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110: ‘Rats in the Lobby’ With Guest Merlin Mann

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0:00:00You still there?

0:00:01Oh yeah.

0:00:02You know what I did?

0:00:03Oh, you sound so much better.

0:00:04You know what I did?

0:00:05I plugged it into a different USB port.

0:00:07I think this is probably the last episode I'll record using this old Air.

0:00:13Oh, are you going to go to the new iMac?

0:00:16No, well yeah, I guess I should.

0:00:18I don't know why I don't record using the iMac.

0:00:20I don't know.

0:00:21Yeah.

0:00:22The Air is powerful enough to do that?

0:00:25It's probably why the show sounds like shit.

0:00:27No, you know what? And I actually know that this this old MacBook Air that I've used I I do it because I'm in some ways I'm a sentimental idiot and I think I've recorded like every episode of the talk show for I don't know at least the last three four years using that air so I want to keep doing

0:00:45doing. Yeah, I mean you said... It makes no technical sense. No, none at all, but you said not too long ago

0:00:51how in baseball, as baseball fans, there are people who are into the numbers and people who are into the story

0:00:56and that you're a story guy. Right. Right. And yeah, you know, the MacPulgaras got a story. When I stopped

0:01:02using my Rode, I was pretty nervous because I was like, I've been using this since 43 folders, MacBreak Weekly,

0:01:07like, you know, it's so dumb. I'm just changing to a better mic. Why would that matter? It shouldn't, but I

0:01:14I felt like a little bit disloyal.

0:01:16What did you switch to?

0:01:18Well, I tried a couple of things.

0:01:19I'm using a Shure SM7B now.

0:01:24It's super annoying because I got to go through this PreSonus

0:01:28thing.

0:01:29Oh, I don't want that.

0:01:31I think Marco was telling me about that.

0:01:33I don't want to do that.

0:01:35You know, I think I just listen to too much rock music.

0:01:38When people have these conversations about stuff,

0:01:40I just don't hear it.

0:01:42I don't hear what they're talking about.

0:01:43And it makes me feel like a charlatan.

0:01:46Like I don't, I mean I can notice in production values

0:01:50like when like the public radio show with a budget

0:01:52sounds different than three guys talking about Linux.

0:01:55But like I don't notice that much about mics and stuff.

0:01:58Do you?

0:01:59- No, I don't.

0:02:00- Yeah, you don't listen to a lot of podcasts though.

0:02:02- Oh, I mean I don't listen to a lot,

0:02:04but I listen to enough.

0:02:05But when I do, I'm listening with earbuds.

0:02:08So I don't think, and a lot of times I would say

0:02:13easily 85% of the time I'm listening to podcasts I'm walking through the city so

0:02:20there's so much noise you know it's the quality of the mic I mean I hope you

0:02:26know I I understand why people make it sound as good as they can but I could

0:02:30never hear the difference between microphones did you uh never get your

0:02:35driver's license back I didn't lose my driver's license today you probably

0:02:41don't remember it was on an episode of the talk show with Dan and you had the holiday party.

0:02:45It's my favorite episode of the talk show and you talked about how they took your license away.

0:02:52You don't remember you probably don't remember that. It was the holiday season. It's a lot to

0:02:55remember. Yeah I don't remember. Why did they take my license away? Oh I made it up. I made it up.

0:03:01That's right now I remember. Oh God now I remember. Because you had so many points.

0:03:07Right I had so many points. And you refused to go to traffic school and Dan you know to Dan's credit

0:03:11He played the entire episode straight. It was really funny. Oh, that was a good that was HR HR

0:03:16fluffy puff, you know and I got I

0:03:20Should write that down for the show notes. I got I

0:03:23Think most people got it, but I definitely got a fair amount of email from listeners who were telling me. Hey, you know

0:03:29Maybe you ought to get some help

0:03:33So, you know, that's not funny. It's not funny racking up all those points, you know

0:03:39You know how that hurts the government?

0:03:41- Well, they're like, you're gonna learn a lesson

0:03:44when you hit a kid crossing the street or something.

0:03:46- For Christ's sakes, John, you got a kid.

0:03:48Jesus Christ.

0:03:49I'm so tired of words.

0:03:52I'm just gonna stop saying things.

0:03:54It's just, I give up.

0:03:56I give up, I'm just gonna make grunts

0:03:57and maybe sing a humble little tune.

0:03:59But no matter what you say,

0:04:02I made a crack last night on the Twitter

0:04:03about how I wish Netflix, in streaming five seasons of MASH,

0:04:08the five good seasons of mesh,

0:04:09how I wish they would have it without the laugh track.

0:04:13And oh my God, I got so many responses from people,

0:04:16on the one hand telling me how that's physically impossible

0:04:19since it's hard coded.

0:04:20And then other people going,

0:04:22"Sir, did you know that you could err the DVD tracks?"

0:04:25I was like, yeah, you know what?

0:04:26I know all of that, I know all of that.

0:04:28I was just making a joke.

0:04:29It's just, it's an ephemeral comment.

0:04:31It's okay, everything's gonna be fine.

0:04:33You must get that like to the 10th power,

0:04:35especially like when you're being jokey about

0:04:37sports, technology. You must get so many

0:04:41wackadoodle responses from people.

0:04:44It goes and flows. I can never predict though.

0:04:46Like I'll

0:04:47post some kind of, you know, absurd tweet and I think, "Oh God, I'm gonna get so many

0:04:51people who take this seriously."

0:04:53And then there's nothing. And then I throw one out that I'm not even worried about and

0:04:56everybody, you know. Jon, there is absolutely no way

0:05:00to know.

0:05:01I make a lot of news-related "Your Mother" jokes and every time I expect

0:05:06incredible blowback. Nothing. That's fine. That's awesome. I make one crack about

0:05:10Mash having a laugh track and like the entire peanut gallery rises as one. But

0:05:15you know it's it's good. I'm just tired of words.

0:05:18What was the deal with Mash's laugh track? The way I recall it is season one

0:05:22there was no laugh track and it was a ratings it was it was precipitous that

0:05:28it was like the ratings were so bad that it was on the border of not coming back

0:05:32for another season and that they one of the one of the changes they made between

0:05:36season one season two is they added a laugh track yeah I don't I remember

0:05:41having read because you know it most people who enjoy the mass show it's a

0:05:46pretty hot topic because you can on the DVDs I don't own the DVDs I hate DVDs I

0:05:52hate physical media I don't want them in my house I mean that's me that's my

0:05:55Court of Last Resort like I've got I've got all the James Bond films like

0:05:58everybody you know I bought that hundred dollar blu-ray package I got that I got

0:06:03the Godfather and then I think I got a Dora or something like that but that's about it

0:06:07and but yeah they had an alternate track where you could have the audio without the laugh

0:06:12track I don't remember exactly how it happened except I mean think about the time what is

0:06:16that 72 73 something like that where every every like three camera sitcom had a live

0:06:23audience like you got your all in the families and stuff and I think you know it probably

0:06:29seemed a little dead to people and some of the humor is probably was probably a

0:06:33little bit dry it's just that it suddenly became not very dry when

0:06:37there's a very obvious laugh on it I just I really hate laugh tracks yeah

0:06:40they just they drive me crazy and you can actually go and you know if you know

0:06:44where to go I know you don't do these things but you can find copies of it and

0:06:48it is actually a pretty different experience you go watch my favorite

0:06:51episode Abyssinia Henry the one where Henry leaves you remember that episode

0:06:56It's the end of season three.

0:06:58I'm sure that it's...

0:07:00It's the one where he dies, he gets shot out of the air, and it's the episode right before Trapper leaves.

0:07:06It's the end of the season, and it's got that amazing scene at the end where Radar walks into the operating room and reads the notice that Henry's dead.

0:07:14It's incredibly moving. And watching that episode without the laugh track is a real different thing, because it's one of the great episodes of TV.

0:07:21and you know you know it's good maybe in a way that people at that time wouldn't

0:07:26know it's good so it feels a little insulting you know to have to put all of

0:07:30that on it's not super loud like on some shows like 90 shows where the left track

0:07:35got so loud but yeah but it always felt to me even as a kid and and growing up

0:07:41in an era when all sitcoms had laugh tracks or as live studio audience and

0:07:46even though one's at live studio audience you know that they were the

0:07:48the laughter pretty loud sometimes yeah it always seemed incongruous because it

0:07:54clearly was not shot in front of the live studio audience it was shot on real

0:07:58you know like a soundstage yeah like you know in that case of mash it's like

0:08:03they're shooting it outdoors there's not people on bleachers there right and the

0:08:07production values were always such I mean clearly in hindsight I mean

0:08:10everybody knew it was a smash hit eventually it became a smash hit you

0:08:13know after a couple seasons and it was you know like it was always like I think

0:08:18it was always like number one or number two was 60 minutes you know it was

0:08:21always like a fight which was gonna be the top-rated show of the week and at a

0:08:24time. 60 minutes man that was a juggernaut remember that was just like almost always

0:08:27it was it was 60 minutes or something else for a little while it was always 60

0:08:31minutes. It was always number one or number two it felt like your civic

0:08:34obligation as an American was Sunday night at 7 everybody you know from 7 to

0:08:3970 would sit down and watch 60 minutes. Mm-hmm yeah the other thing that's funny

0:08:44about mash is and this is you know it sounds nasty I don't mean it to be but

0:08:48it's funny the that you know like three of the stars of that show left because

0:08:55they wanted a better deal or they wanted more attention you know Wayne Rogers as

0:08:59trapper mclean Stevenson you know he was done with it and later on Larry Linville

0:09:03had decided he was done with the Frank Burns character and you know none of them

0:09:08ever found anything approaching that again it's such a bummer oh what was the

0:09:13guy who replaced Frank Burns Winchester right yeah he was yeah and he was there

0:09:19was tough it was a tough one because what you could tell Winchester was

0:09:21actually a good surgeon yes we knew Frank was a you know it was a good show

0:09:30it was good that your it is interesting it's interesting in so many ways it was

0:09:34a good movie that started it and then they you know didn't have any of the

0:09:38any of the same actors from the movie come.

0:09:41- We had Gary Burghoff was in the movie.

0:09:44- Oh, Radar.

0:09:45- Radar, yeah.

0:09:46And the first season is much closer

0:09:49in the kind of anarchic spirit.

0:09:52- Yeah.

0:09:53- It's much closer to the film.

0:09:55But yeah, it got, you know, like anything though,

0:09:57I think they kind of, they started this great thing.

0:10:00There was a great episode where Hawkeye writes to his dad.

0:10:03There's an episode called Dear Dad.

0:10:04- I remember that one, I remember that.

0:10:05- It was really good.

0:10:06It's from like, I don't know, first second season.

0:10:08And but then they did like, remember then they had like,

0:10:10Dear Peg, and then they had Dear Father Mulcahy writes

0:10:15and eventually, Alan Arbus, remember the psychiatrist,

0:10:19he's writing to Sigmund Freud at some point,

0:10:22like an open letter or something, it got really bananas.

0:10:25But it was a good show, I mean, it was really of its time.

0:10:28But by the end, it was just, it was so insufferable.

0:10:31Even as a flaming liberal, I can't watch that show.

0:10:33It's such a pantomime of, you know, politics.

0:10:36- I haven't seen it in a long time.

0:10:37I don't remember it petering out at toward the end and I remember the last episode was oh man was a tobacco with the chicken

0:10:44Oh, it's just and Hawkeye still haunts me still haunts me committed or something and yeah cuz the chicken chicken

0:10:51I don't know. I was always obsessed. That's another like lifelong obsession obsession for me and like a minor one is

0:10:57Final episodes of shows I'll watch the last episode of a show that I've never even watched just to see how they you know

0:11:03I like a last episode

0:11:04Yeah, and I I watched mash I you know, I watched it I watched the reruns, you know

0:11:10It was a staple in our household like flipping through the stations like waiting for dinner to be ready

0:11:15Everybody could agree we'd watch mash, you know, and the reruns were you know, like 530 or something like that. So it was

0:11:21You know and the reruns were still were on while the show was still wrapping up I think and absolutely absolutely

0:11:27Yeah, and I think their last episode for a long time was the highest rated like non

0:11:34Bowl type yeah definitely was yeah yeah it was like a national event and

0:11:39everybody was like what the hell was that kind of went on yeah how does it

0:11:46play now like watching any of those episodes with Jamie farce character what

0:11:53was his name clinger clinger clinger how could I forget that so clear for anybody

0:11:58who isn't familiar clinger was played by Jamie far and he did not want to serve

0:12:03in the army this is who doesn't know he was drafted he was drafted with these

0:12:08kids and he knew that there was something that you could get if you were

0:12:11mentally unsound to serve in the army you could get a dis get a section 8 or

0:12:16something section 8 so he's always angling for section 8 so how do you

0:12:19convince the army that you're crazy you dress like Carmen Miranda you're women's

0:12:23clothes right so he wore a woman's women's clothing all the time and you

0:12:28know it didn't work everybody knew what his stick was but he never let up on it

0:12:33so he still he still did his job that's the right he showed up just like a nurse

0:12:37but then he was a pretty good nurse that's part of the problem you guys I

0:12:40think you should undermine the basic task that you're doing or do them in it's

0:12:44such a bananas way that it's clear that you're crazy you know what I'm saying

0:12:47right hey you know it's it's okay I think the earlier seasons are better you

0:12:52know it's so funny with TV shows it always takes them a few episodes or a

0:12:55season to find their legs and then you know things kind of seem to go for a

0:12:59while I can't imagine doing a TV show it just seems so exhausting. Oh totally of

0:13:04any kind. Yeah. Whether it's you know like like like well like the this very day

0:13:11like yes last night was as we record yesterday was the day Jon Stewart

0:13:15announced that he was going to step down from the Daily Show and then it's like

0:13:20he said something during the show did you watch I watched and it was like no

0:13:23what'd you say I think he said he's been doing it for 17 years and I looked at I

0:13:26I was watching with Amy and I was like, "Well, that can't be." And then I was like thinking about it. I was like, "Holy shit."

0:13:30And then I'm like, "Well, of course he's gonna step down. He's been doing this show four days a week for 17 years."

0:13:36Yeah, and I know, I mean talking to in particular Hodgman and Rob Corddry about it, people

0:13:43I know who've been on that show and work with him all say the same thing.

0:13:46Which is that, first of all, he's a very nice guy and you know,

0:13:49he's a good guy, but also that he is one of the hardest, he's the hardest working person in the building.

0:13:56So when Hajim will go on there he would have like kind of a prepared bit and then I mean, you know

0:14:00He's I don't think he was the showrunner, but he he was involved in like every rewrite up until camp

0:14:06I mean like he was making everybody in the room better on every episode

0:14:10Can you imagine doing that for over 15 years like what that would take out of you?

0:14:13No, and I think that I have trouble ordering groceries and and this guy is doing that every single night

0:14:17I

0:14:19think it's very clear to that he you know and

0:14:25it put it in sports ball terms he's a good he was like a good passer in

0:14:29basketball like he was not concerned obviously he's the host of the show he's

0:14:33you know the one who does the whole first half single-handedly on on air at

0:14:37least obviously with the help of writers but as soon as anybody else is on

0:14:42whether it's a bit at the desk like a Hodgman thing or anything else it's he

0:14:47is so a hundred percent concentrated on making that other person look as good as

0:14:53as they possibly can and make sure that they get

0:14:56as many of the laughs as they possibly can.

0:14:59- I totally agree and I mean, you can look to our hero

0:15:02as like the paragon of that.

0:15:03I mean, Carson was so good, whoever that was,

0:15:08like whether that was Burt Reynolds

0:15:10or whether that was some grandmother

0:15:12that had done something crazy, he was so generous.

0:15:15I mean, I think even if he wasn't loving,

0:15:17I think Fred de Cordova would be the one

0:15:19who kind of stepped in and go,

0:15:20"Okay, we're ready to go to commercial."

0:15:22Carson would sometimes give him the hand signal.

0:15:24But he was there and fully committed

0:15:28to whatever was happening

0:15:29and wanted to make that person look good

0:15:31and it made everybody look good.

0:15:32- Yeah, exactly.

0:15:34So I was surprised, I have to say,

0:15:36just to commit to that the whole late night shuffling,

0:15:39I was a little surprised when Letterman announced

0:15:42his retirement that Jon Stewart didn't get that,

0:15:47or maybe he didn't want it.

0:15:50if he was thinking about stepping down from this,

0:15:53you know, on a daily basis,

0:15:54maybe that's just it, he didn't wanna, you know,

0:15:56he just didn't wanna do a daily show anymore.

