00:07:22 ◼ ► Like that's the whole foundation of the whole pandemic is that this virus is incredibly
00:07:31 ◼ ► So to have a new variant that is, oh yeah, blows away all the contagiousness, but as it
00:07:37 ◼ ► And it seems to want to stick in your nose and throat because that's, that's what works
00:07:56 ◼ ► actually target there's endeavors over way, underway to develop vaccines that just blanket
00:08:54 ◼ ► I mean, who knows, like did our kids, your and my kids get like an updated measles vaccine
00:09:03 ◼ ► I mean, if they did and it went through a seven year approval process, it all worked out
00:09:08 ◼ ► and nobody really thought, hey, this measles thing is still a huge pain in the ass in the
00:09:13 ◼ ► Whereas I feel like any and all work on COVID vaccines should all be getting, let's remove
00:09:23 ◼ ► We want to make sure it's safe and do some sort of controlled testing to make sure there
00:09:34 ◼ ► And I think ultimately this is just going to be every part of COVID has taken longer to
00:09:44 ◼ ► And I think this is like now we're in this phase where everyone who has the opportunity
00:09:51 ◼ ► to get a vaccine and the will to get a vaccine has generally gotten one now, at least one.
00:10:12 ◼ ► And hopefully we'll eventually, I mean, as you mentioned, there are these vaccines that
00:10:20 ◼ ► And that would be amazing if we ever get those working and approved and safe and distributed.
00:10:39 ◼ ► I know that there's this whole weird, again, I don't want to get into the political aspect
00:11:17 ◼ ► So everybody, Philly, St. Louis, teams places where the ball clubs wear red baseball caps.
00:11:24 ◼ ► But the politics of vaccine resistance aside, I sincerely think that it doesn't show up
00:11:31 ◼ ► in polls because the people who this is true about don't want to admit it even anonymously
00:11:39 ◼ ► But I think that there are a surprising number of adults who really don't like needles.
00:11:44 ◼ ► And I think evolutionarily, that is actually a completely understandable, downright phobia.
00:12:10 ◼ ► And so having a profound fear of any puncture to your skin, even with a hypodermic needle,
00:12:45 ◼ ► Well, I was, hey, what's a better way to spend your Saturday morning than going out to the
00:12:54 ◼ ► And it's like, and I always knew one of them made my arm hurt and the other one didn't.
00:13:12 ◼ ► And when you get allergy shots every Saturday morning, you quickly lose any sort of, you
00:13:18 ◼ ► might as well be sticking it into an orange or something like they do when they're training
00:13:23 ◼ ► It doesn't, doesn't bother me at all, but I totally understand why people have a phobia
00:13:52 ◼ ► Cause I, I think if you go back to what our friend Merlin has said a number of times on
00:13:56 ◼ ► podcasts, that if you, if you don't know why someone is, is doing something or, you know,
00:14:09 ◼ ► to admit to themselves might be the reason that's it's often fear or, or usually a lack
00:14:15 ◼ ► And in the case of anti-vaccine sentiment, I think a ton of that is the fear of getting
00:14:20 ◼ ► shots because most adults don't routinely get shots and haven't gotten a shot in a long
00:14:25 ◼ ► And so the idea of it, and when you're a kid, you're kind of forced to by your parents.
00:14:32 ◼ ► health thing that requires it, but for the most part, you don't usually have to get shots.
00:14:38 ◼ ► And when somebody has a fear and something provides them an out of some political ideologies,
00:14:48 ◼ ► So all those people who were just afraid of getting a shot when their politics tell them,
00:15:01 ◼ ► They will take that answer and they'll, then they'll run with it and you will not win against
00:15:10 ◼ ► I'll tell you what I know, but having gone through it, but it put a real kink in my intended
00:15:16 ◼ ► podcasting schedule because the other side effect of coming out of it was I had no voice,
00:15:25 ◼ ► And the first time we did it, I mean, it was like, I think we recorded about 16 minutes
00:15:31 ◼ ► And when we were done, it was, it was like, my throat felt like I had finished a marathon.
00:15:42 ◼ ► So sorry for the lack of talk shows, although I usually don't have to apologize for that
00:15:56 ◼ ► Every misplaced moment feels like a missed opportunity, a lost chance to make your business
00:16:03 ◼ ► ShipStation gives e-commerce sellers more time to do what they really love, unless what you
00:16:10 ◼ ► really love is managing every single little detail of order fulfillment, which is probably
00:16:20 ◼ ► So you, if you're an e-commerce seller, can get back to focusing on bigger, better, more
00:16:36 ◼ ► It works with all storefronts — Amazon, eBay, Etsy, more — and it lets you automate all
00:16:46 ◼ ► You also get deeply discounted shipping rates, the type of shipping rates that are normally
00:16:53 ◼ ► You get them too as a small seller because you're getting the benefits of the rate that
00:17:01 ◼ ► And you can easily compare carriers for shipping, the rates, delivery time, so it's easy to
00:17:46 ◼ ► Just go to ShipStation.com, click on the microphone at the top of the page, and type in "THETALKSHOW."
00:18:41 ◼ ► So it tastes kind of like beer, but is non-alcoholic and is otherwise just no calories,
00:18:47 ◼ ► It's flavored seltzer, like many of our other flavored seltzer things we're fans of, like
00:18:51 ◼ ► Hal's, but the flavor is hops, which is what makes beer bitter, and so it tastes kind of
00:19:32 ◼ ► Tastes like a regular Heineken, which is not my favorite type of beer, but I kind of...
00:19:37 ◼ ► It's kind of uncanny how it tastes like a Heineken, but that stuff has like 69 calories,
00:20:28 ◼ ► But if you happen to like flavored seltzer and you happen to like beer, it's pretty good.
00:20:55 ◼ ► Like it's so it's like some kind of industrial strength sanitizing cleanser that they hurriedly
00:21:02 ◼ ► wipe on the tray in the five minutes between allowing the old passengers to get off and
00:21:19 ◼ ► I will say like the reason I started going for this stuff is I wanted to like still have
00:21:42 ◼ ► The one thing about this kind of odd though is it because it still tastes like something
00:22:04 ◼ ► Yeah, like if I'm like going to go to my computer to get some coding work done, I would
00:22:26 ◼ ► It's it's because there is none it's a hop type thing and I've never had hop type tastes
00:22:57 ◼ ► And it's when you get it from Amazon, of course, they they put it in basically a paper bag.
00:23:06 ◼ ► So you get it's so beaten up but so and every can I've gotten so far has been at least slightly
00:23:17 ◼ ► My corner bodega where I buy actual beer and I was there just the other day and I bought
00:23:28 ◼ ► I mentioned it to the guy because I was buying the Heineken Zero and he was like, oh, you
00:25:12 ◼ ► And you answer a couple questions and then they make some recommendations and then they
00:25:26 ◼ ► But they've got like a guarantee if they send you coffee and you don't like it, you can
00:25:30 ◼ ► get, go back and talk to a chat with a consultant at Trade and they'll send you another batch
00:25:47 ◼ ► But what they do is they get you freshly roasted beans from 60 of the country's best craft
00:26:11 ◼ ► If you're buying stuff off the shelf at like a supermarket or something like that, it's
00:26:33 ◼ ► And when you subscribe, you have so much flexibility on how frequently you want more coffee to
00:27:06 ◼ ► They are offering new subscribers a total of $30 off your first order plus free shipping.
00:27:38 ◼ ► So on April 14th, I'm keenly aware now of all these dates after having spent quite some
00:27:47 ◼ ► April 14th, I ordered a studio display with nano texture glass and an adjustable stand.
00:27:56 ◼ ► It did not arrive late, but it was not set to arrive until I forget what the window was,
00:28:02 ◼ ► but it was like pretty much the month of June and it did not arrive until the end of June.
00:28:14 ◼ ► I waited till after and then I came home and I had COVID and I just didn't feel like doing
00:28:21 ◼ ► it and I didn't set it up until today and took it out of the box and put it on my desk.
00:28:35 ◼ ► It was sunny after a really sunny afternoon and the, I still have the review unit of the
00:28:46 ◼ ► And I really just keenly observed with, without the display on just black, how much reflection
00:28:54 ◼ ► And then how much was on the nano texture, which was not none, but it's not, it's, it's
00:29:14 ◼ ► So when you plug in the studio display, because you know how it's an iOS, I know it has to
00:29:23 ◼ ► So what it does is as soon as it gets power, the screen comes on, it's still black, but
00:29:28 ◼ ► you could tell it's on because it's no longer the richest, inkiest black, black of an off
00:29:34 ◼ ► It is now a display that is powered on showing black, but they have three dots and they,
00:29:47 ◼ ► I was like, cause I have to go under my desk to plug it in and I'm plugging it in and I
00:30:21 ◼ ► out of the power, which I think for most people naturally is going to be under their desk,
00:30:37 ◼ ► You know, like when I was in college and I got jobs as a young kid who knows how to deal
00:31:01 ◼ ► And if they just had a goddamn button, just a button, something that make it a long press,
00:31:06 ◼ ► even what if you really want to make it one of those little pinhole buttons that you have
00:31:33 ◼ ► But that's, you can like look at apple.support.apple.com, how to restart a studio display, and they're
00:31:48 ◼ ► Anyway, I plugged this new one in, I get the three dots, but they're only up there like
00:31:54 ◼ ► And then it's black again, and then I connect my MacBook Pro, and the display doesn't turn
00:32:59 ◼ ► But then I took the paperwork out, the getting started, and I'm like, there's got to be
00:33:10 ◼ ► And I look at it and it just says, plug it into power, plug it into your Mac, and it'll
00:33:20 ◼ ► And then I thought, well, let me, I did something to make a noise on my Mac, and it played through
00:33:29 ◼ ► And I went to system preferences, displays, and it had nothing but the built-in MacBook
00:33:51 ◼ ► And I chose studio display camera, and I got the wonderfully crisp, high resolution image
00:34:48 ◼ ► I don't think I've ever gotten a significant product from Apple that was a lemon, or even
00:35:06 ◼ ► The one and only lemon I've ever gotten from Apple, one and only, was my first Series Zero
00:35:34 ◼ ► And I contacted Apple, and they sent someone like a courier over with a replacement, and
00:35:42 ◼ ► And somebody from Apple came in an hour later to my door, rang the doorbell with a replacement,
00:35:50 ◼ ► But I thought, son of a bitch, this expensive display, which is going to be such a pain
00:36:05 ◼ ► But then I thought, ah, Jesus Christ, it took three months for this thing to show up, or
00:36:34 ◼ ► So poor, poor me, I was going to have to suffer and keep my review unit for another two months
00:36:58 ◼ ► So I took the Thunderbolt cable, the Apple one, from the review unit display, used that
00:37:38 ◼ ► Now, if it was like a, you know, like a lightning cable or something like that, I'd just throw
00:38:02 ◼ ► I think Thunderbolt 4 just means that it's also guaranteed to also carry USB at maximum
00:38:22 ◼ ► Glenn Fleischmann has written like a 700-page book explaining all these cables, and he's
00:38:33 ◼ ► But yeah, I don't know if a Thunderbolt 3 USB-C cable is actually different from Thunderbolt
00:39:30 ◼ ► But they don't seem to sell this one-meter cable, so I don't know how much it would cost
00:39:35 ◼ ► If you go to apple.com, it seems like the only ones they sell are 1.8 meters and 3 meters.
00:39:42 ◼ ► And the 1.8-meter cable is 130 bucks, and the 3-meter one is like 170 or something like
00:40:14 ◼ ► from my iPhone, they recognized the number, and then they sent an alert to all my devices
00:40:26 ◼ ► When I explained my problem to the woman who answered, she-- I actually-- I think I did
00:40:32 ◼ ► a more concise version than I just did talking here on the show, but explained that I have
00:40:58 ◼ ► And then she asked the very insightful question, "Did I try the new cable on the old studio
00:41:30 ◼ ► I will say, like, if you, like, the Thunderbolt 4 cables that are on the market, there aren't
00:41:46 ◼ ► But it is a Thunderbolt 4 cable, and what that means is you plug it into any USB-C hole,
00:41:57 ◼ ► It supports all the power, all the data transfer, Thunderbolt and USB modes at full speed on
00:42:07 ◼ ► But if you want all of your problem solved with the Thunderbolt cables, you can get these
00:42:28 ◼ ► I happen to have at least one other true Thunderbolt, I don't know even, again, I guess, no, the
00:42:39 ◼ ► I bought it for use doing like migration assistant, which we can get to in a minute as I talk
00:42:55 ◼ ► But my Monoprice one has the little lightning logo on it, but it also says three, so it
00:43:20 ◼ ► camera, the microphones and all that stuff, whereas the XDR, the only reason it has USB
00:43:34 ◼ ► But if you happen to have the four, the four is what guarantees that we'll also have the
00:44:50 ◼ ► be the same problem, but they were all from back in like April, and it was one of those
00:44:54 ◼ ► like unsatisfying threads where nobody seemed to know what to do, other than to send the
00:44:59 ◼ ► It seemed like most of the people on the thread solved the problem by sending the whole
00:45:06 ◼ ► So I'm tossing this out there because getting a new cable is a hell of a lot easier than
00:45:11 ◼ ► getting a new display, and in fact, if you get your display and have the bum cable like
00:45:21 ◼ ► studio display, you might have a Thunderbolt 3 or 4 cable or 2 or 3 or drawer full of them
00:45:34 ◼ ► That would have taken me, like, I think it would have taken me a very long time to figure
00:45:51 ◼ ► It's like, when you're a programmer and you're running into a bug, you never want to blame
00:46:06 ◼ ► It's never the compiler's fault, except like maybe once in your career, it might actually
00:46:44 ◼ ► And the other thing, too, is like sometimes and I know you guys on ATP have talked about
00:46:56 ◼ ► Sometimes lightning cables develop like either, A, they fray, like because the way Apple makes
00:47:12 ◼ ► connector, the actual rubber, whatever you call the substance that wraps the cable would
00:47:19 ◼ ► Like if it looks frayed, if you can actually see the copper from a hole in the wire and
00:47:30 ◼ ► Or when the little, I don't know what you call them, the little copper things, the little
00:47:51 ◼ ► If the cable is brand new, I never, I'm actually sort of pleased with myself that it even occurred
00:47:59 ◼ ► That can be your victory for well, but I wonder if I would have tried my Monoprice Thunderbolt
00:48:05 ◼ ► cable if I didn't have happened to be a weirdo product reviewer who had another studio display
00:48:36 ◼ ► So I got it partly partly because my 14 inch is having a lot of weird problems and I think
00:49:01 ◼ ► I mentioned this briefly on ATP a couple episodes ago and I've heard from a couple of people
00:49:07 ◼ ► already who say their 14 inch MacBook Pro has the same problem, which is very concerning
00:49:52 ◼ ► But I think there may also be a hardware component here, so I don't know what's going on.
