Under the Radar

25: The Calm Before the Storm


00:00:00   Welcome to under the radar a show about independent iOS app development

00:00:04   I'm Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under the radar is never longer than 30 minutes. So let's get started

00:00:09   So today we wanted to talk about

00:00:11   Kind of the what we're calling the calm before the storm

00:00:14   Basically what to do and what to work on and what not to work on in the few months leading up to WWDC

00:00:22   Because the idea here is you know as iOS developers or Mac developers if any of you are listening

00:00:29   WVDC usually includes some kind of major changes,

00:00:33   especially for iOS.

00:00:35   Some kind of major API changes, possibly design changes,

00:00:39   possibly business or marketing changes.

00:00:41   So there's always a lot to do in response

00:00:46   to what's announced at WVDC for the fall.

00:00:50   And so the question is, right now as we record this,

00:00:53   it's late April and WVDC's in mid-June.

00:00:58   So it's close enough that you don't necessarily

00:01:01   wanna get started on some kind of big project now,

00:01:05   right before WWDC, or months before WWDC.

00:01:08   And so the question is kinda like,

00:01:10   what do you do in this quiet time?

00:01:13   So David, what do you do usually?

00:01:15   - So I just got finished with Activity++,

00:01:19   which was my last, probably the last new app

00:01:22   that I launched before WWDC, and it was only launched

00:01:26   it was because 9.3 was new, had this new API, this new capability. Otherwise, this time

00:01:32   of year tends to be a sort of a cleanup phase. I was thinking about this in preparation for

00:01:40   this show of kind of what my normal year looks like, which is probably a good place to start

00:01:44   in some ways. So in many ways, my development year starts at WWDC on whatever Monday that

00:01:52   is. This year, June 13th, is essentially the developer New Year's, where at that point

00:02:00   we will have the roadmap of what's coming, what to expect, what's going to be important

00:02:06   for the next year until the next WWDC.

00:02:09   And like real New Year's, we also might have a hangover.

00:02:12   So that's, it's true.

00:02:14   So from there, we have a few months of time

00:02:21   until whatever's announced at W3C actually gets released.

00:02:24   So typically, recently this has been in June,

00:02:27   everything's announced in September-ish,

00:02:30   late September, early October, somewhere around there,

00:02:32   whenever the new iPhones come out, typically,

00:02:35   is the sort of the window we have to before,

00:02:39   from when the new stuff is announced

00:02:40   when the new stuff is available. So it's usually a pretty busy time for most developers, especially

00:02:46   if it's a big sweeping change. You know, think iOS 7, where it's like, "Okay, all of this

00:02:51   new UI stuff needs to be done," or those types of changes. Or it's like with the watch, like

00:02:56   here's watchOS 2 that's going to be coming out. You have this very busy period, essentially,

00:03:01   over the summer, and then you get all that out. Conceptually for me, my goal is then

00:03:09   to get everything nice and tidy for the holidays. So I want to be—it's not as pronounced

00:03:17   of a bump as it used to be, but around Christmas there's usually a nice solid bump in app

00:03:23   downloads and sales and things, because there's just a lot of people getting new devices,

00:03:28   and people getting new devices seem to be more apt to go and download things. So you

00:03:32   want to be sort of after the summer sort of intense phase, you have this cleanup phase,

00:03:39   running through Christmas, and then the early part of the year is when I tend to kind of

00:03:45   look at it as it's a good opportunity for doing point releases, like doing these kinds

00:03:52   of big updates but not massive changes, not like new apps typically, it's more just these

00:03:59   big changes. And then you get into this period right around now where I don't want to tackle

00:04:05   anything that I don't think I'm going to finish by June. And I don't want to really make new

00:04:13   small things because they may just become worthless or kind of deprecated or all these

00:04:20   types of things in June. And so right now it tends to be more kind of a cleanup phase

00:04:24   for me. So I'll look through—this is kind of the process I'm going through right now—I'll

00:04:27   look through my apps, which there are many, and I will kind of see what are the little

00:04:32   niggling things that I can do and things that have been on my to-do list for a while that

00:04:39   overall would make the apps better. And these tend to be updates that are more quality of

00:04:44   life updates, things that are just making the app easier to use or better or more stable,

00:04:50   that kind of thing, rather than like, "I'm going to implement this whole new radical

00:04:55   approach to something." These are things that a lot of them the users won't see directly,

00:05:00   or if they do, they'll just notice them

00:05:02   that things are better rather than totally different.

