113: Semi-Abandoned System


00:00:00   Okay, good to go!

00:00:02   Okay.

00:00:02   Ready to get started.

00:00:04   Only two hours after we sort of got started.

00:00:07   I know.

00:00:07   It's not too bad.

00:00:08   Big meetings today.

00:00:09   Yeah.

00:00:10   So I am today, I'm doing something I haven't done in nearly four months.

00:00:17   Oh yeah?

00:00:17   I am recording a podcast from Mega Studio.

00:00:20   Ooh!

00:00:21   You're back at Mega Studio!

00:00:23   Well, one day this week I was like,

00:00:25   "I'm gonna go to the studio."

00:00:27   Okay.

00:00:28   I just had this like, I haven't had this feeling.

00:00:31   You just woke up?

00:00:32   I don't even know why it happened.

00:00:33   I was just like, I can't even remember what I was doing at the time.

00:00:38   And she was like, "No, I'm gonna go to the studio this week and the best day will be

00:00:41   Thursday."

00:00:42   Okay.

00:00:44   And so I just said to her, and I was like, "I want to go to the studio.

00:00:48   Do you think that's a good idea?"

00:00:50   And she said, "Yes."

00:00:51   So I did it.

00:00:52   It's good you had that little sanity check.

00:00:54   "I have an idea.

00:00:55   Just let me run it past someone."

00:00:56   And also, you know, if every time we go out, we are making a risk for both of us, and so

00:01:04   I would be leaving the home for the day and spending it in a completely different location

00:01:09   with all manner of different people that I can walk past and stuff, you know?

00:01:14   So I increase my exposure vector for the day and that increases both of ours.

00:01:19   Yeah, it's another one of those like, it's yower decision to make.

00:01:22   Oh that's fun.

00:01:23   I like that.

00:01:24   I like that.

00:01:25   Yower.

00:01:26   I like that, I'm gonna use that.

00:01:28   I've told you that before.

00:01:29   Maybe.

00:01:30   You've got yower and mower, right?

00:01:31   Like, that's how you discuss coupled decisions.

00:01:34   What's mower?

00:01:35   I don't remember that one.

00:01:36   What's mower?

00:01:37   Mower is like if, okay, so two people are making a decision.

00:01:39   It's a coupled decision.

00:01:41   And it's yower or mower from the perspective of the person talking.

00:01:46   So if a decision is, let's say Myke, you and I are deciding something, right?

00:01:49   But the decision affects both of us about something that I'm going to do, right?

00:01:55   It's "mour" decision, like I'm making the decision, but it also affects the both of

00:02:00   us.

00:02:01   And if you're making a decision that affects the both of us, it's "your" decision.

00:02:04   That's how that works.

00:02:05   That's how those words work.

00:02:06   And is that spelled M-O-U-R and Y-O-U-R?

00:02:09   I've never thought to write them down.

00:02:11   I don't know.

00:02:12   I leave it to crowdsourcing how those words are spelled, but it's "your", "our",

00:02:17   and "my", "our".

00:02:18   I guess it can't…

00:02:19   Yeah, it may be like, oh, like Y in parentheses, our,

00:02:24   and M in parentheses, our.

00:02:26   That's I think how I would do that in my brain.

00:02:28   - Oh, yeah.

00:02:29   - Because if you do Y-O-U-R, it's just your, right?

00:02:32   Like there needs to be something that,

00:02:34   (laughing)

00:02:36   as soon as I said, oh, that seems smart.

00:02:38   And then I just thought about it for an extra second

00:02:39   and was like, oh no, I just spelled the word your.

00:02:42   That's exactly not the point.

00:02:45   Okay, yeah, you gotta put it in the,

00:02:47   Well, I would call brackets, but Americans call parentheses.

00:02:50   Yeah.

00:02:51   I mean, I can see that, but then that's a little bit ugly to write.

00:02:53   Maybe there could be a silent H in yower.

00:02:55   So it's Y H O U R.

00:02:58   Yower.

00:02:58   Would there be an apostrophe be right?

00:03:02   Like Y apostrophe hour?

00:03:05   I mean, I guess, I guess an apostrophe would be the grammatically correct

00:03:09   thing to do when you're combining two words together, like y'all, right?

00:03:12   So you put the apostrophe there because it's the two things.

00:03:15   I think maybe you've hit upon it.

00:03:16   Yeah.

00:03:17   and maybe it's an apostrophe.

00:03:18   Why, why apostrophe hour, M apostrophe hour.

00:03:21   Yeah, I think you got it.

00:03:21   There we go, great.

00:03:23   - Good work, team.

00:03:24   That was just our decision.

00:03:26   - So you were making a decision

00:03:28   for the health of the two of you.

00:03:31   - Yeah, and then one of the things that I did

00:03:33   was I looked at the numbers, right, the COVID numbers,

00:03:36   and we're basically where we were

00:03:39   maybe like September, October,

00:03:41   and I was here every day then.

00:03:42   - Right, right.

00:03:43   - So I was like, okay, I'm gonna do it.

00:03:46   So here I am.

00:03:47   - What is your method of transportation to Mega Studio?

00:03:51   Do you take the train now?

00:03:52   - Still take the train, yeah.

00:03:52   - How'd that work?

00:03:53   - Yeah, the train.

00:03:54   - Okay.

00:03:55   - I was taking a train at like 10 a.m.,

00:03:57   something like that.

00:03:59   It's very empty, I could open a window.

00:04:01   I'm not really near anybody.

00:04:03   There's still people that aren't wearing masks, right?

00:04:07   And I just cannot fathom that at this point.

00:04:10   Like, have you not got the memo?

00:04:12   Like, I don't understand.

00:04:14   Like, I really can't get my head around it,

00:04:15   But I think that's just a thing that I can't understand.

00:04:19   Like it's not for me to understand, right?

00:04:21   Why people would choose to make that decision at this point.

00:04:24   Cause I clearly can't understand it.

00:04:25   Well, it's required on the public transport, right?

00:04:27   Like isn't in theory, isn't that required to be on public transport

00:04:31   in the UK is to wear a mask?

00:04:32   Yeah, it's legal.

00:04:33   It's the law.

00:04:33   That's like the other part of it.

00:04:34   I know that there are people that just think that they shouldn't do it or they

00:04:37   don't want to, but like it is illegal to not wear one, but can I say people are

00:04:44   people aren't they?

00:04:45   But, oh man, it's so good.

00:04:47   So good to be here today.

00:04:49   - I'm very envious of you being back in there.

00:04:52   It must be so nice to have all that space to spread out.

00:04:54   You just lay on the floor and make an office floor snow angel,

00:04:58   you know, moving around, just enjoying the space.

00:05:00   - Well, I haven't vacuumed today,

00:05:02   so I wouldn't want to do that.

00:05:03   This place is-

00:05:05   - No, but that's how you could make the office snow angel,

00:05:08   right?

00:05:09   If you had vacuumed, you wouldn't be able to do it.

00:05:10   - It's a dust angel.

00:05:11   - But because you haven't been there for months,

00:05:13   there's enough dust on the floor

00:05:14   that you could make an office floor angel by spreading out.

00:05:17   - So one thing that was funny to me

00:05:20   as I walked through the door is I have one

00:05:22   of the lovely Kertsgesagt calendars.

00:05:24   And it was on January.

00:05:26   - Oh, right.

00:05:28   - So I came in and I had to turn two entire months.

00:05:31   (laughing)

00:05:32   That was the last time you were here.

00:05:34   We weren't even here in January.

00:05:35   We put it up in December for January.

00:05:38   - Right.

00:05:39   (laughing)

00:05:40   - It's like, oh God.

00:05:41   It was so depressing to do that.

00:05:43   That's a very movie scene kind of thing to do where you're like,

00:05:46   "Oh, we need to show the audience that a lot of time has passed."

00:05:49   So when Myke returns to his office, there's this calendar he needs to move forward two months

00:05:55   so everyone can go, "Uh-oh, it's been a while since he's there."

00:05:58   [LAUGHS]

00:05:59   That's really funny.

00:06:00   - But as I'm doing it, I'm hearing in my mind the amount of rent

00:06:04   paid during those two periods of time as I'm moving these pieces of paper.

00:06:07   - Cha-ching, cha-ching, right.

00:06:10   - Two very expensive pieces of paper moving.

00:06:12   rent money well spent.

00:06:14   (laughs)

00:06:17   I'm so glad you're back there though.

00:06:20   I think that's really nice.

00:06:21   I assume the plan is to just continue recording

00:06:25   many shows there or most shows there.

00:06:28   Like, what are you thinking?

00:06:29   - I have no plan.

00:06:30   I just came today.

00:06:31   - Okay.

00:06:32   - I assume that I will do like what I did

00:06:35   after the first lockdown.

00:06:37   - Right.

00:06:38   - Where I just increase a little bit

00:06:41   until I'm here all the time again.

00:06:43   I don't really have a plan,

00:06:45   I just knew I wanted to be here today.

00:06:46   But now being here today,

00:06:47   it's like the energy in the space is just so much nicer

00:06:51   than being at home and doing this stuff.

00:06:54   Like it just feels so much better to me.

00:06:56   I feel more focused, I fill my time with different things.

00:06:59   It's again, for me, remembering why I like this space.

00:07:03   My hope will be that, I don't know, within the next month,

00:07:07   I'll be back to being here every day again.

00:07:09   - Yeah, I hope that works out for you too.

00:07:11   Like that space is so cool looking from the photos that I've seen and is, you know, just

00:07:16   enormous and great.

00:07:18   And you've just had such a hard time getting there that I, you know, I don't know where

00:07:25   I would bet my money on this, but I am hopeful that this can be the start of the transition

00:07:33   into using the office full time as you intended it to be last year.

00:07:39   I hope that that's what this can be.

00:07:40   I feel pretty confident about that.

00:07:42   I feel very, very certain that by the end of the year,

00:07:47   we will have actually moved the things here

00:07:49   that were supposed to move here.

00:07:51   - Great.

00:07:51   - So like taking away that final part of the home office

00:07:56   and bringing those last pieces here,

00:07:59   which was just a thing we never got to do.

00:08:00   But just at this point, it doesn't really feel

00:08:04   like it's gonna go any other way for me, right?

00:08:06   Like I just feel like the vaccinations are rolling out,

00:08:09   Like, I'm gonna get that by the summer, and then for me personally,

00:08:14   I wouldn't see any reason why I wouldn't be here every day from then on.

00:08:18   Well, I'm glad you've used Cortex as the start of getting back into Mega Office permanently.

00:08:23   It kind of felt like the right one to me as well, though. It kind of felt right.

00:08:27   There's been an epic progress of Mega Studio over the course of the show.

00:08:32   Plus, I mean, it ended up turning out pretty well,

00:08:34   because I feel like I needed an energy boost after the last 24 hours,

00:08:38   because I have just been...

00:08:40   You've been a little on edge, a little wiped out from the last 24 hours?

00:08:44   Why? What happened, Myke? I have no idea.

00:08:46   Yeah, it's like leading up to the last couple of weeks.

00:08:49   So, More Text subscribers will know that I made a prediction

00:08:52   about when the Theme System Journal would be back on sale.

00:08:55   And I said on our last episode in the More Text section,

00:09:00   which you can sign up for at getmoretext.com,

00:09:02   and you get longer Cortex episodes with no ads every single time we release one.

00:09:07   I made the prediction the first week of March that they would be available

00:09:10   or at least I think I said ready and I was technically correct

00:09:14   that the journals had were sitting in... You were technically correct?

00:09:19   They were sitting in the warehouse at the beginning of March. They could have

00:09:22   gone on sale but we were trying to... there's like this whole new thing after

00:09:26   Brexit with VAT in the UK it's like sales tax basically and a new rule was

00:09:32   passed where you have to... anybody's sending stuff into the UK what

00:09:36   what you should do now is charge VAT

00:09:39   a point of purchase.

00:09:41   And then the company that takes the money,

00:09:44   so for us our partners, Cotton Bureau,

00:09:47   would then pay that VAT to the British government,

00:09:49   I think on a quarterly basis.

00:09:51   And so Cotton Bureau working on this,

00:09:54   and you have to get a rubber stamp

00:09:57   from the government basically,

00:09:58   and they give you a number.

00:09:59   - Like a tax ID number.

00:10:00   That's what the UK government needs

00:10:02   to give out the companies.

00:10:03   Just, I've noticed that since this rule change

00:10:06   has come into effect. A number of companies that I normally buy things that were perfectly

00:10:11   fine to ship stuff to the UK have all, at least for the time being, said "uh, we can't

00:10:17   ship to the UK". Check back with us in a few months. So I figure a lot of places are

00:10:23   going through this process of trying to get the UK government to recognise them in order

00:10:29   to collect VAT for the UK, which seems like such a pain in the ass for everyone. It really

00:10:35   does. Especially because this was Brexit-related. There was no actual guidelines until after

00:10:42   Brexit started, but the rule came into effect immediately.