00:49:55 ◼ ► Oh, and I have to like reboot it regularly in order for FaceTime calls to come in, because
00:50:11 ◼ ► So I I got when the M1 Max and Pro laptops came out last fall, I replaced my whole setup
00:50:23 ◼ ► And I and I haven't done a clean install for a while because Migration Assistant is really
00:50:28 ◼ ► And so you can you can carry forward a Migration Assistant installation of your computer for
00:50:46 ◼ ► And so I literally on my desk when I set these up, I had the 14 inch and the 16 inch right
00:50:54 ◼ ► And because I have gotten myself used to using a trackpad with my left hand at my desk, I
00:51:00 ◼ ► right mouse left trackpad, I was able to operate the trackpad of both of them at the same time
00:51:37 ◼ ► Anyway, so I got to do I got to figure out what's going on there and have something there.
00:52:02 ◼ ► But there are a bunch of reasons why it was it didn't really make sense for me to do that
00:52:06 ◼ ► But with this, this was literally just like, if if I do nothing, if I don't opt out, if
00:52:29 ◼ ► I mean, using overcast in the Mac is terrible, in my opinion, usually you're using it, not
00:53:01 ◼ ► However, occasionally, there's some weird bug in either like that layer, like the whatever
00:53:08 ◼ ► the catalyst like layer is that makes these apps run on the Mac, or a bug in Xcode, where
00:53:48 ◼ ► And so now like, okay, now I have to actually so and then thirdly, I am also working in
00:53:55 ◼ ► Xcode doing a lot of new Swift UI work trying to kind of build like the the found the next
00:54:24 ◼ ► And so I've never run the Mac betas ever because I'm not I haven't been a Mac developer
00:54:30 ◼ ► like of Mac apps that matter except me forecast but that's that's not a big app and that
00:54:47 ◼ ► I'm also a podcaster and most audio software either won't run on the betas or shouldn't
00:55:31 ◼ ► So here I am long story short with the MacBook Air and I was fortunate enough to be at WWDC
00:55:42 ◼ ► And I that that broke me like as soon as I picked one up I was like, oh, oh, this feels
00:55:53 ◼ ► I did the same thing where I got to the hands-on area after the event and I had number one
00:56:21 ◼ ► And I had no interest in clicking around Mac OS on this or doing anything on the computer
00:56:38 ◼ ► MacBook Pro with the notch and it's not the ProMotion one with the higher resolution and
00:56:54 ◼ ► All I wanted to do was pick it up and I wanted to close the lid, open the lid, close the
00:57:00 ◼ ► lid, open the lid, pick it up while the lid was open, pick it up while the lid was closed,
00:57:41 ◼ ► Well, in fact, I'm sure I threw out like a shout out to Apple's hinge team in my review
00:57:48 ◼ ► The hinges, even through the butterfly keyboard era of bad MacBooks of the last six years,
00:57:56 ◼ ► the hinges have continued to get nothing but better, nothing but better on Apple's laptops.
00:58:13 ◼ ► And the hinge does indeed, it does indeed lift the screen without lifting the bottom part.
00:58:19 ◼ ► It's so light though, the danger you get into is it does, it does sort of slide around the
00:58:29 ◼ ► And there's, I don't see how there's anything they can do about that as they continue to get lighter.
00:58:59 ◼ ► And it is, it's interesting because it is in many ways a low-end product and that's part of
00:59:13 ◼ ► it is what, before the current 14 and 16 inch laptops, all of the 2016 forward models, I believe,
00:59:41 ◼ ► So they were just running it in a scaled mode that was like very slightly soft looking.
00:59:50 ◼ ► They finally made it so that it was exactly 2x pixels natively to its default settings.
01:00:19 ◼ ► But it's a small enough difference that I wouldn't make the decision based solely upon that.
01:01:00 ◼ ► Yeah, I think five years ago, I because five years ago, when they did make this change,
01:01:04 ◼ ► And I actually would run my laptops at the larger scaled mode, just so it would be native
01:01:29 ◼ ► One thing I did notice, though, is that and it was just instantly, the bezel around the
01:01:48 ◼ ► However, when you compare it directly to the 14 inch, it is the 14 inch looks higher end
01:02:04 ◼ ► Except I think that with the MacBook Air to the MacBook Pros, it's even more of a difference.
01:02:29 ◼ ► a month ago at WWDC that the bezel was thicker because I had nothing to compare it against.
01:02:45 ◼ ► But overall, though, like I as soon as like I've been carried around the house doing various
01:03:01 ◼ ► But in comparison, it's a massive difference, like psychologically, like when you pick it
01:03:49 ◼ ► But the other downside to it, because I just I looked it up while writing my review last
01:04:19 ◼ ► I have an 11 inch iPad Pro with the keyboard case, not the old kind of keyboard case, not
01:04:46 ◼ ► I bet they could, that would be a heck of a product, assuming there weren't again assuming
01:05:00 ◼ ► with that, that I think is the main trick, you know, assuming that it would just basically
01:05:04 ◼ ► be what we have now with this 13 inch Air, just kind of like shaving off the edges next
01:05:26 ◼ ► And I guarantee you this would always sell way, way, way more than a smaller one would.
01:05:31 ◼ ► But I think there is an appetite for a smaller MacBook ever since they discontinued the 12
01:05:37 ◼ ► And this gets very close to solving that need, but it doesn't quite get there in certain
01:05:45 ◼ ► And the iPad just sitting there showing us like, look, you can run this exact same hardware
01:05:52 ◼ ► I think the only downside I really do believe that the one and only downside is it would
01:06:18 ◼ ► The new MacBook Air, the one that we're talking about, the M2 MacBook Air doesn't, even though
01:06:24 ◼ ► it has aluminum to the left and right of the keyboard, that's not where the speakers are.
01:06:36 ◼ ► I think there's four speakers and I think some are under the keyboard and some are firing
01:07:06 ◼ ► Relative to other current Macs, they're awful, but I see why they did it the way they did
01:07:18 ◼ ► So to move up to the much more complicated speaker setup that the 14 inch has, it takes
01:07:35 ◼ ► The speakers are significantly less loud at max volume and are substantially worse quality.
01:07:41 ◼ ► Yeah, but that's compared to the MacBook Pro, which starts at $2,000 compared to the older
01:08:18 ◼ ► And I just, the fact that it doesn't use speaker grills to the side makes me think whatever
01:08:26 ◼ ► I think they would call it 11 inch though to give it two inches of marketing separation,
01:08:55 ◼ ► My eyes, I mean, you really have to have like vision problems not to see that difference
01:09:06 ◼ ► That's the same thing I thought as I use the MacBook Air for a week to write my review.
01:09:36 ◼ ► Hover has over 300 domain name extensions, the top level domains, the things like dotcom, dotnet,
01:09:45 ◼ ► 300 of them to choose from when you're building your brand online, no matter what you want to
01:10:02 ◼ ► Their search will help you find either something something else.com or something something dot
01:10:12 ◼ ► It's not like some stupid regular expression search thing that I would write in two minutes.
01:10:21 ◼ ► You type what you're hoping for and they make really, really good suggestions to help you
01:10:32 ◼ ► Also, Hover has absolutely phenomenal support, a support team, and they they're really just
01:10:42 ◼ ► Like if you have domain names at a different registrar who you'd like to move to Hover,
01:10:47 ◼ ► they will do everything necessary to help you move that stuff over so that nothing gets
01:11:12 ◼ ► And they don't need to upsell you because when you get a domain at Hover, you get everything
01:11:46 ◼ ► If you want, you can actually keep your site anchored at Hover if you don't have somewhere
01:12:09 ◼ ► You get a 10% discount, and you get that discount with a referral link on all new purchases.
01:12:27 ◼ ► I mentioned this in my review, and I kind of felt guilty about it because I was looking
01:12:41 ◼ ► And it's like if Apple never makes a smaller than 13-inch MacBook again, I think that's
01:13:14 ◼ ► of anything really, but I volunteered to be on sort of an alumni group at Drexel University
01:13:52 ◼ ► He's all over campus, all over Philadelphia, all day, every day, taking his MacBook with
01:14:44 ◼ ► They stopped making it around the same time that they started moving away from the butterfly
01:14:49 ◼ ► And I think that machine would have been the hardest one to move away from it, just because
01:15:14 ◼ ► They were able to do a direct swap, and the rest of the machine did not change noticeably.
01:15:29 ◼ ► And so it didn't seem like it's that much thicker, which just makes the butterfly keyboard
01:15:42 ◼ ► But I think, obviously, things are very different now, architecturally, and the power and heat
01:15:50 ◼ ► And I think when they were doing this transition to Apple Silicon, I predicted on ATP, and
01:16:06 ◼ ► That now they could show off what they could really make with these awesome new chips that
01:16:11 ◼ ► had such low power needs, and they were going to really flex what they could do and have
01:16:44 ◼ ► Apple has done a very good job of keeping continuous updates and continuous manufacturing
01:16:51 ◼ ► and continuous service through what has to have been a ridiculously challenging time for
01:16:58 ◼ ► And they've mostly shielded us from that, like almost every other company that you need
01:17:06 ◼ ► And you've had everything's weirdly out of stock and things are delayed weirdly and they
01:17:12 ◼ ► Apple has done a very good job of hiding any of that from really coming out, like for their
01:17:26 ◼ ► Like it's crazy, I'm sure, behind the scenes, but they've done a very good job of preventing
01:17:47 ◼ ► Or maybe the reason was that they just aren't ready to do it yet and they were focusing
01:18:40 ◼ ► Like that when you first picked up a 12 inch MacBook, it was like, you couldn't believe
01:19:19 ◼ ► Whereas a hypothetical 11 inch version of this could be a total wow for every dimension,
01:19:29 ◼ ► And I had the same thought as you where for that stretch of years where we all knew, even
01:20:07 ◼ ► I thought the same thing as you that they'll start with the, wow, look how tiny this thing
01:20:13 ◼ ► And instead they did the total opposite, which is that they put all of the original M1 Macs
01:20:19 ◼ ► were literally put into the exact same form factors of the previous generation, last generation
01:20:37 ◼ ► they wanted to keep it as secret as possible for as long as possible, just in case so that
01:20:43 ◼ ► they, whatever, however permanently damaged their relationship with Intel would be once
01:20:48 ◼ ► this was official, they wanted to delay that as long as possible, keep competitors from
01:21:15 ◼ ► Like if you're going to switch from this database server to that database server, don't
01:21:27 ◼ ► And then once you're sure that the new database is every bit as good, or hopefully why else
01:21:37 ◼ ► And that they had that sort of mindset with the Macs of let's just not change anything.
01:21:44 ◼ ► Let's not take any chances of something like somebody who has a bright idea of let's put
01:22:00 ◼ ► And then if that goes well, then we'll start building new Mac form factors around Apple
01:22:07 ◼ ► Makes all the sense in the world, but yeah, it would be nice to have the small footprint.
01:22:44 ◼ ► Like we've gone like the MacBook Pro went from 13 to 14 inches, not by making it bigger,
01:23:19 ◼ ► My wife is a fan of the 16 inch MacBook Pro and was one of the fans of the 17 inch MacBook
01:23:39 ◼ ► She likes to use it in the kitchen, does not want to have an iMac in the kitchen all the
01:23:55 ◼ ► Now, I said this in my review and some people pointed out that back when they had the iBooks,
01:24:01 ◼ ► the G4 iBooks, they sold, I think they called 12 inch and 14 inch and that the 14 inch arguably
01:24:09 ◼ ► But I'm going to say no because both of both the 12 inch G4 iBook and the 14 inch G4 iBook
01:24:37 ◼ ► hubris of youth, I thought, why would anybody voluntarily buy a bigger, heavier one that
01:24:53 ◼ ► And it's nicer to be able to read it or read it more comfortably than not be able to read
01:25:14 ◼ ► And one of the reasons, I guess the reason is that Apple likes to sell expensive products.
01:25:21 ◼ ► And I know there's a lot of people who probably they're going to leave some money on the
01:25:35 ◼ ► inch display because they want the 16 inch display, even though that's the one and only
01:25:45 ◼ ► They just want the bigger display, but they're spending like literally twice the money,
01:26:02 ◼ ► But if you don't care about any of that other stuff, all you want is a large laptop that
01:26:16 ◼ ► limitations of being in the Mac ecosystem where you get to choose any hardware you want
01:26:55 ◼ ► upgrade all the way to a starts at $2500 16 inch MacBook Pro just to get a large laptop.
01:27:01 ◼ ► So yeah, and I I think if you if you look at what Apple how they price the existing lineup
01:28:00 ◼ ► And there's a nicer screen, the nicer speakers like there's the other the different port
01:28:09 ◼ ► But when you compare them spec for spec, roughly you're looking at 600 bucks to go from
01:28:36 ◼ ► It would be two or $300 more than the regular air spec for spec matched, but they would
01:28:51 ◼ ► But there would still like once you look at like where it would start, there would still
01:29:03 ◼ ► I know I think it would be an $800 gap because it's $2500 for the cheapest 16 inch MacBook
01:29:14 ◼ ► This is one of the mistakes I've got to correct in an update or not an update, but like a
01:29:26 ◼ ► But what I forgot about is that the $2000 base 14 inch MacBook Pro is chip in two ways.
