57: Bucketful of Internet


00:00:00   I'm delivery number 46 Grey and the courier is currently on delivery number 41 and they're

00:00:05   about 15 minutes away.

00:00:07   Delivery of what?

00:00:08   Uh, I'm getting some new Apple products today like an Apple Watch is on the way and an Apple

00:00:13   TV is on the way.

00:00:15   Today is the day so during today's show I'm gonna be taking receipt of some new stuff

00:00:20   so you'll probably lose me for a while you know.

00:00:22   It's like just go and press the buttons on my new toys.

00:00:28   You lucky jerk. You got your orders in ahead of me.

00:00:31   Yep.

00:00:32   I am. Let me just look it up really quickly. According

00:00:34   to my app for my Apple Watch, I am delivery number 10,444th, I presume, because it's not

00:00:42   coming until October.

00:00:45   Well the early bird catches the pre-orders or something.

00:00:49   I guess so. I guess so.

00:00:51   So you bought the Apple Watch of LTE, huh? Is this going to be part of the multi-multi-watch

00:00:57   lifestyle how many watches are you gonna keep around when a third one is your life?

00:01:00   what do you mean multi- like I already live the multi watch lifestyle I have two

00:01:04   watches that's two so then is there a third gonna join or like what happens

00:01:08   you gonna replace the other one? that's crazy that doesn't make any sense

00:01:12   oh I just thought if you bought two LTE watches for yourself? no I have bought

00:01:16   one LTE watch for myself right right cuz it'd be crazy to buy two right? it would

00:01:21   be crazy to buy two right at the start. Yeah. That would...

00:01:25   [Laughter]

00:01:26   Nice qualification there.

00:01:29   Well I don't yet know how useful the LTE watch is or exactly how it's going to fit into my

00:01:34   life or how it's going to work with my various habits.

00:01:36   Are you even on the correct network for this?

00:01:40   I have not investigated that. I didn't know that I needed to look into networks.

00:01:44   If you're not on EE in the UK then you're out of luck my friend.

00:01:48   Oh really? Hmm.

00:01:49   I just delivered some horrifying news to you.

00:01:53   Well, maybe it's a good thing then that my delivery is not until number 10,000 or something.

00:01:57   I'm currently on 3, is my network provider of choice.

00:02:01   Then it's time for you to switch network if you want to use an LTE Apple Watch.

00:02:05   No, but surely the networks are going to update with this.

00:02:09   Surely, yeah. It'll only be a couple of days, I'm sure, until all of the other networks come on board.

00:02:13   Oh, Myke.

00:02:17   expecting to get this piece of news from you.

00:02:19   It never even occurred to me that this might be limited to different carriers.

00:02:24   Yep, it is. It is. Just one in the UK. Just one for now.

00:02:28   So, you've got some work to do, my friend.

00:02:31   I've got some life rearranging to do.

00:02:34   Yep. I actually don't think it's at all possible to even get it to work.

00:02:39   It has to be the carrier that you're on. Otherwise you've got no choice.

00:02:44   The one thing that's frustrating me though, again I don't know if you know this, it doesn't

00:02:47   roam.

00:02:48   You can't roam.

00:02:49   Huh, I'm not surprised by that.

00:02:51   I didn't think about that, but I'm not surprised that at the start there's no roaming with

00:02:54   the LTE watch.

00:02:55   It's definitely version one.

00:02:56   I mean, and also like all of the earlier reviews there's a bunch of problems with it, but apparently

00:03:00   there's some fixes on the way.

00:03:01   But I'm waiting to see.

00:03:02   Like, I'm going to reserve my own judgement until I've actually had time to play around

00:03:05   with it.

00:03:06   Which by the time this episode comes out, I probably will have played around with it,

00:03:10   and will have spoken about it on my various technology-focused podcasts, of which I will

00:03:14   include links in the show notes, Gray. Yes, you're going to be wearing the watch

00:03:17   while we're doing this show and probably simultaneously recording another one of

00:03:22   your shows to give your first impressions. Yeah, every time you're

00:03:24   talking I'm talking to somebody else. Yeah, that's how that works. That's how

00:03:28   Myke gets all these podcasts done. CT does simul podcasting. It's very intense

00:03:33   but that's how you do 20 shows at once. It's the only way. It is the only

00:03:37   way to do it and maintain work-life balance. You have to double it. It's like

00:03:41   two times work and then life balance. That's how you do it.

00:03:45   I don't think that formula comes out the way you think it comes out, but okay.

00:03:48   Sure, sure, sure. Don't worry about it. It's in practice it works. Just on paper it seems

00:03:53   a bit tricky. Let's come back to that. I want to know what you think about the iPhone 10,

00:03:57   but let's come back to that a little bit later on so we can give some respite to the people

00:04:02   that don't care about these types of things. Because there has been some huge news. There's

00:04:06   been a rift. There was a, there was a, I could feel a change in the force, Gray.

00:04:11   Oh yeah? As you uploaded a YouTube video.

00:04:14   Oh okay, well now that's, that's, you're being a little dramatic there. Do Q&A videos really

00:04:19   count? I feel like they count for half a video. Well okay, it was like it was a minor rift,

00:04:24   it was a minor disturbance in the force as you uploaded a semi-YouTube video I guess.

00:04:31   Mm-hmm. But it still was one,

00:04:32   it still had animations in it, it still had fun parts of it, it still took work,

00:04:36   I'm assuming, right?

00:04:38   - Yeah, it does take work. - But there is a video,

00:04:39   there is a, you've come back.

00:04:40   How does it feel to make your triumphant return to YouTube?

00:04:45   - Boy, you're really, you're really enjoying this,

00:04:47   aren't you?

00:04:48   - Look, what I enjoy most is the comments

00:04:51   that I see so often of--

00:04:54   - Yes, I know these tickle you.

00:04:56   - Podcast to CGP Grey,

00:04:58   who sometimes uploads YouTube videos.

00:05:00   - Do you know that, I mean,

00:05:03   I have no say in this kind of thing,

00:05:04   but the consensus on my Wikipedia page

00:05:07   was to reverse the order in which my professions are listed.

00:05:11   - I mean, all you can do is just look at the facts.

00:05:15   I mean, I'm not one to talk, right?

00:05:16   Because I have not uploaded anything

00:05:19   to my YouTube channel for a while.

00:05:20   There is a good reason for that, which we'll get into later.

00:05:22   Like I just have a ton of footage just sitting on my iPhone

00:05:25   that I haven't been able to do anything with

00:05:27   'cause I've been working on some other stuff.

00:05:29   But I'm pleased to see that you've made your return.

00:05:34   I'm glad that you're pleased that I've made a return.

00:05:38   I always figure it's not for me to determine

00:05:40   how people want to describe what it is that I do,

00:05:42   and I'll let them describe it however they want.

00:05:45   But I do too think it's funny when people list,

00:05:48   essentially in reverse order, all the things that I do.

00:05:51   Those are always entertaining comments.

00:05:54   - I think it makes sense though,

00:05:55   'cause you have two mostly regular shows,

00:05:58   like two mostly regular podcasts in any YouTube channel,

00:06:01   where you post stuff on a incredibly sporadic basis.

00:06:06   - I'm not arguing with the Wikipedia here.

00:06:08   I just think it's funny that someone went in and changed it.

00:06:10   - I am looking at CGP Grey, podcaster

00:06:12   and educational YouTuber.

00:06:13   That's wonderful.

00:06:16   That is wonderful.

00:06:17   - I'm glad you like it.

00:06:19   - Did you get back into the swing of things okay?

00:06:21   - Yeah, yeah, it was fine.

00:06:23   Okay, so this is one of these things that is,

00:06:28   It's a bit weird to have a podcast

00:06:32   where you sort of talk about your working life in public

00:06:35   because sometimes there are things

00:06:38   that you kind of can't talk about.

00:06:40   And people know I always, whenever I can,

00:06:44   I try to take time off for the summer

00:06:45   because it is the eternal teacher within me

00:06:47   who feels like summertime,

00:06:50   nobody should work during the summertime.

00:06:52   But this past summer, just for various things

00:06:54   that aren't necessarily really interesting

00:06:56   to talk about on the show,

00:06:57   I was really busy with non-public work stuff, so the YouTube channel was essentially on pause for a couple of months.

00:07:04   And that's part of what the delay was.

00:07:07   But, you know, the Q&A video, people seem to like it, the reception seems to be good.

00:07:11   I'm never quite sure with the Q&A videos, I always feel like since they're a little bit of a different kind of video,

00:07:17   I don't know how they're going to be received.

00:07:19   But yeah, I'm always happy to post stuff on the YouTube channel.

00:07:22   I genuinely feel better when I do that kind of thing.

00:07:26   That's the sort of work that my brain treats as

00:07:30   the realest, most countingest of work that I do.

00:07:34   It's like, "Oh, you've uploaded a YouTube video.

00:07:36   "That's real work."

00:07:38   Like, "Oh, you put out a bunch of podcasts this month."

00:07:40   It's like, "Ah, you were just talking to people."

00:07:41   Like, that's not real work,

00:07:43   is how my brain sort of treats it.

00:07:45   Okay, okay, you keep treating it like that.

00:07:47   That's fine.

00:07:48   You keep treating it like no work.

00:07:50   If that helps you to continue to do these things, then it's fine by me.

00:07:53   I'm not saying that it helps me to continue. I'm just simply saying that's how my brain treats it.

00:07:59   Yeah.

00:07:59   And it's just like, you can't argue with brains, you know, they're going to do what they do.

00:08:04   And like, I would genuinely try to argue with my brain and be like, you know,

00:08:07   podcasting is real work too. And my brain just kind of shrugs at that.

00:08:11   It's like, yeah, I guess whatever. And it looks away.

00:08:14   Whatever, lazy boy.

00:08:15   Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

00:08:17   Are you back into the swing though? Like are you working on meaty videos?

00:08:22   Yeah, yeah.

00:08:23   What are they, the historical science videos that you make?

00:08:27   That's right, historical science videos.

00:08:30   Yeah, we actually, we didn't quite get into it last time,

00:08:34   but we sort of touched on like our sleep schedules being all messed up,

00:08:37   and you'll have to tell me about that sleep survey later, but...

00:08:40   Gosh, yeah, I will.

00:08:42   Just still didn't really understand what was occurring with that.

00:08:45   But anyway, we were talking then about trying to have a regular sleep schedule and how important

00:08:55   it is. And it is one of these things that I did have this really exhausting summer. And as I was

00:09:01   mentioning last time, I just felt like I could not get back into the regular flow of things. And so I

00:09:07   did end up taking a great occasion to really buckle down and be like, "Okay, brain, you and me, we're

00:09:15   gonna get back into the schedule of real work that's really going to happen and we're going

00:09:21   to be getting up at 5.30 and you're not gonna like any of it, but we're gonna do this."

00:09:27   And it's interesting, it was really quite brutal because my brain was bucking very hard

00:09:34   against this, but I did it and it was important to do and like that's part of the reason the

00:09:38   Q&A video came up and there's some other things in the work. It is interesting trying to do

00:09:43   the thing where you force yourself back into a pattern.

00:09:49   So anyway, that's something that I was up to, and I've been now regularly getting up,

00:09:56   you know, very early in the morning, which again is a thing that really is the number

00:10:01   one contributing factor to how do I feel about how my working life is going, and how productive

00:10:06   do I feel that I am on any particular day.

00:10:08   So I'm pretty happy about that.

00:10:09   Well I'm pleased that you were able to somehow get it back, right?

00:10:14   My thing was just I came back to work with a messed up schedule at one of the most important

00:10:19   parts of my working year so I was forced into a...

00:10:26   My sleep cycle wasn't forced at all.

00:10:28   It was still just a disaster for most of the last few weeks but there's not really been

00:10:34   much choice.

00:10:35   I just have to kind of just live with it.

