34:22   I mean just speaking of somebody who is it?

02:34:24   Yeah

02:34:24   we're at a different position like the instant the embargo drops like we are under pressure to publish because

02:34:30   That initial that the capture of initial attention, you know, that's that's important to a publication, right?

02:34:37   And so everybody's going to be rushing to get that and if there is no holds barred like no embargo

02:34:43   Everybody's just gonna be pushing willy or nilly. They're gonna be publishing all kinds of wackadoo

02:34:48   Hack job reviews, right and like, you know, I give my my writers just for context

02:34:53   I give my writers permission to publish whenever they want on this stuff. I don't I'm not sitting there over their shoulder

02:34:58   Are you done with this? We got to publish one of the embargo drops

02:35:00   Usually it's ready because like Daryl usually does our reviews

02:35:02   He does a great job and he's very conscientious and and takes care of business, right?

02:35:07   But my philosophy on it is publish when it's ready, not when everybody else is.

02:35:12   And like last time I published my review like the next day or something, right?

02:35:16   And I'm totally fine with that, 100% philosophically, but a lot of publications are not at all, right?

02:35:22   They are like, "Get it out now, immediately, I don't care what state it's in, finish it."

02:35:26   and so you're only gonna exacerbate that issue if you

02:35:30   Just let it drop and everybody just rushes to crap out like hack jobs about the watch. Yeah, it'll be curious

02:35:39   So I'm curious to see I'm gonna assume that they will

02:35:41   Seed review unit. It'll be curious to see whether it's

02:35:45   more limited than usual because they want to be careful about who has reviews for the

02:35:50   Embargo dropping whenever their embargo dates gonna be I presume typically it's like the Tuesday or Wednesday

02:35:55   Wednesday before the Friday that they ship, or if it'll be more, you know, like not more

02:36:03   inclusive than usual, but as inclusive as the iPhones and iPads have been lately, where

02:36:08   they've really cast a wider net, which I think strategically is sort of like the new

02:36:15   open Apple, and I think it is a little bit, it's confidence in the products, and that

02:36:20   they – it's actually to me less risky because if they're confident in the product,

02:36:26   then the consensus of the reviews will get it right and one bad review won't sink it.

02:36:32   Whereas, to me it's dangerous to do it like they did with the original iPhone, like where

02:36:36   there were only – I think there were only four people who had review units.

02:36:39   There was Pogue, Mossberg.

02:36:43   Steven Levy had one for Newsweek and I think Ed Beg for USA Today.

02:36:48   I'm not sure about it, Ed.

02:36:50   But those are the only four people, I think, who had review units for the original iPhone.

02:36:56   So if even one of them had had a bad experience with it, that would have been like 25 percent

02:37:01   of the reviews were, "This thing's no good."

02:37:03   Yeah, their Rotten Tomatoes score goes way down, right?

02:37:06   But if you have 70 people doing it and three of them didn't like it, it's no big deal.

02:37:10   Right.

02:37:11   So I don't know.

02:37:12   I'd be curious to see.

02:37:13   But I feel like they're so different in so many ways these days that it's fun, but

02:37:18   it means it's a lot harder to predict. I guess we should wrap up, but one thing we haven't

02:37:23   even touched on is the addition.

02:37:25   Oh, geez. Yeah. What do you think? I'll let you kick that off. What do you think?

02:37:32   Well, I think I was right.

02:37:34   Yeah, you were. You nailed the—I mean, you guessed 10,000 for starting, right?

02:37:39   Right. I think I talked myself down from it with the rubber band because I'm still confused

02:37:46   by this, but that it just seems to me so incongruous that a $10,000 watch would have effectively

02:37:52   the same band as the $400 one. Yes, I know that the pin is made out of solid gold. But

02:37:58   it just seems like a weird play to me that they didn't do what I thought they might

02:38:03   do, which is have a gold link bracelet and a gold Milanese and charge for them.

02:38:08   Jared: Maybe they just aren't ready or maybe they couldn't execute on them?

02:38:11   Or maybe, you know, maybe they're not.

02:38:13   Maybe the people who are speculating that maybe the gold is too hard to work into those

02:38:17   shapes are true.

02:38:18   I don't know.

