Cortex

00:00:00 ◼   ► You're going to be really natural right now, that's what you're going to do?

00:00:03 ◼   ► This is supernatural.

00:00:04 ◼   ► Okay, go for it.

00:00:05 ◼   ► So I guess we should probably tell people who I am.

00:00:10 ◼   ► I think everybody knows who you are.

00:00:12 ◼   ► When they hear this British voice, I should probably explain a little bit about me.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Okay, that sounds good.

00:00:18 ◼   ► I am Myke Hurley and I'm the co-founder of Relay FM.

00:00:21 ◼   ► I am a podcaster full-time.

00:00:23 ◼   ► I've been podcasting for like five years and I've been full-time podcasting for maybe like

00:00:28 ◼   ► six months or something like that.

00:00:29 ◼   ► And we're gonna talk a little bit more about kind of where I came from or where you came from work-wise a little bit later on.

00:00:36 ◼   ► But I just wanted people to know who I am as we start this.

00:00:40 ◼   ► And of course I have the real pleasure of being joined on Cortex every week by Mr. CGP Grey.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Hello.

00:00:47 ◼   ► Hello Grey.

00:00:48 ◼   ► I've only agreed to ten episodes though so far.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Yes.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Let's make that very clear. You have successfully pestered me into doing this.

00:00:56 ◼   ► You have been very convincing, but I have agreed to do ten episodes of this podcast with you.

00:01:01 ◼   ► I basically force-fed Grey Coffee and got him to agree to doing this with me.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Yes, yes. You were very consistent over several lunches together of getting me to do this with you.

00:01:17 ◼   ► So here we are.

00:01:18 ◼   ► Because I mean I am a big fan of your work, especially of Hello Internet.

00:01:23 ◼   ► that is my favorite thing. I love you and Brady every week. But there's

00:01:27 ◼   ► one thing that when I listen to Hello Internet that I would love to hear more

00:01:30 ◼   ► of and that's what Cortex is gonna be.

00:01:34 ◼   ► Where initially I want to talk about with you the way that you work.

00:01:38 ◼   ► Because every now and then you drop a little interesting tidbit of information

00:01:45 ◼   ► about the way that you work and I am kind of fascinated to understand a

00:01:52 ◼   ► little bit more about that and the decisions that you make.

00:01:55 ◼   ► Okay you want to follow that up on on here? Mm-hmm that's what this is gonna be.

00:01:59 ◼   ► Okay. So I have many I've been keeping a big long list of things of peculiar

00:02:05 ◼   ► things like I would like to tease something every every time I tell

00:02:09 ◼   ► somebody about this show I give them one piece of information as to why I think

00:02:12 ◼   ► Cortex is going to be interesting. And it's because a recent lunch that we had

00:02:17 ◼   ► I found out that Grey put sleep on his calendar.

00:02:21 ◼   ► - You seem transfixed by this.

00:02:23 ◼   ► This really struck you.

00:02:25 ◼   ► - Everybody that I tell about this,

00:02:28 ◼   ► when I'm talking to people about why I think

00:02:30 ◼   ► this show is going to be awesome,

00:02:33 ◼   ► is exactly this thing I tell them,

00:02:35 ◼   ► and they all react the way that I reacted.

00:02:38 ◼   ► They're like, "I just can't believe it."

00:02:40 ◼   ► - I don't understand.

00:02:41 ◼   ► It seems very logical to me, but--

00:02:43 ◼   ► - We will save this conversation,

00:02:44 ◼   ► I want to table this conversation,

00:02:45 ◼   ► 'cause we'll lose the entire show to this.

00:02:47 ◼   ► We will put that to the side for now.

00:02:49 ◼   ► That will be on the calendar episode.

00:02:51 ◼   ► But that, this is the type of thing that I want to, that I hope we will come across on Cortex

00:02:56 ◼   ► and as we try and understand a little bit more about the inner workings of your robotic mind

00:03:02 ◼   ► and the way that the gears turn.

00:03:03 ◼   ► We can see how this goes.

00:03:05 ◼   ► Although, I am aware that I seem to have developed a bit of a reputation for being some kind of productive robot

00:03:13 ◼   ► And one of the reasons why I have only agreed to 10 episodes is

00:03:18 ◼   ► I don't really think that there's that much to talk about

00:03:22 ◼   ► because even though I have this reputation, I don't actually really like work very much.

00:03:28 ◼   ► I don't like working, and I am constantly trying to think of ways to minimize work

00:03:34 ◼   ► or to sort of maximize the output that I can get from the minimum amount of input.

00:03:40 ◼   ► input. So I'm not a huge fan of work. So I'm not sure there's going to

00:03:46 ◼   ► actually be a lot to talk about. But you see that's the thing for me. That is

00:03:50 ◼   ► wherein the interesting stuff lies because you are a person who is

00:03:55 ◼   ► successful at what you do and you have a good output of work and the work

00:04:01 ◼   ► that you put out is of high quality and you seem to be quite efficient about the

00:04:05 ◼   ► way that you do it simply because you want to not do too much of it. So I think

00:04:09 ◼   ► that there is something really interesting in there. You're not a workaholic, right?

00:04:14 ◼   ► No.

00:04:14 ◼   ► In that instance. But you have found interesting ways to get maximum output with minimum input.

00:04:22 ◼   ► Perhaps.

00:04:22 ◼   ► We'll find out.

00:04:23 ◼   ► It works for me anyway. Many people wish I made more videos, but this is the way I work.

00:04:30 ◼   ► That's actually a topic I have for later. So like, you know, you have agreed to 10,

00:04:34 ◼   ► But I have like 20 topics, so we'll see. We'll see how we go on that one.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Don't push your luck, Myke.

00:04:40 ◼   ► I'm planning this into 2020, buddy, but you can't get away from me now.

00:04:45 ◼   ► It was a big deal for me to put something weekly on my schedule.

00:04:49 ◼   ► This is a- I carved out a lot of time for this. I don't know about this.

00:04:52 ◼   ► You're already trying to reserve decades ahead.

00:04:55 ◼   ► This is like a podcast Trojan Horse.

00:04:58 ◼   ► Ah, okay.

00:04:59 ◼   ► That's how this works.

00:05:00 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:05:01 ◼   ► So everybody knows that listens to your stuff that you used to be a teacher, right?

00:05:06 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Is that the primary part of your background, your working background?

00:05:11 ◼   ► Yes, before I started making videos on YouTube, being a teacher here in the UK was really my only job as a full-grown adult.

00:05:23 ◼   ► I have no long list of interesting careers.

00:05:26 ◼   ► I basically went to school and then after university I trained to be a teacher and became a teacher for a number of years

00:05:35 ◼   ► and then eventually left that to do YouTube is the short version of that story.

00:05:38 ◼   ► There are other things that happen in between there but that's the gist of it.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Why did you want to be a teacher?

00:05:43 ◼   ► You're gonna start out making me look bad. You know the answer to this.

00:05:46 ◼   ► Okay so I always have a hard time convincing people that this is actually my answer but

00:05:53 ◼   ► But I became a teacher because of the time off.

00:06:00 ◼   ► That was really the main thing that drew me to that career.

00:06:06 ◼   ► And while that can come off as sounding very lazy, the reason that it attracted me is that

00:06:16 ◼   ► I wanted to be able to have big chunks of time to be able to work on my own side projects.

00:06:24 ◼   ► I'm always a person who's had side projects in my life.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Even now that my side projects have become my main living, I still have other side projects.

00:06:33 ◼   ► This is just a fundamental part of my personality.

00:06:35 ◼   ► And really, when you leave university and you are surveying the potential jobs that

00:06:41 ◼   ► are available, time off from those jobs is a very, very rare and very precious resource.

00:06:48 ◼   ► You know, the standard in America for people I know who, friends of mine who are living

00:06:56 ◼   ► there is two weeks off a year, and I know, I know. I don't think this is hyperbole when

00:07:04 ◼   ► I say that that's barbaric for a modern Western society. It's extra barbaric when you consider

00:07:11 ◼   ► that most Americans then have to take their two weeks off and spend most of that time

00:07:18 ◼   ► with their families at Thanksgiving or Christmas, which are usually not times most people think

00:07:25 ◼   ► of as very relaxed, very low-key times. So in America, the standard is two weeks, and

00:07:33 ◼   ► And here in the UK, it's usually about, I think, four weeks is the legally required

00:07:38 ◼   ► minimum.

00:07:39 ◼   ► I don't know, you used to work like an office job.

00:07:41 ◼   ► What would you get?

00:07:42 ◼   ► Four weeks, is that right?

00:07:43 ◼   ► I got, I think I started off with like 23 days and over my eight years got it up to

00:07:49 ◼   ► 28.

00:07:50 ◼   ► Wow!

00:07:51 ◼   ► I know.

00:07:54 ◼   ► That's loyalty.

00:07:56 ◼   ► I was a rewarded employee.

00:07:59 ◼   ► There you go.

00:08:01 ◼   ► they were able to not keep you on with those rewards.

00:08:05 ◼   ► No.

00:08:06 ◼   ► But yeah, so when I was looking at, "Oh, what am I going to do with my adult working life?"

00:08:13 ◼   ► Teaching has this unique aspect that there are very few jobs that can give you big chunks

00:08:20 ◼   ► of time off.

00:08:22 ◼   ► And so that really is one of the main reasons why I went into teaching.

00:08:25 ◼   ► I mean, there are other contributing factors.

00:08:27 ◼   ► There are reasons why that was easier for me than other things.

00:08:30 ◼   ► a degree in physics also meant that I could pretty much guarantee that I could get a job

00:08:35 ◼   ► at a good school instead of having to start my way at the bottom of the chain and like

00:08:40 ◼   ► hopefully work my way into a good school over a number of years. I could just walk into

00:08:44 ◼   ► a very nice private school as a totally brand new teacher.

00:08:49 ◼   ► So those things helped and those things contributed to my decision, but it really was the time

00:08:52 ◼   ► off and I wanted to and did use those big chunks of time on my side projects, one of

00:08:59 ◼   ► which obviously eventually paid off which is the YouTube videos.

00:09:02 ◼   ► I find it interesting that you start off the conversation with it being like a thing that

00:09:09 ◼   ► you're maybe a little bit embarrassed to say because people may judge you because you say

00:09:14 ◼   ► you wanted time off but it's not like you wanted that time off to sit on a beach.

00:09:19 ◼   ► I'm sure there was some of that but you were looking at it primarily as a way to do other

00:09:24 ◼   ► things to be productive in other areas.

00:09:27 ◼   ► I think that that is a very smart decision.

00:09:31 ◼   ► And this is exactly the type of thing, right,

00:09:34 ◼   ► that for why I think it's interesting

00:09:37 ◼   ► to talk to you about these things,

00:09:38 ◼   ► because that was a very calculated decision that you made

00:09:42 ◼   ► in so much that you look, you didn't want to,

00:09:46 ◼   ► I assume you always wanted to work for yourself, right?

00:09:48 ◼   ► I will make that assumption.

00:09:50 ◼   ► - Yes, that's something I have been aware of

00:09:54 ◼   ► ever since I can remember thinking my own thoughts,

00:09:57 ◼   ► is that if I can become self-employed in some manner,

00:10:00 ◼   ► that is something I would like to do. And I grew up seeing my father,

00:10:04 ◼   ► he's self-employed, and seeing how he was in control of his own life in

00:10:11 ◼   ► the way that you can only be if you're self-employed. So that was always

00:10:13 ◼   ► a goal that I had. So because of that, when, you know, it's

00:10:18 ◼   ► difficult to just go from university to self-employment, like that is a hard

00:10:22 ◼   ► thing to do, especially with the course that you took, like the

00:10:25 ◼   ► the route that you took, the degree that you got.

00:10:27 ◼   ► I don't really know if you can just be like,

00:10:29 ◼   ► right, I'm a physicist now.

00:10:31 ◼   ► That doesn't really, that's not a thing.

00:10:33 ◼   ► - I don't think there are very many freelancing physicists.

00:10:35 ◼   ► - No, I don't know what you do.

00:10:37 ◼   ► You just go to, like you put your ad

00:10:39 ◼   ► in the Yellow Pages or something,

00:10:40 ◼   ► like physicists for hire.

00:10:41 ◼   ► I don't know if that happened.

00:10:43 ◼   ► So you made a decision in that you looked for a job

00:10:46 ◼   ► working for the man that gave you the most amount of time

00:10:49 ◼   ► to build your side business to take you to be self-employed.

00:10:53 ◼   ► That decision is the kind of thing that I find to be really interesting about the way that you plot things out.

