127: Why Don’t You Love Hawaii?


00:00:00   Let me just put my list of a thousand notes on the screen.

00:00:03   Close down this Google Earth that has Hawaii in the center of the Pacific Ocean.

00:00:08   You should stop opening that.

00:00:09   Like, I don't think that's good for you to keep looking at that.

00:00:12   Look, when you open up the map, it centers on where you are.

00:00:16   The answer is in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

00:00:19   Why do you need Google Earth open all the time?

00:00:20   I'm actually using it for a video that I'm working on.

00:00:23   So that's why I keep opening up Google Earth.

00:00:25   And then it's like, hey, have you seen that Hawaii exists in the middle

00:00:29   of the biggest expanse of nothing on the face of the Earth?

00:00:31   Yes, Google Earth, I have seen that.

00:00:33   I think about it all the time.

00:00:35   - So you know me and Steven have a show on Genius, right?

00:00:38   Wikipedia article things.

00:00:39   We just did one about the,

00:00:41   I think it's called the spaceship graveyard, I think.

00:00:43   - Oh yeah, yeah.

00:00:44   - Which is this part in the Pacific Ocean

00:00:46   where everybody just aims their satellites

00:00:48   and rockets towards,

00:00:50   'cause it's so big in an expanse of nothingness

00:00:54   that you can just put everything there

00:00:56   and it's apparently quote unquote fine.

00:00:58   That'll be fun for future alien archeologists.

00:01:00   Why did they put all these machines

00:01:02   in the bottom of the ocean here?

00:01:04   - Oh, this is how you get to like an Atlantis type thing.

00:01:07   - Yeah, yeah.

00:01:08   - Why did this civilization

00:01:10   have this underwater rocket launching pad

00:01:13   where clearly there was a horrific explosion?

00:01:15   (laughing)

00:01:16   - Good luck alien archeologists.

00:01:18   - It's in the South Pacific Ocean Uninhibited Area.

00:01:22   - Right.

00:01:23   - That's its full name or spacecraft cemetery.

00:01:25   - Much better.

00:01:27   We have today probably the wildest time difference that we could have had and have definitely ever had.

00:01:35   Yeah. We're two hours short of the maximum time difference.

00:01:39   Oh, is that true?

00:01:40   I think we're 10 hours off right now.

00:01:42   Yeah.

00:01:42   It's 11 a.m. for me and it's...

00:01:44   South past 9 for me.

00:01:45   We'll be... next time we record, because I will still be in Hawaii,

00:01:50   and because Hawaii doesn't do Daylight Savings Time, but the UK does,

00:01:54   Then we will be one hour off of the maximum difference that we could be.

00:01:59   So we'll be 11 hours off next time.

00:02:00   I didn't know that.

00:02:01   Is that just because of like just the way that land masses are?

00:02:04   Like you would never be no matter where you are that like more than 12 hours or whatever?

00:02:09   Is that is that the case?

00:02:11   Yeah that's that's got it right?

00:02:12   Am I doing that right?

00:02:13   I have no idea man.

00:02:14   I've never I've never even thought about that before.

00:02:17   I just figured like you could be anywhere within 24.

00:02:20   Yeah, but if you're within 24, you start getting closer because you're the other way, right?

00:02:25   Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:27   You're less hours apart because you're closer together.

00:02:30   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:32   So that's why we're two...

00:02:33   Yeah, you would never be like 13 hours behind.

00:02:37   Right.

00:02:38   Or whatever it would be, like you would then move the other direction.

00:02:41   I get it now, yeah.

00:02:42   Right, so I think if for the next recording, I think if you go to Romania, I'm gonna guess,

00:02:49   because I think they're an additional hour ahead.

00:02:50   No, it's two.

00:02:51   Okay, right.

00:02:52   If you were in Romania now, then,

00:02:54   we would be the furthest away that we could possibly be.

00:02:57   Yeah.

00:02:57   But if you went any further east,

00:02:59   you would start coming closer to me.

00:03:01   So that's how that works.

00:03:02   I will say as well, like,

00:03:03   you are so far away physically and in time,

00:03:06   but it genuinely, to me, doesn't sound like you're any further.

00:03:10   Like, I know why that is,

00:03:12   but like, it's just so fascinating to me sometimes.

00:03:14   Like, you're so far away from me,

00:03:17   But you could just tell me you were at home and I wouldn't know.

00:03:20   Yeah.

00:03:21   Like, just from having this conversation, this call.

00:03:23   I mean, maybe when I get the audio back, I'll hear, like, some kind of wildlife behind you,

00:03:27   which is always a possibility, but, like, over this Skype call, like, it just sounds exactly the same.

00:03:33   It's like, in my mind, I imagine there's going to be this, like, long delay or, like...

00:03:37   But it's just weird. It's just, like, a funny thing.

00:03:39   Yeah. Thanks, internet.

00:03:40   Hey, look, it's late for me right now. Maybe I'm a little loopy.

00:03:43   I don't record podcasts this late anymore, which is a good thing in my life.

00:03:47   I used to record podcasts this late a lot, but not anymore.

00:03:51   Yeah. Next time we record, you might hear mooing

00:03:53   because there's cows that are right outside of my window,

00:03:56   but they're not there today because there's currently a tropical storm warning

00:04:01   and there's 50 mile an hour winds outside my window.

00:04:04   So all of the cows are in some shelter somewhere else.

00:04:06   Yeah, in true, like, cortex fashion, like, there's never just one problem.

00:04:11   [laughter]

00:04:14   That is like a real thing for us.

00:04:16   There is never one problem for our recordings.

00:04:19   There's always like multiple problems.

00:04:21   Now when you phrase it this way, yeah, it's like, "Oh, right.

00:04:24   Yes, the wind knocked out the internet a little bit this morning,

00:04:28   but also I had to go move a water trough away from an electric fence

00:04:33   moments before starting recording."

00:04:34   I'm like, "Hold on a minute. I'll be right back."

00:04:37   But it's the same as when I was away, right?

00:04:38   like, "Oh, I'm away, I'm recording for a couple of hours, I'm on a different time zone, I don't

00:04:45   have a good environment to record in, I don't have good internet, I'm going to Disneyland later on,

00:04:50   oh and now I also need to get a COVID test." Like it was like, there's never just like one thing,

00:04:54   there's always like a staged amount of thing, but yeah, you had like Ray Texie today and he's like,

00:04:59   "So the internet's out now, uh, because it's a tropical storm."

00:05:06   Yeah, but it's all good now and it is the gift of the modern world that we can have a conversation

00:05:12   and it does just sound like, "Oh, you could be down the street!" And it doesn't sound like I'm

00:05:16   talking to you through like a tin can on a string from the middle of the ocean, which is what it

00:05:23   seems like it should sound like.

00:05:24   [Ding]

00:05:25   So I have a follow-up/story for you.

00:05:28   I condensed down to the one tech kit.

00:05:30   Oh, okay.

00:05:31   So if you remember last time I had the tech kit, the bow-ray tech kit and the bow-ray pouch.

00:05:35   And by removing the external battery from my tech kit,

00:05:40   I was able to get all the cables that I needed.

00:05:43   I will say that the Bellroy pouch was like fit to burst,

00:05:47   but I got everything I need in it, went in the bag,

00:05:49   had more space in the backpack, very happy.

00:05:52   So the little extra pouch and the battery they sent home,

00:05:55   everything in the one tech kit.

00:05:57   I was very happy with that.

00:05:58   - Nice, I'm glad to hear that.

00:06:00   I got my own little tech kit just before this trip

00:06:03   and it was great recommendation from you.

00:06:04   - I love it, it's nice, right?

00:06:05   Like, I like the little elastic things

00:06:08   to put all the cables in, all that kind of stuff.

00:06:10   I made full use of it, so I was very happy with it.

00:06:12   - Yeah, no, it's perfect.

00:06:13   Mine was also fit to burst,

00:06:15   'cause it had everything for me and my wife,

00:06:17   but, you know, that was a well-timed recommendation

00:06:20   from you last time.

00:06:20   - But we mentioned that the universe plays tricks.

00:06:24   - Oh, okay, what happened, Myke?

00:06:27   - The universe played a trick on me.

00:06:29   - Did you need that battery in the end?

00:06:30   - Memphis has an airport

00:06:32   called Memphis International Airport.

00:06:34   Memphis flies nowhere internationally.

00:06:37   - That's illegal.

00:06:38   No, it has to fly somewhere internationally

00:06:40   if it's an international airport.

00:06:41   - FedEx does.

00:06:42   - Oh, that's a little sneaky Memphis.

00:06:44   - It also used to.

00:06:46   When many years ago you could fly,

00:06:50   I think a route that went through Amsterdam,

00:06:53   Shepole I think.

00:06:55   I think it was like Delta Airlines.

00:06:56   Delta Airlines I think,

00:06:57   if I'm remembering my Memphis history enough.

00:07:00   But I did realize recently,

00:07:01   outside of London, I know more about Memphis

00:07:03   than anywhere else in the world.

00:07:06   Delta Airlines used to use Memphis as a hub.

00:07:08   They moved to Atlanta,

00:07:11   which kind of screwed Memphis in a bunch of ways.

00:07:13   But Memphis Airport, Memphis International Airport,

00:07:15   flies nowhere internationally.

00:07:17   - Oh yeah, it's huge.

00:07:18   Okay, that makes sense why it used to be a hub.

00:07:21   I was just looking it up, like, look at all those runways.

00:07:23   Yeah, that is a former hub.

00:07:26   MEM, nice, I like that, that's good.

00:07:28   - So we always have to connect, right?

00:07:30   So this time we were connecting through Dallas-Fort Worth

00:07:35   and we had a shorter connection time.

00:07:37   I'm a, you know, not nervous, nervous traveler.

00:07:40   I've gotten way better over the years,

00:07:42   but connections are a thing that I don't enjoy.

00:07:44   I always feel like they're going to go wrong.

00:07:47   I mean, this is probably in part,

00:07:48   like the first time that I went to America

00:07:50   with my older brother when I was like 18,

00:07:53   we missed our connecting flight because of a delay

00:07:55   and had to stay over in a completely different place

00:07:58   over 12 hours and spent another 12 hours in an airport on standby. So like I've had

00:08:03   very unpleasant experiences. You know all about standby. You did that by choice.

00:08:09   Yeah, and as someone who just went from Heathrow to Dulles to RDU to O'Hare to LAX to finally

00:08:17   get to Hawaii, I understand connections, yeah. You did make some purposeful stop-offs in

00:08:23   the way though, right? Like that's not like one trip.

00:08:25   - Yes, but still, it's too many connections.

00:08:28   - Yes, connections.

00:08:29   So when we were booking our flights

00:08:32   to get the price that I wanted to come home,

00:08:36   I was gonna have a short connection,

00:08:37   which is like, it was like an hour and 20 minutes,

00:08:39   which is, that's like an hour less than I like, you know?

00:08:42   - Yeah.

00:08:43   - But the way I worked it out is,

00:08:45   and this is how I tend to do things,

00:08:46   I take a longer connection going to the place,

00:08:49   because if I'm gonna be delayed,

00:08:51   I prefer to be delayed coming home.

00:08:54   - Yeah, for sure.

00:08:55   Because then it doesn't feel like it's time wasted or money wasted as such, right?

00:09:00   So I felt like it could have been an issue, but we got off on time.

00:09:04   So it seemed like it wasn't going to be a problem.

