Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► (beep)

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:03 ◼   ► - From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 426.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by DoorDash,

00:00:15 ◼   ► ZokDok, Rogue Amoeba, and New Relic.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hi, Jason.

00:00:21 ◼   ► - Hi, Myke, are you home now?

00:00:23 ◼   ► - Sure am.

00:00:24 ◼   ► - Oh, good, that's good.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Welcome back. - That's good.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:00:28 ◼   ► The time in the evening, you know, it's not so good.

00:00:31 ◼   ► I liked recording it that one time we did it in the morning.

00:00:33 ◼   ► You know, that was nice.

00:00:34 ◼   ► I liked doing that. - Yeah.

00:00:36 ◼   ► - You know, back in the evening again.

00:00:38 ◼   ► And I have a #snowtalk question.

00:00:41 ◼   ► It comes from Will.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Will wants to know, Jason,

00:00:44 ◼   ► is there a more beautiful baseball park, ballpark,

00:00:47 ◼   ► than Oracle Park?

00:00:48 ◼   ► I'm not even a Giants fan,

00:00:50 ◼   ► but I'll watch Giants home games

00:00:51 ◼   ► just to see the baseball on the waterfront.

00:00:54 ◼   ► - Hey, Will.

00:00:56 ◼   ► I think you're right,

00:00:58 ◼   ► although it's very hard for me to judge

00:01:00 ◼   ► 'cause that's the ballpark I've been to the most

00:01:02 ◼   ► of any ballpark.

00:01:03 ◼   ► But I would say it's my favorite.

00:01:07 ◼   ► Is there a more beautiful ballpark than Oracle Park?

00:01:09 ◼   ► I will recommend a couple.

00:01:11 ◼   ► PNC Park in Pittsburgh is beautiful.

00:01:14 ◼   ► And also on the water, it's on the river in Pittsburgh.

00:01:18 ◼   ► And Petco Park in San Diego is great.

00:01:21 ◼   ► It doesn't have the water view,

00:01:22 ◼   ► but it's right there on the water and San Diego is awesome.

00:01:25 ◼   ► So those are my other, I'd say two favorites right now.

00:01:29 ◼   ► There are lots of nice ballparks

00:01:31 ◼   ► and lots of kind of boring ballparks,

00:01:33 ◼   ► but it used to be that baseball parks were bad

00:01:35 ◼   ► and then they build a bunch of good ones.

00:01:36 ◼   ► So that's good if you're a baseball fan wherever you live,

00:01:39 ◼   ► because I think almost, you know, sorry Oakland.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Sorry Tampa, but otherwise everybody's doing great.

00:01:49 ◼   ► - I don't know the Oakland and Tampa violence, but.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Tampa has a dome that is was made a long time ago and so you're watching baseball inside

00:01:58 ◼   ► on with weird catwalks and stuff like that and it's generally considered bad and Oakland

00:02:04 ◼   ► it's just very old and they took a good stadium and they ruined it and now they're not maintaining

00:02:07 ◼   ► it because they want a new stadium so it's getting progressively worse it's a sad situation

00:02:12 ◼   ► and I feel for the fans of Oakland because their owners are terrible yeah there's a little

00:02:17 ◼   ► baseball talk there Myke I know you I know you're you know getting into American sports

00:02:21 ◼   ► now. I've only seen a MLB game at Citi Field. That's where I went to, which is the Mets

00:02:29 ◼   ► game. I haven't been to Citi Field. I went to the old Shea Stadium, but I have not been

00:02:34 ◼   ► to Citi Field yet. I went to both of the New York stadiums and then they tore them down

00:02:40 ◼   ► and replaced them with new ones that I haven't been to, so I guess I'm gonna have to go back

00:02:43 ◼   ► to New York sometime. Yeah, very helpful to replace those. I was looking at some pictures

00:02:48 ◼   ► of Oracle Park today when I was picking this question. And I thought it did look very nice.

00:02:54 ◼   ► I've driven past it. I've been in that area a bunch of times in San Francisco. And that

00:02:59 ◼   ► looks like a great place to watch a baseball game, I will say.

00:03:02 ◼   ► Yeah, it's beautiful.

00:03:03 ◼   ► If they hit a home run, could they hit it into the water? Or is that too far?

00:03:09 ◼   ► It's called a splash hit, Myke. And yes, they've hit a couple hundred in there, yeah.

00:03:13 ◼   ► Yes, splash hit?

00:03:15 ◼   ► Splash hit.

00:03:16 ◼   ► Wow, it's got its own name.

00:03:17 ◼   ► It does. There's a little sign that counts how many the Giants have hit. It's at like

00:03:22 ◼   ► 96 or something now, and then the opposing team doesn't count for that, but they've also

00:03:25 ◼   ► hit about that many, so like I said, it's about 200.

00:03:28 ◼   ► So, splash hits only occur at Oracle Park?

00:03:33 ◼   ► Uh, no, although they occur most often at Oracle Park, and it's got to be on the fly.

00:03:39 ◼   ► You can also bounce it in.

00:03:40 ◼   ► It could occur anywhere if you hit it hard enough.

00:03:43 ◼   ► Hard enough, yeah. You could just need the nearest body of water. However, most bodies

00:03:47 ◼   ► of water are not that close. Did they do it in Cincinnati or maybe it was in Pittsburgh?

00:03:54 ◼   ► There's one place where I saw that they actually did do it where it hit into the river and

00:03:59 ◼   ► that was very impressive because that's extremely hard to do there. It's kind of hard. You got

00:04:04 ◼   ► to be a left-handed hitter basically and hit it right down the line to get it out into

00:04:07 ◼   ► the water on the fly into McCovey Cove which is the name of the little water out there.

00:04:14 ◼   ► they've done it yeah a couple hundred times it's pretty cool. Baseball fans are

00:04:18 ◼   ► gonna be very happy with today's episode because I also have a baseball relay to

00:04:21 ◼   ► ask upgrade for you later on. It's like Christmas morning, fantastic. I love it.

00:04:27 ◼   ► I mean or opening day I guess. It's more like opening day I feel like. Okay that is the

00:04:31 ◼   ► Christmas morning of baseball. Open the gate, roll out the baseballs. Here we go.

00:04:34 ◼   ► That's what everybody does. If you would like to send in a question for us to open a future

00:04:38 ◼   ► episode of upgrade just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snailtalk or use

00:04:42 ◼   ► question marks and I'll talk in the relay FM members discord. And a little real

00:04:46 ◼   ► time follow-up a listener Chris pointing out that there is a swimming pool outside

00:04:51 ◼   ► the the fence in Arizona. Okay. That's not as exciting to hit it into a swimming

00:04:56 ◼   ► pool but it is kind of fun to hit the ball into the swimming pool and they do

00:05:00 ◼   ► hit home runs into the swimming pool there. There you go. You know just baseball's

00:05:05 ◼   ► landing in water it's great. Splash hit. Yep. Oh this will be the last time

00:05:11 ◼   ► this month that we encourage Upgradients to go to donate to St. Jude Children's

00:05:16 ◼   ► Research Hospital as we are fast approaching the end of September.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Oh yeah. I am absolutely thrilled to say that we have met and exceeded our goal

00:05:28 ◼   ► that we set for ourselves this year which was just shy of $495,000.

00:05:32 ◼   ► As we record this episode we have raised $514,785 for the kids of St. Jude.

00:05:39 ◼   ► What that means Jason is over the last four years the relay FM community has

00:05:44 ◼   ► come together and raised over two million dollars now for the kids of St.

00:05:48 ◼   ► Jude which is an absolutely incredible thing and it's a number that I struggle

00:05:55 ◼   ► to conceive of at this point you know it's like it's such a large number like

00:05:58 ◼   ► two million dollars so incredible and I am I am and we are we all are so

00:06:05 ◼   ► thankful for the support of our listeners to raise these incredible

00:06:10 ◼   ► amounts of money for the kids of St. Jude and this is for a very incredibly

00:06:15 ◼   ► good cause because St. Jude Children's Research Hospital has a simple mission

00:06:19 ◼   ► which is finding cures and saving children because cancer kills more

00:06:23 ◼   ► children under the age of 14 than any other disease. It is a horrible thing and

00:06:27 ◼   ► with the work of St. Jude they are both treating children who have these

00:06:31 ◼   ► life threatening diseases but also developing research and developing trials and cures to

00:06:40 ◼   ► tackle childhood cancer. For example in 2021 they created a clinical trial which reported

00:06:47 ◼   ► more than 20 point improvement in survival rates for high risk neuroblastoma, the second

00:06:52 ◼   ► most common solid tumour in children, using an antibody produced at St Jude and then share

00:06:58 ◼   ► this research of the whole world.

00:07:25 ◼   ► In Childhood Cancer Awareness Month it is an opportunity in September for us to come

00:07:28 ◼   ► together to fight against childhood cancer because together we can make a big impact.

00:07:32 ◼   ► So I will still urge you to go to stgeo.org/relay where you can donate.

00:07:37 ◼   ► If you donate $60 or more you will receive a digital bundle which has a wallpaper, a

00:07:41 ◼   ► Mac OS screensaver pack wonderfully created by Mr James Thompson of Peacock fame which

00:07:46 ◼   ► is just unbelievable.

00:07:47 ◼   ► I can't wait for people to get these.

00:07:50 ◼   ► I think it will just be a couple of weeks now and people will start getting the Mac

00:07:53 ◼   ► OS screensaver.

00:07:54 ◼   ► I actually want to on Friday me and Steven are going to be doing a final total celebration

00:08:01 ◼   ► stream so it's going to be on Friday September 30th at 12pm US Eastern time.

00:08:06 ◼   ► We're going to hang out and play some games and close the fundraising campaign.

00:08:10 ◼   ► We've never done this before.

00:08:11 ◼   ► Usually we just close it and celebrate in like a Discord chat between us and the people

00:08:15 ◼   ► at St. Jude but we actually did say we're going to close it and announce the final total.

00:08:19 ◼   ► On that stream I'm going to show the screensaver.

00:08:23 ◼   ► So if you've been wanting to see what it looks like in all of its incredible glory,

00:08:28 ◼   ► I'm gonna find a way to show some of it on the, with some, you know, really good DRM.

00:08:32 ◼   ► I don't know how I'm gonna do that, you know, DRM it.

00:08:35 ◼   ► I basically, I'm just gonna show you what my laptop looks like running on.

00:08:38 ◼   ► So I want people to see it, but people are gonna freak out when they see this thing,

00:08:42 ◼   ► it's so good.

00:08:43 ◼   ► All right, Myke, I direct your attention to the live Relay FM page of top donors to see

00:08:50 ◼   ► see my official on-air $1,000 donation.

00:08:55 ◼   ► - Woo, look at Jason's snow. - TV relay campaign.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Did it just now.

00:08:58 ◼   ► Been waiting, been biding my time.

00:09:00 ◼   ► I was traveling and was not able to sneak in there

00:09:04 ◼   ► and put you over any of your milestones.

00:09:09 ◼   ► So I just decided I'm doing it on upgrade.

00:09:12 ◼   ► - Doing it live.

00:09:13 ◼   ► - So there it is.

00:09:14 ◼   ► I can't get high up on the leaderboard,

00:09:17 ◼   ► but I can push it up by a thousand.

00:09:19 ◼   ► So now $453,713, amazing.

00:09:24 ◼   ► - That's on the relay campaign.

00:09:26 ◼   ► So this is like that whole thing,

00:09:28 ◼   ► but then including all of the sub campaigns,

00:09:30 ◼   ► which people set up throughout the month,

00:09:33 ◼   ► which is incredible.

00:09:34 ◼   ► The hundreds of people that set up their own campaigns.

00:09:37 ◼   ► That's how we have gotten to 515,000.

00:09:39 ◼   ► It's something that like didn't know

00:09:41 ◼   ► how that was gonna go this year

00:09:42 ◼   ► and could not be more thrilled at the many listeners.

00:09:47 ◼   ► But I'm giving, I'm not doing one of those campaigns.

00:09:49 ◼   ► I'm just doing it straight into Relay FM.

00:09:52 ◼   ► - So we're now at $515,785.

00:09:55 ◼   ► - You're welcome.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Boom.

00:09:57 ◼   ► - So, stgeo.org/relay and don't forget to join us

00:10:00 ◼   ► on Friday, September 30th at 12 p.m. U of C Eastern time.

00:10:04 ◼   ► We'll hang out, play some games

00:10:05 ◼   ► and we'll close the fundraising campaign together.

00:10:07 ◼   ► Thank you so much to everybody

00:10:08 ◼   ► for the support throughout the month.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Apple Watch Ultra, I wanted to do a bit of follow out

00:10:15 ◼   ► to this, you don't have one, right?

00:10:18 ◼   ► - I do not, alas.

00:10:20 ◼   ► - And I don't have one, Steven has one,

00:10:23 ◼   ► 'cause he bought one, and we're gonna talk about that

00:10:27 ◼   ► on Connected this week.

00:10:29 ◼   ► So I don't think, I was not planning on bringing it up

00:10:31 ◼   ► on today's episode, 'cause I don't have any opinions.

00:10:33 ◼   ► I still wanna go to an Apple store and try one on,

00:10:37 ◼   ► but I'm not, you know, it's not gonna be a thing

00:10:40 ◼   ► that I think we're gonna talk about

00:10:41 ◼   ► in a lot of detail on the show, so.

00:10:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, they sent me a Series 8, which is weird,

00:10:45 ◼   ► 'cause the Series 8, there's almost nothing to say about it.

