00:00:00   Where do I want to start? Where do I want to start?

00:00:03   I'm going to start by eating this little piece of cheese.

00:00:05   That's how I'm going to start the show this week.

00:00:11   I'm sure the listeners won't mind. No.

00:00:15   I'm hungry.

00:00:17   Okay, Myke. I decided I'm keeping the tennis max.

00:00:24   I'm pleased. You know, I felt like with the way that 2018 was going,

00:00:29   you were gonna tell me you'd like move down to the SE or something.

00:00:33   I was gonna come to this episode and tell you that I've switched to Android. That was

00:00:36   gonna be the end result. Like, "Hey Myke."

00:00:39   If that ever happened, I'm pretty sure the subreddit would implode in upon itself.

00:00:45   It would be an interesting episode, that's for sure.

00:00:47   But that's not this episode. That's not today.

00:00:49   I will say I have pre-ordered a Pixel 3 XL.

00:00:54   Oh, have they come out with a new one?

00:00:56   They sure have. It's interesting. I'm not too keen on the way that it looks. But I want

00:01:05   to try it out. I like to always have an Android device around.

00:01:08   Yeah, it's like a professional responsibility for you.

00:01:11   Yeah, I think so. Plus it's a fun new toy.

00:01:13   Oh, they've gone with the notch too.

00:01:15   They've gone with the notch too.

00:01:16   Well, well, well. Look who comes around.

00:01:18   It's a lot bigger and it still has a chin. And Google say that this is for front-facing

00:01:24   stereo speakers, which, while I feel is a nicety, I'm not necessarily sure that people

00:01:29   want that over a bigger screen. But I'm intrigued. And again, it's like, the Pixel 2 is said

00:01:36   to have a better camera than the XS, so how good is the Pixel 3's camera gonna be? So

00:01:42   I'm intrigued. I'm very intrigued. So I've pre-ordered one of them, and I will report

00:01:49   back sometime in the future on my findings.

00:01:52   Yeah, I'll be curious. I don't plan to switch to Android anytime soon, but I've

00:01:58   always figured if that day ever came, I'd probably just get a Pixel. It seems like that

00:02:01   would be the obvious choice.

00:02:02   It's the most iPhone-y Android phone. The Pixel is closer to the iPhone than it is to

00:02:07   other Android phones. It's made by the platform vendor, and they put a lot of effort into

00:02:13   it. Their presentation was really interesting this time. They did a lot of very traditionally

00:02:17   Apple-y things. Like they had their chief design person do a little video and talk about

00:02:23   their design process and stuff. It was an interesting presentation. The response to

00:02:28   this phone has been mixed so far, I think, amongst the Android community, because it

00:02:32   feels like they're more expensive without there being a ton more. But it looks good

00:02:39   to me, at least. I'm keen to see how the reviews come out.

00:02:42   Yeah, I'm always glad like stuff like this exists and I feel like if you're gonna do Android like go all in on Google

00:02:49   That seems like the most sensible thing. Yeah, I know right? Yeah, go Android go all in on Google

00:02:53   Like I'll do everything with Google if I ever go over to Android like I don't understand why you would do it

00:02:57   Otherwise, like I love Samsung's design for hardware. I just can't stand their software design. Yeah

00:03:04   No, I can agree with that. Sorry. I'm just finishing my cheese more cheese. No, it's the same slice

00:03:10   I just wasn't eating it during the Android section.

00:03:14   I didn't want to be rude, but I'm hungry.

00:03:16   - So come on then, the XS Max.

00:03:19   - Okay, listen, so here,

00:03:20   let me tell you the moment that I knew.

00:03:22   - All right.

00:03:23   - So I didn't mention it last episode,

00:03:26   but when I set up this phone,

00:03:27   I made a decision to do a thing I haven't done

00:03:29   in a really long time,

00:03:30   which is set up the phone as a brand new device.

00:03:35   - Right, not from a backup.

00:03:36   - So not from iCloud backup.

00:03:39   I was like, you know what I want to do?

00:03:40   Let me just try it because boy over the years

00:03:44   have I flipped a lot of switches here and there in settings.

00:03:47   And I thought, let me see what Apple wants

00:03:49   like the default experience to be.

00:03:51   I just thought it'd be like an interesting thing to do.

00:03:54   It's less interesting than I was expecting

00:03:55   'cause mostly it's like, no, all those switches

00:03:57   that I flipped, I flipped them.

00:03:57   - There's not that much you can do.

00:03:58   - Yeah, it's like-- - Really, you know.

00:04:00   There's not that much that you can actually really get into.

00:04:04   - Yeah, it really was funny because I realized like,

00:04:08   oh, I know immediately the things that are different

00:04:09   and I don't like them,

00:04:10   but there's also not an infinite number of them, right?

00:04:13   So I was like, well,

00:04:16   I guess I'm glad I did this to get rid of a bunch of apps

00:04:18   that I didn't remember to install,

00:04:20   but that was really the only outcome that happened there.

00:04:23   But there were a couple of days

00:04:25   where I was still running my old iPhone X

00:04:30   and sort of going back and forth to be like,

00:04:32   oh, I need to get this thing off the X

00:04:33   that doesn't transfer.

00:04:35   I had to go back and forth

00:04:37   between the two devices a couple of times

00:04:38   just to check like, oh, has this moved over?

00:04:40   Or how do I want to set this thing up?

00:04:42   And I was one morning walking to the office

00:04:47   and something occurred to me

00:04:48   and I took out my phone to make a note.

00:04:51   And in the process of making the note,

00:04:53   I looked down at the phone and I thought, wait a second,

00:04:56   did I bring the X this morning?

00:05:00   I think I brought the X this morning.

00:05:02   And I was like, oh, no, I did bring the Max this morning.

00:05:06   And I was like, "Well, I guess I'm keeping

00:05:08   "the bigger phone now."

00:05:09   - You got used to it very fast.

00:05:11   - I got used to it so fast,

00:05:13   and it was really interesting that my reaction was,

00:05:18   this big phone, it could be bigger, right?

00:05:21   Like I wouldn't notice if it was actually much bigger.

00:05:24   So yeah, I'm totally keeping it.

00:05:26   I really like it.

00:05:28   I'm very happy with the big screen.

00:05:30   And I'm liking it particularly for reading

00:05:34   with the PopSocket and other things.

00:05:35   Like it's really nice.

00:05:37   I'm happy to have this big phone.

00:05:39   I'm sticking with it.

00:05:40   I just, I couldn't believe that there was a moment where

00:05:43   I was unsure, is this really the big one or not?

00:05:48   And that was like, okay, well now it's not going back.

00:05:50   Now it's sticking with me.

00:05:51   - I mean, you know, I'm so happy with it.

00:05:53   In a similar way, like it happens slightly differently

00:05:56   for me, but I think I may have mentioned it

00:05:57   on the last episode.

00:05:59   The X felt tiny within minutes of me using it.

00:06:04   I absolutely love this phone.

00:06:05   I love everything about it.

00:06:06   It's really great.

00:06:07   I'm very, very happy with it.

00:06:09   And I'm pleased that you have stuck with that size too, because I think it is, again, I

00:06:13   mean, I'm always going to say this, but I think it is the better size for a lot of people.

00:06:17   Not for everyone, I understand, but I really do feel like on these pocket computers, the

00:06:21   bigger screens you have, you just have much more benefit all the time.

00:06:25   Yeah.

00:06:26   And I know you also want to collect members for your Max Club.

00:06:30   And so you can count me as a member of the club that you are the king of.

00:06:35   You know, something else I'm going to love on my phone very soon.

00:06:38   Stardew Valley is coming to iOS.

00:06:40   Oh, Jesus Christ.

00:06:43   Okay.

00:06:44   I'm happy for you, I guess?

00:06:46   Yeah.

00:06:47   This is very exciting.

00:06:49   I don't want social obligations, the game on my phone, but, you know, it's...

00:06:54   I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

00:06:55   I did actually...

00:06:56   I read an article recently that was about the developer and the thing that you told

00:07:01   me when we first reviewed that game on the show about how it was just this one man project.

00:07:06   And man, again, just incredibly impressive that a single human being made that game.

00:07:13   It's just inconceivable to me.

00:07:14   It did a profile in GQ, that's probably what you read.

00:07:17   That sounds like what it was. I think that's what I came across. I don't have any idea

00:07:21   how this came into my radar, but it did somehow and I read through it and I was like, "Oh

00:07:26   This sounds like a brutal process this guy went through.

00:07:30   He produced an amazing piece of artwork,

00:07:33   and what's supposed to happen in those situations has happened,

00:07:36   which is the world has showered him with money.

00:07:39   And so it's like, I hope the iOS release does the same thing again.

00:07:42   I never thought it was going to happen.

00:07:44   Like, I felt like if it would have happened, it would have happened already.

00:07:46   I'm very excited about the possibility of having that with me all the time.

00:07:51   Scared, a little, too.

00:07:54   Also excited.

00:07:56   Well, you'll be able to tend your form from anywhere, give gifts to people in the village

00:08:02   so that they like you, and it'll suck your whole life away, Myke.

00:08:05   I'm excited about that possibility.

00:08:09   This episode is brought to you in part by our friends over at FreshBooks.

00:08:13   FreshBooks know how important it is for you to make smart decisions for your business.

00:08:19   And one of the smartest decisions that you can make is using FreshBooks.

00:08:22   And let me tell you a few reasons why.

00:08:24   One, you're going to save yourself a ton of time.

00:08:26   FreshBooks have calculated that they can save you up to 192 hours with their cloud accounting

00:08:33   software because it's so easy to use.

00:08:37   FreshBooks will help you simplify tasks like invoicing, expense tracking and getting paid

00:08:41   online.

00:08:42   Because of this, FreshBooks has drastically reduced the time it takes for over 10 million

00:08:47   people that use their service to deal with their paperwork.