00:10:37   It also didn't help that like the way in which the work occurs during this period of time

00:10:44   meant that there was some times where I was going to bed at 2.30 because I had no choice.

00:10:49   You mean because you were recording with somebody on the West Coast and that was the time they

00:10:53   were available?

00:10:54   Exactly, right?

00:10:55   Like there's nothing I can do about that and so that really didn't help.

00:10:59   So like even because there was a lot of stuff contributing to me staying up later even if

00:11:04   I didn't want to.

00:11:05   So basically like I'm still in a real bad way with sleep right now, but it's not jet

00:11:10   lag anymore.

00:11:11   Like I've just got a really screwed up schedule because I haven't done a very good job of

00:11:17   managing it and maybe for the first time in my life I have truly recognised the effect

00:11:23   of bad sleep on me.

00:11:26   I feel like maybe for the first time I've really been able to be like "oh I feel really

00:11:30   bad today".

00:11:32   I think it might be because I haven't been sleeping.

00:11:34   And this is maybe the first time

00:11:37   this has ever really happened.

00:11:38   And I think it's because

00:11:39   this has been the biggest shock to my system

00:11:43   with the amount of time that I spent in another time zone

00:11:47   and then not being able to get into a position

00:11:50   where I was able to change it,

00:11:52   even though my life around me has dictated

00:11:55   that I had to change.

00:11:58   So I've been having errands to run

00:12:01   or meetings or things that were happening

00:12:02   in the morning in England,

00:12:04   but everything else was happening in the evening in the US.

00:12:10   - Okay, so you had a big stretch of time in between.

00:12:13   - So I was having to cater to all of it

00:12:16   in a way that was also being quite badly jet-lagged.

00:12:20   It was all just happening.

00:12:24   And this is maybe the first time where I've been like,

00:12:27   I have not felt great the last couple of weeks.

00:12:30   And I've been getting colds and stuff like that happening here and there, right?

00:12:36   Like it keeps coming and going and it's like, "Mmm, yeah, I need to sleep more."

00:12:43   Since you happen to have had this schedule where there's two blocks of working time that

00:12:47   are separated by a great distance during the day, have you ever tried naps, Myke?

00:12:52   I hate naps.

00:12:53   Oh, I hate them.

00:12:56   I used to be this guy.

00:12:58   And I used to have like a moral rejection of naps.

00:13:03   It was like, "Oh, naps. That's for lazy people and cats."

00:13:07   You know, like a grown man is not going to lie down and take a little nap.

00:13:11   But it is a thing that I have tried and I feel like the most beautiful and perfect sleep cycle for me,

00:13:19   but that is yet also the most fragile,

00:13:21   is the waking up early in the morning and then taking a very brief

00:13:25   midday nap and kind of breaking the day into

00:13:29   two phases. It's like when I can get into that groove

00:13:34   it's like everything is right in the world.

00:13:37   And I used to be really opposed to naps and

00:13:39   if you're really opposed to them, like I think you should just give it a try.

00:13:43   Like a very short nap, like just 20 minutes, maybe 30 minutes, you know, not an hour,

00:13:48   but it really is very helpful.

00:13:51   - I wanna give you, I've just written this down

00:13:54   on the notebook that I have in front of me.

00:13:57   I have two points here about naps.

00:14:00   - Okay.

00:14:00   - Point number one, every time I've ever taken a nap,

00:14:04   whether purposely or accidentally, mostly accidentally,

00:14:07   I wake up and I don't know where I am,

00:14:10   I don't know what day it is, I don't know what time it is,

00:14:13   and I just feel atrocious.

00:14:15   - Yeah, no, accidental naps are awful,

00:14:18   And I'm with you there 100% of the time.

00:14:20   If you wake up from an accidental nap,

00:14:22   it's that feeling of like,

00:14:25   (gasps)

00:14:26   like, where am I?

00:14:28   Like, what happened?

00:14:29   Was I suffocating to death?

00:14:31   And then you have that horrific sleep inertia

00:14:35   where it's like, oh, I'm sitting up from the couch,

00:14:38   but it feels like only my soul has sat up

00:14:41   and my body is still lying on the couch.

00:14:43   Yeah, it's terrible.

00:14:44   - Yeah, that sound that you made

00:14:46   is the perfect way of describing the feeling.

00:14:49   - Yeah, that is also the alarm went off

00:14:52   when I was in the middle of a dream,

00:14:54   waking up sound, right?

00:14:56   This is like getting up early in the morning.

00:14:58   I was like, (gasps)

00:14:59   like I can't, I just need air.

00:15:02   Like I'm drowning, but actually I was just asleep.

00:15:06   - The second part is an issue that I have

00:15:09   about planning into my day

00:15:12   what I consider to be wastes of time

00:15:15   and how I feel about those.

00:15:18   I waste time every day procrastinating,

00:15:21   like every human being, right?

00:15:22   Like I waste time.

00:15:24   - Of course.

00:15:25   - But if I plan into my day a period of time

00:15:28   where I won't be working,

00:15:29   I get very anxious about that if I'm busy.

00:15:32   This is my own problem that I need to take steps

00:15:37   to deal with and it's something that I think about.

00:15:39   But it's like if I schedule a lunch with a friend

00:15:42   whilst I'm also busy or I have a lunch with a friend

00:15:45   booked in and then my week goes pear-shaped and I end up with a bunch of

00:15:50   tasks that need to be completed, I feel really anxious about that. So the

00:15:54   idea of having naps, like planning to take a nap, I don't know, I feel like I

00:15:59   would, I feel like I would be very uncomfortable about like, oh I'm just

00:16:03   gonna go to sleep for an hour, like no, I don't know.

00:16:06   Yeah, well again, don't go to sleep for an hour, that's terrible, that's a bad idea.

00:16:10   Well what are we talking here?

00:16:12   Again, 20-30 minutes. That's all you need here.

00:16:15   And also, here's the trick with the 20-30 minute nap.

00:16:19   Is you shouldn't really be expecting to go into full sleep.

00:16:25   When you get into this routine,

00:16:27   you're not really sleeping.

00:16:30   What you're doing is you're going into a kind of low power mode for a little bit.

00:16:35   That's what's occurring.

00:16:38   and it makes it easier to pull out of without feeling like you're drowning and you're dying.

00:16:44   Don't do the hour thing. You're always going to feel terrible with an hour of sleep.

00:16:48   That's a bad idea.

00:16:49   Because it always takes me a long time to go to sleep. Always.

00:16:52   Yeah, but this is it. Don't think about it like, "I'm going to bed in the middle of the day."

00:16:58   Think about it more, "I'm closing my eyes for 25 minutes."

00:17:02   And that's it. That's all you have to do. Just close your eyes for 25 minutes,

00:17:07   and that is the minimum that needs to occur.

00:17:10   And like I said, in my experience,

00:17:14   this is a fragile thing, even in my life,

00:17:19   which I try to keep as relatively unscheduled as possible.

00:17:23   Like stuff comes up that'll always make it inconvenient

00:17:26   to just go to sleep for a little bit

00:17:28   in the middle of the day.

00:17:29   But when that works, like it works really great.

00:17:33   And if you know you're going to have to be up later,

00:17:37   It's it's vital like one of one of my top

00:17:40   Conference survival tips like I was doing a bunch of conferences over the summer is

00:17:45   You have to go back to the hotel and

00:17:49   Take a nap at some point in the afternoon and and like that that is for me

00:17:55   Conference survival tip number one like if you you do not do this you will

00:18:00   Severely regret it later in the day well

00:18:04   but see then the thing is I know that's gone wrong for you. I've been in situations where

00:18:11   I said to you "Where were you yesterday?" and you said to me "I took a nap and didn't

00:18:16   wake up."

00:18:17   I have no memory of when this is. I think you're like making up a story so that you

00:18:22   don't have to take a nap.

00:18:23   No, this is true. I'm not a nine-year-old. No one's putting me down, right? We're good.

00:18:30   I remember it was somewhere it was either all or was that AWDC or something

00:18:35   I remember saying to you, where did you go? And you were like, oh well

00:18:38   I went to take a nap and then I woke up. Oh, I know what you're talking about

00:18:43   I went upstairs in the evening and just fell asleep on my bed because I was exhausted and slept through the whole night

00:18:49   Yeah, that was a WWDC. That was the first WWDC was I thought like oh, I'm gonna come back downstairs

00:18:55   I'm just gonna go upstairs for a little while

00:18:57   but this is actually my brain was tricking me because I was really tired from the time changes.

00:19:00   But that was not a "I'm lying down to take a nap" thing.

00:19:04   That was, it was like nine o'clock at night already.

00:19:06   Which by my measure is a reasonable time for everyone to be winding down the night.

00:19:11   But it seems that for most people this is when they think the evening begins.

00:19:15   Just kicking off.

00:19:16   Yeah, which I find very frustrating.

00:19:18   Are you sitting in front of your computer right now?

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00:21:06   I would suggest that you try the nap thing.

00:21:09   Just try it for a little while.

00:21:10   And I also want to make a suggestion out there

00:21:13   for you and for the listeners is to reframe

00:21:18   sleep as part of the working cycle.

00:21:22   To not necessarily think of it in the way that you're thinking of it like

00:21:26   "Oh, I'm planning in this period of time where I'm doing nothing."

00:21:29   I think it's important to reframe this as a necessary part

00:21:34   of work. And that is part of the reason why I specifically took time in my

00:21:39   schedule to say like the number one thing that I'm going to try to fix

00:21:42   is my sleep schedule.

00:21:44   And if I have to mess up the rest of everything

00:21:48   that I'm working on, like I don't care

00:21:50   because this is like the ground base level.

00:21:54   If this isn't fixed, almost nothing else matters.

00:21:59   So I think there should be a reframing in your mind

00:22:02   of sleep as a part of work.

00:22:05   - This feels like a long term project, honestly.

00:22:08   Like if this is gonna be a thing that I'm able to do.

00:22:11   'cause right now I'm listening to you

00:22:13   and I'm like, I'm not gonna nap.

00:22:14   This might have to be a real long-term thing.

00:22:18   I just, I don't know, maybe I need to feel these effects

00:22:23   again, right, so this is the first time

00:22:25   it's ever happened to me and there's still a part

00:22:27   of my mind where it's like, these were really

00:22:29   like extenuating circumstances, but there is also

00:22:33   a possibility that as I am approaching my 30th year

00:22:36   that this is how I'm gonna be now, right,

00:22:39   that like every time I come back from a trip,

00:22:41   I'm gonna feel like this.

00:22:43   So I need to see if that's gonna be a thing that occurs

00:22:46   as I take more trips throughout the rest of the year,

00:22:48   then I'll maybe consider napping.

00:22:50   But right now I'm clutching onto anything

00:22:52   that still makes me feel like I'm in my 20s.

00:22:54   So not taking naps is one of those things.

00:22:58   - I wasn't going to bring it up, Myke,

00:23:00   but of course, like, yes, this is one of these things

00:23:06   that as, not you, but as one ages, one finds

00:23:11   that they need to focus on some things

00:23:14   in a different way than they used to.

00:23:17   - Well look, I'm not an old man, right?

00:23:19   - I did not say that you were.

00:23:21   - No, I know that, right?

00:23:22   And I know that there's gonna be many people

00:23:24   that hear me say as I'm approaching my 30s

00:23:26   and they start rolling their eyes.

00:23:27   But over the last couple of years,

00:23:29   there have been a few things in my life

00:23:31   that I have felt change,

00:23:33   and I know it's because I'm getting older.

00:23:36   - Can you give me an example of a thing

00:23:37   that you have noticed as you've gotten older

00:23:39   that has changed?

00:23:40   Are you able to drink as hard as you used to, Myke?

00:23:43   - I would, say I've never really been a hard drinker.

00:23:47   - Hmm.

00:23:48   - But what I have noticed is if I have any alcohol,

00:23:52   I can tell the next day.

00:23:55   Like if somebody was to sneak alcohol into a beverage,

00:24:00   right, like I would know the next day

00:24:02   because I would feel like that they poisoned me.