00:10:47 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:10:48 ◼   ► - And I would love to try out the Ultra,

00:10:53 ◼   ► because I think it's the interesting product, right?

00:10:56 ◼   ► But I'm looking forward to hearing

00:10:58 ◼   ► what Steven's got to say about it.

00:11:00 ◼   ► - It's been really interesting as people are getting them,

00:11:02 ◼   ► 'cause they started arriving on Friday, right?

00:11:04 ◼   ► And I feel like I was seeing way more people

00:11:08 ◼   ► on like Twitter and Instagram and stuff with it

00:11:11 ◼   ► than I was expecting.

00:11:13 ◼   ► Like it really feels like, and I get it,

00:11:15 ◼   ► like people like they want it,

00:11:16 ◼   ► it's the new big fancy watch.

00:11:19 ◼   ► Like people that I know that aren't like rock climbers

00:11:22 ◼   ► in my life, you know, getting one of these things.

00:11:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:11:26 ◼   ► - It looks cool.

00:11:27 ◼   ► - All the rock climbers in your life.

00:11:28 ◼   ► - The thing that I, from the images that I've seen,

00:11:31 ◼   ► the thing that seems visually most interesting to me

00:11:33 ◼   ► is the flat screen.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Like there's something about that that looks way cooler

00:11:37 ◼   ► than I was expecting.

00:11:39 ◼   ► probably just 'cause it's different.

00:11:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, it's the biggest design change

00:11:45 ◼   ► to an Apple Watch, right?

00:11:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

00:11:49 ◼   ► I'm curious about it.

00:11:51 ◼   ► I've heard some people report that the problem is

00:11:53 ◼   ► that there's no guard on the action button,

00:11:55 ◼   ► so you can hit the action button by mistake a lot.

00:11:58 ◼   ► - Interesting. - It's kind of funny.

00:11:59 ◼   ► They guarded the other buttons, but not that one.

00:12:01 ◼   ► But I don't know, I'm curious.

00:12:03 ◼   ► I think the action button's very interesting

00:12:05 ◼   ► in terms of software and user interface

00:12:07 ◼   ► in a way that we haven't really had before,

00:12:09 ◼   ► and I wonder, as we've speculated about,

00:12:11 ◼   ► if it might be coming to the rest of the Apple Watches

00:12:13 ◼   ► at some point, have an extra button,

00:12:15 ◼   ► but that they did it here first.

00:12:17 ◼   ► But we'll see how useful it actually is

00:12:20 ◼   ► and how good it is and how software is, you know,

00:12:23 ◼   ► built to take advantage of it.

00:12:25 ◼   ► - Got some follow up for you.

00:12:27 ◼   ► - Okay. - On my iPhone setup.

00:12:29 ◼   ► So, - Yes.

00:12:32 ◼   ► - Lasted with it a few more days after we spoke.

00:12:35 ◼   ► You know, if you remember, I had a very bad experience

00:12:38 ◼   ► with transferring my iPhone.

00:12:41 ◼   ► I don't know exactly what happened.

00:12:43 ◼   ► I did the device-to-device transfer,

00:12:45 ◼   ► and it was really bad, and I wasn't signed

00:12:47 ◼   ► into any applications, really.

00:12:49 ◼   ► And a bunch of settings and apps got all messed up.

00:12:51 ◼   ► I actually heard from a bunch of upgradients

00:12:53 ◼   ► who had similarly frustrating iPhone transfers.

00:12:57 ◼   ► Also, those that went perfect.

00:12:58 ◼   ► Really, I feel like this is one of those things

00:13:00 ◼   ► that's like a luck of the draw.

00:13:02 ◼   ► But I think what I have learned from this experience

00:13:05 ◼   ► is if it doesn't work, do it again, right?

00:13:09 ◼   ► Which is what you recommended I do,

00:13:11 ◼   ► and I did it in the end.

00:13:12 ◼   ► I got home from my travels,

00:13:15 ◼   ► and I had some issues with my eSIM,

00:13:19 ◼   ► which was nothing to do with the iPhone being from America.

00:13:24 ◼   ► I was having some issues with my carrier.

00:13:27 ◼   ► My carrier's not ready for the eSIM at large, I feel like.

00:13:32 ◼   ► People can have them now,

00:13:34 ◼   ► but the idea of everybody just all of a sudden needing eSIMs

00:13:37 ◼   ► it's not needed here, right?

00:13:39 ◼   ► So there was just something weird on my account

00:13:41 ◼   ► where like it just, it wouldn't load the ability

00:13:45 ◼   ► for me to change the eSIM over.

00:13:48 ◼   ► And I spoke to them and they were like,

00:13:50 ◼   ► give us a couple of days.

00:13:51 ◼   ► And then like three or four days later, it worked.

00:13:54 ◼   ► And I did the transfer and it went flawlessly.

00:13:57 ◼   ► But I think they need, maybe it was just like turned off

00:13:59 ◼   ► on my account or something.

00:14:03 ◼   ► I don't know why, like, oh, it just was never enabled.

00:14:06 ◼   ► This is a plan I've had for like 10 years.

00:14:08 ◼   ► So, you know, who knows?

00:14:10 ◼   ► At some point they just never did it, right?

00:14:12 ◼   ► That actually, by the way, makes today

00:14:14 ◼   ► my first full day of using the 14 Pro Max

00:14:18 ◼   ► as my actual phone phone.

00:14:20 ◼   ► 'Cause I just got the transfer done yesterday.

00:14:24 ◼   ► But anyway, so I did that,

00:14:27 ◼   ► but I decided to go the Jason Snow route

00:14:30 ◼   ► and I restored again from iCloud.

00:14:33 ◼   ► I just started over and it worked perfectly, basically.

00:14:38 ◼   ► Within the range of what I would expect, right?

00:14:43 ◼   ► Some apps I had to sign into again,

00:14:45 ◼   ► which you always do, right?

00:14:47 ◼   ► Like all of my Slacks get signed out of,

00:14:49 ◼   ► which might be because I'm on the Slack page, I don't know,

00:14:51 ◼   ► but I get signed out of everything.

00:14:52 ◼   ► And I have to re-authenticate a bunch of things,

00:14:55 ◼   ► but it was way within the remit that I expected.

00:14:59 ◼   ► Also when I signed into some applications again,

00:15:02 ◼   ► it wasn't like, "Oh, hi, we've never heard of you before,"

00:15:05 ◼   ► right, which is what I was getting

00:15:06 ◼   ► from a lot of my applications.

00:15:08 ◼   ► - Right, because that data hadn't synced, right?

00:15:11 ◼   ► That data was not, because you had an imperfect restore

00:15:15 ◼   ► that was missing data.

00:15:17 ◼   ► And, well, that's good.

00:15:19 ◼   ► My people swear by the device-device transfer,

00:15:24 ◼   ► and I think that there are reasons why it's probably good,

00:15:28 ◼   ► but the fact is it can fail,

00:15:33 ◼   ► and then you're left with an impartial,

00:15:38 ◼   ► or not impartial, an imperfect restore, a partial restore,

00:15:42 ◼   ► and that's not good.

00:15:45 ◼   ► And it also locks up both devices for a very long time.

00:15:50 ◼   ► And that's why I prefer the iCloud restore.

00:15:55 ◼   ► And the argument is yes,

00:15:56 ◼   ► but the device to device restore is a more perfect thing

00:16:01 ◼   ► where you don't have to log in.

00:16:02 ◼   ► Like I get it.

00:16:03 ◼   ► I guess what I would say is all of the restorers

00:16:07 ◼   ► have some stuff where you're gonna have to re-log in, right?

00:16:09 ◼   ► You can't escape all of it.

00:16:11 ◼   ► Some stuff you have to re-log in anyway.

00:16:14 ◼   ► And I don't find the iCloud restore to be

00:16:18 ◼   ► that much more onerous than the regular restore.

00:16:21 ◼   ► And the advantage of the iCloud restore is

00:16:23 ◼   ► your devices are yours again very quickly,

00:16:27 ◼   ► even though they're not entirely usable right away

00:16:30 ◼   ► because they're still restoring over iCloud,

00:16:32 ◼   ► they're back in a usable state

00:16:34 ◼   ► where you could make a phone call or something

00:16:36 ◼   ► if you need to, or set up some settings.

00:16:39 ◼   ► So, yeah, and that's why I prefer the iCloud restore.

00:16:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, I hope I can remember,

00:16:45 ◼   ► or maybe Upgradients can remind me.

00:16:47 ◼   ► iCloud has worked well for me every other time

00:16:52 ◼   ► as it did this time, I'm just gonna do that.

00:16:54 ◼   ► Because what I like about the iCloud restore is,

00:16:57 ◼   ► within 15 minutes, I can at least start poking around.

00:17:00 ◼   ► - Exactly, that's one of the great things about it

00:17:03 ◼   ► is that you're not left sort of with this.

00:17:05 ◼   ► So, Julian did, to his new phone,

00:17:08 ◼   ► he did the device to device restore.

00:17:10 ◼   ► And it was like five hours and it still said it was,

00:17:15 ◼   ► it got stuck on like three hours remaining

00:17:17 ◼   ► and it didn't change, which was really annoying.

00:17:20 ◼   ► And we went out to dinner and we came back

00:17:21 ◼   ► and was still doing it.

00:17:22 ◼   ► And I basically, I forget what I did

00:17:24 ◼   ► to sort of jog it into action, but it came back

00:17:27 ◼   ► and I think it was actually done

00:17:28 ◼   ► and it had hung up on the end

00:17:31 ◼   ► because it didn't look like he was missing anything.

00:17:34 ◼   ► But it was, you know, he was without his old phone

00:17:37 ◼   ► and his new phone for hours while that was going on.

00:17:41 ◼   ► And that's, I mean, I don't like it.

00:17:45 ◼   ► I don't like that approach.

00:17:46 ◼   ► I get why people might do it.

00:17:47 ◼   ► And then there's the iTunes backup approach

00:17:49 ◼   ► which requires you to do an iTunes backup

00:17:51 ◼   ► which I'm not a fan of that either.

00:17:55 ◼   ► So it's like-

00:17:56 ◼   ► - Is it in the finder now?

00:17:58 ◼   ► - It is in the finder.

00:17:58 ◼   ► Yeah, well, yeah.

00:17:59 ◼   ► 'Cause there's no iTunes anymore, at least on the Mac.

00:18:02 ◼   ► So yeah, it's a, and that is, can be kind of shaky.

00:18:06 ◼   ► Kind of, there are a lot of quirks there.

00:18:08 ◼   ► Again, it's not that it doesn't work because if it works,

00:18:11 ◼   ► it will do a full restore and that's great,

00:18:14 ◼   ► but there are lots of cases where it doesn't work.

00:18:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm happy now I'm all set up again

00:18:19 ◼   ► and I'm never going to doubt you or iCloud ever again.

00:18:22 ◼   ► - Okay, thank you.

00:18:23 ◼   ► I'm glad we got there.

00:18:25 ◼   ► I have some follow-up about my Apple Watch,

00:18:28 ◼   ► which I said last week, I was like,

00:18:30 ◼   ► "Oh, my Apple Watch is fine.

00:18:32 ◼   ► It just came right over, bloop, bloop, no problem."

00:18:35 ◼   ► And then I said,

00:18:37 ◼   ► but I think I said I had a connectivity issue

00:18:39 ◼   ► where it was like,

00:18:40 ◼   ► "Well, why is it not connecting to cellular?"

00:18:41 ◼   ► And it was sporadically not connecting to cellular

00:18:44 ◼   ► and that was weird.

00:18:45 ◼   ► It turns out that what also happened is I was actually in a zombie Apple Watch state where it actually wasn't a successful transfer and it ended up in the famous, I know Marco mentioned this on ATP last week, the famous, the Apple Watch thinks it's fine, but no phones will admit to being connected to it.

00:19:11 ◼   ► My old phone isn't connected to it.

00:19:13 ◼   ► My new phone is like, would you like to set up an Apple watch?

00:19:16 ◼   ► And I'm like, well, wait a second.

00:19:17 ◼   ► I thought I transferred my Apple watch over here.

00:19:19 ◼   ► Ah, and so I had to reset my Apple watch and repair it and restore it from a backup.

00:19:27 ◼   ► That was from the day I got the phone.

00:19:30 ◼   ► And, uh, then it went back and, and it works fine now, more or less like there

00:19:37 ◼   ► were some, again, some defaults that got changed where I'd be like, oh yes, please.

00:19:41 ◼   ► put the apps in a list and you know I don't want to get a notification for this and you

00:19:45 ◼   ► need to add these apps back to the watch and that's not my favorite but I got there but

00:19:51 ◼   ► anyway my successful Apple Watch transfer was actually not successful it also ended

00:19:56 ◼   ► up in this weird in-between state and I had to reset it which was not the best.

00:20:00 ◼   ► It was definitely foreshadowing on last week's episode right when you were like sometimes

00:20:05 ◼   ► it doesn't see the phone but it seems fine I guess in those moments it's just connected

00:20:09 ◼   ► to Wi-Fi right?

00:20:10 ◼   ► The moment that the jig was up is when I was like,

00:20:13 ◼   ► "I need to adjust the setting."

00:20:14 ◼   ► "Oh, that's on the Apple Watch app on the iPhone.

00:20:17 ◼   ► "I guess I need to open that up."

00:20:18 ◼   ► And I opened it up and it said,

00:20:19 ◼   ► "Hey, welcome to Apple Watch.

00:20:21 ◼   ► "Would you like to add an Apple Watch?"

