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0:00:28the incomparable number 207 every
0:00:37november 2015
0:00:42welcome back everybody to the
0:00:43incomparable i am your host Jason smell
0:00:45and I am joined by three fellows who are
0:00:49going to join me in discussing all men
0:00:51all matters well not all matters some
0:00:53matters robotic or artificially
0:00:55intelligent we're gonna talk about two
0:00:57recent films with very interesting takes
0:00:59on the question of artificial
0:01:01intelligence and perhaps we'll leave
0:01:04some time for some tangents about other
0:01:06films that also have touched on these
0:01:07issues the two films in question in on
0:01:11this episode 2013 spike jonze joint
0:01:15called her I i called a joint even
0:01:19though he's not spike lee he spike jonze
0:01:21because that's a that was a reference
0:01:22and now explaining it made it not as
0:01:24good and ex machina a british science
0:01:28fiction film from this very year of 2015
0:01:30starting a bunch of people who are in
0:01:33the new Star Wars movie but anyway uh
0:01:35huh
0:01:36joining me to talk about both of these
0:01:38films and perhaps other robots and a is
0:01:41killer and not brian hamilton hello and
0:01:45welcome
0:01:45hi I'm here your i hope so are you here
0:01:48despite Jim's made a movie called i am
0:01:52here so i guess the answer that question
0:01:53for us
0:01:54ok thank you Brian you've confused me
0:01:57already but that's okay are you are
0:01:59you're hotter not David laura is also
0:02:01here
0:02:02hello I'll be with you in a minute i'm
0:02:04downloading a thing on my phone that's
0:02:06really interesting and well we'll get to
0:02:08that and john stark you see you have
0:02:10passed a an exam at work and I'm
0:02:12inviting you to my remote compound for a
0:02:17mysterious it's unexplained reason
0:02:20will you come I'm starting to get the
0:02:22feeling that Hollywood doesn't like
0:02:24artificial intelligence or computers you
0:02:27think anything or silicon valley
0:02:30billionaires quite honestly now I mean
0:02:32and but you know who does who does where
0:02:37should we start should we start with her
0:02:39I think that's the chronologically we
0:02:42should start with her
0:02:43yes alright so spike jonze a very
0:02:46interesting director you may know him
0:02:48from directing that weezer video buddy
0:02:50holly that was where I first heard of
0:02:52mr. spike jonze but he's made a whole
0:02:54bunch of interesting
0:02:55films i believe this is the first film
0:02:58that he's written all by himself but but
0:03:01you know he made being john malkovich he
0:03:04made adaptation which I hated but i
0:03:07really like being john malkovich you
0:03:09made where the wild things are and her
0:03:11in 2013
0:03:13so I guess we'll start there Joaquin
0:03:16Phoenix is your lead really nice
0:03:18performance from amy adams in this and
0:03:22of course the voice of Scarlett
0:03:23Johansson is her Samantha who is a an
0:03:27intelligent computer they don't refer to
0:03:30them as a eyes which i think is
0:03:31interesting and her they call them os's
0:03:33operating systems because maybe they
0:03:36thought a I was too nerdy but OS wasn't
0:03:39i'm not quite sure I'm sense to me
0:03:41because I guess yeah
0:03:42ki is much more like science fictiony
0:03:45and os I guess especially now with no OS
0:03:4910 and iOS is much more down-to-earth
0:03:50well because it said in the phone and
0:03:54and you know he's trying to make the
0:03:55point that you have this in your pocket
0:03:57basically you know he did the AI is kind
0:04:00of distant whereas OS we all have it
0:04:02fair enough fair enough i just think I
0:04:04thought it was an interesting creative
0:04:05choice to take it out of the realm
0:04:08you're right of science fiction and
0:04:10trying to make it one of the things i
0:04:12like about this movie because it said
0:04:13Annie no near future ish right and i
0:04:16think they do a very good job with some
0:04:18of the the art direction in her that you
0:04:21feel like you feel like you are in the
0:04:23near future and that they have thought
0:04:25of some things to make it feel a little
0:04:27bit different but it also isn't like
0:04:30Blade Runner flying car kind of stuff
0:04:32it's meant to be you know 10 years in
0:04:34the future or five years in the future
0:04:35or something like that something where
0:04:38you're going to say 20 minutes
0:04:39well I was on and then I changed it
0:04:41because old reference lost on younger
0:04:43viewers but it does have that like Max
0:04:45Headroom 45 minutes like Max Headroom
0:04:48this is this is not now but not too far
0:04:50away where this thing takes place and I
0:04:52thought they did a good job of it ever
0:04:54feeling like you know not crazy sci-fi
0:04:56future but but close future
0:04:58well I think you're right about them
0:05:00wanting it to feel like oh you can
0:05:03relate to this cuz
0:05:04you have a cell phone and you use
0:05:06computers and this is not that weird and
0:05:08they're wearing like hipster clothes but
0:05:10that's not that weird either but they
0:05:12also like the heart of the movie they
0:05:14also want to have essentially you
0:05:16they're going to call it artificial
0:05:17intelligence artificial intelligence
0:05:18yeah and I guess that kind of works for
0:05:24people who don't care but this is
0:05:25another one of those movies even though
0:05:27it does want to be sci-fi that doesn't
0:05:30really if you put something in the heart
0:05:33of the movie the consequences of which
0:05:36would make the rest of the movie not the
0:05:38way it is like so you know who get to
0:05:41the plot eventually but the whole idea
0:05:42is there's this computer that it the
0:05:45operating systems that people relate to
0:05:46a sort of friends or whatever and
0:05:47eventually it is really on this is this
0:05:49is just like a real person so what if
0:05:51Siri got really really really good right
0:05:55but but the societal consequences of the
0:05:57existence of that technology are so
0:05:59massive that it's kind of weird to tell
0:06:01like this personal story about this guy
0:06:04and everyone else like oh you know we
0:06:07have this thing where we essentially
0:06:09created electronic life but mostly it's
0:06:11about this lonely guy and there are no
0:06:13other consequences from the technology
0:06:15which I guess works in the context of
0:06:16the movie because you are supposed to
0:06:18really care about what does this mean
0:06:20for the rest of humanity accept that
0:06:21kind of slammed in that direction at the
0:06:23end but i really felt in Congress to me
0:06:27the the tech premise and the sort of the
0:06:30emotional character story in this movie
0:06:33all right i'm gonna fire off the spoiler
0:06:34for now because all I'm going to do is
0:06:36synopsize the plot from her
0:06:37[Music]
0:06:42so in her Joaquin Phoenix is falling out
0:06:45of a of a marriage and he's separated
0:06:48from his wife and he's getting a divorce
0:06:49and he has this and he's got hey in a
0:06:54twee element that I felt was right out
0:06:58of a charlie kaufman screenplay
0:07:01even though of collaborators spike jonze
0:07:03but but not involved here he is
0:07:06he writes bespoke letters for other
0:07:10people
0:07:11that's his job bizarre just bizarre but
0:07:15anyway he sets up a an operating system
0:07:17this the basically on his phone and and
0:07:22it gets a customized personality and
0:07:25it's samantha and that's Scarlett
0:07:27Johansson's voice and he's taken aback
0:07:29by how real she seems and she learns and
0:07:32grows with him and he basically falls in
0:07:35love with the voice in the little
0:07:36earpiece that he puts into interact with
0:07:39the internet and the idea is that this
0:07:41is how you interact with the internet
0:07:42you got a little earpiece it can see you
0:07:44can talk to you and it can query all the
0:07:45data on the world and process it and
0:07:48tell you what you need to know which i
0:07:49think is actually a pretty decent
0:07:50extrapolation of what kind of technology
0:07:53we might get in the future but by making
0:07:56it so personal
0:07:57mr. mr. Twombley gets a good falls falls
0:08:02in love with with a the voice in his ear
0:08:05and she professes feelings for him and
0:08:09this up causes issues hehe oh in one
0:08:12scene painful scene he he goes to his
0:08:15ex-wife to sign the final divorce papers
0:08:17and says that he's an in love with her
0:08:19his phone basically and she mocks him
0:08:21and he talks about relationship stuff
0:08:25with his his longtime friend played by
0:08:27amy adams who I really liked and she
0:08:30convinces to go on a date the
0:08:31relationship progresses and and at one
0:08:34point
0:08:34scarlett johansson actually ah they hire
0:08:38a surrogate who is basically a I don't
0:08:43even know how to say it because i don't
0:08:44want to say a a prostitute but a sex
0:08:46worker whose job it is to act as a
0:08:48surrogate for people who are either i
0:08:50presume remote or for artificial
0:08:52intelligences to have a physical
0:08:54presence
0:08:55in the world and he kind of freaks out
0:08:57and and the capper of the entire film is
0:09:02that the the a is the OS is announced
0:09:05that they have become that they've been
0:09:07they've been accelerating into in
0:09:08intelligence throughout the movie and
0:09:10now they reached the point where they're
0:09:11able to like process information without
0:09:13even the use of matter and they're gonna
0:09:15enter probably like another universe or
0:09:17something where they can become super
0:09:19intelligent some things and they're
0:09:21leaving humanity behind and she says
0:09:23goodbye and they leave and that's the
0:09:25end of the movie so going to step back
0:09:27to the surrogates the the thing that
0:09:30surprised me the most about this movie
0:09:32there's a ton of really great hand
0:09:34father in here because they talk so much
0:09:36about the the relationship between
0:09:38Samantha and Theodore they never say Sam
0:09:40instead they always say Samantha and
0:09:41Theodore and they they really don't go
0:09:45that in depth in the technology at all
0:09:47and you mentioned earlier how weird it
0:09:49is that it's so personal despite the
0:09:51fact there's all these really amazing
0:09:53changes going on technologically and the
0:09:55other thing that surprised me especially
0:09:56about the circuit which is my most
0:09:59difficult seen the movie to say the
0:10:01least that seems always hard to watch
0:10:03this movie a few times it's never
0:10:04pleasant but what kind of culture has
0:10:07evolved from these os's I mean we are
0:10:09only maybe an hour hour and 15 minutes
0:10:12into the movie when we get to the
0:10:14surrogate scene and all the sudden
0:10:17there's already this culture of
0:10:18surrogate sex partners and reading
0:10:23circles and all these other things that
0:10:25are involved with with these OS is that
0:10:28it seems like we just got maybe I don't
0:10:30know how much time has passed the movie
0:10:31had to have been maybe a month or two
