Cortex

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hello Myke. Hi. Still traveling? Yeah I'm in Memphis, Tennessee right now.

00:00:04 ◼   ► I've been in New York, I've been in DC, I've been in Virginia.

00:00:08 ◼   ► And I still have New York left again. Ooh.

00:00:12 ◼   ► You are in the midst of travel. I am on like a serious CGP Grey

00:00:16 ◼   ► vision quest right now I think. Vision quest? I like this.

00:00:20 ◼   ► This is how, what I imagine they all are, right? You just

00:00:24 ◼   ► when you go on your graycations, that you're just going out to have the epiphany

00:00:28 ◼   ► that will then carry you through the next five years, which I assume is what happens every time.

00:00:32 ◼   ► I like this, I like this. My most recent travel, if any travel I have ever done was a vision quest,

00:00:37 ◼   ► this most recent trip was a vision quest. So I like this, I'm taking this on board.

00:00:40 ◼   ► But what I'm, I want to know, what I'm slightly concerned about is,

00:00:45 ◼   ► you've been traveling all over the place. Yep, two and a half weeks.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Two and a half weeks. What's the laundry situation like, Myke?

00:00:53 ◼   ► Laundry has been done twice.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Is the situation.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Before I divulge the circumstances under which I have received clean clothes,

00:01:03 ◼   ► I just want to just touch upon the...

00:01:07 ◼   ► We have more than a handful of listeners to this show.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Do you want to say how many listeners we have to the show, Myke?

00:01:13 ◼   ► No, we have lots.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Lots of people.

00:01:16 ◼   ► And we get lots of feedback for this show.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Like, undoubtedly.

00:01:20 ◼   ► We get lots of feedback and it's great.

00:01:21 ◼   ► And I love that our listeners respect the methods in which the feedback should be sent,

00:01:26 ◼   ► which is Reddit and Twitter. Like, I love that. And thank you to everybody that does that.

00:01:30 ◼   ► You make our lives so much easier by not sending us email.

00:01:33 ◼   ► I also feel like we have a real solutions-oriented audience.

00:01:37 ◼   ► Oh yeah, people are very good at sending suggestions for Grey to use OneNote.

00:01:43 ◼   ► That's solut- oh man, I loved the Reddit last time people were explaining it to you over again.

00:01:50 ◼   ► Bravo to anybody that did that like I love you so much. That was so funny

00:01:54 ◼   ► But I've received more feedback about doing laundry

00:01:58 ◼   ► Than one I ever expected in my life and two more than maybe most things we've ever gotten about this show

00:02:05 ◼   ► I have learned more about doing laundry in New York City than I think most people that live in New York

00:02:10 ◼   ► No, like so many ways like laundromats that I can use laundromats that will do this stuff for me

00:02:17 ◼   ► There are apparently entire services created with apps in New York to deal with the laundry situation of people in New York

00:02:25 ◼   ► It feels like New York has a particular laundry problem that I haven't worked out yet that like there are there needs to be so many

00:02:32 ◼   ► Solutions but there are like apps that you can use and they will come and pick it up and they'll do it and bring it back

00:02:38 ◼   ► Oh, that's fantastic. I know

00:02:40 ◼   ► There are also a couple of people that suggested washing my clothes in the sink

00:02:45 ◼   ► That's never a thing. I'm gonna do no

00:02:47 ◼   ► I just want to let everyone know this like so many things have to happen before I will wash my clothes in a sink

00:02:54 ◼   ► box of

00:02:56 ◼   ► detergent I really never want to do that because that just feels like I don't know like I feel like when I get to that situation

00:03:02 ◼   ► I've exhausted all other options and

00:03:05 ◼   ► There are so many more things I would want to try before washing them in the sink including like

00:03:12 ◼   ► Going to a laundromat on my own and getting it all wrong. Like I would do that before I wash them in a hotel sink

00:03:16 ◼   ► I just don't want to do that

00:03:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I know

00:03:20 ◼   ► That I have on occasion

00:03:23 ◼   ► washed clothes in a hotel sink I

00:03:26 ◼   ► Cannot remember the details

00:03:28 ◼   ► But it was exactly this that it's like I would only do this under the most dire of circumstances

00:03:34 ◼   ► But there is no other option left

00:03:36 ◼   ► I feel like most times that anybody would ever do this is a time that they can't remember the details like something terrible has happened

00:03:44 ◼   ► And now all they the only option they have left to them is

00:03:50 ◼   ► To pour some powder into a sink and like smoosh it around with your hand because I just feel like yeah

00:03:56 ◼   ► It's not efficient. Like it's not effective

00:03:58 ◼   ► I can feel like that that is a not effective way of washing the clothes either

00:04:01 ◼   ► So I feel like that I would try other things first

00:04:04 ◼   ► Yeah, it's I'm trying to remember. What are the worst laundry situations I've ever had while traveling and it's like

00:04:09 ◼   ► I can't remember the details of why I wash clothes in a sink

00:04:12 ◼   ► I know I've thrown out clothes on a trip because it's just like oh, this is terrible

00:04:18 ◼   ► Like I'm not even gonna try to wash these clothes

00:04:20 ◼   ► But I can't remember why I ever wash it in a sink, but it's not a good solution. It's not a good solution

00:04:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like I would be more inclined to go to like a supermarket and buy really cheap replacement clothes

00:04:31 ◼   ► first, you know? But anyway, I'm sure that there are many reasons like for example

00:04:36 ◼   ► Let's imagine that I was going on a really important business meeting and I somehow spilt ketchup on my t-shirt

00:04:41 ◼   ► or like on my button-down shirt and it's the only one that I have and I'm like in a pinch and I'm just gonna go

00:04:47 ◼   ► To the sink and use some salt like, you know to get a little stain out or something

00:04:50 ◼   ► I totally get that but the idea of me taking two weeks of clothes and throwing them in the bathtub as a way to attempt

00:04:56 ◼   ► to wash my clothes

00:04:57 ◼   ► That just doesn't feel like something that I want to do like it just because where are they gonna dry?

00:05:02 ◼   ► Like I don't have any way of doing this

00:05:05 ◼   ► Like I totally get that someone might do it for one item of clothing one time because of a disaster

00:05:10 ◼   ► But I was talking like I'm talking about all of the clothes that I have for like ten days

00:05:15 ◼   ► Turning them over and I feel like washing them in the sink is not the way to do that. It doesn't scale so

00:05:22 ◼   ► Okay, look against all advice that I have received

00:05:27 ◼   ► Except from you.

00:05:29 ◼   ► All of the advice...

00:05:30 ◼   ► I was gonna say, I think except from me.

00:05:32 ◼   ► All of the advice that I received, people told me to use any other solution than getting my clothes washed and laundered by the hotel.

00:05:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I do want to specify that. I think I was clear in the last episode that getting it washed by the hotel is the laziest option.

00:05:51 ◼   ► This is why it is also my first choice, is laziness.

00:05:56 ◼   ► Okay, and this is why I did it because this so I I in New York City, I have my clothes

00:06:02 ◼   ► laundered by the hotel. I did that. The reason that I did this is like is there's there's

00:06:08 ◼   ► multiple little reasons that all that are up to just laziness. It was the middle of

00:06:12 ◼   ► the week, I realized that I my planning had not been good and I ran out of clothes quicker

00:06:17 ◼   ► than I expected. Yep. So it was like the middle of the week that I was in New York had already

00:06:20 ◼   ► been in America for nearly 10 days at this point. I ran out of clothes faster than expected.

00:06:26 ◼   ► because also the weather wasn't as I planned it for so I needed to have my

00:06:31 ◼   ► clothes washed. I was heading out to a meeting and it would have just been so

00:06:37 ◼   ► much easier for me to have the clothes completed by the time that I returned in

00:06:42 ◼   ► the evening. Rather than having to somehow find a space in either that day

00:06:46 ◼   ► or the next day and then like needing to wear dirty clothes and it just was like

00:06:50 ◼   ► I'm just going to get it done by the hotel.

00:06:53 ◼   ► This was a mistake.

00:06:54 ◼   ► This was a big mistake.

00:06:57 ◼   ► Did they not clean your clothes?

00:06:58 ◼   ► They cleaned them great.

00:06:59 ◼   ► Uh, I put a picture in our show notes, which I will also include for our

00:07:04 ◼   ► listeners of how the clothes were returned for me.

00:07:06 ◼   ► Oh yes.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Look at that.

00:07:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:08 ◼   ► You got, you get the nice little wrapped box with blue ribbon on them, which was

00:07:11 ◼   ► very nice.

00:07:12 ◼   ► You know why you get your clothes in a little box with ribbons around it?

00:07:16 ◼   ► Because of how much they charge you great.

00:07:18 ◼   ► So it feels fancy.

00:07:21 ◼   ► And you know what?

00:07:22 ◼   ► This is a trick that totally works on me

00:07:23 ◼   ► every time I have it done in a hotel.

00:07:25 ◼   ► My hotel, like when the laundry comes back

00:07:28 ◼   ► in the little box with some tissue paper around it,

00:07:31 ◼   ► I think, ooh, look at this.

00:07:32 ◼   ► - I got to feel like a Mr. Fancy Pants when I came back.

00:07:35 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:07:35 ◼   ► - That was until I take the first box off the top

00:07:39 ◼   ► and I am left with the bill.

00:07:41 ◼   ► So leading up to this point, a couple of things occurred.

00:07:46 ◼   ► So you have to complete the the order yourself.

00:07:49 ◼   ► You top up all the things that you're giving to them, give them a total.

00:07:52 ◼   ► And then you add it all up. Right.

00:07:54 ◼   ► How many socks, how many shirts?

00:07:55 ◼   ► Yeah. One problem that I had is there was no T-shirts entry on this form.

00:08:00 ◼   ► So I went with undershirts

00:08:04 ◼   ► as a thing, because I figured that's the closest to a T-shirt.

00:08:08 ◼   ► Like this isn't a button down shirt.

00:08:10 ◼   ► You don't need to be careful with it.

00:08:11 ◼   ► You don't need to fold it in any specific way.

00:08:13 ◼   ► So I figured I'll go with undershirts.

00:08:16 ◼   ► the hotel decided that they would class them as t-shirts and then create a price entry

00:08:21 ◼   ► which is about twice the amount. So when I was filling out the form it was already expensive

00:08:30 ◼   ► but when it came back it was far too expensive and of course these forms say whatever we

00:08:37 ◼   ► We say, you pay, effectively.

00:08:40 ◼   ► So I am embarrassed, very embarrassed by the amount of money that I had to spend getting

00:08:50 ◼   ► my laundry done.

00:08:51 ◼   ► I have learned a very valuable life lesson and I also think that the majority of my clothes

00:08:59 ◼   ► were ever so slightly smaller than when they were sent off and of course the form also

00:09:05 ◼   ► says, "Yolo, that might happen, right?" Like, might shrink a little bit. So...

00:09:11 ◼   ► Right, they bear no responsibility for the laundry that they are cleaning.

00:09:14 ◼   ► So I will stand with my arms extended, like out to my sides to our listeners and say,

00:09:22 ◼   ► "You were right, and I was wrong, and I am stupid for doing this." Because I spent

00:09:30 ◼   ► an embarrassing amount of money to have my clothes slightly shrunk.

00:09:35 ◼   ► That's what I did and I will never do this again.

00:09:38 ◼   ► I haven't worked out what I'm going to do.

00:09:41 ◼   ► Well, OK, I will never do this again for the amount of clothes that I did it for.

00:09:46 ◼   ► Hmm. Right. OK.

00:09:49 ◼   ► So if I have like a shirt that needs to be ironed and pressed and all that,

00:09:54 ◼   ► I may pay $10 to get that done.

00:09:56 ◼   ► But like I had a week's worth of clothes cleaned.

00:09:59 ◼   ► I'm never going to do that again by the hotel unless like if I need to do it.

