The Incomparable

272: Laid a Lot of Foundations


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00:00:40   subscription today the incomparable [TS]

00:00:45   number 272 November 2015 welcome back [TS]

00:00:52   everybody to the comfortable i'm your [TS]

00:00:54   host Jason smell were here [TS]

00:00:56   I'm convening a special episode of our [TS]

00:00:57   book club series as was foretold in our [TS]

00:01:01   fifth anniversary episode in the middle [TS]

00:01:03   of that episode our good pal mr. Scott [TS]

00:01:06   McNulty I believe suggested we could go [TS]

00:01:09   back into a classic science fiction [TS]

00:01:11   novel for book club like foundation or [TS]

00:01:14   something like that and i always am [TS]

00:01:18   trying to find new topics because we're [TS]

00:01:20   getting up toward episode 304 that was a [TS]

00:01:24   great idea and so here we are to talk [TS]

00:01:26   about the foundation trilogy and i'm [TS]

00:01:29   going to specify that the three original [TS]

00:01:32   foundation books that are actually not [TS]

00:01:35   really novels even but collections of [TS]

00:01:37   short stories that are all [TS]

00:01:38   interconnected and it's it's a strange [TS]

00:01:40   little thing written by isaac asimov [TS]

00:01:42   between 1942 and 1950 and collected in [TS]

00:01:47   three volumes in the fifties in 51 52 [TS]

00:01:50   and 53 joining me to talk about the [TS]

00:01:54   future history of the galaxy in the fall [TS]

00:01:56   of the Galactic Empire and things like [TS]

00:01:58   that of course the originator of this he [TS]

00:02:00   didn't lend a second definition is here [TS]

00:02:03   even after he suggested it [TS]

00:02:04   it's got McNulty hi Scott this is all [TS]

00:02:06   going according to my plan right you're [TS]

00:02:08   going to just hang up on us and laugh [TS]

00:02:10   and laugh and laugh no you just finished [TS]

00:02:12   rereading them all in [TS]

00:02:13   you're fine high quality leather bound [TS]

00:02:15   paper volume of foundations true it's [TS]

00:02:17   it's I'm holding it in my hands right [TS]

00:02:19   now it's a little mazing i love the tome [TS]

00:02:21   although i did find in the knowing typo [TS]

00:02:24   where they used an exclamation point in [TS]

00:02:26   7l so that annoyed me but i matter so [TS]

00:02:29   they must like a folksy artist or [TS]

00:02:31   something in order to probably create [TS]

00:02:32   the new one [TS]

00:02:35   well it's a leather-bound mistake so [TS]

00:02:37   there's that [TS]

00:02:38   also joining us David lower hello hello [TS]

00:02:42   there [TS]

00:02:43   I I foresaw this about a thousand years [TS]

00:02:45   ago and remember in fact in the American [TS]

00:02:49   equivalent of Trent or ok which is [TS]

00:02:51   Indiana yeah middle of nowhere at [TS]

00:02:53   America's end that's right i also [TS]

00:02:56   joining us erica and Simon who was [TS]

00:02:58   present when Scott foretold as was David [TS]

00:03:00   when it's got four told that we would do [TS]

00:03:02   this episode hello [TS]

00:03:03   I was indeed d'Epinay I think I'm here [TS]

00:03:05   to represent all of the females in this [TS]

00:03:08   in this series which is actually pretty [TS]

00:03:09   easy so i probably easy job Thomas [TS]

00:03:11   sounds like you know 20 seconds really [TS]

00:03:13   yeah we'll get the magical it and my [TS]

00:03:18   last guest a mutant who is hammered with [TS]

00:03:21   the ability to control emotions and [TS]

00:03:23   plots it's Monty Ashley hello I'm just [TS]

00:03:25   going to behave randomly and assume that [TS]

00:03:27   this was predicted to be the right thing [TS]

00:03:29   for me to do good excellent 14 usual [TS]

00:03:33   right plot solved [TS]

00:03:34   that's Monty standard and strategy for [TS]

00:03:38   the impalpable well so foundation III [TS]

00:03:41   heard I had a friend in elementary [TS]

00:03:44   school in high school who kept who [TS]

00:03:46   endlessly talked about death the [TS]

00:03:47   foundation novels and I didn't read them [TS]

00:03:48   until maybe 10 years ago not not a long [TS]

00:03:52   time ago [TS]

00:03:54   yeah I know it's amazing i didn't get [TS]

00:03:56   spoiled i don't know if they're hit it [TS]

00:03:58   was always sure but what's fascinating [TS]

00:03:59   about i did read irobot when i was when [TS]

00:04:02   i was younger and and it strikes me that [TS]

00:04:04   this is this is from this period of time [TS]

00:04:05   and not just because it's as a month but [TS]

00:04:07   also because of them the market for [TS]

00:04:09   science fiction at this point that a lot [TS]

00:04:11   of these stories were being told in [TS]

00:04:13   short story form essentially in various [TS]

00:04:16   pulp magazines at the time and then [TS]

00:04:19   collected into books later and so things [TS]

00:04:22   that we think of as books or novels are [TS]

00:04:24   not that like I robot is a [TS]

00:04:27   action of somewhat interlinked short [TS]

00:04:29   stories and the Foundation series you [TS]

00:04:31   could view it as a trilogy you could [TS]

00:04:34   view it as a series of short stories or [TS]

00:04:36   you could view it as sort of like one [TS]

00:04:38   big story told in these kind of [TS]

00:04:40   disparate parts but one of the reasons I [TS]

00:04:42   felt pretty comfortable taking these [TS]

00:04:43   three original books and talking about [TS]

00:04:46   them here is that you know really this [TS]

00:04:48   is the this even though he wrote sequels [TS]

00:04:50   and prequels later [TS]

00:04:52   these are the books these are the [TS]

00:04:53   stories that as mobs has not told in a [TS]

00:04:56   short period of time and that their [TS]

00:04:58   interest rate timeline and this is the [TS]

00:05:00   tale he wanted to tell about this sort [TS]

00:05:02   of galactic future history thing so they [TS]

00:05:06   don't and they do it doesn't feel like a [TS]

00:05:08   novel it is a weird kind of reading [TS]

00:05:09   experience I don't know I ki thought [TS]

00:05:11   that I came to it later but not nearly [TS]

00:05:13   his ladies you too Jason [TS]

00:05:15   yeah oh yeah because I i read a lot of [TS]

00:05:17   asthma when I was younger it was more of [TS]

00:05:19   his his really early stuff like pebble [TS]

00:05:21   in the sky and the stars like dust so [TS]

00:05:23   like really it is earliest novels and I [TS]

00:05:26   heard people talk about the foundation [TS]

00:05:27   just like you had but sort of never got [TS]

00:05:29   around to it until I mean was probably [TS]

00:05:32   high school or college so you know still [TS]

00:05:33   still lots of years ago but no later [TS]

00:05:36   than his other stuff and and I had not [TS]

00:05:39   known that they were collected developed [TS]

00:05:42   short stories etc etc so it felt really [TS]

00:05:45   disjointed to me i was expecting it to [TS]

00:05:47   be more like one of his novels and I [TS]

00:05:50   think the first time I went through it i [TS]

00:05:51   had real trouble with it simply because [TS]

00:05:53   I was not expecting that kind of format [TS]

00:05:54   and you know I wanted to get in touch [TS]

00:05:57   with the characters and then suddenly [TS]

00:05:59   they were gone and it was somebody else [TS]

00:06:00   and it has been many pages like what's [TS]

00:06:02   going on so that was my experience I [TS]

00:06:05   guess that the part of telling this [TS]

00:06:06   galactic scope I mean that the premise [TS]

00:06:08   here is that is that there's a Galactic [TS]

00:06:10   Empire spans the the Milky Way galaxy [TS]

00:06:12   and this guy Hari Seldon / foretells [TS]

00:06:16   that the the Empire is in decay and it's [TS]

00:06:19   going to fall in there will be a dark [TS]

00:06:21   age that will last tens of thousands of [TS]

00:06:23   families but every thousand years that's [TS]

00:06:26   when I was a ok if you want to be [TS]

00:06:28   specific i was something more dramatic [TS]

00:06:29   tens of thousands of years and five is [TS]

00:06:32   very specifically dark looks [TS]

00:06:34   yes and he knows everything that will [TS]

00:06:36   happen during [TS]

00:06:37   entire tire indeed it but he says I have [TS]

00:06:40   a plan that will allow this dark age to [TS]

00:06:43   be reduced to only a thousand years tens [TS]

00:06:45   of hundreds and indeed a ten hundred [TS]

00:06:49   years with exactly and uh and and then a [TS]

00:06:53   new galactic empire will rise [TS]

00:06:55   yay i guess because and in the parallel [TS]

00:06:58   here is with the fall of Rome and you [TS]

00:07:00   know I it's all in there but I feel like [TS]

00:07:02   one of the the things about the scope of [TS]

00:07:05   this galaxy spanning and the time frame [TS]

00:07:08   is that it's gonna destroy he wants to [TS]

00:07:11   tell it's going to be chopped up i mean [TS]

00:07:13   there are there are stories that [TS]

00:07:14   continue characters like the mule we see [TS]

00:07:17   a couple of times but really it's like [TS]

00:07:19   the sweep of history like you know you [TS]

00:07:21   get to know some characters and then the [TS]

00:07:22   next door it's like oh yeah that was 50 [TS]

00:07:24   years ago they're all dead and like all [TS]

00:07:25   right I guess that's what this is about [TS]

00:07:28   because it is this disc could not be a [TS]

00:07:30   broader canvas in terms of space and [TS]

00:07:31   time [TS]

00:07:32   well as mouth was never that interested [TS]

00:07:34   in his characters as people with [TS]

00:07:36   emotions or goals and I feel like this [TS]

00:07:40   is the ultimate expression of that [TS]

00:07:42   totally there's one scene where where [TS]

00:07:45   you get a room where there's people like [TS]

00:07:46   five or six people in the room talking [TS]

00:07:48   you don't find out any of their names [TS]

00:07:50   except for one guy and I'm not even i'm [TS]

00:07:52   not even talking about the second [TS]

00:07:53   founder foundation stuff yet it's just [TS]

00:07:55   these are these are active players in [TS]

00:07:58   the first foundation and you don't get [TS]

00:08:00   any information about them except for [TS]

00:08:01   you no one has a thin face one has a [TS]

00:08:03   slightly wider face i was like wow this [TS]

00:08:05   is this is the perfect passage to [TS]

00:08:07   illustrate his feeling on [TS]

00:08:10   characterization because there was [TS]

00:08:12   nothing as soon as they fulfill their [TS]

00:08:14   duty to the plot [TS]

00:08:15   they just drop out immediately had this [TS]

00:08:17   is accountable school because i read a [TS]

00:08:19   we did that retro Hugo's episode I read [TS]

00:08:21   something that one of the one of the e [TS]

00:08:23   doc smith yank books [TS]

00:08:25   yeah and it reminded me of this to which [TS]

00:08:28   is there are some characters when [TS]

00:08:31   necessary and they might not be [TS]

00:08:33   particularly fleshed out as we think of [TS]

00:08:35   it is sort of in modern fiction but the [TS]

00:08:38   ideas are there about again these big [TS]

00:08:40   ideas like galaxy-spanning ideas and the [TS]

00:08:44   characters are a little bit less of a [TS]

00:08:46   focus and they come and go and and again [TS]

00:08:49   if you pulled all the way back to see [TS]

00:08:51   the whole galaxy over the course of [TS]

00:08:52   hundreds if not thousands years the [TS]

00:08:56   individual people do sort of get lost in [TS]

00:08:58   the you know they're like they're like [TS]

00:09:00   ants they look like ants from up here [TS]

00:09:02   something like something like that when [TS]

00:09:05   and the thrust of what psychohistory [TS]