00:10:46   Right, exactly what you want. Which is not a great way of setting this up.

00:10:52   And I believe that Cotton Bureau are on day 30-something of what is supposed to be a 15-day

00:10:57   process of getting the numbers.

00:11:01   And so I really wanted to have this in place because it would mean that people would know

00:11:07   before they buy how much taxes they're going to have to pay and I believe would remove

00:11:13   the handling fees for customs agencies, which I hate those fees.

00:11:17   I have to pay eight pounds just because it touched your hands, right?

00:11:21   That drives me mad.

00:11:23   In theory, paying all these taxes at purchase would remove that, but it got to the point where

00:11:29   we could be waiting an indefinite amount of time.

00:11:32   And what was really important to me is that these journals would be able to arrive at people before the end of March

00:11:40   because people that journal every day will run out, their journals are going to run out.

00:11:46   And this is the first time in the history of this product that we have ever actually had them

00:11:52   arrive available for sale at the time we wanted them.

00:11:57   This has never happened before.

00:11:57   - It's a huge accomplishment.

00:11:58   - It's a massive accomplishment.

00:12:00   So I was kind of not going to keep waiting.

00:12:02   So we put them live.

00:12:04   I've bought one to ship here just to see what will happen

00:12:07   and I'll find out.

00:12:08   And I guess anybody that does buy from the UK,

00:12:10   if we have problems,

00:12:12   we'll just try and work it out together.

00:12:13   I don't really know what to do.

00:12:16   We'll see, I suppose.

00:12:18   - It is delightfully ridiculous

00:12:21   that both you and I are in the UK, which ends up being the one place on earth where it's

00:12:27   like a little bit uncertain exactly how it will work out with these journals being shipped.

00:12:32   They're gonna arrive everywhere else.

00:12:33   Everyone else in the whole world is like totally fine.

00:12:36   Like do they arrive and get sent back? Do they arrive like they used to and you pay the charges?

00:12:43   Because me as a somebody buying things, I've had some stuff arrive that should have had

00:12:48   charges but hasn't and I've had some stuff arrive and I just get the regular

00:12:52   pay us the customs fee so I don't know what's gonna happen with these and we'll

00:12:57   find out and as soon as we get that registration, the Cotton Bureau will be able to turn

00:13:01   this feature on and then you'll be able to work out your taxes beforehand and

00:13:05   it's gonna be great and I'm looking forward to that happening but

00:13:08   unfortunately it was just a case of like we don't know when this was gonna happen

00:13:13   so we just put them on sale and so far journals are sounding very well so we're

00:13:18   We're recording this the day after.

00:13:20   We never really know what's gonna happen, honestly,

00:13:24   but we've sold over a third so far of this stock.

00:13:29   And once again, we ordered more than we would assume

00:13:32   we would be able to sell.

00:13:34   And we've already put in an order for more,

00:13:37   and we're still working it out, I guess.

00:13:39   - Yeah, yeah, no, it's been going very well,

00:13:42   but I just wanna, before I let you slide on past this,

00:13:45   and we need to nail down your prediction here, right?

00:13:48   because you said, first week of March,

00:13:51   are you saying that in Moretex,

00:13:53   your claim was that the journals would be ready

00:13:57   the first week of March?

00:13:59   Because they weren't on sale the first week of March.

00:14:03   But like, you're saying you said in Moretex

00:14:06   they would be ready.

00:14:07   Is that what you're claiming here?

00:14:09   - The reason I said ready

00:14:10   is 'cause I knew that thing was going on.

00:14:13   - Okay.

00:14:14   - I just hadn't communicated all this to you yet.

00:14:16   - Hmm.

00:14:17   Look, I will say that I did not get my prediction

00:14:20   because it's not how anybody else would take it, right?

00:14:23   Right, right, okay.

00:14:24   But I knew that there could be at least a delay

00:14:27   of a few extra days for this thing to occur.

00:14:32   Okay, okay.

00:14:33   I just wanted to nail down the technicalities here.

00:14:36   What are you trying to claim?

00:14:38   And you had set it up that you were giving yourself

00:14:41   a little bit of a flexibility on what does it mean

00:14:45   for them to be ready the first week of March.

00:14:47   does not mean on sale the first week of March.

00:14:49   Okay.

00:14:50   Let me tell you, it was just killer for me to know they were just sitting there.

00:14:54   Oh, I hated it, Gray.

00:14:56   Like it was probably a week, a little over a week, they're just sitting there.

00:15:00   No, it's awful.

00:15:02   Thank you if you bought one.

00:15:03   If you still want one, cortexmerch.com, go there now.

00:15:07   Cortexmerch.com.

00:15:08   You want to go get yourself a theme system journal.

00:15:12   Themes can happen at any time of the year.

00:15:13   You may not have set one yet, but still time.

00:15:15   Yeah.

00:15:16   changeover. It was just outside yesterday seeing those spring flowers coming up.

00:15:23   You know, some nice daffodils out there. Lovely, lovely start of spring.

00:15:27   It definitely feels like the seasons are changing here in the UK. There's a bit more

00:15:31   sun. Yes, yes we're definitely out of the bleak nothing that is UK winters and

00:15:39   the sun is around longer. You know, the birds are singing, the flowers are

00:15:44   blooming, the journalers are journaling.

00:15:48   It's the start of spring.

00:15:49   It's lovely.

00:15:50   What would you call like a collection of journalers?

00:15:54   You feel like you've always got to try to find something that's

00:15:57   like related that's the group.

00:15:59   Volume.

00:16:00   Volume's not bad.

00:16:01   I was thinking of like binding, like a binding of

00:16:04   journalers, like pages are bound.

00:16:06   Yeah, that's nice.

00:16:07   I like that.

00:16:08   Index?

00:16:09   Contents?

00:16:13   [Laughter]

00:16:16   Leave your suggestions in the Reddit.

00:16:19   [BEEP]

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00:18:09   (beep)

00:18:10   On our last episode, we had a horrific failure

00:18:13   of trying to get our screen time data

00:18:15   because downtime just destroyed that for you.

00:18:20   But you sent me a message a couple of days ago

00:18:22   and you were so excited

00:18:23   that you had a full week's worth of data.

00:18:25   - I felt so bad.

00:18:27   Like I felt so bad last time because again,

00:18:29   like you do so much work in trying to get the show

00:18:33   nice and prepared and ready to go.

00:18:36   And, you know, it's, I always really appreciate that.

00:18:39   And I just didn't realize last time that you were, you know,

00:18:42   you're like, oh, I'll build the entire show around screen time.

00:18:45   And that's what we're going to do.

00:18:46   And then I'm like, oh, like an idiot, I deleted all my screen

00:18:49   time data, tried to talk to you.

00:18:50   So I felt real, I just felt really terrible last time.

00:18:53   There's something so funny about that to me.

00:18:55   Like when, especially when I was noticing when I was doing the editing,

00:18:58   like I could hear in my voice the moment where I was like,

00:19:01   I have nothing else prepared, but then we still turned out.

00:19:06   Like a nearly a two hour episode.

00:19:08   Yeah.

00:19:11   I mean, you know, that, that, that can happen, you know, conversations can flow,

00:19:15   but it definitely reached me in my heart that, that same moment.

00:19:19   Like I know the exact point you're talking about where it's, you can hear

00:19:22   my go, "Oh no, I have nothing else planned."

00:19:27   And that's just, it's just a terrible feeling.

00:19:31   I mean, you know, even with Cortex not being live, like we could, you know,

00:19:35   In some disaster, I guess we could record a second half of the show at a different time.

00:19:39   It's theoretically possible, but it's still such a pain in the butt.

00:19:42   And you're like, so I just, I've just felt awful about that.

00:19:45   And what I did, cause I was like, okay, I can't let Myke down next time.

00:19:50   So I, I had to set up a reminder in the reminders app to bug me every day at 9 PM.

00:19:58   To take a screenshot of whatever screen time data I happen to have.

00:20:04   And so I was like, I'm going to just look, maybe I can't make it through an entire week,

00:20:09   but I'm going to try to record this whenever I can.

00:20:12   And even just a few days after we talked, I had to reset it again because I ran into

00:20:19   that same problem where I needed to talk to someone and Apple was saying, "No, you're

00:20:25   not allowed."

00:20:26   And I was like, I've got to reset this.

00:20:28   I'm going to lose all the screen time data again.

00:20:30   So I need to remind myself to like make sure to capture it as we go along.

00:20:35   I saw somebody suggest on the subreddit you might want to try this.

00:20:39   They said they've had this issue.

00:20:40   Apparently they force quit messages twice and then it works.

00:20:46   Just something to try for you next time.

00:20:49   I don't know if that's actually going to work or if that's one of those like

00:20:54   swinging a rubber chicken around your head type deals but it seemed to work for this individual.

00:20:59   I mean, look, I'll try it. I'll give it a shot.

00:21:02   Look, if I need to get around the bodyguard that is Apple,

00:21:05   which was Delightfully Animated by H.M. Putte on our Cortex Animated episode,

00:21:11   that was really fun, to see Apple preventing me talking to people, I really like that one.

00:21:15   If force quitting messages twice gets it to work, I'll give it a try.

00:21:19   But yeah, that does sound like we're starting to build up a sequence of superstitions of what works.

00:21:24   But this is the reason why when I made it through an entire week without having to reset

00:21:31   it and keeping the data, I was like, "Extra pleased!"

00:21:33   I was like, "Oh great!

00:21:34   I got this for Myke!

00:21:35   Let me let him know!

00:21:36   Hey Myke, don't worry!

00:21:37   I'm like, you – for the next show, I've actually got the thing to show you!

00:21:41   We're all set!"

00:21:42   So would you like to talk about screen crimes?

00:21:45   Mykey - Well, well, before we do, one last piece of platinum follow-up.

00:21:48   You texted me this morning to tell me you remembered we were recording today.

00:21:51   (laughing)

00:21:52   Which I also really enjoyed.

00:21:55   - Look, I just, I messed up real bad last time

00:21:57   and I'm so sorry.

00:21:58   (laughing)

00:22:00   I've just got to acknowledge it.

00:22:04   - Screen time, screen crimes.

00:22:07   So the way that I think of this

00:22:09   and the reason I like that we refer to this as screen crimes

00:22:12   is because we can put whatever we want on our home screens.

00:22:16   We can talk about whatever apps we use in state of the apps.

00:22:20   We can track our time depending on how we say we're using it

00:22:24   and what projects we're up to.

00:22:26   But this is data that shows what's being used, right?

00:22:29   We can't escape this data.

00:22:31   I mean, it's not really completely accurate most of the time

00:22:35   and doesn't necessarily draw a full picture,

00:22:37   which is something I want to talk about in a bit.

00:22:39   - Oh yes, yeah.

00:22:40   I've got things to talk about with that as well.

00:22:42   - Oh yes, it's getting worse.

00:22:44   But you at least get a picture of the applications

00:22:47   that are being used.

00:22:48   And for me, I don't know about you now,

00:22:50   but I now include my Macs in this.

00:22:54   So my data is of all of my machines.

00:22:57   - Oh, okay.

00:22:58   - This was really unreliable in Catalina.

00:23:00   It was very bad, but on Big Sur,

00:23:02   they actually did make some changes

00:23:03   to the way it works with the Mac.

00:23:05   So I'm gonna send you mine first.

00:23:08   - Yeah, yeah, send me yours.

00:23:09   So you're going to send me, what,

00:23:11   screenshots of everything combined?

00:23:13   So this is your phone, your iPad, and your Mac altogether?

00:23:16   - Correct, and I can--

00:23:17   - Oh, whoa, what is, look at this.

00:23:19   - Yeah, I put it all together in a little graphic for you

00:23:21   and I can drill down into it.

00:23:24   And that might be better for stuff like notifications,

00:23:26   'cause I think with notifications,

00:23:29   it groups them together if it's the same application.

00:23:32   So like messages says 884.

00:23:35   - Right.

00:23:36   - But I didn't get 884 messages notifications.

00:23:40   I got 884 if you bring together my iPhone

00:23:42   and my Macs together, right?

00:23:45   It's like now it's 884.

00:23:46   - Oh, okay, I see what you're saying.

00:23:49   So it's double counting messages that appeared on your Mac and your iPad while you were messaging

00:23:55   someone on your phone?

00:23:56   Is that what you mean?

00:23:57   I guess so.

00:23:58   I guess it's like that.

00:23:59   I just got to open this up full screen on my Mac.

00:24:01   The way that you put this together it's like it's this crazy dashboard of Myke's life.

00:24:05   Yeah because like on the notification segment if I choose just my iPhone it says 432.

00:24:11   If I choose just my MacBook Pro it says 118.

00:24:15   But there's definitely some double counting here.

00:24:18   But again, I don't know how much, but there's definitely some double counting going on, I'm

00:24:22   sure of it.

