55: Go for the Big Elephant


00:00:00   Hello Myke. Hi. Still traveling? Yeah I'm in Memphis, Tennessee right now.

00:00:04   I've been in New York, I've been in DC, I've been in Virginia.

00:00:08   And I still have New York left again. Ooh.

00:00:12   You are in the midst of travel. I am on like a serious CGP Grey

00:00:16   vision quest right now I think. Vision quest? I like this.

00:00:20   This is how, what I imagine they all are, right? You just

00:00:24   when you go on your graycations, that you're just going out to have the epiphany

00:00:28   that will then carry you through the next five years, which I assume is what happens every time.

00:00:32   I like this, I like this. My most recent travel, if any travel I have ever done was a vision quest,

00:00:37   this most recent trip was a vision quest. So I like this, I'm taking this on board.

00:00:40   But what I'm, I want to know, what I'm slightly concerned about is,

00:00:45   you've been traveling all over the place. Yep, two and a half weeks.

00:00:48   Two and a half weeks. What's the laundry situation like, Myke?

00:00:53   Laundry has been done twice.

00:00:55   Oh, okay.

00:00:56   Is the situation.

00:00:58   Before I divulge the circumstances under which I have received clean clothes,

00:01:03   I just want to just touch upon the...

00:01:07   We have more than a handful of listeners to this show.

00:01:10   Do you want to say how many listeners we have to the show, Myke?

00:01:13   No, we have lots.

00:01:14   Lots of people.

00:01:16   And we get lots of feedback for this show.

00:01:19   Like, undoubtedly.

00:01:20   We get lots of feedback and it's great.

00:01:21   And I love that our listeners respect the methods in which the feedback should be sent,

00:01:26   which is Reddit and Twitter. Like, I love that. And thank you to everybody that does that.

00:01:30   You make our lives so much easier by not sending us email.

00:01:33   I also feel like we have a real solutions-oriented audience.

00:01:37   Oh yeah, people are very good at sending suggestions for Grey to use OneNote.

00:01:43   That's solut- oh man, I loved the Reddit last time people were explaining it to you over again.

00:01:50   Bravo to anybody that did that like I love you so much. That was so funny

00:01:54   But I've received more feedback about doing laundry

00:01:58   Than one I ever expected in my life and two more than maybe most things we've ever gotten about this show

00:02:05   I have learned more about doing laundry in New York City than I think most people that live in New York

00:02:10   No, like so many ways like laundromats that I can use laundromats that will do this stuff for me

00:02:17   There are apparently entire services created with apps in New York to deal with the laundry situation of people in New York

00:02:25   It feels like New York has a particular laundry problem that I haven't worked out yet that like there are there needs to be so many

00:02:32   Solutions but there are like apps that you can use and they will come and pick it up and they'll do it and bring it back

00:02:38   Oh, that's fantastic. I know

00:02:40   There are also a couple of people that suggested washing my clothes in the sink

00:02:45   That's never a thing. I'm gonna do no

00:02:47   I just want to let everyone know this like so many things have to happen before I will wash my clothes in a sink

00:02:54   box of

00:02:56   detergent I really never want to do that because that just feels like I don't know like I feel like when I get to that situation

00:03:02   I've exhausted all other options and

00:03:05   There are so many more things I would want to try before washing them in the sink including like

00:03:12   Going to a laundromat on my own and getting it all wrong. Like I would do that before I wash them in a hotel sink

00:03:16   I just don't want to do that

00:03:18   Yeah, I know

00:03:20   That I have on occasion

00:03:23   washed clothes in a hotel sink I

00:03:26   Cannot remember the details

00:03:28   But it was exactly this that it's like I would only do this under the most dire of circumstances

00:03:34   But there is no other option left

00:03:36   I feel like most times that anybody would ever do this is a time that they can't remember the details like something terrible has happened

00:03:44   And now all they the only option they have left to them is

00:03:50   To pour some powder into a sink and like smoosh it around with your hand because I just feel like yeah

00:03:56   It's not efficient. Like it's not effective

00:03:58   I can feel like that that is a not effective way of washing the clothes either

00:04:01   So I feel like that I would try other things first

00:04:04   Yeah, it's I'm trying to remember. What are the worst laundry situations I've ever had while traveling and it's like

00:04:09   I can't remember the details of why I wash clothes in a sink

00:04:12   I know I've thrown out clothes on a trip because it's just like oh, this is terrible

00:04:18   Like I'm not even gonna try to wash these clothes

00:04:20   But I can't remember why I ever wash it in a sink, but it's not a good solution. It's not a good solution

00:04:25   Yeah, I feel like I would be more inclined to go to like a supermarket and buy really cheap replacement clothes

00:04:31   first, you know? But anyway, I'm sure that there are many reasons like for example

00:04:36   Let's imagine that I was going on a really important business meeting and I somehow spilt ketchup on my t-shirt

00:04:41   or like on my button-down shirt and it's the only one that I have and I'm like in a pinch and I'm just gonna go

00:04:47   To the sink and use some salt like, you know to get a little stain out or something

00:04:50   I totally get that but the idea of me taking two weeks of clothes and throwing them in the bathtub as a way to attempt

00:04:56   to wash my clothes

00:04:57   That just doesn't feel like something that I want to do like it just because where are they gonna dry?

00:05:02   Like I don't have any way of doing this

00:05:05   Like I totally get that someone might do it for one item of clothing one time because of a disaster

00:05:10   But I was talking like I'm talking about all of the clothes that I have for like ten days

00:05:15   Turning them over and I feel like washing them in the sink is not the way to do that. It doesn't scale so

00:05:22   Okay, look against all advice that I have received

00:05:27   Except from you.

00:05:29   All of the advice...

00:05:30   I was gonna say, I think except from me.

00:05:32   All of the advice that I received, people told me to use any other solution than getting my clothes washed and laundered by the hotel.

00:05:43   Yeah, I do want to specify that. I think I was clear in the last episode that getting it washed by the hotel is the laziest option.

00:05:51   This is why it is also my first choice, is laziness.

00:05:56   Okay, and this is why I did it because this so I I in New York City, I have my clothes

00:06:02   laundered by the hotel. I did that. The reason that I did this is like is there's there's

00:06:08   multiple little reasons that all that are up to just laziness. It was the middle of

00:06:12   the week, I realized that I my planning had not been good and I ran out of clothes quicker

00:06:17   than I expected. Yep. So it was like the middle of the week that I was in New York had already

00:06:20   been in America for nearly 10 days at this point. I ran out of clothes faster than expected.

00:06:26   because also the weather wasn't as I planned it for so I needed to have my

00:06:31   clothes washed. I was heading out to a meeting and it would have just been so

00:06:37   much easier for me to have the clothes completed by the time that I returned in

00:06:42   the evening. Rather than having to somehow find a space in either that day

00:06:46   or the next day and then like needing to wear dirty clothes and it just was like

00:06:50   I'm just going to get it done by the hotel.

00:06:53   This was a mistake.

00:06:54   This was a big mistake.

00:06:57   Did they not clean your clothes?

00:06:58   They cleaned them great.

00:06:59   Uh, I put a picture in our show notes, which I will also include for our

00:07:04   listeners of how the clothes were returned for me.

00:07:06   Oh yes.

00:07:07   Look at that.

00:07:08   Yeah.

00:07:08   You got, you get the nice little wrapped box with blue ribbon on them, which was

00:07:11   very nice.

00:07:12   You know why you get your clothes in a little box with ribbons around it?

00:07:16   Because of how much they charge you great.

00:07:18   So it feels fancy.

00:07:21   And you know what?

00:07:22   This is a trick that totally works on me

00:07:23   every time I have it done in a hotel.

00:07:25   My hotel, like when the laundry comes back

00:07:28   in the little box with some tissue paper around it,

00:07:31   I think, ooh, look at this.

00:07:32   - I got to feel like a Mr. Fancy Pants when I came back.

00:07:35   - Exactly.

00:07:35   - That was until I take the first box off the top

00:07:39   and I am left with the bill.

00:07:41   So leading up to this point, a couple of things occurred.

00:07:46   So you have to complete the the order yourself.

00:07:49   You top up all the things that you're giving to them, give them a total.

00:07:52   And then you add it all up. Right.

00:07:54   How many socks, how many shirts?

00:07:55   Yeah. One problem that I had is there was no T-shirts entry on this form.

00:08:00   So I went with undershirts

00:08:04   as a thing, because I figured that's the closest to a T-shirt.

00:08:08   Like this isn't a button down shirt.

00:08:10   You don't need to be careful with it.

00:08:11   You don't need to fold it in any specific way.

00:08:13   So I figured I'll go with undershirts.

00:08:16   the hotel decided that they would class them as t-shirts and then create a price entry

00:08:21   which is about twice the amount. So when I was filling out the form it was already expensive

00:08:30   but when it came back it was far too expensive and of course these forms say whatever we

00:08:37   We say, you pay, effectively.

00:08:40   So I am embarrassed, very embarrassed by the amount of money that I had to spend getting

00:08:50   my laundry done.

00:08:51   I have learned a very valuable life lesson and I also think that the majority of my clothes

00:08:59   were ever so slightly smaller than when they were sent off and of course the form also

00:09:05   says, "Yolo, that might happen, right?" Like, might shrink a little bit. So...

00:09:11   Right, they bear no responsibility for the laundry that they are cleaning.

00:09:14   So I will stand with my arms extended, like out to my sides to our listeners and say,

00:09:22   "You were right, and I was wrong, and I am stupid for doing this." Because I spent

00:09:30   an embarrassing amount of money to have my clothes slightly shrunk.

00:09:35   That's what I did and I will never do this again.

00:09:38   I haven't worked out what I'm going to do.

00:09:41   Well, OK, I will never do this again for the amount of clothes that I did it for.

00:09:46   Hmm. Right. OK.

