The Talk Show

95: ‘Twenty-One Thousand Words’ With Rene Ritchie


00:00:00   Renee Richie. John Gruber. From iMore. How long was your iOS 8 review? 21,000 words. What?

00:00:07   Holy shit. Yeah, 200 pictures. I need to be put down. 21,000 words. You know,

00:00:15   and I mean this sincerely, not just because you're the guest on the show, but for years I've been

00:00:24   thinking, "Man, wouldn't it be great if somebody wrote iOS reviews each year the way John Siracusit

00:00:32   does Mac OS X reviews?" And I realized that you do. They're all there. They're there all

00:00:37   the way back to iOS 2. It was just called iPhone OS 2 or something like that. And they

00:00:46   are book-length. 21,000 words. Seriously, that's more closer to a book than an article.

00:00:52   I always feel this need to explain things.

00:00:56   Because Apple gives us WWDC sessions and they give us keynotes, but the keynotes are fast

00:01:00   and the WWDC sessions are super geeky.

00:01:02   I just picture my mom or my dad really wanting to find out what's going on and trying to

00:01:06   write that for them.

00:01:09   That's true.

00:01:10   I don't know.

00:01:15   These OS updates are getting...

00:01:16   Well, they've always been deep.

00:01:18   But like Iowa 7 to Iowa 8, there is so much.

00:01:22   And from a marketing perspective, Apple really just can't cover it in detail.

00:01:26   They can't publish 21,000 words about it.

00:01:30   You know?

00:01:31   And it's like they're moving so effectively year over year that it is – I think it's

00:01:39   truly a challenge to keep up.

00:01:40   You know, I take the Syracuse thing as a huge compliment.

00:01:43   I can't say that I'm anywhere nearly as competent as he is to write these things, but I think

00:01:50   that's exactly it.

00:01:51   They are so, especially something like extensibility and how it works in the container apps and

00:01:56   the host apps and how the security and privacy is handled are really complicated topics.

00:02:01   And I watch those sessions four or five times each because I want to understand them better.

00:02:06   And the writing process is sort of me digesting and figuring out what it all means.

00:02:10   Yeah.

00:02:11   I almost mean it the other way.

00:02:12   I do mean it as a compliment.

00:02:14   I mean it as a profound compliment,

00:02:15   but I almost worry that the way that I pose it,

00:02:18   that I say, hey, it took me years to realize this,

00:02:21   that we already had somebody doing it and it's you.

00:02:23   I almost worry that that comes across as an insult

00:02:26   because I say it took me years to realize it.

00:02:28   And I think, and I don't mean it as an insult in any way,

00:02:31   but I do think that maybe the reason

00:02:33   it didn't dawn on me right away

00:02:34   is that your style is so much more understated.

00:02:40   It is a very, you know, you personally are almost out of the picture.

00:02:46   And it's a, I know that this word in terms of journalism is grossly overused,

00:02:53   but it's a much more objective viewpoint.

00:02:55   And with Sirkusa, he's always there, right?

00:03:00   It is, it's Mac OS X reviews very specifically from his perspective.

00:03:09   and as it pertains to his obsessions.

00:03:12   - Well, he's got an amazing authorial voice.

00:03:15   I mean, he talks the way that he writes,

00:03:18   and you always know it's exactly John.

00:03:21   And I have my biases, I try to state my biases up front

00:03:25   and own them, but I think there's just so much to cover

00:03:28   that I have to get out of my own way when I do it.

00:03:32   - Yeah, I totally agree.

00:03:33   So a lot of writing.

00:03:35   It's good because this way I can have someone on the show

00:03:37   who wrote more than I did this week.

00:03:38   Yeah, especially the watch piece and the iPhone review,

00:03:41   those were amazing.

00:03:43   - Yeah, oh, thank you, thank you.

00:03:44   It was both, and I really did write them both

00:03:47   in one waking day from like around one in the afternoon

00:03:52   till six a.m., just one after another.

00:03:55   I had notes all over the place from the eight days prior.

00:04:00   I mean, it's certainly like I didn't start writing

00:04:02   in a vacuum, but all I had were notes and wrote them both.

00:04:06   I think they were both like a little over 4,000 words. So like 8,000 words in one working day, which is

00:04:13   Needless to say unusual

00:04:16   I like the watch one

00:04:16   Especially because we've had people who cover smart watches right about them and we've had people like from Hodaki who do cover watches right about them

00:04:24   but you made a really salient point in your piece that that

00:04:27   these two cultures are gonna clash in the middle and you poked some fun my friend Phil Nickenson yesterday and

00:04:32   rightly so because he was saying that you know the $70 watch band was a hefty price and

00:04:37   People have no idea what's coming when these two industries emerge. I think you see I put it I posted a clarification

00:04:43   Yes today and and the point because I think it was I could I think it was misinterpreted where

00:04:49   I'm not cheerleading or clapping or

00:04:54   Smugly sitting with my arms folded about the idea of multi thousand dollar Apple watches

00:05:01   I'm just saying I think that that's what's coming whether you like it or not

00:05:04   Whether you have a strong opinion on it or not, whether you think that's cool whether you think it's ridiculous or preposterous

00:05:08   But I do think and again like something like a band that costs

00:05:14   $500 if you think that's hefty I would I would agree that's that's you know, I don't think no matter what your income of

00:05:20   Three-four five hundred dollar band just the band is you know hefty hefty is a decent word for that

00:05:26   and

00:05:28   And in my research for the watch piece,

00:05:32   I was looking at things like, what does it cost to get

00:05:34   an actual Rolex stainless steel, no precious metals,

00:05:38   but stainless steel replacement band.

00:05:41   And they sell for at least $2,500,

00:05:43   'cause I think the ones you can find online

00:05:45   are sort of gray market,

00:05:46   because authorized dealers for Rolex

00:05:50   and other brands like that don't advertise prices.

00:05:52   But let's just say that's in the ballpark.

00:05:56   If you want to think that that's exorbitant,

00:06:00   I'd see exactly what you mean.

00:06:02   I may not necessarily agree,

00:06:04   but I can totally see the reason of somebody.

00:06:07   I could say that's a reasonable position to take

00:06:09   that nobody should buy a watch

00:06:10   that the band alone costs $2,500.

00:06:12   Totally reasonable.

00:06:14   I don't necessarily agree, but it's reasonable.

00:06:16   But $80?

00:06:17   $80 is right there smack in the middle

00:06:19   of the mainstream watch market.

00:06:22   - That's absolutely true.

00:06:23   I have another friend, Kevin, and he collects watches.

00:06:25   He has six or seven years like omegas and Panerais and Rolexes and other brands whose

00:06:30   names escape me.

00:06:32   But when he first heard about the Apple watch he loves technology and he said though he

00:06:36   was not going to buy one unless they had one that was in the thousands of dollars because

00:06:39   it wasn't the kind of watch that he was interested in.

00:06:42   And now when he read your piece specifically he said that it made him even more inclined

00:06:46   to buy it and he's like frankly the more expensive they get the more appealing that is to him

00:06:50   as someone who loves watches.

00:06:52   Yeah.

00:06:53   Well anyway, we're only a couple minutes in but here it's impossible for us in one show even by the the ever-growing length of

00:07:01   episodes of this show

00:07:02   there's no way that we can talk about everything and I think the watch is unfortunately going to be meet the

00:07:08   cutting floor because

00:07:11   The phones are new I've had them for a week

00:07:13   iOS 8 is out and is new and you have covered it. I think it's fair to say more extensively than anybody else maybe

00:07:22   Federico would only be the only other person I could think of whose whose depth of coverage of iOS 8 is in the same ballpark

00:07:29   And I think we'll be lucky to I don't think we'll be lucky to finish on time even with just those two things

00:07:35   And we could talk about the event itself, which I didn't really cover and I usually like to do

00:07:41   and maybe that's

00:07:44   Where we can start

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00:10:32   All right, so the event yeah in the Flint Center

00:10:36   Big mystery white box out front for a while

00:10:39   You were there. I think you were sitting two seats down from me right? Where were you next to me now?

00:10:44   I think I'm you Clayton you and Jim

00:10:46   Right me you

00:10:48   Clayton Morris and

00:10:50   Jim Dowell ripple

00:10:52   Now getting invited to these sort of events now

00:10:56   That's how many times have you been to like a keynote with a press badge twice?

00:11:00   It's my second and the first one was ww DC so that you know

00:11:04   It's you know, I hesitate to say new Apple, but it is a an evolved Apple

00:11:11   I would say new implies like a change in direction. I would say it's more of an

00:11:15   Expansion of a direction they were already in. Yeah. No, I think that's absolutely fair

00:11:20   It's it's sort of like some of the constraints have fallen away from them

00:11:24   Yeah, and there you know

00:11:26   Openness is indeed the right word now. I compare this all the way back to

00:11:30   the original iPhone 2007 the original iPhone 2007 review units were only given to I think four people

00:11:38   I think it was Ed Begg at USA Today pogue at the Times Mossberg then at the journal and

00:11:43   Steven Levy at Newsweek that was it

00:11:47   they were the only four people and the entire planet who got a review unit of the the original iPhone and

00:11:54   I would say even for a few years after that the the people who were on the list of

00:12:00   You'll get pre. You know a review unit a week or two weeks before it actually comes out was limited to

00:12:06   Established long established print periodicals even if most people nowadays that even those days were reading them online and

00:12:16   Then slowly they started adding people from online only publications. You know the in gadgets and

00:12:23   people like me and and Dalrymple and stuff like that. Nantec. Yeah, and on and it's you know so

00:12:34   that's why I say and and clearly what they've done is they have greatly expanded the list of

00:12:39   members of the press who are getting invited to these events it's no longer I still say I think

00:12:44   it's still selective I can't even imagine how many requests they get that they turn down but

00:12:50   I think it's opened up in a way and I think in a right way where it's people who should have been I think it's

00:12:54   You know long overdue that you've been you've gotten invited to stuff like this

00:12:58   Daniel Dilgar from

00:13:02   Apple insider

00:13:05   Has I think maybe I don't know if WWDC was the first but it's you know

00:13:09   Certainly within the last year that he started getting ready Caldwell, too

00:13:11   Yep, Serenity

00:13:14   Well surrounded Macworld's gotten invitations for a long time

00:13:17   Yeah, but they it's I'm never sure with Apple whether it's the publication or the journalists that they're inviting

00:13:22   It's both is my feeling

00:13:26   I don't think I think it's sort of the equivalent of asking whether Apple is a hardware software company

00:13:31   You know, it's both because like for example

00:13:35   mg, Siegler when he was full-time at TechCrunch was getting invited and

00:13:42   Then when he left tech crunch, but before he joined Google

00:13:45   He still got invited even when he wasn't a full-time person at Ryan block to when he left in gadget

00:13:50   Yeah, he's another good example. Yeah, perfect example

00:13:54   I

00:13:57   It's clearly though and I can't help

00:14:00   We taught a bunch of us because we had like an hour to burn before the event milling about I mean

00:14:05   It's you know what and that's what we do we sit there and insider

00:14:09   gossip but it's it's almost impossible not to draw a conclusion that it has

00:14:13   something really you know that this expansion of the list and less

00:14:16   exclusivity has something to do with Katie cotton's departure it was also a

00:14:21   much bigger venue than they've used for iPhone events in the past and often you

00:14:25   know at least you know they would cite capacity issues but they made sure they

00:14:28   had room for 2,000 odd people including fashion bloggers and you introduced me

00:14:34   to the gentleman from Hodaki, the watch bloggers were there too. Right. Yeah, you

00:14:39   know, I didn't know Ben Clymer personally, but I'll even know I've been a fan of

00:14:44   his site for a very long time. But I actually thought about introducing

00:14:49   myself to him in advance, just sending an email. I don't, you know, I don't even

00:14:52   know if I could assume that he's, you know, familiar with Daring Fireball, but

00:14:56   maybe, but even if not, I would, you know, take the point that just saying what I

00:14:59   do. And just saying, "Hey, did you get an invitation to this event?" Because I

00:15:02   I thought that would have been a surefire tell

00:15:06   that they were gonna do a watch.

00:15:07   I can't help but think too, the fact that Guy,

00:15:10   and maybe he couldn't say, maybe he got an invitation

00:15:12   that said he can't talk about it,

00:15:13   but I think the fact that Ben Clymer was there,

00:15:16   and presumably other people from the watch world,

00:15:20   is why the fact that they were gonna do a watch

00:15:24   leaked within about the last week.

00:15:26   - Sure.

00:15:27   - 'Cause even just a month prior,

00:15:30   When I suggested that maybe they would do the wearable

00:15:34   at the September event,

00:15:35   even though all the previous rumors

00:15:36   said it would be an October thing,

00:15:39   and it was like a big deal for a day that I'd said that,

00:15:42   everybody was expecting October, right?

00:15:44   And then all of a sudden, about a week before,

00:15:46   it was like, oh yeah, they're definitely gonna do a watch.

00:15:48   And I can't help but think it's because

00:15:49   they started inviting people.

00:15:51   - Yeah, well, I mean, that joke comment that you made

00:15:54   was terrific.

