205: We Got a Raise
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Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development.
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I'm Mark Guarmant.
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And I'm David Smith.
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Under the Radar is never longer than 30 minutes, so let's get started.
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What a two weeks we have had.
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A whole lot has happened in the last two weeks, for sure.
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And it's all, as far as I can tell, for developers like us, it's all good news.
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This is great.
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So we're going to get to the 15% program in a little bit, but first we have to talk
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about these amazing M1 Macs that I'm currently not using because it's upstairs, and I'm
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on my old busted iMac Pro, which until this past week was an amazing computer.
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I think my iMac Pro was my favorite computer I've ever had until this one.
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It's like this amazing computer.
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I always said the same thing.
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My iMac Pro is my favorite computer I ever had, by far the best thing in the lineup for
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my needs that has ever been in the lineup, and it's just this amazing thing.
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And then I got my new MacBook Air with the M1 chip.
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And wow, is it amazing.
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So I have the Air.
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Do you have the Pro or the Mini or what?
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I have the Pro.
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I got a 13-inch MacBook Pro.
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I imagine we all got the same configuration, the 16 gigabyte with one terabyte.
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Yep, that's called the developer configuration.
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Yeah, because you need the terabyte to fit all the Xcode betas.
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Man, these are fantastic machines.
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It is such a game changer that if there were to be an in-person WWDC 2021, which honestly
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I don't think there will be, but if there were to be an in-person WWDC this coming summer,
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I bet half the room would have a new MacBook Air.
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Normally, you see all the 16 and 15-inch MacBook Pros.
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If you look around the room, it's all that class machine.
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And I bet this year, it would be all MacBook Airs and 13-inch MacBook Pros if they were
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to have one, which again, I don't think they will, but that's top of front of the day.
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These machines are incredible.
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They are incredibly fast.
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And mine is literally fanless, so it is literally silent.
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Reviewers is, it has a fan, but it seems like the reviewers are basically having to really
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jump through hoops to even have the fan turn on, let alone be audible.
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It is entirely speculative as to whether the machine I have on my desk actually has a fan
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I have never heard it.
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I have never seen any evidence of a fan.
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There are a couple holes in the back, which I suspect are where the fan would move the
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air, but other than that, it has been completely silent.
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I mean, to be fair, at least for me, the iMac Pro was pretty much silent as well before
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this, but the machine is completely silent.
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But I've been running it ever since I got it as my full-time machine.
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At first, I got it and I was like, "Oh, this would be interesting.
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Maybe I can experiment with this.
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I should get one right away so I can see how my apps work on Apple Silicon."
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And it was like half an hour later, my iMac Pro was just unplugged and sadly put in the
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corner of my office and I'm using this 13-inch screen instead because it is night and day
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faster and better for just doing my actual core main work.
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It's remarkable.
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I love, too, how it runs cool.
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Like, I hate hot, sweaty hands and I always get sweaty hands whenever I'm on a previous
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laptop when I'm making it push itself a little bit.
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And it's so uncomfortable to use a laptop like that.
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And to have these run so cool, I mean, I know this sounds like an Apple commercial, but
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honestly, anybody in the audience, if you haven't had the chance to see or try one of
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these yet, I swear it really is this good.
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This is not just an ad for Apple.
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It really is that much of a difference.
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Well, I think your track record over the last 10 years has made it very clear that if you
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don't like something, you are not shy about communicating your distaste or unease with
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And when you say something is very good, and in many ways, like unequivocally so, it is
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clearly that's the case.
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And what's crazy, too, is how relatively inexpensive they are.
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Yeah, because ultimately these are all still like the low end of Apple's lineup.
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The responsible thing to do if you're not somebody who buys like two computers a year
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is probably to wait until there is a 16-inch and then buy that.
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But if you are impatient and you want the new hotness, these new 13-inch class machines
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are amazing, even though they are the lower end of Apple's lineup.