0:15:58I always thought that Jon Stewart would be an excellent,

0:16:01you know, like Letterman's style show host.

0:16:06- Yeah, yeah, I agree.

0:16:08And, you know, it's funny to think about

0:16:09like what the world was like when Letterman started

0:16:11and it would be impossible to explain to somebody today,

0:16:15probably in the same way that Steve Allen,

0:16:17like to us, Steve Allen seems like an old guy.

0:16:19But Steve Allen's show broke the mold.

0:16:22I mean, there'd never been anybody on TV

0:16:24quite like Steve Allen, who was so kind of, you know,

0:16:26cultural and witty and smart,

0:16:29but also would do such crazy stunts

0:16:32and that had a huge influence on Letterman.

0:16:34And then Letterman comes along and, you know,

0:16:36they had that crazy deal with Carson.

0:16:38You know about all this, right?

0:16:39Like, they had a guy from Carson's production team there

0:16:44who basically made sure that he's like,

0:16:47"Okay, here's your show, here's the rules.

0:16:48Like you can't book anybody who's like one of Johnny's regulars.

0:16:52You know Johnny gets the first bite of any of these particular apples.

0:16:55There's all kinds of rules but that was a constraint that he worked and brought in Larry

0:16:59Budd Millman or he brought in Chris Elliott and that made the show so much more fun and

0:17:04so much weirder than if that awkward young David Letterman was trying to interview you

0:17:08know Madonna.

0:17:09Yeah I think most famously there were restrictions on the length of the monologue and so.

0:17:15Oh because that's Johnny's thing.

0:17:16it was Johnny's thing and so like on the old Letterman show

0:17:19Letterman would come out and do three jokes and they were so perfunctory like the the bit was almost like his complete disdain for the

0:17:27Monologue he would just come out and do three

0:17:29Really clipped perfunctory jokes and then it was on to the desk and the rest

0:17:35And you know the part that made it the part that made it funny every night was how terrible he made it seem like he thought

0:17:41It was like that was a terrible joke and him adjusting his tie and like the kind of face

0:17:46You know, that's what made it funny, right? So like they took the restrictions from Carson productions on the monologue and

0:17:51And I think eventually like I think once it settled in and it was very clear

0:17:56I didn't I don't think it took long for Carson and his people to realize that Letterman was no threat to Carson

0:18:02Like there was no way that that Letterman was ever going to steal his job, right?

0:18:08Right, like it's just not that type of person and you know, he was fine

0:18:11You know, I think you know, I famously he wanted it and when when the time came in when Johnny retired

0:18:16But he was never going to backstab him if his ratings had you know, they fight he's never seen

0:18:22He's never seen anything like completely grateful

0:18:24Like when he tells the story and I guess the first time he was on and got called over to the couch

0:18:29Like he honestly he still sounds like a kid like what a what a moving moment that was for him to get to do that

0:18:35Yeah, so I think that eventually I don't think it took long where if if he had wanted to do longer monologues

0:18:40I don't really think that the phone was going to ring in the Carson people were going to say hey,

0:18:44you know, you were, you know, you know, you're only supposed to do two minutes of monologue

0:18:47and you did 230 last night. But I think that they just embraced that anti monologue, you know,

0:18:53that that just became part of the signature of the show. Oh, yeah. And I mean, that's a beat it

0:18:57to death. But I think about the stuff that I remember, when I would hear somebody was going

0:19:01to be on, I would get so excited. And certainly there's famous scenes where like Drew Barrymore

0:19:06acted all crazy or Crispin Glover was all you know nuts that one time and tried to

0:19:10think he was gonna kick him those are famous but what do you really remember

0:19:13from the first three years I mean you you remember people like Harvey Pekar

0:19:17you remember people like Charles Grodin you remember you remember people being

0:19:21on there who or like Jeff Jeff Altman I love Jeff Altman like he would be so

0:19:27very 20-pound butt steak you know and that's what made the show and then like

0:19:33the prancing fluids and all that stuff that was the product of that probation

0:19:38like is what made the show good it would not have lasted as long if it had been

0:19:41just another show Harvey P car I haven't thought about him in maybe 20 years so

0:19:46Charles Grodin it was a bit yeah whenever Charles Grodin was on Carson or

0:19:50lettering you got that it was kind of a bit but Harvey P car genuinely seemed to

0:19:53hate Dave and hate the idea of being on the show at all right and was just a

0:19:58miserable person quite frankly it was not very attractive either so it wasn't

0:20:02really like you know people like looking at him and so I think any normal talk

0:20:07show would be like I don't know who booked him but they're fired and make

0:20:11sure we never have him back again whereas the letterman people like let's

0:20:13have this guy back on every couple months. Oh absolutely and it was true

0:20:17for I mean I think Jeff Altman is you know one of his great repeat guests I

0:20:22mean he would he loved having Jeff Altman on partly because I think I you

0:20:25know I have to tell you if you don't already know about this I'm cribbing

0:20:28some of this from a podcast have you heard the podcast the Carson podcast? No.

0:20:32Oh, you should know about this.

0:20:33There's a show this guy in LA does, this comedian in LA.

0:20:36I think it's called the Carson Podcast.

0:20:37And the whole podcast is him interviewing

0:20:40people who have some kind of an interesting relationship

0:20:42with the Carson show.

0:20:43Oh, shit.

0:20:44Yeah, it was great.

0:20:45So people like Jeff Altman, people like Bob Einstein,

0:20:49Super Dave, just all kinds of people.

0:20:52And then George Carlin's daughter was on.

0:20:54But it's a great insight into what you and I know,

0:20:58which is what an inscrutable person he was.

0:21:01everybody says the same thing.

0:21:02It was great, it was the greatest honor you ever had,

0:21:04but nobody, it was like two or three people

0:21:06who ever felt like they legitimately knew Johnny Carson.

0:21:09- Yeah, did you read the biography that is--

0:21:11- No, I saw that, we talked about that,

0:21:12I think one time we talked about that PBS show.

0:21:14- Oh, that was great, the PBS Masters episode.

0:21:17- That was terrific, yeah.

0:21:19- That was the best thing,

0:21:20and they didn't really try to get to the person.

0:21:24I mean, they acknowledged it,

0:21:25and they talked to so many people.

0:21:29was such a great thing the PBS master thing but it was kind of like almost

0:21:33like Citizen Kane where everybody like knew you know had the same regard for

0:21:37this purse but never really felt like they knew what made him tick you know

0:21:41and so anyway you might check out that podcast it's it's uh it's pretty good

0:21:45the book I forget is Henry something let me look it up here Carson biography

0:21:52Carson Henry let's see sounds like he'd you know he'd wrapped the show he Henry

0:21:58Michigan

0:21:59Okay, there we go

0:22:01And it's something he would never talk before the show there would be just a little bit right?

0:22:05It was just nobody he would not talk to the guests

0:22:07I mean he would get in the car and drive away and that was it. Yeah

0:22:09The the Henry Bush Kim book is uncomfortable to me because clearly it's a betrayal of

0:22:18Trust like there's no way he should be telling you store. I mean, it's unauthorized. Oh, yeah, definitely

0:22:25It's I mean, how could it be authorized? I mean Carson's dead

0:22:28But I mean, I don't think his family would have wanted it and I think if you had asked Johnny while he was alive

0:22:32Would you like Henry Bushkin to you know, write a book?

0:22:35Certainly not right, but on the other hand he did write it

0:22:38So I read it, you know, but I kind of felt I did I felt a little icky the whole time

0:22:42But there's some crazy stories in there. There's one story where I

0:22:45Forget if it was his wife or it was just a girlfriend

0:22:50But I think I might have been his wife and he Johnny thought is one of his you know

0:22:54Earlier wives this is when the show was still in New York and he lived in New York

0:22:56He figured out his wife was running around on him and he wanted to break into the

0:23:01Apartment it was her apartment, but he was paying for it. So he said it so it's got to be Lee

0:23:06I'm paying for it

0:23:07so it's legal we're breaking in and he got Henry but his took his lawyer with him and like two guys who could only really

0:23:14Be described as toughs

0:23:16thugs yeah and like and Henry Bushkin says in the book that the one guy even had a gun tucked in his belt and

0:23:23They go over there and like break into the place and find you know find evidence that she was running around on him and God

0:23:29But you know, it's like stories that you know, you don't expect your lawyer to write a book about that

0:23:33That's why you take your look. It's his lawyer that wrote the book. Yeah, it's his law. Oh my god

0:23:39That's that's not cricket man

0:23:43No, it's a good read. It's a good quick read, but it's

0:23:46Requesting from the library right now. Yeah, this is a guy, you know who needed some money, I think

0:23:52- Sure.

0:23:54- But he was, you know, but I guess the thing

0:23:56that made me think about it is that he was obviously,

0:23:58he was more than just his lawyer though.

0:24:00He became as close a friend as anybody could to him.

0:24:03They played tennis together, they were both tennis nuts.

0:24:06And they used to travel to, I remember that Johnny did this

0:24:10'cause I remember I used to watch tennis on TV sometimes.

0:24:12But Johnny would always, like for years,

0:24:14had an annual trip where he would go to Wimbledon.

0:24:16And Henry Bushkin and his wife went with him.

0:24:18It was, you know, like Johnny and his wife

0:24:20Henry Bushkin and his wife every year for like 15 years they went to England

0:24:25for like two or three weeks so I mean they were definitely close but even then

0:24:29even being that close that you vacationed with Johnny Carson for a

0:24:33couple of weeks every year it's like he still clearly didn't really know him that

0:24:36well and it yeah totally I think Pat McCormick the comic Pat McCormick who I

0:24:39think it worked on the show and was on a lot also was another one but even in

0:24:44interviews I think Pat McCormick I think was on that podcast but it's a lot like

0:24:48when you hear people talk about Sinatra you know where they're all talking about

0:24:51mr. Sinatra and like this deference like he'll come back from the grave and get

0:24:54you whacked like this there's still a lot of deference to Johnny and a desire

0:24:59to keep his legacy you know clean to the extent possible yeah I almost feel I

0:25:03mean you know not having ever seen the guy in person but my impression is maybe

0:25:08that like he just had was like a one in a one in a billion freak where the real

0:25:14Johnny Carson was the one who was on for 60 minutes in front of a camera sitting

0:25:19at a desk like that really was him and that it was the other 23 hours of his

0:25:23life where there was it was just nothing oh yeah I mean he's like he's like a

0:25:27comic book character right I mean you know where it's almost like Bruce Wayne

0:25:31is the secret I you know what I mean it's like Batman is the real guy in some

0:25:35ways and breathing is yeah exactly right and I feel like that might have been

0:25:39Johnny Carson and I feel like you know that's what made him so inscrutable and

0:25:44and off you know off camera yeah let's take a break I'll take a break and I'm

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0:28:12really cool I'm really proud of that guy and envious and I kind of hate him a

0:28:16little bit our friend Matt Alexander yeah what he's what he's doing is

0:28:20amazing like what he's done in such a short period of time I think he's about

0:28:2414 years old and he's half English so he's gotten past that and it's

0:28:30still astonishing to me like what that guy has managed to do that you know when

0:28:35he first described these projects to me and it just seems like there's more and

0:28:38more coming out all the time you know I was like well that's you know it's kind

0:28:41of cool it kind of sounds like a store like a small store but it's been a big

0:28:47hit it's it's really frustrating yeah and you wish you could do something like

0:28:51I do because I feel like I don't know I like it because it's real I feel I the

0:28:59things that impressed me as people come up with new ideas for businesses and and

0:29:03you know I like the ones that have something that you can touch the way we

0:29:09gotta buy a by film for your virtual camera I think it drives you nuts though

0:29:15right like that's not really that's not really a company I would say I would to

0:29:20actually say that the spectrum of the things that I tend to be most interested

0:29:24in are on the one side are real physical things like somebody who's making iPhone

0:29:29docks out of blocks of wood right I mean not all of them I don't like them all

0:29:33but I mean you know something like that where you're making a real thing and

0:29:38you're doing it real way and then the ones I like least would have to be the

0:29:41virtual fake real-world constraints you know the some of the some of the kinds

0:29:47services that are out there are so weird as I get more and more cynical about

0:29:54everything and a little bit more frisky about things like privacy like I you

0:29:58just see stuff coming down the lane you're like really like that's there's

0:30:01this thing remember every block remember did you get that sure that was Stephen

0:30:06Johnson and Wilson I think Wilson minor worked on that but it was a really

0:30:09amazing service super clean beautiful website that would basically aggregate

0:30:14all kinds of mostly public information about things like police activity, safety,

0:30:19I mean anything that you you couldn't care less for any neighborhood except

0:30:23your own but in your neighborhood you really care and it's incredible like I

0:30:26went in and I saw one time I called the cops about something and I could find

0:30:29that on the website it was really really cool but I think they contracted to be

0:30:33in only a few contracted as in like kind of sucked down to be just in a few

0:30:37cities now these other ones cropping up my wife got me to get on this one in our

0:30:41neighborhood. It's just it's so annoying. It's one of those things where you you

0:30:46sign up and you got to like give them tons of information. They want your phone

0:30:50number. They want to send a postcard to your house to verify that you you're you

0:30:53fine and then they automatically put your address on the website and then

0:30:57every page you're on there are call to actions and pop-ups telling you to go

0:31:02invite more people. It asks you to like you know bring in all of your on the one

0:31:06hand they're real careful about making sure who you are but then it's one of

0:31:09those remember like path kind of thing where they're like now don't you want to

0:31:12install and bring in all of your contacts and your Facebook people and

0:31:14it's like I am increasingly super uncomfortable with that as a business

0:31:18model it's gross as soon as they asked me for it I had just closed the window I

0:31:23immediately think well that's your business model and then I'm grossed out

0:31:26yeah yeah and I mean there's some kinds of things like say what you will about

0:31:29Google I mean like opening that Google app especially like when I'm out of town

0:31:33I was out of town last week it still kind of blows my mind how smart Google

0:31:37is, I know they're Google, but if there's anybody out there who is providing some value

0:31:42for the nonsense they do, you gotta give them credit. Like, "Here's the city you're traveling

0:31:45to. There's the temperature. Hey, here's your flight that just came in via email." That

0:31:50kind of stuff, I wish they were better with the privacy stuff in some ways, but that's

0:31:55a real value. They've done something very innovative to be able to do that at scale.

0:31:59But you can just feel on some of these websites where you just tell that they're young, it's

0:32:02a new company and it's all about building the user base and then leveraging as much

0:32:08personal information as possible. I don't know, it's kind of a boring thing to get into,

0:32:11but I find that really kind of gross and frustrating. I feel like enough of my stuff is out there.

0:32:16I don't need to go sign up for free services that are going to do that.

0:32:22you see there was an article I forget the guy's name a couple weeks ago on on

0:32:33Google the the the trade-off between if you if you give Google everything they

0:32:39want to know about you and buy into their stuff you get a tremendous

0:32:44experience out of it like if you've got an Android phone and you use the whole

0:32:49ecosystem and the apps right that kind of thing right like you know and like

0:32:53you said like and it definitely works I mean I don't buy into this it's

0:32:57certainly come a long way right but it's cool stuff like if you're using Gmail

0:33:05and you let you know then then you get your flight stuff into your Gmail and

0:33:09then they already know you have a flight because they've already parsed the email

0:33:12from your airline that says you're doing it and then your today view already has

0:33:17like you said, has the weather for San Francisco

0:33:20because that's where I'm flying.

0:33:21- Right.

0:33:22Or like I just got a pop up yesterday,

0:33:23it's like this shirt that you ordered for,

0:33:25a short order for my kid, they're like,

0:33:27it just shipped, here's the FedEx number.

0:33:28Like that's actually pretty useful.

0:33:30- Yeah, that's pretty awesome.

0:33:32So I mean, but it's like you said though,

0:33:36like I'm a little wary of it,

0:33:41but at least with Google, the exchange is very clear.

0:33:46it's okay you're gonna give up some of your privacy

0:33:48and they're gonna send you targeted ads.

0:33:51And that makes me a little uncomfortable.

0:33:53But in exchange, there's a very clear value proposition

0:33:56though, it's we're gonna give you stuff

0:33:59that you need to know, like your weather

0:34:00and reminders of things that you didn't even ask

0:34:03to be reminded of but that you would need to.

0:34:06And I think that's pretty interesting.

0:34:07Whereas with a lot of these startups,

0:34:09it's like they want the information

0:34:11and you know they're gonna sell it out

0:34:13and it's like I have no idea,

0:34:14Why would I give this to you?

0:34:16- Right, right, right, right.

0:34:18Yeah, absolutely.

