The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► fashionably late as always it's pretty good for me yeah eight minutes you guys

00:00:09 ◼   ► you guys do the live thing on ATP so you've got to be on time because people

00:00:12 ◼   ► are sitting there and refresh on that on the website that's not why we're on time

00:00:19 ◼   ► why are you on time self-respect I guess standards right we're East Coast people

00:00:27 ◼   ► You're a East Coast person too. You're supposed to be representing for us instead. You're you going to Las Vegas mode. I

00:00:33 ◼   ► Don't think it's that bad, but it is sort of a West Coast personality trait

00:00:38 ◼   ► now the West Coast move which is also your move is like

00:00:42 ◼   ► Nine o'clock rolls around or whatever time we're doing and you realize oh, I forgot about that and you immediately

00:00:48 ◼   ► Petition for a 15 minute delay and then you have a five minute delay after the 15 minute delay

00:00:57 ◼   ► It's all right

00:00:58 ◼   ► Makes you endearing. Oh, you sound like you're in a good mood

00:01:01 ◼   ► Yeah, sure. Sure. Why not busy week?

00:01:05 ◼   ► So I finished listening to now probably an episode behind though because you guys probably recorded last night

00:01:13 ◼   ► For context we are recording right now. It's Thursday, October 23rd

00:01:19 ◼   ► You guys probably did an ATP last night, but it's not out yet

00:01:22 ◼   ► so I might be behind but I did listen to last week's show where you talked about your

00:01:26 ◼   ► Yosemite review. We talked more about it yesterday in yesterday's episode as well.

00:01:32 ◼   ► Well I'll try not to, well if we venture into duplicating the same story

00:01:37 ◼   ► territory you can just interrupt me and say you know what listen to ATP because

00:01:40 ◼   ► I want to do you know it's no use wasting people's time. I'll say the same

00:01:44 ◼   ► things twice I don't care like the thing with all podcasts is and you know this

00:01:48 ◼   ► is kind of like it's like a first draft over your thoughts are and you just kind

00:01:52 ◼   ► of on the spot and then you start thinking about it and you start talking

00:01:55 ◼   ► about it, and you know, at least I do. I kind of ramble, and it's like, given time to think

00:01:59 ◼   ► about that, like, I think I could say that again better, and then obviously the ultimate

00:02:03 ◼   ► is you're like, oh, if I'm actually going to write it, I've got to actually figure out

00:02:05 ◼   ► what I really think. But just sort of, you know, anyway, duplication I don't mind. Give

00:02:10 ◼   ► me a second chance to get it right.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Yeah, totally. In a big picture, I was thinking about this. I don't know why, because I guess

00:02:17 ◼   ► it's just the way the human mind works. But somehow 10.10 feels like a milestone, you

00:02:23 ◼   ► it's like 10 even though it's not you know it's actually the 11th major

00:02:28 ◼   ► version and it's the 12th I guess that you've reviewed because you did the

00:02:31 ◼   ► public beta how many how many Mac OS 10 reviews have you done so so I did

00:02:36 ◼   ► developer preview to developer preview 3 developer preview for public beta and

00:02:40 ◼   ► then all the releases and it was also one or two thrown in there they weren't

00:02:44 ◼   ► really reviews they were just like random like hey I just went to Mac world

00:02:47 ◼   ► and here's some more stuff you might want to know about aqua and you know but

00:02:51 ◼   ► If you wanted to go buy the releases I started a DP - because uh yeah, and I don't remember what I think

00:02:57 ◼   ► I played with DB one, but I definitely didn't write it up

00:02:59 ◼   ► So I've been thinking about this and you mentioned this on ATP

00:03:04 ◼   ► I don't want to get all maudlin

00:03:05 ◼   ► But there's a chance you're thinking that maybe this last one that you just published last week might be the last one you're gonna

00:03:09 ◼   ► Do you may not do next year's?

00:03:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I

00:03:14 ◼   ► You know we can get into that a little bit later

00:03:15 ◼   ► But you know just thinking and this nice even round ten number

00:03:19 ◼   ► I do think the podcasts in general and you having been doing one regularly either ATP or

00:03:27 ◼   ► What was your old show called hypercritical

00:03:32 ◼   ► It seems like forever but it's not like when did hypercritical start I think like 2011

00:03:42 ◼   ► Yeah, so it's only a handful of years

00:03:43 ◼   ► But to me there's this huge difference as you know

00:03:47 ◼   ► And you and I got to know each other know when we first started emailing

00:03:50 ◼   ► But it's a long time before we met but we are at least his email before daring fireball started

00:03:55 ◼   ► Because you were working at you were still working. I've told this story in ATP you gave me my first

00:03:59 ◼   ► Copy of BB edit or whatever the current version

00:04:03 ◼   ► It was out then like it previously I had I had convinced work to buy it for my work

00:04:06 ◼   ► But you worked at bare-bones said here you go. Here's a free copy of BB. I was like, oh awesome

00:04:11 ◼   ► No wonder I lasted there so long

00:04:14 ◼   ► He's given away their software

00:04:16 ◼   ► to surefire customers. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, we've known each other since before

00:04:23 ◼   ► there was even Daring Fireball. And it's, you know, our interests are common first name,

00:04:31 ◼   ► are, you know, the fact that we're, I think we're exactly the same age, even 1973.

00:04:35 ◼   ► DEE SMITH Close. You're a year older.

00:04:37 ◼   ► DAVE SMITH I don't look older, though. But I feel like

00:04:43 ◼   ► the universe was destined for us to know each other somehow. It just seems like it. It just

00:04:48 ◼   ► seems like no matter how the dice had been rolled somewhere in the intervening years,

00:04:54 ◼   ► we were going to get to know each other.

00:04:55 ◼   ► It was a small world back then. For the Mac nerds on the web, it was just like we were

00:05:01 ◼   ► all using IE5 and experimenting with CSS and reading Zeldman and hoping Apple doesn't go

00:05:07 ◼   ► out of business. Before that, we were all reading Mac Week, which you talked about on

00:05:12 ◼   ► the last podcast and Mac user and Mac world.

00:05:15 ◼   ► It was such a small world.

00:05:17 ◼   ► If we had both gone to the same Mac world conference,

00:05:20 ◼   ► we probably would have bumped into it.

00:05:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's almost certain

00:05:22 ◼   ► 'cause they were small back then.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Or it was, you would inevitably meet everybody.

00:05:28 ◼   ► You wouldn't have that.

00:05:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, you would see the same people year after year.

00:05:32 ◼   ► - It's not like WWDC where now it's so crazy

00:05:35 ◼   ► and you go and it's like some of your best friends,

00:05:38 ◼   ► you don't even see them.

00:05:38 ◼   ► You're like, "Hey, I didn't even run into so-and-so."

00:05:41 ◼   ► And it's just a very different world.

00:05:45 ◼   ► But as someone who's always been a huge fan of your work

00:05:48 ◼   ► at ours, these massive book-length reviews,

00:05:52 ◼   ► it's such a profound change now that you're podcasting.

00:05:57 ◼   ► Because it used to be that John Siracusa as a brand

00:06:01 ◼   ► was something you got sporadically, almost

00:06:06 ◼   ► on an annual schedule.

00:06:07 ◼   ► You had to wait a year in between.

00:06:08 ◼   ► But when you did, it would be like a massive mainline dose.

00:06:14 ◼   ► How different it is now that you have a weekly outlet and we all get plenty of John Saracusa.

00:06:21 ◼   ► It's so different and it's hard to imagine going back to that.

00:06:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I had for a while at ours when they were doing like staff blogs or whatever, there

00:06:29 ◼   ► was a period and I'm always surprised when I go back and look at it.

00:06:32 ◼   ► Like there was a period where I was blogging as if you want to call it that, pretty regularly

00:06:38 ◼   ► on the staff blog. Like I'm amazed at the number of things I wrote there. I forget what

00:06:41 ◼   ► I even wrote. It's like, you know, it's not the volume that you put out on a regular basis,

00:06:45 ◼   ► but you know how it is where you can't even remember what the hell you wrote because it's

00:06:47 ◼   ► just too much, right? And I, of course I remember all my reviews because those are big punctuated

00:06:52 ◼   ► things and there's a few special stories in between there and retrospectives and I did

00:06:55 ◼   ► like a game review and it's all sorts of crap, you know, but I can remember those. But then

00:06:59 ◼   ► there was just like, at one point I was doing one or two pagers every couple of weeks for

00:07:04 ◼   ► ours and I look back on that body of work and I'm happy with it and I like it, it's

00:07:08 ◼   ► just that like it was never, it was neither fish nor fowl, it wasn't what I do now which

00:07:15 ◼   ► is just sort of ramble on a weekly basis where it's just off the cuff or whatever and it

00:07:18 ◼   ► certainly wasn't the big long lead up to a giant review, it was kind of in betweeny and

00:07:25 ◼   ► I guess podcasting has totally filled that role now because I don't have, you know, Twitter

00:07:29 ◼   ► and plus podcasting have destroyed my ability to blog. Not that I had much of an ability

00:07:34 ◼   ► to do it to begin with, but I may get back into it if I don't do these big reviews anymore.

00:07:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm not sure that you're meant for it. I don't know. I feel like you've found your

00:07:44 ◼   ► thing that is more... I always say to me, in everything in life, in the general world,

00:07:51 ◼   ► it's the extremes where things are most interesting. To me, at Daring Fireball, the best posts

00:07:55 ◼   ► or my linkless ones where I think of just one word to add,

00:07:59 ◼   ► or two words, you know, good luck with that,

00:08:01 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:08:02 ◼   ► Or the big long ones, the thousand, multi-thousand

00:08:07 ◼   ► word pieces.

00:08:07 ◼   ► It's when I have a post that's like 300 words,

00:08:12 ◼   ► then I know I'm in trouble.

00:08:13 ◼   ► That I've, you know, I either should be able to make

00:08:16 ◼   ► this point much more succinctly, or I'm being lazy

00:08:19 ◼   ► and I need to go deeper.

00:08:21 ◼   ► And I feel like with you, it's, you know,

00:08:24 ◼   ► you found your, I'm not gonna spend a lot of time

00:08:28 ◼   ► on this format and it's podcasting.

00:08:30 ◼   ► - It's not even that I'm not gonna spend all the time,

00:08:33 ◼   ► but it's just sort of more like less prepared.

00:08:35 ◼   ► It's like more thinking out loud

00:08:37 ◼   ► and going back and forth.

00:08:38 ◼   ► And the blog format, like if I didn't have an actual

00:08:41 ◼   ► regular day job that took my time,

00:08:43 ◼   ► I think the thing I like about that is not so much

00:08:45 ◼   ► that any individual post is anything special,

00:08:48 ◼   ► but that you sort of build up a body of work

00:08:50 ◼   ► with like little reference points.

00:08:52 ◼   ► Like very frequently I find myself thinking back to,

00:08:56 ◼   ► you know, I wish I had something

00:08:59 ◼   ► that I could point to about this.

00:09:00 ◼   ► And podcasting, as you know, it's harder to like,

00:09:02 ◼   ► it's harder to ask people to go,

00:09:04 ◼   ► oh, go back to this thing.

00:09:05 ◼   ► And like, you have to give them a timestamp

00:09:07 ◼   ► and you have to look it up

00:09:07 ◼   ► and find out where everything is.

00:09:08 ◼   ► Whereas if I could just point to a blog post,

00:09:10 ◼   ► oh, I talked about this specific issue in a one pager

00:09:13 ◼   ► and you can get my take on it there.

00:09:14 ◼   ► And individual one pagers, not a big deal,

00:09:17 ◼   ► one or two pagers, but now that there's, you know,

00:09:19 ◼   ► I have a few of them on hypercritical.co.

00:09:21 ◼   ► I refer to them frequently and a lot of times I wish the things I had said and worked out on a podcast

00:09:26 ◼   ► I mean you do the same thing and so does Marco depend, you know, you either

00:09:29 ◼   ► write about it first and talk about it on a podcast or talk about it first and that becomes a post for your website and

00:09:35 ◼   ► I find it frustrating that I can't

00:09:38 ◼   ► Point that like that podcasts are so invisible like they're they're ephemeral and you can't like point people into them

00:09:45 ◼   ► It seems like asking more than just having them read a paragraph or two on a web page that you send them

00:09:50 ◼   ► So I do wish I had more time to blog who knows if I even well

00:09:54 ◼   ► I don't know like I'm not not forcing myself to do it or whatever, but I think a lot of the reason that

00:09:59 ◼   ► You know this is kind of where the blog entailed off once that the OS 10 releases started coming out yearly

00:10:04 ◼   ► At first it was like there would just be a quiet period where I wouldn't write anything because I'm just doing the review and then

00:10:10 ◼   ► That quiet period expanded to like fill the whole year and so it's like well

00:10:12 ◼   ► I guess all I'm doing now is Twitter and worrying about writing my reviews

00:10:19 ◼   ► Well said

00:10:21 ◼   ► How do you have you how many words was your Yosemite review I think I asked you this last or two

00:10:29 ◼   ► It's like the same you didn't read my about post because you follow too many people on Twitter

00:10:34 ◼   ► It's like the same like this it was last year. I can't look at the number. It's on like 26 K 27 K

00:10:40 ◼   ► Something like that hyper is that a hyper critical

00:10:42 ◼   ► Yeah, is that a co co the calm guy wants too much money?

00:10:47 ◼   ► Oh, man.

00:10:50 ◼   ► Well, that's what we got for the Vesper.

00:10:51 ◼   ► We got the .co.

00:10:52 ◼   ► Somehow it reads right.

00:10:55 ◼   ► Somehow top level domains are such a weird thing.

00:10:58 ◼   ► Because A, the whole thing is so gross

00:11:00 ◼   ► and never should have been exposed to end users anyway.

00:11:03 ◼   ► It's like file name extensions.

00:11:05 ◼   ► But they've become part of the world we live in.

00:11:11 ◼   ► .com is just invisible.

00:11:13 ◼   ► Somebody has whatever .com, and it's like the nothing domain.

00:11:17 ◼   ► Even though getting a dot com is incredibly difficult,

00:11:21 ◼   ► because everything was taken by the end of the 90s,

00:11:23 ◼   ► let alone in the intervening years.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Something about dot co, which is,

00:11:28 ◼   ► for people who don't know, it's the nation,

00:11:31 ◼   ► Columbia's top level domain.

00:11:33 ◼   ► It reads like dot com.

00:11:35 ◼   ► And it's like, you notice it, I always notice it.

00:11:37 ◼   ► I always, you know, but it has that same effect

00:11:40 ◼   ► of like, you just accept it.

00:11:42 ◼   ► Like, that's why I couldn't even remember

00:11:43 ◼   ► the hypercritical TLD.

00:11:45 ◼   ► It's kind of like a, you know, web 2.0E like Flickr,

00:11:48 ◼   ► where you leave off the R kind of like com

00:11:50 ◼   ► where you leave off the M kind of a twee sort of precious.

00:11:55 ◼   ► It's that version.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Maybe it really, I just got it because, you know,

00:11:58 ◼   ► all the other extensions for worse.

00:12:00 ◼   ► I'm gonna get .us, you know, .business, .plumbing, whatever.

00:12:08 ◼   ► - They're so bad.

00:12:09 ◼   ► I just, I can't believe some of those.

00:12:14 ◼   ► So anyway, if you went to the site, you'll see that this, it's my, like, the format I've

00:12:18 ◼   ► done for the past three years.

00:12:19 ◼   ► It's just like a template and I just changed the numbers like mad libs.

00:12:22 ◼   ► And at the bottom, there's stats.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Right.

00:12:24 ◼   ► So 27,000 words.

00:12:26 ◼   ► What's the, I think that it's like the average size of a novel is somewhere around 60,000

00:12:31 ◼   ► words, give or take.

00:12:32 ◼   ► So it's, you know, it's truly book length.

00:12:35 ◼   ► And yeah, the weird thing to me is that my review settled in around this 25, 27K size

00:12:42 ◼   ► for the past like three or four not through any conscious effort of my own

00:12:45 ◼   ► but it's just that's how it worked out you know right it's you know it's like

00:12:48 ◼   ► that's about how much work they can do on an annual basis on Mac OS X and it's

00:12:55 ◼   ► like it's more like that's how much I feel like I can or should write because

00:12:59 ◼   ► there's more I could write about and every time I always feel like I

00:13:02 ◼   ► basically ran out of time and I would like to have whole giant sections but I

00:13:05 ◼   ► always like I prioritize them I say well yeah I'm interested in that and I think

00:13:10 ◼   ► I think I could write another few thousand words about it,

00:13:13 ◼   ► but would the value it adds to the review

00:13:15 ◼   ► and the interest it adds to review

00:13:16 ◼   ► be worth the time I put in,

00:13:18 ◼   ► and how much time I've got scheduled for this?

00:13:20 ◼   ► Because really, even though I have so much lead up time

00:13:22 ◼   ► to it, it still kind of compresses at the end,

00:13:24 ◼   ► because there's only so much you can write about

00:13:25 ◼   ► when things don't work and they're broken in a beta

00:13:28 ◼   ► and Apple hasn't made final decisions.

00:13:29 ◼   ► You gotta, the final bits have to come down

00:13:31 ◼   ► and then you have to scramble.

00:13:38 ◼   ► So if we added them all together, what is it?

00:13:42 ◼   ► And I know that the sizes are different

00:13:44 ◼   ► from some of the old ones,

00:13:45 ◼   ► but it's about 15 reviews, right?

00:13:48 ◼   ► If we're talking about,

00:13:48 ◼   ► this is the 11th numbered version,

00:13:50 ◼   ► and you said you did DP2, DP3, DP4, so it's 14 or 15.

00:13:55 ◼   ► It's an enormous body of work.

00:13:58 ◼   ► It really, truly is.

00:13:59 ◼   ► And I know that it's not one single piece of work

00:14:02 ◼   ► that if you read them all back to back,

00:14:04 ◼   ► there's some sort of repetition that would be going on

00:14:07 ◼   ► because they follow a certain formula.

00:14:09 ◼   ► But I do think, I think it's such an interesting testimony

00:14:15 ◼   ► to have and that like 20 years from now

00:14:17 ◼   ► when the youngins take over,

00:14:19 ◼   ► that they'll be out there for them to look at

00:14:22 ◼   ► and remember where things are.

00:14:25 ◼   ► - That's what old people like to think,

00:14:26 ◼   ► but young people won't give a damn.

00:14:28 ◼   ► They already don't.

00:14:29 ◼   ► They'll look back on our great works and tremble.

00:14:33 ◼   ► - How often would we refer to a similarly detailed review

00:14:37 ◼   ► of System 2 from 1985.

00:14:39 ◼   ► - Right, or the Apple 2 OSs or anything like that.

00:14:44 ◼   ► - Somewhere somebody would need it though.

00:14:46 ◼   ► - The thing that's brutal for me though,

00:14:47 ◼   ► is if I ever go back and look at those old ones,

00:14:49 ◼   ► I just, I can't stand it.

00:14:50 ◼   ► Just like, it's terrible.

