59: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People


00:00:00   Hi Myke. Hi. Are you ready to be proactive and sharpen the saw to synergize our win-win solution?

00:00:07   Today's the day. Today's the day. Seven habits of highly effective people

00:00:11   There was there was a couple of things that I was interested in talking about today

00:00:16   One was your surprisingly compelling 24-hour death stream. Oh, did you like that? Yeah, I did like that very much

00:00:23   So you had a new video in the CGP Grey doom and gloom series that came out

00:00:28   Is that what it is?

00:00:29   That's what I think of it in my head.

00:00:31   I feel like it was very optimistic but okay.

00:00:33   Was it though?

00:00:34   Because even the idea of living forever, I'm not sure if it was supposed to be in a way

00:00:41   that I was completely comfortable with.

00:00:43   But you, going alongside this video was a 24 hour live stream of an accurate representation

00:00:51   of how many people die on Earth in a day.

00:00:54   And it was fascinating.

00:00:55   It was like on in my house for like 45 minutes just in the background.

00:00:59   Like I started watching it and then I just kind of walked away from the TV

00:01:03   and it was just playing and like I look back it's like 5000. I was like oh no I had to turn it off.

00:01:09   It was it was too much to come back and see the numbers just getting bigger and bigger.

00:01:15   The little pile of skulls getting bigger and bigger.

00:01:17   Yeah it was good though it's a great idea.

00:01:19   It's one of those things that actually ended up coming out of a technical limitation.

00:01:24   So I had this idea originally of like, okay, I like this idea of this 24 hours of death as a visual representation of what's occurring.

00:01:32   Like, how do you convey the magnitude of this thing?

00:01:35   Because if you just say a big number, like it means nothing to people,

00:01:39   whereas I feel like, oh, if I put together a little video like this, it has more of a chance of having an impact.

00:01:44   You know, in exactly that way that you say.

00:01:47   Like, you start watching it and then you come back later and it's like, oh my.

00:01:50   Right, while I was washing the dishes, 10,000 people died.

00:01:53   And so it has an impact.

00:01:55   It drove it home, right?

00:01:57   It was like I could just watch this mesmerizing animation

00:02:00   where someone was getting their head cut off every second.

00:02:03   They were bursting into flames,

00:02:06   I think is what was occurring there.

00:02:07   Oh, my apologies.

00:02:09   Let's get the cause of death correct, I guess.

00:02:13   Yeah.

00:02:13   But so yeah, I had this idea like,

00:02:16   okay, I wanted to do this.

00:02:18   And we're putting together this 24-hour long file

00:02:23   and go to upload it to YouTube and I get a great YouTube error message, which is, "Surprise!

00:02:30   Videos are not allowed to be longer than 12 hours."

00:02:34   And it's like, "Huh, that's interesting." Because I know for a fact that there are videos

00:02:39   on YouTube which are hundreds of hours long. There are definitely videos that are super

00:02:44   long, but it turns out that at some point in the past, YouTube made a decision that

00:02:49   they had enough of this tomfoolery with long videos and they decided to reduce the absolute

00:02:56   limit down to 12 hours.

00:02:58   Which is also longer than any video on YouTube should be. 12 hours is too long. Like why?

00:03:03   I mean I know you've found a reason for it, right?

00:03:05   I was gonna say, I have a very good reason why I would like a video that's longer than

00:03:09   12 hours, thank you.

00:03:10   Right, but it shouldn't be. Because no one's watching that. Well actually I'm interested

00:03:14   to know what your retention graphs are like on those videos.

00:03:17   Well, we can get into that later.

00:03:19   But so anyway, I was super annoyed about this.

00:03:21   Because I was like, "Ah, god damn it. I don't want to break a thing up into two parts."

00:03:25   I know that I'm going to have to break it up into two parts,

00:03:28   but then I feel like that makes it not as good when you're uploading it for the first time.

00:03:33   And so I was spinning this around in my head,

00:03:37   and then talking with some people,

00:03:40   a few people mentioned the suggestion of actually like,

00:03:43   "Hey, can you get around this by live streaming the thing?"

00:03:46   And I was like, wait a minute, yes, there is no limit on how long a live stream can be.

00:03:51   So that's what I ended up doing was, okay, I can get around this technical limit by making it live.

00:03:56   And then as soon as I realised that, I thought, oh, it actually works better if it's live.

00:04:01   It's way better.

00:04:02   Because people can't skip ahead, right? Like people can't just jump.

00:04:05   And it's buzzy.

00:04:06   Yeah.

00:04:07   Right? There is this thing, this is what I found so compelling about it.

00:04:10   There was a thing on the internet that was showing me how many people were dying.

00:04:15   dying. Like it's morbid, but like a car crash television. Right. Like you kind of, you know

00:04:21   it's there. You can't help but look. Right. And I kept checking in every now and then

00:04:26   just to see how big the pile of skulls was. Like it was, you know, and like, and I kind

00:04:30   of had it in my mind to make sure to look before it ended. Right. Like it, like kind

00:04:34   of, I knew it started around like 11am my time or something. So kind of it was like

00:04:38   1030 or whatever and I just checked in and it was like, oh man. But like it kind of had

00:04:42   that effect of it of like there is this thing that's happening which is showing this how

00:04:46   can I not at least look at it. So I think that it worked really well it was a great

00:04:51   idea.

00:04:52   Oh yeah I'm pretty pleased with the way that came out in the end I think that ended up

00:04:56   being like much more interesting than the video itself in a way was just doing this

00:04:59   this live stream so I'm pretty happy with the way it came out.

00:05:03   Yeah I liked the video but I was more interested in the live stream part like that was more

00:05:08   exciting to me.

00:05:10   Yeah, the livestream part is definitely the more interesting part.

00:05:12   And yeah, so it was...

00:05:14   I'm still annoyed that I wasn't able to upload the whole thing as one continuous file,

00:05:18   so I did have to end up uploading the final version as two pieces.

00:05:22   I thought you could set a livestream as a video.

00:05:25   Like, you can just have it available.

00:05:27   You can, but it will only save the last four hours.

00:05:30   Oh, that's silly.

00:05:31   Yeah, so...

00:05:32   Which is also interesting when I realise, like, I know people do 24-hour long charity fundraisers,

00:05:37   And it's like, oh okay, so there's just no record of that.

00:05:39   There's only a record of the last four hours of that.

00:05:43   Because yes, that was originally my thought was I was like,

00:05:45   ha ha ha, fooled you, YouTube.

00:05:47   Like, I'll just save the live stream.

00:05:49   And then I was like, no, it's not gonna work.

00:05:51   It only saves the last four hours.

00:05:52   But yeah, so anyway, this is just an interesting case

00:05:54   of an annoying technical limitation

00:05:58   that I still genuinely wish wasn't there,

00:06:01   but that nonetheless ended up turning into a thing

00:06:04   that is more interesting than it would have otherwise been.

00:06:06   So I feel like that it worked out in the end.

00:06:08   - Yeah, because if you publish the video,

00:06:10   I would just skip to the end.

00:06:12   - Right, yeah, everybody would have, yeah.

00:06:14   But speaking of the audience retention graphs,

00:06:16   there's a very funny thing

00:06:18   in those audience retention graphs

00:06:20   because there are little Easter eggs

00:06:22   throughout the 12 hours.

00:06:24   I think there's something like 20 little Easter eggs

00:06:26   that occur and when I loaded up

00:06:29   the audience retention graphs,

00:06:31   you can see the spikes right around the areas

00:06:34   where all the Easter eggs are.

00:06:36   How are people finding them?

00:06:37   Well, I think what's happening is someone sees it

00:06:41   and then they jump back a couple seconds to say,

00:06:44   "Hey, did I just see that thing that I thought I saw?"

00:06:47   Right, which then double counts

00:06:48   the audience retention in that spot.

00:06:49   And then people leave comments--

00:06:51   I just saw the comment.

00:06:52   People are jumping to those locations.

00:06:55   But it is hilarious.

00:06:56   On the audience retention graph,

00:06:58   you can see spikes for exactly where every single one

00:07:02   of the little Easter eggs are.

00:07:03   So it's pretty funny. That's wonderful.

00:07:04   like why the one at 557 have a hat on?

00:07:08   And why at 751 did they have a briefcase?

00:07:10   I like that this person really needed to,

00:07:12   like they were upset, right?

00:07:13   Like why, why?

00:07:15   (laughing)

00:07:17   - The why questions are great.

00:07:18   And it is funny 'cause when the live stream first went up,

00:07:20   I did enjoy all the comments

00:07:22   where people were saying things like, what does it mean?

00:07:25   What does it mean?

00:07:26   It's like, I'll leave that for you to speculate, commenters.

00:07:31   Like that's what I'm gonna leave.

00:07:32   You can speculate away about what it means.

00:07:33   That's on you to work out.

00:07:35   It's very profound, but you've got to figure it out yourself.

00:07:37   I'm looking at these now. I've got sucked into the comments.

00:07:41   I want to see the Easter eggs.

00:07:43   [Laughter]

00:07:44   Myke, we've got a podcast to record.

00:07:46   You can't do Easter egg hunting.

00:07:47   Yeah, that's true.

00:07:47   Unless we record for 24 hours, which I don't think is a good idea.

00:07:51   But then we won't be able to post it on YouTube.

00:07:53   Unless we livestream a 24 hour long cortex, which is not going to happen.

00:07:56   [Ding]

00:07:57   Myke, do you know that you have become an animated character on the internet?

00:08:01   Finally, right?

00:08:02   [Laughter]

00:08:03   Finally? Yeah, I have waited for a cartoon for years.

00:08:07   Finally there is a cartoon of me. Since I was a kid I've wanted to mic the cartoon.

00:08:12   And we have it now. There's a fantastic, I found this in the Cortex subreddit. The person

00:08:16   who created this video posted it. HM Butet is their YouTube channel, I'll put a link

00:08:21   in the show notes, and they are putting together some fantastic Cortex animated videos which

00:08:26   I am enjoying immensely. And I wanted people to see them because I think it's really great.

00:08:32   one of the previous episodes, there's one of some classic moments from old episodes,

00:08:36   and I love seeing stuff like this, and they really make me laugh and I enjoy them immensely.

00:08:42   And you really like being a cartoon character?

00:08:44   I love being a cartoon character. This person has an almost spooky ability to capture movements

00:08:50   that I think I would make. The way they animate my movements when talking to you is a lot

00:08:57   of how I imagine they actually are, so I think it's brilliant.

00:09:01   So one of these that I think is probably the best version is from--

00:09:04   I think it was our very first episode where we're talking about the screens

00:09:08   and home screen icons.

00:09:09   And the way they animate you when you're asking about what

00:09:15   I think about your home screen, I think it's just perfect.

00:09:19   People should go take a look at it.

00:09:22   Whether or not the way it is animated is the way it happens,

00:09:25   it adds something to the audio which makes

00:09:27   it sound like that's the way that it happens.

00:09:30   So it's really well done.

00:09:31   I'm always incredibly impressed by the way that people make these types of videos.

00:09:36   I watch some for some of my favorite shows.

00:09:39   There are some fantastic animated videos for my brother, my brother and me.

00:09:44   What I love about these types of videos is the way that people hear a thing, they hear

00:09:49   a thing, but the way they interpret it adds so much more to it.

00:09:55   It's such an interesting skill that people have to be able to hear a sentence and pick

00:10:00   out specific words and make a joke about those words in a way that was never originally intended.

00:10:07   It's so interesting to see that.

00:10:09   And also the kinetic nature of the videos is very interesting to me, the way that people

00:10:15   make the movements and they adjust the audio to fit.

00:10:18   I find it a very interesting skill.

00:10:21   And I'm really pleased to see something for our show too, because I love watching them

00:10:26   for the shows that I enjoy.

00:10:28   So it means a lot to me that people make this sort of stuff, so I want to thank that person

00:10:32   and encourage that people watch them because they're really, really fun.

00:10:36   Yeah, no, it's great stuff.

00:10:39   It's a huge amount of work.

00:10:40   I can't even imagine.

00:10:41   Oh yeah, I can't imagine how much work it is.

00:10:45   And it is always a funny experience, especially to see like a joke added to a thing that you

00:10:50   yourself have said. Right, where it's like, oh I'm watching a thing that's an animation

00:10:53   of something that I have said, and then here is this extra layer that is put on top of

00:10:57   it which was not intended to be there. So it's good stuff. It's good stuff.

00:11:02   So Gray I've mentioned that I'm going to be travelling a bunch before the end of the year.

00:11:07   And one of the things that I'm doing is PodCon, which is the podcast version of VidCon, which

00:11:12   may be, maybe just sparking many of our listeners' minds what this is, but it's like a celebration

00:11:17   of the creation of podcasts and there's going to be a lot of live shows and panels and things

00:11:21   like that. I'm going to be there. I now have a "Here's where you'll find Myke Hurley"

00:11:27   schedule.