00:10:05 ◼   ► So in my hotel's time going to next, I will check the prices.

00:10:08 ◼   ► And if it's very cheap for some silly reason, it's not going to be.

00:10:12 ◼   ► But it's never going to be.

00:10:13 ◼   ► It's never it's never going to be.

00:10:15 ◼   ► After this, I started looking into a little bit more like why is it the price that it is?

00:10:19 ◼   ► And it turns out because business people get this stuff done

00:10:23 ◼   ► and just charge it to their company and then they're good to go.

00:10:26 ◼   ► Right. Because it's all expenses based.

00:10:28 ◼   ► so nobody cares how much it costs.

00:10:30 ◼   ► Is Relay going to be covering the cost of your laundry, Myke?

00:10:33 ◼   ► There is no way that I would present this bill to my company purely because it would

00:10:38 ◼   ► be laughed at and I would never receive the money.

00:10:45 ◼   ► I don't know, Myke. I just... This is the lazy option. The lazy option, as is so always

00:10:51 ◼   ► the case, the expensive option.

00:10:54 ◼   ► I expected that.

00:10:55 ◼   ► Right? I expected it to be more expensive.

00:10:59 ◼   ► - So now, I guess what I need to know here, Myke,

00:11:02 ◼   ► is what's the number?

00:11:04 ◼   ► Because I feel like you're squirmy and evasive

00:11:08 ◼   ► over the microphone.

00:11:09 ◼   ► - I can't do it, Gray.

00:11:10 ◼   ► I cannot tell the world the amount of money this cost me.

00:11:15 ◼   ► I can't do it.

00:11:15 ◼   ► - You have a real emotional attachment

00:11:19 ◼   ► to the cost of your laundry here, Myke.

00:11:20 ◼   ► - It's the embarrassment of it.

00:11:22 ◼   ► It's not the--

00:11:23 ◼   ► but I feel like you need to cleanse your soul of this number.

00:11:27 ◼   ► I'll tell you. So I want to just tell you, okay, I had maybe seven t-shirts, a pair of shorts,

00:11:34 ◼   ► maybe six or seven pairs of undershorts as they were named, which I found funny,

00:11:38 ◼   ► and like a handful of socks and one button-down shirt. That was kind of the

00:11:42 ◼   ► total amount of items that I had cleaned.

00:11:45 ◼   ► Okay.

00:11:46 ◼   ► All right, are you ready?

00:11:47 ◼   ► I'm ready.

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00:13:32 ◼   ► Casper for their support of this show. Yeah, I don't know. It's getting your laundry done

00:13:36 ◼   ► in New York. I don't think that seems too crazy. I can't tell people the amount of money.

00:13:43 ◼   ► Look, Myke, if you need to, you can bleep that out, right?

00:13:46 ◼   ► But you also have the problem that, what I didn't specify last time when I was giving you the advice about do the laundry at the hotel,

00:13:53 ◼   ► I'm used to really big numbers here because I'm always the guy doing the rush job with the laundry.

00:13:59 ◼   ► Because when I'm traveling, I feel like this, again, this for me is one of these cases where

00:14:03 ◼   ► when I am traveling, especially in the last couple of years, it is largely for business or for a particular purpose.

00:14:10 ◼   ► and I feel like my time is valuable in a place and also I just can't deal with the details of anything

00:14:16 ◼   ► and so I am often in the situation where I have totally forgotten about laundry until the last possible second

00:14:22 ◼   ► and then not only am I filling out their ridiculously mafioso monopoly expensive form about how much the laundry is going to cost

00:14:30 ◼   ► I also tick the box which says "I need it as soon as you can"

00:14:35 ◼   ► Which as far as I can tell just gives them a license to write whatever number they can in the in the little laundry

00:14:41 ◼   ► Okay, so I really wish I would have been given this little piece of information

00:14:44 ◼   ► Because the thing is I agree with everything you say I think that

00:14:49 ◼   ► Part of the reason we're able to have these conversations is I agree with that logic, right?

00:14:54 ◼   ► Like I had stuff to do I didn't have the time which is why I got it done in the first place

00:14:58 ◼   ► But I just don't think that I was mentally prepared for the amount of money. This is gonna cost me

00:15:03 ◼   ► me. If I have bleeped the amount of money out, dear listener, just understand that I

00:15:13 ◼   ► just don't want you to think bad of me, right? Understand that I was a man caught out by

00:15:19 ◼   ► a system in which he could not control and he did something silly and he's never going

00:15:26 ◼   ► to do it again and we can all make mistakes because now I have done more washing and I

00:15:31 ◼   ► I have completed that washing in the home of my co-founder and I have used really weird

00:15:36 ◼   ► machines that American people have.

00:15:40 ◼   ► For example, we were talking about doing, Stephen was helping me with his washing machine

00:15:45 ◼   ► and I was like, yeah, I usually set it to 30 degrees.

00:15:47 ◼   ► He's like, I can't, I have no idea.

00:15:49 ◼   ► I can't help you.

00:15:50 ◼   ► This machine doesn't go by temperature.

00:15:54 ◼   ► And like just things like how to, when I was loading the washing machine, water was already

00:15:58 ◼   ► in the machine.

00:15:59 ◼   ► What is this voodoo?

00:16:00 ◼   ► I don't understand. Like, I put with my washing machine, everything goes in, I close the door,

00:16:07 ◼   ► I choose the temperature, and I press go, and then it starts. I was adding laundry to

00:16:11 ◼   ► a machine that was already in motion.

00:16:13 ◼   ► Oh yeah, okay. I got, yeah, it's one of those top loading agitators. Yeah, I know that.

00:16:19 ◼   ► This is what I can't understand. Like, I just, I don't, this is what I knew was going to

00:16:23 ◼   ► happen to me if I tried to do it on my own, that I would be faced with by one of these

00:16:27 ◼   ► machines that I don't understand how to use.

00:16:29 ◼   ► No, it's great. It's like a cement mixer. You can just keep throwing more stuff in as

00:16:33 ◼   ► the laundry machine goes. It's fantastic.

00:16:36 ◼   ► Do you understand, like I'm sure you have used a European style machine, or like machines

00:16:42 ◼   ► I'm sure they exist in America.

00:16:44 ◼   ► I have one not five feet away from where I'm recording this podcast.

00:16:48 ◼   ► But do you see why I've been apprehensive about this? Because it's effectively using

00:16:53 ◼   ► a machine type that I've never used before for the only clothes that I own here, right?

00:16:59 ◼   ► Like I'm putting everything that I can wear into a machine I don't understand.

00:17:03 ◼   ► You seem to have some psychological issues around laundry. While I'm happy to make fun

00:17:07 ◼   ► of you publicly and privately for these laundry issues that you seem to have, I also again

00:17:14 ◼   ► totally get it that this is the kind of thing that when you're traveling is more anxiety

00:17:18 ◼   ► inducing than it would be otherwise. It's not something that you really want to deal

00:17:22 ◼   ► with because you have other things that you're doing and you just like little things that

00:17:28 ◼   ► are different can be surprisingly derailing when you're traveling so I will make fun of

00:17:33 ◼   ► you but I am also underneath I am sympathetic.

00:17:36 ◼   ► Because it's like I'm not a Luddite. I can work these things out but it is the idea of

00:17:42 ◼   ► like I just want it to be done and I don't want anything to go wrong right this is the

00:17:49 ◼   ► So I don't know how I'm going to wash my clothes

00:17:52 ◼   ► for the rest of my trip when I'm back in New York,

00:17:55 ◼   ► but I know I'm not using the hotel.

00:17:57 ◼   ► Next up, I'm gonna look into these services

00:18:00 ◼   ► that will apparently come and collect my clothes.

00:18:02 ◼   ► 'Cause people tell me that this stuff is not as expensive

00:18:05 ◼   ► as it might seem to be.

00:18:06 ◼   ► So what I know is it's not gonna be more expensive

00:18:09 ◼   ► than getting it done in the hotel.

00:18:11 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, like an app sounds fantastic for laundry.

00:18:14 ◼   ► And that also seems the case of,

00:18:17 ◼   ► There is actual competition there which could drive down the prices

00:18:21 ◼   ► And there's also economies of scale that a hotel doesn't have in the same way for doing the laundry

00:18:25 ◼   ► So this this this seems great

00:18:28 ◼   ► I remember vaguely wondering if there were

00:18:30 ◼   ► apps that could do your laundry for you and it sounds like they exist in New York at the very least and

00:18:35 ◼   ► I will I will probably look after this podcast to see if they exist in London. I think they do actually

00:18:40 ◼   ► Amazing so

00:18:43 ◼   ► Part of all of this why the laundry is such a big thing

00:18:46 ◼   ► is, it's like disruption to my life whilst I am in a situation where I'm in a place for

00:18:55 ◼   ► work, you know? What we have lovingly referred to as "grecations". Like I'm here in different

00:19:00 ◼   ► places and I have my regular work commitments to keep up with plus additional things that

00:19:06 ◼   ► I'm doing. I've decided that I would like to refer to this in my parlance as a "hurly

00:19:11 ◼   ► You have your gradations and I have my early days. That's how they work.

00:19:17 ◼   ► And so that's what I have been on over the last couple of weeks and this is still going to continue.

00:19:21 ◼   ► But during these times, like you, I don't have my usual things around me.

00:19:27 ◼   ► So when I have to deal with what would be a chore, like my regular chores,

00:19:33 ◼   ► I want it to be easy because I don't have my way of doing it.

00:19:38 ◼   ► like my muscle memory, just the things I don't have to think about. I don't want them to

00:19:43 ◼   ► be things I now have to think about because I'm already adding additional work into my

00:19:48 ◼   ► life by being here. It's one of the reasons I'm here. I don't want to then have to add

00:19:53 ◼   ► this whole other layer of like relearning how to do things that I already know how to

00:19:59 ◼   ► do. Right?

00:20:00 ◼   ► B: Yeah, well, when you're traveling, you have less ability to deal with disruption,

00:20:05 ◼   ► if you change countries. Like I was traveling in Germany a while ago and a couple things

00:20:11 ◼   ► came up that I need to do some essentially some errand type things and realize immediately

00:20:16 ◼   ► I have no idea what stores to go to to accomplish these errands, right? Whereas in London it'd

00:20:21 ◼   ► be like, "Oh, I just need to pop into a Boots, right? I can just do this or I'll go to a Walgreens

00:20:26 ◼   ► in America," right?

00:20:27 ◼   ► I love that you use Boots because to an American this is like it's like the most English sounding

00:20:31 ◼   ► store that our equivalent of Walmart is called Boots. That's what it's called. We have

00:20:38 ◼   ► Boots.

00:20:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I'd say that it's a Walgreens equivalent.

00:20:42 ◼   ► Okay. Yeah, no, Wal-Mart. I get those confused because they have the exact same start to

00:20:46 ◼   ► their name. It's Walgreens. Like, it's like a big chemist that also does some other

00:20:50 ◼   ► stuff.

00:20:51 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. It's the miscellaneous store that has a whole bunch of stuff. And yeah,

00:20:56 ◼   ► so I remember I was just in Germany, like, I have no idea where to go for a bunch of

00:21:01 ◼   ► these tiny items that I know would be all together out of boots but now this is turning

00:21:06 ◼   ► into a big hassle. I was like, "How do I search on maps for where to buy Q-tips? I don't understand

00:21:12 ◼   ► how do I find this piece of information?"

00:21:14 ◼   ► I cannot search for the contents of a store in Google Maps.

00:21:21 ◼   ► That is what I want. I need scotch tape. Where do I acquire this item? I have no idea.

00:21:28 ◼   ► These are the types of things I just don't want to do.

00:21:31 ◼   ► Plus it kind of like just makes things more difficult.

00:21:34 ◼   ► And I have had something happen to me, Gray, which has ruined all of my systems and I don't

00:21:40 ◼   ► know what to do.

00:21:42 ◼   ► I have lost two button-down shirts somehow on this trip.