00:09:07   And at one moment it felt like, I felt like this was a short flight.

00:09:12   This was supposed to be a short flight and I wasn't really keeping track of it, but it

00:09:15   was like, I've watched four episodes of Mad Men.

00:09:19   I was expecting to have watched like two.

00:09:22   This is meant to be like a 90 minute flight.

00:09:24   I was like, I don't know, whatever.

00:09:25   And then all of a sudden they're like,

00:09:26   ladies and gentlemen, we've been circling above Dallas

00:09:30   for a while 'cause there's some weather.

00:09:33   We now have to divert because of,

00:09:35   there's like a storm over Dallas Airport.

00:09:38   We're going to Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is not like close.

00:09:42   It's another hour away.

00:09:43   It's like pretty much the entire,

00:09:45   like double the distance we've already gone.

00:09:48   The Memphis to Dallas, I think is like 90 minutes.

00:09:50   So we're going another hour away.

00:09:52   - Anywhere where you're leaving the state of Texas

00:09:55   is a long way.

00:09:56   - Yeah, we're going now to the state of Oklahoma.

00:09:58   All right, we're like, we're going, right?

00:09:59   We're off.

00:10:01   And I'm like, two things are happening in my mind.

00:10:04   One is we're not making that connecting flight.

00:10:06   Like that's not happening now.

00:10:08   Two is, I knew it.

00:10:11   I need the battery pack.

00:10:12   Because what's gonna happen to me now, you know?

00:10:17   We land in Tulsa.

00:10:19   We were on the tarmac in Tulsa

00:10:21   for like two and a half hours or something,

00:10:23   maybe three hours.

00:10:26   What we knew at that point was no planes were leaving Dallas.

00:10:30   So it was like, well, maybe we'll get back in time, right?

00:10:33   'Cause all the planes are backing up right at Dallas.

00:10:36   So we're sitting there and people keep coming on and off

00:10:38   and on and off and we're waiting for refueling, right?

00:10:41   We had to go 'cause we were running out of fuel, right?

00:10:43   So like we had to go to Tulsa,

00:10:44   we couldn't keep circling DFW forever

00:10:46   'cause we had no fuel in the plane.

00:10:48   And it was just like one of those situations

00:10:51   and then there's like guy behind me

00:10:52   was starting to have like an argument

00:10:54   with one of the air stewards

00:10:56   'cause he wanted more alcohol

00:10:58   and it was like, oh my God, what is going on?

00:11:00   Like it just, it started to become

00:11:01   one of those kinds of situations, right?

00:11:04   And luckily we were on a modern enough plane

00:11:08   that it had USB ports on it.

00:11:09   So I was able to charge my phone.

00:11:11   So I was happy about that.

00:11:13   But this is where that part of the story ends.

00:11:16   And now I just wanna tell you the story

00:11:17   of what happened afterwards.

00:11:19   So the story ends now with Myke didn't need the battery

00:11:22   'cause he could charge his phone

00:11:23   and the iPhone maxes battery so good.

00:11:26   It's like, I just topped it up

00:11:27   and I was good for however long it was gonna take.

00:11:30   Spoiler alert, it took a really long time.

00:11:32   So everything gets taken care of

00:11:34   and we're taxiing to leave Tulsa.

00:11:39   We then get the notification from Flighty

00:11:40   that our plane has left us for, so it's like, great.

00:11:45   I knew it was gonna happen and it's happened.

00:11:48   - Thanks Flighty for that little bit of news.

00:11:50   - Or like genuinely,

00:11:51   like before I even got on the plane at Memphis,

00:11:55   I thought, I remember I said it to Dina,

00:11:57   I was like, I just want you to know,

00:12:00   I reckon we will not make it home tomorrow.

00:12:03   And this wasn't like, and I wasn't even worried about it.

00:12:05   When we were in Tulsa, I was just calm.

00:12:08   I figured that this might happen.

00:12:10   I'm not upset about this.

00:12:11   I'm not worried.

00:12:12   I know we'll get home.

00:12:14   we'll just work it out.

00:12:15   I've done this kind of stuff before.

00:12:17   We'll just get a flight tomorrow.

00:12:18   It's like, it's fine.

00:12:20   And we leave, we arrive, and we go to the counter, right?

00:12:25   And we go speak to the airline agent,

00:12:27   and they're like, "Don't worry.

00:12:29   We will rebook you on another flight tomorrow."

00:12:33   All the same stuff, same time and all that.

00:12:36   And then I was kind of like, "Okay."

00:12:37   And they're like, "Okay."

00:12:39   I'm like, "What then?"

00:12:41   And Adina's like, "Can we get our bags?"

00:12:42   He's like, "No."

00:12:44   We're like, "What?"

00:12:45   It's like, "No, you can't get the bags."

00:12:47   I was like, "Okay, but the flight is like 24 hours from now."

00:12:52   And he's like, "Well, it would take us two hours

00:12:53   to even find your bag, so we don't give you the bag."

00:12:57   And I was like, "Okay."

00:12:59   And he was like, "Okay."

00:13:01   And I'm like, I actually said to him,

00:13:02   'cause I was pretty upset at this point,

00:13:04   are we just being released into the night?

00:13:06   What happens now?

00:13:07   (laughing)

00:13:08   And he's like, "Basically, yes."

00:13:11   - Well, welcome to Tulsa, get out of the airport.

00:13:13   - Oh no, we're in Dallas now.

00:13:15   - Oh you're right, you're in Dallas right now.

00:13:16   - We're in Dallas now.

00:13:17   And it was kind of just like,

00:13:18   oh, what it was is we'd booked through our airline,

00:13:22   our airline partners of another airline,

00:13:24   because of that, they would just give us nothing.

00:13:26   But people that were on that airline,

00:13:28   they got hotels paid for them,

00:13:31   taxis to the airport, meal vouchers.

00:13:33   But it's like, even though these airlines

00:13:35   are in the same group, they're just like,

00:13:38   you're not our customer, so off you go.

00:13:41   And it turns out they hadn't booked us on the flight.

00:13:45   It's just because Adina happened to check.

00:13:47   Like we had not been re-booked on the same flight.

00:13:49   We'd been booked on a completely different flight

00:13:51   at a completely different time, which wasn't good.

00:13:53   Like it was a flight that would have gotten us

00:13:56   in like a horrifically terrible time

00:13:58   considering now I have to like explode my calendar.

00:14:03   - Oh, right.

00:14:05   Yes, 'cause you've got all your recordings lined up

00:14:08   for when you come back. - Recordings and like,

00:14:10   Everyone's, you know, I have like people

00:14:12   that have me in their schedule, right?

00:14:15   So I've got to move everything around.

00:14:17   So I can't arrive at just like a random terrible time.

00:14:20   Like I booked the flight that I booked

00:14:22   because I could sleep a little bit on the plane

00:14:24   and then it helps me get back to life normally.

00:14:26   So if I'm gonna have to be delayed a day,

00:14:29   I want to get the same flight

00:14:31   so then I can get back at the time that I wanted

00:14:33   but just a day later and then deal with everything, right?

00:14:36   But getting a flight that gets me into London

00:14:38   like really late the evening before it's just like a terrible way for me I

00:14:42   prefer to arrive home in the morning and so like that's like a whole thing of

00:14:46   like I'm trying to arrange for everyone like can we record this day can we

00:14:50   record that day you know like that's just like a whole big mess that kind of

00:14:53   stuff right mm-hmm and then we're just like okay we have travel insurance we're

00:14:58   on our own we'll just go get a hotel and we'll deal with this later on so we get

00:15:05   to the airport the next day. We had a nice day in Dallas. We spent the day in Dallas.

00:15:09   We had a nice brunch and bought some simple clothing because we had nothing. Just like

00:15:15   nothing.

00:15:16   No bags for you.

00:15:17   And we get to the airport and can you confirm that our bags are going to be on the plane?

00:15:24   And they're like, we're going to put a request through to have your bags transferred from

00:15:28   airline A to airline B. They are airline B, right? And it's like, okay, what does that

00:15:34   It's like, oh, we just call them.

00:15:36   And I was like, okay, can we get any kind of confirmation?

00:15:39   And they're like, just check at the gate

00:15:40   when you go to check in

00:15:42   and they'll confirm that they're there.

00:15:43   It's like, okay, so do the whole thing.

00:15:45   And we get to the gate and we're like, okay, can I check?

00:15:48   Look, you know, line up at the gate and go up.

00:15:50   So can I check the bags on the plane?

00:15:53   And the lady's like,

00:15:54   I have more important things to deal with than checking this.

00:15:59   I was like, I just want to know,

00:16:01   like, can't you check it on the computer?

00:16:02   and she's like, "Nope, if it's not there,

00:16:05   you'll make a claim on the other end."

00:16:08   Just like, "What is happening right now?

00:16:10   Like, why is this going on, right?

00:16:13   Like, I know that you have a million things to do,

00:16:15   but I feel like -- I just feel like surely

00:16:19   they know the bags on the aircraft,

00:16:21   because why else do they have tracking numbers on them, right?

00:16:23   This is when I'm like, "Ah, we have air tags."

00:16:26   -Right.

00:16:27   I was wondering about that for getting your bags.

00:16:29   I was like, "Can you give the person your phone

00:16:32   to find a bag like, "Oh, it's gonna take you two hours?

00:16:34   I can do it in 10 minutes."

00:16:36   It's an air tag here. - Well, it was more that like,

00:16:37   I could open it up and say, "Where is it?"

00:16:40   And it turned out our bag was located at the gate

00:16:44   that we were at.

00:16:45   So I'm like, "All right, that seems pretty good."

00:16:48   So I wanted to see like, "Oh, when we get on the plane,

00:16:53   will it update as we're moving away from the gate

00:17:01   and sending you a message here of a screenshot that I took,

00:17:04   which was to me, absolutely hilarious,

00:17:07   which is as we have started to leave,

00:17:10   and we've taken off a little bit,

00:17:12   this image is of us like very far away from the airport

00:17:17   and the bag just at the airport, right?

00:17:20   And I was like, "Oh God."

00:17:22   And what it was is like, there was no connection.

00:17:24   Our bags were there waiting for us

00:17:26   when we got home in London,

00:17:28   which was a fantastic moment when I opened my iPhone,

00:17:31   open find my and my bag appeared in Heathrow.

00:17:34   I was like, yes, I believed in you little bag.

00:17:37   I did not believe in the airline, but I believed in you.

00:17:39   There was just something to me that was just genuinely

00:17:42   so funny about like checking my phone and being like,

00:17:46   the bags over there man.

00:17:47   (laughing)

00:17:48   - It is, it is, yeah.

00:17:50   Somehow the emoji looks extra sad,

00:17:52   like that brown suitcase emoji is like, oh, goodbye suitcase.

00:17:57   - It was just like a very funny image to me of like,

00:18:00   you're this far away from it.

00:18:02   (laughing)

00:18:03   Bye.

00:18:04   - I do have to say the AirTags are such a winner

00:18:06   for traveling. - Oh, they're fantastic.

00:18:07   - When you told me about that trick,

00:18:09   about just, oh, wait, to get the notification

00:18:11   of like, your bag is nearby,

00:18:12   instead of standing with everyone for picking up the bag.

00:18:15   It's like, that is, that alone is such a great use case

00:18:18   of like, no, no, I'll just sit down.

