Developing Perspective

#115: Pitching the Press with Shawn Blanc


00:00:00   Hello, and welcome to Developing Perspective, developing perspective is a podcast where

00:00:05   we discuss news of note and iOS Apple and the like. Today I'm delighted to be joined

00:00:10   by Sean Blanc of SeanBlanc.net. And we're going to be taking a break from the usual

00:00:16   topic where it's just me talking and to try and expand on a topic that I think is relevant

00:00:20   to a lot of iOS developers to talk about your interactions with what you would call generally

00:00:27   the press, people who write or discuss the things we make,

00:00:31   and to make sure that we're interacting with them in a way

00:00:33   that is best for both of us.

00:00:35   And so, as I said, I'm pleased to be joined by Sean.

00:00:38   If you want to say hi, Sean.

00:00:40   - Hi.

00:00:41   - And for anybody who doesn't read your site,

00:00:44   you want to give a little quick overview

00:00:50   of kind of what it is you do and what you write about?

00:00:53   - Yeah, I'm a full-time blogger.

00:00:54   I write at seanblanc.net and write a whole bunch about tech and design stuff, iPhone,

00:01:00   you know.

00:01:01   I write about the kind of stuff that you guys, all the developers who listen to this show,

00:01:06   you know, all the apps that you guys make.

00:01:09   I don't write about all of them, but maybe some of them.

00:01:11   And I guess that's part of sort of what I want to kind of unpack today.

00:01:15   And so I just kind of was, to start off with, I thought it would be interesting to just

00:01:18   kind of talk through, if you could kind of walk through what a typical, the typical process

00:01:22   or kind of lifespan or workflow of what typically happens

00:01:27   when a developer comes to you and says,

00:01:29   "Hey, I just wrote this new app, this new thing,

00:01:32   "this new service, and I sort of want to get your opinion,

00:01:35   "your impressions, maybe get you to write about it."

00:01:38   What does that kind of look like normally?

00:01:41   - There's like so many weird details

00:01:45   that kind of integrate into this whole conversation.

00:01:48   Something we were talking about before the show,

00:01:50   David, you were talking about how you've got all these apps

00:01:51   that you have to manage and ones that you're working on for the future, you know,

00:01:54   updates to current ones that you've got.

00:01:55   Um, and it's all this juggling that you have to do because you're a one man shop

00:01:59   and you develop all your own stuff.

00:02:00   Uh, and so it's kind of a similar situation to me.

00:02:03   I'm a one man shop.

00:02:04   And so I can only really ever focus on maybe one or two, um, articles at a time

00:02:10   if I'm doing a review of an app.

00:02:11   Um, and for me personally, that's not even the, the only thing that I write about.

00:02:16   There's a lot of different topics that I cover.

00:02:18   uh...

00:02:19   and so doing reviews of i_o_s_ apps is is one of the main things i do but

00:02:25   something only thing that i do

00:02:27   and so there's no way that i'm able to keep up

00:02:29   with uh... basically all of the requests that come in to check out an app

00:02:34   and give feedback or to do a review of it

00:02:36   uh... in addition to

00:02:38   there's a lot of apps out there that i'm discovering through different channels

00:02:41   that i'm interested in "oh you know what i want to try this one out, i want to do a review of that app"

00:02:45   and things like that.

00:02:46   So it's kind of balancing all of that stuff.

00:02:49   So I think one of the questions that we wanted to tackle

00:02:52   was sort of like, how, as an iOS developer,

00:02:56   do you get the attention of someone like me or other guys

00:02:59   that are out there in the media that have either the larger

00:03:02   corporate sites like iMore or The Verge or whatever it may be,

00:03:07   or some of the individual guys like myself or Stephen Hackett

00:03:11   or Marco or John Gruber, those guys.

00:03:14   How do you get attention through email?

00:03:16   And I guess the truth of it is, for the emails I get,

00:03:22   I probably get two or three dozen emails a week of people

00:03:26   that are working on an app, either that it's just come out,

00:03:28   or it's now kind of in the final stages of beta.

00:03:32   Or sometimes it's just, hey, I have an idea.

00:03:33   What do you think of this idea?

00:03:35   So I get emails like that pretty regularly.

00:03:37   And most of the time, I'm not even able to reply,

00:03:41   which is because there's not something that grabs your attention.

00:03:48   I don't know, when you're reading through RSS feeds, right, and you're going through

00:03:51   it, a lot of times you're just skimming the headlines.

00:03:54   And nine out of the ten, you go, "Oh, that's kind of interesting, whatever."

00:03:58   And then there's the one or the two that really pique your interest, then you click through

00:04:01   and you go to read the article.

00:04:03   It's very similar with me with the email and stuff like that.

00:04:06   I've got a few internal rules that I follow in terms of, is this something that's probably

00:04:12   going to be interesting or is this just going to be, you know, is this just someone that's

00:04:16   just trying to get my attention, hoping that I'll basically be free publicity for them.

00:04:22   And that's kind of the thing that I try to avoid is I don't want to be, since I'm an

00:04:27   indie blogger and I do my own thing and a lot of the income that I earn is through people

00:04:31   who sign up for membership to my site.

00:04:34   the biggest resource that I have to give is basically like my honest opinion about stuff.

00:04:40   And so when I'm writing about an app and doing an iOS review, I really try to focus on writing

00:04:47   about things that I actually like that this is an app that I'm interested in. This is an app that's

00:04:51   cool. So I don't, you know, I don't regurgitate press releases. I don't usually just link to

00:04:58   something or do a review of something just because it's new, but I would like to really actually

00:05:03   invest my time and energy into becoming familiar with the app, using it for a while, and forming

00:05:10   an educated opinion about this app. And then if I like it and I'm actually interested in it,

00:05:17   that's where then I'll then take the step and then promote it on my site to my readership.

00:05:21   So I guess the biggest thing for me, if someone wants to get me to review their app or to link

00:05:27   to it or to try it out, it has to be an app that I think I'm genuinely going to be interested in.

00:05:33   in, either as a user or the app itself is doing something really innovative or really

00:05:38   clever or it's, you know, either through the design or the functionality or both, that

00:05:43   it's worth drawing attention to and I think it's worth checking out and, you know, pointing

00:05:47   my readers to go.

00:05:48   So that's sort of like the matrix.

00:05:53   It's monologued forever there.

00:05:54   But that's sort of like the matrix of all this stuff that kind of goes through my mind

00:05:58   when I'm first being requested, you know, "Hey, check out my app."

00:06:02   - The biggest thing that I hear you saying that I think,

00:06:06   I've seen a number of people make this mistake,

00:06:09   is what you're trying to do is,

00:06:12   as a developer who's trying to pitch to somebody,

00:06:15   you want to make sure that you're pitching

00:06:17   the right thing to the right person.