00:24:05   - Technically I think they had.

00:24:06   - Exactly, well yeah, yeah okay.

00:24:08   Yeah, technically they did.

00:24:09   But yeah, I would say that I feel it now

00:24:14   in a way that I never did before.

00:24:16   Like any amount of alcohol,

00:24:18   something like I always get a bad hangover

00:24:20   or I feel sick or anything like that.

00:24:22   Just my body knows.

00:24:25   That is probably the easiest one

00:24:27   that I have felt is like, yeah okay.

00:24:31   I feel like this is probably a consequence of me becoming older.

00:24:35   There's sort of two things in this conversation.

00:24:37   One of which is I do think that

00:24:39   you do have to be aware that things change over time.

00:24:44   And I think you are wandering into the valley that many of us wander into,

00:24:50   which is recognizing you have to be protective of sleep.

00:24:54   And I always found myself very sensitive to changes in sleep

00:24:59   and I think that that is just cranking up as time goes on.

00:25:04   And then there's the other thing of just like being aware

00:25:06   of your own working habits changing over time.

00:25:10   So something I was really interested in was

00:25:14   with this last episode of trying to fix

00:25:16   my own sleep schedule is,

00:25:19   like I've always been very naturally a morning person

00:25:22   and I was just having such a hard time booting back

00:25:25   into that, that there is a question in my mind

00:25:28   maybe it's time to re-evaluate what your schedule actually looks like.

00:25:33   Like, maybe this thing that was previously true is no longer true.

00:25:38   That waking up super early is like the best way for me to have a good day.

00:25:43   I think you have to constantly re-evaluate the way that you work and the way that you set up your schedule.

00:25:51   And while I have booted myself back into what for me I know is the ideal situation where

00:25:57   I either wake up or I'm pretty much half awake

00:26:01   before my alarm goes off anyway.

00:26:04   And that's like, "Ah, okay, great. Now I know I'm in the perfect zone."

00:26:07   But it took so long to get there

00:26:10   that I do wonder, like, "Hmm, maybe

00:26:13   this early of a schedule just isn't for me anymore

00:26:16   and I'll have to just see over the next several months, like, how do I feel about this?

00:26:21   Maybe this is a thing that needs to be adjusted."

00:26:23   Or maybe it's just, well, I had an unusually exhausting summer and it just took longer than expected to get back into things

00:26:31   because stuff changes over time.

00:26:33   But yeah, it's like, I think it's very...

00:26:36   This skill of observing yourself I think is one of the most important skills that you need to have.

00:26:43   And being sensitive to things don't always stay the same is part of that skill.

00:26:52   So Grey, I feel like our listeners are waiting on the edge of their seats for where my parcel

00:26:59   is.

00:27:00   I don't think they are, but okay.

00:27:02   I'm afraid to say that there will be no live unboxing today on the show.

00:27:07   Oh, you're not going to treat the listeners to a live audio unboxing of your Apple Watch?

00:27:12   Nope, because I have been bitten by the bug that is parcel delivery in that apparently

00:27:22   I'm not in my home today.

00:27:24   Mm-hmm. Yes. Because they have attempted to deliver to me

00:27:28   And couldn't couldn't couldn't find me. So I don't really know what happened. I'm sitting right here. But yeah, that's that so no

00:27:37   I'm sorry. I'm sorry cortex listeners

00:27:39   there will be no there will be no live unboxing for an Apple watch on the show today because

00:27:42   I'm I'm in some other dimension I think

00:27:46   I'm sorry Myke. That's okay. You have my you have my sympathies

00:27:51   I too have very many a time at the end of the day gone down to the ground floor in my building and discovered

00:27:57   Many a letter informing me that I was not home all day to receive my packages that I was waiting for. I feel like

00:28:03   you lazy b*******

00:28:06   I know what happened. They gave me a delivery window, you know, like we're gonna deliver between 3.15 and 4.15

00:28:15   Mm-hmm 4.15 passed

00:28:17   Mm-hmm. So oh I see

00:28:20   I see, you think there's some shenanigans here.

00:28:22   - Yeah.

00:28:23   - That somebody is filling out on his tablet

00:28:25   that he hit his marks and you just weren't home.

00:28:28   - Yeah, because there's always a lot of things to deliver

00:28:32   on a new iPhone day, right?

00:28:34   'Cause it's also a new iPhone day today.

00:28:37   And I expect that they decided

00:28:40   that they were just gonna miss me out on my window

00:28:43   because he has other windows he needs to hit.

00:28:46   - Look at that.

00:28:47   Juice in the stats.

00:28:48   - Yep, that's how they do it.

00:28:49   The great scourge of the world.

00:28:51   That's how they get you.

00:28:52   And then I want to change my delivery day,

00:28:53   but the system is experiencing difficulties.

00:28:56   All right.

00:28:57   From everybody else who's really angry.

00:28:58   Exactly.

00:28:59   We're experiencing issues updating

00:29:00   your parcel information at this time.

00:29:03   Me too.

00:29:04   Me too.

00:29:04   I'm sorry, Myke.

00:29:07   Yeah, it's fine.

00:29:08   I'm sorry that you didn't get your devices on day one.

00:29:09   It's okay.

00:29:10   I genuinely am sorry,

00:29:11   because I know this is a thing that is actually part

00:29:15   of your job, is getting these things on time.

00:29:17   Yeah.

00:29:18   Luckily the Apple Watch isn't as much of a problem.

00:29:21   If it was a phone I would be in much more disarray right now, but this is just going

00:29:25   to be a mild inconvenience honestly.

00:29:27   I'll work it out.

00:29:29   I've still got a few days before.

00:29:30   So you've shown your hand then, you didn't buy an iPhone 8.

00:29:33   No I didn't buy an iPhone 8.

00:29:35   Oh yeah, we're ever so slightly sneaking towards the iPhone discussion again, which we're not

00:29:39   going to have right now.

00:29:40   No of course.

00:29:41   Because I want to talk about the sleep survey, because it kind of took a real turn, Gray,

00:29:46   the Reddit it kind of got a bit out of control. So my original conceit of my ill-conceived

00:29:53   survey was one quick question just to try and get a rough idea of do cortex listeners,

00:30:01   if given the chance, would they give up sleep? Right? Like that was all the question was

00:30:04   for me. It was like, do you prefer to sleep or would you prefer to not sleep?

00:30:07   But you know what, Myke, when you were talking to me on the show, I was very confused as

00:30:12   as to what your question was.

00:30:13   - Okay.

00:30:14   - And I was also really aware when I was listening

00:30:17   to do my edit of the show, that I still felt like,

00:30:21   I don't understand what the hell this guy's asking me.

00:30:23   I don't understand, I can't conceptualize

00:30:25   what this question really is.

00:30:26   - Well you see, 'cause this was the thing,

00:30:27   I mean, and I think this is a problem that only people had.

00:30:29   Too many people were trying to find this to be

00:30:32   like a real scientific survey

00:30:34   that I was attempting to conduct.

00:30:36   It was just a pure thing of like,

00:30:38   if somebody said to you, you can never sleep again,

00:30:41   would you take it?

00:30:42   That was all I wanted to know.

00:30:43   It's like, and it's the idea of,

00:30:45   do our listeners feel like they enjoy sleep?

00:30:48   I guess is maybe a better way to phrase the question.

00:30:51   - Yeah, but no, but-- - Like, enjoy it so much

00:30:52   that they would never give it up.

00:30:55   That's kind of what I was looking for.

00:30:57   - This is like if you have a conversation

00:30:59   where someone says like,

00:31:00   oh, what superpowers would you want?

00:31:01   You have to get out the lawyer to consult

00:31:04   about what the details are of the superpower,

00:31:06   because it really matters.

00:31:08   Where it's like, oh, I'm invulnerable.

00:31:10   It's like, okay, well, yeah, let me,

00:31:11   we need to go through a few things here.

00:31:13   It's like, well, when the heat death of the universe arrives,

00:31:16   like, am I still around because I'm invulnerable?

00:31:18   Like, well, then I don't want your,

00:31:19   like, you need to get out the piece of paper here.

00:31:21   And so when you say you don't need to sleep,

00:31:23   it's like, okay, well, do I live the same amount of time

00:31:26   and my lifespan has just increased a third?

00:31:28   Or am I still counting down the same number of hours?

00:31:32   Like, this really matters.

00:31:33   - Just take it as a, it was all it was,

00:31:35   it was just a simple question.

00:31:36   Anyway, I know now I've learned a lesson

00:31:40   because the Reddit thread is full of people

00:31:42   asking me for rule clarifications.

00:31:45   - I know, of course. - There was no rules,

00:31:46   everybody, like I wasn't trying to set up a world for you.

00:31:49   - But you can't answer the question

00:31:51   without understanding the rules.

00:31:52   - Yes, well, I mean, it was meant to just be like really

00:31:55   like a litmus test, a gauge, like just a very rough idea

00:32:00   was all I was looking for.

00:32:01   - What you really found out is that

00:32:03   there's two kinds of listeners,

00:32:05   the kind of listeners who don't care

00:32:06   and the kind of listeners like me

00:32:08   who get out the rules book and they're like,

00:32:09   "Okay, well now tell me where on this D&D chart this is going to follow, right? What do you mean by the word chaos, right?

00:32:15   That's that's what you discovered."

00:32:17   "Oh, do you know what? I can actually see a delivery driver

00:32:20   outside my window."

00:32:22   "Go, go get him."

00:32:23   "I'm gonna try and shout at him."

00:32:24   "Go get him. Go run.

00:32:25   I don't know if he's gonna make it, guys."

00:32:28   "Hey!"

00:32:31   "Hey, excuse me."

00:32:33   "Here."

00:32:34   "Do you have a possible-"

00:32:35   [Laughs]

00:32:36   I don't think you listeners can hear it, but I just heard Myke through my headphones yelling at the delivery driver to go get his attention.

00:32:44   Let's see what happens.

00:32:46   I'm sure this is very dramatic for you listeners.

00:32:48   I'm sure you're all very invested in whether or not Myke is getting his watches today.

00:32:53   Well, there's a... are you sure?

00:32:56   No. Alright.

00:32:57   No. Doesn't sound good.

00:33:00   Doesn't sound good.

00:33:01   I don't believe him.

00:33:03   (laughs)

00:33:05   It didn't sound good when you were coming back.

00:33:09   - Sitting outside the window, he's like, "Nah, 62."

00:33:12   I'm like, "Whatever."

00:33:13   Anyway.

00:33:14   - All right, now that you're back, Myke,

00:33:15   tell me the results of this sleep survey

00:33:18   that made no logical sense at all

00:33:20   when you really wanted to just ask people,

00:33:22   "Do you like sleep, yes or no?"

00:33:24   - For the whole time,

00:33:26   from the beginning of the survey to now,

00:33:29   it was around 60% to 40%.

00:33:32   That's 60% people would say I wouldn't want to sleep and 40% of people said that

00:33:37   they would sleep. And even though so many people required rules, there were many thousands

00:33:43   of people that filled out the survey without rural clarifications. And basically, my hypothesis

00:33:51   that I had in my mind came true, which was that given the chance, most of our listeners

00:33:56   would prefer to use that time for something else other than sleeping. That was kind of

00:34:01   all I wanted to know really but for whatever reason either I phrased it

00:34:05   badly or like just this isn't the type of question you're allowed to ask people

00:34:08   I don't know who those people are who filled out yes they'd go without sleep

00:34:14   without doing the rules clarification that's as like wishing with a genie you

00:34:18   know without getting out the rules as well it's like wow you're gonna get app

00:34:21   buddies forever that you didn't ask for if you do that this is one of those

00:34:24   monkey paw type situations that's all it is you know you say you can't sleep well

00:34:30   that means you lose your eyelids.

00:34:31   I don't know like how it ends up being,

00:34:33   but like there's a bad situation in there somewhere.