00:14:51 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know if you feel the same way,

00:14:53 ◼   ► but like I go look at my early writing,

00:14:54 ◼   ► I'm like, holy cow, this is bad.

00:14:56 ◼   ► Like just isn't bad in all ways.

00:14:58 ◼   ► Like, I guess I knew, like it was,

00:15:00 ◼   ► it was certainly more casual back then,

00:15:02 ◼   ► and I was a worse writer,

00:15:03 ◼   ► and the combination of the two was just,

00:15:06 ◼   ► And really, I don't know.

00:15:08 ◼   ► Like, you didn't know what was important and what wasn't.

00:15:10 ◼   ► The things I focused on are just seem inane.

00:15:12 ◼   ► And I have a lot of difficult,

00:15:14 ◼   ► a lot of people ask like, oh, you're gonna go back

00:15:16 ◼   ► and collect all these together into one big thing.

00:15:17 ◼   ► The most painful part of it would be that

00:15:19 ◼   ► if I was to do that and you start reading it,

00:15:21 ◼   ► you're gonna start reading stuff I wrote in 1999

00:15:23 ◼   ► that I think is not good.

00:15:25 ◼   ► It's just not good.

00:15:26 ◼   ► I mean, like, I hope I always feel that way.

00:15:30 ◼   ► I kind of, you know, I kind of feel that way.

00:15:32 ◼   ► Like, you know, you get to a certain point

00:15:34 ◼   ► And I just think everything I write is crap as soon as I write it.

00:15:37 ◼   ► And I just make it as good as I can.

00:15:38 ◼   ► At the time allotted, I didn't move on.

00:15:40 ◼   ► But it's like programming.

00:15:41 ◼   ► Like, if I don't look back at the code I'm writing this year,

00:15:44 ◼   ► like 10 years from now, if I don't look back at the code

00:15:45 ◼   ► I'm writing this year and think it sucks, that means I'm not improving.

00:15:47 ◼   ► Right.

00:15:48 ◼   ► I can totally see that.

00:15:51 ◼   ► I look back.

00:15:52 ◼   ► I did learn this.

00:15:53 ◼   ► And there's a-- I'm going to get it wrong.

00:15:56 ◼   ► I think it was one of the great titans of modern computer science,

00:16:01 ◼   ► either Kernighan or Richie or one of those Bell Labs guys who said something about that

00:16:06 ◼   ► debugging is twice as hard as programming.

00:16:09 ◼   ► So if you write code as cleverly as you possibly can, you'll never be able to debug it because

00:16:16 ◼   ► you need an intellect twice as great.

00:16:20 ◼   ► You need to write your own code like you're a halfwit so that when you debug it or when

00:16:25 ◼   ► you've...

00:16:26 ◼   ► For me personally, it's when I return to it that I can understand what the hell is going

00:16:30 ◼   ► on.

00:16:31 ◼   ► I know that saying, and I understand the sentiment behind it, but the logic and the saying makes

00:16:34 ◼   ► no sense, and it's mostly BS in the details. But in broad strokes, trying to say the idea is that

00:16:40 ◼   ► later you will come back to your own code and not understand it, and that is entirely true. And so

00:16:46 ◼   ► what he's trying to say is to mitigate that. Don't make your life harder by doing things that are

00:16:52 ◼   ► difficult to understand even now when you're in the midst of it.

00:16:55 ◼   ► Right. And it totally informed my use of comments. Is my comments, I used to only write, of course,

00:17:04 ◼   ► because I was a teenager and early 20s. And so, of course, I didn't want to write any comments at all.

00:17:10 ◼   ► And I only did it because when my CS professors, you had to. If you submitted your work without

00:17:16 ◼   ► comments, it was something you automatically lose like 10 points. So, the comments were stupid. I

00:17:23 ◼   ► I would just write the smart ass teenager's comments,

00:17:27 ◼   ► which is just restating the logic of each line.

00:17:30 ◼   ► - Add one to all. - Right, exactly.

00:17:33 ◼   ► Whereas the light that went on,

00:17:35 ◼   ► even though I don't write much code anymore,

00:17:37 ◼   ► but the light that went on eventually was

00:17:41 ◼   ► comments are like time travel.

00:17:43 ◼   ► You're talking to your future self

00:17:45 ◼   ► who is utterly confused as to why you would do this seeming,

00:17:49 ◼   ► this doesn't seem like it's necessary.

00:17:52 ◼   ► Tell your future self, here's why you're doing this

00:17:54 ◼   ► and why you wanna keep doing it.

00:17:56 ◼   ► And it's made my code, at least for my own self-maintenance,

00:17:59 ◼   ► it's made it all the difference in the world.

00:18:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's a couple phases of that.

00:18:03 ◼   ► Like the early phases, everyone thinks I don't need comments

00:18:05 ◼   ► 'cause I'm writing this now and I understand it

00:18:07 ◼   ► and I'll understand it in the future.

00:18:08 ◼   ► And the second phase is realizing that's not the case

00:18:11 ◼   ► and you start trying to write comments

00:18:12 ◼   ► but you don't know what good comments are.

00:18:13 ◼   ► And I think the third phase is finally realizing

00:18:16 ◼   ► that if you write the code in a sensible way,

00:18:19 ◼   ► you only need comments on the tricky parts

00:18:20 ◼   ► and you should minimize that.

00:18:21 ◼   ► And when you do need a comment on the tricky part,

00:18:24 ◼   ► you'll know how to write it in a way that will be illuminating

00:18:27 ◼   ► rather than stupid.

00:18:27 ◼   ► Yeah, either the tricky part where

00:18:29 ◼   ► you're doing something pretty clever

00:18:30 ◼   ► and a month goes by, it's going to be out of your head

00:18:34 ◼   ► how you pulled that off because you're in the zone.

00:18:36 ◼   ► Or for me, a lot of times, it's the you're

00:18:40 ◼   ► working around something stupid.

00:18:42 ◼   ► And the workaround makes-- if you

00:18:43 ◼   ► didn't know about the stupid thing,

00:18:45 ◼   ► the workaround looks like it's why would you ever do this?

00:18:49 ◼   ► This is dumb.

00:18:49 ◼   ► Just don't do that.

00:18:52 ◼   ► - And writing for your future self

00:18:53 ◼   ► is easier than writing for other people

00:18:55 ◼   ► because if you're in an organization

00:18:56 ◼   ► where you're programming, there's lots of other programmers,

00:18:58 ◼   ► at the very least, when you're writing for yourself,

00:19:00 ◼   ► you can retrace your steps

00:19:03 ◼   ► and you will arrive at the same conclusion again,

00:19:05 ◼   ► but other people won't do that

00:19:06 ◼   ► because they react differently

00:19:08 ◼   ► to the same stimulus, basically.

00:19:10 ◼   ► So for other people, what you're trying to do is,

00:19:13 ◼   ► yours is the one where you put the whys,

00:19:14 ◼   ► but also what is the broader context of this whole thing?

00:19:17 ◼   ► What is even going on here?

00:19:19 ◼   ► Are there any assumptions that are unstated because you assume they're obvious to everybody,

00:19:23 ◼   ► but won't be obvious to someone a year from now?

00:19:28 ◼   ► Writing comments is just basically writing.

00:19:30 ◼   ► It's the same, you have to communicate to people in plain language with reduced ambiguity.

00:19:34 ◼   ► It's a different goal, a different purpose, a different audience, but it is writing, and

00:19:37 ◼   ► that's why programmers are so bad at it, because those skill sets tend to not cluster frequently

00:19:42 ◼   ► where people who are happy and comfortable programming are not happy and comfortable

00:19:46 ◼   ► writing prose.

00:19:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess it's true that a lot of times they're not.

00:19:50 ◼   ► But there seems to be... I know...

00:19:52 ◼   ► Because we hang out with Mac nerds. We're at the intersection of liberal arts.

00:19:56 ◼   ► We know all the programmers who are good writers.

00:19:59 ◼   ► Like Brent's a great example. Rich...

00:20:02 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I know. I mean, we know people because we read their blogs. That's how we know.

00:20:06 ◼   ► Rich Segal is another great example. Man, when he... he doesn't write much, but when he does,

00:20:10 ◼   ► it is so succinct and to the point and it's exquisite.

00:20:15 ◼   ► exquisite like I I often refer back I have a copy of the the BB edit 2.2

00:20:20 ◼   ► manual like the first public version of BB edit and it's it's just like a model

00:20:27 ◼   ► of clarity it is such a good piece of technical writing did he write that one

00:20:32 ◼   ► pretty well I know he wrote parts in there was a couple of other credits up

00:20:36 ◼   ► front but there's a and there's like a little what would you would call a blog

00:20:39 ◼   ► Post now I sort of like why does BB edit exist? Why why why on the Mac would you you know want a programmer's text editor?

00:20:47 ◼   ► Who would ever want to edit more than 32 K of text?

00:20:51 ◼   ► It's more it's a more of like a personal statement like a mission statement for BB edit and

00:20:57 ◼   ► It's just terrific I should actually see if he'd let me maybe I'd see if I can

00:21:04 ◼   ► Rerun it or something. I think it would be an interesting especially now that BB at 11th out. Maybe I should

00:21:08 ◼   ► See about getting it on the internet somewhere because I think it stands up

00:21:12 ◼   ► Low these yeah, oh these many years in

00:21:16 ◼   ► operating systems later

00:21:19 ◼   ► All the stuff he writes if you've met him

00:21:21 ◼   ► You can't help but read it always because very

00:21:25 ◼   ► Such a person the mannerisms and the pacing of the way he would say those things it comes through in the writing

00:21:30 ◼   ► I just saw somebody tweeted tweeted tweeted that the other day

00:21:33 ◼   ► I don't know if it was to both me and you but to a couple of us where they were like now that we all have

00:21:37 ◼   ► Podcasts they can't help but read everything we write in our own voices

00:21:41 ◼   ► And I always hear that and I it's kind of nice because it means they're like listening to a lot of our podcast

00:21:46 ◼   ► But I also kind of cringe because it's like God writing is where I get to be better

00:21:49 ◼   ► How I speak I want to sound way smarter when I write because I got all this runway, and I could you know

00:21:54 ◼   ► Speaking who knows what the hell comes out, but writing like that's my chance right and so it's almost a shame

00:22:00 ◼   ► that they know, you know, the stumbling idiots that are behind the words. Like, writing is a secret

00:22:05 ◼   ► weapon. I got all the time in the world to figure out what this sentence is going to be.

00:22:07 ◼   ► Yeah, and there's no wasted words and no stupid...

00:22:10 ◼   ► Well, ideally, I mean, obviously, like, again, that's the thing with long reviews. At a certain

00:22:14 ◼   ► point, that's got to be like... That's the thing about these long reviews and all this stuff, like,

00:22:17 ◼   ► early on and still to this day in my OS X reviews, I'm a slave to getting out whatever idea it is in

00:22:26 ◼   ► in my head. I have a point to make or something to say about something and I

00:22:30 ◼   ► have like 17 points to make and 17 things to say about it and I want to get

00:22:34 ◼   ► them all out and I sacrifice the quality of the writing many times because I'm

00:22:39 ◼   ► like this this could be said more elegantly in a different way but it

00:22:43 ◼   ► wouldn't have this one extra little bit of nuance and I talked to myself like

00:22:47 ◼   ► what do you care that that one like this point is sufficient you don't need to go

00:22:51 ◼   ► into this other detail it's like no I want it and so I make some awkward

00:22:54 ◼   ► sentence and I put that other point in there and it's I hate myself for doing

00:22:58 ◼   ► it but a lot of times it's like the overriding thing is say what I wanted to

00:23:03 ◼   ► say and then secondarily try to say it in a reasonable way and that's not

00:23:07 ◼   ► that's not the way to make good writing but that's a lot of times what I do in

00:23:11 ◼   ► my OS 10 reviews let's take a break I am going to thank our first sponsor back

00:23:17 ◼   ► for a second time it's our good friends at Casper now you guys might remember

00:23:21 ◼   ► from a few episodes ago. I think it was the one with the Chalkenberry, but Casper

00:23:28 ◼   ► was a sponsor and had a great response. Craziest idea. When I first heard this

00:23:33 ◼   ► craziest idea in the world. It's you go online. It's high quality mattresses like

00:23:38 ◼   ► the ones you put on your bed at really really good prices. Seems like a crazy

00:23:42 ◼   ► thing to buy on the internet like but in terms eventually we're gonna buy

00:23:46 ◼   ► everything on the internet. We're gonna buy cars on the internet. You go there

00:23:51 ◼   ► They have it's it's two technologies. They call it just the right sink just the right bounce

00:23:56 ◼   ► It's two different technologies latex foam and memory foam that they put together. It's like a special combination

00:24:02 ◼   ► That they've done just right. You don't have to sit there

00:24:06 ◼   ► There's not a whole bunch of different things you have to choose from they they they did it for us

00:24:10 ◼   ► They're the mattress experts. They've designed a really good mattress

00:24:13 ◼   ► I've had regular I've tried not I don't own one

00:24:17 ◼   ► But I've tried a regular memory foam mattress before and I found them way too like weird the way that they they make an indentation

00:24:23 ◼   ► Perfect for your body. It feels like I'm making a crime scene or something

00:24:27 ◼   ► Their mattress isn't like that at all is just enough of that memory stuff that it's comfortable

00:24:31 ◼   ► But it doesn't you don't feel like you're sinking into it

00:24:34 ◼   ► It's it's crazy

00:24:37 ◼   ► Did you get one of these John or did was it Casey who got it for ATP?

00:24:41 ◼   ► Casey got what we were thinking of getting one just because we need a mattress peer

00:24:44 ◼   ► So they sent me one this is what they do when they sponsor a show they send one to you and it's like well

00:24:49 ◼   ► How does a mattress show up? Well, it shows up in like a little dorm room fridge style box very small

00:24:55 ◼   ► You can't believe it but it's because it's like two kinds of foam

00:24:59 ◼   ► They like vacuum seal the mattress and it ships in what is still decidedly a very large package

00:25:05 ◼   ► it is way smaller than a

00:25:07 ◼   ► a

00:25:10 ◼   ► Mattress so put it in the room when you're gonna sleep in it then open the box

00:25:14 ◼   ► They've got instructions that tell you exactly how to do it and let let it let it expand but it works. It is absolutely amazing

00:25:20 ◼   ► It works. It's

00:25:22 ◼   ► Feels like a great mattress. I really like it

00:25:24 ◼   ► And the prices are so much less than the prices you pay for

00:25:30 ◼   ► Mattresses out in the real world. It's ridiculous because the whole mattress industry is

00:25:35 ◼   ► It's just that it's just like the Warby Park your story all over again where it's like it's like a cartel that come

00:25:41 ◼   ► You know controls the whole industry

00:25:43 ◼   ► They deliberately make it very very difficult to comparison shop across stores because each store even if it's from the same brand like Sealy

00:25:51 ◼   ► They have like six different Sealy's the next store you go to has six different Sealy's and they all have different names

00:25:56 ◼   ► even though they're technically the same mattress because they do this to make it really hard for you to

00:26:01 ◼   ► comparison shop and know whether you're paying a good price or not.

00:26:05 ◼   ► Casper cuts out all that crap and they just sell you great mattresses at a good price.

00:26:11 ◼   ► Typical price for a new mattress is well over $1,500.

00:26:14 ◼   ► Casper mattresses cost between $500, that's the twin size, and $950 for a king size mattress.

00:26:21 ◼   ► $950 under $1,000 for a top tier mattress.

00:26:25 ◼   ► You save hundreds and hundreds of dollars and it's completely risk free.

00:26:30 ◼   ► have free delivery and returns within a hundred day period so three months to

00:26:37 ◼   ► sleep on the thing and if you don't like it they'll pay to send it back no idea

00:26:42 ◼   ► how that works I kept mine I'm not quite sure how how sending the full-size

00:26:47 ◼   ► mattress works but they take care of it for you and I believe it risk-free oh and

00:26:55 ◼   ► the last point I want to make I think this is great made in America made in

00:26:58 ◼   ► American mattresses so where do you go to find out more apparently a whole

00:27:02 ◼   ► bunch of you guys bought mattresses the last time their sponsorship brand

00:27:05 ◼   ► totally encourage you if you need a new mattress check them out go to www.casper

00:27:11 ◼   ► Casper sleep.com Casper sleep.com slash talk show now use that code that talk

00:27:22 ◼   ► show code and you will save 50 bucks off there are already low prices on any

00:27:28 ◼   ► mattress that you buy. So you'll save an extra 50 bucks and they're going to

00:27:33 ◼   ► donate 50 bucks to a charity of my choice and that's I'll do the same

00:27:38 ◼   ► charity I did the last time the food and allergy and flags network that my son

00:27:44 ◼   ► and wife raised a lot of money for food allergies for kids great charity that's

00:27:49 ◼   ► all on them great mattresses go check them out at

00:27:53 ◼   ► caspersleep.com/talkshow.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Mattresses on the internet.

00:28:00 ◼   ► What the hell is next?

00:28:02 ◼   ► You know what else?

00:28:03 ◼   ► People are already buying cars on the internet.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess so.

00:28:06 ◼   ► You can't buy new cars on the internet, though, can you?

00:28:09 ◼   ► I think so.

00:28:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:28:12 ◼   ► Speaking of big boxes showing up, my iMac showed up today.

00:28:15 ◼   ► So I started-- I ordered it day one.

00:28:19 ◼   ► So it must have been a week ago.

00:28:21 ◼   ► Of course, I got a bill to order.

00:28:24 ◼   ► And it said three to five days.

00:28:27 ◼   ► And it had a target ship date of October 24 to 28.

00:28:31 ◼   ► And I think it was a wide range because it was over a weekend.

00:28:36 ◼   ► I did pay, I think it was like $30 for expedited shipping.

00:28:39 ◼   ► So I checked last night before I went to bed.

00:28:41 ◼   ► And it said, I got a notice that my iMac was ready.

00:28:45 ◼   ► And it was in China.

00:28:48 ◼   ► And then at 10 o'clock in the morning,

00:28:49 ◼   ► Today, my doorbell rang and it was here.

00:28:52 ◼   ► So from when I went to bed last night, it was in China,

00:28:54 ◼   ► and at 10 a.m., it was at my door, which is crazy.

00:28:58 ◼   ► - The magic of air travel.

00:29:01 ◼   ► - I can't help but think that when they told me

00:29:03 ◼   ► it was in China, it was already really over the Pacific,

00:29:05 ◼   ► but still, it's kind of astounding.

00:29:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, a lot of people have been getting there.

00:29:09 ◼   ► I've been seeing everybody tweeting pictures

00:29:11 ◼   ► of their boxes arriving, so the first batch came quickly.

00:29:14 ◼   ► - Everybody wants to know, I guess I could talk about it.

