The Talk Show

44: Code 47: Live From WWDC 2013


00:00:00   Good evening. This is the talk show live during WWDC 2013.

00:00:09   We're recording on Tuesday, June 11th 2013, the day after the keynote.

00:00:20   We have a nice little audience here. We have about a dozen, two dozen people.

00:00:27   And I want to thank Microsoft for sponsoring this event for Windows Azure.

00:00:41   We have an open bar here.

00:00:42   We have two open bars here because mezzanine is aptly named.

00:00:45   There's a second level up there in both open bars.

00:00:48   You're drinking on Microsoft's dime.

00:00:49   How awesome is that?

00:00:53   Bill Gates picking up the tab for people at WWDC.

00:00:58   We have, it's a little bit, you know, in addition to being live, it's a somewhat differently

00:01:03   structured show than the typical episode of the talk show.

00:01:08   Maybe in so far as that it has some structure.

00:01:12   But we have a bunch of guests, multiple guests, a couple of surprises.

00:01:19   But my first guess is no surprise.

00:01:20   It is, oh I should tell you, I'm Larry Sanders, this is Hank Kingsley.

00:01:25   How's it going Larry?

00:01:28   Are you Hank or Artie?

00:01:30   I'm way more Artie than Hank.

00:01:32   Yeah, you're more Artie than Hank.

00:01:33   Yeah, like drunk kind of curmudgeonly.

00:01:35   This is my friend Guy English.

00:01:39   Thank you.

00:01:40   I love you too Dave.

00:01:44   And this is a Vesper 2.0 on display by the way.

00:01:49   Exactly.

00:01:50   So WWDC keynote, a lot of news, but I think the big one has got to be iOS 7.

00:01:59   Right, yeah, no doubt.

00:02:01   Do you want to skim over the other stuff first or what?

00:02:04   Well yeah, let's skim over it and say why it's not worth talking about.

00:02:09   Yeah, okay, I think that's fair.

00:02:11   What was the order that it went through in the event?

00:02:14   What was the first thing that they announced?

00:02:16   It was racing cars from the future.

00:02:18   Racing cars from the future?

00:02:19   Oh, it was pretty cool.

00:02:20   That was pretty cool.

00:02:21   You know what, that was really cool and it's a little weird because they had so much to

00:02:24   announce.

00:02:25   It was a two hour keynote, it was clearly jam-packed, they kind of raced through some

00:02:29   stuff, but yet they still took five minutes up front for a third party company.

00:02:34   My take was it like...

00:02:35   What was the name of the company anybody remember?

00:02:39   Anki.

00:02:40   Nobody remembers?

00:02:41   I don't know, it's just us.

00:02:43   I got it, Anki.

00:02:45   A-N-K-I.

00:02:46   Yeah, with a funky lettering.

00:02:48   Right.

00:02:49   Right.

00:02:50   And it's-- yeah.

00:02:51   Describe the demo.

00:02:54   So it's AI-controlled robots in the form of cars

00:02:58   race around a track using sensors to sort of navigate

00:03:01   their way around it.

00:03:02   I think it's probably a lot more complicated than it looked.

00:03:05   Like, it almost looked like when you were kidding,

00:03:06   you had one of those trigger-controlled cars that

00:03:08   would race around a track.

00:03:10   The demo ended up looking like that.

00:03:11   But I think what was happening was way more complicated.

00:03:14   Still pretty cool, though, when they put it into spy mode

00:03:16   and it started shooting everything.

00:03:18   Yeah, and it really did seem they were, you know, they had some stats, you know, about how many times per second the sensors are taking measurements, and it was incredible.

00:03:27   It was like 5,000 measurements per second.

00:03:30   But it looked like it, like organically, and they had the one car that was faster than the others, and when it was in passing mode, it wasn't herky-jerky like a remote control car usually.

00:03:41   Right, it looked like actual racing.

00:03:42   It was very organic.

00:03:44   And then when they switched the other cars into a block mode where their goal was to block the faster car from passing them, it really looked organic.

00:03:54   It looked coordinate.

00:03:56   So basically it's a toy at this point, but I think what they said at the end of the presentation is important and I can't remember it.

00:04:03   Well, I remember that just…

00:04:05   No, it's like something about they're an AI and robot company rather than a toy.

00:04:08   Just a bit was that the cars are a demonstration of the technology, not the product.

00:04:12   I mean, they may not even ever actually ship those cars.

00:04:15   I'm not even sure that that was the case.

00:04:16   I think that the cars were just an example.

00:04:19   Yeah, I think so.

00:04:20   But the interesting thing to me was that the demo at first failed.

00:04:23   They had like the demo gods frowned upon them and it was the nightmare.

00:04:27   It's five minutes into not just any WWDC, but like a widely anticipated WWDC.

00:04:33   And they're the only third-party company up there.

00:04:35   And the hero car wouldn't start.

00:04:37   And I thought it was incredible how the CEO, I don't remember his name, but he never seemed bothered.

00:04:42   No, he was a pretty cool comic collector.

00:04:44   He seemed like he was like, "Well, we'll get this."

00:04:46   I thought that was pretty cool.

00:04:48   And then it actually works out better because the audience knows.

00:04:50   And it is kind of a good audience because I feel like it's all developers.

00:04:54   And they know how Murphy's Law works.

00:04:57   Like, it's going to fail the worst possible time.

00:05:00   So there's a huge sympathy that's instantly built up.

00:05:02   And then when it did work, it was like...

00:05:04   Cheers. Like, "Yeah, you saved it."

00:05:06   Right. So they did that. What then, Apple started in with...

00:05:11   Apple started up with the MacBook Airs.

00:05:15   It's good having a crib sheet right in the front.

00:05:17   Right, MacBook Airs, you know, battery life is amazing but we, you know, I'm not going to waste time in this show talking about battery life in MacBook Airs.

00:05:23   No, you know, it's a nice bunk.

00:05:25   It's great. I mean, it's a great deal and I think it's interesting that they reduced the price.

00:05:29   Yeah.

00:05:30   - It didn't go retina, and I think the whole thing

00:05:32   with the retina is that the MacBook Air

00:05:34   is still their cheap, light laptop.

00:05:38   - Right, and I'm not even sure you can get GPUs

00:05:40   that would drive a retina in that form factor

00:05:44   without overheating, I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff.

00:05:46   And 12 hour battery life is nothing to sneeze at,

00:05:48   like it's pretty impressive, right?

00:05:51   - Mac OS X, 10.9, Mavericks.

00:05:54   - I can't get over that name.

00:05:57   (audience laughs)

00:05:58   Well, and it's because it's a singular name, because the name of the place is mavericks

00:06:04   with an "n" or with an "s", but it sounds plural.

00:06:07   So talking about it in the singular is going to sound grammatically awkward.

00:06:11   Yeah, it's just awkward.

00:06:13   Like I told you this yesterday, to me it reminds me of that McCain-Palin thing.

00:06:16   They're just, "Oh, we're mavericks and I just can't get past that."

00:06:22   It also seems trying to be tough when you're...

00:06:25   It's like, "Hmm."

00:06:26   You know what I mean?

00:06:27   could say, "Okay, lions are ferocious," but I mean, I don't know. It just seems like...

00:06:32   Sea lion! Yeah, actually, I would honestly be okay with sea lion. No, seriously, they

00:06:38   picked a goofy-looking sea lion, but I'm pretty sure you can find a cool-looking sea lion.

00:06:44   Like a hipster suit on or something, you know?

00:06:49   And you know, Macalester, interesting stuff in it, but I feel like I can wait and next

00:06:54   Next week we're on a regular talk show, talk about Mac OS X.

00:06:57   Yeah, you know, and after spending a week with it, it's probably a better time to talk

00:07:00   about it anyway.

00:07:01   Honestly, like I said yesterday on the other thing I did, I kind of missed the leather,

00:07:06   like I actually missed some of the screen morphism a bit.

00:07:09   Everything looks flat now.

00:07:10   Like if you look at iCal, it's like, well, you just dragged that out of an interface

00:07:13   builder and made a calendar app, you know?

00:07:16   Everything looks like...

00:07:17   I don't need the stitches.

00:07:19   Maybe if you just took the stitches away, I'd be happy.

00:07:21   I don't know.

00:07:22   I think there's going to be a middle ground.

00:07:23   What we're going to see in progressive releases is them going a little bit back in that direction

00:07:28   in some ways.

00:07:29   But we'll talk about that more.

00:07:30   There's a lot of engineering features in Mavericks that are pretty cool and we can talk about

00:07:34   them next week.

00:07:36   Visually though, it really does seem that all they did was go into the resource folders

00:07:41   for Calendar and a couple of other apps and take out a bunch of resources and let...

00:07:46   Yeah, like you said...

00:07:47   I really feel like I could recreate that calendar on 10.8 by just deleting one PNG.

00:07:52   Right.

00:07:53   (audience laughing)

00:07:54   Like they just deleted a bunch of skeuomorphic textures

00:07:57   and said it was done.

00:07:58   And we're like, we're too busy with iOS 7.

00:08:01   - Yeah.

00:08:03   - The Mac Pro, I guess that's definitely worth talking about.

00:08:06   I mean, but again--

00:08:07   - I think it's super interesting.

00:08:08   - Yeah.

00:08:09   - I favor the design direction.

00:08:13   - Yeah.

00:08:14   - I still haven't heard what Marco and the boy said about it.

00:08:17   - Thumbs up or thumbs down for Marco.

00:08:19   - Somebody's gonna throw something at me,

00:08:20   but be like, we don't know yet.

00:08:21   - Marco says we don't know yet.

00:08:22   Alright, he gave a shaky thumbs up. I heard John Siracusa does not like it.

00:08:26   I don't know. Is that true? Is John here?

00:08:30   I don't know. I heard he doesn't like it. But I'm not... See, I think that anybody

00:08:34   who had any interest in the Mac Pro at all should just be

00:08:38   relieved and delighted that they at least have a new Mac Pro.

00:08:42   I really do! And, you know, whether you still wanted him to have

00:08:46   the big thing... I think the counter-argument against the design direction are going

00:08:50   is I'm a pro, I don't care how big the case is,

00:08:54   I just want to be able to throw video cards in

00:08:56   and get all the storage inside,

00:08:58   and I don't want a stack of Thunderbolt drives

00:09:01   in my desk over there.

00:09:02   I say just be happy that they haven't abandoned the Mac Pro.

00:09:06   You know, or, you know, and Tim Cook a year ago

00:09:09   had said when there was a lot of,

00:09:11   when it kind of boiled up,

00:09:12   that where the hell is the new Mac Pro?

00:09:14   And Tim Cook, was it an email or something?