00:09:07   right which is a very big component of [TS]

00:09:09   this series is that the individual [TS]

00:09:13   doesn't matter unless you're a mutant or [TS]

00:09:16   harris Eldon or Harry something he's the [TS]

00:09:18   one that matters so you can see I mean I [TS]

00:09:22   obviously as I've read other of his [TS]

00:09:24   books that do not have that as a thrust [TS]

00:09:26   and the characters are equally as thin [TS]

00:09:27   so I'm not going to try and say that [TS]

00:09:30   that was some kind of writer Lee device [TS]

00:09:33   tcp did but I can imagine writing a term [TS]

00:09:36   paper that argues that [TS]

00:09:37   sure sure I mean you could you could [TS]

00:09:40   definitely make that argument it is it [TS]

00:09:42   is an interesting premise here right [TS]

00:09:44   that the idea here again going to the [TS]

00:09:47   the fall of Rome and all of that is that [TS]

00:09:50   this is all this is all fated to happen [TS]

00:09:53   he foresees it and it's sort of like [TS]

00:09:55   making making the best of a bad [TS]

00:09:58   situation in some ways it's like being a [TS]

00:10:00   look I'm getting I'm getting you down [TS]

00:10:02   from 30 thousand two-one thousand that's [TS]

00:10:05   pretty good right i mean we'll all be [TS]

00:10:07   dead before it happens but we can we can [TS]

00:10:10   do this it's a little bit altruistic [TS]

00:10:11   it's and it's and it's definitely people [TS]

00:10:15   have had this some reaction to the [TS]

00:10:16   series i think because of this this big [TS]

00:10:18   idea that we're going to create these [TS]

00:10:21   you know secret secret organizations [TS]

00:10:23   that are going to save humanity because [TS]

00:10:25   if you look at our if you look at our [TS]

00:10:27   past at that there is a period of time [TS]

00:10:29   that again it depends on your [TS]

00:10:32   perspective but in if you look at [TS]

00:10:34   european history there's this sort of [TS]

00:10:36   general feeling like european history [TS]

00:10:38   has a giant hole in it for a while [TS]

00:10:40   because growing fell and then there's [TS]

00:10:42   the Renaissance and in between everybody [TS]

00:10:44   was kind of modeling around and there [TS]

00:10:45   was a lot of lost information and some [TS]

00:10:47   of that is a little oversold i think but [TS]

00:10:50   you know that that is influencing this [TS]

00:10:52   whole story here and so that that's an [TS]

00:10:54   interesting aspect of the story [TS]

00:10:56   Scott why don't we start with you since [TS]

00:10:57   you just reread all of this stuff what [TS]

00:11:00   what what struck you in rereading at the [TS]

00:11:02   this is I i'm having a hard time trying [TS]

00:11:05   to figure out how to get into this [TS]

00:11:06   because it is a series of short stories [TS]

00:11:08   that are in the link set in this big [TS]

00:11:09   idea of psychohistory and [TS]

00:11:11   galaxy-spanning stop so what struck you [TS]

00:11:14   when you read about this [TS]

00:11:15   well I we were just talking before we [TS]

00:11:17   started recording that Jason you had [TS]

00:11:19   recently read ancillary mercy and i [TS]

00:11:21   finished ancillary mercy and then I [TS]

00:11:25   started rereading the foundation trilogy [TS]

00:11:27   haha which is an interesting [TS]

00:11:29   juxtaposition of books because ancillary [TS]

00:11:33   mercy i think i won't say if I think [TS]

00:11:36   it's good or bad [TS]

00:11:36   although i think it's good wait wait [TS]

00:11:39   wait [TS]

00:11:40   spoiler alert that's not how that works [TS]

00:11:42   for me to Scott but it's a secret don't [TS]

00:11:45   tell anybody what who is a lot of things [TS]

00:11:47   happen in it but it is you know [TS]

00:11:49   obviously a very modern science fiction [TS]

00:11:52   book it is dealing with big ideas but [TS]

00:11:55   it's doing it in a very modern way and [TS]

00:11:57   then it you know looking at a book or [TS]

00:11:59   series of short stories that was written [TS]

00:12:01   70 years ago doing basically painting on [TS]

00:12:05   the same canvas right galaxy-spanning [TS]

00:12:06   stuff is happening but it's handled in a [TS]

00:12:10   very very different way and yet i still [TS]

00:12:13   thought as i was reading it it didn't [TS]

00:12:15   obviously it is a work of its time and I [TS]

00:12:19   was looking I was trying to keep track [TS]

00:12:21   of all the female characters as i read [TS]

00:12:23   the first hundred pages and 0 is easy to [TS]

00:12:26   keep track of so yeah so I thought that [TS]

00:12:30   was interesting i also thought I was a [TS]

00:12:32   reading it that any of the characters [TS]

00:12:34   could have been male or female because [TS]

00:12:36   it doesn't really matter so if you want [TS]

00:12:39   to and they're working on like a TV [TS]

00:12:41   series of this i think which I don't [TS]

00:12:42   understand how they're going to do that [TS]

00:12:43   but I imagine they're going to make a [TS]

00:12:46   lot more characters within I hope [TS]

00:12:48   there's a lot of 40 and 50 science [TS]

00:12:49   fiction that is men standing around in [TS]

00:12:51   room smoking cigars having conversation [TS]

00:12:53   yes and this this is of that ilk and yet [TS]

00:12:56   I I have very fond memories of reading [TS]

00:12:59   this when I was in high school and i [TS]

00:13:03   still i reread it and I still think it's [TS]

00:13:05   fantastic and it is still blew my mind [TS]

00:13:10   that this man 70 years ago thought of [TS]

00:13:13   these crazy things and so much [TS]

00:13:15   the of what we know of science fiction [TS]

00:13:17   has been built on the similar concepts [TS]

00:13:19   that is enough invented them by himself [TS]

00:13:22   but he certainly laid a lot of [TS]

00:13:24   foundations uh for modern science [TS]

00:13:28   fiction and and when you look at this [TS]

00:13:31   work in that context I feel like you [TS]

00:13:35   can't miss the importance of it and if [TS]

00:13:38   you look at if you're looking at it and [TS]

00:13:40   trying to see it as a modern science [TS]

00:13:42   fiction story there are many things that [TS]

00:13:44   does wrong but when you I feel like when [TS]

00:13:47   you look at it in context it's just an [TS]

00:13:48   amazing piece of work and then thats [TS]

00:13:51   that's what i think it's interesting [TS]

00:13:53   from a modern context I think you could [TS]

00:13:54   look at at this and say it's like raw [TS]

00:13:59   material for not just these what eight [TS]

00:14:01   or ten short stories it's like raw [TS]

00:14:03   material for hundreds of novice like you [TS]

00:14:05   could take you could write a modern [TS]

00:14:06   science fiction novel based on like five [TS]

00:14:09   pages of the foundation books because it [TS]

00:14:12   and there's a little like how comic [TS]

00:14:13   books used to tell a complete story in [TS]

00:14:15   one you know part of an issue that goes [TS]

00:14:17   for like 16 pages and now that same [TS]

00:14:19   story gets told over a tissues because [TS]

00:14:22   everything is decompressed but it's but [TS]

00:14:23   in modern a lot of modern fiction i feel [TS]

00:14:25   like you know you end up spending more [TS]

00:14:26   time with the characters which again was [TS]

00:14:27   sort of not the point of this it was [TS]

00:14:29   more about the ideas something like the [TS]

00:14:30   ancillary series is you know it's about [TS]

00:14:34   a star empire but it's not about the end [TS]

00:14:37   and about a cover eyes and fall of power [TS]

00:14:39   but it is this zoomed in close on some [TS]

00:14:42   of the characters and how it affects [TS]

00:14:44   them and and I you know I do think you [TS]

00:14:46   could you could randomly that could be a [TS]

00:14:47   new podcast where you just take five [TS]

00:14:49   pages of of a foundation and described [TS]

00:14:53   by science fiction novels that could [TS]

00:14:54   come out in it but i think that i think [TS]

00:14:55   that that is that that is part of it is [TS]

00:14:57   that it's it's it's not like what we [TS]

00:14:59   read now but the ideas are huge and [TS]

00:15:01   interesting it's just you know it today [TS]

00:15:04   it would read like a like a pitch for an [TS]

00:15:06   outline or something more than a an [TS]

00:15:09   actual story [TS]

00:15:10   yes it's true and I seem to remember [TS]

00:15:12   thinking to myself about as you guys [TS]

00:15:14   enough that he had a lot of great ideas [TS]

00:15:16   but he wasn't the world's greatest [TS]

00:15:18   writer or or you know stylists yeah but [TS]

00:15:23   I've read a few passages in this book [TS]

00:15:25   and I was just struck at how beautifully [TS]

00:15:27   he describes generally plan [TS]

00:15:29   it's not he doesn't bother with people [TS]

00:15:32   generally but and maybe like you know [TS]

00:15:36   air cars and things and there are some [TS]

00:15:38   you know very well done pieces of pros [TS]

00:15:42   work in here [TS]

00:15:43   of course they're hundred pages of [TS]

00:15:45   exposition and people standing around [TS]

00:15:47   rooms we know he's a storyteller and hit [TS]

00:15:50   the point of his story is the big [TS]

00:15:51   picture more than it's the character [TS]

00:15:52   directly [TS]

00:15:53   yeah Erica what do you think the the [TS]

00:15:55   appeal of these stories is all this time [TS]

00:15:57   because God said this is these these [TS]

00:15:59   were written in the forties and people [TS]

00:16:01   still talk about them and cite them i [TS]

00:16:03   mean they're they're considered classics [TS]

00:16:05   what what is it that strikes you that [TS]

00:16:08   makes these things be things we still [TS]

00:16:11   read today even other than because the [TS]

00:16:13   podcast is that haha that's a common one [TS]

00:16:17   butt brother [TS]

00:16:18   well yeah the most common perhaps for I [TS]

00:16:20   think like i said i had trouble with it [TS]

00:16:23   the first time I read it but then when I [TS]

00:16:24   went back to it afterwards I was that it [TS]

00:16:26   hit me much better because I kind of [TS]

00:16:28   knew what to expect format wise and I [TS]

00:16:30   think one of the things that these that [TS]

00:16:32   draws people back to these books just [TS]

00:16:33   sort of the audacity of it like he has [TS]

00:16:36   created this I mean super super huge [TS]

00:16:40   time spanning story and it's not just [TS]

00:16:42   the fact that spending a lot of time [TS]

00:16:43   because there are many books and series [TS]

00:16:45   of books out there that you know give [TS]

00:16:47   you the whole history of our family or [TS]

00:16:48   something like that but this is actually [TS]

00:16:50   up one person at the beginning of it [TS]

00:16:53   maps out all of these events and is [TS]

00:16:56   supposedly i'm predicting everything [TS]

00:16:58   that's going to happen and having this [TS]

00:17:00   great plan in place and I think that I [TS]

00:17:02   mean that's the kind of thing that you [TS]

00:17:04   have to either get on board with at the [TS]

00:17:06   beginning or you're really really not [TS]

00:17:08   going to enjoy these books at all [TS]

00:17:10   I which i think is probably the complete [TS]

00:17:12   that I've heard from some people who [TS]

00:17:14   just cant get their head around that be [TS]

00:17:16   like oh that's just a stupid idea [TS]

00:17:18   well then I point out all the flying [TS]

00:17:19   cars and all that kind of stuff and well [TS]

00:17:22   you know what I'm willing to I'm willing [TS]

00:17:23   to go along with that [TS]

00:17:24   so once you jump on board with that [TS]

00:17:26   premise it's it's kind of fascinating to [TS]

00:17:29   just see how it plays itself out and one [TS]

00:17:31   thing that I find in a lot of Isaac [TS]

00:17:32   gasps moans work is I mean I get the [TS]

00:17:34   impression that he is just as delighted [TS]

