Under the Radar

199: Spending Dan Riccio’s 2020 Battery Surplus


00:00:00   Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development.

00:00:04   I'm Marco Arment.

00:00:05   And I'm David Smith. Under the Radar is never longer than 30 minutes, so let's get started.

00:00:09   So last year around this time, as we were heading into the kind of like, you know, any minute now,

00:00:15   the fall hardware will be released kind of era of the year.

00:00:19   We had this fun episode where we basically said, "Let's spend Dan Riccio's hardware budget."

00:00:25   And the idea here, Dan Riccio is Apple's Senior Vice President of Hardware Engineering.

00:00:30   And the idea behind this, in a similar way of like, people on podcasts like us often will talk about,

00:00:37   "Oh yeah, it's easy for us to, let's spend Tim Cook's money."

00:00:39   The idea is every year, you know, technology moves forward and, you know, things get better and more efficient.

00:00:46   And usually when it comes to hardware, usually every year's, or whatever, every generation of hardware

00:00:52   is able to do more with less power.

00:00:55   And so you get this kind of surplus that, well, what do you do with the gains that you've made

00:01:01   by this generation's advances in efficiency?

00:01:04   And you can do things like, you know, just bank it and just have better battery life and lower heat.

00:01:09   Or you can like, spend it by making the battery smaller and therefore making the whole device thinner and lighter.

00:01:15   Or, you know, things like you can make performance better. Things like that.

00:01:18   So, we're going to do this once again because it's kind of a fun thing.

00:01:22   We're going to go through the various major product families and this year say,

00:01:26   "How are we thinking about spending Dan Riccio's hardware budget for 2020?"

00:01:31   I love this.

00:01:32   Especially building on how wildly unsuccessful we were last year.

00:01:36   Yes.

00:01:37   The ones are like, we talked about how, you know, while I'm sure they could spend their battery budget on an always-on display,

00:01:44   like, they're never going to do that. That's completely inconceivable and that's exactly what we got.

00:01:49   Right. The Apple Watch would never have an always-on display. It could never power it all day. That's impossible.

00:01:54   Yeah. So, building on that success, it's a fun little sort of exercise to go through.

00:02:01   Exactly.

00:02:02   But I do think this year, especially on the Apple Watch, speaking of that, I think it's going to be a really interesting year.

00:02:09   Like, I think we're going to have a lot more, a lot of movement in a variety of directions.

00:02:13   And I think mostly I'm saying that for two reasons.

00:02:16   One is they've clearly, I think, sort of indicated that whatever the new watches are,

00:02:21   they're not going to have pressure sensitivity in the screen.

00:02:24   So no force touch menus, nothing like that.

00:02:27   Because in watchOS 7, they've all been deprecated.

00:02:30   It's clearly not something that they were wanting to sort of go forward in sort of the future direction of the platform.

00:02:37   And I think that is interesting because obviously that eliminates a display component.

00:02:43   And I imagine with that comes thickness constraints that they could potentially take advantage of,

00:02:49   where whatever width in the screen or in the package was used for the touch sensitivity.

00:02:56   They don't need to do that anymore.

00:02:58   And two, there's just always, I'm sure there's a battery sort of benefit from this as well.

00:03:03   Because whatever that technology is, I don't understand exactly how the force sensitivity worked,

00:03:07   but it's going to be taking power because it's a thing, so it's going to have to take power.

00:03:12   So it's not going to be taking that power now.

00:03:13   And so I think that's one side of it.

00:03:15   And I think two is that I think, and I hope, this is like a big fingers crossed for me as a watch developer,

00:03:21   I think the Series 3 is probably going to be retired this year.

00:03:26   I really hope it is.

00:03:28   It's been around for so long and is kind of the odd man out in the Apple Watch lineup now.

00:03:36   And it's the old style, non-rounded screen,

00:03:44   and it has all these different constraints and things in terms of the way watchOS works.

00:03:50   It has a completely separate set of complications than the modern infographic style of complications.

00:03:57   And it just feels really odd and weird and has been around for so long.

00:04:03   And I think it's clearly that it's around now because they can make it so inexpensively.

00:04:08   It's three years old, essentially, and it's selling really, really well,

00:04:13   which I kind of don't like as a developer.

00:04:16   I love that there are more and more people who are exploring getting the Apple Watch.

00:04:21   That part's great.

00:04:22   But I don't love that right now for me, it is the most popular Apple Watch in my analytics by far.

