Under the Radar

116: The Going Indie Spreadsheet, Part 2


00:00:00   Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development. I'm Mark Orment.

00:00:04   And I'm David Smith. Under the Radar is never longer than 30 minutes, so let's get started.

00:00:09   So today we are kind of doing the part two to last week's kind of, I don't know, going indie 101 or going indie the spreadsheet way

00:00:17   discussion where we talked a little bit about forming a forming your business,

00:00:22   considerations around taxes, and considerations around income. So if you haven't heard that,

00:00:27   go listen to that before you listen to this because those are more important in some ways and more foundational to kind of what we're

00:00:34   going to talk about now.

00:00:35   But really what we're going to be unpacking for the rest of this episode is trying to think through all of the different

00:00:41   expenses that you are going to have. Once you kind of work out at a vague level what your income goals may be,

00:00:47   what the taxes around that are going to be,

00:00:49   and then you have to like work out, well, what are the other expenses when suddenly if you're self-employed and you're becoming,

00:00:55   you know, suddenly becoming responsible for all of the expenses associated with running a business,

00:01:00   what are those going to be so you're not caught out or surprised by what they may be. And

00:01:05   some of these you may not have thought of, but the one that we're probably going to start with that you almost certainly have thought

00:01:11   about if you live in the United States

00:01:13   is health care and health insurance. Because almost certainly if you work

00:01:17   at a traditional employer currently, that employer is providing in some way

00:01:24   your health care. Either they're paying for it themselves or you're paying for it, but they're choosing it and it's a group plan.

00:01:29   And this is something that I feel is so often the...

00:01:33   It can be a little emotional and personal because you know health care is a very...

00:01:39   It's not this kind of... It's not like choosing your business card provider or choosing, you know,

00:01:46   which computer you buy. Like those decisions, while important for your business perhaps, like aren't

00:01:52   nearly as personal and impactful to things that are the new. This affects your family and it can affect, you know, your family in a

00:01:57   very substantial way.

00:01:59   So it can end up being, I think, feeling something very scary.

00:02:01   But I would encourage you to always think that

00:02:04   health insurance is just another number that you have to pay for. And

00:02:11   it's not... You know, it can easily become something that is a bit...

00:02:16   You can build it up to be something that's a bit more emotional or a bit more scary. Like, you know, right now

00:02:20   my employer just takes care of that. Now I have to do that. It's like, well, hey, you're kind of already paying for it now.

00:02:26   Because you're, you know, it's not like your employer gets their health insurance for free. Like they're paying for it for you

00:02:31   and that's in some ways your money that

00:02:33   is just being... They're, you know, they're having control over it.

00:02:37   So at least one advantage of paying for your own health insurance is you can, you know, tailor and choose and

00:02:42   match it to your family's needs, goals, risks, tolerance,

00:02:46   savings,

00:02:48   etc. Like you can choose that.

00:02:50   But ultimately just understand that

00:02:53   it is just a number. It is something that you now have to choose and make that those choices can be complicated and, you know, kind of

00:03:01   challenging perhaps. But it is just a number. And once you turn it into a number,

00:03:05   I found for myself that it made it a lot less scary, a lot less problematic, that I could just say like, okay,

00:03:11   I'm gonna spend this amount of money on health care. I put that into my budget. I put it into my spreadsheet.

00:03:16   It's just covered. It's taken care of. I don't have to think about it or worry about it because, you know, ultimately

00:03:22   that's all it is. It's an expense and then, you know, it'll have implications perhaps,

00:03:26   you know, in your personal life in terms of the different depending on the kind of insurance you have.

00:03:30   You know, when you go to a doctor different things will happen.

00:03:32   You may have a high deductible or you have to pay a copay and, you know,

00:03:36   that part of it is certainly something that is worth considering.

00:03:40   But it's not this big scary thing. It's mostly it's just an expense and it's pretty expensive.

00:03:45   It's probably after taxes your next biggest expense.

00:03:47   But it's not anything more than just another number and just another budget item that you have to take care of.

00:03:54   Exactly. Like the debate in your head should not be like,

00:03:58   I can't go indie because I would need to pay for health insurance or I wouldn't be able to get health insurance.

