0:00:00Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development.
0:00:04I'm Marco Arment. And I'm David Smith. Under the Radar is never longer than 30 minutes,
0:00:08so let's get started. So today we're going to talk a lot about
0:00:12what it's like to launch a new version of your app or a new app. This is
0:00:16launch day, planning launch day, and then what actually happens on launch day.
0:00:20Now David, you recently went through a notable launch of one of your notable
0:00:24products. Do you mind telling us about that? Sure. So yeah, so the part of this
0:00:28idea to do this was I recently launched a big update to my sleep tracker for the Apple
0:00:32Watch sleep++. It's been a while since I'd gone through the process of like, okay, this
0:00:39is like, whenever you like some updates, you just kind of put out without really any desire
0:00:44or goal or need for attention. But every now and then you find yourself in a place that
0:00:48you're like, this is one of those things that if possible, I would really like people to
0:00:54to pay attention to.
0:00:55I think it's worthwhile, I think it's interesting,
0:00:57it's compelling, but how do I get that out?
0:01:01And so for C++, I went through all the steps
0:01:04that we're about to talk about, of trying to understand
0:01:07what is compelling, what is interesting,
0:01:09what is the message about why this is worth
0:01:11paying attention to, and who should I tell?
0:01:13And trying to work that out, and writing a bunch of emails,
0:01:16and preparing blog posts, and eventually putting it out,
0:01:19putting it out in the store, and thankfully,
0:01:22it had a really nice reception.
0:01:23got picked up in a lot of places and had good downloads,
0:01:26and so overall I would say it was a success.
0:01:28And so hopefully we can talk through this process
0:01:31and other people can learn from the mistakes
0:01:34and the lessons we've both had from,
0:01:36we've each probably launched at least several,
0:01:40like dozens of these kind of big updates
0:01:41where you're like, how am I gonna get attention for it?
0:01:44And hopefully it's something to learn in that process.
0:01:47- Yeah, absolutely.
0:01:48I mean, for me, almost every update or launch,
0:01:52it has some degree of underlying stress and preparation
0:01:55and anxiety until it's actually like in people's hands
0:01:58and seemingly not totally broken.
0:02:01But certainly like the big ones,
0:02:04like in the next version of Overcast,
0:02:07I'm planning on calling it version 2.5,
0:02:10'cause I've made a lot of improvements since 2.0
0:02:13and I feel like I kind of half want it to be a big deal.
0:02:16Like it isn't a 3.0,
0:02:17but it is a substantial improvement over 2.0
0:02:20in a number of areas.
0:02:21So that's why I feel like, okay, 2.5, I feel like it deserves that level of PR, if
0:02:28that makes sense. Do you ever do like a 0.5 or you just go, you know?
0:02:31I think I tend to do just, I would just call it the next big number, because the number
0:02:36only sort of matters, and it's just a much clearer message, often, maybe, to just say,
0:02:41like, you know, this is, it's like, if people understand what, if the first number gets
0:02:45bigger, typically that means big, cool stuff. Whereas 0.5, like, unless you realize that
0:02:51that the previous version wasn't 0.4,
0:02:54that wouldn't be as significant.
0:02:56But I definitely have that same thought of it's like,
0:02:58you're trying to weigh when you do an update of like,
0:03:01is this, how notable is this?
0:03:03Because I feel like you only have a certain amount
0:03:06of attention that you can reasonably expect
0:03:09to sort of garner with any update.
0:03:11You know, and so if every single update I did,
0:03:13every minor bug fix, every little change I made to the app,
0:03:17I should have treated it as though it was a big deal,
0:03:20I would very quickly sort of dilute any credence I had
0:03:25with people in the press or with my audience,
0:03:27and you kind of have the boy who cried wolf problem
0:03:30and no one would pay attention.
0:03:31And so I definitely see when you say,
0:03:33it's kind of like half a big deal,
0:03:35you're kind of signaling that and indicating,
0:03:36hey, I know this isn't as this massive important thing,
0:03:40and that's okay, but it's important,
0:03:42so maybe take a look at it.
0:03:44But just being honest about that
0:03:46and finding that balance of how important it is in reality
0:03:49versus how often you can sort of bang on the drum
0:03:54and say, hey, come and look at me.