00:06:19   I think there are certain kind,

00:06:22   I imagine that if someone who has been reading your site

00:06:25   for months and months and has a pretty good sense

00:06:28   of kind of who you are and the things you like,

00:06:32   can probably be, can understand pretty,

00:06:34   even before they send the message,

00:06:36   if it's something that you're gonna be interested in.

00:06:39   You know, it's like, and that,

00:06:40   you're probably, it's gonna be far better

00:06:43   for somebody to almost be catering to something

00:06:45   that obviously is a known interest

00:06:46   or the kind of things you like, then,

00:06:48   you know, and for like, maybe the obvious example would be

00:06:51   like if someone starts becoming,

00:06:52   he's like, hey, I just wrote this awesome Windows Phone app.

00:06:56   Like, that's probably not something that you're,

00:06:59   that would grab your attention,

00:07:01   not because the app isn't cool,

00:07:02   but because that's not what you do,

00:07:05   that's not your area of expertise.

00:07:07   You don't even have a phone.

00:07:08   - Well, I don't even have a Windows phone, exactly.

00:07:10   Great, thumbs up.

00:07:12   Go talk to Lex Friedman.

00:07:15   - Exactly, it's like you gotta find the right person

00:07:18   to hit it rather than, and I'm sure,

00:07:19   I imagine you can tell pretty quick

00:07:21   if somebody is just kind of spamming every email address

00:07:24   they can find for someone in the press

00:07:26   versus someone who's writing you a letter saying,

00:07:29   "Hey, Faishan, here's this thing I made.

00:07:32   "I think you might like it because XYZ."

00:07:36   - Yeah, well, so let's talk about spam email.

00:07:38   I kind of have two, there's two initial setups

00:07:41   that basically I don't even read the email.

00:07:44   Nine times out of 10, I won't even read the email.

00:07:45   This is what I notice.

00:07:46   First of all, if they've misspelled my name

00:07:49   or my name's not even addressed,

00:07:52   you know, if it just says hi, or, you know,

00:07:54   "Dear webmaster," or, you know,

00:07:56   "Dear product manager," whatever, I just delete.

00:07:59   uh... because i might you know maybe there's something there but chances are

00:08:02   ninety nine percent

00:08:03   that that there's probably nothing of interest there and it's just as spam

00:08:08   email for whatever it may be

00:08:10   uh... and there's so many really really great things out there

00:08:13   that trying to decipher

00:08:15   is this email that looks like spam really spam you know even spending two

00:08:19   minutes researching what the whatever product is that they're trying to pitch

00:08:23   me

00:08:24   is is

00:08:25   you know ninety nine percent times not worth the two minutes

00:08:27   so i just delete those right off the bat

00:08:29   and the other thing is uh... is when

00:08:32   uh... next i i have all my email set for plain text email and less like it sent

00:08:36   as a you know there's rich text formatting within their and so a lot of

00:08:40   times

00:08:41   you can tell

00:08:43   when there was part of the email that was like written and then part of the

00:08:46   email that was pasted with formatting

00:08:48   so there's these two you can tell like ones in my monosys font and ones in

00:08:52   whatever you know they use ariel and it's purple or whatever it is

00:08:56   And so when you see these differences and it says,

00:08:59   hi, Sean.

00:09:01   And then it switches to Ariel or whatever and says, guess what?

00:09:04   We just came out and I can tell, OK, they just copied and pasted

00:09:07   this.

00:09:08   And I'm like, there's some times where

00:09:10   I have to do that, where I'm sending out a very similar email

00:09:13   to five or six people.

00:09:16   And so there's the copying and pasting.

00:09:18   I'm not against that.

00:09:20   But then that's a quick tip off that says, OK,

00:09:22   this is a spam email with at least a little bit more thought put into it.

00:09:29   And so sometimes I'll look at those, but usually those

00:09:31   don't get my attention very much either, because I know it's still not

00:09:35   like a personalized email.

00:09:37   And if you're a developer, you're reaching out probably to dozens,

00:09:42   if not hundreds, of media outlets and sites and bloggers and people

00:09:46   whom you respect and whatnot.

00:09:48   And so you can't write 100 personalized emails.

00:09:51   I understand that.

00:09:52   I don't I'm not like against the copy and paste

00:09:56   It's just usually that's one of the tip offs when you can see the difference there between the plain text and the rich text

00:10:00   And so sometimes if it if it sounds interesting or you know, they've got a link that goes to some screenshots

00:10:07   You know, sometimes I'll click through and if the app looks

00:10:10   Well designed that's kind of them like the second

00:10:15   I don't like the second milestone or whatever maybe for if I'm interested in is

00:10:22   is you know see some of the screenshots and playing this looks great

00:10:25   you know i keep there's that

00:10:27   in just a visit to the clear like a professional level of polish

00:10:31   or the the layout of that that

00:10:34   you know the panel with the functionalities it looks

00:10:36   like okay this looks really cool this could this could be something special

00:10:39   uh...

00:10:40   then all

00:10:41   then the news that hey i don't send me semi abated invite

00:10:46   or sometimes it's just a you know what let me know when your app launches

00:10:48   'cause a lot of times that

00:10:50   As a beta tester, I'm not able to get to it in time before it launches and then if I do sign up for the beta

00:10:56   You know as a beta tester. There's you know, you want to give some feedback before the app actually does launch

00:11:01   And things like that and if I just know I'm not gonna have time to look at this before the app launches

00:11:07   you just let me know when it does launch and then I'll go buy it and check it out and

00:11:10   I'll be able to write it back when I have the chance to write about it

00:11:14   Yeah, I mean it's I think you would you said there what I thought is interesting for the way that I tend to approach

00:11:19   'cause I've gone through this many times,

00:11:21   and in fact, I think I've even gone through this with you.

00:11:24   The way that I try and personalize things

00:11:26   or make things be attractive is I,

00:11:29   there's a certain amount of that's kind of like

00:11:33   your stock copy about the app.

00:11:34   That's kind of like your list of features,

00:11:38   links to a video or a screencast or whatever it is.

00:11:41   But what I tend to try and do is to write a letter

00:11:46   to the person who I'm trying to communicate to

00:11:49   that's to them based on my knowledge of them

00:11:52   and kind of what I think they like.

00:11:54   And then it's like, I'll just put the stock copy

00:11:56   at the bottom kind of thing.

00:11:57   And just be like, if you're interested after reading

00:12:00   a personal paragraph that I'm writing to you,

00:12:03   then you're probably more interested in reading

00:12:05   whatever it is, the features and all the stuff about it

00:12:08   rather than just starting with that

00:12:09   and kind of just being like, hi,

00:12:10   and then just diving into the generic pitch.