00:04:29   It takes up about 33% of my active users are using a Series 3 Apple Watch,

00:04:38   which is a lot for it to be the oldest, most slowest, least capable, teeniest device.

00:04:45   That's not a great situation.

00:04:47   So I would hope and think, and general rumors and things seem to indicate,

00:04:52   it's hopefully going to be going away in some way this year.

00:04:55   And those two things coming together makes me think that Apple is going to have a really--

00:05:01   essentially, they're going to completely turn over the Apple Watch lineup this fall.

00:05:09   Rather than just shifting things down, they're going to take out the bottom line.

00:05:14   And I don't think they're probably going to replace it with a Series 5.

00:05:19   Because it seems like that would be a huge jump from a cost perspective

00:05:24   to go from the current flagship to the next year being the bargain price model.

00:05:30   That seems like a bit of a reach.

00:05:33   If Apple wants to do that, more power to them.

00:05:35   But my guess is more likely that we would see some kind of situation where the Series 6 Apple Watch

00:05:41   is the new flagship with whatever new sensors in it

00:05:44   and whatever they're doing with this extra battery budget they have from dropping Force Touch.

00:05:48   And then they introduce something else, like the 6R or whatever, the 6C.

00:05:57   It's some kind of lower-cost, cheaper version to replace the Series 3.

00:06:04   And I really hope they replace it with something that adopts the modern hardware design

00:06:12   so that we can start to move away from the 38mm and 42mm

00:06:17   and move into the bright world of 40mm and 44mm instead.

00:06:21   In addition, I hope you're right. I hope this actually happens.

00:06:27   But I have my doubts.

00:06:29   Mainly because they are still selling a ton of it.

00:06:33   And they're not going to start selling the Series 4 super cheaply in all likelihood

00:06:38   because as soon as the 5 came out, they seemed to have stopped making the 4.

00:06:42   It never took that spot of the lower-cost one.

00:06:45   They just skipped that one for whatever reason.

00:06:47   And the 5 is in many ways very similar to the 4, except for that always on screen.

00:06:51   That's the major improvement of it.

00:06:54   So it's almost like they actually are still making the same watch as the Series 4

00:06:58   just with this one big change.

00:07:00   So maybe the Series 6 will be a bigger leap than we expect

00:07:03   because the Series 5 didn't push performance forward really.

00:07:07   But the other thing to consider is that Series 3, in addition to being the last of the old Apple Watch screen sizes

00:07:17   and complication styles, as you mentioned, and all that stuff,

00:07:20   is also, as far as I know, the last 32-bit device Apple is still shipping.

00:07:25   Because the Series 4 Apple Watch went 64-bit.

00:07:30   And so that, I'm pretty sure, again, I could be wrong if I'm forgetting something,

00:07:34   but I'm pretty sure that Series 3 Apple Watch is Apple's last 32-bit device.

00:07:37   And there are plenty of reasons technically why they would want to get rid of that relatively soon.

00:07:44   That being said, yeah, they are selling a ton of them.

00:07:47   And the market for smart watch and smart watch-like things like Fitbits and stuff

00:07:52   just really rewards low price.

00:07:54   If you can push that price lower and lower and lower, you do very well in that market.

00:07:58   And Apple does have a lot of very strong competition in the low-price segment of that market.

00:08:03   There aren't a lot of nice multi-hundred dollar smart watches that are competing well with Apple.

00:08:09   Apple really has the high end taken over as they tend to do.

00:08:13   But the low end for price, they do have strong competition.

00:08:16   And so I don't think they're going to get rid of it for just sales reasons any time soon.

00:08:22   I think they're going to keep pushing it just lower and lower in price

00:08:25   until they can sell the Series 4 or 5 for like $200 or whatever it is.

00:08:31   But I don't know if that is this year or not.

00:08:34   It would be nice, but I don't know if it's going to happen.

00:08:37   And that's, I think, such a tricky question because it's whether--

00:08:40   Also, I wonder if they consider that there's a minimum price they want to sell an Apple Watch for.

00:08:47   Because in some ways, there's that interesting branding exercise around

00:08:54   at a certain price, does it diminish or start to impact the sale of their high-end device too much?

00:09:03   If you say, "I've seen this in just my own experience,"

00:09:10   it seems like right now a lot of people are really interested in tracking and monitoring their health,

00:09:15   which for obvious reasons for what's going on in the world at large,

00:09:19   that is certainly something that people have an active interest in.