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And so you have issues like you can't get more than 16 gigs of RAM, you can't get more
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than two terabytes, you can't get bigger than a 13-inch screen on the laptops.
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But if you can fit your needs within that, these are incredible.
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And they make a noticeable difference for developer workflows.
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You basically get at least the performance of the best 16-inch you can buy for most workflows,
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if not better, but in something that has effectively infinite battery life and generates no noise
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and no heat.
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I mean, in a practical example, I think the longest compiling project I have is Widget
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And it takes, on my 10-core iMac Pro, it takes about 55 seconds to do a clean and then a
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full build and archive.
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If I do the same thing on the 13-inch M1 MacBook Pro, it takes 35 seconds, which is significant.
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And obviously, those are not the operations where that difference is really going to impact
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And when I'm actually sitting and working, what is different, though, is that when I
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hit build and run, it is essentially instantaneous for the newly built app to appear in the simulator,
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which is something that was just remarkable.
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I think my biggest surprise in doing this was it got below this point where typically
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when I hit build and run, there's a part of my brain that's suddenly like, "Huh, I wonder
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what's going on on Twitter.
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Hmm, I wonder if I have any email.
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Huh, I wonder what that shiny thing out the window is."
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There's that natural, because I know it's not a long time.
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It's like I'm going to be sitting there for maybe it's five seconds.
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Oh, wow, five seconds of slack time and my brain can't handle it.
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But there was always this period of time that I would be distractible, but it's essentially
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instantaneous now.
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And so I found myself actually being more focused because I hit build and run, and then
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And it's essentially as quickly as I can turn my head to look at the simulator from looking
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You know, my app is up and running.
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And so while at a macro scale, going from 55 seconds to 35 seconds is like a significant
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improvement, I only build and archive maybe a couple times a week.
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But I hit build and run probably 500 times a day.
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And so that going from, that being just that little bit faster has been transformative.
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So that's the part that I think as from a developer perspective.
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And obviously this is one of those things that this machine certainly benefits from
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the fact that Xcode almost is, like Apple knew that Xcode was going to run on this.
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It was M1 compatible on day one.
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It's very much geared and targeted towards this because Apple knows exactly what Xcode
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And you've got to imagine when they're doing their initial benchmarking, when they're doing
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their like, what operations should we streamline, what operations should we make go fast?
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They're going to run Xcode stuff through that.
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They're going to run the Swift compiler on that and just make sure that they're not doing
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something where actually they're always hitting the least ideal path through the ship or something.
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They're always going to be hitting all the sweet paths because it's a well-known operation.
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And that certainly seems to be the case.
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It's that little bit faster and it's just noticeable to a point that, yeah, I feel bad for
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all my other Macs now.
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Yeah, it really is so transformative that it makes all previous Macs instantly feel
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incredibly old and significantly less valuable to you than they were like a week ago.
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Like I haven't opened my 16 inch since I got the new one.
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I wasn't planning on, like when I first ordered the MacBook Air, like you, I thought, well,
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this will be easier than using the DTK through screen sharing to make sure that my app runs
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well in this new environment and everything.
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And I figured I'd use it as like a kind of secondary development machine.
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But I wasn't planning on like instantly replacing my 16 inch with it.
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But now that I got it, it's like, it's, yeah, I'm never going to use that again.
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I might as well just sell it now.
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And I can echo everything you just said.
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I mean, down to like overcast also takes about 55 seconds to build clean on Intel iMac Pro
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and also takes about 39 seconds to build on the MacBook Air.
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I have very similar experience.
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But what you said about avoiding the distracting or the distractable wait periods, that's
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a real thing.
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You know, when you're, every developer knows like when you're really in the flow, when
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you're really like, you know, concentrating hard and doing a bunch of stuff, staying in
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that flow state and anything you can do to keep yourself in that flow state longer or
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to make it harder for you to fall out of it is incredibly valuable.