0:03:56- Yeah, that makes sense.
0:03:57I mean, really, when you're talking about version numbering,
0:03:59I mean, your users will so rarely
0:04:01even see the version number.
0:04:03I mean, they will notice when they launch the app,
0:04:05which has been auto-updated, and it looks different.
0:04:08But they won't notice that, oh, the version number
0:04:12in the store is now a new even number
0:04:14because they're not gonna look at the release notes.
0:04:16Nobody looks at the release notes anymore on iOS.
0:04:19And so it really, it's mostly a signal, in my opinion,
0:04:22the version number and the major versus minor
0:04:24improvement numbers are mostly a signal to the press.
0:04:27It's like you are kind of using the version number
0:04:30to tell the press when it's a big deal.
0:04:33So if you have reached version 4.0 after five years,
0:04:38that's worth somebody paying a little bit
0:04:41of attention to at least.
0:04:42That's worth like, okay, I have this giant email inbox
0:04:46as a press person, I have all these people pitching me
0:04:49what new app updates and what new apps they have, but oh, this app I've heard of for five
0:04:53years just released version 4.0, I want to at least read that and pay attention to that.
0:04:59And you're right, like totally the cried wolf situation happens where, I mean what version
0:05:03is Chrome and Firefox running now? They're in like the 40s and 50s now or something,
0:05:08right? I mean, like, you know, they've decided that that no longer matters, and that's fine,
0:05:13advantages to that too. But I think for indie apps, absolutely, use version numbering and
0:05:21major versus minor as a way to signal to the press when something is important and worth
0:05:28further consideration and coverage.
0:05:30Yeah, because I think, and it's also probably worth saying, in all of your preparations
0:05:35for this kind of marketing, this type of trying to get attention, the most important advice
0:05:42I could ever give to somebody is to try and make sure that you have a very clear and concise
0:05:46story about what's changed, why that's important, that if you can't tell somebody in two or
0:05:55three sentences what's changed, why this would be interesting, if it's a new app, like why
0:06:00this app is new or interesting or is worth paying attention to, you're really going to
0:06:05struggle.
0:06:06And all of these little things is trying to boil the coolness of your update down to something
0:06:12very concise.
0:06:13And so if you can say, "Here is 2.0.
0:06:16It does X, Y, and Z," you're in a much better place than, "Oh, it does 50 new things
0:06:21or 100 new things."
0:06:23That's not really compelling.
0:06:24It needs to be something that's a very clear story.
0:06:28And you may need to structure the changes you make to fit a story.
0:06:32Sometimes I'll look at that and I'll have features that are added into, that are part
0:06:37of the update but aren't really important, and I won't really mention them in my update
0:06:41notes because I find it's better to be able to say, "This update is all about this.
0:06:47Here's the theme of what's going on."
0:06:49Because A, it's easier for someone in the press to write a story about, and B, it's
0:06:53just easier to understand, both to someone in the press or to just a customer.
0:06:57If they go to the app store and they click on the "What's New" section, and it's
0:07:01Like, this is now better because X.
0:07:04The sleep analysis engine can now differentiate between multiple different sleep types and
0:07:11giving you better data.
0:07:13That's a simple, straightforward story.
0:07:15That was most of what my recent C++ update was about.
0:07:18That was the story I was pitching.
0:07:19It included a whole bunch of other fixes and changes and improvements, but that was the
0:07:23story that I was telling, and that makes it simpler.
0:07:25Because you want to end up with something that you'd have someone look at and be like,
0:07:29"Oh, wow, that's cool.
0:07:30I want to download that or I want to explore that more.
0:07:33Or if you're in a press and you've got 50 pitches, what's the thing that's going to
0:07:36hook them and make them want to continue reading your description or your pitch?
0:07:43And this doesn't apply only to 2.0, 3.0 kind of updates.
0:07:46This applies to the entire app.
0:07:47This applies to your 1.0, if not even more so.
