The Talk Show

19: Ant-Covered Candy Bar, with John Moltz


00:00:00   It's getting time. It's getting close. Can you feel it's getting time to put the Yankee logo

00:00:04   up on Daring Fireball? Oh, was there baseball on last night? There was a little baseball on last

00:00:09   night. Oh, oh, okay. Huh. How'd that go? It was the most exciting game I've ever seen.

00:00:16   I was watching it. You say that every year. You know what, though? That really was. I mean,

00:00:24   and everybody's just going to already just stop listening to the show.

00:00:30   We're going to have to cut this out. I don't know. But what happened is that Alex

00:00:35   Rodriguez, the Yankee everybody loves to hate, even Yankee fans, all often, who has

00:00:40   been having a horrendous slump in the postseason, was due up with his team down.

00:00:47   The Yankees down by one run with one out in the ninth inning. When

00:00:53   When Rodriguez was due up and he didn't come out of the dugout and I saw somebody

00:00:59   else, I really had this moment where I thought, "Am I having a stroke?"

00:01:02   Because it didn't make any sense.

00:01:03   Like, I was all ready to be sick watching Alex Rodriguez, who's been striking out

00:01:07   like – he's been striking out like Bugs Bunny like two times per at-bat.

00:01:11   Like, he'll get six strikes and then all of a sudden two outs and one at-bat because

00:01:15   he struck out twice.

00:01:16   I'm sick about it because here he is up with one out and he's been striking out

00:01:21   every time he's up.

00:01:22   And he doesn't come out of the dugout.

00:01:24   I really thought maybe I was having a stroke or something, or maybe the game at the bar,

00:01:29   maybe they had it on a TiVo or something and somebody back there had rewounded or something.

00:01:34   Couldn't believe it.

00:01:36   Didn't understand it.

00:01:37   You know, my theory, people will often ask about you, is how you could be a fan of the

00:01:45   Yankees and the Cowboys and also be a fan who are, you know, perennial winners and also

00:01:52   be a fan of Apple for years when Apple was down in the dumps.

00:01:57   And I figured this out years ago is that the reason that you're fans of all these organizations

00:02:04   is not because they're winners or losers.

00:02:07   It's because that you get into more arguments by being fans of those organizations.

00:02:12   Yeah, how does my wife put it? My wife puts it that I'm drawn to the teams that...

00:02:19   They're lightning rods.

00:02:20   I guess. Something like that. She has a good way of putting it, though. Some kind of curse

00:02:24   word.

00:02:25   Yeah, I was going to say. There must be a... I bet there's an F bomb in there.

00:02:30   Right. No, I've told this story before, I believe on the show, but it was probably a

00:02:35   long time ago, so you can always repeat it. That it used to be, in the early years, and

00:02:40   And I've always done this is a daring fireball when the Yankees get into the – by the time

00:02:46   they get to the second round of the postseason, the league championship series, if they're

00:02:48   still in it, then I change the logo on daring fireball to the Yankees logo.

00:02:54   And in the first half of the decade of writing daring fireball, the emails I used to get

00:03:00   were I can't believe you're a Yankees fan.

00:03:06   And like Apple, you should – why don't you like Microsoft, right?

00:03:09   The Yankees equal Microsoft.

00:03:10   I can't believe it.

00:03:11   So it did not compute.

00:03:14   Now though, the last couple of years when I put it up, the emails I get are, "Of course

00:03:19   you're a Yankees fan.

00:03:20   You love Apple, you asshole."

00:03:22   Right?

00:03:25   And to me, see, and I see it like you do.

00:03:28   It's not necessarily about the winning.

00:03:31   It's about the...

00:03:34   I was a Yankees fan all through the '80s when the Yankees were...

00:03:37   I was like what the '90s were to Apple.

00:03:41   It was a dry period.

00:03:43   Famously, the great Don Mattingly, fantastic ball player of my childhood for the Yankees,

00:03:49   never won a postseason game.

00:03:50   It was a long, dry stretch for the Yankees, but I still like them.

00:03:56   The appeal was still there.

00:03:58   So, you feel you have suffered?

00:04:01   Oh, definitely.

00:04:03   I suffer.

00:04:04   I would say the two years we've gone since the last World Series have been terrible.

00:04:12   That's your suffering?

00:04:13   Yeah.

00:04:14   We didn't win the World Series.

00:04:15   We didn't get out of the first round.

00:04:17   Or did we go to the league championship series in 2010?

00:04:20   We might have.

00:04:21   I know Texas beat us in 2010 and then Detroit beat us last year.

00:04:25   Try being a Mariners fan.

00:04:28   I do.

00:04:29   I feel bad for you guys.

00:04:30   But you've got Ichiro.

00:04:31   You've got to be rooting for the Yankees.

00:04:33   No.

00:04:34   No, I'm not rooting for the Yankees, but I do root for Ichiro.

00:04:37   So you want the Yankees to lose, but Ichiro to go like 4 for 4.

00:04:40   Exactly.

00:04:41   Did you see the play he made the other day where he danced?

00:04:44   They called it like the Matrix.

00:04:47   He got thrown out at home.

00:04:48   What is the baseline rule there, though?

00:04:51   I don't know.

00:04:53   It seems like he didn't go ridiculously far out of the baseline, but he sure went out

00:04:58   of the baseline.

00:04:59   Yeah, but I don't know.

00:05:01   I'm not quite sure how that works with the running out of the baseline.

00:05:03   It was pretty amazing piece of acrobatics though.

00:05:08   It also reminds you of how baseball is fundamentally almost like – the basics of it are like

00:05:13   a children's game, like tag.

00:05:15   I mean literally, you're safe if you're touching this thing, but if you're not touching

00:05:20   it and you're tagged by the ball, you're out.

00:05:22   It's like a children's game in some ways.

00:05:24   That play at home plate was exactly like a playground play.

00:05:28   He's like dancing around on a plate, jumping around.

00:05:31   You may not have seen some of the highlights.

00:05:35   When he started here, they showed a lot of highlights of stuff that he did in Japan.

00:05:40   There was one pitch that literally hit the dirt in front of the mound and bounced up.

00:05:47   It was clearly a ball.

00:05:49   It was ridiculous because it hit the ground before it hit the ground in front of the home

00:05:54   plate, bounced up, and he hit it for a hit.

00:05:57   He does.

00:05:59   He's like a trick shot artist.

00:06:01   They were saying on the, was it the TV or radio, but anyway, one of the Yankee broadcasts,

00:06:06   they were saying that the other day that the most entertaining thing to do before the game

00:06:11   is to watch Ichiro do batting practice.

00:06:14   And that Jeter often just sits there and right before each pitch, like a fraction of a second

00:06:20   before the guy throwing batting practice throws the pitch, Jeter will say, "Short right,"

00:06:25   and he'll hit it to where Jeter says.

00:06:27   go deep left and he'll pull it or push it to deep left up the middle and he hits one

00:06:33   up that he just is he's like a trick shot artist.

00:06:38   You see the article I linked to about the way he takes care of his bats?

00:06:40   Yeah, I had seen that.

00:06:42   Yeah.

00:06:43   I mean, I've seen that before.

00:06:44   It reminds me the thing that came to mind is to me like cinematically is that he seems

00:06:51   like Quentin Tarantino's envisioning of a baseball player.

00:06:56   Yeah.

00:06:57   Right?

00:06:58   Like the way Tarantino knows how to properly fetishize a samurai sword.

00:07:04   Like, that's the way Ichiro takes care of his bats.

00:07:08   Except, I guess, in the Tarantino version, then there'd be a barefoot woman running

00:07:13   her feet on the bat.

00:07:14   It's too bad he's a little bit—he's a little reclusive.

00:07:18   Ichiro?

00:07:19   Yeah.

00:07:20   Yeah.

00:07:21   I'd like to know more about his day-to-day life.

00:07:26   One last thing on the baseball.

00:07:27   Here's the thing.

00:07:28   You're a good, true American Yankee hater.

00:07:32   You've got to be an A-Rod hater.

00:07:39   How do you feel about last night's game?

00:07:44   That's pretty good.

00:07:45   It's conflicting.

00:07:47   And the other thing is Ibanez was also a Mariner and a beloved Mariner for years.

00:07:53   So from that regard, that was nice.

00:08:01   It does my heart good to see A-Rod go down in flames.

00:08:05   Interesting.

00:08:06   But not Ibanez and Etiro.

00:08:09   No, I said, yeah, right.

00:08:11   Well those guys left on much different terms.

00:08:15   Everybody has suffered with enough sports talk.

00:08:17   Let's get the real show started.

00:08:18   Let's talk about our kids now.

00:08:25   So Windows 8 is imminent, right?

00:08:31   It's coming this month.

00:08:33   Yep.

00:08:34   Two weeks.

00:08:36   And we still…

00:08:38   No pricing on the surface.

00:08:42   Which is supposed to come, I believe, on midnight on the 29th, if I'm not mistaken.

00:08:48   I believe that is correct.

00:08:50   Which is 18 days from today.

00:08:55   Do you think they're taking a chance with the midnight thing?

00:08:58   Because the midnight thing, it only works if you're going to have lines.

00:09:05   Apple's never done it.

00:09:06   They've never done the midnight thing.

00:09:10   But if they did, you know people would be lined up.

00:09:13   They get people lined up at midnight even when it's not coming out until 9 in the

00:09:16   morning.

00:09:18   But if you have a midnight opening and there's just one comic book guy there…

00:09:23   Well, I was thinking of going up to Seattle to the local Microsoft store to see what was

00:09:33   going on.

00:09:34   So, maybe it'll all be curious onlookers.

