427: He Renounced Lederhosen


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 427.

00:00:13   Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:15   Memberfall, and ClearMyMac X.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:20   Hi, Jason Snow.

00:00:21   - Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:22   How does it feel to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars

00:00:26   for St. Jude?

00:00:27   - Very good.

00:00:27   We actually just before we started the show today,

00:00:31   we closed our fundraising campaign.

00:00:33   A lot has happened in the last week

00:00:35   and we passed $706,000,

00:00:38   meaning that this year was the most money

00:00:40   we have ever raised in a year

00:00:41   for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:00:43   Thank you so much to everybody that participated

00:00:46   in the campaign this year.

00:00:48   But I have a #snowtalk question for you.

00:00:50   - All right. - Comes from Tony.

00:00:51   And Tony wants to know, Jason,

00:00:52   have you watched "Welcome to Wrexham"?

00:00:55   - I assume that I already talked about this somewhere,

00:00:57   but maybe not here.

00:00:58   Yes, yes, it's great.

00:01:00   - We haven't spoken about it because I'm loving it.

00:01:03   And I would have remembered having this conversation

00:01:05   with you.

00:01:05   - That's true, we definitely haven't spoken about it.

00:01:07   Yeah, it's good.

00:01:08   In fact, I had a friend who is interested in soccer

00:01:10   who said, "I isn't really just like those guys."

00:01:13   I'm like, "It's not just those guys, right?"

00:01:14   It's also about the town.

00:01:18   All those fans who are so concerned.

00:01:20   They're like, "Oh, these famous people

00:01:21   bought our soccer team.

00:01:23   Are they gonna ruin it?"

00:01:25   (laughs)

00:01:27   and how much it means to them, and that makes it, yeah.

00:01:31   Yeah, I'm really enjoying it.

00:01:32   - Yeah, like my, I was talking to my brother about it.

00:01:35   My brother's a big football fan,

00:01:36   and he has been pretty resistant to the entire idea

00:01:41   of Rob McElhenney and Ryan Reynolds

00:01:43   buying this football club, because they're like,

00:01:45   "Oh, this is setting a bad precedent,"

00:01:46   and like that kind of idea.

00:01:48   And I just said to him, like, "Just watch it."

00:01:50   'Cause I think the heart that they bring to this idea

00:01:55   is not something you would naturally have assumed,

00:01:57   but they genuinely seem to care

00:01:59   and seem to put a lot of effort and work in

00:02:02   to doing quote unquote the right thing.

00:02:05   And the show is just fantastic.

00:02:07   It's so good.

00:02:08   And as you say, like, yeah, it is a documentary

00:02:11   about two celebrities buying a football club,

00:02:14   but it's more than that.

00:02:15   And like some episodes, they're barely in it.

00:02:18   Like it's just following the kind of characters of the town

00:02:22   that they have established as interesting people

00:02:25   in Wrexham in Wales and understanding how ingrained it is.

00:02:30   It's really great.

00:02:31   So it's in Hulu in America, outside it's on Disney+.

00:02:35   They put it up the next day,

00:02:36   which I was really happy about 'cause genuinely,

00:02:39   genuinely I think that Reynolds and McElhenney

00:02:42   made a deal with Disney to make sure this was done

00:02:45   'cause this is not consistent.

00:02:48   That show The Bear, right, that's on Hulu.

00:02:50   We haven't got it yet.

00:02:51   And it's like, at some point we're gonna get it.

00:02:54   Like a lot of these Hulu shows,

00:02:56   it's like at some point it will come to Disney Plus.

00:02:58   And my assumption is just, they were very aware

00:03:01   that this show needs to be

00:03:02   in the United Kingdom immediately, right?

00:03:05   You can't make this show about a Welsh football team

00:03:09   and then it just show up at some point, right?

00:03:12   Like, ah, you know, whatever.

00:03:15   - This is a little different in the sense

00:03:17   that it's an FX show.

00:03:18   So it's on cable and then it goes to Hulu.

00:03:22   And so they've obviously, yeah, they got the rights set up

00:03:26   so that they would be able to stream it immediately

00:03:29   in the UK and elsewhere, presumably on Disney+.

00:03:31   Yeah, it's a really well done show.

00:03:33   And I get your brothers like,

00:03:38   "Oh boy, like this is not great."

00:03:40   Like I get it, but watching "Welcome to Wrexham,"

00:03:43   it makes it, at least it makes it seem very much like

00:03:46   that was a team that was dying, right?

00:03:50   Like it was falling into decay

00:03:53   and would either be irrelevant or gone.

00:03:58   And so there is this, I think it's a fascinating question,

00:04:01   which is, well, if a couple of Hollywood types come in

00:04:06   and buy your team and say they wanna put money,

00:04:08   their money in it and make it better, is that good?

00:04:12   Because as in the episode I watched last night,

00:04:15   which is the episode where they actually finally come

00:04:17   to Rexham 'cause they're like it's episode eight

00:04:19   before they show up in Rexham.

00:04:20   - That's a great episode.

00:04:22   - They obviously care about not ruining it.

00:04:27   And yet a line that comes back time and again

00:04:32   is change is inevitable.

00:04:35   And this is, I think, fascinating on a much broader scale,

00:04:39   which is this argument, 'cause I've seen this in business

00:04:42   and stuff that I've done in my career,

00:04:43   like things I've reported on, things that I've done myself,

00:04:46   like one of the common things you get is,

00:04:50   why can't it just stay the way it is?

00:04:53   And the problem with that is,

00:04:56   it's like you're gonna make it change.

00:04:58   I wanna keep it the way it is.

00:04:59   And I understand that sentiment,

00:05:02   that's a very human sentiment.

00:05:04   But the truth is, things change, right?

00:05:07   Things, it's not a choice between the steady state

00:05:10   that will go on forever and change, right?

00:05:13   It's a choice between letting it change on its own

00:05:18   or doing something to change it in a different way.

00:05:21   And I think people get caught up in the,

00:05:23   like these guys are gonna come in here and ruin it.

00:05:25   And their point, which they're gently trying to get across

00:05:29   is it's gonna change regardless, right?

00:05:32   Like the future of this football club is not what it is today

00:05:37   or what it was five years ago.

00:05:39   Like it's headed in one direction or another,

00:05:42   and we get to choose a different direction for it.

00:05:44   But like, if you leave it alone,

00:05:46   and it's just sort of neglected,

00:05:47   like it had been for years, that also leads to change, right?

00:05:52   It is not in a steady state.

00:05:55   And I think that's really interesting on a larger picture

00:05:57   that like, it's not your choosing

00:05:59   between these guys coming in

00:06:01   and everything being fine without them, right?

00:06:03   You're choosing between these guys coming in

00:06:04   and doing question mark, who knows what,

00:06:06   and what happens if they don't come in?

00:06:09   Yeah, and I think something that they talk about a bunch is like a lot of the change

00:06:13   everyone will be happy with if the team's winning. Right? Like, make a bunch of change

00:06:18   and do whatever you need to do. But if it ends up resulting on like in Wrexham getting

00:06:24   promoted moving forward and moving through the football leagues, like that's the good

00:06:29   kind of change. Like do what's needed there. So yeah, it's really interesting show. I've,

00:06:34   I'm a big fan of those guys anyway, so I was really excited about it and I've loved it.

00:06:39   And it's been fascinating to see why they did this and why they're doing it.

00:06:44   It's really cool.

00:06:45   I like it.

00:06:46   Recommended.

00:06:47   If you would like to send in a question for us to open an episode of Upgrade, just send

00:06:51   out a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk, use question mark #snowtalk in the relay FM members

00:06:56   Discord.

00:06:57   This was some follow out, Jason.

00:06:59   I want to give a shout out to Shelley Brisbane.

00:07:01   Shelly was on an earlier episode of the show this year to give a state of accessibility

00:07:06   on Apple's platforms, one of our verticals in the verticals extravaganza.

00:07:11   Shelly has a show called Parallel on Relay FM that's been on a bit of a season break

00:07:16   and the show's back now.

00:07:18   And this episode that just published last week is focused on new updates to the web

00:07:23   content accessibility guidelines, which is a thing that I didn't even know existed.

00:07:28   I'm going to go out on a limb and say many of our listeners who may be web developers

00:07:33   maybe don't know that this exists, so go listen to this episode of Parallel if this is of

00:07:39   an importance to you in your day job.

00:07:41   Did you know that the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, the WCAG, existed?

00:07:46   I think I did, but I don't know what's in them.

00:07:49   Oh, look at you.

00:07:50   Oh, okay, well there you go.

00:07:52   There's a spectrum of understanding here.

00:07:54   You can know it exists, but if you don't know what's in it, maybe that's still part of the

00:07:57   problem.

00:07:58   this recent episode of Parallel. You can find out about that. Also if you enjoy

00:08:03   this show and you want more of it you should subscribe to Upgrade Plus. You'll

00:08:06   hear no ads and you'll get bonus content every week. This week Jason's told me

00:08:10   that he has thoughts about the book After Steve. My library hold came in.

00:08:15   Yay! This is a book that I love and have been talking a lot about over the last

00:08:20   few months while I was reading it and I am intrigued because Jason's told me he

00:08:24   has "thoughts" about it so maybe my heart's gonna get broken.

00:08:27   Friends, I did not love it.

00:08:31   Oh, okay. Well, if you want to hear what that's all about, go subscribe to Upgrade Plus at

00:08:36   GetUpgradePlus.com.

00:08:39   Let's do some follow-up. Jason, Amazon put their Yankees game on the Yes Network.

00:08:45   They did. They did. This is the Aaron Judge hitting home runs, people want to see it.

00:08:50   Amazon bought the rights to what previously had been broadcast TV actually in the New

00:08:55   York area.

00:08:57   And so if you were in the New York area, this is so strange, I think we covered this in

00:09:02   a previous episode, but just to be clear, if you're in the New York area, some of the

00:09:06   games are on Amazon Prime Video, but only in the New York area, which is wild.

00:09:12   They bought broadcast rights, essentially.