00:09:16   Like Tim Cook answered a customer email

00:09:17   and just said, we're gonna have something interesting

00:09:19   for you next year. Just be glad that it wasn't a something interesting for you

00:09:23   that was like the 2007 "hey you can make apps for the iPhone, they're web pages"

00:09:29   So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

00:09:29   Yeah, so I yeah, yeah, I

00:09:32   Scoot solution. I agree with you and I actually

00:09:36   Thinking about it now. I

00:09:40   Think if they had just put that equipment inside the old case and done like a very standard

00:09:45   Next-gen, you know just an upgrade of everything. I think that would have

00:09:49   Been less interesting and more likely to see the end of the back for all right to be investing in this whole new architecture

00:09:56   that's built around, you know. And maybe it's, you know, you're missing a lot of

00:10:00   stuff from the old world, but they're really going for something new and

00:10:03   something that with a lot of compute power and very very fast. Right, and I

00:10:06   think that the new look of it, I mean it doesn't look like anything Apple's ever

00:10:10   done. I mean there's a serious sort of Death Star look to it. Closest

00:10:14   thing I can think of is some like SGI machines from the 90s. Right, it's a very,

00:10:18   you know, super serious look and it just has a polished appearance that doesn't

00:10:23   look anything like something.

00:10:25   >> Does it have a logo on it?

00:10:27   >> It has an Apple logo but it's on the back.

00:10:29   It's above all the ports.

00:10:31   >> Right.

00:10:33   >> And I talked to somebody there and they said they honestly designed it such that they

00:10:39   assumed that the ports will face away from you like if you have it on your desk but they

00:10:42   made it so that if you wanted to and you're plugging stuff in all the time you would feel

00:10:46   that it looks right turned the other way with the ports facing you.

00:10:50   that that's how good the back with the ports is supposed to look.

00:10:53   You shouldn't feel like it's backwards if you face it that way.

00:10:56   I think it's a nice touch. Remember when we were all excited about when the keyboard

00:11:00   lit up? I think it's one of those cool little touches.

00:11:04   Not the keyboard, you mean the port indicators.

00:11:08   Well, I'm saying back in the day, when they first light up, keyboards lit up.

00:11:12   We're like, "Holy Christ, this is technology from the future." And it's just like a light

00:11:16   underneath the thing. It's not a big deal. But this I feel the same way with this.

00:11:20   I'm like, you know, they turn it around, it's like motion sensor with the light on

00:11:23   it? That's like, I have that in my driveway. But this is awesome, you know,

00:11:28   like this is killer. But you know, I think that gets us to iOS 7. Yeah,

00:11:38   right, man, no big deal. And so I think one of the most interesting things, and I

00:11:44   know that there was a lot of speculation. I like to talk about the way they structure

00:11:48   the keynotes. I think it's always so interesting in the order they do things.

00:11:52   Who gets to say what? And there was obviously a lot of

00:11:56   speculation about

00:12:00   iOS 7 and everybody knows it's now led by Johnny Ive. And then the question

00:12:04   was, is Johnny Ive going to take the stage to talk about it?

00:12:08   And I didn't think so. I mean, they never come out and say it, but it just seems pretty clear.

00:12:12   I mean, if he wanted to, he could.

00:12:13   But I think it's pretty clear, he does not like public speaking.

00:12:16   He's a bit camera shy.

00:12:17   Yeah, well--

00:12:18   Well, he's not camera shy.

00:12:19   I take that back.

00:12:19   Yeah, I mean, he just--

00:12:21   He's the opposite.

00:12:22   Right.

00:12:23   He's people shy.

00:12:23   Right.

00:12:24   But you hear about that, you know,

00:12:28   stories about certain actors who are very successful

00:12:31   and comfortable in front of a camera on TV or movies

00:12:35   or something like that, but can't do like a live audience

00:12:38   thing.

00:12:39   Some people are like that.

00:12:41   I get the feeling that he is.

00:12:44   But I feel like what they wanted to do is they still wanted him to introduce it.

00:12:47   And so they did the video first.

00:12:50   Which I don't think they've ever done before.

00:12:52   Usually it's somebody on stage who introduces the thing, whether it's hardware or whether

00:12:57   it's software.

00:12:58   And then it's, "And we've made a video for you.

00:13:00   Would you like to see it?"

00:13:01   Yeah, the conclusion.

00:13:02   Yeah, you know, state the case, show the details.

00:13:05   The conclusion is the video.

00:13:06   And this was like right up front and we're going to frame it.

00:13:09   Although they did start the event.

00:13:10   You know what, they didn't start with the racing cars.

00:13:12   They started with that awesome video.

00:13:13   Right, they started with this--

00:13:16   Which I think they're now pushing this design

00:13:19   by Apple and California.

00:13:20   And I think that's a big thing going forward.

00:13:22   Yeah, this really nice little two or three minute--

00:13:27   I don't know.

00:13:28   Everything feels longer, but maybe like a minute.

00:13:30   90 seconds coming through.

00:13:31   Yeah, it was a 90 second thing.

00:13:34   Just sort of setting a tone.

00:13:36   And a lot of times at WWDC, they open with a video,

00:13:40   but it's a joke.

00:13:41   You know, like a couple years ago it would be John Hodgman.

00:13:43   There was a great one where John Hodgman came out in a video

00:13:45   and said, I'm Steve Jobs.

00:13:48   The show's over.

00:13:50   Everybody can go home now.

00:13:51   Stop making--

00:13:51   - Shut it down.

00:13:52   - Right.

00:13:52   Stop making apps and stuff like that.

00:13:54   It was very funny.

00:13:55   They often start out with jokes, though.

00:13:57   And this one was not a joke.

00:13:58   It's this very sort of-- and it's all to me,

00:14:01   clearly, of a piece with the recent ad campaign that's

00:14:05   on television.

00:14:06   You know, the photos every day.

00:14:08   - Setting a new human tone? - Yeah, it's this human tone where

00:14:12   people are using the phone but the phone is just part of the scene.

00:14:16   Although the video was no people and it was just motion graphics

00:14:19   and it was kind of just sort of...

00:14:21   - Good motion graphics too. - But I thought...

00:14:23   - Very simple, yeah. - I thought it effectively set the tone of

00:14:26   this event is a serious one and we've got some serious shit to announce.

00:14:29   Yeah, and again I think that California thing is important because

00:14:33   you know, it's not a coincidence that they changed the name from Big Cats to

00:14:38   places in California.

00:14:40   Designed by Apple in California, looks like it's

00:14:41   going to be a big thing.

00:14:42   The Mac Pro is designed by California, assembled in the

00:14:45   USA.

00:14:46   Yeah, so now we now know the answer to the Tim Cook on NBC

00:14:51   last year when he said, we're going to start producing one of

00:14:54   our Macintosh products in the United States.

00:14:56   It's the new Mac Pro.

00:14:57   I think it's not a nationalism, but it's a

00:14:59   pride of place that I think they're trying to go for.

00:15:02   Yeah, and I also think that it's not a coincidence that

00:15:05   it's the highest end model where whatever the extra margin costs might be of assembling

00:15:10   in the US are eaten by that particular market segment.

00:15:14   Right, because if it costs 15 more dollars per unit to assemble in the US versus assemble

00:15:22   in China, it makes a bigger difference if it's a $3,000 workstation where the $15 is

00:15:28   a very small percentage as opposed to a $250 iPad.

00:15:32   iPad. Right. Yeah, I'm sure if you talk to video editors they're super excited about

00:15:37   the Mac Pro and they don't care how much it costs. Right. Does anybody here not care what

00:15:42   a Mac Pro costs? There's actually some hands. Of course Marco's made a boat out of Mac Pros

00:15:51   actually. Wait a second, I'm getting it. Somebody backstage just said Marco sold the talk show?

00:16:00   show? We're supposed to stop? Wait, no.

00:16:05   >> You sold it to Microsoft. >> That happens in about 15 minutes.

00:16:18   >> We went off the rails there, man. This is the bit that gets you out of that when

00:16:22   you actually do this live. >> So, yeah, I do think, though, that they

00:16:27   structured the event with three videos.

00:16:28   An opening video, then the one in the middle with Johnny Ive

00:16:32   personally introducing and narrating the

00:16:35   iOS 7 introduction.

00:16:36   And the first you got to see it is in this video.

00:16:40   I mean, that video was like, holy shit.

00:16:41   I mean, that was like a holy fucking shit video.

00:16:45   And then Craig Federighi demoed it like the way they

00:16:48   usually do first.

00:16:49   He's great, by the way.

00:16:50   He's so much better than he used to be.

00:16:51   And then Tim Cook came back for his wrap up and at the end

00:16:54   had another video, which actually they are going to use

00:16:56   as a commercial.

00:16:57   - Yeah, that's an ad.

00:16:58   - To emphasize this sort of design by Apple in California.

00:17:02   I'm not the only one who's noticed it.

00:17:03   Ben Thompson, I linked to his thing today.

00:17:06   It evokes the old Think Different campaign from the 90s

00:17:09   where it feels almost more like,

00:17:11   yeah, they're putting it on TV for everybody to see,

00:17:14   but it's almost like a centering for Apple's own employees.

00:17:18   Like this is what we stand for.

00:17:20   - It's a philosophical message

00:17:21   rather than a product message.

00:17:23   - Right, and I think it really is largely about

00:17:25   sort of, you know, part of the message explicitly is we spend an enormous amount of time on

00:17:31   a very few things.

00:17:34   And it's this reverse of, you know, if anything we're doubling down on doing fewer things

00:17:40   and let our competition do the spaghetti up against the wall, five inch phones, .8 inch

00:17:49   phones, 4.5 inch phones, six inch phones.

00:17:52   I mean if you even look at Samsung, like refrigerators and tires and whatever the hell they are making

00:17:57   up.

00:17:58   Right.

00:17:59   I don't think they make tires.

00:18:00   But yeah, it's a very like, we work very hard and in very directed fashion very carefully

00:18:05   to produce this thing that's a labor of love and we do it in California and we want to

00:18:09   share it with you.

00:18:11   Right.

00:18:13   So I had heard, the two words that I had heard beforehand and other people had heard it too,

00:18:17   I said last week on the show with Moltz, polarizing, and the other way to put it, it's the same

00:18:23   word, divisive.

00:18:26   You know, the design.

00:18:27   And clearly...

00:18:28   Do you want to go deep on the differences between those two words?

00:18:30   No, it doesn't matter.

00:18:31   24 hours later, I mean, it's clear that it's true.

00:18:35   There's some hate out there for what they've done with iOS 7.

00:18:40   Yeah, I think some of it's merited, some of it's not.

00:18:43   I think some of it you need to play with a device.

00:18:46   Even in screenshots I felt uncomfortable with the direction.

00:18:51   Playing with it, I think it's very visceral and it works really, really well.

00:18:56   >> Yeah.

00:18:57   Audience.

00:18:58   So we've got an audience of developers here.