00:09:39   I think that the pressure that they're under is astounding.

00:09:43   I'm really kind of in awe.

00:09:48   I'm a little detached from it, right?

00:09:49   Because it's like we're not invested in Microsoft and Windows.

00:09:56   I mean, I haven't used a Windows machine even just

00:09:58   to check my email or something in I don't know how long.

00:10:03   But I'm definitely intrigued by Windows 8.

00:10:05   We've both written a lot about it this year.

00:10:07   But the thing I find more interesting is like the story for the company and just how important

00:10:15   this is for them.

00:10:18   And how close to the wire they seem to be playing it.

00:10:21   It seems very weird to me that there's no pricing yet.

00:10:25   No pricing on the surface.

00:10:26   I guess there is pricing for Windows 8 itself.

00:10:30   There is pricing for Windows 8.

00:10:31   I forget what it is.

00:10:33   And it is also, it also seems to me to still be up in the air just exactly what the relationship

00:10:38   is between Surface tablets and the third party tablets that are going to be running the,

00:10:44   I guess exact same OS. And the one thing I noticed this week is they popped up all over

00:10:51   Philadelphia just sometime within the last, sometime within this week is on all the bus

00:10:58   Well, almost all the bus stops I've seen.

00:11:01   Both sides is Surface ads and they're really nice.

00:11:05   Tim Cynova Yeah.

00:11:06   And the TV spot that they had was pretty good too.

00:11:09   Dave

00:11:25   No, they what the hell's he doing right now? So the loop has I think I think I can't now

00:11:33   I can't remember but and they're either good ads there but they definitely it definitely

00:11:40   seems to me though that Microsoft is not soft pedaling on the competition with their OEM

00:11:48   providers. You know what I mean? Like they're not like the surface is not just a gimmicky

00:11:53   look we're just going to set the bar here and I guess what I should say it's not their

00:11:58   nexus right like the nexus phones at least where the nexus phones are these reference

00:12:04   phones put out by Google and nobody really buys them they're not big selling devices

00:12:11   they're just sort of like here's a reference device for the new version of Android now

00:12:14   you go make the ones that are going to sell in big numbers it's not like that like this

00:12:18   This is something that Microsoft really intends to really sell.

00:12:23   I think Microsoft has already done more advertising for the surface than Google has done for Nexus.

00:12:28   Tim Cynova And I think there was an interview with Ballmer

00:12:31   with maybe some investors yesterday that came out and he was talking about how this is really

00:12:37   a fundamental change in how they do business.

00:12:39   So it was pretty open about it.

00:12:40   Tim Cynova Yeah.

00:12:41   And his letter to the shareholders this year sort of didn't even really hint at it but

00:12:46   strongly suggested that they're going to take more of a

00:12:50   more of this approach as time goes on

00:12:54   which i think it is really interesting

00:12:57   it is interesting it's hard to see how that works out any better than

00:13:01   when apple was licensing the mac OS

00:13:04   right because i kind of think that you've got you can't have your cake and

00:13:08   eat it too

00:13:09   yeah i mean you know maybe the the the amount of evidence over the last you

00:13:13   know, the two decades of the industry is too little. And it's, it's not, it's not wise

00:13:19   to draw conclusions from a small sampling size of companies that have attempted this.

00:13:25   But it seems to me, though, that the evidence suggests that you should make a choice, you're

00:13:29   either going to do it the Apple way, and do your own OS that you use on your own devices

00:13:36   and do everything yourself, or do it the old Microsoft way where you're just licensed this

00:13:40   OS or you know like Android. And you can debate the fact that Google doesn't seem to have

00:13:45   made any money on Android yet but it has certainly been successful in terms of getting people

00:13:50   to use it by licensing it. Although I guess that with the Nexus they're sort of toeing

00:13:57   the other line. But they don't make any money on that, right? Whereas Microsoft is seemingly

00:14:01   the whole point of Surface is that they want to get, they want money. They want to make,

00:14:06   They see how much money Apple is taking from PC sales with the iPad and they want in on

00:14:12   that.

00:14:13   Yeah, they seem to be very open about saying we're going to be doing business more like

00:14:17   Apple does business in the future.

00:14:19   Right.

00:14:20   Without mentioning Apple, that seemed to have been what Balmer said in the letter to the

00:14:25   shareholders.

00:14:28   It was the Verge that had the link to the Windows 8 ad.

00:14:32   I was thinking the Loop had the link to Apple's iPod.

00:14:35   Ah, gotcha.

00:14:36   Gotcha. We should talk about that too. I saw that ad at the Apple event. You know what

00:14:44   it reminded me of? It reminded me in a good way of the classic, one of my all-time favorite

00:14:50   Apple ads. It's a classic from like '99 or so. It was when they had the colored IMAX,

00:14:57   the big CRT ones. And it was the Rolling Stones, "She Comes in Colors." Remember that ad?

00:15:04   Yeah, oh yeah, vividly.

00:15:07   Good song, and the animation was just hypnotic,

00:15:11   because it was that infinite white background of whatever

00:15:17   that universe is where Volkswagens and Apple computers

00:15:20   live, and just this endless stream of IMAX shooting

00:15:27   on top of each other, right?

00:15:29   Yeah.

00:15:30   I always thought you could do an alternate version.

00:15:32   I always thought it'd be funny to do a parody where

00:15:34   did that and watch them smash on the ground.

00:15:37   [Laughter]

00:15:38   >> I guess it's not really a throwback because the iPod ads have sort of consistently been

00:15:44   like that.

00:15:45   >> Yeah, I think so.

00:15:46   >> For a while.

00:15:47   >> Every time that they have a generation of them that's about like a five different

00:15:51   colors to choose from.

00:15:53   >> Yeah.

00:15:54   They don't really do a lot of iPod advertising anymore.

00:15:56   They used to do a lot more.

00:15:57   Obviously, it was a much bigger deal.

00:15:59   And it seems like this is enough of a change to the lineup that they feel like, "Okay,

00:16:05   we should do.

00:16:07   We should promote this."

00:16:08   Because people should know that they might want to think about going out and updating

00:16:13   their iPods now.

00:16:15   Right.

00:16:17   So you said that I will have that in the show notes or at least I will endeavor to have

00:16:21   all these ads in the show notes.

00:16:23   So The Verge had the Surface TV ad.

00:16:27   But no pricing.

00:16:28   No pricing. 18 days.

00:16:32   I would love to know what the thinking is on that. Is the thinking that they really

00:16:36   don't know yet, is the thinking that if they don't know or they can't say or they're still

00:16:44   under pressure like that there's that they have this like let's say really let's say

00:16:48   $3.99 in mind and they're hearing from these OEMs that are just screaming at them that

00:16:53   we do not you can't sell this thing for $3.99 because we're selling this thing for our thing

00:16:57   for $4.99 or $5.99. You can't do this to us. So there's internal pressure that there's

00:17:05   people at Microsoft saying, "Look, we've got to raise the price on this to make it

00:17:08   more – put it more in line than that."

00:17:11   Or is it that – I could see it that way. The other way I could see it is that they

00:17:16   have a low price in mind or not like radically low, not like crazy low, I don't think.

00:17:21   But they have a low price in mind and they want to save it for the last minute as a big

00:17:26   surprise because they, I think that they know.

00:17:29   Well that's the thing.

00:17:31   They better have a relatively low price because at this point if they come out with something

00:17:36   that's not, it's gonna be, it's not gonna be good.

00:17:40   It's the needle on the record coming off.

00:17:46   It's fascinating to me and it's, to me, it used to.

00:17:51   It's fascinating, partially just because it's so not.

00:17:54   No. And it's also unpredictable. And Apple product announcements or releases have become

00:18:02   very predictable. And maybe in a way that makes them less exciting to talk about. But

00:18:07   like the way that the – everything about the way that the iPhone 5 came out was exactly

00:18:12   what everybody thought. That there was a big line of dirty hippies outside the New York

00:18:18   5th Avenue Apple Store and they sold a million or two more than last year's and by Monday

00:18:29   you had to wait to get one because they were a little bit constrained and by Tuesday everybody

00:18:35   had found one nitpicky thing to complain about and you know.

00:18:40   And by Thursday, it was a, you know, a jig.

00:18:45   Right, consumer reports wrote something really stupid about it.

00:18:49   Everything was, you know, right, you could have written it all, we could have written

00:18:52   this all in advance and just taken the week off, really.

00:18:55   We would have been like, "Hey, we got it all right."

00:18:59   Whereas, and Windows releases, I think, used to be pretty predictable.

00:19:05   You know, the new one comes out, sales of PCs jump in that quarter.

00:19:10   Lots of people buy it and upgrade their PCs.

00:19:12   People complain about which PCs don't qualify or whatever like that.

00:19:17   And they sell 160 million copies in a year.

00:19:22   I don't know how this one's going to work out.

00:19:23   Yeah, I know it is.

00:19:30   Not even them.

00:19:31   While we're on it--

00:19:32   and this is sort of a side topic--

00:19:34   But I forgot to ask about this at the event last month with iTunes 11, which I still think

00:19:48   one of the weirder things about that event was that they previewed iTunes 11, even though

00:19:52   it's not coming out until I think they said November.

00:19:57   I thought I saw this morning the end of October.

00:20:00   I thought they had said October.

00:20:01   Well, there's still no developer beta.

00:20:04   new versions of iTunes, there's a beta available to registered, I guess even iOS developers

00:20:11   too, because of the you know, the way that you do stuff, you know, with iOS devices through

00:20:15   iTunes, still no beta. But the thing that went unsaid was, what does it mean for Windows?

