0:00:00This is the beach setup, so it's like, still the iMac Pro.
0:00:03- Did you use your fancy carrying case again?
0:00:06- Not only did I use my fancy carrying case,
0:00:07but I took Underscore's recommendation and added for $35
0:00:12a wheeled dolly to it, also known as a hand truck.
0:00:16'Cause you can get foldable, light duty ones
0:00:20that weigh like six pounds and fold up to be all flat
0:00:22and compact for like 35 bucks on Amazon.
0:00:25So I got one of those, I carried it on the boat
0:00:27with the dolly in the pocket.
0:00:29When it came time to carry it off the boat
0:00:31and walk it to the house like a half mile away,
0:00:34I just stuck the wheels on.
0:00:35- Did you discover luggage dollies?
0:00:37Is that what I'm coming in the middle of here?
0:00:39- Yes, yes, I discovered dollies.
0:00:41- I use that one, I think I describe using that
0:00:43to take my 27 inch Thunderbolt display
0:00:46to and from the Apple Store like three times.
0:00:48Remember when I had to do that?
0:00:49- Yeah, like if I have to take my iMac in again,
0:00:52'cause I took my iMac in once before
0:00:54for the image retention stuff that I had
0:00:55for the previous iMac, now I will definitely use this
0:00:59for that as well.
0:01:00Like this has now made my ridiculous iMac carrying case
0:01:04a lot more useful because it's just a simple,
0:01:09I didn't even get the big four wheel kind,
0:01:10just the basic two wheel kind,
0:01:12so it would fold up nice and small
0:01:14and it would be pretty lightweight itself.
0:01:15I didn't want like an extra 13 pounds of metal
0:01:18for just this thing to make it easier
0:01:20for me to carry something,
0:01:21something smaller and lighter was good.
0:01:23But yeah, it made it a million times easier.
0:01:25So now I'm even more a fan of the solution
0:01:29of bringing my iMac to the beach with wheels now.
0:01:32And I'm even less leaning in the direction of a Mac Pro now
0:01:37because the iMac Pro has proven to be such a good solution.
0:01:40- You didn't even need that fancy case.
0:01:43I think actually the original box,
0:01:44if you still had it, is even better
0:01:46because it's like stiff, you know, so it's good.
0:01:49What I would use is the little bungee cords or whatever
0:01:52to wrap over the front of the thing, you know, just.
0:01:54- Actually, I have the original box.
0:01:56I didn't bring it, but I do have it.
0:01:58I also bought a bunch of bungee cords,
0:02:01but I didn't actually need them
0:02:02and I sent them home with the next bag
0:02:04because the carrying case has straps,
0:02:08like it has like a shoulder strap.
0:02:09And if I made it, I made the shoulder strap
0:02:11as small as it goes and that was basically
0:02:13a perfect strap to go over the handle of the dolly.
0:02:15So it was very secure.
0:02:17It didn't wiggle or try to fall off at all.
0:02:20- Just so we don't get into any corrections,
0:02:22we should say that dollies have four wheels
0:02:25and hand trucks have two.
0:02:27- Okay, so what I have is a hand truck then.
0:02:29- But I think everyone just calls them dollies
0:02:31and we all know what we're talking about,
0:02:32but the pendants will be out and say,
0:02:34technically, that's a hand truck.
0:02:36Can you, did you already put a link to your thing?
0:02:39'Cause when we're talking about things for luggage size,
0:02:41it's different than the other thing anyway,
0:02:42but so maybe they have a different name when they're small.
0:02:45- It was the one that Amazon sent was the best one.
0:02:48- Mine is like super old.
0:02:49I think it's mine is from the days before luggage had wheels.
0:02:52Do you guys remember that or you old enough to remember
0:02:54before luggage had wheels?
0:02:55- Yeah.
0:02:56- I didn't have wheeled luggage until a few years ago.
0:02:58- Few years ago, anyway.
0:02:59I thought that wheeled luggage came in
0:03:01sometime around my childhood,
0:03:03but before that we had tons of suitcases
0:03:04that just had one handle on one side of them and that's it.
0:03:08Oh, these are very fancy, you know.
0:03:10- Yeah, this is the Magna Carte Personal,
0:03:12150 pound capacity aluminum folding hand truck,
0:03:14black and red, $29.99,
0:03:16and it only weighs about six pounds.
0:03:18It's great and it collapses.
0:03:20It's really nice.
0:03:21- That's way more complicated than the one I have.
0:03:23The one I have is like one half that number of parts,
0:03:25but it's the same thing.
0:03:26It's a metal frame with a fold down flap and two wheels,
0:03:29so it's not much to it.
0:03:30- And the wheels are rubberized,
0:03:32so it moves really nicely.
0:03:34I was surprised how nice it was
0:03:36for how little it weighed and how little it cost.
0:03:39- Well, I am glad that you are in paradise
0:03:41on your beloved computer.
0:03:43You really think you're not gonna buy at least one Mac Pro?
0:03:46- I mean, look, never say never, but,
0:03:48and some people have suggested what seems like
0:03:52an obvious idea is leave the iMac Pro at the beach
0:03:56and buy a new Mac Pro for home.
0:03:58And that's, like, I can, you know,
0:04:00if I really want to do that, like, I could do that,
0:04:03but it just seems wasteful.
0:04:05It seems like--
0:04:06- It's like having two houses,
0:04:07only one of which you live in.
0:04:09(laughing)
0:04:11You're worried about the Mac.
0:04:14Having two Macs seems wasteful.
0:04:16- Well, it's just-- - So wasteful.
0:04:18- Touche.
0:04:19But, like-- - Todd, I love you.
0:04:20- It seems wasteful to buy something
0:04:22that has such a limited lifespan as a computer
0:04:24and to only use it, like, three months a year.
0:04:28- I think your real problem is, like,
0:04:29the reason it's so great for you to bring it
0:04:30is you take your computer that you were just using yesterday,
0:04:33you put it on a little dolly/hand truck,
0:04:36and you set it up, and it's like you pick up right
0:04:37where you left off, whereas if it was sitting
0:04:39in the other house, it would be like,
0:04:41well, it doesn't, like, have all my stuff in all my state.
0:04:43And you could try to do iCloud syncing
0:04:44and put your project into Dropbox or whatever,
0:04:46but it'll never be the same as, like,
0:04:48this is the exact computer I was using yesterday,
0:04:50and now I just turn it on in a new location
0:04:52and resume my work.
0:04:53So there's the syncing disadvantage,
0:04:55because Apple has not yet fully embraced the idea
0:04:58that the computer is an empty shell,
0:05:00and you log in and all your state gets pulled down
0:05:02from the network.
0:05:03They're getting closer to that, but they're not there yet.
0:05:05- Exactly, and that's, like, I mean, this is why,
0:05:07like, I mean, look, this is why everybody uses laptops,
0:05:09right, 'cause, like, if you're willing to tolerate,
0:05:12like, it turns out we already have a kind of computer
0:05:14that you can bring everywhere you go,
0:05:16and it's always the same computer, but--
0:05:17- But laptops are garbage, we already know that.
0:05:19- But yes, yeah, laptops are garbage.
0:05:21- Hi.
0:05:22I was just thinking to myself earlier today, actually,
0:05:24that I wonder, even though I really love my iMac,
0:05:27which is, it's like three years old now, what was this?
0:05:31It's a 5K, 27-inch, late 2015,
0:05:35although I think I bought it early, early, early 2016.
0:05:37Anyways, I was thinking to myself earlier today,
0:05:39I wonder if I should just get myself a brand new laptop,
0:05:43'cause I feel like I really wanna replace the adorable,
0:05:45'cause it was slow when I bought it,
0:05:46and it's getting real bad now, and the iMac is fine,
0:05:50but it's getting a little long in the tooth.
0:05:52Maybe I should just go back to the laptop
0:05:55with an external display on the desk, and--
0:05:59- What external display?
0:06:00- Well, that's problem number one, right?
0:06:01- Yes, question number one.
0:06:03- Is what external display,
0:06:04and I don't have a good answer for you there,
0:06:06but I don't know, like, I do really like having the iMac
0:06:11here at the desk, and I feel like with Dropbox,
0:06:14and GitHub, and so many other online services these days,
0:06:18and Gmail, or, you know, an equivalent,
0:06:20it's so easy to manage multiple computers
0:06:23in a way that it's never been easy before,
0:06:26and yet, I still kind of miss having just the one computer
0:06:31that is everything to, well, not to everyone, it's just me,
0:06:34but everything to everyone, so to speak, you know?
0:06:36And I don't know, at the moment, I'm not upgrading anything,
0:06:41but I can't help but wonder, you know,
0:06:43the laptop-only life is calling to me a little bit,
0:06:45and I think the thing that's gonna stop me from going there
0:06:47is, to your point, the display.
0:06:49I just don't have a good display.
0:06:50- Well, and also, like, when you're in that world,
0:06:52like, you know, I spent a long time using a laptop
0:06:55as my only computer, or at least my primary one
0:06:57for a very long time, and it was great,
0:07:00especially in that way, like, I didn't have to worry
0:07:02about syncing and everything, and transferring files,
0:07:04and making sure all my settings were the same,
0:07:06and applications were the same, like, all that stuff,
0:07:08it's a pain, that much of which is still a pain today,
0:07:11I had to worry about none of that,
0:07:12but then, like, my computer had to go in for service,
0:07:16and I just didn't have a computer for, like, a week.
0:07:19(laughs)
0:07:19Like, there are problems like that that come up, too.
0:07:22And when you're using a laptop as a desktop,
0:07:24you run into the problems of doing that.
0:07:26You run into things like the unreliability
0:07:28of external monitor usage, and if you wanna use it
0:07:31in clamshell mode, or things like wake from sleep
0:07:33are frequently unreliable, and you have issues with noise
0:07:37when you're running it really hard,
0:07:40you're gonna hear that fan spin up,
0:07:41and so, like, it just, there's just problems
0:07:44with using laptops that way, some of which are better
0:07:47these days, like things like Dropbox and iCloud sync,
0:07:50some of which are worse, like, I think the laptops today
0:07:53are less reliable than ever when it comes
0:07:55to external monitor usage, and the number
0:07:59of good external monitors to buy is lower than ever.
0:08:02- One of the other fun pipe dreams,
0:08:05along with the modular Mac that's made of a bunch
0:08:08of stackable components that connect together,
0:08:10is the idea, I think it started, or started getting Steam
0:08:13back in the iPod era, the idea that you have
0:08:16some small thing that you carry with you today,
0:08:19it would be a phone back then, it was an iPod,
0:08:21you could even imagine it as just like an external SSD
0:08:23or something, that contains all of your state, essentially.
0:08:27This is like, before cloud computing was popularized,
0:08:30just like, it's like your hard drive, your boot disk,
0:08:33all your info, and you just go from station to station,
0:08:36whether it be a desktop station with a big monitor
0:08:38and a keyboard and a mouse, or a laptop or whatever,
0:08:41and you plug in your iPod, your phone, your external drive,
0:08:46and there's all your stuff.
0:08:48And so, you carry the state with you in this little box,
0:08:52but you're able to use whatever the best computing setup
0:08:55is for you, it's, you know, dockable laptops
0:08:57are similar to that in hoteling situations
0:08:59and companies and stuff, but that fantasy,
0:09:03that like, my entire world will be on my phone,
0:09:05and I'll just sit down in front of my computer
0:09:07wirelessly, the phone will display onto a giant
0:09:0927 inch display and all that stuff,
0:09:10like that's right up there with the modular Mac,
0:09:14and for various reasons, we're not quite there,
0:09:16technologically speaking, but you can, Paul Jason Snell,
0:09:18he posted a picture the other day of like,
0:09:20an external drive duct taped to the back of his display
0:09:24on his laptop, like if you just carried a boot drive
0:09:26with you, you could boot an iMac from that external drive
0:09:31and how it'll all your state, like say it's a one terabyte
0:09:32SSD in a very small case, and then you could connect it
0:09:35to your laptop when you're on the go and boot from that
0:09:37and have it taped to the back of your display or something
0:09:40so it's not dangling off or whatever,
0:09:41and you still have basically a portable computer
0:09:43that is, like Marco's iMac Pro, it's like quote unquote,
0:09:46the same computer as you had before, although,
0:09:48of course all your Windows will be screwed up
0:09:50by constantly changing screen resolution,
0:09:51but that doesn't bother you, there you go.
0:09:54So, you can't approximate that with an external drive today,
0:09:58can't do it with a phone, certainly can't do it
0:10:00with an iPod, but the problem is, okay,
0:10:03well what if I don't wanna tape it to the back
0:10:04of my display, do I really wanna use a laptop
0:10:06with a thing dangling off of it that I can't disconnect
0:10:08'cause it is the boot drive, and as fast as USB-C is,
0:10:12it's not as fast as an internal SSD,
0:10:13so you're taking a speed hit there too,
0:10:15and it would be kind of wasteful to buy an iMac
0:10:18but always boot from some other thing,
0:10:20so you could do it today, but it's a compromise,
0:10:23but I think that is one of the dreams.
0:10:25Obviously the better version of that is I don't carry
0:10:27anything with me and all my stuff is in the cloud,
0:10:29but the realities of data transfer rates
0:10:32and waiting for things to sync and the reliability of that
0:10:35and the fact that it's not really done system-wide
0:10:38at anything except for Chrome OS means that
0:10:42we're still a little bit farther away from that dream.
0:10:44I think that dream is closer than the crazy modular
0:10:47computer made of building blocks that you snap together,
0:10:50but it may come to pass eventually,
0:10:53and then we will finally be freed from these form factor
0:10:56and state decisions that haunt us.
0:10:58- All right, so let's start with some follow-up.
0:11:02So a friend of the show, Ricky Mondello,
0:11:04had written in with regard to what Marco was talking about
0:11:06last episode with regard to overcast and sign-in
0:11:10and things like that, so they had some tips with regard
0:11:13to what to do or some thoughts or suggestions.
0:11:16So Marco, can you recap that for me please?
0:11:18- Yeah, so they pointed out what John had said last episode
0:11:21that he expected was the case.
0:11:23Ricky clarified that yes, by default,
0:11:25sign-in with Apple does not give name and email info.
0:11:29Apps have to explicitly opt in.
0:11:31I think the direction I'm going to go is what John
0:11:35recommended towards the end, when I said he was
0:11:37frustratingly correct, of basically use the current
0:11:42key value store that I'm using.
0:11:44I'm basically going to make it support multiple entries
0:11:47that point to multiple anonymous accounts on overcast.
0:11:52Same with any Apple ID could then become multiple
0:11:55and any number of anonymous overcast accounts,
0:11:58and then you would just be prompted with them
0:12:00at the login screen and you could pick which one.
0:12:01Maybe I can show you, this is from the device
0:12:03called Marco's iPhone that has these three podcasts
0:12:06as the top podcast in it, or somehow make it easy
0:12:08for you to detect which one is the right one.
0:12:11Maybe a last logged in date or something like that.
0:12:13Maybe I could use sign-in with Apple just on the web
0:12:16and have it associate with these things.
0:12:17I have no idea, but I have a lot of options here.
0:12:21And so I still haven't had time to actually explore
0:12:23these options this summer.
0:12:25I've been doing a lot of other stuff, server stuff,
0:12:27technical debt stuff, moving my entire life
0:12:29to the beach, et cetera, but I'm working on it.
0:12:33- Fair enough.
0:12:34All right, and then Hashir Rashad writes,
0:12:36in Catalina, Graffr is gone along with Dashboard.
0:12:40Sorry, Jon.
0:12:41I blame you guys for reminding Apple of Graffr.
0:12:44Remote disk and chess are still there.
0:12:46And somebody who is not supposed to do homework
0:12:50actually did some very helpful homework,
0:12:51so thank you, Jon.