00:34:36   But that's not what I was looking for,

00:34:38   but that's what I think most people in our Reddit thread

00:34:41   were expecting was gonna happen.

00:34:42   But purely, it was a simple question.

00:34:44   - I feel like you got a real bucket full of internet

00:34:47   right there, Myke.

00:34:48   That's what I think. - I really did.

00:34:49   I got a couple of fistfuls of internet thrown at me

00:34:52   over a couple of weeks.

00:34:55   And you know what as well,

00:34:56   I know this is gonna be one of these things,

00:34:58   going to come back to me forever. This is going to be one of those things that in four

00:35:03   years time I will still be getting questions about clarifications of the rules of the Sleep/No

00:35:09   Sleep Survey.

00:35:10   That'll teach you. No more surveys, Myke.

00:35:13   Well, yeah, no more surveys. I'm not going to say that though, because I might have surveys

00:35:17   in the future. But next time I do a survey, I'm at least going to know what I'm letting

00:35:21   myself in for instead.

00:35:23   I'll do a survey. I'll ask the people if they want surveys.

00:35:26   But what kind of survey is grey?

00:35:29   This episode of Cortex is brought to you in part by our friends at Hover.

00:35:33   Building your online identity has never been more important and with Hover you find the

00:35:38   domain that shows the world who you are, what you're passionate about and what you're building.

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00:35:54   we were naming the name of our company when we were coming up with the name Relay FM,

00:35:58   we went through lists and lists of ideas that we had. And one of the reasons that we decided

00:36:03   to call our company Relay FM is because the domain was available. That's how important

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00:36:12   want to be able to protect the identity and that's where Hover comes in. I think about

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00:36:26   them because it's part of who I am online. People know what these things are and we find

00:36:30   some fun in it together. If you want to put your idea out into the world, you need a domain

00:36:36   name for it. It is that simple. The thing that's great about Hover is that they allow

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00:36:53   and it's super simple. They have over 400 domain name extensions to choose from as well,

00:36:57   including all of the classics and fun niche extensions. It's how I'm able to get .coms,

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00:37:07   Hover is there to help you make the first step. Head to hover.com/cortex and you'll get 10%

00:37:13   of your first purchase. I want to thank Hover for their support of this show and for helping me name

00:37:18   the things that I care about. Okay so one of the reasons that I've struggled to

00:37:23   sleep is that I decided to take on a project tied to the busiest part of my

00:37:31   year which was to record an audiobook. Close friend and colleague of mine, Mr.

00:37:37   Federico Fattucci, he runs a website called MacStories and MacStories is

00:37:41   focused on technology mostly around Apple whether it's iOS devices, Macs, that

00:37:46   of stuff. They talk about these types of things. We've spoken about Federico a lot on this show,

00:37:50   because he's very good at working on the iPad, workflow, and things like that.

00:37:55   He writes a very in-depth and interesting iOS review every year. So he was working on one for

00:38:04   iOS 11, where he goes into detail about all of the different features and facets of iOS 11,

00:38:12   and the release that Apple put out.

00:38:13   - I would say that Federico's review

00:38:16   is the definitive review of iOS 11.

00:38:19   - Yep, because he explores and talks about everything

00:38:22   that is coming into it.

00:38:24   And it's really great, you can pick it up,

00:38:25   you can read parts of it.

00:38:26   Federico's reviews are longer than the types of things

00:38:29   that I would usually read.

00:38:31   I think I've said on this show many times,

00:38:32   like I don't like to read.

00:38:34   - You're not a big reader.

00:38:34   - I'm not a big reader.

00:38:36   I struggle to keep focus and attention on reading books.

00:38:40   I like to listen to books, I like audio books.

00:38:42   Any book that we've read for the book clubs,

00:38:45   all that sort of stuff, I do in audio versions.

00:38:48   - Which I have mentioned, I think serves you poorly

00:38:52   for some of the books that we have read, but.

00:38:53   - Yeah, yeah, but such is like.

00:38:56   - I can't imagine reading some of those books

00:38:58   without being able to skim.

00:39:00   - Yeah, but the thing is I would pay no attention to it

00:39:02   and give up if I had to read, like I would give up.

00:39:05   It just never would have worked.

00:39:07   So I have spoken to Federico a few times

00:39:09   about like, you know, why don't you have an audio book version of your review?

00:39:12   Like I would love that.

00:39:14   It would be an easier way for me and I'm sure many other people to consume

00:39:18   the content.

00:39:20   And we spoke about this for a couple of years and then I ended up putting my

00:39:23   money where my mouth is and I recommended to be the person that would do it.

00:39:27   Hmm.

00:39:28   We agreed upon it and I did it and it was like 35 hours of work.

00:39:34   but I narrated, produced, edited, mastered an audio book

00:39:39   for Federico's iOS 11 review,

00:39:44   and it's five hours and 22 minutes long in total,

00:39:48   and it's available now.

00:39:49   You can buy it.

00:39:50   There'll be links in the show notes if you're interested.

00:39:52   I think it's a really good way of consuming it.

00:39:53   If you like podcasts and want this type of information,

00:39:56   then go for it.

00:39:57   The reason I'm bringing this up today

00:39:58   is because there are a couple of things

00:40:00   through this whole process that were interesting to me.

00:40:04   The first of them being deadlines and bosses.

00:40:08   [laughter]

00:40:10   Because I've not really had either of those things imposed on me in a while.

00:40:15   Well, don't you think- but this- all of the shows that you do are deadlines.

00:40:20   Mhm.

00:40:21   Like, I think of you as imposing deadlines upon me with regards to this show.

00:40:25   Like, the podcasts are deadlines.

00:40:28   Yep. I impose deadlines on other people.

00:40:31   Nobody really imposes them on me.

00:40:33   I choose the deadlines, right? Like, I choose them.

00:40:36   All the deadlines that I have these days are deadlines that I chose.

00:40:41   The deadlines for this were not chosen by me.

00:40:44   I mean, in some instances they were chosen by Apple, like, whenever Apple wants,

00:40:47   because we don't know when iOS 11 is going to come out,

00:40:50   until like, a week before it comes out.

00:40:52   I always forget that. For some reason, in my head, I'm always thinking that

00:40:56   that is a... that the release date is announced at WWDC, but it isn't.

00:41:00   So there is like a time frame that you can work to, but so like there are these issues where like,

00:41:05   we didn't know when it was going to come out, so there was like this deadline being set by the

00:41:09   universe. And then, you know, also in working with Federico, like I'm working for him,

00:41:14   I'm producing this book for him, he will put deadlines on me of like, this is when I'm going

00:41:19   to need it. Like they can announce it on this date, but I'm still going to need it X amount

00:41:23   of time before that. So that was interesting. Yeah, there's some amount of, you need to have

00:41:28   it ahead of time to get it ready to actually go up. And I had like a real boss, right? I had someone

00:41:35   setting the tasks, I had someone providing me with the material, they would set deadlines,

00:41:41   they would make approvals and request me to make changes. I have not done something like this in

00:41:45   a very long time. How did you feel about having a boss? Like are you going to badmouth your boss

00:41:50   on the podcast? He was, no, he was fine. Because it was also, it's a collaborative thing, right?

00:41:58   but there were parts of it that just reminded me

00:42:02   of having a boss and working in a process.

00:42:06   Because they would give me something,

00:42:08   I would make something out of it,

00:42:09   and they would be like, "Oh, you gotta change this word.

00:42:11   "You gotta reread this sentence.

00:42:13   "You haven't done this in the right way."

00:42:15   This is what it was like when I was writing

00:42:17   advertising copy at the bank.

00:42:19   That was this process.

00:42:21   And it's been a really long time since I've done it,

00:42:23   and it was very interesting.

00:42:25   It was illuminating for me.

00:42:27   I'm illuminating how.

00:42:28   - It was both better and worse than I expected

00:42:31   in its own weird and interesting ways, right?

00:42:34   Like I have worked for myself for long enough,

00:42:36   which makes me believe that I could never work

00:42:38   for anybody ever again.

00:42:40   But like, it was fine.

00:42:42   Like it wasn't a problem for me to be told what to do.

00:42:47   - Yeah, like, okay, you say that,

00:42:51   but I think this is such a different situation

00:42:53   because you essentially talked yourself into doing this,

00:42:56   - Right, you really bullied your way into a job

00:42:59   where like there needs to be an audiobook version,

00:43:01   there needs to be an audiobook version.

00:43:02   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:02   - And eventually you're like,

00:43:03   I'm gonna make an audiobook version.

00:43:04   I don't think this is a normal boss-employee relationship.

00:43:08   - No, it's not.

00:43:09   Well, that's why I'm saying it's like it's better and worse,

00:43:12   right, because like the better part is that,

00:43:14   oh, it was fine, and the worst part is realizing that,

00:43:16   oh, maybe it's true all along

00:43:17   and I actually can't do anything that people tell me.

00:43:20   Right, but like just the idea of the process,

00:43:23   when we started out, like I was thinking like,

00:43:25   "Oh, I'm gonna be a real diva here."

00:43:28   And be like, "Nobody can tell me

00:43:29   how to pronounce things differently.

00:43:30   Like, you know, like I do them my way

00:43:33   that like, I know what to do here."

00:43:35   But then when they would hand things to me and be like,

00:43:37   "Oh, you should change this because of this."

00:43:39   It was like, "Oh, okay, you know, that makes sense."

00:43:41   Right, so it was interesting,

00:43:43   it was illuminating to me in the instance

00:43:45   of I was able to break out of my own ego

00:43:49   and actually work with people in this way,

00:43:54   which is different to how I work

00:43:55   because like in my mind, it's like,

00:43:57   oh, I'm the professional here, right?

00:43:59   Like I know what I'm doing,

00:44:01   but I was still able to receive criticism and feedback

00:44:05   in a way that I was concerned that I might not be able to

00:44:09   because I've been out of this world for so long.

00:44:12   - Hmm.

00:44:13   - So that was an illuminating thing for me,

00:44:16   which I found to be very useful to know,

00:44:19   at least like for future projects and stuff like that, right?

00:44:22   Like that I am aware of the fact

00:44:24   that I'm able to take on this type of feedback and make changes.

00:44:31   Like it was useful for me to know that I have not completely lost those skills

00:44:36   when I was concerned that maybe I would have.

00:44:39   Hmm.

00:44:40   Because for all of my projects, like, I tend to be the final say on most of them.

00:44:48   Or at least if I'm not final, I feel like I have as much say as everybody else because

00:44:55   it's a collaborative effort.

00:44:56   But this really was a project that I was turning in.

00:45:01   This was somebody else's work that I was just reading.

00:45:05   I am merely a method of delivery.

00:45:09   You're a cog in the machine, Myke.

00:45:10   That's what you are.

00:45:11   And if there were changes that I felt should be made because they sound better to read,

00:45:14   kind of thing, I had to confirm them with the person whose work I was attempting to

00:45:18   change. I didn't have complete agency in this as I do in my other work. And so it was

00:45:25   an interesting experience in that way of becoming a cog in a machine again. I was part of a

00:45:32   team producing a thing, but it wasn't my original work. So it was a very different

00:45:41   thing which felt a lot more like being part of a job again because that was what it was like.

00:45:46   I was flexing those muscles again. Like the creative work that I would put together for

00:45:51   a piece of mail that went through somebody's letterbox, the artwork, I didn't make that.

00:45:57   It wasn't my idea. Somebody in a design agency made the artwork. I just approved it and turned

00:46:04   it into a thing and put it through where it needed to go, right? Like it was very much like that

00:46:09   again and it was just surprising to me that in that instance like that was a

00:46:15   thing that I was able to still deal with work with and be happy with so it was it

00:46:23   was illuminating to me because I wasn't sure when I undertook this project what

00:46:28   it was gonna be like to be a part of a thing which I don't really have much

00:46:34   control over.

00:46:35   Are you going to give up Relay and go back to the bank?