00:20:23   Like I presume that there's going to be a Windows 11, I mean, a Windows version of iTunes

00:20:26   11 that they're not dropping that and you need it. I mean, like, because they're still

00:20:30   selling all these new iPods and iPods don't have Wi-Fi. There's no iCloud. You can't do iTunes

00:20:36   match with an iPod Nano or a Mini. So you still need iTunes. So I presume that they're getting

00:20:44   iTunes 11. And it's a totally new interface. It really is. I mean, it really is the famed,

00:20:54   long-awaited, total rewrite of iTunes. I mean, whether it's rewritten under the hood or not,

00:20:58   who knows, but the interface certainly is.

00:21:00   How much more work was that for them to do that for Windows?

00:21:06   And everybody's always, you know, Apple's Windows software has never made people happy.

00:21:11   I mean, I've never heard anybody who uses Windows say, "You know what I love? I love iTunes."

00:21:16   Right?

00:21:18   And it seems like they've stopped developing.

00:21:20   You're right. They've just silently forgotten that.

00:21:23   Chrome has taken… Chrome has done everything that Safari for Windows was ever imagined

00:21:30   to do, just to be a fast, modern, WebKit Windows browser. I think Safari for Windows was really

00:21:42   another crickets chirping type thing. So I'm really curious about the Windows version of

00:21:50   iTunes 11. And the other thing too is I presume, but nobody's said anything when we're in or

00:21:55   that they're just going to ignore the whole Metro thing, that it's going to be a desktop

00:22:02   app, and it will only run on the Intel version of Windows 8. And any of these, you know,

00:22:10   something like the Surface, the first Surface, the one that's running on ARM and uses the

00:22:14   Windows RT, there will be no iTunes for that. Because I guess, you know, and I guess the

00:22:19   the logic behind that is that like a Windows, like something like the ARM version of Surface

00:22:25   is like another rival post PC device, not a PC. That it's not something that you're

00:22:34   going to sync your iPod to. That the assumption is going to be that everybody buys an iPod

00:22:39   will still have a real PC. But it's, you know, nobody, I haven't seen anybody answer

00:22:45   that.

00:22:46   weird, that's a whole weird area because Microsoft, of course, is shipping full versions of Office

00:22:51   for that.

00:22:52   Right, and Microsoft really...

00:22:53   So, to a certain degree, it still is a desktop.

00:22:57   However it's going to really play out in reality with real people, Microsoft's intention clearly

00:23:02   is that no matter what type of Windows 8 machine you're running, Intel or ARM, whichever version,

00:23:08   they want you using and they think that you're going to like using Metro and that the desktop

00:23:13   is sort of like their version of Classic.

00:23:15   It's a thing you're going to go to for compatibility with old software.

00:23:20   Is that what… are you sure about that?

00:23:23   That that's what they intend?

00:23:25   I don't know.

00:23:27   Because I don't know that I've seen that really expressly said because there's still…

00:23:35   when they make the version of Office is really more of a desktop application.

00:23:40   I guess so.

00:23:41   And I don't know.

00:23:42   Yeah, maybe I'll…

00:23:43   It's not really Metro.

00:23:45   It's not really Metro.

00:23:46   Maybe I'm exaggerating.

00:23:47   Maybe I'm wrong about that.

00:23:48   It seems, yeah, because I think it seems like, I mean, their whole thing is that, no, it

00:23:51   does everything.

00:23:53   And you know, we're not in a post-PC world because you have your PC with you.

00:23:59   Like something, so like maybe something like, let's say, AutoCAD.

00:24:03   They're not pitching AutoCAD on rewriting for Metro.

00:24:07   They're saying, you know, that's a true desktop app and now you, you know.

00:24:11   Right.

00:24:12   Well, maybe. I don't know. But is it going to seem weird, though, if like for consumers,

00:24:17   that the consumers are – if they're expected to stay in Metro most of the time, that iTunes

00:24:21   11 will only run in the desktop mode?

00:24:26   I think the whole thing is weird, personally. I mean, I just don't get it. I don't get

00:24:31   – it doesn't seem like – if you could set the whole thing up so that it very – somehow

00:24:38   switches modes so that you had Metro on your tablet and then when you used it as a desktop

00:24:44   it went back to the desktop and everything ran that way. It would make more sense to

00:24:51   me, but the fact that you, I mean you saw that video from The Verge of me trying to

00:24:56   use, trying to set the screen resolution, right? Or trying to switch orientation, something

00:25:01   like that. It was just a nightmare. Because he had to go on a tablet into the desktop

00:25:08   to change the screen resolution and it was ridiculous.

00:25:11   Didn't he have to do it to change the rotation too or something?

00:25:17   I think maybe it was the orientation.

00:25:19   I guess with Metro it will rotate as you rotate the device but the desktop won't. I don't

00:25:26   know.

00:25:27   Something like that.

00:25:28   - Well, Jesse Siegler, frequent talk show guest

00:25:32   and friend of the show,

00:25:34   do you see what he tweeted the other day?

00:25:40   He's just gone on a record and said he predicts

00:25:42   this whole Windows 8 thing is gonna be a shit show.

00:25:46   I think he said shit show.

00:25:47   - Yep, I think that's exactly what he said.

00:25:51   - I don't know though, I don't know.

00:25:53   I can see it that way, but it's,

00:25:56   It's like I almost refuse to believe that it could be as confusing and convoluted as

00:26:04   it seems to my eyes that it's going to be.

00:26:09   The other thing that it seems clear as we get closer to their release and as I watch

00:26:13   sites like The Verge and Engadget, which get all these things, and I saw one of them, I

00:26:18   forget again, I think it was The Verge, had a little preview review of a Windows 8 tablet.

00:26:25   And it seems like they're all, all of them, it seems, are going with this.

00:26:31   It's a tablet, it's a netbook, it's both.

00:26:34   You know, that it ships with a keyboard and some kind of docking mechanism.

00:26:40   And you undock to use it as a tablet and dock it, and then it's a netbook.

00:26:49   It's a little notebook with a keyboard.

00:26:52   That they're all going in that direction.

00:26:54   Nobody's really going like, I don't think so far.

00:26:58   It is just a tablet.

00:27:03   And there's a lot of them really seem, it seems like all the reviews are talking, you

00:27:07   know, that they say that this is convenient, but it seems like they're really kind of,

00:27:11   like as I call it, grading it on a curve.

00:27:13   And then they all say like in the next sentence that it's like really hard to get it in and

00:27:16   out or one of them, I swear, one of the reviews said it feels like you're going to break it

00:27:21   when you have to take it apart, when you pull it apart.

00:27:25   But just give it a little bit of force and it doesn't actually break.

00:27:29   That's not good.

00:27:30   When they write that it feels like you're breaking it, it really seems like a problem.

00:27:35   Tim Cynova And the pricing is not spectacular.

00:27:38   It was spectacular.

00:27:39   I mean, it's considering – yeah, it was yesterday.

00:27:40   I mean, it was yesterday.

00:27:41   And it's just – I don't know.

00:27:42   I mean, it's – what was it?

00:27:43   It's 700 –

00:27:44   Yeah, it was yesterday and it's just, I don't know, I mean it's, what was it?

00:27:49   Yeah, and you said competitive with what?

00:27:52   And they always say that, and I noticed that, I don't think you quite mentioned that, but

00:27:55   it seems like everybody entering with these touchscreen things, they always say their

00:28:00   prices are going to be competitive.

00:28:03   Well they don't want to see it competing with it.

00:28:05   Right.

00:28:06   They don't want to mention the iPad.

00:28:08   But like you said, what was it?

00:28:10   So it was like $7.99 or something like that?

00:28:12   Okay, so the tablet starts at $600 and with the keyboard it's $750.

00:28:19   Right, and that's not competitive with the iPad because the iPad starts at…

00:28:24   Well, it's a 32 gig so it is… right, it's technically the same price as the iPad but

00:28:33   when you read about it, it's all plastic and this is one of the things where it sounds

00:28:40   like it's going to break when you try and get it in and out of the…

00:28:43   Well, and the other thing too that a lot of them seem to be doing is starting at 32 gigs

00:28:50   and maybe being priced comparable with the 32 gigabyte iPad.

00:28:55   But I don't know that that's quite competitive if you don't have something at the $399

00:29:00   price level as the iPad 2 that's only, I know, only 16 gigabytes.

00:29:05   It's not quite fair, but it is true though that Apple can say you can come in and get

00:29:09   one for $3.99. And I do think I you know, I, I think that's a

00:29:15   huge, I think that's been a huge part of Apple's pricing strategy.

00:29:19   Ever since the iPods went to multiple storage capacities, is

00:29:25   that they price one with too little storage at an at at some

00:29:30   sort of price level that breaks a psychological barrier like

00:29:33   199. So it's under 200 bucks. And then people come in the

00:29:37   store and they're like well hell if I'm gonna spend $1.99 I might as well get the

00:29:41   one with 32 gigs because it's gonna you know I can fit all my music on it like I

00:29:45   really do think that they say Apple sells more 32 gigabyte iPads because of

00:29:53   the 16 gigabyte ones at lower price points then they would if those 16

00:29:58   gigabyte ones weren't even in the store I really do think that that's it's a

00:30:03   a significant boost to iPad sales.

00:30:06   - Yeah.

00:30:09   - And I think everything works like that.

00:30:10   I think cars work like that,

00:30:11   that there's always something,

00:30:13   I'm sure there's a marketing name for it,

00:30:15   but there's something to that.

00:30:18   And I feel like the PC guys who are all starting at 32

00:30:22   and these 599 prices, that that's a real problem.

00:30:26   And it makes them look bad.

