Under the Radar

205: We Got a Raise


00:00:00   Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development.

00:00:04   I'm Mark Guarmant.

00:00:05   And I'm David Smith.

00:00:06   Under the Radar is never longer than 30 minutes, so let's get started.

00:00:10   What a two weeks we have had.

00:00:12   Yes.

00:00:13   A whole lot has happened in the last two weeks, for sure.

00:00:17   And it's all, as far as I can tell, for developers like us, it's all good news.

00:00:21   This is great.

00:00:23   So we're going to get to the 15% program in a little bit, but first we have to talk

00:00:29   about these amazing M1 Macs that I'm currently not using because it's upstairs, and I'm

00:00:37   on my old busted iMac Pro, which until this past week was an amazing computer.

00:00:45   I think my iMac Pro was my favorite computer I've ever had until this one.

00:00:51   Me too.

00:00:52   It's like this amazing computer.

00:00:54   I always said the same thing.

00:00:56   My iMac Pro is my favorite computer I ever had, by far the best thing in the lineup for

00:01:00   my needs that has ever been in the lineup, and it's just this amazing thing.

00:01:06   And then I got my new MacBook Air with the M1 chip.

00:01:09   And wow, is it amazing.

00:01:14   So I have the Air.

00:01:15   Do you have the Pro or the Mini or what?

00:01:17   I have the Pro.

00:01:18   I got a 13-inch MacBook Pro.

00:01:21   I imagine we all got the same configuration, the 16 gigabyte with one terabyte.

00:01:25   Yep, that's called the developer configuration.

00:01:29   Yeah, because you need the terabyte to fit all the Xcode betas.

00:01:34   Man, these are fantastic machines.

00:01:37   It is such a game changer that if there were to be an in-person WWDC 2021, which honestly

00:01:46   I don't think there will be, but if there were to be an in-person WWDC this coming summer,

00:01:50   I bet half the room would have a new MacBook Air.

00:01:55   Normally, you see all the 16 and 15-inch MacBook Pros.

00:01:59   If you look around the room, it's all that class machine.

00:02:03   And I bet this year, it would be all MacBook Airs and 13-inch MacBook Pros if they were

00:02:09   to have one, which again, I don't think they will, but that's top of front of the day.

00:02:13   These machines are incredible.

00:02:14   They are incredibly fast.

00:02:17   And mine is literally fanless, so it is literally silent.

00:02:21   Reviewers is, it has a fan, but it seems like the reviewers are basically having to really

00:02:27   jump through hoops to even have the fan turn on, let alone be audible.

00:02:33   It is entirely speculative as to whether the machine I have on my desk actually has a fan

00:02:37   in it.

00:02:38   I have never heard it.

00:02:39   I have never seen any evidence of a fan.

00:02:40   There are a couple holes in the back, which I suspect are where the fan would move the

00:02:45   air, but other than that, it has been completely silent.

00:02:47   I mean, to be fair, at least for me, the iMac Pro was pretty much silent as well before

00:02:53   this, but the machine is completely silent.

00:02:58   But I've been running it ever since I got it as my full-time machine.

00:03:02   At first, I got it and I was like, "Oh, this would be interesting.

00:03:04   Maybe I can experiment with this.

00:03:07   I should get one right away so I can see how my apps work on Apple Silicon."

00:03:12   And it was like half an hour later, my iMac Pro was just unplugged and sadly put in the

00:03:16   corner of my office and I'm using this 13-inch screen instead because it is night and day

00:03:22   faster and better for just doing my actual core main work.

00:03:26   It's remarkable.

00:03:27   I love, too, how it runs cool.

00:03:30   Like, I hate hot, sweaty hands and I always get sweaty hands whenever I'm on a previous

00:03:35   laptop when I'm making it push itself a little bit.

00:03:38   And it's so uncomfortable to use a laptop like that.

00:03:41   And to have these run so cool, I mean, I know this sounds like an Apple commercial, but

00:03:45   honestly, anybody in the audience, if you haven't had the chance to see or try one of

00:03:51   these yet, I swear it really is this good.

00:03:56   This is not just an ad for Apple.

00:03:58   It really is that much of a difference.