0:12:52- Well, Hashir provided the timestamp link
0:12:54of our previous discussion of this.
0:12:56Well, first of all, he's wrong.
0:12:57Graffr is actually still there, so.
0:12:59- Oh. - So much for that.
0:13:00But anyway, it was worth revisiting.
0:13:02It was back in episode 287,
0:13:04Open Face Compliment Sandwich, where we,
0:13:07someone asked in an Ask ATP question,
0:13:09it was like, which one of these two things
0:13:12do you think will be removed first?
0:13:13And so we had a couple of pairings here.
0:13:15And the first one was, which one will go first,
0:13:17Dashboard or Remote Disk?
0:13:18And Casey and I said Dashboard,
0:13:20and Mark was said Remote Disk,
0:13:21and it turns out Dashboard is gone in Catalina.
0:13:24So we were right.
0:13:25But the reason I did this is 'cause I thought Graffr
0:13:27was gone too, but I'm like, you know what?
0:13:29Let me double check this.
0:13:29Let me actually look in Catalina.
0:13:31And sure enough, Graffr is still there.
0:13:32So we have no decision on chess versus Graffr,
0:13:35and we have no decision on DVD player versus OpenGL.
0:13:38Because DVD player and OpenGL and chess and Graffr
0:13:41are all in Catalina, but we will keep you posted
0:13:44as new versions come out.
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0:15:37(upbeat music)
0:15:40- All right, Marco, tell me you have some new toys,
0:15:43other than your hand truck,
0:15:45that you have been able to play with.
0:15:47So what's going on there?
0:15:50- I've been going through kind of like
0:15:52the most boring midlife crisis ever,
0:15:54like a midlife self-improvement phase, basically,
0:15:57trying to improve limitations and things about myself
0:16:01that I wasn't happy with.
0:16:02I've been exercising more, dieting better.
0:16:06I learned to swim last month for the first time ever,
0:16:08and that was a big thing.
0:16:09- You're preparing for the ocean, that's right.
0:16:12- Yep, yep.
0:16:14I taught myself to like seafood.
0:16:16- Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down.
0:16:17Tell me more.
0:16:18- That was last summer we talked about this, Casey.
0:16:19Pay attention.
0:16:20- Oh, right, right, right.
0:16:21Yeah, I started it last summer.
0:16:23I've been working on it throughout the winter also.
0:16:25Like I added sushi to my palate,
0:16:27and I still don't like all seafood,
0:16:29but I'm working on more this summer,
0:16:30'cause I'm in a place that has a lot of it,
0:16:31so getting there.
0:16:33'Cause I didn't want there to be anything
0:16:35that I just blanketly didn't like.
0:16:37- Except for windows.
0:16:38- Well, yeah.
0:16:39(laughing)
0:16:40You gotta have standards.
0:16:41But it's limiting to not like things.
0:16:44It's limiting to say like,
0:16:45oh, I can't go to the sushi restaurant with you
0:16:47because I don't like anything there.
0:16:49Like, you know, that kind of thing.
0:16:49So I guess I wanted to get rid of as many limitations
0:16:53on myself as I possibly could.
0:16:55And so dammit, I wanted to teach myself
0:16:57to be able to use AirPods.
0:16:59AirPods have never fit my ears right.
0:17:02(laughing)
0:17:03- This is gonna be a story like the binding of your feet.
0:17:06(laughing)
0:17:07You're gonna be like shaping your body
0:17:09with these series of increasingly large AirPod-shaped wedges.
0:17:12(laughing)
0:17:13- So--
0:17:14- Go ahead, go ahead.
0:17:15- So, all right, so AirPods have two problems for me.
0:17:17Number one, they fall out easily.
0:17:19Like not immediately,
0:17:20but if I go on a dog walk with AirPods,
0:17:22within about 10 minutes,
0:17:23if I haven't pushed them back in,
0:17:24they'll fall, like at least one of them will fall out.
0:17:26And the second problem is that when they are in,
0:17:29they were painful after a pretty short time.
0:17:31Like they would just hurt my ears.
0:17:34But AirPods are so damn convenient.
0:17:37You can keep headphones in your pocket all the time.
0:17:42- Yep.
0:17:43- Now, I have never had this luxury
0:17:45because I couldn't wear AirPods.
0:17:47I also couldn't wear any of the earbuds
0:17:48that came before them.
0:17:50So, I've always wanted that to have headphones
0:17:52that I could keep in my pocket all the time.
0:17:55There's also the benefits of the W1 and the H1,
0:17:59the Apple Bluetooth pairing stuff.
0:18:01These benefits are huge when you have multiple devices.
0:18:04Like right now, every time I go on a plane,
0:18:06I feel like a fool because I have my big Sony headphones
0:18:09that are Bluetooth that are nice,
0:18:10but as most Bluetooth devices,
0:18:13like I know there are some that compare
0:18:14to two or three things, but they're pretty rare.
0:18:17The more common case is most Bluetooth headphones,
0:18:19they can only be paired to one source device at a time.
0:18:21And so, if you are, say, wanting to switch
0:18:24from your iPhone to your iPad on a plane,
0:18:27or like your phone to your laptop,
0:18:29you have to re-pair the Bluetooth headphones
0:18:32to the other device, which sucks.
0:18:34- Like an animal.
0:18:35- Yeah, it's time-consuming and annoying and it sucks.
0:18:38And that's no good.
0:18:39AirPods can easily switch between multiple devices.
0:18:44And so, even though it isn't always a perfect process,
0:18:48I know occasionally it does the wrong thing,
0:18:50but it's way, way better than having to re-pair every time.
0:18:54Re-pairing is so annoying that when I'm on a plane,
0:18:56I keep my Bluetooth headphones just paired to my phone.
0:18:59And when I wanna use my laptop or my iPad,
0:19:02I get out the wire and I plug in the wire to the headphones
0:19:05and plug in the wire into the other device,
0:19:06because that's less inconvenient
0:19:08than re-pairing it both ways. (laughs)
0:19:11So anyway, going from regular Bluetooth to AirPods
0:19:16is as big of a jumping convenience
0:19:20as it was going from wired to Bluetooth in the first place.
0:19:23Like, it's that much of a change
0:19:25to have that multi-device pairing.
0:19:27So I really wanted to be able to use AirPods
0:19:29for all these reasons.
0:19:30The convenience, the pocketability, the multi-pairing,
0:19:33but my ears seemed like physically incompatible.
0:19:37So as part of the self-improvement kick,
0:19:38I figured I'm gonna make myself able to wear AirPods, damn it.
0:19:41So I started just wearing them a little bit every day.
0:19:43I figured, like, I can train my ears
0:19:46to tolerate them physically. (laughs)
0:19:49- Oh my word.
0:19:50- You put tiny bits of sandpaper on the thing
0:19:52and just wiggle it around there.
0:19:53I'm not gonna make these ears the right shape
0:19:54if it kills me. (laughs)
0:19:57- Yeah, and so I just started wearing them
0:19:58a little bit every day, thinking, you know,
0:20:00maybe I could just get my ears accustomed to them.
0:20:03- But before you embarked on this,
0:20:05did you have a consultation with someone
0:20:07who can see into your ears to say, like,
0:20:10what is it about the AirPods that, you know,
0:20:13like, is it a contact point?
0:20:15Which dimension is too small?
0:20:16Which dimension is too large?
0:20:18Because there may have been something you could do
0:20:19if you figured out the answer to that question,
0:20:21like, what precisely is it that is different
0:20:23about my ear shape that makes AirPods fall out
0:20:26and be uncomfortable after a period of time?
0:20:28Obviously, if it's something that's too tight,
0:20:30there's maybe not a lot you can do,
0:20:31but maybe there's an alternate position
0:20:33that you could put them in where you could add material,
0:20:34like add some, like, putty or whatever to the AirPod
0:20:38and put it in in a different arrangement
0:20:39so that it stays, like, I feel like,
0:20:41you're doing the sort of the blind technique of like,
0:20:44I can't see into my ears, I know they don't work,
0:20:46but I'm just gonna try acclimation,
0:20:48just gonna stick them in and just like,
0:20:49eventually I'm able to get used to it,
0:20:50or maybe it'll stretch out, or maybe, or whatever,
0:20:52but I feel like you could have taken a more scientific
0:20:56approach to this and had someone examine your AirPod fit
0:20:59and come up with a strategy for correcting for it.
0:21:03That didn't happen, I guess?
0:21:04- I think if I would have gone to, like,
0:21:07an ear doctor or an audiologist--
0:21:09- I met your wife.
0:21:10- Oh.
0:21:11- You're going to a doctor.
0:21:12- I was gonna say, like, I would think I would be laughed
0:21:14out of any doctor's office if I actually would have gone,
0:21:16I'd be like, can you help me work better with AirPods?
0:21:18- No, no, I just met another person who can see into your ear
0:21:21your wife is the obvious example.
0:21:22- Oh, you know, I didn't think about asking somebody else,
0:21:25but--
0:21:26- Don't you ask her to get your ear hairs?
0:21:27Maybe you're not at that stage of midlife crisis yet,
0:21:29but you will.
0:21:30- No, sorry.
0:21:30- You will be.
0:21:31- Good to know what I have to look forward to.
0:21:34So, no, so my approach was simply brute force,
0:21:37blindly poking, like, just try to get AirPods to fit
0:21:40in my ears by just enduring some discomfort every day
0:21:43for a while, which honestly is how I started liking seafood.
0:21:46(laughing)
0:21:48- Ringing endorsement of seafood.
0:21:49- Yeah, right.
0:21:50- The mucus of the sea, they call it.
0:21:52(laughing)
0:21:54- Oh my god.
0:21:55- All right, so anyway, so this process of just wearing them
0:22:01a little bit every day actually did improve things.
0:22:04It actually did kind of work, and it worked enough
0:22:07that I could now actually wear them, kind of,
0:22:11but it still hurt a little, and they still fell out
0:22:13regularly if I wasn't constantly pushing them back in
0:22:16like every minute or so out of a walk.
0:22:19Now, people have recommended various add-on things
0:22:24to AirPods, ever since I started complaining about this,
0:22:26like, you know, a year ago, whatever,
0:22:28but almost all add-on things to AirPods are like hooks
0:22:32to help hook them into your ears so they're supported better
0:22:35or they're like these big rubber tips that you can stick
0:22:39on them that protrude out a lot, and all these things
0:22:41have the same universal problem that make the AirPods
0:22:44no longer fit in the charging case.
0:22:47And to me, that's a fatal deal killer right there,
0:22:50because it seems ridiculous to actually use AirPods
0:22:54in real life if you have to constantly keep pulling off
0:22:58these attachments you have on them and put them back on
0:23:01every time you want to use them just to get them
0:23:02in and out of the case, 'cause like, you have to have
0:23:05the AirPods in the case all the time, because you have
0:23:08to put them into charge 'cause their battery life sucks,
0:23:11and if they aren't in the case, they're on.
0:23:14And so it's like they're ready to steal the output
0:23:17at any moment and interpret gestures in your pocket
0:23:18and everything, so you kind of have to have them
0:23:20in the case a lot, so I don't know why any product
0:23:23could possibly exist that can modify AirPods
0:23:26in such a way that they don't fit in the case anymore
0:23:28and have absolutely anybody want to use that.
0:23:32Fortunately, I did find one product, and I think there's
0:23:35a couple of clones, but they all seem to be the same thing,
0:23:38there's one product that does allow you to keep using
0:23:42the case, but is one of those silicone add-on wrapping pads
0:23:46around the AirPods.
0:23:48In typical Amazon style, it is called Fit in the Case
0:23:51AirPods EarPods Covers Compatible with AirPods 2
0:23:53and 1 Anti-Slip Silicone Soft Sports Covers Accessories
0:23:55Apple AirPods Earbud 2 Pairs White.
0:23:57- This product name is very close to being a valid
0:24:01shell command line, like I looked at it briefly,
0:24:03and it's like 2 ampersand greater than 1
0:24:06for input redirection, that's got the curly,
0:24:08like who puts curly braces?
0:24:09Fit in the case, it's not fits in the case,
0:24:12it's capital F fit in, capital T, the case,
0:24:16in curly braces.
0:24:18These have to be generated by a computer anyway, go on.
0:24:22- Yeah, so I found these, and they were like 11 bucks,
0:24:24and I figured I'll give it a shot.
0:24:26They actually do work, they really are thin enough
0:24:30to just barely have the AirPods still fit in the case.
0:24:34They don't actually change things that much,
0:24:38'cause they're very thin rubber, or silicone,
0:24:42and they're hilariously difficult to install too,
0:24:46'cause the first time I tried to install one,
0:24:48I tore it in half immediately.
0:24:51The good thing is they actually give you an extra one,
0:24:53so it happens a lot.
0:24:56So I'm like, oh, that was nice.
0:24:57- For a mere $11, you get an extra .001 cent of silicone.
0:25:02- Yeah, it doesn't matter, it was worth it.
0:25:05- Did you get colors?
0:25:07- No, I stuck with white.
0:25:09But other colors might be useful,
0:25:12if you have multiple AirPods in your house,
0:25:14you wanna distinguish them, or if you wanna be able
0:25:16to easily tell when you have these on the AirPods.
0:25:19So they don't do much, they make the AirPods
0:25:24just a little bit bigger, and just a little bit softer.
0:25:28And that is just enough to make the AirPods
0:25:32not fall out of my ears anymore.
0:25:34And it makes it a little bit more comfortable too.
0:25:37So now, I can actually use AirPods.
0:25:42I can actually carry them in my pocket, in the case,
0:25:45whenever I think I might want headphones,
0:25:47and I can actually use them acceptably.
0:25:50So I have actually pretty much solved my AirPods problem.
0:25:54I still wish they were more comfortable,
0:25:56but I think these are about as comfortable
0:25:58as they're going to get for me.
0:26:00I'm actually very satisfied with that.
0:26:02But, because they are still not amazingly comfortable,
0:26:06and I take a lot of long walks with headphones,
0:26:09so I also wanted to try the new Powerbeats Pro.
0:26:14This is a product that was harder to get
0:26:16than the original Apple Watch.
0:26:18Like the Powerbeats Pro officially launched
0:26:19in, I think, mid-May.
0:26:23But they were backordered like crazy,
0:26:25typical like Apple, you know, like a short supply launch.
0:26:28Like they were backordered for weeks,
0:26:30and I had to like keep checking the store,
0:26:32I'd refresh the page every morning,
0:26:33and like, you know, try to get in.
0:26:36I finally snagged a pair on the morning
0:26:39that I was about to leave for WWDC.
0:26:42I was literally going to the airport in like two hours,
0:26:45and I caught it in stock at my local store,
0:26:47and I went over there and picked them up.
0:26:49So, I've been using the Powerbeats Pro for,
0:26:52I don't know, a few weeks now, I guess, whatever it's been.
0:26:54I gotta say they're really interesting.
0:26:56So, these are the things that are basically AirPods,
0:26:59but for like more active workouts.
0:27:02So they are physically larger,
0:27:05and they have these, the big like hook around things
0:27:08like that hook on top of your ears.
0:27:10And then they have these little rubber things
0:27:11that like stick that into your ears from them.
0:27:14So they're kind of suspended on your ear,
0:27:16and they stick directly in instead of the AirPods,
0:27:18like they're all kind of like resting there in your ears.
0:27:21So, they're much better if you are doing
0:27:24like a super active kind of workout,
0:27:26where AirPods might fall out of your ears
0:27:28if you wore them, but these are better,
0:27:30and also these are I think more water resistant
0:27:32and everything, but otherwise, they're basically AirPod IIs.
0:27:35They have the H1 chip, they have the Hadeingus support.
0:27:39It takes a good few days, at least,
0:27:43to figure out how to get them into your ears,
0:27:46or how to get them back into the case
0:27:49without an embarrassing degree of fumbling around.
