80: Ice Fortress


00:00:00   levels levels they're good i nearly just destroyed my microphone levels levels what is levels levels

00:00:06   levels levels is where you check the levels mike you look at the little bars

00:00:10   and you see if they go to the edge okay and that's when you've over leveled and you have to turn

00:00:17   down the game you have to turn down the level i don't know i don't know how microphones work

00:00:21   you just like if it goes red it's bad yeah and if i if some of these dials on this mysterious

00:00:27   equipment in front of me like if my leg accidentally touches it and then they move and then the

00:00:30   levels are bad and then it sounds bad. So you gotta do a levels levels check before

00:00:34   you start a podcast.

00:00:35   It's probably best to just not have the equipment in the vicinity of your flailing body to amend

00:00:43   it. Like I think that might be a good start.

00:00:46   There's nothing flailing about my body but you know it's a very small black booth that

00:00:50   I'm recording in here there's not a lot of space like I'm gonna I'm gonna bump stuff

00:00:53   It's gonna happen sometimes.

00:00:55   Anyway, Merry Groundhog Day, Myke.

00:00:59   - Is this the thing that people wish to each other?

00:01:03   - Yeah, Americans wish each other Merry Groundhog Day.

00:01:06   I'm sure you must, yeah, they do.

00:01:08   - They're lying to me.

00:01:09   This is one of those things where like,

00:01:10   then I go and tell other people this.

00:01:12   - I'm 100% not lying to you.

00:01:15   Did you know it was Groundhog Day?

00:01:17   - No.

00:01:19   - It's very culturally insensitive.

00:01:22   But yes, Americans say "Merry Groundhog Day" to each other, and I just wanted to let you

00:01:27   know, Puxatony Phil did not see his shadow, so spring is coming early.

00:01:32   Get prepared.

00:01:33   There's so many things that I like only tangentially understand about that sentence that you just...

00:01:40   I don't understand what's not to understand about that sentence, Myke.

00:01:43   Like I know who Puxatony Phil is because of Groundhog Day the movie.

00:01:48   Right, of course, the one true Groundhog, yes.

00:01:51   But I don't get the whole, like, "Oh, you see this shadow and then why that has anything

00:01:57   to do with spring." Like, I just don't understand this.

00:02:01   Yeah, but that's fine. Like, no one understands that. That's just the magic of the groundhogs.

00:02:06   Like, how do, you know, how does Santa know if you've been good or not? Well, that's

00:02:12   the magic of Santa. Because he's always watching.

00:02:14   Yeah, because he sees you when you're sleeping. Because he's a creepster. We all know it.

00:02:17   The sun tells us. He knows when we're awake. Yeah. So, Puxatonic Phil.

00:02:21   That's the magic of him.

00:02:23   I'm still not convinced that people say "Merry Groundhog Day" to each other.

00:02:27   I still think that you're punking me with this one.

00:02:29   I am not. I wouldn't do that.

00:02:31   Okay.

00:02:32   Anyway, I just wanted to wish you a merry groundhog day.

00:02:36   And I hope that you had known, but obviously you didn't.

00:02:40   [Ding]

00:02:41   Slack has a new logo.

00:02:43   Yeah.

00:02:44   Now, when we were preparing for this show,

00:02:48   I kind of made reference to this,

00:02:50   And you said to me, "We are definitely talking about the new Slack logo."

00:02:54   Yeah.

00:02:56   And it feels like that this kind of thing fits very neatly into our show.

00:03:01   So this was announced a few weeks ago, kind of out of the blue, as all these

00:03:05   corporate re-brands tend to be.

00:03:07   They have a new logo.

00:03:09   They have a blog post.

00:03:10   I actually quite like their blog post about the new logo.

00:03:14   I think as far as talking about new logos go, they did a good job of it.

00:03:18   Like I think they explained clearly why they wanted to do it.

00:03:21   And we can debate or not whether these make any sense as reasons.

00:03:25   But I think that, you know, they weren't too fancy about it.

00:03:27   They didn't do what Evernote did, right?

00:03:29   They had like a 10,000 word article showing all the designs.

00:03:34   I think they clearly broke it down.

00:03:36   I think Slack are self-aware enough to know that people were going to hate this.

00:03:39   They were like tweeting beforehand and they were kind of just like,

00:03:43   all right, everyone get ready to have some opinions, right?

00:03:45   Like they they're self-aware enough as a company and the people that they know that no matter what they did, because that's just how this goes,

00:03:52   no matter what you do with a logo rebrand, there will be people that won't like it.

00:03:56   There are a lot of people that don't like this one.

00:03:59   And I was just kind of keen to understand just just off the bat what your opinion is of Slack's new logo.

00:04:09   Well, it looks like a d*** pinwheel.

00:04:12   Now do you think I'm... we're going into one of these situations again where like you say a thing

00:04:17   and like do you think I'm like I can't... there's no like no one will hear that right because like

00:04:23   I'm just gonna bleep it. Yeah but just keep the sound of the first letter Myke give me that.

00:04:28   Okay okay yes sure. I know I know your sensorial hand is always eager on the button. Don't do this

00:04:33   you just can't you say this then people people make they say things about me.

00:04:40   [Laughter]

00:04:44   I don't know what you're talking about, Myke.

00:04:46   Because you're not on the internet. Oh yeah, that's what it is. I forgot about that.

00:04:49   Yeah, I'm immune now. I'm immune now, b*tch!

00:04:53   My assumption would be, like, I don't know how you would feel, like, do you like a d*ck pin, Will?

00:04:57   Like, I'm not sure that, like, you could say it looks like that, but is it, is that a pleasant image to you? I don't know.

00:05:04   I just think it's funny because when you do a like a rebranding, you're always in danger

00:05:10   of the thing that you don't see as the client or the designer and then it gets out there

00:05:18   into the world and someone looks at it and you think, "Oh, I know what that looks like.

00:05:24   It looks like this thing."

00:05:26   And that to me is a little bit of the Slack logo.

00:05:29   To be fair, I guess as far as d***ing wheels go, it's not a bad one.

00:05:35   Of all the d***ing wheels I've ever seen in my life, this is probably my favorite!

00:05:43   I don't know, I figured we just had to mention it on the show because I feel like having

00:05:48   torn Evernote to shreds for their hilarious, not-at-all self-knowing blog post about their

00:05:53   deep design process to come up with a logo that looks exactly the same as their existing logo.

00:06:00   I feel like the Slack one is the total inverse in both directions.

00:06:05   Yes, at least they did something different, right?

00:06:07   Right. It is definitely a different logo. It looks different.

00:06:13   You did that. You definitely made a different one. You set out to make a new one and oh boy,

00:06:18   did you. You did it. Congratulations.

00:06:21   - And then I agree with you.

00:06:23   I don't like the new Slack logo,

00:06:26   but I will give, as with you,

00:06:29   I will give them points for a blog post

00:06:32   that doesn't make it feel like they've lost

00:06:35   the plot of reality or what people care about.

00:06:36   Like they did, like you said, they went through,

00:06:38   here's a couple of their concerns about colors and angles

00:06:42   and how it's represented differently.

00:06:45   And they brought up a couple of things

00:06:46   that I never even really thought about,

00:06:47   that the app icon doesn't match the logo at all

00:06:52   because I've used Slack for so long,

00:06:54   those two things in my head are just what Slack are.

00:06:56   So they went through a reasonable list of complaints

00:06:58   as a company about here's why we wanted to come up

00:07:00   with a new logo and then they're like,

00:07:01   and here's our new logo.

00:07:03   I just, I think it's kind of a tragedy though

00:07:05   because I'm not the first and I won't be the last

00:07:09   to say this, but I think Slack had great branding

00:07:11   and ultimately they're just a work chat tool

00:07:15   And I think one of the things that made them

00:07:18   so incredibly successful was even just like

00:07:21   the color scheme that they picked

00:07:23   and the friendliness of the logo and everything.

00:07:26   So I feel like they lost a real asset

00:07:29   by getting rid of their old logo.

00:07:31   And yeah, the new one is just sort of very forgettable

00:07:36   and very generic, but I think that's kind of

00:07:40   what they were going for.

00:07:41   - Yeah, I wanna come back to that genericness in a minute

00:07:44   I have some theories. But like, so the actual Slack logo in the abstract, I actually think is a pleasant

00:07:51   logo. Like, I think it's fine, right? Like, if Slack launched originally with this logo,

00:07:58   I don't think it would have made much of a difference because it still has a weird playfulness

00:08:05   to it, right? Like, it still doesn't look like a lot of things that you see in corporate design,

00:08:11   but it isn't as nice or fun as the old one.

00:08:15   As a thing that exists, I think it's fine,

00:08:19   but I do miss what it used to look like a little bit,

00:08:23   but not so much.

00:08:24   It doesn't like, I'm not angry about it.

00:08:26   I do think that the new app icon is a bit more boring,

00:08:31   that it's just the logo in a purple square.

00:08:35   But this is, look, they gave some reasons

00:08:38   as to why they're doing this,

00:08:40   But I think that they are not talking about the real reason why they did this is, Slack

00:08:45   is an enterprise company now and they make enterprise apps and they needed a serious

00:08:50   logo now.

00:08:53   And look at the colours!

00:08:54   It's blue, green, red and yellow.

00:08:58   Like Microsoft, like Google.

00:09:01   They didn't even keep the same colours.

00:09:04   They changed the way that the colours looked.

00:09:06   I think that it's very much like, "Oh, we're serious now.

00:09:10   We're a serious company now, and this is our serious logo."

00:09:13   They pull a nice little trick with the animated GIF on their page that shows off the new logo,

00:09:19   which if you're not paying attention, makes it look like they've kept the same colors,

00:09:23   but they have a little animation flourish that hides where they're doing the color transition

00:09:29   to the new ones to make it less obvious.

00:09:31   They have all four balls of color overlap each other for a split second.

00:09:34   I was like, I know why you did that.

00:09:36   Someone who works with a lot of animation.

00:09:38   I can see that now.

00:09:40   I know why you had them overlap in the center.

00:09:42   You didn't need to do that.

00:09:44   Damn, that's good.

00:09:46   Yeah, it's well done.

00:09:48   It's well done because it makes you

00:09:49   think that it's not as different as it is different.

00:09:51   They're not as fun anymore.

00:09:53   The red used to be more like a purpley red,

00:09:56   but now it looks like a kind of a regular red to me.

00:09:59   There is some changes going on there.

00:10:01   Huh.

00:10:02   Yeah, because they've muted it all a little bit, haven't they, I think?

00:10:04   It's less pastel-y and more Microsoft on the edge of colors there.

00:10:09   It is super funny when you line them all up, right?

00:10:13   You line up Google and Microsoft and now Slack and it's just like...

00:10:16   What is it? Like someone made a decision, someone did some research at some point

00:10:23   where they were like, "Oh, we've got to stick to the primary colors."

00:10:26   We all know this because human beings' brains are wired in such a way

00:10:30   at the primary colors of this, this, and this, right?

00:10:33   Like, you know somebody did it at some point, right?

00:10:36   And now everyone knows,

00:10:37   ah, you gotta stick to the primary colors.

00:10:39   Don't go crazy.

00:10:40   - I don't remember if it was Google

00:10:42   or a researcher at Google,

00:10:43   but I remember reading an article

00:10:45   about how they intensely tested all of the colors

00:10:49   when they wrote Google in color letters on the search page.

00:10:52   And it did matter when they blued up the blue of the G,

00:10:57   and it did matter when they redded up the red

00:10:59   of one of the O's, that it had a measurable effect

00:11:02   on the number of people using the site.