00:12:13   That's the way that I tend to do it.

00:12:15   yeah absolutely and i'm

00:12:16   because if uh...

00:12:18   and i'm very i'm

00:12:19   i'll read the emails for sure i read almost every email that i get

00:12:23   if it's if it's not a press release or you know the generic spam email

00:12:28   i read most of the emails and so

00:12:31   uh... an email that comes in the you've got my attention at least for a few

00:12:33   minutes

00:12:34   and i think that i am

00:12:36   basically one of the

00:12:37   the main ways uh... all use an example

00:12:42   uh... michael simmons to who runs uh...

00:12:45   flexibits and does fantastical

00:12:48   uh... i got an email from him i don't know you're not figure whatever when

00:12:51   they were working on fantastic out for the back

00:12:53   and

00:12:56   the basic you know he's shown work on this app with a free trade out with a

00:12:59   free to debate as it gives your feedback

00:13:02   uh... if you're interested

00:13:04   and

00:13:05   there's

00:13:06   a lot of people use kind of sensational language you know where

00:13:09   we've reinvented the calendar or we use breakthrough natural language processing

00:13:14   or things like that, which most of the time you're like, OK,

00:13:18   everyone says that they're doing that, right?

00:13:20   And I can't remember if Michael had that in his email or not.

00:13:22   But he had a couple screenshots of Fantastic Al on the Mac.

00:13:24   And I was like, hey, this is a good looking app, really cool.

00:13:27   And then he was using-- Raji King was doing the icon design

00:13:30   and the UI design for the app.

00:13:33   Actually, I think Icon Factory did the icon design.

00:13:35   And then Raji King did the actual UI for the app itself.

00:13:39   And I'm friends with Raji.

00:13:40   So I was like, oh, very cool.

00:13:42   So there was a little bit of-- there's a connection there.

00:13:45   OK, oh, their designer.

00:13:46   I'm friends with their designer.

00:13:48   The app itself looks really cool.

00:13:50   And then he said, we'd love to have you as a beta tester.

00:13:52   And then if you'd like, we'd love

00:13:54   for you to release an early review of the app

00:13:59   before we're letting anyone else do a review of the app.

00:14:01   So there was kind of like-- I was getting a little bit

00:14:04   of special attention there.

00:14:05   And that is-- which I appreciate that very much,

00:14:08   because for me, I'm basically-- I can't remember who said this,

00:14:12   but he says, the quote, the guy says,

00:14:15   "The news is everything that no one wants me to publish,

00:14:19   "and then everything else is advertising."

00:14:21   And so, in a way, like doing a review of an app,

00:14:24   it's free advertising.

00:14:25   I'm giving free advertising to Flexibits guys

00:14:29   for Fantastical, but of course it's good for me too,

00:14:31   because the readers are interested,

00:14:32   they want to see a review and things like that.

00:14:34   So him saying, "Hey, everyone's going to be writing

00:14:36   "a review of this app when it comes out,

00:14:38   "but you can do one ahead of time.

00:14:39   I'll give you a pre-release, you know,

00:14:42   you can write your review early.

00:14:44   So that was really helpful for me,

00:14:45   'cause I'm like, okay, yeah,

00:14:46   if I'm going to invest the time to be a beta tester,

00:14:49   work on this app and write up a review before it comes out,

00:14:53   it's awesome that I'll get to release mine

00:14:55   in a week or two before anyone else

00:14:56   and be one of the early guys.

00:14:58   'Cause in that sense, traffic my way in readers,

00:15:00   and that's what's good for my business.

00:15:02   So that's kind of one way

00:15:05   that you can grab someone's attention,

00:15:07   basically, a couple screenshots in there.

00:15:11   I like hearing some of the back and forth story of the app.

00:15:14   And so, David, I can't remember exactly what you said

00:15:17   in your email, but I saw the screenshots of Check the Weather.

00:15:21   I was like, this is awesome.

00:15:22   You've got Dark Sky integrated.

00:15:24   I use Dark Sky.

00:15:24   So there's some of the dots, get connected,

00:15:27   things that I'm familiar with, and how the things that I know

00:15:31   relate with your app.

00:15:32   So similar with Fantastic Cal, and they

00:15:34   were working with Raji.

00:15:35   there's a a little bit familiarity there and i think that that

00:15:40   and i can instantly opens up a m i'm more receptive to the apt because you

00:15:44   there's just so many pitches throughout the day that it's like

00:15:47   if there's not a familiarity there i've got a

00:15:49   kind of figure out what it is that that makes me interested in your app if

00:15:52   there's something that i'm already familiar with

00:15:54   that i you know that i'm fond of young big fan of dark skies to the fact that

00:15:57   you had a integrated

00:15:59   to check the weather's i want i want to take this out

00:16:01   And then I used it for like half a second,

00:16:04   and now it's the only weather app

00:16:07   that's ever been on my home screen.

00:16:09   So congratulations.

00:16:10   - Cool, that's cool to hear.

00:16:13   Yeah, 'cause I think what I remember

00:16:14   when I was going around doing my pitches

00:16:16   for Check the Weather,

00:16:18   the thing that I remember consciously doing is A,

00:16:20   I tend to, I probably only pitch, I don't know,

00:16:23   four or five people.

00:16:24   Like I'd really, I try and,

00:16:27   I think in general, the developers are better off

00:16:30   having the strong attention of a smaller group of people,

00:16:34   rather than trying to have everybody interested

00:16:39   about it at once.

00:16:40   Like, you're just, it's like if everyone's special,

00:16:41   no one's special.

00:16:42   And so, it's like, and then it's like trying to focus in

00:16:46   on what you're trying to do there.

00:16:47   It's like, I know, if I knew somebody would work,

00:16:50   like used Dark Sky before, integrated with it,

00:16:53   I'm just gonna mention that.

00:16:54   If I knew people cared about typography,

00:16:57   it's like I'll talk about using Idlewild,

00:16:58   like there are things that you can try and do to make it like it's this that

00:17:02   you're speaking to that person that I think sounds like a lot of it's that

00:17:06   same thing it's like you're trying to connect you're trying to write something

00:17:08   that you think will connect with this person even if you've never met them

00:17:12   based on if it's an author you've written you've read thousands of their

00:17:15   words so hopefully you can write something to write a few hundred back

00:17:19   that kind of mashes with what you know they like and what they the things they

00:17:23   care about you if you read a review of another app you wrote you'll get a sense

00:17:27   of the things that they care about.

00:17:29   You know, talking about typography,

00:17:30   if they've never talked about typography

00:17:32   in any of their reviews, is probably a waste of time.

00:17:35   - Mm-hmm.

00:17:36   Yeah, absolutely.

