The Talk Show

46: Close Encounters of the Seventh Kind


00:00:00   IOS 7? I'm still digesting it. I still can't figure it out yet. I know that I like it.

00:00:09   And last week's episode with Adam and Lisa Gore, a lot of people observed that we criticized a lot.

00:00:15   We spent the whole hour saying what we don't like about IOS 7.

00:00:20   People are like, "Well, now I don't like it." No, that's not true.

00:00:24   know it's just that there is much when you get to the details of it there is

00:00:27   much to criticize right you could like it in it as a basic idea right and

00:00:34   dislike certain of the actual details yeah the the implementation is I mean

00:00:41   there are there are rough spots in it that that I feel are rough and there are

00:00:46   some things that I don't like at first blush but I don't really I don't think

00:00:52   The criticism is something that you've used for a week or two is necessarily the criticism

00:00:58   that you're going to have in two or three months.

00:01:04   That to me is the thing that I – very few people have actually used iOS 7 prior to WWDC.

00:01:10   That's a very small set of people who can provide feedback on how things were done.

00:01:22   obviously a much wider group of people you know throwing in their two cents at

00:01:26   this point I keep coming back to and this is why I wanted you on the show

00:01:31   this week I keep coming back to your observation which was like immediate I

00:01:35   mean it was like day of the thing that it was like it's the equivalent of aqua

00:01:40   in Mac OS 10 right and and our good friend John moltz had a funny post

00:01:48   yesterday on his very nice website where he called it I thought it was yesterday

00:01:55   where the hell is it now it's gone I thought he was quoting maybe it was

00:02:02   earlier in the show maybe it's not on his home page but anyway he quoted a

00:02:06   passage of of John Siracusa's 2000 like 13 year old review of the Mac OS 10

00:02:16   Then maybe it was the public beta at that point, and it said it was polarizing and that

00:02:23   it was too much and stuff like that.

00:02:25   Then he's like, "Oh, I made a mistake.

00:02:27   That was John Syracuse.

00:02:29   Everywhere it says iOS 7 is actually Mac OS X 10.0."

00:02:35   The similarities are remarkable, I think, not aesthetically, but in terms of the response.

00:02:41   Well, it pushed things way, way forward, right?

00:02:45   And in retrospect, it was too far forward, which I think that's fine, right?

00:02:51   That's where you want to be with the design, right?

00:02:54   Go too far and then bring it back.

00:02:59   That's certainly the way Apple approaches bold design changes, is to go too far and

00:03:04   then dial it back as opposed to sort of incrementally trying to push it there.

00:03:09   Yeah, well, again, the thing that I pointed out in that piece I wrote was it's a lot easier

00:03:17   from a design point of view to remove things.

00:03:20   It's like, okay, there was too much transparency.

00:03:23   There was too much lickability.

00:03:26   There was too much of all these things.

00:03:29   And the stripes.

00:03:32   For grins, the other day I booted up an old VM with, I forget which version of 10 point,

00:03:39   Oh, it was, but the stripes, my god.

00:03:44   That at the time was like, oh, wow, this is new, this is different, this is cool, this is, I don't know.

00:03:52   Now it looks really dated.

00:03:54   Well, and it's funny how, in hindsight, I mean, it's, you know, some of the things,

00:04:01   we think about the stripes and we think about the candy colors of the original aqua,

00:04:07   But actually, every single pixel on screen was controversial.

00:04:11   I mean, from corner to corner.

00:04:13   The fact that all text was anti-aliased was hugely controversial.

00:04:18   Because it was, at the time, it was computationally expensive.

00:04:21   It made scrolling slow in a lot of apps, or maybe every app.

00:04:26   Just to page through text was slow.

00:04:29   Yeah, live resizing.

00:04:31   Remember--

00:04:32   Live window resizing was--

00:04:33   That was like, wow.

00:04:35   Wow.

00:04:36   I don't get it like a little X-ord wrecked around my window drag.

00:04:41   It's like, "Wow, this is cool, but man, this makes some apps really slow."

00:04:45   Well, and the other thing that made that look bad was that Windows had live window resizing

00:04:50   and theirs was fast.

00:04:51   Right.

00:04:52   Now, you can excuse it because they weren't doing full text anti-aliasing and they weren't

00:04:56   doing all of these shadows and stuff behind the windows, but the bottom line, though,

00:05:00   that in circa 2000, 2001, 2002, Windows was a very snappy user interface and Mac OS X

00:05:08   was very slow. Just things like, you know, you could actually see it when you click on

00:05:12   a menu, you would see the menu drop down. It actually was visible. You could see the

00:05:19   system drawing the menu because it was transparent and it didn't have to be transparent or translucent,

00:05:24   if you will, but they wanted it to be and it was way, the design was way out ahead of

00:05:29   the hardware.

00:05:30   Yeah, exactly. I think Apple saw where the hardware was going. It's like they saw how

00:05:35   GPUs were becoming much and much more capable, faster. It was all being driven by the game

00:05:43   industry at that point. Everybody's like the success of things like Doom. Everybody's got

00:05:50   to have more textures, more operations per second, more frame rates, that kind of thing.

00:05:58   So it was a pretty good bet on their point, from their point of view, to think, "Okay,

00:06:05   this hardware is going to get a lot better, and let's throw as much of the window manager

00:06:11   as we can at the GPU."

00:06:16   Things like animations and windows fading in and out and all that stuff we take for

00:06:21   granted right now is because they made that bet 13 years ago.

00:06:27   just something like the size of the pixels on our displays at the time, combined with

00:06:33   the fact that most of us at that time were still using CRTs, like on the desktop, right?

00:06:38   I mean, that was actually designed, I mean, now laptops, of course, for LCD, but LCDs

00:06:43   on laptops circa 2000 were actually really, I mean, by today's standards, ridiculously

00:06:48   bad technology, bad viewing angles.

00:06:50   Yeah, they could only say like 16,000 colors in a lot of cases.

00:06:55   You know, it was, they were not great.

00:06:57   brightness was... brightness and contrast were real problems. I mean you really... if

00:07:01   you're doing serious color work you didn't do it on a laptop you did it on a

00:07:04   CRT. Yeah, one that would cost you know thousands and thousands of dollars. But the

00:07:09   pixels were big. I mean it was you know it wasn't quite... they weren't quite as

00:07:13   big as the old 72 pixels per inch of the original Mac but you know it was

00:07:18   somewhere around 96 100 pixels per inch resolution and so anti aliasing ended up

00:07:25   to some people's eyes looking blurry. As opposed to making the fonts look right,

00:07:31   which is the point of it, it made them look blurred, which was obviously not the point.

00:07:36   I mean, hugely controversial. I know a lot of software developers at that point were

00:07:41   doing all sorts of tricks and hacks to get a non-anti-aliased font for their code editor.

00:07:48   Right.

00:07:49   Because they just couldn't abide by it. Yeah. Well, you know, code, you know,

00:07:54   you tend to have a lot of it so you want to as much as you can on the screen to

00:07:57   use a small smaller point size which of course makes the an ideally seem worse

00:08:03   so well and you also want things you really do need to be precise in code so

00:08:08   the difference between a period and a comma is the difference between the line

00:08:12   actually compiles and doesn't compile or a curly brace and a regular parentheses

00:08:19   which in a pixel font you could easily discern the difference and on today's

00:08:24   high resolution and with anti-aliasing you could discern but like in 2000 with

00:08:29   the original you know and switch to anti-aliasing a Mac OS X a curly brace

00:08:33   and in parentheses often would look pretty much indistinguishable yeah it's

00:08:38   one of the things that sucks about getting old right my eyesight is not as

00:08:41   good as you see in that in my code 90% of the problems that I have things just

00:08:48   not compiling are because I didn't look at the code right right the the comment

00:08:54   instead of the period, right? The brace instead of the parentheses.

00:08:58   Well, and you have the extra problem that your hands are the size of a Volkswagen, and

00:09:06   you're trying to press these little keys on a keyboard with these giant four-foot, you

00:09:11   know, fleshy palm.

00:09:12   Yeah.

00:09:13   I don't know how you do it.

00:09:15   We all have our cross to bear.

00:09:17   But anyway, I think the analogy cannot be overstated, that this is the aqua for iOS.

00:09:27   Yeah.

00:09:28   It just struck me.

00:09:31   It was like, even the title, when I've been there, done that, it's like, "Oh, God, this

00:09:36   is just…"

00:09:37   Because it was the same sense of shock.

00:09:39   I mean, we were actually at Macworld when they announced this.

00:09:42   me yet Corey was there maybe Talos but we walked out of that that

00:09:50   presentation just going what the hell just happened that's the only rock our

00:09:55   world totally changed the way we thought about icons just it was literally shock

00:10:01   these are your your colleagues at yeah yeah exactly yeah and I guess in some

00:10:08   ways it was great for you guys because you know your contract work doing

00:10:12   icon design obviously you know and again it's similar to this where every single

00:10:18   icon in every single app had to be redone yeah they immediately look old

00:10:22   right they immediately look bad and it took us a period of time to learn how to

00:10:28   do these new icons in fact it's it's funny we're going through that same

00:10:31   process now hey well that's what I'm saying it's exactly you know it's very

00:10:36   very similar.

00:10:37   And one of the interesting things to me is that, in one of the discussions we were having

00:10:45   last week about this, is that a lot of this thing that we're seeing in iOS 7 sort of goes

00:10:53   back to the days of when there were 8-bit icons or 16-color icons, where you had to

00:11:02   really rely on the symbology, the simplified color palette.