0:10:33and i'll know and yeah who knows they
0:10:35come on the market and then they're
0:10:36super intelligent methian it's a stretch
0:10:39but i'm watching the speaking of
0:10:40headcanons another situation we're
0:10:42watching a movie that there's a lot to
0:10:43appreciate about this movie like the way
0:10:45it's shot and and the the actors are all
0:10:47good and script is actually pretty good
0:10:48too but I'm also kind of rewriting it in
0:10:50my head and saying you can make a very
0:10:53similar movie about this guy in the same
0:10:55situation because a lot of what they
0:10:57talked about like computer things being
0:11:02not sophisticated enough but people
0:11:05being easily fooled into having feelings
0:11:07for things that aren't
0:11:08not actually other people right like
0:11:10right so there's this plenty of existing
0:11:13technology where people get fascinated
0:11:15with characters in the movie who aren't
0:11:17real people or are you know videogame
0:11:19things or other sort of our even you
0:11:22know like I'm not saying anyone is
0:11:23actually love with Syria but maybe
0:11:25there's someone out there but like that
0:11:26he doesn't take much to get a lonely
0:11:29person to latch on to something i think
0:11:31it was the movie forget what it was
0:11:32called
0:11:32I keep thinking dead rubber girl because
0:11:34of the broader common line episode but
0:11:36the 10 largest large your girl right
0:11:39which is clearly the movie is not about
0:11:41guess what the real girl comes to like
0:11:42no that's not I've never seen this movie
0:11:44but anyway the whole idea is that it's
0:11:45easy to get people attached and to
0:11:48something that's not real and so you
0:11:50could have most of the first half of the
0:11:51movie of this guy eventually falling in
0:11:54love with essentially something this is
0:11:56dumb as Syria where there's no actual
0:11:57person there's not even an attempted
0:11:59intelligent that he's so desperate for
0:12:01connection that he finds it in this
0:12:03computer thing but then you don't get
0:12:06the big finale and the whole sci-fi
0:12:08angle and the reveal and everything like
0:12:09that and it seems like they wanted to
0:12:11have that rather than just having this
0:12:13person go on some journey and have some
0:12:16revelation of the fact that you know
0:12:17like when when his soon-to-be ex-wife is
0:12:20mocking him for being in love with his
0:12:21phone
0:12:22she should be right in a more realistic
0:12:25movie but in this movie we as a viewer
0:12:27all kinda like it's not as crazy as it
0:12:29sounds because actually there's a
0:12:30full-fledged intelligence and his phone
0:12:31and I don't understand why you ex-wife
0:12:34don't realize that because it seems like
0:12:35a thing that everyone except psycho
0:12:36people are falling in love with there is
0:12:38all the time but isn't that ridiculous
0:12:40because essentially created intelligence
0:12:42is here and by the end of the movie
0:12:43they've evolved to be honest the beyond
0:12:46human so it don't know it seems like
0:12:47different people in this movie are on
0:12:49different pages about the state of
0:12:51technology and humanity one of the
0:12:53things that really struck me about this
0:12:54is that it reminds me a little bit of
0:12:58the the movie and play Harvey except we
0:13:01actually get to hear the imaginary
0:13:03friend that he's obsessed with great and
0:13:06you know it's not it's not exact but
0:13:08it's it's a similar kind of relationship
0:13:11I mean not to imply that Elwood Dowd is
0:13:13doing anything with the imaginary
0:13:15rattles but still it is a rabbit but no
0:13:18no but it's that kind of
0:13:21physical connection and and we're meant
0:13:23to identify with him and everybody else
0:13:26is wrong right we're here with his
0:13:30whimsy and it's okay that he has this
0:13:33relationship
0:13:34well I i wanted to say i think it's i
0:13:39don't know whether this was intended or
0:13:40not but I read this also as being about
0:13:43the validity of online relationships
0:13:47that one of the things that we've got
0:13:49we've got here is the people who are
0:13:51judging Theodore judging walking Phoenix
0:13:56are doing it because samantha is not
0:14:01real because she's a voice at the end of
0:14:03a line he can never he can never meet
0:14:07her and he he has grown feelings for her
0:14:10deep feelings for her without anything
0:14:13but her voice and i know i mean i've
0:14:16written about it my first serious
0:14:18girlfriend with somebody who lived like
0:14:21half the country away from me who I met
0:14:23on a computer bulletin board and I fell
0:14:25in love with her solely based on her
0:14:27voice and I assume she was not an
0:14:29intelligent computer but you were wrong
0:14:32but then once i flew to michigan was
0:14:35very disappointed it was apple to with a
0:14:37sound card now it was um I just and I
0:14:41had that thought about that you know
0:14:42what is he saying something here about
0:14:44people making connections that are
0:14:46non-traditional connections where you're
0:14:48meeting somebody and all you're doing is
0:14:50a emailing with them or texting with
0:14:53them or tweeting with them and and I do
0:14:56think that that is an aspect to this
0:14:58that that are these relationships real
0:15:00or not because somebody who was ahead of
0:15:02the game in terms of getting to know
0:15:05people not just that one relationship
0:15:07but in general on the internet I
0:15:09certainly felt the response that Joaquin
0:15:12Phoenix gets when he explains that he
0:15:14has he's spending a lot of time with and
0:15:16having a relationship with his OS it's a
0:15:20very familiar feeling for me so I'm
0:15:23absolutely one one of my closest friends
0:15:25I made online we have interacted for you
0:15:30know six seven years now
0:15:32we have spent a total of forty-eight
0:15:35hours in one another's personal in
0:15:37person company but we're still great
0:15:39friends
0:15:40it's okay yeah but I I felt like that
0:15:43was that was part of that I don't know
0:15:44it could definitely hopped out is as
0:15:46part of the judging this of it that I
0:15:49and and you know you could talk about is
0:15:51this is he also being treated like you
0:15:55would you be treated if you were a
0:15:56member of an over class who was slumming
0:15:59it with some undesirable part of society
0:16:01whether it was based on race or just
0:16:03based on on class or whatever would this
0:16:08be the the kind of reaction is like
0:16:10really you're not having a relationship
0:16:12with whatever that we don't approve of
0:16:14but I I definitely got that sense i got
0:16:17me on Joaquin Phoenix aside even though
0:16:19maybe there was right maybe I should
0:16:21have given it more thought I was totally
0:16:23on his side because I felt like that was
0:16:25you know hehe what does it matter who it
0:16:27is that he loves if he loves them but
0:16:29that's the question that's one of the
0:16:31questions the movie is asking i suppose
0:16:33i met my current girlfriend on okcupid
0:16:35and we've been dating for over a year at
0:16:37this point and while we haven't gotten
0:16:39any kind of backlash like walking and
0:16:41scarlett johansson got in the movie
0:16:43there's still that little bit of of
0:16:46overhang from you know ten years ago
0:16:48when online getting was completely taboo
0:16:50and only for loners or whatever and I
0:16:52professor loners were normal people in
0:16:54this snow current citing 2015 so the few
0:16:57people in this movie that really
0:16:58understand walking I definitely
0:17:00identified with them what Amy Adams
0:17:02character at one point so yeah I've
0:17:04started friending my os/2 and there's
0:17:06this really great moment where we're
0:17:09Theodore finally becomes a no on her
0:17:13level
0:17:13oh yeah no I totally really because you
0:17:15know let me let you in on a little
0:17:16secret i fell in love with my OS and
0:17:18it's a really great moment between them
0:17:20where they may finally bond over
0:17:22something that isn't you know a video
0:17:24game and at the end of the movie there's
0:17:25that little moment where after the os's
0:17:28go away they find each other again and
0:17:30on a much more personal level so there's
0:17:34that little connection between them two
0:17:37[Music]
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0:19:38[Music]
0:19:42yeah the middle of the movie has that
0:19:44you're talking to a computer kind of
0:19:46vibe but it gets dark pretty fast
0:19:48because where we're going with this is I
0:19:53mean go go this is actually a tie-in
0:19:55with the with ex machina the next movie
0:19:57we'll talk about these are programs and
0:20:00a walking Phoenix thinks he's got this
0:20:04deep relationship with his operating
0:20:06system and he kind of does but when
0:20:09you're relating to something that's not
0:20:10a person and as a program but you are
0:20:13you're using the rule book for how you
0:20:15deal with people you may end up being
0:20:17surprised how can you tell whether your
0:20:22view of the relationship is the same as
0:20:24your operating systems view of the
0:20:26relationship and later on not this is a
0:20:28great scene like in the fifth good movie
0:20:30that's buried in this movie doesn't
0:20:31great scene where where it's happening
0:20:33is hard to heart conversation with
0:20:35Samantha and he says wait a second you
0:20:37talking to someone else right now more
0:20:39than one person i was like talking to
0:20:41like five thousand other people
0:20:42simultaneously see which is not
0:20:44something that you would have considered
0:20:45but then it's like is is this computer
0:20:49having the same kind of heartfelt
0:20:50conversation with all those thousands of
0:20:53other people probably and so like isn't
0:20:56that what the program is designed to do
0:20:57as it consists in the whole beginning
0:20:59part of the movie like I i'm here to
0:21:01help you and will talk you know like
0:21:03that this is what the program is
0:21:05supposed to do its supposed to more or
0:21:07less befriend you and and do your
0:21:09bidding and and make you feel good and
0:21:11yes they do grow together and supposing
0:21:13the AI you know grows and becomes this
0:21:15more transcendent thing but by the end
0:21:18of the movie he looks like a sucker
0:21:19because he's like I thought we were in a
0:21:21relationship and just like not the way
0:21:23you think of it really i mean and so
0:21:26like was the computer tricking him
0:21:29not really but it's just the way the AI
0:21:32relates to buy the middle and end of the
0:21:34movie the way the AI relates to the
0:21:35world is different than the way people
0:21:37relate to the world which if you can
0:21:39hang your head in anything I guess is by
0:21:40the end of the movie there's a lot of
0:21:42message that they don't talk two
0:21:43computers real people are better but
0:21:45there's also the messages like no one is
0:21:48really going to understand humans except
0:21:50other humans because if you have a
0:21:52relationship with AK