00:15:55   I mean, that propagated incredibly quickly

00:15:58   across the internet.

00:16:00   Yeah, well, it really was, though.

00:16:02   It wasn't just that anybody told it to me.

00:16:04   It was honestly just the hunch that it would make sense as a single event.

00:16:09   Here's this thing where you can do touch ID on your phone.

00:16:12   Here's this thing to pay.

00:16:15   Because I knew the payments thing was coming.

00:16:16   And it just seemed like, well, why not do it with the watch?

00:16:19   And same thing with all the health tracking.

00:16:21   Whereas I don't see how the watch would fit with an iPad and Yosemite event in October.

00:16:26   Yeah, if it's gonna be a companion product specifically for the iPhone that it makes sense to do in the iPhone event

00:16:31   Yeah, and that's the other thing too. I did see I that I didn't know, you know

00:16:35   Nobody knew in advance that it was going to be a hey you need you need an iPhone to fully use the Apple watch

00:16:41   All right, you know they've said to use it period

00:16:44   even though a lot of its functionality is not dependent on have it being within proximity of the phone, but

00:16:53   Yeah, that makes sense too and it's not surprising

00:16:56   No

00:16:56   and it was it was a really strange morning because you and I and I think we were standing with Jason's tonight on a couple other

00:17:01   People and we noticed that Apple was quasi live blogging their own event, which I've never seen before

00:17:06   That's totally new, you know, and I you know, I've always thought that like you said with the capacity that they cite, you know

00:17:13   Well, we have it here because we can't find a bigger place. I

00:17:17   Don't recall and and Jason snow and I were talking about this and Snell seems to think that they might have done this at some

00:17:23   Point but I can't recall them ever using Moscone West other than as a keynote from Macworld Expo or WWDC

00:17:30   when the dub when you know

00:17:33   Moscone has already been

00:17:36   rented out

00:17:37   That they've never and I think you know and he said he thinks maybe they have but it's hard because if somebody else like in

00:17:44   last week for example Intel had a developers conference at Moscone West so

00:17:48   they couldn't have had they literally could not have done it but I don't think

00:17:51   they've ever done that and that's a huge room potentially other than that they

00:17:56   I've in all the years I've been going to these things I've never seen one that

00:17:59   was in an event a venue as large as the Flint Sun and it's historic for Apple

00:18:03   too because they made a point of pointing out this is where the Mac and

00:18:06   the iMac are introduced right the biggest surprise to me and the sign that

00:18:14   Apple PR has you know truly evolved and changed what was

00:18:18   That Brian Lamb was invited. Yeah now at the great great wire cutter site

00:18:24   And I think it's great that he did but the reason that's remarkable

00:18:28   Is that he's the guy who was running gizmodo back when they had their hands on the stolen iPhone from the the bar

00:18:36   Where the Apple engineer had left it and he's the guy who answered the phone when Steve Jobs

00:18:41   Personally called and said give me back my phone and said no, you know

00:18:45   We want something from you before we give it back to you

00:18:47   The fact that he's now off the shit list and on the invitation list is remarkable

00:18:53   I even with all of the expansion of it even with the return of gizmodo

00:18:57   Because everybody who was there back then has gone from gizmodo now they've you know, the Gawker sites go through, you know employees, you know like

00:19:07   Butter churning. Yeah, even if you believe the penalty box is expired on gizmodo

00:19:11   You never quite sure if the ban on that specific player has been lifted exactly

00:19:15   You know, and I think it's right. I think you know forgive and forget, you know

00:19:19   Brian lamb is doing very different work and much better work these days and why not but I just no way I

00:19:25   Cannot believe that that would have happened if Katie was still there again

00:19:28   It feels sort of like a huge constraint that had been on them has been lifted and they can do a lot of the things

00:19:34   that they probably thought would have been cool and fun a long time ago, like the countdown timer

00:19:37   on apple.com. Yeah, totally. Yeah, and the live blog. Yes. I half suspected Anand would pull out

00:19:43   a computer and start live blogging it right from the floor with us. Did you see him? No,

00:19:47   he wasn't there apparently. Oh, I didn't know that. I looked around for him, but it was so

00:19:51   many people that I'm surprised I found as many people, friends that I knew before the event as

00:19:57   I did. It was so crazy. I took a panoramic picture and a couple people comment and I twittered it and

00:20:03   And a couple people said it looks like one of the Disney World theme parks in the morning

00:20:09   before they open the gates, when thousands of people show up to try to get on the rides

00:20:14   first.

00:20:15   And it really did.

00:20:18   Some people were saying, and Apple's a little cagey, I think, about stuff like this, is

00:20:21   like, how many people actually were there?

00:20:24   I don't think they...

00:20:25   They don't like to answer stuff like that.

00:20:26   But somebody said that they had a capacity twice that of Yerba Buena.

00:20:30   I don't see how that's possible, though.

00:20:32   It has to be more than twice I think because I've been to your babuena events many times and I've never seen

00:20:37   Half that many people there. I've you know, it seems like a third or even fewer someone mentioned it sees between

00:20:43   2,000 and 2,400 and I saw later some people that I know some friends had were there

00:20:48   And they tweeted that they were there and I did not see them at all throughout the entire course of the event

00:20:53   There's so many yeah

00:20:55   The other thing that I thought too is there were a lot more Apple people there too even with this

00:21:00   expansion in the list of press who were there to cover it which is definitely

00:21:04   True they invited way more Apple people to be there like when at the end when Tim Cook said hey everybody who's it from Apple

00:21:11   Please do me a favor stand up right now

00:21:13   Seem like half the crowd stood up

00:21:15   Yeah

00:21:15   Apparently they had an internal lottery in some of the departments because they couldn't get everybody so you'd get a chance to go and a

00:21:20   Bunch of people got picked. It was really nice to see

00:21:22   So, you know after you know, it's a almost a week and a half now as we record this

00:21:29   Looking back on how do you what are your thoughts on the event as a whole?

00:21:32   I think the event I have sort of two trains of thought about it one is that I think

00:21:36   The stuff itself was really really interesting the stuff they showed off the iPhones

00:21:41   It was similar to when they finally went from AT&T to Verizon

00:21:45   They finally went from a 4-inch to larger iPhones and you can argue whether they should have done that earlier

00:21:50   I think they had really good timing

00:21:51   but also it wasn't quite

00:21:53   like the iPad or the iPhone event and I think specifically the iPad event because Steve Jobs was so careful to say

00:21:59   This is your phone. This is your laptop

00:22:02   This is the tablet and this is what it does better than both those things and this is the reason it has to exist

00:22:07   And with the iPhone it was you know

00:22:09   these are the old keyboards and this is why they're wrong and the old input methods and technologies and why they're wrong and

00:22:15   for the phones and the

00:22:17   Watch we got a list of really amazing features, but there was never that one moment where?

00:22:23   Tim Cook or anybody at Apple said this is this is the the reason this has to

00:22:28   exist for the iPhone 6 yeah or the iPhone 6 or the iWatch I mean I think it

00:22:33   was clear like we can extrapolate it like the iWatch is clearly

00:22:36   convenience and the iPhone 6 is clearly a higher class of software eventually but

00:22:41   it was never stated outright on a single slide or in a single sort of slogan I

00:22:44   think for two very different reasons though I think with the iPhones it's

00:22:50   they're not hard for anybody who's used an iPhone to get their heads around the

00:22:56   screen is either bigger or way bigger and the camera is better and they get

00:23:03   better battery life and they're thinner and sleeker and right you could pretty

00:23:07   much stop right there I you know it it's you know I don't think I wasted any

00:23:15   words in my review but I think that a very short overview can get across 85% of what

00:23:21   most people would want to know about these phones. The iPhone 6 is bigger, gets a little

00:23:26   bit better battery life. The screen is nicely improved in terms of viewing angles and color

00:23:32   and stuff like that. The camera is better. That's it. You can get it in higher storage

00:23:39   capacities. And then the iPhone 6 Plus, it's way bigger. If you want like a new style device

00:23:45   that's like a two-handed iPhone size, more like a mini tablet, and you're going to get

00:23:51   a couple more hours of battery life per day because the battery is so humongous, there's

00:23:58   a new class iPhone for you. And stop right there, and I think that covers what it means

00:24:02   for 85% of the people.

00:24:04   Yeah, I agree completely. I think my only reservation is that you're never sure, we

00:24:09   all live in bubbles of various sizes and I have a Nexus 5 and I have a Lumia 1020 and

00:24:14   I have, I've used Galaxy Notes and Galaxy Megas and things like that, the big phones,

00:24:19   so I'm a little bit familiar with them. But I think a lot of people who've only bought

00:24:22   iPhones are only familiar with the 3.5 and 4-inch size and to hear why Apple didn't continue

00:24:29   that like why they went to the bigger screen. I think you know there's a productivity argument

00:24:35   to be made for the iPhone 6 Plus but even the iPhone 6 there's a there's a really brief statement

00:24:41   about we're gonna give you more we're gonna give you a bigger window into the internet and into

00:24:46   apps it would have just eased a little bit of the stress that people had when oh my you know instead

00:24:50   of saying oh my god they abandoned the 4-inch it'd be oh wow this is so much more that I can do now

00:24:54   with 4.7. Yeah and I've been thinking about that you know maybe even close to

00:25:00   a year ever since it became so strongly rumored that they were gonna go to two

00:25:05   sizes 4.7 and 5.5 and not have a next generation model at the 4 inch size.

00:25:13   I've been thinking for a long time you know the whole the whole year well I

00:25:17   like 4.0 inches and 4.0 inches is the size of the most best-selling the best

00:25:27   selling most profitable phone in the world because that's what the iPhone 5s

00:25:32   was yeah you know and the iPhone 5c was like I don't know like third like the

00:25:37   third best-selling and most profitable smartphone in the world like three two

00:25:41   out of the top three selling phones in the world were 4.0 inches last year and

00:25:48   they've now they've just let and you know one I asked about this and one of

00:25:52   the things I was told was well we haven't left her behind we still have

00:25:54   those phones they're just moved down the line and including the fact that you can

00:25:58   buy the a new 5s at 32 gigabytes not just at 16 for $49 more it's a hundred

00:26:06   and forty nine dollars on contract and that's not entirely new either because

00:26:10   the 5c when it was as a brand new device last year it came in 16 and 32 gigabyte sizes too

00:26:17   but i feel like that's a little bit more of a it just seems to me like a little bit more of a hedge

00:26:23   now yeah it's an escape hatch if you're not quite ready to grow with apple to the largest

00:26:27   screen sizes yet right so i don't know i wonder if they're gonna wait and look at what people

00:26:32   buy and what how things go or what they're thinking like it wouldn't totally i i would

00:26:38   expect that next year we're just gonna get s I don't know if they'll use an s

00:26:43   but equivalent iPhone 6s and iPhone 6s plus and the two new phones will be

00:26:49   these sizes I don't expect there to be you know them to go back to 4.0 inches

00:26:57   it sounds to me like they've said here's the at this point with the technology

00:27:01   where technologies evolved where prices have evolved on screens what's the best

00:27:05   sweet spot to hit the most people with the least amount of choice, these are the two

00:27:10   sizes they've decided on, I think. But I wouldn't be shocked if they have a 4.0, call it the

00:27:17   iPhone 6 mini. And it's this rounded form factor, but at a four inch size. It wouldn't

00:27:26   shock me, but I don't expect it.

00:27:29   No, and I think it's interesting, and you had a good post before the event on what you

00:27:34   thought the screen sizes would be and why.

00:27:36   And it reminded me the first time I read it of when Steve Jobs was talking about the difference

00:27:40   between the iPad and Android tablets when they were just basically expanding the interface.

00:27:46   And he was saying that with the iPad and the split view controller it allowed a higher

00:27:50   class of software.

00:27:52   And when I saw the iPhone 6 Plus turn sideways and you get that split view controller it

00:27:57   reminded me of the same thing.

00:27:58   These bigger sizes, Apple is only doing it with the iPhone 6 Plus but developers can

00:28:03   do it with any size that they want now with the new adaptive UI that it will allow for

00:28:07   a higher class of software but that sort of necessitates a larger screen especially for

00:28:12   anybody who doesn't have really good really young eyes.

00:28:15   Yeah well I don't think there's no way that that split view would work on the 4.0 in size.

00:28:22   They show it in one in that WWDC session in a demo app and it does look but it's that

00:28:27   16.9 aspect ratio that is wasteful in some interfaces on the iPhone in landscape mode

00:28:33   And the split screen just seems to fix that one problem.

00:28:35   Yeah, especially with the keyboard up.

00:28:38   Because there's a minimum height to a usable keyboard.

00:28:41   And on the 4.0 inch size, when you're horizontal, it's at least half the screen.

00:28:46   Whereas on the two new phones, it's not, you know, it leaves a lot more room above it.

00:28:52   Because they don't, the keyboard isn't the same relative size.

00:28:54   It's more like the same physical height.