0:07:51Because your app—this is kind of like what I was talking about in my NS Conference talk
0:07:54last year about app marketing, where like your app, if you can't boil down why somebody
0:08:00should care about it at all in one or two sentences, it's going to be very hard to
0:08:05get attention and to get press, or at least to get attention that lasts. And you can do
0:08:11it, you know, you can have like an everything text editor that just, you can do everything
0:08:14with this app, you know, or, you know, and everything, some kind of like everything bucket,
0:08:17like oh, you can capture all your data and organize it, you know, like something very
0:08:22vague but you know that it's very hard to stand out from the crowd with that or
0:08:27if you say like you know this is the the iOS audio editor with 300 plugins like
0:08:34okay like that doesn't it doesn't tell as compelling of a story as if you can
0:08:39boil it down to a few specific noteworthy and useful sounding or
0:08:45compelling sounding specific bullet points about like my app does these
0:08:50three things, period. And then version two has these two or three big changes that will
0:08:55help you. And yeah, you're right, one of those changes should not be fixed 60 bugs.
0:09:02No one needs to be announced to that you fixed bugs. You should be fixing bugs and you shouldn't
0:09:08even need to use PR to advertise that you are fixing bugs. You should just fix them.
0:09:17the reason why somebody should care about your new version is not because
0:09:20you fixed more bugs from the previous one. That's kind of an insult to your own
0:09:24product. Fix the bugs, yeah, but also have other reasons that people should
0:09:29care about and kind of downplay the bug fixing if you can. Like summarize it all
0:09:33as one bullet point. Bug fixes and improvements, you know, like I always in
0:09:36my business I always have like, you know, like the top few bullets of my
0:09:41change logs in iOS will always be like, you know, interesting features. Like if I
0:09:45I have to remove something that'll be up top.
0:09:46That's usually not the case.
0:09:48Otherwise it'll be interesting, compelling things
0:09:52in those first few bullets.
0:09:53And then the lower ones, I'll consolidate
0:09:56almost everything else that nobody cares about
0:09:59into a single bullet that says bug fixes
0:10:01and other minor improvements.
0:10:03Because nobody cares that, oh, I increased
0:10:05the artwork size by four pixels.
0:10:07It doesn't matter.
0:10:08- Yeah, and I think this is the kind of thing
0:10:09that it's an important distinction that,
0:10:12I know it took a long time for me to learn as I started making apps, is marketing and
0:10:18PR is a different thing than software engineering and making things.
0:10:25And not necessarily that it's...
0:10:28I still, in all of my marketing materials, strive to be honest and clear and straightforward.
0:10:34But it's not that...
0:10:37I want to tell people things that are going to be attractive and interesting and sell
0:10:44my app to them.
0:10:45I'm selling to them.
0:10:46I want to emphasize the good and downplay the bad, because if I don't, it's not going
0:10:53to be compelling.
0:10:54And your example with bug fixes is a great one there, because while it's true that fixing
0:11:0060 bugs may actually be important and have made the app way, way better and be a really
0:11:04important thing, what you're saying when you say that, like the message that sends to your
0:11:09customers is like, "Here's my app. Now it's less terrible." And that's not compelling.
0:11:17You don't want to tell somebody, "Hey, here's this thing that's less terrible than it used
0:11:21to be." It has to have that positive, exciting, interesting flair to it. It's awesome because
0:11:28of this, and emphasizing things like fixing bugs isn't probably going to be it. It's like
0:11:33You wanna have something that is going to be,
0:11:37have that positive impact on them rather than, yeah,
0:11:39less worse.
0:11:41That's probably, that's a pretty low bar
0:11:44to try and get someone's attention.
0:11:45- Exactly.
0:11:46- So once you have the story, you've come up with
0:11:50what is this compelling feature set,
0:11:52what is this thing, this hook that you're going
0:11:54to give to people, the next thing you have
0:11:57to kind of work through is who are you actually
0:12:00going to tell, it seems?
0:12:02And obviously, you'll talk to your friends and your family,
0:12:05colleagues, your network.
0:12:07But inevitably, to have any kind of big splash,
0:12:10you need to reach out to the press.
0:12:13And these are all kinds of people.
0:12:14They could be from websites, from blogs, podcasts,
0:12:19YouTubers.
0:12:21It could be whatever.
0:12:23YouTubers dwarf our audiences, just for the record.