00:08:50   Nobody wants to have to deal with paperwork, especially, I'm a pen and paper guy, but

00:08:55   I never want to have to deal with the paper version of paperwork. And that's one of the

00:08:59   great things about FreshBooks, it's all online. No one's mailing invoices to each other, come

00:09:03   on. It's 2018. And do you know what's even better when you use something like FreshBooks?

00:09:09   And this is even better than emailing invoices. You don't even want to be dealing with PDFs

00:09:13   in 2018 because with FreshBooks, everything is taken care of. You generate your invoices

00:09:19   in their system, which is all beautiful, it's easy to use, and it's what you see is what

00:09:23   you get. As you are building the invoice you see exactly how it's going to look when

00:09:28   it hits the inbox of your client. And then because you send it all through their system,

00:09:32   FreshBooks can keep track of everything for you. They will know and can tell you when

00:09:37   your client has seen the invoice, they will tell you if the client has printed the invoice.

00:09:41   This puts an end to all of those guessing games. Did they get it? Did they look at it?

00:09:46   You don't have to send those chaser emails. And even more than that, FreshBooks can automate

00:09:50   late payment email reminders for you so you spend even less time chasing payments and

00:09:55   paperwork and more time doing whatever it is that you do to make that money roll in.

00:10:01   If for any reason you have not yet tried out FreshBooks I want you to try it. They're

00:10:05   offering an unrestricted 30 day free trial for listeners of this show. No credit card

00:10:09   required. All you have to do is go to freshbooks.com/cortex and enter cortex in the how did you hear about

00:10:15   us section when you're going through the process to say oh hey how do you know about FreshBooks

00:10:19   say I heard about it on Cortex.

00:10:21   Look, if for any reason you ever send any invoices

00:10:24   or you do any expense tracking,

00:10:25   please do yourself a favor and check out FreshBooks.

00:10:28   We've used them for like four years now.

00:10:30   We sent over a thousand invoices at this point,

00:10:34   maybe getting up to fifteen hundred.

00:10:36   I wouldn't go anywhere else.

00:10:37   I trust them with our work and it's super important to me.

00:10:40   And I think you're going to love it, too.

00:10:41   Our thanks to FreshBooks for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:10:45   So last time on the show, we spoke about homescreens.

00:10:49   There were actually quite a lot of people that were interested in seeing what your watch face looked like right now.

00:10:58   [SIGHS]

00:10:59   Okay. I mean, we can do this.

00:11:02   Do you want to see my watch face?

00:11:04   I mean, I have no watch face to show you, right?

00:11:06   Yeah, this is— I was literally just about to ask you for your watch face, and then I had a little—

00:11:11   like, a little pang of sadness.

00:11:13   I mean, I can take a picture of my watch and send it to you if you want.

00:11:16   I would like— yeah, I would like you to do that.

00:11:18   Put that on the show notes, please.

00:11:19   Take a picture of your watch face.

00:11:20   And can you send it to me now?

00:11:22   I would like to see that first, actually.

00:11:23   Did you get it?

00:11:24   I have received your watch face.

00:11:26   I mean, just from a pure aesthetic perspective, your

00:11:32   watch face beats my watch face.

00:11:34   There's no question.

00:11:35   There's no question at all.

00:11:37   This is not one of those things where I was willing to debate, right?

00:11:42   Like it's like aesthetically and for pure function of what's the time, I win.

00:11:47   Yeah, it's a nice looking watch face.

00:11:49   I don't normally like the white watch faces.

00:11:53   This one looks good, this Nomos brand.

00:11:56   It photographs peculiarly because really when I look at it, it's a little bit more silvery

00:12:03   than it is white.

00:12:04   Really?

00:12:05   Okay.

00:12:06   I mean it is white, but when I look at it in most lights it's not pure white.

00:12:11   It's kind of like a mix.

00:12:12   It's like closer to a bright silver in a way.

00:12:16   It's hard to describe.

00:12:17   Yeah, but I mean, functionality-wise, it doesn't look like it has any Todoist integrations,

00:12:25   and I don't think it's showing you the weather.

00:12:28   What is that little dial above the seconds dial?

00:12:31   This little circle?

00:12:32   It's the power meter, it's how much wind I have left in the spring.

00:12:38   As it feels more red, it means it needs to be wound.

00:12:41   When I wind it, the red goes away.

00:12:44   Okay.

00:12:45   want it to be green like a battery. Right, but it's the opposite, right? Yes, I understand

00:12:50   the point that you're making. That little dial is green, the rest of it is kind of a

00:12:54   greeny color. What is this watch that doesn't photograph the colors that it is? What kind

00:12:58   of technology is this? I don't understand. Lighting, man. Lighting really makes a difference.

00:13:04   Anyway, but that little power gauge, or the "gung reserve" as it's called, that was what

00:13:13   sold me on this watch originally. I think I mentioned this the first time I spoke about

00:13:17   it but that was what originally sold me on this. I loved that little design element.

00:13:21   It's a very nice looking watch. It's a very nice looking watch, Myke.

00:13:25   Alright so show me what you got then.

00:13:28   Oh okay well look I mean before I show you anything I just have to say I'm experiencing

00:13:36   a great deal of dissatisfaction. Okay just for the record I feel like in a moment of

00:13:42   I'm actually very happy with all of the technology in my life.

00:13:46   So I'm not always like, "Oh, I'm complaining about things."

00:13:48   I'm generally very happy, like, with all the things that I'm using in my life right

00:13:52   now.

00:13:53   But I am sort of super frustrated with the watch and the watch faces.

00:13:57   And I don't know how in detail I can psychologically get into this today.

00:14:03   So I might just blow past this.

00:14:05   But I will say that I am trying, I'm trying, the new infographic watch face that came out

00:14:14   with the Series 4.

00:14:15   So let me send that to you.

00:14:17   Okay.

00:14:18   What are you laughing at, Myke?

00:14:23   Prepare for Cortex!

00:14:25   I feel like we should start, like that should just be the way the show opens for everyone,

00:14:29   you know?

00:14:30   Prepare, oh right.

00:14:31   You must prepare for Cortex!

00:14:33   Cortex is happening to you!

00:14:34   right when Tuesday most of the time rolls around. Sometimes yeah it gets pushed to people's watches

00:14:43   and it says prepare for Cortex so yeah what I don't know why that's so funny Myke. Oh that's

00:14:48   definitely the name of this episode. Prepare for Cortex. I'm glad this is amusing to you Myke.

00:14:54   What is the 32? Okay all right let me go around this watch face here. So the infographic watch

00:15:03   is the new one from Apple and it's the one that they want to be able to show you a billion

00:15:08   pieces of information.

00:15:09   And I maintain good idea in theory, right? Like computer watch should be able to show

00:15:15   you lots of information. That's why you wear it.

00:15:17   Yeah. Good idea in theory, ass ugly in execution.

00:15:22   So I will say, I mean, you probably haven't seen this, but like this is a thing that people

00:15:27   talking about. Our good friend of the show, Marco Arment, who is a watch aficionado, the

00:15:33   reason that I wear the watch that I wear, he wrote a really interesting article about

00:15:39   why it's hard to read the time on this face. And kind of shows, as he knows, how it compares

00:15:48   to more traditional watch faces as well. So yes, this is potentially what you're frustrated

00:15:57   about what this is something that is being spoken about in the wider kind of Apple observer

00:16:03   community.

00:16:04   Okay, all right. That's interesting to hear that I'm not just like a man in an island then

00:16:08   because it's... I'm frustrated with a bunch of interactions of various parts of the watch.

00:16:16   Like I don't want to get into it now, but let's just say I took a lot of different screenshots

00:16:21   of all the possible combinations of all the different watch faces and was furious.

00:16:25   - Let's just say.

00:16:26   (laughing)

00:16:28   - Like it was a thing that happened one morning

00:16:30   when I was really angry.

00:16:31   And part of it is like to just try to not get

00:16:35   into the whole of it, but to distill it down,

00:16:38   you really only have a very few options.

00:16:42   Like Apple kind of pretends like there's

00:16:44   a million watch faces, but there's actually

00:16:46   about like six different kinds.

00:16:49   And then the instant you decide on something

00:16:52   that you want, you basically have no choices and you have to live with the compromises

00:16:57   of whatever watch face gives that.

00:16:59   So one of the reasons I am trying the infographic watch face is OmniFocus has a complication

00:17:10   integration that will, if you're using one of the watch faces that allows you to display

00:17:15   text from a complication, you can pick a perspective and it will show you whatever the top item

00:17:22   is in that perspective.

00:17:24   And I've sort of half used this before,

00:17:28   but since the new watch,

00:17:29   and since a lot of the changes in OmniFocus 3,

00:17:32   I've been like, oh, I can actually build a perspective

00:17:34   that shows exactly what I want when,

00:17:36   and let me really use this on the watch.

00:17:40   And I have to say, it's a huge deal for me.

00:17:43   It is a really big deal to have this custom perspective

00:17:48   that on my watch face always shows at any moment,

00:17:53   the thing that past me thought would be

00:17:56   the most important thing for me to do at this moment.

00:17:59   - So is that what Prepare for Cortex is?

00:18:02   - Yeah, so Prepare for Cortex.

00:18:03   - Right, that's actually pointing from OmniFocus.

00:18:05   I thought it was a calendar thing.

00:18:06   Interesting. - No, it's not a calendar.

00:18:08   So this is, like, here's the whole scope of this.

00:18:11   That is a thing that came up on the watch

00:18:15   at the time when I have scheduled, like, the item

00:18:18   that the thing that I should be doing right now

00:18:19   is preparing for Cortex,

00:18:21   you know, in like the couple hours leading up to the show

00:18:23   and get, you know, get ready, prepare.

00:18:26   I have tried to do this in the past with the calendar

00:18:30   and like we've discussed this on the show,

00:18:31   like building out a calendar that shows

00:18:34   this is how I should be,

00:18:35   theoretically spending my time at any particular point,

00:18:38   but it never quite worked as well with the calendar,

00:18:41   partly because like time just marches on

00:18:43   and you'll always be seeing like what's now

00:18:47   what's coming up next.