02:38:19   But it just seems to me like they're leaving money on the table.

02:38:21   If anything, though, it means that my pricing was actually low because if they do come out

02:38:25   with a link bracelet in gold, I think it's going to be 30,000 or maybe 40, not 20.

02:38:32   Because they're charging 17 for the modern buckle.

02:38:37   That modern buckle, the more I look at it.

02:38:39   I mean, I know this is like the most obvious statement in the world, but that red leather

02:38:44   with yellow gold is so clearly aimed at China.

02:38:50   There might be women all over the world who are itching to get that because it's a cool-looking

02:38:55   thing.

02:38:56   But I mean, it's like literally the colors of the Chinese flag.

02:38:58   I mean, everything, you know, like Chinese New Year is, you know, everything's red and

02:39:01   gold.

02:39:02   That is so clearly aimed at China.

02:39:04   If you had to ask me what the primary market for the edition is, it's not rich people in

02:39:08   America. It's rich people in China. That's my opinion, right? That's just one person's

02:39:14   opinion so don't, this is not some grand pronouncement, but I really think that a significant portion

02:39:18   of edition sales will be there and I think Apple expects them to be there because there

02:39:23   is money in China and there is an intense focus on status and this concept of like face,

02:39:29   of having, you know, status through possessions and through gifts and that sort of thing.

02:39:34   So I think that there's definitely going to be an enormous market for it there. I don't

02:39:37   think it's just rich dudes in America who want to show off status I think it's

02:39:41   rich rich I shouldn't say dudes but rich people everywhere they want to show off

02:39:45   status you know and I think that that is there's gonna be a big market for it

02:39:48   outside of the the billionaires who want to pronounce their billionaire ness here

02:39:55   you know it's gonna be everywhere yeah and it's you know it's definitely a

02:39:58   cultural difference to where you know here there's an awful I they're

02:40:04   definitely gonna sell some in the United States no doubt I mean they're gonna

02:40:06   sell some everywhere, but in terms of what it says when you see somebody who's wearing one,

02:40:11   a lot of people, and I'm sure the tech-minded audience of this show, there's a lot of people

02:40:16   out there who are listening to us speak right now who are going to think exactly what I'm going to

02:40:20   say, which is, let's say you're out, you see somebody at the bar next to you, and you see,

02:40:25   "Holy shit, that's a gold Apple Watch," and your first thought is going to be, "Dooch bag."

02:40:29   Exactly.

02:40:32   In Asia though, it's not the case. It's, you know, ostentatious displays of wealth have a

02:40:37   different cultural connotation than they do here.

02:40:40   Right.

02:40:40   It's like the concept of fitness, how that's changed. Like in Roman times, if you were fit,

02:40:46   that meant you were a field worker, right? And if you were, you know, relatively, you know,

02:40:51   corpulent or full-figured as a man or a woman, that meant you had leisure time and you had the

02:40:57   wealth to have other people do your manual labor for you. And you know

02:41:01   and to have the ability you know food itself you know was a luxury. Mm-hmm

02:41:05   mm-hmm right. Totally I agree with that. I thought it was I thought it was almost

02:41:13   baffling how little they talked about addition and I did. Yeah it was. I really do and I

02:41:19   hate to say this because I could be totally wrong this is 100% speculation

02:41:24   on my part, but I sense conflict and internal conflict and disarray among their ranks with

02:41:32   regard to how little they talked about it.

02:41:34   Because it clearly was not cut for time.

02:41:36   The event was only 88 minutes long, and two hours is the limit on an Apple event.

02:41:41   I mean, that's, you know, obviously if they wanted to go more than two hours, they could.

02:41:44   But I know that internally they shoot for two hours or less.

02:41:47   And like the September event clocked in at exactly two hours, and that was, you know,

02:41:51   clipped stuff. It was very, very, very clipped in terms of, you know, we have to do three things,

02:41:57   these new phones, Apple Pay, and the watch, and we've got to squeeze you two in at the end.

02:42:02   [Laughter]

02:42:03   It was hard and they, you know--

02:42:04   Jared: You have to touch fingers at the end.