00:11:07   You couldn't get into a whole lot of 3D kind of stuff

00:11:14   because you couldn't carry it off

00:11:17   given the constraints of the design.

00:11:21   So we're sort of seeing that same thing with iOS 7.

00:11:26   In fact, another.

00:11:31   thing that came up during that discussion is that designing icons now is more like the

00:11:38   poster design of the 70s.

00:11:40   In fact, I found it really interesting.

00:11:42   You and I posted that link to the poster design.

00:11:46   Just a few hours before recording today on Friday.

00:11:50   So you were posted to – yours was?

00:11:55   Peter Max.

00:11:56   Right.

00:11:57   Yeah.

00:11:58   Again, some of the bright colors and the gradients.

00:12:00   But I think your link is actually better and that it shows – it focused on the symbology.

00:12:07   My name came from a daring fireball reader who sent this in and it just kind of – really

00:12:14   just kind of blew me away.

00:12:15   This was Samuel Iglesias who sent me a link to – I'm going to butcher his name because

00:12:21   he's German – Otto Eicher's 1972 Munich Olympic design work.

00:12:27   I've certainly have seen the 1972 Munich Olympics are famous in graphic design circles because

00:12:34   a lot of the stuff that they did there, like the pictographs, the icons that depict the

00:12:40   sports, they stuck around. They weren't just used for that Olympic. They're sort of like

00:12:44   used today. But before 1972, they didn't have those things. So you would just sort of have

00:12:49   this like a true icon, like an icon in the sense that we design app icons today or toolbar

00:12:56   icons today. An icon of a guy shooting a basketball and that meant go this way to see basketball.

00:13:04   Here's a guy sprinting. This is where track and field is. It's amazing. It's not just

00:13:11   the icons though. The type is all very lightweight. It's not Helvetica, but it's a Swiss font.

00:13:19   Yeah, it's a thin—

00:13:21   Very light stroke weights. I think it's universe, actually. I didn't actually even

00:13:27   study it, but just thinking about it in my head, it's probably universe, which is an

00:13:32   alternative to a alvetica.

00:13:36   Yeah, I was 12 years old at the time, and I remember looking at those symbols and going,

00:13:43   "Wow, these are really cool. These are really basic shapes, but they convey a lot of information."

00:13:50   And for me, I was just starting to appreciate design at that point in my life. And it was

00:13:56   like, "Wow, this is what design is." And it was kind of a real eye-opening moment for

00:14:05   me. And the fact that I still remember it so many years later shows you how much of

00:14:13   of an impact it had on me.

00:14:15   The one thing that--

00:14:16   I don't even know what it is, a poster?

00:14:18   Maybe it's a cover of a program.

00:14:20   But it's obviously some sort of print design thing

00:14:23   that I linked to.

00:14:25   It says Olympics spielmünchen 1972,

00:14:30   however you pronounce it in German.

00:14:31   But it's the German, you know, Munich Olympics 1972.

00:14:34   And it has a little Olympic logo.

00:14:35   And I don't know what the other logo is.

00:14:37   But it's just these--

00:14:39   I'll put it in the show notes.

00:14:40   but it looks like it could be the poster to announce the new iPhone.

00:14:46   It looks like just change the type at the bottom and it looks like it could say iOS

00:14:51   7 2013, iPhone 6 or iPhone 5S or whatever.

00:14:57   This could be the decoration on the Buena Vista Theater in San Francisco come September

00:15:05   for the new iPhone.

00:15:06   Well, it's also, you know, if you look at it, it's all complementary colors, right?

00:15:11   The yellow versus the blue, purple, the red versus the green.

00:15:17   And that's a lot of what they're doing with the Iowa 7 colors.

00:15:22   Absolutely.

00:15:23   I mean, in particular, here's two that really jump out to me are the green on the far right.

00:15:30   It's in a triangle.

00:15:31   That green to me looks like the green of the new message and phone icons.

00:15:35   in on the other side, the red, which is sort of a vaguely pinkish red. Tell me that's not

00:15:41   the new music app. I mean, that is the color of the music app. Like, it's not truly red.

00:15:47   There is a sort of pink to it, but it's not like a girly pink. It's, I don't know. I'm

00:15:53   not, I have strong opinions on colors, but often find it hard to describe them.

00:15:58   Yeah, it's, you know, it all goes back to the, you know, good artists borrow great artists

00:16:10   steal kind of thing.

00:16:11   You know, it's very much this idea of this bold vibrant color scheme is something that's

00:16:21   been done before.

00:16:22   Yeah.

00:16:23   Well--

00:16:24   You know, like Peter Max or Otto Eichler or, you know, it's interesting that both of these

00:16:28   happened in the 70s. This is a very 70s kind of color scheme that's going on here.

00:16:32   You know, and color trends are an interesting thing to study over time.

00:16:36   Yeah, exactly.

00:16:38   Sometimes they're inspired by world events, you know, like the 40s were very, you know,

00:16:46   just everything in the 40s was typically a very drab because, you know, my god, the whole world

00:16:52   was at war. It was a serious and terrible decade. And then in the '50s, everything got real poppy

00:17:00   and vibrant. It was almost because they'd been—you don't have to be a psychologist to

00:17:05   sort of assume that everybody—the economy was booming, middle class was booming worldwide,

00:17:10   World War was over. It seemed like we were making great technological progress. So everything

00:17:15   went real poppy in the '50s. But then other times, I think color trends are driven by technology.

00:17:21   And I think a lot of that happened in the 70s where there was so much—I mean, everybody

00:17:26   makes fun of polyester clothes and stuff like that.

00:17:29   But because you could use plastics to make clothing, you could produce clothing in incredibly

00:17:35   vibrant colors.

00:17:36   Yes, synthetic inks as well.

00:17:39   And what's the acrylic paint, things like that.

00:17:45   That were just—these are new things, right?

00:17:48   Let's use them.

00:17:49   It's also interesting that a lot of these colors that I see in iOS 7 are things that

00:17:55   you see in the younger generation wearing now, right?

00:18:01   It's like the very vibrant colors kind of in right now.

00:18:07   And as older people, we may be looking at this going, "Oh, yeah," because we're used

00:18:13   to something that we've been living with for the last 10, 20 years, whereas the younger

00:18:19   generation, it's all new. They're like, "This is cool." I think they're going to love it,

00:18:26   actually.

00:18:27   I do, too. I just went by here in Philly just this week. I've just been thinking about these

00:18:34   things nonstop. I walked by a restaurant here in downtown Philly, a nice place, and had

00:18:41   a lot of outdoor seating and there were a big crowd there, real busy and there's 7,

00:18:47   637 on a nice sunny day and a lot of well-dressed people, just people out for dinner. I noticed

00:18:56   a lot of women wearing colors that to me look like these colors of iOS 7, blouses and skirts

00:19:04   shoes and purses. It just looked to me like the collage of people. It was like, wow. I

00:19:14   really was struck. I saw this sort of fuchsia color, the purples.

00:19:22   Let me ask you a question. Do you think they're going to come out with bone colors that match

00:19:27   this color scheme you know black and white and purple I wouldn't be surprised

00:19:35   yeah I thought that I actually thought that a year ago when they came out with

00:19:43   the it was September and it was the iPhone and the new iPod touch and it's a

00:19:53   There are funny things to release side by side.

00:19:57   The iPod Touch is not that big a deal to Apple.

00:20:00   In terms of how many millions they sell per quarter, even if you assume all iPods are

00:20:05   iPod Touches, it's not that big of a percentage.

00:20:08   But it's sizable enough.

00:20:11   But the funny thing is that the iPod Touch has always made the current iPhone feel thick

00:20:16   and heavy.

00:20:17   Yeah.

00:20:18   I was just going to say it's sort of like...

00:20:19   All the way back to the first one.

00:20:21   sort of their prototype for what the iPhone is going to become.

00:20:24   Right?

00:20:25   It's the, you know, let's try out these new things.

00:20:29   Let's see how small we can get this thing, how light we can get it, you know, metal back.

00:20:35   And I forget who I was there.

00:20:38   I think I was there with – I mean, it was all the press guys, you know, who were in

00:20:42   the hands-on area right after the keynote's over.

00:20:44   I think I was with MG Siegler.

00:20:47   And most people were crowding around the iPhones.

00:20:51   And I got some time with the iPhone 5 and thought, "This is great."

00:20:57   But I knew that Apple was going to give me one as a review unit.

00:21:01   So I wasn't that concerned about getting that much time with it.

00:21:04   So I went to the iPod Touches because they were less of a crowd around them in the tables.

00:21:10   And MG and I looked at it and we're like, "This is the iPhone in two years.

00:21:14   I don't know if it's going to be curved, but it's going to be this crazy thin, and I think

00:21:19   the colors…

00:21:20   That was exactly my impression of seeing it for the first time, too, including the colors.

00:21:27   Right.

00:21:28   This is where they're going.

00:21:30   This is a glimpse of the future.

00:21:34   And another thing people have brought up, Brent Simmons was actually just asking me

00:21:39   about it the other day on our little Q branch internal thing.

00:21:43   How much of these new colors reminiscent of the classic six-color Apple logo?

00:21:50   Yeah.

00:21:51   Well, but that, you know, my colleague Gideon, in a similar kind of situation, just chatting

00:21:59   between ourselves, made the observation, it's like, "Those are the colors of the rainbow."

00:22:05   Right?

00:22:06   So, it's like saying, "Okay, you know, is it on the color wheel?"

00:22:11   "Yes."

00:22:12   The fact that they're all primary, I think is the important thing.

00:22:19   The reason that this seems to some people's eyes that it's garish is because these are

00:22:24   all primary colors, right?