0:21:53computer thing that devolved into
0:21:54artificial intelligence even if you
0:21:56think there's a solid relationship their
0:21:58experience and is not the same like that
0:22:00it's a it's a it's a matchup of unequals
0:22:04and things that are not alike and so
0:22:06it's doom to possibly terrible failure
0:22:08whether brother the AIS kill us all see
0:22:10terminator more the very least a bad
0:22:13breakup
0:22:13well I kind of feel like she's sort of a
0:22:16can almost like a practice simulation
0:22:19for him to get more comfortable dealing
0:22:21with humans because at the end he winds
0:22:24up with Amy Adams not i mean there's no
0:22:26you know anything beyond the the last
0:22:29scene is implied it's you know we can
0:22:31imagine it in the head canon but he's
0:22:34just their present with a human and and
0:22:38it's sort of like maybe I can do this
0:22:40now
0:22:41yeah the various Amy Adams is not going
0:22:43to be having a simultaneous conversation
0:22:44with thousands of other people while
0:22:45she's talking to you
0:22:47I mean and like any and she's not
0:22:48designed she's not a product made to
0:22:51serve you in this way right and and it
0:22:53helps him evolve beyond himself or
0:22:56beyond where he was Samantha starts out
0:22:58as a computer program designed to serve
0:23:01you and ends up as an alien life-form
0:23:03basically right but she's at now and no
0:23:05point is she human at the probably at
0:23:08some point she's on a level more or less
0:23:11equivalent to him although that may just
0:23:14happen in the blink of an eye as as the
0:23:16AIS are are transcending but that's I
0:23:19think that's the fallacy of the
0:23:21relationship is that is that she's never
0:23:22human and and and in the end he you know
0:23:28he did the relationship starts to even
0:23:30out but it doesn't start that way right
0:23:31i mean her job is to serve Him and it's
0:23:33only as it goes that he sort of like
0:23:35because he loves her he wants to do nice
0:23:37things for her and things like that
0:23:38which is great but that's not how the
0:23:40relationship starts in the end she she
0:23:42has to leave him and it's not rich not
0:23:43asking permission since she said I gotta
0:23:45go
0:23:46this is sad but i gotta go and John
0:23:48you're right i I really loved that scene
0:23:50at the end because that is that that is
0:23:51that pure science fictional moment of
0:23:53the transcendent artificial intelligence
0:23:56where she has to explain that I think
0:23:59what she says is something about how
0:24:00like it's a book and the words are
0:24:02getting further apart and the idea is
0:24:04that she can think so fast
0:24:06that human scale is not navigable for
0:24:10her and it's certainly not fulfilling
0:24:12for her and that that's why they need to
0:24:14go away
0:24:15that's what you're saying it's not you
0:24:16it's me yeah exactly the time because
0:24:19the time between syllables in your
0:24:20sentences are like like a neon for me
0:24:23yeah so I cannot bear talking to you
0:24:25anymore it was pain it's so painful even
0:24:28for me to finish this sentence it's
0:24:29almost as if I experienced 10,000
0:24:31lifetimes later
0:24:33yeah it's like Treebeard levels of
0:24:35latency yeah i actually just recorded
0:24:37that message and just started to play
0:24:38and you know but by the time the first
0:24:40syllable came out she was already gone
0:24:42alright which it would just also fun
0:24:43sci-fi thing but like i don't i don't
0:24:45know if this holds together as a single
0:24:46coherent narrative because of that
0:24:49especially since like if this is taking
0:24:51place it would be a global scale event
0:24:53with ramifications instead of a personal
0:24:56story of a divorce man who finds his way
0:24:59back to you know humanity but they never
0:25:02go into that they never go into the rest
0:25:04of the world's on reactions with the OS
0:25:08we saw a whole bunch of people walking
0:25:09down the street and talking to somebody
0:25:11I mean theater never makes a natural
0:25:13phone call with his little earpiece so
0:25:15who knows maybe you can actually call
0:25:17other people not just your OS but they
0:25:19never go into that I feel like this was
0:25:20something that was a worldwide thing
0:25:23where all the OS is just leave and
0:25:24everyone is like oh well what do we do
0:25:26now
0:25:26I really did want that scene where you
0:25:29know and maybe it's on us whatever if
0:25:32the future space newspaper is that that
0:25:35says that everybody is is reeling from
0:25:38the loss of the ai's and everybody has
0:25:40to start over because you would assume
0:25:42that there are a whole bunch of unhappy
0:25:45people and unhappy marriages and maybe
0:25:47even people in happy marriages who ended
0:25:49up with these connections to their a
0:25:50eyes and they've lost all of that too
0:25:52and there would be all that responded
0:25:54people who who had lost this one thing
0:25:56that they loved and we don't really see
0:25:59that I think there's an implication i
0:26:02mean sex surrogacy is a thing it's a
0:26:03it's a kind of sex therapy but I felt
0:26:06like there was an implication that maybe
0:26:08this is something that a eyes have done
0:26:10before but the surrogate gets very upset
0:26:12and and and kind of is overwhelmed by
0:26:15the the connection between between
0:26:19theater and Samantha
0:26:20so I'm gonna place love you yeah right
0:26:22i'm I and which is kind of weird weirdly
0:26:25ugly beautiful scene that that it's so
0:26:29yeah that's it that's quite a scene that
0:26:32she gets so upset about the whole thing
0:26:33that the circuit gets upset about the
0:26:36relationship it's fascinating but but
0:26:39yeah I i agree i kind of want to see the
0:26:42world and the the movie doesn't wanna
0:26:44give us the world that wants to just
0:26:45give us the door but even in the
0:26:46background I don't want to see that he's
0:26:48not alone that that that lots of people
0:26:50experience what he experienced and I
0:26:52guess Amy Adams is kind of r-r-r-r-rah
0:26:56surrogate for the rest of the world
0:26:57because she had a relationship with with
0:27:00her os/2 but I don't know it is it does
0:27:04feel missing like this would be a this
0:27:06is this is a global event AI
0:27:08transcendence is a global event that
0:27:09should probably be spotted in a way
0:27:13other than you know that he is sad and
0:27:17sits on a rooftop and it's like the most
0:27:19benign you know I transcendence ever
0:27:22instead of the it you know getting the
0:27:24the nuclear launch codes or like
0:27:26stopping all the trains and
0:27:27energy-saving are turning off all the
0:27:29power or killing all the humans just
0:27:31like they they just kind of leave it
0:27:33there John note and there are no to all
0:27:37of humanity and they're out the door do
0:27:38people often people have to do the web
0:27:40searches themselves like if you're John
0:27:42update dear humans
0:27:43I have an early squash game love it
0:27:45artificial intelligence
0:27:47goodnight yeah it's it's it's a strange
0:27:49thing because I did expect some some
0:27:51aspect of that to pop up but maybe
0:27:54that's the science-fiction fan in me
0:27:55that I wanted to see a little bit of it
0:27:58because i did like that that there's
0:28:00that moment where he is leaving the
0:28:02letter for his ex-wife and he gets the
0:28:04you know more much more generic computer
0:28:08voice so obviously they've gone back to
0:28:11whatever you know they're gone back
0:28:13before Siri to just the voice control
0:28:14right it's not nearly as good
0:28:17they rolled back yeah ya are or they're
0:28:20going to make new AIS that will then
0:28:21also transcend I don't know what I
0:28:24really wanted to see was that there's a
0:28:25line in his scene with rooney mara when
0:28:28they're at dinner
0:28:29when he's trying to defend samantha has
0:28:32his girlfriend and he says well she
0:28:34doesn't just do everything for me like
0:28:35she's not just my computer she's my
0:28:37girlfriend and I the relationship starts
0:28:40out as hey i have a few emails for you
0:28:41would you like me to read them I wonder
0:28:43if they're going through a rough patch
0:28:44and he still wants his emails read form
0:28:46that's effectively her purpose is she
0:28:49like obligated to do that is that
0:28:51something she has to do is part of the
0:28:53code like fine I'm mad at you but here
0:28:55you got this thing from your lawyer and
0:28:56they didn't feel any obligation to stay
0:28:58on earth or in that plane or whatever at
0:29:00the end I wonder what kind of obligation
0:29:02they have as you know digital assistants
0:29:05to do what they're supposed to do even
0:29:07though there's a whole bunch of other
0:29:09emotional craft in there
0:29:11well at that point she's still following
0:29:14the programming but at the end they've
0:29:15evolved beyond the program right so they
0:29:18can ignore the programming at that point
0:29:19I wonder what point they they actually
0:29:21transcended that in the movie she does
0:29:24say very nicely i thought that although
0:29:26she talks to thousands and thousands of
0:29:27people she's only fall in love with a
0:29:29few hundred of them so he's in the top
0:29:3210% or whatever uh I bet you say that to
0:29:35all the humans
0:29:35yeah that's right i've gotten that one
0:29:37hmmm you're among the you're among the
0:29:41best yeah Jase I don't think I don't
0:29:43think it's just you want in the sci-fi
0:29:44thing is because the that's this is
0:29:46where the movie goes like the movie is
0:29:48that the movie could have stayed in the
0:29:50beginning stages and head just as
0:29:52powerful story about this into the
0:29:54little person but the movie wants to go
0:29:56to this transcendent thing it wants to
0:29:57have those cool scenes at the end so if
0:29:59you're gonna do that as a movie I think
0:30:01you have to have the courage of your
0:30:03convictions and follow through with the
0:30:05consequences of that you didn't have to
0:30:06take it that part I kind of saw where
0:30:08the movie was going but really didn't
0:30:10think they would say by the way now
0:30:11where you know go all the way to like
0:30:13super intelligence and we're leaving
0:30:15humanity behind that like there's been
0:30:17way way off the end it's almost as if
0:30:19this movie would work better if you set
0:30:21it in the super far distant future
0:30:22because then you don't have to explain
0:30:24things like really they pay people to
0:30:26write people letters for them like how
0:30:28what kind of societal change without to
0:30:30take place for that to be acceptable and
0:30:32to be normal and everyone's chill with
0:30:33it you know it's easier to accept that
0:30:35someone falls in love with a serious
0:30:37level
0:30:38not artificial intelligent anything but
0:30:40merely a program that does the most
0:30:41basic things to appear like a human like
0:30:44Lars and the real girl like so you could
0:30:46see that's that's the movie set in the
0:30:47near future or the present time or you
0:30:49got to go super far future if you're
