426: Splash Hit!


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00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:03   - From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 426.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by DoorDash,

00:00:15   ZokDok, Rogue Amoeba, and New Relic.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:20   Hi, Jason.

00:00:21   - Hi, Myke, are you home now?

00:00:23   - Sure am.

00:00:24   - Oh, good, that's good.

00:00:25   Welcome back. - That's good.

00:00:26   Thank you.

00:00:28   The time in the evening, you know, it's not so good.

00:00:31   I liked recording it that one time we did it in the morning.

00:00:33   You know, that was nice.

00:00:34   I liked doing that. - Yeah.

00:00:36   - You know, back in the evening again.

00:00:38   And I have a #snowtalk question.

00:00:41   It comes from Will.

00:00:42   Will wants to know, Jason,

00:00:44   is there a more beautiful baseball park, ballpark,

00:00:47   than Oracle Park?

00:00:48   I'm not even a Giants fan,

00:00:50   but I'll watch Giants home games

00:00:51   just to see the baseball on the waterfront.

00:00:54   - Hey, Will.

00:00:56   I think you're right,

00:00:58   although it's very hard for me to judge

00:01:00   'cause that's the ballpark I've been to the most

00:01:02   of any ballpark.

00:01:03   But I would say it's my favorite.

00:01:07   Is there a more beautiful ballpark than Oracle Park?

00:01:09   I will recommend a couple.

00:01:11   PNC Park in Pittsburgh is beautiful.

00:01:14   And also on the water, it's on the river in Pittsburgh.

00:01:18   And Petco Park in San Diego is great.

00:01:21   It doesn't have the water view,

00:01:22   but it's right there on the water and San Diego is awesome.

00:01:25   So those are my other, I'd say two favorites right now.

00:01:29   There are lots of nice ballparks

00:01:31   and lots of kind of boring ballparks,

00:01:33   but it used to be that baseball parks were bad

00:01:35   and then they build a bunch of good ones.

00:01:36   So that's good if you're a baseball fan wherever you live,

00:01:39   because I think almost, you know, sorry Oakland.

00:01:43   Sorry Tampa, but otherwise everybody's doing great.

00:01:49   - I don't know the Oakland and Tampa violence, but.

00:01:52   Tampa has a dome that is was made a long time ago and so you're watching baseball inside

00:01:58   on with weird catwalks and stuff like that and it's generally considered bad and Oakland

00:02:04   it's just very old and they took a good stadium and they ruined it and now they're not maintaining

00:02:07   it because they want a new stadium so it's getting progressively worse it's a sad situation

00:02:12   and I feel for the fans of Oakland because their owners are terrible yeah there's a little

00:02:17   baseball talk there Myke I know you I know you're you know getting into American sports

00:02:21   now. I've only seen a MLB game at Citi Field. That's where I went to, which is the Mets

00:02:29   game. I haven't been to Citi Field. I went to the old Shea Stadium, but I have not been

00:02:34   to Citi Field yet. I went to both of the New York stadiums and then they tore them down

00:02:40   and replaced them with new ones that I haven't been to, so I guess I'm gonna have to go back

00:02:43   to New York sometime. Yeah, very helpful to replace those. I was looking at some pictures

00:02:48   of Oracle Park today when I was picking this question. And I thought it did look very nice.

00:02:54   I've driven past it. I've been in that area a bunch of times in San Francisco. And that

00:02:59   looks like a great place to watch a baseball game, I will say.

00:03:02   Yeah, it's beautiful.

00:03:03   If they hit a home run, could they hit it into the water? Or is that too far?

00:03:09   It's called a splash hit, Myke. And yes, they've hit a couple hundred in there, yeah.

00:03:13   Yes, splash hit?

00:03:15   Splash hit.

00:03:16   Wow, it's got its own name.

00:03:17   It does. There's a little sign that counts how many the Giants have hit. It's at like

00:03:22   96 or something now, and then the opposing team doesn't count for that, but they've also

00:03:25   hit about that many, so like I said, it's about 200.

00:03:28   So, splash hits only occur at Oracle Park?

00:03:33   Uh, no, although they occur most often at Oracle Park, and it's got to be on the fly.

00:03:39   You can also bounce it in.

00:03:40   It could occur anywhere if you hit it hard enough.

00:03:43   Hard enough, yeah. You could just need the nearest body of water. However, most bodies

00:03:47   of water are not that close. Did they do it in Cincinnati or maybe it was in Pittsburgh?

00:03:54   There's one place where I saw that they actually did do it where it hit into the river and

00:03:59   that was very impressive because that's extremely hard to do there. It's kind of hard. You got

00:04:04   to be a left-handed hitter basically and hit it right down the line to get it out into

00:04:07   the water on the fly into McCovey Cove which is the name of the little water out there.

00:04:14   they've done it yeah a couple hundred times it's pretty cool. Baseball fans are

00:04:18   gonna be very happy with today's episode because I also have a baseball relay to

00:04:21   ask upgrade for you later on. It's like Christmas morning, fantastic. I love it.

00:04:27   I mean or opening day I guess. It's more like opening day I feel like. Okay that is the

00:04:31   Christmas morning of baseball. Open the gate, roll out the baseballs. Here we go.

00:04:34   That's what everybody does. If you would like to send in a question for us to open a future

00:04:38   episode of upgrade just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snailtalk or use

00:04:42   question marks and I'll talk in the relay FM members discord. And a little real

00:04:46   time follow-up a listener Chris pointing out that there is a swimming pool outside

00:04:51   the the fence in Arizona. Okay. That's not as exciting to hit it into a swimming

00:04:56   pool but it is kind of fun to hit the ball into the swimming pool and they do

00:05:00   hit home runs into the swimming pool there. There you go. You know just baseball's

00:05:05   landing in water it's great. Splash hit. Yep. Oh this will be the last time

00:05:11   this month that we encourage Upgradients to go to donate to St. Jude Children's

00:05:16   Research Hospital as we are fast approaching the end of September.

00:05:21   Oh yeah. I am absolutely thrilled to say that we have met and exceeded our goal

00:05:28   that we set for ourselves this year which was just shy of $495,000.

00:05:32   As we record this episode we have raised $514,785 for the kids of St. Jude.

00:05:39   What that means Jason is over the last four years the relay FM community has

00:05:44   come together and raised over two million dollars now for the kids of St.

00:05:48   Jude which is an absolutely incredible thing and it's a number that I struggle

00:05:55   to conceive of at this point you know it's like it's such a large number like

00:05:58   two million dollars so incredible and I am I am and we are we all are so

00:06:05   thankful for the support of our listeners to raise these incredible

00:06:10   amounts of money for the kids of St. Jude and this is for a very incredibly

00:06:15   good cause because St. Jude Children's Research Hospital has a simple mission

00:06:19   which is finding cures and saving children because cancer kills more

00:06:23   children under the age of 14 than any other disease. It is a horrible thing and

00:06:27   with the work of St. Jude they are both treating children who have these

00:06:31   life threatening diseases but also developing research and developing trials and cures to

00:06:40   tackle childhood cancer. For example in 2021 they created a clinical trial which reported

00:06:47   more than 20 point improvement in survival rates for high risk neuroblastoma, the second

00:06:52   most common solid tumour in children, using an antibody produced at St Jude and then share

00:06:58   this research of the whole world.

00:07:25   In Childhood Cancer Awareness Month it is an opportunity in September for us to come

00:07:28   together to fight against childhood cancer because together we can make a big impact.

00:07:32   So I will still urge you to go to stgeo.org/relay where you can donate.

00:07:37   If you donate $60 or more you will receive a digital bundle which has a wallpaper, a

00:07:41   Mac OS screensaver pack wonderfully created by Mr James Thompson of Peacock fame which

00:07:46   is just unbelievable.

00:07:47   I can't wait for people to get these.

00:07:50   I think it will just be a couple of weeks now and people will start getting the Mac

00:07:53   OS screensaver.

00:07:54   I actually want to on Friday me and Steven are going to be doing a final total celebration

00:08:01   stream so it's going to be on Friday September 30th at 12pm US Eastern time.

00:08:06   We're going to hang out and play some games and close the fundraising campaign.

00:08:10   We've never done this before.

00:08:11   Usually we just close it and celebrate in like a Discord chat between us and the people

00:08:15   at St. Jude but we actually did say we're going to close it and announce the final total.

00:08:19   On that stream I'm going to show the screensaver.

00:08:23   So if you've been wanting to see what it looks like in all of its incredible glory,

00:08:28   I'm gonna find a way to show some of it on the, with some, you know, really good DRM.

00:08:32   I don't know how I'm gonna do that, you know, DRM it.

00:08:35   I basically, I'm just gonna show you what my laptop looks like running on.

00:08:38   So I want people to see it, but people are gonna freak out when they see this thing,

00:08:42   it's so good.

00:08:43   All right, Myke, I direct your attention to the live Relay FM page of top donors to see

00:08:50   see my official on-air $1,000 donation.

00:08:55   - Woo, look at Jason's snow. - TV relay campaign.

00:08:57   Did it just now.

00:08:58   Been waiting, been biding my time.

00:09:00   I was traveling and was not able to sneak in there

00:09:04   and put you over any of your milestones.

00:09:09   So I just decided I'm doing it on upgrade.

00:09:12   - Doing it live.

00:09:13   - So there it is.

00:09:14   I can't get high up on the leaderboard,

00:09:17   but I can push it up by a thousand.

00:09:19   So now $453,713, amazing.

00:09:24   - That's on the relay campaign.

00:09:26   So this is like that whole thing,

00:09:28   but then including all of the sub campaigns,

00:09:30   which people set up throughout the month,

00:09:33   which is incredible.

00:09:34   The hundreds of people that set up their own campaigns.

00:09:37   That's how we have gotten to 515,000.

00:09:39   It's something that like didn't know

00:09:41   how that was gonna go this year

00:09:42   and could not be more thrilled at the many listeners.

00:09:47   But I'm giving, I'm not doing one of those campaigns.

00:09:49   I'm just doing it straight into Relay FM.

00:09:52   - So we're now at $515,785.

00:09:55   - You're welcome.

00:09:56   Boom.

00:09:57   - So, stgeo.org/relay and don't forget to join us

00:10:00   on Friday, September 30th at 12 p.m. U of C Eastern time.

00:10:04   We'll hang out, play some games

00:10:05   and we'll close the fundraising campaign together.

00:10:07   Thank you so much to everybody

00:10:08   for the support throughout the month.

00:10:11   Apple Watch Ultra, I wanted to do a bit of follow out

00:10:15   to this, you don't have one, right?

00:10:18   - I do not, alas.

00:10:20   - And I don't have one, Steven has one,

00:10:23   'cause he bought one, and we're gonna talk about that

00:10:27   on Connected this week.

00:10:29   So I don't think, I was not planning on bringing it up

00:10:31   on today's episode, 'cause I don't have any opinions.

00:10:33   I still wanna go to an Apple store and try one on,

00:10:37   but I'm not, you know, it's not gonna be a thing

00:10:40   that I think we're gonna talk about

00:10:41   in a lot of detail on the show, so.

00:10:43   - Yeah, they sent me a Series 8, which is weird,

00:10:45   'cause the Series 8, there's almost nothing to say about it.

00:10:47   - Yeah.

00:10:48   - And I would love to try out the Ultra,

00:10:53   because I think it's the interesting product, right?

00:10:56   But I'm looking forward to hearing

00:10:58   what Steven's got to say about it.

00:11:00   - It's been really interesting as people are getting them,

00:11:02   'cause they started arriving on Friday, right?

00:11:04   And I feel like I was seeing way more people

00:11:08   on like Twitter and Instagram and stuff with it

00:11:11   than I was expecting.

00:11:13   Like it really feels like, and I get it,

00:11:15   like people like they want it,

00:11:16   it's the new big fancy watch.

00:11:19   Like people that I know that aren't like rock climbers

00:11:22   in my life, you know, getting one of these things.

00:11:25   - Yeah, exactly.

00:11:26   - It looks cool.

00:11:27   - All the rock climbers in your life.

00:11:28   - The thing that I, from the images that I've seen,

00:11:31   the thing that seems visually most interesting to me

00:11:33   is the flat screen.

00:11:34   Like there's something about that that looks way cooler

00:11:37   than I was expecting.

00:11:39   probably just 'cause it's different.

00:11:41   - Yeah, I mean, it's the biggest design change

00:11:45   to an Apple Watch, right?

00:11:47   Yeah, I don't know.

00:11:49   I'm curious about it.

00:11:51   I've heard some people report that the problem is

00:11:53   that there's no guard on the action button,

00:11:55   so you can hit the action button by mistake a lot.

00:11:58   - Interesting. - It's kind of funny.

00:11:59   They guarded the other buttons, but not that one.

00:12:01   But I don't know, I'm curious.

00:12:03   I think the action button's very interesting

00:12:05   in terms of software and user interface

00:12:07   in a way that we haven't really had before,

00:12:09   and I wonder, as we've speculated about,

00:12:11   if it might be coming to the rest of the Apple Watches

00:12:13   at some point, have an extra button,

00:12:15   but that they did it here first.

00:12:17   But we'll see how useful it actually is

00:12:20   and how good it is and how software is, you know,

00:12:23   built to take advantage of it.

00:12:25   - Got some follow up for you.

00:12:27   - Okay. - On my iPhone setup.

00:12:29   So, - Yes.

00:12:32   - Lasted with it a few more days after we spoke.

00:12:35   You know, if you remember, I had a very bad experience

00:12:38   with transferring my iPhone.

00:12:41   I don't know exactly what happened.

00:12:43   I did the device-to-device transfer,

00:12:45   and it was really bad, and I wasn't signed

00:12:47   into any applications, really.

00:12:49   And a bunch of settings and apps got all messed up.

00:12:51   I actually heard from a bunch of upgradients

00:12:53   who had similarly frustrating iPhone transfers.

00:12:57   Also, those that went perfect.

00:12:58   Really, I feel like this is one of those things

00:13:00   that's like a luck of the draw.

00:13:02   But I think what I have learned from this experience

00:13:05   is if it doesn't work, do it again, right?

00:13:09   Which is what you recommended I do,

00:13:11   and I did it in the end.