00:11:28   Oh, very exciting.

00:11:29   Which I can put in the show notes. Because I'm doing a couple of things. I'm doing some

00:11:31   panels and some round tables and stuff like that.

00:11:34   As you should be. You're a big man on podcast campus.

00:11:37   Pod campus, I think it would be called.

00:11:40   Pod campus?

00:11:41   Yeah, sure. I just wanted to mention one thing that if people are going to be there, I'm

00:11:45   I'm going to be doing a signing at PodCon.

00:11:48   - Oh yeah?

00:11:49   So you're going to be there at a booth?

00:11:51   - Yep, at a booth.

00:11:52   - People are going to bring up things for you to sign?

00:11:54   - Maybe, I don't know what that would be.

00:11:56   I guess, what do I sign?

00:11:57   - Myke Hurley merchandise?

00:11:59   - People's iPods?

00:12:00   - Yeah.

00:12:01   - So, I'm going to be there.

00:12:04   - You sign their beards?

00:12:05   I don't know how that works.

00:12:06   - Yeah, I can sign beard oil, I don't know.

00:12:09   But December 10th, it's going to be at PodCon.

00:12:11   I think you have to be an attendee to be there

00:12:13   and I am looking forward to it.

00:12:14   It does look like a really interesting event, like the whole schedule is up now.

00:12:18   But I'm going to be at a booth in the signing area and everything and I wanted to just let

00:12:24   people know about this.

00:12:25   I've never done anything like this before is what I'm getting at here.

00:12:29   And I don't really know...

00:12:30   Are you nervous Myke?

00:12:31   Kind of.

00:12:32   I don't really know what to expect.

00:12:35   So I want to make sure that if you're going to be at PodCon and you want to come and see

00:12:39   me please do and I'm gonna have I'm gonna make this poster print for people that come

00:12:45   so if you come there will be a poster that I will sign and give to you.

00:12:51   Are you bribing the people Myke? It sounds like you're bribing the people.

00:12:53   It's more of an incentive. Oh it's an incentive. It's an incentive. There will be a poster

00:12:58   that I'm currently working on with a very talented artist and I may be able to share

00:13:03   the artwork beforehand just because I think it's probably gonna be amazing because this

00:13:07   person's awesome. I don't think you should I think you should

00:13:08   keep the artwork secret for the people who are going to be showing up to see it.

00:13:12   I was thinking about like taking a picture of it in such a way that you

00:13:15   couldn't use it for anything like my hand is there right but just so you know

00:13:19   the amazingness that is gonna be bestowed upon you right that you will

00:13:22   get. Okay I'm gonna suggest a different tack. You should take a

00:13:26   picture that just shows them a corner of the poster. Yeah like a little piece.

00:13:32   That's what you should do. Yeah that's good I like that so you can understand how great it's

00:13:36   gonna be but you don't get it. I'm trying to help you bribe the people to come Myke

00:13:40   so this is this is my suggestion show a corner of the poster. I will do that but

00:13:45   I'm genuinely very excited for PodCon because this is a thing that I've wanted

00:13:48   to exist for a while and the schedule looks great and I'm excited to go as an

00:13:52   attendee and as somebody who's gonna be involved in a few things so but yeah if

00:13:57   you're gonna be there please come to my signing you'll get a poster and it will

00:14:01   make me very happy. I don't know. Signings man, like, have you ever done a signing? You

00:14:08   have, right? Something like that?

00:14:12   Uh, technically yes. There was one case where I ended up doing a thing that was kind of

00:14:19   a signing, but it was a very special set of circumstances. It was the random acts of intelligence

00:14:25   show down in Alabama. It was like, I think it was like a very elite group of people who

00:14:31   were there. So that is the one time I've done it. But it also, I have great sympathy for

00:14:41   you Myke because in that situation you didn't have the nerve of like, "Is anyone going to

00:14:46   go to the signing?" Because there were just five of us there and it's like, "These people

00:14:50   are here to see us so we know that if we go outside and do signings we're not going to

00:14:54   look like sad saddos who are just all on our own." But if you're at a big conference it's

00:14:59   it's a very different thing and you don't know how much of your audience is going to be at the...

00:15:05   The Cortex audience, it would be a long line if everybody was going to a Myke signing

00:15:11   but the question is how many are going to PodCon?

00:15:14   That's it, that's the point, right? I don't know!

00:15:17   I can understand the cold sweat in your hands, right?

00:15:20   Where it's like, Myke could fill a stadium full of people if we got all the Cortex people there

00:15:25   many go to PodCon right who knows like what it's going to look like so I

00:15:29   completely understand your your desire to bribe / encourage people to go so I

00:15:38   think that I think that's a good method tease the people with the excitement of

00:15:41   what they get at a mic signing and to any cortex listeners if you go into pod

00:15:46   con make sure to see Myke make sure to bring your beard oil this episode of

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00:17:31   Alright Gray, I think that we're effectively warmed up at this point to discuss the book.

00:17:37   The Cortex Book Club, the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Now, I have had this on

00:17:43   my list since the very beginning of our show.

00:17:46   Right.

00:17:47   This has been something that I have wanted to talk about.

00:17:49   I've never read this book before but I, like many people, am very aware of this as an idea

00:17:55   that there is a book called The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

00:17:59   I'm pretty sure I've had some of it mentioned to me during management training courses back

00:18:04   in my old life, right?

00:18:06   Like this is, I mean, you know, it's what's it like 20 million, 15 million copies sold

00:18:10   or something.

00:18:11   morning and yeah it's it's 25 million copies sold and it's something like one of the top 20

00:18:19   best-selling business books of all time it's it's a it's a mammoth giant in this field this is the

00:18:25   one when it comes to these types of books you know like like we've spoken about the emith revisited

00:18:30   right like we spoke about that like i think that all of these books are just trying to be the next

00:18:35   seven habits like this is like an entire empire there are many spin-off books there's like whole

00:18:41   business set up around it like it is it is a big thing.

00:18:44   Yeah there's like seven habits for the teenage chicken soup soul like there's

00:18:49   you know it's a whole many there's many spin-offs of this.

00:18:51   My favorite one the eighth habit I was like hang on a second how many are there is there an

00:18:57   infinite amount of habits now?

00:18:59   Well people keep buying books yes there are an infinite number of habits yeah.

00:19:02   Yeah there sure are. What I want to do is I want to go through each of the habits

00:19:06   and give a very brief outline of them.

00:19:09   And then we can talk about if and how they apply

00:19:12   to our working lives, either before or after.

00:19:17   But I wanted to kind of talk about the book

00:19:18   and the abstract a little bit more.

00:19:20   So you had read this before, right?

00:19:23   This isn't your first time,

00:19:24   this is my first time with the book,

00:19:25   but it isn't yours, right?

00:19:27   - Yeah, no, this is not my first time at this rodeo.

00:19:30   And it is why when we were mentioning

00:19:32   that this was coming up in the last episode,

00:19:35   I think people could hear that there was some hesitation in my voice to finally committing

00:19:40   to doing this thing that you have been bugging me for years to do.

00:19:44   Yeah, so I read this a long time ago, and I kept trying to remember, but I'm pretty

00:19:53   sure that I read this book along with a bunch of other books in the genre before I ended

00:20:00   up finding Getting Things Done, which was the book that really worked for me.

00:20:04   You were looking for something, right? And none of these books gave you that.

00:20:08   Yeah, like I remember reading a book about eating a frog. There's a whole bunch of books

00:20:12   that are like these well-known things and this was one of these books and yeah, I'm

00:20:17   95% sure that I read it before I read Getting Things Done a long time ago, back when I was

00:20:25   a very different person. So yes, I have read this book and upon rereading it, much of it

00:20:32   it came rushing back and so much of it was surprising and new, let's say that. So yeah,

00:20:41   reread the book, finished it, not 30 minutes before we started recording today.

00:20:46   I finished it yesterday.

00:20:49   Yeah, just like homework in real life where if a thing had to get done, I was going to

00:20:55   do it in the class before the class when it was due. That is essentially what I did this

00:21:00   morning is like man I timed it right down to a 30 minute buffer of when I

00:21:04   could finish this book and I got it done just on time.

00:21:08   Let's just pull back the curtain a little bit more we're recording this episode like three days later than we were supposed to.

00:21:13   I wouldn't have got the book done in time if we hadn't moved it, so I was kind of pretty happy about that.

00:21:19   Yeah, yeah that is that is also the case I had some last-minute travel plans that

00:21:23   messed up our recording schedule but it was also a thing of like I'm never gonna finish this book in time.

00:21:29   Otherwise I wouldn't have been pulling in all night or something. There was just no

00:21:32   way. I had like seven hours to go. It's long. It's really long. It's really long. I want

00:21:39   to say though, right, this book was not as bad as I thought it was going to be. I will

00:21:47   say that. Like it is frustrating at times and I want to talk about some of those frustrations

00:21:51   in a bit more detail. But I was not infuriated listening to this book like I was the Emith

00:21:56   Revisited, which by the way, if you've never heard that episode of the show, it's one of

00:21:59   my favorites.

00:22:00   Yeah, yeah, it's a really good one to start with if you're like recommending people come

00:22:06   to the show, like I think that's probably a great starting spot, even if people haven't

00:22:09   read the book.

00:22:10   I'll put a link in the show notes to that episode. It was episode 21. January of last

00:22:15   year. I thought it was longer than that, but yeah, January of last year, episode 21 that

00:22:18   you've revisited. I recommend that one if you've not heard it, or I should say if you

00:22:22   recommended someone for the show but anyway I actually found this book interesting at

00:22:26   times and sometimes useful in a way that like E-Myth I took one thing from it there was

00:22:32   one thing and I think this book it has more to it than that I can actually whilst reading

00:22:37   it can be like okay I know why this got as popular as it did like I have a lot of problems

00:22:42   with it but on the whole there is good information in this book and it isn't infuriating.

00:22:53   I wasn't screaming at my phone like I was when I was listening to E-Myth.

00:22:58   Yeah you were really frustrated with E-Myth.

00:23:00   I hated that book.

00:23:03   It was everything I don't like about that type of thing that book had it.

00:23:06   But I would have to take breaks, right?

00:23:09   If I was going to sit down and listen to this for three hours I had to take a break like

00:23:12   every 45 minutes because there's just only so much of this I can take, right? Like, I feel like it's

00:23:17   just my brain is being filled up with mostly nonsense for a while, right? And I kind of have

00:23:22   to like chill for a bit, but I've found this one. I was like going like, I'm making more notes than

00:23:29   I thought I would make mostly for me. So this book, I can see why it is a big thing. I can see

00:23:38   why people really, really like what it has to say.

00:23:42   Hm.

00:23:43   Hm.

00:23:44   That's interesting to hear, because part of my memory of the book, and one of the reasons

00:23:48   why I didn't feel like I wanted to read it again, is because my review, when people have

00:23:54   asked me about it, has always been, "It's one good idea in a thousand pages."

00:24:00   This was my memory from having read the book the first time.

00:24:05   And so it was interesting to read it again and say, "Does this hold up or does this not

00:24:10   hold up?"

00:24:11   And upon rereading this book, I feel like this book defeated my soul.

00:24:17   I feel really beaten down from reading this book.

00:24:22   So I feel like we're having a little bit of opposite reactions with Emith and this one,

00:24:26   because in Emith I felt like I kept defending Emith.

00:24:30   I'm like, "Yeah, it's crazy, but there's some good ideas in here."

00:24:33   Whereas with this one, I think you could play the audiobook of this as a method of torture,

00:24:42   to just make people divulge information by just looping it in their cell over and over

00:24:46   again.

00:24:47   Interesting, okay.

00:24:48   I will say, there is a huge chunk of this book that I think is pointless.

00:24:52   Yeah, I mean, as with all these books, it could be dramatically shortened.

00:24:57   Oh yeah.

00:24:58   Oh yeah.

00:24:59   But more than that, like...

00:25:01   So even though this book totally defeated me, I also have the understanding of like, I can see why this book was such a mammoth book.

00:25:10   But my takeaway is, this book is almost like a Rorschach test.

00:25:17   Like, people will... it's so vague in so many places that you can...

00:25:23   I think people can just kind of read into it their own situations.

00:25:27   But like the amount of actual actionable material struck me as like incredibly small.

00:25:34   And what I felt like I was reading was a like a productivity book Markov chain.

00:25:42   Like this is just like an automatic AI generated endless string sentence of words in a productivity

00:25:49   book that your brain is constantly struggling to pull meaning out of and to find connections to.

00:25:54   And it just never ends.

00:25:56   It just goes on forever.

00:25:59   And when I say that this book defeated me, the thing that was happening was like, I started

00:26:04   reading the book and I genuinely like read up to habit number two, which is sort of most

00:26:10   of what I had remembered from before.