00:18:59   How many people in the audience have already installed iOS 7?

00:19:02   >> Oh, holy crap.

00:19:04   >> We've got to hear you.

00:19:05   I can't just see you.

00:19:07   >> That's quite a lot.

00:19:10   >> How many of those same people have installed it on their main carry iPhone?

00:19:13   Wow, you guys are bold.

00:19:16   How many people who've done that are glad that they did it?

00:19:21   It's getting smaller.

00:19:24   How many people of that set of people that are glad that have done it have had more than

00:19:28   one drink?

00:19:31   One guy, one guy in the back.

00:19:33   How many people installed it after having too many drinks?

00:19:39   It's getting fewer, but I think there's a trend showing up here.

00:19:43   I have not, have you?

00:19:44   No, I'm not stupid.

00:19:45   Like a dumbass at home, I have a stack of all my old iPhones and I didn't bring any

00:19:49   of them with me.

00:19:50   I had brought an iPad to sacrifice and then they didn't put it on the iPad.

00:19:55   Which was a sign I did not want it anywhere near my phone.

00:19:59   I even wrote this the day before that what to think when they show it.

00:20:03   I even said and I think I got it pretty right is don't think too much on what it looks like

00:20:09   but think about how it works and think about it deeper.

00:20:13   Why are they doing this?

00:20:14   And I feel like most of the criticism is focused on the most superficial of details.

00:20:21   You know, a lot of hate on the icons in particular.

00:20:26   And I feel like there's two ways to go about that.

00:20:27   There's one, which is to look at the exact icons as they are in iOS 7 today and talk

00:20:34   about details of them and say, you know, this Safari icon is not good because of this or

00:20:38   that and you can do that.

00:20:39   And there's merit to a lot of that and I think a couple of the icons probably, you know...

00:20:43   The new Safari one looks pretty... it's like my first gradient circle kind of thing.

00:20:48   But I like the new weather one. I think the weather one's great.

00:20:52   I do like that one.

00:20:54   I don't think the direction is wrong. I think maybe some of the implementation right now has something to be desired.

00:21:02   But some of that stuff is so subjective. It all falls under "there's no accounting for taste."

00:21:09   But I also think in a larger sense though, there is a certain design aesthetic to the way iOS icons have evolved over the years,

00:21:20   and there's a specific sort of vibe that's accepted as a good iOS icon, and that clearly wouldn't work with the overall direction of the new iOS system.

00:21:31   system. Like the icon style has to change. And I feel like some of the knee-jerk criticism

00:21:36   is just you've changed this sort of gelled look to three-dimension icons that, you know,

00:21:44   we've gotten used to for six years and some of people have gotten really, really good

00:21:48   at making. And I think that they're calling foul on changing that at all and I feel like

00:21:53   that's just off base.

00:21:54   Yeah, I think there's no point in holding the aesthetic too dearly. I mean, you have

00:21:57   to progress at some point, something has to change. The fact that this looks drastically

00:22:02   different isn't by itself necessarily problematic. There are problems, but it's the first seed.

00:22:08   There's some issue, like I saw an issue today where that blur background sheet comes up,

00:22:15   and I think it's over the clock, and on the right hand side, the clock face is black,

00:22:19   but you can't see the icon, because the icon's gray and thin, so it doesn't show up against

00:22:24   the blurred black clock face and it's just clearly that's a bug it's broken

00:22:29   it's got to be fixed right so I don't think it's it's again like Craig had a

00:22:35   brilliant piece earlier today like when I caught him very good friend of the

00:22:39   show yeah well I find it John's he's standing why he's in the front row but

00:22:43   standing. It's like when Aqua came out. Over the top, clearly overly saturated, like big

00:22:55   pulsing buttons, pinstripes, all kinds of transparencies that would like way too transparent

00:23:00   menus. There was a bunch of issues with Aqua and Craig's point in his piece was that it's

00:23:05   easier to just go over the top, like go with the design language and then tone it back

00:23:09   slowly until you get something what we've got now on Mac OS X, which I think everybody

00:23:13   agrees is very functional and familiar and good looking.

00:23:18   I wish I had thought of that.

00:23:20   That's pretty good.

00:23:21   I like that.

00:23:22   I thought Frank Chamaro had a good post today too, I linked to it, where he talked about

00:23:28   how the stuff like the actual exact icons and some of the little inconsistencies in

00:23:34   the way, something that should be the same across two apps is a little different, is

00:23:39   the exact sort of thing that falls through the cracks as they're racing through a deadline.

00:23:44   And this is, I think, the most important part. On a project that only started seven months

00:23:48   ago, which is just mind-blowing.

00:23:49   >> Yeah, I agree. You know what? I saw a tweet earlier from Nielai Patel, who's no Apple

00:23:56   fan, per se. But he counters that argument with, like, well, Apple makes their own deadlines.

00:24:04   Like, saying that they did it in eight months and here's what we got is true. But on the

00:24:08   other hand, they did pick a deadline. I'm just relating it, Craig.

00:24:13   I'm not saying that they deserve to be graded on a curve because it was only seven months.

00:24:16   No, no, no. I mean, I don't mean that.

00:24:17   In fact, they're not saying that. I mean, they're too -- I mean, they dropped a couple

00:24:20   of hints. I'm just saying that's a counterargument.

00:24:23   Right. They don't deserve to be graded on a curve. That's an Apple problem, not our

00:24:26   problem. But internally and for people who are engineers and come to something like this,

00:24:31   it is kind of amazing. Like this -- a year ago when we were doing

00:24:35   live talk show on day two of WWDC 2012 and Apple was one day out of having shown iOS

00:24:42   6, their plan a year ago for what iOS 7 would be was not this.

00:24:48   Their plan was something else.

00:24:50   And you know, this is no secret.

00:24:52   It goes to the ouster of Scott Forstall in October.

00:24:57   I think maybe like the multitasking stuff, some of the energy saving stuff, some of that

00:25:00   stuff.

00:25:01   Yeah.

00:25:02   The OS level stuff.

00:25:03   Yeah.

00:25:04   stuff.

00:25:05   Yeah, I think anything visible to a user.

00:25:07   Engineering stuff has all sort of been on a pace and hasn't been, there's no disruption

00:25:12   really.

00:25:13   Well, we don't know, but I would imagine less, certainly less, you know.

00:25:17   But in between last year's WWDC and Forstall's ouster, the plan was led, you know, it was

00:25:24   steady as she goes.

00:25:26   And it was Tim Cook who made that decision in October, and that's when this started.

00:25:33   Right.

00:25:34   And it's kind of amazing.

00:25:35   I think in hindsight, I mean this with no hyperbole.

00:25:38   I think Tim Cook could well be the CEO of Apple

00:25:42   for another 20 years.

00:25:45   And I really do think there's a very strong chance

00:25:49   that he'll finish his career and never

00:25:51   have made a bigger decision than that decision in October.

00:25:56   Not just Forstall personally, but because it also was--

00:26:00   The plan was we'll get rid of the forestall.

00:26:04   Johnny takes over software and in six months we're going to have...

00:26:09   Yeah, I see that as two decisions.

00:26:10   It's A, do we keep Scott?

00:26:12   No, we don't.

00:26:14   B, do we keep going with the plan in place and then correct it in the next cycle?

00:26:18   No.

00:26:19   And that was the...

00:26:21   I mean, they're both big rolls of the dice, but the second one is doubling down on a ballsy

00:26:26   bed.

00:26:27   I guess what could have happened is they got rid of forestall and I've takes over and four months into it it

00:26:32   Hopelessly lost in a quagmire of design and there's zero chance of making it and what do you do?

00:26:38   Maybe we stick with the old design and we push this out

00:26:41   We'll keep working on it, but push it out of here, so it's not like they had to do it

00:26:44   But no I mean they could have toned down any additional forestall isms that they

00:26:48   That they didn't want introduced. It's a word you can use it

00:26:54   But no, they took a really ballsy bet and what we're seeing is a result of that and I think they did something similar with

00:27:00   OS X too. Like when OS X.0 came out

00:27:04   that was kind of an awful product in many ways

00:27:08   but it showed a lot of promise and I think we're kind of in a similar situation here.

00:27:12   Well, I don't even think it's an awful product. I think after having used it, I think it's a great product

00:27:16   but the interface in particular is clearly 1.0, right?

00:27:22   Yeah, I think so and I think you know stay tuned. I think the analogy to aqua says it all you know

00:27:26   This is the 1.0

00:27:27   I'm sure it's going to improve in details just in consistencies and some cleaning up between now and when it ships in the fall

00:27:33   But this is really more about the the next five six years of Ios and laying a foundation

00:27:38   I mean yeah, I'll bet stuff like the blurs and stuff like that. It's coming down. Just like the stripes, but

00:27:43   Fundamentally though the logic and order of it is to me so appealing

00:27:48   Yeah, and I think it really really well. It doesn't need it

00:27:52   you know, it doesn't feel like you're moving in and out of apps so much anymore

00:27:56   as in the device is morphing into the new thing that you're about to use.

00:27:59   And then the one last thing I'd say on that is I woke up this morning and I felt a

00:28:02   little bit bad for Scott Forstall. I really did. I really don't mean this as a

00:28:07   joke and there were some jokes during events about the felt being taken out and

00:28:12   Federighi, Craig Federighi who did this was great and it was funny and the

00:28:15   jokes went over. And so on. But what they did though and I thought it was an

00:28:20   interesting way to present it was when they talked about these changes that

00:28:23   were the most egregious of what we call skeuomorphism and the stitching was

00:28:27   taken out of calendar and he said no virtual cows were killed for this and

00:28:32   when he introduced the new Game Center he's like we were all out of virtual

00:28:35   felt. It was an interesting thing to put it because they were treating their old

00:28:39   products as a joke like that they were in on. Yeah but I think that's probably

00:28:44   the way you have to do right you're showing some contrition by removing this

00:28:47   stuff. And I don't think it's necessarily that they're ragging on Scott, who by all

00:28:52   accounts is a very brilliant guy and has contributed incredibly much to the company.

00:28:56   I didn't know him well. I did meet him once after an event backstage and he was very gracious

00:29:02   to me. He said he liked the site and was very nice. And we had a great... We nerded out

00:29:07   on... It was the event where they introduced the iPhone 4. So it was the first Retina device.

00:29:15   And we just nerded out on Retina and I asked him,

00:29:18   is it true that you use a loop, a physical loop?

00:29:21   And he was like, oh, hell yeah.

00:29:23   It's everything.

00:29:24   Yeah, I've known people who've worked with him

00:29:26   and they say good things about him.

00:29:27   Right.

00:29:28   And I know also that his enthusiasm

00:29:30   for third party developers making money on the platform

00:29:35   was enormous.

00:29:36   Like he was so more-- I think nobody

00:29:38   was a bigger advocate for third party developers

00:29:40   than Scott Forstall.