00:29:19 ◼   ► I guess I'll write a review eventually but I don't buy Macs very often and then you even mention this on ATP like I just

00:29:27 ◼   ► just now replaced a 2008 MacBook Pro that I had

00:29:31 ◼   ► Upgraded to an SSD at some point which which gave it a couple more years of life, but it was really really

00:29:37 ◼   ► aging

00:29:40 ◼   ► And my desktop display as you know, it's it's it's like a 2004 20 inch cinema display

00:29:48 ◼   ► Yeah, this is a serious, you know for as reckless as I am buying a new iPhone every single year

00:29:54 ◼   ► I'm the opposite with max

00:29:55 ◼   ► I'd I like to get one max it out and then use it until it's until it's ridiculously old

00:30:02 ◼   ► Now you're gonna find out if you have any glare in that room because I'm looking at the 23 inch version of that and it's matte

00:30:07 ◼   ► And you know, but you don't know if you have any serious glare issues if you've been using a matte screen for the past

00:30:12 ◼   ► However, many years you'll find out now if you see your face when you sit down in front of you right now

00:30:17 ◼   ► Mac yeah that was that's one of those things where I think they've gotten

00:30:20 ◼   ► better at it and I know that it's and it's the sort of thing you can write

00:30:24 ◼   ► about and they can advertise but you really have to see it the anti glare the

00:30:27 ◼   ► thing that they've done with the new iPad air is pretty interesting but I

00:30:31 ◼   ► want to know why didn't they do it to the new iMac - yeah it's not it's not

00:30:35 ◼   ► laminated well I think I think the reason that in laminate is you know I

00:30:38 ◼   ► assume is maybe it's just too hard to laminate something I think but you know

00:30:41 ◼   ► you know how it is you take the glass off and then the screen is behind it if

00:30:44 ◼   ► they laminated them together I guess you would like take the screen off when you

00:30:48 ◼   ► opened it up and then you'd have to like disconnect the ribbon cables or whatever

00:30:51 ◼   ► it just maybe you'd make it weird to disassemble I don't know but anyway yeah

00:30:54 ◼   ► and it's definitely not laminated together and so you've got that air gap

00:30:57 ◼   ► which increases the glare and also that's where the dust gets caught if you

00:31:00 ◼   ► ever have to bring another thing to get service yeah those are two of two two pet

00:31:04 ◼   ► peeves that you and I share together I do not like glare on my displays and I

00:31:08 ◼   ► do not like machine noise. So I'm pretty satisfied. I'm pretty sure that it's going to be... I

00:31:16 ◼   ► didn't take it out of the box yet. I had too much to do today, so I wasn't even ready for

00:31:20 ◼   ► it. But I'm pretty excited that it's not going to be noisy. I'm a little worried about the

00:31:25 ◼   ► glare.

00:31:26 ◼   ► I've kind of made my peace with the glare because I have the Apple 24-inch display at

00:31:31 ◼   ► work. The first one that was kind of like the iMac type screen where it's... It looks

00:31:36 ◼   ► like the Thunderbolt display but 24 inches and it was it predates it but

00:31:40 ◼   ► it's got the same thing air gap and the screen and I'm in an office with you

00:31:44 ◼   ► know fluorescent lights and also other things and there are reflection things

00:31:47 ◼   ► but the compared to all my co-workers displays which are like these Dell or

00:31:51 ◼   ► Viewsonic things or even like their their laptop displays and stuff just the

00:31:57 ◼   ► brightness and viewing angle like that the ridiculous brightness that these

00:31:59 ◼   ► things have the LED backlit screens you never crank them up to the brightness in

00:32:03 ◼   ► regular house but in an office setting where just you know the fluorescent

00:32:06 ◼   ► lights are everywhere and it's all super bright the ability to crank your screen

00:32:09 ◼   ► up can really power through any other sort of glare and it's just it's so much

00:32:14 ◼   ► easier to see things in my screen than anybody who is around me I look at their

00:32:17 ◼   ► screens and you can't see a thing because I mean because the viewing

00:32:20 ◼   ► angles are bad because everything is so dim and muddy so there are advantages to

00:32:25 ◼   ► this this type of design where it's just crystal clear piece of glass and a super

00:32:29 ◼   ► bright screen behind it worst case you can just crank it up again of course my

00:32:33 ◼   ► My wife has a Thunderbolt display right behind me and I look at that all the time.

00:32:36 ◼   ► That looks really nice too.

00:32:37 ◼   ► So I think I'm going to be okay with a screen like the one you've got on your iMac if I

00:32:41 ◼   ► ever get it.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Yeah, and the other thing that makes me feel pretty good about it is I'm okay with the

00:32:45 ◼   ► glare on the current MacBooks.

00:32:48 ◼   ► Like at least the retina one that I have now.

00:32:50 ◼   ► Those are laminated too though, aren't they?

00:32:51 ◼   ► Oh, I didn't think so.

00:32:52 ◼   ► The most recent retina.

00:32:53 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:32:54 ◼   ► Maybe they are.

00:32:55 ◼   ► Oh.

00:32:56 ◼   ► I think they are.

00:32:57 ◼   ► I think that my first impression when they first had the retina 15-inch like back at

00:33:01 ◼   ► WWC and we're looking to Jason snails or whatever it was like the colors were like up on the surface of the screen the same

00:33:06 ◼   ► Type of thing you got with the iPhone 4 right? Yeah, that's my guess. Maybe that's how they keep the

00:33:11 ◼   ► whole lid so thin

00:33:13 ◼   ► Because it's you know, seriously seriously thin

00:33:17 ◼   ► Well, I still feel like that though

00:33:19 ◼   ► I I remember when it was sort of a I don't know how many years it was

00:33:23 ◼   ► I would say maybe in my mind it was around a three or four year period where

00:33:28 ◼   ► there was like this great divide between, for laptops at least, glossy and matte displays.

00:33:38 ◼   ► And Apple stuck with matte, and the whole PC industry went glossy. And every time I go,

00:33:44 ◼   ► like in a Starbucks or something, and I'd see people using, you know, Windows PCs,

00:33:48 ◼   ► I would just be flabbergasted at how like reflective their displays are. And then Apple

00:33:55 ◼   ► Started offering it was like a choice

00:33:57 ◼   ► What do you think it was about a you maybe the two or three years where we you when you'd buy a new?

00:34:02 ◼   ► You know it's probably the power book era

00:34:04 ◼   ► I guess there wasn't even Mac books yet, but you'd get a choice between matte and glossy

00:34:09 ◼   ► And that's one of those things where I never hesitated for a second. It was of course. I want matte I

00:34:14 ◼   ► Think I question can remember this I know what the PC people did for their glossy ones is they didn't do what Apple?

00:34:21 ◼   ► has come to do now which is have a

00:34:23 ◼   ► clear piece of glass

00:34:25 ◼   ► on top of an LCD screen.

00:34:28 ◼   ► I think maybe Apple's first glossy screens, but certainly also the PC glossy screens that sort of kicked off the thing,

00:34:34 ◼   ► were plastic-y, but it was like super shiny plastic. I don't know if it was polycarbonate or something like that, but

00:34:40 ◼   ► it had kind of like a sticky, wavy kind of look instead of what you get from a piece of glass, which is, you know, dead flat and like stiff, you know what I mean?

00:34:49 ◼   ► And that made the screens look not only shiny, but also cheap.

00:34:53 ◼   ► And I seem to recall Apple's first glossy displays being like that too, and that's why it was like,

00:34:57 ◼   ► "Who in the world would ever want that? It just looks awful."

00:35:00 ◼   ► When they switched to the big piece of glass, a big heavy piece of glass, and it made the lids heavier,

00:35:05 ◼   ► and it wasn't great, and it was a huge air gap, at least that looked a little bit classier to me,

00:35:10 ◼   ► like more, Johnny Ive would say, more honest materials, you know?

00:35:13 ◼   ► Like, when they finally sort of honed in, "Oh yeah, aluminum and glass, we're gonna do that for a few years,"

00:35:19 ◼   ► that settled things down a little bit.

00:35:20 ◼   ► But but even then and a lot of people who got the matte display just just for reflection reasons

00:35:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I totally did

00:35:28 ◼   ► It's just funny though

00:35:30 ◼   ► That's that that used to be a thing and I'm still you know because my display my desktop display is so ancient

00:35:36 ◼   ► I think it's literally 10 years old

00:35:38 ◼   ► If I didn't buy it in 2004 it was soon after

00:35:42 ◼   ► It's you know it's like a relic I

00:35:46 ◼   ► Have to say it was money well spent

00:35:49 ◼   ► I don't know how you stayed with 20 inch resolution for all because I I feel myself

00:35:55 ◼   ► Just I wish I could get out of this 23 inch like 1920 by 1200

00:35:59 ◼   ► I that's just like barely big enough to contain me, but I feel boxed in the I always I thought it was too small the whole time

00:36:05 ◼   ► But eventually I got used to it and it you know

00:36:11 ◼   ► It I don't know

00:36:15 ◼   ► Did you pare down like your work environment where you like you don't have as many windows open as you would normally have and just

00:36:20 ◼   ► Kind of try to go into like I'm just gonna have one central window with a text editor and then off to the sidewalk

00:36:24 ◼   ► You know web browser with a bunch of tabs and that's now I you know effectively I wrote it's with a 20 inch display

00:36:29 ◼   ► It's a lot like using just a supersized like the lunch tray

00:36:32 ◼   ► MacBook, you know the seven so do you like to full screen? No, not full screen, but for the most part everything

00:36:39 ◼   ► I'm working on is just in a stack of windows and I have to command tab between them

00:36:42 ◼   ► It's not big enough to do a lot of side by side.

00:36:45 ◼   ► So I'm really looking forward to that with the 27 inch.

00:36:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, now I have over the many years honed

00:36:50 ◼   ► by sort of like layering and positioning system

00:36:53 ◼   ► for my windows, which other people look at

00:36:54 ◼   ► and can't make heads or tails of.

00:36:55 ◼   ► But when I'm constrained and I start to have

00:36:57 ◼   ► a lot of windows, I start running out of places

00:37:00 ◼   ► for the corners to poke out.

00:37:01 ◼   ► Like that's, you know, the system is like,

00:37:02 ◼   ► I've got things in corners and windows sized and shaped

00:37:06 ◼   ► so that I can find a clickable region.

00:37:08 ◼   ► That's just the way I work with Macs, you know,

00:37:11 ◼   ► starting from the 80s

00:37:12 ◼   ► But when I just have too many damn windows I run out of places to have clickable stuff

00:37:17 ◼   ► And if I ever find myself I can do command tilde not command tab

00:37:20 ◼   ► But command tilde within an app to cycle through the windows

00:37:22 ◼   ► I feel like I've been defeated by the lack of space so I really I really can't wait to get a 27 inch

00:37:28 ◼   ► equivalent point resolution screen

00:37:31 ◼   ► So I can't review it yet

00:37:33 ◼   ► I literally didn't even take it out of the box

00:37:35 ◼   ► But having seen it at first hand last week

00:37:37 ◼   ► And I know a lot, they're in the stores now too, and I've seen a lot of people who are at least going in to look at them.

00:37:42 ◼   ► It's gorgeous, it really is. I don't rush into it. Like I said, I'm replacing at my desk at least a six-year-old computer and a ten-year-old display.

00:37:53 ◼   ► But I didn't hesitate to buy it on day one.

00:37:57 ◼   ► And I know you guys talked on ATP that it's risky because there's a lot of times first-generation stuff from Apple has kinks to be worked out.

00:38:05 ◼   ► to be worked out.

00:38:06 ◼   ► Image retention, of course, is a huge question mark at this point.

00:38:10 ◼   ► I think Jason said, Jason Snell did Marco's little image retention test and said that

00:38:15 ◼   ► his iMac, which he got already, as well, passed with flying colors.

00:38:19 ◼   ► So it seems clear on that front, unless they're using two manufacturers and he got the…

00:38:22 ◼   ► Right.

00:38:23 ◼   ► And it's in theory that's possible because Snell's is a review unit and they, you know,

00:38:28 ◼   ► I'm almost, I don't know for a fact, but I'm 99.99% sure that they sanity checked

00:38:34 ◼   ► the review unit, you know, that they,

00:38:36 ◼   ► they're not like factory sealed, you know,

00:38:38 ◼   ► that there's a white glove guy who makes sure

00:38:40 ◼   ► that this is a good, you know, there's no--

00:38:42 ◼   ► - Yours aren't factory sealed?

00:38:43 ◼   ► 'Cause I just got, for the first time,

00:38:46 ◼   ► I got a bunch of loaner Apple hardware

00:38:48 ◼   ► for the Yosemite review, and it looked pretty darn

00:38:50 ◼   ► factory sealed right down to the little static link stuff.

00:38:52 ◼   ► - I think they re-wrapped them back up.

00:38:54 ◼   ► - Can you do that? - Yeah.

00:38:56 ◼   ► - Like that was a game, you know, again,

00:38:59 ◼   ► it's a novelty for me to be getting review hardware.

00:39:01 ◼   ► And part of the game I played was,

00:39:03 ◼   ► I'm going to rewrap these things so they look like I didn't take them out

00:39:05 ◼   ► So I saved all the static cling stuff and I put it back on and putting it back on is super hard

00:39:09 ◼   ► Like you can't get it lined up right now. Can you wrap a gift?

00:39:13 ◼   ► Not great it doesn't look it looks when I wrap a gift it looks like dad wrote wrapped it

00:39:20 ◼   ► It does not look like nice and even no matter how much I try I can't I know how to do it now

00:39:27 ◼   ► Now I've reached the age where I know what I need to do to make it look good

00:39:30 ◼   ► But at a certain point I just don't care anymore and like it all comes down to having the right length overhangs

00:39:34 ◼   ► Yeah

00:39:34 ◼   ► If you don't have the right length overhangs no amount of skill and folding is gonna save you and then you realize you don't have

00:39:39 ◼   ► The right overhangs and you try to like trim it while it's wrapped around the thing to make the oh

00:39:42 ◼   ► And then that just gets a ragged edge and you just like you know what screw it fold fold fold, right?

00:39:45 ◼   ► Good there comes a point where you're you set out to make it like I want to wrap one as good as my wife can

00:39:51 ◼   ► Wrap a present but eventually I run into that situation and I think wait

00:39:55 ◼   ► This is just gonna be garbage ten seconds after I give it

00:39:59 ◼   ► Yeah, you don't try to think don't try to think about it while you're doing it

00:40:02 ◼   ► It's like what am I doing here?

00:40:04 ◼   ► Especially when you're wrapping something and it's like a gift for your wife and she already knows what it is

00:40:07 ◼   ► It's like what have we even doing here? But like you just got it's gonna plow ahead bravely

00:40:11 ◼   ► I should just wrap it in the receipt

00:40:13 ◼   ► Remember wrapping things in the funny pages that come yeah, that was some newspaper was a huge thing when we were kids

00:40:21 ◼   ► Nobody does that anymore probably because no one gets newspapers

00:40:24 ◼   ► They would like leave it would leave newsprint all over everything and it was like who does it?

00:40:28 ◼   ► I guess it was just like our parents saving money on wrapping paper. Yeah, I guess or maybe you know

00:40:33 ◼   ► Maybe a little bit of column a saving money and a little bit column B where all of a sudden it's Saturday

00:40:40 ◼   ► I forgot I forgot it was the bird

00:40:42 ◼   ► Yeah, it's well it's Saturday morning and the party is at noon and you remember you have the gift you bought the gift

00:40:49 ◼   ► Did you know target the other day?

00:40:50 ◼   ► But you didn't buy wrapping paper because you thought you still had a closet full of it and you don't and well

00:40:55 ◼   ► We'll just use the Sunday paper

00:40:57 ◼   ► Yeah, but that was definitely I would I would say when I was a kid like lower grade school

00:41:03 ◼   ► I would say probably about a third of all the gifts that I got were wrapped in the Sunday paper Sunday

00:41:08 ◼   ► Well, I I wonder how long we have to go with the school books being wrapped in

00:41:13 ◼   ► Grocery bags. Oh, I remember that for the covers, right?

00:41:17 ◼   ► so I think they still do that but now the big thing and all of the you know, the

00:41:24 ◼   ► Fancy stores like Whole Foods and everything is to have cloth reusable cloth bags

00:41:27 ◼   ► You don't make all that paper waste so I wonder how long those things will be around yeah

00:41:31 ◼   ► How long can you get a paper bag?

00:41:33 ◼   ► Whole Foods gives out paper bags because oh yeah

00:41:35 ◼   ► If you don't if you don't have the little cloth bag because you forgot to put them in the trunk of your car

00:41:39 ◼   ► They give you a dirty look and they put your stuff in a paper bag

00:41:41 ◼   ► Hell yeah, there's like a passive-aggressive. Oh you didn't bring a bag oh

00:41:46 ◼   ► You don't care about the penguins who are gonna choke to death on the bag

00:41:51 ◼   ► I'm gonna put your stuff in well enjoy your $5 avocados

00:41:54 ◼   ► Organic I've heard that if I've heard that if you eat organic produce you cannot get Ebola

00:42:02 ◼   ► Yeah, so there finally is an advantage there's a reason to buy the 89 cents a pound organic bananas instead of the 69 cents a

00:42:11 ◼   ► Pound regular bananas because it'll yeah, it'll immunize you against Ebola

00:42:15 ◼   ► And they all they come with organic fruit flies that will invade your house if you leave them on your counter - they're adorable

00:42:21 ◼   ► They're absolutely adorable fruit flies

00:42:23 ◼   ► I

00:42:29 ◼   ► Might as well take a break and I'll do a second sponsor because it seems like a good a good time to break

00:42:34 ◼   ► But then we'll go back. I want to talk about next last week's event a little bit too before we get into Yosemite

00:42:40 ◼   ► But I want to take a break and thank

00:42:45 ◼   ► One well, I love all sponsors, but I love I love this one a little more than most are good friends at back blaze

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00:43:07 ◼   ► So there must be a bunch of you out here who are listening to me right now

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00:43:42 ◼   ► And you have you know I don't know three terabyte external drive, and it's all filled up

00:43:46 ◼   ► It might take a while for that first backup to get everything up there

00:43:50 ◼   ► Depending on your internet connection at home, but just wait it will

00:43:53 ◼   ► And once it is then from that point forward everything on that Mac stays in sync backed up to their servers

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00:44:07 ◼   ► And the users have just crossed the six billion files restored mark

00:44:12 ◼   ► so when you restore let's say a catastrophe hits and

00:44:16 ◼   ► You lose your whole startup drive and you don't have a backup near local. You don't have a local backup

00:44:23 ◼   ► Well, how you gonna get your whole, you know?

00:44:26 ◼   ► One terabyte drive back what you can just tell them they'll put it on a USB drive for you and then

00:44:32 ◼   ► FedEx the drive to you and then ding-dong the UPS guy is there and you've got a hard drive from them

00:44:38 ◼   ► With all of your stuff on it

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00:45:16 ◼   ► works great with Yosemite -

00:45:18 ◼   ► So last week's event I

00:45:24 ◼   ► I thought it was a little weird.

00:45:28 ◼   ► You guys touched on this on ATP with Phil Schiller.

00:45:32 ◼   ► Was he flat or not?

00:45:34 ◼   ► And I got a bunch of emails and tweets from people who were like, "Hey, what's up with

00:45:37 ◼   ► Phil?

