87: The Theme System Journal


00:00:00   Okay, you ready? I'm ready. Here you go. Myke has handed me an object. Mm-hmm

00:00:05   An object that I have wanted to see in person for a long time. It's the theme system journal

00:00:11   It's the theme system journal

00:00:14   so

00:00:16   Yeah, what what gray has in his hands right now is currently available at cortexmerch.com

00:00:23   And it is the reason that we create a cortex brand so

00:00:29   I think this idea has been in the works for about a year.

00:00:33   Yeah, I'm gonna say the reason I'm gonna say about a year is because I remember you and I

00:00:39   first discussed the idea of we should we should make a theme system notebook and of course

00:00:45   if you're going to make a theme system notebook you know when you should sell it?

00:00:50   November. We wanted it for this January, January just comes so six months ago.

00:00:57   right six that's right it was six months ago because we'd had the idea sort of six months

00:01:02   ahead of time and then like this seems possible right how long could it possibly take to get as

00:01:08   people may have heard mention on the show like only two months it's just two months away two

00:01:14   months away right this is a little joke that me and gray have had between each other for for a

00:01:19   while because of the theme system journal it always has felt like it's only two months away

00:01:26   Basically one of the differences with this product

00:01:29   compared to the other stuff that we've been doing

00:01:32   is we've made it ourselves.

00:01:36   Like we've found companies to work with

00:01:38   and we've had it produced where the other,

00:01:41   the clothing items that we've had,

00:01:43   we've been working with our wonderful friends

00:01:45   at Cotton Bureau who are fulfilling this for us,

00:01:47   they're our fulfillment partner,

00:01:48   but they've also been our manufacturing partner.

00:01:51   Where this time we wanted to go out and do it on our own

00:01:54   and I've learned a little bit about trials and tribulations

00:01:58   of having something made.

00:02:00   It's very, very difficult.

00:02:02   And I wanna talk a little bit about that

00:02:04   'cause I think that there's some interesting stuff in there,

00:02:07   but I think we should actually talk a little bit

00:02:08   about what the theme system is.

00:02:10   This is a journaling system, a very light journaling system

00:02:15   that we have created and adapted based upon my journal,

00:02:20   the way that you journal,

00:02:23   and the things that we've been talking about

00:02:24   on this show for the last couple of years.

00:02:27   It's broken down into three distinct sections.

00:02:30   You have a yearly themes section.

00:02:32   We've got like four pages

00:02:33   where you can write down some themes.

00:02:35   These could be one theme or two themes.

00:02:37   We left it open.

00:02:39   And they could be like your themes for the year,

00:02:41   your themes for six months.

00:02:43   The book itself is big enough for 90 days of journaling.

00:02:48   So it can either take you a quarter

00:02:51   or it could take you longer if you didn't journal every day,

00:02:53   It's for somebody to journal every day for 90 days.

00:02:55   - It's for one season.

00:02:57   - So one season.

00:02:58   The journal pages, this is the big meat of it.

00:03:01   When we were thinking about how could we

00:03:04   make something like this,

00:03:06   what we looked at is the way that we both journal

00:03:09   and the similarities between those two things

00:03:13   is not the prompts,

00:03:15   it's the fact that there are distinct sections

00:03:18   that are important to us.

00:03:20   So instead of creating like a system which is based around my good, bad, think, look

00:03:27   forward system, it is just five boxes.

00:03:31   So there's four kind of like things where you'd write a bunch of stuff in and then one

00:03:35   little data box. Like for me, that's where I put the pens that I'm using.

00:03:38   And then I will use the other sections to write in a bunch of stuff.

00:03:42   So the idea being you pick the things that you want to be tracking and writing about

00:03:46   every day and then you write about them every day and then you can change them.

00:03:50   Like I actually, I was thinking a couple of days ago

00:03:53   that I think I'm gonna change the like,

00:03:55   what am I thinking section to what am I proud of?

00:03:58   'Cause I found that I wasn't really writing

00:04:01   like too much about what I'm thinking.

00:04:03   Like, oh, what's on your mind today?

00:04:05   It wasn't really what I wanted to be tracking,

00:04:07   especially because my journal so focused on work

00:04:09   a lot of the time that I was like,

00:04:11   oh, what am I proud of?

00:04:13   What did I achieve today?

00:04:14   I think might be a nicer thing for me to record.

00:04:17   So this is part of it, right?

00:04:18   we didn't want to create a system that is enforcing questions on you as a user.

00:04:25   Yeah so I mean like looking at the journal right now which is gorgeous and

00:04:29   feels great how would I describe this texture? Leather-et. Leather-et. It's like

00:04:34   a fake leather feeling. This embossing. It's a debossed. Yeah sorry. It's the Deboss Brain

00:04:39   Lego. Debossed. Well because embossed comes out, debossed goes in. I know I know. Which is a great sentence.

00:04:45   But yeah so like I'm looking at this beautiful black cover with this debossed

00:04:50   brain logo on the front of the journal and it is it is so nice but yeah we like

00:04:57   we sent back a bunch of revisions and ideas for how should the internal papers

00:05:05   be set up and so and so yeah like when we were thinking about a journaling

00:05:10   system there is this question about how much do you want to enforce

00:05:15   the structure and enforce an idea of how it should be used and I think what was

00:05:21   interesting is we were both like when we were looking at the designs we're trying

00:05:25   to think about what's the thing that both of us would get use out of even

00:05:28   though we're going to use it in different ways and so yeah like the the

00:05:33   bulk of the journal like you're talking about has on each of these pages like a

00:05:37   big section with the dot grid to write on and then like three smaller sections

00:05:43   with dot grids and I feel like this is this is like the lightest touch of

00:05:46   structure here here's a page and you have four and I would say four and a

00:05:53   half a very tiny one at the top like it's very it's section we call it like

00:05:56   the data box right these four sections that you can decide what you want to do

00:06:03   with them and and so like you would like to write down okay you're thinking of

00:06:07   doing like what you're proud of and if I'm journaling the thing which I always

00:06:11   described as annoyingly effective is like what are you grateful for questions

00:06:16   like that's the kind of thing where oh I could put that in the top box and then

00:06:20   use the middle box for something else so I like kind of looks really good in

00:06:24   person but like I'm very excited about this but yeah we spend a lot of time

00:06:28   trying to think about what is the like the minimum useful level of structure

00:06:33   when we don't know how people are gonna use this because I find myself turned

00:06:38   off by a lot of the pre-printed journaling systems that exist because a lot of the time

00:06:44   they're asking questions that I don't care about. So then I have to kind of fit myself

00:06:50   to this idea where instead we were looking way more to give kind of like a canvas to

00:06:56   people to track their thing. Because the thing that is the most important is the idea of

00:07:01   having a theme. And then the theme which goes first in the book should then be informing

00:07:06   how you're tracking yourself on a daily basis. And there is one other section which is daily

00:07:10   themes which is the things that I ask myself, I ask these questions I ask myself every day,

00:07:16   right? Where I will write down like how am I doing along these things? And you may remember

00:07:20   a while ago I changed from doing a numbered score to coloring in a box. That was because

00:07:26   of the pre-printed layout that we came up with here. Where we have a bunch of circles

00:07:33   And the circle has a very faint line printed through it.

00:07:36   So you could just write a number in it if you wanted to.

00:07:39   You could tick it off as a checkbox or you could color it in.

00:07:42   And I also thought when we were designing this, this could also just be a daily task

00:07:46   list.

00:07:47   Yeah.

00:07:48   Yeah.

00:07:49   So at the back of the journal you have like seven rows where there's a box where you could

00:07:54   like again it's open, you can write whatever you want and then adjacent to it is a bunch

00:07:59   of circles which can represent each of the individual days.

00:08:02   And yeah, when you came up with the idea of like the very light line down the middle of

00:08:06   the circle, I'm absolutely in love with that because it, again, it's like that really light

00:08:12   suggestion of structure.

00:08:14   You can totally ignore that if you want or it allows you to have two things that you

00:08:19   can record related to whatever is in on the box on the left.

00:08:22   And however you want to use it by putting what you want to track in the boxes on the

00:08:27   left is like, is up to you.

00:08:30   - So I guess the other thing that's worth mentioning

00:08:32   on this is this is very much a version one product.

00:08:37   So we have made a very small number of these

00:08:40   because we're kind of considering this version

00:08:43   of the notebook like a beta for the system.

00:08:46   Because there are no instructions in it at all.

00:08:49   There is nothing that explains what a theme is.

00:08:52   The only people that should buy this notebook

00:08:55   are people that listen to this show

00:08:57   and believe in having themes.

00:09:00   And then from there, we wanna get feedback

00:09:03   from the people that do buy it and do use it

00:09:06   and see what they like and what they don't like

00:09:08   because then that will be something

00:09:09   that we change for going forward.

00:09:11   Like everything is very much up in the air about this.

00:09:16   As of today, we are selling this notebook

00:09:19   in a couple of days.

00:09:20   I'm still not even sure of how much to charge for it.

00:09:22   - Yes.

00:09:24   like there is so this is very much like a we're taking a chance on this because it's something that we

00:09:30   Believe in and we think could be really useful

00:09:33   Because it's something like this way of journaling has been such a big difference for both of us

00:09:39   Yeah that we think that it is possible for other people to get good use out of it

00:09:44   But we just have decided to make a notebook for ourselves

00:09:47   So like I would say the papers fantastic. Mm-hmm because I wouldn't have it any other way

00:09:53   I was gonna say, if you want to make a really nice notebook, you work with Myke.

00:09:58   Because here's the thing, right? I cannot say here is a notebook that I have made and it's the paper's bad.

00:10:05   Because I am the pen guy. The design is slim-ish. It's 90 days worth.

00:10:12   I actually don't know off the top of my head how many pages are in it, but it's a lot of pages.

00:10:16   Something that's really important to me is it's a soft cover and it lays flat. You can lay that

00:10:21   book flat at any point because it has this really cool spine system in it which is like

00:10:26   these, the way it's all sewn together. We learned it's really hard to make things. We

00:10:33   were rejected by multiple companies to make this notebook for reasons I never really got,

00:10:43   just like no we don't want it. It's like but I want to give you money. But it was very

00:10:48   interesting to like to go through this process I mean let alone trying to

00:10:55   conceptualize the visual design of this I it was like I knew what I wanted but

00:11:00   had no idea where to start I'm like working on all that was crazy and so we

00:11:04   ended up for the actual manufacture of the thing because we were really

00:11:07   struggling we worked with our friends Tom and Dan who run a great company

00:11:11   called Studio Neat mm-hmm because they were creating a notebook which looks

00:11:16   very much like this one called the tote book. So the first edition of the theme

00:11:20   system journal is basically a bigger version of a notebook that they're

00:11:23   making called the tote book. Which is if you like the look of this but don't want

00:11:27   a journaling system you just want a notebook you should get tote books. I

00:11:30   used a product called pan notebook as well which is amazing which is like a

00:11:34   long notebook which is meant to sit under a keyboard between you and a

00:11:38   keyboard it's wonderful. But the tote book was great they sent me it and I was

00:11:41   like this is what I want.

00:11:45   So we've been working with them

00:11:47   and they've effectively we've had two layers

00:11:50   of middle people.

00:11:52   So it's been me and then Tom and Dan

00:11:54   they are contacting 'cause these were made in China

00:11:56   and then 'cause I found out products like this,

00:12:00   we were turned down by multiple American companies.

00:12:02   American companies would not take this.

00:12:05   I don't know why.

00:12:05   - I bet it's the fussiness of the manufacturing.

00:12:08   - It might be.

00:12:09   So we had to go for some very particular print and processes and assembly processes because

00:12:14   I wanted it done in a very specific way and I think that was where we started to find

00:12:19   problems.

00:12:20   They say no one would really tell me why, they just wouldn't do it.

00:12:24   Yeah well like the debossing I know we discussed is like a special process.

00:12:30   Especially because it doesn't come through on the other side.

00:12:34   Yeah so this is like on the cover of this, I keep touching this debossing.

00:12:38   I keep touching the debossing because it's amazing and the brain logo is beautiful.