00:11:00 ◼   ► And don't get me wrong, there were some summers that were spent basically on a beach.

00:11:04 ◼   ► But of course.

00:11:05 ◼   ► And I did take time off on vacations as well.

00:11:07 ◼   ► But yes, I wanted the time off to do things on the side.

00:11:10 ◼   ► For me, I have been podcasting for five years, as I mentioned.

00:11:14 ◼   ► been I started Relay with my co-founder Stephen Hackett in August of 2014 having

00:11:23 ◼   ► done been around I've been like a bunch of different places doing podcasts over

00:11:27 ◼   ► the years but I had been working in finance I was working in retail banking

00:11:33 ◼   ► for like six years and then I moved into the marketing department and I was there

00:11:37 ◼   ► for about two years so I worked the man from the age of 18 I didn't go to

00:11:43 ◼   ► university I took a gap year to get a job which ended up becoming eight years

00:11:48 ◼   ► the gap almost decade yeah so maybe maybe one day I'll go to university you

00:11:53 ◼   ► know I'm still on that gap year so who knows what happened but I'd I over that

00:11:57 ◼   ► time decided that I also hated working for people you didn't enjoy your

00:12:01 ◼   ► marketing position in finance not really hmm I don't like big corporations gray

00:12:09 ◼   ► That is not a thing that I enjoy. I don't like talking about pinging people or circling back to people.

00:12:15 ◼   ► It's just not a thing that I'm too interested in.

00:12:18 ◼   ► So let's start talking about your devices.

00:12:22 ◼   ► So I kind of want to start at the base, right?

00:12:27 ◼   ► So your computer devices, your computing things.

00:12:30 ◼   ► You want to talk hardware.

00:12:31 ◼   ► I want to talk hardware.

00:12:32 ◼   ► This is where we're going to start.

00:12:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:12:34 ◼   ► Oh, but if you want to talk hardware and you want to talk computers,

00:12:37 ◼   ► Because you're going to start a religious war here over particular computers and things.

00:12:42 ◼   ► That's a good way to lose half the listeners straight away.

00:12:45 ◼   ► Mhmm, especially with some of the questions I'm going to ask you in a minute.

00:12:48 ◼   ► Oh great, great.

00:12:49 ◼   ► We're just going to cut out a massive swath of people just straight out the door after

00:12:55 ◼   ► minute twelve.

00:12:57 ◼   ► So what computer do you use?

00:12:59 ◼   ► I am talking to you right now on my computer which is a 27 inch Retina iMac.

00:13:06 ◼   ► I would say is that this is the computer that I have been waiting a very long time for because I bought this

00:13:13 ◼   ► Solely because of the retina screen. I was just waiting for Apple to come out with a large retina screen and

00:13:20 ◼   ► As soon as they did it's like yes

00:13:23 ◼   ► I will take that computer and Apple says you haven't heard how much it is and I said I don't care right I've been waiting

00:13:28 ◼   ► for this just just give it to me and

00:13:30 ◼   ► They're like, oh sign this sign this document in your own blood and I find fine sign whatever

00:13:35 ◼   ► I just I need a big retina screen to work on. It's my main

00:13:40 ◼   ► computer although it may not be my main computing device

00:13:43 ◼   ► But I am I am very happy with it and the retina screen makes a huge difference to me

00:13:48 ◼   ► And that's where I do all my podcasting from and all the animating from.

00:13:52 ◼   ► Do you have any other Macs?

00:13:53 ◼   ► Well see this is what's gonna make people angry. There's a lot of Apple gear in my house. There's a lot of Apple gear

00:14:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean look we just have to accept that

00:14:04 ◼   ► That is where this conversation is going. I apologize to everyone for taking Grey down this path.

00:14:10 ◼   ► In the room behind me I have a little laptop that I sometimes use for doing work around the house

00:14:15 ◼   ► because a 27-inch iMac doesn't translate well to doing stuff on the couch if you need to do computer work.

00:14:21 ◼   ► So I have a little very old MacBook Air from years and years ago.

00:14:26 ◼   ► And then I also have, nearby here, I have a co-working office space that I go to sometimes.

00:14:34 ◼   ► And I have another laptop in there as like redundant gear.

00:14:39 ◼   ► So I have basically an office computer in an actual office that I use as well.

00:14:44 ◼   ► And with your iMac, what keyboard and mouse do you use?

00:14:51 ◼   ► I use the Clicky keyboard.

00:14:53 ◼   ► Now, everyone from Hello Internet will know.

00:14:57 ◼   ► There it goes.

00:14:58 ◼   ► Yeah, that's the sound when Brady's talking,

00:15:00 ◼   ► when my podcasting co-host is talking.

00:15:03 ◼   ► Very often, you can hear me looking up stuff

00:15:06 ◼   ► in the background when he's saying things.

00:15:08 ◼   ► I'm trying to find facts to contradict him, or just

00:15:12 ◼   ► watching YouTube videos or something.

00:15:14 ◼   ► I look forward to hearing that so much.

00:15:18 ◼   ► But yeah, so I bought this keyboard from a company called WASD, which makes old-fashioned mechanical keyboards, which I was very, very excited to find when someone, I think, mentioned it to me on Twitter or something.

00:15:31 ◼   ► But yes, it is very heavy, it is very solid, it is not remotely portable. You could beat a man to death with it.

00:15:39 ◼   ► it and I absolutely love it and it has been customized so that it uses the

00:15:44 ◼   ► Dvorak keyboard layout which is how I actually type all day so that is my

00:15:49 ◼   ► that's my keyboard. Again the Dvorak thing that's a whole I have a whole show

00:15:54 ◼   ► planned around that because that is like something I can't even nearly begin to

00:16:01 ◼   ► understand like using a different keyboard layout but again we will come

00:16:04 ◼   ► to that at a later date. What mouse do you use? Do you use anything specific or do you just

00:16:09 ◼   ► Let's go with an Apple mouse.

00:16:10 ◼   ► - Okay, I have this strange setup.

00:16:12 ◼   ► I don't actually have a mouse on my desk.

00:16:14 ◼   ► What I have in front of me are

00:16:16 ◼   ► two different pointing devices.

00:16:19 ◼   ► The thing that I use mainly is that I have

00:16:22 ◼   ► a Wacom pen tablet that I use 90% of the time

00:16:27 ◼   ► for drawing stuff and even if I'm not animating,

00:16:32 ◼   ► if I'm just using the computer,

00:16:34 ◼   ► just browsing the web or whatever,

00:16:35 ◼   ► I still use the pen tablet almost all the time.

00:16:39 ◼   ► - I had no idea.

00:16:40 ◼   ► - Oh, I thought you used something similar.

00:16:42 ◼   ► I guess not.

00:16:43 ◼   ► - No, I use, when I'm editing,

00:16:46 ◼   ► I use a magic track pad in one hand

00:16:50 ◼   ► and then a mouse in the other.

00:16:53 ◼   ► So I use the track pad for like panning and zooming

00:16:56 ◼   ► and then the mouse for like precision editing of audio.

00:16:59 ◼   ► But I had no idea that you had a pen tablet.

00:17:03 ◼   ► I guess it kind of makes sense because you animate, but that's really interesting to

00:17:08 ◼   ► me and even more interesting that you use it to browse the web.

00:17:11 ◼   ► Yeah I use it for everything. I don't really use mice very much at all. So I do really

00:17:18 ◼   ► like this pen tablet that I have. That is on the right hand side of my keyboard. And

00:17:23 ◼   ► then on the left hand side of my keyboard I have, like you do, I have a magic trackpad.

00:17:28 ◼   ► And I think for the same reason that I find it very helpful when doing animations or doing

00:17:33 ◼   ► podcasts sometimes to have that space to do gestures or secondary tasks, secondary pointing

00:17:40 ◼   ► tasks. It's a little bit hard to explain how I use it, but I find it useful enough that

00:17:45 ◼   ► I'm in the weird situation sometimes of having the pen in one hand and my hand on the magic

00:17:52 ◼   ► trackpad, you know, one on each. And it looks very strange, but I find it can be quite useful

00:17:58 ◼   ► sometimes.

00:18:00 ◼   ► That's kind of my desk setup right here.

00:18:03 ◼   ► That's what I have.

00:18:05 ◼   ► So what phone do you have and what phone do you own and use every day?

00:18:08 ◼   ► Well, Myke, I have an iPhone 6 Plus, which is entirely also because of your badgering.

00:18:19 ◼   ► I originally got an iPhone 6 and on my other podcast I complained quite mightily and for

00:18:24 ◼   ► a very long time about how much I did not like the iPhone 6.

00:18:28 ◼   ► And over our many lunches together, you eventually convinced me to try out the 6 Plus, which

00:18:34 ◼   ► I have done.

00:18:35 ◼   ► And now my main phone is the iPhone 6 Plus.

00:18:38 ◼   ► And I'm a big fan of it.

00:18:39 ◼   ► I am, I like it a lot better than I ever liked the 6.

00:18:45 ◼   ► And this is a strange time to talk about my gear because I'm finding, I'm in a period

00:18:52 ◼   ► of transition now.

00:18:53 ◼   ► Like, I'm aware that I'm using the phone very differently than I used my old phone before,

00:18:58 ◼   ► And then that's affecting how I use... like there are knock-on effects from using the

00:19:02 ◼   ► phone more to other devices and I also have the Apple Watch now which is affecting a little

00:19:07 ◼   ► bit how I work.

00:19:08 ◼   ► So it feels like things are in a period of flux right now.

00:19:11 ◼   ► But yes, the iPhone 6 Plus is my current phone.

00:19:14 ◼   ► And I guess the phone is eating into your iPad usage, right?

00:19:17 ◼   ► You're an iPad user?

00:19:19 ◼   ► Yeah, I am a big iPad user.

00:19:24 ◼   ► And I would go so far as to say that my iPad is my primary computing device.

00:19:31 ◼   ► That most of my work for the videos is actually not animating or doing the audio.

00:19:38 ◼   ► It's mostly script writing.

00:19:40 ◼   ► Just writing what I'm going to say, and then rewriting it and rewriting it and rewriting

00:19:46 ◼   ► it forever and ever.

00:19:48 ◼   ► So it's a lot of typing, and for some reason I find the iPad is the best device for me

00:19:53 ◼   ► to do that on, to do lots and lots of edits on.

00:19:56 ◼   ► It's very comfortable to...

00:19:59 ◼   ► I have like a little external keyboard that I use with it

00:20:02 ◼   ► that I can take around London and work from various cafes and things.

00:20:05 ◼   ► And in addition, if I'm doing research,

00:20:08 ◼   ► I also spend a lot of time reading

00:20:11 ◼   ► and copying and pasting sentences and making notes on stuff

00:20:14 ◼   ► and I really like doing that on the iPad as well.

00:20:17 ◼   ► In terms of hours spent on a device,

00:20:21 ◼   ► The iPad is almost certainly the big leader in that. It's where I have spent most of my time.

00:20:27 ◼   ► But I am really aware that with the iPhone 6 Plus, much to my surprise, the iPhone is

00:20:34 ◼   ► very much eating into my iPad time. Which I would not have guessed,

00:20:39 ◼   ► I would never have thought that would be the case, but it's definitely happening.

00:20:43 ◼   ► So I'm sort of refiguring how I'm using some of my devices.

00:20:46 ◼   ► And do you have a full-sized iPad or a mini?

00:20:49 ◼   ► I have many iPads, Myke.

00:20:51 ◼   ► I have many, many iPads.

00:20:55 ◼   ► I almost don't want to say how many iPads I have.

00:20:58 ◼   ► - What, like in-use iPads?

00:21:00 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, in-use iPads.

00:21:01 ◼   ► - All right, now you gotta tell me how many.

00:21:03 ◼   ► - I don't want to tell you how many I have.

00:21:04 ◼   ► - Come on, tell me how many.

00:21:05 ◼   ► Is it more than five?

00:21:06 ◼   ► - Well, if we're talking about in,

00:21:10 ◼   ► it depends on what you mean by in-use.

00:21:12 ◼   ► Okay, so here's the thing, here's the thing.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Let's back up a minute.

00:21:15 ◼   ► Let's tell my origin story with iPads.

00:21:18 ◼   ► After the iPad came out, I remember being hugely disappointed because, like other people,

00:21:24 ◼   ► I thought, "Oh, I didn't want a giant iPhone. I want OS X or OS X. Sorry. I can never--I

00:21:31 ◼   ► read it in my brain, OS X."

00:21:33 ◼   ► Great. So many people are going to be mad at you.

00:21:35 ◼   ► I know.

00:21:36 ◼   ► You think the people are going to be mad at you for saying you like Apple.