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Because I mean, I'm sure there are people out there who have incredible work ethics,
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who can just stay diligently concentrated and can work for, you know, a certain performance
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level or a certain concentration level reliably.
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They can like turn it on like a switch.
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All right, 9 a.m., I'm working.
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Turn it on and work.
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And then, you know, at lunchtime, we'll pause it for a minute, eat lunch, then we'll
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come back, turn that switch back on and we'll just be working until exactly 4 p.m. and then
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I can't do that.
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I don't know how many people can do that in reality, but I know I can't.
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I never have been able to work that way.
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My motivation and my productivity come in weird bursts that I can't control when they
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I can't control how long they last.
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I can't make it happen if my brain's like not in that mode.
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And once I'm in a productive state, the only reason I haven't gotten fired from every
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job I ever had because I don't work very well is that once I am in that productive
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state, I might have not had that state for four days straight, but then like on Friday,
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I get in that state and I do a week's worth of work in a morning.
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And then again, then it's another four days before I have that state again.
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But I would average, this is just how I've always worked, I do nothing for long periods,
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I get nothing of meaningful value accomplished, and then all of a sudden I get a ton accomplished
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because I'm in that flow state.
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And when you are in that flow state, anything that anything can knock you out of it, you
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want to get rid of those possibilities.
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And certainly waiting for a long process to happen can do that.
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Anytime you're either fighting your tools, like if you run into a provisioning issue
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and you're like, "Oh God, there goes the rest of the day, I've got to deal with this
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crap," or something really boring you don't want to deal with like taxes or something,
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that can kick you out.
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But what you said about going out to check Twitter or Slack or the web, that's all
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real things that really can knock you out of that state.
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And anything that can avoid that has a lot of value to developers.
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And so if you as a developer are ever looking to rationalize a purchase of the new hot gear
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that everyone's talking about that looks really cool and that you want, if it is meaningfully
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faster to do actual development on, that's all the rationalization you need.
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This is why I always buy every new Apple Watch.
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I've never been that heavy of an Apple Watch user, but the build and run and debug cycle
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on Apple Watch hardware has always been very slow compared to just running an app in a
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simulator or on a phone or whatever.
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But every generation of Apple Watch has actually made that significantly faster.
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And every time they come out, I'm like, "Do I really want to spend another $400, $500
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like on something that I'm mostly only using for development purposes most of the year?"
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Then I get it and then I do a build and run and I'm like, "Oh yeah, that was worth
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it," because it cuts that time down.
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And to have something like the M1 Max cut that time down for nearly everything you do
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is a real game changer.
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The other day I wanted to check some value that was being synced, so I set a breakpoint
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and I hit run and I was running it in the Mac mode because I figured that would build
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the fastest.
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And I literally, running in the Mac mode, you click the play button to run it and it's
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And you're like, it literally just hit the breakpoint so fast, I was like, "Wait,
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did it even launch?"
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It was that fast that I was concerned that something was--it couldn't have possibly
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launched and gotten to this part of the code that quickly.
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It's that fast.
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>> Yeah, I think the only thing that I'm in any way a little sad about is the display
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story around these right now, at least for my particular situation.
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Because I have a 13-inch MacBook Pro, which is fine.
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It's not like it's a tiny screen, but it's certainly not large enough that I want to
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use it myself.
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But now I'm doing this thing where I have a 12.9 iPad Pro with a Luna display sort of
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propped up, actually on the box that the MacBook Pro came in next to me when I'm working.
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And so I have the 13-inch MacBook Pro and a 12.9-inch iPad Pro kind of essentially being
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my external display.
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And for me, that seems to be working pretty well.
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It's just about enough screen real estate for me to kind of get what I need done where
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I can put Xcode, essentially, like full on the main screen.
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And then I have my simulator or documentation or whatever else I need on the side display.
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And it's just about enough.
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But I'm now starting to think, like, oh, now do I need to go and get some kind of external
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display so that I can use this relatively small machine that I'm used to having a giant
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iMac Pro, which has this gorgeous display that's nice and big.
