Under the Radar

00:00:00 ◼   ► Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development.

00:00:04 ◼   ► I'm Marco Arment. And I'm David Smith. Under the Radar is never longer than 30

00:00:08 ◼   ► minutes, so let's get started. So today we wanted

00:00:12 ◼   ► to talk a little bit about App Review and

00:00:16 ◼   ► specifically avoiding App Store rejection. I've run into some

00:00:20 ◼   ► recent challenges with App Review and this is just sort of par for the course

00:00:24 ◼   ► and it seemed like a good opportunity to talk about this. Like, it's

00:00:28 ◼   ► And as much as it's easy and nice and fun to talk about the building an app process,

00:00:33 ◼   ► like the part of actually designing it, implementing it, testing it, and even in some ways even

00:00:39 ◼   ► like submitting it, that process, like at some point your app is going to go through

00:00:44 ◼   ► the app review process if you're an iOS developer.

00:00:48 ◼   ► And there's a very reasonable chance that at some point one of your apps is going to

00:00:54 ◼   ► be rejected.

00:00:56 ◼   ► And it's probably worth saying that this is very common.

00:00:59 ◼   ► Like I've been rejected many times over the years, I've been doing this for seven

00:01:03 ◼   ► years, and it isn't like, you know, so somehow when I get rejected, it's always a bit

00:01:08 ◼   ► sad and complicated, but it isn't something that's like life-shattering and like, "Oh

00:01:14 ◼   ► no, this is terrible," because, you know, it's a process and you can usually work

00:01:18 ◼   ► your way through, like, with a very few exceptions, almost all the times I've had an app rejected,

00:01:23 ◼   ► I end up working with App Review, it's either a misunderstanding or I just need to change

00:01:27 ◼   ► something small and subtle in my app, and you can work your way through.

00:01:32 ◼   ► But there's a lot of things that you can probably do to avoid it in the first place, and then

00:01:36 ◼   ► just sort of some things that I think we're going to talk about too of things to--how

00:01:40 ◼   ► to respond in an appropriate and constructive way when things don't go quite your way.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Because it's a big part of the process, and it's also certainly something you want to

00:01:49 ◼   ► keep in mind when you're planning your release, especially if you're trying to release something

00:01:54 ◼   ► with a specific date in mind, I think right now Apple quotes that 98% of new apps are

00:02:00 ◼   ► reviewed within five days right now, on their support website, which I say, take them at

00:02:06 ◼   ► their word, that's probably true. But that doesn't mean that once you submit, your app

00:02:11 ◼   ► will be ready in five days, because every time you get rejected, you kind of have to

00:02:15 ◼   ► to restart that clock, and so I tend to expect things

00:02:19 ◼   ► to take at least two weeks, like 14 days,

00:02:23 ◼   ► to be, you know, from when I submit it

00:02:24 ◼   ► to when it will be ready for the store,

00:02:26 ◼   ► and by and large, unless, you know,

00:02:28 ◼   ► things are going very problematic,

00:02:30 ◼   ► or it's a really, really, really busy time of the year

00:02:32 ◼   ► that usually sort of seems to work out.

00:02:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, you know, this is probably a bigger problem

00:02:38 ◼   ► with consulting where you have to,

00:02:40 ◼   ► where the client wants to know, like,

00:02:41 ◼   ► when is this gonna be ready, and you kinda can't give them

00:02:44 ◼   ► a guaranteed date.

00:02:47 ◼   ► But anytime you're planning any kind of marketing push,

00:02:49 ◼   ► which you probably should be with almost any kind of app

00:02:51 ◼   ► you make these days, it is kind of a problem

00:02:53 ◼   ► to not know when it will actually be released.

00:02:56 ◼   ► And if you can have everything kind of uncommitted

00:03:01 ◼   ► and just kind of in draft mode with all your marketing

00:03:04 ◼   ► and everything, then you can just release it

00:03:07 ◼   ► whenever you get approved or within an ideal day

00:03:11 ◼   ► of if you wanna wait 'til it's not a weekend

00:03:12 ◼   ► wait till it's not midnight or whatever,

00:03:14 ◼   ► that's probably a better idea.

00:03:16 ◼   ► But otherwise, if you have to commit

00:03:19 ◼   ► to a firm date to somebody, the only real way to do that

00:03:23 ◼   ► is to set the app for hold for developer release

00:03:26 ◼   ► and get it approved first and then set a date.

00:03:31 ◼   ► And of course, that's very time consuming,

00:03:32 ◼   ► 'cause then you have to basically write the entire app

00:03:35 ◼   ► like maybe a month before you wanna actually release it

00:03:37 ◼   ► because you have to allow all these paddings for everything.