00:12:42   But it is very deep and it is remarkable that it doesn't come through on the other side.

00:12:46   Yeah.

00:12:47   I know like that that ended up being so hard.

00:12:48   Tom and Dan have made many products.

00:12:50   They were flabbergasted by it.

00:12:52   It's like I don't understand why they're doing this.

00:12:54   But like so and then there's been other things like I don't know if I should tell this story

00:12:58   but I want to.

00:12:59   Okay.

00:13:00   About the prototype.

00:13:01   Yeah.

00:13:02   Okay.

00:13:03   Go.

00:13:04   No.

00:13:05   Go for it.

00:13:06   that

00:13:07   Everything was gonna be all good right the notebook before you manufacture a bunch that you're going to end up selling

00:13:14   yep, you should probably have a prototype exactly and

00:13:16   We had it made and it was sent directly to Tom and Dan the studio and because I said, oh can we have it sent to me?

00:13:25   It's like our

00:13:26   Prototypes are actually not a finished version. There's like a lot that's wrong with them

00:13:31   So like but that's kind of the point

00:13:33   All you're doing is kind of checking did they print it right and bind it right? It's like, okay, you know what you're looking for

00:13:39   Have it sent to you you look at

00:13:41   So they got it in and looked at it and it's like, okay. Everything's great. You just missed the page

00:13:45   So when you print them, you just got to make sure you get this page in like you've somehow misaligned the files

00:13:51   Even like just preparing and delivering the files. Mm-hmm

00:13:55   It's a nightmare and like I've learned all these things right about how many actual pages and like, where does it start?

00:14:01   When you're delivering a file you have to include the blank pages.

00:14:05   You must include the pages that are not going to be printed for the final copy of a book.

00:14:09   You can't say put two blank pages and then start. No, you must include the blank pages in the PDF.

00:14:14   And so they were talking to the manufacturers and they were like,

00:14:19   "Okay, we've done it now. You know, you've just got to get this one page in and we're all set.

00:14:25   Everything else is great." And they're like, "Okay, how important is it?"

00:14:30   And it's like well, kind of important because none of it makes sense anymore.

00:14:37   Right, everything was offset by one because of the mission page.

00:14:40   So especially the daily themes page at the back, you were answering the questions before you saw them.

00:14:46   Right.

00:14:47   Because it was all off by one. And it was like oh it's pretty important.

00:14:50   It's like ah okay, because they made them all.

00:14:52   Right, that's the thing when someone asks you the question, how much does this really matter?

00:14:58   you know and the answer is we've we've printed we've done did a lot of them

00:15:03   because we just thought it was going to be fine and we didn't expect you to come

00:15:06   back with a picky change and it was you know they were really nice

00:15:09   about it and it's the case of like all right so they had to recycle them and

00:15:13   then and this was like another thing because it's like

00:15:15   all right so they're being printed now we have we have the prototype it's not

00:15:19   going to be long now but then they use all the paper right and

00:15:22   there was no more paper right so we had to wait another five weeks for the paper

00:15:26   this is how it's been this like two more months two more months two more months

00:15:30   well like you know we're so close to so close and just never got there

00:15:33   oh then customs oh my god we were supposed to sell this

00:15:37   on our last episode that was the plan yeah and and

00:15:40   by the way before that episode aired it was like for sure

00:15:44   100 100 100 because they've they've been they've been mailed they've

00:15:48   they're literally on their way in the air we know that they're we have a

00:15:52   tracking number yep the tracking delivery date says

00:15:55   Monday, we don't record until Friday.

00:15:58   Cotton Bureau were gonna FedEx overnight me them and we were gonna be golden.

00:16:02   Right. No. No. Stuck in customs for like

00:16:06   12 days. I almost can't believe

00:16:10   that we have it here and that they're ready to be shipped.

00:16:14   It is like a dream realized and

00:16:17   with every physical product

00:16:21   I will never cease to be astounded by how long it takes

00:16:25   from conception to there's one in my hand right now that that Myke delivered in person.

00:16:32   Oh that one's not your one I have a rap one for you.

00:16:34   Okay don't worry.

00:16:36   But this one this one it says it says on the back that this one is version.

00:16:40   It's first edition.

00:16:41   Notebook number one.

00:16:42   Oh yeah well I just wrote that down.

00:16:44   Okay that's your handwriting.

00:16:46   That's my handwriting nobody else gets that.

00:16:48   It's it's like this tiny bit of insight into the thing that everybody knows which is like

00:16:53   Someone launches a Kickstarter for a product that they want to make and then just as a regular consumer you think why is it taking?

00:16:59   Three years to make this thing. They they already showed me something right in the Kickstarter

00:17:03   It's like this is this is why it's like oh we have a concept for a notebook

00:17:07   How hard could it possibly be we create a PDF like we you know?

00:17:11   We brainstorm about what it should look like on the inside

00:17:13   Surely we send a manufacturing company that PDF and then BAM notebooks exist

00:17:17   No, no, no, not not have you won it in a particular way and it's it's crazy. My favorite thing that I learned is

00:17:24   that the Chinese manufacturing facilities shut down for

00:17:29   Chinese New Year. Yes. Yes. They were supposed to be on press

00:17:35   Leading into Chinese New Year. Yeah, and we missed it by one day

00:17:41   And then and then that was again more multiple weeks. Yeah, that was my

00:17:47   favorite one I was like wait what do you mean the factory's closed for a

00:17:53   while and that we missed it by a single day and like it's Chinese New Year.

00:17:58   There were a lot of those conversations where at a certain point it just became a thing I knew like but it was kind of

00:18:04   funny because like Tom would explain it to me and then I would explain it to you

00:18:08   and it was like it's this weird chain of events. Yeah and I also imagine that the

00:18:12   person in China is like why do I have to explain Chinese New Year to you?

00:18:16   - Yeah, like every single time.

00:18:18   - Everybody's confused by it.

00:18:21   But it finally exists, it is gorgeous, it is high quality.

00:18:26   - We are at like, this is no joke,

00:18:29   very limited quantities, purposefully.

00:18:32   And then there's this other whole question of,

00:18:34   I don't know when we're gonna have more.

00:18:36   Because if we wanna make changes,

00:18:40   it might take as long as it took the first time.

00:18:43   Right, like this is very much like,

00:18:45   we really believe in this and our,

00:18:50   I mean our goal is like this will be a thing, right?

00:18:53   That like the theme system journal will be a product

00:18:55   that is available all the time.

00:18:57   Like that's the goal.

00:18:58   - Yes.

00:18:59   - Like, but we need to make sure that it works.

00:19:02   - Yeah, it's like, I keep thinking of this as,

00:19:08   as like product one of Cortex brand that it was,

00:19:11   it's like the first-- - This is why we did it.

00:19:12   Yeah, it's the first thing that really started the conversations about maybe we need to do a company to manufacture this sort of stuff.

00:19:20   We've ended up rolling out the subtlety and the cortex hoodie and all of these other things first, but that's why this is like product zero and it's here.

00:19:30   So I'm very happy about that, but we...

00:19:32   I'm very nervous.

00:19:33   Well, yeah. So here's the thing, here's the thing, listeners. Genuinely.

00:19:38   It is not a sales tactic of like, "Oh, there's limited numbers that you have to buy right

00:19:43   now."

00:19:44   What we're looking for is people who are really going to be like beta testers for this journal.

00:19:51   We're looking for people, you're going to buy this journal, you're going to use it,

00:19:55   and you're going to send us back feedback about what do you like, what don't you like,

00:20:01   what are you using it for, maybe you're doing something unexpected with it, maybe you're

00:20:05   using it in exactly the way that you would think from Cortex.

00:20:07   just want these in the hands of people who are going to be using them and sending feedback to us.

00:20:14   So that's why it is this beta product and I'm also a little nervous about it finally going out in the

00:20:22   real world but I have to say not that nervous because it is amazing to hold in my hands.

00:20:26   I'm very picky, there's a couple of things I will change. I've already seen some stuff that I want to

00:20:30   change but I will not say what they are. I have a guess I'll mention after the show.

00:20:35   I am incredibly happy with the overall production

00:20:39   of this product, in so much that I'm happy to sell it.

00:20:42   The reason we have them here now,

00:20:44   is we were not definitely gonna put these on sale.

00:20:46   I needed to see it to make my final decision

00:20:49   on whether we were selling them or not.

00:20:51   We may have well have just been like,

00:20:52   all right, that didn't work, right?

00:20:54   Let's start again.

00:20:55   - Yeah, I was very clear

00:20:57   when we started these conversations

00:20:59   that I wanted to imbue Myke

00:21:02   with the ultimate veto power over the notebook.

00:21:05   I cannot make a bad notebook.

00:21:09   - Right, no matter what happens,

00:21:11   if Myke is not happy with this product,

00:21:13   even if we'd spent a year on it,

00:21:15   like it still wouldn't have happened.

00:21:17   So I am also very happy to know

00:21:20   that you are happy to send these out to the world.

00:21:21   - I'm very happy.

00:21:22   So cortexmerch.com.

00:21:24   - Cortexmerch.com.

00:21:25   - There are pictures,

00:21:26   you'll be able to see all of the different sections.

00:21:30   Cotton Bureau have taken some wonderful photos for us.

00:21:32   So you'll be, and you'll be able to see

00:21:33   just how wonderful the debossing is, go and get it.

00:21:37   Like, there's really not a lot of them.

00:21:40   Like it's a small amount.

00:21:42   And if you do buy one, please let us know.

00:21:45   Business@cortexbrand.com is the email address.

00:21:48   Like when you get it, I wanna know how you're using them.

00:21:50   They are in stock now,

00:21:52   so they'll be shipping immediately, basically.

00:21:54   It's not like when we do a lot of our clothing stuff

00:21:57   where it has to be made.

00:21:58   You could have one within days of hearing this

00:22:01   if you buy one now.

00:22:02   So just in time for July?

00:22:05   - Yeah, it's just in time for the summer season.

00:22:08   - It's the time of, Q3's about to begin.

00:22:11   So we at least hit the start of a quarter.

00:22:13   - Okay, you and your Qs.

00:22:14   No one thinks in terms of Qs.

00:22:15   - Look, this is how it, look, the rest of the world

00:22:18   works in the quarters of the calendar, right?

00:22:21   July's about to begin, perfect time.

00:22:24   If maybe you wanna set a new half yearly theme,

00:22:28   go buy a theme system journal.

00:22:29   - Cortexmerch.com.

00:22:31   dot com.

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00:24:12   So there was a kind of, we had a little bit of an in-joke going into this episode about

00:24:16   the fact that we, and again we haven't even mentioned it, we're sitting around a table

00:24:20   right now, we're in San Jose California, it's WWDC week and we just spent a third of the

00:24:26   episode talking about something completely different which was a thing that we realised

00:24:30   last time because it was kind of funny where it was like well because we had this we had

00:24:34   like two plans right plan one was we were going to have all of the theme system journal

00:24:38   stuff done the week before great or I'll just give the journal to you now because you've

00:24:44   not seen it until right at this moment so but it was kind of funny or it's like well

00:24:49   that means we will start our annual WWDC episode not even referencing it.

00:24:56   Myke let's be honest what's more important the thing WWDC or the birth of a new

00:25:03   theme system that can improve people's lives.

00:25:05   Exactly. What's the software gonna do?

00:25:08   IOS. What's it done for anyone?

00:25:10   More like Shmaios.

00:25:13   So we watched the keynote together on Monday, there was a lot of stuff.

00:25:19   Mm-hmm.

00:25:20   Like a lot of stuff.

00:25:22   You got your dark mode, how do you feel?

00:25:25   You got what you wanted, that was what you wanted, you were very upset beforehand thinking

00:25:31   you weren't going to get it.

00:25:32   No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:25:33   You were very upset, I agree.

00:25:34   No, no, no, no, no.

00:25:35   I think you can roll back the tape and it's, was I upset?

00:25:38   No.

00:25:39   I would say- Are you sure?

00:25:40   No, listen to my words, I refused to get emotionally invested in Dark Mode, which is what you were

00:25:49   trying to do in that spoiler-tastic episode of the show previously.