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And I really enjoy having one monitor rather than two.
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It's just a little bit cleaner for me.
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But now that I'm all in on this Apple Silicon lifestyle, I'm starting to think, oh, do I
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need to get an external display or some other kind of situation other than this kind of
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hacked together iPad Pro situation.
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But that's the only thing that is in any way problematic or something that I look forward
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And obviously, this is going to get better.
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At some point, there'll be an iMac.
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At some point, there'll be a 16-inch MacBook Pro with the same performance improvements,
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if not better.
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But for right now, that's the only part of this that I'm a little bit sad about.
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Yeah, I'm with you on that.
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And this is why I keep using my 10-core iMac Pro for my main development even now, even
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though my 13-inch MacBook Air is so much faster.
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But I love a desktop.
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I love this size screen.
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I love this particular screen.
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And I don't want to get my stupid LG screen, bring it to the beach.
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I don't want to go through all that.
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I hate that screen.
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And so, but it is tempting.
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It's a tempting option to just retire my iMac Pro now, get the LG screen here, and just plug
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it into the laptop and just live that lifestyle for a while.
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But no question, my long-term goal here is I want the next iMac.
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Whatever the Apple Silicon-powered iMac is, I'm buying that in all likelihood because
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I love the iMac as a form factor, as a general performance category.
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For my primary computer, I do want more than 16 gigs of RAM and more than two terabytes
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So I don't want to get a Mac Mini in the meantime and then use it for six months and then sell
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I'd rather not do that.
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I'd rather just wait for the iMac.
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But man, is it going to be a long wait, even though it's probably coming out next summer
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or something.
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I think there's a good chance, probably a spring would be the optimistic hopeful part,
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would be something like in March, there'd be another round of Apple Silicon Macs and
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then maybe in June at WWDC, maybe they'll announce another set.
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That would seem like a wonderful opportunity for them to unveil a 16-inch MacBook Pro.
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I feel like it would be a perfect WWDC event would be a great, whether that's streamed
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or in person, but it's capturing that audience just perfectly.
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But other than that, I think it's fine.
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Yeah, WWDC would be the ideal place, PR-wise, to launch the 16-inch because so many developers
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But even more ideal than that would be to launch it in May and then everybody can buy
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it for WWDC.
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I was just going to say, I think the other thing too, I think we should just briefly
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touch on, is running our own apps on Apple Silicon.
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You mentioned it briefly just there with running Overcast on the Mac.
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I think it's something that I was surprised that WidgetSmith runs fine on an Apple Silicon
00:17:53
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Mac and the widgets show up in the notification center and it just works.
00:17:58
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That's kind of amazing and I think it's something that I could see.
00:18:01
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►
It seems like there's generally been a cautious approach to allowing your apps to show up
00:18:07
◼
►
in the Mac App Store, but I would say generally, unless it's an app that doesn't make sense
00:18:11
◼
►
to be there, put it in there.
00:18:14
◼
►
I didn't let pedometer++ show up on the Apple Silicon Mac because there's no step counting
00:18:20
◼
►
capabilities, but any of my apps that can or should work, sure, throw them in there.
00:18:27
◼
►
I think you should because it works well enough and it's just like you're opening up a new
00:18:33
◼
►
audience or a new way for your customers to interact with your app and that's great.
00:18:37
◼
►
Yeah, I've seen a lot of developers who took the approach of opting out by default and
00:18:43
◼
►
then saying, "Oh, I'll investigate it later to see if I need to test it," or whatever.
00:18:48
◼
►
I think that's the wrong approach unless you know for sure that your app doesn't work.
00:18:54
◼
►
So often, the perfect is the enemy of the good and this has been the case for me, certainly.