00:03:40 ◼   ► And so I think it's just, you know, anything you can do both for your client if you're

00:03:44 ◼   ► a consultant or for yourself if you're not, and anything you can do to kind of reduce

00:03:49 ◼   ► people's expectations of having a precise release date for an App Store app will help

00:03:54 ◼   ► you there because that's the reality of what we're dealing with here with App Review.

00:03:59 ◼   ► And it's always been that way and it's always been, you know, it's always been you can get

00:04:03 ◼   ► it released within a week most of the time, but not all the time and you can't guarantee

00:04:09 ◼   ► that and it might be longer, you know, and you can't even say, oh, well, maybe we'll

00:04:13 ◼   ► get rejected once and then second time we'll get through. You can't even say that because

00:04:17 ◼   ► second time, you know, first of all, it might take longer. There's occasionally times where

00:04:21 ◼   ► you get stuck in a preview for weeks and you don't really know why and maybe you got like

00:04:25 ◼   ► email developer relations to have them kick it for you and get it going again or something

00:04:29 ◼   ► and sometimes things require manager review if you're like kind of on the edge of something

00:04:33 ◼   ► which we'll get to. So there's, you know, you can never really be sure how long it will

00:04:38 ◼   ► take. And so anything you can do to not depend on that, or to not guarantee that to anybody

00:04:43 ◼   ► else, the more you can do that the better.

00:04:46 ◼   ► Yeah. And it's just sort of part of the process. And it's probably one of the things to keep

00:04:49 ◼   ► in mind with, like, the number one rule of app review in some ways is to, like, keep

00:04:53 ◼   ► calm and try and not have it be a pressured thing, which is very much easier said than

00:04:59 ◼   ► done. And I'm speaking that from very specific experience where it's hard to not be calm,

00:05:05 ◼   ► anything you can do, like you're sort of like to take pressure off that process, to have

00:05:09 ◼   ► it not be like, "But I have to have this out by this particular day." Like that is a, like

00:05:15 ◼   ► asking for trouble because this is the process we have. Like App Review exists for a purpose,

00:05:20 ◼   ► you could disagree with that purpose or not, but like it exists, this is the, like these

00:05:23 ◼   ► are the rules of the store, and so it's just something that we have to, as developers,

00:05:28 ◼   ► keep in mind and plan accordingly.

00:05:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's not going anywhere.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Like if you're sitting, I mean,

00:05:34 ◼   ► even the most hardcore developers

00:05:37 ◼   ► who were really super against the idea of the App Store

00:05:39 ◼   ► in the early days, I don't know anybody

00:05:42 ◼   ► who is still fighting the fight of saying,

00:05:44 ◼   ► there shouldn't be App Review.

00:05:46 ◼   ► Everyone fought that fight in 2008,

00:05:48 ◼   ► and I don't think anyone is still expecting that to change.

00:05:52 ◼   ► And ultimately, I like the idea of App Review,

00:05:56 ◼   ► and I usually like the implementation of it.

00:05:58 ◼   ► there are parts of it that I think need to be reconsidered

00:06:02 ◼   ► or need to be improved, but overall,

00:06:05 ◼   ► the concept of App Review and most of the execution of it

00:06:09 ◼   ► I think is actually beneficial to both us and our customers.

00:06:13 ◼   ► And as an App Store customer also,

00:06:15 ◼   ► I appreciate that it's there.

00:06:17 ◼   ► - Exactly, 'cause it's, you know, its goal is to try

00:06:20 ◼   ► and maintain sort of a certain, like,

00:06:22 ◼   ► be this line in the sand to try and say, like,

00:06:25 ◼   ► you have to meet this bar.

00:06:27 ◼   ► And we can argue about where that bar is, but yeah, I'm very glad that there is a bar,

00:06:32 ◼   ► and both it's helpful as a developer to have a goal in mind.

00:06:36 ◼   ► And I think in general I wish the bar were a bit higher in a lot of cases, but it's the

00:06:42 ◼   ► bar that exists that we have to at the very least reach.

00:06:47 ◼   ► So let's probably start talking about that bar.

00:06:51 ◼   ► And there's a couple of links we'll have in the show notes about this.

00:06:53 ◼   ► Like Apple is pretty helpful in terms of their documentation about app review, about what

00:06:58 ◼   ► to expect, and they have a really helpful page that if you haven't looked at, you're

00:07:02 ◼   ► kind of doing this wrong, of common app rejection reasons.