00:21:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:40 ◼   ► The people that like Apple are going to be more mad you said X than Android or Windows

00:21:44 ◼   ► users will be upset at you.

00:21:46 ◼   ► As a slight side note here, I often find myself in situations where I end up with both groups

00:21:52 ◼   ► mad at me on a particular topic.

00:21:55 ◼   ► This is a common phenomenon in my life.

00:21:58 ◼   ► I'm always in the middle of two groups, both of which are angry with me over something.

00:22:04 ◼   ► So that's what I've just done here.

00:22:06 ◼   ► So anyway, I was disappointed with the iPad.

00:22:07 ◼   ► I wanted a desktop computing experience on a tablet and I thought, "Oh, this stupid iPad,

00:22:12 ◼   ► it's totally useless for me.

00:22:13 ◼   ► I'm never going to have any interest in it.

00:22:16 ◼   ► But my wife ended up getting one.

00:22:18 ◼   ► And over time, I thought, ah, that looks useful,

00:22:22 ◼   ► this thing that she's doing over here.

00:22:24 ◼   ► And I started stealing more and more of her iPad time

00:22:28 ◼   ► away from her.

00:22:29 ◼   ► And I eventually started experimenting

00:22:31 ◼   ► with writing on it with an external keyboard, which

00:22:33 ◼   ► I quite liked.

00:22:34 ◼   ► And then my wife was getting annoyed

00:22:36 ◼   ► that her iPad was always missing,

00:22:38 ◼   ► that it was in my control.

00:22:41 ◼   ► But when I eventually saw the iPad 3 with, once again, the retina screen, as soon as I saw it, I thought, "Man, I have to have this. This thing is just great."

00:22:50 ◼   ► That was the first real-sized retina screen I'd ever seen.

00:22:54 ◼   ► And it was a similar thing, like, "How much, Apple? How much? Like, just, I need this right now."

00:22:59 ◼   ► And so since then, because the iPad is my main computing device, it's the thing that I spend most of my time on,

00:23:10 ◼   ► I have gotten each generation of the iPad since the 3.

00:23:14 ◼   ► So it's the 3, the 4, the Air, and the Air 2, if I have that right.

00:23:20 ◼   ► And then I also did get a Mini, so that makes it technically there are 5 iPads in my house that are mine.

00:23:28 ◼   ► But they all do have uses, I swear. They really do.

00:23:31 ◼   ► You use them all?

00:23:32 ◼   ► Okay, so I'm gonna have to really run through this, aren't I?

00:23:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:36 ◼   ► Okay, uh...

00:23:37 ◼   ► Backed yourself into a corner now, great.

00:23:39 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:39 ◼   ► So the iPad 3 is in retirement, is the way I like to think about it.

00:23:45 ◼   ► The iPad 3 sits in my bedroom, and it can only do one thing because it's very old, and it only has limited memory.

00:23:54 ◼   ► Like an old thing?

00:23:55 ◼   ► Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:23:57 ◼   ► My iPad 3's retirement is that it functions as a white noise machine for when I sleep.

00:24:03 ◼   ► Because...

00:24:04 ◼   ► Ah, okay.

00:24:05 ◼   ► I have, I never know how to say it, tinnitus in my ears.

00:24:10 ◼   ► I can't sleep in a silent room, so I need something that makes noise.

00:24:13 ◼   ► So what is it, like a ringing noise you hear?

00:24:15 ◼   ► Yeah, as long as I have been alive I have always had a ringing sound in my ears.

00:24:22 ◼   ► It seems very normal to me, but I kind of forget that other people don't have this as

00:24:25 ◼   ► well.

00:24:26 ◼   ► Sure.

00:24:27 ◼   ► But it means that I can't sleep in a perfectly quiet room, which is one of the few times I really notice it, but it's there.

00:24:34 ◼   ► So I have to have something making noise. So that's what my iPad 3 does.

00:24:37 ◼   ► What type of white noise do you play out of interest?

00:24:40 ◼   ► There is a website that I highly recommend for anybody else who has this called whitenoisemp3s.com

00:24:49 ◼   ► And as far as I can tell, it's run by just one woman who goes around and records various soundscapes.

00:24:58 ◼   ► Now, over my whole life I have listened to a lot of different kinds of white noise,

00:25:03 ◼   ► but she does a very, very good job with the recordings. They're very long.

00:25:08 ◼   ► She picks interesting soundscapes.

00:25:12 ◼   ► So if you have this problem, I highly recommend her website to go buy some of those MP3s.

00:25:18 ◼   ► The one that I sleep with most of the time is actually it's a recording from the interior of a passenger airplane

00:25:25 ◼   ► So it's that jet cabin sound is the one that I play most of the time

00:25:30 ◼   ► But I use a number of her MP3s for various other other things sometimes

00:25:36 ◼   ► So sometimes when I'm just at home if it is bothering me, I have like a thunderscape

00:25:40 ◼   ► I have a thunder sound of a storm that I'll play just like low and in the background just so there's a little bit of noise

00:25:47 ◼   ► But it's not distracting so I use a number of her mp3s

00:25:50 ◼   ► So we've established what the iPad 3 does all right. That's I forgot. That's what we were doing okay

00:25:57 ◼   ► So now I have to explain some other ones okay, so let me let me work backwards then the iPad 4

00:26:03 ◼   ► lives in my office because I like to have redundant equipment in other places so the iPad 4 lives with my

00:26:10 ◼   ► MacBook in the co-working space yes in the co-working space so the iPad air and the iPad air 2

00:26:17 ◼   ► fit into this crazy system that I know you are interested in, which I call my

00:26:22 ◼   ► redundant bag system, where I have two different backpacks that I use based on

00:26:28 ◼   ► what I'm doing on a particular day. And again, I like to have everything just set

00:26:32 ◼   ► and ready to go, so each of those iPads lives in, like, kind of permanently in a

00:26:38 ◼   ► backpack so that in the morning, depending on which day it is, I can grab

00:26:41 ◼   ► one or the other and I'm just all set. Like, they charge up overnight and so

00:26:45 ◼   ► they're just ready. And the iPad mini is probably one of my least favorite but it

00:26:50 ◼   ► has ended up as a dedicated book reader. So I have it set up so that it's very

00:26:56 ◼   ► it's always using like the the low-light setting and it's always set on dark and

00:27:00 ◼   ► it has a very dark background so that I can use that at nighttime for reading

00:27:04 ◼   ► very easily. So those are those are what my iPads are being used for.

00:27:07 ◼   ► This first episode of Cortex is brought to you by Backblaze. I haven't told you

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00:27:23 ◼   ► 2. Do you have anything on that computer that is important to you?

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00:27:46 ◼   ► They back up an enormous number of computer files, over 150 petabytes of data.

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00:28:09 ◼   ► Then, if something bad happens to your computer, which is inevitable given enough time,

00:28:14 ◼   ► it's only a matter of time, every hard drive is basically a ticking time bomb,

00:28:18 ◼   ► waiting to corrupt your files and break and ruin maybe all of the family photos you have,

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00:28:45 ◼   ► But Backblaze is only going to charge you $5 a month per computer

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00:29:08 ◼   ► This is a very handy feature. There have definitely been times when I know there's a file that's sitting, say, on the gigantic external hard drive that I have next to my computer,

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00:29:50 ◼   ► So the question that you dread, why Apple?

00:29:53 ◼   ► Why Apple devices?

00:29:55 ◼   ► or a specific choice that nothing is getting outside of the Apple ecosystem for you.

00:30:02 ◼   ► Why do you personally think that Apple devices are right for you?

00:30:07 ◼   ► Not why they should be right for the rest of the world, right?

00:30:09 ◼   ► I want to make that very clear that I will speak for Gray and that he is purely saying

00:30:14 ◼   ► why he personally, CGP Gray, likes Apple devices.

00:30:17 ◼   ► So implicit in this question is people assume that you are constantly scanning the horizon

00:30:24 ◼   ► and comparing all other options in every possible way, every day, to make sure you're using

00:30:29 ◼   ► the thing that is perfect for you.

00:30:32 ◼   ► And that's not what I do.

00:30:34 ◼   ► So I get into discussions with people sometimes where they say, "Oh, have you tried Windows

00:30:39 ◼   ► lately?"

00:30:40 ◼   ► I haven't used Windows in whatever it is since I quit teaching.

00:30:44 ◼   ► Three years, four years, I don't know exactly.

00:30:45 ◼   ► They go, "Oh, you haven't used Windows today!

00:30:48 ◼   ► It's completely different."

00:30:49 ◼   ► There's always these moving goal posts.

00:30:51 ◼   ► "Oh, I looked at an Android phone a year ago and I didn't like it."

00:30:54 ◼   ► "Oh, but you didn't look at an Android phone today."

00:30:56 ◼   ► "Well, I looked at an Android phone last week."

00:30:58 ◼   ► And they go, "Oh no, it's totally different today. It's much better."

00:31:01 ◼   ► You can never have looked at something recent enough to satisfy the person who you are talking with.

00:31:07 ◼   ► Like, "But you're not looking at the Android phone right now!"

00:31:10 ◼   ► "You just looked at it a minute ago when you handed it back to me, but it's totally better now."

00:31:14 ◼   ► So, I mean, I think what happens is I made a decision back when I was in college to switch

00:31:24 ◼   ► to Macs for a variety of reasons, and I liked Macs, and I have continued using Macs, and

00:31:31 ◼   ► I have found that they have fit me, and I haven't found any wildly compelling reason

00:31:36 ◼   ► to switch, and so I use Apple stuff.

00:31:42 ◼   ► In some ways it's very simple.

00:31:44 ◼   ► I grew up using DOS, like that's where I learned how to use computers, and then I went off to college.

00:31:50 ◼   ► And in college in my wild experimental days, I was building my own computers and using Linux and all the rest of this.

00:31:56 ◼   ► And then when I left college, I switched to Macs and I've stuck with them.

00:32:03 ◼   ► And it was partly because I was tired of messing around with Linux all the time and trying to customize my system and keep up to date on everything.

00:32:09 ◼   ► You know what, I just, I don't have time, and frankly, I don't have the interest in this anymore

00:32:14 ◼   ► of staying on top of all of the packages and compiling from source and all this stuff

00:32:18 ◼   ► So I remember switching to Macs partly because they had Unix underpinnings

00:32:22 ◼   ► So I thought, "Oh, well, the terminal is there if I ever want to use it, I can still do all the Unix stuff

00:32:26 ◼   ► It's not like I'm going to waste that knowledge"

00:32:29 ◼   ► But fast forward 10 years and, you know, it's a rare quarter when I open the terminal to do anything now

00:32:36 ◼   ► I don't know if that's a satisfactory answer, but that is definitely the case.

00:32:40 ◼   ► And then once you've picked a groove, it makes sense to double down on that.

00:32:46 ◼   ► So I tend to use now... like I use Final Cut to animate my videos, which I have to say I really like.

00:32:53 ◼   ► I think that program is very nicely designed, and I like it.

00:32:57 ◼   ► And I use Logic to edit the podcast, which is okay, although it is crash-tacular.

00:33:04 ◼   ► I'm sure there is a better system for...

00:33:06 ◼   ► Would you agree with that? Do you use Logic?

00:33:08 ◼   ► My favorite thing about Logic is if you have a project open, Logic,

00:33:12 ◼   ► and you try to open another project,

00:33:14 ◼   ► Oh yes!

00:33:15 ◼   ► and it's like, and a dialogue pops up, and it basically says to you,

00:33:19 ◼   ► "Are you sure you want to do this? Because if you do this, everything will go wrong."

00:33:23 ◼   ► Right.

00:33:24 ◼   ► "You can choose to do it, but we strongly advise you close one of them."

00:33:27 ◼   ► I'm not making any promises that we're going to keep any of your changes

00:33:30 ◼   ► if you're going to try to have two projects open at once.

00:33:33 ◼   ► It's like sometimes I'm doing that and I'm recording in one and assembling in another

00:33:37 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:33:38 ◼   ► Yes.

00:33:39 ◼   ► And I basically, all I do is press play and the entire thing crashes.

00:33:43 ◼   ► It's like, it's the fundamental thing.

00:33:45 ◼   ► I just press the play button, boom, everything's gone.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Yes, yes.

00:33:50 ◼   ► On the Hello Internet podcast, which again I do with Brady, I probably over edit that

00:33:55 ◼   ► podcast.

00:33:56 ◼   ► I end up with a couple hundred audio cuts every time.

00:33:59 ◼   ► But I'm aware that as that number spikes up, if I want to just nudge a bunch of clips a

00:34:05 ◼   ► little bit left, Logic's like, "Oh, I don't know.