00:04:04   Instead, it's when I go indie, I have to find a way to make, you know,

00:04:09   X extra dollars per month than what I might have originally thought because it has to pay for health insurance.

00:04:15   Because, you know, like as you mentioned, like, you know, right now like someone's paying, you know,

00:04:19   whether you're paying for part or all of it yourself or chances are your employer is paying for, you know, part or all of it.

00:04:25   You know, there's a lot that employers pay to have an employee that is not just the salary that you get.

00:04:32   And, you know, we started talking about this last week with like, you know, the employer half of a lot of these taxes

00:04:38   and other various, you know, employment taxes that you will have to either pay or pay some kind of alternative to now.

00:04:45   But also, you know, healthcare is part of that, you know, just office expenses. Like, you know, if they pay you

00:04:51   say $50,000 a year, you might be costing them

00:04:55   $65,000 a year or $70,000 a year or more like, you know, depending on

00:05:00   what kind of expenses they have to have employees. And so when you go independent, it's not that you

00:05:06   can't do that. It's not that you can't pay for those things. You just have to know

00:05:10   how much to charge for your consulting services, how much you how much income you need from products like stomach like

00:05:17   it's these are not numbers to

00:05:20   scare you off but to instead

00:05:22   inform

00:05:24   how you make your projections, how you know what you need and how you set your prices.

00:05:31   I remember early days and I was doing consulting I would sign a contract to do a work and the number like the income that

00:05:37   I was getting seemed so big and so like wow, that's like that's a lot of money

00:05:43   like I'm gonna use like this contract is for

00:05:45   $20,000 like which in a in regular day-to-day life is a lot of money like

00:05:51   but it

00:05:53   the important thing that I always had to in the back of my mind have

00:05:56   and this is just a rule of thumb that I found to be pretty helpful is to say like whatever that top of the line number

00:06:02   is it's like at least half of it is going to something else.

00:06:05   And so like it's not that I didn't I didn't just make in that example. I didn't make $20,000

00:06:12   I made $10,000 and that additional 10,000 is going to be going to all manner of things taxes, healthcare, office expenses,

00:06:20   etc. And so it's important to just have that in the back of your mind that you know

00:06:25   these are all just numbers that you just have to balance and know what they are, but

00:06:28   you know, it's good there and the reason you're doing this is so that you can make sure you're charging enough because you know

00:06:34   ultimately if you don't then that's when things like healthcare can become problematic because you need to

00:06:39   have the money to do to afford to pay for it.

00:06:41   Exactly because like you were as I kind of said last week like your whole

00:06:45   mindset of like how to pay for things has to change to some degree and

00:06:47   your mindset about how much money you need to make also has to change because like your whole like if you've been

00:06:54   only employed by other people until now your whole life up until now you've had a certain amount of money in your head is like

00:06:59   what's like what's my salary? What's a good salary? What kind of salary do I quote need you know to

00:07:04   maintain the lifestyle I want to maintain and

00:07:06   you you still have to make those kind of calculations the numbers just have to be higher, but and it's not that like you know

00:07:14   the idea of spending say $2,000 a month for family health insurance

00:07:17   which is a reasonable number actually these days which is sad, but like you know

00:07:21   the idea of spending $2,000 a month if you are getting paid and you know regular middle-class job that sounds insane like that sounds incredible

00:07:27   why would anybody how can anybody pay that much but the answer is

00:07:31   not thinking of it from the from the point of view of a payroll employee

00:07:35   thinking about it as the point of view of somebody setting prices for a business to know like okay

00:07:39   how much income do we need every month do we need

00:07:41   $8,000 a month of income to sustain what we need okay, then that's the number like you know

00:07:46   It's it's almost and you figure out how to do that. You know you kind of back solve you start with what kind of income?

00:07:52   Do I need to cover all this stuff, and then you back solve to say okay?

00:07:56   How do I get there you know like a quick story here like when we first moved to New York?