00:22:25   There are no in-betweens.

00:22:29   In your face, primary, primary.

00:22:33   Like this poster from the Olympics.

00:22:36   It's all very primary color.

00:22:38   In fact, it's a color wheel.

00:22:41   I do think that I mean would I bet on it I guess not I mean because they've gone

00:22:49   so many years with only black and white iPhones but I don't know it's it just

00:22:55   seems to me like a way that they could make a splash and it just seems like

00:22:59   that's the trend that they're going to and it seems like that's what this OS

00:23:03   was meant for.

00:23:04   Tim Weiss To me, you could probably tell if you knew

00:23:11   what the sales were for cases.

00:23:13   I mean, are fewer people using a case with the iPhone 5?

00:23:17   Dave Asprey I don't know.

00:23:19   Tim Weiss That's really the thing.

00:23:23   People like to personalize their phone with the case.

00:23:31   I personally don't use the case anymore.

00:23:35   The edges are all beat up and everything.

00:23:38   The thing is that the iPhone 5 is a tank.

00:23:40   It doesn't look like it.

00:23:41   It doesn't feel like it initially.

00:23:43   But I dropped it a whole bunch of times.

00:23:47   For me, the $50 Apple Care is the case.

00:23:52   If I drop it, I break it.

00:23:54   Okay, I have to spend $50 to have a new phone.

00:23:59   Do you know how much money I've spent on AppleCare since 1991?

00:24:04   Oh, jeez. I don't even want to think about it.

00:24:07   Zero. Zero dollars.

00:24:08   Really?

00:24:09   I have never spent it.

00:24:10   No way.

00:24:11   I got AppleCare in 1991 for the Mac I got when I went as a freshman to college. And

00:24:17   I did use it. I actually used it. I forget what I had to replace on it. Something did

00:24:21   go bad and I did get to take advantage of it. But then ever since, I have never once

00:24:25   gotten AppleCare on a single Apple product.

00:24:28   You're a lucky bastard.

00:24:30   And now, at this point, I'm so far ahead that I could have a total catastrophe like a—

00:24:38   Yeah.

00:24:39   And you just go, "Yeah, okay, whatever.

00:24:41   It's $800 for a new iPhone."

00:24:43   Right.

00:24:44   Or get a new MacBook Air for $1200 or something like that.

00:24:48   And I would still be ahead.

00:24:50   I've saved so much money on not getting AppleCare just by rolling the dice.

00:24:56   Yeah.

00:24:57   I debated with it. My wife recently got a 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro and I debated with

00:25:05   that because I mean think about it. What is it in that thing to break other than the screen?

00:25:09   It's got a solid-state drive. It's just, you know, okay, yeah, she might spill coffee on

00:25:16   it but she's not that careless. So, I don't know.

00:25:23   I don't know. It's turned into a thing for me now where I don't even consider it.

00:25:30   Counterculture.

00:25:32   I think it started because when I got in—I forget when I bought my 9600, which was one

00:25:38   of my all-time favorite Macs. I'd loaded—I mean, it was like I bankrupted myself to get

00:25:45   a Power Mac 9600 in 1996 or so.

00:25:50   Was that the one that was really hard to open and get inside? Yeah. It was and it was the

00:25:57   last of the or what either the last or one of the last before they went to the G3. And

00:26:04   I think I bought it after the G Power Mac G3 was announced, but the 9600 had like debuted

00:26:11   at like, I don't know, like four or $5,000 retail. But when the G3 came out, they cut

00:26:16   the price to I don't know, something like three, three grand or something like that.

00:26:19   Yeah, so it seemed like a good deal.

00:26:22   It seemed like a great deal and spec wise it was, you know, in some ways superior to the G3.

00:26:27   It was more of a pro. It was in the way that like the G3 was, I think the backstrand,

00:26:32   it doesn't want to say.

00:26:33   Yeah, it had like multiple processors. I think I can remember it was like the first

00:26:38   Mac with multiple processors.

00:26:40   Syracuse will send me an email and straighten me out.

00:26:43   [Laughter]

00:26:44   My recollection of it is that the G3 was originally conceived only as a consumer

00:26:50   CPU and chipset and it just ended up being so fast. It was so fast, so efficient, and such a

00:26:58   great chip that they used it for pro, you know, for the Power Mac because it was just so fast,

00:27:05   but it really wasn't designed for it originally. And so the 90, the Power Mac 9600 which had like a,

00:27:11   Now here's where I'm going to botch it. It had like a PowerPC 604 or something. I don't know.

00:27:17   They had weird numbers back then. But it had more drive bays and expansion and it had a better video

00:27:23   card and stuff like that. Anyway, but I spent so much money on it and had so little to left,

00:27:28   you know, just cutting so much into every single dollar I had to my name that I couldn't even afford

00:27:33   the AppleCare, so I didn't get it. And now that iPhone that's in your pocket is like 10 times

00:27:38   that's more powerful than that machine.

00:27:41   - Oh, easily.

00:27:42   Here, let me take a break.

00:27:44   Let me take a break and do the first sponsor.

00:27:47   I want to thank Transporter by Connected Data

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00:28:46   storage means that if you have two of them in your house, they'll sync up with

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00:29:41   having your own little private Dropbox I implore you to to check them out yeah

00:29:46   the syncing between the two devices that's pretty interesting things it's

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00:29:55   You can put one at your parents' house or your friend's house or something like that,

00:29:59   someone you trust, or your office, you know, you could put if you have a separate office

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00:31:01   transporter that's an interesting concept that we do a lot of NDA work for

00:31:11   clients where we can't tell anybody about anything that we do and yeah I

00:31:19   worry sometimes that that that data is gonna get exposed somehow and having it

00:31:26   under your control yeah I feel attractive thing I feel nervous you know

00:31:31   about you know and and Dropbox is a great service but you know oh yeah

00:31:36   Dropbox is you know it's not in your control if they have some kind of

00:31:40   sharing hole or something like that or using some kind of thing where you're

00:31:46   sharing these URLs that are secured by obscurity, just a big long string of characters or something

00:31:56   like that, and anybody can see it. I always worry that someone's going to paste that in

00:32:00   a tweet or something like that. When they thought they were pasting it into a DM, and

00:32:05   then all of a sudden it's there on Twitter and indexed by Google and stuff like that.

00:32:09   So, anyway, you were saying that my iPhone 5 has ten times more processing power than

00:32:17   my 1996 Power Mac 9600.

00:32:21   Probably more.

00:32:22   I would guess way more than ten times.

00:32:25   That puts the thing that Marco and Alan wrote yesterday about iOS 7 being kind of a defensive

00:32:34   thing into even better perspective.

00:32:37   like they're really iowa 7 is really pushing the hardware it's clearly doing stuff that

00:32:45   is hard to do like if you've ever done a blur um i've done it quickly you know how hard

00:32:53   it i remember i've now my days when i spend a lot of time in photoshop are dated but that

00:32:59   actually puts it in you know in perspective because this is back when i was doing stuff

00:33:03   like on a power Mac 9600 and in the late 90s and stuff like that when I just

00:33:07   doing more design work I remember when bringing up the Gaussian blurb plug-in

00:33:12   for Photoshop when you hit return you you had some time to wait right you you

00:33:18   would you know configure it get it set right and then you went to apply it and

00:33:24   then you had to wait and see if you like the results yeah and that was just for

00:33:29   still image, perhaps not even that big of an image, as opposed to rendering it live at 60 frames per

00:33:36   second. That's the 60 frames a second is the killer, right? It's got to be quick. It's got to really,

00:33:41   really fly. And it's interesting to me, I don't think I'm probably a little bit breaking the NDA

00:33:49   here, but there's no way to blur an exposed public API. So that's that says something, right? If I

00:33:57   Right, if I clear, they're probably taking some shortcuts,

00:34:01   they're probably doing some stuff that's a little optimized

00:34:06   more than is probably good for public consumption.

00:34:10   So yeah, that one thing is really pushing the parallax stuff

00:34:15   and that's compositing layers based upon

00:34:22   accelerometer inputs, that's no easy thing to do either.

00:34:27   do either. So the dynamics, everything bouncing around and

00:34:31   moving, you know, the physics engines. And that's going to be

00:34:38   a hard thing to copy. It is especially especially if you're

00:34:41   just in that cheapo, you know, Android phone. No costs. But

00:34:49   with a contract. Yeah, you're screwed. So what we're talking

00:34:53   about it's Alan Pike. What's the name of the software company where Alan does his stuff?

00:35:00   He has a really great app called Party Monster that if you've never checked out, man, is

00:35:04   that a great app.

00:35:05   Tim Cynova He's Canadian, but I'll let it slide.

00:35:08   Dave Asprey Steamclock.com, Alan Pike. But he wrote

00:35:12   a blog post, iOS 7, catch me if you can. And then Marco Arment had a piece, sort of, I

00:35:21   I don't even know if you referenced Alan's, but it was sort of along the same lines though.

00:35:26   But his use of the word defense, I'm not sure I agree with.

00:35:33   I think you could argue about whether this is defense or pure offense.

00:35:38   This is an offensive maneuver to do something that other platforms can't do.

00:35:48   To be honest, I don't think it's either.

00:35:50   I think it's a purely design decision.

00:35:53   They were looking for a way to knock back content, have the content there, give you

00:35:58   a reference point, but not really see it.

00:36:01   So again, probably somebody said, "It would really be good if we had a blur here and then

00:36:07   some brilliant engineer figured out a way to do it and make it fast."

