Under the Radar

62: App Store Reviews


00:00:00   Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development.

00:00:03   I'm Marco Arment.

00:00:05   And I'm David Smith. Under the Radar is never longer than 30 minutes, so let's get started.

00:00:09   One star, useless.

00:00:11   What a terrible review.

00:00:12   So today we're going to talk about the review system in the App Store.

00:00:19   So I think we're going to start off by talking about a little bit of the way it's structured,

00:00:24   and maybe some of its origins, and some of the implications of the way our customers

00:00:28   actually see that, and then towards the end I think we're going to dive into a little bit

00:00:32   of the way, as a developer, we should approach using, you know, asking for reviews, and dealing

00:00:40   with reviews that are given to us, and so on.

00:00:42   So the review system in the App Store is very much, you can kind of tell that it is based on

00:00:49   the review system for something like a movie or music or something, you know,

00:00:56   the origins of the App Store is certainly all from iTunes, and so you can kind of see that.

00:01:00   The trickiness of that is that it was definitely not designed for something like software.

00:01:07   That changes all the time, that, or at least changes often, you know, a movie or something,

00:01:13   you publish it and it's the same forever.

00:01:14   Software changes on a regular basis, and so it was definitely early on especially very awkward,

00:01:20   because reviews would just stay around forever, and you could have reviews,

00:01:24   bad reviews, you know, for you to release a busted version,

00:01:27   you get a bunch of one star reviews, you submit the fix, those one star reviews were still there.

00:01:32   And so eventually Apple went through and changed it so that now your reviews that are visible

00:01:38   initially to the user are always based on your most recent version, which is sometimes problematic

00:01:44   when you first release a new version, because it means that if you don't have, I think it's five

00:01:49   or so reviews for your application, you don't show it doesn't show any of them. I think it's

00:01:54   just essentially to prevent for the situation where if your first review was a one star review,

00:01:58   or your first review was a five star review, they're not going to say that that's the rating

00:02:03   for your your app, just because you only have one, so you need a certain number of them.

00:02:08   So it's a little awkward when you submit a new update, and someone comes to look at your app,

00:02:11   and it says, Hey, there's no, you know, there's no right ranking for this app, which I think is

00:02:17   an implication, at least if it's like, that's not good. It's not necessarily bad directly. But

00:02:22   anyway, that's sort of the way it goes. But I think star ratings, especially are a very powerful

00:02:30   indicator to our customers about the quality of our apps, because they're one of the few things

00:02:36   that are shown to the user when they first, you know, when they're in their first looking at the

00:02:40   list of apps. So, you know, that isn't from me, maybe it's the right way to say it, you know,

00:02:44   so they, if you search for one of my apps in the App Store, it pops up, you'll see the icon I made

00:02:50   the name, I gave it the first few lines of the description, it screenshots and then the stars.

00:02:54   And the stars are the only part of that that aren't isn't marketing isn't just me making stuff up,

00:03:00   because obviously, everyone's gonna say my app is great, my app is awesome. The stars have this

00:03:05   vague sense of objectivity to them. And so I think they have probably a fairly significant impact on

00:03:12   what customers think about an app and with how, you know, how likely they are to download it. And

00:03:17   I think I've seen that definitely in terms of my own downloads, where I know that if my star rating

00:03:23   starts to go down, or I do a doom update, and the star rating disappears for a couple of days,

00:03:28   that it can have a noticeable, you know, reduction in downloads that it's, you know, it's not like

00:03:34   they go to zero, but it's, you know, there's 20-30% of my downloads will start will go away

00:03:40   for a period until I'm able to build that up. And so I think it's something that we have to

00:03:45   deal with as developers to make sure that we're like, aware of that the importance of this and

00:03:50   then also, it's like really awkward because you get into all the tricky things that you can get

00:03:54   into where people start, you know, paying people to review their apps, paying people to give five

00:03:58   star reviews, which, you know, eventually, if Apple catches you doing that, they'll pull you out of

00:04:04   the App Store for that kind of thing. But it's this really strange tension of where is the appropriateness

00:04:10   there? You know, how is asking for a review fine? Is asking for a review in a in the app okay? Is it

00:04:17   fine out somewhere outside of the app, etc. But it's all a big mess. But ultimately, and probably

00:04:21   the best place to start is just the importance of that star rating and trying to keep it up.