00:13:12   I got home from my travels,

00:13:15   and I had some issues with my eSIM,

00:13:19   which was nothing to do with the iPhone being from America.

00:13:24   I was having some issues with my carrier.

00:13:27   My carrier's not ready for the eSIM at large, I feel like.

00:13:32   People can have them now,

00:13:34   but the idea of everybody just all of a sudden needing eSIMs

00:13:37   it's not needed here, right?

00:13:39   So there was just something weird on my account

00:13:41   where like it just, it wouldn't load the ability

00:13:45   for me to change the eSIM over.

00:13:48   And I spoke to them and they were like,

00:13:50   give us a couple of days.

00:13:51   And then like three or four days later, it worked.

00:13:54   And I did the transfer and it went flawlessly.

00:13:57   But I think they need, maybe it was just like turned off

00:13:59   on my account or something.

00:14:03   I don't know why, like, oh, it just was never enabled.

00:14:06   This is a plan I've had for like 10 years.

00:14:08   So, you know, who knows?

00:14:10   At some point they just never did it, right?

00:14:12   That actually, by the way, makes today

00:14:14   my first full day of using the 14 Pro Max

00:14:18   as my actual phone phone.

00:14:20   'Cause I just got the transfer done yesterday.

00:14:24   But anyway, so I did that,

00:14:27   but I decided to go the Jason Snow route

00:14:30   and I restored again from iCloud.

00:14:33   I just started over and it worked perfectly, basically.

00:14:38   Within the range of what I would expect, right?

00:14:43   Some apps I had to sign into again,

00:14:45   which you always do, right?

00:14:47   Like all of my Slacks get signed out of,

00:14:49   which might be because I'm on the Slack page, I don't know,

00:14:51   but I get signed out of everything.

00:14:52   And I have to re-authenticate a bunch of things,

00:14:55   but it was way within the remit that I expected.

00:14:59   Also when I signed into some applications again,

00:15:02   it wasn't like, "Oh, hi, we've never heard of you before,"

00:15:05   right, which is what I was getting

00:15:06   from a lot of my applications.

00:15:08   - Right, because that data hadn't synced, right?

00:15:11   That data was not, because you had an imperfect restore

00:15:15   that was missing data.

00:15:17   And, well, that's good.

00:15:19   My people swear by the device-device transfer,

00:15:24   and I think that there are reasons why it's probably good,

00:15:28   but the fact is it can fail,

00:15:33   and then you're left with an impartial,

00:15:38   or not impartial, an imperfect restore, a partial restore,

00:15:42   and that's not good.

00:15:45   And it also locks up both devices for a very long time.

00:15:50   And that's why I prefer the iCloud restore.

00:15:55   And the argument is yes,

00:15:56   but the device to device restore is a more perfect thing

00:16:01   where you don't have to log in.

00:16:02   Like I get it.

00:16:03   I guess what I would say is all of the restorers

00:16:07   have some stuff where you're gonna have to re-log in, right?

00:16:09   You can't escape all of it.

00:16:11   Some stuff you have to re-log in anyway.

00:16:14   And I don't find the iCloud restore to be

00:16:18   that much more onerous than the regular restore.

00:16:21   And the advantage of the iCloud restore is

00:16:23   your devices are yours again very quickly,

00:16:27   even though they're not entirely usable right away

00:16:30   because they're still restoring over iCloud,

00:16:32   they're back in a usable state

00:16:34   where you could make a phone call or something

00:16:36   if you need to, or set up some settings.

00:16:39   So, yeah, and that's why I prefer the iCloud restore.

00:16:43   - Yeah, I hope I can remember,

00:16:45   or maybe Upgradients can remind me.

00:16:47   iCloud has worked well for me every other time

00:16:52   as it did this time, I'm just gonna do that.

00:16:54   Because what I like about the iCloud restore is,

00:16:57   within 15 minutes, I can at least start poking around.

00:17:00   - Exactly, that's one of the great things about it

00:17:03   is that you're not left sort of with this.

00:17:05   So, Julian did, to his new phone,

00:17:08   he did the device to device restore.

00:17:10   And it was like five hours and it still said it was,

00:17:15   it got stuck on like three hours remaining

00:17:17   and it didn't change, which was really annoying.

00:17:20   And we went out to dinner and we came back

00:17:21   and was still doing it.

00:17:22   And I basically, I forget what I did

00:17:24   to sort of jog it into action, but it came back

00:17:27   and I think it was actually done

00:17:28   and it had hung up on the end

00:17:31   because it didn't look like he was missing anything.

00:17:34   But it was, you know, he was without his old phone

00:17:37   and his new phone for hours while that was going on.

00:17:41   And that's, I mean, I don't like it.

00:17:45   I don't like that approach.

00:17:46   I get why people might do it.

00:17:47   And then there's the iTunes backup approach

00:17:49   which requires you to do an iTunes backup

00:17:51   which I'm not a fan of that either.

00:17:55   So it's like-

00:17:56   - Is it in the finder now?

00:17:58   - It is in the finder.

00:17:58   Yeah, well, yeah.

00:17:59   'Cause there's no iTunes anymore, at least on the Mac.

00:18:02   So yeah, it's a, and that is, can be kind of shaky.

00:18:06   Kind of, there are a lot of quirks there.

00:18:08   Again, it's not that it doesn't work because if it works,

00:18:11   it will do a full restore and that's great,

00:18:14   but there are lots of cases where it doesn't work.

00:18:17   - Yeah, I'm happy now I'm all set up again

00:18:19   and I'm never going to doubt you or iCloud ever again.

00:18:22   - Okay, thank you.

00:18:23   I'm glad we got there.

00:18:25   I have some follow-up about my Apple Watch,

00:18:28   which I said last week, I was like,

00:18:30   "Oh, my Apple Watch is fine.

00:18:32   It just came right over, bloop, bloop, no problem."

00:18:35   And then I said,

00:18:37   but I think I said I had a connectivity issue

00:18:39   where it was like,

00:18:40   "Well, why is it not connecting to cellular?"

00:18:41   And it was sporadically not connecting to cellular

00:18:44   and that was weird.

00:18:45   It turns out that what also happened is I was actually in a zombie Apple Watch state where it actually wasn't a successful transfer and it ended up in the famous, I know Marco mentioned this on ATP last week, the famous, the Apple Watch thinks it's fine, but no phones will admit to being connected to it.

00:19:11   My old phone isn't connected to it.

00:19:13   My new phone is like, would you like to set up an Apple watch?

00:19:16   And I'm like, well, wait a second.

00:19:17   I thought I transferred my Apple watch over here.

00:19:19   Ah, and so I had to reset my Apple watch and repair it and restore it from a backup.

00:19:27   That was from the day I got the phone.

00:19:30   And, uh, then it went back and, and it works fine now, more or less like there

00:19:37   were some, again, some defaults that got changed where I'd be like, oh yes, please.

00:19:41   put the apps in a list and you know I don't want to get a notification for this and you

00:19:45   need to add these apps back to the watch and that's not my favorite but I got there but

00:19:51   anyway my successful Apple Watch transfer was actually not successful it also ended

00:19:56   up in this weird in-between state and I had to reset it which was not the best.

00:20:00   It was definitely foreshadowing on last week's episode right when you were like sometimes

00:20:05   it doesn't see the phone but it seems fine I guess in those moments it's just connected

00:20:09   to Wi-Fi right?

00:20:10   The moment that the jig was up is when I was like,

00:20:13   "I need to adjust the setting."

00:20:14   "Oh, that's on the Apple Watch app on the iPhone.

00:20:17   "I guess I need to open that up."

00:20:18   And I opened it up and it said,

00:20:19   "Hey, welcome to Apple Watch.

00:20:21   "Would you like to add an Apple Watch?"

00:20:23   And I thought, "Oh no, like, no, no, you should know.

00:20:26   "We did this, we talked about this."

00:20:28   And it was, and that was when I realized

00:20:31   that the whole thing was a lie.

00:20:33   My Apple Watch was acting cool,

00:20:35   but it actually had no idea what it was doing,

00:20:38   and I had to restore.

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00:21:36   When we were in Memphis, we just bought Ash a ton.

00:21:39   There was a lot of interesting hours we were working, we were at St. Jude for long hours

00:21:43   and some days, and what I didn't want to do was have to go to a restaurant or something,

00:21:47   I just wasn't really feeling it, and so maybe me and Idina would just want to go and relax

00:21:52   at the hotel, and then we could just open door to Ash and order whatever we wanted from

00:21:56   places that we had tried before, places that we hadn't, and it just made it really easy

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00:22:46   It's time for a rumor round up Jason Snow.

00:22:49   Oh great, bring it on.

00:22:51   So I have an iPhone 14 demand update from a friend of the show Ming-Chi Kuo.

00:22:59   Ming-Chi Kuo posted this on Medium, so it's like a post which you can see on Medium because

00:23:05   he does have a Medium page as well as a Twitter account now, which I like.

00:23:10   I love that Ming-Chi Kuo was like, "Okay, I'm tired of people getting my subscription

00:23:16   analyst reports in Chinese to my clients and translating them into English and reporting

00:23:22   them in the press. So I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to put things out there

00:23:27   and including in English on my Medium blog and my Twitter account. Great. It's great.

00:23:33   Just go to the source.

00:23:35   And the two kind of interesting pieces of information that me and you were talking about,

00:23:40   'cause you sent me this as well.

00:23:42   One is that iPhone 14 Pro models

00:23:45   will account for 60 to 65% of shipments in H2 of 2022.

00:23:50   And this is based on, so Apple's done it's,

00:23:54   you know, they've spoken to the suppliers

00:23:56   and rejigged their supply chain for like,

00:23:59   what models will be manufactured

00:24:02   in larger quantities and stuff, right?

00:24:03   So they kind of forecast out.

00:24:05   And so now that they've done that

00:24:07   and they've made the changes to the supply chain,

00:24:09   This is what Meechi Kua will now expect that 60 to 65% of iPhone shipments will be the

00:24:16   pro models of some description with the 14 Pro Max accounting for 30 to 35% of total

00:24:23   iPhone 14 shipments across all of the iPhone 14 models that are currently available.

00:24:29   I would guess because there's no way you could know about the Plus because Apple don't

00:24:33   know about that yet.

00:24:34   Can you even pre-order the Plus yet?

00:24:36   I don't think so, right?

00:24:37   I don't know.

00:24:38   - I think that starts in October.

00:24:39   I don't know if it starts shipping in October.

00:24:40   I don't think you can pre-order it yet either.

00:24:41   But anyway, all this to say,

00:24:43   the iPhone 14 Pro Max is the most popular model right now.

00:24:47   That doesn't surprise me, right?

00:24:49   Does it surprise you?

00:24:50   - A little bit, but again, I think the lesson is

00:24:54   that never bet against big phones, right?

00:24:57   Like never, they're not, big phones are not,

00:25:00   we think of them or we could think of them as an outlier,

00:25:03   that it's the other side of the bell curve.

00:25:05   that's not the case, that they are very popular.

00:25:09   And so the idea that the 14 Pro Max is the most popular one,

00:25:12   those of us who don't like big phones

00:25:16   need to be comfortable with the fact that

00:25:18   the general rule is that the bigger the phone,

00:25:20   the more people like it.

00:25:22   And up to a point beyond which Apple has not gone.

00:25:26   So it's not surprising when you think about it that way.

00:25:30   I think the one caveat I would put in here

00:25:32   is this is the second half of this year.

00:25:34   And obviously there are huge sales spikes

00:25:37   in the second half when the new iPhones come out.

00:25:41   I think though, people who buy iPhones in this period

00:25:45   from now to the end of the year tend to be

00:25:49   a little more hardcore as iPhone buyers.

00:25:54   And so I don't wanna overstate it,

00:25:57   but I suspect that the mix is leaning

00:25:59   toward the most expensive products once they're released,

00:26:03   because the people who are super into it are buying them then.

00:26:06   Whereas my guess is that the mix is really different in April,

00:26:11   right, when it's not anybody who's like,

00:26:14   "Oh, the new iPhone, I got to get it."

00:26:15   It's literally somebody who says, "Oh, yeah, my iPhone broke.

00:26:18   I guess I need to go get a new iPhone."

00:26:20   And it's April, so here I am at the Apple Store in April.

00:26:23   -But this is the time where they sell the most iPhones, though, right?

00:26:27   -For sure, for sure.

00:26:28   I mean, there's a spike because it's new iPhones,

00:26:29   and the new iPhone is the biggest motivator,

00:26:31   but they do continue to sell them.

00:26:34   And I think the mix changes,

00:26:35   I suspect the mix changes over time.

00:26:37   - Oh, I have no doubt.

00:26:38   - But right now, they sell the most.

00:26:41   And right now, or just about right now, right?

00:26:46   Like they sell the most in the holiday quarter,

00:26:48   which we're not quite in, I think,

00:26:49   but we're getting very close.

00:26:51   Their quarters don't exactly line up to months,

00:26:52   but they're pretty close.

00:26:54   And so they're getting the next three months, right?

00:26:59   They sell the most.

00:27:00   And even then, I think the mix is probably

00:27:02   a little bit different, but regardless,

00:27:05   the fact is the Pro, their strategy of segmenting

00:27:08   these things into Pro and non-Pro,

00:27:10   it seems to be working in the sense that the Pro

00:27:13   is not some isolated, strange product.

00:27:16   Their most expensive base model is their most popular phone.

00:27:20   That's not an accident.

00:27:21   - Just as a real-time follow-up,

00:27:23   you can order the Plus right now.

00:27:25   - All right. - And it starts shipping

00:27:27   in October.

00:27:27   - You'll get it when you get it.

00:27:29   - Yeah.

00:27:30   looking at it now on the Apple.com website.

00:27:34   It says delivers October 7th.

00:27:37   So that was the date.

00:27:40   So you can still order one now it seems

00:27:42   and it will still arrive on the day they expect it.

00:27:45   - Well, great.

00:27:47   - I never really know what to think particularly

00:27:49   about just general analyst statements,

00:27:54   but I want to bring this one up now

00:27:55   'cause I just thought it was interesting.

00:27:56   JP Morgan, 'cause like Ming-Chi Kuo

00:27:59   seems to have sources that I can tie my head around,

00:28:03   like I can wrap my head around, right?