00:18:49   But with this, I can arrange it so… like a really good example is when it's time

00:18:57   to go to the gym, like that little item pops up and it's at the top of my OmniFocus list.

00:19:02   But I can design the list in such a way so that I think that's a really important thing

00:19:07   to do for the day and it will stay at the top of the list and it will stay at the top

00:19:12   of the watch and other items won't displace that.

00:19:17   So even if I'm working on something else, every time I look at the watch, if I haven't

00:19:23   gone to the gym yet, it reminds me like, "Hey, past you thought like the next most important

00:19:30   thing future you should be doing is going to the gym."

00:19:33   And this is one of the ways I really like technology.

00:19:38   It's like a useful nag and a useful way for like the past

00:19:43   and the present me to communicate to each other.

00:19:48   And we can talk about it a little bit later in the show,

00:19:51   but like, I really think this is made a big,

00:19:55   like this is a big deal.

00:19:56   Like I really love it.

00:19:57   I want a watch face that has

00:20:00   the OmniFocus text complication.

00:20:03   But then there's very few watch faces

00:20:06   that will let you do this.

00:20:08   And most of them look kind of the same.

00:20:12   And let me send you another little screenshot.

00:20:15   So like second best watch face that does this

00:20:19   is Utility Watch Face.

00:20:22   But Utility Watch Face has two problems.

00:20:24   It puts the text on the bottom, which is super ugly.

00:20:30   And if you look at the words prepare for cortex,

00:20:34   you can see that the letters are like uneven.

00:20:36   - I hate it.

00:20:38   - Yeah, there is a reason in typography,

00:20:42   you only ever write words with the bottom of the letters

00:20:46   pointing towards the center of the circle.

00:20:49   Right, like if you look at coins,

00:20:51   coins will only ever write the words around the edge

00:20:54   such that the bottom of the letters

00:20:57   point toward the center of the circle.

00:20:58   Because it looks really ugly if you spread the letters out.

00:21:03   It looks so weird. It looks like that they're like aligned differently.

00:21:08   Even though I know they're not, it looks like it's kind of all like wiggly.

00:21:12   It's very strange.

00:21:13   Yeah, if you look at the prepare, like the P looks lower than the R, and then the E looks lower.

00:21:19   They're all kind of like slanting in different degrees.

00:21:23   Yeah.

00:21:23   It's weird.

00:21:24   - Yeah, it's like someone gives you a big toothy smile

00:21:27   and all of their teeth are pointing out

00:21:29   and there's spaces between their teeth.

00:21:30   Like that's what it looks like.

00:21:31   - And I assume this is an optical illusion

00:21:33   of some description.

00:21:35   - I've zoomed in.

00:21:36   If you zoom in, what I think is happening is

00:21:40   the letters are actually,

00:21:41   it looks like they're like a half a pixel off.

00:21:44   There is some unsmoothness.

00:21:47   I think the perception of it

00:21:49   becomes magnified at a smaller size.

00:21:52   So it's half optical illusion,

00:21:54   but it's half a reality.

00:21:56   Now, in the latest version of watchOS,

00:21:58   Apple converted all of these watch faces

00:22:01   that used to let you have this straight segment of text

00:22:04   on the bottom into this curved segment of text,

00:22:06   which just, it's so ugly, I refuse to use it.

00:22:10   Like it just, it doesn't work.

00:22:11   I have a million other complaints

00:22:12   about the watch faces as well

00:22:13   with like the way they force color sometimes,

00:22:16   but don't allow color other times.

00:22:19   It's really, really infuriating.

00:22:22   I was for a little while so frustrated with the color choices.

00:22:24   I was trying to run the watch in grayscale mode, which is an option in accessibility,

00:22:29   which actually looks great on the watch faces, but it so limits your ability to understand

00:22:37   notifications quickly that the trade-off just isn't worth it.

00:22:40   So anyway, it's like, what watch faces are left that let you write the text straight?

00:22:45   It's like, well, there's solar, which I was using for a while, which for some reason still

00:22:50   has the text straight across the bottom.

00:22:52   modular which is really ugly and has all kinds of problems so really the only watch face

00:23:01   where I can get the OmniFocus complication and it doesn't have some ugly trade-off or

00:23:08   some functionality trade-off is pretty much the infographic one so that's why I'm trying

00:23:16   really hard to make infographic work for me.

00:23:18   But what don't you like about the Infograph Face then? The one that you're using? Like,

00:23:23   what is it that you don't like about it?

00:23:24   The very fact that the text goes across the top in this arc, it actually does make that

00:23:29   text really easy to read, but it makes the time harder to read, because the hour markers

00:23:34   have been removed. And so it's like, couldn't we put this text above the dial? No, it's

00:23:39   got to go over the dial. Like, okay, great. Thanks for that.

00:23:44   I think the other problem is if you have data coming from the complications that are in

00:23:49   the middle of the face, the hands cover them.

00:23:53   Yeah.

00:23:54   Significant parts of the day.

00:23:55   Yeah, it is remarkable how often the hands are covering those center complications.

00:24:02   But I don't, the edge complications, so the ones that I have on this watch have been extraordinarily

00:24:09   carefully selected to minimize ugly, right?

00:24:12   And it's, I have the carrot complication for carrot weather, which again, carrot team,

00:24:17   I cannot express enough love to you for all of the options that you make available in

00:24:21   your complications.

00:24:22   It's incredible.

00:24:23   I think that's just one person, you know.

00:24:25   I mean, I just assumed it was like hundreds of people for all of the options, including

00:24:29   the best option that nobody else does, which is allowing carrot to force monochrome complications

00:24:36   on the watch.

00:24:37   It's great and improves the looks tremendously.

00:24:42   So Carrot Weather is there.

00:24:44   I have the date on the bottom.

00:24:47   And then I sort of didn't really need another complication, but it looks really weird if

00:24:51   you just if you're missing one of those slots.

00:24:53   And so I tried to find something that was useful but also didn't have text on it.

00:24:58   And the other one that I'm using is the timer, which is genuinely handy because it's the

00:25:01   only one on the watch that I do sometimes go to like, tap and do a thing with.

00:25:06   I mean, I'm like, I don't want to talk to the watch

00:25:08   to set a timer.

00:25:09   So those are the ones that I have there,

00:25:13   but it really has been this battle

00:25:15   of trying to make this watch face

00:25:17   not look like a terrible, ugly mess.

00:25:22   And I just think whoever is in charge of the design

00:25:27   of complications and watch faces

00:25:29   has just some very strange aesthetic preferences.

00:25:34   Like I can't believe how often they really intensely want to have lots of text on the

00:25:41   screen in places it doesn't seem to make any sense and other places where there's no text

00:25:48   where you would want some.

00:25:50   On the bottom there where I have the day and the date, it's amazing how many watch faces

00:25:55   when you select the date complication don't give you any ability to see what day of the

00:25:59   week it is.

00:26:00   Just the number.

00:26:01   Yeah, it's just the number.

00:26:02   watch face enjoy this number." But that's typical watch design.

00:26:06   Oh yeah. Which, again, it's like you don't have to

00:26:10   be tied to that because it's a computer, it's not a watch. Like, it is possible, there

00:26:15   are watches that do it, but it's an incredibly complex mechanism.

00:26:19   If you have to mechanically express the day of the week in a watch, like, that is a hell

00:26:23   of a job, right? It's not easy to do. Do you not like the corner ones then? Because

00:26:28   that would keep the stuff out of the face.

00:26:31   - So the problem with the corner ones

00:26:34   is they just strike me as so much more ugly,

00:26:38   or they have weird, unnecessary text,

00:26:41   or you run into the problem of like,

00:26:43   if I have the omni-focus complication at the top,

00:26:47   complications above that make things

00:26:51   so much harder to read then, because again,

00:26:53   all the corner complications seem very word-focused,

00:26:57   Like they want to show you words.

00:27:00   And this is the way that I found to try to make it

00:27:03   the simplest visually,

00:27:05   but it does have this weird trade-off

00:27:08   that the hands are going over the center complications.

00:27:11   And it's also so strange that it genuinely looks better

00:27:14   if you just do it in monochrome in the accessibility,

00:27:17   but you know, it has too much of a trade-off.

00:27:19   And again, I'm not, I'm fine with this,

00:27:26   But I can say I'm just deeply frustrated

00:27:29   that there's really only like six different kinds

00:27:33   of watch face and that almost half a decade

00:27:38   into the Apple Watch existing,

00:27:39   this is really the first new watch face to come along

00:27:45   since the very beginning that's even remotely useful.

00:27:50   That's not just like, here's a picture

00:27:53   or here's a kaleidoscope.

00:27:55   Okay, I'm really trying to hold back

00:27:57   'cause I don't wanna get into all of the thousands

00:27:59   of details, but that's,

00:28:00   I'm reasonably pleased with this,

00:28:03   but I'm also deeply frustrated at the watch face limitations.

00:28:08   Like, I'll give you one example with this watch face

00:28:12   about strange decisions around color.

00:28:15   So you'll notice that the second hand is red.

00:28:19   Now, one of the things is like,

00:28:21   I don't even know why I need a second hand on this watch.

00:28:23   I don't care, it doesn't add anything,

00:28:24   it just always gets in the way.

00:28:26   You can change the second hand to be a different color,

00:28:31   but then it also changes the color of the whole ring

00:28:34   around the exterior of the watch.

00:28:36   - Right, which is not necessary.

00:28:38   - Which is not necessary,

00:28:39   and they don't give you white as an option.

00:28:43   So it's like if you want a white ring around the edge,

00:28:47   you have to have a red second hand.

00:28:49   The closest you can get is something they call soft white,

00:28:54   but then the contrast of soft white is like half as much

00:28:57   as regular white on black.

00:28:59   So it's like, who made the decision

00:29:01   that you can't just have a white second hand

00:29:04   without also tying it to this other decision?

00:29:08   And there's so many things on the watch that are like that.