00:09:49   So if I have like a shirt that needs to be ironed and pressed and all that,

00:09:54   I may pay $10 to get that done.

00:09:56   But like I had a week's worth of clothes cleaned.

00:09:59   I'm never going to do that again by the hotel unless like if I need to do it.

00:10:05   So in my hotel's time going to next, I will check the prices.

00:10:08   And if it's very cheap for some silly reason, it's not going to be.

00:10:12   But it's never going to be.

00:10:13   It's never it's never going to be.

00:10:15   After this, I started looking into a little bit more like why is it the price that it is?

00:10:19   And it turns out because business people get this stuff done

00:10:23   and just charge it to their company and then they're good to go.

00:10:26   Right. Because it's all expenses based.

00:10:28   so nobody cares how much it costs.

00:10:30   Is Relay going to be covering the cost of your laundry, Myke?

00:10:33   There is no way that I would present this bill to my company purely because it would

00:10:38   be laughed at and I would never receive the money.

00:10:45   I don't know, Myke. I just... This is the lazy option. The lazy option, as is so always

00:10:51   the case, the expensive option.

00:10:54   I expected that.

00:10:55   Right? I expected it to be more expensive.

00:10:59   - So now, I guess what I need to know here, Myke,

00:11:02   is what's the number?

00:11:04   Because I feel like you're squirmy and evasive

00:11:08   over the microphone.

00:11:09   - I can't do it, Gray.

00:11:10   I cannot tell the world the amount of money this cost me.

00:11:15   I can't do it.

00:11:15   - You have a real emotional attachment

00:11:19   to the cost of your laundry here, Myke.

00:11:20   - It's the embarrassment of it.

00:11:22   It's not the--

00:11:23   but I feel like you need to cleanse your soul of this number.

00:11:27   I'll tell you. So I want to just tell you, okay, I had maybe seven t-shirts, a pair of shorts,

00:11:34   maybe six or seven pairs of undershorts as they were named, which I found funny,

00:11:38   and like a handful of socks and one button-down shirt. That was kind of the

00:11:42   total amount of items that I had cleaned.

00:11:45   Okay.

00:11:46   All right, are you ready?

00:11:47   I'm ready.

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00:13:26   to casper.com/cortex and using cortex at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. I'd like to thank

00:13:32   Casper for their support of this show. Yeah, I don't know. It's getting your laundry done

00:13:36   in New York. I don't think that seems too crazy. I can't tell people the amount of money.

00:13:43   Look, Myke, if you need to, you can bleep that out, right?

00:13:46   But you also have the problem that, what I didn't specify last time when I was giving you the advice about do the laundry at the hotel,

00:13:53   I'm used to really big numbers here because I'm always the guy doing the rush job with the laundry.

00:13:59   Because when I'm traveling, I feel like this, again, this for me is one of these cases where

00:14:03   when I am traveling, especially in the last couple of years, it is largely for business or for a particular purpose.

00:14:10   and I feel like my time is valuable in a place and also I just can't deal with the details of anything

00:14:16   and so I am often in the situation where I have totally forgotten about laundry until the last possible second

00:14:22   and then not only am I filling out their ridiculously mafioso monopoly expensive form about how much the laundry is going to cost

00:14:30   I also tick the box which says "I need it as soon as you can"

00:14:35   Which as far as I can tell just gives them a license to write whatever number they can in the in the little laundry

00:14:41   Okay, so I really wish I would have been given this little piece of information

00:14:44   Because the thing is I agree with everything you say I think that

00:14:49   Part of the reason we're able to have these conversations is I agree with that logic, right?

00:14:54   Like I had stuff to do I didn't have the time which is why I got it done in the first place

00:14:58   But I just don't think that I was mentally prepared for the amount of money. This is gonna cost me

00:15:03   me. If I have bleeped the amount of money out, dear listener, just understand that I

00:15:13   just don't want you to think bad of me, right? Understand that I was a man caught out by

00:15:19   a system in which he could not control and he did something silly and he's never going

00:15:26   to do it again and we can all make mistakes because now I have done more washing and I

00:15:31   I have completed that washing in the home of my co-founder and I have used really weird

00:15:36   machines that American people have.

00:15:40   For example, we were talking about doing, Stephen was helping me with his washing machine

00:15:45   and I was like, yeah, I usually set it to 30 degrees.

00:15:47   He's like, I can't, I have no idea.

00:15:49   I can't help you.

00:15:50   This machine doesn't go by temperature.

00:15:54   And like just things like how to, when I was loading the washing machine, water was already

00:15:58   in the machine.

00:15:59   What is this voodoo?

00:16:00   I don't understand. Like, I put with my washing machine, everything goes in, I close the door,

00:16:07   I choose the temperature, and I press go, and then it starts. I was adding laundry to

00:16:11   a machine that was already in motion.

00:16:13   Oh yeah, okay. I got, yeah, it's one of those top loading agitators. Yeah, I know that.

00:16:19   This is what I can't understand. Like, I just, I don't, this is what I knew was going to

00:16:23   happen to me if I tried to do it on my own, that I would be faced with by one of these

00:16:27   machines that I don't understand how to use.

00:16:29   No, it's great. It's like a cement mixer. You can just keep throwing more stuff in as

00:16:33   the laundry machine goes. It's fantastic.

00:16:36   Do you understand, like I'm sure you have used a European style machine, or like machines

00:16:42   I'm sure they exist in America.

00:16:44   I have one not five feet away from where I'm recording this podcast.

00:16:48   But do you see why I've been apprehensive about this? Because it's effectively using

00:16:53   a machine type that I've never used before for the only clothes that I own here, right?

00:16:59   Like I'm putting everything that I can wear into a machine I don't understand.

00:17:03   You seem to have some psychological issues around laundry. While I'm happy to make fun

00:17:07   of you publicly and privately for these laundry issues that you seem to have, I also again

00:17:14   totally get it that this is the kind of thing that when you're traveling is more anxiety

00:17:18   inducing than it would be otherwise. It's not something that you really want to deal

00:17:22   with because you have other things that you're doing and you just like little things that

00:17:28   are different can be surprisingly derailing when you're traveling so I will make fun of

00:17:33   you but I am also underneath I am sympathetic.

00:17:36   Because it's like I'm not a Luddite. I can work these things out but it is the idea of

00:17:42   like I just want it to be done and I don't want anything to go wrong right this is the

00:17:49   So I don't know how I'm going to wash my clothes

00:17:52   for the rest of my trip when I'm back in New York,

00:17:55   but I know I'm not using the hotel.

00:17:57   Next up, I'm gonna look into these services

00:18:00   that will apparently come and collect my clothes.

00:18:02   'Cause people tell me that this stuff is not as expensive

00:18:05   as it might seem to be.

00:18:06   So what I know is it's not gonna be more expensive

00:18:09   than getting it done in the hotel.

00:18:11   - Well, I mean, like an app sounds fantastic for laundry.

00:18:14   And that also seems the case of,

00:18:17   There is actual competition there which could drive down the prices

00:18:21   And there's also economies of scale that a hotel doesn't have in the same way for doing the laundry

00:18:25   So this this this seems great

00:18:28   I remember vaguely wondering if there were

00:18:30   apps that could do your laundry for you and it sounds like they exist in New York at the very least and

00:18:35   I will I will probably look after this podcast to see if they exist in London. I think they do actually

00:18:40   Amazing so

00:18:43   Part of all of this why the laundry is such a big thing

00:18:46   is, it's like disruption to my life whilst I am in a situation where I'm in a place for

00:18:55   work, you know? What we have lovingly referred to as "grecations". Like I'm here in different

00:19:00   places and I have my regular work commitments to keep up with plus additional things that

00:19:06   I'm doing. I've decided that I would like to refer to this in my parlance as a "hurly

00:19:11   You have your gradations and I have my early days. That's how they work.

00:19:17   And so that's what I have been on over the last couple of weeks and this is still going to continue.

00:19:21   But during these times, like you, I don't have my usual things around me.

00:19:27   So when I have to deal with what would be a chore, like my regular chores,

00:19:33   I want it to be easy because I don't have my way of doing it.

00:19:38   like my muscle memory, just the things I don't have to think about. I don't want them to

00:19:43   be things I now have to think about because I'm already adding additional work into my

00:19:48   life by being here. It's one of the reasons I'm here. I don't want to then have to add

00:19:53   this whole other layer of like relearning how to do things that I already know how to

00:19:59   do. Right?

00:20:00   B: Yeah, well, when you're traveling, you have less ability to deal with disruption,

00:20:05   if you change countries. Like I was traveling in Germany a while ago and a couple things

00:20:11   came up that I need to do some essentially some errand type things and realize immediately

00:20:16   I have no idea what stores to go to to accomplish these errands, right? Whereas in London it'd

00:20:21   be like, "Oh, I just need to pop into a Boots, right? I can just do this or I'll go to a Walgreens

00:20:26   in America," right?

00:20:27   I love that you use Boots because to an American this is like it's like the most English sounding

00:20:31   store that our equivalent of Walmart is called Boots. That's what it's called. We have

00:20:38   Boots.

00:20:39   Yeah, I'd say that it's a Walgreens equivalent.

00:20:42   Okay. Yeah, no, Wal-Mart. I get those confused because they have the exact same start to

00:20:46   their name. It's Walgreens. Like, it's like a big chemist that also does some other

00:20:50   stuff.

00:20:51   Yeah, exactly. It's the miscellaneous store that has a whole bunch of stuff. And yeah,

00:20:56   so I remember I was just in Germany, like, I have no idea where to go for a bunch of

00:21:01   these tiny items that I know would be all together out of boots but now this is turning

00:21:06   into a big hassle. I was like, "How do I search on maps for where to buy Q-tips? I don't understand

00:21:12   how do I find this piece of information?"

00:21:14   I cannot search for the contents of a store in Google Maps.

00:21:21   That is what I want. I need scotch tape. Where do I acquire this item? I have no idea.

