Cortex

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hi Myke. Hi. Are you ready to be proactive and sharpen the saw to synergize our win-win solution?

00:00:07 ◼   ► Today's the day. Today's the day. Seven habits of highly effective people

00:00:11 ◼   ► There was there was a couple of things that I was interested in talking about today

00:00:16 ◼   ► One was your surprisingly compelling 24-hour death stream. Oh, did you like that? Yeah, I did like that very much

00:00:23 ◼   ► So you had a new video in the CGP Grey doom and gloom series that came out

00:00:28 ◼   ► Is that what it is?

00:00:29 ◼   ► That's what I think of it in my head.

00:00:31 ◼   ► I feel like it was very optimistic but okay.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Was it though?

00:00:34 ◼   ► Because even the idea of living forever, I'm not sure if it was supposed to be in a way

00:00:41 ◼   ► that I was completely comfortable with.

00:00:43 ◼   ► But you, going alongside this video was a 24 hour live stream of an accurate representation

00:00:51 ◼   ► of how many people die on Earth in a day.

00:00:54 ◼   ► And it was fascinating.

00:00:55 ◼   ► It was like on in my house for like 45 minutes just in the background.

00:00:59 ◼   ► Like I started watching it and then I just kind of walked away from the TV

00:01:03 ◼   ► and it was just playing and like I look back it's like 5000. I was like oh no I had to turn it off.

00:01:09 ◼   ► It was it was too much to come back and see the numbers just getting bigger and bigger.

00:01:15 ◼   ► The little pile of skulls getting bigger and bigger.

00:01:17 ◼   ► Yeah it was good though it's a great idea.

00:01:19 ◼   ► It's one of those things that actually ended up coming out of a technical limitation.

00:01:24 ◼   ► So I had this idea originally of like, okay, I like this idea of this 24 hours of death as a visual representation of what's occurring.

00:01:32 ◼   ► Like, how do you convey the magnitude of this thing?

00:01:35 ◼   ► Because if you just say a big number, like it means nothing to people,

00:01:39 ◼   ► whereas I feel like, oh, if I put together a little video like this, it has more of a chance of having an impact.

00:01:44 ◼   ► You know, in exactly that way that you say.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Like, you start watching it and then you come back later and it's like, oh my.

00:01:50 ◼   ► Right, while I was washing the dishes, 10,000 people died.

00:01:53 ◼   ► And so it has an impact.

00:01:55 ◼   ► It drove it home, right?

00:01:57 ◼   ► It was like I could just watch this mesmerizing animation

00:02:00 ◼   ► where someone was getting their head cut off every second.

00:02:03 ◼   ► They were bursting into flames,

00:02:06 ◼   ► I think is what was occurring there.

00:02:07 ◼   ► Oh, my apologies.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Let's get the cause of death correct, I guess.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:13 ◼   ► But so yeah, I had this idea like,

00:02:16 ◼   ► okay, I wanted to do this.

00:02:18 ◼   ► And we're putting together this 24-hour long file

00:02:23 ◼   ► and go to upload it to YouTube and I get a great YouTube error message, which is, "Surprise!

00:02:30 ◼   ► Videos are not allowed to be longer than 12 hours."

00:02:34 ◼   ► And it's like, "Huh, that's interesting." Because I know for a fact that there are videos

00:02:39 ◼   ► on YouTube which are hundreds of hours long. There are definitely videos that are super

00:02:44 ◼   ► long, but it turns out that at some point in the past, YouTube made a decision that

00:02:49 ◼   ► they had enough of this tomfoolery with long videos and they decided to reduce the absolute

00:02:56 ◼   ► limit down to 12 hours.

00:02:58 ◼   ► Which is also longer than any video on YouTube should be. 12 hours is too long. Like why?

00:03:03 ◼   ► I mean I know you've found a reason for it, right?

00:03:05 ◼   ► I was gonna say, I have a very good reason why I would like a video that's longer than

00:03:09 ◼   ► 12 hours, thank you.

00:03:10 ◼   ► Right, but it shouldn't be. Because no one's watching that. Well actually I'm interested

00:03:14 ◼   ► to know what your retention graphs are like on those videos.

00:03:17 ◼   ► Well, we can get into that later.

00:03:19 ◼   ► But so anyway, I was super annoyed about this.

00:03:21 ◼   ► Because I was like, "Ah, god damn it. I don't want to break a thing up into two parts."

00:03:25 ◼   ► I know that I'm going to have to break it up into two parts,

00:03:28 ◼   ► but then I feel like that makes it not as good when you're uploading it for the first time.

00:03:33 ◼   ► And so I was spinning this around in my head,

00:03:37 ◼   ► and then talking with some people,

00:03:40 ◼   ► a few people mentioned the suggestion of actually like,

00:03:43 ◼   ► "Hey, can you get around this by live streaming the thing?"

00:03:46 ◼   ► And I was like, wait a minute, yes, there is no limit on how long a live stream can be.

00:03:51 ◼   ► So that's what I ended up doing was, okay, I can get around this technical limit by making it live.

00:03:56 ◼   ► And then as soon as I realised that, I thought, oh, it actually works better if it's live.

00:04:01 ◼   ► It's way better.

00:04:02 ◼   ► Because people can't skip ahead, right? Like people can't just jump.

00:04:05 ◼   ► And it's buzzy.

00:04:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:07 ◼   ► Right? There is this thing, this is what I found so compelling about it.

00:04:10 ◼   ► There was a thing on the internet that was showing me how many people were dying.

00:04:15 ◼   ► dying. Like it's morbid, but like a car crash television. Right. Like you kind of, you know

00:04:21 ◼   ► it's there. You can't help but look. Right. And I kept checking in every now and then

00:04:26 ◼   ► just to see how big the pile of skulls was. Like it was, you know, and like, and I kind

00:04:30 ◼   ► of had it in my mind to make sure to look before it ended. Right. Like it, like kind

00:04:34 ◼   ► of, I knew it started around like 11am my time or something. So kind of it was like

00:04:38 ◼   ► 1030 or whatever and I just checked in and it was like, oh man. But like it kind of had

00:04:42 ◼   ► that effect of it of like there is this thing that's happening which is showing this how

00:04:46 ◼   ► can I not at least look at it. So I think that it worked really well it was a great

00:04:51 ◼   ► idea.

00:04:52 ◼   ► Oh yeah I'm pretty pleased with the way that came out in the end I think that ended up

00:04:56 ◼   ► being like much more interesting than the video itself in a way was just doing this

00:04:59 ◼   ► this live stream so I'm pretty happy with the way it came out.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Yeah I liked the video but I was more interested in the live stream part like that was more

00:05:08 ◼   ► exciting to me.

00:05:10 ◼   ► Yeah, the livestream part is definitely the more interesting part.

00:05:12 ◼   ► And yeah, so it was...

00:05:14 ◼   ► I'm still annoyed that I wasn't able to upload the whole thing as one continuous file,

00:05:18 ◼   ► so I did have to end up uploading the final version as two pieces.

00:05:22 ◼   ► I thought you could set a livestream as a video.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Like, you can just have it available.

00:05:27 ◼   ► You can, but it will only save the last four hours.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Oh, that's silly.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Yeah, so...

00:05:32 ◼   ► Which is also interesting when I realise, like, I know people do 24-hour long charity fundraisers,

00:05:37 ◼   ► And it's like, oh okay, so there's just no record of that.

00:05:39 ◼   ► There's only a record of the last four hours of that.

00:05:43 ◼   ► Because yes, that was originally my thought was I was like,

00:05:45 ◼   ► ha ha ha, fooled you, YouTube.

00:05:47 ◼   ► Like, I'll just save the live stream.

00:05:49 ◼   ► And then I was like, no, it's not gonna work.

00:05:51 ◼   ► It only saves the last four hours.

00:05:52 ◼   ► But yeah, so anyway, this is just an interesting case

00:05:54 ◼   ► of an annoying technical limitation

00:05:58 ◼   ► that I still genuinely wish wasn't there,

00:06:01 ◼   ► but that nonetheless ended up turning into a thing

00:06:04 ◼   ► that is more interesting than it would have otherwise been.

00:06:06 ◼   ► So I feel like that it worked out in the end.

00:06:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, because if you publish the video,

00:06:10 ◼   ► I would just skip to the end.

00:06:12 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, everybody would have, yeah.

00:06:14 ◼   ► But speaking of the audience retention graphs,

00:06:16 ◼   ► there's a very funny thing

00:06:18 ◼   ► in those audience retention graphs

00:06:20 ◼   ► because there are little Easter eggs

00:06:22 ◼   ► throughout the 12 hours.

00:06:24 ◼   ► I think there's something like 20 little Easter eggs

00:06:26 ◼   ► that occur and when I loaded up

00:06:29 ◼   ► the audience retention graphs,

00:06:31 ◼   ► you can see the spikes right around the areas

00:06:34 ◼   ► where all the Easter eggs are.

00:06:36 ◼   ► How are people finding them?

00:06:37 ◼   ► Well, I think what's happening is someone sees it

00:06:41 ◼   ► and then they jump back a couple seconds to say,

00:06:44 ◼   ► "Hey, did I just see that thing that I thought I saw?"

00:06:47 ◼   ► Right, which then double counts

00:06:48 ◼   ► the audience retention in that spot.

00:06:49 ◼   ► And then people leave comments--

00:06:51 ◼   ► I just saw the comment.

00:06:52 ◼   ► People are jumping to those locations.

00:06:55 ◼   ► But it is hilarious.

00:06:56 ◼   ► On the audience retention graph,

00:06:58 ◼   ► you can see spikes for exactly where every single one

00:07:02 ◼   ► of the little Easter eggs are.

00:07:03 ◼   ► So it's pretty funny. That's wonderful.

00:07:04 ◼   ► like why the one at 557 have a hat on?

00:07:08 ◼   ► And why at 751 did they have a briefcase?

00:07:10 ◼   ► I like that this person really needed to,

00:07:12 ◼   ► like they were upset, right?

00:07:13 ◼   ► Like why, why?

00:07:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:07:17 ◼   ► - The why questions are great.

00:07:18 ◼   ► And it is funny 'cause when the live stream first went up,

00:07:20 ◼   ► I did enjoy all the comments

00:07:22 ◼   ► where people were saying things like, what does it mean?

00:07:25 ◼   ► What does it mean?

00:07:26 ◼   ► It's like, I'll leave that for you to speculate, commenters.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Like that's what I'm gonna leave.

00:07:32 ◼   ► You can speculate away about what it means.

00:07:33 ◼   ► That's on you to work out.

00:07:35 ◼   ► It's very profound, but you've got to figure it out yourself.

00:07:37 ◼   ► I'm looking at these now. I've got sucked into the comments.

00:07:41 ◼   ► I want to see the Easter eggs.

00:07:43 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:07:44 ◼   ► Myke, we've got a podcast to record.

00:07:46 ◼   ► You can't do Easter egg hunting.

00:07:47 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

00:07:47 ◼   ► Unless we record for 24 hours, which I don't think is a good idea.

00:07:51 ◼   ► But then we won't be able to post it on YouTube.

00:07:53 ◼   ► Unless we livestream a 24 hour long cortex, which is not going to happen.

00:07:56 ◼   ► [Ding]

00:07:57 ◼   ► Myke, do you know that you have become an animated character on the internet?

00:08:01 ◼   ► Finally, right?

00:08:02 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:08:03 ◼   ► Finally? Yeah, I have waited for a cartoon for years.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Finally there is a cartoon of me. Since I was a kid I've wanted to mic the cartoon.

00:08:12 ◼   ► And we have it now. There's a fantastic, I found this in the Cortex subreddit. The person

00:08:16 ◼   ► who created this video posted it. HM Butet is their YouTube channel, I'll put a link

00:08:21 ◼   ► in the show notes, and they are putting together some fantastic Cortex animated videos which

00:08:26 ◼   ► I am enjoying immensely. And I wanted people to see them because I think it's really great.

00:08:32 ◼   ► one of the previous episodes, there's one of some classic moments from old episodes,

00:08:36 ◼   ► and I love seeing stuff like this, and they really make me laugh and I enjoy them immensely.

00:08:42 ◼   ► And you really like being a cartoon character?

00:08:44 ◼   ► I love being a cartoon character. This person has an almost spooky ability to capture movements

00:08:50 ◼   ► that I think I would make. The way they animate my movements when talking to you is a lot

00:08:57 ◼   ► of how I imagine they actually are, so I think it's brilliant.

00:09:01 ◼   ► So one of these that I think is probably the best version is from--

00:09:04 ◼   ► I think it was our very first episode where we're talking about the screens

00:09:08 ◼   ► and home screen icons.

00:09:09 ◼   ► And the way they animate you when you're asking about what

00:09:15 ◼   ► I think about your home screen, I think it's just perfect.

00:09:19 ◼   ► People should go take a look at it.

00:09:22 ◼   ► Whether or not the way it is animated is the way it happens,

00:09:25 ◼   ► it adds something to the audio which makes

00:09:27 ◼   ► it sound like that's the way that it happens.

00:09:30 ◼   ► So it's really well done.

00:09:31 ◼   ► I'm always incredibly impressed by the way that people make these types of videos.

00:09:36 ◼   ► I watch some for some of my favorite shows.

00:09:39 ◼   ► There are some fantastic animated videos for my brother, my brother and me.

00:09:44 ◼   ► What I love about these types of videos is the way that people hear a thing, they hear

00:09:49 ◼   ► a thing, but the way they interpret it adds so much more to it.

00:09:55 ◼   ► It's such an interesting skill that people have to be able to hear a sentence and pick

00:10:00 ◼   ► out specific words and make a joke about those words in a way that was never originally intended.

00:10:07 ◼   ► It's so interesting to see that.

00:10:09 ◼   ► And also the kinetic nature of the videos is very interesting to me, the way that people

00:10:15 ◼   ► make the movements and they adjust the audio to fit.

00:10:18 ◼   ► I find it a very interesting skill.

00:10:21 ◼   ► And I'm really pleased to see something for our show too, because I love watching them

00:10:26 ◼   ► for the shows that I enjoy.

00:10:28 ◼   ► So it means a lot to me that people make this sort of stuff, so I want to thank that person

00:10:32 ◼   ► and encourage that people watch them because they're really, really fun.

00:10:36 ◼   ► Yeah, no, it's great stuff.

00:10:39 ◼   ► It's a huge amount of work.

00:10:40 ◼   ► I can't even imagine.

00:10:41 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I can't imagine how much work it is.

00:10:45 ◼   ► And it is always a funny experience, especially to see like a joke added to a thing that you

00:10:50 ◼   ► yourself have said. Right, where it's like, oh I'm watching a thing that's an animation

00:10:53 ◼   ► of something that I have said, and then here is this extra layer that is put on top of

00:10:57 ◼   ► it which was not intended to be there. So it's good stuff. It's good stuff.

00:11:02 ◼   ► So Gray I've mentioned that I'm going to be travelling a bunch before the end of the year.

00:11:07 ◼   ► And one of the things that I'm doing is PodCon, which is the podcast version of VidCon, which

00:11:12 ◼   ► may be, maybe just sparking many of our listeners' minds what this is, but it's like a celebration

00:11:17 ◼   ► of the creation of podcasts and there's going to be a lot of live shows and panels and things

00:11:21 ◼   ► like that. I'm going to be there. I now have a "Here's where you'll find Myke Hurley"

00:11:27 ◼   ► schedule.

00:11:28 ◼   ► Oh, very exciting.

00:11:29 ◼   ► Which I can put in the show notes. Because I'm doing a couple of things. I'm doing some

00:11:31 ◼   ► panels and some round tables and stuff like that.

00:11:34 ◼   ► As you should be. You're a big man on podcast campus.

00:11:37 ◼   ► Pod campus, I think it would be called.

00:11:40 ◼   ► Pod campus?

00:11:41 ◼   ► Yeah, sure. I just wanted to mention one thing that if people are going to be there, I'm

00:11:45 ◼   ► I'm going to be doing a signing at PodCon.

00:11:48 ◼   ► - Oh yeah?

00:11:49 ◼   ► So you're going to be there at a booth?

00:11:51 ◼   ► - Yep, at a booth.

00:11:52 ◼   ► - People are going to bring up things for you to sign?

00:11:54 ◼   ► - Maybe, I don't know what that would be.

00:11:56 ◼   ► I guess, what do I sign?

00:11:57 ◼   ► - Myke Hurley merchandise?

00:11:59 ◼   ► - People's iPods?