00:21:47 ◼   ► Now this is not the end of the world.

00:21:51 ◼   ► When I go back to New York, I'm going to go to a store and I'm going to buy myself a new

00:21:54 ◼   ► shirt.

00:21:55 ◼   ► problem is I didn't know I had lost them. I'm supposed to have a system that prevents this.

00:22:01 ◼   ► The system has failed. What do you count your shirts out and in of your suitcase every time?

00:22:08 ◼   ► I have a packing system, right? Like I have a system of packing and when I leave a hotel

00:22:13 ◼   ► a system of checking. And one of those has failed me to the point where I have lost two-thirds of

00:22:20 ◼   ► of the shirts that I brought with me.

00:22:22 ◼   ► And I don't know how this happened

00:22:25 ◼   ► because I have a memory

00:22:27 ◼   ► of not removing them from my suitcase.

00:22:30 ◼   ► So where are they?

00:22:32 ◼   ► Right, like I have been honestly losing my mind

00:22:35 ◼   ► about this over the last couple of days

00:22:36 ◼   ► because I cannot work out where they are.

00:22:40 ◼   ► Plus I have this whole conspiracy theory thing

00:22:42 ◼   ► going on as well.

00:22:43 ◼   ► - Oh, okay, okay.

00:22:45 ◼   ► Well, I mean, before--

00:22:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:22:47 ◼   ► Like before we get to your conspiracy theory,

00:22:50 ◼   ► I think it is good advice for anybody traveling that you just assume that as you move around

00:22:59 ◼   ► you leave behind you a detritus of the objects that you have brought with you.

00:23:04 ◼   ► And it's impossible to track them perfectly.

00:23:06 ◼   ► Like you always leave stuff behind.

00:23:09 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

00:23:10 ◼   ► It just happens.

00:23:11 ◼   ► I know this is the case but I—

00:23:12 ◼   ► There's like shirts—

00:23:13 ◼   ► The reason this is concerning for me—

00:23:15 ◼   ► Pants.

00:23:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:17 ◼   ► People.

00:23:18 ◼   ► Sometimes you leave them behind.

00:23:19 ◼   ► that that's not a thing. The reason this is concerning for me is because the

00:23:24 ◼   ► system in which I use to ensure that I have packed my clothing is the same

00:23:29 ◼   ► system in which I use to ensure that I've packed everything. And on this trip

00:23:33 ◼   ► I have a lot of relatively expensive audio equipment that is not easy to

00:23:38 ◼   ► replace in a flash. I may not realize I have lost something in this whole setup

00:23:44 ◼   ► up until it is too late and I am about to record a show. So like this is my concern,

00:23:51 ◼   ► right? It's not that I have lost the shirts because shirts are replaceable easily and also I can just

00:23:57 ◼   ► wear something else, right? Like I'm fine but it is the concern that I have now that my system and

00:24:03 ◼   ► my mental models of making sure I have packed everything have failed me and that could result

00:24:08 ◼   ► in the losing of something more important. When I am only halfway through this and I have lost a

00:24:13 ◼   ► significant amount of things already. What's your plan of action?

00:24:18 ◼   ► Something else may be lost, Gray, and I just don't know what it is yet!

00:24:21 ◼   ► I mean you'll find out in an inconvenient moment, but what is your,

00:24:24 ◼   ► what's your plan of action here, Myke? I don't have one. Okay. Did your system

00:24:29 ◼   ► involve touching each of the shirts and counting them as you packed and unpacked

00:24:34 ◼   ► them? Well no, because I didn't have a number associated to these things, so

00:24:38 ◼   ► maybe now I need to do that, but it's already too late now, right? Because I can

00:24:42 ◼   ► count the number of things that I have but it doesn't mean I have everything.

00:24:45 ◼   ► This is the problem. I can only fix this for the next time I leave home. For where

00:24:51 ◼   ► I am now, I can count everything that I have and it will help me for the rest of

00:24:54 ◼   ► the trip, but I can't count what's already lost and who knows what's lost.

00:24:58 ◼   ► It could be everything.

00:25:00 ◼   ► I think it's very unlikely that it's everything, Myke. I think you have a suitcase full of things.

00:25:04 ◼   ► I live with Shoding a suitcase right now.

00:25:06 ◼   ► I feel like you have been traveling too long. This is a very long trip for you

00:25:12 ◼   ► and you are spiraling out of control. That's what this is. I feel like I'm listening to a man on the

00:25:22 ◼   ► edge and it's like, "Oh poor Myke, he was not meant to travel by himself for this long."

00:25:26 ◼   ► I don't know if I was supposed to. I don't know how you felt the first time you did this,

00:25:33 ◼   ► but I have ramped up significantly. The most I've ever been away is like a week at a time,

00:25:38 ◼   ► and I went for five. I feel like I maybe went...

00:25:42 ◼   ► I hurtled towards the sun, Gray, and I think I got burnt a little bit along the way.

00:25:47 ◼   ► I can't say that I'm too surprised, because...

00:25:52 ◼   ► We have had some conversations about our various, like, relations with people, like, and socializing and all the rest of this, and...

00:26:01 ◼   ► You have always said things that make me think, like, maybe you shouldn't be alone for a really long time.

00:26:07 ◼   ► time you're like oh you've asked me oh don't get lonely so I haven't been

00:26:11 ◼   ► spending the amount of time alone you spend we'll talk about that in a bit but

00:26:15 ◼   ► like the way that I have structured these trips I'm not alone so much mm-hmm

00:26:18 ◼   ► it's just away from my usual norms I think is the problem for me and I've

00:26:24 ◼   ► ever done it five weeks is too much you're a creature of habit then perhaps

00:26:29 ◼   ► yeah maybe and you're all frazzled at the edges you've got your first sticking

00:26:34 ◼   ► up in funny directions like you're all ungroomed and missing two shirts.

00:26:38 ◼   ► I was fine until the shirts. The shirts were what pushed me over the edge because now it's

00:26:43 ◼   ► like the things that I think are written down and set in stone they're failing me now and

00:26:48 ◼   ► so now I don't know what to do.

00:26:50 ◼   ► I'm just worried that you're gonna like in another week you're gonna be like an obsessive

00:26:55 ◼   ► compulsive vampire constantly counting and recounting all of the things in your suitcase

00:27:00 ◼   ► but I don't know what to tell you man because you've got another two weeks to go.

00:27:03 ◼   ► I enjoyed your choice of vampire. That was good. It's foreshadowing.

00:27:08 ◼   ► It is foreshadowing, Myke.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Foreshadowing.

00:27:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:11 ◼   ► Okay, so I have one week and two days until it all gets better again, and then I have

00:27:16 ◼   ► another week. Because in one week and two days, Idina is coming to join me, and then

00:27:20 ◼   ► she can sort me out, right?

00:27:22 ◼   ► Okay.

00:27:23 ◼   ► I can be fixed by this point. She's just, she's already saying to me that, like, as

00:27:29 ◼   ► can imagine, my reaction to the shirts, I am overreacting. I am very aware of the fact

00:27:34 ◼   ► that I am overreacting, but there is nothing I can do about it now. I am in the zone. I

00:27:40 ◼   ► know that losing a shirt shouldn't spiral you out of control, but there's nothing I

00:27:44 ◼   ► can do about this.

00:27:46 ◼   ► It is true that telling someone they are overreacting is exactly 0% useful.

00:27:52 ◼   ► Because I know I am already.

00:27:53 ◼   ► Exactly. The people who are overreacting, they often know that's not the problem. It's

00:27:58 ◼   ► It's not a knowledge problem, right?

00:28:00 ◼   ► It's a something else problem.

00:28:02 ◼   ► You don't even know about my conspiracy theory yet.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Well yeah, I was gonna circle back to this in a mere moment.

00:28:09 ◼   ► I wasn't gonna let that casual comment go unmined for podcast content of how is Myke

00:28:17 ◼   ► losing his mind while traveling for an entire two weeks.

00:28:21 ◼   ► I shouldn't be talking to you about all of this.

00:28:24 ◼   ► This should have stayed in.

00:28:25 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:28:26 ◼   ► Do you want to know? Do you want me to tell you what happened?

00:28:30 ◼   ► You have to tell me what this conspiracy thing is.

00:28:32 ◼   ► I arrived in New York City. It's just us, Myke.

00:28:35 ◼   ► I arrived in New York City at Penn Station and I had to get to Times Square.

00:28:43 ◼   ► I arrived in New York City to atrocious rain. Like, it was really badly raining.

00:28:51 ◼   ► I have a really heavy suitcase.

00:28:53 ◼   ► I made my way to the subway.

00:28:56 ◼   ► My first, I think it's the first time

00:28:59 ◼   ► I've ever rode the subway on my own.

00:29:00 ◼   ► And that's like a whole other thing

00:29:01 ◼   ► about how confusing I find the New York subway

00:29:04 ◼   ► compared to the London tube.

00:29:05 ◼   ► - I will give you that one.

00:29:06 ◼   ► Even as someone who had experience with the New York subway

00:29:10 ◼   ► as a much younger self,

00:29:12 ◼   ► it is a much less user-friendly situation

00:29:17 ◼   ► than the London Underground.

00:29:18 ◼   ► I won't necessarily say more difficult,

00:29:20 ◼   ► I'll just say less user-friendly, I think is the way I would put it.

00:29:23 ◼   ► I have become more adept at navigating it now, but like initially when I just thought

00:29:28 ◼   ► that I was gonna be able to just go, like just go, that's not the case.

00:29:33 ◼   ► You can't just go.

00:29:34 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:29:35 ◼   ► You can't just go, Myke.

00:29:36 ◼   ► It's like, are you going uptown or downtown?

00:29:37 ◼   ► You have to know.

00:29:39 ◼   ► If you don't know, you are screwed.

00:29:42 ◼   ► So I made my way and I did what I had to do and I got to the hotel. I arrive at the hotel,

00:29:52 ◼   ► have him walk through the rain. I'm dripping right onto the floor of the hotel. I met with

00:29:58 ◼   ► the check-in guy and he has a sense of humor. He's a funny guy and he's checking me in and

00:30:08 ◼   ► He's like, you know, can I have your ID and your card?

00:30:11 ◼   ► I'm like, sure, I'll give him my ID,

00:30:12 ◼   ► I'll give him my credit card so he can,

00:30:14 ◼   ► they can do whatever it is they need to do with all that stuff.

00:30:16 ◼   ► I don't fully understand why I have to give anybody my ID at a hotel,

00:30:19 ◼   ► but like this is a thing you have to do in America.

00:30:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't get that either.

00:30:22 ◼   ► I don't know why, like, just let me pay for, I paid you for the room, like I don't, anyway.

00:30:28 ◼   ► Yeah, it seems very strange, like, do I need to give my ID at a restaurant?

00:30:32 ◼   ► Like, why, I don't understand why here I need my ID.

00:30:36 ◼   ► but they do, so they take the ID.

00:30:38 ◼   ► And so he's checking me in and he just says,

00:30:40 ◼   ► "What is your email address?"

00:30:41 ◼   ► And I said, "Why do you need my email address?"

00:30:46 ◼   ► And he's just like, "Oh, we put it into the system."

00:30:49 ◼   ► I was like, "No."

00:30:49 ◼   ► Then he said, "What if you lose something

00:30:55 ◼   ► and we need to contact you?"

00:30:56 ◼   ► - Oh, I see where this is going, okay.

00:30:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I can see where the crazy begins, okay, yep.

00:31:00 ◼   ► - And I said to him, "It's okay.

00:31:03 ◼   ► I don't, I don't, I will, you know, you can contact me in other ways. Like, I don't want

00:31:08 ◼   ► to give you my email address." And he's like, "Okay." And he's making these jokes.

00:31:11 ◼   ► So there is a part of me that is like, "Did he steal my shirts?"