00:45:38 ◼   ► Was he like..."

00:45:39 ◼   ► You know, something seemed wrong with Phil.

00:45:40 ◼   ► You seem distracted is the word I use.

00:45:45 ◼   ► I didn't notice this during the event.

00:45:47 ◼   ► I thought Phil was just Phil.

00:45:49 ◼   ► It's sort of downbeat Phil.

00:45:53 ◼   ► like this is not a big deal Phil and I think it was very deliberate I think it

00:45:59 ◼   ► was sort of low-key maybe I would say I wouldn't say distracted well but he's

00:46:04 ◼   ► always like that to some degree right he's the pace of his speaking and his

00:46:09 ◼   ► presenting style is always a little bit weird like that maybe he was up next to

00:46:15 ◼   ► people who are doing more fake enthusiasm about things or being but I

00:46:19 ◼   ► just he occasionally does seem distracted about stuff sometimes I feel

00:46:22 ◼   ► he's distracted because he's thinking about the next thing he's gonna present, even though

00:46:25 ◼   ► he's been doing this for so long, like that he's thinking about the next thing he's gonna

00:46:29 ◼   ► present, trying to remember the things he's gonna do in the demo or whatever, and he'll

00:46:33 ◼   ► get inside his own head about that, and like, forget to fake enthusiasm about something

00:46:39 ◼   ► that he's seen a million times before.

00:46:41 ◼   ► But it did not stick out to me much, like I mostly just thought it was just, you know,

00:46:47 ◼   ► Phil's a Loki kind of guy and this is the way he presents, and if you've seen it so

00:46:49 ◼   ► much that kind of fades into the wallpaper, but I always occasionally see him kind of

00:46:54 ◼   ► be distracted. I forget if the timing of the thing, was this before or after the road trip

00:47:01 ◼   ► typo thing? No, the demo of the guys who did a typo during the thing and they fixed it

00:47:06 ◼   ► in post, remember that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who made the video editing thing? I forget

00:47:14 ◼   ► if the time, if it was after that, it's like he could have been thinking about that, but

00:47:17 ◼   ► He's like, God, we rehearsed this so many times.

00:47:18 ◼   ► How did we screw up this demo?

00:47:20 ◼   ► But if it was before that, I don't have an explanation.

00:47:23 ◼   ► Yeah, what was the deal with that?

00:47:24 ◼   ► I didn't know that they fixed it in post.

00:47:26 ◼   ► I remember I didn't notice it during the event,

00:47:28 ◼   ► and a lot of people pointed it out.

00:47:29 ◼   ► Was it a Federighi demo where he mistyped road trip?

00:47:32 ◼   ► No, it was like people who--

00:47:34 ◼   ► third-party software developers.

00:47:36 ◼   ► I forget who they are.

00:47:37 ◼   ► And they were showing off their video and they were--

00:47:39 ◼   ► Yeah, and they were not native English speakers.

00:47:42 ◼   ► The guy who was running the demo machine,

00:47:44 ◼   ► he fell victim to autocorrect.

00:47:47 ◼   ► I think it could auto-corrected Utah to its instead of Utah road trip. It was its road trip

00:47:51 ◼   ► And the guy shook his head and was pissed at himself for like falling victim to autocorrect and then just plowed forward with the demo

00:47:58 ◼   ► but then in post they they have somewhat a good YouTube clip of an out analyzing this in post they

00:48:03 ◼   ► rescreen captured the screen image and

00:48:06 ◼   ► Froze his image of himself

00:48:08 ◼   ► Before he does the head shake and then transitioned him at post head shake

00:48:12 ◼   ► It was pretty good at it like this

00:48:14 ◼   ► it's side by side you see the person you see the screen and they more or less seamlessly

00:48:17 ◼   ► made it seem like that did not happen but just fine like okay that's pretty cool it

00:48:21 ◼   ► is shows you that apple sweats the detail oh yeah no like they rehearse it so many times

00:48:26 ◼   ► it's like you could see the autocorrect bubble like we all know autocorrect don't hit spacebar

00:48:31 ◼   ► it's going to complete the it's my favorite little detail i i'm actually it's like to

00:48:38 ◼   ► get the ipad review out i had to shelve it but i still want to write my write a daring

00:48:42 ◼   ► Fireball piece on my thoughts on last week's event.

00:48:46 ◼   ► My favorite little thing, and I'm not surprised, and you won't be surprised, but I had to double

00:48:51 ◼   ► check is that image that they used a couple of times showing a watch, a phone, an iPad,

00:48:59 ◼   ► a Mac, a book, and now the iMac.

00:49:04 ◼   ► I thought clearly an homage to that evolution image, even though it sort of goes the other

00:49:10 ◼   ► way where the Mac was first and these other products you know came later it's

00:49:14 ◼   ► sort of left to right newest to oldest but I thought that was a really telling

00:49:19 ◼   ► image I thought it was especially telling that they used it multiple times

00:49:23 ◼   ► early on with Tim Cook and then like in the wrap-up but I checked and of course

00:49:28 ◼   ► they made two versions of it the first one was with an iPad air original iPad

00:49:35 ◼   ► Air and the one they used at the end when Tim Cook closed the iPad is thinner

00:49:40 ◼   ► And it's no yeah, if you look at him side by side

00:49:42 ◼   ► It's very noticeable that they made a second version with a thinner iPad even though they're only showing them from the side and it

00:49:48 ◼   ► At any given moment it was it was impossible to tell which generation iPad it was because it was from the side

00:49:53 ◼   ► Did they make the iPad the iMac external case proportions change at all?

00:49:58 ◼   ► With the retina

00:50:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I can't tell it because that's the one I would look for replacement

00:50:05 ◼   ► But if they're exactly the same you'll be able to tell like from the side

00:50:07 ◼   ► Yeah, like if they had slimmed it down or maybe you can't tell from that angle. But yeah

00:50:11 ◼   ► They were obviously very proud of that thing. Although when it first came up, I read it as like I

00:50:16 ◼   ► Knew they weren't trying to make it text

00:50:19 ◼   ► But but it kind of looked like I guess Elo had been on my mind that weird social network thing or whatever

00:50:23 ◼   ► It's like this kind of looks like it could be letters

00:50:25 ◼   ► They could spell things out with that if they wanted but that's not what it was

00:50:27 ◼   ► The evolution thing is much closer analogy because it's from you have a hunch thing to the standing up things

00:50:33 ◼   ► You got to put the tallest one on the right even if it's you know, yeah

00:50:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm looking at him now side by side it

00:50:38 ◼   ► they changed the lighting on the iMac in the between the two slides and it makes the

00:50:44 ◼   ► App the the after one it looks a little thinner

00:50:47 ◼   ► but I it looks to me though that it's just that they that they change the lighting and there's

00:50:52 ◼   ► Less of it and more of it's in shadow

00:50:55 ◼   ► It's just a different product like that

00:50:57 ◼   ► It's a different product shot like you know when they when they brought up the new iMac to take a shot of it the lighting

00:51:01 ◼   ► Wasn't the same as when they have that older iMac take a shot of it

00:51:03 ◼   ► so it shows up differently.

00:51:05 ◼   ► I think you linked to a few people talking about this,

00:51:07 ◼   ► and I mostly agree with whatever person you linked to

00:51:09 ◼   ► that was saying like, this is cute and all,

00:51:12 ◼   ► but it doesn't communicate to people

00:51:14 ◼   ► who aren't already on board much of anything

00:51:16 ◼   ► because regular people might not even understand

00:51:19 ◼   ► what they're looking at, let alone which device is which.

00:51:22 ◼   ► Like Apple was clearly excited and proud of it

00:51:25 ◼   ► and we Apple followers and nerds thought it was clever

00:51:27 ◼   ► and interesting and novel because you have to find

00:51:29 ◼   ► some interesting way to show these things

00:51:31 ◼   ► instead of just like, here's all the screens

00:51:32 ◼   ► with black borders that Apple makes.

00:51:34 ◼   ► They come in different sizes, right?

00:51:35 ◼   ► And you know, one of them has a little stand at the end.

00:51:37 ◼   ► So coming up with new and interesting ways

00:51:39 ◼   ► to photograph Apple's product line is a challenge

00:51:42 ◼   ► that is mostly relevant to people who either work at Apple

00:51:46 ◼   ► or who have been following Apple for a long time.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Whereas if you throw that image up

00:51:50 ◼   ► in front of regular people,

00:51:51 ◼   ► I'm not sure how well it will communicate anything

00:51:53 ◼   ► or read to them at all.

00:51:54 ◼   ► But I, you know, the audience for this Apple event,

00:51:56 ◼   ► anyone, this is not the iPhone event.

00:51:58 ◼   ► This is the lesser event in, what was it,

00:52:01 ◼   ► in a town hall or whatever?

00:52:02 ◼   ► small room mostly of interest to Apple follower so it was the appropriate venue

00:52:08 ◼   ► for that image but I'm not sure how well it reads there yeah I don't think it

00:52:11 ◼   ► that's why I found it interesting because there's two parts to the to the

00:52:16 ◼   ► Apple presentations not necessarily two halves but there's two types of messages

00:52:21 ◼   ► they seek to convey some are for the mass market and they sometimes even

00:52:25 ◼   ► showed that actual commercials that they're going to put on real TV they'll

00:52:28 ◼   ► just show the commercial right there. So it's exactly what they're going to be

00:52:33 ◼   ► pushing in their marketing to hundreds of millions of real people through

00:52:38 ◼   ► advertising. But then other parts are the as close as Apple will get to inside

00:52:43 ◼   ► baseball. And that's meant for like us in the media who are then going to you know

00:52:52 ◼   ► it's it's it's like they're playing a bank shot. They're trying to get us to

00:52:56 ◼   ► Understand them so that when we write about them to the mass market that we're going to have it

00:53:03 ◼   ► Right that we we see what Apple is seen

00:53:05 ◼   ► Yeah, they're gonna emphasize the parts that they think will tickle our the fancy of the Apple fans

00:53:12 ◼   ► Like they're going to show you the video about the manufacturing process and emphasize the beauty of one particular physical feature

00:53:17 ◼   ► So that in the hopes that when you write you review that feature that you might have overlooked you'll say well

00:53:22 ◼   ► I just they showed this whole five-minute video of a factory and Johnny I've in his white world talking about it and

00:53:27 ◼   ► Suddenly that's more prominent in your mind. It's just basically basic, you know talking to the press type of things

00:53:32 ◼   ► But they will they're never going to show that video of the Mac Pro factory to regular people

00:53:37 ◼   ► They don't care about the macro at all period and and certainly not how or where it's built

00:53:41 ◼   ► They're all the things they did about the unibody or whatever

00:53:43 ◼   ► Like they can say it's unibody and they can give the thing out or whatever

00:53:46 ◼   ► But they're gonna show those

00:53:47 ◼   ► those computer controlled milling machines

00:53:49 ◼   ► with the water going over them

00:53:51 ◼   ► and just talk about it forever.

00:53:52 ◼   ► Like when they came out with the MacBook Air

00:53:53 ◼   ► and then to the subsequent unit bodies,

00:53:55 ◼   ► they really hammered on that

00:53:56 ◼   ► to try to get the message across to the press

00:53:58 ◼   ► who would then get the message across that,

00:54:00 ◼   ► hey, I know you understand what unit body is

00:54:02 ◼   ► and I know you're gonna see it's one piece and blah, blah,

00:54:04 ◼   ► blah, but it actually makes a difference

00:54:06 ◼   ► and it's a big deal.

00:54:07 ◼   ► And that's the bank shot,

00:54:09 ◼   ► five minute video on CNC milling machines.

00:54:12 ◼   ► And that hopefully translates to a little bit extra emphasis

00:54:15 ◼   ► when the first unit body product

00:54:16 ◼   ► not in the consumer facing product reviews.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Another I just I love this image and I think another answer somebody compared it somebody

00:54:24 ◼   ► on Twitter compared it to one from one of the recent events that Microsoft had for like

00:54:31 ◼   ► the surface probably the surface pro 3 event and they had a table lined up in their hands

00:54:36 ◼   ► on area with Nokia phones and surface pros and some of them on the table and some of

00:54:44 ◼   ► them in a laptop stand and desktop computers and laptop computers, you know, up to the,

00:54:49 ◼   ► you know, whatever the HP equivalent of an iMac is.

00:54:53 ◼   ► All of them running exactly the same start screen, you know, this blue, you know, blue

00:54:59 ◼   ► colored, whatever they, whatever they renamed Metro interface, you know, and that what a

00:55:04 ◼   ► country, you know, it's a philosophical contrast where, you know, Microsoft went in this direction

00:55:09 ◼   ► where you get the exact same interface across phone from phone to you know 30

00:55:14 ◼   ► inch desktop display and Apple you know when it ends is you know reiterated this

00:55:21 ◼   ► year you know that each each of these devices gets an interface that is just

00:55:25 ◼   ► for that form factor and include you know making them very different and you

00:55:31 ◼   ► know we can even talk about when we still move get into your Yosemite

00:55:34 ◼   ► review the way that Yosemite is clearly inspired by the direction that iOS 7

00:55:39 ◼   ► went but it's it even at a glance just if you've been tuned out for six months

00:55:45 ◼   ► and still haven't even seen Yosemite and you took a look at it right now you

00:55:48 ◼   ► wouldn't think oh they copied iOS 7 that it's you know the exact same thing it's

00:55:53 ◼   ► different it's a family resemblance but it's like a brother or cousin it is not

00:55:58 ◼   ► an identical twin. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, like a sibling, not a twin. And I think showing

00:56:05 ◼   ► these devices in this promotional image for us, you know, this press image where you don't

00:56:08 ◼   ► even see the display, is in a strange way emphasizes that what you would see on the

00:56:15 ◼   ► displays are very different across them. And also think, and I think this is always interesting

00:56:21 ◼   ► to me and I try to think about it, is what are the things that Apple is trying to convey

00:56:26 ◼   ► to us that they can't bring themselves to say for various reasons because it's

00:56:32 ◼   ► you know they just couldn't say that and to me this one of the things with this

00:56:36 ◼   ► image in a way that they spoke about it is that they don't expect or even want

00:56:44 ◼   ► everybody to buy everything you're not supposed to have an iMac and a MacBook

00:56:48 ◼   ► and an iPad and an iPad mini and you know a phone and a watch if you do great

00:56:55 ◼   ► You know, you're a great customer, but if you just have two of them, that's great

00:57:00 ◼   ► You know, maybe you have this, you know, like the iPhone 6 plus and because it's a huge phone

00:57:06 ◼   ► you feel like now I don't need an iPad and

00:57:08 ◼   ► Your only other product is a MacBook and you just use that MacBook everywhere use it at your desk

00:57:14 ◼   ► You use it when you travel and that's it. You're a that's a perfect you're a perfectly

00:57:21 ◼   ► Encourage that's that's that's absolutely encouraged, but they can't say that they can't say it's okay if you don't buy this

00:57:27 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:57:28 ◼   ► It's you you can't get on stage and say you know this cool new iMac that we just showed you it

00:57:32 ◼   ► It's totally fine

00:57:33 ◼   ► If you don't buy it and just use a MacBook

00:57:35 ◼   ► Yeah, we talked about this on an ATP a little while ago about how they even just within the iOS device range

00:57:40 ◼   ► But anyway, you need all them if you see them head-on or whatever again

00:57:42 ◼   ► They all just look like a black border around a color LCD screen of various sizes

00:57:48 ◼   ► But now they really fleshed out the range especially with the watch being a little tiny thing and then you have all the different various sizes

00:57:54 ◼   ► of iPhones and the big one and then the biggest one gets close to the mini and then you have that you know, like it's a

00:57:59 ◼   ► Pretty smooth scale up of rectangular color screens that you can buy from Apple all up to the big giant retina one that you bought

00:58:06 ◼   ► But and as the physical form factors have started to form the smooth scale that they're kind of showing in this image here

00:58:14 ◼   ► There's still discontinuities because what is the difference between an iPhone 6 plus and an iPad one runs iPad apps and one runs?

00:58:23 ◼   ► Phone apps and the line between them, you know

00:58:27 ◼   ► we're saying an ATP is probably going to go away sometime in the near future because that distinction like

00:58:31 ◼   ► If you were to get an iPhone 6 plus go to the App Store and be like, oh I totally want this game

00:58:37 ◼   ► Or this app and they're like, oh sorry you can't this iPad only it's like what do you mean?

00:58:41 ◼   ► I've had only like the iPad isn't that much bigger than the screen. I'm holding my hand

00:58:44 ◼   ► What is it about the thing I'm holding in my hand that means it can't run a quote unquote iPad app

00:58:48 ◼   ► That distinction seems like it's gonna go away

00:58:50 ◼   ► But this the other gap of like you get the you know

00:58:52 ◼   ► The iPad air or if they were coming with like an iPad Pro and then to a MacBook Air which presumably go right into

00:58:57 ◼   ► Why are these so different like well is easier to explain one as a keyboard but they run totally different OS is one is touch

00:59:03 ◼   ► one is not touch

00:59:04 ◼   ► like

00:59:06 ◼   ► They Apple is expecting you to pick your spot in their product line where you feel comfortable because there are

00:59:11 ◼   ► Discontinuity still and I they're never gonna paper over them to the degree that Microsoft does like Oh one OS everywhere

00:59:16 ◼   ► Cuz that's not what Apple believes in but in any kind of

00:59:19 ◼   ► Transition like there's another discontinuity when you go from the phone to the watch because it just has to be it can't work the same

00:59:23 ◼   ► Way, it's just too small or whatever

00:59:25 ◼   ► So these little gaps like if they were to space it out would be like watch

00:59:28 ◼   ► Big gap phone phone phone tiny gap iPad bigger gap laptop even bigger gap

00:59:34 ◼   ► I'm at you know, and you're supposed to pick in that range of like

00:59:38 ◼   ► you know like a Chinese food menu one from column a one from column B like and

00:59:42 ◼   ► Make up the suite of devices that that fill out your life

00:59:46 ◼   ► and I

00:59:46 ◼   ► by having this range

00:59:48 ◼   ► I think obviously someone's not just gonna buy the watch and not have a PC and not have a cell phone like there you're gonna have

00:59:53 ◼   ► Something in this range just which ones do you think you need no one needs to fill in all the gaps

00:59:56 ◼   ► Yeah, and then they but they can't say it that in that way, right and I well

01:00:03 ◼   ► They say it in the way like we have something for every yeah

01:00:05 ◼   ► You know like they just say look at this range like look at the richest of this range

01:00:08 ◼   ► There's surely there is something that fits your needs like we you know

01:00:12 ◼   ► They're fleshing it out like diversifying the iPhone line for the longest time like the iPhone was the iPhone and everybody wanted like

01:00:17 ◼   ► Even now you said is room for diversification of like, you know, make one thicker and have longer battery life or something

01:00:22 ◼   ► But like they've diversified their line to say

01:00:24 ◼   ► Something for everybody and the same way they don't expect you to buy two iPhones like the big one in the small one or your night

01:00:29 ◼   ► Phone or your day phone?