00:17:37   as the reader is if not more so with how [TS]

00:17:39   clever he is and how much you know [TS]

00:17:42   he is able to you know tie things up in [TS]

00:17:44   a neat little bow and I you know we [TS]

00:17:47   don't get a lot of character development [TS]

00:17:48   but we awfully get an awful lot of [TS]

00:17:50   characters speaking at the end of each [TS]

00:17:52   story to explain how clever they were I [TS]

00:17:54   am how how well they did things and I [TS]

00:17:58   mean at this stage in my life I think [TS]

00:17:59   that is less exciting to me than it was [TS]

00:18:02   when i first came to the Foundation [TS]

00:18:04   series and many of his other works so [TS]

00:18:07   that was something that I just grabbed [TS]

00:18:09   onto really tightly and enjoyed the the [TS]

00:18:12   the mystery aspect of it and having [TS]

00:18:14   having the the twist explain at the end [TS]

00:18:17   because i never ever kind of saw that [TS]

00:18:19   sort of stuff coming it just wasn't good [TS]

00:18:21   at that so I think that's one of the [TS]

00:18:24   things especially for someone like me [TS]

00:18:26   who came to it that a fairly decent age [TS]

00:18:29   or if you came to even younger than most [TS]

00:18:30   of the people that I knew who had talked [TS]

00:18:32   about it had read in like you know [TS]

00:18:34   elementary school or junior high or [TS]

00:18:36   something like that so i would say [TS]

00:18:37   audacity is sort of music [TS]

00:18:39   the big thing time for a break for me to [TS]

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00:19:21   franchises previous creates have [TS]

00:19:23   included items for franchises like Star [TS]

00:19:24   Wars Marvel with a Walking Dead The [TS]

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00:19:53   interesting basically loot crate is like [TS]

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00:20:06   pacific time that's the best time zone [TS]

00:20:08   by the way to subscribe and receive that [TS]

00:20:10   months create and when the cutoff [TS]

00:20:11   happens that's it it's over so before [TS]

00:20:14   the 19th at 9pm going to loot crate calm [TS]

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00:20:23   sponsoring the incomparable Erica to [TS]

00:20:26   your point about Isaac being fond of his [TS]

00:20:29   own cleverness i will say that i have [TS]

00:20:31   here on my bookshelf as a mom's [TS]

00:20:34   annotated gilbert and sullivan and [TS]

00:20:36   original interpretation of the rules [TS]

00:20:37   best-loved light opera by Isaac Asimov [TS]

00:20:39   and it's over a thousand pages long [TS]

00:20:43   yeah because he decided to annotate all [TS]

00:20:46   of gilbert and sullivan just so everyone [TS]

00:20:48   would know all the things he knows about [TS]

00:20:51   light opera see did that would be a [TS]

00:20:53   tumblr [TS]

00:20:56   yeah but you know he's smart guy and as [TS]

00:20:58   you and he could get a book contract and [TS]

00:21:00   say I have opinions about the things [TS]

00:21:02   that I like and my concern them out he [TS]

00:21:04   certainly could get a book contract he [TS]

00:21:06   even stopped writing so now hundreds [TS]

00:21:09   hundreds of do it [TS]

00:21:10   Erica you mentioned that you mentioned [TS]

00:21:12   the way these many of these stories ends [TS]

00:21:14   the the one where it's sort of like the [TS]

00:21:15   fate of the mule and what happens to the [TS]

00:21:17   mule and in second foundation that that [TS]

00:21:20   literally ends with like 10 pages of now [TS]

00:21:22   i know that you know you know that I [TS]

00:21:24   know that you know that I know but did [TS]

00:21:26   you know that I know that he knew that [TS]

00:21:28   you knew that I knew that you know and [TS]

00:21:31   at some point somebody's head almost [TS]

00:21:33   literally explodes with these the chain [TS]

00:21:36   of logic that happens and it's kind of [TS]

00:21:38   funny and yet at the same time you're [TS]

00:21:39   like come on it did take me a little i [TS]

00:21:42   had to reread a couple of passages to to [TS]

00:21:45   sort of make sure that I was following [TS]

00:21:46   the lines of those logic so and and you [TS]

00:21:49   know everything that he laid out was [TS]

00:21:50   corrected just it it was so intricate [TS]

00:21:53   that I had to reread it but I do agree [TS]

00:21:54   with Scott there there are a decent [TS]

00:21:56   number of you know kind of beautiful [TS]

00:21:58   passages in here since I was reading on [TS]

00:22:00   my kindle for the first time I thought [TS]

00:22:01   that the foundation was one of the books [TS]

00:22:03   that i had brought along with me when i [TS]

00:22:04   moved i had a nice hardcover copy but [TS]

00:22:06   apparently that was not the case because [TS]

00:22:08   it was big and heavy [TS]

00:22:09   but so i just bought everything for my [TS]

00:22:10   kindle and was highlighting messages and [TS]

00:22:13   i actually found something i really [TS]

00:22:14   liked so so gay azimoff yeah I i think i [TS]

00:22:18   think that he was a very talented writer [TS]

00:22:21   i wrote up and i read a biography of his [TS]

00:22:23   and wrote a whole like term paper about [TS]

00:22:25   him in high school I mean he's he's a [TS]

00:22:27   fascinating writer [TS]

00:22:29   yes i did all that without having [TS]

00:22:30   foundation mm-hmm i know i know it was a [TS]

00:22:36   monster [TS]

00:22:37   yeah well I just say it had been [TS]

00:22:38   overhyped to me I had to I had to wait [TS]

00:22:41   I'd wait a fascinating guy but yeah just [TS]

00:22:44   keep their stuff that interested him and [TS]

00:22:46   it was often that audacity is that big [TS]

00:22:48   picture like hairy cells in himself who [TS]

00:22:50   Isaac Asimov had a vision for a thousand [TS]

00:22:53   years of galactic history that he wanted [TS]

00:22:55   to to to share with us [TS]

00:22:58   I don't think he actually did have that [TS]

00:22:59   vision which is what my hobby dividers [TS]

00:23:02   like people kept saying well what [TS]

00:23:05   happened next [TS]

00:23:06   ok then his answer was normally I don't [TS]

00:23:09   know it all worked out somehow figure it [TS]

00:23:13   out yourself kids wait till i come up [TS]

00:23:14   with the next novella how about if [TS]

00:23:16   there's a mutiny was writing all the [TS]

00:23:18   sequels and connecting everything up a [TS]

00:23:20   part of the reason he then went [TS]

00:23:22   backwards and started writing prequels [TS]

00:23:23   was because he said I have no idea what [TS]

00:23:25   comes next [TS]

00:23:26   i was reading something about how he [TS]

00:23:28   didn't even really like a foundation all [TS]

00:23:30   that much after he wrote it but someone [TS]

00:23:31   they were like you need to write a [TS]

00:23:33   sequel and he was like but there's a [TS]

00:23:34   plan and it's going to work out how [TS]

00:23:37   about a mutant basically what Jason said [TS]

00:23:38   and we'll figure out a way you gotta put [TS]

00:23:40   up throw a wrench in the works I you [TS]

00:23:42   could you can actually if you think [TS]

00:23:43   about it it's like okay I need to read [TS]

00:23:45   more of these because people like them [TS]

00:23:46   but the whole point is that Hari [TS]

00:23:48   Seldon's plan is going to come off and [TS]

00:23:50   it's going to bring about the new empire [TS]

00:23:53   in a thousand years and and so how do i [TS]

00:23:55   get more mileage out of this and that [TS]

00:23:57   was you [TS]

00:23:58   I'm sure he just went through the [TS]

00:23:59   process of what if there was something [TS]

00:24:01   unexpected [TS]

00:24:02   what would that be maybe it's a mutant [TS]

00:24:04   who has powers who is going to although [TS]

00:24:06   even then I kind of thought in the end I [TS]

00:24:10   i was skeptical about whether the mule [TS]

00:24:12   could really I mean I I felt it was kind [TS]

00:24:16   of faded like you know we got this under [TS]

00:24:18   control there might be a mutant at some [TS]

00:24:19   point it's gonna work out it'll all work [TS]

00:24:21   out I can hated the idea [TS]

00:24:23   that the reason this particular mutant [TS]

00:24:26   wanted to go on such a rampage [TS]

00:24:27   throughout the universe of revenge is [TS]

00:24:29   because he looked weird and felt really [TS]

00:24:32   bad about that I hate the idea that this [TS]

00:24:34   many you know millennia in the future [TS]

00:24:36   people are still coming to be judged so [TS]

00:24:38   much on their appearance that they [TS]

00:24:40   decide to have you know the bloodlust to [TS]

00:24:42   take over the entire galaxy [TS]

00:24:44   to be fair he looked kind of stupid they [TS]

00:24:48   were bringing televisions to farmers in [TS]

00:24:50   the far future I thought that was a [TS]

00:24:51   funny little touch and one of them is [TS]

00:24:53   the technology overall is very [TS]

00:24:56   interesting i mean it's it's so clear [TS]

00:24:58   when these books were written [TS]

00:25:00   he's got a lot of far future ideas but [TS]

00:25:02   everybody is still smoking like he [TS]

00:25:03   couldn't picture a time and smoking what [TS]

00:25:05   is the thing people did your paper [TS]

00:25:07   everything's right on paper their x-rays [TS]

00:25:09   were nuclear that's what I love about [TS]

00:25:11   pulp stories from this era is you've got [TS]

00:25:14   people who show up in spaceships and the [TS]

00:25:16   step out and talk exactly like nineteen [TS]

00:25:18   thirties gangsters it's great there's [TS]

00:25:22   the dictation machine in the last story [TS]

00:25:25   in in second foundation where she's [TS]

00:25:27   reading she dictates it and it writes [TS]

00:25:31   things out in longhand in pen on paper [TS]

00:25:33   and I thought that's just so strange but [TS]

00:25:37   you know again you don't know things you [TS]

00:25:39   imagine about the future and the things [TS]

00:25:40   you don't and also the argument that [TS]

00:25:42   science fiction is really about you know [TS]

00:25:43   the time in which it's written and you [TS]

00:25:45   want them to be recognizable characters [TS]

00:25:47   and science fiction that pushes those [TS]

00:25:48   boundaries and makes it like here's what [TS]

00:25:50   people will really be like 500 years or [TS]

00:25:52   a thousand years from now are probably [TS]

00:25:53   not going to be things that are even [TS]

00:25:54   comprehensible and probably very [TS]

00:25:57   challenging you know he's telling a row [TS]

00:25:59   malagori here to be fair i mean when i [TS]

00:26:01   first read these books might probably [TS]

00:26:03   like early nineties at that time we [TS]

00:26:07   weren't in the position that we are now [TS]

00:26:09   some most of those things didn't seem [TS]

00:26:10   that far-fetched the idea of everybody's [TS]

00:26:12   smoking was still not it's still not [TS]

00:26:14   that weird [TS]

00:26:15   the idea of everything still being on [TS]

00:26:17   paper completely made sense so I'm sure [TS]

00:26:19   when i was first reading it I like heard [TS]

00:26:21   about that dictation machine was like oh [TS]

00:26:22   man I want one [TS]

00:26:23   whereas now I'm like oh that would be [TS]

00:26:25   clunky and terrible but it would still [TS]

00:26:28   be kind of awesome [TS]

00:26:29   well apparently can make the paper smell [TS]

00:26:31   good too so you something well you know [TS]

00:26:33   if your girl [TS]

00:26:35   right there are girls in his book a [TS]

00:26:37   couple in a few so I like the first the [TS]

00:26:41   beginning parts of the foundation story [TS]

00:26:42   when it's all about Harry Seldon [TS]

00:26:44   predicted exactly this and this guy [TS]

00:26:46   gotta make up an encyclopedia but it's [TS]

00:26:48   not really what it's about [TS]