00:46:40   Yeah, that's what I'm building to here.

00:46:43   As I was wondering, if you found you've missed it and you want to go back to the bank?

00:46:48   I didn't miss it.

00:46:50   I didn't miss it in that way, right?

00:46:53   It was an interesting learning experience for me, but this isn't how I want to do my

00:46:56   work, like every single day of my life.

00:47:00   It was exhausting to produce this thing because it felt completely different to podcasting

00:47:11   in a way that I wasn't expecting.

00:47:16   You mentioned there about having to check with the original author if you wanted to

00:47:20   change the wording of anything.

00:47:22   This is a thing with the written word that it totally sounds different when you speak

00:47:28   it aloud. And there's lots of ways that people write and read things that are totally fine when

00:47:33   they're being written and read, that if you actually say it out loud is awkward. Like,

00:47:39   I don't know what Federico's writing process is like, but I'm gonna guess he probably doesn't

00:47:47   have an out loud draft. And so then you are the person who is doing the out loud draft and you

00:47:54   you need to check with him.

00:47:57   And I just, I happen to know that when companies

00:48:01   commission the audiobooks versions to be made,

00:48:04   like they do like to have the authors read it

00:48:07   if the author has a reasonable enough voice.

00:48:10   But one of the other reasons why they like

00:48:12   to have the author read it is because it closes that loop

00:48:15   of the author can then, in the recording booth,

00:48:18   live just make the changes to say like,

00:48:20   "Oh no, it is better if I just say it this way."

00:48:22   And they don't need to confirm with anybody

00:48:23   because like we have the author right here. He's the guy reading the book right now.

00:48:27   But you could not do that when you're actually recording the thing.

00:48:31   And I think it's, like I imagine it's gotta be

00:48:35   pretty tiring to

00:48:39   read aloud long stretches of

00:48:42   something that somebody else has written.

00:48:45   Like a thing that is not in your authorial

00:48:49   voice or is not the way you would say things.

00:48:52   It's tricky because you're constantly in the mindset of knowing it's not you and the

00:49:02   presentation is different.

00:49:05   The way that I'm talking now is just coming out of my brain, right?

00:49:10   So like the things that I'm saying and the way that I pitch my voice and all that sort

00:49:13   of stuff, it's just the way that somebody naturally speaks.

00:49:16   It's like, you know, like the way that your voice takes the little rhythm that it takes

00:49:19   and goes up and down here and there.

00:49:21   It's way harder to do that sort of stuff when the words are already created because

00:49:27   you can either read them through and practice it a bunch of times, or you do what I did

00:49:30   where it's like, "Well, I'm just reading it, and if it doesn't sound right, I'll

00:49:34   go back and fix it."

00:49:35   Or like, "I'll say something and be like, 'Oh, it doesn't sound right, so read it

00:49:38   again, read it again, read it again.'"

00:49:41   And then there's like words that all of a sudden, like, they're just not in your

00:49:44   mouth anymore.

00:49:45   Like, this sentence of three, four, five words that somehow is impossible for you to say,

00:49:51   And it's like, why is this happening to me?

00:49:53   This, you know, it's tiring.

00:49:55   It's tiring work because you are, your brain is working at a completely different rate.

00:50:00   Because like, as I'm talking to you right now, I'm like looking around and I'm looking

00:50:03   at a document in front of me and there are just like things that happening and it's,

00:50:07   it helps kind of just focus my mind because there's all this stuff and I can talk and

00:50:11   make silly hand gestures.

00:50:12   But like, I'm looking at this page and I'm just reading the words on this page.

00:50:17   And it is like a, it is a very, very different experience in a way that I wasn't quite expecting

00:50:23   it to be.

00:50:24   And like the way that it made me feel, like me and you will sit here for like three, four

00:50:29   hours, like three or four hours and we'll record this show.

00:50:32   I would sit in front of the microphone for 45 minutes and I felt like I was going to

00:50:36   pass out.

00:50:37   [Laughter]

00:50:38   Okay, so I've never done an audiobook but I think the closest I'm realizing as you're

00:50:43   talking about is my experience is doing the ads for the podcasts.

00:50:48   Well I thought you were going to say like doing the scripts for your YouTube videos.

00:50:52   That's probably what it's closest to. No but that's different because that

00:50:56   that is a thing that is in my voice that is also designed to be written out loud.

00:51:00   Yeah okay. The reason why I'm saying the ads is because like I have to concentrate so hard when

00:51:07   I'm doing the ads and part of that part of that is like hearing you describe doing the audiobook

00:51:12   It's the same thing that it's

00:51:15   like when we're talking

00:51:18   The words just happen like if you if you pay attention

00:51:21   You don't even really know how you talk or how sentences are formed in your head

00:51:25   Like it just kind of comes out and you're talking or like or like you say as I'm talking to you right now

00:51:30   I'm moving my hands

00:51:33   Even though you're not here to see that I can hear you moving your hands even when you say it

00:51:38   It's it's just part of how conversation occurs

00:51:42   But reading a thing that has been written for you to read is just more different.

00:51:51   And so yeah, I always find it's like, wow, the ads really take a lot of mental focus.

00:51:57   And this is exactly the reason, it's the same thing you're going through with the audiobook.

00:52:02   That it's because it is not in your voice, because it's a sentence that might not have been read aloud by the person who's originally writing it.

00:52:10   It's just a different experience.

00:52:12   So I'm thinking like if I was in a situation where we said like,

00:52:16   "Hey, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna record all of the year's Cortex ads in advance in one go in an hour."

00:52:22   I feel like I would be thoroughly drained by the end of that.

00:52:28   So I can easily see that when you're doing the audiobook,

00:52:32   a 45 minute stretch is like as far as you would want to go before taking a break.

00:52:38   I'm really curious to know how long like a real professional audiobook narrator goes

00:52:44   for?

00:52:45   I can't even imagine it honestly like I can't. The most I could do was an hour at a time

00:52:50   and I would have to take a break. Like if I would sit and talk for an hour and that's

00:52:55   like you know I'm not like speaking constantly for that hour you know like for every minute

00:53:00   maybe I was taking 10 seconds right like you know that I would take like maybe a couple

00:53:04   minutes here and there to like just relax and then like take a drink of water and just

00:53:09   like go over things in my head and just like get ready to start speaking again. But if

00:53:15   I would do that process for more than an hour, like I just couldn't do it anymore. Like I

00:53:20   just have to get up and walk away. It was a very interesting and illuminating process.

00:53:25   I wasn't expecting it to be as hard as it was to do. It was a surprise to me. I thought

00:53:33   that it was like I do this all the time like this is no problem I speak for a

00:53:37   living like fine my what my throat was getting horse that doesn't happen to me

00:53:45   mm-hmm like we will finish today and I'll be fine but I would spend a day

00:53:53   maybe recording like three or four hours for that day and I could barely talk in

00:53:58   the evening there were just so many things about this process that were

00:54:01   But surprising to me in that way that it was like, "Oh, I just think I'll just be able

00:54:04   to transfer my skills.

00:54:05   It won't be a problem."

00:54:07   But a lot, obviously, it was easier for me because I knew I had to, like the edit was

00:54:11   fine, right?

00:54:12   Like I could edit things together.

00:54:13   You know, there are points where like two halves of one word are two completely different

00:54:18   times of me speaking, right?

00:54:19   And like no one would ever know because like I've just gotten good at that over time, but

00:54:22   that was easy to do.

00:54:24   But...

00:54:25   Yeah, that's a more direct transfer of skills.

00:54:27   But I was expecting there to be a greater transfer of skills for the speaking part than there was

00:54:32   Obviously there are a lot of things

00:54:34   Sorry

00:54:34   Like I can present things to people in a way that they can understand because I'm used to speaking and enunciating

00:54:39   Right, like that is a thing that I have built. That's a skill that I've built

00:54:43   But it was just surprising to me how taxing it was

00:54:46   To speak for long periods of time in that way now for all these screenshots that Federico includes in his review

00:54:53   Did you paint a word picture for the people, right?

00:54:56   So this is part of it. How do you do that?

00:54:58   These were things that I had to do all like every time something is in

00:55:02   parentheses.

00:55:03   You have to use the parentheses voice.

00:55:05   Everybody knows like there's a parentheses voice you use when you're talking.

00:55:08   I use that voice, but when you come back on the other side of it,

00:55:11   if it's not written to be done that way, it's really tricky.

00:55:15   And like, so there was stuff that I had to move around there,

00:55:17   or there were times when Federico would include a very small string of code.

00:55:23   How do you read that in a way that makes any sense to people?

00:55:26   You read it in a computer voice.

00:55:28   You have to pretend that you're a robot in that moment.

00:55:30   Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:55:31   And a string.

00:55:32   Yeah, exactly.

00:55:34   You have to, you have to be the Snellatron for a moment there and read it like that.

00:55:38   Yeah, it was, stuff like that was very tricky.

00:55:40   And so I think that's part of it is that I, I had to pay complete

00:55:46   attention to every word that I was reading in case anything

00:55:49   like that was going to happen.

00:55:50   So like the attention as well I think is what added to the fatigue.

00:55:54   Like it was just a complete like you must focus.

00:55:58   You know and I expect a lot of the ways that audiobook readers get around a lot of this stuff

00:56:04   is spending a lot of time reading the text beforehand. I didn't have time to do that.

00:56:08   Well actually when you just said that I was just wondering

00:56:12   because I mean again Federico's Reviews

00:56:16   It's a lot of words. Like do you know how many, what the word count was for the book in the end?

00:56:21   I don't know off the top of my head. No.

00:56:23   It's gonna be like, like they are novella sizes. I think we can we can fairly say.

00:56:29   But I'm just realizing

00:56:31   though that it's it's not like

00:56:35   it's not like he's just gonna finish the book on on one particular day and then hand it to you and it has to

00:56:40   like there's not going to be enough buffer time between when he thinks the review is finished because the review

00:56:46   I know is being like tinkered with until the absolute last possible second. So I'm I'm gonna guess

00:56:53   That you must have gotten

00:56:56   Segments as it's gone along like this segment is close enough. Just go

00:57:00   Yeah, that was how we decided to do it

00:57:02   Like there would be chapters that could be completed in advance and I was just completing each chapter as they were coming to me

00:57:09   But it was a short period of time right like the ones that were done early they were done in like early August

00:57:16   because they were easy to do, they were done.

00:57:19   But then there was a bunch that were done

00:57:21   within a week to 10, 14 days of the thing being released.

00:57:27   So there was a real time pressure to having everything done.

00:57:35   So with me also trying to work my usual life

00:57:39   at the busiest time in my working year.

00:57:44   - Right, so during high iPhone season,

00:57:47   when your life is the busiest it's going to be,

00:57:51   you also decided to add in another 35 hour project

00:57:56   just on top of that for funsies.

00:57:58   - So there wasn't enough time for me to sit

00:58:00   and read the entire thing multiple times before I read it.

00:58:04   So I had to read everything as it was happening

00:58:07   and would make changes as I needed to, right?

00:58:10   So I expect that one of the ways

00:58:12   it is less mentally taxing is by having already gone through it and having the text in your mind

00:58:18   in some way because you probably then need to think less about what you change and what you

00:58:24   don't and how you present things. Because I know that there is a part of my brain that is able to

00:58:29   capture this stuff because when I edit this show four or five days sometimes after we've recorded

00:58:37   it, my brain knows the parts that need to be taken out without me knowing it. We'll

00:58:44   get to a section and I'll be like, "I'm gonna cut this part," or like, there's a part where

00:58:48   I'm like, "Oh, I know I re-say this in a moment, in a clearer way, so I'm just gonna cut that."

00:58:53   But I don't actively remember these things. I don't note them down, but it's just floating

00:58:57   around somewhere in my brain. So I'm confident that if I would have been able to sit and

00:59:03   read that book in advance, it would have been easier for me to record it. But I didn't

00:59:09   have the luxury of that time. Because the deadline was anytime.