00:17:37   I think that you don't have to write an email

00:17:40   to the writer, you know, whatever outlet you're writing to.

00:17:44   You don't have to sound like, "Hey, I'm your new best friend."

00:17:47   But I think just having that little bit of attention

00:17:50   where you say, "Okay, here's the one or two

00:17:53   "like hallmark features that I think

00:17:55   "you're going to be interested in."

00:17:57   A, I'm using Idlewild.

00:18:00   Because Idlewild, I'm a huge fan of Tungsten.

00:18:02   They're from the same foundry.

00:18:05   And then Dark Sky.

00:18:07   I've got Dark Sky integration.

00:18:08   And there's more to it than that.

00:18:10   Here's a couple screenshots.

00:18:11   Let me know if you're interested.

00:18:13   And then a lot of people like to offer promo codes.

00:18:16   I personally go out and buy the apps that if I say, hey,

00:18:20   I'm interested in it, I'm going to go ahead and buy it.

00:18:23   I just feel like there's a little bit less conflict

00:18:25   of interest there.

00:18:26   So a lot of times people offer me the promo code, which I think is great.

00:18:29   I think that's a--

00:18:31   I would do that, say, here's a promo code.

00:18:34   It's a good gesture of faith that says--

00:18:38   because those promo codes, once you pass one out, you don't get it back.

00:18:41   And I know as developers, you only have so many.

00:18:44   And so in a way, I'm like, OK, this is a good faith gesture.

00:18:47   They basically wasted a promo code on me.

00:18:50   And then I'll usually write back and say, hey,

00:18:52   feel free to share this with someone else.

00:18:55   I went ahead and bought the app.

00:18:56   United States or whatever.

00:18:58   Unless it's-- if it's a pre-release version of the app,

00:19:01   either through the beta, or a lot of times it'll be

00:19:03   available in the App Store but not yet public.

00:19:05   And so the promo code's the only way to get to the app and

00:19:08   download it from the App Store.

00:19:09   So I'll go that route if necessary, if it's not yet out.

00:19:15   And then I think just--

00:19:17   I don't know, maybe this is my personality.

00:19:19   But a lot of times, basically saying, here's the app.

00:19:22   I really hope that you'll be interested in it.

00:19:23   Let me know if you have any questions.

00:19:25   and sort of leaving it kind of open-handed like that

00:19:27   as opposed to saying

00:19:29   i hope you'll write a uh... a really long review

00:19:32   and uh... and then also interview me and then also have me be a guest in your

00:19:35   podcast is it all be wonderful things

00:19:37   you know please let me know when we can

00:19:39   uh... book that

00:19:40   and and sort of like this expectation of going i want you to do this for me as

00:19:44   opposed to

00:19:45   i hope you like that and and being a little more open-handed about it

00:19:49   i think there's more of a risk as a developer

00:19:52   asking the the press to be kind of open-handed about saying hey we really

00:19:56   hope you're interested in this

00:19:57   but at the same time for me there's uh...

00:20:00   when they're there's seemingly less pressure from the developer going hey i

00:20:03   really want you to do this i really want you to check it out i really want you to

00:20:06   help spread the word and and you know give us a shout out

00:20:10   uh... a lot of times i can turns me off and have it i mean you know at these

00:20:14   guys are a little needy

00:20:15   uh... i would love to develop a relationship with them but i i can't be

00:20:19   I don't want them to keep knocking on my door asking for free advertising all the

00:20:22   time

00:20:23   and as opposed to just building a relationship. I'm a user, they're a developer

00:20:28   and you know their app is really cool, I'd like to use it and give feedback when I

00:20:32   can

00:20:33   but not be a full-time beta tester and

00:20:36   so that's kind of just a balance in terms of developing relationships

00:20:40   you know with the press and things like that and that's something that I think

00:20:43   David Barnard is really excellent at.

00:20:46   He's the guy behind Appcubby, his

00:20:48   his big smash hit app recently, his Launch Center Pro.

00:20:53   And he's a really good friend of mine,

00:20:58   and I know he's really good friends

00:20:59   with a lot of folks in the media.

00:21:01   And so he's sort of got that friendship relationship,

00:21:04   but he's very, very open-handed about it.

00:21:08   And so I've never felt any pressure from him

00:21:11   to review his apps or to cover them

00:21:13   or to help spread the word in any regard.

00:21:16   But I know that I'm on the beta list, and I check his stuff out.

00:21:20   And whenever we're in San Francisco at the same time,

00:21:23   we always meet up frequently and go over his apps.

00:21:26   And he's showing me stuff, and I'm talking to him about stuff that I do.

00:21:29   And whatnot.

00:21:30   So there's a good relationship there, but he's very open-handed about it.

00:21:33   And I think, at least for me personally, that's always a huge advantage

00:21:38   to working with developers.

00:21:39   And there's that-- I don't know, it feels like it's a mutual relationship,

00:21:43   as opposed to I'm a source of free advertising.

00:21:45   - Yeah, and I think what you said there

00:21:47   that resonated a lot with me is I remember,

00:21:49   I think I've had the best results, I guess you could say,

00:21:53   and for a lot of the interactions I've had with the press

00:21:55   where it's the first time I'm interacting with them

00:21:58   isn't the first time I'm pitching them on something.

00:22:01   - Yeah, that's huge.

00:22:03   - And that can mean a lot of different things,

00:22:05   but if I'm somebody who is thinking that down the road,

00:22:10   I may be making something that would be interesting

00:22:14   for you to look at.

00:22:16   It's probably in my best interest for me to--

00:22:19   it's like, well, I should be reading your blog every day,

00:22:21   and I should be-- it's like interacting with you in that,

00:22:25   or following you online and talking to you there,

00:22:27   or when there's-- it's like giving you feedback,

00:22:31   or offering opinions, or writing blog posts in response

00:22:33   to things you've written that kind of created

00:22:35   having that discussion.

00:22:37   So the first time that you arrive at somebody and say,

00:22:42   hey, this is what I've been working on,

00:22:43   It's like, oh, let me see what Bill's been working on.

00:22:46   I know Bill from whatever that thing was,

00:22:48   rather than it's just like that sort of blank email.

00:22:51   And I know for a lot of people, I mean,

00:22:53   I think about someone like David Bernard,

00:22:54   it's like that a lot of what he does,

00:22:56   putting information out there, interacting with people,

00:22:58   or helping people out, is about building relationships

00:23:02   with people that aren't just about this kind of like,

00:23:05   oh, I just want to sort of cozy up to the press.

00:23:09   It's about just sort of putting things out there

00:23:12   in the hopes of building it, sort of helping out,

00:23:14   as you say, the community,

00:23:16   and building that kind of recognition

00:23:17   in a way that's not just kind of being off on your own

00:23:20   and then just appearing one day and saying,

00:23:22   "Hey, please, please talk about me."