00:04:27   Yeah, I mean, it much like a lot of the App Store, it's the kind of thing where like,

00:04:32   the system is not perfect. We as developers have to basically grin and bear it, we have to work

00:04:38   around its flaws or tolerate its flaws or, you know, somehow just accommodate them. But also,

00:04:43   like, it's hard to imagine a lot of better systems. Like, I have tons of ideas and how they could

00:04:49   improve user reviews on the App Store. But it's not going to be like a massive improvement. Like,

00:04:56   it's if they're going to have user reviews at all, they're doing an okay job of it. Again, not

00:05:02   a wonderful job, but an okay job of it, you know, and again, like, changing it would be incremental,

00:05:06   not revolutionary. And I do think it is, it serves a useful purpose to have user reviews. Like,

00:05:15   you know, I've often thought, like, there's a lot of contexts in which there are no user reviews,

00:05:19   you know, on your own sales page. Like, that's how the web works. Like, you know, if you go to buy

00:05:25   software and you go to the company's website, they're not going to have a set, well, they

00:05:29   usually aren't going to have a section of random user submitted unfiltered reviews. You know,

00:05:35   they're going to handpick, you know, they're going to cherry pick what good things have been said

00:05:38   about them. And that's going to be all you see. And it's weird to have, like, on the page that

00:05:44   everybody will go to, even if somebody goes to your site for an iOS app, fully intends to get it,

00:05:49   you send them through to click through to the App Store page for them to actually download it,

00:05:53   and they're seeing those star reviews. So you can't escape, your customers will always see

00:05:58   those star reviews. So they are probably important from that point of view. However, I really don't

00:06:07   know how important the nitty-gritty details are for customers. So for instance, I think the average

00:06:14   star rating that people see is probably fairly important. You know, you said you've seen a dip

00:06:19   in downloads when it's been too early for a version to show a rating. Can you tell, have you,

00:06:25   have you isolated enough variables to really have any idea whether it matters, whether it's like

00:06:29   two star or four star average? Um, not, not quite to that level. I don't, like, I think there's,

00:06:37   I've seen measurable impacts when you have a bad version that has a really bad rating,

00:06:43   where the, you know, the number, it's like, I don't know if there's a difference between being

00:06:50   four, four and a half or five. Like if you're on the high end, like the difference between those,

00:06:56   I haven't been quite been able to narrow it down, but I think there's definitely an impact. Like

00:06:59   if you have a really bad, really low rating is really bad and probably even in some ways worse

00:07:04   than having no rating at all. Because like the people, it's like the active statement of like,

00:07:10   this app is bad rather than like, I don't know, what is this app? That's true. But,

00:07:14   but there is definitely something funny there too. I think it's also interesting that in the

00:07:20   App Store, they show the number of reviews that have been left, like in little parentheses after

00:07:25   the star rating. And I feel like that number is also probably somewhat indicative as well. Because

00:07:30   like if the, you know, it's like five stars for views or whatever, you know, a very small number,

00:07:35   it probably carries a lot less weight than if you have, you know, 1,600 reviews and the average

00:07:42   rating is five stars. Like that also has more weight to it. Probably that, but yeah, it's a

00:07:48   really awkward thing to try and like actually isolate and work out the impact because it's such

00:07:53   a fluid thing. And it's something that, you know, as a developer, we don't have any direct control

00:07:58   over. And so it's like, you can like run an experiment of like, let me try running the App

00:08:02   Store if I have a five star review. Let me see if I have a four star review. So it's always just kind