00:20:23 ◼   ► And I thought, "Oh no, like, no, no, you should know.

00:20:26 ◼   ► "We did this, we talked about this."

00:20:28 ◼   ► And it was, and that was when I realized

00:20:31 ◼   ► that the whole thing was a lie.

00:20:33 ◼   ► My Apple Watch was acting cool,

00:20:35 ◼   ► but it actually had no idea what it was doing,

00:20:38 ◼   ► and I had to restore.

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00:22:46 ◼   ► It's time for a rumor round up Jason Snow.

00:22:49 ◼   ► Oh great, bring it on.

00:22:51 ◼   ► So I have an iPhone 14 demand update from a friend of the show Ming-Chi Kuo.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Ming-Chi Kuo posted this on Medium, so it's like a post which you can see on Medium because

00:23:05 ◼   ► he does have a Medium page as well as a Twitter account now, which I like.

00:23:10 ◼   ► I love that Ming-Chi Kuo was like, "Okay, I'm tired of people getting my subscription

00:23:16 ◼   ► analyst reports in Chinese to my clients and translating them into English and reporting

00:23:22 ◼   ► them in the press. So I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to put things out there

00:23:27 ◼   ► and including in English on my Medium blog and my Twitter account. Great. It's great.

00:23:33 ◼   ► Just go to the source.

00:23:35 ◼   ► And the two kind of interesting pieces of information that me and you were talking about,

00:23:40 ◼   ► 'cause you sent me this as well.

00:23:42 ◼   ► One is that iPhone 14 Pro models

00:23:45 ◼   ► will account for 60 to 65% of shipments in H2 of 2022.

00:23:50 ◼   ► And this is based on, so Apple's done it's,

00:23:54 ◼   ► you know, they've spoken to the suppliers

00:23:56 ◼   ► and rejigged their supply chain for like,

00:23:59 ◼   ► what models will be manufactured

00:24:02 ◼   ► in larger quantities and stuff, right?

00:24:03 ◼   ► So they kind of forecast out.

00:24:05 ◼   ► And so now that they've done that

00:24:07 ◼   ► and they've made the changes to the supply chain,

00:24:09 ◼   ► This is what Meechi Kua will now expect that 60 to 65% of iPhone shipments will be the

00:24:16 ◼   ► pro models of some description with the 14 Pro Max accounting for 30 to 35% of total

00:24:23 ◼   ► iPhone 14 shipments across all of the iPhone 14 models that are currently available.

00:24:29 ◼   ► I would guess because there's no way you could know about the Plus because Apple don't

00:24:33 ◼   ► know about that yet.

00:24:34 ◼   ► Can you even pre-order the Plus yet?

00:24:36 ◼   ► I don't think so, right?

00:24:37 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:24:38 ◼   ► - I think that starts in October.

00:24:39 ◼   ► I don't know if it starts shipping in October.

00:24:40 ◼   ► I don't think you can pre-order it yet either.

00:24:41 ◼   ► But anyway, all this to say,

00:24:43 ◼   ► the iPhone 14 Pro Max is the most popular model right now.

00:24:47 ◼   ► That doesn't surprise me, right?

00:24:49 ◼   ► Does it surprise you?

00:24:50 ◼   ► - A little bit, but again, I think the lesson is

00:24:54 ◼   ► that never bet against big phones, right?

00:24:57 ◼   ► Like never, they're not, big phones are not,

00:25:00 ◼   ► we think of them or we could think of them as an outlier,

00:25:03 ◼   ► that it's the other side of the bell curve.

00:25:05 ◼   ► that's not the case, that they are very popular.

00:25:09 ◼   ► And so the idea that the 14 Pro Max is the most popular one,

00:25:12 ◼   ► those of us who don't like big phones

00:25:16 ◼   ► need to be comfortable with the fact that

00:25:18 ◼   ► the general rule is that the bigger the phone,

00:25:20 ◼   ► the more people like it.

00:25:22 ◼   ► And up to a point beyond which Apple has not gone.

00:25:26 ◼   ► So it's not surprising when you think about it that way.

00:25:30 ◼   ► I think the one caveat I would put in here

00:25:32 ◼   ► is this is the second half of this year.

00:25:34 ◼   ► And obviously there are huge sales spikes

00:25:37 ◼   ► in the second half when the new iPhones come out.

00:25:41 ◼   ► I think though, people who buy iPhones in this period

00:25:45 ◼   ► from now to the end of the year tend to be

00:25:49 ◼   ► a little more hardcore as iPhone buyers.

00:25:54 ◼   ► And so I don't wanna overstate it,

00:25:57 ◼   ► but I suspect that the mix is leaning

00:25:59 ◼   ► toward the most expensive products once they're released,

00:26:03 ◼   ► because the people who are super into it are buying them then.

00:26:06 ◼   ► Whereas my guess is that the mix is really different in April,

00:26:11 ◼   ► right, when it's not anybody who's like,

00:26:14 ◼   ► "Oh, the new iPhone, I got to get it."

00:26:15 ◼   ► It's literally somebody who says, "Oh, yeah, my iPhone broke.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I guess I need to go get a new iPhone."

00:26:20 ◼   ► And it's April, so here I am at the Apple Store in April.

00:26:23 ◼   ► -But this is the time where they sell the most iPhones, though, right?

00:26:27 ◼   ► -For sure, for sure.

00:26:28 ◼   ► I mean, there's a spike because it's new iPhones,

00:26:29 ◼   ► and the new iPhone is the biggest motivator,

00:26:31 ◼   ► but they do continue to sell them.

00:26:34 ◼   ► And I think the mix changes,

00:26:35 ◼   ► I suspect the mix changes over time.

00:26:37 ◼   ► - Oh, I have no doubt.

00:26:38 ◼   ► - But right now, they sell the most.

00:26:41 ◼   ► And right now, or just about right now, right?

00:26:46 ◼   ► Like they sell the most in the holiday quarter,

00:26:48 ◼   ► which we're not quite in, I think,

00:26:49 ◼   ► but we're getting very close.

00:26:51 ◼   ► Their quarters don't exactly line up to months,

00:26:52 ◼   ► but they're pretty close.

00:26:54 ◼   ► And so they're getting the next three months, right?

00:26:59 ◼   ► They sell the most.

00:27:00 ◼   ► And even then, I think the mix is probably

00:27:02 ◼   ► a little bit different, but regardless,

00:27:05 ◼   ► the fact is the Pro, their strategy of segmenting

00:27:08 ◼   ► these things into Pro and non-Pro,

00:27:10 ◼   ► it seems to be working in the sense that the Pro

00:27:13 ◼   ► is not some isolated, strange product.

00:27:16 ◼   ► Their most expensive base model is their most popular phone.

00:27:20 ◼   ► That's not an accident.

00:27:21 ◼   ► - Just as a real-time follow-up,

00:27:23 ◼   ► you can order the Plus right now.

00:27:25 ◼   ► - All right. - And it starts shipping

00:27:27 ◼   ► in October.

00:27:27 ◼   ► - You'll get it when you get it.

00:27:29 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:27:30 ◼   ► looking at it now on the Apple.com website.

00:27:34 ◼   ► It says delivers October 7th.

00:27:37 ◼   ► So that was the date.

00:27:40 ◼   ► So you can still order one now it seems

00:27:42 ◼   ► and it will still arrive on the day they expect it.

00:27:45 ◼   ► - Well, great.

00:27:47 ◼   ► - I never really know what to think particularly

00:27:49 ◼   ► about just general analyst statements,

00:27:54 ◼   ► but I want to bring this one up now

00:27:55 ◼   ► 'cause I just thought it was interesting.

00:27:56 ◼   ► JP Morgan, 'cause like Ming-Chi Kuo

00:27:59 ◼   ► seems to have sources that I can tie my head around,

00:28:03 ◼   ► like I can wrap my head around, right?

00:28:05 ◼   ► I feel like I can tie them together.

00:28:06 ◼   ► It's known that he's very connected in the supply chain

00:28:09 ◼   ► and he talks about that in that way.

00:28:12 ◼   ► But then when we talk about JP Morgan analysts,

00:28:15 ◼   ► are they, is this connected to anything

00:28:17 ◼   ► or is it just because they think?

00:28:18 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, right?

00:28:20 ◼   ► I don't know, but anyway.

00:28:22 ◼   ► - It's, right, it would depend on the analyst

00:28:24 ◼   ► and it would depend on their track record

00:28:25 ◼   ► and I would say we don't know.

00:28:27 ◼   ► - The presumption here is that they have sources,

00:28:30 ◼   ► but who knows if they actually have sources.

00:28:32 ◼   ► - And what I also like about Ming-Chi Kuo

00:28:34 ◼   ► is it's a person, right?

00:28:36 ◼   ► I can be like, that's what Ming-Chi Kuo said,

00:28:38 ◼   ► but JP Morgan is like, that's not a person.

00:28:41 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:28:42 ◼   ► You know what I mean? - No.

00:28:43 ◼   ► - There probably was a JP Morgan at some point.

00:28:45 ◼   ► - There was? - But that's not the person

00:28:46 ◼   ► who's talking about iPhones. - He's not around anymore.

00:28:49 ◼   ► - JP Morgan are expecting that by 2025,

00:28:52 ◼   ► 25% of iPhone production will be in India,

00:28:56 ◼   ► with 5% of iPhone 14s being made in India

00:29:00 ◼   ► by the end of 2022.

00:29:01 ◼   ► They go on to say that they expect that this 25% figure

00:29:06 ◼   ► will actually end up being the same for other product lines

00:29:09 ◼   ► that Apple makes as they continue to want to diversify

00:29:11 ◼   ► where the products are made.

00:29:13 ◼   ► But like most of this stuff is being made in China,

00:29:15 ◼   ► not entirely, but most, but to the level of 25%

00:29:19 ◼   ► across kind of the whole stuff that they make,

00:29:22 ◼   ► that is a big change.

00:29:24 ◼   ► with the caveat being, I think it's an interesting caveat,

00:29:28 ◼   ► they are still likely to be mostly produced,

00:29:31 ◼   ► if not wholly produced by Foxconn owned factories in India.

00:29:36 ◼   ► - Right.

00:29:37 ◼   ► - So I'm still not sure how diversified that is,

00:29:39 ◼   ► like, 'cause people are talking about like, you know,

00:29:41 ◼   ► what we spoke about in the show before in the past,

00:29:44 ◼   ► one of Apple's biggest risks

00:29:45 ◼   ► that all of their products are made in China

00:29:47 ◼   ► and if they end up having issues with China,

00:29:49 ◼   ► or if there's issues between

00:29:51 ◼   ► the Chinese and American governments,

00:29:52 ◼   ► it could cause a problem for Apple's business.

00:29:54 ◼   ► but Foxconn is a Chinese company.

00:29:57 ◼   ► So is that still an issue for them?

00:29:58 ◼   ► I don't know, but I think it is just good business

00:30:03 ◼   ► for them to be moving their product around

00:30:07 ◼   ► a little bit more than the way it is being done right now,

00:30:10 ◼   ► if they can do it.

00:30:12 ◼   ► - There's a bunch of things going on here, right?

00:30:13 ◼   ► There's the conversation about diversifying Apple

00:30:15 ◼   ► because it's so tied into China.

00:30:17 ◼   ► And although these factories are in India,

00:30:19 ◼   ► their contractor is a Chinese company.

00:30:24 ◼   ► However, the other part of this is geographic diversity.

00:30:29 ◼   ► It's the idea that,

00:30:31 ◼   ► remember when they couldn't make Macs for a while?

00:30:34 ◼   ► Because all the Macs were being assembled

00:30:37 ◼   ► in one region of China?

00:30:40 ◼   ► Like that's part of it too.

00:30:41 ◼   ► So I think that what's going on here is,

00:30:43 ◼   ► both of those things is,

00:30:45 ◼   ► let's not have everything happen in one country.

00:30:47 ◼   ► But also let's not have everything happen in one region,

00:30:51 ◼   ► which is why I wonder about Apple

00:30:53 ◼   ► being more geographically diverse within China

00:30:55 ◼   ► for some of its products, just to kind of keep that separate.

00:30:59 ◼   ► But I think the bigger drive is also to just get

00:31:02 ◼   ► other stuff made in other places

00:31:04 ◼   ► so that if anything happens, right,

00:31:06 ◼   ► they've got a little bit being made in different places.

00:31:10 ◼   ► This is a long process and difficult one and complicated,

00:31:13 ◼   ► and we'll see what they're doing.

00:31:15 ◼   ► But it's interesting to see that they're trying

00:31:17 ◼   ► to get some iPhone production

00:31:18 ◼   ► into some other parts of the world.

00:31:21 ◼   ► I have a mini roundup of what Mark Gurman's newsletter

00:31:25 ◼   ► spoke about this week.

00:31:27 ◼   ► As this is like the bar, you know,

00:31:29 ◼   ► like if you imagine the rumor roundup,

00:31:31 ◼   ► it like occurs within us like a Western town.

00:31:35 ◼   ► The power on newsletter is like a saloon inside of the town

00:31:39 ◼   ► because it's its own thing, right?

00:31:41 ◼   ► - Oh, I wanna make a note of something I said there

00:31:44 ◼   ► that wasn't quite right.

00:31:46 ◼   ► Foxconn technically is Taiwanese,

00:31:50 ◼   ► but they are the largest employer, private employer,

00:31:52 ◼   ► in the People's Republic of China.

00:31:54 ◼   ► So it's not a Chinese company, it's a Taiwanese company,

00:31:58 ◼   ► but it's got lots of employees in China.