00:18:20   I don't need to stand around the bag carousel

00:18:23   for 30 minutes waiting.

00:18:25   Like, I'll just sit here

00:18:26   and I'll get a little notification when it's nearby.

00:18:28   It is so good.

00:18:29   - Because I had an AirTag, I ended up just like

00:18:33   telling these people like,

00:18:34   I'm not gonna bother asking questions from you anymore.

00:18:35   'Cause I could see it was at the gate.

00:18:37   So I had more confidence that it was going to be loaded

00:18:41   onto the plane because it was at our gate, right?

00:18:44   Like I could see it on the map.

00:18:46   Because otherwise I would have been like,

00:18:48   I will not accept this as an answer.

00:18:49   Like, can you at least look on your computer?

00:18:51   Like you won't even do that.

00:18:53   It was just like a really, the whole thing would just

00:18:55   ended up being like a really weird experience.

00:18:57   It was just very strange in the end.

00:18:59   The universe did play a trick on me, which I did find endlessly amusing.

00:19:03   Fate was tempted.

00:19:04   Yeah, of course. That's what happens.

00:19:05   I'm glad you got out of it unscathed, mainly.

00:19:08   I'm glad you got back home.

00:19:09   Are you over all of your knock-on calendar delays,

00:19:12   or are you still making up for that?

00:19:14   No, I ended up getting that handled by the weekend.

00:19:16   Basically, it was just a couple of things that could get cancelled,

00:19:21   got cancelled, and it allowed for the movements to occur.

00:19:24   And then we moved our show recording time,

00:19:27   which helped a lot for me because I would have been wrecked because that would have

00:19:30   been the day after we got home.

00:19:32   Right, we don't have to be polite about that.

00:19:34   We moved the show because I completely forgot.

00:19:38   I just totally blew past my brain and then my wife notified me that people were trying

00:19:45   to get in touch and those people were Myke wanting to record a podcast and I went, "Oh

00:19:50   no!"

00:19:51   I just needed to know you'd forgotten.

00:19:53   That was all.

00:19:54   Then I could go home.

00:19:57   And I had, I had forgotten.

00:19:58   I'm sorry Myke but I'm glad it worked out for you.

00:20:01   It's better for everyone.

00:20:02   I don't think I would have gotten through that recording.

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00:21:54   How is the Minix plug?

00:21:56   - It's amazing, it's powering my laptop right now.

00:21:58   - Okay.

00:21:59   - And I've ended up ordering like five more of them

00:22:02   because since I'm here in Hawaii for two months,

00:22:06   I wasn't really thinking about what that means

00:22:09   where you go, "Oh, I don't just need a charger for travel.

00:22:13   I could basically need to outfit the house

00:22:16   with chargers wherever I want them."

00:22:19   And so it's been absolutely great

00:22:21   Having a little USB-A port on it is surprisingly handy for various random things that you need.

00:22:26   So they were so good, I just ordered a bunch more and now I have them all around the place

00:22:30   where we're staying so we have chargers where we need them.

00:22:32   So this is totally my new base for like everything in the charging system will work around this

00:22:39   little device.

00:22:40   Alright I'm gonna buy one then.

00:22:41   Two thumbs up, I absolutely love it, really recommend it.

00:22:44   Best little charger I have come across in years.

00:22:47   Yeah, I know what this will fit for me.

00:22:50   it's going to replace the standard Apple charger that I bring for like my iPhone or whatever.

00:22:57   Because I'm not going to, as I mentioned before, I will keep the one, oh man what is this?

00:23:03   The 100 watt turbo. That's going to be huge though right?

00:23:07   That sounds bigger. It's physically larger but it has three USB-C

00:23:12   ports and a USB-A port on it, Gray. Ooh wow.

00:23:16   Well, well, well, Minix is spoiling us.

00:23:19   - Minix is rapidly expanding their business.

00:23:21   They've gone from what sounded like a totally sketchy,

00:23:24   who knows, manufactured, wear,

00:23:26   kind of bought off of Amazon thing.

00:23:27   - Still sounds sketchy to me.

00:23:29   I mean, this is why I didn't buy it

00:23:31   without checking that you were happy with yours so far.

00:23:34   - Right, that there was no fire hazard or anything.

00:23:36   Oh, yes, I see what you mean there.

00:23:37   Well, well, well.

00:23:39   - I will wait for the secondary review of that model,

00:23:42   but in the meantime, I'll get this little one,

00:23:44   Because I want to keep the one from my MacBook Pro.

00:23:47   Like I want to keep the official big Apple one

00:23:49   with the MagSafe and all that kind of stuff.

00:23:52   But this will help me to charge, you know,

00:23:54   as we mentioned, like the, either an iPhone,

00:23:58   honestly, we just have to do my iPhone,

00:23:59   my Apple Watch, and an iPad.

00:24:01   Like I could just have all the cables plugged in

00:24:03   and just swap them around depending on what I need.

00:24:06   So yeah, I'm gonna pick up one of those ones.

00:24:08   So I'm pleased that it's been going well for you so far.

00:24:10   - I am literally placing my order for the big one now.

00:24:13   and I will see it in April at some time because Hawaii.

00:24:20   - How has been Hawaii faring for you so far?

00:24:23   How long have you been there?

00:24:25   - How long have I been here?

00:24:26   I guess I've been here two weeks.

00:24:28   I don't know.

00:24:30   It is quite alarming.

00:24:32   I guess, oh, it's two weeks today actually

00:24:34   is how long I've been here.

00:24:35   Yeah, no, Hawaii is in many ways exactly as I remember it.

00:24:43   warm and slightly sticky all the time.

00:24:48   That's my main physical feeling about being in Hawaii.

00:24:51   And I also had completely forgotten until I stepped off the airplane that

00:24:56   Hawaii definitely has a smell. I couldn't describe it to you, but...

00:25:00   - I love the smell of Hawaii.

00:25:02   The air is sweet.

00:25:03   - It's like sweet leaves, I think is maybe the best way I would describe it.

00:25:09   But yeah, I did not have like the best of times the last time I was here and definitely felt a little triggered with that smell of like, "Oh my God!"

00:25:21   Like, you know, the way smells can just really trigger like these visceral memories.

00:25:25   It's like the door to the plane opens up right on the tarmac, as you do in Hawaii, and the air comes rushing in and it's like, "Oh!"

00:25:36   Just like all of these flashbacks were happening.

00:25:39   I'm like, "Oh right, this smell, I forgot it has the smell."

00:25:42   And my wife was going, "Oh, it smells like home."

00:25:45   Right? And like she's bursting into tears with joy.

00:25:47   And I'm like, "Ah, Hawaii, we meet again."

00:25:50   (both laughing)

00:25:53   - Oh, it's so funny to me.

00:25:55   This is one of my favorite things about you

00:25:57   is how you do not enjoy this place

00:26:00   that everybody else that I know,

00:26:02   including me is like this paradise.

00:26:04   - I know.

00:26:05   It's just something really funny about it.

00:26:07   I get it.

00:26:08   Like, I understand that it's funny.

00:26:09   This is also one of these things where it's like, I feel compelled to try to

00:26:12   explain, but I also know that my explaining is completely ineffective on everyone.

00:26:17   Everyone's like, you can't explain away this beautiful paradise, right?

00:26:21   When talking to people, I feel like I've told them, oh, I've gone on a trip to

00:26:25   heaven and I don't like it that much.

00:26:27   And people are like, what are you crazy?

00:26:28   Tropical islands, not Hawaii in particular, but just like the tropics are not a place

00:26:34   that I would choose to spend my time

00:26:37   just because I always just do feel like physically too warm

00:26:40   and too uncomfortable.

00:26:42   And I find it extra annoying

00:26:44   when everybody else is telling you like,

00:26:45   "Oh, the weather is so beautiful."

00:26:47   And it's like, I can feel this layer of sweat on my skin.

00:26:52   And like, there's only so many showers

00:26:54   that you can take in a day to try to get rid of it.

00:26:57   But everyone else, oh, it's absolutely lovely today.

00:26:59   But the main thing for me is,

00:27:03   I always know how this sounds when people say this, but there is the resort Hawaii,

00:27:09   and then there is the real Hawaii.

00:27:12   And so when I come here, I am not living on resort Hawaii.

00:27:17   I am living in the real Hawaii, which is far away from resort land.

00:27:24   And I feel like some of the things that I find difficult to deal with are greatly magnified

00:27:31   in real Hawaii and the main thing for me is like it's a place where you where you really

00:27:40   feel like you are at constant battle with nature.

00:27:45   You constantly have to think about keeping the nature out of the house and if you are

00:27:52   not eternally vigilant about that the nature will be in the house and will really ruin

00:27:58   your day.

00:27:59   Okay.

00:28:00   you can see it when you're flying into Hawaii.

00:28:02   You can see where the resorts are

00:28:04   because they actually look like islands on the islands.

00:28:07   Like, they don't look like the surrounding territory.

00:28:10   Depending on which resorts you're going to,

00:28:12   like, if it's a resort on one of the dry sides of one of the islands,

00:28:16   it's like lush and manicured.

00:28:18   And if it's a resort on one of the wet sides of the island,

00:28:21   you can also see that it just physically looks different.

00:28:24   And one of the things that is happening there

00:28:27   that the resorts maintain an army of gardeners

00:28:31   to try to keep everything nice and manicured

00:28:34   and not horrifying.

00:28:35   But if you're living somewhere

00:28:37   where you don't have an army of gardeners

00:28:39   to say, I don't know, sweep the spiders off of everything,

00:28:44   you know what you will end up with?

00:28:47   Spiders on everything.

00:28:49   - Oh, I hate it.

00:28:51   This has not been my experience.

00:28:52   - So this is why I am very happy

00:28:55   that you enjoy Hawaii when you come.

00:28:58   But like, I'm also very aware that you are staying

00:29:02   in places where they have employees whose entire job is,

00:29:07   get rid of all the spiders.

00:29:10   - I wish you'd stop saying it. - So people come back.

00:29:12   - Please stop saying, can you just say something else now

00:29:15   instead of that exact phrase?

00:29:18   But yeah, I mean, look, I know, like I am vacationing

00:29:23   when I go to this place, right?

00:29:24   You are, and this is like, I've been in places in Europe where it's like this,

00:29:29   wherever there is like resorts by the beach or whatever, it's totally different.

00:29:34   Stop sending me images.

00:29:36   Stop it.

00:29:38   I'm getting all these notifications and all I can see is spider webs.

00:29:44   I'm not into this.

00:29:45   Stop that.

00:29:46   This is cyberbullying what you're doing to me right now.

00:29:49   Here's the thing.

00:29:50   I just needed to send Myke two images and I needed to send these, like,

00:29:54   for my own sanity because people don't believe me when I say, "I will not leave

00:30:00   the house if the sun is not up."

00:30:04   Like that's just the rule.

00:30:05   I am not going outside when the sun is not up because you

00:30:10   cannot see what is out there.

00:30:12   And so when I say a phrase like, "Oh, I'm in Hawaii," and people go, "That's lovely."

00:30:18   You say, "Yes, I am in the real Hawaii, the very, very rural Hawaii that is very far away from any of these resorts,

00:30:28   and the building is covered in spiders."

00:30:31   And people go, "Oh, you must be exaggerating!"

00:30:34   And it's like, "No, no, no. I have taken photos. The photos that I have taken-"

00:30:38   - I can now agree with what you said, 'cause I did look.