00:29:41   You know what?

00:29:41   I just put two and two together right now.

00:29:43   A, yes, I've heard that.

00:29:44   Maybe he advocated for Carbon.

00:29:46   Yes, and that's true too.

00:29:48   That's like one of the great untold stories.

00:29:51   Don Melton brought this up on your show with Rene a couple of times.

00:29:54   It's great.

00:29:55   If you want to listen to another show that was great, look up Don Melton on Guy's debug

00:29:59   podcast.

00:30:01   But it was Scott Forstall, the next guy who really advocated for Carbon is this is the

00:30:05   right way and specifically because this is how we'll get our developers to meet us halfway.

00:30:10   So I kind of feel bad for him.

00:30:11   I kind of feel like he's sitting at home.

00:30:12   I'm feeling bad for us because the guy that's been going for developers just got the boot.

00:30:16   Alright, I'm going to take a break here.

00:30:18   I want to thank our first sponsor of the episode.

00:30:21   And it's Briefs.

00:30:23   How many of you guys have heard of Briefs?

00:30:26   I have been waiting for Briefs to actually be in the App Store so I could talk about

00:30:31   them for like five years, something like that.

00:30:34   It's been a crazy long time.

00:30:36   So great to see.

00:30:37   Briefs is a way for you to build prototypes without code using a Mac application built

00:30:43   for professionals.

00:30:44   You get this great Mac app.

00:30:45   It's a design app, a serious pro design app to make prototypes of mobile apps.

00:30:51   You express your ideas on the device the way they were meant to be used.

00:30:56   You make them, you lay them out, and then you run them on your actual phone or on your

00:31:00   iPad and you can play with these prototypes.

00:31:02   You connect the buttons from one screen to another.

00:31:05   You can make three screens and hook up hot zones and you tap here and you go there and

00:31:09   you feel it and you can make these ideas, you can test how they feel rather than just

00:31:15   how they look as soon as possible.

00:31:18   And then if, let's say if this is in the hands of a designer on your team, the designer can

00:31:23   hand this brief off to the engineers and they have like an actual blueprint to start hooking

00:31:29   up.

00:31:30   It really works great.

00:31:33   I couldn't be happier that it's actually in the App Store.

00:31:35   It's been a very long story.

00:31:36   But anybody who does iOS design work, if you don't check out

00:31:40   Briefs, you're nuts.

00:31:41   You're missing out on truly a great tool.

00:31:45   Have you ever used Briefs?

00:31:46   -I've been working on it for a little bit, actually.

00:31:48   -Really?

00:31:49   -Yeah, contributed a little bit to it.

00:31:51   Recently, most of what's shipping has nothing to do with

00:31:54   me, and the team is awesome.

00:31:55   And Rob Ryan is here somewhere, who's the leader.

00:31:58   And his idea is his initial impetus for C4 all those years

00:32:02   ago.

00:32:02   But yeah, I've been working on stuff that's in the future

00:32:05   sometime, but it's a great app.

00:32:06   And you know what?

00:32:07   It's not just iOS design.

00:32:08   Yeah, iOS design, you should be checking it out.

00:32:11   And it works for Android stuff, too.

00:32:14   So next guest.

00:32:17   A lot of guests over the last year, but there's one person

00:32:20   in particular who I think I've had the most--

00:32:24   I can't believe you haven't had this person on the talk

00:32:26   show yet.

00:32:29   By far and away, number one request.

00:32:30   So I thought what better than when better than WWDC.

00:32:33   Let's give it up for my wife, Amy Jane Gruber.

00:32:40   That's her name.

00:32:47   What?

00:32:49   Oh, the URL for briefs.

00:32:56   Getabrief.com, right?

00:33:00   I should have you on the show more often.

00:33:04   Get a brief, no, giveabrief.com, right?

00:33:07   Giveabrief.com.

00:33:09   Everybody load it right now, crash their server.

00:33:12   Giveabrief.com.

00:33:13   Take a brief, leave a brief.

00:33:17   Giveabrief.com.

00:33:18   Can we get this?

00:33:19   Okay.

00:33:20   Hey Rob, text me if that's wrong and I'll fix it.

00:33:23   So I'm not going to nerd out with you, but I did-- have you seen iOS 7 yet?

00:33:29   A little bit.

00:33:30   Have you seen it on a phone?

00:33:31   Are you seriously going to do this?

00:33:32   Just a little bit.

00:33:34   Yeah, OK.

00:33:37   My question for you is this.

00:33:39   This is very serious.

00:33:40   It's very serious.

00:33:42   One of the criticisms I've seen is that iOS 7 is so different, and there's-- what did

00:33:49   Tim Cook say?

00:33:50   I don't know, 500 million people using it or 500 million devices sold?

00:33:54   I mean, there's a lot of people who are used to iOS 7 as it has looked since

00:33:58   2007 and that now they're all lost and their phone's gonna upgrade to this OS and they're not gonna know how to do anything.

00:34:04   When you looked at it, did you did you feel like this is... Guys on the phone. What? Guys on the phone. He's not paying attention.

00:34:15   Stuff going on don't worry, but yeah when you look at Iowa 7

00:34:18   Do you feel like you were gonna be lost or do you just feel like hey this just looks new no

00:34:22   I think it looks new and I think that in two weeks all of you will look back at the old ones and be like

00:34:29   Oh, that's so shitty

00:34:30   you know I I

00:34:32   Think it's just a matter of getting used to it

00:34:35   So you're not worried no, I'm not worried, but does anyone care if I'm worried?

00:34:42   Does anyone care what I think?

00:34:47   Yay!

00:34:52   You're very kind.

00:34:54   The funniest thing I've seen written about all of iOS 7 was on a site called droidlife.com

00:35:02   And they were, it was the headline...

00:35:05   Are you seriously doing this?

00:35:07   Yeah, I'm seriously doing it.

00:35:08   Are you confused?

00:35:10   Give me a minute. Okay.

00:35:12   But they wrote that it looks, it's all ripped off from Android

00:35:16   including on the lock screen the use of a new semi-robat font.

00:35:22   And I thought that was so great because it's, it's, was Helvetica and now it still is Helvetica on the lock screen.

00:35:34   It's just a slightly thinner weight and Helvetica has, has

00:35:38   Been around since 1953 and Roboto was invented

00:35:42   Like last year as a Helvetica ripoff and they they said it was semi-Roboto

00:35:49   Go on

00:35:55   What do you think it's a ripoff of Android have you what's your opinion on Android I have never seen an Android

00:36:04   Alright. So the other thing that's new this week is I have, and I want to take this moment

00:36:17   to thank them because I know they're here, I have been working with two guys and we formed

00:36:23   a company Qbranch in our app ship last week, Vesper, and my two colleagues Dave Whiskus

00:36:30   and Brent, Brent Simmons are here. I want to thank them. We've been working on this

00:36:39   for you know a little six months or so and I just want to thank you guys right here and

00:36:46   just say how proud I am to work with you guys. And I'm still in promotional mode so anybody

00:36:53   who hasn't checked out Vesper please you know go to the app store search for Vesper or go

00:36:57   Go to VesperApp.co to find out more.

00:37:04   And so I wanted to ask you what -- >> Doug Russell had an awesome post about making

00:37:10   Vesper accessible.

00:37:12   And I had a great conversation with him at the end of the day.

00:37:15   >> I can thank them too.

00:37:16   A couple of other guys who did help us out a little bit.

00:37:17   Doug Russell and not just a good post on accessibility.

00:37:20   He really helped us make it accessible.

00:37:24   And Nick Arnott also helped us a lot with QA.

00:37:28   These are two guys who just kind of helped out because they wanted to help out.

00:37:31   And it's great.

00:37:32   And they're not getting anywhere near as much credit as me and Brent and Dave.

00:37:36   But they really do deserve it.

00:37:38   And the accessibility stuff in 1.0 really makes me proud.

00:37:41   Because that's easily the sort of thing that can slip.

00:37:43   You think, oh, you want to be accessible.

00:37:45   But you get so focused on making it look cool that it does slip.

00:37:48   But we have some really good voiceover accessibility in there.

00:37:51   And it's all thanks to Doug.

00:37:53   It was really kind of like an idiot savant on this accessibility stuff.

00:38:00   So what was it like working, you know there's this thing that Apple always does at the end

00:38:05   of the keynotes where Steve Jobs used to do it and now Tim Cook does it where they, after

00:38:08   they're done saying anything, they just take a moment and thank the employees who worked

00:38:12   on it and they thank the employees, families for more or less putting up with them when

00:38:18   they were in this death march to launch.

00:38:20   And so I'm curious to know whether you thought it was difficult living with me over the last

00:38:24   six months.

00:38:25   Wait, we're only talking the last six months.

00:38:32   The last six months have been horrible.

00:38:37   Absolutely horrible.

00:38:38   I am used to living with a writer who maybe sometimes gets stuck.

00:38:42   And so he's absolutely insufferable for a day or two.

00:38:47   But he's been insufferable for six months.

00:38:51   It's been terrible.

00:38:53   - Well, in what way?

00:38:54   Worse than usual.

00:38:55   Don't talk about the usual way that I'm horrible.

00:38:57   (audience laughing)

00:38:59   Just what's worse than usual.

00:39:01   - So the worst is pretty bad.

00:39:04   Like the way you are every single day is pretty bad.

00:39:08   (audience laughing)

00:39:11   But this has been terrible.

00:39:13   I mean, he doesn't even come to bed until I'm waking up.

00:39:16   like six in the morning, I'll be getting up

00:39:19   to take our son to school and he'll just be going to bed.

00:39:22   And he's drunk as hell.

00:39:24   (audience laughing)

00:39:26   Right?

00:39:28   Like so drunk stumbling into the bed,

00:39:31   pushes the bed six feet over and I'm like,

00:39:33   well I guess I'm up now.

00:39:34   No, it's been terrible, it's been awful.

00:39:38   I don't know how people do it.

00:39:40   I think that I should start a support group

00:39:42   for the spouses of people who make apps.

00:39:45   Like they're so bad.

00:39:47   Yeah.

00:39:49   Applause.

00:39:51   You know, I had this halfway thought through and I realized if I thought it totally through, I wouldn't have done it this way.

00:39:56   But I had the idea that this would make a good way to expand the guest list because I thought Guy could kind of help us sort of, as like a marriage counselor.

00:40:03   God, really?

00:40:05   To patch this up.

00:40:07   I'm not a marriage counselor, I'm the guy that gets me drunk until 6 a.m. in the morning.

00:40:10   That's where I realized it was a problem.

00:40:12   is that...

00:40:13   Guy is part of the problem.

00:40:15   Guy is the one who will stay up texting him until 6 a.m. getting him drunk.

00:40:21   So...