00:04:00   Well, I think your track record over the last 10 years has made it very clear that if you

00:04:04   don't like something, you are not shy about communicating your distaste or unease with

00:04:11   something.

00:04:12   And when you say something is very good, and in many ways, like unequivocally so, it is

00:04:16   clearly that's the case.

00:04:19   And what's crazy, too, is how relatively inexpensive they are.

00:04:23   Yeah, because ultimately these are all still like the low end of Apple's lineup.

00:04:28   The responsible thing to do if you're not somebody who buys like two computers a year

00:04:32   is probably to wait until there is a 16-inch and then buy that.

00:04:37   But if you are impatient and you want the new hotness, these new 13-inch class machines

00:04:43   are amazing, even though they are the lower end of Apple's lineup.

00:04:47   And so you have issues like you can't get more than 16 gigs of RAM, you can't get more

00:04:52   than two terabytes, you can't get bigger than a 13-inch screen on the laptops.

00:04:56   But if you can fit your needs within that, these are incredible.

00:05:02   And they make a noticeable difference for developer workflows.

00:05:07   You basically get at least the performance of the best 16-inch you can buy for most workflows,

00:05:14   if not better, but in something that has effectively infinite battery life and generates no noise

00:05:20   and no heat.

00:05:21   Yeah.

00:05:22   I mean, in a practical example, I think the longest compiling project I have is Widget

00:05:27   Smith.

00:05:28   And it takes, on my 10-core iMac Pro, it takes about 55 seconds to do a clean and then a

00:05:37   full build and archive.

00:05:38   If I do the same thing on the 13-inch M1 MacBook Pro, it takes 35 seconds, which is significant.

00:05:49   And obviously, those are not the operations where that difference is really going to impact

00:05:54   your day.

00:05:55   And when I'm actually sitting and working, what is different, though, is that when I

00:06:00   hit build and run, it is essentially instantaneous for the newly built app to appear in the simulator,

00:06:09   which is something that was just remarkable.

00:06:13   I think my biggest surprise in doing this was it got below this point where typically

00:06:18   when I hit build and run, there's a part of my brain that's suddenly like, "Huh, I wonder

00:06:22   what's going on on Twitter.

00:06:23   Hmm, I wonder if I have any email.

00:06:25   Huh, I wonder what that shiny thing out the window is."

00:06:28   There's that natural, because I know it's not a long time.

00:06:31   It's like I'm going to be sitting there for maybe it's five seconds.

00:06:35   Oh, wow, five seconds of slack time and my brain can't handle it.

00:06:39   But there was always this period of time that I would be distractible, but it's essentially

00:06:44   instantaneous now.

00:06:46   And so I found myself actually being more focused because I hit build and run, and then

00:06:50   it's there.

00:06:51   And it's essentially as quickly as I can turn my head to look at the simulator from looking

00:06:55   at Xcode.

00:06:56   You know, my app is up and running.

00:06:59   And so while at a macro scale, going from 55 seconds to 35 seconds is like a significant

00:07:04   improvement, I only build and archive maybe a couple times a week.

00:07:09   But I hit build and run probably 500 times a day.

00:07:14   And so that going from, that being just that little bit faster has been transformative.

00:07:21   So that's the part that I think as from a developer perspective.

00:07:25   And obviously this is one of those things that this machine certainly benefits from

00:07:29   the fact that Xcode almost is, like Apple knew that Xcode was going to run on this.

00:07:37   It was M1 compatible on day one.

00:07:40   It's very much geared and targeted towards this because Apple knows exactly what Xcode

00:07:46   needs.

00:07:47   And you've got to imagine when they're doing their initial benchmarking, when they're doing

00:07:50   their like, what operations should we streamline, what operations should we make go fast?

00:07:57   They're going to run Xcode stuff through that.

00:07:59   They're going to run the Swift compiler on that and just make sure that they're not doing

00:08:03   something where actually they're always hitting the least ideal path through the ship or something.

00:08:09   They're always going to be hitting all the sweet paths because it's a well-known operation.

00:08:15   And that certainly seems to be the case.

00:08:17   It's that little bit faster and it's just noticeable to a point that, yeah, I feel bad for

00:08:22   all my other Macs now.