00:09:15   So in this case, as Aaron Judge has been hitting many home runs, they took their Amazon game

00:09:20   game and put it on the Yes Network, which is the Yankee-owned cable channel that also

00:09:29   is in that region, where most of the games are. So that was one of those sort of like,

00:09:35   "We want to see it and we don't want to look at Amazon," which is weird because if you're

00:09:37   a Yankee fan, like, you've had a dozen more games on Amazon this year. You've had the

00:09:43   whole season. I think this goes back to that idea that there are some people out there

00:09:46   who are just so resistant to streaming that they are going to refuse it even if it's like

00:09:51   their favorite team because this is not like, I find that very strange. Like what could

00:09:57   motivate you more than your favorite team putting 10 or 15 games a year on Amazon Prime

00:10:02   Video? What could motivate you more than that to figure that out? And yet people, I guess,

00:10:11   complained and Amazon just said, "Yeah, we'll put that game on the Yes Network if that's

00:10:15   - That's fine.

00:10:16   - But Amazon owns 15% of the Yes Network.

00:10:18   (laughs)

00:10:19   And also it's like, unlike Apple TV Plus,

00:10:23   Prime Video isn't free, so.

00:10:25   - Exactly.

00:10:26   - Right?

00:10:26   - That is the big difference, right?

00:10:27   It is that Apple TV Plus isn't free, right?

00:10:28   But the baseball games, at least this year,

00:10:30   were free on Apple TV Plus.

00:10:33   So it's a different kind of thing.

00:10:34   But again, what this controversy says,

00:10:37   and I'll point out again, this is not free, it's cable TV.

00:10:42   You gotta pay for cable TV to see it.

00:10:44   So I think this plays right into the hands of the people who are the cable providers

00:10:49   and channels that have deals with the cable providers, including ultimately the money

00:10:53   flows to the baseball team, saying, you know, people are like, "Oh, we want it on cable."

00:10:58   It's like, okay, cable is a pay service that you can get baseball games on.

00:11:04   There are others, right?

00:11:06   Apple TV arguably—I know I said this last week, I'm going to say it again—Apple TV

00:11:10   arguably has a bigger addressable audience than cable because all you need is an internet

00:11:18   connection and a device, basically like a web browser, will do, and you, which again,

00:11:24   yes, you have to pay for the internet too, right? Like, but it, people with devices and

00:11:30   internet versus people who have paid for cable, I don't know, I think devices and internet

00:11:35   is probably a bigger number than people who pay for cable TV at this point, right? And

00:11:39   if not, it's probably in the ballpark of it.

00:11:42   And the only, so the only true free sports

00:11:47   is stuff that goes over broadcast.

00:11:49   And you know, nobody, I haven't seen anybody step up

00:11:52   and say, "Hey, everything should be on broadcast TV," right?

00:11:55   That ship has sailed.

00:11:56   So my point is, other ships are also sailing now

00:11:59   and they are streaming sports and that's just how it is.

00:12:03   - So tap to pay was a thing being rolled out for the iPhone.

00:12:07   I think you started with a version of iOS 16.

00:12:10   This is the idea of no longer needing a card reader

00:12:12   to take payments and there are a bunch of companies

00:12:14   jumping on board.

00:12:15   Square has now made it available with their platform.

00:12:19   So I think it was just a beta before,

00:12:21   but now it's available if you're a Square customer.

00:12:24   So if you have one of the little card readers or whatever,

00:12:26   you can now, if you have an iPhone that has an NFC chip in it

00:12:29   and is supported with that version of iOS,

00:12:32   you'll be able to take payments just from your device,

00:12:35   like device to card or device to device.

00:12:38   I think this is a pretty big deal,

00:12:41   especially for Square doing it.

00:12:42   I feel like they're maybe the,

00:12:44   or one of the market leaders in this technology.

00:12:47   And so now it's available if you are a Square customer.

00:12:51   - Yeah, so the idea here is that if you are,

00:12:54   like, I don't know, most of the,

00:12:55   during the pandemic especially,

00:12:56   most of the places at my local farmer's market now

00:13:00   are doing, you know, are taking cards and they were,

00:13:04   because of during the pandemic,

00:13:05   They're very much like,

00:13:07   we can put this little card reader out on the edge

00:13:09   and then you don't have to come close to us

00:13:10   and it's contactless and all of that.

00:13:12   But I also like the idea that even if you don't have

00:13:15   a terminal or a little extension or whatever,

00:13:17   maybe you're somebody who is,

00:13:20   I'm trying to come up with some examples,

00:13:22   but it's like anybody who does fee for service stuff

00:13:24   and they've got their phone with them

00:13:26   and they can say, just tap your card, right?

00:13:28   Instead of saying, I've got this square thing plugged in

00:13:31   and now here it is and let me run it and all of that.

00:13:34   'cause I've seen that too.

00:13:36   This is way easier than that.

00:13:37   It's not maybe as nice as if you've got a setup

00:13:39   with a kiosk, a little thing at the end of your table

00:13:43   or whatever, but so convenient to be able to say

00:13:45   as a small business person to say, just tap to pay,

00:13:50   and it's done.

00:13:53   - I mean, so back in the day when I used to go

00:13:56   to the Atlanta Pen Show with Brad,

00:13:57   and he would have like a table and be selling products

00:14:00   from his company, Knock.

00:14:02   and he would have to leave his phone with me if he went away

00:14:07   because he only had one reader

00:14:09   and he didn't want to sign in with the whole app and everything.

00:14:12   So it was like a whole thing because you had to link them together.

00:14:15   But now in theory, everyone that is in a business

00:14:19   could sign into the app, like to the Square app,

00:14:22   and you could just use your own phones to make it work.

00:14:24   It feels like this is a little bit more flexible of a situation.

00:14:27   You'd see people like, "Have you got the reader? No.

00:14:30   Mary's got the reader. You have to go get the reader for Mary. It's like a whole thing.

00:14:33   I know also, um, this is, everybody outside of the US is gonna find this hilarious, but

00:14:38   it really happens in the US, which is the plumber, the electrician, or whatever, comes

00:14:44   to your house, and then they say, "Can you write me a check?"

00:14:50   Yeah, that's madness.

00:14:52   Well, it is. It is, and yet, like, what else are they supposed to do? Like, we'll send

00:14:59   you a bill? Yeah, we don't do that here. We don't have that. Wire transfer, that would

00:15:05   be like you'd just be burned at the stake for that. I'm sorry, you're like, "No, out!

00:15:09   Get out! I'm taking your house. All the plumbing is mine now."

00:15:12   Well, Venmo, I guess, right? That's kind of what I'm talking about when I say bank transfer.

00:15:17   That idea of a very simple person to person.

00:15:20   Okay. I will say that that is also, although it's more common than it used to be, that

00:15:25   has also struggled to gain acceptance with,

00:15:27   I would say, especially an older audience.

00:15:30   My point here is that I think that there's a case to be made

00:15:36   that what will finally banish the check,

00:15:39   please write me a check, says the plumber,

00:15:41   from our world might be them realizing

00:15:46   that they can just load an app on their phone

00:15:50   and now they can accept that credit card right there.

00:15:54   right? Because their phone is just in their pocket. They don't have that little dealy

00:15:58   and now they don't even need it, right? All they need to do is have, they can set up or

00:16:02   have someone set up for them perhaps if they don't, if they aren't comfortable with that

00:16:06   technology, you know? And I'm not saying all plumbers are afraid of technology. I'm saying

00:16:10   my plumber is afraid of technology. So this is the, this is the point. Maybe this will

00:16:15   help banish the, I'm optimistic about this because this feels like the kind of thing

00:16:19   that really will get the whole write me a check thing out of the US finally.

00:16:22   Jason, get your calendar ready. October 27th, Apple's Q4 earnings call.

00:16:29   My calendar is already ready, Myke. I am ready, and that, you know what it means? It also

00:16:35   means that on Halloween, the spookiest episode of Upgrade will feature spooky results! Ooh!

00:16:45   Maybe. They actually could be a fright.

00:16:48   They could be?

00:16:49   They could be a fright.

00:16:50   - Hmm, we'll see.

00:16:53   Or maybe there'll be a treat.

00:16:54   That'll be our, that's our thing.

00:16:56   That's gonna be our thing, right?

00:16:57   Apple results, trick or treat.

00:16:59   - Trick or treat.

00:17:00   Ooh, that's good.

00:17:01   - Yeah, get ready.

00:17:02   - No rumor roundup this week.

00:17:04   There wasn't a ton of compelling stuff.

00:17:06   I do have a rumor followup for you,

00:17:08   which is Mark Gorman in his power on newsletter

00:17:10   is dabbling down no October event.

00:17:13   You see?

00:17:15   - Izzy, Izzy, I wanna parse Mark's words here, if I might.

00:17:20   - I would love you to do that.

00:17:22   - He says, "These announcements may not come

00:17:26   in the form of another flashy media event."

00:17:29   - Oh, so he's hedging a bit more actually.

00:17:31   He's not- - May not.

00:17:33   May not. - He's hedging down.

00:17:35   - And flashy media event, right?

00:17:38   Which I think goes back to the conversation we had,

00:17:40   which is there's lots of ways to do product releases, right?

00:17:44   Like what's a flashy media event?

00:17:46   Is he saying they'll put out a press release

00:17:49   and not a video?

00:17:50   I mean, maybe, but I would say,

00:17:52   why wouldn't you do a video at this point, right?

00:17:56   Like, why wouldn't you do a video

00:17:57   if you have anything worth talking about?

00:17:59   And I would argue maybe the MacBook Pro

00:18:01   is worth talking about,

00:18:02   and new M2 processors are worth talking about.

00:18:05   Last year they did this, and it was what,

00:18:06   a sub hour video that they put out?

00:18:09   Like, why not do it that way?

00:18:12   And you don't have to invite the media somewhere

00:18:14   just because the last two events they've held

00:18:16   have invited the media.

00:18:17   You can absolutely do the product briefing thing

00:18:19   with members of the media to release this stuff and review it.

00:18:23   So I don't know what Mark's trying to say here, because he's hedging and he's also saying

00:18:28   it's a flashy media event, and, you know, is, again, is a 45-minute long video and some

00:18:34   briefings with press a media, a flashy media event or not?

00:18:40   So I think that I'm still gonna remain skeptical of this.

00:18:45   I think this is kind of Mark Gurman's,

00:18:48   you know, more of a take and less of a report,

00:18:51   and that's fine, but I have yet to see anything tangible

00:18:55   that suggests, you know, and I'm fascinated by this too,

00:18:57   right, because that's the argument inside Apple is like,

00:18:59   well, how do we roll these products out?