00:08:00   We moved to a very nice suburb, and I didn't know what the heck

00:08:03   I was doing I moved to where my cousins lived because it was nice

00:08:05   Got an apartment there

00:08:07   You know just renting and I looked around and you know Tiff and I were early in our relationship

00:08:11   And we wanted to you know get married and get and buy a house

00:08:13   and we looked around the neighborhood we were living in which was a very expensive neighborhood and

00:08:18   All the houses were like a million dollars and so and sometimes even more than that for like a basic house

00:08:24   So rather than do what we eventually did which is move somewhere cheaper

00:08:28   I initially thought well, I guess if a house is a million dollars. I guess I have to figure out how to make a million dollars

00:08:35   That like informed like salary negotiations

00:08:40   All sorts of things until I eventually rose like I've just moved somewhere cheaper, but like it's like that for a while

00:08:45   That's that was the right way to look at it. Which is like all right. Well. Here's the environment. I'm in

00:08:50   I don't want to change the environment

00:08:51   I'm in or I had this certain goal that I want to reach so rather than seeing it as this impossible thing that I can

00:08:56   Never do instead say all right. This is what I need to reach that goal

00:09:00   How do I get there like how do I how do I afford a house the cost that much you know and yeah?

00:09:06   And so when you're looking at a business

00:09:07   You know you have to think like if the idea that I just said

00:09:11   Making $8,000 a month as a minimum if that sounds crazy high to you

00:09:15   Back saw a little bit and instead something all right. What could I do to make $8,000 a month?

00:09:21   Yeah, so that it is just numbers like it's just that's why I love spreadsheets for this kind of stuff

00:09:26   You just kind of work it out backwards and one of their side note to and a lot of these expenses is

00:09:31   The one a nice thing about business expenses is that almost all of them are tax-deductible

00:09:37   So it's also just need to keep in mind that the you know if health insurance costs you two thousand dollars a month

00:09:42   It isn't two thousand dollars in the in the way that you would have had that money after paying taxes like there's

00:09:49   You don't want to go get carried away with like the discount that you're getting essentially by things being

00:09:55   Tax-deductible, but it is certainly something to keep in mind that a lot of these expenses are the the raw number is much bigger

00:10:03   Then what it will actually end up costing you. Yeah, it's not free, but it is

00:10:06   Discounted it's like you getting you're paying you get like one-third off. You know all these a lot of these types of expenses

00:10:13   But anyway so back to health care

00:10:17   There's really two ways that you can get health care in the US right now anyway

00:10:23   And there's two main ways that I think I've seen people use and I've to abuse both of these myself

00:10:27   The first and this is often the easiest way when you're starting out

00:10:32   is there's a

00:10:34   It's called Cobra. I don't know what that stands for but it's the

00:10:37   Essentially in the United States you your employer is obliged to allow you to continue on your previous group

00:10:44   Insurance plan premium for I think it's up to 18 months after you leave it leave a job

00:10:50   And basically you pay I think it's a hundred and two percent of the cost that the year the total cost that the employer was paying

00:10:58   so

00:10:59   Whatever that actually is and you can just sort of keep whatever the insurance that you have now

00:11:04   And this is a really useful thing even if you don't end up doing it

00:11:09   In the early stages of kind of working out

00:11:11   You know putting together your spreadsheet about what going independent is going to be like this is probably going to be

00:11:18   Your it's often going to be your cheapest version because group insurance is just cheaper than individual insurance well sometimes sure

00:11:25   I mean not necessarily, but at the very least it's a great baseline

00:11:28   And it's a really easy baseline because the number of working out what your the cost of your current plan is

00:11:33   Is should be relatively straightforward to you in terms of your employer should be able to either

00:11:38   Tell you that or it's on your payroll

00:11:39   Stub or whatever and you can look at that number and you can say well

00:11:43   I can just keep my current insurance

00:11:45   If you know if you assume you like it I suppose

00:11:47   But like you can keep that and that should be able to get you going you can't do it indefinitely

00:11:50   You know it's free the first year year and a half or something

00:11:53   But it's a good way to just kind of get started with this process

00:11:57   And it has the least disruption to your family in the sense of you know your insurance

00:12:01   Just sort of stays the same. It's you're just paying all of it yourself rather than

00:12:05   sharing that expense with your employer and

00:12:07   If that doesn't work or if that

00:12:11   But for every reason you don't want that insurance

00:12:13   The alternative is usually to go to one of the health care exchanges used to