0:34:19And yeah, anyway, it's probably kind of a thistle

0:34:21to get into, but then you look at something like Uber,

0:34:24where did you see the thing where they're lost and found?

0:34:27Database was like an unprotected spreadsheet

0:34:29on the internet with people's names and phone numbers in it.

0:34:32- No, I did not.

0:34:34- It's like, wow, that's pretty rough.

0:34:36The sharing economy thing is super interesting to me

0:34:42because I'm kind of surprised,

0:34:44really, especially in San Francisco,

0:34:45I am very surprised this stuff has gotten as far as it has.

0:34:48You know, you asked me 10 years ago,

0:34:50I mean, I live in a neighborhood

0:34:50where it's very difficult to get a cab anytime.

0:34:53And I've cursed the cab companies forever

0:34:55'cause they don't give a fig, they don't need to.

0:34:57They can just drive up and down Polk Street

0:34:59and make all the money in the world, drive to the airport.

0:35:01There's, you know what I mean?

0:35:02That's how it works in a city.

0:35:04But I never would have guessed

0:35:06that they would get away with that here.

0:35:07You know what I mean?

0:35:08It's such a strong kind of union town in some ways.

0:35:10such a strong town for like people who are protected.

0:35:13Uh, you know, interest like with the medallions and stuff kind of amazed that stuff has gotten

0:35:18as far as it has.

0:35:19I am too.

0:35:20I didn't know.

0:35:21I didn't realize that.

0:35:22Um, I don't know if you saw my tweet.

0:35:24I don't know a week or two ago.

0:35:26Um, there was an article like like lift start just started here in Philly and the article

0:35:31about lift was about how the whole thing like all the uber all the ubers in Philly are illegal.

0:35:38There's they're not supposed to be operating in Philly.

0:35:40It's like news to me, I've been using Uber and Philly for like two years. I had no idea.

0:35:44Isn't that kind of mind-blowing? It just seems like one low-level government functionary could

0:35:49walk into that office and just shut off the lights. But like so they, I mean black cars are obviously

0:35:55legal but not based on you know not through the Uber interface. But they're regulated.

0:35:59I mean I guess I don't know what it is but there's something like and we have UberX now too so we

0:36:04have the you know the amateur cab driver version. You meet some very interesting people with UberX.

0:36:10And the whole thing was about how Lyft, you know, Lyft's got the pink mustaches on the cars,

0:36:15which makes them so easy to identify. So, like, because they're illegal, like the...

0:36:20But it's not enforced by the police. It's enforced by the parking authority.

0:36:24The long arm of the parking authority.

0:36:26Right.

0:36:28But I've heard stories, I don't know if these are true, but I've heard anecdotes where people

0:36:31are like, "Okay, fist bump. Get in. Now put your bag in the trunk. We're friends. We've

0:36:35We've known each other since college.

0:36:38Because the Lyft experience is still a little on the bubble.

0:36:44Yeah, I'm not comfortable with it, really.

0:36:46Yeah.

0:36:47Yeah.

0:36:48Yeah, I'm not either.

0:36:49But out here, there's an article in the paper a week or two ago

0:36:54about how--

0:36:56I mean, I find this totally plausible.

0:36:58Uber drivers are making something like, on average,

0:37:00$10 an hour more than taxi drivers.

0:37:03there's been a utter diaspora of people leaving

0:37:07these taxi companies to go work for Uber,

0:37:09'cause there's just smart deal in it.

0:37:11- Yeah, I've done that, and when I first started using Uber,

0:37:14it was in San Francisco, because it was early days

0:37:17when Uber was new, and I don't know where the,

0:37:19maybe that was the only place

0:37:20where they were operating at first,

0:37:21but I remember thinking, well, this sounds weird, right?

0:37:25This sounds weird, but I'll try it,

0:37:27and I remember the first couple of times I got in an Uber,

0:37:29I would ask the driver, I was like,

0:37:31so how do you like this, do you like this?

0:37:33And two of never, never was the answer anything other than I love it. This is you know, this is great

0:37:38Oh, absolutely. And whereas if I get a cab ride, I've said this story elsewhere, but I recent last month

0:37:44I got a cab ride home from a gig and

0:37:46The entire time the guy had his right arm on the seat turning around facing me the entire trip screaming

0:37:52He's like an uber anti uber activist, but the entire ride like I'm you know

0:37:57three sheets to the wind and just trying to put my headphones on and nod and he really wants to talk about uber and and

0:38:02And it's the battle lines have been drawn.

0:38:05I tried using that app, but you know, curb, do you have that there?

0:38:08No, I don't think we do.

0:38:09There's an app, at least in San Francisco, that is the go-to app for ordering a cab in

0:38:15an Uber-like way.

0:38:16I've tried it three times and waiting 10 minutes, I've never even gotten a response that a cab

0:38:22would even be available.

0:38:23But just because I live out in kind of a crazy part of town.

0:38:26So I mean, it's, I don't love using it either and they kind of seem like dicks.

0:38:30I mean, no offense to Uber,

0:38:33but there's some pretty crazy decisions going on.

0:38:37- Yeah, I'll send you a link.

0:38:37Here's what we've got.

0:38:39This is our new thing is 215, get a cab.

0:38:43- Okay.

0:38:43- And it's clearly like,

0:38:46like the various cab companies have colluded to get,

0:38:52I mean, I'm not colluded in any legal way,

0:38:54but it's not just one. - Collaborated.

0:38:55- Yeah, it's in response to Uber.

0:39:00- It's just no doubt about it.

0:39:01It is in response to Uber

0:39:03and they've got it plastered all over all of their--

0:39:06- I'll bet.

0:39:07- All of their vehicles, two and five.

0:39:11- Remember that time and--

0:39:12- So I feel like the thing that's funny to me though

0:39:13is they want you to get the app, right?

0:39:15- Yep. - Get the app.

0:39:16And the app sees-- - Have the app,

0:39:17have the app before it occurs to you that you need a cab

0:39:20because you're drunk in an alley somewhere,

0:39:22like what are you gonna do, download an app?

0:39:24Like you need to have it on your phone already probably.

0:39:26- And it's a new thing,

0:39:27but they've come up with the name is a phone number.

0:39:29Like it's still the 80s and you've got to go over, you know, does anybody have a quarter?

0:39:34Give me a quarter, I got a call to get a cab.

0:39:36- Right, you can just imagine the meeting where like,

0:39:38all right, we'll do the app,

0:39:40but it's gotta be the phone number.

0:39:42- Right, and so their website is 215getacab.com.

0:39:47- For some reason I'm reminded of,

0:39:50I wanna say like in the early 2000s,

0:39:52when, you know, the dotcoms had already started,

0:39:54the dotcom like retail.coms, thepets.com and all,

0:39:57it was clearly like things were a little rocky,

0:39:58But there are more and more places that wanted to look like

0:40:01an e-business.

0:40:02And I think a lot of them were basically just like a CGI

0:40:05or a Perl script that sends something to a fax machine.

0:40:08You go in and you fill out a form.

0:40:10You do not have any sense that anything electronic

0:40:12was happening at all.

0:40:13You know what I mean?

0:40:14Not like today where you can like track things

0:40:15and stuff like that.

0:40:16I think it used to be pretty Rube Goldberg

0:40:18to start a company like that.

0:40:19- Right, yeah, I like the idea though that,

0:40:21I think it was probably was true though

0:40:23that a lot of places where you could order online,

0:40:25it would generate a fax.

0:40:26- Oh, that's how it works now.

0:40:28If you order a lot of food online, all it does is print something out.

0:40:30I mean, obviously, that's the installed base.

0:40:34It just prints something out next to the cash register.

0:40:37I don't know, man.

0:40:39Should we talk about vaccines?

0:40:44Oh, come on!

0:40:47Oh, man!

0:40:51Well if we end up, I was telling a friend of mine what our nominal topic for today was,

0:40:56which I'm very excited about.

0:40:57And my friend responded by saying,

0:40:59you are gonna get so much email.

0:41:02- Oh, we probably are.

0:41:02- So we might as well jam it all into one episode.

0:41:05Yeah, vaccines.

0:41:07- So the thing that got me about the vaccines

0:41:09with it being back in the news again

0:41:12is like, it's everywhere now, right?

0:41:16It's percolated up to like the national consciousness

0:41:20and it's on the news every day now and all that stuff.

0:41:22And I was like, why?

0:41:23Why all of a sudden?

0:41:24I mean, this is not a new thing.

0:41:25I mean, this is only a story if there's a controversy, right? That's that's the thing. I couldn't just go these people are dumbasses

0:41:31I will have to say well, there's still a couple scientists that haven't definitely decided on this

0:41:36It's and I realized it's obvious. It's all because actual people got actual measles at Disneyland and

0:41:43I didn't really put I saw this story and I thought well

0:41:47Of course

0:41:48They are did because there's a bunch of dopes who aren't getting there's so many people

0:41:52Who aren't getting their kids immunized? Of course, there's an outbreak of I wasn't I was so unsurprised right that there was an outbreak of measles

0:41:58It's Disneyland that I it seems like a perfect place for there to be a measles outbreak given the conditions

0:42:04I I couldn't believe that it was news, you know

0:42:07Whereas it's clearly is like the eye-opener for a lot of people like oh my god

0:42:12You know if you don't get your kid in it just seems like that's a big part of the conversation is

0:42:16Holy shit, if millions of people don't immunize their kids these kids can get measles

0:42:20like that seems to be our national conversation yeah it's really

0:42:27frustrating it's yeah I don't know what to say I also saw I saw an interesting

0:42:34poll on on by by age whether you support mandatory immunization and it drops off

0:42:41so precipitously it's like 70 year olds it's like almost universal support 60

0:42:45year olds very high 50 40 kind of high and then when you well like once you

0:42:49get in her 40s and 30s it's lower and then you talk to kids in their 20s and

0:42:53it's like they you know it's like 15% support mandatory that doesn't mean that

0:42:58they don't think people should do it they're just saying it shouldn't be

0:43:00mandatory but I think that the reason that it's age it's like it's like

0:43:04reading to your kid that's one of the things it's a good idea but yeah I don't

0:43:07really technically have to do that that's the idea like yeah you don't have

0:43:10to do that I don't have to give my kid a measles shot well the reason it's age

0:43:13specific though is so obvious it's because older people remember what it's

0:43:17like when your neighbor had polio right are they remember parents age who made

0:43:21it through the depression and watched a neighbor on one side of them lose three

0:43:26kids right or a sibling even right I mean we said my grandmother lost a

0:43:31sibling - it flew in the I think you know right right around World War one

0:43:36right so they've saw and then all of a sudden big scientists come out with just

0:43:42a shot that makes your arms sore for a day and then you'll never get polio of

0:43:47of course they support it. Yeah I don't know I'm trying so hard to grow as a

0:43:53person John I'm trying really hard to be sympathetic and understand everybody's

0:43:58position but it it's one of the things I think we talked years ago about the

0:44:03thing remember the you told me this remember that there was that poll that

0:44:05something was what was the percentage of people who were thoroughly convinced

0:44:09that Obama is not eligible to be president even late late late in that

0:44:15in that rumor, it was still like 40% or something ridiculous of people. And it's like there's the

0:44:21thing is there's a you know there's there's a I've been reading this book that I'll apparently

0:44:29mention on every podcast called the wisdom of insecurity by Alan Watts and he makes a

0:44:33distinction in that book that really hit me. It makes a distinction between faith and belief,

0:44:36which I found very persuasive with the idea that you know faith is a thing that we all have. Yeah

0:44:42or sight unseen things that we, there's some part of us that has faith that these kinds of things

0:44:48could happen, that there might be a heaven or whatever. Which is really different from belief,

0:44:51because belief is a kind of a more dangerous thing. Because belief is where, you know,

0:44:55there's not really that much to even discuss. Like, I've decided that this is how things are,

0:45:01and nothing is going to talk me out of this because now it's become part of who I am.

0:45:04Now I am a person who believes this about vaccines, or believes this about Obama.

0:45:08And, you know, I think that can become very internalized. You and I probably have things

0:45:12like that that we're not even aware of but you know that's the dangerous part

0:45:15and there's no what we dumb liberals don't understand is there's no way there

0:45:20are never gonna be enough infographics Venn diagrams or horrifying maps to

0:45:24convince people of anything different I mean Jesus Christ we had George W Bush

0:45:28in the White House for eight years people will believe anything well one of

0:45:32the things that's interesting about the I think the whole immunization thing is

0:45:36very sad and for anybody who's listening I do have enough listeners I'm sure that

0:45:39there's got to be some of you who should stick to computers. Yeah, stick to computers who have

0:45:44children who've chosen not to immunize. I do. I think one of the things that's I so I wanted to

0:45:50I want to be a big person. I want to be as I don't want to be insulting, but I think one of the

0:45:56things that's fascinating about it is that it has no traditional political divide. It's not a liberal

0:46:01thing or a Republican thing or a conservative thing or a rural thing. It's like all over the map.

0:46:08it's you know it's like when they poll i saw one poll that was like exactly 50 50 where like

0:46:12they talked to i don't know however poll sample size number of parents who chose not to immunize

0:46:19their children and who did you vote for in the last election and it was like 50 50 split really

0:46:24yeah i had no do you think the reasons why they differ are different would they agree on the

0:46:30reason why they decide not to do that i you know i don't know but i remember one of the big reasons

0:46:37that it really caught on was I remember reading the article it was Robert F

0:46:42Kennedy jr. wrote like a feature magazine length article I don't know if

0:46:45it was for the Atlantic or one of those magazines like that you know back when

0:46:52there was that one ingredient in the I mean you know that they were yeah I

0:46:56thought we worried we worried about that I'll be honest with you yeah well Jonas

0:47:00was around that age I mean it was at the height of it it was I think when Jonas

0:47:04was he just turned 11 so I think when Jonas was getting that's like his first

0:47:09year immunizations was before I think it was before that one paper in Britain had

0:47:17been debunked oh the Lancet article right I think it was before it was

0:47:21debunked so it was definitely you know it was a thing I don't know we were a

0:47:25little you know I I didn't really put creeds into it but I you know I was it

0:47:30I just remember it being a thing. We talked about it.

0:47:33We ask a lot of questions, for sure. And they were very sober about it and actually

0:47:39like oddly patient, like you have to be with a new parent. Because we pretty much knew we were just

0:47:43going to have the one kid. It's like we don't get a lot of shots at this, so to speak. And we,

0:47:48it was important to us to know that kind of stuff. I don't feel dumb for asking those questions

0:47:53because they were very, the doctor was very straightforward about it. It's the same thing that

0:48:00a lot of sensible people understand, which is like there's risks to everything in life,

0:48:03but what we can tell you is the risks associated with vaccination are nothing compared with the

0:48:10very demonstrable risks of not vaccinating. Yeah, as an individual, I think in terms of risk

0:48:15analysis or cost benefit, it's not even a comparison. Right, and then I, you know,

0:48:21especially when it comes to your kid, I think it's almost human instinct, at least in our modern

0:48:26world where we're very as parents we're very selfish about our children that we

0:48:31want will do anything for our kids and you know if you could prove that your

0:48:37kid might be better off without as an individual would be better off without

0:48:41immunizations versus the whole civic responsibility the herd you know the

0:48:46herd meant the herd advantage of getting everybody immunized I can see it and I

0:48:52think that's the basic thinking that's going on behind the people who chose not

0:48:55to immunize their children that they're they value you know that they believe

0:48:59some kind of bad thing can happen from the immunization right and regardless of

0:49:03what it means but that's a sticky idea that's a very durable idea whether or

0:49:07not it's true or accurate I can certainly understand why it's something

0:49:11that that I mean I don't agree with it but I get why that's something that

0:49:15people feel is a big risk you know but think about this I mean this is

0:49:19something where I think we all have a I feel like I have a lot in common with

0:49:23other people which is you know I've grown so I'm skeptical so cynical about

0:49:28all the turns out announcements about what's dangerous and you know there's

0:49:32been numerous you know articles over the years talking about the crazy history of

0:49:36stuff like the the food pyramid right the USDA's food pyramid you're not USDA

0:49:41so what it is what's the one that puts out the food pyramid like in the 70s

0:49:44we'd like make sure you have tons and tons of bread and you know what I mean

0:49:47and then it was so USDA you I but it was very much apparently very much formed by

0:49:53these different industries not to be like a nut or something but your body

0:49:57was never meant to handle this much corn my god no one's supposed to jam this

0:50:01much corn into their hole it's nuts and then what happens to be old fats the

0:50:05enemy okay so quit eating eggs all right so now fast the enemy so let's have

0:50:09snack wells so everyone sits around and eats fat-free brownies with three cups

0:50:12of sugar in it oh wait a minute no it turns out sugar is actually the enemy

0:50:15and so forth look no further back than in the last decade look at fucking water

0:50:19bottles. Do you follow this at all? No. Like what used to be you're like oh you're

0:50:24killing the environment with all these cups so for God's sakes go out and buy a

0:50:27Nalgene bottle and you had to have a Nalgene bottle. Where's your Nalgene

0:50:30bottle? Those stupid plastic bottles. Oh no guess what? Turns out phthalates. Oh my

0:50:35gosh you're gonna die because you're doing the right thing. So now you should

0:50:38go and buy this kind of and now people are saying maybe those aluminum ones

0:50:41that we used to replace the Nalgene bottles are bad. You know what the trouble

0:50:44is it doesn't it kind of doesn't matter what is actually true accurate accurate

0:50:48or known. What matters is we are scared to hurt ourselves and our kids and we're always going to

0:50:53try and have the most recent information that we can find about what we should do about it.