00:11:05   So yeah, I presume that that is true.

00:11:08   It's an interesting idea that you have,

00:11:09   that they've done this because they want

00:11:11   to be more enterprising.

00:11:13   And I think I can kind of go along with it,

00:11:16   but I don't know.

00:11:18   I don't feel like the old logo was too unserious.

00:11:23   I feel like it hit a really nice balance

00:11:25   of being friendly, but also not silly.

00:11:29   Well, I think part of what's going on, part of my point is they don't have a...

00:11:34   It's the reason they want the brand consistency is so it remains

00:11:40   permanent within corporate, in the corporate world.

00:11:44   Like this is our logo.

00:11:45   You see that, you know what it means.

00:11:47   And if they keep changing it like they do, because it's difficult to represent

00:11:52   the plaid and the overlap in the previous one, it waters down their brand,

00:11:57   doesn't make them look as strong.

00:11:59   - Yeah, that's a good point.

00:12:01   That's a good point.

00:12:02   I was thinking that you meant it just that

00:12:04   they needed a more serious logo.

00:12:06   Like say for example, a company picked an icon

00:12:11   that was a hand-drawn sketch of a cow's head.

00:12:14   And then you became like an enterprise

00:12:17   task management system.

00:12:18   You'd want to change that logo, I could understand that.

00:12:20   - You would think so, wouldn't you?

00:12:22   But some just refuse to do that.

00:12:25   - Yeah, so I'm like keeping a hand-drawn picture

00:12:28   of a cow for 10 years. - I wouldn't mind

00:12:29   to see if 15,000 were blog posts

00:12:31   and remember the milk about them changing their icon.

00:12:34   I just want them to change it, right?

00:12:36   I don't use the app,

00:12:37   but I still want them to change the icon.

00:12:39   - That's an interesting point you make, though,

00:12:41   and that highlights what I thought

00:12:43   was the less big deal part of the article

00:12:45   about the consistency and representation.

00:12:47   So that's interesting.

00:12:49   - And I'll say, I don't have a problem with this, right?

00:12:52   Like the idea of them, I think,

00:12:53   kind of feeling like they maybe need to grow up a little bit.

00:12:56   Like, I'm not saying this of like any

00:12:59   derision in my voice, right?

00:13:00   Like I understand, but I just think

00:13:04   that that's what's going on.

00:13:06   - And to me, it just, it strikes me as a little sad

00:13:08   just because I feel like it was pretty universally

00:13:11   agreed upon that Slack had really great branding.

00:13:13   Everybody felt like, oh, it's really strong.

00:13:16   - That was all when we all felt

00:13:17   very differently about Slack, right?

00:13:19   Like that, I think it mattered more when Slack

00:13:21   was this super fun hangout place,

00:13:23   but now it's everybody's workplace.

00:13:24   So I think that that brand association

00:13:28   doesn't feel the same to me anymore anyway.

00:13:30   - Yeah, well, that's why I also think it's a funny time

00:13:33   to do the change because I will also agree

00:13:35   that the new icon matches how I feel about Slack

00:13:39   much better. - Yes, it does.

00:13:39   - Right, which is like-- - It's like,

00:13:40   oh, there's the business.

00:13:42   Business happens in the four colors, I know that.

00:13:45   - Yeah, that's the business app.

00:13:47   That's what it is now.

00:13:48   - Where do we go for the fun stuff?

00:13:50   Where does that happen now?

00:13:51   Is there a replacement?

00:13:52   What's the Slack replacement?

00:13:53   - I have no Slack replacement.

00:13:58   Slack eats all.

00:13:59   - That is pitched every day to somebody, you know?

00:14:02   We're the new Slack, we're the replacement for Slack.

00:14:06   - Maybe email would be the replacement for Slack.

00:14:08   And it all comes full circle.

00:14:10   Chat clients and email are just like a rubber

00:14:14   is eating its own tail forever.

00:14:16   - All roads lead to email.

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00:17:05   So one month has been completed in 2019.

00:17:09   So, we have started our years with our yearly themes in mind. How has Year of Order 2, which

00:17:17   is how I'm thinking of it, how has that begun for you?

00:17:19   I don't like Year of Order 2 so much. Year of More Order?

00:17:25   Year of Reorder. Ah yes, personally I prefer Year of Order 2,

00:17:30   but sure, Year of Reorder also works. You can do whatever works for you, Myke.

00:17:33   I can call it whatever I want, it doesn't matter, but sure. How is the Year of Reorder?

00:17:39   I mean, well, maybe a product of the year of reorder is there is a new video.

00:17:45   Yes. Well, this is a funny thing.

00:17:48   I don't know if this has happened before, but we are recording this before the video has gone up.

00:17:53   Like, I feel like this has maybe happened maybe once.

00:17:57   I don't know. It feels strange.

00:17:59   It has happened, I think, at some point in our many year, multi-year history of this show,

00:18:05   but it's very rare. Because you know, you don't like to share things in advance in

00:18:11   case it all breaks and falls down and changes, which I totally understand.

00:18:15   But yeah, I think it's very reasonable. It's very reasonable to not do that. But

00:18:20   yes, at the time of recording, the video that is currently being animated will be up in

00:18:27   two days.

00:18:28   Oh, we have done this before because I'm going through the same emotions that I went

00:18:33   through last time, which is what you're doing right now. The video that we are talking about,

00:18:40   your airplane boarding video, everybody that's listening to this can know that it exists

00:18:45   or knows that it exists, but you're still talking in the abstract about it.

00:18:49   Well, no, yeah, okay, no, I have...

00:18:52   Right, you did this last time. I don't remember when it was that we did this, but I remember

00:18:56   going through it. You're talking in the abstract about this video as if you're trying to be

00:19:00   secretive about it, but it already exists to the whole world by the time they're hearing

00:19:05   this.

00:19:06   Yes, I'm sorry listeners, this is very mentally and emotionally confusing.

00:19:09   No, it's very uncomfortable for you.

00:19:11   It really is. And like, so I made a video, it's about boarding an airplane. If you're

00:19:17   listening to this podcast, you've probably already seen it, I'm guessing.

00:19:20   And if you haven't, there's a link in the show notes for you to go and watch it.

00:19:23   Yeah, although like I'm going to make a wild prediction that like the Venn diagram of Cortex

00:19:28   listeners and YouTube viewers, like probably people have seen it, but thank you for the

00:19:31   link Myke, I appreciate the Google juice.

00:19:33   You'd be surprised sometimes, you know, like I've heard this, this has definitely come

00:19:37   up in the past where like there is like a weird order of things, like some people are

00:19:41   just more interested in Cortex than the YouTube channel, and I'm sorry to have to tell you

00:19:44   that and there will definitely be people in the Reddit that confirm that, which I always

00:19:48   find just super interesting. You never really know the funnel of what people care about.

00:19:53   I also know that this is where on the Reddit we'll be hearing from the people who only

00:19:57   know us from this podcast and know nothing of either of our other works, which is also

00:20:01   always very strange.

00:20:02   Greg makes YouTube videos? I thought he was a podcaster!

00:20:04   Yeah, yeah. I know you like that joke Myke.

00:20:09   What does Wikipedia say? Wikipedia, let's see, I like to check in.

00:20:12   Don't stir this up again. Where is it? Oh, I think it might have switched

00:20:16   around. Yep, you've got educational YouTuber and podcaster, so they've decided upon it

00:20:22   right now. You're good right now.

00:20:24   OK, I guess my federal land must have put me back in educational YouTuber status.

00:20:30   So the video is about boarding an airplane, but it's so weird to even talk about it knowing

00:20:38   that people will hear this, because there's a few things.

00:20:40   There's like one, there's always the demon in the back of my mind, which is saying like,

00:20:43   "Hey, don't jinx it by talking about it ahead of time.

00:20:46   There's always potential for last minute disaster."

00:20:51   And then there's the other weird thing about, I have no idea how it has been received.

00:20:57   - Right, but you wouldn't know anyway.

00:20:59   - Yeah, but I would at least know the view counts, so it's a little strange.

00:21:04   But yeah, this was this video, which you have seen also, I sent it to you so that you could

00:21:09   take a look at it.

00:21:10   And yeah, this was very much like the first video produced entirely under the year of

00:21:18   order. It's actually produced under incredibly, incredibly rushed and quick circumstances.

00:21:26   So that's also why I'm just a little bit nervous about it. But yeah, basically the Year of Order

00:21:32   began as a great year will with a great occasion where I went off to an undisclosed location in

00:21:42   in Finoscandia and because of advertiser deadlines, I had basically three weeks from start to

00:21:53   finish to create a script and create a video.

00:21:57   You didn't even have a script.

00:21:59   Okay, look, so there was originally a script for a different thing because this deadline

00:22:04   was set up like six months ago, but the thing that I was working on originally for January

00:22:09   turned out to not be like, "This is not gonna work."

00:22:12   But basically, like, locking myself away in an ice palace

00:22:16   with nothing else to do in the world

00:22:19   except to write a script under,

00:22:22   like, it has to happen in three weeks period of time.

00:22:25   And that's extraordinarily draining to do.

00:22:31   But I was really happy because,

00:22:33   like, I was really keeping the year of reorder in mind.

00:22:36   And there's something great about dramatically narrowing

00:22:41   focus and then also trying to be like,

00:22:46   how do I want to do this?

00:22:47   It's like, well, I want to try to stay healthy

00:22:50   while I'm doing this.

00:22:51   I want to try to maintain a regular schedule

00:22:52   while I'm doing this.

00:22:53   I just have like an extraordinarily limited set

00:22:56   of activities for the next three weeks.

00:22:58   It's like, I can go to the gym.

00:23:01   I can take a brief walk outside before I freeze to death.

00:23:04   I can read about this topic.

00:23:06   I can write about this topic and those are basically it.

00:23:11   Like if I'm not doing one of those things, I should probably be headed back to them.

00:23:15   So how long was the period of time that you had to write the script?

00:23:18   I ended up with three weeks where I was basically isolated from the whole world and just worked

00:23:24   on this.

00:23:25   Right, but during that three week period, was there any other work happening on the

00:23:28   video?

00:23:29   Was it being animated at the same time?

00:23:30   No, there was nothing.

00:23:33   was just like I had to because here's the thing if I don't have enough of a

00:23:37   video to even know like what is the idea for what we're gonna animate is this

00:23:40   even the thing like I don't want to just waste the animators time with like here

00:23:45   I just just do a bunch of stuff that might be vaguely related to this topic

00:23:48   like it's not useful in this situation because at a deadline didn't you have to

00:23:53   do it anyway like no matter how no matter what happened were you not kind

00:23:58   of bound well you know you can always fail to meet a deadline like that's very

00:24:02   make sure that you can, I guess.

00:24:05   - You know, just because there's a deadline,

00:24:07   it doesn't mean that you meet it, right?

00:24:09   But, you know, some deadlines are much more important

00:24:11   to meet than others.

00:24:12   So the three weeks was me trying to calculate

00:24:15   how much time does the animator also need

00:24:17   in order for us to get this out when it has to be out.

00:24:20   So I figured like, when I emerged from seclusion

00:24:23   at the end of the three weeks,

00:24:24   I had to walk right into my recording studio here at home,

00:24:28   record it, and be able to hand it off

00:24:31   in order to get it done in time.

00:24:32   So the way that that process works then is once you have the script, you record a rough

00:24:37   version of the audio and send it and that's when they start animating based on what they

00:24:41   hear and what, you know, like to fit that, right?

00:24:43   Like that's kind of how that works.