00:23:24   - Yeah, absolutely, and I think a lot of that is,

00:23:29   you know, I mean, most press sites and most blogs,

00:23:32   they're not gonna promote an app

00:23:34   simply because they're friends with somebody.

00:23:37   You know, I'm friends with a lot of people,

00:23:38   and I don't promote all their apps,

00:23:40   And I don't promote all the one.x releases and things

00:23:45   like that.

00:23:45   But when you're friends with them

00:23:47   and then they pitch the app to you,

00:23:49   you're much, much, much more likely to pay attention

00:23:53   to what it is that they have to say.

00:23:54   And a lot of times, that's the critical part, right?

00:23:57   As a developer, it's like, you do have a great app.

00:24:01   And it's awesome.

00:24:02   But it's so hard to get that 30-second elevator pitch, even

00:24:06   just to get that.

00:24:07   And it's that initial, hey, I had a couple minutes

00:24:10   to actually pitch the idea and show them the app.

00:24:14   And that's all it takes to then get someone interested in your app,

00:24:17   because you've actually developed something cool.

00:24:20   And I can imagine as a developer, that's

00:24:21   probably one of the most frustrating parts,

00:24:23   is you're like, this app is really great, and nobody knows it.

00:24:26   And that's where the relationship comes in,

00:24:30   David, that you're talking about, is when you've

00:24:32   got the relationship with people, then they're

00:24:34   willing to give you the time to look over, OK, yeah,

00:24:37   go ahead and show me your app.

00:24:39   Give me 30 seconds.

00:24:40   Show me how it works.

00:24:41   And then once you see it, you're like, oh, this

00:24:43   is really, really cool.

00:24:45   And it was a very similar situation

00:24:48   I had with Arc, the backup thing that works with Amazon.

00:24:52   The guy, Stefan, who writes it, I just

00:24:54   ended up by chance meeting him.

00:24:57   I was with Jim Dalrymple.

00:24:58   We were having coffee at WWDC a couple years ago.

00:25:01   And so the three of us are talking.

00:25:04   And I was using Backblaze.

00:25:05   And I was like, why would I need Arc, too?

00:25:06   And he goes, "Well, let me give you a second."

00:25:08   And he had my attention.

00:25:10   And it took him like two minutes, and I was like,

00:25:12   "Oh my gosh, I'm sold."

00:25:13   And then I went home, or I went back to the hotel,

00:25:16   and I bought a version of Arc.

00:25:17   And I use it now, and I'm a huge proponent of it.

00:25:20   And it's just that initial, if you can get someone's

00:25:23   attention and whatnot, and so the relationship aspect,

00:25:26   and like you're saying, you're communicating with them

00:25:30   through Twitter or app.net, or you're sending in emails

00:25:33   in response to stuff and whatnot.

00:25:35   and you've got your own blog, and you're writing stuff

00:25:38   in replies, or you're even just part of the conversation,

00:25:42   and you're part of that world, then

00:25:46   you've got a little bit more respect.

00:25:48   You've got a little bit of recognition.

00:25:50   Even if it's small, you don't have

00:25:52   a huge site that gets tons of traffic all the time,

00:25:55   or anything like that, but you're just part

00:25:57   of the conversation, and you're there.

00:25:59   And then you develop a few friendships and relationships

00:26:02   here and there.

00:26:02   And then that sort of can be some of those familiar ties.

00:26:07   Or you come and say, "I'm working on this app,

00:26:08   "and by the way, your friend over here,

00:26:11   "he's a beta tester, he said he's going to try it out.

00:26:13   "Maybe you want to try it out too."

00:26:14   And you go, "Oh, okay, sure."

00:26:16   And there's that, there's a familiarity there,

00:26:18   and I think that's one of the best things that you can do

00:26:21   in terms of marketing your app

00:26:23   and getting the word out there.

00:26:24   And then you're part of the community too, right?

00:26:26   You're doing more than just trying to make a dollar

00:26:29   through having a relationship

00:26:31   with someone who's got a website.

00:26:32   you're actually contributing to the indie community

00:26:35   of the developers and the writers and all of us

00:26:38   that are part of this community.

00:26:39   And I think that's, you know, that has rewards

00:26:42   in and of itself, I think.

00:26:43   - Yeah, and I think there's, the thing that you,

00:26:44   I think you're hitting on there, too,

00:26:46   is there's an importance for that to be genuine

00:26:50   in a way that it's, the purpose of being a member

00:26:53   of that community and being part of that conversation

00:26:56   isn't so that you can pitch the press later, right?

00:27:00   it's going to be very apparent if that's what you're trying to do.

00:27:04   It's like the goal, at least for me, my goal is to be part of the community because I enjoy

00:27:10   that because I like the people in it and I want to engage with them as best I can.

00:27:14   And then it has the side benefit of, you know, there's like follow on effects of that, that

00:27:19   when it comes time to have your launch, to try and reach out to people, you're a known

00:27:26   quantity in that way.

00:27:27   but it's like you're going to be very frustrated

00:27:29   if your goal is to try and build just enough

00:27:34   of a reputation that you can get on people's radars.

00:27:37   The goal should really be the other way around.

00:27:39   Your goal is just this happy side effect

00:27:42   of having these relationships with people

00:27:45   is that when it comes time to sort of cash in

00:27:49   that relationship capital that you build up,

00:27:52   that you have that available to you.

00:27:55   - Yeah, I totally agree that the genuineness

00:27:59   will shine through or it'll be seen as

00:28:02   that you're being phony.

00:28:04   I also think it's, are you in this for,

00:28:06   are you trying to strike the lottery

00:28:08   or are you trying to build a career

00:28:09   and really contribute to the entire industry?

00:28:12   And I think that for those interested in the ladder,

00:28:15   those relationships, you never quote unquote cash in

00:28:19   your relationship equity, you're continually building it

00:28:24   because, okay, now that we've worked together with this app,

00:28:27   and I've, whatever, you helped me spread the word,

00:28:30   thanks for that, okay, now I'm working on a new one,

00:28:32   are you interested in being a part of that one as well?

00:28:34   And it's, you're continually moving forward

00:28:37   because as a writer, I'm always looking for new things

00:28:40   to write about, and there's always something new

00:28:42   and interesting to check out,

00:28:43   and technology is evolving so quickly

00:28:45   that a lot of times I'm switching tools,

00:28:46   whatever it may be.

00:28:47   As developers, you guys are working on new apps

00:28:50   and new ideas and breaking into new markets

00:28:53   things like that. And so there's hopefully the ability to build ongoing relationships

00:28:59   instead of just, "Okay, I built friendships. I checked that off the list." And I mean,

00:29:06   come on, who's really got a checklist that says, "Okay, develop friendship with X blogger."