02:42:05   [Laughter]

02:42:06   Ted: But they could've. And so, for example, this, it, they talked about sport and then they had a

02:42:13   little Johnny Ive video talking about how they make the aluminum. Then they talked about Apple Watch

02:42:17   and they had a little Johnny Ive video talking about the steel. And then Tim Cook said, you know,

02:42:23   like three sentences about addition and then the event was over. There is a video, it's on Apple's

02:42:28   website. There's a video the exact same style of Johnny Ive talking about how they make the gold.

02:42:33   I mean, why they didn't show that in the event is baffling to me. Like, why not brag? If you're

02:42:39   going to brag about how you made some aluminum, why in the world wouldn't you brag about how you

02:42:42   you made the gold. I cannot help but feel that there is some kind of disagreement there

02:42:47   about the messaging. Exactly along the lines of what us on the outside have been saying

02:42:51   all along that this seems like it's not, you know, selling $17,000 watches doesn't

02:42:57   seem like Apple.

02:42:58   Exactly.

02:42:59   Yeah.

02:43:00   And, I mean, my argument on it is that if you have a gold watch that works exactly the

02:43:07   same as a lower end watch, then there's two ways to look at it. You can look at it

02:43:11   from the person who buys the aluminum and says that gold watch works exactly the same

02:43:16   as mine, that person who bought it is an idiot, right?

02:43:19   Or you can be the person who has the money to buy the gold watch.

02:43:23   I don't ascribe to this whole false argument like, "Oh, you could buy this or you could

02:43:28   contribute to charity," because anybody who has this kind of money can spend money

02:43:30   on anything they want.

02:43:32   This is not a person who scrimps and saves $10,000 to buy a watch.

02:43:36   This is a person who for $10,000 is maybe not throwaway money, but it's certainly

02:43:40   not a problem to spend this kind of money, right?

02:43:44   So they buy this watch and they put it on and it works exactly the same as the lower

02:43:47   end one, but they look at the person with the aluminum and go, "Oh, I'm so glad I could

02:43:52   afford the gold."

02:43:53   And I think that what that comes down to is you've got this argument both ways, up and

02:43:57   down, and it comes down to how it makes you feel.

02:44:00   That's the pro argument for having the gold.

02:44:04   If it makes you feel better, wear it.

02:44:06   It works exactly the same as the other one, so we're not short-changing the person who

02:44:09   can only afford the aluminum. You know, the people are saying, "Oh, well, if it had another

02:44:13   sensor or another this or another that, I would buy it. I would spend more money on

02:44:17   it." But to me, that would be anti-Apple. That would be a very un-Apple thing to do,

02:44:23   to make the one whose materials were more expensive work better as well. And instead,

02:44:32   you know, they're saying, "No, you can buy whatever you want. It's up to you. Here you

02:44:36   go."

02:44:37   I I I you know as my my predictions have been high for the price of addition all along

02:44:43   and

02:44:45   I've not been opposed to it in and of itself just because the price is high

02:44:49   Because to me the people who are so upset about it and feel like that it's a sign that Apple has changed

02:44:58   Inevitably, you know for the worse as a company and that they don't stand for what they used to stand all of those arguments to me

02:45:04   All sound as though the Apple watch sport doesn't exist

02:45:08   you know like if this and quite frankly given the

02:45:13   550 dollar starting price for the steel I

02:45:17   Actually think it would be fine

02:45:19   Then if the sport didn't if the sport didn't exist this year and the starting price was the 540 the 550

02:45:26   $600 steel version I actually think that's not bad either because that's you know

02:45:30   That's where like the iPhone started at $600. But the fact is there is one for three hundred and fifty four hundred dollars

02:45:37   and so I don't understand the the argument that it's

02:45:40   That the price of the gold one alone is any kind of a bad sign because like you and again

02:45:45   Because they're functionally equivalent. I feel like it's egalitarian downright. I

02:45:49   Am NOT put off by the price at all

02:45:52   I don't I don't you know, I think they're gonna sell them and why not?

02:45:54   I think they're you know, it's interesting and I don't think they had to I think that if they had

02:45:59   Likewise if they had shipped Apple watch and never done the gold one and the most expensive model was the space black steel one

02:46:05   That would have been fine, too. I don't think anybody would say they've botched it

02:46:09   I think it's interesting but the price doesn't bother me and I I bothered by the fact that they seem

02:46:16   Uncomfortable talking about mm-hmm. Mm-hmm that there are two minds about it, right?