00:07:07 ◼   ► And they have a page where they list out like what are these most common reasons, and they

00:07:11 ◼   ► even include at the bottom like for certain periods of time, they'll say what the most

00:07:16 ◼   ► common reasons were for app rejections.

00:07:18 ◼   ► But before we get into those, the first thing you always have to do when you think about

00:07:22 ◼   ► app review is read the actual app review guidelines. Like, if you haven't read the rules, there's

00:07:28 ◼   ► really no way that you could reasonably expect for your app to pass review except by luck.

00:07:34 ◼   ► And there's a lot of them. I counted them up in preparation for today's show, and there

00:07:38 ◼   ► are currently 182 app review rules, and they're broken down into all kinds of different categories,

00:07:45 ◼   ► they're all different kinds, like there's ones that are functional, there's ones that

00:07:47 ◼   ► that are more privacy related.

00:07:49 ◼   ► There's ones that only apply to certain apps.

00:07:52 ◼   ► So if you're a health app, there's

00:07:53 ◼   ► certain rules that apply to you.

00:07:55 ◼   ► If you're a insurance company, there's certain rules.

00:07:59 ◼   ► There's all kinds of very-- some of them are very specific.

00:08:01 ◼   ► Some of them are very broad.

00:08:03 ◼   ► And it's one of these things that periodically you

00:08:04 ◼   ► should probably just read through the app review

00:08:07 ◼   ► guidelines and make sure that you at least know vaguely

00:08:09 ◼   ► what's going on there.

00:08:11 ◼   ► It's because ignorance of the rule

00:08:13 ◼   ► isn't going to be a particularly useful defense if app review

00:08:16 ◼   ► back and says, "Hey, you need to change this." And you're like, "Oh, I didn't know." It's

00:08:20 ◼   ► like, well, it's in the guidelines. But on that page, the most interesting thing that

00:08:27 ◼   ► I see that when they break down the typical reasons that people get rejected, at least

00:08:34 ◼   ► a quarter of them are in some ways entirely avoidable. So 14 percent, they said, of app

00:08:40 ◼   ► projections happen because the developer did not provide enough information. That's like

00:08:45 ◼   ► the catchall, more information needed, which I would take to mean you didn't do something

00:08:52 ◼   ► complete in your App Store description or your screenshots, or you're doing something

00:08:57 ◼   ► funny that they need more clarification on, which is, just as a side note, when you submit

00:09:03 ◼   ► an app, there's a little box that says Reviewer Notes. If you're not putting anything in there,

00:09:08 ◼   ► probably sort of doing it wrong because that's your opportunity. If there's anything that's

00:09:16 ◼   ► weird or edge casey or that your reviewer could get confused by, you can write a little

00:09:21 ◼   ► note and the reviewer will read it before they look at your app. And so anytime you're

00:09:27 ◼   ► doing anything that could be problematic, kind of preempt that by saying, "Hey, I'm

00:09:32 ◼   ► doing this in this app, maybe if it requires a certain kind of permission, you can explain

00:09:39 ◼   ► why it requires that permission. So in Podometer++, I have a little note that I usually submit

00:09:44 ◼   ► along with it that says it requires motion tracking permission, and that's what it uses

00:09:49 ◼   ► to count your steps. If you don't provide this information, it shows you an informational

00:09:52 ◼   ► screen in the app indicating that it needs that permission in order to gather the data,

00:09:57 ◼   ► or something like that. But like 14% of app projections are because you didn't provide

00:10:02 ◼   ► enough information. And then another 10% are apps that exhibit bugs, which is typically,

00:10:09 ◼   ► in this case, I think, crashes, is probably the biggest category of bugs. But like, that

00:10:15 ◼   ► ultimately, if you're submitting an app that's crashing in the brief window that the app

00:10:20 ◼   ► reviewer is looking at it, like something's got missed in QA, probably, because they're

00:10:26 ◼   ► really not, it's not the kind of bug that they're going to be importing 10,000 records

00:10:30 ◼   ► into your database and really working, like pushing your app to the limit. I expect they're

00:10:35 ◼   ► probably sitting down with your app and using it for five minutes at most. And so if it

00:10:40 ◼   ► crashes in that first five minutes, you've probably done something not quite right in

00:10:45 ◼   ► your testing phase. You should probably have been able to replicate the crash that they're

00:10:49 ◼   ► having in the first place.