00:34:07 ◼   ► I don't know if we can handle this, man.

00:34:09 ◼   ► You want to move clips together to cut out a bit of white space.

00:34:12 ◼   ► I know this is the primary function of an audio program, but you know, spinning wheel

00:34:16 ◼   ► of death."

00:34:17 ◼   ► Logic is probably not the best example of, "Oh, wow.

00:34:21 ◼   ► Isn't this Apple product just absolutely amazing?"

00:34:24 ◼   ► But when I started doing the podcast, I looked around a little bit in terms of what else

00:34:28 ◼   ► was available and I can't even remember why but at the time I decided I'm just going to

00:34:34 ◼   ► bite the bullet and learn logic and now I have.

00:34:37 ◼   ► For both of us the reason that we use logic is the perfect example of why we use Apple

00:34:42 ◼   ► products like this is why I do and I assume it's probably the same for you it's what I

00:34:46 ◼   ► know now like I use logic because whilst it frustrates me I really know how to use logic

00:34:52 ◼   ► to get what I need done with it and that's like as for as much as I mean I'm pretty much

00:34:57 ◼   ► exactly the same as you. I use all Apple products. I have a Mac Pro instead of an iMac.

00:35:03 ◼   ► I have a MacBook Pro as well that I use. I use two different machines. And Apple

00:35:09 ◼   ► devices quite frequently frustrate the hell out of me for myriads of

00:35:15 ◼   ► reasons. But I know how to use them. They are the things that I chose to use like

00:35:21 ◼   ► ten years ago. So now it's just the stuff that I use and then I use an iPhone as

00:35:26 ◼   ► well because once I think there is a real benefit with Apple devices

00:35:30 ◼   ► especially that if you get one of them it makes your life easier to get others

00:35:34 ◼   ► and that's not so much with Android right because there isn't a Android

00:35:39 ◼   ► desktop as such but you it helps you then to be in Google's complete ecosystem

00:35:45 ◼   ► in general so you use all Google's products because it helps you if you

00:35:48 ◼   ► have your Android device same as if you have a Windows phone it probably really

00:35:51 ◼   ► helps to have a Windows PC so you kind of get stuck in these thetums but once

00:35:55 ◼   ► Once you're there, it's really hard to break out.

00:35:58 ◼   ► No matter how great something might be, if it's not what you know, it can be really hard

00:36:03 ◼   ► to go away from it.

00:36:05 ◼   ► Yeah, and it's not even that it's hard to go away from it.

00:36:08 ◼   ► It's just, what's the point?

00:36:11 ◼   ► You have to spend an enormous amount of time relearning a whole new system for what?

00:36:18 ◼   ► Maybe a 5% or 10% improvement, maybe not even that.

00:36:22 ◼   ► Maybe it's just the same.

00:36:24 ◼   ► you don't know what other problems await for you in a different system, so I'm always of the opinion that if you're going to ask me to change

00:36:31 ◼   ► everything about my computing life, which is now many devices across personal and work,

00:36:38 ◼   ► you need a hell of a good reason to switch.

00:36:41 ◼   ► This can't be like, "Oh, it's 10% better."

00:36:43 ◼   ► This has to be 10 times better.

00:36:46 ◼   ► Because I've also issued my family an ultimatum when I made the switch to Mac, which was

00:36:53 ◼   ► "You guys can keep using Windows, but I can no longer support you on your Windows systems.

00:37:01 ◼   ► I will drift away in knowledge of how to fix your Windows problems.

00:37:06 ◼   ► And if you want continued free technical support from your son, you are going to need to switch over."

00:37:13 ◼   ► And they were no fools. They switched over.

00:37:16 ◼   ► So it's not even like, "Oh, convincing me to change to a different thing is just me making a personal decision."

00:37:22 ◼   ► It's then the whole network of people in my life whose devices I also support.

00:37:29 ◼   ► In my immediate family and friends and all.

00:37:32 ◼   ► It has big, big knock-on effects.

00:37:34 ◼   ► There are network effects to this as well.

00:37:37 ◼   ► But I developed a lot of weird habits when I was working at school because the school

00:37:46 ◼   ► used Windows for everything.

00:37:48 ◼   ► And I was still using a Mac, so I brought my personal laptop into work every day and

00:37:54 ◼   ► then kind of was always juggling back and forth between the two systems.

00:37:58 ◼   ► And I was very aware of keeping documents platform agnostic.

00:38:03 ◼   ► So I still have to this day remnants of the system which is entirely based on storing

00:38:08 ◼   ► information in text files or other ways that are portable back and forth between the two

00:38:12 ◼   ► systems.

00:38:13 ◼   ► But when I got my first iPhone, which was the iPhone 4, that was really--I didn't know

00:38:21 ◼   ► it then, but that was really the moment when I started to get locked in big time, where

00:38:28 ◼   ► it started to no longer matter to me about trying to keep all of my document formats

00:38:34 ◼   ► transferable in the future.

00:38:35 ◼   ► I started to make more decisions about, "I'm really all in on this."

00:38:41 ◼   ► And I am very glad that I made that decision because it has made lots of things much easier

00:38:45 ◼   ► for me and just the systems working together.

00:38:49 ◼   ► So we've spoken about hardware, right?

00:38:52 ◼   ► And we have established that you have a Mac and an iPhone and 20 iPads.

00:38:58 ◼   ► That's about right.

00:39:00 ◼   ► I think I got that right.

00:39:01 ◼   ► I think I was following correctly.

00:39:03 ◼   ► Close enough.

00:39:04 ◼   ► Okay, good.

00:39:05 ◼   ► So I want to see what's on them, right?

00:39:07 ◼   ► I want to understand a little bit about how you set them up

00:39:09 ◼   ► because again, listening to Hello Internet,

00:39:12 ◼   ► I know that you're very particular about the way

00:39:13 ◼   ► that you organize things in your house

00:39:15 ◼   ► and I wonder if that comes to your devices as well, right?

00:39:19 ◼   ► So I want to look at your iPhone first,

00:39:21 ◼   ► maybe your iPad as well, but I think, you know,

00:39:24 ◼   ► is it fair to say maybe your iPhone

00:39:26 ◼   ► is the most important of the two?

00:39:28 ◼   ► - Ooh, that's a hard, if I had to pick between the two,

00:39:30 ◼   ► if I could only have one, that's a difficult question.

00:39:33 ◼   ► I'd have to sit down and think about that for a while.

00:39:36 ◼   ► That's not immediately answerable.

00:39:38 ◼   ► - Wow, that's surprising to me.

00:39:39 ◼   ► I guess that shows a difference in the way

00:39:40 ◼   ► that me and you work.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Like I don't even use an iPad.

00:39:43 ◼   ► I have one, I just don't use it ever.

00:39:45 ◼   ► - Right.

00:39:46 ◼   ► - Because my iPhone is like,

00:39:48 ◼   ► that's like the most important device that I own, I think.

00:39:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's closer for me.

00:39:55 ◼   ► My iPads do not live unloved on the floor

00:39:58 ◼   ► somewhere in my house, as presumably yours does.

00:40:01 ◼   ► - It's like somewhere.

00:40:02 ◼   ► If I ever need it, I always have to search for it.

00:40:05 ◼   ► It's never in a place that's immediately obvious.

00:40:08 ◼   ► Like the only thing I ever, ever use it for

00:40:10 ◼   ► is to watch video on.

00:40:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're very good for browsing stuff.

00:40:14 ◼   ► But what do you want?

00:40:15 ◼   ► You want like a screenshot of my iPhone?

00:40:16 ◼   ► Is that what you want?

00:40:17 ◼   ► - You can give me one if you'd like one.

00:40:18 ◼   ► That would be really lovely for the show notes.

00:40:21 ◼   ► - You sound way too excited about that.

00:40:23 ◼   ► - I really hope that people find this as interesting as I do

00:40:25 ◼   ► 'cause I just am fascinated by it.

00:40:27 ◼   ► And I think that, I mean,

00:40:30 ◼   ► whenever I talk about these sorts of things with people,

00:40:32 ◼   ► seems to get, you know, people seem to be excited about it. I am very excited about

00:40:37 ◼   ► the way that people arrange their devices and like the decisions that they make. It's

00:40:42 ◼   ► just fascinating to me to see like the icons that people pick. Because I think I remember

00:40:47 ◼   ► seeing a screenshot of your iPhone previously and I was kind of a little bit fascinated

00:40:53 ◼   ► by it. There were like, there were things on there that I just couldn't understand.

00:40:56 ◼   ► Okay, well, I will send you an unmodified "Here's how it looked right now" as we were

00:41:02 ◼   ► talking.

00:41:03 ◼   ► I didn't know you were going to do this screenshot.

00:41:04 ◼   ► I'll send it to you on iMessage.

00:41:07 ◼   ► But yes, as you might imagine, I'm a very fussy person in some ways, and I have spent

00:41:16 ◼   ► far, far more man-hours than I care to admit trying to select a wallpaper that is acceptable,

00:41:23 ◼   ► and the way that I arrange the icons on my phone and on my iPad, I really don't want

00:41:30 ◼   ► to know how much time has been spent on it. But it has been a lot, and I'm in an acceptable

00:41:35 ◼   ► place now with the way all the icons are. But you know, it can always be improved.

00:41:40 ◼   ► Okay, so I'm looking at this, right? I'm looking at this image here, and people can find this

00:41:44 ◼   ► image if they want to in a couple of different ways. So, as I mentioned, we've mentioned

00:41:48 ◼   ► show notes, right? The place that you can go for the show notes. They're on the web,

00:41:52 ◼   ► relay.fm/cortex/1 and they're also in, if you use like a modern app, a modern podcast

00:42:02 ◼   ► app, you will tend to find the show notes in there and some will even show this image

00:42:07 ◼   ► like embedded because I'm fully embedded because I think that's interesting to see that right

00:42:11 ◼   ► there so you don't even have to click the link, it'll be right there for you to see.

00:42:14 ◼   ► So I have, I think we may spend the next four hours just talking about what I can see here.

00:42:20 ◼   ► Wow, this podcast is going to be so exciting!

00:42:23 ◼   ► I think it is. I really hope people enjoy it, Gray, because, I mean, this might just be for me now, but...

00:42:30 ◼   ► I think you're slightly crazy, Myke, but you know...

00:42:34 ◼   ► Well, see, for, you know, I think it's a nice balance. I'm crazy about the things you're crazy about.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Uh-huh. I guess that works for me.

00:42:43 ◼   ► Everything is on one screen.

00:42:45 ◼   ► This took a little while to set up, but I do not like multiple screens.

00:42:50 ◼   ► For various reasons, I have to accept multiple screens on my iPad.

00:42:53 ◼   ► But on my iPhone, especially with the six plus, I was absolutely determined

00:42:58 ◼   ► to fit everything onto a single screen.

00:43:01 ◼   ► I don't want to have to swipe left or right for anything.

00:43:04 ◼   ► I just want to open up the phone and it's all right there.

00:43:07 ◼   ► OK, so the way I arrange that is I have four folders across the top.

00:43:16 ◼   ► And then there are three rows of four icons each.

00:43:20 ◼   ► So that's a four by four grid in total.

00:43:24 ◼   ► And everything that I use on my phone is there.

00:43:26 ◼   ► There is no secondary page to go to.

00:43:28 ◼   ► So one of the things that interests me the most

00:43:31 ◼   ► is the fact that you have three items in the dock of your iPhone.

00:43:35 ◼   ► Okay, I have discussed this with people.

00:43:37 ◼   ► This seems so obvious to me.

00:43:40 ◼   ► It looks visually so much more pleasing

00:43:43 ◼   ► if you have three icons in your dock

00:43:45 ◼   ► than if you have four icons in your dock.

00:43:47 ◼   ► Look, I mean, look at that screenshot, Myke.

00:43:50 ◼   ► You have to agree, right?

00:43:53 ◼   ► Doesn't it look nicer?

00:43:54 ◼   ► Except for the folders.

00:43:55 ◼   ► There's nothing I can do about the folders,

00:43:56 ◼   ► but I mean the three icons in the dock.

00:43:58 ◼   ► Doesn't that look nicer?

00:43:59 ◼   ► I don't know if it looks nicer.

00:44:03 ◼   ► You're wrong.

00:44:03 ◼   ► It does look nicer.

00:44:04 ◼   ► OK, silly me.

00:44:06 ◼   ► The thing is, you're like you're wasting a space.

00:44:09 ◼   ► You have like that's prime real estate down there.

00:44:12 ◼   ► There must be one of the apps in that grid.

00:44:15 ◼   ► of 12 that is good enough or used enough that it could take that fourth place.