02:46:20   Yeah

02:46:21   Like if you're gonna do it own it like if you're gonna offer gold

02:46:25   fancy model because you want it to appeal to people who have this amount of money to spend.

02:46:31   Just say some people like nicer things, some nicer metals, or maybe not even nicer is the

02:46:37   wrong word for it, but whatever. Some people like these materials, so we're offering it.

02:46:40   But don't be ashamed of it. Right? So a lot of people have been saying to me,

02:46:46   with my $10,000 starting price, two arguments I heard. One of them was somebody, a couple people

02:46:53   told me, you know, you know this because you're in San Francisco, or you know, TechCrunch is in

02:46:58   San Francisco, but you know that there's a lot of Apple employees have been spotted wearing Apple

02:47:02   Watch for the last couple months out and about. And I've gotten emails from people who've seen

02:47:07   people wearing gold ones. So they're like, well, that's obviously not going to be $10,000 because

02:47:13   what company would give an employee a $10,000 watch to wear as a test unit? And my answer to

02:47:19   them is always Apple. **Ezra Klein:**

02:47:22   Right exactly like that was not proof that the thing was not ten dollars like apple has some money, you know

02:47:28   Yeah, and also apples cost is not ten thousand dollars. Like the watch doesn't cause nine thousand dollars to make

02:47:35   But

02:47:38   The other thing that people have said is well, how are they gonna announce that price?

02:47:44   You really think Tim Cook's gonna stand in front of a slide that reads nine nine nine nine and also it's interesting to me

02:47:49   I should have predicted that they're not going with nine nine nine nine pricing. It's ten thousand dollars

02:47:54   So yeah, I mean thousand very deliberate very soon as I saw that I the first thing I did is I opened up a tab

02:47:59   I went to Tiffany calm and started browsing around and that's how Tiffany charges to like if you buy a

02:48:05   $17,000 bracelet at Tiffany, it's one seven zero zero zero. No and every other watch is nine nine nine zero zero

02:48:12   Yeah, or nine zero zero like every other watch they offer on Apple watches, but the additions are not right

02:48:19   I should have predicted that once you you know at that level the unit is not the dollar the unit is the thousand dollar

02:48:26   It's how many thousand dollars and that's just the unit that people who are gonna buy that thinking

02:48:32   But the answer is he didn't stand in front of a slide with any prices

02:48:38   He just said it and it was I think it was awkward. I think it was terribly awkward. Mm-hmm

02:48:44   You know what? I would have been better if I mean

02:48:47   I know the the name addition was supposed to evoke the fact that this was a special edition

02:48:52   But they should have really just labeled it a special edition

02:48:55   Like we don't know how long we're gonna offer it. It's exclusive

02:48:58   It's limited quantities, but we loved the process so much that we had to write such a brilliant way to put it

02:49:04   That's perfect. Michael. All right, Matthew

02:49:06   But yeah, I just think it would have a lot of the issues, you know, that's perfect framing though

02:49:14   That is absolutely spot-on perfect framing. We loved it so much. We've loved this. We love this material

02:49:19   We wanted to share it with you, you know and that materials video if you watch the goal

02:49:24   I'm sure you've watched the gold one. I mean it is insane

02:49:26   They mill it out of a block of gold just like they do the aluminum

02:49:30   Whereas like almost all these other watches are cast I think yeah. Yeah, but yeah, it's it's a crazy process. So they should have just

02:49:37   stood on the process, which ironically is what they did like with the MacBook when they went all

02:49:43   aluminum, remember originally the unibody, they stood on top of the process and said,

02:49:47   we're charging this much for this thing because look at all this effort we put into it.

02:49:51   Yeah.

02:49:52   And so they could have done the same thing here. And I think there was a missed opportunity there

02:49:55   for them just to say, this is a separate thing. It's special. It's expensive. All these other

02:50:03   things do the exact same thing, but we just wanted you to see this awesome thing we were

02:50:07   able to construct, and we think you might enjoy it too. And if you do, you can buy it

02:50:11   for this much.