00:12:18   Previously it used to be I went to like a insurance broker and worked it out that way

00:12:25   recently I just go to healthcare.gov like the

00:12:27   Affordable Health Care Act

00:12:30   Insurance marketplace stuff and you kind of fill in a bunch of forms

00:12:33   It takes the process takes a little while so if you're thinking about this process like you can it's probably wise to

00:12:38   Go through that and just understand what all the things you're gonna have to do like you provide a lot of data

00:12:45   And then you'll just you know be shown a variety of health plans

00:12:49   and you can choose whichever one sort of fits your needs and your family's goals and

00:12:55   You know depending on where you are in your life and your family life

00:12:58   Different plans might make sense and I will say it's kind of nice that I've been able to as since I've been self-employed

00:13:04   I've been you know I was able to tailor my insurance based on

00:13:08   You know life stage like when we were in the phase of life when we were

00:13:13   You know having children

00:13:16   Having the process of having children in the US is very expensive and so we had very good insurance

00:13:20   during those periods and

00:13:23   As we've transitioned out of that phase like I've been able to transition to slightly less robust insurance

00:13:29   I guess I'll have good insurance, but it's not quite to the degree

00:13:32   It was before and it is kind of nice to be able to choose that but you know you go through the marketplaces

00:13:36   And you'll get be given a whole variety of choices of different styles

00:13:39   You know it's the large a lot of them end up being the high deductible style plans

00:13:44   Or you can there are still typically options for

00:13:48   like the PPO

00:13:51   copay version of it, but you just kind of to choose and decide pick a plan and you'll you know tell you it's just like

00:13:56   It's weird, but it's kind of like just like you're just shopping for anything else online like you'll get a cost

00:14:00   And you just start paying that to the insurance company yourself

00:14:05   Yeah

00:14:05   It's it's way easier than it used to be like back in it when we had to go to brokers and everything and and you

00:14:11   Know not to get too political, but like before the ACA there were a lot of

00:14:15   There are a lot more things you had to worry about of like if you picked the wrong kind of plan

00:14:20   Or if you missed like some small print you might open yourself up to some major risks

00:14:25   Whereas with the ACA it normalized a lot of that and it put in a put in place a lot of like minimum guarantees

00:14:31   Of levels of coverage such that it's a lot less stressful than it ever was now to shop for health care

00:14:36   Yeah, and in so in that sense like you just it

00:14:39   Decide what decide what plan works, but works for you

00:14:42   And then you just buy it and now you have a number you just put that in your spreadsheet and move on and you know

00:14:47   The big scary thing go get you know being self-employed is really hard

00:14:50   To do you wouldn't because from a health care perspective like it isn't really it's it's it's expensive, but it's it's not difficult

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00:16:10   So beyond healthcare, there are probably a few kinds of insurance that you may need to think about these depend

00:16:16   You may want to have some kind of professional liability or errors in emissions insurance

00:16:21   It depends on the kind of work you do

00:16:24   personally in my experience, I haven't

00:16:26   Carried this type of insurance unless a contract requires it

00:16:30   So sometimes you'll be you know

00:16:31   Doing a big consulting project and the people you're consulting with will one of the clauses in the contract

00:16:36   Is that they require that you cover you know have a professional liability

00:16:40   Insurance and so you may have to have that

00:16:43   Depending on your state you may need to have things like workman's compensation insurance or unemployment insurance

00:16:48   Usually those only kick in if you have employees that aren't yourself or yourself and your spouse or something like that

00:16:55   But just good to keep in mind. I highly suggest not doing that if you could help it

00:17:00   It's having having any other full-time employees like not not just paying contractors here and there

00:17:06   but if you have any of full-time employees it massively complicates a lot of these factors and

00:17:11   I I did it very briefly. I think you did too. I would highly advise if

00:17:17   You can do your work with just yourself and occasional help from contractors do that

00:17:23   And certainly is one of the benefits of this type of work is that you probably won't need

00:17:28   Employees at least to start with in the sense of the work you're doing is just you know

00:17:33   You and your laptop or you and your iMac?

