440: Apple Bricked My House!


00:00:00   *BEEP*

00:00:00   *Music*

00:00:08   From Relay FM, happy new year.

00:00:11   This is Upgrade, episode 440.

00:00:14   It's January the 2nd, 2023.

00:00:17   This episode is brought to you by

00:00:19   Ooni Pizza Ovens, Squarespace and Fitbald.

00:00:21   Yes, if this was your first indication that it was a new year,

00:00:25   happy new year to you.

00:00:27   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by

00:00:29   Jason Snell. Hi, Jason.

00:00:30   Beep boop.

00:00:32   Beep boop.

00:00:33   Oh, no. Jason's a robot in 2020.

00:00:35   I am a robot. It's the year 2023.

00:00:37   Oh, it's the future. We're in the future now.

00:00:39   I robot now.

00:00:40   We're robot podcasts.

00:00:42   Oh, yeah. One of those robots.

00:00:45   Um, hi. It's...

00:00:46   I have been gone from my house for a couple of weeks,

00:00:50   not sitting at a desk, not talking into this microphone,

00:00:54   and I don't know how anything works anymore, so...

00:00:58   We'll work it out as we move along.

00:00:59   - You know, I'm really feeling the Monday morning podcast

00:01:03   thing right now is what I'm saying.

00:01:04   - The thing that will really help us here, right,

00:01:07   is having a very strict format for the show.

00:01:11   It's one of the great things about Upgrades.

00:01:13   And it helps you get going.

00:01:14   So we'll start off as we always do

00:01:16   with a Snow Talk question.

00:01:17   And this one comes from Zach and Zach says,

00:01:19   "Jason, do you enjoy fireworks?"

00:01:22   (laughing)

00:01:24   - A little behind the scenes everybody.

00:01:25   Originally Myke was gonna ask me

00:01:26   about my new year's resolutions or themes.

00:01:28   And I said, Myke, my answer is gonna be no,

00:01:30   I don't have any, give me something else.

00:01:33   Feed me something else.

00:01:34   - So I've given you fireworks instead.

00:01:35   - Do you enjoy fireworks?

00:01:37   - I just said, well, one was like a big meaty thing

00:01:43   and you didn't have that.

00:01:44   So I was like, well, let me go to the most simple

00:01:48   yes or no question for you.

00:01:49   - And the answer is they're pretty

00:01:52   and who doesn't like pretty sparkly things?

00:01:55   So yes, I do.

00:01:56   In fact, we just got to watch them

00:01:59   because we went to Disneyland.

00:02:02   Magical place on earth.

00:02:04   It is the, yes, the magic kingdom,

00:02:08   the happiest place on earth.

00:02:09   It's not, one of its slogans

00:02:10   is not the magical place on earth.

00:02:13   That's a little weird.

00:02:15   There's only one and it's at Disneyland.

00:02:18   You must find it.

00:02:18   Oh, Jason, I hate you right now.

00:02:21   At 9.30, at 9.30 PM, they do fireworks.

00:02:26   And we got there, we got up at 6 AM

00:02:29   and we got there by like before eight.

00:02:32   - I was close.

00:02:33   - And make a full day of it.

00:02:34   - The tagline that I was going for

00:02:36   was the most magical place on earth,

00:02:38   which was one of the taglines for the Magic Kingdom,

00:02:41   according to Wikipedia.

00:02:42   That's what I just forgot to say most.

00:02:45   - Okay, you got five out of the six words.

00:02:51   Anyway, we managed to gut it out

00:02:54   and get all the way to the fireworks

00:02:56   and watch the fireworks and they were very pretty.

00:02:58   And then we went home, went to bed and slept like logs

00:03:01   because that was a very long day.

00:03:03   - I wanna know everything about your Disneyland experience,

00:03:07   but we're not gonna talk about it in the regular show.

00:03:10   I'm gonna save that for Upgrade Plus.

00:03:11   I wanna know everything.

00:03:13   We got a lot on the docket today.

00:03:15   I feel like maybe you shouldn't derail the entire episode

00:03:17   asking you about Disneyland.

00:03:19   So go to getupgradeplus.com.

00:03:20   you can sign up and hear what Jason thinks about Disneyland.

00:03:24   - I should say also, also well aware,

00:03:28   amateurs firing off fireworks at midnight

00:03:30   on New Year's Eve are annoying.

00:03:34   Many animals are disturbed by fireworks.

00:03:35   In fact, our dog growing up, we had to give him a pill.

00:03:40   And we brought him in the house

00:03:43   'cause he was an outside dog,

00:03:43   but we would bring him in the house on 4th of July,

00:03:46   give him a pill, and then he would just sleep

00:03:48   in front of the stove because he got very upset

00:03:53   by the sound of the fireworks.

00:03:54   So understandable, and yet as a human,

00:03:58   I enjoy the fireworks.

00:03:59   They're very bright and shiny and fun.

00:04:01   - I like fireworks.

00:04:02   I think nobody should be able to buy fireworks.

00:04:04   I think fireworks should be a thing

00:04:06   that are professionals only.

00:04:08   - Yeah, yeah, I agree.

00:04:10   Just you'll blow your hand off with those fireworks.

00:04:12   Don't do it.

00:04:13   And I say this again, as somebody whose father

00:04:15   would buy fireworks and fire them all off,

00:04:17   from a table on the 4th of July.

00:04:21   And it's amazing that we didn't all explode/burn down.

00:04:26   - If you would like to send in a Snow Talk question

00:04:29   of your own, you can send them out via Twitter

00:04:31   with the hashtag SnowTalk.

00:04:32   You can use question mark SnowTalk

00:04:33   in the Relay FM members Discord.

00:04:35   And probably by the next time you hear this,

00:04:37   we'll have our feedback system up and running.

00:04:40   So maybe when you're listening to this,

00:04:42   if you go to the webpage for this episode,

00:04:44   you'll see a little thing that says feedback

00:04:46   and you could send it in that way too.

00:04:48   We'll talk about it next week more

00:04:49   because it should be up and running by next week.

00:04:51   - Great.

00:04:53   - I have some follow up for you, Jason.

00:04:55   - Okay.

00:04:56   - Nine to five Mac is reporting that the iPhone 14 Pro,

00:05:00   its availability now appears to be improving.

00:05:04   Wait times are decreasing for home delivery.

00:05:06   Some models have same day pickup.

00:05:08   So Apple seems to be getting their hands

00:05:10   around this issue now.

00:05:12   - You know how I knew this was happening?

00:05:14   because, okay, over the holiday, I'm an American,

00:05:18   a lot of football, a lot of college football,

00:05:20   a lot of professional football, a lot of football on.

00:05:23   And I watch the football, and not that football

00:05:27   that you're thinking of, the actual American football.

00:05:29   Anyway, I have noticed with amusement

00:05:33   that for a while they were running iPhone 14 ads,

00:05:41   which have a Idris Elba song behind them.

00:05:46   - Yeah, I like that song.

00:05:48   It's fun.

00:05:49   - Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

00:05:50   I was like, this sort of sounds like it's Idris Elba.

00:05:52   I looked it up.

00:05:53   He is the artist on that track.

00:05:55   Okay.

00:05:56   Anyway, last week I noticed all of a sudden

00:06:01   they're doing the iPhone 14 Pro ads again

00:06:08   with a different song.

00:06:10   and I thought, and with the dynamic island and all of that,

00:06:13   and I thought they must have them in stock again, right?

00:06:17   Like, cause they very much stopped for the holidays.

00:06:21   Like they stopped advertising the iPhone 14 Pro.

00:06:24   And like right after Christmas, boom, they were back.

00:06:28   So obviously they are catching up now.

00:06:33   And whether that is that they are meeting more demand

00:06:36   or whether that's the demand has gone down

00:06:38   because it's post Christmas now, I don't know.

00:06:42   But what better sign that the iPhone 14 Pro is back

00:06:47   than that Apple's actually advertising it again

00:06:49   after they stopped for a while and said,

00:06:51   "No, no, the iPhone 14 is great, 14, 14."

00:06:55   So yeah, it's back, baby.

00:06:59   - I went into the Apple Store app today

00:07:01   to kind of just look at this myself.

00:07:02   And there are, most of the phones

00:07:04   were still into January here,

00:07:05   but there was one thing that I don't recall seeing before.

00:07:08   You know, like you get the delivery dates

00:07:10   and it's like available in store for home delivery.

00:07:14   There was a button that said need it sooner.

00:07:16   And if I tap that, it showed me different models,

00:07:20   either colors or sizes that were immediately available

00:07:23   for in-store pickup and stuff like that.

00:07:25   I thought that was very interesting.

00:07:27   It was silent at times.

00:07:29   But yes, I think the key here is

00:07:32   now that the Christmas rush is mostly over, I would expect,

00:07:37   and/or they've gotten their production more in check,

00:07:41   which we've been talking about,

00:07:42   which we were talking about before all of the holiday

00:07:46   frivolities that have occurred on the show

00:07:47   over the last few weeks,

00:07:49   that Apple have kind of gotten that

00:07:51   a little bit more under control.

00:07:54   But I'm still very keen to see what the hole

00:07:58   in the earnings report's gonna be

00:07:59   for what this Christmas has done.

00:08:02   - Yeah.

00:08:03   - We spoke about third-party app stores

00:08:05   during the antitrust holiday special.

00:08:07   And we had--

00:08:09   - It's the most wonderful time of the year, sorry.

00:08:11   It's the wonderful time of the year.

00:08:12   - The wonderful, thank you.

00:08:14   No, it's wonderful time of the year.

00:08:16   - It's wonderful time of year.

00:08:18   - It's wonderful time of year.

00:08:19   And Mark wrote in a piece of feedback,

00:08:22   which was something I wanted to talk about on the episode,

00:08:25   and so we could talk about it now.

00:08:27   I'll read this remark.

00:08:28   It's a chunk, but let me get through it.

00:08:32   I think there is a huge risk from companies like Epic or Meta or Amazon or TikTok or others

00:08:38   launching stores with free apps that are quickly seen as indispensable hot new things by people.

00:08:43   Typically younger audiences, for example my teenage kids, are in the thrall of Snap and

00:08:47   TikTok and be real because all their friends are.

00:08:50   I think this presents a huge risk because most parents will not be able to resist allowing

00:08:54   this, and once they're all set up on those stores it quickly becomes uncool to use the

00:08:58   boring regular app store.

00:09:00   It's not a certainty, but it seems this would be exactly what Meta or ByteDance and Co would

00:09:05   immediately work hard to achieve.

00:09:07   Do you think this is a tangible risk?

00:09:09   If not, how so?

00:09:10   Well, this is a thing that I've heard a lot when people talk about third party app stores.

00:09:14   It's just like, oh, Facebook will set one up and then they'll leave the app store.

00:09:18   But there is a case in, there is an existing case, which is Android, where there have been

00:09:25   people can sideload and put third party apps on their devices.

00:09:29   historically it was proven this is not a good idea for anybody and most of the

00:09:34   apps that have done this have either had multiple versions or ended up just kind

00:09:39   of abandoning it right I also kind of feel like just you know again Android

00:09:46   and iOS they're different you know we don't really know how it would go on iOS

00:09:50   but my kind of feeling is like all of these apps that Mark's mentioned they

00:09:55   They need to be where the mass market is.

00:09:58   They need to do that.

00:09:59   - That's right.

00:10:00   - Epic did it with Fortnite, kind of,

00:10:05   but there's a whole different thing

00:10:06   around what's going on with Fortnite.

00:10:09   Where they wanted to get kicked off the store

00:10:11   so they could try and get their own store.

00:10:14   But they got a whole other play going on.

00:10:16   Because Epic actually do already

00:10:17   run their own store business.

00:10:19   So it's like Steam would like their own store as well.

00:10:22   But I don't really imagine Meta wanting to set up

00:10:26   their own app store and then only offer Instagram

00:10:29   and Facebook and Facebook Messenger through it.

00:10:32   'Cause they, and even if they did wanna do that,

00:10:36   I can't imagine that they also still wouldn't offer

00:10:38   those apps in the app store, right?

00:10:40   - Right.

00:10:41   This is the, and we did address this in the episode,

00:10:44   but the idea here is that yes, it's been tried on Android

00:10:47   and everybody realizes you need to be

00:10:48   in the default app store.

00:10:50   These are huge businesses.

00:10:52   the last thing they wanna do is make people go through

00:10:53   a multi-stage process to sideload their app

00:10:57   off of the App Store.

00:10:59   Because although you might say, oh, you know, indispensable

00:11:02   and my kids are in the thrall of Snapchat or whatever,

00:11:05   the truth is they, you know, giving up whatever the number

00:11:10   is 90%, 80%, 60% of your audience who won't follow you

00:11:15   out of the App Store is not an option.

00:11:17   It's not an option, right?

00:11:19   And there are very few companies are gonna say,

00:11:20   let us sabotage our primary business

00:11:23   in order to do this App Store thing that we wanna do.

00:11:25   Like, try to pencil out how that makes sense

00:11:28   for almost anybody.

00:11:29   - Imagine if this does work, right?