00:25:57   You were trying to get my hopes up so that they could be dashed upon the shore of WWDC.

00:26:04   But they weren't.

00:26:05   You got it.

00:26:06   We did get Dark Mode.

00:26:07   We got Dark Mode.

00:26:08   I mean it's kind of what you would want it to be really. You can turn it on from Control Center,

00:26:12   you can set it on a timer. I think you can, I think it's possible to enable it with a shortcut.

00:26:17   And it just turns things from white to black. And a lot, it looks like a lot of Apple's UI,

00:26:23   not all of it, which is interesting, but a lot of it is going to be completely black. So the pixels

00:26:28   look off, which is great on an OLED phone. But they also have some apps where it's kind of just

00:26:33   which is like a dark gray, but I'm really excited about this.

00:26:37   I would expect, I probably run my phone in this all the time

00:26:40   'cause any app that has a dark mode, I enable the dark mode

00:26:45   because I just prefer that to piercing white light

00:26:48   all the time.

00:26:49   - Yeah, as always with anything,

00:26:52   the devil is always in the details.

00:26:54   What I'm curious to see is if they do the option

00:26:57   for light sensitivity for switching back and forth

00:27:00   between light mode and dark mode,

00:27:02   because some apps do that and there's a,

00:27:05   to promote my ever favorite OmniFocus,

00:27:08   has a fantastic feature which allows you

00:27:10   to set the threshold of what kind of brightness

00:27:12   you think it should switch between,

00:27:13   between dark and light. - I did not know it did that.

00:27:15   That's kind of fascinating.

00:27:16   - And the way I have it set is to be in dark mode

00:27:21   unless the brightness is set to 100%

00:27:24   to then switch to light mode.

00:27:26   And the way that that ends up working is it's in dark mode

00:27:28   unless I'm standing outside and then it's light mode.

00:27:32   So I don't know if iOS will do something like that, but I do know, and the thing I like about being at WWDC is to poke developers for some of the details.

00:27:39   Like, "Hey, hey, what are they telling you in those labs? You know, you gotta give me the good stuff here. Let me know what they're pushing."

00:27:45   And the thing I was happy to hear is that they are pushing that whatever apps have a dark mode should follow the system status.

00:27:54   that this is the way Apple wants it to be.

00:27:56   That this will be not just a toggle for the interface,

00:28:00   but apps should also follow suit.

00:28:02   That if you've hit dark mode, they will be dark mode as well.

00:28:05   Which I'm very happy about.

00:28:07   And yeah, obviously I think it's way overdue.

00:28:10   And I think it's totally an accessibility feature for a lot of people.

00:28:14   And I'm very happy it's here.

00:28:18   There were a couple of moments in the keynote,

00:28:20   and dark mode was one of them where it felt like,

00:28:22   Are they talking directly to Cortex?

00:28:25   Because it wasn't...

00:28:26   There was no moment more than that.

00:28:28   No, no, no. Before we even get there, the thing with Dark Mode is like,

00:28:33   "Oh, it wasn't just Dark Mode as a feature, it was... they had a whole introduction video."

00:28:39   To Dark Mode, yeah.

00:28:40   Yeah, there was an introduction video to Dark Mode and even though I did not want to get my hopes up,

00:28:47   hopes up. I felt extraordinarily confident that Dark Mode was coming with that absolutely

00:28:56   gorgeous opening animation that they did for WWDC. I have to say I watched that thing just

00:29:03   totally hypnotized so that like they were... It was like neon emoji. Yeah it was they were

00:29:10   pulling some perspective tricks that were really well done but yeah it's like neon emoji

00:29:14   against a dark background but the emoji were clearly being rendered in 3D as well so they

00:29:21   were just doing like this beautiful slow movements of one emoji to another. Honest to God it

00:29:26   was one of the most just beautiful animations I've seen in a long time and I kept wondering

00:29:31   I was like my god like it was last year or the year before they had a really beautiful

00:29:39   fingerprint animation that they did which was like a transition between a regular fingerprint

00:29:42   to a digital fingerprint and it really struck me as like god whoever did that

00:29:46   is an amazing animator I was like I wonder if they just gave that guy the

00:29:50   whole thing they're like please do this opening animation right like you know

00:29:53   you nailed it but so when I was watching that I was like I I'm picking up what

00:29:58   you're putting down WWDC right like I this is obviously there's dark mode

00:30:03   coming and now you're talking you're talking straight to me so I'm very happy

00:30:07   happy that it's finally here.

00:30:08   I want to get maps out of the way because like I have one word in my notes, it's just

00:30:14   maps in all caps like we have a theory that there's like somebody somewhere inside of

00:30:22   Apple listened to this show and decided to give maps the amount of time that got on stage

00:30:26   which was way more than I would have expected before.

00:30:31   Did you get what you were looking for with maps?

00:30:36   I mean yeah another reason I like coming here is being able to watch the show

00:30:42   like with other people and you and I really did have a total freak out when

00:30:46   when it became clear how much they were actually going to talk about maps that

00:30:52   it wasn't it wasn't just a little like oh we've improved and and that that

00:30:55   really was like are you talking straight to me WWDC?

00:30:59   They brought somebody out onto the stage and everything.

00:31:02   Yeah there was a demo on stage.

00:31:04   - Like it wasn't even just like,

00:31:06   oh we've done something with the Maps app.

00:31:08   It's like no, here's somebody to come

00:31:09   and show you all about it.

00:31:10   - There was a demo on stage.

00:31:12   They demoed several features of the new Maps app

00:31:16   and I have to say I was very impressed.

00:31:18   I was genuinely enthralled during the entire

00:31:22   Maps section. - I'm sure you were.

00:31:25   Somebody had to be.

00:31:26   - Oh god damn it, Myke, no, look.

00:31:28   Like aside from, it was everything I dreamed of.

00:31:34   It was great. They introduced collections.

00:31:38   So you can have like little collections of places on maps, which is one of,

00:31:41   aside from offline maps,

00:31:42   the only other feature of Google maps are really like use and love. Okay.

00:31:46   Now like I'm already losing Myke cause he's so bored. But listeners,

00:31:50   there's a thing that I want to point out that I feel like everybody missed and

00:31:55   I've heard people like poo pooing it.

00:31:58   People missed it. I just don't think people.

00:31:59   No, no Myke. Myke.

00:32:01   So they demoed what looked like Street View on the stage.

00:32:06   - Yeah, that was pretty cool.

00:32:07   - It was very cool.

00:32:08   - It's called Look Around.

00:32:09   - Yes, yeah, Look Around.

00:32:10   - Look Around the Street View.

00:32:12   - Yes, yes.

00:32:13   Street Spy.

00:32:17   You know, like yeah.

00:32:18   - Road Eyes.

00:32:19   - Yeah, Road Eyes.

00:32:21   (laughing)

00:32:22   - It's good, that's really good.

00:32:24   So when I tried to talk to people about maps here at WWDC

00:32:28   and they were remarkably uninterested,

00:32:30   I was getting back a wall of like,

00:32:33   oh wow, a Street View, welcome to 2007.

00:32:35   You must be so impressed.

00:32:36   But here's the thing, listen, listen listeners,

00:32:38   go back and watch that actual demo

00:32:41   because I am convinced that they,

00:32:44   like they showed more than what you think it was.

00:32:46   That was not what Google is doing

00:32:48   where they're taking pictures of the street

00:32:50   and morphing between them as you go down the street.

00:32:53   That was a fly through of a 3D render of the street

00:32:57   that had been textured with the photographs.

00:33:00   And that's hugely impressive.

00:33:02   - They call it a 3D experience.

00:33:04   - Okay, so they have listed it on the website.

00:33:06   - Yeah, they let you pan 360 degrees

00:33:08   to move down the streets.

00:33:09   - Okay, I feel very vindicated.

00:33:11   - Yeah, you got what you were looking for.

00:33:13   - Yeah, because it's like,

00:33:14   this is the thing we were discussing last time.

00:33:17   Like Apple's building a 3D map of the whole world.

00:33:20   - For AR.

00:33:21   - Yeah, for AR, which we all know is really

00:33:24   a prelude to the glasses, all this AR stuff.

00:33:27   What's the big deal about AR?

00:33:29   It's not about this. It's all about a future product.

00:33:31   It's not about holding up your phone.

00:33:32   They just want it to be ready for when they strap it to your face.

00:33:35   And the 3D map of the world is part of that.

00:33:37   And then also for any autonomy projects that might be in the works, right?

00:33:40   It's still useful for that.

00:33:41   So I felt like you've shown it, like you're showing this thing that you've made.

00:33:46   And I'm probably the only person in the world who checked this.

00:33:49   But immediately after the keynote was over,

00:33:51   do you know what the first thing I did was, Myke?

00:33:53   I opened up the Maps app and they released two new states in the map.

00:33:59   They released Arizona and New Mexico and it makes me laugh so hard because they're literally following the exact same release pattern that American Truck Simulator has so far done.

00:34:09   Which was California, Nevada, then Arizona and New Mexico.

00:34:15   Listen, if you're listening to this, if you're on the Maps team, you have to release Oregon next.

00:34:20   Because that's the next one that came out for American Truck Simulator.

00:34:23   And then if you do that, I'll take that as a sign. I know you're listening to me, Apple Maps team.

00:34:28   What is it, like a sign from inside?

00:34:30   Like it's like a sign of life?

00:34:31   Yeah, it's 100% a sign from inside.

00:34:33   But yeah, the Arizona and New Mexico maps have been updated to be their new mapping system.

00:34:37   I refuse to believe that's a coincidence.

00:34:39   I just, that's wild.

00:34:41   Yeah, but yeah, so anyway, new maps rolling out they said by the end of the year,

00:34:44   and selected countries by next year.

00:34:46   So I was very excited. I was very excited and enthralled through the whole section of the maps.

00:34:51   I look forward to annual updates at WWDC about maps every time now.

00:34:55   I want to continue running through the things that you cared about before we get to the stuff that's...

00:35:04   That's interesting? Is that what you mean to say, Myke?

00:35:07   Before we get to the stuff that's a little bit more typically discussed...

00:35:11   Was it Apple Watch faces next? Oh no, you have one more thing, right? What was the two things that you came with?

00:35:17   It was maps, and the Do Not Disturb type stuff.

00:35:23   is where I knew that the conference wasn't actually speaking directly to me

00:35:27   when we got basically nothing as I fully expected in terms of notifications

00:35:31   there's the silence unknown callers thing which is great but yes as I

00:35:37   expected I think Apple feels like they've nailed it with notifications

00:35:40   managers and I expect to be sad for the next five years in a row of WWDC stuff

00:35:45   but you know that's that was expected. Let me test your sadness. Okay. Apple

00:35:50   Watch faces. Now when we watched the presentation you were very upset. Yeah

00:35:58   people were laughing at me in the room. Yeah but I know since you've like will

00:36:03   have had a little bit of time to look at them. Yeah. So we've been playing around

00:36:08   with them on some of our friends watches who've installed the betas. What do you

00:36:13   what do you think about the changes to the Apple Watch stuff? Yeah I haven't had

00:36:17   a lot of time to play around with it but I have two thoughts. One of which is, at least

00:36:23   from what I've seen, I think the new California face is actually a pretty good looking watch

00:36:27   face. I don't think it's what I'm necessarily going to use but I think like oh this is one

00:36:32   that looks like a nice watch face.

00:36:34   I would also say that it surprised me how nice I think that looks.

00:36:39   And it looks much better in person than it did on the screen. I was quite struck by seeing

00:36:44   it in person to think like oh that looks much better than it does is like a

00:36:48   gigantic blow up behind Tim Cook's head it's like it's too big on the screen it

00:36:51   doesn't look right it makes me think of the fancy watches that you wear like

00:36:55   that California watch face well yeah I mean I don't have a California dial face

00:37:00   but I understand your point yeah like they are clearly trying to make watch

00:37:05   faces that look like real watch faces which I don't I don't really have a

00:37:10   a problem with that so long as they have utility to them and I will say they seem to really

00:37:16   show us on stage this time compared to previous years that they were debuting these new faces

00:37:23   but were also finding ways to try and make sure that you could get a lot of complications

00:37:27   on them even if they just looked like a color so like there were some of them that looked

00:37:31   like they were just attempt like really just trying to be pretty but you could also then

00:37:36   put complications on those watch faces as well and it was slightly adapt the look of

00:37:40   it. So it really did seem like something that they were trying to put some focus on. Like

00:37:47   we want to give you really good looking watch faces but not at the complete like lack of

00:37:54   giving you information as well. Like letting people kind of choose how much they want to

00:37:58   see.