01:00:31 ◼   ► It's the same thing that they don't say that because they think it's obvious but

01:00:35 ◼   ► Just like they're not going to say if you if you buy you know a MacBook Pro

01:00:39 ◼   ► We probably don't expect you to buy an iMac because the mac or pro is a completely fully capable awesome machine

01:00:45 ◼   ► You can do everything on but if you're the kind of person who wants a desktop we will offer one of those two

01:00:50 ◼   ► Yeah

01:00:53 ◼   ► Mac Pro it I some people wrote to me

01:01:02 ◼   ► After the iMac announcement and they're sort of I have obviously they've bought a Mac Pro in the last ten months

01:01:08 ◼   ► And they're angry that the Marco right now Marco, you know did not get angry. He just went out and bought an iMac

01:01:16 ◼   ► But to me that's so totally not surprising

01:01:22 ◼   ► You know that that even though the Mac Pro is a very expensive

01:01:25 ◼   ► Machine and it in theory should always be at the leading edge of technology and it is in a lot of ways

01:01:32 ◼   ► That it didn't go retina first

01:01:35 ◼   ► Or at least simultaneously and probably not even close like I know I have Marco's logic of why he doesn't think a standalone 5k

01:01:43 ◼   ► display is gonna ship from Apple until

01:01:45 ◼   ► 2016 is pretty sound because it there's a lot of I think he's I think it probably does need

01:01:51 ◼   ► DisplayPort slash Thunderbolt, you know 1.3 slash Thunderbolt 3

01:01:56 ◼   ► Because they're not gonna do that. They're not gonna have you run two cables to drive it

01:02:00 ◼   ► Just yeah, I mean that was always obvious that there's an advantage of an all-in-one

01:02:05 ◼   ► The advantage the all-in-one has is they can use whatever the hell interconnect they want inside that box, right?

01:02:09 ◼   ► It doesn't need to conform to any specification

01:02:11 ◼   ► It doesn't need to they could just do what do what you got to do to make it work

01:02:15 ◼   ► It all happens inside the box

01:02:16 ◼   ► and so you're always going to have an advantage for that thing if it happened that a

01:02:20 ◼   ► Standardized external interconnect existed for retina displays in the same time frame as the Mac Pro the Mac Pro would have had it first

01:02:27 ◼   ► Yeah

01:02:27 ◼   ► but it just so happened that it didn't what and then you're like, okay, well, we need to get written out there somehow and

01:02:33 ◼   ► because the Mac Pro uses the the Xeon parts and because they're generation behind and because we don't have the external internet Apple just did

01:02:41 ◼   ► Whatever the hell it took to get it done inside this iMac box and don't worry about what goes on behind the curtain, right?

01:02:45 ◼   ► But it does create this weird and in in the historical time, you know, five six seven years from now

01:02:51 ◼   ► We're gonna look back on it and it'll just be compressed and we'll just remember that the iMac was first and everything

01:02:57 ◼   ► you know, the standalone displays for a second.

01:03:00 ◼   ► In the interim though, it is weird that the iMac

01:03:03 ◼   ► is gonna have these super amazing retina displays

01:03:05 ◼   ► and the Mac Pro, no matter how much money you spend on it,

01:03:07 ◼   ► won't, unless, you know.

01:03:09 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, you can get a 4K display,

01:03:11 ◼   ► not from Apple. - Right.

01:03:12 ◼   ► - For your Mac, and then you'd buy one of those,

01:03:14 ◼   ► like, special, you know, ones for photography

01:03:16 ◼   ► that has a bigger color gamut and has better accuracy

01:03:19 ◼   ► and, you know, buy it from NEC.

01:03:20 ◼   ► It's like the people who are buying Mac Pros

01:03:23 ◼   ► might already have these super high-res monitors

01:03:26 ◼   ► 4K video editing that conform to different standards than this consumer iMac screen does.

01:03:32 ◼   ► So it's not...

01:03:33 ◼   ► The people who might be complaining are people who had bought a Mac Pro but didn't really

01:03:38 ◼   ► need one and just wanted to have a king of the machine now they don't.

01:03:40 ◼   ► Right.

01:03:41 ◼   ► That's...

01:03:42 ◼   ► Because I do think that's what irks them is that now until there's a 5K standalone display,

01:03:50 ◼   ► and when that comes out, it won't run on the...

01:03:52 ◼   ► You're gonna have to get a new Mac Pro anyway.

01:03:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:54 ◼   ► All right.

01:03:55 ◼   ► One of the many reasons that I didn't buy one is like well if I was waiting for retina

01:03:59 ◼   ► This Mac Pro is not the machine because we know what it's capable of we know Apple didn't even offer any monitors

01:04:04 ◼   ► I didn't want a third-party modern if I did have a third-party, and I didn't want it to be 4k

01:04:08 ◼   ► I wanted what Apple made here. I wanted 27 inch the resolution of my wife's 27 inch Thunderbolt display

01:04:13 ◼   ► It just doubled the the number of pixels vertically and horizontally there's that that's the thing that really blew me away at first

01:04:20 ◼   ► I was like

01:04:21 ◼   ► waiting for the, well there's gotta be a catch.

01:04:24 ◼   ► And then I thought about like with the iPhone 6 Plus,

01:04:27 ◼   ► where it's not really 3x retina, it's 2.8 retina or 2.6,

01:04:32 ◼   ► and they just use scaling to make it work.

01:04:35 ◼   ► And it looks pretty good, but it's still not the same.

01:04:38 ◼   ► I thought, ah, maybe it's like a scaling thing.

01:04:40 ◼   ► And then they gave the pixel dimensions,

01:04:42 ◼   ► and I'm like dividing in my head, and I'm like,

01:04:44 ◼   ► ooh, that sounds like actual 2x retina, and it is.

01:04:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, now Dell had announced a monitor

01:04:51 ◼   ► with similar specs.

01:04:52 ◼   ► So as soon as Dell announced it, you're like,

01:04:53 ◼   ► "Okay, well this must be technically possible now

01:04:56 ◼   ► "if Dell is gonna offer one."

01:04:57 ◼   ► So once it's technically possible,

01:04:58 ◼   ► then it's just like,

01:04:59 ◼   ► when does Apple have a product that this could,

01:05:01 ◼   ► I mean, if the iMac didn't exist,

01:05:03 ◼   ► and Dell comes out with this monitor,

01:05:05 ◼   ► that the current Mac Pros can't drive with a single cable,

01:05:08 ◼   ► and might not be able to drive with two,

01:05:10 ◼   ► depending on how they did it,

01:05:11 ◼   ► then we just would've all been waiting,

01:05:12 ◼   ► and we'd be like,

01:05:13 ◼   ► "Well, Dell's got these monitors, but we can't have them."

01:05:15 ◼   ► But the iMac does exist,

01:05:16 ◼   ► and it gave Apple an opportunity to,

01:05:19 ◼   ► we can get, as soon as those displays are available,

01:05:22 ◼   ► we gotta get one into one of our machines

01:05:23 ◼   ► and the iMac is the way to make that happen.

01:05:25 ◼   ► - So fame is, knock on wood,

01:05:27 ◼   ► let's wait until I actually take it out

01:05:29 ◼   ► and set it up and use it, but on paper at least,

01:05:32 ◼   ► and from what I've seen in person,

01:05:33 ◼   ► this is the Mac I've been waiting for close to 10 years.

01:05:37 ◼   ► - It's gonna be a big upgrade for you.

01:05:40 ◼   ► - Oh, huge upgrade.

01:05:41 ◼   ► Ever since, I remember when they first started talking

01:05:44 ◼   ► about it at WWDC in maybe 2006, 2007,

01:05:48 ◼   ► but they called it, what did they call it?

01:05:52 ◼   ► Before they had the word retina.

01:05:53 ◼   ► - High DPI, resolution independence.

01:05:56 ◼   ► Scalable UI, lots of things.

01:05:57 ◼   ► - Resolution independence was the thing.

01:06:00 ◼   ► And I remember, 'cause, and I mention this too,

01:06:02 ◼   ► like my fellow obsessive on resolution independence

01:06:05 ◼   ► is Cable Sasser at Panic.

01:06:07 ◼   ► And I remember going to the session at WWDC with him

01:06:11 ◼   ► and we came out so excited and he was like,

01:06:14 ◼   ► we're gonna redo all the graphics

01:06:16 ◼   ► and all of our apps as PDFs.

01:06:18 ◼   ► And they did, in fact.

01:06:19 ◼   ► Panic started shipping apps with scalable PDF icons

01:06:24 ◼   ► and stuff like that inside for toolbars

01:06:26 ◼   ► and stuff like that years ago.

01:06:28 ◼   ► Because Cable and I both convinced ourselves,

01:06:32 ◼   ► I don't even know what we were thinking.

01:06:33 ◼   ► I mean, it--

01:06:34 ◼   ► - Well, it's not just you.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Like, if you go back through my old OS X reviews,

01:06:37 ◼   ► Apple made promises.

01:06:39 ◼   ► They're like, by 2008, our whole product line

01:06:41 ◼   ► will be resolution independent, so get ready.

01:06:43 ◼   ► That was like 2006 when they said that, right?

01:06:45 ◼   ► They gave a year and a date,

01:06:47 ◼   ► And like every year like there used to be a section in my OS X reviews is like

01:06:50 ◼   ► You know resolution independence

01:06:52 ◼   ► How's that going along and I would take a little screenshot of text edit in like 2x mode or 1.5x mode

01:06:57 ◼   ► You see what a train wreck it is, you know, like and that's why this is still not a user facing picture

01:07:01 ◼   ► See you next year. We just convinced ourselves that the like retina IMAX we're gonna be coming out in like 2008 and

01:07:08 ◼   ► We were so excited. We wanted to get in line to buy one then

01:07:11 ◼   ► And it took until now

01:07:14 ◼   ► Just I mean it was so much easier to make the iPhone 4 screen. It's way smaller

01:07:17 ◼   ► It's fewer pixels, and it's just so hard to make it that density

01:07:21 ◼   ► You know so we had to wait a long time before it was economically feasible to make a screen this massive

01:07:26 ◼   ► I mean that was the whole thing with the retina

01:07:27 ◼   ► It's like well

01:07:28 ◼   ► Maybe they could do this earlier if like maybe they'll just do it for the 21 inch

01:07:31 ◼   ► I Mac right because they could have gone that they could have probably made that one retina sooner

01:07:35 ◼   ► It would have been like 4k ish or 3k ish type resolution, but no they went for the whole enchilada

01:07:40 ◼   ► Yeah, and it's really as far as I can tell no compromise

01:07:43 ◼   ► It's you know in terms of the number of pixels the way they're doing it. You know that there's

01:07:48 ◼   ► No, no cheapening out on it. It's super bright

01:07:51 ◼   ► It's amazing to me because that was the other thing too during the the event last week

01:07:56 ◼   ► after you know Phil gave the specs and the size and

01:08:01 ◼   ► You know, I I thought well, you know what it's gonna be power

01:08:06 ◼   ► It's kind of this thing it's because that's you know, it's a huge problem all these pixels lighting it up

01:08:09 ◼   ► Is this thing gonna get super hot and instead it takes less power, which is crazy

01:08:15 ◼   ► Yeah, that that's the thing that made me feel good about the machine that like

01:08:20 ◼   ► That it's not gonna be just at the ragged edge of what's possible to wedge into this thing, right?

01:08:25 ◼   ► You know with the cooling and everything so they you know

01:08:27 ◼   ► The GPU is hotter but they made up for it by actually making a screen consume less

01:08:31 ◼   ► Yeah, my hope is that it's what bite by not compromising and clearly like you said they could have shipped something sooner

01:08:38 ◼   ► whether it was like the go 21 inch first or make it a 27 inch 4k display and use scaling to make

01:08:45 ◼   ► the onscreen elements a reasonable size as opposed to making everything cartoonishly large.

01:08:50 ◼   ► They could have done any number of those things within the last few years and didn't. And I think

01:08:57 ◼   ► hopefully it's almost like they're shipping like a 2.0 version of it. That they waited until they

01:09:03 ◼   ► could get everything just right. This is what people who have one sitting in their house tell

01:09:08 ◼   ► themselves to make themselves feel better about first generation Apple products. This

01:09:12 ◼   ► is practically a 2.0. I mean, so far so good. There was a little bit scary moment this morning

01:09:21 ◼   ► when Marco and I had a few people tweeting at us that like, look at this stuttery, like

01:09:26 ◼   ► someone was swiping through spaces on their new Retina 5K iMac and it was like super slow

01:09:31 ◼   ► and stuttery and it was like, uh oh. But then a million other people tweeted and showed

01:09:35 ◼   ► the exact same thing on their 13-inch MacBook Pros.

01:09:38 ◼   ► It's just some weird Yosemite bug.

01:09:41 ◼   ► And then hopefully they'll work out in 1010, which will hopefully come out soon.

01:09:45 ◼   ► Because I had no reproductions at home.

01:09:48 ◼   ► Even on my pre-Unibody MacBook Pro, smooth, doing all that stuff, but then on my Mac at

01:09:53 ◼   ► work that had been on for days that's running Yosemite, I enabled activated mission control,

01:09:58 ◼   ► which I never do otherwise, and it was stuttery.

01:10:00 ◼   ► So I'm like, "Oh, this has got to be Yosemite bug," because we get reports like, "It doesn't

01:10:03 ◼   ► happen all the time and

01:10:05 ◼   ► The best I can tell is that it's some kind of issue that happens when your Mac is on for a really long time

01:10:09 ◼   ► But anyway, there are bugs and that was the only scare so far about the 5k IMAX turns out to be a false alarm

01:10:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I never know how far I can push it in the hands-on areas after these events like

01:10:22 ◼   ► and there's others who are

01:10:24 ◼   ► Bolder than I am who will do it download geek bench and try to yeah, see I wouldn't do that

01:10:30 ◼   ► Yeah, because then they'd stop you there's everyone

01:10:33 ◼   ► It was what's the point like if people gonna get loaner hardware anyway?

01:10:36 ◼   ► Then you can test it for all you want like it's not that thing to do with the hands-on area

01:10:40 ◼   ► Well and I could see how the people that aren't getting review units would be more tempted to do something like that and see if

01:10:48 ◼   ► They can get away with getting yeah

01:10:50 ◼   ► Like the iOS devices like you want to find out if it's three cores in that iPad, right?

01:10:54 ◼   ► So I you know quickly go to some I don't know

01:10:58 ◼   ► Exploit some crazy jailbreak thing to quickly get some little executable to run. Yeah, they they're I think they'll generally cut you off before you

01:11:04 ◼   ► Get that far

01:11:06 ◼   ► But it's funny talking to them because the people who staff the hands-on areas

01:11:11 ◼   ► I think are all I know most of them are but I think all of them work under Schiller in the product marketing

01:11:18 ◼   ► division at Apple and

01:11:21 ◼   ► They're it's easy to think of them

01:11:24 ◼   ► You know

01:11:24 ◼   ► They all wear t-shirts like like they're working in an Apple store or something like that

01:11:27 ◼   ► but they're all like in my experience super super informed about the stuff that you were

01:11:33 ◼   ► That you're talking about like if I'd ask them

01:11:37 ◼   ► Hey, is this three core and is that how it went from two two billion transistors to three?

01:11:43 ◼   ► They would know the answer but they'd also know that they're not allowed to tell me like they're super super important

01:11:48 ◼   ► Yeah, no, they're totally brief. They'd have they have their talking points. They know what they will talk to you about they know

01:11:53 ◼   ► Specific phrasing for you know, if you ask them a question about something and they're gonna tell you something about they're gonna

01:11:57 ◼   ► They're all gonna use the same sentence in the same words. It's it's talking

01:12:00 ◼   ► Well, yeah that they are professional

01:12:02 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's all it's very evident like if you know anybody was there at their first, you know

01:12:06 ◼   ► The first time you get invited to an Apple event you go to the hands-on area

01:12:09 ◼   ► It's very clear that they have a script and they have talking points

01:12:12 ◼   ► but the other thing though, is that they

01:12:15 ◼   ► their full-time jobs

01:12:18 ◼   ► 363 other days a year are

01:12:21 ◼   ► working in Apple's product marketing, being hyper informed about all of the technical details of all of Apple's products like these people

01:12:29 ◼   ► Know they know their shit. They know the stuff that's not on the script and it's you know

01:12:36 ◼   ► And they're not going to be fooled by somebody trying to download geekbench or something like that

01:12:40 ◼   ► maybe I could see getting away with it and in the early parts of the hands-on areas because it's so crazy and crowded and

01:12:47 ◼   ► It's everybody wants to get their hands on them at once and maybe you can get away with it

01:12:52 ◼   ► But not for long. My thing was I I they were showing

01:12:55 ◼   ► Photos of course

01:12:59 ◼   ► Big images

01:13:01 ◼   ► Because it you know, it just shows off the thing they commissioned a guy with like one of those

01:13:06 ◼   ► I think they're called hassle bods hassle pads

01:13:08 ◼   ► but you know like this camera that shoots like I

01:13:12 ◼   ► Don't know 50 50 megapixel digital images and like a cityscape

01:13:17 ◼   ► and you can see these details and you can just zoom in and you read like the license plate number on the car and then

01:13:24 ◼   ► Zoom back out and it's you know, you can actually see that it's still being rendered in individual pixels on screen

01:13:29 ◼   ► But I closed that and went to like the finder and opened up like a safari window and then tried to drag it around

01:13:35 ◼   ► The window as fast as I could like that was my benchmark in the hands-on area

01:13:39 ◼   ► Like if I drag a window around as fast as I can does it does it shear?

01:13:43 ◼   ► Yeah, like I think yeah, that was a good thing to test and also, you know

01:13:47 ◼   ► If you think about the the first 15 inch right now MacBook Pro is like scrolling at the maximum resolution

01:13:52 ◼   ► At the one that was bigger than the native screen, you know that that one had a little bit of issues find out

01:13:57 ◼   ► you know probably but the scaling and not with the compositing because compositing has always been fast compositing is

01:14:02 ◼   ► Pretty easy to do that

01:14:03 ◼   ► What you're looking for shearing is because you know

01:14:05 ◼   ► They have to be driving it was like essentially to display port

01:14:08 ◼   ► 1.2 connections or the equivalent behind the scenes and like you would look at like the driving the left half of the screen

01:14:12 ◼   ► I right at the screen differently but like I mean that's the type of thing Apple would not ship if you could if you could get

01:14:17 ◼   ► Tearing while dragging windows around I mean Apple never shipped that even when it meant that dragging windows around was slow as molasses

01:14:24 ◼   ► You still didn't get any tearing. That's like I would have been I would have been shocked

01:14:28 ◼   ► But it's like something I had to see to believe. Yeah, I had but that was the extent that I tested it in advance

01:14:34 ◼   ► Yeah, and scrolling I put I positioned a window right in the middle

01:14:38 ◼   ► So if there was a you know if it was some kind of two screens glued together trickery that I

01:14:43 ◼   ► Tried to figure that out and of course, it's not

01:14:46 ◼   ► Anything else from the event last week, I guess there's the iPad to iPad air - which is kind of interesting I

01:14:56 ◼   ► Think the way that they've gone with the air with the iPads is

01:15:01 ◼   ► I

01:15:04 ◼   ► Try to write about it this week that it's there's no real annual pattern to it and I don't think it means that it's directionless

01:15:10 ◼   ► I just feel like

01:15:12 ◼   ► the

01:15:14 ◼   ► Engineering wins that they can pull off each year while maintaining their profit margins are very very different as compared to the iPhone

01:15:22 ◼   ► Which to me seems much more predictable?