00:29:10   It's like, oh yeah, you can have this,

00:29:12   but it also comes with this terribly annoying

00:29:15   other compromise that seems unnecessary.

00:29:19   It's very strange.

00:29:19   - Yeah, I think they're gonna continue

00:29:22   having these problems for a long time.

00:29:23   The design of the watch UI feels vastly more personal than other parts, than other software

00:29:35   that Apple designs.

00:29:37   And I think this comes with wearing something on your body.

00:29:41   You kind of want to choose it more.

00:29:43   And I think people are more likely to get frustrated with the way that this thing looks

00:29:48   than they would with how the widget screen in iOS looks.

00:29:52   - Yeah, it's a totally fair comparison,

00:29:55   because sure, there's many things about my phone

00:29:58   that I would want them to look differently.

00:30:00   See the last episode where I went through great effort

00:30:02   to get rid of all the words, been below the icons.

00:30:06   But it doesn't feel the same in the way this does.

00:30:10   That like a watch is so much more of a personal,

00:30:15   a personal aesthetic choice.

00:30:18   And yeah, it just seems,

00:30:22   I don't think it's good that everyone gets locked into these very few watch faces.

00:30:27   And just informally surveying my friends who have Apple Watches, everybody's using like

00:30:34   basically two of the watch faces, right?

00:30:37   It's like that's not a good sign.

00:30:39   There should be a whole bunch of different watch faces that everybody uses.

00:30:42   But if you want to have any kind of information display, you're bullied into just like two

00:30:47   or three usable choices.

00:30:49   All of that complaining aside, I do really love the bigger watch and I really, really

00:30:56   love having the OmniFocus complication on the face.

00:31:01   It's a really big deal and I think this is – the way I like to try to think about technology

00:31:07   is, "Oh, this thing should be adding something to my life.

00:31:12   This should be helping me be better in some way."

00:31:17   And this is a great example of like the OmniFocus complication on the watch and always just

00:31:22   seeing it there even if I don't follow it perfectly it that subtle reminder from the

00:31:28   past of like this is the thing that you should be doing now is is great and and super instructive.

00:31:35   This episode of Cortex is brought to you by HelloFresh the meal kit delivery service that

00:31:41   shops plans and delivers step by step recipes and pre measured ingredients so you can just

00:31:46   cook, eat and enjoy. There are three plans to choose from, classic, veggie and family.

00:31:52   And you won't need to spend all night in the kitchen because recipes only take around 30

00:31:56   minutes to prepare. Having everything delivered to you means you can spend less time meal planning

00:32:01   and grocery shopping every week and instead spend that time on the things that you love.

00:32:06   Everything is delivered right to your door in recyclable insulated packaging. Even amidst

00:32:11   It's the after school chaos. HelloFresh's meal kits make it easy to decide what to do

00:32:16   for dinner, so you can look forward to your delivery knowing dinner just got so much easier.

00:32:20   Alright, I want to tell you a little story. I have been a HelloFresh customer for over

00:32:25   three years. My wife Adina and I, we weren't married then but we were living together,

00:32:31   we were kind of getting stuck in a rut. I didn't know how to cook and I knew very

00:32:37   little about the food in the world. I wasn't very experienced with eating in general,

00:32:42   and I would kind of like not really want to try new things. But we were getting frustrated with

00:32:49   having the same stuff to eat all the time, and I'd seen HelloFresh around, I'd seen it advertised,

00:32:53   and I decided I would give it a go. We have been getting a HelloFresh box every single week for

00:32:58   the last three years since. HelloFresh has changed my life. I don't say that very lightly,

00:33:05   I absolutely 100% mean it.

00:33:08   I now know how to cook lots of recipes.

00:33:11   There are HelloFresh recipes that we repeat because we love them so much

00:33:15   because you get the recipe cards.

00:33:17   They also have a great app which has step by step videos and stuff

00:33:20   so you can keep it going yourself.

00:33:21   But we have the cards and now there's a bunch of meals that I just recook.

00:33:25   There are so many things that excite me now when we go onto the website

00:33:29   every week and pick what meals we want from the selection.

00:33:32   There is something kind of amazing about being shown a selection of meals and you have to choose

00:33:37   and every single time there's something that I've never eaten before but I am so much more willing

00:33:42   to try stuff now because I always like what HelloFresh send me even if it's something

00:33:47   completely new. I've never hated a HelloFresh recipe and this is three years of we do three

00:33:53   meals a week with them and I now am so much more adventurous with the food that I eat because I'm

00:33:59   and being introduced to new things,

00:34:01   but also I am comfortable cooking.

00:34:04   I love to cook and that's because of HelloFresh.

00:34:06   It has taught me some skills that are genuinely valuable

00:34:10   and really opened my mind up to some of the food

00:34:12   that's out there in the world.

00:34:14   If you feel like you don't have enough variation

00:34:17   in the food that you're eating,

00:34:19   or if you just think you'd wanna try something new,

00:34:22   or if you're fed up of doing meal planning,

00:34:24   especially if you have a young family, right,

00:34:26   I'm sure you're very busy all the time,

00:34:28   This is something that you really, really should try.

00:34:31   And you can get a great deal

00:34:33   because you listened to this show.

00:34:34   You can get a total of $60 off.

00:34:36   That is $20 off your first three boxes.

00:34:39   So it's $20 off your first three boxes

00:34:41   at $60 in total savings.

00:34:43   But go to hellofresh.com/cortex60 right now.

00:34:48   That's basically six meals for free.

00:34:50   Just go to hellofresh.com/cortex60

00:34:53   and you can get that great deal.

00:34:55   Please try it.

00:34:56   Our thanks to HelloFresh for their support of this show and all of Relay FM.

00:35:00   Can you remind me the name of your theme for this year?

00:35:05   This isn't a joke.

00:35:07   I've just genuinely forgotten.

00:35:09   You were so happy when I announced it Myke.

00:35:12   It's the year of order.

00:35:15   Order.

00:35:16   That's what it was.

00:35:17   So you I think have made some changes in your life this year that I don't think

00:35:22   you were expecting to make when you created the year of order.

00:35:25   How do you feel like where we are now like approaching the end of the calendar year?

00:35:32   Do you feel like that the things that you're going through right now with leaving the internet

00:35:37   are a part of the Year of Order? Is it a part of something else? Like do you feel that these

00:35:41   this is matching up?

00:35:46   Well we're not allowed to talk about upcoming themes.

00:35:52   No.

00:35:53   Even though this is the time of year that everybody wants to talk about it.

00:35:55   spoilers.

00:35:56   Jonathon: Leaving the internet to me is a very perfect bridge project is the way I'll

00:36:06   put it. It's not part of the year of order and it's not part of the next thing. It's

00:36:14   very much a connective tissue between these two different things.

00:36:21   Cool. That's a Yelly themed teaser then. So how is the Year of Order going still? Like are you still working within that in any way?

00:36:33   Well... Oh Myke, I feel like you're pushing me... you're pushing me into this thing. You're pushing me into this thing.

00:36:40   Not intentionally.

00:36:41   No, I know you're not. That's why, you know, it's okay. But there have been a bunch of things this year that were very unexpected and not predicted at the start of the Year of Order.

00:37:02   But it's also, I haven't spoken about these things because it's that thing that we've discussed where you have to have some boundary between what is personal life and then what is public when you do work in the public eye.

00:37:27   guy. And so yeah, like there's a bunch of things that in theory would have been interesting or good

00:37:35   updates for the Year of Order as the year has gone on. But I haven't wanted to talk about them

00:37:42   because the things themselves feel to me like this is on the personal side of like, there have to be

00:37:50   boundaries in my life. And so this thing like, oh, yeah, even though it's a big deal, like, I'm

00:37:56   I'm just deciding that this is not a public topic of conversation.

00:38:03   But yeah, knowing if I could rewind the clock and know in advance how the year was going

00:38:12   to go, I don't think I would have picked Year of Order as the theme for the upcoming

00:38:19   year.

00:38:20   I would have been like, "You know what?

00:38:21   Let's do that a different time.

00:38:22   Let's not do that in this year in particular."

00:38:24   Right, and my assumption on this would be, again, knowing a little bit about how your

00:38:30   year has gone, there's just stuff you can't put order to.

00:38:36   That is an excellent way to put it. There's been a bunch of stuff that order cannot be

00:38:39   put to.

00:38:40   However, I think my challenge would be that maybe it would have gone, it would have been

00:38:45   even more chaotic if you weren't already in the order mindset. Like maybe the beginning

00:38:51   of the year, you maybe put some stuff in order, maybe helped you deal with everything else.

00:38:57   Nothing terrible, by the way. You've just had a lot going on. So maybe you've been

00:39:03   able to deal with that a little bit better.

00:39:05   Well, yeah, if we're doing a preview of the year review, for sure, that has been the

00:39:12   case. And the clearest case for me where it made the biggest difference is with a lot

00:39:17   of the travel stuff that by having Year of Order as the theme, I was, it allowed me to

00:39:27   reframe travel as, instead of constantly thinking of business travel as these one-off things

00:39:36   that are hugely disruptive events, to reframe them as, "No, this is part of your life now,

00:39:43   and this is probably part of your life

00:39:45   for a horizon of a few more years maybe.

00:39:49   And by reframing that as these are just part of life now,

00:39:54   I feel like I made a lot better,

00:39:59   more orderful kind of travel decisions that,

00:40:04   while travel's never not incredibly tiring,

00:40:08   that didn't push me to like destroyed

00:40:11   at the end of traveling.

00:40:13   Like this summer was way busy, again with a lot of sort of business stuff, but I was very pleased that I made a lot of decisions that revolved around saying no to opportunities to try to preserve some kind of regular schedule while traveling.

00:40:36   And it's not an easy thing to do in the moment

00:40:40   because you're traveling

00:40:41   because there's some good reason to travel.

00:40:44   But I can't say I regretted saying no

00:40:49   to any of those opportunities

00:40:50   because particularly for the summer,

00:40:53   it made the whole of the summer

00:40:55   not as catastrophically draining

00:40:58   as it had been like two years ago.

