0:00:00Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development.
0:00:04I'm Mark O'Arment.
0:00:05And I'm David Smith.
0:00:06Under the Radar is never longer than 30 minutes, so let's get started.
0:00:10So today I wanted to talk about something that I'm sort of having to navigate with
0:00:16Workouts++.
0:00:17That seemed like an interesting discussion to have here and a topic that is kind of a
0:00:21perennial one, one that we've talked about many times around business and pricing and
0:00:26that sort of thing.
0:00:28And so for a little bit of background, so Workouts++ is an app that I released right
0:00:33around this time last year whose primary purpose is to create a fully customizable workout
0:00:41experience on the Apple Watch and then on the iPhone to provide a much more detailed
0:00:48analysis and display view of all of the workout data you've ever collected with an Apple
0:00:53Watch, wherever that came from, whether that's in Workouts++ or somewhere else.
0:00:57And it's an app that I made because of a few shortcomings or things that I didn't
0:01:05like about the system app, which is typically where a lot of my ideas come from, where there's
0:01:09an existing thing that doesn't quite work the way I like, so I wanted to make it better.
0:01:15I wanted to improve it.
0:01:16I had some ideas for how I liked it, and so that's why I started it.
0:01:20And it is an app that I use on a very regular basis, five or six times a week at least.
0:01:27And I use this app, and so it's very tailored to the way that I think and the way that I
0:01:33work.
0:01:34And I'm in the process now of finishing a pretty substantial update to it, which will
0:01:39be launching hopefully in about three weeks as you're listening to this, which is kind
0:01:44of bearing down on me now that I have about two weeks left of coding to get all the last
0:01:49bugs out.
0:01:50But in about two weeks, I'm going to launch a big update for it.
0:01:53And so naturally, you start to think about what are you going to do with this new update?
0:01:57Are you going to make any changes?
0:01:58It's a good opportunity to kind of reflect on how the app has done and where it might
0:02:05go in the future.
0:02:07So in the initial version, the version that I launched last December, the app was paid.
0:02:14It was a $5 app.
0:02:16And my reasoning for that initially was coming from a place that it is a very focused sort
0:02:24of power user niche kind of a thing.
0:02:26Like A, you have to have an Apple Watch for it to be useful, period.
0:02:30So that's reducing my potential audience to down quite dramatically.
0:02:36I think for my analytics, for health-conscious people, right around maybe 10% of them have
0:02:42an Apple Watch.
0:02:43Or, of iPhone users, I mean, so that's pretty small.
0:02:48And then you need to want more than you get out of the built-in app.
0:02:51So it seemed like, well, there's not that many people who might use this.
0:02:54So maybe I'll make it paid.
0:02:56Maybe I'll take that approach.
0:02:58And also, it seemed like it was a fairly premium in the sense of it's trying to do more.
0:03:03It's allowing you, if you really care about this kind of stuff, you can tweak and adjust
0:03:08and do a lot of things.
0:03:09And so I was like, let's try that.
0:03:11And the short version is that it didn't do very well at all.
0:03:17I'm about to get into exactly how poorly it did.
0:03:20Before I do that, I always want to just sort of disclaimer things that anytime you hear
0:03:23people talk about sales numbers or things like that, it's always good to take with a
0:03:29grain of salt that the two types of numbers you tend to hear are when things go very poorly
0:03:34or when things go unusually and exceptionally good.
0:03:38So just something to keep in mind that results not typical.
0:03:44It's just instructive insofar as helping sort of couch where I'm going to go with this next.
0:03:48But in the first year of the app's life, the app made $16,000, which is not-- nothing just
0:03:56needs that.
0:03:57It's a good run for an iOS app in many ways.
0:04:01But as you would expect, it probably made 50% of that in the first month and has settled
0:04:08down dramatically since then to at this point, it's not uncommon to have a day where it's
0:04:14like zero or one sales is starting to become pretty common.
0:04:19And I think that's a pattern that is very common with a paid app and just with apps
0:04:23in general in the app store, that there's this pattern where you might get a little
0:04:26bit of interest up front and then it just falls off.
0:04:29And this app in particular, it's competing against such a wide variety of things that
0:04:35in retrospect, it's probably not unexpected that it's very hard to justify that someone
0:04:41would pay a substantial-- or at least a substantial in the app store sense amount of money for
0:04:46it.