00:37:59   from seeing them in person they've sort of standardized on a concept of we can have these

00:38:08   like gradient watch faces but you can also take that and shrink it down to a circle and

00:38:14   they've established that there's the four corners for complications.

00:38:16   And that is not what they did before right so like you've had like the picture face or

00:38:20   like the kaleidoscope face and so that's what you get right you can't amend it you can't

00:38:26   it more useful in any way but this time it feels like that they have put a

00:38:30   little bit more work into that and I think it's because in the previous

00:38:34   version of watchOS they actually found a shape for the complications didn't exist

00:38:39   before the corner ones yes yeah they're everywhere yeah they seem to have

00:38:43   decided that this is this is like the future of complications these corner

00:38:47   ones or you have a bunch of squares right or you have a bunch of squares you

00:38:51   know it's so see if you go with like a circular face of with some corner

00:38:55   complications around it that kind of stretch a little bit more of the screen

00:38:57   and make use of the different shape that the Apple watch has now right with the

00:39:01   newer version or you just roll as much as you can on the screen at one time and

00:39:06   like make it modular. Yeah so I can't say I'm really thrilled with the new watch

00:39:12   faces but the California one looks nice and the thing that probably will matter

00:39:17   to me the most is it seems like on a number of the watch faces they've

00:39:22   introduced a... it's not a monochrome mode but there is an option where you can

00:39:27   force there to be fewer colors. Which is one of my biggest issues

00:39:32   with the Infograph modular face that I use which is just like depending on what

00:39:36   complications you have it's so... it's clown vomit to go back to

00:39:41   the very dawn of the show right like there's too many colors. Some of them can

00:39:45   be monochrome some of them are monochrome with an accent color. Yeah but

00:39:48   they have some modes where you can turn it down a little bit.

00:39:52   Because like some of the modular faces, if it was all one color you wouldn't be able to read anything.

00:39:55   Because you wouldn't know where to go, right? Like you need some kind of like header or an indication of like this is a different thing to the thing above it.

00:40:01   So I think they've actually done a pretty interesting job there.

00:40:04   Again, I'll be curious to play with it in person because yeah, on the previous monochrome modes they did an astounding job of choosing the exact wrong thing to highlight with the colors in a way that I found infuriating.

00:40:14   But I can imagine using like a toned down version of my current watch face and being happier with the face on my watch

00:40:22   Every year I feel like something happens at WWDC and I'm like before I've used it

00:40:29   I make some kind of proclamation. Okay, and a lot of the time

00:40:33   Doesn't work

00:40:36   My proclamation this year is around the new reminders app. Okay, I

00:40:41   Think I think it might be enough for me

00:40:44   Really? Yeah. Have you seen it in person at all? Very little.

00:40:50   Okay. Based upon what Apple have shown and what I have seen, it does all I do with Todoist.

00:41:00   I have projects, so I have lists that I put things in. Apple just has different lists, right?

00:41:06   and I can set due dates and stuff and it will remind me and it has a view for

00:41:15   what I have today and what I have scheduled and I can set up some smart

00:41:22   lists like that's kind of it it has smart list capability it has smart list

00:41:25   capability yeah I think that these are well these are the ones that Apple

00:41:29   created right so you have flagged scheduled and today mm-hmm and I think I

00:41:34   I need to see how far in advance "Sheduled" will take me.

00:41:38   Like is it every scheduled event?

00:41:40   And if it is, maybe that's not so useful

00:41:41   'cause I do like a seven day view.

00:41:43   But to be honest, all I need to do is scroll seven days

00:41:45   and I'm done.

00:41:46   But some of the extra little bits that it can do

00:41:50   make it very interesting to me.

00:41:52   So like for example, if I say,

00:41:56   remind, if like, so say I set a reminder

00:42:00   and I attach you to it.

00:42:02   The next time I open up an iMessage to you,

00:42:04   get a notification about the reminder that I have set for you. That is such an amazing feature.

00:42:11   I did think that was just that was so cool as an idea. It's little bits like that which are very

00:42:19   interesting to me and like you can... I'm sorry not to interrupt you but I just realized like a dummy

00:42:25   how incredibly great that is specifically for you right it's like you your whole life is talking to

00:42:32   people. Yeah the only issue for me there was like a lot of that

00:42:35   conversation happens in slack. Mm-hmm but I still think iMessage would catch it a

00:42:39   bunch. But it would still be useful because then if I could still then go

00:42:42   over to slack right like if I needed to but like you it from looking at stuff

00:42:47   that you can even have like sub lists right we've been a list there's there's

00:42:52   like a lot of little things which seem really nice and it looks like it's

00:42:56   nicely made and I'm just wondering if something with more system integration

00:43:01   could be could be more useful to me. And it certainly is better looking than

00:43:06   Todoist. It certainly is better looking than Todoist especially in dark mode. So

00:43:10   I'm thinking about it like and I want to give it a go. You should totally give it a

00:43:14   go yeah. Because I think that I love, well no, I love notes so much if they have

00:43:21   done to remind us what they did to notes I think it's gonna work fine for me. Hmm.

00:43:27   And I would like to give it a go. Okay it's something that once once I get on

00:43:31   the beta train which I'm not going for beta one this time because everyone I

00:43:35   know that's used it has told me not to do that but last year it was it seemed

00:43:39   to be fine yeah I've seen a lot of extraordinarily buggy devices I mean I

00:43:43   may sacrifice a device to it but it won't be one that I use every day like I

00:43:48   have an older iPad at home like I think like the 10.5 inch or something like that

00:43:52   I might I might kind of just throw it on there and see what it's like but I think

00:43:56   reminders is is I think it might be in my future I really want to give it a go

00:44:02   because I'm finding myself being much happier with a simple system and it

00:44:12   would be I think really great to be able to use a system like this one where it

00:44:17   can also get hooks into the system that the other places can't like for example

00:44:21   using Siri to set reminders of Todoist is a nightmare because Siri fails to

00:44:27   understand the word Todoist for the most of the time but otherwise I could just

00:44:31   say oh hey assistant remind me at such-and-such to do this and it's just

00:44:37   it's just done then and I think I would actually quite like to do that but have

00:44:41   not been able to do it previously because I could not get it to work

00:44:45   reliably for me I mean and then when you start thinking about the fact that

00:44:49   reminders is a system app and then shortcuts exist and then all the things

00:44:53   that I might be able to do there but it's gonna have real good hooks into

00:44:57   shortcuts I didn't even think of that but yes yeah so I'm really I'm very keen

00:45:04   this is the thing that like I was wondering how I would feel about

00:45:08   reminders and I'm getting a bit drawn to it like as well just the design mm-hmm

00:45:13   very nice hmm it looks really nice you know I could see people playing around

00:45:18   it. I've seen the stuff that Apple's been posting. That is the thing that I'm really gonna give a go

00:45:24   at. It has a lot of nice location stuff as well, and the UI is pretty good. I've got my eye on that

00:45:31   one. I'll be curious to hear how that goes. Hello freelancers. Do you want to save 192 hours of your

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00:47:24   and all of Relay FM. Can we talk about iPadOS? I can't believe iPadOS exists as a thing.

00:47:32   what a way for Apple to put themselves on the hook in a way that I think it's so

00:47:38   interesting they had no need to name it as a thing that then people can

00:47:44   specifically say oh they didn't update iPad OS this year. I'll say I will say

00:47:49   nobody was asking for this there have been people asking for this for a while

00:47:52   but this was not a thing going into WWDC. Yeah if I was one of yeah if we were one

00:47:57   of these crazy podcasts that does drafts or predictions yeah Ricky pics yeah

00:48:02   and all this sort of nonsense.

00:48:04   You know, and we could pick a thousand things to predict for WWDC. I don't think

00:48:12   either of us would have put on a list of a thousand things, oh they'll officially

00:48:16   split iOS and have this iPad version. I feel totally blindsided by that.

00:48:22   It's one of those things though that when you start looking at everything

00:48:25   together, like iPadOS and Project Catalyst, which is what we were calling

00:48:31   marzipan before which is iPad apps on the Mac. I'm gonna have a very hard time

00:48:35   with that name. Catalyst. Yeah, I cannot remember. Catalyst for Change, Grey, I love it. I think it's a

00:48:41   great name. I think it is a good name but marzipan is just so in my head. I hated the name though.

00:48:48   I'm just happy they gave it a name. Yes. Because it was very, knowing Apple, it'd be like

00:48:53   oh it's just iPad apps on the Mac. So that's not a name. Right, yeah. You've

00:48:56   described it it's not a name but then just giving the iPad its own alright

00:49:05   this is okay so this is the complication of it in case you don't follow these

00:49:09   things as closely as we do it is not a separate operating system like iOS and

00:49:15   the Mac have a separate operating system this is a this is still iOS under the

00:49:19   hood but it there are additional features I mean again the iPad has had

00:49:24   additional features for a while the iPhone doesn't have but this is like

00:49:28   putting a like you are putting a stake in the ground fork in the road one of

00:49:33   those two things I would say they're putting themselves on the hook they are

00:49:37   doing that like that they're basically saying alright we've been doing this for

00:49:42   a while where we're making the iPad different we are now gonna say it has

00:49:45   its own operating system and we're gonna move forward it's like so tvOS so the

00:49:50   operating system runs on the TV that is also iOS yeah but they called it

00:49:54   something else but what Apple have now done is every WWDC they need to say what

00:49:59   they're doing on iPad OS in the same way they say what they're doing on TV OS

00:50:02   which sometimes isn't a lot but yeah but it's always like they have to mention it

00:50:06   there has to be something and you know if they have new screensavers for TV OS

00:50:10   I'm always very happy right and and this way I feel very confident that we can

00:50:16   expect going forward that there's going to be at least something each year.

00:50:22   There has to be annual change otherwise you shouldn't have done this nobody was

00:50:27   asking for it and if you would have kept it as it was I would have expected

00:50:31   changes in two years time now you better show me next June what else is coming to

00:50:36   the iPad. Yeah I mean my assumption which of course could be dashed on the rocks

00:50:40   of WWDC but my assumption is they did this because they have some internal roadmap of

00:50:48   here's what we expect the next four years to look like and they're extremely confident

00:50:53   about hitting it for the changes that are coming because otherwise this would be madness

00:50:57   to do it like this.

00:50:58   - And then, I mean, they started it well

00:51:01   because they have packed this full of stuff

00:51:06   that people wanted.

00:51:09   Like, massive changes to multitasking.

00:51:12   More than I would have expected.

00:51:15   You know, we were talking about like,

00:51:17   oh, what we really want is to have instances of apps

00:51:21   all over the place, right?

00:51:22   Which is 100% what they've done.

00:51:24   You can take any view of an application,

00:51:26   turn it into a new window.

00:51:28   You can have them paired with multiple different applications and you long press on an icon,

00:51:33   you can see where they all are and you can go to the one you want.

00:51:35   It is almost exactly what we are wanting.

00:51:38   Like it's perfect.

00:51:39   Right?

00:51:40   I can't wait.

00:51:42   Then you look at what they did to Safari.

00:51:45   They've basically made a desktop version of Safari.

00:51:48   And the difference here is it's not just saying show me desktop mode because then stuff doesn't

00:51:55   work.

00:51:56   Right?

00:51:57   into websites where you have to with a mouse you would hover over it and it

00:52:01   would pull down. Apple's doing this like crazy analysis of web pages to

00:52:05   understand what hover states are. So when you tap on something it will bring down

00:52:10   the hover thing. It won't navigate. Like they're doing like a bunch of wild

00:52:14   stuffs like for example Google Docs. Oh yes but I have to say this might

00:52:20   have been this might have been like a big moment of surprised face on Myke.