01:29:45 ◼ ► So if you if you and the 16 inch MacBook Pro has no eight cores GPU or CPU or 14 core CPU
01:29:55 ◼ ► options, you can only get the the true unbend and M1 Pro and M1 Max that have 10 core and
01:30:07 ◼ ► So once you move the 14 inch MacBook Pro to 10 core CPU, 16 core GPU, it's it's exactly
01:30:23 ◼ ► So that would mean let's assume that a 15 inch MacBook Air would also not have any chip
01:30:48 ◼ ► Like I will always buy all the CPU cores I can get, but I couldn't care less about GPU.
01:31:02 ◼ ► So if it's only a $200 upgrade, but they don't have bend discount options, that would be
01:31:22 ◼ ► Oh, my God, that's and the rumors are that this fall that they're going to have a consumer
01:31:37 ◼ ► And so if that's if that's true, and all the rumors seem pretty solid on that, and iPhone
01:31:46 ◼ ► If that's the case, then I think Apple has realized it is worth covering the market for
01:32:20 ◼ ► from fortunately, the PC market sells a whole bunch of 13 inch laptops, and also a whole
01:32:27 ◼ ► And there is clearly a market for a bit bigger screen, but still don't care about pro stuff,
01:33:03 ◼ ► people who otherwise would have bought a 16 inch MacBook Pro that they don't need, except
01:33:12 ◼ ► And compare it to the number of people who look at those options and think, boy, I wish
01:33:36 ◼ ► I think that Tim Cook is very happy with this solution because I think they make they they
01:33:47 ◼ ► just bought the 13 inch MacBook Air that they kind of feel is too small for what they really
01:34:00 ◼ ► They're going to sell if they if they actually make this product, they will sell a ton of
01:34:56 ◼ ► You could see by going to that URL why they Linode has been voted the top infrastructure
01:35:49 ◼ ► Managed databases allow you to quickly deploy a new database and defer management tasks
01:35:54 ◼ ► like configurations, managing high availability, disaster recovery, backups, data replication.
01:36:01 ◼ ► With managed databases, you'll get simple and fast deployment, secure access, daily backups
01:36:16 ◼ ► They offer the best price of performance value for all compute instances, including GPUs,
01:37:00 ◼ ► If they called me up and said, hey, we've loved all these sponsorships, but we're done.
01:37:07 ◼ ► I would still recommend them to everybody who listens to me because I sure as hell wouldn't
01:37:41 ◼ ► I think I pay them something like $7,000 a month right now because I have a lot of servers.
01:37:54 ◼ ► And I've slowly moved all of my stuff there over the last, I don't know, eight or 10 years
01:38:17 ◼ ► answered the wrong spam call and got suckered into a term life insurance policy, even though
01:38:46 ◼ ► going to have a white keyboard, a white screen bezel, and then all the all the light aluminum
01:38:53 ◼ ► colors that we have on the current iMacs that also kind of follow that white and white and
01:39:11 ◼ ► It sounded like it was really going to fit our collective mood coming out of the pandemic.
01:39:19 ◼ ► We're going to let's buy a rainbow of computers, and it would be this great groundbreaking
01:39:35 ◼ ► a combination of Apple, I think conservatism with larger products, even though they like
01:39:55 ◼ ► And anyway, that's my review. My iPad Air review unit, which I still have, is that color blue,
01:40:10 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean, I even I don't know if I think I don't know if it's the same as the iPad Air.
01:40:57 ◼ ► And if the whole screen bezel has to be black, that means the keyboard has to be black.
01:41:52 ◼ ► That's when I when I got the M1 MacBook Air, I got that gold because I wanted something new.
01:41:57 ◼ ► Like it was a brand new architecture, radically different computer from the ones that came
01:42:27 ◼ ► I I've I went through my phase as a nerd of buying everything black and like everything
01:42:58 ◼ ► I never had that problem with mismatched magsafe connectors with the M1 or the M1 Pro and Max
01:43:39 ◼ ► Even the one that Tim Cook was handling is covered in fingerprints and it is a fingerprint
01:43:45 ◼ ► magnet and I noticed that instantly and and they try to keep things pretty clean and they
01:44:48 ◼ ► When you're when you're a video publication, you got to get video footage of the new product.
01:44:56 ◼ ► Starlight technically is new but it's it's kind of boring and it's kind of in the ballpark
01:45:01 ◼ ► So midnight is the one that everybody wants footage of everyone wants a nice good video
01:45:37 ◼ ► Okay, and they start clearing the area around this one that I've been waiting for that.
01:45:48 ◼ ► It's so from the entrance to the right and I because I was there and I remember you could
01:46:08 ◼ ► Yeah, there were not well and the ones that they had the all the ones they had were the
01:46:12 ◼ ► ones on the display where they showed it was sort of like a Pac-Man mouth slowly closing.
01:46:20 ◼ ► It was a very cool thing, but it's like hey, can you take some of those down and let us
01:46:34 ◼ ► Tim Cook is coming everyone starts mobbing this area because they want a chance to talk
01:46:49 ◼ ► So he's coming up and I couldn't care less, but I didn't want to lose my place in line.
01:47:10 ◼ ► Like when when he comes up, he's he's being shot by a photographer across the room with
01:47:22 ◼ ► cursor in a circle on the trackpad doing nothing and he starts typing random letters on the
01:47:27 ◼ ► But like there isn't even a notes window open. He's just typing letters with the desktop
01:47:40 ◼ ► And when you see the other side of it when you're actually seeing what he's doing, it's
01:47:43 ◼ ► just it's so weird and it's like inhuman almost you're like what like this is so weirdly
01:48:10 ◼ ► You can't get him to break whatever character he wants to be like he is doing his thing
01:48:26 ◼ ► Or if I got this from ATP when you told the story there, somebody some kook yelled, Tim,
01:48:53 ◼ ► I don't know if it's because the hands on area was in that upstairs atrium at the Steve
01:49:57 ◼ ► I wouldn't be surprised if the security people around Tim Cook look at that and think we
01:50:22 ◼ ► Ive and Tim Cook came in for their photo shoot where Johnny was like explaining the design
01:50:27 ◼ ► of the holes in the front of the case to Tim Cook and like and they were doing that photo
01:51:08 ◼ ► I've got one and it is amusing because you're just bemused and Johnny and Tim are playing
01:51:58 ◼ ► And it's damn well that he's aware of everything about these products and 60 minutes prior
01:52:08 ◼ ► to the moment of Johnny showing him, you know, look at here is where we put here's where
01:52:27 ◼ ► credit like even though he is extremely controlled when he's actually doing like whatever the
01:52:32 ◼ ► little skit or interaction is that he's doing for the photo op on his way in he is very
01:52:50 ◼ ► he and that's one of the reasons it takes him forever to actually get to the place he's
01:53:38 ◼ ► Steve Jobs was still alive and it's just much much smaller and yes the tail end of Steve
01:53:51 ◼ ► explosion of increased popularity and interest in the company right but the Steve Jobs era
01:53:58 ◼ ► hands on things were so chill and there were just fewer media whether it was because of
01:54:10 ◼ ► invited the video era hadn't really started and there were far far far fewer people trying
01:54:18 ◼ ► I mean there were photographers but it was much more it felt like most of the photographers
01:54:25 ◼ ► were from major publications like just a handful like the New York Times would send a photographer
01:54:31 ◼ ► but that most of the people shooting photos were just people like me or the like the staff
01:54:39 ◼ ► from the verge it's it's neil i patel shooting photos not a photographer and it just jobs
01:54:48 ◼ ► never ever got mobbed like that and he never did the pantomime i'm going to pretend to see
01:54:52 ◼ ► the device for the first time he would just walk through the hands-on era area and spent
01:55:02 ◼ ► katie cotton and katie cotton just sort of i i i didn't i tried not to be creepy i don't
01:55:10 ◼ ► think i got creepy but i got i was like fascinated by the dynamic of how steve jobs would work
01:55:20 ◼ ► knew and wanted to talk to well katie would pick up on that and just let him go whether
01:55:26 ◼ ► it was somebody else from apple like hey there's scott forestall and steve has something to
01:55:30 ◼ ► say to scott forestall he'd just go over and talk to him or steve sees walt mosberg he'd
01:55:35 ◼ ► just go over and start talking to walt because he knew him but for the most part then he'd
01:55:40 ◼ ► wander around and and as he'd approach somebody katie would know who katie cotton would know
01:55:45 ◼ ► who she wanted him to talk to and she would say this is so-and-so from the new york times
01:55:55 ◼ ► he would just always say the same thing which tim cook does too if you do talk to him which
01:55:59 ◼ ► i've done a handful of times just the same question every time so what do you think which
01:56:05 ◼ ► is great if you think about it right so yeah steve jobs knows what the fuck he thinks of
01:56:10 ◼ ► the new iphone 3g8 4 or whatever the hell was coming out he knows what he thinks he knows what
01:56:14 ◼ ► you think right but so what do you think and then there's the opener and then the person would say
01:56:18 ◼ ► it and then and then very quickly katie cotton would be the bad bad bad guy and say we've got
01:56:24 ◼ ► we have to move and then she say hey here's so-and-so from usa today and that's how he'd
01:56:28 ◼ ► worked the room just talk to some press and then i don't know i never saw him leave it was one of
01:56:33 ◼ ► those it was like a magician it's like i don't know yeah he was there he was walking around
01:56:36 ◼ ► everybody was like oh there's steve but the other thing is that steve jobs had sort of a
01:56:40 ◼ ► darth vader ishness to him like he's scary right like people yeah you wouldn't you wouldn't just
01:56:46 ◼ ► like run up to no no walt mosberg might but he wouldn't have to run right he would just
01:56:51 ◼ ► he's fucking walt mosberg and they know each other and maybe yeah a walt what'd you think
01:56:55 ◼ ► if i saw steve walk if i was in one of those areas which i never was when he was alive but if i when
01:56:59 ◼ ► i was in one of those areas if steve walked by the last thing i would do would be to walk towards him
01:57:04 ◼ ► i would be like oh my god like i am i it'd be like like do you like there's the protocol you don't
01:57:08 ◼ ► touch the queen like right like what what's the protocol with steve do i do i look at him do i
01:57:13 ◼ ► pretend like he's not there do it like do i say hello do i wait for him like he must talk to me
01:57:18 ◼ ► i don't talk to him like that's that's how it would feel you'd know it without even seeing him
01:57:23 ◼ ► you'd feel it like the force so you'd be like whoa whoa why the hairs on my neck standing up holy
01:57:27 ◼ ► shit steve jobs is coming towards me and like you said you'd be like i better i better move further
01:57:31 ◼ ► away right yeah it is a very different era i mean and i don't know like in the alternate world where
01:57:38 ◼ ► steve jobs never got sick or stayed stayed ahead of the cancer and and had been around for a decade
01:57:43 ◼ ► longer or wouldn't it be wonderful if he was still here what would he do i don't know i i i
01:57:51 ◼ ► refuse to believe he ever would have played the game where johnny i've pretends to show him the
01:57:55 ◼ ► thing for the first time but maybe maybe they would never would have taken a selfie with random
01:58:00 ◼ ► people in the in the area i don't know i don't think so i i really don't like it yeah i don't
01:58:04 ◼ ► think so because he he got in and got out and i don't think he i don't i just don't think he had
01:58:09 ◼ ► patience like tim cook does i think tim cook one of you know his many many many genius level gifts
01:58:15 ◼ ► is i think he has a genius level of patience because i i don't know if i were tim cook there's
01:58:20 ◼ ► no freaking way that when i visit a random apple store because i'm in new york or atlanta or
01:58:25 ◼ ► wherever i am that i would spend 90 minutes greeting people and taking selfies and stuff
01:58:30 ◼ ► like that i don't know i mean i love meeting people don't don't get me wrong but like when
01:58:35 ◼ ► i meet people at wwdc it takes me five minutes it's not tim cook well in all fairness we have
01:58:40 ◼ ► fewer people who want to meet us in that way well right right it's like if i had the level of
01:58:45 ◼ ► attention and and the number of people who wanted to get take a selfie with me that tim cook did i
01:58:50 ◼ ► would have to have somebody say you got to get me away from these people it's it's unbelievable
01:58:54 ◼ ► i have not seen midnight again because i haven't been to an apple store i only i've so the last
01:58:59 ◼ ► time i saw it was wwdc i love it because i wish apple made a black or near black macbook pro i the
01:59:07 ◼ ► one thing that makes me jealous when i go on airplanes is the way people with high-end think
01:59:11 ◼ ► pads and it's always been the case i i think they look great i thought that the last time
01:59:17 ◼ ► apple's mac laptops look great was when the power books were black and you know that i mean that's
01:59:23 ◼ ► ancient history at this point oh wow i think that's a great look i just i'm boring i like
01:59:28 ◼ ► dark stuff my favorite iphone color of all time was the i forget what color they called it just
01:59:35 ◼ ► the black of the iphone 7 no the one it was the iphone 5 where they had the bezel and it wore off
01:59:41 ◼ ► over the course of the year right because it's like in the way that like blue jeans look better
01:59:46 ◼ ► after you've washed them a couple times people complained about the black wearing off where you
01:59:51 ◼ ► touched it on like the iphone 5 but i thought it looked awesome i thought it was like the millennium
01:59:56 ◼ ► falcon looking aged in a cool way but i did also like the black iphone 7s i had a devil of it that
02:00:04 ◼ ► was the only time i've ever had a really hard time picking what to buy jet black remember they had
02:00:08 ◼ ► jet black and regular black yeah and yeah and phil schiller was just black yeah very odd but i could
02:00:13 ◼ ► see why they had both which seems really odd because they both looked awesome i so i would
02:00:18 ◼ ► jet black was amazing i i still have it it's right here in the drawer over here i still have it and
02:00:21 ◼ ► this is i finally have to retire it as my testing phone because i was 16 doesn't work on it yeah
02:00:25 ◼ ► it was a hell of a thing so i like that but i have to admit with i have to agree with your assessment
02:00:31 ◼ ► midnight on the macbook air looks like black or near black with a slightly oh yeah it is sort of
02:00:40 ◼ ► bluish in certain light from certain angles it is way more black or near black with a slight blue
02:00:48 ◼ ► tint than blue than like a dark blue or something like that i also think i like in my review because