00:08:24   Yeah, it really is so transformative that it makes all previous Macs instantly feel

00:08:31   incredibly old and significantly less valuable to you than they were like a week ago.

00:08:36   Like I haven't opened my 16 inch since I got the new one.

00:08:41   I wasn't planning on, like when I first ordered the MacBook Air, like you, I thought, well,

00:08:46   this will be easier than using the DTK through screen sharing to make sure that my app runs

00:08:51   well in this new environment and everything.

00:08:53   And I figured I'd use it as like a kind of secondary development machine.

00:08:58   But I wasn't planning on like instantly replacing my 16 inch with it.

00:09:03   But now that I got it, it's like, it's, yeah, I'm never going to use that again.

00:09:06   I might as well just sell it now.

00:09:09   And I can echo everything you just said.

00:09:13   I mean, down to like overcast also takes about 55 seconds to build clean on Intel iMac Pro

00:09:20   and also takes about 39 seconds to build on the MacBook Air.

00:09:26   I have very similar experience.

00:09:28   But what you said about avoiding the distracting or the distractable wait periods, that's

00:09:35   a real thing.

00:09:36   You know, when you're, every developer knows like when you're really in the flow, when

00:09:39   you're really like, you know, concentrating hard and doing a bunch of stuff, staying in

00:09:44   that flow state and anything you can do to keep yourself in that flow state longer or

00:09:49   to make it harder for you to fall out of it is incredibly valuable.

00:09:55   Because I mean, I'm sure there are people out there who have incredible work ethics,

00:10:00   who can just stay diligently concentrated and can work for, you know, a certain performance

00:10:06   level or a certain concentration level reliably.

00:10:08   They can like turn it on like a switch.

00:10:10   All right, 9 a.m., I'm working.

00:10:12   Turn it on and work.

00:10:13   And then, you know, at lunchtime, we'll pause it for a minute, eat lunch, then we'll

00:10:16   come back, turn that switch back on and we'll just be working until exactly 4 p.m. and then

00:10:20   we'll stop.

00:10:22   I can't do that.

00:10:23   I don't know how many people can do that in reality, but I know I can't.

00:10:26   I never have been able to work that way.

00:10:29   My motivation and my productivity come in weird bursts that I can't control when they

00:10:36   happen.

00:10:37   I can't control how long they last.

00:10:38   I can't make it happen if my brain's like not in that mode.

00:10:42   And once I'm in a productive state, the only reason I haven't gotten fired from every

00:10:46   job I ever had because I don't work very well is that once I am in that productive

00:10:51   state, I might have not had that state for four days straight, but then like on Friday,

00:10:57   I get in that state and I do a week's worth of work in a morning.

00:11:02   And then again, then it's another four days before I have that state again.

00:11:06   But I would average, this is just how I've always worked, I do nothing for long periods,

00:11:12   I get nothing of meaningful value accomplished, and then all of a sudden I get a ton accomplished

00:11:18   because I'm in that flow state.

00:11:20   And when you are in that flow state, anything that anything can knock you out of it, you

00:11:24   want to get rid of those possibilities.

00:11:26   And certainly waiting for a long process to happen can do that.

00:11:30   Anytime you're either fighting your tools, like if you run into a provisioning issue

00:11:34   and you're like, "Oh God, there goes the rest of the day, I've got to deal with this

00:11:37   crap," or something really boring you don't want to deal with like taxes or something,

00:11:42   that can kick you out.

00:11:43   But what you said about going out to check Twitter or Slack or the web, that's all

00:11:49   real things that really can knock you out of that state.

00:11:53   And anything that can avoid that has a lot of value to developers.

00:11:56   And so if you as a developer are ever looking to rationalize a purchase of the new hot gear

00:12:04   that everyone's talking about that looks really cool and that you want, if it is meaningfully

00:12:08   faster to do actual development on, that's all the rationalization you need.

00:12:14   This is why I always buy every new Apple Watch.

00:12:17   I've never been that heavy of an Apple Watch user, but the build and run and debug cycle

00:12:24   on Apple Watch hardware has always been very slow compared to just running an app in a

00:12:29   simulator or on a phone or whatever.

00:12:32   But every generation of Apple Watch has actually made that significantly faster.