00:09:22   And I think it's the interesting question of you walk into the Apple Store or go online

00:09:25   or however you're able to buy these days.

00:09:29   And if on the one hand, right now, I think the entry-level price for a Series 3 is, I think, $199,

00:09:37   and then it's $399.

00:09:39   It's worse than I thought.

00:09:40   I don't think it's ever been quite this much of a jump where the entry-level Apple Watch was half the price of the next one up.

00:09:47   Yeah. It's $199 or $399.

00:09:50   Yeah. I don't think they're going to cut the price of the Series 5 in half in one year.

00:09:54   No. And so that makes me think that they would need to either build a device that is purpose-built for being cheap.

00:10:01   Yeah.

00:10:02   And I don't know exactly what that is or what that device looks like,

00:10:06   but it feels like it has to be specifically built for that.

00:10:09   Or, yeah, it's like they keep selling this, but if they keep selling the Series 3, would they go to $149 or something?

00:10:14   I could see them doing it, but I don't want them to.

00:10:19   Part of me is so clouded because I really don't want them to.

00:10:22   This device is this anchor around watchOS development for probably at least the next two years

00:10:29   because they're still selling it now.

00:10:31   If they add it another year, it's just we're going to be supporting this until watchOS 9.

00:10:36   And so I really don't want it to go away.

00:10:39   And it's tricky because the Series 3 Apple Watch is for fitness tracking and basic Apple Watch-y stuff is really good.

00:10:46   It's a really good, basic, does-the-job-well Apple Watch.

00:10:51   And I think there are also probably some people who also kind of like that it's physically very small.

00:10:56   Like the 38mm Series 3 Apple Watch is the smallest Apple Watch available right now.

00:11:01   And the 38mm to the 40mm, it's not a huge jump, but it's bigger.

00:11:08   And it's definitely a noticeable and tangible thing for something that has a bigger sort of fashion

00:11:13   and how it looks on your wrist and the size of your wrist, those kind of things.

00:11:18   And so I wouldn't...

00:11:20   There's part of me that wonders if you could almost make the next version have the...

00:11:26   It'd be 40mm-ish, or it's the 40mm metrics, but in a physically smaller package

00:11:34   and just push it even more to the edge on the screen or something.

00:11:38   Because it is interesting. I also wonder, are they going to keep...

00:11:43   I mean, they probably will just keep having this high-end sort of Apple Watch model that's $400 to $500 range

00:11:52   because it seems to still also be selling really well.

00:11:55   So there's a lot of interest in the higher-end thing, but they're just going to have to keep putting pressure there

00:12:01   for why that's compelling.

00:12:03   Like, why would you want that?

00:12:04   And I think the Always-On Display is a big thing that I think is certainly a compelling feature.

00:12:10   And are they going to add more sensors, interesting on the health and fitness side?

00:12:18   Or is it a weird way?

00:12:21   I mean, I'm just too used to the Apple Watch, but it becomes less compelling to get the fancier, more expensive model

00:12:28   when it isn't that much different than the one before.

00:12:33   Like, if you picked up a used Series 5 Apple Watch, if they stopped selling it, or refurbished, or whatever.

00:12:40   It's harder to be more compelling, which is an interesting aspect of this as well.

00:12:45   Yeah, totally.

00:12:46   And I imagine, too, what they're going to do with the Force Touch thing.

00:12:49   It just seems like it's a failed, sort of...

00:12:54   As a user interface paradigm, I think it was just kind of a failure on the Apple Watch.

00:12:59   And that sounds like a bit of a mean way to say it, but it was never intuitive.

00:13:03   Any time I felt like I was putting a control or a feature behind Force Touch,

00:13:07   it felt like I was hiding it from the user and setting it up as a scavenger hunt

00:13:13   that they were going to have to go looking for this feature.

00:13:15   Like, "How do I change the calendars displayed on my calendar?"

00:13:20   It's like, "Well, you Force Touch." And it's like, "What? What is this?"

00:13:23   I think most people didn't know that it would have certainly interacted within normal life,

00:13:29   where people didn't know that they could change and configure the complications on their Apple Watch

00:13:34   on their Apple Watch, because in order to do it, you had to force press to activate the editor view.

00:13:41   And so they either did it on their iPhone, or they just never did it,

00:13:47   and they would just swipe horizontally between whatever the built-ins are,

00:13:51   and they were just like, "Well, this is just how the Apple Watch comes.

00:13:54   It has these five things, and that's what it comes with."