00:26:13   And then I realized like, I'm reading this book, but the reading is in quotes where like,

00:26:17   I'm just pressing forward on the Kindle.

00:26:20   Like not even skimming, but it's just like flip, flip, flip, because my brain is like

00:26:25   trying to get through this thing like, "Hey, let's just turn some pages and then we'll

00:26:29   focus on the words in a little bit and it's like a pickup at another spot."

00:26:32   It's like, "Oh God, I can't stand this."

00:26:34   So, I always make fun of you for reading the audiobook, but I had to buy the audiobook

00:26:40   because I was aware that at a certain point like I physically cannot read this book.

00:26:47   There is no way I can force my eyes to look at the words and have the meaning go into

00:26:52   my head.

00:26:53   It was just completely impossible.

00:26:55   So I switched to the audiobook, which I never recommend people do for this kind of book.

00:27:01   And then I felt like I was being brainwashed for six more hours.

00:27:05   So I feel like I have come out of an experience somewhat traumatized.

00:27:12   And I'm going to give a "no recommend" to this book.

00:27:16   But I'm very happy to talk about some of the habits and the ideas that are contained inside

00:27:20   of it.

00:27:21   I cannot think of a book in this genre that I can now say that I like less than this book.

00:27:28   This book is the worst book.

00:27:30   Let's put a pin in that for one second because I have a theory.

00:27:32   But I wanted to say about the audiobook.

00:27:34   I know that the audiobooks are torture.

00:27:37   But the reason I do it is because I can integrate it into my life.

00:27:41   Right, yeah, yeah.

00:27:42   I don't have to, like, take the time to sit and read the book.

00:27:46   Because I don't do a lot of sitting and reading time in this way.

00:27:50   But like I can be traveling as I have been and listen.

00:27:55   I can be playing Stardew Valley and listen.

00:27:58   So that's why I do this, right? Like I do that because I can integrate the audiobook into my working life and personal life easier than I can the physical book or can do it.

00:28:10   Oh yeah, I completely understand that and that's what I was doing as well.

00:28:13   Like I've been traveling a whole bunch and so it's like, okay great, while I'm standing online at security, right,

00:28:17   I can hear about how we're going to synergize our plus one ideas and it's great.

00:28:20   But I also found that at a certain point,

00:28:23   just like I was no longer reading the book,

00:28:25   I was simply not listening to the audio book. And so what I ended up,

00:28:30   the final,

00:28:31   the final stage in my journey of I have to read this so I can talk about it at

00:28:34   least a little bit on a podcast was no joke.

00:28:37   Listening to the audio book while looking at the Kindle version was the only,

00:28:44   It was like the only way I could force the words to mean things in my head because I was aware like after a while

00:28:50   Even with the audiobook is like I can't I can't listen

00:28:52   So I had the weird experience towards the end of audio book cranked up to like two and a half X

00:28:57   Which is about my reading speed and then like quote reading through the book while the audio book is playing in my head

00:29:03   So that that's how I finished the book this morning. So here is my theory

00:29:07   I have a theory about this which I kind of decided on pretty early and it helped me get through this book

00:29:13   Okay. This book was published in 1989. Right.

00:29:18   My theory is part of the reason that at first I was finding it infuriating and why I believe

00:29:23   you find it infuriating is this book feels like you take every other productivity book

00:29:31   ever written, put it into a blender and Seven Habits pops out. And I think it's the reverse

00:29:36   of that. This was the book that started a lot of this stuff. So, so many of the things

00:29:43   that feel like tropes of terrible business books, and because you've heard them a million

00:29:47   times because of this one. So like as when I started thinking about that, I approached

00:29:52   this book differently. I was giving it more leeway because this book isn't trying to be

00:29:59   annoying. I'm annoyed by this book because every marketing book, business book, and management

00:30:05   material ever made since 1989 is trying to rip off The Seven Habits. And when I kind

00:30:13   of this is my theory, when I was able to accept that, I was able to give this book more leeway

00:30:18   and that's why I think I wasn't so annoyed about it.

00:30:21   Yeah, no, you're totally right about that. I think that that's not a theory that that

00:30:25   might as well just be like an accepted fact in the universe, right? That this like when

00:30:29   you this is this is the book that had to introduce the idea of like paradigm shift into the into

00:30:35   the language, right? This is the book that raises the idea of synergy into the language,

00:30:40   right? It's the first book that starts talking about all of that stuff. My comparison for

00:30:45   this is the example I always use, but I think of the animated version of Ghost in the Shell

00:30:51   as a movie, which is very hard for modern audiences to watch because it's set up every

00:30:56   single science fiction trope for the next 30 years. So when you watch the original it

00:31:01   feels like this thing is incredibly unoriginal because you've seen all of the spin-offs and

00:31:06   all of the versions for the next 30 years on it. Like, without a doubt, Seven Habits,

00:31:12   reading it now has that problem.

00:31:14   And you've read so many more of these types of books than I have. So you have read this

00:31:19   book 150 times.

00:31:21   But my problem with it isn't that. Like, it isn't just that it's like, yes, this is this

00:31:27   this endless blender of random sentences from other books.

00:31:30   Because I was also thinking that very much

00:31:32   while I'm reading it.

00:31:33   It's like, okay, this is the foundation of it,

00:31:35   but it still felt like even with that in mind,

00:31:38   like when he's talking about these various things,

00:31:40   there's just so little there,

00:31:44   or the like the ideas don't even make sense.

00:31:48   Like his whole chapter on,

00:31:49   I just pick up on synergy just as an example, right?

00:31:52   Because it's this like idea

00:31:53   that has infected the business world

00:31:54   where people are always synergizing

00:31:56   their global strategies, right?

00:31:57   But even that whole chapter is like,

00:31:59   even here his concept of synergy, it's not like,

00:32:02   oh, the original person had a great idea

00:32:05   and it has since been distilled down

00:32:08   to a meaningless jargon word.

00:32:09   It's like, no, it was born as a meaningless jargon word.

00:32:12   Like he's using it wildly and consistently

00:32:15   in a way that makes no sense

00:32:17   across a whole bunch of different analogies.

00:32:19   So that's why I don't feel like,

00:32:20   ah, this thing was the thing that started it

00:32:22   and it got mutated over time.

00:32:23   It's like it was born in this inconsistent, horrific way.

00:32:27   - Yeah. - So yeah.

00:32:28   - There are so many buzzwords and phrases in this book

00:32:33   that he creates that by the end of it,

00:32:35   you feel like you're in a bowl of soup.

00:32:37   Like, so this is from Habit 7.

00:32:41   This was a note that, this is the end, right?

00:32:43   So I've made this note.

00:32:45   I say, by the point in this book,

00:32:46   there are so many buzzwords that he uses

00:32:48   that it is almost impossible

00:32:50   to distinguish them from each other.

00:32:52   - Right, yeah.

00:32:52   - So I'll give a few of these.

00:32:53   and we may talk about them, emotional bank account,

00:32:56   PC balance, intra-dependence, interdependence,

00:32:58   personal renewal, daily private victory,

00:33:01   synergize win-win solutions.

00:33:03   By the end of the book, he is throwing these words out

00:33:06   like candy and to the point that you're like,

00:33:08   does this word actually exist?

00:33:10   I believe by the end of this book

00:33:12   that the word intra-dependence existed.

00:33:14   Because it's like, I've heard it so many times now

00:33:18   that it must be true.

00:33:19   And it is, intra-dependence is the idea

00:33:22   of working with others. So instead of being independent, you're interdependent. It's

00:33:27   either inter or intra. I also couldn't understand it because here's another thing that I have

00:33:31   a problem with basically all business books. I'm almost convinced. This is another of my

00:33:35   theories coming out of this book. I'm almost convinced that audiobook narrators or the

00:33:40   people narrating audiobooks, this one is narrated by Stephen R. Covey, the guy who wrote the

00:33:44   book, that they pronounce words weirdly just to make sure that you're paying attention.

00:33:49   Yes, yeah, there's a few of those in here where it's like, this is a normal word, dude,

00:33:55   right?

00:33:56   Like, there's no way he...

00:33:57   He says "truths" in a way I've never heard before.

00:33:59   He goes "trou-ves".

00:34:01   It's like the longest word with a "v" in it.

00:34:03   It's like, I don't understand what you're doing.

00:34:05   Like, some words, like, nobody says them like this.

00:34:08   I'm convinced that they do this just so you pay attention, because you're like, I don't

00:34:12   understand the word that he just used.

00:34:14   It's mind-blowing.

00:34:15   So, I'm now getting worked up now, so here are a couple more frustrations about this

00:34:19   book.

00:34:20   The first habit begins at two hours and twenty-two minutes in.

00:34:24   Oh, wow!

00:34:25   I didn't realize it was that long.

00:34:29   So I have the unabridged, which again, don't know why I do this, but my version includes

00:34:33   a forward, which is mind-blowingly just up in the stratosphere, where he's talking

00:34:42   about his son, and I just can't believe it's true. Like with many of these stories,

00:34:48   there are many stories in this book where I'm like, "Okay, Covey, that didn't happen."

00:34:53   Something like that may have happened, but that didn't happen. And the idea is that

00:34:59   his son was failing in everything. He was terrible at school, terrible at athletics,

00:35:04   just couldn't get anything right in his life. They started to apply the seven habits to

00:35:09   him before they became the Seven Habits, right? Like they just started to change their behavior.

00:35:13   And he ended up being the most popular kid in school, homecoming king twice, grade A

00:35:19   valedictorian, and the captain of the football team.

00:35:23   Right, and he won the Nobel Prize.

00:35:27   Now I did a little bit of investigation and his son was a successful American football

00:35:32   player. But I don't believe the rest of it. Like I can't. Maybe he was all of those

00:35:37   but beforehand was not failing, unpopular, and couldn't run.

00:35:41   Like, I just can't, in my mind, believe that this is true.

00:35:45   And the thing is, they may be true, if it is, whatever,

00:35:47   but when you read these books, you're like, "This can't be,"

00:35:49   because you know there are lies throughout this book.

00:35:52   He also found a magical hotel, by the way, which is like,

00:35:56   "Did they all do this?" - Oh, oh my God, yes.

00:35:57   I have that highlighted.

00:35:58   We can get to that later.

00:35:59   But yeah, this is one of the things that I didn't remember about the book at all,

00:36:04   and I was astounded on the reread is everything relates to his children and his family.

00:36:10   I was astounded by how much of this book is focused around marriage.

00:36:17   Yeah.

00:36:18   So many things. Like this is a business book, but like honestly the major focus of The Seven Habits

00:36:24   is applying them to your family life. And I was like, what is this book? Like this was,

00:36:29   It was so different to what I was expecting in that way.

00:36:33   Everything is to do with his family.

00:36:34   Even like delegating his son to mow the lawn, right?

00:36:37   Oh my god, the mowing the lawn story.

00:36:39   Yeah, so but this is exactly the kind of thing where it's just like,

00:36:42   I don't believe these stories that you're telling about your children.

00:36:45   Like, because he's always telling stories about some kind of

00:36:49   Leave it to Beaver perfect family where they're just,

00:36:51   they're having conversations and then people just realize,

00:36:54   oh, I understand everything now.

00:36:55   And like stuff just works out perfectly fine.

00:36:58   Even when it doesn't there's something like it's the stories are crazy

00:37:02   There's one that I highlighted as to me a perfect example of like, I'm sorry

00:37:06   This story didn't happen where I don't know if you remember this one, but he's talking about

00:37:11   Not wanting to go see Star Wars with his daughter. Oh and yeah

00:37:16   And and the daughter says Oh dad. I'm alright. I know you don't like Star Wars. You've slept through it before right?

00:37:23   You don't you don't want to see this movie

00:37:26   And then his daughter who was like, "How old is the daughter in this story?"

00:37:31   But she says, "But you know why you don't like Star Wars?

00:37:35   It's because you don't understand the philosophy and training of a Jedi Knight."

00:37:39   "What?" I said.

00:37:41   "You know the things you teach, Dad?

00:37:44   Those same things you teach are the training of a Jedi Knight."

00:37:49   And then I said, "Really? Let's go see Star Wars."

00:37:53   And we did.

00:37:54   She sat next to me and gave me the new paradigm.

00:37:57   I became her student, her learner.

00:38:00   It was totally fascinating, and I could begin to see out of the new paradigm

00:38:05   the whole way a Jedi Knight's basic philosophy and training is manifested in different circumstances.

00:38:13   It's like, this didn't happen.

00:38:15   There's no way that your daughter's like, "Let me tell you about the philosophy and training of a Jedi Knight."

00:38:20   Because also, like, this movie is taking place in the 80s.

00:38:22   He's like, this is, this did not happen.