00:59:14   It's like you were doing just-in-time audiobook production.

00:59:20   That was it. Yep, that was it. Audiobook on demand. So it was interesting for that as

00:59:28   It's like, I don't have that in my life.

00:59:30   Like, if there is a deadline I can't meet,

00:59:33   there are steps that I can take to change it.

00:59:35   There was nothing that we could do about this.

00:59:38   If it was ever gonna happen, it had to be on that day.

00:59:41   - Right.

00:59:42   - And so, yeah, that was interesting as well.

00:59:44   The other part of this, which I've never done before,

00:59:49   was answering the question of,

00:59:51   how much should I pay you for this?

00:59:53   - You mean, how much are you, Myke, going to charge

00:59:57   for the production of the book.

01:00:00   - Yeah, so Federico asked me the question,

01:00:02   how much shall I pay you?

01:00:03   I didn't know how to answer that question.

01:00:07   - Well, Myke, haven't you spent a bunch of time

01:00:10   tracking your time so that you know exactly

01:00:12   what your dollar value is worth every hour?

01:00:15   Haven't you done this?

01:00:15   - Yes, and that was how I actually ended up

01:00:17   coming to the figure.

01:00:18   Right, is I had a rough idea of what I believed

01:00:23   my hours were worth, but the other thing is

01:00:25   I didn't know how long it was going to take me.

01:00:27   - Yeah, that's the other problem.

01:00:29   - I didn't know what was fair.

01:00:31   I didn't know how good it was going to be.

01:00:34   Or if anyone would even want to listen to it.

01:00:36   It's like all of these questions going around in my mind,

01:00:38   it's like, so really I didn't know how much money to charge.

01:00:42   Now I picked a number, we agreed upon the number.

01:00:45   I didn't want to go too high, right?

01:00:47   'Cause it went, it felt like if I go too high

01:00:49   and this sucks, like this guy's one of my best friends.

01:00:53   Like I don't want to, you know,

01:00:55   Like there were so many things in writing on this decision

01:00:58   that made it really tricky.

01:01:00   I actually, we ended up on an amount of money

01:01:03   that I think was fine for my time.

01:01:05   It actually ended up being pretty much exactly

01:01:08   what I consider my hourly rate to be

01:01:10   for the amount of time, like the amount of hours

01:01:13   that it took me to put this thing together.

01:01:16   But I had no idea that was gonna be the case

01:01:18   when I set out on the project.

01:01:20   So it was an interesting experience for me

01:01:22   and like somebody saying to me,

01:01:23   how much shall I pay you for this? And then I had to weigh up a bunch of factors that didn't

01:01:28   have any monetary value to them to pick out an amount.

01:01:31   Yeah, I mean, you've got a couple of things here because, yes, of course, this is

01:01:36   where you do have the complication of you're working with someone who is also a friend,

01:01:42   which always makes things harder.

01:01:44   Interesting. Makes them more interesting.

01:01:46   [laughs]

01:01:47   And we could say interesting, but it's like, or perhaps less clear, right, is another way

01:01:52   to put it, right? The waters are a bit more muddied because it's always tricky to separate out these

01:01:59   kinds of things. And yeah, like you said, you don't know how much it's going to,

01:02:06   how many hours you're going to be putting into this kind of thing. You're describing part of the

01:02:13   problems which in some sense where you as the cog in the machine in theory don't really have to

01:02:19   worry about the market demand for this product, right? That is the burden that the employer

01:02:25   should be taking on. He's making a calculation that people will want to buy it and he's paying

01:02:29   it for you. But you as someone who also is running a business can't help but be running that side of

01:02:35   the equation in your head. So I can see why it's a very hard thing to figure out what is it that you

01:02:40   actually want to charge in the end for this thing. But I'm glad that you came to what you think was a

01:02:45   fair price. Yeah I think it ended up working out okay right like I didn't

01:02:49   feel like I was paid not enough or too much. But at the time when we were

01:02:57   setting that price I had no idea what that was gonna end up looking like. I

01:03:01   also do know that like even though I feel like it was a fair price I would

01:03:05   have to change that price in the future. Well at the very least you know you see

01:03:09   it came out to be what your hourly rate is but but like this is one of the

01:03:14   things when people do time tracking and figure out what their hourly rate is.

01:03:17   Your hourly rate is is also like you're kind of like your break even rate,

01:03:21   because it's really it's a question of opportunity cost of

01:03:24   this is how much you make per hour working on your own things.

01:03:28   And so it's the it's the break even rate for any other project.

01:03:34   Yeah. And also, do you know what?

01:03:35   That is not the same amount of money.

01:03:38   That is my hourly rate for doing what I'm doing right now.

01:03:42   I don't know what my hourly rate should be for audiobooks, because audiobooks are harder to make than podcasts.

01:03:47   Right, yeah, and that's a thing that you have to factor in as well.

01:03:53   It certainly sounds like if you spent the morning working on audiobooks,

01:03:57   that would dramatically limit the number of podcasts you could probably schedule in the remainder of that day.

01:04:04   Yep.

01:04:04   So you wouldn't want to have three hours of audiobooks followed immediately by three different shows, I'm gonna guess.

01:04:12   Well, because I was squeezing this in places that I don't want to work as well. It was

01:04:17   going in the weekends, it was going in the evenings, I was consumed by this project for

01:04:22   a period of time. So all of this lends into, would I do it again, and if I do, how would

01:04:28   that look like? And yeah, well, one, who knows if I'm ever going to get the opportunity

01:04:34   again, right? This might be it for you because I'm not paying for that guy again. Nobody

01:04:39   knows. So, you know, but it was an interesting, it was a very interesting project. It was

01:04:46   illuminating because I think this is the first thing that I've done, which has not been a

01:04:52   podcast since I became self-employed. I can't think of any other work that I've completed

01:04:59   to be paid for during this period of time. So it was illuminating to me to see that,

01:05:05   to see what that process would be like to have that feeling of producing something different.

01:05:12   I think I just like making podcasts, great.

01:05:14   So you're not going to spin up an audiobook production house on the side?

01:05:19   No.

01:05:20   I have no interest in doing this for anybody other than Federico.

01:05:24   Like if he asked me to do it again, I have no doubt that we could come to an agreement

01:05:28   that we would both be really happy with and I would do it again because on the whole,

01:05:31   I'm happy that I have this thing that I've made because I think that it's good

01:05:36   and I've heard from a lot of people that have enjoyed it and

01:05:40   you know like I wanted to make this because it would help people like me that

01:05:46   want to consume something but struggle with it and there has been an

01:05:49   interesting side effect of hearing from people that for whatever reason are

01:05:56   unable to read this but are now able to consume it in a way that they can

01:06:01   actually get the information when they've always wanted to but couldn't

01:06:03   that's been like a really nice side effect of this but that doesn't mean that

01:06:08   I want to turn this into a business you know like these are the reasons why

01:06:11   given the opportunity I would consider to do this again but it's not like well

01:06:18   now I want to read every article that anybody ever writes and you know that's

01:06:22   that's not a thing that I want to do but I now know I now know I have this

01:06:26   feather in my cap. Like I know I can make an audio book now. And there are things that I would do

01:06:32   differently if I was ever going to do this again. There were processes that I would have that are

01:06:35   different, but I don't consider this as part of my business. So for audiobooks, you only have eyes

01:06:41   for t.g. That's what you're saying. I think that might be true. Yeah. All right. Well, people should

01:06:47   go check it out. They should. Yeah, there'll be links in the show notes. I really think that this

01:06:51   This is a valuable resource if you work on iOS

01:06:54   or do anything, you just enjoy using iOS.

01:06:56   There's a lot of information in here.

01:06:59   I know that in reading this book,

01:07:00   there were a bunch of things that I found out

01:07:02   about an operating system that I've been using

01:07:04   for three months and had no idea it could do.

01:07:06   Because typically people don't spend

01:07:11   six months of their life devoting themselves

01:07:13   to a thing in the way that Federico does.

01:07:16   So yeah, I think there's a lot of information

01:07:18   that's interesting, I think that it is well produced.

01:07:21   And so it is available for you to go and purchase if you would like to.

01:07:24   And I think that you should.

01:07:25   Yeah. I have to say, I always look forward to Federico's reviews of iOS.

01:07:29   Like he just, he does just do such a, such a great job.

01:07:32   And I find the exact same experience of, Oh,

01:07:36   I've been on the betas for several months and come across information that I did

01:07:40   not know or like details of, Oh, this is a way to do a thing a little,

01:07:43   a little more smoothly. That's why I say, I feel like his,

01:07:46   his reviews are really the definitive reviews.

01:07:50   So also like if you are interested in this kind of stuff,

01:07:52   like I highly recommend them.

01:07:54   And this year you can go listen to Myke

01:07:57   read the audio book version of this review.

01:07:59   Listen to his sultry tones.

01:08:01   Talk about iOS 11.

01:08:03   - The conclusion especially,

01:08:04   I put a lot into the conclusion.

01:08:06   I put on my best conclusion voice.

01:08:09   - I'm not sure what a conclusion voice sounds like.

01:08:15   I'll have to go listen to the conclusion to find out.

01:08:17   - Yeah, it's the only way you're gonna know.

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01:10:24   So Gray, we move on to what some people will consider to be the main event of this episode.

01:10:31   For good reason. I want to talk to you about the iPhone. So there are multiple iPhones.

01:10:39   We have the iPhones 8, the 8 and the 8 Plus, and the iPhone 10.

01:10:45   I want to know what you think about them.

01:10:46   I know you think this is going to be the main event, but I actually don't have a whole lot

01:10:53   of thoughts on this iPhone release.

01:10:55   It's not about what you say, right?

01:10:58   It's about people just want to know.

01:11:00   Including me, because I don't even know what you think about these phones.

01:11:05   So it's not like Gray's about to drop a bomb of knowledge on us all, it's just like, what

01:11:10   do you think about them?

01:11:12   Well, this is the first year in a long time where I didn't even watch the keynote live.

01:11:20   What?

01:11:21   Why?

01:11:22   Yeah.

01:11:23   It's a long story that ends with, I was in the foothills of Bavaria on an internet connection

01:11:30   that was being herded to me bit by bit on the back of sheep. So I was not able to watch

01:11:37   it live. I wasn't even theoretically able to watch it until days later. So this is actually

01:11:44   one keynote event that I have not seen. I've only simply read articles later and then gone

01:11:51   on to Apple's website to take a look at stuff.

01:11:53   So...

01:11:54   >>

01:11:54   If you've looked at the website though, you know what you need to know, right?

01:11:57   Like the website really actually does a better way of displaying the product than the keynote

01:12:01   video does because that's the point of it.

01:12:03   Yeah, it is a thing where I sort of thought like, oh, I'll watch the keynote after.

01:12:09   But this is one case where watching it live is very fun.

01:12:13   Watching it not live...

01:12:15   It's not, yeah.

01:12:16   Watching it not live, I become very aware of...

01:12:22   How to put this...

01:12:23   Even when Apple is going fast, there's a kind of very low information density in a

01:12:34   keynote presentation that I think just...

01:12:37   I'll read some reviews and I'll look on the website and I'll get the

01:12:44   information from there that I need to. So that is how I have consumed the

01:12:48   information about iPhone X and the other iPhones.

01:12:51   There we go, there we go, that's what I was really waiting for.

01:12:55   Okay, so we got that going on.

01:12:57   There's nothing I can do about it everybody.

01:12:59   I will say I wish that it was called the iPhone X.

01:13:01   It's not what it's called.

01:13:03   If there was any question about what Gray was gonna call it, that question has now been

01:13:08   answered.

01:13:09   So…

01:13:10   Well, I mean if you just read it, that seems like the way it should be said.

01:13:14   Well, that's why I constantly stumble over myself now.

01:13:19   Are you-- now, so this is a--

01:13:21   I feel like this is a kind of professional question.