00:19:00   And I would say you got a new iPad,

00:19:03   you got new Mac laptops, the MacBook Pros

00:19:06   that are very popular and people care about,

00:19:08   you've got new chips to boast about, at least a little bit,

00:19:10   assuming that they are impressive

00:19:12   and you want to boast about them,

00:19:14   you got that Mac Pro thing hanging out there,

00:19:16   maybe do kind of pre-announce that too.

00:19:18   Like why would you not do a video?

00:19:21   Like what's the extra overhead?

00:19:23   I know there's extra overhead to make a video,

00:19:25   but like surely there's way more benefit

00:19:27   to telling people next week, tune in,

00:19:31   and then letting a whole lot of people

00:19:32   watch an hour long commercial,

00:19:34   than just putting out a press release

00:19:36   and relying entirely on the press

00:19:38   to mediate between you and your audience, right?

00:19:42   The beauty of the Apple video announcement

00:19:43   is, people tune in and watch it. Whereas if you do a press release, everything's coming

00:19:48   through reports and Apple doesn't get to control the story as much as if it has the video that

00:19:54   it produces itself. So I'm still skeptical. I want to believe that they're going to do

00:19:59   a video, but we'll see. And that'll be a fascinating discussion just about what they announced

00:20:03   and what they chose in terms of rolling it out.

00:20:05   - Yeah, I just, I don't know.

00:20:07   Like, I agree with you, like,

00:20:09   if they did all of those things, right,

00:20:11   that it could be, like, event-worthy.

00:20:14   But let's imagine if they didn't have the Mac Pro to show

00:20:17   or whatever, and it is just like,

00:20:19   hey, we have new M2 processors in our iPads,

00:20:23   and we have new M2 processors in our MacBooks.

00:20:26   It might not be really that exciting, I don't know.

00:20:30   - If it's literally nothing interesting,

00:20:34   It's an M2 MacBook or M2 iPad Pro

00:20:39   doesn't do anything interesting.

00:20:42   And M2s of the Mac mini and the MacBook Pro,

00:20:46   but they're otherwise not that interesting.

00:20:49   And if they either don't have anything interesting to say

00:20:52   about the higher end M2 chips,

00:20:54   or the truth is that the higher end M2 chips

00:20:58   aren't that impressive,

00:21:00   it's better to do that as a press release, right?

00:21:03   and just say, "We refreshed with the M2.

00:21:06   It's one more, yay!"

00:21:07   And then move on with their lives.

00:21:09   Absolutely, they could do that.

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00:23:20   So iOS 16.1 is going through the beta process at the moment.

00:23:25   I'm very keen for this for live activities,

00:23:30   like when that starts to become a thing.

00:23:33   There's nothing on that now,

00:23:34   but I'm hoping in the not too distant future

00:23:37   that we'll start to understand what that's gonna be like.

00:23:39   And like, I'm really keen for that.

00:23:41   I think it's gonna be a whole different way

00:23:45   of using my new iPhone, right?

00:23:47   Pretty, pretty keen.

00:23:48   big missing piece of the whole Dynamic Island story

00:23:51   is gonna come into focus at some point here.

00:23:53   - That's part of iOS, right?

00:23:56   16.1.

00:23:57   But also we have no version of iPadOS

00:24:00   in case you've not keep a score in the 16 number, right?

00:24:04   At the moment, iPadOS goes to 15.7.

00:24:07   And they delayed it seemingly because they wanted

00:24:10   to spend some more time working on stage manager,

00:24:13   which is still a pretty buggy.

00:24:16   But now as of iPadOS 16.1 beta 3, which came out late last week, Apple have enabled previous

00:24:24   iPad Pro models that do not have an M1 chip to be able to use Stage Manager.

00:24:30   So namely the 2018 and 2019 12 inch iPad Pro and the 11 inch iPad Pro.

00:24:37   Which I saw recently, the 11 inch iPad Pro is now the current one, is the longest version

00:24:46   of a product, sorry, is the longest life of any iPad from like the age of the current

00:24:54   model number.

00:24:55   I need to find this, I saw this as a headline.

00:24:57   You know, it's just one of those headlines, like, "Oh, I saw that piece of information

00:25:00   away for later on."

00:25:01   But I was like, "Man, they've been sitting on that thing for a while."

00:25:04   I don't understand what that means.

00:25:07   This is from MacRumors.

00:25:08   The 2021 11" iPad Pro has today become, this is last week, the longest lasting model of

00:25:14   its kind ever on sale.

00:25:18   As of today, the 2021 11" iPad Pro is 513 days old, making it one day older than the

00:25:24   previous longest-reigning smaller iPad Pro model, 2016's 9.7" iPad Pro.

00:25:29   So it's only if iPad Pros, that's probably not as exciting as a statistic, hey kids always

00:25:34   read the articles before you say them.

00:25:36   - What about the M1, I mean, wasn't it released

00:25:38   the same day as the M1?

00:25:40   They were both M1s, right?

00:25:42   The 11 and the 12.9.

00:25:43   Did they not, I'm confused by that.

00:25:47   - I don't know, man.

00:25:51   I'm just saying, I'm just regurgitating.

00:25:53   The 11 is shipped before the 12.9, says Zach.

00:25:57   - Okay.

00:25:57   - So it's not a huge difference,

00:25:59   but that was a pointless aside.

00:26:00   - Congratulations, you did it.

00:26:01   - That was a pointless aside, all right?

00:26:03   best cup of coffee in the world.

00:26:06   You did it.

00:26:07   - How, what is that from?

00:26:09   - Elf.

00:26:10   - Thank you.

00:26:11   But what they have done, I mean, the big thing here

00:26:13   is they have enabled stage manager to work

00:26:15   on these three models of iPad Pro.

00:26:19   - Yes.

00:26:20   - Which was a complaint people had four months ago.

00:26:23   - Yes.

00:26:25   Yes, this was the initial, after the announcement in June,

00:26:28   there was a lot of detective work that people did

00:26:31   because they were irate, 'cause they said,

00:26:32   "Wait a second, you're saying that the M1 enables,

00:26:35   the M1 and the RAM or something enables stage manager,

00:26:39   but this older system has the same thing,

00:26:42   and so why would you not?"

00:26:43   And like, there was a lot of like,

00:26:44   this doesn't really make sense.

00:26:45   And I think the thought at the time was,

00:26:47   Apple obviously decided to draw the line here.

00:26:49   Like they didn't wanna go back.

00:26:50   And I had heard that there were, you know,

00:26:52   the chance that there were struggles

00:26:54   'cause they're doing the external display

00:26:55   and up to eight and all these things.

00:26:57   And like, somebody at Apple made the call of like,

00:27:00   "Look, let's just cut it at the M1."

00:27:02   people who don't have an M1, iPad Pro are like, "What are you doing?" We bought these

00:27:06   — you know, and the argument, which I think is a good one, is we bought these overpowered

00:27:11   pieces of hardware with the promise — and again, never buy hardware with the promise

00:27:15   of upgrades later, don't do it — but the idea that we all talked about at the time,

00:27:19   right, which is like the hardware had so far outpaced the software. So here finally comes

00:27:24   multi-window support, and they say, "No, no, no. Your hardware that was so advanced is

00:27:30   is now not advanced enough to do this feature.

00:27:33   And so interesting pivot that obviously,

00:27:35   ODA be a fly on the wall inside Apple for this,

00:27:38   interesting pivot here where they have now decided

00:27:42   to enable it on the older iPad Pro models

00:27:46   and simultaneously hold off on the release

00:27:52   of support for the external display on all iPads.

00:27:57   - So the non M1 models will not be able

00:28:00   to do external display support.

00:28:02   They'll only get to be able to use up to four apps

00:28:04   at a time on the iPad's display.

00:28:07   - On the screen itself and 16.1 has had external display

00:28:12   support for the M1 models turned back off.

00:28:17   - Coming later this year.

00:28:18   - 'Cause they are clearly focused on shipping Stage Manager

00:28:24   And so they've expanded the base

00:28:26   of the on-screen stage manager,

00:28:29   and they're now gonna try to fix the bugs

00:28:31   and ship that out.

00:28:32   So the good news is if you've got an iPad Pro

00:28:34   from 18 and 19, and you wanna use stage manager, you can.

00:28:39   The bad news, I guess, is for everybody,

00:28:42   external display stage manager is not gonna happen

00:28:45   for 16.1, it's gonna come later,

00:28:48   and that will still only be to M1.

00:28:52   which is, I'll just throw in there.

00:28:55   I think this is a little bit curious,

00:28:57   'cause they talk about the eight at a time,

00:29:01   but what they don't talk about is another design decision

00:29:04   that they made that I don't like,

00:29:06   which is the inability to run an iPad on external display

00:29:11   with the screen turned off, right?

00:29:16   You have to have, you know how you can close a MacBook

00:29:21   and plug it into an external display,

00:29:23   and then it's only driving the one display.

00:29:25   Well, you can't do that with an iPad.

00:29:27   You have to have your iPad open somewhere

00:29:30   with the screen on, and that's a decision Apple made, right?

00:29:34   They made that decision to do it that way.

00:29:37   And I would argue that maybe that leads to the fact

00:29:41   that these other iPads can't support an external display

00:29:44   because it's always said in the context of,

00:29:47   oh, well, up to eight apps at once with an external display,

00:29:51   like four and four. But I wonder if at the beginning of this process they had

00:29:56   said, "Yes, let's do a screen off mode," if those older ones might have supported

00:30:01   an external display too. But they seem again to have come too far down this

00:30:05   path. I still have hope that maybe in iOS iPadOS 17 they'll do a proper kind of

00:30:10   lid closed iPad because I find it really distracting and extraneous to have the

00:30:16   iPad screen and my big screen on at the same time. But in any event, it is good news. I

00:30:24   will also say, sorry to be the bearer of negativity in this good moment, users of older iPad Pros,

00:30:31   but I think Stage Manager is actually better on an external display and is a little less

00:30:35   useful on an internal display, especially the smaller one. I'm not as down on Stage

00:30:41   manager as Federico Vittucci is, but it feels to me like it really works best

00:30:49   when you've got lots of screen space, like on an external display, because I

00:30:56   always find myself with two apps side-by-side in Windows in Stage Manager

00:31:01   thinking to myself, "How is this better than Split View?" Right? Like I'm using, I'm

00:31:06   I'm actually using more pixels on Chrome and backgrounds

00:31:10   and corners of windows and stuff.