00:28:05   I feel like I can tie them together.

00:28:06   It's known that he's very connected in the supply chain

00:28:09   and he talks about that in that way.

00:28:12   But then when we talk about JP Morgan analysts,

00:28:15   are they, is this connected to anything

00:28:17   or is it just because they think?

00:28:18   Like, I don't know, right?

00:28:20   I don't know, but anyway.

00:28:22   - It's, right, it would depend on the analyst

00:28:24   and it would depend on their track record

00:28:25   and I would say we don't know.

00:28:27   - The presumption here is that they have sources,

00:28:30   but who knows if they actually have sources.

00:28:32   - And what I also like about Ming-Chi Kuo

00:28:34   is it's a person, right?

00:28:36   I can be like, that's what Ming-Chi Kuo said,

00:28:38   but JP Morgan is like, that's not a person.

00:28:41   (laughs)

00:28:42   You know what I mean? - No.

00:28:43   - There probably was a JP Morgan at some point.

00:28:45   - There was? - But that's not the person

00:28:46   who's talking about iPhones. - He's not around anymore.

00:28:49   - JP Morgan are expecting that by 2025,

00:28:52   25% of iPhone production will be in India,

00:28:56   with 5% of iPhone 14s being made in India

00:29:00   by the end of 2022.

00:29:01   They go on to say that they expect that this 25% figure

00:29:06   will actually end up being the same for other product lines

00:29:09   that Apple makes as they continue to want to diversify

00:29:11   where the products are made.

00:29:13   But like most of this stuff is being made in China,

00:29:15   not entirely, but most, but to the level of 25%

00:29:19   across kind of the whole stuff that they make,

00:29:22   that is a big change.

00:29:24   with the caveat being, I think it's an interesting caveat,

00:29:28   they are still likely to be mostly produced,

00:29:31   if not wholly produced by Foxconn owned factories in India.

00:29:36   - Right.

00:29:37   - So I'm still not sure how diversified that is,

00:29:39   like, 'cause people are talking about like, you know,

00:29:41   what we spoke about in the show before in the past,

00:29:44   one of Apple's biggest risks

00:29:45   that all of their products are made in China

00:29:47   and if they end up having issues with China,

00:29:49   or if there's issues between

00:29:51   the Chinese and American governments,

00:29:52   it could cause a problem for Apple's business.

00:29:54   but Foxconn is a Chinese company.

00:29:57   So is that still an issue for them?

00:29:58   I don't know, but I think it is just good business

00:30:03   for them to be moving their product around

00:30:07   a little bit more than the way it is being done right now,

00:30:10   if they can do it.

00:30:12   - There's a bunch of things going on here, right?

00:30:13   There's the conversation about diversifying Apple

00:30:15   because it's so tied into China.

00:30:17   And although these factories are in India,

00:30:19   their contractor is a Chinese company.

00:30:24   However, the other part of this is geographic diversity.

00:30:29   It's the idea that,

00:30:31   remember when they couldn't make Macs for a while?

00:30:34   Because all the Macs were being assembled

00:30:37   in one region of China?

00:30:40   Like that's part of it too.

00:30:41   So I think that what's going on here is,

00:30:43   both of those things is,

00:30:45   let's not have everything happen in one country.

00:30:47   But also let's not have everything happen in one region,

00:30:51   which is why I wonder about Apple

00:30:53   being more geographically diverse within China

00:30:55   for some of its products, just to kind of keep that separate.

00:30:59   But I think the bigger drive is also to just get

00:31:02   other stuff made in other places

00:31:04   so that if anything happens, right,

00:31:06   they've got a little bit being made in different places.

00:31:10   This is a long process and difficult one and complicated,

00:31:13   and we'll see what they're doing.

00:31:15   But it's interesting to see that they're trying

00:31:17   to get some iPhone production

00:31:18   into some other parts of the world.

00:31:21   I have a mini roundup of what Mark Gurman's newsletter

00:31:25   spoke about this week.

00:31:27   As this is like the bar, you know,

00:31:29   like if you imagine the rumor roundup,

00:31:31   it like occurs within us like a Western town.

00:31:35   The power on newsletter is like a saloon inside of the town

00:31:39   because it's its own thing, right?

00:31:41   - Oh, I wanna make a note of something I said there

00:31:44   that wasn't quite right.

00:31:46   Foxconn technically is Taiwanese,

00:31:50   but they are the largest employer, private employer,

00:31:52   in the People's Republic of China.

00:31:54   So it's not a Chinese company, it's a Taiwanese company,

00:31:58   but it's got lots of employees in China.

00:32:00   So it's, you know, again, I think, I mean,

00:32:03   there's the question of like, what happens

00:32:04   if something happens between China and Taiwan?

00:32:06   But the idea here is it's--

00:32:09   - That is a good clarification to make.

00:32:11   - It is, yes.

00:32:12   It's a company based in Taiwan,

00:32:14   but a huge employer in China and also in other places.

00:32:18   but they also, they trade in China as a Chinese company

00:32:23   and in Taiwan as a Taiwanese company, so.

00:32:25   - Yeah, a lot of interlinking still going on here,

00:32:28   but the larger, I think the larger point is

00:32:30   that assembling things in a factory in India has,

00:32:35   you know, it's spreading it out a little bit.

00:32:37   That's the larger point.

00:32:39   - Yeah, it's like Foxconn also have,

00:32:41   they're building US places,

00:32:43   they have, and they have places in Mexico, Malaysia, Brazil.

00:32:47   - Nevertheless, I think that the issue,

00:32:50   what I was getting, I think kind of remains of like--

00:32:53   - Yes, oh, I agree.

00:32:54   - I'm assuming that the People's Republic of China

00:32:57   could put a lot of pressure on Foxconn if they wanted to.

00:33:00   - And you know, Apple talks about,

00:33:03   like obviously this is politically fraught

00:33:06   and you don't wanna anger China

00:33:08   and make it seem like Apple is abandoning China

00:33:11   or hedging against China,

00:33:12   but there are other ways to pitch this.

00:33:14   One is the geographic diversity.

00:33:16   One is the fact that there are countries

00:33:17   like Brazil and India that want you to build the products

00:33:20   in their countries, otherwise there's a big tariff.

00:33:23   And that gives you some rationale for it.

00:33:26   I feel like there's all sorts of cover that you can have

00:33:31   for increasing where you make your stuff across the world

00:33:37   that makes it seem less like you're hedging against China

00:33:42   or imagining a scenario where you're not building things

00:33:45   in China while that actually sort of is happening

00:33:49   behind the scenes by couching it in other ways.

00:33:53   It's something to just watch.

00:33:54   This is, yeah, super complex stuff and a tough raffle.

00:33:57   And I'd imagine a lot of the stuff that's being built

00:34:00   in China is full of components that are literally

00:34:04   just being shipped from, or from in India,

00:34:07   shipped from China to India to work on it.

00:34:09   So it's not like it's a free supply chain by any means,

00:34:14   but it's something.

00:34:16   All right, let's go into the saloon.

00:34:17   - We're going back into the power on saloon.

00:34:19   So, according to Mark Gurman,

00:34:21   he was predicting there will be no October event.

00:34:24   Mark expects that the rest of this year's product releases

00:34:26   will occur via press release,

00:34:29   with the main focus still being on the Mac and the iPad.

00:34:33   - Yeah, how about that?

00:34:34   I mean, wraps up the upgrade draft championship

00:34:38   for you this year, if that's the case.

00:34:40   - I had not considered that.

00:34:42   I am now in full agreement with Mark

00:34:46   that this should be press releases only.

00:34:50   - So, you know, I read his newsletter

00:34:53   as being a little more equivocal than that,

00:34:55   but it definitely was one of these kind of like,

00:34:58   I don't see how this could be an event.

00:35:00   I see how this could be an event,

00:35:02   because again, a lot of these events are just a video,

00:35:05   but the truth is these could be press releases,

00:35:10   They could be briefings for press in advance of video.

00:35:15   - Let me get it out, I'll read the full quote.

00:35:19   Let me get it here, 'cause I think these things,

00:35:22   they kind of get spoken about backwards

00:35:24   and forwards a little bit.

00:35:25   So I've been thinking a lot lately

00:35:27   about Apple's remaining product releases 2022,

00:35:29   and he lists them, blah, blah, blah.

00:35:31   None of these new products is a major departure for Apple.

00:35:34   They'll get some processifications

00:35:35   and a chip that was already announced

00:35:37   at a formal event in June.

00:35:39   That has me thinking, does Apple really have enough here

00:35:41   to make it worth pulling together

00:35:43   another highly polished launch event?

00:35:45   It seems unlikely.

00:35:47   Apple may ultimately end up feeling differently,

00:35:49   but I think the company as of now

00:35:51   is more likely to release its remaining 2022 products

00:35:53   via press releases, updates to its website,

00:35:56   and briefings to select members of the press,

00:35:58   rather than via a major iPhone style keynote.

00:36:01   - Now, everything he says there is entirely reasonable.

00:36:05   However, I will say, at no point in there

00:36:09   does he say somebody at Apple

00:36:12   suggested any of that is true.

00:36:14   Now, one of the games that one can play

00:36:17   is to get something inside

00:36:21   that they're not allowed to say came from inside.

00:36:25   And it's possible that what he's doing here

00:36:27   is reasoning out loud, but his reasoning is underlied

00:36:32   by something he knows but can't say, right?

00:36:37   Like the idea that like somebody says,

00:36:39   well, look, you know, this can't be coming from Apple,

00:36:43   but I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:36:44   And he's like, oh, well, that informs my thought

00:36:46   that it's not gonna happen.

00:36:47   But if you take it on its surface,

00:36:49   it's Mark spitballing about what he thinks about this event.

00:36:53   I think he's got a point, right?

00:36:55   Which is that if it's Mac Mini,

00:37:00   and really it's the laptops.

00:37:02   And if it's M2 versions of the laptops,

00:37:04   but what they really are is just faster M2 Pro

00:37:07   and Macs versions of the existing laptops

00:37:10   and an iPad update,

00:37:13   and they're all kind of updates of existing products.

00:37:15   Is there an event there?

00:37:17   If that's all there is, I think it's a good question.

00:37:20   If there's, you know, there could be,

00:37:22   MacBook Pro is not, you know, not to be sneezed at,

00:37:27   but in the past,

00:37:28   has released MacBook Pros with no events. They did the big 16-inch MacBook Pro release with

00:37:33   no event. So it could be that they do this via briefings and press releases,

00:37:41   or briefings and a video presentation, right? Like, they could do that. So I just want to say,

00:37:51   though, that Mark Gurman thought about it, and I think analyzing what is known based on a lot of

00:37:58   of his reporting and other people's reporting,

00:38:00   it does feel a little bit scant for an October event,

00:38:03   but what he's not reporting is that his sources

00:38:06   inside Apple say they're not doing an October event.

00:38:09   So that's one of those things where it's like,

00:38:12   I think it's a good possibility that he's right,

00:38:15   but that's not the same as Mark Gurman's sources

00:38:19   tell him they're not doing it.

00:38:21   - Yeah, we can't know for sure, right?

00:38:23   But this is what he is talking about right now.

00:38:26   And I follow his line of thinking

00:38:29   in a certain set of circumstances, right?

00:38:32   Like if basically all that's happening is

00:38:36   the MacBook Pros will get M2 versions of their chips

00:38:40   and the iPad Pros will get M2 chips

00:38:42   with some other small updates,

00:38:44   it might not be like a lot, but you never know.

00:38:48   - Let me give the counter proposal,

00:38:51   which is what if they take all of that stuff,

00:38:53   which includes, he's right, the M2 got unveiled,

00:38:56   but the M2 is not that interesting.

00:38:58   The M2 is interesting, but the Pro and the Macs,

00:39:03   and they're more interesting.

00:39:06   And then we throw in the Mac Pro.

00:39:09   - And you get to reintroduce the world to macOS,

00:39:12   Ventura, and iPadOS 16.1.

00:39:15   - Right. - You can do all of that.

00:39:17   Like, Derek, you can make an event out of all of it.

00:39:21   - Right, so that's my scenario,

00:39:24   is if you wanted to bring in,

00:39:25   So one, if you wanted to bring in that rumored,

00:39:28   fancier external display with these laptops

00:39:31   and the iPad Pro, that wouldn't be a bad time to do it.

00:39:34   Does Mark have a read on the timing of that?

00:39:36   I don't know, he hasn't talked about it in a long time.

00:39:38   Maybe that could be on the agenda and you roll that in

00:39:41   because you could point that out for the iPad

00:39:43   and the Mac at this point.

00:39:44   And then the Mac Pro again,

00:39:47   is not gonna be a product release, right?

00:39:49   And Mark Gurman has reported about the Mac Pro

00:39:53   being in the works, but maybe not ready to go.

00:39:57   But they could announce that thing and boast about it

00:40:00   as part of the context of down in the chip lab

00:40:03   with M2 Pro and Max and Ultra and this thing too.

00:40:07   And this is what we're doing with M2

00:40:08   and lay it all out there and say,

00:40:11   the Mac Pro is coming,

00:40:13   you're gonna be able to pre-order it later this fall.

00:40:17   And it will ship by the end of the year

00:40:18   or ship early next year or whatever.

00:40:20   Like they could do that anytime.

00:40:21   This is not, if they can announce it months in advance

00:40:26   with no penalty, which I think they can,

00:40:28   and they've got an event that is Mac and iPad Pro,

00:40:33   but it's a Mac event and it's toward the end of the year,

00:40:36   and if it's in the window

00:40:38   and it's feeling a little scant on top of it,

00:40:41   and you're also announcing your high-end M2 chips,

00:40:44   like it's not the worst time to do the Mac Pro rollout

00:40:47   and call it an event and have it be,

00:40:49   give the Mac and iPad some love in a dedicated event.

00:40:52   It's not the worst idea in the world.

00:40:54   So not saying they'll do it,

00:40:56   I'm saying that I can think of a scenario

00:40:59   where you're more optimistic than Mark Gurman about this

00:41:03   and where Apple says, "No, we're gonna do something,"

00:41:05   especially if it's fairly low key, right?