01:13:24   Are you going to on your--

01:13:27   because you, Myke, you're an actual professional tech

01:13:31   person reviewing and talking about things.

01:13:34   I just happen to do this show with you

01:13:36   when we talk about tech, but this is literally your job.

01:13:39   Are you going to make the effort to call it iPhone 10,

01:13:44   Even though you must know in your heart of hearts

01:13:49   that the vast majority of the human population

01:13:52   will forever call this the iPhone X,

01:13:56   like you know that's going to be the case, right?

01:13:58   - Yeah, people that are unaware

01:14:04   will call this thing the iPhone X forever.

01:14:08   - Like the iTouch.

01:14:11   - Worse than that.

01:14:13   and for more reason because it was never called the eye touch like

01:14:17   eye and then touch were never written together like that's just something that people said

01:14:23   and they were wrong and i don't really know why that happened that people just forgot that the

01:14:27   pod existed in between the middle of those two things it was like it was too funny not to say

01:14:33   but people would say it with dead seriousness i don't like that that one that one i did it's not

01:14:39   I don't dislike it because it's wrong, I just think that that sounds ugly.

01:14:42   I touch. But the X, it says it, right? Like that is the letter X. It's what it is, right?

01:14:53   So I understand that people are going to call it the iPhone X. It's why I keep calling it

01:14:58   the iPhone X accidentally. "Exidentally" you could say.

01:15:02   No, we could not say that.

01:15:04   I mean you could, I'm not saying you would want to, I'm just saying that you could say it if you

01:15:09   wanted to. But no, it is the iPhone X and I will call it the iPhone X and I will endeavor to call

01:15:15   it the iPhone X for as long as the iPhone X exists. Because that's the correct pronunciation

01:15:22   of the product, that's what it's called, right? That is what it is. It's like I don't call it

01:15:27   it ifn. Right? Like I don't, you know, it's the iPhone. Right? Like I do my best to say

01:15:33   it the way it's supposed to be said as opposed to how it may look.

01:15:37   Sorry, I could not, I was like, I cannot parse what you think if that was not registering

01:15:42   in my brain. But I'm confused, Myke, because you say wunderlist.

01:15:48   Right, because that's correct. Like it is a product made in Germany. Right? It is wunderlist.

01:15:55   Right, like that is what it is.

01:15:57   What was your other one? You want to say "to doist"?

01:15:59   To doist. I mean, and don't even get me started on this, Gray, because if you ask Siri things about todoist,

01:16:07   I have found in my tests, Siri just wants to do it. Doesn't understand what todoist means.

01:16:14   And I've honestly had people tell me, "Just say it like 'to doist'."

01:16:18   I'm like, "Oh, it's come back to bite me, that one." Right? So there we go. I got that going for me.

01:16:24   So that's what Siri thinks.

01:16:26   So you as a professional, you're going to go for the iPhone X.

01:16:30   I'm going to call it the iPhone X because that's the name of the product.

01:16:33   I was just curious, I just pulled up the Apple webpage

01:16:36   because obviously I know that it's supposed to be called the iPhone X.

01:16:41   I'm going to devote 0% of my brain to trying to do that.

01:16:45   But I was curious to say, let's imagine I hadn't been aware of this

01:16:50   and I wasn't the kind of person who tries to watch the keynote

01:16:52   to watch the keynote and then realizes,

01:16:53   oh, it's super boring when it's not live.

01:16:55   And I just went on to the Apple page

01:16:57   where you can buy the iPhone X

01:17:00   and wanted to see, does it say 10 anywhere on the page?

01:17:04   And as far as I can tell, it does not.

01:17:07   There is nowhere on the page where they write it out

01:17:10   and say the word 10.

01:17:11   No, they wouldn't do that, right?

01:17:12   It's like they never did that for OS X.

01:17:14   Yeah, and that is the reason why I think

01:17:18   It might not have been until maybe 10.5 or 10.6,

01:17:23   like years and years later,

01:17:27   until I even ever first heard someone say OS X on a podcast.

01:17:32   I was shocked because it was a thing that I only,

01:17:35   I'd followed Apple relatively closely,

01:17:37   but at that point in time it had only been

01:17:39   just through like a text-based pre-podcast internet.

01:17:42   I just had never ever heard anybody say the word

01:17:46   of the Mac operating system.

01:17:48   I see, but that was the different thing for me,

01:17:50   is that the majority of time that I was familiar with OS X,

01:17:53   I'd heard it being said, right?

01:17:56   Like I didn't have a time in my life where I was hearing,

01:18:01   or like just reading OS X in my brain

01:18:04   without there being podcasts or videos

01:18:07   or whatever it was I was consuming at the time,

01:18:10   where I would hear people call it OS X.

01:18:13   The other one, which is an interesting example,

01:18:15   is Final Cut, 'cause it's Final Cut Pro.

01:18:17   And I thought Apple's position was that it's Final Cut Pro X.

01:18:21   Like I thought that was the name.

01:18:23   - I believe that is the name.

01:18:25   - But the thing that I'm wondering is,

01:18:28   actually I bought like a professional course

01:18:31   to review some of the details of how that works,

01:18:34   'cause it was kind of like redoubling

01:18:35   my efforts in the program.

01:18:37   And they keep pronouncing it Final Cut 10.

01:18:40   So I wonder if it really is 10 in terms of Apple speak.

01:18:45   It just raises, like, what is Apple's position on Final Cut?

01:18:49   I'd be curious for someone to find in a keynote

01:18:53   where is someone on an Apple stage saying the name

01:18:57   of Final Cut? Do they say X or do they say 10? I now have

01:19:01   enough doubt in my mind that I bet they say 10 when they talk about Final Cut.

01:19:05   So, the new Final Cut Pro X. Although I think it's probably been a long time since Final Cut

01:19:09   has been on center stage at an Apple event, but still.

01:19:13   still. Anyway, I think you're making the correct decision for you as a professional person,

01:19:19   but I think this is going to be such an incredible tidal wave in the opposite direction of everybody

01:19:24   in the world is calling it iPhone X. And I think Apple is 100% to blame for that.

01:19:29   And I would assume that they know this.

01:19:32   So why do you think that they do it then?

01:19:35   I don't know.

01:19:36   I think they didn't want to put the number 10 here, right?

01:19:43   They didn't want it to be iPhone one zero.

01:19:47   I think that they wanted to call it the iPhone 10

01:19:53   because the idea of the phone being from the future,

01:19:57   we have the iPhone eight and the iPhone 10

01:19:59   because this is a phone that is the future's phone today.

01:20:03   And I'm not really sure why they chose the X.

01:20:07   Like, I know why they called it 10.

01:20:09   I think that the reasons for calling it 10 are fine, right?

01:20:12   Like that idea of it being the future.

01:20:14   I can't fully put my finger on why they would choose

01:20:17   the Roman numeral when they've removed

01:20:19   the Roman numeral from the Mac.

01:20:22   Like it's just Mac OS and then a name now.

01:20:25   There were a lot of other options

01:20:27   that Apple could have gone with

01:20:28   with the name of this iPhone,

01:20:29   which wouldn't have been numbers at all,

01:20:31   which also would have worked.

01:20:33   Apple makes interesting choices at naming products.

01:20:36   They always have, they always will.

01:20:38   Most of them don't make sense

01:20:40   when you put them under a microscope.

01:20:42   This one is the same.

01:20:44   Like when you start to really think about it,

01:20:45   like why did they do this?

01:20:47   Because somebody liked the way it looked

01:20:48   on a poster probably.

01:20:49   Like that's probably as far as it goes.

01:20:53   They're like when you go to their website,

01:20:55   what do you see when you go to that page?

01:20:57   A huge colorful X when you go to the page.

01:21:01   I think that was just all they wanted.

01:21:03   like futuristic, weird, it's an X, it's not a number one zero.

01:21:08   Like they wanted to keep, for whatever reason,

01:21:11   they wanted to keep it to be sequential, right?

01:21:13   That there could, in theory, be an iPhone 9 still.

01:21:16   Yeah, I don't know.

01:21:19   I don't think iPhone 9 is going to happen.

01:21:22   I have a hard time imagining.

01:21:23   It depends.

01:21:24   There are a lot of things that have to happen between now and next year

01:21:28   for there not to be an iPhone 9.

01:21:29   And that means that they have to be able to produce

01:21:33   more of these edge-to-edge screen phones which as it looks like right now where we're sitting

01:21:39   at the end of September, it is difficult for Apple to produce them. They're coming out

01:21:43   later and there are lots of rumors of supply chain problems and there are also, you know,

01:21:49   this phone's been heavily rumored as potentially it was supposed to be here last year. So I

01:21:55   don't know. I think that they have to be able to produce this phone at scale maybe in multiple

01:21:59   sizes for there not to be an iPhone 9 next year. And I personally where we sit

01:22:05   right now I think that the jury's out on that one. It's an interesting question.

01:22:11   I expect that the the pre-order and wait period is going to be a real bloodbath

01:22:16   with this. Yep. The kind that we have never seen before. I think

01:22:22   that I think you'll be lucky you will be lucky if you get one of these in 2017. I

01:22:27   I think you will be lucky.

01:22:28   You might be right about that.

01:22:30   The AirPods delay is going to look like nothing compared to this is my expectation.

01:22:34   Yep.

01:22:35   Because there are a lot of people saying that the iPhone 8, whilst it looks like a great

01:22:38   phone, it looks like the people were waiting because they want the latest and greatest

01:22:41   phone, which I get.

01:22:43   I'm in that camp myself.

01:22:45   But I want to know what you think.

01:22:47   What do you think of these phones?

01:22:49   What is your opinion?

01:22:50   What do you want?

01:22:51   Why do you want?

01:22:52   What do you hate?

01:22:54   about these phones interest you or doesn't interest you? Do they at all? Like, what is

01:22:58   your opinion on what's going on here?

01:23:00   I actually decided that I'm just going to get the iPhone 8 this year. Like, um...

01:23:05   Okay. Okay.

01:23:06   Yeah. That's actually not going to happen. No, that's not going to happen at all.

01:23:09   Oh, wow! You have me! You got me, man! I was like... But the thing is, though, great, you

01:23:14   make a lot of really weird decisions when it comes to your iPhone, so like, it wouldn't

01:23:18   have surprised me.

01:23:19   [laughs]

01:23:20   No, I'm not gonna get the eight. I'm going to hold out for the X and I'm hoping to get it this year.

01:23:29   Not in 2018, but depending on how many milliseconds it takes me to fill out my order at the exact

01:23:38   stroke of whatever it is, 10.01 a.m. in San Francisco.

01:23:45   Yeah, it may take a while longer, but I mean I'm interested in the phone. I think it looks really good

01:23:51   but the really the biggest deal for me is is simply that it is a

01:23:57   a new form factor which I

01:24:00   have been I have been unhappy with the form factor from Apple for the last

01:24:07   four years, you know starting with the iPhone 6

01:24:11   Which I really didn't like and I think they've refined and made the design better over time

01:24:17   but I still just the physical size and interaction of the device has never

01:24:22   never been

01:24:24   What I wanted out of a phone and I feel like I've always been

01:24:27   Trading off different amounts of unpleasantness for different advantages. Yep. So

01:24:33   That's why I am more excited about

01:24:36   the

01:24:38   new iPhone than I have been about an iPhone in the past four years. And I can say that's genuinely nice

01:24:44   to feel. Like I'm excited to have a different form factor,

01:24:48   to try it, like I feel like I'm gonna really try to love this phone and really just

01:24:55   get used to its size, and I'm hoping its in-between-y size is better for my personal use.

01:25:03   Like there are, obviously there are a bunch of cool features and interesting things about the phone,

01:25:07   But for me that is that is the number one biggest deal is it is a different

01:25:12   Form factor and and that is what I want to to try out most with this new phone

01:25:18   Yeah, I think that there for people that like the plus people like me and you there are gonna be some interesting trade-offs here

01:25:25   Like what is what is this actually going to be like?