01:15:24 ◼   ► The thing with the top-end iPad and the reason I'm still totally in favor on iPad Pro is like

01:15:32 ◼   ► While no one is really paying much attention. They are pushing up the the highest end iOS device

01:15:39 ◼   ► Pushing up really close to PC class in terms of power

01:15:43 ◼   ► Yeah, not in terms of interface like it still doesn't have a keyboard still it's still touch or whatever

01:15:47 ◼   ► But you know and it doesn't seem like a big deal like oh so what I run my iOS apps faster

01:15:52 ◼   ► And maybe like a game will look nicer or something like that. But it's like it's one of those things where

01:15:57 ◼   ► when we have all the steps in between

01:16:01 ◼   ► It doesn't seem so impressive like it's not as impressive as you know

01:16:04 ◼   ► iPhone 3gs to iPhone 4 where they go ready like wow, they just doubled everything. It's amazing, right?

01:16:09 ◼   ► But through a series of small steps

01:16:12 ◼   ► There's gonna come a point where new classes of applications are possible on an iPad merely because they've been pressing it forward

01:16:19 ◼   ► And there was a little stall there

01:16:21 ◼   ► I think a lot of it did with like just having one gigabyte of RAM for a long time

01:16:23 ◼   ► But now and and having two cores for how long we had two cores

01:16:26 ◼   ► Like everyone else has gone quad core and like the Android space and everything like that

01:16:29 ◼   ► So now they're pressing again two gigs of RAM three cores

01:16:33 ◼   ► I don't think it makes new categories of stuff available to you, but maybe a generation or two from now

01:16:38 ◼   ► We're gonna wake up and say there are things that the iPad can do that the iPhone can't quite dream of doing yet

01:16:45 ◼   ► I mean right now it's like you just need an extra power to run this bigger screen and the iPhone

01:16:49 ◼   ► You know is reasonable but like I think you had just have so much more headroom in the bigger form factor so far

01:16:55 ◼   ► They haven't really been willing to do with that much. This is the first year

01:16:57 ◼   ► I feel like they're pulling away by giving it double the RAM and everything

01:17:01 ◼   ► But you know there is room. I think there is room for for more sophisticated applications

01:17:07 ◼   ► To be on a an even larger and even more powerful iPad. We're just like right now

01:17:12 ◼   ► It's kind of like we're inching towards that it just seems like man a faster bigger iPad well

01:17:17 ◼   ► I think the two demos they chose art were really good

01:17:20 ◼   ► I think they were such great demos the pixel pixel mature and replay

01:17:24 ◼   ► Did you see the Schiller mispronounced it?

01:17:27 ◼   ► It's been listening to YouTube much.

01:17:29 ◼   ► Yeah. So Schiller called it Pixelmator. But those are good demos because in theory,

01:17:37 ◼   ► if they've already got the iOS app working for the iPad, they could come out with,

01:17:42 ◼   ► maybe they will even. Maybe when Pixelmator for iOS ships, it will be universal and it'll run on

01:17:48 ◼   ► your iPhone too. But clearly editing photos is better. The bigger the screen, the better.

01:17:55 ◼   ► and on a phone screen you're seriously constrained you know and for like the exact thing that they

01:18:00 ◼   ► did where they're making like an advertisement for you know this big image and they want to

01:18:05 ◼   ► superimpose text and um you know having a laptop size screen like the full size ipad

01:18:12 ◼   ► even though that might be small for a laptop it's still certainly you know nobody you know

01:18:18 ◼   ► know, the small iPad, the mini is vaguely giant size phone size, right? It would be

01:18:25 ◼   ► the biggest phone ever, but it's, you know, you could imagine somebody making an

01:18:29 ◼   ► Android phone that's the size of an iPad mini, but not an iPad. And for photo

01:18:34 ◼   ► editing, it's, you know, size matters. And then I think with those replay guys, I

01:18:37 ◼   ► thought that was an interesting, "Boy, you could never do that on a PC" demo, because

01:18:46 ◼   ► to me the big part of that is that you've already got you it's the device you use to

01:18:51 ◼   ► ship shoot the clips it's all one thing it's the camera it's the editing system it's the

01:18:56 ◼   ► playback system right and you don't have that with a laptop like where you might shoot a

01:19:02 ◼   ► bunch of video on your phone and then you can connect your phone with the lightning

01:19:07 ◼   ► adapter to your macbook and suck all the video over and open and then you might airplay it

01:19:12 ◼   ► onto your tv so people can see it or put it back on your phone because it unless people

01:19:16 ◼   ► gathered around your screen.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:18 ◼   ► I mean, it's certainly a that's beyond the technical acumen of a lot of typical people

01:19:23 ◼   ► and B it's not something you want to do when you're on vacation, like in the demo that

01:19:27 ◼   ► they, because it gives you that year.

01:19:29 ◼   ► It's like, it's the type of thing where when you're on vacation, you tell yourself that

01:19:31 ◼   ► when you get back home, boy, you're going to spend a day and take all of your stuff

01:19:34 ◼   ► and put it onto your computer and make a nice video and send it out to people.

01:19:37 ◼   ► But you won't because you get back from vacation and you're rushing around and you're back

01:19:40 ◼   ► to your regular life.

01:19:41 ◼   ► And there's when you're on vacation, you got the iPad with you.

01:19:44 ◼   ► You can do it when you go back to your hotel room or whatever.

01:19:46 ◼   ► Or while you're waiting for your table at dinner

01:19:48 ◼   ► and just suck these clips in and push a button

01:19:51 ◼   ► and have a finished video pop out that you could post--

01:19:55 ◼   ► Share right there and then say, hey, guys,

01:19:57 ◼   ► this is what we're doing on our vacation.

01:19:59 ◼   ► And the other thing that's lurking for the iPad, which

01:20:01 ◼   ► we still haven't seen but people have poked around,

01:20:03 ◼   ► like the whole split screen multitasking, which we know

01:20:05 ◼   ► is lurking the code for splitting multiple apps

01:20:08 ◼   ► into thirds and quarters.

01:20:09 ◼   ► It's there, and obviously it's not baked yet

01:20:11 ◼   ► and they're not ready for it.

01:20:12 ◼   ► And maybe you need a bigger iPad or whatever.

01:20:13 ◼   ► but that's what I'm talking about of like pressing

01:20:17 ◼   ► the limits of what can be done on a touch device.

01:20:19 ◼   ► - I can't help but think that going to two gigs of RAM

01:20:22 ◼   ► is a sign that if there's an iPad Pro

01:20:26 ◼   ► in like five months from now,

01:20:28 ◼   ► 'cause that's the rumor is maybe like February or March,

01:20:32 ◼   ► they're gonna have an iPad Pro,

01:20:34 ◼   ► 12 or 13 inches or something like that,

01:20:38 ◼   ► and it'll have split screen.

01:20:39 ◼   ► My guess is that this iPad, if that's true,

01:20:42 ◼   ► this iPad Air 2 will get the split screen too,

01:20:45 ◼   ► but no other iPad will because--

01:20:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause there's just not enough room

01:20:48 ◼   ► on the smaller one.

01:20:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it's not like they've promised it,

01:20:51 ◼   ► but in fact, I guess they still sell the,

01:20:54 ◼   ► I think the original mini, which they're selling for 249

01:20:57 ◼   ► is only 512 megs of RAM.

01:21:01 ◼   ► And you guys talked about ATP,

01:21:03 ◼   ► but the frustration with the growing range

01:21:07 ◼   ► from bottom high end to low end

01:21:09 ◼   ► is that developers don't have the ability to say,

01:21:12 ◼   ► this app only runs on the iPad Air 2

01:21:15 ◼   ► because it's so graphically intense.

01:21:16 ◼   ► You can't do that.

01:21:17 ◼   ► Your iPad app has to run on at least launch on all iPads.

01:21:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, but that's something Apple has the flexibility

01:21:24 ◼   ► to change at any time though.

01:21:25 ◼   ► It's just an app store rule.

01:21:26 ◼   ► They can change the rule at any time.

01:21:28 ◼   ► They can give you a little API and a point update

01:21:30 ◼   ► to definitively say, you know,

01:21:31 ◼   ► because they keep bragging about, as Marco pointed out,

01:21:34 ◼   ► that big chart that shows the GPU speed

01:21:38 ◼   ► that goes up like a big hockey stick.

01:21:39 ◼   ► Look how far we've come.

01:21:40 ◼   ► the eight X's its GPU is so incredibly powerful. And yet

01:21:44 ◼   ► they're still shipping the second dot on the graph, the

01:21:46 ◼   ► second lowest one, right? And it's like, well, it doesn't help

01:21:48 ◼   ► me because if I got to make a game that runs in that second

01:21:50 ◼   ► dot, I don't it's actually frustrating to me. The eight X

01:21:54 ◼   ► is out there because now I got to make a game that like scales

01:21:57 ◼   ► from all the way out at the I can't believe we used to live

01:22:00 ◼   ► like animals like that end of the hockey stick curve. Like

01:22:03 ◼   ► what? What does remove texture mapping in that version? It'll

01:22:05 ◼   ► just be flat shading.

01:22:06 ◼   ► But I do think that there's a general you know, the gist of it

01:22:10 ◼   ► is if you're an iPad app or a modern iPhone app,

01:22:13 ◼   ► you can more or less assume that you have access

01:22:16 ◼   ► to about a gig of memory if you need it.

01:22:18 ◼   ► So I feel like this, I feel like the iPad Air 2 getting two

01:22:22 ◼   ► is a sign that if there's split screen,

01:22:26 ◼   ► that it'll get it and I don't think the other ones will.

01:22:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's just time for two gigs.

01:22:32 ◼   ► Like it's kind of sad that the iPhone doesn't have it,

01:22:34 ◼   ► but at the very least, you can make some kind

01:22:35 ◼   ► of battery life excuse for the phone, right?

01:22:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, definitely.

01:22:39 ◼   ► I mean maybe like it's like it's borderline they made it a half a millimeter thicker and they gave it two gigs of RAM

01:22:46 ◼   ► It would be a different device, but you'd have more. Yeah, and there's a there's a Quora post

01:22:51 ◼   ► I haven't linked to it from daring fireball because I feel like it's a little I

01:22:54 ◼   ► Don't I can't verify it myself and it seems a little bit too rah rah Apple even when they

01:23:01 ◼   ► Even when they don't even when they don't put enough RAM in the phone

01:23:05 ◼   ► It's it's all good, but the expert if somebody asked on Quora

01:23:08 ◼   ► Why why did the new iPhone 6 only still only have one gigabyte of RAM?

01:23:12 ◼   ► when a lot of the top top shelf competitors on Android have to

01:23:16 ◼   ► and like the top-ranked answer was somebody saying that it's

01:23:20 ◼   ► there's probably a whole bunch of other reasons too, but a big one is that a garbage collected system like

01:23:28 ◼   ► Java needs double the RAM of a non garbage collected system like iOS and that they've linked to like an academic

01:23:35 ◼   ► paper that showed how

01:23:37 ◼   ► You know if you can give a garbage collected system enough RAM

01:23:42 ◼   ► it all just works out but when a garbage collected system gets RAM constrained it goes to hell and

01:23:48 ◼   ► Everything gets gummed up waiting for memory

01:23:54 ◼   ► And I think there's something to that. I do think that you know that iOS because it's not garbage collected can get by on one gig

01:24:01 ◼   ► longer than it will then like Android could have but I

01:24:04 ◼   ► Still yeah, it's it's still irritating every time I go back to Safari and my tabs have all been flushed

01:24:10 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's that kind of that's the real luxury of buying the top-end iPad air - is gonna get you it's like oh

01:24:18 ◼   ► Thank God and go back to Safari a Safari is still running itself and be the tabs that are in Safari

01:24:23 ◼   ► I I just had I noticed with my review unit my first right before about an hour before the show. I was flipping through your your

01:24:30 ◼   ► Yosemite review and

01:24:33 ◼   ► It had finally gotten flushed from memory, but I hadn't been in Safari for a while

01:24:37 ◼   ► I had been doing a lot of other stuff

01:24:39 ◼   ► But yeah those big giant reading images that are in that review can yeah can do that to you

01:24:44 ◼   ► Yeah, that that was the first one that had gotten flushed and it was definitely noticeable

01:24:48 ◼   ► I think it's super interesting too that they've gone

01:24:51 ◼   ► They've so out now

01:24:53 ◼   ► I don't wanna say outclass

01:24:55 ◼   ► But it's it's so noticeably faster than the iPhone 6 in any kind of benchmark because it has you know

01:25:00 ◼   ► It's it's a faster faster at single core and it has a third core

01:25:04 ◼   ► Yep, and the GPU is more powerful because it has to push more pixels and I think it may I haven't looked at the specs

01:25:10 ◼   ► Closely enough, but I think they may be like it

01:25:13 ◼   ► PowerPoint where it's not just like the same speed is the iPhone 6's GPU, but it just has to push more pixels

01:25:19 ◼   ► It's like it can push the more pixels and then some yeah

01:25:22 ◼   ► And I got to talk to I just happened to be my seat in the event last week was right behind

01:25:29 ◼   ► The was like front towards the front like fifth row on the left and the demo guys were all in front of me like right

01:25:35 ◼   ► in front of me where the the replay guys and

01:25:37 ◼   ► Two rows in front of me where the pixel mater guys

01:25:41 ◼   ► And I know the pixel made up guys because they've sponsored I think they've sponsored the show

01:25:44 ◼   ► But I know they sponsored during fireball many times and I've emailed them, you know ever since the 1.0 came out

01:25:50 ◼   ► It was like wow somebody actually used you know

01:25:52 ◼   ► Core image and all these other cool Apple technologies to do the thing

01:25:56 ◼   ► We've been talking about for 15 years and have an indie rival to Photoshop

01:26:00 ◼   ► So I've known him by email, you know since forever first time we ever met in person

01:26:04 ◼   ► I've was awesome to be able to congratulate them in person because what do you know what a moment?

01:26:09 ◼   ► You know you get to be on stage at an Apple event and demo your app

01:26:13 ◼   ► And it ends up I know the replay guys a little bit, too

01:26:17 ◼   ► I didn't recognize their names when they first got called up, but they've sent me

01:26:20 ◼   ► You know just eat. You know as the guy writes during fireball. They've sent me emails on various things over the years

01:26:25 ◼   ► And you know we were right there in town hall

01:26:28 ◼   ► We had a couple minutes before they were gonna kick us out, and then you know they're not gonna

01:26:31 ◼   ► Give me any kind of state secrets about what what life was like the last couple of weeks while they were working on this

01:26:37 ◼   ► But they you know they could speak a little bit and both of them like the replay guy said that he thinks if anything

01:26:43 ◼   ► Apple has completely under sold the graphics performance of the a8x that that when they you know from what they were doing

01:26:52 ◼   ► The last couple weeks getting the demo together for replay that it was way faster than what Apple is saying

01:26:57 ◼   ► compared to like the iPhone 6

01:27:00 ◼   ► That's the thing about the power in these like they're putting so much power into his iPad and building up to the next

01:27:06 ◼   ► Sort of the next sort of big leap like that we're gonna have to we're gonna be able to get a different class of applications

01:27:12 ◼   ► but especially for graphics performance the the different class of application that you can get is a

01:27:18 ◼   ► Extremely graphically sophisticated game and you're never gonna really have one of those on the iPad air, too

01:27:26 ◼   ► Because it's the same reason like when you know when like watchdogs or you know

01:27:32 ◼   ► What like you know shadow of Mordor I guess is bad example because cross-platform

01:27:36 ◼   ► But any like modern console game that's on the current generation consoles

01:27:40 ◼   ► There's no Wii port of those because the Wii is standard definition and incredibly weak and there is no way to scale a modern

01:27:47 ◼   ► PlayStation 4 game that all the way down to

01:27:50 ◼   ► Something that's that darn old like there's not you can't well

01:27:53 ◼   ► We'll just use fewer vertexes and lower resolution textures in the game will run fine. It's just not possible, right?

01:27:58 ◼   ► You cannot take a game and scale that so any game that takes full advantage of the 8x

01:28:03 ◼   ► I don't know if you can make a version of that game that also runs on the two hundred and forty nine dollar iPad mini with

01:28:09 ◼   ► an a5 and five I'd like there's nothing you can do to the game to make it run on that and so

01:28:13 ◼   ► Like you're kind of stuck you can never make you can never make an app

01:28:17 ◼   ► They can really take advantage of that GPU because really have to think either games or like

01:28:21 ◼   ► Scientific imaging are the only two things that you could do really use the GPU like that

01:28:26 ◼   ► So it's kind of it's kind of a shame that that you know

01:28:28 ◼   ► I mean

01:28:28 ◼   ► I guess you can do core image effects really really fast and the you know

01:28:33 ◼   ► The a5 can do core image effects the same ones just much slower

01:28:36 ◼   ► And that's how you can get away with doing something like pixelmator on both platforms, but games

01:28:40 ◼   ► I feel like people are stuck there that that and also if you those type of games that

01:28:45 ◼   ► Graphical sophistication cost so much money to make you have to sell a lot of them and I'm not sure

01:28:50 ◼   ► that the touch interface is

01:28:52 ◼   ► Sufficient to you know be it, you know to sell a game like a 500 million dollar game like destiny for the iPad

01:28:59 ◼   ► I I don't know if you could you could sell that with if people are gonna be swiping on this

01:29:02 ◼   ► This is great because now that I have a 10 year old son

01:29:05 ◼   ► I actually am familiar with just about every title that you've mentioned including destiny. Do you have did you end up getting a ps4?