00:28:57   Yeah, and it is that compromise that I think, you know, you spoke about earlier where it

00:29:02   is bigger to carry around but the iPhone 6 Plus specifically you turn around and get

00:29:07   that iPad style layout you are gaining productivity out of that compromise

00:29:11   yeah I'm looking at the 6 Plus in my hands right now and with the keyboard up

00:29:17   in landscape mode horizontal mode it's a little bit more than a third but it's

00:29:22   way less than half there's way more usable screen real estate above the

00:29:27   keyboard on this. The iPhone 5 and 5s maybe really claustrophobic with

00:29:32   keyboard up in landscape mode. Yeah, I you know and that might be the main reason

00:29:36   why I say I never use my iPhone in landscape other than what things were

00:29:41   you know like videos or watching videos or playing games. Likewise. The only thing

00:29:47   I ever ever do in landscape is sometimes with a web page that doesn't really even

00:29:52   with double tap to zoom the text is too small I'll turn it sideways to be able

00:29:56   to read it and that's it. I can't think of anything else that I do in landscape.

00:30:01   No, I'm exactly the same way which is why that that 16.9

00:30:05   Aspect ratio is so good for those few specific things, but the top the other portrait is much better for the rest

00:30:12   Yeah

00:30:12   And I think it shows for example in Vesper like Vesper doesn't support landscape because I think Dave and Brent feel the same way

00:30:19   And I think that's come to bite us on the ass now because I on these bigger phones

00:30:25   it really feels weird that an app doesn't support landscape and maybe it's just because as

00:30:30   reviewing the phones over the past week I was doing it a lot just for the sake of seeing what it's like but

00:30:35   It no longer feels silly or some kind of concession to people with particularly

00:30:40   Big thumbs or something like that. It feels like it's a first-class part of the iPhone interface

00:30:47   Yeah, well a big hint to that

00:30:48   I think you know the original iPhone didn't even let

00:30:50   Let almost nothing go into landscape what I think Safari did in the video app almost nothing

00:30:54   But now even the home screen does on the iPhone 6 plus. I think that's a big hint for people

00:30:59   Yeah, I like and it's that's kind of neat too. I like it

00:31:02   And I like the way that the the doc is always on the right

00:31:05   Yeah as somebody who on the Mac has always always worn his dock on the right

00:31:08   It feels very natural the iPad moves it around with you, but it feels very natural on where's your dock on your Mac?

00:31:14   My doc on my Mac is on the left hand side, but hidden most of the time

00:31:18   Left I know Renee. All right this I'm gonna get a new guest. I'll fix it

00:31:22   Now you're off. You're off the show left hand doc. Oh, it's gross

00:31:28   Now, I don't know. I have always been a right-hand doc person and I'm glad that's where they put it on that phone

00:31:33   I actually I have it on one of my Macs at the bottom and one of it is on the left

00:31:36   Yeah bottom is acceptable

00:31:38   Although I still think it's weird

00:31:40   The left is just because I forget which one it is

00:31:42   But one of them has that really wide screen and it just seemed to I want more vertical pixel

00:31:46   So I got it off the bottom and I just stuck it on the left

00:31:48   my problem with doc on the bottom has always been that all every Mac screen is

00:31:54   Horizontal and so vertical real estate is always at more of a premium than horizontal real estate

00:32:00   So why not put it on the side? But anyway, that's neither here

00:32:02   Anyway back to the event, I think if they needed to if the watch let's say that come August 1st

00:32:12   When they really needed to say, okay, what are we gonna do next month?

00:32:16   All right, and if they had said, you know what the watch just isn't ready even for a pre announcement

00:32:22   It's not you know, we got to scrap it

00:32:24   They could have had an event similar to previous iPhone events and then you know include Apple pay

00:32:32   Just the iPhones and Apple pay and it would have been fine. Yeah, it would have I think it would have been in the smaller venue

00:32:38   I don't think they would have taken the Flint Center and

00:32:40   I think Schiller could have easily gone

00:32:43   60 minutes instead of 30 minutes talking about features on the phones and what's improved. Yeah, and they could he would Craig recapitulate

00:32:51   WWDC's he's done several years in a row. Yeah, I don't think so though because I think that's waiting

00:32:56   I think we will see that in in

00:32:58   October but I feel like that would have been harder to do because at WWDC they can talk about you know

00:33:04   Look, all this stuff is all beta right the the handoff and

00:33:08   all the other

00:33:11   What's it called the the catch-all phrase for all of these not extensibility that it starts with the C

00:33:18   continuity continuity all these continuity features I don't think that

00:33:23   they could do it in a September event where iOS is no longer beta but Yosemite

00:33:28   yeah very true I think it had I think that the Federiki stuff you know demoing

00:33:32   all the continuity stuff has got to wait for October I think it could have just

00:33:36   been you know Shiller doing stuff on the phone like he has in past years and

00:33:39   maybe you know add add Tim Cook's usual preamble with the sort of state of the

00:33:44   company could have had a 90-minute event with you know maybe 50 minutes of iPhone

00:33:50   6 and you know the the rest of it Apple pay and it would have been fine that's

00:33:55   very true because in previous years cook would he'd go over all the results he'd

00:33:58   make fun of Android a little bit he do each show an Apple store opening with a

00:34:02   nice video and this year he said and you know I think it's worth pointing out you

00:34:06   know Apple's doing fine and then they got right into the iPhone yeah and sure

00:34:10   I mean he was flying I thought I mean I thought it you know

00:34:14   I don't wouldn't say he was rushed and he was polished, but that was a really really concise

00:34:18   I mean it was I think it measured almost exactly 30 minutes, and that's really short

00:34:23   And it's almost remarkable how soon they got into it

00:34:26   it was only like seven minutes into the thing and all of us including three minutes of it for a

00:34:30   purely promotional video at the beginning

00:34:33   And it was like here here they are here's what you know, here's what they here's what they look like

00:34:39   like here's what they do here's what's new and back to Tim and he was off the

00:34:44   stage and you you remarked on it at the time but it was impeccable it was on the

00:34:47   30 minutes they finished on the two hour mark it was perfect yeah it was a very

00:34:51   tight event I mean I cuz you know two hours is to them and I think rightly so

00:34:56   it's like the upper limit and if they do a rehearsal and it's two hours and ten

00:35:00   minutes no matter how uncuttable it seems ten minutes of stuff is gonna get

00:35:04   cut yeah absolutely let's take a second break and and we'll get back to this and

00:35:13   I guess maybe interrupt the idea of going through the show and talk a little

00:35:17   bit more about the the new iPhones sure I want to talk about a second sponsor

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00:38:40   good friends of the show so did you order an iPhone six I did I ordered my

00:38:45   phone six plus you got a six plus so what made you go plus I sort of want to

00:38:50   I want to try it because it is so new and then there have been big phones on

00:38:54   the market before but Apple's take on it I find really interesting I love the

00:38:58   idea of the split view controller in landscape mode and I like the idea of

00:39:01   the longer battery because you know especially when we go to conferences or

00:39:04   events. I'm roaming most of the time and the radio is just screaming and draining

00:39:08   the battery. That and the optical image stabilization, I don't know how big a

00:39:12   deal that'll be on the camera but I'm really I really interested in trying it

00:39:15   out. Yeah Matthew Panzarinos examples were pretty good I thought at that. Yeah.

00:39:19   You know and it looks like you get an extra stop or two and it you know can

00:39:25   help you shoot at a significantly lower ISO speed even in low light. Honestly

00:39:31   having spent a week with him I wasn't even tempted by I guess I had to order I

00:39:35   ordered on Friday night so I'd only been or Thursday night so I'd only had it for

00:39:39   three three days at that point but there was no no doubt in my mind that I wanted

00:39:43   a regular iPhone 6 I think that's the safe not the safe choice is the wrong

00:39:47   word I think that that is the right choice for most people I think it looks

00:39:51   like a lot of people are going for the 6 plus and I'm not sure whether that's

00:39:54   because they really want a 5.5 inch phone or because they just assume that

00:39:59   they just feel like every time Apple puts out a new phone, they're going to get the

00:40:02   most expensive one or what they assume is the flagship phone.

00:40:06   Dave: Yeah. It's one of those things. Apple reveals more than most companies, but there's

00:40:10   no way that I expect them to reveal the split between the 6 and the 6 Plus because I think

00:40:15   that's highly competitive data. But I would be fascinated to know it. I would also be

00:40:21   fascinated to know how it changes over time because my hunch is that the early adopter

00:40:27   crowd who does things like pre-order one of these before they've ever seen one in the

00:40:34   flesh.

00:40:35   Which I would be doing if I had even if I hadn't had the review units already.

00:40:39   I would have been pre-ordering anyway.

00:40:42   But let's face it that's sort of a crazy thing to do.

00:40:45   Normal people don't go and buy you know six, seven, eight hundred, nine hundred dollar

00:40:51   devices that they haven't even put in their hands yet.

00:40:56   I think that crowd skews towards the bigger size because they're it's it's I don't know

00:41:01   It's just more nerdy that they you know, they do more work on their phone. It's a little bit less of a

00:41:07   Passive device and more of an active device. Yeah

00:41:10   Well, there seems to be two groups of people and one is people who can only have one device and this is a group

00:41:15   That's been really popular in Southeast Asia

00:41:17   And those are essentially lower cost large phones because they have to have a phone

00:41:23   They just they need it to basically to live and to communicate

00:41:26   But they want as big a screen size as possible and then you have people in North America who are they just want something

00:41:32   That's a small tablet that they can carry around and according to people like Ben Beharin

00:41:36   The large size phones like the galaxy note size phones have never sold well in North America previously

00:41:41   so it'll be interesting to see if that's because there's no Apple phone in that category or if it's really because that category only appeals to

00:41:47   a niche market in the industry. Yeah, I

00:41:51   I didn't mention this in my review. It's in my notes.

00:41:54   And I left it out because it seemed, you know, it was long enough and it's, you know, sometimes you got to start cutting stuff.

00:42:02   But I think it is going to severely cannibalize sales of the iPad Mini.

00:42:11   And I say this as somebody who has used the iPad Mini as my personal, my only personal iPad ever since it came out two years ago.

00:42:20   I even went with the mini that first year when it was not retina and I'd already gotten used to the retina display and

00:42:27   You know which was a huge trade-off, but I like that size for what I use an iPad for primarily which is okay

00:42:36   I'm done working for the day in my office here at home now

00:42:39   I'm downstairs and I still want to read some stuff. You know, I still want to you know do some stuff

00:42:46   But I'm just sitting around the house on the couch or in an armchair or something like that and I want to use an iPad

00:42:51   I love the mini for that. I

00:42:53   but I think though overall it is

00:42:56   That this device is too close to the mini and if you if you have it the mini just seems pointless

00:43:03   I think that's very true

00:43:05   I think what else it'll take a while to happen because I think the iPhone

00:43:08   6 plus is gonna be supply constrained or at least you'll have much higher constraint than though it already

00:43:13   Yeah right now if you order today

00:43:15   It's already at least I didn't even check today. But yesterday I checked and it that I was Wednesday the 17th

00:43:20   it was already quoting three to four weeks and

00:43:24   iPhone 6 was only quoting three to four days. Yeah

00:43:29   So I think it'll take a while before

00:43:32   There's widespread adoption and people who get it not all of them may like it

00:43:35   Some of them might decide to go to the smaller one

00:43:37   But what I'm most curious about is whether it just simply cannibalizes the iPad mini and Apple said before they'd rather

00:43:43   cannibalize their own stuff than somebody else or if people who previously have an iPhone

00:43:48   5 or 5s and an iPad mini now move to an iPhone 6s and an iPad Air or maybe theoretically

00:43:56   an iPad Pro one day.

00:43:57   If they go from small small to big big instead of getting nothing on the tablet side.

00:44:03   I think it's really going to put a dent in the iPad mini sales and I think it might put

00:44:07   a dent in iPad sales period at least among people who choose the 6 Plus.

00:44:12   It, to me, really is--

00:44:13   I forget exactly how I put it in my review, but almost as much.

00:44:21   Maybe not quite, but almost as much.

00:44:23   Like 40% more like an iPad Nano, a hypothetical iPad Nano,

00:44:30   than it is an iPhone Plus.

00:44:34   It really, to me, feels like a new class of device.

00:44:41   more than just a big iPhone, really does.

00:44:43   And a big part of that is the horizontal stuff,

00:44:47   you know, the two column layouts.

00:44:48   But even in the portrait landscape, vertical landscape,

00:44:53   it just feels in hand, it really to me feels like something

00:44:56   you have to use with two hands for the most part,

00:44:59   which to me is what makes it

00:45:00   a different class device than an iPhone.