00:29:12   That'd be weird.

00:29:13   Well, it just wouldn't work, is the problem. I think, and the reality is, if I'm honest

00:29:21   with myself, there was probably a time when I was starting

00:29:23   out that that's what I thought I needed to do.

00:29:27   In a way that it was like, okay, I'm a,

00:29:30   it's like I'm an unknown developer.

00:29:34   There is, and how do I, it's like,

00:29:36   it seems like what you need to do is you need to get

00:29:38   written up on XYZ blog.

00:29:40   It's like, okay, so I'm going to try and,

00:29:44   I don't even know, like get their attention.

00:29:46   But the reality is, is sort of once you understand

00:29:48   that it's like that type of a consciousness about it

00:29:50   intentionality doesn't really work.

00:29:53   It's the kind of thing that just happens as a result of,

00:29:55   like, once you realize that, no, actually,

00:29:57   the people who I'm interested in have writing about my apps

00:30:00   are interesting people because they're interested

00:30:02   in the same things I'm interested in.

00:30:04   And we have something in common there

00:30:05   that's much more interesting than what I'm working on.

00:30:08   That, like, as soon as you kind of get beyond that,

00:30:11   then all of a sudden it's like, it opens up this world

00:30:12   of like, no, this is actually really cool.

00:30:14   Like, I'm enjoying this conversation,

00:30:16   and it's not just like this sort of thing

00:30:18   I'm trying to do, to tick a box on a list.

00:30:24   Yeah, absolutely.

00:30:25   And I think, kind of looking at it on the other side

00:30:27   from my viewpoint, when I first started writing full time

00:30:30   about two years ago, I was like, well, I write about iOS apps.

00:30:34   So I went to WWDC to meet with developers, right?

00:30:38   And sort of develop a relationship

00:30:40   with some of these guys.

00:30:41   And there's a lot of other Apple bloggers that are out there.

00:30:43   And because it's like this huge--

00:30:46   it's just this like spider web network, right?

00:30:49   Where all these-- all the indie writers, all the indie developers,

00:30:53   the indie podcasters, we're all sort of--

00:30:56   we're kind of all in the same group together, right?

00:30:59   We're part of the same conversation.

00:31:00   And so a lot of it, you go to these conferences,

00:31:03   and you meet some of the quote unquote "the little guys."

00:31:06   But the little guys happen to be really good friends with some

00:31:09   of the big guys.

00:31:10   And so you end up--

00:31:12   So maybe you don't get to meet John Gruber because he's busy

00:31:15   and he kind of hides and doesn't want to get mobbed.

00:31:18   But you meet someone else who happens

00:31:20   to be friends with John Gruber.

00:31:21   And then you get this other guy, and you build a relationship

00:31:24   with him, and then he's using your app,

00:31:26   and then he writes about it on his site.

00:31:27   Well, Gruber reads the other guy's site.

00:31:29   Gruber says, oh, I found this app through my friend.

00:31:32   And then he ends up linking to your app.

00:31:33   And so there's this network.

00:31:35   And so you don't have to go for just the big fish in the pond.

00:31:38   You go for the people that-- that guy's interesting.

00:31:40   I'm actually interested in building a relationship with him or her and developing that.

00:31:47   For the long term, it really is, I think, the best bet.

00:31:52   You might not get your overnight success that way, but you're building a career that way.

00:31:56   I think that's a lot more valuable.

00:31:59   So changing gears slightly, I was curious in terms of what are things that developers

00:32:06   can do to make your life as easy as possible?

00:32:09   So once you've gone through this first phase,

00:32:13   so like someone has your attention,

00:32:15   you're interested in what they're doing

00:32:18   and you're kind of wanting to pursue it.

00:32:20   Are there things that we can do to ease

00:32:24   and sort of streamline that process for you?

00:32:26   It's like things like, I think about like having a press kit,

00:32:29   having those types of things or things that we should be

00:32:33   putting out there that help,

00:32:35   so sort of, 'cause obviously, we have an incentive

00:32:38   to make your life as easy as possible,

00:32:39   because if it's that much easier for you to write something,

00:32:42   then it becomes that much more likely

00:32:44   that you will write something.

00:32:47   - I always like to know, I never look at press kits.

00:32:50   I just always ignore them.

00:32:52   If I'm going to do screenshots,

00:32:53   I usually like to do my own screenshots

00:32:55   of the particular screens that I find interesting,

00:32:58   but I usually don't even do screenshots anyways.

00:33:02   So what I usually like to know is give me the two or three

00:33:05   bullet points.

00:33:07   What's the one reason that makes your app so great?

00:33:09   And what's the one reason that you think I'm interested?

00:33:12   What should I look for?

00:33:15   And then I also am always very interested in the story

00:33:19   behind the app.

00:33:22   Were you walking your dog when you had the idea for this?

00:33:24   Were you taking a shower?

00:33:25   Were you on a road trip to St. Louis?

00:33:27   Like tell me, where did the idea strike you?

00:33:31   how long have you been working on it, what's your team like, where are you guys based?

00:33:34   I always like to know the story because I think

00:33:37   personally that's a lot more interesting to me or it can make an app a lot more

00:33:40   interesting when you know a little bit about the people and the work that's

00:33:44   gone behind it, like the real people that are there.

00:33:46   So for me, once the developers got my attention, I like to know,

00:33:50   give me the one or two top points

00:33:54   and you can copy and paste them from the press release, that's fine.

00:33:57   And then give me a little bit of a background story about, you as the developer buying this

00:34:03   app and like, did you quit your job and this is your first app?

00:34:08   Did you mortgage your house to hire out another graphic designer?

00:34:11   Like, give me the juicy details.

00:34:13   I'm interested in that kind of stuff because that's what makes the app come alive.

00:34:17   And then also, I'm also very interested in knowing who else in the press are you talking

00:34:22   to?

00:34:23   A lot of these guys, Vittici and Rene Ritchie and these guys,

00:34:28   we're all friends, right?

00:34:30   So we all kind of have our little thing where, hey,

00:34:33   you're working on this app or whatever.

00:34:34   What do you think about this?

00:34:36   What do you think about that?

00:34:38   And so we kind of have our water cooler chats.

00:34:41   And so for me, it's actually very helpful

00:34:43   to know if there's another-- who else is working on the app?

00:34:48   Or who else has the beta access to it?

00:34:51   Because then that gives me a place-- a lot of us, we work--

00:34:54   we work from home or we work alone.

00:34:56   And so there's not-- we don't have

00:34:58   anyone to talk to about the apps other than our wives.

00:35:01   And hey, you know, babe, welcome.