00:30:27   - And I don't think that they're gonna have,

00:30:31   on day one, most of the apps that they'll have on day one are going to be desktop apps.

00:30:36   They're not going to be metro apps. So you really aren't going to have the host of applications

00:30:45   that you can get on an iPad on a metro, yeah, I mean on a metro device when it ships. And

00:30:54   Apple didn't have a lot when the iPad shipped. They were able to do, you know, the scaling

00:30:59   from iPhone apps, but that was then. That was two and a half years ago, and it's a different

00:31:06   world now. So, you're basically saying if you really want to run this thing and have

00:31:11   a bunch of apps, you can buy the keyboard. So, it actually is a $750 plastic device,

00:31:20   in which case that's not competing with an iPad, that's competing with a netbook.

00:31:24   Remember netbooks?

00:31:26   That's like a word that is just not.

00:31:30   We had a guy come out to fix our microwave and he had a netbook.

00:31:37   It just looked… because he had to use it to look up PDFs of the repair and the specifications

00:31:48   that came from the microwave vendors.

00:31:50   And it just looked horrible.

00:31:53   horrible. It's running XP. You know what, though? XP. Man, oh man, is that a hit. I

00:32:00   think they got so much mileage out of that. I really do. It's looking back, I mean, that

00:32:05   was absolutely peak Microsoft. That's really where the wheels came off.

00:32:12   But that really hurt in the way, yeah, right. I mean, the fact that it was such a hit and

00:32:16   that they wrote it for so long hurt them.

00:32:17   Right. And I think that the initial netbook, and the initial netbook way when everybody

00:32:22   was netbook, netbook, netbook, and people used to ask Apple, you know, don't you realize

00:32:26   you're doomed without a netbook? Which was not that big a hit, but it was enough of a

00:32:32   hit that it became like, at least in the tech world, a category, right? It's so telling

00:32:40   that what drove those netbooks, the ones that actually did sell was XP, which was like seven

00:32:49   years old at that point and was not designed with those machines when it was created like

00:32:55   XP shipped in like 2001 I think right around there and in 2001 like the smallest PC notebook was you

00:33:02   know by today's standards a brick or at least by quote unquote netbook standards like a real thick

00:33:08   heavy brick again it's kind of telling that like Microsoft's only real foray into super lightweight

00:33:16   stuff that nobody else was doing at the time was an OS that wasn't even designed for it.

00:33:21   Yeah.

00:33:24   I had somewhere else I wanted to go with that, but maybe I should just take a sponsor break.

00:33:30   Oh, you know what I want to talk to after the sponsor break? I'll tell you. I want to talk about

00:33:34   the new iPod Touch. But first, I want to tell you about our first sponsor. It's EchoGraph.

00:33:44   EchoGraph is a universal app for the iPhone and the iPad.

00:33:49   And what you do with it is you make infinitely looping

00:33:53   animated photographs.

00:33:57   It's like adding-- they say it's like adding splashes of video

00:34:00   into photographs.

00:34:01   And so what you get is a photo that looks like it's moving.

00:34:06   And it's almost like a little mini video editing

00:34:09   app like a like a super simple iOS version of something like I don't know

00:34:15   like Final Cut or iMovie and it has you know cool filters and stuff that were

00:34:21   more like a simple consumer version of I don't know After Effects or something

00:34:25   like that or Photoshop it was originally released only for the iPad in June a lot

00:34:33   of their users have asked for an iPhone version and it is just out it is now out

00:34:38   in the iOS, in the iTunes App Store. And it is even already enhanced for the iPhone 5.

00:34:47   So it's perfect. You can shoot 16 to 9 photographs. Fits the screen perfectly. Looks like a video.

00:34:54   And I can vouch for it. It's very, very fun to play with. Very cool sound effects too.

00:34:58   Here, let me fire it up and see if I can. It sounds like the type of sound effects we'd

00:35:04   have in the 80s when you move around the user interface.

00:35:09   Did you play with this app?

00:35:10   I told you they were sponsoring.

00:35:13   >> I didn't get a chance to download it yet because you told me five minutes before the

00:35:17   show.

00:35:20   But I did look at the video and it looks pretty cool because, I mean, it's obvious.

00:35:24   >> Listen to that.

00:35:25   You hear that?

00:35:26   >> It's on iOS.

00:35:27   >> This is like you tap around the user interface.

00:35:28   Listen to this.

00:35:29   >> Yeah.

00:35:30   That's what I was going to say.

00:35:31   You edit with your finger.

00:35:32   I love it. Really, really cool user interface. Very, very cool results. Very, very – it's

00:35:40   just a fun, fun app to play with.

00:35:42   Tim Cynova And you just sort of – you just sort of

00:35:44   rub the area that you want to keep moving.

00:35:46   Steven

00:35:46   And everything else stays static.

00:35:48   And it's just a really nice, attractive user interface.

00:35:51   Very well done.

00:35:51   So check it out.

00:35:52   You can go to echographapp.com.

00:35:58   That's echographapp.com.

00:36:01   Or of course, you can just go to the App Store

00:36:04   and search for Echo Graph.

00:36:06   It's a great app.

00:36:09   Go buy the app and help support the show.

00:36:11   It's really fun.

00:36:12   I vouch for it.

00:36:15   I'm sure it's also a lot of fun on the new iPod touch, which also has a 16.9 display.

00:36:22   Have you seen one yet?

00:36:23   They're now in the stores.

00:36:24   They just started shipping this week, I believe, right?

00:36:27   No, I did not because I'm not that stupid as to buy both an iPhone and an iPod touch.

00:36:34   But I got to play with it at the event last month.

00:36:38   And the thing that I knew, and I knew that everybody would say it when it came out because

00:36:42   everybody at the event was flabbergasted by it is how unbelievably thin and lightweight

00:36:48   the thing is. It is, you know, because everybody who's upgrading their iPhones is like, "Wow,

00:36:54   the new iPhone isn't, I can't believe how light it is compared to my old iPhone. I can't

00:36:57   believe how thin it is." I'm telling you, once you see the iPod Touch, it's like, "Oh,

00:37:01   my iPhone 5 is not that thin and lightweight." You remember before the new stuff with the

00:37:07   previous, you know, one generation ago, the iPhone, the iPhone 4S was the leading iPhone

00:37:14   in the compare it to the older iPod touches. And it always seemed like the iPod touch was

00:37:20   so thin and lightweight. Right? The new iPhone five is it's not quite as thin as those iPod

00:37:27   touch. I think it's like two tenths of a millimeter thicker. And it's a little bit heavier. But

00:37:32   It is roughly though the thickness and weight of the old iPod touches.

00:37:38   Like the iPhone has now gotten to the thinness and weight of the old iPod touches.

00:37:42   The new iPod touch is that much thinner and lighter again.

00:37:49   Like the numbers don't do it justice.

00:37:51   When you just look at the tech spec sheet and it says that the iPhone is 7.2 millimeters

00:37:57   thick and the iPod is whatever.

00:38:01   like as thin as a sheet of paper or something like that. Doesn't – yeah, it just – you

00:38:04   hold it though and you're like, "Ah, this is unbelievable." And it does –

00:38:08   Tim Cynova – Eventually, they'll get so thin that you turn it to the side, it'll

00:38:11   just be a one-pixel line.

00:38:13   Steven

00:38:13   Well, the thing that occurs to me…

00:38:15   You won't be able to see it unless you look at it…

00:38:16   It occurs to me looking at the Verge's review of it, when they took a shot of it from the

00:38:20   side and you see the bottom, is that in the way that Apple was pitching the Lightning

00:38:26   connector as, "Look, one of the reasons we had to get rid of the 30-pin dock connector

00:38:29   is it was limiting how thin the devices could be.

00:38:32   We couldn't make these devices as thin as they are now this year if we were still using

00:38:37   that adapter."

00:38:38   And it occurred to me that, look at the picture from the Verge had of it, that the new limiting

00:38:42   factor is the headphone jack. Like if you look like if you think the iPhone 5 makes

00:38:47   the headphone jack come close to the edges, the new iPod touch, it's ridiculous. And

00:38:54   that makes me wonder if like I really does seem like it's like it's like it's like

00:38:59   the VGA. Exactly. There is the only way they can make it thinner would be make it like

00:39:03   a bulge for the headphone port.

00:39:05   Can you imagine if Apple went with a proprietary…

00:39:09   That's exactly where I was going.

00:39:12   If you think people went ape shit when they got rid of the 30-pin thing, you go one proprietary

00:39:18   thing to another, imagine what would happen if they went with a proprietary headphone

00:39:25   jack.

00:39:27   Or maybe they're just going to do away with the headphone jack.

00:39:30   I guess they could.

00:39:31   How could they do that?

00:39:32   Bluetooth only?

00:39:33   Was that, am I making this up, were they, was there a patent thing recently about a

00:39:40   wireless headset?

00:39:41   Or wireless headphones?

00:39:42   Well, you can do Bluetooth.

00:39:43   I don't know if there's something else you could do.

00:39:45   But the thing is, the difference is, the big difference is that third-party headphones

00:39:53   are way bigger deal than third-party dock connector stuff, I think.

00:39:58   I mean, anybody who's serious about audio has some kind of serious headphones, and people

00:40:03   have noise canceling ones for airplanes. For however many gazillion people use the white

00:40:11   earbuds that Apple gives you, it's unbelievable how many people use headphones. I mean, presumably...

00:40:17   Do you have something else? Do you have something else that you use?

00:40:21   I do. I have a set of Shure, S-H-U-R-E, in-ear things that I use when I'm on... I only ever

00:40:30   use them when I'm on an airplane because they seal against the ear and it really helps drown

00:40:34   out the thing. And they were, I think they cost like 300 bucks or something like that.

