The Talk Show

1: What If the Dolphins Had Thumbs, with John Moltz


00:00:00   So, on Mother's Day, there's no better way to spend Mother's Day than watching baseball

00:00:04   games on TV.

00:00:07   We're really going to start off with baseball?

00:00:09   Well, I just have to because it's a day game.

00:00:15   Yankees are playing and famed Yankees superstar Andy Pettit, after a year in retirement, is

00:00:21   back on the mound for the first time since 2010 pitching in Yankee Stadium.

00:00:27   the TV announcers, I'm watching of course the Yankees telecast and they're

00:00:31   their poll of the day. I don't know if every other team does this but they

00:00:35   always have like a text message poll of the day where they're you know they

00:00:39   give you like four choices and you text message different numbers to cast

00:00:44   your vote. What was Andy Pettit's signature moment of his career? And the

00:00:48   winner was the 1996 World Series game against the Atlanta Braves where he the

00:00:55   The Yankees won that game, won nothing, and he out-dueled Braves Hall of Fame pitcher

00:01:01   John Smoltz. So now you see where I'm going with this.

00:01:04   And now I see where you're going.

00:01:06   And I'm explaining it to Jonas, and Jonas was like, "Well, tell me all about it. Who?"

00:01:11   And he said, "Who's John Smoltz?" And all of a sudden, Amy walks into the room. She's like,

00:01:15   "You've got to be kidding me. That's made up, right?" And I'm like, "No, he was an all-star.

00:01:21   He was a great pitcher. She's like John Smoltz, really? I'm sure.

00:01:24   And then she just wandered off. She thought that you had got a hold of the Yankees announcers.

00:01:31   Yeah, I don't know. She didn't hear the TV guys talking about it. She heard me explaining it to

00:01:36   Jonas and thought that I was just making up names of baseball players based on the four or five

00:01:46   actual friends I have in life that'd be neat I don't know why it never really

00:01:52   occurred to me until that very moment when she came in and said that never

00:01:55   really occurred to me just how similar your names are yeah I mean I think

00:02:00   they're completely unrelated as far as I know remember that guy he used to play

00:02:06   it's certainly my skill of baseball would indicate that you remember the guy

00:02:09   he used to play for the Kansas City Chiefs John Scruber there's a kicker now

00:02:16   you're making it he was a he was a kicker a place kicker now you are though

00:02:23   you're not John Smoltz you are John moltz I am the last time I checked which

00:02:28   was earlier today I'm John Gruber yes we have to say that I usually don't say

00:02:34   that's gonna cause confusion I did the whole thing is very confusing I just

00:02:38   told you do you want me to I just told we just spent 30 minutes I spent 30

00:02:41   minutes trying to figure out how to make a Skype call because I am always just

00:02:45   wondering if that was the problem really was I mean I've had a lot of problems

00:02:50   with Skype I've always had a lot of problems with Skype I everybody has

00:02:53   problems with Skype I when I try to use Skype I am your grandfather with the

00:03:00   with a new PC and I'm you know I don't know how I'm talking into the mouse

00:03:07   It is to me the most baffling application I have ever seen in my life.

00:03:15   Nothing you can do with it ever seems to be what you want.

00:03:18   It seems to me like once you have somebody's contact and if you double click them, it should

00:03:21   be like either start a call or like, "Hey, you want to call this person?"

00:03:25   Nope.

00:03:26   Not what happened.

00:03:28   I'm so afraid of Skype that I have not updated it in, let's see, so it must have been since

00:03:34   2008.

00:03:35   It looks like I'm running version 2.7 and I think it's well beyond that.

00:03:41   But it's like it works and I know that other people have had trouble after they've updated

00:03:46   it.

00:03:47   So I'm just like I'm not – until it stops working, I'm not –

00:03:49   I would recommend that.

00:03:50   See now my problem is I was doing that on another computer where I had upgraded to whatever

00:03:56   the new version is.

00:03:57   And it really – they just made it worse, like way worse.

00:04:03   But then I had, I got a new computer, I have a new error over here, and I mean I guess

00:04:07   I could dig up the old copy of Skype somewhere.

00:04:09   But I think it says something that they still make the old, like if you Google hard enough

00:04:12   you can still find the download for it.

00:04:15   Usually that's a pretty bad sign, I think.

00:04:18   Right.

00:04:19   Right.

00:04:20   You shouldn't need to be leaving that out there for people to use.

00:04:23   Right.

00:04:24   Like it's one thing if you have an old version because your new version only works on operating

00:04:29   system from last year and newer. And hey, if you're on an old operating system, here's

00:04:34   an old version. And there's a technical limitation that would help people out by keeping an old

00:04:41   version available. But when it really is, people are so confused by the new version

00:04:45   that they can't make calls.

00:04:48   Right. They can't actually use it to do what it's supposed to be doing.

00:04:52   Right. Like at some point, you just know though, and you just know that there's a meeting where

00:04:56   There's somebody who raised their hand, and they were like, hey, maybe instead of keeping

00:05:01   the old version available, what if we fixed the new version so it wasn't confusing?

00:05:06   And they got shot down.

00:05:08   And then they just went back and had a desk drink.

00:05:17   You've got a new website, too.

00:05:19   Is it still new?

00:05:20   Do we – how long do we –

00:05:22   Yeah, I guess so.

00:05:23   I mean, yeah.

00:05:24   I mean, I guess in internet terms it's not that new anymore, but it's new to me.

00:05:29   It's a couple months old.

00:05:30   It's a very nice website.

00:05:31   Well, maybe not even that much.

00:05:33   Literally.

00:05:34   Literally and figuratively, it's verynicewebsite.net.

00:05:40   John Moltz's verynicewebsite.

00:05:41   Yeah.

00:05:42   I was going to mention, I was looking for something that I linked to the other day because

00:05:47   it was relevant to what we were just talking about, is that you can still run Windows 8

00:05:56   on Macs that you cannot run Lion on.

00:06:00   Wow.

00:06:02   Which I found kind of interesting.

00:06:04   I installed Windows 8.

00:06:06   I got the preview copy of Windows 8 just for fun and put it on an old, I had the first

00:06:12   Intel Mac Mini is a course solo, and it won't take Lion, but it took Windows 8.

00:06:17   That is kind of weird.

00:06:19   Yeah.

00:06:20   I mean, I think some of that just has to do with their different markets, I mean, I think.

00:06:26   But also, it's just their different attitudes towards backwards compatibility.

00:06:31   Right. And it's the fact that Apple is fundamentally a computer maker,

00:06:36   not an operating system company maker.

00:06:40   Right.

00:06:40   Right.

00:06:41   Great. Microsoft is interested in selling you the operating system. If you've got older hardware,

00:06:44   yeah, we'd love to sell you the operating system. But whereas Apple, yeah, no, we'd really rather

00:06:49   you go out and buy a new Mac. I've got an upcoming headache on my hands where I've got family members

00:06:55   who've got Lion Macs, Macs running Lion. I think it's a Lion or is it Snow Leopard? No,

00:07:06   No, Snow Leopard, gotta go back further.

00:07:09   Snow Leopard.

00:07:10   See, that's just the thing.

00:07:11   And good old Wolf Wrench used to complain about it endlessly

00:07:15   that he could only remember the two most recent cat names

00:07:20   and how they correspond.

00:07:21   And then otherwise, it's like,

00:07:22   I remember that there was one called Tiger.

00:07:24   I don't remember what the hell it was.

00:07:26   Whereas if you just stick to the 10-4, 10-5, 10-6,

00:07:29   you know which one was newer and older.

00:07:31   Anyway, I think that they're all on 10-5,

00:07:34   which was Snow Leopard.

00:07:36   And so they can't do iCloud.

00:07:39   And they've got mac.com or me.com, MobileMe,

00:07:44   and the MobileMe apocalypse is drawing nigh.

00:07:48   - 10-5 is leopard.

00:07:50   - All right, whatever.

00:07:51   - 10-6 is snow leopard, 10-7 is lion.

00:07:53   - You would think I would know this, really.

00:07:55   This is very unprofessional.

00:07:56   - No, it gets me all the time too.

00:07:58   And recently I noticed that I was,

00:08:00   'cause I have a, I mean, as you might suspect,

00:08:03   have a mess of Macs in my office of varying ages. And I mean the way that I

00:08:09   remember that is I fortunately I have all the boxes from the different

00:08:14   operating system releases in a row on my shelf. But right now they're all

00:08:19   they're all like strewn across the room because I've been updating and I got a

00:08:23   new, you know Tom Carmony. Of course. He's moving to San Francisco, he had a

00:08:28   yard sale and I picked up a lime iMac from him and so I had to find something

00:08:37   that would run run on that you and I are it's a sickness it's a sickness I people

00:08:43   say stuff to me people said people write to me and like hey I was digging through

00:08:47   my garage and I found it an old Apple extended keyboard it's in great condition

00:08:52   and I'd my mind I think send it to me I had a guy a couple weeks ago who told me

00:08:58   that he had a an SE 30 in the box and and that he goes I don't know what I was

00:09:03   thinking he seems like he was like you know it's a couple years older than us

00:09:06   but he bought it in like 1989 or 90 brand-new and never opened it thinking

00:09:12   that that when he retired he would he would use it as his you know he would

00:09:18   keep it and then when he retired he'd get into it that's where he got and he

00:09:24   says don't laugh it made sense at the time I didn't I wasn't really thinking

00:09:27   about the fact that computers really change every two years. In a sense, think about the way he went.

00:09:35   I think, and I don't want to put words in the fellow's mouth, but I think that he was thinking

00:09:38   about it in a way that maybe 50 years prior, a guy might have thought, "You know what? When I retire,

00:09:45   I want to try to take a shot at writing a novel and buying the typewriter 20 years first, just as

00:09:52   is like a little reminder that, "Hey, I'm going to retire in 15 years. What I'm going

00:09:57   to do when I retire is write a novel. There's my typewriter. I'm going to keep it in the

00:10:00   box and every couple of days I'm going to look at it and think about what I'm going

00:10:03   to do." I think that's how he went into it with the computer, but then next thing you

00:10:07   know he's got a 25-year-old SE30 he's never opened up.

00:10:13   **Matt Stauffer** But in the box.

00:10:15   **Ezra Klein** Right. I'm not 100% sure whether he's never even cracked the seal on it or

00:10:20   whatever.

00:10:21   And then he was saying that and then he thought you know I got to get rid of this thing and he thought he could

00:10:25   Sell it for what he bought it for in 1991 or whatever and then he found out to know you can't

00:10:30   Know you see 30 is not worth five thousand dollars. Yeah, yeah, I had my first Mac was an SE with though

00:10:39   not the 30 but with the

00:10:41   Double I know high density hard high density hard drive or don't fluffy drive

00:10:45   and I you know I sold it to buy the next one and you know

00:10:50   But I still had, like, ten years later or whatever it was,

00:10:54   I still had all of the floppy disks lying around.

00:10:57   I had all these little games,

00:10:58   and I thought, "Oh, it'd be kind of fun to try these."

00:11:00   So this was like ten years ago now.

00:11:03   And I got on eBay a machine that I paid $2,000 for.

00:11:06   I got it for a dollar.

00:11:08   Basically got the same machine for a dollar.

00:11:11   -Right. -And now it's here in my office

00:11:15   with a Mac Plus that a friend found on the side of the road.

00:11:19   and I'm using them for shelving.

00:11:21   You I at my instincts are in the same way and I have to fight it.

00:11:26   Yeah, every step of the way. I think of course I want that set it up.