00:24:45   The main thing is getting an audio track that is almost entirely locked down.

00:24:49   Like, here's what I'm going to say, the only thing that might possibly happen is a last

00:24:53   minute cut to one of these lines if we realize like it's not necessary.

00:24:57   So you're in theory recording the final audio?

00:25:00   Yeah, I don't ever record like a rough audio.

00:25:03   Huh, okay.

00:25:04   I've never done that.

00:25:05   It's if I am going to have the final audio, or I'm not.

00:25:08   I guess because the timing is so important, right?

00:25:11   Yeah, this is also like a workflow process for me where I'm very rarely happy with the

00:25:18   audio that I record for a video.

00:25:22   Because there's there's too much of like, I have read this out loud a million times.

00:25:29   So in my head, I have an idea of what the perfect way

00:25:32   to say this thing is, but it's surprisingly hard to do

00:25:35   when you're actually recording something.

00:25:37   And I think there's a little bit of the effect

00:25:40   where it's like you have the idea of the perfect version

00:25:42   in your head, but you can't express it

00:25:47   with your physical mouth made of meat.

00:25:48   - Have you ever considered acting classes?

00:25:52   - I haven't considered acting classes,

00:25:55   But I have seriously thought about going to a vocal coach or something like that.

00:26:01   I wouldn't want to go to an improv class because then your family disowns you and it's humiliating.

00:26:09   I don't think that that is necessarily how that goes, but that's fine.

00:26:14   But I have genuinely seriously thought, like I wonder if there is a vocal coach in the UK I could talk to.

00:26:22   I think it would be beneficial, right? Because you have in your mind a way you want to say

00:26:26   it, but you can't produce it. And what that requires is like the ability for you to be

00:26:32   able to express a wider range of emotions more easily, right? I guess that's kind of

00:26:38   what it boils down to. Like you have a specific way you want to deliver something, but you

00:26:42   can't get it out that way because maybe you just don't have the tools, right?

00:26:47   Yeah. Or like I wouldn't say it's, I wouldn't say it's the emotion. Like my videos aren't

00:26:51   exactly filled with emotional narration.

00:26:53   - Well, but it is all emotions though, right?

00:26:55   Like the delivery, like you sound happy,

00:26:57   you sound scary, right?

00:26:58   Like, you know, it's like that kind of range.

00:27:00   - I think of it as a rhythm.

00:27:02   Like I'm going for a certain kind of rhythm

00:27:04   and that rhythm has like up and down.

00:27:07   - I'm gonna keep calling it emotion

00:27:09   because I think that that perfectly encapsulates it

00:27:11   but I know that you hate that.

00:27:13   So I'm just gonna keep calling it emotions for now.

00:27:16   - You go right ahead.

00:27:17   (laughing)

00:27:19   You just gotta learn to express your emotions better.

00:27:21   That's all it is.

00:27:22   You'll be fine. - Thank you, Myke.

00:27:23   - It's all you have to do.

00:27:24   You'll be fine.

00:27:26   - Perfect.

00:27:26   The thing about the vocal coach is interesting though,

00:27:28   because it's been vaguely on my to-do list for,

00:27:32   I don't know, about six years,

00:27:34   and I've never really gotten around to it.

00:27:35   - I have a similar thing,

00:27:36   which is that I wanted to speak to somebody

00:27:39   who can help me train my voice for longevity.

00:27:44   - Mm.

00:27:46   - Right?

00:27:49   what amount of damage am I doing to myself with my job?

00:27:54   I can't imagine that people are supposed to talk as much as I talk for so long.

00:28:00   Yeah.

00:28:01   Right. Like I would say like,

00:28:03   and I know this might sound weird to people that are listening to this,

00:28:05   but just think to yourself,

00:28:07   how often in your day are you locked into 90 minute conversations,

00:28:12   just like consistent conversations for 90 minutes, right?

00:28:16   Like sometimes I'm doing that two or three times a day.

00:28:19   I'm having these two person conversations for like a 90 minute, two hour stretch.

00:28:25   I don't know if people are supposed to do that.

00:28:29   Right. Like if you are supposed to talk that much.

00:28:32   So I've often thought to myself like,

00:28:34   maybe there's something I should do for my vocal cords.

00:28:38   But again, this is like a thing.

00:28:40   It's just been in the back of my head.

00:28:41   Every time I mention it, I hear from very helpful people who have great advice.

00:28:45   but I just never do anything about it.

00:28:47   Yeah, for sure.

00:28:50   And this is the thing about when you make your living with your voice partly,

00:28:55   like for sure, you're damaging your voice in some way by doing that.

00:28:58   Yeah, because I know that me and everyone that I work with,

00:29:01   if we go to like somewhere that's loud, we're ruined the next day.

00:29:05   Let's say like two days for our voices to improve.

00:29:07   And I know that that wasn't the case when I was younger.

00:29:10   And I know that when I go somewhere with like friends that don't do what we do,

00:29:13   this isn't so much of a problem for them.

00:29:16   But every time we go to a conference

00:29:18   and we go to some loud area, everyone's ruined the next day.

00:29:22   They can't speak.

00:29:23   - I actually really love this,

00:29:25   because it means that now in my life,

00:29:26   I have an excuse to do the thing

00:29:28   that I just wanna do anyway,

00:29:29   which is when people go to a really loud environment,

00:29:33   I make the mental calculation,

00:29:35   even if these are people I wanna hang out with,

00:29:37   it's just not worth it.

00:29:37   It's just not worth it to end up screaming

00:29:40   or even talking in an uncomfortably loud way

00:29:44   for a couple of hours.

00:29:45   So I've definitely been able to be like,

00:29:48   "Okay, well, you guys have fun at dinner.

00:29:50   I'm just going home.

00:29:51   Like, I'm not gonna be here for this thing."

00:29:53   - Well, what you do is you just say,

00:29:54   "I need to protect my voice."

00:29:56   And you hold your throat at the same time.

00:29:57   And then people are like, "I need to protect my voice."

00:30:00   Very important.

00:30:01   And then you like-

00:30:02   - That's how people think well of you

00:30:03   when you do that kind of thing.

00:30:05   - Well, I'll just say that it kind of doesn't matter

00:30:07   if you're bailing, people are always gonna have

00:30:09   the same impression of you

00:30:09   no matter how you present it to people probably. You're still bailing.

00:30:12   I wanted to go back to something. I wanted to go back to this idea of three weeks.

00:30:16   Three weeks for the script. I'm kind of trying to get my head around if that is not a lot of time or a lot of time.

00:30:23   I don't know.

00:30:25   How are you feeling about this, Myke?

00:30:27   That's just what I mean. I don't know. Is three weeks of working on a script in general, is that a lot of time or is it not a lot of time?

00:30:36   That's why I can't wrap my head around.

00:30:38   I'm not trying to criticize you here.

00:30:40   I'm just wondering.

00:30:42   I know that you take

00:30:44   a very long time to write a lot of

00:30:46   stuff, but sometimes, really

00:30:48   good reason of, "I want to make sure I have

00:30:50   this as correct as

00:30:52   I can possibly make it," and that is a very

00:30:54   arduous task and you're waiting

00:30:56   on professionals to get back to you

00:30:58   and stuff like that. But just as an

00:31:00   idea of something that I assume

00:31:02   a lot of the

00:31:04   the research is pretty accessible for a subject like this one.

00:31:08   So I can't imagine that you were specifically waiting on an airplane boarding expert to

00:31:14   confirm a script for you, which I know is a thing that you sometimes will do.

00:31:18   So I just wonder, is three weeks of writing, I just don't know if that is too much or if

00:31:25   it's just about right for a 10 minute YouTube video.

00:31:28   I don't know.

00:31:29   I don't know the answer to that.

00:31:30   And I just wonder.

00:31:31   I don't know, I think with any kind of creative thing,

00:31:33   it depends on what you're trying to do.

00:31:35   And if I'm talking about the behind the scenes

00:31:38   of how does this video come to pass?

00:31:41   For a normal video,

00:31:43   a great example is the Statue of Liberty video.

00:31:45   That kind of project is going to be six weeks

00:31:50   at a minimum to do,

00:31:51   which sounds like a crazy amount of time.

00:31:53   - And there's just writing, you mean, six weeks of writing?

00:31:56   - Yeah, six weeks of writing combined with research.

00:32:01   Some people do this, I've tried to do this

00:32:04   and it doesn't work as great,

00:32:05   but some people try to separate those two phases

00:32:08   where they have to say like, "I am done researching now

00:32:10   "and now I'm going to synthesize and write."

00:32:13   That doesn't work for me.

00:32:14   - I can see what, I don't think that would work for me

00:32:16   either 'cause I don't know if I would know

00:32:18   what I wanted to say.

00:32:20   And then I would start going down a train,

00:32:22   it's like, "Oh, well I need to look into this now."

00:32:24   - Actually, the way this is a good comparison

00:32:26   to finish off the previous thought

00:32:27   about talking about recording the vocals,

00:32:29   I am that way with the vocals,

00:32:32   because I have to tell myself,

00:32:34   I have gone into the booth, I've recorded several takes,

00:32:37   I've edited together the best version of these takes,

00:32:40   and now it's done.

00:32:41   Like, I cannot think about that as potentially ongoing,

00:32:45   oh, let me rerecord a take,

00:32:46   let me do it a little bit better.

00:32:49   That I have to wall off in the way

00:32:50   that some people wall off their research.

00:32:52   But for me, the research is very interweaved

00:32:54   with the actual writing.

00:32:55   Here's the thing, so the airplane video,

00:32:57   Why is that able to happen in three weeks for me

00:33:01   versus six weeks for me?

00:33:03   It's because when I went off to my isolated ice fortress

00:33:07   to go work, I really knew that the fastest

00:33:12   I have ever been able to write a script is about two weeks.

00:33:17   And that is everything has to be perfect.

00:33:22   The topic has to be simple and it has to be self-contained.

00:33:27   There has to be no possibility for ambiguity

00:33:32   in the source material.

00:33:34   There has to be no way that it can tangent off

00:33:36   into other areas.

00:33:37   And so if you think about like a video

00:33:39   about how do you board an airplane, it is a known system.

00:33:43   It is very constrained.

00:33:44   - You set yourself up for success with what you picked.

00:33:47   Right?

00:33:48   - Well, so the reason I had three weeks

00:33:50   is because I knew I have at most one week to find the topic.

00:33:56   - Oh. - Right, I found the topic

00:33:59   in four days. - Okay.

00:34:01   - So I spent four days looking for something

00:34:05   that could work.

00:34:07   And so this is where, when people are like,

00:34:09   why does he use Evernote?

00:34:10   It's like, well, I've got 100,000 Evernote notes

00:34:14   to work through, right?

00:34:15   Like there's just tons of stuff.

00:34:17   - So did you find the topic in your Evernote database?

00:34:19   - Yeah, this was 100% pulled from Evernote.

00:34:22   - So at some point, you saw this somewhere

00:34:25   and you were like, I can make a video about that.

00:34:28   Is that like a typical thing for you?

00:34:29   Then you just put it in Evernote.

00:34:31   - Yeah, in Evernote, I have like,

00:34:36   not folders because of their limit, but tags.

00:34:37   I have an enormous number of tags

00:34:39   for anything that might ever be a video topic

00:34:42   or something that might relate to a video topic.

00:34:45   And this is one of those moments where it's like,

00:34:47   okay, I'm gonna try to dig.

00:34:48   And I'm not digging for like,

00:34:53   what video do I want to work on next?

00:34:55   I'm digging with a very particular target.