00:26:50   yeah and somebody needs to figure out [TS]

00:26:52   how to get through this particular thing [TS]

00:26:53   I am less interested in it when it [TS]

00:26:56   turned into a hunt for the second [TS]

00:26:58   foundation and also the second [TS]

00:27:00   foundation is actually rigging [TS]

00:27:01   everything all the time so area Sultan [TS]

00:27:03   wasn't even that clever to begin with [TS]

00:27:05   yeah yeah I i agree i think the mule is [TS]

00:27:08   an interesting thing where it is quite a [TS]

00:27:10   gambit on his part to have this [TS]

00:27:13   character and broken across the the two [TS]

00:27:16   books to which is interesting like it [TS]

00:27:20   gives it sort of a cliffhanger kind of [TS]

00:27:22   feel to it which is kind of interesting [TS]

00:27:23   for things that are generally not [TS]

00:27:25   connected to each other but they're [TS]

00:27:27   there are a lot of these that that are [TS]

00:27:29   are more i would say yeah they're more [TS]

00:27:31   they're more uninteresting once that the [TS]

00:27:34   the most audacious stuff is at the [TS]

00:27:36   beginning which is that you're watching [TS]

00:27:37   you're watching time go ahead i love [TS]

00:27:39   that there's the there's the hologram [TS]

00:27:42   machine that just pops up and hairy [TS]

00:27:44   cells and gives like more facts about [TS]

00:27:46   how his plan is progressing because he's [TS]

00:27:49   figured it all out you know early on [TS]

00:27:51   that that's kind of that's kind of fun [TS]

00:27:53   because it's the work we're setting this [TS]

00:27:55   up where and also i think it's an [TS]

00:27:58   exciting story about trying to preserve [TS]

00:28:00   society right the idea is we're trying [TS]

00:28:02   to we're trying to save knowledge and [TS]

00:28:05   culture from 30,000 your dark age and [TS]

00:28:08   even a thousand years we still need to [TS]

00:28:10   preserve it and that's kind of fun story [TS]

00:28:12   to tell [TS]

00:28:13   I like psychohistory as the hard science [TS]

00:28:16   fiction concept of what if this science [TS]

00:28:19   existed [TS]

00:28:20   what would that mean and when it turns [TS]

00:28:22   out that what it means is that there's a [TS]

00:28:24   race of telepathic Superman who can [TS]

00:28:27   control minds and do all this other [TS]

00:28:29   stuff it's getting a little goofy but [TS]

00:28:31   they learned how to do it inside the [TS]

00:28:33   basic the the capital of the empire all [TS]

00:28:37   along [TS]

00:28:38   yeah who told you turn you as a as a [TS]

00:28:42   social science major one of the things [TS]

00:28:45   that amuses me about this is that this [TS]

00:28:46   is this is a very social science kind of [TS]

00:28:48   side [TS]

00:28:48   fiction right it's like you know what [TS]

00:28:50   social science is going to be in the [TS]

00:28:52   future is going to be so good they could [TS]

00:28:54   predict everything will happen entire [TS]

00:28:57   galaxy for a thousand years [TS]

00:28:59   that's how good we are going to get with [TS]

00:29:01   social science I didn't major in [TS]

00:29:03   psychohistory though wasn't offered [TS]

00:29:05   black and minor in it [TS]

00:29:06   what kind of school do you go to [TS]

00:29:07   transport tech he was not that good but [TS]

00:29:13   man can you machine things good robotics [TS]

00:29:16   program mostly logic puzzles [TS]

00:29:18   hey Erica so do you want to talk a [TS]

00:29:21   little bit more about the largely utter [TS]

00:29:25   lack of women in mesa you know the that [TS]

00:29:29   i have read an awful lot of books home [TS]

00:29:32   by Isaac asthma and other writers from [TS]

00:29:34   this area and that's the thing that even [TS]

00:29:36   when its first reading them [TS]

00:29:37   I didn't even really notice because i [TS]

00:29:39   didn't know it could be any different [TS]

00:29:40   now that I've grown up and read a lot of [TS]

00:29:43   cool books with lots of exciting female [TS]

00:29:45   characters the relax stands out a whole [TS]

00:29:48   lot more and you know maybe it wouldn't [TS]

00:29:51   be quite so bad if the very few examples [TS]

00:29:54   of female characters we had in here were [TS]

00:29:55   treated the way they were treated i [TS]

00:29:58   mentioned i highlighted some passages so [TS]

00:29:59   I just like to take you guys little [TS]

00:30:01   taste of the stuff that jumped out at me [TS]

00:30:04   so we had the tues endian planet where [TS]

00:30:07   they landed on one of the outskirt [TS]

00:30:09   planets but they're talking about the [TS]

00:30:12   machines from there it says even to the [TS]

00:30:13   Indian machines into the indian food was [TS]

00:30:15   better than the native stuff and they [TS]

00:30:17   were closed for the women of other than [TS]

00:30:19   gray homespun which was a very important [TS]

00:30:22   thing like there are no women on this [TS]

00:30:25   planet that we're talking about the only [TS]

00:30:27   information that we get about them is [TS]

00:30:29   that they like to have their clothes [TS]

00:30:30   that are more colorful that imported [TS]

00:30:32   from other planets yeah [TS]

00:30:33   yep yeah and then you get that the one [TS]

00:30:36   female character who really has a whole [TS]

00:30:39   lot going on is a teenage girl [TS]

00:30:41   arcadia or Arkady I don't know how [TS]

00:30:43   you're supposed to pronounce that but so [TS]

00:30:45   you have lots of sort of condescending [TS]

00:30:47   things thrown her way at least she has [TS]

00:30:49   some sort of inner life which i [TS]

00:30:50   appreciate but you know her dad's asking [TS]

00:30:52   her if you're going to pretend you're 19 [TS]

00:30:55   what he what he gonna do when you're 25 [TS]

00:30:57   and all the boys think you're 30 and [TS]

00:31:01   and the other fellow telling his father [TS]

00:31:03   to to shoot whoever this girl is [TS]

00:31:05   planning on marrying someday because she [TS]

00:31:07   is just she has her own mind is so [TS]

00:31:09   headstrong that that would be a terrible [TS]

00:31:11   thing for anyone that wants to marry her [TS]

00:31:13   yeah you know the part that says early [TS]

00:31:17   for me is really the book When Harry [TS]

00:31:20   Seldon somebody is talking about oh you [TS]

00:31:22   have a hundred thousand people working [TS]

00:31:24   in your foundation and he's like well [TS]

00:31:26   that includes the women so quick out in [TS]

00:31:31   in my headcanon i like to think that the [TS]

00:31:33   second foundation is actually all women [TS]

00:31:35   because they're the ones who know what [TS]

00:31:36   they're doing they are often not [TS]

00:31:38   identified as anything other than write [TS]

00:31:40   the first speaker and the third speaker [TS]

00:31:42   and all of that [TS]

00:31:43   that's right and that's true what we do [TS]

00:31:45   find out who the first series but but [TS]

00:31:48   yeah like it man when he's talking about [TS]

00:31:49   the calgon the the planet of luxuries [TS]

00:31:53   and stuff he's talking about all of the [TS]

00:31:55   the people that go there [TS]

00:31:57   so you've got the dandies of the [TS]

00:31:59   imperial court there's sparklingly and [TS]

00:32:01   libidinous ladies the Ruffin raucous [TS]

00:32:03   warlords who ruled an iron the world's [TS]

00:32:06   they had gained in blood with their [TS]

00:32:07   unbridled and lascivious winches of the [TS]

00:32:10   plump and luxurious businessman of the [TS]

00:32:12   foundation with their lush mistresses I [TS]

00:32:15   was just like wow yeah that's it so the [TS]

00:32:20   only one that visit that planet are you [TS]

00:32:21   know at shays and concubines and but no [TS]

00:32:24   lush winches [TS]

00:32:25   so that's the girl in the story at the [TS]

00:32:31   end of foundation second foundation is [TS]

00:32:33   the granddaughter of of the the [TS]

00:32:37   Darrell's or Darrell's that are that are [TS]

00:32:39   there who are like traveling with that [TS]

00:32:43   with Magnifico the clown but you think [TS]

00:32:46   they're a little slow on the uptake hear [TS]

00:32:48   about Magnifico the club are most [TS]

00:32:50   dangerous individual character who could [TS]

00:32:53   upset the entire plan spends most of our [TS]

00:32:56   time with him dressed as a clown and but [TS]

00:33:02   but uh anyway the grandmother of the of [TS]

00:33:05   the of the girl in that later story [TS]

00:33:07   kills the guy who knows where the second [TS]

00:33:10   foundation is located so she is she is [TS]

00:33:13   basically the [TS]

00:33:15   the the hero at the end of that the only [TS]

00:33:17   reason she's able to do that is because [TS]

00:33:19   because she had this feminine [TS]

00:33:22   characteristics of actually liking the [TS]

00:33:25   the Magnifico or bow which is he claims [TS]

00:33:28   its original name I wish you would have [TS]

00:33:29   done with that because she liked him for [TS]

00:33:32   himself he was he decided to it to leave [TS]

00:33:36   her mind undressed like the only way [TS]

00:33:37   that she could could get past him and [TS]

00:33:40   which was just it was seem like it [TS]

00:33:41   struck me as a very gendered sort of [TS]

00:33:43   treatment for that character no surprise [TS]

00:33:45   but it does kill it kill a guy before so [TS]

00:33:47   yeah which was the wrinkles finalized [TS]

00:33:50   but yes and his head falls off which I i [TS]

00:33:53   remember that passage she blesses torso [TS]

00:33:56   and then his head falls off which is [TS]

00:33:58   kind of cool [TS]

00:33:59   it's tempting to credit Asimov's gender [TS]

00:34:03   characterizations as strictly a product [TS]

00:34:05   of the times but he did spend his entire [TS]

00:34:07   life [TS]

00:34:09   grabbing the butt of any woman who came [TS]

00:34:10   near him and I've like I said I've read [TS]

00:34:13   plenty of other novels from that time [TS]

00:34:15   actually when I was growing up I thought [TS]

00:34:17   Andre Norton was a dude because or [TS]

00:34:20   Andrew north as she also wrote a rose [TS]

00:34:22   and you know her books also had some of [TS]

00:34:26   the same you know gender norms stuff [TS]

00:34:27   going on with you know that but space [TS]

00:34:29   captain pilot is a guy but she worked in [TS]

00:34:32   a lot more women it was possible to do [TS]

00:34:34   it you know she was a very very prolific [TS]

00:34:36   and active author at the time she sold [TS]

00:34:39   just fine so it wasn't you know you know [TS]

00:34:42   having a woman in the book did not [TS]

00:34:43   necessarily kill it [TS]

00:34:44   well you know just glanced across the [TS]

00:34:46   Highland was a weirdo but he had plenty [TS]

00:34:48   of women in his books it wasn't horrible [TS]

00:34:50   anyway yeah and they were all sex [TS]

00:34:53   objects some of them were the main [TS]

00:34:54   characters of the books in fact that's [TS]

00:34:56   right [TS]

00:34:57   very to all right what else what else [TS]

00:34:58   should we talk about we could talk about [TS]

00:35:02   the lack of a Leo yeah yeah yeah this is [TS]

00:35:05   a whole galaxy with no aliens in it [TS]

00:35:08   which is refreshing [TS]

00:35:09   yeah it is kind of neat to just just [TS]

00:35:11   make that choice that the only thing [TS]

00:35:13   that we get to remotely approaching an [TS]

00:35:15   alien is a mutation in humanity itself [TS]

00:35:17   yeah i think if there were aliens that [TS]

00:35:20   would strain credibility even farther [TS]

00:35:23   with hurry Seldon's pretty great because [TS]

00:35:25   that's a random factor that would [TS]

00:35:28   impinge from the outside like you can [TS]

