The Talk Show

116: ‘Browser Pooped on the Wee-Wee Pad’ With Guest Joanna Stern


00:00:00   So, Joanna, it's Stern, you have a new puppy.

00:00:02   And it's a boy?

00:00:03   It's a boy.

00:00:04   What's his name?

00:00:05   I had a boy.

00:00:06   It's a boy.

00:00:07   What's his name?

00:00:08   His name is Browser.

00:00:09   Mmm.

00:00:10   Yeah, yeah.

00:00:11   That's it.

00:00:12   As in, not as in Safari, Firefox, or Chrome.

00:00:18   Just Browser.

00:00:19   That's good.

00:00:20   We show no platform.

00:00:21   We're platform agnostic in the puppy family here.

00:00:24   Somehow Browser makes for a good dog name, but any one of the individual ones would be

00:00:27   a terrible name.

00:00:28   I know.

00:00:29   We had so many things on the list and my wife said no to pretty much every other tech name

00:00:34   I had on the list.

00:00:35   I mean I think Cordy is a mistake.

00:00:37   I think we should have named him Cordy.

00:00:39   I'm trying to think which browser would make for the worst name.

00:00:44   I.E.

00:00:45   Come here I.E.

00:00:46   Come here I.E.

00:00:47   Chrome sounds a little cold.

00:00:50   Oh you crashed again.

00:00:51   You crashed.

00:00:52   Yeah, yeah so he's adorable.

00:00:56   He's really adorable.

00:00:57   into that person that I hate, which I'm constantly posting photos of my puppy doing like the

00:01:02   same thing that he did five minutes ago.

00:01:05   Like right now he's sleeping under my desk and I'm doing, it's taking everything in me

00:01:08   not to post another photo of him.

00:01:11   Firefox sounds like a cool dog name.

00:01:13   It does.

00:01:14   It would have been a little bit like of an identity crisis for him, I feel like.

00:01:16   I'm going to say Internet Explorer is the worst name for a dog.

00:01:19   And I'm going to say Firefox is the, was the best, if you were to name your dog after any

00:01:24   the individual browser yeah yeah I mean Netscape would have been it would have

00:01:30   been cute hmm maybe was that your watch pinging yes one of the little details of

00:01:38   wearing the watch is that now there's yet another thing to make sure is silent

00:01:42   I know I'm gonna silence it maybe I'm not you know what I'm not going to and

00:01:47   let's just see how many times it goes off that's right all right I actually

00:01:51   find and I guess we're just diving right into it I found I even wrote about this

00:01:55   that the watch works way more naturally to me with sound off I have sound off I

00:02:00   would say in the I guess it's been two weeks yeah I guess as we're recording

00:02:04   we've had it for two plus weeks two weeks of daily use I think I've had

00:02:09   sound off night 90% of the time actually it's funny because I usually like when I

00:02:15   put it in do not disturb mode or silent mode I forget about it and then when I'm like you

00:02:21   know I haven't heard the sound in a while I turn it back on but when you say sound off

00:02:27   you just have the tap deck yes so I'm still getting the alerts it's just the noises for

00:02:34   them that that I don't have one yeah you know what I haven't had that on that much either

00:02:38   to be honest because if I'm in meetings or stuff I turn that off and it's not just about

00:02:43   interrupting people to me, it's, I don't know, somehow in my mind, it just feels right. It

00:02:48   feels right that the watch is tapping me to say, Hey, I've got something right sound to

00:02:52   me. It's like that. I had that with my phone. I don't know. It doesn't it. It just doesn't

00:02:58   seem right to me that my that my watch is making noise.

00:03:01   The only sound I have on my phone is for my email, or I message pretty much everything.

00:03:09   But on the other hand, I do think I'm on the fence about this. I can't quite tell. Like

00:03:13   I kind of thing and this is one of the things that even two weeks in I can't quite make

00:03:17   up my mind. I kind of feel like I want the Taptic Engine to be a little bit stronger.

00:03:23   Really just a little and it just seems like every once in a while I miss one. It's you

00:03:29   miss one. I've had that too. I've definitely had that where I miss one but sometimes I

00:03:33   feel like maybe it's because my my Milanese loop is a little bit loose. My loop is loose.

00:03:39   sounds really bad. The Milanese though you can. It's just a it's just a question of how

00:03:44   comfortable it is. If you wanted it tighter, you could just tighten it. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

00:03:49   I find it so comfortable. I mean, I cannot overestimate how comfortable this thing is.

00:03:54   Yeah, I it seems comfortable. I did not get to spend time with it. I wasn't sure what

00:03:58   they were going to do. And I feel like which one are you wearing? I'm wearing the link

00:04:01   bracelet again, the link 90% of the time, but I have I think everybody got the white

00:04:06   sport band oh no no I have the bow you did get blue I forgot I said I remember

00:04:10   from your video did you ask for that yeah or they just gave it to you a

00:04:14   little inside baseball I didn't ask for that but I think they didn't they didn't

00:04:21   even I wasn't even offered a choice of a sport band they just gave me white yeah

00:04:26   I asked for black and then they didn't have the black when they came to New

00:04:30   York and so they're gonna get me this swap out the black but actually that's

00:04:33   the one I'm in order so yeah and I've heard people I have not done the because

00:04:38   we're you and I are spoiled and we've already got review units I have not done

00:04:44   the thing where I've gone to a store and tried on the watches me either but I

00:04:48   have heard from people who have who a bunch of them seem to say that the

00:04:53   various sport bands feel subtly different from each other that black is

00:04:58   is even more supple than white.

00:05:01   Not that they're radically different,

00:05:03   but that they're different enough that they feel confident

00:05:05   that like with their eyes closed,

00:05:06   they could tell which was which.

00:05:08   - Right.

00:05:09   Well, I have this problem with the sport band

00:05:11   and it's a small problem,

00:05:13   so I didn't really talk about it much.

00:05:15   You kind of see it in that video

00:05:16   when I'm having a hard time putting it on,

00:05:18   where they have the small-medium band in the same one

00:05:22   and then they have the medium-large band.

00:05:25   And the medium-large band is a little bit too big,

00:05:28   like the last one, the last, what's it, hole,

00:05:32   there's probably a professional word for that hole.

00:05:35   Anyway, on that one it gets a little bit too big,

00:05:39   so I have to use the smaller band,

00:05:40   which makes it much harder to put on,

00:05:42   but it fits much nicer when I have it on,

00:05:45   and for what I've found, you know,

00:05:47   I always change into that for working out,

00:05:49   and that fit is so important when you're working out,

00:05:52   because I found, you know, I did a couple of workout classes

00:05:55   with the Milanese, went on a run,

00:05:57   and I really did not find as accurate heart rate tracking.

00:06:00   And then when I switch it for that sport band,

00:06:02   it's far more accurate.

00:06:04   The problem is it takes me forever to put it on

00:06:06   because it's a little bit too small,

00:06:09   but when I finally get it on my wrist, it fits perfectly.

00:06:11   - I see what you mean.

00:06:12   I read that in a review

00:06:14   and that was one of the things I wanna talk about.

00:06:15   Now I understand why you found it a little harder to get on.

00:06:17   So in other words, when you put the smaller,

00:06:20   just to step back up,

00:06:21   I know there's been a lot of confusion on this

00:06:23   because just from people who read the site

00:06:26   emailing me and twittering, tweeting me, when it says that you get two straps with your

00:06:31   Apple Watch Sport, what they mean is you get two sizes. It's, it's and that that's true

00:06:39   whether you get 38 or 42. So you actually get three pieces, the top piece is the same,

00:06:46   the one that actually has the slot that the other piece tucks under, and it has the pin.

00:06:51   And then you get two bottom pieces, the piece with the holes that you pop the pin into.

00:06:57   One is smaller, one is larger.

00:06:59   I see what you're saying.

00:07:00   You're saying that the smaller of them, once it's on, is a better feel.

00:07:03   But because there's only a little bit left of it to tuck under.

00:07:07   Right.

00:07:08   Right.

00:07:09   I actually wonder like, is that really meant for kids?

00:07:12   Like who has that small of a wrist for the for the really, when you when you get it on

00:07:17   like the closest and strap the small and we have it, it's on the other side of the room.

00:07:21   I'm afraid I'll wake up the puppy if I go get it.

00:07:24   It's really small.

00:07:27   - Yeah, I totally-- - Right?

00:07:28   I mean, I assume, I wonder if the bands are the same size,

00:07:33   they must be, right?

00:07:34   The bands must be the same size

00:07:35   whether you got the 38 or the 42.

00:07:37   - No, I think that the 42s are probably bigger

00:07:39   because the 42, no, I--

00:07:44   - You think that-- - Yeah, I think that

00:07:45   the big one on the 42 is, it's just humongous.

00:07:49   It is, it's almost, I would guess that there are very few men on the planet for whom the

00:07:57   larger of the 42 is still not big enough.

00:08:01   It is truly, truly, it's like putting a belt on my wrist.

00:08:04   So the small one, actually for me with the 42, and you know, I'm 6'2", I mean, I'm not,

00:08:09   my wrists aren't particularly large.

00:08:10   I think they're, you know, for someone as tall as I am, they're probably a little bit

00:08:14   on the small side.

00:08:15   The smaller one, I use the smaller one with the 42

00:08:19   and I'm only like three holes into it.

00:08:22   - The smaller one with the, oh.

00:08:25   - Like I actually have five, five,

00:08:27   or I think there's seven holes.

00:08:29   So I'm not even halfway on the smaller one.

00:08:33   It's actually, the 42s are very large.

00:08:36   And I definitely--

00:08:37   - Okay, so that-- - I definitely--

00:08:38   - That would make sense. - Yeah, and I definitely

00:08:39   think that the 38 small one is definitely meant

00:08:42   to range down to kid sizes, 'cause we've done the thing

00:08:44   where you know Apple has the, here's what your,

00:08:47   you know, measure your wrist in millimeters

00:08:50   and here's the ranges.

00:08:52   And for Jonas, who's only 11 and is pretty slight

00:08:55   for an 11 year old boy, he easily is within the range.

00:08:59   Like it's not even, you know, he might even have

00:09:01   like a hole or two to spare.

00:09:02   - Is he getting one?

00:09:05   - He wants one.

00:09:06   I think there's some question over report card grades

00:09:10   and motivating him to get one.

00:09:12   But he desperately wants one.

00:09:14   Oh, man, that they would it like I'm trying to think of what I used to work for when I

00:09:19   was younger.

00:09:20   Yeah, I think money.

00:09:23   It's our sports.

00:09:24   I worked for like sports stuff.

00:09:25   He might not shock people.

00:09:27   I was a huge tomboy.

00:09:28   So it'd be like if I could get a new one time really wanted a new basketball hoop or something

00:09:33   like that, like a, you know, upgrade from a crappy rubber basketball to a nice synthetic

00:09:39   leather.

00:09:40   Right.

00:09:41   Right.

00:09:42   always my problem growing up playing basketball is if I ever needed a new one, I wanted the

00:09:46   $45 synthetic leather Spalding. And my parents would be like, "Are you nuts? Here's a

00:09:52   $17 basketball." I'd be like, "But it's made out of rubber."

00:09:54   [Laughter]

00:09:55   Yeah. And now the kids work for Apple Watches. That's cute.

00:09:59   He desperately wants one.

00:10:01   But I do wonder, I wonder who that's really useful for. I mean, for kids. I wonder what

00:10:07   the use case is going to be for them.

00:10:10   Well, we can get into that, but I'm again, it's speculative and it's certainly and there's

00:10:16   you know, clearly socio economic implications of the idea of a school where a bunch of the

00:10:22   kids have $400 Apple watches.

00:10:26   But in that world, I think that the communication stuff is going to be huge.

00:10:30   Right, because they have a lot.

00:10:34   I think it's, how would you say it was 11 11?

00:10:37   Eleven, yeah I mean you're not in, they have all these kiddie like smartwatches I

00:10:43   guess that's what they're called but you know they are sort of the trackers that have

00:10:47   the built-in GPS and stuff like that.

00:10:49   I mean it seems like that's probably not the right age range for something like this.

00:10:56   And in terms of communication obviously it would be great for parents right, keeping

00:11:01   tabs on their kids, making sure they see the like alerts or something like that but I don't

00:11:06   know if it it spans into that tracking type of thing yeah it's no more so than

00:11:12   having a phone I think it's on right but that's you know and he's in fifth grade

00:11:18   I can't even imagine what it's like with the girls who are clearly more advanced

00:11:23   socially than the boys right but even with his friends there's the texting is

00:11:29   really taken off this year like fifth grade seems to be where the boys in his

00:11:33   class and really taken off with the texting and I don't even pay attention

00:11:37   to it my wife does just to make sure it's you know you know nothing

00:11:41   inappropriate or whatever but it just seems inscrutable it's like gibberish

00:11:45   it's like it's like a foreign language well that well that brings me to the

00:11:51   best part of your review your view is great but I have to say the best part of

00:11:54   your review is your your teen romance at the end which is also the part that got

00:11:59   the most like you've you've freaking serious this is a bunch of crap you know

00:12:04   you either can see you can either foresee you're the type of person who

00:12:07   can see that scenario or you're not and the people who cannot see it think that

00:12:11   I'm you know that I you know I don't know drank too much rose wine or

00:12:14   whatever when I wrote that part but I meant it seriously I really did I mean I

00:12:21   think if if anything I mean do you think years ago we could have first seen us

00:12:26   communicating at all with emoji?

00:12:28   No.

00:12:29   I mean, right?

00:12:30   Like that, I mean, as crazy as some of those graphs sounded and as crazy as some of these

00:12:35   like emoticons that they put on here and as much as I sort of made fun of them a little

00:12:39   bit, you just really don't know.

00:12:41   And like, I think it would have sounded crazy to us a number of years ago that like, we

00:12:46   would all be texting in emojis and sometimes complete sentences in them and people understand

00:12:51   that.

00:12:52   Like, that idea is kind of crazy, and I certainly think that visual way of communicating with each other,

00:12:59   whether it's photos or creepy mime hands or creepy heart rates,

00:13:05   could certainly be way bigger than we actually think it might be.

00:13:09   But I think you were totally right to say that it might appeal to a younger demographic,

00:13:15   or it just might turn into something that like becomes this language amongst a different

00:13:22   sort of generation? Maybe just shows how old we are.

00:13:25   I don't know.

00:13:26   I don't know.

00:13:27   That's exactly the sort of thing I was trying to get at and I believe it. So this is a true

00:13:30   story. So my wife and I grew up together. We were literally in the same kindergarten

00:13:35   class. And in high school, at one point, where we would one way we would more or less flirt

00:13:42   with each other, is we just had a system—we had the same math classes—and we had a system

00:13:48   where I would, I had like a, I think it was a Casio, but it was the type of calculator

00:13:54   that someone in AP Calculus in 1989 or '90 would have. It had a whole bunch of buttons

00:14:00   and it had memory and it had a way to actually put characters in there. So we had this complicated

00:14:06   system of letters and numbers to make letter, you know, to make notes. And it was incredibly

00:14:12   cryptic. But then we would just swap calculators and we'd have notes for each other. And it

00:14:17   was super, you know, it wasn't, you couldn't actually type, it didn't have A to Z, so you

00:14:22   had to skip certain things. But it felt like it was foolproof because anybody, you know,

00:14:29   like if a teacher caught us, all it looked like is we were swapping calculators. And

00:14:32   And even if they saw what was on the screen, they wouldn't be able to understand it.

00:14:37   And at…

00:14:38   What grade were you guys in?

00:14:39   Oh my…

00:14:40   This must be like 11th and 12th grade.

00:14:42   Oh my God.

00:14:43   That's amazing.

00:14:44   It's…

00:14:45   We talked…

00:14:46   We were, you know, we actually were…

00:14:47   Hadn't thought about it in years, but we talked about it in the context of Apple Watch

00:14:50   and, you know, what we would have done if we had Apple Watches when we were in 11th

00:14:54   and 12th grade.

00:14:56   Right.

00:14:57   Right.

00:14:58   Huh.

00:14:59   I mean, it's also…

00:15:00   It's that sort of slide…

00:15:02   three I'll get a count I think that's three is it three let me see here oh yes

00:15:06   my editor trying to get me on the phone right now sorry I need to pause this

00:15:11   podcast right now that's fine no I don't I don't really if you did you'd be fine

00:15:18   wait was that me that was me oh my god another one just pop that wasn't you I

00:15:24   mind silent because I have my headphones on too so if I'm hearing them I think

00:15:28   I think I'm hearing him through my mic.

00:15:33   Yeah I'm keeping this on, I think this is great.

00:15:35   People can get a real idea of how many alerts I get.

00:15:38   Yeah, back to your, that's an amazing story.

00:15:41   I mean yeah, I think like there's also this idea of like sort of slyly communicating with

00:15:47   someone when nobody else knows, right?

00:15:49   And so like you were describing with the calculator or someone who's you know in a movie theater

00:15:54   or something like that.

00:15:56   It could be, it could certainly be interesting.

00:15:57   I think yeah, I mean I made some sarcastic comments about the certain emojis, but they're

00:16:04   definitely fun.

00:16:05   There is a bootstrapping issue with it, whether it's teenagers or whatever, which is that

00:16:13   the most innovative ways to communicate, the drawings, the taps, the heartbeats, are only

00:16:19   watch to watch.

00:16:20   And so the bootstrapping issue is it only works if the person you want to send these

00:16:24   to also has a watch.

00:16:26   And it's weird.

00:16:27   And so a bunch of people wrote to me after my review came up and they said, "For this

00:16:31   particular case, I'm surprised Apple didn't give you two so that you could have your wife

00:16:36   wear one and then you could try these things out."

00:16:38   And they're like, "So how did you try those things?"

00:16:41   And the answer is we're sending taps and stuff to people at Apple, PR people and product

00:16:49   marketing people.

00:16:51   I did not, I will say this, I found it weird enough that I didn't want to send my heartbeat

00:16:56   to anybody because it felt, I don't know, it just was like a little, I don't know,

00:17:02   just didn't feel right.

00:17:03   A little too personal?

00:17:04   Yeah.

00:17:05   Yeah.

00:17:06   I mean, I've been sending my heart rate to, my heartbeat to Neelay Patel for like two

00:17:08   weeks now and I think it's really brought us closer together.

00:17:12   That should have sent mine to Neelay too.

00:17:13   That's what I should have done.

00:17:14   Yeah.

00:17:15   I think we are really, we've gotten to know each other on another level.

00:17:19   So –

00:17:20   I sent tabs to you and you ignored me.

00:17:23   Did you not get them?

00:17:24   Did you miss my tabs?

00:17:25   Oh, man.