00:34:58   Like I know exactly the sort of thing that I'm looking for.

00:35:02   And this airplane video is a great example

00:35:05   because this, like I already had all of this stuff

00:35:09   about airplanes and boarding.

00:35:11   Like it was already all there in Evernote.

00:35:13   But it was there as a tangent to another bigger video.

00:35:18   And when I was looking through the notes,

00:35:23   in the way that's impossible to know,

00:35:24   like you just feel that it's right.

00:35:26   But I was looking through things and it's like, that's it.

00:35:28   Like I'm gonna not make this bigger video

00:35:31   that this was originally supposed to be

00:35:33   a little side note for.

00:35:34   This thing that could have been a side note in another video

00:35:38   will work as a full video on its own.

00:35:41   And then it's like, great.

00:35:42   Found it after four days.

00:35:44   And then it's like, turn the research material

00:35:47   that you already have into a script that you can record.

00:35:51   And then that's just then down to my rhythm writing.

00:35:55   And from talking to other people who write,

00:35:58   I think I just naturally have a very slow rhythm.

00:36:02   The comparison that I think is,

00:36:04   well, I think is interesting,

00:36:05   but maybe not so much for the listeners,

00:36:07   but for the behind the scenes stuff,

00:36:09   like ultimately what I want to have is a video

00:36:14   that's a nice self-contained little unit

00:36:20   and that feels like it flows in an obvious way

00:36:23   from start to finish.

00:36:25   And in some way, the viewer should perceive the video

00:36:29   as a simple thing.

00:36:31   Like in some ways, the viewer should watch it

00:36:33   and be like, "Oh, that seems really straightforward."

00:36:36   But it's not so straightforward

00:36:39   when you have a pile of notes

00:36:40   and you're trying to think about like,

00:36:41   "What is the way to talk about this?"

00:36:43   And that's why I mentally compare this

00:36:45   to the Statue of Liberty video,

00:36:47   where hopefully someone watches that and they think,

00:36:51   what a straightforward, simple little story.

00:36:56   But the reason that's a six-week video

00:36:58   is because that is a topic that intrinsically

00:37:01   has the potential to tangent off in a million directions.

00:37:05   It also has a thing that I always hate,

00:37:07   which is the uncertainty of history, right?

00:37:12   A thing that I shouldn't do, but I did do in that video,

00:37:14   is sometimes when a thing is really hard to find,

00:37:16   you want to put it in a video just because.

00:37:18   As like going through the goddamn charters

00:37:21   for New York and New Jersey's being set up in the 1600s

00:37:26   and like digging up the original documents

00:37:28   for that kind of stuff is an enormous pain in the butt.

00:37:31   And of course the viewer doesn't really care,

00:37:33   but like I had to put that in the Statue of Liberty video

00:37:36   'cause like this cost me, right?

00:37:37   Like this cost me a lot.

00:37:39   To feel like I was satisfied with what the answer is,

00:37:45   Like in some ways, the Statue of Liberty video is more satisfying,

00:37:48   because I feel like I put together a thing,

00:37:51   and it had the potential to explode all over the place,

00:37:55   but I feel like I narrowed it down to like a straightforward

00:37:59   story that connects from start to finish in a logical way.

00:38:04   And that's a really difficult task, and that's like a six-week task.

00:38:07   And then producing a video under a deadline like this,

00:38:12   it's much more constrained.

00:38:14   there's far fewer of that and it allows me much more to focus on just going through as

00:38:22   many iterations of the script as I possibly can. What do I think is the best way to say

00:38:26   this sentence? You know, which section should follow after this other section? So I don't

00:38:31   know, like that's the longest answer in the world. Who is three weeks a long time or is

00:38:35   it not a long time?

00:38:36   I mean, we have half of the answer, which is it's a short time for you. I mean, how

00:38:40   it actually scales to other people that do similar things. We don't know. I think I know

00:38:45   the answer and I think the answer is that three weeks is a long time. But I think it's because you

00:38:51   I don't really know it. I don't really have a delicate way to say this but like maybe you

00:38:57   just spend more time trying to make sure that things are correct than other people

00:39:00   and that your videos are probably as good as they are because of that but then

00:39:09   that also allows you the luxury. So it's like a virtuous cycle type thing. You are the type of

00:39:15   person who wants things to be correct. So when they're correct and well thought out and thoroughly

00:39:20   kind of gone through and checked on, it actually makes a really good video.

00:39:25   So your videos are successful, which then allows you, it gives you the luxury to spend the time,

00:39:31   right? And there might be other people who have to make things more frequently,

00:39:35   who can't go to the level of painstaking detail that you do because they can't go six months

00:39:42   without a video. They just can't do that. You know what, you see what I'm trying to get at?

00:39:45   You maybe take longer than other people because you can, and that's because of your style.

00:39:53   Your style breeds for success because it's so well considered.

00:39:57   - Yeah, I don't know. Part of what I was thinking about for the year of

00:40:02   reorder like while I was working on this video. This is very consciously thinking about the way I make things and

00:40:08   we talked about it a little bit before that I was I was doing the Statue of Liberty and the federal land video in a

00:40:14   little bit of a different way and

00:40:16   This video as well in a little bit of a different way and and

00:40:20   I feel like I am trying to take advantage of the fact that I can spend a bunch of time on

00:40:29   on these videos

00:40:31   Like I think I'm lucky in that sense to have an audience that keeps coming back and is

00:40:36   interested in things even if I've been away for a while.

00:40:38   It's a luxury that you can take advantage of, right?

00:40:41   Yeah, it is 100% a luxury.

00:40:44   I've made in these last three videos a real effort to increase the amount of overlap of

00:40:51   research and writing time at the same time, and I feel like that has been really advantageous

00:40:59   and has made for a more like satisfying working experience.

00:41:03   I don't know how the airline video is going to end up being received, but the year of

00:41:09   reorder at least in terms of videos, I feel like unofficially starts with the Statue of

00:41:15   Liberty video.

00:41:16   And now I've ended up with three videos where I'm really pleased with the way they came

00:41:21   out and that's great.

00:41:25   Like I can always look at the videos and think, oh, I should have done this differently or

00:41:28   I can hear where I didn't hit the vocal mark

00:41:31   that I wanted to hit or all that kind of stuff.

00:41:33   But the three videos, including the airplane one

00:41:36   that's out now, I am personally very pleased

00:41:39   with the way all of them came out.

00:41:42   I'm pleased that the first two,

00:41:43   I was able to spend all of the time

00:41:45   and try to dig through a bunch of stuff

00:41:49   that I know it doesn't really matter to the viewer,

00:41:51   but I think makes the videos better.

00:41:53   Actually, I have a good comparison for this.

00:41:56   It's a bit like when I was a physics teacher.

00:41:59   I think it matters to have a teacher

00:42:01   who doesn't just know the material that is being taught,

00:42:05   but knows things that are around the edges

00:42:07   of what's being taught.

00:42:09   Like having done a university degree in physics

00:42:12   makes me a better secondary school physics teacher.

00:42:16   And I think there's something

00:42:16   about the video production process that's the same way,

00:42:19   that like for a six-week period,

00:42:21   I know a ridiculous amount of information

00:42:23   about the Statue of Liberty,

00:42:25   even if I only end up ever talking about a small percentage of it.

00:42:29   Those two videos were lots of work in the regular kind of six week cycle, and then I'm

00:42:34   pretty pleased with this video that was produced under just about as compressed a cycle as

00:42:38   it could be.

00:42:39   And that's very different, but I'm also pretty pleased with the way this one came

00:42:44   out.

00:42:45   So I feel like Year of Order is going pretty well so far for the videos.

00:42:49   Is there anything from this experience though that you will take forward?

00:42:53   Do you mean the deadline experience?

00:42:56   - Yeah.

00:42:58   - I mean, what I'll take forward from it

00:42:59   is the thing that has always been the case,

00:43:02   which is I do not like working under deadline.

00:43:05   I don't think it's good.

00:43:07   I know that lots of people find that very productive,

00:43:11   but I find that mostly like a costly thing

00:43:15   that it makes sense to do sometimes,

00:43:17   but it's not a way that I wanna work regularly

00:43:20   if I don't have to.

00:43:22   And also, it's not a thing that I'd want to do regularly

00:43:27   because there are only so many of those kinds of gems

00:43:31   in my notes, of things that I can go through and find

00:43:34   and be like, this is a perfectly self-contained little topic.

00:43:37   - Right, like in an ideal world,

00:43:38   you would only ever work for three weeks on a script.

00:43:41   Right, this is, it's not like that you want to spend

00:43:44   nine, 10, 12, 17, 20 weeks on something,

00:43:48   but sometimes you just have to.

00:43:50   - Yeah, if people are thinking there's gonna be videos

00:43:54   every three weeks, it's never gonna happen.

00:43:57   And again, the three weeks is just

00:43:59   the script production process.

00:44:01   So no, but I feel like in part of the year of reorder,

00:44:06   I've settled something in my mind

00:44:09   about the working process of creating these videos,

00:44:12   which has now resulted in three in a row

00:44:15   that I'm pretty happy with.

00:44:17   Whereas over the past two years,

00:44:19   there's a number of videos I can point to,

00:44:21   like the video about dying,

00:44:22   where it's like, I'm not happy with this video.

00:44:24   So far, so good in the Year of Reorder.

00:44:26   - I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but--

00:44:28   - Go ahead.

00:44:29   - The Year of Reorder 2 may result in more videos

00:44:33   than Year of Reorder 1.

00:44:35   - Well, Year of Reorder 2 would be next year, Myke.

00:44:37   - Oh, sorry, the Year of Order 2.

00:44:39   The Year of Order 2 will result in more videos

00:44:42   than the original Year of Order did.

00:44:45   - Look, I'm not making any promises,

00:44:47   But we can also say that it wouldn't take a lot to outstrip last year.

00:44:52   Well, sure.

00:44:53   But maybe you will be a little bit closer to previous years than last year was.

00:44:59   I'll put it this way.

00:45:02   I'm really liking having Year of Reorder in my mind, and I'm very actively trying

00:45:06   to keep it in my mind on a bunch of different fronts with a bunch of different things.

00:45:10   It's like in the New Year episode where I was trying to express this idea of feeling

00:45:14   like a new person who is in this new situation.

00:45:16   And one of the things that I'm really focusing on is,

00:45:20   it's very hard to describe, again,

00:45:23   I'm not a person who likes work,

00:45:26   but producing the videos that I am happy about

00:45:32   is the most satisfying type of work that I do.

00:45:37   And I'm aware that if it goes for a while

00:45:40   where I haven't produced a video that I'm happy with,

00:45:42   That's what makes me the most unsatisfied.

00:45:45   Like I'm sort of grumbly about that.

00:45:48   So part of the year of reorder is trying to focus on

00:45:51   the kinds of work that bring me more satisfaction

00:45:55   as opposed to the kinds of work

00:45:57   that bring me less satisfaction.

00:45:59   And the videos is highly satisfying work

00:46:03   when I feel like it's pulled off well at the end.

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00:47:28   How about you, Myke?

00:47:30   This is Groundhog's Day.

00:47:32   It's been a whole month since the start of the year.

00:47:35   How's your year going so far?

00:47:36   How's your theme keeping up?

00:47:37   - So the themes going fine.

00:47:41   I've already done a couple of things

00:47:43   to aid in the stabilization and this is in--

00:47:47   - I was gonna say, just remind the people

00:47:48   it's year of stability too.

00:47:49   - No, year of stability and year of diversification.

00:47:52   They are the two themes for this year.