00:31:13   And if all I really want is the two things side by side,

00:31:16   and that's not always what I want,

00:31:17   but often that's what I want,

00:31:19   that's not actually better than split view at all.

00:31:21   And in fact, if you turn off stage manager at that point,

00:31:24   they just go into split view.

00:31:26   So it's a weird feature.

00:31:28   Like I'm glad it exists.

00:31:29   I'm glad that external display support is going to exist

00:31:32   at some point here,

00:31:33   even though they pulled it from the betas.

00:31:35   I'm glad that they're supporting older systems,

00:31:37   but there is, and people can listen

00:31:40   to last week's episode of Connected

00:31:41   if they wanna hear some more of Federico talking about this

00:31:44   'cause he spent the whole summer with it.

00:31:46   Like, it's buggy.

00:31:47   I think I'm not as down on its premises as he is,

00:31:51   but it's got weird bugs and the weird bugs keep coming

00:31:55   at a moment where you'd expect to see it settling down

00:31:58   and being shippable.

00:32:00   As he pointed out, like there's a weird bug

00:32:02   where if you click on a window,

00:32:05   then it can't hear your mouse clicks until,

00:32:10   the best part, my favorite part is,

00:32:11   until you move the mouse pointer, the pointer,

00:32:15   outside of the window's boundary,

00:32:17   and then move it back in, and then it'll hear your clicks.

00:32:20   You don't have to click outside.

00:32:21   You just need to move the pointer outside,

00:32:23   and then move it back in, and then you can click.

00:32:26   And it's like, well, wait a second.

00:32:27   It's almost October, now it is October,

00:32:30   and we're getting new bugs in this thing, it's troubling.

00:32:35   I think all of us have this kind of like

00:32:40   spider sense tingle happening where we're like,

00:32:42   hmm, this is not how this is supposed to go

00:32:46   in terms of shipping this product.

00:32:48   So, you know, I think the good news is

00:32:52   I think it ships turned off.

00:32:53   I agree with Federico.

00:32:54   It might be wise for them to not even tout this feature

00:32:57   when they roll it out and to have it like be there

00:32:59   as a secret feature you can turn on, but not promote it,

00:33:02   not suggest that anybody use it,

00:33:04   until they get it to the point where it's in better shape.

00:33:09   - I was talking about this on connectedly,

00:33:12   and like you should say, Federico was,

00:33:14   I don't know if it's right to say

00:33:18   he doesn't believe in the premise,

00:33:20   it's the current way that it works,

00:33:23   I think is a bigger issue for him,

00:33:24   where he feels like he can't even properly use it,

00:33:27   'cause he's coming up against bugs constantly.

00:33:30   - No, but he would very obviously prefer a tiling system.

00:33:33   Right?

00:33:34   He wants, he would prefer that it be split view plus,

00:33:38   right?

00:33:38   Where, which I see the argument there.

00:33:40   I don't like tiling systems.

00:33:42   I don't like, I like, like on my Mac,

00:33:45   I don't have every window not overlapping

00:33:48   and to all the way out, spread out to the far corners.

00:33:52   Right?

00:33:53   And the problem with the tiling system is

00:33:54   something's gotta be on the far edge

00:33:56   because that's how tiling works.

00:33:58   I don't actually like that.

00:34:00   I like freeform.

00:34:01   I get why some people like tiled windows.

00:34:04   There are lots of Mac utilities that do tiled windows.

00:34:06   But I will say that I do sort of see his point sometimes,

00:34:10   like I said, when I've got the two,

00:34:12   I've done a lot of work to get two windows side by side

00:34:15   in Stage Manager, and all I'm doing

00:34:17   is really replicating split view,

00:34:19   which I would just get if I turned Stage Manager off.

00:34:21   - Yeah.

00:34:22   But my feeling is, is that I'm not,

00:34:25   I don't know if they're putting the right efforts into the right places with Stage Manager.

00:34:30   Like I just, I'm not sure.

00:34:32   You know, like I was talking about this and I think Steve Trout and Smith was tweeting about like maybe,

00:34:36   you know, I was positing the question as if this took a lot of work from them to make it work on the non-M1 iPads.

00:34:43   I saw him saying something like they could just enable it.

00:34:46   I wonder if there was a lot of optimization work needed.

00:34:49   But all I feel like I can see is this is a feature which

00:34:53   should have evolved in a lot of really positive ways

00:34:56   over the beta period.

00:34:58   And there were some changes that have been good,

00:35:00   but it kind of feels like, at least on the iPad,

00:35:03   just the fundamental premise is a little flawed.

00:35:08   You can't freely move the windows around, right, still.

00:35:13   - That is a great point.

00:35:15   The idea that, all right, first off, they say,

00:35:19   okay, we're not gonna do tiling.

00:35:20   We're not gonna do super split view.

00:35:23   we're not gonna do that.

00:35:24   We're gonna do freeform windows and you can resize them

00:35:27   and you can drag them around on screen.

00:35:29   You're like, all right, all right, okay,

00:35:30   so more like the Mac, great.

00:35:31   And then they say, no, no, when we say freeform,

00:35:36   we don't mean it.

00:35:37   We mean certain sizes and certain places you can drag them.

00:35:41   - Freely form within a set level of forms.

00:35:45   That's what you can do.

00:35:46   - Well, it's like, well, what are we doing here then?

00:35:49   Like, why wouldn't you just do tiling at that point?

00:35:51   And over the summer, one of the things I've noticed is that they've been tweaking that

00:35:55   a little bit, where it's like slightly freer. "Guys, what are you doing? What is going on

00:36:03   here that you're..." It just seems weird. Are you going to the point where they're just

00:36:08   going to be totally freeform at some point? You're just going to check that box and be

00:36:11   like, "All right, go to town, everybody." It's this weird middle where they're like,

00:36:16   "We want you to have control, but not too much control."

00:36:20   And at that point, I don't know,

00:36:22   it either needs to be way smarter,

00:36:25   or it needs to just be freeform windows, right?

00:36:28   Just embrace that.

00:36:29   And I think that comes to the larger point,

00:36:31   which maybe you were getting at there a little bit too,

00:36:33   which is I'm not sure this is a feature

00:36:36   that sprung from a vision about what the end point was.

00:36:41   And this is my larger point.

00:36:45   when you talk about like you'd expect there to be more progress over the summer,

00:36:49   this is my larger point about stage manager, which is stage manager really feels

00:36:53   like we're watching what usually happens behind the scenes happen in public,

00:36:59   which is, it feels to me like they're still figuring it out.

00:37:04   And I don't mind that being done in public.

00:37:07   I think it's kind of great because we are all able to give them feedback about it.

00:37:11   But it is unusual for Apple because usually they go through all

00:37:15   of this on the inside, and then they spring something

00:37:19   where they're all kind of in alignment,

00:37:20   and they're like, "Yes, this is what we're gonna do."

00:37:22   And they spring that on as a WWDC.

00:37:25   And maybe they thought that's what it was, a WWDC,

00:37:28   but it became clear pretty rapidly that it wasn't,

00:37:31   and that there really wasn't kind of alignment,

00:37:34   and that the feedback was very strong.

00:37:35   And again, credit to them for listening to the feedback.

00:37:39   But here we are in this point now where it feels to me like,

00:37:42   On the one hand, I kind of want this feature.

00:37:45   On the other hand, this feature seems half-baked.

00:37:48   It really just seems like they need to spend,

00:37:52   not weeks, right, but months on adjusting it.

00:37:57   And that's my greatest fear about "Stage Manager,"

00:38:01   is that whatever they ship in 16.1,

00:38:05   they're gonna say, "Well, that's what we shipped,"

00:38:07   and they're gonna walk away from it for at least a year.

00:38:11   And I think it's not at the point now

00:38:14   where I would like them to spend the next year

00:38:17   in 16.2 and 0.3 and 0.4 and 0.5

00:38:22   working on stage manager.

00:38:23   Because if they ship something that's kind of,

00:38:27   you know, imperfect and then say,

00:38:30   "Well, now we're gonna go behind the curtain

00:38:32   and do the rest of our work behind the curtain,

00:38:33   see you in a year or two."

00:38:35   I think that's irresponsible.

00:38:37   'Cause like I think it was in 16.1 Beta 2,

00:38:41   they added the ability that you could freely move

00:38:45   an app horizontal.

00:38:47   - But not vertically.

00:38:48   - But only if there was an app larger behind it.

00:38:52   - Behind it, yeah.

00:38:53   Mm-hmm.

00:38:54   - Why is that the...

00:38:56   I don't get it.

00:38:58   - I don't know.

00:38:58   It's so arbitrary.

00:38:59   Well, and why, okay.

00:39:01   You know, on the iPhone, what Apple has told us is,

00:39:05   "Hey, we know you like lock screen images and wallpaper.

00:39:10   We're gonna create a whole system for that."

00:39:13   In stage manager, they're like,

00:39:14   "You know that wallpaper

00:39:15   that you very carefully picked for yourself?

00:39:17   We're gonna fuzz it in the background

00:39:19   so it's un-viewable

00:39:22   while you're using stage manager in the foreground."

00:39:25   Like, why?

00:39:27   Why would you do that? - 'Cause that makes it feel

00:39:28   like you're using a system on top of a system,

00:39:31   which shouldn't be how this feels.

00:39:33   I know that's what it is, the way they make you enable it, but I feel like it shouldn't

00:39:39   be like I'm enabling stage manager mode, it should just be more I choose to use my windows

00:39:45   this way.

00:39:48   I feel like that that blurring is kind of emblematic of an overall thing about stage

00:39:54   manager, where they're like, oh this is a mode.

00:39:58   Not like, hey we're rethinking the way that this is supposed to work.

00:40:01   - Correct me if I'm wrong,

00:40:02   it doesn't blow your background on macOS?

00:40:05   - No.

00:40:06   - Right.

00:40:07   - Yeah, I don't, I mean, on macOS,

00:40:09   you can now actually choose to show the documents

00:40:11   in the Finder too.

00:40:12   So like, it's, on macOS, they've said,

00:40:16   "Oh yes, your backdrop is your backdrop."

00:40:18   And yet on iOS, they're like,

00:40:19   "No, no, when you're using Stage Manager,

00:40:21   "although we'll give you a hint of what's back

00:40:22   "on your backdrop that you selected yourself,

00:40:26   "you can't see it, it's not legible."