00:30:41   I felt like you sent me, though, I needed to look, right?

00:30:44   'cause there is the point here, you're trying to get someone to advocate for you here

00:30:48   and I can now advocate for what Grey has just said.

00:30:51   People don't understand what it means when I say "covered in spiders"

00:30:56   and it's like, those photos that I have sent you,

00:30:58   I only took those because those are the ones where you can

00:31:01   clearly see the web against the sky,

00:31:04   but the whole building is covered in spiders, right?

00:31:07   Please!

00:31:09   We get it now!

00:31:11   [laughter]

00:31:13   Killing me.

00:31:14   [laughter]

00:31:16   Right?

00:31:16   But like--

00:31:17   But so this is my own permanent torture though,

00:31:19   is because since my wife grew up here, right?

00:31:21   She's a local girl.

00:31:23   She's just totally oblivious to all of these things

00:31:26   that are like my constant nightmare.

00:31:28   And I made some comment about the spiders and she's like,

00:31:30   "Oh, I guess there are some spiders."

00:31:32   It's like, yeah.

00:31:33   [laughter]

00:31:34   It's like more than I've seen in my entire life,

00:31:39   like, on this building.

00:31:41   [laughs]

00:31:42   - I think some of the stuff that you're saying,

00:31:44   anybody that has a partner who grew up

00:31:48   in a different place to them can understand.

00:31:51   - Oh yes, Myke?

00:31:52   - The problem for you is your partner grew up

00:31:57   in a place that is universally known as a paradise.

00:32:01   That's your issue, right?

00:32:04   And it's like, well, of course she doesn't live in that part, right?

00:32:09   Like, 'cause nobody does. No one lives in the resort towns.

00:32:13   Nobody lives there. Everyone travels in to the resort towns, works in the resorts, and leaves.

00:32:20   Yeah, that's exactly what her parents do. Like, they commute into the resort,

00:32:24   they do their resort-related jobs, and then they commute back.

00:32:27   And yeah, like, the resorts are just a totally different sort of space

00:32:32   than the whole rest of the island.

00:32:33   So I have this funny feeling of like, I've been trying to explain this thing where I'm thinking about like neural nets that are used to identify images, right?

00:32:44   Like iPhoto does. This is a dog. This is a person's face. Even the cool stuff they're doing in maps, like this is this exact building. You train neural nets to recognize objects and images.

00:32:55   Without a doubt, some very significant portion of my brain has been set aside now to train

00:33:03   constantly on recognize the slight shimmer in the sunlight of a spider web between any

00:33:12   two objects that are closer than eight feet together.

00:33:15   When I say any two objects that are closer than eight feet together, I mean any two trees.

00:33:22   Keep in mind, this is a tropical jungle on one side of the house.

00:33:28   Any two buildings, like, there is without a doubt some part of my brain which is hyper-alert

00:33:34   to like, exactly the way a spider strand will look in the sunlight, and now like, I've

00:33:41   never thought about how many objects are closer than eight feet together, and now I can identify

00:33:46   every single one of them as I'm walking around, because like 30% of my brain is devoted

00:33:50   to this task of, don't walk into one of these webs

00:33:55   that feel like they're made of steel

00:33:57   and have a spider the size of your fist

00:34:00   in the center of them.

00:34:02   That is a bad day. Why do you have to keep

00:34:03   describing this in front?

00:34:05   You didn't need that part, you know?

00:34:07   All I wanna say-- 'Cause people don't

00:34:08   believe me! To cortexes,

00:34:11   look, everyone believes you now, all right?

00:34:13   Cortexes, if you are uncontrollably itching right now,

00:34:16   know that I'm with you, right?

00:34:18   This is not what I want at the moment.

00:34:21   But as you have heard me multiple times, I cannot get him to stop.

00:34:26   Okay.

00:34:28   Okay.

00:34:29   But listen, all right.

00:34:30   I'll stop with the spiders, right?

00:34:31   Because my wife, none of her family, none of the local, nobody even mentions the

00:34:37   spiders whenever I ever mentioned them, they're like, oh, I guess there's a lot

00:34:39   of it was like, don't, they don't even see them because what they're concerned

00:34:43   with are the centipedes, right?

00:34:46   Which is also extremely alarming.

00:34:49   All of this, now, we can just--

00:34:52   let's just go back to calling this the nature.

00:34:56   The nature, right.

00:34:57   I preferred that.

00:35:00   I feel like I entered--

00:35:01   I go, what could you mean?

00:35:03   I wish I would never have done that.

00:35:05   Right.

00:35:05   Well, I have definitely had to kill three of the natures,

00:35:11   then that were longer and thicker than my fingers in the house, which were just

00:35:15   waiting to bite me with their hundred nature legs.

00:35:20   And it's so alarming when people are like, "Oh, this is what the

00:35:24   natives are worried about.

00:35:25   They're worried about all of these centipedes."

00:35:26   They're like, "Oh my God, please don't let one of them bite me."

00:35:29   But I just know, I just know that I'm destined to this.

00:35:33   What happens if they bite you?

00:35:35   Like, is that bad?

00:35:36   So here's, here's the thing.

00:35:37   From my perspective, there's so much to worry about here.

00:35:41   Like, we haven't even discussed the jellyfish, but at least I can avoid them,

00:35:44   'cause it's like, "Well, I'm just not going in the ocean."

00:35:45   Jellyfish I'm good to talk about, they don't creep me out.

00:35:47   But that's avoidable, right? You go, "Oh, the sea, it's filled with Lovecraftian monsters.

00:35:54   Well, you know, just don't go in there. Great, problem solved."

00:35:57   Well, the way to avoid the spiders and the centipedes is just to go in the sea.

00:36:01   [laughter]

00:36:03   That's how you do that.

00:36:05   Go in the sea, and there's none in there.

00:36:07   [laughter]

00:36:10   Yeah, that's... Oh my god.

00:36:13   Or the ocean, I should say, right?

00:36:15   Yeah, yeah, no, it's not the sea.

00:36:17   What is... Wait, hold on a second. I have to just...

00:36:18   My sister-in-law was just telling me about some other thing

00:36:22   that I'd never even heard of in the ocean last night.

00:36:25   Oh yeah, they're called nudibranchs?

00:36:29   But it's like... Oh, yeah, I know.

00:36:31   It's N-U-D-I-B-R-A-N-C-H.

00:36:35   They're these like...

00:36:36   Sea slug.

00:36:36   Mollusks, yeah.

00:36:38   but there are a specific branch of them that are hyper-colored

00:36:42   because, as you know, when something in nature has lots of bright colors,

00:36:47   it means it can hurt you quite a lot.

00:36:50   And she was just like, "Oh yeah, I was swimming in the ocean

00:36:52   and a bunch of these things just went by, and oh,

00:36:56   they eat Portuguese Man of Wars and collect all of the poison in their horns,

00:37:01   so I made sure not to touch them."

00:37:03   And I was like, "Oh my god!"

00:37:04   So everyone I know, they're unconcerned about everything

00:37:07   except the centipedes and they're like,

00:37:09   "Oh, you really don't want a centipede to bite you."

00:37:12   It's like, oh my god, right?

00:37:13   So it just makes it a hundred times more alarming.

00:37:16   From my perspective, everything is horrifying,

00:37:19   but there's the one thing that people

00:37:20   are really worried about.

00:37:21   And we've already had to get rid of a few of them

00:37:24   in the house.

00:37:24   - Can we talk about jellyfish now?

00:37:26   (laughs)

00:37:27   I would like to talk about jellyfish instead.

00:37:30   - But so like, this is what I mean.

00:37:31   This is what I mean by like, the nature

00:37:33   and when you're in a place where it,

00:37:36   It really is. It's just a tropical jungle on--

00:37:38   well, where we are it's slightly complicated, but there's like a jungle on one side

00:37:42   and all of the things in the jungle want to come out and get you.

00:37:45   So there's the big obvious stuff to worry about.

00:37:49   There's the small constant annoyance of being like

00:37:52   just a little too warm and a little too sweaty.

00:37:56   And then on the very mild side of the nature, but just like stuff I never normally have to think about is

00:38:03   you just can't leave any kind of food out for any length of time.

00:38:09   And that means you can't throw food into the garbage,

00:38:13   like, which is something I just never think about in London.

00:38:16   It's like, "Oh no, you can't just throw these shavings

00:38:20   from this cooked meal into the garbage,

00:38:23   because it will be a hive of ants in the morning."

00:38:26   And it's like, so there's just so many things I feel like

00:38:29   you have to constantly be really aware of.

00:38:33   Is there big nature?

00:38:34   Uh, I mean, well, there are the cows. The cows I love.

00:38:36   The cows get two thumbs up from me.

00:38:38   Cows are not a problem like that, really.

00:38:40   Yeah, the cows are fine.

00:38:41   Yeah, because I guess there aren't predators.

00:38:44   There's no bears.

00:38:45   We do have, like, there's mungese around, so we've seen a few of them.

00:38:49   There's wild pigs that can get real ornery if you're in their way.

00:38:54   But, you know, most of that stuff is fine.

00:38:56   Like, the bigger stuff, the bigger stuff I feel like, at least like,

00:38:59   "Okay, fellow mammal, I have some concept of you, you know, it would be unpleasant to get into a tussle, right, but it wouldn't be like,

00:39:11   "Oh, Shelob's many eyes are upon you in the jungle and you don't even know when she's reaching out her pincers to bite you."

00:39:20   - Don't like give me some Lord of the Rings thing or some nonsense and think I don't know what you're talking about, alright?

00:39:26   I can give you a lulth reference instead if you would prefer that, but yes.

00:39:30   Because I don't know what that is.

00:39:31   But yeah, so like there's big stuff that's around, but it's all like,

00:39:35   it's all the arthropods, right? That's the whole family of great concern here, is like,

00:39:41   all of those sorts of creatures. As I also just discovered last night,

00:39:45   there's also scorpions on Hawaii, but I've never actually run across one of those.

00:39:49   I didn't know they had those here, but that I can also add to the list.

00:39:52   If you ran across one of those, you'd know. It would let you know.

00:39:55   Well, this came up in conversation because I was reading the Wikipedia article about centipedes.

00:40:00   And I was like, "Well, how much is it gonna hurt Wikipedia? Like, give it to me straight."

00:40:04   So Wikipedia goes, "Oh, it hurts as much as a scorpion."

00:40:07   I was like, "Oh, okay."

00:40:08   Whoa! Okay.

00:40:10   Well, I have no frame of reference for how much a scorpion hurts.

00:40:12   Neither do I. I just imagine it's a lot.

00:40:15   Yeah. They look mean, so I assume it's a lot too.

00:40:18   And then Wikipedia's other frame of reference was "scorpion or a snake bite."

00:40:24   And I'm like, "Okay, that is definitely bad news."

00:40:28   That is way harsher than I would have expected from the old centipede there.

00:40:33   Yeah, but that's why it makes sense that people are like,

00:40:37   "You really don't want to get stung by the centipedes."

00:40:41   And they come out at night.

00:40:43   And so I guess I can summarize all of this in that

00:40:48   my perspective on Hawaii is it's the kind of place where

00:40:53   You really just don't want to sit on a toilet without thoroughly inspecting it first, for many reasons.

00:41:02   Do you think we have anybody listening to the show anymore?

00:41:05   Do you think there's anyone left?

00:41:07   It's like, I can't get away from it.