00:10:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, and this is one of the reasons why

00:10:54 ◼   ► app review is so good for everybody,

00:10:58 ◼   ► because, yeah, I mean, there are lots of crashes

00:11:01 ◼   ► that get through review and that ship to customers,

00:11:03 ◼   ► but I know a lot of developers, myself included,

00:11:07 ◼   ► who app review has saved us from accidentally shipping

00:11:11 ◼   ► something that would have affected a lot more people.

00:11:13 ◼   ► Like, you know, they test a lot about the app.

00:11:16 ◼   ► Like, you know, for instance, like if your new user

00:11:20 ◼   ► or login process is broken and you ship a bug fix update

00:11:24 ◼   ► that you think it's just a bug fix

00:11:25 ◼   ► and you don't test new user logins

00:11:27 ◼   ► because you didn't hit that during your hour of testing

00:11:30 ◼   ► on your own phone, they will hit that

00:11:33 ◼   ► and then you don't accidentally break the app

00:11:35 ◼   ► for all of your customers during the next week

00:11:38 ◼   ► while you can get another bug fix out.

00:11:40 ◼   ► So this is like, the guideline where if your app crashes

00:11:45 ◼   ► or exhibits obvious bugs during review,

00:11:47 ◼   ► you will definitely get rejected.

00:11:48 ◼   ► that is great, and I think that's totally unarguable

00:11:52 ◼   ► whether that should be there or not.

00:11:54 ◼   ► - Exactly, yeah.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Like, that's the kind of, and it's,

00:11:56 ◼   ► I will, like, it certainly happened to me too, yeah,

00:11:58 ◼   ► where you, it's a lovely thing where they'll catch something

00:12:02 ◼   ► that you just, it's usually not hard to recreate,

00:12:04 ◼   ► but it's just a situation that you may not,

00:12:06 ◼   ► you may have missed.

00:12:07 ◼   ► Like, it's on a particular device,

00:12:10 ◼   ► or like on a fresh install on a particular device,

00:12:12 ◼   ► you'll have an issue, or things like that.

00:12:15 ◼   ► And it certainly is a nice thing that it's like,

00:12:16 ◼   ► there's this last sort of sanity process.

00:12:19 ◼   ► Definitely don't rely on it as a QA process.

00:12:21 ◼   ► App Review is not QA.

00:12:23 ◼   ► It's not like, oh, I don't need to worry about doing basic QA

00:12:27 ◼   ► because App Review will find it.

00:12:28 ◼   ► That is entirely the wrong way to look at it.

00:12:31 ◼   ► It's more like it's this last chance

00:12:33 ◼   ► to catch a bug that may otherwise get through.

00:12:39 ◼   ► But once we're through, kind of like those first two,

00:12:41 ◼   ► like you just didn't provide enough information to Apple,

00:12:44 ◼   ► or there's obvious and glaring bugs in it.

00:12:48 ◼   ► Well, then we start to get into rules and things that

00:12:52 ◼   ► become much more squishy.

00:12:56 ◼   ► Things like rule 10.6 is one of these,

00:13:00 ◼   ► "Apple and our customers place a high value

00:13:02 ◼   ► on simple, refined, creative, well-thought-out interfaces.

00:13:07 ◼   ► They take more work, but they're worth it.

00:13:08 ◼   ► And Apple sets a high bar.

00:13:09 ◼   ► If your user interface is complex and less than very

00:13:13 ◼   ► good, it may be rejected.

00:13:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:13:17 ◼   ► - And like 6% of apps are rejected

00:13:19 ◼   ► for not meeting that criteria.

00:13:21 ◼   ► - I wonder, I'd love to see those 6%.

00:13:23 ◼   ► Because if you look at what's in the store,

00:13:26 ◼   ► I would describe many apps that I come across in the store

00:13:30 ◼   ► as having UIs that are less than very good.

00:13:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:13:34 ◼   ► So you gotta wonder what else they're seeing

00:13:36 ◼   ► that gets that 6% rejection.

00:13:38 ◼   ► 'Cause this is one of those areas

00:13:39 ◼   ► where I would love for the bar to be higher.

00:13:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:13:42 ◼   ► There are some of the guidelines that are negative, and there are some that are almost

00:13:49 ◼   ► more positive, more aspirational.

00:13:51 ◼   ► I like the concept of this rule, and I like the way it's written, even.

00:13:54 ◼   ► I think that's a really good thing, and being more strict on that is certainly something

00:13:59 ◼   ► that could be helpful.

00:14:01 ◼   ► But it's certainly something to keep in mind, that yeah, Apple is going to look at your

00:14:05 ◼   ► app, and if it really is just kind of shoddy and thrown together, there's a good chance

00:14:10 ◼   ► that it'll be rejected as a result.