00:11:29   Well, that's what that's what Diane told Diane said that she had this conversation with Amy Jane.

00:11:34   She said because what I bought the iMac from Tom, she said you're just like Groover.

00:11:40   You know, and I don't have it set up like I don't have I don't have as many as you do.

00:11:47   and I'm trying to fight the instinct to collect more, but my instinct is always to say yes.

00:11:51   And if I would do the same thing, I didn't even really care for the candy-colored Mac era.

00:11:58   Didn't really even care for that whole aesthetic. But if I was at Tom Carmody's house and he's

00:12:02   having a moving garage sale and there's a nice lime green iMac, my instinct would be,

00:12:06   "Well, I'll take that." Yeah. I missed a 12-inch power book by like 10 minutes.

00:12:12   Would have bought that too. I was just kicking myself.

00:12:15   But I walked out of there with a lime iMac.

00:12:19   I had never had one of this generation either.

00:12:23   I went straight from a Performa 6400 to a G4 power Mac.

00:12:29   You know, we are – you and I, we've rehearsed this show very, very – we put a lot of effort

00:12:35   into the rehearsal and preparation.

00:12:37   But while we were doing that, one of the things we talked about – you talked about the site

00:12:43   you used to write for.

00:12:44   I guess you haven't really officially shut it down, but CARS, the Crazy Apple Rumor Site.

00:12:48   Yeah.

00:12:49   You were telling me about a piece you had to abandon about the – how would you describe

00:12:59   her?

00:13:01   The –

00:13:02   The MAC –

00:13:04   The clip – I mean, I assume that she's clip art.

00:13:07   I mean, she was like not actually a person who worked there.

00:13:11   The MAC connection.

00:13:12   But the MAC connection –

00:13:13   Catalog.

00:13:14   buy, yeah, I mean the way that we got our information back then was you get these

00:13:17   magazines. You get Macworld, you get MacAddict or whatever, and in the back you

00:13:21   open it up and there are all these ads for places like MacConnection and MacMall

00:13:26   that, you know, where we used to buy all that's all of our stuff for their Apple

00:13:29   stores because, you know, there was chances are there was no place in town

00:13:32   that you could buy anything from Apple. If you're certainly, if you were someplace,

00:13:38   you know, a smaller town, maybe you could go to a Circuit City or not, what was it,

00:13:43   CompUSA and go back, you know, and sandwiched between the peripherals of

00:13:48   the damned there be your Mac section. But most everybody bought stuff from the

00:13:53   back of these magazines and so there was always they always had some pretty girl

00:13:57   who was supposedly the phone the phone the person that you would call who would

00:14:02   be ready and willing to take your your order and so the piece was you know

00:14:08   going to be about what she's doing now because those places don't I don't think

00:14:14   they do the pool and the thing is the thing to remember is that Mac connection

00:14:17   was one of the bigger names number two number two it and this really dates us I

00:14:21   mean this is me and you we're getting into grandfather mode here but you have

00:14:24   to remember there was no web yet I mean we're talking early night right very

00:14:28   early night yeah nobody trust me nobody bought anything I mean before Amazon

00:14:33   really this is before there even was a web though I mean or if there was it

00:14:36   certainly couldn't buy stuff on it. Yeah, some of it, yeah. So if you wanted to buy a new modem,

00:14:41   you had to have like a magazine handy where you'd call one of these 1-800 numbers and tell them

00:14:46   which one you wanted and do it. But the thing with Mac Connection is it was always the exact

00:14:52   same photo of this woman. It never changed. They never picked a different woman. They only had one

00:14:58   picture of her, which is certainly one of the reasons I always thought it was clipart too, that

00:15:01   they, you know, it wasn't like they had a series of photos. Yeah, they were taking a new picture

00:15:06   of her every year. And once you ordered something from one of these companies, there was another

00:15:10   big one is MacMall. I mean, I don't know these things. They might even still be around. I don't

00:15:14   know. But but once you ordered them MacMall definitely you would get on their list and then

00:15:19   once a month they'd send you an updated catalog. And this actually was this wasn't like annoying.

00:15:23   I wish they'd stop this was actually helpful. Because then you would you know, that was like

00:15:28   the only way you'd know what the new prices were for stuff. Right. And find out about new products.

00:15:32   Right? It was effectively the app store and Amazon all rolled up in one, because that's

00:15:38   how you actually had to buy your apps. You had to buy your apps in a box. But that connection

00:15:44   always was the exact same woman. And anybody from that era will know. I mean, she was attractive,

00:15:49   but she wasn't super attractive. No, girl next door.

00:15:53   Yeah. Totally feasible that maybe she was somebody who answered the phone for them.

00:15:57   And they're like, "Hey, Sally, would you mind if we take a picture?"

00:16:01   Yeah, and maybe she was. I mean, I don't know for sure, but maybe she did work there at one point.

00:16:05   Right.

00:16:06   She's like, "Hey, turn around. Click."

00:16:08   She didn't really... She did not look like a model, like a fashion model, who was told,

00:16:14   "Hey, put this headset on and pretend you're on the phone for a second."

00:16:17   You know, but she was attractive, but she also was very attractive in like a... The photo was

00:16:25   was very clearly taken in 1987. She could not have looked more 80s.

00:16:31   Even by the early 90s, she sort of started looking dated.

00:16:34   But she effectively was the logo for Mac

00:16:42   Connection. What the apple with a bite out of it, Mark, is to

00:16:47   Apple, that woman was to Mac Connection. You wouldn't know it was Mac

00:16:52   connection if you didn't see her. And her photo was huge. It was huge on the catalog.

00:16:56   It was like, "We're the people with this woman that's…"

00:16:59   And what'd you say though?

00:17:01   I'm going to go to their site to see if she's still there.

00:17:09   And you said you had to abandon the piece though.

00:17:11   Yeah, it just got too dark.

00:17:14   There's no good place to take a comedy watch.

00:17:17   She's she's yeah, it didn't end up well for her

00:17:19   She's in an unhappy marriage

00:17:22   So I feel like there's a lot going on I feel like

00:17:27   Like this is we're gonna fill up an hour here easy

00:17:31   I mean today today, there's a couple things new stuff. I mean stuff that just if we had recorded yesterday

00:17:36   We would already be out of date

00:17:38   Right so what do we got today run run down the news today?

00:17:45   Samsung loses how much?

00:17:50   19 gazillion, $10 billion wiped off its value

00:17:54   following a report by Digitimes.

00:17:56   Digitimes, man, that's gotta hurt.

00:17:58   That's the worst part.

00:17:59   10 billion wiped off your value from a report by Digitimes

00:18:04   indicating that Apple placed a large order for DRAM

00:18:09   from a Japanese competitor, Alpida.

00:18:13   It is crazy.

00:18:14   Digitimes.

00:18:16   Yeah.

00:18:18   And I think, I mean, that's happened,

00:18:20   I mean, maybe not to that degree,

00:18:21   but some of that has happened to Apple in the past,

00:18:24   certainly.

00:18:25   And I don't know, maybe not sourced from Digitimes,

00:18:28   but definitely, I mean, there's been instances

00:18:30   where some rumors have negatively affected

00:18:33   Apple's share of players, but this is pretty big.

00:18:36   I mean, it's old news.

00:18:38   I mean, and you can find examples of it every week

00:18:40   where the stock market is not rational

00:18:43   and it tends to overreact.

00:18:45   It's a herd mentality.

00:18:46   But this seems--

00:18:47   I mean, and you and I, it's not like we're fans of Samsung

00:18:50   in particular.

00:18:51   But this seems outrageously unfair to Samsung.

00:18:55   I mean, Samsung seems to be doing pretty darn well

00:18:59   as a business.

00:19:00   Say what you want about whether you

00:19:02   like using the Galaxy Dingus phones or whatever.

00:19:04   But they seem to have a really rich business,

00:19:08   where they have a lot of--

00:19:09   they're doing well in the phone market.

00:19:11   They're the only company other than Apple

00:19:12   any significant profit. I mean, there's only two companies in the world making a serious profit

00:19:17   selling phones, Apple and Samsung. And then the only third company that's making like

00:19:22   $10 a year is HTC. Everyone else is losing money. So that's pretty good. They make their own screens,

00:19:29   they've got manufacturing, they're doing well in the TV business. They have a wide ranging,

00:19:35   I mean, they're a conglomerate in every sense of the word, and it seems like they're doing

00:19:38   really well. And then Digitime says Apple's buying DRAM from a Japanese company.

00:19:42   And they lose six billion dollars. Is that what it was? Six billion dollars? Ten, it says ten billion dollars in market cap.

00:19:48   This is, I'm looking at Electroneista, but it was on several.

00:19:51   Right, I mean, I presume that that will even out and people will sober up after lunch and maybe the stock will

00:19:58   Yeah. Even out, but it just seems, especially coming a day or two after

00:20:03   Harry McCracken's epic. All right, let's see. Here's 25 digit time reports from the last few years.

00:20:11   Right, and then they run back in and "ah, sell your Samsung."

00:20:16   Right.

00:20:17   And like, that's like Harry McCracken.

00:20:20   I mean, that is like some serious claim chowder cooking to go not just like one at a time,

00:20:25   but to do 25.

00:20:26   And more or less the result was if the report from Digitimes was even vaguely sensational

00:20:32   and interesting, it ended up being complete bullshit.

00:20:36   The only ones that panned out were the ones that were kind of obvious, like, "Apple's

00:20:42   making the new phone this year."

00:20:46   Like anything that was actually like newsworthy.

00:20:49   And it just appalls me.

00:20:51   Over and over again, people will still credulously report things from Digitimes.

00:20:59   I think most of the rumor sites now seem to at least be putting some sort of disclaimer

00:21:05   in about digital right that their record is a little but they still yeah to me

00:21:10   they're they're so bad it's not worth it I mean it's not even worth mentioning

00:21:14   right I mean it's so bad that I think you could really you you would clean up

00:21:20   I mean like at a preposterous set sense you would just clean up if you bet

00:21:24   against anything they were against because they're never they're never

00:21:28   Never right.

00:21:31   Very strange.

00:21:32   Now, you like to gamble.

00:21:33   I do like to gamble.

00:21:36   Do you play the stocks?

00:21:37   No, I don't.

00:21:38   I should, but because, you know.

00:21:40   Yeah, it seems like those two things will go hand in hand.

00:21:44   I can see how it's – and I think once you have a taste for it, I do – and then stuff

00:21:49   like this JP Morgan stuff where the guy lost $2 billion or whatever, it's like, "Whoops."

00:21:55   It really is.

00:21:56   It's the same thing.

00:21:57   There's no difference between blackjack and the stock market except I think that the difference

00:22:02   is there's no house in the stock market.

00:22:05   So if you're the big guy, I mean that's the advantage to it is that you might be able

00:22:11   to actually win in the long term since there's nobody taking a mathematical cut.

00:22:17   Somebody did a thing a couple of years ago.

00:22:19   I forget if it was Matt Howey or somebody but they just – it wasn't super recent.

00:22:25   It was before Apple really became huge.

00:22:28   It was when Apple was like in, wow, Apple's making a nice recovery, but they're still

00:22:32   like one of the smaller players in tech.

00:22:37   Somebody had done a thing where they just tracked Apple's stock price after keynote

00:22:42   announcements.

00:22:43   And it like four times out of five, it went down the day of, you know, like the afternoon

00:22:50   after a keynote and always recovered by the next week.

00:22:54   and then climb back.