00:44:23 ◼   ► Okay but here's the thing, here's the thing Myke. Since I only have one page

00:44:27 ◼   ► the dock is less important than it might be on other people's phones. So while I

00:44:34 ◼   ► agree that it is still prime real estate it is very thumb reachable, for me the

00:44:38 ◼   ► importance is demoted. But those are definitely my three most important apps

00:44:44 ◼   ► that I use most of the time that I have in my dock.

00:44:47 ◼   ► So it's the Notes app, Launch Center Pro, and OmniFocus.

00:44:50 ◼   ► Yes, those are the three that are in my dock.

00:44:52 ◼   ► And having them visually offset from the grid above,

00:44:56 ◼   ► I find makes them easier to kind of see and to go to.

00:45:01 ◼   ► It highlights their importance, having only three,

00:45:04 ◼   ► and then having them centered like that.

00:45:07 ◼   ► It's much, much better.

00:45:09 ◼   ► But the other problem that I have, and this took a while to settle,

00:45:12 ◼   ► is that because I have a very large number of iOS devices,

00:45:16 ◼   ► I wanted to make sure that the dock would always be the same

00:45:19 ◼   ► on all of those devices,

00:45:22 ◼   ► because I set up my iPad slightly differently

00:45:24 ◼   ► depending on the context of what they're being used for.

00:45:26 ◼   ► But on every dock on every device,

00:45:28 ◼   ► it's those three icons in the same order,

00:45:31 ◼   ► Notes, Launch Center Pro, and OmniFocus.

00:45:34 ◼   ► So I always want that to be the same.

00:45:37 ◼   ► -Something else that I find interesting, right,

00:45:39 ◼   ► is the apps that you use, the apps that are out --

00:45:42 ◼   ► on that grid of 12, right, that they are the prime apps that sit in in this group.

00:45:47 ◼   ► They are outside of the folders, you have elevated these apps to the status

00:45:53 ◼   ► of "must be always available". So I want to look at this and I want to ask

00:46:00 ◼   ► you a few quick questions about some of the choices that you've made. So one of

00:46:05 ◼   ► the things that I find really interesting is you have pages, byword,

00:46:08 ◼   ► editorial, and notes. They are all text entry apps. I assume then that you have

00:46:15 ◼   ► different uses for each of these applications. Okay, yeah. So on my

00:46:21 ◼   ► phone screen here, the rows aren't arbitrarily chosen. They are

00:46:25 ◼   ► arranged in a particular way. And the bottom row, within the

00:46:32 ◼   ► closest reach of the thumb on the iPhone 6 Plus, is basically my writing stuff row.

00:46:38 ◼   ► So the four icons on the bottom are, in order, messages, pages, byword, and editorial.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Messages has to be in that spot because that's the easiest spot to hit with the thumb, and it's a very frequently used app.

00:46:51 ◼   ► But then I have those three slots, and conveniently I basically use three writing apps.

00:46:56 ◼   ► And yes, you are right, they serve different purposes, from least important to most important.

00:47:01 ◼   ► Pages is the least important of the three.

00:47:04 ◼   ► I use that for shared documents with some people, primarily Brady.

00:47:11 ◼   ► So we do our show notes actually using pages, which is something you and I have talked in private about,

00:47:18 ◼   ► but that you would not abide for this show. You were very insistent on using Google Docs.

00:47:23 ◼   ► Unacceptable. Unacceptable.

00:47:25 ◼   ► Even though I hate Google Docs for a variety of reasons, but I relented.

00:47:30 ◼   ► I appreciated that. You cannot even begin to understand how much I appreciate that.

00:47:34 ◼   ► But pages works for Brady and I for doing the show notes, because if you are a professional

00:47:42 ◼   ► YouTuber you end up with a million Google accounts and it can be very frustrating to

00:47:47 ◼   ► try and find the correct one for the show notes. So that's why pages works for us.

00:47:52 ◼   ► So we have some shared documents in there.

00:47:55 ◼   ► And I also have a series of shared documents/instructions

00:48:02 ◼   ► for my personal assistant, which are in pages.

00:48:05 ◼   ► So I can make changes in pages, and then she

00:48:08 ◼   ► can see it on her end about how things need

00:48:11 ◼   ► to be done in a particular order.

00:48:13 ◼   ► So pages is largely for sharing documents

00:48:17 ◼   ► with those two people.

00:48:17 ◼   ► And there's a few other things, but that's

00:48:19 ◼   ► like 95% of the use case.

00:48:21 ◼   ► Next over then is Byword, and Byword is where I contain an enormous number of lists and documents

00:48:34 ◼   ► in text format. This can be anything from I keep a list of movies to watch and books to read,

00:48:42 ◼   ► or I'll have a document just on a whole bunch of notes for a potential project in the future, or

00:48:49 ◼   ► half-finished scripts that I'm not working on at the moment. Almost anything that doesn't have a

00:48:56 ◼   ► dedicated place kind of lives in Byword. So there's just a ton of lists in there, and I like to have

00:49:03 ◼   ► that immediately accessible because I can think of, "Oh, I just thought of a place that I would

00:49:09 ◼   ► like to go on holiday at some point." So I have a list of places to visit at some point, so I can

00:49:13 ◼   ► just quickly open up Byword and add that onto the list. And then the one that is the furthest

00:49:19 ◼   ► over is the most important to me, which is editorial. And that is the app that I

00:49:26 ◼   ► actually use to write the scripts for my videos. And I keep a very, very limited

00:49:34 ◼   ► number of documents in there. I try very hard to keep it at five or under of

00:49:41 ◼   ► videos that I can say in some sense are active, that I am currently working on

00:49:46 ◼   ► and currently writing. So that is what editorial is for.

00:49:50 ◼   ► The notes app, right? You keep it in the doc.

00:49:54 ◼   ► Yes. The notes is basically just like a pile of crap

00:49:58 ◼   ► is kind of the way I think of notes. Notes is, "Oh, some thought popped into

00:50:02 ◼   ► my head and I just want to write it down.

00:50:06 ◼   ► I don't even necessarily know what it is or where it's going to go. I just

00:50:10 ◼   ► put it in notes if something comes into my mind.

00:50:14 ◼   ► And I have a regular review session that I do with myself

00:50:19 ◼   ► where I will go through just everything that got

00:50:22 ◼   ► dumped into Notes.

00:50:23 ◼   ► And I'll sort it out later.

00:50:25 ◼   ► But I very often find myself in situations where there's just

00:50:28 ◼   ► something that I want to write down quickly.

00:50:30 ◼   ► And I'm not even sure exactly what it is or where it's

00:50:33 ◼   ► going to go.

00:50:33 ◼   ► And I just throw it in Notes.

00:50:35 ◼   ► And the reason I use Notes is because I want that to be

00:50:39 ◼   ► available everywhere.

00:50:41 ◼   ► And I often go through that stuff on my computer.

00:50:44 ◼   ► So I want an application where I can have all of these little like scraps of paper, almost these virtual scraps of paper.

00:50:51 ◼   ► But I can then turn through them on my computer one at a time and then very quickly.

00:50:56 ◼   ► Oh, yes, this goes on this list.

00:50:57 ◼   ► This goes over here. This I can just delete.

00:50:59 ◼   ► So it's this kind of scratch pad sort of application.

00:51:03 ◼   ► But it's on the dock because it is very, very frequently used of just I want to write this thing down really quick.

00:51:09 ◼   ► OK. The next row up is the audio row.

00:51:12 ◼   ► The audio row, yes. Music, Audible, Overcast, Spotify.

00:51:15 ◼   ► Right.

00:51:16 ◼   ► Audible and Overcast, I can see those uses, right?

00:51:18 ◼   ► Audio books, podcasts.

00:51:20 ◼   ► Right.

00:51:20 ◼   ► Music and Spotify. So I assume you have some stuff that you want on your device that's not on Spotify?

00:51:27 ◼   ► Yeah, my music system is kind of a mess, because I have a bunch of music that I bought through iTunes a while back.

00:51:35 ◼   ► And I don't know, a few months ago I thought, "Oh, all these kids these days, they're talking about this streaming music.

00:51:39 ◼   ► Let me try that. So I signed up for Spotify and I'm kind of waiting to see what Apple does with beats.

00:51:47 ◼   ► Like, can you just solve something for me here, Apple? I feel like I'm halfway between two music systems

00:51:53 ◼   ► and everything is just a mess everywhere. So I have some stuff that's in music where I've made particular playlists.

00:51:59 ◼   ► Like I have playlists for when I'm writing or for exercise or other stuff.

00:52:04 ◼   ► But then Spotify is a source where I can get new music or it has this little radio feature.

00:52:08 ◼   ► each does things that I like, but my music system is just a total mess, which is why

00:52:12 ◼   ► I have the two of them there. But I'm unhappy with the current state of music, and ideally

00:52:17 ◼   ► I would like to compress those two icons down to one icon in the future. But, you know,

00:52:22 ◼   ► this is where we are at the moment.

00:52:24 ◼   ► So then I'm gonna guess like Clear is for lists, right?

00:52:29 ◼   ► So Clear is a very recent newcomer on this front page here.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Ooh, a promotion.

00:52:37 ◼   ► It's a big deal when you decide, ooh, you know, I'm going to have a new one that's on

00:52:41 ◼   ► the homepage.

00:52:42 ◼   ► I can't remember, someone got demoted, I don't remember who it was.

00:52:47 ◼   ► They're so unimportant, they've slipped out of my mind.

00:52:50 ◼   ► But yeah, clear is a new one and I'm experimenting with what I'm calling the top two, where I'm

00:52:59 ◼   ► trying to figure out what are the two most important things that I do on a particular

00:53:04 ◼   ► day.

00:53:05 ◼   ► two best things that I can accomplish today.

00:53:08 ◼   ► And I'm keeping them in Clear.

00:53:11 ◼   ► That's all Clear is, is a list of two items.

00:53:14 ◼   ► And the reason it's there on my phone is mainly because of actually on my computer setup.

00:53:19 ◼   ► Since I use OmniFocus to run all of my life, like everything is in OmniFocus,

00:53:25 ◼   ► on my actual desktop computer I also always have now Clear open on the side,

00:53:31 ◼   ► showing me the two things that I think are really what needs to be accomplished.

00:53:36 ◼   ► And I'm finding that it helpful to have that visually present all the time and separate

00:53:42 ◼   ► from the "Oh, I'm running through this enormous checklist of stuff I need to do when I'm uploading

00:53:47 ◼   ► a new video" or, you know, "Here are the bunch of minor errands that I need to run today"

00:53:52 ◼   ► kind of stuff.

00:53:53 ◼   ► Or like, OmniFocus is on top of all of that, but I like having it visually separate and

00:53:57 ◼   ► omnipresent these two items that I'm selecting as particularly important items for the day.

00:54:02 ◼   ► So that's why clear is there. I don't use it a lot on the phone, but I like to be able

00:54:06 ◼   ► to change or tick off those items immediately.

00:54:09 ◼   ► Are these two items things that you would like to do or things that you have to do?

00:54:16 ◼   ► This can be a whole other conversation. I would say that they are important items, but

00:54:23 ◼   ► they are very rarely things that have to happen.

00:54:27 ◼   ► But this can be another conversation.

00:54:29 ◼   ► So I mean,

00:54:31 ◼   ► "Doo, doo, doo."

00:54:33 ◼   ► I always struggle to say it.

00:54:35 ◼   ► "Doo."

00:54:37 ◼   ► "D-U-E, doo."

00:54:39 ◼   ► Every time I talk about this app

00:54:41 ◼   ► I have to spell it.

00:54:43 ◼   ► Because I just know that I say it ridiculously.

00:54:45 ◼   ► It's like it's just a totally different word.

00:54:47 ◼   ► I

00:54:49 ◼   ► use this for like reminders

00:54:51 ◼   ► and alarms and things.

00:54:53 ◼   ► The crazy thing when you look at this screenshot

00:54:55 ◼   ► is, "Wait a minute, this guy has three icons on his home screen that have checkboxes on

00:54:59 ◼   ► them."

00:55:00 ◼   ► Alright, clear, omni-focus, and do.

00:55:02 ◼   ► And it seems like it's a lot of items.

00:55:05 ◼   ► But I don't actually use do for their reminders at all.

00:55:08 ◼   ► I use do solely because they have the best timer feature of any app I have tried.

00:55:15 ◼   ► Yeah, 100%.

00:55:16 ◼   ► It's amazing.

00:55:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:18 ◼   ► When I'm trying to find a new app, you can look through my purchase history and it's

00:55:21 ◼   ► like, oh, this guy bought 20 timer apps on the iTunes store, and he tried every single

00:55:27 ◼   ► one of them.