00:12:38   And every time they come out, I'm like, "Do I really want to spend another $400, $500

00:12:43   like on something that I'm mostly only using for development purposes most of the year?"

00:12:48   Then I get it and then I do a build and run and I'm like, "Oh yeah, that was worth

00:12:52   it," because it cuts that time down.

00:12:54   And to have something like the M1 Max cut that time down for nearly everything you do

00:13:01   is a real game changer.

00:13:04   The other day I wanted to check some value that was being synced, so I set a breakpoint

00:13:10   and I hit run and I was running it in the Mac mode because I figured that would build

00:13:15   the fastest.

00:13:16   And I literally, running in the Mac mode, you click the play button to run it and it's

00:13:23   just there.

00:13:24   And you're like, it literally just hit the breakpoint so fast, I was like, "Wait,

00:13:28   did it even launch?"

00:13:30   It was that fast that I was concerned that something was--it couldn't have possibly

00:13:35   launched and gotten to this part of the code that quickly.

00:13:39   And it had.

00:13:40   It's that fast.

00:13:42   >> Yeah, I think the only thing that I'm in any way a little sad about is the display

00:13:48   story around these right now, at least for my particular situation.

00:13:52   Because I have a 13-inch MacBook Pro, which is fine.

00:13:55   It's not like it's a tiny screen, but it's certainly not large enough that I want to

00:13:59   use it myself.

00:14:00   But now I'm doing this thing where I have a 12.9 iPad Pro with a Luna display sort of

00:14:08   propped up, actually on the box that the MacBook Pro came in next to me when I'm working.

00:14:14   And so I have the 13-inch MacBook Pro and a 12.9-inch iPad Pro kind of essentially being

00:14:23   my external display.

00:14:25   And for me, that seems to be working pretty well.

00:14:28   It's just about enough screen real estate for me to kind of get what I need done where

00:14:32   I can put Xcode, essentially, like full on the main screen.

00:14:39   And then I have my simulator or documentation or whatever else I need on the side display.

00:14:42   And it's just about enough.

00:14:44   But I'm now starting to think, like, oh, now do I need to go and get some kind of external

00:14:49   display so that I can use this relatively small machine that I'm used to having a giant

00:14:57   iMac Pro, which has this gorgeous display that's nice and big.

00:15:00   And I really enjoy having one monitor rather than two.

00:15:03   It's just a little bit cleaner for me.

00:15:05   But now that I'm all in on this Apple Silicon lifestyle, I'm starting to think, oh, do I

00:15:11   need to get an external display or some other kind of situation other than this kind of

00:15:16   hacked together iPad Pro situation.

00:15:19   But that's the only thing that is in any way problematic or something that I look forward

00:15:23   to.

00:15:24   And obviously, this is going to get better.

00:15:25   At some point, there'll be an iMac.

00:15:26   At some point, there'll be a 16-inch MacBook Pro with the same performance improvements,

00:15:31   if not better.

00:15:32   But for right now, that's the only part of this that I'm a little bit sad about.

00:15:36   Yeah, I'm with you on that.

00:15:38   And this is why I keep using my 10-core iMac Pro for my main development even now, even

00:15:43   though my 13-inch MacBook Air is so much faster.

00:15:47   But I love a desktop.

00:15:49   I love this size screen.

00:15:50   I love this particular screen.

00:15:53   And I don't want to get my stupid LG screen, bring it to the beach.

00:15:59   I don't want to go through all that.

00:16:01   I hate that screen.

00:16:03   And so, but it is tempting.

00:16:05   It's a tempting option to just retire my iMac Pro now, get the LG screen here, and just plug

00:16:11   it into the laptop and just live that lifestyle for a while.

00:16:14   But no question, my long-term goal here is I want the next iMac.

00:16:19   Whatever the Apple Silicon-powered iMac is, I'm buying that in all likelihood because

00:16:25   I love the iMac as a form factor, as a general performance category.

00:16:31   For my primary computer, I do want more than 16 gigs of RAM and more than two terabytes

00:16:34   of storage.

00:16:35   So I don't want to get a Mac Mini in the meantime and then use it for six months and then sell

00:16:40   it.

00:16:41   I'd rather not do that.