00:45:04   - It's almost the inverse of what happened

00:45:06   when the iPad mini launched,

00:45:07   because people were used to having a two-handed

00:45:10   iPad experience and the iPhone the iPad mini was almost a hand and a half and now people are so used to using the one

00:45:16   Handed iPhone the iPhone plus iPhone 6 plus is to you know hand and a half to two-handed device

00:45:21   The other thing that's curious though

00:45:24   And I think would be like it's almost like a no-brainer and you don't even you know all the times that they've cannibalized

00:45:30   their own products, you know with the

00:45:33   iPod nano

00:45:36   Just wiping out the iPod iPod mini even though the mini was the single most popular consumer electronics product in the world at the time

00:45:43   the iPhone having a full unabashed

00:45:47   iPod app that

00:45:50   Eliminated the need to carry a standalone iPod right like the traditional tech company way

00:45:55   if you had a

00:45:57   popular franchise like iPod would have been to like make you tether your iPod to your phone somehow or

00:46:03   something like that or like the rocker phone like limit the number just

00:46:07   artificially limit the number of songs you can put on your iPhone or something

00:46:10   like that they didn't do anything like that they were like hey it's the bet

00:46:13   Steve Jobs called it the best iPod we've ever made fine it scary because it was

00:46:20   you know a hugely popular thing in this case I don't think they have any reason

00:46:23   to fear it because these things don't don't think about that on contract

00:46:26   pricing which is not the true price they're their true price is like three

00:46:32   times higher than the price of an iPad mini right you get iPad mini starting at

00:46:37   $299 right yeah it's one of these things off contract unlocked are you know $800

00:46:44   devices so if people stop buying iPad minis for three or four hundred dollars

00:46:50   so they can buy $900 iPhone six pluses at you know that's sort of like anybody

00:46:55   can see the the business sense of that that that is great for Apple because

00:46:58   they move from a super low margin product to us do a very good margin

00:47:02   product. But one of the things that's always impressed me about Apple as a

00:47:04   company is that they've never mistaken their products for their businesses and

00:47:09   we see this in technology so often like Microsoft with Windows everywhere where

00:47:13   they think that they make Windows and they really don't. Apple never made the

00:47:17   mistake that they made iPods you know or they made an iPod mini. They knew that

00:47:21   they made personal music devices and would evolve those and those became the

00:47:24   iPhone and now they are not an iPad company they'll kill the iPad if they

00:47:29   have a better idea. They just make these great devices that you can carry around. Whatever

00:47:33   the next version of that, they are fearless in moving to it as quickly as possible because

00:47:37   they'd rather do it before somebody else does. They do get rid of some profits. They leave

00:47:42   money on the table by not dragging out every single nickel out of every single product.

00:47:46   I think when you see how long they've been making really good amounts of money that ultimately

00:47:51   is to everybody's benefit.

00:47:52   A good question that I got asked after my review hit and people's you know

00:47:57   Realize I had both phones and they could ask me questions didn't occur to me before at all because I don't use it personally

00:48:02   But I got asked by a couple of people on Twitter

00:48:05   Whether the iPhone 6 plus in particular or either of the new ones works with the camera connection kit

00:48:13   which is the little lightning thing you plug in and then you can plug an SD card into an iPad and

00:48:20   import photos you can take photos with a regular camera standalone camera take the SD card use the

00:48:26   camera connection kit and you instead of putting them on a Mac you can put them on an iPad and it's

00:48:30   always been an iPad only peripheral didn't even occur to me to try it I did and it's exactly

00:48:36   nothing has changed when as soon as you plug the lightning adapter into the either of the new

00:48:41   iPhones it says this this peripheral or whatever it's called is not supported on this device I

00:48:48   I wonder though if that's an oversight because it seems to me like I never quite understood

00:48:55   why camera connection kit didn't work with an iPhone. It's never been clear to me technically

00:49:00   why that's the case. If anything, iPhones now have just as much storage as iPads. Who

00:49:09   knows? Maybe they'll double the iPads again. But storage shouldn't be the limiting factor.

00:49:13   It should be up to you if you have a 32 or 64 gigabytes of storage what you use it for.

00:49:18   Yeah, I think that's absolutely true and I hope it is an oversight because especially now with the bigger screen phones

00:49:22   It makes so much sense if you're traveling and you have an iPhone 6 plus

00:49:25   Especially you're not gonna want to bring an iPad with you

00:49:28   But you might bring a camera with you might bring something else like a DSLR

00:49:32   I often take one with me, especially when I go out of town

00:49:34   For this kind of photography that I just don't use an iPhone for but the ability to bring that all in the DSLRs are still

00:49:40   Dead like there's no there's no camera play like there is carplay. So I need the iPhone to do all the cool modern

00:49:46   Connected stuff. Yeah, and you know, hopefully it's an oversight because I think it's a clear use

00:49:52   I mean at least two people on Twitter specifically, you know

00:49:54   And I take it that they're either avid avid amateur or maybe even professional photographers

00:49:58   I didn't ask the details but that they you know go out in the field with an

00:50:03   iPad and use that as their you know in the field editing and storage device and they would rather replace it with this

00:50:10   You know for the obvious reason that it's crazy small compared to an iPad

00:50:16   It's a great way to show off your portfolio especially for photographers a lot of them like the iPad because they can carry a lot

00:50:21   Of you know graphics work with them photography worth them and the iPad 6 and 6 plus will be great for that, too

00:50:26   yeah, I'm trying to think if there was anything else that I

00:50:29   Left out of my review that I could use here, but I can't think of anything. I did want to mention the two

00:50:37   And see what you think about them, but the two big

00:50:44   Well one's big and one maybe is not as big but the two negative things I had to say about the

00:50:48   Apple's decisions the first and it's the clearly the biggest is their decision to keep the the entry level on both phones at 16 gigabytes

00:50:56   and so that the split between

00:50:58   199 299 399 and 299 399 499 for 99 for the two phones is

00:51:04   1664

00:51:08   128 instead of what to me looks more natural would be double them all 32 64 128

00:51:13   And I really like I said my in my review it almost seems punitive to only to ship one of these with only 16 gigabytes

00:51:22   I mean the original

00:51:23   iPhone the most popular model of it and back in 2007 had 8 gigabytes

00:51:28   So the only double it since the original eight product generations ago is ridiculous

00:51:34   And then I forgot about this because I bought my iPhone on day one

00:51:37   But Apple like six months after the original this is the original iPhone the original one

00:51:42   The one that only got to 2g networking

00:51:45   They shipped a 16 gigabyte model of it

00:51:48   Like in January or something like that. Do you remember that with the price cut? They also increased the storage. Yeah

00:51:54   So in other words the low-end iPhone 6 plus

00:51:58   Today has the same amount of storage as the high-end original iPhone back in 2007

00:52:06   That to me is it's just nuts

00:52:08   I can imagine a MacBook having the same hard drive space on the low end as a 2007 year a MacBook

00:52:13   Yeah

00:52:13   It's really and I keep seeing

00:52:15   Everybody today as they upgrade to iOS 8 is running into these problems where you need like it wants for 4 gigabytes free

00:52:22   2 or 4 and a half gigabytes free to do the OS update. Yeah

00:52:26   Well, how is that how are you gonna if you've got a 16 gigabyte iPhone today

00:52:32   How in the world are you gonna have 4 gigabytes free next year when iOS 9 comes out?

00:52:35   And it's worse in some ways because they're still selling an 8 gigabyte iPhone 5c in there,

00:52:40   you know, they've sold 8 gigabyte models in India and China and other brick countries

00:52:44   before.

00:52:45   You know, maybe there'll be an 8 gigabyte iPhone 5s eventually, who knows.

00:52:49   And that last year, you know, there was no way I could recommend that phone to anybody.

00:52:52   It's just it's almost unusable at that point.

00:52:54   And now 16 feels like that.

00:52:56   I am at 8 gigabytes and with the size of iOS, I honestly wonder how if you took one and

00:53:03   did a factory restore on it and wiped all of your personal stuff off every

00:53:07   photo we've ever taken none of your own music do a factory restore is there

00:53:12   going to be enough room to install iOS 9 over the air I don't even know if that's

00:53:16   true I mean it's to me that's crazy given what has to be the relatively low

00:53:24   price differential Apple would pay for the to double those it's a punitive is a

00:53:31   good word for it as someone also made an analogy to airlines and how you have

00:53:35   economy class business class and first class and how economy class is

00:53:39   deliberately made more miserable in an effort to you know maybe upsell the

00:53:43   premium seating options that are an extra 50 bucks whatever and this the

00:53:47   typical marketing thing is have the entry-level model that gets people in

00:53:49   the door but that entry-level model maybe they they still believe that if it

00:53:54   was 32 gigs more people would opt for that and there'd be fewer people moving

00:53:57   to the medium tier and they really want the medium tier to be the normal one

00:54:00   I guess that's the only explanation honestly that I think that has to be it

00:54:05   So I'm not trying to act stupid like I don't see that angle

00:54:08   But I honestly think that's beneath Apple and in long in the long run

00:54:13   Whatever whatever increase in active or not active selling for average selling price. They're gonna get because of this

00:54:20   The the way they've made these tiers however much money they're gonna make on that to me is

00:54:27   is probably gonna be less than the damage

00:54:29   it's doing to their brand by selling brand new iPhone 6

00:54:34   and 6+s that honestly I think cannot be recommended.

00:54:37   I really, I would honestly say that anybody out there

00:54:42   looking for buying advice, pretend like those ones

00:54:44   don't exist and that the starting price is 299 and 399

00:54:48   on contract for the 64 gigabyte models.

00:54:50   Whereas I think 32 gigabytes would be fine

00:54:53   if you think that knowing how much space you use

00:54:56   your phone now, you know, knowing how much of your music and video collection you like

00:55:00   to carry around on the device. You know, I like to put my whole music library on the

00:55:05   device, which already puts me close to 64, or at least in, you know, over 32. And then

00:55:13   with 128, I will know, you know, for the last couple of months, I've every couple of weeks,

00:55:18   I have to delete stuff from my phone, because I get a warning that I'm used up the whole

00:55:22   64 gigs because of shooting high def video and panoramic photos and stuff.

00:55:27   So I really want and can use the 128.

00:55:30   But I can see how somebody who doesn't store their music could easily get by with 32 and

00:55:34   have room to spare next year to upgrade to iOS 9 and stuff like that.

00:55:37   But 16 to me is really a disappointment.

00:55:41   I've heard an argument from some people in the BRIC countries that all the phones are

00:55:44   used for mainly in those countries because of the way the data plans are set up is you'll

00:55:48   get just a phone with a little bit of data and maybe Facebook Messenger or BBM or something

00:55:52   and it's primarily a text-based communications device because voice plans are so expensive.

00:55:58   And I also wonder if this if the carriers mandate or there's some sort of agreement

00:56:01   or there's some feeling that they have to have the brand new iPhone at $199 still because

00:56:06   it'd be interesting to see they did keep around the 32 gigabyte iPhone 5s if they let that

00:56:10   just be the the $199 device and the new iPhone started at $299 with 32 gigs.

00:56:16   I refuse to believe that if they made the entry level ones 32 that it would adversely

00:56:23   affect their margins.

00:56:24   And again, I say this knowing like I said on this show with, I think it was with Moltz

00:56:27   a couple of episodes back, it's so easy to armchair quarterback this and tell Apple to

00:56:33   make these decisions that, you know, they really ought to spend more money and go from

00:56:38   16 to 32.

00:56:39   Whereas if you multiply out 100 million phones per year and the difference, you know, even

00:56:43   Even if it's only a dollar per phone, it's hundreds of millions of dollars.

00:56:48   And I agree, hundreds of millions of dollars is nothing to sneeze at, even for Apple.

00:56:52   But in this particular case, it just is too much, given the way they use it.

00:56:57   And they're really promoting these features with the improved camera, which I think is

00:57:03   a huge selling point, a huge reason to upgrade for regular people in these cameras.

00:57:09   Panoramic photos have gone to like 50 megapixels or 50 megabytes or what I forget what you know

00:57:15   but they're they're they're like twice the size of the old panoramic ones and you have the

00:57:19   Time lapse - you can take all those photos and combine them to a video

00:57:22   I mean these are gonna be huge people are gonna generate huge amounts of content

00:57:26   And I also have to wonder if they did go to 32 gigabytes if any difference will be made up because people might buy more

00:57:31   iCloud storage or they might buy more apps because they can fit you know

00:57:34   more premium games, more large-sized gigabyte-filling games on their phone.

00:57:39   I mean, it just seems like there's better ways of getting people into the iPhone.

00:57:43   And being an amateur camera guy, I know how amazing it is that you can buy a camera now

00:57:48   that does 240 frames per second slow motion, right?

00:57:52   Just a couple years ago, that was like a real...

00:57:54   I mean, shooting that level of slow-mo was expensive, and it was hard to find on any

00:57:58   kind of vaguely consumerist camera.

00:58:01   Now you have it on your phone.

00:58:02   But by definition, 240 frames per second is double the storage size of 120 frames per

00:58:09   second.

00:58:10   Did you see that 4K app for $1,000 on the App Store?

00:58:12   No.

00:58:13   Yeah.

00:58:14   No, tell me about it.

00:58:15   So I forget the manufacturer, but they're a well-known video production company.

00:58:17   They made really smart iPhone and iPad apps.

00:58:21   For example, they're the ones who made the app that you can go out into a crowd with

00:58:24   a bunch of different people, and everyone will send their video back to the same iPhone

00:58:28   or iPad, and you can do multi-cam editing.