00:17:36   You know working away

00:17:37   You're not it's not like you need a production facility that you're like making widgets in and so hopefully you can avoid it or at least

00:17:45   defer having employees for a while

00:17:48   You also now may need to think about

00:17:52   retirement types of

00:17:55   Investing like 401k or IRA type of stuff

00:17:58   This is something that I mean it depends depends on how you view this type of thing

00:18:03   You could potentially defer this for the you know, the first couple years of being starting self-employed, but that's up to you

00:18:09   But either way it's not going to be something that your employer is providing anymore

00:18:13   So it's something that you have to take care of yourself and if it's something that you would like to contribute to

00:18:17   In your as you're setting up your business, you know, you have a lot of choices available to you

00:18:22   I think the ones that most self-employers would do is the simple IRA or a SEP IRA seem to be the two that you will likely

00:18:30   take advantage of

00:18:33   Interestingly depending on your situation. They may actually be able to consume a be able to contribute a lot more than you would have from a traditional

00:18:39   401k so that could be a benefit to you, but it's again

00:18:44   It's just another line in your spreadsheet that you need to understand

00:18:46   And you're you're going to be setting up the plan yourself like you'll be going to you know

00:18:51   a investment bank or you know Vanguard or somewhere like that and you'll be setting up the accounts and making the

00:18:56   contributions yourself, so

00:18:58   That's just something you'll have to

00:19:01   Know now as with all the stuffs like now it's now that's your job

00:19:03   Now you have to take care of that and if setting that up is scary to you

00:19:06   You know be thoughtful about if this really is for you

00:19:09   Well, and also like, you know

00:19:11   You can also do things like hire a financial planner to talk you through a lot of this stuff

00:19:15   Especially when it comes when it comes to things like long-term retirement savings and things like that that that often helps

00:19:19   I'm sure you know, whatever accountant you have for your business to do your taxes, which you are definitely now doing

00:19:25   That you know

00:19:26   The accountant can probably give you some basic guidance on this as well

00:19:29   To give you some idea of the much higher contributions a SEP IRA

00:19:33   The limit this past year I believe was fifty four thousand dollars that you could contribute total now

00:19:39   There are some limitations on this

00:19:40   so for instance, first of all, if you have employees the whole thing is messed up don't have employees, but if you

00:19:44   but but if you I believe the limitation is it can be up to

00:19:50   25% of the business's income for the year

00:19:54   So if you want to contribute fifty four thousand you had to make like two hundred and you know twelve thousand or whatever

00:19:59   But anything you contribute to the SEP I believe is either a tax deduction or a credit

00:20:04   It's a it's a big advantage in your taxes. So like these are things that you know

00:20:08   Any good accountant should tell you you should investigate, you know, if you have

00:20:12   enough income coming into a business

00:20:15   Where you where a SEP makes sense, it can be a pretty substantial tax savings

00:20:20   Yeah, and the other advantage to this just as a side note there is it's nice that you have more so much more control as

00:20:27   with so many of these things over this and so it isn't the kind of thing where you have to like on January 1st decide what

00:20:34   your

00:20:35   Retirement contributions are going to be for the year

00:20:37   You have a bit more flexibility about when you do that about when you time that

00:20:40   So if you get you have a great year and you get to the end of the year, you know

00:20:44   You can make a larger retirement contribution that year so that you can lower your tax liability

00:20:50   If that makes sense, like there's lots of cool things that you can do because you have flexibility because you're not just you know

00:20:57   One of a thousand employees and so you had you actually have the ability to make these choices

00:21:01   Yeah

00:21:01   also

00:21:01   By the way, if you didn't know about this stuff

00:21:03   It is not too late to do this for this past year because you can contribute to at least a SEP

00:21:08   I don't know about the other ones, but you can contribute to a SEP

00:21:10   I think up through up until tax day up until April or something. So yeah, so you like you can do it for the previous year

00:21:15   So so definitely like if you're into this for this year ask somebody about it ASAP because it isn't too late and but yeah

00:21:21   It's these are things that you know again, you know

00:21:24   With the control it's great because like if you had a not so good year

00:21:28   You can either skip it and not contribute or you can contribute a smaller amount than you otherwise would have if you had a fantastic