00:40:29   I'm like, I don't understand, like people like that.

00:40:31   Why would you do that?

00:40:32   And it's interesting that you mentioned the mode.

00:40:35   I do think, I mean, we'll see how this goes,

00:40:37   but like I have occasionally used Stage Manager

00:40:41   on the iPad with apps maximized.

00:40:45   And what I found is it kind of feels like

00:40:49   what they want the iPad ultimately to feel like,

00:40:54   which, 'cause you can use it with all apps maximized,

00:40:57   but Stage Manager turned on.

00:40:58   And all that really changes is that

00:41:01   the animations are different,

00:41:03   but otherwise it feels like the iPad, right?

00:41:06   'Cause all of the windows are full screen,

00:41:09   or at least you could switch between ones

00:41:11   that are full screen and the ones that have two windows

00:41:13   floating and all of that, different stages.

00:41:14   And I think, yeah, this is almost a vision

00:41:17   of where the iPad is going,

00:41:18   which is everything's full screen by default,

00:41:20   stage manager is always on,

00:41:22   and then you can pop things out of full screen

00:41:25   and do stuff with them.

00:41:26   But what's interesting is, right, like,

00:41:28   that's kind of way in the background

00:41:30   because the work hasn't been done up in the foreground yet

00:41:35   to make it worth it.

00:41:36   And so instead Stage Manager remains a mode that is,

00:41:40   you know, I don't know, I'm fascinated by it

00:41:42   because I'm like Federico, one of those people

00:41:44   who has been asking for this kind of feature

00:41:46   for a long time now.

00:41:47   And what I don't feel like is that I've got a clear vision

00:41:51   of like Apple knows why all of these decisions

00:41:54   have been made.

00:41:55   it feels much more like, let's change this.

00:41:59   Are you happy now?

00:41:59   Let's change this.

00:42:01   Are you happy now?

00:42:02   And that's the, I mean, I appreciate listening to the users,

00:42:05   but I would also like a very clear and consistent vision

00:42:08   about why this feature exists

00:42:10   and how it's supposed to be used.

00:42:12   And the problem is that it's just kind of muddy right now.

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00:44:26   So one day last week Jason sent me a tweet and he said "We need to cover this on the

00:44:31   show, we need to talk about this." And it was a picture of Tim Cook and Eddie Q at Octoberfest

00:44:39   in Munich, right? - Yep.

00:44:41   - And we were like, oh yeah, that's like a funny thought,

00:44:44   oh, it's like an interesting thing, why are they there,

00:44:46   why are they doing this?

00:44:48   And we were like, oh, we should talk about

00:44:51   the wild European tour that Tim Cook

00:44:54   seems to be on right now.

00:44:55   So today, I sat down and went through Tim's tweets

00:45:00   and have-- - Oh, excellent.

00:45:02   - And I'm now going to give you a blow-by-blow

00:45:05   of everything Tim Cook has been doing over the last week

00:45:08   based upon his Twitter account, right?

00:45:11   - It is amazing.

00:45:12   I should say he started in New York,

00:45:13   so he was already flying east.

00:45:15   He went to Apple 5th Avenue,

00:45:17   Apple Upper West Side and Apple Upper East Side.

00:45:21   - He was just making his way.

00:45:23   He didn't wanna do-- - He's just getting started.

00:45:24   - Tim doesn't wanna do a 12-hour flight, right?

00:45:26   So he's gonna do like a five-hour flight

00:45:28   and then a six-hour flight or whatever.

00:45:30   You know, he's gonna break it up.

00:45:31   He's a big, powerful executive.

00:45:33   All right, so begins in London with some store visits.

00:45:38   - Yes.

00:45:39   - This is the second time that I've decided

00:45:40   not to go to an Apple store on a day

00:45:43   and then Tim Cook has appeared in that Apple store

00:45:45   later on that day.

00:45:47   I did have that time where I was in the store

00:45:49   with Johnny Ive though,

00:45:50   so that would do for me more than enough.

00:45:52   'Cause I don't think I could do

00:45:54   the whole selfie thing anyway.

00:45:55   I don't think I would be able to pluck up the courage.

00:45:57   - And it's a zoo.

00:45:58   It's a zoo.

00:45:59   - Exactly.

00:46:00   - Yeah.

00:46:01   - Yeah, I just couldn't, I wouldn't be able to do that.

00:46:02   I would be way too embarrassed

00:46:04   and I also don't wanna try and muscle my way

00:46:06   in the swarm of people, right?

00:46:09   He then announced a new partnership

00:46:13   with the Southbank Center in London,

00:46:16   as part of their racial equity and justice initiative.

00:46:18   So spreading it out from outside of the US,

00:46:21   it's then now gone.

00:46:23   - Tweeting another picture of him in London.

00:46:25   - Then he showed off the first images

00:46:28   of the new London campus built inside

00:46:30   of Battersea Power Station, which looks stunning.

00:46:34   - It does.

00:46:35   looks so beautiful.

00:46:37   I hope I would get to see that at some point in my life,

00:46:40   but I don't know.

00:46:41   Seems like, actually, weirdly, I feel like more likely

00:46:45   for me to see the inside of Apple Park

00:46:49   than whatever they're gonna call the Apple London office.

00:46:53   - I am sure that there's somebody who listens

00:46:55   who's gonna end up working at the Apple office

00:46:58   at Battersea and they're gonna--

00:47:00   - They're not gonna let me in.

00:47:02   - They're gonna let you in.

00:47:03   - I don't know.

00:47:04   I don't know, we'll see.

00:47:06   I might have to do a canary in the coal mine

00:47:09   kind of thing there, right?

00:47:10   'Cause maybe I wouldn't be able to say I was in,

00:47:12   so we can come back on it later on.

00:47:15   But the images are beautiful.

00:47:16   There was then a, I think really weird,

00:47:18   Ted Lasso photo shoot,

00:47:20   where they do like a staged image of them

00:47:22   in like the executive box.

00:47:24   - Let's break it down.

00:47:25   So the tweet is, "Go AFC Richmond."

00:47:28   In this panel, we have actors from Ted Lasso

00:47:32   and people from Apple.

00:47:34   - Yeah.

00:47:35   - So like Lisa Jackson is there with Tim and-

00:47:39   - Deidra, Brian's in that image I think.

00:47:42   - Yep, she's there.

00:47:45   And I think there's an Apple PR person there too.

00:47:48   And then also we have one, two, three, four, five,

00:47:52   five members of the Ted Lasso team,

00:47:57   including Jason Sudeikis is right behind Tim Cook.

00:48:01   But I wanna focus on the right side of this image.

00:48:04   (laughing)

00:48:06   - Okay.

00:48:06   - Where Hannah Waddingham is pumping fists and shouting.

00:48:11   And next to her, Eddie Q is pointing

00:48:17   with his finger and shouting.

00:48:20   And I just wanna say,

00:48:22   like I saw some people on the internet are like,

00:48:24   you know, okay, well you can tell who the actors are

00:48:26   and who the not actors are.

00:48:27   - You really can, like you really can't,

00:48:29   except for Eddie Q, but you really can, right?

00:48:31   - Except, friends, for Hannah Wantingham and Eddie Q,

00:48:36   who are sharing the exact same energy.

00:48:42   It's amazing.

00:48:43   - Well, but this is the thing.

00:48:44   I feel like Hannah Wantingham is doing,

00:48:47   I think, the best job of trying to portray

00:48:51   what should be portrayed in this moment,

00:48:53   which is like they're supposed to have scored.

00:48:55   But Eddie Q, similar energy that he's bringing

00:48:58   to the whole situation.

00:49:00   I can also do that.

00:49:01   - Yes. - Yeah.

00:49:02   - Tim Cook has no acting ability.

00:49:04   I think we've seen this in a few different ways.

00:49:06   - Hooray! - I don't think it's his thing.

00:49:08   And look, this isn't a criticism.

00:49:10   He's not trying to be an actor,

00:49:12   but at the same time, I don't know why they decided

00:49:15   to do this.

00:49:16   Like, there's so many other ways they could have done this.

00:49:18   - 'Cause obviously there's a photographer down below saying,

00:49:20   "All right, we're gonna score a goal.

00:49:21   "Goal, yay!

00:49:22   "Click, click, click, click, click."

00:49:23   Right?

00:49:24   That's what they're doing there.

00:49:25   - Why couldn't they have just had a picture

00:49:26   of them all together, you know?

00:49:28   It's also like there's so many things that I'm intrigued about this like why did they do this?

00:49:33   This is like breaking down a Renaissance painting isn't it? Like what is this about?

00:49:37   What like I mean I have other questions of like why is Deirdre O'Brien and Lisa Jackson there like but not all the time

00:49:43   Why is it I mean I think I can kind of guess why Eddy Cue is there right?

00:49:47   Yes right

00:49:48   But like I but then it's like why then is like Eddy Cue in another image but nobody it's like all these things I don't understand

00:49:55   But the bigger thing is like what is going on with Ted Lasso, right?

00:50:00   Like this is the thing that's being spoken about like it's late

00:50:05   potentially over budget like and like

00:50:08   Why Tim Cook and Eddie Q went to go meet with Jason Sudeikis and like right like what's going on here?

00:50:14   You know, or is it just like a meet-and-greet but maybe they had a little conversation

00:50:19   I think well, I think they were they were they're still in London shooting and they're planning this thing

00:50:23   So that it became a you know, you're gonna come and you know, we're gonna we're gonna do some stuff with Tim and Eddie

00:50:28   yeah, it's

00:50:31   It's something anyway, I just I love that I got more I have more to say about eddy-q. Yeah

00:50:37   I'm just gonna leave it there for now

00:50:39   When we get to the later hosting I have more to say about eddy-q, but just eddy-q Hannah waddingham. They are

00:50:45   Feeling the same vibe in that shot. I love it. So we're still in London at this point

00:50:52   Tim meets some female founders,

00:50:55   as part of a founder's group in London.

00:50:57   He visits with musicians at Apple's Platoon Studios.

00:51:02   And I was like, "What is that?"

00:51:04   I Googled it.

00:51:05   They bought a company in 2018, 2019 called Platoon Studios.

00:51:09   And it's about music creation and distribution.

00:51:12   Seemed like maybe they just wanted to have some studios.