0:12:25If you can get MKBHD to talk about something,
0:12:27that's so much better than any tech blog you've ever heard of.
0:12:31>> Yeah. And you need to reach out to them. And one thing I always wanted to mention here
0:12:36is it's okay for that to be really, really scary because I've been doing this a long
0:12:42time. I've been an independent developer for almost eight years now, I think, or seven
0:12:46years. And it's still every time I sit down to write an email to someone in the press,
0:12:51many of these people who I know personally now who I'm good friends with and will meet
0:12:56up when we're in the same town and things, it still is scary because whenever you actually
0:13:00have to put virtual pen to ink kind of thing.
0:13:05It's like you have to say, OK, I think this is cool.
0:13:09I hope you do too.
0:13:11And there's a certain vulnerability about that, because if they come back and say, I
0:13:14don't think that's actually very cool or interesting, that's kind of not great.
0:13:19But you have to kind of work past that and understand that, well, you worked on this
0:13:23for a long enough time.
0:13:24You owe it to your app and to yourself to put your best foot forward and to move past
0:13:28that and to say like, "Oh no, these are the people I respect," because if people ever
0:13:33ask me who I should reach out to, it's like, "Well, reach out to the people whose opinions
0:13:38you would respect, and people who, when they recommend apps, you treat that with a fair
0:13:45bit of regard, because presumably there's reasons why you think that, and there's reasons
0:13:50that other people would think that too."
0:13:51Yeah, and it takes a certain degree of getting over the shyness fact that you kind of alluded
0:13:58to.
0:13:59Like a lot of developers, they kind of just want to be Steve Wozniak.
0:14:02Like I'll just make something cool and the world will respect it I guess, but I'm not
0:14:06going to be out there being the showman.
0:14:09Because a lot of developers, that's just not the kind of personality that we often have.
0:14:14And the fact is that that's not enough.
0:14:19enough when it was 1970s whatever and there were no other computers out there and Steve
0:14:25Wozniak was making brilliant things that like a few other people discovered because they
0:14:29were brilliant and there wasn't much else out there. That worked then. But that wouldn't
0:14:33work today in a very very crowded market where if you don't get some kind of recognition
0:14:40to make you stand out from the crowd then no one's ever going to find you. And so you
0:14:45You have to, to some degree, be willing to take on the role of being the show person
0:14:51for your app and developing some kind of quick pitch to be able to brag about it.
0:14:59Not to say like, I'm the greatest person in the world, but I've made this app that's
0:15:03really cool and useful for this short list of reasons or for this use case that you might
0:15:09have.
0:15:10And you have to be able to communicate that clearly and confidently, because if you can't,
0:15:16it's very unlikely anybody else will do it for you these days, because they won't ever
0:15:20see you, they won't ever find you.
0:15:22Yeah, and it's also, I think, worth mentioning here that this is the place that I think you
0:15:27often run into the, like, you look at someone who has been doing this for longer, and you
0:15:33see the size of the audience they have, and you see the sort of the splash that they're
0:15:38able to get. And it's easy to kind of look at that and be like, "Well, that's fine
0:15:42for them, but I'm never going to get there."
0:15:45I've never heard that before.
0:15:47But the reality—and I think back to myself, like many years ago—I'm doing the same
0:15:54things now, but I have a bigger audience for them. But when I launched an app back there,
0:16:00I still wrote a blog post. I would still try and reach out to as much of the press as I
0:16:04as I could, I would do all the same things.
0:16:06And A, that was good practice for getting good at that
0:16:11when there's a smaller attention on it,
0:16:13so you can build the skill.
0:16:17But it's also the understanding that that's just
0:16:19what you have to do to ever get to that point.
0:16:22No one just one day turned around and all of a sudden
0:16:25had this massive audience with a big following
0:16:27that when they put something out got a lot of attention.
0:16:29You build that over time, and the only way
0:16:31you're ever going to get there is to get started.
0:16:34There's no point in saying, well, I may not as well even
0:16:38try because I'm never going to get to where they are.
0:16:41It's like, well, OK, I guess if you don't try,
0:16:43you're definitely never going to get there.