00:08:06   of more anecdotal and kind of just gut feeling about how it works. Yeah, I mean, you know, as

00:08:13   somebody like, I buy things on Amazon all the time, I occasionally will look for new apps on

00:08:18   either iOS or even the Mac App Store. And as a buyer, like when I'm looking at reviews, I hardly

00:08:24   ever read any actual posted review text. But I almost always will look at the average star rating

00:08:32   and the approximate number of ratings. And that's one thing like when I'm buying something on Amazon,

00:08:36   you know, if I'm buying like something where there's a lot of fairly commoditized similar

00:08:41   competition, like a cable, you know, something like that, like if there's one that has 900 reviews

00:08:48   and a four and a half star average, and there's one that has five reviews and a five star average,

00:08:53   you know, that stands out to me. And I will pick the more popular one. I will figure there's

00:08:58   probably some reason why they have so many more that that's probably a good sign. And it's just

00:09:02   a larger sample set. So to achieve a decent average with that big of a sample set is a pretty good

00:09:07   sign compared to something with five reviews, right? And I have to imagine that most people

00:09:11   will do the same thing with App Store reviews. Because it's, you know, whatever we think of our

00:09:17   apps and our position in the market, the way I think the market has shown us over and over again

00:09:23   that it actually works is very much like people buying basic cables on Amazon, where it's like,

00:09:28   they're looking at a list of a thousand apps that all look the same. And they're going to just pick

00:09:33   the one that has like, you know, that shows up near the top, probably the one that's free,

00:09:38   if there is one that's free, which is there almost always is. And they're going to pick the one that

00:09:41   has a decent looking, you know, name and icon and screenshot maybe, and they're going to end with

00:09:47   decent ratings. So in the aggregate, I do think these are very important to to kind of just keep

00:09:54   your average up, and to try to get a good number of reviews. That being said, I think the specifics

00:10:01   of like, if you have an app that has mostly good reviews, and there's one angry person who leaves

00:10:05   the one star and trashes you in the review, even with stuff that isn't even true, I mean, look,

00:10:10   my attitude, both in, you know, personally and in my software development style,

00:10:17   my attitude inspires extreme feelings in some people. And I get a lot of those extremes, and

00:10:26   some of that is great, most of it is great, you know, most of my reviews tend to be pretty

00:10:30   positive. But there's always with anything I do, I could write a blog post saying the sky is blue,

00:10:36   and there'll be one person raging against it on Twitter. You know, it's like, anything I do,

00:10:41   because of my attitude and style, it will anger a certain number of people, right? And so

00:10:47   everything I do always has a small percentage of really negative response or reviews on it.

00:10:54   So you know, even the best versions of Overcast, the best version of Instapaper, like even like

00:10:59   the most uncontroversial updates, there's always a one star review or two or three or four, you know,

00:11:04   they're always there. And some of them get really rude, and some of them are really personal,

00:11:08   but whatever, it doesn't really. So basically, I've stopped reading them, like, because it's just,

00:11:14   I found it mostly unhelpful to read the reviews. I find it much more helpful to pay attention to

00:11:22   what people are saying via email and Twitter. And even though I don't usually even respond to those,

00:11:27   and sometimes it gets overwhelming, I can't even read them all, honestly,

00:11:30   but usually I'm able to keep up with reading them. And you know, the more engaged somebody is with

00:11:38   trying to contact you and trying to use your app, I think the more useful their feedback tends to be.

00:11:45   And so App Store reviews are kind of the bottom of the barrel. Like, somebody can look at your app

00:11:51   for three seconds and leave a review, and they don't even, like, they didn't get to your contact

00:11:55   link. They didn't find your Twitter username. It's like, there's a lower barrier to entry there.