00:24:23   Okay, so your average screen time across what, three devices?

00:24:29   Is that what you're saying?

00:24:30   Three devices?

00:24:31   Is 10 hours a day?

00:24:32   There's technically like four or five in there.

00:24:34   Okay.

00:24:35   But you see, this is where we get into problem number one.

00:24:37   That 10 hour figure is wrong, because I've hit this really weird bug.

00:24:41   Where, you see that thing that says, that, see the top entry, that 16 hour entry, rss.art19.com?

00:24:51   I was wondering what this is.

00:24:53   Your top entry is a website with 16 hours.

00:24:58   I think, oh wow, this must be the most engaging website that exists if you've spent 16 hours

00:25:04   a week on it.

00:25:05   And I want to know what art19.com is.

00:25:08   I'm quite intrigued.

00:25:09   So Art19 is like a podcast hosting platform.

00:25:12   I have no idea what this website is relating to.

00:25:15   I maybe had a link open for a podcast or something,

00:25:20   but this is an issue that I have found recently

00:25:22   where something's going on with Safari on my Mac

00:25:26   where a website of some description is listed

00:25:29   as being used for 24 hours a day.

00:25:32   (laughing)

00:25:34   Can I have one this week?

00:25:36   Right.

00:25:36   I'm gonna talk about it wrong,

00:25:38   But timing, timing is a Mac app

00:25:41   that can do this kind of stuff as well.

00:25:43   And it has some different features.

00:25:45   But so far this week, I have racked up 52 hours

00:25:48   of screen time on timingapp.com in Safari.

00:25:52   Now, I wasn't on this website for 14 hours yesterday.

00:25:57   (laughing)

00:25:59   - Right, of course.

00:26:01   - So I don't know exactly what's causing that issue,

00:26:03   but I'm pleased 'cause the week before,

00:26:06   I had 24 hours of average usage a day every day

00:26:09   because I had something that was reporting

00:26:11   24 hours of use a day.

00:26:13   So my actual average is way less, right?

00:26:17   My actual average is probably around seven hours a day.

00:26:22   - So here's my question, right?

00:26:25   You're thinking that your screen time average

00:26:29   is seven hours a day across all devices.

00:26:32   That's your own estimate.

00:26:33   - Yeah.

00:26:34   including when you're recording podcasts as well or not with that?

00:26:37   I mean, in theory.

00:26:39   I'm just wondering, it's interesting.

00:26:40   That seems low, maybe?

00:26:42   Yeah.

00:26:43   I don't know.

00:26:44   But this is where it gets into the issues of how this data is reported.

00:26:49   So if we're looking at all of my devices here, where's Skype?

00:26:54   Oh, yeah. Right. No Skype on here.

00:26:57   Because what it's doing is it records applications that are visible,

00:27:03   not necessarily in use.

00:27:05   So I'm using Skype for hours and hours and hours and hours,

00:27:09   but it's not showing up on these lists because,

00:27:13   I don't know, 'cause it's not in front all the time.

00:27:17   - Yeah, I just laughed before because I realized,

00:27:20   so we're gonna have this conversation about screen time.

00:27:23   Question number one,

00:27:25   how much time have you spent on a screen?

00:27:27   Who knows?

00:27:28   Like before we get into the actual details,

00:27:32   - It's like, oh, we're already uncertain.

00:27:35   - There's no way, there's just no way that that's right.

00:27:37   It doesn't make any sense that those would be the numbers.

00:27:40   - Yeah, when we get to my data later,

00:27:42   because I was trying to use this, I think,

00:27:44   more intensely and earlier than you,

00:27:46   I had to turn off screen time on my computers

00:27:50   because I just found it too buggy

00:27:51   and I'd never tried turning it back on

00:27:53   with the latest OS update.

00:27:54   So I don't know what that's like,

00:27:56   but I had the experience of, it would tell me just,

00:28:01   "Oh, you've spent 80 hours this week on Finder."

00:28:04   Because there's a Finder application that was open.

00:28:08   It's like, "Ooh, I love searching for files."

00:28:11   Yeah, it's like, guess what?

00:28:14   I never don't have a Finder application open.

00:28:18   So this data is extraordinarily unhelpful.

00:28:22   It was just like, every time I looked at it, it was,

00:28:24   "Oh, Finder is your most used application

00:28:27   by an enormous margin and everything else is tiny."

00:28:30   So is what you're saying that they've changed that

00:28:34   and now it's, you think it's just recording

00:28:37   whatever application the Mac thinks is the active one

00:28:42   at any time?

00:28:43   Like, is that what you think is occurring?

00:28:45   - Yeah.

00:28:46   Well, I mean, it's got to be, because I found it now.

00:28:48   Last week it's saying that I use Skype for three minutes.

00:28:51   (laughing)

00:28:52   Now I can tell you that's not true.

00:28:55   (laughing)

00:28:56   - Right.

00:28:57   - So I think that there's something here about like,

00:28:59   what is the front most window is what's being recorded.

00:29:04   - It's gotta be, it's gotta be.

00:29:06   - That's not accurate all the time, right?

00:29:08   Like it just isn't because, I mean,

00:29:11   Skype is the application by minutes

00:29:13   that I'll use the most in a week,

00:29:15   but it doesn't even register here.

00:29:18   Like my screen time data for today so far

00:29:21   is saying that I used Skype for seven minutes,

00:29:25   but we have been talking for three hours at this point.

00:29:29   - Right.

00:29:30   - So like there are just fundamentals of this data

00:29:32   that are just really, really not good.

00:29:35   But anyway, let's actually look at what we've got here

00:29:37   for a bit rather than we can just complain about it.

00:29:40   'Cause there is some stuff in here,

00:29:41   there's some stuff of interest.

00:29:43   One thing that frustrates me is my Twitter usage

00:29:45   for the week in question.

00:29:47   Because for the last couple of months,

00:29:50   I have been really good at keeping my Twitter usage

00:29:54   to about four hours a week total.

00:29:57   but this was a six hour, 22 minute week.

00:30:00   I don't know what I did last week

00:30:01   where I was spending more time on Twitter,

00:30:03   but it's annoying because this is like,

00:30:05   if we would have done this on the week

00:30:07   that we had intended to originally do it,

00:30:09   my statistics would look more like

00:30:10   what I want them to right now.

00:30:12   - Right, right, yeah, yeah.

00:30:14   And this is also one of the places

00:30:16   that I find it a little bit frustrating with this stuff

00:30:20   because it would be nice not to just set daily limits

00:30:24   but to be able to have like a weekly target.

00:30:26   I think in some ways weekly targets make more sense for certain things.

00:30:29   And it would be kind of nice, like what you just said happens is the whole reason why

00:30:33   a system automatically recording data in theory is incredibly powerful because your subjective

00:30:43   experience is that your use of Twitter was no different this week than last week.

00:30:47   But the actual data is, well, something happened that caused you to use Twitter more.

00:30:54   And there could have been a moment where the system could alert you to be like, "Hey, it's

00:30:59   only Thursday and you're already like over your average Twitter usage."

00:31:04   It's like, is that something that you want to be doing?

00:31:06   As for now, it's just sort of a mystery as to if you look back, you now discover that

00:31:11   it was more than you thought.

00:31:14   So you're happy with like four hours of Twitter a week?

00:31:17   You feel like that's a good number for you?

00:31:19   Because I feel like this has been a constant struggle.

00:31:21   - Yeah, the four hour number was something where

00:31:25   I spent a week where I was really trying to limit it.

00:31:30   Like I took Twitter off my home screen,

00:31:32   it's off the dock of my Mac, like it's just not there.

00:31:36   And so I'm only gonna go to it when I'm actively choosing

00:31:39   to go to it for whatever reason that might be.

00:31:42   And when I did that for a week,

00:31:44   like the first week that I was doing that

00:31:45   where I was really trying to focus on it,

00:31:47   I kind of got down to around three, three and a bit hours.

00:31:50   And so I was really only checking Twitter

00:31:53   like once or twice a day for that,

00:31:55   or just posting things, you know, not reading.

00:31:57   And then would just read specific times that I had chosen

00:32:01   as opposed to just whenever I want to fill 20 seconds,

00:32:04   right, which was my usual thing.

00:32:07   And so I was like, okay, I want to try

00:32:09   and get around there again.

00:32:10   So I'd been averaging more around four hours.

00:32:13   And I feel better for having done that.

00:32:16   I feel like I'm spending less time,

00:32:18   less time in my life just like really just wanting to see

00:32:21   what's going on or not even caring,

00:32:23   but just opening the app anyway, right?

00:32:26   And you know, like I did that whole thing

00:32:27   where I moved a different app to my dock

00:32:29   in its place where Twitter would have been

00:32:31   and was just constantly surprising myself

00:32:33   for a four day period when I would press the Twitter app,

00:32:36   but something else would be open instead, right?

00:32:39   - Right, right. (laughs)

00:32:41   - And I've left Twitter off my home screen,

00:32:43   so I've put a different app in its place

00:32:47   that I'm enjoying it being there.

00:32:49   It's like forcing me to open it.

00:32:51   And that's working for me,

00:32:54   but I'm just trying to keep my numbers down

00:32:57   with the intention of reducing them further, I think.

00:33:00   I like Twitter, I don't want to leave Twitter.

00:33:03   Like I'm not one of those kinds of people,

00:33:04   but I just feel like I want to limit the amount of time

00:33:07   that I spend in that application,

00:33:10   just because it is so high in that list.

00:33:13   Especially when I've said this before many times,

00:33:15   when it comes to social networks,

00:33:17   I much prefer Instagram the way Instagram makes me feel.

00:33:20   I know that this is different for different people,

00:33:22   but for me personally, I just prefer Instagram.

00:33:24   So I've tried to have those numbers be closer together

00:33:29   by initially increasing my Instagram usage,

00:33:32   which, you know, whatever, it worked,

00:33:36   but now I wanna bring the Twitter usage down as well.

00:33:40   And they're very different, right?

00:33:42   And the reasons I use them are very different.

00:33:44   And sometimes, and a lot of the time,

00:33:46   I am getting a lot of what I consider to be important

00:33:49   and useful information for my job from Twitter,

00:33:52   which is one of the reasons that I use it

00:33:54   and have no intention of leaving.

00:33:55   But I am just trying to find ways to still just limit

00:33:59   how much time is being spent with the application open

00:34:03   when there is no real value to it.

00:34:05   - Yeah, I think a lot of people really fool themselves

00:34:09   about how valuable Twitter is for their work.

00:34:12   I think I know a lot of people

00:34:15   who I think are really kidding themselves about that, but I- I can make a case for why

00:34:20   it is valuable to you. Like, I don't think you fall into that category of like, "Oh,

00:34:24   Myke, you're just being silly about this and it's not actually valuable to you at all."

00:34:27   I think with all of the shows you do and the things that you talk about on those shows,

00:34:31   like, yes, Twitter- Twitter is a useful source of information for you. It's just like with

00:34:37   all of these things, the problem is that they catch you for more than you intend to spend

00:34:43   with them, right, which is all of their explicit goals of like, you know, "Oh hey, we'd love

00:34:48   love you to check Twitter every time you have 20 seconds free.

00:34:51   Is this a productive use of your time?"

00:34:52   Of course not, but like we sure do love engagement.

00:34:55   It is funny like you have to be careful about what you're trying to optimize for, you know,

00:34:59   "Oh I would like Instagram and Twitter to be more equal so I'm gonna increase the amount

00:35:02   of time I spend on Instagram."

00:35:03   No, like again I think it's good that you're keeping an eye on it and I feel I feel it's

00:35:08   good that like overall you have it in a place that you think the amount of time is worth

00:35:16   it and actually valuable to you that you're spending on it and not just like casually

00:35:20   having it open all day to get distracted by whatever people happen to be talking about

00:35:24   in the moment.

00:35:25   Yeah and it's like I've done a lot of work with different applications and different

00:35:30   things to reduce the reliance you know like using RSS readers and stuff and my RSS reader

00:35:35   it doesn't show up on here, but that doesn't surprise me,

00:35:38   'cause I don't really read a lot in the RSS reader,

00:35:40   like it's my first triage of news,

00:35:42   and then we'll send that out to Notes

00:35:45   for reading later in Safari,

00:35:47   like on show prep days and stuff like that.

00:35:48   - Ah, okay, yeah, I was wondering where Reader was

00:35:51   on this list, 'cause it doesn't make it

00:35:52   into 26 minutes worth of stuff,

00:35:54   so you're just throwing whatever comes in there.

00:35:57   - Honestly, I was surprised that it didn't even make it

00:35:59   into that, like above 26 minutes or whatever,

00:36:03   But at the same time, you know, I'm like checking it a couple of times a week,

00:36:08   really.

00:36:09   And mostly just looking at the headlines of interest to me and sending them out

00:36:12   somewhere else. But Hey, for all I know, I used it the most and it's just a bug.