00:14:12 ◼   ► And so, you know, like, work hard on your app,

00:14:16 ◼   ► make it look good, you know, try your best.

00:14:17 ◼   ► Like, especially in iOS, since like the iOS 7 stuff,

00:14:20 ◼   ► like a lot of these things are much easier to do

00:14:23 ◼   ► than they may have once been,

00:14:24 ◼   ► to kind of make an app that looks and feels at home

00:14:27 ◼   ► on the platform and, you know,

00:14:29 ◼   ► is good in that kind of visual sense.

00:14:32 ◼   ► But, you know, like know that if you don't,

00:14:35 ◼   ► you might get called on this.

00:14:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's, this is one of those rules

00:14:39 ◼   ► is that it's very hard to enforce consistently

00:14:43 ◼   ► by a large staff of a whole bunch of humans.

00:14:46 ◼   ► And this is part of the problem with that review.

00:14:47 ◼   ► One of the biggest problems they have

00:14:49 ◼   ► is just inconsistency of enforcement.

00:14:52 ◼   ► And we can sit here, as we have, and say,

00:14:55 ◼   ► we'd love for the bar to be higher

00:14:57 ◼   ► on the UI quality rule, but the higher they make it,

00:15:01 ◼   ► the more we're gonna see people getting rejected

00:15:04 ◼   ► for things that are arguable

00:15:06 ◼   ► or that they shouldn't have been rejected for.

00:15:08 ◼   ► and we don't like that and we blog about that.

00:15:11 ◼   ► So, you know, I don't know.

00:15:13 ◼   ► I think this is one of those things

00:15:16 ◼   ► where I wish the rule was more strict,

00:15:19 ◼   ► but if it were, it might just cause more problems.

00:15:22 ◼   ► - Maybe, yeah.

00:15:23 ◼   ► And it's probably also where it's like

00:15:26 ◼   ► the reality with app reviews,

00:15:27 ◼   ► and this is something very important

00:15:29 ◼   ► when you are dealing with a rejection,

00:15:31 ◼   ► is the understanding that the people

00:15:33 ◼   ► who are doing app review are people.

00:15:36 ◼   ► Like, they're individuals whose job it is

00:15:38 ◼   ► go to work every day and they sit down and they go through applications and they make

00:15:43 ◼   ► decisions about them, and people are flawed and make mistakes, and if they make mistakes,

00:15:48 ◼   ► in my experience, AppleView is very good about correcting those mistakes, but inevitably

00:15:54 ◼   ► there's going to be subjective decisions that someone has to make. They have to look at

00:15:58 ◼   ► it and it's like, "Is this good enough? Is this good enough?" Something like, if your

00:16:03 ◼   ► app crashes, it's a binary thing. As soon as your app crashes, it's failed from review.

00:16:08 ◼   ► just sort of like the rule. It's something like a, you know, a refined quality interface.

00:16:14 ◼   ► Like finding that line is inevitably going to be more difficult. And so just sort of

00:16:19 ◼   ► give App Review some grace about if we're having a mis—if you have a misunderstanding

00:16:24 ◼   ► with them about what that might be, then, you know, just kind of have to work through

00:16:29 ◼   ► that at a human level that you're just trying to convince somebody who's doing their job,

00:16:34 ◼   ► you know, that your app is actually good enough.

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00:18:27 ◼   ► - And of course there are many other rules

00:18:29 ◼   ► that we could talk about.

00:18:31 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, and just like,

00:18:32 ◼   ► kind of like as a guiding principle,

00:18:34 ◼   ► Like in general, I feel like a lot of people

00:18:38 ◼   ► look at the App Store rules as though it's like

00:18:41 ◼   ► a legal contract that you can try to wiggle your way around.

00:18:45 ◼   ► And it's very important to consider that the App Store rules

00:18:48 ◼   ► are not laws, and App Review is not a court of law.

00:18:52 ◼   ► And while you can, like while there are parts of it

00:18:56 ◼   ► that kind of sound like it, like there's the appeal process

00:18:59 ◼   ► and everything, but it's always important to remember

00:19:02 ◼   ► that these rules are broad, usually, they're vague,

00:19:07 ◼   ► they are made to be subjectively interpreted

00:19:11 ◼   ► by the app reviewers and their managers,

00:19:14 ◼   ► and they also are not the complete list of rules,

00:19:16 ◼   ► and the rules can change over time.