00:41:01   So yeah, for sure,

00:41:04   thinking of this in terms of year of order,

00:41:06   of like you can't have a chaotic schedule

00:41:09   for six weeks of travel in a row.

00:41:11   Like you have to try to have some kind of order here,

00:41:14   totally made a difference and like mitigated

00:41:17   a bunch of problems from the previous year.

00:41:21   But like on the much more positive side of the year of order,

00:41:26   so like not so much mitigation of disaster,

00:41:29   but part of this whole idea of the year of order

00:41:33   was try to do things in the order

00:41:37   that you think of them as important.

00:41:40   You decide on a schedule

00:41:41   and try to stick to that schedule.

00:41:43   And I don't quite wanna say

00:41:47   that this is related to going away from the internet.

00:41:50   I don't think the data is in yet,

00:41:53   but boy, have I had a month

00:41:55   where I feel like it's been a tremendous success

00:41:58   for the Year of Order.

00:41:59   that September until now has been much, much better on average of like, what are the things

00:42:09   that you're supposed to do and actually doing them in order?

00:42:12   - But doesn't this seem like the logical conclusion though?

00:42:16   Because you gave yourself more time, so wouldn't you have then more time to do things?

00:42:24   - Of course, of course, Myke. I don't disagree there.

00:42:27   I'm simply saying like what I don't want to do is I don't want to draw the conclusion yet because

00:42:32   in my life I've always gone through periods like this where right you're more or less orderful like

00:42:41   you're more on top of work and you're less on top of work you know I always think of it as like you

00:42:46   have periods of bounty and bounty is always followed by a season of fallow and yeah that's

00:42:51   That's just the way it works.

00:42:53   And sure, this seems like a much longer period

00:42:58   of bounty than normal,

00:43:01   but it's still not such an extreme departure

00:43:04   that I can say, oh, something's totally different

00:43:05   and it must have changed.

00:43:07   So that's why I'm just, I'm like,

00:43:09   I'm being overly cautious because I also don't like,

00:43:12   I don't wanna be the guy who based on not enough time

00:43:15   and not enough data is like, oh, I've left the internet

00:43:18   and now enlightened and everything is great.

00:43:21   Like this is, that's not how it goes.

00:43:22   - Yeah, and I'm pleased that you're approaching it

00:43:24   that way, right, 'cause it would be silly.

00:43:26   It would be silly to just be like, oh, fixed it.

00:43:29   - Yeah, exactly, it'd be super dumb.

00:43:31   And that's part of the whole reason why I wanted to do this

00:43:33   for a really long stretch of time.

00:43:35   - 'Cause you may, and you will, develop new habits

00:43:37   that will take up time in the same way

00:43:39   that internet would have taken up time.

00:43:41   Do they end up being better for you in the long run?

00:43:43   Like that's what you need to work out.

00:43:44   - Yeah, exactly.

00:43:45   And that's why I just want to be cautious about it.

00:43:49   But the other thing that does coincide with this is a bunch of the things that have happened

00:43:54   this year to which order cannot be put are also now behind me.

00:43:59   And so it has been like, okay, it's easier now to actually try to put this into action,

00:44:07   because I don't have these other things in my life.

00:44:09   And I know I've mentioned it on the show before, but I find something existentially

00:44:18   terrifying about having a day where you wake up and it's as successful as a day can possibly

00:44:27   be where you feel like, "I have a list of things that I want to do.

00:44:31   My watch is showing them to me in order and I'm going through and I'm ticking off the

00:44:35   the things and I get to the end of the day and I think, "God, what a satisfying day

00:44:40   this was." I could not imagine this day having realistically gone differently. Like,

00:44:48   I couldn't have been more productive than I was, which doesn't necessarily mean that

00:44:51   I was using every single hour, like, towards work, but it just means, like, the day could

00:44:56   not have been a better day. Like, this is how days should be. But then also realizing

00:45:01   how few things on your infinite list of things

00:45:05   to get through you can realistically do.

00:45:08   And I'm coming off of like 10 days in a row

00:45:12   where I have just been nailing it like out of the park

00:45:16   every day, like bam, home run, get up, look at my list,

00:45:20   work through the things,

00:45:21   like I'm going to the office when I should be,

00:45:23   going to the gym when I should be,

00:45:24   after I'm just like reading the books,

00:45:26   I'm doing all of these things and like boom, boom, boom,

00:45:28   here's exactly how I imagined a day should be.

00:45:30   And it's like, bam, hitting it out of the park every time.

00:45:33   But I look at my list on OmniFocus

00:45:35   when I get to my weekly review and realize like,

00:45:38   boy, I haven't made it past the like top two or three

00:45:43   folders of like here are the most important things

00:45:48   in 10 days worth of like,

00:45:50   I can't imagine better days in my life.

00:45:52   So I just mentioned it 'cause it's an interesting example

00:45:57   to me of like really being forced to confront this reality in life that the selection of

00:46:08   what you work on is just so important and really coming eye to eye with the reality

00:46:17   of how many projects can a person work on, and it's far fewer than you think it is.

00:46:27   And like recognizing that I have a ton of these projects that's like, even if I had

00:46:34   three months in a row like this, I'm never going to get down to these projects at the

00:46:38   bottom of this list.

00:46:41   So yeah, I find it existentially terrifying to really, to face that so head on when things

00:46:50   are going well.

00:46:52   I'm sure you've spoken about this before.

00:46:57   Yeah, but that's why I don't want to claim like going off the internet as being related

00:47:04   to this.

00:47:05   Yeah.

00:47:06   Because I know that like sometimes I have these periods where it's like, bam, everything

00:47:09   is going great.

00:47:11   This has just been an unusually long period, but it's still the same thing, and it's

00:47:17   never any less terrifying.

00:47:19   Well maybe there's something interesting there in that even with leaving the internet,

00:47:26   you still will feel like this, which I think is talking about something that is maybe more

00:47:30   core to you in that potentially you are prone to taking on more than you can cope with?

00:47:38   So a great example of this is,

00:47:40   I mentioned Project Golem back in January

00:47:46   and boy, this week has really made me think about how

00:47:51   this thing that I want to do,

00:47:54   that I've wanted to do for years

00:47:57   and have kind of like tinkered around with in various ways,

00:48:00   it's hard to imagine

00:48:07   having genuine mental space for this in my life.

00:48:12   And it's like, well, maybe this is one of those things

00:48:17   that it just has to go.

00:48:20   Or at best, it could be a thing that is

00:48:25   alternated with other projects,

00:48:27   but then that means really accepting

00:48:30   what are the trade-offs in terms of

00:48:32   sacrifices from other projects.

00:48:35   But it's just, I don't know,

00:48:37   it's interesting to think about.

00:48:38   There's this funny feeling that,

00:48:42   oh, there's so much time in the world.

00:48:45   But in any particular day, there's not a lot of time.

00:48:49   And bringing projects to completion

00:48:54   means being able to put effort into them on a daily basis.

00:48:59   And so the selection is just so incredibly important.

00:49:04   Like you're just so much more limited than you think you are in terms of time.

00:49:07   Yeah, I've had some just items on my to-do list.

00:49:13   I just keep shifting at the moment.

00:49:15   Yeah.

00:49:16   One of them is looking to OmniFocus.

00:49:18   You know, I was right.

00:49:21   Like when in last episode, future editing Myke immediately downloaded

00:49:26   OmniFocus and started tinkering around with it a little bit more.

00:49:28   But like, you know, these are just those things where it's like, well,

00:49:31   that would be nice at some point, but just never really get to them.

00:49:35   I have quite a few things like that right now, which are like

00:49:38   rethinking some of my workflows and stuff,

00:49:42   thinking about some of the apps that I keep data in.

00:49:45   And if I want to change them or if there's maybe something better for me

00:49:49   than just using Apple Notes to collect all of that information.

00:49:52   And I'm toying around with that a little bit.

00:49:55   But it's one of those things where it's like, what I actually need to do

00:49:58   is sit down for like three hours and move the data.

00:50:01   - Right.

00:50:02   - But I just keep moving the task instead.

00:50:06   - Yeah, yeah.

00:50:07   And yeah, even I have the same thing

00:50:12   where I have a bunch of those little tasks,

00:50:13   which in theory are like flagged in my system of like,

00:50:17   oh, you should do this thing.

00:50:20   Or I don't know, even the ones that I feel really badly

00:50:24   about like a flagging item of you need to reply

00:50:27   to this person who got in touch with you.

00:50:29   And it's like, yes, I do need to do that,

00:50:33   but it's also hard to imagine when does this fit in

00:50:37   on a perfect day because there is an infinite time.

00:50:42   And it's like, yep, I've got a couple of those

00:50:43   where it's like, I'm gonna defer again until tomorrow,

00:50:46   and maybe there'll be time tomorrow,

00:50:47   even though realistically, I don't have any expectation

00:50:51   that there will be time for this tomorrow.

00:50:53   And yeah, it comes to a point of like,

00:50:57   when do you decide like, this is a thing

00:50:59   that is just never going to happen.

00:51:03   Kill this project out and say,

00:51:06   I'm just gonna accept it's just not gonna happen

00:51:09   and I'm not gonna keep deferring it

00:51:11   or coming to the end of the day and being like,

00:51:13   nope, I didn't get to the bottom of this list,

00:51:14   not even remotely.

00:51:15   - We haven't got our usual solution to this point.

00:51:20   - What do you mean?

00:51:21   Are we supposed to come up with a solution?

00:51:22   I'm not trying to come up with a solution.

00:51:25   I think what I'm trying to say here is,

00:51:29   almost a thing that like it's good for me to hear and I think is good for the listeners to hear.

00:51:35   It's like even if you're a person who carefully considers the projects that they commit to,

00:51:43   it's still very easy to overestimate how much can actually be done.

00:51:47   And I mean you know me Myke, I say no to a lot.