00:36:16   Maybe RSS.art19.com is actually a reader.

00:36:19   It's very possible.

00:36:27   Discord is a newer one on my list.

00:36:30   And I presume that's the relay discord. That's what you're talking about.

00:36:32   using the Relay members Discord and also just like for me in general I'm just

00:36:36   spending more time in Discord anyway like as in like with the main interest in

00:36:40   mechanical keyboards that all goes down in Discords.

00:36:43   Oh right right.

00:36:45   And this honestly was a lighter week for me with Discord. Discord's usually much higher than that.

00:36:50   In other weeks more recently Discord and Twitter have been much much closer.

00:36:55   So again I don't know what was going on this week but in other weeks Discord

00:37:00   has been around four hours and Twitter has been around four hours that's

00:37:03   becoming more of a thing and honestly that's something I quite like. So again

00:37:09   like looking at the combination of Discord, Instagram and RSS I can use my

00:37:15   RSS reader as ways to increase my usage there get the information I want whilst

00:37:22   decreasing reliance on Twitter I think has been working pretty good for me in

00:37:26   general recently and I like that as a thing to continue going forward.

00:37:31   And the Twitch I assume is your actual streaming of keyboard construction?

00:37:34   No, that's me watching stuff.

00:37:37   Oh, okay, that's you watching Twitch, that's you watching keyboards being built up.

00:37:40   Because all the streaming is going on on my PC, right?

00:37:43   Oh, of course, right, right.

00:37:44   Again, it's been a big 2020, 2021 thing for me is like watching a lot more Twitch streams

00:37:48   in general because Twitch app is so good, so good, picture in picture and all that stuff.

00:37:53   Although I wouldn't be surprised if as soon as you go into picture in picture it stops

00:37:56   tracking in screen time anyway, so the number's probably way higher than that.

00:38:02   Yeah it's quite possible.

00:38:03   I was just looking at the pickup numbers, and this is also just one of these things

00:38:08   where I wonder...

00:38:09   Okay, so pickup is obviously referring to iOS and iPad devices, like that makes sense.

00:38:16   I wonder, like, does it or should it count something like screen unlocks on the Mac as

00:38:23   a pickup?

00:38:24   I wonder, I wonder if it's tracking that data at all.

00:38:27   Like how many times do you unlock the screen on your Mac?

00:38:29   I wonder if that's in there or not, but, um, well, there is kind of like pickups is a thing.

00:38:35   It is a thing on the Mac side, but I don't know what on earth it's judging that against.

00:38:42   But if I look at my Mac statistics, I have pickup there.

00:38:46   So this is first used after pickup.

00:38:48   My assumption is like first used after unlock.

00:38:53   'Cause that's what's happening on the iPhone

00:38:55   and the iPad anyway, right?

00:38:57   You're picking up the device, unlocking it,

00:38:59   and then where do you go first?

00:39:01   And I think it's the same on the Mac.

00:39:04   It's just poorly named for the Mac.

00:39:09   - Yeah, or we need to do a side by side test.

00:39:13   Like do you need to physically pick up the laptop?

00:39:15   Is that what it's counting?

00:39:16   And like if you physically pick up your iMac,

00:39:18   then it counts as a pickup.

00:39:19   - Yeah, it's like, oh, okay.

00:39:21   That's what, it actually does mean that.

00:39:23   It's the app you use when your Mac

00:39:25   is suspended above a desk.

00:39:27   - Yeah, I should check if I was running screen time

00:39:29   on my iMac Pro in front of me, it's like,

00:39:31   well, the number of times I pick it up in a week isn't zero.

00:39:34   Like I need to reach behind it

00:39:36   to mess with the cable sometimes.

00:39:37   Like I wonder if it would register it.

00:39:38   I was like, you picked it up once this week.

00:39:40   (laughing)

00:39:41   - And then you used Skype.

00:39:43   (laughing)

00:39:45   - But yeah, I think like that first pickup data

00:39:47   seems pretty unsurprising really for the most of it.

00:39:51   Messages and Instagram and Slack and Overcast.

00:39:54   - It's important to me for Twitter to be low in the list.

00:39:58   Because if Twitter's lower in the list,

00:40:00   what it means is even though I'm spending more time on it,

00:40:03   I'm spending more time that's most likely

00:40:05   to be purposeful time of using Twitter.

00:40:08   - Right, yeah, that's a good way to think about it.

00:40:11   - Right, like I want the pickup numbers to be lower

00:40:13   because that means the amount of times I've opened Twitter

00:40:17   when I first unlocked my device is less and that's good

00:40:21   'cause that's less aimless time, I feel, to me.

00:40:24   Did you see "The Economist" in there, Gray?

00:40:28   - Well, yes, I did see "The Economist" in there.

00:40:29   I wasn't sure if you wanted to mention that or not, but...

00:40:33   - We can mention that.

00:40:35   I was given a very nice gift for my birthday

00:40:37   of a subscription to The Economist.

00:40:39   - Yeah, this is sort of a holdover

00:40:41   from one of our more text conversations

00:40:44   where we were talking about the news

00:40:46   and Myke was thinking about news sources to follow.

00:40:50   And it just so happened that your birthday was coming up

00:40:54   and I was discussing your quest for the news with my wife.

00:40:58   And then she suggested,

00:40:59   oh, why don't we get Myke a subscription to The Economist?

00:41:02   And part of the reason why I thought

00:41:05   this might actually work is because I know you're not a big fan of reading, but they

00:41:11   do a reading, a podcast like reading of all of the articles that they publish every week.

00:41:16   And so I thought, Oh, Myke might actually listen to that.

00:41:19   I'm actually kind of curious if you have or haven't, um, or are you actually reading like

00:41:25   the app on your phone?

00:41:26   So I've tried the podcasts and I typically do not like them like the readings, um, the

00:41:33   readings, they're too slow for that data.

00:41:38   Are you listening to them in the app? In the Economist app?

00:41:41   Yeah.

00:41:42   Ah, okay.

00:41:43   But what I actually really like about the Economist app is every article tells you how long it's going to take you to read it.

00:41:50   I really like that feature.

00:41:52   So what I do is every day I read their little, they have like a little morning digest, which I like.

00:41:57   It's like here's everything that happened in the world yesterday that you should probably know about.

00:42:01   and then they have just a couple of articles a week

00:42:04   and then they have the magazine articles that you can read.

00:42:08   And so I just dip in when I have a little bit of free time.

00:42:11   This is the app that is living

00:42:13   where Twitter used to live on my phone.

00:42:15   - Oh, okay.

00:42:16   - Right, and I'll maybe go in

00:42:18   and I'll see if any articles are of interest to me

00:42:20   and I'll read them.

00:42:21   But I'm also at the same time

00:42:23   a little bit more informed about the world

00:42:25   because every day I'm reading something about world news

00:42:28   and I like it.

00:42:29   It's a good mix for me.

00:42:32   I feel like as far as news sources go,

00:42:35   seems to be pretty fair.

00:42:38   I don't really feel like it takes particular sides,

00:42:42   or maybe it just matches with my own thoughts

00:42:47   on certain topics that are of interest to me,

00:42:50   but I've really enjoyed the stuff that I've been reading

00:42:53   over the last couple of months, so very good gift.

00:42:55   - Yeah, it's a funny thing

00:42:57   because I haven't actually read The Economist myself in like...

00:43:00   five years probably at this point.

00:43:04   It's just funny like to make a recommendation to you of

00:43:08   "I think this might be the thing that you feel like you're looking for"

00:43:11   which is a relatively straight factual—

00:43:17   like the very thing that you're saying there.

00:43:19   I know they have the section which is "here's what happened yesterday"

00:43:21   or like "here's what's coming up in this week"

00:43:24   and I thought like, "It sounds like what you're looking for."

00:43:28   But also, I don't have any idea what this is like now.

00:43:31   I only have my vague memory of what it was like years ago

00:43:34   when I read it more frequently, so...

00:43:37   I'm glad that you're liking it so far.

00:43:39   It's an interesting idea to put something like that in the location where Twitter was

00:43:44   as the replacement checking app.

00:43:47   So, I'll be curious to see how that goes for you, but...

00:43:50   It's going very well so far. I'm enjoying it very much.

00:43:53   Oh good.

00:43:54   You know, happy birthday.

00:43:57   Thank you.

00:43:58   I get a lot of iMessages I think we can say for a second.

00:44:02   I mean, do you get this many iMessages?

00:44:04   No.

00:44:05   Like this notifications number, you're pushing close to a thousand iMessages, you don't think

00:44:10   that's an accurate representation of what your week looks like?

00:44:13   I expect it's somewhere between half and this number, right?

00:44:18   So maybe it's five, six hundred, something like that.

00:44:22   But that's just the notifications because I have a I'm in some group threads that I do not disturb on for

00:44:27   So, you know what? It probably is more than the 800 number

00:44:31   That's just an amount notifications that I get I better get more iMessages in a week than that actually

00:44:35   Because some of the more chatty threads that I'm in I don't have notifications on for

00:44:40   I think this is the biggest part where I look at our differences in screen time

00:44:47   And this is the one where it's like I just couldn't live your life. I don't know. I don't know how

00:44:50   Well, like communicating people. That's all I'm doing. That's like, what do you mean?

00:44:56   You couldn't live my life. More people's screens would be like mine than yours, I bet.

00:45:00   But I suppose you know that.

00:45:01   I'm fully aware that my screen time data will be a statistical outlier compared to the median

00:45:07   screen time data. But when you say like, "Oh, these are the notifications I get," and then

00:45:12   you casually remember like, "Oh yeah, but I'm in a bunch of those really chatty groups

00:45:15   where I turn off notifications." Like, I can't conceive of what a group must be like for

00:45:19   you to feel like you need to turn off the notifications in that group chat.

00:45:24   [Laughter]

00:45:24   I just imagine it's 20 people talking constantly all day about everything.

00:45:31   [Laughter]

00:45:31   Four people, of which I'm one.

00:45:33   Okay.

00:45:34   And, you know, it's like that sometimes you might be away for a while and you come back

00:45:38   and you have 50 unread messages from the group.

00:45:41   That's horrifying. I don't think I'm in any group chat that's more than three. I think

00:45:46   all of my group chats are three and if the other two people are talking and I ever come back and

00:45:53   it's like oh there are 18 messages in this group I'm always like oh I can't catch up with this

00:45:58   forget it like but this is also why I'm not in very many group chats because I'm a terrible

00:46:04   participant as well. Well if it gets to high double digits or in the dreaded triple digit

00:46:10   I do that too I'm like I'm not reading this okay but it has to get up to that far for me. Honestly

00:46:15   the next one in my notifications this is the one I'm most embarrassed about which is the clock

00:46:19   so why I presume that's timers that would be my guess is it must be timers right

00:46:24   that's alarms in the morning oh my god okay that's are you are you saying that 240 is 240 snoozes

00:46:34   is that what you're telling me okay so I sent that's amazing like eight alarms every day okay

00:46:41   going off every 10 minutes and I'll set those depending on what you should see my my alarm

00:46:47   app is just like there's an alarm for every 10 minutes from like 7 to 11 and I just go through

00:46:54   and tick whatever ones I need for that next day uh and I'll just set like eight and I just

00:47:00   I snooze those things like you would not believe I mean apparently I'm really bad at waking up

00:47:07   I'm really bad at it.

00:47:10   I've gotten worse.

00:47:11   And I think it's 'cause I haven't had the studio.

00:47:13   - I didn't know this about you.

00:47:15   But this is also so confusing

00:47:16   because your whole day is scooched so late.

00:47:20   Like it's inconceivable to me

00:47:22   that you wouldn't wake up in time

00:47:24   for any of the things that you need to do.

00:47:26   Like I don't even understand

00:47:27   why you need all of these alarms.

00:47:28   - Because I still want to have a day before.

00:47:31   You know, I don't want to wake.

00:47:33   Like look, if I actually lived my life

00:47:36   way it made the most sense. I would wake up at noon but I don't want to live that life.

00:47:42   Like I want to be up between nine and ten and have a morning, right? Like I don't want

00:47:46   to be up in the afternoon and so I just, you know, do this terrible alarm situation.

00:47:52   Okay, but wait, so you go to bed at what, like two or three in the morning? Is that

00:47:56   right? Is that between two and three bedtime for you? Yeah. Okay. So I have to always have

00:48:00   to count out hours on my fingers like I'm a child. That's what that was.

00:48:05   It's like six to seven hours of sleep for me, mostly.

00:48:08   So six to seven hours.

00:48:09   - Okay, so what you're telling me here is,

00:48:13   if you went to bed at two and you didn't set any alarms,

00:48:18   you wouldn't wake up until noon.

00:48:20   Is that like, am I interpreting this data correctly?

00:48:23   - At least, Gray, I would sleep like you would not believe.

00:48:27   I've been this way since I was a kid.

00:48:30   If you leave me, I will just keep sleeping.