00:58:31   And so the new one basically uses the camera instead of the video camera and takes multiple

00:58:34   pictures and stitches them together into 4K video right on your iPhone.

00:58:38   Wow.

00:58:40   Yeah.

00:58:42   There's really good camera stuff, especially in iOS 8.

00:58:44   I'll have to check that out.

00:58:46   What's the name of the app?

00:58:47   I have to look it up, but it does 4K video and it's $1,000.

00:58:50   I'm guessing there's only going to be one of them.

00:58:52   4K.

00:58:53   I am rich, but actually useful.

00:58:55   4K video app for $1,000.

00:58:58   God, I'm in the wrong business.

00:59:01   >> [LAUGH] Vesper with 4K.

00:59:03   >> Right.

00:59:04   That's amazing.

00:59:05   I'll have to look that up.

00:59:06   I'll try to remember to put it in the show notes, but I'll probably forget.

00:59:13   But what else?

00:59:14   I don't know.

00:59:15   I mean, as a guy who just wrote a 4,000-word review of the two phones, I feel silly saying

00:59:19   there's not that much more to talk about, but I don't know that there's that much more

00:59:23   to talk about.

00:59:24   >> I apologize.

00:59:25   It's Vizzywig 4K is the name of the app.

00:59:26   >> Vizzywig.

00:59:27   Okay.

00:59:28   wig how do you spell that v iz zy wig 4k v iz zy g w ig w ig 4k this wig oh whatever well that seems

00:59:44   like a weird name for a thousand dollar app um

00:59:52   I thought it was interesting that they sold more phones than ever before by apparently a long shot.

00:59:58   Yeah, it was four million pre-orders.

01:00:00   Yeah, even with the whole pre-order system shitting the bed almost completely.

01:00:06   Yeah, I saw you tweet. I was up until, I think, 4 or 5 a.m. before I got my pre-orders done.

01:00:13   Eastern time?

01:00:13   Yeah.

01:00:14   Oh, I was up later than that. Yeah, that's... No, because it was only 3 a.m. Eastern time

01:00:21   when they went live, right?

01:00:22   It was supposed to go live. Yeah, and apple.com the main store page didn't go live

01:00:25   But a couple friends of mine sent me direct links about an hour an hour and a half later, which actually worked

01:00:30   I was on the west coast in Portland for XOXO

01:00:34   and so it was midnight for us when it first went live and I tried you last year I

01:00:40   used the

01:00:43   The app the app Apple Store app and at the stroke of midnight I opened the app and it was like

01:00:51   like not ready yet and then I reloaded. I went back to home screen, opened the app again

01:00:58   and it was there and it was ready and it was like, I don't know, 12.00.15 and I clicked

01:01:06   you know iPhone 5S space gray 64 Verizon upgrade this phone that I'm on right now and you know

01:01:17   credit card authorization and by like 1201 30 I was done and that was it and

01:01:23   Amy was with me and she did the same thing and you know then we were that was

01:01:28   it I got an email and you know the next Friday my phone came this time we I

01:01:33   spent I don't know two hours sitting there you know we were having drinks and

01:01:37   socializing but I spent like two hours in the app I spent went to the Apple

01:01:41   store calm and no matter what I did I couldn't get it to work and I eventually

01:01:45   had to resort to going to Verizon. The app was for me the app started before the website did and

01:01:51   would let me pick the phone I wanted but the buttons to actually order it never activated.

01:01:55   Yeah that's exactly what I well I had trouble getting there I would say most every most times

01:01:59   I tried I never even got that far and about one out of three times I tried I'd get all the way to

01:02:03   the part where it let me pick iPhone 6 space gray 128 Verizon and the button to say add this to cart

01:02:13   Just never activated such a tease. Yeah, but right next to me it worked for Amy eventually, but just randomly, you know

01:02:20   like 20 minutes in

01:02:21   She was there just sitting on that screen with the inactive add to cart button and then all of a sudden the add to cart button

01:02:27   Went live and that was it. Everybody loves Amy. Well, I don't know about that

01:02:31   But yeah, and it was strange because watching the carrier sites

01:02:35   Some of them announced they'd go up later and they came up earlier

01:02:38   Some people could get to Verizon some couldn't some could get to AT&T some couldn't some got waiting listed

01:02:43   T-Mobile took forever. They do this every year and they still can't get their shit together.

01:02:49   Verizon's worked. I don't think that I had. I went through in one shot with no bugs, but

01:02:54   it's such a design nightmare. And doing it on the phone makes it worse because their

01:02:58   site is not mobile optimized. Really small fonts, lots of pinching and zooming and panning

01:03:03   around. But I was out. I didn't have anything else to order with. I had to use the phone.

01:03:07   And I just, you know, it ends up I think I could have still ordered the next morning

01:03:11   and still gotten Friday delivery, but that's because I wanted the six.

01:03:16   And I didn't want to take that chance that it wouldn't come right away, you know, that

01:03:18   it would go to two, three weeks delivery.

01:03:22   I have the Verizon website design-wise and in terms of the ways that they try to trick

01:03:29   you and get you to buy like get it with a protection plan, get it with a car charger.

01:03:35   It's like those bad domain registration sites.

01:03:37   Yeah, exactly.

01:03:38   And just the layout of it and the colors all this red it just reminds me of like what it would be like to like

01:03:44   Get your driver's license and if the Soviet Union were still around

01:03:47   Yeah, it's like it's like some kind of I don't know. It's probably like what the internet is like in North Korea

01:03:53   It's like oppressive no and it's yeah a company that is designed to sell you phones cannot sell you phones effectively on

01:04:03   Well, you know Apple calm just went responsive

01:04:06   So I don't want to be too critical, but if you're selling products that involve mobile you really should work on mobile

01:04:10   Yeah, says a guy whose whose website isn't yet responsive and whose number one platform for page views is iOS

01:04:18   I was really I that's the thing that bummed me out about Apple going

01:04:21   Apple calm going responsive is I really thought that was the thing that I

01:04:25   Could I could still lean against and say well, I'm not the last. Yeah now, you know looks like I'm gonna be last

01:04:31   Let me take a break here and thank

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01:07:33   they are that you'll sign up. So my thanks to lynda.com. What about you? Do you have

01:07:38   any questions about the iPhone 6 or 6 Plus from someone who's used it?

01:07:42   Not that I can think of. I mean, I got to spend about 20 minutes with them in the demo

01:07:47   room, so nowhere nearly enough to get my hands on them. But I'm not sure I'm going to be

01:07:51   able to make any sort of opinion until I've used them for a week. What I liked about your

01:07:56   review is that you used both of them for a period of time, and that really sort of cemented

01:08:00   how the iPhone 6 Plus wasn't for you.

01:08:03   Yeah. I'm not good at doing… I work slowly, and I think slowly, and I really wish… I

01:08:12   that I'd had two weeks to do it so I could have done a full week with each one. It just seemed to

01:08:18   me like if I switched back and forth every day all day for a week I'd never get a good sense of either

01:08:24   so I thought I'll do three with the plus first then three with the six and then you know write

01:08:30   my review on the seventh day and it you know when I went when I switched from the plus and I you know

01:08:38   I I did I would say

01:08:40   98% of my iPhone usage was on the device

01:08:44   I was using either one or two things that I used my personal iPhone for because I didn't have it on the review unit

01:08:50   I couldn't get uber working for example on that thing and it was a weird, you know the

01:08:59   You know this that the location

01:09:03   Settings in iOS 8 have changed to be more fine-grained. Yeah

01:09:08   Well, existing apps that haven't been updated for iOS 8, it puts them that want to use your

01:09:14   location. It puts them in a weird spot where they, it's like Uber wasn't asking me, "Hey,

01:09:19   can I use location services?" I never even got prompted. It would just give me an error,

01:09:25   and it gave me the error when I was signing in. I would type my email address and my Uber password

01:09:30   and hit OK. And instead of saying, "Your password is good, you're in," or, "Your password wasn't

01:09:35   entered correctly, tried again.

01:09:37   After I hit sign in, it would say your location

01:09:39   can't be determined.

01:09:41   And it took me like days to figure this out.

01:09:44   And then I was, I thought, oh, it's not the phone,

01:09:48   it's iOS 8.

01:09:49   And I went to settings, location, Uber,

01:09:52   and Uber was listed as one of the apps that wanted location.

01:09:56   But instead of saying that it was set to don't allow

01:10:00   or allow or allow only when I'm in the app,

01:10:05   it was set to nothing.

01:10:06   It was like nothing at all.

01:10:07   So if I tapped Uber and then just said,

01:10:09   here, let it use my location while I'm in the app,

01:10:12   then I went back to Uber and it all worked.

01:10:14   But in the meantime, to order Ubers around San Francisco,

01:10:18   I had to use my real iPhone.

01:10:19   So there's just one example of something that I couldn't do.

01:10:21   But everything other than that, I used the Revu phones.

01:10:25   When I switched after three days to the iPhone 6,

01:10:28   it was like, wow, this is a relief.

01:10:30   - I think it's almost inarguable that the iPhone 6

01:10:33   is a linear successor to the iPhones

01:10:35   that have come before and the iPhone 6 Plus,

01:10:36   like you pointed out, is really something new.

01:10:39   And we know some people who've had them for a while now

01:10:42   and the comments are the same,

01:10:43   you know, it's not a one-handed device.

01:10:45   Kind of scared of dropping it

01:10:46   when I try to use it one-handed.

01:10:48   And I think it's really important

01:10:50   that people think of it as something else

01:10:51   or they might just get it thinking it's the next iPhone.

01:10:54   - Yeah, I do wonder, like I wrote last year,

01:10:57   I do wonder whether there's going to be

01:10:58   some amount of buyer's regret

01:11:01   where somebody goes in the store

01:11:03   and it just looks so impressive.

01:11:04   Because it does.

01:11:05   I mean it is a striking device physically.

01:11:13   And they're going to say, "Wow, that looks so awesome.

01:11:15   I'm going to get that one."

01:11:16   And then when they actually get it, they start running into problems like it's hard to get

01:11:19   out of your pocket while you're sitting down.

01:11:21   It's hard to put back in your pocket while you're sitting down.

01:11:23   Well, imagine if you go into Best Buy and every television was subsidized.

01:11:28   So they were all $200 or $300 regardless of the size.

01:11:32   just see a hundred and twenty inch television it's three hundred bucks and you're gonna

01:11:35   make it yours and then you get home and you realize there's no way to get that thing in

01:11:40   unless you take down a wall.

01:11:41   It's something like it might be something like that I don't know. I compared it to like

01:11:48   the way that people tend to buy oversaturated TVs in Best Buy because when you look at them

01:11:52   side by side you're not really imagining you know you're not looking at it in the right

01:11:56   context and the extra saturation is striking and you think it looks good and then you get

01:12:01   at home and it's like you realize that skin tones are just way off and everything is it

01:12:06   doesn't look good it just looks vibrant.

01:12:09   I don't want to scare anybody off because there are going to be people that it is going

01:12:11   to be a tremendous productivity boom for them and they're going to love it and they're going

01:12:15   to wonder how they survived with a small screen before.

01:12:18   Yeah I think it's you know but I think most people know it when they see it.

01:12:23   I had to laugh and I loved it I didn't mention it online but I loved Panzarino's review.

01:12:29   I thought it was such a great idea to, you know, that, you know, and maybe it was like

01:12:32   a happy coincidence because, you know, his family already had the Disneyland trip planned.

01:12:37   But what a great, what a great stress test for review units of a phone than something

01:12:43   like that which, you know, is, you know, you naturally, you don't have to contrive reasons

01:12:49   to shoot photos or videos. You're on a family vacation at Disneyland. You're going to want

01:12:52   to shoot photos and videos. And the lighting conditions are all over the place because

01:12:56   you might be out in bright daylight walking around the park and then you go on a ride

01:13:00   where it's super dark. I thought that was a great review. But I had to laugh at his

01:13:08   crazy idea of masking the two phones in Android smartphone cases and then cutting a hole for

01:13:15   the difference in the camera location. You don't have to do that. He should have reread

01:13:21   the embargo agreement that you get from Apple

01:13:25   when you get a review,

01:13:27   you're allowed to use them in real life.

01:13:29   You don't have to hide them.

01:13:30   You don't have to disguise them.

01:13:32   There'd be no other way to do a real world review.

01:13:35   You can go out and just use the phone.

01:13:37   They give you cases, their cases,

01:13:41   so you can review the cases too if you want.

01:13:43   But since I don't use a case in real life,

01:13:46   I don't use a case with my review phones either.

01:13:48   I just use them.

01:13:51   There are rules.

01:13:52   I mean, for example, everybody knows there's an embargo

01:13:54   of when you're allowed to publish

01:13:56   any kind of writing about it.

01:13:59   And you're also not allowed,

01:14:02   and this part I'm actually thinking about emailing them

01:14:04   and seeing if they might reconsider it.

01:14:06   You're not allowed to post to any social media

01:14:08   a photo that you've taken with it.

01:14:11   Which once or twice, and I stick to it,

01:14:13   but once or twice I get XOXO, it kinda stunk

01:14:16   because all the photos I was taking

01:14:18   I couldn't Instagram any of them.