00:32:00 ◼   ► So it's, you know, again, I think, I mean,

00:32:03 ◼   ► there's the question of like, what happens

00:32:04 ◼   ► if something happens between China and Taiwan?

00:32:06 ◼   ► But the idea here is it's--

00:32:09 ◼   ► - That is a good clarification to make.

00:32:11 ◼   ► - It is, yes.

00:32:12 ◼   ► It's a company based in Taiwan,

00:32:14 ◼   ► but a huge employer in China and also in other places.

00:32:18 ◼   ► but they also, they trade in China as a Chinese company

00:32:23 ◼   ► and in Taiwan as a Taiwanese company, so.

00:32:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, a lot of interlinking still going on here,

00:32:28 ◼   ► but the larger, I think the larger point is

00:32:30 ◼   ► that assembling things in a factory in India has,

00:32:35 ◼   ► you know, it's spreading it out a little bit.

00:32:37 ◼   ► That's the larger point.

00:32:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like Foxconn also have,

00:32:41 ◼   ► they're building US places,

00:32:43 ◼   ► they have, and they have places in Mexico, Malaysia, Brazil.

00:32:47 ◼   ► - Nevertheless, I think that the issue,

00:32:50 ◼   ► what I was getting, I think kind of remains of like--

00:32:53 ◼   ► - Yes, oh, I agree.

00:32:54 ◼   ► - I'm assuming that the People's Republic of China

00:32:57 ◼   ► could put a lot of pressure on Foxconn if they wanted to.

00:33:00 ◼   ► - And you know, Apple talks about,

00:33:03 ◼   ► like obviously this is politically fraught

00:33:06 ◼   ► and you don't wanna anger China

00:33:08 ◼   ► and make it seem like Apple is abandoning China

00:33:11 ◼   ► or hedging against China,

00:33:12 ◼   ► but there are other ways to pitch this.

00:33:14 ◼   ► One is the geographic diversity.

00:33:16 ◼   ► One is the fact that there are countries

00:33:17 ◼   ► like Brazil and India that want you to build the products

00:33:20 ◼   ► in their countries, otherwise there's a big tariff.

00:33:23 ◼   ► And that gives you some rationale for it.

00:33:26 ◼   ► I feel like there's all sorts of cover that you can have

00:33:31 ◼   ► for increasing where you make your stuff across the world

00:33:37 ◼   ► that makes it seem less like you're hedging against China

00:33:42 ◼   ► or imagining a scenario where you're not building things

00:33:45 ◼   ► in China while that actually sort of is happening

00:33:49 ◼   ► behind the scenes by couching it in other ways.

00:33:53 ◼   ► It's something to just watch.

00:33:54 ◼   ► This is, yeah, super complex stuff and a tough raffle.

00:33:57 ◼   ► And I'd imagine a lot of the stuff that's being built

00:34:00 ◼   ► in China is full of components that are literally

00:34:04 ◼   ► just being shipped from, or from in India,

00:34:07 ◼   ► shipped from China to India to work on it.

00:34:09 ◼   ► So it's not like it's a free supply chain by any means,

00:34:14 ◼   ► but it's something.

00:34:16 ◼   ► All right, let's go into the saloon.

00:34:17 ◼   ► - We're going back into the power on saloon.

00:34:19 ◼   ► So, according to Mark Gurman,

00:34:21 ◼   ► he was predicting there will be no October event.

00:34:24 ◼   ► Mark expects that the rest of this year's product releases

00:34:26 ◼   ► will occur via press release,

00:34:29 ◼   ► with the main focus still being on the Mac and the iPad.

00:34:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, how about that?

00:34:34 ◼   ► I mean, wraps up the upgrade draft championship

00:34:38 ◼   ► for you this year, if that's the case.

00:34:40 ◼   ► - I had not considered that.

00:34:42 ◼   ► I am now in full agreement with Mark

00:34:46 ◼   ► that this should be press releases only.

00:34:50 ◼   ► - So, you know, I read his newsletter

00:34:53 ◼   ► as being a little more equivocal than that,

00:34:55 ◼   ► but it definitely was one of these kind of like,

00:34:58 ◼   ► I don't see how this could be an event.

00:35:00 ◼   ► I see how this could be an event,

00:35:02 ◼   ► because again, a lot of these events are just a video,

00:35:05 ◼   ► but the truth is these could be press releases,

00:35:10 ◼   ► They could be briefings for press in advance of video.

00:35:15 ◼   ► - Let me get it out, I'll read the full quote.

00:35:19 ◼   ► Let me get it here, 'cause I think these things,

00:35:22 ◼   ► they kind of get spoken about backwards

00:35:24 ◼   ► and forwards a little bit.

00:35:25 ◼   ► So I've been thinking a lot lately

00:35:27 ◼   ► about Apple's remaining product releases 2022,

00:35:29 ◼   ► and he lists them, blah, blah, blah.

00:35:31 ◼   ► None of these new products is a major departure for Apple.

00:35:34 ◼   ► They'll get some processifications

00:35:35 ◼   ► and a chip that was already announced

00:35:37 ◼   ► at a formal event in June.

00:35:39 ◼   ► That has me thinking, does Apple really have enough here

00:35:41 ◼   ► to make it worth pulling together

00:35:43 ◼   ► another highly polished launch event?

00:35:45 ◼   ► It seems unlikely.

00:35:47 ◼   ► Apple may ultimately end up feeling differently,

00:35:49 ◼   ► but I think the company as of now

00:35:51 ◼   ► is more likely to release its remaining 2022 products

00:35:53 ◼   ► via press releases, updates to its website,

00:35:56 ◼   ► and briefings to select members of the press,

00:35:58 ◼   ► rather than via a major iPhone style keynote.

00:36:01 ◼   ► - Now, everything he says there is entirely reasonable.

00:36:05 ◼   ► However, I will say, at no point in there

00:36:09 ◼   ► does he say somebody at Apple

00:36:12 ◼   ► suggested any of that is true.

00:36:14 ◼   ► Now, one of the games that one can play

00:36:17 ◼   ► is to get something inside

00:36:21 ◼   ► that they're not allowed to say came from inside.

00:36:25 ◼   ► And it's possible that what he's doing here

00:36:27 ◼   ► is reasoning out loud, but his reasoning is underlied

00:36:32 ◼   ► by something he knows but can't say, right?

00:36:37 ◼   ► Like the idea that like somebody says,

00:36:39 ◼   ► well, look, you know, this can't be coming from Apple,

00:36:43 ◼   ► but I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:36:44 ◼   ► And he's like, oh, well, that informs my thought

00:36:46 ◼   ► that it's not gonna happen.

00:36:47 ◼   ► But if you take it on its surface,

00:36:49 ◼   ► it's Mark spitballing about what he thinks about this event.

00:36:53 ◼   ► I think he's got a point, right?

00:36:55 ◼   ► Which is that if it's Mac Mini,

00:37:00 ◼   ► and really it's the laptops.

00:37:02 ◼   ► And if it's M2 versions of the laptops,

00:37:04 ◼   ► but what they really are is just faster M2 Pro

00:37:07 ◼   ► and Macs versions of the existing laptops

00:37:10 ◼   ► and an iPad update,

00:37:13 ◼   ► and they're all kind of updates of existing products.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Is there an event there?

00:37:17 ◼   ► If that's all there is, I think it's a good question.

00:37:20 ◼   ► If there's, you know, there could be,

00:37:22 ◼   ► MacBook Pro is not, you know, not to be sneezed at,

00:37:27 ◼   ► but in the past,

00:37:28 ◼   ► has released MacBook Pros with no events. They did the big 16-inch MacBook Pro release with

00:37:33 ◼   ► no event. So it could be that they do this via briefings and press releases,

00:37:41 ◼   ► or briefings and a video presentation, right? Like, they could do that. So I just want to say,

00:37:51 ◼   ► though, that Mark Gurman thought about it, and I think analyzing what is known based on a lot of

00:37:58 ◼   ► of his reporting and other people's reporting,

00:38:00 ◼   ► it does feel a little bit scant for an October event,

00:38:03 ◼   ► but what he's not reporting is that his sources

00:38:06 ◼   ► inside Apple say they're not doing an October event.

00:38:09 ◼   ► So that's one of those things where it's like,

00:38:12 ◼   ► I think it's a good possibility that he's right,

00:38:15 ◼   ► but that's not the same as Mark Gurman's sources

00:38:19 ◼   ► tell him they're not doing it.

00:38:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, we can't know for sure, right?

00:38:23 ◼   ► But this is what he is talking about right now.

00:38:26 ◼   ► And I follow his line of thinking

00:38:29 ◼   ► in a certain set of circumstances, right?

00:38:32 ◼   ► Like if basically all that's happening is

00:38:36 ◼   ► the MacBook Pros will get M2 versions of their chips

00:38:40 ◼   ► and the iPad Pros will get M2 chips

00:38:42 ◼   ► with some other small updates,

00:38:44 ◼   ► it might not be like a lot, but you never know.

00:38:48 ◼   ► - Let me give the counter proposal,

00:38:51 ◼   ► which is what if they take all of that stuff,

00:38:53 ◼   ► which includes, he's right, the M2 got unveiled,

00:38:56 ◼   ► but the M2 is not that interesting.

00:38:58 ◼   ► The M2 is interesting, but the Pro and the Macs,

00:39:03 ◼   ► and they're more interesting.

00:39:06 ◼   ► And then we throw in the Mac Pro.

00:39:09 ◼   ► - And you get to reintroduce the world to macOS,

00:39:12 ◼   ► Ventura, and iPadOS 16.1.

00:39:15 ◼   ► - Right. - You can do all of that.

00:39:17 ◼   ► Like, Derek, you can make an event out of all of it.

00:39:21 ◼   ► - Right, so that's my scenario,

00:39:24 ◼   ► is if you wanted to bring in,

00:39:25 ◼   ► So one, if you wanted to bring in that rumored,

00:39:28 ◼   ► fancier external display with these laptops

00:39:31 ◼   ► and the iPad Pro, that wouldn't be a bad time to do it.

00:39:34 ◼   ► Does Mark have a read on the timing of that?

00:39:36 ◼   ► I don't know, he hasn't talked about it in a long time.

00:39:38 ◼   ► Maybe that could be on the agenda and you roll that in

00:39:41 ◼   ► because you could point that out for the iPad

00:39:43 ◼   ► and the Mac at this point.

00:39:44 ◼   ► And then the Mac Pro again,

00:39:47 ◼   ► is not gonna be a product release, right?

00:39:49 ◼   ► And Mark Gurman has reported about the Mac Pro

00:39:53 ◼   ► being in the works, but maybe not ready to go.

00:39:57 ◼   ► But they could announce that thing and boast about it

00:40:00 ◼   ► as part of the context of down in the chip lab

00:40:03 ◼   ► with M2 Pro and Max and Ultra and this thing too.

00:40:07 ◼   ► And this is what we're doing with M2

00:40:08 ◼   ► and lay it all out there and say,

00:40:11 ◼   ► the Mac Pro is coming,

00:40:13 ◼   ► you're gonna be able to pre-order it later this fall.

00:40:17 ◼   ► And it will ship by the end of the year

00:40:18 ◼   ► or ship early next year or whatever.

00:40:20 ◼   ► Like they could do that anytime.

00:40:21 ◼   ► This is not, if they can announce it months in advance

00:40:26 ◼   ► with no penalty, which I think they can,

00:40:28 ◼   ► and they've got an event that is Mac and iPad Pro,

00:40:33 ◼   ► but it's a Mac event and it's toward the end of the year,

00:40:36 ◼   ► and if it's in the window

00:40:38 ◼   ► and it's feeling a little scant on top of it,

00:40:41 ◼   ► and you're also announcing your high-end M2 chips,

00:40:44 ◼   ► like it's not the worst time to do the Mac Pro rollout

00:40:47 ◼   ► and call it an event and have it be,

00:40:49 ◼   ► give the Mac and iPad some love in a dedicated event.

00:40:52 ◼   ► It's not the worst idea in the world.

00:40:54 ◼   ► So not saying they'll do it,

00:40:56 ◼   ► I'm saying that I can think of a scenario

00:40:59 ◼   ► where you're more optimistic than Mark Gurman about this

00:41:03 ◼   ► and where Apple says, "No, we're gonna do something,"

00:41:05 ◼   ► especially if it's fairly low key, right?

00:41:08 ◼   ► Like, again, they could do a video event

00:41:11 ◼   ► with some press briefings

00:41:13 ◼   ► and not have it be the big show that the iPhone event was.

00:41:18 ◼   ► Mark also spoke about Apple Pay Later being pushed back to Spring 2023.

00:41:25 ◼   ► So I know we speak about a bunch of these things now of like Apple Installment Plans

00:41:30 ◼   ► all that kind of stuff.

00:41:31 ◼   ► The Apple Pay Later feature was announced at WWDC.

00:41:34 ◼   ► This is the thing where you can use Apple Pay to split a payment of anything really

00:41:39 ◼   ► into four payments, right?

00:41:41 ◼   ► So I think this is US only to begin.

00:41:43 ◼   ► It's kind of like these services like Klarna and stuff like that.

00:41:46 ◼   ► as I'm hearing there have been fairly significant technical

00:41:49 ◼   ► and engineering challenges in rolling out the service

00:41:52 ◼   ► leading to the delays.

00:41:54 ◼   ► Interestingly, Mark says it will be 16.4.

00:41:57 ◼   ► I'm not exactly sure how he knows it will be 16.4

00:42:02 ◼   ► in the spring, but.