00:40:41   But I didn't pay for them. They came in the goodie bag when I was a speaker at Mac World

00:40:46   Expo like three years ago. It's like you don't get paid for speaking at Mac World Expo but

00:40:52   they give you this backpack full of stuff and there's a lot of the stuff is like really

00:40:55   awesome. And I'm like, it's one of those areas where I'll blow money. I blow money on a new

00:41:00   I have a new iPhone every year. I blow money left and right. But there's certain things

00:41:03   that I'm a cheapskate on, and headphones are always one of them. I don't think I've

00:41:07   ever spent personally more than, I don't know, $30, $40 on a pair of headphones. But

00:41:13   the $300 pair of Shure ones that I got as being a speaker at Macworld are—they're

00:41:18   delightful. And I'm like, "Oh, this is why people spend money on headphones."

00:41:22   I had a pair of Shure ones. They kept popping out for some reason. And then I just got the

00:41:26   Bose in ear ones, which are pretty good. I'm not a big audiophile, so I know people don't

00:41:33   really like the Bose.

00:41:34   You know, I take it back. A long time ago, maybe 10 years ago, I bought a pair of Bose.

00:41:38   They weren't the noise cancelling ones because I was too cheap. I bought a pair of Bose over

00:41:42   the ear things.

00:41:43   Yeah, mine aren't ear.

00:41:44   Like the headband thing cracked. And then I got mad that I spent $90 on headphones and

00:41:50   they broke eventually.

00:41:53   That's the problem with headphones. You have them out and you're using them so often.

00:41:57   And mowing the lawn and stuff, and I get it snagged on something. I don't want to spend

00:42:02   $300 on a pair of headphones.

00:42:04   And of course, the ones I got for free have lasted me three or four years old now and

00:42:10   are still brand new. I didn't know that if I paid for a pair, I'd drop them in a

00:42:15   drink or something.

00:42:17   You get such varying opinions about the new Apple headphones.

00:42:20   Yeah. Do you?

00:42:21   Yeah, it seems like some people – I mean for me, they're great.

00:42:27   One way of looking at it is it's a big improvement over the old ones because the old ones were

00:42:30   not very good.

00:42:31   Then the other way of looking at it is, "Oh my god, you can get so much better headphones

00:42:36   for less."

00:42:37   I don't know that you can though.

00:42:38   It seemed like when people said that, it's like –

00:42:39   Okay, they come in the box.

00:42:40   They don't come with – the ones that cost less don't have a microphone.

00:42:43   They don't have the volume and play plus pause button on the clicker.

00:42:49   Right.

00:42:50   Which apparently, I think I read this, the ones in the iPod touchbox don't either.

00:42:57   No, oh no wait.

00:42:59   Yeah, I think I read this yesterday.

00:43:01   But they have the new shape?

00:43:02   So they have the new shape, but they don't have the microphone, and I don't think they have the clicker.

00:43:08   Oh, that's weird.

00:43:09   Which is very strange. That seems to be cheap to get.

00:43:13   Yeah, it seems like a weird thing for them to get cheap on.

00:43:16   Yeah.

00:43:17   I'm not a zealot about, "Hey, just because Apple has a lot of money in the bank, they've

00:43:22   got to split, they've got to give it away or burn some of it."

00:43:26   But every...

00:43:27   No, I'm not either.

00:43:28   But it seems like that seems...

00:43:30   You could build them in such volume that it really...

00:43:32   Right.

00:43:33   The difference isn't that great.

00:43:34   That if you're giving them a pair of headphones anyway, just give everybody the same ones.

00:43:38   I mean, and everybody agrees they're not...

00:43:40   It's not like they're great.

00:43:41   It's not like they're giving you high-end studio headphones.

00:43:47   $300.

00:43:51   So that leads me, though. So you haven't seen the iPod Touch yet.

00:43:54   I have not.

00:43:55   And I'm telling you, when you do, the thing that's going to strike you is that it is radically

00:44:00   thinner and lighter.

00:44:03   And colors.

00:44:04   Well, and colors. But the colors thing is, I think, is secondary to the thinness and

00:44:08   lightness. And I think that that thinness and lightness is so high a priority at Apple

00:44:16   it cannot be overstated. And in hindsight, especially if you look at the last handful

00:44:24   of years of Apple products, that the focus on thinness and lightness, it stands out.

00:44:33   And what sticks out like a sore thumb is the iPad 3, which got thicker and heavier from

00:44:40   from the generation before it. It really sticks out in hindsight because there's like this

00:44:46   relentless model after model, everything gets thinner and lighter and then there's the iPad

00:44:51   which got thinner the first year then suddenly got a little thicker and noticeably heavier

00:44:58   to accommodate the big battery that powers the retina display.

00:45:01   And so that's why I think like the there's two questions people keep asking me about the the the rumored as I call it iPad air

00:45:13   and the two questions are I

00:45:17   Can't believe Apple would release a new device into this in late 2012

00:45:24   That's not retina when everything else has gone retina across the board in iOS

00:45:30   A) and then B) if the new iPod Touch starts at $299, how can the iPad Air cost less than

00:45:42   it? Those are two questions. I've gotten those two questions more, I think, than any

00:45:48   questions I can remember in the history of Daring Fireball. Like, they are so complete

00:45:52   and they're almost phrased word for word the same way from readers.

00:45:55   Well, the iPod Touch starts at…

00:45:59   Right.

00:46:00   Oh, the new one starts at $299.

00:46:01   The new one starts at $299.

00:46:02   The $199 iPod Touch is the year-old model.

00:46:05   Is the previous generation.

00:46:07   Oh, that's right.

00:46:09   So I have answers to both of those things.

00:46:12   So on the Retina front, okay, it's true that everything now is Retina across the board.

00:46:20   The iPad's Retina, the iPhone's Retina, and the iPod Touch is Retina.

00:46:27   But every single new form factor for an iOS device debuted non-Retina.

00:46:33   And so I expect that to be the same for the iPad Air.

00:46:39   And the second thing is I really – that's why – the reason I called it the iPad Air

00:46:44   isn't so much that I think that that's what they're going to call it, although

00:46:46   I wouldn't be surprised.

00:46:47   The only two names I expect them to either use is either call it the iPad Air or just

00:46:52   call it iPad.

00:46:54   And you just know the difference because this is the one that's cheaper and smaller and

00:46:57   thinner and lighter.

00:46:58   But I do think though that the way they're going to pitch it, the appeal of it, isn't

00:47:03   so much about the physical size of it that it's 7.85 inches instead of 9.7 diagonally,

00:47:08   but about thinness and lightness and that it's so much lighter and so much thinner

00:47:14   than any other tablet on the market.

00:47:17   And to make it thin and light, I think it has to be non-retina because it's that everything

00:47:22   about the heaviness and thickness of the iPad 3, given what we know from the iFixit teardowns,

00:47:29   it's about the big honking battery to power it all.

00:47:33   The battery, the larger battery is also for LTE.

00:47:38   Yeah, but look at the...

00:47:41   So my question then is do you think it would be – this is another thing that came up

00:47:47   because yesterday someone suggested –

00:47:50   Yes.

00:47:51   Charles Arthur at the Guardian.

00:47:52   Charles Arthur suggested that it would be Wi-Fi only.

00:47:54   I don't believe that.

00:47:55   I really don't.

00:47:56   I don't think so.

00:47:57   Yeah.

00:47:58   But it could be 3G.

00:47:59   I could believe that.

00:48:02   I do if that would help contribute to the thinness and lightness.

00:48:07   the the existence of the iPhone five, and its thinness and lightness and support for

00:48:14   LTE makes me think that the the iPad Air will have LTE to

00:48:20   Okay, okay.

00:48:23   And you know, so I just don't expect them to say much about the fact that the display

00:48:28   isn't retina, though, I think that there will be nice things to say about it. I think that

00:48:33   I would also think that in the interest of thinness and lightness, I would not be surprised

00:48:38   at all if they go with the new technology that started this year with the iPhone 5 where

00:48:46   the touch sensors are integrated in the glass with the display as opposed to being a separate

00:48:50   layer.

00:48:52   Even though there won't be the retina pixel resolution, the pixels will seem closer to

00:48:57   the surface, which is another big part of the appeal.

00:49:01   I wouldn't be surprised if like the color quality was a lot like the IPS technology

00:49:07   was a lot better than say the 3GS which has that same pixel resolution that it'll be yeah

00:49:14   the resolution won't be great but in other ways the display will be better than previous

00:49:19   non retina iOS displays right it'll still be it'll be a good display just not that high

00:49:25   of a resolution.

00:49:27   I predict, though, if it's not a retina display, that that will be used as a knock against

00:49:34   it.

00:49:35   I think definitely.

00:49:36   People will compare it to the Amazon HD devices and the Kindle HD devices and say, "Apple

00:49:43   blew it by not shipping a retina display."

00:49:45   And then they all, at the same token, will not mention that the Kindle Fire comes covered

00:49:49   in ads.

00:49:52   That's my contribution to this conversation.

00:49:56   my cynicism about the modern state of technology punditry.

00:50:00   Dave Asprey Are the ants on the inside or is it like a

00:50:02   candy bar where they're crawling around the outside?

00:50:05   Tim Cynova They're all over.

00:50:09   Dave Asprey That was the type of science I liked to conduct

00:50:11   as a kid. I loved an ant-covered candy bar. Tim Cynova

00:50:17   Who didn't? Yeah, no, absolutely. Dave Asprey

00:50:18   Because it was always like a special kind of ant, like the tiny ant, not like a regular

00:50:22   size ant. It was like the little mic. Tim Cynova

00:50:24   Well, the big ones are carpenter ants.