00:41:08   Like, again, they could do a video event

00:41:11   with some press briefings

00:41:13   and not have it be the big show that the iPhone event was.

00:41:18   Mark also spoke about Apple Pay Later being pushed back to Spring 2023.

00:41:25   So I know we speak about a bunch of these things now of like Apple Installment Plans

00:41:30   all that kind of stuff.

00:41:31   The Apple Pay Later feature was announced at WWDC.

00:41:34   This is the thing where you can use Apple Pay to split a payment of anything really

00:41:39   into four payments, right?

00:41:41   So I think this is US only to begin.

00:41:43   It's kind of like these services like Klarna and stuff like that.

00:41:46   as I'm hearing there have been fairly significant technical

00:41:49   and engineering challenges in rolling out the service

00:41:52   leading to the delays.

00:41:54   Interestingly, Mark says it will be 16.4.

00:41:57   I'm not exactly sure how he knows it will be 16.4

00:42:02   in the spring, but.

00:42:03   - Well, I mean, he's got somebody who has looked

00:42:05   at the release board that has releases.

00:42:08   - I just found that part so funny.

00:42:11   - Yeah, yeah.

00:42:13   - So 16.4.

00:42:15   - Okay, mark it down.

00:42:16   - There's also doubling down on the idea

00:42:18   that we've been talking about over the last few weeks

00:42:20   of the iPhone 15 Ultra replacing the Pro Max

00:42:25   with the 15 line also including the shift to USB-C

00:42:30   across all of the phones that we've been talking about.

00:42:33   So, Ultra is cool.

00:42:35   - He really likes that idea

00:42:37   and I think the implication there is that maybe

00:42:40   that is a phone that is like the Apple Watch Ultra

00:42:45   appreciably different from the Pro

00:42:50   instead of it just being a larger Pro.

00:42:53   And sounds good, great.

00:42:56   I mean that, yeah, I wonder if that's like,

00:42:59   if it's the camera improvements,

00:43:00   maybe there's a huge camera change

00:43:03   that only fits in the larger model.

00:43:04   I don't know, we'll see, Periscope, maybe.

00:43:08   - But if we take it back around

00:43:09   to the beginning of the rumor roundup,

00:43:11   If the Pro Max is accounting for 30 to 35%

00:43:15   of the current, all of the line,

00:43:19   maybe it's good to give it its own name.

00:43:21   - When it's only differentiated by size,

00:43:23   I'll point out, right?

00:43:24   Imagine what it might happen

00:43:25   if it was also differentiated by features

00:43:27   so people were even more, right?

00:43:30   'Cause you could be like, I only want the best iPhone.

00:43:32   And then you look at the Pro and the Pro Max

00:43:34   and you say, eh, the Pro is still the best iPhone.

00:43:38   That's just a larger version of it.

00:43:40   I'll get that one.

00:43:41   But if you have ultra and it is the best

00:43:43   and it has some of those features, you're like,

00:43:44   "Oh, well then I want that one

00:43:46   because I only want the best iPhone."

00:43:48   Like it's gonna pull people,

00:43:50   even more people up to the high-end iPhone.

00:43:53   And also might let them raise the price.

00:43:54   So, just that too.

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00:45:51   all of Relay FM.

00:45:52   When he says that he means Z.

00:45:55   You know I heard it that time. Cause usually I say Z I think when I'm doing it but that's

00:45:59   just how it went today.

00:46:03   - Let's talk about the iPhone 14 line again.

00:46:05   So you have, I believe by the time this episode

00:46:09   has published, you have published your review

00:46:13   of the iPhone 14s.

00:46:15   - What the world has been waiting for.

00:46:17   - There's no review.

00:46:18   - A review posted much after the release of the product.

00:46:22   Yay.

00:46:23   - So no, I'm gonna give you some credit

00:46:25   'cause I think you're being too hard on yourself.

00:46:27   I said this to you before we started today.

00:46:30   I've read your review, you sent it to me in advance.

00:46:33   And I think it's very good.

00:46:34   And in a way that I know is really hard,

00:46:37   because as you say, right,

00:46:38   like there have been so many reviews now,

00:46:41   and this isn't one of those like,

00:46:43   I've lived with it for six months,

00:46:44   here's re-review kind of thing.

00:46:46   This is eight, no, I've had it for a week,

00:46:48   let me tell you what I think about it.

00:46:49   But I think you bring your unique viewpoint to the phones,

00:46:54   and I think you do a really good job

00:46:55   of breaking down some of the interesting parts of it.

00:46:58   So much so that I wanted to talk about

00:46:59   so many things today,

00:47:00   if you will allow me to.

00:47:01   So one of the things you talk about,

00:47:04   and I think your whole review is framed around

00:47:06   something we've been talking about on the show

00:47:08   for the last couple of weeks,

00:47:09   is this being the perfect example year

00:47:14   of this thing that Apple's been building to for a while

00:47:18   and doing it on and off of like,

00:47:19   no, we're splitting the phone lines.

00:47:21   Like we call them all 14,

00:47:24   but there are big differences between the 14 and the 14 Pro,

00:47:27   the two phones that are in each, right?

00:47:29   - Yes.

00:47:30   you argue that it's good for Apple and good for buyers?

00:47:33   - Well, I think it is good.

00:47:35   It's good for Apple because they're increasing

00:47:37   the potential average selling price of the iPhone.

00:47:40   - And money, money, money, money, money, right?

00:47:41   You know, if you know. - Yeah, it's good.

00:47:43   We know all about it.

00:47:43   The, you know, quarterly results will come out soon

00:47:46   and we'll talk about that again.

00:47:47   But it's also good for buyers in,

00:47:52   I know this is a strange way to phrase this,

00:47:55   but think about it this way.

00:47:56   If you look at the Pro phones and what they have

00:47:59   doesn't interest you or doesn't make a difference,

00:48:01   you can just save your money.

00:48:03   Like, I mean, that's the truth of it,

00:48:04   is they're different and there's a true alternative

00:48:07   and it's a brand new phone.

00:48:09   And I will admit the iPhone 14 itself

00:48:11   is as marginally brand new as an iPhone has ever been.

00:48:16   Because there's so little that has changed from last year.

00:48:21   But it's also, you know, quite a bit cheaper

00:48:25   than the Pro models.

00:48:26   And for a lot of people, they don't care about that.

00:48:29   I mean, I went right through this with my son,

00:48:30   who I did not say he couldn't get an iPhone Pro.

00:48:35   And he was like, "Nah, iPhone 14's fine."

00:48:37   Like that was really his take on it.

00:48:39   And he was coming from like an iPhone 10, right?

00:48:41   So he was gonna pick up a lot of features anyway.

00:48:44   But he, yeah, he was just fine with it.

00:48:46   And that saved, and that made me happy

00:48:48   'cause it saved me money.

00:48:50   - I like this, Woody, you say,

00:48:51   "If they're choosing," so it's about buyers,

00:48:53   "If they're choosing to spend money

00:48:54   on the more expensive phone,

00:48:55   they wanna know what they're getting for their money.

00:48:57   And if those features don't impress,

00:48:59   you can save your money, right?

00:49:00   And I like that as like,

00:49:01   hey, look, if you read this, you're like, I don't want it,

00:49:03   because I just want the 14,

00:49:04   well, you don't need to get this one.

00:49:06   And so maybe the small jump is good.

00:49:08   - And psychologically,

00:49:09   if you're gonna spend on the expensive phone,

00:49:11   you wanna know that you're getting your money's worth, right?

00:49:12   You wanna know like I'm getting something for this.

00:49:15   I'm not getting this just to get one more GPU,

00:49:18   or I'm not getting this just to get stainless steel

00:49:21   and a matte back of the phone, right?

00:49:24   Instead of the shiny one, that's slightly different.

00:49:26   I want tangible features.

00:49:29   And so over the last couple of years,

00:49:31   'cause remember there was a moment with the iPhone 13

00:49:35   where the 13 and 13 Pro were almost identical

00:49:39   except for the one camera that was extra,

00:49:42   like everything else about them.

00:49:44   That was a generation where I really felt like

00:49:46   you should just get the non-Pro because they look better

00:49:50   and the differences between them are pretty minor.

00:49:53   And like it was kind of funny, or the 12th, right?

00:49:56   With the 12th generation.

00:49:58   13th generation pushed it, like the ProMotion display,

00:50:00   like it started to pull them apart,

00:50:02   and now they are way apart.

00:50:03   They have different chips in them,

00:50:05   different chip generations between the 14 and the 14 Pro.

00:50:09   And the camera has advanced so much in the 14 Pro.

00:50:13   And in addition to ProMotion,

00:50:15   you also have the brightness,

00:50:16   and you have the always on display,

00:50:18   and you have the dynamic island.

00:50:19   Like they are way apart now.

00:50:22   And that's in a couple of cycles, you go from the 12,

00:50:25   where you might as well just get the low end one,

00:50:27   'cause they're not really that different,

00:50:29   all the way to the 14, where they are way far apart

00:50:32   in terms of functionality.

00:50:33   And that's something that Apple has made a point of doing.

00:50:37   We talked about the idea of an Apple Watch,

00:50:39   or an Apple, an iPhone Ultra, like the Apple Watch Ultra.

00:50:42   Well, this is how it starts, right?

00:50:45   You've gotta, first, you gotta pull your stack of four phones

00:50:48   that are only different, really, in terms of looks and size,

00:50:51   and maybe one camera, you start pulling them apart.

00:50:54   And after a couple of years,

00:50:55   you've really started to open up

00:50:57   some differentiation between them.

00:50:59   And I think differentiation is good because it's clear,

00:51:04   like if you're, again, it's good for buyers too,

00:51:07   because it's very clear what you're buying.

00:51:09   There's this or this, and they are different.

00:51:11   And they're different enough for you to make a choice

00:51:13   about is the difference worth the money?

00:51:15   When they're all kind of muddled together,

00:51:17   it's not good for anyone.

00:51:18   - Yeah, it is interesting to think that like

00:51:21   within the next couple of years we could be looking at like five distinct iPhones

00:51:26   right if you include the SE that they make like they're distinct in some way

00:51:29   from each other like much more than they are now they're like five brands five

00:51:34   devices and they all have a slightly different set of features that is an

00:51:39   interesting thing like I don't like I wonder like does it get too complicated

00:51:44   at that point I don't know right I guess that's the thing that we'll have to see

00:51:48   bear out over time, but as it stands for right now, like in my position of being

00:51:53   somebody who's excited and interested about this stuff and talks about it

00:51:57   professionally, I like the idea of the differentiation because it allows for

00:52:03   a different dimension on what we can think about and talk about. You called

00:52:08   the Dynamic Island a significant evolution of iOS. Yeah, I mean it is

00:52:14   It is that, right?

00:52:14   They took, again, I admire them taking something

00:52:18   that they could have just seen as a blemish to hide,

00:52:23   which is the idea that they still have these sensors

00:52:25   cutting out into their screen.

00:52:26   And they like the edge-to-edge-ish screen,

00:52:29   but they want the sensors, they have to be there.

00:52:32   And although they don't take up as much space

00:52:34   as they used to, they still are cutting into the screen.

00:52:37   They could have hidden it.

00:52:39   They chose instead to use it as a prompt

00:52:43   to build an ongoing status feature.

00:52:46   I think that's great.

00:52:49   I think it has a lot of potential.

00:52:54   Also though, you can't,

00:52:58   I mean, well, let me back up and just say also,

00:53:01   this is how do you do multitasking on an iPhone.

00:53:04   I know that in the Unconnected Federico talks

00:53:07   and you guys joke about like,

00:53:09   split screen coming to the big iPhones and things like that.

00:53:11   I was like, the iPhone is just not practical

00:53:13   for that kind of thing, right?

00:53:15   It's too small.

00:53:16   Well, even the big one is too small.

00:53:17   - Well, I think that's not a joke.

00:53:19   Like, I think they could do it.

00:53:21   Like, it is no joke.

00:53:22   I've used Android devices that do it.

00:53:25   Like, is it the best?

00:53:26   No, but is it good in a pinch?

00:53:28   Yes. - No.

00:53:29   - Right?

00:53:29   It's like, you know.

00:53:30   - I don't know if Apple's gonna sign on

00:53:31   to is it the best?

00:53:32   No, right?

00:53:33   Like, that's a company. - But the thing is,

00:53:35   picture in picture exists.

00:53:36   And I can have-- - Yes, it does.

00:53:38   - A huge video window

00:53:40   that covers up a third of my display at any time.

00:53:43   So they can do it.

00:53:45   - They can, they seem really reluctant,

00:53:48   but the point is, look, they're trying something else here,

00:53:51   which is essentially Dynamic Island is allowing you

00:53:56   to get data from two apps at once.

00:53:58   And it's a background thing,

00:53:59   and it's like a status and notification.

00:54:01   It is the smallest of scales, I think I say,

00:54:04   of single screen multitasking, but it is multitasking.

00:54:07   So they are trying to build this thing in

00:54:11   to kind of redefine what's happening in the background

00:54:13   while you're using a single app,

00:54:14   because that's basically the metaphor on the iPhone

00:54:17   is there's one app at a time,

00:54:18   but there's other stuff going on too,

00:54:19   and you should know about it.

00:54:21   The problem is that they shipped all of this

00:54:25   without the Live Activities API,

00:54:30   which they announced in June, but hid part of,

00:54:33   and said, "Anyway, it's not gonna ship

00:54:36   until later in the fall. And I'm not entirely clear about whether it wasn't going to ship

00:54:40   until later, in part because it wasn't going to be ready, or whether this was entirely

00:54:46   just "we're going to pull that feature out because we don't want to give away the details

00:54:50   of what we're doing with the Dynamic Island." And you know, that's a choice they can make.

00:54:56   But the net result is that one of the big feeders of value into the Dynamic Island is

00:55:03   not available and won't be available until another software update. And meanwhile, also

00:55:10   the software developers have to figure out how they want to use it and implement it and

00:55:13   release their products with it. And I think that's a problem because it means the dynamic

00:55:16   island is essentially unfinished right now. And it feels unfinished. It's got like, yeah,

00:55:22   sure, there's some Apple apps. And if you play audio or do calls, basically, you pick

00:55:28   it up for free because those APIs support it. And Apple has integrated some, but not

00:55:34   all, of its status information in there. I'm always surprised when there's like, "Oh, when

00:55:38   I mute my ringer, that goes in there and my face ID goes in there, but when I activate

00:55:45   – oh, and if I run a shortcut, it goes in there. But if I activate Siri, no, that doesn't

00:55:52   do it there. What?" And every so often I see something and I'm like, "Why is that

00:55:57   not in the Dynamic Island.