0:27:52- Oh my goodness.
0:27:53- 'Cause you gotta like, like to get them into your ear,
0:27:55you have to kind of like hook it over your ear,
0:27:56like twist it in, like you're like screwing it
0:27:59into your ear, like to get the hook right.
0:28:00It's really weird, and then getting it back into the case
0:28:03is similarly like incredibly awkward,
0:28:06because you have to figure out like how does this fit,
0:28:08and if you get the left and the right mixed up,
0:28:09you're totally screwed, like you'll never figure that out.
0:28:12It's hilarious.
0:28:14The controls on them are a mixed bag
0:28:18compared to AirPods or other Bluetooth headphones.
0:28:21Each of the two earpieces has a volume rocker switch,
0:28:25like volume up and down, and a center button
0:28:27that functions just like the old wired clickers did.
0:28:31One tap on the center button is play/pause,
0:28:33two taps is seek forward, three taps is seek back,
0:28:35just like the old remotes.
0:28:37And I think it's actually really nice
0:28:39to have actual buttons on these again.
0:28:41You know I'm a fan of buttons, obviously.
0:28:44So they're tactile, they are pretty reliable.
0:28:47The only problem I've had with the buttons
0:28:48is that the double and triple click seek gestures
0:28:50are actually still as tricky as they've always been.
0:28:53Like sometimes I double click too fast,
0:28:56and it treats it as a pause,
0:28:57so I have to like deliberately remember to wait a second
0:29:00between the two clicks so it really recognizes that it's two.
0:29:03And similarly getting three clicks recognized
0:29:05to be seek back is not easy,
0:29:08'cause it often interprets it as two,
0:29:09which is seek forward, which is the opposite of what you want
0:29:11so like it's tricky to do the seek gestures,
0:29:14but they do work, and those are things
0:29:16that AirPods just can't do at all
0:29:18unless you map the things differently and everything.
0:29:21With these you can't remap the controls on the Powerbeats,
0:29:24they're not customizable the way the AirPod
0:29:26double tap gestures are.
0:29:27The buttons all do the same thing, always all the time,
0:29:30and both earpieces buttons do the same thing.
0:29:33So you can't make like the right one skip forward,
0:29:35the left one skip back, or anything like that.
0:29:37You can use Siri of course, I found that to be
0:29:40the hey dingus support is just as reliable on this
0:29:43as it is on the AirPod twos.
0:29:44Other downside of the controls here is that
0:29:48the center button that does like the play, pause, and seek
0:29:52is directly behind the main driver
0:29:55and like the rubber tip protrusion.
0:29:57So when you push it, you are pushing the rubber tip
0:30:00into your ear more.
0:30:02And so you're kinda like squishing it into your ear
0:30:04with every push, and that's not pleasant.
0:30:06Although I will say, it is less unpleasant
0:30:09than tapping AirPods that are in your ear,
0:30:12which I find significantly unpleasant.
0:30:14(laughs)
0:30:15So the controls are, you know, they're a mixed bag,
0:30:17but overall I find them significantly better
0:30:19than the AirPods in that way.
0:30:20The case that they go in is comically large
0:30:26if you're accustomed to AirPods.
0:30:28It's far too large to be pocketable in pretty much anything
0:30:32except maybe the largest of like winter jackets.
0:30:36And because of the physical controls,
0:30:39you can't just keep them loose in your pocket
0:30:42when you're not wearing them,
0:30:43because the play, pause button gets accidentally pressed
0:30:46all the time in pockets.
0:30:48So if you have them with you, like with AirPods,
0:30:51if you have AirPods with you,
0:30:53and you wanna like go into a store
0:30:55and not be so rude as to be wearing headphones in a store,
0:30:57or somebody comes up to you and you wanna talk to them,
0:30:59or you arrive where you're going
0:31:01and you wanna take your headphones out,
0:31:02with AirPods, you probably have the case in your pocket.
0:31:04So you can just take out the AirPods
0:31:06and put them in the case.
0:31:07But with the Powerbeats Pro,
0:31:08the case is too big to be in your pocket,
0:31:10so you probably don't have it with you
0:31:12a lot of the time that you're using them.
0:31:14But because the button on them
0:31:15gets pushed in your pocket accidentally,
0:31:17you also can't put them in your pocket really well either.
0:31:21So you have to like just kinda hold them,
0:31:22or leave them in your ear
0:31:23and just hope nobody cares or whatever.
0:31:25So like that's a bit of an inconvenience.
0:31:27- Speaking of that, did you have with your AirPods yet
0:31:30the sort of typical, most awful social experience with them,
0:31:35which is you're wearing them like you said,
0:31:37and maybe someone comes up to you,
0:31:38you're walking your dog, you're taking a long walk,
0:31:40someone comes up to you and wants to say something,
0:31:41or wants to tell you that you dropped something.
0:31:44Or anyway, someone tries to talk to you,
0:31:46but you're listening to something.
0:31:47So they get your attention, you turn to them,
0:31:49and you immediately tap your AirPods with your finger
0:31:53to stop whatever you're listening to,
0:31:54so you can hear the person who just got your attention.
0:31:57And this gesture, I think I've described this
0:31:59on the show before, and this gesture is interpreted
0:32:01as you pointing to your headphones,
0:32:04and you're doing, "Uh, person, can't you see
0:32:07"that I'm listening to something on my headphones?"
0:32:08- Oh no.
0:32:09- Because they don't understand that tapping stops the sound.
0:32:12They think what you're doing is going,
0:32:14"Uh, hello, I have things in my ear."
0:32:17And so they think, "Oh, um," and they go, "Oh, sorry, sorry,"
0:32:20and they start to back away.
0:32:21Have you had that happen yet?
0:32:22- Oh no, I haven't yet.
0:32:24I mean, I think that's the biggest argument ever
0:32:26for just using the pull the AirPod out to pause feature.
0:32:30- Yes, pulling out is the right move, right?
0:32:34But if you get used to tapping, which I'm very used to,
0:32:36because that's what I do in my house or whatever,
0:32:39it's easier to tap because then you still have
0:32:41both hands free or whatever, but my experience is
0:32:44the entire rest of the world thinks that tapping
0:32:47is you being the rudest person ever,
0:32:49and I feel so bad when it happens,
0:32:50then I feel like I have to explain to them,
0:32:52"No, tapping them makes the sound."
0:32:55Oh god, forget it.
0:32:56This is the most awful thing ever.
0:32:58I feel like Apple should have special PSAs on television
0:33:02or streaming channels or whatever people watch on YouTube,
0:33:04I guess, or whatever you watch these days,
0:33:05is they just so you know, if someone taps their ear,
0:33:08they're not telling you to buzz off by pointing
0:33:13to their expensive headphone and telling you to go away.
0:33:15They're stopping the sound.
0:33:16- Oh man, I didn't think about that.
0:33:18- With Powerbeats, yanking them out might be more difficult
0:33:21'cause you have to unhook them from your ear or whatever,
0:33:23and I guess the button, you don't have to tap as much.
0:33:25That's my one question.
0:33:26- You just twist a little and pull it out.
0:33:27It's real fast.
0:33:28- That's my question about the button,
0:33:29but you already answered it.
0:33:30How hard do you have to hit that button?
0:33:32'Cause I don't, like a physical button,
0:33:33I wouldn't wanna actually press into my ear,
0:33:35but I guess the squishy rubber helps.
0:33:37- Well, and the reality is,
0:33:39you don't have to push it very hard at all.
0:33:40It pushes very easily, which is I think why
0:33:42it gets pushed so accidentally in my pocket.
0:33:44- And why you can't have it loose in your pockets now.
0:33:46- Yeah, like I frequently will accidentally push the button
0:33:48as I'm putting it in my ear or taking it out of my ear,
0:33:51because it's that easily pressed.
0:33:53- That case looks like it's the size of a baseball.
0:33:55That can't be how big it is, though.
0:33:57- I mean, it's not round, but it is--
0:33:58- It's like a baseball with a top and bottom cut off?
0:34:01- It's like if you made a pillow shape
0:34:05that has the approximate maximum diameter of a baseball.
0:34:08- Yeah, that's gigantic.
0:34:09- And if you look, it isn't that ridiculous
0:34:13when you see the way they're designed,
0:34:14because the shape of them is such that
0:34:17you kinda can't fit them in anything
0:34:19that was much smaller than that.
0:34:20- If they had made them so that the two weird shapes,
0:34:23if you offset them to each other,
0:34:25went into each other's negative space,
0:34:26you could've got it down smaller,
0:34:28but I guess that's tricky.
0:34:29- Yeah, maybe.
0:34:30And then, I mean, they're hard enough
0:34:31to get into this case as it is.
0:34:33- To get them into that, it'd be like
0:34:34one of those tavern puzzles.
0:34:35- Yeah, right.
0:34:36- You have to fit the things together at a particular range.
0:34:38- There's like two rings, and they look like
0:34:40they can't come off each other,
0:34:41but somehow you have to get this one through that one,
0:34:43and then it comes off, yeah, exactly.
0:34:45Anyway, so overall, though,
0:34:49where I think the Powerbeats Pro are substantially better,
0:34:53there's a couple of advantages.
0:34:54Number one, battery life is way better on them
0:34:58than AirPods, 'cause the batteries are just much bigger.
0:35:00Both the case and the batteries that are actually
0:35:03in the earpieces are substantially larger
0:35:05and longer lasting, so that's great
0:35:07if you ever run into battery issues with AirPods.
0:35:10And then, comfort is significantly upgraded.
0:35:14Because they have those ear hooks,
0:35:16the ear hooks are kind of suspending them
0:35:19in front of your ears, and so there is the part
0:35:21that goes into your ear, but that's not bearing
0:35:24the weight of the thing.
0:35:26Like with AirPods, the AirPods bear the weight
0:35:28of the whole AirPod on the bottom surface,
0:35:32whatever it is, of the inside of your ear.
0:35:34Whereas the Powerbeats are suspending them
0:35:36kind of nearby in there, and so a lot of that weight
0:35:39is falling on the top of the ear,
0:35:41which I think is less sensitive to it.
0:35:43'Cause it's like, if you wear glasses,
0:35:45it's going the same place, basically.
0:35:46- I was gonna say, the next old person thing
0:35:48you have to encounter is when you eventually get glasses.
0:35:50I find it very uncomfortable to have anything
0:35:53pressing against the stems of my glasses,
0:35:55so I imagine if I had these hooked over my ears,
0:35:57fine, all well and good, maybe,
0:35:59although I find the back of my ear more sensitive
0:36:01than the inside for the most part.
0:36:03But then if I also had to have a glasses stem there,
0:36:06I'd be like, well, does that go on the inside of the hook
0:36:09or on the outside, and in both things,
0:36:10I think it would result in something pressing
0:36:13against the side of my head behind my ear,
0:36:16and I hate that feeling.
0:36:17- Yeah, honestly, I don't know how well these
0:36:19would play with glasses for that reason.
0:36:20- You'll find out.
0:36:21- Yeah, yeah. (laughs)
0:36:24But yeah, so comfort-wise, the fact that they're not
0:36:28having all their weight on the bottom thing
0:36:30on the inside of my ear is a huge improvement.
0:36:32You only feel the fairly light pressure
0:36:36of those rubber tips, and they come with four different
0:36:39types of rubber tips in different sizes.
0:36:41They have the regular kind of bulbous marshmallow kind,
0:36:46and that comes in small, medium, and large,
0:36:48and all that's come with it, and they also have
0:36:50another one that's like, it's the kind that looks like
0:36:52two scoops of ice cream.
0:36:54It's like two half circles stacked.
0:36:55- Yeah, it's like the barbed one.
0:36:57- Yeah.
0:36:58- It goes in, but it doesn't come back out.
0:36:59- Yeah, right.
0:37:00- Wow.
0:37:01- I don't know what that one's for.
0:37:02I tried it, and it was too skinny,
0:37:04and it wouldn't seal for me.
0:37:06So I've been using the larges and the mediums,
0:37:08and they are great, and so because you have
0:37:12this customizability of those various tips,
0:37:15and they're being set there with less pressure
0:37:18to begin with because of the hook setup,
0:37:21comfort is way better.
0:37:22I can wear these things for a long time
0:37:24and feel no pain whatsoever.
0:37:27And the sound quality is also,
0:37:29so sound quality normally is pretty much exactly
0:37:31like the AirPod 2 or the AirPod 1.
0:37:33It's the same thing as the AirPods, really,
0:37:35which means that when you have a loose seal,
0:37:39you don't really get much bass or anything.
0:37:41It's fine for podcasts, but if you get a good seal
0:37:44with AirPods, if they really seal well into your ear
0:37:46or if you push them in a little bit,
0:37:48it actually gets pretty decent even for music.
0:37:50With Powerbeats, that's actually easier to achieve
0:37:53because it's much easier to get a good seal
0:37:56because of the way they're held there
0:37:57and because you have the different size tips to choose from.
0:38:00So I actually really like them.
0:38:03They are significantly less convenient than the AirPods
0:38:07in the sense that they are not really pocketable,
0:38:12and the case is so clumsy and everything,
0:38:15but the convenience is really nice.
0:38:16Now, that being said, they still are not suitable
0:38:20for use on a plane.
0:38:21Like, they still don't seal well enough
0:38:25to make them particularly audible
0:38:27in a very loud place like a plane.
0:38:30AirPods have the same problem, even slightly worse,
0:38:32and this is why I am so looking forward
0:38:35to if Apple ever makes the rumored over-ear headphones
0:38:39using the W1 or H1 style pairing and chip and everything.
0:38:44Even if they are terrible sounding
0:38:47and even if they have terrible noise cancellation,
0:38:50I will buy those because A,
0:38:52I don't use noise cancellation on planes.
0:38:54I just use whatever passive isolation my headphones have.
0:38:56I turn off the noise cancellation 'cause I don't like it.
0:38:59So the actual active noise cancellation,
0:39:01I couldn't care less.
0:39:02I just want big, comfortable over-ear headphones
0:39:04that passively isolate sound well,
0:39:06and to be able to switch those between my phone,
0:39:09my iPad, and my computer easily on a plane
0:39:11would completely negate any possible advantage
0:39:16that Sony or Bose could come up with with their headphones.
0:39:20So I'm very much looking forward to,
0:39:22if that rumor ends up being true
0:39:24and they end up coming out with over-ear headphones,
0:39:25man, I can't wait.
0:39:26Whatever we call them, like, head pods or air heads
0:39:29or whatever, like, I can't wait.
0:39:31- So how long can you reasonably have AirPods
0:39:36with these little sheaths in your ears?
0:39:39Like, are we talking half an hour, an hour, two hours?
0:39:43- I could, like, walk to the store and back
0:39:45or take, like, a short dog walk and be okay.
0:39:47I'd rather not.
0:39:48Like, I'd rather use the Powerbeats Pro or my AfterShocks
0:39:52or, you know, other, like, good portable headphones.
0:39:54I'd rather, like, I'd rather use those.
0:39:57But the AirPods are now usable.
0:40:02So, like, before, like, suppose, like,
0:40:05one thing that's happened a lot is, like,
0:40:06you know, I'll walk into town at the beach,
0:40:09like, with the family, and then I will wanna walk home
0:40:13or I'll be asked to walk somewhere else
0:40:14to go get something and the family will stay back.
0:40:17They'll go to a playground and I need to go to the store.
0:40:19So I'll, like, split off from the family.
0:40:21I'm, now I'm just alone and I'm bored.
0:40:23And, like, I have a long walk ahead of me.
0:40:25So it's like, if I have AirPods in my pocket,
0:40:27like, I didn't have to plan for that.
0:40:29I just can always carry them.
0:40:31And now I have them and they're great, right?