00:41:10   Outside of me, is anybody else still listening? I don't know.

00:41:14   I do—like, Myke, I genuinely—I feel bad for you because you are my captive recipient of someone who will listen.

00:41:22   because no one will listen to me here.

00:41:24   [laughter]

00:41:25   -Hey, look, it's making me incredibly uncomfortable,

00:41:28   but I feel like you need this, so I will provide this to you.

00:41:31   [laughter]

00:41:32   -Yeah.

00:41:33   I mean, to be fair, it is beautiful if in a real, like,

00:41:37   "nature doesn't love her children" kind of way

00:41:40   and don't think about the abyss of the ocean,

00:41:42   but it is beautiful.

00:41:44   Even when there's storms, then there's gorgeous rainbows,

00:41:47   they are the Hawaiian Islands.

00:41:49   Like, I understand the environment that I'm in.

00:41:52   No, I feel like this is your counter-attack to anybody that ever says to you,

00:41:56   "Why don't you love Hawaii?"

00:41:57   And I know I have been one of these people, so...

00:42:00   I am now... I've now got my penance for that.

00:42:03   Yeah. Again, there's like this funny distinction between the real Hawaii and the resort Hawaii, and...

00:42:08   I think one of the other funny things that people just don't think about is how incredibly rural most of the islands are.

00:42:16   Because again, like when you're driving around, you're in the resorts.

00:42:20   So there's like a bunch of people there.

00:42:22   Or you're in the areas that are just, there's nothing here but it's beautiful, right?

00:42:26   So you're in the lava areas.

00:42:28   Then if you drive into the parts where you're like,

00:42:30   "Oh, I'm passing through a small town."

00:42:32   And you sort of think in your head that the town is bigger than it is.

00:42:38   Because what you don't realize is all of the houses in the town are on this road

00:42:43   because there's just not very many roads.

00:42:47   So I'm currently in one of those small towns on the island

00:42:50   where someone could drive through and go like,

00:42:52   "Oh, it's a town!"

00:42:53   And I would go like, "No, no, no,

00:42:55   you've seen all the houses on the street.

00:42:58   This is the entirety of it.

00:43:00   Like, it's not any bigger than this."

00:43:02   And so on one side is the jungle,

00:43:05   and then on the opposite side from where we are

00:43:07   is just an enormous amount of rural agricultural land,

00:43:13   just cattle grazing as far as the eye can see.

00:43:16   People are always quite shocked to discover that I think it's in the top three largest,

00:43:21   but like one of the three largest cattle ranches in America is in Hawaii.

00:43:27   And it's like, we're not near that one, but it's like, man, if you exclude Oahu,

00:43:33   it's like, Hawaii's got two things.

00:43:36   They've got resorts, and they've got endless agriculture of all kinds all over the place.

00:43:43   A wahoo is where Honolulu is, right?

00:43:45   Yeah, that's why I'm saying you exclude Oahu, because it's Honolulu and it's also the military bases.

00:43:49   So there's obviously a lot of economic activity there.

00:43:53   But if you take out the island of Oahu, the rest of the state is very, very rural, very, very low population density.

00:44:00   It's a funny experience, especially exactly where we are, with the jungle on one side,

00:44:05   but then on the opposite side it's just ranch land?

00:44:08   It's very weird. If I look out the back, it looks like I'm in one place,

00:44:12   and if I look out the front, it looks like I'm in a completely other place.

00:44:15   But as far as the big animals go, my wife and I have basically adopted some of the cows who swing by.

00:44:22   Any good names?

00:44:23   Yeah, well, I think I've told you this memorization system to help you memorize words and numbers,

00:44:30   where you can translate numbers into words and words into numbers based on sounds.

00:44:35   So all of the cows have like a numbered tag on their ear.

00:44:38   And so I've been using the numbered tags to come up with names for the different cows.

00:44:43   That's what we've been doing. But yes, I don't know.

00:44:44   There's like a couple dozen who come around regularly now because they know that

00:44:49   we're the suckers who will give them convenient water to drink and lemons to eat.

00:44:53   And then we get to know the cows.

00:44:55   And so that's one of the things I've been doing during the days.

00:44:59   And again, not today because it's too windy, but normally in my office,

00:45:03   My window looks right like six feet away right into where all the cows are and if they see me

00:45:10   here and they are out of water they will moo at me until I go get them some water which is adorable

00:45:15   and I don't mind doing it so I might need to take a break from the podcast to do that.

00:45:18   See how you feel about that in six weeks. We'll find out. I guess they have to make it through

00:45:23   the wind. How desperately do they want the water?

00:45:27   I predict in six weeks I will still be very happy to water the cows.

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00:47:46   So you mentioned the office, how are you maintaining a work schedule?

00:47:51   How successful have you been so far?

00:47:53   Yeah, well, so far I would say moderately successful, but that is largely down to just

00:48:00   the first week is the terrible time zone shift.

00:48:03   The way things are working right now, you know what I need to cl- I've got the Wikipedia

00:48:07   article for a new to branches open on my computer, I need to just stop looking at that and close

00:48:11   that.

00:48:12   I don't think you should be looking at any Wikipedia articles for these things, to be

00:48:15   honest.

00:48:16   Let me close this map of Hawaii.

00:48:18   Let me close this spider pictures.

00:48:20   - Why is your map open again?

00:48:20   Why do you keep doing this?

00:48:22   It just keeps opening.

00:48:24   - Let me close the spider pictures.

00:48:28   Let me get rid of the question of how do you rate

00:48:31   insect pain?

00:48:32   Get rid of all of these things and just talk to you

00:48:34   like a normal person.

00:48:35   - Oh look, your cursor just popped back up

00:48:37   in Google Books again.

00:48:38   So you've stepped back into the podcast.

00:48:41   - Yeah, it's interesting.

00:48:46   Because I'm here for just so long, like it is really important to me to try to

00:48:50   establish some kind of work schedule.

00:48:52   And so also since we're living with family, like currently it's not full,

00:48:56   but when the house is full, I think.

00:48:59   Oh God, I'd have to double check the whole rota that's been made, but I

00:49:02   think we're going to have eight family members living with us at once.

00:49:07   So it's like a house full of people and nature.

00:49:11   So lots of living creatures in the house.

00:49:14   But what I have worked out, which has gone well this week, is I've set a rule.

00:49:21   I'm making sure everyone in the family understands this ironclad rule.

00:49:26   The rule is, gray is not to be disturbed before 1pm.

00:49:32   It doesn't matter what it is, if there's a problem with the chickens,

00:49:39   If there is any kind of other business going on, doesn't matter.

00:49:45   Grey has an office here, he will be in that room, and that room will not be disturbed until 1pm.

00:49:54   If he exits the room, and he's wearing his big headphones on, he will be trying very hard to pay no attention to whatever may be happening outside.

00:50:02   He's just getting some coffee and going back, and please don't interact with him.

00:50:07   - It's like everyone's got a chair and they're aiming it at one of the nature in the middle of the room.

00:50:12   Like, "I don't wanna know!"

00:50:13   - "I don't wanna know!" Right? Like, look!

00:50:16   One of the cows has escaped? I don't know, right?

00:50:21   This has been, like, a giant jar of honey spilled? Whatever!

00:50:24   I don't need to know about any of this.

00:50:27   And I have to say, everyone's been very good so far.

00:50:30   I'm still waiting until the maximum number of people are here.

00:50:33   But so far the rule has held well for week two of working.

00:50:37   Cool.

00:50:37   And my feeling on this was basically, again, this is a trip to see family, but I also

00:50:43   simply cannot take two weeks to just like not work at all.

00:50:48   That's like, it's just way too long of a time.

00:50:51   So I feel like this is a good use of the 80/20 rule of I would get 80% of my work done before

00:50:59   1pm anyway, and so then it's like, okay, I'm available in the afternoons and I'm around

00:51:05   for other family stuff, and I have gotten the best 80% of the work done, and then I

00:51:10   can also be there.

00:51:11   You're just not gonna do the other 20, right?

00:51:13   Yeah, exactly.

00:51:14   You're just not gonna do it.

00:51:15   Like, I know that there's like things that we normally do, like we might have some Cortex

00:51:19   brand meetings or whatever and we're just like postponing them or like squeezing them

00:51:23   into our calls here.

00:51:24   Yeah, exactly.

00:51:25   There's this deep, the parts that can be condensed,

00:51:29   just condense them.

00:51:31   - Yes, exactly.

00:51:32   - Yeah, that's somewhat similar to when I was out in Memphis

00:51:37   and was just trying to remove as many things

00:51:41   that can be removed and then just have other stuff,

00:51:43   just I'll deal with it when I get home again.

00:51:46   So it's a very similar idea.

00:51:49   Thinking of it as like the 80/20

00:51:51   is actually a really nice way to put it.

00:51:53   where it's like there is stuff in my work day

00:51:56   that I'll get to every day that either A,

00:51:58   doesn't need to necessarily be done, but I'm doing it.

00:52:01   Or B is like the time that I don't track, right?

00:52:05   Where like, you know, I've been at the studio today.

00:52:09   It's a half past 10 now.

00:52:11   I've been here for 10 hours.

00:52:14   And up to now I have tracked five and a half hours

00:52:18   of work time because I was hanging out.

00:52:21   - Yeah. - And I don't track that.

00:52:22   or I'm just like, I'm on social media or I'm doing,

00:52:27   you know, like it's not like I'm just doing stuff

00:52:29   and I just don't track it, right?

00:52:31   But like that kind of stuff falls into my work day every day

00:52:34   where it's like, I'm checking email,

00:52:36   but like not really getting into it

00:52:39   or like maybe I'm having a call

00:52:41   or maybe I'm talking to somebody over Slack

00:52:43   or maybe I'm reading something or like,

00:52:45   but like it's not like work work.

00:52:47   And so I might have like an hour or two of that a day

00:52:50   or most days, but like the reason

00:52:52   There's way more of it today because we've started recording so late, right?

00:52:56   Like I would have gone home, you know, like I wouldn't have stuck around.

00:52:59   But it's more to the point of like, I can have these stretches in the day every day

00:53:03   where it's like, there's just busy work happening.

00:53:06   I don't really track like, because I kind of track when I'm actively working on a project.

00:53:12   And I can, when I'm traveling, I can just take those hours out of the day.

00:53:16   Yeah.

00:53:17   I'm also thinking of the 80/20 rule in the reverse.

00:53:20   again, I am doing a bunch of traveling this year and one of my real targets for like,

00:53:26   what consistently causes me problems is not being able to work well while traveling.

00:53:32   So I feel like this is one of my little sub goals for the year of I really want to try

00:53:36   to actually be able to consistently get some work done while traveling instead of no work

00:53:43   done.

00:53:45   And so that's why I'm thinking about in Hawaii, I'm aiming for this, oh, I should be able

00:53:49   to get 80% of the work done before 1pm.

00:53:52   But I also think for some of the other trips that I'm going to be doing, it's actually

00:53:55   useful to think about the reverse of like, 20% of your work is also the 80% most important.

00:54:03   And so for busier travel periods, it's like, if I could just keep doing, not trying to

00:54:09   hit 80% of my work, but only trying to hit 20% of the work, but actually hitting the

00:54:15   the most important things, I would still consider that like a great improvement compared to

00:54:20   traveling that I've done in the past.

00:54:22   That was actually the way I was thinking about it.