00:51:52   I mean it's not just that though, you say no to a lot of things that actually make financial

00:51:59   sense as well. You don't just say no because someone comes along with some harebrained

00:52:06   idea and you say no to things that most people would say yes to because they're sensible

00:52:13   to do. But you, and it's one of the things that I like about you is the, you consider

00:52:21   things differently to other people. And it's interesting to see that sometimes. The reasons

00:52:29   that you have for saying no to something. You're like, it's like, oh, well, this is

00:52:32   going to give you 10% more income. But it's like, well, but I don't want to do it.

00:52:37   Right.

00:52:38   And that's the different, people do things like that differently.

00:52:42   Yeah, I guess it's, I don't know, maybe it's sort of related to my feelings on this are

00:52:48   similar to the feelings of leaving the internet.

00:52:52   It's like, well, I feel like I'm a person who does a pretty good job of being very careful

00:52:57   about decisions and what I'm going to commit to and what I'm going to try to do.

00:53:01   And then still seeing that it's easy to overestimate how much can be done.

00:53:07   And in the similar way that I feel with the internet stuff that I've always been the

00:53:12   person who's super careful about what notifications I let into my life and what apps are installed

00:53:18   on my phone and when do I do things.

00:53:21   But I still felt like, oh, but the internet still got me even though among everyone I

00:53:27   know I'm at this extremely cautious end of things.

00:53:32   And then it's just like, oh, this is a thing we're thinking about for a while.

00:53:37   There's not necessarily any particular conclusion that's coming out of it.

00:53:42   Like there's no neat way to wrap up the topic.

00:53:45   But it's just something, it's just something worth thinking about and focusing on in life.

00:53:52   This episode of Cortex is brought to you by our friends at Casper.

00:53:57   Casper is the company focused on sleep.

00:54:00   And they're dedicated to making you exceptionally comfortable, one night at a time.

00:54:07   Now if you are a good cortex listener, you should be tracking your time so you have some

00:54:12   idea of how your life is being spent.

00:54:16   And ideally, one third of that life should be spent asleep.

00:54:22   If you're going to spend 33% of your time doing anything, you don't want to do it poorly.

00:54:28   You want to make sure it's the best.

00:54:31   And that's where Casper comes in.

00:54:33   Casper mattresses are perfectly designed for humans,

00:54:37   with engineering to soothe

00:54:38   and support your natural geometry.

00:54:41   It's got all the right support in all the right places.

00:54:44   How can a mattress be so comfortable?

00:54:47   They combine multiple supportive memory foam

00:54:49   for a quality mattress with just the right sink and bounce.

00:54:53   And their mattresses are designed and developed in the US

00:54:57   and their breathable design helps to regulate

00:54:59   your body temperature throughout the night.

00:55:01   Now, as you'll find out later in the show, sleep has gone up very high on my list of

00:55:07   priorities and that's one of the reasons why I sleep on a Casper.

00:55:11   It's just an incredibly comfortable mattress and, for bonus points, I didn't have to

00:55:17   leave the house to get it.

00:55:19   No, it was delivered right to my house in a box that I pulled apart and poof, out came

00:55:25   a mattress.

00:55:26   Now, sleep is important to you, even if you don't know it yet.

00:55:30   So you're going to order a Casper and you have no reason to worry because Casper is

00:55:36   so confident in their mattresses, they will give you 100 nights to try it.

00:55:42   That's right, a 100 night risk-free sleep on it trial.

00:55:46   You have absolutely nothing to lose.

00:55:49   So you can get $50 towards select mattresses by visiting casper.com/cortex and using Cortex

00:55:56   at checkout.

00:55:58   and conditions apply, that's casper.com/cortex and use code "CORTEX" at checkout. Thanks

00:56:05   to Casper for supporting the show, all of Real AFM, and helping me to get a good sleep

00:56:11   at night.

00:56:12   We have not visited the Cortex Book Club in a while, and I think that maybe on our next

00:56:17   episode we should do so. So would you like to set a book for us to read?

00:56:22   Oh, you're going to pin this on me, Myke?

00:56:24   Well, I don't choose them.

00:56:25   Do I choose them? No, I don't choose them.

00:56:26   I think you've always chosen them.

00:56:28   I think that's, no, that's wrong.

00:56:30   Don't put this on me, because as listeners will know,

00:56:35   the quality of the books may vary quite a lot, which is what happens.

00:56:40   Okay, so should we say that this book chose itself?

00:56:42   Like, how do we work this one out?

00:56:44   Yeah, let's say that.

00:56:45   I don't choose the books, man. The books choose me.

00:56:48   Yes, that's exactly right. The books choose me.

00:56:51   and looking around business books,

00:56:55   basically for titles that I recognize,

00:56:56   there's like, oh, that sounds familiar and famous.

00:56:59   And so one I have heard recommended from a bunch of people

00:57:04   is "The Effective Executive" by Peter Drucker.

00:57:08   - Okay.

00:57:09   - So that's gonna be Cortex Book Club for next time.

00:57:13   I know nothing about the book.

00:57:15   - So feel free to read it, right?

00:57:17   Feel free to read it if you want to.

00:57:19   - Yes, that's an excellent way to put it.

00:57:20   - Yeah, but if it's bad, it's not my fault.

00:57:24   If it's great, Cortex gets all the credit,

00:57:27   but if it's a terrible book, it's not Cortex's fault.

00:57:29   - Nothing to do with us.

00:57:30   (laughing)

00:57:31   Yeah, feel free to read it, you don't need to,

00:57:33   but you may have heard, or you probably have heard

00:57:36   one of our Book Club episodes by now.

00:57:38   I'll put a couple in the show notes in case you haven't,

00:57:41   but if you've heard one, you'll know that by and large,

00:57:43   you don't need to have read the book

00:57:45   to get something out of those episodes,

00:57:47   but if you have done that and like to do it,

00:57:49   then this is the next one that we're going to be doing on an episode soon. The next one,

00:57:56   but the next episode is soon.

00:57:58   Okay, yeah, sure. The next episode comes out when it comes out, Myke. That's when the next

00:58:03   episode comes out.

00:58:04   That's what I'm going with with soon, right? Like it's not next week, not the week after,

00:58:10   just soon.

00:58:11   Soon in great time.

00:58:14   Relative terms.

00:58:15   Yeah, not what people think of as soon. When people say soon, they think, "Oh, I'm not

00:58:19   to be able to read the book before then. Oh, you'll have time to read the book, don't worry.

00:58:22   Unless it's out already and this episode is in the future. You're listening to it, right?

00:58:25   You're catching up on it.

00:58:26   But now we're in a time paradox and like, you know what happens when we get there.

00:58:30   Right. What happens when we get there as we bail out and we go straight to Axe Cortex?

00:58:34   DJ and a million others asked, a lot of people asked this,

00:58:41   How did you get no names on your folders?

00:58:46   How did you get that to work?

00:58:49   - There are invisible ASCII characters

00:58:53   that if you just Google around for invisible character,

00:58:56   you will find websites that allow you to copy and paste

00:58:58   an invisible character.

00:59:00   And you can use that in all sorts of places

00:59:03   where websites or apps demand that you write text,

00:59:07   but you don't wanna.

00:59:07   You can put these invisible characters in it.

00:59:09   often tricks the system into thinking that you've written something, which is great,

00:59:14   and I will give Myke a shortcut that just copies an invisible character straight onto

00:59:19   your clipboard, which is what I've done just to make it easy.

00:59:22   C.F.D. asks, "With Grey away from certain media and Myke attempting to find he's in

00:59:28   a chill," which is a nice way to put what I'm doing right now, "how has sleep changed

00:59:33   for you both in the time since starting these things, if at all?"

00:59:37   Has it changed for you, Yoga Man?

00:59:39   No. Nothing.

00:59:41   Really?

00:59:41   My sleep stuff is like, I impose that upon myself, right?

00:59:45   Like I have created a construct in which I operate.

00:59:51   Like I'm not really giving anything the ability to change it.

00:59:56   [Laughter]

00:59:58   Can you elaborate on what exactly you mean by that strange sentence?

01:00:01   I know. It's like, you know, I wake up when I wake up based upon like what I'm doing on a day, right?

01:00:07   So like that's how, you know, I'll either wake up earlier or I'll wake up later depending on how busy a day is.

01:00:12   And I'll always go to sleep between like 1 and 3 a.m.

01:00:17   Because that's just when I like to watch YouTube videos or whatever.

01:00:21   I don't really pay attention to like, "Oh, I feel tired now, I'll go to bed."

01:00:26   You know? Like I'm kind of in this silly routine that I'm in.

01:00:33   I do because it provides me with enjoyment and also I hate laying in bed to go to sleep.

01:00:41   I hate it.

01:00:42   You only go to sleep when Morpheus catches you.

01:00:45   Exactly.

01:00:46   You're not leaping into the arms of sleep.

01:00:48   No, it's just, I just don't really like it.

01:00:52   Because I mean, I know this is probably horrific for you, but like I lay in bed and I think

01:00:56   too much and then it's just like for, you know, I know that like this is against kind

01:01:00   what you're doing right now, which is like allowing your brain to think more, totally

01:01:04   understand, but like it typically just doesn't leave me feeling good, like it just leaves

01:01:10   me feeling stressed.

01:01:11   That's why I was wondering if the yoga was making any difference in that, because that

01:01:16   was my memory when we last talked about sleep, that you have anxious thoughts at night sometimes,

01:01:20   and I thought, is the yoga helping with that?

01:01:23   Well I don't know, because I'm not allowing it, you know, like maybe it would, I don't

01:01:28   No, but I haven't allowed it to take an effect.

01:01:33   You should try focusing on the breath when you go to sleep, Myke.

01:01:36   Just as you're watching the YouTube videos in bed, focus on the breath.

01:01:39   You should give it a try.

01:01:40   I'm sure it would.

01:01:41   Yeah, it probably would help, but like, I'm not in a desire to make a change, you know?

01:01:46   No, I understand.

01:01:47   I kind of like that time.

01:01:49   Yeah, and if it works for you, like it works for you.

01:01:51   For now.