00:17:26   greatest diss now of the say I just ignored your taps get out of my face

00:17:33   taps I don't think I knew they were from you oh maybe they came from like a weird

00:17:39   phone number maybe it was my phone number and I mean I do like what what's

00:17:43   your area to six seven I don't think I got that yeah because that's one thing

00:17:48   about them the the the other thing about all three of the watch specific

00:17:53   communications, the doodles, the taps, the heartbeats is they are ephemeral. And

00:18:00   right.

00:18:00   You so another there's there is no record of them. There's no way to go back and replay

00:18:06   them. So there's a sort of snap chattyness ephemeral quality to them. There is no record

00:18:12   of them. You know, so

00:18:14   well, they show up in your notifications. Like you can go access them after the fact.

00:18:17   Yeah, but then once you play it, it's gone.

00:18:20   Yeah, right, it's gone.

00:18:23   But I don't even think I got that from you.

00:18:26   Did you doodle or you just…

00:18:27   I just sent you some taps.

00:18:28   I'll send you some taps right now.

00:18:30   Send me some taps.

00:18:31   Yeah, I don't think I even have your cell phone number.

00:18:35   I guess you do need it.

00:18:36   Yeah.

00:18:37   You need iCloud, right?

00:18:38   Yes.

00:18:39   I also sort of broke my digital crown.

00:18:41   Really?

00:18:42   How?

00:18:43   You know in that scene in the video when I got some toothpaste up up tapped tapped you tapped you

00:18:50   There we go blue taps blue taps, yeah, that's me

00:18:55   I'm mr. Blue taps. I'm gonna add I'm not gonna block I'm gonna add

00:19:00   Also, like what can you really risk realistically doodle on this screen other than like high and a flower or a heart or a

00:19:13   I'm not going to say what I would have done if I was a teenager, but yeah.

00:19:21   It's funny though, I guess I didn't have your phone number, but now they're sending it as…

00:19:25   right, and there it is, Joanna sent me a green hi.

00:19:31   So I should add, but I've got to add it here.

00:19:36   I think people really appreciate this conversation right now.

00:19:38   - Well, I don't know, I think that it's,

00:19:40   it's, I don't know what it is.

00:19:46   It makes for a weird podcast,

00:19:48   but I feel like it's very hard to,

00:19:50   it's hard to, it's really hard to write about

00:19:52   and maybe it's easier to talk about.

00:19:54   - All right, if you're quiet enough,

00:19:56   maybe everyone can hear my heartbeat.

00:19:58   - Right.

00:19:59   - I don't know, but I feel we're close enough, John,

00:20:05   that I could send you my heartbeat right now.

00:20:06   - Sure, well, I got it.

00:20:07   - I got it. - Let's see if you feel

00:20:08   that way. - I do have it.

00:20:09   - Let's see if you feel that way to return that.

00:20:12   And I will understand if you don't, but I won't really.

00:20:15   - Oh, I guess, see now I gave,

00:20:22   see this is where I started, I still get mixed up.

00:20:23   I gave it a force tap and it wanted me to.

00:20:26   - Yeah, no, I mean, it's not, it's,

00:20:29   I have had a lot hard time getting it

00:20:31   to catch my heartbeat when I do that.

00:20:33   'Cause it's not like, also I have the smaller screen,

00:20:36   so I'm putting two fingers on the screen which basically takes up the whole screen.

00:20:43   He did it everybody.

00:20:44   He sent me his heartbeat.

00:20:46   I don't know if you can hear it.

00:20:52   No, I think it's hard to hear.

00:20:54   Well who knows.

00:20:55   We had to like when we filmed the video we stuck the mic in it and actually got it but

00:20:59   that to me though I'm telling you that to me is one that's going to work.

00:21:03   I think that people are going to use it.

00:21:06   Yeah, probably.

00:21:08   It's just a way of saying, hey, I'm thinking about you.

00:21:10   Right, right.

00:21:12   Oh, certainly if it's someone close to you.

00:21:16   Right.

00:21:17   But I think that's something that I didn't get to talk about in my review and something

00:21:22   I've been thinking about.

00:21:23   As more and more people wear these, sort of like the iPhone, right?

00:21:27   The iPhone became a really powerful tool as more and more people got them, right?

00:21:31   Not only because more apps came out, but even just in terms of communicating, iMessage was

00:21:35   one thing I think like to me iMessage is such a huge part of my life even though I don't

00:21:39   really think about it, but it's part of the thing that sort of that's how I communicate

00:21:44   with everyone all day long, my colleagues, my friends, my family. And the same sort of

00:21:50   thing with the watch, right? Like if more and more people have this, there might be,

00:21:54   there are going to become these ways where we can connect to those other people that

00:21:57   have them. And actually one thing I've been thinking about and you know I wrote this piece

00:22:01   a couple like a year ago a year ago now about business cards and like I want

00:22:07   there to be some easy way where if you see another person with an Apple watch

00:22:10   you can easily sort of transmit information or their contact information

00:22:14   like a handshake you know what I've been saying about this for years ever since

00:22:19   the iPhone came out like one of the weird things about the iPhone is that

00:22:22   there's nothing like that and the Newton had it and I know people mock the Newton

00:22:27   but the Newton had a thing where if you met somebody else who had a Newton all

00:22:30   all you had to do was point your IR ports at each other

00:22:33   and it was like two taps away

00:22:35   and you'd exchange contact cards.

00:22:37   And it was, you know, say what you want about the new,

00:22:41   it was one of the things that worked great.

00:22:43   And it seemed like something--

00:22:44   - I love the idea of pointing your IR ports together.

00:22:47   - It seemed like something you should be able to do

00:22:49   and you could do it and it worked.

00:22:50   And yet here we are in 2015 and you still can't do it with,

00:22:53   even if you both have iPhones, let alone--

00:22:55   - No. - Some way to do it

00:22:56   where it would work with anybody's phone.

00:22:58   And that was one of the things I said about the iPhone 6 when it came out with NFC was,

00:23:03   okay it's great for payments but I kind of wish there were more things you could do when

00:23:07   you put this in contact with another phone.

00:23:09   And obviously Android's done some things with their Beam and no one really uses that, but

00:23:14   it seems like, especially with Apple products and iPhones, there is this sort of community

00:23:19   around using the same thing.

00:23:23   It just seems like I would love it if I could shake someone's hand and we could exchange

00:23:27   contact info.

00:23:28   I also see so much potential in the social realm for this.

00:23:33   As much as I see it as being a social norm disruptor, and I have a lot of thoughts about

00:23:38   that, but I think for me, I also want some sort of app that I go to a party or I go to

00:23:44   a meeting and it tells me who that person is.

00:23:46   Again, lots of privacy concerns about that, but I would love it if I'm at CES or some

00:23:53   conference and someone comes up to me and says, "Joanna, it's so great to see you.

00:23:56   person's wearing an Apple watch I'm wearing an Apple watch couldn't it say

00:24:00   oh yeah that's John Gruber right it seems like I mean there's a lot of

00:24:07   privacy concerns but it's just like one thing that I could really use in my life

00:24:10   yeah I don't know there could be some kind of way where it would be sort of

00:24:15   like airdrop where with airdrop you can say contacts only or you can say

00:24:21   everyone and then if you were in a situation like you know like a cocktail

00:24:28   party or some kind of you're you know you're at a conference or a post of

00:24:34   event press thing and you you're mingling but you know you want to meet

00:24:38   people you could set you could change it to you know open to anybody and then

00:24:42   turn it off or even it could even be like the sort of thing where it would it

00:24:46   would say like hey for how long like maybe for the next two hours and then go

00:24:50   back to being contacts only it seems like it's you know like airdrop shows

00:24:54   how you can kind of solve that sort of issue though where yeah you know you may

00:24:59   not want to be open to the general public all the time but temporarily you

00:25:02   might want to be actually at the Apple watch launch event the one in March I

00:25:09   forget like here I I forget his name somebody somebody airdropped me a photo

00:25:15   of them playing with the new MacBook and

00:25:18   It just like showed up because I guess I had my thing on everyone and I wouldn't think about it

00:25:23   I accepted it like it said like so-and-so wants to airdrop you a photo and I accepted it and it was it was fun

00:25:29   I mean in some ways I could see like I didn't really know what I was gonna get before I opened it. So

00:25:33   yeah, but

00:25:36   it's

00:25:37   It's definitely fun

00:25:39   Let me those are my deep thoughts on that

00:25:41   Let me let me take a break at this point and thank the show's first sponsor and our good friends at fracture

00:25:47   you guys know fracture you go to the website fracture me calm and they take your photos and

00:25:53   Print them on glass. So here's what I want you to do go this do this

00:25:58   I keep saying this they've sponsored the show all quarter long

00:26:01   And people keep signing up, but I don't understand why people haven't already done it go through your phone

00:26:07   find your best picture from the last month and

00:26:10   Send it to fracture get it printed out and hang it up on your wall and see

00:26:14   Just how nice it is to have your pictures in the real world off these digital devices

00:26:18   It's so great and I think that ever since I've been using fracture

00:26:24   It really has reminded me of how much I like having my pictures in analog form

00:26:29   Back when our son was born. I just said earlier in the show. He's 11. I was still shooting film 10 years ago

00:26:36   I didn't really switch over to digital photography until like 2006 or so

00:26:41   and we were just looking through a photo album of actual prints of photos from like 10 years ago and it's

00:26:50   Just an amazing thing and it has a different feel to it

00:26:54   So fracture they print your photos directly on glass not a piece of paper stuck to glass. I don't know what they do

00:27:01   They've got some kind of magical machine that prints photos on glass

00:27:06   And so it you end up with an analog photo a piece of glass you can hang on the wall. You can put on your desk

00:27:12   That's just the glass with the photo on it. Like a like the way the retina screens are laminated to to your devices

00:27:19   And it comes in these great cardboard

00:27:23   shipping containers that as you take them apart what's left is all you need to

00:27:28   prop it up like an easel on your desk or a shelf or

00:27:34   With the stuff on the back where you can get a hole and have it hang on the wall

00:27:37   And you don't need a frame. You don't need to put a frame around it. It's just border to border

00:27:42   No frame. It just looks great. It's just a perfect photo edge to edge with great quality

00:27:48   super great color reproduction

00:27:52   I

00:27:53   Just it's the best analog printouts of digital photos that I've ever seen it just it's as good as you can imagine them

00:28:00   Really really great stuff. So my thanks to them and here's the deal if you use the code for the show

00:28:06   It's daring fireball all one word daring fireball

00:28:09   You save 15% off any order and their prices are already great and they have all these any size you can imagine from like

00:28:16   Little 3 by 3 squares all the way up to giant 23 by 27 inch

00:28:22   rectangles so go check them out at

00:28:24   Fracture me dot-com and print get one of your photos printed and just see see how good it is

00:28:30   is.

00:28:31   I'm doing this right now, by the way.

00:28:33   Great.

00:28:34   Don't want you paying.

00:28:35   I might have been joking.

00:28:37   I mean, it looks like, okay, I just figured out what I'm getting my mom for Mother's Day.

00:28:42   I told my mom that after we got married this year, that pretty much for the next 10 years,

00:28:47   she was going to get photos from the wedding.

00:28:48   She's like, "Oh, here's another year.

00:28:51   Here's another version of the photo that you had last year."

00:28:53   It is a surefire Mother's Day gift for any…

00:28:56   It really is.

00:28:57   So this is like a great way.

00:28:58   like here's the photo we gave you for for your birthday a couple months ago but now

00:29:02   look at sunglass.

00:29:05   They this is great actually.

00:29:07   And also I want to get one for my office.

00:29:09   They're really, really great stuff.

00:29:11   One of the things that struck me about your review still talking about the watch and something

00:29:15   that we're not talking about fracture, but something that I couldn't test I had no I

00:29:19   just because I don't know, but how accurate some of the heartbeat like the heartbeat stuff

00:29:24   is. And I thought that was really interesting because you have a dedicated heartbeat monitor

00:29:30   that you strap it around your chest and then you can wear it when you work out. And you've

00:29:35   done tests before for the journal. What was your conclusion? It was the closest thing

00:29:42   you've seen to the accuracy of an EKG?

00:29:44   Yeah. So a couple of months ago, I did this huge project and I'm actually so happy I did

00:29:49   it. At the time, no one really cared. But now, it was actually really looking back on

00:29:53   and it was something I'm really happy we did.

00:29:56   I looked at, so it was when the Microsoft band came out,

00:29:58   Basis' band had just come out,

00:30:00   and it's just like, I kept getting these readings

00:30:03   where it was like, yeah, I certainly don't think

00:30:05   my heart rate is at 120 right now.

00:30:07   It was all like walking to work.

00:30:09   And I actually, at some points, was like,

00:30:10   maybe there's something wrong with my heart.

00:30:12   So anyway, I had started testing these,

00:30:15   and so I went to my general practitioner

00:30:17   who actually happens to also be a cardiologist,

00:30:20   and she did a whole full heart rate work,

00:30:22   a heart workup and turns out I'm perfectly fine,

00:30:25   which was very, very good to know.

00:30:26   And she also, we also did an EKG where you sort of,

00:30:30   you know, run on the treadmill

00:30:31   and have all these electrodes.

00:30:33   So I don't even know if that's the right term

00:30:35   hooked up to your chest and your back and all over you.

00:30:38   - I think there are electrodes.

00:30:40   - Yeah, I think that, yeah, it sounds about right.

00:30:42   Anyway, so she had that, right?

00:30:45   And so that was sort of the constant.

00:30:46   And I then also used at the same time,

00:30:49   compared the Microsoft band, the Basis band,

00:30:52   a Polar chest strap monitor,

00:30:56   and I believe the Fitbit, was the other one that I used?

00:31:00   I should pull up this article.

00:31:02   And found that, one of the things we found

00:31:05   across all of them was that just,

00:31:06   it took them quite a while to catch up

00:31:08   to what my heart rate actually was.

00:31:11   And so that was kind of the problem that I was seeing

00:31:13   when I'd see these irregularities.

00:31:16   If it would say I was at 120 beats per minute,

00:31:18   That might have been where I was actually like 10 minutes ago,

00:31:21   or 20-- it just wasn't catching up in real time.

00:31:25   And so really, I sort of called out these companies

00:31:29   for saying, this is unacceptable.

00:31:31   Like, you shouldn't be surfacing information

00:31:33   to people that just isn't right.

00:31:36   And so the thing that did come the closest to the EKG

00:31:39   was a polar chest strap monitor.

00:31:43   I'll pull up the actual one right now.

00:31:45   the H7, which works with their polar loop band.

00:31:48   And so that was like really, really, really in line

00:31:51   with what I was seeing with the EKG.

00:31:53   And so when I was testing the Apple Watch,

00:31:56   I compared the Apple Watch during a cycling class

00:31:59   and during a few runs to that same polar chest strap monitor

00:32:03   and found that during those workouts,

00:32:06   it was actually really in line.

00:32:08   It was only a couple beats off, usually in the range of five,

00:32:11   from the polar.

00:32:13   And so that was really impressive to me.

00:32:16   The big thing that Apple says they're doing, right,

00:32:18   is they've got a really good fit with the sport band on.

00:32:22   They also say their algorithms are sort of working

00:32:25   to flush out things that might not be right.

00:32:28   And so that, you know, also when you're working out,

00:32:32   it's constantly taking the heart rate

00:32:34   versus when you're not working out,

00:32:36   it's taking it every 10 minutes.

00:32:37   So I definitely did notice at times,

00:32:39   I'd look down at the glances and see, okay, my heart rate,

00:32:43   Like for instance right now, it says it's 61 beats per minute.

00:32:46   You know, that's probably seems about right.

00:32:49   My resting heart rate's around 55 beats per minute.

00:32:53   But now it's measuring, so it could be off.

00:32:55   And I'm also talking quickly now, so it could be higher.

00:32:58   But yeah, I mean, that was something

00:33:01   I wanted to make sure was right.

00:33:03   And I think Apple did a really good job

00:33:05   of getting that aspect right.

00:33:07   Yeah.

00:33:08   I think I'm in bad shape, because mine's usually

00:33:10   around 70 which seems high for a resting pulse. I think it's so I think that's

00:33:16   okay I mean mine fluctuates like throughout the day of normal from sort

00:33:20   of being 50 to 80 something you know it just depends on your nerves depends on

00:33:26   if you've walked around it can depend on a lot of things. I just tried it right now

00:33:29   69 68 just went down yeah I'm relaxing. Right yeah I relaxed yeah I mean I know

00:33:38   That was a big thing for me going into this

00:33:40   because I have been looking for a device

00:33:42   that I can wear all day long and also work out with.

00:33:45   And so, yes, you've got to switch this band,

00:33:49   which is a little bit annoying,

00:33:51   especially given what I talked about

00:33:52   with my sport band thing, but that's, I mean,

00:33:54   I can't say that's gonna affect too many people.

00:33:57   And Apple seems to get around it.

00:33:59   My big thing with it is just,

00:34:01   it's not doing enough with that data yet.

00:34:03   And that's, I think, where the potential of the platform is.

00:34:07   - We can go there, I think we should talk about it.

00:34:08   'Cause it's, to me, this is the part that I explored

00:34:11   the least in my review, because I'm not into fitness.

00:34:14   And combined with that, even just little things,

00:34:16   like with this stupid eye thing I've got,

00:34:18   until, actually just until yesterday,

00:34:20   I was restricted from any kind of vigorous workout.

00:34:23   Like, so all I could do, the only thing I was allowed to do

00:34:25   was walk, which is one of the activities you can do.

00:34:29   And I do realize, you know, whether you're older,

00:34:30   or you have other conditions, maybe a outdoor walk

00:34:35   is the most vigorous thing you can do.

00:34:37   So it's good that it's on the watch,

00:34:38   but it really felt like as a reviewer,

00:34:40   I was doing very little credit to it

00:34:41   as a fitness device by going for a walk.

00:34:46   - No, I mean, people go for walks.

00:34:47   - I know, but I felt like there's more I could have done.

00:34:50   I'm looking. - Yeah.

00:34:51   - But I do feel, I feel like it's not just lip service

00:34:57   from Apple that they took it seriously as a fitness device.

00:35:00   Like, I feel like them billing it as a full one third

00:35:04   of their primary use cases for it,

00:35:06   they're totally serious about it.

00:35:08   Like could not be more serious

00:35:10   that it's not just a watch that happens

00:35:13   to do some of the fitness stuff haphazardly,

00:35:15   like they are dead serious about,

00:35:17   even if the main thing you're looking for

00:35:21   is a fitness tracking device,

00:35:23   Apple Watch is the thing that you should,

00:35:25   is something you should consider.

00:35:27   - Yeah, and that's something I shared in my review.

00:35:31   I felt when I started tackling this device,

00:35:33   like you sort of have to make it your own

00:35:35   and it is very confusing to me at a lot of points.

00:35:39   There's so much going on.