00:05:05   But for me, that's kind of the cycle

00:05:07   and what a year looks like.

00:05:08   And so now is this kind of fun place where,

00:05:11   I get to, it's a bit more experimental,

00:05:13   like I'm just going in and doing lots of tinkering,

00:05:15   which is kind of nice, I guess.

00:05:17   And it's nice to kind of also rest a bit

00:05:21   before the crazy sprint, or I guess marathon,

00:05:23   that is June to September.

00:05:26   - Oh yeah, I mean, I'm in pretty much complete agreement

00:05:29   with everything you just said.

00:05:30   In fact, you just covered basically my entire outline

00:05:32   for this episode in four minutes.

00:05:34   - Sorry.

00:05:36   - But yeah, basically this is a great time,

00:05:39   as you just mentioned, for anything,

00:05:42   any kind of administrative tasks, cleanup,

00:05:46   especially cleanup that is not the code

00:05:48   of your app necessarily.

00:05:51   Administration stuff, changing, updating your website

00:05:54   or your marketing structure, some kind like that

00:05:58   if you wanna make a better site

00:06:01   or play with certain kinds of advertising or whatever else.

00:06:04   Like this is a decent time to do that kind of stuff.

00:06:06   And as you said, it's also a really good time

00:06:08   to take vacations or to spend time with hobbies

00:06:11   or with family or whatever else

00:06:14   because a lot of people take vacation stuff

00:06:16   in the summertime, but because of the schedule

00:06:19   that we are on, a lot of time developers

00:06:21   can't take vacation or shouldn't take vacation

00:06:23   in the summertime because summer is so busy for us

00:06:26   tackling all the stuff that's gonna be

00:06:27   in the new version of iOS.

00:06:29   And so this is a great time for all that.

00:06:31   I mean mainly, the main thing is what you don't want

00:06:34   to be doing during this time ideally,

00:06:36   unless you really have to, but if you, ideally,

00:06:38   you don't wanna be tackling major updates to existing apps.

00:06:43   It's not a terrible time to write new apps,

00:06:45   which we'll get to, given certain parameters,

00:06:49   but this is not a great time to do major updates

00:06:53   to existing apps because in June,

00:06:56   When we get that WWDC Happy New Year Monday

00:06:59   and we start, we see the state of the unions

00:07:01   and we start seeing some of the new APIs,

00:07:04   what we usually find is that the new APIs

00:07:07   that are released in June to developers

00:07:10   and will be released in the fall to customers,

00:07:12   usually they will make our jobs easier

00:07:15   in some big ways in our code.

00:07:18   And even if they want us to make our jobs easier,

00:07:21   they will at least make our jobs different.

00:07:23   And so any amount of code that you write

00:07:27   in the months before WWDC,

00:07:29   it's kind of a liability that you might need,

00:07:31   that everything you're writing now,

00:07:32   you might need to adapt or rewrite in a few months.

00:07:36   You know, and there's always a liability of that

00:07:38   when you're writing code,

00:07:39   but here the timeline is so close

00:07:41   that it's kind of non-ideal.

00:07:43   If you can avoid writing tons of new code

00:07:45   or tons of adjustments to your app now, that's good.

00:07:50   This is especially true,

00:07:51   at least it used to be especially true

00:07:53   if you're writing Swift, since Swift is still so young

00:07:55   and changes so much, although at least now

00:07:57   with the open source roadmap, that should eliminate

00:08:00   most of the surprises that are coming with Swift,

00:08:02   and it's getting more mature.

00:08:04   But in general, the ground will shift in June,

00:08:08   so you don't wanna build a whole bunch of new code

00:08:11   on top of the old ground until you know

00:08:14   what the shift will be, and then maybe you can start

00:08:16   taking advantage of new APIs.