00:11:31   Imagine if this is the thing and they go

00:11:33   and like people then wanna use the meta App Store

00:11:36   'cause it's got like a bunch of cool games in it

00:11:38   or whatever that are free.

00:11:40   I feel like there's still two things left, which is one,

00:11:43   Apple's still going to offer some level of protection,

00:11:46   some kind of like threat protection,

00:11:47   notarization or whatever for like truly bad stuff.

00:11:50   Then the only difference is the guidelines, right?

00:11:53   I feel like.

00:11:54   - Yeah.

00:11:55   - And I still feel like companies of this size,

00:11:59   like a meta or whatever,

00:12:01   they can't let truly terrible stuff

00:12:02   in an app store that they control.

00:12:04   Like just from a PR perspective.

00:12:08   - Well, the argument becomes,

00:12:09   oh, well, it'll be creepy and, you know,

00:12:13   it'll do app tracking and stuff like that, right?

00:12:16   It'll be creepy in terms of tracking your behavior.

00:12:20   It's like, okay, yeah, and that's not great,

00:12:24   but the solution is not to use it.

00:12:26   And I would probably argue that, you know,

00:12:29   if you're using Facebook or TikTok today,

00:12:34   I mean, they may not be, they know all about you yet.

00:12:38   They may not be doing third-party tracking,

00:12:40   but they're tracking you already.

00:12:41   So I think that's a little bit ridiculous.

00:12:44   I also, I gotta be honest,

00:12:46   we got a bunch of feedback about this,

00:12:48   where for people who are fighting the last war,

00:12:51   there are a lot of people who seem to be arguing with us

00:12:53   about why Apple shouldn't do this.

00:12:55   So let me just put it again, what we said in that episode,

00:12:59   which is we're not talking about

00:13:02   whether Apple should do this.

00:13:03   We're talking about a report from a reporter

00:13:06   with great credibility saying Apple is doing this

00:13:10   because it has to do it.

00:13:12   So you can argue all you like

00:13:14   about why you think it's still a bad idea,

00:13:17   but it's happening, right?

00:13:18   Because the EU is making it happen.

00:13:20   And so the question becomes,

00:13:22   what are the ramifications of this?

00:13:24   And if you're concerned about this stuff, I get it.

00:13:27   But I think we've said before, and we just said again today,

00:13:31   I think people are overstating it

00:13:33   because I think they are hyping up the arguments

00:13:35   about why Apple shouldn't do it.

00:13:37   And Apple is number one in hyping those arguments,

00:13:40   but I think they overdo it.

00:13:42   I think that the rhetoric on this is overheated

00:13:46   and it will not be that big a deal.

00:13:49   It will be a big deal, but not like a cataclysm

00:13:52   because of what we just said,

00:13:53   which is very few companies are going to make the risk

00:13:58   of pulling their whole business out of the app store

00:14:00   and hoping to walk you through a multi-stage process

00:14:04   to get you across to their store.

00:14:07   Most companies are not gonna,

00:14:09   even if they go in other app stores or offer a sideload,

00:14:12   are not gonna wanna abandon the app store

00:14:14   because it is the easiest.

00:14:15   And if you're a parent, I mean, you say,

00:14:17   "Well, my kids are gonna, I don't know,

00:14:19   bully me into turning it off

00:14:20   so that they can have this coolness."

00:14:22   Like, it raises the bar.

00:14:24   And the answer is, as a parent, you have to say,

00:14:26   "Nuh-uh, I'm not letting you out of the App Store."

00:14:29   And I think a lot of parents won't.

00:14:30   And again, then if you're an app

00:14:31   that's trying to appeal to that audience,

00:14:33   you once again are faced with that same dilemma,

00:14:36   which is, well, how many audience members do I lose

00:14:41   by not being in the App Store?

00:14:44   And I'm telling you, for almost every case,

00:14:47   the answer is too many.

00:14:48   - And the other thing about this is,

00:14:52   part of I think the thing we keep talking about is that

00:14:56   it should never have had to get here.

00:14:58   Like this should have been something

00:15:00   that Apple should have dealt with on their own,

00:15:01   but they decided not to.

00:15:03   Out of greed, really, I think.

00:15:06   At some point, it changed from any other reason it was

00:15:09   just to greed.

00:15:10   And now,

00:15:13   as Jason said, the train has left the station, right?

00:15:15   Like it's happening.

00:15:17   So now we're just talking about like,

00:15:19   how are they gonna make it work?

00:15:20   'Cause they're gonna have to.

00:15:21   - Right, what form will it take?

00:15:23   And what will it result is where we are.

00:15:26   But I remain convinced

00:15:29   that you're not gonna have mainstream apps

00:15:33   that just utterly abandon the app store for their own thing

00:15:37   and make everybody go through those hoops

00:15:39   in order to get out of the app store.

00:15:41   because as I said a couple of weeks ago,

00:15:44   most people won't do it, right?

00:15:45   Most people are gonna be, are gonna get that,

00:15:48   this app may kill you warning from Apple and be like,

00:15:51   "Oh, I don't wanna die, no."

00:15:55   The end, right?

00:15:56   End scene.

00:15:57   And they didn't sideload anything, right?

00:16:00   And so like, it's a big, it's not to use this phrase,

00:16:04   but I guess I'll use it, it's a big ask.

00:16:05   It is a very high level request to get somebody

00:16:07   to turn off all those features

00:16:09   and install something from the outside.

00:16:10   And like most people are just not gonna do it.

00:16:12   The App Store is too easy.

00:16:14   It's too easy.

00:16:14   - I wanted to do a quick piece of follow-out to something.

00:16:18   So back in September, my friend Ian visited London

00:16:21   and Mega Studio and we shot a studio tour video

00:16:24   that I'd previously spoken about on the show.

00:16:26   We also recorded like an interview.

00:16:28   So he sat down and interviewed me.

00:16:30   And I've done a bunch of interviews over the many years

00:16:34   about podcasting and on various shows and stuff.

00:16:37   But this time it was about other things,

00:16:39   which I really enjoyed.

00:16:41   So we spoke about kind of my product design work

00:16:43   at Cortex Brand and my keyboard and streaming stuff.

00:16:47   So I really liked how this turned out.

00:16:49   I was very proud of it.

00:16:50   And these are important things in my life

00:16:52   that I don't get to talk about very much.

00:16:54   And so I wanted to let people know that it's out there

00:16:56   if they wanna listen to it.

00:16:58   Or watch it, it's a YouTube video.

00:17:00   I mean, you could listen,

00:17:01   but you probably also would wanna watch.

00:17:04   Also, Jason, this is what it's like

00:17:07   when I don't use Twitter anymore.

00:17:09   Like this is where I now, if I have things like this,

00:17:13   I have to talk about them on my shows.

00:17:15   - That's true. - This is like a weird,

00:17:17   like a weird thing that I'm trying to work out still.

00:17:19   - So was that a tweet just there?

00:17:20   - Yeah, I just tweeted, yeah. - Was that a tweet saying,

00:17:22   I have a video you should see?

00:17:24   - In case you missed it, it's this YouTube video.

00:17:28   You know, that's what I'm doing now.

00:17:30   This episode is brought to you by our friends

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00:17:39   but I will tell you anyway,

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00:19:13   It's so nice to get that extra, the extra heat

00:19:16   of the, of like, my oven only goes up to about 500 inside,

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00:19:36   the pros at the great pizza places

00:19:38   all have the wood-fired ovens that are super hot.

00:19:40   And you can't get that in your regular home oven.

00:19:43   And then for me, I just have,

00:19:44   mine is the model that is attached to propane.

00:19:47   So I have a propane cylinder.

00:19:49   It's literally the same propane cylinder

00:19:51   I have for a gas grill.

00:19:53   It's the same one we have for our gas heater, for our patio.

00:19:56   It is exactly the same cylinder and you just attach it

00:19:59   and boom, you've got 700 degree heat to make those pizzas.

00:20:03   So good.

00:20:05   - Go and check this out for yourself right now

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00:20:20   Ooni Pizza Ovens are the best way

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00:20:26   Our thanks to Ooni Pizza Ovens for their support

00:20:28   this show and relay FM saddle on up partner it's time for a room around up

00:20:35   yeah okay is that still what we do it's ten it's 23 I don't even know anymore I

00:20:41   mean we're a little bit more modern with our roundups you know like maybe there's

00:20:47   like carts now as well as just the horses but okay moving slowly into the

00:20:52   future. With iOS 16.2, Apple released an architecture update for the home app

00:20:59   that was intended to improve a lot of HomeKit reliability stuff and enable

00:21:03   full support for MATA. This required people updating every device that was

00:21:09   attached to their home and it was complicated. It was actually something I

00:21:13   hadn't gone through yet because it was just like I looked at it and it was like

00:21:16   you got these three days just too much of a pain so I just didn't get around to

00:21:19   it. This has now been pulled from 16.2. You can no longer do the upgrade. It is expected

00:21:34   this may have been because of some reports of people having issues with their homekit

00:21:39   scenes or devices no longer working. MacRumors is reporting that "Apple has added the Home

00:21:45   app update to a database of hardware and software issues internally, which is a rare move for

00:21:51   a software-related problem. The list used by Apple, Apple stores, and authorized service

00:21:55   providers typically only includes widespread issues faced by customers, including mostly

00:22:00   hardware problems. So it's not going great for the new home architecture. You could say,

00:22:05   Jason, that the foundations of this are a little shaky.

00:22:10   Ooh, I see what you did there.

00:22:12   The roof's a little leaky.

00:22:15   - I'm sad about this,

00:22:19   'cause I've also seen like a couple of companies

00:22:21   that were doing their Matter upgrades,

00:22:23   they've delayed them.

00:22:24   Seems like this has maybe been a little bit more complicated

00:22:27   to implement than was otherwise expected.

00:22:31   - Yeah, it's gonna, I mean, we did say

00:22:32   it's gonna be a transitional period, it's gonna be rough.

00:22:35   And this is, I believe this isn't even Matter,

00:22:38   it's the new architecture that allows them

00:22:39   to support matter.

00:22:41   And I will say clearly they built a trap door into this.

00:22:44   So they must have been a little wary of that

00:22:46   because they built in a thing that let them flip the switch

00:22:48   and like not offer that upgrade.

00:22:52   And it was already not like you had to go looking for it.

00:22:56   So this was all a very careful test rollout of this.

00:23:01   So I'm not really surprised,

00:23:05   but it is a little disappointing.

00:23:08   But then again, I also liked the fact

00:23:09   that Apple is being careful with this, right?

00:23:12   And not just doing what I think an Apple in the past

00:23:14   might have done, which is just roll it out to everybody

00:23:16   and go, "Good luck!"

00:23:18   And then have bad things happen to people's homes, right?

00:23:22   Which is not good.

00:23:23   Like, my lights don't work anymore.

00:23:25   - Do you remember like the days

00:23:27   where they would have an iOS update?

00:23:28   - Apple bricked my house!

00:23:30   Right, that'd be the story, right?

00:23:32   - Do you remember they used to have those days

00:23:33   of iOS updates where they would roll them out

00:23:36   and something terrible would happen and they'd have to stop?

00:23:39   Like there was like a thing of like,

00:23:40   if you would do the iOS update

00:23:42   and it would like break your entire device,

00:23:44   that stuff is rough.

00:23:45   I think that's why they do these things now

00:23:47   where if you have automatic updates on,

00:23:50   they don't push it immediately.

00:23:52   Like it can sometimes take a little while,

00:23:54   like download it and maybe they have like a thing

00:23:56   where they then start updating them on a rolling basis.

00:23:59   Like the automatic update stuff,

00:24:00   it's not like as soon as the update comes out,

00:24:02   it just goes for it.

00:24:04   It's interesting.

00:24:05   - Yeah, they're being careful.

00:24:06   And that seems to have paid off in this case,

00:24:10   that they needed to be careful.

00:24:12   - According to posts shared by MacRumors,

00:24:14   Apple is supposedly quote, "seriously concerned"

00:24:18   about the sales of the iPhone 14 Plus.

00:24:21   So this is the bigger phone.

00:24:25   This is in the, I call this on connected,

00:24:27   the cursed spot for, I think now, for the iPhone lineup.

00:24:32   Right, 'cause it replaced the mini.

00:24:35   And it seems like this spot is a bad spot.

00:24:38   And Apple seems to be aware of that

00:24:40   because they are now supposedly reevaluating

00:24:43   the iPhone 15 lineup due to this.

00:24:46   I don't know what they could do.

00:24:47   Go on.

00:24:48   - Can I give you a little,

00:24:50   can I have a moment of schadenfreude here, please?

00:24:52   - Please.

00:24:53   (laughing)

00:24:55   - Oh, it turns out it isn't the Mini, is it?

00:24:59   The Mini isn't the problem, is it?

00:25:02   - Yeah.

00:25:04   - I mean, it was a problem.

00:25:05   - But they just, they rearranged the deck chairs.

00:25:08   It's still a problem.

00:25:09   Let's make it big instead of small.

00:25:11   Surely that is the reason.

00:25:13   It's the smallness that offended, no, it's not.

00:25:16   Turns out I, okay, Myke, what do you think about this?

00:25:20   Ready?

00:25:21   This is a new thing we're doing in 2023 until we stop.