00:21:33   Blowout year you can contribute as much as you possibly can, you know, it's it really puts everything in your hands

00:21:38   Just like much of self-employment. Yeah

00:21:40   Other expenses so you'll sort of get into things that like just otherwise your employer would have typically covered for you

00:21:47   So things like mileage to or from consulting clients potentially those type that type of thing or travel for work

00:21:55   To conferences any educational expenses you may have so if you need to take a course or a certification or something like that for your

00:22:01   for your work

00:22:03   That's now like a you know a business expense and you'll be deductible from your income

00:22:08   As well as just something you need to take into account that if you know

00:22:12   If your employer every year is sent you to WWDC and took care of all the expenses

00:22:15   That's now gonna be you paying for that and so working out, you know, what that costs are associated with that whether that still makes sense

00:22:23   You'll need to you buy your own office supplies, you know, whether that is

00:22:27   You know pencils and paper or if that's the business cards and letterhead like I mean depending on what kind of business you have

00:22:34   You may or may not need any of those

00:22:36   But that's now something that you're gonna have to take care of yourself. So you're gonna buy your own coffee for the break room

00:22:42   Yeah, that's that's true. You can't you can't just

00:22:44   Much off their terrible drip coffee anymore. So I should get a water cooler installed on my office

00:22:50   There you go. And that way you can have conversations with yourself there on a regular basis. Those are probably expensive

00:22:55   Can you can you have a guy come and like bring those giant glass did those giant jugs to it?

00:23:00   Is that a thing you can do your house?

00:23:02   I'm sure if you paid for it

00:23:04   They would be happy to they would be happy to bring the giant five-gallon drums into your house it and set it up for you

00:23:11   Probably not very cost-effective

00:23:12   You mean just a tap with a filter on it might be more effective for probably just a guess

00:23:19   So you may you're now be responsible for your own hardware in terms of

00:23:23   Your computer any testing devices that you now need in terms of you know, I mean depending on the kind of work you do

00:23:29   You may want to have a collection of test devices. That's now your responsibility to purchase

00:23:36   Probably also something just as it's always a good idea

00:23:40   But I always want to mention it in this kind of topic is make sure you also be like you you're funny

00:23:45   Your first purchases was probably gonna be if you don't have it already like a good backup hard drive

00:23:49   Because suddenly now you are personally responsible for

00:23:53   You know your work like if you somehow your hard drive, you know

00:23:57   Your computer dies and you suddenly don't have that project that your your client has been paying you for six months to build

00:24:04   Like that is a tremendous problem. So you need to make sure you have a very good backup situation

00:24:09   both in terms of physical like having a like I do a daily mirror of my main machine in addition to a variety of cloud backups, but

00:24:16   like that's in it's a hardware expense that you may need to

00:24:19   To factor in a really good chair

00:24:22   Sure, if you sit in a chair for two hours a night after you come back from work

00:24:26   That has very different needs and if you're sitting in one for eight hours a day. Yep. Yep

00:24:30   You'll have a variety of kind of home office things like and I will say don't go don't necessarily go crazy right away

00:24:37   It's it's like we've as if you listen to us talk for long enough you understand we take these things very care like seriously like

00:24:44   Having good good ergonomics make sure you have a keyboard and a mouse and things that work

00:24:47   but like if it's gonna be hard to get started like, you know, you these are the kind of things that can be nice goals for

00:24:54   You know buying at the end of the year if the year goes well

00:24:57   These are like sitting things that you can certainly you don't need to do these right away in the same way like I for

00:25:02   My for the start with like I didn't have that great of a laptop or that great of a computer

00:25:06   I just made it work, you know

00:25:08   You may not necessarily go out and buy a top-of-the-line

00:25:10   iMac Pro on your first day of starting your new business like that's a terrible idea

00:25:14   That's probably unnecessary like you can kind of get started with what you have and then grow and develop as you have need

00:25:22   You're also gonna probably have to buy some software like things that your employer may have previously provided

00:25:28   like if you use Photoshop or Illustrator or

00:25:32   transmit or tower like any of the kind of utilities and tools that are just sort of part and parcel of

00:25:39   You know be being an iOS developer. You're gonna need to now pay for those yourself