00:52:26   I looked over at you and you looked shocked when they called out

00:52:30   They called out Google Docs

00:52:31   Yeah because I mean you know for anyone who listens to Myke shows you know there's like

00:52:35   this annual how long is it going to be until Google Docs is updated problem

00:52:40   And now Google Docs will work in Safari on iOS

00:52:45   So this is you know what I just realized I use Chrome on all my iOS devices it's probably

00:52:49   gonna have to change now

00:52:50   Yeah I think that's that's gonna

00:52:51   Or I just treat Safari like it's the Google Docs app

00:52:56   I'll work it out.

00:52:56   But they're doing a bunch of stuff to make sure

00:52:59   that these full desktop web apps work on the iPad now,

00:53:04   which is huge, right?

00:53:09   The amount of work that they've had to put into this,

00:53:12   it's gonna make a massive, massive difference

00:53:15   to being able to get work done on the iPad,

00:53:19   as well as as a downloads manager,

00:53:21   so you can download files properly now.

00:53:24   Right, like I know that this stuff, when we say it,

00:53:27   it really does enforce the idea of like,

00:53:30   you should use real compute type.

00:53:31   But like, there are many advantages to using iOS.

00:53:36   We've spoken about them for years.

00:53:38   It's really great to see Apple just trying

00:53:41   to close the gaps a little bit more.

00:53:43   - Yeah, and I was really happy to see a bunch

00:53:45   of those changes with Safari because it,

00:53:48   it again addresses the very thing that I was saying

00:53:50   I wish I could do last episode of being able

00:53:53   to have multiple windows full of tabs. Multiple windows, multiple tabs, multiple projects.

00:53:59   So you can have 50 instances if you wanted of notes and safari. You could just have infinite

00:54:06   amounts of them. Yeah and the thing that I really like about this is it's going to solve

00:54:12   a frustration that I currently have which is when I'm investigating various projects.

00:54:17   I sort of always have like tabs open on random machines and now this allows me to further

00:54:23   double down on the concept that my iPad is this research assistant and so you

00:54:29   know long time listeners will know I love defining like places for an

00:54:33   activity and now this just this 100% makes like the iPad is the research

00:54:39   assistant and so like if I'm looking stuff up on the web for a project I

00:54:43   should have my iPad in my hands and this way like that always just has the

00:54:48   current state of open tabs for all of the projects that I'm working on so like

00:54:53   I'm that was a when I got my hands on the first device running a beta that was

00:54:57   like the very first thing I wanted it was like show me how I can make multiple

00:55:01   Safari windows it's I'm really excited about the Safari stuff like in a way

00:55:08   that I wouldn't have expected that I would be mmm but there are there are so

00:55:14   many times when I'm trying to do a thing and now it's being able to have it fully

00:55:22   understand or fully fight around the parts of the web that refuse to change

00:55:27   it's it's basically deciding like is how but we're not giving in on this yeah if

00:55:32   you're not gonna change around us who we're gonna force to change on you I

00:55:35   like that yeah it's interesting to hear and I know yeah that always tends to be

00:55:40   a like a weird constraint on iOS sometimes like oh right my bank's web

00:55:44   page just doesn't work and I have to do this on the Mac and in theory now it

00:55:49   will right like that's that's that that's what they're working for

00:55:53   mouse and trackpad support is friggin wild so this was not announced in the

00:55:59   keynote it is an accessibility feature so you have to turn on any accessibility

00:56:03   settings what it does so you may have come across at some point in your life

00:56:08   somebody you had an iPhone of a broken home button and there is this there is a

00:56:12   system called assistive touch which puts a home button like a digital home

00:56:17   button on the screen of the phone and you can set it up so you can tap it to

00:56:21   use it as a home button and you can set up to have a bunch of actions like

00:56:24   shortcuts assigned to it like lock the screen take a screenshot and this is for

00:56:27   people who have limited mobility. What Apple have done is take this digital

00:56:32   finger basically this big circle and you can plug in a USB mouse or connect one

00:56:38   of a Bluetooth or a trackpad and effectively have a cursor on iOS. Now it

00:56:45   It is a big gray circle, right?

00:56:49   It is not perfect, but it really is a feature

00:56:52   that is intended to not be the default way

00:56:56   that people interact with these devices,

00:56:58   but it is for people who require it

00:57:00   for certain mobility reasons.

00:57:03   I am one of those people.

00:57:06   You know, we have spoken at length

00:57:08   about repetitive strain injury on this show,

00:57:11   and I have been, recently I've been,

00:57:14   for a while I've been using my iPad in a stand.

00:57:18   Stand I use is called the Clearlook stand.

00:57:20   I will include a link in the show notes to the Amazon page

00:57:23   'cause people always ask me

00:57:24   and this is one that I feel happiest recommending.

00:57:27   It is the best stand that I have used so far

00:57:29   for an iOS device 'cause it can at a desk be at my eye height

00:57:34   and I've not used a stand like that before

00:57:35   and it remains stable when I tap it

00:57:37   but now I don't need to worry about that

00:57:40   because I will be able to connect a mouse

00:57:41   'cause what I found I was still doing

00:57:43   I have to lean forward sometimes to tap on stuff, but now I can sit back comfortably

00:57:47   when I'm at my desk, I connect a Bluetooth mouse, I use my keyboard, then I can use my

00:57:53   preferred device.

00:57:54   I know I'm using it like an iMac at this point.

00:57:56   I know this, right?

00:57:57   The iMac is next to me still on my desk.

00:58:00   But I love iOS.

00:58:02   It's the platform that I enjoy and now I will be able to use it in a way that is most comfortable

00:58:08   to me in certain circumstances.

00:58:10   I bet this is going to be a really strange experience because like it was last year they

00:58:16   introduced or it was the new iPad the ability to run it on an external monitor over USB-C

00:58:23   and I don't use it but I did out of curiosity I just set it up one day to be like oh how

00:58:29   does this work?

00:58:30   I had forgotten about that.

00:58:32   Oh had you?

00:58:34   Yes. I could plug it into a monitor.

00:58:36   Yeah you could plug it into a monitor because you don't need the iPad to actually physically

00:58:40   touch the screen anymore. Well damn everything's changed. Now I'm thinking

00:58:46   very differently about what computer I'm gonna buy next. Mmm interesting. Mmm you've

00:58:52   got something to think about there. Something to think about because now in

00:58:56   theory I only need one desk set up. I think about that. I need to think about

00:59:01   that. Yeah like but that is whenever there's new stuff you always need to

00:59:05   rethink what the situation is gonna be. Yeah it's like oh there's a new feature

00:59:09   and iOS I need to rethink the entirety of Megaroffice. It's time to move. Yeah. But yeah I was just gonna say like I tried

00:59:18   that once on the screen just to see it just to play around with it. Yeah. And I

00:59:22   had just like such a surreal experience to see iPad on like iPad I was gonna say

00:59:28   iPad OS but then iOS on this giant screen and I can imagine it would be a

00:59:34   very surreal experience to do that and then also be able to control it with a

00:59:39   keyboard and mouse because we have you know we have ten plus years of using

00:59:42   iOS just with our fingers and you know if we're lucky as stylists and so yeah I

00:59:48   just think that'd be an interesting experience to try it like that for the

00:59:51   first time. Yeah I'm really I'm this is something I'm so excited about because

00:59:55   the keynote came and went and it wasn't announced and I was a little bit bummed

00:59:58   about it like because basically we'd heard about this for a while that it was

01:00:03   something that Apple was testing and it was something that was really going to

01:00:08   be a quality of life improvement for me yeah and so I was genuinely so pleased

01:00:13   to see that it's something that exists and I will be able to get some genuine

01:00:19   use out of it like I can't wait also I use here's the bridge keyboard now as

01:00:26   well like intrigue like will they make a cousin version oh I could just take

01:00:31   version because in theory you could do it now I mean the problem the problem is

01:00:36   is at least for now, I think it's still gonna be

01:00:37   a niche feature.

01:00:39   My feeling would be that like eventually they may try

01:00:41   and make this a little bit more widely supported

01:00:44   in the system unless they have an accessibility thing.

01:00:46   Like maybe they just wanna see like will people use this?

01:00:48   We know this is a good accessibility feature,

01:00:50   but will people use this?

01:00:51   Because I think they're not the right way.

01:00:54   I think it would have been a bad idea

01:00:56   to be here's iPad OS, now you can use a mouse.

01:01:00   - Yeah, I agree.

01:01:01   From a messaging perspective,

01:01:03   that would have been bad.

01:01:04   But it is a feature which has genuine use.

01:01:07   So adding it to the system is like, that's great.

01:01:10   But maybe then just kind of tracking how people use it

01:01:13   going forward is quite useful.

01:01:15   The home screen has been changed quite significantly.

01:01:18   You can now have way more apps on one screen

01:01:20   and you can have widgets pinned to it.

01:01:22   It's not massive change,

01:01:24   but they have effectively the bare minimum

01:01:27   that I would have wanted to see.

01:01:29   - You've completely ignored the most massive change

01:01:32   as far as I'm concerned in iPad OS,

01:01:34   which is now when you take your iPad

01:01:37   and you rotate it 90 degrees,

01:01:40   the icons stay in the same place.

01:01:42   - Yes.

01:01:43   - There's none of this line shuffle anymore.

01:01:45   - Which is fantastic.

01:01:46   - I think it's six across at the top now

01:01:49   and then when you rotate it,

01:01:50   it stays as six across at the top.

01:01:52   - The same as when you have them full screen

01:01:54   and bring the widgets in.

01:01:55   - Yeah, it just compresses them.

01:01:57   Yes, which is so good.

01:02:00   And finally, someone understanding like muscle memory

01:02:02   is really important for the,

01:02:05   you can't move icons around on people, that's madness.

01:02:08   - I love the idea of having widgets just right there.

01:02:12   I think that that's a great look, great thing to do.

01:02:14   Keyboard shortcuts are being significantly enhanced

01:02:17   and like I think you can like trigger shortcuts

01:02:21   from a keyboard shortcut, which is kind of wild.

01:02:23   There's like a bunch of amazing stuff happening

01:02:25   with keyboard shortcuts.

01:02:27   Apple Pencil latency, I know is the thing

01:02:29   that you were really kind of like blown away by?

01:02:32   - Yeah, so they mentioned in the keynote

01:02:36   that they had the latency, they dropped it from,

01:02:38   it was like 20 milliseconds to nine milliseconds.

01:02:41   - Yeah.

01:02:42   - Which I genuinely was completely blown away by

01:02:44   because if I can remember, I think somewhere around like five

01:02:49   gets to be the limit of human perception that like--

01:02:53   - Oh, really?

01:02:54   - Like your brain simply can't perceive the distance anymore.

01:02:56   - So they are like nearly there.

01:02:58   - Yeah.

01:02:58   Wow, but like part of the reason I was blown away by it is that this is

01:03:03   It just it felt like such an appley thing and I love it when they do this kind of thing where

01:03:09   The latency on the Apple pencil already is as good as I could ever expect the least

01:03:15   Everybody else's yeah, it's it's so much better. Oh

01:03:18   only under the most

01:03:21   Extreme of motions. Do I even notice that there's some kind of latency?

01:03:26   It was so impressive already and it just,

01:03:30   it didn't feel like an area where it was desperately

01:03:33   calling out for, oh you guys need to fix it.

01:03:35   And they're like, oh hey, we made it twice as fast,

01:03:39   this thing that was already amazing,

01:03:40   and we're pushing up against the limits

01:03:41   of human perception. - We improved it

01:03:42   by three milliseconds.

01:03:45   Like, oh great, but it's like, no, we just cut it in half.

01:03:47   Less than half, we just for funsies, I guess,

01:03:50   really just to prove that we could do it, I suppose.

01:03:52   - Yeah, and I just think, I think that that,

01:03:56   It's great because it's those little things that you don't notice that make it feel more

01:04:02   like you're just directly interacting with the device.

01:04:06   That is like I'm moving and the line underneath the pencil is just like rock solid and it's

01:04:12   there and I can't even if I'm going very fast get that line to move away from the pencil.