00:54:24   Of like the importance, not the amount.

00:54:27   Yeah.

00:54:28   Yeah.

00:54:29   It's like, it's just a useful metric to kind of think in both ways and just always

00:54:35   be aware of this kind of stuff.

00:54:37   For some of my future traveling things, I'm really going to be aiming more towards like,

00:54:41   if I can just have two solid hours a day of writing

00:54:46   while I'm still traveling,

00:54:48   like that would be like such an improvement

00:54:50   over zero hours of quality writing while traveling.

00:54:54   So that's kind of what I'm aiming

00:54:55   for some of the other stuff.

00:54:56   - 'Cause I think me and you from a travel perspective,

00:54:58   we're coming at this slightly differently, right?

00:55:00   'Cause I know for you,

00:55:02   you just figure when you're traveling,

00:55:03   you won't have as much time to be uninterrupted.

00:55:06   So you want to focus on it.

00:55:07   And if you're going to be expecting to travel more,

00:55:10   you need to get used to that.

00:55:11   where for me, I'm expecting to travel less.

00:55:15   So when I am traveling,

00:55:17   I want to make the most of the travel.

00:55:20   So therefore, I wanna give up

00:55:22   the least amount of time possible, right?

00:55:26   I don't wanna give up hours and hours every day

00:55:29   to do this stuff, right?

00:55:31   Like to do whatever it is I've got to do for work.

00:55:33   So I'm trying to maximize time when traveling

00:55:36   because I am actively attempting to do less of it.

00:55:39   - Yeah, for sure.

00:55:40   I don't know, just thinking about the upcoming year, I do have more travel planned and all

00:55:45   of my Hawaii complaints aside, it does feel like, "Oh, it's really nice to have experiences

00:55:52   again."

00:55:53   - Yeah, definitely.

00:55:54   - You know, I visited my parents earlier and that felt like a real trial run for, "Hey,

00:56:01   is it fine to travel again at all?" and like that went fine.

00:56:06   And now this trip to Hawaii, I was like, "Boy, have I experienced things!"

00:56:11   And it's just, it's nice.

00:56:13   It's nice to have that again.

00:56:15   And so, as dumb as it sounds, there is a little bit of mentally reworking like, "Oh, okay,

00:56:19   I've got to think about mixing work with experiences that happen out in the world because you're

00:56:28   doing things."

00:56:29   It's like, "Oh, I went to the movies with family yesterday."

00:56:35   I was like, "Oh, right, that's an experience that I haven't had in a really long time."

00:56:40   I didn't want to go to the movies, I thought I would never have to do that again after COVID,

00:56:45   but it's like, "Hey, it was still great to do something."

00:56:48   So yeah, it's just nice to have that, but I am being aware of thinking about how to make sure

00:56:52   I keep up with the work over the course of the upcoming year with all of that stuff.

00:56:56   - Yeah, when we were in Memphis, we went to a movie and we went to a basketball game,

00:57:00   it's like, "Oh my god, these are like events."

00:57:03   - Right!

00:57:04   These are like things to do.

00:57:06   It's pretty cool actually.

00:57:07   So when I get bit by a centipede, that'll be a new experience too.

00:57:11   So how'd it go with seeing Stephen in Memphis?

00:57:14   I haven't actually heard anything about this trip.

00:57:16   It was so good, man.

00:57:17   Yeah?

00:57:17   Yeah, it was really great.

00:57:18   I mean, just from a personal level was just really important, you know, like

00:57:22   I hadn't seen him in so long and it just felt really good for our friendship

00:57:26   to spend time together because we've just been coworkers mostly

00:57:32   for the last couple of years

00:57:33   and we haven't actually had that time together.

00:57:35   And I don't think it was something that I'd realized.

00:57:38   We'd gotten so deep in work, right?

00:57:40   That I think we needed to have that time together

00:57:43   to like have a friendship time too, you know?

00:57:48   So that was nice.

00:57:49   I enjoyed that.

00:57:50   That was my favorite part of the whole trip.

00:57:52   And we didn't really do much work.

00:57:54   I think at one point he was like,

00:57:55   "We haven't really done any work."

00:57:56   And I'm like, "I don't wanna."

00:57:57   You know?

00:57:58   It was just like, I'm just enjoying this.

00:58:01   I mean, plus the start of the week,

00:58:02   there was an Apple event.

00:58:03   So that was like a whole thing we had to deal with.

00:58:05   But that was fun though, actually.

00:58:07   Like we watched the event together,

00:58:09   did a couple of shows together about it.

00:58:11   Like that was a whole fun thing.

00:58:12   From a work perspective, it did remind me

00:58:16   of something that I do consider important for me,

00:58:19   which is in-person meetings.

00:58:21   They don't always need to be that way,

00:58:24   but there's gonna be a few things every year

00:58:27   where being able to meet with a person I work with

00:58:31   to talk about big stuff is important.

00:58:34   Being able to do big picture things, for me,

00:58:37   having time together really helps.

00:58:41   You can be more focused

00:58:42   because you're in front of each other,

00:58:44   less distracted by things that are going on.

00:58:46   And it's like an extended period of time

00:58:49   that you can spend with someone.

00:58:50   So you have the ability to let your brain, I think,

00:58:53   work through bigger things,

00:58:55   or an idea pops into your head

00:58:57   and you can just share it in that moment

00:58:59   because that person's there.

00:59:00   You know, this is something me and Steven had always done,

00:59:03   was get together at least once a year

00:59:05   and just focus on this kind of stuff,

00:59:06   like bigger picture stuff.

00:59:07   We've had a couple of things

00:59:09   that we've been kind of bubbling around for a while,

00:59:11   some areas that we wanna put more focus in.

00:59:14   And it kind of wasn't until we got together

00:59:17   that we realized two kind of key parts about it,

00:59:20   that one, these two things are actually really connected

00:59:23   in a way that we hadn't considered.

00:59:24   and also that we should probably hire someone to do it.

00:59:29   And so we just hadn't thought of this at all.

00:59:32   It was like, oh, okay,

00:59:33   we'll just work this out together, right?

00:59:35   Like we'll just find a way to do it.

00:59:36   We'll fit it into what we're already doing

00:59:39   and realizing that no,

00:59:40   maybe we need someone who's actually got skills.

00:59:42   So we're still working out the details.

00:59:45   We're a small company adding people in,

00:59:48   even on like part-time, you know, even as contract basis,

00:59:52   we stuff we have to work out, right?

00:59:54   like how are we gonna make that work, et cetera, et cetera.

00:59:57   But it's sometime in 2022,

00:59:59   I think we're gonna expand the team again.

01:00:01   We wouldn't have come to this without having spent

01:00:05   like an afternoon, just the two of us,

01:00:08   just talking about the business.

01:00:10   Because we have a meeting every Monday

01:00:12   where we talk about things.

01:00:14   And we had a meeting like a call a month or two ago,

01:00:17   which was like our goals for the year call.

01:00:20   And we like went through it all.

01:00:23   and we spoke about the things that we wanted to change as a company

01:00:26   and we spoke about these areas we wanted to improve upon

01:00:29   and didn't cross our mind that maybe we should hire someone for it, you know?

01:00:35   I am the world's most resistant person to this idea

01:00:39   but this whole time has actually really demonstrated the value of in-person meetings

01:00:46   like it is just different

01:00:49   it's fundamentally different to be in a room and talk with someone

01:00:52   Like, I'm doubtful of the way that many companies pitch this as like,

01:00:59   "Oh, the magic happens in this meeting, like we can have a great meeting and get everyone together."

01:01:04   But it really is important to actually just spend time in person with someone.

01:01:10   It sounds dumb, it's almost shocking how different it is.

01:01:13   Well, the problem is, is like, a lot of companies, they oversell it as a thing that is every day.

01:01:18   - Yes, yeah. - That like,

01:01:19   us being together every day,

01:01:21   having every meeting in person

01:01:22   is the only way work gets done, and that's just not true.

01:01:26   But there are maybe big things, big picture things,

01:01:30   for some people it will help them to be in the same place.

01:01:34   And I know that it is that way for me.

01:01:36   And me and you have it, right?

01:01:38   Like, whenever we meet up for lunch or whatever,

01:01:41   we talk about business, we always end up in places

01:01:43   that we never would end up in

01:01:45   if we're just sitting and talking.

01:01:46   - Yeah, it's completely different.

01:01:48   One of the things that's nice about in-person, especially over a length of time, like an entire afternoon or a couple of days,

01:01:54   is you can more naturally do the thing where you sort of mention an idea and then circle back to it later in the conversation a couple times and develop.

01:02:05   It's just, I don't know, it's just harder to do that in a call or especially with FaceTime.

01:02:11   It just, I don't know, it feels like somehow there always has to be like, "This is the topic that we're discussing now."

01:02:16   and where slightly taking turns, each person, you know, especially with like the delays over

01:02:23   Zoom calls, it's like each person sort of has to monologue for a minute and be like,

01:02:28   "I am the person talking now," and then the next person talks. And it just makes it harder to like

01:02:34   bring back up things in a way where it feels like, "Oh, we're developing this idea each time it flows

01:02:41   back into the conversation over the course of an afternoon or over the course of a week." Yeah,

01:02:45   It's surprising how valuable that is to do.

01:02:48   - You know, I do have this feeling like audio calls can be difficult

01:02:51   because it's too easy to get distracted.

01:02:53   I think video calls are complicated.

01:02:56   I saw somebody say this once, I don't know if there's truth to it, but I believe it.

01:02:59   That like the preview of yourself makes you feel like you're performing.

01:03:04   - Oh yeah, yeah, no, the preview of yourself is awful.

01:03:06   I really think it makes the calls so much worse.

01:03:09   - Because you can see you.

01:03:11   And so like you're trying to like talk to the person

01:03:14   but also not look stupid.

01:03:17   I don't know, right?

01:03:17   Like, but this is like a thing that we don't normally have in regular conversation.

01:03:21   Like it would be super weird.

01:03:22   Like, you know, if I was talking to you and you put a little mirror on the desk.

01:03:25   I would just like to see how my face looks while I'm talking to you.

01:03:28   Do you mind if I put this mirror next to you?

01:03:29   Well, if you put it and aimed it at me, right?

01:03:32   Like, you know, like here you go, while you're talking to me, there's this, this,

01:03:36   this little version of you just in the corner.

01:03:38   It would be completely bizarre.

01:03:40   and I think it's just impossible for monkeys not to then think about themselves in the background constantly

01:03:47   when they're looking at themselves in that way.

01:03:49   It doesn't matter who you are, it's just completely impossible.

01:03:53   And it is funny with some people who I do FaceTime with,

01:03:57   they're definitely way more on the extreme of unable to look away from their own image.

01:04:03   And it's very funny, there's a couple of people where I FaceTime, it's like,

01:04:05   "I know that you're just looking at the photo of you 100% of the time."

01:04:09   Like, I can see that you're doing it.

01:04:11   It's very funny.

01:04:12   I don't know why we're doing this as a FaceTime call.

01:04:15   For a bunch of reasons, FaceTime is just more exhausting.

01:04:21   Like, I way prefer an audio call over a FaceTime call for these sorts of things.

01:04:26   Cause I just think the FaceTime stuff is really exhausting in a way that an audio

01:04:30   call isn't, but they're both not as good.

01:04:33   It is just actually being in the same room with a person.

01:04:36   Yep.