0:40:33Or, you know, something like,
0:40:35if I'm, like, going to the city for the day,
0:40:38I can just have them in my pocket and I might eat them
0:40:41and I might not and it's fine.
0:40:42I don't have to think about it.
0:40:43Like, I can't fit my AfterShokz in my pants pocket.
0:40:47I can fit my AirPods, though.
0:40:48Like, I can just have them there.
0:40:50It's just really nice.
0:40:52So it's, like, even though they are not
0:40:54my favorite headphones,
0:40:55they're not the most comfortable headphones on me,
0:40:57there are cases where, like, I'd rather have headphones
0:40:59than not have headphones,
0:41:00even if they're a little uncomfortable after a while.
0:41:02And it's way better than the way they were before.
0:41:04Like, I can actually use them
0:41:06and not really regret it now.
0:41:09So I'm pretty happy.
0:41:10- And then what about the PowerBeats?
0:41:13How long can those stay in before you get cranky
0:41:15or uncomfortable or whatever?
0:41:16- I would say they are as comfortable
0:41:18as the AfterShokz for me.
0:41:19So that would be, like, you know,
0:41:20I can easily take a two-hour walk with them and be,
0:41:23I might be a little hot at the end, but I'd be fine.
0:41:26- Since we're doing headphone reviews,
0:41:27I got new headphones recently, too.
0:41:29I used them for my flight to WWDC.
0:41:31I got the Sony, whatever the latest Sony
0:41:33noise-canceling thing.
0:41:34It's like--
0:41:35- The WH, whatever, Mark III.
0:41:36- Yeah.
0:41:38And I had been using Bose noise-canceling ones before.
0:41:41I do use the actual noise-canceling,
0:41:43so that's what I wanted out of them.
0:41:45And I just listen to podcasts,
0:41:46so I don't really care what the sound quality is like,
0:41:47as long as it's okay.
0:41:48And the reason I was interested in replacing the Bose at all
0:41:51is because I find the Bose ear cups
0:41:53to be a little bit small for me
0:41:55and a little bit uncomfortable on a six-hour flight.
0:41:57Like, they're okay in the beginning,
0:41:58but around an hour, three and a half,
0:41:59I'm like, "Well, these are kind of annoying my ears."
0:42:03So I got the Sonys,
0:42:03which look like they had bigger ear pads
0:42:06and ear cup things, and hopefully that would work better.
0:42:09And people had said that noise-canceling is as good
0:42:11as Bose or better or whatever.
0:42:12So anyway, I got these.
0:42:14They're fancier, they have all sorts of weird features
0:42:16where they can optimize their noise-canceling
0:42:18based on the atmospheric pressure
0:42:19and other BS they tell you they're doing.
0:42:21Who knows what they're actually doing.
0:42:22But anyway, they have their Bluetooth
0:42:25instead of having a wire like my Bose ones did.
0:42:27They have a swipey touchpad thing
0:42:30on the outside of the ear cup,
0:42:32which is terrible because it's like the Apple TV remote.
0:42:35Is this a horizontal swipe?
0:42:36Is it a vertical swipe?
0:42:37Did I get it right?
0:42:38Did I get my oriented correctly?
0:42:40Tapping them is the worst.
0:42:41Oh God, 'cause they have a tap control.
0:42:44As bad as it is to tap an AirPod,
0:42:47imagine tapping the rigid outside of a giant cup
0:42:51that's like sealed to the side of your head.
0:42:53It's like the loudest sound ever.
0:42:55I'm trying to tap gently, but it's very uncomfortable,
0:42:58not uncomfortable physically from like the pressure,
0:43:00but uncomfortable noise-wise, it is very bad.
0:43:04But setting that aside, I mean,
0:43:05you can always stop in a million other ways.
0:43:07You can use your phone to stop,
0:43:09or you could use one of those little Bluetooth
0:43:12controller things, you know, anyway.
0:43:14All that aside, the ear cups were more comfortable.
0:43:16What surprised me, and the thing that was annoying me
0:43:19by like hour two, was the band that goes
0:43:22over the top of my head was just like,
0:43:23it's like that feeling that Casey might be familiar with,
0:43:25and Marco maybe not as much for multiple reasons,
0:43:28when your hair hits the headliner in a car, right?
0:43:31(laughing)
0:43:33Do you know that feeling, Casey?
0:43:34- I actually, I know of what you speak,
0:43:36but I am not quite tall enough
0:43:38to have ever really had that problem.
0:43:40Despite my hair also adding an inch or two to my height.
0:43:43- If you're a taller person, or you have a car
0:43:46with a very low ceiling, and like your car has like a,
0:43:49you know, typical cheap car, you know,
0:43:52sort of fuzzy Muppet felt stuff on the roof,
0:43:55if your hair just hits that, you're like,
0:43:59well, so what, your hair is barely swiping
0:44:01a fuzzy Muppet felt, how can that,
0:44:04how do you even notice that, right?
0:44:05It's a strange thing, I'm sure there's some word for it,
0:44:08or someone did their PhD thesis on it,
0:44:10like that it sort of grips your hair a little bit,
0:44:13like it's not like it's like, you know,
0:44:15vinyl or something slippery, so the fuzzy Muppet felt
0:44:18grips your hair a little bit, and just through like
0:44:20the regular motion of your head,
0:44:21of just like driving or whatever,
0:44:24your head moves and the hair kind of stays
0:44:26where it's being gripped, and it just ends up like
0:44:28moving your hair follicles back and forth,
0:44:30and back and forth, and it becomes incredibly irritating,
0:44:32it's like a kind of, like, you know,
0:44:34water torture where they drop a drop of water
0:44:36on your forehead, it's like, who cares, drop of water,
0:44:38that doesn't hurt, but by 10,000 drop,
0:44:40it feels like a hammer falling and you're ready to go insane.
0:44:42Well, this felt like the same thing,
0:44:43where it's just like, the band was just,
0:44:46I don't know what it was doing, was it moving my hair around,
0:44:48was it like, it didn't feel like it had much more pressure
0:44:51on top of my head, it's so weird,
0:44:53like the headphones I'm wearing now
0:44:54that I wear every time on my podcast
0:44:56don't have the sensation at all,
0:44:58like they're touching the top of my head, right,
0:45:01but they don't feel like they're irritating the hair,
0:45:04they're, the Sony ones are padded up there,
0:45:06it's the same, feels like the same kind of slippery,
0:45:08fake vinyl-y material up there, I have no idea what it is,
0:45:12I'm thinking maybe it's because of like,
0:45:14the shape of the band, 'cause sometimes they make it like,
0:45:17it's supposed to look like a nice rigid U shape,
0:45:19but really to get it to fit over your head,
0:45:20you have to adjust the things,
0:45:21and now the nice rigid U becomes like a rigid section,
0:45:24and then this other section that's a different angle,
0:45:25then the rigid section on top,
0:45:26and then another little section,
0:45:27and then the final rigid section,
0:45:29and maybe that makes an arc
0:45:30that's actually pressing on my head more, I don't know,
0:45:33but that band was, God, it was making me,
0:45:35it was making me think about returning them,
0:45:36I kept adjusting it, like if I make it super loose,
0:45:39if I make it so the top doesn't even touch my head,
0:45:41but it doesn't quite work,
0:45:41because you do need something up there for support,
0:45:43because they can't just stick to your ears from the pressure,
0:45:46anyway, it was very, it didn't quite agree with my head,
0:45:50I'm trying to work out what I'm gonna do about that,
0:45:53but overall, the ear cup comfort was way better,
0:45:57and the final thing, the noise canceling,
0:45:58I think it was better than the Bose,
0:46:00but the noise canceling had this weird thing,
0:46:02during takeoff, when the engines are ramping up,
0:46:04the noise canceling decided to send out
0:46:06some of these terrible echolocation bursts of noise
0:46:10into my ears, which was like,
0:46:12just during takeoff,
0:46:16when the noise levels were changing a lot,
0:46:17like, is that a bug, is that a feature,
0:46:20whatever it is, it was uncomfortable,
0:46:22and it only happened during takeoff,
0:46:24but it happened during both takeoffs,
0:46:26so I don't know what the deal with that is,
0:46:28but that was kind of uncomfortable,
0:46:29but for the rest of the time, sound was fine,
0:46:32noise canceling was even better than the Bose,
0:46:34ear cup comfort was better,
0:46:35I have problems with the headband.
0:46:37- Wow, yeah, 'cause I use the previous version of that,
0:46:41the W-whatever-whatever Mark II,
0:46:45and there aren't many differences between the two,
0:46:47like, they're almost identical,
0:46:50and so I'm actually kind of surprised,
0:46:51'cause I haven't had those issues
0:46:53with the fit with the headband,
0:46:54I mean, maybe it's just I have a different hairstyle.
0:46:56- It's different head size,
0:46:57like, you should look at how much of the part
0:47:00that you expose when you adjust it,
0:47:01how much do you have exposed,
0:47:03maybe you have much more or much less than I do,
0:47:04and maybe the irritability of the hairs on top of my head
0:47:09are different than yours.
0:47:10- Maybe you need a thin silicone wrapper.
0:47:12(laughing)
0:47:13- I was thinking during the flight,
0:47:14I'm like, what could I put up there,
0:47:16if I put, you know, is it too slippery or not,
0:47:19like, if I put a piece of felt
0:47:20between the headphones in my head,
0:47:21or if I, like, coated the band at the top of my head,
0:47:24would I wanna make it slipperier or grippier,
0:47:26I don't, you know, do I need an extra piece of padding again?
0:47:29It's plenty padded up there,
0:47:30it's not like it's a hard piece of plastic against my head,
0:47:32it's mysterious, and the reason it reminded me
0:47:34of the car headliner thing is because it's the type of thing
0:47:36it's like, how can that even bother you?
0:47:38Like, it's like a pillow on top of your head
0:47:41with no weight on it, how is that bothering you,
0:47:43and yet, just the tiny motions,
0:47:45like you're inheriting the headliner
0:47:46over the course of many hours,
0:47:47eventually feels like the worst thing in the world,
0:47:49it's like a pebble in your shoe, another example,
0:47:51tiny little rock, you know, you're walking,
0:47:53and like, you're building up the size of this thing
0:47:54in your mind, so you finally take off your shoe
0:47:55and you look at it, and it's like the size
0:47:57of like a grain of sand, you know,
0:47:59how did that feel so big in my shoe?
0:48:01It's that type of situation.
0:48:02- Well, I am glad, Marco, that you can feasibly carry
0:48:06your AirPods with you always, and that sounds sarcastic,
0:48:09but actually that has, that changed my life,
0:48:12is a bit dramatic, but it has definitely improved my life
0:48:15to always have headphones in my little change pocket
0:48:18in my jeans, you know, pretty much all the time,
0:48:21and you'd be surprised how often, like you were saying,
0:48:24you know, you peel away from the family or something
0:48:26like that, for a perfectly legitimate reason,
0:48:28and then you think, well, I could catch up
0:48:29on podcasts right now, or I could listen to music right now,
0:48:32or whatever the case may be.
0:48:33- Exactly.
0:48:34- I cannot overstate how much I love my AirPods,
0:48:37and I genuinely think they're the best Apple product
0:48:40of the last five to 10 years by a comfortable margin,
0:48:43in my personal opinion.
0:48:44- Like the Mandelbrot set, it changed the world
0:48:46in a tiny way, I was so sick of catching
0:48:49my headphone cords on things, so sick of that,
0:48:52AirPods just rescued me from that life,
0:48:54rescued me from the life of untangling the cords,
0:48:56and it rescued me from the life of them,
0:48:57getting caught on things and being yanked out of my ears.
0:49:00Love it, can never go back.
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0:51:05(upbeat music)
0:51:07- We have heard many reports of a new 16-inch MacBook Pro
0:51:12that is supposedly coming,
0:51:15and there's a report at 9to5Mac from a couple of days ago
0:51:18saying, yeah, this is a thing,
0:51:20and there are a couple of specific tidbits,
0:51:23including a report of a 3072 by 1920 resolution.
0:51:28Marco, how excited are you?
0:51:30- I am not excited about that screen resolution.
0:51:32I'm very excited about everything else.
0:51:34Everything else about this,
0:51:36the rumors have been pretty strong on this one
0:51:40from multiple different sources
0:51:41over the last couple of months
0:51:43that it really does seem like,
0:51:45where there's smoke, there's fire thing,
0:51:48there is very likely to be a redesigned MacBook Pro
0:51:52for the first time since 2016,
0:51:54coming out sometime between this fall and next spring.
0:51:58The last redesign, the 2016 one,
0:52:00as you know, I'm not really a big fan.
0:52:02- Oh, really?
0:52:03- Yeah, not a fan of the touch bar,
0:52:04not a fan of the butterfly keyboard,
0:52:07and the most recent rumors seem to indicate
0:52:11that the touch bar is actually staying,
0:52:13but we might be getting a hardware escape key next to it.
0:52:17More importantly, we might be getting a new keyboard
0:52:21that uses scissor switches with one millimeter of travel,
0:52:24which is about twice the travel of the butterfly keyboard.
0:52:27Overall, very similar in many ways
0:52:29to the most recent desktop Magic keyboards
0:52:32that Apple has shipped,
0:52:33which have been widely recognized
0:52:35as pretty decent keyboards, pretty agreeable.
0:52:37Not everyone totally loves them,
0:52:40but most people are pretty big fans.
0:52:41No one really hates them, like they're fine,
0:52:44and that's what you need a laptop keyboard to be,
0:52:45and that's what we haven't had for the last few years.
0:52:48Even if they've solved the reliability problems,
0:52:50which I think is still too early to say,
0:52:52they still failed to make a keyboard last time
0:52:55that everyone was okay with.
0:52:57Now they have a chance to do that again,
0:52:58and the rumors all suggest
0:53:00that they are probably doing that.
0:53:02Additionally, as I mentioned I think last week,
0:53:05this will be the first laptop
0:53:06that has most likely been designed
0:53:09after the formation of the Pro Workflows team.
0:53:13And the Pro Workflows team has produced
0:53:15such wonderful things as maybe the iMac Pro,
0:53:19I'm not sure if they were there late enough
0:53:21or early enough for that,
0:53:22but they were definitely there to influence things
0:53:24like the new Mac Mini and the new Mac Pro.
0:53:27And those are both really, really good products
0:53:29that did things and added things and kept things
0:53:33that we never would have guessed
0:53:36the 2016 era Apple would have done.
0:53:39Things that customers wanted and needed,
0:53:41but Apple back then was in the mood
0:53:43of taking a lot of things away
0:53:46and pushing things really aggressively, quote, forward,
0:53:50in ways that we didn't all agree were the way forward.
0:53:53But this is the first thing in a new series,
0:53:58and I cannot wait to see what it is.
0:54:00Good or bad, I at least just want to see movement.
0:54:03And I think I have faith,
0:54:05based on how they've done the last few new releases
0:54:07like this, it's probably gonna be really good.
0:54:10Now about that screen resolution.
0:54:12The one thing that's bugged me
0:54:14about the Retina MacBook Pro screens,
0:54:17ever since their introduction in 2012,
0:54:20is that in the last few models of the pre-Retina age,
0:54:24Apple increased the point density of the screens.
0:54:29You could see this in the original MacBook Air,
0:54:32which was like, I think, 1366 by 768, something like that,
0:54:36the 13 inch version.
0:54:38And then right before they went Retina,
0:54:41the 15 inch could be had with a 1680 by 1050 screen,
0:54:44and the 17 inch could be had with a 1920, I think?
0:54:47Yeah, a 1920 by 1200 screen.
0:54:50The resolution, the horizontal resolution of the 15 inch
0:54:53was 1680 points across.
0:54:55When they went Retina in 2012,
0:54:59the effective, the number of pixels went up
0:55:01'cause it went Retina, but the effective point width
0:55:05went down from 1680 back down to 1440,
0:55:08where it was a few years earlier
0:55:11in the regular non-Retina lineup.