01:04:18   So I was just impressed because I thought like well done Apple, I love seeing you do

01:04:22   this kind of stuff where it's already amazing and you devote a bunch of

01:04:25   engineering resources to a thing that nobody would have complained about but

01:04:29   that makes the experience much better so that's why I was so impressed it's like

01:04:34   I can't believe you guys did that as madness.

01:04:36   Oh the text selection stuff has changed?

01:04:39   I'm really intrigued to see how this ends up looking like all the gestures

01:04:43   like the three finger pinching to copy and paste and yeah they've they've got

01:04:48   rid of the magnifying glass you just you just drag the cursor around this is one

01:04:52   of those things where it's like alright I want to see what this actually ends up being

01:04:57   like.

01:04:58   Yeah and I also have this feeling like we don't have the full picture of this yet because

01:05:02   there's at least a time of recording it's a little bit unclear whether or not 3D touch

01:05:07   has been removed from iOS entirely like it's a little bit unclear like what's happening

01:05:12   exactly with this.

01:05:13   3D touch still works.

01:05:15   Yes, but there's a question of...

01:05:17   It looks like it is a possibility that the actual method in which it works right now

01:05:24   where there is a physical interaction going on may go away.

01:05:29   And then that could then expand it out to other devices if they don't actually 3D touch

01:05:34   to perform the action anymore.

01:05:36   So it's a bit unclear.

01:05:37   Yeah, it's a bit unclear what's happening, but like 3D touch has a lot to do with text

01:05:41   selection particularly on the iPhone as well.

01:05:43   I just kind of wonder you know sometimes at WWDC you feel like you get half of

01:05:49   the story. Because you get a preview of September of them not trying to show you

01:05:52   anything. Yeah and there's and there's one there's one thing that I think

01:05:55   really backs up a totally like hashtag Myke was right thing from the previous

01:05:59   episode which is one you got the App Store for the App Watch. The App

01:06:04   Store for the Apple Watch and then I have I've heard from a couple developers

01:06:09   now that again like inside the halls of WWDC they're really focused on like hey guys make

01:06:15   sure your apps are independent on the watch right so I think really backs up your concept

01:06:21   that they might be doing an independent or semi-independent watch very soon.

01:06:26   It feels like this is way too heavy for us to get into but they created this new UI system

01:06:33   so developers can make these things called Swift UI and it's like a carrot and stick

01:06:37   thing they want people to move to the system so they're offering them the

01:06:40   ability to make watch apps better actually very clever the way that

01:06:44   they're doing this but that is like they know it's gonna take everyone a little

01:06:49   while I think because they're gonna have to a lot of developers will need to be

01:06:52   also learning a new operate like a new language to write their apps in so I

01:06:58   think it's like hey just might you just start doing this and then I may it might

01:07:01   even be right like that in September they debut an Apple Watch which is

01:07:07   intended to be even more. Yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised now based on

01:07:11   what I've heard from developers I mean yeah it is way beyond the scope of this

01:07:15   show but I have to say my like of all the things actually the the announcement

01:07:20   that I am kind of the most interested in is some of the Swift UI stuff in the way

01:07:23   that it feels like oh this is this is finally what they've been working

01:07:26   towards for a number of years with Swift. It's super interesting though because so

01:07:30   we spoke about, right, catalyst, right, the idea of bringing iPad apps to the Mac.

01:07:34   And I'm really excited about this because there are, like I said last time,

01:07:39   apps that I use all the time on my iPad that don't exist on my Mac and I now

01:07:45   feel even more convinced because Apple basically have said it, make good iPad

01:07:49   apps so you have good Mac apps. Yeah. They are being very clear about this now.

01:07:54   That's very clearly what's happening. They've said it. So like that's it's gonna make the iPad

01:07:58   ecosystem far richer than before it's probably why they created iPad OS right

01:08:03   there they've deemed the operating system iPad OS now because they want

01:08:06   everyone to make really good iPad apps a lot of the changes that they've made

01:08:11   clearly to enforce that until like add some consistency between the two

01:08:15   platforms but then they come up with this thing called Swift UI which is like

01:08:18   the kind of the idea of it ultimately is the app that you make can be represented

01:08:24   on all of the platforms. So they have these multiple projects running. So currently right

01:08:29   now you make an iPad app, you can put it on the Mac, maybe next year you can do with the

01:08:31   iPhone, put it on the Mac. But in a couple of years time, it's probably gonna be like,

01:08:35   now forget all of that. Make a Swift UI app and just make this one app and it runs on

01:08:41   everything. Because it's this whole different way of interpreting the way the code's written.

01:08:46   It's just interesting to see them doing multiple things that could ultimately have a very similar

01:08:51   outcome.

01:08:52   it's one of those times where you can very clearly see what they're working towards.

01:08:55   And I like that they're doing it this way, like they started last year by showing off

01:08:59   what would become catalyst as a way to get people thinking. I think Apple is at the moment

01:09:05   very much positioning themselves for their future

01:09:09   publicly in a way that they haven't in quite a while and that makes me excited

01:09:15   especially when the iPad is so heavily featured in that.

01:09:19   Yeah, and I think that made me smile is when they talk about this new Swift UI stuff like this new way to write apps

01:09:25   They even mentioned like oh it works across all our platforms even the Apple TV, right? And again, it makes me just think of like

01:09:31   Like this conservation project and like here is what we really want

01:09:36   You're gonna write apps in just this way and then it's gonna work across all of our devices

01:09:42   And I also think it must be on the roadmap as well like anything that's coming down the future, right?

01:09:47   Like they're just like this is the way it's gonna be and like I think that's great because it makes all of the various app ecosystems stronger.

01:09:57   And it also just from a company perspective gives them an incredible amount of power for any future projects that they want to bring out.

01:10:05   If like they can keep it still working with Swift UI which I'm sure is exactly their plan.

01:10:10   It's like bam they can launch a new product and basically have a whole bunch of apps that can run on it already.

01:10:16   Yep, and they've done it, they've debuted it in the perfect way, right?

01:10:19   Because we have a bunch of friends who make apps and they hate the way that the watchkit stuff works.

01:10:24   Like the way you currently make watch apps.

01:10:26   So Apple have made it that if you want to make a really good watch app, a native watch app, just use SwiftUI.

01:10:32   Yeah.

01:10:32   It's like, all right, well, I'm gonna have to learn it now then.

01:10:34   Yeah.

01:10:34   Every time I go to WWDC, I always feel like there's something that I always like to ask the developers about because I, you know, I don't have the expertise to evaluate it myself.

01:10:43   Swift UI has been that thing for me at this conference every time I'm talking to anybody who touches code

01:10:48   I'm like, oh if you looked at Swift UI, what do you think and everybody really loves it and thinks it's a great idea

01:10:53   So it feels like this is this is totally the future of how apps are gonna be made

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01:12:36   Let's talk about the Mac Pro.

01:12:38   Oh yeah?

01:12:39   Yeah let's talk about the Mac Pro.

01:12:41   Why do you want to talk about the Mac Pro?

01:12:42   I just want to get your opinion on the Mac Pro.

01:12:45   This is a horrifically powerful machine.

01:12:49   Well if you spec it up it's going to be horrifically powerful.

01:12:52   Okay the machine that has the ability to be horrifically powerful.

01:12:56   Do you think it is a good looking computer?

01:13:02   Okay, right, okay. So this is the first thing. Mac Pro comes out, it's up on the stage, and

01:13:12   you know, we were watching, I think we were both like, kind of cocking our heads to the

01:13:19   sides.

01:13:20   That's a thing that you've got there?

01:13:22   Yeah, and I think it is fair to say it's a bit of an ugly duckling.

01:13:26   I appreciate it.

01:13:29   I do not think it looks good.

01:13:32   I have heard from people that have actually gone in

01:13:34   and developers could go in and see it.

01:13:36   - Yeah.

01:13:37   - And people say that like in person, it looks pretty cool.

01:13:41   - I can believe that it looks better in person

01:13:43   than it does in the same way like the watch faces

01:13:45   look better in person than they do with demo on stage.

01:13:47   - But like let's just get this on the record.

01:13:49   The Mac Pro, the cylindrical Mac Pro,

01:13:52   that thing looked awesome.

01:13:54   - Right.

01:13:54   - But it was terrible.

01:13:55   was a beautiful piece of garbage. So let's you know it is very clear that what they've

01:13:59   decided to do is make something that looks you know but works great you would expect

01:14:05   right like that's the plan. There's a weird way in which I almost wonder. Did they make

01:14:13   it look a little ugly? Like what I would want to do is I would want to get one of the Apple

01:14:18   designers who worked on it and give them a little bit of sodium pentothal and be like

01:14:21   - Listen.

01:14:22   - I don't know what that is, but I'm terrified

01:14:23   that you've pulled that out.

01:14:25   (laughing)

01:14:27   - Like, I wanna know, I wanna know what's in the deep

01:14:30   recesses of your mind, and not the Apple PR spin of like,

01:14:33   oh, it's a beautiful product.

01:14:35   Like, there's a way in which I wonder if it's almost

01:14:39   a little bit of a signal that like, it's very functional,

01:14:44   it's not a gorgeous machine, and that is almost a way

01:14:48   to signal that this is a professional machine.

01:14:50   The thing that is all quite about is it has so many holes in it, a lot of holes in it.

01:14:54   Okay, I have to say something about these holes.

01:14:58   So everybody's talking about like the fear of holes things and how holes can look gross,

01:15:02   trypophobia like you don't, nobody Google it.

01:15:06   It's always a joke but don't.

01:15:07   But here's the thing, I don't think it's that because I've been looking at it very close

01:15:12   and what I think is the weird design decision that I don't understand is it's not the holes

01:15:16   themselves but it's that there's two grates of holes that are offset from each other.

01:15:22   I actually think that they may have done that to offset the trypophobia effect.

01:15:26   Yeah so you have these two grates but the thing that you can tell from videos of it

01:15:31   or what is that actually one of the few times I think AR is quite cool is like looking at

01:15:34   the AR models of it.

01:15:36   Yeah that's really cool.

01:15:37   But the grates have a lot of distance between them and so when you're looking at it from

01:15:43   different angles the back set holes move quite a lot compared to the front set

01:15:48   holes and and the thing that I don't like is I find it creates an optical

01:15:52   illusion where from some angles it almost looks like I'm trying to think

01:15:58   about is the way that you can draw an object and you can shade it such that if

01:16:02   you're looking at it it can look like it's recessing into the page and then

01:16:06   all of a sudden it can look like it's popping out of the page. Like when you

01:16:08   see people drawing on the street. Yeah. Or is it coming out? Or does it look like it's real?

01:16:15   Like standing up. Right. And I find I have a little bit of that effect that I don't like,

01:16:19   that from some angles it actually looks like there's bubbles that are popping out that have

01:16:25   a little hole in the center. So that, so I like it took me a while to pin down what don't I like.