00:35:31   say and after 500 years you'll have a [TS]

00:35:35   local government problem and have to [TS]

00:35:37   select this type of guy is you can't [TS]

00:35:39   really say after 750 years here comes [TS]

00:35:43   the aliens invade that's right as i'm [TS]

00:35:47   sure you're aware the aliens have left [TS]

00:35:49   yeah yeah it's uh I like though I'm what [TS]

00:35:54   was it firefly was a an example of a [TS]

00:35:57   world where I think just we can set up [TS]

00:35:59   front like no aliens [TS]

00:36:00   no no aliens right and it is kind of [TS]

00:36:02   refreshing to have those they have those [TS]

00:36:04   sci-fi world or universe is where [TS]

00:36:05   they're like you know what this is gonna [TS]

00:36:07   be about the people and variations of [TS]

00:36:09   people and we're not going to this is [TS]

00:36:10   not a story about us meeting some other [TS]

00:36:13   you know other other race the monsters [TS]

00:36:16   are us where our own problems we're [TS]

00:36:18   going to have to deal with it and that's [TS]

00:36:19   the story he wants to tell here right to [TS]

00:36:21   the point where when we talked about the [TS]

00:36:23   the sack of of of transit or right um [TS]

00:36:29   they refer to it as being sacked by like [TS]

00:36:34   what [TS]

00:36:35   it's basically like space barbarians [TS]

00:36:37   space Visigoths so they don't it could [TS]

00:36:40   be aliens right you could be aliens but [TS]

00:36:42   that's not the point and we have to draw [TS]

00:36:44   he draws the parallel with Rome so [TS]

00:36:47   directly [TS]

00:36:48   it's like well suffice it to say they [TS]

00:36:50   were there were you know space [TS]

00:36:51   barbarians who came and and and attack [TS]

00:36:54   them all right no aliens is this is not [TS]

00:36:57   a story about aliens right it's a story [TS]

00:36:59   about humanity in all its forms [TS]

00:37:00   including its mutant forms apparently is [TS]

00:37:03   you're looking for aliens don't read the [TS]

00:37:05   foundation or really any of its mother's [TS]

00:37:08   sure he doesn't want some no I mean most [TS]

00:37:10   one of the things that I that I liked [TS]

00:37:12   about reading his books that are also [TS]

00:37:15   upset in this universe is the fact that [TS]

00:37:16   they're all sort of settings universe [TS]

00:37:18   you see trends or right here in a whole [TS]

00:37:19   bunch of his other his other works and [TS]

00:37:21   I've always been the kind of the candy [TS]

00:37:23   kid that that like to just spot those [TS]

00:37:25   little easter egg things and be able to [TS]

00:37:27   kind of hook stuff together so but [TS]

00:37:30   regardless of the quality of whichever [TS]

00:37:32   of his books i was reading at the time I [TS]

00:37:34   always dug it when I saw a connection to [TS]

00:37:36   something else so I like the idea that [TS]

00:37:39   was another reason the second time i [TS]

00:37:40   read the foundation that I [TS]

00:37:41   is much more into it because I recognize [TS]

00:37:43   that this you know huge sweeping story [TS]

00:37:46   actually probably enclosed a decent [TS]

00:37:49   number of the other books that I like or [TS]

00:37:51   that they proceeded in the same world [TS]

00:37:53   see I never really bought the [TS]

00:37:54   connections because maybe just because i [TS]

00:37:57   had read the publication date but it [TS]

00:37:59   seems very clear to me he had written [TS]

00:38:00   three different sets of stories and then [TS]

00:38:04   someone said you know I what I bet would [TS]

00:38:07   sell foundation meeting empire he said [TS]

00:38:10   different Empire ok here we go far and [TS]

00:38:14   wait girls that's the sleeves put some [TS]

00:38:16   stuff in the typewriter and not to go [TS]

00:38:18   two hours later he has a novel huh [TS]

00:38:21   nothing at all fits I just like it well [TS]

00:38:23   he's playing in his own universes and [TS]

00:38:24   then also connecting the dots because [TS]

00:38:26   what wouldn't that be fun wouldn't blow [TS]

00:38:28   their minds if they ran into daniel over [TS]

00:38:30   on the moon right and it totally worked [TS]

00:38:33   for me my mind was blown [TS]

00:38:35   yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean III fell into [TS]

00:38:38   him back at the end of elementary school [TS]

00:38:40   but i but I started with the caves of [TS]

00:38:43   steel and the naked son because they [TS]

00:38:45   were mysteries it awakened you know this [TS]

00:38:48   is cool you have any of those on my [TS]

00:38:50   shelf right here to my favorites and and [TS]

00:38:52   then sort of fell into the foundation [TS]

00:38:54   books from there and and so yeah it was [TS]

00:38:56   it was neat to see these vague [TS]

00:38:57   connections between everything you go [TS]

00:38:59   and you go okay there's this green [TS]

00:39:01   scheme and then yeah in through the [TS]

00:39:03   eighties as he started pulling them all [TS]

00:39:05   together i liked them less and less and [TS]

00:39:07   i still have not read most of the later [TS]

00:39:11   books just because it did I didn't [TS]

00:39:14   believe the connections it just didn't [TS]

00:39:16   work for me at a certain point i also [TS]

00:39:17   don't believe they're written by azimoff [TS]

00:39:19   we eventually if if if they are even [TS]

00:39:23   it's 35 40 years later right so even if [TS]

00:39:26   it's him [TS]

00:39:27   yeah it's not the same guy it's a it's a [TS]

00:39:30   much later and easy you know when it's a [TS]

00:39:32   cash grab and yeah I like it when he's [TS]

00:39:35   young and hungry [TS]

00:39:39   well and i agree i don't like the sort [TS]

00:39:42   of loose connection of the original [TS]

00:39:44   stories and you know and like giving the [TS]

00:39:47   Martian Chronicles with Bradbury and [TS]

00:39:49   just these things that are sort of these [TS]

00:39:51   loosely linked short stories [TS]

00:39:54   I really like that and I thought he was [TS]

00:39:56   much better that than he was in the [TS]

00:39:58   later books where he's trying to do a [TS]

00:40:00   novel it's a big thing like yeah that is [TS]

00:40:04   interesting [TS]

00:40:05   a couple of notes i had I them get back [TS]

00:40:07   to the mule for a second it is out like [TS]

00:40:09   a Hail Mary I do i do feel like the mule [TS]

00:40:11   is there because like what am I gonna do [TS]

00:40:13   now I got it i'll have this guy he's got [TS]

00:40:16   powers and he's going to confuse people [TS]

00:40:18   what I do like about the way the meal is [TS]

00:40:20   treated it is is not not his [TS]

00:40:22   he's horrible appearance he's a skinny [TS]

00:40:24   guy with a big nose that's like yeah no [TS]

00:40:27   yeah no yeah Ronnie guy get on a guy [TS]

00:40:30   with the big nose he can't be in charge [TS]

00:40:31   of anything but um but he is I like that [TS]

00:40:34   he's a cipher that he has no name that [TS]

00:40:37   has given other than Bobo and ben 10 and [TS]

00:40:40   his clown names he has no name and I I [TS]

00:40:44   think that's that actually is [TS]

00:40:46   interesting that he's he's a mystery and [TS]

00:40:48   a cipher and and we don't really [TS]

00:40:50   understand who he is or where he came [TS]

00:40:52   from i think that's kind of fun and also [TS]

00:40:54   in the car in a context of it being this [TS]

00:40:56   story maybe depending on your [TS]

00:40:59   perspective you a story told from a [TS]

00:41:01   thousand years hence when they're [TS]

00:41:02   looking back in history of the galaxy [TS]

00:41:03   that led to the reestablishment of the [TS]

00:41:05   of the galactic empire that they don't [TS]

00:41:07   know like the the rest of the details [TS]

00:41:10   have been lost in time and I think [TS]

00:41:11   that's I I get a little vibe of that [TS]

00:41:14   from this too so I think that those are [TS]

00:41:16   things i like about the mule is that the [TS]

00:41:17   mule is not we don't get a lot of like [TS]

00:41:19   why does the mule do you can do what he [TS]

00:41:22   does like who knows he's angry he's [TS]

00:41:25   angry and his powers i found one of the [TS]

00:41:27   the best scenes in the book is when a [TS]

00:41:29   picture pretty thorough is walking to [TS]

00:41:34   meet the mule in the palace that he's [TS]

00:41:36   taken over and he he's walking down this [TS]

00:41:39   like mile long road to get to the palace [TS]

00:41:41   and nobody's around there are no guards [TS]

00:41:42   and as an off it explains it doesn't [TS]

00:41:46   need guards because he can control minds [TS]

00:41:48   so the whole Palace is just empty except [TS]

00:41:50   for the mule and his little spider yeah [TS]

00:41:52   when he gets to the office is like you [TS]

00:41:53   don't even need to look at them you can [TS]

00:41:55   just turn away and it's fine it's cool [TS]

00:41:57   because he he knows everything you're [TS]

00:41:59   thinking it's ok it's creepy it is that [TS]

00:42:01   is it is creepy and speaking look at the [TS]

00:42:03   history books books one of the things [TS]

00:42:05   that features heavily in these books [TS]

00:42:07   at the beginning especially is the [TS]

00:42:09   Encyclopedia Galactica which as we [TS]

00:42:11   mentioned is a front it's a fake it if [TS]

00:42:16   you die i enjoy that that we're gonna [TS]

00:42:18   set up this big thing and it's going to [TS]

00:42:19   be really good and it's going to [TS]

00:42:20   preserve its going to preserve knowledge [TS]

00:42:23   but behind the scenes we have plans to [TS]

00:42:26   control the future [TS]

00:42:28   I like that and I also of course like [TS]

00:42:30   that because the Encyclopedia Galactica [TS]

00:42:31   referenced specifically in Hitchhiker's [TS]

00:42:35   Guide to the galaxy books as the stuffy [TS]

00:42:37   annoying everything thing that everybody [TS]

00:42:40   knows that's available for the galaxy [TS]

00:42:42   much less interesting than the [TS]

00:42:44   hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy which [TS]

00:42:45   is what all the hoopla fruits you know [TS]

00:42:47   where their towel is you know that this [TS]

00:42:49   is that what they read they don't read [TS]

00:42:51   dumb old encyclopedia chol speaking of [TS]

00:42:53   this the stuffiness the encyclopedia [TS]

00:42:54   that is one of the things that drew me [TS]

00:42:56   in towards the beginning with I was sort [TS]

00:42:58   of moved by the plight of harding having [TS]

00:43:01   to argue against all of these stuffy [TS]

00:43:02   scholars before they found out that the [TS]

00:43:04   Encyclopedia was a front and you just [TS]

00:43:06   get these cranky old men who are like [TS]

00:43:08   it's all about the books there's nothing [TS]

00:43:09   else going on here this is so important [TS]

00:43:11   you shouldn't you know care about [TS]

00:43:12   anything else and then they just get [TS]

00:43:14   like totally beat down and it was just [TS]

00:43:16   like you know pumping my fist like hi [TS]

00:43:19   suck it old dudes but but the story is [TS]

00:43:22   around these these stories that you you [TS]

00:43:24   get that over and over again which is [TS]

00:43:25   people like that we've been doing this [TS]

00:43:26   for we've been doing this for years or [TS]

00:43:28   since my grandfather was here or [TS]

00:43:30   whatever like that and and then [TS]

00:43:31   something changes because that's he [TS]

00:43:33   wants to get across that timescale thing [TS]

00:43:35   that you know Harry Sultan's plan is [TS]

00:43:37   working on to the surface and you know [TS]

00:43:38   you i love that people commit their [TS]

00:43:40   entire lives and careers to this thing [TS]

00:43:42   that's just a front like this that's [TS]

00:43:45   hilarious yeah after them [TS]