02:00:53 ◼ ► i got starlight as my review unit which seemed like a weird some kind of weird backstory where
02:00:58 ◼ ► i i'm not picky with review units i i sometimes would rather be surprised and and i also with
02:01:05 ◼ ► review units like to get colors that i know i don't want myself to buy but they were like what color
02:01:10 ◼ ► would you like and i said well as always you know whatever you want to send me you can send me but
02:01:15 ◼ ► if you want my order i would pick midnight then starlight then silver then space gray space gray
02:01:23 ◼ ► last because i've i've been buying space gray macbooks for a year ever since they've had them
02:01:28 ◼ ► now so what do i need to see that for and then they said okay and i was supposed to get midnight
02:01:32 ◼ ► and then like a day before it was supposed to ship they're like ah you know what we can't send
02:01:36 ◼ ► midnight is that okay and i'm like yeah yeah and they're like we'll send you starlight i'm like
02:01:40 ◼ ► okay that's cool so i got starlight so i i don't know maybe they had like some kind of fewer
02:01:50 ◼ ► ijustine and mkbhd yeah video people yeah where it matters a lot more color they have i would do
02:01:56 ◼ ► the same thing i didn't yeah the only photo i've published in my review was the one showing how
02:02:02 ◼ ► with the lids closed side by side with the 14-inch macbook pro that the entire new macbook air is the
02:02:10 ◼ ► the same height as the just the the bottom part of the macbook pro like if you just snap the lid off
02:02:15 ◼ ► the 14-inch macbook pro now they're the same thickness that's one photo obviously i i just
02:02:21 ◼ ► seen an mkbhd combined ran up like 20 million views or more of their reviews with super
02:02:28 ◼ ► high quality professional video so yeah send them the the midnight my take on starlight using it is
02:02:34 ◼ ► i kept forgetting it's so to me i kept forgetting it was starlight i i kept thinking as i was using
02:02:40 ◼ ► it with no other devices side by side i kept thinking it it was sort of like ambient warm
02:02:46 ◼ ► color temperature like yeah oh the sun went down now i'm looking at incandescent light in my house
02:02:53 ◼ ► oh yeah no no this is starlight this is actually gold the problem with starlight is that it is
02:03:00 ◼ ► it is kind of a slightly white balanced to warm version of silver and the problem is then it won't
02:03:07 ◼ ► match anything else on your desk that's silver it won't it definitely won't because but it's close
02:03:13 ◼ ► so it doesn't look like a choice it looks like a mismatch it looks like like a mistake so like you
02:03:18 ◼ ► know i have other stuff you know i have the protos play xdr it's it's foot of its stand is silver
02:03:23 ◼ ► i have next to it a headphone amp it's silver like if you have any other apple products in your life
02:03:28 ◼ ► chances are they're silver and my keyboard is black and it's like if you have any other silver
02:03:33 ◼ ► aluminum any other any other aluminum that is not colored in some way so it's a silver it will not
02:03:39 ◼ ► match the starlight and that's very frustrating because it's like it's close so it just looks like
02:03:44 ◼ ► a mistake whereas if it's a color like like more colorful color and more saturated blue red or
02:03:50 ◼ ► whatever like that would look like an intentional difference whereas starlight looks like just oh i
02:03:56 ◼ ► forgot to white balance this one thing yeah and it's not like apple hasn't done bolder colors
02:04:02 ◼ ► before i would say that the older gold ones that they called gold definitely were more gold but
02:04:07 ◼ ► they were also because they were called gold and looked gold were more striking and the rose gold
02:04:12 ◼ ► ones particularly so i would say the closest they've ever gotten to a fun aluminum macbook
02:04:18 ◼ ► color would be the rose gold not yeah not for me i i wouldn't buy rose gold but it was a very
02:04:25 ◼ ► striking color and people i know who bought them loved it and way more fun than any of the colors
02:04:31 ◼ ► they're offering now i mean one thing i think you'd probably agree with me every programmer
02:04:35 ◼ ► i've ever known sort of gets annoyed when they get bug reports that include the solution right or
02:04:43 ◼ ► why don't you just yeah why don't you just say i think it would be easy to blank oh boy that's
02:04:50 ◼ ► most of the programmers a lot of my good friends and your friends too are programmers and it's
02:04:56 ◼ ► i'm a nerd i have a computer science degree i invented markdown a long time ago and wrote
02:05:01 ◼ ► wrote the reference implementation i understand programming can't call myself a programmer now
02:05:07 ◼ ► other than like as a hobbyist but i get it but every programmer i know and in addition to me
02:05:13 ◼ ► liking them being logical people they're also good nat they just tend to be in my experience
02:05:18 ◼ ► good-natured people they're because it it's just the way their brains work it it matches with me
02:05:24 ◼ ► but if you want to set them off tell them something is going to be easy when you don't have
02:05:31 ◼ ► the source code right i think it would be easy if you just add blank right oh boy you could oh you
02:05:38 ◼ ► could really set off an even-keeled pro i bet you could even piss off underscore if you told him
02:05:43 ◼ ► something was easy you maybe well not him maybe he's a rock but no you if i had if i had to try
02:05:50 ◼ ► to piss off david underscore smith by somehow that would be my try i would try to tell him
02:05:56 ◼ ► that something was easy i it probably would fail you're right but it's the best guess i have but
02:06:01 ◼ ► in that vein rather than tell apple what color they should make laptops like they should make
02:06:07 ◼ ► a product red bright red macbook air where they should make the the blue from the the the ipad air
02:06:15 ◼ ► i don't even if i don't even go there i would just say if i had to you want to take my face i'll just
02:06:21 ◼ ► describe my problem or the problem i perceive you figure it out i think the problem is there should
02:06:27 ◼ ► be fun colors yes and you figure out what colors would be fun that would work on a laptop and work
02:06:36 ◼ ► with a black keyboard and a black notch and therefore a black bezel you figure it out but
02:06:41 ◼ ► i think they should be fun none of these colors are fun yeah and if you look like if you look at
02:06:46 ◼ ► again the ipad air is a great counter example like the ipad air has the same materials the same black
02:06:53 ◼ ► bezel like you could see how you get a rough idea of how things would look if you look at the ipad
02:06:58 ◼ ► air that's the closest we have and the ipad air colors are just barely fun like in absolute terms
02:07:04 ◼ ► the ipad air colors are like we had boring silver and somebody spilled a bit of fun into the mix
02:07:10 ◼ ► but it was more of an accident like that's the ipad air colors and they look pretty great even
02:07:15 ◼ ► considering that the extremely restrained amount of fun that apple barely showed here the the
02:07:21 ◼ ► macbook air is bought by so many different types of people and i think they would really appreciate
02:07:28 ◼ ► a fun option and i think like in the same way like when the when the new imac 24 inch came out
02:07:34 ◼ ► with all of its fun colors that computer was probably before that was probably the most
02:07:40 ◼ ► boring computer in apple's lineup who ever talked about the small screened imac before that no one
02:07:47 ◼ ► ever like maybe in the 90s when it first came out when it was the only one ever since there's been
02:07:51 ◼ ► like two sizes of imac who ever talked about the low end mid-sized or small one no one it was the
02:07:57 ◼ ► most boring product in the lineup who buys small desktops not that many people anymore who buys
02:08:03 ◼ ► desktops not that many people anymore but they came out the door with this nice new redesign that
02:08:09 ◼ ► had radical new color options and everyone was talking about it and it became the cool thing and
02:08:15 ◼ ► everyone was saying hey i wonder if i can fit a desktop into my life again because this is just
02:08:19 ◼ ► so cool i want to buy one because it looks so cool like i i hope at some point they do that for the
02:08:25 ◼ ► laptop line because even though the laptop line doesn't need the help in sales it's obvious it's
02:08:29 ◼ ► going to sell it crazy even if it looks even if it continues to look very very boring but i think
02:08:34 ◼ ► people want that fun and so maybe that's maybe that's something they do to help drive sales of
02:08:39 ◼ ► the smaller one if they ever make it or the bigger one if they ever make it who knows but i think i
02:08:44 ◼ ► really hope they do this at some point and again maybe maybe it's a covid thing maybe this is a
02:08:50 ◼ ► next year's update kind of thing as you've been speculating i think that's those are all great
02:08:53 ◼ ► theories i just hope they do it because we've had silver and gray and black computers for a long
02:09:02 ◼ ► time now and we don't need more of those as the only options it's great to have those for all the
02:09:07 ◼ ► people who who want a neutral boring or dark looking computer like we it's good to have those
02:09:14 ◼ ► options a lot of people want that but that's not everybody and apple is the only company that would
02:09:19 ◼ ► that would do a good job of colorful options and i really hope that they sometimes do i wonder if
02:09:26 ◼ ► it's a covid type thing i i spitballed in my review that maybe it's just i do expect i expect
02:09:31 ◼ ► this form factor i mean maybe not the exact dimensions but the basic idea of how it looks
02:09:37 ◼ ► to be the i would expect at least 10 years i mean that's how long i think this will be what the
02:09:42 ◼ ► macbook air looks like because that's how long that the the wedge was and that's a long time and
02:09:47 ◼ ► when you're thinking we don't think about we're all thinking like this right now it's brand new
02:09:51 ◼ ► i just had i've only had it for like two weeks or you've only had it for like 48 hours and it's new
02:09:56 ◼ ► and exciting and oh i wish i had other colors whereas the people at apple who are planning this
02:10:01 ◼ ► out know they may not think for sure this will be the same in eight years but they might think that's
02:10:06 ◼ ► probably going to be and they're all definitely already thinking one two maybe even three years
02:10:11 ◼ ► ahead and so maybe all the people at apple who know such things or if they're listening they're
02:10:17 ◼ ► like oh my god if you only knew the fun colors we have coming it's sort of like the way the m1
02:10:22 ◼ ► rolled out in the most boring form factors possible machines that look exactly like the intel ones now
02:10:28 ◼ ► they've got the new form factor which in it of itself is exciting so why burn up exciting colors
02:10:34 ◼ ► and then next year we start seeing exciting colors maybe i hope i don't know maybe i'm just talking
02:10:40 ◼ ► myself into believing that but i also do wonder if there's a covid supply chain thing to it because
02:10:47 ◼ ► in some sense it doesn't make any sense that they have more colors of the 24-inch imac than they do
02:10:54 ◼ ► the macbook air when we know the macbook air is by far and away the most popular mac they make
02:10:59 ◼ ► it it seems like if any of them was going to get the most color options it would be the macbook air
02:11:05 ◼ ► whatever those colors are so i don't know i wonder if too like lending credence to supply chain
02:11:11 ◼ ► theory this macbook air was originally a rumor to come out this past spring and instead it came out
02:11:17 ◼ ► in mid-july yep and and also we we know that this is a very important product for back to school
02:11:24 ◼ ► yeah and tons of people buy these to send their kids off to college yep i wonder if like maybe
02:11:31 ◼ ► part of the way maybe supply chain stuff or other delays happened that made it very challenging to
02:11:36 ◼ ► get this product out on time and that one of the ways they could get it out on time was just
02:11:40 ◼ ► to make the colors very boring i think it's it's almost uncomfortably late for back to school and
02:11:46 ◼ ► i didn't understand this until i was a parent because if you're not you might think well why
02:11:51 ◼ ► in the world would early july be late for back to school but john syracuse's son just like mine
02:11:57 ◼ ► heading off to college in the fall his son was due for a new one so he john syracuse was waiting
02:12:03 ◼ ► for them to go on sale and as soon as they went on sale bought right it's it is time now's the time
02:12:08 ◼ ► for kids who are going to college to get their it was june was the time for them to get them right
02:12:14 ◼ ► and so july is actually late my son jonas doesn't need a new macbook he got a macbook pro a year ago
02:12:22 ◼ ► the m1 13 inch so he it doesn't need one but all of it i have never been more popular amongst my
02:12:29 ◼ ► son's friends for what i do then this summer on the hey my friends some somebody else is wondering
02:12:35 ◼ ► wondering what whether they should wait for the macbook air because they need a machine for a new
02:12:40 ◼ ► they're getting a new laptop for college and i'm like yes i don't have it yet but this is me weeks
02:12:44 ◼ ► ago i don't have it yet i can't vouch for it but i would say yes wait and i will let you know as
02:12:49 ◼ ► soon as i have it i'll give it the thumbs up but his friends are wait we're waiting for the macbook
02:12:55 ◼ ► air to come out and if it had been out earlier they would have bought it earlier yeah yeah so
02:13:01 ◼ ► hopefully hopefully this is one of the things like when you when you look back into past years with
02:13:06 ◼ ► the knowledge of future products you can kind of figure out like okay well this is why this happened
02:13:10 ◼ ► or oh this this was clearly waiting for this so hopefully in whatever whenever the next version
02:13:15 ◼ ► of the mapbook air is updated maybe if there's an m3 version in a year and a half or something
02:13:20 ◼ ► hopefully that we it'll become more obvious what the what the strategy here is with the colors and
02:13:25 ◼ ► and i and i hope there's more of them and they aren't just different shades of gray and a very
02:13:32 ◼ ► very very dark blue so it's almost black i just changed the color temperature on silver and now
02:13:37 ◼ ► it's now it's yeah right now it's champagne or whatever they're going to call the next version
02:13:42 ◼ ► of starlight a special bonus extra sponsor i think they're new i should check my notes i think they're
02:13:48 ◼ ► a new sponsor if if they're not i apologize to them it's a company called squarespace squarespace
02:14:05 ◼ ► talk show that's the code they have and you can you have templates to choose from you create your
02:14:13 ◼ ► own website they have amazing no you can't believe how many templates they have you pick a template
02:14:18 ◼ ► you can tweak the template move things around elements you add the features you want you want