00:38:25   There is no way that your daughter was like,

00:38:27   let me explain to you how what Jedi Knights do

00:38:29   is exactly what you do, Dad.

00:38:32   You're just like a Jedi.

00:38:33   - Hey, Cuffee, you're a Jedi.

00:38:35   - Yeah, exactly. - No, Cuffee wanted

00:38:36   to be a Jedi is what this is all about.

00:38:38   - I read that story because that one is particularly crazy.

00:38:40   - Yep. - But just imagine

00:38:42   like every single page, there is some quick story

00:38:46   about his family and like learning things from his children

00:38:50   or teaching things to his children

00:38:52   in ways that when you're on the 100th one of them,

00:38:54   like this is not believable, like this is crazy.

00:38:58   - I think the worst one for me is,

00:38:59   this is towards the end of the book,

00:39:01   he's talking about how him and his family

00:39:03   took a year away to Hawaii.

00:39:05   - Oh God, yeah.

00:39:07   - And he talks about how the kids would go to school

00:39:10   and then he would pick them up on like,

00:39:12   it's called like a Honda Trail Master or something,

00:39:14   trail cycle, which is a motorbike,

00:39:17   where he said that all four of the family got on the bike

00:39:21   and would drive to the beach.

00:39:23   He's like, I would sit and my wife would sit behind me,

00:39:26   kid in between us and one of them on my knee.

00:39:28   I was like, how?

00:39:29   How?

00:39:30   He's like, are you circus performers?

00:39:31   Like, what are you doing?

00:39:33   - Well, that kind of description to me

00:39:35   reads like a thing where when you're a psychologist

00:39:37   and you start to unwind with someone false memories

00:39:40   that they have, because it's like,

00:39:41   oh yeah, we were on a motorcycle.

00:39:43   Yeah, it's like, no, that can't possibly have been the case.

00:39:46   Right, like let's start comparing this

00:39:48   against real world things.

00:39:49   like there's no way that you were doing this in the way that you're describing.

00:39:52   And then he would talk about how they would sit on the beach and just talk for

00:39:57   hours, right? Like that every single day.

00:39:59   And then he's telling the story about how his wife would only buy

00:40:04   Frigidaire appliances, which is a company, right?

00:40:08   They make like white goods and stuff.

00:40:09   And this was apparently a sore spot in their marriage because she would insist

00:40:16   on these Frigidaire appliances. And for some reason,

00:40:18   caused huge problems with tons of emotional baggage because every time they needed to

00:40:24   buy an appliance they had to go to the next town and they both were just dreading this

00:40:27   conversation was coming and every time it came it was like the end of their marriage

00:40:31   and they had so much trouble with it and then she happened to remember that her father's

00:40:36   business was saved by Frigidaire. How would you not remember that? How would you, why

00:40:40   would you know you had this like undying love for this company and not remember it was because

00:40:46   your dad's business was saved by their financing of their appliances.

00:40:50   Yeah, and that again is an example of like, okay, let's say that that story is true. This

00:40:56   is also like almost a classic example of your wife is probably just manufacturing a memory

00:41:02   about a thing that might have happened when she was a kid. Like it's so weird. It's so

00:41:07   strange. So many of these stories.

00:41:09   You're making me dislike this book now. I don't like it anymore.

00:41:15   This is it, right? And so like, it suffers from this thing that all these books do. Why

00:41:22   give one example when you can list 20?

00:41:26   Yeah, yeah. Why give one example when you can list 20? Now, again, I will slightly in

00:41:31   defence say that in my memory, the thing which we'll get to, which I think was the one idea,

00:41:36   is the one place that I think benefits from a bunch of examples. But most of the time,

00:41:41   It totally doesn't.

00:41:43   And the problem with a whole bunch of the examples is they are all these just-so examples.

00:41:54   It's like, let me tell you a thing and then here's an imaginary story about how it perfectly

00:42:00   solved this situation.

00:42:02   And it's not a real-life example of what to do.

00:42:07   Just to contrast with Getting Things Done, which again I will say I don't think is a

00:42:10   book which really holds up anymore. But one of the things I always find hilarious in that book is

00:42:14   David Allen talks about the problems and projects that you have and his problems and projects are

00:42:20   always like hilarious rich person problems. So he talks about like what's the first step to

00:42:25   building your next orchard, right? And it's like, well, you know, you need to do all of it. Like

00:42:30   that is literally an example in the book at one point, right? But what I will appreciate about

00:42:37   is, okay, he may be giving a bunch of examples,

00:42:39   but he works through the specifics of this thing,

00:42:42   of like, here's a thing, let's break down the way

00:42:45   that you're supposed to think about this.

00:42:46   Whereas this book feels like a whole bunch of parables

00:42:51   about an imaginary family that are vaguely related

00:42:57   to the ideas that he's pushing in the book,

00:42:59   and it's like, okay, this is my feeling throughout it,

00:43:02   is there's no action,

00:43:05   And if you read the book, what you can also see and what really started to bother me is

00:43:13   his philosophy, which there's a very weird and very brief afterward which re-emphasizes this idea.

00:43:19   Oh, I didn't listen to the afterward. I got to the end of the seventh habit. I was like, "I'm done. I'm out."

00:43:23   Yeah, but his philosophy in large part, he talks about like, he's constantly talking about

00:43:29   making decisions to stay constant with your principles, right?

00:43:32   Right, like this is like over and over this is the drumbeat.

00:43:36   It's like the secret to living a good life is to have good principles and stick to them.

00:43:41   Alright, and my frustration with that is like, yeah, that's the whole f*cking problem.

00:43:46   Right, like that's the hard thing to do is to make the right decisions,

00:43:51   but so many of these things are like, you need to set out some ideas and then just stick to them.

00:43:56   It's like, dude, just sticking to them is the hard part.

00:44:00   And what I absolutely love is in this ridiculous story where he talks about having his son mowing the lawn.

00:44:05   It is the... there's once in the entire book where he explicitly acknowledged like doing something is hard

00:44:12   because his kid promises to mow the lawn and then doesn't.

00:44:15   And then when he calls his kid out on it, his kid cries and says, "Oh, Dad, it's so hard."

00:44:21   And in his internal monologue, he says like, "Oh, what's so hard? Like you didn't do anything."

00:44:25   And then he has one line in the whole book where he says,

00:44:28   well the hard thing is sticking to the principles, right?

00:44:30   And then just blows right past it and it's like

00:44:32   you've got a thousand pages

00:44:34   upon which every page is just like the secret

00:44:36   to making good decisions is to make good decisions

00:44:38   and it's like there's nothing here

00:44:40   there's nothing here to talk about

00:44:42   and it's this weird thing about

00:44:44   choices and

00:44:46   there is a moment which

00:44:48   blows my mind

00:44:50   in the afterword at the very end of the

00:44:52   book which really sums it up where

00:44:54   he's talking about choices

00:44:56   And he literally just says something like, "If your parents abused you as a child, that does not mean you have to abuse your own children.

00:45:03   You can choose not to abuse your children." And it's like, "Oh, is that the problem?" Like, people are just making them--it's crazy.

00:45:11   Oh my god. Oh wow.

00:45:13   Oh, okay. It's like, thanks for solving these systemic societal problems by telling people

00:45:22   who do bad things not to choose to do the bad things. It's so weird.

00:45:29   Yeah, there are more examples of this. So in one of the many examples of relationship

00:45:34   advice in this book, there is somebody who came up to him at the end of a conference.

00:45:40   people come up to Covey at the end of his speaking engagements to tell him stories.

00:45:44   Oh my god, yeah. Was this the woman, the nurse, like who's working with the old man? Or was

00:45:48   this another one? There was just another one.

00:45:51   This one is guys like, "Me and my wife, we don't love each other anymore."

00:45:55   Oh I have that highlighted too, oh my god it's amazing.

00:45:59   Just love them. But it's like, but we don't get a lot, you just love, it just keeps saying

00:46:02   over and over again, just love them, just love them. And saying that, you know, love

00:46:06   is a thing that is constructed by books and it's not a real thing and all you have to do is be

00:46:10   attentive and it's like okay the advice like there's probably some interesting stuff in this

00:46:15   advice but the way that he gives it is just so weird like just love them like he's that is his

00:46:22   advice just love them he just keeps saying it over and over again until the scales fall from the

00:46:27   person's eyes and they can finally see as part of Covey's teaching. I think this is worth reading

00:46:32   word-for-word. This weird like how to love your wife thing.

00:46:35   It's like okay listen there's like strap in for a moment here. Yeah you got you

00:46:39   gone on a wild ride. Okay so here's relationship advice from Steven Covey.

00:46:44   At one seminar where I was speaking on the concept of productivity a man came

00:46:48   up and said Steven I like what you're saying but every situation is so

00:46:53   different. Look at my marriage. I'm really worried. My wife and I just don't have

00:46:57   the same feelings for each other that we used to. I guess I just don't love her

00:47:01   anymore and she doesn't love me. What can I do?" "Love her," I replied. "I told you the feeling

00:47:07   just isn't there anymore." "Love her." "You don't understand the feeling of love just isn't there."

00:47:13   "Then love her. If the feeling isn't there, that's a good reason to love her." "But how do you love

00:47:21   when you don't love?" "My friend, love is a verb. Love the feeling is the fruit of love, the verb.

00:47:29   So love her.

00:47:30   End of chapter, right?

00:47:32   Like, what?

00:47:33   What the hell is this?

00:47:37   Right?

00:47:37   Like, but

00:47:38   like, but that is

00:47:41   another version of the same story

00:47:43   that gets told many times, which is

00:47:45   like, just choose to do the

00:47:47   better thing.

00:47:48   And it's like, OK,

00:47:51   thanks. Thanks, man.

00:47:52   I'll be sure to do that.

00:47:53   That one is that one is

00:47:55   just astounding. Yeah.

00:47:56   But there's many people at

00:47:58   conferences and children and like these these are all like tropes of this genre

00:48:01   but this one has so many weird ones and it's like by the end I start feeling

00:48:07   almost personally offended by the constant refrain of just do the thing

00:48:15   that will make your life better and it's like screw you buddy like that is that

00:48:19   is not an answer like that is not an action right you can't like the way to

00:48:22   to love your wife is just love her.

00:48:24   Right? Like, OK, right, whatever.

00:48:26   Chill, dude.

00:48:27   It's like, all right.

00:48:29   Do you want to love her?

00:48:30   What's your problem?

00:48:30   Let's talk about the habits.

00:48:34   I have more of these things to talk about as we go through,

00:48:37   but I want to start talking about the habits.

00:48:39   But yeah, let's-- if we don't start talking about the habits--

00:48:41   We're never going to get to them.

00:48:42   --we will never stop.

00:48:43   We'll never get to them.

00:48:44   So let's go through this.

00:48:46   Again, I want to just state my position.

00:48:48   I am infuriated by all of these things.

00:48:50   I am so angry about the things that happen in this book like that, but I didn't find

00:48:54   myself just losing my mind like I did with the Emith. Because I feel like in Emith they

00:48:58   were just relentless and I feel at least there were some breaks here where he was talking

00:49:03   about some interesting stuff and I do believe that this book has more than just one thing

00:49:07   to take away from it.

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00:51:03   The habits are broken down into two and a half categories.

00:51:07   The first three are classified as private victory,

00:51:11   and or independence, and then four to six

00:51:14   are classified as public victory, or interdependence,

00:51:16   which is working with others, and the seventh habit

00:51:19   is just about renewing all of the sixth.

00:51:22   So it's an interesting structure,

00:51:25   and I actually quite like the structure.

00:51:26   So the first three are classified as proactivity,

00:51:30   beginning with the end in mind,

00:51:32   and putting first things first.

00:51:33   So habit one is proactivity, and the idea,

00:51:36   And there's a great summary on Wikipedia for each of these, and I pulled some of that out

00:51:41   just to try and give a concise explanation for them.

00:51:44   So be proactive in understanding your circle of influence and your circle of concern.

00:51:50   So the things that you can influence about yourself and the people that you need to be

00:51:54   concerned about, the things that you need to try and change, and not to just sit and

00:51:58   wait in a reactive mode, waiting for problems to happen, before you take action.

00:52:02   You should be out there and taking action.

00:52:04   And a lot of it is about understanding the language that you use and the way that you

00:52:07   think about things.

00:52:09   So I really liked this one example of saying things instead of "I have to do something",

00:52:15   you say that you choose to do something or instead of "I wish I had done this" to "I

00:52:20   can be this" or "I can do this".