00:12:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:12:01 ◼   ► - So, I'm going to be there.

00:12:04 ◼   ► - You sign their beards?

00:12:05 ◼   ► I don't know how that works.

00:12:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I can sign beard oil, I don't know.

00:12:09 ◼   ► But December 10th, it's going to be at PodCon.

00:12:11 ◼   ► I think you have to be an attendee to be there

00:12:13 ◼   ► and I am looking forward to it.

00:12:14 ◼   ► It does look like a really interesting event, like the whole schedule is up now.

00:12:18 ◼   ► But I'm going to be at a booth in the signing area and everything and I wanted to just let

00:12:24 ◼   ► people know about this.

00:12:25 ◼   ► I've never done anything like this before is what I'm getting at here.

00:12:29 ◼   ► And I don't really know...

00:12:30 ◼   ► Are you nervous Myke?

00:12:31 ◼   ► Kind of.

00:12:32 ◼   ► I don't really know what to expect.

00:12:35 ◼   ► So I want to make sure that if you're going to be at PodCon and you want to come and see

00:12:39 ◼   ► me please do and I'm gonna have I'm gonna make this poster print for people that come

00:12:45 ◼   ► so if you come there will be a poster that I will sign and give to you.

00:12:51 ◼   ► Are you bribing the people Myke? It sounds like you're bribing the people.

00:12:53 ◼   ► It's more of an incentive. Oh it's an incentive. It's an incentive. There will be a poster

00:12:58 ◼   ► that I'm currently working on with a very talented artist and I may be able to share

00:13:03 ◼   ► the artwork beforehand just because I think it's probably gonna be amazing because this

00:13:07 ◼   ► person's awesome. I don't think you should I think you should

00:13:08 ◼   ► keep the artwork secret for the people who are going to be showing up to see it.

00:13:12 ◼   ► I was thinking about like taking a picture of it in such a way that you

00:13:15 ◼   ► couldn't use it for anything like my hand is there right but just so you know

00:13:19 ◼   ► the amazingness that is gonna be bestowed upon you right that you will

00:13:22 ◼   ► get. Okay I'm gonna suggest a different tack. You should take a

00:13:26 ◼   ► picture that just shows them a corner of the poster. Yeah like a little piece.

00:13:32 ◼   ► That's what you should do. Yeah that's good I like that so you can understand how great it's

00:13:36 ◼   ► gonna be but you don't get it. I'm trying to help you bribe the people to come Myke

00:13:40 ◼   ► so this is this is my suggestion show a corner of the poster. I will do that but

00:13:45 ◼   ► I'm genuinely very excited for PodCon because this is a thing that I've wanted

00:13:48 ◼   ► to exist for a while and the schedule looks great and I'm excited to go as an

00:13:52 ◼   ► attendee and as somebody who's gonna be involved in a few things so but yeah if

00:13:57 ◼   ► you're gonna be there please come to my signing you'll get a poster and it will

00:14:01 ◼   ► make me very happy. I don't know. Signings man, like, have you ever done a signing? You

00:14:08 ◼   ► have, right? Something like that?

00:14:12 ◼   ► Uh, technically yes. There was one case where I ended up doing a thing that was kind of

00:14:19 ◼   ► a signing, but it was a very special set of circumstances. It was the random acts of intelligence

00:14:25 ◼   ► show down in Alabama. It was like, I think it was like a very elite group of people who

00:14:31 ◼   ► were there. So that is the one time I've done it. But it also, I have great sympathy for

00:14:41 ◼   ► you Myke because in that situation you didn't have the nerve of like, "Is anyone going to

00:14:46 ◼   ► go to the signing?" Because there were just five of us there and it's like, "These people

00:14:50 ◼   ► are here to see us so we know that if we go outside and do signings we're not going to

00:14:54 ◼   ► look like sad saddos who are just all on our own." But if you're at a big conference it's

00:14:59 ◼   ► it's a very different thing and you don't know how much of your audience is going to be at the...

00:15:05 ◼   ► The Cortex audience, it would be a long line if everybody was going to a Myke signing

00:15:11 ◼   ► but the question is how many are going to PodCon?

00:15:14 ◼   ► That's it, that's the point, right? I don't know!

00:15:17 ◼   ► I can understand the cold sweat in your hands, right?

00:15:20 ◼   ► Where it's like, Myke could fill a stadium full of people if we got all the Cortex people there

00:15:25 ◼   ► many go to PodCon right who knows like what it's going to look like so I

00:15:29 ◼   ► completely understand your your desire to bribe / encourage people to go so I

00:15:38 ◼   ► think that I think that's a good method tease the people with the excitement of

00:15:41 ◼   ► what they get at a mic signing and to any cortex listeners if you go into pod

00:15:46 ◼   ► con make sure to see Myke make sure to bring your beard oil this episode of

00:15:52 ◼   ► Cortex is brought to you by FreshBooks. Hey freelancers, you know how important it is

00:15:56 ◼   ► to make smart decisions for your business, right? Well, don't you also want to save

00:16:00 ◼   ► time too? Well, by simplifying tasks like invoicing, expenses tracking and getting

00:16:05 ◼   ► paid online, FreshBooks reduces that time that their customers need to get their

00:16:10 ◼   ► work done and also makes things easier for them every single day. Like for

00:16:14 ◼   ► example, when you email a client an invoice of FreshBooks, you'll be able to

00:16:19 ◼   ► see when they've received it and if they've seen it, then even if they've

00:16:22 ◼   ► printed it and every other time they then open it do anything with it. This

00:16:26 ◼   ► puts an end to the guessing games of whether somebody has looked at an

00:16:29 ◼   ► invoice. They also have a new projects feature as well which will allow you to

00:16:33 ◼   ► share files and messages of your clients, contractors and even employees so you

00:16:38 ◼   ► can see how quickly things happen when all of your conversations live in one

00:16:42 ◼   ► place and what better place than FreshBooks. FreshBooks have over 10

00:16:46 ◼   ► million customers but they've managed to stay a pretty small company landing

00:16:50 ◼   ► them the title of small giant on Forbes list of best small companies of this

00:16:54 ◼   ► year. If you're listening to this and not yet using FreshBooks now is the time to

00:16:58 ◼   ► try it. They're offering an unrestricted 30-day free trial for listeners of this

00:17:02 ◼   ► show no credit card required. All you have to do is go to freshbooks.com/cortex

00:17:07 ◼   ► and enter cortex in the how did you hear about us section so they know that you

00:17:11 ◼   ► came to them from this show. Just before I recorded this I was actually sending

00:17:15 ◼   ► some invoices with FreshBooks. I really love this system. If you send invoices to anybody,

00:17:21 ◼   ► I thoroughly recommend it to you and I really really really insist that you give it a go.

00:17:25 ◼   ► FreshBooks.com/Cortex. Our thanks to FreshBooks for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:17:31 ◼   ► Alright Gray, I think that we're effectively warmed up at this point to discuss the book.

00:17:37 ◼   ► The Cortex Book Club, the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Now, I have had this on

00:17:43 ◼   ► my list since the very beginning of our show.

00:17:46 ◼   ► Right.

00:17:47 ◼   ► This has been something that I have wanted to talk about.

00:17:49 ◼   ► I've never read this book before but I, like many people, am very aware of this as an idea

00:17:55 ◼   ► that there is a book called The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

00:17:59 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure I've had some of it mentioned to me during management training courses back

00:18:04 ◼   ► in my old life, right?

00:18:06 ◼   ► Like this is, I mean, you know, it's what's it like 20 million, 15 million copies sold

00:18:10 ◼   ► or something.

00:18:11 ◼   ► morning and yeah it's it's 25 million copies sold and it's something like one of the top 20

00:18:19 ◼   ► best-selling business books of all time it's it's a it's a mammoth giant in this field this is the

00:18:25 ◼   ► one when it comes to these types of books you know like like we've spoken about the emith revisited

00:18:30 ◼   ► right like we spoke about that like i think that all of these books are just trying to be the next

00:18:35 ◼   ► seven habits like this is like an entire empire there are many spin-off books there's like whole

00:18:41 ◼   ► business set up around it like it is it is a big thing.

00:18:44 ◼   ► Yeah there's like seven habits for the teenage chicken soup soul like there's

00:18:49 ◼   ► you know it's a whole many there's many spin-offs of this.

00:18:51 ◼   ► My favorite one the eighth habit I was like hang on a second how many are there is there an

00:18:57 ◼   ► infinite amount of habits now?

00:18:59 ◼   ► Well people keep buying books yes there are an infinite number of habits yeah.

00:19:02 ◼   ► Yeah there sure are. What I want to do is I want to go through each of the habits

00:19:06 ◼   ► and give a very brief outline of them.

00:19:09 ◼   ► And then we can talk about if and how they apply

00:19:12 ◼   ► to our working lives, either before or after.

00:19:17 ◼   ► But I wanted to kind of talk about the book

00:19:18 ◼   ► and the abstract a little bit more.

00:19:20 ◼   ► So you had read this before, right?

00:19:23 ◼   ► This isn't your first time,

00:19:24 ◼   ► this is my first time with the book,

00:19:25 ◼   ► but it isn't yours, right?

00:19:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, this is not my first time at this rodeo.

00:19:30 ◼   ► And it is why when we were mentioning

00:19:32 ◼   ► that this was coming up in the last episode,

00:19:35 ◼   ► I think people could hear that there was some hesitation in my voice to finally committing

00:19:40 ◼   ► to doing this thing that you have been bugging me for years to do.

00:19:44 ◼   ► Yeah, so I read this a long time ago, and I kept trying to remember, but I'm pretty

00:19:53 ◼   ► sure that I read this book along with a bunch of other books in the genre before I ended

00:20:00 ◼   ► up finding Getting Things Done, which was the book that really worked for me.

00:20:04 ◼   ► You were looking for something, right? And none of these books gave you that.

00:20:08 ◼   ► Yeah, like I remember reading a book about eating a frog. There's a whole bunch of books

00:20:12 ◼   ► that are like these well-known things and this was one of these books and yeah, I'm

00:20:17 ◼   ► 95% sure that I read it before I read Getting Things Done a long time ago, back when I was

00:20:25 ◼   ► a very different person. So yes, I have read this book and upon rereading it, much of it

00:20:32 ◼   ► it came rushing back and so much of it was surprising and new, let's say that. So yeah,

00:20:41 ◼   ► reread the book, finished it, not 30 minutes before we started recording today.

00:20:46 ◼   ► I finished it yesterday.

00:20:49 ◼   ► Yeah, just like homework in real life where if a thing had to get done, I was going to

00:20:55 ◼   ► do it in the class before the class when it was due. That is essentially what I did this

00:21:00 ◼   ► morning is like man I timed it right down to a 30 minute buffer of when I

00:21:04 ◼   ► could finish this book and I got it done just on time.

00:21:08 ◼   ► Let's just pull back the curtain a little bit more we're recording this episode like three days later than we were supposed to.

00:21:13 ◼   ► I wouldn't have got the book done in time if we hadn't moved it, so I was kind of pretty happy about that.

00:21:19 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah that is that is also the case I had some last-minute travel plans that

00:21:23 ◼   ► messed up our recording schedule but it was also a thing of like I'm never gonna finish this book in time.

00:21:29 ◼   ► Otherwise I wouldn't have been pulling in all night or something. There was just no

00:21:32 ◼   ► way. I had like seven hours to go. It's long. It's really long. It's really long. I want

00:21:39 ◼   ► to say though, right, this book was not as bad as I thought it was going to be. I will

00:21:47 ◼   ► say that. Like it is frustrating at times and I want to talk about some of those frustrations

00:21:51 ◼   ► in a bit more detail. But I was not infuriated listening to this book like I was the Emith

00:21:56 ◼   ► Revisited, which by the way, if you've never heard that episode of the show, it's one of

00:21:59 ◼   ► my favorites.

00:22:00 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, it's a really good one to start with if you're like recommending people come

00:22:06 ◼   ► to the show, like I think that's probably a great starting spot, even if people haven't

00:22:09 ◼   ► read the book.

00:22:10 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes to that episode. It was episode 21. January of last

00:22:15 ◼   ► year. I thought it was longer than that, but yeah, January of last year, episode 21 that

00:22:18 ◼   ► you've revisited. I recommend that one if you've not heard it, or I should say if you

00:22:22 ◼   ► recommended someone for the show but anyway I actually found this book interesting at

00:22:26 ◼   ► times and sometimes useful in a way that like E-Myth I took one thing from it there was

00:22:32 ◼   ► one thing and I think this book it has more to it than that I can actually whilst reading

00:22:37 ◼   ► it can be like okay I know why this got as popular as it did like I have a lot of problems

00:22:42 ◼   ► with it but on the whole there is good information in this book and it isn't infuriating.

00:22:53 ◼   ► I wasn't screaming at my phone like I was when I was listening to E-Myth.

00:22:58 ◼   ► Yeah you were really frustrated with E-Myth.

00:23:00 ◼   ► I hated that book.

00:23:03 ◼   ► It was everything I don't like about that type of thing that book had it.

00:23:06 ◼   ► But I would have to take breaks, right?

00:23:09 ◼   ► If I was going to sit down and listen to this for three hours I had to take a break like

00:23:12 ◼   ► every 45 minutes because there's just only so much of this I can take, right? Like, I feel like it's

00:23:17 ◼   ► just my brain is being filled up with mostly nonsense for a while, right? And I kind of have

00:23:22 ◼   ► to like chill for a bit, but I've found this one. I was like going like, I'm making more notes than

00:23:29 ◼   ► I thought I would make mostly for me. So this book, I can see why it is a big thing. I can see

00:23:38 ◼   ► why people really, really like what it has to say.

00:23:42 ◼   ► Hm.

00:23:43 ◼   ► Hm.

00:23:44 ◼   ► That's interesting to hear, because part of my memory of the book, and one of the reasons

00:23:48 ◼   ► why I didn't feel like I wanted to read it again, is because my review, when people have

00:23:54 ◼   ► asked me about it, has always been, "It's one good idea in a thousand pages."

00:24:00 ◼   ► This was my memory from having read the book the first time.

00:24:05 ◼   ► And so it was interesting to read it again and say, "Does this hold up or does this not

00:24:10 ◼   ► hold up?"

00:24:11 ◼   ► And upon rereading this book, I feel like this book defeated my soul.

00:24:17 ◼   ► I feel really beaten down from reading this book.

00:24:22 ◼   ► So I feel like we're having a little bit of opposite reactions with Emith and this one,

00:24:26 ◼   ► because in Emith I felt like I kept defending Emith.

00:24:30 ◼   ► I'm like, "Yeah, it's crazy, but there's some good ideas in here."

00:24:33 ◼   ► Whereas with this one, I think you could play the audiobook of this as a method of torture,

00:24:42 ◼   ► to just make people divulge information by just looping it in their cell over and over

00:24:46 ◼   ► again.

00:24:47 ◼   ► Interesting, okay.

00:24:48 ◼   ► I will say, there is a huge chunk of this book that I think is pointless.

00:24:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, as with all these books, it could be dramatically shortened.

00:24:57 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:24:58 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:24:59 ◼   ► But more than that, like...

00:25:01 ◼   ► So even though this book totally defeated me, I also have the understanding of like, I can see why this book was such a mammoth book.

00:25:10 ◼   ► But my takeaway is, this book is almost like a Rorschach test.

00:25:17 ◼   ► Like, people will... it's so vague in so many places that you can...

00:25:23 ◼   ► I think people can just kind of read into it their own situations.

00:25:27 ◼   ► But like the amount of actual actionable material struck me as like incredibly small.

00:25:34 ◼   ► And what I felt like I was reading was a like a productivity book Markov chain.

00:25:42 ◼   ► Like this is just like an automatic AI generated endless string sentence of words in a productivity

00:25:49 ◼   ► book that your brain is constantly struggling to pull meaning out of and to find connections to.

00:25:54 ◼   ► And it just never ends.

00:25:56 ◼   ► It just goes on forever.

00:25:59 ◼   ► And when I say that this book defeated me, the thing that was happening was like, I started

00:26:04 ◼   ► reading the book and I genuinely like read up to habit number two, which is sort of most

00:26:10 ◼   ► of what I had remembered from before.

00:26:13 ◼   ► And then I realized like, I'm reading this book, but the reading is in quotes where like,

00:26:17 ◼   ► I'm just pressing forward on the Kindle.