00:19:18 ◼   ► So really what matters is the spirit of the rules,

00:19:21 ◼   ► not the letter of the rules,

00:19:23 ◼   ► because they're all being subjectively evaluated,

00:19:25 ◼   ► and you can't guarantee that if you are trying

00:19:29 ◼   ► to skirt around a rule by using some kind

00:19:32 ◼   ► technicality in the wording or interpreting something differently, that probably won't

00:19:36 ◼   ► work. And if it gets through once, it probably won't get through the next time you gotta

00:19:39 ◼   ► do an update. And so it's wise in general to just avoid being near the edges of the

00:19:45 ◼   ► rules. You know, avoid relying on things that are almost disallowed or almost against the

00:19:51 ◼   ► rules but you're living on the edge because it's going to bite you eventually. You know,

00:19:56 ◼   ► again, you might get through this time but then when you need to submit an urgent bug

00:19:59 ◼   ► bug fix, that might get rejected for something the first version passed for. That wasn't

00:20:04 ◼   ► even included in the bug fix, but it just so happened, "Oh, your login screen plays

00:20:08 ◼   ► weird tricks that are kind of against the rules, so we're going to reject this important

00:20:11 ◼   ► bug fix." So generally speaking, this is not a place to try to play fast and loose

00:20:17 ◼   ► or try to live on the edge of a certain interpretation of a certain rule, because that's not how

00:20:22 ◼   ► this works.

00:20:23 ◼   ► >> Yeah, exactly. And especially when you start to get into the next most popular reasons

00:20:29 ◼   ► that people are rejected, start to become things that are very obvious that aren't good.

00:20:34 ◼   ► They tend to start to get into things around being fraudulent or misleading, not dealing

00:20:39 ◼   ► with people's personal information correctly, having misleading or inappropriate trademark

00:20:44 ◼   ► violations. Things that are kind of obvious and problematic. And if you're doing those

00:20:49 ◼   ► things, you really are in trouble. The place to push the boundaries in your application

00:20:53 ◼   ► is not on the policy side, it's almost certainly going to be on the technology side, doing

00:20:59 ◼   ► something new and interesting functionally rather than trying to find some new way to

00:21:05 ◼   ► game the app store. Because like you said, Apple at any point, it's a very one-sided

00:21:11 ◼   ► relationship and you could argue back and forth about whether that's a good thing or

00:21:14 ◼   ► not, but at the end of the day, if Apple doesn't like your app, they don't have to publish

00:21:18 ◼   ► it. It's not a situation that even if you and your heart of hearts could think this

00:21:25 ◼   ► app belongs on the App Store, if Apple disagrees, that's the way it is. And by and large, I

00:21:31 ◼   ► think they're fairly good stewards of that power, but ultimately that's the reality.

00:21:36 ◼   ► And so trying to do things that are gaming or being aggressive against the rules is just

00:21:43 ◼   ► never going to work, and it's just not productive.

00:21:45 ◼   ► Yeah, you basically you can't rely on getting away with it.

00:21:50 ◼   ► You know, like they like if you think you can get away with

00:21:53 ◼   ► things and other, you know, other parts of your life,

00:21:54 ◼   ► because you can live on the edge of rule or you can find a

00:21:57 ◼   ► little loophole. Apple doesn't care if what you do technically

00:22:02 ◼   ► is allowed by the wording of a certain rule. If it violates

00:22:06 ◼   ► what they believe to be the spirit of the rule, you're

00:22:08 ◼   ► going to get rejected simple as that and you can complain as

00:22:11 ◼   ► much as you want. You can you can blog about it. You can get

00:22:14 ◼   ► press about it, but ultimately, yeah, they make the final call

00:22:19 ◼   ► and you just have to accept that and you can argue about it,

00:22:24 ◼   ► but that arguing about it won't usually get your app back in

00:22:27 ◼   ► the store unless it's really truly arguable and they are

00:22:32 ◼   ► undecided internally about what the policy should be and then

00:22:35 ◼   ► you can argue for certain things to be changed like when

00:22:37 ◼   ► things are new and they're still figuring out the rules

00:22:39 ◼   ► around certain things, but stuff like the 30% cut and

00:22:41 ◼   ► trying to get around that, which everybody wants to try

00:22:43 ◼   ► around these days trying to have like an app purchase through your website that's not running

00:22:48 ◼   ► through their system and everything like stuff like that the rules pretty the rules are pretty

00:22:52 ◼   ► clear and you you won't skirt them by some technicality exactly and so lastly I think

00:23:00 ◼   ► the place to talk through is the process of when you get rejected what that's like and

00:23:06 ◼   ► then maybe some recommendations around like constructive approaches to it you know and

00:23:12 ◼   ► And so you submit an app and you put it out in the App Store, and it goes into waiting

00:23:17 ◼   ► for review as its status, and then eventually it'll pop over in review, which is always

00:23:22 ◼   ► very exciting.