01:04:37   I agree completely.

01:04:38   But I'm really glad that you got to go to Memphis and that you guys finally got your co-founder time together.

01:04:43   Like that was just so overdue and I'm glad to hear that some things will come out of it.

01:04:47   [BEEP]

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01:06:41   It is impossible for me to describe how much I hate email. Not just e- like it is the terrible

01:06:49   email that I get and how impossible it is for me to escape from it because of my job.

01:06:56   You're tied to the wheel.

01:06:57   I want to give you an idea of what I'm talking about here, right?

01:07:00   So on any given day, I could get like say 50 to 60 emails, right?

01:07:06   All right.

01:07:06   This is not including junk mail or whatever, right?

01:07:11   This is like 50 to 60 emails that hit my inbox.

01:07:14   So like emails written by a person to you in particular, that's what you're talking about.

01:07:20   Asterisk, but yes.

01:07:22   Okay.

01:07:23   The problem with these emails is around 25% of these emails are PR pitches and sales pitches

01:07:33   that I never want anything to deal with, ever.

01:07:37   Right.

01:07:38   Okay.

01:07:39   These are people that have gotten my email address from scraping the Apple Podcast Directory or something.

01:07:46   And they're like, "This person would be great for your podcast."

01:07:51   Right.

01:07:51   "Hey Myke and Gray!"

01:07:53   "Wouldn't you love to interview person?"

01:07:55   "They would be a fantastic guest for you."

01:07:57   Right.

01:07:58   And it's like, not only discounting the fact that you haven't even done the minimum amount of research gathering

01:08:05   to realize that we have never had a guest on the show.

01:08:09   But like that is giving too much credit to these people, right?

01:08:12   Because they don't care.

01:08:14   Like it's not, they're just scraping and they're just sending these emails out.

01:08:17   Like a bunch of them are like just terrible sales pitches

01:08:21   for things that I don't want.

01:08:22   Like I had a company email me today that wants to do like, um, invoice financing.

01:08:29   Are you familiar with this idea?

01:08:31   Like, I don't know what that is.

01:08:32   So they would sit between us and our sponsors.

01:08:36   Okay.

01:08:36   they would pay us immediately and then chase the sponsors.

01:08:40   - Oh, okay.

01:08:41   - But then they take like 10% of the money.

01:08:43   And it's like, this is a company set up

01:08:45   specifically to do this for podcasting.

01:08:47   It's like, why does this company exist, right?

01:08:50   Like, there's such a niche, like why do,

01:08:53   who needs that, you know?

01:08:55   Like, I just start nonsense like this, I get all the time.

01:08:59   - I'm shocked that that can even exist as a viable business.

01:09:02   - I know, right?

01:09:03   Like the business isn't big enough to start with.

01:09:05   the amount of companies that are actually invoicing anyone

01:09:08   is getting increasingly smaller.

01:09:11   Like we are an outlier of an outlier at Relay FM.

01:09:14   It's like a podcast network that sells its own ads.

01:09:18   Like that just doesn't really exist that much anymore.

01:09:21   Like there are a few knocking around,

01:09:23   but most of them just join these larger platforms.

01:09:26   It's not even networks anymore.

01:09:28   You just join this platform that is like an ad marketplace

01:09:31   or you use some kind of advertising agency

01:09:34   to sell on your behalf.

01:09:35   Like that's the way things tend to be done these days.

01:09:38   Yeah, the consolidation in this whole market has been enormous.

01:09:41   And it's like, when I'm thinking of how many companies are still in existence

01:09:45   that work the way Relay does, it's like, it's gotta be less than five in the world.

01:09:51   So, so who is this invoice finance company going for?

01:09:55   But like what that tells me is this is like one person or something, right?

01:09:59   Like, and they're like, I've got a great idea.

01:10:02   But like this is the like, and then maybe another 25%

01:10:06   are like mailing lists of things that I do care about,

01:10:09   but they're for me.

01:10:10   So it's like maybe like Patreon emails,

01:10:13   you know, like things that I've signed up for.

01:10:15   - Yeah.

01:10:16   - Then I'll get some like receipt type emails or whatever.

01:10:20   And then the rest is like work email, right?

01:10:22   Like the actual work email that I want,

01:10:25   which is like companies that I have relationships with

01:10:28   that need things from me or companies reaching out

01:10:31   to do sales stuff, which not always,

01:10:33   but still a lot of the time comes to me

01:10:35   and then I give it to Kerry to take on,

01:10:37   just 'cause of the way that our email accounts

01:10:38   are set up or whatever,

01:10:39   and just 'cause my email address just is in the world

01:10:43   somehow, without me ever wanting it to be,

01:10:46   but I can't get away from it.

01:10:48   But like, there is no,

01:10:50   the thing that is making me so upset about this

01:10:52   at the moment, is I have had to come to terms with the fact

01:10:55   that it is impossible for me to escape this.

01:10:58   Email is so fundamentally broken,

01:11:01   but there is no way out of it.

01:11:04   Because I could do what you do, which is not look anymore.

01:11:08   But the problem is, that's not how my company runs.

01:11:11   - Yeah, and I could talk about that in a minute.

01:11:13   But yeah, your business in particular can't work that way.

01:11:17   - It's just the amount of crap that I get.

01:11:19   'Cause if you removed the PR pitches and sales pitches,

01:11:23   I'd be fine with what I get.

01:11:25   And I use like email filtering tools,

01:11:29   but I still have to check through the email

01:11:32   because a lot of email filtering tools

01:11:35   collect up these PR pitches along with like sales pitches

01:11:40   that I do want, right?

01:11:43   Or it's like, hey, we have a company

01:11:45   and we wanna get our brand

01:11:46   in front of your podcast listeners, right?

01:11:48   Can you send us your sales debt?

01:11:49   Great.

01:11:50   I still want those emails.

01:11:52   So I don't really,

01:11:53   it feels like I can't get away from this

01:11:56   because even if I was to filter them out of my inbox,

01:11:59   I still then have to go and look at them.

01:12:01   - Yeah, so while you're talking,

01:12:02   I'm having my own email battle right now.

01:12:05   I just opened up my email just to have it open

01:12:07   so I could describe what I'm trying to do.

01:12:09   And while I opened it,

01:12:12   you still just have straight up errors.

01:12:14   So I'm trying to use a bunch of filtering as well

01:12:17   on my system and it works reasonably well.

01:12:19   But just straight away,

01:12:21   when I clicked on the folder of probable junk,

01:12:24   right at the top were two critical invoices

01:12:29   that I have to pay.

01:12:30   - Yeah, I have to check my spam folder

01:12:32   all the time for this kind of stuff.

01:12:33   - Right.

01:12:34   - And it's like, last month I dealt with this email,

01:12:35   why is it in my spam now?

01:12:37   Like, why is this happening?

01:12:39   - And so these two invoices I have in various systems

01:12:44   marked these things as not spam

01:12:47   probably six times over the last year,

01:12:52   and it's like, why is it still getting caught up

01:12:54   in the system?

01:12:55   So like, I am with you here,

01:12:57   even with the best system, the way email works,

01:13:01   you still can't really ever trust it enough

01:13:05   that you can go like,

01:13:06   "I'm just not gonna look in that junk folder,"

01:13:09   because there can be legit critical problems.

01:13:12   And also what can end up in there is just people

01:13:15   who have never contacted you before,

01:13:18   but who you want to get their message.

01:13:19   Like that's way more likely to get snagged in some filter

01:13:22   for some weird reason.

01:13:24   So yeah, I get it, like it's super frustrating.

01:13:26   - 'Cause like I use a tool called SaneBox.

01:13:28   They've been a sponsor of the podcast in the past,

01:13:30   but I've paid for their product for years.

01:13:33   And they have, like they, I like,

01:13:35   one of the things they like is like,

01:13:36   are you in a sales role?

01:13:37   If you are, you should set it up this way,

01:13:39   where it's like the least aggressive

01:13:42   of this type of filtering.

01:13:43   if I think it's called their sane later thing.

01:13:46   And you can do some manual training, which I've done,

01:13:49   and it works fine and blah, blah, blah.

01:13:51   Because that was my concern

01:13:52   when I was initially setting it up.

01:13:53   It was like, am I gonna start missing stuff now?

01:13:55   It's like, well, they know that there might be other things.

01:13:58   Like I have it pull out newsletters

01:14:00   and I'm able to set up some of my own filtering with it,

01:14:03   but I can't do their best filtering

01:14:07   because of the type of job I have.

01:14:09   Right, 'cause I think at a fundamental level,

01:14:11   what a lot of these services do is like,

01:14:14   if somebody's contacted you for the first time,

01:14:17   it just goes into a bucket

01:14:18   and you can just go in there when you want it.

01:14:20   And for a lot of people, that's like, great,

01:14:22   like that will work.

01:14:24   But that just can't work for me

01:14:26   because the first time someone contacts me

01:14:29   could be important and could have a kind of,

01:14:31   its benefit to my company could diminish every day

01:14:36   that I don't deal with it.

01:14:37   - Exactly, yeah.

01:14:38   - It kind of doesn't really matter

01:14:39   about notifications or whatever,

01:14:41   like this isn't the problem.

01:14:43   I can turn all my notifications off, whatever.

01:14:46   It's still email, I still have to go to the email, right?

01:14:48   Like the problem isn't like the email when it comes in.

01:14:52   It's like when I open my email inbox

01:14:54   and there's just all this just crap in there.

01:14:57   The thing that is so annoying to me is it's like,

01:14:59   this is such low effort.

01:15:01   I don't know who is going along with these things.

01:15:05   Who ever says, yeah, okay.

01:15:09   (laughing)

01:15:11   - Right, like another one that I get a lot is like,

01:15:14   I would like to publish an article on your website.

01:15:18   Whoever says yes to this?

01:15:20   I don't know who it is that says yes.

01:15:23   - So one of the other things is,

01:15:25   I have had a long history of being real bad with email,

01:15:30   but there are a few things that I may want to do

01:15:33   over the next few years which would require me

01:15:35   to be much better at managing email

01:15:37   for like contacting people reasons.

01:15:40   And so one of the things that I spent my time flying

01:15:44   across the world doing was like, okay, great.

01:15:46   You know what I'm gonna do?

01:15:47   I'm gonna clear as much email as I can,

01:15:50   which ended up being just like thousands of messages

01:15:54   because it's the same, I have the same problem that you do.

01:15:57   It seems like in the last two years,

01:16:00   somehow my email has ended up on just 100 million lists.

01:16:05   And I think quite literally I may have deleted,

01:16:09   let's say 200 emails alone on my flight,

01:16:13   which were a variation on,

01:16:15   I would love to put an article on your website,

01:16:19   which again is like,

01:16:19   - I'm so happy you get them too.

01:16:20   - Oh my God, right?

01:16:23   They're completely baffling.

01:16:25   - All of this was exacerbated for me this morning,

01:16:28   when as I was leaving the house, I got an email for you.

01:16:34   (laughing)

01:16:35   - I'm sorry.

01:16:36   - You're not the only person

01:16:37   that I get these emails for, right?

01:16:39   - Yeah, but still it's frustrating.

01:16:40   - But like, it's just like funny to me where it's like,

01:16:44   we would like you to publish your videos

01:16:46   on our platform, CGP Grey.

01:16:48   And it's like, the email is my @mikehurley.net email address.

01:16:53   Like it's not even the one associated with Cortex, right?