00:40:22   I don't get him drunk.

00:40:23   I just tell him what I'm drinking.

00:40:25   It's different.

00:40:26   - Well, Guy... - It's like I'm not pouring him the drinks, right?

00:40:30   Come on, Guy.

00:40:31   He's an idol.

00:40:31   You're no help.

00:40:33   Yeah, but I'm charming enough that I get away with it, right?

00:40:35   - This is where... - You do. You do.

00:40:36   - You're a handsome man, Guy. - I know, I know. Thank you.

00:40:39   Where I realize it might be a problem,

00:40:40   and maybe you're not gonna help us patch this up tonight on stage is that

00:40:43   You and I have a thing we've done for the last couple years

00:40:46   We're both big fans of the show Mad Men and we watch it together and text each other like little school kids

00:40:52   During the show we have a date night and and the phrase that has come up a couple times over the last six months is

00:40:58   You still have time for fucking guy English

00:41:00   That's true. I have actually brought up like, you know your relationship with guy English hasn't suffered. I

00:41:09   I mean sure your son doesn't even know who you are and I hate you, but you and Guy seem to have maintained a relationship

00:41:17   Process what's funny is like about a week before he shipped

00:41:23   John took me to the zoo

00:41:25   And it was terrific we had a lovely day

00:41:30   There was there was ice cream

00:41:35   It's great. Yeah, I haven't seen my husband in six months. I'm sorry. It's not my fault. No

00:41:40   You know the right, you know, I like to bring my I like to blame Brent

00:41:44   Brent's fault. It's been yeah, it's Brent's fault. Sorry. No, you're the only one who he's maintained a good relationship

00:41:52   We don't have a good relationship. I'm

00:41:54   I have a coffee mug that says I'm the best father in the world

00:41:57   That was like because I was lazy and that was the stock writing on the mug

00:42:04   Yeah, we didn't write that that just came on the mug. I want to take a big break here and

00:42:09   Really you want to take a break now?

00:42:14   And

00:42:18   We have a you know everybody who's in the audience can see these signs. We've we have an event sponsor for this show and

00:42:23   I mentioned at the outset. It's it's Microsoft for Windows Azure

00:42:28   And I want to take a couple minutes here. I want to invite

00:42:33   Josh twist from Microsoft

00:42:35   Here he is

00:42:38   Thanks, John. I want to get Josh a couple minutes to talk to you guys

00:42:44   Thanks, John. I when I started to work at Microsoft. I really didn't think it would lead here

00:42:51   But it's awesome that it did. I am really proud to be the new owner of the talk show so thanks Marco

00:42:58   >> The whole wallet, I guess.

00:43:02   So Bulma says hi.

00:43:04   My name is Josh Twist, I'm a program manager on the Windows Azure team.

00:43:10   Windows Azure, in case you're unfamiliar, is a complete cloud platform.

00:43:14   Exactly what you would expect from a large vendor like Microsoft, we have everything

00:43:17   you would need to run services in the cloud.

00:43:20   So VMs, all the Windows images you can imagine, and we even do Linux, if that's your persuasion.

00:43:26   We have elastic storage capabilities, a ton of vertical services that people can use,

00:43:32   things like identity services, media encoding services, and even a really powerful messaging

00:43:38   capability.

00:43:39   All very powerful components.

00:43:41   I work for a group called the Windows Azure Mobile Group and our goal is to make Windows

00:43:45   Azure really, really compelling for mobile developers like you guys who like building

00:43:49   for iOS.

00:43:53   We launched Windows Azure mobile services which is a turnkey back end that makes it

00:43:58   incredibly easy for any kind of developer to add all of those powers, all of those capabilities

00:44:04   in Windows Azure to your apps.

00:44:06   We believe that the best apps are connected.

00:44:09   You need to have storage so you can create scenarios that span devices and even users

00:44:14   and you can understand who users are.

00:44:16   That's why we built mobile services which we launched in August last year.

00:44:20   I will give you examples of what this thing can do.

00:44:24   It's very easy to use.

00:44:25   If you are a client-focused developer, you can get right on board no problem.

00:44:29   But also if you are a back-end ninja, you will like this platform too.

00:44:32   About half of our users are back-end developers.

00:44:36   We have structured storage capabilities so you can save data to the cloud where it is

00:44:40   highly available and backed up in triplicate by the Windows Azure SQL service.

00:44:45   You can access that using our objective C native SDK for iOS which is open source on

00:44:51   GitHub.

00:44:53   You are not dreaming this is really happening.

00:44:56   So try it out.

00:44:58   We have great support for identity so you can sign in with Facebook, Twitter, Google,

00:45:02   simple configuration entry on the service and one line of code in your client you have

00:45:06   done with sign in.

00:45:08   We also have server logic so you can run code in response to stimulus from the device or

00:45:12   Or even using our scheduler feature which is like cron for the cloud where we will run

00:45:16   JavaScript in our Node.js servers and you can use that to send push notifications to

00:45:21   an Apple device which is great given the recent announcements with a single line of JavaScript

00:45:27   code.

00:45:28   You don't have to take my word for this though.

00:45:30   A while back, a few months back, I forced a guy you might know, John doesn't though

00:45:34   from what I just heard, called Brent Simmons, I forced this guy to have coffee with me and

00:45:39   let me show him the service.

00:45:40   It turned out he liked it.

00:45:41   He seemed quite into it.

00:45:43   We asked him would you do some videos for us.

00:45:45   So Brent kindly did three videos that show you just how easy this service is to use.

00:45:49   You can see those at, memory is ready now, www.windowsazure.com/ios.

00:45:58   Go there and see those videos.

00:45:59   You can sign up for the free trial.

00:46:01   You get a ton of free Azure stuff for three months and you will get ten free mobile services

00:46:06   that I'm talking about in perpetuity.

00:46:08   We will give you those and you can run them as long as you like.

00:46:12   Also in addition, I will be speaking at old WWDC tomorrow, the first session at 10 o'clock.

00:46:16   If you are around for that, please check out the session.

00:46:19   It will be fun, lots of live coding.

00:46:22   Just for this audience, since we now own the show, if anyone would like to tweet why they

00:46:27   are interested in mobile services and just make sure my name is at the end of the tweet

00:46:31   @joshtwist, I will sort you out with an Azure pass where we will give you more Azure resources,

00:46:37   whole shebang for free. So I just want to say thanks to John. I hope the show continues

00:46:41   to be as great as it has been. And enjoy the bar. Steve's delighted to give you guys a

00:46:48   drink. Enjoy the rest of the conference. Thanks, John.

00:46:51   Josh, thanks. That was great. That was really great. And I really do. Clearly, there's a

00:46:58   strange bedfellows aspect here of this, but I do think...

00:47:01   I wanted to say something about that.

00:47:04   I'd like to think-- is this even on?

00:47:06   Is this on?

00:47:07   Yeah, OK.

00:47:08   I'd like to think that as iOS or Mac developers, we like

00:47:13   good stuff, regardless of what it is.

00:47:15   And Brent earnestly really likes Windows Azure and a bunch

00:47:19   of my other friends that have also promoted it in various

00:47:22   ways, also really like it.

00:47:24   I haven't had a chance to use it, but if I had a need, I

00:47:27   would definitely go for it.

00:47:29   very smart people have said very nice things about it.

00:47:33   So I don't think it's strange bedfellows at all. I think it's just

00:47:36   good quality stuff. - I mean, and the truth is, everybody knows you cannot ship an app

00:47:40   today that doesn't sync.

00:47:46   You just can't do it. - Oh, it would sync in a different way.

00:47:49   - You sure as shit can't charge

00:47:51   five dollars for it. - That's what I've heard. - Five dollars.

00:47:57   I would like to just move right along. Let's go to the next guest.

00:48:00   And it's my good friend, who's been on the show before, Mr. Scott Simpson.

00:48:07   What if that was my... What was that? I was just going to do that for ten minutes.

00:48:25   Just dance

00:48:26   and then start rapping to Digital Underground's same song.

00:48:30   Hey everybody, how are you?

00:48:32   Nice to see you.

00:48:34   How has the show been going so far?

00:48:36   I haven't been listening.

00:48:37   Did they talk about computers?

00:48:39   They talk about computers?

00:48:41   Rounded recs, is that a thing?

00:48:43   Rounded rec?

00:48:44   API, I don't know.

00:48:46   Listen, the show, so when we were looking at the structure

00:48:48   of the show, I realized that, oh also,

00:48:51   I wanna say one thing about Windows,

00:48:53   this word I can now pronounce,

00:48:55   I never knew how to pronounce it before.

00:48:57   John asked me to be on the show,

00:48:58   and I was like, I'll do it,

00:49:00   but I have to follow a guy who talks

00:49:04   about a service for nerds,

00:49:06   uses the word ninja unironically,

00:49:09   and then gets everybody to get out their phone

00:49:11   and tweet something.

00:49:13   Thank you for that, so thank you.

00:49:16   Hey, WWDC, who's here for WWDC?

00:49:20   Clap your hands, woo!

00:49:22   I love, WWDC is the only conference whose name is also a pretty good field sobriety test.

00:49:28   [laughter]

00:49:29   Son, you were driving pretty erratically. Where were you tonight?

00:49:32   Oh, I was at a party for W...

00:49:35   Step out of the car, son.

00:49:39   It's the opposite of South by Southwest, which you can really only pronounce correctly if you're southern, drunk, and have a sandwich and a joint in your mouth.

00:49:47   South by. South by.

00:49:49   [laughter]

00:49:51   I was just talking about that name with somebody at WWDC and they're like, "Just say Dub-Dub.

00:49:56   Just say Dub-Dub.

00:49:57   No problem.

00:49:58   Just say Dub-Dub.

00:49:59   Dub-Dub.

00:50:00   Just do Dub-Dub."

00:50:02   Dub-Dub is Ewok for "Don't say Dub-Dub."

00:50:08   Some of you laughed.

00:50:09   Some of you were like, "That actually is a tautology."

00:50:11   The people who thought both, who did both, you're my friends.

00:50:17   Out of towners, welcome to our lovely city, San Francisco.

00:50:20   It's a beautiful place.

00:50:21   Great weather today

00:50:23   You know what Mark Twain said about San Francisco in the sub

00:50:28   You're officially allowed when anybody starts out the sentence, you know what Mark Twain said about summer and st. You just punch them in the face

00:50:35   Also anything about Mexican coke, you know Mexican coke

00:50:40   But it doesn't

00:50:45   San Francisco's great. Don't worry about buying souvenirs if you need to buy a souvenir

00:50:51   They have them at the airport.

00:50:53   Official souvenir of the city of San Francisco.

00:50:55   It's just a burrito full of weed.

00:50:57   [laughter]

00:50:58   It comes in a little holder that's shaped like assless chaps.