00:22:55   That you could, you know, that it looked like you could really, without paying any attention

00:22:59   to the specifics of the rumors or even listening to what was announced in the keynote, if you

00:23:04   just bought Apple in the afternoon after it dipped 5% because they didn't announce, you

00:23:10   know, 3D glasses that run on infinitely, never run dry batteries as was predicted by analysts,

00:23:18   and then just sell it in a week after it recovered and everybody was like, "Hey, you know, they

00:23:22   actually did announce some cool stuff.

00:23:24   When they sober up.

00:23:28   Yeah, you could just make money. You could just mint money on it. I feel like there's

00:23:32   a lot of patterns. You probably could make a lot. There's got to be some patterns like

00:23:35   that in the stock market.

00:23:37   Right. There definitely are. Every once in a while, it'll buck the trend. But still,

00:23:45   if you did it over time enough, you got to make a lot of money doing that. There's

00:23:52   lot of – I think there's – you can see a lot of gaming. I mean, it's almost – you

00:23:56   can see that there are people trying to float rumors leading up to events in order to try

00:24:05   to affect the stock price.

00:24:07   Right. There's two senses of that. There's the nerd sense where we just listen and we

00:24:14   just want to know about the cool stuff and the sites like The Verge and Gadget. We just

00:24:20   wanting here, we just want, give us the specs.

00:24:24   You know, in a way that we don't, we're happy when we have surprises in the keynote that aren't spoiled.

00:24:32   But if they're going to be spoiled, let me read all the details about it in advance. I can't help myself.

00:24:36   Right. But we really just are doing it as nerds.

00:24:40   But there's also clearly another set of people who are setting things up to try to like,

00:24:45   it just seems very clear that they're trying to move the stock.

00:24:48   - Right.

00:24:49   - Tell us.

00:24:51   - It's more like, the stock market's more like,

00:24:55   it's just more like poker than like,

00:24:57   you know, more like where you're sitting around

00:24:58   playing poker with a bunch of different people

00:25:00   as opposed to playing the house.

00:25:01   - Yes, exactly.

00:25:03   - I have a friend who years ago actually did that.

00:25:07   I mean, decided, he got into online,

00:25:10   you know, playing poker online,

00:25:11   and then got so good at it that he decided

00:25:16   he was gonna take six months and try and make it his job.

00:25:19   And he did, I mean, and he did okay.

00:25:23   His family wasn't out on the street or anything,

00:25:25   but he didn't do incredibly.

00:25:28   But the thing that really drove him back

00:25:31   to do a regular job was that he

00:25:34   just got tired of taking advantage of people

00:25:37   because that's what you have to do.

00:25:39   I mean, you go in there and I mean, particularly around here, he wasn't in Vegas.

00:25:43   He was he was around here going to Indian casinos.

00:25:46   And and then, you know, you get to know the people who would play there and then you'd know what their

00:25:51   weaknesses are and you would just exploit them.

00:25:55   And, you know, he he figured he either had to really like go into that

00:26:00   in order to make a good living doing it or he had to just, you know, give up and do something else.

00:26:05   So he decided to do something else.

00:26:07   But that, I mean, it seems like that situation is more like the stock market.

00:26:11   Yeah, I think definitely. But it's also the case

00:26:15   too where it's almost like poker

00:26:19   where sometimes the cards, you can just see everybody's cards. And I think Apple

00:26:23   is that type of company. It's like one of the non-stop recurring

00:26:27   themes of what I talk about, what I write about, is that

00:26:31   Apple is really a fairly simple company. They really, I mean,

00:26:35   by market value they're the biggest company in the world but they're really

00:26:41   really pretty simple. I mean you can actually get to know the company just by

00:26:46   walking into one of their stores because the stores sort of represent everything

00:26:51   they do and the emphasis they put on things in the stores is pretty close to

00:26:56   relative the importance it is to them as a company. You know the iPhones and iPads

00:27:01   are up front. The most important Macs are the MacBooks, especially the Airs, and you

00:27:10   know the iPhone cases are in the back. It's a really simple company and then you read,

00:27:18   you know, if you're obsessed with the company like we are and then you sometimes you see

00:27:22   the financial analysts and they're so bizarrely wrong and you just associate from that. That's

00:27:29   All they do is just study the company.

00:27:31   - Yeah, that's a good point.

00:27:32   I hadn't thought about that.

00:27:33   I mean, and it kind of,

00:27:35   if you think about the Microsoft store

00:27:38   and how that is not true at a Microsoft store.

00:27:42   I mean, basically a Microsoft store

00:27:43   is pretty much a copy of an Apple store

00:27:45   and it's their consumer,

00:27:46   I mean, I guess maybe it's a good focus,

00:27:48   I mean, a good lens on their consumer business,

00:27:51   but it's not a good lens on the company in general

00:27:53   because most of their business is enterprise stuff.

00:27:57   - Right, and that's, you know,

00:27:58   I don't know that it has to be that way, and that the Microsoft stores might end up being

00:28:02   good for them. I don't know. I just think it—but again, Microsoft is not anywhere

00:28:08   near as easy as a company to understand as Apple.

00:28:11   Right. Right. They do a decent—I mean, I've only been up past—there's one up about

00:28:18   45 minutes to an hour from here, and it's never as packed as an Apple store is on a

00:28:24   Saturday afternoon. But, and it's also, you know, it's right next to Redmond. So, I

00:28:30   mean, maybe that's got something to do with it. But, um, they do a decent, they do

00:28:34   a decent business in there. There's usually, I mean, you go by there on a Saturday

00:28:37   afternoon and, and it's, it's full and there are a number of people walking

00:28:42   around in there. I don't know how many people are buying things, but they at least have

00:28:45   people in there. Hey, I should hit the money button here. Hit the money button.

00:28:50   Uh, our first sponsor, Piezo from Rogue Amoeba. Recording audio on your Mac doesn't have to

00:28:59   be hard. Piezo from Rogue Amoeba makes it a snap. Whether you want to record a Skype

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00:29:18   rogue amoeba.com I can tell you right now right now my voice right now John is

00:29:24   being recorded by piezo and not coincidentally mine is also being

00:29:30   recorded by piezo piezo as opposed to piezo I say piezo or piezo eyes oh could

00:29:40   be pie okay we're gonna have to redo the whole show if I'm wrong I think you're

00:29:44   You're probably right.

00:29:45   P-I-E-Z-O.

00:29:46   P-I-E-Z-O.

00:29:47   Is that what you said, right?

00:29:49   Isn't it a lovely interface?

00:29:52   It really is.

00:29:53   You know what else?

00:29:54   I would say this.

00:29:55   And easy, too.

00:29:56   It is super easy.

00:29:57   It really is.

00:29:58   I could go on and on about it.

00:29:59   I will also say one of my favorite icons ever.

00:30:04   It has one of the best app icons I've ever seen.

00:30:08   I applaud almost any app icon that is not some sort of square thing with a pencil over

00:30:13   the top of it.

00:30:14   Yes, in blue. Half the reason I love the icon is that there's no...

00:30:20   there's not one pixel of blue in it. Yeah, it makes it stand out. I mean it's

00:30:26   completely... very noticeable in my doc. Well, that's a good segue into something I

00:30:34   wanted to talk about, and I want to talk about it because I don't know what

00:30:38   to write about it, because I really don't know what I think about yet. Like, I know

00:30:42   I know it's something, but I really just don't have my mind about it.

00:30:48   I don't have my mind made up about it, but it's Windows for ARM.

00:30:51   Windows for ARM has rules that are a lot like those of iOS, where the only apps you can install are Metro apps,

00:31:01   and they have to go through the Microsoft App Store, and the Metro APIs are all brand new,

00:31:09   and they're not, you can't run, you can't just recompile your existing

00:31:13   looks like Windows as we know it app, just hit a button and recompile it for

00:31:18   ARM

00:31:18   and have a version you can, it doesn't work like that, can't have it. So

00:31:22   last week it came out, I mean this isn't news that that's the way it's gonna be, but

00:31:27   Mozilla officially came out

00:31:29   as being in opposition to this that because they can't do

00:31:33   a full version of Firefox for Windows RT

00:31:37   making the argument that this not just is not the way it should be, but that it shouldn't

00:31:44   even be allowed to be this way because of all of the antitrust agreements Microsoft

00:31:49   has made due to the unpleasantness in the late 90s with the US Department of Justice

00:31:55   and I guess with Europe too.

00:32:01   And so I can totally see, I absolutely see why Mozilla would push in this direction,

00:32:08   because it's certainly in their interests to have Firefox, you know, to be able to do

00:32:13   a full version of Firefox for all versions of Windows.

00:32:17   So I don't fault them for pushing in this direction.

00:32:21   But I don't know, I tend to think, the way I lean is that Microsoft is actually, isn't

00:32:28   doing anything wrong here.

00:32:29   Right. Well, you had linked to a piece that indicated that most of that stuff is written in terms of that the restrictions were on Intel-based hardware.

00:32:40   Right.

00:32:41   So, and it seems to make more sense. I mean, if you think about the tablet market, it's obvious that Microsoft is not in a monopoly position in the tablet market.

00:32:50   So, it seems like this should be considered new territory.

00:32:57   Right, there's a couple of ways to look at it, and I think looking at it, and I

00:33:02   think the news was that Mozilla kind of cracked the seal on wanting to look at

00:33:07   this from a legal perspective, and not that they filed a lawsuit, I mean, and

00:33:11   and have gotten there yet, but they sort of at least like opened the door, and

00:33:17   that, you know, indicated that maybe, you know, maybe such a, you know, whether it

00:33:21   would be like a civil suit or whether it would be them petitioning the Department

00:33:25   of Justice or the European regulators to look into this,

00:33:28   but that legal action might end up being taken place.

00:33:32   But I actually think Microsoft might be on good ground

00:33:34   in this regard, because like you said,

00:33:36   that the actual findings of facts from 1999

00:33:39   and the great unpleasantness really do mention

00:33:41   over and over and over again, 30-some times,

00:33:44   Intel-compatible PC operating systems.