00:14:00   And so I think it just never really worked, and so it makes sense to drop it as a feature,

00:14:04   because on a device this small, any little savings that they can have

00:14:08   in terms of hardware that they can pull out and not actually negatively affect the device,

00:14:14   it makes total sense, and they'll use that for some reason in terms of cost savings, battery life, whatever,

00:14:21   but it just kind of makes sense that it'll just go away and just, you know, it'll only be missed.

00:14:25   In the same way, on the iPhone, they got rid of it, and it just kind of went away,

00:14:30   and it wasn't particularly missed.

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00:16:35   All right, so let's spend Dan Riccio's hardware budget.

00:16:39   So for the Apple Watch, as you mentioned, we will probably have a bit of a surplus this year, at least.

00:16:45   Possibly more if they do a generational leap since Series 5 was not really faster than Series 4.

00:16:51   So what do you think they should do with the Apple Watch? I guess you go first.

00:16:57   Sure. I mean, I think the biggest things that I think they should do on the flagship model is they should give it ridiculous battery life.

00:17:04   Like, whatever they can spend it, I think it's fast enough. I don't think performance is a problem.

00:17:09   I think this is the year to go big on battery life, especially because sleep tracking is now like a first-party supported use case for the Apple Watch.

00:17:17   I think that's the right place to sort of spend their budget.

00:17:20   And then on the small side, I think ideally is creating a modern-looking Apple Watch as cheaply as they can.

00:17:29   And if that still has the old battery life and the old performance, that's fine, but just make it look and sort of physically behave to the OS

00:17:36   like a modern Apple Watch rather than something that's from three years ago.

00:17:40   Yeah, that sounds right. I had for an Apple Watch basically very similar.

00:17:45   Basically my opinion was these savings that you have, this is the year to bank them, not spend them.

00:17:51   Because last year we had this massive power expenditure of adding the always-on screen.

00:17:57   And the watches right before that, like the Series 3 and 4, have amazing battery life.

00:18:02   So much so that we were saying, "You should spend this. This is too much battery life. Spend it on cool features."

00:18:07   And they did. And that kicked it back a significant way.

00:18:11   I have the smaller of the two Series 5. I have the 40mm one.

00:18:15   And if I do, say, an hour-long workout in the morning, and I have the always-on screen, if I wear that all day,

00:18:22   I mean, I'm also on the beta, so that doesn't help, but I have occasionally run out of power in the evening.

00:18:28   Or when I go to bed, I'll notice it's at like 15%. Okay, well that was cutting it a little close.

00:18:33   If I did, say, more than one hour of workout mode, or if I was trying to use streaming to stream music or something,

00:18:40   or use cellular data, that could have driven it down.

00:18:43   So this is the year for the Apple Watch that I say bank the savings and just improve the battery life

00:18:49   to then enable future advances.

00:18:52   So I'm also going to always add here my constant wish, which I already know from watchOS 7 that we didn't really get,

00:18:59   but my constant wish is to apply whatever savings possible in the battery area to watchOS

00:19:06   and the limitations that it imposes on third-party apps to raise those limits on our apps to some degree.

00:19:12   So let us run more CPU time, give us more background refresh time, give us the ability to update complications more often,

00:19:20   whatever, like all these limitations that are in place in watchOS for what third-party apps can do

00:19:25   and how often they're woken up and stuff like that. I would love for some of these savings to be spent raising those limits.

00:19:30   Absolutely agreed.

00:19:32   Alright, let's move on to the next device in the size category, the iPhone.

00:19:36   I don't think we have too much to say here. What do you think the technology savings should be spent on on the iPhone?

00:19:41   I mean, I think the iPhone is just a funny platform because it's so old and so mature in a good way.

00:19:46   I think when I think of what would I want in an iPhone this fall? I mean, I've bought an iPhone every fall for the last decade,

00:19:53   so I'm probably going to buy whatever they put out again this year.

00:19:57   But what I think about mostly is frustration with face ID, I think is certainly going to be something that I don't know if they could have dealt with it by this point,

00:20:06   but some kind of fingerprint-based reader would be very much appreciated.

00:20:12   But other than that, my iPhone is already so fast. From a performance perspective, there is nothing that I do on my iPhone on a regular basis that feels at all slow.

00:20:23   It feels like it's limited by the device or its capability.

00:20:27   And it's weird because some of the things like battery life, I know the battery life improved with the iPhone 11s,

00:20:33   but I don't even really notice that now because I never leave the house. I don't go anywhere.