00:21:28   These are the types of things I just don't want to do.

00:21:31   Plus it kind of like just makes things more difficult.

00:21:34   And I have had something happen to me, Gray, which has ruined all of my systems and I don't

00:21:40   know what to do.

00:21:42   I have lost two button-down shirts somehow on this trip.

00:21:47   Now this is not the end of the world.

00:21:51   When I go back to New York, I'm going to go to a store and I'm going to buy myself a new

00:21:54   shirt.

00:21:55   problem is I didn't know I had lost them. I'm supposed to have a system that prevents this.

00:22:01   The system has failed. What do you count your shirts out and in of your suitcase every time?

00:22:08   I have a packing system, right? Like I have a system of packing and when I leave a hotel

00:22:13   a system of checking. And one of those has failed me to the point where I have lost two-thirds of

00:22:20   of the shirts that I brought with me.

00:22:22   And I don't know how this happened

00:22:25   because I have a memory

00:22:27   of not removing them from my suitcase.

00:22:30   So where are they?

00:22:32   Right, like I have been honestly losing my mind

00:22:35   about this over the last couple of days

00:22:36   because I cannot work out where they are.

00:22:40   Plus I have this whole conspiracy theory thing

00:22:42   going on as well.

00:22:43   - Oh, okay, okay.

00:22:45   Well, I mean, before--

00:22:46   (laughing)

00:22:47   Like before we get to your conspiracy theory,

00:22:50   I think it is good advice for anybody traveling that you just assume that as you move around

00:22:59   you leave behind you a detritus of the objects that you have brought with you.

00:23:04   And it's impossible to track them perfectly.

00:23:06   Like you always leave stuff behind.

00:23:09   Yeah, okay.

00:23:10   It just happens.

00:23:11   I know this is the case but I—

00:23:12   There's like shirts—

00:23:13   The reason this is concerning for me—

00:23:15   Pants.

00:23:16   Yeah.

00:23:17   People.

00:23:18   Sometimes you leave them behind.

00:23:19   that that's not a thing. The reason this is concerning for me is because the

00:23:24   system in which I use to ensure that I have packed my clothing is the same

00:23:29   system in which I use to ensure that I've packed everything. And on this trip

00:23:33   I have a lot of relatively expensive audio equipment that is not easy to

00:23:38   replace in a flash. I may not realize I have lost something in this whole setup

00:23:44   up until it is too late and I am about to record a show. So like this is my concern,

00:23:51   right? It's not that I have lost the shirts because shirts are replaceable easily and also I can just

00:23:57   wear something else, right? Like I'm fine but it is the concern that I have now that my system and

00:24:03   my mental models of making sure I have packed everything have failed me and that could result

00:24:08   in the losing of something more important. When I am only halfway through this and I have lost a

00:24:13   significant amount of things already. What's your plan of action?

00:24:18   Something else may be lost, Gray, and I just don't know what it is yet!

00:24:21   I mean you'll find out in an inconvenient moment, but what is your,

00:24:24   what's your plan of action here, Myke? I don't have one. Okay. Did your system

00:24:29   involve touching each of the shirts and counting them as you packed and unpacked

00:24:34   them? Well no, because I didn't have a number associated to these things, so

00:24:38   maybe now I need to do that, but it's already too late now, right? Because I can

00:24:42   count the number of things that I have but it doesn't mean I have everything.

00:24:45   This is the problem. I can only fix this for the next time I leave home. For where

00:24:51   I am now, I can count everything that I have and it will help me for the rest of

00:24:54   the trip, but I can't count what's already lost and who knows what's lost.

00:24:58   It could be everything.

00:25:00   I think it's very unlikely that it's everything, Myke. I think you have a suitcase full of things.

00:25:04   I live with Shoding a suitcase right now.

00:25:06   I feel like you have been traveling too long. This is a very long trip for you

00:25:12   and you are spiraling out of control. That's what this is. I feel like I'm listening to a man on the

00:25:22   edge and it's like, "Oh poor Myke, he was not meant to travel by himself for this long."

00:25:26   I don't know if I was supposed to. I don't know how you felt the first time you did this,

00:25:33   but I have ramped up significantly. The most I've ever been away is like a week at a time,

00:25:38   and I went for five. I feel like I maybe went...

00:25:42   I hurtled towards the sun, Gray, and I think I got burnt a little bit along the way.

00:25:47   I can't say that I'm too surprised, because...

00:25:52   We have had some conversations about our various, like, relations with people, like, and socializing and all the rest of this, and...

00:26:01   You have always said things that make me think, like, maybe you shouldn't be alone for a really long time.

00:26:07   time you're like oh you've asked me oh don't get lonely so I haven't been

00:26:11   spending the amount of time alone you spend we'll talk about that in a bit but

00:26:15   like the way that I have structured these trips I'm not alone so much mm-hmm

00:26:18   it's just away from my usual norms I think is the problem for me and I've

00:26:24   ever done it five weeks is too much you're a creature of habit then perhaps

00:26:29   yeah maybe and you're all frazzled at the edges you've got your first sticking

00:26:34   up in funny directions like you're all ungroomed and missing two shirts.

00:26:38   I was fine until the shirts. The shirts were what pushed me over the edge because now it's

00:26:43   like the things that I think are written down and set in stone they're failing me now and

00:26:48   so now I don't know what to do.

00:26:50   I'm just worried that you're gonna like in another week you're gonna be like an obsessive

00:26:55   compulsive vampire constantly counting and recounting all of the things in your suitcase

00:27:00   but I don't know what to tell you man because you've got another two weeks to go.

00:27:03   I enjoyed your choice of vampire. That was good. It's foreshadowing.

00:27:08   It is foreshadowing, Myke.

00:27:09   Foreshadowing.

00:27:10   Yeah.

00:27:11   Okay, so I have one week and two days until it all gets better again, and then I have

00:27:16   another week. Because in one week and two days, Idina is coming to join me, and then

00:27:20   she can sort me out, right?

00:27:22   Okay.

00:27:23   I can be fixed by this point. She's just, she's already saying to me that, like, as

00:27:29   can imagine, my reaction to the shirts, I am overreacting. I am very aware of the fact

00:27:34   that I am overreacting, but there is nothing I can do about it now. I am in the zone. I

00:27:40   know that losing a shirt shouldn't spiral you out of control, but there's nothing I

00:27:44   can do about this.

00:27:46   It is true that telling someone they are overreacting is exactly 0% useful.

00:27:52   Because I know I am already.

00:27:53   Exactly. The people who are overreacting, they often know that's not the problem. It's

00:27:58   It's not a knowledge problem, right?

00:28:00   It's a something else problem.

00:28:02   You don't even know about my conspiracy theory yet.

00:28:05   Well yeah, I was gonna circle back to this in a mere moment.

00:28:09   I wasn't gonna let that casual comment go unmined for podcast content of how is Myke

00:28:17   losing his mind while traveling for an entire two weeks.

00:28:21   I shouldn't be talking to you about all of this.

00:28:24   This should have stayed in.

00:28:25   Oh no.

00:28:26   Do you want to know? Do you want me to tell you what happened?

00:28:30   You have to tell me what this conspiracy thing is.

00:28:32   I arrived in New York City. It's just us, Myke.

00:28:35   I arrived in New York City at Penn Station and I had to get to Times Square.

00:28:43   I arrived in New York City to atrocious rain. Like, it was really badly raining.

00:28:51   I have a really heavy suitcase.

00:28:53   I made my way to the subway.

00:28:56   My first, I think it's the first time

00:28:59   I've ever rode the subway on my own.

00:29:00   And that's like a whole other thing

00:29:01   about how confusing I find the New York subway

00:29:04   compared to the London tube.

00:29:05   - I will give you that one.

00:29:06   Even as someone who had experience with the New York subway

00:29:10   as a much younger self,

00:29:12   it is a much less user-friendly situation

00:29:17   than the London Underground.

00:29:18   I won't necessarily say more difficult,

00:29:20   I'll just say less user-friendly, I think is the way I would put it.

00:29:23   I have become more adept at navigating it now, but like initially when I just thought

00:29:28   that I was gonna be able to just go, like just go, that's not the case.

00:29:33   You can't just go.

00:29:34   No, no, no.

00:29:35   You can't just go, Myke.

00:29:36   It's like, are you going uptown or downtown?

00:29:37   You have to know.

00:29:39   If you don't know, you are screwed.

00:29:42   So I made my way and I did what I had to do and I got to the hotel. I arrive at the hotel,

00:29:52   have him walk through the rain. I'm dripping right onto the floor of the hotel. I met with

00:29:58   the check-in guy and he has a sense of humor. He's a funny guy and he's checking me in and

00:30:08   He's like, you know, can I have your ID and your card?

00:30:11   I'm like, sure, I'll give him my ID,

00:30:12   I'll give him my credit card so he can,

00:30:14   they can do whatever it is they need to do with all that stuff.

00:30:16   I don't fully understand why I have to give anybody my ID at a hotel,

00:30:19   but like this is a thing you have to do in America.

00:30:21   Yeah, I don't get that either.

00:30:22   I don't know why, like, just let me pay for, I paid you for the room, like I don't, anyway.

00:30:28   Yeah, it seems very strange, like, do I need to give my ID at a restaurant?

00:30:32   Like, why, I don't understand why here I need my ID.

00:30:36   but they do, so they take the ID.

00:30:38   And so he's checking me in and he just says,

00:30:40   "What is your email address?"

00:30:41   And I said, "Why do you need my email address?"

00:30:46   And he's just like, "Oh, we put it into the system."

00:30:49   I was like, "No."

00:30:49   Then he said, "What if you lose something

00:30:55   and we need to contact you?"

00:30:56   - Oh, I see where this is going, okay.

00:30:57   Yeah, I can see where the crazy begins, okay, yep.

00:31:00   - And I said to him, "It's okay.