00:42:03 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, he's got somebody who has looked

00:42:05 ◼   ► at the release board that has releases.

00:42:08 ◼   ► - I just found that part so funny.

00:42:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:42:13 ◼   ► - So 16.4.

00:42:15 ◼   ► - Okay, mark it down.

00:42:16 ◼   ► - There's also doubling down on the idea

00:42:18 ◼   ► that we've been talking about over the last few weeks

00:42:20 ◼   ► of the iPhone 15 Ultra replacing the Pro Max

00:42:25 ◼   ► with the 15 line also including the shift to USB-C

00:42:30 ◼   ► across all of the phones that we've been talking about.

00:42:33 ◼   ► So, Ultra is cool.

00:42:35 ◼   ► - He really likes that idea

00:42:37 ◼   ► and I think the implication there is that maybe

00:42:40 ◼   ► that is a phone that is like the Apple Watch Ultra

00:42:45 ◼   ► appreciably different from the Pro

00:42:50 ◼   ► instead of it just being a larger Pro.

00:42:53 ◼   ► And sounds good, great.

00:42:56 ◼   ► I mean that, yeah, I wonder if that's like,

00:42:59 ◼   ► if it's the camera improvements,

00:43:00 ◼   ► maybe there's a huge camera change

00:43:03 ◼   ► that only fits in the larger model.

00:43:04 ◼   ► I don't know, we'll see, Periscope, maybe.

00:43:08 ◼   ► - But if we take it back around

00:43:09 ◼   ► to the beginning of the rumor roundup,

00:43:11 ◼   ► If the Pro Max is accounting for 30 to 35%

00:43:15 ◼   ► of the current, all of the line,

00:43:19 ◼   ► maybe it's good to give it its own name.

00:43:21 ◼   ► - When it's only differentiated by size,

00:43:23 ◼   ► I'll point out, right?

00:43:24 ◼   ► Imagine what it might happen

00:43:25 ◼   ► if it was also differentiated by features

00:43:27 ◼   ► so people were even more, right?

00:43:30 ◼   ► 'Cause you could be like, I only want the best iPhone.

00:43:32 ◼   ► And then you look at the Pro and the Pro Max

00:43:34 ◼   ► and you say, eh, the Pro is still the best iPhone.

00:43:38 ◼   ► That's just a larger version of it.

00:43:40 ◼   ► I'll get that one.

00:43:41 ◼   ► But if you have ultra and it is the best

00:43:43 ◼   ► and it has some of those features, you're like,

00:43:44 ◼   ► "Oh, well then I want that one

00:43:46 ◼   ► because I only want the best iPhone."

00:43:48 ◼   ► Like it's gonna pull people,

00:43:50 ◼   ► even more people up to the high-end iPhone.

00:43:53 ◼   ► And also might let them raise the price.

00:43:54 ◼   ► So, just that too.

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00:45:51 ◼   ► all of Relay FM.

00:45:52 ◼   ► When he says that he means Z.

00:45:55 ◼   ► You know I heard it that time. Cause usually I say Z I think when I'm doing it but that's

00:45:59 ◼   ► just how it went today.

00:46:03 ◼   ► - Let's talk about the iPhone 14 line again.

00:46:05 ◼   ► So you have, I believe by the time this episode

00:46:09 ◼   ► has published, you have published your review

00:46:13 ◼   ► of the iPhone 14s.

00:46:15 ◼   ► - What the world has been waiting for.

00:46:17 ◼   ► - There's no review.

00:46:18 ◼   ► - A review posted much after the release of the product.

00:46:22 ◼   ► Yay.

00:46:23 ◼   ► - So no, I'm gonna give you some credit

00:46:25 ◼   ► 'cause I think you're being too hard on yourself.

00:46:27 ◼   ► I said this to you before we started today.

00:46:30 ◼   ► I've read your review, you sent it to me in advance.

00:46:33 ◼   ► And I think it's very good.

00:46:34 ◼   ► And in a way that I know is really hard,

00:46:37 ◼   ► because as you say, right,

00:46:38 ◼   ► like there have been so many reviews now,

00:46:41 ◼   ► and this isn't one of those like,

00:46:43 ◼   ► I've lived with it for six months,

00:46:44 ◼   ► here's re-review kind of thing.

00:46:46 ◼   ► This is eight, no, I've had it for a week,

00:46:48 ◼   ► let me tell you what I think about it.

00:46:49 ◼   ► But I think you bring your unique viewpoint to the phones,

00:46:54 ◼   ► and I think you do a really good job

00:46:55 ◼   ► of breaking down some of the interesting parts of it.

00:46:58 ◼   ► So much so that I wanted to talk about

00:46:59 ◼   ► so many things today,

00:47:00 ◼   ► if you will allow me to.

00:47:01 ◼   ► So one of the things you talk about,

00:47:04 ◼   ► and I think your whole review is framed around

00:47:06 ◼   ► something we've been talking about on the show

00:47:08 ◼   ► for the last couple of weeks,

00:47:09 ◼   ► is this being the perfect example year

00:47:14 ◼   ► of this thing that Apple's been building to for a while

00:47:18 ◼   ► and doing it on and off of like,

00:47:19 ◼   ► no, we're splitting the phone lines.

00:47:21 ◼   ► Like we call them all 14,

00:47:24 ◼   ► but there are big differences between the 14 and the 14 Pro,

00:47:27 ◼   ► the two phones that are in each, right?

00:47:29 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:47:30 ◼   ► you argue that it's good for Apple and good for buyers?

00:47:33 ◼   ► - Well, I think it is good.

00:47:35 ◼   ► It's good for Apple because they're increasing

00:47:37 ◼   ► the potential average selling price of the iPhone.

00:47:40 ◼   ► - And money, money, money, money, money, right?

00:47:41 ◼   ► You know, if you know. - Yeah, it's good.

00:47:43 ◼   ► We know all about it.

00:47:43 ◼   ► The, you know, quarterly results will come out soon

00:47:46 ◼   ► and we'll talk about that again.

00:47:47 ◼   ► But it's also good for buyers in,

00:47:52 ◼   ► I know this is a strange way to phrase this,

00:47:55 ◼   ► but think about it this way.

00:47:56 ◼   ► If you look at the Pro phones and what they have

00:47:59 ◼   ► doesn't interest you or doesn't make a difference,

00:48:01 ◼   ► you can just save your money.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Like, I mean, that's the truth of it,

00:48:04 ◼   ► is they're different and there's a true alternative

00:48:07 ◼   ► and it's a brand new phone.

00:48:09 ◼   ► And I will admit the iPhone 14 itself

00:48:11 ◼   ► is as marginally brand new as an iPhone has ever been.

00:48:16 ◼   ► Because there's so little that has changed from last year.

00:48:21 ◼   ► But it's also, you know, quite a bit cheaper

00:48:25 ◼   ► than the Pro models.

00:48:26 ◼   ► And for a lot of people, they don't care about that.

00:48:29 ◼   ► I mean, I went right through this with my son,

00:48:30 ◼   ► who I did not say he couldn't get an iPhone Pro.

00:48:35 ◼   ► And he was like, "Nah, iPhone 14's fine."

00:48:37 ◼   ► Like that was really his take on it.

00:48:39 ◼   ► And he was coming from like an iPhone 10, right?

00:48:41 ◼   ► So he was gonna pick up a lot of features anyway.

00:48:44 ◼   ► But he, yeah, he was just fine with it.

00:48:46 ◼   ► And that saved, and that made me happy

00:48:48 ◼   ► 'cause it saved me money.

00:48:50 ◼   ► - I like this, Woody, you say,

00:48:51 ◼   ► "If they're choosing," so it's about buyers,

00:48:53 ◼   ► "If they're choosing to spend money

00:48:54 ◼   ► on the more expensive phone,

00:48:55 ◼   ► they wanna know what they're getting for their money.

00:48:57 ◼   ► And if those features don't impress,

00:48:59 ◼   ► you can save your money, right?

00:49:00 ◼   ► And I like that as like,

00:49:01 ◼   ► hey, look, if you read this, you're like, I don't want it,

00:49:03 ◼   ► because I just want the 14,

00:49:04 ◼   ► well, you don't need to get this one.

00:49:06 ◼   ► And so maybe the small jump is good.

00:49:08 ◼   ► - And psychologically,

00:49:09 ◼   ► if you're gonna spend on the expensive phone,

00:49:11 ◼   ► you wanna know that you're getting your money's worth, right?

00:49:12 ◼   ► You wanna know like I'm getting something for this.

00:49:15 ◼   ► I'm not getting this just to get one more GPU,

00:49:18 ◼   ► or I'm not getting this just to get stainless steel

00:49:21 ◼   ► and a matte back of the phone, right?

00:49:24 ◼   ► Instead of the shiny one, that's slightly different.

00:49:26 ◼   ► I want tangible features.

00:49:29 ◼   ► And so over the last couple of years,

00:49:31 ◼   ► 'cause remember there was a moment with the iPhone 13

00:49:35 ◼   ► where the 13 and 13 Pro were almost identical

00:49:39 ◼   ► except for the one camera that was extra,

00:49:42 ◼   ► like everything else about them.

00:49:44 ◼   ► That was a generation where I really felt like

00:49:46 ◼   ► you should just get the non-Pro because they look better

00:49:50 ◼   ► and the differences between them are pretty minor.

00:49:53 ◼   ► And like it was kind of funny, or the 12th, right?

00:49:56 ◼   ► With the 12th generation.

00:49:58 ◼   ► 13th generation pushed it, like the ProMotion display,

00:50:00 ◼   ► like it started to pull them apart,

00:50:02 ◼   ► and now they are way apart.

00:50:03 ◼   ► They have different chips in them,

00:50:05 ◼   ► different chip generations between the 14 and the 14 Pro.

00:50:09 ◼   ► And the camera has advanced so much in the 14 Pro.

00:50:13 ◼   ► And in addition to ProMotion,

00:50:15 ◼   ► you also have the brightness,

00:50:16 ◼   ► and you have the always on display,

00:50:18 ◼   ► and you have the dynamic island.

00:50:19 ◼   ► Like they are way apart now.

00:50:22 ◼   ► And that's in a couple of cycles, you go from the 12,

00:50:25 ◼   ► where you might as well just get the low end one,

00:50:27 ◼   ► 'cause they're not really that different,

00:50:29 ◼   ► all the way to the 14, where they are way far apart

00:50:32 ◼   ► in terms of functionality.

00:50:33 ◼   ► And that's something that Apple has made a point of doing.

00:50:37 ◼   ► We talked about the idea of an Apple Watch,

00:50:39 ◼   ► or an Apple, an iPhone Ultra, like the Apple Watch Ultra.

00:50:42 ◼   ► Well, this is how it starts, right?

00:50:45 ◼   ► You've gotta, first, you gotta pull your stack of four phones

00:50:48 ◼   ► that are only different, really, in terms of looks and size,

00:50:51 ◼   ► and maybe one camera, you start pulling them apart.

00:50:54 ◼   ► And after a couple of years,

00:50:55 ◼   ► you've really started to open up

00:50:57 ◼   ► some differentiation between them.

00:50:59 ◼   ► And I think differentiation is good because it's clear,

00:51:04 ◼   ► like if you're, again, it's good for buyers too,

00:51:07 ◼   ► because it's very clear what you're buying.

00:51:09 ◼   ► There's this or this, and they are different.

00:51:11 ◼   ► And they're different enough for you to make a choice

00:51:13 ◼   ► about is the difference worth the money?

00:51:15 ◼   ► When they're all kind of muddled together,

00:51:17 ◼   ► it's not good for anyone.

00:51:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, it is interesting to think that like

00:51:21 ◼   ► within the next couple of years we could be looking at like five distinct iPhones

00:51:26 ◼   ► right if you include the SE that they make like they're distinct in some way

00:51:29 ◼   ► from each other like much more than they are now they're like five brands five

00:51:34 ◼   ► devices and they all have a slightly different set of features that is an

00:51:39 ◼   ► interesting thing like I don't like I wonder like does it get too complicated

00:51:44 ◼   ► at that point I don't know right I guess that's the thing that we'll have to see

00:51:48 ◼   ► bear out over time, but as it stands for right now, like in my position of being

00:51:53 ◼   ► somebody who's excited and interested about this stuff and talks about it

00:51:57 ◼   ► professionally, I like the idea of the differentiation because it allows for

00:52:03 ◼   ► a different dimension on what we can think about and talk about. You called

00:52:08 ◼   ► the Dynamic Island a significant evolution of iOS. Yeah, I mean it is

00:52:14 ◼   ► It is that, right?

00:52:14 ◼   ► They took, again, I admire them taking something

00:52:18 ◼   ► that they could have just seen as a blemish to hide,

00:52:23 ◼   ► which is the idea that they still have these sensors

00:52:25 ◼   ► cutting out into their screen.

00:52:26 ◼   ► And they like the edge-to-edge-ish screen,

00:52:29 ◼   ► but they want the sensors, they have to be there.

00:52:32 ◼   ► And although they don't take up as much space

00:52:34 ◼   ► as they used to, they still are cutting into the screen.

00:52:37 ◼   ► They could have hidden it.

00:52:39 ◼   ► They chose instead to use it as a prompt

00:52:43 ◼   ► to build an ongoing status feature.

00:52:46 ◼   ► I think that's great.

00:52:49 ◼   ► I think it has a lot of potential.

00:52:54 ◼   ► Also though, you can't,

00:52:58 ◼   ► I mean, well, let me back up and just say also,

00:53:01 ◼   ► this is how do you do multitasking on an iPhone.