00:52:23   And I really like this as a start because it was like saying to me, the reader, "Think

00:52:29   about yourself, think about the way that you approach problems, think about the way that

00:52:33   approach opportunities and how you refer to them and try and understand the things that you're able

00:52:40   to change and the things that you are able to kind of influence to change. And I found it to be an

00:52:46   interesting way to start off and it's something that I know that in my life I have gotten better

00:52:52   about over time but there was definitely a period of time for me when I was in bank branch management

00:53:00   where I was not being proactive and I was more focused on the fact that these bad things are just happening to me

00:53:06   and I'm not, you know, and there's nothing I can do about it

00:53:10   rather than what I ended up working out later was like why am I doing this? I don't like this

00:53:14   I need to go out and change something

00:53:16   so I did actually quite like this, it felt like a good start

00:53:19   it was just a shame that it started at two hours and 22 minutes

00:53:22   yeah, just a small note before we move on

00:53:25   on. While you did note that the first habit comes in at two hours and whatever minutes,

00:53:31   one of the remarks that I have here in my highlights is the first promotion of the Stephen

00:53:37   Covey business starts at exactly one minute into the book.

00:53:41   So there was a little bit of a thing to notice there.

00:53:45   Yeah, this is interesting because in the actual book, there's not a lot of it, right? Because

00:53:51   he's talking more about being a teacher because that's what he was when he was writing

00:53:55   this book, mostly. But the foreword is after this book has changed his life and he is now

00:54:03   a management consultant, right? So he's doing these seminars and stuff which he mentions

00:54:07   in the book, but like if I'm reading it correctly, like it wasn't what it ended

00:54:12   up becoming. Like he doesn't make reference to the Covey business empire based upon the

00:54:19   the seven habits during the book because it doesn't exist yet, but the forward is full

00:54:24   of it, which is hilarious.

00:54:25   Right, yeah, it comes right out of the gate.

00:54:28   But I thought that was just kind of funny, and it's whatever.

00:54:31   But I also agree, the first chapter was interesting, and I'll say in fairness to the book, I think

00:54:39   if it catches you at the right moment in your life, I genuinely think that that first chapter

00:54:44   can open up a bunch of people's minds to the way that they think about things.

00:54:47   purely the language stuff like that

00:54:50   I found to be the most interesting, one of the most interesting things of the entire book actually for me

00:54:56   Because it really made me think about huh, how do I say this stuff and why do I say it that way?

00:55:02   Yeah, you know like I have to do this. Why do I have to do anything? I can choose right, right?

00:55:08   I found it really interesting

00:55:09   Yeah, it was and it reminded me of a little language thing which of course was like a totally hopeless lost cause as a teacher

00:55:17   But when I used to have kids come up and say like,

00:55:19   "Oh, I gave them a bad grade."

00:55:21   I would always use the language of like,

00:55:23   "No, you earned a bad grade."

00:55:25   Or like, "I didn't give you a bad grade,

00:55:28   like you earned a bad grade."

00:55:30   Just because again--

00:55:31   - You didn't turn in a good paper

00:55:32   that I ended up changing until it became bad.

00:55:34   Right, like it wasn't that bad when you gave it to me.

00:55:37   - Yeah, and just changing a little bit

00:55:40   of the language around that.

00:55:41   It's like you are an active participant in this process.

00:55:45   you're not just sitting there and I'm handing out grades like there's a thing that's happening between the two of us.

00:55:51   And I do, like I said, I think if you're at the right stage in your life that this might just catch you in the right moment.

00:56:01   And I don't know what the timeline of this is, but I was just wondering because a lot of this reminded me of,

00:56:10   I have a relative who is a psychologist and works with like people who've been through some trauma and unwinding them about that and talking about the process of

00:56:20   teaching people to interrupt their own thoughts, like teaching people to catch themselves

00:56:25   thinking in terms of the world is doing something to them versus you are an actor in the world.

00:56:31   And it's just, it's very interesting, like I talked to her about like, it sounds very interesting, like the way that she works with people to say like,

00:56:38   Like if you have a fear of heights, like how do you work someone out through that?

00:56:43   And part of it is like this change of you are an actor in the world, like you are not

00:56:48   the result of all of the actions upon you.

00:56:52   So it was just kind of reminding me about this thing.

00:56:56   I've gone through some of that sort of stuff and read some of it.

00:56:58   It's cognitive behavioral therapy.

00:57:00   Like I've looked into some of that at times in my life.

00:57:02   Like when I was struggling with some of my work stuff, this was a great help to me, was

00:57:08   going through some of this stuff because there are some very valuable things in that. The

00:57:14   idea of understanding that you can't control everything, things happen, and how do you

00:57:19   react to them and how do you change the way that you think and say stuff to be better

00:57:23   in the world? It is a very powerful thing. When Habit One was being read to me by Mr.

00:57:30   Covey himself, I was reminded of a lot of these types of learnings and it was like,

00:57:36   Okay, this is good.

00:57:37   That's interesting.

00:57:38   Okay, so you saw the similarities to that too.

00:57:40   Yeah, I did.

00:57:41   I've only just heard about this in like a secondhand way and I just think like, oh,

00:57:44   okay, this sounds like a very similar idea.

00:57:46   And at least talking to my family member who does this, it seems like if you've got serious

00:57:50   business about behavior change in humans, this seems to be one of the most effective

00:57:53   ways to go about it.

00:57:54   Like as far as we know right now.

00:57:56   I also, I did just really like the, I think there is a way that he phrased something,

00:58:03   which is a better way of phrasing an idea that you and I have sometimes spoken about,

00:58:07   like how we don't really follow the news, right, or intentionally not following a whole

00:58:11   bunch of things.

00:58:13   And I'm always trying to encourage people to just sort of, I don't want to say like,

00:58:20   be less aware of the world, but in a sense, I kind of am like, focus on the things that

00:58:23   you can do.

00:58:24   But I did really like his phrasing of this idea that everybody has this circle of things

00:58:30   that they're concerned about, and that circle is larger than the things that you can influence.

00:58:37   And I did think that language change was is an interesting way to frame it because it's like,

00:58:42   oh, of course, people get trapped and caught up in constantly thinking about the things that are

00:58:50   inside their circle of concern, but that are outside their circle of influence. And I just,

00:58:57   I thought like that's a really interesting way to differently frame this idea.

00:59:04   And I think that is also again like,

00:59:06   maybe for a person at the right moment that idea can be really liberating to recognize that like,

00:59:13   yes, there are many things you may be concerned about over which you have absolutely no influence.

00:59:19   And so you have to make a decision about not obsessively thinking about that stuff,

00:59:25   or working to expand your circle of influence so that you can actually do something about it

00:59:31   that is no longer outside of your power.

00:59:34   So I thought that was also a good way to frame this concept of selective ignorance in a way.

00:59:43   Habit two is begin with the end in mind.

00:59:47   Now, I thought that this habit went off the rails incredibly quickly, but turn me around.

00:59:53   So this habit is about envisioning what you want in the future so you can plan

00:59:58   and work towards it and to be effect and the idea is to be effective you need to

01:00:03   act based on principles and constantly reviewing a mission statement that you

01:00:07   create. So there are two main things in this part which is one the envisioning

01:00:12   of the future and then the second is the mission statement. Now I it was really

01:00:17   interesting to me because these things were both introduced and my mind was

01:00:22   changed about each of them in a 180. So the first is the way he begins talking about envisioning

01:00:27   your future is, let's picture your funeral. And my eyes nearly rolled right out of my

01:00:32   head.

01:00:33   I know. Yeah, I had the exact same experience of like, ugh.

01:00:38   And the idea is, what would you like to hear people say about you? Like, and the idea is

01:00:44   someone that you work with, someone who would talk about your character and someone who

01:00:47   would be a friend or family member. And what difference would you like to have on people's

01:00:51   lives and he says to work out like you know write down what you would want and by the end of this

01:00:57   whilst he was clearly going for a shock factor with the let's picture your funeral

01:01:02   i found it an interesting exercise because trying to think about what do i want to be thought as

01:01:11   people that i work with people that i care about how do i want them to think of me like how would

01:01:19   I want them to describe me? It doesn't need to be at my funeral, right? But that was a

01:01:23   bit too much. But what what do and I found that to be…

01:01:27   Memento mori, Myke. I found that to be an interesting exercise

01:01:32   that I took something from, right? Like I wrote some stuff down and I was like, I like

01:01:37   this. This is a good thing to think about because then how does that affect your life

01:01:43   and the things that you do? Like if you want to be by the end of your life seen as these

01:01:48   three or four things, how do you get there?

01:01:50   And what path do you take to make sure you don't deviate from them?

01:01:53   I found that to be very interesting. So beginning with the end in mind,

01:01:57   so setting up your plan now for how you want to be seen at the end.

01:02:02   I kind of like that.

01:02:03   Yeah. I also, I couldn't deal with the funeral thing.

01:02:08   It was too much. It was silly.

01:02:09   Yeah. And for me it's, it's overblown and like weirdly pompous in a way.

01:02:15   like oh you're surrounded by all these loving people nobody has a better thing to do on a Tuesday afternoon than go to your funeral, right?

01:02:22   It's like whatever

01:02:24   But again, it does have a point and

01:02:29   There's a way of

01:02:33   I think the life scale is too big

01:02:36   but it is an interesting question when people are working on projects of

01:02:40   I kind of like to phrase it like what's the best thing that could possibly come out of what you're working on right now?

01:02:46   Like if everything went absolutely great,

01:02:48   what's the biggest possible upside of this thing that you're working on? And very often like if you sort of think about

01:02:55   that you can realize that some projects just aren't worth spending the time on.

01:03:00   But people can end up starting them. I think because they're sort of skipping this idea of

01:03:06   thinking about what does the final version of this look like.

01:03:10   So yeah, I think that

01:03:13   the whole arc of your life doesn't really work for me,

01:03:17   but I think this is a valuable concept on a smaller scale of have a clear idea in your mind of what you're trying to

01:03:24   achieve

01:03:25   and that will help direct your actions towards what it is you actually want to need to do in order to make that happen.

01:03:33   Then the second part of this is the personal mission statement, which is the thing that you create and adapt and update

01:03:39   Throughout your life to try and keep you on the course towards what you want to be remembered for

01:03:43   And I was like that's an interesting idea until the personal mission statement became

01:03:49   three to four to five to six to seven paragraphs long I

01:03:52   Was expecting a sentence or two?

01:03:55   Right like a real kind of like a thing you put on the wall and you could look at it every day and be like

01:04:01   that's what I want to be. But these personal mission statements were like novella length

01:04:06   for each person that was talking about them, and it completely lost me, right?

01:04:10   - It's not surprising, like, Covey's not a brief guy, right? So it's not surprising that his

01:04:16   personal mission statement would be like, "Let's sit down and write a little novella."

01:04:19   - But then, like, every example he was giving for these totally 100% real people was the same,

01:04:25   right? And it was like, it was so frustrating to me because it built me up, right, to this idea

01:04:31   I was like, I am on board with this. This is really great. And then it was like, you've

01:04:35   destroyed it because I don't want to have to sit on a beach for an hour like you do

01:04:41   every year to write my mission statement. Like, this is something that if I'm going

01:04:46   to do this, I want it to be a short thing. He actually at one point compares it in length

01:04:50   and importance to the American Constitution.

01:04:52   Yeah, that's great. Yep.

01:04:54   Right? It's like, do you understand that maybe you've gone too far at this point?

01:05:00   And also that's that's probably a big ask

01:05:02   Like someone who's reading this book and is trying to turn their life around you're like look just sit down and write a constitution for you

01:05:08   Yeah, like whoa

01:05:10   So again like that I might

01:05:14   Take this and twist it right and and because I have now the things that I think about right like what?

01:05:21   What do I want to be remembered as maybe I should try and turn that into something which is a bit little bit more realistic

01:05:26   For me, so it's like this again. This is why

01:05:29   I am a little bit more on board with this book than Emeth because you know

01:05:34   We're not that far into it and I've come away with some things that whilst not perfect. I actually think work pretty well

01:05:40   Mm-hmm, you know like the circle of influence circle concern

01:05:43   I think is is very interesting and it it perfectly explains something that I struggle to explain to people same way that you do

01:05:50   And the idea of beginning with the end in mind and kind of how you want to move towards

01:05:57   Creating something which can encapsulate that there's some interesting stuff in that for me before we move on Myke though before we get on to habit

01:06:03   Three I just want to pause here for a moment to point out that habit two is when Stephen Covey

01:06:08   Visits the same magic hotel. Yes, that is in email three visit it

01:06:13   When I got to this point

01:06:16   It I actually had almost like a childish glee of like oh my god. It's another magic hotel. I'm sitting on the airplane

01:06:23   I'm like

01:06:25   I think I was walking through Covent Garden and I think I started laughing out loud when

01:06:31   he when he was talking about his magic hotel. Our favorite part of the E-Myth revisited

01:06:37   is this hotel that the author goes to which is completely fictional, cannot exist in real

01:06:41   life. I did some digging. Apparently this hotel is a chain and it does exist. But again,

01:06:47   I don't believe that it goes the way that it does where this hotel created their own

01:06:51   personal mission statement, which is funnily enough is the same vernacular that he uses

01:06:55   when the book has not been published, because apparently that's a thing.