00:36:10   Yeah, and I think a lot of this goes hand in hand where it's not just, "Hey, we have

00:36:16   these powerful GPUs and these devices now let's take advantage of them I think

00:36:21   it goes back to why they started putting these powerful GPUs into these devices

00:36:26   yeah you know and there have been some devices that have been underpowered GPU

00:36:35   wise I think you know I'm curious you know and this is NDA territory you

00:36:39   can't really talk about it because the whole iPad version of iOS 7 it was not

00:36:44   really shown at WWDC. It came out last week. I don't have a ton of iPads around it, but

00:36:51   I'm curious because I think that the iPad 3, the first Retina iPad, it was pretty fast,

00:36:58   but I think a lot of people agreed that the GPU was getting pushed pretty hard. Why did

00:37:04   they replace it six months later? It wasn't just to get the lightning port in there. I

00:37:08   I think that you know they put a much better GPU in there to push all those

00:37:13   pixels around so I'm curious whether there's going to be a difference and

00:37:16   noticeable difference in performance on the iPad 3 versus iPad 4 I don't even

00:37:21   know like tonight I'm not even avoiding it because I the NDA yeah some of but I

00:37:26   do think that that's the act that I think they said this publicly I'm pretty

00:37:30   sure they did but the the the iPhone or of yeah I think it's iPhone 4 doesn't get some

00:37:43   of these more GPU intensive operations right so okay it's in fact it's it's gonna be interesting

00:37:52   you know a lot of people are gonna need to test their apps on iPhone 4 as well as you

00:37:58   Yeah, but I definitely think that that's why they've been pushing these GPUs, you know,

00:38:06   that are maybe even more than what's necessary just to move the pixels like an iOS 6 around

00:38:11   on screen.

00:38:12   I think it's because they've been wanting to go in this direction.

00:38:15   Yeah, it's kind of the same.

00:38:17   You know, we're back to Aqua, right?

00:38:18   You know, they're pushing the GPUs as much as they possibly can, and the fact that they're

00:38:23   pushing them means that their suppliers make them faster, and then they push those faster

00:38:29   ones even more, and then faster ones.

00:38:34   No one can argue that the experience we have about iOS now is vastly superior than what

00:38:39   we had back in 2007.

00:38:42   2007 was awesome, but it's pretty amazing to me how far we've gone in just that short

00:38:51   period of time.

00:38:52   Right. Well, like one of the big things in 2007 that, you know, it seems like a distant

00:38:57   memory but you think about it and it's crazy. It was the way that when you'd scroll in a

00:39:04   long Safari page, you'd get that checkerboard design because there wasn't enough RAM to

00:39:10   keep the whole contents in memory and the video card couldn't really keep up. You know,

00:39:17   and it was an interesting decision that they made. That was sort of, I've written about

00:39:21   this but it was sort of the opposite of what they did with Mac OS X back in 2000

00:39:28   like you mentioned window resizing so in 2000 they came out Mac OS X and when

00:39:33   you resized a window the contents always were remained for complete fidelity and

00:39:39   if the frame rate of the dragging the window had to suffer then so be it but

00:39:45   that meant that sometimes you'd resize a window and it was real real stuttery

00:39:49   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:39:51   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:39:52   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:39:53   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:39:54   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:39:55   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:39:56   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:39:57   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:39:58   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:39:59   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:40:00   Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck Chuck

00:40:01   Whereas in the original iPhone, they prioritized responsiveness to your touch.

00:40:08   And so if you're scrolling real fast on a web page, we're going to scroll at the same

00:40:13   pace your finger's moving, even if it means we can't show you the web page and have to

00:40:17   show you just a checkerboard pattern.

00:40:21   But like that checkerboard pattern, could you imagine seeing that now on an iPhone 5?

00:40:25   It would be shocking.

00:40:26   Just the fact that you just mentioned it, and I was thinking to myself, "When was the

00:40:29   last time I saw that?"

00:40:31   It would be shocking to see it now.

00:40:33   Yeah.

00:40:34   Well, they did a lot of stuff internally to prioritize those touches ahead of drawing.

00:40:43   The input device was more important than the output device, which was, like you said, the

00:40:48   opposite on Aqua.

00:40:50   the Windows server was the most important thing, not the thing that grabbed the mouse

00:40:55   input.

00:40:56   All right.

00:40:57   One of the other implications of Alan Pike's and Marco's argument, and I completely agree

00:41:02   with, is that these changes to iOS apps are going to make it extremely difficult to copy

00:41:12   or to fake.

00:41:14   And by fake, I mean specifically websites and web apps.

00:41:18   Oh, God.

00:41:19   Well, but here's the thing. I don't know though that we're going to, you know, I think that

00:41:25   they're not going to disappear. I think they're just going to hang around and look iOS 60

00:41:29   for years to come. You know, like this, the idea that you should make an iPhone optimized

00:41:36   website, that's great. That's a great idea because it is a weird shape and it, you know,

00:41:41   responsive design techniques can give you a site that it just fits perfectly.

00:41:45   Yes, I agree 100%.

00:41:47   But it should still look like a website. It shouldn't look like an app, right? With the nav bar at the top and these back buttons and stuff like that.

00:41:55   But there's no way that a web, a mobile web thing is going to be able to copy this iOS 7 look and feel for years to come.

00:42:01   And even when they do, my god, think about the nightmare of trying to make it look the same across platforms.

00:42:06   Yeah, this whole thing with the bullshit Chrome, it goes against what everybody has been promoting

00:42:16   for so many years, and that's, you know, put your content first.

00:42:19   And that's really what's happening with iOS 7 now.

00:42:22   And a lot of people are going to have problems with that.

00:42:25   The notion of, okay, it's not all about the buttons and controls, it's about what's on

00:42:29   the page.

00:42:30   What are you reading?

00:42:31   You know, what is the thing that's important for you to interact with?

00:42:35   the content not all the

00:42:37   Controls and Chrome and all that other bullshit. Those are just means to an end at the end is I want to read something

00:42:44   wanna

00:42:47   Submit an order. I want to just

00:42:49   Perform some sort of action

00:42:52   Yeah, and you know that I hope more we see more responsive designs as a result of this idea I

00:43:01   I'm dubious as to whether that's happening because then people are

00:43:04   they get they they can't see the

00:43:07   you know the forest for the trees right and that it's

00:43:11   You want you want that responsive design because it puts your content

00:43:19   Forward

00:43:22   Makes it easy for people to interact with it. Did you just get contacted by the close encounters?

00:43:29   Yeah, I have a little thing that reminds me every hour that it's gone on the hour so

00:43:34   Yeah, it was it. They're coming to get me

00:43:37   You know the funny thing about that tone is that I saw Close Encounters way after I saw

00:43:50   Actually forget which Bond movie it is, but it's one of the Roger Moore Bond movies, and he's in Venice. Oh, it's Moonraker

00:43:57   and he's breaking into the the bad guy Drax is secret lab and there's a

00:44:06   passcode on the door and the tone of the the thing is the close encounters tone

00:44:13   and so that you know that was like a little homage from the bond people to

00:44:18   close encounters which came out a year or two before but I thought when I heard

00:44:22   when I saw close encounters as a kid then years after I'd seen moonraker I

00:44:25   I thought that Close Encounters ripped off James Bond. I was like, "That's outrageous!

00:44:30   That was the code from Moonraker!" Anyway, that's my funny story about Close Encounters.

00:44:38   You have very good attention for detail.

00:44:42   Certain things like that always stick out to me. It just seems so obvious to me when

00:44:46   I saw the Bond movie that they were making a big deal out of the tone that the code made.

00:44:53   What were we talking about before I got distracted by the aliens?

00:44:59   Oh, just the whole notion of content first.

00:45:02   Oh, and copying the look and feel, right.

00:45:05   Yeah.

00:45:06   Yeah, because imagine how weird.

00:45:08   I think it looks so weird now where when you're in iOS 6, just iOS as we know it.

00:45:14   But Safari has Chrome.

00:45:16   It has a tool bar, an address bar at the top and a tool bar at the bottom.

00:45:24   I think it looks so stupid when a website draws its own nav bar under the Safari nav

00:45:30   bar.

00:45:31   So you've got a nav bar in a nav bar?

00:45:34   It's so crazy to me.

00:45:36   John: And it's hiding the stuff that I want to read.

00:45:39   It's like, "Okay, yeah, you've done your little branding thing.

00:45:43   Great.

00:45:44   I've got no affinity for your brand because of that. I'm just like I want to

00:45:50   get off that site as soon as I can. You know and a lot of times you know these

00:45:54   ones that take over the scrolling I'll often just back out and it's like you

00:45:59   guys are screwing with my fingers. I don't need this shit. I can't even

00:46:04   imagine how bad it's gonna look going forward as on iOS 7 though where you

00:46:10   have this almost no-Chrome look to Safari and to the apps, and then you're going to

00:46:15   have this heavy, iOS 6-style website nav bar underneath. It just shows what a bad idea

00:46:24   it was to ever go that way with mobile web design, to just add Chrome as opposed to just

00:46:31   focusing on pure content. I do think it's going to be tough to copy, though. I think

00:46:39   I think it's funny too because a lot of people push back, I know on Marco in particular,

00:46:44   he tweeted yesterday after his post that the response from, I don't know what you would

00:46:51   call them, Android fans or critics of iOS 7, I don't know, was more or less, "Why would

00:46:58   anybody want to copy iOS 7? It's horrible." Which I think is how these changes always

00:47:04   go from Apple. Now that's not to say that they're never gonna botch one and you

00:47:08   know maybe we're wrong and iOS 7 is it. I'm not saying that it's there's any

00:47:12   sort of certainty that iOS 7 is going to be a long-term hit but the way these

00:47:16   things go is Apple produces a design that is radical in some way. Often or

00:47:25   usually the ones that are controversial are the ones that somehow seem I don't

00:47:33   know playful youthful right think about like the original bone deep blue iMac

00:47:41   when the plastic clear plastics Mac OS 10 1.0 with aqua and now this with iOS

00:47:53   7 those sort of changes not let's say like the new Mac Pro that they announced

00:47:57   which is radical design but isn't open to criticism of being childish or I don't know,

00:48:06   dismissive that way. That it's a toy or something like that. With these ones that get that sort

00:48:14   of accusation, they get mocked for a while and then people sort of shut up about them

00:48:20   for a while and then all of a sudden everybody comes out with things that look like that.