00:43:48   no it's very sad for them well if they [TS]

00:43:51   weren't so jerky about it i wouldn't [TS]

00:43:52   take so much pleasure mr. got to see the [TS]

00:43:54   big picture here which they they don't [TS]

00:43:56   that they didn't need to see the big [TS]

00:43:58   picture they were Stooges I do like a [TS]

00:44:01   kind of a correlation to that is so the [TS]

00:44:05   foundation is set up because Harry 7 has [TS]

00:44:07   a plan and they know his plan and so the [TS]

00:44:09   rest of the galaxy knows about it as [TS]

00:44:11   well but they don't really know anything [TS]

00:44:13   about it so there's this whole religion [TS]

00:44:15   that the foundation builds up around [TS]

00:44:17   itself right you know give technology to [TS]

00:44:20   the barbarians [TS]

00:44:21   and you know preach to these people and [TS]

00:44:23   so the rest of the galaxy kind of has a [TS]

00:44:25   chip on his shoulder because the [TS]

00:44:26   foundation people know what's going to [TS]

00:44:28   happen in the future even though they [TS]

00:44:29   don't really but they feel like they're [TS]

00:44:31   predict protected by this plan and [TS]

00:44:33   they're they're winning is inevitable so [TS]

00:44:35   they don't really have to do anything so [TS]

00:44:36   they at all the galaxies hates them and [TS]

00:44:38   then the second foundation is introduced [TS]

00:44:41   and the foundation finds out that they [TS]

00:44:42   are themselves being manipulated by [TS]

00:44:45   another group and they get angry and I [TS]

00:44:48   just find that amusing [TS]

00:44:50   well and that and the life cycles are [TS]

00:44:52   some real-time follow-up from our chat [TS]

00:44:53   room on you know the lifecycle is [TS]

00:44:55   definitely sketched out by him about [TS]

00:44:56   we're going to go through this phase in [TS]

00:44:58   this phase in this phase and he's [TS]

00:44:59   thinking of the big picture and I think [TS]

00:45:00   that I think that's a really interesting [TS]

00:45:02   i did have one one thing which i want to [TS]

00:45:05   mention about the mule which is the [TS]

00:45:07   Mules goal is basically to take over [TS]

00:45:09   everything so at one point I I kept [TS]

00:45:12   waiting for the foundation people to be [TS]

00:45:15   like hey it turns out we don't need a [TS]

00:45:17   thousand years of Darkness jizz we can [TS]

00:45:19   do 500 because there's this guy and he's [TS]

00:45:22   gonna use his powers to unite the galaxy [TS]

00:45:23   and he's he's got like birth defects and [TS]

00:45:27   is going to die in the next 10 years and [TS]

00:45:29   then there's an empire so yay let's just [TS]

00:45:32   go let's go auntie mule but instead [TS]

00:45:34   they're like no no Harry Sullivan didn't [TS]

00:45:36   write anything about this we gotta kill [TS]

00:45:37   this guy [TS]

00:45:38   we gotta get rid of this guy I think the [TS]

00:45:40   problem there is that once he dies the [TS]

00:45:42   like the foundation of his no pun [TS]

00:45:44   intended [TS]

00:45:44   acha other companies rule of his rule is [TS]

00:45:48   it falls apart because he is only able [TS]

00:45:50   to keep people you know basically will [TS]

00:45:53   have one generation of people who are [TS]

00:45:55   loyal to him because he or you know he [TS]

00:45:58   could make them loyal to the ideals of [TS]

00:45:59   peace or whatever but without the [TS]

00:46:01   Foundation's grand plan which will bring [TS]

00:46:04   everything together be whatever it ends [TS]

00:46:06   up being at the time economics or force [TS]

00:46:08   or mental powers who knows we go get [TS]

00:46:12   that far in these three books but i [TS]

00:46:14   think that that they they might not have [TS]

00:46:16   known a lot about psychohistory but they [TS]

00:46:18   recognized enough to know that his [TS]

00:46:20   taking over was not not something that [TS]

00:46:23   could actually last for very long and [TS]

00:46:25   wasn't he wasn't stupid internet but [TS]

00:46:26   within forty thousand years of of crap [TS]

00:46:29   afterwards and then there's no more [TS]

00:46:30   hairy sell them to come up with a plan i [TS]

00:46:32   think the biggest problem is that the [TS]

00:46:33   mule was [TS]

00:46:34   interested in getting be the foundation [TS]

00:46:36   plan on on schedule right he want he he [TS]

00:46:40   was in tech mystic to them and he was [TS]

00:46:41   going to do things you know he's trying [TS]

00:46:43   to root them out instead of being like [TS]

00:46:44   guys guys I can help [TS]

00:46:46   he was not interested in helping because [TS]

00:46:47   he was a very bitter angry mutant nobody [TS]

00:46:50   ever helped him now an ugly cancer and [TS]

00:46:52   it was really yeah I sometimes had to [TS]

00:46:55   fight to not picture him as like a like [TS]

00:46:57   a mule like I i was born with the Mules [TS]

00:47:01   head that's why he wears the clown [TS]

00:47:05   outfit interactive visual head is this [TS]

00:47:08   granny guy with a big nose [TS]

00:47:10   yeah that's it although i did like oh [TS]

00:47:12   you know speaking of the Seldon plan and [TS]

00:47:15   you mentioned Jason the the hollow q [TS]

00:47:18   where Harry seldom appears oh yeah at [TS]

00:47:20   Planned moments when there's a Seldon [TS]

00:47:22   crisis over everybody go when that's [TS]

00:47:24   gonna happen but he just shows up and is [TS]

00:47:26   like hey I'm going to give you a vague a [TS]

00:47:29   advice that isn't really a nice about [TS]

00:47:32   what you're about to do this i recorded [TS]

00:47:33   this 200 years ago [TS]

00:47:35   exactly and then confuse you more and [TS]

00:47:37   then vanish but feel free to sit down if [TS]

00:47:40   you're standing and smoke [TS]

00:47:43   yeah everybody spoke it would have been [TS]

00:47:45   more realistic if eventually Hari Seldon [TS]

00:47:47   was speaking in the language none of [TS]

00:47:49   them understood [TS]

00:47:50   huh together they get the old the old [TS]

00:47:53   galactic scholars there to translate [TS]

00:47:56   yeah because I i personally am NOT great [TS]

00:47:59   at whatever they were speaking in 1100 [TS]

00:48:02   yeah sure the base Latin I guess so the [TS]

00:48:06   one that's true but i like that so he [TS]

00:48:08   sets it up and everytime seldom appears [TS]

00:48:10   he is right because he has a plan and [TS]

00:48:12   then the mule appears and one of the [TS]

00:48:15   people has figured out done a little [TS]

00:48:17   psychohistory is like oh I know I seldom [TS]

00:48:19   crisis is approaching that means cells [TS]

00:48:20   going to appear and tell us what to do [TS]

00:48:22   so let's go down to the the time bunker [TS]

00:48:24   or whatever the heck they called it i [TS]

00:48:25   forget and he'll tell us what to do and [TS]

00:48:28   that he appears and he's like as you [TS]

00:48:29   know you are currently in a civil war [TS]

00:48:31   and the traders and they're like what [TS]

00:48:33   this is nothing to do with what's going [TS]

00:48:35   on I just enjoyed that moment everybody [TS]

00:48:38   everyone's freaking out and the meal was [TS]

00:48:41   there as well spoiler alert i also like [TS]

00:48:44   the idea that he's sometimes talking to [TS]

00:48:46   an empty room [TS]

00:48:47   yes that said because they you know they [TS]

00:48:49   didn't bother to show up because they [TS]

00:48:51   you know they they fix the Seldon crisis [TS]

00:48:53   is crazy themselves so they didn't go [TS]

00:48:55   and listen to what he had to say like I [TS]

00:48:57   would want to be there even if we manage [TS]

00:48:59   to solve it i would bet the dude from [TS]

00:49:01   hundreds of years ago is just going up [TS]

00:49:03   here and start talking to us out of the [TS]

00:49:05   past that's pretty interesting [TS]

00:49:06   he's the guy that's the architect of [TS]

00:49:07   everything that's happening now you [TS]

00:49:08   don't want to go and check bill no let's [TS]

00:49:10   give on video just given video at least [TS]

00:49:12   right yeah their entire society is based [TS]

00:49:15   on this guy in his writings just have [TS]

00:49:19   somebody's station down there to go [TS]

00:49:21   oh hey guys George Washington said [TS]

00:49:23   something else should really be somebody [TS]

00:49:26   down there all the time just in case [TS]

00:49:29   like I i would totally station somebody [TS]

00:49:31   down there you know it's an easy job you [TS]

00:49:33   can read the comic books and stuff for [TS]

00:49:34   your book book films put a woman down [TS]

00:49:36   there [TS]

00:49:37   she's got to secretary [TS]

00:49:41   ya know just have one of those dictation [TS]

00:49:42   machines and their galleons going down [TS]

00:49:46   it's a great idea within people would [TS]

00:49:48   sneak in there and say I'm Harry [TS]

00:49:49   soldered and I say Scott should have a [TS]

00:49:51   race that's how are they storing all [TS]

00:49:55   their information right before things [TS]

00:49:59   started like during prelude to [TS]

00:50:01   foundation couldn't they have just like [TS]

00:50:03   saved whatever their current version of [TS]

00:50:05   wikipedia is it's weird that there was [TS]

00:50:10   no storage of all of their knowledge at [TS]

00:50:13   that point it got overwritten I think [TS]

00:50:16   the Encyclopedia Galactica has all that [TS]

00:50:18   stuff in stacks and the library at rant [TS]

00:50:22   or was existence so you could still go [TS]

00:50:24   there was it was hiding the second [TS]

00:50:26   foundation they might might your wipe [TS]

00:50:28   your mind when you try to check out a [TS]

00:50:30   book or something haha shit you can [TS]

00:50:32   check into the library but you can check [TS]

00:50:35   out [TS]

00:50:36   mhm just questioning the need for a [TS]

00:50:39   encyclopedia foundation starting from [TS]

00:50:43   scratch it was a front-mounted well it [TS]

00:50:45   was yeah it's also everything there was [TS]

00:50:48   no need you know encyclopedia salesmen [TS]

00:50:50   they really talk a good [TS]

00:50:51   game a big head and very seldom the [TS]

00:50:55   ultimates encyclopedia salesman can i [TS]

00:50:58   interest you in a galaxy-spanning [TS]

00:51:00   foundation today [TS]

00:51:02   your kids will thank you well there many [TS]

00:51:06   generations hence will thank you [TS]

00:51:07   mm what do you say we started with [TS]

00:51:09   volume na to NB anything more about [TS]

00:51:12   foundation before we moved to what we're [TS]

00:51:14   reading is to love it i still enjoy it [TS]

00:51:16   its comfort reading for yeah it goes [TS]

00:51:19   down pretty quick huh [TS]

00:51:20   Astrid my big ideas don't like them you [TS]

00:51:23   also might actually enjoy i do enjoy the [TS]

00:51:25   part with the meal I feel like it's a [TS]

00:51:26   completely different style of story you [TS]

00:51:28   know we get the world spanning [TS]

00:51:30   foundation eat stuff at the beginning [TS]

00:51:33   and then it takes a turn it just sort of [TS]

00:51:34   becomes a zoom bang you know [TS]

00:51:37   edge-of-your-seat excitement kind of a [TS]

00:51:39   thing which is not the same type of [TS]

00:51:41   storytelling as at the beginning so I [TS]

00:51:43   enjoy it but on a very different whale [TS]

00:51:45   yeah it's kind of a daring move and I [TS]

00:51:47   proved that he could have kept turning [TS]

00:51:50   out and then they ran into another [TS]

00:51:53   problem and then they solved it and Hari [TS]

00:51:55   Seldon appeared a good job and he winks [TS]

00:51:58   link [TS]