00:35:40   And one of the things I knew I wanted it to be

00:35:42   was a fitness tracker,

00:35:43   both as sort of like a everyday fitness tracker

00:35:47   throughout my day,

00:35:48   but also for these exercise classes

00:35:51   that I do a couple of times a week

00:35:52   and have gotten really into.

00:35:54   So like I really wanted to road test it in those

00:35:57   and I felt like, yeah, this thing's great.

00:35:59   And that's ultimately why I'm gonna buy the sport

00:36:01   because I actually, again, yesterday went to

00:36:03   another class and just loved having it on, loved having sort of a baseline and knowing

00:36:08   now as I collect more and more data where I'm sort of working hard or not hard.

00:36:14   And that's, I mean, that's again about the potential.

00:36:16   I think there's a lot Apple could really do with that information.

00:36:19   The activity app to me seems like a very, very basic Gen 1 product.

00:36:24   And whether Apple decides to use that data or some other third party, there's a lot

00:36:29   of potential there.

00:36:31   The joys of urban living.

00:36:32   Yeah, you like that?

00:36:34   I have it a lot.

00:36:36   I live on a street where the ambulances go by all the time.

00:36:38   So the talk show is usually riddled with ambulances.

00:36:42   One of the...

00:36:43   Yeah, well, look, New York, we have not been able to open the windows here for months.

00:36:47   And so the window is open and I'm not closing it.

00:36:50   But yeah, it's amazing.

00:36:51   I mean, yeah, it's happy to say I can actually live a decent life right now in New York without

00:36:57   it being freezing cold.

00:37:00   open our windows like with the temperature we're like people in California would would

00:37:05   be like wearing coats. Right right in the heat up. I think some of the interesting stuff

00:37:11   that Apple has done so I know the biggest knock against this the first Apple Watch is

00:37:18   the lack of or from a fitness perspective is the lack of GPS. People who run want GPS

00:37:23   tracking people who cycle definitely want GPS tracking. And I have friends who are serious

00:37:29   about both things and they use you know whatever devices they do use they do

00:37:33   things where they get like a map that shows them exactly where they went at

00:37:36   what pace and that's important to them and anything that doesn't have GPS isn't

00:37:41   gonna replace what they've already got and that means that they're stuck still

00:37:45   carrying their iPhone around with them and if you're already carrying your

00:37:48   iPhone around for your cycling or for your running then what's the point of

00:37:51   even having to watch it doesn't doesn't make a difference well there's some

00:37:54   little things right it's gonna give you a much it's gonna give you a heartbeat

00:37:57   heartbeat monitoring that you don't get from the phone. But

00:38:02   that's definitely a knock. But they've tried to do the way

00:38:05   they've explained and I don't know how accurate it is, but

00:38:06   that if you go for a run with your phone a couple times, and

00:38:12   it knows how tall you are, you've entered in your height

00:38:14   and your weight. It kind of gets a sense of your stride, you do a

00:38:18   workout, you say I'm going to go for a run and you do it with

00:38:21   your phone and it has GPS, then you can start doing it without

00:38:25   your phone and it extrapolates it knows well we know what it you know his stride

00:38:30   is and we know how tall he is how much he weighs and so it makes some guesses

00:38:34   it's still not going to give you a map without GPS but it's going to give you a

00:38:37   much better sense of the distance that you've gone

00:38:39   yeah and I found that to be pretty accurate after I'd gone for like last I

00:38:43   mean the week of testing this thing and all the craziness I like was basically

00:38:48   going for like two runs a day plus a spinning class which was just insane and

00:38:53   And I found one of the runs I did,

00:38:56   I just sort of knew how long the path was.

00:38:59   And so when I just took the watch on the run,

00:39:03   and it's this experience I have talked about now

00:39:05   in a number of podcasts and talked about in the review,

00:39:08   just took the watch for a run,

00:39:09   it pretty much very, it was very, very close to saying

00:39:13   that it was a two mile run, which I knew it pretty much was.

00:39:16   And I thought that experience was great

00:39:20   because I had just left with the watch.

00:39:22   I preloaded the watch with a playlist,

00:39:24   which was a little bit of a clunky experience,

00:39:26   but I got it to work.

00:39:27   I had a Bluetooth headset paired to it,

00:39:30   and then I stopped at Whole Foods,

00:39:32   bought a coffee and water, and ran home,

00:39:34   which was like just this really freeing experience

00:39:37   because I actually hate having my phone with me when I run.

00:39:40   - Same here, same here.

00:39:42   - Yeah, I mean, I even said at the piece,

00:39:44   I was like, what I think the Apple Watch can disrupt,

00:39:46   like working out as if like what the iPod did

00:39:50   when we had to run with disk, you know?

00:39:52   like it was we used to have to run with these clunky things

00:39:55   and yes, it's crazy like, oh, yeah, we're complaining

00:39:57   about a phone we have to hold or put on our arm,

00:39:59   but it is, it's annoying.

00:40:01   So yeah, that was like a great experience for me.

00:40:05   - I think that a Discman might be the last portable Sony

00:40:08   product that I've ever bought, I think.

00:40:11   And I remember being so happy with it because it didn't skip

00:40:14   that Sony had done this remarkable engineering

00:40:16   that you could go running with a spinning CD

00:40:19   and it didn't skip, which was amazing at the time.

00:40:21   - You'd have those crazy plastic things on the side,

00:40:24   you'd like enclose it.

00:40:26   - I remember reading about it.

00:40:28   This is pre-daring fireball, way pre-daring.

00:40:30   I mean, this must've been late 90s or something,

00:40:31   but I remember reading about how they did it

00:40:33   and it was pretty cool.

00:40:34   It was a little bit of buffering

00:40:35   and a little bit of like shock absorption,

00:40:38   to keep the thing on, but it was a crazy achievement.

00:40:42   But yeah, I mean, even so, even though it didn't skip,

00:40:46   it was a crazy large device to have to be saddled with

00:40:49   while going for a run.

00:40:51   - Right, yeah.

00:40:53   - And the phone still feels that way.

00:40:54   - The phone feels that way.

00:40:55   I mean, yeah, it's like,

00:40:58   I mean, it does sound like a first world problem for sure,

00:41:01   but it's just nice to have both hands.

00:41:04   And like, I mean, also this is the first time

00:41:07   I really started running with the Bluetooth headset

00:41:10   that actually stuck in like in my ears.

00:41:12   I've been using these beats.

00:41:14   What are they called?

00:41:15   Power beats.

00:41:16   - I think I got the same ones.

00:41:17   Do they have a red cable?

00:41:19   They do.

00:41:20   That's the ones I got those.

00:41:21   Yeah, I mean, I feel like a little bit of a douchebag when I run with them.

00:41:25   But you know,

00:41:26   you always look like I mean, there's no way to look good.

00:41:27   I always look like a douchebag.

00:41:29   You're right.

00:41:30   There's nothing you can do that to not look stupid when you're running.

00:41:34   I mean, you know, right?

00:41:36   Everybody's wearing tight clothes, and you got something in your ears.

00:41:38   Now I got the same one speech.

00:41:40   The only thing I don't like about him is the latency and then but I did the research beforehand

00:41:44   and everybody says they all have the latency.

00:41:46   Yeah, exactly.

00:41:47   Exactly. I mean and like the battery life is really good on them. I haven't charged it for like two weeks

00:41:51   Like a week and a half now. I mean, I guess granted I've only five really set five

00:41:55   It's gotta be more than that is it I don't know it's a fifth one I've heard

00:42:00   Yeah, I mean so my one of my frustrations with notifications is that if I was using mail on my computer

00:42:07   I wouldn't be getting as many

00:42:09   Right because if I'm open if I have mail open on my iPhone and I'm looking at emails

00:42:16   I don't get them on my phone on my watch as I or at least they don't they fade to the background

00:42:22   You know on my laptop. I use Outlook and they don't write because it's not hooked up to the the

00:42:29   Right. I message whatever

00:42:32   I do think it works. I think that the running with the or you know

00:42:38   I've gone for walks without the phone and with the Bluetooth

00:42:41   And it's freeing it's definitely freeing and and in addition to that and again

00:42:45   this has nothing to do with the watch in particular but it just happened to you

00:42:49   know is the thing that was like well I've got it to test it I have to have

00:42:51   Bluetooth head you know earbuds so I'll buy some finally break down and buy some

00:42:56   it would be just as true if I didn't have the watch but it is it is as

00:43:00   freeing as I expected not to have a cable connecting me to from my ears to

00:43:04   the thing and while working out it's you know or running or whatever it's it's

00:43:09   definitely it it feels like the future they've got to get that somehow

00:43:11   how somebody's got to invent something to get the latency down there.

00:43:14   Yeah, I mean, I think the GPS thing not having it in the watch, you know, the Microsoft band

00:43:21   has GPS, and that's what kills the battery.

00:43:26   You know, already the battery life is it takes a big hit when you're working out with this

00:43:31   thing on.

00:43:32   Yeah, and it's to me, it's exactly like analogous to the original iPhone not having 3g, which

00:43:39   which was, you know, clearly a lot of the top flight phones in 2007, we're all coming

00:43:43   out with three G and the iPhone didn't. And Apple, I, you know, it was one of the cases

00:43:48   where they were, they just said why they said, well, you know, it would kill the battery.

00:43:53   You know, we don't, we couldn't, we don't, you know, we don't have a way to do it in

00:43:57   a way that sustains the battery life we were hoping for yet. So clearly, it's going to

00:44:02   come I mean, I would say of all the things people are thinking about for future Apple

00:44:07   watch revisions, GPS I think is a sure thing, but it's just a question of battery life.

00:44:13   Right.

00:44:14   Yeah.

00:44:15   So you had, here's another thing from your review that was interesting to me, is that

00:44:19   on the days that you exercised, your watch's battery died.

00:44:23   Yeah.

00:44:24   I thought that was interesting.

00:44:25   I didn't have a single day where the watch's battery died.

00:44:28   But I have not been working out in any way.

00:44:33   Right.

00:44:34   So I tried to divide up the testing because I knew the last couple of days would be really

00:44:41   not a good indicator of normal life because I'd be shooting video with it so much.

00:44:46   But the first three days I basically made it to the end of the day within the, I'd

00:44:54   say 15% mark and I was fine by the time I went to bed.

00:44:58   But a day I did two workouts, it was pretty much in power reserve mode by 8 p.m.

00:45:07   And one of the things I did during my cycling workout was I did keep the screen on for quite

00:45:12   a bit of time.

00:45:13   And so that really took a hit on it.

00:45:16   The reason I did that was one of the things you talked about in your review, because my

00:45:22   arms are on the cycling bike and I can't, like doing a glance at it doesn't turn the

00:45:30   screen on. I basically kept the screen on for most of the time. I guess I was most of

00:45:34   the time either tapping it or it was just staying on because it knew it was doing something.

00:45:41   But yeah, because I liked having an eye on it to see sort of the accuracy of it.

00:45:46   Pete L

00:45:46   six but yeah what six here's my battery life from the first few days tuesday didn't apply because

00:45:56   that was when i swapped i had to swap the first one they gave me out with the second one because

00:46:01   the taptic engine wasn't working so that doesn't count because i finished i finished the day with

00:46:05   like 70 but it i'd gotten a new watch at like three o'clock uh wednesday 42 thursday five but

00:46:13   But I was up until four in the morning,

00:46:14   and that was a day that I had really, really,

00:46:17   just spent the whole day playing with the watch.

00:46:19   And I never put it into power reserve mode.

00:46:22   I don't know if you can set it

00:46:25   to do it automatically or not,

00:46:26   but the way it's by default is when it gets to 10%,

00:46:29   it gives you a tap and a scary warning,

00:46:33   and it says you're down, your battery's almost out,

00:46:35   do you wanna go to power reserve mode?

00:46:36   And I said no.

00:46:38   And it still only got to five when I went to sleep.

00:46:40   Friday it was over 50%, Saturday 37%,

00:46:45   Sunday which was Easter, which I spent with family,

00:46:50   but I used it a lot, I was testing it,

00:46:52   so it was down to 27%.

00:46:54   Oh, I think I used it for driving directions on Sunday too.

00:46:57   All of that-- - What brightness

00:46:58   did you keep it at?

00:46:59   - I haven't changed the brightness,

00:47:01   so it's at the default.

00:47:02   - So it's in the middle. - Right.

00:47:04   - Yeah, yeah, I mean--

00:47:07   - Now, here's the big difference.

00:47:08   you have a 38 millimeter one and I have a 42.

00:47:10   And Apple on their website even says

00:47:14   that their listed battery life is for the 38.

00:47:17   And then they say in small print at the bottom of the page

00:47:20   that the 42 gets longer battery life for the obvious reason.

00:47:24   - That's really, I had not even heard that before.

00:47:27   That's crazy, yeah.

00:47:28   That's crazy 'cause I don't, you know,

00:47:31   Jeff Fowler who also reviewed it for the journal,

00:47:33   I think he also said the same, you know,

00:47:36   last through the day.

00:47:37   But yeah, for most days for me, that week of testing, I was down for the count around

00:47:44   11 by bedtime, 1130, and then the days that I had done some working out had died much

00:47:50   earlier.

00:47:51   And you know, again, during that workout period, which for me usually is a 45-minute spin class,

00:47:59   which is looking at the heart rate all the time, and I had the screen mostly on.

00:48:04   So if you go to Apple Watch's website and go to technology, then it says, "So we gave

00:48:11   it a battery that lasts up to 18 hours," and then there's a footnote.

00:48:14   So here's the footnote.

00:48:15   "Testing conducted by Apple in March 2015 using pre-production Apple Watch and software

00:48:20   paired with an iPhone using pre-production software."

00:48:24   I think what they mean is it was using iOS 8.3, the phone.

00:48:30   life varies by use and configuration actual results will vary actually they

00:48:36   don't say anything about the 42 here hmm I read that somewhere somewhere I read

00:48:41   that the 42 gets longer battery life and it makes sense I think because I think

00:48:45   the battery is bigger compared to the 38 then the screen is bigger in terms of

00:48:50   needing more energy to light up the screen right you know I mean even though

00:48:55   Even on their site they say, you know, six point five hours for workout

00:48:58   Yeah, I mean it's not abnormal that if you work out more it's tapping all those sensors. It's gonna it's gonna take a hit

00:49:06   But in short I found that concerned pre-release concerns that the thing wasn't going to get through the day was not an issue

00:49:15   Yeah, same here

00:49:18   but on the other hand a lot of people have been asking me does your phone have worse battery life and

00:49:23   I think I didn't do any kind of testing on that and I was also I've been playing with periscope so much and periscope is a

00:49:30   battery killer

00:49:33   I

00:49:35   Anecdotally though. I kind of feel like my iPhone has been getting worse battery life

00:49:38   But I'm still getting through the day without charging

00:49:41   See I never really get through the day without charging I talk on the phone a lot

00:49:46   So I'm not a good person to ask and are you are you in Manhattan most weekdays?

00:49:51   Yeah, so there you go. I mean and I've been in New York a couple times the last a couple weeks and that last week

00:49:57   or two

00:49:58   Because I was in New York to get the phone

00:50:01   I mean to get the watch itself and then I was there over the weekend to see a Yankees game

00:50:08   so I've been in all in and you know you

00:50:11   Manhattan is notoriously bad for your battery on your phone just because you have such a hard time getting a signal and the buildings block

00:50:18   and et cetera, et cetera.

00:50:19   - Right, oh, and I'm the one, like if I'm on a subway,

00:50:21   I'm usually like constantly looking

00:50:23   for the little patch of service.

00:50:24   - I do the same thing.

00:50:26   - Yeah, okay, right here, right here.

00:50:28   - Hurry up and reload Twitter.

00:50:31   - Right, yeah, exactly.

00:50:33   So yeah, I talk on the phone a lot.

00:50:36   That's why I say like I never make it

00:50:38   through the whole day for a charge

00:50:39   because if I work from home, I'm on the phone all the time.

00:50:42   Yeah, not the best task.

00:50:45   Yeah so it's but you know I think if anything though that most people can expect to get

00:50:52   through the day with their Apple watch.

00:50:54   Yeah absolutely absolutely I mean and especially like I mean there's so much you can do to

00:51:00   I think make it go longer it's actually a really good experiment I should try like how

00:51:04   long turning down the brightness turning on a lot off of a couple of notifications how

00:51:11   long you could go with it I bet you could get into you know a second full day.

00:51:15   I don't know. It's you know, but at least it's a day how annoying do you think it is to have to charge it every night?

00:51:20   I thought about this. I mean

00:51:25   The question for me is like what would I what would it if it was really serving a purpose at night for me? I

00:51:33   think

00:51:36   That would be like the big annoyance

00:51:37   like if I really thought oh this was great for sleep tracking or I

00:51:42   I really loved how it woke me up in the morning

00:51:44   with a gentle vibration on my wrist or something like that.

00:51:47   But it doesn't do those things.

00:51:49   So I don't mind taking it off.

00:51:51   I mean, is it annoying to have another charger?

00:51:53   Yes, I mean, between this and the MacBook

00:51:56   that I was reviewing,

00:51:57   it's like enough with the chargers already.

00:52:00   But yeah, it's not a huge pain to me.

00:52:02   - I feel like I almost cheated

00:52:05   'cause when I swapped out the first one

00:52:07   that didn't work for the second one,

00:52:09   Apple just said, "If you wanna keep the other charger,

00:52:11   "you can keep the charger."

00:52:12   So I kept the charger. - Oh, that's the classic move.

00:52:13   - So I have to, and I just left it in my bag.

00:52:16   And I, you know, because I was testing it, it's on my mind.

00:52:19   But so when I went to New York for the weekend again,

00:52:22   I didn't have to even think about getting it

00:52:24   from my bedroom and packing it.

00:52:25   But I do think most people would want to, I would want to,

00:52:31   I'd want one that I keep at my bed,

00:52:32   and I would want one that I keep in my travel bag

00:52:35   so that I don't have to remember.

00:52:38   Like, I just keep lightning chargers in my travel bag

00:52:41   So I never ever have to worry that when I leave the house for a trip that I've remembered

00:52:46   to pack a charger for my phone.

00:52:49   And I feel like you're going to want the same thing for the watch.

00:52:52   And the other thing I've been thinking about is it comes with a little square 5 volt AC

00:53:00   adapter that the phone comes with.

00:53:03   It seems to charge like a mostly empty watch in about an hour and a half to get a full

00:53:07   charge.

00:53:08   I haven't really timed it like from a completely dead phone.

00:53:11   I did let me pull up my notes on that. It took me about two hours. Let me pull up my

00:53:17   first day I timed that it was about two hours.

00:53:19   And that was from completely dead?

00:53:22   Basically completely dead like power reserve. Actually that day was completely dead. Let's

00:53:29   see if I can pull up my notes on that.

00:53:32   Well the thing that occurred to me though is that you have to have an iPhone if you

00:53:39   use Apple Watch. They're very explicit about it. It's it at the you know, who knows years

00:53:44   from now what you'll be able to do just with the watch but for now, it is it's not useless.