00:31:03   I don't, I don't, I will, you know, you can contact me in other ways. Like, I don't want

00:31:08   to give you my email address." And he's like, "Okay." And he's making these jokes.

00:31:11   So there is a part of me that is like, "Did he steal my shirts?"

00:31:14   Because he, it was, he was so insistent on if I lose something,

00:31:24   right? And because he made a joke about it. He's like, "Oh, well, it'll be lost then."

00:31:31   And the thing is, Greg, here's the thing.

00:31:34   When I was in DC, I didn't unpack.

00:31:38   So I know I didn't take the shirts out when I was in DC,

00:31:40   because I was only there for a couple of days.

00:31:42   When I was in New York, I was there for a week,

00:31:44   and I did unpack.

00:31:45   - It's certainly not that unpacking dramatically

00:31:48   increases the likelihood of losing something.

00:31:50   - But I know, but this is the thing, right?

00:31:52   So like, I am at an impasse of either

00:31:55   my system of checking the room is bad,

00:31:58   or the check-in assistant stole two shirts from me.

00:32:02   And right now, they are both upsetting in their own way.

00:32:07   - They're both upsetting, but like all good conspiracy theories,

00:32:10   you clearly want to believe that the shirts were stolen versus your system has failed you.

00:32:17   - It is better for me to feel that the man stole from me.

00:32:21   - That's basically what conspiracy theories are, right?

00:32:23   They are attractive sets of ideas that you kind of want to be true, like, "Ooh!"

00:32:28   - Ooh, this would be much better than my system failing.

00:32:32   - I would far prefer it.

00:32:34   - As a slight side tangent at the hotels

00:32:36   when they ask for all your information,

00:32:38   this is why I have learned to just

00:32:41   give them false information, right?

00:32:42   Because I used to do the like,

00:32:43   why do you need my phone number?

00:32:45   Why do you need my email address thing?

00:32:46   Why do you need my home address?

00:32:49   Like any of these information that these places ask,

00:32:51   now I just make stuff up.

00:32:52   I just put down fake numbers.

00:32:53   It's like, whatever.

00:32:55   Never has caused a problem and it just gets us

00:32:58   past this "you want to build your email list" like hotel I will never visit again, that's what's occurring here.

00:33:04   So yeah, I just give them information that's not true.

00:33:07   [sigh]

00:33:09   That's fine. Just a fake email address, Myke. That's what you need.

00:33:12   Yeah, but then they would email me if I lost the things and it would never come back to me, would it?

00:33:16   They might at least call.

00:33:18   Look, if there's something important at the hotel, they can get in touch with you.

00:33:22   When I check into a hotel, I give them all the fake information for like, "Oh, what's your email address?

00:33:27   What's your phone number? Right?

00:33:28   Because if they need to get in touch they can do it.

00:33:30   And I also, when I go into the room, there are several things that I do to get a hotel room ready for me.

00:33:36   But one of those things includes unplugging the phone in the wall.

00:33:39   Because I'd be like, "I don't want you to call me."

00:33:41   Randomly, with something I probably don't really care about.

00:33:44   Do you check for bugs? Check the lamps and stuff?

00:33:47   No, I don't check the lamps for bugs.

00:33:49   You do a sweep?

00:33:51   No, I don't do a sweep.

00:33:53   That would be crazy.

00:33:54   I have to get it ready for me like nothing enters I go in with a hood and then I unplug

00:33:59   I unplug the phone I check the lamp for bugs. No, that's crazy Myke. Of course. Yeah

00:34:04   Crazy crazy crazy. Yeah pro tip though for anybody who does want to unplug the phones that the the hotel desk doesn't bother you with

00:34:12   their dumb phone calls

00:34:14   If it is a cordless phone make sure to take the battery out of the phone as well because it will start beeping in

00:34:19   in about 24 hours when the battery begins to run down.

00:34:22   It'll go beep beep to let you know,

00:34:23   "Ooh, need to charge me."

00:34:24   So pull that battery out the back of the phone,

00:34:27   unplug the phone from the wall,

00:34:29   and you have a nice quiet hotel room.

00:34:31   No one will bother you.

00:34:32   And if it's really important,

00:34:33   they'll catch you when you're walking past the front desk.

00:34:35   That has always been my experience.

00:34:36   - Okay.

00:34:37   Maybe what I need to do is set up an email address

00:34:40   that I never check, but it's there.

00:34:43   So if I have lost something,

00:34:45   I can just go log in for that email account

00:34:47   and check that address.

00:34:48   but it's full of emails from the Gap and this hotel chain.

00:34:51   There you go, life hack.

00:34:53   So we're all about in the show.

00:34:55   - Yeah, great.

00:34:55   Fantastic. - Yeah, I'm in a,

00:34:57   just a real pickle.

00:34:58   I'm in a, I called the hotel.

00:34:59   They said they didn't find anything.

00:35:01   I don't believe them.

00:35:03   And this is where I am in my life, Gray.

00:35:05   It's not good.

00:35:06   It's not good.

00:35:07   - I don't wanna put an idea in your mind,

00:35:08   but I'm pretty sure that when you called,

00:35:10   the guy who answered was wearing your shirt at the time.

00:35:13   - Oh, they were, I know it.

00:35:14   They were nice shirts too.

00:35:17   Yeah, let it go, Myke.

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00:37:16   Alright Myke, tell me now.

00:37:19   I know we've had a fascinating discussion about your slowly unravelling mental state.

00:37:24   But what are you doing in America right now?

00:37:28   What are you there for?

00:37:30   I want to know.

00:37:31   Tell me.

00:37:32   So many things, Gray.

00:37:33   So I have attended a pen show.

00:37:36   Of course.

00:37:37   And you know what a pen show is by now, right?

00:37:39   Like you know.

00:37:40   Yeah, it's a show where you can buy pens.

00:37:43   Yes, it's like a big place where you can go and you can buy pens.

00:37:45   And I have a show all about pens called The Pen Addict and we do a Kickstarter every year

00:37:50   and for us to go to different shows and we go and we record live shows there.

00:37:54   Actually, we're doing three this year, which is wild.

00:37:57   So I was at the DC Pen Show.

00:37:59   Wait, are you doing three live pen shows?

00:38:01   Is that what you're saying?

00:38:02   Three live episodes of The Pen Addict because of the Kickstarter campaign.

00:38:07   It's a North American tour. We're going to be in Chicago in October.

00:38:10   That's amazing. That's fantastic.

00:38:13   I live a really weird life. It's kind of beautiful.

00:38:16   So I was in DC for the pen show, then I went to New York,

00:38:20   and that was just purely like I'm waiting.

00:38:23   It was like a holding pattern because I'm in Memphis right now,

00:38:26   which is where Steven, my co-founder, lives, and we get together every year

00:38:30   because it's Real AFM's birthday in August.

00:38:33   We're actually going to talk a little bit about that at the end of the show.

00:38:36   So, but it's good for me and him to get together every year because we get to work in the same

00:38:42   place which is just nice, but we also get to like think about our company, you know,

00:38:47   and talk through stuff like that together which is really useful.

00:38:50   And we kind of set some goals and set some objectives and some things we'd like to achieve

00:38:55   in the next year.

00:38:56   So that's always a good thing to do.

00:38:58   So I've been here for that and I leave Memphis in a couple of days.

00:39:03   But before you zoom on though, so you two are hanging out as co-founders of Relay together.

00:39:11   How long are you guys spending together?

00:39:12   A week.

00:39:13   That's good.

00:39:14   Like that's a good amount of time so that you're around but it doesn't feel like you

00:39:18   have to rush everything together.

00:39:21   And I would suspect that that's also the, like that's a good amount of time that you

00:39:25   can rehash or like revisit thoughts a few times and bounce them off of each other.

00:39:32   Yeah.

00:39:33   Like, I think it's really interesting that you guys do this.

00:39:39   I know people who are essentially like remote co-founders of various things, but I know

00:39:46   very very few people who do the "we're going to be intentionally together as co-founders

00:39:52   on a regular basis" thing.

00:39:55   I think that's such a great idea because...

00:39:58   It's so important.

00:39:59   Yeah, it really, really is.

00:40:02   It really matters to be in person to discuss things like this, and especially when you

00:40:08   own a company together.

00:40:09   Yeah, like it's so easy for us to work remotely, right?

00:40:12   Like it works perfectly, like our business is structured and set up to actually be more

00:40:17   effective because it's remote.

00:40:19   But for us not to get together with the explicit idea of talking about the company and thinking

00:40:25   about it and being like that's that seems like a really just obvious thing and like to not do that

00:40:32   seems like it would be a real mistake like we see each other a lot every year but it's in other

00:40:38   circumstances there is another thing happening so an idea may pop up or whatever but in this time

00:40:43   like i'm here i'm staying in steven's house with his family we're spending like we're the best of

00:40:49   friends, right? So like it's all so nice to do that. But whilst we're also at the zoo together,

00:40:55   I can mention a thing and it's like, "Oh yeah, that's a really good idea. We'll talk about that."

00:41:00   And then we can come back to it later on. Because ideas, you know, if you work on anything,

00:41:06   no matter whether it's just your job or a side project or whatever, ideas, they happen all the

00:41:13   time of a thing. You're like, "Oh, I've cracked it." Or, "Oh, I've had this great idea." And being

00:41:18   in the same physical location as the person that should hear those ideas is very valuable.

00:41:24   Very valuable.

00:41:25   No, I think it's great that you do it and I just wanted to focus on it for a moment because I feel

00:41:31   like, you know, when you and I meet up for lunch on occasion, you will often make reference to like,

00:41:38   "Oh, I was thinking about this thing." Like when we were together as co-founders in Memphis,

00:41:44   like you and Steven were and it's it's it's clearly a

00:41:48   time that is

00:41:51   that has like a

00:41:53   Value that is much greater than just the the raw days that you're together. Yeah, and I think like it is

00:42:00   Working remotely. It is fantastic for the day today

00:42:05   but the impression that I get is is like a lot of the a

00:42:10   Lot of the sort of big-picture vision for what you want for relay and for your company comes out of this time

00:42:16   Oh, yeah. Oh, it really does it really really does

00:42:19   I mean it also we we launched a redesign of our website and that was really

00:42:24   Useful for us to be in the same place when we did that

00:42:26   Yes, the new the new relay website. It looks gorgeous. Yeah, it's really good-looking. It's very good-looking. They had nothing to do with me

00:42:35   Did you not hand draw all of the pages for the website?