0:55:14And as the rest of the lineup went Retina,
0:55:17that same step back happened.
0:55:20It happened on the 13 inch,
0:55:22it eventually happened even to the Air
0:55:24when that went Retina.
0:55:26That didn't happen on the desktops, mind you.
0:55:27When the iMac 5K came out, and later the iMac 4K,
0:55:30that same step back did not happen.
0:55:33They went exactly double the number of points
0:55:35they were pre-Retina.
0:55:37So we know that it's possible not to do that on the desktop,
0:55:40and they didn't.
0:55:41On the laptops, they made that step backwards.
0:55:44At the time, like, you know, 2012 was three years before,
0:55:48or two years before it ever came to the desktop,
0:55:50and two and a half years before it came to the desktop.
0:55:54And so it kind of made sense back then,
0:55:56like, well, it's still really new technology,
0:55:58maybe there are concerns about economics
0:56:00of the screen panels, or quality of the colors,
0:56:03or battery concerns of having more
0:56:05pixels to drive or whatever else.
0:56:06- Yeah, battery concerns is what Apple cited, by the way.
0:56:09That when we asked that question
0:56:10at the introduction of the Retina,
0:56:11it was like, well, there's just so many more transistors,
0:56:13battery is why we did this,
0:56:14and everyone basically accepted it.
0:56:15- Right, and they also, they introduced these scaling modes
0:56:18at the same time, where you could,
0:56:21for the first time ever in their laptops,
0:56:23you could simulate higher resolutions
0:56:25than what the panel actually supported,
0:56:27using these new GPU accelerated scaling modes
0:56:29that it would basically render the image
0:56:32to a, I think like a 4X or 3X buffer,
0:56:36like it would render it to a higher buffer,
0:56:38and then scale it back to the physical pixels of the screen.
0:56:40It's the same technique that was used later
0:56:42in the iPhone 6 Plus, and the 6, 7, and 8 Plus
0:56:46all used it until we finally got true 3X
0:56:48in the iPhone 10 series.
0:56:49But anyway, they did this pixel scaling mode,
0:56:52where the native pixel resolution for the 15 inch
0:56:57was indeed stepped back to the 1440 points at 2X density,
0:57:02but you could set it to the way the old ones used to look
0:57:05at 6 and 8, and it would just kind of like
0:57:08blur the pixels to look to fit the panels,
0:57:11to make it look kind of like that.
0:57:13But it never looked as good as when you were running it
0:57:16in the true native 2X format.
0:57:19Like it never, they never had it exactly as sharp
0:57:24and as nice looking as when you were running it at 1440
0:57:27at the native 2X scale.
0:57:28When the 2016 era models came out,
0:57:31starting with actually the 2015 MacBook One,
0:57:34like with the MacBook One, and then following into 2016,
0:57:38the Touch Bar generation of MacBook Pros,
0:57:40and later the MacBook Air, they actually set
0:57:43the one step up scaling mode as the default
0:57:47screen resolution the way they shipped.
0:57:50So by default, since 2016, and for every 12 inch MacBook,
0:57:55they have shipped in a mode where the screen
0:57:56is a little bit blurry and not as good as it could be.
0:58:00Because they just haven't put enough pixels into it
0:58:03to make it have true 2X retina clarity
0:58:08without using blurry scaling modes
0:58:10at the default resolutions they've been shipping,
0:58:12which to me is a crime.
0:58:15On the 12 inch, you can kind of forgive it
0:58:17because regardless of what they charge for it,
0:58:19that's a budget machine, like it has budget parts,
0:58:22it's a low end machine in lots of ways.
0:58:25So it kind of makes sense on that, it kind of makes sense
0:58:27on the Air, 'cause the Air is also there
0:58:28to hit a low price point.
0:58:30But on the MacBook Pro, the 13 inch and 15 inch Pro,
0:58:34I don't think we need to be doing that anymore.
0:58:36And the desktops prove that we don't have to do it.
0:58:39Like the 5K iMac and later the 4K iMac proved,
0:58:42it isn't just like, oh we won't notice,
0:58:44we can get away with it, or nobody wants it.
0:58:46No, we want it, and we do notice, they didn't do
0:58:50the scaling mode by default on the desktops,
0:58:52because it's better not to.
0:58:54So on the laptops, we're sitting here,
0:58:56we're enduring this 2012 era screen density all this time.
0:59:00In the next generation, surely it's time now.
0:59:04Surely now, whatever factors are at play,
0:59:08we can afford to step up the pixels by whatever it be,
0:59:12like 20% in each dimension.
0:59:14It's not like we're doubling it again,
0:59:16like it's adding like 20% in each dimension
0:59:18or something like that.
0:59:19Surely we can do that now, and the cost is able
0:59:24to be spent on that now, in both battery and economics
0:59:26of the panels, surely.
0:59:28The only thing I don't like about this new rumor
0:59:31is that it quotes the screen resolution
0:59:34in a way that almost certainly suggests
0:59:36that they haven't done this, that they're sticking
0:59:39with the same thing of just scaling all the time by default,
0:59:42and just accepting that the panel's just gonna be blurry.
0:59:45And I'm not okay with that.
0:59:47After all this time, I mean yeah,
0:59:50I'm gonna buy this thing anyway,
0:59:51'cause I just can't wait to get a new keyboard.
0:59:53But that was like one little nitpick that I've had
0:59:58since 2012 that I thought they would've solved by now.
1:00:01And they put so much effort and marketing and promotion
1:00:04into having these really awesome screens
1:00:07in these other ways, like in color and contrast
1:00:10and HDR and color profiles and wide gamut and all that.
1:00:14They do all this amazing stuff with the screen,
1:00:17but now they're just a little bit blurry all the time
1:00:19because we can't have all the pixels
1:00:20that they actually are kind of BSE claiming that they have
1:00:24by having it be the default mode.
1:00:26Like that's not okay.
1:00:28And they can do better than that,
1:00:29and they should do better than that.
1:00:31- So I think the iMac is not,
1:00:33I mean the iMac is a different scenario
1:00:35because you don't have battery power
1:00:37and you have more depth.
1:00:38So I'm not sure, if you were to ask Apple,
1:00:41I bet their answer would still be the same
1:00:42as it was in 2013, which is in a very, very thin screen
1:00:46like this with battery constraints,
1:00:48if we put all those transistors behind there
1:00:50for the actual 2X scaling of the resolution you want,
1:00:54it would hurt us in battery life.
1:00:55And of course our answer would be
1:00:56make the damn thing one millimeter thicker and be quiet,
1:00:59but you know Apple.
1:01:01So when I saw this rumor, I was at least glad
1:01:05that it wasn't going to be 1440 by 900 points, right?
1:01:09- Just larger?
1:01:10- Yeah, it is a larger physical screen
1:01:13and it has more pixels than the smaller one,
1:01:16which made me hope that if I was ever forced
1:01:18to use one of these for work,
1:01:19which is the only way I would probably ever have
1:01:20one of these, that I would be able to put it at native 2X
1:01:25and not feel like I don't have enough room.
1:01:27Obviously this at 2X would not be the same
1:01:31as the resolution you wanted, you know,
1:01:331680 by 1050 points, right?
1:01:36It's not quite the same,
1:01:38but it's better than the current 15 inch
1:01:40if you put it at native 2X.
1:01:42And so I'm hoping that if I go into the store
1:01:45and set this one to native 2X and I look at it
1:01:47and go like, nah, I think I can live with that.
1:01:49It's reasonable, especially as I get older,
1:01:51like the fact that everything would be slightly larger
1:01:54at that 2X resolution, but there would be a more screen
1:01:56that maybe it would be worthwhile.
1:01:58But I agree, I think there,
1:02:00the fact that there hasn't been an Apple laptop
1:02:04with a native point, you know,
1:02:07when the LCD is running at native res,
1:02:09has a point resolution that matches the previous 15 inch,
1:02:12let alone the 17 inch, 17 inch, by the way,
1:02:13was 1920 by 1200 native pixels, right?
1:02:17There hasn't been a display with that number of points,
1:02:20point dimensions at native res since 2013.
1:02:25And that's not a good streak.
1:02:27And I, you know, power is honestly the only thing
1:02:30I can think of because we know they can make a display
1:02:32like this and I imagine they can make it just as thin.
1:02:35It's just a question of how much more battery power
1:02:37we're taking, people would pay.
1:02:38I mean, maybe does this mean they need to bring back
1:02:40the 17 inch, right?
1:02:41And then make a, maybe they'll feel okay
1:02:43about making that one thicker,
1:02:44or maybe they won't have to make it thicker
1:02:46because it'll have more, you know,
1:02:47just have more surface area to put battery in.
1:02:50I don't know, but I think it's another gap in their lineup
1:02:53and hopefully they'll fill it somehow.
1:02:56- Well, and it just, it seems too like this could be
1:02:58a nice differentiator for the pro line.
1:03:01Like, and you would think the pro workflow team
1:03:04would bring this up at some point.
1:03:07Like, yeah, you know what the fact is,
1:03:08like these screens being scaled does kind of suck.
1:03:10Also, like, the scaling is not free.
1:03:13The scaling has a computational cost on the GPU to achieve.
1:03:17And so, like, at some point, surely, like,
1:03:21the cost of driving the more pixels has to, like,
1:03:24you know, outweigh that, right?
1:03:25I don't know, it's just--
1:03:26- Nah, it's much cheaper to do that computation
1:03:28in some dedicated hardware on the GPU
1:03:30and some little dinky thing than to actually
1:03:34do the transition in those spaces.
1:03:35I have to imagine that that's the power thing.
1:03:37And honestly, I think that's, their explanation
1:03:41would be both the power and also the idea that,
1:03:45yeah, it's blurrier, but like, most people can't tell,
1:03:48just like no one could tell that the six plus
1:03:50was not at native res, just because everything was so small.
1:03:53And I imagine that the number of people
1:03:55who can tell the difference between the native 2x
1:03:58and the one step down from it is also probably very small
1:04:01and will eventually not include you
1:04:03as your eyes get worse with age.
1:04:05So I can kind of see where they're coming from,
1:04:07but to your other point, it's like,
1:04:09well, then why not do that on everything?
1:04:11Why not make the $7000 display non-native?
1:04:13Why not make the iMac 5K non-native?
1:04:15It's like, you don't because it is actually better this way.
1:04:17So there should be one, how about,
1:04:19there should be one model that Apple sells
1:04:22that, again, can match the point density
1:04:26at native res of the old 15 inch.
1:04:28- Right. (laughs)
1:04:29- We're not even saying there has to be one model
1:04:31that matches the 17.
1:04:32- If there's any model that should do it,
1:04:34it should be this one.
1:04:36So I hope this rumor is wrong.
1:04:39I don't have, I mean, honestly, my confidence isn't high
1:04:42because usually when Ming-Chi Kuo quotes
1:04:44a screen resolution, it's usually correct.
1:04:47So that's, I'm not, I don't have high hopes here,
1:04:50but I really am hoping that this rumor's wrong
1:04:53and that they actually have increased it
1:04:54to be what it should be and kind of what they're selling.
1:04:57Like, the fact that it's the default mode
1:05:01surely suggests to people that this is what the screen
1:05:04is actually pulling off, and the fact that it's not,
1:05:06I find BSE, and I'm not comfortable with them selling it
1:05:11in scaling mode by default and saying,
1:05:12here, look at how great the screen is,
1:05:14and it's like they're intentionally hobbling it
1:05:16just to achieve a faked increase in screen real estate,
1:05:22really, and I want it to be real.
1:05:24- I think they might sell this one at native 2X, though,
1:05:27because it's like, it's 1536 points across,
1:05:30which is not 1680, but maybe they'll actually sell it,
1:05:34maybe the default will be 2X.
1:05:35I mean, maybe, but that would make it look,
1:05:38it would make it look significantly different
1:05:40and less advanced than all the ones next to it
1:05:44in the Apple store.
1:05:45- Well, it would make the screen look clearer,
1:05:46and it would make everything on it look bigger,
1:05:48and clearer and bigger is actually a selling point
1:05:50for a lot of customers when it comes
1:05:52to displays on laptops.
1:05:53- That's true, although most of those customers
1:05:55probably aren't buying the highest-ed model in the store.
1:05:57- I don't know, I mean, yeah, I don't wanna say.
1:06:00Like, scaling mode's like, I don't think Apple
1:06:03has these stats, but I wonder how many people
1:06:06run their phones at like the bigger mode,
1:06:08you know, during setup when it asks you,
1:06:09do you want this to be bigger?
1:06:11- Yeah, display zoom.
1:06:12- Like, if you've ever watched anyone go through
1:06:14that process with no input from you
1:06:16and just like letting them pick what they want,
1:06:18they look at the two, and as far as they're concerned,
1:06:20they want the one where the pictures are bigger.
1:06:23Like, the nuances of what that means,
1:06:26like, here's one showing a bunch of apps,
1:06:28and here's one showing a bunch of apps,
1:06:29but each app is bigger.
1:06:29It's like, oh, I want the one where they're bigger.
1:06:31That is their only concern.
1:06:33The nuances of nativeness don't factor into it,
1:06:36nor does the idea that if they're bigger
1:06:37that you can see fewer of them.
1:06:39Like, it's just an obvious choice.
1:06:40Oh, bigger, why would anyone pick the smaller one?
1:06:43And so it's a different set of values
1:06:46that leads to those decisions.
1:06:47So I really do wonder if native 2X
1:06:49where everything's slightly bigger
1:06:51would actually be seen as a benefit of the 16 inch.
1:06:53I mean, you know, the screen itself is bigger,
1:06:56and it doesn't make sense that the things
1:06:58on the screen are also bigger,
1:06:59and also it seems a little bit sharper for some reason.
1:07:02So maybe that's the selling point.
1:07:05- Yeah, I'm interested to see what this laptop brings.
1:07:07Like I said earlier, I am casually in the market
1:07:11for a MacBook Adorable replacement,
1:07:13and to go all the way to a 16 inch
1:07:15is probably not gonna be the answer,
1:07:17but I at least wanna see what this brings,
1:07:20and if it's the sort of thing where this is the Halo car
1:07:23of the MacBook Pro family,
1:07:25and has something that I'm really interested in,
1:07:28say, a new keyboard, which I'm not as, you know,
1:07:30angry about as Marco is,
1:07:33but still a more reliable keyboard sounds good to me.
1:07:36You know, if that arrives in the 16 in the fall,
1:07:38then maybe I would wait until the spring to get like,
1:07:40you know, what would hopefully be a new Adorable
1:07:42or maybe even a 13 inch MacBook Pro at that point
1:07:45that has, you know, the same keyboard
1:07:46and a similar setup.
1:07:47I don't know.
1:07:48I'm curious to see this for sure though,
1:07:50and like you had said, Marco,
1:07:51this is something new, and new is always exciting.
1:07:53So I'm very curious to see it.
1:07:55- Speaking of Halo car,
1:07:58and given our recent Mac Pro musings,
1:08:01as this opens, remembering that the non-retina 15 inch
1:08:05that Marco was talking about,
1:08:07that higher point, higher resolution screen was an option.
1:08:12It wasn't the default screen.
1:08:14So Apple could offer this laptop with this screen
1:08:17at this exact resolution,
1:08:19and then have as an option, an upgrade option,
1:08:21a native 2X display with a higher point density,
1:08:25and that upgrade option could be $7,000.
1:08:27- And there you go.
1:08:28There's your Halo car laptop.
1:08:30- Yeah, the funny thing, like the option back then,
1:08:32two things about those that are interesting,
1:08:33the option back then was actually very inexpensive.
1:08:35I think it was like $150.
1:08:37It was very inexpensive to go from the 1440 screen
1:08:40to the 1680 screen, and more interestingly,
1:08:42the 1680 screen came in two finishes, matte or glossy.