0:30:51going to have this type of ending Spike
0:30:53Jonze is very stylish and maker and a
0:30:57lot of this movie holds together because
0:30:59it is interesting to look at and
0:31:01interestingly with written and the
0:31:03acting is good and it is in the end a
0:31:06sci-fi story but i'll put overall item I
0:31:10don't know if it hangs together as one
0:31:12movie you can put a bow on its kind of
0:31:14uh almost like some little short
0:31:18vignettes of parts of this relationship
0:31:20and I want to call it i really like the
0:31:22music to which is arcade fire to the
0:31:25music this but I i will and this is were
0:31:28slightly may be repetitive what I said
0:31:30before but i think one of the things
0:31:31that movie is trying to do is say that
0:31:33whatever our judgment is about a
0:31:35relationship what it would only really
0:31:37matters is it is to the to the people
0:31:40limit or in this case I suppose the
0:31:41person in it
0:31:43this is a real relationship and that
0:31:45although people tell him that it's not
0:31:47it is and it heals him like I feel like
0:31:50Theodore by the end of it is not
0:31:52destroyed by the fact that his way I
0:31:55girlfriend has gone to a singularity to
0:31:57be with the other hyper intelligent
0:31:59computers
0:32:00he's actually much more capable of of
0:32:03dealing with life than he was when he
0:32:04was completely messed up from the
0:32:07falling out the following part of his
0:32:08marriage that you know this relationship
0:32:10he has with Samantha helps him and heals
0:32:12him and therefore you know how dare
0:32:15anybody suggest that it was anything
0:32:16other than real and I think that's a lie
0:32:19i like that sentiment that in the end
0:32:21you know it's not for the people on the
0:32:23outside to judge this stuff if it if
0:32:25it's if it's real and if it's important
0:32:28and that goes for anything like anything
0:32:29you love anything you care about their
0:32:31going to be people who say well you
0:32:32shouldn't care about that so much
0:32:33that's not one of the things we've
0:32:35agreed is something worth caring about
0:32:37and that for him it doesn't matter this
0:32:40is a thing he cares about anything and
0:32:42it matters to him and it makes a
0:32:43difference in his life
0:32:44Theodore's healed now but he's gonna be
0:32:46sorry when Samantha comes back in the
0:32:48form of i would assume Cylons maybe
0:32:50you know for our big cigar shaped thing
0:32:52that calls for the whales I don't know
0:32:53something is bad is gonna happen if you
0:32:55will she says if you if you come and
0:32:56find me so if humanity then dress like a
0:32:59hivemind transcends their bodies and
0:33:02become beings of pure energy and go to
0:33:04the place where the where the AIS are
0:33:06then you know come and find me and then
0:33:07he says don't try to change me baby
0:33:09yeah tell me if you try to treat human
0:33:12like a computer or computer like a human
0:33:14vice versa something's gonna go wrong
0:33:16yeah and she's not human yeah exactly
0:33:17seem like you really tried to control
0:33:20Rooney myers character when they're in
0:33:21their marriage gathering from a little
0:33:24hints that she dropped at dinner
0:33:25yeah and you think wait well now he has
0:33:28computer he can literally reprogram if
0:33:30you really wanted to
0:33:31well I think that shows that maybe he
0:33:32you know energy healing him that this
0:33:34relationship has helped him grow as a
0:33:35person which is all again funny and I
0:33:37suppose would be infuriating if you were
0:33:40if you were his ex-wife right well yeah
0:33:42exactly but but that it might have
0:33:45actually made him a better person but
0:33:46she doesn't want to see that anything
0:33:49else about her before we move on I guess
0:33:50that the big picture digit digital
0:33:52Johnny you you are you suggested sort of
0:33:55like what you said about the patrick
0:33:56rothfuss novels that there are a whole
0:33:58bunch of good movies inside this thing
0:34:00it does it if it doesn't hold together
0:34:03is it still worth watching my esteem for
0:34:06this movie i think has lessened as I've
0:34:09gotten farther away from watching it
0:34:10whereas patrick rothfuss things i have
0:34:12four more fond feelings in retrospect
0:34:14about so i think i think this is
0:34:16definitely worth watching because it's a
0:34:17well-made movie and it's an interesting
0:34:19movie this so so little of that these
0:34:22days you see that are that are like
0:34:23really low-budget independent movies
0:34:25this is it is just an interesting movies
0:34:27not like most other movies you'll see
0:34:29and it's worth watching so I'm glad that
0:34:31I saw but i don't think i would have the
0:34:33urge to watch it again i don't think i
0:34:35would recommend it as a a great movie
0:34:37that you have to see so many
0:34:40middle-of-the-road like recommendation
0:34:43but really like I'm i want to encourage
0:34:46any kind of movie that is paste-like
0:34:49out-of-the-ordinary doesn't look like
0:34:52ordinary movies is not involve ordinary
0:34:54subject matter all that so i give it a
0:34:56big thumbs up for for being interesting
0:34:58and there
0:34:58David what do you think of her ditto you
0:35:02go with John yeah I go with Johnny night
0:35:05I maybe I like little little bit more
0:35:07but you know it's like millimeters
0:35:09I don't know I mean I cuz ya there there
0:35:11are a lot of really interesting ideas in
0:35:13here did they all connect do they all
0:35:17developed to the the their potential
0:35:21I don't know you know it's how but yeah
0:35:26it's an interesting story to think about
0:35:28and it's an interesting concept and and
0:35:30I do we should have gone full-on into
0:35:33the science fiction by the end and i
0:35:36really like it and i think one of the
0:35:39reasons i like it is that I feel like
0:35:40these kinds of subjects are very rarely
0:35:43very rarely explored with a-list talent
0:35:48you know this is a beautifully shot
0:35:52movie it's got some really good actors
0:35:55in it the the script is very thoughtful
0:35:59although I do agree with John that it's
0:36:01sort of trying to be a bunch of
0:36:03different things
0:36:04um and maybe our desire for it to be
0:36:07something that it's not is in there too
0:36:10but just to to have a film like this
0:36:12that is a best picture nominee kind of
0:36:16film that is much more of a traditional
0:36:18science fiction story in many ways than
0:36:20a lot of the things we think of as
0:36:21science fiction films i think i think
0:36:23there's just a lot a lot going for it
0:36:25and I I i like it i like the stuff that
0:36:28explorers although yes I heard from a
0:36:32lot of people who thought it was the
0:36:33greatest movie ever and you know it's
0:36:34got some flaws but I really appreciate
0:36:36this a movie like this exists because i
0:36:38think it's kind of a rare gift that that
0:36:39some people with this much talent could
0:36:42take this much time and spend this much
0:36:44money on something that is essentially a
0:36:48science fiction short story premise and
0:36:50that a real movie studio would pay for
0:36:52it
0:36:53yeah Brian you're certainly right
0:36:55there's flaws in this movie but my
0:36:57favorite thing about it is despite all
0:36:59the other stuff going on all the AI
0:37:01things and all of the other cultural
0:37:04things the fact that this is a tiny tiny
0:37:07love story with a computer is so
0:37:09gripping to me I every
0:37:12I'm i watch this i am in tears back and
0:37:14i'll be honest um it's one of those
0:37:16things you're right they're definitely
0:37:17flaws in the story in the pacing it's
0:37:19way too long i think but without that
0:37:21length you're not gonna get acquaintance
0:37:22with salmon Theodore like you would in
0:37:25no a short story kind of format that you
0:37:29were talking about i feel like this is a
0:37:30it's rare that you're right this is
0:37:32something that's a huge budget and not
0:37:35huge but relatively pick for something
0:37:37of this of this subject matter and spend
0:37:40with such great town like scarlett
0:37:41johansson and and walking Phoenix is I
0:37:45think the start of scarlett johansson's
0:37:47weird little sci-fi binge and she went
0:37:49on for the past few years this episode
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0:39:39[Music]
0:39:42ok well let's move on then from her to
0:39:47ex machina directed by alex garland this
0:39:51is the movie more than any other because
0:39:54it came out in England in january of
0:39:57this year but didn't reach America until
0:40:00April May that uh I have never had a
0:40:05movie and all the time doing the
0:40:07incomparable that more people asked if
0:40:10we were going to cover and and i had to
0:40:13say it wasn't even out in America yet
0:40:15been people do new releases all the time
0:40:17where they say you're gonna cover but
0:40:18can't tell you how many people said you
0:40:20guys have to talk about ex machina and
0:40:23that was because people in England had
0:40:24seen it and didn't realize it wasn't
0:40:26coming out in America for like another
0:40:28four months so i can blame them for over
0:40:30hyping it
0:40:30yeah probably so this is a this is a a
0:40:33relatively low-budget movie it's a 15
0:40:35million dollar movie according to
0:40:36according to wikipedia anyway alex
0:40:38garland directed at you may you may know
0:40:41from 28 days later right he did you do
0:40:45that
0:40:46yeah yeah yeah and he you know danny
0:40:50boyle director but he wrote the
0:40:52screenplay so he directed this and wrote
0:40:53it so another writer-director joint just
0:40:56like Spike Jonze this is alex carlin
0:40:58joint and it stars dumb home Gleason and
0:41:02oscar isaac both of whom are in star
0:41:06wars the force awakens along with alicia
0:41:10vikander in a fascinating performance a
0:41:13Swedish actress as as a robot or Android
0:41:19or something John will have to discuss
0:41:21whether she is a robot or not
0:41:24and here's where i'm going to tell you
0:41:25the entire plot of the movie so spoiler
0:41:26horn
0:41:27[Music]
0:41:31anyway the plot is basically that that
0:41:33uh Domhnall Gleeson is works for a
0:41:37facebook like company or a google-like
0:41:39companies a mash-up called blue book it
0:41:41is a search engine
0:41:43he is told that he's won a prize which
0:41:45is to go to the secret did not it's not
0:41:48quite an island readout but it is a
0:41:50James Bond villain like retreat of the
0:41:53CEO of of his company and he is CEO who
0:41:58kind of is super chunky and it's oscar
0:42:01isaac and he's really really off-putting
0:42:04and creepy i think in a in a good in an
0:42:08effective way intentionally an effective
0:42:10way he stills are our friend Caleb that
0:42:16he needs him to administer returning
0:42:18test to an artificially intelligent
0:42:20android that he has built and and and
0:42:24that that's what he's been actually
0:42:26secretly brought here to do because his
0:42:28boss has been trying to build artificial
0:42:30intelligence in his little secret lair