00:35:03   Checking out this new-- an example

00:35:06   was Checkmark from the snowman guys.

00:35:12   And a really, really cool reminders app

00:35:14   for location-based stuff.

00:35:16   And I was on the beta there, but I didn't

00:35:18   know who else was on the beta.

00:35:20   And so it was like, I'm kind of like using it,

00:35:22   but I've got no one to dialogue with about.

00:35:24   And I know that a lot of times as a developer,

00:35:27   you want to keep things top secret and keep it closed down.

00:35:33   And so it's sort of like there's just this vacuum

00:35:37   dialogue between just myself and just the developer and nobody

00:35:40   else.

00:35:41   And so I don't know if I'm the only person that

00:35:43   has access to this app.

00:35:45   Probably not.

00:35:47   But then who else does?

00:35:48   And is everyone going to be writing a review the day that this thing launches?

00:35:52   You know, if so, what are they going to write about?

00:35:54   And so I really like to know who else, basically, that's the very long and

00:35:59   roundabout way of saying who else has access to this and is it okay if I

00:36:03   talk with them and things like that.

00:36:05   Um, and that was one of the things I really enjoyed.

00:36:07   You know, actually David, we were talking about this even before the show with

00:36:10   Sean Edman when he was doing, uh, development for Fever back in, like,

00:36:14   I don't know, it was like five years ago or something like that.

00:36:17   It was a long time ago.

00:36:18   And so his beta development group was a group of guys.

00:36:23   He did a group email, and he said, hey,

00:36:26   if you're interested, let me know.

00:36:28   And if you're interested in beta testing,

00:36:30   you have to let me know.

00:36:30   And so everyone kind of replied.

00:36:32   And then there was this group, and there

00:36:34   was like half a dozen guys.

00:36:35   And it was like the beta testing and the conversation

00:36:38   about the app was done as a group.

00:36:41   And it was in group email and things like that.

00:36:43   And I know Daniel Jalka does that with his Mars Edit mailing

00:36:46   list.

00:36:47   I think I'm allowed to say that.

00:36:48   So Daniel Jockett does that with Mars Edit and things like that.

00:36:52   So there's a little bit community there with the beta testers

00:36:55   and the reviewers and things like that.

00:36:57   And that's something that I find a lot of value in that.

00:37:00   And it's helpful for me to talk about the app with other people that are using it

00:37:04   and things like that, especially if I'm trying to work on a review that's

00:37:07   going to be a little bit more in-depth or talk about a different aspect.

00:37:12   So Federico Viticci, he's going, I'm writing about this part,

00:37:16   and I'm trying to pull out this aspect of the app.

00:37:19   Okay, well I'm going to do my review

00:37:21   and try to focus on this other thing

00:37:23   so that we don't overlap and basically write the same review

00:37:26   for, you know, because then people are like,

00:37:27   well, I'm just only going to read one of them.

00:37:30   So that's helpful in that regard.

00:37:31   - Yeah, I mean, I think it speaks to an interesting thing

00:37:34   that I think a lot of developers get a bit too caught up

00:37:37   in the secretiveness of what it is they're doing.

00:37:42   Where it's kind of like this, there's this fear that,

00:37:45   I don't even really know what the,

00:37:47   there's all these different,

00:37:48   I don't know if people have different fears

00:37:49   about what's going to happen,

00:37:50   but it's like in general, in my experience,

00:37:53   the more people you have talking about

00:37:55   what it is you're doing that are interested in it

00:37:58   as possible is almost always going to be the better.

00:38:01   You know, it's very rare that you're going to

00:38:04   somehow be shooting yourself in the foot

00:38:06   by putting, getting too much attention

00:38:08   from too many people.

00:38:10   - Right, well and I also think that there's,

00:38:12   if I know that there's five or 10 other guys

00:38:15   that also have beta access that are in the media,

00:38:19   and they're going to write a review or something like that,

00:38:22   I feel part of the momentum with the app release.

00:38:24   And I want, as a--

00:38:28   for you, Dave, with Check the Weather,

00:38:29   I wanted it to be a huge success.

00:38:31   I'm like, why not?

00:38:32   Why not sell a million copies of this weather app?

00:38:35   That would be awesome.

00:38:36   High five.

00:38:37   And then when we meet up for WWCE, you can buy me a drink.

00:38:40   And so I very much want the app to be successful for you.

00:38:46   And so if I know who else is part of that group leading up

00:38:49   to the launch, who's going to be covering it,

00:38:51   what are they writing out, what do they like about it,

00:38:53   what don't they like about it, and there's

00:38:55   sort of this kind of a group dynamic around the app,

00:39:00   then I feel part of the momentum leading up to it.

00:39:02   I feel more involved.

00:39:03   I feel more engaged.

00:39:04   And there's more excitement for me working on the review

00:39:08   because it's not something I'm just doing in a vacuum.

00:39:11   There's, it's, yes, this is awesome.

00:39:13   And then I can be excited, and I know who else is writing it.

00:39:17   So then I can say, if I really want to go for it

00:39:20   and really help you promote your app, then I know that, OK, well,

00:39:23   Rene Ritchie's writing a review, and Matt Panzorino's writing one,

00:39:26   and so's Fotichi, and so's Steven Hackett, and these guys.

00:39:30   And so then I can go check their sites, and then maybe I'll link to their reviews

00:39:33   on Twitter or whatever it may be.

00:39:36   And there's even more helping spread the word that way,

00:39:38   because I feel like I'm part of the inner circle.

00:39:41   Related to that, but getting slightly more specific,

00:39:44   what do you think about things like embargoes?

00:39:47   It seems like there's this very--

00:39:49   I don't know, there's two schools of thought.

00:39:51   It's something that I've never gotten into myself.

00:39:53   It's just sort of like, I'll let people

00:39:55   know who are writing about it.

00:39:56   It'll be launching on this day, but I

00:39:59   don't tend to get too like, OK, well,

00:40:02   you don't write about it until 10 AM, or don't-- whatever.

00:40:05   Where do you come down on that?

00:40:06   Or do you think those are useful at all, or just annoying

00:40:09   as someone writing?

00:40:11   I think it really is up to the developer.

00:40:14   I think there's an advantage.

00:40:17   I think when you're selling an iOS app or something that

00:40:21   isn't available until a certain time,

00:40:24   there's an advantage there to not releasing

00:40:28   too much excitement about the app

00:40:30   until it's actually available.

00:40:31   Because people go, oh, cool.

00:40:33   I want to try that app out.

00:40:34   "Oh, it's not available yet?"

00:40:35   And then, out of sight, out of mind, right?

00:40:38   And so, in a way, you don't want everyone

00:40:40   talking about it before it's available,

00:40:43   but something that I've always appreciated as a writer

00:40:47   is when I had that opportunity with Fantastical,

00:40:51   I got to write an early review of it.