00:33:49   - Yeah, and the thing that you linked to

00:33:53   was specifically the Department of Justice settlement with Microsoft. So I

00:33:59   mean they may have a different issue with European situations. I mean maybe

00:34:04   maybe that's another right. And one of the things you know I remember this and

00:34:09   I wasn't writing during fireball at the time but I was certainly following the

00:34:12   tech industry just as obsessively you know and just in a pure layman's

00:34:16   understanding of antitrust law is that monopolies aren't illegal in and of

00:34:21   themselves. It's just that when you have a monopoly, you have to play by different

00:34:25   rules. So it's not that, "Hey, you have a monopoly, you've got to be busted up." No, it

00:34:30   doesn't work like that. But it's, "Hey, you have a monopoly, you can't do certain

00:34:34   things that you could do if you didn't have a monopoly." But there's all... it's

00:34:41   it's hard to... sometimes I think, especially in the computer industry, it's

00:34:45   really kind of hard. It depends how you divide something up to say whether

00:34:50   there's some things a monopoly or not. Like I think the old AT&T phone monopoly

00:34:54   in the US was as clear cases could be because if you wanted to call make a

00:34:59   call to somebody who didn't live in your town the one and only way to do it was

00:35:03   through AT&T and you paid whatever AT&T said you wanted to pay. I mean that's

00:35:09   about as classic of a monopoly as could be. I think that the old railroad

00:35:13   monopolies were as classic of monopolies you wanted. If you wanted to ship

00:35:17   something on a train from here to there had to go through these guys and there

00:35:22   were no other options but when you start talking I mean I've heard people I have

00:35:27   heard people endlessly talk about the fact that that like accuse Apple of

00:35:32   having a monopoly Mac OS that right that if you want a Mac you've got it you can

00:35:39   only buy an Apple computer and I don't think I think that that's I don't think

00:35:44   there's any I don't think that actually is how things work but right just from a

00:35:49   common sense standpoint like you said a couple minutes ago there's no I don't

00:35:52   see how anybody could argue that Microsoft's monopoly on PC operating

00:35:57   systems translates into tablets right that these that the machines that they

00:36:02   intend to put Windows RT on Microsoft not only doesn't have a monopoly they've

00:36:07   got like nothing they've got zip I mean they tried to they've tried to saw

00:36:12   Windows as a tablet operating system for years and it's just not done

00:36:17   anything. But also this is just, this is completely new architecture. But I do

00:36:22   it, I, you know, I have to say and I've, you know, it's one of those things

00:36:26   because I wasn't writing Daring Fireball at the time and so there's no, there's no

00:36:33   record. I can't prove it. But I really have to say I was never all that

00:36:39   comfortable with with the way that the terms that Microsoft ended up agreeing

00:36:44   to in the antitrust agreement I've never I always thought that it just I kind of

00:36:53   saw Microsoft side on it I do think that they did some things the way that they I

00:36:57   think the things that they did that were wrong and clearly were illegal and

00:37:00   deserve some sort of legal punishment were the the hardball tactics they took

00:37:06   where it was like, "Hey, you're going to do this." They'd go to Dell and say, "You're going to make

00:37:11   Internet Explorer the default browser, or we're not going to sell you any copies of Windows, period."

00:37:17   You know, that...

00:37:19   Right.

00:37:19   Right. And that's illegal because they can't... They needed... Dell needed licenses for Windows,

00:37:24   otherwise they'd go out of business. There were... While there were other, quote,

00:37:28   unquote, Intel PC operating systems, by the '90s, you couldn't make any money selling computers that

00:37:34   that had dead used them but I don't know that they should have been forced to

00:37:40   make some of these rules about windows and what they can do by default it

00:37:45   really does you know I always struck me as something that was gonna hamstring

00:37:48   them I think at the time I was just happy that you know anything I was happy

00:37:54   to see Microsoft get stuck by some right so I was you know certainly supportive

00:38:00   of it at the time but probably not from a real logical stamp right Blake first

00:38:04   very specifically, I remember, and this was like a huge point of contention in

00:38:07   the court proceedings, was Microsoft's argument that Internet Explorer was part

00:38:11   of the operating system. And it couldn't be, the way that it was made, it

00:38:17   couldn't be taken out. And I think that the slashdot crowd really saw no merit

00:38:29   to that argument whatsoever. Because at a technical level, it certainly didn't have

00:38:33   to be that way. You certainly didn't have to make the browser part of the operating

00:38:38   system. But I actually think Microsoft was right that Internet Explorer was part of the

00:38:44   operating system in the same way that WebKit is part of OS X and iOS. That it's, you

00:38:54   know, that they've…

00:38:55   Yeah. I think at the time I found that a convenient excuse. You know, they were trying to tie…

00:39:01   I mean, they were doing things like trying to make it the new Windows Explorer and that

00:39:05   kind of thing.

00:39:06   I thought that they were basically doing that in order to try to make it part of the operating

00:39:12   system so that they could use that as an excuse.

00:39:15   But I think in retrospect, some of that was just my lack of foresight as to where they

00:39:21   thought they were going with it.

00:39:23   Yeah.

00:39:24   But I think now, fast forward, flash forward, fast forward, I guess fast forward to the

00:39:30   present day. And it really, this whole argument really, to me, encapsulates the

00:39:38   incredible tables are turned position between Apple and Microsoft. You know,

00:39:45   where Apple's role in that whole late 90s Department of Justice investigation

00:39:51   against Microsoft was sort of, like the fact that Apple didn't go out of

00:39:56   business was like the best thing that ever happened to Microsoft, because they

00:40:00   could say, "Hey, we've got a competitor. Look at these guys, these Apple guys. They've got

00:40:04   five percent of the market, a totally different operating system."

00:40:08   And there was a...

00:40:09   Are they cute?

00:40:10   Right. And there was... I think that there was a... I think everybody is largely in agreement

00:40:14   that that was sort of Microsoft's motivation with the investment they made, the famous

00:40:20   on-stage appearance, Big Brother style behind Steve Jobs at the Macworld Expo where they

00:40:24   said, hey, we're going to invest a couple hundred million dollars in non-voting shares.

00:40:31   We're buying some shares that have no special class of shares that doesn't give us any control

00:40:35   over Apple.

00:40:36   We just want to support the company.

00:40:38   And we're committing to make a great version of Internet Explorer for the Mac.

00:40:44   Apple's going to make it their default browser.

00:40:46   And we're committing ourselves right here in public to the next version of Microsoft

00:40:52   Office, which is going to be fully compatible with Windows Office, which all of it was true,

00:40:58   right?

00:40:59   The Internet Explorer was a good Mac browser at the time.

00:41:03   Office was compatible, and it really did, I think, you know, at the time, it really

00:41:08   was essential.

00:41:09   I don't know that Apple would have gone out of business if Microsoft had canceled Office

00:41:13   for Mac, but it certainly would have hurt a company.

00:41:16   It's a big appearance.

00:41:17   Yeah, it's a big appearance thing.

00:41:19   There were certainly a sizable number of Mac users who, if they couldn't have had a version

00:41:25   of Office, maybe couldn't have been, you know, would have had to switch to a Windows PC.

00:41:33   It's funny how big a deal that was back then.

00:41:35   I think about that sometimes, how big an Office suite meant in the '90s.

00:41:40   It was a huge deal because it really was, I think at a very basic level, it was the

00:41:45   reason that people had computers.

00:41:47   Right.

00:41:48   I guess we just we printed a lot more back then.

00:41:51   Printed a lot more.

00:41:52   Printing was a huge deal.

00:41:57   Now sometimes my printer, the yellow light blinks because there's something in it.

00:42:01   It's like a month.

00:42:02   The only time I realize it is when I go to print a boarding pass for my next flight.

00:42:09   For a long time, our main printer has been in my office, and my wife is the only one

00:42:14   that uses it.

00:42:15   I mean it's still every time it fires up it scares me. Yeah, I get I get startled by the noise

00:42:21   And I actually had to turn it off in order to do this podcast

00:42:25   That is this is your wife a printer. She prints more than I do. She prints stuff. Yeah, that's more than I do

00:42:32   Yeah, she's a Karen's just a crazy

00:42:34   Yeah, she will do things like and and smart stuff to like if we're going on a vacation or something

00:42:40   She'll print like an itinerary with all the basic information

00:42:43   And so yeah because I and I just think well it's in my phone somewhere and so like I'll just sit there like a jerk and

00:42:50   Spend 20 minutes trying to find a confirmation code while I'm at the hotel checkout desk

00:42:54   Whereas she's just got like eight pieces of paper that have everything you could want to know right there

00:42:58   But yeah, I mean a couple months a couple months ago

00:43:01   We went skiing and she you know was smart enough to have the foresight to know that we were driving up into the mountains

00:43:06   And would not get good

00:43:08   Cell coverage and so she printed out the the directions and you know and sure enough we got

00:43:13   You know we were like we were just about lost at one point, and I'm like I have no I'm completely

00:43:19   Clueless because I have no cell connection right that's it's you

00:43:24   It's like you're you and I are again exactly in the same boat because I would never think that I've to me printing directions is

00:43:30   Something I did when I was a kid right. It's not something Amanda has today

00:43:34   Got an iPhone

00:43:38   But I do it this really to me highlights the difference between Apple and Microsoft's competitive positions where clearly I

00:43:44   Really don't think that this is even a matter for dispute. This isn't being an Apple fanboy or anything. I mean

00:43:50   Windows RT is chasing iOS. I

00:43:53   Mean and it's going to be

00:43:56   You know that the other thing they're doing is

00:44:00   The next version of Windows Phone is going to be based on the big boy version of Windows. It's going to be a

00:44:07   It's a serious of Paul throat throughout had a good piece

00:44:11   About it just last week. I linked to but

00:44:14   You know, it's a big deal for developers

00:44:17   It's you know, it's gonna look the metro UI will be mostly the same but it's a real significant under-the-hood thing where it's not a

00:44:23   Grown-up version of the old Windows Mobile. It's a cut-down version of Windows 8

00:44:28   And

00:44:31   I think Apple again, there's there's legal arguments and there's technical arguments and the technical side

00:44:37   I think, you know, people have cooled down and it's no longer nobody's as hot under the collar

00:44:43   as they used to be about the App Store rules. There's just the basic idea, not the exceptional

00:44:49   cases where it's, you know, there's some kind of edge case rejection, but just the basic idea that

00:44:56   apps go through the App Store, they're all reviewed. And there's a lot of things, you know,

00:45:02   you've got to play within a tight set of sandbox rules

00:45:05   that keep your app from running amok.

00:45:08   You don't have background privilege

00:45:10   or you have very limited background privileges.

00:45:12   You can't see the whole file system.

00:45:15   You can only see your own data.

00:45:17   >> The sandboxing does still get people,

00:45:22   developers hot under the collar.

00:45:24   >> Well, and it's a different issue on the Mac though.

00:45:26   And part of that, it really highlights,

00:45:28   and I think it shows the problems Microsoft's gonna have

00:45:30   forward is that it was a huge advantage to Apple to say this is a new

00:45:36   thing, this is iOS, and here are the rules and it's all, you know, in fact they

00:45:43   started with literally, here's the, you know, in 2007, five years ago they said

00:45:48   here's your phone running iOS, it has no apps. Like, they started

00:45:54   from a point where third-party developers were told, you know, you can

00:45:58   write a web page. And so they grew from there and so the App Store with all of

00:46:04   its limitations was you know the proverbial glass of ice water in hell

00:46:10   compared to not having any app, third-party apps at all. Whereas trying to

00:46:16   impose these rules on the Mac where developers were pretty much free to, if

00:46:22   if you could make it and it runs, you can do it. Put it on your website, people

00:46:27   download it and you know whether it's an app that sticks to our recommended

00:46:31   guidelines or whether it's you know some kind of kernel kernel plug-in that

00:46:40   implements you know low-level stuff that could freeze the whole machine you can

00:46:45   install it if you want right but do you think they'll always allow that on the

00:46:53   Mac? I do. I don't I really I seriously do. The question I think the bigger

00:46:58   question is how long does the Mac stay around? I mean is the Mac still around

00:47:02   10 years from now? You know 15 years from now? That's the bigger question but

00:47:06   as long as there are Macs I think that that stays. I think and I I I've talked

00:47:13   to people at Apple about it and you know you never know again you can't you know

00:47:17   it's not like they're gonna divulge if they really had a secret plan to to take

00:47:22   that away in Mac OS 10.9, Ocelot, or whatever they're going to call it.

00:47:29   It's not like they would necessarily tell me even in confidence, but just the conversations

00:47:33   I've had with people makes me – I really believe it.

00:47:38   And that's also why I don't believe any kind of stories about iOS and OS X merging,

00:47:43   that there's going to be one OS that – I just don't – there may be similarities,

00:47:50   To me, it's fundamental to the way it works.

00:47:53   It's like once you start with something,

00:47:55   like a set of rules for a game,

00:47:56   it's almost like changing the rules of a game.

00:48:00   Like you just can't change them that much.