01:29:12 ◼   ► No, you know we have you got the free Xbox Xbox

01:29:16 ◼   ► And it's I don't know what to do about it because I kind of feel like the PlayStation 4 looks like the better

01:29:20 ◼   ► The more time goes on looks like it's the better platform. Well, so do you have destiny? Yeah, we have it on the Xbox

01:29:27 ◼   ► Yeah, so there you go. Yeah, pretty good game. Have you played it? Uh, just just a toy around a little bit

01:29:34 ◼   ► I it's you know, I'm total like the old man learning to play games

01:29:38 ◼   ► But it's you know, it's really really graphically. You should you can Xbox you should check Xbox Live arcade

01:29:44 ◼   ► I think there was a version of crystal quest

01:29:46 ◼   ► Tell you kid about son. Let me tell you I was a kid

01:29:51 ◼   ► This is what we played. Although you can't play crystal quest at the friggin thumbstick. It doesn't know but anyway, you need a mouse

01:29:55 ◼   ► Do they really have it and yeah, I believe maybe not on the Xbox one

01:30:02 ◼   ► But way back when I'm either on the original Xbox or the 360

01:30:05 ◼   ► Cassidy and green I think it was the actual real company made part of crystal quest for Xbox

01:30:10 ◼   ► I do think I do think though that this is it games in particular. I do think that they're really pushing

01:30:17 ◼   ► Apple to open up the App Store to to hardware limit that the app somehow, you know if they already let you

01:30:25 ◼   ► limit it by OS I just can't see why it's getting to be untenable as they extend

01:30:33 ◼   ► the life of these you know these devices and that's the thing that the as Alan

01:30:39 ◼   ► Pike called it the zombie iMac that $249 retina not retina iPad mini the original

01:30:48 ◼   ► iPad mini which is from two years ago is really from four years ago because the

01:30:55 ◼   ► a5 system on a chip and the 512 megabytes of RAM and everything is

01:31:00 ◼   ► really it's the iPad to shrunken down like the I'll say it the iPhone 4s right

01:31:05 ◼   ► wasn't the same generation is that yeah it must have been around the forest a5

01:31:08 ◼   ► yeah no I know my iPod touch is the same thing 512 mics of RAM a5 processor so

01:31:13 ◼   ► So they've actually, it's just in a weird way, like they've actually, the lineup I think

01:31:19 ◼   ► only has a, it goes A5 at 249, but then there is no A6 iPad left.

01:31:28 ◼   ► They're already gone.

01:31:30 ◼   ► So it's like a year behind, an extra year behind the next step up.

01:31:37 ◼   ► It's a really old piece of technology.

01:31:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know, like, and again, we keep saying this every time, you know, when Metal

01:31:46 ◼   ► came out and now the 8x, or it's like, and the Apple TV, playing video games on your

01:31:52 ◼   ► television through an Apple device is like just sitting there in front of Apple for years.

01:31:56 ◼   ► Like they've got every single freaking piece of the puzzle, they just don't have the desire

01:32:00 ◼   ► to do it, which is fine, like you can't be in every business, maybe they don't feel like

01:32:03 ◼   ► they want to enter that fray, but as they accumulate the pieces, especially with Metal,

01:32:08 ◼   ► the Apple TV and like building their own ARM chips with these crazy GPUs in them.

01:32:12 ◼   ► Like I don't necessarily recommend that they go for it because I don't think

01:32:16 ◼   ► they're really equipped to compete in that space but it's just so weird to see

01:32:18 ◼   ► them. It's kind of like when it was back at the e-book, the dawning of the e-book

01:32:23 ◼   ► era around 2001-2002 and I was like Apple's got these iPods and they've got

01:32:27 ◼   ► a way to sell things digitally online with the iTunes store and like they have

01:32:32 ◼   ► all the pieces to dominate the e-book space like they basically you know this

01:32:35 ◼   ► I think this maybe even before the Kindle came out it's like or maybe

01:32:37 ◼   ► around the same time, but the Kindle was e-ink, it wasn't quite the same thing. It's like,

01:32:40 ◼   ► why is Apple not, you know, the e-book market is there for the taking for Apple. They have

01:32:44 ◼   ► all the pieces, they have the momentum, they could do it, they're just not interested.

01:32:49 ◼   ► And eventually they're kind of like, yeah, I guess we'll do e-books too. By then it was

01:32:51 ◼   ► too late, Amazon was the dominant player and iBooks also ran. And the gaming space obviously

01:32:56 ◼   ► has been heavily populated for years and years, but here's Apple just dutifully working to

01:33:00 ◼   ► essentially build the ingredients of a world-class gaming console platform and then just not

01:33:06 ◼   ► doing that. Yeah, it's it like you said it's laying right in front of them

01:33:09 ◼   ► because the A8X I think the A8 is probably pretty good and you could make

01:33:14 ◼   ► it reasonable gaming console out of it especially with metal which you know

01:33:23 ◼   ► again talking to you know developers you know it did Apple calling it ten times

01:33:27 ◼   ► faster than OpenGL seems fair it seems like in you know real world. That's a BS

01:33:33 ◼   ► - Well. - Because it's 10X

01:33:35 ◼   ► and like, you know, if you do something stupid

01:33:37 ◼   ► and you were just measuring draw calls,

01:33:38 ◼   ► it's a micro benchmark.

01:33:40 ◼   ► But like, but the thing is that type of low level API,

01:33:43 ◼   ► every game console has something like that on it.

01:33:44 ◼   ► Like Apple has its own something like that.

01:33:46 ◼   ► - But that's the advantage Apple, modern Apple today has

01:33:51 ◼   ► is that they have enough developer support

01:33:53 ◼   ► and so many customers that they can get developers

01:33:55 ◼   ► to use their thing.

01:33:58 ◼   ► - To port, like to port all their game engines,

01:33:59 ◼   ► you know, the Unity and Unreal 4 engine and everything like,

01:34:02 ◼   ► will make a port solely for, you know, so they can sell iOS games, right?

01:34:05 ◼   ► Because that's a big market, they make a lot of money off that.

01:34:07 ◼   ► So all those engines are saying, "Yeah, hell yeah, we'll make a port of our engine to Metal,

01:34:11 ◼   ► and then everybody who builds games on our engine will be able to take advantage of it."

01:34:14 ◼   ► And like, to build a full-fledged console,

01:34:17 ◼   ► you'd have to do something like wimpy like the, not wimpy, but like lower-powered like the PlayStation TV or something,

01:34:22 ◼   ► because the A8X is not going to compete in power with the PlayStation 4.

01:34:26 ◼   ► But there's no reason that Apple couldn't build a device that competes with the PlayStation 4.

01:34:31 ◼   ► It would not be just an A8X in a box, but like, by making the A8X and Metal and having a store

01:34:37 ◼   ► and talking to game developers and getting the engines ported to their technology shows that if they wanted to,

01:34:43 ◼   ► they could make a product like this that is of similar power to the PlayStation 4,

01:34:46 ◼   ► or whatever the next generation is, and decide to compete in that space.

01:34:49 ◼   ► I don't—they just don't want to, which is fine.

01:34:51 ◼   ► Like, it's all about what do you say yes to, what do you say no to.

01:34:53 ◼   ► like that recent Tim Cook interview where he keeps saying like, "There's plenty of things

01:34:57 ◼   ► we could do. We have plenty of great ideas, and we don't not do them because we're not

01:35:01 ◼   ► capable of them. They just choose what they want to do, and thus far they have not made

01:35:05 ◼   ► this choice." Just like for all those years they chose not to enter the e-book market.

01:35:08 ◼   ► So...

01:35:09 ◼   ► Well, or even honestly, even chose not to enter the phone market. I mean, people were

01:35:13 ◼   ► clamoring for an Apple phone ever since cell phones became consumer-priced items.

01:35:19 ◼   ► items.

01:35:20 ◼   ► Yeah, well that's because they hadn't figured out what they wanted to do for a phone yet.

01:35:24 ◼   ► They had all those different competing internal projects and everything.

01:35:26 ◼   ► Whereas the game console, the reason you don't do it is like, "Well, we're just going to

01:35:29 ◼   ► make another game console like everybody else."

01:35:31 ◼   ► Like they don't want to enter the space until they feel like they have something significant

01:35:34 ◼   ► to add.

01:35:35 ◼   ► And with the iPhone, they didn't enter the phone space.

01:35:36 ◼   ► Like they did the Motorola Rocker and all that silliness, but they didn't field their

01:35:39 ◼   ► own phone that was just like a candy bar phone.

01:35:41 ◼   ► They didn't enter the space until they had something.

01:35:44 ◼   ► Even though their candy bar phone would have been the best candy bar phone, they just didn't

01:35:47 ◼   ► do it.

01:35:48 ◼   ► Right.

01:35:49 ◼   ► them because that would have made introducing the iPhone harder because then you got to

01:35:52 ◼   ► transition people. What about my old Apple phone I liked it? What is this new thing,

01:35:56 ◼   ► blah, blah, blah, whereas if the iPhone is your first phone, no problem.

01:35:59 ◼   ► And lastly, the performance thing. And again, I don't often go to benchmarks when I write

01:36:05 ◼   ► reviews but I really just think it's so fascinating how quickly the high-end iPad is gaining on

01:36:12 ◼   ► the low-end MacBook Airs. And again, it's not apples to apples because OS X and iOS

01:36:19 ◼   ► so many different interface things and just rules about multitasking and how much stuff

01:36:23 ◼   ► can be going on in the background.

01:36:25 ◼   ► And how much RAM you can get like a MacBook Air with like 16.

01:36:28 ◼   ► Exactly, which can have an enormous performance, especially not even benchmark, but just real

01:36:35 ◼   ► world advantages because when you're switching between these things, they're all still in

01:36:41 ◼   ► memory.

01:36:42 ◼   ► And I would have to think the SSD storage in the Air is also fast.

01:36:45 ◼   ► I think this is the first generation of iOS products to use PCI Express for the the SSD connections

01:36:50 ◼   ► I had heard that as a vague thing. I haven't seen like an iFixit teardown

01:36:53 ◼   ► So that's the case but like but they've been doing that on MacBook Airs for a while

01:36:56 ◼   ► But but yeah, like I heard that I saw a thing on Twitter last night again not verified

01:37:00 ◼   ► It's I didn't it's not like somebody showed pictures of it. But yeah, somebody seemingly reliable said it's PCI Express

01:37:06 ◼   ► Which is you know, it's desktop, you know, and they say desktop class performance

01:37:12 ◼   ► They're they're actually they're not hyping it

01:37:14 ◼   ► They're they're being serious

01:37:16 ◼   ► And that's what it like that the gates that type of stuff the more boring stuff if you're not playing a game the thing that gates

01:37:21 ◼   ► Your performance on just using your iOS device is a matter of memory you have and how fast the storages because what do you think?

01:37:28 ◼   ► It's done when you're launching an app and quitting an app and launching this app, but like

01:37:31 ◼   ► It's not the CPU is mostly spending its time waiting for I/O during during those times when you're waiting well

01:37:36 ◼   ► yeah, which is exactly why I splurged and got the

01:37:41 ◼   ► SSD storage for the iMac I feel like my last spinning hard risk that I've ever bought, you know is in the past. I

01:37:48 ◼   ► Would like mine to be in the past, but they're not getting well

01:37:52 ◼   ► Other than external drives that I would use for like backup or something like that where I'm not going to be waiting on it as a

01:37:58 ◼   ► user

01:37:59 ◼   ► Even then like at work

01:38:01 ◼   ► My machine has SSDs for all the stuff that I use but my super duper clone is spinning and it's just so painful

01:38:06 ◼   ► like how long a super duper clone takes just

01:38:10 ◼   ► You know, it's just like read from the SSD and then just like go get a coffee. Oh you thought the spinning hard disk wrote?

01:38:16 ◼   ► Okay, I'll read one more thing from the SSD like you just see super do it. So it's so asymmetrical

01:38:19 ◼   ► So I would love to be all SSD, but unfortunately

01:38:23 ◼   ► I keep accumulating stuff and SSDs set up for the read hit the reset button

01:38:27 ◼   ► Unlike storage used to be scaling with my with my digital hoarding and then SSDs were like up

01:38:33 ◼   ► No, actually set you back shrunk everything way back. That's just now barely catching up again with one terabyte SSD, right?

01:38:38 ◼   ► All right, let me take a third break here and thank our last sponsor, another longtime

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01:41:52 ◼   ► So let's talk Yosemite for the rest of the show.

01:41:55 ◼   ► Sure, 140 in, let's start.

01:41:59 ◼   ► My son calls it "Yozomite."

01:42:01 ◼   ► Yep.

01:42:02 ◼   ► A lot of nicknames.

01:42:04 ◼   ► "Yozomite," I think he says.

01:42:07 ◼   ► This is exactly as funny.

01:42:08 ◼   ► I didn't think about kids, but that was exactly like what people said coming out of WWDC's

01:42:12 ◼   ► keynote is, "People don't know how to spell Yosemite.

01:42:15 ◼   ► People don't know what Yosemite is."

01:42:16 ◼   ► And then when my son started talking about "Yozomite," I was like, "Huh.

01:42:21 ◼   ► Well, it doesn't really matter."

01:42:25 ◼   ► free. It's not like they need to sell it to people.

01:42:27 ◼   ► I think the visual thing, if it is anything that maybe I thought you underplayed was talking

01:42:33 ◼   ► about the visual redesign. Because I know you care, but it's also a hard thing to talk

01:42:40 ◼   ► about.

01:42:41 ◼   ► You think I underplayed it? I spent a lot of words on that. That's like the longest

01:42:45 ◼   ► section in the review.

01:42:46 ◼   ► It could have been longer, in my opinion. Because you know what? I guess the other thing

01:42:53 ◼   ► to is that you know that they're not, we're going to have something, they're going to

01:42:59 ◼   ► improve it and next year's will look a little better and it'll look a little better. But

01:43:02 ◼   ► I think this is basically what we're looking at for the next, at least probably a decade

01:43:09 ◼   ► on the Mac.

01:43:11 ◼   ► Yeah, probably. I forget what I put in my review and what I cut, but one of the things

01:43:17 ◼   ► I mentioned in the most recent ATP is like, there's this thing that Apple does when they

01:43:22 ◼   ► they have a new fancy design that they like.

01:43:26 ◼   ► They did it with iOS 7, they did it with the original Aqua

01:43:29 ◼   ► and 10, they did it with the various looks in between

01:43:32 ◼   ► like brush metal.

01:43:33 ◼   ► They tend to err on the side of going too far with a look.

01:43:38 ◼   ► And then they back it off later in response to complaints.

01:43:41 ◼   ► And so like iOS 7 was the most recent memory

01:43:43 ◼   ► where they have a super thin fonts, right?

01:43:46 ◼   ► And everything was just maybe a little bit too precious

01:43:49 ◼   ► the parallax effect and the zoom in and everything and so you add the thing to reduce motion you thicken up the font a little

01:43:55 ◼   ► Bit and you make adjustments and that was mostly done before release with with aqua

01:43:59 ◼   ► original version of 10 10 was just crazy pinstripes everywhere super glossy and lickable all

01:44:05 ◼   ► Faded and soft lighting like everything was shot with Vaseline on the lens and they backed that off over years hardening up the edges

01:44:12 ◼   ► Towing down the pinstripes and then brushed metal came in and everything was freaking metal and the version of toning that down was getting rid

01:44:18 ◼   ► of it, but like going too far and then backing off is preferable to them it seems than not

01:44:23 ◼   ► going far enough, like being timid. So Yosemite is, and I kind of bemoan that in the review

01:44:29 ◼   ► or the part that I cut from the review that, I don't remember what's in there anymore,

01:44:33 ◼   ► is saying like, wouldn't it be nice if we could skip that part where they go too far

01:44:38 ◼   ► and just go right to the part where they tone it down a little bit and maybe they feel like

01:44:41 ◼   ► they don't know where they need to tone it down. Like remember the checkbox to make the

01:44:44 ◼   ► menu bar not translucent because the translucent menu bar, the original one in Leopard which

01:44:48 ◼   ► just crazy translucent and made everything unreadable.

01:44:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, totally unreadable.

01:44:51 ◼   ► - And now they feel like they have the confidence

01:44:53 ◼   ► that like, well, this menu bar won't be unreadable

01:44:55 ◼   ► 'cause we have this crazy algorithm

01:44:56 ◼   ► that will like blur everything together

01:44:58 ◼   ► and is aware of contrast and it will just look muddy

01:45:00 ◼   ► and indistinct, but it won't be unreadable.

01:45:01 ◼   ► So no more checkbox to disable that.

01:45:03 ◼   ► And it's like, you know,

01:45:05 ◼   ► there are places where they went too far in this

01:45:09 ◼   ► and there are a bunch of adjustments that are already there,

01:45:11 ◼   ► but none of them sort of,

01:45:13 ◼   ► none of them tune it to be the way we hope it's gonna be

01:45:16 ◼   ► in the next two revisions.

01:45:17 ◼   ► Yeah, that's it. I a few hours before the show started. I linked to koi VIN's

01:45:21 ◼   ► Review of Yosemite, you know most focusing solely on the appearance. I know you hurt my feelings said it was your favorite

01:45:28 ◼   ► Well, I thought that yours doesn't even count. I mean yours is

01:45:32 ◼   ► Anyway, yeah. No, I read this thing when he originally posted but yeah, but I mean it's a similar sentiment

01:45:38 ◼   ► Yeah, it always 10 Balboa and OS 10 palisades are gonna look great. And I think that is totally true. I'm I'm

01:45:45 ◼   ► basically on board completely with the basic style,

01:45:50 ◼   ► but there's definitely some toning back

01:45:51 ◼   ► that I think needs to be done.

01:45:53 ◼   ► - Also my big complaint that I just complained about ATP

01:45:56 ◼   ► is like the transparency effect.

01:45:58 ◼   ► Like I spent a lot of time explaining

01:46:01 ◼   ► what the different kinds of transparency are,

01:46:02 ◼   ► how they work, and then here's how they're deployed

01:46:05 ◼   ► in the OS, right?

01:46:06 ◼   ► And all the stuff about the rearrangements

01:46:08 ◼   ► of the UI and stuff like that.

01:46:08 ◼   ► And then I had this whole section called philosophy,

01:46:10 ◼   ► which is I kind of tried to isolate the part

01:46:12 ◼   ► where I'm gonna like try to unpack this.

01:46:14 ◼   ► Like, here's what it is, here's what it's looked like,

01:46:16 ◼   ► here's where they use it, and then it's like, why?

01:46:18 ◼   ► Why is this there at all?

01:46:20 ◼   ► What is it about what's behind my menu bar

01:46:22 ◼   ► that adds to my life, right?

01:46:24 ◼   ► And you know, why do I need to see that?

01:46:26 ◼   ► Why do I need to see any of that, right?

01:46:29 ◼   ► What is, you know, like,

01:46:30 ◼   ► because there's always some kind of philosophy behind it.

01:46:32 ◼   ► Like the original Aqua, it was like,

01:46:35 ◼   ► transient elements were translucent.

01:46:37 ◼   ► So sheets just appear briefly and go away.

01:46:40 ◼   ► Dropdown menus appear briefly and go away.

01:46:42 ◼   ► Those are translucent, it's a temporary.

01:46:45 ◼   ► - And yeah, there's a logic to it.

01:46:48 ◼   ► - Right, but then on the other hand,

01:46:49 ◼   ► the dock which was always there was also translucent.

01:46:51 ◼   ► So it's just like, well, F-you,

01:46:52 ◼   ► translucency is cool, right?

01:46:54 ◼   ► And here, several times I've asked Apple about the effects

01:46:58 ◼   ► and during the different keynotes,

01:47:00 ◼   ► they've said, here's why we do it.

01:47:01 ◼   ► And they have reasons behind them.

01:47:02 ◼   ► And I have to look at those reasons and say,

01:47:05 ◼   ► is this a reason for you to pollute all of my sidebars

01:47:08 ◼   ► with the color of the desktop background?