02:14:23 ◼ ► a store do you want to blog do you want to host a podcast on your site which features you want you
02:14:28 ◼ ► add them you tweak them you get 30 days free just to try it out and it's all the features and they
02:14:33 ◼ ► have great tech support and then when you're ready to go you just use that same url squarespace.com
02:14:40 ◼ ► slash talk show you get a free trial 30 days and that offer code talk show saves you 10 off your
02:14:48 ◼ ► first purchase i mean you name it they've got you can't believe the stuff they've got email
02:14:52 ◼ ► campaigns you can you can use squarespace to send your email campaigns collect a list of subscribers
02:14:58 ◼ ► send them email newsletters analytics built in really great analytics with instead of looking
02:15:04 ◼ ► at an airplane cockpit it is like oh i understand what this means here's how much traffic i got
02:15:08 ◼ ► here's where it came from here's the parts of my site people are looking at here's the parts that
02:15:12 ◼ ► are not all of it is great go to squarespace.com slash talk show get that free trial remember that
02:15:18 ◼ ► code when you sign up save 10 percent my thanks to squarespace hopefully they'll come back yeah
02:15:25 ◼ ► maybe maybe they might sponsor more podcasts in the future do you like doing this do you like not
02:15:28 ◼ ► doing the sponsor reads oh it's so great i was i was telling my wife earlier like like i have
02:15:33 ◼ ► i have a podcast to do tonight but i don't have to do any prep for it and i don't have to do any
02:15:39 ◼ ► editing for it so it's just the fun part that's great i don't mind i don't mind but it is a
02:15:45 ◼ ► pleasure when i do somebody else's podcast it's like hey that is a lot easier yeah right before
02:15:49 ◼ ► we leave the macbook air there's the mini scandal over the read write performance of the ssd in the
02:15:57 ◼ ► low end configuration the long story short if you get the cheapest macbook air it has 256 gigabytes
02:16:05 ◼ ► of storage and the way they do the storage and all these is with 256 gigabyte nand storage units so
02:16:13 ◼ ► the 256 total model only has one actual ssd chip all the other ones like if you get a 512 it has
02:16:23 ◼ ► two 256 ssd chips and therefore can read and write to them in parallel and you get higher performance
02:16:31 ◼ ► because there's two chips and i guess with the m1 macbook air even the low end configuration
02:16:38 ◼ ► at 256 was actually two 128 gigabyte chips so all of them worked in parallel and there was
02:16:46 ◼ ► apparently no read write hit with the m1 macbook air to me this is like oh that sounds interesting
02:16:54 ◼ ► is this really a thing and then i actually looked at the numbers i don't have a 256 gigabyte model
02:17:00 ◼ ► my review unit is one terabyte but i've read a bunch about this i honestly i think that this is
02:17:07 ◼ ► way overblown and i think that the claims that it's like a 50 reduction in read speeds i that's
02:17:15 ◼ ► nonsense i don't think that adds up in the real world i think it's one benchmark app the black
02:17:22 ◼ ► magic whatever whatever suggests it's 50 but i everything i've seen people try to do with them
02:17:29 ◼ ► in the real world like exporting video and stuff there's like 20 slower or something like that
02:17:35 ◼ ► which makes sense and it's still faster i think than the m1 or um not in all ways but i mean the
02:17:43 ◼ ► thing is like it's this is if you're looking at like this the speed of the ssd relative to total
02:17:48 ◼ ► system performance the differences we're talking about here are going to be pretty much unnoticeable
02:17:55 ◼ ► in almost every way almost all the time this is a very unimportant metric relative to the two
02:18:02 ◼ ► numbers that we're talking about here like whether you're comparing to the m1 where like it's a little
02:18:05 ◼ ► bit slower in certain ways a little bit faster in other ways or whether you're comparing the the
02:18:10 ◼ ► one chip 256 gig model to the two chip all other storage models yeah it is going to be slower on
02:18:16 ◼ ► certain benchmarks if you if you're actually going to notice that is that's a different question and
02:18:22 ◼ ► if you think you even might notice that you probably aren't getting the 256 gig gigabyte
02:18:28 ◼ ► gigabyte model in the first place because that is not a lot of space it is and anybody who is at all
02:18:34 ◼ ► concerned about the resource levels of these computers don't get 256 it is too small get at
02:18:41 ◼ ► least 512 yeah like and and anybody who is doing anything intensive that anything like a video
02:18:48 ◼ ► processing kind of workflow probably can't fit in 256 anyway so i think this is whenever apple
02:18:54 ◼ ► does anything there is a large industry of which we are both apart that benefits from the attention
02:19:01 ◼ ► that anybody can get if we can drum up some kind of problem with it if we can say oh there's a
02:19:05 ◼ ► scandal the keyboards break that's one thing if we remember the iphone's bending yeah god that was
02:19:11 ◼ ► so stupid but and almost all these scandals are rooted in something that is true but not important
02:19:18 ◼ ► like yes the iphone i believe it was the iphone 6 yeah the iphone 6 and 6 plus they actually could
02:19:24 ◼ ► bend more easily you might guess it wasn't great it was not good but but it also didn't matter for
02:19:30 ◼ ► almost any right and that's how this is this is a real thing the ssd is slower in certain benchmarks
02:19:36 ◼ ► in certain configurations than it was before whether anyone's going to actually ever notice
02:19:41 ◼ ► that and whether it matters is a very different question and the answer is pretty much no and and
02:19:47 ◼ ► again i urge you do not get 256 if you care like if you can at all get more get more if you if you
02:19:56 ◼ ► cannot in any way afford to upgrade to the 512 and the m2 map book air don't get the m2 map book air
02:20:02 ◼ ► get the m1 model and upgrade it to 512 for overall like the same or less because that that is how
02:20:08 ◼ ► much that matters you don't want 256 you want 512 so yeah it sucks they couldn't make this the same
02:20:14 ◼ ► across all the storage configurations but overall this doesn't really matter this is this is not a
02:20:18 ◼ ► thing yeah and i would say this even as me personally being a big fan of bumping up the ram
02:20:24 ◼ ► if you can if you can only bump one thing up you're way better off bumping the storage to 512
02:20:30 ◼ ► staying with the base eight gigabytes of ram and then with the 512 and this the full speed ssd and
02:20:37 ◼ ► the way the all of apple's ssd's including the 256 one are very fast high quality storage when when
02:20:43 ◼ ► your max swaps it'll it'll be fine and you won't notice i've tested the eight gigabyte one at some
02:20:50 ◼ ► point with one of the m1 ones and it's like i can't believe i'm going to use eight gigabytes
02:20:54 ◼ ► i have 100 safari tabs nope it was fine because the ssd is so fast but you want that ssd to be
02:21:00 ◼ ► fast and you want room for it to swap so yes if you can only upgrade one thing upgrade the storage
02:21:05 ◼ ► to fuck to 512 yeah like the swap swap profiling and everything like you don't realize how fast
02:21:11 ◼ ► the m1 is at things and it's not like swapping to hard drives back in the day like when when the m1s
02:21:16 ◼ ► first came out i i switched my desktop from an imac pro with 64 gigs of ram to a macbook air m1
02:21:24 ◼ ► with 16 gigs of ram and i used that like that for most of a year and i i noticed i like i wanted
02:21:32 ◼ ► more ram and i because i did notice like the amount i mean i'm driving yeah i was driving an xdr
02:21:38 ◼ ► off of this macbook air running xcode and photoshop and logic and all these all these big apps and i'm
02:21:44 ◼ ► i am not a good person at like i'm gonna do one thing in full screen mode and close all my other
02:21:50 ◼ ► apps and keep a minimal desktop nope that is not me at all i always have tons of crap running
02:21:56 ◼ ► tons of huge apps taking up tons of memory that i don't close i just hide them and move move on to
02:22:00 ◼ ► something else and i'll switch back in a few minutes so i have tons of stuff going on i use
02:22:04 ◼ ► a bunch of ram and so for a while i had the 16 gig which was really not enough for what i was doing
02:22:09 ◼ ► and i didn't really feel as much as i thought i would like when i got when i had the opportunity
02:22:15 ◼ ► to buy more when the m1 pro and max ones came out i did i'm back up to 64 now because i could
02:22:21 ◼ ► say these same here because i'm an idiot i but i love having too much ram 64 gigabytes of ram is
02:22:27 ◼ ► too much for me it's more than i need but that's what i want that's yeah i want to click right now
02:22:32 ◼ ► i want a car about 28. i want a car that can go way faster than i could possibly keep on the road
02:22:37 ◼ ► yeah exactly yeah like right now my desktop i'm using 28 gigs of ram i don't have xcode or logic
02:22:44 ◼ ► open this is just like my everything else crap stuff i recently did have all that stuff open i
02:22:48 ◼ ► have all these web browser tabs i have different apps to help me out doing different things so
02:22:52 ◼ ► i got a lot of stuff going on 28 gigs when i'm actually doing programming work it probably goes
02:22:56 ◼ ► up a little bit more than that but either way like 16 i was swapping with 16 and i i didn't notice it
02:23:04 ◼ ► a lot of the time i did notice it a little bit but it wasn't as much as i would have guessed based on
02:23:10 ◼ ► previous systems that didn't have enough ram like back in the intel days and especially if you go
02:23:15 ◼ ► back to the hard drive days that's a very different ballgame then obviously yeah that's like two
02:23:18 ◼ ► ballparks over oh at least that's a planet over ssd's now are so fast and the m1 and m2 subsystems
02:23:25 ◼ ► and and bandwidth in all the different parts of the chip and the io and everything it's just so
02:23:29 ◼ ► fast now that when you do have to swap it's not ideal obviously but you notice it a lot less than
02:23:36 ◼ ► you used to so yeah going back to the original point of this question i would say yeah if you
02:23:40 ◼ ► have to upgrade one thing upgrade the ssd before you upgrade the memory all right last topic johnny
02:23:46 ◼ ► i've so it's in the news it's not like out of the blue but it one of the bits of news from earlier
02:23:51 ◼ ► this month was a trick mickle scoop for the new york times which is fascinating to me because i
02:23:57 ◼ ► don't think anybody's either apple or johnny i've and love from are really pleased with his recent
02:24:03 ◼ ► book but he got the scoop that the johnny i've stepped down as chief design officer 2019 and is
02:24:10 ◼ ► immediately upon that announcement was also announced that he's forming a new design company
02:24:15 ◼ ► called love from and that love from's first customer would be apple and that apple looked
02:24:20 ◼ ► forward to two years of collaboration continuing collaboration with johnny i've now at love from
02:24:26 ◼ ► and now we're three years later and according to trip mickle and seems true because that was like
02:24:33 ◼ ► two weeks ago or a week and a half ago and we've heard nothing since to correct it so i i'm going
02:24:39 ◼ ► to say this is now considered factual even though to my knowledge neither apple nor love from
02:24:45 ◼ ► has confirmed it on the record that's that's over or is about to be over that's the story the
02:24:51 ◼ ► question is what does it mean right and i you you have strong opinions strong opinions on late era
02:24:58 ◼ ► johnny i've's influence on apple's products and i think i i don't think i i think i largely agree
02:25:05 ◼ ► with you but subtly disagree with you and that's fair i mean look i i was very happy to see him go
02:25:12 ◼ ► i i think he had an amazing run and did some amazing work there and i also think towards the
02:25:18 ◼ ► end it he he clearly both seemed burnt out and less interested in continuing there and also i
02:25:26 ◼ ► think in in the post steve era i think he lost an important editor and collaborator and and the work
02:25:32 ◼ ► showed that i think he he gained way more power in steve's absence than i think was good for him or
02:25:41 ◼ ► the products and it's hard not to compare it to leon and mccartney and when the beatles broke up
02:25:47 ◼ ► leon and mccartney i think we're still making some beatles-esque music i think imagine from john
02:25:56 ◼ ► leon you could easily no no pun intended imagine as a beatles song i think the band on the run from
02:26:03 ◼ ► paul mccartney at wings clearly to me sounds like a beatles song perhaps because paul sort of put
02:26:09 ◼ ► together the last album of the beatles and it was sort of going in that direction and then the longer
02:26:15 ◼ ► it went before john leon's unfortunate assassination the the less beatles like their music sounded and
02:26:22 ◼ ► i think there's some truth to that where like in the first five years after steve jobs died
02:26:27 ◼ ► johnny ives work still seemed more infused with the collaborative spirit of steve jobs and then
02:26:33 ◼ ► maybe in the second five years was more all johnny and was less for it you can't blame them for that
02:26:40 ◼ ► right i mean it's that that that ten years after steve jobs was dead that the designs were more
02:26:47 ◼ ► johnny than steve well of course they were he's been dead for 10 years right i mean that's that's
02:26:52 ◼ ► not a criticism but i do think i think you speak for a lot of people and this is why i don't want
02:26:58 ◼ ► to pick on you but i think it's perfect time for me to get this off my chest that i think i can take
02:27:04 ◼ ► it i think much of what you blame on johnny i've was not johnny ives fault i i think a lot of people
02:27:09 ◼ ► think the butterfly keyboard is fucking johnny i've and i don't think that's the case i think
02:27:15 ◼ ► clearly he has a taste for thinness that possibly exceeds where the taste for thinness in devices
02:27:24 ◼ ► the optimal level and clearly the overriding idea behind the butterfly keyboards was to make
02:27:30 ◼ ► the whole keyboard mechanism thinner so that the overall laptop could be thinner we talked about
02:27:35 ◼ ► the 12-inch macbook air or macbook no adjective which was the first device to have the butterfly
02:27:41 ◼ ► because perhaps it couldn't have been that thin without it but i think that the the sad sort of
02:27:49 ◼ ► head scratching saga of the butterfly keyboard like it isn't that they shipped it in the first
02:27:54 ◼ ► place or that it had problems if you never have any problems you're not trying hard enough right
02:28:02 ◼ ► like if you're really pushing the edges of what you can do whether it's keyboards or materials
02:28:06 ◼ ► or colors or anything and you never ever screw up maybe you're not pressing the testing the limits
02:28:14 ◼ ► of what you can do the the real head scratcher with the keyboards was why the fuck did it take so
02:28:21 ◼ ► long to to fix it right yeah and again i i say this with sympathy to anybody who bought one early