1:08:46- And the finishes weren't an extra cost.
1:08:48The matte one didn't cost an extra $1,000?
1:08:50Hmm, weird.
1:08:51- Mm-hmm, and the total upgrade cost was like $150 or $200.
1:08:54It was in that ballpark.
1:08:56And yeah, but man, if they offered this
1:08:59with a higher resolution screen and a matte option,
1:09:04I mean, $7,000 would be excessive,
1:09:06but what do you think would actually be
1:09:10a reasonable price for that
1:09:11that Apple would actually also charge?
1:09:13So both reasonable and also realistic for Apple these days?
1:09:17I think $400 extra?
1:09:19- Yeah, $500 is what I was gonna say.
1:09:22- Yeah, same, I was gonna say $500.
1:09:23- And I'm just saying for the resolution,
1:09:25like for the nano texture, I would say five and up.
1:09:28(laughing)
1:09:29Maybe 600.
1:09:31- Yeah, I don't know about the nano texture.
1:09:32I feel like the nano texture is all about
1:09:35people in a particular environment
1:09:36where they really need to see what it looks like
1:09:38and they want to really take down,
1:09:40I mean, I guess it's more important on a laptop
1:09:42than a desktop, but I feel like the things
1:09:44that motivated the weird nano texture
1:09:45for the Mac Pro display or the XDR or whatever,
1:09:49maybe aren't at play because those same people would say,
1:09:53well, I don't care what you do with your laptop,
1:09:54it's not like I'm gonna use one of those
1:09:55to do my work on my feature film or whatever
1:09:58because I'll be in the studio
1:10:00and I'll be staring at a much larger screen,
1:10:01but who knows?
1:10:02Well, now that they have the nano technology,
1:10:05the nano texture technology in their toolbox,
1:10:10maybe they'll just apply it to everything
1:10:11and add astronomical markup to all their products.
1:10:14(laughing)
1:10:16- On one hand, you need it for the laptop more than ever
1:10:19because you are in environments
1:10:21with varied lighting with laptops.
1:10:23On the other hand, I would imagine the nano texture
1:10:26is gonna have a problem with cleaning and fingerprints.
1:10:30- If you're not supposed to touch it.
1:10:31Now, I don't know the answer to that.
1:10:32Do any of you know, I didn't actually ask the people
1:10:35in the room of like, I had heard lots of people saying,
1:10:37oh, you're really, really not supposed
1:10:39to touch the nano texture, but then I can't tell
1:10:41if that's just saying like, since it costs $1,000,
1:10:44haha, keep people's grubby fingers away
1:10:45from your $1,000 finish, or if there's an actual issue
1:10:48in that if you get grease in it, cleaning it is difficult
1:10:51because you're not supposed to like rub it or something.
1:10:53I have no idea what's the truth there.
1:10:55- It actually, they provide a cleaning cloth in the box,
1:10:59and it isn't $1,000.
1:11:01They don't provide the stand.
1:11:03- But everything comes with a cleaning cloth.
1:11:04My Thunderbolt display came with a cleaning cloth.
1:11:06Right, that's fine.
1:11:07I just wanna know like, if someone does touch your screen,
1:11:11is it any harder to clean than just a regular glass screen?
1:11:15- Well, you have to hold it at a 70 degree angle.
1:11:17(laughing)
1:11:18- Speaking of touching laptop screens,
1:11:20so I have the Air in the house
1:11:22that is technically the homework laptop.
1:11:23I think it's called like homework laptop or something.
1:11:25So the kids use it.
1:11:26For the most part, I'm pretty sure none of them
1:11:30are touching the screen like, you know,
1:11:32accidentally or habitually, like,
1:11:35because they think it's a touchscreen,
1:11:36'cause they're not really habituated
1:11:38to use touchscreen laptops.
1:11:40Granted, they use their iPads all the time,
1:11:42but I don't think they're actually touching it like,
1:11:43oh, I thought I get it the okay button, right?
1:11:46But the entire frame of the display
1:11:50is covered in fingerprints.
1:11:52It looks worse than any of their iPads,
1:11:54because they like, I don't know, they have grubby hands.
1:11:58And for some reason, like, well, I know my daughter
1:12:01picks up the laptop by the screen,
1:12:03which is why she destroyed.
1:12:04She picks up the screen all the time.
1:12:06And that's how she destroyed the 2011 laptop.
1:12:08She destroyed the 2011 laptop by dropping it,
1:12:11but also by repeatedly picking it up by the screen.
1:12:13So the hinge became incredibly loose,
1:12:16but then the dropping is what eventually cracked the screen.
1:12:18But yeah, like, a huge amount of grease.
1:12:21And I think about cleaning it sometimes,
1:12:22I'm like, why bother?
1:12:23Like, in a week, it's gonna look like that again.
1:12:24But now it's getting to the point where I'm like,
1:12:26have I waited too long?
1:12:27Has this screen gone over?
1:12:28Like, is it now impossible to remove the finger grease
1:12:31that has accumulated on the screen?
1:12:32Like, if I were to try to clean it,
1:12:34would I be removing, like, whatever sort of anti-glare
1:12:37finishes on the screen?
1:12:41I think that the grease is now a structural element
1:12:43of the screen, and I can never remove it.
1:12:47- Oh, God. - Oh, my word.
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1:14:47- Alrighty, Jack Fried, Friedeye, I hope I have that right.
1:14:51Do you think Apple would or could re-implement
1:14:53target display mode on the iMac maybe this fall
1:14:55in order to make a lower end display available
1:14:57for the Mac Pro?
1:14:59Would that be a solution for you?
1:15:01I mean, I guess anything is possible,
1:15:04but I don't personally see them coming back
1:15:07to target display mode possibly ever on an iMac.
1:15:11- Yeah, I don't think they would either.
1:15:13For a number of reasons.
1:15:14So this was kind of a big deal because when
1:15:17the 27 inch iMac first came up, non-retina,
1:15:20the regular 27 inch iMac, this was at the time
1:15:22when there were no 27 inch 2560 by 1440
1:15:27or 1680 monitors on the market.
1:15:30The only ones you can get that had the 2560 pixels across
1:15:33were the 30 inch class monitors at Apple
1:15:35and a few other companies like HP sold.
1:15:37The 27 inch iMac had that same resolution
1:15:40in a smaller panel.
1:15:42Actually, it lopped at the bottom a little bit.
1:15:43It went to 1690 instead of 1610 or whatever it is.
1:15:46But anyway, so it was 2560 across by 1440
1:15:50and it was an awesome panel.
1:15:51It was way brighter, better contrast
1:15:53and whatever else than the 30 inch.
1:15:55And when it came out, the iMac with this panel in it
1:15:59cost less than the 30 inch monitor did alone.
1:16:03And it included this with a quote free computer
1:16:05behind it basically.
1:16:07So there was actually strong demand for people
1:16:11who wanted this kind of monitor
1:16:12and all these amazing specs on it
1:16:14and this was before Apple sold it separately
1:16:16as what later became the Thunderbolt display.
1:16:18They had this target display mode
1:16:21where you could, I think, hold down a certain key combination
1:16:24or something and you could plug a computer into the iMac
1:16:28and just use the iMac screen as that computer's monitor.
1:16:31So because there was this kind of demand for this,
1:16:33I know I heard a few people who tried it,
1:16:36but it wasn't actually very good
1:16:38because first of all, it was kind of wasteful conceptually
1:16:43in the sense that you were buying a computer
1:16:45to not use the computer part of it ever really
1:16:48and to plug some other computer into it.
1:16:50If you wanted to use both, like to have the iMac
1:16:52and maybe have a laptop,
1:16:54you couldn't leave the iMac booted in this mode.
1:16:56You'd have to reboot it into target display mode, I think.
1:16:59So that was kind of weird.
1:17:01And also, if the computer part of it broke
1:17:04or somehow went wrong,
1:17:06target display mode wouldn't work either.
1:17:08And so you kind of had to rely on that computer
1:17:10working forever.
1:17:12And this was also before SSDs.
1:17:13There was like a spinning hard drive back there
1:17:15just spinning around doing nothing.
1:17:17It was kind of a crappy solution.
1:17:19It wasn't a great way to get a 27-inch display.
1:17:22And it lasted until Retina came.
1:17:24And when Retina came, it went away.
1:17:26And there were lots of good reasons for that.
1:17:29At the time that the 5K Retina iMac launched in 2014,
1:17:32there was no cable standard
1:17:34that could drive at a full resolution.
1:17:36Like Thunderbolt 2, I don't think could do it.
1:17:37These days, a Thunderbolt 3 cable could do it.
1:17:40So theoretically, the modern iMacs
1:17:43that have Thunderbolt 3 ports
1:17:45could theoretically offer this.
1:17:47But I think the hardware wiring and support for it
1:17:52would be non-trivial.
1:17:55And I think just not a lot of people
1:17:56actually ended up using it
1:17:57because it was so clunky to actually use in practice.
1:18:00So while they maybe could technically do it,
1:18:04not only do I not think that they will,
1:18:06but I don't think they should.
1:18:08I think if they want to address the market
1:18:11that I hope they want to address
1:18:13of people who want an Apple-made external 5K display
1:18:18that is not $7,000, I hope they do address that market.
1:18:23And if they're going to address that market at all,
1:18:26they should do it properly
1:18:27by actually having a standalone 5K monitor
1:18:30that is like the iMac without any computer attached to it.
1:18:33Just do that again,
1:18:34the same way they did in the pre-retina days
1:18:36with the Cinema Display and the Thunderbolt display.
1:18:39Just do the same thing again
1:18:40because they're really good at that and no one else is.
1:18:43And there's a huge hole in the market.
1:18:45Target Display Mode is a hack that never worked very well
1:18:49and shouldn't be used to solve this problem.
1:18:51- Yeah, the amount of money they would spend
1:18:54getting Target Display Mode to work,
1:18:55sort of doing the plumbing to get a Thunderbolt,
1:18:59one of their Thunderbolt ports
1:19:00or all of their Thunderbolt ports
1:19:02to be able to pipe directly into the display controller
1:19:04and all the other internal stuff they have in there
1:19:07would be weird and expensive and so much more difficult
1:19:10than just making a display.
1:19:11And honestly, and we joked about this at the WDC show,
1:19:14if they just charge the same price
1:19:16as the one that has the computer inside it,
1:19:18but this one doesn't have a computer,
1:19:19you would still pay it.
1:19:20It would be so high margin and people will be happy to pay it
1:19:23because you'd have the anchoring of the 7G XDR
1:19:26making it seem like a bargain.
1:19:27Obviously, you price it like the low-end iMac
1:19:28and not like the top-end iMac Pro,
1:19:30but I think people would pay a surprising amount.
1:19:32Probably up to, honestly, probably up to half the price,
1:19:35so you could probably charge $3,000 for this thing
1:19:39and it would be a rip-off,
1:19:40but people will be like, well, here are my choices.
1:19:43Nothing or a $3,000 monitor or a $7,000 monitor
1:19:48that has HDR and higher resolution.
1:19:51And the 3,001 starts to look reasonable.
1:19:53Or I can find an old LG or I can buy some weird brand
1:19:57that I've never heard of
1:19:58that supposedly has a 5K display.
1:20:01The choices are slim, so if Apple wants to make money,
1:20:05now's the time to do it,
1:20:06assuming there will be some future wave
1:20:08of people making 5K displays,
1:20:10which maybe will never come
1:20:11and maybe that's why Apple feels like they don't have to do it
1:20:12but if I was given the choice
1:20:14between you can use a 5K iMac,
1:20:17some new 5K iMac in target display mode,
1:20:20or for the exact same price, you can have a 5K monitor,
1:20:23I would take the monitor because,
1:20:25the reason Marco said,
1:20:26I don't have to worry about a whole computer being back there
1:20:29and more things that can break,
1:20:30even if the price was the same,
1:20:31it's like, well, wouldn't you want the free computer
1:20:33and you can also use it as a computer?
1:20:35I'm not gonna use it as a computer,
1:20:36it's gonna be attached to a desktop.
1:20:38It's not like every once in a while
1:20:39I'm gonna yank it out of my desktop
1:20:41and use the second computer behind the monitor,
1:20:43I'd rather just have the monitor.
1:20:45So, I don't know,
1:20:46I don't think they're gonna do target display mode,
1:20:48unless it's really easy,
1:20:49unless it falls out of the new arrangement of the internals
1:20:52of the new 5K iMac,
1:20:55like they've simplified everything
1:20:56because now they do have Thunderbolt 3,
1:20:57so they don't have to have that double,
1:20:59they essentially internal double driving the display
1:21:02through this weird timing controller
1:21:04that they were bragging about that multiplexes it,
1:21:06or, you know, once that is simplified internally,
1:21:09if target display mode just falls out of the fact
1:21:11of the internal architecture,
1:21:12sure, by all means offer it,
1:21:13it's like, it's, you know, good flexibility,
1:21:15but it's not what I'm looking for.
1:21:16- Now, something that I'd forgotten about,
1:21:19but while you guys were talking, I'd remembered,
1:21:21is that you can also do target disk mode,
1:21:25which really doesn't solve the problem
1:21:27we're talking about here,
1:21:28but one time, or maybe a couple times, just for fun,
1:21:32I actually booted my work-issued MacBook Pro on my iMac,
1:21:37or I guess, strictly speaking,
1:21:41my iMac booted itself off of my work-issued
1:21:44MacBook Pro's hard drive.
1:21:45So, I was using all of my iMac's bits and bobs,
1:21:50except instead of using the onboard SSD,
1:21:52I was using the SSD in my MacBook Pro,
1:21:56which was very weird and very cool,
1:21:59and definitely had some caveats and drawbacks,
1:22:00most especially the keychain lost its ever-loving mind,
1:22:04because it was basically a new computer at this point,
1:22:07but it is something you can do,
1:22:08and I did a write-up about this three years ago
1:22:11on my website, which I'll link in the show notes,
1:22:12but it's just something that's a neat party trick
1:22:16for very, very nerdy parties, I guess.
1:22:18- Yeah, like, target disk mode
1:22:19has been on the Mac forever,
1:22:20and it's an awesome tool for migration or data recovery,
1:22:24like, for that kind of thing.
1:22:26I don't think it's intended, and was ever intended,
1:22:29to be just booted up for fun,
1:22:31like, I'll just use my iMac like this.
1:22:32I don't think it's ever meant for that,
1:22:34but yeah, for transfers and recovery, it's awesome.
1:22:38- Yeah, I mean, it was nice having my work machine
1:22:40on this 20, well, so to speak, on my 27-inch screen.
1:22:43I mean, ultimately, it was the iMac booting
1:22:45off of the work machine's hard drive, like I said,
1:22:47but it was very freeing having a 27-inch screen
1:22:50all of a sudden, but it was not,
1:22:53that juice was not worth the squeeze, ultimately.
1:22:55- You're bringing back the thing from the beginning
1:22:56of having, like, a little thing that you carry around
1:22:58that has your data, and you just connect it up to,
1:23:00although the thing is very large, in the case of the laptop.
1:23:02Do you recall if, when you put your laptop
1:23:05into target disk mode, did it show the FireWire logo
1:23:08on the screen as, like, a screensaver?
1:23:10- I actually have a picture on my website,
1:23:12and it is, it's a little lightning bolt-y thing.
1:23:16- Yeah, it shows whatever the interface is that you're using,
1:23:18so, like, on modern ones, it'll show a Thunderbolt icon.
1:23:21- I thought there was some period of time
1:23:22where it continued to show the FireWire logo,
1:23:25even when it wasn't using FireWire,
1:23:26like, maybe just during the transition,
1:23:28but I may be wrong about that.
1:23:29That's why I was curious.