0:04:48And so from that perspective, I kind of view it financially as a bit of a flop now.
0:04:53It's not something that I think is financially very viable at that point.
0:04:58And if anything, it's kind of silly that I continue to work on it except for the fact
0:05:03that I use it every single day and I really like it.
0:05:07And I have the benefit, I suppose, of by virtue of being self-employed and being able to make
0:05:12these kind of choices that don't necessarily make sense financially, I can just keep working
0:05:16on it because I like it, because I enjoy it, and I can support myself with my other apps.
0:05:23But that brings me to version two, where I think I've been toying with a variety of things.
0:05:30It seemed obvious that I should definitely make the app free in some ways, because I
0:05:34think that's just the app store where we find ourselves now.
0:05:39The paid apps are become-- you have to be doing something else, I think, for that to
0:05:44be a viable situation.
0:05:47Almost all of the app stores are free with something else.
0:05:52But when I made that decision, then it's like you start to get into, OK, should I have ads,
0:05:56should I have some kind of in-app purchase or subscription situation?
0:06:00And the more I thought about it for this app, the more I decided that maybe this would be
0:06:04an interesting opportunity to rather than go down the road of trying to work out some
0:06:11method to extract money from these customers, who are these potential customers even.
0:06:19The user base is incredibly small now, and any amount I get from them is still going
0:06:23to be somewhat immaterial unless I was able to grow the audience.
0:06:28So any of those scenarios that I came up with, like putting ads into it, it doesn't really
0:06:33work, because ads tend to work well in apps that you will go to on a regular basis, like
0:06:37several times a day that become a more habitual app.
0:06:40Whereas an app like this is something that you might open maybe once a day at best, probably
0:06:45more likely once a week on the iPhone side, just because that's the nature of how often
0:06:51do you really need to do deep dives into your past workout history.
0:06:56And I also just kind of thought, "You know, I don't really like the feeling of ads in
0:07:03general.
0:07:04I know they're an absolutely necessary situation, but they weren't my favorite."
0:07:07And then, so it's like, "Okay, so I do some kind of subscription, some kind of in-app
0:07:10purchase, some kind of situation where like, well, you get the first X, you can see the
0:07:15last week's worth of data, but you can't see more unless you pay, and you're putting up
0:07:18a lot of barriers and pain points in my app."
0:07:22And I decided that I think what I'm going to try instead is to kind of view the situation
0:07:28I have that by virtue of having diversified extensively in the past, that I am now in
0:07:35a position where I can view my existing business, that all my other apps, as a venture capitalist
0:07:46who is able to finance the development of apps that can just go out and see how big
0:07:51of an audience they can garner, and worry less about the immediate return and outcome
0:07:58and squeezing every penny out of the app in the near term as I can.
0:08:02And so I think I'm just going to make the app totally free.
0:08:04No in-app purchases, no ads, no barriers or pain points, nothing to try and create a point
0:08:09of hesitation, that if someone is potentially interested in this, they can go and get it
0:08:12and try it.
0:08:13Try the full experience, and the only kind of vague monetization-y kind of thing I'm
0:08:18going to do is have links to my other apps, which are related and potentially interesting
0:08:23to that person in the app, just as a "that seems like a reasonable best practice" kind
0:08:28of a thing, but not even really expecting to make much from that.
0:08:31But anyway, it's kind of this interesting model, because I've never launched an app
0:08:35that had no, or sort of an app like this, where I have no immediate financial benefit.
0:08:42It's entirely a goal or a play of seeing how big of an interest I could get in this app,
0:08:48when if I take away all the potential limiters, all the potential things that might get in
0:08:54the way of its growth, and then just see.
0:08:56And in a weird way, there's a very small chance that it goes anywhere.
0:09:00There's still a very, the most likely scenario is that even completely free, no barriers,
0:09:05no one downloads it or uses it in the long term.
0:09:09But I can potentially, rather than having a very high chance of having a very good chance
0:09:15of having a very small audience, I have a very small chance of having a potentially
0:09:18big audience.
0:09:19So, I don't know.
0:09:20Is that crazy?
0:09:23Probably not.
0:09:24It's just, it's hard to think about.
0:09:26It's hard for people like us who don't usually do future bets on growth and figure, and thinking
0:09:35like, "Maybe we'll make money on this someday in the future."