00:48:25   And it's all killer and then and but then everybody but then it's instead of any sort of acknowledgement that yeah, Apple

00:48:33   Trailblazed on this and we were wrong it then turns to Apple didn't invent this Apple didn't invent transparent plastic

00:48:41   Right, right, right. They were just the first ones that had the balls to use it

00:48:46   It's interesting that you know you talking about Android. It's like some of the apps that Google in particular

00:48:54   In case I'm going to use it, it's the one I use all the time, it's Google Maps.

00:48:59   That's a very minimal design.

00:49:01   That's something that has tried hard to get rid of Chrome.

00:49:05   It's something that's already heading down the path that iOS 7 has given us.

00:49:17   Was Android going to head in that direction as well?

00:49:22   Probably.

00:49:23   Yeah.

00:49:24   Windows Phone has kind of gone in that direction, right?

00:49:27   It's like, I don't think, I don't want to say Apple's not pushing design-wise, but there

00:49:37   seems to be an overall trend right now, kind of like those posters in the 70s, you know,

00:49:44   this is where we are at as a culture, you know, let's try to minimize what we see on

00:49:51   our touch screens.

00:49:52   Yeah, I think there's a certain humility to Apple going in this direction after, certainly

00:49:59   after Windows Phone and Windows 8. I think Windows 8 is better, is more ahead of the

00:50:08   design curve than Android. I think Android is too all over the place. There is no, you

00:50:12   know, there's, if you've ever looked at like an Android phone, even a Nexus device, there's

00:50:17   parts of it that seem new and better designed, and then other parts that, you know…

00:50:23   Yeah, yeah, it's a bit of a mishmash.

00:50:25   …a lot of it still to me feels like just a webpage, even though it's native software.

00:50:30   But I never get that feel from the Windows 8, the Metro look. And I think part of it is

00:50:39   there is a little bit of a humility to Apple being, in certain regards, a follower of this trend.

00:50:45   Right.

00:50:46   Where if you were defensive about being Mighty Apple leader of the design world, you don't

00:50:55   want to ever be seen as a follower.

00:50:57   But I think that they, I would say admirably, are doing the right thing, not worrying about

00:51:04   whether they're the first to do it or not.

00:51:08   that it's clearly the right way to go

00:51:13   to minimize the amount of Chrome,

00:51:17   at least I should say clearly the right way to go

00:51:21   from my point of view.

00:51:23   And for them to recognize that,

00:51:31   yeah, you're right that there's a bit of humility there,

00:51:34   but they're also gonna put their own spin on it,

00:51:37   and they're gonna, maybe that's one of the reasons

00:51:40   why they've went too far, right?

00:51:43   Sort of like, you know, with Aqua,

00:51:46   and that they'll push as far forward as they think they can

00:51:51   and then retreat a little bit to something

00:51:55   that they're really happy with.

00:51:58   Chances are they're not really happy

00:52:00   with the design right now.

00:52:01   If it's only been in existence for seven or eight months,

00:52:06   I'm pretty sure they're not happy with it in certain respects.

00:52:11   It's too new.

00:52:12   Right?

00:52:13   And I think that they're pressing-- and this sort of gets back

00:52:19   to a point that we talked about before-- they're

00:52:20   pressing in a certain regard of pushing

00:52:22   the technical limits of the devices, which

00:52:24   is a thing that Google can't do with Android

00:52:28   and Microsoft can't do with Windows 8,

00:52:32   at least for mobile devices.

00:52:34   Yeah, totally make their own.

00:52:35   because they can't cut off hardware like apple can and they can't right to i mean

00:52:41   that however many uh... you know there's a bunch of i've found some i pads that

00:52:46   are running they're gonna run i was seven

00:52:49   compared to all other

00:52:51   mobile platforms in the world it's a very minimal number

00:52:54   and apple can literally and i think this might be

00:52:57   why some of these the facts might be not public a_p_ eyes and private a_p_s_ is

00:53:02   that they can literally

00:53:04   right

00:53:05   to the specific GPUs of the devices that they support

00:53:08   because there's only, I don't know what, eight, nine,

00:53:11   10 devices or probably fewer GPUs, you know, the A5, the A6.

00:53:16   - Or they can just say, sorry, you're out of luck, right?

00:53:20   - Right. - You got an iPhone 3GS?

00:53:22   Well, it's had its day.

00:53:23   - You don't even-- - Time to get a new phone.

00:53:25   - And yeah, you don't even get the OS

00:53:27   and if you have an iPhone 4,

00:53:28   we're not gonna try to do these blurs.

00:53:30   - Right. - You know,

00:53:31   that you were never, you know,

00:53:33   you've had a good run with your phone and yeah good one Google would Google

00:53:36   would never do that I mean because they want as many eyeballs as possible

00:53:40   looking at their ads right this is a totally counter what and Apple's doing

00:53:46   it because they want the best user experience but the big thing and this is

00:53:49   the thing that I think is going to be tricky because I think it's new

00:53:52   territory is that the difference can't be shown in a still screenshot or

00:54:01   photograph yeah that's not still screenshot of Google Maps versus you

00:54:10   know on Android you know which looks a lot like the one on the iPhone versus

00:54:14   you know apps on iOS 7 it doesn't it does look a lot more alike than when you

00:54:19   actually use it and you see this and feel this fluidity and parallax and

00:54:25   and depth and stuff like that.

00:54:28   Yeah, I was, I mean, I had seen iOS 7 on the screen, but then actually holding it in your

00:54:35   hand on the device is a totally different experience.

00:54:38   Totally different.

00:54:40   Something that Android did years before iOS, years before, so full credit to them, is motion

00:54:46   backgrounds, like wallpapers.

00:54:52   But they just animate with absolutely no regard to the device orientation.

00:54:57   They move in a certain way.

00:54:58   And they've had a thing too where they've had a parallax where when you swipe between

00:55:02   home screens the background moves in a certain way.

00:55:08   Whereas with the motion graphics of the wallpapers in iOS, the motion actually, it changes even

00:55:17   as you just subtly twist you know just five degrees the phone in your hand the

00:55:22   the bubbles move in you know in that way I mean and it's it's startling really I

00:55:30   did not expect that to have as much impact on me as it did when I held it in

00:55:36   my hand right like wow this this works I thought it was you know there's gonna be

00:55:41   gimmick but no this is not a gimmick this really does reinforce the layers of

00:55:48   UI hierarchy. And it you know again not to just play up their own Apple's own

00:55:56   design propaganda you know with this new campaign but it really does start with

00:56:01   not they clearly started with not what should it look like but the question

00:56:06   they started with is how should it feel?

00:56:10   I mean, and that's really, I think it's a tricky thing to convey in going forward in

00:56:16   print and, you know, websites and stuff like that.

00:56:20   And how do you make these, how do you show it when it's really about what it's like in

00:56:24   your hand?

00:56:25   Because even the motion desktop thing, that you can't even show in a movie because you

00:56:29   really have to have the thing in your hand and twist it to see what the heck is going

00:56:33   on.

00:56:34   I had the Apple store.

00:56:36   It's going to be interesting that when this thing rolls out, that I'm absolutely sure

00:56:43   I'm going to get a call from my sister-in-law going, "What happened to my phone?"

00:56:50   I gave the iOS 7 device to my wife the other night and she still does not know how to search

00:56:58   for apps.

00:57:00   She just did not find it.

00:57:01   She kept trying to keep going to the left.

00:57:03   There's nothing over there.

00:57:05   I did not say anything.

00:57:07   I'm going to keep installing betas and watching her use it because it's really interesting

00:57:15   to watch somebody who doesn't follow the tech industry closely interact with this stuff.

00:57:21   She had a lot of positive things to say about it.

00:57:25   The icons.

00:57:27   Amy said the same thing.

00:57:29   In two weeks, you're not going to remember what the old ones looked like.

00:57:32   absolutely right. Very true. Let's come back to it. Let me do the second sponsor break

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00:59:52   the one more point I wanted to make about iOS 7 to get back to where we were beforehand

00:59:56   is I do have a lot of complaints about specific design decisions that they've made. And I

01:00:01   think that there's an unprecedented in Apple, other than again the Mac OS X public betas

01:00:08   from over a decade ago, we've never seen an operating system from Apple this early, you

01:00:14   you know, with so much work to do.

01:00:16   - That's true.

01:00:17   - That said, I will say, I still don't have it

01:00:22   on my main iPhone, 'cause I'm old now,

01:00:25   and I actually want my personal--

01:00:28   - I'm the same way.

01:00:29   - I know that if I was still in my 20s

01:00:32   or even early 30s, I'd have already put it on--

01:00:35   - Well, those folks at WWDC, you know,

01:00:37   we're getting like two hours of battery life.

01:00:38   I'm sorry, I'm at WWDC, I can't have two hours of battery life.