02:50:12   Yeah. And just the last bit of confusion over this is he did say it'll be limited quantities,

02:50:22   and then all he said is it'll be available in select retail stores. And that's it in

02:50:27   terms of where. Now, we know about these pop-up stores that they're putting in like Paris

02:50:32   and I think London too that are not Apple stores they're just gonna be like

02:50:37   standalone boutiques where you're gonna buy Apple watch but no explanation as to

02:50:43   what that means does that mean select Apple stores he didn't say select Apple

02:50:47   stores he said select retail stores and that's crazy but it looks like it is and

02:50:52   then further craziness it looks like they're going to sell them on online

02:50:57   yeah I mean it says select their select buttons right when you go to the buy

02:51:01   watch by the additions. So it seems like you could buy them online. So why the select retail

02:51:08   stores, right? And my only thought is they have a limited quantity and they can only

02:51:12   allocate so they're not going to send one watch to every store. Instead they're going

02:51:16   to send their additions to the store, this store, and this store. So my feeling on it,

02:51:21   and I don't know any about this, but it'll be flagship Apple stores and then retail partners

02:51:26   that are high-end, like, you know, whatever Tiffany, not Tiffany's, but you know, those

02:51:30   retailers that offer other brands goods

02:51:35   yeah it's possible uh... i doubt that they're going to do it with tiffany but

02:51:39   tiffany has sold like rolex is in the past they don't right now i think the

02:51:43   only watches you can get it tiffany or tiffany ones but in the past they've had

02:51:46   rolex is but then

02:51:47   but then it's like they're they're stamped on the dial like they're you

02:51:50   know collectors items because there's you know there's a

02:51:53   limited number of them

02:51:54   right at tiffany's edition rolex or whatever

02:51:57   uh...

02:51:59   i wonder too

02:52:00   I wonder too whether addition with these partners, whether there is an as yet undisclosed thing

02:52:06   where they will have their own bands like a like this is toss out Burberry.

02:52:12   You know that maybe Burberry will sell Apple watch edition in limited locations and you'll

02:52:18   be able to get a band that's designed by Burberry instead of Apple.

02:52:22   Wow.

02:52:23   I mean that would play the exclusivity game even further, right?

02:52:27   And then all of a sudden Tiffany might make sense too, because then maybe Tiffany would

02:52:31   do like a Tiffany blue leather band or something like that.

02:52:34   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean I think it's unindubitable. Indubitable? Indoubtable? Whatever.

02:52:39   Wow.

02:52:40   You can't doubt. I don't know. We have been podcasting for a long time. But I don't think

02:52:44   that there's a doubt in anybody's mind that we're going to get third party bands at some

02:52:48   point, right? And there's some question about whether or not there's going to be like an

02:52:51   authorization program or not or whatever. But we're going to get third party bands.

02:52:56   There's no way we're not gonna get high-fashion third-party brands from say Burberry or whatever.

02:53:00   But what about in conjunction with the addition?

02:53:02   That's not something I thought of.

02:53:03   Like what if they do say you can buy it at Tiffany's with the Tiffany band, you can buy

02:53:07   it at Burberry locations with the Burberry band, that kind of thing.

02:53:10   Yeah.

02:53:11   Yeah.

02:53:12   That's, I don't know.

02:53:13   I think that's so crazy though that at the March 9th, I'm not surprised at all that they

02:53:17   didn't, you know, talk much about it back in September.

02:53:20   But I think it's crazy that at this event that they didn't talk about where, what those

02:53:24   select retail locations are because they're not gonna have another event

02:53:27   before this happens is this the first Apple product but not accessory but major

02:53:33   product line that you can't buy it every Apple store yes I cuz I don't I can't

02:53:43   think of anything and I don't even have like a nagging sensation that I'm

02:53:46   forgetting something because they've had special edition iPods and stuff before

02:53:49   but in general those were just available you know at whatever stores until they

02:53:53   out it wasn't like a oh you can only buy it these places right like the u2 ipod or whatever yeah

02:53:59   exactly like oh this store got three of them and then you know we ran out so we can't reorder but

02:54:04   it's not you were never even offered this seems like interesting precedent to set yeah very weird

02:54:10   i thought it was a you know again the pricing in and of itself doesn't bother me it doesn't make me

02:54:15   fear for the company and doesn't but the the messaging around the addition is to me uh it

02:54:21   just suggests that there's a lot they don't know much internally they don't know what to do with

02:54:28   it either yeah or they're up two minds of what to do with yeah i guess people want one thing and

02:54:33   other people want another and the compromise is just don't talk about it a whole lot which is

02:54:38   probably not so great right but it lends credence to the idea that this is johnny ives you know

02:54:45   driven and not something that's coming from the central core of the company. I don't know.