00:26:20 ◼   ► Like not even skimming, but it's just like flip, flip, flip, because my brain is like

00:26:25 ◼   ► trying to get through this thing like, "Hey, let's just turn some pages and then we'll

00:26:29 ◼   ► focus on the words in a little bit and it's like a pickup at another spot."

00:26:32 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh God, I can't stand this."

00:26:34 ◼   ► So, I always make fun of you for reading the audiobook, but I had to buy the audiobook

00:26:40 ◼   ► because I was aware that at a certain point like I physically cannot read this book.

00:26:47 ◼   ► There is no way I can force my eyes to look at the words and have the meaning go into

00:26:52 ◼   ► my head.

00:26:53 ◼   ► It was just completely impossible.

00:26:55 ◼   ► So I switched to the audiobook, which I never recommend people do for this kind of book.

00:27:01 ◼   ► And then I felt like I was being brainwashed for six more hours.

00:27:05 ◼   ► So I feel like I have come out of an experience somewhat traumatized.

00:27:12 ◼   ► And I'm going to give a "no recommend" to this book.

00:27:16 ◼   ► But I'm very happy to talk about some of the habits and the ideas that are contained inside

00:27:20 ◼   ► of it.

00:27:21 ◼   ► I cannot think of a book in this genre that I can now say that I like less than this book.

00:27:28 ◼   ► This book is the worst book.

00:27:30 ◼   ► Let's put a pin in that for one second because I have a theory.

00:27:32 ◼   ► But I wanted to say about the audiobook.

00:27:34 ◼   ► I know that the audiobooks are torture.

00:27:37 ◼   ► But the reason I do it is because I can integrate it into my life.

00:27:41 ◼   ► Right, yeah, yeah.

00:27:42 ◼   ► I don't have to, like, take the time to sit and read the book.

00:27:46 ◼   ► Because I don't do a lot of sitting and reading time in this way.

00:27:50 ◼   ► But like I can be traveling as I have been and listen.

00:27:55 ◼   ► I can be playing Stardew Valley and listen.

00:27:58 ◼   ► So that's why I do this, right? Like I do that because I can integrate the audiobook into my working life and personal life easier than I can the physical book or can do it.

00:28:10 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I completely understand that and that's what I was doing as well.

00:28:13 ◼   ► Like I've been traveling a whole bunch and so it's like, okay great, while I'm standing online at security, right,

00:28:17 ◼   ► I can hear about how we're going to synergize our plus one ideas and it's great.

00:28:20 ◼   ► But I also found that at a certain point,

00:28:23 ◼   ► just like I was no longer reading the book,

00:28:25 ◼   ► I was simply not listening to the audio book. And so what I ended up,

00:28:30 ◼   ► the final,

00:28:31 ◼   ► the final stage in my journey of I have to read this so I can talk about it at

00:28:34 ◼   ► least a little bit on a podcast was no joke.

00:28:37 ◼   ► Listening to the audio book while looking at the Kindle version was the only,

00:28:44 ◼   ► It was like the only way I could force the words to mean things in my head because I was aware like after a while

00:28:50 ◼   ► Even with the audiobook is like I can't I can't listen

00:28:52 ◼   ► So I had the weird experience towards the end of audio book cranked up to like two and a half X

00:28:57 ◼   ► Which is about my reading speed and then like quote reading through the book while the audio book is playing in my head

00:29:03 ◼   ► So that that's how I finished the book this morning. So here is my theory

00:29:07 ◼   ► I have a theory about this which I kind of decided on pretty early and it helped me get through this book

00:29:13 ◼   ► Okay. This book was published in 1989. Right.

00:29:18 ◼   ► My theory is part of the reason that at first I was finding it infuriating and why I believe

00:29:23 ◼   ► you find it infuriating is this book feels like you take every other productivity book

00:29:31 ◼   ► ever written, put it into a blender and Seven Habits pops out. And I think it's the reverse

00:29:36 ◼   ► of that. This was the book that started a lot of this stuff. So, so many of the things

00:29:43 ◼   ► that feel like tropes of terrible business books, and because you've heard them a million

00:29:47 ◼   ► times because of this one. So like as when I started thinking about that, I approached

00:29:52 ◼   ► this book differently. I was giving it more leeway because this book isn't trying to be

00:29:59 ◼   ► annoying. I'm annoyed by this book because every marketing book, business book, and management

00:30:05 ◼   ► material ever made since 1989 is trying to rip off The Seven Habits. And when I kind

00:30:13 ◼   ► of this is my theory, when I was able to accept that, I was able to give this book more leeway

00:30:18 ◼   ► and that's why I think I wasn't so annoyed about it.

00:30:21 ◼   ► Yeah, no, you're totally right about that. I think that that's not a theory that that

00:30:25 ◼   ► might as well just be like an accepted fact in the universe, right? That this like when

00:30:29 ◼   ► you this is this is the book that had to introduce the idea of like paradigm shift into the into

00:30:35 ◼   ► the language, right? This is the book that raises the idea of synergy into the language,

00:30:40 ◼   ► right? It's the first book that starts talking about all of that stuff. My comparison for

00:30:45 ◼   ► this is the example I always use, but I think of the animated version of Ghost in the Shell

00:30:51 ◼   ► as a movie, which is very hard for modern audiences to watch because it's set up every

00:30:56 ◼   ► single science fiction trope for the next 30 years. So when you watch the original it

00:31:01 ◼   ► feels like this thing is incredibly unoriginal because you've seen all of the spin-offs and

00:31:06 ◼   ► all of the versions for the next 30 years on it. Like, without a doubt, Seven Habits,

00:31:12 ◼   ► reading it now has that problem.

00:31:14 ◼   ► And you've read so many more of these types of books than I have. So you have read this

00:31:19 ◼   ► book 150 times.

00:31:21 ◼   ► But my problem with it isn't that. Like, it isn't just that it's like, yes, this is this

00:31:27 ◼   ► this endless blender of random sentences from other books.

00:31:30 ◼   ► Because I was also thinking that very much

00:31:32 ◼   ► while I'm reading it.

00:31:33 ◼   ► It's like, okay, this is the foundation of it,

00:31:35 ◼   ► but it still felt like even with that in mind,

00:31:38 ◼   ► like when he's talking about these various things,

00:31:40 ◼   ► there's just so little there,

00:31:44 ◼   ► or the like the ideas don't even make sense.

00:31:48 ◼   ► Like his whole chapter on,

00:31:49 ◼   ► I just pick up on synergy just as an example, right?

00:31:52 ◼   ► Because it's this like idea

00:31:53 ◼   ► that has infected the business world

00:31:54 ◼   ► where people are always synergizing

00:31:56 ◼   ► their global strategies, right?

00:31:57 ◼   ► But even that whole chapter is like,

00:31:59 ◼   ► even here his concept of synergy, it's not like,

00:32:02 ◼   ► oh, the original person had a great idea

00:32:05 ◼   ► and it has since been distilled down

00:32:08 ◼   ► to a meaningless jargon word.

00:32:09 ◼   ► It's like, no, it was born as a meaningless jargon word.

00:32:12 ◼   ► Like he's using it wildly and consistently

00:32:15 ◼   ► in a way that makes no sense

00:32:17 ◼   ► across a whole bunch of different analogies.

00:32:19 ◼   ► So that's why I don't feel like,

00:32:20 ◼   ► ah, this thing was the thing that started it

00:32:22 ◼   ► and it got mutated over time.

00:32:23 ◼   ► It's like it was born in this inconsistent, horrific way.

00:32:27 ◼   ► - Yeah. - So yeah.

00:32:28 ◼   ► - There are so many buzzwords and phrases in this book

00:32:33 ◼   ► that he creates that by the end of it,

00:32:35 ◼   ► you feel like you're in a bowl of soup.

00:32:37 ◼   ► Like, so this is from Habit 7.

00:32:41 ◼   ► This was a note that, this is the end, right?

00:32:43 ◼   ► So I've made this note.

00:32:45 ◼   ► I say, by the point in this book,

00:32:46 ◼   ► there are so many buzzwords that he uses

00:32:48 ◼   ► that it is almost impossible

00:32:50 ◼   ► to distinguish them from each other.

00:32:52 ◼   ► - Right, yeah.

00:32:52 ◼   ► - So I'll give a few of these.

00:32:53 ◼   ► and we may talk about them, emotional bank account,

00:32:56 ◼   ► PC balance, intra-dependence, interdependence,

00:32:58 ◼   ► personal renewal, daily private victory,

00:33:01 ◼   ► synergize win-win solutions.

00:33:03 ◼   ► By the end of the book, he is throwing these words out

00:33:06 ◼   ► like candy and to the point that you're like,

00:33:08 ◼   ► does this word actually exist?

00:33:10 ◼   ► I believe by the end of this book

00:33:12 ◼   ► that the word intra-dependence existed.

00:33:14 ◼   ► Because it's like, I've heard it so many times now

00:33:18 ◼   ► that it must be true.

00:33:19 ◼   ► And it is, intra-dependence is the idea

00:33:22 ◼   ► of working with others. So instead of being independent, you're interdependent. It's

00:33:27 ◼   ► either inter or intra. I also couldn't understand it because here's another thing that I have

00:33:31 ◼   ► a problem with basically all business books. I'm almost convinced. This is another of my

00:33:35 ◼   ► theories coming out of this book. I'm almost convinced that audiobook narrators or the

00:33:40 ◼   ► people narrating audiobooks, this one is narrated by Stephen R. Covey, the guy who wrote the

00:33:44 ◼   ► book, that they pronounce words weirdly just to make sure that you're paying attention.

00:33:49 ◼   ► Yes, yeah, there's a few of those in here where it's like, this is a normal word, dude,

00:33:55 ◼   ► right?

00:33:56 ◼   ► Like, there's no way he...

00:33:57 ◼   ► He says "truths" in a way I've never heard before.

00:33:59 ◼   ► He goes "trou-ves".

00:34:01 ◼   ► It's like the longest word with a "v" in it.

00:34:03 ◼   ► It's like, I don't understand what you're doing.

00:34:05 ◼   ► Like, some words, like, nobody says them like this.

00:34:08 ◼   ► I'm convinced that they do this just so you pay attention, because you're like, I don't

00:34:12 ◼   ► understand the word that he just used.

00:34:14 ◼   ► It's mind-blowing.

00:34:15 ◼   ► So, I'm now getting worked up now, so here are a couple more frustrations about this

00:34:19 ◼   ► book.

00:34:20 ◼   ► The first habit begins at two hours and twenty-two minutes in.

00:34:24 ◼   ► Oh, wow!

00:34:25 ◼   ► I didn't realize it was that long.

00:34:29 ◼   ► So I have the unabridged, which again, don't know why I do this, but my version includes

00:34:33 ◼   ► a forward, which is mind-blowingly just up in the stratosphere, where he's talking

00:34:42 ◼   ► about his son, and I just can't believe it's true. Like with many of these stories,

00:34:48 ◼   ► there are many stories in this book where I'm like, "Okay, Covey, that didn't happen."

00:34:53 ◼   ► Something like that may have happened, but that didn't happen. And the idea is that

00:34:59 ◼   ► his son was failing in everything. He was terrible at school, terrible at athletics,

00:35:04 ◼   ► just couldn't get anything right in his life. They started to apply the seven habits to

00:35:09 ◼   ► him before they became the Seven Habits, right? Like they just started to change their behavior.

00:35:13 ◼   ► And he ended up being the most popular kid in school, homecoming king twice, grade A

00:35:19 ◼   ► valedictorian, and the captain of the football team.

00:35:23 ◼   ► Right, and he won the Nobel Prize.

00:35:27 ◼   ► Now I did a little bit of investigation and his son was a successful American football

00:35:32 ◼   ► player. But I don't believe the rest of it. Like I can't. Maybe he was all of those

00:35:37 ◼   ► but beforehand was not failing, unpopular, and couldn't run.

00:35:41 ◼   ► Like, I just can't, in my mind, believe that this is true.

00:35:45 ◼   ► And the thing is, they may be true, if it is, whatever,

00:35:47 ◼   ► but when you read these books, you're like, "This can't be,"

00:35:49 ◼   ► because you know there are lies throughout this book.

00:35:52 ◼   ► He also found a magical hotel, by the way, which is like,

00:35:56 ◼   ► "Did they all do this?" - Oh, oh my God, yes.

00:35:57 ◼   ► I have that highlighted.

00:35:58 ◼   ► We can get to that later.

00:35:59 ◼   ► But yeah, this is one of the things that I didn't remember about the book at all,

00:36:04 ◼   ► and I was astounded on the reread is everything relates to his children and his family.

00:36:10 ◼   ► I was astounded by how much of this book is focused around marriage.

00:36:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:18 ◼   ► So many things. Like this is a business book, but like honestly the major focus of The Seven Habits

00:36:24 ◼   ► is applying them to your family life. And I was like, what is this book? Like this was,

00:36:29 ◼   ► It was so different to what I was expecting in that way.

00:36:33 ◼   ► Everything is to do with his family.

00:36:34 ◼   ► Even like delegating his son to mow the lawn, right?

00:36:37 ◼   ► Oh my god, the mowing the lawn story.

00:36:39 ◼   ► Yeah, so but this is exactly the kind of thing where it's just like,

00:36:42 ◼   ► I don't believe these stories that you're telling about your children.

00:36:45 ◼   ► Like, because he's always telling stories about some kind of

00:36:49 ◼   ► Leave it to Beaver perfect family where they're just,

00:36:51 ◼   ► they're having conversations and then people just realize,

00:36:54 ◼   ► oh, I understand everything now.

00:36:55 ◼   ► And like stuff just works out perfectly fine.

00:36:58 ◼   ► Even when it doesn't there's something like it's the stories are crazy

00:37:02 ◼   ► There's one that I highlighted as to me a perfect example of like, I'm sorry

00:37:06 ◼   ► This story didn't happen where I don't know if you remember this one, but he's talking about

00:37:11 ◼   ► Not wanting to go see Star Wars with his daughter. Oh and yeah

00:37:16 ◼   ► And and the daughter says Oh dad. I'm alright. I know you don't like Star Wars. You've slept through it before right?

00:37:23 ◼   ► You don't you don't want to see this movie

00:37:26 ◼   ► And then his daughter who was like, "How old is the daughter in this story?"

00:37:31 ◼   ► But she says, "But you know why you don't like Star Wars?

00:37:35 ◼   ► It's because you don't understand the philosophy and training of a Jedi Knight."

00:37:39 ◼   ► "What?" I said.

00:37:41 ◼   ► "You know the things you teach, Dad?

00:37:44 ◼   ► Those same things you teach are the training of a Jedi Knight."

00:37:49 ◼   ► And then I said, "Really? Let's go see Star Wars."

00:37:53 ◼   ► And we did.

00:37:54 ◼   ► She sat next to me and gave me the new paradigm.

00:37:57 ◼   ► I became her student, her learner.

00:38:00 ◼   ► It was totally fascinating, and I could begin to see out of the new paradigm

00:38:05 ◼   ► the whole way a Jedi Knight's basic philosophy and training is manifested in different circumstances.

00:38:13 ◼   ► It's like, this didn't happen.

00:38:15 ◼   ► There's no way that your daughter's like, "Let me tell you about the philosophy and training of a Jedi Knight."

00:38:20 ◼   ► Because also, like, this movie is taking place in the 80s.

00:38:22 ◼   ► He's like, this is, this did not happen.

00:38:25 ◼   ► There is no way that your daughter was like,

00:38:27 ◼   ► let me explain to you how what Jedi Knights do

00:38:29 ◼   ► is exactly what you do, Dad.

00:38:32 ◼   ► You're just like a Jedi.

00:38:33 ◼   ► - Hey, Cuffee, you're a Jedi.

00:38:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly. - No, Cuffee wanted

00:38:36 ◼   ► to be a Jedi is what this is all about.

00:38:38 ◼   ► - I read that story because that one is particularly crazy.

00:38:40 ◼   ► - Yep. - But just imagine

00:38:42 ◼   ► like every single page, there is some quick story

00:38:46 ◼   ► about his family and like learning things from his children

00:38:50 ◼   ► or teaching things to his children

00:38:52 ◼   ► in ways that when you're on the 100th one of them,

00:38:54 ◼   ► like this is not believable, like this is crazy.

00:38:58 ◼   ► - I think the worst one for me is,

00:38:59 ◼   ► this is towards the end of the book,

00:39:01 ◼   ► he's talking about how him and his family

00:39:03 ◼   ► took a year away to Hawaii.