00:51:59   yeah I enjoy the the section titles for [TS]

00:52:02   the second foundation two men in the [TS]

00:52:05   mule two men without the meal two men [TS]

00:52:07   and a peasant two men and the elders one [TS]

00:52:09   man in the mule one-man the mule and [TS]

00:52:11   another seem straightforward [TS]

00:52:15   it's good stuff three men and a baby was [TS]

00:52:17   in there too but now that 13 min Emil [TS]

00:52:21   and a baby to two-and-a-half mules for [TS]

00:52:23   the meal can have a baby so now too [TS]

00:52:26   yeah and one you and nobody else and [TS]

00:52:29   that's why his soul tragic you see em [TS]

00:52:33   rights that's what it ends right I'm [TS]

00:52:35   called the mule that's not why I'm [TS]

00:52:37   called the mule and he walks off sadly [TS]

00:52:39   in for that was very abrupt and yeah so [TS]

00:52:44   anyway he wasn't that big a thread man [TS]

00:52:46   nevermind then we have our mentalists [TS]

00:52:51   who can out mental the mental mutant [TS]

00:52:53   antsy to get done [TS]

00:52:55   yeah but i would say people who are [TS]

00:52:58   listening you kids out there with your [TS]

00:53:00   fancy science fiction go to your library [TS]

00:53:02   checkout foundation [TS]

00:53:04   and read it yeah and if you are very [TS]

00:53:08   careful you may discover it at in the in [TS]

00:53:11   the basement of your library a secret [TS]

00:53:12   door that leads to a no to a bunker to [TS]

00:53:16   bunker containing the second foundation [TS]

00:53:18   especially containing a hologram of an [TS]

00:53:20   old man [TS]

00:53:21   yes I believe that's literally the plot [TS]

00:53:24   of the librarians yeah you're right [TS]

00:53:26   there [TS]

00:53:27   I think you're right hello I think [TS]

00:53:29   you're right and another was a line [TS]

00:53:31   about librarians it in this 10 that [TS]

00:53:35   whatever his name was he says I'm no man [TS]

00:53:36   of action [TS]

00:53:37   no hero of any tell you I'm a library [TS]

00:53:39   and ok which I did sell didn't spend [TS]

00:53:43   recording these like was it just all [TS]

00:53:46   with a row in one day [TS]

00:53:47   yeah that 1i soon i like to think that [TS]

00:53:50   he had a computer program he actually [TS]

00:53:52   recorded hundreds of them in the corner [TS]

00:53:54   program was monitoring what's happening [TS]

00:53:57   in global affairs and then he would pick [TS]

00:53:59   put the computer would put out the right [TS]

00:54:01   one like oh this is number this is [TS]

00:54:03   situation 83 and then put that one yeah [TS]

00:54:05   he recorded all of the important [TS]

00:54:07   phonemes so they could just construct [TS]

00:54:09   any speed needed now and in fact he [TS]

00:54:12   probably did a whole riff on alien [TS]

00:54:13   invasion was like hey guys I didn't [TS]

00:54:15   foresee this you're on your own [TS]

00:54:18   good luck I mean that I'm dead here are [TS]

00:54:20   the plans for a ray gun and then [TS]

00:54:23   occasionally you'd have one that's been [TS]

00:54:24   like you know it looks like you're [TS]

00:54:26   having an alien invasion emergency [TS]

00:54:29   that's a totally different voice would [TS]

00:54:31   you like some help with that [TS]

00:54:32   I you know I like to think that there's [TS]

00:54:36   a director they're saying Harry that was [TS]

00:54:37   great just one more take if you could do [TS]

00:54:39   a little more proof that the one thing [TS]

00:54:40   or it's for science theory is kind of [TS]

00:54:43   like foundations Clippy alright well [TS]

00:54:47   there is kids you've heard it's got [TS]

00:54:49   McNulty has told you go to your library [TS]

00:54:51   and check out foundation to it now [TS]

00:54:54   yeah if you want to open or by cop you [TS]

00:54:57   could do that too if you'd like to [TS]

00:54:58   enrich the estate of isaac asimov you [TS]

00:55:01   may do like Scott did with his fancy [TS]

00:55:03   leather-bound volume i did indeed [TS]

00:55:05   doesn't read better doesn't read better [TS]

00:55:07   in a fancy leather-bound volumes come [TS]

00:55:09   that actually leather-bound this club [TS]

00:55:11   and that's it [TS]

00:55:13   did you choose proud not get the letter [TS]

00:55:15   around restraint was from the every [TS]

00:55:17   man's library it is a lovely addition [TS]

00:55:20   except for the aforementioned [TS]

00:55:21   misappropriated ! Sam that all right [TS]

00:55:26   well let's move on and do something I [TS]

00:55:28   like to do whenever we have a book club [TS]

00:55:30   which is get a little taste of what [TS]

00:55:32   other people are reading or have read [TS]

00:55:34   recently that they like to mention gives [TS]

00:55:37   you some ideas of other things that you [TS]

00:55:38   might like to read [TS]

00:55:39   Scott what are you reading I am reading [TS]

00:55:42   well i have recently read yes a book [TS]

00:55:45   called the trader Peru cormorant by Seth [TS]

00:55:49   dickinson which I really loved but I [TS]

00:55:53   hesitate to recommend it to anyone [TS]

00:55:56   because much like I love KJ parker who [TS]

00:56:01   who writes these kind of fantasy novels [TS]

00:56:04   that are there's no magic and there's [TS]

00:56:07   just lots of pain and betrayal and [TS]

00:56:10   heartbreak and at the end you just [TS]

00:56:11   dissatisfied because everyone's unhappy [TS]

00:56:14   this is the same kind of thing and it's [TS]

00:56:17   right in the title the the main [TS]

00:56:19   character biru quorum and is a traitor [TS]

00:56:21   and so she betrays everybody in a very [TS]

00:56:27   elaborate scheme to get revenge on this [TS]

00:56:31   empire that takes over her homeland and [TS]

00:56:33   it's very interesting book and i really [TS]

00:56:35   like it but I can imagine some people [TS]

00:56:37   getting to the end of the book and [TS]

00:56:38   feeling quite cheated so if you can [TS]

00:56:42   stomach that check it out because it's a [TS]

00:56:44   good read Erica what are you reading [TS]

00:56:46   I've been reading so much lately so i [TS]

00:56:48   will try to make hopefully it's quick [TS]

00:56:50   I've just been on quite a book jag so [TS]

00:56:52   besides just frantically finishing be [TS]

00:56:55   the foundation trilogy today huh that [TS]

00:56:58   was that was i finished adjusting time I [TS]

00:57:01   kind of fell asleep i was reading it so [TS]

00:57:03   then i had to wake up music plays games [TS]

00:57:05   can be made it most recently before that [TS]

00:57:08   i read a trilogy of books by jamie moyer [TS]

00:57:12   the first is called delius shadow and [TS]

00:57:14   they are sort of supernatural detective [TS]

00:57:17   stories but they're kind of two main [TS]

00:57:20   characters one is Delia and one is a [TS]

00:57:22   detective and they there are murder [TS]

00:57:25   mysteries but [TS]

00:57:26   there are also ghost so she sees ghosts [TS]

00:57:28   and the other guys that Detective and it [TS]

00:57:30   was one of those series where when I was [TS]

00:57:32   finished reading it I went for like [TS]

00:57:34   several days where i would like reach [TS]

00:57:36   for the book for my kindle expecting to [TS]

00:57:39   jump back into this world and then [TS]

00:57:40   remember i had finished them and it was [TS]

00:57:42   so sad so if you like the supernatural [TS]

00:57:45   kind of thing or mysteries i recommend [TS]

00:57:47   checking this out because i thought they [TS]

00:57:48   were excellent and they take place um [TS]

00:57:50   like the 1910s so you get all kinds of [TS]

00:57:52   interesting in San Francisco interesting [TS]

00:57:55   you feel like you're really in that [TS]

00:57:57   place at that time after the earthquake [TS]

00:57:59   in the fire and then during the war [TS]

00:58:02   it's a really good reads before that I [TS]

00:58:05   was following up on i had started [TS]

00:58:09   reading now John Scalzi is old man war [TS]

00:58:11   series all old man's war series a long [TS]

00:58:13   time ago and just jump back into it and [TS]

00:58:16   read Zoe's tail in the ghost brigades [TS]

00:58:19   and last colony and now I'm realizing [TS]

00:58:23   that it's been so long since i read old [TS]

00:58:24   man swear that I have to go back and [TS]

00:58:26   reread it because I really remember [TS]

00:58:27   going to happen to they kept referring [TS]

00:58:28   to things and I was like I know I'm [TS]

00:58:30   supposed to know what this is but i [TS]

00:58:31   really don't [TS]

00:58:32   so that's next on my list and then an [TS]

00:58:36   author that I just love for sort of like [TS]

00:58:38   light comfort reading is Sarah Addison [TS]

00:58:40   allen and she came out with a new book [TS]

00:58:42   like a year ago which I finally got [TS]

00:58:43   around to reading i read the first page [TS]

00:58:45   realized it was a sequel to one of her [TS]

00:58:47   other books so then I had to go back and [TS]

00:58:49   read the first book so the first one is [TS]

00:58:50   garden spells and the newer one is [TS]

00:58:53   called first frost and it is about a [TS]

00:58:55   family in a southern town I think like [TS]

00:58:59   it's somewhere in the Carolinas who has [TS]

00:59:01   family magic there's a an apple tree in [TS]

00:59:04   the backyard that will throw apples at [TS]

00:59:06   people and if you eat one of the apples [TS]

00:59:07   you see either wonderful or terrifying [TS]

00:59:10   terrifying vision of the future and one [TS]

00:59:12   of them is a she's caterer and the food [TS]

00:59:16   that she makes with the ingredients from [TS]

00:59:18   the garden can make people do or see or [TS]

00:59:20   feel things and just each character has [TS]

00:59:22   their own sort of thing and it's it's [TS]

00:59:24   kind of wonderful so read both of those [TS]

00:59:26   and last but not least just before that [TS]

00:59:29   I zipped through the Fallen blade series [TS]

00:59:31   by kelly McCullough super super fast [TS]

00:59:34   because they were really good to start [TS]

00:59:35   with and just got better with each book [TS]

00:59:37   and that's about a assassin who was an [TS]

00:59:40   assassin in in thrall to a goddess of [TS]

00:59:44   justice and then the goddess was killed [TS]

00:59:46   so he just basically became kind of a a [TS]

00:59:49   back alley you know jerk for higher kind [TS]

00:59:52   of and alcoholic and it's overly of all [TS]

00:59:56   for that he should apparently it's sweet [TS]

00:59:56   for that he should apparently it's sweet [TS]

01:00:00   it's sort of a story of of his [TS]

01:00:02   Redemption and there's a lot of other [TS]

01:00:04   characters that revolve around him so [TS]

01:00:06   many strong female characters in these [TS]

01:00:08   books it is just I mean the main [TS]

01:00:10   character happens to be a guy but [TS]

01:00:12   there's absolutely no difference in what [TS]

01:00:14   it's so different from the educational [TS]

01:00:16   books no difference between what a man [TS]

01:00:18   and a woman in this world there are [TS]

01:00:20   expected to do and it's so well built [TS]

01:00:24   the entire world is just constructed [TS]

01:00:25   very well around these characters so it [TS]

01:00:28   was a that was another one where once I [TS]

01:00:30   finished it I was really sad because [TS]

01:00:32   there were no more and I couldn't go [TS]

01:00:33   back into that world so i highly [TS]

01:00:35   recommend the the Fallen blade series by [TS]

01:00:39   killing McCullough alright so there you [TS]

01:00:41   go that's all the books [TS]

01:00:43   yeah i've been reading so much Wow David [TS]

01:00:45   what are you reading [TS]