01:06:58   And that literally everybody in the company, from the housekeeping to the janitors to the

01:07:04   bellboys to the everything, everybody sat down and was 100% engaged in creating this

01:07:10   personal mission statement.

01:07:11   Like don't lie to me.

01:07:13   Tell me if this thing exists, that's fine.

01:07:15   But it wasn't like that.

01:07:17   It just doesn't work like that.

01:07:19   Yeah, there's several things here.

01:07:21   I mean, according to the book, this mission statement for the hotel was the hub of a great wheel.

01:07:27   It spawned the thoughtful, more specialized mission statements of particular groups and employees.

01:07:31   And it was used as the criteria for every decision that was made.

01:07:35   It clarified what people stood for, how they related to the customers, how they related to each other.

01:07:40   This is one of these moments, and there's an example that happens a few pages earlier, which is a similar thing,

01:07:47   which, I don't know how to describe it, but I think of it as a kind of CEO disease,

01:07:52   where, okay, let's say this hotel existed,

01:07:54   and let's say the hotel got everybody from the janitors to the CEO together,

01:07:59   and they did all work on a mission statement, and a document was created.

01:08:04   Right?

01:08:04   I don't know about you, but my experience doing that kind of stuff,

01:08:10   like when I was working for someone,

01:08:11   is that the rank-and-file employees are all thinking,

01:08:15   Like, this is a total BS day where we have to have a silly pointless meeting.

01:08:20   And the people on top seem to think that something amazing has occurred,

01:08:23   and there's like a great difference in the experience of what people think is happening in the room.

01:08:30   Right? And so it's like, even if this happens and I believe it,

01:08:34   it's like, I just don't believe that the janitors at the hotel are like,

01:08:38   "You know what? I feel really on board with the value and position of this hotel."

01:08:42   Like, I just don't believe that.

01:08:44   I think the janitors are busy thinking like, "Man, I got a lot of stuff to clean up today,

01:08:48   and this meeting is just making me have to stay after hours to work longer."

01:08:52   Like, I think that's what's really happening when this occurs.

01:08:55   The closest I've ever gotten to this is I worked for a company when I was in college,

01:09:00   where it's a big company, it's a big department store chain in the UK,

01:09:05   where they distribute the company's profits to the employees.

01:09:11   OK, right there, that is genuinely meaningful.

01:09:13   Right. That's a different thing because it's not like words on a page.

01:09:17   It's money in your pocket.

01:09:18   So this is a huge company, make a lot of money.

01:09:21   And every year, every single person gets a bonus,

01:09:24   which is a percentage of their salary from interesting.

01:09:28   The person who is pushing shopping carts

01:09:32   through the parking lot to the CEO.

01:09:35   Everybody gets the same percentage.

01:09:37   Obviously, the amount differs, but everybody gets the same percentage.

01:09:41   that percent it shrinks or grows depending on how well the company does.

01:09:44   And I saw things in that working for that company that I have never seen since.

01:09:48   Like, for example, the last person who leaves the staff changing room

01:09:53   turns the lights off at night because the electricity bill goes towards the bonus.

01:09:56   Like little things like that, where I saw a lot more buy in in that company

01:10:02   than I've seen in any other company, because there is an actual thing

01:10:06   that you can point to to show that if we all work towards this together, we get something.

01:10:13   Yeah. That is a perfect example of what I always feel is like what really matters is it's not words,

01:10:21   it's not trying harder, it's a structure that encourages or rewards the actual behavior that

01:10:27   you want. And in this book, it's so clear that it's like, if you're the leader of a company,

01:10:35   your words are just our magic pixie dust that's spread on your employees and then they just behave

01:10:40   in ways that you want them to do. It's like that is not the way it is and yeah your description of

01:10:45   that is interesting. That's like oh look if you set up an actual structure that encourages the

01:10:49   behavior that you want you're probably going to get more of the behavior that you want but the

01:10:53   thing is like that might cost you in other ways right you can't just say costless words and get

01:11:00   get the same result.

01:11:01   Habit three, put first things

01:11:06   first.

01:11:07   So this talks about the difference between leadership and management.

01:11:10   Leadership in the outside world begins with personal vision and personal

01:11:13   leadership. And it also talks about all of that stuff.

01:11:16   Leadership and management. I have no time for it.

01:11:18   I've heard too much of it. I can't talk about it.

01:11:20   I have literally no personal notes about that entire part of the book

01:11:24   because I could give a crap about the difference between leadership and

01:11:27   management.

01:11:28   Yeah, right.

01:11:29   Yeah, this kind of stuff is like skim, skim, skim.

01:11:32   But for me, habit three, put first things first.

01:11:35   This is where when I say my review was one good idea

01:11:38   in a thousand pages, this is the chapter that to me

01:11:41   had the one good idea.

01:11:43   - Yes, and I, when I was reading it--

01:11:46   - You know what I'm going for?

01:11:47   - I knew you were gonna like this.

01:11:49   - Right, okay, yeah.

01:11:50   So I don't know if this is, here's a question.

01:11:53   I don't know if this is original to Stephen Covey.

01:11:55   I was trying to do a little bit of digging around

01:11:59   and it seems like this idea predates him,

01:12:01   but it doesn't matter because this is the first place

01:12:03   that I came across this idea

01:12:05   where he talks about time management matrix.

01:12:10   And the time management matrix is this four by four grid

01:12:14   where you talk about all of you,

01:12:17   everything that you have to do,

01:12:19   you can categorize in a couple of ways, right?

01:12:21   You have things that are urgent and things

01:12:24   that are not urgent, and you have things that are important,

01:12:28   and you have things that are not important.

01:12:30   So you can think about your tasks in that way,

01:12:33   and that ends up with what he labels

01:12:35   as these little boxes, right?

01:12:36   So like box one is stuff that is urgent and important, right?

01:12:41   And then you have like box three is stuff that is urgent,

01:12:44   but not important.

01:12:46   And you can move around all these different categories.

01:12:48   And this is the thing that I really like

01:12:51   because it's a clear way

01:12:56   to frame your work that I think is non-obvious to lots of people.

01:13:02   And the idea that it is so easy to get sucked up into work that is urgent, but not important,

01:13:13   like this is a death trap of productivity.

01:13:16   And I remember really trying to apply this in a whole bunch of ways,

01:13:21   and really feeling like I get this idea that in order to make significant progress,

01:13:29   you're going to have to drop a bunch of stuff that is urgent but not important,

01:13:34   and instead just focus on the things that are not urgent but are important.

01:13:40   Like there's trade-offs.

01:13:42   You're going to have to let some stuff slide.

01:13:44   And here is a good matrix for making a decision about,

01:13:49   In the universe of the infinite number of things that you can do, these are the things

01:13:53   that you should drop.

01:13:54   And this is the one section of the book that I think benefits from.

01:13:57   He has more concrete examples here where he's talking about like you're having a conversation

01:14:03   with someone and then the phone rings while you're talking to them.

01:14:05   Like the phone is the thing that is urgent, but the person that you're talking to is important,

01:14:10   but it's incredibly hard for almost everybody to like resist the ringing of the phone.

01:14:14   And he goes through a bunch of these things.

01:14:16   I think it's really good.

01:14:18   And I also like he's talking about this idea that a lot of these longer term things that

01:14:26   you can work on that are not urgent but important are also the things that give you more time

01:14:32   later because you're establishing a much more solid foundation about how your routine and

01:14:37   how your work life goes.

01:14:38   And so this to me is like the core of the book is this little section which is at the

01:14:43   the end of of habit three and I think it's the the most valuable

01:14:48   per page section of the book. So I did really like this. I

01:14:53   liked the idea of one of the things that comes out of this

01:14:57   is learning to be able to say no to things right from knowing

01:15:01   that you have a better yes available to you. Yeah. Yeah.

01:15:06   I loved I mean I've heard a million times and said a

01:15:09   million times about being able to say no and understanding

01:15:12   how to be able to say no and actually saying no.

01:15:15   But the idea of the second part of that,

01:15:17   which is because you know there are better yeses

01:15:20   available to you, is very interesting to me.

01:15:23   Like understanding what is important to you

01:15:26   so you can help better gauge opportunities.

01:15:29   Like if you get something that comes to you

01:15:31   which is urgent but not important,

01:15:33   and you can say no to it, say no to it

01:15:35   because there might be something that is urgent

01:15:37   and important that you will need to deal with soon.

01:15:40   And like a lot of these, like meetings.

01:15:42   many meetings that might come up.

01:15:44   You could probably say no to.

01:15:46   Right, like you maybe don't need to be at that meeting

01:15:48   because you have something that you know is gonna be there

01:15:51   which is important for you.

01:15:52   So the idea of knowing you have better yeses available,

01:15:55   understanding what is important to you

01:15:57   and what is urgent to you and focus on those things

01:16:00   and then finding ways to delegate

01:16:02   and or not do the other stuff,

01:16:04   very powerful way of thinking about it.

01:16:06   And you know, drawing out this grid,

01:16:09   the time management matrix that he talks about.

01:16:12   I've drawn it out in my Apple notes as he was explaining it

01:16:15   and I liked the way that that all looked.

01:16:17   It's difficult to explain but simple to see

01:16:19   and you can find this stuff and I'll find some links

01:16:21   and put them into the notes so you can see

01:16:22   what it looks like 'cause if you can actually see it,

01:16:25   it starts to make a lot more sense.

01:16:27   The rest of this chapter though, a lot of it,

01:16:30   maybe like two thirds of it is talking

01:16:32   about time management methods.

01:16:34   Didn't listen, didn't care.

01:16:35   It was just happening to me.

01:16:37   I'm not interested in a book from 1989 talking to me about time management because the tools

01:16:44   are not the same anymore. And I know some of the fundamental purposes and the fundamental

01:16:49   ideas will be the same. But here's at points talking about specific functions and tools

01:16:54   and like planners and notebooks. It's like, no. Like I might or might not use something

01:16:59   like this, but there are better systems out there now, stuff like bullet journaling, which

01:17:03   I'm more interested in looking at than listening to Stephen Carrey in 1989 telling me how to manage my time.

01:17:09   I feel like a pre-internet age book is maybe not the best place to get this stuff from.

01:17:15   Yeah, no, it's not good for this stuff. And while I do really like that section and you know

01:17:21   it's maybe like three or four pages where he's going through how to think about this,

01:17:25   then I feel like oh the book briefly elevates to something good and then it quickly descends because at the end

01:17:31   There's a section where he's posing the question to himself about like, "But how do you know what is important?"

01:17:38   And like, "That's a good question."

01:17:40   "How do you know what is important in your life?" And the answer is,

01:17:44   "Your principal center, your self-awareness, and your consciousness can provide a high degree of intrinsic security, guidance, and wisdom

01:17:51   to empower you to use your independent will and maintain integrity to that which is truly important."

01:18:00   Go to hell, man. Right? Like, that's not an ant. Like, you'll just-- like, this is again, like, the recurring theme of, like,

01:18:06   you'll just make good decisions. Like, oh, you'll just know what's truly-- it was like, ugh.

01:18:11   Like, don't say anything if you're gonna say that, because you might as well not say anything and it infuriates me. But yeah, it--

01:18:17   the-- after that section, like, the chapter rapidly descends, and I do have to say we're up to-- we're up to

01:18:25   Habit 3 and from from this point on the book to me descends rapidly into worthlessness like I think

01:18:33   99% of the value is in the first three chapters and you could take those three first three chapters and decrease them by

01:18:42   75% and get out out from the book most of what you're gonna get out of it

01:18:48   Okay

01:18:49   So I mostly agree with you and I wonder if this is a thing about me and you as opposed to the book

01:18:55   Okay, what do you mean?

01:18:58   The first three chapters are focused mostly on working on your own skills and how you

01:19:05   make yourself more effective. The next three are about working with other people in what

01:19:14   seems to be focused on large groups and lots of people. And I think that there is a lot

01:19:21   of this stuff which is like how are you more effective in a business meeting with 12 people

01:19:26   in the room? How are you more effective in doing a deal with a multinational corporation?

01:19:31   Like things that I think that me and you have mostly moved away from in our lives because

01:19:37   that's not the type of work that interests us. Like we are more focused on being independent

01:19:42   and having our own small businesses as opposed to being a cog in a huge machine. Which I think

01:19:48   habits four, five, and six seem to focus a lot more on.

01:19:53   Like they seem to be really focused

01:19:55   on working in a corporation.

01:19:58   That's what I'm trying to get to with this.

01:19:59   Like they seem to be way more focused

01:20:02   on how do you become the best employee

01:20:07   out of the 10,000 employees of your company.

01:20:10   And I wonder if maybe me and you don't take so much from this

01:20:14   'cause I don't, I didn't really,

01:20:16   All of the stuff that I like is in one, two, and three.