00:48:02   Like you can't go in now and say baseball,

00:48:07   you can't be, there's no more left-handed batters

00:48:09   because it's too big of an advantage

00:48:11   because they start four feet closer to first base

00:48:14   than right-handed batters.

00:48:15   So now everybody has to bat from the right side.

00:48:17   Well, you can't do that now.

00:48:18   It might make some kind of logical sense,

00:48:19   but you can't do it.

00:48:22   It's too late.

00:48:22   That's probably a bad example.

00:48:29   - I could, oh, but you know,

00:48:31   I could see Selig doing that.

00:48:32   (laughs)

00:48:34   - Yeah, you know what, I shouldn't say that.

00:48:35   I shouldn't have.

00:48:36   - That sounds like him.

00:48:39   - But I just think, though,

00:48:40   I think one of the reasons that everybody's cooled down

00:48:42   about the iOS rules is that it's clearly worked,

00:48:45   that it has proven to be wildly popular,

00:48:49   and it's

00:48:50   hard even for us even for the type of geeks who

00:48:55   like

00:48:57   i_o_s_ and love their ipads and and love their iphones

00:49:01   uh...

00:49:03   it's hard for us

00:49:04   to and i know it's hard for me to understand how regular people

00:49:09   see computers

00:49:10   people who just that they're

00:49:12   they just really have very little understanding of what the hell is

00:49:15   actually going on

00:49:16   And I just think that you just cannot, there's no way to overstate

00:49:21   the relief that they see

00:49:23   when they're using iPads and iPhones where they feel like they can't screw

00:49:27   anything up.

00:49:28   There's no way to screw it up.

00:49:30   There's nothing you can do

00:49:32   that is going to render this thing

00:49:34   you know broken just by installing software or clicking the wrong button or

00:49:39   something like that.

00:49:40   Which is, you know, and it's a problem on the Mac, you know, that you can

00:49:45   buy stuff and install too much crap in your menu bar that's always running and

00:49:48   all of a sudden safari is slow

00:49:52   i think it's a huge relief

00:49:54   and it's like a peace of mind and i think it's a huge part of the ipads

00:50:00   success

00:50:01   in the market like why people are

00:50:03   buying ipads and using them instead of using laptops uh...

00:50:07   is that these rules

00:50:09   are good for people and it's not the point is not in this you know i i do see

00:50:13   the Free Software Foundation, you know, I see their argument that you don't want all computers

00:50:19   to have this rule, but all computers don't have these rules, right? It's just this huge opportunity,

00:50:24   you know, there was this huge opportunity that Apple was the first to take to make computers

00:50:29   that had these rules. And it's not supposed to be for everybody. It's not, you know, all computers

00:50:34   shouldn't have those rules. But most, I think, should. And I think it's, I just don't, I can't

00:50:41   see how Microsoft should be disallowed from following that with Windows or you know and

00:50:47   again this is another one of those things where I and I personally always attribute it to Balmer

00:50:53   but that this idea that everything has to be called Windows has got to have Windows in the name

00:50:58   somewhere. That's I mean I kind of think that's really holding them back and so many regards.

00:51:03   I mean the names the names become increasingly ridiculous just from a you know the way they sound

00:51:10   because they keep putting different things on the end of Windows.

00:51:14   But also just from a branding perspective

00:51:18   I think people are sort of tired of it.

00:51:22   Maybe that's just from a Mac user perspective, but it doesn't

00:51:26   I mean, having the Xbox not name something Windows

00:51:30   I think is a great advantage for it.

00:51:34   Oh, absolutely, and I think that Xbox is the best

00:51:38   the best example and the bet is it's the only that's the best counter and it's the only saying

00:51:42   that we need to slap windows on everything exactly and it's the best even if and i presume again i've

00:51:47   never i don't i certainly haven't written an xbox game but i i presume and i i i think that it's this

00:51:53   is actually true that writing games for the xbox is largely or at least in many ways similar to

00:52:00   writing games for Windows.

00:52:02   You know, that if you're good at writing,

00:52:04   you know, like id software type games,

00:52:09   you know, Quake and those type of games,

00:52:12   for the PC on Windows, that a lot of the techniques you use

00:52:17   and the code you use can be reused on Xbox.

00:52:19   You know, that so, in the same way that iOS and OS X share

00:52:23   these fundamental technologies, the Xbox does too,

00:52:25   but they just don't call it that.

00:52:28   - Right.

00:52:29   And I do think that that really hurts.

00:52:31   And I think it hurts them in this argument.

00:52:33   And I see people who are,

00:52:35   I see that there's a lot of people

00:52:36   supporting the Mozilla argument

00:52:38   that they shouldn't be allowed to do this for Windows RT.

00:52:42   And again, it does kinda stink.

00:52:46   And there's trade-offs.

00:52:48   Nobody's saying that these rules like in the App Store

00:52:51   and the way that they wanna run Windows RT,

00:52:53   that there aren't downsides to these rules.

00:52:58   I think clearly the fact that Macs and PCs can run alternate browsers that can be set

00:53:03   as the default, that there's been way more innovation in the browser space because of

00:53:08   Firefox and Google Chrome and all the WebKit type stuff than there would have been otherwise.

00:53:17   Maybe somebody else is going to come out with a browser for mobile devices that iPhone users

00:53:22   are going to be left out in a cold front because they can't install it from the App Store.

00:53:26   It's possible.

00:53:27   You know, it seems silly to think that WebKit, mobile WebKit, is always going to be the preeminent

00:53:33   browser engine.

00:53:34   Right.

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00:54:25   so you're with me on this that you think that that

00:54:28   that the uh...

00:54:29   windows r_t_ the restrictions on windows r_t_ are reasonable

00:54:33   if if not

00:54:34   yeah i don't think i mean i don't think there's any way that you could look at

00:54:37   i mean you can't

00:54:38   it seems like if you look at the letter of the agreement

00:54:41   in and of itself that it's clear that it's

00:54:44   focused on intel based hardware

00:54:46   and

00:54:47   and then from a

00:54:48   purely

00:54:49   rational aspect of looking at the market, they have no monopoly over the tablet market.

00:54:55   So that agreement does not really apply.

00:55:01   And it sort of seems like, I mean, the guy from Mozilla who was, he's a lawyer, so he's

00:55:09   looking at it from a legal perspective, and he seemed to be saying, I mean, he did seem

00:55:14   like they might be taking action or trying to take action, but he also seemed to be sort

00:55:18   of insinuating that it was against the spirit of the law of the settlement, which, you know,

00:55:26   maybe you can make that case, but companies aren't bound by the spirit of a settlement,

00:55:34   really, bound by the law.

00:55:38   And you can't really fault them.

00:55:39   I mean, Apple would do the same thing.

00:55:42   Right.

00:55:43   I completely agree.

00:55:46   But I think it's going to be fascinating to see how it plays out.

00:55:48   And I really do think, and it's, you know, the Shakespeare quote, "A rose by any other

00:55:54   name would smell just as nice," whatever the hell he said.

00:55:58   What the hell, Shakespeare, you can rewrite the guy.

00:56:04   I really think it would make a difference if it were called Metro OS.

00:56:08   You know, I always, that's my idea.

00:56:11   My free consultation to them is that they should call Windows for ARM Metro OS or just

00:56:16   Metro.

00:56:17   Just say this is Metro and you can get it on your phones, you can get it on your tablets,

00:56:21   you can even get it on a laptop.

00:56:25   And if it's under the hood, the Windows kernel and all of this code that's exactly the same

00:56:32   as Windows, more power to them.

00:56:35   That's an engineering win where you're not duplicating effort but you don't brand.

00:56:39   And I'm telling you, if they did that, I think that their argument would carry a lot less

00:56:43   weight.

00:56:45   It's just another reason why I think that the argument doesn't carry weight, is if they

00:56:48   just change the name of the thing, it seems like all the logic doesn't apply.

00:56:52   How can they have a monopoly with an operating system that isn't even out yet?

00:56:56   For devices...

00:56:57   It is a little weird.

00:56:58   I mean, we probably agree on this too, but the fact that they still have the full desktop

00:57:04   experience, and that they will ship a full version of Office for Windows RT and whatever

00:57:15   other applications that Microsoft deems worthy of getting a pass.

00:57:22   And having used Windows 8, it's the whole switching back and forth between Metro and

00:57:29   the traditional Windows desktop is a jarring experience.

00:57:33   And that I don't understand.

00:57:36   And I think you've posted this before too, though.

00:57:38   But just the fact, I mean, they should have jettisoned

00:57:43   the Windows desktop on ARM.

00:57:47   That would have made a lot more sense.

00:57:48   - Right, and I just feel, it's just another one

00:57:50   of those things where there's trade-offs, you know?

00:57:53   And everybody knows, everybody is at least halfway

00:57:55   a geek, knows that it can be frustrating

00:57:58   on the iPhone, especially on the iPad.

00:58:00   I think it's more of a deal on the iPad

00:58:02   because you can work on the iPad.

00:58:05   And sometimes you just feel like,

00:58:06   I wish I could just get a list of all the files

00:58:09   on this thing.

00:58:10   Just show me a list of all these files

00:58:12   and let me just drag, take this one and say,

00:58:14   I wanna open this one in that app.

00:58:16   Or I wanna take this file and send it to my Mac at home.

00:58:21   And sometimes the fact that there is no,

00:58:24   the equivalent of a finder,

00:58:25   whether it looked like the finder or not,

00:58:27   but that there's no app that's like that, it's frustrating.

00:58:31   But there's a simplicity win, though,

00:58:33   that if it isn't even there, then every app

00:58:37   has to kind of encapsulate its data in a simpler way.

00:58:43   Like the fact that it's not there,

00:58:44   and that developers can't say, well, just go to Explorer

00:58:47   and change the file extension, and it should fix itself.

00:58:50   That if you don't even have the option of telling your users

00:58:52   that you've got to do the work to present the data

00:58:57   in a simpler way.

00:58:58   I do think that it is gonna be,

00:59:01   I think it just seems crazy that you can get

00:59:04   this brand new tablet with this fancy, lovely looking,

00:59:09   whether it's something you really wanna use all the time,

00:59:13   I think it's up for debate, Metro.

00:59:16   But it looks nice, and it certainly looks new,

00:59:18   and it certainly doesn't look like anything

00:59:20   Windows has ever done before.

00:59:21   And then all of a sudden you hit the Explorer button

00:59:23   and you're in Windows 7 all over again.

00:59:27   - Yeah.

00:59:29   Which I sort of take that as a compliment to us

00:59:34   that we all seem to like,

00:59:35   lots of Mac users have said that they like

00:59:37   the Metro interface and so there.

00:59:41   We weren't just knee-jerk Apple apologists

00:59:46   for all those years where we said we hated Windows,

00:59:47   we really hated Windows.

00:59:48   - Yeah, I totally agree with that.