02:28:28 ◼ ► on even if they had said okay this isn't going to work let's get rid of it and come to the solution
02:28:33 ◼ ► they eventually did come to which is we're going to get rid of these butterfly mechanisms and invent
02:28:37 ◼ ► a new scissor mechanism that will that is thinner and and will feel the feel i think was always
02:28:45 ◼ ► subjective some people love the feel of the butterfly keyboards i think our friend mutual
02:28:49 ◼ ► friend casey lists like typing on the butterfly keyboards that's that's subjective and i could see
02:28:55 ◼ ► that my the guy i talked to at drexel years ago loved typing on his 12-inch macbook macbook and
02:29:01 ◼ ► and he typed thousands of words of emails every day he said and he it's the best keyboard he ever
02:29:06 ◼ ► used his fingers never felt better at the end of the day that's subjective the reliability is
02:29:12 ◼ ► objective and was absolutely ridiculous and horrible right like i as i wrote at times over
02:29:18 ◼ ► the saga i don't recall all the years i've ever been using computers i don't remember ever typing
02:29:23 ◼ ► the e key and not having an e appear on screen and whereas people with these butterfly keyboards
02:29:28 ◼ ► they type an e and sometimes they'd get no e or sometimes they'd get four e's from one press on
02:29:34 ◼ ► the e and sometimes they'd and if you wanted to repair it it was going to be like 800 or sometimes
02:29:39 ◼ ► you type a space and then the space key never came back up that's it it just was down and now it's
02:29:45 ◼ ► down and now you have to take it in and it's 800 fix or whatever why did it take so long i don't
02:29:51 ◼ ► think that was johnny i and this is me being me and having sources maybe the problem wasn't the
02:29:57 ◼ ► problem definitely was not johnny i've insisting no we're going to keep this keyboard because we
02:30:02 ◼ ► want these things to be thinner and i like the butterfly keyboard and fuck you we're going to
02:30:07 ◼ ► keep it that's definitely not what happened what happened to my understanding is that the engineers
02:30:12 ◼ ► in charge of the keyboard kept saying okay we can fix this and and they did they'd announced that
02:30:18 ◼ ► we've got now we have a membrane and now we've got this and they had like three three stabs at
02:30:24 ◼ ► the butterfly keyboard but that the engineers behind it really believed it that this time
02:30:30 ◼ ► we've got it this time we've got it we've got it we can fix it and somewhere up the chain somebody
02:30:36 ◼ ► had to make a decision do we believe these guys and let them take another crack at it or do we say
02:30:41 ◼ ► screw this we have to invent something all new it took too long to get to the point where they
02:30:47 ◼ ► said screw this we're going to do something all new if there's a role johnny i've had in that it's
02:30:52 ◼ ► that he was because he was checked out i don't think he was involved right like i i know for
02:30:57 ◼ ► a fact he was not insisting we keep the butterfly keyboard but if steve jobs were still around
02:31:03 ◼ ► would we would it have taken that long to say screw this look probably would have fired the
02:31:08 ◼ ► whole team but we're going to do something all new i'm sick of this right that's that's the part
02:31:14 ◼ ► of steve jobs that johnny i've i think never really took in because i don't think johnny
02:31:17 ◼ ► i've really loves using max the way steve jobs actually loved to use his max right yeah frankly
02:31:25 ◼ ► i can't see steve ever shipping the butterfly keyboard in the first place because it was so
02:31:28 ◼ ► compromised in metrics steve cared a lot about keyboards like that was one of the one of his
02:31:34 ◼ ► key innovations was when they started making the smaller laptops like when they made the first 12
02:31:38 ◼ ► inch power book like he he insisted no this is going to have a full-size keyboard and because
02:31:49 ◼ ► and he and the pc industry was making all those netbooks remember all that and and and there was
02:31:54 ◼ ► a lot of pressure on apple when you're going to make a netbook you're going to lose to netbooks
02:31:58 ◼ ► and they were insistent like no that's actually not a thing we want to do because it's not a good
02:32:02 ◼ ► experience and part and one of the biggest parts of the of why it wasn't a good experience was
02:32:06 ◼ ► netbooks had these really cramped tiny little keyboards and steve i i think would not have
02:32:11 ◼ ► shipped a keyboard that had that many compromises and certainly he if he did ship it in the 12 inch
02:32:19 ◼ ► macbook where it seemed more necessary i don't think he would have also then moved it to all of
02:32:25 ◼ ► the other laptops which is what happened with what happened i i like i told you earlier when as part
02:32:29 ◼ ► of my research doing my macbook air review last week i looked up the 11 inch macbook air just to
02:32:35 ◼ ► get the size and weight and do some comparisons and i saw that i read reread the press release
02:32:40 ◼ ► from the first one and it wasn't a steve jobs quote it was a phil shiller quote you know there's
02:32:45 ◼ ► like a formula to apple's pr where it's like first paragraph tells you here's the new thing
02:32:49 ◼ ► here's the highlights of it and then the second paragraph is a quote from the most relevant apple
02:32:57 ◼ ► executive right like if it's a new thing about i work or something like that it's going to be
02:33:01 ◼ ► susan prescott and if it's something with apple music or something like that it might be eddie q
02:33:08 ◼ ► and if it was a product it's it was going to be phil shiller some if it wasn't going to be
02:33:12 ◼ ► steve jobs and it's a phil shiller quote about the macbook 11 inch macbook air and why it's awesome
02:33:17 ◼ ► and like one of the first things in this quote is that it has a full-size keyboard but like we're
02:33:22 ◼ ► only going to have this quote from phil shiller saying this that and the other and one of this
02:33:27 ◼ ► that and the other about why it's so awesome was that it has a full-size keyboard so i think you're
02:33:31 ◼ ► exactly right what else do you not like about late era johnny i've i mean it's hard to know how much
02:33:38 ◼ ► this was him versus other people who are possibly under him but i think that the two things i can
02:33:43 ◼ ► really point to are the the the over minimalism of the hardware so things like removing unnecessary
02:33:52 ◼ ► ports or lesser used ports that that whole that that was that was part of a whole industry-wide
02:33:57 ◼ ► trend towards overly obsessing over minimalism everywhere but it was certainly led by apple
02:34:03 ◼ ► and i think johnny i've where it less became more for everyone and everyone started deleting
02:34:09 ◼ ► features and deleting capabilities and conveniently it's cheaper and easier to make stuff with less
02:34:14 ◼ ► functionality and i think that that corrupted a lot of people's thinking processes but it was this
02:34:19 ◼ ► this obsession with give people less and that that played out in a lot of different ways it stripped
02:34:26 ◼ ► away a lot of the personality of the products we we lost a lot of niceties that actually serve
02:34:31 ◼ ► functions like old old macbook pros before this era used to be able to like push a button somewhere
02:34:37 ◼ ► on it to see the battery level as the lights that would light up you would you had magsafe and the
02:34:43 ◼ ► light on the magsafe plug that would tell you whether it was charging or charged you had the
02:34:47 ◼ ► light up apple logo on the back you had the sleep led you had all these little little niceties that
02:34:51 ◼ ► kind of made it a little more whimsical a little more humane and also usually provided important
02:34:58 ◼ ► functionality and the johnny i've ever stripped a whole bunch out of weight now that that i think
02:35:04 ◼ ► showed in many different ways the hardware etc but also it really became a problem and still is a
02:35:11 ◼ ► problem in the software when johnny i've inherited kind of the whole weight of all their design
02:35:17 ◼ ► after steve passed away tim put a lot on johnny as a result of of steve being gone and and including
02:35:26 ◼ ► making johnny in charge of all software design under his purview as well and then so he brings
02:35:32 ◼ ► in alan dai's team and it's a radical departure week at ios 7 and then later on we get big sur on
02:35:39 ◼ ► the mac and and i think the pendulum has swung the other direction now on the hardware side we're now
02:35:44 ◼ ► pro hardware even even consumer level even the new apple care hardware is now getting its ports
02:35:51 ◼ ► back it's getting its functionality back it's having a better balance of form over function
02:35:56 ◼ ► or form versus function rather whereas the johnny i've hardware peak i think was things were out of
02:36:01 ◼ ► balance there the software though hasn't been corrected because johnny left the software
02:36:07 ◼ ► organization that he set up for software design and and ui design is still there and still very
02:36:12 ◼ ► much in power and that's the other side of his leadership where i don't think johnny i've was
02:36:17 ◼ ► qualified to lead software design or to even choose who should lead it he was clearly not
02:36:24 ◼ ► qualified for that it was not his expertise tim shouldn't have put it on him but anyway he he got
02:36:28 ◼ ► that responsibility he he set up that team with alan dai and i think these the software design
02:36:35 ◼ ► still has not corrected its pendulum it is still out of whack it's still very much obsessed with
02:36:44 ◼ ► hiding as much as possible again over obsession with minimalism for its own sake to the point
02:36:53 ◼ ► the place with it's it's worse i think on the mac because on the mac we gave alan dai the tool of
02:37:00 ◼ ► hover states i wish we never gave this to him hover states don't exist on touch screens which
02:37:04 ◼ ► is part of the reason why it's harder to expose what functionality is like on on desktops and
02:37:09 ◼ ► laptops you can like hover the mouse pointer over something and you can have a tool tip pop up or
02:37:13 ◼ ► something you can explain functionality you could have stuff slide in and out you don't really have
02:37:16 ◼ ► as much on touch screen so it's harder to expose that stuff but on the mac it's like this there's
02:37:23 ◼ ► the the the concept of a hover state now on the mac and it seems like the design team the software
02:37:28 ◼ ► design team now uses that as a method by which to hide everything by default and just take more and
02:37:35 ◼ ► more stuff away from the screen and the rationale they that they used to give whenever whenever the
02:37:41 ◼ ► interface would be able to minimize itself or hide in certain modes the rationale is always
02:37:46 ◼ ► we're making space for your content your content can shine we don't want to interfere with your
02:37:50 ◼ ► content and they've gone so far now that the content is starting to auto hide the stuff you
02:37:56 ◼ ► actually need to see is getting swept away and buried in drawers and swept under the rug and
02:38:02 ◼ ► hidden behind hover states and it's it's so far in that direction now that things are getting harder
02:38:08 ◼ ► and worse to use and i hope that correction of the pendulum swinging back the way it has for the
02:38:16 ◼ ► hardware i hope that happens on software i don't know if alan dai personally is responsible for
02:38:24 ◼ ► i assume that if he is good enough to lead the organization of software design at apple
02:38:29 ◼ ► i assume he is capable of editing his style and correcting it and i i hope that he does and if he
02:38:37 ◼ ► can't or won't do that i hope they find another way to get it in there because that the software
02:38:42 ◼ ► is it's still way too far in that direction and the current you know what we have now with ios 16
02:38:50 ◼ ► and mac os ventura it's not correcting any of those problems in fact ios 16 hides even more
02:38:56 ◼ ► stuff under hover states and things like stuff like you know how like what's the how much time
02:39:02 ◼ ► is left in this podcast i'm listening to you look at control center it's like where where is this
02:39:05 ◼ ► countdown like things just everything just keeps getting hidden and buried and stuck under hover
02:39:09 ◼ ► states on the mac and it's just oh my god just please like i i don't need everything about my
02:39:15 ◼ ► computer to be swept away the content and the stuff i'm working with is why i'm using the
02:39:20 ◼ ► computer i want to see these things i don't need things to be overly minimal it like johnny i've
02:39:26 ◼ ► designed computer hardware as if it was somebody designing computers who hated computers it seems
02:39:32 ◼ ► like the current software design team designs computers for people who hate computers like
02:39:36 ◼ ► it seems like they they don't understand why we're using these things i that was a fantastic rant
02:39:43 ◼ ► number one and thoughtful and as kind as you could be number one for people who do not remember you
02:39:49 ◼ ► mentioned this and it is one of the coolest things i don't know how far back i think you have to go
02:39:54 ◼ ► back to a power book i'm almost certain but i do think it was true in the it was definitely true
02:40:00 ◼ ► in the aluminum era but the power button that you could press on the side of a power button there
02:40:06 ◼ ► was a little subtle button it was also aluminum just a little round circle yeah well it started
02:40:11 ◼ ► out it was on the battery when the battery was removable it was on the battery on the bottom
02:40:15 ◼ ► right and then when they switched to unibody and the batteries were all built in they moved the
02:40:18 ◼ ► button over the side but it for those of you who aren't old enough or long enough mac users to
02:40:23 ◼ ► remember this it was awesome just a little subtle button almost invisible but when you press the
02:40:29 ◼ ► button then there were like four green leds and amazingly when when i you didn't see the leds
02:40:39 ◼ ► when you weren't using it they were like somehow painted over like the aluminum it had like these
02:40:45 ◼ ► micro right yeah that's in it so yeah you could see it when they were on you'd see the light
02:40:49 ◼ ► shining through but when they were off it looked like nothing was there nothing was there so just
02:40:54 ◼ ► a little button but that meant like if your mac but you hadn't you hadn't opened your power book
02:41:01 ◼ ► in a while days something maybe you don't remember your but your you just take it out it's in your in
02:41:07 ◼ ► your your backpack you could just yeah that's what that's what it was when it's in a bag you could
02:41:12 ◼ ► just press the button yeah and say oh i've it's it's all four leds light up i don't even need to
02:41:17 ◼ ► charge like let's say you're at the airport and you've got 40 minutes to go for your flight and
02:41:21 ◼ ► you're like hey should i just charge my my my laptop while i have a last chance and you could
02:41:27 ◼ ► check the charge hit the button without opening it and at the time opening it and waking it took