0:09:37That's not something that we as indie iOS developers usually do.
0:09:43And that is how a large part of the industry works, so it's probably worth considering
0:09:48that.
0:09:49As you kind of mentioned, you kind of said it was analogous to a VC kind of model.
0:09:55With the disclaimer that neither of us are venture capitalists, I think that's not a
0:09:58bad metaphor.
0:10:00In the VC world, they know if you just have a big audience, and more importantly, if you
0:10:05have growth that seems to be consistent or accelerating, there will be a way for that
0:10:10to be valuable.
0:10:13Even if it isn't immediately apparent, even if you defer that value until later, and sometimes,
0:10:20in many cases, getting that growth is so important and so valuable that they intentionally defer
0:10:26any kind of monetization just to leave the doors as wide open as possible for people
0:10:30to come in.
0:10:31And then they figure later down the road, this can be worth something to somebody, whether
0:10:35it's direct or whether it's then being sold to someone else, and then they figure out
0:10:39how to monetize it, or if it never needs to be directly monetized at all.
0:10:43There's lots of situations where something has value to the people who make it or who
0:10:50fund it, even if it never collects direct revenue.
0:10:53There's all sorts of side benefits things can have, or strategic benefits to some bigger
0:11:00picture.
0:11:01It's not a bad idea, and it's also not a bad idea to say, "I don't even know what
0:11:06the outcome could be," but since it's already ... You've already made some money
0:11:12off of it, and that money has already dried up, basically.
0:11:16So it's like, on some level, it's like, "Well, what are your options here?"
0:11:23You ran through the challenges of this particular app, Workouts++.
0:11:28There's not a lot of places it can be easily monetized in ways that are likely to succeed,
0:11:34because it is mostly used on the watch.
0:11:37It's hardly ever launched on the phone.
0:11:41That's just going to be really, really hard to monetize it in a meaningful way.
0:11:45So I think you're kind of in a corner here that I don't really think you have a lot
0:11:50of other options, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, because it would be kind of freeing
0:11:57to just let go of the idea of direct monetization with this app and just see what happens.
0:12:03You have enough apps and enough experience out there that you know the kinds of user
0:12:09numbers that you can get when something has no boundaries, like when it's totally free
0:12:14or when it's free with an app purchase.
0:12:16You've seen those numbers, and you've seen what it gets when it's paid up front, too.
0:12:20I think you have enough experience and data to be able to make that kind of decision.
0:12:26Yeah, and I think something that is a weird thing to say, but I feel like the thing that
0:12:31makes me want to do this most is that I've never done it before.
0:12:37And something that I have found time and time again in the many, many years, what is it,
0:12:42almost nine years of being an iOS developer, is that the time that I've learned from the
0:12:53most or expanded my business the most have tended to be the things and the times when
0:12:59I'm doing something new, where I'm doing something that I haven't tried before.
0:13:04Because otherwise, I imagine—the problem I so often will fall into, I think, is that
0:13:10I am doing things the same way that I've done them before.
0:13:15And sometimes that's good.
0:13:16Like there's a good lesson to be learned, or there's a best practice that you can
0:13:20pull from something.
0:13:22But very often, I think that I get stuck on, "Well, I did this this way before, so let
0:13:29me do it that way again."
0:13:32And that is probably in the long term the death of my business.
0:13:38That if I keep trying to just do the same thing in the same way, even if it can be effective
0:13:42in the short term, I kind of get nervous.
0:13:45In this funny way, as soon as I had this idea that I was sitting there, I was like, "You
0:13:49know, what if I just make it totally free?"
0:13:52Even though the fact that in many ways that is foolish, there's a definite downside
0:14:02in a financial cost.
0:14:04I have a reasonable expectation that if I have a big update and I get a little press
0:14:09and do my little things, that I would have a nice couple of weeks of income.
0:14:13But it's the understanding that maybe it's better to not worry about that.
0:14:18And because I've never had that perspective, that's exciting and interesting to me in
0:14:24a funny way.
0:14:26And I think it reminds me of the importance of not being complacent with anything.
0:14:32To just always be looking for opportunities to try.
0:14:35In this case, it's a good thing to try because it's not doing anything for me now.
0:14:40I have this thing that maybe has a potential upside or potential interest somewhere down
0:14:44the road that's never going to be realized in its current state.