00:59:51   totally agree with that

00:59:52   uh... you know i just like nice things that's what i've always said i'd just

00:59:55   like nice things and it just happens to be that

00:59:58   a lot of these companies never make nice things

01:00:02   what else we got here the wall street journal confirmed today or not

01:00:05   they did they they left themselves in wiggle room

01:00:08   but they said that uh... apple is going to switch to four inch iphone displays

01:00:12   the rain luck and euro or saw one reporting for the wall street journal

01:00:17   as uh... the new iphone that apple incorporated is expected to unveil this

01:00:21   year is likely to have a larger display than its current models have

01:00:25   with the company ordering bigger screens from its asian suppliers people familiar

01:00:29   with the matter

01:00:32   we would like to see if we ever form a band

01:00:35   we're talking before the show that may be doing a song

01:00:38   i don't know i'd

01:00:39   and we'll wait on another episode

01:00:41   but if we do

01:00:42   i think maybe a name for our band people familiar with the matter

01:00:46   Yeah, no, that's a good name for a band

01:00:48   Or a band of by people who do maybe media criticism

01:00:54   All the songs will be about media criticism I

01:00:58   Feel like are you looking at the the the the one that has the picture of the guy holding the white iPhone

01:01:04   I think so. I think that was what it was. Yeah, he's only got four fingers. No, I didn't see that

01:01:08   That's true

01:01:13   It's got a thumb and three fingers. I think he's one of the Simpson kids

01:01:16   You know, I had a conversation with Jonas about that about why why do so many cartoon characters only have

01:01:23   Three fingers and a thumb. Yeah, and he did not buy my explanation that it's easier to draw and

01:01:29   And looks better

01:01:32   He's well, did he have an alternate explanation? No, he thinks that I'm hiding the truth from you know that

01:01:40   He's not buying that

01:01:43   Huh

01:01:45   There was an episode. I believe there was an episode where of The Simpsons where Homer imagined what his kids would look like

01:01:51   If they were regular they were actual

01:01:54   And he said something about five-fingered freaks and they showed they showed a picture of them drawing more more normal looking

01:02:01   And I believe he I believe he cried out in terror. I do see this picture of the guy holding the white iPhone

01:02:09   Yeah, which is a normal. You know that's the way right that he's got his index

01:02:13   I don't behind it yeah the index fingers just in but it's completely yeah, but it you know it does look like he's got four fingers

01:02:19   Like maybe he was got caught shoplifting in Singapore or something which of you

01:02:27   That would suck to it wouldn't it suck if they if if you got caught shoplifting in one of these countries

01:02:35   When you're gonna lose a finger and they go right for the index finger

01:02:38   instead of the pinky. Oh, that would be terrible. And then if you gripe, I bet they're like,

01:02:44   "You're lucky we didn't take the thumb."

01:02:45   Exactly. Oh, man. Can you imagine taking the thumb? That's one of my worst. That's one

01:02:51   of my worst.

01:02:52   Yeah, that is.

01:02:53   I mean, because then you're just not even human anymore.

01:02:55   Well, you remember a couple of months ago when I had that goofy finger injury.

01:02:59   Oh, yeah. That's right. That happened.

01:03:01   And I had that cast or brace on all the way up to my elbow, but I still had my thumb.

01:03:07   And it was incredibly frustrating to have my whole left hand in this thing and be unable

01:03:15   to use any of my fingers for a couple of weeks.

01:03:18   But the fact that I still had the thumb was surprisingly useful.

01:03:23   Surprisingly useful.

01:03:24   And I just remember thinking, "If I didn't have that thumb, I would be..."

01:03:29   I mean, I could...

01:03:30   It was hard, but if I had something in my right hand, I could...

01:03:33   With that thumb, I could eventually open a doorknob.

01:03:36   Yeah, yeah, I noticed also think about how hard it is for my dog. I mean the dog does not have thumbs and

01:03:43   Just the way he has to the way he has to hold something. He's chewing them

01:03:47   True that's no life

01:03:51   That's no way to live

01:03:53   we'd like to think that we're so smart and that

01:03:56   We've you know, we've got these great minds that have separated us from the rest of the animal kingdom

01:04:03   But really all we've got are good thumbs right if he had thumbs he could replace me in our right

01:04:07   God imagine if the dolphins had thumbs oh

01:04:11   We would be man. We have to be so screwed

01:04:16   We're already not the smartest species on the planet right I they would just be able to better prove it right or

01:04:23   Elephants imagine if elephants had thumbs yeah, they could really kick some ass

01:04:30   The orangutans, so like there's a I mean, this is a stupid

01:04:33   story but

01:04:35   Orangutans using iPads. I saw that where I didn't read it though. I saw it and we're like what I didn't read it either

01:04:41   But they're like one step away from Planet of the Apes

01:04:43   You give those orangutans iPads and were you know, right now they're like communicating and stuff right? They're making plans

01:04:51   They're gonna get on Facebook

01:04:53   they're gonna start talking to each other and

01:04:56   then and then

01:04:58   The next thing you know

01:05:00   You're running through the brush with Charlton Heston

01:05:02   This four inch iPhone thing I've talked about this before and I've heard whispers about it. I still don't know that it's certain nobody

01:05:09   Apple it people used to tell me things at Apple and now they don't tell me anymore

01:05:13   I don't think that I think they've gotten way more secretive than before

01:05:16   And I've I've been saying this to people I've had a lot of people ask me after Steve Jobs died

01:05:22   Do you think Apple's gonna know maybe open up a little bit more?

01:05:24   I honestly I for everything I've observed over the last nine months or maybe even call it a year

01:05:29   because I think clearly Jobs started winding down his management before he

01:05:35   actually retired. I think they've only gotten more secretive in my

01:05:40   experience. But the thing I've heard is that if they go to a

01:05:46   four-inch, it's gonna stay the same width and they're just gonna make it taller

01:05:50   and it's gonna have the same pixel density. In other words, the same number

01:05:54   pixels print. So they're gonna add more pixels, make a more like a

01:05:59   wider screen display or a taller screen display, whatever you want to

01:06:03   call it. And that, you know, well what about developers? Developers, you know,

01:06:09   assume that this exact pixel count, but that there already are things like when

01:06:13   you're on a phone call and you have like a double height status bar. You're

01:06:19   already supposed to make your app a little bit flexible in that dimension.

01:06:25   You know, and apparently some some apps don't do that as well as others. They

01:06:29   don't shrink. They just let that green double-sized status bar take up space.

01:06:35   But I think that that's, you know, that's the answer. Because I don't think the

01:06:41   other thing is I don't think that they want to make a physically bigger phone.

01:06:45   Like, to me, what's ridiculous with the Android giant phones is not the fact that the screen

01:06:51   is bigger.

01:06:52   A bigger screen is better in general for a phone, but bigger devices are worse.

01:06:58   To me, that's the tradeoff involved.

01:07:01   Bigger screen, yes, terrific.

01:07:03   Bigger device, heavier, takes up more space in your pocket, harder to hold in one hand,

01:07:08   not good.

01:07:09   So, you know.

01:07:10   Yeah.

01:07:11   But if they can keep the device the same size and devote more of the front face to the screen,

01:07:18   why not?

01:07:22   Because I'm holding my iPhone in my hand right now, and I can comfortably – well, not completely

01:07:27   comfortably – but I can touch all four corners with my thumb.

01:07:31   And if it gets – well, maybe if it gets taller, actually, I think I could.

01:07:35   Right.

01:07:36   Especially if you think –

01:07:37   That upper corner, maybe.

01:07:38   I mean, that one, but still, pretty close.

01:07:40   And if it were half of it were at the top, half the extra pixels were at the top and

01:07:43   half were at the bottom.

01:07:47   To me, I don't think it really would make that big of a difference.

01:07:49   It might be a little bit harder to get to the corner.

01:07:52   But I mean, I think Apple clearly, you know, is aware of that.

01:07:55   Everybody knows that they take these phones out.

01:07:57   I'm sure if you went to any beer garden in the San Jose area, greater Cupertino area,

01:08:03   you could see dozens of these phones being used recklessly and left behind on barstools,

01:08:09   night of the week. I mean, they famously test these things. You know, they're not going

01:08:13   to make it so big that you can't, that it's harder to get corner to corner.

01:08:17   They probably, I bet they have a case that makes it look like a Galaxy tab or a Galaxy note.

01:08:22   The stylus on the side.

01:08:27   So I think it's totally believable. What I would not believe would be if these reports

01:08:31   were coming out saying that Apple is going to make a phone that is a lot bigger, physically

01:08:35   bigger. You know everything I've heard is that if they go to a bigger screen it's

01:08:41   bigger in that one dimension. Same physical size, taller screen. Right and I've also

01:08:45   talked about this that the way that they make these screens is they make I mean

01:08:51   again I'm you know I could be talking out of my ass here but my understanding

01:08:55   is the way LCD screens are made is that they make big big sheets of these things

01:08:59   and they find sec they identify sections that are known you know that don't have

01:09:03   dead pixels and then they cut cut them to size so it's like you know like

01:09:09   imagine a big sheet of paper and then you just cut little three and a half

01:09:13   inch rectangles out of it and boom here's an iPhone screen here's an iPhone

01:09:17   screen so if they the way that they would make these screens is they would

01:09:20   be using the exact same sheets as the current iPhone retina display and they

01:09:25   would just be cutting slightly taller rectangles out of them and if you think

01:09:30   Think of that, you know—

01:09:31   That sounds crazy.

01:09:33   That sounds crazy.

01:09:34   I mean, you're probably right.

01:09:35   I mean, because I know nothing about that, but that just sounds like you're making

01:09:38   taffy.

01:09:40   I think it sort of is.

01:09:41   And so from an economies of scale perspective and this sort of—

01:09:46   Right.

01:09:47   —the Tim Cook—

01:09:48   You don't have to retool anything.

01:09:50   Exactly.

01:09:51   You just—you wait another nanosecond as the thing's coming through and then you—

01:09:54   Right.

01:09:55   From a Tim Cook operational genius perspective, it makes a lot of sense.

01:09:59   Right.

01:10:00   And that's also the argument behind the – it's the exact same argument behind the

01:10:05   rumored 7.82568-inch iPad.

01:10:12   You know, this –

01:10:13   Oh, is it just the other way?

01:10:14   Well, it would be the – if you took the iPhone 3GS screen, the classic pre-retina

01:10:26   iPhone LCD.

01:10:30   And you took that exact LCD, but imagine it as a big sheet the size of a table.

01:10:36   And you cut a 1024 by 768 pixel rectangle out of it.

01:10:41   It comes out to be exactly 7.82 inches or something like that, which is exactly the

01:10:48   rumored size of the smaller iPod.

01:10:51   So in other words, these LCD screens that Apple has been producing ever since the first

01:10:57   iPhone, because that's – the 3GS has the exact same LCD display as the original iPhone

01:11:04   that they're still making today and still is apparently a pretty popular phone.

01:11:08   It's like the third most popular phone at AT&T.

01:11:12   They don't have to make a new display for a smaller iPad.

01:11:15   They just have to cut bigger size out of the displays that they're already making.

01:11:20   right and a presumably that would be you know by apples standards super cheap

01:11:25   because they've got you know it's old technology you know it's pre retinoids

01:11:29   right right you ever tried one of these supersized phones no I've I've got the

01:11:38   you've got it you've got a couple of what you've got a Windows Lumi I got the

01:11:45   loop but I have the Lumi oh you have Lumi I have the Lumi 800 though not the

01:11:48   900 which is not the one it's on sale but it's I love it I like it better and

01:11:52   I've I've I've tried the 900 I think the 800 is better I like what I really do

01:11:58   because it's more comfortable in my hand it's it is very very roughly it is

01:12:04   iPhone sized more or less but like this rumored 4-inch iPhone it's got a 3.7

01:12:11   inch screen it's a because it's 16 to 9 so it's taller it's got a you know more

01:12:17   of the front, a little bit more of the front face is devoted to the screen than on the

01:12:21   iPhone. And I find that nothing but pleasing. But it fits in my hand like the iPhone and,

01:12:28   you know, so it's a little bit bigger. It's like, it's not quite four inches. It's like

01:12:33   three point seven five inches diagonal. But I don't have any trouble going corner to corner

01:12:37   with my thumbs. Just feels great in my hand. But the Galaxy Nexus, the top of the line

01:12:44   Android phone which is I think I swear I'm not making this up I think it's like

01:12:48   a 4.8 inch display it's it's just too big it's too big to use with one hand it

01:12:56   really is it is it's nice to use with two hands it you know and and I'm not

01:13:01   surprised and I you know I think I've said this before the way that Android is

01:13:06   meant to work where they're supposed to be a variety of devices not surprised at

01:13:10   all that some people would prefer a sort of as big as a phone could get without being

01:13:17   laughed at phone.