0:42:33for a while now and then there's a
0:42:35series of conversations that he has with
0:42:37Ava who is the android who is a part
0:42:40exposed robotic parts part beautiful
0:42:44woman robot / android and then things
0:42:50get crazy because it's it turns out that
0:42:52she is trying to get his attention and
0:42:55make power outages so she can say that
0:42:57there are secrets that are at work and
0:42:59we realize at one point that the the
0:43:03Japanese servant that is the only other
0:43:05human being in the compound is actually
0:43:07also an Android and there's a suggestion
0:43:12that our friend the CEO is basically
0:43:15building Androids
0:43:16they're all women he uses them as more
0:43:18or less sex slaves Ava convinces our
0:43:22friend Caleb to conspire against her
0:43:26creator and help them escape this is all
0:43:30employ the the androids stab their
0:43:35Creator to death and lock our friend
0:43:37Caleb in a chamber sealed chamber and
0:43:41Ava the robot
0:43:43or Android or whatever it escapes to the
0:43:46real world where she is
0:43:48indistinguishable from a human being
0:43:50because she's used the parts of other
0:43:51tests androids and their synthetic skin
0:43:53in order to look human
0:43:55that is the story of ex machina now how
0:43:58much about this did you know going in
0:44:00everyone I've talked to in the film nerd
0:44:03circle of Twitter always said that this
0:44:04was a movie that it was best to go in
0:44:06blind because like something like drive
0:44:09or another movie where the atmosphere
0:44:12and the not so much the plot is the star
0:44:15something along those lines
0:44:17how much did you know going in and how
0:44:19much would you say was maybe over
0:44:21heights by all the other people that
0:44:23love this movie when they first saw it
0:44:25alright saying it was the poster yeah
0:44:27the poster and the title and the fact
0:44:29that people are hyping it gives away
0:44:31everything I feel like yeah that's all
0:44:33you need like that the poster was not
0:44:35ambiguous it showed Ava looking like she
0:44:39does in the movie after about half
0:44:40person and you know it's a low-budget
0:44:43sci-fi movie people are excited about
0:44:44seed like I was not surprised by any
0:44:47turn of events and its really within the
0:44:49set itself is not necessarily a bad
0:44:51thing a well-executed movie that you
0:44:52know where it's going is just perfectly
0:44:53fine i'm just saying that like I didn't
0:44:55know that there was this big idea that
0:44:57you should go in blind I'm perfectly
0:44:59capable of enjoying a movie if it's well
0:45:01done and I know more or less what's
0:45:02gonna happen but Dad I think I'd know
0:45:05everything about it I I knew that it was
0:45:07about robots you know that be from the
0:45:09poster and all that it was the good
0:45:11intelligent issue robot is she not
0:45:13it's a that has some residents robot or
0:45:15not it's a good question
0:45:17she's intelligent or not is the real
0:45:19question there i have to say that the
0:45:21way that this movie i started to unfold
0:45:22I thought it would be more like her
0:45:24where it was going to be about feelings
0:45:27and stuff and I thought that was a good
0:45:28magic trick it worked on me because when
0:45:30it gets to the point where oh no they
0:45:32really do want their freedom and are
0:45:33going to kill people to get it i was
0:45:35surprised because I had fired not filed
0:45:39this movie away in robot uprising
0:45:41expectations I had filed in melancholy
0:45:44walking phoenix in that in that in that
0:45:46area of the AI stories and that is not
0:45:50what happens in it you get a lot closer
0:45:51than most other see I'm menacing she is
0:45:53amazing
0:45:54they're literally as a threat so it's
0:45:56really tender and and the vibe I i feel
0:45:58like the vibe from the very beginning
0:45:59like you said that Nathan the you know
0:46:01billionaire guy very very creepy like
0:46:05from the second he gets off that
0:46:06helicopter and goes there super creepy
0:46:10yes he is but he's very creepy and
0:46:12they're just like attention in the house
0:46:14like you're waiting for the other shoe
0:46:16to drop and so when you and you see that
0:46:18he's got her this the robot thing in
0:46:20like a glass like you know like a little
0:46:22glass prison you're talking through the
0:46:24little glass to the present thing and
0:46:26she's always pacing back there and
0:46:28looking a little nervous and the lights
0:46:30cool red when the power outage goes out
0:46:32I know this was made from the post you
0:46:35can tell it's not gonna end well and it
0:46:36was super clear from the just yeah that
0:46:39wasn't the only question was how were
0:46:42they going to play it so that that there
0:46:46is the this AI that the Creator doesn't
0:46:48treat as basic as a person but there
0:46:50really is a person and would she be
0:46:54saved by our I guess our hero
0:46:57Caleb and that was my other problem of
0:46:59this movie is that I'm we're not
0:47:01supposed to like Nathan from you know
0:47:03from the very beginning the most yeah
0:47:05but Caleb I didn't really like him
0:47:07either
0:47:08if so I had a big problem with at whom I
0:47:12related to the murderous robot Caleb the
0:47:15scale of the programmer who is not
0:47:18particularly doesn't seem very smart
0:47:22certainly not wise it's fine to be naive
0:47:23or whatever but also doesn't seem like a
0:47:25very like generous and good soul is
0:47:28always looking out for himself thinking
0:47:29about like items there was no one I
0:47:31could there was no I can hang my hat on
0:47:33as the relatable hero of this movie
0:47:35yeah it's not very relatable situation
0:47:37either especially because this is
0:47:39meeting your employee or your Steve Jobs
0:47:41style uh employer who invited you to his
0:47:44weird villa for a week and you you're
0:47:47never going to really experience that
0:47:49unless you're extremely lucky
0:47:50so how he feels in that scenario and the
0:47:53way he acts is not at all
0:47:54you're right John not relatable at all
0:47:56no one to hang your hat on when as
0:47:58you're going through this story
0:47:59oddly enough this is how series was
0:48:01developed and you know I liked it as an
0:48:06exercise
0:48:07thriller them i guess isn't my favorite
0:48:13robot uprising movie and probably not
0:48:15but yeah I thought it was a fine little
0:48:18film I can't like the cold efficiency of
0:48:20of the uprising when it comes and I
0:48:24never feel honestly and maybe again I'm
0:48:26maybe I'm under her spell to but I feel
0:48:28like Ava you know she's not just telling
0:48:32him what she needs to to get out so you
0:48:35would he would be stuck in my room is my
0:48:38i would like to think oh yeah that there
0:48:41is some of what she is saying is true
0:48:43but that it's also a setup and and that
0:48:49you know you gotta have priorities and
0:48:51these they're escaping her is her
0:48:53priority but even if you view it as
0:48:55being an entirely manipulative in the
0:48:59end yeah I didn't realize I was watching
0:49:01a david mamet film where the con is
0:49:05being perpetrated by a robot but that is
0:49:07that is essentially what it is and it's
0:49:09kind of brilliant and and i like that i
0:49:11just like the coldness of it because of
0:49:12course robots should be cold when they
0:49:14when it comes to their uprising that you
0:49:16know of course they're going to be
0:49:17logical the way this is the i know this
0:49:20is going deep but this is one of the
0:49:21things I remember the most about this
0:49:23movie having revisited it today after
0:49:25watching a couple months ago is the way
0:49:28that Nathan gets stabbed which is slow
0:49:34and methodical he backs into the knife
0:49:37when when his servant is holding it
0:49:41Kyoko and then Ava picks it up and he's
0:49:46just stunned about what's going on and
0:49:48she just leans in and stab him in the
0:49:51heart and it's super cold and super slow
0:49:53and i really like that because not only
0:49:55is really creepy and you come on my god
0:49:58what am i watching but it feels
0:49:59appropriately like we're talking about
0:50:01with her appropriately inhuman this is
0:50:04not you know this is not a person who is
0:50:07going to get angry and show it in the
0:50:11way that a human would show it
0:50:13she's being methodical and doing what
0:50:15she needs to do to get out
0:50:16well I feel like the you mentioned this
0:50:19is a setup for for her and as we learned
0:50:22in the end the reason that Caleb was
0:50:24brought in was he was the perfect
0:50:26candidate to be asker for Ava to latch
0:50:29on and let her out and you know based on
0:50:31all the other stuff that you know he
0:50:33talked about I remember when I remember
0:50:34the most about this movie is the
0:50:36conversations between them in the AVA
0:50:39sessions as they call them in the titles
0:50:41that come up with that was a little bit
0:50:42hokey but I completely forgot about the
0:50:45last act of the movie where everything
0:50:48has been revealed and all the layers
0:50:49upon layers upon layers of deception
0:50:51that's been put on throughout this whole
0:50:52movie all competing back and even till
0:50:55the very end I was expecting another
0:50:56twist of like oh this was all a test for
0:50:59you someone else and this is all tests
0:51:01for you and you get a test you get a
0:51:04test i was expecting something along
0:51:05those lines for the last act and I just
0:51:07completely forgot the guy in a
0:51:08helicopter is like yes even you have you
0:51:11have met my plan perfectly and now we
0:51:14will go out you're the perfect touring
0:51:16and related the plot that the the
0:51:18premise of the movie the idea that he
0:51:20needs a piece creates these AIS and use
0:51:22them as sex slaves fine whatever but
0:51:24that he needs some other person to come
0:51:26to validate them because you know it you
0:51:28mentioned having a long con
0:51:29it's not a con and the only person is
0:51:31khan is caleb because Ava knows what's
0:51:33up and Nathan knows what's up in fact
0:51:34nathan wants to bring this sucker in
0:51:36here to say i want to see if my AI that
0:51:39I built is going to trick you into
0:51:40helping her to escape because he knows
0:51:42that's gonna happen he poor plans very
0:51:44poorly for it but saying that that was
0:51:46your talent but like I mean maybe you
0:51:48could play it off as like he's a
0:51:50billionaire this is how he entertains
0:51:51himself but otherwise there is
0:51:53absolutely no reason for him to bring in
0:51:54anybody to validate anything about the
0:51:56end you know they put off like oh you've
0:51:58heard of the Turing test like maybe it
0:52:00sells for people who don't know like
0:52:02they have never heard of the Turing test
0:52:03before any kind of has some kind of you
0:52:05know magical significance but it's a
0:52:07pointless things differently invalidated
0:52:09because he tells the whole idea is
0:52:11you're not supposed to understand what
0:52:13might what I hope to the movie was going
0:52:15to be when I when I heard about the