00:53:04 ◼   ► I know that in the Unconnected Federico talks

00:53:07 ◼   ► and you guys joke about like,

00:53:09 ◼   ► split screen coming to the big iPhones and things like that.

00:53:11 ◼   ► I was like, the iPhone is just not practical

00:53:13 ◼   ► for that kind of thing, right?

00:53:15 ◼   ► It's too small.

00:53:16 ◼   ► Well, even the big one is too small.

00:53:17 ◼   ► - Well, I think that's not a joke.

00:53:19 ◼   ► Like, I think they could do it.

00:53:21 ◼   ► Like, it is no joke.

00:53:22 ◼   ► I've used Android devices that do it.

00:53:25 ◼   ► Like, is it the best?

00:53:26 ◼   ► No, but is it good in a pinch?

00:53:28 ◼   ► Yes. - No.

00:53:29 ◼   ► - Right?

00:53:29 ◼   ► It's like, you know.

00:53:30 ◼   ► - I don't know if Apple's gonna sign on

00:53:31 ◼   ► to is it the best?

00:53:32 ◼   ► No, right?

00:53:33 ◼   ► Like, that's a company. - But the thing is,

00:53:35 ◼   ► picture in picture exists.

00:53:36 ◼   ► And I can have-- - Yes, it does.

00:53:38 ◼   ► - A huge video window

00:53:40 ◼   ► that covers up a third of my display at any time.

00:53:43 ◼   ► So they can do it.

00:53:45 ◼   ► - They can, they seem really reluctant,

00:53:48 ◼   ► but the point is, look, they're trying something else here,

00:53:51 ◼   ► which is essentially Dynamic Island is allowing you

00:53:56 ◼   ► to get data from two apps at once.

00:53:58 ◼   ► And it's a background thing,

00:53:59 ◼   ► and it's like a status and notification.

00:54:01 ◼   ► It is the smallest of scales, I think I say,

00:54:04 ◼   ► of single screen multitasking, but it is multitasking.

00:54:07 ◼   ► So they are trying to build this thing in

00:54:11 ◼   ► to kind of redefine what's happening in the background

00:54:13 ◼   ► while you're using a single app,

00:54:14 ◼   ► because that's basically the metaphor on the iPhone

00:54:17 ◼   ► is there's one app at a time,

00:54:18 ◼   ► but there's other stuff going on too,

00:54:19 ◼   ► and you should know about it.

00:54:21 ◼   ► The problem is that they shipped all of this

00:54:25 ◼   ► without the Live Activities API,

00:54:30 ◼   ► which they announced in June, but hid part of,

00:54:33 ◼   ► and said, "Anyway, it's not gonna ship

00:54:36 ◼   ► until later in the fall. And I'm not entirely clear about whether it wasn't going to ship

00:54:40 ◼   ► until later, in part because it wasn't going to be ready, or whether this was entirely

00:54:46 ◼   ► just "we're going to pull that feature out because we don't want to give away the details

00:54:50 ◼   ► of what we're doing with the Dynamic Island." And you know, that's a choice they can make.

00:54:56 ◼   ► But the net result is that one of the big feeders of value into the Dynamic Island is

00:55:03 ◼   ► not available and won't be available until another software update. And meanwhile, also

00:55:10 ◼   ► the software developers have to figure out how they want to use it and implement it and

00:55:13 ◼   ► release their products with it. And I think that's a problem because it means the dynamic

00:55:16 ◼   ► island is essentially unfinished right now. And it feels unfinished. It's got like, yeah,

00:55:22 ◼   ► sure, there's some Apple apps. And if you play audio or do calls, basically, you pick

00:55:28 ◼   ► it up for free because those APIs support it. And Apple has integrated some, but not

00:55:34 ◼   ► all, of its status information in there. I'm always surprised when there's like, "Oh, when

00:55:38 ◼   ► I mute my ringer, that goes in there and my face ID goes in there, but when I activate

00:55:45 ◼   ► – oh, and if I run a shortcut, it goes in there. But if I activate Siri, no, that doesn't

00:55:52 ◼   ► do it there. What?" And every so often I see something and I'm like, "Why is that

00:55:57 ◼   ► not in the Dynamic Island.

00:55:58 ◼   ► And I think the answer is no, they didn't get to it.

00:55:59 ◼   ► So it's one of these things where,

00:56:02 ◼   ► for whatever reason or reasons,

00:56:03 ◼   ► the Dynamic Island is an unfinished feature,

00:56:07 ◼   ► or at least an unfed feature.

00:56:10 ◼   ► And so who can judge, right?

00:56:12 ◼   ► Like we're gonna all need to live with it

00:56:14 ◼   ► and see what happens and see what developers do

00:56:17 ◼   ► before we can really render a final judgment about it.

00:56:20 ◼   ► And also I'll throw out there that like the touch bar

00:56:22 ◼   ► or something like that, sorry to mention the touch bar,

00:56:24 ◼   ► but the other part of this is that Apple needs

00:56:26 ◼   ► to continue to press on it.

00:56:28 ◼   ► I think that there are places where it could be improved

00:56:31 ◼   ► and should be improved over time.

00:56:33 ◼   ► And we won't know that until next WWDC,

00:56:36 ◼   ► but I would really like Apple to show

00:56:39 ◼   ► that it thinks the Dynamic Island is important

00:56:42 ◼   ► and not a product that they release,

00:56:45 ◼   ► consider done, walk away from,

00:56:46 ◼   ► and then it fades away in a few years.

00:56:49 ◼   ► - I really do like the idea.

00:56:51 ◼   ► I hadn't considered it as multitasking,

00:56:54 ◼   ► but I guess it is and it will be.

00:56:56 ◼   ► I think this is, I know everyone's saying it,

00:56:58 ◼   ► but it really is one of these things where like,

00:57:01 ◼   ► right now for me, it's like a curiosity,

00:57:03 ◼   ► it's something I see every now and then,

00:57:05 ◼   ► it's like an animation I enjoy, you know,

00:57:08 ◼   ► that kind of stuff, there's a little piece of information

00:57:09 ◼   ► that I get, like, now whenever I put my AirPods in,

00:57:12 ◼   ► I get a battery indication immediately,

00:57:14 ◼   ► which I like, they've just put it in there, right?

00:57:16 ◼   ► Like it's little parts, it's like, oh, that's fun.

00:57:18 ◼   ► But it really is going to take the like,

00:57:21 ◼   ► well, when I order a car and I see how long it's gonna take

00:57:23 ◼   ► and you know, when I order food and I see

00:57:25 ◼   ► well, how long that's gonna be,

00:57:27 ◼   ► or when I'm keeping track of something,

00:57:30 ◼   ► all of that stuff,

00:57:31 ◼   ► that's where it's going to really come into its own,

00:57:34 ◼   ► potentially, right?

00:57:35 ◼   ► And it is hard to know right now,

00:57:38 ◼   ► will this feel like multitasking,

00:57:40 ◼   ► or will this just feel like a notification?

00:57:43 ◼   ► I don't know, but I'm intrigued.

00:57:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I do think that they've been very,

00:57:50 ◼   ► I think what I said in the article

00:57:51 ◼   ► is they've been very conservative with it, right?

00:57:52 ◼   ► They're being very careful with these features,

00:57:54 ◼   ► 'cause they don't wanna like, first off,

00:57:56 ◼   ► they can't really revamp all of iOS

00:57:58 ◼   ► because it's only on this one,

00:57:59 ◼   ► you know, two models basically right now.

00:58:03 ◼   ► But at the same time, they could do more,

00:58:05 ◼   ► they could push more things into the dynamic island.

00:58:07 ◼   ► And I'm sure that they had an internal discussion

00:58:09 ◼   ► about like what goes in there and what doesn't.

00:58:11 ◼   ► But I'm not convinced that what we're seeing

00:58:14 ◼   ► is the complete final result of that.

00:58:17 ◼   ► One, because I think they don't know.

00:58:18 ◼   ► And two, because I think there are things

00:58:20 ◼   ► that they just decided they didn't have time to reinvent.

00:58:22 ◼   ► And so they just sort of left them out there.

00:58:24 ◼   ► But I do, by opening that door,

00:58:27 ◼   ► every interruption I see on my iPhone

00:58:29 ◼   ► that is not in the dynamic island

00:58:32 ◼   ► makes me say, "Why is this not?"

00:58:35 ◼   ► And sometimes the answer is a good answer,

00:58:38 ◼   ► but sometimes I go, "Mm, I'm not,

00:58:41 ◼   ► I think that this should be there."

00:58:43 ◼   ► And they just chose, or decided they couldn't do it.

00:58:46 ◼   ► And I just think that's,

00:58:47 ◼   ► it's an interesting place to put yourself.

00:58:50 ◼   ► But I think once you say, "Here's the dynamic island,"

00:58:53 ◼   ► you are opening yourself up as Apple

00:58:56 ◼   ► to having your users go, wait a second,

00:58:59 ◼   ► if this is so great, why doesn't it do that?

00:59:02 ◼   ► And that's why it's, you know, like I said,

00:59:05 ◼   ► I don't wanna call it an unfinished feature,

00:59:06 ◼   ► but it's certainly a 1.0,

00:59:08 ◼   ► and it's a 1.0 kind of feature without developer support.

00:59:13 ◼   ► So it feels very much like that.

00:59:16 ◼   ► Like anything that ships on a brand new device

00:59:18 ◼   ► where it's revolutionary and amazing,

00:59:20 ◼   ► but all that really supports it,

00:59:21 ◼   ► that launches Apple apps and some stuff

00:59:23 ◼   ► that they've sort of swept in.

00:59:25 ◼   ► That's literally what this is, is that.

00:59:27 ◼   ► And so, you know, to be,

00:59:30 ◼   ► and I'm reviewing it in the context of an iPhone

00:59:33 ◼   ► because these iPhones are the ones that offer it right now.

00:59:37 ◼   ► But it also is really, at this point,

00:59:41 ◼   ► a software story going forward.

00:59:43 ◼   ► It's a really an iOS story.

00:59:45 ◼   ► It starts on this hardware, but then from now on,

00:59:48 ◼   ► the Dynamic Island, you know,

00:59:49 ◼   ► if we do a follow-up review about the phones,

00:59:51 ◼   ► I think that it really, there should be a follow-up review

00:59:54 ◼   ► at some point about the Dynamic Island

00:59:56 ◼   ► because where is it going?

00:59:58 ◼   ► Because the hardware is not changing, right?

00:59:59 ◼   ► It's the software that will make a change.

01:00:02 ◼   ► - One of the things that I am really intrigued about

01:00:04 ◼   ► and I actually think is good is that

01:00:06 ◼   ► all of the Dynamic Island stuff is powered

01:00:08 ◼   ► by live activities, which exists on all iPhones with iOS.

01:00:13 ◼   ► - Yes, or it's point one, right?

01:00:16 ◼   ► It's like will exist.

01:00:17 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:00:18 ◼   ► - Will exist, yes.

01:00:18 ◼   ► - I could have imagined that they're like,

01:00:20 ◼   ► oh, we just made this thing for the dynamic island.

01:00:24 ◼   ► You know, but they didn't.

01:00:25 ◼   ► I just think that's kind of cool that,

01:00:27 ◼   ► so at least other people will still be able

01:00:29 ◼   ► to benefit from it.

01:00:30 ◼   ► - We'll see, I mean, it'll be on lock screens, right?

01:00:33 ◼   ► Non always on lock screens on other devices

01:00:36 ◼   ► will also show this.

01:00:38 ◼   ► - I assume it also shows a notification center in general,

01:00:41 ◼   ► right, as well as the lock screens.

01:00:43 ◼   ► - Right, that's my guess.

01:00:44 ◼   ► But I think that that's gonna be an ongoing question

01:00:47 ◼   ► when we talk about iOS 17 is,

01:00:51 ◼   ► is there a way to integrate information?

01:00:55 ◼   ► Where does the live activities information show?

01:00:58 ◼   ► What are the proper places for it?

01:00:59 ◼   ► Because there are a lot of devices

01:01:00 ◼   ► that don't have the Dynamic Island.

01:01:02 ◼   ► And so can I flip up or down somewhere

01:01:05 ◼   ► and see my live activities?

01:01:07 ◼   ► And perhaps that's the answer is,

01:01:08 ◼   ► literally it's in Notification Center.

01:01:10 ◼   ► And so you have to do extra work

01:01:11 ◼   ► if you're not using the Dynamic Island.

01:01:13 ◼   ► That's fine.

01:01:15 ◼   ► Or you have to lock your phone

01:01:16 ◼   ► and see it on the lock screen,

01:01:17 ◼   ► which is maybe less good,

01:01:18 ◼   ► 'cause then you have to unlock your phone.

01:01:20 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:01:21 ◼   ► It's something to watch,

01:01:23 ◼   ► because it is a new thing that Apple is, you know,

01:01:27 ◼   ► kind of experimenting with on two phone models right now.

01:01:31 ◼   ► - For now.

01:01:33 ◼   ► You don't seem too keen on the always-on.

01:01:39 ◼   ► I would read this line,

01:01:40 ◼   ► "What does leaving the iPhone screen on actually accomplish?"

01:01:44 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:01:45 ◼   ► I just thought it was like pretty skewering.

01:01:48 ◼   ► - I mean, yeah, not trying.

01:01:51 ◼   ► I mean, I didn't write that sentence and go,

01:01:52 ◼   ► "Ha ha, I got you." - You got 'em.