02:54:49   I'll be very interested to see how this plays out.

02:54:53   All right, well, let's wrap it up. I can't think of anything else.

02:54:57   Oh, one thing I will mention, just as an aside, we probably don't need to dissect it a whole lot,

02:55:02   but I think people are going to be really surprised at how much they use the crown.

02:55:05   Oh, definitely.

02:55:06   Versus the screen. Because there's a couple of reasons, but the crown is matched to the

02:55:10   the scrolling rate of the screen extremely well.

02:55:13   So it feels like it's natural how much it accelerates and when it stops the crown is,

02:55:18   they match that really well, which is what Apple does.

02:55:20   So I'm not too surprised, I'm not shocked.

02:55:22   But there's also the fact that when your finger's on the screen, you're covering some of the

02:55:27   screen.

02:55:28   So you're missing some of the data on a very small screen already, which is why I think

02:55:31   the whole crown thing executes well.

02:55:34   So I think that's going to be a big, I think it's going to be, as I talked to a lot of

02:55:38   people were like, "Oh, I never thought that I'd use the crown. I'm just going to scroll

02:55:41   on the screen." But then they go, "Oh, the crown actually is really attractive for these

02:55:46   reasons."

02:55:47   Yeah. I've heard the same thing from people who've been, Apple friends who've been testing

02:55:52   it, that it's totally legit. Definitely a core part of it. I've said this numerous times,

02:56:00   but I keep getting questions, so I might as well answer it again, is that what do you

02:56:04   do if you're left-handed? You turn the watch, you take the straps off, put the strap, the

02:56:07   bottom strap on the top and the top strap on the bottom and then you put it on your other wrist and

02:56:11   then your crown is beneath the communication button. You just turn the watch upside down.

02:56:15   But it's like these, it's probably the most frequently asked question I've gotten in the

02:56:21   last three days. Yeah, and because it's muscle memory and you're left-handed, you're always

02:56:25   going to be reaching for the same button in the same location. So it's not like

02:56:28   it's going to throw you. That's just how you use your watch. Yeah.

02:56:30   Yeah. Did you, I see, that's the funny thing is they say that they tightened up the

02:56:36   feel of the crown? I thought the crown felt great in September. I can't even imagine if they've

02:56:41   changed it how much better. Yeah, I mean that's what I had heard, but the crown that I used felt

02:56:45   nice and tight, but it's been so long since September that I can't really tell, you know?

02:56:50   So unfortunately that's one of those things where we won't, I don't know if we'll ever have

02:56:53   empirical evidence. Right. But yeah. I'm not surprised. It feels good. Yeah. Yeah, no.

02:56:57   Because it's been a long time and I'm sure that, you know, I do, I think it's so central to their

02:57:01   concept of how people will use it that the attention that they've poured into it is just

02:57:06   incredible yeah they're fine-tuning right down to the last second before they

02:57:09   commit

02:57:11   uh... so matthew panzerino people who can uh... reader work your fine work at

02:57:15   uh... tech crunch where you uh...

02:57:19   way more frequently than i do

02:57:22   uh... but you do a great job and on uh... twitter you were username is at

02:57:26   panzer p_n_ z_e_r_

02:57:29   i got upset

02:57:31   anything else you wanna pitch

02:57:32   no not really

02:57:35   No.

02:57:36   All right.

02:57:37   I'm not a very pitchy kind of person.

02:57:38   Thank you for your time recording this show.

02:57:41   Thank you even more for your attention during the event on Monday being my go-to.

02:57:47   Let me text you questions.

02:57:48   My pleasure.

02:57:49   Anytime.

02:57:50   Thanks for having me.

02:57:51   I appreciate it.

02:57:52   Yeah.

02:57:53   All right.

02:57:54   I'll talk to you soon.