00:50:26   They're like wood.

00:50:27   Yeah, they don't want candy.

00:50:28   It's a little like...

00:50:29   But it almost makes it seem like they're the kid ants.

00:50:31   Just like it's kids who eat all the candy in the human world, it's the little kid

00:50:35   ants who like to eat candy in the ant world.

00:50:38   Did you ever try and start an ant war?

00:50:40   No.

00:50:41   How would you do that?

00:50:42   Oh, man.

00:50:43   You'd find two ant hills and then you'd like try...

00:50:44   Lead them to each other.

00:50:45   Yeah, either dig a...

00:50:46   Yeah, basically either dig a...

00:50:49   I don't know.

00:50:50   Or like sprinkles honeybee between them or something.

00:50:54   to get them to find each other and start a battle.

00:50:57   I don't know that we ever successfully did that, but what a horrible thing to do.

00:51:01   But I know that we did pick up an ant from another anthill and take him over to see what

00:51:07   would happen.

00:51:08   I don't remember what the results were, though.

00:51:09   I bet when he was a young child, I bet Dick Cheney was very successful at that sort of

00:51:14   thing.

00:51:15   I bet he was really good at it.

00:51:19   Shooting frogs.

00:51:20   So on the pricing front, on the pricing front, what I think is don't overthink it, right?

00:51:29   Everybody there's this idea that everybody seems to have in their heads that if the new

00:51:32   iPad iPod touch is $299, then how can the iPad Air be less than that if it's bigger?

00:51:41   And I say don't overthink it and a don't overthink it and be smaller is cheaper, like a 13 inch

00:51:50   MacBook is gonna cost less than the 15 inch MacBook the 11 inch MacBook Air is

00:51:55   gonna cost less than the 13 inch MacBook Air smaller is cheaper but miniature is

00:52:01   expensive right it's not just that the iPod touch is not just smaller iPad it's

00:52:08   a miniature miniaturization is expensive right so if you get like a slightly

00:52:14   smaller camera it's maybe it's cheaper but if you get like a little like spy

00:52:19   camera that's more expensive. It's expensive to miniaturize things.

00:52:23   Also the capacity, the starting capacity of the new iPod Touch is 32 gigabytes.

00:52:30   That's true too.

00:52:32   So if it was a 16 gig tablet you'd be in less capacity.

00:52:37   Right, and here's the second case. So let's say that the new iPad Air starts at 249 or even, let's just for the sake of argument,

00:52:46   Let's say it starts all the way at $199 for a 16-gigabyte version, and so it's $100 cheaper

00:52:51   than the new iPod Touch.

00:52:55   So what's the worst-case scenario of the people who think that this is a problem, that this

00:52:59   bigger and therefore more appealing device is also cheaper?

00:53:05   If somebody comes in and was thinking, "Well, I'll buy the iPod Touch, and instead, well,

00:53:11   why don't I just buy this thing?

00:53:12   It's only $199.

00:53:13   I'll save money and get a bigger screen."

00:53:15   Well, guess what? They just walked out of the Apple store buying an iPad. Like, that's

00:53:19   a win. It doesn't matter which one you buy. If you go in the store and buy one of these

00:53:23   things and walk out, Apple counts that as a win. It doesn't matter. If the new iPad

00:53:29   Air completely cannibalizes sales of the iPod Touch, well, that's great because it's an

00:53:34   Apple product doing it. Like, I don't overthink it. As long as people are buying any of them,

00:53:42   It's a win for Apple.

00:53:45   And they're different.

00:53:46   I mean, they're also just different.

00:53:47   Exactly.

00:53:48   Like you cannot put – it doesn't matter how thin.

00:53:51   You cannot shove an iPad Air into your pocket.

00:53:55   I don't think you can put it on your arm when you go running.

00:53:59   There's not going to be an armband accessory that you can –

00:54:06   I hope not.

00:54:08   I bet somebody will do it.

00:54:09   You've seen those people who take movies with the iPad.

00:54:11   I see them every single time we have an event at school and over the summer.

00:54:19   We were at the pumpkin farm last weekend and there were people taking videos of the pig

00:54:25   races.

00:54:26   So that's why I'm a little hesitant to predict that there won't be any armbands.

00:54:31   No, I'm saying there will be.

00:54:34   I'm going to come out strongly in favor of there being – I mean not in favor of

00:54:38   them.

00:54:39   it be like a fanny pack oh but I guess it would be like a reverse fanny pack

00:54:45   though because you'd want to like look down at your belly - yeah that's the

00:54:49   that's the that's the tricky and you know what you would want is you would

00:54:51   you would or like a you would like a beer a mode you'd want to like

00:54:56   orientation lock it upside down so that you could look down at your belly and

00:55:03   it's gonna be a lot of accidents a lot of running because I do I am that's why

00:55:08   I'm hesitant not to predict it because before I actually saw all these people in the real

00:55:14   world using their iPads as cameras, including like you said, video cameras where they're

00:55:20   just walking around with it.

00:55:23   I laughed at the demands that after the original iPad that didn't have a camera, I laughed

00:55:30   at the demands that everybody said this thing needs a camera on the back because I thought,

00:55:34   when the hell is anybody ever going to use it?

00:55:38   I don't think I've used it.

00:55:40   I've used the front-facing camera for FaceTime, but I've never used it.

00:55:44   Right.

00:55:45   The front-facing camera always made total sense to me.

00:55:47   The demand that it have cameras on both sides, you can claim chowder me on it.

00:55:52   I thought it was ridiculous.

00:55:53   I really did.

00:55:54   And again, if I got an iPad that had a broken rear camera, I don't even know if I would

00:55:59   notice it unless I accidentally hit the camera reverse button on the phone.

00:56:07   And I've done that because I call my brother or something, FaceTime my brother, and then

00:56:15   I want to show him my kid sitting there playing.

00:56:17   I want to reach him.

00:56:18   I guess so.

00:56:19   But for the most part, though.

00:56:21   But it's not a huge, yeah.

00:56:22   You would just turn the phone around and use the front-facing camera.

00:56:26   Exactly.

00:56:27   Yeah.

00:56:28   Here, let me, you know what?

00:56:29   Let's just take the second break and do the second sponsor.

00:56:34   Okay.

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00:58:13   and and you're going to be happy

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00:58:20   they're beautiful i think you know

00:58:21   uh... book

00:58:22   nothing's better than pixel art

00:58:26   it makes me wish they came from a state that

00:58:30   you know what and i i uh...

00:58:32   I wasn't going to say this, but I designed one of them.

00:58:36   I did.

00:58:37   I did Colorado.

00:58:38   I did Wyoming.

00:58:41   These are great.

00:58:48   And then they have other ones.

00:58:49   They do have other ones, but they wanted me.

00:58:52   They wanted talk show listeners to know about.

00:58:54   Oh, let me tell you this.

00:58:56   Can't believe it.

00:58:57   I should be shot.

00:58:58   If I had a boss, I would be fired.

00:59:01   They got 10% off for talk show listeners.

00:59:03   You gotta use code.

00:59:04   Here's the deal though.

00:59:05   You gotta use the code "THETALKSHOW".

00:59:07   You know what?

00:59:08   If I hadn't remembered this, we would have had to redo the whole show, John.

00:59:11   We would have had to redo the whole damn show.

00:59:14   10% off.

00:59:15   You get 10% off.

00:59:16   The code is "THETALKSHOW".

00:59:19   And that ends on October 19th.

00:59:21   So I don't know when you, Joe, listener of the talk show, are listening to this.

00:59:25   If it's before October 19th, 2012, you're in luck because you're gonna save 10%.

00:59:30   So, we should stop recording this on RealtoReal.

00:59:33   [laughter]

00:59:34   If we had a digital recorder, it would all be fine.

00:59:37   There should be some way.

00:59:38   Yeah, right.

00:59:39   If we were recording it digitally, we could insert things.

00:59:41   Same thing.

00:59:42   I keep thinking about switching my...

00:59:44   Someday.

00:59:45   ...the blogging client I use from a typewriter to something like a text editor, like on a

00:59:51   computer or something like that, because it's getting...

00:59:53   You should try Blogger.

00:59:54   Blogger is free.

00:59:55   It's getting...

00:59:56   Did you know that?

00:59:57   It's getting frustrated.

00:59:58   to me that when I make a typo, I've got a backspace, backspace, backspace and exit out.

01:00:03   And…

01:00:04   JEFF: White… Do you have a lot of white out?

01:00:06   DAVE and JEFF No. I just… I just use the capital X and…

01:00:08   JEFF You just use X. That explains all those X's that we see on your site.

01:00:14   Man, if you got Hawaii, if you live in Hawaii or you have any relation to Hawaii or if you just

01:00:20   like Hawaii, go get this shirt right now. DAVE Why is that? Because it's awesome.

01:00:25   That's awesome. It's just gorgeous. Yeah, I mean it's a distinct, it's a lovely distinct.

01:00:29   One thing I like, and to me it's always the sign of a class act,

01:00:33   the type of advertiser who actually listens to the show, is that the code is not

01:00:37   talk show. The code is the talk show. Because they know

01:00:41   that I paid a lot of money for that.

01:00:45   So what else is going on this week?

01:00:49   What's your opinion on the iPad pricing?

01:00:53   Oh, I know what I wanted to talk to you about, but what's your opinion on the iPad pricing?

01:00:57   What, what, what, what I think that the Air, whatever you want to call it is going to be?