01:25:27   Mm-hmm, but I think that on the whole I'm gonna be happy with this phone

01:25:31   I mean, I will just say let me ask you a quick question. Actually. Do you think it is attractive?

01:25:36   Yeah, I think it's a good-looking phone.

01:25:38   Does the notch bother you?

01:25:39   No, it doesn't. I think this is this is a case where

01:25:43   I'm totally fine with the notch because I understand the like limitations of what they're trying to do.

01:25:50   Mm-hmm.

01:25:51   I can totally understand the reason for making this decision and I think it's fine. Like I'm perfectly acceptable about this.

01:25:58   Yeah.

01:25:58   What I think is a more

01:26:00   interesting

01:26:03   question is

01:26:04   Is Apple going to decide to just stick with this notch as like, "This is what iPhones look like from now on,"

01:26:14   as a almost like a branding decision to distinguish them from other phones?

01:26:19   Or is Apple going to try to get rid of the notch as quickly as possible?

01:26:22   And this is a question I feel like I don't have a really solid opinion on that.

01:26:27   I can blow in the wind either direction based on who's talking to me at that point in time.

01:26:33   I could see Apple saying, "No, we're going to keep this notch there because it will always

01:26:39   allow us to be able to jam in more and more sensors like in this dedicated area."

01:26:44   Or I could see them just getting rid of it as fast as they possibly can.

01:26:47   I don't know.

01:26:48   Like, what do you think about that?

01:26:50   As you can imagine, I do have a very solid opinion on this.

01:26:54   Okay.

01:26:55   I think that they will eventually remove the notch, but they're not going to rush for it.

01:27:03   I would expect that Apple are working as quickly as they can to find ways to do this, but there

01:27:08   is an in-between time which they will embrace. And I believe that over the next few years

01:27:14   they will keep that notch, they may make it smaller, they may change it in shape, but

01:27:17   they will take that space to put more sensors in to make things like Face ID better and

01:27:23   to give themselves some time to work through a lot of that stuff. And I think a good example

01:27:29   of their thinking behind this type of stuff is the Apple Watch. The Apple Watch has had

01:27:34   three revisions now and the case hasn't changed because they have been spending the time to

01:27:39   stuff in what they need to stuff in. You look at the previous iPhone, you know, the iPhone

01:27:44   has had a chin and a forehead, which has been pretty much the same proportions for 10 years,

01:27:49   whilst they were getting everything into the phone that they needed to get into the phone

01:27:53   before they felt like they could push the screen to more towards the edges. I think

01:27:57   I'll do this with the notch.

01:27:58   I think part of the reason the notch is there,

01:28:00   part of the reason that it looks the way it does,

01:28:02   is so Apple can differentiate themselves in the market,

01:28:05   because if they created a phone

01:28:07   that was completely flat on the top,

01:28:08   it would look just like a Samsung,

01:28:10   it would look just like an LG.

01:28:11   And you can love or hate that design,

01:28:13   and that's totally up to you,

01:28:14   and that's why consumer choice exists.

01:28:16   But I think this is part of it,

01:28:18   and I think the reason that they're asking developers

01:28:21   to develop around it, they want people to fill the screen,

01:28:23   is this is the way that Apple wants the iPhone to look.

01:28:26   The outlines that they have of the iPhone on the page,

01:28:31   or literally on their store page,

01:28:33   they show the notch in the outline.

01:28:36   They want the outline of a phone

01:28:39   that they make to look like this.

01:28:41   I've long thought, and I especially noticed this

01:28:43   when I was working in my advertising job,

01:28:47   'cause there would be times when I would have to

01:28:50   buy some stock artwork,

01:28:54   and I would want to buy stock artwork of a smartphone

01:28:58   because I would need it.

01:29:00   All stock artwork of a smartphone looked like an iPhone.

01:29:03   - I definitely ran across that with animation stuff

01:29:06   when I used to use clip art.

01:29:07   It's like, you know what a phone looks like?

01:29:09   It looks like an iPhone.

01:29:10   - Apple created, there is no argument about this,

01:29:14   I will not accept one.

01:29:16   Apple created the defacto image

01:29:19   of how a smartphone with a touchscreen looks.

01:29:22   It is a rectangle with a screen in the middle with some space on the top and

01:29:27   some space on the bottom. And for close to 10 years,

01:29:31   every smartphone had that basic design to it.

01:29:35   They created that design language. Then over the last year or so,

01:29:41   maybe the last two years,

01:29:42   companies like LG and Samsung have created

01:29:46   overall new designs because the screens look different.

01:29:51   the front of the phone doesn't look like an iPhone anymore. They look different. LG created

01:29:57   one that went all the way to the edges, but you could still see the front and then Samsung

01:30:03   created their infinity display where it kind of bleeds off the sides. They created designs

01:30:09   for phones. Now both of these phones look different and the outlines of these phones

01:30:14   look different because companies have found ways to finally push the technology past what

01:30:18   have become the de facto standard. I believe that Apple decided to make some decisions

01:30:25   for this phone. They wanted to have face ID because they wanted to get rid of the touch

01:30:30   ID. They didn't want to put touch ID on the back. So they had to put the cameras in. There

01:30:34   are two decisions. You either make a thin forehead, you just chop off the top, put the

01:30:39   sensors in and you're done. Or you have the screen bleed around the sides in a big way,

01:30:45   in a way that nobody else is doing.

01:30:47   The Essential phone just has a camera in there.

01:30:49   It's a little one in the middle.

01:30:51   Doesn't look like the iPhone.

01:30:52   The iPhone has this big black bar that goes across the top.

01:30:56   I think that they decided that they wanted to create

01:30:59   what they believe their smartphones are gonna look like

01:31:02   for potentially the next 10 years.

01:31:05   This is the design they chose for that

01:31:07   because whether you love them or hate them,

01:31:10   Apple are sometimes the biggest,

01:31:13   sometimes second biggest handset manufacturer.

01:31:16   They have to make a design that they think

01:31:18   makes sense for them.

01:31:19   And they moved away from the chin and forehead

01:31:21   and they went for the notch.

01:31:23   This is the iPhone.

01:31:25   This is what they believe the future of phones

01:31:27   is gonna look like.

01:31:28   And this might be what ends up being stock photography

01:31:31   in five years, but what will probably be,

01:31:33   it would look something more like an LG.

01:31:35   But Apple decided they didn't wanna look like

01:31:39   what a phone looks like.

01:31:41   they've made their phone look weird and different in its own way.

01:31:46   Well I think of, I always like seeing little signs that say like "No cell phones allowed"

01:31:51   like if you know in various places.

01:31:53   And it's just it's always interesting to see like what is chosen as that little symbol

01:31:58   and I would say in many public places in a city it's still overwhelmingly the 1990s cell

01:32:06   phone like a little keyboard with a wire sticking up on the side.

01:32:09   I just think is funny and aachronistic in this way.

01:32:14   Like an icon for what a phone looks like is a phone that nobody has used in forever.

01:32:20   And then you do see places that use the iPhone-looking phone.

01:32:24   Like a no phone's allowed symbol or like here's the thing for your phone.

01:32:28   But there is an interesting thing that I will give Samsung that their phones are

01:32:34   I don't know how to put it more elegant or more simple in their design,

01:32:39   but you do run into the problem that you can't just use a rectangle as a symbol for a phone.

01:32:46   It has to have something that's a little bit more recognizable than just a rectangle if you're talking about very simple iconography.

01:32:54   And so it is, I do think it's an interesting question of like, what will

01:32:58   the thing that is the outline of the phone with the notch, like will that start showing up as a generic

01:33:04   symbol for phones

01:33:06   In the same way that the like clearly an iPhone of the past showed up everywhere as a generic symbol for phones

01:33:12   I don't know, but I'm I'm willing to bet that at the very least a

01:33:17   Standard rectangle with nothing to distinguish it is not going to show up as an icon for a phone

01:33:23   Because it is not iconic enough. There is nothing to identify it and this is where I wonder if Apple is deciding

01:33:29   To just stick with it

01:33:32   Because I do think that it does give you the advantage of having a space where you can always stick new sensors and new stuff

01:33:43   without having to worry about how does this interact through a screen that isn't display.

01:33:48   They have given themselves some leeway.

01:33:52   Yeah, and it's like, you know, even if let's say we had the technology to put all of the stuff underneath a screen right now,

01:33:59   you don't necessarily know what other sensors you might want to add.

01:34:03   And there's no doubt that the question of, "Can you add a sensor?"

01:34:08   versus "Can you add that sensor also underneath a screen?"

01:34:12   the second thing is harder to do.

01:34:14   And so if you leave yourself space,

01:34:18   you can potentially put stuff in sooner than you otherwise could

01:34:22   if you also had to figure out how to get it under a screen.

01:34:26   I wouldn't be surprised if they keep the notch around, but that said, I wouldn't be surprised if in three years Apple says, "Oh the hell with that, we're just going all screen as well."

01:34:35   I really don't have a strong opinion on this one, but I am glad that we're in a phase where it is fun and interesting speculation time about what Apple's up to.

01:34:47   As opposed to, "Oh, it's the iPhone 6 again." But just with some changes.

01:34:53   changes. And the iPhone 8 looks like a great phone. Like the iPhone 8 looks like a better

01:34:58   revision than the 7 from the 6. Oh yeah. But it is being completely overshadowed.

01:35:04   Yeah. I'll put it in air quotes, the wireless charging. I think that is a really great

01:35:10   addition and that's a thing that I'm looking forward to. And I am also really glad that

01:35:15   Apple put the wireless charging in the 8 because I feel like anything Apple can do to push

01:35:23   that farther and faster with adoption everywhere, like everybody benefits from that and that's

01:35:30   great.

01:35:31   Choosing an open standard is a surprise but awesome move.

01:35:34   I'm very happy to see Apple choose an industry standard with Qi charging, like that's great

01:35:41   As opposed to, like I don't want to go into a Starbucks and there's the pad for Apple

01:35:46   devices and there's the pad for everything else.

01:35:48   Like, ugh.

01:35:49   Don't need that.

01:35:50   Like anything we can do to make charging easier and everywhere, that's great.

01:35:56   So like I am super glad that they're putting the wireless charging in the device that's

01:36:01   going to sell way more just to like encourage the spread of that faster.

01:36:05   So are you going to be waiting?

01:36:06   Are you going to be putting in an order?

01:36:08   What do you mean, for the iPhone 8?

01:36:10   - For the iPhone X.

01:36:12   - Oh yeah, no, of course for the iPhone X, without a doubt.

01:36:16   I would like it in my hands as soon as possible,

01:36:19   but I am mentally preparing myself for the notion

01:36:23   that this may take forever.

01:36:24   - Yeah, you may just be going to Apple stores

01:36:27   and fondling them for a while.

01:36:29   - Yeah, exactly.

01:36:29   Like, do you mind if I just use your phone in the store

01:36:32   for several hours?

01:36:34   Can I set it up?

01:36:35   Like, no, you can't do that, so you have to put it down.

01:36:37   Like, oh.

01:36:38   or like I did when the iPad Pro came out

01:36:41   and I was trying to ask the Apple employees,

01:36:43   can I buy your store display of the pencil off of you?

01:36:47   And they're like, no, you can't,

01:36:48   we have to leave the pencils here.

01:36:49   So I'm very excited about it,

01:36:53   but I'm preparing myself in advance for it's like,

01:36:56   well, it's going to be a long time until the pre-order

01:36:59   and get ready for a longer time of actually waiting

01:37:04   for it to really ship.

01:37:05   - The waiting is the hardest part.

01:37:07   Yes, the waiting is the hardest part.

01:37:09   There's gonna be a lot of sad Christmas trees, I think, this year.

01:37:13   I'm not looking forward to it. You know, if you think that my delivery woes today were one thing,

01:37:19   boy oh boy, that's gonna be something else.

01:37:22   Something else.