00:39:05 ◼   ► - Oh God, yeah.

00:39:07 ◼   ► - And he talks about how the kids would go to school

00:39:10 ◼   ► and then he would pick them up on like,

00:39:12 ◼   ► it's called like a Honda Trail Master or something,

00:39:14 ◼   ► trail cycle, which is a motorbike,

00:39:17 ◼   ► where he said that all four of the family got on the bike

00:39:21 ◼   ► and would drive to the beach.

00:39:23 ◼   ► He's like, I would sit and my wife would sit behind me,

00:39:26 ◼   ► kid in between us and one of them on my knee.

00:39:28 ◼   ► I was like, how?

00:39:29 ◼   ► How?

00:39:30 ◼   ► He's like, are you circus performers?

00:39:31 ◼   ► Like, what are you doing?

00:39:33 ◼   ► - Well, that kind of description to me

00:39:35 ◼   ► reads like a thing where when you're a psychologist

00:39:37 ◼   ► and you start to unwind with someone false memories

00:39:40 ◼   ► that they have, because it's like,

00:39:41 ◼   ► oh yeah, we were on a motorcycle.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like, no, that can't possibly have been the case.

00:39:46 ◼   ► Right, like let's start comparing this

00:39:48 ◼   ► against real world things.

00:39:49 ◼   ► like there's no way that you were doing this in the way that you're describing.

00:39:52 ◼   ► And then he would talk about how they would sit on the beach and just talk for

00:39:57 ◼   ► hours, right? Like that every single day.

00:39:59 ◼   ► And then he's telling the story about how his wife would only buy

00:40:04 ◼   ► Frigidaire appliances, which is a company, right?

00:40:08 ◼   ► They make like white goods and stuff.

00:40:09 ◼   ► And this was apparently a sore spot in their marriage because she would insist

00:40:16 ◼   ► on these Frigidaire appliances. And for some reason,

00:40:18 ◼   ► caused huge problems with tons of emotional baggage because every time they needed to

00:40:24 ◼   ► buy an appliance they had to go to the next town and they both were just dreading this

00:40:27 ◼   ► conversation was coming and every time it came it was like the end of their marriage

00:40:31 ◼   ► and they had so much trouble with it and then she happened to remember that her father's

00:40:36 ◼   ► business was saved by Frigidaire. How would you not remember that? How would you, why

00:40:40 ◼   ► would you know you had this like undying love for this company and not remember it was because

00:40:46 ◼   ► your dad's business was saved by their financing of their appliances.

00:40:50 ◼   ► Yeah, and that again is an example of like, okay, let's say that that story is true. This

00:40:56 ◼   ► is also like almost a classic example of your wife is probably just manufacturing a memory

00:41:02 ◼   ► about a thing that might have happened when she was a kid. Like it's so weird. It's so

00:41:07 ◼   ► strange. So many of these stories.

00:41:09 ◼   ► You're making me dislike this book now. I don't like it anymore.

00:41:15 ◼   ► This is it, right? And so like, it suffers from this thing that all these books do. Why

00:41:22 ◼   ► give one example when you can list 20?

00:41:26 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. Why give one example when you can list 20? Now, again, I will slightly in

00:41:31 ◼   ► defence say that in my memory, the thing which we'll get to, which I think was the one idea,

00:41:36 ◼   ► is the one place that I think benefits from a bunch of examples. But most of the time,

00:41:41 ◼   ► It totally doesn't.

00:41:43 ◼   ► And the problem with a whole bunch of the examples is they are all these just-so examples.

00:41:54 ◼   ► It's like, let me tell you a thing and then here's an imaginary story about how it perfectly

00:42:00 ◼   ► solved this situation.

00:42:02 ◼   ► And it's not a real-life example of what to do.

00:42:07 ◼   ► Just to contrast with Getting Things Done, which again I will say I don't think is a

00:42:10 ◼   ► book which really holds up anymore. But one of the things I always find hilarious in that book is

00:42:14 ◼   ► David Allen talks about the problems and projects that you have and his problems and projects are

00:42:20 ◼   ► always like hilarious rich person problems. So he talks about like what's the first step to

00:42:25 ◼   ► building your next orchard, right? And it's like, well, you know, you need to do all of it. Like

00:42:30 ◼   ► that is literally an example in the book at one point, right? But what I will appreciate about

00:42:37 ◼   ► is, okay, he may be giving a bunch of examples,

00:42:39 ◼   ► but he works through the specifics of this thing,

00:42:42 ◼   ► of like, here's a thing, let's break down the way

00:42:45 ◼   ► that you're supposed to think about this.

00:42:46 ◼   ► Whereas this book feels like a whole bunch of parables

00:42:51 ◼   ► about an imaginary family that are vaguely related

00:42:57 ◼   ► to the ideas that he's pushing in the book,

00:42:59 ◼   ► and it's like, okay, this is my feeling throughout it,

00:43:02 ◼   ► is there's no action,

00:43:05 ◼   ► And if you read the book, what you can also see and what really started to bother me is

00:43:13 ◼   ► his philosophy, which there's a very weird and very brief afterward which re-emphasizes this idea.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Oh, I didn't listen to the afterward. I got to the end of the seventh habit. I was like, "I'm done. I'm out."

00:43:23 ◼   ► Yeah, but his philosophy in large part, he talks about like, he's constantly talking about

00:43:29 ◼   ► making decisions to stay constant with your principles, right?

00:43:32 ◼   ► Right, like this is like over and over this is the drumbeat.

00:43:36 ◼   ► It's like the secret to living a good life is to have good principles and stick to them.

00:43:41 ◼   ► Alright, and my frustration with that is like, yeah, that's the whole f*cking problem.

00:43:46 ◼   ► Right, like that's the hard thing to do is to make the right decisions,

00:43:51 ◼   ► but so many of these things are like, you need to set out some ideas and then just stick to them.

00:43:56 ◼   ► It's like, dude, just sticking to them is the hard part.

00:44:00 ◼   ► And what I absolutely love is in this ridiculous story where he talks about having his son mowing the lawn.

00:44:05 ◼   ► It is the... there's once in the entire book where he explicitly acknowledged like doing something is hard

00:44:12 ◼   ► because his kid promises to mow the lawn and then doesn't.

00:44:15 ◼   ► And then when he calls his kid out on it, his kid cries and says, "Oh, Dad, it's so hard."

00:44:21 ◼   ► And in his internal monologue, he says like, "Oh, what's so hard? Like you didn't do anything."

00:44:25 ◼   ► And then he has one line in the whole book where he says,

00:44:28 ◼   ► well the hard thing is sticking to the principles, right?

00:44:30 ◼   ► And then just blows right past it and it's like

00:44:32 ◼   ► you've got a thousand pages

00:44:34 ◼   ► upon which every page is just like the secret

00:44:36 ◼   ► to making good decisions is to make good decisions

00:44:38 ◼   ► and it's like there's nothing here

00:44:40 ◼   ► there's nothing here to talk about

00:44:42 ◼   ► and it's this weird thing about

00:44:44 ◼   ► choices and

00:44:46 ◼   ► there is a moment which

00:44:48 ◼   ► blows my mind

00:44:50 ◼   ► in the afterword at the very end of the

00:44:52 ◼   ► book which really sums it up where

00:44:54 ◼   ► he's talking about choices

00:44:56 ◼   ► And he literally just says something like, "If your parents abused you as a child, that does not mean you have to abuse your own children.

00:45:03 ◼   ► You can choose not to abuse your children." And it's like, "Oh, is that the problem?" Like, people are just making them--it's crazy.

00:45:11 ◼   ► Oh my god. Oh wow.

00:45:13 ◼   ► Oh, okay. It's like, thanks for solving these systemic societal problems by telling people

00:45:22 ◼   ► who do bad things not to choose to do the bad things. It's so weird.

00:45:29 ◼   ► Yeah, there are more examples of this. So in one of the many examples of relationship

00:45:34 ◼   ► advice in this book, there is somebody who came up to him at the end of a conference.

00:45:40 ◼   ► people come up to Covey at the end of his speaking engagements to tell him stories.

00:45:44 ◼   ► Oh my god, yeah. Was this the woman, the nurse, like who's working with the old man? Or was

00:45:48 ◼   ► this another one? There was just another one.

00:45:51 ◼   ► This one is guys like, "Me and my wife, we don't love each other anymore."

00:45:55 ◼   ► Oh I have that highlighted too, oh my god it's amazing.

00:45:59 ◼   ► Just love them. But it's like, but we don't get a lot, you just love, it just keeps saying

00:46:02 ◼   ► over and over again, just love them, just love them. And saying that, you know, love

00:46:06 ◼   ► is a thing that is constructed by books and it's not a real thing and all you have to do is be

00:46:10 ◼   ► attentive and it's like okay the advice like there's probably some interesting stuff in this

00:46:15 ◼   ► advice but the way that he gives it is just so weird like just love them like he's that is his

00:46:22 ◼   ► advice just love them he just keeps saying it over and over again until the scales fall from the

00:46:27 ◼   ► person's eyes and they can finally see as part of Covey's teaching. I think this is worth reading

00:46:32 ◼   ► word-for-word. This weird like how to love your wife thing.

00:46:35 ◼   ► It's like okay listen there's like strap in for a moment here. Yeah you got you

00:46:39 ◼   ► gone on a wild ride. Okay so here's relationship advice from Steven Covey.

00:46:44 ◼   ► At one seminar where I was speaking on the concept of productivity a man came

00:46:48 ◼   ► up and said Steven I like what you're saying but every situation is so

00:46:53 ◼   ► different. Look at my marriage. I'm really worried. My wife and I just don't have

00:46:57 ◼   ► the same feelings for each other that we used to. I guess I just don't love her

00:47:01 ◼   ► anymore and she doesn't love me. What can I do?" "Love her," I replied. "I told you the feeling

00:47:07 ◼   ► just isn't there anymore." "Love her." "You don't understand the feeling of love just isn't there."

00:47:13 ◼   ► "Then love her. If the feeling isn't there, that's a good reason to love her." "But how do you love

00:47:21 ◼   ► when you don't love?" "My friend, love is a verb. Love the feeling is the fruit of love, the verb.

00:47:29 ◼   ► So love her.

00:47:30 ◼   ► End of chapter, right?

00:47:32 ◼   ► Like, what?

00:47:33 ◼   ► What the hell is this?

00:47:37 ◼   ► Right?

00:47:37 ◼   ► Like, but

00:47:38 ◼   ► like, but that is

00:47:41 ◼   ► another version of the same story

00:47:43 ◼   ► that gets told many times, which is

00:47:45 ◼   ► like, just choose to do the

00:47:47 ◼   ► better thing.

00:47:48 ◼   ► And it's like, OK,

00:47:51 ◼   ► thanks. Thanks, man.

00:47:52 ◼   ► I'll be sure to do that.

00:47:53 ◼   ► That one is that one is

00:47:55 ◼   ► just astounding. Yeah.

00:47:56 ◼   ► But there's many people at

00:47:58 ◼   ► conferences and children and like these these are all like tropes of this genre

00:48:01 ◼   ► but this one has so many weird ones and it's like by the end I start feeling

00:48:07 ◼   ► almost personally offended by the constant refrain of just do the thing

00:48:15 ◼   ► that will make your life better and it's like screw you buddy like that is that

00:48:19 ◼   ► is not an answer like that is not an action right you can't like the way to

00:48:22 ◼   ► to love your wife is just love her.

00:48:24 ◼   ► Right? Like, OK, right, whatever.

00:48:26 ◼   ► Chill, dude.

00:48:27 ◼   ► It's like, all right.

00:48:29 ◼   ► Do you want to love her?

00:48:30 ◼   ► What's your problem?

00:48:30 ◼   ► Let's talk about the habits.

00:48:34 ◼   ► I have more of these things to talk about as we go through,

00:48:37 ◼   ► but I want to start talking about the habits.

00:48:39 ◼   ► But yeah, let's-- if we don't start talking about the habits--

00:48:41 ◼   ► We're never going to get to them.

00:48:42 ◼   ► --we will never stop.

00:48:43 ◼   ► We'll never get to them.

00:48:44 ◼   ► So let's go through this.

00:48:46 ◼   ► Again, I want to just state my position.

00:48:48 ◼   ► I am infuriated by all of these things.

00:48:50 ◼   ► I am so angry about the things that happen in this book like that, but I didn't find

00:48:54 ◼   ► myself just losing my mind like I did with the Emith. Because I feel like in Emith they

00:48:58 ◼   ► were just relentless and I feel at least there were some breaks here where he was talking

00:49:03 ◼   ► about some interesting stuff and I do believe that this book has more than just one thing

00:49:07 ◼   ► to take away from it.

00:49:08 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you in part by our friends at Hover. Building your online

00:49:13 ◼   ► identity has never been more important and with Hover you find the domain that shows

00:49:18 ◼   ► the world who you are and what you're passionate about.

00:49:22 ◼   ► What I love about Hover is their customer support team, the fact that everything is

00:49:26 ◼   ► super easy to set up and super easy to search for.

00:49:29 ◼   ► So their customer support team is best in class.

00:49:31 ◼   ► They have a Hover Connect feature which I used just a couple of weeks ago for setting

00:49:35 ◼   ► up the wedding website that I spoke about.

00:49:37 ◼   ► I was able to get the domain name that I bought set up with my website in just a few clicks,

00:49:41 ◼   ► I didn't have to enter in a bunch of DNS information.

00:49:44 ◼   ► And also they have Whois privacy as well for free so bad guys don't get my information.

00:49:49 ◼   ► I really love hover for these things.

00:49:51 ◼   ► And look I've mentioned stuff like getting a domain name for my wedding website.

00:49:56 ◼   ► This is something that I needed and hover made it simple.

00:49:58 ◼   ► This wasn't one of those things where I had to sit and think and scratch my chin about

00:50:03 ◼   ► what I was going to get.

00:50:04 ◼   ► I knew what I wanted and I could go in and get it really easily.

00:50:07 ◼   ► Whatever type of project or reason no matter what it is hover has the tools that you need

00:50:11 ◼   ► and the domain name options that you want to get it done.

00:50:14 ◼   ► Like for example, what if you want to create a blog?

00:50:17 ◼   ► Well, by using the .blog domain extension, you can tell everyone exactly what to expect.

00:50:23 ◼   ► When they go to your website, they know they're going to get awesome and relevant content

00:50:27 ◼   ► about you or your business, rather than just a generic homepage, because the site is called

00:50:31 ◼   ► .blog.

00:50:32 ◼   ► So let's say that you're a blogger or a company even that's trying to create new leads or

00:50:36 ◼   ► inform your customer base or just you want to talk about what's going on in your life.

00:50:40 ◼   ► You could use .blog instead of something generic like .com or .biz.

00:50:44 ◼   ► People know what they're going to get when they see it.

00:50:46 ◼   ► Stand out and build your online identity with the perfect domain name for you or your business.

00:50:51 ◼   ► New Hover customers can get 10% off any of the over 400 name extensions by going to hover.com/cortex

00:50:57 ◼   ► of course including .blog.

00:50:59 ◼   ► Our thanks to Hover for their support of this show.

00:51:03 ◼   ► The habits are broken down into two and a half categories.

00:51:07 ◼   ► The first three are classified as private victory,

00:51:11 ◼   ► and or independence, and then four to six

00:51:14 ◼   ► are classified as public victory, or interdependence,

00:51:16 ◼   ► which is working with others, and the seventh habit

00:51:19 ◼   ► is just about renewing all of the sixth.

00:51:22 ◼   ► So it's an interesting structure,

00:51:25 ◼   ► and I actually quite like the structure.

00:51:26 ◼   ► So the first three are classified as proactivity,

00:51:30 ◼   ► beginning with the end in mind,

00:51:32 ◼   ► and putting first things first.

00:51:33 ◼   ► So habit one is proactivity, and the idea,

00:51:36 ◼   ► And there's a great summary on Wikipedia for each of these, and I pulled some of that out

00:51:41 ◼   ► just to try and give a concise explanation for them.

00:51:44 ◼   ► So be proactive in understanding your circle of influence and your circle of concern.

00:51:50 ◼   ► So the things that you can influence about yourself and the people that you need to be

00:51:54 ◼   ► concerned about, the things that you need to try and change, and not to just sit and

00:51:58 ◼   ► wait in a reactive mode, waiting for problems to happen, before you take action.

00:52:02 ◼   ► You should be out there and taking action.