00:25:23   It's just in this episode though, probably.

00:25:25   Okay.

00:25:27   What if the iPhone 14's appeal,

00:25:29   let's assume the iPhone 14 does okay, right?

00:25:31   The Plus, the Mini haven't done well,

00:25:33   but the 14 does okay.

00:25:34   What if the iPhone 14's appeal is that it's cheap

00:25:37   and that's it?

00:25:39   And then, and like, it's a cheap regular phone.

00:25:43   What if that's it?

00:25:45   What if there is no like, oh, we've got two models

00:25:48   and people can choose.

00:25:49   And it's like, that's too complicated.

00:25:51   That they've, you've got the Pro,

00:25:53   which is like the really nice good phone that people get

00:25:55   if they've got the money to spend on the cutting edge.

00:25:57   And then you've got an option,

00:25:59   an option for something that's cheaper,

00:26:01   that's not on the cutting edge,

00:26:03   it's sort of a year back in terms of tech.

00:26:05   Like, I wonder if Apple has over complicated this.

00:26:08   I wonder if the truth is that most people,

00:26:10   at least the volumes that they wanna see, right?

00:26:13   Like not an SE or not a mini or a plus.

00:26:16   What if the complexity, like there's too much complexity

00:26:21   and it's really like you've got the Pro and the Pro Max

00:26:25   and then you've got a phone that's cheaper.

00:26:28   What if that's the most complexity that the market can bear

00:26:32   in terms of what consumers are looking for?

00:26:34   That there are very few consumers who are like,

00:26:37   well, I don't want the cutting edge great phone.

00:26:39   I want something cheaper.

00:26:41   Now let's shop in the line of cheaper phones

00:26:43   because it seems like that's sort of not happening.

00:26:45   And then like, and on one level,

00:26:48   I would say this is a success of like an iPhone 14, right?

00:26:53   And the 13 before it, like having a plain iPhone

00:26:58   As a cheaper model, I think maybe also was not necessarily

00:27:03   something that was going to succeed,

00:27:05   but it seems to have succeeded.

00:27:06   But then like blooming a lineup around it and being like,

00:27:11   ah, now that you pick from a bigger one or a smaller one

00:27:13   is like, maybe it's not the size,

00:27:18   maybe it's the complexity

00:27:20   that where people are just rejecting it.

00:27:21   It's like, no, no, no, I just want the iPhone that's cheaper.

00:27:25   Not the big iPhone, not the little iPhone,

00:27:27   just the iPhone that's cheaper.

00:27:29   And that beyond that,

00:27:30   Apple's trying to cut this too fine, I wonder.

00:27:33   - I agree with you.

00:27:35   I'm gonna say something slightly different,

00:27:37   but I do agree with you.

00:27:37   Where I think the issue might not be the complexity,

00:27:41   it's the simplicity of the other option,

00:27:43   which is like, hey, it's the cheap one,

00:27:46   but different in this one way.

00:27:48   And that maybe that's not enough.

00:27:51   - Yeah, well, that's, I mean,

00:27:51   that's what I mean by the complexity is that,

00:27:53   is that the, yes, it,

00:27:55   once you get past that first layer,

00:27:57   which is it's the cheap one.

00:27:58   I wonder if there's really a lot of desire

00:28:00   from any potential buyer to sort through the options

00:28:04   other than like, instead of just being like,

00:28:06   can I just have the default now, please?

00:28:09   So yes, you're saying what I'm saying,

00:28:10   which is that there's a simplicity and a complexity.

00:28:13   And are we surprised?

00:28:15   Maybe we shouldn't be.

00:28:16   That the consumers as a whole

00:28:19   don't really want that extra layer of complexity.

00:28:22   Maybe. - Like the thing

00:28:23   we don't know, like we don't know

00:28:25   is how this is sold compared to the Mini, right?

00:28:28   - Right.

00:28:29   - My expectation was it would sell more,

00:28:31   but I don't know that.

00:28:32   And even though Apple seemed seriously concerned,

00:28:34   it could have sold more, but now the concern is,

00:28:37   oh no, the problem is actually this fourth spot is bad.

00:28:42   Like the way we are doing this doesn't work.

00:28:45   So.

00:28:46   - And the way this is reported is also,

00:28:50   and this is all very hazy, right?

00:28:51   'Cause it's only people inside Apple actually know this.

00:28:53   So there's just sort of like hubbub,

00:28:56   like little rumors, little rhubarb of like,

00:28:58   (mumbles)

00:28:58   what if it's bad?

00:28:59   But if we take it seriously,

00:29:01   and this is same time two years ago

00:29:03   where they said they're not gonna do the mini again

00:29:05   after next year, right?

00:29:06   They still had those plans in process, so they did it.

00:29:09   But they had very quickly, they looked at the numbers.

00:29:12   This is like a show opening and closing on Broadway

00:29:16   after like one performance,

00:29:17   where they look at the numbers,

00:29:18   they're like, it's not gonna make it.

00:29:20   So I think that that's interesting.

00:29:23   The way that this is phrased is not,

00:29:24   oh, they're worried about cannibalization from the Pro Max.

00:29:27   Like the Pro Max sales are doing fine, apparently, right?

00:29:30   The Pro and Pro Max sales are doing fine.

00:29:33   And so, yes, I agree with you.

00:29:34   I think maybe it's this slot

00:29:36   and that the idea that they are varying it in this way

00:29:40   in giving you two choices at the low end

00:29:43   that people don't want two choices

00:29:44   at the low end necessarily.

00:29:46   And I think that's interesting, right?

00:29:47   Like, look, let's harken back to when Apple

00:29:52   only sold one phone size.

00:29:53   And Samsung went out there and sold a bunch

00:29:57   of different ones and found out that bigger phones

00:29:59   had appeal.

00:30:01   And the power in that, as much as Samsung's approach

00:30:04   is not Apple's approach, the power in that is that

00:30:06   they got to, they didn't just theorize

00:30:09   about what people wanted.

00:30:11   And I know that people, especially in Apple spheres,

00:30:13   talk about the whole faster horse thing.

00:30:15   The truth is, as much advantage as Apple gains, I think,

00:30:19   in making judgments itself

00:30:22   instead of a focus group testing everything, right?

00:30:26   Like I think there's benefit in that,

00:30:28   in having confidence in your own vision.

00:30:30   It's not, you know,

00:30:32   it's not the same as putting a product in the market

00:30:34   and seeing what happens, right?

00:30:35   That is the ultimate test,

00:30:37   is actually releasing the product and seeing what happens.

00:30:41   And nobody knows, right?

00:30:43   Apple doesn't know, Samsung didn't know,

00:30:46   Samsung didn't know, right?

00:30:47   Samsung tried a bunch of stuff

00:30:48   And they learned that a big phone was a thing,

00:30:52   but it's not like Samsung said,

00:30:53   "We believe a large phone will sell,"

00:30:56   and released a big phone first thing,

00:30:58   and was like, "See, we were right."

00:30:59   That's not what they did.

00:31:00   They released a bunch of stuff, and then they learned.

00:31:02   And this may be one of those cases where like Apple,

00:31:05   you think Apple knows the iPhone market really well,

00:31:08   and of course they do.

00:31:09   They know lots of details about where these models sell,

00:31:12   and when they sell, and who's buying old models,

00:31:14   and who's buying new models,

00:31:15   and how it differs based on the geographic location.

00:31:19   They know all of that stuff, right?

00:31:20   But there are things that they can't know

00:31:24   unless they try it.

00:31:25   And if this is true, it's fascinating

00:31:29   'cause it is Apple like doing,

00:31:31   it's like the scientific method happening

00:31:33   except with a two year delay

00:31:35   because of the way Apple does its product designs

00:31:38   where they're like, okay, let's do the mini phone.

00:31:40   Hmm, that didn't work.

00:31:42   Well, let's do a bigger phone.

00:31:43   Hmm, that didn't work.

00:31:44   And like, what's the lesson from that?

00:31:46   And again, I'm not sure they know,

00:31:48   but they can at least try to extrapolate,

00:31:51   try to intuit from the reaction of the consumer base,

00:31:56   of the audience, of the market, what's going on here.

00:32:00   And I guess we'll find out in two years

00:32:03   or maybe with a shift in their marketing strategy in a year.

00:32:08   - The expectation from these reports

00:32:11   is that Apple's considering two approaches for the iPhone 15.

00:32:15   One is to reduce the price of the 15 Plus.

00:32:19   I don't think that will do it.

00:32:21   Or to further differentiate the features of each model.

00:32:24   Now, you know, to actually make it like,

00:32:27   here are four phones and they have

00:32:30   like four different feature sets.

00:32:32   Now I would assume, I think, and be correct,

00:32:35   that the hardware is set for the 15 line.

00:32:38   So if they're gonna do that,

00:32:39   I expect it's some kind of marketing difference really that they would talk about.

00:32:43   But maybe I give it some software features or whatever as being the bigger phone.

00:32:47   I think that them splitting out the line more,

00:32:51   we're going to talk about the ultra in a minute,

00:32:53   the idea of an ultra in a minute, a little bit, uh, that could do something,

00:32:57   but I don't know what, right. Um,

00:32:59   if they continue to differentiate the line by pushing the most expensive phone

00:33:04   away from the pro phone, there could be something there. I don't know.

00:33:09   Maybe they'll just go iPhone, two Pros and then Ultra.

00:33:14   I don't know.

00:33:15   - Yeah, I had one thought about this that, I mean,

00:33:19   I'm sure this is an argument that everybody at Apple

00:33:21   had like three weeks ago, but I'll just throw it out there,

00:33:24   which is, I wonder if you could reduce complexity

00:33:27   by taking a page from the iPad and the MacBook

00:33:32   and saying, here is the iPhone 15.

00:33:38   it comes in two sizes.

00:33:39   Instead of having it be iPhone 15 and 15 Plus

00:33:44   and 15 Pro and 15 Pro Max or 15 Ultra, right?

00:33:47   Where there's like all, like they're different products.

00:33:50   I wonder if they might do better,

00:33:51   maybe it wouldn't make any difference,

00:33:53   but I wonder if they might do better

00:33:54   if they just said, here's the iPhone 15,

00:33:57   it comes in two sizes, which one do you prefer?

00:34:00   The more expensive one is, you know,

00:34:02   it's bigger and it's $50 more expensive or something.

00:34:05   Something, you know, maybe a little less

00:34:07   than the current spread between them.

00:34:10   Like just and keep it simple of like,

00:34:11   okay, great, we have two, which one do you want?

00:34:14   Would that work?

00:34:16   Would that help?

00:34:17   I'm not sure.

00:34:17   I mean, you're trying to do the best you can

00:34:19   with what you, if the hardware is already baked, right?

00:34:22   It's like, how do we, all you can really vary

00:34:24   is like how you sell it and how you price it.

00:34:26   But I've also had that thought,

00:34:28   which is in the long run,

00:34:30   would you be better off having an iPhone Ultra

00:34:32   and an iPhone Pro and an iPhone

00:34:34   and differentiating that way instead

00:34:37   and an iPhone SE or something and just keep it like we're not going to do two of each

00:34:41   iPhone anymore we're going to do three iPhones and let people choose.

00:34:47   And the successor to the iPhone 14 Pro Max which we're calling iPhone 15 Ultra for the

00:34:52   time being is now expected to not be wholly assembled at Foxconn.

00:34:58   Taiwanese research firm Trend Force is reporting that LuxShare will be taking on some of the

00:35:02   work for this product.

00:35:05   Luxier is also a Chinese manufacturer, so this isn't them differentiating their locations,

00:35:11   the geographical thing we've spoken about before, but more potentially to differentiate

00:35:16   from Foxconn because Foxconn has had its own set of specific problems in 2022 with

00:35:22   upset workers and rioting and pay issues and all that kind of stuff.

00:35:27   So this is a split, but it's not the split maybe that we were looking for.

00:35:32   Luxier has been key for Apple.

00:35:34   They do the AirPods manufacturing.

00:35:36   They've done some, they dabbled in some iPhone stuff as well

00:35:40   but AirPods is what they are mostly used for.

00:35:43   So this is at least them continuing to like spread a bit.

00:35:48   It is wild that they have so many eggs

00:35:50   in just this one big basket.

00:35:52   So I guess this is just an example

00:35:53   of them spreading that out a bit more.

00:35:56   - Yeah, interesting.

00:35:57   - So it's moving on a little bit.

00:36:01   It's now 2023, as we mentioned.

00:36:03   And so, as promised, the Dark Sky app is gone.

00:36:08   - It's gotten real dark now.

00:36:09   - Yeah, it's very dark.

00:36:10   It's the darkest. - The darkest.

00:36:11   - Is it darker or has the dark sky gone away

00:36:14   so now it's light?

00:36:15   - Well, it is always darkest before the dawn.

00:36:17   - Interesting, so we're in the dawn.

00:36:19   It's dawn sky now.

00:36:21   Anyway, Apple bought Dark Sky.

00:36:22   - Red sky at morning, sailors take warning.

00:36:25   - Okay.

00:36:26   Is that how it is?

00:36:28   'Cause I know it's like red sky night sailors delight.

00:36:31   Red Sky at morning, sailors take a warning.