00:47:55   But although I actually do believe that diversification

00:47:58   leads into stability and vice versa.

00:48:01   It's kind of one thing, but there's a couple of different

00:48:03   options. - Right, that's why it's

00:48:04   the Year of Stability 2, because there's two things

00:48:06   that are the same thing in this year.

00:48:07   - Oh, it's a nice try.

00:48:08   - It's a beautiful ying and yang for your theme, Myke.

00:48:11   Diversity and stability. - Oh.

00:48:13   (laughing)

00:48:15   And so, you know, I've done a couple of things to,

00:48:19   I think I should've done it a while ago.

00:48:21   I've changed from scheduling around some of the other shows

00:48:23   that I do to make my overall commitment to some stuff

00:48:25   a little bit less.

00:48:26   I've also handed over some editing tasks

00:48:28   to somebody that we work with.

00:48:30   - Oh good.

00:48:31   - Because there's just a couple of shows

00:48:33   that don't necessarily require a heavy edit,

00:48:37   so and they could be done by another

00:48:39   very talented individual, so we're doing that, right?

00:48:41   So I have someone I can trust, his name's Jim

00:48:45   and he's brilliant, and so Jim's now working

00:48:48   on a couple of different shows for me.

00:48:50   And this is a couple of reasons.

00:48:51   One, for time, two, for longevity in my hands.

00:48:57   which is turning into more of a struggle over time.

00:49:00   Things are mostly under control right now,

00:49:04   but I'm just realizing that the RSI that I've had,

00:49:09   they weren't standalone instances

00:49:12   caused by specific things.

00:49:13   This is just a part of my life now,

00:49:15   and so I just need to work with that.

00:49:18   So I'm just making some considerations

00:49:20   to try and make some of that stuff easier on me.

00:49:23   I'm not sad about this.

00:49:24   It just is what it is, and I'm dealing with it, right?

00:49:26   like, it's just part of who I am.

00:49:28   - Yeah, it's like, look, every part of your body

00:49:30   is like an engine that's rated for a certain number

00:49:33   of revolutions before it starts to fall apart.

00:49:36   Your vocal cords, your wrists, your shoulders,

00:49:39   and it just so happens that your wrists and shoulders

00:49:41   have lower ratings, but we're all falling apart every day,

00:49:46   little bit by little bit.

00:49:48   - So, you know, it's what that is, thank you.

00:49:51   So that's kind of something that I'm doing.

00:49:53   Another thing is I'm reconsidering some of my journaling.

00:49:58   So I spoke about this in the past,

00:50:00   still doing my journals every day.

00:50:02   And there was one thing that I picked up from the book

00:50:05   that we read, Triggers, which was daily questions.

00:50:07   So having a list of things that you ask yourself every day.

00:50:10   And it was, I think like mostly an incredibly complex thing.

00:50:13   I adapted some to make it work a bit easier for me.

00:50:17   And I just had seven questions

00:50:19   that I asked myself every day.

00:50:20   and I gave myself a score from one to five for what I wanted to do there.

00:50:25   Now I'm thinking about kind of reframing and personally rebranding what this is.

00:50:32   So I've started to think about daily themes as opposed to daily questions.

00:50:39   And instead of having a question that I ask myself, I just have a word.

00:50:45   And am I doing something that led us up to that word, that daily theme?

00:50:54   And it still leads into the same idea for me of like, if I do something in these

00:51:01   seven areas every day, no matter how I feel, no matter what is happening, I am

00:51:08   doing things that ladder towards making my year successful and my business

00:51:13   successful and my relationships successful.

00:51:16   Do you have a specific example of what a daily theme is?

00:51:18   Well, I can read you all seven of my daily questions.

00:51:21   They're the same as they were before.

00:51:22   I didn't want to pry and ask for all of them, but if you're,

00:51:25   if you're willing to go through all of them, I'd be very happy to hear them.

00:51:28   See, cause they started as questions and then they kind of changed to prompts

00:51:31   anyway. So I'm figuring to like, kind of make that the final kind of

00:51:36   move into just making them like seven words, but be creative,

00:51:41   advance new ideas, generate revenue,

00:51:44   make colleagues feel valued, do good for Adina,

00:51:48   engage with my audience, and improve my health.

00:51:50   So I think I can turn these into seven words.

00:51:54   - Right. - Right.

00:51:55   Creativity,

00:51:56   so I'm stuck already, but like, you know.

00:52:01   (laughing)

00:52:02   - So confident and fell at the second hurdle.

00:52:04   - I can do it, I can do it, I haven't done it, right?

00:52:06   I can do it, I just need to think.

00:52:08   So like, you know, I could do that creativity,

00:52:10   I can't think of one for number two yet, but like I just have revenue, you know, just like,

00:52:15   yeah, whatever.

00:52:17   I can come up with seven words, all right, leave me alone.

00:52:19   I just haven't done it yet.

00:52:20   No, no, no, it's fine.

00:52:21   It's fine.

00:52:22   You'll have charity, industry.

00:52:23   Yeah, there's plenty of words to describe.

00:52:24   Plenty of words.

00:52:25   Like it's just, there's a whole dictionary I can pick from.

00:52:27   But so my thinking is just to just make that a little bit more simple and to actually match

00:52:33   something else that I've done.

00:52:35   So I have changed the way that I kind of score myself for these things from a system of 1

00:52:42   to 5 to 0 to 1.

00:52:45   So I was having to give myself a score every day.

00:52:51   What is a score 4 for generate revenue?

00:52:55   What does that mean?

00:52:57   What is a 5?

00:52:58   What is a 2?

00:53:00   That was pointless to me.

00:53:01   It ended up becoming a frustration.

00:53:03   Yeah, yeah, I've always hated that too.

00:53:06   Like what does that mean?

00:53:07   Like what is it to?

00:53:09   Like basically it was either zero, three or five.

00:53:11   That was all I was giving myself,

00:53:13   basically for everything every day.

00:53:15   So I had like a maximum score of 35 points for each day.

00:53:19   So I've changed it to, I say zero to one,

00:53:23   but I'm using a notebook that's a grid.

00:53:26   And I do three things.

00:53:27   I either leave the grid blank,

00:53:29   I color half of it or I color all of it.

00:53:32   and that is either 0.5 or 1.

00:53:36   So I kind of now, I will go through

00:53:38   and I will color in the grids as I should

00:53:40   for each question, and then I write down

00:53:42   the number out of seven.

00:53:43   I just add up what's there and do it out of seven.

00:53:46   And what I've noticed is I feel better about it

00:53:49   because I get closer to seven more than I got close to 35.

00:53:52   And this is not, like my whole point of this,

00:53:56   my idea for my daily themes is not to be punishing myself.

00:54:01   Like this is something that I've been exciting to realize

00:54:04   where I'm like, "Oh man, like I only got 20 today."

00:54:09   Like that's not what I'm trying to get out of this.

00:54:11   Like I'm not trying to like really stringently grade myself.

00:54:16   It's more about having a contribution

00:54:20   towards each of these things every day

00:54:22   is what I want to achieve in my day.

00:54:25   - Yeah, there's a much better way to think about it.

00:54:28   Has progress been made in this category?

00:54:31   And the idea of giving myself a four or a five

00:54:34   is like a punishment.

00:54:35   Like it's silly to me.

00:54:37   - Yeah, and it is the over precise rating system.

00:54:40   - Yeah.

00:54:41   - But people ask you to rate a thing from one to 10.

00:54:43   Well, the score is meaningless.

00:54:45   You know, it's frustrating and like I always find

00:54:50   those things frustrating as well because you just,

00:54:51   you know it's inconsistent.

00:54:53   Whereas doing the thing where you can fill in a full box

00:54:56   or a half box is much more humanly understandable.

00:54:59   I'm like, I did nothing, I did something,

00:55:02   or I had an amazing day in this category.

00:55:05   And that is what you need.

00:55:06   - I'll give you an example with revenue.

00:55:09   Revenue is a good, it's a really easy one

00:55:11   for me to give an example for.

00:55:13   So if I haven't colored it in, I didn't do anything.

00:55:16   I didn't email anybody, I didn't sign any contracts,

00:55:18   I didn't do anything.

00:55:20   If I've done something where I've contacted some people

00:55:24   or I've replied to some emails, I'm working on a deal,

00:55:27   that's like half.

00:55:28   But if I've actually made some money for my company today,

00:55:32   I'm gonna color that whole thing in.

00:55:34   And there's something else that I've noticed

00:55:36   that I've given myself some credit for,

00:55:37   which I didn't before.

00:55:39   If I'm sending invoices,

00:55:41   that is part of the revenue process.

00:55:43   Like I have to actually send the invoices, right?

00:55:45   - Right.

00:55:46   - But I wasn't grading myself in that before.

00:55:49   Like that didn't count.

00:55:50   But like, but that is where the money comes from.

00:55:52   - Invoices are the vital final hurdle.

00:55:56   But like for some reason in my previous five point rating system that didn't come into it.

00:56:00   But now I would colour my square and say, yeah, I did something to this today.

00:56:04   Like, sure, I didn't close a new deal, but I've sent the invoice.

00:56:07   Like that's important. So I feel like it's allowing me to be a little bit easier on myself,

00:56:12   which that's what I'm trying to do with all of this journaling stuff that I've been doing for the last nearly a year now.

00:56:19   It's I'm not trying to test or punish myself.

00:56:22   It's to give myself a little bit of leeway.

00:56:26   Right? Like, it's to pat myself on the back in ways that other people can't understand to do.

00:56:32   Nobody knows how my job works. No one can understand it in full. Only I can. So only I

00:56:40   am the person who can say "you did a good job today". Right? Because nobody, my job doesn't,

00:56:46   nobody else in the world has my job. Because there just aren't enough people doing it.

00:56:51   Yeah, it sounds funny, but it is completely true, especially like you when you're running

00:56:57   a company and there's people and there's all that like, you're the only person who can

00:57:03   make the measurements of have you done well on this?

00:57:08   And this isn't a mic thing. It's the same thing you do. Nobody in the world has your

00:57:11   job either, right? Like it's we have weird jobs that we created for ourselves in industries

00:57:16   that are new and there just aren't a lot of people doing them yet.

00:57:21   >> But also ultimately, like there's only one relay. And like, you know, even if more

00:57:29   podcast networks pop up, you know, you're still the only person who's in charge of relay

00:57:35   and you have to make that call about how well you've done on a particular thing. So I think

00:57:40   this sounds like a good shift in the journal for you to make it more a positive thing.

00:57:46   than a like, "Oh, I scored low" kind of thing.

00:57:50   And the daily theme is good.

00:57:52   You know, themes, they go all the way up,

00:57:54   and they go all the way down, from big to small.

00:57:57   - Yeah. - I like it.

00:57:58   Yeah, I like it.

00:57:59   It's just a nice way to reframe it,

00:58:00   and it's making me think a little bit differently again, you know?

00:58:03   And then this new scoring system, I have had days where I felt bad,

00:58:06   I just didn't feel like I had a good day,

00:58:08   but I scored pretty high.

00:58:10   So it's like, "Hmm, okay."

00:58:12   Because previously, that wasn't the case.

00:58:14   So maybe the tying with general emotional feeling and productivity is not exactly what I thought it was.

00:58:22   So it's allowing me to kind of just reframe some stuff which I think is valuable.

00:58:27   And this, my daily themes idea here is very much in its infancy.

00:58:32   So my seven questions might change.

00:58:35   I might end up with more, I might end up with less.