00:19:00
◼
►
I have still not launched a catalyst app for Overcast even though it's been demanded,
00:19:07
◼
►
not highly demanded, but it's been requested frequently by a small group of people for
00:19:11
◼
►
a long time to have some kind of Mac app because my website sucks.
00:19:16
◼
►
I haven't launched it yet because I'm like, "Well, I want to do a perfect three-column
00:19:20
◼
►
I want to take advantage of as many native Mac controls and native Mac behaviors as possible."
00:19:25
◼
►
That's a huge undertaking and the reality is I'm not there yet.
00:19:30
◼
►
I've barely even started down that path.
00:19:31
◼
►
I keep doing other architectural stuff to build to that point later down the road.
00:19:37
◼
►
But with this, I decided, "Let me just leave it.
00:19:39
◼
►
I'm not going to opt out.
00:19:40
◼
►
Let me leave it in."
00:19:42
◼
►
And sure enough, Overcast works and it's not fantastic.
00:19:48
◼
►
It's not highly polished.
00:19:51
◼
►
It looks like my iPad app in a window and it behaves like my iPad app in a window.
00:19:55
◼
►
And you know what?
00:19:56
◼
►
And I suggest anybody out there who is concerned that you don't want to ship a less than ideal
00:20:02
◼
►
experience to your users, try Overcast on a Mac, on an M1 Mac if you have one, and you'll
00:20:08
◼
►
see how incredibly imperfect it is.
00:20:10
◼
►
And yet, those people who want that, who have wanted that for a long time, are so happy
00:20:18
◼
►
And so I think it's useful to kind of think about like, okay, in this case, everyone knows
00:20:24
◼
►
that running iPhone and iPad apps on a Mac is inherently a kind of imperfect compromised
00:20:32
◼
►
It's a little bit weird.
00:20:33
◼
►
Things don't quite, you know, work or look the way you expect sometimes.
00:20:36
◼
►
But having it there for those customers who want it is way better than not having anything
00:20:43
◼
►
And so I highly suggest, unless you have some significant like deal breaker reason why you
00:20:49
◼
►
can't have your app on the Mac, like it literally doesn't work.
00:20:54
◼
►
Or it's something that like depends so heavily on touch controls, like certain types of game
00:20:59
◼
►
control schemes.
00:21:01
◼
►
In that kind of case, fine, you know.
00:21:02
◼
►
But if you have an app that will function, even if it's not perfect, even if it's a little
00:21:08
◼
►
awkward, even if it's, you know, not the ideal case, if it functions, leave it there, opt
00:21:13
◼
►
into that, because your customers will thank you.
00:21:17
◼
►
And it won't be a massive amount of your customers, it'll barely register.
00:21:19
◼
►
But for those customers, it matters a lot to them.
00:21:23
◼
►
And it's like no sweat off your back.
00:21:24
◼
►
So just opt in, let people use your apps.
00:21:28
◼
►
And if you want to make it better down the road, fine.
00:21:31
◼
►
You know, analytics wise, I posted the other day that the apps running on the M1 Mac so
00:21:35
◼
►
far register themselves as 12.9 inch iPad Pro third gen one terabyte models.
00:21:40
◼
►
I think it's like iPad, you know, eight comma nine or something like that.
00:21:45
◼
►
Like so you can see how many people, that's a very rare iPad model, so you can see how
00:21:48
◼
►
many people are using it.
00:21:50
◼
►
And for me, it's like 500 people so far.
00:21:53
◼
►
- 'Cause you can tell 'cause no one else uses that iPad.
00:21:55
◼
►
So before these, I had like 40 of those iPads in my stats, and now I have like 540.
00:22:00
◼
►
You know, it's something like that.
00:22:01
◼
►
So it's very clear.
00:22:03
◼
►
And you can see then like is it worth justifying, you know, putting more effort into this?
00:22:08
◼
►
Maybe, maybe not.
00:22:09
◼
►
If it isn't, those are 500 very happy people at least.
00:22:12
◼
►
And it's like no sweat off your back.