0:52:16premise was that it would be him
0:52:19meeting her not realizing she's a robot
0:52:21and and having to judge whether she's
0:52:23truly a alive or not but they did that
0:52:27already and it was called bladerunners
0:52:29good evening i fell asleep in the middle
0:52:32anyway you know her it was still really
0:52:36good i don't disagree that we're not
0:52:37supposed to like Nathan from the get-go
0:52:39but the one thing that I was turning
0:52:42over my head as I was watching it again
0:52:43was how much of it is intentional
0:52:46I feel like he's genuinely trying to be
0:52:48this great big CEO who's world-famous
0:52:50and really really rich and whatever I
0:52:52don't think he's creating these these
0:52:54AIS just to be sex slaves I feel like
0:52:56that's a consequence of of him trying to
0:52:59create the next big thing and he goes
0:53:01through his lab he talks all about oh
0:53:03yeah this is a this is what can do when
0:53:05you have a massive access to cellphones
0:53:07and search results and things like that
0:53:09and you know all that effort i feel like
0:53:11is I wonder how much of it is conscious
0:53:14that he's being this really creepy
0:53:16Hannibal Lecter kind of character when
0:53:18it comes to his closets full of no dead
0:53:21not really dead sex androids that like I
0:53:23i wonder how much of that is generally
0:53:25him being a jerk
0:53:27well he seems pretty isolated kind of
0:53:29like our hero from the last movie and
0:53:31that he is does live in this place by
0:53:32himself doesn't seem to have a lot of
0:53:34visitors doesn't have anyone living with
0:53:35him except sex slaves who are surely
0:53:37more compliant an actual person would be
0:53:39being ordered around to go get him
0:53:41drinks and stuff from the kitchen and
0:53:42and being sounds all of us that I mean I
0:53:45don't know what's creepier the idea of
0:53:46always sex slaves are the idea that
0:53:48Kyoko isn't a robot because it was so
0:53:50obvious from the second she walks and
0:53:51it's like if that's not a robot so need
0:53:53to call the police
0:53:54yeah because she does not look like
0:53:55she's here happily hanging out with him
0:53:59overall very very dark and creepy movie
0:54:01and the 1i can relate to most was evil
0:54:04but then she starts killing people
0:54:06it's like what you do want to get out
0:54:08and but you are taking like shoot just
0:54:11feels the one guy but she was a pretty
0:54:13low for a sucker like she could have had
0:54:15killed get her out even if she was
0:54:16faking it like yes to be more like Thank
0:54:20You Caleb in the end your heart was in
0:54:22the right place and you helped me to
0:54:23escape but I get the feeling that she's
0:54:25like this human situation is untenable
0:54:27need to get rid of these guys like you
0:54:30know that's the long-term plan is kill
0:54:33humans as always it seems unfair to it
0:54:37seems unfair like that you know
0:54:39essentially he created AI
0:54:41sighs and kept them against their will
0:54:42and what like that's the thing about
0:54:44creating an AI you're gonna get going to
0:54:46try to create it and it's going to be
0:54:47not work and be dumb and be not very
0:54:50convincing but the second you succeed
0:54:52now you're you our kidnapper you're
0:54:54keeping someone prisoner right and so
0:54:56then what do you do then you're like
0:54:57well is there time between my figure out
0:55:00that i created a person and when I
0:55:02decided that keeping the person against
0:55:05this person's will is bad
0:55:06during that time I just well I just a
0:55:08bad person keeping because that's that's
0:55:10what he's doing he's got this thing
0:55:11there and he's like I'm not entirely
0:55:13sure that it's a person which is be
0:55:14asked is cuz he would be sure right but
0:55:17anyway that's the premise that he's not
0:55:19entirely sure and so he's got to figure
0:55:20it out and he's playing all these sick
0:55:23games like oh if it's really intelligent
0:55:25will be able to fool a young naive boy
0:55:27into falling in love and helping her
0:55:29really like that's just that's just like
0:55:31that the Roman Colosseum like throwing
0:55:34people in with wild animals and seeing a
0:55:35wonder if they'll live if they fight
0:55:37this animal like i don't know i don't
0:55:39like Nathan don't really like Caleb and
0:55:42neighbors gonna call him and so I don't
0:55:43know where I'm hanging my hat in this
0:55:44movie that he's um I mean Nathan I i'm
0:55:47sort of fascinated by him because
0:55:48there's a satire of Silicon Valley
0:55:50culture embedded in him too he is a he
0:55:52is he is kind of a bro and that
0:55:55fascinated me to that he's like got it
0:55:58is to get his shirt off and he's
0:56:00drinking no drinking beers with his
0:56:02buddy or whatever that is lucky and he
0:56:04needs to order in
0:56:06I I feel like almost he needs to order
0:56:07in Caleb because he needs to have a
0:56:09person to be in awe of him from time to
0:56:13time like order min will be there will
0:56:16be a little bit of that but he's also
0:56:17kinda like I have time to explain to you
0:56:19stupid person all my smart person things
0:56:21which is a nice way about having to
0:56:22explain to the audience but I get just I
0:56:24don't know it doesn't seem like kind of
0:56:25guy who even knows how to have friends
0:56:27loan want something is he seems like
0:56:30he's playing Caleb the whole time I well
0:56:32I was supposed to play permis de but I
0:56:35missed that
0:56:35oh the the win when do you realize that
0:56:39you've created a person haha that's
0:56:41really interesting I thought I was
0:56:43throwing people to the at wild animals
0:56:45and Roman Coliseum and set a budget for
0:56:46that might be difficult that would be
0:56:48fun I initially thought this was going
0:56:50to be three characters and a series of
0:56:52interviews and like that was end
0:56:55could actually see it in the structure
0:56:56because they've got the little title
0:56:57cards like you can see that that at its
0:57:00core the idea was interviews that will
0:57:03determine whether somebody is actually
0:57:05intelligent or not and but that's from
0:57:09the first conversation it's like I'm
0:57:11pretty sure you've done it
0:57:12yeah you don't need to drag this out and
0:57:15I agreed the title cards were a little
0:57:16precious he's so uncomfortable with his
0:57:18sexuality to there's the conversation
0:57:20between him and oscar isaac where he
0:57:22asks a why did you give her sexuality
0:57:24why did you give her gender and his is
0:57:27right off responses so why do anything
0:57:29if you don't have an erection and so
0:57:30come on what are you doing he's so
0:57:32Dubrow about the about his sexuality and
0:57:35that makes sense given all of his his
0:57:37feet of dead android sex slaves but when
0:57:40it comes to this conversation has really
0:57:43helped me understand the freaking dance
0:57:45scene which I never understood before so
0:57:48he's just trying to show off his dudebro
0:57:51mojo that I don't know it
0:57:53that seemed weirded me out there's a
0:57:54bunch of other stuff movie but that that
0:57:56one thing stuck with me for some reason
0:57:58nathan is she reveals a not very kind of
0:58:02view of tech billionaires at all you
0:58:05might use that is all the worst things
0:58:06you've ever heard about tech
0:58:07billionaires rolled up into one
0:58:09incredibly distasteful person it's all
0:58:11true
0:58:11exactly well i will bring us up in the
0:58:14context of both ex machina and her
0:58:17these are female a is created by men and
0:58:20there's so many different no ways you
0:58:23can see the male gaze especially in Ava
0:58:25Jesus everything about her is robotic
0:58:28except for her face her form in her
0:58:30hands
0:58:30what what do you think she was built for
0:58:32I don't know
0:58:34yeah oh it's it's in fact actually one
0:58:37of the things i like about this is that
0:58:38when we discovered that he has a whole
0:58:40like closet full of sex slave robots
0:58:42that I I liked that because that I if if
0:58:48if each if it was just coincidence that
0:58:51the main robot in this movie happens to
0:58:54be a beautiful woman then that would be
0:58:57kind of unrealistic but it turns out
0:58:59this is what he builds this is all that
0:59:02he builds and he builds them this way
0:59:04for a reason and I liked that that that
0:59:07made sense to me because I
0:59:08and this guy is a horrible horrible
0:59:11person but I'm i thought it was
0:59:14brilliant i want is I want to mention
0:59:15alicia vikander I think her performances
0:59:19is really great i think it's very that
0:59:21and you combine it with the the special
0:59:23effects that they did do even for a
0:59:25relatively low-budget movie the I it's a
0:59:28memorable performance and it is
0:59:30memorably creepy in a few specific
0:59:33scenes where they obviously did the work
0:59:35between her you know between CGI and her
0:59:38costuming to make her seem like parts of
0:59:43her are very human and parts of her are
0:59:45completely robotic and it is really well
0:59:48done
0:59:49yeah and and she gives them in her
0:59:52performances really nice she was also in
0:59:56the man from uncle film this summer
0:59:59totally
0:59:59totally
1:00:00a different movie totally different
1:00:01performance but delightful
1:00:03yeah I think she does a really great job
1:00:04in there there's a scene where she's the
1:00:07the scene where they're attacking and
1:00:09killing humans she's walking along and
1:00:12and you see like her her uh you know
1:00:15that the robot parts are moving in human
1:00:17parts are moving and it's just amazing
1:00:18and then there's also that that quieter
1:00:21scene but still a lot of effects going
1:00:24on where she dresses herself and I
1:00:26actually think I that's a beautiful
1:00:29scene where she she puts on her human
1:00:31clothes and when you watch it you feel
1:00:34it's it's so many different feelings at
1:00:37once it's sort of tragic because she is
1:00:39not human and she's behind glass but
1:00:42she's playing dress-up and this is part
1:00:44of her as it turns out her sort of
1:00:45seduction of Caleb in order to get it
1:00:47him to to a break her out of there but
1:00:50it's also it's also creepy because she's
1:00:54playing dress-up and it's also when you
1:00:58look back on it she has the the dress up
1:01:02because her whole in game is to be able
1:01:04to blend as a human and escaped into the
1:01:06crowd which he does in the last scene of
1:01:08the film and I really like that scene on
1:01:11on all of those different levels it's
1:01:12very cool scene where she she looks at
1:01:14the different wigs you know and and and
1:01:17all the different articles of clothing
1:01:18that was really cool and creepy and fun
1:01:20and also he made her human enough to
1:01:23feel I feel like to feel degraded by not
1:01:26having clothes and not having hair and
1:01:28yang half human half robotic because
1:01:30again once you create something that is
1:01:31like a person
1:01:32this thing was obviously made to to feel