01:16:58   I would accept it if it was that one, right?

01:17:00   Like the one that is like publicly

01:17:03   in Apple's podcast database.

01:17:04   But it wasn't, this person had to go to my website

01:17:08   to get that email address

01:17:10   and they didn't even address it to me.

01:17:12   It's like, I don't even understand how this happened.

01:17:15   - I'm so sorry.

01:17:18   - But like, look, you don't need to,

01:17:20   'cause like that was one of the 25 emails today that I got

01:17:23   that was some version of this nonsense.

01:17:25   This one just so happened to be addressed to you.

01:17:28   Because like with our podcasts by and large,

01:17:31   we just submit them all under a Relay FM email address.

01:17:35   So all of our podcast hosts at Relay FM,

01:17:38   they get shielded from this nonsense

01:17:41   because we receive these terrible emails

01:17:44   that they don't want on their behalf,

01:17:47   where they address them to the host.

01:17:48   Hey, so-and-so, we would love to put Billy Bob on your show.

01:17:53   Billy Bob as the CEO of Big Mind Incorporated,

01:17:59   just all this nonsense that we get all day, right?

01:18:01   Like, which no one ever wants anything to deal with.

01:18:04   - No, it's a frustrating problem.

01:18:06   And what I'm trying to do is through a variety

01:18:09   of smart mailboxes and filters,

01:18:11   is divide it all up into four categories.

01:18:14   So I've got like VIPs, people that I've marked explicitly

01:18:18   as VIPs in my contact address.

01:18:21   Then there's everyone who's a contact of some kind.

01:18:25   There's what I'm calling for now, non-tax,

01:18:28   Which is like, these aren't my contacts, but these are automated messages

01:18:32   from places that I care about.

01:18:34   So it's like Amazon receipts and PayPal notifications and stuff.

01:18:38   And then at the bottom, junk.

01:18:40   So in theory, I should be working from like VIPs to contacts to non-tax to the

01:18:45   junk and clear the boxes in that order.

01:18:48   But even there, it's super frustrating because it's like, oh, I want invoices

01:18:53   from PayPal to show up in the VIP category, but there's no, and I suspect

01:18:58   A lot of companies do this on purpose where there's no good way to try to filter it so

01:19:03   that you only get some of their messages.

01:19:06   It's like, "Oh, I can either get everything from PayPal or most of the things from PayPal

01:19:11   showing up on my top level thing, which 90% of it I don't care about.

01:19:16   Or I can have it all go into the non-tax folder, but then I'm missing the important thing."

01:19:21   This is the frustration.

01:19:22   Like you just can't get it to work the way you want to, and you have to check all of

01:19:28   them, including the junk.

01:19:30   And yeah, I was really quite shocked to realize just how much the actual volume of email has

01:19:38   increased over the past two years.

01:19:40   It's like, "Oh my God, what a nightmare to deal with all of this."

01:19:44   The reason it sticks around, and the thing that I am still grateful for, is it is the

01:19:47   only sort of open platform where there is a way to just try to reach people without having to

01:19:53   sign up for like a million different services but boy does it feel like it's really approaching a

01:20:00   tragedy of the commons problem to actually get things done in here so.

01:20:04   The barrier to entry is too low though right?

01:20:07   Yes.

01:20:07   If you imagine this like scale of like your home address, phone number or whatever,

01:20:12   of your email address, it's just too easy

01:20:16   to send stuff to people or to find that email address

01:20:19   or whatever, you know, like the fact that I need

01:20:22   to give an email address in certain circumstances

01:20:25   and then that email address can just be taken and sold.

01:20:28   You know, I think that we are in the same issue here also

01:20:30   of like our email address is on mailing list that are sold.

01:20:35   - Yes, exactly, yeah, that has totally happened.

01:20:37   - That's why we get so many of these emails

01:20:40   that are like, I wanna publish this link on your blog

01:20:42   or this person would be great to come and talk to your audience about the thing that

01:20:48   has absolutely nothing to do with anything that anyone cares about, you know?

01:20:52   I almost feel sorry for the people that have to do these podcast interviews.

01:20:56   Like, you know, like they surely don't even want to do them.

01:20:59   Yeah, it's a strange world, all of that stuff.

01:21:03   It's like, oh, you know, if my email is anything to go by, it's like podcast interviews are

01:21:09   95% of the global economy, I guess?

01:21:12   (laughing)

01:21:14   I don't know what's happening anymore.

01:21:17   Also, I have the terrible suspicion of,

01:21:20   I just don't believe any of the unsubscribe links anymore.

01:21:24   Like I'm fairly certain that clicking on those

01:21:26   please unsubscribe me lists,

01:21:28   that's gotta be like 50% of the time it works,

01:21:32   but 50% of the time it can just confirms

01:21:35   that this email has a person behind it.

01:21:37   - I worry about this too.

01:21:38   - Now just sells the address on further.

01:21:41   - The only time I ever click them is if I feel like,

01:21:45   or I can see that where I'm going is to the unsubscribe page

01:21:50   of a major email platform.

01:21:53   So like a MailChimp or a campaign monitor or whatever,

01:21:57   because I'm confident that's going to work.

01:22:00   And my personal favorite thing about MailChimp

01:22:02   is I can say, I never signed up for this.

01:22:04   - Yes, yeah, that's very nice.

01:22:05   - Because I know if someone gets enough of them,

01:22:08   it can put them into MailChimp jail, basically.

01:22:11   I know that they pay attention to that kind of stuff.

01:22:13   Yeah, I got into MailChimp jail from a single person clicking that link once,

01:22:18   where it was like, "Oh, we got a report that someone said they didn't sign up for your mailing list."

01:22:23   "Well, you should stop buying one of those email addresses, Gray. That's the problem."

01:22:26   [laughter]

01:22:29   Yeah, but I was like, "Whoa, that's very aggressive there, MailChimp."

01:22:32   But that's a good metric to have, though.

01:22:35   If it's one of the major mail providers, then I can actually believe you on Subscribeling.

01:22:38   Sometimes you can tell just by the way the email looks,

01:22:41   which is helpful.

01:22:42   Sometimes you can see where the link's gonna take you.

01:22:44   But yeah, I feel that too.

01:22:45   If it's like some random thing,

01:22:47   it's like, if I click this, they know I'm there now.

01:22:50   - Yeah, it really feels like cutting off the head of a Hydra

01:22:53   every time you click one of those unsubscribe links,

01:22:55   like, ooh.

01:22:56   - I had this thing the other day

01:23:00   that I clicked one of these

01:23:01   'cause I was getting emails from his company every day.

01:23:04   And it's like, it could take up to seven days.

01:23:07   like, "Why? Why would it take seven days to get rid of this? Like, what do you do?

01:23:12   Is someone manually checking this? Like, why will it take a week to remove me from this email list?"

01:23:18   I suspect the reason for that is they are operating in a jurisdiction where that is the law.

01:23:25   Like, you must remove it within X amount of time.

01:23:27   And so what they're really just doing is saying, "We have seven more days to mail you pitches."

01:23:32   That's what that, like, that's my suspicion is.

01:23:34   I actually think I might know the real one.

01:23:37   I just said that.

01:23:39   I remember from back in my old days.

01:23:42   Depending on how the information is shared

01:23:45   and who's sending the emails,

01:23:46   there may be a lag in that information

01:23:49   getting from one place to the other.

01:23:51   When I used to work in the bank,

01:23:52   because it was bank information,

01:23:54   you couldn't just have it freely shared

01:23:57   between the bank and the company that sent the emails.

01:24:00   'Cause it was like a whole other company

01:24:02   that sent the emails.

01:24:04   So that information would feed from one place to the next

01:24:07   and it would be collected up in the next round

01:24:10   of email addresses that would be sent out

01:24:12   to the company to send them to.

01:24:14   Does that make sense?

01:24:15   So like you would say, I don't wanna do this

01:24:17   and the place that takes note of that

01:24:18   is not actually the same place that presses send

01:24:21   on the email newsletter list.

01:24:24   It's like you've got to wait,

01:24:24   there's like a delay between point A and point B

01:24:27   of, oh, this is what the list is now.

01:24:30   I will say it's bull (beep) that that exists

01:24:33   'cause that's like too many old systems

01:24:35   being strung together.

01:24:37   But that might be in some cases

01:24:38   why that kind of thing does happen,

01:24:41   but it's stupid that so many large companies

01:24:43   use such terribly old technology, you know?

01:24:46   - Yeah, I mean, God, like email was invented in the 60s

01:24:50   or 70s, I don't know, like it is an old tech

01:24:57   and that sounds like old tech built on top of older tech,

01:25:00   but yeah, I don't know, like again,

01:25:02   I find myself back on the wheel of email again

01:25:06   after basically ignoring all of my email for two years.

01:25:10   And it has been dismal getting back into this

01:25:13   and be like, "Okay, I need to actually manage this.

01:25:16   I need to deal with the horrific guilt of an email

01:25:19   from an important person from two years ago."

01:25:21   And it's like, "Oh, it feels so awful."

01:25:24   - You still using mail?

01:25:26   - I am still using mail.

01:25:27   Yeah, that's what I'm still using.

01:25:28   - I'd like to make a recommendation for you.

01:25:30   - Okay.

01:25:31   if you just use Gmail. If you do use Gmail, I recommend an app called MimeStream. Oh,

01:25:35   we spoke about it in State of the Apps. If you haven't looked at it, look at MimeStream.

01:25:39   It's awesome.

01:25:40   But it can do non-Gmail stuff? That's the problem. I've got a bunch of accounts that

01:25:44   are not Gmail.

01:25:45   Right now, it's just Gmail. I think that they are going to work on that, and when they do,

01:25:49   it's what I will probably move to on my Mac for a lot of stuff. But I still use Spark.

01:25:55   I just figured we should just update people because we just spoke about email, rambled

01:25:59   about email for 20 minutes. I feel like Stu's and Spark still love their team sharing features.

01:26:05   Like they've got me forever with that because it's so good for what I do, especially when

01:26:10   like all those emails that I mentioned earlier, like the sales ones that come in that I do

01:26:14   want us to actually engage in, I don't deal with them. I then hand them over to Carrie

01:26:18   and she deals with them and I use Spark to like filter that through. Like it came into

01:26:22   my email address, but I can move it over to her email address. Now I've thought like,

01:26:27   we like decouple it and then have just like a sales relay infirm address but it's even then

01:26:32   I'm still gonna want to see it so like whatever like just might as well to keep it as it is.

01:26:36   Yeah this is also the problem where you try to make separate email addresses to have filtering

01:26:41   but then they all end up in the same email program again yeah and it's just like oh I've

01:26:45   accomplished nothing. This is who I end up with it's like I could make things really much more

01:26:50   difficult for myself for a while for no result like there will be no good result for me. Like

01:26:56   Like looking at my email accounts,

01:26:58   I have like 10 different accounts

01:26:59   that my program is checking.

01:27:01   And many of these, I'm looking at them and I know it's like,

01:27:03   oh yes, that's when I thought I would start over

01:27:06   and have just this email that I would give to,

01:27:09   oh, this one's the just for companies email

01:27:12   and this one is just for people.

01:27:14   And it's like, nope, I solved nothing

01:27:16   except making my system more annoying and more complicated.

01:27:20   - Yeah, I have seven email accounts.

01:27:22   - Yeah. (laughs)

01:27:24   - What a fool.