00:48:33   And it's not like I wake up and I'm like,

00:48:35   "Ooh, what time is it?

00:48:36   Oh, I'll go back to bed."

00:48:37   No, I just don't wake up.

00:48:39   - You don't find this a little alarming

00:48:41   that you seem to need 10 to 12 hours of sleep,

00:48:46   but you're cutting that down through alarms to six hours.

00:48:49   - Great, what the hell can I do about that?

00:48:51   Like, what?

00:48:52   Like if someone tells you,

00:48:53   "Oh, if you had 12 hours of sleep a day,

00:48:56   you would feel so much better."

00:48:57   Yeah, but it's 12 hours of sleep.

00:48:59   Like, what the fuck am I supposed to do?

00:49:02   I can't have that!

00:49:03   - But it also seems like your alarms

00:49:05   aren't very effective anyway,

00:49:06   if you've got 240 snoozes over the course of a week.

00:49:10   - Hey look, no, what we've learned is

00:49:13   it just takes 240 alarms to get me up, right, a week.

00:49:18   - Okay. - But I'm up, right?

00:49:19   I'm here, aren't I?

00:49:20   - I mean, yeah, I guess.

00:49:22   I'm just finding this very alarming and concerning

00:49:25   and I didn't know this about you.

00:49:28   - Just 'cause you've never tried to wake me up?

00:49:30   Yeah, I hope we're not in a situation where I ever have to wake you up.

00:49:34   Hey Myke, pssst, wake up, wake up buddy, it's time to get up.

00:49:37   Hey, look, it could happen.

00:49:38   You're gonna get snooze on my face 240 times.

00:49:41   It's not outside of the realm of possibility, I mean, I don't know exactly what would

00:49:45   have to happen for that to occur, but I don't know.

00:49:49   Another thing about me when it comes to sleep, if I have to, like if I have something which

00:49:55   is unmovable, I get up like you would not believe.

00:50:00   If I'm catching a plane, I am awake on the first alarm

00:50:04   and I am ready to go.

00:50:06   - At least you have that.

00:50:07   - If we're talking regular day, it doesn't help that

00:50:10   most of what I have to do in a day

00:50:12   doesn't happen until after lunch.

00:50:14   When I say have to, it's like people are relying on me,

00:50:17   as in someone's waiting for me for something.

00:50:20   So my brain is just like, ah, this is movable,

00:50:24   this is flexible, you're fine, just sleep a bit more.

00:50:27   That's what's going on.

00:50:29   - I still, I feel like I still think

00:50:32   you should let yourself sleep more.

00:50:34   And like the evidence of the snoozes

00:50:36   is the evidence of that.

00:50:37   Like whatever you're doing, like set your first alarm

00:50:42   two hours later than whenever you're trying

00:50:45   to make it happen.

00:50:46   Like it's very concerning.

00:50:48   I think you should sleep until noon.

00:50:51   - The way, no, that's mad, that's not gonna do that.

00:50:54   But what I need to do is, and eventually I'm gonna have to do this, like I know that time

00:50:57   is coming for me sooner rather than later, is go to bed earlier.

00:51:01   Okay.

00:51:02   That's the thing that has to happen, is I have to go to bed earlier.

00:51:05   And I think that the, like I say, things have gotten worse more recently, and I do believe

00:51:12   it's the studio.

00:51:13   I think that- It's the lack of studio.

00:51:16   Yeah, when I'm coming back here I'm gonna start getting more tired earlier again, because

00:51:20   It's more movement in my day, it's more activity.

00:51:23   And plus, I wanna be up earlier,

00:51:26   like and I will get up earlier,

00:51:27   'cause I wanna make sure that I'm here

00:51:29   with a good time, right?

00:51:31   So that kind of thing, like I woke up way easier today

00:51:35   than I have any other day this week,

00:51:37   because I wanted to be here.

00:51:38   Like I was like, I know in my mind,

00:51:39   it's like, well, I've gotta get that 10 o'clock train,

00:51:42   because otherwise, it's just all too late at that point.

00:51:47   So I think that will help.

00:51:50   And then the fact that I will be waking up earlier

00:51:53   will force me to go to bed earlier too.

00:51:56   And then that will, maybe I'll get down to, I don't know,

00:51:59   200 alarms.

00:52:00   (laughing)

00:52:01   Rather than two more.

00:52:03   - I like this.

00:52:04   You'll go to bed earlier, you'll be less on New York time,

00:52:07   because I think my favorite thing that happened this week

00:52:09   is you told me that the journals were gonna go on sale

00:52:12   at 9 a.m.

00:52:12   And so I've messaged you at 9 a.m. about like,

00:52:15   "Oh yay, the journals are going on sale."

00:52:16   And you messaged me back and said,

00:52:18   "Oh no, I meant 9 a.m. New York time."

00:52:20   Yeah, well, see, 'cause this is the thing, Gray.

00:52:22   What the fuck?

00:52:23   How was I supposed to know you meant East Coast time?

00:52:26   I didn't call you on it,

00:52:28   but why don't you go back

00:52:29   and read the original message I sent to you

00:52:31   where I specifically said 9 a.m. Eastern.

00:52:34   Oh, goddammit.

00:52:35   Did you?

00:52:36   Yes, and I just decided not to bother calling you out

00:52:38   on it on message,

00:52:39   but now you're trying to put me on blast.

00:52:41   I said to you, "I sent this in Slack,

00:52:43   "but forgot to tell you here.

00:52:45   "Journals go on sale at 9 a.m. Eastern tomorrow."

00:52:49   - Well, how was I supposed to catch that Easter?

00:52:51   That's ridiculous.

00:52:52   - Well, I wrote it down.

00:52:53   (laughing)

00:52:55   That's how you supposed to catch it.

00:52:57   When you sent me that message at 9 a.m.

00:53:00   I was like, "Oh, he's here, you got it."

00:53:01   And I was like, "Oh, I realize what he's done."

00:53:03   (laughing)

00:53:06   You got a lot of time to wait, yeah.

00:53:07   It's hours.

00:53:09   (laughing)

00:53:10   - It genuinely was annoying

00:53:12   'cause I wanted to know how the sales were going.

00:53:14   (laughing)

00:53:15   I'm like, "Oh my God, I got six hours to wait to find out."

00:53:19   [laughter]

00:53:20   >> My bad.

00:53:24   This episode is brought to you by Inside the Breakthrough, a new history of science podcast

00:53:29   full of "Did You Know?" stuff, like did you know that Marie Curie wasn't French?

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00:53:46   It's historical wisdom mixed with modern insight.

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00:54:24   I really enjoyed listening to this show, it sounds fantastic, there's a bunch of really

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00:55:05   Come on in, send me yours.

00:55:07   I don't think I've got anything else interesting on here.

00:55:09   Oh, can I send this to you on Skype?

00:55:11   No, why would you do that?

00:55:13   No, I'm gonna send it to you on Skype, because I don't have iMessages on this computer.

00:55:16   Okay. Wait, what do you mean you have iMessages on your computer? How is that possible?

00:55:22   This is- no, this is the comp- okay. Listen. The computer that I'm talking to you on, this is my

00:55:29   writing computer, and it is my podcasting computer, because it just- with the way I

00:55:36   want to arrange the sound paneling, it makes sense to use that computer as the same thing.

00:55:40   So on my writing computer, I don't have any communication tools installed other than Skype

00:55:48   for these podcasts. So I don't have iMessage installed, I don't have email installed,

00:55:53   I don't have anything installed. And so if we're ever sending little messages back and forth on

00:55:58   iMessage, like I'm using my phone for that, but I have all of these screen crimes images saved on

00:56:05   my desktop. And so the easiest way to drop you eight images at once, because I didn't put them

00:56:09   together in a nice little tile is through Skype. So I think it's very sensible. But just so you

00:56:14   understand what you're looking at here, the again, because I've just found it to be a horrible buggy

00:56:20   mess. I don't share the data between my devices. I don't run screen time on the Macs. And so the

00:56:30   things that I collected data for were my phone, which is one of those. And then this iPad, which

00:56:38   The name of the iPad is "Admin iPad" but that's from a long time ago.

00:56:44   The actual name of that iPad should be "Couchpad".

00:56:48   This is the couch iPad that I have and that I pick up like when I'm couching.

00:56:53   So this is where my data is from.

00:56:55   These are two separate ones here.

00:56:58   There are two separate things.

00:57:00   It's the narrower stuff is all of the iPhone stuff and the thicker stuff is the couchpad data.

00:57:08   Now Myke, just like you wanted to start out with your story of why the data is wrong,

00:57:16   I have the same story.

00:57:17   So this week where I got the data was an unusual week for a variety of reasons.

00:57:26   One of them was, and I'm sure I will get much sympathy from you for this, I had either a

00:57:32   a phone call or a FaceTime meeting every day last week.

00:57:40   There was one a day for seven days in a row.

00:57:45   Poor thing.

00:57:46   Which is just, it's very unusual.

00:57:49   I really can't stand that and it's incredibly draining and frustrating.

00:57:55   It's like, oh my god, every day I need to talk to someone?

00:57:59   It's too much.

00:58:00   It's way too much, but sometimes just trying to arrange people and calls and like family

00:58:05   things, it's just completely unavoidable.

00:58:08   But what I thought is, well, at least in the screen time data, I'm going to look popular

00:58:14   this week, right?

00:58:15   There's going to be lots of phone calls and lots of FaceTime.

00:58:21   But if you look in that data, phone calls and FaceTime are nowhere to be found.

00:58:28   like, Thursday, I was on the phone for three hours. Is their phone registered anywhere?

00:58:36   No! FaceTime calls with people multiple hours? No, it's absolutely nowhere. This again is just

00:58:43   one of these totally baffling things. What did I do with this s*** for if I'm not gonna get the

00:58:48   credit for it? Yeah, they're like, I'm not gonna lie, I definitely have this little feeling of

00:58:56   I can't believe I had to do this much talking and I'm going to get literally zero credit for it

00:59:01   on Screen Crimes Week because it just wasn't recorded. None of it. It wasn't recorded. Like,

00:59:07   the FaceTiming on the iPad? Nope, never happened. You know, the calls on the phone? Never happened.

00:59:13   And it's like, I was just trying to think, is this like the intended behavior? Because I flipped all

00:59:23   of the switches in the settings to try and always allow me to be able to talk to everyone.

00:59:30   Like I've tried to make that as permissive as possible.

00:59:33   So it's like, is this on purpose?

00:59:36   If I flip these switches that say I can talk to people, does Screen Time not record the

00:59:43   time as their way of getting around?

00:59:45   Like I have no idea, but it's just incredibly frustrating that this data is not present.

00:59:53   And just, again, another one of these cases where it's weird and buggy and doesn't

00:59:58   give a good picture of what is actually occurring.

01:00:02   And so even though literally all of my numbers are like an order of magnitude less than yours,

01:00:09   that's not an accurate representation of the use of these devices.

01:00:14   So like things are being undercounted in a super frustrating way.

01:00:18   But anyway, you have the screen time data that I was able to collect on my phone and

01:00:25   on my iPad separately.

01:00:27   So yeah, what do you think of this, Myke?

01:00:30   So I feel like we live in very different worlds.

01:00:33   Yeah, they all have things to look super different.

01:00:36   I imagine you would do in some kind of filming thing because you have two hours in the camera,

01:00:42   20 minutes in the GoPro app, so I assumed something was going on there.

01:00:46   Yeah, yeah, so well last time we had the little diversion we were discussing GoPro and

01:00:52   DJI's action cameras and it's like, oh yes, I'm quite familiar with GoPro and the rest of it. So

01:00:59   last week I was trying some filming for some outdoor stuff which is why the GoPro was up

01:01:06   and I haven't made any video with it yet, but in my home office I have this

01:01:12   little semi-experimental overhead shooting rig, which doesn't work great so far.

01:01:22   It turns out trying to shoot things overhead is an enormous pain in the ass for a huge number

01:01:28   of reasons that you don't think about until you try to set up a real overhead shooting location.

01:01:34   Let me talk to you about the struggles I've had with my Twitch channel.

01:01:38   Oh, of course!

01:01:39   Overhead is very important, right?

01:01:41   For the keyboard stuff.

01:01:42   But I think I might have finally gotten where I want to be with that.

01:01:45   What are you using for your overhead?

01:01:46   I just got a camera, like a Sony camera.

01:01:49   Okay, so you're just using the output of a Sony camera?

01:01:51   Yeah, into, well I mean it's all going into a PC, right?

01:01:54   So it's all way easier.

01:01:55   I have a HDMI capture card.

01:01:57   It's nice, nice.

01:01:59   And then I just stream all of Streamlabs from my PC.

01:02:02   I've been trying to avoid having a real camera as the overhead camera, but I think if this

01:02:07   is a thing that I end up doing, I might have to go that way.

01:02:11   I was using a decent webcam for a while, and it was okay.