0:14:48So let's try it and see.
0:14:50And maybe there'll be a podcast in a couple of weeks or a couple of months where I'm
0:14:53like, "That was a terrible idea."
0:14:56And then I can change course or decide what I want to do at that point.
0:15:00But in a weird way, it's almost like whenever I encounter a place that's like, "I've
0:15:04never done that before," that makes me doubly and perhaps slightly irrationally interested
0:15:09in trying it.
0:15:11Just so that I can finally add that data point into my collection of other data points and
0:15:16be able to make a better decision for whatever my next app is, whatever that may be.
0:15:20Well, and there's other value here too.
0:15:23Like in direct value, you're getting these users and you mentioned earlier that some
0:15:29of them will buy your other app.
0:15:30So that's some value right there.
0:15:31You're going to get a certain number of people from any kind of press you get.
0:15:35More of them will stick around because there's no barriers to them sticking around.
0:15:39So then you'll have even more people looking at your other apps.
0:15:42You'll have some spillover press where people who see the press will look at your other
0:15:45apps.
0:15:46So there's direct benefits there.
0:15:47Also, you are not talking about it on a podcast episode.
0:15:50You're probably going to talk about it again on at least one more podcast episode.
0:15:54We get paid to do these podcast episodes.
0:15:56So you're generating good topics for content for other ways you get paid.
0:16:04And then if new listeners come in because they wanted to hear how that turned out, maybe
0:16:09you write a blog post about it.
0:16:11And you don't have ads in your site, but then those people might come to the podcast
0:16:15where we have ads, which I'm about to do in a minute, and they might stick around.
0:16:20So then not only did you get paid for that episode where we talked about this, but then
0:16:24if they stick around, we can raise our rates down the road.
0:16:27And then that person has delivered you value down the road of increased money per podcast
0:16:33episode.
0:16:34So there's a lot of network effect here that builds over time.
0:16:38Also, next time you have a new app to launch, you have a place you can promote that where
0:16:43there's more people listening.
0:16:45Both the podcast will have more listeners, and then you can even do an in-app promotion
0:16:49in Workouts++, which has this now massive free audience.
0:16:53And then you can sell another app.
0:16:56So there is a lot of network benefit here to you.
0:17:00Even if that one app itself does not directly make the money, it can cause this network
0:17:06effect to happen.
0:17:07I know this is not the current use of network effect.
0:17:10It can cause these side effects to happen that themselves can bring you value.
0:17:15Yeah, and I think what's liberating in a weird way about that is I think it's so easy to...
0:17:23And maybe it's certainly different.
0:17:24I appreciate that I'm in a privileged position to have other apps and other means of support
0:17:31that allow me to do things like this.
0:17:33It's probably fair to say just like, "Yep, I totally get the privileged position that
0:17:36that is."
0:17:37That if this was my first app, this would probably not be a great idea.
0:17:43But because it isn't, because I do have this opportunity.
0:17:47It's interesting to...
0:17:50As you were saying, there's all of these other things that, these other potential avenues
0:17:54for benefit that I typically close myself off to because I get too short-sighted.
0:18:04And in a weird way, it's so easy for myself and generally I would say the more indie development
0:18:10community to look down our noses at the more MBA, business-y folks who probably honestly
0:18:18have a better understanding of all those auxiliary benefits that you were just talking about.
0:18:23All of these other effects and things that maybe they quantify, maybe they don't, but
0:18:28they have a better understanding of the fact that it's like, "Don't worry.
0:18:31Just worrying about the income I'm going to get from an app in the near term is almost
0:18:36certainly not taking into account the full picture or the full understanding of what
0:18:42possibly could be coming down the road."
0:18:44And so as independent developers, we might have to be shooting ourselves in the foot
0:18:48as a result because we're so focused on this or what's going to happen now.
0:18:54And maybe when you're starting out and you're trying to launch your first app, that initial
0:18:57burst of income and having a sustainable living and paying for medical insurance and all of
0:19:02that, yeah, it's much more important.
0:19:05But understanding that that's not the only way to live is probably—it's definitely
0:19:11better to have a bigger breadth of perspective and maybe try and learn from another world.
0:19:17Like I tend to—consciously and unconsciously, I look down on VC apps in a weird way.