00:36:34   - Isn't it shepherds?

00:36:35   - I mean, maybe in England, do you not have sailors?

00:36:38   You have sailors in England?

00:36:40   Sailors here.

00:36:41   Very sail oriented. - Anyway,

00:36:43   Dark Sky was bought by Apple a couple of years ago

00:36:47   and they promised to keep the app and the API running

00:36:51   for a period of time.

00:36:52   - Yeah, until the far future of 2023.

00:36:55   - And it's now here.

00:36:56   So the app is now gone.

00:36:58   It was like January 1st, gone.

00:37:00   The API is set to be closed in March.

00:37:04   I use and have used the Dark Sky API source option,

00:37:09   I guess, in cara weather for a long time.

00:37:12   And so now I'm wondering what to move to instead.

00:37:17   The reason I have used Dark Sky is because

00:37:20   I find it to be very reliable with weather in general,

00:37:23   but of course the rain notifications

00:37:26   and forecasting is the key for Dark Sky.

00:37:29   and it's always been great for me here.

00:37:31   And it's helpful in a few months of the year.

00:37:34   It doesn't rain 12 months of the year in the UK,

00:37:37   people think it does, it doesn't,

00:37:39   but it does rain a lot during a period of time.

00:37:42   So dark skies have always been important to me,

00:37:46   and I'm wondering if maybe should I just move

00:37:48   to Apple weather now as a thing?

00:37:51   I mean, I would expect they would be able

00:37:54   to do a decent enough job.

00:37:56   today changed my source in Carrot weather in one app and left it in Dark

00:38:01   Sky for the other and the forecasts were completely different. So for example Dark

00:38:08   Sky today said the feels like temperature of six degrees Celsius Apple

00:38:12   weather said five degrees. Well it can't be today right it was like yesterday or

00:38:16   two days ago. No this is today I looked today. Dark Sky API March.

00:38:22   - Oh, API, okay. - Yeah.

00:38:24   Precipitation in Dark Sky was 19% chance

00:38:29   and in Apple Weather was 0% chance.

00:38:32   - Here's a theory I have.

00:38:33   So Dark Sky is aggregating weather data

00:38:35   from different sources.

00:38:36   And so now so is Apple Weather.

00:38:38   They don't have their own like, bureau.

00:38:41   And I wonder if they, in the move to Apple Weather,

00:38:46   if they have continued to update and change

00:38:48   their data sources and their model,

00:38:51   than if they parked the Dark Sky API a while ago

00:38:54   and haven't made any changes to it.

00:38:56   That's my guess, just-

00:38:58   - So maybe this is better is what you're saying.

00:39:00   - Based on the fact that, well, it's certainly different.

00:39:02   Based on the fact that you're seeing different data,

00:39:03   they're obviously not identical,

00:39:06   but I do wonder if, like, right, wouldn't that make sense

00:39:08   that like when they're moving from the Dark Sky,

00:39:10   the Dark Sky got bought by Apple,

00:39:12   so they're building out the next generation API,

00:39:14   which is gonna be Apple Weather,

00:39:16   that they would at some point just sort of like

00:39:17   leave Dark Sky where it is

00:39:19   and update the Apple weather thing.

00:39:22   So that might be part of it.

00:39:23   Lauren and I were talking about this

00:39:24   'cause she was like, "No dark stuff going away."

00:39:27   And I get those precipitation alerts.

00:39:29   And I said, "Well, I get them in Apple weather."

00:39:32   So you can have precipitation alerts in Apple weather.

00:39:36   It's not the same.

00:39:37   If you want the same, you should use Carrot weather,

00:39:42   pay for Carrot weather.

00:39:44   And then as Brian Carrot was pointing out

00:39:48   on Twitter or Mastodon or somewhere,

00:39:50   there is a new thing, it was on Twitter.

00:39:53   So I'll just tell you about it now, Myke.

00:39:54   - Thank you.

00:39:55   - Brian Carrot, Brian Mueller,

00:39:58   but I call him Brian Carrot 'cause he makes carrot,

00:40:00   named it after himself, obviously.

00:40:01   They added a new layout in Carrot Weather called Inline

00:40:07   that basically is the dark sky layout.

00:40:09   - Oh, interesting.

00:40:11   - So if you want to use,

00:40:12   if you want an app that just looks like dark sky,

00:40:15   Carrot Weather can do that for you.

00:40:16   but the Apple weather app will do precipitation alerts.

00:40:19   So it's not necessarily a bad idea to get it right

00:40:24   and use it for that, but they may not be the same.

00:40:29   - I'm gonna use the Apple weather data source

00:40:32   in Carrot weather, that's my plan.

00:40:35   And I'm gonna, I like your theory

00:40:37   and I'm gonna choose to believe that,

00:40:39   that like the Apple weather is more reliable now.

00:40:43   The one thing I was thinking is like, I guess one of the things I can feel, hopefully feel

00:40:48   good that Apple weather is as close to correct as possible, which is they serve so many people

00:40:53   with that service with like the official weather app, they have to do a decent job or I would

00:40:59   be hearing about it kind of like maps, you know, like I was worried about the weather

00:41:03   app when they moved to their own service.

00:41:06   Like I was worried about an Apple maps situation.

00:41:10   Um, but that doesn't seem to have happened.

00:41:13   I don't feel like I've heard a lot of people being really upset about the

00:41:17   weather app in fact I feel like I've heard actually the opposite seem to

00:41:21   people seem to really like the i-16 weather app. I wanted to point out we'll

00:41:26   put a link in the show notes to an article on Slate mm-hmm called the

00:41:30   world's best terrible weather app that is perfectly named yes I hate the dark

00:41:35   sky app I'm I'm seeing I'm seeing people be surprised by what this article says

00:41:42   so I just, and I wasn't, but like, I want to state what it says, which is, how did Dark Sky work?

00:41:47   The answer is, Dark Sky looked at radar images and then tried to

00:41:53   intelligently plot, the radar images are like where the precipitation is,

00:41:57   intelligently plot where those would continue on to.

00:42:00   There, it was literally processing

00:42:04   the radar images in order to do kind of like, okay,

00:42:08   well, if this dot of rain is here now

00:42:10   and it's moving north-northwest,

00:42:12   then in the next frame it'll be here,

00:42:14   and in the next frame it'll be here.

00:42:16   Which on a very small scale actually works pretty well.

00:42:21   Which I disagree with this article that says,

00:42:23   oh, it's complete BS and it doesn't work at all.

00:42:26   I think in small scales, like that's how we use radar, right?

00:42:29   Is you look at the radar and you say,

00:42:31   oh, the rain's coming in and it's headed my way,

00:42:33   and now it's here and now it's gone.

00:42:34   - Dark Sky does a great job.

00:42:36   It does a great job, like, yeah.

00:42:37   So this article also quotes a lot of meteorologists

00:42:39   who are very cranky 'cause they're like,

00:42:40   "But we have models, you gotta use the models."

00:42:42   And the problem is your models don't say,

00:42:45   five minutes away, there's going to be rain, right?

00:42:50   And although dark sky is not always accurate,

00:42:53   I think that there's a bit of chauvinism here

00:42:56   where meteorologists are like,

00:42:59   these people aren't experts, trust us.

00:43:02   But the people who built dark sky

00:43:05   we're using radar the way people use radar,

00:43:08   which is to say, is that blob of rain

00:43:11   going to cross over where I am in the next hour?

00:43:14   Which to my understanding,

00:43:17   a fancy model of weather can't do,

00:43:22   or at least doesn't do,

00:43:24   because they're not updating every five minutes

00:43:27   with pinpoint locations of precipitation, right?

00:43:30   That's not what it's for.

00:43:31   It's a different kind of thing.

00:43:33   Anyway, I found that article fascinating

00:43:35   because the meteorologists hate dark sky.

00:43:38   And I, although this article, I feel like is extremely

00:43:42   against dark sky and misses some important points

00:43:46   about why it actually did make sense,

00:43:48   I think it's also fair to point out that yes,

00:43:51   dark sky's methodology could be shaky

00:43:54   because dark sky's methodology was based on analyzing

00:43:56   tracks of precipitation in radar.

00:44:00   And that doesn't always work, right?

00:44:02   Because there are certain, I'll tell you,

00:44:04   For California, and isn't this typical,

00:44:07   'cause everything works in California,

00:44:09   for California it worked pretty well

00:44:10   because we don't have thunderstorms

00:44:13   that pop out of nowhere.

00:44:15   We have waves of rain that just come in.

00:44:18   - It works great in London too, right?

00:44:20   Like it's worked fantastically for me in London.

00:44:23   You know, to the point where it would say

00:44:24   rain's stopping in five minutes and it would.

00:44:26   You know, it was perfect.

00:44:29   And so, yeah, now I'm moving to Apple Weather.

00:44:31   I do note now that I get a 10-day forecast

00:44:33   drive it at a seven day forecast, so that's nice.

00:44:36   - It's nice, that's good.

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00:46:47   Jason, you wrote a couple of prediction articles for Macworld, and I wanted to run through

00:46:57   what the categories and the products and what you think is going to happen for Apple in

00:47:02   2023.

00:47:04   Should we get started and look at the Mac?

00:47:06   Sure.

00:47:07   Now I need to remember what I predicted, but I'm sure I was right.

00:47:12   Okay.

00:47:14   Sure.

00:47:15   - Sure.

00:47:16   - So looking at the Mac,

00:47:18   you are expecting MacBook Pro updates

00:47:21   and Mac mini updates to get the M2 chips, right?

00:47:25   - Yeah, I mean, this is basically us taking, you know,

00:47:27   or me taking the rumor roundup that we do here

00:47:30   and trying to kind of like put it out there as, you know,

00:47:33   what are the details and what's gonna come through

00:47:35   and what's not gonna come through.

00:47:36   And I, you know, M2 beyond the base M2 processor,

00:47:41   this is the year for that, obviously.

00:47:43   And so I do think it'll be, you know,

00:47:45   the revision to the MacBook Pro that we've been expecting.

00:47:48   And I do think they're going to do the Mac mini revision as well,

00:47:51   where they're going to get that Intel Mac mini out of there at last. Yeah.

00:47:55   It's time.

00:47:57   So if we imagine all that stuff, that's the boring stuff.

00:48:00   Let's talk about the more exciting stuff. Okay.

00:48:03   So I'm going to give a rundown of the things that you've predicted, right?

00:48:06   So in the boring stuff, we'll include an update to the 24 inch iMac.

00:48:12   the exciting stuff is.

00:48:13   - Actually, I'm gonna just say that's risky, right?

00:48:17   Mark Gurman is skeptical about the 24-inch iMac

00:48:19   getting an update and keeps saying

00:48:20   that it's not gonna be updated until in M3,

00:48:22   which I don't believe, I just don't believe it.

00:48:24   I know that he's got-- - But M3 could still be

00:48:26   in 2023.

00:48:27   - It could, it could be.

00:48:31   I, yeah, I wonder.

00:48:33   It could be though. - But they could sit on that.

00:48:34   But do you think they will do it this year?

00:48:36   You think they will do it?

00:48:37   - I predicted that they will, yeah.

00:48:39   - Yeah.

00:48:40   So if we also, let's actually,

00:48:42   let's also lump in the Mac Pro in the boring part,

00:48:45   'cause like we kinda know about it and are expecting it,

00:48:48   and Apple have effectively told us it's coming.

00:48:51   There's a few things that you were pretty,

00:48:54   you were pretty firm on that you think are gonna happen.

00:48:57   iMac Pro, larger MacBook Air,

00:49:00   and an updated studio display with micro LED and ProMotion.

00:49:04   - Yeah. - That's pretty bold.

00:49:05   There's some pretty bold predictions right there.

00:49:08   - I wanna believe.

00:49:09   (laughing)

00:49:11   I think the Mac Pro is gonna happen.

00:49:12   I don't know what form it'll take, right?

00:49:13   I mean, it's gonna be, the rumors are,

00:49:16   it's not gonna have that quad chip.

00:49:19   It's gonna just have an M2 Max basically,

00:49:23   or M2 Ultra, M2 Ultra, right?

00:49:26   But that's it.

00:49:27   Display, yeah, I'm gonna take my shot there

00:49:31   because I've, you know, I spent the last five years

00:49:34   predicting a standalone display from Apple

00:49:35   and in year five, I got it right.

00:49:37   So what do I do with that?

00:49:40   Start predicting the next one, I guess.

00:49:42   But I just, I keep feeling like there is gonna be,

00:49:46   the Pro Display XDR is now based on kind of old tech

00:49:49   that's been surpassed in Apple's product line

00:49:51   by the MacBook Pro.

00:49:53   It feels like there's room for something

00:49:55   above the studio display

00:49:57   that is not the current Pro Display XDR.

00:50:00   There is some suggestion that this is being worked on.

00:50:02   It's unclear when it's gonna come out,

00:50:03   but I feel like the year that the MacBook Pro come,

00:50:05   or the Mac Pro comes out would not be a bad time

00:50:08   for them to refresh that studio

00:50:11   or refresh the Pro Display XDR

00:50:13   or replace it with something different.