00:23:23 ◼   ► >> JESSE EISINGER-HAWKMANN It's terrifying.

00:23:24 ◼   ► >> ANDREW WARNER Terrifying, yeah.

00:23:27 ◼   ► You could use that word, it's very similar.

00:23:29 ◼   ► So you're in this terrified state, just waiting for--and you probably should have the iTunes

00:23:35 ◼   ► Connect app installed on your phone, and in that you can turn on push notifications, so

00:23:39 ◼   ► You can be really aware of if anything's happened with your app.

00:23:44 ◼   ► And then you're hoping for, it'll probably come back to processing for App Store or pending

00:23:49 ◼   ► developer release if it's been approved.

00:23:51 ◼   ► That's like, those are the good ones.

00:23:53 ◼   ► Or you may get, your app has been rejected.

00:23:56 ◼   ► Which is a bit of a harsh thing that can mean a lot of different things.

00:24:00 ◼   ► It could be rejected, there's what's called metadata rejection, which is the app is fine,

00:24:05 ◼   ► but there's some issue with your screenshot or description, or something along those lines

00:24:09 ◼   ► or your keywords aren't quite right, or those types of things where it's more of a very

00:24:13 ◼   ► minor fix, like you don't have to resubmit your app, you can just change the metadata

00:24:16 ◼   ► and resubmit. But when it happens, usually the app will provide you a reason in what's

00:24:24 ◼   ► called a resolution center in iTunes Connect. And usually they'll cite a rule, like I've

00:24:30 ◼   ► pretty much always had a rejection that always ties back to some rule. Sometimes the rules

00:24:34 ◼   ► are the very sort of catch-all rules, sometimes they're very specific. They'll say, "This

00:24:39 ◼   ► This is the rule that you violated.

00:24:42 ◼   ► They give you a one or two sentence description about your specific violation, and then they'll

00:24:47 ◼   ► usually give you a couple of sentences about what you'll need to change, if anything could

00:24:52 ◼   ► be changed, to be in compliance with the rule.

00:24:56 ◼   ► When this happens, number one advice, and this is hard-fought advice that I've learned

00:25:00 ◼   ► over the years, is the first thing you need to do is calm down.

00:25:05 ◼   ► It's so easy, at least for myself, for this to be a very emotional thing.

00:25:11 ◼   ► It's kind of like when you read a one-star review in the App Store or something like

00:25:14 ◼   ► that, where it can be very emotional, like you can become very attached to your software,

00:25:17 ◼   ► and then suddenly someone is saying they don't like it.

00:25:20 ◼   ► It's rejected.

00:25:21 ◼   ► It's a pretty harsh thing.

00:25:22 ◼   ► And so you kind of have to just take a step back, take a deep breath.

00:25:25 ◼   ► You don't want to just immediately go to the resolution center, open that up, and start

00:25:30 ◼   ► yelling and screaming and saying, "I can't believe you did this."

00:25:34 ◼   ► reality is you need to be professional. You need to be polite, understand that there is

00:25:39 ◼   ► just someone doing their job at the other end of this, so being polite, considerate,

00:25:43 ◼   ► patient, like writing in full sentences with not full all caps. These are things that are

00:25:49 ◼   ► probably going to help your case, because shouting at them isn't going to help your

00:25:53 ◼   ► case. Being clear and constructive might be, or at least will help. And the thing that

00:25:59 ◼   ► I found most helpful too is to take a step back and try and put yourself in the app reviewer's

00:26:05 ◼   ► shoes and see why they rejected you. Like if it isn't immediately obvious, like if obviously

00:26:09 ◼   ► if they just said like your app crashed, that that's not a big surprise. But if you're on

00:26:14 ◼   ► one of these things where it's more subjective, just being like, well, you're wrong, like,

00:26:19 ◼   ► that's not what I'm doing there. Or that's different or you're, you know, that rule is

00:26:22 ◼   ► stupid. None of those are going to help. But if you can understand why they're doing it,

00:26:25 ◼   ► like where they're coming from, what the spirit of that rule is probably around, and frame

00:26:30 ◼   ► your response to them accordingly, you probably have a much better chance of kind of clearing

00:26:37 ◼   ► it up and just sort of having it be a misunderstanding that gets fixed, rather than being like a

00:26:42 ◼   ► confrontation that just began.