01:01:52   What about you then?

01:01:53   Ugh.

01:01:54   Again, you're pushing me up against these boundaries with your questions today, Myke.

01:01:58   It's not my question.

01:02:00   You select the question.

01:02:01   Or the question selects the show.

01:02:03   Is that how it works for Ask Cortex?

01:02:05   I don't know.

01:02:06   Sure.

01:02:07   Yeah, so I've had this interesting relationship with sleep.

01:02:12   And when I came back from traveling this summer,

01:02:16   one of the things to which order could not be put

01:02:21   was waiting for me upon arrival.

01:02:23   And let's just say for the whole of the month

01:02:28   of August, I was experiencing horrific semi-random interruptions in my sleep for like a time

01:02:41   period and a duration that I had just never experienced before.

01:02:46   What are you laughing at over there, Myke?

01:02:49   Nothing.

01:02:50   Nothing at all.

01:02:51   Nothing.

01:02:52   And man, let me, let me tell you that I have, I have never been one who deals well with disruptions to my sleep schedule.

01:03:06   I've always been aware, like this is a thing I seem more sensitive to than, than most people, but boy, I've never, I've never had sustained disruption like this.

01:03:17   And I think, perhaps without exaggeration, that this most recent August was the least productive I have been during the entire adult life that I have lived thus far.

01:03:34   It was one of those things where I didn't even like quite realize how poorly I was doing because I lacked the mental facilities to be able to recognize it.

01:03:45   But, you know, I caught myself doing things like making coffee in the morning because

01:03:50   of course I need coffee and then like doop-a-doop-a-doo, like doing all these little pieces and getting

01:03:56   it all ready together.

01:03:57   And then somehow, I don't know why, but I would microwave the container of cream that

01:04:04   I intended to put in the coffee when the coffee didn't need heating up at all and obviously

01:04:10   the coffee should go in the microwave.

01:04:12   But I would be suddenly faced with, "Oh, there's a pot of boiling cream in the microwave.

01:04:17   And I did this!"

01:04:18   Right?

01:04:19   That doesn't seem dangerous.

01:04:21   No, it was, but like, a number of those things happened, which, toward the end of August,

01:04:26   which really snapped me out of like, "Whoa, dude, you are operating at this terrible mental

01:04:33   capacity and it's entirely through sleep disruption."

01:04:37   And it's actually interesting.

01:04:39   So I ended up reading a bunch of stuff about sleep, which I think I haven't done since

01:04:44   I was a teenager.

01:04:45   And it turns out like, oh, we actually know a whole bunch through science now about, you

01:04:48   know, what sleep is doing.

01:04:49   And like way more seems to be known now than whenever the last time I looked into this.

01:04:54   And I really found my mind changed on this topic where I don't, I've always just

01:05:06   thought of sleep as, "Oh, this is something that you need to do, and if you don't do

01:05:10   it, obviously you suffer the next day," but whatever.

01:05:13   Like it's just this background thing in your life.

01:05:16   And after reading a bunch of the current science on sleep, I much more think of having disruptive

01:05:24   sleep as a much more direct negative health consequence in your life.

01:05:32   it's almost like being exposed to secondhand smoke or something.

01:05:36   Like the science on what happens to you when you don't sleep regularly and well is just terrifying.

01:05:41   And so I have, on the order of things that are important to me,

01:05:48   I've basically put trying to have a regular uninterrupted sleep schedule at the very top.

01:05:53   This is the thing that should be one of the most important things that you're

01:05:58   aiming for on a like a "what is a good day" basis because if you don't have this, everything else

01:06:07   becomes way, way harder. So we can put this under the umbrella of Year of Order because I have

01:06:15   dramatically realized much more so the importance of regular sleep in my life and I've elevated it

01:06:27   thusly in my system. So go to sleep at regular times, Myke.

01:06:32   They are regular for me.

01:06:33   Brian wants to know, "If you could have a Roomba-like robot that automated

01:06:40   another boring household chore, what chore would it be?"

01:06:44   Would you have to work in the constructs of reality here,

01:06:50   or can it just be like a robot that does it?

01:06:52   Why don't you tell me what you're thinking and then we can decide.

01:06:55   I want the dishwasher to be able to collect the dishes inside of itself automatically.

01:07:00   Like it should be able to go around and pick up the dishes and put the dishes in it and

01:07:04   then put the dishes back.

01:07:06   That's what I would want my dishwasher to do.

01:07:08   Now obviously…

01:07:09   That seems too complicated.

01:07:11   I feel like you could only have one of those.

01:07:13   Either the dishwasher could collect the stuff and wash it or the dishwasher could wash it

01:07:17   and put it back in a specific place.

01:07:19   Well look, you know, either would be an improvement but it's the management dishwashers.

01:07:25   amazing but I want them to do more steps and loading the dishwasher I hate it and taking

01:07:32   things out of the dishwasher I also hate it. It's fiddly. It's awful. So I think the reason

01:07:39   that Roombas are the only household robot that exists is because this is the only constrained

01:07:46   problem domain that can be solved with the current level of technology.

01:07:49   Well the other one which is the mopping robot right but like it's the same thing.

01:07:53   - Yeah, but it's the same thing, yeah.

01:07:54   Or the lawn mowing robot, they're all the same thing.

01:07:57   - They're all the same.

01:07:58   - There's a space that you need to traverse

01:08:00   and it has boundaries and you're just gonna have

01:08:02   a little thing go around and traverse it.

01:08:05   Like in the world of automation,

01:08:07   household chores will be the last thing to fall

01:08:10   because you need to build an Android to do it

01:08:12   because every house is just so peculiar and particular

01:08:16   and every task is so futsy that it turns out

01:08:20   that this is actually like a deeply human task

01:08:24   is being able to keep your house in order.

01:08:26   So, but anyway, I would want the dishes.

01:08:28   Myke, what are you gonna realistically propose

01:08:31   as the thing?

01:08:33   - A dishwasher.

01:08:34   - You don't have a dishwasher?

01:08:35   - No, you know I don't have a dishwasher.

01:08:37   - I just can't think of it because it's, no,

01:08:41   it's not that I can't fathom it,

01:08:42   it's just, it's so horrible to think about

01:08:45   that I block it from my mind

01:08:46   that you don't have a dishwasher

01:08:48   and you have to wash the dishes by hand.

01:08:50   I just don't, I don't like to think of you in that way.

01:08:53   It makes me sad.

01:08:53   (laughing)

01:08:56   - I don't have one.

01:08:57   We do want one, but to get one,

01:09:00   we need to reorganize the entire kitchen to fit it in.

01:09:03   We have space for it, but we can't just put it in.

01:09:07   Like that's not how our kitchen is built.

01:09:09   So like, this is like one of those future projects,

01:09:12   'cause we would get a lot of value

01:09:14   out of having a dishwasher.

01:09:15   But it's a very, you know, it's a very simple robot,

01:09:19   but it's like a machine that we could bring into our home

01:09:22   that would take away a significant chore,

01:09:25   which is washing the dishes.

01:09:27   'Cause as people who cook,

01:09:29   we generate a lot of dishwashing.

01:09:32   - Right.

01:09:32   - So every day, there are multiple pots and pans

01:09:37   that need to be washed.

01:09:39   - Right.

01:09:40   - And so it's a job, it is a significant job

01:09:42   every single day for us.

01:09:44   So it would be great to have a dishwasher.

01:09:46   - Yeah, I mean, as someone who orders a lot of food,

01:09:49   also generates quite a lot of dishes because you have to put the food on the dish and then

01:09:54   you eat it.

01:09:55   You could just eat it out of the packaging, man.

01:09:58   Come on.

01:09:59   You could go the paper plate lifestyle.

01:10:02   Paper… unless you're having a barbecue, I think the paper plates make the food taste

01:10:07   weird.

01:10:08   I don't like eating off paper plates.

01:10:09   It's gross.

01:10:10   Do you think this is a genuine thing or like a mental thing?

01:10:13   I think it's a mental thing.

01:10:14   It's totally a mental thing.

01:10:16   I'm not saying that there's paper molecules in the food.

01:10:19   You know, if someone puts a piece of paper on your tongue,

01:10:24   there's a feeling like, ah, you don't like that?

01:10:26   Eating food off a paper plate, unless it's at a barbecue,

01:10:31   kind of feels like that to me.

01:10:32   - Sounds like you might be licking the plates.

01:10:34   - I'm not licking the plates.

01:10:35   - That might be a problem.

01:10:36   - No, I'm not licking the plates, I'm just saying.

01:10:39   It's gross.

01:10:40   And dishes are terrible.

01:10:42   So I'm glad at least we both agree the same topic

01:10:44   is the clear big problem in the house.

01:10:46   - Stishes. - Stishes.

01:10:48   - This question comes from a fish in a cloud,

01:10:50   which is a great, that's just a great username.

01:10:53   I feel like you're never actually free

01:10:55   from someone controlling what you do in your job.

01:10:58   For self-employed people, it's the audiences or clients

01:11:01   that influence what you do and you get caught out by

01:11:03   when things aren't done right.

01:11:04   You're always sort of working for someone.

01:11:07   Have you and Gray ever felt like you were pressured

01:11:09   into a decision by the audience?

01:11:12   or was there a point where you had to make a difficult decision based on audience responses?

01:11:18   Let's tackle this in two parts. Part one is the idea of always having a boss. Because

01:11:27   like, it's totally true. There's always someone, pretty much I think, that you are attempting

01:11:35   to please. Which I guess is really all you're ever really doing for a boss anyway, right?

01:11:40   you're trying to make the boss happy, so the boss gives you a thumbs up, and/or promotion,

01:11:45   and/or more money.

01:11:46   ALICE: There is this idea that everybody's always working for someone.

01:11:51   I think that's... it's true?

01:11:54   I've never really liked that phrasing of it, but it is getting at an idea.

01:12:00   [laughter]

01:12:01   MATT: The thing is, it's like... it is on this like accordion scale, I think, of this

01:12:06   sort of stuff, where it's depending on what you do, there's even more or less of it.