00:55:58   And I think the answer is no, they didn't get to it.

00:55:59   So it's one of these things where,

00:56:02   for whatever reason or reasons,

00:56:03   the Dynamic Island is an unfinished feature,

00:56:07   or at least an unfed feature.

00:56:10   And so who can judge, right?

00:56:12   Like we're gonna all need to live with it

00:56:14   and see what happens and see what developers do

00:56:17   before we can really render a final judgment about it.

00:56:20   And also I'll throw out there that like the touch bar

00:56:22   or something like that, sorry to mention the touch bar,

00:56:24   but the other part of this is that Apple needs

00:56:26   to continue to press on it.

00:56:28   I think that there are places where it could be improved

00:56:31   and should be improved over time.

00:56:33   And we won't know that until next WWDC,

00:56:36   but I would really like Apple to show

00:56:39   that it thinks the Dynamic Island is important

00:56:42   and not a product that they release,

00:56:45   consider done, walk away from,

00:56:46   and then it fades away in a few years.

00:56:49   - I really do like the idea.

00:56:51   I hadn't considered it as multitasking,

00:56:54   but I guess it is and it will be.

00:56:56   I think this is, I know everyone's saying it,

00:56:58   but it really is one of these things where like,

00:57:01   right now for me, it's like a curiosity,

00:57:03   it's something I see every now and then,

00:57:05   it's like an animation I enjoy, you know,

00:57:08   that kind of stuff, there's a little piece of information

00:57:09   that I get, like, now whenever I put my AirPods in,

00:57:12   I get a battery indication immediately,

00:57:14   which I like, they've just put it in there, right?

00:57:16   Like it's little parts, it's like, oh, that's fun.

00:57:18   But it really is going to take the like,

00:57:21   well, when I order a car and I see how long it's gonna take

00:57:23   and you know, when I order food and I see

00:57:25   well, how long that's gonna be,

00:57:27   or when I'm keeping track of something,

00:57:30   all of that stuff,

00:57:31   that's where it's going to really come into its own,

00:57:34   potentially, right?

00:57:35   And it is hard to know right now,

00:57:38   will this feel like multitasking,

00:57:40   or will this just feel like a notification?

00:57:43   I don't know, but I'm intrigued.

00:57:46   - Yeah, and I do think that they've been very,

00:57:50   I think what I said in the article

00:57:51   is they've been very conservative with it, right?

00:57:52   They're being very careful with these features,

00:57:54   'cause they don't wanna like, first off,

00:57:56   they can't really revamp all of iOS

00:57:58   because it's only on this one,

00:57:59   you know, two models basically right now.

00:58:03   But at the same time, they could do more,

00:58:05   they could push more things into the dynamic island.

00:58:07   And I'm sure that they had an internal discussion

00:58:09   about like what goes in there and what doesn't.

00:58:11   But I'm not convinced that what we're seeing

00:58:14   is the complete final result of that.

00:58:17   One, because I think they don't know.

00:58:18   And two, because I think there are things

00:58:20   that they just decided they didn't have time to reinvent.

00:58:22   And so they just sort of left them out there.

00:58:24   But I do, by opening that door,

00:58:27   every interruption I see on my iPhone

00:58:29   that is not in the dynamic island

00:58:32   makes me say, "Why is this not?"

00:58:35   And sometimes the answer is a good answer,

00:58:38   but sometimes I go, "Mm, I'm not,

00:58:41   I think that this should be there."

00:58:43   And they just chose, or decided they couldn't do it.

00:58:46   And I just think that's,

00:58:47   it's an interesting place to put yourself.

00:58:50   But I think once you say, "Here's the dynamic island,"

00:58:53   you are opening yourself up as Apple

00:58:56   to having your users go, wait a second,

00:58:59   if this is so great, why doesn't it do that?

00:59:02   And that's why it's, you know, like I said,

00:59:05   I don't wanna call it an unfinished feature,

00:59:06   but it's certainly a 1.0,

00:59:08   and it's a 1.0 kind of feature without developer support.

00:59:13   So it feels very much like that.

00:59:16   Like anything that ships on a brand new device

00:59:18   where it's revolutionary and amazing,

00:59:20   but all that really supports it,

00:59:21   that launches Apple apps and some stuff

00:59:23   that they've sort of swept in.

00:59:25   That's literally what this is, is that.

00:59:27   And so, you know, to be,

00:59:30   and I'm reviewing it in the context of an iPhone

00:59:33   because these iPhones are the ones that offer it right now.

00:59:37   But it also is really, at this point,

00:59:41   a software story going forward.

00:59:43   It's a really an iOS story.

00:59:45   It starts on this hardware, but then from now on,

00:59:48   the Dynamic Island, you know,

00:59:49   if we do a follow-up review about the phones,

00:59:51   I think that it really, there should be a follow-up review

00:59:54   at some point about the Dynamic Island

00:59:56   because where is it going?

00:59:58   Because the hardware is not changing, right?

00:59:59   It's the software that will make a change.

01:00:02   - One of the things that I am really intrigued about

01:00:04   and I actually think is good is that

01:00:06   all of the Dynamic Island stuff is powered

01:00:08   by live activities, which exists on all iPhones with iOS.

01:00:13   - Yes, or it's point one, right?

01:00:16   It's like will exist.

01:00:17   - Yeah.

01:00:18   - Will exist, yes.

01:00:18   - I could have imagined that they're like,

01:00:20   oh, we just made this thing for the dynamic island.

01:00:24   You know, but they didn't.

01:00:25   I just think that's kind of cool that,

01:00:27   so at least other people will still be able

01:00:29   to benefit from it.

01:00:30   - We'll see, I mean, it'll be on lock screens, right?

01:00:33   Non always on lock screens on other devices

01:00:36   will also show this.

01:00:38   - I assume it also shows a notification center in general,

01:00:41   right, as well as the lock screens.

01:00:43   - Right, that's my guess.

01:00:44   But I think that that's gonna be an ongoing question

01:00:47   when we talk about iOS 17 is,

01:00:51   is there a way to integrate information?

01:00:55   Where does the live activities information show?

01:00:58   What are the proper places for it?

01:00:59   Because there are a lot of devices

01:01:00   that don't have the Dynamic Island.

01:01:02   And so can I flip up or down somewhere

01:01:05   and see my live activities?

01:01:07   And perhaps that's the answer is,

01:01:08   literally it's in Notification Center.

01:01:10   And so you have to do extra work

01:01:11   if you're not using the Dynamic Island.

01:01:13   That's fine.

01:01:15   Or you have to lock your phone

01:01:16   and see it on the lock screen,

01:01:17   which is maybe less good,

01:01:18   'cause then you have to unlock your phone.

01:01:20   I don't know.

01:01:21   It's something to watch,

01:01:23   because it is a new thing that Apple is, you know,

01:01:27   kind of experimenting with on two phone models right now.

01:01:31   - For now.

01:01:33   You don't seem too keen on the always-on.

01:01:39   I would read this line,

01:01:40   "What does leaving the iPhone screen on actually accomplish?"

01:01:44   (laughs)

01:01:45   I just thought it was like pretty skewering.

01:01:48   - I mean, yeah, not trying.

01:01:51   I mean, I didn't write that sentence and go,

01:01:52   "Ha ha, I got you." - You got 'em.

01:01:54   - Got 'em, yeah. - That's right, we got 'em.

01:01:57   Everybody, victory.

01:01:58   Well, I was struck.

01:02:00   We were having dinner with my kids

01:02:04   while we were dropping my son off at college.

01:02:08   And my daughter says,

01:02:12   'cause I got the phone laying out on the table

01:02:14   at the restaurant and she says, "Why is it on?"

01:02:19   Like, she was kinda like disturbed by it,

01:02:23   which is not a reaction I expected.

01:02:26   It's like, "Oh, that's cool, it's always on."

01:02:28   It's like, "Mm, no, like, she didn't like it."

01:02:30   And some of that is just not used to it

01:02:33   and phones are very important to her

01:02:35   and it's a phone doing a weird thing.

01:02:37   But it did make me think, okay, why is it like this?

01:02:43   And so this is my answer,

01:02:48   which is what is asking me a question,

01:02:51   what does it accomplish?

01:02:53   What is it for?

01:02:54   Why is it like this?

01:02:55   And if you wanna say,

01:02:56   well, I like that my phone is hanging out on my desk

01:03:00   and I look and I can see the time

01:03:01   and I can see a picture that's on it.

01:03:03   It's like, fair enough.

01:03:04   Like fair enough.

01:03:05   But for me, I'm a little more skeptical about that.

01:03:10   Like it, and again,

01:03:12   this is a case where we don't have live activities view.

01:03:15   If it's populated with live activities,

01:03:19   it is maybe a little more dynamic,

01:03:23   not island dynamic by the way,

01:03:25   but just dynamic a little more.

01:03:27   It's interesting that they took,

01:03:30   they compacted all of the notifications

01:03:32   so you don't see so many notifications now.

01:03:34   So notification comes in and if you're looking,

01:03:37   you can see it, but like they're in a pile now,

01:03:40   So you're not gonna see the last four.

01:03:43   So that's not it.

01:03:44   It just, I like the idea of it

01:03:51   and I appreciate the technical prowess that went into it.

01:03:55   Also in my case, I wear a watch,

01:03:59   I have the time on all my devices.

01:04:01   There's very few circumstances where I'm going to use

01:04:05   the iPhone as my only source of time.

01:04:08   Now if you sleep next to your iPhone

01:04:10   and you can see glasses, I suppose,

01:04:13   then, but in sleep mode it turns itself off.

01:04:15   So maybe that's not even an answer.

01:04:16   So I guess what I'm saying is I struggle a little bit

01:04:19   with the why of this feature.

01:04:22   Not that it's not impressive

01:04:24   and not that it couldn't be something.

01:04:26   Also, it is pretty dim.

01:04:29   A lot of the photos that I put on it,

01:04:30   I can't really see them that clearly because it's dim.

01:04:35   So it doesn't become like a great showcase for my photos

01:04:38   like I thought it might.

01:04:40   It is, the widgets are okay, right?

01:04:44   That you can put some live widgets,

01:04:46   but even there the power of it is kind of blunted

01:04:48   by the fact that the lock screen widgets

01:04:52   are limited to that one strip

01:04:54   and the one text thing at the top

01:04:56   when there should probably be more.

01:04:58   And again, let me decide

01:05:01   if I want a lock screen full of widgets.

01:05:03   But it feels like Apple saying,

01:05:04   "Well, look, we've got this great new information strip

01:05:07   "and you can really only put three or four things up there.

01:05:10   "Because if you put more, it will make,

01:05:13   "we won't like how your phone looks."

01:05:15   It's like, well, it's my phone.

01:05:17   If these information things are so great

01:05:18   and I want an always on display that's full of information,

01:05:22   let me do it.

01:05:24   And Apple has decided, no, you don't get to do that.

01:05:27   So, and again, maybe part of that is solved

01:05:29   by the live activities thing, hasn't shipped, doesn't exist.

01:05:33   So I tried to be enthusiastic about the Always On display

01:05:38   and where I ended up is I think it's a curiosity

01:05:41   that needs to prove itself and for me it hasn't.

01:05:44   - I struggle to say why I like it, but I do like it.

01:05:47   I just find it interesting to just have the information

01:05:51   that I've chosen to put on my lock screen

01:05:53   there all the time.

01:05:54   I don't love it, but I like it.

01:05:57   I'm definitely not having the negative reaction

01:06:01   that I'm seeing from a lot of people.

01:06:03   - Yeah, and keeping in mind, I'm writing a review here,

01:06:06   right, so it's like reviewing anything critically.

01:06:11   I, as a regular user, I would probably say what you say,

01:06:15   which is, oh, it's kind of cool, it stays on,

01:06:17   and you can look at it, and there's stuff.

01:06:19   And that's all true.

01:06:21   But when I try to look at it critically as a reviewer,

01:06:24   I look at it and ask that question,

01:06:26   like, well, okay, what does this get me?

01:06:28   Other than draining my battery faster,

01:06:29   What does this get me?

01:06:31   And I feel like that's where Apple has not lived up

01:06:36   to the feature.

01:06:37   Apple has not done all that it could, including some,

01:06:42   you know, some of this may just be,

01:06:43   is this a good feature or not?

01:06:45   And I think it probably is fine,

01:06:47   but some of it is Apple's own failures,

01:06:50   which is, like I said, Live Activities API not being there,

01:06:53   limited ability to put widgets on the lock screen,

01:06:57   stuff that rolling up all the notifications,

01:07:00   which I support as an idea,

01:07:01   but like if I got an always on display

01:07:04   and I know on the old version of iOS,

01:07:06   I could have theoretically seen three or four notifications

01:07:09   and now I can't because they rolled them all together.

01:07:12   It just, it's curious.

01:07:15   So when I started sort of interrogating it like that,

01:07:19   I ended up coming away feeling like,

01:07:21   even though on the surface, it's like, this is cool.

01:07:24   Beyond that, you know, like my daughter said, like, "Ugh, why?"

01:07:29   It's like, "Oh, why? Hmm."

01:07:32   It could be a lot better. I guess that's what I'm saying.

01:07:34   And I think that's all -- like the dynamic island,

01:07:36   it's a little bit in Apple's hands to make it better.

01:07:39   -And since we last spoke,

01:07:40   you've been taking some raw photography.

01:07:43   -Yeah, you know, I went down -- there's a bridge near my house

01:07:47   that I like to take pictures at.

01:07:48   Some people -- that people like to take pictures out, I hear.

01:07:51   -The Bay Bridge? -No, that's not the one.

01:07:54   (laughing)

01:07:55   - Okay.

01:07:56   - It's an orange, it's the orange one.

01:07:57   - The orange bridge, that's what they call it.

01:07:59   - And so I went down there and I took a bunch of pictures.