01:00:42   - Right, like in your-- - It's not working for me.

01:00:44   Teens or 20s, as soon as the beta hits, you immediately install it on your phone.

01:00:48   When you're 20s and 30s, you just wait for beta 2, and you figure beta 2 will be good

01:00:52   enough.

01:00:53   Now that I'm 40, I forget it.

01:00:55   I'm waiting.

01:00:57   Let other people figure it out.

01:00:58   But I'm kind of looking forward to when I can do it.

01:01:00   But I have the patience.

01:01:01   Yeah, it's going to be early for me.

01:01:03   I'm normally like, "Okay, they're doing a gold master.

01:01:06   Yeah, okay, I'll put it on."

01:01:08   Yeah, I'll be way before that, but way later than right now.

01:01:12   But have you heard these stories about teenagers? A lot of teenagers are putting it on their

01:01:18   phones? And they're signing up, like they're paying 100 bucks to get their parents to sign

01:01:22   them up as developers so they can get access.

01:01:25   Would not surprise me at all.

01:01:27   That there's a lot of kids who are racing to put this up. And it's certainly – have

01:01:32   you seen this with the App Store reviews? Man, I mean, you know that people do it.

01:01:36   Oh, yeah. There's the problem with Vespert, right? I'm sure you guys are getting nailed

01:01:41   about it. It's like, "Eh." We're pretty lucky in that Twitter looks great, works great.

01:01:52   By sheer dumb luck, we're pretty good there.

01:01:58   Yeah, it's an actual bug in the OS. I mean, this is probably an NDA. I don't know. But

01:02:03   it doesn't matter. But anyway, there is a bug in iOS 7 where you can't, because of what

01:02:08   doing with bold text for headlines. You can't put a return in a note when you're running

01:02:13   Vesper on iOS 7. And it just surprises me how many. And they're actually, they're not

01:02:18   jerks. They're actually very, very nice about it. But there's a surprise to me how many

01:02:24   people are complaining in the app store reviews about it. And they're not in great, you know,

01:02:29   and they're like, I bet it's an iOS 7. I know, you know, they're almost like self-aware that

01:02:32   they, you know. But it just surprises me how many people there are. And they're clearly

01:02:36   not developers, because if they were developers, they'd know. Right? Like, no developer, no

01:02:41   fellow developer is going to leave an App Store review about your app running on a two-week-old

01:02:46   beta OS. Now, if they know you or, you know, or if they're just nice, they might email

01:02:52   you just in case you're not aware of it or something like that, I mean, which is the

01:02:56   right thing to do, but you don't put a public review of the app running on 7. But it's just

01:03:00   a lot of people are jumping on it.

01:03:02   Let me give you a number here for Twitter Thick 5.

01:03:07   This is just like the week after iOS 7 was released.

01:03:11   We saw 15% of our users from iOS 7.

01:03:14   Wow, that's crazy.

01:03:16   One five percent, yes.

01:03:20   That's really crazy.

01:03:21   And that's like, okay, yeah sure a lot of them are probably developers.

01:03:25   In fact, I'm guessing that you have more tech-oriented audience than we've asked for, but still,

01:03:35   that's not like a 1 or 2%.

01:03:41   That's more than iOS 5.

01:03:45   It's more than iOS 6.0.

01:03:47   It's not as bad.

01:03:49   Obviously 6.1 is the highest number we see.

01:03:57   It would not surprise me to hear that the teenagers are getting this stuff because,

01:04:05   again, going back to the color palette, it's hip.

01:04:10   It's something radically different.

01:04:13   "Hey, look what's on my phone.

01:04:15   I'm cool.

01:04:16   Look at this.

01:04:18   So

01:04:21   Yeah

01:04:23   Which I I'm not real happy with the notion of non developers getting into developer program

01:04:30   It's

01:04:35   It's a developer program for a reason yeah, I mean we need to update our apps there's a lot of work to do

01:04:42   having people that are you know Joe random install iOS 7 just

01:04:46   For whatever reason I'm looking at my interaction. I'm looking at my analytics for daring fireball and

01:04:52   10.3% of iOS traffic over the last week is iOS 7

01:05:00   which is

01:05:02   Unbelievable and I actually I can't compare it

01:05:06   I don't know what they what it was like a year ago with six, but I know it wasn't 10%

01:05:10   Yeah, well you know you talked earlier about that the fact that Apple's giving us this early access. It's

01:05:16   There's a reason for that and there are a lot of changes that

01:05:21   That are going to be required for everybody's app

01:05:24   Not just in compatibility right there. Yes, obviously the things like you know the text input investor that the compatibility kind of thing

01:05:32   a

01:05:34   bigger issue and people are probably

01:05:36   Gonna learn this the hard way is the

01:05:40   working towards that content-centric design.

01:05:43   - Yep.

01:05:44   - I mean, it literally took us, for Twitter to five,

01:05:47   it took us almost, well, a little bit more than a year

01:05:50   to refine that UI, to just get as much as we could

01:05:56   out of it, and it's a hard process to get rid of stuff.

01:05:59   - I--

01:06:01   - You guys have the same problem with Desper.

01:06:03   - Yeah, definitely.

01:06:04   - Being a part of the data, it's like, okay,

01:06:05   how do we make this clean but still provide functionality and obviousness

01:06:13   because that's the thing that that's where you and I are probably in agreement

01:06:16   on the problems of iowa7 if there's some things that are just not obvious like

01:06:20   the search for apps that I mentioned just a minute ago right that is not

01:06:25   obvious in the old design and once they introduced that spotlight page there was

01:06:31   the extra dot underneath that told you there's something more to the left right

01:06:36   it was you know I always thought of it as screen zero you know that the first

01:06:41   home screen is screen one but there's also a screen zero so we're not going to

01:06:45   start at zero we're gonna start you at one and you can go to the right for

01:06:48   additional apps but you can go to the left and there's that little dot

01:06:51   underneath which I think means so much because it just somehow before you poke

01:06:57   around it shows you there's something over there. Yeah, and there are a lot of people who don't

01:07:03   organize their app by folders or by screens or anything. My wife just, she needs an app,

01:07:10   she just swipes that thing to the left, types in the first few letters, there it is, tap,

01:07:15   she's done. And in honesty, it's probably a faster way to do it than thumbing through the screen and

01:07:24   find what you want, you know, opening the folder and tapping.

01:07:26   Well, I think that the new design with search at the top is the right way to go because

01:07:31   it does two things. Number one, in most other apps, like in all table views, the search

01:07:38   is at the top and you have to pull down to get it. And the other thing is you can now

01:07:42   get to search from any screen. You don't have to go back to the first screen and then go.

01:07:48   So you can always just pull down.

01:07:50   It's just that the whole UI has much less of a, you need to be on a certain screen to

01:07:55   do certain things.

01:07:56   Right?

01:07:57   You can do anything from anywhere, which I think is a really good change.

01:08:00   Again, it's just more a matter of the, how do you make that more obvious?

01:08:06   And I'm sure there are people at Apple thinking about this.

01:08:08   I'm sure that's one of the things that, you know, it's like the slide to unlock with an

01:08:13   arrow underneath it.

01:08:15   You know, I heard an Apple engineer go, "Huh."

01:08:19   never thought about that right right because it's just them using it they

01:08:23   know how it works right they never had anybody who didn't know how it worked

01:08:27   use it same thing with the search it's just I think the things like some of the

01:08:34   buttons not being obviously buttons it's gonna be a problem that's a big one for

01:08:38   me I think and I don't know what we're going to do with Vesper because I am so

01:08:43   in disagreement with them that I'm torn as to whether we should follow their

01:08:49   lead even if we disagree because it'll be the right thing to do or stick to our guns

01:08:53   and draw outlines on the buttons.

01:08:56   Yeah.

01:08:57   And I think that, again, the limited amount of feedback that they have on that initial

01:09:05   release painted their decision.

01:09:07   There are a lot of kids that don't know how to read that use iOS devices.

01:09:14   And the shape of those buttons are key, right?

01:09:16   can't read EDIT or D-O-N-E but you know they know that it's okay the done button is blue

01:09:23   the buttons a different color there there are you know just think about the slide to

01:09:29   unlock the old slide to unlock yeah it was a button in a in a channel right and it literally

01:09:36   has an arrow on the button the button has an arrow on it and so that looks like it looks

01:09:42   like a thing that slides in this channel. And if you do that, then it unlocks the phone.

01:09:52   Tim Cynova Again, it's really hard to come up with

01:09:55   simplicity, right? Because sometimes you take away too much. Sometimes you don't hit it on the first

01:10:01   go. I mean, I think that there are going to be some things that we see in the fall that are

01:10:05   still unresolved issues. Apple hasn't figured out a really good way to do it, so they haven't done

01:10:11   It's like copy and paste right they couldn't figure out how to do it real well

01:10:15   So we're just not going to do it well wait

01:10:17   I'm curious to see what the betas look like this coming month because this will be the these will be the ones where they might

01:10:24   Be able to make some bigger changes before they start tightening things down for GM

01:10:28   but with the feedback from the

01:10:32   Having millions of people having seen it as opposed to just a few dozen

01:10:37   Right and you know like your example is perfect, and you know how this is how design works because everything is iterative is

01:10:44   So they shipped the first beta with this thing that says slide to unlock

01:10:49   Right on top of an arrow or a little chevron that points up which everybody thinks means you slide

01:10:57   Oh now you slide up to unlock and instead when you do that you get

01:11:02   Control Center yeah, and now you're back to hmm. I don't know what to do

01:11:06   I'll bet the way that they got here is they started with what if we make slide to unlock?