00:51:02   [laughter]

00:51:03   Makes a great gift for your children.

00:51:05   Works on any Ken doll.

00:51:06   Can put on any Ken doll, any GI Joe.

00:51:08   Older style.

00:51:10   Again, not really. Doesn't really make sense, but I'd say funny.

00:51:13   I'd say B+.

00:51:14   [laughter]

00:51:15   Hey guys. Nice to see you.

00:51:17   Telling jokes.

00:51:19   Dumb.

00:51:21   So if you're new to San Francisco,

00:51:23   maybe you've had the chance to see one of the ubiquitous Google buses or Apple buses

00:51:29   that are always rolling through. The free shuttles that take Apple and Google employees to work. Maybe you're lucky enough to ride one yourself.

00:51:37   Very important to know the difference between them though because

00:51:40   if you're an Apple employee who gets on a Google bus, they will literally rip you apart with their hands.

00:51:47   Probably like seven multi-tools on that bus. They will rip you apart

00:51:50   Here's the difference between an Apple bus and a Google bus. Apple bus the door is on top which seems weird at first

00:51:58   But then you watch a really elegantly produced seven and a half minute video

00:52:03   About how the bus is cut from a single piece of aluminum

00:52:16   This is I'm enjoying this so much because this is literally the only time these jokes are ever gonna be told right

00:52:21   This is it

00:52:22   I'm not gonna go do the chuckle Hut in Modesto tomorrow and be like the difference between a Google bus. I'll be murdered

00:52:28   Apple bus cost $40 to ride which seems expensive for a free shuttle

00:52:36   You know you're fired here's I like this one too, I'm just gonna pre announce how much I like my jokes

00:52:44   (audience laughing)

00:52:46   You know you're fired at Apple when you get on the bus

00:52:48   and the only person on there is Tony Soprano.

00:52:52   Hey kid, sit down.

00:52:53   The Google bus sounds like the car from the Jetsons

00:52:57   and smells like farts.

00:52:58   That's all I wrote for the Google bus.

00:53:02   Here's a story that happened to me.

00:53:06   I think maybe you guys might be,

00:53:07   some of you folks might be able to relate.

00:53:09   I have two small children and now we go to the library

00:53:13   a lot more than we used to the public library.

00:53:16   I don't know if you do that, you probably, yeah, clap for,

00:53:18   God damn it, let's clap for the public library.

00:53:20   (audience cheering)

00:53:21   'Cause when you have kids and you go,

00:53:23   you're like, there are books and they're free.

00:53:25   We, they're free.

00:53:27   It's amazing.

00:53:27   The only bad thing is that at a public library,

00:53:30   there are two types of people, families with young kids

00:53:33   and old weird dudes checking out conspiracy videos

00:53:37   on the computers.

00:53:38   They don't match, they don't mix.

00:53:40   I was in the bathroom with my son at the public library,

00:53:42   we were washing our hands.

00:53:43   Next to me was a guy who looked exactly like Beetlejuice

00:53:48   with no shirt, giving himself a sponge bath,

00:53:51   more of a paper towel rub down.

00:53:54   And I was shielding my son and I looked up

00:53:57   and made accidental eye contact and he looked at me

00:54:00   and he said, "Nerd!"

00:54:04   (audience laughing)

00:54:05   I was like, "Hey man, I get it, I get it.

00:54:09   "If we were at a college sporting event, fine.

00:54:11   "For at the mall? Fine.

00:54:13   "We're in the library, motherfucker.

00:54:14   "This is my turf.

00:54:16   "You don't call me nerd here."

00:54:18   That's not true, I just squealed,

00:54:20   threw my kid at him and ran out the door.

00:54:22   (audience laughing)

00:54:25   Reggie, I learned his name, it's Reggie.

00:54:28   Reggie and I are close now.

00:54:29   He showed me where he keeps his library wine.

00:54:31   Helping him edit his thousand page letter to Abraham Lincoln.

00:54:35   We're gonna send it to Daniel Day Lewis.

00:54:38   I think he'll probably answer.

00:54:41   But Reggie was right about one thing, which is, you know,

00:54:44   look at my face, right?

00:54:46   Like 45 Scott Simpson body doubles in the audience tonight.

00:54:51   People have to meet me like six or seven times

00:54:56   to remember my name.

00:54:57   They're like, "Joe, Terry, I don't know,

00:54:59   "you have a boring face."

00:55:00   And they're right.

00:55:03   And I feel like I missed an opportunity.

00:55:05   I feel like I should have been a murderer.

00:55:07   Because when the cops come to take statements

00:55:10   from the witnesses, they'll just be like,

00:55:13   "I don't know, he was kinda tall?

00:55:16   Like, he looked like, like if a Starbucks

00:55:21   turned into a person, is that helpful, no?

00:55:24   Like if Tilda Swinton got a J. Crew gift card

00:55:27   and half a shot of testosterone,

00:55:29   he definitely knows Photoshop, no, not helpful, okay."

00:55:33   I wanna do one more thing, I've been thinking

00:55:37   about this a lot lately.

00:55:38   I'm bummed how hard it is to communicate around the world.

00:55:42   So many languages, it's so frustrating

00:55:45   that we can't just easily understand each other.

00:55:49   I think the EU has something like 14 official languages

00:55:52   that you have to translate all the documents into

00:55:55   before you can do EU stuff.

00:55:58   The Olympics in English and French,

00:56:01   if you don't understand English and French,

00:56:02   it's a total bummer.

00:56:03   So I realized recently that the answer

00:56:07   is right there at our fingertips.

00:56:09   A lot of us have been using it already

00:56:12   to communicate pretty nuanced and sophisticated ideas.

00:56:17   So I'm gonna have a couple friends come out right now

00:56:22   and help me demonstrate the potential power

00:56:25   of this language that I think we could all use

00:56:28   for better communication.

00:56:28   So coming to the stage right now,

00:56:30   my good friends from the internet, Mr. Merlin Mann.

00:56:34   (audience cheers)

00:56:36   And Mr. Adam Lisagor.

00:56:38   (audience applauding)

00:56:41   So guys, first I love you, you're the best.

00:56:49   Second, this is a scenario that I think

00:56:54   will demonstrate the power of this language.

00:56:56   You are two rival countries at the United Nations,

00:57:01   you're representatives of two countries

00:57:04   negotiating an issue.

00:57:06   Okay, does that make sense?

00:57:07   There are two negotiators.

00:57:08   Okay, so take it away guys.

00:57:12   Slice of pizza.

00:57:15   Slice of pizza.

00:57:19   Shining sun.

00:57:22   Sun behind cloud.

00:57:24   Grinning face.

00:57:26   Flamenco dancer.

00:57:28   Laughing face.

00:57:31   Serious face.

00:57:32   Briefcase.

00:57:33   Briefcase.

00:57:34   - Hmm, nut and bolt.

00:57:37   - Fuel pump, bag of money, European castle,

00:57:41   sunset, rolling dice.

00:57:43   - Rolling dice, question mark?

00:57:45   - Fuel pump, trumpet, trumpet, trumpet, flexing bicep.

00:57:52   - Oh, pouting face.

00:57:54   - Angry face.

00:57:56   - Oh, Japanese symbol for beginner.

00:57:59   (audience laughing)

00:58:04   angry face face with stuck out tongue

00:58:06   angry face pistol pointing finger

00:58:10   No entry sign Statue of Liberty jet plane speedboat rocket fire fire fire

00:58:16   Pile of poo

00:58:24   Pile of poo

00:58:28   pile of poo pile of poo

00:58:31   Pile of poo pile of pile of pile of pile of pile of poo pile of poo pile of poo

00:58:36   broken heart broken heart

00:58:39   Broken heart okay hand sign okay hand sign tired face

00:58:47   Hey light bulb

00:58:50   hatching chick

00:58:52   jet plane tomato

00:58:55   Peach eggplant

00:58:58   Tomato, peach, eggplant.

00:59:04   Clapping hands.

00:59:07   Mug of beer?

00:59:09   Clinking mugs of beer.

00:59:11   Two hearts.

00:59:13   Arrow through heart.

00:59:15   Kiss mark.

00:59:16   Two people kissing.

00:59:20   Pile of poop.

00:59:23   Pile of poop.

00:59:26   The Power of Emoji with Merlin Mann and Adam Lisagor, ladies and gentlemen.

00:59:29   Thank you guys so much.

00:59:32   That's it for my jokes.

00:59:34   I'm just going to stay on stage though because I can.

00:59:39   I will.

00:59:40   Hi.

00:59:41   Hello, Scott.

00:59:42   That was a nice surprise, Scott.

00:59:48   Thank you.

00:59:49   I'm never going to see them again.

00:59:50   That's it.

00:59:52   That's it for us.

00:59:53   I have one question.

00:59:55   I did not know what you were gonna do, right?

00:59:57   I wasn't prepared.

00:59:57   - Sorry, can I just interrupt and say Lex, Lex, Lexie?

01:00:01   - You're the best.

01:00:01   - Could you hook a brother up, I was gonna say.

01:00:04   Hook a brother, I'm sorry Brandon.

01:00:07   How many black people are here tonight?

01:00:11   Literally my comedian friend Brandon

01:00:13   is the one black person.

01:00:14   Thank you for coming and representing

01:00:17   every person in your race.

01:00:19   - I've had two ships.

01:00:20   - A whiskey if you please, Lex.

01:00:22   - Two ships.

01:00:23   - I appreciate it, thank you.

01:00:23   two sips of that. My question is was was was the script written out in English or

01:00:30   was it written in emojai? It was written in English. And how did I just

01:00:36   butcher the word emojai? Emojai. That's a real dad pronunciation. No it's emoji.

01:00:44   Emoji. Emoji. Scoot over here has some questions. Let me just take I just want to

01:00:52   I want to take one last break. I want to thank the other sponsor of the episode.

01:00:56   And it's Tumblewords. It's an addictive word game.

01:01:00   It works on the iPhone, the iPad, the iPad Touch.

01:01:04   And it quote unquote blends the elements of

01:01:08   Paul Capacis, ladies and gentlemen.

01:01:12   It blends

01:01:16   elements of familiar and novel word games with beautiful artwork,

01:01:20   totally serious, really, really high quality art.

01:01:25   Including artwork from the creator of Aikwood.

01:01:28   You guys remember that game?

01:01:29   It was a great game.

01:01:29   Chris Onstad.

01:01:30   He did the art for TumbleWords, and it looks great.

01:01:33   Single player mode, double player mode, really fun.

01:01:37   Think of it as Boggle plus some really cool twists, where

01:01:42   you get these grids of words, and you have to find

01:01:44   contiguous words in the grid.

01:01:46   But it's a lot more than that.

01:01:48   There's stuff at the bottom.

01:01:49   You can replace tiles, you go fast.