00:53:50   It keeps the time and you can use Apple Pay without the the phone being in Bluetooth range.

00:53:56   But most of the stuff certainly all the notifications anything that's incoming has to come from

00:54:01   an internet connection from your paired iPhone. So if you're going to go somewhere with your

00:54:05   you have to have your iPhone with you. So I'm kind of I kind of wish that they had shipped it with some kind of charger

00:54:11   that had two USB ports so that you would only need one thing stuck in the wall, but you could charge both your phone and your

00:54:19   Watch because as it stands you're you know, most of us it it's another device you have to charge every night

00:54:26   I mean most of us know this is the same way I feel about the MacBook charger and here's the thing for me

00:54:31   I've and I noticed this I noticed it this weekend again

00:54:34   At the hotel we stayed at in New York on my side of the bed. There was one open AC adapter

00:54:39   and so, you know to plug in two things bedside I

00:54:43   Needed to like unplug their lamp or unplug the hotel's alarm clock or something

00:54:49   Or set up one of the things to charge, you know away from the bed away from bedside

00:54:55   Yeah, no, this is exactly how I felt about the MacBook chargers

00:54:59   Like, could you just put one more USB port in here, like, or something?

00:55:04   So I'm not walking around because there's no other ports on the computer.

00:55:08   Um, and obviously I could get the $80 dongle or whatever, but if it just had

00:55:14   another port on that charging brick for my iPhone or my Apple watch or my iPad.

00:55:19   My iMac.

00:55:21   Like when you're on a working trip and you have a Mac book, it is, to me, it's a very

00:55:25   common move which is just plug in the MacBook then plug other devices into USB ports on

00:55:31   the thing and it's you know one thing is in the wall but you're charging multiple

00:55:34   devices.

00:55:35   I do that all the time.

00:55:36   Yeah, pass-through charging or whatever you want to call it.

00:55:40   Yeah right, yeah use it as a charging hub I mean yeah, yeah I mean I do kind of wish

00:55:47   that little metal piece on the thing that looks like a heart rate monitor, the charging

00:55:53   thing. You know, that thing falls off my nightstand a lot. Neil Ibertal mentioned in his review

00:55:59   he wished he had a, they had a stand. I agree with that. Wish there was some better way

00:56:03   to prop up the watch on the nightstand.

00:56:06   Yeah, I, yeah, I agree. I know

00:56:10   It just keeps falling for me, like I keep every, you know, even if I string it around

00:56:15   the back, I guess that's what I should do, but it just keeps falling off the front. And

00:56:19   also again, like you said, I've been porting this thing all over the place.

00:56:22   Alright, I found it, I will put it in the show notes.

00:56:25   There is a page, it's apple.com/watch/battery.html and that's where they say that all the testing

00:56:33   was conducted on a 38 millimeter and this is directly quote from Apple, "Apple Watch

00:56:38   battery performance claims are based on test results from the 38 millimeter Apple Watch.

00:56:42   A 42 millimeter Apple Watch typically experiences longer battery life."

00:56:47   So there you have it.

00:56:48   Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, given the surface space.

00:56:51   Well, and I think it's exactly like with the iPhone six and the six plus the six plus does

00:56:58   have a bigger screen.

00:56:59   But it also gets better, better, bigger battery life, because there's it.

00:57:04   It's just more important to have a bigger, bigger battery is more important than the

00:57:09   detriment of a bigger screen to light up.

00:57:12   Right.

00:57:13   Right.

00:57:14   See, yeah.

00:57:15   So I pulled up my notes here.

00:57:17   I started charging the watch at 7.33 PM and it finished charging at 9.20 PM.

00:57:24   So just under two hours is what I had.

00:57:27   My sixth grade science experiment, we had to do a science fair experiment in sixth grade

00:57:31   and I did mine on batteries.

00:57:34   And the theory I wanted to test was, okay, everybody knows alkaline batteries last longer,

00:57:39   but are they cost effective?

00:57:41   Do you actually, is it worth your money to spend for the alkaline or just buy the cheap

00:57:46   ones and use more of them. And so to conduct the experiment, I put them into a standard

00:57:52   ever-ready flashlight. It's like that plastic flashlight everybody has. And the problem

00:58:01   was they all, even the cheap batteries, would run the flashlight for like 20-some hours.

00:58:08   And so it kept dying while I wasn't looking at it, or while I was sleeping. So my parents

00:58:14   started getting really mad because just to get like one set of data to actually

00:58:19   notice when the light was burned out it took me like like three or four tries

00:58:23   each and I can imagine the same thing like trying to test something like that

00:58:27   it's like you have to keep looking at it to make sure if it's fully charged and

00:58:31   if you miss it and you have to start all over again it's true I did have notes up

00:58:35   till 80% and it was at 80% at 838 also the results of my experiment were that

00:58:44   that Alkaline batteries were worth the money.

00:58:46   So now I feel like getting it out on the podcast

00:58:52   makes all the effort I did 30 years ago.

00:58:55   - We're going to buy those batteries

00:58:57   and see if I can put them into my Apple Watch.

00:58:59   - Let me take another break.

00:59:01   And it seems like a good time for a break

00:59:03   and we can keep going on Apple.

00:59:04   I wanna get to the MacBook too,

00:59:05   but I feel like there's still so much more

00:59:07   to cover with Apple Watch.

00:59:08   And I'm not gonna get another chance

00:59:11   to talk to someone else who's had it for a while.

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01:01:54   Now we've got a Father's Day, yeah, this is great

01:01:59   It's just like I'm just gonna come on to this podcast every time I got to buy gifts

01:02:06   I've or listen, I guess I could listen. Ah

01:02:09   We haven't even talked about the software on the watch and I feel and I've I've barely wrote about it

01:02:14   I saw I like this. I have a couple more thousand words still in draft. I'm working on it's coming out soon. I

01:02:19   It's

01:02:22   There's so much it is such an ambitious 1.0 product and I feel like

01:02:27   It's not even there are things to complain about and there are things to praise

01:02:32   It's you know it and some of the things to complain about are clearly just 1.0 issues some of them

01:02:38   I think there may be deeper design questions

01:02:41   But it's just so expansive. It is really really it's it's the hardest product review. I've ever written without question I

01:02:49   Agree with you, and we we had the the ability of the pleasure of having two

01:02:56   Reviewers which was a good way to break it up

01:03:00   But still there's so much that could be written about this thing. Yeah, you guys had to and recode had to

01:03:06   But yeah

01:03:08   it definitely I think helped to get comprehensive coverage from one publication because I

01:03:13   Really felt like I there's just no way I could cover it all in a week

01:03:17   So, let's just start here's one of the complaints from your review I'm gonna well, I don't know here's what I'll say

01:03:25   It's just a line that I noted you wrote I love that you can customize the colors and details of the watch faces

01:03:30   Though I do wish you could personalize it more with photos or backgrounds

01:03:34   And I have felt the same way like I've felt like this it seems like it's it's in contradiction

01:03:42   Where at one point I've I felt like I can't believe how much fun

01:03:47   I'm having just playing with the watch faces and getting them set up just the way I want and then like an hour later

01:03:53   I would think boy. I wish I could really custom. I wish I could customize this more

01:03:56   Yeah, I know and it's like I kind of kept thinking it was like do I want to have a photo of you know

01:04:04   I don't have a child now. I have a puppy

01:04:06   So maybe this is a good example would I want to have that on my watch like it's now my home screen on my phone

01:04:12   But is that something I would want to have on my wrist all day

01:04:15   And I sort of coded yeah like or at least to have the deeper background ability, right?

01:04:22   Like I love play I even on my phone. I frequently change my background on my phone either on the lock screen or on the home screen

01:04:30   Why can't I do that here? I?

01:04:32   Think it's a little I've been thinking about it a lot and I feel like

01:04:37   they I

01:04:40   Don't think they're gonna give it to us I don't think they're gonna let us customize it more

01:04:46   I think they might add more built-in

01:04:48   Watch races, but I don't think there's going to be a third-party

01:04:52   Ability like and certainly the current third party. I don't know if there would be a third party, but I think

01:04:58   I could see down the line them giving the ability for us to change something from our camera

01:05:06   I mean the photos app is right there and then it's right in here like a little Ken Burns effect, right?

01:05:10   Right, right, right do a little at seven

01:05:15   Do a little Ken Burns effect. I've thought of this is a really important one iTunes. It's an iTunes alert

01:05:20   It's really important new new artists on iTunes. All right, let's hold that thought because I do want to I want to bring up

01:05:27   This whole too many notifications issue. Let's let's get to that next but let's talk keep talking about watch faces

01:05:32   I don't know

01:05:33   I feel like but I feel like they're not gonna do third-party watch faces because I feel like they

01:05:38   They want all of the watch faces to still be within what they consider the Apple watch brand

01:05:44   hand. And it makes me wonder about something like the idea of pick one of your favorite

01:05:51   photos and let that be the background is right there on the line because then obviously they're

01:05:59   not going to have control over the photo but they would still have complete control over

01:06:03   the typography and placement of what's on top of it the time the date whatever the style

01:06:08   right like where where it goes but what if what like here's a night this is I'm like

01:06:13   now I'm going to design the watch face.

01:06:15   So my favorite one is the modular one.

01:06:17   Well, that's what I wear most days during the week.

01:06:21   And then, you know, I like to change it around.

01:06:23   But yeah, I like to keep playing with the design of the modular one.

01:06:26   And so what if you could put your photo in like a corner or something?

01:06:31   And it would just be like an avatar.

01:06:33   Yeah, or like, it was just a clean design where you had the time and then like, you

01:06:39   know above or below sort of like Instagram's new layout app right where you could sort

01:06:45   of split the screen a little bit or have it in a corner or something. I think they could

01:06:49   design it really well is what I'm saying I think. But still within like the constraint

01:06:54   of a structure that they've defined. Yeah. I could see that. Fine. I mean my guess is

01:07:00   exactly what you're saying. Johnny Ive didn't want his very very cleanly perfectly designed

01:07:06   watch faces to be tarnished by a photo of, I don't know, someone's ugly uncle or something.

01:07:15   I or you know, or mostly just that they didn't want us to, to be playing around with it too

01:07:20   much.

01:07:21   I think they do want you playing around with it.

01:07:22   But it's within these constraints of what they've defined as each of these watch faces.

01:07:27   Now there's another angle here, which is technical, which is that the watch, clearly the display

01:07:33   is the biggest battery killer in the watch.

01:07:35   And they're very aggressive about having it turn on and off

01:07:38   as aggressively as possible.

01:07:39   That it's off most of the time, you tilt your wrist.

01:07:42   I just did it as I said it and it was perfect.

01:07:44   It was actually, it turned on exactly as I looked at it.

01:07:47   Could not have turned on at a, just did it again.

01:07:50   So right, however I'm sitting right now

01:07:52   is perfect posture for using Apple Watch.

01:07:55   But then it goes off in six seconds,

01:07:56   if you haven't tapped it.

01:07:57   And they're very aggressive with it.

01:07:59   And it's an OLED screen.

01:08:01   the first apple device with an oled screen and oleds

01:08:05   you know reason for being i think is that

01:08:08   it gets really deep blacks and the blacks don't require power that only

01:08:12   requires power to light up pixels in a non black color

01:08:16   and the watch overall is dominated by black backgrounds

01:08:20   and part of it is an aesthetic idea

01:08:23   because it really does make

01:08:25   the display blend in

01:08:27   to the entire sapphire or on the sport watch glass, you know, thing it in its own in most

01:08:33   lighting it's it's beautiful. In bright daylight, you can definitely see where the display is.

01:08:40   So it's aesthetic, but it's also technical where these black backgrounds absolutely increase

01:08:45   the battery life. And if you had a photo in the background, it would have some kind of

01:08:49   detrimental effect on that.

01:08:53   That's a really interesting point.

01:08:54   Even the fancy butterflies and jellyfish.

01:08:58   Yeah, the background.

01:09:01   It's still a lot of black and they kind of fade in.

01:09:05   Yeah.

01:09:06   So I can't help but think that that might be one of the reasons they don't have that.

01:09:10   That to me seems like an obvious watch face.

01:09:13   How much black?

01:09:14   The most colorful one is Mickey.

01:09:16   Yeah, I would definitely say so.

01:09:18   The other one that can be colorful, I don't know if you played with this, but if you go

01:09:22   to the chronograph watch face and you've customized the dial you can change the dial to be like

01:09:29   a light cream color. So go to chronograph, go to color and then go over to the third

01:09:38   no not third it's the middle one where it says color and if you go down there's two

01:09:46   Two light ones.

01:09:47   There's a white background and then there's like a cream, a creamy like, I don't know

01:09:52   what you would call it, which is the most lit up.

01:09:55   I think that's the most lit up you can make the display.

01:09:59   It's probably close with Mickey.

01:10:03   But the other thing is I don't think they look good.

01:10:05   I think the chronograph looks better when it has a dark background.

01:10:09   Yeah, Mickey might be the most.

01:10:12   This banana pudding color is ugly.

01:10:14   Yeah, I think that they're trying to mimic, I think it's the closest they've gotten to

01:10:18   skeuomorphism where I feel like they're trying to make that creamy one look like an aged

01:10:23   dial from an analog watch. Like a lot of old people who collect analog watches, the older

01:10:29   ones, things that used to be white turn to a sort of creamy, they call it a patina. And

01:10:35   it's a really pleasing effect, you know, aesthetically, but it's, I don't know, somehow it falls flat

01:10:41   on a light up screen.

01:10:43   I think but I think that that one of the things and I know it's another one of

01:10:47   the three things that Apple says the thing is it is a great timepiece or

01:10:51   whatever I think people are gonna have a blast I had a lot of fun I know it

01:10:54   sounds stupid I had a lot of fun I still have fun dicking around dicking around

01:10:59   with what I've got showing on the watch here's an example so I got the watch and

01:11:07   it's funny because I met with Apple while the old conference in Ireland was

01:11:11   going on to get the review unit and I was supposed to be there

01:11:14   speaking and I couldn't because I can't fly with this gas

01:11:17   bubble in my eye. But I was scheduled to do a remote

01:11:21   appearance with this. Oh, I'm gonna forget the name of it. But

01:11:25   I'm sure you've seen it. It's this. It's like a segue, little

01:11:30   segue type thing that you mount an iPad on and then you can

01:11:33   control it. It's like a remote telepresence robot.

01:11:38   I have oh yeah yeah yeah right when it like the ones they have another commercials we

01:11:43   don't have one in our office but I've seen it in other offices it sounds silly but it

01:11:47   was actually kind of fun and I got to like drive it around the room at at all and I came

01:11:53   out on stage and said a few words to the crowd and accidentally it's called double robotics

01:12:00   Yes, double robotics.

01:12:05   But anyway, I had a scheduled appearance over remotely in Ireland and it was awesome.

01:12:13   I thought it was so great that I could put on my watch face the time in that time zone,

01:12:19   just up in the corner.

01:12:21   And so it totally alleviated my anxiety that I was going to botch it.

01:12:26   And to further confuse it, it was daylight savings time weekend in the United Kingdom,

01:12:31   which is different than when it was here.

01:12:34   So everything was going to switch on Sunday night or something like that.

01:12:38   So instead of being like plus four, they were going to switch to plus five.

01:12:41   I just put the time up in my corner in Ireland and I knew that I wasn't going to be late.

01:12:48   Little thing.

01:12:49   And then once I was done with that, I had no concern about what time it was in England

01:12:52   anymore.

01:12:53   turn that off and switch it to my fitness tracking or something.

01:12:57   Yeah, no, that's why I love that modular display because I can fit so much info on

01:13:01   there, which could be distracting to people, but I love it and I keep changing the top

01:13:07   left-hand corner to either California time, like you mentioned, or to the sunset time.

01:13:14   Yeah, that seems useful.

01:13:15   I might actually use that now.

01:13:17   I've been meaning to try that.

01:13:20   It sounds corny, but I also like change them based on my outfit.

01:13:24   I know a lot of people thought I was being super sarcastic in that video, and I guess

01:13:28   I kind of was, but I do like that either the butterfly or the flower watch face for when

01:13:35   I go out.

01:13:36   Yeah, I could totally see that.

01:13:39   Just because you want less, like in the daytime you've got meetings, you've got things,

01:13:42   you really do want to see your appointment.

01:13:44   And then if you're just going out at night and you're going to have dinner, you really

01:13:46   don't need all that crap.

01:13:48   a couple of days there. I was changing the color of the modular font to the color of

01:13:54   the shirt I was wearing. Felt super corny, but it was fun.

01:13:58   Yeah, I don't know. It's, it's if you can't, if you're so technically minded that you can't

01:14:03   imagine that it's fun to do things like change the second hand on your watch based on your

01:14:07   whims, then it's, you're not going to see the appeal of this device compared to other

01:14:11   ones. I do. I think it was kind of fun. Right? I like changing the second. I like the blue

01:14:16   secondhand I don't know why I will admit I don't really use you don't use the

01:14:23   analog ones see that to me is a big deal and because I've all I've worn an

01:14:29   analog dial watch for so many years now my brain naturally understands time only

01:14:36   by the hands and so if I look at a digital watch meaning digital like it's

01:14:42   showing the digits because I feel like that the word digital watch is actually

01:14:47   confusing it's like it requires a long discretion digression but it's like it

01:14:51   means two different things one it means an electronic watch that is digitally

01:14:57   driven in terms of how it keeps time as opposed to an analog watch which is

01:15:01   using gears and purely mechanical nothing electronic but digital watch

01:15:06   also can mean a watch that is showing the time through numeric digits as

01:15:12   as opposed through analog hands.

01:15:15   And to me, there's nothing at all false

01:15:19   in terms of like this whole movement away

01:15:22   from skeuomorphism about having a digital watch

01:15:26   in terms of it's being electronic using an analog dial

01:15:30   in terms of showing time with the hands.

01:15:33   It's just a different way of displaying the information.

01:15:35   And when you have these analog hands on the Apple Watch,

01:15:38   they don't have any drop shadows or 3D effects

01:15:41   or anything like that, it's very, very flat.

01:15:44   And I think very natural, but that to me is how I tell time.

01:15:49   And it's also why, like in my review,

01:15:51   where I mentioned that when I'm at my keyboard,

01:15:53   I'll often glance at my wrist to see the time.

01:15:56   And everybody's like, why, you know, and I even said,

01:15:58   yes, I know the time is up in the corner of my Mac,

01:16:00   but it just doesn't make sense to me.

01:16:02   In like, just without having to even think about it way

01:16:07   that it does when I glance at my wrist.

01:16:11   And that's where I think like,

01:16:13   that's one part of the software

01:16:14   I think they have done such a good job at,

01:16:16   because you're talking about these things

01:16:18   that work so well for you personally,

01:16:21   which I could care less about.