00:55:29 ◼   ► But Doo is the only one that does this thing, which now, especially with the Apple Watch,

00:55:34 ◼   ► is just amazing because I use timers constantly for when I work.

00:55:41 ◼   ► And the thing that I really like about Doo is when the timer goes off, you can have it

00:55:47 ◼   ► automatically re-notify you in a minute and keep re-notifying you every minute until you

00:55:54 ◼   ► tell it to stop.

00:55:55 ◼   ► I love that feature so much.

00:55:58 ◼   ► It's almost hard to explain why that's useful, but there are many, there are very many occasions

00:56:02 ◼   ► where I don't want a timer to constantly ring until I tell it to stop.

00:56:08 ◼   ► I want it to poke me every minute, meaning that you need to wrap it up, buddy, but keep

00:56:13 ◼   ► reminding me until I tell it, "Yes, I have finished this thing that I'm doing."

00:56:19 ◼   ► It is life-changing, this timer. And the way it works with the Apple Watch, with sort of

00:56:25 ◼   ► tapping you on the wrist, is absolutely phenomenal. I have to say, I use, at least right now,

00:56:31 ◼   ► I use basically no third-party apps on my watch except Do, and I use Do all day long.

00:56:37 ◼   ► actual Apple Watch app is brilliant because you can you can enter things

00:56:42 ◼   ► there you can reschedule things as well I actually do is probably my favorite

00:56:47 ◼   ► Apple Watch app mm-hmm yeah it's absolutely great it's absolutely great

00:56:51 ◼   ► so unexpectedly I have now kind of just like took you pushed you through this

00:56:58 ◼   ► tour of your iOS device right and pointed out things that I find

00:57:02 ◼   ► interesting and and somewhat weird would you like the opportunity to do the same

00:57:06 ◼   ► to mine. Well are you gonna give me an honest screenshot? Yeah I'll go get my

00:57:12 ◼   ► phone right now and I will send an iMessage you a screenshot. Yeah let's see

00:57:16 ◼   ► for comparison what have you got there? Give me one second. Myke this iPhone is

00:57:20 ◼   ► hideous. Okay awesome right let's do this what's the problem? This screenshot is horrifying.

00:57:29 ◼   ► Why what's wrong with this? Okay I almost I almost said this when I was talking

00:57:35 ◼   ► about my iPhone but now I have to say it to you I don't understand people who

00:57:40 ◼   ► fill up every slot with icons and you're one of those people yeah you have an

00:57:46 ◼   ► iPhone iPhone 6 plus so it's one two three four five six seven rows including

00:57:52 ◼   ► the dock seven rows completely full with four icons on each row my problem is

00:57:57 ◼   ► there's like maybe three apps that I don't want to be there but I can't make

00:58:03 ◼   ► get uneven and plus I just like to fill the screen you got the screen fill the

00:58:06 ◼   ► screen oh my god that's how I feel okay look if there's three that you don't

00:58:11 ◼   ► want to be here at least at least demote one app and leave that that row on the

00:58:19 ◼   ► bottom clear having having at least one row clear is very nice it's very

00:58:24 ◼   ► pleasing I used to do that I don't know maybe maybe this this this will force me

00:58:29 ◼   ► to do it. I need to think more carefully. I mean the phone. Why the heck is the phone

00:58:34 ◼   ► icon on your home screen? I actually don't know why it's there. Okay, there we go. I've

00:58:39 ◼   ► solved your problem for you. Get rid of the phone icon. Get rid of whatever those other

00:58:43 ◼   ► three are. And I mean, when I look at this, this to me is just... I can't believe I've

00:58:50 ◼   ► never seen this in person. I feel... I think you must have been hiding this from me in

00:58:54 ◼   ► person when you've like grabbed it and thrown it at the wall or something.

00:58:59 ◼   ► You need to fix this right now buddy. This is just, this is horrifying visual noise and

00:59:05 ◼   ► I have to say your wallpaper, your wallpaper isn't helping. Are you going to put this in

00:59:09 ◼   ► the show notes for people?

00:59:10 ◼   ► Yeah, that's one of the built-in ones. Apple give you that.

00:59:14 ◼   ► Is that one built in?

00:59:15 ◼   ► Uh huh.

00:59:16 ◼   ► No, that's not built in.

00:59:17 ◼   ► I promise you it is. That is an Apple designed wallpaper. I'm telling you.

00:59:21 ◼   ► I mean they do occasionally they make horrifying decisions.

00:59:24 ◼   ► That is no, there's no way.

00:59:26 ◼   ► I mean, it is just, it is just triangles of color.

00:59:30 ◼   ► Uh huh. There's a blue tinted one and a red tinted one.

00:59:33 ◼   ► And I have the red tinted one because I have a red iPhone case.

00:59:35 ◼   ► Open your settings app. Go to wallpaper.

00:59:37 ◼   ► It's open right now. I'm scrolling through.

00:59:41 ◼   ► Oh dear God, you're right.

00:59:44 ◼   ► See? I told you.

00:59:45 ◼   ► I can't believe that's one of the built-in ones.

00:59:47 ◼   ► It's great.

00:59:48 ◼   ► No, it is not great.

00:59:49 ◼   ► It is great.

00:59:50 ◼   ► It's not great. Listeners, listeners, go look at the show notes and ask yourself,

00:59:57 ◼   ► which phone would you rather use? You know what the answer is going to be.

01:00:01 ◼   ► I have more personality than yours, Greg. It's all like, you know, it's like a robot in there.

01:00:07 ◼   ► I've got like a clown going on or something.

01:00:09 ◼   ► This looks like, yeah, this looks like someone just puked a bunch of neon and squares all over the place.

01:00:16 ◼   ► I do feel like that. Having now looked at yours and now looking at mine,

01:00:20 ◼   ► I'm looking at it like on my screen because I'm looking at it on my laptop here. It's bigger than usual and it's like

01:00:25 ◼   ► Oh my god, it looks like a clown vomited like

01:00:27 ◼   ► It doesn't help because I have a lot of color on the icons as well. Yeah, I mean well

01:00:34 ◼   ► This is I didn't even want to get into my crazy obsession with this

01:00:38 ◼   ► But part of the problem with me arranging the icons is you have to distribute colors appropriately

01:00:42 ◼   ► And I and the various icons that I have are way too white and orange heavy

01:00:47 ◼   ► and it took forever to try to figure out how to arrange them.

01:00:49 ◼   ► But yeah, you have a lot of color icons here, but you have the camera icon on your home screen,

01:00:53 ◼   ► but you can just get that from Control Center. You don't need that icon there. Get rid of that.

01:00:57 ◼   ► But that doesn't work properly. But also, the camera serves two purposes.

01:01:01 ◼   ► It's also the way I get to my photos.

01:01:03 ◼   ► So that is the life hack.

01:01:06 ◼   ► Do you have three pages of this? Because I'm looking, you have three dots on the bottom.

01:01:09 ◼   ► Yeah. Do you want to see the other pages?

01:01:12 ◼   ► I don't know if I can handle the other pages.

01:01:14 ◼   ► It's lots of stuff and lots of folders.

01:01:16 ◼   ► This is the thing, like if I have to move things off this homepage, I don't know where

01:01:20 ◼   ► they're gonna go. That's the problem. That's one of the main reasons that it stays as it

01:01:23 ◼   ► is, because I don't know where to put stuff.

01:01:25 ◼   ► Okay, send me the other ones. Send me others.

01:01:27 ◼   ► This show was meant to be looking at the interesting ways that you work, and now it has actually

01:01:31 ◼   ► turned into what I expected, which was you ridiculing the way that I work.

01:01:37 ◼   ► I mean, I have to say, when I'm looking at this on my phone, because I want to get the

01:01:41 ◼   ► full experience.

01:01:42 ◼   ► Oh, that's a good idea. I like that.

01:01:44 ◼   ► there I can tap it and then it takes up the whole screen and so it is though I

01:01:47 ◼   ► am using your phone and now that I have all three pictures I can swipe back and

01:01:51 ◼   ► forth just like it's the three pages. I mean I don't know any other way to

01:01:55 ◼   ► describe this than just disgusting. This is just disgusting to me Myke.

01:02:00 ◼   ► I assume right now that this is like attacking your senses? I don't know I

01:02:07 ◼   ► don't know how you I don't know how you do anything on here I don't know how you

01:02:10 ◼   ► find anything on here. I use the search quite a lot. Everything just looks like

01:02:14 ◼   ► crap. Okay so this is what I was going to ask. I mean please include these other - I

01:02:18 ◼   ► don't know if you can - but if you know please include these other two

01:02:21 ◼   ► screenshots so people can see the floor. I mean first of all like you your

01:02:24 ◼   ► folders are just random all over the place it makes no sense at all. Well to

01:02:28 ◼   ► you. I don't think it makes sense to you. I don't think I don't think it can

01:02:32 ◼   ► possibly make sense to you. Now - one thing that I really don't like I don't

01:02:37 ◼   ► I don't like having apps on a second and third page of a folder.

01:02:42 ◼   ► That frustrates me. I don't like that.

01:02:45 ◼   ► Okay.

01:02:45 ◼   ► I wish that there was no preview of the icons, because then...

01:02:49 ◼   ► That's why. Because I can see the little icons in there.

01:02:52 ◼   ► If they're on the second page, I don't like that.

01:02:55 ◼   ► I wish it was just no icon at all.

01:02:57 ◼   ► I couldn't see anything that was in the folders, then I could put more stuff in folders.

01:03:01 ◼   ► I don't like them hidden away like that.

01:03:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I wish there was a way to just specify that I...

01:03:05 ◼   ► There's two things that I want

01:03:07 ◼   ► that Apple will never give me.

01:03:09 ◼   ► I want opaque folders,

01:03:11 ◼   ► so it doesn't even show me what's in there,

01:03:13 ◼   ► or maybe I can select a representative icon or something.

01:03:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:03:17 ◼   ► - But that's the thing that I hate the most

01:03:18 ◼   ► about my iPhone now,

01:03:19 ◼   ► is seeing those junky folders at the top.

01:03:21 ◼   ► But I'm willing to pay that visual price

01:03:24 ◼   ► for having the one screen.

01:03:26 ◼   ► The second thing that I want,

01:03:28 ◼   ► is I want the option to turn off the words

01:03:32 ◼   ► underneath the icons.

01:03:34 ◼   ► Why does it have to say audible below the icon?

01:03:38 ◼   ► I know what that icon is.

01:03:39 ◼   ► - You know what's gonna happen now, right?

01:03:41 ◼   ► - What? - Android people.

01:03:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know Android people will tell us.

01:03:45 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:03:46 ◼   ► I know, this is what happens.

01:03:48 ◼   ► It can never mention, if I ever mention a setting,

01:03:50 ◼   ► it's like, listen, Android people,

01:03:51 ◼   ► I know that you have settings to change everything.

01:03:53 ◼   ► I'm fully aware of that.

01:03:54 ◼   ► See our previous 20 minute discussion about changing.

01:03:58 ◼   ► But I want to be able to take away the words.

01:04:01 ◼   ► I find the words are visual clutter that I have no need.

01:04:04 ◼   ► The purpose of the icon is to be able to identify the app.

01:04:09 ◼   ► I don't need to read it.

01:04:10 ◼   ► I'm not looking at that screen going,

01:04:12 ◼   ► hmm, I wonder what the pink music note is.

01:04:14 ◼   ► Oh, it's music.

01:04:15 ◼   ► Thank you, word below the picture.

01:04:17 ◼   ► There's no need for this.

01:04:18 ◼   ► I wish I could get rid of that.

01:04:19 ◼   ► And I would love it if I could get rid of those words,

01:04:22 ◼   ► but I can't.

01:04:23 ◼   ► So I want to visually simplify this even better.

01:04:26 ◼   ► But okay, so just to step back for a second,

01:04:29 ◼   ► because you mentioned that because you have no kind of system at all, you use search to

01:04:35 ◼   ► try to find your stuff because there's just crap everywhere in random spots.

01:04:38 ◼   ► That's what you have to do.

01:04:40 ◼   ► Now I use search for everything basically that's not immediately visible.

01:04:47 ◼   ► And what I'm wondering is I may have more apps on my phone than you do.

01:04:52 ◼   ► I want you to look it up on your phone right now.

01:04:54 ◼   ► Do you know where to go?

01:04:55 ◼   ► I'm just curious.

01:04:56 ◼   ► I'm just going to get my phone.

01:04:57 ◼   ► What are you doing?