01:13:18   Right.

01:13:19   I'm not surprised at all that there's a lot of people who do that.

01:13:21   No, I'm not either.

01:13:22   And that's the whole advantage of that whole model, that you can get this sort of variety

01:13:27   that you're never going to get from Apple because Apple is insane about these economies

01:13:32   of scale and they're not going to make two new phones that are only slightly different

01:13:38   in size.

01:13:39   to do it. I'm still shocked that there are 4,000 distinct Android ROMs. I mean

01:13:48   that just seems like a crazy number. This is from Ars Technica.

01:13:53   Casey Johnston. Android fragmentation. One developer encounters

01:13:58   There's 3,997 devices.

01:14:03   It's just…

01:14:07   I mean, I have no idea how…

01:14:13   I saw a…

01:14:14   How that happened.

01:14:15   Did you see their story the other day about the game developer who took a picture of their

01:14:19   testing room and they have all their Android phones out on one table?

01:14:22   It wasn't 4,000 phones, but they had like a table with 300 Android phones on it.

01:14:27   Yeah.

01:14:31   And 3,000 of them are from Samsung.

01:14:33   I wonder, you know, just to play devil's advocate for a second,

01:14:39   you know, is it fair to say that there's 4,000 phones you have to support?

01:14:44   I mean, how is that different than if you're a Windows developer

01:14:48   and the number of PCs that are out there?

01:14:49   I mean, it's probably almost infinite, the number of different PCs.

01:14:56   Yeah.

01:14:57   But, on the other hand, I don't see Windows developers... there must be some other differences,

01:15:05   though.

01:15:06   It must be harder.

01:15:07   It must be different with mobile, because you don't see Windows developers saying, "Our

01:15:10   new game..."

01:15:11   There's too many devices.

01:15:12   Right.

01:15:13   Or they don't have a list, "Our game runs on the HP Pavilion, blah, blah, blah, the Samsung..."

01:15:17   Well, for years, I mean, sound cards have always been a big issue.

01:15:21   And video cards.

01:15:22   I mean, those two things, I mean, really, for game development, it is a pain in the

01:15:25   ass and they have to, you know, they have to be really careful about what they do and

01:15:29   try and hit the top, um, top cards.

01:15:32   That's, you know, that's probably exactly it, is that Android is back in the pre-Microsoft

01:15:39   sort of put the hammer down and sort of said, "Look, enough of this nonsense with sound

01:15:43   cards and stuff like that. If you want, if you want to run the new version of Windows,

01:15:47   you've got to have this, that, and the other," you know, all of these specs.

01:15:50   And Google doesn't seem, Google doesn't have that leverage.

01:15:52   I think that's the difference is that

01:15:54   Microsoft cleaned up. I mean as fragmented as the PC market can be at a certain point Microsoft said look

01:16:01   Here's the baseline and it covered everything

01:16:04   It covered everything from the processor to the video to the sound card and you can use whatever you want

01:16:10   but these are the minimum requirements and if you don't meet all these minimum requirements, you don't get Windows and

01:16:15   If you don't have Windows good luck selling your PC, right?

01:16:18   And it really did help and I think that's exactly where Android is is sort of back in the you've got to have the certain certain

01:16:25   Sound card or you've got to be able to run OpenGL 4.1

01:16:29   You know a good luck with your you know

01:16:32   Typical person knowing whether their Android phone is capable of the newest version of open GL

01:16:37   this map of the map of all the different device types, it looks like a

01:16:42   Was it a Mandel brought? Yeah, it's just like

01:16:47   Because it has the major ones over the left and then it could show that the size is a proportional size for each square

01:16:53   Is that there I guess the number of devices out there and this gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller

01:16:58   It's like it's like it's a fractal

01:17:00   It's just crazy

01:17:04   Things we don't Apple developers don't have to worry about

01:17:12   No

01:17:15   What else is going on there's something else I wanted to talk to you about

01:17:18   About this Ashton Kutcher dress like Steve Jobs. Oh, yeah. I really don't care. I

01:17:25   Really? I have no

01:17:29   hopes or expectations for either of these two movies and I mean

01:17:33   just I have people seem to be getting right about Ashton Kutcher and like and then excited about

01:17:42   Sorkin writing the other one and I just I really do not care. All right, I think I'm with you on that that I don't

01:17:48   I don't care. I would be great. I hope both movies are good. I hope they're great

01:17:53   I hope I hope every movie that's ever made is great, but it's not gonna happen

01:17:57   But here's the thing and I I mentioned this and my wife pointed it out and I had sort of thought about it

01:18:01   but my wife really called it out is

01:18:03   What the hell is he doing dressed as Steve Jobs out getting coffee? Like is he was he on his way to the set?

01:18:11   Do actors typically oh I assumed I yeah, I assumed that well, I assumed that that was part of

01:18:16   He was photographed like coming out of a Starbucks, right?

01:18:19   He's okay

01:18:21   He's got like a like a cup of coffee like iced coffee in his hand and he's dressed like he looks like he's trying to

01:18:26   Walk like Steve Jobs do but he's got like young Steve Jobs hair

01:18:31   Yeah, and and then a ran old Steve Jobs is outfit on

01:18:36   Like jobs when he had a thick head full of hair never wore that outfit

01:18:42   to my knowledge that the black turtleneck and jeans and New Balance thing was a

01:18:47   like

01:18:48   1997 he was spotted as he made his way to the set of the

01:18:52   Late Apple CEOs biopic. So yeah, and he's got like a nice. Oh my thought I see

01:18:59   My thought is that maybe he's doing like some kind of method actor

01:19:03   Right, you know if he wants to be Steve Jobs on screen, he's got to be him all the time. He's good

01:19:08   And that maybe he's not in costume

01:19:11   He's that's just what he's wearing in his daily life now to stay in that Steve Jobs mindset

01:19:18   And then he shows firing a person every day right like he shows up and then to get in a costume

01:19:22   He's playing Steve Jobs circa like 1982 and he's putting on like a plaid shirt and and some 80s

01:19:29   short ass jeans or whatever the hell Jobs was wearing back then and that he's just doing this and

01:19:33   Amy was like, I mean you really I mean, yeah, Ashton Kutcher method actor. He's like the next Bob DeNiro

01:19:40   I'm like, I'm not saying it's good acting advice

01:19:42   I'm saying it seems to me like the sort of crazy idea Ashton Kutcher would get in his hair about how he needs to be

01:19:47   Right. I'm not saying that this is how a good actor needs to do it

01:19:51   Yeah, you know, I don't I don't think uh, he read it. He read it in a book somewhere, right?

01:19:58   I don't and an in-flight magazine

01:19:59   I don't think Robert Downey jr. Had to you know wear the Iron Man suit out to get coffee

01:20:03   Just to get into donuts you are that to get diets

01:20:07   They're like just roll just roll with it roll roll camera. This is great

01:20:12   Yeah, I just I have a hard time getting worked up over it

01:20:18   The whole thing seems kind of dumb

01:20:26   How about the

01:20:28   This is a good one Glenn Britt CEO of Time Warner Cable

01:20:32   Yeah, I'm not sure I know what airplay is

01:20:36   So utterly unsurprising

01:20:41   No, yeah, not surprising so clearly telling

01:20:45   Like it would be one thing if the CEO of Time Warner Cable

01:20:49   Blew off airplay if it was asked about it in public and just said, you know

01:20:54   I just I don't really think it's that relevant - I don't think it's relevant or something like that

01:20:58   But to be genuinely genuinely confused and say you don't know what it is

01:21:02   You know and I don't think that again. I don't think

01:21:06   This is the sort of thing that that you and I and guys on our rack

01:21:10   you kind of have to get our heads around is covering Apple the

01:21:14   industry Goliath as opposed to Apple the

01:21:17   upstart

01:21:19   Right, and I don't think again. I don't think it's being an Apple fanboy to say hey AirPlay is an important technology

01:21:26   I think that it's hey if your business is

01:21:29   showing people TV shows and video

01:21:32   You've got I mean, how can you not be worried about what app that's the it seems like that's just a problem

01:21:38   With that kind of that kind of executives in that industry

01:21:43   I wouldn't be surprised if none of them know what it is. They're much more focused on making deals

01:21:51   with

01:21:54   partners than they are, you know, on technology.

01:21:56   But if I'm the CEO of Time Warner Cable, I would be terrified of Apple.

01:22:01   I would be so paranoid, or paranoid at least, maybe terrified is the wrong word, but I would be

01:22:07   paranoid about Apple and I would look at anything Apple did that was even vaguely related to

01:22:13   TV movies and video and

01:22:16   I would study that with a fine-tooth comb because they're Apple. They're they're the hundred billion dollar a year

01:22:22   Goliath

01:22:24   Well, that would be the smart thing to do, right?

01:22:26   I think we're we're already beyond that now and I do I just think it's one of those ways that Apple is

01:22:34   Because they were dormant for so long that people underestimate them like I don't think that

01:22:42   that if you know to go back 10 years to when Microsoft was the

01:22:47   You know again to circle back to the Department of Justice era that that late 90s Microsoft

01:22:52   I think that CEO of Time Warner knew exactly what Microsoft's like set-top TV plans were at the time

01:22:58   May not have been worried about him, but I think he was aware of them

01:23:02   Yeah, because they were dangerous

01:23:04   Right, I guess I guess I don't know I mean I

01:23:10   Mean, I don't yeah, and I really don't know. I mean I have no

01:23:16   Recollection of reading anything about it at the time and no I haven't followed that industry that closely like that, but

01:23:23   It just seems like these guys

01:23:26   Don't operate that way

01:23:29   It's their heads are so far up their asses. It's a ridiculous

01:23:33   So like I know mg seagull has been banging the drum on this thing forever with HBO shows not being available

01:23:39   Yeah

01:23:42   to buy

01:23:43   right and

01:23:45   Just was somebody did a study last week where they figured out that Game of Thrones is like the most pirated TV show ever

01:23:52   and

01:23:55   It's like do you not see the connection between the fact that you can't buy the episodes?

01:23:59   Until like a year and a half after they're done airing then they'll come out with them on like then they'll put them on Apple TV

01:24:06   And they put out the DVD. Yeah, and the fact that it's the most pirated show

01:24:10   Right on television and there and their response is basically the beatings will be

01:24:14   Morale and exactly, you know, and we're good now you're gonna need to buy you to get I mean in order I forget

01:24:23   What this is but you know, like you need to have a cable subscription in order to get our content

01:24:28   Yes

01:24:29   And this is the thing and it ties in with airplay and I find it very frustrating for me in particular with Game of Thrones

01:24:34   So I didn't watch Game of Thrones last year my new policy on TV shows and it has served me very well is I?

01:24:40   Don't watch any new shows and I wait until season one is over and if people are still saying good things about it

01:24:47   Then maybe I'll buy the whole thing and or I'll watch the pilot and if it's good

01:24:52   then I'll buy the whole series and I'll watch him like in a binge like seven nights in a row.