00:50:16   So this is kind of a catchall of,

00:50:18   I'm not sure whether they're gonna replace

00:50:20   the Pro Display XDR or whether they're just gonna do

00:50:22   a fancier 27-inch display that's XDR quality,

00:50:27   but I feel like they're gonna do something.

00:50:30   - And do you imagine that this display

00:50:33   would be the display that would also be in an iMac Pro?

00:50:37   - Oh, if it's a 27-inch ProMotion fancy display, then yes.

00:50:42   - And so that might be a thing that they wait and do.

00:50:48   Do you think they would do this together?

00:50:51   Or do you think they would split that apart?

00:50:53   - It's possible,

00:50:54   and that wasn't officially part of my prediction, right?

00:50:56   But I feel like that having that as a differentiator

00:50:59   about a true iMac Pro has the super fancy screen,

00:51:03   I could also see them not doing that, right?

00:51:06   I could also see them using the equivalent of the,

00:51:09   the thing about the studio display is it's the old 27 inch,

00:51:12   it's iMac display, right?

00:51:14   So if they're gonna do a new iMac Pro,

00:51:16   why would they not have it be truly Pro

00:51:19   if they're gonna call it that especially,

00:51:21   and it's gonna be big and fancy?

00:51:24   Why would you not have the new display tech?

00:51:28   I don't know about the sequence there.

00:51:30   I'm not sure that it matters.

00:51:31   I don't think there's any reason,

00:51:33   if you've got a standalone display ready to go,

00:51:35   I'm not sure there's any reason to hold off

00:51:37   until the iMac Pro in order to launch it.

00:51:39   Like you could do one in front of the other

00:51:41   and I don't think it matters.

00:51:43   - I'm not sure if I'm as strong on iMac Pro now

00:51:48   as I was when the iMac came out.

00:51:50   I was like, as a product that they'll do.

00:51:52   The Mac Studio is the wrinkle

00:51:54   and it's not that I think that one replaces the other,

00:51:57   It's just how many Mac models do they want?

00:52:00   That's a lot of models.

00:52:04   - Yeah, I agree.

00:52:06   I just think it's very strange

00:52:07   that they sold a 27-inch iMac for years and years

00:52:09   and years and years, and now they don't.

00:52:11   - Yes, I agree with that.

00:52:12   - I think that they have to do that.

00:52:13   Now, maybe it's a 27-inch iMac and it's not an iMac Pro,

00:52:17   although again, in terms of modern Apple terminology,

00:52:21   calling it iMac Pro and making it more expensive

00:52:26   feels like more what modern Apple would do,

00:52:30   but who knows, right?

00:52:33   I mean, maybe they've decided that the best thing to do

00:52:34   is to use the existing screen technology

00:52:37   and make a larger iMac that's got an M2 Pro option

00:52:42   and it's just a bigger iMac or something like that, right?

00:52:44   And it's not that big a deal.

00:52:45   But if they decide, the real question is like,

00:52:47   if they're gonna do a bigger iMac,

00:52:49   how far up do they push that in terms of the cost

00:52:51   and in terms of the features?

00:52:53   But I feel like there's gotta be one.

00:52:55   And so I decided to put my stake in the ground

00:52:57   in these predictions and say,

00:52:58   that they will call it pro

00:53:00   and it will have the higher end processors.

00:53:03   Display wise, I think it's an open question, right?

00:53:05   'Cause that might add so much cost to the product

00:53:08   that it's not worth it for them.

00:53:10   At the same time, I could see them really arguing like,

00:53:13   if you wanna do pro work, pro photography work or whatever,

00:53:16   the iMac Pro has got your back

00:53:18   because it's doing HDR, et cetera, et cetera.

00:53:20   - And while we're talking about screen size changes

00:53:24   increases you you you feel pretty confident about this larger MacBook Air

00:53:29   yeah I mean Mark Gurman has reported that that is I believe he's reported as

00:53:33   forthcoming and Ming-Chi Kuo has reported that it's forthcoming feels

00:53:37   right to me that they'll the 15-inch MacBook Air like they've got the new

00:53:42   MacBook Air design which is really nice a larger one of that fills that gap

00:53:46   between the $2,000 MacBook Pros and the existing MacBook Airs for people who

00:53:53   want a bigger display, right?

00:53:54   Because to get a bigger display,

00:53:55   I'd have to pay $2,000 and get all this other stuff,

00:53:59   the ports, the processors, the HDR display,

00:54:02   all really nice, but not everybody really wants that.

00:54:05   If all you want is a little bigger screen,

00:54:09   you're buying a lot of other stuff.

00:54:10   And so having a 15 inch air,

00:54:13   not only does that make sense in terms of,

00:54:16   I mean, the reports say that it's gonna happen

00:54:18   and it makes sense to me.

00:54:19   I think that it's a good fit.

00:54:21   - But hey, Jason,

00:54:22   what if people just buy the MacBook Air

00:54:23   because it's the cheapest one?

00:54:25   - I know, right?

00:54:26   - You just spoke about this.

00:54:27   - Just let's just, we'll wait two years

00:54:30   and find out what they do.

00:54:32   Yes, I think that it's a question.

00:54:34   I think it's a really good question.

00:54:36   My bet is that laptop dynamics

00:54:39   are different from phone dynamics,

00:54:40   but it's a really good question, right?

00:54:42   Like how many of these assumptions we've made

00:54:44   about Apple strategy are going to be upended

00:54:46   by Apple meeting the market and realizing

00:54:49   that that strategy doesn't extend further

00:54:52   than they've already extended it.

00:54:54   So that's possible, it's possible.

00:54:56   The reports suggest they're gonna try it.

00:54:58   It is, I think, something worth watching

00:55:01   'cause maybe they do a 15-inch MacBook Air

00:55:03   and discover people don't want it.

00:55:06   Maybe they do discover that.

00:55:08   But I like the idea of having a bigger screen

00:55:10   that doesn't cost two grand.

00:55:12   - Speaking of 15-inch screens in new products,

00:55:15   let's jump over to the iPad.

00:55:17   You seem very, I think, wildly confident

00:55:22   that the iPad Pro will see no update this year.

00:55:26   There'll be significant, there'll be like,

00:55:28   no other significant updates for the iPad in general,

00:55:31   except for a 15 inch model that will either be called

00:55:35   the iPad Pro or the iPad Studio.

00:55:38   - Well, we should start by saying the iPad Air

00:55:39   is due for an update, so I'm sure there will be

00:55:41   an iPad Air update of some kind.

00:55:43   - It's not gonna be significant though, right?

00:55:45   If they do.

00:55:46   I can't imagine it being particularly significant.

00:55:48   No, I decided to go with this,

00:55:50   but again, there's no money at stake here, right?

00:55:52   I take no risks in making these predictions.

00:55:55   I just wanna be clear about that.

00:55:57   So my rationale here in picking this is first off,

00:56:01   there's nothing happening on the iPad otherwise,

00:56:03   which is really boring.

00:56:04   We saw what happened with the iPad Pro,

00:56:07   where it got an update that feels very much

00:56:08   like not the update Apple wanted to make,

00:56:11   but I don't think the chip cycle is going to work

00:56:13   or the product cycle is gonna work for them

00:56:15   to do another iMac Pro this fall.

00:56:18   I think it's gonna have to wait until next spring.

00:56:20   However, I'm reminded of when they did the initial iPad Pro

00:56:26   and it came in the 12.9 inch model only.

00:56:28   And it was out there in front.

00:56:30   And then later they did an 11 inch model,

00:56:33   well, actually they did a smaller model, 10.5,

00:56:37   and then later they updated it further.

00:56:40   - I think it may have started with 9.7 and then-

00:56:43   - Pardon, 9.7 and then, yeah. - 10.5?

00:56:44   Oh, no, that little one has grown, right?

00:56:47   So the precedent is they started with a big one.

00:56:50   And I thought like there's some rumbling

00:56:53   about them wanting to do a bigger iPad.

00:56:55   And I thought there is a scenario that kind of makes sense

00:56:59   where maybe even the design language

00:57:02   that they intended on being in the iPad Pro

00:57:05   for the M2 generation that seems to have not happened,

00:57:09   maybe it will be ready.

00:57:13   And the logical thing to do,

00:57:14   since it's not time to update the iPad Pros

00:57:17   that just came out,

00:57:19   but you could do a new model

00:57:21   that also uses that design language

00:57:23   that you could put out in the fall.

00:57:26   And it would lead the way

00:57:29   and then the other ones would come in the spring.

00:57:32   And so that was when I started thinking

00:57:34   that actually is a scenario that kind of might make sense

00:57:37   where you get something for the iPad.

00:57:39   And I like the idea of a big iPad,

00:57:41   maybe with a third generation Apple Pencil.

00:57:43   And so a bunch of new iPad tech,

00:57:46   and the first time we see it,

00:57:48   it's in this iPad with, and with new accessories, right?

00:57:51   And it's beyond the pencil.

00:57:53   And it's something we haven't seen before.

00:57:55   And then in the spring,

00:57:59   the rest of the iPad Pro line catches up.

00:58:01   I like that scenario.

00:58:03   So since there are no penalties for these predictions

00:58:07   and there's no money riding on it,

00:58:08   I decided I was gonna go with it.

00:58:10   And I am intrigued. Do you think that this is a...

00:58:14   So let's say Pro Studio, whatever. If it's the studio,

00:58:20   do you think that it is like positioned above the iPad Pro?

00:58:24   Like where is this sitting in line? Especially as you say,

00:58:27   you think it's going to get things that no other iPad has right now.

00:58:32   So where does that sit though? Like above?

00:58:35   Above.

00:58:37   And do you think it would always be above?

00:58:39   - I don't know.

00:58:41   I mean, what I hedge on is whether they call this

00:58:43   Pro or Studio.

00:58:45   - Well, either way, right, I guess it could sit above.

00:58:48   - Unless they're getting rid of the iPad Air, right?

00:58:50   I feel like either way, it's bigger than the iPad Pro

00:58:54   with more features.

00:58:56   So it's going to be more expensive

00:58:58   than the 12.9 inch iPad Pro, yes.

00:59:00   - I could imagine this product existing.

00:59:05   I'm not sure that 2023 is it.

00:59:09   but I would be very excited to see it.

00:59:13   - Well, as I just explained,

00:59:15   I think part of my motivation here

00:59:16   is that there's not a lot of iPad story happening.

00:59:19   And this would be a really interesting iPad story

00:59:22   without having to change the timing

00:59:25   of the rest of the product line

00:59:26   is to basically throw what will ultimately be

00:59:29   the next generation of design language

00:59:31   and features and accessories.

00:59:33   This one model comes out in late 23

00:59:37   ahead of the rest of the line kind of picking it up

00:59:42   starting in 24.

00:59:43   So that was the thought process.

00:59:45   If it felt like there was a normal iPad process

00:59:48   going on this year,

00:59:50   I might not have made this wild prediction,

00:59:52   but it feels real quiet, right?

00:59:55   Like almost too quiet.

00:59:57   - Here's what I'll say about iPadOS, Apple and iPadOS.

01:00:02   I think iPad Studio is maybe just a better brand

01:00:06   for the more expensive iPad than iPad Pro,

01:00:10   because I think Apple has decided or not decided

01:00:15   to really make iPad like Pro

01:00:18   in the ways that Pro users want it to be, right?

01:00:22   We spoke about this for years,

01:00:24   but what the iPad's really good at is creating stuff,

01:00:28   especially art, right?

01:00:29   Visual things.

01:00:31   Maybe Studio is just a better brand

01:00:33   for the more expensive iPad than Pro is.

01:00:36   I mean, maybe, but I don't know if I entirely agree.

01:00:40   I mean, I think what the iPad is great at is changing what it is based on how you use

01:00:45   it.

01:00:46   I'm not, I'm also not ready to give up on the idea that Apple needs to bring its pro

01:00:50   apps to the iPad.

01:00:52   That I do think that that needs to happen.

01:00:54   But it's true.

01:00:55   This is a self-inflicted wound.

01:00:56   If they had called it iPad studio all along…

01:00:58   But those pro apps are creative apps, right?

01:01:01   They're creative apps, so it would fit just as nicely.

01:01:05   Sure.

01:01:06   Video editing is a very different thing than drawing,

01:01:10   but both could benefit from a larger screen.

01:01:12   Also, you throw in the fact

01:01:13   that they've got external display support now,

01:01:15   which is kind of an interesting quirk.

01:01:18   I wonder if they might do a new keyboard trackpad case thing

01:01:22   that was, again, would point the way to the future

01:01:27   of that on the other models.

01:01:28   I don't know.

01:01:29   I mean, what Apple thinks of the iPad

01:01:31   is an interesting question.

01:01:33   And whether those pro apps,

01:01:35   I didn't predict that the pro apps would come, I think, right?

01:01:37   Like that, I mean, 'cause--

01:01:39   - Gotta give it up at some point.

01:01:40   - Who would do that, yeah.

01:01:42   - Here's one that genuinely surprised me.

01:01:44   You feel--

01:01:46   - Well, it wouldn't be a fun column

01:01:47   if I didn't surprise people, right?

01:01:48   - That's a good point, that's a good point.

01:01:50   - Gotta entertain people.