01:16:24   I mean, I care about you,

01:16:25   but I don't care about them for me.

01:16:28   And I've found some layouts that just work so well for me.

01:16:31   And I've also worn an analog watch for a long time.

01:16:36   But with this, like it just,

01:16:38   it helps me so much to see my calendar appointments.

01:16:41   And like, for me that's been like,

01:16:45   I can just glance down and I don't,

01:16:48   yes, same sort of thing.

01:16:49   Yes, I get the pop-up notification from Outlook

01:16:52   or whatever on my phone,

01:16:53   but I sort of am able to budget my time better knowing,

01:16:57   okay, I have two more hours

01:16:58   till I have this puppy training class or whatever.

01:17:02   - Yeah, and I can even see,

01:17:04   I think it shows that people at Apple

01:17:07   especially the people you know on the creative team behind it have a very meeting driven culture where there's you know

01:17:14   They're in a big company. They're working at the same time and they have these things like, you know design meetings and stuff like that

01:17:19   I

01:17:21   Think it really shows that the watch

01:17:23   Can be

01:17:26   Set up you can configure it in a way that's really really conducive to that and I can also see why I'll bet you're right

01:17:33   I don't think it's a coincidence that the modular face is the second one. I

01:17:37   I think that for somebody who has a very, frequently has meetings and has a lot of events

01:17:44   on their calendar, that that modular one is really going to be popular.

01:17:48   And I can also see why then you would want the time in a digital form because then you

01:17:55   see the numbers of the current time and you see the numbers of the meeting that's coming

01:17:59   up and you know, hey, it's already 1048 and I've got an 1130.

01:18:05   So anything I want to do, it's got to, you know.

01:18:07   I mean, I'm looking at mine right now, and there's so many numbers.

01:18:10   I mean, and I hate numbers.

01:18:11   It's really funny that I like this one so much.

01:18:14   But like I've got the time, I've got my next appointment, I've got the temperature

01:18:20   outside, I've got the battery life icon, 76 right now, the sun sets at 732, and I

01:18:29   love all that information.

01:18:33   I didn't even notice you could change the color on that one.

01:18:36   Yeah, so I changed it today to purple because I was wearing a purple shirt.

01:18:43   Small things, you know?

01:18:44   Small things.

01:18:45   But yeah, I mean, and as I said, those are the two big things, both telling time and

01:18:51   keeping me on schedule and as a fitness tracker or fitness device where this thing has really

01:18:55   started to play big in my life.

01:18:57   Though over the last week and maybe my piece next week might be on this is sort of about

01:19:01   that notification thing and how I found a good balance in many ways despite the fact

01:19:06   that it's gone off like eight times on this podcast.

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01:23:09   All right, I want to talk about notifications on this thing because I thought that if there's

01:23:14   one thing that I saw across the reviews that to me I didn't get were complaints

01:23:20   from reviewers saying well my risk is keeps pinging pinging pinging and it can

01:23:25   be annoying because they I think it's really easy to filter it and to say I

01:23:29   kind of I one of the things that takes you getting used to is learning what you

01:23:35   have to do from the Apple watch app on your phone and what you can configure on

01:23:39   the watch alone it is a little it takes some getting used to I don't think it's

01:23:43   a complaint, I can see why you can't that why they don't put everything on the watch.

01:23:49   But one of the things that you do from the phone from the Apple Watch app on the phone

01:23:53   is you go to the Apple Watch app, you go to notifications, and then it just lists all

01:23:57   of the apps on your phone that have notifications turned on. And when and then you can turn

01:24:02   off on an app by app basis, whether they go to your watch. And so every time I got something

01:24:07   on my watch that annoyed me, I would just go to my phone, go to that app, turn it off

01:24:11   and say, I don't want that anymore. No more Periscope notifications on my watch. That

01:24:15   was the first thing I did. Like after I parted ways with Apple and I had the review, I think

01:24:23   it took about two minutes for me to just say, all right, Periscope, you're gone.

01:24:28   I had a bunch of things like that. I'm looking through my list now.

01:24:32   I found anything that didn't let me respond, I wanted off. So for example, Tweetbot, direct

01:24:40   I love you know, direct messages are very close to text. So I want notifications for them

01:24:45   It's in fact

01:24:46   The only thing I get notifications from Twitter related just because I know a lot of people have like replies and mentions and stuff like that

01:24:52   But you know it people like yeah, I don't we have too many, you know, where it's just in a weird, you know

01:24:58   The way that we're weird

01:25:00   micro celebrities, you know

01:25:02   It's just it sounds stupid. But I know I get I don't know two or three hundred replies a day

01:25:07   I cannot possibly why I could but I mean it would drive me insane if I got notifications for them

01:25:12   But I thought DMS on my watch were annoying too because I couldn't do anything with them

01:25:17   It's it and you can't really do anything with email either

01:25:22   We can get to that

01:25:23   I find the inclusion of email on Apple watch to be

01:25:27   Bizarre and it seems like something it seems like one of the best apps that they wrote it works incredibly well

01:25:34   And I feel like somebody

01:25:36   Really knocked it out of the park building it, but I don't understand why

01:25:41   Like me why yeah, because you can't reply there is no way to reply to an email

01:25:46   I

01:25:49   Guess I can understand. I you know, I I

01:25:52   Say that I'm being a little bit hyperbolic because I understand that sometimes if you get a really important email

01:25:58   You might want to see it right there on the watch and then you have to do something

01:26:02   But the fact that you then have to do something on the phone

01:26:04   Yeah, I don't know there's certain

01:26:06   It crosses a line that to me it's it's why I never liked wearing my original pebble

01:26:14   Put aside the size of the pebble in the screen or whatever

01:26:17   The thing that always got me with the original pebble was I could never respond

01:26:20   I always had to go back to the phone and every once in a while I'd get you know as I tried it

01:26:24   I'd say like well, I'm glad I saw that on my wrist

01:26:27   But now I have to go to my phone to reply like I reply to text messages using the watch

01:26:32   frequently

01:26:34   It's you do voice or with sometimes some you know, the auto buttons are actually pretty good in some cases

01:26:41   Yeah, they're pretty good

01:26:42   Right, you know and you can set those

01:26:44   yeah, and but the voice works pretty well for me and again that is going to vary by your

01:26:50   You know your current cellular collection connection

01:26:54   But I wrote weeks ago that I have found Siri to be getting a lot better at

01:26:59   dictation at very least in terms of

01:27:03   You know just when you talk to Siri whether it's on the watch or on the phone

01:27:06   The transcription happens faster. It seems to be happening a lot more accurately

01:27:11   And it's really pretty good. It's a little frustrating from the way

01:27:15   Here's the biggest frustration on a watch is there's no text editing

01:27:17   So if it gets it almost right if I dictate a sentence long response via the watch, but it has one

01:27:27   Siri ism whatever you want to call the typos that Siri gives you have to decide whether you scrap the whole thing and start over

01:27:33   Or just let it fly and hope that your correspondent

01:27:37   sympathizes and understands

01:27:40   Right. Yeah, I found it

01:27:42   One thing I did find Siri really helpful with and I know you can't respond to emails

01:27:47   But it is helpful. Like if I get an email that says a company can meet at 2 p.m

01:27:52   I have Siri make that I've done this had Siri make that appointment on my email on my calendar through the watch. I

01:28:00   Yeah, I guess like it would really be nice to be able to respond to those people and say yes

01:28:05   I can make that meeting

01:28:07   I understand why they don't let you respond and they do for texts because texts

01:28:12   Tend to be one sentence at a time and even though right or a word. Yeah, and even though you might send

01:28:19   To some emails. Yes, two o'clock is fine or you know, absolutely or something like that a

01:28:25   Lot of times you don't there's a lot of emails that required even just a few sentences

01:28:31   And once you get to a few sentences the odds of the dictation being perfect are very low and the fact that you can't text

01:28:37   Edit, you know, I'd use the dictation on my phone tons to especially on the East Coast and winter where my hands are cold

01:28:44   I might be outside

01:28:46   And again, that's what made me write the thing a couple of weeks ago about how I've noticed that it's getting better

01:28:50   But the thing with the phone is if there's one stupid mistake in

01:28:55   The what Siri transcribed you can double-click that word

01:28:59   Hit the microphone button again and replace that one word

01:29:03   By you know enunciating much more, you know as clearly as you can what that word was. You can't do that with the watch

01:29:09   And it's like the one downside to that

01:29:14   Yeah, I mean, yeah, I just, in terms of email, I have a lot more frustrations that go way

01:29:23   beyond the reply stuff.

01:29:25   But again, I think that's mostly my frustrations with some of the notification customization

01:29:33   features or lack thereof.

01:29:36   Yeah, I mean, one thing, and I've set up VIP, but to me VIP doesn't go far enough, right?

01:29:48   And this is some of the intelligence that I think Apple stands to learn a lot from Google,

01:29:54   and where I do feel like the missing presence of Google on this device is in Gmail, for

01:30:00   I mean, yes, I do get the notifications that hit,

01:30:04   like I use Inbox, I do get those notifications on my wrist.

01:30:09   And those are usually really helpful.

01:30:11   Usually Inbox is really good at knowing when I like emails

01:30:15   or when I don't like emails.

01:30:16   Surfacing ones from friends and family,

01:30:19   putting the other ones in their other filters.

01:30:21   I don't know, John, if you use it,

01:30:23   but I find it really helpful.

01:30:25   And then in mail, it's just,

01:30:29   There's so many other emails beyond VIP,

01:30:33   those people that I've designated as VIPs

01:30:35   that I want coming to my wrist

01:30:37   and it's just you don't have that level of granularity.

01:30:41   You can't, mail doesn't know well enough

01:30:46   which people I'd like to respond to,

01:30:48   which emails are important to me.

01:30:51   - Yeah, I think Steven Levy had a piece just yesterday

01:30:56   where at his back channel thing at Medium

01:30:59   where he talked about like that we need

01:31:01   like the next level for AI to go is notification filtering.

01:31:06   It's-- - Yeah, it is.

01:31:08   - It's too hard to do by rules.

01:31:11   And I think back to spam filtering.

01:31:13   I remember when spam first became a problem with email,

01:31:18   you know, like in the late 90s.

01:31:20   And the way I dealt with it

01:31:22   and the way most people I knew dealt with it

01:31:24   is we had a bunch of filters, rules.

01:31:26   We, you know, you would just set up your mail client

01:31:28   with a bunch of rules and there was, you know,

01:31:32   I don't know, little things like--

01:31:35   - I still do that.

01:31:36   Like if you're on corporate mailing lists,

01:31:37   you still have to do that.

01:31:38   - You do, definitely, but for the most part though,

01:31:40   most spam is already, you know,

01:31:42   there's no way that you could have,

01:31:43   without something like, you know,

01:31:45   a system level above you, not your rules,

01:31:50   you'd be inundated, and 'cause they just, it's whack-a-mole.

01:31:53   I remember, but there were like, you know,

01:31:57   six or seven rules you could use and then boom,

01:31:59   you could cut your spam by like 90%.

01:32:01   And it's just not enough anymore.

01:32:03   And I kind of feel like notifications are that way,

01:32:06   where you can, right now it's like we're at that era

01:32:09   where we're setting up our own filters.

01:32:11   Like you're saying, okay, I don't want all my email.

01:32:15   That's crazy, but I do want the people on this VIP list.

01:32:18   Okay, there you go.

01:32:19   And it's, I know what you mean though,

01:32:22   'cause there's always gonna be an important email

01:32:24   that isn't from someone who's already on your VIP list.

01:32:26   and then you're gonna, you want that.

01:32:28   And it seems as though there ought to be a way

01:32:31   for AI to figure that out.

01:32:33   And it's, you know, and if anybody's gonna get that best,

01:32:36   if anybody's doing it already, it's definitely Google,

01:32:39   'cause it's right, right in the, it's--

01:32:41   - There we all have. - Yeah.

01:32:42   - For sure.

01:32:44   And I mean, that's like, for instance,

01:32:46   why you keep hearing these pings today,

01:32:47   'cause I've been out and about with the puppy

01:32:50   and I wanted to keep my email alerts on

01:32:52   'cause I've been waiting for an email back

01:32:53   from Google, actually.

01:32:55   And if I turned on my VIP thing, like I don't have that specific contact as a VIP.

01:33:02   Why would I?

01:33:03   Right?

01:33:04   But if I don't, if I don't like, there's no way to get the stuff in the middle.

01:33:09   Yeah.

01:33:10   It's either it's giving me the lowest hanging stuff, which is like emails from, you

01:33:14   know, general Wall Street Journal editors about SEO term words.

01:33:19   And then I'm getting iTunes spam.

01:33:23   And then I'm getting when that email comes in from that person from Google and immediately

01:33:27   on my wrist when I'm out and about in the apartment.

01:33:29   Can I tell you, it just kicked in because I had this show on my watch and I guess I

01:33:34   only had it scheduled for 90 minutes, so it's over.

01:33:36   One of my least favorite things on the watch face is if you have your next event as one

01:33:41   of the complications, when you're done for the day, it changes to say no more events.

01:33:47   It's like in all capital letters and it it it just seems like visual pollution to me. No more events

01:33:54   It makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong that I don't have anything else scheduled today. You have nothing else to do today

01:34:00   You can go to bed. No, I totally agree with the notification

01:34:03   I want I want my I want this whole thing to just figure out what I what I want on my on my wrist

01:34:10   Right and it could maybe use

01:34:12   Maybe if there was like a way to give a thumbs down to a notification that gets through

01:34:16   you know and and maybe like some kind of way where you could give a thumbs down

01:34:21   to a notification that gets through that you really didn't want and conversely on

01:34:27   your phone to give a thumbs up to a notification that was only on your phone

01:34:31   and didn't go to your wrist to say oh this was good I wish that this had gone

01:34:35   to my wrist and and then it could it needs a little bit of that feedback for

01:34:38   sure and I don't think definitely I mean that's how that's how Google's learning

01:34:42   right? I mean, they knew they know what we favorite.

01:34:45   Right.

01:34:46   That's part of what what they do.

01:34:47   And like if I move something from, you know, whatever they call it, my promotions, the updates,

01:34:56   updates is one of the things that they sometimes don't get right.

01:34:59   They'll put things that I that are important to me and updates in that filter and I drag it.

01:35:03   You know, they automatically start putting things there.

01:35:06   Do you keep the notifications indicator on?

01:35:09   It's that red dot at the top.

01:35:11   I do, but I'm, I, this is part of this piece, I might want to write for next week, that

01:35:16   thing can control your life.

01:35:19   Like I look down and I'm like, uh oh, you know, it's sort of like that.

01:35:23   It, it, to me it reminds me of the blinking red dot from the Blackberry, Blackberry ages.

01:35:27   That was exactly what I was going to ask you as a known former recovering.

01:35:32   It is and you, and it's like, I got to look, I got to look like, even though it's probably

01:35:37   not something I care about at all, I need to look.

01:35:40   Now I've never been a BlackBerry user, but I know enough that the idea is that BlackBerry's

01:35:46   had a physical red LED and it would blink if you had new messages.

01:35:51   And then your BlackBerry was blinking red.

01:35:54   You could leave it on your desk or something and you could walk away and you come back

01:35:57   and it's blinking red.

01:35:58   You pick up your BlackBerry and you see what is it.

01:36:01   And I remember in that era when BlackBerry users were switching to Android phones and

01:36:07   iPhones, that the thing that I kept seeing over and over again is I don't know what to

01:36:12   do without that red light. God, I don't even want to tell Apple how much more money I would

01:36:18   spend for an otherwise identical iPhone with a blinking red light. I heard that from so

01:36:23   many people, and you probably did too, because you're a known sympathizer to the Blackberry

01:36:28   attic cause. I can see why though now with this watch. I still have it on, but I'm thinking

01:36:34   By the way, I still think that red light on an iPhone would save a lot of battery life.

01:36:39   I see the appeal of it.

01:36:41   To me, it's the exact equivalent of the ringer switch on the iPhone, which most phones don't

01:36:49   come with.

01:36:50   Most Android phones don't have a dedicated on/off ringer switch, and I don't know what

01:36:54   I would do without that.

01:36:55   I love my ringer switch.

01:36:57   It would drive me...

01:36:58   And in fact, when I do try using phones other than the iPhone, like I have the second gen

01:37:03   Moto X here.

01:37:06   Honest to God, I think my single biggest complaint about it is that it doesn't have a ring or

01:37:09   switch.

01:37:10   Above and beyond all of the things that I would prefer about iOS versus Android and

01:37:17   the physical hardware of the phone, etc., etc.

01:37:21   The thing that just drives me nuts is that I can't just silence it without turning it

01:37:24   on.

01:37:25   And I know that there's a quick way to do it from the top.

01:37:26   You go down and it's a couple of taps.

01:37:29   But I'm just addicted to the way that I can just turn it on and off without even looking

01:37:33   at it. And to me, it I don't I don't in that same way. That's

01:37:37   what the blinking red light on the Blackberry was it was a way

01:37:40   of saying we're just going to put this on the device. We're

01:37:42   going to make it a hardware feature, not a software feature

01:37:44   that you can tell if there's something new.

01:37:46   Yeah, I'm looking at I don't think I really ever use the

01:37:51   ring. Oh my god, are you crazy? Do you leave it on? Or do you

01:37:54   leave it off?

01:37:55   I leave it on. So you always have sounds coming from your

01:37:59   iPhone.

01:37:59   Pretty much.

01:38:02   Would unless I'm doing like going to something and I use it or just silence it now

01:38:09   See, I keep it silenced because I just otherwise I feel like I'm getting bombarded with sounds all the time

01:38:14   I like to have it off. I

01:38:16   Mean honestly, you know what? I really only check it. I use this to check to make sure I'm getting

01:38:21   Like my alarms gonna go off in the morning

01:38:23   Well, see that's you know, I not everybody is addicted to everything right it's like but to me like it's

01:38:32   Comprehensible to me that every phone doesn't come with a switch like this and I it's by as the time has gone on

01:38:37   It's my least favorite thing about the current generation of iPads where they got rid of that switch

01:38:41   Hmm and I know other people use it

01:38:44   It was like you could configure it on the iPads to be either a rotation lock right of sound lock

01:38:48   But I kept it as yes. That's what I used to use it as I still kept it as sound lock

01:38:53   Yeah

01:38:56   Yeah, no, I love this little I mean I hate this little red button, but I hate I love it

01:39:00   also, I got to turn it off, I think. Yeah, I kind of think I'm going to end up turning it off in the

01:39:06   long run. And just I'll just check by swiping down to see if there are notifications that I've, you

01:39:11   know, that are still pending. Yeah, I mean, that's like one thing to like, does this have to clean

01:39:18   these all out? But does this mimic the notification tray on your phone? It does, right? I think so,

01:39:24   except the one on your phone can have more because some of them don't go through.