00:16:42   I'd rather just wait for the iMac.

00:16:44   But man, is it going to be a long wait, even though it's probably coming out next summer

00:16:48   or something.

00:16:49   I think there's a good chance, probably a spring would be the optimistic hopeful part,

00:16:56   would be something like in March, there'd be another round of Apple Silicon Macs and

00:17:01   then maybe in June at WWDC, maybe they'll announce another set.

00:17:05   That would seem like a wonderful opportunity for them to unveil a 16-inch MacBook Pro.

00:17:10   I feel like it would be a perfect WWDC event would be a great, whether that's streamed

00:17:15   or in person, but it's capturing that audience just perfectly.

00:17:21   But other than that, I think it's fine.

00:17:23   Yeah, WWDC would be the ideal place, PR-wise, to launch the 16-inch because so many developers

00:17:30   use that.

00:17:31   But even more ideal than that would be to launch it in May and then everybody can buy

00:17:36   it for WWDC.

00:17:37   I was just going to say, I think the other thing too, I think we should just briefly

00:17:41   touch on, is running our own apps on Apple Silicon.

00:17:45   You mentioned it briefly just there with running Overcast on the Mac.

00:17:48   I think it's something that I was surprised that WidgetSmith runs fine on an Apple Silicon

00:17:53   Mac and the widgets show up in the notification center and it just works.

00:17:58   That's kind of amazing and I think it's something that I could see.

00:18:01   It seems like there's generally been a cautious approach to allowing your apps to show up

00:18:07   in the Mac App Store, but I would say generally, unless it's an app that doesn't make sense

00:18:11   to be there, put it in there.

00:18:13   Go for it.

00:18:14   I didn't let pedometer++ show up on the Apple Silicon Mac because there's no step counting

00:18:20   capabilities, but any of my apps that can or should work, sure, throw them in there.

00:18:27   I think you should because it works well enough and it's just like you're opening up a new

00:18:33   audience or a new way for your customers to interact with your app and that's great.

00:18:37   Yeah, I've seen a lot of developers who took the approach of opting out by default and

00:18:43   then saying, "Oh, I'll investigate it later to see if I need to test it," or whatever.

00:18:48   I think that's the wrong approach unless you know for sure that your app doesn't work.

00:18:54   So often, the perfect is the enemy of the good and this has been the case for me, certainly.

00:19:00   I have still not launched a catalyst app for Overcast even though it's been demanded,

00:19:07   not highly demanded, but it's been requested frequently by a small group of people for

00:19:11   a long time to have some kind of Mac app because my website sucks.

00:19:16   I haven't launched it yet because I'm like, "Well, I want to do a perfect three-column

00:19:19   layout.

00:19:20   I want to take advantage of as many native Mac controls and native Mac behaviors as possible."

00:19:25   That's a huge undertaking and the reality is I'm not there yet.

00:19:30   I've barely even started down that path.

00:19:31   I keep doing other architectural stuff to build to that point later down the road.

00:19:37   But with this, I decided, "Let me just leave it.

00:19:39   I'm not going to opt out.

00:19:40   Let me leave it in."

00:19:42   And sure enough, Overcast works and it's not fantastic.

00:19:48   It's not highly polished.

00:19:51   It looks like my iPad app in a window and it behaves like my iPad app in a window.

00:19:55   And you know what?

00:19:56   And I suggest anybody out there who is concerned that you don't want to ship a less than ideal

00:20:02   experience to your users, try Overcast on a Mac, on an M1 Mac if you have one, and you'll

00:20:08   see how incredibly imperfect it is.

00:20:10   And yet, those people who want that, who have wanted that for a long time, are so happy

00:20:17   with this.

00:20:18   And so I think it's useful to kind of think about like, okay, in this case, everyone knows

00:20:24   that running iPhone and iPad apps on a Mac is inherently a kind of imperfect compromised

00:20:31   experience.

00:20:32   It's a little bit weird.

00:20:33   Things don't quite, you know, work or look the way you expect sometimes.

00:20:36   But having it there for those customers who want it is way better than not having anything

00:20:42   at all.

00:20:43   And so I highly suggest, unless you have some significant like deal breaker reason why you

00:20:49   can't have your app on the Mac, like it literally doesn't work.