01:02:15   It was doing the job.

01:02:18   But I wanted to have more flexibility and ultimately a better picture, so I ended up

01:02:24   going with an actual Sony camera.

01:02:26   I got an A6400.

01:02:28   It's the one that I went with.

01:02:31   Yeah, I don't know, maybe I'll end up that way, but I can say at the very least, two

01:02:37   hours of the camera app being open in a week, this is not a typical week.

01:02:43   This is a crazy abnormal use of the camera, but for the most part it was sitting in this

01:02:50   clamp floating above my desk as I concentrated very hard for it to not move at all as I was

01:02:57   trying to have a frame that was exactly the same every time for different takes of things.

01:03:02   How are you suspending it then? What are you doing there?

01:03:05   I've got one of these clamp arm things that I just tightened up as much as possible to

01:03:10   try to keep it in place. Let me give you a great tip. Clamp the boom

01:03:15   arm to a different desk. Oh, yes. I know what you mean. Yeah. That

01:03:21   the thing that is holding the camera over what you're shooting should not be connected

01:03:26   to the desk that the thing is on.

01:03:29   I completely agree that I would love to do that.

01:03:31   My office setup makes it difficult to have that occur, but I've been looking into options

01:03:37   where it's like, maybe I can just have something that's on the ground and achieve the same

01:03:41   purpose.

01:03:42   Yeah, you could just get a C-stand with a sandbag weight on it or something.

01:03:45   I was looking into a bunch of different things, obviously, for the streaming stuff that I've

01:03:48   been doing.

01:03:49   And what I ended up doing was I have this little cart, which is just parked next to

01:03:53   my desk where I can put a bunch of half-finished projects on and I just clamp a boom arm to

01:03:58   that. So I can wobble the table as much as I want and it never shakes the camera. This

01:04:04   is when I'm at the studio. When I'm at home it's like all bets are off. But when I pass

01:04:08   a bit at the studio, when I was streaming from the studio that's how I do it. And then

01:04:12   I can move my desk as much as I want and nothing moves because it's fixed to this cart. But

01:04:17   if I didn't do that I was going to go with like a C-stand route. So it's just basically

01:04:22   the floor right like that's where it's coming from and then over hanging over

01:04:25   the desk and especially if you're using an iPhone which I reckon you should

01:04:29   probably just keep doing for a while I mean I don't use an iPhone because it's

01:04:31   not really feasible for streaming right like it there are apps I tried out this

01:04:35   like app that Elgato bought they bought an application where you can use your

01:04:40   phone cameras to stream from and I just couldn't get it to work reliably but if

01:04:45   you continue just using the phone you don't have to worry about a ton of

01:04:49   of weight on the C-stand because phones aren't that heavy. If you've got an actual camera

01:04:55   you're gonna need to think more about the weight of it but yeah I'd either get a C-stand

01:05:00   or a tripod that has an extending arm and you'd be totally fine because the phone's

01:05:03   so light but that's what I'd recommend from you to put it on the floor then if the desk

01:05:08   isn't right because if you're trying to do things over a long period of time I can imagine

01:05:12   maybe it's meant to be sped up a little bit or whatever and you see it in a lot of movement

01:05:16   in the image.

01:05:18   And that's just not gonna work.

01:05:22   Well, I also made a terrible mistake that it didn't occur to me until halfway through

01:05:28   where I was like, okay, there's a bunch of things that I want to shoot.

01:05:31   I thought, okay, it's probably going to take two days.

01:05:36   That was my mental estimate.

01:05:37   Spoiler alert, we're on day four, of course.

01:05:40   But when I initially set it up and I was thinking, oh, two days, that's cool.

01:05:45   "Okay, fine. I know what I'll do. Okay, let me grab my phone, of course the phone with the best camera, and clamp it in there,

01:05:52   'cause I'd like, you know, the best image that I can get."

01:05:54   And it was only at the end of the day that it occurred to me,

01:05:57   "Oh, you idiot, you know you use this phone, right? Like, this isn't just a camera."

01:06:02   You have to take it out of this clamp, and then try to clamp it back in tomorrow in the exact same spot,

01:06:09   which is never going to work in a million years.

01:06:12   And so I was like, okay, now I'll just wait.

01:06:14   I just won't use my phone at all.

01:06:15   And I'll leave it in the clamp overnight

01:06:17   and I'll shoot first thing next morning.

01:06:18   It's like, but there was more work

01:06:20   than you thought there was.

01:06:21   And you can't not use your phone for three days.

01:06:24   So I had to cave and take it out.

01:06:26   And of course you can never get it set back up

01:06:28   the same way again.

01:06:29   So lesson is also learned that if I'm going to have

01:06:32   an overhead shooting rig, I should use one of the old phones

01:06:37   that I don't need as the actual camera.

01:06:39   instead of putting my phone in there like a total moron who didn't think about it ahead of time.

01:06:45   Yeah especially because like the only real tangible use of say last year or the year before

01:06:50   will be HDR and you don't want to shoot in HDR anyway. Oh Myke, we can't we can't do it now but

01:06:58   someday we'll talk about HDR. We'll talk about the nightmare, the nightmare of HDR but not today.

01:07:08   I'm not emotionally prepared to discuss that.

01:07:12   But yes, so this is why camera use is so high, it's also why GoPro, which is normally not

01:07:18   there, is existent as well, so that's what was going on with my phone.

01:07:22   It was helping me try to shoot some stuff for potentially a Grey Goes Outside kind of

01:07:28   video and also an experimental indoors overhead shoot kind of video, which may or may not

01:07:34   ever come to fruition depending on how much longer this actually takes me to accomplish.

01:07:39   - What is Portal? - Portal is another

01:07:42   white noise application. There's been a bit of disagreement in the household about the exact

01:07:50   sleeping white noise sound, and so there was an odyssey of exploration searching for alternative

01:07:57   white noise sounds. And the Portal app is one that ended up being settled on as like, "Oh, okay,

01:08:04   this is an acceptable nighttime white noise. So that's what that one is there.

01:08:09   - I'm gonna look here, it's interesting. Files is in there, that's just weird.

01:08:13   It's weird to see apps like that. Like, what are you doing here, Files? Like, why are you here?

01:08:18   - What are you... Okay, no, this is all very explainable, right? So the reason...

01:08:23   Okay, well, actually, maybe now that I think about it, maybe it's less explainable.

01:08:28   Okay, let me tell you about this Jenga tower that I have built for myself about how real life videos

01:08:33   get into Final Cut.

01:08:37   So you go out into the world like, "Ooh, I'm gonna shoot something in the real world."

01:08:41   You're on your phone shooting, shooting, shooting.

01:08:43   Great.

01:08:44   Got some videos.

01:08:45   What I've ended up building is this system that uses iCloud sync combined with Hazel

01:08:57   as a way to automatically rename and organize and tag all of the real life footage that

01:09:06   I shoot.

01:09:07   So you may remember ages ago I had a real problem with the way my files were named when

01:09:13   I was trying to put together that road trip vlog that cost me months of working on it.

01:09:18   - Oh yeah.

01:09:19   Wasn't there like they renamed and then it all broke or something?

01:09:24   Yeah, there was a namespace collision problem where multiple files had the same names and

01:09:30   it like, it doesn't matter, it ended up costing me months because I didn't have a good way

01:09:34   to organize my footage.

01:09:36   So I have since really solved that problem.

01:09:41   I like really solved this problem.

01:09:43   I haven't just solved this problem, I have really solved it.

01:09:47   It couldn't be more solved than what I've done.

01:09:50   It couldn't be more solved.

01:09:53   It really couldn't be more solved.

01:09:54   You've over-solved, haven't you?

01:09:56   What you've done.

01:09:58   Okay so here's the workflow.

01:10:00   Shoot a video.

01:10:02   Now that video gets saved into a folder which is called 'Ingest' on iCloud Drive.

01:10:10   And so the reason that it's showing up in the phone is that one of the easiest ways

01:10:15   to get videos off the phone is to just select them in photos and then save to files.

01:10:22   So that's why it's showing up on my screen time there, as you have used files on your

01:10:27   phone, which is not something that I would normally do.

01:10:30   But it's to put the videos into the right place.

01:10:34   And then once they're in files on my phone, it does seem to take a long time, but whatever,

01:10:39   I'm never going to rush with this process.

01:10:42   Eventually those videos distribute themselves throughout the whole iCloud system, and then

01:10:47   eventually make it onto my, like, server computer, which is also this writing computer. It's

01:10:55   the one that's just on all the time.

01:10:57   The writing computer does an awful lot for it just to be called a writing computer. The

01:11:01   writing computer is the podcasting computer and the always-on file server in the home.

01:11:05   Yeah, that makes sense. It makes cool sense.

01:11:08   The natural trio there.

01:11:10   Yeah, I think everyone knows those three things go together. You have file server, writing,

01:11:16   and podcasting.

01:11:17   certain point it would just be "what are the things the computer doesn't do" would be

01:11:21   an easier way to describe what the computer is. So really it's just the non-communication

01:11:26   computer.

01:11:27   B: Yes, if you want to put it that way, that's true. It is the non-communication computer.

01:11:32   Except of course for the communication that we're doing right now. So anyway, back to

01:11:36   the writing computer. That downloads the videos into the ingest folder and then begins this

01:11:43   long process that is a combination of both shell scripts and hazel rules that takes all

01:11:50   of the videos, it gives them a unique date timestamp, so they all have like, forget what

01:11:57   the ISO number is, but it's all like 2020-12-7T19-23-01 to indicate the exact moment that this was

01:12:10   shot and it's renamed so that it's clear to me like which camera was the one that was doing the

01:12:16   shooting. Was this shot on the GoPro or was it shot on the phone? Once there's some basic

01:12:21   avoidance for namespace collision stuff, those files then move into a folder that is called

01:12:27   to_tag where I can add some tags of my own of like what was I doing and where was this shot.

01:12:34   And this is where it gets really crazy, because I have now hundreds of rules in Hazel that will

01:12:43   add tags based on other tags that have been added to the file. So for example, in places where I

01:12:50   know like I'm shooting a lot, I can just put the name of "Oh, this is the location" and then it

01:12:56   will automatically add "Oh yeah, that's in this city in this state," for example. So I can like

01:13:02   automatically add a bunch of other data and get everything all nice and tagged,

01:13:08   because when you import things into Final Cut, Final Cut has an option where it will use the

01:13:15   inbuilt file tags as keywords in Final Cut, which is great, because then you can like quickly find

01:13:21   whatever it is you're looking for. This system also, because I'm terrified about losing things,

01:13:28   is doing various levels of copying over the files at different states to rolling backups that will

01:13:36   keep them in the previous state for some amount of time. So it's like, as soon as they hit ingest,

01:13:42   before they get renamed, they're copied over to this folder, which will save them there for

01:13:47   six months, like just in case something went wrong. And then once I've tagged them, they're

01:13:53   They're copied over to a different system which will hold on to them in their tag state

01:13:57   for 18 months.

01:13:59   Once I mark them as correctly tagged, they will be copied over into a permanent archive

01:14:07   where then Hazel subsorts them into year, month, day folders.

01:14:12   And that is fantastic because like I can search this enormous archive for any of the keywords

01:14:20   that have ever been added or the keywords that have automatically been added.

01:14:23   The system is a little bit of a crazy Jenga tower, but it also really works.

01:14:30   And since that first video of the road trip, I have never lost a file and I've never been

01:14:36   able to not find something when I was looking for it.

01:14:39   So I'm pretty happy with the way this has worked out.

01:14:42   Man, that whole copying part is like really the workflow of a burned man.

01:14:47   I know, I think it's just it's the workflow that just makes sure nothing goes wrong.

01:14:54   That's what that is.

01:14:55   I guess so.

01:14:57   I know people will ask, just in case anyone is wondering,

01:15:01   there's a reason that I use iCloud Drive over Dropbox, which is that in my playing around with

01:15:07   it, iCloud Drive, while it is slow and weird sometimes, it never messes up the tagging.

01:15:16   So like, because I think that's part of Apple's inbuilt file system, that all files can have

01:15:21   tags, it always gets it right.

01:15:24   Like if I add a tag on a file, even if that file isn't completely downloaded, like it

01:15:30   always sticks, it always propagates to everywhere correctly.

01:15:34   Whereas Dropbox is very likely to mess up that tagging system if stuff is still in flux.

01:15:41   So that's why a lot of these things only get copied to a Dropbox rolling folder once the

01:15:47   tagging stage has been complete.

01:15:49   And then it's like, "Okay, now you can copy it over to Dropbox and Dropbox can just upload

01:15:54   it and it's no problem."

01:15:55   But anyway, that's why Files shows up for three minutes in my screen time.

01:16:00   That slow eventual syncing system,

01:16:04   I just couldn't live with that.

01:16:06   I know what you mean about iCloud Drive syncing

01:16:10   seems to kind of happen under a certain set of circumstances.