00:42:40   No.

00:42:41   Nope.

00:42:42   You didn't do that?

00:42:43   None of it was my idea, but I love it.

00:42:46   It was fantastic.

00:42:48   It was really well done, and I think it represents our company better than the previous website

00:42:54   did.

00:42:55   I think it looks really great, and it was really fun and scary to all be in the same

00:43:00   place whilst that was happening, and then like, putting out all the fires.

00:43:04   It was good.

00:43:05   But that was like doing that in the same place is way better than it happening which would

00:43:09   have happened when I was sleeping in London is what it would have happened.

00:43:13   And then as well as that like I've like doing the show like I'm recording in Steven's studio

00:43:17   for a few days like I'm doing all of my regular work and we're together and it's been very

00:43:21   valuable like we do it every year and we'll continue to like it's a it makes so much sense.

00:43:27   It makes so much sense.

00:43:28   So you're in Steven's studio right now.

00:43:30   Are you surrounded by Max of all kinds decades ago?

00:43:34   shelving full of old computers like just this big shelving unit with lots and

00:43:42   lots of things on it like I can look at old iPod touches and old Macintoshes and

00:43:47   they're everywhere. I can't imagine that any listeners are unaware but in case

00:43:53   they aren't like Stephen Hackett your co-founder must have one of the largest

00:43:56   private collections of Apple equipment in the world like that has to be true. I

00:44:03   I think in the condition that he has them, yes.

00:44:06   I mean, to the point that he has literally donated

00:44:09   large sections of his collections to museums

00:44:13   like the Henry Ford Museum.

00:44:15   - So the Henry Ford Museum has one of those little plaques

00:44:17   that says, "Oh, this historical Mac was donated

00:44:21   by Stephen Hackett."

00:44:23   Like you see those plaques in museums when like--

00:44:25   - I think it will do eventually.

00:44:26   - Yeah.

00:44:27   - I think that they're still preparing them

00:44:28   and it was every color of the iMac G3.

00:44:32   Stephen had an incredible project where he put them all together and then at the end of it donated them to the Henry Ford Museum.

00:44:39   So yeah, he has quite a collection.

00:44:42   It is really crazy. Listeners, if you haven't seen it, we'll put it in the show notes, but Stephen Hackett's YouTube channel

00:44:50   has a bunch of videos where he's showing off various portions of his collection and it is

00:44:56   It is impressive to see and it must have been...

00:44:59   I can't imagine how much effort had to go into getting all of the different pieces that he has.

00:45:05   But because he has so many, he can do very fun videos sometimes.

00:45:09   Like, when Apple released that ridiculous book of all the things they made,

00:45:13   I love that he made a video of the physical objects with the pages in the book.

00:45:18   But it's like, how many people in the world could match them up?

00:45:21   No one can do that, right? Who has the stuff?

00:45:24   what he does, like including a selection of iPod socks. Like he has all of that. Yeah,

00:45:31   this is a very interesting setting to record shows in.

00:45:34   Yeah, so I just wanted to visualize where you are. So you're surrounded by all the Macs.

00:45:40   That's where you are at this moment.

00:45:41   I'm in a room in Memphis, Tennessee surrounded by computers that are mostly older than me.

00:45:49   not mostly. I'm older than I think I am. Some are older than me, not all. But as well as

00:45:56   that, right, so when I was in New York I was really kind of following the graycation model.

00:46:01   Like I was doing all of my regular work just in another location and it was great because

00:46:09   I felt I had this really strange feeling of like I live in New York now. Like a couple

00:46:15   the days in it was just this really weird feeling of I have taken my life and put it here.

00:46:22   Mm-hmm. Plus New York is a great place to do this type of thing.

00:46:27   I know I mentioned it before but I'm gonna mention again that I really do think like

00:46:31   obviously Gray Industries does not have a co-founder right so I don't I don't go someplace

00:46:36   with a non-existent co-founder but I really do I do think that a change of location is an important

00:46:44   part of doing a trip like this, where you feel like you're going to have a dedicated

00:46:49   work time. Like I really think that the location change matters.

00:46:54   And that's why I used to just go to different hotels in the same city.

00:46:58   And now sometimes I go to Amsterdam or I go to other locations if I can, if I can make it happen.

00:47:03   And that thing that you've touched on, that this sort of almost tricking your brain

00:47:09   into creating this illusion like you just exist in this other place. I really think that it is important that that feeling of

00:47:17   existing somewhere else that I think doing your regular work really helps bring about

00:47:22   it kind of opens you up to thinking about

00:47:25   things in a little bit of a in a little bit of a different way. Like it's interesting to hear that you had that

00:47:31   that feeling of like oh I

00:47:33   exist in New York now and that was definitely a thing like over the summer doing a whole bunch of traveling like I had that

00:47:39   a bunch of times, like a very particular, "What I'm doing now, this is just my life."

00:47:45   It feels almost a bit like you're a different person, which lets you look at problems in

00:47:51   different ways or sometimes think of solutions that wouldn't have occurred to you in the

00:47:56   normal day-to-day routine of your life.

00:47:58   Yeah, I mean, I know that you have, I think, mostly established Amsterdam as like your

00:48:04   place where you go for this stuff.

00:48:06   Yeah, Amsterdam is really good.

00:48:09   It's interesting because Amsterdam is really good.

00:48:12   For me it has a bunch of reasons why it works really well, but I am also aware that that

00:48:19   has also become a little bit of a downside, like I almost know it too well at this point,

00:48:25   and so I feel like I have a little bit less of the novelty experience than previously.

00:48:30   But it is the place that I have gone the most to think about stuff long term or try to reboot

00:48:38   my working process. Because I think that New York really works for me as this place because

00:48:45   everything is super accessible on foot a lot of it right like you can just you know I stayed in

00:48:51   Times Square for the week and being there it's like well I can just walk down to the coffee shop

00:48:57   I can go get some lunch I can go get some groceries and also I have a lot of friends that

00:49:03   that live in New York as well. So all of my evenings, I had stuff to do.

00:49:08   Like I wasn't just being like a recluse because that doesn't,

00:49:10   that wouldn't work for me to be on my own for a week.

00:49:12   Of course.

00:49:13   So I had lots of lunches and dinners and I'm going back to New York and I'm going

00:49:16   to be there for like another 10 days before this thing is done.

00:49:20   And I have loads more planned, right?

00:49:22   Loads of people to go and meet, loads of companies to go and visit. Like it's,

00:49:26   it's a good place for me to be because I can take the time that I need to do

00:49:30   what I want to do, but then also still actually interact with other humans on a frequent basis,

00:49:36   which I – if I am away without a dinner, I need – like I need to be able to see people.

00:49:42   Like just being on my own for multiple days at a time, seeing nobody that I know would

00:49:47   have a not so great effect on me. Like I can do a couple of days and it's great and it's

00:49:51   useful, but just having a dinner or a lunch every day or two with somebody is – that's

00:49:56   very useful for me.

00:49:57   I mean, yeah, New York is just, it's an absolutely fantastic place for that.

00:50:01   Like, the convenience of it is just perfect.

00:50:05   And if you know a whole bunch of people in New York, like, that makes it even better.

00:50:10   So I'm glad that you're enjoying your early day.

00:50:14   Oh yeah, you said it.

00:50:15   In New York.

00:50:16   You're finding it productive.

00:50:17   Uh huh.

00:50:18   You're being a very busy boy in New York.

00:50:19   I am.

00:50:20   I am very busy.

00:50:21   Are you having any time for your regular work, or are you just visiting people and taking

00:50:25   meetings?

00:50:26   that

00:50:47   Are you going to write a novel? No. Again, a lot of people have been suggesting and asking

00:50:52   more about this. All I will want to say right now, because it may never happen,

00:50:58   is that it will be an audio-based thing. Because I want to apply my skills in a different area.

00:51:03   I couldn't write a novel. That's not something I could do. That's just nowhere near my skill set,

00:51:11   and it's not a skill set that I am really interested in taking on right now because

00:51:18   I feel like I can apply the skills that I have to something else, right? Like I can go ahead and

00:51:24   make something fictional and I will say a lot of people have guessed exactly what I want to do.

00:51:29   [Music]

00:51:30   B: It's not a novel though, I'm surprised.

00:51:33   S; Not a novel.

00:51:34   B; Such an avid reader as yourself, I would expect that you would want to write a novel.

00:51:37   S; It's strange that I wouldn't do that, yeah, like it's super strange I wouldn't do that.

00:51:40   it. I still have so much travel to do this year as well. Which I'm excited about.

00:51:46   Well you said you still have, you're going to Chicago in October?

00:51:51   I'm going to Chicago in October where I'm doing two live shows. I'm doing a live

00:51:58   Pan-Addict and a live Connected and I'm going to a conference called Release Notes.

00:52:02   And then I'm going to be at PodCon in December. I am a featured guest of PodCon.

00:52:08   Oh, look at you, very fancy.

00:52:10   My face on the page.

00:52:12   There I am, of all these fancy people.

00:52:14   Face on the page.

00:52:16   That makes it official.

00:52:17   And I'm there, I'm going to be there.

00:52:18   I don't know what I'm going to be doing yet, but

00:52:20   that is something that I'm really excited about.

00:52:22   It is the podcast version of VidCon.

00:52:24   I've wanted something like this for a long time and I am excited about it.

00:52:29   So I'm going to be there and I'm going to be doing something.