01:39:30   Yeah, I wish there was a way to clear these all.

01:39:32   You're is, Force Touch it.

01:39:33   Oh no, is this a secret Force Touch?

01:39:37   Yeah.

01:39:38   Oh my God.

01:39:39   This is the craziest thing to me.

01:39:43   Secret Force Touch is...

01:39:44   Secret Force Touch is like a mind bending thing.

01:39:50   I've just changed the life though, right?

01:39:52   You find things that are just not, you would never have known,

01:39:56   you would have never thought to Force Touch on that menu.

01:39:58   I never would have thought to force touch on the notification menu just like I was on the verge cast last week

01:40:04   I would have never thought to force touch on the emojis

01:40:07   To change it you can change like the the pac-man

01:40:10   Smiley guy to a red red face pac-man change the hearts to per right

01:40:15   You can get a purple heart on this thing. That is my tip

01:40:20   I know that it's you know, ten days away ten two weeks away from everybody out there getting their Apple watches

01:40:26   I'll tell you my number if there's one thing you remember from this episode of the show when you get your Apple watch

01:40:30   It's don't forget to try force tap everywhere you go. No force touch everything

01:40:35   Just force touch every single thing on the so force touching

01:40:39   Notification Center or I don't know what they call it if they call it, but would you come this is my machine

01:40:44   This is like completely like you come just clear them all down from the top and force touch and you get one button

01:40:49   Clear all and they all go away

01:40:51   So let me tell you this I'm so addicted to that that I've started doing it on my phone

01:40:55   Because one of the things and it's a long-standing complaint a lot of people have is on the iPhone

01:41:00   You can't you can't clear all of your notifications

01:41:02   You can only do it at by adding hit the ad and you have to hit clear again

01:41:06   And then you have to hit the next X then clear

01:41:08   So I just I've started force touching my phone thinking that I can clear all because I clear all on my I mean all the time

01:41:15   We're pretty sure force touch is coming to the phone, right? I mean, it seems like yeah, but I really here's the big

01:41:20   We could go on and on about this

01:41:22   But here's my question about it with the phone is we have two two devices with force touch

01:41:27   And I want to talk to you about the MacBook, too

01:41:29   And we can get to it there

01:41:32   But so we have the new MacBook which has the force touch strike pad and we have the watch which has

01:41:36   Forced touch on this little tiny screen on the watch

01:41:38   Forced touch it the whole screen is just effectively a button. It doesn't matter where you force touch

01:41:45   It's just a it's either a force tap or not a force tap and that's it

01:41:49   a regular tap has location like a touchscreen if you tap hard it's just a

01:41:53   force tap doesn't matter where so you can't force tap on a thing on the watch

01:41:58   and I think that makes sense because it's so small on the trackpad obviously

01:42:02   it's very very precise and you get a you get the taptic feedback exactly where

01:42:07   your finger is so I think it's definitely coming to the iPhone I think

01:42:12   it's coming to the iPad eventually if not this year it'll be just one more

01:42:17   year. But my question is, is on these phones and tablets, is it going to be like precise?

01:42:24   Or is it going to be like the watch where it's like you've just force tapped and

01:42:28   that's it and it, you know, it doesn't matter where your finger is on the screen?

01:42:32   I think it's going to be precise depending on the screen size, right? I think like on

01:42:37   the MacBook, you can force touch on a word, right? And that's very precise. So I could

01:42:44   see that also being an option on on the phone and on the iPhone, right? Like if I force

01:42:51   touched on instead of double tapped on a word, I maybe something else would happen.

01:42:57   I mean, I, I definitely want it to work that way on my iPhone. I want it to be like precise

01:43:02   so I can force tap on a word. But I'm I just wonder whether I'm setting myself up for disappointment.

01:43:07   Because engineering wise, like, it can't right, they can make the trackpad so that the trackpad

01:43:12   isn't underneath the trackpad is entirely set up as a haptic feedback, right? But they there may not

01:43:19   be because the this the phone, all there is is a screen effectively, that they may not have room to

01:43:26   make the whole thing. You know, precisely taptic. I don't know, I might be setting myself up for

01:43:32   disappointment there. So I'm not letting myself get I guess I now that I think about it, too. But

01:43:36   but yeah, it's certainly like, I would be very happy to force touch on the notifications clear

01:43:41   You know what I'd be also really happy for?

01:43:45   Apple, if you are listening to this podcast, I want to force touch in Control Center on

01:43:52   the wireless command, the little wireless circle, and I want to go to the settings menu,

01:43:58   and there I want to be able to, the wireless settings menu, and I want to be able to get

01:44:03   to Wi-Fi.

01:44:04   Okay?

01:44:05   That's a request.

01:44:06   Oh, I see what you mean.

01:44:07   So you go from Control Center, force touch on the little--

01:44:09   I hate that I can't get to settings from control center.

01:44:13   - I see what you mean where you would just--

01:44:14   - I want to just press-- - Tap it to toggle it

01:44:16   on and off, but do a force touch on it

01:44:18   and then jump to the settings for Bluetooth.

01:44:20   - Yes.

01:44:21   I would be very, very, I would be so happy.

01:44:25   - That would make a lot of sense.

01:44:26   And then you could do it like with all of them,

01:44:27   'cause then you could do it with do not disturb,

01:44:30   and instead of just turning it on or off,

01:44:31   you would jump to your do not disturb settings

01:44:33   and you could change like the time that it's scheduled for.

01:44:37   - I mean, most of the time when I'm turning on and off WiFi,

01:44:39   It's true, I'm just getting on my home network or whatever.

01:44:42   For some reason, I turned off Wi-Fi, I don't know,

01:44:44   it was slow or something someplace and I turned it off.

01:44:46   But a lot of the time, I'm also going to someplace

01:44:50   and I want to get on a new Wi-Fi network.

01:44:53   And I just want to get to the Wi-Fi settings.

01:44:56   And it's a whole other step, I've got to go into settings

01:44:59   and I got to hit Wi-Fi.

01:45:01   And yes, I know, cry me a river, it's three taps,

01:45:03   but two taps, but just a request.

01:45:06   - I have two things I want to talk about still

01:45:08   before we wrap up.

01:45:09   I want to talk about third party apps on the watch,

01:45:12   and I want to talk about the new MacBook.

01:45:14   Do you have anything else that's like a must talk about?

01:45:17   I think we could easily fill up our remaining time

01:45:21   with that.

01:45:21   All right, before we get started with either,

01:45:23   let me just thank--

01:45:23   - And this puppy's still sleeping.

01:45:25   He's been sleeping the whole podcast.

01:45:26   That's how bored he is of me.

01:45:28   He's so bored by this conversation.

01:45:31   - I had a boyhood family dog.

01:45:34   I think I was in second grade when we got him.

01:45:36   His name was Chester, and I loved him

01:45:38   much as I've ever loved any living being on this planet, just about. And he slept 23 hours a day,

01:45:46   I think, as a puppy. And then even as an adult, I think he probably slept about 21 hours a day.

01:45:51   But I was so, I was pretty upset because I thought he would be playing with me nonstop all the time.

01:45:58   I thought so too. I've been home for like the last, I took off for, I don't have a column this

01:46:03   week. And I was like, "Oh, I'm going to play with him all day. He sleeps all day." And I keep asking

01:46:07   my wife, I think he's depressed. I think he's depressed. No, we need to take him someplace. No,

01:46:11   she's like, No, he's a puppy. He just he sleeps all day. That's what he's going to do. And I'm like,

01:46:16   No, I think he's got here. I think he's upset. Nope, that is why else. That's what they do.

01:46:21   It's kind of awesome. If you think about it, they're, they're living the life.

01:46:25   Did you get the week? Oh, I just to go to go meta for a second. Did you get the week off? Because

01:46:31   you did the Apple Watch review and the MacBook review at the same time, which I see.

01:46:37   Yes. And then I decided to get a puppy like the day after. So I barely slept for a very

01:46:43   long time. But yes, I did get the week off for that reason.

01:46:47   I forget how many words long my Apple Watch review was, which didn't really go through

01:46:52   the software. And it was still many, many thousands of words. And when I was done, I

01:46:56   really felt like i needed to check myself into like uh... a spa or

01:47:00   something and recuperate

01:47:02   and meantime you

01:47:04   had actually cannot believe that you'd review both at the same time people

01:47:08   email me and they're like did you get the mac bookie kind of review

01:47:10   and i was like no i did not get the mac book i didn't want the mac book i'm

01:47:13   exhausted having reviewed the apple watch you did both i i'd

01:47:19   you know that video

01:47:20   took so much out of me that apple watch video because

01:47:24   I just never thought it would actually work.

01:47:26   We spent so much time thinking about it and then just so many hours editing and figuring

01:47:32   out if this thing could come together to a piece that people would actually want to watch.

01:47:36   We were there at the office.

01:47:37   I was at the office two or three nights in a row until 2 a.m.

01:47:41   And then I was like, "Oh, yeah, and then this MacBook review."

01:47:44   I salute you because I don't understand how you did it all.

01:47:47   I don't understand how you did the video and I don't understand how you did all three of

01:47:50   the things and the MacBooks.

01:47:52   You had a good MacBook video too.

01:47:54   But the Apple Watch video,

01:47:54   for those of you who haven't watched it,

01:47:55   I'll put it in the show load.

01:47:56   But Joanna's Apple Watch video was truly first person.

01:48:01   She literally put a helmet on that could support a,

01:48:06   it looked like an SLR?

01:48:07   I mean it was--

01:48:08   - It was, it's a 70D, it's a Canon 70D.

01:48:12   (laughing)

01:48:12   - So no crappy GoPro.

01:48:15   It, an actual, I honestly, I watched the video first

01:48:18   and then at the end there is like a third person shot

01:48:20   that shows you shooting it.

01:48:21   and I was like, at first I thought it was a joke,

01:48:24   and then I thought, no, that explains

01:48:25   why the quality was so great.

01:48:27   The whole thing is it's a day in the life

01:48:29   of using Apple Watch, shot literally

01:48:32   from the first person perspective, you know, eyeball level.

01:48:35   And the way she did it was by spending a day of her life

01:48:39   with a helmet with a Canon 70D in front of her face.

01:48:43   - Yeah, it was insane.

01:48:44   I mean, I wanted to do something different

01:48:46   'cause I was like, everyone's gonna have video reviews

01:48:48   of this thing, wanted to do something different,

01:48:50   And my whole purpose was actually to like sort of do an anti-apple ad like this is what

01:48:55   it's like to use in a real life and not on like a beautiful white background.

01:49:00   And yeah, it just turned into this massive project and one of the producers had done

01:49:04   something similar and I was like, so about this helmet camera, you think it's like,

01:49:09   you think it's ready to go?

01:49:11   And we just did.

01:49:13   And yeah,

01:49:14   I thought it was really worked well.

01:49:15   And I thought the other thing too, here's the other thing, though, that amazes me and

01:49:18   I think it's because I'm a very slow worker, but to me that amazes me is that not just

01:49:25   that you did this very production intensive video and footage intensive, right? Because

01:49:32   you had to spend a whole day with the helmet on. So it took a long time to get all the

01:49:36   footage, clearly took a long time to edit. And you wrote a completely credible column

01:49:43   reviewing it, and having used the watch myself, and having watched the video and read your

01:49:50   review, clearly you spent enough time using the watch to form a very informed opinion.

01:49:57   So – because that to me is part of the problem with these review schedules, is that it takes

01:50:02   – it takes so much time with the device before you can even start, because you need

01:50:06   the time to form a genuine opinion of it, to understand it.

01:50:09   Right.

01:50:10   I know, and I think people were concerned also about the MacBook.

01:50:13   I had the MacBook for two weeks.

01:50:14   That was a nice thing about both of these pieces.

01:50:19   Look, we could have definitely used some more time

01:50:21   on the watch in terms of the embargo time,

01:50:23   but I had a week and a half and really hammered on that

01:50:28   and then also used the MacBook as my main laptop

01:50:31   through the whole thing.

01:50:32   So I had a good amount of time for testing.

01:50:35   Battery life testing on MacBook can take quite a bit

01:50:39   of time and so I had a good amount of time for that.

01:50:42   your video include and is lasting i did

01:50:46   as a hilarious

01:50:48   cameo from group at her murder how did the world did you get that

01:50:53   all right yeah i mean obviously some parts of the video were scripted

01:50:57   aright okay it

01:50:59   people have been like so did you really just run into him and no i i didn't just

01:51:02   run into rupert with a huge have helmet camera on and i was like report could be

01:51:06   still by watch

01:51:07   uh...

01:51:08   yet do it that was scripted but he was totally game is great to work with on it

01:51:11   He was just like, okay, sure, sounds like fun.

01:51:14   - He's always struggling with having a great sense of humor.

01:51:17   - Yeah, and he, like, I didn't say what to say.

01:51:20   It was just like, we'll try it out.

01:51:22   And he was the one who really ran with it, so.

01:51:25   - I died at that point.

01:51:28   It was so funny.

01:51:30   - I was like, all right, all right, yeah,

01:51:31   you can steal the watch, totally.

01:51:33   I mean, my idea was honestly just to run

01:51:35   into him in the elevator, which actually does happen a lot.

01:51:37   I, you know, will come up from doing a Fox News business hit

01:51:41   he'll be on the same floor and I'll say hi.

01:51:44   But he was like, "Oh yeah, no, sure, I'll do this."

01:51:48   Yeah.

01:51:49   I mean, also, I kept joking, like, "Are you sure it's not the Apple Watch Edition?

01:51:55   Is it good enough for you?"

01:51:56   [Laughter]

01:51:57   Pete: Because Ruth Murdock is clearly among the people on the planet Earth where the difference

01:52:03   between the edition and the regular Apple Watch is, "Eh, well, whichever color I like

01:52:08   better."

01:52:09   [Laughter]

01:52:10   Cheryl Kane-Piasecki Right, exactly.

01:52:11   was great, and I really do think it also kind of hammers home the modernization of the Wall

01:52:22   Street Journal culture. Like, it wasn't out of character. I think it's completely within

01:52:26   the character of the style of reviews you guys do now. But I don't know, having the

01:52:31   publisher of the paper, you know, the famous publisher of the paper show up as a cameo

01:52:36   in a review of a tech product, I thought it was great.

01:52:39   Rachel Tompa Yeah, I mean, I tried, I wanted every scene to have a little bit of a purpose.

01:52:43   Like, obviously, my sister saying, you know, I can't, can I curse on the show?

01:52:47   Pete Slauson Yeah, you can totally curse.

01:52:48   Rachel Tompa Yeah, you know, like, fuck you to me. Like, you know, I thought that was,

01:52:52   I thought it was fun, but also showed like, A, people are going to be really excited about

01:52:56   getting this watch and B, like, making phone calls on it isn't actually totally stupid.

01:52:59   Pete Slauson Everybody should watch. I'm not going to spoil it.

01:53:02   Rachel Tompa It's funny, everyone, it's really funny the interpretation of that because I didn't

01:53:05   editorialized so much like so many of my reviews I basically am editorializing.

01:53:09   I'll say buy or don't buy or you know this is and in that I didn't really

01:53:13   editorialize so much and so people have had different interpretations of it

01:53:16   which is great. I've had people email me and tweet saying I watched it three

01:53:20   times and I'm still not sure if you liked it or you didn't like it which I

01:53:25   kind of love and I think you know certainly people have watched it and

01:53:29   said I'm definitely not buying one and other people have said oh you made me

01:53:32   want one so badly. You know, Business Insider completely ripped off the article and said,

01:53:36   this is the reason you would not want to buy one, or ripped off the video. And I just,

01:53:41   yeah.

01:53:42   I've had the same thing with my review. I have had people, I've had responses both ways.

01:53:46   I had people said, I was really on the fence, I was going to wait this out. Then I read

01:53:50   your review. And I thought, screw it, I'm getting one at three o'clock in the morning,

01:53:53   you know, the day they go on sale. And then I had other people, just as many who said,

01:53:57   I was totally set to buy one of these and I read your review and I'm not buying one.

01:54:02   I'm going to wait.

01:54:03   I've had both responses and I don't think that's ever happened with a product before

01:54:08   that I can remember.

01:54:09   And it wasn't just one or two.

01:54:10   It was a solid half a dozen both ways.

01:54:13   Yeah, I mean, in the column I was obviously a little more blatant.

01:54:17   I've told many friends I don't think they should buy this.

01:54:21   And then certainly many people read and I've been getting tons of emails from people saying,

01:54:25   Do you think I should get this sport version?

01:54:27   Do you think I should get this band?

01:54:29   Lots of people read and said, yeah, you showed me the goods and the bads and I'm deciding

01:54:35   on yes or no or whatever.

01:54:36   Yeah, I got the steel edition.

01:54:41   I'm glad I did, but I kind of wish I had more time with the sport edition.

01:54:47   But I think I know enough and I've definitely seen enough and I trust Apple and from what

01:54:53   what other people have tried it on have said.

01:54:56   And the fact that I like those sport bands so much

01:54:58   that I feel like anybody who's on the fence

01:55:00   but kind of wants one, just go ahead and get the sport one

01:55:02   at the entry level price and you're gonna get

01:55:06   a totally quality device.

01:55:08   The digital crown feels great, the button's great,

01:55:11   every bit as good of build quality as Apple's

01:55:14   other aluminum stuff like the phones.

01:55:16   You're getting a totally great band.

01:55:18   Yes, it's a rubber wristband,

01:55:20   but it's a really, really good one.

01:55:22   It really is.

01:55:23   So don't worry about it.

01:55:25   Like if you're on the fence at all, you know,

01:55:27   and you can definitely swing the 350 or 400

01:55:30   for the sport watch, just get it and it's gonna be fine.

01:55:33   And especially if you're really just interested

01:55:35   in playing with the platform.

01:55:36   Like you're not getting a low tier device if you do it.

01:55:41   But it's hard.

01:55:44   It is a hard thing when people just want you to say,

01:55:46   "Should I buy it or not?"

01:55:47   Because I do, to me, I can't answer either way.

01:55:51   I cannot just say yes or no.

01:55:52   I can't wholeheartedly endorse it,

01:55:54   but I can't trash it either.

01:55:55   And I feel, the business insider piece,

01:55:57   I mean, those guys are jackasses.

01:55:59   They're not, I thought that if there's any,

01:56:03   you know, we all had different takes

01:56:05   about what we liked and what we didn't like.

01:56:07   I thought that the consensus was clearly,

01:56:09   this is a very interesting 1.0.

01:56:12   This is, there's some things that are definitely,

01:56:15   that they nailed, like the fitness tracking,

01:56:18   and there's other stuff that is a question mark.

01:56:20   And I thought that was the consistency across the board.

01:56:24   That it's, you know, maybe, depends.

01:56:28   And you're not gonna get a yes or no.