00:58:38   Like I'm kind of, the numbers came first and now as we're entering a new month,

00:58:43   the way that my book works, I have to write out my seven questions again onto the paper so I can

00:58:49   easily score myself. So now I'm getting ready to write those out. I'm like, "Hmm, maybe I just

00:58:53   change those to single words." And then maybe in March or in April, they increase or decrease or

00:58:59   change. I'm kind of going through a process now of my journaling is now following up with my year

00:59:05   theme change, right? That seems to what I've noticed that takes maybe a little bit longer

00:59:09   to kind of manifest itself for me.

00:59:12   So in the year of diversification included the announcement of our company Cortex Brand.

00:59:20   Everybody knows about it now.

00:59:23   And one of the big things that we did was open up our email address for people to contact

00:59:28   us to let us know the types of things they might want to see and/or, which has been very

00:59:33   interesting, for people that make things to share their ideas.

00:59:37   So again, I will say it's business@cortexbrand.com.

00:59:42   I want to hear from you if you have a product that you make and you think would fit with

00:59:46   what we're doing or you think fits with the type of people that me and Grey are.

00:59:51   Or if you are a designer, a product designer, a fashion designer, like I want to hear from

00:59:56   you.

00:59:57   Even if you don't even necessarily think you have an idea right now, I just want to hear

01:00:00   from you so I can put your name into a folder and then maybe one day we could talk.

01:00:05   I just want to hear from people because it's been fascinating so far.

01:00:08   I've opened myself up to a lot of email, which is fine.

01:00:13   I knew this was going to happen.

01:00:14   Right. But, you know, I've done a couple of things.

01:00:17   I'm using a completely separate email app, using Outlook for this,

01:00:21   which I don't use for my personal email.

01:00:23   Very businessy.

01:00:24   That's can't get any more corporate than that.

01:00:26   I think Outlook is the second best email app that I've tried.

01:00:29   Right. Like it is it was it was one I used for a long time.

01:00:32   And it's nice. It looks nice.

01:00:35   it has some cool features, it works pretty well for what I want to do.

01:00:38   It does a weird thing, which I like for this, where it kind of seems to try and like calm

01:00:44   down the friction of replying to an email.

01:00:48   So when you open an email, there's just a text box in the bottom.

01:00:51   So when you're reading it, it's just there and you just type into it like it's a message

01:00:54   thread.

01:00:55   Oh, interesting.

01:00:56   So it looks more...

01:00:57   That's a very interesting UI decision.

01:00:59   It is.

01:01:00   So it's making me more frequently replying to emails because it feels more like a chat

01:01:04   than an email. So I like it for that.

01:01:08   So I've been enjoying that.

01:01:10   And you know what?

01:01:11   It feels really good.

01:01:13   This feels like an honest to goodness side

01:01:16   project. And I am so happy with it because it is

01:01:20   not at all like anything else I do.

01:01:23   The type of people that I'm talking to, the types

01:01:27   of ideas that we're having, it is very side

01:01:31   business-y. And I like that.

01:01:32   And so I'm, I'm, this is going to be a very slow moving beast because product design and

01:01:40   product manufacturing is slow.

01:01:43   And we are talking about this now because we believe it will be interesting as this

01:01:48   continues to progress to have this to talk about on the show.

01:01:52   So kind of like from an update perspective, we have some ideas for products that

01:01:58   predated the creation of this company and we are working on those now. So over the next couple of

01:02:05   months we hope that we'll be able to share some of the behind the scenes of what it's taken to make

01:02:10   these products but we don't want to necessarily talk about them until we see a prototype for them

01:02:15   in case we change our mind. I think that's pretty fair, right? Like once we know what they are and

01:02:20   once we know we can make them we want to talk all about what it's taken to make this stuff but we

01:02:26   We don't want to talk about something in case we actually can't do it.

01:02:30   And if it turns out that we have products that fail, maybe we'll talk about those

01:02:34   too, but we want to know if it's going to fail or succeed just to be made before we

01:02:38   share it.

01:02:40   Yeah, it's...

01:02:43   It is...

01:02:45   It is astonishing how difficult and time-consuming physical manufacturing in the real world is.

01:02:54   Oh boy.

01:02:55   Is it slow?

01:02:56   Oh my gosh, it's very different.

01:02:59   - Yeah, this is a thing you may hear people on podcasts

01:03:03   talk about sometimes, but unless you get involved in it,

01:03:06   it is just mind-blowing how long things can take,

01:03:11   how complicated it can be, and the iterations

01:03:18   and physical products that you need to do

01:03:20   in order to try to get something the way that you like it.

01:03:23   This is why, like when you support a Kickstarter,

01:03:27   whatever date they say it's going to ship,

01:03:29   just add two years to that date.

01:03:32   (laughing)

01:03:33   And it's not because people are lying,

01:03:37   it's because even if you think you are being

01:03:41   the most pessimistic you can possibly be

01:03:45   about how long it is going to take,

01:03:49   you are guaranteed to have tremendous unexpected delays.

01:03:54   And it's just going to happen.

01:03:57   But yeah, the world of physical goods,

01:04:00   it's nice because you have a physical thing,

01:04:03   like an object that you can use,

01:04:07   or that you love, or that is useful.

01:04:10   But my God, the amount of effort

01:04:13   that goes into creating these things is astounding.

01:04:18   And really, my tiny dabbling in physical goods

01:04:22   really makes me stand in awe of companies like Apple,

01:04:26   where it's like, oh, they've gotta make 20 bazillion phones.

01:04:28   Right, it's like, I can't even begin to conceive

01:04:31   of how that happens, because the tiny projects

01:04:35   I've been involved in, it's like,

01:04:36   how on earth does this take so long?

01:04:38   This should be very simple, but it isn't.

01:04:41   - Yeah, I would say we are very, very lucky

01:04:44   that we have friends that do this stuff for a living already.

01:04:48   Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:49   That are helping me

01:04:51   in navigating

01:04:54   manufacture for the first time.

01:04:57   Yeah.

01:04:57   Because otherwise this would have

01:04:59   been an absolute disaster.

01:05:01   It would have been so bad.

01:05:02   But the fact that we have, you know,

01:05:06   we have a company like Cotton Bureau

01:05:08   that we work with.

01:05:09   And then, you know, I have

01:05:10   so I do you know, I have a podcast

01:05:13   with about pens with my friend Brad

01:05:14   Dowdy. I actually have a podcast

01:05:16   about product design with my friend

01:05:18   Dan and Tom who run Studio Neat, and they are really helping me understand what this

01:05:23   takes.

01:05:24   They're like very good sources for me in understanding what it requires to deal with

01:05:31   something being manufactured and how long that can take.

01:05:35   I would say our first product that we're hoping will be for sale at some point this

01:05:39   year has felt like it's two weeks away for about 12 months.

01:05:43   - Yeah, yeah, that is completely fair.

01:05:46   Yeah, yeah, it just felt like it's two weeks away

01:05:48   for 12 months, that is just about right.

01:05:50   It's like, oh, at any moment we can release it.

01:05:54   And it's like, listener, listener,

01:05:58   I just don't know how to convey with words that feeling.

01:06:03   I'm like, oh, this thing is gonna be at any moment

01:06:06   and you live with that feeling for a year.

01:06:10   It's so strange and it messes with your brain.

01:06:14   And I completely agree with you.

01:06:17   Without knowing people who are already in this world,

01:06:22   I would find physical manufacturing

01:06:25   of the stuff that we're doing just totally impossible.

01:06:27   - Yeah, I don't think we ever would have done it

01:06:29   'cause I feel like it would have just been

01:06:32   too insurmountable.

01:06:33   I never would have allowed myself to have these ideas

01:06:36   if I didn't have people that I knew I could ask questions to.

01:06:40   Like it's very difficult and it is full of pitfalls

01:06:45   and like, it's just, yeah, it's crazy.

01:06:48   But my hope would be, and my assumption would be,

01:06:53   the more we do this, the better we'll get at it.

01:06:54   And we'll understand things a lot more,

01:06:57   we'll get our processes in place

01:06:59   and we'll understand what we wanna do.

01:07:01   'Cause we have one-off ideas,

01:07:04   we have ideas that are bigger, that are longer spanning,

01:07:06   stuff like the subtlety.

01:07:09   So I'll say, I've gotten such great feedback about that.

01:07:14   Like I'm planning that we will have a line at some point

01:07:17   of products that look like that.

01:07:19   Like we have currently the original line,

01:07:22   which is available at cortexmerch.com, that--

01:07:27   - Go ahead, Mykes, go ahead.

01:07:29   We can keep talking.

01:07:31   - So that line, we have the original line,

01:07:34   which just is like the stuff that just is our regular logo,

01:07:37   and I wanna have other lines.

01:07:38   So I want to have a subtle line which has more products in it.

01:07:42   And one of the things that's been really great is people have been emailing business@cortexbrand.com

01:07:47   and telling me what they want to see.

01:07:49   So I have a good kind of barometer for the types of stuff that people might want to see

01:07:54   along those sort of lines too.

01:07:56   So I'm very excited about all of this because I feel like I have a little project again

01:08:01   and I feel like I haven't had one of those in about six years.

01:08:05   So that's nice.

01:08:06   - Yeah, and it's really interesting.

01:08:08   Again, since this is at such the beginning phase,

01:08:13   I really do encourage people to send in emails

01:08:18   because it's the start of it

01:08:22   and we don't know where it's going to go.

01:08:24   And you've shown me some of the things

01:08:26   that have come through and we've discussed it,

01:08:27   and it's like, "Oh, I never would have thought about that,

01:08:29   "but that's an interesting idea."

01:08:31   And so the direction of this thing,

01:08:35   We have an idea of where we wanna go,

01:08:38   but it's really interesting to see things

01:08:41   that other people might want to do with us

01:08:44   that we would never have considered.

01:08:45   And so that's why that email address exists there,

01:08:49   is a doorway to the novel and the unexpected

01:08:54   or the unconsidered on our part.

01:09:00   So if you have an idea, please send it in.

01:09:03   Maybe we'll work together.

01:09:05   and I will tell you, multiple people have emailed me wanting the thing that we're making

01:09:10   which is a good feeling

01:09:12   okay yeah

01:09:13   you're such a tease Myke

01:09:15   well you know this is this I don't I don't feel so bad about teasing with this because

01:09:19   we will tell people what it is once we get there

01:09:22   yeah and it's only two weeks away

01:09:23   always it's always two weeks away so don't worry about it in two weeks time there will

01:09:29   be another two weeks

01:09:30   I do really feel like it's not that far away right now

01:09:33   Yeah, I do too, but I have felt that for about a year.

01:09:36   But that feeling is a lie. You just can't trust that feeling.

01:09:40   At the moment we are about two weeks away from putting an order in, so we'll see how

01:09:45   that goes.

01:09:48   This episode of Cortex is brought to you by our friends at HelloFresh, the meal kit delivery

01:09:53   service that shop, plan, and deliver step-by-step recipes and pre-measured ingredients right

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01:10:43   is probably a good way to put it. But with HelloFresh's wonderful recipes that were easy

01:10:47   to put together and were super enticing that allowed me to make them at home. I could customize

01:10:52   things if I wanted to, like if there was something that I wasn't sure if I was going to like,

01:10:56   I could maybe put in a little bit of this or a little bit of that so I could get the flavor of it.

01:11:00   And then over time, I built my palette and my skills.

01:11:04   So I enjoy way more food now than I ever did before.

01:11:08   So I have so much more of a varied diet and I know how to cook a bunch of stuff as well.

01:11:12   HelloFresh quite literally changed my life.

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01:11:40   Our thanks to HelloFresh for their support of this show and all of Relay FM.