0:16:45But if you want to get there, if you
0:16:46want to have a successful business that
0:16:49gets a lot of attention and lots of downloads,
0:16:52you're going to have to start by doing the things
0:16:55that other people do.
0:16:56And understand that to start with, maybe that'll go slowly.
0:17:00But over time, if what you're making is good,
0:17:03in my experience, it will find its audience,
0:17:05and it will gather its success,
0:17:07and you'll end up in the place of those people
0:17:10that have been doing it for longer.
0:17:13'Cause some of it, there's no shortcut.
0:17:14The only shortcut is experience,
0:17:16and you're just to keep trying and trying and trying again.
0:17:20- Exactly.
0:17:20And also, before we move off the topic of promotion,
0:17:23two quick things that are not to be discounted
0:17:26and that are very important here.
0:17:27Number one, don't forget to promote to non-tech sites
0:17:32that might be relevant to your app.
0:17:33So look around, if your app is not just like
0:17:36how to sort your RSS feeds,
0:17:38like if it's something that is not just appealing
0:17:40to the people who read sites about iOS apps
0:17:43and iPhone news and stuff, like look around and see,
0:17:46you know, are you making an app that is,
0:17:49like you have my recipe book, right?
0:17:51You still maintain that, right?
0:17:52- Yeah, yeah. - Yeah.
0:17:53So like, that's an app for baking and recipes and cooking.
0:17:56like go to blogs that have audiences that are about cooking with recipes and using iPads
0:18:02in the kitchen. Like, you know, something like, you go to relevant places for any non-tech
0:18:08interests and, you know, go to those blogs and everything. Because like, look, every,
0:18:11and this goes for the tech blogs too, these blogs and everything, they want good stuff
0:18:15to post. They, you know, if they're trying to make one to five posts a day or whatever,
0:18:20you know, depending on the site, it could be more than that if it's Rene Ritchie. You
0:18:24You know, it's, man, that guy's a machine.
0:18:26(laughs)
0:18:26You know, you're trying to make, you know,
0:18:28these sites need stuff to write about.
0:18:30They need content.
0:18:31You are doing them a favor by giving them something good,
0:18:34and they are out there looking for something good
0:18:37to write about every single day.
0:18:39So, you know, the demand is there,
0:18:42and the more narrow you can go with the site,
0:18:44the better it will be for your chances
0:18:46of them writing about it, you know,
0:18:47if you have any kind of narrow appeal.
0:18:49The other thing I want to mention is
0:18:51use Apple promotion as well.
0:18:53You know, the App Store has a similar issue of they,
0:18:56every Thursday, they put in a whole new set of apps.
0:18:59And by the way, there's not just one App Store
0:19:01all over the world.
0:19:02Each like category, like each region of the world
0:19:05has its own editorial selections in the App Store usually.
0:19:08And so you have all these different App Store
0:19:11editorial teams looking for apps to feature
0:19:14in all these different categories,
0:19:15and all these different subcategories,
0:19:16all these different special collections,
0:19:18and especially around like new iOS releases,
0:19:21if you're taking advantage of new APIs or anything.
0:19:23Apple wants to feature good apps,
0:19:25especially if they are making Apple's technologies
0:19:28and devices look good.
0:19:29So first of all, that should maybe be a consideration
0:19:32when you're designing your app.
0:19:33But second of all, once you are ready to launch your app,
0:19:37Apple's been telling us for the last couple of events
0:19:40they do for developers now, there's an email address,
0:19:43I believe on the top of my head,
0:19:44I believe it's appstorepromotion@apple.com,
0:19:46is that right, Dina?
0:19:47- That sounds right.
0:19:48- So we'll look it up, we'll confirm,
0:19:49but I believe it's appstorepromotion@apple.com.
0:19:52And they actually ask you to please email them there,
0:19:56you know, maybe four to six weeks ahead
0:19:58of your intended release.
0:20:00And tell them about the app,
0:20:02tell them when you plan to launch,
0:20:03what your marketing plan also includes,
0:20:06so, you know, 'cause they don't wanna feel like,
0:20:07the only people promoting you.
0:20:09But, you know, tell them about your app,
0:20:12and tell them why it's cool, maybe show them,
0:20:13you can send them beta builds,
0:20:15you know, they might not ever use them,
0:20:16but it's worth attaching a two meg email attachment
0:20:18or whatever, like go for it.