00:12:00   And to some degree, that means you're going to get more feedback that way, which is often a good

00:12:04   thing, but it also means that the level of engagement of these users, the level of effort

00:12:08   of these users is pretty low on average. And so you're going to get more of the crap that you

00:12:15   should mentally filter out coming in through that channel than through other channels. And so the

00:12:21   way I look at individual reviews, the ones that are one star and angry and everything, is if I see

00:12:27   one, which again, I've been seeing fewer and fewer because I stopped reading the reviews for the most

00:12:32   part, but if I see one making a reasonable point, I will take mental note. Like, okay, this person

00:12:39   really, really hates my decision to remove this feature six months ago or whatever. Okay, that's

00:12:47   kind of like an upvote in my head of like, maybe I should reconsider that or whatever else, or maybe

00:12:52   people want a way to address this problem that I removed forever ago. But for the most part,

00:12:58   I don't think you have to worry that much about any individual review, both score wise or its

00:13:04   content, because what matters way more to the people who are actually browsing for your app

00:13:10   is the number of reviews and the average star rating. And I would be very surprised

00:13:14   if a lot of people actually went through and read a meaningful number of reviews.

00:13:19   Now, this obviously is a bigger problem if you don't have very many reviews. And so we'll get

00:13:25   into this, but like, you know, all the the problem of like the occasional one star angry people is

00:13:31   magnified the fewer reviews you have, because, you know, there's fewer reviews to kind of bury it or

00:13:35   average it out or whatever else. And so I've been lucky that Overcast has almost always had a very

00:13:42   large number of reviews. And I think we'll talk after the after the sponsor break about kind of

00:13:46   how and why and when and when not to ask for reviews. Because I think I think that does have

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00:15:08   Yeah, because I think what the thing that's so tricky with all these things with reviews is this

00:15:12   finding this balance between like, it's a really it's an odd part of the development process,

00:15:20   because we don't have any direct control over it. But it has a direct impact on us. And there are

00:15:27   very few things I think in the development process, like one of the things that I love

00:15:30   about being a developer is that, like, I'm telling my app what to do, like, it's a little bit control

00:15:35   freaky. Like I enjoy that I can control all the behaviors, all the aesthetics, everything in my

00:15:41   app I can control, because it exists, you know, as a result of like sitting down in Xcode and making

00:15:46   it. But the reviews are completely out of my control. Like I have no direct way of doing that.

00:15:51   Instead, and I think like we were just saying, it's, it's like, any individual reviews, probably

00:15:56   not all that important. What's more important, though, is that we are able to encourage our

00:16:02   customers to go there and a high enough volume of customers to go there, such that you have a

00:16:09   representative sample. And obviously, I prefer to be representative of customers who love my app and

00:16:15   want to give it five stars and talk about it lovely. But at the very least, I want that number

00:16:20   to be significant so that it isn't just drowned out by the one person who's angry or even just

00:16:26   giving that bad impression of like, why does this app only have seven reviews? Like, you kind of,

00:16:31   at least in my mind, I sort of like, I don't know what exactly what the multiplier is. But I'm like,

00:16:36   if the app, you know, it's like, there's a certain like the audience in the customer base of this app

00:16:40   is probably some multiplier of that. And so if it's only like seven, maybe the app is kind of,

00:16:46   is only used by a handful of people and isn't that good. And so there's this strange tension, though.

00:16:50   And there was this, it's probably three or four years now, but there was a big hoo-ha a couple

00:16:57   years ago where around the like little pop up dialogues that a lot of apps use where

00:17:03   you're using the app, using the app, then all of a sudden it pops up and says, "Hey,

00:17:08   you know, review my app." And there was an app, there was a library called AppRater that was used

00:17:15   in just hundreds and hundreds of apps and got, you know, had this very aggressive version of that.

00:17:22   And I think it's something that I try and always avoid in my apps. Like, I've never really

00:17:27   felt great about doing this because the reality is like, the reviews are primarily beneficial to me.