00:08:17   And it used to be the case that a lot of developers

00:08:21   couldn't take advantage of the new APIs yet because they had to support older versions

00:08:26   of iOS. I think over time that need has diminished somewhat. It's certainly not gone and certainly

00:08:33   there are a lot of people who still need to support old versions of iOS and if you do

00:08:37   then therefore some of the ground shifting stuff might not apply to you yet. But I think

00:08:44   most developers, especially most indie developers now can get away with supporting just the

00:08:49   the current version of iOS and the vast majority of the customers in most cases are okay with

00:08:53   that because adoption rates are so good these days. So really you want to avoid being incompatible

00:09:01   or causing more work for yourself for the new stuff coming in the fall. And this applies

00:09:05   not only to code but also to design, marketing, business because design wise there's obviously

00:09:12   there might be design changes to iOS. There's been rumors of more things related to the

00:09:19   True Tone and Night Shift, so maybe like a system-wide dark mode or something like that,

00:09:22   you've got to consider that. There might be design tweaks to the built-in widgets or to

00:09:27   just the conventions. There might be new styles that are, you know, new navigation controller

00:09:33   structures like a split view kind of thing, like, you know, new stuff like that that might

00:09:36   come out that might become like a new standard thing that people expect or want in the next

00:09:40   version of iOS. So it is not, like right now, is not a good time to redesign your UI because

00:09:45   'cause you don't know what the change will be yet.

00:09:48   Also marketing wise, there's considerations of

00:09:52   do you want to do any kind of smaller,

00:09:55   medium-sized releases now, and then also do

00:09:59   another medium-sized release in the fall,

00:10:02   or do you wanna cluster them together

00:10:03   and just wait, hold the stuff back now,

00:10:06   and then in the fall do a bigger release?

00:10:08   And of course there's pluses and minuses to that as well.

00:10:10   There's obviously more competition in the fall,

00:10:12   but there's also more people looking

00:10:14   and there's chances to be featured,

00:10:15   and we'll probably cover that at a later date.

00:10:18   But also just, it's worth considering

00:10:20   that any assumptions you make now

00:10:23   about the business of selling your app,

00:10:26   however you're making money,

00:10:28   whatever your structure is for collecting money

00:10:30   from people or not, whether you're doing ads,

00:10:33   whether you're doing upgrade payments,

00:10:34   whatever you're doing, the business model that you have now

00:10:38   might need to change once we learn

00:10:40   what we're going to learn in June.

00:10:42   So as you learned, David, like, IAD is shutting down.

00:10:45   So if you were depending on IAD a couple months ago,

00:10:48   well, now you have work to do.

00:10:50   In June, there might be other changes announced.

00:10:52   There might be changes to the App Store.

00:10:53   There might be new policies where maybe

00:10:55   what you're doing now won't be allowed anymore,

00:10:58   or maybe it won't work as well anymore.

00:11:00   And maybe there'll be new things that we can do,

00:11:02   new business models that become available or possible

00:11:05   or more practical than they used to be.

00:11:07   So this is all just a way to say

00:11:10   you should generally try to avoid any kind of major changes

00:11:15   to existing apps during this time period

00:11:17   because you might have to change it all again in two months.

00:11:20   - Yeah, and I think there's, in general,

00:11:22   it's like a lot of this speaks to a more fundamental thing

00:11:26   that I know is important, like an important thing for me

00:11:28   to learn in sort of the discipline of app creation

00:11:32   was the, rather than just, as it's so easy to do,

00:11:36   like just keep barreling ahead on,

00:11:39   like opening up Xcode every morning and just getting in there and writing the codes and

00:11:42   whatever you think of building, is trying to instead make sure that you're being thoughtful

00:11:48   about it and being somewhat disciplined about it. Because when I think about these types

00:11:53   of considerations for getting ready for June, a lot of what I'm trying to do is make sure

00:11:58   that I'm setting myself up so that on June 14th I am ready to dive headlong into whatever

00:12:07   is announced. And I may or may not, like, maybe what they announce isn't really relevant

00:12:12   to me or my app, or maybe it's just not that interesting, whatever it is. But what

00:12:17   I want is to make sure that I'm ready to do that and like I'm poised and capable

00:12:22   of doing that. Like what I don't want to do is to just like have been barreling along

00:12:26   doing something that's like creating all of these sort of responsibilities or commitments

00:12:33   that I'm gonna then have to be responsible for

00:12:36   in June, July, and August.

00:12:38   Like, that's where it would become very problematic.

00:12:40   And so I need to think about it and like, look,

00:12:42   you know, it's a struggle I know for myself

00:12:44   that when I used to work in a more corporate environment,

00:12:48   there was a certain amount of structure imposed on me

00:12:51   by like having a manager and my manager having a manager

00:12:53   and so on.

00:12:54   And we'd have to go through things like sprint planning.

00:12:57   When we work out, what are we gonna work on

00:12:58   for the next two weeks?

00:13:00   and go through all these exercises that,

00:13:03   in a corporate environment, are kind of just the way

00:13:06   you manage larger teams.