0:19:26And any time I find myself being elitist or biased or whatever, having a prejudice against
0:19:35something like that, that's probably not a good thing.
0:19:39In general in life, being prejudiced just without basis is not good.
0:19:44So maybe it's good to stretch ourselves, good to think about these types of things
0:19:49and try and learn from the result.
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0:21:23So I wanted to talk a little bit about an example I have from this world that I'm developing
0:21:29is my podcast MP3 encoder called Forecast.
0:21:35I've gone through similar thoughts as you with like what I should do with monetizing
0:21:40this.
0:21:41And this is a specialized tool.
0:21:45It's a Mac podcast MP3 encoder that lets you make chapters and stuff in them.
0:21:50And so this is going to have a very small audience.
0:21:53I think I'd be lucky to have hundreds of people using it, certainly not more than that.
0:22:00And if you do some quick math, like how much do you have to charge money to make meaningful
0:22:05money when your customer base is that small?
0:22:08Like I did like, quick math, suppose I charge 50 bucks for the app, which is I think decent
0:22:13for like a Mac, a good Mac utility.
0:22:16So suppose it's 50 bucks.
0:22:17If I get 500 customers, which is way higher than I think I will get, especially if it
0:22:22costs 50 bucks, that's $25,000 gross.
0:22:26After taxes, that's more like $15,000, thanks New York.
0:22:29And so, you know, it's like I'm going to have to build up the infrastructure and provide
0:22:35the level of support that people would expect from a $50 app to only make at most maybe
0:22:42$15,000 over the lifetime of this app?
0:22:45That's a balance that like, what you have to put in place to support a $50 app properly
0:22:51to what customers would expect for that, it's not worth that to me to make that amount of
0:22:56money.
0:22:57Like I would want to be making more money if I was going to set that up at all.
0:23:00And if it's 50 bucks, like I think 500 customers is actually pretty optimistic.
0:23:05I think a way more likely number is 100 customers, in which case I'm making $3,000, which I can
0:23:12buy a MacBook Pro, but that's about it.
0:23:13I can buy most of a MacBook Pro.
0:23:15But like, this is not, we're not talking major money here.
0:23:20And so it wouldn't be worth the overhead to me of having to support having it be a paid
0:23:25app.
0:23:27So I started looking at like, you know, what are the other benefits of this app existing?
0:23:30I mean, and one of them, and you know, you mentioned like you use Workouts++.
0:23:35You like it.
0:23:36And so, you know, I use Forecast.
0:23:38A lot of my podcaster friends use it.
0:23:40Soon, once I release it, other people will be able to use it too.
0:23:44And it benefits us all simply by existing.
0:23:47Like the fact, just that I wrote it, that is a benefit to me because it saves me time
0:23:51every week and lets me make podcasts better.
0:23:52Like, and the podcasts make money.
0:23:55Even if I never make a dime from it, and even if it has, even if I never even distributed
0:23:59to anybody else, it already has been worth the time I put into making it just for the
0:24:03value it provides to me.
0:24:05And then also there's things like political goals.
0:24:07Like I, you know, like I believe that it would benefit podcasting as a whole if more people
0:24:13use tools like this.
0:24:16And I can advance certain goals I have.
0:24:18Like I think MP3 is the best format for distributing podcasts right now.
0:24:22Not AAC.
0:24:23And if people currently want to use chapters, they often use AAC.
0:24:27And so I think MP3 is better for that.
0:24:29So I can put up this tool to kind of advance that agenda.
0:24:32And I have this other app, Overcast, which has, you know, that does make money.
0:24:38And there are ways that a podcast encoder could benefit Overcast.
0:24:43So for instance, Overcast will always support every forecast feature.
0:24:48Like I, you know, I can make sure that like the way I do chapters in forecast will work
0:24:53in Overcast because I'm writing both sides.
0:24:55It's using the same library on both ends.
0:24:58I can make sure that always works properly.
0:25:00I can also build new features into Overcast that require some kind of metadata on the
0:25:07encoding side.
0:25:08And then I can add that to forecast.
0:25:10And I can have this, you know, at least the podcasts who use it, they can then use these
0:25:14features that I can integrate into Overcast.
0:25:17And so like there are options I have there.
0:25:20And there are lots of alternative business models I can use besides paid up front, obviously.