00:20:38   Right, it's less important. No one's traveling.

00:20:41   I'm not on a plane and want to make sure that I can watch three movies in a row on my phone without plugging in.

00:20:46   These aren't situations that are just part of life right now. So for it to be compelling, I feel like the main thing for me is just bettering authentication.

00:20:56   And I've heard the general rumors that there might be a smaller but modern style iPhone as part of the lineup.

00:21:03   It's something that intrigues and sort of delights me. I'm a small phone person.

00:21:08   My favorite phones have typically been the smaller of the phones.

00:21:11   And so I would certainly appreciate and enjoy that.

00:21:14   And in some ways, that's spending the battery budget because smaller phones tend to have smaller batteries.

00:21:18   But if they can do so and still maintain the battery life that I'm getting currently on my 11 Pro, that would be a great win for me.

00:21:26   As you know, we always disagree on everything in this podcast.

00:21:30   I'm so happy you mentioned the small phone. I had that on my list as well because I too am looking forward to this rumored 5.4 inch display phone.

00:21:37   Because the iPhone 10 series of phones got larger than the series that came before it.

00:21:46   And the rumor this year is that it will again get larger still.

00:21:50   And I'm not looking forward to that because my number one request for the iPhone is not necessarily for the size to change, although I will appreciate that.

00:22:00   I would like them to get a little bit lighter weight.

00:22:02   The last few phones have been significantly heavier and more dense than the phones that came before them.

00:22:07   In part because of that great battery life.

00:22:09   But now that we're going to have, you know, if we have a technological generation where we can spend some of the gain, I would say make the phone lighter.

00:22:18   And that could come from lots of different ways. It can come from, you know, obviously different case materials.

00:22:22   It can come from making a smaller phone. That way I'm happy with the smaller one.

00:22:25   But overall, it will mean a smaller battery in all likelihood.

00:22:28   Batteries are very heavy. And so if we can do that while still maintaining reasonable battery life similar to what we have now or within kind of, you know, the ballpark, I'd be very happy with that.

00:22:38   The one other thing I would put a request in for the iPhone, this is again, we all have like our little specialty nitpicks.

00:22:45   That have to do with what makes our apps easier or harder.

00:22:48   And my thing on the iPhone is the iPhone 11 series has such an advanced camera system in the software that when you open up the camera, it tends to terminate almost all of your other background apps.

00:23:01   And it, like in my audio engine, I use the real time audio interface.

00:23:07   And I actually have to have significantly larger buffers than I otherwise would.

00:23:12   And I have to really, and I still sometimes get little blips when you open the camera, you'll hear a little blip in the audio.

00:23:18   Because it's just doing so much to prepare that camera.

00:23:22   Because it's such a complicated setup these days and it's so advanced.

00:23:25   It dumps everything out of RAM. Like it does a lot.

00:23:28   So using some of the technological gain to, I guess, either add more RAM or, you know, keep the real time stream going a little bit better on the audio side would make my life easier.

00:23:39   But otherwise, for the most part, as a user, I'm looking forward to on the iPhone, I would love that smaller one if it's any good.

00:23:45   And I really am looking forward to trying that.

00:23:48   Because the modern iPhone is just so, not only big, but heavy.

00:23:51   Yeah. And it's just in a way that isn't, it doesn't feel as necessary.

00:23:58   I don't know. At least in my use, like I think ever since the iPhone 10, like this form factor with the full, like sort of the edge to edge screen.

00:24:06   It's got plenty of screen as it is. And I think even you making it a bit smaller, I don't think I would feel cramped or problematic.

00:24:15   And it's like in terms of things like the notch, like every now and then you hear people talk about, oh, they might shrink the notch or make it smaller.

00:24:21   It's like, it doesn't matter. Like the first week I had an iPhone 10, it may have felt a little weird.

00:24:27   I don't even think about it now. Like it's, that's not interesting to me really.

00:24:31   And in some ways I'd rather them just focus on other things about the phone than shrinking down the notch.

00:24:38   Because it's not, it's really not a problem.

00:24:40   Yeah, same. I couldn't care less about the notch.

00:24:42   Alright, and finally, let's move on to the Mac.

00:24:45   What do you want to see, it's a weird year obviously, because we're going to be going into the switch to Apple Silicon any minute now.

00:24:52   But what do you want to see with the possibly large power savings that we're going to get from that switch?

00:25:00   Yeah, I mean, my big hope for this fall is that one of the early Macs that comes out with Apple Silicon is a Mac that makes sense for developers.