02:41:34 ◼ ► longer than it does today right it was sort of a uh did i type a password wait wait wait okay now
02:41:41 ◼ ► it'll take my password type the password hit return wait wait wait there it is all right
02:41:46 ◼ ► batteries at 82 percent i'm fine you just hit the button saw the lights and you knew oh shit i
02:41:52 ◼ ► better charge it only got one light or oh all four lit up and when they weren't on they just
02:41:58 ◼ ► disappeared it was amazing but that's johnny i've right it's john that sort of shit of of
02:42:03 ◼ ► these little invisible micro holes in the aluminum johnny ives team and he loved stuff like that
02:42:11 ◼ ► where did that go i don't know i honestly see it like i said like i have some info from people i've
02:42:18 ◼ ► talked to over the years about the keyboard and i really don't think it's it's right to blame that
02:42:22 ◼ ► on him is the fact that stuff like that went away because johnny i've pushed it away or is it because
02:42:30 ◼ ► he didn't care right either way he was the chief design officer he's johnny fucking i've so it is
02:42:38 ◼ ► the buck stops there right it's it's his responsibility either way but i genuinely don't
02:42:44 ◼ ► know if it was him and his taste driving it away that i don't even want that little fucking button
02:42:51 ◼ ► i want nothing or was it that they got it was like ah but that would be a lot of work now because
02:42:57 ◼ ► they're saying and he's like ah all right whatever i don't know i don't know which way it is but
02:43:08 ◼ ► magsafe going away and coming back half of it the obvious thing is that magsafe is kind of awesome
02:43:13 ◼ ► and it's easy to connect steven akino everybody's favorite writer about accessibility issues is
02:43:20 ◼ ► mentioned over and over and over again what a wonderful accessibility thing it is because you
02:43:25 ◼ ► don't have to it whether you prefer lightning or usb-c or whatever else when you have to put a male
02:43:33 ◼ ► plug into a female port you gotta line it up and it's even if you have no motor problems or vision
02:43:40 ◼ ► problems lining it up it's it's kind of hard magsafe literally connects itself it jumps out
02:43:46 ◼ ► of your fingers yeah and goes in and it's one it's like one of the best examples i can ever think of
02:43:51 ◼ ► the way that accessibility benefits everybody including the people who don't have like a motor
02:43:57 ◼ ► difficulty or a vision difficulty to line up the the usb-c thing but so and of course the the whole
02:44:05 ◼ ► thing that you could kick the cord or whatever and it just pops out rather than taking your mac with
02:44:08 ◼ ► it okay that's great magsafe's good but the other thing is you get another port right so you charge
02:44:13 ◼ ► with magsafe and now you've got two free usb-c ports it doubles the odds that you don't need a
02:44:19 ◼ ► dongle that's great whether johnny i've actually pushed that away or whether he was just like oh
02:44:27 ◼ ► all right whatever and and just let it happen either way it's his responsibility and and the
02:44:32 ◼ ► they were worse for it it magsafe is better so glad it came back the software thing that's that's
02:44:38 ◼ ► where i am in complete agreement with you except for the fact that it was not tim cook pushing it
02:44:44 ◼ ► on johnny i've johnny i've took it that and i can report that as a fact did johnny i've fire scott
02:44:51 ◼ ► forestall i don't know that i can say that i can't don't don't don't listen to this podcast and say
02:44:57 ◼ ► john grueber says on episode 352 or whatever the hell number we're up to that johnny i've had scott
02:45:03 ◼ ► forestall fired but it's what i mean whatever it is like they clearly did not get along together
02:45:09 ◼ ► they did not get along yeah i know for a fact that johnny i've thought and perhaps still thinks that
02:45:15 ◼ ► he could do a better job designing software than scott forestall and greg christie who used to head
02:45:20 ◼ ► up the who did not get forced out or fired but just retired but and there's all sorts of other
02:45:25 ◼ ► names like that don't come to mind but greg christie would be the one that comes to mind greg
02:45:30 ◼ ► christie probably isn't familiar as a name to a lot of people but was absolutely just brilliant
02:45:38 ◼ ► human interface designer of that steve jobs era of design ken kashenda who now at humane but of
02:45:47 ◼ ► most well known wrote the book creative selections was on this show a couple months ago was a great
02:45:53 ◼ ► guest but most well known as the the guy who was the directly responsible individual and engineer
02:45:59 ◼ ► for the iphone keyboard and in his book tells a great story where he was working on the iphone
02:46:05 ◼ ► touchscreen keyboard and was coming to where it ended up but at the time still had like let's say
02:46:13 ◼ ► like the a s and d if it was all the idea was well your thumb is so fat so you could push anywhere in
02:46:20 ◼ ► the area of a s and d and let this autocorrect figure out which one you meant but it was just
02:46:27 ◼ ► one big key on screen a button that's at asd and he was talked himself into knots over what do i do
02:46:34 ◼ ► and greg christie just said to him one day just make them all their own fucking buttons like on
02:46:38 ◼ ► a regular keyboard and greg christie is not a californian he was from new york and i've i've
02:46:44 ◼ ► met him and he definitely does not talk like someone who got california eyes talks like he'd
02:46:50 ◼ ► never left the bronx just said just make them all their own fucking buttons it doesn't matter
02:46:56 ◼ ► if the actual area you're looking reading the touches from is that big just draw them on the
02:47:02 ◼ ► screen as buttons and ken was like oh yeah that's right greg christie had that influence a thousand
02:47:10 ◼ ► different ways on all of apple systems but liked that sort of hey if this is a text field in a
02:47:19 ◼ ► dialogue box it should be distinct from the non-editable text area around it and it should
02:47:26 ◼ ► be very clear what is editable and what is not and if it's a button it should really look like
02:47:31 ◼ ► a button like a really beautiful button let's you think buttons are boring well let's prove them
02:47:36 ◼ ► wrong by making the button look really cool whereas the modern way is ah buttons are boring
02:47:42 ◼ ► so let's just get rid of making things look like buttons even though they act like buttons my least
02:47:46 ◼ ► favorite thing of our or the exemplification of the allen die era of graphic design style ui design
02:47:54 ◼ ► in all of systems is the search field in the toolbar like just mail right i search my mail
02:48:01 ◼ ► all the time there's the idea in an interface of whether a control is enabled or disabled
02:48:06 ◼ ► so like a button that is enabled looks like you can push it and if it's disabled because maybe
02:48:12 ◼ ► whatever the context of the software you're in you can't push the the submit button until you enter
02:48:18 ◼ ► both your name and your email right so you have to enter your name and your email and then there's
02:48:23 ◼ ► a button that says submit and if the email field is blank or doesn't look like a legit email address
02:48:31 ◼ ► this the submit button looks disabled and then you type an actual email address and the button lights
02:48:38 ◼ ► up because it's enabled and then you can tap it or click it whatever right everybody understands
02:48:43 ◼ ► this the text field is the same way can is it is it is it enabled can i click on it and start typing
02:48:50 ◼ ► or is it disabled and i'd it's at this point you can't search well the the search field in all the
02:48:56 ◼ ► toolbars in mac os starting two years ago whenever they redesigned it they look disabled all the time
02:49:04 ◼ ► they're just completely flat the background is exactly the same as the background of the
02:49:09 ◼ ► toolbar itself it's just just a rectangle with a very faint thing that says search and whether
02:49:15 ◼ ► it's clickable so you can type or not well click it and find out why why would you do that i i don't
02:49:22 ◼ ► understand that i i know for a fact johnny i've was not did not like the direction of apple's
02:49:28 ◼ ► software interfaces thought he could do a better job is that why scott forestall was shown the door
02:49:33 ◼ ► i don't think that was the only reason there were personality clashes but why people like
02:49:37 ◼ ► greg christie were the the old hi team was let go and dissolved it was outside johnny i've's
02:49:45 ◼ ► team and the new hi team which is still there under alan dai who was hired by johnny i've is
02:49:51 ◼ ► inside johnny i've's old team and i'm with you i don't like the direction they've gone i don't like
02:50:01 ◼ ► yeah please they actually listen to you on this stuff getting rid of scroll bars on the mac i
02:50:06 ◼ ► don't get it like on the i i get on the i always got right from the get-go i was like oh this is
02:50:10 ◼ ► really clever on this tiny little screen it's only three and a half inches they just don't show the
02:50:21 ◼ ► bar appears temporarily to show you where you are and then it fades away because they just don't
02:50:26 ◼ ► have room why why would they adopt that on the mac because it's like you said they think it's clutter
02:50:32 ◼ ► but it's useful information how long is this document is this document 10 pages long and
02:50:38 ◼ ► i'm looking at one tenth of it because that's what's on screen or is it 1.1 pages long and 90
02:50:45 ◼ ► percent of it fits on screen well when you have scroll bars showing you see how long it is and
02:50:50 ◼ ► where you are all the time and there's plenty of room for it solved problems hover states i agree
02:50:55 ◼ ► with you the the the the proxy icons which i have written about a daring fireball disappearing from
02:51:02 ◼ ► the interface i i don't know the backstory on that of how that disappeared but when they first made
02:51:08 ◼ ► them disappear they would appear on hover but it was even worse than that because you had to wait
02:51:14 ◼ ► like a second it wasn't even like that was the worst so the proxy icon is like when you're in
02:51:20 ◼ ► the finder and you open a folder and you're in a window the folder up in the title bar with the
02:51:25 ◼ ► name of the current folder and it has a little folder icon you can click on it and drag it and
02:51:30 ◼ ► it's a proxy for the folder so if you or if it then you could drag it somewhere else and copy it
02:51:35 ◼ ► or or whatever you wanted to do you could do things with it because it was there they got rid
02:51:41 ◼ ► of the proxy icons and then it didn't even appear instantly when you hovered you had to like wait a
02:51:46 ◼ ► second my imagined again this is my imagination no little birdies but hmm it seems plausible was that
02:51:54 ◼ ► they were like the the the the alan die team was like what are these icons doing appearance it
02:51:59 ◼ ► looks ugly and then people other people were like whoa they're useful here's what you can do with
02:52:04 ◼ ► them you can do this you can do that you can do this there's all sorts of useful things we've
02:52:07 ◼ ► had them since like 1995 or something like that or 90 what's sometime back in the classic era in the
02:52:14 ◼ ► 90s and people are used to them and they've had all these features they're very and then the alan
02:52:19 ◼ ► die team was like well we never do that that's that sounds like nerd shit to get rid of it and
02:52:23 ◼ ► then i sort of my my imagined backstory is that the people who liked them and knew they were useful
02:52:28 ◼ ► were like well maybe if we put them on hover state they won't notice and they'll let us keep them and
02:52:34 ◼ ► then they were like what is this should i move my mouse up there and the folder icon appeared i
02:52:37 ◼ ► thought we got rid of those and they're like i put in like a half second delay and then the alan die
02:52:42 ◼ ► team never noticed and it stayed and then there was there's like a secret default thing you can
02:52:46 ◼ ► type in terminal to make it appear instantly and i don't know yeah and eventually they had an
02:52:52 ◼ ► accessibility pref that always displays them and so accessibility preferences are often where good
02:52:57 ◼ ► designs become possible because it's like this is where this is where the teams that want this
02:53:03 ◼ ► design to be fixed can convince someone to let them put a checkbox for it so that's if we're
02:53:09 ◼ ► writing the the this is the end of the johnny ivira i'm much more effusive about his the entire
02:53:16 ◼ ► run of his hardware and yes there was some hiccups the butterfly keyboards and the disappearing ports
02:53:22 ◼ ► but i also think it's not that those things came back in the last three years because he's gone he
02:53:28 ◼ ► he's he was definitely involved while he was working at love from and i heard from somebody
02:53:33 ◼ ► who knew somebody source of a source who just like months ago had to have a serious design thing with
02:53:40 ◼ ► johnny iv about something i don't know what it is they were working on because my little birdies
02:53:45 ◼ ► always never tell me the actual things are working on but he's been he was involved as of just a few
02:53:50 ◼ ► months ago it's also the case that everybody who's still at the apple design team are all johnny
02:53:55 ◼ ► iv's disciples right so i don't know i i i i almost feel like he's doing a solid for his team
02:54:02 ◼ ► by allowing people like us to conjecture that hey everything's gotten better since he left even
02:54:11 ◼ ► though nothing's actually changed like if he had stayed another five years i think everything would
02:54:15 ◼ ► be pretty much what we have today but my come i don't i don't know i don't know either i don't
02:54:21 ◼ ► know that because you know politically it's even though these are people who were all working under
02:54:25 ◼ ► him for the most part it's still not him being there he had so much clout in the company so much
02:54:33 ◼ ► power that just him not being there i think allows other people and their ideas to shine through a
02:54:39 ◼ ► little bit more than they otherwise would have and and even suppose i mean i don't know how any of
02:54:44 ◼ ► this stuff works because people don't talk suppose that some of the laptop ports and things like that
02:54:50 ◼ ► maybe some of those decisions were being pushed by say product marketing and industrial design
02:54:56 ◼ ► said no you know that's the kind of thing like if johnny is there heading up industrial design
02:55:01 ◼ ► that kind of decision has a lot more sway yep and can probably it's probably harder to override
02:55:07 ◼ ► or argue with yep well and then when johnny's gone then maybe there's a better balance between the
02:55:12 ◼ ► different needs right and so the new head of the design team is evan tanki and she has a remarkably
02:55:18 ◼ ► low profile there's actually did you see the gq not gq america but gq uk had an interview with her
02:55:25 ◼ ► about the new macbook air which is kind of really kind of interesting and she she talks about the