01:00:46   well i actually just read Zoe's tail a [TS]

01:00:50   couple weeks ago [TS]

01:00:51   yeah that's the one that got me into [TS]

01:00:52   that series that's the 1i regulate it [TS]

01:00:54   was because it was a hugo nominee and so [TS]

01:00:56   I read that now I go this is good and [TS]

01:00:57   then I went back and I read all the [TS]

01:00:58   other guy i read the mostly street [TS]

01:01:00   chronologically and I just skipped over [TS]

01:01:04   that one somehow so I'm kind of going [TS]

01:01:06   back and going oh yeah I remember this [TS]

01:01:07   part of the story [TS]

01:01:08   cool i accidentally skip to that [TS]

01:01:10   actually after just reading old man's [TS]

01:01:12   war [TS]

01:01:12   oh and then went back to philly in which [TS]

01:01:15   is why I need to go back and reread old [TS]

01:01:17   man's were affected and I'm all i order [TS]

01:01:19   so i might as well so but yeah right now [TS]

01:01:20   the the novel that i'm reading reading [TS]

01:01:23   i'm sort of skipping between two books [TS]

01:01:25   right now I'm reading welcome to night [TS]

01:01:27   Vale by Jeffrey Cranor and Joseph think [TS]

01:01:30   which is of course tied to the podcast [TS]

01:01:33   welcome to night Vale but you don't [TS]

01:01:36   necessarily have to have listened to the [TS]

01:01:38   series two to get it this is designed to [TS]

01:01:41   be just as much of an entry point for [TS]

01:01:45   new readers it is weird and if you do [TS]

01:01:49   know the show you know that it's going [TS]

01:01:51   to be weird but it is delightful [TS]

01:01:56   so yeah I'm about a third of the way [TS]

01:01:57   through that and it's it's setting up [TS]

01:01:59   two parallel stories that are converging [TS]

01:02:02   slowly and [TS]

01:02:04   I kinda like that it's a little more [TS]

01:02:06   ambitious than the podcast in some ways [TS]

01:02:09   and then on the nonfiction side i am [TS]

01:02:13   reading Tesla inventor of the electric [TS]

01:02:17   age by w Bernard girls and which should [TS]

01:02:21   surprise nobody not i mean it's not like [TS]

01:02:25   I felt that I had to do a lot of [TS]

01:02:27   research because I mean the Tesla radio [TS]

01:02:29   shows are very specifically not really [TS]

01:02:32   Nikola Tesla what is he's not exactly a [TS]

01:02:35   two-fisted kind of guy that's why I got [TS]

01:02:38   an F on my that's right kids there are [TS]

01:02:44   facts of these that's not one of them [TS]

01:02:46   but but i thought you know i'm i'm going [TS]

01:02:50   to go in and get some detail and it is [TS]

01:02:52   actually sort of triggering ideas for [TS]

01:02:55   future episodes [TS]

01:02:56   not that I need more ideas i could do a [TS]

01:02:57   whole series of just Tesla stories at [TS]

01:02:59   yeah which is scary [TS]

01:03:01   yeah but it is a lot of fun and it is [TS]

01:03:05   very interesting to see just you know [TS]

01:03:07   how much how much already knew about him [TS]

01:03:11   but how much I had no idea about so it's [TS]

01:03:14   quite fascinating and and just little [TS]

01:03:17   things like the the invention of radio I [TS]

01:03:19   mean everyone knows Marconi invented [TS]

01:03:21   radio well Tesla really invented radio [TS]

01:03:23   Marconi just sort of snuck in there with [TS]

01:03:27   the copyrights so yeah that happened to [TS]

01:03:30   him a lot which is why he died destitute [TS]

01:03:34   and obsessed with pigeons in the new [TS]

01:03:36   yorker hotel but it is it is fascinating [TS]

01:03:39   to learn more about the Real guy so all [TS]

01:03:44   right Monty 40 reading well yesterday [TS]

01:03:47   finished reading razzle-dazzle the [TS]

01:03:49   battle for Broadway the book by Michael [TS]

01:03:51   Riedel which is a history of musical [TS]

01:03:55   theater in New York centered around the [TS]

01:03:57   people who own the theaters which are [TS]

01:04:00   not really the most of interesting [TS]

01:04:02   people will necessarily but there's a [TS]

01:04:05   lot more continuity there are trying to [TS]

01:04:06   follow an actor because the actors [TS]

01:04:08   careers [TS]

01:04:09   don't go too long and don't affect every [TS]

01:04:11   single play last month i finished the [TS]

01:04:15   final terry pratchett book [TS]

01:04:16   the Shepherd's crown it's very good [TS]

01:04:20   it's not really finished you can't help [TS]

01:04:23   feeling like there's thirty percent of [TS]

01:04:25   the book that didn't really get written [TS]

01:04:26   but it's also heartbreaking very early [TS]

01:04:30   on so there's a little warning people [TS]

01:04:32   oh the book i'm about to start is lemony [TS]

01:04:36   snicket's fourth book in the all the [TS]

01:04:38   wrong questions series now this is a new [TS]

01:04:42   series it's not the series of [TS]

01:04:44   unfortunate events it's kinda it's kids [TS]

01:04:48   kind of trapped in a film noir type [TS]

01:04:51   world and each of the books is titled [TS]

01:04:55   with a question that was the wrong [TS]

01:04:57   question to be asked at a certain point [TS]

01:04:59   in the plot for the first three are [TS]

01:05:01   called who could that be at this hour [TS]

01:05:03   when did you see her last and shouldn't [TS]

01:05:06   you be in school this fourth and final [TS]

01:05:09   one takes a somewhat different tack and [TS]

01:05:12   the question is why is this night [TS]

01:05:15   different from all other night haha i [TS]

01:05:19   feel like that question has been asked [TS]

01:05:21   before but apparently it was the wrong [TS]

01:05:22   one this time and i'm also trying to [TS]

01:05:26   work my way through grant morrison's [TS]

01:05:28   Doom Patrol comic books they are crazy [TS]

01:05:32   grant morrison generally it's going to [TS]

01:05:35   be crazy yeah uh-oh and i just read a [TS]

01:05:39   John crack hours to big books into thin [TS]

01:05:41   air and under the banner of heaven [TS]

01:05:43   oh very good alright they're great Jason [TS]

01:05:46   what are you reading what's got Jason I [TS]

01:05:50   wonder what you are reading it's amazing [TS]

01:05:53   that you should ask that you always seem [TS]

01:05:54   to be the one who asked that question [TS]

01:05:56   hi guys you think your church died just [TS]

01:05:59   well as mentioned earlier i finished [TS]

01:06:01   ancillary mercy the third book in the [TS]

01:06:03   Imperial raj series by and lucky i [TS]

01:06:08   enjoyed it [TS]

01:06:09   book two as we mentioned on the previous [TS]

01:06:11   podcast took me a little by surprise and [TS]

01:06:13   have a scope it felt to me was a lot [TS]

01:06:15   smaller in the third book i was [TS]

01:06:17   surprised again that rather than going [TS]

01:06:19   off to have another adventure it the the [TS]

01:06:21   book really just kind of does a u-turn [TS]

01:06:23   and goes right back to where the second [TS]

01:06:24   book happened but in in its 60 in it in [TS]

01:06:30   its run [TS]

01:06:30   and not only do you get to see more of [TS]

01:06:32   these characters you get to see her [TS]

01:06:34   payoff actually a lot of things that [TS]

01:06:36   might have more to do with the bigger [TS]

01:06:38   picture then we realized initially and i [TS]

01:06:41   think it's it's I think it's very good [TS]

01:06:42   and it's got a good ending that's Noah [TS]

01:06:44   that's very knowing about the fact that [TS]

01:06:45   while this is the end of the book that [TS]

01:06:47   the stories go on and on and I I think [TS]

01:06:49   she did a really nice job so I like that [TS]

01:06:51   one a lot i read the new expanse novella [TS]

01:06:55   vital abyss which I really enjoyed and [TS]

01:06:58   it serves three different purposes which [TS]

01:07:00   is kind of fascinating in giving some [TS]

01:07:02   some it tells a character story about an [TS]

01:07:04   interesting character who ends up in a [TS]

01:07:06   very interesting place [TS]

01:07:07   it tells a story about the sort of [TS]

01:07:10   origins of the the loosening of the [TS]

01:07:13   protomolecule on the station in the [TS]

01:07:16   first expanse book Leviathan wakes and [TS]

01:07:20   has a hint about where the story might [TS]

01:07:22   be going next involving shady characters [TS]

01:07:25   in the solar system so it's a it's an [TS]

01:07:28   interesting little combination as a as a [TS]

01:07:30   very short quick novella and I am in the [TS]

01:07:34   midst of reading the lives of tau by [TS]

01:07:36   Wesley to which I am enjoying greatly [TS]

01:07:38   and is the closest to the rook of any [TS]

01:07:42   book that i've read i think in a while [TS]

01:07:44   it's not i wouldn't say it's as good as [TS]

01:07:46   the rook but it's got kind of a feel [TS]

01:07:48   like that where it's this sort of secret [TS]

01:07:51   agent spy thing but also with a [TS]

01:07:53   completely weird a fantasy sci fi ish [TS]

01:07:58   elements so I'm enjoying that that's it [TS]

01:08:01   i still have that on my kindle haven't [TS]

01:08:03   gotten to it yet i have there for a [TS]

01:08:04   while but I'm enjoying it now I'm [TS]

01:08:06   actually I i put it aside to read to [TS]

01:08:09   rear foundation now I'm going to happily [TS]

01:08:11   go back to the lives of town [TS]

01:08:14   alright well we've reached the end then [TS]

01:08:15   we've we've come up with a big list a [TS]

01:08:17   list of books for you to read here in [TS]

01:08:19   the water we reading segment and of [TS]

01:08:21   course our advice again go to your [TS]

01:08:23   library on trent or or your nearest [TS]

01:08:25   available galactic planet and read this [TS]

01:08:28   foundation by isaac asimov and I'd like [TS]

01:08:32   to thank my guests for joining me to [TS]

01:08:33   talk about this Monte Ashley thank you [TS]

01:08:35   very much I take back what I said about [TS]

01:08:37   you being a mutant telepath I knew you [TS]

01:08:39   were going to do [TS]

01:08:40   I love you Monty and everything that you [TS]

01:08:45   think I will be loyal to you forever [TS]

01:08:48   Monty what how about I hated when I [TS]

01:08:53   didn't like you but now I like you and I [TS]

01:08:55   would anyway Scott McNulty thank you for [TS]

01:08:59   being here made the collective spirit [TS]

01:09:02   guides you Jason thank you may the force [TS]

01:09:05   be with you [TS]

01:09:08   basically sure this David lower Star [TS]

01:09:11   Wars thank you thank you I'm glad we [TS]

01:09:14   managed to get all the way through [TS]

01:09:16   without doing a Magnifico a clown clown [TS]

01:09:19   but down there it is sometimes how you [TS]

01:09:22   kill the things you land and Erica and [TS]

01:09:24   sign i'm so i'm so glad that you will [TS]

01:09:27   not just be stuck with your great [TS]

01:09:28   homespun I i am thrilled about five [TS]

01:09:32   yeah yeah to the space filled with all [TS]

01:09:34   that great homes boom indeed the space [TS]

01:09:36   beans well done and everybody out there [TS]

01:09:38   for listening to this transmission [TS]

01:09:40   reaching you across the galaxy [TS]

01:09:43   thank you for doing so and now you can [TS]

01:09:45   go back to your lives and hope that the [TS]

01:09:47   mule doesn't come for you in the night [TS]

01:09:49   whoo what noise that you'll make a cute [TS]

01:09:55   couple that's exactly as well thanks to [TS]

01:09:57   the pictures would be comfortable we'll [TS]

01:09:58   see you next week back [TS]

01:10:05   [Music] [TS]