00:25:10   That I would be very excited to get one of those.

00:25:15   And it would be a little complicated, I would have complicated feelings if the first Macs to get Apple Silicon are the 12 inch, like they bring back say like a 12 inch MacBook.

00:25:26   Which I think they will.

00:25:28   They probably will. And they updated the iMac or something like that.

00:25:32   Like the base iMac to have it.

00:25:35   If there wasn't an obvious option for a powerful professional super machine, I would be a little frustrated.

00:25:44   I love the 12 inch MacBook. I mean, for years that was my travel machine. I loved it.

00:25:49   And if that was where they went, I would still get one.

00:25:52   But I would do it with a little bit of reservation and frustration. That I would love to instead, the next Mac I buy is going to be Apple Silicon.

00:26:00   And it would be great if it was a developer class machine rather than a developer compromise machine.

00:26:06   Like whenever I had the 12 inch MacBook as my development machine when I was traveling, it was because it was so crazy light but it could do it.

00:26:14   And if I needed to, while I was traveling, do a build, the fact that it took like three times, four times longer than it did on my iMac Pro.

00:26:21   I just accepted that that was the cost of doing business. But it would be great if instead it was a developer class machine, one of them in the lineup that I could choose.

00:26:31   And then buy that and feel confident about its utility going forward for the long haul.

00:26:38   I agree with you. My concern there is the GPU story. I don't think Apple has super high performance GPUs ready yet and I also can't see them putting like an ATI or Nvidia chip in there.

00:26:51   AMD or Nvidia chip. Sorry, I'm old. It sounds like I'm old when I say ATI.

00:26:55   I can't see them doing that for any of the Apple Silicon Macs. I have a feeling they're going to do their own GPUs for all of them.

00:27:01   But I have a feeling also that the latest rumors say that they're going to have this great GPU in this great Apple Silicon Mac next year.

00:27:10   So I'm guessing the machines that typically have the high end GPUs, which tend to be the higher end machines including the 16 inch, the iMac, the Mac Pro of course.

00:27:19   Who knows what they're going to do there. But I think those machines are going to be the last ones to move over.

00:27:24   Rumors are that they're going to have a 13 inch MacBook Pro and possibly a remade 12 inch. I think that's most likely on the laptop side.

00:27:32   I think the desktop side might be solved with a Mac Mini. You know the dev kit is a Mac Mini and they presumably could just do that because the GPU needs...

00:27:42   Like the Mac Mini is in effect kind of the perfect machine to do that with because it currently today has an amazing processor and a terrible GPU.

00:27:51   And it's fine for developers. The screen situation aside, which is not good, but the machine itself has a good performance characteristic for developers so that's fine.

00:28:01   My overall Mac wish list besides that, which is a good one, is heat reduction.

00:28:07   The Intel chips run so hot under such normal circumstances, I want to see heat reduction.

00:28:13   We still have problems with CPU throttling on the high end laptops, especially when used in clamshell mode or when connected to external displays, which is a very common thing people do.

00:28:22   I want to see reduced heat. And to do that, or when you do that, you can then also reduce fan noise.

00:28:32   I would love, like to me, I think in the modern era, you should never hear the fan noise from a desktop. Ever, ever, ever.

00:28:39   Desktops should always be inaudible. Not to say they shouldn't have fans, but that the fans should be inaudible at all times under all conditions.

00:28:46   We already have many desktops from Apple that do that, but not all of them. I want to see that move to all of them.

00:28:51   And then laptops, I think we can probably do that most of the time for most models.

00:28:56   I know if you really push that 16 inch class, there's probably going to be some audible fan noise, but I want to see most of the laptops in almost every circumstance be inaudible.

00:29:05   And I think this move to Apple Silicon should be able to do that. I hope it can. So that's my list.

00:29:11   And I think too, with that, it has the advantage of, I don't need my laptop to necessarily have longer battery life in the way that it needs to be 18 hours long or something.

00:29:24   That would be great, but I don't need that. That can be spent in so many better ways than trying to extend it out too far.

00:29:33   But these are our hopes, these are our guesses. I have a suspicion that we are wildly wrong on all of them, but it is still fun, nevertheless, to speculate and discuss.

00:29:42   And then in the next coming weeks, we'll find out just how wrong we are.

00:29:46   I look forward to that. Thanks for listening everybody, and we'll talk to you in two weeks.

00:29:50   Bye.

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