00:20:54   Or it's something that like depends so heavily on touch controls, like certain types of game

00:20:59   control schemes.

00:21:01   In that kind of case, fine, you know.

00:21:02   But if you have an app that will function, even if it's not perfect, even if it's a little

00:21:08   awkward, even if it's, you know, not the ideal case, if it functions, leave it there, opt

00:21:13   into that, because your customers will thank you.

00:21:17   And it won't be a massive amount of your customers, it'll barely register.

00:21:19   But for those customers, it matters a lot to them.

00:21:23   And it's like no sweat off your back.

00:21:24   So just opt in, let people use your apps.

00:21:28   And if you want to make it better down the road, fine.

00:21:31   You know, analytics wise, I posted the other day that the apps running on the M1 Mac so

00:21:35   far register themselves as 12.9 inch iPad Pro third gen one terabyte models.

00:21:40   I think it's like iPad, you know, eight comma nine or something like that.

00:21:45   Like so you can see how many people, that's a very rare iPad model, so you can see how

00:21:48   many people are using it.

00:21:50   And for me, it's like 500 people so far.

00:21:52   - Sure.

00:21:53   - 'Cause you can tell 'cause no one else uses that iPad.

00:21:55   So before these, I had like 40 of those iPads in my stats, and now I have like 540.

00:22:00   You know, it's something like that.

00:22:01   So it's very clear.

00:22:03   And you can see then like is it worth justifying, you know, putting more effort into this?

00:22:08   Maybe, maybe not.

00:22:09   If it isn't, those are 500 very happy people at least.

00:22:12   And it's like no sweat off your back.

00:22:15   - It's the cheapest way you ever got 500 people to really love your app.

00:22:18   - Exactly.

00:22:19   - Like you didn't do anything.

00:22:20   You just didn't, you literally, it wasn't even that you checked a check box.

00:22:22   You just didn't uncheck a check box.

00:22:24   - Yes.

00:22:25   - By doing nothing, you've made 500 people very happy.

00:22:28   And how often do you get to do that?

00:22:30   - Exactly.

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00:23:52   So many developers out there, most developers out there, got a raise this past week that

00:23:57   will go into effect in a couple of months.

00:23:59   Yeah.

00:24:00   I mean, it's kind of amazing.

00:24:02   So we're talking about the small business program that Apple just announced, which is

00:24:06   at its core is basically for the vast majority of developers on Apple platforms, specifically

00:24:11   those who make less than a million dollars in revenue.

00:24:17   Apple is cutting their commission from 30% to 15%, which essentially, as best we can

00:24:22   tell, seems like for 98% of Apple developers, just got, I think works out to be a 23% raise

00:24:30   because of the way that the math works that we're going from getting 70% to getting 85%

00:24:35   is actually more than a 15% increase in your revenue.

00:24:38   And it's one of those things where I feel like there are many cynical takes you can

00:24:43   take to this, that this is a PR move that Apple is taking to try and stave off some

00:24:47   antitrust action that they're worried that might happen to them.

00:24:50   There's some weird mechanics about the way that this is actually implemented where because

00:24:54   it isn't a marginal kind of increase, there's this weird thing if you happen to be making

00:24:57   right around a million dollars that you could be worse off as a result of this program or

00:25:02   whatever.

00:25:03   But at its core, when I hear this, it's easy to have those cynical takes.

00:25:08   But the reality is 98% of Apple developers just got a raise.

00:25:13   And I was like, it takes a lot of cynicism to not be happy about that.

00:25:18   The fact that maybe it's coming not necessarily just because Apple wants to be kind to those

00:25:23   developers.

00:25:24   They're doing it for another reason.

00:25:25   They're trying to preserve that other, the revenue they get from those other 2% of developers.

00:25:30   But I'm just happy about this.

00:25:32   I think it's just overall, the mechanics are a little weird, but the end result is that

00:25:37   there's going to be a group of developers who are able to now just make it a bit, it's

00:25:43   more likely that they're going to be able to make it in the App Store.

00:25:46   But I remember back to my early days where it's like my goal was to go full time as an

00:25:51   independent developer.

00:25:52   That was my goal.

00:25:53   That was what I was trying to do.