00:13:08   But when you're working for yourself,

00:13:10   or with a very small team,

00:13:11   that discipline has to come from yourself.

00:13:13   And so you have to look at these things and say,

00:13:16   well, I would love to add this feature to this app,

00:13:19   or I'd love to implement this new thing,

00:13:21   or do, or whatever that activity is you wanna do.

00:13:25   There's a certain amount of actually having to look at it

00:13:27   and say, "There's, I think, 44 days till WWDC.

00:13:30   "Can I get this done in then?

00:13:33   "And if I do, is that gonna set me up

00:13:35   "to be free and available afterwards?

00:13:38   "Or is it the kind of thing that's like,

00:13:40   "this is this big experimental thing that I'm working on

00:13:42   "that I'm gonna release, and I'm gonna expect

00:13:44   "to have to do a ton of customer support

00:13:46   "or management of it, or I'm creating this thing

00:13:49   "that's gonna then require a lot of my time down the road?"

00:13:52   Those types of considerations,

00:13:55   the only person who's gonna be doing those

00:13:56   like me, I can't rely on someone else to come in and say, "This is what you need

00:14:01   to work on for the next month in the run-up." And so I have to have that discipline myself

00:14:06   to look at it and say, "Yeah, I think I can get this done." The things that I'm

00:14:11   working on for myself are these sort of small improvements to all my apps, that I kind of

00:14:16   have these lists of things, and they're just like, "These small improvements, most

00:14:18   of them are probably like a week's worth of work." And all of them are things that

00:14:23   that I think won't require maintenance in June,

00:14:27   or sort of for the follow-up.

00:14:28   They're very self-contained and neat and tidy.

00:14:30   And that's by choice and intention.

00:14:33   I'm not really the kind of person,

00:14:35   I don't have, it's not like I have a Gantt chart,

00:14:36   like this big organizational thing that I'm like,

00:14:38   okay, well, I'll do this and this,

00:14:40   and this task is dependent on this task,

00:14:43   and so that's not what I'm saying.

00:14:45   And I don't know, some people love Gantt charts.

00:14:48   They don't really work for me

00:14:49   in the way I think about things.

00:14:51   But having that kind of discipline of at least thinking about it consciously and saying,

00:14:55   "Am I realistically going to be done with all these things so that I'm poised and

00:14:59   ready when the new stuff and the new opportunities appear?"

00:15:02   Because ultimately, that's all this comes down to, is there's going to be new opportunities

00:15:06   because there'll be change.

00:15:08   Am I going to be in a position to set myself up to take advantage of those opportunities?

00:15:12   Because that's most of what—being lucky in a lot of these types of arenas where you

00:15:19   look at somebody, it's like, "Oh man," you know, it's like, "They really lucked out,

00:15:22   and that's why their business is a success." It's like, maybe, or they were just ready

00:15:26   and prepared for when the opportunity presented itself, so that they could dive in headfirst.

00:15:32   It's probably more that.

00:15:34   Usually some of both.

00:15:35   A little bit of both. But if you don't have the one, the other one's not going to really

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00:18:47   So I wanted to talk a little bit about,

00:18:50   I think we both kind of agreed

00:18:52   that this is a good time for cleanup

00:18:54   and minor improvements of our apps.

00:18:57   I wanted to go a little bit more into what that is,

00:18:59   what that means. I've been doing a lot of this myself with Overcast recently. In the

00:19:03   last couple of months, I've integrated analytics. I've integrated what used to be called Crashlytics

00:19:09   and is now called Fabric, which is owned by Twitter, that whole thing. Integrated analytics

00:19:13   and crash reporting more deeply into the app. Before, for a while, I was using hockey, then

00:19:18   I was using Apple, built-in stuff, and now I've found Fabric to be a good combo for me.

00:19:24   And the main reason why is that I really wanted to take this time to improve quality.

00:19:29   And so this is a great time to minimize crashes, to go through and fix little bugs like that,

00:19:35   just little bugs, little annoyances to your users, anything that causes crashing or failures.

00:19:41   This is a great time to do that because that's the kind of stuff that generally, whatever's

00:19:44   announced at W2C is probably not going to affect that kind of code.