00:51:15   - And there's Nandi Bushell,

00:51:18   who people might know from, she's the drummer,

00:51:20   who did those YouTube videos with Dave Grohl.

00:51:22   So there's a picture of Tim Cook and Lisa Jackson

00:51:27   with her at the drum kit.

00:51:28   - We then go off to Berlin.

00:51:32   - Off to, yes, to Berlin.

00:51:34   - For some store visits at first.

00:51:36   It always starts with store visits.

00:51:38   I wonder if the retail staff know this is going to happen.

00:51:44   I bet like the manager knows, right?

00:51:47   - I think everybody knows.

00:51:49   - You reckon everybody knows?

00:51:50   - I think everybody knows.

00:51:52   It's like, Tim's gonna be here on this day.

00:51:53   They're like, you can't be here.

00:51:55   Like not you, Gunter, no.

00:51:59   - Oh, like, or maybe just like all of a sudden,

00:52:02   for some reason, you're told like,

00:52:04   don't worry about coming to work today.

00:52:05   Why?

00:52:06   Don't worry, you're still paid, but just don't come in.

00:52:08   - Don't come in.

00:52:10   - Just don't come in.

00:52:11   Then a beer with Eddie Q at Oktoberfest.

00:52:14   - Okay, yes.

00:52:16   And a tweet, nice tweet.

00:52:17   (speaking German)

00:52:20   So happy to be back in Oktoberfest post.

00:52:26   Okay.

00:52:27   All right, they got the giant beers.

00:52:29   Tim and Eddie on the left side.

00:52:34   Eddie's got the lederhosen on.

00:52:35   Tim's got his khakis on.

00:52:39   This is Tim.

00:52:40   - Yes, this is the great part, right?

00:52:42   Like everybody else is fully decked out.

00:52:45   He has decided, Lederhosen, not for me, right?

00:52:49   But he's just got, you should say,

00:52:51   some regular jackets on.

00:52:52   - Yeah, he's just decided, he's put the uniform on

00:52:57   on the top, but on the bottom, he's like,

00:52:59   "I'm not wearing that, I'm just gonna wear my khakis."

00:53:01   No one will notice.

00:53:02   Well, we noticed him, I see you.

00:53:03   - It gets cold. - They got their beers.

00:53:04   - I've done it.

00:53:05   A couple of years ago. - Yeah, sure.

00:53:07   - I think it was 2019, - It's October.

00:53:09   - Octoberfest. - Ish.

00:53:10   - I did the whole thing.

00:53:11   Well, I didn't get the jacket,

00:53:13   but I had the whole Lederhosen thing,

00:53:14   and I had a shirt and all that,

00:53:16   and I was ready to go and it was freezing.

00:53:17   But I had the long socks, which you also do.

00:53:19   So really it's just the knees that get cold.

00:53:22   - Yeah.

00:53:23   I just want to say again, Eddie Q.

00:53:26   Like Tim's got his smile of like smile for the camera, Tim.

00:53:31   The people next to him are looking off away from the camera,

00:53:34   as is Eddie Q.

00:53:35   I think that's interesting that Tim is super locked in

00:53:38   to the camera, but there's somebody to the left

00:53:41   of the photographer who clearly is also taking a picture.

00:53:44   Well, I think there's a bunch of pictures and the one that Tim chose to publish is the one where he's looking at the camera, right?

00:53:49   Yeah.

00:53:50   Tim doesn't care if Eddie Q's looking.

00:53:53   But let me boil this down.

00:53:55   Look at Eddie Q.

00:53:57   Eddie Q is never not having fun, isn't he?

00:54:00   Like, Eddie is having a good time, and I don't know if Eddie drank that whole beer,

00:54:05   but I'm gonna wager that Eddie drank more of it than Tim did.

00:54:09   Those beers?

00:54:10   Hard to hold.

00:54:10   Huge glasses, really heavy.

00:54:12   Huge, very heavy.

00:54:13   Oh no, I get it.

00:54:14   I get it, but like, I don't know,

00:54:17   Eddie Q, he's having a good time.

00:54:19   That's all I'm saying.

00:54:20   I love Eddie's energy on this trip in these photos.

00:54:23   It's amazing.

00:54:23   - I just don't understand how this came to be.

00:54:27   I don't know why this came to be.

00:54:28   And also, who are those other people?

00:54:30   Who are they?

00:54:31   Do you know who they are? - I don't know.

00:54:32   - Does anybody know who they are?

00:54:34   Like, they must be important, right?

00:54:36   And like, maybe someone's gonna tell me like,

00:54:38   "Hey, Myke, that's the mayor of like Munich."

00:54:41   - Of Munich, yeah. - You know what I mean?

00:54:42   It's like, okay, but I don't know this.

00:54:45   And Tim has not made it a thing.

00:54:46   - Marshall of Bavaria, I don't know.

00:54:49   - He's not mentioned who they are.

00:54:51   - Yeah, yeah, she's the Marshall of Bavaria

00:54:53   and he is the mayor of Munich, let's say.

00:54:56   - Okay, we'll go with that, I like that.

00:54:59   - Tim is having a good time.

00:55:00   Myke, I'm just gonna make a proposal now.

00:55:04   We may, this may become so legendary

00:55:06   that we may have to follow in Tim's and Eddie's shoes.

00:55:09   We may have to recreate this ourselves.

00:55:11   I would 100% do this.

00:55:14   - I'll fly to London, we'll go to various Apple stores,

00:55:18   and then yeah, off to Oktoberfest,

00:55:20   where you will put on the lederhosen

00:55:23   and I will wear khakis.

00:55:25   - I feel like, I mean, I don't know Tim Cook personally,

00:55:29   and like, I learned some information about him

00:55:33   from the After Steve book potentially,

00:55:34   we'll talk about that in Upgrade Plus,

00:55:36   go to getoctoprefus.com.

00:55:38   This doesn't necessarily feel like his vibe.

00:55:42   Like I don't really know, I can't,

00:55:44   I'm just like fascinated, why is he there?

00:55:47   - So the guy next to him, we've just gotten this in

00:55:50   from our experts in the Discord,

00:55:53   including a friend of the show, Saskia.

00:55:57   He's a German TV personality, Kai Flama.

00:56:01   - Well, that's only made it worse for me, right?

00:56:05   Because that doesn't make any sense.

00:56:06   Were they doing an interview?

00:56:07   - He's literally a game show host, game show host.

00:56:11   - Oh, why then?

00:56:13   - I don't know.

00:56:16   - All right, well, that's only deepened

00:56:18   the curiosity for me.

00:56:20   Do they know each other?

00:56:23   Are they trying to like do some German TV content?

00:56:26   - Maybe so, maybe that's it.

00:56:27   Maybe there's a segment where he--

00:56:29   - Maybe that's why Eddie's there?

00:56:31   - It's we took them, no, I was thinking maybe it's we took,

00:56:34   He's doing a TV bit where it's like,

00:56:37   Tim Cook visited Oktoberfest

00:56:40   and we went along with him or something.

00:56:42   - Yeah, maybe it's like a little interview kind of thing.

00:56:45   Who knows?

00:56:46   - Off the next day, presumably in the morning.

00:56:51   So Eddie's not there 'cause he was sleeping it off

00:56:54   to an anechoic chamber where I believe a new member

00:56:59   of the road trip is revealed.

00:57:03   Because I think that's Johnny Srouji.

00:57:06   - That is Johnny Srouji.

00:57:07   - So whether he was there all along and said,

00:57:10   don't take pictures. - This is fascinating.

00:57:11   Did they just come and go?

00:57:13   - I will catch up with you in Munich.

00:57:15   Well, yeah, I'll catch up with you in Munich, Tim.

00:57:18   And he's bright eyed and bushy tailed and Tim's like,

00:57:20   look, I was at Oktoberfest yesterday.

00:57:24   - If you ever had beers of Eddie,

00:57:26   'cause like I have beers of Eddie, right?

00:57:27   You know what that means. - I held a beer.

00:57:29   Well, yeah, so they're in an anechoic chamber,

00:57:31   which I've been in in Cupertino actually,

00:57:33   during Antennagate, which was really fun.

00:57:35   It's the kind of place where you step into it.

00:57:37   You don't realize that there's like noises and echoes

00:57:40   and things everywhere in your life

00:57:42   until you step into an anechoic chamber

00:57:44   and it's as if you have lost your hearing

00:57:47   because suddenly it is creepily silent.

00:57:49   - Maybe Tim had a hangover and could only exist

00:57:53   inside of an anechoic chamber that day.

00:57:55   - It's the only, this is where Eddie slept last night.

00:57:59   (laughing)

00:58:02   - Oh, it's amazing.

00:58:03   All right.

00:58:04   - All right, so this is some cellular testing

00:58:07   they were doing there.

00:58:07   He then went on to meet some Munich-based photographers.

00:58:12   - Okay.

00:58:12   - Then did a meet and greet at FC Bayern Munich,

00:58:17   where they gave him a replica shirt.

00:58:20   - Yeah, they had the surfing, the urban surfing, right?

00:58:23   Like that was that part, which is interesting,

00:58:26   people surfing at an urban surfing something in Munich.

00:58:31   And yes, then off to FC Bayern

00:58:35   and Apple Rosenstrasse, our first show,

00:58:39   our first store in Germany, he says.

00:58:42   - So yeah, offer more stores.

00:58:44   Then he heads off to Naples.

00:58:46   - Hold, now, now, hold on, before we get there,

00:58:48   I have another update from Emma,

00:58:55   who has sent a link to Apple boss Tim Cook celebrates

00:58:59   with Kai Flama at the Oktoberfest

00:59:01   and suddenly tweets in Bavarian story.

00:59:03   Tim Cook used his visit to Germany

00:59:06   for a detour to the Oktoberfest.

00:59:09   Is there anything in there

00:59:10   or is this just German clickbait?

00:59:11   What is going on?

00:59:13   Tim is here.

00:59:14   - They're upset that he renounced Lederhosen.

00:59:17   - The television presenter had apparently made an appointment

00:59:19   with the CEO beforehand.

00:59:20   He posted several pictures and videos of it

00:59:22   on his Instagram account.

00:59:24   But he, yes, Tim renounced lederhosen,

00:59:29   and they say he appeared in jeans.

00:59:31   Those are khakis. Those aren't jeans.

00:59:32   Maybe that's a translation issue.