00:25:54   And I had an amount of money I needed to make each day in the App Store.

00:25:59   That once I hit that point, I kind of said to myself, I've made it.

00:26:03   I can now do this.

00:26:04   I can stop taking on consulting work.

00:26:06   I can put that all to the side and I can focus on my App Store.

00:26:09   And that number was based on a 30% cut from Apple.

00:26:15   And now that number would have been smaller.

00:26:18   That number would have been 20% smaller.

00:26:20   And it's kind of cool to think that I probably would have been able to go fully independent

00:26:24   months, if not years earlier under this new program.

00:26:29   And I'm just excited for the new sort of developers for whom that's the case.

00:26:33   Because it's like, in some ways you could say, like for Apple, one of the richest companies

00:26:38   in the world, it's a relatively small thing that they're doing in the scope of their business.

00:26:43   But in the scope of a small independent developer, like the people who listen under the radar,

00:26:48   this is potentially a transformative difference.

00:26:50   That it's a difference between it being a side hustle and it being able to be your main

00:26:56   thing.

00:26:57   Or at least speeding up that transition between them.

00:26:59   And so I'm just thrilled.

00:27:01   I think it's great.

00:27:02   I think more like this.

00:27:04   And if this is the result of all of the shenanigans and the shouting that Epic and Spotify and

00:27:12   all those people are doing at Apple, like if in the end, Epic and Spotify don't come

00:27:17   up much better off, but thousands and thousands, if not millions and millions of small independent

00:27:23   developers come out ahead, that's amazing.

00:27:25   It's like, thank you Epic, thank you Spotify.

00:27:27   I'm sorry you didn't get what you want, but we seem to have gotten what we want.

00:27:30   I mean, that's how I see it too.

00:27:32   You're right, there are lots of cynical takes on this.

00:27:35   Apple did probably do this for multiple reasons, and they weren't all out of the goodness of

00:27:40   their heart.

00:27:41   But I'm sure much of the pressure and much of the reason they did this was because of

00:27:46   all this antitrust pressure.

00:27:47   And it's definitely a PR move at a lot of levels, because it's good PR to say, "Oh,

00:27:51   look at what we're doing to help small businesses," while it's very little skin off Apple's

00:27:56   back because of the percentage of the money.

00:27:58   They make most of their money from the people who are not being affected by this rate cut.

00:28:02   So Apple's not losing much money to do this.

00:28:05   So yeah, there are a lot of cynical reasons.

00:28:08   But in the fight between the giants, between Apple and people like Epic and Spotify and

00:28:12   the governments around the world, these giants are fighting in a way that just benefited

00:28:18   all of us quite a lot.

00:28:21   And so that's fantastic.

00:28:23   And yes, there are cynical reasons why they did this.

00:28:26   Yes, it is partly self-serving why they did this.

00:28:30   Fine.

00:28:32   We understand that.

00:28:33   We can accept that because nothing got worse for anybody and things just got a lot better

00:28:40   for a lot of people.

00:28:42   So yes, it is PR.

00:28:43   Yes, it is largely self-serving.

00:28:45   But it also served us, and that's fantastic.

00:28:48   Yeah.

00:28:49   And that's, I think, the best take I think you can have on this.

00:28:53   It's easy to get for wanting to be controversial.

00:28:57   You can focus on the part that isn't, it's imperfect.

00:29:00   And it's clearly structured in such a way that it's sort of the biggest benefit PR-wise

00:29:06   for the relatively smallest amount of outlay by Apple.

00:29:09   But whatever, I don't care.

00:29:12   So many developers just got a big raise in a year that for many of us has been really

00:29:15   complicated.

00:29:16   Like, great, go for it.

00:29:18   This is amazing.

00:29:19   And I would just be happy for us as a community and look forward to the stories of the people

00:29:25   who are able to make things or to make it as an independent developer as a result of

00:29:29   this.

00:29:30   And I look forward to those stories that I'm sure will happen and come to us next year.

00:29:33   And they'll happen sooner and in more numbers now.

00:29:35   Yeah, exactly.

00:29:36   Thanks for listening, everybody.

00:29:37   And we'll talk to you in two weeks.

00:29:39   Bye.

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