01:08:03   I mean, I've been taking pictures with it everywhere.

01:08:05   I was saying to Lauren that this is every,

01:08:08   when you get the new iPhone and you're reviewing it,

01:08:10   everything suddenly is a photo opportunity.

01:08:13   So you start doing like, okay, I'll take it raw,

01:08:15   take a non-raw, take the 1X and the 2X and the 3X

01:08:20   and the 0.5X and you do the whole kind of rigmarole

01:08:23   so you can compare them later.

01:08:24   But I did take a bunch down by the water and by the bridge.

01:08:28   And you know, that 48 megapixel camera is staggeringly good.

01:08:33   Like that's my real top line feeling about it,

01:08:37   is that you can have an iPhone

01:08:40   with that level of detail is shocking.

01:08:44   It's so good.

01:08:46   And I think that if you're somebody

01:08:48   who really fancies themselves an iPhone photographer,

01:08:52   and one of your hobbies is taking pictures,

01:08:54   but you do a lot of it with your iPhone,

01:08:56   and you do shoot in RAW,

01:09:00   or you've thought about shooting in RAW,

01:09:02   but you process your images

01:09:03   and maybe you put them on prints or on posters.

01:09:08   Like, if you care about this,

01:09:10   that might be enough to upgrade

01:09:13   just to get access to that 48-megapixel sensor,

01:09:17   because it's, especially in bright light,

01:09:19   It is remarkably good.

01:09:22   What's funny-- - The level of detail

01:09:24   is truly unbelievable.

01:09:27   If you take the photos side by side,

01:09:30   it really is quite surprising.

01:09:34   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:35   What's funny is Apple has locked that feature out

01:09:38   for most users.

01:09:39   That's, again, I find a curious choice.

01:09:42   And again, I understand why Apple chose to do it.

01:09:46   Apple is thinking the regular photographer

01:09:49   is just shooting snapshots.

01:09:51   And so what we're getting with the 48 megapixel sensor

01:09:54   for the regular person is two things.

01:09:57   One is quad pixel binning.

01:09:59   So we're not using it as a 48,

01:10:01   we're using it as a really good 12 megapixel camera

01:10:04   with good low light performance.

01:10:06   Great, that's really good.

01:10:07   And the other thing that you get is the 2X camera,

01:10:11   which is not a camera,

01:10:12   but just a crop of the inside 12 megapixels

01:10:17   of the 48 megapixel sensor.

01:10:19   But that's really nice because it means that

01:10:21   you are able to use that sensor to get a,

01:10:25   it's a crop, but it's,

01:10:27   the context is instead of letting you do

01:10:29   a 48 megapixel picture and crop it,

01:10:31   they're like, "Well, we're gonna pre-crop it for you."

01:10:34   And it's not gonna have the low light performance

01:10:35   that the quad pixel binning has 'cause it's turned off,

01:10:38   but you are gonna get a different, another camera view.

01:10:40   And the 2X view is really nice.

01:10:42   So Apple's giving the users that.

01:10:46   But what it's not doing is saying,

01:10:48   yeah, but I wanna take this at 48.

01:10:50   And so you have to go into settings, into camera,

01:10:54   and then you have to go into a sub menu.

01:10:56   You have to turn on raw and say, I wanna shoot 48 raw.

01:11:00   And then you have the ability to toggle raw on and off

01:11:03   in the camera app.

01:11:03   - Then it's really easy.

01:11:04   Like it is easy then,

01:11:06   'cause you just got that button there all the time.

01:11:08   - Even then you don't have the option

01:11:09   of shooting like a 48 megapixel heaf image.

01:11:12   It has to be raw.

01:11:14   And that means, and it's like another barrier.

01:11:16   So Apple has erected all these barriers to using the sensor.

01:11:20   And I get it, like on one level, I get it.

01:11:22   It is not for most people.

01:11:24   The files are huge.

01:11:25   Most people would prefer the lower light performance

01:11:27   from the quad pixel binning and have that benefit.

01:11:30   However, I am still a little disappointed.

01:11:33   I think Apple's so clever, right?

01:11:36   Apple's so clever and so helpful.

01:11:38   I think having a shooting mode that you could turn on

01:11:43   that says, when I'm in bright light,

01:11:45   give me a 48 megapixel heave image

01:11:48   because it's gorgeous and detailed.

01:11:51   And it's a feature I'm turning on,

01:11:54   but also be smart enough to say,

01:11:55   oh, well, the light's a little bit lower now,

01:11:57   I'm gonna go to the quad pixel binning

01:11:59   in order to get a better shot.

01:12:00   And Apple does this in other circumstances

01:12:02   where they change the lens in order to get the right one

01:12:06   that's got the right performance in it.

01:12:08   Like when you're zooming through, it will change the lens

01:12:11   and when the light conditions change,

01:12:12   it will change the lens or the camera it's using.

01:12:14   - And I don't know if it still does this,

01:12:16   but I know for a while, if you used the telephoto,

01:12:19   but there wasn't enough light,

01:12:20   it would just crop in the main lens.

01:12:23   - Yeah, oh yeah, I mean, it does this.

01:12:25   And so I asked the question again,

01:12:27   which is like, what's the deal, Apple?

01:12:29   Why have you made it so hard

01:12:32   not to use the 48 megapixel sensor?

01:12:34   Like, and again, I understand some of the reasoning,

01:12:38   but I disagree with the absolutism of,

01:12:41   you can only do it if you turn the setting on

01:12:43   and shoot RAW, otherwise you don't, or,

01:12:46   'cause again, if the argument is,

01:12:48   "Well, yeah, but those images are noisy

01:12:50   and you really need the quad pixel binning."

01:12:52   Well, I can shoot a 2X,

01:12:54   those images are noisy and don't have quad pixel binning.

01:12:57   I'm allowed to do that,

01:12:59   but I'm not allowed to see the whole sensor

01:13:01   unless I turn on RAW.

01:13:03   Like, I don't know, it is,

01:13:05   So the bottom line is, this is a great camera,

01:13:09   especially if you care about photos

01:13:11   and you're willing to take the extra steps

01:13:13   to give yourself extra control.

01:13:15   And the stuff that comes out in those RAW files is amazing.

01:13:19   It is really, really incredible levels of detail.

01:13:24   I was taking pictures of the Golden Gate Bridge

01:13:25   where I could see individual people up on the ridge

01:13:29   above the bridge looking down on it.

01:13:31   Whereas in the 12 megapixel image, you know, there's a bump.

01:13:35   but in the 48 megapixel, it's a human being.

01:13:38   You can see their arms and their head

01:13:40   and they're looking out.

01:13:41   Like it is remarkable.

01:13:44   So it's a great camera,

01:13:46   but if you're a casual photographer

01:13:50   who just is, you know, shooting snapshots,

01:13:53   it is a better camera,

01:13:57   but not as better as you might think.

01:14:01   And it is better.

01:14:02   I definitely saw some cases

01:14:03   where there was a lot of noise in the 48

01:14:06   and the quad pixel binning was like, there's no noise.

01:14:09   It's really impressive,

01:14:11   but it's a way more subtle sort of thing.

01:14:14   And I just, I really feel like this is the case

01:14:17   where Apple has erred too far on the side

01:14:21   of keeping it simple.

01:14:23   And I don't wanna say dumbing it down,

01:14:26   but that's kind of what it is,

01:14:27   which is they've taken their own sensor

01:14:29   and really muted its impact by not giving people a pathway

01:14:34   to like, they basically said the 48 is really only for pros

01:14:41   or if you wanna zoom, otherwise forget it.

01:14:44   And I think that's too bad.

01:14:45   - Yeah, I feel like just in general,

01:14:48   there is maybe a little bit more headroom in this camera

01:14:50   than Apple have made available in general, right?

01:14:53   - Yeah, yeah.

01:14:54   - 'Cause as we were talking about,

01:14:57   and as a lot of reviewers have pointed out,

01:14:58   like people that are, I would say,

01:15:00   much more knowledgeable than me and you about photography.

01:15:04   - That's for sure.

01:15:05   - It seems like really the 14 does most of the time

01:15:08   about as good a job as the 13 Pro, right?

01:15:11   The 14 Pro and the 13 Pro.

01:15:13   - Yeah, I shot a bunch with the 13 Pro as well.

01:15:15   And although the 14 Pro is very, very, very slightly better

01:15:18   in certain conditions, they're basically the same.

01:15:21   Which is, when I say dumbed down,

01:15:23   I mean, it is a little bit of that.

01:15:24   Apple has this incredibly amazing new piece of hardware,

01:15:28   but they kind of want the default to be more or less

01:15:30   what the old hardware was with a little bit of a variation.

01:15:33   And that's an odd decision.

01:15:36   And I just, I'm a little bit frustrated

01:15:39   that they didn't try to push this more.

01:15:41   And I think you're exactly right.

01:15:42   It is a scenario where Apple seems to be going real slow

01:15:47   and wants to be really conservative

01:15:49   about how they roll out their new hardware.

01:15:52   And I think they're concerned about people, you know,

01:15:54   shooting giant images that they can't do anything with

01:15:57   that they would have to process and like I get all of that but I just I think they went too far.

01:16:03   I think they have erred too far on the side of not giving more regular users the access to that kind

01:16:11   of power. However they will let us do it which I could imagine a world in which they didn't enable

01:16:18   a 48 megapixel sensor. Oh yeah imagine if the only way you could use that use the 48 data was in the

01:16:24   in the 2X mode with a little part of it.

01:16:26   - You can see a world in which they would just not do it.

01:16:30   So what I'll say is like on the flip side,

01:16:34   it feels like a great time for apps that make shooting

01:16:37   and dealing with raw photos easier.

01:16:40   And I think that is going to maybe become more

01:16:44   and more popular.

01:16:45   It is worth saying maybe this is the first time

01:16:48   I feel like we're putting a camera and pro

01:16:53   in the name together on an iPhone makes sense

01:16:56   because to get the best out of this lens,

01:16:59   you have to do something that really,

01:17:00   you kinda need to know what you're doing a little bit

01:17:04   to get it to work.

01:17:05   'Cause like sometimes, in the right daylight,

01:17:06   you take a picture with the RAW, it just looks good.

01:17:08   But if you're not in that, you get,

01:17:10   colors look weird and that kind of stuff.

01:17:12   - But let me respond to that though by saying,

01:17:16   isn't that Apple's job?

01:17:17   Like isn't Apple's job,

01:17:19   isn't the thing that Apple is so proud of?

01:17:21   - Oh yeah.

01:17:22   - That they take some amazing hardware technology

01:17:23   like a 48 megapixel sensor,

01:17:25   and they use their amazing secret sauce

01:17:27   and their image pipeline and their photonic engine

01:17:30   and all of that to put that power

01:17:33   in the hands of the regular user.

01:17:36   And I would argue then that if you say,

01:17:39   this is great if you are unlocking all of the barriers

01:17:45   and downloading a third party app and that you're a pro,

01:17:48   shouldn't the idea be that Apple unlocks that power

01:17:52   for everyone to use, and they didn't.

01:17:55   They chose not to.

01:17:56   They're like, nah, it's a zoom or a pro feature

01:18:00   you can turn on.

01:18:01   And again, I'm not saying everybody should be shooting

01:18:03   48 megapixels, I'm not saying that at all,

01:18:05   but like there is a scenario here,

01:18:07   again, to get back to sort of like my critics hat,

01:18:09   there's a scenario here where Apple says,

01:18:11   we are smart enough that if you put it in this mode,

01:18:14   we know when to shoot with 48,

01:18:17   and we know when to step it down to quad pixel binning,

01:18:20   and we'll make it look great under either circumstance

01:18:23   for you, regular person,

01:18:25   so that you can take the photo off and go,

01:18:27   "Oh my God, look at all this extra detail,

01:18:29   'cause I wanna crop it over here in the corner

01:18:31   and print a poster of it," or whatever.

01:18:34   And they punted, I mean, they punted on that.

01:18:36   They said, "No, we're not gonna make 48 megapixel images

01:18:40   accessible to regular users.

01:18:42   We're gonna hide it."

01:18:44   And I think that, look, we can all debate it

01:18:48   because I think this is a completely subjective thing.

01:18:51   I think that is a failure of Apple's own stated philosophy

01:18:57   of taking high complicated technology

01:19:00   and bringing it to regular people.

01:19:01   They literally locked everybody out of this feature

01:19:03   unless they know how to turn it on

01:19:05   instead of having it be magic.

01:19:08   And that's curious to me.

01:19:10   I find that very curious.

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01:22:15   Our thanks to Rogue Amoeba for their support of this show, for literally making this show possible

01:22:20   and for supporting Relay FM as well. So I got, Jason, we got I should say, a bunch of

01:22:26   Ask Upgrade questions that were specifically focused on the Dynamic Island. So we're going

01:22:31   going to do a Dynamic Island Edition of Ask Upgrade and then we're going to do

01:22:35   our regular Ask Upgrade today. Okay so this is Dynamic Island Ask Upgrade that

01:22:41   we're doing? Is it possible that the lasers for the Dynamic Island Edition of Ask

01:22:47   Upgrade would sound any different?

01:22:53   Okay. Did they just kill a bird? Maybe. At least shot at the bird. Yeah. On the island.

01:23:02   I guess it's like some parrot or something. I don't even know. It could have been a monkey too.

01:23:07   I don't know. Monkey island. Jonathan asks, "Apple have done a great job embracing the

01:23:13   camera cutouts of the dynamic island. However, they clearly have their eyes on

01:23:17   the day that they can make an iPhone a truly full screen device. When that day

01:23:22   arrives, what do you imagine they would do with the island?

01:23:25   - Well, let's see how it goes.

01:23:29   I think that's the first one, is like, let's see how it goes.

01:23:31   And if people like it and people are used to it,

01:23:34   my guess is that the dynamic island will pop down

01:23:37   in a delightful animation when it's active

01:23:41   and disappear with a delightful animation

01:23:44   when it's not active.

01:23:45   That you might be able to swipe it down or swipe it up

01:23:50   and get it out of your way

01:23:51   if you don't wanna see it and probably turn it on or off.

01:23:54   But that would be my guess,

01:23:55   is that it'll look just like it does now,

01:23:58   except it'll be dismissible

01:23:59   and it won't have an inactive state.