00:52:04 ◼   ► And a lot of it is about understanding the language that you use and the way that you

00:52:07 ◼   ► think about things.

00:52:09 ◼   ► So I really liked this one example of saying things instead of "I have to do something",

00:52:15 ◼   ► you say that you choose to do something or instead of "I wish I had done this" to "I

00:52:20 ◼   ► can be this" or "I can do this".

00:52:23 ◼   ► And I really like this as a start because it was like saying to me, the reader, "Think

00:52:29 ◼   ► about yourself, think about the way that you approach problems, think about the way that

00:52:33 ◼   ► approach opportunities and how you refer to them and try and understand the things that you're able

00:52:40 ◼   ► to change and the things that you are able to kind of influence to change. And I found it to be an

00:52:46 ◼   ► interesting way to start off and it's something that I know that in my life I have gotten better

00:52:52 ◼   ► about over time but there was definitely a period of time for me when I was in bank branch management

00:53:00 ◼   ► where I was not being proactive and I was more focused on the fact that these bad things are just happening to me

00:53:06 ◼   ► and I'm not, you know, and there's nothing I can do about it

00:53:10 ◼   ► rather than what I ended up working out later was like why am I doing this? I don't like this

00:53:14 ◼   ► I need to go out and change something

00:53:16 ◼   ► so I did actually quite like this, it felt like a good start

00:53:19 ◼   ► it was just a shame that it started at two hours and 22 minutes

00:53:22 ◼   ► yeah, just a small note before we move on

00:53:25 ◼   ► on. While you did note that the first habit comes in at two hours and whatever minutes,

00:53:31 ◼   ► one of the remarks that I have here in my highlights is the first promotion of the Stephen

00:53:37 ◼   ► Covey business starts at exactly one minute into the book.

00:53:41 ◼   ► So there was a little bit of a thing to notice there.

00:53:45 ◼   ► Yeah, this is interesting because in the actual book, there's not a lot of it, right? Because

00:53:51 ◼   ► he's talking more about being a teacher because that's what he was when he was writing

00:53:55 ◼   ► this book, mostly. But the foreword is after this book has changed his life and he is now

00:54:03 ◼   ► a management consultant, right? So he's doing these seminars and stuff which he mentions

00:54:07 ◼   ► in the book, but like if I'm reading it correctly, like it wasn't what it ended

00:54:12 ◼   ► up becoming. Like he doesn't make reference to the Covey business empire based upon the

00:54:19 ◼   ► the seven habits during the book because it doesn't exist yet, but the forward is full

00:54:24 ◼   ► of it, which is hilarious.

00:54:25 ◼   ► Right, yeah, it comes right out of the gate.

00:54:28 ◼   ► But I thought that was just kind of funny, and it's whatever.

00:54:31 ◼   ► But I also agree, the first chapter was interesting, and I'll say in fairness to the book, I think

00:54:39 ◼   ► if it catches you at the right moment in your life, I genuinely think that that first chapter

00:54:44 ◼   ► can open up a bunch of people's minds to the way that they think about things.

00:54:47 ◼   ► purely the language stuff like that

00:54:50 ◼   ► I found to be the most interesting, one of the most interesting things of the entire book actually for me

00:54:56 ◼   ► Because it really made me think about huh, how do I say this stuff and why do I say it that way?

00:55:02 ◼   ► Yeah, you know like I have to do this. Why do I have to do anything? I can choose right, right?

00:55:08 ◼   ► I found it really interesting

00:55:09 ◼   ► Yeah, it was and it reminded me of a little language thing which of course was like a totally hopeless lost cause as a teacher

00:55:17 ◼   ► But when I used to have kids come up and say like,

00:55:19 ◼   ► "Oh, I gave them a bad grade."

00:55:21 ◼   ► I would always use the language of like,

00:55:23 ◼   ► "No, you earned a bad grade."

00:55:25 ◼   ► Or like, "I didn't give you a bad grade,

00:55:28 ◼   ► like you earned a bad grade."

00:55:30 ◼   ► Just because again--

00:55:31 ◼   ► - You didn't turn in a good paper

00:55:32 ◼   ► that I ended up changing until it became bad.

00:55:34 ◼   ► Right, like it wasn't that bad when you gave it to me.

00:55:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, and just changing a little bit

00:55:40 ◼   ► of the language around that.

00:55:41 ◼   ► It's like you are an active participant in this process.

00:55:45 ◼   ► you're not just sitting there and I'm handing out grades like there's a thing that's happening between the two of us.

00:55:51 ◼   ► And I do, like I said, I think if you're at the right stage in your life that this might just catch you in the right moment.

00:56:01 ◼   ► And I don't know what the timeline of this is, but I was just wondering because a lot of this reminded me of,

00:56:10 ◼   ► I have a relative who is a psychologist and works with like people who've been through some trauma and unwinding them about that and talking about the process of

00:56:20 ◼   ► teaching people to interrupt their own thoughts, like teaching people to catch themselves

00:56:25 ◼   ► thinking in terms of the world is doing something to them versus you are an actor in the world.

00:56:31 ◼   ► And it's just, it's very interesting, like I talked to her about like, it sounds very interesting, like the way that she works with people to say like,

00:56:38 ◼   ► Like if you have a fear of heights, like how do you work someone out through that?

00:56:43 ◼   ► And part of it is like this change of you are an actor in the world, like you are not

00:56:48 ◼   ► the result of all of the actions upon you.

00:56:52 ◼   ► So it was just kind of reminding me about this thing.

00:56:56 ◼   ► I've gone through some of that sort of stuff and read some of it.

00:56:58 ◼   ► It's cognitive behavioral therapy.

00:57:00 ◼   ► Like I've looked into some of that at times in my life.

00:57:02 ◼   ► Like when I was struggling with some of my work stuff, this was a great help to me, was

00:57:08 ◼   ► going through some of this stuff because there are some very valuable things in that. The

00:57:14 ◼   ► idea of understanding that you can't control everything, things happen, and how do you

00:57:19 ◼   ► react to them and how do you change the way that you think and say stuff to be better

00:57:23 ◼   ► in the world? It is a very powerful thing. When Habit One was being read to me by Mr.

00:57:30 ◼   ► Covey himself, I was reminded of a lot of these types of learnings and it was like,

00:57:36 ◼   ► Okay, this is good.

00:57:37 ◼   ► That's interesting.

00:57:38 ◼   ► Okay, so you saw the similarities to that too.

00:57:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I did.

00:57:41 ◼   ► I've only just heard about this in like a secondhand way and I just think like, oh,

00:57:44 ◼   ► okay, this sounds like a very similar idea.

00:57:46 ◼   ► And at least talking to my family member who does this, it seems like if you've got serious

00:57:50 ◼   ► business about behavior change in humans, this seems to be one of the most effective

00:57:53 ◼   ► ways to go about it.

00:57:54 ◼   ► Like as far as we know right now.

00:57:56 ◼   ► I also, I did just really like the, I think there is a way that he phrased something,

00:58:03 ◼   ► which is a better way of phrasing an idea that you and I have sometimes spoken about,

00:58:07 ◼   ► like how we don't really follow the news, right, or intentionally not following a whole

00:58:11 ◼   ► bunch of things.

00:58:13 ◼   ► And I'm always trying to encourage people to just sort of, I don't want to say like,

00:58:20 ◼   ► be less aware of the world, but in a sense, I kind of am like, focus on the things that

00:58:23 ◼   ► you can do.

00:58:24 ◼   ► But I did really like his phrasing of this idea that everybody has this circle of things

00:58:30 ◼   ► that they're concerned about, and that circle is larger than the things that you can influence.

00:58:37 ◼   ► And I did think that language change was is an interesting way to frame it because it's like,

00:58:42 ◼   ► oh, of course, people get trapped and caught up in constantly thinking about the things that are

00:58:50 ◼   ► inside their circle of concern, but that are outside their circle of influence. And I just,

00:58:57 ◼   ► I thought like that's a really interesting way to differently frame this idea.

00:59:04 ◼   ► And I think that is also again like,

00:59:06 ◼   ► maybe for a person at the right moment that idea can be really liberating to recognize that like,

00:59:13 ◼   ► yes, there are many things you may be concerned about over which you have absolutely no influence.

00:59:19 ◼   ► And so you have to make a decision about not obsessively thinking about that stuff,

00:59:25 ◼   ► or working to expand your circle of influence so that you can actually do something about it

00:59:31 ◼   ► that is no longer outside of your power.

00:59:34 ◼   ► So I thought that was also a good way to frame this concept of selective ignorance in a way.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Habit two is begin with the end in mind.

00:59:47 ◼   ► Now, I thought that this habit went off the rails incredibly quickly, but turn me around.

00:59:53 ◼   ► So this habit is about envisioning what you want in the future so you can plan

00:59:58 ◼   ► and work towards it and to be effect and the idea is to be effective you need to

01:00:03 ◼   ► act based on principles and constantly reviewing a mission statement that you

01:00:07 ◼   ► create. So there are two main things in this part which is one the envisioning

01:00:12 ◼   ► of the future and then the second is the mission statement. Now I it was really

01:00:17 ◼   ► interesting to me because these things were both introduced and my mind was

01:00:22 ◼   ► changed about each of them in a 180. So the first is the way he begins talking about envisioning

01:00:27 ◼   ► your future is, let's picture your funeral. And my eyes nearly rolled right out of my

01:00:32 ◼   ► head.

01:00:33 ◼   ► I know. Yeah, I had the exact same experience of like, ugh.

01:00:38 ◼   ► And the idea is, what would you like to hear people say about you? Like, and the idea is

01:00:44 ◼   ► someone that you work with, someone who would talk about your character and someone who

01:00:47 ◼   ► would be a friend or family member. And what difference would you like to have on people's

01:00:51 ◼   ► lives and he says to work out like you know write down what you would want and by the end of this

01:00:57 ◼   ► whilst he was clearly going for a shock factor with the let's picture your funeral

01:01:02 ◼   ► i found it an interesting exercise because trying to think about what do i want to be thought as

01:01:11 ◼   ► people that i work with people that i care about how do i want them to think of me like how would

01:01:19 ◼   ► I want them to describe me? It doesn't need to be at my funeral, right? But that was a

01:01:23 ◼   ► bit too much. But what what do and I found that to be…

01:01:27 ◼   ► Memento mori, Myke. I found that to be an interesting exercise

01:01:32 ◼   ► that I took something from, right? Like I wrote some stuff down and I was like, I like

01:01:37 ◼   ► this. This is a good thing to think about because then how does that affect your life

01:01:43 ◼   ► and the things that you do? Like if you want to be by the end of your life seen as these

01:01:48 ◼   ► three or four things, how do you get there?

01:01:50 ◼   ► And what path do you take to make sure you don't deviate from them?

01:01:53 ◼   ► I found that to be very interesting. So beginning with the end in mind,

01:01:57 ◼   ► so setting up your plan now for how you want to be seen at the end.

01:02:02 ◼   ► I kind of like that.

01:02:03 ◼   ► Yeah. I also, I couldn't deal with the funeral thing.

01:02:08 ◼   ► It was too much. It was silly.

01:02:09 ◼   ► Yeah. And for me it's, it's overblown and like weirdly pompous in a way.

01:02:15 ◼   ► like oh you're surrounded by all these loving people nobody has a better thing to do on a Tuesday afternoon than go to your funeral, right?

01:02:22 ◼   ► It's like whatever

01:02:24 ◼   ► But again, it does have a point and

01:02:29 ◼   ► There's a way of

01:02:33 ◼   ► I think the life scale is too big

01:02:36 ◼   ► but it is an interesting question when people are working on projects of

01:02:40 ◼   ► I kind of like to phrase it like what's the best thing that could possibly come out of what you're working on right now?

01:02:46 ◼   ► Like if everything went absolutely great,

01:02:48 ◼   ► what's the biggest possible upside of this thing that you're working on? And very often like if you sort of think about

01:02:55 ◼   ► that you can realize that some projects just aren't worth spending the time on.

01:03:00 ◼   ► But people can end up starting them. I think because they're sort of skipping this idea of

01:03:06 ◼   ► thinking about what does the final version of this look like.

01:03:10 ◼   ► So yeah, I think that

01:03:13 ◼   ► the whole arc of your life doesn't really work for me,

01:03:17 ◼   ► but I think this is a valuable concept on a smaller scale of have a clear idea in your mind of what you're trying to

01:03:24 ◼   ► achieve

01:03:25 ◼   ► and that will help direct your actions towards what it is you actually want to need to do in order to make that happen.

01:03:33 ◼   ► Then the second part of this is the personal mission statement, which is the thing that you create and adapt and update

01:03:39 ◼   ► Throughout your life to try and keep you on the course towards what you want to be remembered for

01:03:43 ◼   ► And I was like that's an interesting idea until the personal mission statement became

01:03:49 ◼   ► three to four to five to six to seven paragraphs long I

01:03:52 ◼   ► Was expecting a sentence or two?

01:03:55 ◼   ► Right like a real kind of like a thing you put on the wall and you could look at it every day and be like

01:04:01 ◼   ► that's what I want to be. But these personal mission statements were like novella length

01:04:06 ◼   ► for each person that was talking about them, and it completely lost me, right?

01:04:10 ◼   ► - It's not surprising, like, Covey's not a brief guy, right? So it's not surprising that his

01:04:16 ◼   ► personal mission statement would be like, "Let's sit down and write a little novella."

01:04:19 ◼   ► - But then, like, every example he was giving for these totally 100% real people was the same,

01:04:25 ◼   ► right? And it was like, it was so frustrating to me because it built me up, right, to this idea

01:04:31 ◼   ► I was like, I am on board with this. This is really great. And then it was like, you've

01:04:35 ◼   ► destroyed it because I don't want to have to sit on a beach for an hour like you do

01:04:41 ◼   ► every year to write my mission statement. Like, this is something that if I'm going

01:04:46 ◼   ► to do this, I want it to be a short thing. He actually at one point compares it in length

01:04:50 ◼   ► and importance to the American Constitution.

01:04:52 ◼   ► Yeah, that's great. Yep.

01:04:54 ◼   ► Right? It's like, do you understand that maybe you've gone too far at this point?

01:05:00 ◼   ► And also that's that's probably a big ask

01:05:02 ◼   ► Like someone who's reading this book and is trying to turn their life around you're like look just sit down and write a constitution for you

01:05:08 ◼   ► Yeah, like whoa

01:05:10 ◼   ► So again like that I might

01:05:14 ◼   ► Take this and twist it right and and because I have now the things that I think about right like what?

01:05:21 ◼   ► What do I want to be remembered as maybe I should try and turn that into something which is a bit little bit more realistic

01:05:26 ◼   ► For me, so it's like this again. This is why

01:05:29 ◼   ► I am a little bit more on board with this book than Emeth because you know

01:05:34 ◼   ► We're not that far into it and I've come away with some things that whilst not perfect. I actually think work pretty well

01:05:40 ◼   ► Mm-hmm, you know like the circle of influence circle concern

01:05:43 ◼   ► I think is is very interesting and it it perfectly explains something that I struggle to explain to people same way that you do

01:05:50 ◼   ► And the idea of beginning with the end in mind and kind of how you want to move towards

01:05:57 ◼   ► Creating something which can encapsulate that there's some interesting stuff in that for me before we move on Myke though before we get on to habit

01:06:03 ◼   ► Three I just want to pause here for a moment to point out that habit two is when Stephen Covey

01:06:08 ◼   ► Visits the same magic hotel. Yes, that is in email three visit it

01:06:13 ◼   ► When I got to this point

01:06:16 ◼   ► It I actually had almost like a childish glee of like oh my god. It's another magic hotel. I'm sitting on the airplane

01:06:23 ◼   ► I'm like

01:06:25 ◼   ► I think I was walking through Covent Garden and I think I started laughing out loud when

01:06:31 ◼   ► he when he was talking about his magic hotel. Our favorite part of the E-Myth revisited

01:06:37 ◼   ► is this hotel that the author goes to which is completely fictional, cannot exist in real

01:06:41 ◼   ► life. I did some digging. Apparently this hotel is a chain and it does exist. But again,

01:06:47 ◼   ► I don't believe that it goes the way that it does where this hotel created their own

01:06:51 ◼   ► personal mission statement, which is funnily enough is the same vernacular that he uses

01:06:55 ◼   ► when the book has not been published, because apparently that's a thing.

01:06:58 ◼   ► And that literally everybody in the company, from the housekeeping to the janitors to the

01:07:04 ◼   ► bellboys to the everything, everybody sat down and was 100% engaged in creating this

01:07:10 ◼   ► personal mission statement.