01:04:58 ◼   ► Why are you leaving your phone all over the place?

01:05:00 ◼   ► It's charging! It's charging!

01:05:02 ◼   ► Why don't you have a charger where you're sitting?

01:05:04 ◼   ► That's a thing that I need to do.

01:05:06 ◼   ► Yeah, it is a thing you need to do.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Where is he going?

01:05:11 ◼   ► Plus, I didn't want it, so I was distracted.

01:05:13 ◼   ► Uh huh.

01:05:15 ◼   ► I need to give you my full attention.

01:05:16 ◼   ► Yeah, you gotta maintain focus.

01:05:18 ◼   ► So, yeah, I know where to go. So I'm going there now.

01:05:20 ◼   ► Uh, yeah, so it's under Settings, General, About.

01:05:23 ◼   ► Okay.

01:05:24 ◼   ► I have 113 applications on my phone. How many do you have?

01:05:27 ◼   ► do you have? Aha! I have 194. Okay. I don't even know why. I had no idea. The thing, when

01:05:37 ◼   ► I got this phone, I started fresh. I don't know what's happened. I don't know how I've

01:05:42 ◼   ► done this. You have done this. You have done this to yourself. You've ruined everything.

01:05:47 ◼   ► I have ruined nothing. You have ruined everything. I have just pointed to the ruin. Because now

01:05:52 ◼   ► Now I want my phone to look like yours.

01:05:56 ◼   ► I mean, you gotta do something about that, Myke.

01:05:59 ◼   ► I know.

01:06:00 ◼   ► See, this is why.

01:06:02 ◼   ► You know I'm right.

01:06:03 ◼   ► You know the three icons on the bottom looks much nicer.

01:06:06 ◼   ► You know the one page is nicer.

01:06:07 ◼   ► No, I will not have the three icons on the bottom.

01:06:10 ◼   ► I will always have four.

01:06:11 ◼   ► I mean, I'm looking at this picture still, and it just seems like there's no rhyme or

01:06:15 ◼   ► reason to anything.

01:06:17 ◼   ► There's no rhyme or reason to any of this.

01:06:18 ◼   ► Well, there is.

01:06:19 ◼   ► Do you want me to talk you through it?

01:06:22 ◼   ► I mean, you can try.

01:06:26 ◼   ► So the doc consists of Tweetbot, Mailbox, Chrome, and Overcast.

01:06:30 ◼   ► They are my most used, most beloved applications.

01:06:34 ◼   ► So they live there.

01:06:35 ◼   ► I use them constantly.

01:06:36 ◼   ► I don't even think you should have Twitter on your phone, but that's a whole other conversation.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:06:40 ◼   ► I'm writing that down.

01:06:46 ◼   ► Episode number 11.

01:06:47 ◼   ► Okay.

01:06:48 ◼   ► nine. Then I have messaging applications, messages, Whatsapp and Slack. Right. They

01:06:57 ◼   ► are there, I use those, they're my messaging apps. I then have Beats, right? Because it

01:07:02 ◼   ► sits above Overcast. That's like the audio portion. Then I have 1Password,

01:07:08 ◼   ► Fantastic Hell, OmniFocus and Workflow. That is the productivity section.

01:07:14 ◼   ► It's where I get stuff done. I can't believe there wasn't a calendar on your

01:07:17 ◼   ► home screen. Nope. That will be the calendaring episode. Then Launch Center Pro lives above

01:07:24 ◼   ► workflow. I can't imagine a worse... oh wait, you use your phone right-handed, don't you?

01:07:31 ◼   ► Yeah. Okay, I'm looking at that thing, that's a terrible place for Launch Center Pro. But

01:07:35 ◼   ► oh, if you're using it right-handed, then that's fine. Yeah, that was actually picked

01:07:38 ◼   ► as one of the prime places for me. Yeah, that's an easy spot. Then I have camera stuff. Camera,

01:07:45 ◼   ► Periscope. Periscope on the home page? Yeah that was a bad mistake that needs to come off. Yeah

01:07:51 ◼   ► it's terrible. I don't know why I ever did that. Terrible decision. I was really excited about it

01:07:55 ◼   ► one day and then it got moved to my home screen. I don't know why. Then I have um this next line

01:08:01 ◼   ► makes no sense. Yeah yeah your RSS reader, Evernote, Dropbox, Google Maps. Oh yeah those all

01:08:06 ◼   ► those four go together obviously. There's no thing there. Clear and Dew they go together because

01:08:13 ◼   ► because they're kind of remindery type things.

01:08:15 ◼   ► How do you say it again?

01:08:17 ◼   ► - Do.

01:08:18 ◼   ► - Do.

01:08:19 ◼   ► Then I have Foursquare, because,

01:08:22 ◼   ► and this is all falling apart.

01:08:24 ◼   ► - I mean, look at you, you're putting the two,

01:08:26 ◼   ► the two white colored apps next to each other.

01:08:28 ◼   ► I mean, even unread above the camera,

01:08:30 ◼   ► you have two grayscale apps right above each other,

01:08:32 ◼   ► and then above one password, it's just,

01:08:34 ◼   ► it's visually hard to parse.

01:08:37 ◼   ► You have editorial above do,

01:08:38 ◼   ► which are, you have the older version of editorial,

01:08:40 ◼   ► so it's white.

01:08:41 ◼   ► This is, this is no good.

01:08:43 ◼   ► I mean, in your doc you have mailbox and Chrome next to each other,

01:08:45 ◼   ► which are visually similar.

01:08:46 ◼   ► And then you have the phone at the top left,

01:08:48 ◼   ► which you already admit that you don't use.

01:08:50 ◼   ► So that's that's the phone at the top left is there because I think it's always

01:08:53 ◼   ► been there.

01:08:54 ◼   ► Right. So you never thought about it.

01:08:55 ◼   ► You never went about it in any kind of rational way. You just left it there.

01:08:59 ◼   ► Great. Okay. And then day one of your journaling application.

01:09:03 ◼   ► Yep. I need to seriously rethink this now.

01:09:06 ◼   ► Yeah, you do.

01:09:07 ◼   ► And I will never forgive you for that.

01:09:10 ◼   ► We need to have like a little sit down next time we meet up for lunch.

01:09:13 ◼   ► I want to, now I've decided I want to make my phone look like your phone.

01:09:19 ◼   ► I think that would be good for you.

01:09:20 ◼   ► With four icons in the dock because I'm civilized.

01:09:24 ◼   ► Three icons in the dock because it looks much nicer.

01:09:25 ◼   ► Yeah but where, I'll be missing one.

01:09:28 ◼   ► You don't need Tweetbot.

01:09:29 ◼   ► You can take Tweetbot off that.

01:09:31 ◼   ► That's the one I need the most buddy.

01:09:34 ◼   ► No, goodbye Tweetbot.

01:09:37 ◼   ► Twitter isn't even installed on my phone.

01:09:38 ◼   ► shouldn't have Twitter on your phone. But then how will I talk to anybody? How will I like Twitter? If I don't have Twitter on my phone how will I tweet? I don't understand. We will discuss it in episode 9.

01:09:52 ◼   ► This episode of Cortex is also brought to you by igloo the internet you'll actually like. We're talking about work here and I know that so many people I used to be one of those people I believe Gray probably one of those people as well used to have to use intranet products.

01:10:06 ◼   ► Intranet products that are so boring and horrible to look at and terrible to use that you have to like just accept HR policies on

01:10:13 ◼   ► And basically just read some important announcement from a stuffy executive somewhere or some boring stuff like that

01:10:19 ◼   ► That's the stuff that we all hate to do

01:10:21 ◼   ► Nobody wants to use an intranet in that way is boring and it looks like these things were built in the 90s

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01:11:11 ◼   ► You can even do this in your pajamas and nobody will know, nobody will judge you.

01:11:14 ◼   ► I won't judge you. These days everything should be on mobile. Your work should be too and so should your

01:11:21 ◼   ► intranet. One of the problems with living mobile lives like we have these days is that people sign up for loads of different services like

01:11:28 ◼   ► box and google drive and dropbox and they want to keep their stuff with them right because they're

01:11:32 ◼   ► going to be out of the office so they put them in dropbox so they can access them at home this can

01:11:36 ◼   ► be problematic for so many different reasons because you can have security problems right

01:11:41 ◼   ► we don't really want to talk about those but they can happen they can be serious security problems

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01:12:49 ◼   ► Thank you so much to igloo for supporting this show and all of relay FM.

01:12:53 ◼   ► [BEEP]

01:12:54 ◼   ► How much do you even consider using your Mac in this way?

01:12:57 ◼   ► Like, do you even think about like what goes on your dock

01:12:59 ◼   ► and what goes on your menu bar is an important thing?

01:13:01 ◼   ► I have nothing in my dock.

01:13:04 ◼   ► Whoa.

01:13:04 ◼   ► OK, we need to go back to this again.

01:13:07 ◼   ► Do you seriously have nothing in your dock?

01:13:09 ◼   ► To a first approximation, that is true.

01:13:12 ◼   ► What are the two?

01:13:14 ◼   ► There are two applications that I do leave in my dock,

01:13:17 ◼   ► But that is only because I always want them in the same location on the dock

01:13:20 ◼   ► But otherwise I have no applications in my dock. The only two things that live there permanently are

01:13:25 ◼   ► Activity monitor because I just want to be able to see it. I have it next to finder

01:13:30 ◼   ► I want it in the same spot every time I bring up the dock and I have a program called anti RSI which is to

01:13:36 ◼   ► Remind me to stop using the computer at particular times

01:13:39 ◼   ► So those two are in my dock, but it is only because I want their icons in the same place all the time

01:13:45 ◼   ► Otherwise, no dock icons. My dock is minimized and there are no icons.

01:13:51 ◼   ► Please don't tell me it's on the bottom.

01:13:54 ◼   ► It is on the bottom but it doesn't matter.

01:13:56 ◼   ► Great! No!

01:13:58 ◼   ► Why does this bother you?

01:14:02 ◼   ► It takes up so much screen real estate.

01:14:04 ◼   ► But can I tell you something that's probably going to drive you crazy?

01:14:06 ◼   ► I have a couple of computers and actually the dock location is inconsistent between them.

01:14:10 ◼   ► On a couple of them it's on the side and some of them it's on the bottom.

01:14:14 ◼   ► I don't understand how I can be criticized about my iPhone.

01:14:19 ◼   ► But here's the thing.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Because I never use the dock to launch anything,

01:14:23 ◼   ► and because it's always hidden, I don't even really ever

01:14:26 ◼   ► pull it up.

01:14:27 ◼   ► I never look at the dock.

01:14:28 ◼   ► So if it's hidden, it doesn't matter what's on there.

01:14:31 ◼   ► I never use it.

01:14:32 ◼   ► So it doesn't make any difference if it's on the side

01:14:33 ◼   ► or if it's on the bottom.

01:14:35 ◼   ► One of these days, I'll make all the computers consistent.

01:14:37 ◼   ► But I just--

01:14:38 ◼   ► I don't care because I never look at it.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Activity monitor, though.

01:14:41 ◼   ► Is that really-- that's crazy to me

01:14:43 ◼   ► that's that important, that it's not only open all the time, but is pretty much the

01:14:48 ◼   ► only app, right? Because the RSI thing is like a utility, it's like a thing. But it's

01:14:53 ◼   ► the only app really that you ordain to live. I mean, you have a really powerful computer,

01:14:58 ◼   ► like what's the issue that you're finding there?

01:15:01 ◼   ► The reason it's there is for when I'm exporting stuff. It is useful to see if programs have

01:15:06 ◼   ► frozen or if they're busy. I mean, I don't use it a ton, but it just gives me a sense

01:15:12 ◼   ► Like, what's the system up to in situations where it might be ambiguous?

01:15:16 ◼   ► So when I'm exporting animations, is the usual culprit of, "Did the system just freeze, or is it busy for the next couple hours churning away at a two-hour long Hello Internet video for YouTube?"

01:15:28 ◼   ► That's why I have it there. But I don't use it very much. It's just more that I want it consistent if it is open on all the systems.

01:15:34 ◼   ► So I can quickly go look and see if there's a problem with something, or something needs to be killed.

01:15:37 ◼   ► Do you care about what lives in your menu bar?

01:15:39 ◼   ► That I am very picky about and definitely for the show notes for listeners.

01:15:43 ◼   ► If you are picky about the icons that live on the top of your menu bar, I use Bartender.

01:15:49 ◼   ► Yes.

01:15:50 ◼   ► Which is excellent.

01:15:51 ◼   ► It is an excellent little app that gives me a little box on the menu bar which I can hide

01:15:56 ◼   ► a million ugly little icons in.