0:20:21you know, use that. And look, they might say no, but they're actually asking developers.
0:20:27Well, knowing Apple, they would probably say nothing rather than no. But they're, you know,
0:20:31you're not bothering them, you're not putting them out by sending them an email saying,
0:20:34"Hey, this is what my app is going to do. You know, I'd love it if you consider featuring
0:20:37it or promoting it or whatever." Because they're actually asking us to do that. They're asking
0:20:41developers, "Please email us with your promotions at this email address that includes promotion
0:20:46in the email address. This is exactly what this is for. So use that. And chances are,
0:20:52most of the time, it won't work out. But sometimes it will, and that'll be worth it.
0:20:55Exactly. And I think that, to close up the discussion of the materials you're putting
0:21:00together, I also want to emphasize the importance of what you put in iTunes Connect, because
0:21:04the reality is, like, your description there, your screenshots, especially your screenshots,
0:21:09are the thing that most people, that's all they're really going to know about your app
0:21:14is what they see there.
0:21:15And from Apple's perspective, I imagine
0:21:18that is the first thing they look at.
0:21:19How will this app look in the App Store?
0:21:23And if it doesn't look good, if your screenshots
0:21:25are all messy and ugly and your status bar
0:21:30isn't cleaned up or all those types of things
0:21:32that can make it look compelling.
0:21:33- You have 1% battery life?
0:21:34- Yeah, it's not compelling.
0:21:35You have to make, that is the place
0:21:37that is going to be the longest lived
0:21:40attention and marketing tool for your app
0:21:42is what your screenshots look like,
0:21:43your icon looking good, and your description being clear and concise.
0:21:47And if you do those things, you have a much bigger chance of getting Apple's attention,
0:21:52you know, explain it to the App Store reviewers, look at it like if it's easy for them to understand
0:21:57and get your hook and what's important, why this is cool, it's more likely they're going
0:22:00to forward it on to editorial, and every time your customer comes to the App Store and opens
0:22:04up their page, you want them to have that impact and have that same kind of like, "Oh
0:22:08wow, yep, I want this, this is cool, I need to try this out."
0:22:13Next we're going to talk a little bit about what it's like to launch an app, but before
0:22:16we do that, could you tell me about something awesome Marco?
0:22:19This week's episode is brought to you by Tapstream.
0:22:21You've invested months building your app, fought the good fight with Xcode, and have
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0:24:05OK, so now that you've come up with your compelling narrative, you've put together a pitch, you've
0:24:15sent that out to both the press, to Apple, to your friends, your family, to everybody
0:24:18you know, now it's time to actually launch your app.
0:24:23And this is where it gets both kind of terrifying and exciting, because you get to pick a date.
0:24:28Typically I tend to launch apps at a predetermined date.
0:24:33It's probably not a great idea to say, just release whenever this gets approved, because
0:24:37you have no idea when that is.
0:24:38It could be in the middle of the night, it could be on a weekend, it could be whenever.
0:24:42So when you're submitting it, say hold for developer release.
0:24:47And especially if you have a particular date, that's often helpful with the press.
0:24:51If you say, "Hey, I'm going to launch next Thursday," or on a particular date, so that
0:24:55they can write their piece ahead of time and know when it is.
0:24:57And I imagine most of these publications have schedules they're trying to keep to.
0:25:01And by the way, this also matters for Apple promotion purposes.
0:25:04This is why you see so many releases on Monday and Tuesday, because if you do it earlier
0:25:08in the week, remember I said Apple, as you probably know, App Store features cycle on
0:25:12Thursdays, which means they probably have to decide by like Tuesday or Wednesday what's
0:25:17going to be in them.
0:25:18And so if you can launch on Monday or Tuesday, if there's going to be any other press regarding
0:25:23your app that you might anticipate, or if it's going to make a big splash, or you
0:25:26think it might make a big splash, or you hope it might maybe someday maybe, you know, might
0:25:30if there's any chance of there being a big splash,
0:25:32release it on a Monday or Tuesday.