00:25:44   similarly, you'll have a bunch of

00:25:47   Online services that you're gonna pay like I you know, I have accounts with Dropbox

00:25:52   You may have things with github or Linode for hosting

00:25:55   You have some may have an account to send like fresh books or QuickBooks

00:25:59   You may probably have any kind of web service. You'll probably have a count to like pingdom or hover

00:26:03   You may be doing backups with backblaze

00:26:06   Like you're gonna be a variety of these kind of services and while any one of them individually is may not be that expensive

00:26:12   In aggregate, you know, they're not an insubstantial part of your expenses

00:26:17   So make sure you have them in the spreadsheet and know what they're gonna know what that what kind of expenses you're gonna have to

00:26:22   manage with that are

00:26:24   Also, make sure that the licenses or the service plans that you are getting for things allow business use most of the things we've mentioned

00:26:32   It's the same no matter what you're using it for but there are occasional

00:26:34   Services or some more some software packages where like if you're using it for business use you're required to pay more to be compliant with

00:26:42   The license. Yeah, it's just good advice in general. Yeah, it's pretty rare

00:26:45   But but those do still exist sure or at least, you know, make sure that you're being up

00:26:50   Above board with all of these that these types of things exactly like yeah, like this is not a place to like pirate your copy

00:26:55   Of Photoshop like you can't know you can't do that with business stuff because suddenly you're the liabilities

00:27:00   That you're putting yourself under and your clients under and things suddenly become very problematic

00:27:05   So like in general good advice like be above boards like understand that this is a business treated as such

00:27:10   and if you've factored these costs and correctly into your

00:27:15   You know into your spreadsheet into your expenses like it shouldn't be a problem in that regard

00:27:19   and so

00:27:21   It should be fine. And then probably the last area to think about is

00:27:24   Professional services. So you're going like we've talked about many times. You're probably gonna need to have

00:27:30   Either a lawyer in an accountant or just an accountant or some kind of in terms of some type of professional

00:27:36   advice on the financial side

00:27:39   You may also need to

00:27:41   Periodically hire a graphic designer

00:27:43   Not miss not hot not hire as an employer, but just hire in terms of dude, you know

00:27:47   Do some consulting for you if you need

00:27:49   you know even icon the icons for your apps or

00:27:54   An icon for your business if you think that's important or whatever like you you're these are kind of professional

00:28:00   Services that you're going to need to suddenly start paying for that. You just need to keep into mind and they're not typically crazy expensive

00:28:06   It's just an expense that needs to have it's I have it have a line item and be considered

00:28:10   As you're going into this with your eyes open

00:28:13   This all sounds like a lot and it is a lot when you when you've never done it before but you know

00:28:18   it's not that different from like the transition from

00:28:21   Renting the place you live to owning a place that you live or the transition into be becoming a parent if you've done that

00:28:27   Like it's it's a thing where like you might not

00:28:30   Beforehand you might not have fully appreciated like all the things that were needed that were being done for you or that you that weren't

00:28:35   Necessary to do that now you have to do

00:28:37   but

00:28:39   Millions of people do this millions of people have figured this out before you many of which you are smarter than

00:28:45   It's it has a lot more to do with

00:28:49   experience with these things than it has to do with skill or intelligence or anything else like if

00:28:55   You want to tackle this you probably can yeah, and we'll say too

00:29:00   it's probably just a good indication of whether you should that like if the if the thought of

00:29:07   Starting this process is completely overwhelming and you just cook can't handle it

00:29:10   Maybe being a regular employee is for you, but if you can get over that like obviously we both recommend it

00:29:17   We both like this lifestyle

00:29:18   But it's probably a good litmus test for does this make sense for me that if the last

00:29:23   You know this episode in the previous one is just like totally blown your mind then like, okay

00:29:28   Maybe it's not for you and that's okay

00:29:29   Like this is like neither one is like the right one the right choice for you

00:29:34   But you just have to it's a good thing to understand that these are these are the things that you're gonna have to take care

00:29:40   Of if you go down this road

00:29:42   Thanks for listening and we'll talk to you next week. Bye

00:29:44   Bye.

00:29:45   [ Silence ]