01:01:51   - You expect that the iPhone 15

01:01:54   will look a lot like the iPhone 14,

01:01:56   but will get the Dynamic Island.

01:01:58   You seem very confident on that.

01:02:00   - Yep, yep, I am not a believer in the theory

01:02:03   that the Dynamic Island is gonna be withheld

01:02:04   for a long time.

01:02:06   I'm a believer that the Dynamic Island

01:02:07   is too good a feature to keep away

01:02:09   from half of the iPhone product line.

01:02:11   - I can see it.

01:02:13   Like, I feel like I agree with you that it's gonna happen.

01:02:16   All the tech is there, right?

01:02:17   They use all the displays.

01:02:18   Like, in theory, you could do it.

01:02:20   It would just, whilst I would completely understand it,

01:02:24   I think it may also surprise me,

01:02:25   it's just the next year that they do it,

01:02:27   but, you know, maybe they just go for it, right?

01:02:31   - I think, I mean, this isn't high-tech stuff.

01:02:33   It is literally just a different cutout for the sensors.

01:02:37   - Yep.

01:02:39   - And I think Dynamic Island is too central.

01:02:41   Here's the thing, if Apple likes the Dynamic Island,

01:02:44   they need to make the effort to get it everywhere, right?

01:02:47   How you don't popularize an OS feature

01:02:51   is by withholding it from a large portion

01:02:53   of your product line.

01:02:54   What you want is you want that feature everywhere

01:02:57   so that all software supports it

01:02:58   and it becomes a key differentiator in your platform.

01:03:01   And you don't do that by withholding it from the iPhone 15

01:03:05   and keeping it only on the Pro.

01:03:07   So, and the cost is nothing essentially,

01:03:10   'cause it's just changing your existing cutout.

01:03:13   And the benefit is that everybody can rely

01:03:18   on there being a dynamic island.

01:03:20   And yeah, what you're losing is the people

01:03:21   who only go to the Pro because of the dynamic island,

01:03:26   but there are plenty of other reasons to go to the Pro.

01:03:29   Dynamic island does not need to be a differentiator in the long run. So I think I think they'll end that differentiation

01:03:34   immediately

01:03:36   But there could be a cost this time

01:03:38   So we'll get to the iPhone 15 ultra in a moment away you think that might go but let's imagine

01:03:43   You know we can just say for the moment that's going to be the exciting one, right? Yeah, and if the iPhone

01:03:50   15 gets the dynamic island you've mentioned you don't think much would happen to the iPhone 15 Pro

01:03:55   could that not be a risk to the iPhone 15 Pro

01:03:59   if that doesn't actually get much of a big jump

01:04:01   and then the ultra's really exciting,

01:04:03   the iPhone 15 gets the dynamic island,

01:04:06   does that not kind of make the iPhone 15 Pro

01:04:10   less attractive, which would be a risk

01:04:12   because it sells really well?

01:04:15   - I don't think so.

01:04:16   I think only marginally.

01:04:17   Like, I think the appeal of the Pro

01:04:20   is probably in the materials and it's in the cameras.

01:04:25   I don't think it's in the dynamic island.

01:04:26   I'm not, in the long run, I am not a believer

01:04:30   that there are gonna be large numbers of people

01:04:32   who would otherwise have bought a Pro

01:04:34   and the only reason, or otherwise would have bought

01:04:36   a non-Pro, but only reason they went to the Pro

01:04:38   is because of the dynamic island.

01:04:40   I don't think there's enough of them to offset

01:04:44   the desire that Apple should have to get the dynamic island

01:04:47   everywhere in iOS as soon as it can, because it's cool.

01:04:50   - What is your stake in the ground

01:04:52   for the features of the iPhone 15 Ultra?

01:04:56   - I'm gonna say something similar

01:04:59   to my wild iPad studio theory, which is,

01:05:02   I feel like the 15 Pro is going to stay looking similar

01:05:07   and not get the complete revamp

01:05:08   because they're gonna put all their effort into the Ultra,

01:05:10   very much the story of the Apple Watch.

01:05:13   So there'll be an iPhone 15 Ultra, it'll look different.

01:05:16   It'll have a new camera system.

01:05:18   It'll be like, kind of like the iPhone 10, right?

01:05:21   where it's like, this is not your old iPhone.

01:05:24   We're doing very different things here.

01:05:26   And this is the first place to get it.

01:05:28   Also has the advantage of like the rumors about them doing

01:05:31   the periscope camera and all of that.

01:05:33   The idea there is you might start that in a larger phone

01:05:37   because you need the space to do that sort of thing.

01:05:40   So yeah, that's the little narrative

01:05:42   that I've woven for myself is that the iPhone 15

01:05:47   and 15 Pro will progress along,

01:05:49   but the real big story will be the Ultra,

01:05:54   which will look different and have a bunch of features

01:05:57   that no other iPhone has.

01:05:58   - Do you think they might go to titanium?

01:06:02   - Everything is on the table, right?

01:06:04   - Yeah.

01:06:05   - There are nice things about titanium,

01:06:06   especially that it's light, right?

01:06:09   And the stainless is so heavy on those iPhone Pros.

01:06:12   They're so heavy.

01:06:14   So sure, that's a possibility.

01:06:17   - I guess it depends on if they can color it.

01:06:19   I think that would be an important element, right?

01:06:22   I think it would be difficult if it only came in one color.

01:06:26   Do you think?

01:06:27   - Remember, if the Ultra, well, I mean, they could color,

01:06:30   they could color the glass though.

01:06:32   - Yeah.

01:06:33   - And not the metal, right?

01:06:36   And keep in mind, this Ultra,

01:06:39   the Pro already is almost colorless.

01:06:41   So the Ultra could be completely colorless.

01:06:43   Just a silver black phone.

01:06:45   The iPhone 10, right, was just one color, I think.

01:06:49   It was all silver.

01:06:50   They made that work.

01:06:53   - Yeah, so this is the question,

01:06:55   but I'm kind of liking the idea that they're gonna,

01:06:59   again, they'll change the colors.

01:07:01   They might change the look a little bit

01:07:03   of the 15 and the 15 Pro.

01:07:05   They could always change the metal finish

01:07:07   and all of that to make them look a little bit different.

01:07:10   But I think that my theory here is that what if the Ultra

01:07:14   is where they put their resources this time.

01:07:17   And as with my big iPad theory,

01:07:20   the rest of the line catches up later.

01:07:22   - Emmer is correct.

01:07:23   I mean, the Discord, the iPhone 10

01:07:25   had two different colors for the rails.

01:07:27   - Right, but there's two different titanium shades on--

01:07:32   - The Apple watches. - Apple watch.

01:07:33   So you could do something like that.

01:07:36   It's very much that we offer two color choices.

01:07:38   There's dark gray and black.

01:07:40   Like, thanks Apple.

01:07:41   That's exactly what we expected from you.

01:07:44   This is the thing I'm most excited for right now for this year is the iPhone 15 Ultra,

01:07:49   what that might be.

01:07:51   I think it could be really exciting, right?

01:07:53   It has a new design, new designs are always fun, and this new potential new camera system

01:07:58   which could be leaps and bounds different.

01:08:02   I'm excited about what they might do with that product.

01:08:07   I think that's maybe the product that feels the most tangible to me and so I'm pretty

01:08:11   excited about it.

01:08:13   of the intangible ones I think we'll get to in a little bit but the iPhone 15 Ultra I'm

01:08:19   really keen to see what that might end up looking like. In wearables you are speaking

01:08:26   straight to my heart and predicting a completely redesigned AirPods Max.

01:08:31   Yep it's time right like that products been out there for a while but 1.0 product was

01:08:37   is disappointing in a bunch of ways

01:08:39   and needs to be revised, right?

01:08:42   It needs a better case.

01:08:44   It needs, you know, like there are some design aspects of it

01:08:47   that need to be better.

01:08:48   It's time to take it, what they've learned

01:08:50   from the first couple of years of that product

01:08:53   and revise it to be a little bit better fit.

01:08:56   And it may even be to be less expensive to make,

01:09:00   even regardless of what they do with the price,

01:09:02   'cause they will have learned a lot,

01:09:03   I assume over the last couple of years

01:09:05   about what AirPods Max should be,

01:09:07   but it feels like it's time, right,

01:09:09   for a new version of that?

01:09:10   - Well, I mean, I agree, I want it.

01:09:12   I think the fundamentals of the product is good,

01:09:14   it sounds great, the noise cancellation is great,

01:09:16   like it's good, but they messed it up in a couple of ways.

01:09:20   Too heavy, too expensive, and not portable enough.

01:09:25   You know, the case is terrible,

01:09:27   the fact you can't collapse it.

01:09:29   I think they should look to,

01:09:32   and I hope they will fix those three issues,

01:09:34   and they will have, I think, a much bigger success on their hands with an AirPods Max

01:09:40   2.

01:09:41   And I really hope that this is something that they're working on because I like this product

01:09:45   in their lineup.

01:09:47   I don't use my AirPods Max a lot, but when I do use them, I really want that product

01:09:53   to do the best it can do, like traveling and stuff like that.

01:09:56   I want the best it can be, and that is the best that AirPods can be for me in those environments.

01:10:02   Although I will say AirPods Pro 2 is unbelievable how good the noise cancellation is right as

01:10:07   we mentioned in the Upgrades episode.

01:10:10   You know I tested that out on the last plane trip that I took and was really surprised

01:10:15   at comparatively how well they do.

01:10:18   But I would love to see them take everything they've learned on AirPods Pro 2 and apply

01:10:23   that to AirPods Max 2 plus difference in the hardware.

01:10:29   predict the action button is gonna come to the regular Apple Watch? Well what's

01:10:34   left to do with the Apple Watch right? Like the Apple Watch is largely a...

01:10:37   Finally a redesigned Jason that's what they can do. I don't think I mean I'm not gonna

01:10:42   predict it I feel like they're gonna ride this a little longer I'm not gonna

01:10:47   predict that thing it'll happen eventually and I'll be surprised by it

01:10:50   when it happens because I feel like they're gonna keep riding this horse I

01:10:53   think another thing they could do is I mean maybe it'll be tweaked design wise

01:10:58   I'm gonna repeat what I've been saying all along,

01:11:02   which is the high-end products lead the way

01:11:05   in a lot of cases for the rest of the line.

01:11:07   And so in this case, again, look to the Apple Watch Ultra

01:11:11   and say, "Oh, it's got that action button."

01:11:13   We could add an action button to the existing Apple Watch.

01:11:16   We could maybe change the look of it

01:11:18   and have it have a little bit more ultra-like look

01:11:22   without it really being a radical reinvention

01:11:26   of the Apple Watch.

01:11:27   that's my guess is that the regular Apple watch will pick up some features

01:11:31   from the ultra you didn't mention anything about the ultra itself do you

01:11:36   think they'll update the ultra this year if they do it won't be interesting huh

01:11:43   yeah yep that's my prediction and quote some quote but like I something new in

01:11:52   the home something give me something anything a device show me a sign of life

01:11:56   - Right, because I don't know which one,

01:11:57   like there was a whole bunch of different rumors out there

01:11:59   of things that they've been experimenting with.

01:12:02   Will any of them come to fruition?

01:12:03   But I decided like, there's gotta be something, right?

01:12:06   I'm willing to bet, at least for now,

01:12:09   that one of the holdups in Apple's home strategy

01:12:11   is that they need to get into the thread world.

01:12:14   That once the thread thing is working,

01:12:16   they can just release the hounds, right?

01:12:19   They can open the flood gates and out pour all the Apple,

01:12:22   Like one, just one HomePod with a screen for FaceTime

01:12:27   or a soundbar, Apple TV, HomePod combo or something, right?

01:12:34   Like something to show us that you care about the home

01:12:39   in some way, that's all I'm really asking.

01:12:42   - And I'd mentioned an intangible thing,

01:12:45   which is the headset, right?

01:12:48   It's like we have an idea of what it might be,

01:12:51   we pretty much feel like we know it's coming this year,

01:12:55   it feels very confident,

01:12:56   but it's like the Apple Watch,

01:12:59   and when the Apple Watch is introduced,

01:13:02   there are a lot of things this product could be,

01:13:05   what mix do they end up landing on, right?

01:13:10   When they release it.

01:13:11   - And this seems like a real easy prediction,

01:13:13   except that I will say,

01:13:15   after I wrote this article a couple weeks later,

01:13:18   I saw a prediction piece that said

01:13:20   Apple won't release the headset this year.

01:13:22   And I like, I get the argument, I forget who made it,

01:13:27   but I forget whoever it was, the argument was,

01:13:32   it sure feels like a developer release.

01:13:34   It sure feels overpriced and overpowered.

01:13:37   Maybe where they will end up is shipping something

01:13:40   as a developer preview, not,

01:13:42   it doesn't sound like Apple to sell that product

01:13:44   to mainstream consumers.

01:13:46   And we've been saying that all along, right?

01:13:48   And yet it seems like that's their intent,

01:13:51   is to sell a 2000 plus dollar headset

01:13:54   that is the best you could possibly buy,

01:13:57   but not something that a lot of regular people

01:13:59   are gonna buy.