00:19:48   It's also a good time to pay off any kind of low-level technical debt, as long as it's

00:19:53   not a ton of work and will cause tons of bugs. But any kind of like, you know, if you have

00:19:58   a technical debt like in your sync or data layers, this is a good time to pay that off

00:20:02   if you can. And to do like minor feature experimentation, like if you want to tweak like small changes

00:20:09   to the app, not any kind of big overreaching change or redesign, but if you just want to

00:20:13   tweak small changes, this is a good time to do that as well. It's also a good time to

00:20:18   solicit or investigate customer feedback

00:20:21   about what kinds of things you want to be doing this summer.

00:20:24   So ask your existing customers, or look at your analytics,

00:20:28   or implement analytics of some kind, don't be creepy,

00:20:30   but implement some kind of analytics to say like,

00:20:34   what should I be thinking about this summer?

00:20:36   When all this stuff is announced,

00:20:37   what should I have on my roadmap feature-wise for my app?

00:20:41   What are my customers really asking for?

00:20:43   How is the app actually being used and not being used?

00:20:47   This is a great time for all that stuff,

00:20:49   basically everything that isn't massive code,

00:20:51   design, or business changes.

00:20:53   This is a great time for all those things.

00:20:54   And so me personally, I have, as I mentioned,

00:20:57   integrated Crashlytics and Fabric and Analytics there,

00:21:01   and so I've taken this time to drop my crash rate

00:21:04   to nearly zero, and through the combination

00:21:07   of the last few versions, plus the version

00:21:08   that I just submitted this morning,

00:21:10   just a whole bunch of minor updates

00:21:12   focused on getting the crashes reduced

00:21:15   as low as I possibly can,

00:21:16   just trying to eliminate, like Crashlytics tells you

00:21:19   like a crash free users percentage,

00:21:22   which is kind of cool, it's kind of cool metric,

00:21:23   and it used to be like 99 point something low,

00:21:27   now it's 99.9, and the new version I have in review now

00:21:31   should raise that even higher.

00:21:33   It's just a very satisfying kind of technical debt

00:21:35   payoff period I'm going through here,

00:21:36   where just like, let me just fix as much as I possibly can

00:21:40   that I can fit in this time span.

00:21:43   And then it's also, it's a great time to do any kind of experimentation with other things

00:21:50   that are not your app, that are not like the code of your app. So, you know, I mentioned

00:21:55   experimental, you know, small features or small changes, but this is actually a great

00:22:00   time to step away from your iOS apps and to look at other kinds of, larger kinds of experimentation.

00:22:07   So things like learning a new language, learning a new API, just learning something new that

00:22:13   that will probably not change dramatically in June.

00:22:15   So, you know, other languages, non-Apple platforms,

00:22:18   things like that.

00:22:18   And also just making new apps on different platforms.

00:22:23   So if you've wanted for a long time to make

00:22:26   an Android app or a web app,

00:22:29   maybe arguably even a Mac app,

00:22:31   which I'm kind of been playing with a little bit,

00:22:33   'cause the Mac doesn't change that much usually at WBC,

00:22:35   so maybe a Mac app would also qualify here,

00:22:37   but any kind of app on different platforms,

00:22:40   this is a great time to experiment with that

00:22:42   because that's probably not gonna change much in June,

00:22:45   doesn't really matter, and you kinda have to like

00:22:47   save your iOS juices for then, you know?

00:22:50   And it's also a great time to just enter

00:22:53   an entirely new business if you wanted to like

00:22:56   start a podcast, start a blog, you know,

00:22:58   start selling t-shirts or something.

00:23:00   Like if you wanted to start something new

00:23:03   that is not an app that won't necessarily

00:23:05   take up your entire life, this is a good time

00:23:08   to experiment with that as well.

00:23:09   So basically it's a time for experimentation

00:23:12   of all kinds, as long as it's not going to be a problem come June.

00:23:16   >>

00:23:42   and launching it at a time when things are quieter,

00:23:45   when there's less going on, when in general,

00:23:48   there's not a whole lot of tech news that's come out.

00:23:52   We're kind of in this quiet bit

00:23:55   between the spring announcements

00:23:57   and the summer announcements.

00:23:59   And so if you have something that you have been working on,

00:24:02   there's certainly some advantage to pushing

00:24:04   to make sure that you get it out in the quiet time

00:24:08   that's now, because if you try and do it

00:24:12   over the summer, there's going to be a lot more competition on the news side.

00:24:16   And if you try and do it in the fall, then you're going to have a lot of competition

00:24:21   just on the competing apps side.

00:24:23   There's just a lot of new apps, a lot of big updates.

00:24:26   You know, if you think about things like the featured page in the App Store, in the fall,

00:24:34   it's going to be full of the apps that take advantage of the new stuff.