0:25:34Because then, the Apple editorial teams
0:25:38will have a chance to see any other press about it,
0:25:41notice it, and maybe put it in that week.
0:25:43But if you release on a Thursday,
0:25:44when they just cycle out the apps,
0:25:46it's more likely you're gonna get missed.
0:25:48- Exactly, and once you pick your day,
0:25:50you're gonna put it out there, and then you just hit go.
0:25:54Like, you're gonna need to release it,
0:25:57it, and the actual day is kind of fun. I mean, I don't... it's kind of weird being...
0:26:02I think we're both independents, and so like, for the most part, so much of our
0:26:06work is kind of lonely, for lack of a better word. It's, you know, it's
0:26:11like, we're just... it's just us sitting at our... at a desk doing work, and...
0:26:14Solitary. It's solitary. Solitary is maybe a... That's a nicer word. A less sad word than lonely.
0:26:20Yeah, my dog is usually in the office with me. There you go. But it's... like, launch days
0:26:26are fun, because it's kind of like we have permission to... people interact more. It's
0:26:34more of a community, outside, external event, rather than just being something that we're
0:26:39doing. The development part is just us at a computer working. But launch day, the whole
0:26:46point is to talk to people about what you're doing, and to be out and about, whether that's
0:26:50on social media or in emails with customers or whatever it is, it kind of can be fun and
0:26:56exciting. And obviously you're on the lookout for bugs and issues and problems, but it's
0:27:01also you're on the lookout for people saying, "Wow, this is awesome, I love it," and
0:27:07having that kind of positive affirmation that is super cool.
0:27:10Yeah, and really, hopefully you have a chance to sit back and enjoy it. If your servers
0:27:17are exploding, that's a different story, but that probably won't happen and hopefully you
0:27:21can just sit back and enjoy it because it really is nice to have worked for all that
0:27:24time and then to have anybody, whether it's like, you know, five people or five hundred
0:27:31people, to have anybody tell you like, "Hey, this is really cool," or to see other people
0:27:36talking about the app who don't even know you, to say like, "Hey, look at this cool
0:27:40app that I just launched or that I just found." It's incredibly fulfilling.
0:27:44Yeah, and it's also probably something that I know it was a sort of like a discipline
0:27:49I had to get into, but it was the importance of actually making sure that we do take the
0:27:53time to celebrate these kinds of things.
0:27:55Because I remember like when I used to work in an office job, when we finished a big project
0:28:01or had a big milestone, like, you know, we'd all go out to lunch together and have a big
0:28:06thing.
0:28:07Like, there was an environment where it made sense as the team to go and celebrate.
0:28:13And I know I had to learn that just because I'm an independent, just because there's not
0:28:17a bigger team, that doesn't mean I shouldn't celebrate.
0:28:19So I try very hard in our family.
0:28:22When I do a big launch or something, I talk to my kids about it.
0:28:26Me and my wife will sometimes have a special dinner, we'll do something to try and make
0:28:30it special, to not just discount, "Well, just because I'm by myself, it would be kind of
0:28:36silly for me to just be down in my basement by myself popping open a champagne bottle
0:28:40and being like pouring one glass.
0:28:42that's not very interesting. But doing that with my wife or doing that with my, you know,
0:28:46having a special dinner with my family or something is an important way of kind of building
0:28:52that motive because it helps motivate you to keep going. Like it makes it exciting to
0:28:56get to the end, which is sometimes important. Like the, you know, three weeks before when
0:29:00you're kind of really stuck dredging through problems and bugs to look forward to like,
0:29:05"Hey, I look forward to when I can celebrate this," and, you know, make that an exciting
0:29:09process.
0:29:10- Yeah, that's really cool.
0:29:11It's something that you taught me too a while ago
0:29:13and I've learned from that
0:29:14and have really, really enjoyed it since then.
0:29:16So anyway, we're out of time for today.
0:29:18This is the end, we can celebrate.
0:29:20(laughing)
0:29:21Sorry.
0:29:22Thank you very much for listening everybody
0:29:24and we will see you next week
0:29:25where we will be talking about designing for misuse
0:29:28of services and apps.
0:29:29See you next week.
0:29:30- Bye.
0:29:31[ Silence ]