01:01:02   I'd say, I'm going to go with 250.

01:01:04   Yeah, that's my guess.

01:01:05   I would love it.

01:01:07   They don't have a lot of, they don't have a lot of products that are priced at a 50,

01:01:10   you know, priced right in the middle.

01:01:12   They like, they like the 99, but they have a couple.

01:01:17   Like the Nano starts at $149 and there's something else.

01:01:23   But there's a couple.

01:01:26   That seems to be 16GB, $250.

01:01:30   I think it's got to be one of three things.

01:01:32   Either $199, $249, or $299.

01:01:35   But $299 seems too high.

01:01:39   And I don't think that if it were, I don't think that if, let's say worst case scenario,

01:01:44   the starting price is $299.

01:01:46   I don't think that means, "Oh, this is the end of Apple as we know it because everybody's

01:01:54   going to buy a Kindle Fire or a Nexus 7 instead."

01:02:01   They'd still sell a lot of them at $299.

01:02:03   But I almost feel like though if they started at $299, it would have to be 32 gigs and then

01:02:09   why not just have one that's cheaper in 16 gigs?

01:02:12   I don't know.

01:02:13   Yeah, I don't know either.

01:02:16   Here's the other thing I want to talk to you about, John. I want to talk to you about this thing, and it's like my schtick of the month is what is it about Apple that makes people lose their minds?

01:02:26   And this has always been the case, right? But there was a thing in Forbes this month where a guy called for Tim Cook to be fired.

01:02:39   Well, he did, yeah. He said, and also the way he said it was ridiculous because he said

01:02:46   that Steve Jobs would fire two.

01:02:51   For a 78% year over year increase in stock price, record breaking iPad, record breaking

01:03:01   iPhone and a I think very well received mountain lion update to the Mac and iOS 6 update to

01:03:13   all the iOS devices all in a year and the guy should be fired because there's some scratches

01:03:21   on some of the black iPhones and there's a lot if you shoot right into a light source

01:03:27   sometimes you get a purple fringe on what everybody else otherwise agrees is

01:03:31   the best camera ever to ship in a mobile phone. It's a fire-tune copy.

01:03:41   It's unbelievable. I mean, obviously we're all sick and tired of

01:03:48   people trying to tell us what Steve Jobs would have done. I did foresee it. I mean, I

01:03:53   I think everybody knew that after he died that any hiccup, any minor hiccup along the

01:03:58   way was going to have some people saying this wouldn't have happened if Steve Jobs were

01:04:02   around.

01:04:03   But I have to admit I'm surprised by how vociferous that sentiment is.

01:04:11   Every single time there's anything vaguely less than stellar, not even bad, just like,

01:04:19   You know, that it's all, this wouldn't have happened under Steve Jobs. It's all

01:04:25   over. Like I don't understand, this is the guy, Steve Jobs was the guy who made

01:04:30   the Dalmatian iMac. Right? The flower, what didn't it, they were at the same time,

01:04:37   right? One was Dalmatian spotted and one had flowers, right? Wasn't it flowers on the

01:04:42   other one? Yeah. I don't even, I don't remember the flowered one because when I

01:04:47   saw the Dalmatian one, my eyes went blind. Right? Yeah, I don't remember what the pattern

01:04:55   was.

01:04:56   Why do you think that? And do you think I'm right, though, that Apple makes people write

01:05:01   things that are way more stupid than any other company? Like, I don't think anybody is...

01:05:05   Well, it's hard to say, because we don't follow other things as closely as we follow Apple.

01:05:10   But yes. But I say yes, absolutely.

01:05:15   I don't know Microsoft a little I mean I can't say I'm super close but I follow Google pretty pretty well, too

01:05:23   And I you know, maybe I don't write about him so much but I read an awful lot about him and I can't think of anything

01:05:28   Equivalent to that. Yeah

01:05:34   Well again, like the Cowboys and the Yankees. It's more of a lightning run

01:05:38   It just seems to attract much more attention. And what was the article that that Stewart?

01:05:44   I don't know if it's attention Stewart wrote in the New York Times last week

01:05:47   and then Glenn Fleishman sort of took it apart very very politely you know and

01:05:51   way more politely than you and I can ever bear to do in play it's right do

01:05:57   you remember that article yeah I remember him writing that hold on a

01:06:06   second here we have a little bit of dead space but yeah talk amongst yourselves

01:06:13   Let's be a good time for the listeners at home to sing a little song.

01:06:19   Again, I ask, what is it about Apple that causes people to lose their minds?

01:06:23   It was James Stewart's New York Times Common Sense column titled "Apple's Maps and Jobs's

01:06:31   Shadow."

01:06:33   He even said that the Apple's Maps thing could raise antitrust concerns.

01:06:39   Oh, that was it.

01:06:43   That was it.

01:06:44   And he didn't seem to understand the fact that it was tied to iOS 6 and not the iPhone

01:06:50   5.

01:06:51   And he didn't seem to understand the fact that Apple had made the original apps.

01:06:57   No.

01:06:58   App.

01:06:59   And that it was just changing data.

01:07:00   Right.

01:07:01   And it was changing the app too, but it was...

01:07:04   But the bigger problem was that it was changing data and the data wasn't quite as good as

01:07:07   Google's data.

01:07:08   Right.

01:07:09   You know what?

01:07:10   Here's the other thing too about this and I guess maps is maybe the best example because maybe I think that the people who are arguing

01:07:16   That blank wouldn't have happened if Steve Jobs is around that

01:07:19   They seem most convinced on the maps front that this maps thing would not have happened if Steve Jobs was around

01:07:26   And it a that's boggle it boggles my mind because don't doesn't everybody remember mobile me

01:07:36   Which ships under I think Steve Jobs

01:07:40   But the other thing that people don't seem to realize and I think it was absolutely positively part of Steve Jobs's genius

01:07:47   Was that yes, he absolutely was a perfectionist

01:07:50   He demanded perfection but the other thing was that he had a he was compelled to ship

01:07:59   right like the worst kind of perfectionist is the

01:08:03   obsessive perfectionist who goes away and works and works and works and never releases the damn thing and

01:08:10   Right? And just from my own list of personal obsessions, I think that kind of explains

01:08:18   the significant drop-off in productivity of Stanley Kubrick over the last two decades

01:08:25   of his career. Right? That he was fairly prolific up until The Shining in 1980 and then from

01:08:31   1980 until his death in 1999, he only had two more movies. He had Full Metal Jacket

01:08:36   in '86 or '87 and then Eyes Wide Shut in '99. That he went to six years between movies and

01:08:44   twelve years between movies and that there are all these rumors about other things that

01:08:47   he'd been working on but that he'd kind of, I think, painted himself into this perfectionist

01:08:52   corner where, you know what I mean? He was no longer compelled to ship a movie that it

01:08:59   was more, you know, too focused on it. And Jobs never had that problem. Jobs loved to

01:09:04   ship things, right? It was famously with the early Apple, the early 80s, this mantra of

01:09:11   "real artists ship." And I think that's like the best type of perfectionist to be, that

01:09:17   you're demanding perfection, but you're also demanding to ship now. And so of course he

01:09:23   would have shipped maps. I wouldn't be surprised if he would have shipped it sooner.

01:09:28   Yeah. The other example is Zentanygate, which was not as big a deal as everybody made it,

01:09:36   but still, there was a legitimate flaw in the phone. It's just a flaw that everybody

01:09:44   else had at the same time.

01:09:46   But they did correct it quickly. You could argue that they shipped it a little bit too

01:09:49   soon because it really, when they fixed it, it didn't even take a full year. They fixed

01:09:54   it with the Verizon iPhone 4, which had the antenna that they eventually used for everybody

01:10:04   else in the iPhone 4S, the one with the differently positioned separators between the frame and

01:10:11   the antennas.

01:10:12   But yeah, so they knew they were onto something.

01:10:15   There was like 100% certainty that they were onto something really, really useful for all

01:10:21   of their design goals by moving the cell antennas to the frame of the device.

01:10:28   But it clearly wasn't perfect yet, and they shipped it.

01:10:33   It's an astounding sort of lack of understanding of what actually happened to the company over

01:10:41   the past, over Jobs' whole career, but particularly the time since he came back.

01:10:48   There's this mythology that everything that Apple shipped was perfect.

01:10:56   People like us don't even say that.

01:10:57   Right, exactly.

01:10:58   I say the people who truly understand the company know that the secret was, and again

01:11:03   to bring it back to baseball, nobody gets on base every time they're up.

01:11:09   It's just about having a significantly higher batting average than everybody else.

01:11:16   were right and continue to be right way more often than when they're wrong.

01:11:21   Eric Michael Rhodes Better than one in twelve in the post-season.

01:11:23   Eric Spana Yes, definitely. And the other thing that

01:11:25   they've always been very good at, and to me this is more the warning sign. And to me,

01:11:31   for example, the open letter from Tim Cook on maps is a sign that Apple is doing very

01:11:38   well, is that they've always been very good at being honest with themselves about where

01:11:45   they've fallen short or where they were wrong and correcting it. So obvious

01:11:52   examples, I forget which generation it was, but remember the one hard drive

01:11:56   based iPod, I think it might have been the third generation one, where they

01:12:00   added these four touch sensitive buttons above the click wheel? Instead of...

01:12:06   Oh yeah, yeah I have one of those.

01:12:08   It was a very confusing design and it was... it always confused me because it

01:12:14   somehow it I don't know like which button to push at which time seemed

01:12:19   confusing and everybody had a lot of problems with the fact that they were

01:12:24   capacitive buttons rather than buttons that clicked so that people were like

01:12:29   their skin would touch these buttons and bat you know the wrong thing would

01:12:32   happen songs would pause you'd go back in the menu and you didn't want to just

01:12:36   because your skin touched this button so everybody I think it agrees it was a

01:12:40   worse design than what they had before. And they scrapped it. They went back the next

01:12:45   year to the way it was before. It was like it never happened.