01:12:10   And the things that these people want are even more or less and/or your ability to control

01:12:16   and influence changes.

01:12:18   So like for example, I hear about people that do stuff that like we do that is advertising

01:12:23   supported, I often hear the refrain of like, "Oh, well your boss is now the advertiser."

01:12:28   Which is like, I understand why people think that, but the level of control that we have

01:12:33   in that is very different to the level of control that you have, or you may have with

01:12:37   a traditional boss where it is more of a relationship of give and take, where we still get to choose

01:12:44   who we want to work with, we still get to debate how we talk about what we want to talk

01:12:48   about, and then we also get to come to an agreement on pricing. And then there's like

01:12:52   a structure that everybody works within, which is very different to just like your average,

01:12:57   like you now work for this company, here is your boss. I think in most situations, at

01:13:03   least that I've ever worked in. There's way less give and take and a way more just like you're

01:13:07   being told what to do and you work within the defined structure then you have the ability to

01:13:12   mold that structure. But yes, of course, right? Like we are still producing something which is

01:13:19   the sponsor read that they must be happy with because they're paying us, right? Like I get that.

01:13:24   And then there's the other thing of like, well, now as a person who creates something,

01:13:29   the audience is the boss. That is also an idea, right, that you are now working for

01:13:35   the people that consume it. And that, and again, going into the second part of that question,

01:13:41   that like, now we're working for the listener.

01:13:46   Yeah, like, you're totally right that there's this spectrum of things. And I think that's

01:13:55   partly why I don't like the phrasing like, oh, you know, everybody's always working for somebody.

01:13:59   It's like, yeah, because the boss is so clear,

01:14:03   like the boss is the person who can tell you something,

01:14:05   tell you to do something,

01:14:07   and basically your only choice is to do it or to quit.

01:14:09   - They're higher of fire, that's what they do.

01:14:11   They hire you and they confire you.

01:14:12   And that's when it's like,

01:14:14   well then when you're not in that structure anymore,

01:14:17   no one can fire me, right?

01:14:19   No one can fire you.

01:14:21   It becomes messier.

01:14:23   - It becomes messier because what's happening now

01:14:29   is the thing that that idea is getting at is,

01:14:34   if you are participating in the economy,

01:14:38   what you now have is like this coming together

01:14:42   of what can you offer people and what do people want,

01:14:46   but on what terms do those people want those things?

01:14:51   And that's why when someone says something like,

01:14:53   oh, the bosses are now the advertisers,

01:14:55   like you're working for the advertisers

01:14:56   or you're working for the audience,

01:14:57   It's like, well, it's not the same

01:15:02   because now it's much more like it's an interaction of forces.

01:15:07   The audience one is a particularly interesting example

01:15:12   because I'll say this and I'm trying to communicate an idea,

01:15:17   but the audience isn't the boss

01:15:22   even though you're making something for the audience.

01:15:26   Like you hope that they like the thing.

01:15:29   But having done this for a number of years,

01:15:32   there's an interesting phenomenon I've noticed repeatedly

01:15:36   where the audience often asks for things

01:15:41   that you know they wouldn't actually like.

01:15:44   And that's a situation where it becomes very clear

01:15:48   that's like, there's this interaction that's occurring

01:15:52   where if your boss tells you to do something

01:15:55   that you as the employee knows like,

01:15:57   "Boy, this isn't gonna work out

01:15:58   and the boss isn't gonna like it at all."

01:15:59   It's like, well, it doesn't matter

01:16:01   'cause you still have to make it

01:16:02   because that's the relationship of like

01:16:03   the boss and someone else.

01:16:05   But it's just interesting sometimes

01:16:06   when I've read comments and people ask for certain things

01:16:10   and you're like, "I know, I'm pretty confident

01:16:13   that if I gave you this thing,

01:16:14   you wouldn't actually like it."

01:16:16   - I have a really good example of this

01:16:18   that I think we can talk about that won't upset anyone.

01:16:21   - Okay.

01:16:22   - Wanting the unedited show.

01:16:24   Oh my god, that's a perfect example.

01:16:26   Yeah, that's a perfect example.

01:16:28   - People, we get this every now and then,

01:16:30   people say they would love to hear,

01:16:31   or they would even pay for the unedited episodes of Cortex.

01:16:36   - Yeah. - You don't want them.

01:16:38   Because they're full of the stuff

01:16:40   that we even think is boring, or we did wrong.

01:16:43   Like, no one wants to hear that.

01:16:45   Like, you may wanna hear it like, for 10 minutes,

01:16:49   but you're not gonna enjoy it.

01:16:50   Like, there's a reason that we put the time in

01:16:53   to edit this show. And I would say that if you enjoy this show, it's because of the edit that we do to it.

01:16:59   Like there's a reason that we cut the stuff that we can't. I don't think that in the long run anyone would

01:17:05   particularly enjoy to hear unedited episodes. And now I wait for the flood of people that tell me that they want it,

01:17:12   but like, just trust us on this one. You don't want that.

01:17:17   - Yeah, that's a perfect example.

01:17:19   And it is a particularly interesting example

01:17:21   because of how often people will say like,

01:17:23   "Put the unedited episodes up

01:17:25   as part of the relay membership thing."

01:17:26   And it's like, "I'll happily become a member."

01:17:28   It's like, but it's such an interesting thing.

01:17:30   And then people go like, "Why don't they do it?

01:17:32   Because they just get extra money for less work.

01:17:35   They could just put up the unedited."

01:17:36   But this is exactly where it's this strange interaction.

01:17:40   Like, we're not gonna put it up

01:17:42   because I think it would actually make things worse.

01:17:44   Like, you don't want it.

01:17:46   It's not interesting and we wouldn't want to take your money for a thing that we're very confident you wouldn't enjoy anyway, even if you think you would.

01:17:57   Yeah, that is just an absolutely perfect example of this phenomenon.

01:18:02   But there is the give and take, though, right?

01:18:05   Because I believe and I listen to what people say, and sometimes there have been threads that we started to go down, people seem not to enjoy that.

01:18:14   So I think, OK, why don't they enjoy that?

01:18:16   And we maybe adjust.

01:18:17   Or there's stuff like Ask Cortex, where I'm literally asking,

01:18:21   what do you want to hear about?

01:18:23   And there have been many things that have spanned for longer periods of time

01:18:26   based upon the feedback that people give us, you know.

01:18:30   So like, I do believe that there is a give and take here,

01:18:33   but I don't consider it like a boss and employee relationship, because

01:18:38   I don't think that that's what the majority of our listeners even want,

01:18:43   right, to like feel like they have to tell us what to do.

01:18:46   That's not what entertainment's about.

01:18:48   Right. Like I don't want to go like every time I want to listen to a podcast I enjoy,

01:18:52   set the parameters with the person for what I want them to talk about in advance.

01:18:56   Like that doesn't make any sense.

01:18:57   Right. But there is this element, of course, you want to make sure the audience,

01:19:02   or I believe you want to make sure the audience is enjoying it so they'll keep

01:19:06   returning. And that's why, like, I like to keep track of what people are saying.

01:19:11   But I don't live by everything because sometimes there will be things that people don't enjoy,

01:19:17   but you don't hear from everyone.

01:19:20   And so I think that as a creative person, it is useful to have your finger on the pulse

01:19:26   of what some people are saying and to bear that stuff in mind.

01:19:30   But as you say, I don't think that it necessarily should be your compass.

01:19:36   Yeah, it's a very subtle water to navigate.

01:19:42   It is like paying attention to what the audience seems to react to either positively or negatively,

01:19:53   but you can't let that be the navigating force of the ship.

01:19:59   Well, you can, but it just depends on what you want to make.

01:20:03   It depends on what you're looking for.

01:20:06   I think we consider ourselves as creative people and I want to be able to come up with

01:20:10   stuff on my own.

01:20:11   I don't want to just be told what to do.

01:20:15   There are people that I'm sure out there in the world that follow audience feedback to

01:20:19   the T and really try and make something that they think is going to please everyone.

01:20:25   But I don't think that that's what me and you or most people that I know really attempt

01:20:30   to do because we consider ourselves creative so we're trying to be creative, which means

01:20:36   coming up with stuff. I have a question for you though. Is YouTube the boss?

01:20:44   No, but it's because I've made very sure to do everything I possibly can so that YouTube

01:20:51   isn't the boss.

01:20:52   But I think that for a lot of creative mediums, for a lot of people, YouTube is more of a

01:20:56   boss than some other stuff, right? Because there are things you have to do for YouTube,

01:21:02   for YouTube as i.e. the algorithm, to pay attention to you in a way that we don't need

01:21:08   to worry about that sort of stuff because there is no real algorithm for podcasts, right?

01:21:13   But for YouTube it's like you've got to put this into the system and this into the system

01:21:18   for it to hopefully be picked up and then maybe you have to put a title in this way

01:21:21   and a thumbnail in this way. It feels more of a churn like that to keep the algorithm

01:21:28   happy so it gives you the promotion.

01:21:31   Yeah, I wouldn't phrase YouTube as "YouTube's the boss" because the messaging is not clear

01:21:40   about what is wanted and YouTube often doesn't know what it wants. It tweaks the algorithm

01:21:48   and then there are results.

01:21:49   YouTube is more like your boss's boss.

01:21:51   Where you don't really know what they want.

01:21:53   You're just trying to react to whatever's happening.

01:21:56   Yeah, I think of it a little bit like...

01:21:58   the weather.

01:22:00   And...

01:22:02   Like, "Oh boy, the YouTube weather, it's blowing in a lot of drama this week.

01:22:07   That's what it wants."

01:22:09   And it's like, "Oh, next week it's nothing but clear skies and 20 minute videos.

01:22:13   That's what it wants this week."

01:22:15   And I was like, "Okay, well, whatever."

01:22:17   [laughs]

01:22:19   Who knows? But I don't think YouTube is a boss.

01:22:22   YouTube is an unpredictable weather system.