01:14:00   And yet somehow with that very expensive product,

01:14:02   evangelize developers to devote time to develop apps

01:14:06   for a thing that is probably not gonna sell that well,

01:14:08   because it's so expensive.

01:14:10   It doesn't really make sense.

01:14:11   And yet all the indications are that they are doing that.

01:14:17   So my prediction is that I think they are,

01:14:20   although I think it's possible that this will change,

01:14:23   my prediction is that they will ship it,

01:14:26   but what they're gonna do is they're going to announce it

01:14:29   in the spring, they're going to evangelize its development

01:14:32   at WWDC and possibly give developers some access

01:14:37   to something that they can develop on.

01:14:39   It will ship later in the summer.

01:14:42   And my other prediction that's just out of the blue,

01:14:45   but I'm going to throw it in there,

01:14:47   which is I think they're gonna get it under 2000,

01:14:50   despite all the reports that it's gonna be more than $2,000.

01:14:53   I think the solution to the,

01:14:55   how do they ship this product when it's too expensive

01:14:58   and nobody will buy it?

01:15:00   I gotta be honest, I think the solution is gonna be

01:15:03   that they're gonna eat it.

01:15:05   They're gonna eat the margins.

01:15:06   - They should.

01:15:07   They should, if they care about it.

01:15:09   - That's right, and they think this is a long-term play

01:15:11   for them, they're gonna have to forego

01:15:13   their traditional profit margins

01:15:16   in order to hit that price point

01:15:17   and they're not gonna like it,

01:15:18   but I think that may be their only way out here.

01:15:20   Unless they really do pull a bunch of features off of it

01:15:24   and we get those reports over the next few months

01:15:26   that they've like, they've de-contented this thing down

01:15:29   to a lower price.

01:15:30   - Such a bad idea.

01:15:32   Like they gotta eat it.

01:15:33   They gotta do what the games consoles do.

01:15:36   You gotta just eat it and you'll make the money later.

01:15:40   - You're gonna make a great product.

01:15:42   You wanna evangelize developers.

01:15:44   You believe this is your future, you know what you do.

01:15:47   I'm not even saying to sell it at a loss,

01:15:50   but I'm saying sell it at very little profit

01:15:53   in order to get that price to somewhere

01:15:54   where you think that it's actually gonna sell.

01:15:56   Because step one here is not reap enormous profits

01:15:59   from incredibly profitable high margin device, right?

01:16:04   Step one is sell a lot of them.

01:16:06   That's the truth of it, sell a lot of them.

01:16:08   Doesn't have to be a $300 headset, I'm not saying that,

01:16:11   but I'm saying if you can sell it for 2,500

01:16:14   and make a very comfortable margin,

01:16:16   or you can sell it for 1800

01:16:17   and make almost nothing on the hardware,

01:16:21   I think the move is to make almost nothing on the hardware

01:16:23   because the goal here is long-term, not short-term.

01:16:26   And you need developers.

01:16:28   The piece that is so important here is

01:16:32   this is gonna take developer support.

01:16:35   It really is.

01:16:36   And developers, especially given how Apple has treated

01:16:39   its developers the last few years,

01:16:42   I would say developers aren't gonna invest a lot of time

01:16:45   into your platform, your brand new,

01:16:48   apparently very important strategically platform,

01:16:51   if they're developing it for an audience of no one, right?

01:16:55   You've got to give them an audience.

01:16:57   And saying, invest now and in two or three years, right?

01:17:02   You'll start making money on our platform.

01:17:04   It's not gonna work.

01:17:05   It's not gonna work.

01:17:06   It'll work for some like people who are really hardcore

01:17:10   Apple indie developers and they just love

01:17:12   doing stuff for Apple, okay, but like you need to build this platform you really

01:17:16   need people to rush into it and want to support it and the only way you can

01:17:20   really do that is by selling units. You got to sell units.

01:17:24   I'm really hoping that this product has an almost original iPad like price

01:17:33   surprise. Remember like everyone was like it's gonna cost over a thousand dollars

01:17:38   there's just no way and then bang 500 and it was like whoa you know that I

01:17:43   really hope that they find some way to make that work because that would be

01:17:48   cool and then thinking about this column that's essentially what I where I came

01:17:52   to is I don't see how this works based on what we've read in the reports and so

01:17:59   that makes me feel like they're that that that pricing can't stand right that

01:18:05   That's the piece here where it's like, yeah, but how do you come out with a $2,000, $2,500 thing?

01:18:11   And pricing, like, people are reporting the pricing, but it's like, those are people in

01:18:16   the supply chain, those are people, like, those are sources inside Apple, but like,

01:18:20   as we've said many times here, pricing and marketing is the most changeable of anything,

01:18:26   right? All it takes is Tim Cook saying, "What does it cost to make one of these?

01:18:32   let's price it at 1,500.

01:18:34   But sir, it costs 1,400 to make it.

01:18:36   It's like, yeah, but we gotta do it.

01:18:39   We gotta do it, 'cause we gotta look

01:18:40   at the competition out there.

01:18:41   I think something, I saw a story the other week

01:18:45   about how many more meta quests were sold

01:18:50   this Christmas season, which would be the third

01:18:52   Christmas season for the meta quest, two,

01:18:55   which is remarkable on one level, right?

01:18:58   Because it's like, that's an old product.

01:19:00   But on another level, it's still a really

01:19:03   well-priced product.

01:19:05   And I keep looking at it, you know, I have one,

01:19:09   and I like it.

01:19:10   And I keep looking at it and thinking,

01:19:12   you know, the advantage the MetaQuest has

01:19:14   is that they've sold a bunch of them.

01:19:16   Like, you can actually write software for the MetaQuest

01:19:20   and feel like it's successful.

01:19:23   - Yeah, you can have a success with it, yeah.

01:19:25   - And you gotta, like, you can't,

01:19:28   you can't build a superior product

01:19:30   that nobody writes software for, right?

01:19:31   There are so many examples of that throughout history.

01:19:34   So that's what I kept coming back to in my column

01:19:38   as I was writing it is,

01:19:39   and you and I have talked about it a bunch here

01:19:41   and I kept, my brain keeps processing like,

01:19:44   what's the story here?

01:19:45   The best I can come up with is that

01:19:47   they're gonna have to cave on price

01:19:48   and they're gonna have to take the hit

01:19:50   because this thing can't cost $2,500

01:19:52   'cause they're not gonna sell any of them.

01:19:54   And the easiest thing for them to do, painful but easy,

01:19:58   is just sell it for a lot less

01:20:01   and try to kickstart this market.

01:20:03   It's either that or you call it a developer preview

01:20:07   and you only ship it to developers

01:20:09   and say the real one is coming in 2024.

01:20:13   And that would be, I think, a real declaration of failure,

01:20:17   but it's a fallback.

01:20:18   I think the easier thing to do is to just take the hit

01:20:21   on the hardware in order to build your platform.

01:20:25   - One of the worst things that could happen to the headset

01:20:27   is it's just like a bunch of ports of Quest games.

01:20:31   Like that's it.

01:20:31   - Yeah, on an incredibly expensive thing.

01:20:34   And a lackluster reception from the developer community.

01:20:38   'Cause keep in mind, Apple's success in this last decade plus

01:20:42   has been, you know, one of the ways

01:20:46   that it's been successful is everybody wants to be

01:20:49   on the iPhone, especially, right?

01:20:51   everybody wants to be on that platform.

01:20:53   And that's helped make that platform a success.

01:20:56   And the danger is that Apple thinks that,

01:20:58   "No, no, no, no, people, we make it a success

01:21:01   and then they make money on the platform,

01:21:03   but that's not how it works.

01:21:04   You gotta have apps,

01:21:05   you gotta have software on the platform."

01:21:07   And the way you get developers to develop for your platform

01:21:10   is that people are there to buy their software.

01:21:11   So here we are.

01:21:14   We'll see what happens.

01:21:15   I mean, the good news is we can just check back in a year

01:21:18   and see how we did.

01:21:19   No matter how well you/I have done in this conversation today,

01:21:26   I think 2023 is going to be a year packed full of interesting stuff from Apple.

01:21:31   - I hope so. - I'm pretty excited about it.

01:21:32   - I hope so. - Just because there's so much possibility.

01:21:34   If they do 50% of it, it will be a big year.

01:21:38   Do you know I saw a stat, just before we move on real quick,

01:21:40   that I think I saw some Mac rumors today.

01:21:44   This past quarter is the first time in 20 years

01:21:47   and Apple haven't released a Mac,

01:21:49   like in this time period,

01:21:52   like in the fourth quarter of the year.

01:21:54   Right, isn't that wild?

01:21:57   - Interesting.

01:21:58   - 'Cause this is the time, right?

01:22:00   You would either do it for the holidays

01:22:01   or for back to school or whatever, and they didn't do it.

01:22:04   - Like I said, I feel like we've definitely gotten

01:22:07   to the point where pandemic-related

01:22:10   and supply chain-related issues have shoved

01:22:13   the Mac, whole Mac product line back by three, six,

01:22:18   nine months, something like that, for sure.

01:22:21   - Hopefully we're gonna get some of that backlog

01:22:25   coming out of it.

01:22:26   - Bring it on, bring on 2023, clear the backlog,

01:22:30   get us new stuff to talk about.

01:22:32   - This episode is brought to you by our friends

01:22:37   over at Fitbud.

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01:24:10   Strava Fitbit and Apple Health.

01:24:12   I love Fitbod, it is fantastic.

01:24:15   What it does with the videos is the thing that I like the most.

01:24:19   If I want to try and learn an exercise, if I try and read it I can't conceive of it,

01:24:22   I need to see somebody doing it.

01:24:24   So videos are great but videos from multiple angles is even better.

01:24:27   It's like "oh how are they moving their arm, I can't see it" you can see all of that with

01:24:31   Fitbod, it's fantastic.

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01:25:01   thanks to FitBard for their support of this show and Relay FM.

01:25:07   Let's move on to some Ask Upgrade questions.

01:25:10   The lasers still work!

01:25:12   They sure do.

01:25:13   They've dusted them off for the new year.

01:25:15   First comes from Shwert who asks "It's getting harder and harder to manage Mac apps.

01:25:20   Some come from the App Store, some come directly from developer websites, some are available

01:25:25   in both places.

01:25:27   How do you keep track of where you've got your apps so you don't confuse updates and

01:25:30   and licensed keys and all that kind of stuff.

01:25:33   - I, with all due respect to Swerd,

01:25:35   I don't agree with the premise of this question.

01:25:39   - Tell me about it.

01:25:40   - It's harder and harder to manage Mac apps.

01:25:42   I just don't see it.

01:25:45   I just don't see it.

01:25:47   The App Store has been around for a while now

01:25:49   and it does its app updates in its way.

01:25:53   And every other app I use has some sort of built-in

01:25:56   self-updating system, Sparkle or something else like it,

01:26:00   where it tells me if there's an update

01:26:02   and then I install it.

01:26:04   So I don't have any confusion about updates.

01:26:09   How do I keep track of where I get apps?

01:26:12   Like I don't understand that.

01:26:16   The apps are like, in terms of updates,

01:26:20   it'll tell me and otherwise I don't care.

01:26:22   License keys, I try to save license keys in 1Password,

01:26:27   but the truth is most of my license keys are in my Gmail.

01:26:30   and I search for them. But I just don't, I don't know, maybe this is me but I like,

01:26:36   I don't have, I don't get confused about my Mac apps. Like I just, I don't, I just don't.

01:26:43   Yeah.

01:26:45   What I'll say that I'll agree with Schwab is that the fact that it is separated is less than ideal.

01:26:51   Like I wished that everything was all in one place but everything could be all in that one place, right?

01:26:57   Like I would like as a user all apps to be in the App Store,

01:27:01   but that it would work for everyone that they are.

01:27:04   - I would go so far as to say,

01:27:05   I wish Apple would make an updates API

01:27:07   that would allow any app to register its updates

01:27:10   and have them display in the app updates list

01:27:15   instead of in each individual app.

01:27:17   That would be kind of fun, right?

01:27:19   But instead it's used as an App Store differentiator.

01:27:22   I think what Schwert is coming from here

01:27:23   is that, Schwert seems to be somebody

01:27:25   who has bought an app from one source,

01:27:27   but it's in both places and that that can be confusing.

01:27:30   And I agree that that can be confusing.

01:27:32   I generally, if something's available in the Mac App Store

01:27:37   and outside the Mac App Store,

01:27:38   I generally buy it outside of the Mac App Store.

01:27:41   That's generally my policy.

01:27:42   So I'm very rarely in a situation

01:27:44   where I'm thinking to myself,

01:27:46   "Oh, where did I get this?

01:27:47   Where did I not?"

01:27:48   I am a little more confused by Setapp,

01:27:50   former sometimes sponsor of this podcast,

01:27:54   which has its own sort of like system.

01:27:57   And so sometimes it'll be like, do I own this?

01:28:00   Or is this in set app?

01:28:01   That does happen from time to time.

01:28:03   But again, how do I keep track of it?

01:28:06   I look at the app and say,

01:28:07   is there a check for updates here or is it there?

01:28:10   That's it.

01:28:11   Otherwise I don't keep track, I guess is my real answer is.