01:12:47   Tim Cynova And the tiny, the buttonless iPod, what's

01:12:52   that called? Shuffle.

01:12:54   Dave Asprey Shuffle, exactly.

01:12:55   Tim Cynova It was another one.

01:12:56   Dave Asprey Right.

01:12:57   Tim Cynova Similarly failed concept.

01:12:58   Dave Asprey Right. Instead of doubling down on it or digging

01:13:01   in or refusing to admit it, it was like, "Okay, that was a bad idea. Let's go back. Here's

01:13:05   all your buttons on your iPod Shuffle again."

01:13:08   I think time after time that they've had that, you know, that they've, you know, when they've made mistakes, they recognize them and move on.

01:13:17   Would you count last year's iPod Nano? I know a lot of people really liked that. I did not, that did not impress me particularly.

01:13:30   The fact that they dropped the video, I think, was really baffling to me.

01:13:36   Yeah, I think it made for... I have one and I do like it, but to me it isn't an iPod Nano.

01:13:45   It's an iPod shuffle with a screen.

01:13:46   It's a shuffle, yeah. It's an iPod shuffle with a screen.

01:13:48   Right. And presumably the screen is significantly, I can only assume, is significantly more expensive

01:13:54   component-wise than the just simple clicky buttons that are on the actual shuffle as

01:14:00   we know it. And the shuffle is about hitting... What does the shuffle sell for now? Like $79

01:14:06   bucks, 69 bucks.

01:14:07   Maybe less.

01:14:08   Right.

01:14:09   But that they can't – I don't think they could – I don't think that they could replace

01:14:13   the shuffle with last year's Nano with the little tiny stamp – posted stamp touchscreen.

01:14:19   Forty-nine – forty-nine dollars.

01:14:20   Well, how much?

01:14:21   Forty-nine dollars for a shuffle.

01:14:22   So there you go.

01:14:23   Yeah, they couldn't – I don't think they could sell that for $49 and make a profit.

01:14:27   So that's why it's not.

01:14:28   But I bought it treating it as a – the way that I treated my previous iPod shuffle.

01:14:33   It's just a shuffle with a screen which is cool because I can read

01:14:36   Like when I'm listening to podcasts I can I don't have to

01:14:40   Take a guess as to whether this is the newest episode of whatever podcast I can read it and say okay

01:14:46   I know that this is it

01:14:48   But yeah, it's another example I think of acknowledging a mistake

01:14:53   Because yeah

01:14:56   It's like it's kind of weird how they've gone back and forth over the years of whether or not the iPod nano is meant to

01:15:02   play video in addition to audio. It's like, "Yes, now you can do video." And then they're

01:15:06   like, "No, now you can't do video. It's just audio." Now they're like this year, it's like,

01:15:11   "Definitely, video." But I agree.

01:15:14   **Matt Stauffer:** I mean, it's kind of neat that they have this

01:15:17   category that is sort of change ever changing.

01:15:18   **Ezra Klein:** Like I think as a basic rule of thumb for evaluating

01:15:20   a company, the two things you really want is you want them to be right most of the time

01:15:26   and you want them to be very good at correcting themselves when they're wrong the rest of

01:15:31   the time. Like it's not realistic to expect a company to be right all of the

01:15:35   time because nobody is. It's impossible. No organization or

01:15:39   individual in history is right all of the time. You know it's the way I think I

01:15:47   and you, I would also say, conduct ourselves as writers. We try to be

01:15:52   right most of the time but if we are wrong about something you just put it

01:15:56   out there make fun of yourself, you know, or apologize if it was, you know,

01:16:00   something that would require it. But you don't dig in.

01:16:04   I did that just the other day.

01:16:06   What was that about?

01:16:07   Well, when I was on that documentary, the Welcome to Macintosh documentary, they had

01:16:12   asked me about – this was back in 2006 when I was interviewed. It didn't come out for,

01:16:18   I think, another year and a half or something. And they asked me, "What would Apple be

01:16:23   like without Steve Jobs?" And this was back in 2006 they were asking this question. And

01:16:28   I said I didn't think that they'd be able to keep up the pace.

01:16:31   This is before the iPhone.

01:16:35   Back when the hits that Apple had were much fewer.

01:16:40   They were doing better with the Mac and they had the iPod.

01:16:44   Yeah, and if it was 2006, it was pre-iPhone.

01:16:47   Yeah, it was pre-iPhone.

01:16:50   So I cut myself a little slack, but still it was not the brightest thing I've ever

01:16:56   said.

01:16:57   I don't see how else to be you know so it's not worth it

01:17:00   Don't look for pundits who are right all of the time look for pundits who are right most of the time and who when they're?

01:17:05   Wrong get on top of it right and it's amazing to me that the New York Times seems to be coming out with a lot of

01:17:12   This stuff it does two pieces within like a couple weeks that were just real groan early really yeah

01:17:19   One thing I found is somebody pointed out some reader pointed out to me the James B

01:17:24   Stewart, the guy, the columnist who, the common sense columnist, what it is. The common sense

01:17:32   columnist is apparently previously written about, he's an Android guy. And I think that

01:17:40   that sort of gets to the heart of the what makes these people lose their minds is that

01:17:46   it's this irrational, anti-Apple mindset that if you're going to start with the assumption

01:17:53   that there's something wrong with Apple and something wrong like I've often said that there's this implicit

01:17:58   Insinuation that there's something wrong with people who choose Apple products and a lot of these people's explanations for

01:18:04   Why Apple products are so successful? Well, it all starts with the fact that their customers are

01:18:10   Fanatics and that's yeah

01:18:14   That's my favorite is that they will go on to tell you all the horrible things about the new iPhone

01:18:20   Right. When they come out with something new and it-

01:18:22   It doesn't compare to the Galaxy S3 or whatever because, you know, whatever reason. But they'll

01:18:28   sell a lot of them because of the fanboys.

01:18:30   Right. They'll sell a couple million of them to their fanatics.

01:18:34   Thirty-five million a quarter.

01:18:36   But, right, the Apple or the Apple faithful. That's what they will say.

01:18:41   Yeah.

01:18:42   Without any irony. Without any sense of irony.

01:18:43   No. No. It's such a-

01:18:45   Right?

01:18:46   Wow. How many people could there be who are brainwashed by Apple?

01:18:49   But if you start with that, if that's your starting point as one of your things that

01:18:53   you're going to file as a fact, that these people are like religious faithful, then all

01:19:00   sorts of—once you start that with a bad assumption like that, that you're unwilling

01:19:04   to backtrack from or examine at a distance and reconsider perhaps, then it's easy to

01:19:12   start down a path where you end up with "Let's shit can Tim Cook."

01:19:18   guy out of there before the company is totally ruined. We need to bring in somebody from

01:19:26   the top.

01:19:27   He must just laugh. He must just...

01:19:28   They should bring in somebody from Sony. Somebody who knows how to make gadgets.

01:19:32   Sony knows. Michael Dell.

01:19:34   Yeah, get Michael Dell in there. I have one last thing. Here's the one last thing, and

01:19:40   I've tweeted this. And everybody out there, if you're listening to the show, you should

01:19:43   follow the talk show on Twitter because that's the best way to get updates on

01:19:49   what's going on with the show. Like I didn't have a show last week. Maybe you

01:19:53   were distressed about that. Maybe you were confused. But if you follow me on

01:19:56   Twitter at the talk show you would have known that there wasn't gonna be a show

01:19:59   last week because that's where updates like that happen. And I have tweeted this

01:20:04   but many of you maybe don't listen to it. That everybody listens to the show. What

01:20:07   you should go do is book out the time, get a babysitter. You got to go see two

01:20:11   movies. You want to see The Master by Paul Thomas Anderson, great movie. Adam

01:20:20   Lisa Gore was on the show months ago when the trailer came out and we talked

01:20:23   about it. Well now the movie's out in the theaters, we've seen it. Adam Lisa Gore is

01:20:28   going to be back on the show and we are going to talk about it. But we're also

01:20:32   going to talk about another new movie called Looper and that's by writer

01:20:38   director Ryan Johnson. Ryan with an "I". And this is unbelievable, it's almost hard to

01:20:45   believe, but as another guest on the show with Adam is going to be writer/director of

01:20:52   Looper, Ryan Johnson. And so the three of us are going to talk about the master, we're

01:20:56   going to talk about Looper, and the whole thing is going to be very spoilerific. So

01:21:02   you want to see these movies before you listen to the show, and you definitely want to see

01:21:05   both of these movies. Now you've, have you seen Looper?

01:21:07   I've seen Looper. I've not seen The Master yet, but I've seen Looper. It's a good

01:21:13   movie, and you should go see it.

01:21:14   Right. Don't take my word for it. Just understand that if Bruce Willis is in the movie and it's

01:21:18   about time travel, you know it's going to be good. You know it's going to be good.

01:21:24   Bruce Willis, time travel, and can't go wrong.

01:21:29   You can't go wrong.

01:21:30   So I'm very excited about that, but I've got to get this out here. You've got to

01:21:33   know this if you're listening to the show. You want to see these movies before you listen

01:21:36   to the show.

01:21:37   All right.

01:21:38   I say we call it a show, Jon.

01:21:42   Good work.

01:21:43   All right.

01:21:44   Swing for the fences.

01:21:46   [BLANK_AUDIO]