01:15:59 ◼   ► So there are very, very few icons that are actually visible all the time on my menu bar.

01:16:06 ◼   ► There's the Bluetooth status, there's volume, I do have Time Machine, but that's only because

01:16:12 ◼   ► I need to keep an eye on that, I've just switched over systems and I want to make sure it's

01:16:16 ◼   ► working right.

01:16:18 ◼   ► There is the input menu, so that I can see that my computer is in Dvorak, because every

01:16:23 ◼   ► once in a while it likes to switch over to a different keyboard, which is super fun.

01:16:27 ◼   ► I use the Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard, which is a PC keyboard.

01:16:32 ◼   ► Right, yes, I know that one.

01:16:33 ◼   ► So I have to change mine to like PC British or otherwise just nothing works.

01:16:40 ◼   ► Basically, I may as well be using a Dvorak keyboard at that point because it's just like

01:16:45 ◼   ► I just don't recognize any key input.

01:16:47 ◼   ► Yeah, so I have the Dvorak keyboard thing, I have the Wi-Fi indicator, and then the one

01:16:55 ◼   ► that drives some people crazy when they see my computer is that I have what's called a

01:17:00 ◼   ► fuzzy clock.

01:17:02 ◼   ► I used to use one of these.

01:17:04 ◼   ► The fuzzy clock, on my clock right now,

01:17:06 ◼   ► it doesn't display the time as a number.

01:17:10 ◼   ► It displays it as a little sentence.

01:17:12 ◼   ► So it says quarter past four.

01:17:14 ◼   ► The words are written out on my computer right now.

01:17:17 ◼   ► I can actually take a little screen shot for people.

01:17:19 ◼   ► It's actually 16, 17 right now.

01:17:21 ◼   ► Yeah, but who cares?

01:17:22 ◼   ► I don't care.

01:17:23 ◼   ► I don't need to know the time that precisely.

01:17:25 ◼   ► And I really like having the fuzzy clock.

01:17:27 ◼   ► I don't like having the little number.

01:17:29 ◼   ► And for some reason I just find it's much easier and I don't live a life that I need to know to the minute what time it is.

01:17:36 ◼   ► It just doesn't matter to me.

01:17:38 ◼   ► So I like the ambiguity and it's somehow...

01:17:42 ◼   ► It's just somehow clearer in my mind the notion of "Oh, it is 5 o'clock."

01:17:47 ◼   ► "Is it 5.03? Maybe. I don't care."

01:17:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I get that. I do actually get that. I like that.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Because as well, if you use an analogue watch face, that's how you tell the time.

01:17:57 ◼   ► Yeah, it's very similar to the analog watch face thing.

01:18:01 ◼   ► You don't look at an analog clock and be like, "Oh, let me just hang on a minute.

01:18:05 ◼   ► I just need to swear exactly.

01:18:07 ◼   ► One, two, three."

01:18:09 ◼   ► Nobody does that.

01:18:10 ◼   ► There.

01:18:11 ◼   ► I sent you the thing for your show notes.

01:18:12 ◼   ► You can use that.

01:18:13 ◼   ► We massively diverged from the overall point of what I was driving at today.

01:18:19 ◼   ► Is this what you wanted?

01:18:20 ◼   ► Is this what you wanted this conversation to be?

01:18:22 ◼   ► Yes.

01:18:23 ◼   ► I feel like it got away from you, though.

01:18:24 ◼   ► wasn't what I planned, but looking back on it, this is exactly what I wanted. When I

01:18:30 ◼   ► wanted us to do this show, that last 20 minutes was exactly what I hoped would happen. Basically,

01:18:39 ◼   ► I don't understand you and you're really disappointed in me. This is how I expect the next few episodes

01:18:46 ◼   ► to go.

01:18:49 ◼   ► I'm glad that's what you wanted and I'm glad that's what you got, Myke.

01:18:54 ◼   ► I guarantee I'm very disappointed in you. But I wanted to set out with you to

01:19:01 ◼   ► start looking at the devices that you use and the choices that you make and

01:19:04 ◼   ► the way that you arrange them to ask the simple question of do you think that

01:19:10 ◼   ► any of this actually makes you work better? The hardware decisions, the way

01:19:14 ◼   ► that you organize things, the choices that you make, do you think that they

01:19:17 ◼   ► actually make you work faster, harder or smarter or do you think it's just a

01:19:22 ◼   ► thing that we do or that you do to just make you feel more comfortable to do the

01:19:28 ◼   ► work. Like the actual choices that you make intrinsically the choice doesn't

01:19:33 ◼   ► help you do the work it's just you feel more comfortable to get the work done.

01:19:37 ◼   ► All we have in life are the choices we make. I've made a whole bunch of choices

01:19:43 ◼   ► with regards to the hardware and the software that I use and then I observe

01:19:50 ◼   ► the changes in my own behavior as a result of those. And a lot of it is just

01:19:58 ◼   ► making a decision so that a piece of technology becomes almost invisible. Like

01:20:04 ◼   ► I don't really think about my Mac very much. It's almost semi invisible in

01:20:11 ◼   ► my life in a way. It's just a machine that I sit down at and I have my desk

01:20:15 ◼   ► and my chair and I sit here and I do work on it. And that's what I

01:20:20 ◼   ► want from it. But I'm always messing around and tinkering with my system to try to see

01:20:26 ◼   ► how can things potentially be better. And I mentioned earlier, the thing with clear

01:20:31 ◼   ► is something that I'm trying now to have two items always visible. Does this make a difference?

01:20:37 ◼   ► I think it does, but I haven't been doing it long enough to be able to tell. So, some

01:20:44 ◼   ► Some decisions, yes, they help the workflow.

01:20:49 ◼   ► I don't necessarily...

01:20:52 ◼   ► It's hard to say if I'm faster with particular decisions.

01:20:55 ◼   ► Like if I had learned a different audio program, would I be faster with that than Logic?

01:21:01 ◼   ► Probably not.

01:21:02 ◼   ► It probably wouldn't make much of a difference.

01:21:03 ◼   ► I just had to pick some audio program.

01:21:06 ◼   ► So I might as well continue with my doubling down on Apple.

01:21:08 ◼   ► So I went with Logic.

01:21:11 ◼   ► But things like selecting timer applications or task manager applications, those things

01:21:18 ◼   ► I can observe, they do make a difference.

01:21:20 ◼   ► Like having a better timer application matters.

01:21:25 ◼   ► Having a better to-do list manager matters.

01:21:28 ◼   ► It makes a difference.

01:21:30 ◼   ► But then there's stuff just like arranging all of the icons on my phone and picking a

01:21:34 ◼   ► pleasing background is just because I don't want to live a life where a clown has vomited

01:21:40 ◼   ► on my phone and I have to deal with that every day. Like I would like a nice calming, relaxing,

01:21:47 ◼   ► easily visually parsable environment in which to work. Unlike some people.

01:21:54 ◼   ► We have a couple of mechanisms to receive follow-up and feedback for Cortex. Now, you

01:22:02 ◼   ► can email us, but we will probably get to this at some point. We would both really prefer

01:22:09 ◼   ► it if you didn't email. You can! If you go to our page online, if you go to relay.fm/cortex,

01:22:17 ◼   ► you will be able to click a button that says contact and it will open your email application

01:22:21 ◼   ► and you can write an email and it will go to me, it will not go to Gray.

01:22:25 ◼   ► I was gonna say, and you can email Myke.

01:22:27 ◼   ► 100% it will never go to him. It will just go to me. So, you know, treat that as it will,

01:22:34 ◼   ► you may, but both me and Gray are not big fans of email. If you have something that

01:22:40 ◼   ► is long that you want to say and you really want to say it, feel free to do it. You just

01:22:44 ◼   ► get it out there. But if it's something you can say over Twitter or on Reddit or something

01:22:49 ◼   ► like that, please do it there, because that is a way that we both prefer to receive feedback,

01:22:56 ◼   ► because it's easier to digest, I think.

01:22:58 ◼   ► Yes, we are recording this show fairly well in advance, but when it actually goes live,

01:23:04 ◼   ► I will have a, I will put up a thread on my subreddit where people can discuss this and

01:23:10 ◼   ► people can tweet at you or me, and that is a way in which your feedback will probably

01:23:15 ◼   ► be much more well received than emailing Myke.

01:23:20 ◼   ► Although I have no problem with emailing Myke.

01:23:22 ◼   ► That works fine by me, but, you know, the Reddit is probably better.

01:23:25 ◼   ► You would say that.

01:23:27 ◼   ► I can copy you into all my responses.

01:23:30 ◼   ► - I can create a filter that will delete all of those.

01:23:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:23:34 ◼   ► - I would.

01:23:35 ◼   ► I will set up multiple email accounts

01:23:36 ◼   ► and use different subject lines.

01:23:38 ◼   ► You'll never get away from me.

01:23:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:23:41 ◼   ► How do people get to the Reddit?

01:23:42 ◼   ► Like what is the way to do that?

01:23:44 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, of course.

01:23:45 ◼   ► - For example, I have no clue.

01:23:47 ◼   ► So you need to tell me.

01:23:49 ◼   ► - I feel like Reddit is so omnipresent in my life.

01:23:52 ◼   ► Who wouldn't know how to get to the Reddit?

01:23:54 ◼   ► you go to reddit.com/r/cgpgray and on there you will see a link that'll say "Cortex #1"

01:24:07 ◼   ► and you can click that and participate in the comment thread.

01:24:11 ◼   ► Awesome. Gray mentioned Twitter as well. We are both on Twitter. Gray is @cgpgray. And

01:24:18 ◼   ► I am @imike. I-M-Y-K-E. And also, this is something that I want to do for this show.

01:24:23 ◼   ► So we're gonna do the regular follow-up and stuff at the start of the show, as you'll

01:24:27 ◼   ► hear in many shows.

01:24:29 ◼   ► But there is something I would like to do at the end of each show, which will be called

01:24:33 ◼   ► Ask Gray.

01:24:35 ◼   ► Now this is a method that I do just on a couple of other shows that I host on Real AFM.

01:24:40 ◼   ► And what it does is, it allows you to ask us, I guess especially Gray, questions.

01:24:46 ◼   ► So this can be, it doesn't even necessarily have to be follow-up, it can be just things

01:24:50 ◼   ► that you wanna know, you know, about.

01:24:53 ◼   ► hear us talk a lot about work and stuff like that. You may have seen an app for

01:24:56 ◼   ► example on my home screens or Grey's home screens that you want to know a

01:25:00 ◼   ► little bit more about so you could tweet and ask us that question. Or maybe you

01:25:04 ◼   ► want to understand a little bit more about Activity Monitor and why or why

01:25:08 ◼   ► you would consider it to be so important that you would leave it in your doc.

01:25:13 ◼   ► Or why, you know, or maybe you have just a quick comment about why magnifying the

01:25:19 ◼   ► Doc is like it's just the worst thing you could ever do. You can if you just

01:25:23 ◼   ► tweet with the hashtag #askgray, A-S-K-G-R-E-Y, it will go into a document that we

01:25:30 ◼   ► will control and then we'll be able to bring in the ones that we want to talk

01:25:33 ◼   ► about each week and we can mention them and it's a really fun way to ask

01:25:36 ◼   ► questions and be involved in the show and it's a great way to get follow-up

01:25:39 ◼   ► and feedback and stuff like that. Yeah I've never done anything like this so

01:25:42 ◼   ► I'm curious to see how this goes. We'll see how this goes but we will not be

01:25:47 ◼   ► able to do it for the next episode because I believe we're recording that

01:25:50 ◼   ► in advance so we won't have Ask Ray next time but we will have it on the third

01:25:55 ◼   ► episode I guess is that the way this is going to work?

01:25:57 ◼   ► Yes so the first two episodes we're recording before we release them.

01:26:03 ◼   ► Like you know we're recording them in advance before the show is even live to

01:26:07 ◼   ► the internet so episode three I expect to be chock-full of follow-up and

01:26:12 ◼   ► questions and feedback about the show. So I'm looking forward to that episode

01:26:17 ◼   ► Maybe before then I would have changed my entire, just the way I do everything

01:26:21 ◼   ► in my life. Who knows? I sure hope so. As I am pushed into changing things. But I

01:26:29 ◼   ► think that's probably about it, Gray. Okay, yeah. I'm glad this is what you wanted.

01:26:34 ◼   ► I don't know if I... I wanted something! But I don't know if I got what I was

01:26:41 ◼   ► originally intending to get.

01:26:43 ◼   ► Alright, I'll see you next week.

01:26:47 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:26:49 ◼   ► [BLANK_AUDIO]