00:52:31   I'm hoping to do some panels and stuff, but like all of that's

00:52:34   going to be worked out later.

00:52:36   And I'm going to be in Romania for Christmas,

00:52:37   which is the first time that's happening.

00:52:39   It's my first Christmas outside of England,

00:52:41   so that's gonna be interesting.

00:52:42   - You got a lot of travel going on, Myke.

00:52:44   - Yeah, there may also be one more trip in here yet,

00:52:46   but it's not decided yet.

00:52:48   - Man, if you're gonna do all the travel successfully,

00:52:51   you really have to sort out your system.

00:52:53   - I hate you.

00:52:56   - I'm just saying, with a broken ass system like you've got,

00:53:01   you're not, you know, I think you gotta work on that

00:53:03   before you can do this.

00:53:05   - I don't wanna talk to you anymore.

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00:54:42   Are you there, Myke?

00:54:46   No comment.

00:54:47   Oh, yep.

00:54:48   Myke doesn't want to talk to me.

00:54:50   You're having a timeout right now.

00:54:51   This is what's happening.

00:54:52   Oh, okay.

00:54:53   I'm having a timeout.

00:54:54   Mm hmm.

00:54:55   Yeah, because you can't give me the silent treatment to effectively on a podcast.

00:54:59   Exactly. This doesn't really work. I would like to give you the silent treatment right

00:55:02   now but it's a really difficult thing to do. Yeah, and even if you did, people listening

00:55:07   in Overcast, Smart Speed would just make your silent treatment totally ineffective anyway.

00:55:11   Exactly, it would just make it a treatment which is no silence at all.

00:55:14   It would be no silence at all. But I know how to bring you back. I know how to bring

00:55:19   you back, Myke. You do, do you?

00:55:20   Yeah, I know how to get out of the time out. Which is to tell you, a thing happened in

00:55:26   the grey household which I was not expecting to happen yet and for a while.

00:55:33   But there is now in the house a TV.

00:55:38   Wait was there a TV before?

00:55:41   No there was a computer before.

00:55:42   Wow now there's a TV?

00:55:44   Okay.

00:55:45   Yeah there was an iMac that was a TV.

00:55:48   So now there's like a TV like a grown up TV.

00:55:51   Like a real TV.

00:55:53   With one of those stupid grown-up TV remotes that like your parents have with a thousand

00:55:57   buttons on them.

00:55:58   Yeah.

00:55:59   And that I only care about literally one of those buttons, which is the button to switch

00:56:02   the inputs, and to switch the inputs to the Nintendo Switch, which is connected to that

00:56:11   TV.

00:56:12   Your time out is over.

00:56:14   I'm back baby.

00:56:15   You got a Nintendo Switch?

00:56:17   Yeah, I got a Nintendo Switch.

00:56:20   I have so many questions and I don't even know where to begin. Why? I guess to start.

00:56:26   What made you... what happened?

00:56:28   I'd always assumed that I was going to get a TV if and when we move apartments.

00:56:32   Wait, did you move?

00:56:34   No. Well here's the thing. No, we didn't move. We didn't move. But you know how, you know

00:56:41   how like your paranoia and conspiracy is a thing that feeds on itself and it grows in

00:56:47   intensity?

00:56:48   I am very aware of this right now, yep.

00:56:51   I can't point any fingers, but I'll just say that someone in the house got it in her head.

00:56:57   Oh, in her head.

00:56:58   Look, I'm not specifying.

00:56:59   Okay, okay.

00:57:00   Sorry, sorry, sorry.

00:57:01   I shouldn't try and press on this.

00:57:03   Yeah, don't press on it.

00:57:04   But someone got it into her head that the iMac that we watched TV on was too small.

00:57:12   And this is an idea that starts to feed on itself, because then you watch movies and

00:57:16   you think this would be better if it was bigger. Which reinforces the idea that the iMac, our

00:57:24   21-inch iMac is not adequate. You've been watching TV on a 21-inch screen for how long?

00:57:32   It's not, but here's the thing, the apartment is very small, the screen is not that far

00:57:35   away. Great, I live in London, I understand the size of apartments. A 21-inch screen is

00:57:40   comedic. You live on the rim, you have like a manor house compared to what I live in probably.

00:57:46   So yeah, anyway, it was a little small.

00:57:50   A lot small.

00:57:51   Yeah, it had been fine for, I don't know, I think we've been living here two and a half

00:57:55   years now, but I could see that this was an idea that was self-sustaining, self-feeding,

00:58:04   like a nuclear reaction gone out of control.

00:58:08   And so I ended up deciding, "I'm going to roll with this."

00:58:15   And we got a TV screen, and I figured, well, the TV exists so that we could connect an

00:58:24   Apple TV to it.

00:58:26   And I thought, well, as soon as there's a TV in the house, now there's a reason for

00:58:29   a Nintendo Switch to be in the house.

00:58:31   Okay, so I want to-- obviously I'm dying to talk about that, but I need to go back to

00:58:35   the TV thing again because there's a way to prove that the iMac was too small and could

00:58:40   have been bigger by asking you what is the size of the television that you bought.

00:58:44   Uh, I think it's 50 inches? Yeah, so there you go, Gray. Point made. You clearly had

00:58:50   enough space and it was clearly too small if you've been able to fit a 50 inch screen

00:58:54   into the place that was occupied by the iMac and your eyes have not burned out of your

00:58:59   skull, right? You obviously had the space. It does feel very big compared to the distance

00:59:04   You've more than doubled it!

00:59:06   We're sitting away from it.

00:59:08   But yeah, it's a big screen.

00:59:11   It's a big screen.

00:59:12   I mean, I went with a 42.

00:59:14   50, you really pushed it.

00:59:17   Yeah, I had to do some negotiating down from larger sizes.

00:59:21   What?

00:59:22   And I will say that I was victorious in that larger sizes would simply not fit in the space.

00:59:27   Yeah, I mean...

00:59:28   That was required.

00:59:30   This kinda got out of control over here a little bit I think.

00:59:35   Yeah, it was a whole thing.

00:59:37   But yeah, so now it's weird.

00:59:39   It's like, there's something about having a TV that feels weirdly like, oh, very grown

00:59:43   up.

00:59:44   It's just like, it's this big object.

00:59:46   Like I'm not just using discarded old computers to watch stuff on now.

00:59:50   Like now I have like a proper TV with HDMI inputs that you have to flick around on the

00:59:55   little button to switch between.

00:59:57   So yeah, it's in my house.

00:59:59   So you bought a Nintendo Switch. Why did you choose the Switch over any other games console?

01:00:06   This is a thing that... I'm obviously a gamer, like we talk about games on the show a bunch,

01:00:14   like I like video games. You're a hardcore gamer.

01:00:17   Yeah, a very hardcore Mac gamer. Yep.

01:00:20   [laughter]

01:00:29   Are you having a good laugh over there, Myke? Is that very funny?

01:00:31   Mm-hmm.

01:00:33   People can look at my streaming YouTube channel to see my amazing gaming skills.

01:00:39   Other people in my house are not necessarily the same level of gamer that I am.

01:00:44   Like, my wife, for example, just to pick a random person who lives in the house as well,

01:00:49   She's not really a gamer. Like every once in a while she'll get into something for a little bit, but it's always very temporary.

01:00:55   But we've always had this idea that it would be fun to have a gaming system that you can play with somebody else.

01:01:03   And I think on that list, Nintendo has always been the thing that is clearly the best for people.

01:01:09   And the Switch is the ultimate. The Nintendo Switch, it's the ultimate multiplayer machine. It's full from the ground up.

01:01:17   We had it as an idea to get a Wii years and years ago, and then it eventually became the case where it's like,

01:01:22   "Well, we're not gonna get a Wii because it's so old." And then the Wii U seemed like a very unsuccessful platform.

01:01:28   And then it's just like, "Okay, well when the Switch came out, I told you at the time I wasn't gonna get it straightaway,

01:01:33   but I knew like at some point I'm going to have a Switch, and now that point has come."

01:01:39   And it's very fun.

01:01:42   It's interesting to play and the thing that I feel like is a big victory is

01:01:48   I was trying very slowly to introduce my wife to Mario Kart

01:01:54   and you forget how someone who's very used to playing games

01:01:58   like how much has to be learned with handling a controller if this is not a thing that you've ever done.

01:02:03   Like that level of indirection for someone to learn is a real thing.

01:02:08   Like it is a real skill that is very easy to forget.

01:02:13   And it is a skill that gets increasingly difficult the older you get.

01:02:16   Yeah.

01:02:17   Kids pick it up incredibly quickly.

01:02:19   Yeah. I think that there is like an event horizon over which you probably can't really learn that skill in the same way.

01:02:27   So I wasn't 100% sure if this was going to really work with my wife, so I was trying to introduce her very slowly to Mario Kart.

01:02:34   and it's like, "Oh yes, look, let's play on the 50cc speed, like here we go, doop-a-doop," like driving around, driving around the carts.

01:02:42   I wasn't really sure if it was going to stick, but the other night I was doing some work in my office and

01:02:47   when I came out, I saw a very intense wife,

01:02:52   right, with headphones on, like connected to the TV, very intense look on her face,

01:02:59   driving around on Mario Kart and I thought here we go you picked it up without me

01:03:04   Suggesting that this is a thing that we could do together. So I feel like that's a victory. Yeah, you did it

01:03:09   So you did it. Yeah, what other games have you been playing? I just all I have is Zelda and I have

01:03:15   Mario Kart those those are the two that I got with it. Yeah, I played Zelda

01:03:25   I think that I think the same thing that I think of all the Zelda games

01:03:28   Which is I want to like them a lot more than I do

01:03:30   But in Zelda, I have a psychological problem with Zelda. Okay?