1:23:30- FireWire had a good logo, like, among, like,
1:23:33the connection standard logos that we've had over the years,
1:23:35I think FireWire's was the best one.
1:23:37- It looks a little bit like Destiny logo.
1:23:39- Oh, God. - Three-pointed thing, right?
1:23:41- I don't even know, I can't even judge the reference,
1:23:44'cause I don't even know what Destiny logo looks like.
1:23:46- Can't believe you don't.
1:23:48- Okay, let's move on, let's move on.
1:23:50- You really can't believe that?
1:23:51- All those videos that I'm, all the things
1:23:53that I'm tweeting and retweeting about Destiny,
1:23:56thinking you ought to come across it.
1:23:57- You don't think that I muted that 18 years ago?
1:23:59- I should stop using that hashtag.
1:24:02- No! - Sneak past your filters.
1:24:05- Oh, please, no.
1:24:06All right, Chris Hubbard writes,
1:24:07"What software like cPanel does Marco use
1:24:09"to manage his servers on Linode?"
1:24:11Chris continues, "I use another shared business
1:24:14"hosting service.
1:24:15"I had considered Linode, but the price
1:24:17"of a cPanel solo license is more
1:24:19"than what my entire hosting cost."
1:24:20- I don't use anything like that.
1:24:24I simply administer my servers manually
1:24:27using command line stuff and set up scripts
1:24:29that I write and things like that.
1:24:31There are, and there are even tools now
1:24:33that make it even easier.
1:24:34I can't really recommend any,
1:24:36'cause I'm not really in that market.
1:24:37I've never used any of the other tools.
1:24:39But things like cPanel, I mean,
1:24:42they came up in the era of bulk shared hosting
1:24:46where you didn't have VPSs or cloud instances,
1:24:50which are basically VPSs.
1:24:51You didn't have those yet.
1:24:52You had dedicated servers that you could run
1:24:56200 small websites on and have to manage
1:24:59all these different websites off of one box.
1:25:02That's kinda where that software came up,
1:25:04and there's some justification for it
1:25:07in that kind of situation, although even then,
1:25:09I think you have probably better tools these days
1:25:11for even that kind of thing if you still do that.
1:25:13But yeah, these days, when you're running your own VPSs
1:25:17or cloud node kind of things,
1:25:19there's I think very little reason
1:25:20to use that kind of stuff.
1:25:22It does help if you're a novice.
1:25:24It helps you add domains and stuff like that
1:25:26if you're a novice, but honestly,
1:25:28it's probably easier to just learn how to do that yourself
1:25:32manually from the command line
1:25:34than it is to deal with any of these packages these days.
1:25:37And I'll say that, and I said on Twitter too,
1:25:39I kinda responded to this on Twitter as well,
1:25:40like so many developers or nerds or power users
1:25:44will jump through ridiculous hoops
1:25:48to avoid learning how to use the command line
1:25:51because they think that it's harder than it really is.
1:25:54The fact is, learning basic Unix command line stuff,
1:25:57things like basic directory management, file management,
1:26:02basic editing with a tool like vim/vi,
1:26:06which is available pretty much everywhere on everything,
1:26:08on every server everywhere,
1:26:10and learning how to use these things at a basic level
1:26:13is such a critical skill for so many types
1:26:16of advanced computer tasks and power user tasks
1:26:18and system administrator tasks,
1:26:21and it doesn't change very much over time.
1:26:23The basics of things like using the command shell
1:26:26and piping commands to each other and things like that,
1:26:29that stuff hardly ever changes.
1:26:31You can learn it once, and it'll be pretty stable
1:26:35and pretty useful for your entire career in all likelihood.
1:26:39So it's worth learning, and it's not that hard to learn.
1:26:43I would say it's easier than things like Swift.
1:26:48I think it's actually much easier to learn shell stuff
1:26:50than it is to learn Swift.
1:26:52If you are a nerd enough to want to run your own servers,
1:26:57you have the capacity to learn command line basics,
1:27:00and you really should,
1:27:02and there's lots of great documentation out there.
1:27:05Much of which is published by Linode,
1:27:08but it works on any server.
1:27:10But you can get a server for like five bucks a month
1:27:13and just try setting up a website,
1:27:16and just stumble through with guides and stuff
1:27:18until you figure it out,
1:27:20and you will eventually build up these skills
1:27:22of using command line tools and editing config files
1:27:25and stuff like that,
1:27:26and these skills really last a lifetime,
1:27:29and they're worth learning.
1:27:30So I would say try not using stuff like cPanel
1:27:35and not using automated setup tools,
1:27:37and just try setting up yourself
1:27:38and see how far you get,
1:27:39because that skill is worth building.
1:27:41- Another thing I would add is that,
1:27:43I mean, different people learn in different ways,
1:27:45and I always find this type of learning helps me,
1:27:47but I think particularly with the command line,
1:27:49because it's such a large problem domain,
1:27:52like you think of it as one thing,
1:27:53like I know quote unquote the command line,
1:27:56or even worse, the terminal, right?
1:27:58But really it's this entire universe
1:28:00of different operating systems and different shells
1:28:03and different pieces of software
1:28:04that you are manipulating from those shells
1:28:06on those operating systems,
1:28:07and the number of variables is huge.
1:28:09So I think one good way to get started on this
1:28:14is to find some way to get a basic conceptual understanding
1:28:17of the relationship of the pieces to each other,
1:28:20rather than learning,
1:28:21I know specifically the magic things that I type
1:28:24to make this happen with this particular software
1:28:26and this platform,
1:28:27because then it can just become like sort of cargo culting,
1:28:29where it's like, well, I know this command,
1:28:30and I know that command,
1:28:31and like if you don't understand what the little,
1:28:34you know, greater than signs and ampersands
1:28:36and whatever else you're typing on the command line,
1:28:38or a dot slash, and like,
1:28:39like if you don't understand all that stuff,
1:28:42it can still seem like magic,
1:28:44even though you've like quote unquote learned it,
1:28:47understanding the fundamentals.
1:28:48What is all this stuff?
1:28:49What is a terminal?
1:28:50What is, you know,
1:28:51what happens when I type a command and hit return,
1:28:54and how does that translate into something happening?
1:28:57That is conceptual, and if you learn that,
1:29:00then everything else is just details.
1:29:01It's kind of like, you know,
1:29:02learning the basis of programming.
1:29:04You learn about loops, conditionals, and stuff like that,
1:29:06and functions, and like with those basics,
1:29:08a lot of programming language become like,
1:29:10oh, I understand what functions are.
1:29:12Just tell me how functions work in this language.
1:29:14I understand what arrays are.
1:29:16Just tell me how arrays work in this language, right?
1:29:18And so that type of basic understanding,
1:29:20no, it won't make you a super duper expert,
1:29:21and you won't know the esoteric stuff,
1:29:23or esoteric stuff as people tell me it's pronounced,
1:29:25but it will really help you,
1:29:27it will really help you not feel like you're at sea,
1:29:32because it's like, oh, I knew how to set up Apache,
1:29:34but now here's this new thing,
1:29:35and I don't really understand what those things
1:29:37I was typing for Apache,
1:29:39to get Apache to work actually meant,
1:29:41so I don't have any sort of ladder to grab onto
1:29:44when I'm trying to set up Nginx, right?
1:29:47So that's my suggestion.
1:29:48Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions
1:29:50of like where do I go to get that conceptual understanding,
1:29:52but I think if you look at any piece of documentation,
1:29:54you can tell, is this just telling me
1:29:55how to set up a particular piece of software,
1:29:57or is this trying to tell me this is what a shell is,
1:30:00this is what Unix is, this is what files and directories are.
1:30:03Here are some basics about it.
1:30:04Like if you see something,
1:30:05a guide that starts with that type of information,
1:30:08I would dive in and make sure you get some of that
1:30:11before you get neck deep in setting up your MySQL server.
1:30:16- All right, and finally, Joseph Dykstra asks,
1:30:18what are your opinions on people listening to ATP
1:30:20faster than OneX?
1:30:21Some podcasters dislike their shows being sped up.
1:30:25As one of the people who does not edit this show,
1:30:28I don't personally have a problem with it.
1:30:30If you can and want to listen to us faster,
1:30:33then go for it and do what you gotta do.
1:30:35John, as the other person who does not edit this show,
1:30:37do you have opinions about this?
1:30:39- I don't care, people listen to it however they want.
1:30:41I listen to my podcast at OneX,
1:30:43but I understand why people don't.
1:30:44So, you know, I mean, the only place
1:30:47it impacts my life at all is people constantly telling us
1:30:50that we sound drunk when they hear us at OneX,
1:30:52but it's funny that it's always the same thing.
1:30:55It's always you sound drunk,
1:30:56not you sound tired or slow or groggy.
1:30:59It's always drunk, so they always go right to the drinking.
1:31:01Anyway, other than that one effect,
1:31:03I don't care, listen to whatever you want.
1:31:05We're just glad you listen.
1:31:07- Exactly, Mr. Editor, however, what are your thoughts?
1:31:10- Basically the same.
1:31:11I mean, I make a podcast app,
1:31:13and I give people speed controls.
1:31:15- He's the one who makes the app that does this.
1:31:17- Yeah, I make the app that most of our listeners
1:31:20use to listen to the show in, and I give them the option,
1:31:22and it's totally fine.
1:31:24I listen faster than OneX myself to almost everything.
1:31:27There are very few shows I listen to at OneX.
1:31:29Most shows I listen to at about One and a Quarter X.
1:31:32So it's not super fast, but it's faster than normal.
1:31:35And there are indeed a lot of podcasters
1:31:37who have almost a moral objection.
1:31:40You know, or similar features like Smart Speed.
1:31:44We put those silences in there for a reason,
1:31:46and if you shorten them,
1:31:47you're ruining our editorial choices.
1:31:49I get why people would think that, but I don't think that.
1:31:54I think that we put our podcasts out there
1:31:58for people to listen to, and once we do that,
1:32:00it's in your hands.
1:32:01Like, a book publisher doesn't tell their readers,
1:32:05like, you aren't allowed to skim any pages in my book.
1:32:08You have to read every word very carefully.
1:32:10You can never skim, you can never look forward.
1:32:13Like, that's impractical and unreasonable
1:32:17to expect of people.
1:32:18What actually happens is, you put your work out there
1:32:21the way you intend for it to be done,
1:32:23but then once you put it out there,
1:32:26it becomes the audience's, like, to do with what they want.
1:32:29And they're not gonna experience it
1:32:32the way you intend 100% of the time,
1:32:35and you just gotta deal with that.
1:32:37So we put our podcast out there,
1:32:39and you can listen to it however you want.
1:32:41As Jon said, we're just glad that you listen.
1:32:43So, thanks.
1:32:45- I feel like the point stands about, though,
1:32:46like, the skimming type thing.
1:32:47Like, I think an author would feel like,
1:32:49oh, I don't want people skimming my thing.
1:32:51And the reason I listen to everything in 1X
1:32:53is because I do wanna hear those silences.
1:32:55But everyone has different priorities.
1:32:57If you don't have time to get through an entire episode
1:33:01in your commute unless you do it at a faster speed,
1:33:03or if you find it too boring to listen to people
1:33:05talk in 1X, like, those outweigh the thing of like,
1:33:08oh, I, you know, 'cause you are missing some nuances
1:33:10of timing that, you know, gaps in silence can be annoying,
1:33:14and you're getting rid of the annoyance,
1:33:15but sometimes the gaps in silence can make a joke funnier,
1:33:17and you're missing out on that, and it's a trade-off.
1:33:19But people understand what the trade-offs are,
1:33:21and they make the trade-off that makes sense for them.
1:33:23If time compression is more important
1:33:25than hearing the pauses in someone's speech,
1:33:27that's the choice they make.
1:33:28And same thing with skimming.
1:33:30I think if we did a music show,
1:33:34I think all of us would have a bit more of an objection,
1:33:36'cause if you're like, but music, it's like,
1:33:38it's rhythmic, and you're hearing it faster,
1:33:40and it's really weird, and smarts being,
1:33:41might do weird stuff to music.
1:33:43But other than just that one little song break we have,
1:33:45it's not a music thing.
1:33:46So because it's speech, I think it is less onerous,
1:33:48but everything you said is the reason I do listen at 1X,
1:33:52and the skimming thing from authors is the reason
1:33:54people who make content might wish
1:33:56you didn't listen to it spit up,
1:33:59because they feel like you're missing something
1:34:00that they worked hard on, like, oh, you skimmed that page,
1:34:03and that was actually my best passage,
1:34:04but you just really kind of skipped over it.
1:34:06But that's, there's nothing you can do about that,
1:34:10and I bet the author would just be happy
1:34:12that you bought their book,
1:34:13and so that's where we're coming from.
1:34:14- Yeah, and there are people who watch movies
1:34:16at faster than 1X.
1:34:19Like, this phenomenon is spreading,
1:34:22and we have so much media available to us
1:34:26in the modern world.
1:34:27We have such a surplus of available media.
1:34:31Somebody who watches movies at 2X,
1:34:33or listens to podcasts at 2X, they don't hate movies.
1:34:36They don't hate podcasts.
1:34:37- Well, the movie people kind of hate,
1:34:39they kind of hate movies.
1:34:40- Well, maybe, yeah, maybe.
1:34:41I haven't tried that, actually.
1:34:42- It's like music.
1:34:43I feel like speech is the one where it's the most excusable,
1:34:47because we're not singing,
1:34:48and you're not listening to the melodic sound of our voices.
1:34:51That's not why, presumably,
1:34:52not why you're listening to the show.
1:34:53It's not an ASMR show, right?
1:34:56It's a transference of information
1:34:58and to secondarily emotion,
1:35:00which I think still comes through,
1:35:01whereas if it was music, much less so,
1:35:03and I feel like movie, because there's a visual element,
1:35:06and that gets spit up, and everyone walks fast and stuff.
1:35:10- I mean, honestly, I don't want to do that to movies,
1:35:13but I kind of get why some people do,
1:35:15'cause it's like the same thing.
1:35:17And when we have this massive surplus
1:35:20of content available to us,
1:35:22the reason I speed up podcasts by a little bit
1:35:25is because I want to listen to more podcasts.
1:35:27And I have more podcasts that I want to listen to
1:35:30than I have time.
1:35:31Sometimes, if I get really behind in my queue,
1:35:32and I have this massive queue,
1:35:34I'm not gonna go delete things I want to listen to.
1:35:37I will just increase my speed for that week.
1:35:39And then once I run out of things,
1:35:41I'll slow it back down again.
1:35:42That's a control I have.
1:35:45And I'm doing all this so that I don't have to cut things,
1:35:49so I don't have to listen to fewer podcasts.
1:35:52And I still have room to try new podcasts.
1:35:55That's why I do this.
1:35:56And I think that's the reason why most people do it.
1:36:00Most people I know who listen to podcasts faster than 1X
1:36:03listen to a ton of podcasts.
1:36:05So if their alternative is just listen to fewer,
1:36:09I feel like everyone loses there.
1:36:11So yeah, people can listen to whoever they want.
1:36:13- A good example of sped up videos,
1:36:16W2C sessions, I often watch it faster than 1X
1:36:18just because there's lots of,
1:36:20because Apple trains their speakers to take their time
1:36:22and pause between slides, which is great and everything,
1:36:24but sometimes I more or less know most of the material
1:36:27and I just want to get to the good stuff.
1:36:28So just letting it run at 1.5X
1:36:30while half paying attention to it
1:36:31is the great way to do that.
1:36:33That's visual, but it's mostly just spoken word and slides.
1:36:36So I don't get to see people walking across the stage
1:36:38really fast and making it distracting.
1:36:40- Right, and they do occasionally
1:36:41when they're going in and out of demos.
1:36:42Yeah, I do the same thing.
1:36:43I usually watch W2C videos at 1.5X.