00:59:34   -Yeah, I will say that this is one of those things

00:59:36   where I'm, like, really thankful for web translation

00:59:39   inside of Safari. -Yep.

00:59:40   -Safari still doesn't support as many languages as Chrome does,

00:59:44   but I'm happy they added this feature.

00:59:46   So, 'cause now we can -- It doesn't really --

00:59:49   Basically, this is an article just referencing

00:59:51   the fact that this happened. -Yes.

00:59:52   -It doesn't really seem to give us any more context

00:59:54   as to why it happened, which is the real holy grail.

00:59:56   - Other than that the TV presenter

00:59:59   also put it on his Instagram.

01:00:01   Okay, off to Naples.

01:00:03   - Which I'm not surprised.

01:00:04   Yeah, off to Naples.

01:00:05   - Napoli, Italia.

01:00:06   - I'm going to Naples, meet some artists

01:00:08   that are using technology for sculpture.

01:00:11   I always wonder when I see these things,

01:00:13   you see a picture and like a guy's explaining something

01:00:15   to Tim Cook, how long do you think they spend together?

01:00:19   - Oh, I don't know, 15 minutes.

01:00:21   - It's gotta be, right?

01:00:22   like a very quick drop in drop out.

01:00:25   He then moves on to speaking at the Naples Developer Academy.

01:00:31   So Apple set up a bunch of these developer academies

01:00:34   around the world.

01:00:35   I think Italy was one of the first ones.

01:00:37   And he did a meet and greet

01:00:39   and looks like he did some kind of panel or conversation.

01:00:41   Tim is then given an honorary diploma

01:00:46   at the University of Naples Federico II.

01:00:48   (laughing)

01:00:50   Then it just continues, it's like,

01:00:52   "One day I'm getting a beer."

01:00:54   Now I'm in a chamber, now I have a diploma.

01:00:56   - So I sent you that note about the Ted Lasso thing, right?

01:01:01   And then the Oktoberfest thing happened,

01:01:03   and I thought, well, this is amazing.

01:01:05   And then it was like, but wait for it, wait for it.

01:01:07   Boom, honorary degree from Federico II,

01:01:11   where he's got his sort of robes on,

01:01:15   and the man presenting it to him

01:01:17   has sort of like a fur around his neck and a hat and robes,

01:01:21   and there's a giant oversized novelty diploma

01:01:25   for an honorary degree in innovation

01:01:28   and international management.

01:01:30   What? (laughs)

01:01:31   Amazing.

01:01:32   - Tim then met with some Paralympians

01:01:36   and is holding a fencing sword.

01:01:39   I know they've got a better name than that.

01:01:40   - Foil, foil.

01:01:41   - And I do wonder, is he holding it for the Paralympian

01:01:44   or do you think they did a bit of fencing?

01:01:46   I think they said, "Tim, here is a foil."

01:01:50   And he said, "Great."

01:01:52   And that was it.

01:01:53   - For the photo op, right?

01:01:54   Let's make it look like that you just engaged

01:01:56   in some fencing.

01:01:58   He then met with some photographers in Milan,

01:02:02   did a store visit in Milan,

01:02:04   met with a Milan-based app developer called BendingSpoons,

01:02:10   then spent some time with the Apple team in Milan

01:02:16   It was like a photo op.

01:02:18   And then it came out today

01:02:19   that you also had a private audience with the Pope

01:02:22   while he was in Italy. - What?

01:02:23   - Yeah. - What?

01:02:24   - Yeah.

01:02:25   There was some images of this release today.

01:02:28   This was not something that he tweeted about,

01:02:31   which is interesting.

01:02:32   No Pope selfie.

01:02:33   But this was a point, this was reported on via Reuters

01:02:37   that Tim had a private meeting with the Pope.

01:02:41   - I mean, we have, there are pictures

01:02:43   of Tim shaking the hands of Pope Francis

01:02:47   and Tim sitting upright in a probably uncomfortable chair,

01:02:52   speaking to the Pope.

01:02:54   This isn't the first time Tim Cook

01:02:57   has visited Pope Francis.

01:02:58   - Is that true?

01:03:00   - This is what 9to5Mac says,

01:03:01   "Previously paid a visit to the Vatican in January of 2016."

01:03:04   But that was a private meeting

01:03:07   with no photo op for that one.

01:03:09   - I see.

01:03:10   I've said this a bunch on this show before,

01:03:11   but like Tim Cook is as powerful as a world leader.

01:03:16   - Yes.

01:03:18   - And like these things, when he does these things,

01:03:21   this is what world leaders do.

01:03:23   Like, you know, like they go and they do these tours

01:03:27   and like they do all these meet and greets

01:03:29   and like these follow ups, right?

01:03:30   - What role does Eddie Q serve in this parallel

01:03:35   of world leader?

01:03:36   What's Eddie doing?

01:03:40   I mean, he's, you know, he's out there having a good time, you know?

01:03:43   He's the secretary of commerce or something.

01:03:44   Making deals.

01:03:45   Maybe he's over there and he's like shooing Sudeikis along.

01:03:49   You know, like, "Come on, Jason, let's finish this off, shall we please?"

01:03:53   Could be. "Don't make Tim angry."

01:03:55   That's Tim Cook's tour of Europe for now.

01:03:59   I don't know he's done. I'm assuming he's done.

01:04:01   Yeah, I mean, he's been silent since the pope.

01:04:04   Maybe the pope said too many photos on Twitter.

01:04:07   Like, "Sorry, pope. Sorry."

01:04:09   - Give it a rest will you.

01:04:10   - Padre.

01:04:10   I, again, I just, you know,

01:04:15   I'm following along in real time

01:04:17   and each photo is more,

01:04:19   well, like a lot of them are standard photos, right?

01:04:21   You're like, oh yes, we went to a store, great.

01:04:23   And here's some, we met with some developers

01:04:25   and here's an inspiring person we met with.

01:04:27   I'm like, okay.

01:04:28   And now here, now we're holding giant beers

01:04:30   with EdiQ at Oktoberfest.

01:04:32   What?

01:04:33   And so it's like, okay, now we're in Italy.

01:04:36   I'm like, oh geez, how long is this tour gonna go?

01:04:38   I feel for the guy."

01:04:39   And they're like, "Yeah, we met with these people

01:04:41   and these people.

01:04:42   Oh, and then I got an honorary degree

01:04:44   from the guy with the hat and the fur."

01:04:47   What?

01:04:48   So just very entertaining.

01:04:51   So I hope you've enjoyed this retrospective tour

01:04:55   of Europe with Tim Cook.

01:04:58   It's amazing.

01:04:59   Maybe there's an Apple TV+ series in this.

01:05:00   It's Tim Cook searching for the pope.

01:05:03   - Tim travels.

01:05:04   - Tim travels.

01:05:05   It's like, maybe like cooking up or something, right?

01:05:10   Like, right?

01:05:12   It's something-- - European cooking.

01:05:14   - Yeah, there's something there, right?

01:05:17   Like it's like cooking something.

01:05:19   - Tim and Eddie do Europe?

01:05:21   - That'll work for me.

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01:07:47   It is time for some #AskUpgradeQuestions.

01:07:53   Today we start with Cameron who says,

01:07:55   "Jason, was there a testing mode

01:07:57   for the iPhone satellite communication feature

01:08:00   made available to reviewers?"

01:08:02   - No, but this is not,

01:08:05   'cause the feature's not out yet.

01:08:07   I wonder though, if when they turn this feature on

01:08:12   in a software update, if there will be something

01:08:17   for us to test it as reviewers, right?

01:08:19   Something that's allowed so that we're not, you know,

01:08:22   doing fake emergency reports.

01:08:24   So my guess is that that may happen,

01:08:27   that they may actually contact a bunch of reviewers

01:08:29   and say, here is how you can test this.

01:08:31   - Maybe there's like a period of time

01:08:35   where like they know that any of these calls aren't real

01:08:39   or whatever.

01:08:40   - Right, or there's a certain thing we can do

01:08:42   to do a test that is not there for regular people,

01:08:47   but we know where it is, we know what to tap or whatever.

01:08:51   I think they would be smart to do that, right?

01:08:53   When they're rolling it out.

01:08:55   Basically that's another story saying Apple activates this.

01:08:57   And so as a part of that, they get people,

01:09:00   also because you don't want everybody,

01:09:03   but you certainly don't want the people

01:09:05   who are trying to report on this

01:09:06   to clog actual emergency lines.

01:09:09   So we'll see, but not yet, right?

01:09:12   'Cause that feature's not in there yet.

01:09:14   - Right, yeah, I didn't actually know

01:09:17   it wasn't available yet.

01:09:18   I mean, because this is not available in the UK at all for the foreseeable future, right?

01:09:25   Like we don't know how long it will be.

01:09:26   I kind of just like had written it off in my mind like I hadn't really thought about

01:09:29   the feature.

01:09:30   I, because I know that the car crash detection, like that is available now.

01:09:36   But so like I kind of just put those two things together in my brain, but obviously it's not

01:09:40   available now.

01:09:41   Okay.

01:09:42   I reckon they will do it, give you some kind of way to do it or you know, because it feels

01:09:48   like that's an important part of talking about the feature. You've got to be able to try

01:09:51   and use it.

01:09:53   Whether they know, like, is every reviewer going to get it or are they going to go to

01:09:57   like five reviewers and say, "Here's a thing you can do." I don't know that part, but it

01:10:00   would be smart if they did.

01:10:02   Yeah, and that might be just like a complexity thing, right, that they might have to just

01:10:07   pick a few people and, you know, so they're not making them. I don't know, because it

01:10:11   feels like it might be complicated. Who knows? Anyway, Sean asks, "Jason, can you help me

01:10:14   choose between the Kobo Clara HD and the Kobo Clara 2? Well these are ebook

01:10:21   readers. I don't think I have the Kobo Clara. Oh, okay. It's not one of the ones that I have.

01:10:32   It doesn't have buttons. I'm a strong proponent of page turn buttons and

01:10:37   that's why I think that if you can get the Kobo Libra, it's better.

01:10:43   It's got buttons.

01:10:44   Libra 2 is the one that's the current version.

01:10:46   They're both pretty close.

01:10:47   The only real difference between them is that

01:10:49   the Libra 2 has USB-C and the Libra has micro USB.

01:10:54   So USB-C is better just because you've got those cables

01:10:59   around somewhere and can find them faster.