01:01:54 ◼   ► - Got 'em, yeah. - That's right, we got 'em.

01:01:57 ◼   ► Everybody, victory.

01:01:58 ◼   ► Well, I was struck.

01:02:00 ◼   ► We were having dinner with my kids

01:02:04 ◼   ► while we were dropping my son off at college.

01:02:08 ◼   ► And my daughter says,

01:02:12 ◼   ► 'cause I got the phone laying out on the table

01:02:14 ◼   ► at the restaurant and she says, "Why is it on?"

01:02:19 ◼   ► Like, she was kinda like disturbed by it,

01:02:23 ◼   ► which is not a reaction I expected.

01:02:26 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh, that's cool, it's always on."

01:02:28 ◼   ► It's like, "Mm, no, like, she didn't like it."

01:02:30 ◼   ► And some of that is just not used to it

01:02:33 ◼   ► and phones are very important to her

01:02:35 ◼   ► and it's a phone doing a weird thing.

01:02:37 ◼   ► But it did make me think, okay, why is it like this?

01:02:43 ◼   ► And so this is my answer,

01:02:48 ◼   ► which is what is asking me a question,

01:02:51 ◼   ► what does it accomplish?

01:02:53 ◼   ► What is it for?

01:02:54 ◼   ► Why is it like this?

01:02:55 ◼   ► And if you wanna say,

01:02:56 ◼   ► well, I like that my phone is hanging out on my desk

01:03:00 ◼   ► and I look and I can see the time

01:03:01 ◼   ► and I can see a picture that's on it.

01:03:03 ◼   ► It's like, fair enough.

01:03:04 ◼   ► Like fair enough.

01:03:05 ◼   ► But for me, I'm a little more skeptical about that.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Like it, and again,

01:03:12 ◼   ► this is a case where we don't have live activities view.

01:03:15 ◼   ► If it's populated with live activities,

01:03:19 ◼   ► it is maybe a little more dynamic,

01:03:23 ◼   ► not island dynamic by the way,

01:03:25 ◼   ► but just dynamic a little more.

01:03:27 ◼   ► It's interesting that they took,

01:03:30 ◼   ► they compacted all of the notifications

01:03:32 ◼   ► so you don't see so many notifications now.

01:03:34 ◼   ► So notification comes in and if you're looking,

01:03:37 ◼   ► you can see it, but like they're in a pile now,

01:03:40 ◼   ► So you're not gonna see the last four.

01:03:43 ◼   ► So that's not it.

01:03:44 ◼   ► It just, I like the idea of it

01:03:51 ◼   ► and I appreciate the technical prowess that went into it.

01:03:55 ◼   ► Also in my case, I wear a watch,

01:03:59 ◼   ► I have the time on all my devices.

01:04:01 ◼   ► There's very few circumstances where I'm going to use

01:04:05 ◼   ► the iPhone as my only source of time.

01:04:08 ◼   ► Now if you sleep next to your iPhone

01:04:10 ◼   ► and you can see glasses, I suppose,

01:04:13 ◼   ► then, but in sleep mode it turns itself off.

01:04:15 ◼   ► So maybe that's not even an answer.

01:04:16 ◼   ► So I guess what I'm saying is I struggle a little bit

01:04:19 ◼   ► with the why of this feature.

01:04:22 ◼   ► Not that it's not impressive

01:04:24 ◼   ► and not that it couldn't be something.

01:04:26 ◼   ► Also, it is pretty dim.

01:04:29 ◼   ► A lot of the photos that I put on it,

01:04:30 ◼   ► I can't really see them that clearly because it's dim.

01:04:35 ◼   ► So it doesn't become like a great showcase for my photos

01:04:38 ◼   ► like I thought it might.

01:04:40 ◼   ► It is, the widgets are okay, right?

01:04:44 ◼   ► That you can put some live widgets,

01:04:46 ◼   ► but even there the power of it is kind of blunted

01:04:48 ◼   ► by the fact that the lock screen widgets

01:04:52 ◼   ► are limited to that one strip

01:04:54 ◼   ► and the one text thing at the top

01:04:56 ◼   ► when there should probably be more.

01:04:58 ◼   ► And again, let me decide

01:05:01 ◼   ► if I want a lock screen full of widgets.

01:05:03 ◼   ► But it feels like Apple saying,

01:05:04 ◼   ► "Well, look, we've got this great new information strip

01:05:07 ◼   ► "and you can really only put three or four things up there.

01:05:10 ◼   ► "Because if you put more, it will make,

01:05:13 ◼   ► "we won't like how your phone looks."

01:05:15 ◼   ► It's like, well, it's my phone.

01:05:17 ◼   ► If these information things are so great

01:05:18 ◼   ► and I want an always on display that's full of information,

01:05:22 ◼   ► let me do it.

01:05:24 ◼   ► And Apple has decided, no, you don't get to do that.

01:05:27 ◼   ► So, and again, maybe part of that is solved

01:05:29 ◼   ► by the live activities thing, hasn't shipped, doesn't exist.

01:05:33 ◼   ► So I tried to be enthusiastic about the Always On display

01:05:38 ◼   ► and where I ended up is I think it's a curiosity

01:05:41 ◼   ► that needs to prove itself and for me it hasn't.

01:05:44 ◼   ► - I struggle to say why I like it, but I do like it.

01:05:47 ◼   ► I just find it interesting to just have the information

01:05:51 ◼   ► that I've chosen to put on my lock screen

01:05:53 ◼   ► there all the time.

01:05:54 ◼   ► I don't love it, but I like it.

01:05:57 ◼   ► I'm definitely not having the negative reaction

01:06:01 ◼   ► that I'm seeing from a lot of people.

01:06:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, and keeping in mind, I'm writing a review here,

01:06:06 ◼   ► right, so it's like reviewing anything critically.

01:06:11 ◼   ► I, as a regular user, I would probably say what you say,

01:06:15 ◼   ► which is, oh, it's kind of cool, it stays on,

01:06:17 ◼   ► and you can look at it, and there's stuff.

01:06:19 ◼   ► And that's all true.

01:06:21 ◼   ► But when I try to look at it critically as a reviewer,

01:06:24 ◼   ► I look at it and ask that question,

01:06:26 ◼   ► like, well, okay, what does this get me?

01:06:28 ◼   ► Other than draining my battery faster,

01:06:29 ◼   ► What does this get me?

01:06:31 ◼   ► And I feel like that's where Apple has not lived up

01:06:36 ◼   ► to the feature.

01:06:37 ◼   ► Apple has not done all that it could, including some,

01:06:42 ◼   ► you know, some of this may just be,

01:06:43 ◼   ► is this a good feature or not?

01:06:45 ◼   ► And I think it probably is fine,

01:06:47 ◼   ► but some of it is Apple's own failures,

01:06:50 ◼   ► which is, like I said, Live Activities API not being there,

01:06:53 ◼   ► limited ability to put widgets on the lock screen,

01:06:57 ◼   ► stuff that rolling up all the notifications,

01:07:00 ◼   ► which I support as an idea,

01:07:01 ◼   ► but like if I got an always on display

01:07:04 ◼   ► and I know on the old version of iOS,

01:07:06 ◼   ► I could have theoretically seen three or four notifications

01:07:09 ◼   ► and now I can't because they rolled them all together.

01:07:12 ◼   ► It just, it's curious.

01:07:15 ◼   ► So when I started sort of interrogating it like that,

01:07:19 ◼   ► I ended up coming away feeling like,

01:07:21 ◼   ► even though on the surface, it's like, this is cool.

01:07:24 ◼   ► Beyond that, you know, like my daughter said, like, "Ugh, why?"

01:07:29 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh, why? Hmm."

01:07:32 ◼   ► It could be a lot better. I guess that's what I'm saying.

01:07:34 ◼   ► And I think that's all -- like the dynamic island,

01:07:36 ◼   ► it's a little bit in Apple's hands to make it better.

01:07:39 ◼   ► -And since we last spoke,

01:07:40 ◼   ► you've been taking some raw photography.

01:07:43 ◼   ► -Yeah, you know, I went down -- there's a bridge near my house

01:07:47 ◼   ► that I like to take pictures at.

01:07:48 ◼   ► Some people -- that people like to take pictures out, I hear.

01:07:51 ◼   ► -The Bay Bridge? -No, that's not the one.

01:07:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:07:55 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:07:56 ◼   ► - It's an orange, it's the orange one.

01:07:57 ◼   ► - The orange bridge, that's what they call it.

01:07:59 ◼   ► - And so I went down there and I took a bunch of pictures.

01:08:03 ◼   ► I mean, I've been taking pictures with it everywhere.

01:08:05 ◼   ► I was saying to Lauren that this is every,

01:08:08 ◼   ► when you get the new iPhone and you're reviewing it,

01:08:10 ◼   ► everything suddenly is a photo opportunity.

01:08:13 ◼   ► So you start doing like, okay, I'll take it raw,

01:08:15 ◼   ► take a non-raw, take the 1X and the 2X and the 3X

01:08:20 ◼   ► and the 0.5X and you do the whole kind of rigmarole

01:08:23 ◼   ► so you can compare them later.

01:08:24 ◼   ► But I did take a bunch down by the water and by the bridge.

01:08:28 ◼   ► And you know, that 48 megapixel camera is staggeringly good.

01:08:33 ◼   ► Like that's my real top line feeling about it,

01:08:37 ◼   ► is that you can have an iPhone

01:08:40 ◼   ► with that level of detail is shocking.

01:08:44 ◼   ► It's so good.

01:08:46 ◼   ► And I think that if you're somebody

01:08:48 ◼   ► who really fancies themselves an iPhone photographer,

01:08:52 ◼   ► and one of your hobbies is taking pictures,

01:08:54 ◼   ► but you do a lot of it with your iPhone,

01:08:56 ◼   ► and you do shoot in RAW,

01:09:00 ◼   ► or you've thought about shooting in RAW,

01:09:02 ◼   ► but you process your images

01:09:03 ◼   ► and maybe you put them on prints or on posters.

01:09:08 ◼   ► Like, if you care about this,

01:09:10 ◼   ► that might be enough to upgrade

01:09:13 ◼   ► just to get access to that 48-megapixel sensor,

01:09:17 ◼   ► because it's, especially in bright light,

01:09:19 ◼   ► It is remarkably good.

01:09:22 ◼   ► What's funny-- - The level of detail

01:09:24 ◼   ► is truly unbelievable.

01:09:27 ◼   ► If you take the photos side by side,

01:09:30 ◼   ► it really is quite surprising.

01:09:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:35 ◼   ► What's funny is Apple has locked that feature out

01:09:38 ◼   ► for most users.

01:09:39 ◼   ► That's, again, I find a curious choice.

01:09:42 ◼   ► And again, I understand why Apple chose to do it.

01:09:46 ◼   ► Apple is thinking the regular photographer

01:09:49 ◼   ► is just shooting snapshots.

01:09:51 ◼   ► And so what we're getting with the 48 megapixel sensor

01:09:54 ◼   ► for the regular person is two things.

01:09:57 ◼   ► One is quad pixel binning.

01:09:59 ◼   ► So we're not using it as a 48,

01:10:01 ◼   ► we're using it as a really good 12 megapixel camera

01:10:04 ◼   ► with good low light performance.

01:10:06 ◼   ► Great, that's really good.

01:10:07 ◼   ► And the other thing that you get is the 2X camera,

01:10:11 ◼   ► which is not a camera,

01:10:12 ◼   ► but just a crop of the inside 12 megapixels

01:10:17 ◼   ► of the 48 megapixel sensor.

01:10:19 ◼   ► But that's really nice because it means that

01:10:21 ◼   ► you are able to use that sensor to get a,

01:10:25 ◼   ► it's a crop, but it's,

01:10:27 ◼   ► the context is instead of letting you do

01:10:29 ◼   ► a 48 megapixel picture and crop it,

01:10:31 ◼   ► they're like, "Well, we're gonna pre-crop it for you."

01:10:34 ◼   ► And it's not gonna have the low light performance

01:10:35 ◼   ► that the quad pixel binning has 'cause it's turned off,

01:10:38 ◼   ► but you are gonna get a different, another camera view.

01:10:40 ◼   ► And the 2X view is really nice.

01:10:42 ◼   ► So Apple's giving the users that.

01:10:46 ◼   ► But what it's not doing is saying,

01:10:48 ◼   ► yeah, but I wanna take this at 48.

01:10:50 ◼   ► And so you have to go into settings, into camera,

01:10:54 ◼   ► and then you have to go into a sub menu.

01:10:56 ◼   ► You have to turn on raw and say, I wanna shoot 48 raw.

01:11:00 ◼   ► And then you have the ability to toggle raw on and off

01:11:03 ◼   ► in the camera app.

01:11:03 ◼   ► - Then it's really easy.

01:11:04 ◼   ► Like it is easy then,

01:11:06 ◼   ► 'cause you just got that button there all the time.

01:11:08 ◼   ► - Even then you don't have the option

01:11:09 ◼   ► of shooting like a 48 megapixel heaf image.

01:11:12 ◼   ► It has to be raw.

01:11:14 ◼   ► And that means, and it's like another barrier.

01:11:16 ◼   ► So Apple has erected all these barriers to using the sensor.

01:11:20 ◼   ► And I get it, like on one level, I get it.

01:11:22 ◼   ► It is not for most people.

01:11:24 ◼   ► The files are huge.

01:11:25 ◼   ► Most people would prefer the lower light performance

01:11:27 ◼   ► from the quad pixel binning and have that benefit.

01:11:30 ◼   ► However, I am still a little disappointed.