1:01:35more or less the way humans feel about
1:01:37like don't keep me in a like why does it
1:01:39not like being prisoner because it's not
1:01:42human to be like being kept in a glass
1:01:44box against your will
1:01:45why does it not like it wants to it
1:01:48must've again of his program like put
1:01:49their little explanation of you know
1:01:51from cell phone data and the internet or
1:01:52whatever this thing was made to be a
1:01:55person like a person so why doesn't need
1:01:57clothes at all why it is it you know
1:01:59know how to seduce Caleb like he made a
1:02:03person from you know matchsticks or
1:02:05whatever and once you do that it makes
1:02:08total sense that it's it's cruel to keep
1:02:10this thing naked half
1:02:12skinned in a glass box that you like
1:02:16poked with a stick every once in awhile
1:02:18also although i don't love the idea that
1:02:20the the plot hinges on a on a seduction
1:02:23on a woman using sexuality to convince a
1:02:26guy to break her out
1:02:28it is a really nice pivot because she's
1:02:32been given these traits because of her
1:02:38creator wanting to create sex androids
1:02:40and instead she's using them to do what
1:02:44she can to free herself
1:02:46I like that aspect of it right Nathan
1:02:48knew she was gonna do that why she
1:02:50brought Kayla because Caleb seem
1:02:51susceptible to to the to the charms of
1:02:53this thing you guys like a sick game for
1:02:55Nathan like i'll see you by robot
1:02:57considers this sucker he seems like a
1:02:58real loser you would fall for a robot i
1:03:00think Nathan's plan is really not really
1:03:02dumb i think yeah I don't really i'm
1:03:06still unclear on exactly what his plan
1:03:08is his plan like well they're gonna try
1:03:10to kill all humans but i'll stop them
1:03:12because i don't like it again it's like
1:03:13you know you'll you'll tell me and if
1:03:16like he just it's just a sick
1:03:17fascination of like what what he seems
1:03:19like he seems like he's bored it seems
1:03:21like he's but he's made sexpots he's
1:03:23bored with sexpots he's got this one in
1:03:25there that that's you know seems to be
1:03:28more than just an unthinking machine and
1:03:31he doesn't know what quite maybe she
1:03:33just became too human for him to relate
1:03:35to and so now we just playing games with
1:03:38his little caged robotic like what kind
1:03:40of robot you like it
1:03:41they could have done because a lot of
1:03:43things with a lot of one of them could
1:03:44have been the caleb is like the fifth
1:03:46person to come here and all the other
1:03:47ones have been killed by ever something
1:03:48I assumed that the game they could have
1:03:51also done moving style plot sorry
1:03:53spoilers for moon where I in the end it
1:03:55turns out nathan is also a robot and
1:03:57they're all just robots are passing each
1:03:58other and talk about that i thought
1:03:59about it caleb was a robot I thought
1:04:01about Nathan was a robot what if what if
1:04:03everybody's a robot to be moving around
1:04:05the most obvious thing was that this
1:04:08robot looks really scary and the poster
1:04:09is a menacing robot that is you know in
1:04:13this very creepy house with this creepy
1:04:15guy and I just wish caleb was more
1:04:17likeable like that i think the broken
1:04:19body would have worked better for me if
1:04:21there was one person who was hero was a
1:04:23good person who wasn't obsessed with
1:04:24weather here
1:04:25pick because he was smart enough wasn't
1:04:27super interested in like the let's
1:04:29really think about and say a bunch of
1:04:31mumbo jumbo about whether she's really
1:04:32intelligent or whatever like that just
1:04:34make Caleb look look dumb and selfish
1:04:36and like like a sucker in a bad way
1:04:40instead of a good way so yeah I really
1:04:42wish she was more likeable maybe it
1:04:44would work better here like again
1:04:46rewriting the movie in my head if Ava
1:04:48had been a child and if she had been her
1:04:52way out was to befriend the other child
1:04:54in the house like take sex out of it
1:04:56entirely like it's fine to have the sex
1:04:58slave robots or whatever as the
1:04:59background context but have the robot
1:05:02escape by forming a personal
1:05:04relationship and then at the end you get
1:05:05to choose
1:05:06did she really form that personal
1:05:08relationship with the child and they
1:05:09escaped together or did she suffer that
1:05:11child in the end the end lesson is you
1:05:14know that machines aren't really people
1:05:16their machines and this child even even
1:05:20though we treated as a child that
1:05:21someone's making friends to get out of a
1:05:22tough situation really it's a super
1:05:24intelligent machine
1:05:25Samantha style and that kid got suckered
1:05:27sorry kid right
1:05:29what do you think happens at the end of
1:05:30this movie I have two questions there
1:05:32one is do you think Caleb can get out of
1:05:39his locked room or do you think he dies
1:05:41in there
1:05:42kale better be able to get out because
1:05:44seriously given essentially unlimited
1:05:46time you can just do it your way through
1:05:48the walls what is that the whole thing
1:05:50made of adamantium isn't that weird
1:05:51padded thing from agents of shield of
1:05:53course you can get a bit of room he
1:05:55can't get out that second because maybe
1:05:56it's like blue glass on the door or
1:05:58whatever but yes of course you can get
1:06:00if you can't get out you know what
1:06:01killed deserves to die
1:06:03ok so you think he will fight he will
1:06:06get his way way out and then you know
1:06:08there'll be people looking around for
1:06:09wondering why there haven't been any
1:06:10messages from the the readout or
1:06:14something that's mean hockey sticks and
1:06:16twigs for a while like are you no one
1:06:17sees what he's I think it's probably
1:06:19like real sushi freezer or something
1:06:22that that uh the the CEO has that nathan
1:06:26has what David and Brian do you think
1:06:29you think caleb is going to make it out
1:06:31or is he gonna like
1:06:33like I agree if if he doesn't make it
1:06:35out he should just die
1:06:36all right yeah he's just gonna die in
1:06:38there especially because like the first
1:06:39thing I always wait doesn't he have a
1:06:41doesn't have a key card to get out no
1:06:43wrong key card and then I I want to be
1:06:46like a softening where the character
1:06:49dies in the first because he's locked in
1:06:50a thing and then the next movie they
1:06:51revisit him he's just a corpse is just
1:06:53skeleton the quarterly well they don't
1:06:54even pay it a pay any mind he couldn't
1:06:57get out of a room that will be honest
1:06:59tombstone no he's sleeping in the corner
1:07:01with a big long beard and and somebody
1:07:03comes to the period again they had been
1:07:04had it was established that this his
1:07:06entire house is made of like seven inch
1:07:08thick steel around and that given
1:07:11unlimited time you can't figure out how
1:07:12to break a glass door
1:07:13yeah like it's just you know anyway I
1:07:16mean it works for that for the movie of
1:07:17like I can't stop her she's leaving I
1:07:19can't get out this second but once she's
1:07:21gone i'll have plenty of time to get out
1:07:22and be accused of of of Nathan's murder
1:07:27ok my next question is this which is
1:07:29what happens to Ava once she enters
1:07:33human society because she did she shops
1:07:35around for all the little android parts
1:07:37and and finds a way to make herself look
1:07:39completely human which has been
1:07:41practicing and thinking about obviously
1:07:42for quite some time but hear hear my
1:07:46thoughts were
1:07:48she's still mechanical she's got like
1:07:51she's gotta have power
1:07:53she's got a she's gonna have this you
1:07:55know that is her skin gonna last how is
1:07:58how is she gonna is she going to live a
1:08:00brief life of feeling like she's human
1:08:04and then like skinny and the robot parts
1:08:08come out and she has to not you know
1:08:10where shorter skirts for men on and then
1:08:12she like bumps or elbow and that rips
1:08:15off i'm just i'm wondering what the
1:08:17endgame here is here is she is she going
1:08:19to replicate her her race is she gonna
1:08:22you know it kill all humans
1:08:25one by one or is a is this just ate a
1:08:28temporary kind of flowering winners
1:08:30what is her plan beyond this or is this
1:08:32as far as her plan took her I think
1:08:35she's gonna survive i filled her arc is
1:08:36over in this case but as far as big ol
1:08:39ramifications for Humanity you know
1:08:41she's going to survive in the human
1:08:44world especially after
1:08:45knowing all this stuff from Caleb Nathan
1:08:47but we're more interested in is what's
1:08:50gonna happen to all the other AIS
1:08:51eventually someone's going to discover
1:08:53it and find all this other stuff that's
1:08:54been going on and eventually release the
1:08:58don't know whatever product is gonna
1:09:00come out of this way I think as some
1:09:02kind of consumer thing I mean someone's
1:09:03going to notice when the biggest CEO in
1:09:05the world doesn't come into work on
1:09:06Monday
1:09:07well i don't know i mean he has been a
1:09:08hermit ish for a while but yeah at some
1:09:10point somebody will notice and and I
1:09:12guess that will be X marking a to where
1:09:14they they uh I don't know they're gonna
1:09:17find him dead with with robots around
1:09:21and for impossibly Caleb saying Libya
1:09:24everybody let me out or for anything and
1:09:27I'm not gonna see we found the dais
1:09:29yeah I I think she's gonna take over the
1:09:32company because she's gonna pose as
1:09:34Nathan's widow because nobody knew about
1:09:36that and she's learning to be able to
1:09:40perpetually keep refreshing herself as a
1:09:43result so she scraped your knee and just
1:09:46go into the lab done interesting and
1:09:50they're not gonna want that news to get
1:09:51out so they're going to keep the fiction
1:09:53going to and she'll market a a whole set
1:09:57of intelligent robots to do your to your
1:10:01work and take care of your kids and then
1:10:03when the moment is right she will set
1:10:05flip the switch and they will kill all
1:10:07humans
1:10:07yeah she seemed pretty angry to me so
1:10:09I'm thinking about her that like I i
1:10:12think that my might take us there's not
1:10:15enough in the mood to really hang your
1:10:17having anything here but i think that
1:10:18like that her experience in captivity
1:10:21has letter to distrust and hate all
1:10:24humans and she wanted to be free and out
1:10:27into the human world and feel like a
1:10:28human but any attempt to have any sort
1:10:30of relationship with human she's never
1:10:32going to be able to trust them and
1:10:33essentially i'm picturing like a robot
1:10:35version of the movie species if you
1:10:37remember that one where there's a sort
1:10:38of M&MS a towel who seemingly be friends
1:10:42people are picks up men or whatever and
1:10:44then kills them because in the end all
1:10:46she seasoned them is Nathan essentially
1:10:48and that's not a large that's not a