01:16:14   And I kind of understand why Apple do this.

01:16:16   It's like they're monitoring for like,

01:16:19   they don't want to burn all of your data

01:16:22   if you're not connected to Wi-Fi.

01:16:24   They don't want to take unnecessary battery from you.

01:16:27   So that you kind of have to be under certain circumstances

01:16:30   iCloud Drive. This is the same as like photos and all that kind of stuff syncing. I just

01:16:34   don't kind of, I just, it's just not, I don't work like that. But because I don't have workflows

01:16:37   like you do. When I need files to go places, I typically need them to go now. Right? Like

01:16:43   that's the point. They're going now because they're being used by somebody now or they're

01:16:47   for like, I need to know they're there now so I can archive this project. But with the

01:16:53   type of video that you're shooting, you are shooting it now with the intention of using

01:16:58   it in a month or two if ever, right?

01:17:01   B: Yeah, there's never a rush on my end and also just because I know this stuff is super

01:17:05   slow and weird, it always works out like for some of the stuff it's like "Oh I went out

01:17:09   on a bike ride and I had the GoPro just on my chest, you know, recording the whole time

01:17:14   and then I'm additionally shooting stuff on my phone and I brought another, I do have

01:17:17   a Sony camera that I use to try to get some nicer shots" and then I just know "Okay, well

01:17:22   When I get home, there's dozens and dozens of gigabytes of data across all of these things.

01:17:29   I just dump it all into the ingest folder on whatever device makes the most sense, and

01:17:36   I don't even attempt to try to tag it until tomorrow, right?

01:17:39   It's like, "Oh, I'll tag all of this stuff tomorrow afternoon.

01:17:42   I'll just wait for it to synchronize overnight."

01:17:45   And again, that's totally fine because, you know, I'm not trying to shoot like a daily

01:17:49   vlog here, it's like "oh my god I've got to get it done in 12 hours" then the system

01:17:53   would be completely unacceptable.

01:17:54   But yeah but similarly though because of the way you're doing it because it's all going

01:17:58   into a Mac and the scripts like Hazel is a scripting application you have other scripts

01:18:03   that are running locally on the Mac rather than anything happening in the cloud or whatever

01:18:08   you could just ingest it at the Mac right if you needed that footage to be tagged right

01:18:14   now for some reason. You just take the iCloud part of it out of the equation, which would

01:18:20   be easy enough to do. You just pop the memory card in the Mac or plug in a USB cable, bring

01:18:25   the footage in, and just do the tagging immediately and it will do its thing. The delay is just

01:18:31   inbuilt into the system, but you could bypass it quite easily if you wanted to.

01:18:35   Yeah, if for some reason it had to happen fast I would just do it all on the writing

01:18:39   computer but you almost always like one of the cameras I'm particularly interested in

01:18:44   seeing what was on it and so that one I'll just you know because it's the end of the

01:18:49   day I'll load up that stuff on this little laptop that I have by the couch because like

01:18:53   oh I just want to look at this footage right now and then that's the thing that will you

01:18:55   know synchronize and like I'll tag in and organize it tomorrow and delete the shots

01:19:00   that aren't needed or whatever but it is a really crazy system and I'm getting very close

01:19:04   to the point where I was going to try to email the developers of Hazel because it's a weird

01:19:08   system preferences app, there's limits to how much you can see on the screen at one

01:19:14   time, and I, in a couple of my categories, am pushing up real close against the limit

01:19:19   of how much can actually fit on the screen for these contingent rules about when to add

01:19:25   this tag or when not to add that tag.

01:19:27   It's gonna be like, "I don't know if you guys could fix this, but hi, I may be one of the

01:19:32   super-est of super-users of your app for a thing that you never intended.

01:19:37   Can you change your entire app just for me?"

01:19:40   Those emails are very successful always.

01:19:42   [laughs]

01:19:43   MATT: Always.

01:19:44   There was only a couple of things more that really jumped out to me here, which is in

01:19:47   your notifications section.

01:19:50   Shortcuts and Dew, just because they are so much higher than everything else.

01:19:55   Shortcuts has 120 notifications and Dew has 107 on your phone.

01:20:00   And then it goes down to messages at 58 and then we're down into like timers at 14.

01:20:04   Yeah, so, shortcuts, that number should be way higher. Like, in theory, that number should

01:20:10   be like four times as much as it currently is. But the reason that it isn't, again,

01:20:15   goes back to screen time being weird, which is, I have set up all of my timers so that

01:20:22   they create a notification on the phone when they run. So every time I switch from, you

01:20:28   know, writing to researching or reading or, you know, whatever.

01:20:32   When I run that timer change on my phone, I'm doing it through a shortcut, and then

01:20:38   the shortcut sets up a notification that says, you know, "Reading timer running," so that

01:20:43   I know it went through.

01:20:45   Like that shortcut won't appear if it didn't work and like there was a network dropout

01:20:49   or something.

01:20:50   So the reason shortcuts is so very high is because what you're actually seeing is a function

01:20:55   of a timer has run and has changed.

01:20:59   I'm also extremely aggressive about all sorts

01:21:03   of other shortcuts that I want to run.

01:21:04   And shortcuts, I mean, we haven't even talked about this,

01:21:08   like all of the notifications that Apple wants to send you.

01:21:11   One of the things that I find is really frustrating

01:21:13   is tons of shortcuts will still force notifications

01:21:18   even though I don't want them to run as notifications.

01:21:22   So like, here's the one that's the most annoying, precisely because of the synchronization system

01:21:28   that I have.

01:21:29   On my phone, I have a shortcut that runs which says, "Every time the phone connects to a

01:21:36   power source, turn off low power mode."

01:21:40   Because I also have a bunch of shortcuts saying, "I want to turn on low power mode way before

01:21:45   I think it's needed."

01:21:47   But I want low power mode to go off because I have learned, even if the phone is connected

01:21:51   to power, nothing will synchronize if low power mode is on.

01:21:56   But what that means is every time I put my phone down on the wireless charger, I get

01:22:00   a notification from Shortcut saying, "Hey, we ran that notification saying we're connected

01:22:04   to power."

01:22:05   It's like, "Oh, goddammit, Apple, please let me turn that one off.

01:22:09   I don't want that one."

01:22:10   But I think Apple is still very concerned about the safety of shortcuts.

01:22:14   So I've got a bunch of little ones like that that just send up notifications that I don't

01:22:21   want, plus every time a timer changes there's a notification.

01:22:27   But the reason that it is lower than it should be is because I can no longer use Siri to

01:22:33   voice activate changing timers, you know, like I mentioned last time.

01:22:39   Hugely frustrating after I built all of these shortcuts to works that I could just use my

01:22:44   voice 100% of the time.

01:22:46   And now I can't, so a huge number of timers I'm just changing on the computer in toggle,

01:22:54   which I just have open.

01:22:55   S: Why can't you?

01:22:56   What's happened?

01:22:57   B: This is the thing I said last time, where if I ask Siri to run a shortcut with my voice,

01:23:03   Siri says she cannot do that because screen time is on.

01:23:06   S & B & D & C.

01:23:07   Oh, it's a screen time thing!

01:23:08   B. It's just a bug.

01:23:09   It's just a bug that appeared months ago out of nowhere.

01:23:13   like probably a couple of weeks after I had just finished redoing my entire system to

01:23:18   be voice-based, uh, Ciri decided no. So I hate it. It's super frustrating and it's why

01:23:24   my timers are really weird. Now just when I'm working on my computer, I have a toggle

01:23:29   window just open where I use to switch the timers a lot instead of using the voice like

01:23:33   I would, but I just, I don't like having the two inconsistent systems there. The other

01:23:38   Another one there is Do is I guess my version of you snoozing stuff.

01:23:43   Like I think Do should always be high on my notification list because that feels like

01:23:49   it's it's the app doing its job.

01:23:52   Like the things that I put in Do are things that I know I almost never want to actually

01:23:58   complete at that moment and I need the app to harass me to do them.

01:24:02   A huge number of those are I have a reminder in due which just runs at nighttime and says

01:24:08   "Hey, you should start running your shutdown checklist now."

01:24:14   Like, "It's time to get ready for bed and do all the things that you need to do to get ready for bed."

01:24:18   And guess what?

01:24:19   I never really want to do that at the theoretical time that I'm supposed to go to sleep.

01:24:23   And so like that's one that's constantly harassing me about like,

01:24:26   "You know, past you thought now would be a good time to start getting ready for bed."

01:24:32   And it's like, "Yeah, but now me is watching TV that I'm interested in.

01:24:35   Like, snooze, snooze, snooze."

01:24:39   So that's why that one is just so ridiculously high.

01:24:42   I'll point out the Just Timers app is also on there.

01:24:45   Again, that one should be crazy high, but it isn't just because Just Timers I have on

01:24:52   my phone because it can work with shortcuts really well for if I start certain activities

01:25:00   that can automatically begin a countdown timer with a non-annoying reminder that the time

01:25:06   is up. But unfortunately again just because I can't use shortcuts the way I want to, just

01:25:12   timers end up being ridiculously underrepresented on this for what it theoretically should be.

01:25:17   Anyway, that's most of the stuff on my phone for what's happening there with notifications

01:25:22   and things.

01:25:23   Again, I feel like we're in totally different worlds.

01:25:25   Because you were like 10 hours on the phone and I'm under two if you exclude me.

01:25:29   No, it's not 10 hours on the phone.

01:25:31   It's 10 hours across all my devices.

01:25:33   Oh, right, right.

01:25:34   But also remember that 10 hour figure was just because of RSS.art19.com.

01:25:37   It was way less than that.

01:25:41   Right of course.

01:25:42   But then again, even though it was less than that, it's still more than that because not

01:25:45   everything's being counted in the first place.

01:25:48   - It's so frustrating.

01:25:48   I feel like this is definitely our most frustrating year

01:25:52   of trying to do screen time comparisons.

01:25:55   Like, it's not a good year for that, for sure.

01:25:58   - I just think what annoys me about this is

01:26:01   that there is such an interesting utility there.

01:26:03   Like, so even in having this conversation,

01:26:06   we see in ourselves and in each other

01:26:08   these interesting things about the way that we work.

01:26:12   And there's real data to get from it.

01:26:14   But the problem is the system is very buggy and is also just not fully realized in any

01:26:23   direction.

01:26:24   So I've been trying out an app for the Mac called Timing recently.

01:26:29   This is an application that does this stuff, but just for the Mac.

01:26:34   But it's so much more involved as to what it does.

01:26:37   And I've only been using it for a couple of days, so I don't really feel like I have a

01:26:40   full grasp over it yet.

01:26:42   But for example, it breaks down every time I use Safari, I can categorize every web page

01:26:50   as a different type of activity.

01:26:52   So if I'm in Google Docs, I'm doing show prep in Safari.

01:26:57   If I'm in YouTube, it's entertainment in Safari.

01:27:00   And also I choose the categorizations.

01:27:04   So I can, you know, you can have it like I think being like projects.

01:27:08   So if you were time tracking on your Mac for a project for a client, you could say, "I've

01:27:13   been doing it on this day and in this thing, it means it's for this project," that kind

01:27:17   of thing.

01:27:18   And what I also like is you can force the app to learn.

01:27:22   So every time I'm in the Craft app, it's for Cortex brand, and you can just lump it into

01:27:29   that little thing for me.

01:27:31   And it's really interesting, and you can add a lot of information to it, and it's also

01:27:36   got lots of interesting charts and stuff that it will build for you. But my problem with

01:27:41   an app like this is I want the full picture and this is only giving me the picture on

01:27:46   the Mac. There's no way for it to do this stuff on iOS, to have that level of system

01:27:53   control where it's watching what I'm doing in every application, which kind of just makes

01:27:57   me feel like I wished that Apple would create a screen time API to let third party developers

01:28:04   make more interesting apps out of this and also really accurately monitor what's going

01:28:10   on because like I see such massive differences between screen time on my MacBook Pro and

01:28:15   timing on my MacBook Pro because timing is picking up when I'm actually using applications

01:28:20   as opposed to when they're just the first application in my view, right?

01:28:26   >> Right.

01:28:27   >> So I'm going to keep running the timing app just to see what it's like over time,

01:28:33   I can already, it's already just served to frustrate me more that Apple isn't doing more

01:28:40   with this screen time thing, especially on iOS when they're the only people that are

01:28:45   allowed to do it in any way.

01:28:47   Yeah, that is the really frustrating thing is we're dependent on Apple to solve this

01:28:51   problem and they're clearly not interested in it.

01:28:55   And this year for both of us has turned up the largest number of bugs and missing data

01:29:00   in this semi-abandoned, maybe, system? That idea of an API is really interesting. Of course,

01:29:08   it would depend on the API correctly reporting data and not also being full of bugs of missing

01:29:15   phone calls and FaceTime chats and everything else, but I would be happy to see something

01:29:19   like that because yeah, I think it's not great the way the information is presented currently.