01:01:52   Beautiful games, if you love word games,

01:01:53   you've got to check it out.

01:01:55   It is in the App Store.

01:01:57   You can go to the App Store and check for Tumblewords.

01:01:59   You will find it.

01:02:00   You can also find out more by going to the website

01:02:04   of the company behind it, Mini Core Studios.

01:02:07   They have a website, minicorestudios.com,

01:02:10   and you will find out more about the game there.

01:02:16   So my thanks to Tumblewords.

01:02:18   Check it out.

01:02:19   It's in the app store.

01:02:20   [APPLAUSE]

01:02:29   So one of the things-- we actually have something else.

01:02:31   We have something-- one more thing to do to announce actual

01:02:36   serious business.

01:02:39   So Amy, you've over the last two, three years, maybe,

01:02:43   you appeared on several podcasts?

01:02:48   - A lot of podcasts, but not yours.

01:02:50   - But not mine.

01:02:51   - I'm not taking it personally.

01:02:52   - Right, problem solved though, right?

01:02:54   Today. - Problem solved.

01:02:55   - But you've been on a bunch of podcasts.

01:02:56   - But not yours.

01:02:57   - And you have?

01:02:59   - I'm just saying, never his.

01:03:01   - You have a Twitter.

01:03:03   It's very funny. - Do I?

01:03:05   - You do.

01:03:06   And so this is-- - I have a Twitter.

01:03:08   - Over the past few years since you've been able to,

01:03:10   as our son got older and we could just leave him home alone,

01:03:13   He's home alone right now.

01:03:16   Jonas is also three and a half years old.

01:03:19   Yeah, he's three and a half.

01:03:20   No, he's nine and he's fine.

01:03:23   But this is a recurring...

01:03:27   It rhymed. I didn't plan that.

01:03:29   This is a recurring theme is Amy and I will be together and WWDC is ground zero for this

01:03:36   and we will be, let's say, walking, you know, to or from the hotel or something like that

01:03:40   like that and somebody will come up who recognizes us and this is the way it

01:03:45   goes they say you're John Gruber and I say yes and they say you're a yes I

01:03:54   channel my best Marv Albert yeah and they say you're Amy Jane and they say

01:04:01   yes and they say I love your website and I say thank you and they say I love your

01:04:05   Twitter and you say of course you do and then they say you're funnier than him

01:04:12   they do we get a lot of you're funnier than he is and that has to admit it and

01:04:18   pains me to admit it and I have to admit it and that's the moment where you go

01:04:24   instantly and so smoothly from who is this weird fucker and why do they keep

01:04:28   bugging us to oh I like you I do and also I think it sort of fits as a little

01:04:40   poet a couple months ago Scott you were on the show with me and and we were on

01:04:44   with our good friend Paul kafasas who's a drink fetcher I here today he's really

01:04:52   good at fetching drinks anybody out there needs a drink Paul just raise your

01:04:54   hand Paul will take care of all well yeah Paul will handle you but we were

01:04:57   We had a pretty funny show, I thought.

01:04:59   It was the one where we came up.

01:05:00   We have a bit, we're rolling on this business plan, no pun intended, Velocity Hotels.

01:05:04   You're welcome.

01:05:05   Right.

01:05:06   And I mean, Onis, Vesper would have shipped eight months or eight weeks ago if not for

01:05:10   the work I've been putting in on Velocity Hotels.

01:05:12   Right, right, right.

01:05:13   We did not ship that one in time.

01:05:14   We really wanted to ship Vesper for WWDC and we made it.

01:05:18   We really wanted to have...

01:05:19   It's a prototype hotel and it's a U-Haul van with a poor paint job and cardboard boxes on

01:05:25   it.

01:05:26   But it's getting there.

01:05:27   We ran into some legal issues shipping it for WWDC, but we're moving on it.

01:05:30   But anyway, it was with Paul.

01:05:31   Very funny guy.

01:05:33   Okay.

01:05:35   He's all right.

01:05:35   Semi-familiar.

01:05:36   He's a little bit friendly with a you and you guys have something to announce.

01:05:40   You guys are going to start your own podcast.

01:05:44   You and Paul,

01:05:46   kafasas, me and Paul kafasas, just being funny every week.

01:05:53   I'm not sure that the only people who think me and Paul

01:05:57   kapasas are funny are me and Paul kapasas. We're gonna find

01:06:00   out. We're gonna find out. All right, but we need a name for

01:06:03   the show. I think we're so fucking funny. That's the name

01:06:08   of the show. We think we're so we're so fucking funny. I mean,

01:06:12   you may not enjoy it at all. But Paul and I are fucking cracked

01:06:16   out. What is the name of the show?

01:06:22   In the voice?

01:06:23   Do you like my voice?

01:06:24   It's called Just The Tip.

01:06:26   What's the website, Paul?

01:06:30   It's justthetip.fm

01:06:32   They don't have a dot rapey domain available?

01:06:36   That would be handy for your uncle.

01:06:42   Yeah, just look me up on fred.rapey.

01:06:44   I don't know, my cousin made the website for me.

01:06:48   And they've got the Twitter handle already at at symbol you to pronounce the at symbol

01:06:53   I don't know. I just say at so I can really get that it us East Coast

01:06:57   nasally a out there at just the tip

01:07:01   On Twitter my suggestion. I haven't even get down here. What's the story?

01:07:08   From the from the little weird lounge behind us there was a staircase

01:07:14   It's weird that you just appear it's kind of unclear uninvited

01:07:19   uninvited

01:07:21   My suggested title for the show was drunken giggly. No, it was drunk in the trunk

01:07:26   Wait, who's who's drunk and who's the trunk? No, we were going to record it from my car

01:07:34   Because my husband was working on an app and he couldn't give me the microphone and the the laptop

01:07:43   So Paul and I actually deliberated recording our first episode in my car in the garage

01:07:52   and we were going to call it "Drunk in the Trunk."

01:07:55   Was the engine going to be on or off?

01:07:57   No, no.

01:07:58   If it got hot, I was going to run the engine and then it was going to be a snuff cast.

01:08:04   Yeah, yeah, it's called "I'm Feeling Sleepy."

01:08:06   It's one episode.

01:08:07   Good episode.

01:08:08   Long, long.

01:08:09   A lot of silence at the end.

01:08:11   snuff cast episode right this is not gasps I'm gonna be a total snuff cast I am I'm very excited by

01:08:19   this I think it's gonna be great I've heard the first episode and it really is funny oh you're

01:08:24   wrong here's what I want to know I want to know going forward who's more likely to actually listen

01:08:29   to the other show me or you oh wait who whoa which of us is more likely to listen to our marriage

01:08:37   Wait, wait, wait, wait. We just patched this up. Didn't I just patch up your marriage?

01:08:41   Put it down, guy.

01:08:43   So, this is our marriage on the line.

01:08:45   Am I gonna listen to your show, or are you going to listen to my show?

01:08:49   Or both.

01:08:50   'Cause I can tell you right fucking now, I will never listen to your show.

01:08:54   But you totally have to listen to my show.

01:09:02   Hey, that seems like problem solved.

01:09:06   But I want to move on to another issue. I mean I really want to work out. I mean this is like in my Vesper

01:09:12   It was like I have this whole tag on fixing my marriage, and I'm getting through all of them today

01:09:16   Nothing's fixing your marriage. I am almost out of them now

01:09:20   here's the deal and this goes back one year to WWDC last year, and it was beer bash night and

01:09:27   More of us it was a little bit easier to get a ticket last year didn't sell out in 71 seconds

01:09:33   that sold out an hour. More of my friends and, you know, people I know had passes and

01:09:39   so, you know, we all went to the beer bash. But whenever you do that, if you're hanging

01:09:47   out with people who don't have passes, it's always a little awkward, you know, if you

01:09:50   come with your wife, your wife can't come in. And we were having some drinks before

01:09:55   the beer bash and then Scott was hanging around, did not have a pass and he said, "Don't worry

01:09:59   about it. You know, we'll just go somewhere. We'll have a good time. We'll meet up with

01:10:02   you guys later. And then they, the two of them, and it wasn't anybody else, everybody

01:10:06   else is at the beer bash, and they wound up at Harry Denton's Starlight Lounge.

01:10:12   It's pronounced Harry Denton's Starlight Lounge.

01:10:15   Are you guys familiar with Harry Denton's Starlight Lounge?

01:10:19   Are we going to talk about this? This is crazy. Are we going to talk about this?

01:10:23   Well, I'm going to talk about it, because then after the beer bash, everybody else,

01:10:27   they were still there, it was, you know, here's where we are, and you know, five, six, seven

01:10:31   of us came up there and we went up to meet them and you have to put it in

01:10:35   perspective is that it was just me and Scott no one else had yet you all had

01:10:42   tickets to the beer bash Scott and I had nothing else to do look so far so good

01:10:46   except that when I get there they're in a booth like a cozy booth right so that's cozy

01:10:53   yes I requested cozy we requested that well it was our anniversary there the

01:10:57   Waitress was under the impression that it was their wedding anniversary because we told her it was

01:11:03   We told her what did we tell her did we go ten? I think we went ten we went ten we told the the

01:11:10   Server that it was our big ten-year anniversary, and we wanted something special and oh

01:11:16   Just to be fair we had John's credit card. Yeah, yeah, yeah

01:11:21   John and I have a joint credit card and so this was all on John

01:11:27   I mean he was at the beer bash whatever

01:11:30   It was it was a hundred and fifty dollar. No it was a

01:11:35   $200 bottle of rosé pink champagne pink champagne

01:11:40   It was me and Scott and we told the server that it was our 10th wedding anniversary

01:11:45   And we were celebrating and so it was special just in case you're wondering

01:11:49   third base third base

01:11:53   Is what $200 bottle of pink champagne buys you with your friends money

01:11:57   Continue

01:12:03   Go on

01:12:05   My there's my question is do you think that this would be even vaguely acceptable if it had gone the other way around?

01:12:11   Absolutely fucking that

01:12:16   Like what would have happened to me if any and you doing it? Yeah

01:12:22   Why is that bad the San Francisco it's Harry didn't starlight now

01:12:26   Anything goes

01:12:29   Right and me and Scott present you with a $200 champagne bill that you didn't get any of the fucking champagne

01:12:35   I would have been livid

01:12:37   I

01:12:39   Would have been livid but you know you abandoned me and I had Scott and we manufactured this entire story

01:12:46   Didn't we get our picture taken?

01:12:48   Did I think we got our picture taken?