00:40:53   Similar with Checkmark, I got to write a review.

00:40:56   I think I wrote the Checkmark review

00:40:57   like two weeks before it came out,

00:40:59   and I remember actually getting pinged

00:41:00   by a couple other guys, and they were like,

00:41:02   did you just break your embargo?

00:41:04   I was like, no, actually, I had permission to write this early.

00:41:06   And so there was kind of a--

00:41:09   I don't know.

00:41:09   So I think embargoes can be cool.

00:41:12   Or just a request that you say, hey,

00:41:13   I'd prefer you wait until such and such a date

00:41:17   to publish your review.

00:41:18   And then maybe giving one or two people early access.

00:41:22   Hey, if you want to do a preview review, you can.

00:41:27   But then a lot of times, people said, hey,

00:41:29   if you want to do an earlier review, that's awesome.

00:41:31   And then if you'll do a long form review, uh, when it actually launches, that'd be

00:41:35   great.

00:41:36   And for me, it's usually like, I usually only do just one or the other.

00:41:38   Um, I wouldn't do both.

00:41:40   So I think that's up to the developer.

00:41:42   If, if you want to do an embargo, I think they're fine.

00:41:44   If you, um, I know if I was a developer, I would probably do, um, embargoes or

00:41:50   something like that, where there's some sort of a coordinated, uh, you know,

00:41:54   coordinated efforts so that when the app is finally publicized, then it's, it's

00:41:59   also at the same time that it's available.

00:42:01   - Yeah.

00:42:02   - 'Cause I think you can lose a lot of potential sales

00:42:04   that way.

00:42:05   - Okay.

00:42:06   And then lastly, I thought it'd be an interesting place

00:42:09   to wrap up is, as somebody who spends a lot of time

00:42:12   working about, thinking about, reviewing, and writing

00:42:15   about apps, having the sort of the ear of a number of,

00:42:19   the people who listen to the show are people

00:42:23   who are making apps.

00:42:24   What are some of the things that you would look forward

00:42:27   to getting an email down the road about?

00:42:30   Like what are kind of some of the holes or the apps

00:42:32   that you think are missing?

00:42:33   Or what attributes of apps tend to get you excited?

00:42:37   Oh, man, that's a--

00:42:39   I don't know.

00:42:40   I get a lot of--

00:42:44   I don't know.

00:42:46   I'm a huge fan of coffee apps.

00:42:48   There you go.

00:42:50   And I still haven't quite come across exactly

00:42:56   the perfect coffee app.

00:42:59   most of the coffee apps that i've i've come across

00:43:02   they they don't let you build your own recipe

00:43:05   uh... and i've got a lake

00:43:07   and i guess i can press i have a that clever driver of the sixty of an arrow

00:43:11   press at a french press

00:43:13   uh...

00:43:14   and i've got something else in forgetting about again all these coffee

00:43:18   machines and i've got like one or two or three

00:43:21   recipes for each one i just got up this whole

00:43:23   uh... plethora of going to those able brewing kids like the chem x with the

00:43:27   the thingamajigger, but they like, it's on Kickstarter.

00:43:30   - Okay.

00:43:31   - It's on its way, it finally got its shipping this week.

00:43:35   So I've got all these different things,

00:43:36   and I would love to just have like my own

00:43:38   coffee recipe book, where I can literally build

00:43:42   my own recipes for, okay, this is the grind type,

00:43:45   this is how much coffee grounds to put in,

00:43:48   this is how much water, this is the bloom time,

00:43:52   this is then the brew time, then this is when,

00:43:55   okay now here's your alarm for each, you know, okay start, okay now it's time to finish the

00:43:59   bloom, now it's time to stir, now it's time to brew, like just build out like this step

00:44:02   by step instruction. And the ones that do have that sort of workflow, they've built

00:44:08   in their own recipes and I can't edit, I can't add, or the ones that, um, that do let me

00:44:14   kind of build in some of my own recipes, they're not, they don't give me quite the type of

00:44:18   granular approach that I want. So the app that I do use now is BrewTimer, which is a

00:44:24   really nice app, but it's not quite ideal for me.

00:44:29   But it's pretty close.

00:44:30   It's the closest.

00:44:31   So I don't know, maybe that would be--

00:44:34   and then maybe something that works with Amazon S3 to edit.

00:44:39   I've heard you say that many times before.

00:44:41   You wish there was some kind of good S3 app for managing files

00:44:45   and getting public URLs and doing all that.

00:44:48   Yeah.

00:44:49   Yeah, there's nothing that I know of.

00:44:51   So I use like Hazel and Python scripts to--

00:44:54   I have this ridiculous, dorky way of uploading podcasts

00:44:59   from my phone using my media server.

00:45:02   It's super nerdy.

00:45:04   Cool.

00:45:05   Well, I just wanted to thank you so much for taking the time.

00:45:09   I think you went into a lot of detail about stuff

00:45:11   that-- some lessons I didn't even know.

00:45:13   So hopefully that's helpful to other listeners as well.

00:45:15   And instead of getting a little bit

00:45:17   into the mind of the press, and hopefully we

00:45:20   can send you less annoying emails in the future.

00:45:25   Short and sweet is always recommended.

00:45:27   Exactly.

00:45:28   And all my advice is going to be very different from a site

00:45:32   like-- Rene Ritchie, who runs iMore,

00:45:36   his site's going to be very different,

00:45:38   because they've got a whole staff.

00:45:39   They've got people dedicated to certain genres of apps

00:45:42   and things like that.

00:45:44   And so a lot of sites like that, they cover everything,

00:45:47   because they're able to.

00:45:48   And it's very different from a guy like me who can just cover the things that I'm interested in,

00:45:53   in which I am wanting to promote. It's a very different approach.

00:45:58   Though I think the premise of what we were talking about, though, I don't think changes.

00:46:04   That you're always going to be well-served to be respectful of who you're writing to,

00:46:10   of who you're pitching, to be aware and conscious of their work, and to be trying to make what

00:46:18   what you're doing relevant to them,

00:46:20   whether that's going to be,

00:46:23   we're seeing someone on a smaller site

00:46:24   or someone on a bigger site.

00:46:26   Like, those kind of rules, I think, are always going to work.

00:46:28   So, it's like, you may have more luck on a bigger site

00:46:31   because they have more bandwidth,

00:46:32   but my gut says being respectful of other people's time

00:46:37   and energy is always going to be a good idea.

00:46:40   - Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

00:46:43   - So, all right, well, I guess,

00:46:44   thank you so much for taking the time,

00:46:46   and I really appreciate it.

00:46:48   - Yeah, thanks for having me on the show.