00:17:34   And they're beneficial to future potential customers. The actual current customer who's

00:17:41   using it, the review doesn't really benefit them in any way directly other than like,

00:17:46   the vague sense that it makes my, it helps me, which helps them because it helps me to be wanting

00:17:52   to make the app better for them. But it's mostly just they're doing me a favor. And so I need to

00:17:59   look at it from that perspective. And I think in a lot of my apps, I've avoided putting in things to

00:18:04   kind of ask for them for that because it is asking them a favor. It's like, you don't want to, you

00:18:10   want to be really thoughtful of anytime you ask your audience for something. But then I also look

00:18:15   in the App Store. And like, so the reason this is top of mind for me is I just went through and added

00:18:20   a little section in the settings area of Podometer++ where it says, you know, would you

00:18:25   like to please leave a review? And leaving a review really helps. Thank you, essentially,

00:18:29   like I have a little button to go to the App Store to leave a review. And I hadn't had one in there

00:18:35   for a long time. The app usually was reviewed fairly well, but I was starting to look at,

00:18:39   look at it from the perspective of a new customer. And I went into the App Store and I started,

00:18:42   you know, searching for the terms that you would search for if you were going to try and find that

00:18:47   app. And what I was noticing is that I had massively disproportionately lower number of

00:18:53   reviews than my customers. And based on like where we rank together, our downloads are fairly similar,

00:18:59   which makes me think that a lot of it is coming just from the fact that I'm pretty sure a lot of

00:19:03   those competing apps have the like, in your face pop up, "Hey, go download the app," and enough

00:19:09   people go do that, that their numbers look good. But from a fresh customer's perspective, that means

00:19:14   that my app looks like nobody uses it or the, you know, very few or disproportionately fewer that,

00:19:19   you know, our star, the actual average star rating is very similar, but I have a 10th of the number

00:19:26   of users or reviews left. And so it's like, now I've added this. I don't feel great about it,

00:19:31   but I think putting it in, you know, it's in the bottom of the settings area. It's the kind of

00:19:35   thing that you'd probably only find if you are, you know, you've used the app a little bit. And

00:19:43   it's also, you know, it's never in, it's never going to be in the course of the core functionality

00:19:48   of the app. So in this case, like showing you your steps, it's not like you open it up to see

00:19:51   your steps and your steps are hidden away behind something asking you to go and do it. But I think

00:19:56   the reality is not having one of those was kind of a disadvantage, it was putting my, putting myself

00:20:04   at a disadvantage that it probably didn't need to be. Yeah. I mean, I kind of came around to that as

00:20:10   well. And I came up with a similar solution for Overcast and Overcast 1.0 was released in, what

00:20:17   was 2014? It was kind of right in the middle of a lot of this debate about the irate dialogue box.

00:20:24   And I mean, these rate my app boxes are now so ubiquitous, like, you know, big apps like

00:20:30   Instagram does it, it bothered me all the time. My bank, Chase, the Chase bank app does it. I'm

00:20:35   like, really? Like, I'm trying to deposit a check. And like, this is like business stuff and you're

00:20:39   interrupting my business stuff with my business bank for your stupid rate my app dialogue for a

00:20:44   bank app like that. But yes, they're so ubiquitous. And I think, you know, what you said is perfect

00:20:51   about like, you know, you're asking, the app is interrupting good usage of your app to do

00:20:57   themselves an advertising favor. And that's, that's kind of rubbed me the wrong way as a customer and

00:21:02   a user of these apps. And so, in my apps, I've always kind of been, you know, not only refusing

00:21:10   to do that kind of interruption, but for a while I like with Instapaper and the magazine, I never

00:21:15   had a link even in settings or anything to rate because I just thought like, kind of like the pure

00:21:20   angle kind of like back before I would do colon keywords after a title of an app. You know, I used

00:21:25   to think, well, this is, I want to do things like the pure proper way and this is just how things

00:21:29   should work. And sometimes how things should work isn't how things do work. And so, you have to find

00:21:35   some kind of compromise. And so, you know, with all these little, you know, App Store realities

00:21:40   shortcomings, you know, like the keyword title thing, I found a compromise of with Overcast.