0:50:57I mean you're not even supposed to put plastic in the microwave anymore. Like what do you put

0:51:01in the microwave? You know like throw the goddamn thing out if you can't put plastic in it. It's

0:51:05useless. Who doesn't? I'm not going to make a bowl to warm something up. I'm not a fucking monster.

0:51:10I remember coaching Little League a couple years ago. I am familiar with the whole water bottle

0:51:17thing now and it had something to do with I think it was phthalates and I don't know.

0:51:21I know baby remember baby bottles and phthalates.

0:51:23I it's like it made me feel like time traveling dad from the 1950s you know like I'm just trying

0:51:31to make sure none of these kids get hit in the mouth with a baseball right number one I don't

0:51:37want anybody getting hit in the head with a baseball it's a constant fear you've got 12 kids

0:51:42and at some point at least two of the 12 invariably are not paying attention to the game

0:51:47and therefore are at risk of getting hit in the head with a baseball, which is bad.

0:51:51So it's, you know, every game...

0:51:52We can all agree on that.

0:51:54Every game is two hours of non-stop. 95% of my attention is don't let any of these kids get

0:51:59hit by a baseball. And then 5% of my attention is let's, you know, try to score some runs and

0:52:04get some outs and maybe win the game. And in the meantime, there's this whole thing with the other,

0:52:08all the other, I mean, not just moms either. It's moms and dads, and they're all talking about like,

0:52:12"Oh, you got to get rid of that bottle. That bottle, you can't drink out of that."

0:52:15Everybody's an expert.

0:52:17And I'm just like, just give the kids some goddamn water.

0:52:20I don't know.

0:52:20When I was a kid, we'd finish each game

0:52:23with 50 of those little--

0:52:26Conical juice boxes.

0:52:27Oh, sure, the water cups.

0:52:29Yeah.

0:52:30The conical paper cups.

0:52:31You just leave them on the field.

0:52:32Let the Indian clean them up.

0:52:34Exactly.

0:52:35You didn't even have to clean them up.

0:52:37Yeah, totally.

0:52:38Totally.

0:52:39And I mean, it is funny, given how you and I already

0:52:42come from a pampered generation in so many ways.

0:52:46We're probably the last generation that has a chance of doing better than our parents in life.

0:52:50But, um, for a while anyway.

0:52:52But, you know, I mentioned this a lot, but like some of my, I'm not, okay guys, I'm not advocating for this,

0:52:58but I have such, I wrote a thing about this one time.

0:53:00Just having this memory of our old green Pontiac, my dad driving around, smoking a butt with the windows down,

0:53:08and me like standing on the seat, like, or you could just stick your head out the window.

0:53:12You would just do all this crazy stuff.

0:53:13Seatbelts? You've got to be kidding me.

0:53:14Do we even have seatbelts?

0:53:15And now today my daughter doesn't do anything without a helmet.

0:53:18I mean, that's on me.

0:53:20I want to protect her head.

0:53:21But it is pretty wild how many people manage to survive that.

0:53:26Now at the same time, I was trying to explain to the best of my amateur ability

0:53:31what the world population is and how it works.

0:53:34I was saying to my kid, OK, I think there's like what?

0:53:36Coming up on 7 billion people, something like that.

0:53:38I was like, can you guess why that keeps going up?

0:53:41And my hints were, well, one of them is when mommies and daddies get together,

0:53:44what happens?" She goes, "Well, they have babies." I'm like, "Yeah, and when those babies grow up,

0:53:48and they become mommies and daddies, what happens?" And they have like three kids. And she's like,

0:53:51"Oh, I have seven more kids." And I was like, "But the other thing is, to our credit, I think,

0:53:56people die of less completely preventable random shit than when I was a kid." I've got to stipulate,

0:54:04thank God, for seat belts. They've made the road safer, the cars are safer, it's all safer.

0:54:08Everybody knew somebody that had died in a car accident when I was a kid. It was just a thing.

0:54:13It was cancer and car accidents killed and lung disease like killed everybody when I was a kid and they're all at least partially preventable

0:54:20Right a huge to a huge swath of car accidents are preventable. Well in addition to seat belts. There's the whole

0:54:26Have you seen the footage you had to that the difference in the crumple zones of like an old car in a new car?

0:54:32It's it's almost farcical

0:54:35Yeah, oh man those drivers ed movies. I still think about them. I've never unbuckled a dead man

0:54:40My mom took our Pontiac to the dealership. She took it to a mechanic and said, "Look,

0:54:48we bought this $8,000 car and it beeps when we sit in it if we don't put on the seat belt.

0:54:53Can you turn that off?" And he said, "Yes, I will turn that off for you."

0:54:55All right.

0:54:56Or you just leave it fastened all the time.

0:55:01My sister and I were not allowed to use the seat belts because we would mess them up.

0:55:05Like, you know what I mean? Like they wouldn't retract right anymore or that, you know,

0:55:11you get them twisted around.

0:55:12It used to be pretty basic the way that it would retract. You could like get it off the runner,

0:55:17like off the spool and it wouldn't go back in right.

0:55:19Right. So at some point one of us had gotten one of the ones in the backseat twisted in the,

0:55:25you know, the actual belt was twisted in the, what would you call it?

0:55:29That little cartridge kind of thing.

0:55:30Yeah, the cartridge that would slide to make it adjustable.

0:55:32- I know exactly what you mean.

0:55:33They were really primitive.

0:55:35They didn't snap into place very well.

0:55:36And it was very easy when feeding it back.

0:55:38It would be like a roller blind,

0:55:42getting slightly off track at the beginning

0:55:43and then being way off track by the time it got to the end.

0:55:45- It's a lot, the only thing that's similar to it anymore

0:55:47are airplane seat belts.

0:55:49But it was a lot,

0:55:50the buckling connection was a lot more primitive.

0:55:52But the way that you could slide it on the belt,

0:55:54well, we'd gotten it twisted up

0:55:56and it took my mom a long time to unfix it.

0:55:58And so from then on, we weren't allowed to use seat belts.

0:56:02just let them go.

0:56:03It took her 15 minutes to get them untangled.

0:56:08So then that was it, no more seat belts.

0:56:10- What do you think is gonna happen with the vaccine stuff?

0:56:13Do you think it'll take a generation?

0:56:15Or does it take event generation

0:56:17or does it take a measles 9/11?

0:56:19Like what do you think will change and how

0:56:22in the next however many end years?

0:56:24- I've been thinking about, I don't think,

0:56:26I don't think there's any way to go back on it.

0:56:27And part of it is what we were saying a couple of minutes ago

0:56:31where you can't, you can come at them,

0:56:33like they've done studies that you go at them

0:56:35with the most factual, statistical approach

0:56:38of the relative safety of immunizations

0:56:41and the fact that, you know, how horrible it is,

0:56:45you know, measles can make you blind, kill people.

0:56:49I think they said, I think just 46 people a day

0:56:53die from measles around the world.

0:56:55Something like that, around the world.

0:56:57And you give them these facts,

0:57:00and the people who don't want to vaccinate their kids

0:57:02get the facts and they come out of it more convinced.

0:57:05- I heard this, I did hear that.

0:57:07But you know, facts are slippery things.

0:57:09And I mean, if somebody that you didn't trust,

0:57:11let's be honest, if somebody you didn't trust

0:57:13that you considered to be a mouthpiece for an organization,

0:57:17some kind of like the Laramie cigarettes guys

0:57:19on The Simpsons, if somebody came to you

0:57:21with some information and you knew

0:57:23that they were compromised,

0:57:25even if they gave you what they presented as facts,

0:57:27you wouldn't listen to them.

0:57:29or you probably wouldn't go look

0:57:30at the primary research, right?

0:57:31I'm the same way, I know what I believe,

0:57:34I know what I think is BS.

0:57:36It's just that, right back to that,

0:57:37I think we've talked about this every time,

0:57:38that Lakoff book, "Don't Think of an Elephant."

0:57:40If you have a certain mental model for how reality works

0:57:44and what relationships are

0:57:45and how you determine what's real

0:57:47and that overrides or supersedes new information

0:57:51by an order of magnitude, right?

0:57:52I mean, it's gotta, I mean,

0:57:54the way that you have conducted yourself in the world

0:57:56for however many end 30 some years whatever is likely to have such

0:58:01I totally buy that you know and what your family believes

0:58:04and what the people around you believe what the people your church believe it's

0:58:07constantly being reinforced because that's part of your tribe that's

0:58:10what your tribe believes and there's no reason not to i mean we've all got

0:58:13tribal things like that right yeah like you like the stupid you like the

0:58:16dallas cowboys you've got problems of your own

0:58:19that's part of the problem though is that there's there is a sort of tribal

0:58:22behavior where the the kids who are not immunized tend to be clustered because it spreads and you

0:58:30become friends you know i mean we're not like super buddy buddy with any of the other parents

0:58:33at school but you talk to them and you know and it's like it becomes like a thing where like now

0:58:39like i forget what the the percentage is in marin county but it's just ridiculous marin's got a lot

0:58:44of weird outliers marin also has a used to have as far as i know like a improbably high rate of

0:58:50breast cancer. And I imagine there's ways that you could come up with why that is that don't involve,

0:58:56you know, high power lines or something. It could be that they're getting detection better or

0:58:59something. I don't know. But yeah, Marin's a thing. I remember Scott Simpson said something

0:59:07made me laugh a long time ago when he had a kid and I didn't at the time have a kid. I think it

0:59:10was a toot he had back in the Fevard days. He said something like there's two kinds of parents.

0:59:18Like there's the helicopter parents that are more protective than me and I hate them.

0:59:23And then there's the parents who are totally careless with their kids and I hate them too.

0:59:26The way you evaluate everything is based on what you think. Everybody else is either too permissive

0:59:32or too strict.

0:59:33>> It's so totally true.

0:59:34>> It's true, they're just a bunch of assholes.

0:59:36>> Right.

0:59:37Their kid's an asshole, he doesn't even know how to tie his shoes.

0:59:42And then there's the other kid who's reckless.

0:59:44>> Look at that guy.

0:59:45>> What's wrong with these parents? They're maniacs, their kid's a menace.

0:59:47Geez, come on kid, it's a jungle gym, let the kid play. Oh my God, I can't believe you let him get

0:59:52on the jungle gym. Or even with what we want to talk about later, like with movies, like I cannot

1:00:02believe they let their kid watch that. Or I can't believe that they don't want us to let him watch

1:00:06Harry Potter. Oh, this is what makes it. I texted you about this this morning. I know we're not

1:00:12getting into it just now, but the way I tried to phrase this to my daughter, and we'll come back to

1:00:16this was like, you know, it's not just a matter of like, you know me, I like a facet. I like,

1:00:21as they say in academics, I like problematizing. I like taking something that seems obvious and

1:00:24figuring out how it's actually a mess. And so like with kids in media, it's not just like,

1:00:29what do you show your kids? It's like, hmm, it's like, well, what kinds of stuff do you

1:00:33show your particular kid at what point in their life, in what context, et cetera, et cetera, et

1:00:40cetera, because we all know every kid's really different. I mean, anybody with two kids,

1:00:44There's a kind of people who say,

1:00:45Google's this kind of company,

1:00:46Apple's this kind of company.

1:00:48If you said to them, your three kids are identical,

1:00:50they'd hit you in the face.

1:00:51(laughs)

1:00:52'Cause all their kids are special flowers.

1:00:54So I know we'll come back to that,

1:00:55but oh, we're gonna get so much email.

1:00:57- We're gonna get a lot of email.

1:00:58Let me take a break.

1:00:59Let's take a break and thank another one of our sponsors,

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1:01:39to come over with a key to let you please,

1:01:41if I could, could I please have some razor blades?

1:01:44- It's like when you remember when the compact disc stores

1:01:47used to lock the CD.

1:01:49- Oh yes.

1:01:49You know what I love?

1:01:50I go to my Walgreens seven times a day

1:01:52and when I go there to buy some goddamn razor blades,

1:01:54and I am a Harry's user now, to be honest,

1:01:56but when I go in there to get like,

1:01:57if I'm traveling and I wanna bring

1:01:59this particular razor with me,

1:02:00I go there and it's the same dingus kid

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1:02:09He's like, "Are you ready to check out now?"

1:02:10I'm like, no, I wanna walk around the store

1:02:12and steal stuff for a while.

1:02:13No, he's got to walk me.

1:02:16- Right.

1:02:16- The assistant manager wants to walk me to the counter

1:02:19so that I don't steal his precious Gillette's.

1:02:21No offense.

1:02:22Oh, it's the worst.

1:02:24- I, one time I had to, I was at your neck of the woods.

1:02:28I was in San Francisco for one of these Apple events

1:02:30or something like that, and oh, I forgot my toothbrush.

1:02:33Well, that's the sort of thing, I cannot,

1:02:37I think not brushing your teeth for two or three days.

1:02:40your mouth would feel horrible. You gotta take care of it. I guess I probably should have just

1:02:43called down the front desk at the hotel and seen if they could do it. But I thought, well,

1:02:46I gotta go out anyway. And I went on right there on Market Street to, I don't know, what is it?

1:02:50Is it a, yeah, like a CVS or Walgreens? Yeah, I forget what they get, you know, but I go in there

1:02:55and the goddamn toothbrushes were locked behind those. What? Yeah. Because I guess people steal

1:03:00toothbrushes. I ran out of deodorant. I went to buy deodorant yesterday. All the deodorant was

1:03:05under lock and key. So I got to call some kid to come over and unlock a little deodorant jail

1:03:10to open it up for me and then walk me to the counter like an animal.

1:03:13PAUL Right. And they wonder why we're buying all our stuff from Amazon. Well, anyway,

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1:03:45have, they have these subscriptions. I don't know. They call them shave plans. You go there

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1:04:06you want to stop shaving you want to switch to another brand you can just

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1:05:25from our friend Dave over at man he was looking through his refers his refers

1:05:32over at mad.com they sponsored a whole slew I love their sponsorships oh my god

1:05:38that was the best sponsors ever I said still blows me away what they did with

1:05:42the Darren fireballs like the four oh didn't do like a was like a 404 page or

1:05:45something they once the one way they did like three straight weeks and the one

1:05:48was a was a it was a typo and they wanted a typo into URL so it went to a

1:05:53a 404 page. And so they got one referral, it looks like a Google Analytics screenshot they

1:05:59posted. Right, they had one that was just the title of the link was an ellipse. It's

1:06:06just three dots and then it just said the message that only went in the feed it just said in this

1:06:11week before Christmas we thought it'd be nice to take our daring fireball sponsorship and not pitch

1:06:15you on anything enjoy the holidays meh. And they didn't have a link it didn't it they signed it meh

1:06:20but they didn't link to their website there was no there was no URL it just

1:06:24went nowhere and then the week before was the one where they had the the ASCII

1:06:29art of a guy flipping a table right that said Amazon upside down like with those

1:06:37crazy Unicode characters that were happy holidays right which only made sense

1:06:42which is cool because it only made sense if you knew the backstory yeah that

1:06:46relationship yeah that they had started woot the same guys who did woot

1:06:50and they sold the Amazon and you ever read that story like Paul kafasa sleep

1:06:57oh yeah I think I think I did it it sounds like it was not ideal yeah it was

1:07:00like Amazon bought them and they didn't do well they weren't happy it didn't see

1:07:04my gam is uncared and and the founder had like a breakfast with Jeff Bezos

1:07:12Bezos yeah he's oh so whatever and you know basis is going on and on about

1:07:17whatever and he's like well look can I ask you a question he was like why did

1:07:20you buy whoo and it was like he just like stared at his like breakfast and

1:07:25there was like this one weird thing on his you know breakfast platter like a

1:07:29some weird vegetable he was like your thing was like this this piece of weird

1:07:35lettuce I didn't understand it so I wanted to buy it I didn't get it so I

1:07:41just wanted to buy it what a psycho yeah it seems like a real nut job he does he

1:07:46seems easy and like the whole story of like the Amazon the fire phone it just

1:07:50sounds nuts yeah that was some great reporting I forget if I talked about

1:07:55this on the show or if I just linked it up on during fireball but Austin Carr

1:07:58wrote that for a fast company and really really top-notch like if you want to

1:08:05bemoan the lack of actual reporting that goes on today man that's a great

1:08:09counter example because he really did the legwork he clearly got people who

1:08:13worked on that phone to talk and Bezos sounds like basically Bezos like it was his passion project. He

1:08:18dove in with both feet and I don't say micromanaged, but he like he had would not. He would not go off

1:08:25his decisions at any point, right? Like he was very decisive about exactly how this thing was

1:08:30going to work. It wasn't listening to anybody. Yeah, yeah, I think long story short. Well,

1:08:35how did the fire phone come to be? I would say long story short, based on Austin cards reporting.