01:03:34   My psychological problem with Zelda is hey NPC. I'm not your goddamn errand boy

01:03:40   Yeah, but you don't have to do the errands in this game

01:03:43   But everybody everybody is telling you like oh you gotta go over here and bring me the thing and it's like oh

01:03:48   I'm gonna give you the sword of destiny

01:03:50   But I need you to find me four chickens first and it's like find your own goddamn chickens like okay

01:03:55   Okay, okay, okay. It's okay. I can help you with this.

01:03:58   But you know what I mean? Like these villagers, we're all supposed to be working together.

01:04:02   Ganondorf's gonna destroy all of Hyrule. Just give me the sword.

01:04:06   You are approaching this game with too much Zelda baggage.

01:04:10   You can ignore it. You can do whatever you want. The entire world is open. Just go.

01:04:19   You are, you are like, the issue that you are having is mostly self-imposed. Like, there

01:04:25   are missions for you to go on, but you can effectively just walk into them. Like, just

01:04:30   just go. The game is open for you to explore. If you want to right now run into Hyrule Castle,

01:04:37   you can actually do it. You can run to the final boss if you want to. Like, you can start

01:04:42   the interaction. You will die immediately.

01:04:45   Yeah, but I feel like that's a false choice.

01:04:50   Because I know people that have like, very early in the game, run into the castle and

01:04:54   picked up a sword that they shouldn't have and teleport out again.

01:04:58   Like, you can do that in this game.

01:05:00   It's what makes it probably the best video game that I've ever played.

01:05:04   Like it is completely open for you to play in.

01:05:08   Just stop talking to people and you will enjoy this game more.

01:05:12   you really don't I I know side quests and then just when they completed the

01:05:18   main story yeah maybe I should try that because I do feel it's like oh all these

01:05:22   people to talk to and like words words words like you've all got your little

01:05:27   problems and you all want me to fix them they they split up the quests into like

01:05:31   main quests and stuff just follow the main most line in the in your objectives

01:05:35   and I mean yeah of course you have to talk to people to advance the story but

01:05:40   But it's less of like, "I need this sword, can you find it?" or like, "I've lost my chickens,

01:05:46   can you run?"

01:05:47   It's not really stuff like that.

01:05:48   And the things that you do, they don't feel so errand-y, you actually do feel like you

01:05:53   are completing a big grand story, which includes-

01:05:56   No, it already feels like a lot of errands, like, "Oh, I want to give you the magic thing,

01:06:00   but you need to get the blue flame for me first."

01:06:02   Yeah, the blue flame one is a bit annoying.

01:06:04   But like, just follow those.

01:06:05   But you gotta get me seeds, I need magic seeds first.

01:06:08   Just don't even do it man, just go for the big like elephant like just run for it like you can do it

01:06:14   Just gonna die immediately. Just gonna die immediately if you go for the go for the end

01:06:19   That's the whole that's the whole point again. I mean here's the thing like I know I understand like this is the structure of these games

01:06:23   This is how these things work

01:06:23   but but I know this is this is the kind of thing where it's like I play them for a little while and I find that

01:06:28   my

01:06:29   Half-life half-life of patience runs dry very quickly

01:06:33   Yeah

01:06:33   With these kinds of games.

01:06:35   The thing is, I have been this guy which is why I have never completed a Zelda game before this one.

01:06:39   Hmm.

01:06:40   But I've played less of them so I have less baggage.

01:06:43   I think that you may be approaching this game with a Zelda mindset.

01:06:47   Which I think if you break you will enjoy it more.

01:06:50   Maybe. I think I've only completed one.

01:06:53   Which is the Game Boy one.

01:06:55   It was all a dream. Spoilers for Game Boy Zelda I guess.

01:06:58   Oh no!

01:06:58   I think it was all a dream.

01:07:00   Which made me feel cheated.

01:07:02   It's the worst story ending.

01:07:04   Any story that ends with,

01:07:05   and he woke up and it was all a dream,

01:07:07   but he looked to the side and there's a memento.

01:07:09   Maybe it was real all along like that.

01:07:11   If you end a story that way, you have failed.

01:07:14   You have failed at stuff.

01:07:15   - It's terrible.

01:07:16   I'll give Zelda credit for being beautiful.

01:07:18   - It really is.

01:07:19   - It's very fire-watchy.

01:07:22   - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that.

01:07:24   - The art styles are very similar.

01:07:26   Firewatch, highly recommend for people

01:07:28   if they haven't played it.

01:07:30   I like games that have a little story like that,

01:07:33   like a game that's a little evening adventure

01:07:35   and then it's over.

01:07:36   It's not a thousand years of running people's errands

01:07:39   like Zelda is.

01:07:40   But yeah, I think our style is very similar

01:07:42   when we think of that, it's good.

01:07:43   And it's just interesting to see with the Switch,

01:07:46   I think that Nintendo's signature move is

01:07:49   our equipment is underpowered,

01:07:54   but we're using it very well.

01:07:55   Like, I feel like that's always what Nintendo does.

01:07:58   And so far I've been pretty impressed

01:08:00   with the way things look on, both on Mario Kart and on Zelda, given the actual specifications

01:08:05   of the device that is connected to the TV. Like, it's pretty impressive. So I've been

01:08:10   liking it quite a lot, but it's been 90% Mario Kart, 10% Zelda.

01:08:16   Spend more time with Zelda. I have some other game recommendations for you though, and some

01:08:19   things to be excited about.

01:08:20   Please, please do.

01:08:21   Are you a Sonic person?

01:08:26   I'm happy to try some Sonic.

01:08:27   Have you played any Sonic in your life?

01:08:29   I played, I like vague vaguely when I was a kid I played Sonic.

01:08:32   So there is a game, it's just come out on a bunch of different platforms, but it came out like a couple of days ago called Sonic Mania.

01:08:38   Mhm.

01:08:39   And Sonic Mania was, has been developed, it's a Sega game, it's an official Sonic game.

01:08:44   But the person who made Sonic Mania had been making like Sonic fan games.

01:08:51   Hmm.

01:08:52   And they were so good, Sega hired them, and they were like, "Make the next Sonic."

01:08:56   That's what you want to do when you're hiring a thing.

01:08:59   It's like, find someone who's doing it amazingly for free and hire them.

01:09:02   And the Sonic franchise has struggled really badly over the years

01:09:06   as Sega have attempted and failed to modernize Sonic.

01:09:09   Right, by putting him in like 3D worlds and stuff.

01:09:12   This is a old school, may as well have been on the Mega Drive looking Sonic.

01:09:16   And it is sublime. It is so good.

01:09:21   And it's like £15. It's absolutely fantastic.

01:09:25   I recommend that one. There's a few games coming out some point this year that I think you'll be

01:09:29   excited about. Have you ever heard of Stardew Valley? People have recommended it to me,

01:09:36   but I don't actually have any familiarity with it. It is a farming simulator type game,

01:09:45   close to Animal Crossing in a way. And I think that it is a game that you will probably end up

01:09:54   liking because you know you're just farming right like that's kind of the idea but it's in this like

01:09:59   cool kind of retro art style and there are like little missions and things that you can complete

01:10:05   as well as just tending to your farm and growing the farm and building the relationships with the

01:10:08   people in the town and it's a game that has been incredibly popular on steam and it's coming to the

01:10:14   switch at some point this year that's one that's one i think that you should keep on your radar

01:10:19   because I think that you would like that game knowing the type of work games that you like.

01:10:25   This is like a really popular work game.

01:10:28   So that's one.

01:10:29   Myke Stowe - Farming.

01:10:31   I don't know.

01:10:32   It sounds boring, Myke.

01:10:33   That doesn't sound like it.

01:10:34   Myke Stowe - That doesn't sound as exciting as trucking.

01:10:36   Myke Stowe - No, it doesn't.

01:10:37   Not even close.

01:10:38   Myke Stowe - And there's a Mario game coming out called Mario Odyssey, which looks superb.

01:10:44   Like it just looks so good.

01:10:45   And people that have played it are like, "Mmm, maybe this is the game of the year and not

01:10:49   Zelda."

01:10:50   So that is mind-blowing to me that there could be a game better than Zelda, because I think

01:10:55   it's amazing.

01:10:57   Is it 3D Mario?

01:10:58   It's 3D.

01:10:59   It's 3D Mario.

01:11:00   I know, I know, I prefer 2D Mario, but 3D Mario games can be good, and this one looks

01:11:05   really weird in a great way.

01:11:08   I feel like in my own gaming history, where Nintendo and I parted ways, was with the N64

01:11:12   and with 3D Mario.

01:11:14   Like I just, I never crossed that bridge.

01:11:17   The perspective change.

01:11:19   Yeah, and it is also a thing genuinely in the Zelda game that I just find it,

01:11:25   sort of like we were talking about before, that there's a real skill to learning how to

01:11:30   indirectly control something in a video game using a hand controller as opposed to iPad games

01:11:35   where you're just touching things on the screen.

01:11:36   I think there is something about the like separate camera control versus character movement

01:11:44   that I just never feel perfectly comfortable with it.

01:11:48   And it is a thing that catches me out in Zelda all the time as well is the like,

01:11:52   Oh, I need to turn my guy and turn the camera at the same time.

01:11:56   Like I just, I find it weird and kind of,

01:12:01   I don't want to say clunky, but clunky is kind of what I, what I feel about it.

01:12:05   Yeah.

01:12:06   Whereas like I'm, I much prefer,

01:12:08   like I wish there was a button I could press where it's like,

01:12:10   can I just go into first person mode with Zelda? Like,

01:12:12   Why do I have to look at this guy? I don't want to look at him. Let the screen just be my eyes

01:12:17   Like it's doom or quake like that. That's what I want

01:12:20   But I so that's why I'm not super thrilled to hear about a 3d Mario

01:12:24   It's like I never I never crossed that bridge and the n64 and I we weren't we didn't get along. We weren't really friends

01:12:31   Super Nintendo that was that was the peak for me and that's where I that's where that's where I left Nintendo

01:12:36   hmm, well

01:12:39   I'll let you know what I think of it when it comes out, but that seems like it could be an issue for you.