00:21:44   I actually couldn't name it Overcast. There was another app in the store with that exact name. It

00:21:48   was a cloud file related app. So, it wasn't even like the same kind of thing. But I had to call it

00:21:54   Overcast something. So, I called it Overcast colon podcast player, like the most basic, honest,

00:21:59   short keyword thing I could really come up with. And so, with the user ratings thing, I had a

00:22:07   similar kind of compromise where with Overcast 1.0, it was clear that this kind of thing was

00:22:14   important. So, I wanted to address it somehow. And so, I just put in the settings area,

00:22:19   in the settings screen. It's still there now. It's been unchanged since version 1.0. I have on the

00:22:26   server side, when Overcast syncs, the part of the sync response is the cached ratings count from

00:22:36   iTunes, because you can get it through the iTunes API, the iTunes search API. So, you can get your

00:22:42   own ratings count from your server or directly from your app that way. So, the app keeps a record

00:22:47   of the ratings count for the current version. And so, in the settings screen, again, it's been

00:22:52   there since 1.0. I have a simple item right next to the feedback item that says, "Please rate

00:22:57   Overcast." And below it, it says, "2014 people have rated this version." And if that number is

00:23:04   less than, I think, 50, it says, "Only X people have rated this version." And right below that,

00:23:11   it says, "Overcast will never interrupt you for ratings." And I think enough people... This has

00:23:17   worked remarkably. So, my thinking here is, it's a simple, polite, relatively compact thing that

00:23:25   encourages people who like the app to go support it in this way, but is not pushy about it,

00:23:31   and clarifies right there that they will never be interrupted. So, this is telling them that... You

00:23:36   know, I thought about this very carefully. This is telling them that I respect them. It's telling

00:23:41   them right there I will never interrupt them for ratings. So, it's telling them I respect them. I

00:23:45   won't do this thing that everyone does that you hate. And also, please rate it. And if the number

00:23:52   seems low, especially when it's low enough to be prefixed with only, that's kind of an additional

00:23:56   push like, "Here's how much I can actually use your support right now." And I've never had to

00:24:01   call attention to it on Twitter or anything else. I've never called attention to it in the app. It's

00:24:07   just there in settings. And it has always gotten enough reviews with remarkable speed. And part of

00:24:13   that's... I've been fortunate with Overcast, the user base is pretty sizable now. But even back in

00:24:17   the early days, it was always that way. That kind of approach, when you just respect people and you

00:24:23   let people who like the app support it in this way, in a reasonable way, and without getting in

00:24:29   their face and annoying them, that's great. Now, that being said, that's not going to apply to

00:24:33   every app. And that's unfortunate. One of the defenses back in the day when these boxes were

00:24:39   being debated was, "Well, they work. And we need them." And so, I think what you have to just keep

00:24:46   in mind is that that's not the only approach that can work. And while you do probably need some kind

00:24:52   of easy way for people to rate your app, doing it in a more respectful way, like what we are doing

00:24:58   in our apps, not to toot our own horns too much, but doing this in a way that doesn't interrupt your

00:25:03   user and annoy them is, I think, a far superior way to do it. Because it works well enough,

00:25:09   so you don't need to be more pushy about it. Obviously, these kind of ways do work well enough.

00:25:14   And it doesn't compromise the user experience. And it doesn't annoy your legitimate good customers.

00:25:19   So to me, it's a win-win. Yeah, and I think too, there's...