01:07:11 ◼   ► Like don't lie to me.

01:07:13 ◼   ► Tell me if this thing exists, that's fine.

01:07:15 ◼   ► But it wasn't like that.

01:07:17 ◼   ► It just doesn't work like that.

01:07:19 ◼   ► Yeah, there's several things here.

01:07:21 ◼   ► I mean, according to the book, this mission statement for the hotel was the hub of a great wheel.

01:07:27 ◼   ► It spawned the thoughtful, more specialized mission statements of particular groups and employees.

01:07:31 ◼   ► And it was used as the criteria for every decision that was made.

01:07:35 ◼   ► It clarified what people stood for, how they related to the customers, how they related to each other.

01:07:40 ◼   ► This is one of these moments, and there's an example that happens a few pages earlier, which is a similar thing,

01:07:47 ◼   ► which, I don't know how to describe it, but I think of it as a kind of CEO disease,

01:07:52 ◼   ► where, okay, let's say this hotel existed,

01:07:54 ◼   ► and let's say the hotel got everybody from the janitors to the CEO together,

01:07:59 ◼   ► and they did all work on a mission statement, and a document was created.

01:08:04 ◼   ► Right?

01:08:04 ◼   ► I don't know about you, but my experience doing that kind of stuff,

01:08:10 ◼   ► like when I was working for someone,

01:08:11 ◼   ► is that the rank-and-file employees are all thinking,

01:08:15 ◼   ► Like, this is a total BS day where we have to have a silly pointless meeting.

01:08:20 ◼   ► And the people on top seem to think that something amazing has occurred,

01:08:23 ◼   ► and there's like a great difference in the experience of what people think is happening in the room.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Right? And so it's like, even if this happens and I believe it,

01:08:34 ◼   ► it's like, I just don't believe that the janitors at the hotel are like,

01:08:38 ◼   ► "You know what? I feel really on board with the value and position of this hotel."

01:08:42 ◼   ► Like, I just don't believe that.

01:08:44 ◼   ► I think the janitors are busy thinking like, "Man, I got a lot of stuff to clean up today,

01:08:48 ◼   ► and this meeting is just making me have to stay after hours to work longer."

01:08:52 ◼   ► Like, I think that's what's really happening when this occurs.

01:08:55 ◼   ► The closest I've ever gotten to this is I worked for a company when I was in college,

01:09:00 ◼   ► where it's a big company, it's a big department store chain in the UK,

01:09:05 ◼   ► where they distribute the company's profits to the employees.

01:09:11 ◼   ► OK, right there, that is genuinely meaningful.

01:09:13 ◼   ► Right. That's a different thing because it's not like words on a page.

01:09:17 ◼   ► It's money in your pocket.

01:09:18 ◼   ► So this is a huge company, make a lot of money.

01:09:21 ◼   ► And every year, every single person gets a bonus,

01:09:24 ◼   ► which is a percentage of their salary from interesting.

01:09:28 ◼   ► The person who is pushing shopping carts

01:09:32 ◼   ► through the parking lot to the CEO.

01:09:35 ◼   ► Everybody gets the same percentage.

01:09:37 ◼   ► Obviously, the amount differs, but everybody gets the same percentage.

01:09:41 ◼   ► that percent it shrinks or grows depending on how well the company does.

01:09:44 ◼   ► And I saw things in that working for that company that I have never seen since.

01:09:48 ◼   ► Like, for example, the last person who leaves the staff changing room

01:09:53 ◼   ► turns the lights off at night because the electricity bill goes towards the bonus.

01:09:56 ◼   ► Like little things like that, where I saw a lot more buy in in that company

01:10:02 ◼   ► than I've seen in any other company, because there is an actual thing

01:10:06 ◼   ► that you can point to to show that if we all work towards this together, we get something.

01:10:13 ◼   ► Yeah. That is a perfect example of what I always feel is like what really matters is it's not words,

01:10:21 ◼   ► it's not trying harder, it's a structure that encourages or rewards the actual behavior that

01:10:27 ◼   ► you want. And in this book, it's so clear that it's like, if you're the leader of a company,

01:10:35 ◼   ► your words are just our magic pixie dust that's spread on your employees and then they just behave

01:10:40 ◼   ► in ways that you want them to do. It's like that is not the way it is and yeah your description of

01:10:45 ◼   ► that is interesting. That's like oh look if you set up an actual structure that encourages the

01:10:49 ◼   ► behavior that you want you're probably going to get more of the behavior that you want but the

01:10:53 ◼   ► thing is like that might cost you in other ways right you can't just say costless words and get

01:11:00 ◼   ► get the same result.

01:11:01 ◼   ► Habit three, put first things

01:11:06 ◼   ► first.

01:11:07 ◼   ► So this talks about the difference between leadership and management.

01:11:10 ◼   ► Leadership in the outside world begins with personal vision and personal

01:11:13 ◼   ► leadership. And it also talks about all of that stuff.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Leadership and management. I have no time for it.

01:11:18 ◼   ► I've heard too much of it. I can't talk about it.

01:11:20 ◼   ► I have literally no personal notes about that entire part of the book

01:11:24 ◼   ► because I could give a crap about the difference between leadership and

01:11:27 ◼   ► management.

01:11:28 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

01:11:29 ◼   ► Yeah, this kind of stuff is like skim, skim, skim.

01:11:32 ◼   ► But for me, habit three, put first things first.

01:11:35 ◼   ► This is where when I say my review was one good idea

01:11:38 ◼   ► in a thousand pages, this is the chapter that to me

01:11:41 ◼   ► had the one good idea.

01:11:43 ◼   ► - Yes, and I, when I was reading it--

01:11:46 ◼   ► - You know what I'm going for?

01:11:47 ◼   ► - I knew you were gonna like this.

01:11:49 ◼   ► - Right, okay, yeah.

01:11:50 ◼   ► So I don't know if this is, here's a question.

01:11:53 ◼   ► I don't know if this is original to Stephen Covey.

01:11:55 ◼   ► I was trying to do a little bit of digging around

01:11:59 ◼   ► and it seems like this idea predates him,

01:12:01 ◼   ► but it doesn't matter because this is the first place

01:12:03 ◼   ► that I came across this idea

01:12:05 ◼   ► where he talks about time management matrix.

01:12:10 ◼   ► And the time management matrix is this four by four grid

01:12:14 ◼   ► where you talk about all of you,

01:12:17 ◼   ► everything that you have to do,

01:12:19 ◼   ► you can categorize in a couple of ways, right?

01:12:21 ◼   ► You have things that are urgent and things

01:12:24 ◼   ► that are not urgent, and you have things that are important,

01:12:28 ◼   ► and you have things that are not important.

01:12:30 ◼   ► So you can think about your tasks in that way,

01:12:33 ◼   ► and that ends up with what he labels

01:12:35 ◼   ► as these little boxes, right?

01:12:36 ◼   ► So like box one is stuff that is urgent and important, right?

01:12:41 ◼   ► And then you have like box three is stuff that is urgent,

01:12:44 ◼   ► but not important.

01:12:46 ◼   ► And you can move around all these different categories.

01:12:48 ◼   ► And this is the thing that I really like

01:12:51 ◼   ► because it's a clear way

01:12:56 ◼   ► to frame your work that I think is non-obvious to lots of people.

01:13:02 ◼   ► And the idea that it is so easy to get sucked up into work that is urgent, but not important,

01:13:13 ◼   ► like this is a death trap of productivity.

01:13:16 ◼   ► And I remember really trying to apply this in a whole bunch of ways,

01:13:21 ◼   ► and really feeling like I get this idea that in order to make significant progress,

01:13:29 ◼   ► you're going to have to drop a bunch of stuff that is urgent but not important,

01:13:34 ◼   ► and instead just focus on the things that are not urgent but are important.

01:13:40 ◼   ► Like there's trade-offs.

01:13:42 ◼   ► You're going to have to let some stuff slide.

01:13:44 ◼   ► And here is a good matrix for making a decision about,

01:13:49 ◼   ► In the universe of the infinite number of things that you can do, these are the things

01:13:53 ◼   ► that you should drop.

01:13:54 ◼   ► And this is the one section of the book that I think benefits from.

01:13:57 ◼   ► He has more concrete examples here where he's talking about like you're having a conversation

01:14:03 ◼   ► with someone and then the phone rings while you're talking to them.

01:14:05 ◼   ► Like the phone is the thing that is urgent, but the person that you're talking to is important,

01:14:10 ◼   ► but it's incredibly hard for almost everybody to like resist the ringing of the phone.

01:14:14 ◼   ► And he goes through a bunch of these things.

01:14:16 ◼   ► I think it's really good.

01:14:18 ◼   ► And I also like he's talking about this idea that a lot of these longer term things that

01:14:26 ◼   ► you can work on that are not urgent but important are also the things that give you more time

01:14:32 ◼   ► later because you're establishing a much more solid foundation about how your routine and

01:14:37 ◼   ► how your work life goes.

01:14:38 ◼   ► And so this to me is like the core of the book is this little section which is at the

01:14:43 ◼   ► the end of of habit three and I think it's the the most valuable

01:14:48 ◼   ► per page section of the book. So I did really like this. I

01:14:53 ◼   ► liked the idea of one of the things that comes out of this

01:14:57 ◼   ► is learning to be able to say no to things right from knowing

01:15:01 ◼   ► that you have a better yes available to you. Yeah. Yeah.

01:15:06 ◼   ► I loved I mean I've heard a million times and said a

01:15:09 ◼   ► million times about being able to say no and understanding

01:15:12 ◼   ► how to be able to say no and actually saying no.

01:15:15 ◼   ► But the idea of the second part of that,

01:15:17 ◼   ► which is because you know there are better yeses

01:15:20 ◼   ► available to you, is very interesting to me.

01:15:23 ◼   ► Like understanding what is important to you

01:15:26 ◼   ► so you can help better gauge opportunities.

01:15:29 ◼   ► Like if you get something that comes to you

01:15:31 ◼   ► which is urgent but not important,

01:15:33 ◼   ► and you can say no to it, say no to it

01:15:35 ◼   ► because there might be something that is urgent

01:15:37 ◼   ► and important that you will need to deal with soon.

01:15:40 ◼   ► And like a lot of these, like meetings.

01:15:42 ◼   ► many meetings that might come up.

01:15:44 ◼   ► You could probably say no to.

01:15:46 ◼   ► Right, like you maybe don't need to be at that meeting

01:15:48 ◼   ► because you have something that you know is gonna be there

01:15:51 ◼   ► which is important for you.

01:15:52 ◼   ► So the idea of knowing you have better yeses available,

01:15:55 ◼   ► understanding what is important to you

01:15:57 ◼   ► and what is urgent to you and focus on those things

01:16:00 ◼   ► and then finding ways to delegate

01:16:02 ◼   ► and or not do the other stuff,

01:16:04 ◼   ► very powerful way of thinking about it.

01:16:06 ◼   ► And you know, drawing out this grid,

01:16:09 ◼   ► the time management matrix that he talks about.

01:16:12 ◼   ► I've drawn it out in my Apple notes as he was explaining it

01:16:15 ◼   ► and I liked the way that that all looked.

01:16:17 ◼   ► It's difficult to explain but simple to see

01:16:19 ◼   ► and you can find this stuff and I'll find some links

01:16:21 ◼   ► and put them into the notes so you can see

01:16:22 ◼   ► what it looks like 'cause if you can actually see it,

01:16:25 ◼   ► it starts to make a lot more sense.

01:16:27 ◼   ► The rest of this chapter though, a lot of it,

01:16:30 ◼   ► maybe like two thirds of it is talking

01:16:32 ◼   ► about time management methods.

01:16:34 ◼   ► Didn't listen, didn't care.

01:16:35 ◼   ► It was just happening to me.

01:16:37 ◼   ► I'm not interested in a book from 1989 talking to me about time management because the tools

01:16:44 ◼   ► are not the same anymore. And I know some of the fundamental purposes and the fundamental

01:16:49 ◼   ► ideas will be the same. But here's at points talking about specific functions and tools

01:16:54 ◼   ► and like planners and notebooks. It's like, no. Like I might or might not use something

01:16:59 ◼   ► like this, but there are better systems out there now, stuff like bullet journaling, which

01:17:03 ◼   ► I'm more interested in looking at than listening to Stephen Carrey in 1989 telling me how to manage my time.

01:17:09 ◼   ► I feel like a pre-internet age book is maybe not the best place to get this stuff from.

01:17:15 ◼   ► Yeah, no, it's not good for this stuff. And while I do really like that section and you know

01:17:21 ◼   ► it's maybe like three or four pages where he's going through how to think about this,

01:17:25 ◼   ► then I feel like oh the book briefly elevates to something good and then it quickly descends because at the end

01:17:31 ◼   ► There's a section where he's posing the question to himself about like, "But how do you know what is important?"

01:17:38 ◼   ► And like, "That's a good question."

01:17:40 ◼   ► "How do you know what is important in your life?" And the answer is,

01:17:44 ◼   ► "Your principal center, your self-awareness, and your consciousness can provide a high degree of intrinsic security, guidance, and wisdom

01:17:51 ◼   ► to empower you to use your independent will and maintain integrity to that which is truly important."

01:18:00 ◼   ► Go to hell, man. Right? Like, that's not an ant. Like, you'll just-- like, this is again, like, the recurring theme of, like,

01:18:06 ◼   ► you'll just make good decisions. Like, oh, you'll just know what's truly-- it was like, ugh.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Like, don't say anything if you're gonna say that, because you might as well not say anything and it infuriates me. But yeah, it--

01:18:17 ◼   ► the-- after that section, like, the chapter rapidly descends, and I do have to say we're up to-- we're up to

01:18:25 ◼   ► Habit 3 and from from this point on the book to me descends rapidly into worthlessness like I think

01:18:33 ◼   ► 99% of the value is in the first three chapters and you could take those three first three chapters and decrease them by

01:18:42 ◼   ► 75% and get out out from the book most of what you're gonna get out of it

01:18:48 ◼   ► Okay

01:18:49 ◼   ► So I mostly agree with you and I wonder if this is a thing about me and you as opposed to the book

01:18:55 ◼   ► Okay, what do you mean?

01:18:58 ◼   ► The first three chapters are focused mostly on working on your own skills and how you

01:19:05 ◼   ► make yourself more effective. The next three are about working with other people in what

01:19:14 ◼   ► seems to be focused on large groups and lots of people. And I think that there is a lot

01:19:21 ◼   ► of this stuff which is like how are you more effective in a business meeting with 12 people

01:19:26 ◼   ► in the room? How are you more effective in doing a deal with a multinational corporation?

01:19:31 ◼   ► Like things that I think that me and you have mostly moved away from in our lives because

01:19:37 ◼   ► that's not the type of work that interests us. Like we are more focused on being independent

01:19:42 ◼   ► and having our own small businesses as opposed to being a cog in a huge machine. Which I think

01:19:48 ◼   ► habits four, five, and six seem to focus a lot more on.

01:19:53 ◼   ► Like they seem to be really focused

01:19:55 ◼   ► on working in a corporation.

01:19:58 ◼   ► That's what I'm trying to get to with this.

01:19:59 ◼   ► Like they seem to be way more focused

01:20:02 ◼   ► on how do you become the best employee

01:20:07 ◼   ► out of the 10,000 employees of your company.

01:20:10 ◼   ► And I wonder if maybe me and you don't take so much from this

01:20:14 ◼   ► 'cause I don't, I didn't really,

01:20:16 ◼   ► All of the stuff that I like is in one, two, and three.

01:20:19 ◼   ► Four, five, and six.

01:20:20 ◼   ► There are some nuggets in there that are interesting,

01:20:22 ◼   ► but there is like one or two of the habits

01:20:25 ◼   ► that are just completely pointless to me.

01:20:27 ◼   ► And I wonder if it's just something about

01:20:30 ◼   ► how me and you think, or if they are mostly that way.

01:20:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:20:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, there is something to that,

01:20:36 ◼   ► that this is less focused to us.

01:20:40 ◼   ► It's funny, I didn't so much get the feeling

01:20:42 ◼   ► that this is necessarily part of being a very large group.

01:20:46 ◼   ► I, obviously the whole point of the next three is,

01:20:49 ◼   ► it is about working with people,

01:20:51 ◼   ► but I didn't have that feeling so much that it's like,

01:20:54 ◼   ► you're a cog in this machine.