01:24:01   That's my guess.

01:24:02   - I could imagine that, yeah, it just,

01:24:06   it just, right, if you say like when something's not in it,

01:24:09   it just doesn't exist.

01:24:11   - Right, assuming that people like it and use it,

01:24:13   and Apple thinks it's an important part of iOS,

01:24:15   which I would say it's more likely than not

01:24:17   that is the case.

01:24:18   But if it's a flop and nobody really likes it,

01:24:20   After a year or two, then they'll be like,

01:24:22   "Okay, well, once we can get rid of it,

01:24:24   we'll just, you know, like the touch bar,

01:24:25   we'll just make it fade away."

01:24:26   But otherwise, yeah, I mean,

01:24:28   that's the beauty of this thing is it's mostly software,

01:24:30   right? It is hiding some cutouts, but it's mostly software.

01:24:33   So that's my guess is they'll just make it something

01:24:37   that appears when it's active or you can dismiss it

01:24:39   or make it reappear or whatever.

01:24:41   And it'll be a dynamic status item element

01:24:46   at the top of the screen.

01:24:48   Because even in the world of a full screen iPhone,

01:24:52   I still think they're going to need

01:24:54   to have a status bar of some description, right?

01:24:57   That has stuff in it.

01:24:59   So the idea of having this design,

01:25:01   like this UI element that could appear and go away

01:25:05   or whatever, there's probably going

01:25:07   to be some kind of element of that for a long time.

01:25:13   I will say that the fact that they have done all of the work

01:25:16   that they have done would suggest to me that Apple think

01:25:21   that it is quite a way away before they won't have

01:25:25   any cameras or sensors visible on the device, right?

01:25:28   - It will be interesting if we end up

01:25:29   with a different dynamic island at some point that's got,

01:25:32   like the beauty of the dynamic island, I would guess,

01:25:35   is that they have the ability or will have the ability

01:25:37   to change sort of what cutouts they're dancing around

01:25:41   and where they are.

01:25:42   So yeah, we may see it that it's an even smaller cutout,

01:25:45   but we won't notice the difference

01:25:46   'cause it's still just the dynamic island.

01:25:49   It's also possible that at some point

01:25:50   they might re-figure the whole thing

01:25:52   as a status bar on the top,

01:25:55   because there is the name of the carrier

01:25:57   and your wifi and your bars and your battery and all of that.

01:26:01   That stuff's always up there,

01:26:03   whereas dynamic island kind of appears

01:26:05   during active activities.

01:26:07   So they might reconceive some of that stuff if necessary.

01:26:11   But anyway, I think that's the most likely scenario

01:26:14   is that the dynamic island will continue to stay around.

01:26:17   And we talked about the idea that it might even appear

01:26:19   on things like the iPad down the road.

01:26:21   I think it would be the same thing, right?

01:26:23   It would be a place that would appear

01:26:27   when you have something in the background that is going on

01:26:30   and that you can turn it off or dismiss it

01:26:32   if you don't wanna see it.

01:26:33   - Speaking of which, John asks, Jonathan asks.

01:26:38   - Okay.

01:26:39   Not John, Jonathan, we already had John.

01:26:43   - No, I don't wanna, actually,

01:26:44   I don't wanna get to Jonathan's question just yet.

01:26:46   Hold on. - Oh, okay.

01:26:47   - There's another question here.

01:26:49   I'm getting lost on dynamic island.

01:26:51   Oh yeah, this was John.

01:26:52   Jonathan asked the last question.

01:26:53   John asks this question.

01:26:55   I've got too many Johns around here.

01:26:57   - All right.

01:26:57   - John says, "You spoke last week

01:26:59   "about whether the iPad would get the dynamic island or not.

01:27:02   "What about the Mac?

01:27:03   "The Mac has a notch today.

01:27:05   "Could it have the island in the future?"

01:27:07   - My gut feeling is that the Mac already has a thing for this

01:27:10   and it's the menu bar.

01:27:12   - Hmm.

01:27:13   If the "Dynamic Island" is a big hit

01:27:15   and Apple wants to kind of play that idea elsewhere,

01:27:19   who knows?

01:27:21   It could certainly do it if it wanted to,

01:27:26   but with the notch, what Apple has done

01:27:29   is basically made the notch part of the menu bar.

01:27:32   And the menu bar is a status area,

01:27:34   so I'm not sure it's necessary on the Mac.

01:27:37   I mean, could they do it if they really, really liked it

01:27:39   and they wanted to extend it?

01:27:42   Sure, also the Mac is even more multitasky already.

01:27:47   So it really is, you know, the need for it is less.

01:27:49   It really is the stuff that's already in the menu bar.

01:27:51   It's already up there.

01:27:52   So, you know, other than forcing it in

01:27:56   because of a brand extension kind of thing,

01:27:58   it doesn't seem very necessary on the Mac.

01:28:01   My entire dynamic island on my Mac is like,

01:28:05   my menu bar is my dynamic island is what I'm trying to say.

01:28:07   It's a, I don't know what that would be.

01:28:09   It's like a haze layer of status or something.

01:28:12   I don't know.

01:28:13   It's up there at the very top.

01:28:14   - We're not looking for a dynamic menu.

01:28:17   - No.

01:28:18   - Alex asks, "In time, could you imagine

01:28:21   that notifications would be integrated

01:28:23   into the dynamic island?"

01:28:25   - Well, so this is something that we sort of touched on

01:28:29   earlier with the question of like,

01:28:31   does it, it's like a new game.

01:28:33   Should this be in the dynamic island?

01:28:36   And I think that when a notification comes in,

01:28:41   having the dynamic island expand to show it

01:28:47   and then have it go back away if you don't interact with it,

01:28:52   I mean, I've got to think they mock that up.

01:28:55   And there must be some reason.

01:28:56   The question is, do they think it's a bad idea

01:28:58   or did they just not have time to revamp

01:28:59   the entire notification system on two phones?

01:29:01   I think that's the question.

01:29:03   Feels to me like as a notification comes in,

01:29:06   What is that but a background status event, right?

01:29:09   Like that it actually, I think maybe should display

01:29:11   on the dynamic island, at least temporarily,

01:29:15   and then go away again.

01:29:16   I'm sure there's a counter argument to that,

01:29:19   but that's my gut feeling is like, whoa, why not?

01:29:22   Why do we have multiple layers?

01:29:24   Like, why do I have a little notification blob

01:29:27   shoot down below the dynamic island and then live there

01:29:30   and then shoot back up when it's done,

01:29:32   when it's doing kind of the same job

01:29:36   as the Dynamic Island.

01:29:36   I know it's not ongoing,

01:29:38   but it is a background information bit that's coming in.

01:29:41   So I think there's a solid argument

01:29:45   for Apple putting notification pop-ups

01:29:48   in the Dynamic Island.

01:29:49   - I would like to see it.

01:29:51   I just like the animation.

01:29:53   Like, I like the Apple Pay animation.

01:29:56   I just think it looks really nice.

01:29:58   So I would, why,

01:29:59   considering notifications come from that general area

01:30:02   of the screen, why not have them pop up there?

01:30:05   - You know, and while I'm being critical

01:30:08   of all of Apple's stuff today,

01:30:09   because that's part of my job,

01:30:11   I like what you said earlier about like,

01:30:15   it feels like Apple thinks this is the thing.

01:30:18   Like nothing tells you that Apple thinks

01:30:20   that this is the thing more than the amount of effort

01:30:23   that they put into all the animations, all the movements.

01:30:26   The Dynamic Island is a dancing blob.

01:30:29   It is this, it's got for a black space,

01:30:33   an empty, theoretically, space.

01:30:36   It actually has personality,

01:30:38   a featureless empty blob that has personality,

01:30:40   but it does, and it does its little thing

01:30:43   where it expands and goes, "Oh, Face ID,"

01:30:45   and like, "Oh, the lock is unlocked,"

01:30:47   and now, you know, all of those things

01:30:49   that it's doing up there.

01:30:50   That suggests that Apple is like,

01:30:51   "Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're onto something here,"

01:30:53   and it is delightful.

01:30:55   And then a notification comes in,

01:30:56   and it's like, "Here I am, there I go,"

01:30:58   and it's like, it feels old, right?

01:30:59   It doesn't feel right.

01:31:00   And again, I can see arguments

01:31:02   that notifications aren't Dynamic Island participants,

01:31:05   but I think maybe they are.

01:31:07   I think that that's the right place for them.

01:31:09   Like you've got, you invented the replacement

01:31:11   for notifications, so now notifications need to go in there.

01:31:13   Not like for Notification Center,

01:31:15   where you're viewing all of them,

01:31:16   but like the ones that come in across the transom, right,

01:31:20   and say, "Here's a news alert," and it expands and goes,

01:31:23   "Oh, the news thing happened,"

01:31:24   and then you either interact with it or it goes,

01:31:27   "Mm, goodbye," and it fades back away.

01:31:29   Like that seems right to me.

01:31:32   - Aaron asks, can you disable the always on display

01:31:37   on the 14 Pro via focus modes or shortcuts,

01:31:40   i.e. disable when driving?

01:31:42   Okay, the answer to the,

01:31:46   the direct answer to what you are asking is no, right?

01:31:51   You cannot use focus modes to turn off the always on display

01:31:56   but-- - Right.

01:31:58   Even though some focus modes do it, hmm.

01:32:01   - Yeah.

01:32:02   - This feels like, by the way, this feels like a feature

01:32:04   that will be updated sometime in iOS 16, right?

01:32:07   Like this feels like one of those things

01:32:08   they just left on the table.

01:32:09   It's like, we'll get to it.

01:32:10   Like we got other stuff going on today.

01:32:12   Have you seen the Dynamic Island?

01:32:13   We're working on it.

01:32:14   This feels like it's just like easy to add this later.

01:32:17   So I hope they will.

01:32:19   - But there is a thing that I found on 9to5Mac today

01:32:24   where there's like a weird workaround that you can do.

01:32:27   So there is a setting in the options of a focus mode,

01:32:32   which is currently called dim lock screen

01:32:35   when you're in a certain focus.

01:32:37   And on other devices, it kind of just,

01:32:41   just something akin to what the sleep mode looks like,

01:32:43   where it kind of like dims the lock screen a little bit.

01:32:46   But when you do this on an always on,

01:32:52   like so you got like the 14 Pro, right?

01:32:54   When you enable this option,

01:32:56   It turns off everything other than time and widgets

01:33:01   when you're in that focus mode

01:33:03   and you've enabled that as a thing.

01:33:06   So you could create a lock screen that had no widgets on it

01:33:11   and tie it to that focus mode.

01:33:14   Then when you turned on this focus mode,

01:33:18   it would basically make your lock screen

01:33:21   just have the time on it.

01:33:24   This is a real work around, but this is a way to do it.

01:33:29   You would have to have, like, this is not a solution

01:33:33   to get what people want in my opinion of like,

01:33:36   I just wanted to have this, I don't want the image.

01:33:38   You could do that, but then you're living

01:33:40   in A focus mode all the time.

01:33:42   Maybe that's good for you, maybe that's what you want.

01:33:44   This is a work around to do it.

01:33:46   This is not the option that people are looking for,

01:33:52   but this is a thing you can do if you have a specific reason.

01:33:57   So for example, like Aaron mentioned,

01:33:59   is like to disable it while driving.

01:34:00   So yes, you could set up a driving lock screen

01:34:04   that didn't have any widgets on it,

01:34:06   and then you could turn that one on

01:34:08   by setting up that focus mode, enabling that setting,

01:34:12   and then when you drive, your iPhone will just show the time,

01:34:15   which probably isn't that distracting to you.

01:34:17   That's a way to do it,

01:34:19   but it's not the thing you're looking for.

01:34:22   They should add this as a thing in focus mode,

01:34:23   just straight up turn it off like you can in sleep.

01:34:27   - This feels like a very simple,

01:34:30   I know it might not be,

01:34:31   but it seems like the kind of thing,

01:34:32   like I said, that's a 16.1 or 16.2 feature

01:34:35   where that they just slide in there,

01:34:36   which is shortcut support and focus mode support

01:34:41   and just like a little more control

01:34:44   over the always on display.

01:34:46   - Oh, it should be one of the focus filters.

01:34:49   - Yeah, the people working on those features

01:34:51   might not even have known about the Always On Display for a while. So I feel like they're

01:34:57   going to use their own products inside Apple with the Always On Display and be like, "Oh,

01:35:01   yeah, we should do that too and then we'll see it." This doesn't feel like something

01:35:05   that's like a policy decision. It feels like it's just expediency.

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01:36:47   Our thanks to New Relic for their support of this show and all of Relay FM.

01:36:53   And I have some regular #AskUpgrade questions.

01:36:59   No birds were harmed in the firing of those lasers.

01:37:02   Oh, a bird flew by, but it's no problem.

01:37:09   Millennial Falcon asks, I promise this one, this is baseball related.

01:37:13   Friday Night Baseball on Apple TV+ broadcast the Yankees game this week, which had the

01:37:19   potential this weekend for a historic Aaron Judge home run. This is a record, right? I

01:37:25   saw about this. I saw this going around.

01:37:26   - Yeah, the American League record and the Yankees team record for home runs is 61. Roger

01:37:32   Maris and Judge as we record this is on 60.

01:37:35   - Okay. This question asks, "There was a lot of discourse about Apple letting the Yankees

01:37:41   cable channel make a deal to switch or simulcast the game because of this. How do you think

01:37:47   the relationship of streaming services and traditional cable providers will change going

01:37:51   forward, particularly for historic moments like these?

01:37:54   - Okay, so yes, there were a bunch of things. The New York Attorney General decided to make

01:38:06   some political points by saying, "Oh, how dare they charge us for this," which was funny

01:38:10   because it's free. I think it shows.

01:38:13   - Oh, ha ha ha.

01:38:14   (laughs)

01:38:15   Yeah, I haven't thought of that.

01:38:17   Anyone can just watch it.

01:38:19   - Yeah, if you've got an internet connection

01:38:20   in any device, basically you can watch it.

01:38:22   Even a laptop, you know, whatever.

01:38:24   So a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about it.

01:38:27   So yeah, she stepped in it.