01:12:44   Hmm. I think it could be. I think it could be Myke. I'm pleased that you have one though.

01:12:49   Yeah, I mean honestly just for Mario Kart, it's worth it because Mario Kart is so fun.

01:12:54   Like it really is.

01:12:57   But I have to say it is interesting because we were talking about pricing models last time about apps going

01:13:04   subscription like or doing pay up front and it is a it is a funny thing to

01:13:09   have a gaming system back in my life, which I haven't had since the Super Nintendo and

01:13:13   to

01:13:16   to see the prices that are required

01:13:19   for like real in-depth video games that are not going to have in-app purchase bullshit inside of them and

01:13:29   It's like I remember as a kid like video games felt really expensive and the Nintendo switch does bring that back to some extent

01:13:35   It's like oh boy these games are expensive. Yeah, but I like I I really feel

01:13:40   happy to

01:13:43   support that kind of stuff like I would much rather pay a bunch for a game and

01:13:47   Not feel like I'm being nickeled and dying and to death in the game

01:13:52   And it's like but if you if you want to make a game company that is sustainable

01:13:57   It's like you're gonna need to pay way more than you're used to on the iPad for these games

01:14:03   So it's like I don't I forget exactly what the price of Mario was but it was like woof

01:14:07   But I'm happy to do it. It would have been in probably around 40 pounds or something like it's a full ticket game

01:14:13   Right, like you're paying a big price, but these are experiences that won't exist otherwise, and I think they're worth it

01:14:19   Right, like I strongly believe in it

01:14:22   Yeah, that's what I mean to emphasize is like if you're if you were used to

01:14:27   two iPhone games like the Nintendo Switch is an expensive proposition, but one of the

01:14:33   reasons I like Nintendo is they feel very worth it as a company, like they make interesting

01:14:38   things, they make really fun things, and I think Mario Kart is just a great example of

01:14:44   that, of like a game that can be fun with a bunch of people, that can be relatively

01:14:49   approachable and fun for total newbies, so I am very happy to give Nintendo my money

01:14:55   when I have the opportunity to. And so now I have. I've done it with the Switch.

01:14:59   talking about things that you pay money for and get really good value out of Gray

01:15:03   oh look at you look at you Myke so we only ever talk about this once a year on

01:15:11   the show but it is possible if you would desire you can contribute your hard

01:15:17   earned money to this show and to other relay FM shows relay FM has a membership

01:15:22   program that has a bunch of benefits. You get a behind the scenes newsletter of everything

01:15:27   that's going on at Relay FM. We give previews of upcoming shows. There is a members only

01:15:31   podcast which we have every month with my co-founder Steven, who we've spoken about

01:15:36   a bit on this show. He brings together a couple of different Relay FM hosts that usually aren't

01:15:41   together and they talk about a big topic every month. And then the big thing that I want

01:15:45   to mention is our bonus episodes. And this is something that goes along with us talking

01:15:50   about the membership every year. A whole host of relay FM shows put together a bonus episode

01:15:55   of a show. We do a bunch of shows that like mashed together and create something cool

01:16:00   and awesome. And they happen throughout August and September. And last year, me and you and

01:16:06   Jason Snow, who is my co host on upgrade, we came together and we did a text adventure

01:16:10   called Six Gun Showdown. And it was fantastic. And we had a really great time where me and

01:16:15   you were traversing through the wild west and Jason was our computer and he was giving

01:16:21   and we had to give him commands to allow us to do things and we met Snakey and we died

01:16:25   a lot. That's what happened.

01:16:27   I gotta say too, just to interject here, I was very dubious about this proposition last

01:16:32   year as, I don't know if you remember all of the poking and prodding that you had to

01:16:37   do to get me to go along with this.

01:16:38   Oh I remember, it was a seven month process it took me to introduce.

01:16:41   I'm sure you've forgotten. I don't think it would have left a big impression on your mind.

01:16:44   I was very resistant and that was...

01:16:50   It ended up being just a really fun experience and a very different kind of thing to do.

01:16:54   And I really loved doing Six Gun Showdown last year.

01:16:58   Like it was super fun and I have to say the feedback that we got from the episode

01:17:02   is that people who were members and who listened to it...

01:17:05   It was as close to universal delight as you can get doing a podcast for people.

01:17:11   Like it was just a fun experience for everyone, so I was resistant, but it worked out really well in the end.

01:17:18   So this year it was way easier to convince Gray, because we did it again.

01:17:22   So that's the run-up too. We have done the same thing again, but with a different adventure.

01:17:28   We did another text adventure. You, me and Snell, we recorded it together a couple weeks ago.

01:17:33   You have been a busy, busy Myke editing it all together. You've sent me a few drafts.

01:17:39   you have, if I can say, gone above and beyond with adding in atmospheric sound effects.

01:17:46   This is a high production value text adventure that we have done in podcast format.

01:17:52   Yeah, I'm very proud of myself. I'm not gonna lie, I'm very proud of myself. I went high concept

01:17:56   with this one and I think I pulled it off. We participate in a text adventure called Spooky

01:18:02   mana. I think that's all you need to know really to assume what the the theme of the episode is,

01:18:10   but we do have a trailer so you can get an idea of the flavor which we're going to play at the end

01:18:14   of the episode. Now if you want to get access to spooky mana which is the the cortex bonus

01:18:21   and you also get six gun showdown along with so much bonus content it's almost overwhelming.

01:18:28   There is so much amazing stuff that happened last year that you can find in the feed that you'll get

01:18:33   sent along with all of the great specials that we've got happening this year. Spooky Manor,

01:18:38   the bonus for this show and for upgrade, will be published on Friday the 25th of August. So if you

01:18:44   become a member before then it will appear then if you become a member after that point you can just

01:18:49   go back and find the date it will be in the feed. You will be sent an email when you sign up which

01:18:53   has all of the information about how you can subscribe and it will take you off to a page

01:18:57   so you can go and do that. You can find out more at relay.fm/membership. But if you just want to

01:19:02   donate to this show, you can do that. You can donate to any show, no matter what show you

01:19:07   donate to, you get all the same perks. We would obviously love it if you chose Cortex, but you

01:19:12   can choose any relay.fm show. You can choose all the relay.fm shows and you can give an amount of

01:19:17   money that you choose either every month or every year. So relay.fm/membership to find out more.

01:19:23   We would really appreciate it. It just helps. It's a great thing and we try to give you some bonuses.

01:19:29   So you can look out for that and I promise you Spooky Manor is worth your money.

01:19:34   I'm very proud of it. I think we're all really proud of it. We worked hard on it

01:19:39   and I think that you're really, really going to enjoy it.

01:19:41   AO There are so many bonuses. You even forgot to mention one, Myke,

01:19:45   which is the 5K desktop wallpapers of Relay FM show artwork from members.

01:19:49   MIKE That's true.

01:19:49   AO So much. You can't even keep track of it.

01:19:52   I can't even. So if you become a Relay FM member, you also get sent a link to download

01:19:57   beautiful desktop wallpapers of every single Relay FM show. So you can put them and also

01:20:03   sometime in the future we're working on mobile versions as well. So the bonuses, they just

01:20:08   keep a coming. So we would really appreciate it if you became a Relay FM member and support

01:20:14   what we're doing here and we try and thank you in return by giving you access to some

01:20:19   cool stuff. So to play out this week's episode, here is a trailer for Spooky Manor. If you

01:20:24   want to become a member, read it as a fm/membership, choose your shows, and you'll be sent all

01:20:28   the information you need. Thanks if you support us, we really really appreciate it.

01:20:32   Thanks for listening everybody.

01:20:33   Beep boop, I will be your parser. We are going to be participating in Parsley, episode number

01:20:40   three.

01:20:41   Spooky Manor!

01:20:47   So my instinct right now is to unlock the padlock and wrap the chain around my fist.

01:20:53   Computer, is this something that you would permit?

01:20:56   There's no way the computer's gonna let you do that.

01:20:58   I don't understand, computer, is there something you would permit?

01:21:02   Okay.

01:21:03   You ride your bike north over the rough cobblestone path.

01:21:07   The bike's tires are horribly damaged as you drive to the north.

01:21:12   Yep.

01:21:13   So, uh...

01:21:14   You look at your tires and think to yourself, "Oh dear, how am I going to get home now?"

01:21:20   Alright, smash the pheasant with a chain.

01:21:24   I'm sorry, you can't do that.

01:21:25   Well, I mean, I can.

01:21:26   You haven't seen me with a chain.

01:21:28   I think you're missing the difference between a fantasy role-playing game and a text adventure.

01:21:32   Text adventures have cruel, unfeeling parsers that just reject you when you try interesting

01:21:36   things like smashing a pheasant on a table with a chain.

01:21:40   Okay, exit crypt?

01:21:43   You go into the crypt.

01:21:44   It smells of mold and decay, but its sole occupant appears perfectly preserved.

01:21:50   Uh, look at occupant?

01:21:52   The body of a pale young woman lies dead on a granite slab.

01:21:57   Around her neck is a front door key.

01:22:00   Oh no, wait, pull on Dante's Inferno.

01:22:03   Enter.

01:22:04   You pull on the copy of Dante's Inferno.

01:22:06   A chute opens beneath you and you fall down, down, down, far, far below.

01:22:14   Why can you not just wait?

01:22:17   I feel like I have achieved exactly what I wanted to do.

01:22:20   There is a monstrous wolf chained to the wall.

01:22:22   Jesus.

01:22:23   Okay, so there's a wolf.

01:22:27   If you would like to listen to your heroes traverse a tricky and terrifying trial, then

01:22:35   sign up today to become a Relay FM member.

01:22:38   Go to relay.fm/membership, select any show you like (but of course, it should be Cortex)

01:22:44   and you'll receive a link to our special bonus content including...


01:22:52   [Music]