01:14:19   I have to like, what do they call it?

01:14:20   later gram them. And that is sort of a, it actually sort of makes it so that you

01:14:27   can't fully use these review phones the way I would use a real phone because I

01:14:31   do post things to Instagram or photos to Twitter. But you know that a bunch of

01:14:36   websites, the minute that happens we'll say first iPhone 6 camera shots appear

01:14:40   on social networks and they'll analyze the flicker information. Yeah I kind of

01:14:45   see what you know I am sure that's exactly why the rule exists and you know

01:14:50   And it's a very sit the way they have it written now is a simple rule

01:14:53   You can't share photos from taken with this camera over a social network simple. Yes or no, you can't do it

01:14:59   Whereas what I guess I kind of want them to do is I wish I could do it without

01:15:03   But with the rule that I can't say hey, I took this with an iPhone 6, you know in here

01:15:09   Here's a version of the same scene taken with an iPhone 5

01:15:13   Look at the difference, you know in advance of the embargo date, but just posting, you know

01:15:18   without commenting on it I

01:15:20   Don't know and I don't even know like does Instagram keep the exif data

01:15:25   I know flicker does so flicker I could see flicker

01:15:28   I could see I would I could see them making maybe a whitelist of you can post to Twitter and Instagram

01:15:34   If it if like exif data is stripped from those apps or something like that any website that makes horribly compressed overly filtered versions of

01:15:42   Your photographs are fine to post to

01:15:44   Exactly right so maybe they could whitelist a few but anyway it's a bit of a

01:15:48   You know it's a bit of a hassle not be able to I liked panzerinos review too because he's a pro

01:15:55   He was a professional photographer, and he knows to look for things like how it handles

01:15:58   Saturated reds that you know I don't that not everyone look for and I also the Austin man piece that ran on his blog on

01:16:05   The verge we took it with him to Iceland you know just to see I cannot ever take photographs like that

01:16:11   But I like to see what the potential is with someone who really knows how to use that camera

01:16:14   Yeah, his his review made me feel so much better about not really having done any

01:16:18   photography testing of mine that I just sort of ran out of time and just ran it and didn't really take any

01:16:24   Side-by-side pictures to really compare it's like well

01:16:27   It would have been a waste of time anyway, because his review blew it away in terms of depth and expertise in terms of photography

01:16:33   Yeah, it's like watching it someone in Middle Earth take around the life on six. It's ridiculous

01:16:37   All right

01:16:37   So it just made me laugh though that panzerino went around Disney World with his eyes is his iPhone sixes in these

01:16:43   horribly janky, cut up with hotel scissors Android cases, when he could have just used them out and

01:16:49   about. But I will say, as somebody who did that for the last week, using it just out and about,

01:16:53   people recognized it. Like last year, I don't think anybody did. Like I, because I had an iPhone,

01:16:59   I forget what color it was. I already had a gold one. I had a gold 5S. So I guess some people did

01:17:05   notice. There were some people who noticed because I had a gold one and gold was new.

01:17:08   But if I had had a space gray one, nobody would have known. Even though space gray is a different

01:17:12   color than the black that came before it. People just don't really notice. You know,

01:17:17   it's iPhones and iPhone. The gold, a couple people noticed. But testing these two phones

01:17:21   in the wild, especially the Plus, just complete strangers would say, "Oh my God, is that

01:17:27   the new iPhone?" Over and over and over again to the point where--and I didn't want to be

01:17:32   photographed using it. I didn't want anybody posting pictures of me using it. So I would

01:17:36   say yes, and you're allowed to. You don't have to lie. You don't have to suddenly run

01:17:41   away or something. You can say, "Yes, it's an iPhone 6 Plus. It's a review unit from

01:17:46   Apple." But you're not allowed to let people touch it and you're not allowed to demonstrate

01:17:51   it in a public way. So you can't say, "Sure, gather around employees of Super Duper Burger

01:17:57   and I will show you the iPhone 6 Plus." So you kind of have to be a little bit of a jerk

01:18:04   about it, but you don't have to hide it. You don't have to lie about it or anything like

01:18:10   that or put it in a case.

01:18:11   That's the same as last year did that change as well?

01:18:13   No, that's always been the same as far as at least since I've been reviewing them which started with the Verizon iPhone

01:18:18   For what's much better way to test it if that if the embargo or the NDA was stricter than that

01:18:24   It'd probably not be a functional test for you, right? It really wouldn't be if you had to you know

01:18:28   You know disguise it or something like that locked in a room

01:18:31   Right because even if I had to put it in some kind of case

01:18:34   It would have affected my ability to judge just how pocketable it is without a case

01:18:39   Which is really what I'm…

01:18:40   Yeah, how durable, how good the finish is. There's so many things.

01:18:42   Right. So that made me laugh.

01:18:45   It was a great extra paragraph or two in his article, though.

01:18:48   Yeah, it made me laugh, though, knowing the rules. What do you think about… I guess if there's anything else that's controversial about the design of the two phones. It's the camera nubbin?

01:18:58   Yeah.

01:18:59   Or the bulge, as I'm calling it. I'm not quite sure what to call it. One thing a couple people on Twitter pointed out, and again, because I don't use a case…

01:19:07   I guess it occurred to me, but it didn't really pop to my forefront is for anybody who does use their iPhone in a case

01:19:14   Which I do believe to be a majority if not an overwhelming majority of iPhone users just out and about in a real world

01:19:21   it seems to me like

01:19:22   Certainly many people don't but it seems like most people do use a case and if you do use a case

01:19:28   it's absolutely irrelevant because even the thinnest of cases is going to be thinner than the thickness of the bulge around the

01:19:36   camera lens

01:19:37   Yeah, absolutely

01:19:38   and even I think some people point us out to

01:19:40   People who make accessories like all o clip can now have use that as a guide to make sure that it stays in place when they

01:19:46   Put it on

01:19:47   Yeah, it's you know, I would never go so far as to argue that it's therefore a feature and not a you know

01:19:53   A design trade-off but there is it's sort of like a silver lining in in the trade-off

01:19:59   Well, I mean the iPod touch had this two years ago three years ago whenever that launched and it's because cameras

01:20:06   Apple talks about the five element lens and cameras really need depth. That's why lenses sometimes are so thick

01:20:11   It's and the phones they want to make super thin and that creates a huge tension make the phone thinner

01:20:15   They have to make a worse camera. They're not gonna do that

01:20:18   they did they did a miracle of engineering with the iPhone 5 to get that 8 megapixel camera in there and

01:20:23   I don't think they could I'm sure they tried

01:20:27   I don't think they could get it into a phone as thin as these and like you said that was a compromise they had to

01:20:31   Make yeah

01:20:33   Well, it's not that you know, I presented three options first would be use a camera that fits flush and has worse optics

01:20:41   I think that was out of the question because I believe a camera of that size

01:20:45   Not only would a certainly would have had worse optics than the one they did include but it might have even had worse optics

01:20:51   Probably would have had worse optics than the 5s. Absolutely 5c and that's just unacceptable

01:20:57   They can't sell the high-end iPhone with a camera that's worse than the one from a year or two before

01:21:02   Just it you know

01:21:04   Inconceivable there's no magic option to just magically make it happen

01:21:10   And I've seen it on Twitter a handful of people on Twitter who if Steve Jobs was there

01:21:14   He would have browbeat them into making a camera. That was that thin enough and didn't sacrifice image quality

01:21:20   Well, I that's not how it worked

01:21:23   He was a you know a great motivator and he often drove people to do more than they could think they could

01:21:29   I don't think he could bend the laws of physics and you know, they still do they did

01:21:36   You know, they do things like use Sony sensors, you know, they use components. They don't the camera isn't entirely their own creation

01:21:42   they have like a Sony sensor in there which already places a starting limit on how far away the lens has to be to

01:21:48   to

01:21:50   Cover the whole sensor with an image so I'm gonna say that that was out. I think the choice came between

01:21:57   doing what they did and having a bulge around the camera lens or

01:22:01   making the whole device as thick as needed be this to sit flush with the camera that they have and then they're you know

01:22:09   Make the battery a little thicker to take advantage of that extra space

01:22:14   Yeah

01:22:15   Where they could and that's the thing that I've a lot of people pushed back on my review about that

01:22:20   They should have because that would have been better. There's it still would have been thinner than the 5s

01:22:25   How is that not thin enough and then battery life would have been better on the both phones?

01:22:30   you know that this is folly on Apple's part because it would have been better for everybody because

01:22:35   A little bit that much more thickness wouldn't have mattered

01:22:39   It still would have been a thin phone and then battery life would have been better

01:22:41   It's it's really interesting because a lot of people when Apple went to the iPhone 5 and that was thinner than the iPhone 4s that

01:22:47   You know just keep it the same as the 4s

01:22:48   I want more battery

01:22:49   But everything really is a trade-off and I think Apple is more

01:22:53   Obsessed as they are with thinness and they've made an entirely new

01:22:57   backlight just to get it thinner

01:22:59   I think that is because it translates into weight and I've got like I said

01:23:03   I've got a Lumia 1020 and that feels like a brick and the Nexus 5 is about the same size and it feels even though

01:23:09   It's the same size

01:23:10   It feels so much smaller because it's lighter and the iPhone 6 Plus felt smaller again than a lot of those phones

01:23:15   Well than the galaxy note and I think Apple realized when they went big one of their goals was to be light so that it

01:23:21   Didn't it didn't end up feeling like a weaponized instrument in your hand. Yeah. Yeah

01:23:25   It is like I wrote my review. It's heavier

01:23:29   The fuck the six is heavier than the 5s, but it doesn't feel heavier because I think by you know

01:23:36   By mass, it's actually lighter, you know per per per volume

01:23:41   It's it's lighter even though overall it's it's actually a little heavier and it's that illusion thing again, too

01:23:46   Because I had a chance to see a bunch of people using them during the week and you look at it

01:23:51   Then you look at your iPhone 5 and it's that same feelings when you look back on an iPhone 4s now

01:23:55   And it looks like a stunted little iPhone mini

01:23:57   It's that once you see that because of the curves because of the way that it's built

01:24:01   It just looks so much newer than the iPhone 5 and I think that whole thing combines together to make the big size more acceptable

01:24:07   Yeah

01:24:09   I think it's reasonable, perfectly reasonable,

01:24:14   to argue the side of they should have just made

01:24:16   both phones a little thicker to let the camera sit flush

01:24:20   and have put slightly bigger batteries in.

01:24:22   Perfectly reasonable.

01:24:24   I think it's not reasonable to argue that what Apple

01:24:27   did choose to do is also reasonable,

01:24:30   and that Apple simply prioritizes thinness and weight

01:24:34   a little bit more than other people do.

01:24:38   I mean it's interesting because I believe the iPod touch at least it was certainly designed

01:24:42   While Steve Jobs was still around in that ship there was no right band right shipping that so I think you know that that's not it

01:24:49   Yeah, it's you know we're running out of time to say no actually

01:24:53   Steve Jobs actually was there for that, but that's the the protruding camera lens

01:24:58   You can't say Steve Jobs never would have done it because he did he was there when the the iPod touch that has that was was

01:25:04   Was designed yeah

01:25:08   I don't think people some people have said today they need to do they need to buy a case now

01:25:13   Because otherwise if you put your phone flat on a table or something like that the lens is gonna get scratched

01:25:18   I don't think the lens is any more likely to get scratched than it was on the 5s because it's still a sapphire

01:25:23   cover on the outside of the lens

01:25:26   and if anything that the metal ring around it would be less likely to have the you know

01:25:34   The lens actually touching the surface of the table that you're on. I don't know

01:25:37   It certainly doesn't make me want to put a case on it. I'm not worried

01:25:40   I was about to ask you that because in the iPod touch and I'm holding it right now

01:25:43   The ring goes a little bit further than the lens. So it does protect the lens now

01:25:47   I didn't I forgot to check that I think it does but it if you know, it's very slight

01:25:51   But I do think that given that it would just be sitting at a slight angle

01:25:54   I think it means that the you know on a perfectly flat table. I don't think any part of the lens would actually

01:26:04   Would actually touch the table

01:26:05   So I think if anything it's a little bit less likely and some people have worried about it not being flush when you put it

01:26:10   Down on his back on a table, but again the iPod touch

01:26:12   There's one corner that you can push out that makes it a little bit

01:26:15   But it's all it does. Yeah, it wiggles a little bit on a perfectly flat table, but it's it doesn't bother me

01:26:20   I mean in theory do I wish it were flush of course, but

01:26:23   You know, I same thing with the lines for the antenna lines, you know, people are asking about those

01:26:29   You know, I didn't even mention them in the review. What are they're fine

01:26:32   I don't I don't think that they're bad. I don't think they're good

01:26:35   I mean, you know, there's always some kind of concession to the antenna in every single phone

01:26:40   I mean the original iPhone had a big black plastic thing on the bottom inch of it. You know, it's

01:26:46   It's fine. Yeah

01:26:48   I don't know

01:26:49   my wife actually thinks it looks good on the gold ones almost like like the way that on like a handbag or like a

01:26:56   Woman's jacket or something like that the the pattern of the panel, you know

01:27:00   that sometimes at the seams of a piece of clothing or something like that are meant

01:27:04   you know they're stitched in a different color you know that it looks something like that

01:27:08   so it's like Boba Fett it's great yeah one last thing before we move away from the phones

01:27:14   is I want to I want to hopefully this will show up on the audio so I've got I've got

01:27:21   three phones in front of me right now the my 5s the 6 and the 6 plus and I'm going to

01:27:29   toggle the silent switch on and off holding it up against the microphone so

01:27:34   I'm going to start with the iPhone 5s.