1:08:40it was something to the effect of we should do a phone if we do a phone should it should either be

1:08:47really cheap or it should be asked if it's not really cheap then it has to compete with the

1:08:52iphone oh and the 3d it's got to do 3d right well that become like a thing that was the thing like

1:08:57so then the next step bezos was like well i want to compete with the iphone and because i think he

1:09:01wanted to make a phone that he would actually use right so like what's the point of like them making

1:09:05a cheap phone if they themselves are also going to use iphone so they wanted to they're going to go

1:09:08go high-end. Then the next step in the logical chain is well then we have

1:09:12to have a hook, right? There has to be something. If we're gonna sell a phone

1:09:15that's like four or five hundred bucks, there has to be something that is

1:09:19compelling about it. And Bezos latched on to this 3D thing, you know, everybody

1:09:25knows the basic, you know, that there's 3D interface that using accelerometers

1:09:28and four cameras on the front, you know, that it can, without any special

1:09:33glasses it makes like a fake 3d effect on the flat surface of the phone and

1:09:40there was like no budging him off that that's you know that's like our Siri

1:09:44that's our hook that we can advertise everybody's gonna go nuts for it and

1:09:48there was apparently a lot of internal skepticism that this would have any

1:09:52actual appeal like well what's the point it's a niche the gist of a lot of the

1:09:56people seem to think well it is a neat trick but what is the point and then the

1:10:00phone shipped and everybody said well it's a neat trick but what's the point

1:10:03but he stuck with it right well he printed up a lot of cardboard boxes that

1:10:09said buy a fire phone that was so weird the first time I got an Amazon box with

1:10:13that that on the tape I was like what I was like somebody sent me an Amazon

1:10:18fire phone I thought the same thing I thought the same thing because every you

1:10:21know and I thought it was believable for me because nobody's ever sent me a phone

1:10:27Like no company but like I do get some equipment to try you weren't in a sprint program back in the day

1:10:33No, I was in some well

1:10:35I've gotten I got the G1 from Google HTC was nice enough to send me that I remember that that was fun

1:10:41And but I was in this thing where Sprint would just they were sending bloggers like new phones every few months like in the days

1:10:47Before I wrote because it was around the time of the iPhone and I finally got this totally crazy looking one

1:10:53where it had screens on both sides and it was kind of meant to look like an

1:10:57iPhone but you would do stuff you would need to flip the phone around and use

1:11:00different keyboards and a touchscreen was totally crazy well but it's not

1:11:04outlandish to know that that somebody would send me a firefight and that's

1:11:07what I thought it was and it was a box it was a box that was about the size

1:11:10that a phone might come in I was like I cannot believe somebody sent me a

1:11:13fire phone and I opened it up and it was I don't know toothpaste so great all

1:11:20- All right.

1:11:20Should we do it?

1:11:24- Well, let's do one more thing and then we'll do it.

1:11:26Here's the other thing.

1:11:27I wanna go circle back on the vaccinations.

1:11:30- Oh, Jesus.

1:11:31- Well, not the vaccinations in particular,

1:11:33but to me, it's a product of the internet age.

1:11:36This is why I'm a little pessimistic about it getting fixed

1:11:39because I think pre-internet,

1:11:42there just wasn't enough information for people to do that.

1:11:46Like, your best source of information

1:11:48the health of your kid was what your pediatrician told you and if your pediatrician said we

1:11:52recommend these immunizations on this schedule well you know you're.

1:11:58And maybe you might rely on your family too.

1:12:01Right yeah.

1:12:02Think about like the things you hear about brand loyalty and how people who are pampers

1:12:06you know the mom used pampers so they use pampers and we're a Heinz ketchup family and

1:12:10so forth like you know I think a lot of people especially at a young and impressionable age

1:12:14having a kid take a lot of that from from what their family would say they'd be like

1:12:17Are you kidding me? You know, you know aunt Linda died because she wasn't vaccinated. Of course, you're gonna vaccinate your kids

1:12:23And it's you know that now though, you know

1:12:26Not that I'm not trying to say that pre-internet that nobody questioned their doctor, of course

1:12:30I mean, you know the second opinion is part of our vernacular, you know, of course people might question their doctor

1:12:36Especially if you know the recommendation was surgery or something like that

1:12:41But now it's so easy for people to just find what they want to find whereas you couldn't do that before and there's that

1:12:48Stencil it's a spray-painted stencil. It's all you know, you can't go anywhere without seeing it, but you see it everywhere

1:12:53This the saying stop making stupid people famous

1:12:56Right, which is trite, but it's true

1:13:00It is absolutely the problem of the modern age is that we've made a lot of stupid people very famous and not but I also feel

1:13:07think about something like WebMD and I don't think any of us can say we've

1:13:11never looked at WebMD when we're pretty sure we have cancer. Like you know there

1:13:15is also the the internet has empowered us to believe that we we can learn a lot

1:13:21on our own. I guess this is kind of what you're already saying but you know now

1:13:24we feel like there's this resource in the same way that we might not go spend

1:13:27several weeks at the library you know looking up carcinoma. Now today like

1:13:31we'll keep keep looking until we find the thing that makes sense to us. Yeah and

1:13:36And it's, you know, yeah, again,

1:13:38the worst thing you can possibly do

1:13:39when you have some kind of health problem is Google it.

1:13:41And it's, of course, the first thing that we all do.

1:13:43I mean, you can't help but do it,

1:13:45but it's the worst thing you can do.

1:13:47- Totally.

1:13:48- It's 'cause it's just gonna,

1:13:49now you have whatever your problem is

1:13:51and now you've got terrible anxiety about it

1:13:53because you've proven that you have, you know,

1:13:56something incurable.

1:13:57- Have you ever gone into a doctor's office

1:13:58with a printout?

1:13:59- No, I have not.

1:14:02- They do not like that.

1:14:03- Nope, but I'm not saying I wouldn't, though.

1:14:06I'm not saying I wouldn't I'm just saying I haven't.

1:14:08- I could see Amy doing a lot of research.

1:14:11I could see her being a very well informed

1:14:13with the kid stuff.

1:14:14I could see her being a very well informed parent

1:14:16on that stuff.

1:14:17- Yeah, I think she's very, she's hyper informed.

1:14:20- And hyper vigilant, right?

1:14:23Like she's got that EpiPen,

1:14:25she's like Marshall Dillon with that thing, right?

1:14:27- Yeah, and she does, she really does know

1:14:29an awful lot about it.

1:14:31Again, I think she'd be the first to tell you

1:14:33that she does not know more than our Jonas's allergist does,

1:14:37but she certainly knows a lot more than she used to.

1:14:40But I do think that that's, I don't know,

1:14:44I feel like that's a big part of the problem

1:14:46of the modern age is that you can,

1:14:48there's a, it's easy for anybody to have a soapbox

1:14:52and get more than just the people who can,

1:14:59in the old days if you were a lunatic,

1:15:02only the people within earshot could hear you.

1:15:05Now anybody can listen.

1:15:07- Yeah, it's funny.

1:15:07There's all these little,

1:15:08setting aside the dark web or the dark net or whatever,

1:15:11there's this one funny sort of source of information

1:15:16that's been around for a long time

1:15:17but still remains largely hidden from plain sight,

1:15:20which is forums or fora, I guess.

1:15:23There are so many places where if you Google

1:15:25for certain kinds of information,

1:15:27all kinds of certain kinds of information,

1:15:29you are very likely to,

1:15:32Somebody suggested for example, yesterday I was talking,

1:15:35I think yesterday I'm back to work talking about how I'm trying not to drink too much coffee.

1:15:38You know, I don't want to be too spazzy and somebody had recommended this stuff called L-theanamine or something like that,

1:15:44which is like a green tea extract or something.

1:15:46And so I went in and I googled it.

1:15:48And like so many results on forums where people are like saying the most outlandish things.

1:15:54But like I kept reading it.

1:15:56I immediately felt like, you know, I got to take all this with a grain of salt,

1:16:00but I still kept reading looking for somebody who sounded like they knew what they were talking about and I have no way of knowing if anybody's knows what they're talking about.

1:16:06I think it's a very common thing.

1:16:08Do you find that as I'm getting older and I find that I'm getting a lot more sensitive to things like having drunk too much coffee.

1:16:16Oh, absolutely.

1:16:18I don't think it's like I think it's actually more of like a self-awareness though than like not that I used to be able to metabolize more.

1:16:24more it's that I would drink too much coffee and wouldn't even notice whereas

1:16:30now I'm like wow my brain is bananas right now oh yeah I I talk about this a

1:16:35lot on the show with Dan I mean I have to be very circumspect about something

1:16:40that sounds unbelievable to me now which is that I have to be very careful about

1:16:45how much caffeine or stimulants in general I put in my body after about 12

1:16:49for one because they say the half-life or like that's mostly out of your body

1:16:53in like eight hours and that's not true for me.

1:16:55I'll just be laying, if I have a coffee at two,

1:16:57I'll just be laying there in bed with my heart beating.

1:16:59And so, and also, another thing I said other places,

1:17:03is I feel like I don't always get the same positive effects

1:17:05that I used to get, but I definitely still get

1:17:07all the negative effects.

1:17:09You know what I mean?

1:17:10Where I don't, it used to be where I was like,

1:17:12I'm young and virile and I can have Thai food and coffee

1:17:15at 11 at night, whoosh.

1:17:16And now today, like, that's just,

1:17:18that's a terrible idea for me.

1:17:20So yeah, the sensitivity, for real.

1:17:21yeah there's lots of stuff like that foods too I mean I

1:17:25anyway I make the same amount of coffee every day

1:17:28and I think it's you know it's like the right dose for me but then like

1:17:32I used to I don't really do anymore like sometimes I just get bored at four in the

1:17:35afternoon and think well I have another

1:17:36I'll you know go make one of these. I've done that my whole life that's exactly what I would do

1:17:39some people eat at three o'clock and I'm like I want to have a coffee

1:17:43I'll go make one I'll make one cup with the AeroPress and then I'll you know

1:17:46taste a little better

1:17:47and and then I'm you know at like six

1:17:51PM, I'm like, wait, I've been trying to read this 800 word article for half an hour.

1:17:56And instead, I've got 20 other tabs here. I really wanted to read this article. What happened to it?

1:18:01I totally had that this morning. I had two cups of coffee.

1:18:03Yeah.

1:18:05Well, and then I'm like, that's a freaking coffee. I should not have had that extra coffee.

1:18:10I did that this morning. I had two cups of coffee and I sat down to read the entire Wikipedia page

1:18:15on the history of the MPAA rating system, which doesn't seem that hard. It's pretty standard

1:18:20English I got like I got like two headings in and I was like let's ride

1:18:23bikes I you know I couldn't even concentrate so I'm slightly prepped but

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1:20:36All right, here's the idea

1:20:41What do you want to do out you you you mentioned it because it was actually your idea at first no

1:20:45You know, you can go ahead. Well the basic idea not to turn it into a parenting podcast, but it's it's

1:20:50the

1:20:52overarching dilemma of what movies

1:20:55Do you let your kids watch when like what age like where do you balance this and I have found it to be?

1:21:02Oh

1:21:05For the you know from the get-go right from when he was Jonas was old enough to just sit in front of a TV

1:21:10It's a vexing dilemma, and I never totally a moving target. I

1:21:15Totally and I never anticipated it being difficult. I

1:21:19Just always thought before I had a kid that at any given moment

1:21:23You could give me any movie or TV show and I could instantly tell you whether it was age-appropriate or not

1:21:28But it ends up being I think devilishly tricky. Well exactly right

1:21:31So, I mean the only thing I would want to establish is that you know, we went to college and stuff

1:21:35We understand that there are things like ratings. I think that the part that makes this so challenging

1:21:40is how different every kid is in terms of what they are sensitive to.

1:21:45What's likely to be problematic or you know to cause troubles and nightmares.

1:21:51It's not as simple. I would postulate it's not nearly as simple as

1:21:56just saying I'm gonna trust the MPAA because there are plenty of g-rated

1:21:59movies with stuff in it that a three-year-old, some three-year-olds, right?

1:22:02A given three-year-old should not see and if the parents know that like you

1:22:07know it's really good to avoid that I mean one that comes up a lot it's like

1:22:11scary music a genre of what's just called scary music like boom cellos we're

1:22:15going into the woods some kids that could watch somebody be decapitated

1:22:19freak out my daughter things jumping into and out of frame completely freak

1:22:24her out real oh yeah you know like in like a horror movie kind of thing like

1:22:27we're so I know you yeah like in the background pops up even in in any kind

1:22:32of a movie no matter how innocuous it can kind of freak her out so yeah

1:22:36- Yeah, exactly, it's not, the thing is it's,

1:22:38and then on the other hand there are some kids

1:22:40where like if you fast forward through this one scene

1:22:43or this other scene, they would be totally fine

1:22:45watching some PG-13 movies.

1:22:47And it's just, I think it's,

1:22:49I'm sure we both have some horror stories

1:22:51about terrible decisions, but also just,

1:22:54I think it's interesting to talk about

1:22:55'cause I think everybody wants to look like

1:22:57they're real smart about it,

1:22:58and I think almost everybody who lets their kid

1:23:00watch movies worries about it.

1:23:03Worries about getting the mix wrong.

1:23:05Yeah, and I'll give you one example from Jonas when he was young.

1:23:11And we, I would say on the grand scheme of things, we are relatively permissive and always

1:23:16have been.

1:23:17But I don't –

1:23:18You think?

1:23:19I do.

1:23:20I'm laughing because I used to shake my head when you would tell me things that you would

1:23:25let him do and now I do the same stuff.

1:23:28But also I really feel like a big part of that though was knowing what he was good with

1:23:33and he was good. I think with relatively advanced like violence in movies, you know he watched Star

1:23:41Wars very very young and you know I don't think that there I watched it when I was in kindergarten

1:23:46too. That was my thinking. I don't know. I was in kindergarten when it came out. I turned out all

1:23:49right. But I remember but you never know though there's always little things so one of the we

1:23:55let him watch the Pirates of the Caribbean movies at a very early age. And I think that those are

1:24:01PG I don't think they're PG-13 I don't know man they got some pretty spooky stuff well he didn't

1:24:05but the point is he didn't mind it no not at all except for one scene which is and I don't remember

1:24:11which one of them it's in but there's one scene where uh uh it must have been the first one where

1:24:19they're going after the gold that if you stole the gold you became a ghost or whatever and you had to

1:24:22drop a piece of blood and they cut somebody somebody takes a knife and just puts like a little

1:24:27like a PG rated cut on the palm of somebody's hand. Oh, yeah, and

1:24:31He it just flipped him out and he had like a fit and he was like we're like, what's wrong?

1:24:37What's wrong?

1:24:38And he just was holding his hand and he said like I can feel it I can feel it and he's just screaming

1:24:43Like it made him feel as though his hand had been cut but my kid will come

1:24:48Compulsively I was the word I'm looking for

1:24:51Well, like automatically like violently turn away from the screen whenever there's blood like, you know

1:24:55like a cut or something like that or like a wound. She absolutely turns away.

1:24:59RL Yeah, and so we –

1:25:00CB And so, it was like middle of the day, noon,

1:25:04me working at home like probably five, six years ago. And we both looked at each other like we just

1:25:13gave each other this look like, "Oh my God, what have we done? We've wrecked this poor child's mind

1:25:17by letting him watch this movie that we should have known he was too young to watch." But you just

1:25:23just never know. And then and and he would be good. He wouldn't

1:25:26refuse to watch that movie, but I'll tell you what he had it

1:25:29down stone. He knew exactly when that scene was coming up

1:25:33and he would run out and he would say what he used to say.