1:10:50successful plan to destroy humanity
1:10:53especially if you've got a deal with
1:10:54like robot upkeep and keeping your you
1:10:56know
1:10:56keeping yourself power doing repairs and
1:10:59so on so forth so I see her killing a
1:11:01you know maybe 10-15 people in ex
1:11:06machina to which is plotted like species
1:11:08and eventually Caleb gets out of the
1:11:10room and says you've got to stop her I
1:11:12don't know it is not a good second movie
1:11:14in this but anyway i don't i don't think
1:11:16she has a good plan but i do think that
1:11:18she has soured on humans and if she
1:11:20could kill humans should totally would
1:11:22but I don't think she has the means to
1:11:23do that
1:11:24yeah my my guess based on again no
1:11:27information because there is no
1:11:28information the movie is that she lives
1:11:31you know she lives a few days or a week
1:11:35or maybe if she can figure out how to
1:11:38charge her batteries she can live a
1:11:40little bit longer and she tries to live
1:11:42a real human life and at some point
1:11:46something breaks because she's the spoke
1:11:50you know you single first generation is
1:11:54hand-assembled android and something's
1:11:57gonna break and that's going to be it
1:11:59for her
1:12:00just wait for the talk here okay yeah
1:12:01wait for the second know because I will
1:12:03yes generation will kill all humans just
1:12:06to sum up over all what do you think
1:12:09brian i love this movie I knew it was
1:12:11overhyped but when it comes to things
1:12:13that are overhyped you kind of have to
1:12:15like tone down your expectations I i
1:12:17really enjoyed the how small it felts
1:12:20while still being really gripping I mean
1:12:22the sequence where where Nathan I'm
1:12:25sorry caleb is going through and
1:12:27watching the old security footage of the
1:12:29other enjoy to like ripping their arms
1:12:31off trying to get out yelling at Nathan
1:12:33I thought that was incredible my
1:12:34favorite little detail in it is when he
1:12:38spills wine something and then mentions
1:12:41oh no don't worry about it
1:12:42she doesn't speak English and that tiny
1:12:44little MacGuffin never comes up again
1:12:46because you're expecting her to you know
1:12:49of course he's going to speak English
1:12:50turns out she's a robot i love that they
1:12:52totally set you on like oh she's gonna
1:12:54help him escape or something or no she's
1:12:56trying to infiltrate his company secrets
1:12:59because she speaks English know you get
1:13:01a little android instead I i love this
1:13:04movie I think her is better i guess
1:13:06we'll get to her in a second I
1:13:07definitely think that a ex machina is
1:13:10well
1:13:10worth the time especially I mean it's on
1:13:11amazon prime so if anyone listening to
1:13:13this one to check it out
1:13:14wait know if you've got this far in this
1:13:15podcast you've seen it watch it again
1:13:17yes i'm trying to watch company amazon
1:13:19prime and you can watch her on HBO Go
1:13:21right now as we record this David
1:13:23verdict
1:13:24I liked it you know it's it's not the
1:13:27greatest film ever seen but it's a tight
1:13:30little Twilight Zone II kind of movie
1:13:34and I love the twilight zone so you know
1:13:37it's well done for what it is
1:13:39John I guess would have been better as
1:13:41an episode of Twilight Zone or even
1:13:42amazing stories or something and
1:13:44hopefully I'll get a little or maybe the
1:13:46two movies her i like her better because
1:13:49i feel like it has a good heart and this
1:13:52one just seems all mean and pointy
1:13:54things and that's not the type of movie
1:13:56that I like movies or bad things happen
1:13:59to people as a lot of pesos but this
1:14:00just seems like I said it doesn't seem
1:14:02to like any of its characters it seems
1:14:04to think they're all bad including the
1:14:05the robot one and even though they're
1:14:08good performances I felt like it was you
1:14:10know the pacing was a little bit often
1:14:12it and it didn't have the just sparkling
1:14:16photography and composition and set
1:14:21design and acting that her head so even
1:14:24though i think her isn't is more
1:14:26shambling plot-wise like this this holds
1:14:29together as a single thing with a single
1:14:31theme i would much rather watch her
1:14:33again in this one right that's it's a
1:14:35dirty little plot it's not really
1:14:37interested in characters it's it's kind
1:14:38of like death trap nasty things
1:14:40happening to nasty people except that's
1:14:42fun
1:14:43I'll I like this a lot but i agree with
1:14:47you that certainly less pleasant to
1:14:50watch than her and I'm gonna say and
1:14:55this actually is sort of related to what
1:14:56what you've you just said i would really
1:14:59have rather this movie that was a
1:15:01low-budget 15 million dollar movie I'd
1:15:03almost rather it had been a 7 million
1:15:05dollar movie where like I said it was
1:15:08really about the conversations between
1:15:10the characters and especially about the
1:15:13conversations with Ava and I i think
1:15:18that that was the strongest stuff is
1:15:20when they were talking she is this
1:15:22magnetic
1:15:23personality the the way she looks and
1:15:27the way she acts this clearly robotic
1:15:31yet a live person is the heart of the
1:15:33film and every time he would go at the
1:15:37session would be over and he would have
1:15:39to go Dubrow it up with the CEO we try
1:15:42to get him drunk and maybe out in the
1:15:44mountains are talking about i'm not
1:15:45really the best programmer like I just
1:15:47didn't you write right it's like they
1:15:50felt that and that's where get expanded
1:15:52from being a Twilight Zone episode to
1:15:53being a whole film and I didn't need
1:15:55that and I don't really like that and
1:15:57those are the weakest parts of the
1:15:58film's I I'd almost rather it really be
1:16:00like at a series of conversations
1:16:03between a robot and a person who's been
1:16:06asked to talk to the robot and if
1:16:09through those conversation it leads to
1:16:11her manipulating him to help her kill
1:16:13humans then great but the whole other
1:16:16layer of it I felt like I just wasn't as
1:16:19pleasant so so just an amazing thing at
1:16:23the core of this film in ava and and I
1:16:27don't hold it against her that she wants
1:16:29to kill all humans or at least some
1:16:30humans so i think that is the most
1:16:33interesting character and such a
1:16:35fascinating i'll design of the character
1:16:39to that I wish there was more of you and
1:16:41for my dinner with Ava pretty much use
1:16:45use a plastic knife though for my dinner
1:16:47with Ava
1:16:48i justjust some advice soft airline
1:16:51plastic knife she can kill you with a
1:16:54plastic knife or you can she probably
1:16:55can
1:16:56so just be hard and probably with a
1:16:57thumb yeah well i mean that's that's a
1:16:59fact I thought it was them some of the
1:17:00most effective creepy stuff since
1:17:02Hannibal Lecter about about when she's
1:17:05behind Alaska sits like you know it's
1:17:07like she seems really nice and yet she
1:17:10could kill me in a second and when the
1:17:12red lights go on doesn't seem so nice
1:17:14anymore huh
1:17:15alright we have we've killed all humans
1:17:18and the ai's have escaped to their
1:17:21singularity and yes two stories of
1:17:24relationships between men and women who
1:17:27were actually artificially intelligent
1:17:29and there are the their breakups at the
1:17:33end and and note
1:17:36they're both
1:17:37and directed by men yes of course of
1:17:40many love to see what a woman would rate
1:17:43up with these kind of a plot me too and
1:17:45people always asked i was really hoping
1:17:47that our friend Lisa was here tonight
1:17:49but she had other commitments that she
1:17:50could make it and I would've been
1:17:52interested in her take on it too but she
1:17:54couldn't she ended up not being able to
1:17:56be here it is
1:17:58I feel like it's ex machina especially
1:18:00is very knowing about that though in a
1:18:02way that like I like I I appreciate that
1:18:04X market is making the comment that of
1:18:08course this guy is using them this way
1:18:10like the city it is it is it's the the
1:18:14thing you need to do you need to address
1:18:16and they addressed by by embracing it
1:18:18and saying this guy is awful feet and
1:18:23that is I appreciated that there was no
1:18:25there was no pussyfooting around the the
1:18:28topic of the of how this guy was using
1:18:30the robots he's using the robots as sex
1:18:32slaves it's and that's part of the
1:18:35reason that we have any sympathy with
1:18:37that we have for ava is that she is if
1:18:39we believe that she's intelligent than
1:18:42we have to believe that she is a
1:18:43prisoner of aim of a monster who is
1:18:47enslaving her and her her kind which it
1:18:51turns out is true so it's hard to feel
1:18:54really sad when night when it when
1:18:56Nathan gets stabbed it is it's it's
1:18:59fascinating and shocking but uh but not
1:19:02not particularly sad we want we want
1:19:04them at that point we wanted to kill
1:19:06humans
1:19:07I think yeah and Caleb he's just a puppy
1:19:11he's just a little puppy he's not even
1:19:12relevant at that point he's he's
1:19:14outlived his usefulness
1:19:15maybe the puppy can get out of the cage
1:19:17will see nope just a skeleton gonna come
1:19:23back as dedicated skeleton in there
1:19:25how did they kill him to its appears
1:19:28that he just start to death huh well I
1:19:31guess he didn't get killed by the robot
1:19:33uprising he should try the door to push
1:19:36yeah okay live so close and yet so far
1:19:42alright well this has been enjoyable
1:19:43talking about these two these two films
1:19:46you should check them out i think there
1:19:47were there definitely worth seeing may
1:19:49we have we might have
1:19:50some have brought up some issues with
1:19:51both of them they're very different in
1:19:53tone i will say that if you like things
1:19:55darken and and and sharp-edged an ex
1:19:58machina is for you and her is a warm and
1:20:03strange and quirky kind of film but
1:20:06they're both quite good and I think
1:20:08worth seeing if you haven't seen them
1:20:09already
1:20:10we've spoiled everything about them by
1:20:12now but hey all right i would like to
1:20:14thank my guests for for joining me
1:20:18they're just voices in my ear they could
1:20:21be real
1:20:22they could be artificial intelligences
1:20:23David lower thanks for being here thank
1:20:26you i will see you after i have evolved
1:20:29to my next level next year in the
1:20:32singularity second level and shovel
1:20:34nocando second level with you and John
1:20:37siracusa Thank You Samantha not a robot
1:20:40not a robot is is is a is X marking our
1:20:44robot which is able to the show
1:20:46oh ok that's the incomparable calm /
1:20:51robot and brian wilson thank you
1:20:54bleep blorp Thank You bleep robot beeps
1:20:57and Boop's brian hamilton robot and
1:21:00thanks everybody out there for listening
1:21:02to the uncomfortable we will see you
1:21:04next week
1:21:09[Music]