01:28:14   I don't, I think that it's generally apparent

01:28:18   and I can search either purchased items in the app store

01:28:21   or in my Gmail or in my licenses in 1Password

01:28:25   to find out if I need to do something.

01:28:27   But generally it's just not an issue

01:28:30   that's required a solution.

01:28:31   Andrew asks, "Do you think advanced data protection

01:28:35   could make restoring a backup more reliable?

01:28:38   In other words, could you imagine more apps

01:28:40   would be able to retain their login state

01:28:42   when transferring an old phone to a new one?"

01:28:45   Would be nice.

01:28:46   I think what's happening here is that Apple

01:28:49   allows developers to set a flag about what gets backed up.

01:28:53   And I believe these are app developers saying,

01:28:56   "I don't wanna back that information up."

01:28:58   And that's why you have to do reentering later.

01:28:59   I believe that's what it is.

01:29:01   And it may have to do with their own security

01:29:03   or the fact that it's changing

01:29:05   to a different piece of hardware

01:29:06   and they don't wanna have the authentication move with that.

01:29:08   It needs to have a new authentication.

01:29:10   So what I would say is,

01:29:11   I don't know if this will make much of a difference.

01:29:13   I wish that Apple would do a better job

01:29:16   of perhaps evangelizing with developers

01:29:19   or coming up with a system developers can use

01:29:21   to make this easier.

01:29:23   What I really like is for them to take advantage

01:29:26   of something like maybe pass keys to make it

01:29:29   so that I can just biometrically authenticate

01:29:33   and I can use that.

01:29:34   But something here, I agree,

01:29:36   but I don't know if advanced data protection

01:29:38   is gonna make much of a difference.

01:29:41   - Gavin asks, this is for me really,

01:29:43   how was the process of dealing

01:29:44   with the upgrade submissions this year?

01:29:45   you mentioned it was painful in the past as your process changed.

01:29:48   I didn't change my process at all.

01:29:51   So the way you write, basically the upgradients would vote,

01:29:54   they put the information into a Google form, but for all but one question,

01:29:59   they're just open text fields that people can write into.

01:30:02   So people write things in varying ways with maybe it's one thing,

01:30:07   but they say it like, you know, it's set in like four different ways.

01:30:10   Like for example, Spiderman, some people would write Spiderman,

01:30:13   some people write Spider-man,

01:30:14   and some people might write "No Way Home" or whatever.

01:30:17   And so it requires, for me with the way that I do it,

01:30:21   it's a little bit manual, it was quite a lot manual,

01:30:24   which you have to kind of scroll through things

01:30:27   and change the names of stuff.

01:30:29   Basically, I've gotten better at this process

01:30:33   because I have recently done this for a quiz on Connected,

01:30:36   it's the same process.

01:30:37   So it was more fresh in my mind

01:30:39   and I'd kind of internalized the way to do it

01:30:42   my little shortcuts of how to make it quicker for me,

01:30:44   using clipboard managers and stuff like that to like,

01:30:48   yeah, so it was, it's laborsome,

01:30:51   but this year was the fastest I'd ever done it.

01:30:53   I did it in a day where usually it takes multiple days.

01:30:56   - For me, you're doing the connected quiz,

01:30:58   which is very similar to the Family Feud stuff

01:31:01   that I've done, and it's the same process,

01:31:03   and I have also gotten much better at it.

01:31:05   I use BB Edit for that a lot because I can sort lines,

01:31:08   and I can also like clip lines containing,

01:31:10   but sort lines does a lot of it,

01:31:11   'cause you'll get a lot of things

01:31:13   that are spelled differently,

01:31:14   but there's still a block of 84 of them

01:31:16   that are all the same, essentially.

01:31:18   And so I'm able to do that.

01:31:20   So I use BB Edit for a lot of that,

01:31:22   but it does come better with practice.

01:31:25   And I was thinking about how,

01:31:26   since you'd done the Connected Quiz,

01:31:27   this was gonna be easier for you this year.

01:31:29   So I'm glad it works.

01:31:30   - Yeah, 'cause I had just done one the week before,

01:31:32   so I was ready to go, which ended up being great for me,

01:31:36   'cause I did all the Upgrading Sing in a day,

01:31:38   and I thought it was gonna take me much longer,

01:31:40   I was preparing my week for like, "Uh oh, here we go."

01:31:43   Because we recorded it a little bit in advance,

01:31:45   but no, it ended up working out just right.

01:31:47   And Max asks, "How often do you remember

01:31:51   that one time Eddie Q said, 'I love the new photos.

01:31:54   I can't wait to do it.'"

01:31:56   (laughing)

01:31:57   So this was from WWDC,

01:32:01   20,

01:32:03   which one is it, 2016.

01:32:05   And Eddie was coming onto the stage

01:32:07   to talk about something.

01:32:10   Let me see, a car play, I think it was for some reason.

01:32:14   And he was coming on after I think Craig

01:32:16   had just shown off photos.

01:32:18   - Maps, maps he was producing.

01:32:20   - Okay, I was scanning through it, maps,

01:32:22   it then went on, oh, it was all, okay, yeah,

01:32:24   it was all maps stuff.

01:32:25   - Can't wait to do it. - Feels so fun,

01:32:26   it's like why was Eddie talking about maps?

01:32:28   But as he walked onto the stage, he said.

01:32:31   - I love the new photos, can't wait to do it.

01:32:34   - I love the new photos, I can't wait to do it.

01:32:36   Which is just like this little slip up,

01:32:38   but I think about this and still use this phrase

01:32:41   all the time and I had forgotten where it came from.

01:32:44   So I was actually pretty happy to get this question today

01:32:48   'cause I was reminded of, I can't wait to do it.

01:32:51   - My answer is it's a road trip.

01:32:56   - It's road trip, baby.

01:32:57   - That's one of my favorite weird things

01:33:00   where they were entering into a presentation program

01:33:03   and they were typing like our road trip or something.

01:33:07   - Utah.

01:33:08   - Oh, Utah Road Trip.

01:33:09   And it auto-corrected it to It's.

01:33:11   So it was It's Road Trip and it's in the whole demo.

01:33:15   And I believe that one,

01:33:16   they actually went back and changed the video.

01:33:18   Is that right?

01:33:19   - For the released video,

01:33:21   it was amended to Utah Road Trip.

01:33:25   - But we all remember it as It's Road Trip.

01:33:27   You can buy an It's Road Trip t-shirt now, apparently.

01:33:29   It just makes me laugh.

01:33:30   It's Road Trip.

01:33:31   If you know, you know.

01:33:34   Oh, so good.

01:33:35   I can't wait to do it.

01:33:37   -Can't wait to do it. -Oh, man.

01:33:38   Can't wait to do it. What is it? What is it?

01:33:41   -Oh, Eddie, you're the best. I miss Eddie. -The new photos.

01:33:43   You got to do the new photos, babe.

01:33:44   It's like Eddie's just being very Hollywood there.

01:33:47   Like, uh... Yeah, can't wait to do it.

01:33:49   If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on the show...

01:33:54   How? How do you do it? I don't know!

01:33:56   Well, there is a selection of ways.

01:33:59   You can tweet with the hashtag #askupgrade,

01:34:01   you can use question mark #askupgrade,

01:34:03   or some point after this episode is released,

01:34:06   you can go to our website or just click a link in the show notes, go to the show page,

01:34:10   there will be a button called feedback and you can send in your feedback there. Again,

01:34:13   we will give better instructions on this next week once the feature is hopefully shipped.

01:34:18   But that will be a great way to send in all kinds of feedback including your snow talk and ask

01:34:24   upgrade questions for those of you that aren't on Twitter anymore and this is too complicated to do

01:34:30   on Mastodon but the Discord is great, question mark, ask, upgrade, we'll send those questions in.

01:34:36   Please do, by the way.

01:34:38   I think because people have left Twitter,

01:34:40   I have less Ask Up Great Questions this time

01:34:43   than I would normally do.

01:34:44   So, you know, help us out.

01:34:48   Help your friendly neighborhood podcast host out

01:34:50   and send in your Ask Up Great Questions,

01:34:52   however you send them.

01:34:53   Okay. I'll do it.

01:34:55   If you would like to keep in touch with us,

01:34:57   see what we're up to,

01:34:59   in the meantime, until next week's episode,

01:35:01   you go to sixcolors.com for Jason's work.

01:35:03   You can, Jason's furiously typing lots of @ symbols

01:35:07   into our show.cam.

01:35:08   - Yeah, I'm just, if you've made the move to Mastodon

01:35:10   and you haven't followed me there, you can.

01:35:12   I actually am there.

01:35:13   I am @jsnell@mastodon.social, so you can--

01:35:17   - See, that's the part that frustrates me.

01:35:19   Is it, you have to do the @Mastodon,

01:35:21   like you have to say the server.

01:35:23   Like this is not good, right?

01:35:25   - It's not great.

01:35:25   - Can we all agree that it's not good?

01:35:27   - You know what is good is that I'm six colors

01:35:29   at Mastodon.social as well.

01:35:31   I'm not bleed six colors like I am on Twitter

01:35:33   because there was a club in Guadalajara, Mexico

01:35:35   that registered it and posted four tweets

01:35:37   like eight years ago and then stopped.

01:35:39   And I can never, ever, ever, ever get that username.

01:35:41   On Mastodon.social, just six colors.

01:35:43   Yeah, it's great.

01:35:45   And the incomparable on Mastodon.social too.

01:35:47   I got all my bots posting now.

01:35:49   Got all my bots posting to Mastodon.

01:35:50   I got bots posting to Twitter too,

01:35:52   which means I don't have to do it.

01:35:55   This was, although I still poke in on Twitter a little bit,

01:35:59   But I'm not, one of the things that I'm no longer

01:36:03   needing to do is post like the show to Twitter as much.

01:36:08   I need to do that for a upgrade too.

01:36:11   I'm still handcrafting those tweets,

01:36:12   but that's gonna have to stop.

01:36:14   - Zach is saying, "I have to save the server

01:36:17   "for my email address too in the Discord."

01:36:19   And it's like, I know that. - It's true.

01:36:21   - But it's long is the thing.

01:36:23   What I'm saying is going from,

01:36:25   I'm @jsnow on Twitter to I'm @jsnow@masterdawn.social,

01:36:28   It's just like, it's clunky, I don't like it.

01:36:31   And it's just also confusing

01:36:32   because it's so much to remember.

01:36:34   You have to know how to spell all of those things.

01:36:36   Like for example, I can never spell Mastodon correctly.

01:36:39   - No, you always put an A in there, don't you?

01:36:41   - How do you know that?

01:36:42   I mean, I do. - Because that's what I do too.

01:36:43   I'm a good speller and I can't spell Mastodon right.

01:36:45   Yeah, no.

01:36:47   - Which is, it's too much. - Say this for Twitter,

01:36:48   I can spell it.

01:36:50   - Way too much.

01:36:51   You're gonna have like,

01:36:52   it's @jstoddon. - J-W-T-T-R.

01:36:52   - M-A-S-T-O-O-D-O-N dot social, it's just like too much.

01:36:57   It's too much.

01:36:58   What I would do if I was on Mastodon

01:37:00   is I would just create a URL that forwards to my thing.

01:37:04   - Now the show is over.

01:37:06   - But I'm not gonna do any of that.

01:37:09   If you wanna find me in the meantime

01:37:10   on a bunch of podcasts, you go to mikehurley.net

01:37:12   and see everything that I'm doing.

01:37:14   And it is that time of year, go to theme system dot com

01:37:17   and learn about yearly themes

01:37:19   by yourself a theme system journal.

01:37:20   - Or go to Myke Hurley's house.

01:37:21   You go to 123 England Avenue.

01:37:25   - That is where I live, yeah.

01:37:26   - London, England, UK, Great Britain, not Europe.

01:37:31   - Please don't come to my house.

01:37:33   I also don't go to that address 'cause I'm not there.

01:37:36   - I mean, I'm not saying come to your house.

01:37:37   I'm saying go to your door and leave your message

01:37:39   in a piece of paper at the foot of the door.

01:37:43   - Not really into that part so much.

01:37:45   - Well then go to Myke's Mailboxes Etc.

01:37:48   at 124 England Street.

01:37:51   - Do you know that Mailboxes, et cetera, is a thing?

01:37:55   Do you, was that like a thing?

01:37:57   Like, do you know about this, Mailbox, et cetera?

01:38:00   - What about it?

01:38:01   - It's a store.

01:38:03   - Yeah, we have those. - In the UK.

01:38:04   You have them too?

01:38:05   - Yeah.

01:38:06   - Wow, look at that, international brand,

01:38:08   I didn't know that.

01:38:09   - Yeah, I think maybe they got bought by UPS.

01:38:10   I think maybe they're the UPS store now instead.

01:38:14   But they were Mailboxes, et cetera.

01:38:15   See how much harder it is to outro the show now that Twitter's gone away for many of us?

01:38:20   Red sky at night!

01:38:23   Yes. We'll be back next week. Until then...

01:38:25   Sailor's delight!

01:38:26   Say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:38:27   Goodbye, everybody. This is what 2023 is on upgrade, I guess.

01:38:31   [MUSIC]