00:31:14 ◼   ► Because he, it was, he was so insistent on if I lose something,

00:31:24 ◼   ► right? And because he made a joke about it. He's like, "Oh, well, it'll be lost then."

00:31:31 ◼   ► And the thing is, Greg, here's the thing.

00:31:34 ◼   ► When I was in DC, I didn't unpack.

00:31:38 ◼   ► So I know I didn't take the shirts out when I was in DC,

00:31:40 ◼   ► because I was only there for a couple of days.

00:31:42 ◼   ► When I was in New York, I was there for a week,

00:31:44 ◼   ► and I did unpack.

00:31:45 ◼   ► - It's certainly not that unpacking dramatically

00:31:48 ◼   ► increases the likelihood of losing something.

00:31:50 ◼   ► - But I know, but this is the thing, right?

00:31:52 ◼   ► So like, I am at an impasse of either

00:31:55 ◼   ► my system of checking the room is bad,

00:31:58 ◼   ► or the check-in assistant stole two shirts from me.

00:32:02 ◼   ► And right now, they are both upsetting in their own way.

00:32:07 ◼   ► - They're both upsetting, but like all good conspiracy theories,

00:32:10 ◼   ► you clearly want to believe that the shirts were stolen versus your system has failed you.

00:32:17 ◼   ► - It is better for me to feel that the man stole from me.

00:32:21 ◼   ► - That's basically what conspiracy theories are, right?

00:32:23 ◼   ► They are attractive sets of ideas that you kind of want to be true, like, "Ooh!"

00:32:28 ◼   ► - Ooh, this would be much better than my system failing.

00:32:32 ◼   ► - I would far prefer it.

00:32:34 ◼   ► - As a slight side tangent at the hotels

00:32:36 ◼   ► when they ask for all your information,

00:32:38 ◼   ► this is why I have learned to just

00:32:41 ◼   ► give them false information, right?

00:32:42 ◼   ► Because I used to do the like,

00:32:43 ◼   ► why do you need my phone number?

00:32:45 ◼   ► Why do you need my email address thing?

00:32:46 ◼   ► Why do you need my home address?

00:32:49 ◼   ► Like any of these information that these places ask,

00:32:51 ◼   ► now I just make stuff up.

00:32:52 ◼   ► I just put down fake numbers.

00:32:53 ◼   ► It's like, whatever.

00:32:55 ◼   ► Never has caused a problem and it just gets us

00:32:58 ◼   ► past this "you want to build your email list" like hotel I will never visit again, that's what's occurring here.

00:33:04 ◼   ► So yeah, I just give them information that's not true.

00:33:07 ◼   ► [sigh]

00:33:09 ◼   ► That's fine. Just a fake email address, Myke. That's what you need.

00:33:12 ◼   ► Yeah, but then they would email me if I lost the things and it would never come back to me, would it?

00:33:16 ◼   ► They might at least call.

00:33:18 ◼   ► Look, if there's something important at the hotel, they can get in touch with you.

00:33:22 ◼   ► When I check into a hotel, I give them all the fake information for like, "Oh, what's your email address?

00:33:27 ◼   ► What's your phone number? Right?

00:33:28 ◼   ► Because if they need to get in touch they can do it.

00:33:30 ◼   ► And I also, when I go into the room, there are several things that I do to get a hotel room ready for me.

00:33:36 ◼   ► But one of those things includes unplugging the phone in the wall.

00:33:39 ◼   ► Because I'd be like, "I don't want you to call me."

00:33:41 ◼   ► Randomly, with something I probably don't really care about.

00:33:44 ◼   ► Do you check for bugs? Check the lamps and stuff?

00:33:47 ◼   ► No, I don't check the lamps for bugs.

00:33:49 ◼   ► You do a sweep?

00:33:51 ◼   ► No, I don't do a sweep.

00:33:53 ◼   ► That would be crazy.

00:33:54 ◼   ► I have to get it ready for me like nothing enters I go in with a hood and then I unplug

00:33:59 ◼   ► I unplug the phone I check the lamp for bugs. No, that's crazy Myke. Of course. Yeah

00:34:04 ◼   ► Crazy crazy crazy. Yeah pro tip though for anybody who does want to unplug the phones that the the hotel desk doesn't bother you with

00:34:12 ◼   ► their dumb phone calls

00:34:14 ◼   ► If it is a cordless phone make sure to take the battery out of the phone as well because it will start beeping in

00:34:19 ◼   ► in about 24 hours when the battery begins to run down.

00:34:22 ◼   ► It'll go beep beep to let you know,

00:34:23 ◼   ► "Ooh, need to charge me."

00:34:24 ◼   ► So pull that battery out the back of the phone,

00:34:27 ◼   ► unplug the phone from the wall,

00:34:29 ◼   ► and you have a nice quiet hotel room.

00:34:31 ◼   ► No one will bother you.

00:34:32 ◼   ► And if it's really important,

00:34:33 ◼   ► they'll catch you when you're walking past the front desk.

00:34:35 ◼   ► That has always been my experience.

00:34:36 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:34:37 ◼   ► Maybe what I need to do is set up an email address

00:34:40 ◼   ► that I never check, but it's there.

00:34:43 ◼   ► So if I have lost something,

00:34:45 ◼   ► I can just go log in for that email account

00:34:47 ◼   ► and check that address.

00:34:48 ◼   ► but it's full of emails from the Gap and this hotel chain.

00:34:51 ◼   ► There you go, life hack.

00:34:53 ◼   ► So we're all about in the show.

00:34:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, great.

00:34:55 ◼   ► Fantastic. - Yeah, I'm in a,

00:34:57 ◼   ► just a real pickle.

00:34:58 ◼   ► I'm in a, I called the hotel.

00:34:59 ◼   ► They said they didn't find anything.

00:35:01 ◼   ► I don't believe them.

00:35:03 ◼   ► And this is where I am in my life, Gray.

00:35:05 ◼   ► It's not good.

00:35:06 ◼   ► It's not good.

00:35:07 ◼   ► - I don't wanna put an idea in your mind,

00:35:08 ◼   ► but I'm pretty sure that when you called,

00:35:10 ◼   ► the guy who answered was wearing your shirt at the time.

00:35:13 ◼   ► - Oh, they were, I know it.

00:35:14 ◼   ► They were nice shirts too.

00:35:17 ◼   ► Yeah, let it go, Myke.

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00:37:16 ◼   ► Alright Myke, tell me now.

00:37:19 ◼   ► I know we've had a fascinating discussion about your slowly unravelling mental state.

00:37:24 ◼   ► But what are you doing in America right now?

00:37:28 ◼   ► What are you there for?

00:37:30 ◼   ► I want to know.

00:37:31 ◼   ► Tell me.

00:37:32 ◼   ► So many things, Gray.

00:37:33 ◼   ► So I have attended a pen show.

00:37:36 ◼   ► Of course.

00:37:37 ◼   ► And you know what a pen show is by now, right?

00:37:39 ◼   ► Like you know.

00:37:40 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a show where you can buy pens.

00:37:43 ◼   ► Yes, it's like a big place where you can go and you can buy pens.

00:37:45 ◼   ► And I have a show all about pens called The Pen Addict and we do a Kickstarter every year

00:37:50 ◼   ► and for us to go to different shows and we go and we record live shows there.

00:37:54 ◼   ► Actually, we're doing three this year, which is wild.

00:37:57 ◼   ► So I was at the DC Pen Show.

00:37:59 ◼   ► Wait, are you doing three live pen shows?

00:38:01 ◼   ► Is that what you're saying?

00:38:02 ◼   ► Three live episodes of The Pen Addict because of the Kickstarter campaign.

00:38:07 ◼   ► It's a North American tour. We're going to be in Chicago in October.

00:38:10 ◼   ► That's amazing. That's fantastic.

00:38:13 ◼   ► I live a really weird life. It's kind of beautiful.

00:38:16 ◼   ► So I was in DC for the pen show, then I went to New York,

00:38:20 ◼   ► and that was just purely like I'm waiting.

00:38:23 ◼   ► It was like a holding pattern because I'm in Memphis right now,

00:38:26 ◼   ► which is where Steven, my co-founder, lives, and we get together every year

00:38:30 ◼   ► because it's Real AFM's birthday in August.

00:38:33 ◼   ► We're actually going to talk a little bit about that at the end of the show.

00:38:36 ◼   ► So, but it's good for me and him to get together every year because we get to work in the same

00:38:42 ◼   ► place which is just nice, but we also get to like think about our company, you know,

00:38:47 ◼   ► and talk through stuff like that together which is really useful.

00:38:50 ◼   ► And we kind of set some goals and set some objectives and some things we'd like to achieve

00:38:55 ◼   ► in the next year.

00:38:56 ◼   ► So that's always a good thing to do.

00:38:58 ◼   ► So I've been here for that and I leave Memphis in a couple of days.

00:39:03 ◼   ► But before you zoom on though, so you two are hanging out as co-founders of Relay together.

00:39:11 ◼   ► How long are you guys spending together?

00:39:12 ◼   ► A week.

00:39:13 ◼   ► That's good.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Like that's a good amount of time so that you're around but it doesn't feel like you

00:39:18 ◼   ► have to rush everything together.

00:39:21 ◼   ► And I would suspect that that's also the, like that's a good amount of time that you

00:39:25 ◼   ► can rehash or like revisit thoughts a few times and bounce them off of each other.

00:39:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:33 ◼   ► Like, I think it's really interesting that you guys do this.

00:39:39 ◼   ► I know people who are essentially like remote co-founders of various things, but I know

00:39:46 ◼   ► very very few people who do the "we're going to be intentionally together as co-founders

00:39:52 ◼   ► on a regular basis" thing.

00:39:55 ◼   ► I think that's such a great idea because...

00:39:58 ◼   ► It's so important.

00:39:59 ◼   ► Yeah, it really, really is.

00:40:02 ◼   ► It really matters to be in person to discuss things like this, and especially when you

00:40:08 ◼   ► own a company together.

00:40:09 ◼   ► Yeah, like it's so easy for us to work remotely, right?

00:40:12 ◼   ► Like it works perfectly, like our business is structured and set up to actually be more

00:40:17 ◼   ► effective because it's remote.

00:40:19 ◼   ► But for us not to get together with the explicit idea of talking about the company and thinking

00:40:25 ◼   ► about it and being like that's that seems like a really just obvious thing and like to not do that

00:40:32 ◼   ► seems like it would be a real mistake like we see each other a lot every year but it's in other

00:40:38 ◼   ► circumstances there is another thing happening so an idea may pop up or whatever but in this time

00:40:43 ◼   ► like i'm here i'm staying in steven's house with his family we're spending like we're the best of

00:40:49 ◼   ► friends, right? So like it's all so nice to do that. But whilst we're also at the zoo together,

00:40:55 ◼   ► I can mention a thing and it's like, "Oh yeah, that's a really good idea. We'll talk about that."

00:41:00 ◼   ► And then we can come back to it later on. Because ideas, you know, if you work on anything,

00:41:06 ◼   ► no matter whether it's just your job or a side project or whatever, ideas, they happen all the

00:41:13 ◼   ► time of a thing. You're like, "Oh, I've cracked it." Or, "Oh, I've had this great idea." And being

00:41:18 ◼   ► in the same physical location as the person that should hear those ideas is very valuable.

00:41:24 ◼   ► Very valuable.