01:20:19   Four, five, and six.

01:20:20   There are some nuggets in there that are interesting,

01:20:22   but there is like one or two of the habits

01:20:25   that are just completely pointless to me.

01:20:27   And I wonder if it's just something about

01:20:30   how me and you think, or if they are mostly that way.

01:20:33   I don't know.

01:20:35   - Yeah, there is something to that,

01:20:36   that this is less focused to us.

01:20:40   It's funny, I didn't so much get the feeling

01:20:42   that this is necessarily part of being a very large group.

01:20:46   I, obviously the whole point of the next three is,

01:20:49   it is about working with people,

01:20:51   but I didn't have that feeling so much that it's like,

01:20:54   you're a cog in this machine.

01:20:56   Maybe it's partly because he's so still much incredibly

01:20:59   talking about his family, like in win-win solutions for him

01:21:01   and his wife and his children.

01:21:03   - There is a possibility that I'm applying this

01:21:05   to things that I have experienced.

01:21:07   - Yeah, that you're thinking of it in this way.

01:21:09   But I also think that it,

01:21:13   the ratio of the idea to the practicality of it

01:21:19   drops to absolutely nothing.

01:21:21   Like the Win-Win chapter in particular.

01:21:23   - This is Habit 4 Think Win-Win.

01:21:25   - Yeah, Habit 4 Think Win-Win

01:21:27   has some of the most crazy stories in terms of

01:21:31   the way to come up with win-win solutions

01:21:34   is to have a great win-win solution for everybody.

01:21:38   And that's just over and over again, where it's like,

01:21:41   oh, there's two people who didn't agree,

01:21:43   but then someone came up with a win-win solution

01:21:45   that served them both.

01:21:46   And there's something that, to me,

01:21:47   that felt so artificially constructed about these scenarios.

01:21:52   And it's like, man, most of the time,

01:21:53   if you're having a real disagreement with someone,

01:21:55   it's like the hard part is finding a win-win solution.

01:21:59   It's not the idea of, gee, I wish there was something

01:22:02   that both of us could get out of this.

01:22:03   Like it's, I found that these next chapters

01:22:07   have very, very little actionableness in them and it goes into real crazy town of like,

01:22:13   things are good when they're good and do the right stuff.

01:22:18   There was a lot of Habit 4, think Win-Win, that was gibberish to me, mostly.

01:22:24   The amount of different win-lose, lose-win, lose-lose-win, lose-lose-lose-lose, I couldn't

01:22:28   follow it.

01:22:29   I couldn't follow it.

01:22:31   It reminded me, there is a scene in The Office, I think it's like a whole episode.

01:22:34   Oh my God, I was thinking of the exact same thing.

01:22:37   Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

01:22:38   When?

01:22:39   Like it's like, they must have got it from this book.

01:22:41   I can't imagine any other way, but it's the idea is balancing decisions and actions in such a way that everybody benefits and that relationships don't get damaged.

01:22:52   So you get what you want or relationships don't get damaged because you've given in to somebody else.

01:22:56   There is something interesting in that, um, which is, oh, it relates to something that I did.

01:23:02   We didn't talk about, which is the emotional bank account.

01:23:04   The emotional bank account is something a part of Habit 3. This is one of the many ideas

01:23:11   that Covey creates. However, whilst again he goes on way too long talking about this,

01:23:17   the idea of the emotional bank account I found to be an interesting one. And it is the idea

01:23:21   is that the amount of trust that you build as somebody helps you work with them in whatever

01:23:27   it is in your life. Family, business relationships. And you make deposits to the bank account

01:23:32   through doing good things and you make withdrawals from the emotional bank account through mistakes

01:23:36   that you make, bad things that you do, but they're just withdrawals because you've made

01:23:40   so many deposits that they just take a little bit from it rather than destroying everything.

01:23:44   This is the emotional bank account. Again, I liked it when he proposed it, but by the

01:23:48   end of the book, I'd heard it too many times. But he applies the win-win idea to the emotional

01:23:53   bank account because if you are not thinking in a win-win scenario, you may withdraw too

01:23:58   much from the bank account because people are losing, that kind of idea.

01:24:01   These two things they marry into each other in a way of trying to make sure

01:24:05   that you balance decisions so that everybody remains happy and trustful in

01:24:11   a relationship with some description. But the win-win stuff it's like he

01:24:16   could have actually spoken about it in five minutes but instead he took an hour

01:24:19   and a half. Like there is too much stuff in this and it becomes baffling to

01:24:25   understand by the time that he's done with it. Like just like I don't I had I

01:24:30   tried and could not get my head around it. But the idea effectively is just if

01:24:36   everybody wins, it's better for everybody's happiness in the long term.

01:24:39   Like you don't want to shaft somebody now because later on you may lose their

01:24:44   business, you know. And he gives some wild examples of huge deals he left on the

01:24:50   table and then companies come back and give them every penny that they've ever

01:24:54   made just for the pleasure of working with him. But I will say in my work, in my business,

01:25:01   part of what I do is advertising sales. I have always tried to work in this way of like if you

01:25:07   try and have a good relationship with people they're maybe going to be more likely to come

01:25:11   back to you in the future and if you maybe try and squeeze every penny out of somebody

01:25:16   you may harm the relationship. Like that is the nugget here which is interesting

01:25:21   But the problem with this habit, with this chapter, is it's incredibly overblown to the point of almost nonsensical-ness.

01:25:29   Yeah, and it's all there's also something about this chapter which strikes me as

01:25:33   This may be unfair, but it strikes me a little bit as like let's just teach murderers not to murder

01:25:40   Like I think people who are really focused on the idea of like I'm gonna I'm gonna screw over my business partners to get every

01:25:46   last penny today

01:25:47   Like I don't I don't think those people you're gonna do a great job of explaining the concept of long-term human relationships

01:25:54   I think people are

01:25:56   Again, like in my experience in business business as well as like people are already naturally on board with this idea or they aren't and I

01:26:03   just don't think there's a lot of

01:26:06   Motion across the aisle on this topic. So it strikes me as a like a somewhat pointless topic

01:26:14   Today's episode of Cortex is brought to you by timing the automatic time tracking app for Mac

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01:28:43   Habit 5, seek first to understand, then to be understood. Use empathetic listening to

01:28:49   genuinely understand a person which compels them to reciprocate the listening and take

01:28:54   an open mind to being influenced by you.

01:28:57   Okay, so if I was going to say the one interesting thing in this, diagnose before you prescribe.

01:29:03   all this needs to be. He explains it pretty well with another ludicrous example of how

01:29:08   like everyone in his town was at a football game and the only doctor they had and his

01:29:15   daughter was sick and she was a newborn and there was medicine. Like it was this wild

01:29:19   thing that explains the idea of before you try and tell someone what to do, listen to

01:29:24   them first. That's kind of it. But it is massively overblown. Ethos, pathos and logos comes

01:29:31   up at one point. I didn't get what that was all about. The whole idea of empathetic

01:29:36   listening is interesting. You know, you mimic what somebody says, rephrase it, reflect the

01:29:42   feelings, right? So like you're listening to what people are saying, you're showing

01:29:45   them that you're listening by repeating to them what they're saying, etc, etc. There's

01:29:49   some interesting stuff in there. But this has one of the most overblown examples that

01:29:58   he gives, I've been saving for this moment.

01:30:00   Which is when he is talking to his son about being a mechanic.

01:30:04   Oh god, okay.

01:30:07   Do you remember this one?

01:30:09   I'm trying to remember because this one was one of the like, I'm skipping the fastest

01:30:15   through here because I know it's like, yeah, I'm on board with the idea of trying to understand

01:30:20   someone before you do these things and I was having a hard time.

01:30:25   So start me with the mechanic story because I'm not remembering it off the top of my

01:30:27   head. So he's saying about, I think he, I don't remember if he's saying this is his son or he's

01:30:34   just creating an example, right, of, and I think he might mention this at one point, about a kid

01:30:41   who, yeah, he does actually say like this is one, he's just posing an idea here, right,

01:30:47   it's like maybe imagine this happening, a kid who comes to their father and doesn't want to go to

01:30:52   school anymore and says I don't want to go to school anymore and he plays out this conversation

01:30:57   He plays both sides of his conversation and the kid is like "I don't want to go to school"

01:31:02   and the dad's like "well we worked really hard to send you to school" and like etc etc

01:31:06   and he's playing not only both of these people but also this like Greek chorus of explaining

01:31:11   the imagination and mind of how each people were feeling at this moment of like... and

01:31:19   And then he plays it again, but speaking both as the child, but also as the child's inner

01:31:28   monologue at that moment of being like, "He doesn't want to listen to me. Why does he

01:31:34   hate me?" And then plays this other way of like, if you did it with empathic listening,

01:31:41   how it would improve the situation to the point where the kid who doesn't want to go

01:31:45   go to school because he's talking about like there's a friend of his or like a friend of

01:31:50   a family who's become a mechanic and they've done well and they didn't go to school. Why

01:31:53   don't I do that? This is like how the first two examples of this goes and it's like being

01:31:58   a mechanic is ridiculous. You need to go and be a lawyer. I don't know why Covey hates

01:32:01   mechanics so much, but apparently he does.

01:32:03   He kind of. He's super weird.

01:32:06   Really hates mechanics. It's very strange. Almost as much as he hates television. Also

01:32:11   very strange. Like he's talking about like, "Oh, don't be a mechanic." And then it gets

01:32:16   to a point where the final way where the father is using empathic listening, the kid is explaining,

01:32:23   "Oh, but you know, I want to be a mechanic." And then the dad's like, "But does Joey have

01:32:28   such a great life?" And the kid's like, "I don't know," to the point where the kid also

01:32:32   hates mechanics, and he loves school. It's like, this isn't how this conversation would

01:32:36   go, it genuinely ends though with him saying, owning up to the fact that this is probably

01:32:43   not how this conversation would go. Like, that's how he finishes this, it's like a

01:32:47   20 minute thing and he's like, I know, he's like, I have created this example and I know

01:32:51   maybe this isn't how it would go and there are a bunch of different ways that it could

01:32:54   go, but this is how empathic listening might help. Like, oh my god, this is so ridiculous

01:32:59   that he can't even finish it by owning, like, by like owning it, he has to own up to the

01:33:05   the fact that this is probably not how this conversation would play out. Like, why are

01:33:09   we doing this then? This was one of the most wild in the book. Like, I really, I'm like

01:33:16   listening to it and I just couldn't understand why he felt the requirement to do it in this

01:33:22   way.

01:33:23   Yeah, I remember now going through this and just being confused at the multiple, like,

01:33:28   I just, I don't understand what's happening here. Like, I'm just listening to this thing

01:33:32   and my brain's not fully paying attention.

01:33:34   And it's like, "Wait a minute. Is this the same story again?

01:33:37   Like, am I going senile or is he going senile?"

01:33:39   Like, I just remember this being like a weird, confusing mess.

01:33:43   It's like, "Is there some kind of art project happening in the middle of this book?"

01:33:45   Like, I don't get it.

01:33:47   [laughs]

01:33:48   Habit 6.

01:33:50   -Synergize. -Synergize.

01:33:52   Oh.

01:33:53   This is maximum crazy.

01:33:56   This is maximum crazy in the book.

01:33:58   This is where it goes off the rails in just an amazing way because here

01:34:03   Stephen Covey is trying to say like

01:34:06   Synergy is the result of all the things that we have talked about before and so it's like, you know

01:34:11   All these buzzwords like we're bringing them all back people like and they're all gonna be in a row and we're gonna talk about all

01:34:16   of them together and and this to me this chapter is

01:34:19   Maximum crazy that like his definitions of synergy his stories

01:34:26   There's one story at the end that I particularly like but but yeah this this one is this one is rough. I think there is

01:34:32   Not a single

01:34:35   Sentence of value in the entire chapter

01:34:37   So the idea of habit six is to combine the strengths of people through positive teamwork

01:34:43   So as to achieve goals that no one could have done alone. All right

01:34:46   It's not compromised by the way compromise is not synergy. No, no compromise is not synergy

01:34:51   Compromise is one plus one equals one and a half, Myke.

01:34:55   Okay, let me try and explain this. I don't know how I'm going to be able to.

01:34:58   So apparently synergy is when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

01:35:03   In synergy, you could get one plus one equals three, or as he says, one plus one equals 10,

01:35:10   or 10,000, or 50,000. I was like, what are you doing? Like, have you lost your mind?

01:35:16   Why are you saying these numbers? But compromising is not synergy. It is a lower form of win-win.

01:35:22   If you compromise, it's like one plus one equals 1.5, which to be honest still sounds pretty good

01:35:27   because it's, you know, it's like whatever. But one plus one equals 1.5, one. But synergizing is

01:35:33   one plus one equals three. Now, dear listener, if you do not understand this, that's fine because

01:35:38   I don't either. I don't know what the difference is and I've listened to the whole book.