00:25:24   these kinds of things, I always do also take the other... I always try and take the other perspective

00:25:28   too of the... I find a ratings dialogue very offensive, or at least very annoying. But I

00:25:36   sometimes do wonder if my... how many of my customers actually have that same experience

00:25:42   and same perspective. And it reminds me in many ways of the same way that, like, I don't like

00:25:46   using apps that have banner ads in them, but I make apps that have banner ads in them that

00:25:53   people use on a regular basis and doesn't seem to be a problem for people. Like,

00:25:57   people's thresholds for what they're annoyed by or what they consider,

00:26:00   you know, undesirable, are certainly different, I think, than what I have, which is fine. But it's

00:26:10   also something that I always try and keep in the back of my mind as I'm working on through these

00:26:13   kinds of things, is that while I may think that these things are really annoying, maybe some

00:26:19   people don't think they're annoying. Maybe some people think that they're actually useful. They're

00:26:22   like, "Oh, yeah, I'd love to support this app. I didn't know I could do that." Or, "This is

00:26:27   something that I enjoy doing." And they like being prompted to do it and the feeling of empowerment

00:26:31   of that or whatever. But what I think when I was trying to wrestle with this a little bit is I

00:26:36   think the approach that it probably makes sense for most developers is to keep an open mind in

00:26:42   terms of, like what I was just saying with myself, of like, while I may find these annoying, my

00:26:46   customers may not, but not to take that to mean as like a blank check to like, and just like, do

00:26:52   whatever I want, because someone might like it. But to view it from the perspective of like, this

00:26:57   is important. This is something that I think I've been negligent in for a lot of my apps of, you

00:27:03   know, making sure that I'm giving them every opportunity to succeed. And having a good, rich

00:27:09   set of reviews in the App Store is probably an important part of that. But the way to approach it

00:27:14   is to not just like jump all the way to 11 and be like, "Yeah, like just throw the dialog boxes up

00:27:22   every time they launch the app." Like, no, that's probably not right. But instead, when this is the

00:27:27   approach that I'm kind of planning to take with my apps going forward is it's like, I'm gonna,

00:27:31   I'm gonna do this incrementally. Like I used to have no dialog boxes at all. I would just have the,

00:27:36   like a sentence or two in my release notes was the place that I typically did it where like,

00:27:41   in my change log at the bottom, I'd be like, "Hey, if you have a minute, write a review,

00:27:44   that'd be great." Not only does nobody read those, but people who do see them, they're never going to

00:27:48   the bottom. Yeah. So like, that was, you know, by far the least, the least obtrusive version

00:27:54   that hasn't been working perfectly. So amazing, I'm going to put it in the settings area, right?

00:28:00   I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to put it there, and I'm going to engage the response.

00:28:03   Then I'll see how that goes. And I'm going to if that's not enough, if that's still not quite

00:28:09   getting the outcome that I'd like, it's like, maybe I'll put it in a different part of the

00:28:12   settings area right now. It's in the bottom, maybe I'll move it up to the top. And if that

00:28:15   doesn't work, maybe I'll periodically show it on the main screen, but not in a modal way. Like,

00:28:20   this is the mindset I'm trying to take though, of like, keeping my options open,

00:28:24   being respectful always, and not wanting to do things that are, you know, like, super user

00:28:30   hostile, but like keeping an open mind and doing this incrementally and seeing like, where is that

00:28:34   point? Because my suspicion is, and I think your experience certainly is a good example of this,

00:28:38   is like, you can find a place where you're kind of hitting that balance between getting the outcome

00:28:44   that you need, because you don't, there's not that probably much of a difference between having,

00:28:48   you know, 1000 and 2000 user reviews in the App Store, for example, like, my guess is, once you

00:28:53   hit four to four digits, like people are thinking you get a sense of like, wow, that's a lot of

00:28:57   reviews. And so you just got to get whatever have a mechanism such that you can hit that number

00:29:02   consistently. And once you can do that, I think you're probably going to be fine. And so I'm just

00:29:06   going to start as basic as I can. And I'm just going to keep dialing it up slowly until I hit

00:29:10   that point and see, you know, see where that actually is. I give this approach four stars.

00:29:15   That seems reasonable. I'll withhold the fifth until you do my favorite pet feature.

00:29:19   All right, we're out of time this week. Thank you very much, everybody, for listening.

00:29:23   And we will talk to you next week. Bye.