01:11:12   Just we'll take the button out and just say slide to unlock there and you'll slide the same way and every you know

01:11:20   They had that and it worked and they thought well that we don't need that button anymore

01:11:23   We'll just still slide left to unlock and it has it has to shine on the pack right?

01:11:28   That's enough of a right then later on when they were talking, you know

01:11:32   they came up with the control center and they're like now should we do control

01:11:35   centered system wide or should we put it on the lock screen too and they're like

01:11:40   hmm I think we could get away with putting this on the lock screen let's

01:11:43   put it on the lock screen you put on the lock screen how are we gonna tell people

01:11:46   that it's there I know we'll put a chevron underneath the slide to unlock

01:11:50   yeah but now and so you they already knew the new slide to unlock and then

01:11:58   they add the chevron so they never really it never I don't think it

01:12:00   occurred to them that for people who see the two together for the first time, it looks

01:12:05   like the chevron is the indicator for the slide to unlock.

01:12:10   Yeah, the first impressions with something new is the most important feedback any designer

01:12:18   or developer can get.

01:12:20   I have never been involved with a project that didn't have something like that when

01:12:24   it reaches – and that's why having good beta testers is so important for apps, because

01:12:28   Because they're the ones who are going to tell you stuff like that.

01:12:31   Yeah.

01:12:32   And my first feedback for Vesper on the beta test was just total stream of consciousness.

01:12:38   Yeah, it was brilliant.

01:12:39   It was really, really simple stuff.

01:12:42   Because you don't get that stream of consciousness, right?

01:12:45   It's already a part of your consciousness, right?

01:12:47   You understand how it works in detail and as a whole.

01:12:52   Whereas the person who's coming at it for the first time, they don't even understand

01:12:57   how it works as a whole, much less the details.

01:13:01   Right.

01:13:02   And then, so.

01:13:03   And it's easy to have convinced yourselves in development privately that something makes

01:13:08   sense and then when somebody sees it for the first time, their honest opinion, "Hey, you

01:13:13   know what?

01:13:14   That doesn't make any sense to me," is invaluable.

01:13:16   Right.

01:13:17   Let me do the third sponsor and then there's one more thing I want to talk about.

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01:13:39   Is there anything that's not sponsored by Squarespace?

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01:13:44   I think it might actually be part of some of the FCC regulations now that have your

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01:15:43   It's nice to hear responsive design be a selling point. Both the last two sponsors

01:15:52   have called that out. That's where I hope iOS 7 starts to hit. We lose some of this

01:16:01   bullshit Chrome and start really thinking about how to make things responsive.

01:16:07   Yeah, and I without breaking NDA's, you know, but I think it was public

01:16:13   I don't know some of it was but there's a lot a big push and I know Marco was talking about it on the

01:16:18   The accidental tech podcasts this week

01:16:21   It's a we can blame him. Yeah that

01:16:25   But auto they're pushing the auto layout stuff in iOS and so responsive design is not necessarily just about

01:16:34   websites, it's, you know, it's for apps too. And, you know, the iPhone four, I'm sorry,

01:16:40   not the iPhone for the iPhone fives four inch screen is the first time that that really came

01:16:46   into case where now the screen size is different between different iPhones, not just the pixel

01:16:51   resolution. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see devices in the near future from Apple

01:16:58   that have different screen dimensions than the ones that are out now because it seems like that's

01:17:02   the push in the app design is to have an app that can adjust to different screen dimensions

01:17:11   and look perfect on all of them.

01:17:14   Yeah.

01:17:15   It's going hand in hand with the notion of there being a bigger iPhone, something between

01:17:21   the iPhone 5 and the iPad mini.

01:17:26   Or smaller, honestly.

01:17:28   I wouldn't discount that.

01:17:30   Yeah, that's another case.

01:17:31   Everybody thinks, well, if they go different sizes, it's got to be this to have an iPhone

01:17:39   in the high-end, big ass phone market, four and a half to five inch screens or something

01:17:45   like that.

01:17:46   I wouldn't be surprised because anybody who says I want a big screen phone is obviously

01:17:52   not going to come out of the store with an iPhone.

01:17:55   So there's some market demand there.

01:17:56   Some number of people who might otherwise have bought an iPhone who aren't because they

01:18:00   want a big one. But I wouldn't discount smaller either.

01:18:04   Yeah. The need for a bigger iPhone, I don't think it's so much a problem here in the US,

01:18:13   but there are a lot of developing countries where the person's only computer is their

01:18:21   smartphone.

01:18:22   Right. And you want to hit a middle ground.

01:18:25   Exactly, you don't want to carry around an iPad mini in your back pocket.

01:18:32   And the iPhone 5, it's a great screen, but it is small, relatively.

01:18:40   So I think Apple's push right now overseas is really strong, especially in Asia.

01:18:48   So yeah, I think that that's probably something we're going to see.

01:18:52   Even your idea of the, you know, it could go smaller, you know, sort of the iPhone mini,

01:19:00   let's call it.

01:19:03   That's something that they could do as well.

01:19:06   And yeah, it's all about being responsive, right?

01:19:10   And again, when content is the most important thing in your app, in your website, wherever,

01:19:19   And the controls around that should just adapt naturally.

01:19:26   And that, I think, is one of the big things in iOS 7.

01:19:32   And it's going to be a hard thing for people to grasp at first.

01:19:35   And again, back to this, we've had iOS 7 a lot earlier than we normally get it, because

01:19:42   that's a hard thing to do.

01:19:44   But at the same time we don't have that much time before it's gonna be out. Yeah, you know, it's a huge challenge for them

01:19:51   I mean, I again I have no

01:19:53   Inside dope on this stuff at all

01:19:55   I just presume that they're following what has been the last few years

01:19:59   Schedule where a new iPhone is gonna come out in the fall like around September and new iPads

01:20:04   You know either at the same time or a month later in October and the new devices are gonna run iOS 7

01:20:10   I mean, that's just the way they've done it

01:20:13   Yeah, yeah

01:20:15   And at this point could you see them slipping it?

01:20:18   And shipping devices with iOS 6 and do it pushing iOS 7 later

01:20:23   I don't I I mean in theory they could do it and if it really seemed like like

01:20:28   You know we either don't have new devices out in time for the holidays

01:20:33   Yeah, that's that's a given. They will not right right

01:20:38   There have to be new devices for the holidays.

01:20:42   And if they had to ship them with iOS 6, I guess they could.

01:20:44   But it would be a bitter pill to swallow, I think, marketing-wise.

01:20:49   Because look, just go to Apple.com right now.

01:20:51   What are they pushing on that?

01:20:52   When you go to the homepage at Apple.com, they're pushing iOS 7.

01:20:55   So the fact that they're already pushing it as something for consumers to be aware of

01:21:00   would make it really, really, I don't know.

01:21:04   I honestly think that they probably would ship with

01:21:08   More bugs than they want. I was gonna say that they would err on the side of being unfinished

01:21:14   Yeah, the side of being perfect, right?

01:21:17   So I you know, I think that engineering wise this is probably one of the the toughest two-month stretches

01:21:24   And apples ever going to go through because they don't want to do they're working their asses off

01:21:30   I don't know. I haven't talked to anybody that did

01:21:33   They're not working their asses off on groups. No, I saw a couple people at WWDC and they're they're

01:21:40   Tired, I mean it's a slog. Yeah. Yeah, really and there's no no break, you know, you know

01:21:46   Like you think like a big, you know in some sense, you know, like for normal developers, you know

01:21:51   Like when you guys ship Twitter if ik5 or us when we ship Vesper 1.0

01:21:55   it was you know, it's this huge relief afterwards and we could take a week off and just sort of

01:22:01   just sort of deal with the 1.0, you know, marketing and feedback and stuff like that,

01:22:08   but sort of take this break from the engineering slog of shipping a 1.0. Whereas them, Apple

01:22:15   revealing iOS 7, I don't think meant anything to the engineers working on it.

01:22:19   They were, you know, that was a…

01:22:20   They were, universally they were happy to finally be able to show the fruits of their

01:22:27   Everyone that I talked to was just like, "My God, I'm so glad that people can see it now."

01:22:34   They were happy with the response, too.

01:22:38   I think there were a lot of people criticizing it, but I think there were a lot more people that were going,

01:22:43   "Wow, this is really a pretty amazing piece of work here."

01:22:48   Especially in a developer audience, you realize how much work went into things, like the new springboard.

01:22:54   Right?

01:22:55   Stuff like a parallax effect, stuff like the new app switch, or stuff like blurring stuff

01:23:03   at 60 frames a second.

01:23:06   It's very...

01:23:08   You can look at some of the design issues that are not quite right and above you, but

01:23:15   you look at the underlying engineering work and you go, "Holy crap, this is really good."

01:23:22   So I have one more topic I want to talk to.

01:23:24   I know the show's gone a little long, but I think that this is maybe the most overlooked

01:23:29   thing that was announced at WWDC by far, because I think it's a huge deal going forward.

01:23:37   But I think it got very little attention at the time, because so much more was announced.

01:23:41   And that's the addition of tagging in Mac OS X Mavericks to the Finder and to file names.

01:23:49   And the reason I think, you know, everybody, you know, the thing that was overlooked, and

01:23:53   I almost think Apple underplayed it, is this is the way around iCloud sandboxing.

01:24:03   That you know, that in it, you know, the whole problem with sandboxing documents in iCloud

01:24:08   is that you, if you, with TextEdit, you make a new document and save it to iCloud.

01:24:14   No other app can see that document except TextEdit because it's in TextEdit's sandbox.