01:12:51   And I feel like we have to go back this week and have our 11th

01:12:55   Yeah, I pretended like I pretended like I didn't remember that we got a picture taken. It's been in my wallet for the last year

01:13:00   Amy Jane Gruber

01:13:05   Well, the other weird part too is it took me a while to get filled in because it wasn't like they came in and they

01:13:15   Said John John come over. We're pretending to be newlyweds

01:13:17   No, we hit that shit cuz we knew we so I came over and gave her a nice kiss and in a waitress is like

01:13:22   It was very

01:13:26   Confusing it made me feel like they were like, you know

01:13:29   And this is sort of that seems like the swanky lounge place where you know, if you're with somebody you're a canoodle

01:13:34   I think we were in a booth where we had to canoodle. It was a canoodle booth

01:13:38   But she gave me the waitress gave me a look like I was you know

01:13:41   Giving my wife a kiss in church or something, you know, like and then of course in hindsight

01:13:45   I said I realized why she gave me the look.

01:13:48   - Scott and I cocked at the story.

01:13:50   It was kind of sad that we were there by ourselves

01:13:52   and it seemed weird and we were young and so youngish.

01:13:57   - We made, yeah, we had a good time.

01:14:00   - We had a story. - We watched the sunset.

01:14:02   - We did watch the sunset, that was weird.

01:14:05   - Which you know, Harry Denton's Starlight Lounge,

01:14:07   room, whatever, is if you've never been there,

01:14:09   it's one of my favorite places because you go there

01:14:12   and you're like, oh, it's a nightclub, whatever,

01:14:14   And then you go during the, like when it's still light out.

01:14:16   And like not only are like the couches kind of

01:14:19   and the carpets threadbare,

01:14:21   but literally the servers, dresses,

01:14:23   and tuxedos are also threadbare.

01:14:26   Like just, it's just cheesy and gross, but great.

01:14:31   - It's nothing for the light of day.

01:14:33   I mean, it's nighttime lighting.

01:14:35   - I think we have time for a little bit more.

01:14:39   The one other story.

01:14:41   - Oh, that's awesome.

01:14:43   Is that a cue?

01:14:44   Whoever did that.

01:14:45   I hear Merlin giggling upstairs.

01:14:47   Does anyone hear Merlin?

01:14:49   It's all, this is all Merlin.

01:14:51   Whatever's happening is all Merlin.

01:14:54   Montero?

01:14:55   Seriously?

01:14:56   I hear you, Jesse.

01:14:59   Adam has recently gotten into e-cigarettes.

01:15:02   Honestly, you should see them cracking up over here.

01:15:09   It is the funniest thing.

01:15:10   They're basically bending over.

01:15:12   They're giggling like school children.

01:15:14   I just want to tell the...

01:15:16   This is nerve gas, right?

01:15:18   I feel sleepy.

01:15:20   I feel very sleepy.

01:15:22   So this, the other night this is what happened to me.

01:15:24   I go back to the hotel. It was just Sunday night.

01:15:26   Oh, let's not talk about this.

01:15:28   Come on, this is our marriage. I mean, we're going to talk about our marriage right here?

01:15:30   Well, this is the last item and then it's all worked out.

01:15:32   It's all good. I mean, it's fine.

01:15:38   Look, the tag will just disappear from Vesper.

01:15:40   So we got separated. It was actually Paul who had walked Amy back to the hotel first.

01:15:46   She was tired and I came back a little bit later. And it was a little late. I was a little

01:15:52   ready to hit the sack and I go to open the door.

01:15:54   He means drunk.

01:15:56   And the chain is on the fucking door. And I wasn't that...

01:16:01   Wait, by separated you mean physically, not like you didn't call it quits.

01:16:05   I had told her not to put the chain on the door. That's...

01:16:10   I did not listen.

01:16:13   And so I thought, well, this has got to be a solvable problem.

01:16:16   I will call her.

01:16:17   And I could open the door an inch because my card worked.

01:16:19   You know, it was open two or three inches.

01:16:21   And I knocked a couple times and there was no response.

01:16:23   So I called her and I could hear her phone.

01:16:26   What's my ringtone?

01:16:28   It is, for me, her ringtone for me is one toke over the line.

01:16:34   I could hear the sweet tunes of one toke over the line and she didn't come.

01:16:40   And so I started shouting, "Amy!

01:16:43   Amy!

01:16:44   Amy!"

01:16:45   Nothing.

01:16:46   I don't know.

01:16:47   And I thought, well, I could go to the front desk, but that seems a little bit responsible.

01:16:53   I could probably bust this fucking chain.

01:16:57   And I-

01:16:58   I was very sleepy.

01:16:59   It turns out the hotel chains are actually pretty strong.

01:17:03   I kind of hurt my shoulder.

01:17:04   And that's when the hotel security guy came up.

01:17:09   And he says, "I'm surprised that we've had a noise complaint."

01:17:14   And I said, "This is my room and my wife's sound asleep inside

01:17:21   and the chain is on the door."

01:17:23   And I think at first he was a little bit put off.

01:17:27   He seemed to be treating me as maybe like a drunk guy

01:17:30   He was just randomly lost in the hotel making a terrible noise.

01:17:33   Weird assumption.

01:17:35   Right, but then he could see that I had the door open and so it really looks like I've

01:17:39   got a room key and he says, "Can I see your ID?"

01:17:41   And I showed him my driver's license and it checked up against the room number.

01:17:45   And then here's the best part.

01:17:46   He gets on his little walkie-talkie and he just goes, "Code 47."

01:17:54   And then he gives the room number.

01:17:55   And that's all he said.

01:17:56   He didn't say anything else.

01:17:57   He didn't say there's a guest, it's chained.

01:17:59   just had code 47 and then a minute later this big seven foot guy I mean bigger

01:18:04   than chalk big fucking guy comes with the biggest set of bolt cutters I've

01:18:09   ever seen and without saying a word or even looking at me just snips the chain

01:18:15   and then he turns around and walks away

01:18:19   problem solved I've been a minute later I'm sleep now here's code 47 here's my

01:18:26   Question your wife is passed out and you're drunk outside the door

01:18:31   That's a code

01:18:33   47 here's my question for you three what other of those codes like what do you think codes one through 46 are?

01:18:40   here's here's the thing I think I think the hotel had 46 codes and

01:18:45   Then you showed up you showed up right so code 47. It doesn't there's not even like a words for it

01:18:53   There's just a picture of you going

01:18:55   Like, all right, John Gruber's in town.

01:18:59   No, this hotel definitely has a file on us.

01:19:02   I mean, the Gruber's are never staying at this hotel again.

01:19:08   Code 47.

01:19:09   Code 46, this guy walked out of the room naked because he thought he was going to the bathroom.

01:19:15   Oh, John's had a code 46.

01:19:17   Yeah, so have I.

01:19:19   Look, we've all code 46ed, right, you guys?

01:19:22   Come on.

01:19:23   Oh, you've all been code 46.

01:19:24   John's had it twice.

01:19:25   twice. Does the code number change if when you've locked yourself out of the

01:19:36   room thinking it was the bathroom but it's actually the room then you then go

01:19:40   on because the whole reason you got up was you had to pee that you go and

01:19:45   politely so as not to make a mess pee on one of the newspapers that they've laid

01:19:50   out for a guest to absorb it. Is that a different code number or is that's a

01:19:54   Wait, did you 46 it? I have never done that no no

01:19:57   Well, they need to bring a new newspaper at that point, so it needs a different number

01:20:03   And is that different is that different from or let's say we got a 46 with the 24 up on the 14th floor

01:20:11   so that's one that's what let's say you're in the hall and let's say you're asleep and

01:20:17   Your style of peeing is to casually walk down the hall as if you were looking at

01:20:24   museum pictures on the wall but the whole time just pissing everywhere do

01:20:30   you think that's a different code I'll bet you know that code no no you know

01:20:36   that code no I'm a newspaper peer yes you you've peed on somebody else's

01:20:42   newspaper right hey it was somebody else's we're being honest we're being

01:20:48   honest I like none of these people newspaper pretty sure it was in it I'm

01:20:52   I'm pretty sure it wasn't a WWDC, so I think it's pretty safe.

01:20:55   But now I'm worried that somebody's done it to somebody else here.

01:20:58   There's a guy out there who's woken up to a wet newspaper and he thinks it's me.

01:21:03   Ladies and gentlemen, this is the particular genius, in all honesty, the particular genius

01:21:08   of John Gruber started, let's say 75 minutes ago, 15 minutes too long, that's fine, started

01:21:15   75 minutes ago, talking about like,

01:21:18   nuanced, thoughtful reactions

01:21:22   to the new Apple announcement,

01:21:24   finishing now, talking about peeing on a newspaper.

01:21:28   Honestly, can we clap for that?

01:21:30   That is amazing.

01:21:32   That is my kind of guy.

01:21:34   Next time at the Starlight Lounge, it's me and you, baby.

01:21:37   - Hey, hey, hey, hey.

01:21:40   It's our 11th anniversary, Scott.

01:21:43   I want to do some thanks here.

01:21:45   I would like to thank everybody here at Mezzanine,

01:21:48   on the staff, this has been a great event.

01:21:50   This is here for our bartenders.

01:21:54   I want to thank Jessie Char for organizing the event,

01:22:00   she really was a great help.

01:22:01   I would like to thank everybody,

01:22:06   all of my friends at Mule Radio,

01:22:08   the last year doing a talk show with them has been great.

01:22:11   Here's to many more years.

01:22:13   Thank you.

01:22:13   In particular, I must thank, I cannot thank enough

01:22:18   at Mule, Caleb Sexton, who handles audio.

01:22:22   He's tracking the audio for this.

01:22:25   He does the editing of every episode of the podcast.

01:22:28   Anybody listen to the show last week?

01:22:31   Do you guys like the ending?

01:22:33   Thanks to Caleb Sexton.

01:22:35   Great, great editor, and he really is

01:22:39   a tremendous help to the show.

01:22:40   I really don't know, I'd be lost without him.

01:22:42   I wanna thank my guests.

01:22:43   I wanna thank Guy English.

01:22:45   (audience applauding)

01:22:47   Guy has his blog, kickingbear.com,

01:22:52   but he's also got a great Mac app.

01:22:54   He's done with my friend Chris Parrish

01:22:56   at his software company, Aged and Distilled,

01:22:58   and the app is Napkin.

01:23:00   It's a great Mac app.

01:23:02   (audience applauding)

01:23:04   I wanna thank my wife, Amy Jane.

01:23:07   (audience applauding)

01:23:10   for everything

01:23:12   damn straight

01:23:13   uh... scott simpson

01:23:15   funny man

01:23:19   merlin man adam lisa gore what a treat

01:23:23   always you could find me at uh... find my website code forty seven dot rapey

01:23:29   look me up

01:23:33   uh... and

01:23:34   best of all thanks to all of you for attending really this is such a thrill

01:23:37   to do this in front of you. Thank you for listening to the show. Thank you for being

01:23:41   here and I'll see you next time.

01:23:44   [APPLAUSE]

01:23:48   [ Applause ]

01:23:53   [ Silence ]