02:55:29 ◼ ► fact that it's no longer has tapered edges because it doesn't need them there there was a wallpaper
02:55:35 ◼ ► had a thing with the design team last year which was really really interesting not for what they
02:55:40 ◼ ► said which was mostly the same sort of just sort of prepared canned statements but it was really
02:55:46 ◼ ► interesting because they showed where they work and you could see i thought it was really interesting
02:55:52 ◼ ► that was their actual iphones there was like an overhead shot of the design team at a big table
02:55:56 ◼ ► and you could see which people on the design team use iphone cases and which ones don't and how many
02:56:02 ◼ ► yeah and a bunch of them actually use the wallet and that was not for show and it was not well we
02:56:08 ◼ ► better put up onto these magsafe wallets on here because we're selling them i i verified with
02:56:13 ◼ ► somebody who would definitely know that no those are just their that was their phones and that's
02:56:18 ◼ ► the the ones who had wallets were the people who use the magsafe wallet they showed a bunch of
02:56:23 ◼ ► stuff on the wall from sf sf symbols which is sort of like a font but it's like a collection of how
02:56:30 ◼ ► many sf symbols are there now that's there about 3800 yeah so i was gonna say thousands yeah 3800
02:56:36 ◼ ► little icons for all sorts of things it's one of the neatest things apple has done in recent years
02:56:41 ◼ ► because they're available to all developers so if you need like a weird icon like a finger pointing
02:56:47 ◼ ► type thing or whatever they had all these things on the wall and they showed us the the return of
02:56:52 ◼ ► the dog cow which is coming back a little bit of whimsy coming back to mac os in the and apparently
02:56:57 ◼ ► in the ios too where the print dialogue is going to have claris the dog cow to show you whether
02:57:01 ◼ ► you're printing in landscape or portrait which is awesome and warms my heart and is fun and is both
02:57:09 ◼ ► pleasing to someone who knows where it comes from in the history but also as good as any way of
02:57:17 ◼ ► indicating whether the print is going to be portrait or landscape so why not it was hanging
02:57:21 ◼ ► on the wall in their design studio before it ever came out in software when has apple ever shown
02:57:27 ◼ ► stuff like that fun by all accounts evans hanky is a very keen manager but she's not a designer
02:57:33 ◼ ► herself really not like johnny i've so she's a very high profile person at apple who we know
02:57:40 ◼ ► almost nothing about because she has never appeared on stage doesn't do the videos like
02:57:45 ◼ ► johnny did i would love to meet her if anybody's listening could make that happen so it's hard to
02:57:51 ◼ ► know what her direct influence is but i don't think i don't think the apple's hardware would
02:57:56 ◼ ► be different at all or very different if johnny i've had stayed on as chief design officer but
02:58:01 ◼ ► the weird thing to me not weird i guess it's not surprising but the big change isn't johnny i've
02:58:07 ◼ ► himself it's the fact that when johnny was there he was the chief motherfucker in charge right he
02:58:12 ◼ ► actually got a c-level title chief design officer and when he left there was no replacement for the
02:58:18 ◼ ► chief design officer let's say jeff williams decides i'm going to spend the rest of my life
02:58:23 ◼ ► on the beach um i've had my good run i've got lots of money i'm done and he left they're going to name
02:58:28 ◼ ► a new coo right there's going to be another jaws leaves decides to go and again go to the beach or
02:58:36 ◼ ► whatever you do when you retire somebody else is going to become the senior vice president for
02:58:41 ◼ ► product marketing johnny i've left and there was no replacement as chief design officer is that good
02:58:46 ◼ ► or bad i don't know right like you're saying maybe it's best to let the product marketing and jaws
02:58:55 ◼ ► be in charge of the actual product design and the design team answers to product marketing and
02:59:01 ◼ ► the software wise answers to fedorigi and fedorii is in charge of software and the design team
02:59:08 ◼ ► answers to craig fedorigi on software but there's no longer and up until johnny i've was chief
02:59:16 ◼ ► design officer there was always a chief motherfucker in charge of apple design it was steve jobs
02:59:21 ◼ ► and then it was johnny by himself and now nobody is that what's the long-term effect of not having
02:59:30 ◼ ► a singular person's taste running the whole thing i mean in in large in large ways i think it's
02:59:38 ◼ ► probably better to have some degree of committee not obviously design by committee is is a is like
02:59:45 ◼ ► this well-known fallacy for a reason you don't want to be too outrageous but to have to have it be
02:59:51 ◼ ► a little bit more collaborative instead of just one person being able to dictate everything the
02:59:57 ◼ ► way they want i think is is a benefit and and and i don't know if that's exactly how he worked but
03:00:02 ◼ ► he definitely had that power if he wanted to and you know you can you can look at the designs now
03:00:06 ◼ ► and you can see like hardware wise it seems like they have a really coherent vision coming out
03:00:12 ◼ ► however it's happening it is and whether it's evan's hanky just being really good at managing
03:00:17 ◼ ► the design or doing doing some of those on herself i don't know i don't know what her background
03:00:21 ◼ ► managing egos yeah that's probably a lot of it when you're working with a bunch of really
03:00:26 ◼ ► talented people that's probably a huge part of the job but whatever it is she's doing a great job of
03:00:30 ◼ ► getting out there a coherent vision with the hardware that is both attractive and functional
03:00:37 ◼ ► and seems to be very well designed in almost every way that i can think of i mean really it's
03:00:43 ◼ ► like i i couldn't have done a better job with with again colors aside that's like my main complaint
03:00:48 ◼ ► otherwise like this is a these this is a pretty great series of hardware that they're that they
03:00:52 ◼ ► put out recently and and so the hardware design seems totally fine the software is a mess and and
03:00:59 ◼ ► it's continue i mean geez have you have you used the settings app yet in ventura how long how much
03:01:05 ◼ ► time it's so much time do we have left marco oh my god it's so like i i hadn't used it until
03:01:12 ◼ ► yesterday when i put the beta on this new map of air it's so much worse than i thought like it
03:01:17 ◼ ► i it still looks like the css hasn't loaded like i can't i can't believe this is what they're
03:01:23 ◼ ► shipping even if they're going to make small tweaks you can now release like we are so far
03:01:28 ◼ ► beyond what small tweaks can fix this is i i frankly i can't believe it it feels like such
03:01:34 ◼ ► a downgrade every like every it's every year i the same thing happens to me and i'm sure it'll
03:01:39 ◼ ► happen again next year and the year after is wwdc comes out in early june and they show us stuff and
03:01:45 ◼ ► some of the stuff is incomplete and i think well they have a lot of time until it's supposed to
03:01:49 ◼ ► ship right and every year i think that and then every year the summer goes on and it doesn't
03:01:54 ◼ ► change nearly as much as and then all of a sudden we get to like this point right even just mid july
03:02:00 ◼ ► just like six five six weeks after wwdc and then i start to remember all the times i've worked on
03:02:05 ◼ ► software projects and i'm like oh yeah everything takes way longer than you thought it would even
03:02:11 ◼ ► fixes and it's like holy shit it's going to be september soon this this stuff is going to be
03:02:15 ◼ ► locked down into a gm for ios soon and i don't know how long they think they can stretch it with
03:02:22 ◼ ► mac to come out in the fall maybe october at the latest i mean it's not going to be that like
03:02:27 ◼ ► and and major design changes don't happen at the last minute hey i'm opt to i'm the opt to i'd
03:02:32 ◼ ► wish them nothing but the best i'd love for settings to improve remarkably between today
03:02:38 ◼ ► when you and i are talking and whenever mac os ventura ships in october early november at the
03:02:45 ◼ ► latest but man that is coming really fast and boy i don't see it so yeah no i mean they haven't
03:02:53 ◼ ► fixed notifications on the mac yet since big sir yeah have you have they even touched them like
03:02:57 ◼ ► it's this clearly very flawed difficult design and yet it hasn't changed in almost now three major os
03:03:06 ◼ ► versions like it they clearly the software design team is not super responsive to complaints and
03:03:15 ◼ ► problems with their design everybody has blind spots right but it seems and i think they're
03:03:20 ◼ ► they're super not responsible and it seems like everybody who could really really make the needle
03:03:25 ◼ ► scratch and say stop stop stop we've got to fix this they've all got the same blind spots and
03:03:31 ◼ ► they've had them for years and i don't know i don't know how we get out of it no i mean the
03:03:37 ◼ ► the settings app on ventura looks like a prototype that you would show in like a design meeting and
03:03:44 ◼ ► say hey what if we go this direction yeah and somebody else would say oh yeah let's try that
03:03:48 ◼ ► let's start that now let's see it in a year right and then they would go back to shipping the old
03:03:53 ◼ ► version of settings because it's better for now and this isn't done at all yet like that that's
03:03:57 ◼ ► it looks like a prototype and it doesn't look it's like no it doesn't look better in any way it's
03:04:05 ◼ ► what you could say one thing about about some of apple software design you can say like well it
03:04:08 ◼ ► looks nicer even if it works even if it works worse right this doesn't even look nicer than
03:04:13 ◼ ► what you're placing like this looks worse and works works like i it looks again it looks like
03:04:19 ◼ ► the css failed to load it looks like an electron app it looks like everything that's like the the
03:04:23 ◼ ► opposite of good mac design and i'm not trying to stay in the past here i know stuff moves on
03:04:30 ◼ ► trends move on design moves on i'm not saying everything should look like aqua in 2003 but this
03:04:36 ◼ ► is this is just not good design in any way it's not good visual design or usability design no
03:04:40 ◼ ► it's and it's just weird it's just weird to have like the labels so far away from the thing that
03:04:47 ◼ ► you press to activate the label it's just it's just it's not good and there's so many hover
03:04:52 ◼ ► states on everything and the controls look wrong and it just and it's the settings app why not just
03:04:58 ◼ ► load it up you know everything's so low contrast it's just seas of light gray divided by other
03:05:05 ◼ ► light gray separated by slightly lighter gray it's like oh my god you have these amazing screens with
03:05:12 ◼ ► amazing contrast use some of it like come on what was the one there's one where you it's like when
03:05:18 ◼ ► you type the name of the it's like when you want to give your mac a name and it's like where the
03:05:22 ◼ ► hell do you do it and there's like an edit button but the edit button doesn't let you edit the name
03:05:26 ◼ ► and then it's like you just click where the name is and even though it doesn't look like editable
03:05:31 ◼ ► text it is like it literally doesn't doesn't even look like a text field it's like they've gone all
03:05:36 ◼ ► the way to now you just click on it and start typing and and it works and it's like i don't
03:05:41 ◼ ► even know where that i don't know it's there's a couple of things like that anyway i think we're
03:05:45 ◼ ► out of time we can't we get finally yeah us finally we cannot we we shouldn't have even
03:05:51 ◼ ► brought up the settings app except that we kind of had to let me thank the sponsors we had we had
03:05:57 ◼ ► fantastic sponsors for this episode i'll go in reverse order i think squarespace brand new
03:06:02 ◼ ► sponsor i think linode where you can host your website or your servers or your databases hover
03:06:08 ◼ ► where you can register domain names trade coffee where you can order coffee get shipped to home
03:06:14 ◼ ► fresh coffee and ship station oh man that that's another new one my thanks to them marco it's always
03:06:21 ◼ ► a pleasure to talk to you and i appreciate the bonus length time you you've devoted to this
03:06:26 ◼ ► episode but this was good yeah thanks there's a lot of fun three three and a half hours of fun
03:06:32 ◼ ► i hope you met it you sound a little sarcastic there no i actually i really enjoyed this all
03:06:37 ◼ ► right i have a real problem in my marriage where i it is years no but i say things and i'm almost
03:06:44 ◼ ► never ever ever sarcastic to my wife because i'm afraid of her but i often say things and i as soon
03:06:50 ◼ ► as they're out of my mouth i'm like oh that sounded like i didn't mean it like hey would you mind going
03:06:54 ◼ ► to get ice we're having people over like yeah sure i'll get ice and it's like oh that sounded like i
03:06:59 ◼ ► meant like she's putting me on yeah so i i don't know i'm getting sensitive to because i you know i
03:07:04 ◼ ► don't know if you know this i do have a sarcastic streak i just don't let it come out also no i i
03:07:10 ◼ ► love doing this for the un-eternity it's actually like this is the longest podcast i record every
03:07:15 ◼ ► year and it's fun let me tell you this speaking of my lovely wife amy i about an hour ago i was
03:07:21 ◼ ► out of hop water here and my throat i'd still i need more i've actually consumed more water than
03:07:27 ◼ ► i usually do during a podcast i texted her to bring me if she could or just send them send the
03:07:33 ◼ ► boy down send me send send somebody down here with another hop water and she texted me back and and
03:07:39 ◼ ► before she did and she's or right before she did it took her a while she said sorry she wasn't
03:07:45 ◼ ► wearing her watch and then this is what she texted me she's not listening we don't have a live thing
03:07:49 ◼ ► she hasn't been listening in this is her exact text so sorry not wearing my watch tell marco
03:07:55 ◼ ► that hops water tastes like an airplane toilet oh we've got we've got we've known now from now that
03:08:02 ◼ ► i think from the tray table to the table now that i think about it that's what she said all along
03:08:06 ◼ ► i actually misquoted her this is why i need to do the correction right here on the show she
03:08:10 ◼ ► actually said after taking a sip that it was she is how she imagined i hope god i hope because i've
03:08:15 ◼ ► kissed that mouse that she it's how she imagined an airplane toilet taste not an airplane tray so
03:08:21 ◼ ► your your mileage may vary with the hop water i love it i feel like if you like ipa's like if
03:08:29 ◼ ► you like strong hops flavor in beer then you have a chance of liking this if you if you are not an