01:11:02   But I would go with that over the Clara

01:11:05   even though it's more expensive

01:11:06   because I'm a big believer in page turn buttons.

01:11:09   I haven't tried the Clara, so I can't actually review it.

01:11:12   That's their lower end one.

01:11:14   I'm such a believer in physical page turn buttons

01:11:16   that I don't really like or want to use those.

01:11:20   And I didn't get the,

01:11:22   I got the higher end ones when I was reviewing these.

01:11:25   So I haven't, I don't have a,

01:11:26   my choice there is look at, I mean,

01:11:31   I don't know the difference between the HD and the two.

01:11:35   My guess is that it's not particularly great.

01:11:37   I think the Clara 2 is the one that's current.

01:11:39   So get one with buttons.

01:11:43   That's essentially my review.

01:11:44   I should also say the Kindle software

01:11:49   is better than it used to be.

01:11:50   The Kindle software is not necessarily as good

01:11:53   as the Kobo software,

01:11:54   but it used to be a much wider gap than it is now.

01:11:57   So you could also look at the Kindle Paperwhite,

01:12:00   which is comparable.

01:12:01   And the software, like I said,

01:12:05   is a lot better than it used to be.

01:12:06   So Kindles are also acceptable.

01:12:08   the Paperwhite's a pretty good deal.

01:12:10   But right now my ebook reader of choice

01:12:13   is the Kobo Libra 2.

01:12:15   I like the size, I like the price.

01:12:18   It's like more than $100 cheaper than the Kindle Oasis,

01:12:23   which is the cheapest Kindle

01:12:25   that has physical page turn buttons.

01:12:27   And does it feel $100 cheaper?

01:12:30   Yeah, I mean, it's all plastic,

01:12:31   but otherwise it's the same and it's cheaper.

01:12:35   So it depends on how much money you wanna pay

01:12:38   for one of these, but Libra is my favorite right now.

01:12:40   - Tyler asks, I haven't heard it discussed

01:12:44   as much as the bigger features,

01:12:46   but the sound that the iPhone makes

01:12:48   when you ping it from your watch has changed of iOS 16.

01:12:52   What do you think of the new sound

01:12:53   and do you use the feature often?

01:12:55   So this is when you can use the watch

01:12:56   and you can have it make the noise, right?

01:12:58   You know what I'm talking about?

01:12:59   Like when you wanna find your phone?

01:13:01   - Yeah, I'm not used to it, but I don't really have an,

01:13:04   I don't care beyond that.

01:13:07   Hopefully it's more audible.

01:13:09   It seems, it's just different.

01:13:12   - The new sound is nicer, I think.

01:13:14   I found the old sound to be quite like piercing,

01:13:18   and the new one I find to be a more pleasant noise

01:13:21   than the old one.

01:13:22   - I guess the question is, is that what you want?

01:13:25   Do you want piercing?

01:13:27   - I can give you a demo of what the new one sounds like,

01:13:30   which is this. - Okay.

01:13:32   (piano music)

01:13:35   - It is more pleasant, isn't it?

01:13:36   - Yeah, it's much more pleasant.

01:13:38   I don't know if it helps you find it more or less,

01:13:41   but I expect they've probably done some work on that, right?

01:13:46   That like it's, you know, it's probably good enough.

01:13:50   But I do use this feature a lot.

01:13:52   It is a feature in my house,

01:13:53   which if you ever hear this sound,

01:13:55   you get to laugh at the other person.

01:13:57   So me and Adina have this.

01:13:59   - True. - Like, it's funny.

01:14:01   'cause if you've heard that noise,

01:14:03   something bad's happened, you've looked

01:14:05   and you can't find it now.

01:14:06   - Can't find it.

01:14:07   - And so that there is something funny about that for sure.

01:14:10   But yeah, I'm very happy that that feature exists.

01:14:13   And I'm happy now that they seem to be making more devices.

01:14:18   So we would talk, me and Jason

01:14:19   would talk about this before the show.

01:14:21   We both haven't been able to use AirPods Pro yet.

01:14:24   Like I think we'll probably have something to say

01:14:26   about those next week.

01:14:27   Mine, I think have arrived today.

01:14:29   I haven't at home, so I haven't been able to use them yet.

01:14:33   But I'm happy they're adding more functionality

01:14:37   to the case, so right, the case is findable.

01:14:40   More findable than it was before.

01:14:42   'Cause like just over the weekend,

01:14:43   I had to, I couldn't find my AirPods.

01:14:45   And I'd left them in my trouser pocket

01:14:48   and put my trousers in the laundry basket,

01:14:49   which is why I couldn't find them.

01:14:51   And I was using the old AirPods Pro

01:14:55   kind of like finding system, which is with Bluetooth.

01:14:57   And it's not very good.

01:14:59   I'm like walking around the whole house

01:15:01   until it says it's near, but that's all it can tell me.

01:15:04   It's just like, hey, it's near.

01:15:06   But now I'm expecting it to be better.

01:15:07   Plus I could have it make noise,

01:15:09   which I'm actually pretty excited about the new case.

01:15:11   So that'd be cool.

01:15:12   - Yeah, next week we'll have more to say

01:15:15   about those, I suspect.

01:15:16   - Ryan's asking a question,

01:15:18   which I don't have an answer for,

01:15:20   but I actually do need this answer.

01:15:22   So I'm gonna ask it and then maybe you

01:15:24   or another Upgrading can help me.

01:15:27   Ryan asks why does the Apple Watch have a separate set of alarms from the iPhone? I

01:15:33   like to use Siri to set the alarms, but I keep getting different results based on whether

01:15:37   I spoke to my phone or my watch. Is there any way I can force them to be in sync?

01:15:43   Now the one thing I'll add to this Jason, I believe that the Apple Watch always alerts

01:15:50   you to an iPhone alarm, but it's not the other way around. And this is the same with

01:15:54   timers too. Like if you set a timer on the iPhone it will go off on the iPhone and your

01:15:59   watch. You set a timer on the watch it just goes off on your watch. Now, I mean one of

01:16:05   the reasons I noticed that recently is I wish that the live activity would show up on my

01:16:08   iPhone if I set it on my watch as a timer. Now the reason I want to know the answer to

01:16:14   this question is Adina just got a Series 8 and is now wearing it at night so she can

01:16:20   do the temperature stuff, right? So she can like be checking her temperature because that's

01:16:24   That's one of the features you have to wear at night.

01:16:27   But now she is annoyed about the way

01:16:28   that her alarm is going off.

01:16:30   And it seems like some mornings she's telling me

01:16:32   that it's just going off on her wrist,

01:16:33   but she'd like it to go off on the phone.

01:16:35   And so basically I want to know,

01:16:37   does anybody know of a way to get them both to go off,

01:16:40   the watch and the phone?

01:16:43   Do you know, have any idea about this?

01:16:44   I never have worn mine to sleep.

01:16:46   - So I don't know about the sleep tracking and the syncing.

01:16:51   My guess is that Apple, and I think they're right here,

01:16:55   but the idea is if I set an alarm on my watch,

01:17:00   I don't expect my phone to make noise, right?

01:17:06   I don't expect that.

01:17:07   I expect it to just be my watch.

01:17:10   It's interesting the other way, right?

01:17:13   I think the idea there is that your watch is always with you

01:17:15   so if you're not near your phone and the alarm goes off,

01:17:18   the watch will warn you that there's an alarm happening

01:17:22   back on your phone.

01:17:23   And I think that's the philosophy there, right?

01:17:26   I don't know about being able to choose

01:17:29   to sync them back and forth,

01:17:31   but like, I think if anything you said,

01:17:33   anything you said on the Apple Watch

01:17:35   stays on the Apple Watch,

01:17:38   I think is the just by default, that's the idea there.

01:17:41   - Yeah, we've been having some questions in my house

01:17:45   that have yet to be answered yet

01:17:46   as to whether the phone is also going off.

01:17:49   This is, you know, like one of the things

01:17:50   where it's like, you're just not 100% sure.

01:17:52   So I think we need to be doing some more testing

01:17:56   on that one, I think.

01:17:57   And Sims asks, are there any current Macs

01:18:01   you wish were available of a different Apple Silicon chip?

01:18:04   - Hmm, with a different Apple Silicon chip.

01:18:08   - So this can be one that doesn't currently have one,

01:18:11   of which there aren't many now,

01:18:13   or there is a Mac already has an Apple Silicon chip in it,

01:18:17   but you would like it to have something other

01:18:19   than what it currently has.

01:18:20   - Well, the glaring one is that the M1 iMac

01:18:23   doesn't come in a higher end M1 chip.

01:18:25   - That's what I have, an iMac with a Pro chip.

01:18:28   That's what I would like to see.

01:18:29   - I think that's the big one.

01:18:31   And then obviously a Mac Mini for the same reason.

01:18:35   Like I really wish there was a desktop Mac

01:18:38   that had the M1 Pro in it, right?

01:18:41   because like the Mac Studio has the Macs or the Ultra.

01:18:45   And then the iMac and the Mac Mini have the M1,

01:18:49   but there's nothing in that middle ground of the Pro,

01:18:54   which would be nice to have.

01:18:56   I'm hoping that this will get rectified this month, but.

01:19:01   - Ah, I think next year, right?

01:19:03   I feel like before the iMac.

01:19:05   - Yeah, but the Mac Mini.

01:19:06   - Oh, sorry, the Mac Mini, yes.

01:19:08   Could do. - Right?

01:19:09   - Right, could do.

01:19:10   We'll see. But that was my thinking is that they'll replace that Intel Mac Mini that's still kicking around with a version with a more robust chip in it. But we'll see. I don't know.

01:19:21   If you would like to send in a question for us to answer in a future episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or use ?AskUpgrade in the Relay FM members Discord. We would very much appreciate your questions.

01:19:34   Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade.

01:19:36   Thanks to CleanMyMac X, Memberfort and Squarespace for sponsoring the show.

01:19:41   And thank you for listening and especially if you support us with Upgrade Plus.

01:19:45   Go to GetUpgradePlus.com and you can sign up, get ad-free longer episodes of the show

01:19:49   and you will help support us as well, which we greatly appreciate.

01:19:52   If you want to find Jason online, go to SixColors.com

01:19:55   and he is @JasonO on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L.

01:19:58   And I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:20:02   We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:20:06   Goodbye, everybody.

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