01:29:27   Even what you just said there is the categorization of stuff is really frustrating that they want

01:29:31   to show you at the top like, yeah, here's how much time you spent in information and

01:29:36   reading as we have decided what counts as reading and what doesn't count as reading.

01:29:41   Like it's very frustrating.

01:29:42   - Because like here's the thing about screen time just in general, right?

01:29:46   Why does screen time, you've given it this name which seems to suggest that applications

01:29:53   only need to be monitored if you are looking at them. Because like if I go to the battery

01:30:01   section of my iPhone I can see that I have in the last 10 days I've used Overcast for

01:30:10   17 hours. But if I look in screen time it would say maybe 20 minutes. So why is that?

01:30:22   Why should this, why screen time?

01:30:25   Like it's like as if applications can only be quote unquote harmful to me in any way

01:30:30   if I'm looking at them.

01:30:34   Right right right.

01:30:35   So like this, the phone knows what I'm doing.

01:30:39   They're just reporting it in such a specific way because my iPhone tells me about all the

01:30:44   background activity that these applications are doing in this battery section.

01:30:49   And I know sometimes it just means that the application is live or whatever.

01:30:53   So like, you know, like I'm not running Twitter for 44 minutes in the background.

01:30:58   Twitter's doing that itself, right?

01:30:59   Like it's just staying alive in the background.

01:31:03   But there are many applications that I am legitimately running in the background for

01:31:07   long periods of time while I'm doing other things on my phone.

01:31:11   So like I don't, you know, it's just, it's just frustrating to me really that the, the

01:31:17   devices have the ability to detect what's going on, but they only report them in such

01:31:22   a limited way.

01:31:23   Yeah, it's interesting, you bring up something else that didn't even really cross my mind

01:31:27   as again, a bug or intended use, which Overcast is right at the heart of.

01:31:33   So in theory, I have it set that I shouldn't use Overcast until the afternoon, like it's

01:31:39   one of my off-limit apps, like it's a distracting thing in the morning.

01:31:43   But often when it's like the weekend or whatever, I don't care because I'm not working, and

01:31:46   So I'll listen to podcasts in the morning while I'm like tidying up the house or whatever.

01:31:51   So to do that, I have to grant Overcast a special exemption.

01:31:56   And often I hit the wrong button, which says "Approve all day" and instead I hit "Approve

01:32:01   for 15 minutes."

01:32:04   So what happens then is I'm listening to the podcasts and then 15 minutes later, they just

01:32:09   stop because that was all of the allowed time that I had approved.

01:32:14   But that doesn't show up in screen time.

01:32:17   Like it only, it'll show like you used Overcast for two seconds.

01:32:21   And so it didn't even really occur to me until you mentioned it.

01:32:23   But it's like, yeah, Apple is counting it in these odd ways of like, you know exactly

01:32:29   how long I'm listening to Overcast, because you've cut me off after supposedly the time

01:32:35   limit.

01:32:36   But you're also not showing this as time used.

01:32:42   Which again, like, if the intended case of this is, "Oh, like, I'm a parent monitoring

01:32:46   what my kid is doing on the phone," like, I think I'd want to know how much time they're

01:32:52   listening to podcasts, not how much time they're looking at the screen of the podcast app,

01:32:58   right?

01:32:59   Like, it's very strange.

01:33:00   Yeah.

01:33:01   All I care about is my child's usage of how they choose what podcast to listen to.

01:33:05   After that period of time, I don't care.

01:33:08   Yes.

01:33:09   I'm completely uninterested in this information.

01:33:11   I just want to know how easily they can make this happen.

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01:34:57   Well, that was more time than I thought we would ever spend on screen crimes times.

01:35:05   Great! When you do the crime, you spend the time!

01:35:08   Yes!

01:35:10   I just earned my money for the episode. I did it.

01:35:15   Well done! A+ on that.

01:35:19   Oh, that's really good.

01:35:25   That is an excellent thing for your first recording back in your office studio.

01:35:32   How did it feel?

01:35:33   It must be the energy, right?

01:35:34   The studio energy gave me everything I needed for the perfect pun.

01:35:38   It feels – it does feel different.

01:35:41   I do realize that when I record here, I do feel different to when I record at home.

01:35:45   It's because the environment is very different.

01:35:48   Like it's – I'm very much aware of the space that's around me, which does feel

01:35:52   a little bit weird having recorded at home.

01:35:55   but it's expansive.

01:35:56   - Yeah, I have a lot of space here, right?

01:35:59   So there is a little bit more of a feel,

01:36:01   like I have like more of an awareness feeling

01:36:03   of the space that I'm in,

01:36:05   but I remember this the last time

01:36:07   and it ended up feeling less that way

01:36:09   as I got more used to it again.

01:36:12   So I expect that will be the case in the future.

01:36:14   I do feel more comfortable here as well with that space.

01:36:19   Like we record for a very long time, right?

01:36:22   Sometimes when me and you record,

01:36:24   I actually, like when I'm here at the studio,

01:36:27   I kind of will sit back a little bit.

01:36:30   So like not necessarily sit at the desk.

01:36:32   I will like, I, you know,

01:36:33   I have like a office chair that can recline.

01:36:35   And so like, sometimes I record this show reclined

01:36:38   with my leg, my feet up on the desk

01:36:40   and the microphone in front of me.

01:36:41   And that's the beautiful boom arm.

01:36:42   And we're just sitting here talking about apps.

01:36:44   Like, but I can't, I don't have the space

01:36:47   for any of that at home.

01:36:49   So it's like, it's kind of a nice way

01:36:51   to sit and chat to Grey.

01:36:52   Like I like that.

01:36:54   So that's, I'm reminded of these like different ways

01:36:57   that I feel when I record here,

01:36:59   that I can kind of cycle between actually feeling

01:37:03   a bit more relaxed to record,

01:37:05   but then there's sometimes where like the space around me

01:37:08   for some reason makes me feel more energized as well.

01:37:11   - I was gonna make a joke about you putting your feet up

01:37:13   on the desk while recording a podcast,

01:37:15   but you're saying that you literally do that sometimes?

01:37:16   - Literally do it, yeah, yeah, I can do that.

01:37:19   - That's great.

01:37:21   Look, we've been here for four and a half hours.

01:37:26   - Yes. - At this point.

01:37:27   You gotta mix it up a little bit, man.

01:37:29   - Not me.

01:37:30   I'm just, no, I'm just-- - Still has a statue.

01:37:32   - Sitting here, mouth right on top of the microphone,

01:37:35   just the way you like it. - That's fine.

01:37:37   - Unmoving the entire time.

01:37:39   - I am currently reclined.

01:37:40   I'm in reclined seat now.

01:37:42   You'd never know. - Okay.

01:37:43   - I've got my feet up on the desk.

01:37:45   The microphone's right in front of my mouth still.

01:37:47   See, this is the beauty,

01:37:48   this is why I'm always telling you to get a boom arm, Grey.

01:37:50   the flexibility that you have, you know?

01:37:52   - Right, okay.

01:37:53   I mean, I guess if I use my other desk,

01:37:57   I could put my feet up.

01:37:59   I don't know if the boom arm would actually reach that far.

01:38:03   Hold on, let me try this.

01:38:05   - I'm terrified of a, just like a crashing sound

01:38:07   and then all of the audio gear immediately cutting out.

01:38:11   - I don't know what you're, look,

01:38:13   I don't know what you're talking about.

01:38:14   - Feet up.

01:38:15   - I just need, I just need to, no, hold on,

01:38:17   I need to stretch this boom arm within an inch of its life.

01:38:20   Hold on.

01:38:21   [laughs]

01:38:22   Because it's not meant to be at that angle.

01:38:24   No.

01:38:25   Okay, let me move this key.

01:38:27   Okay, there's no problems here.

01:38:29   Ooh.

01:38:30   You know, one thing I do have to keep an eye out for is I got—I think I told you right,

01:38:34   I got these little coffee warmers, like these little plates that heat up to keep your coffee

01:38:38   warm, because I like the office colds.

01:38:40   Right, yeah, because everything I hate about Qi charging, right, is in these little coffee

01:38:44   plate warmer things.

01:38:45   It's like the same kind of idea in my mind.

01:38:47   Imagine Qi charging, except there's no charging, there's just the heat.

01:38:51   It's just everything that you hate.

01:38:53   Right?

01:38:54   That's what this is.

01:38:56   So I have it on my desk and I love it.

01:38:59   But the thing that I'm aware of, it's like, it's just a ticking time bomb for when do

01:39:04   I leave a wire draped over this thing?

01:39:07   Have you ever looked into those?

01:39:10   I'm sure you have.

01:39:11   That ember mug?

01:39:12   Yeah, but I don't want to have to have a special mug for it.

01:39:14   That's it.

01:39:15   That's an annoying deal.

01:39:16   coffee mug, like your mug, like Grey's, this is Grey's mug.

01:39:19   We have a variety of mugs at the house.

01:39:22   I don't want to be confined to having to use the one mug that can be used with

01:39:26   inductive charging.

01:39:27   I wouldn't consider it confined.

01:39:28   I have like three mugs that I choose from.

01:39:32   Yeah.

01:39:32   I have like one mug in the morning and then another mug in the afternoon, which

01:39:37   is one of two, but typically it's just one of them.

01:39:39   So really I only have, I have two mugs and a backup mug.

01:39:41   I don't want to be constrained by their system.

01:39:43   look, I'd much rather have this fire hazard on my desk and the freedom mic to use whatever mug that I want.

01:39:53   You got a fire extinguisher, so what does it matter?

01:39:56   Yeah, I can literally see the fire extinguisher right now. It's right over there in the corner.

01:40:01   But yeah, so I've gotten myself into feed up on the other desk position, but in doing so and

01:40:08   rearranging everything on my desk, I was like, "Ooh, I gotta get that keyboard wire off the heater

01:40:13   so that it doesn't melt and cause a fire and force me to leap out of this reclined position.

01:40:19   I'm gonna say right now though, I'm not loving this podcasting with your feet up thing. I don't

01:40:23   like this at all. - Right, but it doesn't feel like you're in a comfortable position at all,

01:40:28   right? Like I'm in a comfortable position here. It sounds like you've become like a contortionist

01:40:34   to get yourself in the situation that you're in. - It's mostly fine. - Like I've just got my feet

01:40:38   up on the desk that's in front of me. It's nice and comfortable. I'm not stretching my feet to

01:40:42   to the other side of the studio to try and recline here.

01:40:46   You know that Ember mug, they do a travel version now,

01:40:51   which I thought was kind of cool.

01:40:53   - Oh, what, through like USB-C?

01:40:55   Is that what it is, I guess?

01:40:57   - Well, no, like they have,

01:40:58   like it's got a heating element inside of a travel mug.

01:41:03   - What's the heating element connect to though?

01:41:05   - Well, I mean, you charge it,

01:41:06   they can charge it on their plate.

01:41:08   - Oh, okay, right, right.

01:41:09   - But the point being, like you could take the mug with you

01:41:11   and it's just gonna keep everything heated

01:41:13   to a certain level for all day.

01:41:15   So it was kind of cool.

01:41:16   It's cool technology.

01:41:17   I know people that have them.

01:41:18   I don't have one 'cause I don't drink coffee like that.

01:41:22   So like typically these things are for people

01:41:24   that drink black coffee and I don't drink my coffee black

01:41:27   or I don't drink drip coffee.

01:41:28   Like I drink coffee with milk, right?

01:41:30   Which I mean, I don't know about other people

01:41:32   but I don't really think you keep that hot

01:41:35   for long periods of time.

01:41:36   I don't really know why you'd do that.

01:41:38   - Yeah, I think if I was still drinking coffee

01:41:41   with cream in it, I would not be using this heating thing.

01:41:43   Yeah.

01:41:44   This is definitely a, "Do you drink black coffee?"

01:41:46   Now this is an option for you kind of accessory.

01:41:49   Or tea, I guess, would be the same,

01:41:51   because if you're not adding milk to your tea.

01:41:53   I think if you add milk to the drink,

01:41:55   you don't wanna keep it hot, that doesn't seem right.

01:41:59   'Cause you would be cooling the drink down

01:42:02   by adding the milk, and then heating it back up

01:42:05   past its point again.

01:42:07   I don't think that's a good idea.

01:42:08   Look, I think if you just kept milk warm for six hours on your desk, what could go wrong?

01:42:17   Drinking that.

01:42:18   Sounds tasty!

01:42:19   [laughter]

01:42:24   Yum!

01:42:25   But yeah, so anyway, I am not gonna be podcasting with you with my feet up on the desk anytime soon.

01:42:30   I'm back into a nice, proper sitting up position like, like podcasting was intended to be done.

01:42:36   [laughter]

01:42:37   Like, why did my dad taunt me?

01:42:39   Yeah!

01:42:40   (laughing)