00:41:25 ◼   ► No, I think it's great that you do it and I just wanted to focus on it for a moment because I feel

00:41:31 ◼   ► like, you know, when you and I meet up for lunch on occasion, you will often make reference to like,

00:41:38 ◼   ► "Oh, I was thinking about this thing." Like when we were together as co-founders in Memphis,

00:41:44 ◼   ► like you and Steven were and it's it's it's clearly a

00:41:48 ◼   ► time that is

00:41:51 ◼   ► that has like a

00:41:53 ◼   ► Value that is much greater than just the the raw days that you're together. Yeah, and I think like it is

00:42:00 ◼   ► Working remotely. It is fantastic for the day today

00:42:05 ◼   ► but the impression that I get is is like a lot of the a

00:42:10 ◼   ► Lot of the sort of big-picture vision for what you want for relay and for your company comes out of this time

00:42:16 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. Oh, it really does it really really does

00:42:19 ◼   ► I mean it also we we launched a redesign of our website and that was really

00:42:24 ◼   ► Useful for us to be in the same place when we did that

00:42:26 ◼   ► Yes, the new the new relay website. It looks gorgeous. Yeah, it's really good-looking. It's very good-looking. They had nothing to do with me

00:42:35 ◼   ► Did you not hand draw all of the pages for the website?

00:42:40 ◼   ► No.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Nope.

00:42:42 ◼   ► You didn't do that?

00:42:43 ◼   ► None of it was my idea, but I love it.

00:42:46 ◼   ► It was fantastic.

00:42:48 ◼   ► It was really well done, and I think it represents our company better than the previous website

00:42:54 ◼   ► did.

00:42:55 ◼   ► I think it looks really great, and it was really fun and scary to all be in the same

00:43:00 ◼   ► place whilst that was happening, and then like, putting out all the fires.

00:43:04 ◼   ► It was good.

00:43:05 ◼   ► But that was like doing that in the same place is way better than it happening which would

00:43:09 ◼   ► have happened when I was sleeping in London is what it would have happened.

00:43:13 ◼   ► And then as well as that like I've like doing the show like I'm recording in Steven's studio

00:43:17 ◼   ► for a few days like I'm doing all of my regular work and we're together and it's been very

00:43:21 ◼   ► valuable like we do it every year and we'll continue to like it's a it makes so much sense.

00:43:27 ◼   ► It makes so much sense.

00:43:28 ◼   ► So you're in Steven's studio right now.

00:43:30 ◼   ► Are you surrounded by Max of all kinds decades ago?

00:43:34 ◼   ► shelving full of old computers like just this big shelving unit with lots and

00:43:42 ◼   ► lots of things on it like I can look at old iPod touches and old Macintoshes and

00:43:47 ◼   ► they're everywhere. I can't imagine that any listeners are unaware but in case

00:43:53 ◼   ► they aren't like Stephen Hackett your co-founder must have one of the largest

00:43:56 ◼   ► private collections of Apple equipment in the world like that has to be true. I

00:44:03 ◼   ► I think in the condition that he has them, yes.

00:44:06 ◼   ► I mean, to the point that he has literally donated

00:44:09 ◼   ► large sections of his collections to museums

00:44:13 ◼   ► like the Henry Ford Museum.

00:44:15 ◼   ► - So the Henry Ford Museum has one of those little plaques

00:44:17 ◼   ► that says, "Oh, this historical Mac was donated

00:44:21 ◼   ► by Stephen Hackett."

00:44:23 ◼   ► Like you see those plaques in museums when like--

00:44:25 ◼   ► - I think it will do eventually.

00:44:26 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:44:27 ◼   ► - I think that they're still preparing them

00:44:28 ◼   ► and it was every color of the iMac G3.

00:44:32 ◼   ► Stephen had an incredible project where he put them all together and then at the end of it donated them to the Henry Ford Museum.

00:44:39 ◼   ► So yeah, he has quite a collection.

00:44:42 ◼   ► It is really crazy. Listeners, if you haven't seen it, we'll put it in the show notes, but Stephen Hackett's YouTube channel

00:44:50 ◼   ► has a bunch of videos where he's showing off various portions of his collection and it is

00:44:56 ◼   ► It is impressive to see and it must have been...

00:44:59 ◼   ► I can't imagine how much effort had to go into getting all of the different pieces that he has.

00:45:05 ◼   ► But because he has so many, he can do very fun videos sometimes.

00:45:09 ◼   ► Like, when Apple released that ridiculous book of all the things they made,

00:45:13 ◼   ► I love that he made a video of the physical objects with the pages in the book.

00:45:18 ◼   ► But it's like, how many people in the world could match them up?

00:45:21 ◼   ► No one can do that, right? Who has the stuff?

00:45:24 ◼   ► what he does, like including a selection of iPod socks. Like he has all of that. Yeah,

00:45:31 ◼   ► this is a very interesting setting to record shows in.

00:45:34 ◼   ► Yeah, so I just wanted to visualize where you are. So you're surrounded by all the Macs.

00:45:40 ◼   ► That's where you are at this moment.

00:45:41 ◼   ► I'm in a room in Memphis, Tennessee surrounded by computers that are mostly older than me.

00:45:49 ◼   ► not mostly. I'm older than I think I am. Some are older than me, not all. But as well as

00:45:56 ◼   ► that, right, so when I was in New York I was really kind of following the graycation model.

00:46:01 ◼   ► Like I was doing all of my regular work just in another location and it was great because

00:46:09 ◼   ► I felt I had this really strange feeling of like I live in New York now. Like a couple

00:46:15 ◼   ► the days in it was just this really weird feeling of I have taken my life and put it here.

00:46:22 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. Plus New York is a great place to do this type of thing.

00:46:27 ◼   ► I know I mentioned it before but I'm gonna mention again that I really do think like

00:46:31 ◼   ► obviously Gray Industries does not have a co-founder right so I don't I don't go someplace

00:46:36 ◼   ► with a non-existent co-founder but I really do I do think that a change of location is an important

00:46:44 ◼   ► part of doing a trip like this, where you feel like you're going to have a dedicated

00:46:49 ◼   ► work time. Like I really think that the location change matters.

00:46:54 ◼   ► And that's why I used to just go to different hotels in the same city.

00:46:58 ◼   ► And now sometimes I go to Amsterdam or I go to other locations if I can, if I can make it happen.

00:47:03 ◼   ► And that thing that you've touched on, that this sort of almost tricking your brain

00:47:09 ◼   ► into creating this illusion like you just exist in this other place. I really think that it is important that that feeling of

00:47:17 ◼   ► existing somewhere else that I think doing your regular work really helps bring about

00:47:22 ◼   ► it kind of opens you up to thinking about

00:47:25 ◼   ► things in a little bit of a in a little bit of a different way. Like it's interesting to hear that you had that

00:47:31 ◼   ► that feeling of like oh I

00:47:33 ◼   ► exist in New York now and that was definitely a thing like over the summer doing a whole bunch of traveling like I had that

00:47:39 ◼   ► a bunch of times, like a very particular, "What I'm doing now, this is just my life."

00:47:45 ◼   ► It feels almost a bit like you're a different person, which lets you look at problems in

00:47:51 ◼   ► different ways or sometimes think of solutions that wouldn't have occurred to you in the

00:47:56 ◼   ► normal day-to-day routine of your life.

00:47:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I know that you have, I think, mostly established Amsterdam as like your

00:48:04 ◼   ► place where you go for this stuff.

00:48:06 ◼   ► Yeah, Amsterdam is really good.

00:48:09 ◼   ► It's interesting because Amsterdam is really good.

00:48:12 ◼   ► For me it has a bunch of reasons why it works really well, but I am also aware that that

00:48:19 ◼   ► has also become a little bit of a downside, like I almost know it too well at this point,

00:48:25 ◼   ► and so I feel like I have a little bit less of the novelty experience than previously.

00:48:30 ◼   ► But it is the place that I have gone the most to think about stuff long term or try to reboot

00:48:38 ◼   ► my working process. Because I think that New York really works for me as this place because

00:48:45 ◼   ► everything is super accessible on foot a lot of it right like you can just you know I stayed in

00:48:51 ◼   ► Times Square for the week and being there it's like well I can just walk down to the coffee shop

00:48:57 ◼   ► I can go get some lunch I can go get some groceries and also I have a lot of friends that

00:49:03 ◼   ► that live in New York as well. So all of my evenings, I had stuff to do.

00:49:08 ◼   ► Like I wasn't just being like a recluse because that doesn't,

00:49:10 ◼   ► that wouldn't work for me to be on my own for a week.

00:49:12 ◼   ► Of course.

00:49:13 ◼   ► So I had lots of lunches and dinners and I'm going back to New York and I'm going

00:49:16 ◼   ► to be there for like another 10 days before this thing is done.

00:49:20 ◼   ► And I have loads more planned, right?

00:49:22 ◼   ► Loads of people to go and meet, loads of companies to go and visit. Like it's,

00:49:26 ◼   ► it's a good place for me to be because I can take the time that I need to do

00:49:30 ◼   ► what I want to do, but then also still actually interact with other humans on a frequent basis,

00:49:36 ◼   ► which I – if I am away without a dinner, I need – like I need to be able to see people.

00:49:42 ◼   ► Like just being on my own for multiple days at a time, seeing nobody that I know would

00:49:47 ◼   ► have a not so great effect on me. Like I can do a couple of days and it's great and it's

00:49:51 ◼   ► useful, but just having a dinner or a lunch every day or two with somebody is – that's

00:49:56 ◼   ► very useful for me.

00:49:57 ◼   ► I mean, yeah, New York is just, it's an absolutely fantastic place for that.

00:50:01 ◼   ► Like, the convenience of it is just perfect.

00:50:05 ◼   ► And if you know a whole bunch of people in New York, like, that makes it even better.

00:50:10 ◼   ► So I'm glad that you're enjoying your early day.

00:50:14 ◼   ► Oh yeah, you said it.

00:50:15 ◼   ► In New York.

00:50:16 ◼   ► You're finding it productive.

00:50:17 ◼   ► Uh huh.

00:50:18 ◼   ► You're being a very busy boy in New York.

00:50:19 ◼   ► I am.

00:50:20 ◼   ► I am very busy.

00:50:21 ◼   ► Are you having any time for your regular work, or are you just visiting people and taking

00:50:25 ◼   ► meetings?

00:50:26 ◼   ► that

00:50:47 ◼   ► Are you going to write a novel? No. Again, a lot of people have been suggesting and asking

00:50:52 ◼   ► more about this. All I will want to say right now, because it may never happen,

00:50:58 ◼   ► is that it will be an audio-based thing. Because I want to apply my skills in a different area.

00:51:03 ◼   ► I couldn't write a novel. That's not something I could do. That's just nowhere near my skill set,

00:51:11 ◼   ► and it's not a skill set that I am really interested in taking on right now because

00:51:18 ◼   ► I feel like I can apply the skills that I have to something else, right? Like I can go ahead and

00:51:24 ◼   ► make something fictional and I will say a lot of people have guessed exactly what I want to do.

00:51:29 ◼   ► [Music]

00:51:30 ◼   ► B: It's not a novel though, I'm surprised.

00:51:33 ◼   ► S; Not a novel.

00:51:34 ◼   ► B; Such an avid reader as yourself, I would expect that you would want to write a novel.

00:51:37 ◼   ► S; It's strange that I wouldn't do that, yeah, like it's super strange I wouldn't do that.

00:51:40 ◼   ► it. I still have so much travel to do this year as well. Which I'm excited about.

00:51:46 ◼   ► Well you said you still have, you're going to Chicago in October?

00:51:51 ◼   ► I'm going to Chicago in October where I'm doing two live shows. I'm doing a live

00:51:58 ◼   ► Pan-Addict and a live Connected and I'm going to a conference called Release Notes.

00:52:02 ◼   ► And then I'm going to be at PodCon in December. I am a featured guest of PodCon.

00:52:08 ◼   ► Oh, look at you, very fancy.

00:52:10 ◼   ► My face on the page.

00:52:12 ◼   ► There I am, of all these fancy people.

00:52:14 ◼   ► Face on the page.

00:52:16 ◼   ► That makes it official.

00:52:17 ◼   ► And I'm there, I'm going to be there.

00:52:18 ◼   ► I don't know what I'm going to be doing yet, but

00:52:20 ◼   ► that is something that I'm really excited about.

00:52:22 ◼   ► It is the podcast version of VidCon.

00:52:24 ◼   ► I've wanted something like this for a long time and I am excited about it.