01:38:32   Another thing swirling around here is this idea

01:38:38   that some stuff is only available on streaming

01:38:40   and there are people who don't understand streaming

01:38:42   or just want it on their TV like always,

01:38:45   and those tend to be very non-technical people, obviously.

01:38:49   This is part of the same conversation

01:38:50   as the NFL finally having their first streaming-only game,

01:38:55   which was Thursday nights on Amazon.

01:38:58   That's streaming-only unless you're in the local market

01:39:00   for the team, showing you, by the way,

01:39:02   that the NFL is smart and demands that every game

01:39:05   that's in a local market is shown on broadcast TV

01:39:08   in that market, which only the NFL basically does.

01:39:13   There are a few things here, like the whole purpose

01:39:15   of Apple doing this, I think, is to get people

01:39:20   to go through this process.

01:39:23   Like the process of realizing you don't have Apple TV

01:39:26   and how do you get it and what is it

01:39:28   and do I have a device that supports it

01:39:31   is sort of a point.

01:39:32   They want more addressable people

01:39:35   who are able to get to Apple TV

01:39:38   and Apple TV Plus.

01:39:40   And keeping in mind that's pretty much any computer

01:39:43   'cause you can use the web

01:39:46   and then obviously Apple devices

01:39:48   and other connected boxes and TVs and stuff.

01:39:51   But the goal is to like get everybody to say,

01:39:54   well, how do I get this?

01:39:56   Just like Amazon's goal is how do I get

01:39:58   the NFL on Thursday nights?

01:40:00   And the answer is you've got to become a Prime subscriber

01:40:02   and get the hardware for it.

01:40:04   And Amazon will sell you something

01:40:05   'cause Amazon makes hardware for it, right?

01:40:07   So it's all part of the point.

01:40:09   I get why people are mad

01:40:11   because it's a different way of doing it,

01:40:13   but it is kind of the point.

01:40:16   Now for something like the Aaron Judge home run,

01:40:19   my guess, and I don't know this for sure,

01:40:21   but like, also I wonder if the New York attorney general

01:40:26   like has a friend at the Yes Network or something,

01:40:30   'cause they're like, "Oh, well, you know, how dare they?

01:40:32   Let's let the Yankees cable channel get it."

01:40:34   Well, wait a second.

01:40:35   First off, the Yankees cable channel,

01:40:36   You have to pay for cable TV to get that.

01:40:39   That's outrageous. You have to pay for that.

01:40:42   I wonder, given that everybody's got, like,

01:40:44   so many people have smartphones and computers

01:40:46   on the Internet these days,

01:40:49   is it more accessible on a cable channel

01:40:52   than it would be free on the Internet?

01:40:55   I'm not sure. It would just be different.

01:40:58   And what they're saying is,

01:40:59   "We're used to watching Yankees games on the 'Yes' network,

01:41:02   so why can't we watch this one?"

01:41:03   The answer is, because Apple paid Major League Baseball

01:41:05   lot of money. That's the answer. If I were Apple and Major League Baseball, what I would

01:41:12   probably do is have a wink-wink nudge-nudge conversation about maybe showing Aaron judges

01:41:21   at bats on, I would say, MLB network, not on YES, but maybe it's the YES network, because

01:41:29   that's going to be limited to the Yankees territory, that's their cable network. One

01:41:35   of those, just as a way to give cover for this whole thing of being like, "Well, his

01:41:42   at-bats will be on the Yes Network. If you want to see history, we'll let you see those.

01:41:46   But everybody else is going to have to get it through Apple TV." So, I mean, my feeling

01:41:52   is that I get that this is painful, but this is where the money is, and sports leagues

01:41:57   want money. Sports leagues get money, they make the team ownership more valuable, which

01:42:04   owners like, they give the teams money to pay the players which the players like. It's

01:42:09   a money-making enterprise and right now Apple and Amazon and the like are able to pay more

01:42:14   money for this stuff because they have an external motivation which is to increase their

01:42:20   ecosystem by getting more people who are engaging with their platform, whatever it is. And you

01:42:26   know the truth is Amazon got 13 million people to watch live their first Thursday Night Football

01:42:33   broadcast and they had the they said the most prime signups in a three-hour

01:42:37   period of all time on Thursday during the game and just before the game that's

01:42:42   why they're doing this and that's why Apple is doing this because once you've

01:42:45   got Apple TV watching that for free they can give you some other stuff for free

01:42:49   they're gonna do some MLS games for free starting next year and now you hear

01:42:53   about Ted Lasso or whatever and you're like oh yeah I did that Apple TV I know

01:42:56   how to get that and you're sliding into the ecosystem that's why they do it so

01:43:02   my feeling is that while I'm sympathetic always to local fans who are so

01:43:08   used to watching their games on their local cable channels and especially the

01:43:12   ones who are uncomfortable with the idea of doing streaming, my answer is not

01:43:20   "yes we should give it to them the way they're accustomed because

01:43:26   they don't want to change." My answer is the world is changing, you got to change.

01:43:31   That's it. Bottom line, the world is changing and if you want to be a sports

01:43:35   fan in the 2020s, guess what? Get used to streaming or get used to disappointment.

01:43:41   Yeah, I kind of like, personally, I have no sympathy to this idea that, oh, a

01:43:48   historic thing should happen in the place where it's always happened. No,

01:43:53   I'm sorry, that's not how this works. Like, what, we all have to just accept that

01:44:00   like this old cable channel must get every,

01:44:04   like no, this isn't, right,

01:44:07   like if it has to be that way,

01:44:09   then these rights should never be allowed to be disputed,

01:44:11   like to be sold to anybody else.

01:44:13   Well they can be, so because they can be,

01:44:15   you just have to move to wherever it is.

01:44:18   Like this is, I know it sucks,

01:44:20   but like sports are expensive,

01:44:21   and like this is just what it's like these days,

01:44:23   but hey, this one was free, so you know.

01:44:26   - Yeah, yeah, that blunts the argument even more, right,

01:44:28   that it's totally free.

01:44:29   You just have to change.

01:44:30   And it's like, I have some sympathy.

01:44:33   I do because it's like you're asking people

01:44:36   to change their habits.

01:44:37   I get it.

01:44:39   But there are limits to my sympathy, right?

01:44:44   And at this point, if you're a baseball fan,

01:44:47   or especially if you're an MLS fan, by the way,

01:44:51   but if you're, you know, you just, you have to,

01:44:53   you have to get with the times.

01:44:55   This is just how it is.

01:44:55   And the money is why they do it.

01:44:58   And it's not Apple's fault.

01:44:59   It's -- Major League Baseball took the money

01:45:01   and then distributed it to all the teams

01:45:04   because they liked the money for those games,

01:45:06   and that's just -- that's just where we are.

01:45:08   Now, I have, you know, criticisms of the way

01:45:11   some companies have handled their sports rights

01:45:14   in the streaming era.

01:45:15   The biggest one here in America is that,

01:45:17   if you're a fan of the English Premier League,

01:45:20   NBC has the rights, and while most of the games

01:45:24   are on their Peacock streaming service,

01:45:27   they hold a couple of games and put them on cable TV,

01:45:30   which means if you're a cord cutter,

01:45:32   you can see all the Premier League games

01:45:34   except the two best ones.

01:45:35   And for that, you have to buy cable,

01:45:38   which costs a fortune.

01:45:39   But you know what?

01:45:39   NBC's owned by the cable company.

01:45:41   That's why they do it.

01:45:44   So that's just, I don't love that,

01:45:47   but that's where we are.

01:45:48   And that's just the facts.

01:45:50   And if you wanna get mad at somebody,

01:45:53   I guess get mad at Major League Baseball

01:45:54   and the owners of your teams,

01:45:55   because they're the ones who prioritize money

01:45:58   over everything else.

01:45:59   They're why umpires have cryptocurrency logos

01:46:01   on their jerseys.

01:46:02   That's why there'll be ads on baseball jerseys next year,

01:46:05   because of the money.

01:46:06   They, the guy who runs Major League Baseball--

01:46:10   - I gotta say, I didn't know this,

01:46:11   that is hilarious to me that the referee's got ads

01:46:13   before the teams. (laughs)

01:46:15   - Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, last year.

01:46:17   - Oh man, that's funny.

01:46:18   - And the guy who runs Major League Baseball, Rob Manfred,

01:46:21   He is a lawyer who was one of their chief negotiators

01:46:26   in fighting against the union.

01:46:30   And his charter from his owners is very simple,

01:46:34   which is if there's any deal you can make

01:46:36   that gives us more money, say yes.

01:46:39   And so they've got official gambling partners now.

01:46:43   And I'm not a fan of the commissioner.

01:46:46   I think Major League Baseball is particularly craven.

01:46:49   I actually think that making streaming deals is very low

01:46:52   on the list of deals that they've made just for the money,

01:46:55   but it's all on the list.

01:46:57   So anyway, that's baseball talk.

01:46:59   And generally, sports and streaming.

01:47:01   Sports is valuable, and it's valuable to streamers.

01:47:04   And so in this decade, if you're a fan of sports,

01:47:06   you're gonna have to navigate

01:47:08   all of the different streaming deals that are happening,

01:47:10   because that's where the money is.

01:47:12   And you know what?

01:47:13   The rich people who own teams

01:47:15   didn't get rich by not turning down.

01:47:18   Well, it didn't get rich by turning down

01:47:20   somebody handing them a big check.

01:47:22   It's like, that's part of the rich person deal, I think,

01:47:25   is like, hey, here's a deal

01:47:26   where the world's most valuable company

01:47:28   writes you a big check for a couple of your games every week.

01:47:30   It's like, yeah, take the money.

01:47:32   Take the money, Rob.

01:47:33   - Greg asks, "With iOS 16 being released now,

01:47:38   "is it close enough to release,

01:47:41   "to upgrade to Ventura on my everyday Mac?

01:47:44   "How is Ventura right now?"

01:47:47   I think it's okay, there's still some quirks.

01:47:49   I have had some, now that Audio Hijack from Rogue Amoeba

01:47:52   works on it, there's still a few quirks here and there.

01:47:55   It's still in beta.

01:47:56   I don't know, I mean, you've waited this long.

01:48:00   Part of my argument might be you've waited this long,

01:48:01   you could wait a little bit longer

01:48:03   for them to iron out some of the bugs.

01:48:05   But I've also been using it for months now,

01:48:07   and it doesn't feel particularly unstable.

01:48:11   So if you wanted to do it, you'll probably be fine.

01:48:14   Check to see what's compatible, et cetera, et cetera.

01:48:17   the usual caveats apply,

01:48:19   because a lot of your favorite developers

01:48:20   are not focused on shipping that Mac update

01:48:23   until day one of Ventura.

01:48:27   So they may not be there in the beta.

01:48:30   And if there are apps you care about,

01:48:32   you should ask them, you know,

01:48:34   ask them if they're compatible,

01:48:35   ask if there's a test flight that you could get on

01:48:37   to use the beta that is compatible.

01:48:39   But in terms of day-to-day kind of use,

01:48:42   I've had no issues really with Ventura for months.

01:48:46   - Yeah, I feel like Mac OS is like for developer support,

01:48:51   for app support, a little bit more precarious than iOS.

01:48:55   Just because you could be using many more apps

01:48:59   that just don't work anymore because of some security change

01:49:03   or some change of some kind.

01:49:04   Like it just feels like because software's been around

01:49:06   for way longer on the Mac, like maybe you're relying

01:49:09   on something that needs some updating, some tweaking.

01:49:13   I always wait, like Mac OS, I know why you do it,

01:49:16   you write a review, but like for me, I never put macOS

01:49:19   on my machines.

01:49:21   - Yep, totally get it.

01:49:22   - I'm going to install Ventura on day one on my MacBook Air,

01:49:27   because I'm really excited about stage manager.

01:49:31   I'm like, can't wait.

01:49:32   I know it's like not a thing you're used to hearing

01:49:35   these days, but like I cannot wait for stage manager

01:49:37   on the Mac.

01:49:38   I think it's gonna be really great for the way I do my work,

01:49:41   but I'm gonna hold off like maybe a few extra days,

01:49:43   maybe a week or two before I put it on my production recording and editing computer

01:49:50   because I just want to make sure everything is 100% before I do that. It's also a big

01:49:57   hassle and it's the machine that I really don't want anything to go wrong on. It's

01:50:02   why I would usually wait a whole release before upgrading because it was fine. But if I do

01:50:10   actually come to really enjoy Sage Manager on the Mac, I will want it on this machine

01:50:14   a lot too. As well as just my kind of like daily work machine as well. But yeah, I agree

01:50:21   with Jason, if you've gotten to the end of September, just keep waiting, just wait. Just

01:50:27   wait. You're so close. Just wait. We would love your Ask Upgrade questions. If you would

01:50:34   like to send them in for us to answer on the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag

01:50:38   Ask Upgrade or you can use ?AskUpgrade in the RelayFM members Discord which you get access

01:50:44   to if you subscribe to Upgrade Plus. Go to GetUpgradePlus.com and you can sign up, it's

01:50:50   $5 a month or $50 a year and you get longer ad-free versions of every single episode of

01:50:56   Upgrade. Thank you so much to everybody that does that, supports the show, it really means

01:51:00   a lot to us and we hope that you enjoy Upgrade Plus for that. So thank you to everybody that

01:51:05   it does. I would also like to thank our sponsors of this week's episode, New Relic, Rogue

01:51:10   Amoeba, ZocDoc and DoorDash, but of course thank you for listening. If you want to find

01:51:16   Jason's work online, including his iPhone 14 review, go to SixColors.com. Jason is @JasonL,

01:51:23   JSN E double L on Twitter. I am @imike, I am Y K E. Once again, please go and check

01:51:30   out our fundraising campaign for St. Jude. We have just a few more days to go. Go to

01:51:35   stjude.org/relay and also you can catch our closing ceremonies on September 30th. We're

01:51:42   going to be streaming that on my Twitch channel, twitch.tv/mikehurley. Go to mike.live for

01:51:46   that and we hope to see you there as you hang out with us and have some fun. We'll be back

01:51:52   next week. Until then, say goodbye Jason Sonnell. Goodbye Myke Hurley.

01:51:57   [MUSIC]