1:36:45And yeah, it does sound a little bit funny
1:36:47and people do walk funny when you see them coming on and off,
1:36:49but it's fine because that's something like,
1:36:51not everything is a masterpiece of art.
1:36:54Like not every video that people watch
1:36:58is a handcrafted piece of film
1:37:01that has been made by experts who every second counts.
1:37:03Like a lot of what people watch is stuff on YouTube.
1:37:06And so to watch some of that at 2X,
1:37:092X wouldn't be fast enough
1:37:10for a lot of the stuff I find on YouTube. (laughs)
1:37:14- Brutal.
1:37:15- And the same thing is true for podcasts.
1:37:17So many podcasts, like ours, are produced
1:37:20in a casual conversational format
1:37:23where we are not heavily editing this show.
1:37:26We are not scripting this show.
1:37:28If you're listening to one of the big publishers' podcasts,
1:37:31every line of what you're listening to
1:37:33from almost all the major podcasts
1:37:36that are produced by these big companies,
1:37:37those are scripted.
1:37:39Almost every single line is scripted.
1:37:40And then it's edited to an inch of its life.
1:37:43They have massive production and writing going into them.
1:37:47Even things that sound off the cuff
1:37:49are usually not on the big shows.
1:37:51They are almost always scripted.
1:37:54And so when you're listening to something like that,
1:37:55they can say, "Oh, we handcrafted all these silences,
1:37:58"all these words, all these phrases.
1:37:59"You can't gloss over any of this
1:38:01"'cause it was all made intentionally."
1:38:03That isn't true for most podcasts.
1:38:05Most podcasts are done closer to what we're doing here,
1:38:08of just people talking.
1:38:10And they're off the cuff.
1:38:11Maybe they're going off of an outline.
1:38:13Maybe they have a few things they want to say,
1:38:14but for the most part, it's more conversational.
1:38:16That's part of what makes the medium great, I think.
1:38:18I think people really appreciate
1:38:20the conversational nature of it.
1:38:21But that is going to also have, by definition,
1:38:23a lot of dead space, a lot of dead air,
1:38:26and phrasing that is wasteful,
1:38:29and people repeating themselves like I do all the time.
1:38:31Having something that goes through it faster,
1:38:34you're not missing this marvelous work of art
1:38:36between every single word.
1:38:38You're just hearing conversation a little bit faster.
1:38:40And that's totally fine.
1:38:42Anyway, thanks to our sponsors this week,
1:38:44Hover, Squarespace, and Fracture.
1:38:47And we'll see you next week.
1:38:48(upbeat music)
1:38:51♫ Now the show is over
1:38:53♫ They didn't even mean to begin
1:38:56♫ 'Cause it was accidental
1:38:57♫ Accidental
1:38:58♫ Oh, it was accidental
1:39:00♫ Accidental
1:39:01♫ John didn't do any research
1:39:03♫ Marco and Casey wouldn't let him
1:39:06♫ 'Cause it was accidental
1:39:08♫ Accidental
1:39:09♫ Oh, it was accidental
1:39:10♫ Accidental
1:39:12♫ And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM
1:39:16♫ And if you're into Twitter
1:39:20♫ You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L
1:39:24♫ I-S-S, so that's Casey Liss
1:39:27♫ M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M
1:39:30♫ N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-N
1:39:33♫ S-I-R-A-C
1:39:35♫ U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A
1:39:38♫ It's accidental
1:39:39♫ It's accidental
1:39:41♫ They didn't mean to accidental
1:39:44♫ Accidental
1:39:46♫ Tech podcast so long
1:39:49(buzzer)
1:39:51- Don't install the betas.
1:39:53Oh my god.
1:39:54Why is everyone installing the betas?
1:39:56Why did Apple make this the public beta?
1:39:59- Did you hear that Merlin installed it
1:40:01on his phone and his iPad?
1:40:04- I mean, I did, but that's stupid.
1:40:06- On his main phone.
1:40:07You installed it on your main phone?
1:40:09- Yeah, I waited 'til beta two
1:40:11and I installed it on my main phone.
1:40:12And it totally solved my robocall problem,
1:40:16but it introduced a lot of other problems.
1:40:18- I'm glad you waited 'til beta two,
1:40:20which shows that you weren't like,
1:40:21"I can't wait, I have to install it."
1:40:22But I think you just waited for the number
1:40:25to go from one to two and didn't check.
1:40:27Hey, is beta two actually better than beta one
1:40:30in terms of stability?
1:40:30Like, well, it's one more, so I'm installing it,
1:40:32and now you found out.
1:40:33(laughing)
1:40:34Not really.
1:40:35- It's so bad.
1:40:36- I wouldn't even install beta two on my iPad.
1:40:40I haven't installed it anywhere.
1:40:41I wanted beta two on my iPad,
1:40:42but then I'm like, "Let me just read about this a little bit."
1:40:44And I said, "Nah, I'm gonna skip that."
1:40:47Wait a little longer.
1:40:47Let me tell you, people,
1:40:49it's probably already too late for most of you,
1:40:51but if it's not too late,
1:40:52if you're still on the fence
1:40:53and you haven't installed the betas yet,
1:40:54don't install the betas.
1:40:55The public beta is garbage.
1:40:57The public beta should not have been released
1:40:59as a public beta.
1:41:00It is developer beta two of everything, that's what it is.
1:41:02And developer beta two is terrible.
1:41:05It feels like beta one still
1:41:08of an average to poor quality year.
1:41:11I have tons of beta problems
1:41:14on my developer beta two installs of everything.
1:41:17The iPad is bad.
1:41:19The phone is bad.
1:41:21Catalina, I'm not really using much.
1:41:22I'm only booting into it occasionally,
1:41:24so I don't know how bad it is.
1:41:25But a lot of people are having problems with these betas.
1:41:27These are really rough.
1:41:29You should not be running these.
1:41:30And I do think Apple has done a great disservice
1:41:34by releasing such an incredibly rough set of builds
1:41:37as the public betas.
1:41:38- So Merlin doesn't yell at me four weeks from now
1:41:41when we record our next episode.
1:41:42Translated from hyperbolic conversational podcast speak,
1:41:46what Marco was saying is that even the very latest builds
1:41:49of the public beta are not particularly stable
1:41:51and you should be aware of that.
1:41:52He says it as don't install that,
1:41:54but obviously if you need to install it
1:41:56or if you want to install it and just deal with the bugs,
1:41:58we just want you to know what you're getting into.
1:42:00So what we're telling you is that they are not stable
1:42:02and tons of crap doesn't work.
1:42:03If you hear that and say, that's fine,
1:42:05I still wanna install it, go for it, right?
1:42:07But we just want you to be aware
1:42:09that if you have experiences based on iOS 12 beta,
1:42:13you thought, oh betas aren't that bad.
1:42:14This is more back to the bad old days of iOS 5
1:42:17where the beta is like barely even functional
1:42:19and basic things don't work.
1:42:21So just so you're aware of that.
1:42:22So when people say don't install the beta,
1:42:25and speaking half to Merlin and half to other people,
1:42:27they're not saying literally,
1:42:28I forbid you to install the beta.
1:42:30By all means, install it if you wanna install it.
1:42:32Just be aware.
1:42:33We're providing you information and experience
1:42:35that we either have done it ourselves foolishly
1:42:38or know other people who have done it
1:42:40and have felt the pain.
1:42:41And so now you know,
1:42:42is this a pain that you want in your life?
1:42:44Maybe it is, maybe you got a spare device, go crazy.
1:42:46Or maybe not.
1:42:48- Speak for yourself, I actually mean don't install the betas.
1:42:50(laughing)
1:42:51- All right, well,
1:42:52- They're really bad. - Margo is very extreme.
1:42:54Margo has banned you from installing the betas, everybody.
1:42:56That's it, I'm sorry, I tried to stop 'em, but.
1:42:58- Yeah, and there's a number of good reasons why.
1:43:01So first of all, and one thing that I didn't even do
1:43:04that I didn't consider,
1:43:06but that a friend of ours remarked the other day
1:43:09that I think is a really good point.
1:43:12Like on iOS, you know, you can always step back from a beta
1:43:16if you do a full restore with these certain steps,
1:43:19like you're able to un-beta something,
1:43:20so you kinda have a way out.
1:43:22On Mac OS, I've mentioned how I do this separate install
1:43:25in a separate APFS volume, or partition,
1:43:28whatever they call them,
1:43:29so that way like the data stays separate
1:43:31from my Mojave installation,
1:43:33you do a dual boot scenario,
1:43:35or some people would do external disks to do that.
1:43:38So you're kinda keeping it separate.
1:43:40One thing that I didn't consider,
1:43:42that I'm always bad at whenever I do this,
1:43:44is that iCloud, and your iCloud data,
1:43:49your iCloud account,
1:43:51is your primary data volume in a lot of ways.
1:43:55And you are logging into a beta with your iCloud account,
1:43:59you're logging into your main data.
1:44:02And iCloud is especially risky to do this with,
1:44:04because if your iCloud account gets messed up by the beta,
1:44:09there is no time machine for iCloud,
1:44:12there is no recovery for iCloud,
1:44:14you can't just go and restore your data
1:44:17back to where it was on iCloud.
1:44:20So in a way, logging into your iCloud account on a beta
1:44:24is the most risky thing you could possibly do to that data,
1:44:27because you are putting it at the whims of the beta world,
1:44:31which is often very unreliable,
1:44:33especially in the early betas,
1:44:33especially with iCloud data,
1:44:35and you can't step it back.
1:44:38Once that data is touched by the new installation,
1:44:40that's it, it isn't in its own little separate sandbox,
1:44:43you are dealing with your live and permanent iCloud data
1:44:47with beta software.
1:44:48So if you are going to install the betas,
1:44:51not only should you do it on dedicated hardware,
1:44:54you should also not log into your iCloud account with it.
1:44:58And so you start to think about
1:44:59what this actually means in practice,
1:45:01if it's not on your primary devices,
1:45:03and you're not gonna log into iCloud from it,
1:45:06what the hell are you gonna do with it?
1:45:08- I mean, that's why we had the same conversation
1:45:11with Merlin, and I was surprised that people
1:45:14were just thinking of this now,
1:45:15because it's been true as long as iCloud has existed,
1:45:18and that's why I had all those Apple IDs.
1:45:19Remember my big Apple ID saga?
1:45:21All those Apple IDs were the Apple IDs
1:45:24that I would use with beta versions of macOS,
1:45:26'cause I would never use my real Apple IDs.
1:45:27It was worse back in the old days.
1:45:29They would just completely hose your data routinely.
1:45:32And then there was sort of the middle years
1:45:33where Apple was upgrading the storage format,
1:45:36do you remember that?
1:45:37Like they changed the storage format out of Notes,
1:45:38they moved them from IMAP into their regular stuff,
1:45:40and sometimes when they, you know,
1:45:42like there would be a one-way backend transition
1:45:45that if you did transition your Notes on that Apple ID,
1:45:50your other devices could no longer read it,
1:45:52or couldn't read it correctly, or it's even true today.
1:45:56It's like I'm sitting in front of a LCAP on this Mac.
1:45:59I can't see some of the Notes that I create
1:46:01on newer operating systems on this Mac.
1:46:03It still works with them, but the Notes that are made
1:46:05with like newer features just don't show up at all
1:46:08on this Mac.
1:46:09So if you're gonna have beta OS's
1:46:12and you're gonna be installing them, have spare Apple IDs.
1:46:14It's kind of a pain in the butt, as I discovered,
1:46:17especially when you decide you don't need them anymore,
1:46:19but that's the safe way to do it.
1:46:20Spare Apple IDs with fake data, and it's like,
1:46:21well, what are you even doing?
1:46:23You're basically doing what I would do for my reviews.
1:46:25You're exploring the operating system in a safe way.
1:46:28It's on a separate volume, it's with separate Apple IDs.
1:46:31You start filling your fake Apple IDs with semi-real data
1:46:34so you can see what it's like.
1:46:36Like it's not fun opening up Notes and seeing no Notes.
1:46:39You don't know how the sync works until you start
1:46:41adding Notes and adding pictures to your Notes
1:46:42and all that other stuff.
1:46:44But that's definitely the safest way to do it.
1:46:45Now I have to say, in recent years,
1:46:47Apple has hosed your iCloud data far less often.
1:46:52But since I've always been using spare Apple IDs,
1:46:55I can't say that definitively.
1:46:57Usually what I do is I wait until like the release
1:47:00before the final release, and then I'll put my real
1:47:02Apple ID on a beta system, and usually by then
1:47:04it's fairly safe that they're not gonna hose your stuff,
1:47:06but not always.
1:47:07And as for time machine for iCloud,
1:47:10it's especially true of big data sets,
1:47:12but for small data sets you do have an out,
1:47:14and I've used this out a couple of times.
1:47:16For example, contacts lets you save,
1:47:19I think they still call it an address book archive
1:47:21or whatever, lets you save a single archive
1:47:23of all the information, and it's small,
1:47:26'cause like how many contacts do you have?
1:47:27Worst case scenario, if iCloud hoses everything,
1:47:31just wipe all of your contacts, wipe it from every
1:47:33single device, wipe it from, you know, just tell,
1:47:35I have zero contacts, and then just restore
1:47:37from the address book archive.
1:47:38Can't do that with 100,000 photos and metadata
1:47:41in your iPhone library.
1:47:42So, you know, there is no time machine.
1:47:45For select sets, there is a way to export or reimport,
1:47:49but in general, use testing Apple IDs,
1:47:52and then just deal with the fact that you're gonna have
1:47:5420 Apple IDs that you have to call Apple
1:47:56about five years from now.
1:47:59- I really wanna put 13 on my iPad,
1:48:01and I do have some travel coming up in a couple of months
1:48:06when presumably whatever beta we're on,
1:48:08if not the released version at that point,
1:48:10will be much more stable.
1:48:11- Install the beta right before you get on the plane,
1:48:13that's the best time to install betas.
1:48:14- That's the right moment.
1:48:15- Traveling with beta software is awesome.
1:48:18You should be installing it while you're on battery
1:48:20in the airport.
1:48:20- The airport wifi.
1:48:23- The airport wifi.
1:48:24Oh man, that's funny.
1:48:26No, but I really wanna put it on my iPad really badly,
1:48:29and I have resisted so far,
1:48:32and from everything I've heard
1:48:33even before recording this episode,
1:48:35it sounds like I've made the right call.
1:48:37And usually it's been at least passable by public beta time,
1:48:42and as you're saying, Marco, everything I've heard
1:48:45is that it is not even passable yet,
1:48:47and to stay away, which is what I'm gonna be doing.
1:48:50- I made that joke about installing your thing
1:48:52in the airport, but in case you don't remember,
1:48:55I did, didn't reinstall, I reset my Apple Watch
1:49:00in line at WMC.
1:49:02- Indeed, I do remember that.
1:49:04- I left the hotel and didn't realize
1:49:05that it was failing to pair with my phone entirely,
1:49:09and I talked to the Apple Watch experts in line around me,
1:49:12AKA underscore.
1:49:13- Underscore, yeah.
1:49:14- And he said, yeah, you just need to reset,
1:49:18erase all data, whatever that option is called,
1:49:20where I reset and erase all data on your watch,
1:49:23and a series zero takes like an hour and a half to do that,
1:49:27maybe it was two hours, and I was looking at it,
1:49:29I'm like, is this gonna, you know,
1:49:30'cause I'm not anywhere near a charger,
1:49:32it's just on my wrist, I think it was at least an hour
1:49:35watching that thing slowly. - It was a long time.
1:49:38- But it didn't kill the entire battery,
1:49:39it did actually reset everything and pair with my phone again
1:49:43and I restored a backup from the last time
1:49:46I had worn my watch, and everything turned out fine.
1:49:49(beeping)