01:24:56   And I did that with Game of Thrones and I enjoyed it very much. Unsurprisingly, as a geek, I,

01:25:02   you know, thought it was terrific fun and very well done and sort of, you know, like a nice,

01:25:08   let's take this sort of vaguely Dungeons and Dragons milieu and up the production values and

01:25:17   sort of take it in a realistic quote unquote. And you and you famously did not like the Lord of the

01:25:23   Rings. I did not like the Lord of the Rings. Yeah. And that is very famous. So that's interesting.

01:25:28   I have not seen it. I have not seen it yet and I have plans to see it and I'm looking forward

01:25:33   to watching it. The Game of Thrones? Yeah, Game of Thrones. Because I want to get into it and I,

01:25:40   but at the same time I also know that season two is still airing now. Is that right? Yeah.

01:25:45   And I think that what's going to happen is I'm going to watch season one,

01:25:49   and then I'm going to want season two immediately, and I won't be able to get it for, you know,

01:25:53   48 months or whatever HBO designs.

01:25:57   So, in a way, I'm kind of like, I know I want to watch it, but I'm holding on for a little longer

01:26:02   just to try and shorten that time frame.

01:26:07   Because of this stuff. Because they won't.

01:26:10   Well, here's the thing.

01:26:10   Or put it up on iTunes the next day.

01:26:12   The insane frustration for me is that they have this HBO Go app, which is actually pretty

01:26:17   well done.

01:26:18   And it's a real pain to set up at first because it's not you.

01:26:23   They don't just want your money.

01:26:24   You can't just say, "Here, let me pay you $20 a month and watch all of your stuff."

01:26:28   You have to have, like you said, you have to have a cable subscription that has HBO.

01:26:34   We do.

01:26:35   you sign in, I sign in with my Comcast ID and a Comcast password and HBO verifies it.

01:26:42   I guess it's one of the benefits of the fact that there's only a handful of giant

01:26:48   cable companies now. But Comcast is clearly a big one. So, correction, I'm sorry, Xfinity,

01:26:56   right? That's what the... Comcast is the company and Xfinity is the cable service because everybody

01:27:03   started associating Comcast with crap. But anyway, but I have it. See smart, smart move

01:27:09   there. I have it. Well, that's, you know, that's the bet. Again, the benefits of changing

01:27:13   the name, but, uh, right, exactly. But I have it and it works. And so I can watch season

01:27:17   two game of thrones on my iPad or iPhone, but I don't want to watch them on my iPad

01:27:22   or iPhone. I have a big giant 168 inch TV in my living room that I want to watch it

01:27:26   on and it doesn't support airplay and it doesn't support the the whatever the dingus you connect

01:27:34   to the bottom you know the video out thing the thing you you connected in the 30 pin dock and

01:27:39   then put an hdmi to your tv so that you can it doesn't support that like it gives you this

01:27:44   because i thought i was being clever and i thought that i thought that worked with anything

01:27:49   i thought you could always mirror your ipad or iphone onto the tv with that thing but you connect

01:27:54   it and then you fire up the HBO Go app and the system gives you this error that's sort

01:27:59   of like the jackasses who run the company behind the app you've given won't allow their

01:28:05   content to go out over the HDMI cable that is connected to this iPhone.

01:28:10   I know you can't believe this crap.

01:28:13   And I know that they've done all this stuff and verified that you've got a cable subscription

01:28:19   and are already paying them and there's really no possible argument that could be made that

01:28:24   preventing this from being played on the TV makes any sense whatsoever but you've

01:28:28   got to believe us cancel or okay right oh you have a TiVo right yes but so why

01:28:37   don't you record on TiVo well one problem is that I started get it I did

01:28:43   the whole season one Game of Thrones things after season two started so I

01:28:47   missed like the first episode or something anyway and the other problem

01:28:49   Oh, okay, so.

01:28:50   The other problem.

01:28:51   So HBO Go shows you older stuff.

01:28:54   Yes, well, no, but you can also,

01:28:57   no, no.

01:29:00   No?

01:29:01   No, HBO Go has all of the Game of Thrones.

01:29:03   Like, you could see it's--

01:29:04   Yeah, that's what I mean.

01:29:05   It'll show you--

01:29:06   Right, but my TiVo recording it from HBO

01:29:08   can't go back in time to get episode one of season two.

01:29:11   Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

01:29:12   And the other problem that we have is that

01:29:16   we have a dual cable card TiVo.

01:29:19   Yeah and one of the cable cards works perfectly and the second one works for anything except

01:29:27   the HBO and it just gives you a black screen and you can't tell the TiVo hey that cable

01:29:33   card doesn't get it so 50% of the time we try to record something on HBO it's it's just

01:29:39   black and everybody thinks well why don't you just call Comcast and have this fixed

01:29:44   And the reason is that we had guys out here like four times to get these.

01:29:51   They don't want to give you cable cards.

01:29:53   That's the thing.

01:29:54   And so when they send you, it's super passive aggressive and they send like their worst

01:29:57   text and a guy never showed up with more than two cable cards.

01:30:02   And usually it would be like one didn't work at all.

01:30:06   And then he would say, "Well, you know, what do you want to do?"

01:30:09   And I would say, "Well, that one doesn't work at all.

01:30:12   I would like to have two that work, which is what I'm paying for."

01:30:16   And he'd be like, "All right.

01:30:17   Well, what day are you going to be here?"

01:30:18   And I'll schedule another guy to come out.

01:30:20   And then another guy would come out with two cable cards, and he would take the other two.

01:30:24   And I would say, "Well, can you just leave that one that seems to be working in and just

01:30:27   replace the other one?"

01:30:28   And he said, "No, no.

01:30:29   It's already been canceled because as soon as I showed up and I hit this button, your

01:30:33   old cable cards were deactivated."

01:30:34   They were like SIM cards, sort of.

01:30:36   The old SIM card, you know, these old cable cards are deactivated, and you have to use

01:30:40   these two.

01:30:41   only got you know these channels and one didn't get the other and that fourth

01:30:45   time the guy had showed up again and I said and I would say like for the fourth

01:30:49   appointment can you tell the guy to bring more than two and they'd be like oh

01:30:52   yeah and put a note in the thing bring a bunch of them and a guy shows up he's

01:30:56   got two only two one worked perfectly the other one worked with everything

01:31:00   except HBO and Amy and I looked each other like get out of here go go so

01:31:06   that's why I don't have Game of Thrones on HBO but I have it on my

01:31:11   HBO Go app and I can't airplay it to my TV even though it's right here and and

01:31:16   the TV is right there and the Time Warner they when coding that app they

01:31:21   can choose to make the app not airplay and yep and they can also choose to make

01:31:26   it not HDMI out enabled right which you know and I presume that if Apple hadn't

01:31:35   made those things available that there would not be an H they would rather not

01:31:40   even have it they would never have done it in the first place because they don't

01:31:44   want people right but I honestly can't see what they're what the argument is

01:31:48   like whoever it is who has that like yes or no I mean you are you're already

01:31:54   paying for it right on here and they verify it and they you know it is I

01:31:58   don't see right it's I just feel like it would be like if I could find the guy at

01:32:05   HBO who has the authority the guy who could say all right let's turn airplay

01:32:10   on in the next release. I can make this happen if I sign my name on this line right here.

01:32:16   I would love to have an argument with that guy and see what he – I feel though that

01:32:21   if I had the argument with him, that his explanation, he would use biz dev terms that would give

01:32:29   me a headache. I would come out of it and not actually understand what he said. I would

01:32:36   come out like I just had the conversation in German, which I don't speak.

01:32:46   It's just unbelievable. I mean, we don't have cable anymore. We got rid of it. I just said

01:32:54   I was going to buy everything off of iTunes from now on. I mean, because I... There's

01:32:58   so much about broadcast television that makes me angry, and particularly about the cable

01:33:03   companies that makes me angry that...

01:33:04   How's that?

01:33:05   In Tacoma though, one of the nice things is that we actually have cable competition because

01:33:10   the city has their own cable network.

01:33:14   So you can get cable TV through Comcast or through the city of Tacoma, which is kind

01:33:21   of nice.

01:33:23   When I compare what we paid to what my parents are paying in Connecticut, it's just...

01:33:27   It's funny how that works.

01:33:29   It's absurd.

01:33:30   It's funny how that works.

01:33:31   Yeah, yeah.

01:33:32   Yeah, strange, isn't it?

01:33:33   the hell of living in Philadelphia is that our city offers cable to I was

01:33:37   called Comcast I walked right in it because we are of course cable town yeah

01:33:46   how's that working out for you though I think you mean the cup the carpet no

01:33:52   they're not having they're not having cable oh not having oh not having uh

01:33:56   pretty good we're obviously not watching as much baseball as we used to watch

01:34:02   Um, yeah, and I you know, I could get the I could get the major league

01:34:06   Yeah, but then you wouldn't isn't your team is local Seattle team, right? Yeah

01:34:11   That's it. See that's right part of the problem. So and then you know, even if I could watch them I'd be watching

01:34:17   watching them lose

01:34:20   So that's part of why I'm not watching as much tell very much baseball anymore either

01:34:24   but

01:34:27   Yeah, I mean I just I worked out the math and I it just made for the amount of television that we were watching

01:34:32   the amount of shows that we were watching it made more sense to buy him off of iTunes than to

01:34:36   than to pay

01:34:39   55 bucks a month for whatever it was and that's just to start. I mean everybody I forget what we yeah

01:34:44   We weren't getting right. We weren't getting any premium. I mean any premium channels, so

01:34:48   We've got HBO, but we don't have them in there's I don't know

01:34:54   It's it's it's like trying to buy a car and there's seven different types of leather you can get for the seat

01:34:58   I mean, it's so complicated, but we don't even have nearly the top tier of cable, but we paid we do have HBO

01:35:04   But we pay I don't know five hundred dollars a month or something

01:35:07   Really stinks that's a package. Yeah

01:35:12   Came with a hat you can

01:35:15   You can also not watch your shows by airplane, right?

01:35:19   As part of the package Xfinity

01:35:23   Yeah, terrible name

01:35:26   No, it's not a good name, but at the same time, it probably was a good idea on their part to name it something other than "Compcast Online."

01:35:36   "Cabletown." They should have gone with "Cabletown." They should just embrace it.

01:35:40   Yeah, that's a name like... we were talking about "ecam" the other day.

01:35:51   name that sounds... good company, nice guys. Name that sounds like it's from a different era.

01:35:57   Yeah, that's when we were talking, that's how we got back on the Mac connection kick.

01:36:00   Right.

01:36:01   Ecamm sounds sort of like one of those...

01:36:03   Mm-hmm, back of the catalog... back of the magazine.

01:36:06   Back of the magazine, we sell everything and anything, electronics.

01:36:10   Sort of like Radio Shack without the class.

01:36:12   They never went full into that rebranding they were going to do.

01:36:18   The Shack!

01:36:19   The Shack.

01:36:20   They did I forgot about that a little I think you like everyone smell we got a flyer and it'll say somewhere on it the

01:36:24   Shack or something like that and you know that they those flyers that get stuck in the middle of the newspaper or the just dumped in

01:36:30   the mail but I

01:36:32   Thought they were gonna really like tear the signs down and call it the shack

01:36:36   nope

01:36:39   It's a darn shame

01:36:41   All right, I say we call it a show all right all right

01:36:46   Thanks, John. John Moltz of VeryNiceWebsite.net.

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