01:47:12 ◼   ► Sometimes the justification can work out,

01:47:14 ◼   ► but other times I don't buy it.

01:47:15 ◼   ► Like the whole thing of making the temperature

01:47:19 ◼   ► and mood of your desktop background

01:47:20 ◼   ► influence the look of your OS.

01:47:22 ◼   ► Sounds like, I mean, it's a thing that happens.

01:47:24 ◼   ► It works.

01:47:25 ◼   ► Like if you have a super orange desktop background,

01:47:28 ◼   ► all of your behind the window blending translucent regions

01:47:32 ◼   ► are gonna have a tinge of orange in them.

01:47:34 ◼   ► Your menu bar is gonna be tinged orange.

01:47:35 ◼   ► All the menus you pulled down

01:47:37 ◼   ► are gonna be tinged orange, right?

01:47:39 ◼   ► But like, I don't, you know, that aspect of personalization,

01:47:44 ◼   ► like it maybe just flies in the face of tradition

01:47:48 ◼   ► or whatever, like if I have a desktop picture that I want,

01:47:50 ◼   ► I want my gleaming beautiful interface to be on top of it.

01:47:52 ◼   ► I don't want the desktop picture.

01:47:54 ◼   ► Like I may like it because it's a nice picture, I like it.

01:47:56 ◼   ► But what I don't like is its contribution

01:47:59 ◼   ► to the sidebar of my email client

01:48:01 ◼   ► that now looks like a muddy, rusty, tinged orange thing.

01:48:04 ◼   ► Whereas before it was crisp text on top of

01:48:07 ◼   ► a background color that the app designer had shown.

01:48:08 ◼   ► Yeah, it changes what it means to pick a desktop picture because before it was, "Okay, what

01:48:13 ◼   ► do I want to see when I've got nothing open? Like, I'm done." Like, let's say, like, as

01:48:16 ◼   ► you complete what you have to do today, you keep closing windows and you're closing tabs

01:48:21 ◼   ► and you can quit your email because I'm not going to check it again. And now I've got

01:48:25 ◼   ► nothing and I'm looking at my desktop and this is a picture that makes me happy. That's

01:48:30 ◼   ► all you had to do when you chose your desktop.

01:48:34 ◼   ► Now you've got to pick something that's going to make, like you said, like make the sidebar

01:48:37 ◼   ► and your email client look good when you don't even see the desktop and then this

01:48:41 ◼   ► is a point I have to have to put it in ATP terms I have to do some follow-up

01:48:45 ◼   ► because when guy was on last week I English and we talked about this we

01:48:48 ◼   ► clearly confused the hell out of a lot of people in because we were talking

01:48:53 ◼   ► about the way that if you have like a stack of white windows just like text

01:48:58 ◼   ► edit documents and then you have like mail in front of them and the sidebar of

01:49:03 ◼   ► of mail behind it is just a white window. It still takes a tint from the desktop. That's

01:49:09 ◼   ► what Guy and I were talking about. And that does in terms of not merely making any kind

01:49:13 ◼   ► of logical sense in the world of physics. We weren't, what everybody seemed to think

01:49:18 ◼   ► we said was that it doesn't take any cues from what's right behind it. So if you...

01:49:22 ◼   ► It's mostly what's behind it with a touch of the desktop.

01:49:26 ◼   ► It's mostly what's behind it, directly in the window behind it. So if you have like

01:49:29 ◼   ► a real vibrant purple image, you know, grimace from McDonald's is in the window behind you,

01:49:38 ◼   ► and your mail is in front of it, you're going to have a purple sidebar.

01:49:41 ◼   ► But I end up a lot of times with a lot of white windows, you know, I have editing documents and

01:49:47 ◼   ► stuff like that, or a mail client or eye chatters.

01:49:50 ◼   ► Yeah, but God forbid you have like a safari window with like a dark black blob and then

01:49:55 ◼   ► some white stuff, then the black blob starts showing.

01:49:58 ◼   ► - Right, and if it's not like an entirely black window

01:50:01 ◼   ► where it just makes the whole thing look gray,

01:50:02 ◼   ► if it's just right in the middle,

01:50:04 ◼   ► looks like there's a smudge.

01:50:06 ◼   ► I see it in the messages app every day

01:50:08 ◼   ► when I have transparency on,

01:50:10 ◼   ► because there's, my blue messages are always on the side,

01:50:15 ◼   ► and so up at the top right, there's this blue blur

01:50:18 ◼   ► about it ranging from like an inch or two

01:50:21 ◼   ► that doesn't extend across the whole bar,

01:50:22 ◼   ► and it bothers the hell out of me.

01:50:25 ◼   ► Yeah, here's the analogy I used on ATP last night,

01:50:28 ◼   ► which I probably should have also put in the review,

01:50:30 ◼   ► but didn't.

01:50:32 ◼   ► So there's this whole section on extensions.

01:50:34 ◼   ► And I go through a little bit about the old days

01:50:37 ◼   ► of extensions where they would just invade the memory space

01:50:40 ◼   ► of either the OS or other applications.

01:50:42 ◼   ► And even into the OS 10 days of just like,

01:50:43 ◼   ► every app that launches loads a scripting edition,

01:50:46 ◼   ► which just like runs wild in its memory space

01:50:48 ◼   ► and does some crazy hack to enable window shade

01:50:50 ◼   ► or whatever it's gonna do, right?

01:50:52 ◼   ► And the idea that you would write a program as an application developer,

01:50:57 ◼   ► and then you would test it and debug it and make sure it works correctly,

01:51:01 ◼   ► and then hand it to somebody, and then someone else who you never met

01:51:04 ◼   ► would write a program that invades your program

01:51:06 ◼   ► and changes the way it works and causes a bug in your program,

01:51:08 ◼   ► and then you get a support ticket, or you're like,

01:51:10 ◼   ► "Hey, your text editor has a bug."

01:51:12 ◼   ► And it's like, "Well, no, I totally test that. It doesn't."

01:51:14 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh, well, I'm running this extension,

01:51:16 ◼   ► and this thing written by someone you never met invades your application

01:51:19 ◼   ► and changes the way it behaves, and now it's buggy.

01:51:21 ◼   ► You got to fix it. It's an untenable way to develop software because how can you it's like the halting problem

01:51:27 ◼   ► How can I know what's gonna happen when some program I've never seen before invades my program and changes the way it's behaved

01:51:32 ◼   ► It's impossible for me to write a quote-unquote correct bug-free program in this environment

01:51:36 ◼   ► The develop the designer equivalent of that is I'm gonna make an application

01:51:41 ◼   ► I'll make it look as good as I want

01:51:42 ◼   ► But I have no control over what windows are behind it or what color the person desktop background is

01:51:46 ◼   ► I just got a trust Apple to try to make this into something readable and then I get back to the you know

01:51:50 ◼   ► Why why is it? What is it about the sidebar like I could I can I can buy pull down menus

01:51:55 ◼   ► I can buy sheets I can buy

01:51:57 ◼   ► You know transient things that are floating in but the sidebar seems so a part of the content of the application

01:52:02 ◼   ► Like maybe if it was a slide-out drawer like the old style ones that I could say it was transient

01:52:07 ◼   ► And maybe it should be translucent, but there is nothing about sidebars that says to me

01:52:10 ◼   ► Please show me what's behind you right like they're filled with text like their source lists their text that has to be readable

01:52:17 ◼   ► I do not want to be distracted by the other stuff there and so I

01:52:20 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know, there's no option to turn that off except to turn it off everywhere.

01:52:24 ◼   ► And I pretty much at this point, I feel like I'm on board with the way they use translucency,

01:52:29 ◼   ► even with the stupid tinging and all the drop them, I use everywhere except for sidebars,

01:52:33 ◼   ► because it just seems like a bridge too far.

01:52:35 ◼   ► The other thing that I don't get, I don't get the other use of it. I don't get the in-window

01:52:38 ◼   ► transparency, you know, like in Safari, where all the Chrome at the top of the Safari window

01:52:42 ◼   ► picks up.

01:52:43 ◼   ► Yeah, there's a little bit more justification that of their own doing. As I said, I'm pretty

01:52:47 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure I said this in the review. Once they made scrollbars invisible, the only way you have any indication that there's stuff above or below is if you see something truncated or if you kind of see this dim, you know, wavy image of things that are above or below.

01:52:59 ◼   ► And that bothers me less because toolbars tend to have stronger boundaries, like the toolbar buttons themselves don't let stuff show through on them, so they're gonna be, you know, light, dark markings on light backgrounds, well-defined.

01:53:11 ◼   ► Well-defined there's nothing in the toolbar itself that I need to read that's going to become illegible and uh

01:53:17 ◼   ► Like just scrolling through the review

01:53:20 ◼   ► Like you can kind of see the reason they did this and it's one of the one of the justifications

01:53:23 ◼   ► The philosophy section is that this looks nice like that

01:53:26 ◼   ► It's fashion that it's aesthetics and if you scroll through my yosemite review and when I look at some of these screenshots

01:53:32 ◼   ► I think some of them are really pretty like

01:53:34 ◼   ► The the multiple docs with the different backgrounds or even when i'm trying to show

01:53:39 ◼   ► something that I think is a negative like the same Safari window where they just change tabs and it radically changes what the entire interface

01:53:44 ◼   ► Looks like because the pages are half scrolled up behind the scroll bar. That is a little bit crazy, but the image is beautiful

01:53:50 ◼   ► I think like this has the most interesting screenshots because of the all you know

01:53:54 ◼   ► I I purposely tried to show things in both the best and the worst light like get it to be most

01:53:59 ◼   ► Aesthetically pleasing but show what the extremes are. I

01:54:02 ◼   ► Think it is a really interesting thing to do and but I can only excuse it as

01:54:07 ◼   ► Long as it doesn't start impinging on usability when it doesn't pinch on usability

01:54:11 ◼   ► You better have a good reason other than in some scenarios looks really good. I know in your scenario

01:54:16 ◼   ► It's ugly and you can't turn it off, but in some scenarios. It looks good right and that that

01:54:20 ◼   ► Yeah, well and I just I guess I like the in window transparency a little bit more than the behind window transparency

01:54:29 ◼   ► Because there's a little bit more like you said with the scrolling and a sense of hey there's stuff up there

01:54:34 ◼   ► There's some kind of logic to it. Whereas the sidebar transparency. It just just seems mindless to me. So I think and I've been

01:54:41 ◼   ► as I've gone full-time Yosemite, I think I'm probably going to run with the

01:54:47 ◼   ► the reduced transparency option

01:54:51 ◼   ► And yeah, and that bothers me because that I think I mean it does as I pointed out in the review

01:54:56 ◼   ► It it does look okay like that like it still looks handsome

01:54:59 ◼   ► It shows that this is a sturdy design that does not rely on

01:55:02 ◼   ► Transparency parlor tricks to look nice because it looks it looks perfectly nice and it's solid especially on retina screens with sort of fine

01:55:08 ◼   ► Hair lines about things that contrast is still a little bit low

01:55:10 ◼   ► But otherwise it shows that there's there are you know, there are sturdy bones underneath this design

01:55:15 ◼   ► But it's a shame to give up all the transparency

01:55:17 ◼   ► Effects that I like just to save that one that I don't like and the other thing that bothers me about reduced transparency is those

01:55:23 ◼   ► Are in the accessibility preference paint, right?

01:55:24 ◼   ► And those things are there to help make the interface more usable for people who need that

01:55:30 ◼   ► But I feel like designers are not sweating as much over what things look like with that turned on both third-party and Apple designers

01:55:37 ◼   ► Like that it that it looks clunkier that it looks more like like and that's the way that Windows is like

01:55:41 ◼   ► Well, we'll just do this and I'm sure to look fine and you look at it and there's like details

01:55:45 ◼   ► All right, they're sweating over what it looks like in the default mode

01:55:47 ◼   ► I don't think people are sweating over how any application looks with reduced transparency on like right down to like the overlays for volume changing

01:55:53 ◼   ► With it where the little corners don't have transparency in some situations. Have you seen that? I don't think so

01:55:58 ◼   ► Let me see.

01:56:00 ◼   ► - I should have told you about that because--

01:56:01 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:56:02 ◼   ► - So now can you leave that option on?

01:56:04 ◼   ► Like it's totally counter to the super Apple nerd aesthetic.

01:56:07 ◼   ► Everything has to be beautiful and elegant.

01:56:08 ◼   ► Like stuff like that is around

01:56:10 ◼   ► if you know where to look for it.

01:56:11 ◼   ► - That's horrible.

01:56:12 ◼   ► - Because accessibility is not meant to be like,

01:56:15 ◼   ► it's first and foremost is supposed to make it more usable

01:56:17 ◼   ► at the expense of, you know, perfect aesthetic beauty.

01:56:21 ◼   ► So there is one of your expenses.

01:56:22 ◼   ► Maybe you'll think more about that option.

01:56:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, so when you change the volume and you get that,

01:56:26 ◼   ► what is that like a HUD?

01:56:27 ◼   ► What would you call it?

01:56:28 ◼   ► the temporary overlay, the rounded corners

01:56:31 ◼   ► are just filled in with black.

01:56:32 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's the transparent part of whatever that thing.

01:56:36 ◼   ► - I gotta call that, I bet that's a bug that they'll fix,

01:56:39 ◼   ► but it's a definite sign.

01:56:41 ◼   ► - But that type of thing,

01:56:42 ◼   ► like if you were to file that as a bug,

01:56:43 ◼   ► hey, when I enable this accessibility option,

01:56:45 ◼   ► this thing doesn't look as nice.

01:56:47 ◼   ► They're gonna be like, yeah, but it's, you know,

01:56:49 ◼   ► it's more, it's easier to see, right?

01:56:52 ◼   ► Stuff doesn't show through, right?

01:56:53 ◼   ► That's the point of the accessibility feature.

01:56:55 ◼   ► Feel free to file that bug,

01:56:56 ◼   ► see if they close it as behaves correctly.

01:56:58 ◼   ► - I will, I will.

01:56:59 ◼   ► I thought, and like you said,

01:57:01 ◼   ► I would love to be able to pick and choose

01:57:03 ◼   ► and just turn it off on the sidebars,

01:57:04 ◼   ► 'cause I like the transparency on the menus.

01:57:06 ◼   ► I think it makes, it looks good,

01:57:09 ◼   ► and it makes sense to me that it's temper, you know,

01:57:11 ◼   ► it's just a little thing that,

01:57:14 ◼   ► while I choose this menu command,

01:57:15 ◼   ► it's floating over my thing,

01:57:17 ◼   ► and now that they're solid,

01:57:18 ◼   ► I just checked it right here in front of me.

01:57:20 ◼   ► It doesn't look as nice.

01:57:22 ◼   ► - The text rendering changes, especially on non-retina,

01:57:24 ◼   ► the text rendering changes when you go solid on the menus as well.

01:57:28 ◼   ► And the thing that bothers me about the menu is the tinge of the desktop.

01:57:32 ◼   ► I like the overlays, like the volume changer when transparency is on, the sort of iOS 7

01:57:36 ◼   ► overlay when you pull up control center from the bottom.

01:57:39 ◼   ► It doesn't pull any colors from your desktop background, it's just simply, I am white,

01:57:43 ◼   ► slightly translucent with that cool blur effect.

01:57:45 ◼   ► I wish the menus were like that, because all of my desktop pictures are making my pull

01:57:50 ◼   ► down menus uglier.

01:57:51 ◼   ► Like I'm gonna have to change them even though I love the pictures that are there

01:57:54 ◼   ► Just to pick one that has a different dominant color so that dominant color I can you know

01:57:59 ◼   ► Stomach the side of in all of my pull down menus. Did you turn on?

01:58:02 ◼   ► increase contrast

01:58:05 ◼   ► To play I haven't used it like that. I have to obviously I turned it on for screen. I feel like that one

01:58:09 ◼   ► I know what you're saying that it looks like system six

01:58:12 ◼   ► But it looks like system six made by someone with not a lot of attention to detail as things collide with each other and there's

01:58:17 ◼   ► No spaces between things, because they just sort of draw with a magic marker over the edges and don't read they don't change the metrics

01:58:23 ◼   ► So it's like crowded. There's a whole bunch of things that I think look better

01:58:26 ◼   ► And a whole bunch of things that clearly look worse just in terms of whether it's pleasing to me

01:58:32 ◼   ► And I realize like you said this is it is

01:58:34 ◼   ► Under accessibility for a reason I can actually see clearly how it is an accessibility feature for some people

01:58:40 ◼   ► But I actually like some of the the details of it, but there's others that you know

01:58:45 ◼   ► I can't I don't know why I could rock it full time

01:58:47 ◼   ► It's and and the low contrast that like it's basically the default where everything is super low contrast doesn't it remind you speaking of ie5

01:58:54 ◼   ► Like the days when we were all using bitmap fonts and everything was like well

01:58:57 ◼   ► You're still doing it like a light gray text on a dark gray background

01:59:00 ◼   ► And you know in in ten point for Dana pixel fonts and every like everything was super low

01:59:06 ◼   ► And you could just make it so precious and beautiful

01:59:08 ◼   ► But then when you when you move back from the screen it just faded into a uniform gray haze

01:59:12 ◼   ► And you don't notice it so much in Yosemite until you turn on

01:59:15 ◼   ► Increase contrast you're like whoa those hairlines now jump out at me

01:59:19 ◼   ► And now there's clear delineations and like the toolbar buttons don't fade into the toolbar as much as they used to like

01:59:23 ◼   ► It goes too far on the other direction, but you only notice the low contrast of Yosemite

01:59:28 ◼   ► When you turn on the high current and then turn it back off you're like whoa

01:59:32 ◼   ► No

01:59:32 ◼   ► I feel like I just my night vision went out and now everything's fading into one big blur again

01:59:36 ◼   ► One of the things that most surprised me about Yosemite when they unveiled it at WWDC was that

01:59:42 ◼   ► the general control I call it a control panel system press panel where you

01:59:47 ◼   ► control the basic appearance stuff you know graphite and blue highlight color

01:59:51 ◼   ► and stuff like that I I had my gut feeling was that they were gonna get rid

01:59:56 ◼   ► of all that just as you know go more like iOS like you don't get to pick a

02:00:00 ◼   ► highlight color in iOS you're gonna get blue and you're gonna like it or the app

02:00:04 ◼   ► is going to override it you don't get to pick whether you get blue or gray as a

02:00:08 ◼   ► is a highlight color.

02:00:10 ◼   ► You don't get to pick the color that get--

02:00:12 ◼   ► when you select text, what color is the highlight of the text?

02:00:15 ◼   ► That's the other thing about increased contrast.

02:00:16 ◼   ► It changes your highlight color too.

02:00:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

02:00:19 ◼   ► It's something that I seemingly can't quite figure out

02:00:22 ◼   ► what the rules are for.

02:00:24 ◼   ► I thought they were going to get rid of all that, because I

02:00:27 ◼   ► thought that was sort of-- that's

02:00:28 ◼   ► such an old school consumer feature.