01:20:56 ◼   ► Maybe it's partly because he's so still much incredibly

01:20:59 ◼   ► talking about his family, like in win-win solutions for him

01:21:01 ◼   ► and his wife and his children.

01:21:03 ◼   ► - There is a possibility that I'm applying this

01:21:05 ◼   ► to things that I have experienced.

01:21:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, that you're thinking of it in this way.

01:21:09 ◼   ► But I also think that it,

01:21:13 ◼   ► the ratio of the idea to the practicality of it

01:21:19 ◼   ► drops to absolutely nothing.

01:21:21 ◼   ► Like the Win-Win chapter in particular.

01:21:23 ◼   ► - This is Habit 4 Think Win-Win.

01:21:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, Habit 4 Think Win-Win

01:21:27 ◼   ► has some of the most crazy stories in terms of

01:21:31 ◼   ► the way to come up with win-win solutions

01:21:34 ◼   ► is to have a great win-win solution for everybody.

01:21:38 ◼   ► And that's just over and over again, where it's like,

01:21:41 ◼   ► oh, there's two people who didn't agree,

01:21:43 ◼   ► but then someone came up with a win-win solution

01:21:45 ◼   ► that served them both.

01:21:46 ◼   ► And there's something that, to me,

01:21:47 ◼   ► that felt so artificially constructed about these scenarios.

01:21:52 ◼   ► And it's like, man, most of the time,

01:21:53 ◼   ► if you're having a real disagreement with someone,

01:21:55 ◼   ► it's like the hard part is finding a win-win solution.

01:21:59 ◼   ► It's not the idea of, gee, I wish there was something

01:22:02 ◼   ► that both of us could get out of this.

01:22:03 ◼   ► Like it's, I found that these next chapters

01:22:07 ◼   ► have very, very little actionableness in them and it goes into real crazy town of like,

01:22:13 ◼   ► things are good when they're good and do the right stuff.

01:22:18 ◼   ► There was a lot of Habit 4, think Win-Win, that was gibberish to me, mostly.

01:22:24 ◼   ► The amount of different win-lose, lose-win, lose-lose-win, lose-lose-lose-lose, I couldn't

01:22:28 ◼   ► follow it.

01:22:29 ◼   ► I couldn't follow it.

01:22:31 ◼   ► It reminded me, there is a scene in The Office, I think it's like a whole episode.

01:22:34 ◼   ► Oh my God, I was thinking of the exact same thing.

01:22:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

01:22:38 ◼   ► When?

01:22:39 ◼   ► Like it's like, they must have got it from this book.

01:22:41 ◼   ► I can't imagine any other way, but it's the idea is balancing decisions and actions in such a way that everybody benefits and that relationships don't get damaged.

01:22:52 ◼   ► So you get what you want or relationships don't get damaged because you've given in to somebody else.

01:22:56 ◼   ► There is something interesting in that, um, which is, oh, it relates to something that I did.

01:23:02 ◼   ► We didn't talk about, which is the emotional bank account.

01:23:04 ◼   ► The emotional bank account is something a part of Habit 3. This is one of the many ideas

01:23:11 ◼   ► that Covey creates. However, whilst again he goes on way too long talking about this,

01:23:17 ◼   ► the idea of the emotional bank account I found to be an interesting one. And it is the idea

01:23:21 ◼   ► is that the amount of trust that you build as somebody helps you work with them in whatever

01:23:27 ◼   ► it is in your life. Family, business relationships. And you make deposits to the bank account

01:23:32 ◼   ► through doing good things and you make withdrawals from the emotional bank account through mistakes

01:23:36 ◼   ► that you make, bad things that you do, but they're just withdrawals because you've made

01:23:40 ◼   ► so many deposits that they just take a little bit from it rather than destroying everything.

01:23:44 ◼   ► This is the emotional bank account. Again, I liked it when he proposed it, but by the

01:23:48 ◼   ► end of the book, I'd heard it too many times. But he applies the win-win idea to the emotional

01:23:53 ◼   ► bank account because if you are not thinking in a win-win scenario, you may withdraw too

01:23:58 ◼   ► much from the bank account because people are losing, that kind of idea.

01:24:01 ◼   ► These two things they marry into each other in a way of trying to make sure

01:24:05 ◼   ► that you balance decisions so that everybody remains happy and trustful in

01:24:11 ◼   ► a relationship with some description. But the win-win stuff it's like he

01:24:16 ◼   ► could have actually spoken about it in five minutes but instead he took an hour

01:24:19 ◼   ► and a half. Like there is too much stuff in this and it becomes baffling to

01:24:25 ◼   ► understand by the time that he's done with it. Like just like I don't I had I

01:24:30 ◼   ► tried and could not get my head around it. But the idea effectively is just if

01:24:36 ◼   ► everybody wins, it's better for everybody's happiness in the long term.

01:24:39 ◼   ► Like you don't want to shaft somebody now because later on you may lose their

01:24:44 ◼   ► business, you know. And he gives some wild examples of huge deals he left on the

01:24:50 ◼   ► table and then companies come back and give them every penny that they've ever

01:24:54 ◼   ► made just for the pleasure of working with him. But I will say in my work, in my business,

01:25:01 ◼   ► part of what I do is advertising sales. I have always tried to work in this way of like if you

01:25:07 ◼   ► try and have a good relationship with people they're maybe going to be more likely to come

01:25:11 ◼   ► back to you in the future and if you maybe try and squeeze every penny out of somebody

01:25:16 ◼   ► you may harm the relationship. Like that is the nugget here which is interesting

01:25:21 ◼   ► But the problem with this habit, with this chapter, is it's incredibly overblown to the point of almost nonsensical-ness.

01:25:29 ◼   ► Yeah, and it's all there's also something about this chapter which strikes me as

01:25:33 ◼   ► This may be unfair, but it strikes me a little bit as like let's just teach murderers not to murder

01:25:40 ◼   ► Like I think people who are really focused on the idea of like I'm gonna I'm gonna screw over my business partners to get every

01:25:46 ◼   ► last penny today

01:25:47 ◼   ► Like I don't I don't think those people you're gonna do a great job of explaining the concept of long-term human relationships

01:25:54 ◼   ► I think people are

01:25:56 ◼   ► Again, like in my experience in business business as well as like people are already naturally on board with this idea or they aren't and I

01:26:03 ◼   ► just don't think there's a lot of

01:26:06 ◼   ► Motion across the aisle on this topic. So it strikes me as a like a somewhat pointless topic

01:26:14 ◼   ► Today's episode of Cortex is brought to you by timing the automatic time tracking app for Mac

01:26:19 ◼   ► Hey time tracking we spoke about that a bunch on this show some of you love it some of you find it tricky

01:26:25 ◼   ► It doesn't matter what it is

01:26:25 ◼   ► I know that time tracking can be a tricky thing

01:26:28 ◼   ► mostly for a lot of people because you have to start and stop timers it interrupts your workflow and

01:26:33 ◼   ► Honestly, you often forget to do it sometimes

01:26:35 ◼   ► But why should you be the one that has to do all that work timing automatically tracks how much time you're spending in each app

01:26:42 ◼   ► document an even website so you no longer have to worry about starting or stopping a

01:26:46 ◼   ► timer ever again. And because Timing collects more data than a regular time tracker, its

01:26:51 ◼   ► use extends far beyond billing hours. It shows you exactly when you are using which app or

01:26:58 ◼   ► website, when you slacked off and how productive you've been so you know how to improve your

01:27:02 ◼   ► productivity going forward. But Timing knows that your work doesn't just happen on your

01:27:06 ◼   ► Mac and that's why Timing's timeline automatically makes suggestions for filling gaps in your

01:27:11 ◼   ► timeline and can ask you what you did offline every time you return to your Mac. That way

01:27:16 ◼   ► you'll never forget to enter a meeting again.

01:27:20 ◼   ► There are loads of great graphs and charts that break down not just the apps that I've

01:27:23 ◼   ► been using, but also categorisations of the types of tasks that I will be completing in

01:27:28 ◼   ► them. These categories can be completely customised so when I'm, for example, in Logic, I can

01:27:33 ◼   ► say "oh whenever I'm in Logic, I'm editing a podcast" and that's an easy thing to do

01:27:37 ◼   ► do and then everything I categorise as podcasts can all go into one bin or into one category

01:27:42 ◼   ► no matter what type of app it is.

01:27:45 ◼   ► Timing can even give you a sense of what your most productive times are based upon the data

01:27:49 ◼   ► it sees from a perspective of weekdays all the way down to hours which is awesome.

01:27:55 ◼   ► These tools are great for just entering this information but what you really get the benefit

01:27:59 ◼   ► from is being able to get graphs and charts and statistics and figures because then you

01:28:04 ◼   ► you can use the information that you're logging, or the information in Timing's case that is

01:28:09 ◼   ► being logged automatically for you, because it's awesome like that, to make some real

01:28:13 ◼   ► changes about the way that you get your work done.

01:28:16 ◼   ► You can download the free 14 day trial by going to timingapp.com/cortex and save 10%

01:28:22 ◼   ► when you purchase. And Timing is also available on Setapp. Just check out the Timing website

01:28:28 ◼   ► for more details on that. So go to timingapp.com/cortex, find out more right now, get the 14 day free

01:28:34 ◼   ► free trial, save 10% or check it out on Setapp as well. Timing, stop worrying about time

01:28:39 ◼   ► and focus on doing your best work instead.

01:28:43 ◼   ► Habit 5, seek first to understand, then to be understood. Use empathetic listening to

01:28:49 ◼   ► genuinely understand a person which compels them to reciprocate the listening and take

01:28:54 ◼   ► an open mind to being influenced by you.

01:28:57 ◼   ► Okay, so if I was going to say the one interesting thing in this, diagnose before you prescribe.

01:29:03 ◼   ► all this needs to be. He explains it pretty well with another ludicrous example of how

01:29:08 ◼   ► like everyone in his town was at a football game and the only doctor they had and his

01:29:15 ◼   ► daughter was sick and she was a newborn and there was medicine. Like it was this wild

01:29:19 ◼   ► thing that explains the idea of before you try and tell someone what to do, listen to

01:29:24 ◼   ► them first. That's kind of it. But it is massively overblown. Ethos, pathos and logos comes

01:29:31 ◼   ► up at one point. I didn't get what that was all about. The whole idea of empathetic

01:29:36 ◼   ► listening is interesting. You know, you mimic what somebody says, rephrase it, reflect the

01:29:42 ◼   ► feelings, right? So like you're listening to what people are saying, you're showing

01:29:45 ◼   ► them that you're listening by repeating to them what they're saying, etc, etc. There's

01:29:49 ◼   ► some interesting stuff in there. But this has one of the most overblown examples that

01:29:58 ◼   ► he gives, I've been saving for this moment.

01:30:00 ◼   ► Which is when he is talking to his son about being a mechanic.

01:30:04 ◼   ► Oh god, okay.

01:30:07 ◼   ► Do you remember this one?

01:30:09 ◼   ► I'm trying to remember because this one was one of the like, I'm skipping the fastest

01:30:15 ◼   ► through here because I know it's like, yeah, I'm on board with the idea of trying to understand

01:30:20 ◼   ► someone before you do these things and I was having a hard time.

01:30:25 ◼   ► So start me with the mechanic story because I'm not remembering it off the top of my

01:30:27 ◼   ► head. So he's saying about, I think he, I don't remember if he's saying this is his son or he's

01:30:34 ◼   ► just creating an example, right, of, and I think he might mention this at one point, about a kid

01:30:41 ◼   ► who, yeah, he does actually say like this is one, he's just posing an idea here, right,

01:30:47 ◼   ► it's like maybe imagine this happening, a kid who comes to their father and doesn't want to go to

01:30:52 ◼   ► school anymore and says I don't want to go to school anymore and he plays out this conversation

01:30:57 ◼   ► He plays both sides of his conversation and the kid is like "I don't want to go to school"

01:31:02 ◼   ► and the dad's like "well we worked really hard to send you to school" and like etc etc

01:31:06 ◼   ► and he's playing not only both of these people but also this like Greek chorus of explaining

01:31:11 ◼   ► the imagination and mind of how each people were feeling at this moment of like... and

01:31:19 ◼   ► And then he plays it again, but speaking both as the child, but also as the child's inner

01:31:28 ◼   ► monologue at that moment of being like, "He doesn't want to listen to me. Why does he

01:31:34 ◼   ► hate me?" And then plays this other way of like, if you did it with empathic listening,

01:31:41 ◼   ► how it would improve the situation to the point where the kid who doesn't want to go

01:31:45 ◼   ► go to school because he's talking about like there's a friend of his or like a friend of

01:31:50 ◼   ► a family who's become a mechanic and they've done well and they didn't go to school. Why

01:31:53 ◼   ► don't I do that? This is like how the first two examples of this goes and it's like being

01:31:58 ◼   ► a mechanic is ridiculous. You need to go and be a lawyer. I don't know why Covey hates

01:32:01 ◼   ► mechanics so much, but apparently he does.

01:32:03 ◼   ► He kind of. He's super weird.

01:32:06 ◼   ► Really hates mechanics. It's very strange. Almost as much as he hates television. Also

01:32:11 ◼   ► very strange. Like he's talking about like, "Oh, don't be a mechanic." And then it gets

01:32:16 ◼   ► to a point where the final way where the father is using empathic listening, the kid is explaining,

01:32:23 ◼   ► "Oh, but you know, I want to be a mechanic." And then the dad's like, "But does Joey have

01:32:28 ◼   ► such a great life?" And the kid's like, "I don't know," to the point where the kid also

01:32:32 ◼   ► hates mechanics, and he loves school. It's like, this isn't how this conversation would

01:32:36 ◼   ► go, it genuinely ends though with him saying, owning up to the fact that this is probably

01:32:43 ◼   ► not how this conversation would go. Like, that's how he finishes this, it's like a

01:32:47 ◼   ► 20 minute thing and he's like, I know, he's like, I have created this example and I know

01:32:51 ◼   ► maybe this isn't how it would go and there are a bunch of different ways that it could

01:32:54 ◼   ► go, but this is how empathic listening might help. Like, oh my god, this is so ridiculous

01:32:59 ◼   ► that he can't even finish it by owning, like, by like owning it, he has to own up to the

01:33:05 ◼   ► the fact that this is probably not how this conversation would play out. Like, why are

01:33:09 ◼   ► we doing this then? This was one of the most wild in the book. Like, I really, I'm like

01:33:16 ◼   ► listening to it and I just couldn't understand why he felt the requirement to do it in this

01:33:22 ◼   ► way.

01:33:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I remember now going through this and just being confused at the multiple, like,

01:33:28 ◼   ► I just, I don't understand what's happening here. Like, I'm just listening to this thing

01:33:32 ◼   ► and my brain's not fully paying attention.

01:33:34 ◼   ► And it's like, "Wait a minute. Is this the same story again?

01:33:37 ◼   ► Like, am I going senile or is he going senile?"

01:33:39 ◼   ► Like, I just remember this being like a weird, confusing mess.

01:33:43 ◼   ► It's like, "Is there some kind of art project happening in the middle of this book?"

01:33:45 ◼   ► Like, I don't get it.

01:33:47 ◼   ► [laughs]

01:33:48 ◼   ► Habit 6.

01:33:50 ◼   ► -Synergize. -Synergize.

01:33:52 ◼   ► Oh.

01:33:53 ◼   ► This is maximum crazy.

01:33:56 ◼   ► This is maximum crazy in the book.

01:33:58 ◼   ► This is where it goes off the rails in just an amazing way because here

01:34:03 ◼   ► Stephen Covey is trying to say like

01:34:06 ◼   ► Synergy is the result of all the things that we have talked about before and so it's like, you know

01:34:11 ◼   ► All these buzzwords like we're bringing them all back people like and they're all gonna be in a row and we're gonna talk about all

01:34:16 ◼   ► of them together and and this to me this chapter is

01:34:19 ◼   ► Maximum crazy that like his definitions of synergy his stories

01:34:26 ◼   ► There's one story at the end that I particularly like but but yeah this this one is this one is rough. I think there is

01:34:32 ◼   ► Not a single

01:34:35 ◼   ► Sentence of value in the entire chapter

01:34:37 ◼   ► So the idea of habit six is to combine the strengths of people through positive teamwork

01:34:43 ◼   ► So as to achieve goals that no one could have done alone. All right

01:34:46 ◼   ► It's not compromised by the way compromise is not synergy. No, no compromise is not synergy

01:34:51 ◼   ► Compromise is one plus one equals one and a half, Myke.