00:52:29 ◼   ► So I'm going to be there and I'm going to be doing something.

00:52:31 ◼   ► I'm hoping to do some panels and stuff, but like all of that's

00:52:34 ◼   ► going to be worked out later.

00:52:36 ◼   ► And I'm going to be in Romania for Christmas,

00:52:37 ◼   ► which is the first time that's happening.

00:52:39 ◼   ► It's my first Christmas outside of England,

00:52:41 ◼   ► so that's gonna be interesting.

00:52:42 ◼   ► - You got a lot of travel going on, Myke.

00:52:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, there may also be one more trip in here yet,

00:52:46 ◼   ► but it's not decided yet.

00:52:48 ◼   ► - Man, if you're gonna do all the travel successfully,

00:52:51 ◼   ► you really have to sort out your system.

00:52:53 ◼   ► - I hate you.

00:52:56 ◼   ► - I'm just saying, with a broken ass system like you've got,

00:53:01 ◼   ► you're not, you know, I think you gotta work on that

00:53:03 ◼   ► before you can do this.

00:53:05 ◼   ► - I don't wanna talk to you anymore.

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00:54:42 ◼   ► Are you there, Myke?

00:54:46 ◼   ► No comment.

00:54:47 ◼   ► Oh, yep.

00:54:48 ◼   ► Myke doesn't want to talk to me.

00:54:50 ◼   ► You're having a timeout right now.

00:54:51 ◼   ► This is what's happening.

00:54:52 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:54:53 ◼   ► I'm having a timeout.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Mm hmm.

00:54:55 ◼   ► Yeah, because you can't give me the silent treatment to effectively on a podcast.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Exactly. This doesn't really work. I would like to give you the silent treatment right

00:55:02 ◼   ► now but it's a really difficult thing to do. Yeah, and even if you did, people listening

00:55:07 ◼   ► in Overcast, Smart Speed would just make your silent treatment totally ineffective anyway.

00:55:11 ◼   ► Exactly, it would just make it a treatment which is no silence at all.

00:55:14 ◼   ► It would be no silence at all. But I know how to bring you back. I know how to bring

00:55:19 ◼   ► you back, Myke. You do, do you?

00:55:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I know how to get out of the time out. Which is to tell you, a thing happened in

00:55:26 ◼   ► the grey household which I was not expecting to happen yet and for a while.

00:55:33 ◼   ► But there is now in the house a TV.

00:55:38 ◼   ► Wait was there a TV before?

00:55:41 ◼   ► No there was a computer before.

00:55:42 ◼   ► Wow now there's a TV?

00:55:44 ◼   ► Okay.

00:55:45 ◼   ► Yeah there was an iMac that was a TV.

00:55:48 ◼   ► So now there's like a TV like a grown up TV.

00:55:51 ◼   ► Like a real TV.

00:55:53 ◼   ► With one of those stupid grown-up TV remotes that like your parents have with a thousand

00:55:57 ◼   ► buttons on them.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:59 ◼   ► And that I only care about literally one of those buttons, which is the button to switch

00:56:02 ◼   ► the inputs, and to switch the inputs to the Nintendo Switch, which is connected to that

00:56:11 ◼   ► TV.

00:56:12 ◼   ► Your time out is over.

00:56:14 ◼   ► I'm back baby.

00:56:15 ◼   ► You got a Nintendo Switch?

00:56:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I got a Nintendo Switch.

00:56:20 ◼   ► I have so many questions and I don't even know where to begin. Why? I guess to start.

00:56:26 ◼   ► What made you... what happened?

00:56:28 ◼   ► I'd always assumed that I was going to get a TV if and when we move apartments.

00:56:32 ◼   ► Wait, did you move?

00:56:34 ◼   ► No. Well here's the thing. No, we didn't move. We didn't move. But you know how, you know

00:56:41 ◼   ► how like your paranoia and conspiracy is a thing that feeds on itself and it grows in

00:56:47 ◼   ► intensity?

00:56:48 ◼   ► I am very aware of this right now, yep.

00:56:51 ◼   ► I can't point any fingers, but I'll just say that someone in the house got it in her head.

00:56:57 ◼   ► Oh, in her head.

00:56:58 ◼   ► Look, I'm not specifying.

00:56:59 ◼   ► Okay, okay.

00:57:00 ◼   ► Sorry, sorry, sorry.

00:57:01 ◼   ► I shouldn't try and press on this.

00:57:03 ◼   ► Yeah, don't press on it.

00:57:04 ◼   ► But someone got it into her head that the iMac that we watched TV on was too small.

00:57:12 ◼   ► And this is an idea that starts to feed on itself, because then you watch movies and

00:57:16 ◼   ► you think this would be better if it was bigger. Which reinforces the idea that the iMac, our

00:57:24 ◼   ► 21-inch iMac is not adequate. You've been watching TV on a 21-inch screen for how long?

00:57:32 ◼   ► It's not, but here's the thing, the apartment is very small, the screen is not that far

00:57:35 ◼   ► away. Great, I live in London, I understand the size of apartments. A 21-inch screen is

00:57:40 ◼   ► comedic. You live on the rim, you have like a manor house compared to what I live in probably.

00:57:46 ◼   ► So yeah, anyway, it was a little small.

00:57:50 ◼   ► A lot small.

00:57:51 ◼   ► Yeah, it had been fine for, I don't know, I think we've been living here two and a half

00:57:55 ◼   ► years now, but I could see that this was an idea that was self-sustaining, self-feeding,

00:58:04 ◼   ► like a nuclear reaction gone out of control.

00:58:08 ◼   ► And so I ended up deciding, "I'm going to roll with this."

00:58:15 ◼   ► And we got a TV screen, and I figured, well, the TV exists so that we could connect an

00:58:24 ◼   ► Apple TV to it.

00:58:26 ◼   ► And I thought, well, as soon as there's a TV in the house, now there's a reason for

00:58:29 ◼   ► a Nintendo Switch to be in the house.

00:58:31 ◼   ► Okay, so I want to-- obviously I'm dying to talk about that, but I need to go back to

00:58:35 ◼   ► the TV thing again because there's a way to prove that the iMac was too small and could

00:58:40 ◼   ► have been bigger by asking you what is the size of the television that you bought.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Uh, I think it's 50 inches? Yeah, so there you go, Gray. Point made. You clearly had

00:58:50 ◼   ► enough space and it was clearly too small if you've been able to fit a 50 inch screen

00:58:54 ◼   ► into the place that was occupied by the iMac and your eyes have not burned out of your

00:58:59 ◼   ► skull, right? You obviously had the space. It does feel very big compared to the distance

00:59:04 ◼   ► You've more than doubled it!

00:59:06 ◼   ► We're sitting away from it.

00:59:08 ◼   ► But yeah, it's a big screen.

00:59:11 ◼   ► It's a big screen.

00:59:12 ◼   ► I mean, I went with a 42.

00:59:14 ◼   ► 50, you really pushed it.

00:59:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I had to do some negotiating down from larger sizes.

00:59:21 ◼   ► What?

00:59:22 ◼   ► And I will say that I was victorious in that larger sizes would simply not fit in the space.

00:59:27 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean...

00:59:28 ◼   ► That was required.

00:59:30 ◼   ► This kinda got out of control over here a little bit I think.

00:59:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it was a whole thing.

00:59:37 ◼   ► But yeah, so now it's weird.

00:59:39 ◼   ► It's like, there's something about having a TV that feels weirdly like, oh, very grown

00:59:43 ◼   ► up.

00:59:44 ◼   ► It's just like, it's this big object.

00:59:46 ◼   ► Like I'm not just using discarded old computers to watch stuff on now.

00:59:50 ◼   ► Like now I have like a proper TV with HDMI inputs that you have to flick around on the

00:59:55 ◼   ► little button to switch between.

00:59:57 ◼   ► So yeah, it's in my house.

00:59:59 ◼   ► So you bought a Nintendo Switch. Why did you choose the Switch over any other games console?

01:00:06 ◼   ► This is a thing that... I'm obviously a gamer, like we talk about games on the show a bunch,

01:00:14 ◼   ► like I like video games. You're a hardcore gamer.

01:00:17 ◼   ► Yeah, a very hardcore Mac gamer. Yep.

01:00:20 ◼   ► [laughter]

01:00:29 ◼   ► Are you having a good laugh over there, Myke? Is that very funny?

01:00:31 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:00:33 ◼   ► People can look at my streaming YouTube channel to see my amazing gaming skills.

01:00:39 ◼   ► Other people in my house are not necessarily the same level of gamer that I am.

01:00:44 ◼   ► Like, my wife, for example, just to pick a random person who lives in the house as well,

01:00:49 ◼   ► She's not really a gamer. Like every once in a while she'll get into something for a little bit, but it's always very temporary.

01:00:55 ◼   ► But we've always had this idea that it would be fun to have a gaming system that you can play with somebody else.

01:01:03 ◼   ► And I think on that list, Nintendo has always been the thing that is clearly the best for people.

01:01:09 ◼   ► And the Switch is the ultimate. The Nintendo Switch, it's the ultimate multiplayer machine. It's full from the ground up.

01:01:17 ◼   ► We had it as an idea to get a Wii years and years ago, and then it eventually became the case where it's like,

01:01:22 ◼   ► "Well, we're not gonna get a Wii because it's so old." And then the Wii U seemed like a very unsuccessful platform.

01:01:28 ◼   ► And then it's just like, "Okay, well when the Switch came out, I told you at the time I wasn't gonna get it straightaway,

01:01:33 ◼   ► but I knew like at some point I'm going to have a Switch, and now that point has come."

01:01:39 ◼   ► And it's very fun.

01:01:42 ◼   ► It's interesting to play and the thing that I feel like is a big victory is

01:01:48 ◼   ► I was trying very slowly to introduce my wife to Mario Kart

01:01:54 ◼   ► and you forget how someone who's very used to playing games

01:01:58 ◼   ► like how much has to be learned with handling a controller if this is not a thing that you've ever done.

01:02:03 ◼   ► Like that level of indirection for someone to learn is a real thing.

01:02:08 ◼   ► Like it is a real skill that is very easy to forget.

01:02:13 ◼   ► And it is a skill that gets increasingly difficult the older you get.

01:02:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:17 ◼   ► Kids pick it up incredibly quickly.

01:02:19 ◼   ► Yeah. I think that there is like an event horizon over which you probably can't really learn that skill in the same way.

01:02:27 ◼   ► So I wasn't 100% sure if this was going to really work with my wife, so I was trying to introduce her very slowly to Mario Kart.

01:02:34 ◼   ► and it's like, "Oh yes, look, let's play on the 50cc speed, like here we go, doop-a-doop," like driving around, driving around the carts.

01:02:42 ◼   ► I wasn't really sure if it was going to stick, but the other night I was doing some work in my office and

01:02:47 ◼   ► when I came out, I saw a very intense wife,

01:02:52 ◼   ► right, with headphones on, like connected to the TV, very intense look on her face,

01:02:59 ◼   ► driving around on Mario Kart and I thought here we go you picked it up without me

01:03:04 ◼   ► Suggesting that this is a thing that we could do together. So I feel like that's a victory. Yeah, you did it

01:03:09 ◼   ► So you did it. Yeah, what other games have you been playing? I just all I have is Zelda and I have

01:03:15 ◼   ► Mario Kart those those are the two that I got with it. Yeah, I played Zelda

01:03:25 ◼   ► I think that I think the same thing that I think of all the Zelda games

01:03:28 ◼   ► Which is I want to like them a lot more than I do

01:03:30 ◼   ► But in Zelda, I have a psychological problem with Zelda. Okay?