01:56:30   - Yeah, and I think this like,

01:56:33   and Apple's tagline for this was, it's on the money.

01:56:36   You know, this is the most personal product ever.

01:56:39   It's very hard to review something so personal.

01:56:42   It's very hard to review something

01:56:45   that specifically fits into, I mean,

01:56:48   that fits on your body and fits into your life in a very distinct way.

01:56:52   Yeah, and I think it's really hard to do something, to review something where a big part of the

01:56:57   appeal is whether you just think it's cool or not, or fun.

01:57:01   Totally.

01:57:02   So, I tell you what, I had to try it and there's only a few stores that take, there's not that

01:57:06   many stores that take Apple Pay.

01:57:09   But every time I use it at Whole Foods, every single time the cashier notices.

01:57:14   And I'm not doing it in an ostentatious way.

01:57:17   If anything, the introvert in me is trying to sort, not hide it, but do it as surreptitiously

01:57:22   as possible.

01:57:23   And I've paid with Apple Pay at my phone ever since the thing came out, and I got a few

01:57:27   comments about it when the phone first came out.

01:57:30   But nothing like with the watch.

01:57:32   With the watch, every single time they're like, "Oh my God, did you just do what I think

01:57:35   you did?"

01:57:36   And I say, "Yes."

01:57:37   And then they're like, "How did you know?"

01:57:38   Some of them know that the watch isn't out yet, and they say, "How did you get it?"

01:57:41   Others, I had a cashier at Whole Foods who had no idea what Apple Watch was.

01:57:45   All she said was, "Did you just pay with your watch?"

01:57:47   And I said, "Yes."

01:57:49   And she goes, "That is so cool."

01:57:51   And I mean, I could tell she did not know that it was an Apple Watch.

01:57:54   She didn't know the name of it.

01:57:55   All she knew is that I paid for my groceries with my watch, and she said, "That is so

01:57:59   cool."

01:58:00   Rachel Tompa See, I found the same thing, but at Duane

01:58:03   Reed, the woman behind the counter was like, "That's an Apple Watch."

01:58:07   And to me, that showed the power of like, the excitement about this thing, where she

01:58:12   was like, "I'm buying one.

01:58:13   I'm buying one."

01:58:15   "You haven't seen it, I'm buying one."

01:58:18   But you don't know about it, you know?

01:58:22   And it was like, she just was in awe of it.

01:58:25   She said she was buying it.

01:58:26   And of course it was like the first time

01:58:28   I had tried it there.

01:58:29   So I wasn't really sure how to get Apple Pay working.

01:58:31   Now I obviously have no problem.

01:58:33   I didn't, that's another thing.

01:58:34   It's like not totally intuitive.

01:58:36   You gotta press the button twice.

01:58:37   - So I did this, here's what I did is,

01:58:41   the first place where I used the Apple Pay actually

01:58:44   was in the Apple store.

01:58:46   I had to, my mom's, long story,

01:58:51   but my mom broke her old iPad.

01:58:53   And so I was going up for Easter

01:58:56   and I thought, you know what,

01:58:57   I'll just give her a Mother's Day gift early.

01:58:58   I'm gonna get her a new iPad.

01:59:00   It was long out of warranty.

01:59:02   She was like an iPad too.

01:59:03   So I used Apple Pay to pay for an iPad for my mom.

01:59:08   And I didn't know how it worked.

01:59:11   And I didn't wanna look it up.

01:59:12   Really wanted to try to figure it out on my own and I knew that I had figured I had

01:59:16   Configured the thing you go through the phone to set up a credit card

01:59:20   It doesn't just transfer your apples your existing cards over because it can't because when you set up a device for Apple pay

01:59:28   It's per device. That's part of the security the privacy slash security of

01:59:33   The way Apple pay works it's per device

01:59:36   So in the same way that if like you replace your iPhone if it breaks and you replace it and you restore from backup

01:59:42   You have to set up your cards again because it's not part of the device storage where Apple pay gets stored

01:59:48   You have to set up your watch the same way you do that though on the phone through the Apple pay app

01:59:54   You say I want to add a credit card and you can add the one from your iTunes account very easily or you can take

02:00:00   A picture of a card just like when you set one up on your phone, but it's different

02:00:03   You can't just, you don't just get the ones that you have in your passbook on your phone.

02:00:07   So I knew I had set it up with a card and I went to the Apple store and I didn't know

02:00:11   how to set it up.

02:00:12   And I remember from the event, he's something something about double clicking the button.

02:00:18   But I figured that was how you confirm it.

02:00:20   I thought it would be like the phone with the phone.

02:00:22   You just wave it and then it says, okay, you want to pay this?

02:00:25   And then you do the touch ID and it goes through.

02:00:27   So I figured I'll just wave my watch at the thing and it will come on and then I'll double

02:00:32   tap that button. And the clerk at the Apple store was like, holy cow, how did you get

02:00:39   that? You know, and it was, you know, I, you know, felt a little bit like a jerk. And I

02:00:44   wasn't trying to like, you know, Lord it around. If anything, again, the introvert in me was

02:00:48   trying to like, you know, hey, let's keep this down. I'm allowed to use it, you know,

02:00:52   and you're like, right, right, you're allowed to do it, they want you to try it. But it's

02:00:55   like, let's just keep it between us from now. And then you can tell everybody that somebody

02:00:58   came in here with a watch.

02:01:00   - Yep, John, I hate to cut you off right now,

02:01:02   but my puppy just pooped on the wheelie pad.

02:01:04   - Oh God, please go.

02:01:06   - We're so proud of him every time.

02:01:10   I'll be back in two seconds.

02:01:11   Don't edit this out.

02:01:12   Don't edit this out.

02:01:13   Come here.

02:01:15   (whistling)

02:01:16   Come here.

02:01:16   Good boy.

02:01:19   Good boy.

02:01:24   You're such a good boy.

02:01:27   Good boy.

02:01:30   Hello.

02:01:31   Hello.

02:01:32   Hi.

02:01:33   That was so great.

02:01:34   Yeah.

02:01:35   It's a big moment when this happens.

02:01:37   No, that's--

02:01:38   He's actually really-- I don't want to say it too loud,

02:01:41   so here's it, but I think he's a genius.

02:01:43   Yeah, how can he be doing it?

02:01:44   If he's only been with you a week,

02:01:45   how in the world is he already being--

02:01:47   Oh, he's been in here.

02:01:48   He's been with us for like three days.

02:01:49   How is that possible?

02:01:50   Yeah, he might be a genius.

02:01:52   I know.

02:01:52   And he's constantly going on the pad.

02:01:54   And we can't take him outside yet,

02:01:55   because when they're on the ground,

02:01:57   They're Parvo, Parvo, some, it's with this disease thing,

02:02:01   lives in the ground in New York City for dogs

02:02:03   because there's so many dogs and he's not fully vaccinated

02:02:06   so he can't go outside yet.

02:02:08   - Oh, I didn't know about that.

02:02:09   - Yeah, so that's why he's gotta go inside.

02:02:11   We don't want him, we don't wanna train the dog

02:02:13   to go inside but we have to for the next five weeks

02:02:15   because-- - Oh, wow.

02:02:16   - Until he gets these shots, then he can go outside.

02:02:17   - Wow, that's weird, I had no idea.

02:02:20   - Yeah, it's like at New York,

02:02:21   'cause there's so many dogs everywhere.

02:02:23   It lives in the dog's poop and pee, you know,

02:02:25   so if the other dog sees it and eats it

02:02:27   whatever you know. Anyway,

02:02:29   Apple Pay at the Apple store. Yeah. So I figured it out. Yeah.

02:02:38   Well, you know, the clerk had the little hand reader. And with

02:02:44   the phone, you just put your phone up against theirs, and

02:02:46   then initiates. And I'm waving my Apple Watch against the thing

02:02:49   and nothing is happening. And I'm like, Oh, man, I really

02:02:52   wanted to try this out. And I guess I had tried now I think

02:02:56   about it. I had tried it at Whole Foods before and it didn't wake up and I thought, "Hmm."

02:03:01   And it was like the right-before-dinner, 6.30, 7 o'clock rush and I didn't want to hold

02:03:09   up the line. So I thought, "I'll come back. I'm here all the time. I'll come back

02:03:11   tomorrow." So this time at the Apple Store, though, I thought, "I've got to figure

02:03:14   this out." Only by trial and error did I figure out you've got to do the double-press

02:03:18   first and then wave it against it. I'm not even sure what the thinking is. I think

02:03:26   I think the explanation is it lowers the battery life because then the NFC thing is only listening

02:03:31   when you've double tapped, whereas your phone is always listening for an NFC connection.

02:03:36   I'm not quite sure.

02:03:37   Or maybe it's, I don't know.

02:03:39   But it is a little different.

02:03:40   But then once you know it…

02:03:41   Is it an authentication thing?

02:03:42   Can I say that word right?

02:03:44   Yeah, maybe.

02:03:45   Because on your phone you've got to hold down touch ID.

02:03:50   Right.

02:03:51   And on the watch it's just a double tap.

02:03:53   And so this, you know, having to put it in that mode first decreases the chance that

02:03:56   someone could just sneak by your wrist and, you know, start an Apple Pay, you know, connection.

02:04:02   Once you know it, it's a cinch.

02:04:04   And I have to say it is, I know it sounds so stupid and so lazy, but it's even easier

02:04:10   than paying with your phone.

02:04:13   I agree.

02:04:14   At first, I mean, it is a little awkward because you're like holding your wrist in a certain

02:04:17   way.

02:04:18   You know, you're flipping your wrist upside down, but it's so brief and it's so quick.

02:04:22   I've actually found I think it's quicker than my iPhone because sometimes my iPhone has

02:04:26   problems with touch ID now.

02:04:27   I don't know if it's just a couple, you know, now that I've been using it so much, should

02:04:31   I probably unlock my phone, you know, I think a hundred times a day, whatever, that it seems

02:04:37   faster than using my phone.

02:04:39   I mean, also, obviously, you don't have to pull out your phone.

02:04:41   So that process is much faster as well.

02:04:42   Yeah.

02:04:43   And part of that too is we're still at the tail end of the winter season on the East

02:04:47   Coast.

02:04:48   And so when I am out shopping, I'm wearing a coat, and it's harder to get in my pocket

02:04:51   to get the phone out.

02:04:52   et cetera, et cetera.

02:04:53   So Apple Pay is great.

02:04:55   I think it's – and I think it – and it is absolutely, positively a selling – a

02:05:00   public selling point of the thing where people see you doing it in public and then they want

02:05:04   to buy an Apple Watch.

02:05:06   I mean, it really is.

02:05:07   It sells the Apple Watch.

02:05:09   And it's the silliest thing.

02:05:11   Do you – again, so many of the reviews are like, "Do you need it?"

02:05:14   No.

02:05:15   Of course not.

02:05:16   You don't need any of this stuff.

02:05:17   You know, you don't even need a watch to tell time.

02:05:18   You can get – you know, you get the time from your phone.

02:05:20   I mean you don't need there's not a single thing on it that you need me

02:05:22   It's the wrong question to ask and Apple pay is right there. You do not need Apple pay

02:05:27   But is it nice and is it cool then definitely?

02:05:31   Right. No, I and that experience with that running thing

02:05:36   I mean basically in that whole, you know, 20 or 30 minutes of

02:05:40   That experience I was able to experience pretty much everything you can do without using your phone

02:05:46   And that's you know yes more and more stuff will become separate from the phone

02:05:51   I think in future whether it be in this generation or more generations future generations of the product, and that's really freeing

02:05:57   All right, let me take the last break. We have a fourth sponsor, and it's our good friends at Squarespace

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02:09:06   all right third-party apps on Apple watch they suck they suck they're just

02:09:14   slow they're really really slow I mean I don't know I actually wouldn't know if

02:09:19   they suck cuz I've never really waited for one of them to load have you ever

02:09:23   gotten the uber to load I got it to load no I've never gotten it so I got it to

02:09:27   load one time and then it didn't do anything and I talked to neil I neil I

02:09:31   said he was getting it to work one day but it it didn't tell him which side of

02:09:36   of the building it thought he was on and like the guy came to the you know the

02:09:40   other side of the bill I guess the Verge office has like a front entrance and a

02:09:43   back entrance and the guy was like waiting at the other side because it

02:09:46   just you know whereas you use on your phone it tells you exactly where it

02:09:48   thinks it's gonna pick you up but everybody else I know it's like I can't

02:09:53   believe that they publish the app I know that they wanted apps in the App Store

02:09:57   so that those of us with review units could have some to try but I can't

02:10:02   believe the uber one got through like nobody nobody gets it to work it just

02:10:06   sits there pulsing blue.

02:10:09   And that actually is another thing I did when I was setting up my watch.

02:10:11   I kind of took off pretty much almost all these apps because I found my I hate the app

02:10:16   screen.

02:10:17   I hate that screen.

02:10:18   I can never accurately touch anything on here.

02:10:21   The digital crown is really not very useful to me to be honest.

02:10:26   And so I just took off most of the apps on here.

02:10:28   That's an interesting complaint and I feel the same way.

02:10:32   I feel like it is really hard to tap an individual icon.

02:10:35   And whether it's first party or third party,

02:10:37   whether it's one of Apple's or not.

02:10:39   - Yeah.

02:10:41   - I kind of wish that the default size for the icons

02:10:44   would be a little bigger.

02:10:45   Like you can zoom in and zoom out,

02:10:47   but when you're sort of,

02:10:48   there's sort of is a default size where it settles in at.

02:10:51   And I feel like it shows too many apps

02:10:54   as opposed to showing fewer bigger apps

02:10:57   to make them easier touch targets.

02:10:59   I still two weeks later.

02:11:01   Like if I delete ones, why wouldn't it just become bigger?

02:11:04   Like why, you know, as you delete these little icons,

02:11:09   they don't become bigger.

02:11:10   - I just wish that as you zoom the crown,

02:11:12   that you could stop at a bigger spot

02:11:15   and then it would stay there.

02:11:16   As opposed to you make them a little bigger

02:11:19   and then you let go and it just settles back.

02:11:22   - Totally agree, totally agree.

02:11:25   Yeah.

02:11:25   - I can't help but think they're going to,

02:11:27   I have to address this.

02:11:29   it's really, it's just too finicky.

02:11:34   And it comes back to stuff that Apple even bragged about

02:11:38   with the iPhone where they measured optimal touch sizes

02:11:43   for average fingertips and then knowing

02:11:47   that the original iPhone was 163 pixels per inch,

02:11:52   that means that the minimum touch size is 40

02:11:56   and two different buttons should be at least this far apart

02:12:01   to avoid accidentally touching one when you meant the other.

02:12:04   And all those details of how many pixels it was,

02:12:07   and now with the retina screens, it's all in points,

02:12:09   which are double the size,

02:12:10   but you can just deal with them the same way.

02:12:13   You have to be a developer designer

02:12:14   to care about the specific numbers,

02:12:16   but as a user, all it meant was when you used an iPhone,

02:12:19   the thing you thought you were tapping

02:12:21   was the thing you were tapping almost every time.

02:12:23   Whereas on--

02:12:24   Yeah, and I thought, you know, I thought this might be a reason to get the bigger screen.

02:12:29   But it sounds like I mean, it also assumes that if you have a bigger screen, you've got

02:12:33   bigger fingers.

02:12:36   But those touch targets aren't even any better on the bigger screen.

02:12:39   Yeah, I don't think so.

02:12:40   Now that doesn't mean though, that there isn't an easy way to launch some of these apps.

02:12:45   Because one of the things that I don't think Apple has emphasized enough is that from the

02:12:48   regular watch face, if you have a complication up, you can just tap it to go to that app.

02:12:52   So I always have the temperature up on all of the watch faces that I use.

02:12:56   And if I tap the temperature from my watch face, it jumps me to the weather app.

02:13:01   And it seems as though the touch target for that is it's like the whole corner.

02:13:06   It's the whole corner of the display.

02:13:08   And it always works.

02:13:09   I don't miss it.

02:13:10   And I never tap the wrong thing and get something else.

02:13:13   Whereas from that, that's how I get to my activity app.

02:13:16   I don't even I don't even know if they're calling at the home screen.

02:13:21   they are but I don't even think of it as the home screen and I it's like one of

02:13:25   the things you have to get used to is as an iPhone or iPad user is you think of

02:13:29   the home screen as the thing where you've hit a button and you see all your

02:13:33   apps and then you that's your home screen to me the home screen on the

02:13:36   watch is the watch face and you can figure that the way you want it with

02:13:40   your most used things and you launch things there and the home screen on the

02:13:45   watch that the one you launch the apps from I hate to say it because I think

02:13:48   I think it's, you know, to me it's like the Android all apps screen.

02:13:55   I was just thinking the same thing.

02:13:56   It really is.

02:13:57   It's the…

02:13:58   But yeah, it's like a tap away, like that's what I don't, like the digital crown, I

02:14:04   just feel like I wish I could map that button to be something else.

02:14:09   Instead of going to the all your apps?

02:14:11   Yes.

02:14:12   Yeah, I don't know.

02:14:14   It's like I see why it's there and I just wish I could make them bigger.

02:14:20   And it is an interesting way to just say, "Okay, here's everything else."

02:14:24   I mean, and it's the design of it, the way that you don't even organize them into pages.

02:14:27   I kind of like that.

02:14:30   I kind of like that you don't have to organize it.

02:14:32   I feel like fiddling with the exact placement of which apps are on which screen on your

02:14:36   iPhone can get old after a time.

02:14:38   I kind of like that it's just this big, globby thing that you can glide around.

02:14:42   I could actually see that even working on the iPhone,

02:14:44   at least as an option.

02:14:46   It might be that everybody's muscle memory is so much

02:14:48   that they can't just change it to be like that for everybody

02:14:50   but as an option, that might be an interesting way

02:14:53   to get your apps on an iPhone.

02:14:55   - My favorite thing is like, it makes me wonder,

02:15:00   like who did they think could,

02:15:03   when you hold down to delete an app,

02:15:06   you get the tiny little X.

02:15:09   I mean, like I said in my, like the video,

02:15:12   like is this for people with really small doll fingers?

02:15:15   Like how are you supposed to delete that?

02:15:18   Like you can hit it, but like it's,

02:15:21   you're really holding your watch up close to your face

02:15:24   to delete this.

02:15:24   - That's one of the features where you can do it

02:15:27   both from the watch and from the app on the phone.

02:15:31   And I kind of feel like maybe they should have made that

02:15:33   just a phone only thing.