1:25:36He'd call it past past forward. My daughter would say fast over

1:25:41past. She says that he passed over that yeah anytime when

1:25:45they got to the point where in Toy Story two when Buzz has to

1:25:48at the beginning in the video game when he has to walk out

1:25:50across the floating disks.

1:25:52- Oh yeah, yeah. - Should I say daddy fast over?

1:25:55- Fast over, I like that one too.

1:25:57They're both good.

1:25:58Pass forward.

1:25:59- Oh my God, it's--

1:26:01- Jonas's list included the Wampa, no Wampa.

1:26:06- Oh, see, and that's a good, that's another example

1:26:08of a jumping into frame thing.

1:26:10- Yeah, you know what, that's it, yeah.

1:26:12'Cause, you know, and the suspense, right?

1:26:16It's 'cause the Wampa, the first time you see him,

1:26:21it's the shock air, right?

1:26:23Like Luke is like looking for comets or whatever

1:26:25to hit the ground and all of a sudden, boom,

1:26:28the Wampa jumps into frame and makes a terrible noise.

1:26:31So you've got that, right?

1:26:33That, and yeah, that, Jonas didn't like that.

1:26:36And Jonas wanted that whole, the whole thing skipped though

1:26:38because he also could not bear the suspense of Luke.

1:26:42- Hanging there like a side of beef.

1:26:44- Yeah, and not, you know, it's like the first time

1:26:46he's ever even tried to use the force to get a lightsaber

1:26:49and it's just sitting there jiggling, you know.

1:26:51It's like film school 101, you know,

1:26:53like how to build a little suspense, you know,

1:26:55jiggle the lightsaber, do this, the mute, you know,

1:26:58perfect, of course, John Williams score for the moment,

1:27:01which furthers the suspense, couldn't take it.

1:27:04It would just have like an aneurysm.

1:27:06- What about one that I was scared of

1:27:08and my kid was scared of, what about in episode four

1:27:11when Luke's looking through the binoculars

1:27:13and the Tuscan Raider goes, "Rrrr!"

1:27:16- No. - Not at all.

1:27:17- Even though, to me, it's actually just,

1:27:19it's the same thing, right? - Yeah, totally.

1:27:20- No, yeah, it didn't bother him, nope.

1:27:23- That's so weird.

1:27:24See, this is what I'm talking about.

1:27:25- Right, the Wampa, terrifying.

1:27:27The Tuscan Raider who does the exact same thing. (laughs)

1:27:32- You know, but you know, here's, but you get,

1:27:34I remember talking to Matt Howey about this

1:27:35and about how his daughter, he felt like his daughter was,

1:27:38you know, very sensitive to certain kinds of things.

1:27:40She's a really sweet kid, and is like relationship things,

1:27:42and some people are very sensitive to almost everything

1:27:44and other people, it's virtually impossible to tell.

1:27:47My daughter has seen some really grisly shit in movies.

1:27:50Like she saw Deadpool putting his head back on

1:27:52at the end of an X-Men.

1:27:53I didn't show her the whole movie.

1:27:54I was just like, you gotta see the scene

1:27:55where Deadpool puts his head back on.

1:27:57It's pretty great.

1:27:58A terrible movie.

1:27:58But there are some things where I can't guess.

1:28:01Okay, so for example, she's watched a ton of Doctor Who,

1:28:03a little scared by the Daleks.

1:28:05She's watched pretty much almost every Marvel movie

1:28:09except for a few.

1:28:11And all the Star Wars movies numerous times.

1:28:14But then you know what we watch?

1:28:15Did you ever see that show on Cartoon Network

1:28:18from last year called Over the Garden Wall?

1:28:20- No, never heard of it.

1:28:21- It's kind of like, it's an Adventure Timey thing

1:28:23about these two little boys who are brothers

1:28:25having these like kind of fairytale adventures

1:28:27combined with like a Silly Symphonies cartoon feel.

1:28:29It's a really great show,

1:28:31but it is like a fairytale kind of show

1:28:35where there's scary stuff that's not exactly explained.

1:28:39But it's a kids show.

1:28:40It's like it is in the same way as Adventure Time, kind of.

1:28:42It's kind of a kids show.

1:28:44And that is the one stuck with her,

1:28:46this creature on there called the Beast.

1:28:48And I didn't find out for weeks

1:28:49that she thought the Beast was under her bed.

1:28:51She was scared to even say anything.

1:28:53And I was like, "Oh honey, I am so sorry."

1:28:54And mom, of course, gives me the eyes.

1:28:57It's like, "See, see, see?

1:28:58"I knew this was gonna happen."

1:28:59But again, would you guess?

1:29:01I mean, she didn't mind people's faces melting off

1:29:03in Raiders of the Lost Ark,

1:29:05But the idea of like a black bee,

1:29:07this kind of cartoon bear in the forest is terrifying.

1:29:11Who knows?

1:29:12- Yeah, I remember I had a friend growing up who,

1:29:15I missed, I don't know how,

1:29:18but I missed Raiders of the Lost Ark

1:29:20when it was in the theaters.

1:29:22So I didn't see it.

1:29:23But it always bothered me.

1:29:25- How old were you?

1:29:26I was about 13, 14.

1:29:28- I was eight.

1:29:29So, you know, or nine, eight?

1:29:32I think it was 1981, so I was eight.

1:29:34But I desperately wanted to see it,

1:29:37couldn't understand how I missed it.

1:29:39Seemed like something I could've got my dad to take me to.

1:29:41Somehow I missed it, but then, of course,

1:29:43once it was out of theaters, there was no chance to see it.

1:29:45But I knew the basic story,

1:29:47and I just knew that there was something about it

1:29:49at the end, everybody's faces melted.

1:29:51And my one friend growing up

1:29:52was completely freaked out about it.

1:29:55He had gone to see it and came out crying,

1:29:57embarrassed himself, like his mom came out

1:30:00of the movie theater. - Poor kid, oh no.

1:30:02just cry and he wasn't the type of scary because it isn't just that like haha

1:30:06little skin melts off it's like a full-on Ray Harry housing thing we're

1:30:09like their entire head like it's a horrifying really effective effect yeah

1:30:15yeah but he was freaked out and he was the type of kid who just would not you

1:30:19know he wasn't like a sense you wouldn't call him a sensitive kid you really

1:30:23wouldn't you know it's just a normal boy who's going to see what should be and

1:30:27that just was happened to be his thing yeah I get just touched a nerve what

1:30:31What about, have you seen either the trailer or the movie for Paddington?

1:30:36That's probably Little Young for Jonas.

1:30:38Yeah, no.

1:30:39But you've seen the trailer, right?

1:30:40I've seen the trailer.

1:30:41Okay.

1:30:42The trailer, I have heard from friends that the movie is, well, it's one of those movies,

1:30:46one of those rare movies where the movie is actually way better than the trailer looks,

1:30:49which I'm very glad to hear.

1:30:50But you've seen the trailer.

1:30:51There's a scene where he's in the bathroom.

1:30:53I don't, I'm going to, someday my daughter's going to hear this.

1:30:55I'm going to be in so much trouble.

1:30:56There's a scene in the bathroom where he's like interacting with what it is to be a bear

1:31:00using the bathroom and he takes a toothbrush and sticks it in his ear and pulls out this giant wad

1:31:06of totally disgusting looking earwax. It's a dumb shot. It's about three seconds and if I say the

1:31:14word Paddington my kid gets freaked out. She cannot stop thinking about the disgusting earwax. She

1:31:18will hear nothing about going to see that movie because of this one scene with earwax. Remember

1:31:23she's seen Deadpool put his head back on but the earwax thing put her off her beer. Yeah it's

1:31:28inexplicable. Can I toss out one more axis in bad parenting is the balance, weighing the balance.

1:31:37Okay, so let's take an extreme example. Let's take a kid who's like a classic introduction to movies

1:31:46age of like five. Would you show your kid the third X-Men movie if they're five years old?

1:31:55See now me, I'm gonna go, "You know what? I'm not because it's not a very good movie.

1:32:01There is a lot of inside words in it as we say in our house. There is some violence in it,

1:32:06but you know what? It's just not worth it because whatever she sees in it, it's not worth it because

1:32:09the movie is not that good. Would you hesitate to show your kid Toy Story 2? Oh my gosh, no.

1:32:14It's got scary things in it, a little bit, but it's so worth it." Right? So isn't that part of

1:32:20the balance though? It isn't like you're making your kids sit there and watch Castle Freak or

1:32:23or something like you're thinking like oh this is a perfect is this the perfect age

1:32:28to introduce this wonderful story to this kid yeah that's a very good point um it has

1:32:35to be you know the the quality of the movie factors because i mean in my own defense i'm

1:32:39sitting there with her watching the movie like what you know except in the case of mulan

1:32:42too when i'm on my ipad like i am there watching the movie with her we're talking about the

1:32:47movie not that it's like you know freaking harvard or something but just to be clear

1:32:50Like I it's got to be a movie. I like it's got to be good and it's got to be appropriate

1:32:54given what I can know or guess I

1:32:56Totally agree with that. I think you know what else had Jonah seen early

1:33:04I mean he saw the Bond movies back when Dan and I were talking about him

1:33:07I mean, you know, I don't know if you watched all of them with me

1:33:09but he sat through a bunch of them with me and

1:33:11that was weird on two levels because it also in addition to the fact that it's kind of violent for a

1:33:17a kid who was probably six or seven at the time.

1:33:20There's the anachronisms, right?

1:33:25I mean, I think Dan and I spent like half an hour

1:33:27just talking about-- - I got you on the pacing.

1:33:29And this is one that blew me out of the water.

1:33:30I sent you that picture of my kid

1:33:31punching Goldfinger in the face at a casino.

1:33:34Here's the thing, I knew this one was gonna be

1:33:37a long shot. - Look, people are gonna think

1:33:39that that was like a total Merlin euphemism,

1:33:42but you literally sent me a text

1:33:44with a picture of your daughter

1:33:46next to a picture of Goldfinger.

1:33:48- An unlicensed mural of James Bond characters.

1:33:51Punching our Goldfinger in the face.

1:33:54Okay, so, okay, and this one,

1:33:58I barely, barely, barely got this one past the censors.

1:34:00My wife was pretty iffy about this.

1:34:03'Cause if it's one where we're really worried,

1:34:04I will watch the entire movie through again to be sure.

1:34:07I definitely, we have to find time

1:34:09to talk about '80s movies

1:34:10and how, what completely weird animals '80s movies are.

1:34:13'Cause you never know when some boobies

1:34:15are gonna show up in an '80s movie.

1:34:16It's crazy.

1:34:17But Goldfinger, I was like,

1:34:18"Oh, it really is the best James Bond movie."

1:34:22And it's got this kind of a silly plot,

1:34:25but it's not that hard to follow.

1:34:26But you know what my main thing was?

1:34:28I was like, "She is going to watch,

1:34:32"she'll watch up to when he takes off the scuba thing

1:34:34"and have his tux on."

1:34:35That's pretty funny.

1:34:36But I was like, "The pacing of this movie

1:34:38"by her standards is so glacial,

1:34:40"there's no way she's gonna watch more than 20 minutes."

1:34:42And then it became the movie that she demanded to watch.

1:34:45It was completely perplexing.

1:34:46She's watching a thing where people are sitting

1:34:47and drinking mint juleps in Kentucky

1:34:49and talking about contaminating gold.

1:34:51I was blown away.

1:34:52So again, I had no idea that ended up being one

1:34:55that she really likes.

1:34:55And also when the laser almost cuts him in the penis,

1:34:57she turns and goes, "It's gonna cut him in the penis."

1:34:59(laughing)

1:35:01- We did it in 2011.

1:35:03So Jonas was seven when I let him watch.

1:35:05- Same here with her.

1:35:06- Yeah, seven.

1:35:07- Right.

1:35:08(laughing)

1:35:09- Seven year.

1:35:10- I don't think I watched it.

1:35:10- I watched it when I was seven.

1:35:11It was on TV once a year.

1:35:13I think the same way I don't know I mean you know one thing too with the violence

1:35:19I know and I know a lot of the you know there's what are the big three there's

1:35:23violence language and sex right I mean that's it's the big three like concerns

1:35:30you got smoking got sass mouth but I would say violent scariness scariness is

1:35:35I would say scariness is probably the top issue because I really do think that

1:35:39that a truly scary movie can upset a kid for days.

1:35:44I do realize, I absolutely realize that there are some kids,

1:35:49a lot of times boys, who if they see a movie

1:35:52where there's a lot of shooting action,

1:35:55even in a sort of cartoony way like Star Wars,

1:35:58that it gets the kid all amped up

1:36:00and then the kid starts jumping around the house

1:36:02smashing things, right?

1:36:03And it's like--

1:36:04- Or like I've shown her bits,

1:36:06I've shown her YouTube videos of Bruce Lee,

1:36:08like a best of Bruce Lee or something like that.

1:36:10And she just wants to kick everything after that.

1:36:13- Well, or worse, that kids wanna kick other kids

1:36:16or something like that. - Yeah, right, right.

1:36:17- Well, Jonas has never ever been like that.

1:36:18Jonas is a very gentle kid,

1:36:20and anything that he sees in a movie

1:36:22does not alter his behavior in the real world.

1:36:26So I mean, I think it allowed us to be a little permissive

1:36:29in that way.

1:36:30But I think most kids are actually pretty good that way.

1:36:32I think it's kind of rare.

1:36:34So the violence we've always, I don't know,

1:36:37a little liberal on? It depends on the violence. It depends on, I mean, you know, the thing is there

1:36:42are phrases that I would hear people use before I had a child and I would just, I would want to

1:36:47strangle the person. The phrase, a phrase I used to sneer at "imitative behavior," you know, that's

1:36:53sometimes in these reviews you'll see, well, it contains, you know, sass mouth and "imitative

1:36:57behavior," meaning, you know, the three stooges, right? That's a good example. Like, if you watch

1:37:01enough Three Stooges, you're probably gonna want to hit somebody on the head, you know, Maggie

1:37:04Simpson with the mallet or whatever but I think I think there's also I have

1:37:09fun this is really where I don't know I'm out on a limb but I think there are

1:37:13differences there's different kinds of violence I think stormtroopers getting

1:37:17bloodlessly shot with comic book violence is really different from

1:37:20Hellraiser and war or like the like saw I think there is a really big difference

1:37:26in degree and the personal miss of it so like there are some things and again we

1:37:30You gotta talk about 70s and 80s movies.

1:37:32There is so much completely random weird nudity and sex

1:37:36in 70s and 80s movies, especially 80s movies,

1:37:38but there's also some extremely personal violence

1:37:41in those kinds of movies.

1:37:43So the idea of holding somebody

1:37:44with a knife to their throat and cutting them,

1:37:47I think of that as a different kind of animal

1:37:48than a storm trooper getting shot personally.

1:37:51- Yeah, I do too, or even with just sticking to guns with,

1:37:54like when Bond, especially in the older ones,

1:37:57when Bond shoots somebody,

1:37:58It's practically like shooting a stormtrooper.

1:38:00I mean, it's like, you know, like the squib,

1:38:03the squib in the chest was just like a puff of smoke

1:38:05and the guy just, you know, falls into, you know,

1:38:10sharks with lasers pit.

1:38:11Whereas I think the more visceral violence

1:38:18and the more recent ones, like the Craig ones, you know,

1:38:21is a little different.

1:38:22- Oh my gosh.

1:38:24Oh no, no, no.

1:38:25I mean, this-- - Well, a lot different.

1:38:26- Yeah, yeah.

1:38:27I mean, I'm sorry, I didn't mean for some beef jerky.

1:38:29I thought I could pull it off.

1:38:31(laughing)

1:38:33How's it going?

1:38:35- What do you think about the actual ratings?

1:38:38I still think it was a mistake

1:38:40to introduce the rating PG-13.

1:38:42- I find it, well, it certainly was easier at one time

1:38:48to understand, everybody knew what R-rated meant.

1:38:51R-rated meant you could expect some serious nudity

1:38:55and simulated sex.

1:38:57You could expect some shits and fucks,

1:38:59and you could expect smoking and drugs

1:39:02and French connection.

1:39:03That's an R-rated movie.

1:39:04That was easy to understand.

1:39:06Now, when, per that article I one-tenth read today,

1:39:091984 comes along, you've got, was it "Temple of Doom?"

1:39:12No. - Yep.