01:03:34 ◼   ► My psychological problem with Zelda is hey NPC. I'm not your goddamn errand boy

01:03:40 ◼   ► Yeah, but you don't have to do the errands in this game

01:03:43 ◼   ► But everybody everybody is telling you like oh you gotta go over here and bring me the thing and it's like oh

01:03:48 ◼   ► I'm gonna give you the sword of destiny

01:03:50 ◼   ► But I need you to find me four chickens first and it's like find your own goddamn chickens like okay

01:03:55 ◼   ► Okay, okay, okay. It's okay. I can help you with this.

01:03:58 ◼   ► But you know what I mean? Like these villagers, we're all supposed to be working together.

01:04:02 ◼   ► Ganondorf's gonna destroy all of Hyrule. Just give me the sword.

01:04:06 ◼   ► You are approaching this game with too much Zelda baggage.

01:04:10 ◼   ► You can ignore it. You can do whatever you want. The entire world is open. Just go.

01:04:19 ◼   ► You are, you are like, the issue that you are having is mostly self-imposed. Like, there

01:04:25 ◼   ► are missions for you to go on, but you can effectively just walk into them. Like, just

01:04:30 ◼   ► just go. The game is open for you to explore. If you want to right now run into Hyrule Castle,

01:04:37 ◼   ► you can actually do it. You can run to the final boss if you want to. Like, you can start

01:04:42 ◼   ► the interaction. You will die immediately.

01:04:45 ◼   ► Yeah, but I feel like that's a false choice.

01:04:50 ◼   ► Because I know people that have like, very early in the game, run into the castle and

01:04:54 ◼   ► picked up a sword that they shouldn't have and teleport out again.

01:04:58 ◼   ► Like, you can do that in this game.

01:05:00 ◼   ► It's what makes it probably the best video game that I've ever played.

01:05:04 ◼   ► Like it is completely open for you to play in.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Just stop talking to people and you will enjoy this game more.

01:05:12 ◼   ► you really don't I I know side quests and then just when they completed the

01:05:18 ◼   ► main story yeah maybe I should try that because I do feel it's like oh all these

01:05:22 ◼   ► people to talk to and like words words words like you've all got your little

01:05:27 ◼   ► problems and you all want me to fix them they they split up the quests into like

01:05:31 ◼   ► main quests and stuff just follow the main most line in the in your objectives

01:05:35 ◼   ► and I mean yeah of course you have to talk to people to advance the story but

01:05:40 ◼   ► But it's less of like, "I need this sword, can you find it?" or like, "I've lost my chickens,

01:05:46 ◼   ► can you run?"

01:05:47 ◼   ► It's not really stuff like that.

01:05:48 ◼   ► And the things that you do, they don't feel so errand-y, you actually do feel like you

01:05:53 ◼   ► are completing a big grand story, which includes-

01:05:56 ◼   ► No, it already feels like a lot of errands, like, "Oh, I want to give you the magic thing,

01:06:00 ◼   ► but you need to get the blue flame for me first."

01:06:02 ◼   ► Yeah, the blue flame one is a bit annoying.

01:06:04 ◼   ► But like, just follow those.

01:06:05 ◼   ► But you gotta get me seeds, I need magic seeds first.

01:06:08 ◼   ► Just don't even do it man, just go for the big like elephant like just run for it like you can do it

01:06:14 ◼   ► Just gonna die immediately. Just gonna die immediately if you go for the go for the end

01:06:19 ◼   ► That's the whole that's the whole point again. I mean here's the thing like I know I understand like this is the structure of these games

01:06:23 ◼   ► This is how these things work

01:06:23 ◼   ► but but I know this is this is the kind of thing where it's like I play them for a little while and I find that

01:06:28 ◼   ► my

01:06:29 ◼   ► Half-life half-life of patience runs dry very quickly

01:06:33 ◼   ► Yeah

01:06:33 ◼   ► With these kinds of games.

01:06:35 ◼   ► The thing is, I have been this guy which is why I have never completed a Zelda game before this one.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:06:40 ◼   ► But I've played less of them so I have less baggage.

01:06:43 ◼   ► I think that you may be approaching this game with a Zelda mindset.

01:06:47 ◼   ► Which I think if you break you will enjoy it more.

01:06:50 ◼   ► Maybe. I think I've only completed one.

01:06:53 ◼   ► Which is the Game Boy one.

01:06:55 ◼   ► It was all a dream. Spoilers for Game Boy Zelda I guess.

01:06:58 ◼   ► Oh no!

01:06:58 ◼   ► I think it was all a dream.

01:07:00 ◼   ► Which made me feel cheated.

01:07:02 ◼   ► It's the worst story ending.

01:07:04 ◼   ► Any story that ends with,

01:07:05 ◼   ► and he woke up and it was all a dream,

01:07:07 ◼   ► but he looked to the side and there's a memento.

01:07:09 ◼   ► Maybe it was real all along like that.

01:07:11 ◼   ► If you end a story that way, you have failed.

01:07:14 ◼   ► You have failed at stuff.

01:07:15 ◼   ► - It's terrible.

01:07:16 ◼   ► I'll give Zelda credit for being beautiful.

01:07:18 ◼   ► - It really is.

01:07:19 ◼   ► - It's very fire-watchy.

01:07:22 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that.

01:07:24 ◼   ► - The art styles are very similar.

01:07:26 ◼   ► Firewatch, highly recommend for people

01:07:28 ◼   ► if they haven't played it.

01:07:30 ◼   ► I like games that have a little story like that,

01:07:33 ◼   ► like a game that's a little evening adventure

01:07:35 ◼   ► and then it's over.

01:07:36 ◼   ► It's not a thousand years of running people's errands

01:07:39 ◼   ► like Zelda is.

01:07:40 ◼   ► But yeah, I think our style is very similar

01:07:42 ◼   ► when we think of that, it's good.

01:07:43 ◼   ► And it's just interesting to see with the Switch,

01:07:46 ◼   ► I think that Nintendo's signature move is

01:07:49 ◼   ► our equipment is underpowered,

01:07:54 ◼   ► but we're using it very well.

01:07:55 ◼   ► Like, I feel like that's always what Nintendo does.

01:07:58 ◼   ► And so far I've been pretty impressed

01:08:00 ◼   ► with the way things look on, both on Mario Kart and on Zelda, given the actual specifications

01:08:05 ◼   ► of the device that is connected to the TV. Like, it's pretty impressive. So I've been

01:08:10 ◼   ► liking it quite a lot, but it's been 90% Mario Kart, 10% Zelda.

01:08:16 ◼   ► Spend more time with Zelda. I have some other game recommendations for you though, and some

01:08:19 ◼   ► things to be excited about.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Please, please do.

01:08:21 ◼   ► Are you a Sonic person?

01:08:26 ◼   ► I'm happy to try some Sonic.

01:08:27 ◼   ► Have you played any Sonic in your life?

01:08:29 ◼   ► I played, I like vague vaguely when I was a kid I played Sonic.

01:08:32 ◼   ► So there is a game, it's just come out on a bunch of different platforms, but it came out like a couple of days ago called Sonic Mania.

01:08:38 ◼   ► Mhm.

01:08:39 ◼   ► And Sonic Mania was, has been developed, it's a Sega game, it's an official Sonic game.

01:08:44 ◼   ► But the person who made Sonic Mania had been making like Sonic fan games.

01:08:51 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:08:52 ◼   ► And they were so good, Sega hired them, and they were like, "Make the next Sonic."

01:08:56 ◼   ► That's what you want to do when you're hiring a thing.

01:08:59 ◼   ► It's like, find someone who's doing it amazingly for free and hire them.

01:09:02 ◼   ► And the Sonic franchise has struggled really badly over the years

01:09:06 ◼   ► as Sega have attempted and failed to modernize Sonic.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Right, by putting him in like 3D worlds and stuff.

01:09:12 ◼   ► This is a old school, may as well have been on the Mega Drive looking Sonic.

01:09:16 ◼   ► And it is sublime. It is so good.

01:09:21 ◼   ► And it's like £15. It's absolutely fantastic.

01:09:25 ◼   ► I recommend that one. There's a few games coming out some point this year that I think you'll be

01:09:29 ◼   ► excited about. Have you ever heard of Stardew Valley? People have recommended it to me,

01:09:36 ◼   ► but I don't actually have any familiarity with it. It is a farming simulator type game,

01:09:45 ◼   ► close to Animal Crossing in a way. And I think that it is a game that you will probably end up

01:09:54 ◼   ► liking because you know you're just farming right like that's kind of the idea but it's in this like

01:09:59 ◼   ► cool kind of retro art style and there are like little missions and things that you can complete

01:10:05 ◼   ► as well as just tending to your farm and growing the farm and building the relationships with the

01:10:08 ◼   ► people in the town and it's a game that has been incredibly popular on steam and it's coming to the

01:10:14 ◼   ► switch at some point this year that's one that's one i think that you should keep on your radar

01:10:19 ◼   ► because I think that you would like that game knowing the type of work games that you like.

01:10:25 ◼   ► This is like a really popular work game.

01:10:28 ◼   ► So that's one.

01:10:29 ◼   ► Myke Stowe - Farming.

01:10:31 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:10:32 ◼   ► It sounds boring, Myke.

01:10:33 ◼   ► That doesn't sound like it.

01:10:34 ◼   ► Myke Stowe - That doesn't sound as exciting as trucking.

01:10:36 ◼   ► Myke Stowe - No, it doesn't.

01:10:37 ◼   ► Not even close.

01:10:38 ◼   ► Myke Stowe - And there's a Mario game coming out called Mario Odyssey, which looks superb.

01:10:44 ◼   ► Like it just looks so good.

01:10:45 ◼   ► And people that have played it are like, "Mmm, maybe this is the game of the year and not

01:10:49 ◼   ► Zelda."

01:10:50 ◼   ► So that is mind-blowing to me that there could be a game better than Zelda, because I think

01:10:55 ◼   ► it's amazing.

01:10:57 ◼   ► Is it 3D Mario?

01:10:58 ◼   ► It's 3D.

01:10:59 ◼   ► It's 3D Mario.

01:11:00 ◼   ► I know, I know, I prefer 2D Mario, but 3D Mario games can be good, and this one looks

01:11:05 ◼   ► really weird in a great way.

01:11:08 ◼   ► I feel like in my own gaming history, where Nintendo and I parted ways, was with the N64

01:11:12 ◼   ► and with 3D Mario.

01:11:14 ◼   ► Like I just, I never crossed that bridge.

01:11:17 ◼   ► The perspective change.

01:11:19 ◼   ► Yeah, and it is also a thing genuinely in the Zelda game that I just find it,

01:11:25 ◼   ► sort of like we were talking about before, that there's a real skill to learning how to

01:11:30 ◼   ► indirectly control something in a video game using a hand controller as opposed to iPad games

01:11:35 ◼   ► where you're just touching things on the screen.

01:11:36 ◼   ► I think there is something about the like separate camera control versus character movement

01:11:44 ◼   ► that I just never feel perfectly comfortable with it.

01:11:48 ◼   ► And it is a thing that catches me out in Zelda all the time as well is the like,

01:11:52 ◼   ► Oh, I need to turn my guy and turn the camera at the same time.

01:11:56 ◼   ► Like I just, I find it weird and kind of,

01:12:01 ◼   ► I don't want to say clunky, but clunky is kind of what I, what I feel about it.

01:12:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:06 ◼   ► Whereas like I'm, I much prefer,

01:12:08 ◼   ► like I wish there was a button I could press where it's like,

01:12:10 ◼   ► can I just go into first person mode with Zelda? Like,

01:12:12 ◼   ► Why do I have to look at this guy? I don't want to look at him. Let the screen just be my eyes

01:12:17 ◼   ► Like it's doom or quake like that. That's what I want

01:12:20 ◼   ► But I so that's why I'm not super thrilled to hear about a 3d Mario

01:12:24 ◼   ► It's like I never I never crossed that bridge and the n64 and I we weren't we didn't get along. We weren't really friends

01:12:31 ◼   ► Super Nintendo that was that was the peak for me and that's where I that's where that's where I left Nintendo

01:12:36 ◼   ► hmm, well

01:12:39 ◼   ► I'll let you know what I think of it when it comes out, but that seems like it could be an issue for you.