02:15:37   And there's other things where the tap targets to me

02:15:40   are pretty good. So like when you're picking a button, like you're texting with somebody

02:15:46   and you're like reply and then it gives you a bunch of options to choose from like yes,

02:15:50   no, okay, absolutely. Those are generously sized and I don't find myself miss tapping

02:15:58   on them. I feel like they're big enough, but these little app icons on the app launching

02:16:02   screen are too small. Aesthetically I see why they did it, but I really can't believe

02:16:09   that it passed their own internal use. And the thing with the third-party apps is this,

02:16:15   the way that they work, and I don't want to go into technical details of it, but they're

02:16:19   not really apps. They're called watch kit extensions, and you have to have the app on

02:16:23   your phone. There's a real app on your phone for every one of them. There's no such thing

02:16:28   yet as a watch-only app, third-party. So it's running on your phone. You can optionally,

02:16:35   any app on your phone that has a WatchKit extension, you can choose whether it is there

02:16:40   or not on your watch using the Apple Watch app on your phone. And if it's there, it's

02:16:45   there. But then when you run it, it doesn't really run on your phone. It's not executing

02:16:50   code on the CPU on the watch. I mean, it doesn't really run on the watch. It doesn't execute

02:16:54   code on the watch. It transmits over Bluetooth to your phone and it executes on your phone

02:17:00   and then it projects these views onto your watch.

02:17:03   Your watch more or less is sort of like a carplay display,

02:17:07   except it's only an inch big.

02:17:08   And it means everything is a little laggy.

02:17:12   It is super laggy to load, it's laggy to get data,

02:17:15   and even like button pushes are laggy.

02:17:18   - Yeah, and I mean, even just to me,

02:17:23   going through glances is laggy.

02:17:25   - Ooh, even the glances, hmm.

02:17:27   - Like paging through the glances.

02:17:30   Yeah, because sometimes they're not loaded yet.

02:17:33   Right.

02:17:34   But I do, do you use the glances?

02:17:37   I do use the glances.

02:17:38   That's the other thing that I feel like keeps you

02:17:40   from going to that app launching home screen

02:17:43   is for the stuff that I do most frequently,

02:17:45   I just go to the glance.

02:17:47   Yeah, I don't use it all that much.

02:17:52   The heart rate and then the battery life obviously.

02:17:54   Yeah, what about the now playing?

02:17:56   Now playing is pretty cool.

02:17:58   Yeah, that's why I don't use it.

02:17:59   I mean, I guess when I'm running I have, but I haven't really been using it too much.

02:18:03   So the now playing glance, I think it's pretty cool.

02:18:05   So whatever your iPhone is playing, whether it has a watch extension or not, if it's

02:18:10   playing audio on your phone to your headphones, you can control, you know, play, play, pause,

02:18:15   fast forward from the watch using the glance.

02:18:18   Yeah.

02:18:20   Sorry.

02:18:21   This puppy's destroying me.

02:18:24   If you need to go, just go.

02:18:26   Just drop your mic.

02:18:27   I'm just watching him. It's almost better because I'm like, I can't communicate with this dog right

02:18:33   now. So it's like, I have like a little bit of a eye into his brain. Like, okay, this is what you

02:18:39   really want to do. And you don't have my attention is I can't like, respond back. The bottom line is,

02:18:46   it doesn't make me not like the watch. But it makes me question whether there should be third

02:18:50   party apps for it at all yet. Yeah, I mean, I to me, like, that was a thought I had early

02:18:58   on when I got this thing was I just could not believe how much Apple was trying to do

02:19:01   with it in a first generation product. Certainly ambitious, but it's just a lot. And it's

02:19:09   very confusing. I mean, it takes a little bit of time, a couple of days to figure out

02:19:15   how to use this. I see I think confusing is slightly wrong because confusing it

02:19:21   to me it's disorienting at first whereas confusing to me implies that there's no

02:19:26   logical layout to it to me it's like it's like you're in a well laid out

02:19:31   building but it's a big enough building that it's gonna take you a couple of

02:19:35   days to figure out your way around but then once you do there's a sense to it

02:19:39   it. I do think it's very logically designed in a good way. But there's no question about

02:19:46   it that when you first strap it on your wrist, it is disorienting. And you're like, "Well,

02:19:50   how in the world do I turn this off?" And it's, you know, you're spending half your

02:19:54   time poking around your wrist and half your time poking around the watch on your phone

02:19:58   and it's confusing. Well, I just said confusing. So maybe it is confusing.

02:20:03   I think it's confusing.

02:20:05   To me, the biggest source of confusion is the stuff that what's on the phone to control

02:20:11   the watch and what's on the watch itself.

02:20:13   That took me a long time, and you kind of have to learn it on a case-by-case basis.

02:20:17   Stephanie: Yeah.

02:20:19   Yeah, no, I mean, it's funny.

02:20:23   The companion app, I did not talk enough about, but it really, that's what you've got to

02:20:30   live in in the first couple of days when you're first setting this thing up.

02:20:32   Pete: Yes, absolutely.

02:20:33   Like it's, you know, I think it's gonna stay

02:20:35   on your first iPhone home screen,

02:20:37   but it's definitely, it should be on your first

02:20:38   iPhone home screen when you're first setting it up.

02:20:40   - It's on mine, yeah, it still is.

02:20:42   Yeah.

02:20:44   - There's other cool stuff though,

02:20:45   this stuff, and again, I don't think notifications

02:20:47   are a huge reason for it.

02:20:49   I know, you know, everybody, I think,

02:20:52   I think some people it's a big deal,

02:20:53   but I think there's a reason why Apple

02:20:54   isn't making that a flagship tent pole thing,

02:20:57   that they're not even talking about notifications.

02:20:59   It's the, you know, using it as a watch,

02:21:01   using it as a status indicator for things like the weather

02:21:04   and your appointments and your fitness goals

02:21:08   and stuff like that.

02:21:09   And then to me, just the glances,

02:21:12   where you're not using apps,

02:21:13   you're just quickly seeing something.

02:21:15   Are the, to me, the primary points.

02:21:18   And then this communication stuff, who knows?

02:21:21   We have to see how that goes.

02:21:22   - Right.

02:21:23   And the fitness stuff for sure.

02:21:25   - And then the fitness stuff, definitely,

02:21:27   but it's almost like a wholly separate product category.

02:21:31   - Right.

02:21:31   - All right, last but not least, the new MacBook.

02:21:35   - Yes, I've probably got like 10 minutes

02:21:39   'til this guy jumps out of it now.

02:21:41   - Absolutely perfect.

02:21:42   I think we can cover it quickly because it's,

02:21:45   to me, I thought your review was a little harsh

02:21:51   in a way that I feel like you,

02:21:54   you were a little down on it overall.

02:21:57   'Cause the battery life isn't as good

02:21:59   and living with one port is, it seems early.

02:22:04   Like in your whole gimmick of it,

02:22:07   the gimmick of your, the conceit of your video

02:22:09   is that it's a laptop from the future.

02:22:12   - Right. - Without the ecosystem

02:22:14   to support it.

02:22:15   I think it's, you know, I feel like what you underplayed

02:22:18   is exactly how much the scenario

02:22:20   is like the original MacBook Air,

02:22:23   which to me, it's just a replay of that, right?

02:22:26   - Right. - Except--

02:22:27   - No, I totally agree. - Except that

02:22:28   original MacBook Air was even more outrageously priced if you know it was

02:22:33   like it was like over $2,000 true true I you know I came at it looking at there

02:22:43   was two ways of looking at it right one was the price for what you get and then

02:22:48   there was how much does this thing push the boundaries of what we have right now

02:22:52   in our current laptops so you know I was trying to look at it from both of those

02:22:57   places. And you're right, in the end like I came at it a little bit harsh because

02:23:02   I think for me there was no way I was going to get this thing and certainly

02:23:08   there there are definitely people I've heard from that said okay that's great

02:23:12   it's not for you but I'm definitely getting one. And the main reasons that I

02:23:16   wanted it were for the reasons that it pushed ahead laptops like it's so

02:23:21   incredibly beautiful this machine it just I mean I love the trackpad the

02:23:26   The keyboard is nice, but just between the trackpad and the screen, I really want this

02:23:32   thing.

02:23:33   And then there were all of these other things that when you looked at it in comparison to

02:23:37   what you can get for the price for other laptops, it just didn't measure up.

02:23:41   And it was obviously this push and pull of the compromise situation, which was the same

02:23:46   with the original Air.

02:23:49   And both the performance and the battery life and that one port, I just felt like that is

02:23:56   not pushing something ahead.

02:23:58   And I liked what your comment was

02:24:00   in terms of looking at it in terms of comparing to the iPad.

02:24:03   But again, when you think about the iPad,

02:24:06   you take a performance hit.

02:24:09   And it's not supposed to have the same performance

02:24:11   as a laptop, as a computer, right?

02:24:13   I mean, obviously those lines are blurring

02:24:14   as we forge into this interesting area of these

02:24:18   devices being both.

02:24:19   But you take a big performance hit on this laptop.

02:24:23   And I felt it.

02:24:24   it's a noticeable performance hit coming from the air. And it's

02:24:28   a noticeable one in battery life. Now, of course, the

02:24:30   battery life has different things, right? If you compare it

02:24:32   to the 11 inch air, it's getting more battery life, which is

02:24:35   impressive. But most people coming from a 13 inch air, which

02:24:39   is very portable for them has the power they need. We're used

02:24:42   to all day battery life. And I just was not getting all day

02:24:45   battery life from this. I used to use it. I use an 11 inch air

02:24:49   for years. And I because I'm the sort, if I'm going to go in one

02:24:52   direction, I like to go to the extreme if I'm going to get the

02:24:55   lightest smallest laptop, I want the light I want it even

02:24:57   smaller. I want the 11 not the 13. But I think if you look at

02:25:02   sales numbers, and if you just sort of eyeball coffee shops,

02:25:04   the 13 inch is clearly the the main Apple, the 13 inch air is

02:25:11   the flagship Apple laptop, like, or maybe flagship is the wrong

02:25:15   word, but it's certainly the most common one. And it's so

02:25:18   therefore, it's the baseline to compare everything against. And

02:25:21   I think it's fair to say it therefore I think it's fair to say the new MacBook gets worse battery life

02:25:26   even if it's better than the 11th because I feel like it's it's a

02:25:29   It's eventually going to replace the 13 as we go on, right?

02:25:34   I think the thing that most a lot of people complaining about it

02:25:37   What they really wanted I feel like is a

02:25:42   Ice-water-and-hell scenario like you can't just because you want it doesn't mean it's possible as I think what most people who are disappointed

02:25:49   Wanted was for Apple to just put retina screens in the MacBook Air that I love everything else about my air

02:25:55   All I want is a retina screen. Why couldn't you just give me that keep my USB ports keep my magsafe charger

02:26:02   Let me have a Thunderbolt

02:26:04   I you know if you it certainly if you plug this thing into a Thunderbolt display

02:26:08   you're screwed because the $80 adapter doesn't even have Thunderbolt and

02:26:12   Why couldn't you just give me that and I think the reason you can't you couldn't do that is that it?

02:26:18   Clearly these retina screens take up so much more battery power that the air form factor wouldn't work. It had to be re-engineered

02:26:24   Right and I

02:26:28   Would obviously love that product

02:26:30   I would love that product and it's part of why I'm at this point considering getting a retina

02:26:34   13 because actually the battery life has gotten better on that 13. It has force touch. It has the retina screen

02:26:40   I actually think it's a bad laptop is a better buy at some points now than the 13 inch air

02:26:46   especially if you're not on a strict budget. Yeah. But um, yeah, I mean, to me, it just

02:26:53   it was a hard it's, it's hard to recommend to people, but it is an amazing feat of engineering.

02:26:59   It is a beautiful laptop, and it's a pleasure to use when you are plugged into a wall and

02:27:05   don't need anything else. Yeah, from and for the people who are out there, and I know that

02:27:09   it people like us, like people who really push the machines don't qualify for it. But

02:27:12   I think out in the real world, there are a lot of people who are like, I've never plugged

02:27:15   anything into my MacBook. And I've heard from people who say like that they're, you know,

02:27:20   yes, you know, I read during fireball, but my husband or my wife or whoever that they

02:27:24   know their daughter or whatever their son never plugs anything in their in their MacBook.

02:27:29   Well, then it might be a great machine.

02:27:31   Right. And that's where like people are saying, Well, I don't need that power. I don't need

02:27:35   it to. Well, then that's great. You're paying for this beautiful design and this beautiful

02:27:40   screen, but you're compromising the power and the battery life. And that's fine, but

02:27:45   you're paying more money to get less functionality.

02:27:51   The other thing, last but not least, is that one USB-C port.

02:27:55   And I know John Siracusa, he seems truly confounded by it.

02:28:00   I'm not quite caught up on the Accidental Tech podcast as we record this.

02:28:04   But I know he's gone over, "Why not two?

02:28:06   Why only one?

02:28:07   Why one?"

02:28:08   And I cannot bring myself to believe that it's engineering.

02:28:12   I cannot believe that they couldn't, that putting a second one in would, you know, obviously

02:28:19   it would take some space, and therefore it would take a little bit of the battery space

02:28:22   away.

02:28:23   I just can't believe it would matter that much for something that clearly is a pretty

02:28:25   small part.

02:28:27   I think it's a philosophical thing, where they philosophically wanted to make it like

02:28:32   the iPad, where there's one port.

02:28:35   And the downfall of that, though, is that nobody has ever grown the habit of charging

02:28:41   devices from their iPad.

02:28:45   And the iPad gets longer battery life too.

02:28:49   Yeah.

02:28:50   I mean, just by the nature that how we use it, right?

02:28:53   Like I don't charge my iPad every day because I don't live on it every day, right?

02:28:57   I mean, I charge it every couple of days by my nightstand just because I like to have

02:29:02   more power in it.

02:29:03   I don't have to.

02:29:05   Different people use USB ports for all sorts of different things.

02:29:07   I know photographers, you know, are plugging in cameras and they're, you know, and they're

02:29:10   all sorts of other things, peripherals, external hard drives for some people. But the one to

02:29:15   me that Apple to me maybe is in a little bit of denial with on the one port on the MacBook

02:29:21   is, and you and I just talked about this half an hour ago, is the need to charge your iPhone

02:29:27   during the day. And I know I've done it. I've done it when I'm out of the house and working

02:29:32   remotely that I don't even plug, you know, like from the train and Amtrak if I don't

02:29:37   a working AC adapter next to me or if I don't have the window seat and I don't want to reach

02:29:42   across a stranger to plug in.

02:29:45   I'll just plug my phone because I know that I'm going to get home to Philly from New York

02:29:48   with plenty of battery life on my MacBook Pro.

02:29:51   I'll just borrow some of that and reuse my phone.

02:29:55   And if you're also charging your MacBook, you can't do that now.

02:30:00   And there are some times when your MacBook's already run down and you want to charge your

02:30:03   phone and you need that second port just as a charger.

02:30:06   Right, you need this dongle. Basically, you need this dongle to get by with using this

02:30:11   laptop, in my opinion.

02:30:13   Again.

02:30:14   It's like they should just bundle the dongle, which they're definitely not going to ever

02:30:18   do, and they charge $80 for the dongle.

02:30:20   And the $80 price on that really plays into the worst of perceiving Apple. Because to

02:30:27   me, it's actually accurate. It is. They're the richest company in the world, and they're

02:30:32   charging—

02:30:33   I know. And they're charging for plastic.

02:30:35   For an $80 thing that is, quite frankly, ugly by necessity, right?

02:30:40   Like you've…

02:30:41   Right.

02:30:42   It's gotta have three ports.

02:30:43   It's like…

02:30:44   You've taken this graceful little tiny elegant USB-C port and turned it into this big white

02:30:51   thing that looks like it's, you know, like something they would hook up to you in a hospital

02:30:55   with three ugly ports on it.

02:30:57   Or two ugly ports and one more USB-C port.

02:31:00   Right.

02:31:01   Right. I mean, yeah, I guess I should have looked at it a little bit closer to the iPad

02:31:07   and that use case. And I certainly think that is the way we are going. And that's where

02:31:11   I think, like, as we, as this future evolves, like, that is what our computers look like.

02:31:17   It's like, all we need is a screen with a flat piece of keyboard. And, you know, and

02:31:23   actually, it's very close to what Microsoft's been trying to do with the Surface for a long

02:31:26   time now. But more and more when I review that surface or use that surface I just wish

02:31:32   it was a laptop. So I really like the way they've gone with this. You know what remains

02:31:39   interesting to me or we don't know yet is what that iPad Pro might look like.

02:31:44   Right.

02:31:45   And how do those, how are those any different than what we've seen with the MacBook. But

02:31:49   I think it's pretty clear like where you know when something starts as a laptop and

02:31:56   has some of that tablet functionality or we have that tablet that becomes that laptop

02:32:00   where the sacrifices are. In this case, it just seems like we're making too many sacrifices

02:32:06   to move in that direction.

02:32:07   Yeah. And I think for everybody like us and the people who probably listen to this show,

02:32:11   it is, it's a device from the future. It's a prototype from the future that's not ready for

02:32:15   our day-to-day use, but it will be. And I think it's a clear bet from Apple that two or three

02:32:21   years from now, we are going to be using a laptop that really is just as much a little

02:32:26   peripheral as the iPad is.

02:32:28   Right.

02:32:29   And what I love about it is it means like there is this huge, bright future for laptops,

02:32:34   or just devices that we can be highly productive on that don't look like this traditional

02:32:41   computer or laptop we've known, right?

02:32:44   I mean, and that's what the air was.

02:32:46   And that was such a huge step in the industry.

02:32:49   I mean, this is also going to be a huge step in the industry.

02:32:51   There's no way we're not going to see Asus or Microsoft or some other PC manufacturer

02:32:58   taking notes from this and trying to do something very similar very soon.

02:33:03   Yeah.

02:33:04   Great point.

02:33:05   Thank you so much for your time.

02:33:07   Amazing.

02:33:08   Thank you so much for reviewing so many products in one week.

02:33:12   Yeah.

02:33:13   Never again.

02:33:14   I say never again, but of course.

02:33:16   And getting a puppy in the thing.

02:33:18   All while getting a new one.

02:33:19   Probably the worst mistake of it.

02:33:22   The home page.

02:33:23   Best place to read is wsjd.com.

02:33:28   Is that--

02:33:29   Yeah.

02:33:29   Is--

02:33:30   Yeah.

02:33:30   That's the home page for the Wall Street Journal digital team.

02:33:35   Joanna Stern, some of the--

02:33:37   unbelievable timing, because I would

02:33:39   have wanted to have you on to talk about the MacBook.

02:33:41   I would have wanted you to have you

02:33:42   on to talk about the Apple Watch,

02:33:43   and I got to have you on to talk about both.

02:33:45   So I cannot thank you enough for your time.

02:33:48   Yeah, no, I love doing it.

02:33:49   All right, good luck with...

02:33:50   I got to find my own positive podcast or something.

02:33:53   Good luck.

02:33:54   I don't know, I just can't find the time.

02:33:56   It's surprising how hard it can be.

02:33:58   Yeah.

02:33:59   Good luck with the dog poop.