01:11:44   Probably the most important follow up of Cortex's history.

01:11:48   I'm still using Evernote and

01:11:52   I can't believe I'm about to say this, but I'm so happy with it.

01:11:55   It's so weird.

01:11:56   I feel like I'm betraying myself at this point, but

01:12:00   I was right. You know, when we found it, Evernote is exactly

01:12:04   what I was looking for for the Cortex brand project.

01:12:07   So that was what it was.

01:12:08   So the idea of why Evernote worked so well and why I couldn't find what I wanted

01:12:12   is it's a couple of things that I want to keep track of.

01:12:15   So ideas for our clothing lines, ideas for

01:12:21   in general, right? Like just little random things that pop up that aren't something I want to explore

01:12:26   right now but I want to save for later. For all of the different products that we want to make,

01:12:32   I can set up notebooks for all of them and then have notes within those notebooks which can either

01:12:37   be text notes that I've taken, web pages that I'm saving. Obviously what's something that Evernote

01:12:44   is very good for is mixed media within a note. Like I have one note that has links, text and

01:12:50   like a picture that I drew, right, to try and outline the way that I wanted something to look.

01:12:55   It still has its foibles and like some of Evernote's foibles I can see are like

01:13:01   decisions that they made. So like for example, when you use iOS or you use the Evernote web clipper

01:13:07   in browsers, when you want to save a URL into an Evernote note, what Evernote helpfully does

01:13:13   is tries to save the HTML of the web page. There are benefits to this because then you end up with

01:13:19   all of the content. So if the web page ever changes, you still have the content. But of

01:13:24   course, Evernote is not a web browser. So it never looks right. It's always weird and

01:13:30   wonky. So I made a shortcut for on iOS that just creates a new note wherever I want to

01:13:36   save it with the URL and a title because it's super easy to do.

01:13:43   Myke, you're blowing my goddamn mind right now. This is I'll share the show. Like you

01:13:48   You need to share the shortcut because this has been on iOS

01:13:50   one of my frustrations with them.

01:13:52   But this is, you know what,

01:13:53   you know this moment I'm having here as well?

01:13:55   This is still the boundless frontier of shortcuts

01:13:58   where it just didn't even occur to me

01:14:01   that of course I could make a shortcut

01:14:02   to just grab the URL to then put it in Evernote

01:14:04   instead of trying to do the HTML webpage.

01:14:07   Ah, this is great.

01:14:08   I feel this is--

01:14:09   - I'll give it to you.

01:14:10   - Ah, I feel like a horizon has just opened up.

01:14:12   - Because Evernote's shortcut support is very good.

01:14:16   They have lots of different things.

01:14:18   you can do with it. So the new Evernote as well is relatively lightweight.

01:14:22   Look, it's still weird in a bunch of places.

01:14:24   Like sometimes it does things and I'm like, Evernote, why are you doing this?

01:14:28   Like, you know, like I go to enter some text in and everything just moves a little bit.

01:14:32   Like, what are you doing? Why are you doing this?

01:14:34   So but it is exactly perfect right now for what I need,

01:14:40   which I cannot believe that somehow Evernote is back in my life.

01:14:45   It's back on my home screen.

01:14:47   Oh wow, on the home screen.

01:14:48   Yeah, that's great.

01:14:49   I need it to be there.

01:14:50   It's because, you know, it is where Cortex brand lives for me.

01:14:54   So, you know, like it is doing a good job for me right now.

01:14:58   And I'm genuinely very, very surprised about this.

01:15:01   I kind of can't believe that, Myke.

01:15:05   It's so beautiful, really, when you think about it.

01:15:08   Right, that we're back here again.

01:15:10   But here I am, Evernote.

01:15:11   It's it's it's back in my life in a big way.

01:15:14   But guess what? I still don't use WorkChat.

01:15:16   No, you don't use the work chat. Don't use it. I don't expect to use it either.

01:15:21   You know, the crazy thing was, I was actually in a situation where I was thinking,

01:15:26   oh, maybe I should use Evernote work chat for this. I was like, no, wait a minute. No,

01:15:30   no, there's got to be a better way. But it has to be. There was a change in workflow where I was

01:15:36   thinking for a second, is Evernote work chat the solution to this problem? It's like, no, no,

01:15:40   No, I refuse. I refuse. But I think it's funny that you're on the Evernote train.

01:15:49   For a company I think it is fair to say we have given a lot of kicking to over our time

01:15:54   here at Cortex. Like I said at the beginning of the show, because of Evernote, I have a

01:16:00   video this month because they've been keeping track of everything I've been putting in

01:16:04   them for seven years now at this point.

01:16:06   Oh sh*t, I've just realised.

01:16:09   What?

01:16:09   WorkChat probably is a good idea for this.

01:16:12   Oh god damn it.

01:16:14   Right, because I have valued the realisation of conversation silos.

01:16:22   Yes, very important.

01:16:23   This is the thing we've spoken about a bunch and it's something that Spark allows me to do with

01:16:28   email with our sales manager Kerry, right? Like we can have conversations about the emails.

01:16:34   Well maybe me and you should be having our cortex brand conversations in WorkChat?

01:16:39   That is a pretty good, I mean that's the most sensible silo.

01:16:45   I think that is the thing that actually makes the most sense to do.

01:16:48   God ******* damn it. Evernote.

01:16:50   Evernote. It always gets you.

01:16:54   You got your back. But no, I've never used WorkChat before. I was used back with vengeance.

01:17:00   Now you're sucking me in further than you ever have.

01:17:02   Alright, so expect some invitations from me, Gray, to some notebooks.

01:17:06   You can't escape the trunk. The trunk is always going to get you.

01:17:09   It never forgets.

01:17:11   And Myke, you were able to go somewhere I was sadly not able to go.

01:17:21   And I want to know how was PodCon 2? This is an actual 2, by the way.

01:17:29   this is for real too. For real too, yeah this is a real one. It's not a joke it actually is

01:17:33   PodCon 2. It's not like Year of Stability 2. I was genuinely surprised that PodCon 2 was able

01:17:39   to do something that many events that I've been to have not been able to do. The second one was

01:17:44   better than the first one. So it was better in a bunch of ways. It was better for me personally and

01:17:49   professionally, but it was also just a, I think it was a better run event. The convention center

01:17:57   it was more effectively used. They used less of the convention center. So there were more

01:18:01   people there for sure, but it was less spread out, which I liked. Because last time there

01:18:07   was kind of some things happening over here and some things happening over here and it

01:18:10   was like multiple minutes of walking to get from this talk to this talk. This time it

01:18:16   was much more contained within the convention center. So you didn't have to move around

01:18:21   so much to get to where you needed to be. So that was really good, right? Because it

01:18:25   It just felt like everything was kind of more accessible,

01:18:29   which I enjoyed. The content was balanced really nicely.

01:18:33   I very much enjoyed the panels that I was a part of. They were,

01:18:36   they were very different. Um, and I liked them a lot, right? So I did one,

01:18:40   which was a panel about kind of forgotten podcast ideas.

01:18:45   So here's some ideas that I have that I've never made.

01:18:48   So everybody in the panel was sharing stuff,

01:18:51   But then also we got a lot of audience participation

01:18:54   in that one for ideas that people had

01:18:57   for podcasts they want to make, but couldn't make them

01:19:00   and they weren't sure why.

01:19:01   And then we could talk about that.

01:19:02   So that was really fun.

01:19:03   And then I was also part of a panel about origin stories,

01:19:07   which was, I loved it.

01:19:10   It was, I think there was six of us talking about

01:19:13   how we got started in podcasting

01:19:14   and how we got to where we are.

01:19:16   And it ended up being this really emotional panel.

01:19:20   because people were sharing their stories.

01:19:23   There's a lot of people, you know,

01:19:25   I think probably many of our listeners

01:19:27   can kind of feel this way of like,

01:19:29   sometimes a lot of creative endeavors

01:19:31   come out with some frustration

01:19:33   or there is a lot of rejection leading up to any success.

01:19:37   So it was fascinating to talk about that stuff.

01:19:41   I will say nobody has asked me to do this,

01:19:44   but it is possible to buy a digital pass

01:19:47   the conference still where you can hear the panels. So that is available if people want to do that.

01:19:54   I am very much looking forward to listening back to some of my panels but also a bunch of stuff

01:20:00   that I missed. There's like a lot of panels that I would have liked to go to but I had a busy couple

01:20:04   of days so I couldn't get to where I was actually doing more at this podcast than the previous one.

01:20:08   So I like last time I had some time to go and sit in some panels but this time I didn't.

01:20:13   I was gonna say you sound like you were a lot busier at this time.

01:20:16   Yeah, yeah, I was. Especially most of my stuff was on Sunday, so Sunday was kind of like my feet didn't touch the ground for a while.

01:20:23   Because they were carrying you around from place to place?

01:20:27   Yeah, that's one of the best things about this PodCon is they have these thrones that they carry you around in.

01:20:32   It was really nice of them to be able to do that for me.

01:20:34   That is quite an upgrade.

01:20:36   You're just like, taking around like an emperor from talk to talk. It's really nice of them.

01:20:43   Yeah, I mean that is for me a pretty big selling feature for PodCon 3.

01:20:46   Yeah, they have a nice one for you, so don't worry about it.

01:20:50   They actually already had it there with your name on it hoping that you would arrive.

01:20:52   Oh fantastic.

01:20:53   Now like, okay, panels, conference, that's great.

01:20:56   But Myke, you know what I really want to know about?

01:21:01   Is the signing.

01:21:02   How did the signing go?

01:21:03   I didn't f*** it up this time.

01:21:05   Oh okay.

01:21:06   So that was good.

01:21:07   I didn't ruin anybody's day on this signing.

01:21:12   anything at the beginning I was moving too fast. So but I was I was much better

01:21:17   I told the the lovely volunteer who was working with me I was like you you must

01:21:22   must tell me how long I'm taking right like if we get a quarter of the way

01:21:28   through this and I'm not moving at the speed that I should be moving at I really

01:21:32   I said to him like it wasn't good for me last year so you need to you you have to

01:21:37   keep on me and he was he understood that and we worked well together and he was

01:21:42   keeping me a check of my time and I got through everyone just at the right

01:21:46   amount of time. I think there was definitely more people in my signing

01:21:51   this year which I was very thankful of and I can only assume it was because

01:21:54   people wanted to get their hands on that sweet sweet poster. I will now share in

01:21:59   our show notes what my poster looked like because that's that feels fair they

01:22:05   are not available but you can see it. I love this poster more than the original somehow.

01:22:12   I don't know how I could have loved it more but I do. It is as a you should go see it

01:22:17   it will be in the show notes but basically it's me in an impossible flying machine flying

01:22:23   into Seattle. I think I mentioned last time that the kind of the idea was like a movie

01:22:28   sequel. Like a sequel, like it's the second time. And CJ, who I work with on these, kind

01:22:36   of went for a Miyazaki look. So Miyazaki is like My Neighbor Totoro and movies like that,

01:22:44   like where the colors are quite faded. I think that was kind of what he was going for, which

01:22:48   has led to something very beautiful. And all of my podcast co-hosts are featured in this

01:22:55   poster which is amazing. You're in there as a little robot.

01:22:59   I love it. There's an array of Macs and iPads behind you and all of your co-hosts

01:23:05   are featured on there. I mean it's quite impressive considering how many people have

01:23:09   to be squeezed into this frame. It's a good accomplishment.