01:12:44 ◼   ► Hmm. I think it could be. I think it could be Myke. I'm pleased that you have one though.

01:12:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean honestly just for Mario Kart, it's worth it because Mario Kart is so fun.

01:12:54 ◼   ► Like it really is.

01:12:57 ◼   ► But I have to say it is interesting because we were talking about pricing models last time about apps going

01:13:04 ◼   ► subscription like or doing pay up front and it is a it is a funny thing to

01:13:09 ◼   ► have a gaming system back in my life, which I haven't had since the Super Nintendo and

01:13:13 ◼   ► to

01:13:16 ◼   ► to see the prices that are required

01:13:19 ◼   ► for like real in-depth video games that are not going to have in-app purchase bullshit inside of them and

01:13:29 ◼   ► It's like I remember as a kid like video games felt really expensive and the Nintendo switch does bring that back to some extent

01:13:35 ◼   ► It's like oh boy these games are expensive. Yeah, but I like I I really feel

01:13:40 ◼   ► happy to

01:13:43 ◼   ► support that kind of stuff like I would much rather pay a bunch for a game and

01:13:47 ◼   ► Not feel like I'm being nickeled and dying and to death in the game

01:13:52 ◼   ► And it's like but if you if you want to make a game company that is sustainable

01:13:57 ◼   ► It's like you're gonna need to pay way more than you're used to on the iPad for these games

01:14:03 ◼   ► So it's like I don't I forget exactly what the price of Mario was but it was like woof

01:14:07 ◼   ► But I'm happy to do it. It would have been in probably around 40 pounds or something like it's a full ticket game

01:14:13 ◼   ► Right, like you're paying a big price, but these are experiences that won't exist otherwise, and I think they're worth it

01:14:19 ◼   ► Right, like I strongly believe in it

01:14:22 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what I mean to emphasize is like if you're if you were used to

01:14:27 ◼   ► two iPhone games like the Nintendo Switch is an expensive proposition, but one of the

01:14:33 ◼   ► reasons I like Nintendo is they feel very worth it as a company, like they make interesting

01:14:38 ◼   ► things, they make really fun things, and I think Mario Kart is just a great example of

01:14:44 ◼   ► that, of like a game that can be fun with a bunch of people, that can be relatively

01:14:49 ◼   ► approachable and fun for total newbies, so I am very happy to give Nintendo my money

01:14:55 ◼   ► when I have the opportunity to. And so now I have. I've done it with the Switch.

01:14:59 ◼   ► talking about things that you pay money for and get really good value out of Gray

01:15:03 ◼   ► oh look at you look at you Myke so we only ever talk about this once a year on

01:15:11 ◼   ► the show but it is possible if you would desire you can contribute your hard

01:15:17 ◼   ► earned money to this show and to other relay FM shows relay FM has a membership

01:15:22 ◼   ► program that has a bunch of benefits. You get a behind the scenes newsletter of everything

01:15:27 ◼   ► that's going on at Relay FM. We give previews of upcoming shows. There is a members only

01:15:31 ◼   ► podcast which we have every month with my co-founder Steven, who we've spoken about

01:15:36 ◼   ► a bit on this show. He brings together a couple of different Relay FM hosts that usually aren't

01:15:41 ◼   ► together and they talk about a big topic every month. And then the big thing that I want

01:15:45 ◼   ► to mention is our bonus episodes. And this is something that goes along with us talking

01:15:50 ◼   ► about the membership every year. A whole host of relay FM shows put together a bonus episode

01:15:55 ◼   ► of a show. We do a bunch of shows that like mashed together and create something cool

01:16:00 ◼   ► and awesome. And they happen throughout August and September. And last year, me and you and

01:16:06 ◼   ► Jason Snow, who is my co host on upgrade, we came together and we did a text adventure

01:16:10 ◼   ► called Six Gun Showdown. And it was fantastic. And we had a really great time where me and

01:16:15 ◼   ► you were traversing through the wild west and Jason was our computer and he was giving

01:16:21 ◼   ► and we had to give him commands to allow us to do things and we met Snakey and we died

01:16:25 ◼   ► a lot. That's what happened.

01:16:27 ◼   ► I gotta say too, just to interject here, I was very dubious about this proposition last

01:16:32 ◼   ► year as, I don't know if you remember all of the poking and prodding that you had to

01:16:37 ◼   ► do to get me to go along with this.

01:16:38 ◼   ► Oh I remember, it was a seven month process it took me to introduce.

01:16:41 ◼   ► I'm sure you've forgotten. I don't think it would have left a big impression on your mind.

01:16:44 ◼   ► I was very resistant and that was...

01:16:50 ◼   ► It ended up being just a really fun experience and a very different kind of thing to do.

01:16:54 ◼   ► And I really loved doing Six Gun Showdown last year.

01:16:58 ◼   ► Like it was super fun and I have to say the feedback that we got from the episode

01:17:02 ◼   ► is that people who were members and who listened to it...

01:17:05 ◼   ► It was as close to universal delight as you can get doing a podcast for people.

01:17:11 ◼   ► Like it was just a fun experience for everyone, so I was resistant, but it worked out really well in the end.

01:17:18 ◼   ► So this year it was way easier to convince Gray, because we did it again.

01:17:22 ◼   ► So that's the run-up too. We have done the same thing again, but with a different adventure.

01:17:28 ◼   ► We did another text adventure. You, me and Snell, we recorded it together a couple weeks ago.

01:17:33 ◼   ► You have been a busy, busy Myke editing it all together. You've sent me a few drafts.

01:17:39 ◼   ► you have, if I can say, gone above and beyond with adding in atmospheric sound effects.

01:17:46 ◼   ► This is a high production value text adventure that we have done in podcast format.

01:17:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm very proud of myself. I'm not gonna lie, I'm very proud of myself. I went high concept

01:17:56 ◼   ► with this one and I think I pulled it off. We participate in a text adventure called Spooky

01:18:02 ◼   ► mana. I think that's all you need to know really to assume what the the theme of the episode is,

01:18:10 ◼   ► but we do have a trailer so you can get an idea of the flavor which we're going to play at the end

01:18:14 ◼   ► of the episode. Now if you want to get access to spooky mana which is the the cortex bonus

01:18:21 ◼   ► and you also get six gun showdown along with so much bonus content it's almost overwhelming.

01:18:28 ◼   ► There is so much amazing stuff that happened last year that you can find in the feed that you'll get

01:18:33 ◼   ► sent along with all of the great specials that we've got happening this year. Spooky Manor,

01:18:38 ◼   ► the bonus for this show and for upgrade, will be published on Friday the 25th of August. So if you

01:18:44 ◼   ► become a member before then it will appear then if you become a member after that point you can just

01:18:49 ◼   ► go back and find the date it will be in the feed. You will be sent an email when you sign up which

01:18:53 ◼   ► has all of the information about how you can subscribe and it will take you off to a page

01:18:57 ◼   ► so you can go and do that. You can find out more at relay.fm/membership. But if you just want to

01:19:02 ◼   ► donate to this show, you can do that. You can donate to any show, no matter what show you

01:19:07 ◼   ► donate to, you get all the same perks. We would obviously love it if you chose Cortex, but you

01:19:12 ◼   ► can choose any relay.fm show. You can choose all the relay.fm shows and you can give an amount of

01:19:17 ◼   ► money that you choose either every month or every year. So relay.fm/membership to find out more.

01:19:23 ◼   ► We would really appreciate it. It just helps. It's a great thing and we try to give you some bonuses.

01:19:29 ◼   ► So you can look out for that and I promise you Spooky Manor is worth your money.

01:19:34 ◼   ► I'm very proud of it. I think we're all really proud of it. We worked hard on it

01:19:39 ◼   ► and I think that you're really, really going to enjoy it.

01:19:41 ◼   ► AO There are so many bonuses. You even forgot to mention one, Myke,

01:19:45 ◼   ► which is the 5K desktop wallpapers of Relay FM show artwork from members.

01:19:49 ◼   ► MIKE That's true.

01:19:49 ◼   ► AO So much. You can't even keep track of it.

01:19:52 ◼   ► I can't even. So if you become a Relay FM member, you also get sent a link to download

01:19:57 ◼   ► beautiful desktop wallpapers of every single Relay FM show. So you can put them and also

01:20:03 ◼   ► sometime in the future we're working on mobile versions as well. So the bonuses, they just

01:20:08 ◼   ► keep a coming. So we would really appreciate it if you became a Relay FM member and support

01:20:14 ◼   ► what we're doing here and we try and thank you in return by giving you access to some

01:20:19 ◼   ► cool stuff. So to play out this week's episode, here is a trailer for Spooky Manor. If you

01:20:24 ◼   ► want to become a member, read it as a fm/membership, choose your shows, and you'll be sent all

01:20:28 ◼   ► the information you need. Thanks if you support us, we really really appreciate it.

01:20:32 ◼   ► Thanks for listening everybody.

01:20:33 ◼   ► Beep boop, I will be your parser. We are going to be participating in Parsley, episode number

01:20:40 ◼   ► three.

01:20:41 ◼   ► Spooky Manor!

01:20:47 ◼   ► So my instinct right now is to unlock the padlock and wrap the chain around my fist.

01:20:53 ◼   ► Computer, is this something that you would permit?

01:20:56 ◼   ► There's no way the computer's gonna let you do that.

01:20:58 ◼   ► I don't understand, computer, is there something you would permit?

01:21:02 ◼   ► Okay.

01:21:03 ◼   ► You ride your bike north over the rough cobblestone path.

01:21:07 ◼   ► The bike's tires are horribly damaged as you drive to the north.

01:21:12 ◼   ► Yep.

01:21:13 ◼   ► So, uh...

01:21:14 ◼   ► You look at your tires and think to yourself, "Oh dear, how am I going to get home now?"

01:21:20 ◼   ► Alright, smash the pheasant with a chain.

01:21:24 ◼   ► I'm sorry, you can't do that.

01:21:25 ◼   ► Well, I mean, I can.

01:21:26 ◼   ► You haven't seen me with a chain.

01:21:28 ◼   ► I think you're missing the difference between a fantasy role-playing game and a text adventure.

01:21:32 ◼   ► Text adventures have cruel, unfeeling parsers that just reject you when you try interesting

01:21:36 ◼   ► things like smashing a pheasant on a table with a chain.

01:21:40 ◼   ► Okay, exit crypt?

01:21:43 ◼   ► You go into the crypt.

01:21:44 ◼   ► It smells of mold and decay, but its sole occupant appears perfectly preserved.

01:21:50 ◼   ► Uh, look at occupant?

01:21:52 ◼   ► The body of a pale young woman lies dead on a granite slab.

01:21:57 ◼   ► Around her neck is a front door key.

01:22:00 ◼   ► Oh no, wait, pull on Dante's Inferno.

01:22:03 ◼   ► Enter.

01:22:04 ◼   ► You pull on the copy of Dante's Inferno.

01:22:06 ◼   ► A chute opens beneath you and you fall down, down, down, far, far below.

01:22:14 ◼   ► Why can you not just wait?

01:22:17 ◼   ► I feel like I have achieved exactly what I wanted to do.

01:22:20 ◼   ► There is a monstrous wolf chained to the wall.

01:22:22 ◼   ► Jesus.

01:22:23 ◼   ► Okay, so there's a wolf.

01:22:27 ◼   ► If you would like to listen to your heroes traverse a tricky and terrifying trial, then

01:22:35 ◼   ► sign up today to become a Relay FM member.

01:22:38 ◼   ► Go to relay.fm/membership, select any show you like (but of course, it should be Cortex)

01:22:44 ◼   ► and you'll receive a link to our special bonus content including...

01:22:48 ◼   ► A SPOOOOOKY MANNER!

01:22:52 ◼   ► [Music]