01:16:29   It's not the trypophobia thing. I think that's a little overblown. I mean unless you suffer from

01:16:33   it greatly or whatever. I mean for me like when I saw it I was a little bit like oh does that make

01:16:38   me feel weird but it's not that. I just don't think that it is a very attractive

01:16:42   computer. Like it has some strength like it's that as well but then also the big

01:16:48   handles the big stainless steel handles and there's the aluminium case. It is just a

01:16:53   very particular looking thing. It looks a lot like the previous Mac Pro which was

01:17:02   lovingly referred to as the cheese grater I think on purpose they could

01:17:09   have made it look any shape and any color like for example this is not space gray

01:17:13   mm-hmm it is silver like the old Mac Pro mm-hmm when Apple had said that pro

01:17:19   devices were space gray that's why the iMac Pro is space gray that's why the Mac

01:17:24   mini space gray because they're trying to position it towards the pro market

01:17:26   more but then the Mac Pro is not grey. Yeah. Which is weird. I honest like if

01:17:34   there's one thing about it that I think could make a big difference for not very

01:17:37   much is I think it would look better if they just darkened the colors like

01:17:40   it's grey it would have much less of that weirdness if they just darkened it

01:17:45   up so like I give the I give the light color a big thumbs down but I can also

01:17:52   understand why they might want to do it this way to try to distinguish it but I

01:17:56   I if I if I had one of those things to be like can I spray paint this like will

01:18:01   spray paint stick to the surface of this? I guess dbrand right? Oh yeah I'm sure

01:18:06   there must be a dbrand skin where that I can line up with all the holes just

01:18:09   perfectly. I'm looking at it in AR right now and I'm like moving it around and it

01:18:13   is really weird how that how it changes. Do you see how much the holes change from different

01:18:17   angles? Oh it's like a lot of eyes now. Yeah like at an extreme angle it looks

01:18:22   like eyes popping out. Yeah that's so weird. That was the thing that I

01:18:26   settled on like this is what I don't like. I find the little feet kind of strange

01:18:30   like there's like a lot of things about it that are super weird but it's

01:18:34   incredibly powerful. So I was talking to a friend of mine, a friend

01:18:40   Austin Evans, he was a wonderful tech youtuber and I said I asked him the

01:18:46   graphics cards that Apple are putting in this thing they're talking about how

01:18:49   powerful it is like what do you think about it and he's like seems pretty

01:18:53   legit like that they're not joking with this like and it's one of those things

01:18:58   like our Apple and they continue to make the modules that you need to continue to

01:19:02   make this thing better over time who knows but what they're putting in it

01:19:07   which is like they rebrand AMD cards right so they're like AMD cards that you

01:19:10   can buy and then they kind of rebrand them with Apple and put them in this new

01:19:15   package. It is super powerful but I think it's too powerful for most people.

01:19:20   Oh and like... All of it is. Yeah this thing is very clearly a device for

01:19:27   professionals. In a way that the iMac Pro is like oh it's iMac Pro but also you

01:19:33   know you can buy one and it can be like a nice high-end computer. But yeah that

01:19:41   like I found that whole presentation really interesting and in particular when they were

01:19:48   going through the specs it's like they couldn't hit harder a bunch of bullet points for people

01:19:54   who work in the video field like that is what they were just hitting like over and over again

01:19:59   um and the one that like the we were laughing because at some point like the numbers are just

01:20:05   so big and like it can do a hundred million things like you're losing your mind and they

01:20:08   they go through all this this incredible stuff. A thousand tracks in Logic. Oh yeah

01:20:12   yeah the demo of a thousand Logic tracks. If you have a thousand tracks in Logic what are you

01:20:16   doing? What song are you making? Yeah. Or like the biggest podcast ever. Yeah it's

01:20:23   like oh you know yeah it was yeah the demos the demos were just absurd but

01:20:30   then the thing that made me smile is like they go through all of this stuff

01:20:33   and then at the end they're like oh we've also built a custom module that

01:20:37   will offload all the work of handling the ProRes codec, which for anyone who

01:20:42   works in Final Cut knows, "Oh, this is the whole thing that Final Cut is based on,"

01:20:46   is like converting all your files into this particular codec, and then the

01:20:50   machine works with that codec. And it's like, "Oh, okay, so all these amazing things

01:20:53   that you've already shown me, none of that has to even shoulder the burden of

01:20:58   like the primary processing of video files." Like it just, it is a product that

01:21:03   feels really aimed at like every film and production studio in the world. That is very

01:21:09   clearly what they're going for. Even with like the reference monitor stuff.

01:21:13   I'm like why though? Like this is the thing I don't I'm kind of struggling to get my head

01:21:17   around it a little bit. What do you mean?

01:21:20   I just don't know. I just don't know if how important a computer this is for Apple to be making.

01:21:28   I'm not sure because the Mac Pro used to have a much wider capture of people. Like the catchment

01:21:39   area for this computer were people like me and you. We would buy Mac Pros. Yeah. Right?

01:21:44   This one feels so purpose-built for specific use cases. I'm just not sure

01:21:55   what the business reason is going into the future,

01:22:00   which would give me pause for thought

01:22:02   in buying one if I needed one.

01:22:04   - I'll say this, and here's what I was wondering about

01:22:08   when I thought about it later.

01:22:10   I know a lot of professionals in the video world

01:22:16   who were specifically concerned, even after the iMac Pro,

01:22:21   that they just didn't really have anywhere to go with Apple.

01:22:25   Like real production houses, you know, the kinds of places that are producing television documentaries and movies and like very complicated YouTube channels, like that kind of stuff.

01:22:38   And feeling like these are businesses that deal with huge revenues and their concern was even if they buy a bunch of iMac Pros, they still feel like they're hitting up against the CPU limits for that kind of thing.

01:22:53   So what I wonder, and I just kind of think about it as well with Apple getting into like production stuff itself, the Apple TV stuff is, do they...

01:23:03   They just think it's important.

01:23:05   Yeah, do they think it's important to own the mind share of people in the media production industry?

01:23:15   And I can think that that is a good target to have.

01:23:19   - I agree that I think it's important.

01:23:21   I just wanna see commitment in the long term.

01:23:27   - Commitment is always up in the air.

01:23:28   - Because they have decided

01:23:30   to not make this computer anymore, right?

01:23:34   That was clearly the route they were going down

01:23:36   because the circular Mac Pro was a disaster.

01:23:39   So then they were gonna make the iMac Pro

01:23:42   to solve the problem.

01:23:43   But then people were so upset, they decided,

01:23:45   no, we are gonna make another Mac Pro.

01:23:47   The iMac Pro was supposed to be the top computer.

01:23:51   Like that was very clear.

01:23:52   And then they backtracked on that idea.

01:23:56   So like I know that like there's obviously discussions

01:23:58   inside of Apple and battles were fought and battles were won.

01:24:02   But like it's just interesting to me that like,

01:24:05   you decided you weren't gonna do this anymore.

01:24:09   Then you went bonkers and built this incredible computer.

01:24:14   - But I really am.

01:24:16   But it's such a 180, that's what I find weird about this.

01:24:19   - Yeah, but I really suspect that there actually

01:24:24   is a connection with the Apple TV production.

01:24:27   - I think that is a cool theory, I like that.

01:24:29   - Simply being exposed more directly to production houses

01:24:34   and production houses needs.

01:24:36   - This is a disaster, we need to make a computer for this.

01:24:39   - And my actual evidence for this is how much

01:24:44   they focused on that monitor as a replacement for reference monitors.

01:24:48   Let's talk about the monitor.

01:24:49   Yeah, but like, yeah, so they've made this crazy monitor, but there's a thing which,

01:24:54   if you've never worked with anybody in the media production world, like this really does

01:24:58   sound crazy, but you need these very special monitors.

01:25:03   Why?

01:25:04   Because this is like, it was showing me this presentation, you know about reference monitors,

01:25:09   right?

01:25:10   Yeah.

01:25:11   I don't know what that means.

01:25:12   Nobody watches content on a reference monitor, so why is it important?

01:25:16   Yeah, okay, so like...

01:25:18   I'm trying to think of a use case for a reference monitor.

01:25:21   Say you're a relatively small YouTube channel who wants to do something like shoot an interview.

01:25:26   This is like a normal person scenario for doing something.

01:25:29   And you've got like a Canon camera with you.

01:25:31   You want to shoot an interview. Well, you run it immediately to two problems.

01:25:34   One of the problems, which is hilarious, is because of tax reasons with the EU,

01:25:38   No handheld camera can shoot for more than 30 minutes continuously, right?

01:25:43   Because if it could shoot for more than 30 minutes continuously it has to be

01:25:46   classified as like a video production device. Which is a higher tax bracket.

01:25:49   Which is a higher tax bracket. So there's an artificial limit but one of the ways

01:25:52   to get around this is with a reference monitor which is this little

01:25:55   monitor that you can bring with you to attach to the camera and the reference

01:26:00   monitor can record for as long as you need it to and you can do an interview

01:26:05   interview that's four hours long you're still using your Canon camera but the

01:26:10   reference monitor is actually the thing that's doing the capture on the other

01:26:13   end. I didn't know that, I didn't know that, okay. Yeah so so here this is just

01:26:19   an example of like what is a sort of normal use case. This is not what that's

01:26:23   not what this monitor does. Well yeah but I'm just like building this up like what

01:26:26   is the concept of the thing and the reference monitor is doing two things

01:26:30   one it's taking the hit of being in the tax bracket of an actual production

01:26:34   machine that nobody in their right mind is buying this unless they have a

01:26:37   specific professional use for it. Because they're like oh they do you mean the

01:26:41   reference the reference monitor because like the Apple said they're like

01:26:44   $40,000. Yeah so so yeah like if you want to buy a reference monitor for this kind

01:26:48   of thing like you're gonna be spending a lot of money they're hugely

01:26:51   variable in price. And I found out from my friend Alex that like if you want to

01:26:56   rent them like a thousand dollars a day yeah all like a week or so they're

01:26:59   massively expensive. Yeah and so the second thing that a reference monitor

01:27:03   does is it is it is able to display the image in a bunch of ways that are useful

01:27:11   to professionals okay the briefest way I can explain this is you want to be able

01:27:18   to have a video camera shoot in something that's close to like a raw

01:27:21   mode for photography so that you can manipulate the colors as much as you

01:27:25   want afterward but the way that actually looks if you look at the back of the of

01:27:32   of the camera doing the capture is it doesn't look right.

01:27:34   The colors look all wrong because it's just recording

01:27:37   as much information as possible.

01:27:39   So that signal is pumped into a reference monitor

01:27:41   and the reference monitor's whole job

01:27:44   is to as accurately as possible represent the colors

01:27:46   that you're actually going to see.

01:27:48   - It is trying to be your eye.

01:27:51   - Yeah, so it is like a replacement eye

01:27:53   is a good way to think about it

01:27:54   because you have to put the camera in this funny mode.

01:27:56   - Okay.

01:27:57   - But also because of that then,

01:27:59   they are some of the highest quality screens

01:28:02   that you can purchase on planet earth.

01:28:04   - Okay.

01:28:05   - Because directors are looking at it

01:28:07   for a concept of what are they shooting.

01:28:10   And so that's why like--

01:28:11   - Okay, I see--

01:28:12   - Christ becomes no option.

01:28:13   - Like pictures of directors

01:28:15   looking at these super weird monitors.

01:28:17   - Yeah, so if you like,

01:28:18   if you see behind the scenes of any modern movie--

01:28:20   - They look like old CRTs, it looks so strange.

01:28:23   - They look very strange,

01:28:24   but what you don't see for the last 10 years

01:28:27   is a director looking into a camera, right?

01:28:29   They'll usually have some setup with a bunch of screens

01:28:32   that they're looking at.

01:28:32   Those are all reference monitors,

01:28:34   because what is being captured by the camera

01:28:37   is not something that's really great

01:28:38   for the human to look directly at.

01:28:40   - And that's because they're capturing a version

01:28:43   of the footage that can be easily edited and color corrected.

01:28:47   - Yes, that's correct. - Right, 'cause it's trying

01:28:48   to capture as much information as possible.

01:28:49   So looking at it with the eye is a nightmare.

01:28:52   - Yeah, looking at the image directly

01:28:54   doesn't really help you.

01:28:55   But in order to be able to do that is also very computationally intensive at the time.

01:29:00   And then also just like you need the screen to look amazing because the director has to

01:29:04   have the best sense of what's going on.

01:29:06   But that is also why like price is no limit for these things.

01:29:11   Because if you're shooting the next Star Wars movie like what do you care the cost of the

01:29:16   thing that the director is looking at?

01:29:17   It just doesn't matter.

01:29:20   But that's why Apple was pushing so hard that this screen, I think they are genuinely marketing

01:29:27   it as, "Hey, aren't you tired of looking at these garbage reference monitors in these

01:29:31   weird setups?

01:29:33   Why don't you buy five of these instead and look at these?"

01:29:36   I also think that's why the stand that people are laughing at is like this ridiculous stand.

01:29:42   One of its big features is this like ease of detachment and reattachment with the magnetic

01:29:47   background, with magnetic back.

01:29:49   And I think that's exactly what they're going for there is like you're using this in a professional

01:29:53   scenario where people are moving around, you're changing the set, you might want to have a

01:29:57   bunch of different workstations set up, you've got five of these screens and when you move

01:30:01   over here just like boom boom boom click them in and you have a little station that's ready

01:30:05   to go.