00:24:38   Like last fall it was like, "Hey, here's all the apps that are updated for 3D Touch,"

00:24:43   or things like that.

00:24:44   Apple tends to push those types of things, but I don't really—can't think of—there's

00:24:49   not a lot of huge, big, sweeping things right now that would push something out.

00:24:53   And so there's certainly an incentive to—if you've been working on something and you

00:24:58   might be able to get it out, this is a pretty good time.

00:25:02   I can tell from launching Activity++ a couple weeks ago that it was easier in some ways

00:25:08   to get attention for something around now.

00:25:11   And if you just think about the volume of tech news, like if you're this kind of person

00:25:15   who keeps up on tech news, it's a quietish time right now because Apple is probably not

00:25:21   going to be announcing much new because they'll save that for June, and a lot of other big

00:25:26   organizations that create tech news, they're in that same kind of cycle that they have

00:25:32   their big events in the summer or around then, and that's when they'll be doing it.

00:25:37   So there's some advantage to doing that too,

00:25:39   like just taking advantage of it as a quiet time

00:25:42   to maybe get a bit more attention for yourself.

00:25:44   - Yeah, totally, you know, 'cause that's,

00:25:46   you know, as you mentioned, like,

00:25:47   there really isn't a lot else going on

00:25:50   for the most part right now.

00:25:51   So if you have something where you don't necessarily

00:25:54   need to wait until W2DC, so if it's something,

00:25:57   if it's a small app or something that is,

00:26:01   that doesn't really rely too heavily on the frameworks

00:26:05   and the platform staying identical.

00:26:08   And that might include things like games.

00:26:10   You know, we don't know anything about games

00:26:11   for the most part, but that might include things like games

00:26:13   where you're not usually using

00:26:15   most of the platform APIs for games.

00:26:18   Usually you're using OpenGL or more likely

00:26:21   some kind of higher level cross-platform game engine

00:26:24   and doing all your custom coding in there,

00:26:26   and you're not really using UIKit directly

00:26:29   for most stuff and things like that.

00:26:30   So games and everything we just said

00:26:33   might be totally invalid.

00:26:34   We really have no idea.

00:26:36   But this is a good time for things that will not likely be strongly affected by WWDC happening.

00:26:42   >> And the last thing I wanted to mention, too, is if you are going to be at WWDC, something

00:26:48   else you should be doing in this time is preparing yourself for it in terms of keeping an eye

00:26:54   and a list and a checklist of the things that you are going to the conference to get answered.

00:27:01   I have a list in my task management system that's just WWDC questions.

00:27:07   And any time between now and WWDC that I encounter something that I'm thinking, "Hey, maybe

00:27:14   this would be a good introductory question to ask an Apple engineer," it just goes

00:27:17   in there.

00:27:18   And I'll just try and keep track of these things.

00:27:21   And a lot of them, it's probably good to say, they don't have to be amazing questions,

00:27:26   like these groundbreaking novel concepts.

00:27:30   of them as icebreakers. It's so much easier to get a conversation going if you are able

00:27:36   to go to a lab at WWDC if you have something like a jumping off point that you can start

00:27:41   from. And so just be thinking about that so that rather than the morning of the Tuesday

00:27:47   of WWDC, you go into the lab and you're like, "Huh, what would I like to know?" It's going

00:27:53   to be a harder thing to think of the things versus now when you're kind of in the thick

00:27:56   of it in your code, running into little issues, running into little gotchas, things that would

00:28:01   be helpful to talk to someone at Apple about. And if it would be relevant, always good to

00:28:08   file a radar about them and have that number with you when you go to WWDC. It just avoids

00:28:14   the dance that you'll end up doing otherwise with an Apple engineer. We're like, "Oh,

00:28:17   have you filed a radar about this?" And they say no, and it's like, "Well, you should

00:28:20   probably do that." It's kind of a conversation killer versus if you can go in and say, "Yes,

00:28:26   I did, here's the number." And then you can continue the conversation from there.

00:28:29   So just a little tip that I've found very helpful for myself to get ready for WWDC every

00:28:34   year.

00:28:35   - Sounds good. And with that, I think we're out of time this week. So thank you everybody

00:28:39   for listening. Good luck with your technical debt and experimental period that we're entering

00:28:44   now. And I hope you listen next week. Thanks a lot for listening, and we'll see you then.

00:28:50   - Bye.

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