01:27:38   Did you hear that? All right now here's the 6. Could you hear that? That was much

01:27:51   harder to hear but I heard it. Much harder to hear lower right so the 6 is a

01:27:55   a much quieter vibration. Now here's the 6S, I mean the 6 Plus. One more. It's way louder.

01:28:10   It's really, I'm just sitting here and I'm actually going to power this one down because

01:28:15   I'm getting notifications and it's so loud, even sitting on my desk that I know that they're

01:28:19   showing up in the audio for the show. It's a really loud silent switch. Almost

01:28:24   problematically so. And I even double-checked with Apple to make sure

01:28:28   that I didn't get a unit with, you know, that was abnormal in that regard. And they

01:28:32   said, "No, it is a little bit louder." It's also way stronger. It's like,

01:28:35   there's no way you can miss it. I wonder if that's a concession to the idea that

01:28:38   not as many people might pocket it, but they might put it in a bag or a purse or

01:28:41   something. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's on purpose. Yeah, maybe that is true. I

01:28:46   don't know, but I'm surprised more people haven't commented on it in the initial

01:28:49   reviews because it is a real difference especially compared to the regular 6

01:28:52   which is even quieter than previous iPhones. That's interesting. It's almost

01:28:57   to the point where it's like I don't even think you'd call it silent mode

01:29:01   you'd call it vibrate mode because it's it's not silent and in a room I almost

01:29:06   wonder like in a room with you know if there was like a meeting and people put

01:29:11   their phones in front of them you know that it's it's gonna be almost

01:29:14   problematic that that it you know this is yeah a lot of boardrooms are gonna

01:29:18   have trouble. Yeah, I don't know. Let me take one last break here and thank our

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01:33:38   show.

01:33:39   Man, we still have iOS 8 to talk about.

01:33:41   I say skip the rest of the event.

01:33:43   I'll cover that on future shows.

01:33:45   Seriously, we just don't have time.

01:33:47   Before we get to iOS 8 though, I guess we could talk about Apple Pay.

01:33:51   I'm wondering what you think about that.

01:33:54   It's really interesting because I have NFC everywhere around me.

01:33:57   Sears takes it, McDonald's takes it, the gas stations take it.

01:34:01   It's just everywhere.

01:34:02   So both my credit cards have a little NFC sticker on them, a sticker with printing on

01:34:08   them, and you go up and you tap the gas pump, you tap the cash register, and it just works

01:34:13   and it's great.

01:34:15   And the idea of having that on my iPhone so I don't...

01:34:18   My only concern with it is if I ever drop my card, you know, someone can pick it up

01:34:21   and go start tapping for gas or tapping for food, it'll take a while before I realize

01:34:25   it.

01:34:26   So having it on my phone is hugely appealing because I don't have to carry those credit

01:34:29   cards with me, I don't have to worry about dropping them.

01:34:32   And because they're doing it in such a secure way where they're encrypting everything, they're

01:34:36   putting it on the secure element, and they're doing this one-time credit card number, it's

01:34:42   even better than the convenience that I already have with NFC, so I'm really excited.

01:34:46   Yeah, I think it's one of those cases where what Apple said is exactly the truth, and

01:34:51   there's no reason to be cynical about it.

01:34:52   But Tim Cook's explanation that, look, everybody's tried to do this before, and they've all fallen

01:34:56   short.

01:34:57   And the reason they've fallen short is that they've come up with schemes that are built

01:34:59   around their own self-interest.

01:35:02   In other words, I think, because they want to make a lot of money on it, rather than

01:35:07   approaching it as let's look at it from the perspective of the customer and just make

01:35:11   their experience better and let the fallout come after that.

01:35:15   They're going to make money on this.

01:35:17   There's no doubt that this isn't saying that Apple is doing it for free and all the money

01:35:21   is passing through without them getting it.

01:35:22   But they're not making a lot per transaction.

01:35:24   They're taking a tiny little sliver of the transactions.

01:35:28   not asking retailers to install an Apple back-end system. They're not asking retailers to install

01:35:35   Apple's, you know, proprietary iPhone only thing at the register. It's an industry standard.

01:35:42   It's already in hundreds of thousands of locations. They're just making it work easier than anybody

01:35:47   else has. And it's really just, I think primarily just about making it another way that it's

01:35:53   nicer to own an iPhone than it is to own any other phone. That's the main advantage to

01:35:59   Apple. It's not about the fraction of a penny per transaction that they're going to make.

01:36:04   Although they'll keep that money. I think it's primarily a way to just, you know, why

01:36:11   do they sweat over the details of putting in a higher 400 pixel per inch display in

01:36:16   the iPhone 6? Because it's nicer for customers. I think that's what Apple Pay is all about.

01:36:22   I therefore think, and I mean this, I don't think, you know, I think there's some people

01:36:27   who are going to roll their eyes, but I think it's win-win-win.

01:36:31   It's good for Apple because they will make some money on this and it will make iPhones

01:36:37   a little bit stickier as something that people are – once they have it, they're going

01:36:41   to want to keep buying them.

01:36:43   I think it's good for customers because I think it's an amazing experience.

01:36:47   And we got to play with it.

01:36:48   They did have – they had like play registers set up at the hands-on area.

01:36:54   If anything, their demo video in the keynote undersold how easy it is.

01:37:00   It's really, really convenient.

01:37:02   And then it's good for the retailers.

01:37:04   Apple isn't charging them like some kind of crazy 70/30 split.

01:37:07   They're not asking for an exorbitant amount of money.

01:37:11   They did get preferential treatment in terms of getting the rate that was there for when

01:37:15   that you know the card present rate as opposed to the card not present rate but

01:37:19   I think that's fair and reasonable that they're saying hey touch ID combined

01:37:23   with the security measures we've taken is the equivalent of card present it's

01:37:28   you know just a little bit more likely that this is not a fraudulent

01:37:31   transaction you know that they're not getting charged the rate that gets

01:37:35   charged when you just read your credit card number to somebody over the phone

01:37:39   which is where you don't get card present because they don't see that you

01:37:42   have the card. It reminds me of that piece you wrote after WWDC called "Only Apple"

01:37:47   because yeah if you think back to when Google tried to do this it's almost like

01:37:52   when they tried to do TV is that they didn't get by and they couldn't get

01:37:54   things past carriers some carriers blocked it some carriers wanted to use

01:37:57   their own because they have their own used to be called Isis I forget what

01:38:00   they renamed it their own solution for these things and they just they just

01:38:03   couldn't get it deployed and Apple because they make everything from the

01:38:07   chip to the secure enclave and the secure I forget what the name for it is

01:38:11   a secure element all the way up to the OS

01:38:14   and to the hardware.

01:38:15   It's better than having the credit card present

01:38:17   because again, I can just drop my NFC card

01:38:19   and someone else can pick it up and go tap things.

01:38:21   There's no password, there's nothing required.

01:38:23   This needs my passcode or my fingerprint

01:38:25   and that I think makes it,

01:38:27   I heard a rumor that it was after Target

01:38:29   and after a lot of the credit card breaches

01:38:31   that the industry started listening to Apple.

01:38:34   They weren't as receptive beforehand.

01:38:36   And I think it's really telling

01:38:37   that they had launch partners,

01:38:38   like they demoed the Target app and the Apple Store app

01:38:41   And it's not just this thing that you can use in registers.

01:38:44   Because again, only Apple, they have the apps,

01:38:47   they made a solution that works on the phone

01:38:49   in physical real world stores, that works online with apps,

01:38:52   and that works based on a physical skin connection

01:38:55   with the watch, and that is a very robust solution.

01:38:59   - Yeah, it's very, very true.

01:39:01   And like I said, win, win, win.

01:39:05   The retailers are happy to use it,

01:39:07   the banks are happy to use it,

01:39:08   'cause they seem so confident

01:39:11   that Apple's come up with is going to increase security

01:39:14   and fraud is such a huge time and cost and PR sink

01:39:19   for the banks and for retailers, right?

01:39:23   I mean, the target CEO lost his job

01:39:28   over the debacle that happened to them last year.

01:39:30   It's a real problem.

01:39:32   This seems like, if it works as advertised,

01:39:35   is a completely credible solution.

01:39:39   And so it really is, it's better for every party involved.

01:39:42   Nobody's paying any sort of,

01:39:44   there's no trade-off for anybody.

01:39:46   As opposed to something like,

01:39:47   let's just compare it to the 70/30 split

01:39:51   for on-device content that's sold on the phones.

01:39:56   I think that's, you know,

01:39:57   there's a, you know, years-long argument that,

01:40:01   hey, that's too much, you know,

01:40:03   that Barnes and Noble shouldn't have to spend,

01:40:05   you know, or can't afford 30% margins

01:40:08   because they're paying the same agency model for books that anybody else is.

01:40:15   Should Amazon let Kindle use in-app purchases?

01:40:19   No.

01:40:20   Why don't they?

01:40:21   There are all sorts of arguments to be made there where the 70/30 split, depending on

01:40:25   your perspective, may not be in the interest of whoever is selling the goods.

01:40:29   There's no downside like that with Apple Pay.

01:40:32   It really is better for everybody.

01:40:34   And there was some confusion because some people thought that the 70/30 split would

01:40:38   it would be for example if Amazon like the Amazon app used it not the one for the Kindle

01:40:43   store but for the actual buying goods but the 70/30 was never for physical goods it

01:40:46   was always for the digital distribution goods within apps so they're fine any target everyone

01:40:50   can adopt this and all they're doing is the Apple Pay.

01:40:55   So last segment and I want to keep it short because I don't want to just regurgitate your

01:40:59   excellent excellent iOS 8 review which anybody who's listening to the show if

01:41:03   you haven't put it in the show notes but go read it it is long it is 20,000 words

01:41:08   it is booklet length but it is worth it and it's to me definitive what are the

01:41:16   the things the little things in iOS 8 that you think people are most likely to

01:41:21   overlook like what you know a couple of things that people who listen to the

01:41:25   show maybe think that they're tuned into what's new in iOS 8 they've seen you

01:41:28   know the keynote at WWDC but that are like oh I didn't know about that.

01:41:34   I think there's two. One is really big and some are really small. The really big thing

01:41:38   is because there's names like extensibility and there's all sorts of different things

01:41:42   like widgets and custom actions, custom keyboards, custom sharing items. But when you come down

01:41:48   to it the huge transformation for me between iOS 7 and iOS 8 is that entirely reverse the

01:41:54   before everything was pull if you wanted to do something you had to leave what you were

01:41:58   we're doing, go to another app.

01:42:00   For example, just sending a voice memo,

01:42:01   you had to leave messages, go to the voice memo app,

01:42:04   create a voice memo, bring up the embedded message sheet,

01:42:06   and then use that to send it through messages,

01:42:09   then go back to messages and continue your conversation.

01:42:11   And it was like that for so many things.

01:42:14   If you wanted to share a URL in a non-integrated app

01:42:18   like Google+, you'd have to go to the web, copy the URL.

01:42:21   One password, you had to launch one password,

01:42:23   copy the password, come out.

01:42:24   And now everything, the model is so much more

01:42:26   towards push data where from interactive notifications,

01:42:30   you can keep playing your game, keep watching your movie,

01:42:32   quickly answer a message.

01:42:35   You pull down Notification Center, the widgets right there.

01:42:37   The Android model was always old century to me

01:42:40   because you had to leave, go to the home screen,

01:42:42   page through the home screen, find the widget.

01:42:44   It really didn't save you that much time.

01:42:46   Being in Notification Center saves you so much time.

01:42:49   Storehouse, now you don't have to go to Storehouse

01:42:52   and then open up the image picker and choose images.

01:42:54   You can be in photos, you can use filters in there,

01:42:57   you can use the sharing options.

01:43:00   So many aspects of iOS now bring the stuff to you

01:43:03   where you are, and that is such a fundamental change

01:43:06   to how I'm using my iPhone.

01:43:08   And I think Federico did a great job explaining that too.

01:43:11   I don't wanna call it revolutionary

01:43:13   'cause I think that's overused,

01:43:15   but just the change in workflow has made it less of a chore.

01:43:18   It's made it much more, it's made the device work for me

01:43:22   much more than it ever has before.