01:35:43   Just to be clear, quote, "Synergy is the essence of principle-centered leadership.

01:35:48   It is the essence of principle-centered parenting.

01:35:50   It catalyzes, unifies, and unleashes the greatest powers within people.

01:35:54   All the habits we have covered us prepare us to create the miracle of synergy."

01:36:00   Which is just like algebra, new algebra rules.

01:36:03   And yeah, the chapter is amazing.

01:36:07   really obsessed with the idea of constantly referring to 1+1 equaling some other number.

01:36:14   This is his constant go-to with what synergy means in this chapter to one of my favorite

01:36:21   little stories here, which is it's almost like the checkmate meme on the internet,

01:36:27   like it's happening in real conversation where I don't know if you remember, but he's talking

01:36:31   to a guy who's like doubting the concept of synergy. So again, as with all of these stories,

01:36:38   it somehow quickly turns to marriage and family. Everything is marriage and family. But so someone

01:36:44   is doubting that this magic of synergy exists to Stephen Covey. Oh god, I just remembered it. Yes,

01:36:50   oh my god, this is so good. Yeah, right, and so he turns to the guy and so the book says like,

01:37:01   I looked at the two of them, so it's the guy and his wife.

01:37:03   Yeah, because this guy is having problems in their relationship, and for some reason,

01:37:09   so he meets this guy, obviously at the end of a conference,

01:37:11   and he invites Covey to go to lunch with him and his wife

01:37:15   so he can listen to the way that they communicate.

01:37:18   Yeah, yeah.

01:37:19   Right?

01:37:19   And this is also a thing that I don't have a whole lot of tolerance for,

01:37:23   it was like a lot of weird 1980s science about the concept of left versus right brain people.

01:37:28   I didn't wonder how you'd feel about that.

01:37:29   Yeah, he's like he's a really left-brain person and she's a really right-brain person and like this is a weird idea that still still infects

01:37:35   Educational pedagogy today and like all of the stuff that this is based on is non replicable and is nonsense

01:37:40   So it's like okay, whatever so but so Stephen Covey like professional psychologist PhD is like, oh these these are he's a library

01:37:47   like oh

01:37:47   these are these are two half-brained people living together like they're having a hard time talking and he says like

01:37:52   You guys need to be more synergistic and they're saying I don't understand what you mean by by synergy

01:37:57   And so, again, resolution to fix this guy's marriage. Here's how it goes. Stephen Covey says

01:38:03   "Do you have any children?" I asked. "Yes, two."

01:38:07   "Really?" I asked incredulously, which feels a bit presumptuous there.

01:38:12   I know!

01:38:14   And then so Stephen Covey says

01:38:16   "How did you do it?" and they said "What do you mean, how did we do it?" "You were synergistic,"

01:38:23   I said, "1+1 usually equals 2, but you made 1+1=4. Now that's synergy.

01:38:30   The whole is greater than the sum of the parts." And it's like...

01:38:33   You're just counting things? Like it's so weird.

01:38:38   Yeah, this is not... like these people, they can't communicate. They struggle to communicate.

01:38:42   They seem to kind of not really like each other very much anymore.

01:38:45   But for some reason you fixed it by saying they had kids 10 years ago? Like I don't understand

01:38:50   the solution.

01:38:53   Yeah, so this is just maximum crazy in this chapter.

01:38:57   Like, it doesn't make any sense.

01:38:58   It's like, in his mind, people can only have children if they're in a healthy, functional relationship.

01:39:04   Yeah, that is a good way to put it.

01:39:06   Like, he's like, "But your children are here!"

01:39:08   Like, "I don't understand, why do you have a problem?

01:39:11   Don't you understand that if you have children, that shows that you're great together?"

01:39:15   It's like, I don't know, man. Even from your telling of this story,

01:39:17   it sounds like maybe they should get divorced, like, for the benefit of the children?

01:39:20   Yeah.

01:39:21   - Oh, it's so bad. - But I don't know

01:39:24   if he can do minuses, like can he do one minus one

01:39:27   equals negative four?

01:39:28   Like is that what would happen to the family?

01:39:30   - It would still be a plus, like somehow in his mind,

01:39:33   one minus one would be two million or something.

01:39:36   - Yeah, it's-- - Covey hates math,

01:39:38   like he hates TV.

01:39:39   At some point goes into this rant,

01:39:42   and I don't know where exactly it is.

01:39:45   He is talking about how TV is mostly bad for us

01:39:49   and there are some educational shows that are good

01:39:51   and we watch 40 hours a week of TV somehow,

01:39:56   and that in his household, they watch seven hours a week,

01:40:00   and everybody is happy with that.

01:40:02   Like, I'm not really sure why he gets into this,

01:40:06   but like, he seems to feel that like,

01:40:08   TV is a plague on society.

01:40:10   It's very strange.

01:40:12   - Yeah, yeah, there are a bunch of just

01:40:15   digs out of nowhere at TV.

01:40:17   - Oh, I actually think it is in Habit 7,

01:40:19   which is called Sharpen the Source.

01:40:21   So habit seven is about the continued improvement

01:40:25   of the other habits.

01:40:26   So it is taking everything that you have,

01:40:28   making and continuing over your life

01:40:31   to build and renew resources, energy,

01:40:33   and improve your health to create a sustainable,

01:40:35   long-term, effective lifestyle.

01:40:37   And you have to be able to sharpen the saw

01:40:39   and make your life good so you can live

01:40:42   the rest of the habits and it brings it all together.

01:40:44   And this is broken down into three major parts,

01:40:46   which is physical renewal, which is exercise.

01:40:49   something kind of referred to as good service,

01:40:51   which can be considered as prayer or meditation

01:40:54   or helping in your community,

01:40:56   and mental renewal, which is reading.

01:40:58   This is where he talks about the problem of TV

01:41:00   because he believes that people

01:41:02   should be reading all the time.

01:41:03   - Right, yeah, yeah.

01:41:04   It's a big push for reading on there.

01:41:06   Yeah. (laughs)

01:41:08   - I had nothing about this one.

01:41:09   This one, it was just,

01:41:10   'cause by this point, the technical debt that he has created

01:41:14   with the phrases and the buzzwords is almost monumental.

01:41:19   Like, there was a point in this book where it's like,

01:41:21   you just said 50 words and I think you created 15 of them.

01:41:25   Like, I don't understand what you're talking about anymore

01:41:29   because interdependence and interdependence,

01:41:33   you use both of them and I sometimes don't know

01:41:36   which one you're talking about.

01:41:37   It's too bogged down at this point

01:41:41   and he's trying to sum up too many things

01:41:44   that he's created.

01:41:45   - Yeah, it doesn't work anymore.

01:41:48   It's like TLDR, go to the gym and take care of your mind.

01:41:53   Yeah, yeah, that's the end of it

01:41:56   with no real practical advice on anything.

01:42:00   And I think there's actually a very interesting question

01:42:03   around this idea, which it doesn't touch at all,

01:42:06   but it's like you could have a much more

01:42:08   interesting conversation around this

01:42:09   because I feel like this is a thing in the modern world,

01:42:12   which is the concept of burnout,

01:42:14   Like people never taking time to have breaks or to regenerate intellectual capital or build

01:42:22   themselves back up.

01:42:26   There could be something interesting here about constantly working is depleting a resource

01:42:31   and you have to be aware of rebuilding that resource in time's off.

01:42:35   But it's like there's no discussion of that.

01:42:38   It's just continually additive.

01:42:41   you're adding all of these habits and all of these activities into your life and then

01:42:45   like, and now on top of it, like we're going to add all of this community service, like,

01:42:49   and you're also going to be reading and you're going to be going to the gym. And it just,

01:42:52   at this point, it almost feels like overwhelming the sheer number of things that a person would

01:42:57   have to do to maintain all of this. So yeah, it's, there could be a good idea here, but

01:43:03   this, this chapter is like, it is at the end and you just, you feel like, I can't, I can't

01:43:08   go on. Please, please just please make it end. Please make it end.

01:43:12   And that is it. That's the seven habits. I maintain, I want to maintain that I did find

01:43:18   use in this book and I get excited to talk about the bad things because it's funny, right,

01:43:22   to talk about the terrible things with you. But I do think there are some interesting

01:43:26   things in this book that I am going to take with me. You know, the idea of thinking about

01:43:31   being proactive and understanding the language that I use and how it affects things. Thinking

01:43:36   about how I want to be remembered, thinking about trying to maybe create a personal mission

01:43:41   statement and what that might look like as a way to sum up how I want my life to go before

01:43:45   me, thinking about things that are important and urgent and how I delegate and the emotional

01:43:50   bank account.

01:43:51   Like these are things that I find genuinely thought-provoking in a way that a lot of these

01:43:56   business books don't have the ability to make me think about so many things that this one

01:44:01   has done.

01:44:02   So having read this book, I can see why it had been so popular because there are things

01:44:11   in here that are interesting 30 years later to me.

01:44:16   This book is nearly 30 years old and I think that there is some genuinely interesting stuff

01:44:22   in this book.

01:44:24   But there is also, as with all of these books, a lot of nonsense.

01:44:29   Just real nonsense.

01:44:32   And unfortunately these two ideas are not really, these two things are not really mixed

01:44:37   together.

01:44:38   It's like the first half is good and the second half is crazy.

01:44:42   Which is a shame.

01:44:43   They didn't mix it up.

01:44:44   So it kind of lost me.

01:44:45   Yeah, yeah.

01:44:46   I have to hard not recommend this book to anybody.

01:44:51   I just think for anybody who is trying to improve their life, it's just, it's too much

01:44:57   to slog through.

01:44:59   It's too incoherent and while this is the foundation of very many books in this genre,

01:45:08   I think you're probably better off picking up something that is written that is more

01:45:12   modern which may be ripping off the ideas of this book but doing it in a more coherent

01:45:18   and constructive manner.

01:45:21   I cannot recommend this one because the crazy is just too much and the book is so long.

01:45:27   such a big ask to have somebody go through with it.

01:45:31   I just, I can never imagine a situation in which I would recommend to anybody to read this book.

01:45:35   Like, again, I haven't read anything further.

01:45:38   There are more books in this idea, like created by the Covey company, that could be better, right?

01:45:45   Like they could be more updated.

01:45:46   They could be more abbreviated, which might be better.

01:45:49   But yeah, I agree that like, I say there are interesting things here.

01:45:54   I recommend trying to find something that builds upon some of the habits, you know,

01:45:58   maybe finding out a bit about them.

01:46:00   Honestly, you've probably got a lot of what you need from us talking about it for you

01:46:05   to decide if you think any of these things are interesting to you and then maybe try

01:46:08   and find things that are offshoots of it, maybe just focusing on some of the specific

01:46:12   habits because it is really, really long and there is a lot of it that really doesn't

01:46:18   to be there and that with all of these books, it is what makes it hard that.

01:46:23   They are filling pages,

01:46:26   a lot of it is just genuinely pages need to be filled and they're filling them.

01:46:30   And you can feel that there are times when you can just really feel like

01:46:34   he's hitting a word count for this chapter, because there's just stuff

01:46:38   like, I don't know why you're talking about this anymore.

01:46:40   So there is a lot of that.

01:46:42   I don't think he's hitting a word count.

01:46:43   This to me, again, it just it just reads as like a Markov chain

01:46:47   generated that people just didn't didn't shut off soon enough right and it's like

01:46:50   oh we got a thousand pages right of this thing and ship it right like whatever

01:46:56   it because it doesn't matter because it's like it's it's fractally self

01:46:59   similar at a large scale and a small scale like it's it's all the same

01:47:02   throughout the whole thing it doesn't matter just ship a thousand pages of it

01:47:05   so yeah there are books where I definitely feel like oh I can see how

01:47:09   you turned your interesting article into a paperback book that you're now going

01:47:12   to sell and there's like then you can feel like okay you're obviously just

01:47:15   padding here. But this I think we're getting pure Covey here. I think there was no point

01:47:22   where he was like, "Mmm, I need to hit that word count." I feel like he had this book

01:47:25   flow through him and it came out into the world. Myke, do you want to close out our

01:47:31   discussion on the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People with the music that was played in the

01:47:38   Seven Habits of Highly Effective People?

01:47:40   I think so because we had to listen to it a lot, so I think our listeners should have

01:47:46   to get it just at least once just so they can understand the sacrifice that we made

01:47:51   for them.

01:47:52   So yes, here is the music which punctuated almost every 10 minutes it felt like of the

01:47:58   The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.

01:48:05   So where are you?

01:48:09   Where are you?

01:48:13   Where are you?

01:48:15   Where are you?

01:48:17   [Music]

01:48:21   [BLANK_AUDIO]