01:24:23   But if you tag it and going forward in Mavericks, if you tag a file, make a project name, right?

01:24:32   Like I say, I have a project for the talk show.

01:24:36   I tag an item from TextEdit, the talk show, and I tag a file from another app with the

01:24:45   same tag, then in the finder I can go to that tag and they're all there in one place.

01:24:51   Huh.

01:24:52   Can you open that file that you tagged like the TextEdit in BDF, let's say?

01:25:00   Yeah, I think so.

01:25:03   You just, you know...

01:25:04   If you can, that's a huge thing.

01:25:08   That's a really...

01:25:10   Yeah, it solves that problem of...

01:25:14   Let's call them data silos, right?

01:25:17   It's just like, you just got this thing, okay, this is nothing but numbers documents.

01:25:21   This is nothing but text edit documents.

01:25:25   Which kind of, yeah, that kind of bugs me.

01:25:29   Hmm I

01:25:31   Don't yeah, I'm playing around with that. But did I I don't I'm not a tagger. I don't tag stuff. I

01:25:37   Much more I mean it probably because I'm a developer and I think things

01:25:43   I'd like to order things and folders and keep things organized that way. It's just kind of very engineering thing to do

01:25:52   But yeah

01:25:57   There are a lot of people

01:25:59   that

01:26:00   They don't you know they just want to save something right they don't care. They're really nice. Okay. Yeah, like my dad

01:26:07   It's got his documents folder. It's good to guess that it's got thousands of things in it right

01:26:11   And he has to go find something in his documents. He's just like okay. Well. I think it's this no

01:26:17   What you know it's like a year ago that I did this and he you know sort by date, and he scrolls down

01:26:22   So I got to there it is

01:26:25   But that that kind of person really it's going to be a

01:26:29   Great feature. I think it's almost more like a mid mid-level user feature

01:26:35   Right where like the the person who doesn't do any kind of organization can still do no organization at all

01:26:42   Just give it a name and put it in your eye cloud. Yeah

01:26:45   Well, it's the which roles are both people right? Yeah, but I think though that it's you know and

01:26:54   it and it the other thing that it does is

01:26:56   It's

01:27:00   Flat right you can't there's no hierarchy to tags

01:27:03   you can tag an item with two tags and it'll show up in both of those tag collections, but

01:27:08   Which I think is cool

01:27:11   and I think I think people will take to that so that you don't have to decide that if you know like if you have a

01:27:18   You know a folder with all of your receipts

01:27:23   and you have a folder for a specific project and now you've got this document that is a receipt

01:27:29   but it's related to this project where should you put it you don't have to decide you can use both

01:27:34   of it with tags you can use both of those tags and it's in both those places there's no in neither

01:27:40   one is it real and there's an alias yeah it also help it also helps with filing later scenario

01:27:46   right you see something in Safari you download it yes it's like you okay I'm gonna go tag this

01:27:51   project X and then you know next week you say okay I'm gonna pull all the

01:27:56   project X stuff and put it into a folder so that I can share it with my colleague

01:28:01   right but I think it's I think it's a huge deal and I think it's their

01:28:06   intention going for now they didn't mention there's no mention of tags in

01:28:10   iCloud for iOS 7 it's just a Mac OS 10 Mavericks thing right now but I can't

01:28:17   help but think though that going forward this is what they're going to do for iCloud sharing

01:28:22   and iOS too where you don't have shared folders you would just have these iCloud tags that you

01:28:30   can use to access documents from one app to another. That's another thing that's kind of

01:28:36   one of the unheralded features of WWDC is that you know frameworks across Mac and iOS have

01:28:44   never been at such parity, right?

01:28:47   You've got a map framework on iOS,

01:28:51   you've got it on the Mac, Game Center,

01:28:54   and all of these frameworks.

01:28:57   In fact, it's really interesting that Apple's strategy

01:29:00   is to have the stuff that's cross-platform on the frameworks.

01:29:05   The UI and the stuff that sits on top of that is not.

01:29:08   Contrary to what Microsoft is trying to do

01:29:10   where you're gonna have one UI

01:29:12   on all these different devices and all of it.

01:29:15   - But two totally different operating systems.

01:29:17   - Right.

01:29:18   - Right.

01:29:19   - So, what?

01:29:20   - Yeah, no, that's--

01:29:20   - I think Apple's approach is actually pretty awesome.

01:29:23   And it wasn't clear for a while

01:29:25   that that was where they were heading.

01:29:28   You know, game center's on iOS, but it's not on the Mac.

01:29:32   Maps, okay, it's great on iOS,

01:29:34   but, eh, kind of sucks not having it on the Mac.

01:29:37   And, you know, or on the Mac.

01:29:39   and their open source implementations of those frameworks that mostly worked but weren't

01:29:47   quite as good. I think it's a great strategy, actually.

01:29:53   Yeah, and without pinning any sort of blame on individuals – cough, cough, Scott Forstall

01:30:00   – which I don't even know if it's true or not, so I'm not even joking. But there

01:30:05   There is absolutely, you know, when they talk about this increased collaboration within

01:30:08   the company, it was evident at WWDC.

01:30:11   It really was.

01:30:12   And the sessions, you know, like you said, there was a lot less, okay, if you're an iOS

01:30:17   developer, go to this session.

01:30:19   If you're a Mac OS developer, go to this session.

01:30:21   It was really a strong sense of this is how you do blank as an Apple OS developer.

01:30:29   You know, when you go to the text kit sessions, it was, you know, applicable to Mac apps and

01:30:34   iOS apps.

01:30:35   Right.

01:30:36   Core data, same thing.

01:30:37   They've mentioned a little bit of, okay, there's this optimization on iOS 7, but it's like

01:30:41   at the end of the talk, you know, two or three minutes, and it's like, no, okay, the rest

01:30:46   of it is awesome.

01:30:47   Mapping.

01:30:48   Yeah, another great example is mapping, you know, where…

01:30:50   And it is funny.

01:30:51   It's funny how some things come to iOS first and some things come to the Mac first, you

01:30:55   know, where maps obviously came to iOS first, but now with Mavericks is coming to the Mac.

01:31:01   How did third-party apps integrate with the system maps?

01:31:05   It's very, very similar.

01:31:07   The differences are very specific to the differences between macOS and iOS, but in general, this

01:31:13   is how you integrate with Apple Maps, which I think is really good for the company.

01:31:18   And I think as a Mac user, I think everybody should—I don't think anybody should be—I

01:31:24   think it should delay a lot of concerns about the future of the Mac and their interest in

01:31:28   it.

01:31:29   Oh, this is by far the best version of Mac OS X that we've ever had.

01:31:36   For me, the big thing is the multiple screen support.

01:31:41   It's got some rough edges, it's a beta, I'm fine, but it's just such a better way to work.

01:31:49   Because basically every Mac that I've got, other than my laptop, has got more than one screen on it.

01:31:56   It was really a pain to use full screen apps in that kind of setup.

01:32:04   Yeah, and I think it's one of those things where because Mac OS and even Mac OS X specifically

01:32:12   was never really designed at the beginning with full screen apps in mind, that the full

01:32:18   screen apps on multiple screens were just so full of edge conditions, you know, just

01:32:23   weirdness.

01:32:24   weirdness like this just doesn't make sense according to the conceptual rules of Mac OS

01:32:30   10 and it what you want as a result is you want it to feel easy and obvious like oh yeah

01:32:37   of course this is how if you have two displays hooked up and when you put an app into full

01:32:41   screen mode of course this is how it would work but to actually get there I think it

01:32:45   required tons and tons of work and it's great to see oh yeah yeah it's it's there's it's

01:32:51   not easy path and it's you know it's a typical most people don't run multiple

01:32:56   displays you know yeah but those who do it's like fun my first time my wife ran

01:33:00   multiple displays you know she got this new retina MacBook Pro right and it's

01:33:03   got a hooked up to a then both displays and she's like on the second display

01:33:09   it's like why don't I have a menu bar up here yeah well you gotta go back to

01:33:15   that's why and it's like there's no good answer to that right it's like oh because

01:33:21   use it's fun to move your mouse around

01:33:25   yeah good work hats off to everybody at Apple who worked on the multiple screen

01:33:29   support and average well that's that's that's the exciting thing about the

01:33:33   WBC is that there was both OS is kicked ass yeah I mean they've just really they

01:33:40   they knocked both of them out of the park what can you say so it's pretty

01:33:47   exciting time to be a developer. All right Craig Hockenberry, thank you for being on

01:33:53   the show. It's always my pleasure John. What do you want to tell people? Let's go tell

01:33:57   people to check out Twitterrific5. Yeah. It's a good preview of what you're going to see

01:34:05   on iOS 7 if you're not one of those teenagers who's already installed it. I got to tell

01:34:10   you, I mean it sincerely, I'm not just saying it because you're my friend and you're on

01:34:14   show this week it's it's one of the very few apps that I have on my my iowa 7

01:34:19   device that feels like it's right at home or close to being right at home

01:34:22   already yeah yeah well you know I'm gonna say the same thing about Vesper

01:34:26   right as the Vesper feels right to outlines on buttons forever yeah that

01:34:33   I bet yeah it's gonna be fun to see how that this all plays out it will and

01:34:43   And that's the thing I'm confident of.

01:34:45   It will play out and it'll be fun to watch.

01:34:48   God, just let's pray that there's no metal

01:34:51   in the future of Iowa.

01:34:52   (laughing)

01:34:53   - No, I don't think so.

01:34:54   I think it's infinitely thin frosted glass

01:34:58   for the near future.

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