01:43:24   Yeah, it almost, it's like the way that to me that they broke down the Unix, you know,

01:43:35   we're talking 40 year old Unix multitasking model to a lower level with the original iPhone

01:43:44   in 2007 which was you know panned far and wide by people for not supporting multitasking

01:43:55   which was held up by the ignorant as sort of you know like it's sort of a baby OS that

01:44:02   can't do multitasking whereas anybody with any sort of clue would realize well they started

01:44:08   with Mac OS X, which was Unix, they took multitasking out, right? This isn't like Mac OS was back

01:44:16   in the 90s or Palm OS or something like that, where there was a non-multitasking operating

01:44:21   system that grew to a point where they had to add it or glom it on or start over somehow.

01:44:25   Well, not to interrupt you, but that original demo with Steve Jobs when he showed playing

01:44:28   music, the phone rang, the music faded away, he answered the phone, he went into the web,

01:44:32   he went to email, he went... That blew people's minds who knew multitasking at the time.

01:44:36   Right, and there were things that did multitask.

01:44:39   But there were a lot of others that didn't.

01:44:41   And then you'd hit the home button and the app would exit.

01:44:44   And when you relaunched it, it would start all over again.

01:44:48   It was all based on the constraints,

01:44:50   the incredible constraints of the device

01:44:53   with limited RAM and then limited CPU

01:44:56   that's 85 times less powerful

01:44:58   than the one we have in the iPhone 6.

01:45:00   But it was also not just those technical constraints,

01:45:04   but I think it was a reimagining of the user experience

01:45:07   of a personal computer that could,

01:45:09   you'd want to do things like respond to a text message

01:45:13   while you're watching a video.

01:45:15   And that they've built it back up with XPC

01:45:20   in a way that really makes a ton of sense.

01:45:25   And you don't even have to think about it too much

01:45:27   from a user's perspective, right?

01:45:29   It's just there, just, here's a notification from Renee

01:45:32   asking what time the show's gonna start tonight.

01:45:34   And I'm watching a Yankees game.

01:45:36   You just pull it down a little bit and respond right there

01:45:38   and I didn't have to interrupt the video stream.

01:45:40   But at the same time, solves so many problems

01:45:47   from a typical user's perspective of what can happen

01:45:50   with the traditional multitasking,

01:45:53   where everything just gets to run and runs forever of Unix,

01:45:58   where your whole thing can get slowed down

01:46:01   because everything's running in the background unchecked.

01:46:04   And not even to mention the security and privacy issues.

01:46:09   - It's incredibly, or the same thing,

01:46:11   you're on a website and you wanna quickly check the score,

01:46:13   you can just pull down Notification Center

01:46:15   and the score is in there and you just put it back up,

01:46:17   you go right back to where you're doing,

01:46:19   which is a change, the multitasking was great,

01:46:20   you could tap a notification, you go right to the app,

01:46:23   but then to get back to where you were,

01:46:25   you'd have to leave that app, double tap,

01:46:26   if you remember to do that, go back to the fast app picker,

01:46:29   take the app you had,

01:46:30   or if you wanna switch to another app,

01:46:31   it was just, it was not ideal.

01:46:33   And the other advantage too,

01:46:35   like the security, the privacy, that's enormous

01:46:37   because if you're answering a message in the Facebook app,

01:46:39   Facebook has no idea what you're typing

01:46:41   and that is completely separate.

01:46:43   But if, for example,

01:46:44   if you have a Facebook notification in another app

01:46:47   and Facebook is being a memory hog

01:46:49   and Jetsam gets rid of it,

01:46:50   that notification is completely independent.

01:46:52   You'll still be typing your message

01:46:53   or answering your notification.

01:46:55   You'll never even notice what's happening

01:46:56   with the container app in the background.

01:46:58   and that's a huge reliability boon.

01:47:00   - Yeah, maybe the best layman's term way

01:47:03   to think about extensions and these things

01:47:06   is that they really are like mini apps

01:47:08   that run in their own little mini sandbox.

01:47:12   - Yeah, and it takes an explicit user action

01:47:14   to punch through that, which is a great way of doing it.

01:47:16   - Yeah, yeah.

01:47:17   What else?

01:47:19   Anything else that's sort of like easily overlooked,

01:47:21   wow, I can't believe that's sort of,

01:47:25   I didn't know about that.

01:47:26   There's a lot of really nice things.

01:47:28   For example, if you're in Safari and you go to iCloud tabs, you can close iCloud tabs

01:47:33   on other devices from the device that you're using, which is...

01:47:37   I did not know that.

01:47:38   See, now that's why I had you on the show.

01:47:41   That is a feature I've wanted ever since they invented iCloud tabs.

01:47:44   I mean, there's so many things they're filling in.

01:47:45   I also love that you can go to the settings and go to the settings for any app and you

01:47:49   go into them and there's a tab for notifications there and a tab for privacy there.

01:47:54   I don't know how to find that and they made it easy for developers to get to that, but

01:47:58   I just go there and I can see what this has permission for and I can turn them on or turn

01:48:01   them off.

01:48:03   Explain to me, because this is something I'm confused about.

01:48:06   Explain to me user versus remote notifications, which is a new distinction that didn't exist

01:48:11   before and now it does.

01:48:13   So I mean, I'm not a developer, so I needed like a Brent Simmons type explanation for

01:48:17   this, but my understanding is right now you're automatically opted into the remote notifications

01:48:23   And what that does is things like background refresh.

01:48:25   So a developer can send a silent notification in essence

01:48:30   to tell your app that there's new content to download

01:48:32   or there's a new messages or a new timeline to pull in.

01:48:35   And it'll just go and do that in the background.

01:48:37   And you're automatically opted into that.

01:48:39   You can choose to go and opt out of it,

01:48:41   but they just want that to work.

01:48:42   They don't want any confusion.

01:48:43   And that is now separate from the user facing notifications

01:48:47   like a message notification or a reminder

01:48:50   or an invitation or something.

01:48:51   Hmm.

01:48:54   Third party keyboards, have you tried any of them?

01:48:56   Yeah, I've tried several of them.

01:48:58   They work in the same way.

01:49:00   You download an app.

01:49:01   The app, the only problem with the third party keyboards is that they're not as easy to install.

01:49:06   When you download a widget for example, you pull down Notification Center, it tells you

01:49:10   there's a new widget, you tap the edit button, you can add it right there.

01:49:13   The keyboards, they don't tell you there's a new keyboard.

01:49:15   So you can download it, you go to the key, you pull up the keyboard, there's no indicator

01:49:19   that says there's a new keyboard available.

01:49:21   They have to either tell you in the app or you have to know to go to settings, keyboards,

01:49:24   add third party keyboard and then enable it.

01:49:27   And also because the container apps are so small, if you have a really hefty keyboard

01:49:31   with a lot of predictive text engines or something, that has to stay in the container app.

01:49:35   So you have to grant it access.

01:49:37   There's a grant full access button on the keyboards and it has to be able to talk back

01:49:41   and forth with its app to do a lot of the higher level stuff.

01:49:43   Yeah, I have to say that doesn't seem appealing to me at all.

01:49:46   It's a little buggy as well because sometimes it will revert to the wrong keyboard.

01:49:50   It's not perfect yet, but this is extensibility.

01:49:54   I'd say extensibility is 0.9, a verging on 1.0.

01:49:57   There's just so much stuff and it's such a fundamental change

01:49:59   that I can't even imagine how many bugs they're squashing,

01:50:02   even as it's shipping.

01:50:03   - What's your take on QuickType?

01:50:06   QuickType is the new predictive text thing

01:50:08   where it shows a couple of words above the keyboard.

01:50:10   It takes like an extra row of keys above the keyboard

01:50:13   instead of just showing you one suggestion in line

01:50:16   where you're typing.

01:50:17   - I still have to, I've been using it since,

01:50:19   I installed it the first day WWDC I think you laughed at me when I saw you at the bar

01:50:23   later.

01:50:25   I did.

01:50:26   But I like that I like to see where it is almost immediately enforce myself to use it

01:50:28   and I still don't remember to use it because I'm so used to typing the traditional way

01:50:33   on an iPhone.

01:50:34   Yep yep that's exactly me I almost don't have an opinion on it because I don't even look

01:50:38   at it because I just typed the way I've always typed and my habits are so ingrained.

01:50:43   There's two changes to iOS that makes me feel old in a way and one is that there's so many

01:50:47   people especially who use non iOS devices who were used to SwiftKey or

01:50:50   swipe and they really wanted it and Apple's keyboard was outdated in that

01:50:55   regard but also you take something like iMessage and you know as much as we you

01:50:59   know you or me or Guy might tease Ben Thompson about using line and using like

01:51:03   having whole conversations and stickers there's a whole generation of people who

01:51:07   instant messaging is really instant like you touch something and it goes and it

01:51:10   makes me so nervous because Apple's doing that now and for arbitrary

01:51:14   text strings they can't do that because they don't know when you're finished

01:51:16   typing but if you hit like location in the message thing it just goes if you

01:51:20   hit if you if you use that new the radial interface to make a voice message

01:51:24   just slide up it doesn't populate the field and then let you hit send like you

01:51:28   know someone afraid like I would do it just goes so the instance becomes so

01:51:32   fast it does that with the images too when you send an attachment you pick the

01:51:36   image and say use this image and then it just sends the message it doesn't sit

01:51:40   there in the text field as a message waiting for you to hit a second

01:51:43   send button.

01:51:44   And it's also ephemeral now, almost like Snapchat where by default it'll expire in two minutes

01:51:51   unless you say keep it, and then it'll tell the other person your message has been kept

01:51:55   or they've stopped doing it.

01:51:57   They're being very transparent in what's being done and where, and I think that's good.

01:52:00   Yeah, I'm curious to see how sound bites play out, because I've had it on a beta phone all

01:52:05   summer, but I haven't really had a chance to use it because the sound bites don't really

01:52:08   work unless everybody's on iOS 8.

01:52:11   If you send one to somebody who's still on iOS 7 or on another device, they just get

01:52:15   like an audio file attachment, which they can click and play, but it sounds like you're

01:52:21   giving them a shit sandwich.

01:52:24   You're giving them a doc file instead of just typing out your email.

01:52:28   But with everybody on iOS 8, if your correspondent is on iOS 8, then they can play it.

01:52:34   They can just play it by lifting the phone to their ear.

01:52:36   Yeah, it's great.

01:52:37   On the lock screen, too, Clayton and I were playing with this a little while ago.

01:52:39   send a message and it shows up and it says lift to listen so you pull it up and you listen

01:52:43   to the message and then you can record another message and you put it down and it sends it

01:52:46   and it becomes almost like a walkie talkie just slinging these sound bites back and forth.

01:52:53   The one last thing before I wrap up is and the fast contacts didn't make sense to me

01:53:02   at WWDC. This is now when you go into multitasking. You double tap home and above your multitasking

01:53:09   Windows there's a row of your recent recipients are contacts

01:53:13   Just seemed weird to me like they were just shoving something into empty space

01:53:18   All of a sudden it makes a little bit more sense to me with that communication button on the Apple watch

01:53:23   Because it's the same thing

01:53:26   It's like we're gonna make it really easy to just sort of very quickly no matter what you're currently doing

01:53:31   Somehow communicate with the people who you communicate with most frequently

01:53:38   Both iOS 8 and the watch seemed to be a concerted effort to make logging, authentication, remote control, and communications really work well and work quickly.

01:53:49   There was, in the earlier versions, those contacts were there all the time and I thought, you know, maybe that's not good for privacy if you didn't want everyone glancing at who you were talking to, especially if you had complicated relationships.

01:53:59   You can hide those now, but if you're fine with that, you have both your favorites and

01:54:02   your reasons, and you tap those, and you can instantly FaceTime them, call them, message

01:54:07   them.

01:54:08   Once you get used to it, it's super quick.

01:54:10   We're running up against two-hour, Marc.

01:54:12   We could go on for another two hours, but that's why they make next week's show.

01:54:16   Rene Ritchie at iMore.com.

01:54:18   Do you want to shout out some of your podcasts?

01:54:22   Sure.

01:54:23   I do a podcast called Debug with Guy English.

01:54:25   I do one called iterate with Mark Edwards and Seth Clifford and with our mutual friend Dave whiskus and guy I do

01:54:32   Vector and review too many damn shows. Okay. Remember? Yeah, I wasn't gonna let you list them all

01:54:38   But you can go ahead

01:54:41   No, those are all good friends. And those are all good shows. You're you're I

01:54:46   Feel like back-to-back having Snell and then you I've got the two hardest working podcasters

01:54:52   Who still managed to write thousands of words a week?

01:54:55   week, back to back shows. So I got to have somebody lazy on next week.

01:55:00   I'm so happy about Jason and his new site, Six Colors, and his new podcast upgrade. Because

01:55:06   he's making a lot of content again, and I love the content that he makes.

01:55:09   Yeah. There's just so much. It's so funny because summer can be so slow, and then all

01:55:12   of a sudden so much happens. And it's like the whole Mac world thing and the Snell thing,

01:55:18   we could go on forever. Never even brought up the whole stupid markdown thing from two

01:55:22   weeks ago never even mentioned it you and I hardly have even broached the the

01:55:28   watch it's you know it's too much there's so much to talk about the next

01:55:33   you know by the time we're done talking about it we'll be out there for the next

01:55:35   event in October anyway Renee thank you so much talk to you soon