01:30:06   The reason people are making fun of understand those because it's a thousand dollars and

01:30:09   you don't get one.

01:30:10   Yeah, no, yeah.

01:30:11   Which is insanity.

01:30:13   It is hilarious.

01:30:16   And the way it was, it went by.

01:30:18   It was so funny.

01:30:19   It went by so fast on the actual WWDC that I missed it.

01:30:24   It went by so fast I can't believe they even bothered to say it.

01:30:28   They wanted to say it so little, I don't know why they ever did.

01:30:31   Yeah, I don't know why they bothered either. It was a terrible disaster on their part.

01:30:37   But I think in the context of who were they pushing this for, it actually kind of makes sense.

01:30:43   But that's why I think I can easily see Apple's interaction with the TV world.

01:30:48   They're looking at like, what are your problems?

01:30:51   How can we build a machine that solves your problems?

01:30:54   But it's also why I expect that the upgrade pricing on that Mac Pro is going to be insanity upgrade pricing,

01:31:02   because they're pitching it at companies that just simply don't care.

01:31:05   Yeah, I cannot wait for the tool to come out where you can max out the cost.

01:31:10   Oh my God.

01:31:11   It's the best thing ever to do. I love it.

01:31:13   And this one starts at like six grand and it has like a 256 gigabyte hard drive.

01:31:18   With SSD.

01:31:20   We did not talk about the matte display, though, which is kind of bonkers where they've etched glass

01:31:28   to make it look like a matte effect.

01:31:31   Yeah, it's nano etching of the glass to scatter the light rays coming in.

01:31:34   That's wild, right?

01:31:36   Here's the thing, Myke. You know what's the problem with something like that?

01:31:38   As I look at it and I think, it raises expectations for something else.

01:31:43   I'm gonna say something that I know is not gonna happen.

01:31:48   But Apple, if you're listening,

01:31:51   I know you like to raise the average selling price of your devices.

01:31:55   Okay.

01:31:59   And look, you've just introduced

01:32:03   a beautiful new dark mode. What is the one Achilles heel of dark mode?

01:32:08   is reflections. I will pay anything for an iPhone and an iPad and an iPad with a

01:32:19   nano etched screen. But the problem is what side is it etched? What do you mean?

01:32:25   Because if it's etched on the side where you're rubbing your finger on it is that

01:32:29   gonna feel weird? They can make it work. Okay. We won't worry about that. Look, Apple, you know, I mean

01:32:37   Despite the fact that they're very clear like it's a total disaster to actually touch that nano etch screen and you know

01:32:41   Really 100% shouldn't yeah, really? I really want to touch it. Yeah, they're never putting those in the Apple Store

01:32:46   Yeah, I did kind of imagine it's like cuz it's like tiny cock like you run your finger in it

01:32:51   So I cut myself on my screen

01:32:53   It's nanoscale and I think I think if I remember correctly from the diagram, there's a layer on top of the nano etching anyway

01:32:59   Okay, but but yeah, it's like all I was thinking of is like Apple Apple

01:33:03   You can charge me anything for a matte screen on an iPhone and an iPad like that average that average selling price

01:33:09   You can make it happen

01:33:11   Nano texture glass

01:33:14   How fun all right, I want to know though, I mean, I know we're a way away from this is coming like towards the end of the

01:33:21   year

01:33:22   Do we read these products interest you like do they feel like something that you would want use an iMac Pro, right?

01:33:28   Yeah, I've got a Mac Pro right now

01:33:31   I mean, again, I know we're talking about a lot of this stuff, like that it is priced at a very specific type of user.

01:33:39   But you are a specific type of user as well. Do these things intrigue you?

01:33:46   I can say that the Mac Pro itself doesn't.

01:33:49   Really?

01:33:51   For a couple of reasons. One of which is I do think that the price is going to be insane.

01:33:55   And it's interesting.

01:33:57   For what you would want.

01:34:00   is the base model machine as bench tested against an upgraded iMac Pro,

01:34:08   which is what I have, the upgraded iMac Pro will actually outperform the base

01:34:13   model Mac Pro. Why did you see that? I've seen a couple of youtubers run the

01:34:18   actual state, like I've seen it from channels that I would trust on this kind

01:34:21   of thing, but I could even believe like let's say that they're slightly wrong,

01:34:24   that the base model is only going to be like a marginal improvement, right, which

01:34:28   for many thousands of dollars is not worth doing.

01:34:32   Yeah, because it will go to 28 cores.

01:34:34   Yeah.

01:34:35   Which is just like...

01:34:36   Yeah, it's insane.

01:34:37   Alright.

01:34:38   Do you want to work before I ask you?

01:34:41   What do you want to do, computer?

01:34:42   1.5 terabytes of RAM.

01:34:44   I know, yeah.

01:34:45   I cannot wait to see how much money 1.5 terabytes of RAM costs.

01:34:50   I'm saying it now.

01:34:53   I'm willing to bet.

01:34:55   Ooh, let's play this game.

01:34:57   I'm willing to bet that you could spec this machine up to 50 grand.

01:35:04   I will say you could go over.

01:35:06   I reckon that you go over.

01:35:09   You get like a few terabytes of storage and 1.0 terabytes of RAM.

01:35:13   Let's not include the display.

01:35:15   Yeah, you know, I'm just talking about the machine itself.

01:35:19   I think you might be able to go over.

01:35:21   I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

01:35:23   I feel like pretty confident in saying like you'll be able to spec this out to

01:35:27   a 50 grand machine but again that's why like like what we were saying before is

01:35:31   like this is not a machine that is aimed at like individuals in any real way so I

01:35:38   can say that the Mac Pro is like yeah sure if I had a spare 50 grand lying

01:35:44   around that had to be spent on a Mac Pro like tax time yes like a tax incentive

01:35:50   or something, then I wouldn't be sad to have one, right?

01:35:53   But I just, I cannot imagine justifying that machine

01:35:59   for like the actual needs that I would have.

01:36:02   Now, the monitor on the other hand

01:36:04   is very interesting to me.

01:36:06   - But what would you plug into it?

01:36:08   - So, I can't possibly get into all of this, Myke,

01:36:12   but I'm very interested to see what did they release

01:36:19   the actual things that that monitor plugs into. Because they've been super cagey about

01:36:24   it, and I've spoken to people who were on the inside trying to get more details, and

01:36:28   like Apple was officially very cagey about what is this going to plug into.

01:36:32   So the hope is this rumoured 16-inch MacBook Pro, which might come at some point, people

01:36:39   hoping before the end of the year, is a candidate for you. Right? Like, really cool MacBook

01:36:45   Pro that can plug into this monitor and be very powerful.

01:36:49   So like here's the thing that I've heard, I haven't verified this.

01:36:52   So Apple said it will plug into like the newest 15 inch MacBook.

01:36:58   But what's not clear and what people weren't able to get an answer about is like, do you

01:37:02   mean the one that was just spec bumped?

01:37:04   Or do you mean like the new, like there's no clarity on that.

01:37:09   And it also, the monitor does not run at full resolution plugged into the laptop.

01:37:13   But you would expect any pro laptop that comes out around the time or after this should be.

01:37:21   Yeah, you would hope that it should be able to run it at native resolution.

01:37:25   The other thing that I would, it might be ridiculous, but I would love to know is, can the iMac Pro run it at full resolution?

01:37:31   I could easily imagine not, but I'm just like, I'd be curious to know.

01:37:35   Or a Mac Mini.

01:37:37   But what do you have to do to it? Will they make it possible for you to run

01:37:43   maybe not four, but how well could a Mac Mini do with it?

01:37:47   I want to know what are the actual results. My guess is that Apple itself

01:37:51   right now doesn't exactly know what device it's going to run at.

01:37:54   And also that they're probably making calculations about what

01:37:58   resolutions are they willing to accept on which kind of devices

01:38:01   and which ones are they just going to say no about.

01:38:03   But the additional complication is I've moved out of my glass cube. I don't have that office anymore.

01:38:12   And when I return to London, I'm going to start a new office search.

01:38:20   We've been through this before. Let's just build a building. Cortex towers.

01:38:26   Cortex brand buildings.

01:38:28   look me and you we both need an office why are we messing around? We can talk

01:38:34   about that later but I am gonna be on a search for a new office and that is

01:38:44   gonna end up being like a whole rethink of like what machines do I want where

01:38:47   and also trying to think about like well what eventually does that monitor

01:38:51   actually plug into so yeah so I don't know the answer is if they come out and

01:38:56   like oh the only thing that can actually run it really is the Mac Pro then like I'll just

01:39:01   be a sad boy and use that garbage LG monitor.

01:39:05   Oh yeah, I feel like they should make another monitor.

01:39:11   I yeah, I really wish that they would make a smaller cheaper one.

01:39:14   I think they've gone a bit, the Mac Pro I'm more willing to kind of just be like yeah

01:39:19   ok.

01:39:20   Yeah Mac Pro whatever, I think it makes sense as a product.

01:39:22   Apple make multiple machines that can either use or require a monitor. Like the Mac Mini.

01:39:29   I think that it wouldn't be terrible for them to be like here is a monitor that looks like this one

01:39:35   which is 4k or 5k and is not intended to be a reference monitor used on film sets.

01:39:42   But it's just a nice monitor. I could take HDR not the Super HDR. XDR! Extreme!

01:39:50   I kept saying to you during WWDC,

01:39:52   I was like, what does that mean?

01:39:54   Like I don't--

01:39:54   - It's extreme, it's more dynamic range

01:39:57   than you can handle, is what it is.

01:39:58   - But I was trying to think through what I know

01:40:01   about video and coding processes.

01:40:03   I'm like, what do you mean it's X, like HDR,

01:40:05   that's where it goes, like that's the limit, right?

01:40:09   You know, they're like, oh, we've got more than the limit.

01:40:11   Like I don't know-- - Highest dynamic range.

01:40:13   - Yeah, it's like, okay, you're a million

01:40:14   to one contrast ratio, that I fully understand.

01:40:16   You can always do better in contrast ratios,

01:40:17   but like I don't understand what you mean

01:40:19   this super XDR. Pro display XDR. It's not even a good name. It's a very strange name.

01:40:25   I wish that they made a 4k version of it. Like if they made a 4k version that could, you know,

01:40:30   run on a Mac Mini, it'd be like a no-brainer decision. But yeah, like that monitor gives me

01:40:36   real pause. I do really want it, partly because I hate my LG so much. But it is a product that for

01:40:43   for me is going to just very much depend on the particulars like what is it.

01:40:47   Myke- and it is catastrophically expensive.

01:40:49   Will- yeah I know.

01:40:51   Myke- like so to get the matte one with a stand is $7,000.

01:40:56   Will- I know Myke it's like it makes my heart still.

01:41:00   Myke- it's unbelievable.

01:41:01   Will- it's unbelievably expensive.

01:41:03   Myke- like the computer and the monitor start at the same price.

01:41:09   Will- I know I know.

01:41:11   And that's before you I think it's that before you add on the stand

01:41:15   Yeah, no, they each start at six grand with a monitor that can connect to nothing not even a visa. They each start five

01:41:22   Oh, right. That's right. It's

01:41:24   Five for the standard six for the mat, right?

01:41:27   Then you add nine hundred dollars for a stand or a thousand dollars for a stand

01:41:32   Yeah

01:41:35   But this way it's wild it's a

01:41:40   That's a big old price.

01:41:42   Yeah, but that's why I'm convinced this is really aimed at super pros.

01:41:47   That's what it's for. That's why I don't really have any interest in it.

01:41:50   I mean, I know that you're converting your whole work setup to be an iPad on an external screen with a keyboard.

01:41:57   I don't think my lovely little iPad could power one of those bad boys.

01:42:03   That would be amazing though.

01:42:04   Could you imagine? They're like the Mac mini can't, but the iPad can.

01:42:08   I would love that. I would love, especially if they could actually do the red, like, you can have your iPad at 6K.

01:42:14   You can see in between the pixels.

01:42:19   That would be amazing.