0:25:23There's like, you know, trials and, you know, NAGWARE and stuff like that.
0:25:28I don't really want to do that.
0:25:30There is one thing though that could be a direct benefit here is that forecast is used
0:25:36by podcast producers.
0:25:38I need to reach podcast listeners for Overcast.
0:25:41I need podcast producers to promote Overcast.
0:25:44So I could make it just like the deal is if you use forecast, you need to either buy some
0:25:51kind of like Goodwill policy or buy like forcibly embedding a promo unless you pay or something
0:25:57like that.
0:25:58I could require users of forecast to promote Overcast in their shows.
0:26:03That's a little gross.
0:26:04I, you know, I don't like having it be a hard requirement, but I could just put like a little
0:26:07piece of text somewhere saying, hey, you know, please promote Overcast periodically in your
0:26:10shows if you like this, you know, and that, you know, not everybody would do that.
0:26:14Probably a very low percentage of the users would do it, but if any of them do it, that's
0:26:18still a benefit.
0:26:19So there are lots of ways that I can look at this and like it's very clear to me that
0:26:23I do not want this to be a paid up front app because it wouldn't bring in enough money
0:26:27to be worth the hassle and the support costs.
0:26:29But there's lots of other things I can do that the more people use it, the better these
0:26:33effects get.
0:26:34So it probably should be free.
0:26:35Yeah.
0:26:36And I think as you're unpacking, sort of unpacking that what I see is it's exactly the same sort
0:26:42of situation that you were outlining for what I'm finding myself with, where it's the these
0:26:47auxiliary effects or network effects or whatever these like these sort of these vague kind
0:26:52of slightly amorphous but definite benefits that just having it out there as broadly as
0:26:59possible because taking advantage of the fact that it doesn't like cost us, we're not producing
0:27:04a physical object that we costs us money to produce like an extra copy.
0:27:08It's just we can just put the put it out there and it's as many people who's use it as possible,
0:27:12like there's no ongoing cost to us that that nest sort of almost necessarily accrues all
0:27:19these other little aside benefits that are wonderful.
0:27:23And especially because it's like it's not totally orthogonal to like your main business.
0:27:27Like if it were like you wrote this Mac, you wrote a to do list manager on for the Mac.
0:27:33Like, okay, that's a bit more complicated to have these kind of these beneficial overlaps.
0:27:39But like even just the fact of like podcast producers be knowing about overcast is a great
0:27:45thing.
0:27:46And keeping in mind that people the people who buy the ads that are shown in overcast
0:27:51are podcast producers currently, right?
0:27:53Right, exactly.
0:27:54Like just making them aware of overcast and having it be a marketing tool like in a weird
0:28:01way.
0:28:02It's like whatever potential cost you are giving up whatever that few thousand dollars
0:28:06is and not have not trying to get money from it.
0:28:09It's like just viewing it as a strict marketing expense like the forecast is a elaborate advertisement.
0:28:16advertisement for overcast that is targeted at a very specific demographic, but turns
0:28:22out to be the demographic that you are trying to reach to buy ads in your app.
0:28:27Like it is such an interesting thing when you stop if you like when you like all these
0:28:31little benefits that can appear when you don't worry about the short term benefit of it like
0:28:38all these down the road like just it's hard to quantify.
0:28:41It's hard to know but I'm almost certainly the more people who know about overcast that's
0:28:47better than not so like making it free and just having the goal of it being you know
0:28:53that as many of as high a number of podcast producers as possible are using it, you know,
0:28:59that's awesome and especially because like I know which of the apps that I podcast that
0:29:04I listen to are using forecast because they have great like the way they have great chapters
0:29:11and the way the chapters work like it all works seamlessly in overcast and so that makes
0:29:15overcast look good like the more people who do that the better it would be so like seems
0:29:19like it's a win-win everywhere.
0:29:20Exactly.
0:29:21Well, thanks everybody for listening.
0:29:23We're out of time this week.
0:29:24Make sure that you download Workouts++, buy it while it's still paid and then buy all
0:29:29David's other apps and then make sure you use forecast whenever you sit.
0:29:32In the meantime, please use overcast and please patronize our fine sponsors on the show.
0:29:37Thanks for listening everybody.
0:29:38Please like and subscribe and we'll talk to you next week.
0:29:40week. Bye!