01:23:13   Yeah, I didn't ask for that. Again, all of this stuff is a surprise to me really. I just

01:23:19   give CJ the most limited "I want another one and it'd kind of be like a sequel, thank

01:23:24   you!" and then he comes back with like a bunch of amazing roots and this was one

01:23:28   this was a situation that I have learned kind of in working with creative people

01:23:33   so when he provided me with his options I could tell that this was the one he

01:23:42   was most excited about and I have learned in working with artists and

01:23:47   creative people of this ilk if somebody seems excited about something and you

01:23:53   like it, always go with that option.

01:23:55   Oh, yeah. Yeah.

01:23:56   Because they will create the best work that way.

01:23:58   So like that is I will give that to our listeners as a tip, if you ever work with

01:24:03   anybody in a creative field like this, if they give you an inclination that there is

01:24:07   a specific route of the options that they give you that they are most excited about,

01:24:12   always go with that one because that will produce the best work because people,

01:24:17   creative people, if they're excited about something, they will pour more of

01:24:21   themselves into it, I think.

01:24:22   - Yeah, and in my experience, it makes everybody happier

01:24:27   because for a project like this where it's like,

01:24:31   well, you're not actually making a Miyazaki film,

01:24:34   you need a poster, and so that doesn't have,

01:24:38   like you don't really need specific design guidelines,

01:24:41   like it doesn't have to fit this,

01:24:43   you're asking someone to give of themselves creatively

01:24:46   to make a thing, and so it works better for both parties

01:24:50   where if you don't need something specific

01:24:53   and there's something that the creative person

01:24:55   is excited about that they think is a great version,

01:24:58   almost always you should go with that

01:25:00   because it's just like everybody's happier.

01:25:02   You get a thing where the other person

01:25:05   is thinking about it a lot

01:25:07   and so they're working through in their mind

01:25:09   what the best way to show this off creatively is

01:25:13   and it's a better final product

01:25:15   and it's a better thing to make

01:25:17   for the creative person as well.

01:25:19   So yeah, you don't always have that kind of freedom,

01:25:22   but when you do, you should totally take advantage of it.

01:25:25   - I can be difficult, but in that when I work with people

01:25:29   to create artistic things, like visual things,

01:25:33   I try and give as little brief as possible most of the time,

01:25:37   which can be tricky, but in my experience,

01:25:40   it tends to work out for the best.

01:25:43   Unless I need something very specifically,

01:25:46   which is very rare, I feel like I am able to receive better work for that because in

01:25:54   that way I am trusting the person who I believe in creatively to access their creativity and

01:26:05   to use that because that's why I'm working with these people is I want to be able to

01:26:11   benefit from their creative mind and their skills.

01:26:14   So I just feel like sometimes if you just can give very basic parameters around something,

01:26:23   you will always end up with something beautiful.

01:26:25   And like one of the greatest artistic collaborations of my career is with our podcast art designer,

01:26:33   Simon.

01:26:34   Simon is an incredible designer who's very talented and does a lot of wonderful work

01:26:41   and we brief him so kind of basically, you know, a lot of the time it's like this is

01:26:50   the name of the show and this is what the show is about and then he will go away and

01:26:56   come up with something beautiful.

01:26:58   Yeah, every time hit out of the park.

01:27:02   Yeah, so I find if you can find someone like that,

01:27:06   it's, I just find it to be very beneficial, you know,

01:27:09   like to be able to find relationships like that,

01:27:12   where you can work with someone creatively in that way.

01:27:15   So when you find someone like that, if you need that,

01:27:19   I think it's very beneficial to everybody

01:27:22   to be able to, like to not like pen them in

01:27:25   to a specific thing, right?

01:27:27   Like, yeah, so that's kind of a tangent to be like,

01:27:31   this post is beautiful and I love it.

01:27:33   The signing was great, I signed way more devices this time.

01:27:37   Lots of iPads, signed lots of iPads.

01:27:38   I love signing iPads now.

01:27:40   Now I'm over the fear of it.

01:27:42   Oh boy, do I love signing an iPad.

01:27:44   - At least with an iPad you have more space.

01:27:46   It feels like you're not so cramped as with a phone.

01:27:49   - Mm-hmm, iPads are good though, I like signing iPads.

01:27:53   And I have a fun story, so I had a terrible time last year

01:27:57   with overrunning my signing.

01:28:00   And I was working with a lovely volunteer who,

01:28:04   I think I ruined their day as I moved way too slowly

01:28:09   through my signing, spending way too much time

01:28:12   with everybody and bumping up against

01:28:15   the very important signing that was occurring after me.

01:28:19   It was a disaster, it was fun,

01:28:21   but I feel like I made this person's day very difficult.

01:28:25   So I had a creator chat,

01:28:26   which is where me and 12 people go into a room for an hour and we sit and talk.

01:28:31   And, uh, I wasn't really keeping track of the time.

01:28:34   I was kind of like just glancing in my watch every now and then.

01:28:37   And I kind of thought that I was like, I don't know, like three quarters of the

01:28:40   way through or whatever.

01:28:41   And, uh, it turned out that I was significantly overrunning my time.

01:28:46   Can you guess who walked in the room to tell me that I was

01:28:50   significantly overrunning my time?

01:28:53   It was the volunteer from my signing the previous year.

01:28:58   I feel like-- and I said it to this lady--

01:29:03   I feel like I am just ruining your life.

01:29:06   I am always here to cause you problems.

01:29:09   And it was hilarious because she wasn't the person

01:29:11   that I was dealing with when I went into the room.

01:29:14   It was just the person who had to come in and say,

01:29:17   you're making things difficult again.

01:29:19   It was just when you were a problem, she was summoned.

01:29:22   Yeah. She's the only person that can deal with me, maybe. I don't know.

01:29:26   It's like, look, you've done it before. You've got to get this guy to wrap up.

01:29:29   But it was kind of a wonderful moment to me when she walked in the room and I was

01:29:34   like, oh, no, I've done it again.

01:29:37   Poor Myke.

01:29:40   But PodCon was brilliant.

01:29:41   Like one of the things for me personally this time, this convention

01:29:46   is also full of podcasters who I greatly respect and who

01:29:51   shows I listen to every single week. So it's like a fun thing for me that I get to interact

01:29:56   with these people. But last year was very much like it was the first time I got to meet

01:30:03   anyone. And I was also like, maybe this is the only time I ever get to meet these people.

01:30:08   So like, there was a lot kind of wrapped up for me of like, you know, like the social

01:30:14   interaction thing, like, do I tell these people how much I appreciate them, because it's the

01:30:18   only time I'll ever meet them and then I felt really awkward the whole time. This

01:30:22   time I didn't go into the convention feeling that way because I'd

01:30:25   already met a lot of these people so I ended up being able to have much better

01:30:30   conversations and interactions with everyone because I wasn't so socially

01:30:34   awkward so that was nice that was a nice feeling and I got to meet like a bunch

01:30:38   of really amazing creators I had some wonderful conversations with people

01:30:43   But overall was just a much better experience because one, I felt more comfortable and two,

01:30:50   they just did a great job of making a second run at this.

01:30:54   And I really hope that there's more Podcons and that they'll keep inviting me because

01:30:58   I think stuff like this should exist for our industry and I'm really happy that the people

01:31:04   that are putting it together really know how to do this stuff.

01:31:08   So it was great.

01:31:10   Big thumbs up from me.

01:31:11   You're making me very jealous, Myke.

01:31:14   - I feel like if there's a third one,

01:31:15   you've just got to do it, man.

01:31:17   It's very, very good, very valuable.

01:31:20   I like that there is an event for podcasting

01:31:25   that focuses on people that make it

01:31:27   and people that enjoy it.

01:31:29   I think that that is a really nice thing to exist.

01:31:32   And I think that it brings out a group

01:31:34   of really interesting, creative people

01:31:37   that want to come and see their favorite shows.

01:31:40   and also care about the craft.

01:31:43   - And you get to sign a lot of posters.

01:31:44   - You get to sign a lot of posters too.

01:31:46   - Don't you take too long out of it.

01:31:46   - And oh boy, do I have a lot of those posters.

01:31:48   I still have so many left 'cause I always over order

01:31:50   'cause I'm terrified of the thought

01:31:52   of not having enough, right?

01:31:54   So I always order two times the amount that I need,

01:31:57   which now means I just have this huge box

01:31:59   full of last year's posters and this year's posters.

01:32:01   I don't know what I'm gonna do with them.

01:32:02   - I was gonna say, what are you gonna do with them?

01:32:04   - I have no idea, but I made a promise, right?

01:32:08   So I won't give them away

01:32:10   because I made a promise that you get them by coming,

01:32:13   'cause that is the deal, right, that we all make.

01:32:16   So I just have these posters.

01:32:17   I don't know, I guess at some point,

01:32:18   I'm gonna have to recycle them.

01:32:20   But it just feels sad, so I feel like I,

01:32:22   what's gonna happen is,

01:32:24   they're just gonna keep building up, right?

01:32:26   That's what's gonna happen.

01:32:27   These posters spark joy for me,

01:32:29   so what am I supposed to do?

01:32:31   (chime)

01:32:31   - Okay, I'm gonna have some optional homework

01:32:35   for the listeners for this episode.

01:32:37   I watched a documentary on Netflix.

01:32:40   that I feel is

01:32:44   Cortex work documentary adjacent.

01:32:51   And that documentary was American Meme.

01:32:54   - I love this name so much.

01:32:55   - It's a great name.

01:32:57   - In case it isn't immediately obvious,

01:32:59   it's a pun on the American dream.

01:33:01   So it's called the American Meme.

01:33:03   - Yeah, the documentary just follows the lives

01:33:09   and the working lives of people who make a living

01:33:13   by being super famous.

01:33:16   And I watched it and I was kind of like hypnotized

01:33:21   and fascinated and then at the end of it,

01:33:25   I thought like, oh, this is actually kind of a cortexy topic

01:33:30   because in our much smaller ways than Paris Hilton,

01:33:35   being known by people we don't know,

01:33:38   which is like the definition of fame,

01:33:40   is part of this job and part of the industries

01:33:45   that we work in.

01:33:46   The very fact that you can go to a place

01:33:49   and people come to see a poster of you

01:33:52   on an amazing flying machine, that is fame.

01:33:56   And so I thought it might make for an interesting discussion

01:33:59   for us on the show.

01:34:01   And so we'll do that next time we record Cortex.

01:34:05   So if you, the listener, want to catch American Meme on Netflix before then, you can go do

01:34:12   so.

01:34:13   I feel like it's an easier thing to tell people to watch.

01:34:16   I feel like Cortex Movie Club is much more kind on homework than Cortex Book Club.

01:34:22   Well, Cortex Book Club is brutal.

01:34:25   It's punishment for everybody.

01:34:28   The homework is the literal definition of homework.

01:34:31   It's like nobody should want to do it and it's mostly pointless.

01:34:34   controversial. Outrageous, Myke. But Cortex Movie Club I think is a lot kinder. I watched

01:34:44   the trailer for this when you told me about it and I was like yeah okay let's do this

01:34:49   because the trailer the trailer is very good. I'll put the trailer, they are on YouTube

01:34:53   actually so I'll put the trailer in the show notes too so people can watch that. But yeah

01:34:58   I'm really looking forward to this one. I'm a little bit apprehensive of it I will say

01:35:02   say, just because I've been thinking about social media, as I think everybody does today,

01:35:06   and like how much they want to use it, and I'm not convinced that this is going to make

01:35:11   me feel good about my use of social media, but we'll see.

01:35:14   Well, you'll have to find out when you watch it.

01:35:16   Next time.

01:35:17   Next time.

01:35:18   Cortex Movie Club.