00:26:45 ◼   ► And beyond that, you just kind of have to work the process.

00:26:47 ◼   ► Like it'll take time, you write them a message, and then within a few hours, a few days, you'll

00:26:52 ◼   ► get a response back.

00:26:54 ◼   ► If you need to, you can go to the app review appeal board, which I think would take even

00:26:59 ◼   ► longer if you really are pushing up against something that is kind of gray in the policy.

00:27:04 ◼   ► But in general, you just kind of have to keep calm and just work the process and understand

00:27:10 ◼   ► that it happens.

00:27:12 ◼   ► It's nothing personal in that way.

00:27:15 ◼   ► It's not like, "Oh man, you're a failure.

00:27:17 ◼   ► Your app was rejected initially."

00:27:18 ◼   ► I've had a lot of apps, many of whom went on to be very successful, that their first

00:27:22 ◼   ► submission was rejected for all kinds of reasons.

00:27:26 ◼   ► And so it's just part of the process.

00:27:28 ◼   ► Keep calm, be respectful, and it'll probably

00:27:30 ◼   ► work out okay in the end.

00:27:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, 'cause we all go through this.

00:27:34 ◼   ► Everyone gets rejected, and even,

00:27:36 ◼   ► not just your first version,

00:27:38 ◼   ► updates can get rejected for all sorts of reasons too.

00:27:41 ◼   ► And I mean, my apps get rejected all the time.

00:27:43 ◼   ► Probably, I would say, maybe 10 to 20%

00:27:47 ◼   ► of my submissions get rejected for some reason.

00:27:50 ◼   ► And that's 'cause, and it used to be a higher rate,

00:27:52 ◼   ► like I've just gotten better over the years

00:27:53 ◼   ► at trying to avoid those issues.

00:27:55 ◼   ► It just, it happens, right?

00:27:57 ◼   ► And we all deal with it.

00:27:58 ◼   ► I mean, right now, like, I'm on edge right now

00:28:00 ◼   ► against all the advice you just gave.

00:28:02 ◼   ► I'm not calm right now because I have a bug fix update

00:28:04 ◼   ► for Overcast that's been in review through a night boundary.

00:28:08 ◼   ► And usually what that means, like,

00:28:10 ◼   ► in review is fine when it lasts one day.

00:28:14 ◼   ► When it crosses a night boundary

00:28:15 ◼   ► and you are in review for multiple days,

00:28:18 ◼   ► what that sometimes means is they're busy.

00:28:21 ◼   ► But what it most of the time means is

00:28:24 ◼   ► you're being kicked out to a manager for something.

00:28:26 ◼   ► And that's usually not good.

00:28:28 ◼   ► I'm probably about to get rejected for some reason

00:28:30 ◼   ► that I consider BS, but I'm just gonna deal with it,

00:28:34 ◼   ► and I'll resubmit, and I'll move on, and that's life.

00:28:36 ◼   ► That's just being an app developer,

00:28:38 ◼   ► and it's no big deal.

00:28:40 ◼   ► - Exactly, and we just make the best of it.

00:28:44 ◼   ► Maybe it's an example of a place

00:28:46 ◼   ► where it's just part of being,

00:28:48 ◼   ► like you use the word professionalism or something,

00:28:51 ◼   ► Like this is an area where that comes very much into play,

00:28:54 ◼   ► that like, okay, it happens, let's just move on,

00:28:57 ◼   ► try and make it as unemotional as we can,

00:28:59 ◼   ► let's be respectful as best we can.

00:29:01 ◼   ► And in the end, like I said,

00:29:02 ◼   ► I've been doing this a long time,

00:29:04 ◼   ► I've been rejected many times, I've had some very,

00:29:06 ◼   ► I've had a lot of feelings about rejections at times,

00:29:12 ◼   ► but by and large, I can look back,

00:29:14 ◼   ► and the reason I'm still doing this,

00:29:16 ◼   ► seven and a half years later, is because in the end,

00:29:20 ◼   ► I very rarely look back at the way that App Review

00:29:22 ◼   ► has behaved and look at it and sometimes I'll disagree

00:29:26 ◼   ► with it, but I can respect it and I can understand

00:29:29 ◼   ► where it's coming from and that helps a lot

00:29:32 ◼   ► in keeping level-handed and being reasonable in this process.

00:29:36 ◼   ► - Well said.

00:29:37 ◼   ► All right, thanks a lot for listening everybody

00:29:39 ◼   ► and we will talk to you next week.

00:29:41 ◼   ► - Bye.

00:29:42 ◼   ► [ Silence ]