00:22:15
◼
►
- It's the cheapest way you ever got 500 people to really love your app.
00:22:19
◼
►
- Like you didn't do anything.
00:22:20
◼
►
You just didn't, you literally, it wasn't even that you checked a check box.
00:22:22
◼
►
You just didn't uncheck a check box.
00:22:25
◼
►
- By doing nothing, you've made 500 people very happy.
00:22:28
◼
►
And how often do you get to do that?
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00:23:52
◼
►
So many developers out there, most developers out there, got a raise this past week that
00:23:57
◼
►
will go into effect in a couple of months.
00:24:00
◼
►
I mean, it's kind of amazing.
00:24:02
◼
►
So we're talking about the small business program that Apple just announced, which is
00:24:06
◼
►
at its core is basically for the vast majority of developers on Apple platforms, specifically
00:24:11
◼
►
those who make less than a million dollars in revenue.
00:24:17
◼
►
Apple is cutting their commission from 30% to 15%, which essentially, as best we can
00:24:22
◼
►
tell, seems like for 98% of Apple developers, just got, I think works out to be a 23% raise
00:24:30
◼
►
because of the way that the math works that we're going from getting 70% to getting 85%
00:24:35
◼
►
is actually more than a 15% increase in your revenue.
00:24:38
◼
►
And it's one of those things where I feel like there are many cynical takes you can
00:24:43
◼
►
take to this, that this is a PR move that Apple is taking to try and stave off some
00:24:47
◼
►
antitrust action that they're worried that might happen to them.
00:24:50
◼
►
There's some weird mechanics about the way that this is actually implemented where because
00:24:54
◼
►
it isn't a marginal kind of increase, there's this weird thing if you happen to be making
00:24:57
◼
►
right around a million dollars that you could be worse off as a result of this program or
00:25:03
◼
►
But at its core, when I hear this, it's easy to have those cynical takes.
00:25:08
◼
►
But the reality is 98% of Apple developers just got a raise.
00:25:13
◼
►
And I was like, it takes a lot of cynicism to not be happy about that.
00:25:18
◼
►
The fact that maybe it's coming not necessarily just because Apple wants to be kind to those
00:25:24
◼
►
They're doing it for another reason.
00:25:25
◼
►
They're trying to preserve that other, the revenue they get from those other 2% of developers.
00:25:30
◼
►
But I'm just happy about this.
00:25:32
◼
►
I think it's just overall, the mechanics are a little weird, but the end result is that
00:25:37
◼
►
there's going to be a group of developers who are able to now just make it a bit, it's
00:25:43
◼
►
more likely that they're going to be able to make it in the App Store.
00:25:46
◼
►
But I remember back to my early days where it's like my goal was to go full time as an
00:25:51
◼
►
independent developer.
00:25:52
◼
►
That was my goal.
00:25:53
◼
►
That was what I was trying to do.
00:25:54
◼
►
And I had an amount of money I needed to make each day in the App Store.
00:25:59
◼
►
That once I hit that point, I kind of said to myself, I've made it.
00:26:03
◼
►
I can now do this.
00:26:04
◼
►
I can stop taking on consulting work.
00:26:06
◼
►
I can put that all to the side and I can focus on my App Store.
00:26:09
◼
►
And that number was based on a 30% cut from Apple.
00:26:15
◼
►
And now that number would have been smaller.
00:26:18
◼
►
That number would have been 20% smaller.
00:26:20
◼
►
And it's kind of cool to think that I probably would have been able to go fully independent
00:26:24
◼
►
months, if not years earlier under this new program.
00:26:29
◼
►
And I'm just excited for the new sort of developers for whom that's the case.
00:26:33
◼
►
Because it's like, in some ways you could say, like for Apple, one of the richest companies
00:26:38
◼
►
in the world, it's a relatively small thing that they're doing in the scope of their business.