01:34:55 ◼   ► Okay, let me try and explain this. I don't know how I'm going to be able to.

01:34:58 ◼   ► So apparently synergy is when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

01:35:03 ◼   ► In synergy, you could get one plus one equals three, or as he says, one plus one equals 10,

01:35:10 ◼   ► or 10,000, or 50,000. I was like, what are you doing? Like, have you lost your mind?

01:35:16 ◼   ► Why are you saying these numbers? But compromising is not synergy. It is a lower form of win-win.

01:35:22 ◼   ► If you compromise, it's like one plus one equals 1.5, which to be honest still sounds pretty good

01:35:27 ◼   ► because it's, you know, it's like whatever. But one plus one equals 1.5, one. But synergizing is

01:35:33 ◼   ► one plus one equals three. Now, dear listener, if you do not understand this, that's fine because

01:35:38 ◼   ► I don't either. I don't know what the difference is and I've listened to the whole book.

01:35:43 ◼   ► Just to be clear, quote, "Synergy is the essence of principle-centered leadership.

01:35:48 ◼   ► It is the essence of principle-centered parenting.

01:35:50 ◼   ► It catalyzes, unifies, and unleashes the greatest powers within people.

01:35:54 ◼   ► All the habits we have covered us prepare us to create the miracle of synergy."

01:36:00 ◼   ► Which is just like algebra, new algebra rules.

01:36:03 ◼   ► And yeah, the chapter is amazing.

01:36:07 ◼   ► really obsessed with the idea of constantly referring to 1+1 equaling some other number.

01:36:14 ◼   ► This is his constant go-to with what synergy means in this chapter to one of my favorite

01:36:21 ◼   ► little stories here, which is it's almost like the checkmate meme on the internet,

01:36:27 ◼   ► like it's happening in real conversation where I don't know if you remember, but he's talking

01:36:31 ◼   ► to a guy who's like doubting the concept of synergy. So again, as with all of these stories,

01:36:38 ◼   ► it somehow quickly turns to marriage and family. Everything is marriage and family. But so someone

01:36:44 ◼   ► is doubting that this magic of synergy exists to Stephen Covey. Oh god, I just remembered it. Yes,

01:36:50 ◼   ► oh my god, this is so good. Yeah, right, and so he turns to the guy and so the book says like,

01:37:01 ◼   ► I looked at the two of them, so it's the guy and his wife.

01:37:03 ◼   ► Yeah, because this guy is having problems in their relationship, and for some reason,

01:37:09 ◼   ► so he meets this guy, obviously at the end of a conference,

01:37:11 ◼   ► and he invites Covey to go to lunch with him and his wife

01:37:15 ◼   ► so he can listen to the way that they communicate.

01:37:18 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:37:19 ◼   ► Right?

01:37:19 ◼   ► And this is also a thing that I don't have a whole lot of tolerance for,

01:37:23 ◼   ► it was like a lot of weird 1980s science about the concept of left versus right brain people.

01:37:28 ◼   ► I didn't wonder how you'd feel about that.

01:37:29 ◼   ► Yeah, he's like he's a really left-brain person and she's a really right-brain person and like this is a weird idea that still still infects

01:37:35 ◼   ► Educational pedagogy today and like all of the stuff that this is based on is non replicable and is nonsense

01:37:40 ◼   ► So it's like okay, whatever so but so Stephen Covey like professional psychologist PhD is like, oh these these are he's a library

01:37:47 ◼   ► like oh

01:37:47 ◼   ► these are these are two half-brained people living together like they're having a hard time talking and he says like

01:37:52 ◼   ► You guys need to be more synergistic and they're saying I don't understand what you mean by by synergy

01:37:57 ◼   ► And so, again, resolution to fix this guy's marriage. Here's how it goes. Stephen Covey says

01:38:03 ◼   ► "Do you have any children?" I asked. "Yes, two."

01:38:07 ◼   ► "Really?" I asked incredulously, which feels a bit presumptuous there.

01:38:12 ◼   ► I know!

01:38:14 ◼   ► And then so Stephen Covey says

01:38:16 ◼   ► "How did you do it?" and they said "What do you mean, how did we do it?" "You were synergistic,"

01:38:23 ◼   ► I said, "1+1 usually equals 2, but you made 1+1=4. Now that's synergy.

01:38:30 ◼   ► The whole is greater than the sum of the parts." And it's like...

01:38:33 ◼   ► You're just counting things? Like it's so weird.

01:38:38 ◼   ► Yeah, this is not... like these people, they can't communicate. They struggle to communicate.

01:38:42 ◼   ► They seem to kind of not really like each other very much anymore.

01:38:45 ◼   ► But for some reason you fixed it by saying they had kids 10 years ago? Like I don't understand

01:38:50 ◼   ► the solution.

01:38:53 ◼   ► Yeah, so this is just maximum crazy in this chapter.

01:38:57 ◼   ► Like, it doesn't make any sense.

01:38:58 ◼   ► It's like, in his mind, people can only have children if they're in a healthy, functional relationship.

01:39:04 ◼   ► Yeah, that is a good way to put it.

01:39:06 ◼   ► Like, he's like, "But your children are here!"

01:39:08 ◼   ► Like, "I don't understand, why do you have a problem?

01:39:11 ◼   ► Don't you understand that if you have children, that shows that you're great together?"

01:39:15 ◼   ► It's like, I don't know, man. Even from your telling of this story,

01:39:17 ◼   ► it sounds like maybe they should get divorced, like, for the benefit of the children?

01:39:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:39:21 ◼   ► - Oh, it's so bad. - But I don't know

01:39:24 ◼   ► if he can do minuses, like can he do one minus one

01:39:27 ◼   ► equals negative four?

01:39:28 ◼   ► Like is that what would happen to the family?

01:39:30 ◼   ► - It would still be a plus, like somehow in his mind,

01:39:33 ◼   ► one minus one would be two million or something.

01:39:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's-- - Covey hates math,

01:39:38 ◼   ► like he hates TV.

01:39:39 ◼   ► At some point goes into this rant,

01:39:42 ◼   ► and I don't know where exactly it is.

01:39:45 ◼   ► He is talking about how TV is mostly bad for us

01:39:49 ◼   ► and there are some educational shows that are good

01:39:51 ◼   ► and we watch 40 hours a week of TV somehow,

01:39:56 ◼   ► and that in his household, they watch seven hours a week,

01:40:00 ◼   ► and everybody is happy with that.

01:40:02 ◼   ► Like, I'm not really sure why he gets into this,

01:40:06 ◼   ► but like, he seems to feel that like,

01:40:08 ◼   ► TV is a plague on society.

01:40:10 ◼   ► It's very strange.

01:40:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, there are a bunch of just

01:40:15 ◼   ► digs out of nowhere at TV.

01:40:17 ◼   ► - Oh, I actually think it is in Habit 7,

01:40:19 ◼   ► which is called Sharpen the Source.

01:40:21 ◼   ► So habit seven is about the continued improvement

01:40:25 ◼   ► of the other habits.

01:40:26 ◼   ► So it is taking everything that you have,

01:40:28 ◼   ► making and continuing over your life

01:40:31 ◼   ► to build and renew resources, energy,

01:40:33 ◼   ► and improve your health to create a sustainable,

01:40:35 ◼   ► long-term, effective lifestyle.

01:40:37 ◼   ► And you have to be able to sharpen the saw

01:40:39 ◼   ► and make your life good so you can live

01:40:42 ◼   ► the rest of the habits and it brings it all together.

01:40:44 ◼   ► And this is broken down into three major parts,

01:40:46 ◼   ► which is physical renewal, which is exercise.

01:40:49 ◼   ► something kind of referred to as good service,

01:40:51 ◼   ► which can be considered as prayer or meditation

01:40:54 ◼   ► or helping in your community,

01:40:56 ◼   ► and mental renewal, which is reading.

01:40:58 ◼   ► This is where he talks about the problem of TV

01:41:00 ◼   ► because he believes that people

01:41:02 ◼   ► should be reading all the time.

01:41:03 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, yeah.

01:41:04 ◼   ► It's a big push for reading on there.

01:41:06 ◼   ► Yeah. (laughs)

01:41:08 ◼   ► - I had nothing about this one.

01:41:09 ◼   ► This one, it was just,

01:41:10 ◼   ► 'cause by this point, the technical debt that he has created

01:41:14 ◼   ► with the phrases and the buzzwords is almost monumental.

01:41:19 ◼   ► Like, there was a point in this book where it's like,

01:41:21 ◼   ► you just said 50 words and I think you created 15 of them.

01:41:25 ◼   ► Like, I don't understand what you're talking about anymore

01:41:29 ◼   ► because interdependence and interdependence,

01:41:33 ◼   ► you use both of them and I sometimes don't know

01:41:36 ◼   ► which one you're talking about.

01:41:37 ◼   ► It's too bogged down at this point

01:41:41 ◼   ► and he's trying to sum up too many things

01:41:44 ◼   ► that he's created.

01:41:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, it doesn't work anymore.

01:41:48 ◼   ► It's like TLDR, go to the gym and take care of your mind.

01:41:53 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, that's the end of it

01:41:56 ◼   ► with no real practical advice on anything.

01:42:00 ◼   ► And I think there's actually a very interesting question

01:42:03 ◼   ► around this idea, which it doesn't touch at all,

01:42:06 ◼   ► but it's like you could have a much more

01:42:08 ◼   ► interesting conversation around this

01:42:09 ◼   ► because I feel like this is a thing in the modern world,

01:42:12 ◼   ► which is the concept of burnout,

01:42:14 ◼   ► Like people never taking time to have breaks or to regenerate intellectual capital or build

01:42:22 ◼   ► themselves back up.

01:42:26 ◼   ► There could be something interesting here about constantly working is depleting a resource

01:42:31 ◼   ► and you have to be aware of rebuilding that resource in time's off.

01:42:35 ◼   ► But it's like there's no discussion of that.

01:42:38 ◼   ► It's just continually additive.

01:42:41 ◼   ► you're adding all of these habits and all of these activities into your life and then

01:42:45 ◼   ► like, and now on top of it, like we're going to add all of this community service, like,

01:42:49 ◼   ► and you're also going to be reading and you're going to be going to the gym. And it just,

01:42:52 ◼   ► at this point, it almost feels like overwhelming the sheer number of things that a person would

01:42:57 ◼   ► have to do to maintain all of this. So yeah, it's, there could be a good idea here, but

01:43:03 ◼   ► this, this chapter is like, it is at the end and you just, you feel like, I can't, I can't

01:43:08 ◼   ► go on. Please, please just please make it end. Please make it end.

01:43:12 ◼   ► And that is it. That's the seven habits. I maintain, I want to maintain that I did find

01:43:18 ◼   ► use in this book and I get excited to talk about the bad things because it's funny, right,

01:43:22 ◼   ► to talk about the terrible things with you. But I do think there are some interesting

01:43:26 ◼   ► things in this book that I am going to take with me. You know, the idea of thinking about

01:43:31 ◼   ► being proactive and understanding the language that I use and how it affects things. Thinking

01:43:36 ◼   ► about how I want to be remembered, thinking about trying to maybe create a personal mission

01:43:41 ◼   ► statement and what that might look like as a way to sum up how I want my life to go before

01:43:45 ◼   ► me, thinking about things that are important and urgent and how I delegate and the emotional

01:43:50 ◼   ► bank account.

01:43:51 ◼   ► Like these are things that I find genuinely thought-provoking in a way that a lot of these

01:43:56 ◼   ► business books don't have the ability to make me think about so many things that this one

01:44:01 ◼   ► has done.

01:44:02 ◼   ► So having read this book, I can see why it had been so popular because there are things

01:44:11 ◼   ► in here that are interesting 30 years later to me.

01:44:16 ◼   ► This book is nearly 30 years old and I think that there is some genuinely interesting stuff

01:44:22 ◼   ► in this book.

01:44:24 ◼   ► But there is also, as with all of these books, a lot of nonsense.

01:44:29 ◼   ► Just real nonsense.

01:44:32 ◼   ► And unfortunately these two ideas are not really, these two things are not really mixed

01:44:37 ◼   ► together.

01:44:38 ◼   ► It's like the first half is good and the second half is crazy.

01:44:42 ◼   ► Which is a shame.

01:44:43 ◼   ► They didn't mix it up.

01:44:44 ◼   ► So it kind of lost me.

01:44:45 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:44:46 ◼   ► I have to hard not recommend this book to anybody.

01:44:51 ◼   ► I just think for anybody who is trying to improve their life, it's just, it's too much

01:44:57 ◼   ► to slog through.

01:44:59 ◼   ► It's too incoherent and while this is the foundation of very many books in this genre,

01:45:08 ◼   ► I think you're probably better off picking up something that is written that is more

01:45:12 ◼   ► modern which may be ripping off the ideas of this book but doing it in a more coherent

01:45:18 ◼   ► and constructive manner.

01:45:21 ◼   ► I cannot recommend this one because the crazy is just too much and the book is so long.

01:45:27 ◼   ► such a big ask to have somebody go through with it.

01:45:31 ◼   ► I just, I can never imagine a situation in which I would recommend to anybody to read this book.

01:45:35 ◼   ► Like, again, I haven't read anything further.

01:45:38 ◼   ► There are more books in this idea, like created by the Covey company, that could be better, right?

01:45:45 ◼   ► Like they could be more updated.

01:45:46 ◼   ► They could be more abbreviated, which might be better.

01:45:49 ◼   ► But yeah, I agree that like, I say there are interesting things here.

01:45:54 ◼   ► I recommend trying to find something that builds upon some of the habits, you know,

01:45:58 ◼   ► maybe finding out a bit about them.

01:46:00 ◼   ► Honestly, you've probably got a lot of what you need from us talking about it for you

01:46:05 ◼   ► to decide if you think any of these things are interesting to you and then maybe try

01:46:08 ◼   ► and find things that are offshoots of it, maybe just focusing on some of the specific

01:46:12 ◼   ► habits because it is really, really long and there is a lot of it that really doesn't

01:46:18 ◼   ► to be there and that with all of these books, it is what makes it hard that.

01:46:23 ◼   ► They are filling pages,

01:46:26 ◼   ► a lot of it is just genuinely pages need to be filled and they're filling them.

01:46:30 ◼   ► And you can feel that there are times when you can just really feel like

01:46:34 ◼   ► he's hitting a word count for this chapter, because there's just stuff

01:46:38 ◼   ► like, I don't know why you're talking about this anymore.

01:46:40 ◼   ► So there is a lot of that.

01:46:42 ◼   ► I don't think he's hitting a word count.

01:46:43 ◼   ► This to me, again, it just it just reads as like a Markov chain

01:46:47 ◼   ► generated that people just didn't didn't shut off soon enough right and it's like

01:46:50 ◼   ► oh we got a thousand pages right of this thing and ship it right like whatever

01:46:56 ◼   ► it because it doesn't matter because it's like it's it's fractally self

01:46:59 ◼   ► similar at a large scale and a small scale like it's it's all the same

01:47:02 ◼   ► throughout the whole thing it doesn't matter just ship a thousand pages of it

01:47:05 ◼   ► so yeah there are books where I definitely feel like oh I can see how

01:47:09 ◼   ► you turned your interesting article into a paperback book that you're now going

01:47:12 ◼   ► to sell and there's like then you can feel like okay you're obviously just

01:47:15 ◼   ► padding here. But this I think we're getting pure Covey here. I think there was no point

01:47:22 ◼   ► where he was like, "Mmm, I need to hit that word count." I feel like he had this book

01:47:25 ◼   ► flow through him and it came out into the world. Myke, do you want to close out our

01:47:31 ◼   ► discussion on the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People with the music that was played in the

01:47:38 ◼   ► Seven Habits of Highly Effective People?

01:47:40 ◼   ► I think so because we had to listen to it a lot, so I think our listeners should have

01:47:46 ◼   ► to get it just at least once just so they can understand the sacrifice that we made

01:47:51 ◼   ► for them.

01:47:52 ◼   ► So yes, here is the music which punctuated almost every 10 minutes it felt like of the

01:47:58 ◼   ► The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.

01:48:05 ◼   ► So where are you?

01:48:09 ◼   ► Where are you?

01:48:13 ◼   ► Where are you?

01:48:15 ◼   ► Where are you?

01:48:17 ◼   ► [Music]

01:48:21 ◼   ► [BLANK_AUDIO]