1:39:13"Temple of Doom" prompted-- - And "Gremlins"

1:39:15were two movies that people were just like,

1:39:17"This is just..."

1:39:18Now, "Gremlins," I think I could see "Gremlins"

1:39:19freaking my kid out, personally.

1:39:22And so it's kind of a weird movie.

1:39:24- Yeah, it is a weird movie.

1:39:25We just rewatched it, not recently,

1:39:27but maybe like last Christmas,

1:39:28'cause it's sort of a Christmas movie.

1:39:30- Yeah, it is. - So like about a year ago.

1:39:32- But even something like a movie we all love,

1:39:34it's, take a movie like "Groundhog Day."

1:39:37If "Groundhog Day" had just the smallest bit of editing,

1:39:42it would be maybe a canonical family movie.

1:39:45It's so close to being a, "Ghostbusters."

1:39:48You know how much nookie there is in "Ghostbusters"?

1:39:51You got a fake blowjob.

1:39:52You got, remember that?

1:39:55Remember that? Where Dan Aykroyd gets the ghost blowjob?

1:39:57I do.

1:39:58And it's like, what's this doing in this movie?

1:40:00This is a movie for kids.

1:40:04Or just, you know, there's all these movies. This is still true today.

1:40:07I know with the Marvel movies, they're usually pretty good with the salty language until like the last act.

1:40:12And that's when all the shits and fucks come out.

1:40:15It's always like, what is the rule? Isn't there kind of like a standard for how many you're allowed in a PG-13 movie?

1:40:20Yeah, I think there's some kind of...

1:40:22And I think they'd like to really load him up in the back too for when the closing action

1:40:25but I'm just saying like that's the part that's perplexing is there like are you gonna tell

1:40:29me Ghostbusters is not right for kids oh here we go Back to the Future like there's some

1:40:33stuff in Back Back to the Future is a great a great family movie that still has some stuff

1:40:37in it that's a little edgy I mean you know he's in his underwear I guess that's not a

1:40:42big deal but you know it's straight Oh Home Alone I mean would you Home Alone that's a

1:40:47kids movie right yeah we've watched him yeah he gets an iron in the face

1:40:50that's that's worse than Wolverine I don't know I don't know the violence in

1:41:00Home Alone is kind of weird because it's on the one hand it's like they're kind

1:41:03of going for that Three Stooges thing and then the other hand there's like

1:41:06actual acid like walking up the steps in bare feet and you see the nail sticking

1:41:13out of the step and you're like this is the most horrific thing that I've ever

1:41:16seen he's because every kid's terrified your parents get you terrified about

1:41:19I get tetanus from a nail right and he steps on in like a three inch exposed like nail

1:41:25right it it is

1:41:27it's an interesting movie because it

1:41:30It does though bit like his

1:41:33What's his name Kevin young Kevin's mastery of these two buffoon criminals is?

1:41:39established cinematically such that you kind of get the sense that the kids gonna come out on top that he's you know,

1:41:47And that therefore his mastery of these two criminals, the way that he prolongs their stuff,

1:41:52it really does kind of in a sense, it's a little bit more like torture than self-defense.

1:41:56[Crosstalk]

1:41:56Jared: It is, it's like Grand Guignol. It's like he's deliberately making this as awful as he can.

1:42:01Pete: Yeah, it's less self-defense and more torture. He's kind of enjoying it.

1:42:05[Laughter]

1:42:06Jared; Oh man.

1:42:08Pete; Actually, I think there's a couple of scenes where like one of his, you know,

1:42:11traps works and he just flat out like high fives himself.

1:42:14Yes, that's why I gotta pick that up, which does the like her

1:42:18fist out and pumps it in goes yes. Fuller go easy on the

1:42:23Pepsi. I love that movie, but I don't know. I'm just saying

1:42:28okay now how about this? Alright PG-13 so they they I

1:42:31think it was a mistake cuz I think that the old way was G.

1:42:35That's a kid's movie. That's for everybody. PG is it's in

1:42:42and R is for adults and doesn't matter why it doesn't matter if it's my PGP

1:42:47says it all PG PG says like your mileage may vary like yeah you know it basically

1:42:51it almost kind of says like you need to like watch this before your kids do

1:42:57practically or like or like be advised right yeah be advised think about it you

1:43:02know if your kid is younger and if your kid is over 10 it's probably probably

1:43:06good yeah you know yeah I don't know but it's again that could to me the hard

1:43:10part is this sensitive, I sent you a link to this website that I look at a lot and I'm

1:43:16somewhat ambivalent about it and yet I find it extremely useful. I cannot believe I'm

1:43:19saying this. Have you seen, did you just look at that link, Kids in Mind? It's a very interesting

1:43:23idea because they go out and they review these movies, but it's very funny. So the none of

1:43:28it is they come up with these three numbers, not numerals because there's a 10. But how

1:43:36How much sex and nudity is there from zero to 10?

1:43:40How much violence and gore from zero to 10?

1:43:42How much profanity from zero to 10?

1:43:44Which I think it's a great, at least a fast glance.

1:43:48I mean, sometimes I use this to go like,

1:43:49okay, we're thinking about these two different movies,

1:43:51like which one of these looks better on the face of it?

1:43:54And sometimes, you know what I mean?

1:43:54It's a quick sniff test.

1:43:56But then did you go in and look at the actual page

1:44:00at like how it's like porn,

1:44:02where they describe all the stuff that's actually in it?

1:44:05No I didn't I'm looking at it now.

1:44:07Sponge and the way they describe it it's hilarious I want to meet the person who writes this.

1:44:12Spongebob movie which I absolutely do not want to see.

1:44:15Sex and nudity you get it too.

1:44:16We see many human men on the beach with bare chests.

1:44:19Many women wear skimpy bikinis and reveal cleavage.

1:44:22A sponge accidentally pulls the shorts partially down from a starfish's waist and we see the

1:44:25upper buttocks and buttock cleavage.

1:44:28I've got one here from Mordecai.

1:44:30Husband and his wife attempt to kiss several times in different scenes, but his moustache makes her gag

1:44:36And he gags in reflex. Oh my god

1:44:40Please see the violence and gore category for more details on the gagging

1:44:44It's but it doesn't it read like something like a Japanese man would buy for porn

1:44:48American sniper profanity gets a 10 about a hundred and fifteen f-words and its derivatives ten sexual references 32

1:44:56Gotta logical terms, 20 anatomical terms,

1:44:5812 mild obscenities, name calling,

1:45:00including sunshine, quitter, nuts, old man,

1:45:02hotbox, arrogant, self-centered, sitting ducks, legend.

1:45:05- See, why count all--

1:45:07- Somebody wrote all of those down, Jon.

1:45:09- Why count all 115 fucks?

1:45:12Because clearly, I mean, how long is the movie?

1:45:15Even if it's three hours.

1:45:16- Right, right, right.

1:45:17- You're on the border--

1:45:18- Two hours and 12 minutes.

1:45:20- So it's roughly one a minute.

1:45:23- You gotta fuck a minute.

1:45:25Right, unless there's like a burst at the end. It's, you know, I think you only have to go about

1:45:32two or three movies or minutes into this movie and you can just check off 10 on a profanity.

1:45:36Some of these. Oh my god.

1:45:38All right, it's like this. Like, if you're like the inspector for a hotel,

1:45:42like you don't have to count the bugs.

1:45:45Oh, like once you see five rats in the lobby.

1:45:47Yeah.

1:45:48New dealer.

1:45:49You just check that off. You just check it off. You don't have to count them.

1:45:52Right.

1:45:52You don't have to count them.

1:45:541998 film a lot of people a lot of families have enjoyed called the big Lebowski profanity. They give it a 10 about 240 f-words

1:46:01Many scatological references many anatomical references many mild obscenities here to fix Dinah Kabul

1:46:10This is great. I I I love this but I know that I'm gonna lose a lot of time on this site

1:46:17Like oh, I know but the things I can't show it to my wife

1:46:20Oh, I mean, I'm gonna say can't she's a grown-ass woman

1:46:22But you know it makes it when you read when you read it in this clinical way

1:46:26It makes it sound so much worse when they say a starfish is

1:46:30Swimsuit is pulled down reveals buttocks guys. That's Patrick. It's Patrick's but he's a goddamn cartoon character. It's okay if we see his butt

1:46:38All right. I looked up fantastic. Mr. Fox which is actually I was just talking to do I just watched it. I love it

1:46:44I

1:46:46Kottke called it. Oh, I when I linked to a picture from it and he said it's underrated

1:46:51I think it's my favorite Wes Anderson

1:46:52It's it's it's one of my all-time favorite movies let alone one of our families like there's two movies

1:46:58Yeah, if we can't decide on anything and it comes to blows it's either the Incredibles or mr. Fox. That's it. Yeah, that's

1:47:03Those are yeah, those are two good ones to leave at the top of the queue. All right, so

1:47:12For sex and nudity. It's only ranked a one out of ten which meshes with my memory

1:47:17Here's what we've got. We've got a person in a swimsuit

1:47:21husband and a wife kissing

1:47:23Fox kissing hug a teen boy and a teen girl Fox flirt in a couple of scenes

1:47:29I do remember that you're supposed to be my lab partner. I know it number. No, you're not you're disloyal

1:47:34Number two a rat refers to a fox's wife as the quote town tart

1:47:41(laughing)

1:47:43- Right, yeah, I never--

1:47:46- A fox wife tells her fox husband that she is pregnant.

1:47:50So that counts for a one on the sex nudity scale

1:47:53on pregnant? - While they're in a cage.

1:47:56Oh man, yeah, but again, you know what this is though?

1:47:59Okay, so I just gotta say,

1:48:00this is actually really helpful though,

1:48:02'cause like you say, this is the rats in the lobby title.

1:48:04It's like you can see, like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:48:07no, no, no, no, no, no, Big Lebowski's not gonna be great

1:48:09to watch with the kids, am I wrong?

1:48:10No, we're gonna skip this one.

1:48:12But it is also good that you can go through

1:48:14and look for like the stuff is like a trigger for your kids.

1:48:17- 27 exclamation, this is for profanity,

1:48:2027 exclamations.

1:48:21- What the cuss?

1:48:22- Cuss word.

1:48:23- Cussing with me?

1:48:24- What the cuss?

1:48:25(laughing)

1:48:26- They count that as a cuss word?

1:48:28- Yeah.

1:48:28- Cuss is a cuss word?

1:48:30- Cluster cuss.

1:48:31(laughing)

1:48:36They have a scatological terms glossary.

1:48:40You got F word derivatives,

1:48:43which all have little asterisks in them.

1:48:44Scatological terms, religious profanities, mild obscenities.

1:48:48Friggin' would be counted as a mild obscenity.

1:48:51- All right. - Derogatory terms.

1:48:53Wow.

1:48:54But you know, I still, I gotta say,

1:48:56no, no, let me ask you if you remember this.

1:48:57Do you remember?

1:48:59I'm gonna say circa mid to late 90s.

1:49:02Do you remember a service

1:49:04that was actually kind of like what became Netflix,

1:49:07where you could get edited movies.

1:49:10I think it might have been

1:49:11a somewhat overtly Christian place,

1:49:14but you could get like a PG movie

1:49:16that had all of the stuff a certain kind of religious person

1:49:19would find offensive cut out of it.

1:49:20Do you remember that at all?

1:49:21- I do remember hearing about it.

1:49:22- I remember hearing about it.

1:49:24I don't know where it went or what it did,

1:49:25but isn't that, especially now in the digital age,

1:49:27that's a very interesting idea.

1:49:29- Yeah, 'cause it would be,

1:49:30you could do it without losing fidelity.

1:49:32- I mean, you need just some basic metadata

1:49:34on like, well, you know, you could go in, it'd be so great.

1:49:37'Cause if you could go in and say,

1:49:39you know what, my family is observant

1:49:40and we don't want any god-dams.

1:49:42Could you, just with audio, blip out the god-dams,

1:49:46but leave in the horrific violence or whatever.

1:49:48Let's say you wanna show your kids Passion of the Christ.

1:49:50Let's go see what Passion of the Christ looks like.

1:49:53But you know what I mean?

1:49:53'Cause I gotta say, I might find that,

1:49:56it kinda goes against some of my values

1:50:00about censorship or something,

1:50:01but that's what I'm asking for, you know?

1:50:03There are some movies I am much more likely

1:50:05to have my daughter watch in a hotel room

1:50:08because I know they've been edited down.

1:50:10They've taken out the really cool.

1:50:11We watched Highlander in a hotel room

1:50:13and she thought it was a riot.

1:50:14I would never show that to her at home, unedited.

1:50:17(laughing)

1:50:18- I never thought about that, about looking for a hotel edit.

1:50:22(laughing)

1:50:22- I love a hotel edit.

1:50:24- The director's cut and then there's Hilton's cut.

1:50:27- Wow, this is an unusual statistical spread

1:50:31on Passion of the Christ.

1:50:32Sex and nudity, it gets a one.

1:50:34Profanity, it gets a one.

1:50:36Violence and gore, full 10.

1:50:39Oh my goo.

1:50:40(laughing)

1:50:43Let her dance, dance, let her dance, dance.

1:50:48- I've been, now I'm looking for movies

1:50:50that I have let Jonah see

1:50:51that they don't even bother to list

1:50:53because I don't think any-- - It would be so inappropriate.

1:50:55- Right, The Shining is not listed.

1:50:57- Oh, come on.

1:50:59Are you kidding me?

1:51:00- That I've let him see it?

1:51:01- Yeah.

1:51:02Yeah.

1:51:03- Wow.

1:51:04- I think that's the only Kubrick movie he's seen.

1:51:05- You're Batman.

1:51:07Wow.

1:51:08She's never seen any Kubrick.

1:51:11- That was recent though.

1:51:12That was within the last year.

1:51:13- Okay, yeah, well.

1:51:14- I think it was like last year.

1:51:15- You're gonna say Clockwork Orange

1:51:15till he's like 12 probably, right?

1:51:17- Yeah, Clockwork Orange is gonna have to wait.

1:51:19- Mm-hmm.

1:51:20- 'Cause, you know.

1:51:21- But there are some things.

1:51:22Oh, you know what, I'm not gonna tell you.

1:51:24I'll tell you when we're offline.

1:51:26But there's a movie that she has been dying to see

1:51:29for like a year.

1:51:30And we've read some of the book.

1:51:32We've told, I've told her the entire story.

1:51:34She really wants to see "Hunger Games."

1:51:37And I'm like, it's, she's seven.

1:51:40Like that's, it just, and again,

1:51:41why too much personal violence?

1:51:44Like that, the violence in "Hunger Games,"

1:51:46I'm gonna tell you, I don't care.

1:51:47I'm a 48 year old man.

1:51:49I'm gonna say it, I love "The Hunger Games."

1:51:50I thought it was a great movie.

1:51:51I thought it was a lot of fun.

1:51:52I thought it was very well done.

1:51:53And I just, I really liked it.

1:51:55And I cannot wait.

1:51:58It's one of those movies like,

1:51:59that I'm constantly saying to her,

1:51:59"Oh honey, I cannot wait

1:52:01until you're old enough to watch this with me.

1:52:03Like that one, Blade Runner.

1:52:05What about Blade Runner?

1:52:07Has he seen Blade Runner?

1:52:09- No.

1:52:09- Yeah, that's pretty-- - Let me think about that.

1:52:12- Yeah.

1:52:13- Huh, there's the Daryl Hannah character.

1:52:16- You got the eye, you got the replicants

1:52:18doing some pretty bad.

1:52:20Oh, you got Leon, you got Leon.

1:52:22There's some pretty bad stuff in that.

1:52:25- I would probably let him watch it now though.

1:52:26He's 11, I would probably let him watch it.

1:52:28- Yeah.

1:52:29- I'm worried how much did they play up

1:52:30that Daryl Hannah is a prostitute.

1:52:32(laughing)

1:52:33- That worries you.

1:52:35- A little.

1:52:36- Okay.

1:52:36You afraid it's gonna be imitative behavior?

1:52:38- Well, I don't know.

1:52:39I would probably-- - He's gonna wanna go out

1:52:40and get a skin job, if you know what I mean?

1:52:41- Yeah, but I would say only within like the last year or so

1:52:44I would say Blade Runner. - Oh, sure, sure, sure.

1:52:45- Probably.

1:52:46Well, was Blade Runner rated?

1:52:47It must have been rated R, right?

1:52:49- I think it's gotta be rated R, yeah.

1:52:50- Yeah.

1:52:51- Some of them are amazing though, I'm telling you.

1:52:52There's something about '80s movies

1:52:54that seems completely random.