00:26:43
◼
►
But in the scope of a small independent developer, like the people who listen under the radar,
00:26:48
◼
►
this is potentially a transformative difference.
00:26:50
◼
►
That it's a difference between it being a side hustle and it being able to be your main
00:26:57
◼
►
Or at least speeding up that transition between them.
00:26:59
◼
►
And so I'm just thrilled.
00:27:01
◼
►
I think it's great.
00:27:02
◼
►
I think more like this.
00:27:04
◼
►
And if this is the result of all of the shenanigans and the shouting that Epic and Spotify and
00:27:12
◼
►
all those people are doing at Apple, like if in the end, Epic and Spotify don't come
00:27:17
◼
►
up much better off, but thousands and thousands, if not millions and millions of small independent
00:27:23
◼
►
developers come out ahead, that's amazing.
00:27:25
◼
►
It's like, thank you Epic, thank you Spotify.
00:27:27
◼
►
I'm sorry you didn't get what you want, but we seem to have gotten what we want.
00:27:30
◼
►
I mean, that's how I see it too.
00:27:32
◼
►
You're right, there are lots of cynical takes on this.
00:27:35
◼
►
Apple did probably do this for multiple reasons, and they weren't all out of the goodness of
00:27:40
◼
►
their heart.
00:27:41
◼
►
But I'm sure much of the pressure and much of the reason they did this was because of
00:27:46
◼
►
all this antitrust pressure.
00:27:47
◼
►
And it's definitely a PR move at a lot of levels, because it's good PR to say, "Oh,
00:27:51
◼
►
look at what we're doing to help small businesses," while it's very little skin off Apple's
00:27:56
◼
►
back because of the percentage of the money.
00:27:58
◼
►
They make most of their money from the people who are not being affected by this rate cut.
00:28:02
◼
►
So Apple's not losing much money to do this.
00:28:05
◼
►
So yeah, there are a lot of cynical reasons.
00:28:08
◼
►
But in the fight between the giants, between Apple and people like Epic and Spotify and
00:28:12
◼
►
the governments around the world, these giants are fighting in a way that just benefited
00:28:18
◼
►
all of us quite a lot.
00:28:21
◼
►
And so that's fantastic.
00:28:23
◼
►
And yes, there are cynical reasons why they did this.
00:28:26
◼
►
Yes, it is partly self-serving why they did this.
00:28:32
◼
►
We understand that.
00:28:33
◼
►
We can accept that because nothing got worse for anybody and things just got a lot better
00:28:40
◼
►
for a lot of people.
00:28:42
◼
►
So yes, it is PR.
00:28:43
◼
►
Yes, it is largely self-serving.
00:28:45
◼
►
But it also served us, and that's fantastic.
00:28:49
◼
►
And that's, I think, the best take I think you can have on this.
00:28:53
◼
►
It's easy to get for wanting to be controversial.
00:28:57
◼
►
You can focus on the part that isn't, it's imperfect.
00:29:00
◼
►
And it's clearly structured in such a way that it's sort of the biggest benefit PR-wise
00:29:06
◼
►
for the relatively smallest amount of outlay by Apple.
00:29:09
◼
►
But whatever, I don't care.
00:29:12
◼
►
So many developers just got a big raise in a year that for many of us has been really
00:29:15
◼
►
complicated.
00:29:16
◼
►
Like, great, go for it.
00:29:18
◼
►
This is amazing.
00:29:19
◼
►
And I would just be happy for us as a community and look forward to the stories of the people
00:29:25
◼
►
who are able to make things or to make it as an independent developer as a result of
00:29:30
◼
►
And I look forward to those stories that I'm sure will happen and come to us next year.
00:29:33
◼
►
And they'll happen sooner and in more numbers now.
00:29:35
◼
►
Yeah, exactly.
00:29:36
◼
►
Thanks for listening, everybody.
00:29:37
◼
►
And we'll talk to you in two weeks.
00:29:40
◼
►
[BLANK_AUDIO]