1:52:56Movies that in my head I think of as being,

1:52:59like maybe 'cause I saw them when I was a young teenager.

1:53:02Like I'm so blown away,

1:53:03there's just be boobs out of nowhere in the movie.

1:53:05You're like, "Whoa, where did that come from?"

1:53:07- We just watched over Christmas,

1:53:09we watched "Weekend at Bernie's" and...

1:53:12(laughing)

1:53:13- How'd that go over?

1:53:15- He loved it, he absolutely loved it.

1:53:18But there were a couple of surprising '80s sort of boobies.

1:53:22- Yeah. - Yeah.

1:53:23I don't know how else to describe it.

1:53:25- Well, and the thing was that it was so egregious.

1:53:27I think a lot of the movies I'm thinking of,

1:53:29It was by the time you had theatrical,

1:53:33VHS or beta cable,

1:53:37and certainly get it ready for distribution on TV.

1:53:40And if you think about something like Caddyshack,

1:53:42or you think about, Caddyshack obviously way too much.

1:53:44But, can't wait till I can watch that with her.

1:53:47But, oh my God, I love it so much.

1:53:49- We thought about it.

1:53:50We thought about it and then we were like running it

1:53:51through our heads and there's so much of it that's good.

1:53:54But then, you know, like--

1:53:55- He'll appreciate it more later.

1:53:56I showed her some scenes.

1:53:57showed her Carl finding the candy bar in the pool I I don't know what we're gonna

1:54:01have the talk about what abortion is but it's not gonna be so that waitress has a

1:54:07baby but wasn't gonna say about oh so so but what's funny though cuz like I think

1:54:14about like how like egregious and unnecessary so many of the boobies are

1:54:18where like you could tell they made it to be easy to cut out where it'll just

1:54:22be like hey it's a shot of a girl taking her shirt off me like what was that but

1:54:25like you had to have that in every 80s movie early 80s movie think about like

1:54:29stripes you know I'm these movies that are like kind of mostly okay in some

1:54:33ways but then are like super inappropriate in other ways but yeah

1:54:37there's got to be this had to be like a scene where there were 23 year old like

1:54:42having a petrified at a party I heard yeah with feathered hair and they're

1:54:45either getting a hose down or having a pillow fight well an awful lot of

1:54:54actresses got hosed down or suds up in in completely mainstream Hollywood

1:55:00movies in the 1980s let's have a car wash to save the orphanage but there's

1:55:06no orphanage in the plot sponges are soft right so what are we gonna tell

1:55:10people how do we help people with this John there are new parents out there

1:55:13people are having babies like crazy people how do we help people with this I

1:55:19don't know I feel like you I feel like you got to have faith in your kid I feel

1:55:23like because I don't know I just remember when I was a kid when I was not allowed to watch

1:55:28certain movies it was a constant source of frustration for me.

1:55:31And you felt didn't you feel like a pariah?

1:55:33I did and we had a neighborhood movie theater and it was so great I think I had to have talked about

1:55:41this on the show at some point but it's probably years ago probably with like Dan but and it was

1:55:45I didn't even have to cross the street it was cata corner like a like up and around the block from my

1:55:50my parents' house.

1:55:51So I didn't even have to cross the street.

1:55:53And it was called The Majestic.

1:55:55And it was an old time vaudeville theater

1:55:58that at some point in the 40s or 50s

1:56:00was turned into a movie theater.

1:56:02And it was connected to the fire company.

1:56:06So half the building was fire trucks,

1:56:07the other half was a movie theater.

1:56:09And it was just right out of central casting

1:56:12of old time matinee movie theater.

1:56:15Velvet seats.

1:56:18- Wow.

1:56:19a balcony, a big balcony, like you would go around the side. And it was run by a family.

1:56:26The guy who owned it was Mr. Dieter. Dieter or Dietrich? Dieter, I think. And he was probably

1:56:32around 50. And his dad was the projectionist and the ticket taker at the front door. His

1:56:38dad, he must have been 75. But to our eyes as like eight, nine year olds, he was ancient.

1:56:44was older than God. He was older than the Earth. And then the kids, his ne'er-do-well

1:56:53teenage son would sometimes be working, and it was such a great place. Oh my God.

1:56:57Oh, could you sometimes get away with it?

1:57:00Well, what you could sometimes get away with is if the kid was behind... They had great popcorn,

1:57:04like the best popcorn in the universe. And they had... Because it was like a little movie theater,

1:57:11They never got movies when they were new they got movies right after they were new so like

1:57:15Empire Strikes Back would come out and it would play for three months at the multiplex

1:57:20All right, and then the majestic would get it for like, you know, however many weeks they wanted

1:57:25And they would sometimes have like two movies at the same time even though it was just you know

1:57:31It wasn't a multiplex one screen

1:57:32But like in the afternoon they might show like a kids movie like Peter Pan and then at nighttime

1:57:37There was a you know, John Travolta movie or something, right? I don't know

1:57:40And they would also show rock movies like concert films from like the

1:57:46movies kind of thing. Yeah like though I like just concert movies of like the

1:57:50Stones and Led Zeppelin and stuff like that my parents always get mad because

1:57:53when they showed those like our backyard would get trashed. Kids

1:57:57coming out of movie theater were like cut through like and and you know leave

1:58:01beer cans and stuff but it was such a great place but I remember we used to go

1:58:05as a kid, any Saturday, where it was if it was winter, or if it

1:58:10was rainy, or whatever, we would just go to the majestic, we

1:58:13would just go there because it was like $1 $1 matinee, your

1:58:15parent, your mom wouldn't mind giving you the money, you'd be

1:58:18out of their hair. But every once in a while, I remember one

1:58:20time specifically, I wasn't allowed to all my friends were

1:58:22going. And they didn't give it like one thing about Mr. Dieters,

1:58:25he didn't give two shits. How old you are, if you had your

1:58:27dollar, you could go see. So that the Saturday matinee was

1:58:31Kujo. This is my this whole story is my saying I was not

1:58:34allowed my mom checked and I knew she wouldn't let me see it so I hope I just

1:58:38said can I go to the Majestic and she said what's playing I said I don't know

1:58:41she goes well let me look and she looks you know in the newspaper of course and

1:58:46there it is Kujo rated R and now she could tell you if it well I don't know I

1:58:51can't remember if I got because you would just sometimes go and see what's

1:58:53there yeah and we would often go if they had the same movie two weeks in a row

1:58:57we'd go see it twice in a row and if we if we sat in the balcony last time we'll

1:59:01Sit up in the front row this time and you know half the time on the balcony

1:59:04We would just sit up there and throw popcorn on teenagers who were making out down below, you know in the back

1:59:09They're like little kids up in the front row little kids on the balcony and then like teenagers making out and like the back row

1:59:16We would like try to throw popcorn on them. Oh

1:59:18The great thing they had video games in the lobby, you know coin up

1:59:23It's like a little mini arcade in the lobby and you could play them

1:59:27And so I said that the old man's dad was the projectionist

1:59:30where the projection booth was up in the balcony

1:59:32and it took him, I swear, no joke,

1:59:34like five minutes to walk up the steps.

1:59:37Like he was seriously old.

1:59:39And he was so old that he would take the steps

1:59:41like left foot and then the right foot

1:59:43would be in the same step.

1:59:44- Oh no. - Left foot, right foot.

1:59:46So it was like a last call for video games.

1:59:48Like when his dad started going up the steps,

1:59:51you knew you had time for,

1:59:52you could still get one more game in.

1:59:54Without missing it.

1:59:56What a place but I couldn't get into I couldn't get in to see Kujo and I remember Blue Lagoon

2:00:01I remember missing out on the blue blue

2:00:03I remember seeing that on cable Oh brother

2:00:06But all my friends my friends parents just did my they just didn't check. I think I don't think anybody's I

2:00:12Was probably around eight or nine at the time

2:00:14I don't think anybody in their right mind would let their eight or nine year old see Kujo

2:00:17But here's the thing too, I remember thinking I would be fine

2:00:22I was not I've never once was upset by a movie in my entire life as a kid. I was you know, I think

2:00:28Pretty naturally mature I could have I and my friend so cujo and they were fine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah

2:00:35Including my friend Dave who is the kid who got freaked out by Raiders of the Lost Ark

2:00:40He went to see cujo thought it was a cool movie. Yeah, if you know what you're in for, you know, yeah

2:00:47I never tell my Blade Runner story. No, I hung out with older kids a lot of the time and I went back

2:00:53From Florida to visit my friends in Ohio

2:00:55Whatever that summer was some Blade Runner was out and they were all older than me and they could pass and I looked like I

2:01:01Was four. Oh, I'm just never forget we walk up there and they buy their tickets and my hand of God

2:01:07I walked up to the counter. I think I was holding an unlit cigarette

2:01:10Maybe they'd given me I woke up to the counter and I go one adult for Blade Runner

2:01:15How old are you I was 13 and like really one adult

2:01:20Superman -

2:01:26Did you ever do that as a teenager like like in your in your like teenage years

2:01:32Did you ever do the thing where you'd buy a ticket for one that you know?

2:01:36They'd sell you and then try to sneak in - I never that never occurred to me. It's such that's such a smart trick

2:01:42I was scared to do anything. I was always scared to buy beer

2:01:44beer I was scared to go to R-rated movies I was just I was so I was such a

2:01:48good kid I you know like a good kid like I did not want to disappoint anybody in

2:01:53authority I was scared I was scared no I was a scammer like the rise of the

2:01:59multiplex and then like once I was old enough those things that the whole point

2:02:03is those things make money because they're so understaffed they got like

2:02:06one kid that walks around and sweeps up popcorn once they know what he's paying

2:02:08the attention to who's going in those theaters you go and sit somewhere near

2:02:11an adult, you're good to go. Yeah, like, I think a bunch of

2:02:15Schwarzenegger's 80s movies were r rated. Oh, yeah. You know, it

2:02:20was all those. It's just always shooting people up and blowing

2:02:23things up. But we've got, you know, we would just go and buy

2:02:25tickets for, I don't know, whatever we thought we could get

2:02:27into. And you can always sneak in there was just always one guy,

2:02:30like, who would make sure you had a ticket. There is no money

2:02:33in pursuing that. No, I mean, there's money in running and

2:02:36selling, you know, goobers and popcorn. There's no money in

2:02:40monitoring those theaters I remember one time my friend Ethan and I went to a

2:02:44multiplex to I forget was there girls involved there might have it might it

2:02:51wasn't a date because I wasn't you know wasn't lucky enough to have dates but it

2:02:55might have been like us it was like a teenage situation over there were girls

2:02:58involved and so I could kind of pretend like maybe it would be a day and we

2:03:03wanted to see an r-rated movie but we were it was we weren't like 13 anymore

2:03:07We were maybe more like 15 or 16 and so we didn't think it'd be a problem

2:03:11And we asked for the R-rated movie and she said no, you know

2:03:16Do you have ID and we're like no and she was and she's like a 17 and we're like, of course

2:03:20And she's like no you're not and then we're like well give us two tickets for you know

2:03:25Whatever it was PG and she's like no. Oh no shit and with my friend Ethan's brother had

2:03:31Had driven us and dropped us off nice enough. He was like two or three years older

2:03:36So he was like 17 or 18 and he hadn't gone yet. He was still was there

2:03:40You know, we ran and got him and he he bought us our ticket. Oh, you're kidding

2:03:44Yeah, he bought us to it, but it was like but I still don't know how that got around

2:03:47I have no I have no respect for people who buy beer for underage kids

2:03:51But people who buy I said the guy who drinks a lot but but but somebody buying movie tickets for kids. That's pretty cool

2:03:57Yeah, but I don't know why she fell for that. She wouldn't fall for our will just buy the PG but she somehow fell for

2:04:05Apparently once there's a 17 year old involved you can get anybody in there show the ID they they can't say anything. That's the law, right?

2:04:12One adult I think we told her do that he was our parent

2:04:19Two years old walking in my dad holding a finger under your nose

2:04:23My dad says it's okay

2:04:27Blade Runner, I'll tell you what Blade Runner is a damn borderline movie for 10 10 years 11 year

2:04:33You know, there's again that that Hunger Games Die Hard

2:04:38There's so many movies where I'm like you so can't see this yet, but I really I cannot wait so my kid can see Die Hard

2:04:43Yeah, I remember

2:04:45My was not allowed to read

2:04:48The Catcher in the Rye and I don't even know why I wanted to at some point

2:04:53I'd you know, I had become a you know, a fairly

2:04:56avid reader and

2:04:59My mom, you know, definitely my mom encouraged it and you know would would I could buy books?

2:05:05We get books at library and at some point

2:05:07I wanted to read to catch her in the ride because I'd heard it was a cool book or whatever and

2:05:10She thought about I could tell she was really thoughtful and she was like, you know, it's a great book

2:05:14I can't wait for you to read it, but you're not you're not old enough yet and

2:05:17And I would ask like every six months. Can I read catch her?

2:05:21I can't read catch and right and eventually she let me and I forget I don't know how old I was but you know

2:05:25maybe like 12 or 13 and I read it and

2:05:29I was expecting it because it had been so set up by her not allowing me to be like Lolita or something

2:05:34Yeah, I thought it was gonna be like and this is gonna be some great stuff and I just remember being bored to tears

2:05:39I was like what the hell it's just a kid walking around. I appreciated that both so much more when I got older

2:05:44Oh, yeah, you know what and I wish that's what my mom had said to me

2:05:47I wish she hadn't made she was thinking too much about some of the content and some of the ideas and I really really

2:05:53fundamentally it was more like

2:05:55You're you you shouldn't bother reading it now. You won't appreciate it, right? Okay. I was just the trade-off

2:06:01That's kind of the trade-off we were talking about. It's a truly great book, but you're not ready for it yet

2:06:05Well, I'll give you and I'll tell you where I'm going with this is

2:06:08Movie wise it's actually rated G content wise. It's not that bad

2:06:13but I won't let Jonas watch 2001 right because I

2:06:18Strongly suspect he'll be bored to tears and I don't want him to get it

2:06:21his head that this movie is born. Or like or I mean watching the uh the ape stuff at the beginning

2:06:27going like oh that is so fake. I wonder if he would think it's fake some of it some of the back

2:06:32the the the staging looks fake I think the apes themselves are still I think they stand up.

2:06:36They look better than you'd expect that's that's for sure but no I'm with you that would be

2:06:39something that's kind of like me with James Bond and her like I was amazed that she could

2:06:43tolerate the pacing to watch Goldfinger like three times now it's it's crazy.

2:06:48There really is a scene in goldfinger where they just sit on a porch and drink mentula

2:06:52Just it goes on and on and then they have some discussions about whether they should go in or let james bond

2:06:57Keep doing his thing. James bond's in the cell. He's out of the cell

2:07:00He's in that he's in the he's in the world's craziest. He's hiding under the world's craziest rec room. My god

2:07:05What's that guy's name? Ken kurtis. What's the guy's name? Ken adams. Oh my god that that room

2:07:11I love that room so much

2:07:14And every time we watch it, when Goldfinger leaves to go make his deal with the guy who wants his money back,

2:07:19I always do the same stupid joke. I go, "Hey, we wanted to play billiards!"

2:07:23She laughs a little.

2:07:25Hey, I should go. I gotta try to get to this dry cleaner by six.

2:07:28What are we gonna do to help people here? I mean, your mileage may vary. What do we say?

2:07:32What do we say? I don't care about the people who think we're nuts, but like,

2:07:35what would you say as a good piece of advice? I would say one is, if it's a movie you consider

2:07:40a classic, you think your kid is almost ready for, watch it yourself.

2:07:42Yeah.

2:07:43with them not there yeah and also I would not be afraid to fast over yeah

2:07:49yeah pass pass forward fast over yeah yeah you got to watch it with them yeah

2:07:55yeah that's what I think still gonna hold off on Die Hard though I think we

2:07:59just got into Die Hard this year we have this was the first year so that

2:08:03beautiful Christmas movie 10 10 years that's just about a perfect movie yeah I

2:08:08don't know I don't know why I had it filed away as something he could watch

2:08:11when he was 10 yeah yeah well thanks thanks for having me on man it's always

2:08:15a pleasure oh it is we should just do this every week and not put it out no

2:08:21wouldn't it be good for us to be good for us I think we should start our own

2:08:24version of this kids in mind and we'll do our own we'll do our own version

2:08:28we're not gonna count the F words yeah just tell you if they swear no no no

2:08:31we'll make it look no ours is our our sites gonna be called rats in the lobby

2:08:34and we're just gonna let you know if you're if your kids are real punk or

2:08:36pussy just skip it skip it oh god that's the end that's it