01:11:33 ◼   ► I think Apple's so clever, right?

01:11:36 ◼   ► Apple's so clever and so helpful.

01:11:38 ◼   ► I think having a shooting mode that you could turn on

01:11:43 ◼   ► that says, when I'm in bright light,

01:11:45 ◼   ► give me a 48 megapixel heave image

01:11:48 ◼   ► because it's gorgeous and detailed.

01:11:51 ◼   ► And it's a feature I'm turning on,

01:11:54 ◼   ► but also be smart enough to say,

01:11:55 ◼   ► oh, well, the light's a little bit lower now,

01:11:57 ◼   ► I'm gonna go to the quad pixel binning

01:11:59 ◼   ► in order to get a better shot.

01:12:00 ◼   ► And Apple does this in other circumstances

01:12:02 ◼   ► where they change the lens in order to get the right one

01:12:06 ◼   ► that's got the right performance in it.

01:12:08 ◼   ► Like when you're zooming through, it will change the lens

01:12:11 ◼   ► and when the light conditions change,

01:12:12 ◼   ► it will change the lens or the camera it's using.

01:12:14 ◼   ► - And I don't know if it still does this,

01:12:16 ◼   ► but I know for a while, if you used the telephoto,

01:12:19 ◼   ► but there wasn't enough light,

01:12:20 ◼   ► it would just crop in the main lens.

01:12:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh yeah, I mean, it does this.

01:12:25 ◼   ► And so I asked the question again,

01:12:27 ◼   ► which is like, what's the deal, Apple?

01:12:29 ◼   ► Why have you made it so hard

01:12:32 ◼   ► not to use the 48 megapixel sensor?

01:12:34 ◼   ► Like, and again, I understand some of the reasoning,

01:12:38 ◼   ► but I disagree with the absolutism of,

01:12:41 ◼   ► you can only do it if you turn the setting on

01:12:43 ◼   ► and shoot RAW, otherwise you don't, or,

01:12:46 ◼   ► 'cause again, if the argument is,

01:12:48 ◼   ► "Well, yeah, but those images are noisy

01:12:50 ◼   ► and you really need the quad pixel binning."

01:12:52 ◼   ► Well, I can shoot a 2X,

01:12:54 ◼   ► those images are noisy and don't have quad pixel binning.

01:12:57 ◼   ► I'm allowed to do that,

01:12:59 ◼   ► but I'm not allowed to see the whole sensor

01:13:01 ◼   ► unless I turn on RAW.

01:13:03 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, it is,

01:13:05 ◼   ► So the bottom line is, this is a great camera,

01:13:09 ◼   ► especially if you care about photos

01:13:11 ◼   ► and you're willing to take the extra steps

01:13:13 ◼   ► to give yourself extra control.

01:13:15 ◼   ► And the stuff that comes out in those RAW files is amazing.

01:13:19 ◼   ► It is really, really incredible levels of detail.

01:13:24 ◼   ► I was taking pictures of the Golden Gate Bridge

01:13:25 ◼   ► where I could see individual people up on the ridge

01:13:29 ◼   ► above the bridge looking down on it.

01:13:31 ◼   ► Whereas in the 12 megapixel image, you know, there's a bump.

01:13:35 ◼   ► but in the 48 megapixel, it's a human being.

01:13:38 ◼   ► You can see their arms and their head

01:13:40 ◼   ► and they're looking out.

01:13:41 ◼   ► Like it is remarkable.

01:13:44 ◼   ► So it's a great camera,

01:13:46 ◼   ► but if you're a casual photographer

01:13:50 ◼   ► who just is, you know, shooting snapshots,

01:13:53 ◼   ► it is a better camera,

01:13:57 ◼   ► but not as better as you might think.

01:14:01 ◼   ► And it is better.

01:14:02 ◼   ► I definitely saw some cases

01:14:03 ◼   ► where there was a lot of noise in the 48

01:14:06 ◼   ► and the quad pixel binning was like, there's no noise.

01:14:09 ◼   ► It's really impressive,

01:14:11 ◼   ► but it's a way more subtle sort of thing.

01:14:14 ◼   ► And I just, I really feel like this is the case

01:14:17 ◼   ► where Apple has erred too far on the side

01:14:21 ◼   ► of keeping it simple.

01:14:23 ◼   ► And I don't wanna say dumbing it down,

01:14:26 ◼   ► but that's kind of what it is,

01:14:27 ◼   ► which is they've taken their own sensor

01:14:29 ◼   ► and really muted its impact by not giving people a pathway

01:14:34 ◼   ► to like, they basically said the 48 is really only for pros

01:14:41 ◼   ► or if you wanna zoom, otherwise forget it.

01:14:44 ◼   ► And I think that's too bad.

01:14:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, I feel like just in general,

01:14:48 ◼   ► there is maybe a little bit more headroom in this camera

01:14:50 ◼   ► than Apple have made available in general, right?

01:14:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:14:54 ◼   ► - 'Cause as we were talking about,

01:14:57 ◼   ► and as a lot of reviewers have pointed out,

01:14:58 ◼   ► like people that are, I would say,

01:15:00 ◼   ► much more knowledgeable than me and you about photography.

01:15:04 ◼   ► - That's for sure.

01:15:05 ◼   ► - It seems like really the 14 does most of the time

01:15:08 ◼   ► about as good a job as the 13 Pro, right?

01:15:11 ◼   ► The 14 Pro and the 13 Pro.

01:15:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I shot a bunch with the 13 Pro as well.

01:15:15 ◼   ► And although the 14 Pro is very, very, very slightly better

01:15:18 ◼   ► in certain conditions, they're basically the same.

01:15:21 ◼   ► Which is, when I say dumbed down,

01:15:23 ◼   ► I mean, it is a little bit of that.

01:15:24 ◼   ► Apple has this incredibly amazing new piece of hardware,

01:15:28 ◼   ► but they kind of want the default to be more or less

01:15:30 ◼   ► what the old hardware was with a little bit of a variation.

01:15:33 ◼   ► And that's an odd decision.

01:15:36 ◼   ► And I just, I'm a little bit frustrated

01:15:39 ◼   ► that they didn't try to push this more.

01:15:41 ◼   ► And I think you're exactly right.

01:15:42 ◼   ► It is a scenario where Apple seems to be going real slow

01:15:47 ◼   ► and wants to be really conservative

01:15:49 ◼   ► about how they roll out their new hardware.

01:15:52 ◼   ► And I think they're concerned about people, you know,

01:15:54 ◼   ► shooting giant images that they can't do anything with

01:15:57 ◼   ► that they would have to process and like I get all of that but I just I think they went too far.

01:16:03 ◼   ► I think they have erred too far on the side of not giving more regular users the access to that kind

01:16:11 ◼   ► of power. However they will let us do it which I could imagine a world in which they didn't enable

01:16:18 ◼   ► a 48 megapixel sensor. Oh yeah imagine if the only way you could use that use the 48 data was in the

01:16:24 ◼   ► in the 2X mode with a little part of it.

01:16:26 ◼   ► - You can see a world in which they would just not do it.

01:16:30 ◼   ► So what I'll say is like on the flip side,

01:16:34 ◼   ► it feels like a great time for apps that make shooting

01:16:37 ◼   ► and dealing with raw photos easier.

01:16:40 ◼   ► And I think that is going to maybe become more

01:16:44 ◼   ► and more popular.

01:16:45 ◼   ► It is worth saying maybe this is the first time

01:16:48 ◼   ► I feel like we're putting a camera and pro

01:16:53 ◼   ► in the name together on an iPhone makes sense

01:16:56 ◼   ► because to get the best out of this lens,

01:16:59 ◼   ► you have to do something that really,

01:17:00 ◼   ► you kinda need to know what you're doing a little bit

01:17:04 ◼   ► to get it to work.

01:17:05 ◼   ► 'Cause like sometimes, in the right daylight,

01:17:06 ◼   ► you take a picture with the RAW, it just looks good.

01:17:08 ◼   ► But if you're not in that, you get,

01:17:10 ◼   ► colors look weird and that kind of stuff.

01:17:12 ◼   ► - But let me respond to that though by saying,

01:17:16 ◼   ► isn't that Apple's job?

01:17:17 ◼   ► Like isn't Apple's job,

01:17:19 ◼   ► isn't the thing that Apple is so proud of?

01:17:21 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:17:22 ◼   ► - That they take some amazing hardware technology

01:17:23 ◼   ► like a 48 megapixel sensor,

01:17:25 ◼   ► and they use their amazing secret sauce

01:17:27 ◼   ► and their image pipeline and their photonic engine

01:17:30 ◼   ► and all of that to put that power

01:17:33 ◼   ► in the hands of the regular user.

01:17:36 ◼   ► And I would argue then that if you say,

01:17:39 ◼   ► this is great if you are unlocking all of the barriers

01:17:45 ◼   ► and downloading a third party app and that you're a pro,

01:17:48 ◼   ► shouldn't the idea be that Apple unlocks that power

01:17:52 ◼   ► for everyone to use, and they didn't.

01:17:55 ◼   ► They chose not to.

01:17:56 ◼   ► They're like, nah, it's a zoom or a pro feature

01:18:00 ◼   ► you can turn on.

01:18:01 ◼   ► And again, I'm not saying everybody should be shooting

01:18:03 ◼   ► 48 megapixels, I'm not saying that at all,

01:18:05 ◼   ► but like there is a scenario here,

01:18:07 ◼   ► again, to get back to sort of like my critics hat,

01:18:09 ◼   ► there's a scenario here where Apple says,

01:18:11 ◼   ► we are smart enough that if you put it in this mode,

01:18:14 ◼   ► we know when to shoot with 48,

01:18:17 ◼   ► and we know when to step it down to quad pixel binning,

01:18:20 ◼   ► and we'll make it look great under either circumstance

01:18:23 ◼   ► for you, regular person,

01:18:25 ◼   ► so that you can take the photo off and go,

01:18:27 ◼   ► "Oh my God, look at all this extra detail,

01:18:29 ◼   ► 'cause I wanna crop it over here in the corner

01:18:31 ◼   ► and print a poster of it," or whatever.

01:18:34 ◼   ► And they punted, I mean, they punted on that.

01:18:36 ◼   ► They said, "No, we're not gonna make 48 megapixel images

01:18:40 ◼   ► accessible to regular users.

01:18:42 ◼   ► We're gonna hide it."

01:18:44 ◼   ► And I think that, look, we can all debate it

01:18:48 ◼   ► because I think this is a completely subjective thing.

01:18:51 ◼   ► I think that is a failure of Apple's own stated philosophy

01:18:57 ◼   ► of taking high complicated technology

01:19:00 ◼   ► and bringing it to regular people.

01:19:01 ◼   ► They literally locked everybody out of this feature

01:19:03 ◼   ► unless they know how to turn it on

01:19:05 ◼   ► instead of having it be magic.

01:19:08 ◼   ► And that's curious to me.

01:19:10 ◼   ► I find that very curious.

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01:20:21 ◼   ► It should be in the OS by the way, but it's not.

01:20:24 ◼   ► So, Rogue Amoeba.

01:20:25 ◼   ► - So Rogue Amoeba will do it for you.

01:20:27 ◼   ► Obviously, we're huge fans of Audio Hijack as well,

01:20:32 ◼   ► like maybe for me specifically.

01:20:34 ◼   ► Audio Hijack is the tool that I use

01:20:36 ◼   ► so you can listen to your podcasts.

01:20:38 ◼   ► So if you like your podcasts

01:20:40 ◼   ► and then you think, oh, the audio on Relay FM shows

01:20:43 ◼   ► sounds so good, it's because by and large,

01:20:45 ◼   ► we're all using Audio Hijack to do it.

01:20:48 ◼   ► At least you said that for my shows,

01:20:50 ◼   ► not only do we record our audio,

01:20:52 ◼   ► we stream our live shows, like with Audio Hijack,

01:20:55 ◼   ► so if you listen to our shows live,

01:20:58 ◼   ► it's all done within there, we're able to do it.

01:21:00 ◼   ► It is really, really awesome.

01:21:03 ◼   ► I absolutely adore Audio Hijack.

01:21:05 ◼   ► It gets me out of so many jams,

01:21:07 ◼   ► or just little niceties,

01:21:09 ◼   ► like sometimes I'll want to grab some audio from a YouTube video and edit it into a show.

01:21:14 ◼   ► Really easy to do all of that with Audio Hijack.

01:21:17 ◼   ► It's fantastic.

01:21:18 ◼   ► But, as I mentioned, Rogue Amoeba make a ton of great apps.

01:21:22 ◼   ► Audio Hijack just happens to be my favourite.

01:21:25 ◼   ► Rogue Amoeba don't run constant sales or gimmicky discounts and that kind of stuff.

01:21:30 ◼   ► They charge fair prices all the time.

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01:22:09 ◼   ► Rogue Amoeba on 20 great years and get some fantastic software at a fantastic price.

01:22:15 ◼   ► Our thanks to Rogue Amoeba for their support of this show, for literally making this show possible

01:22:20 ◼   ► and for supporting Relay FM as well. So I got, Jason, we got I should say, a bunch of

01:22:26 ◼   ► Ask Upgrade questions that were specifically focused on the Dynamic Island. So we're going

01:22:31 ◼   ► going to do a Dynamic Island Edition of Ask Upgrade and then we're going to do

01:22:35 ◼   ► our regular Ask Upgrade today. Okay so this is Dynamic Island Ask Upgrade that

01:22:41 ◼   ► we're doing? Is it possible that the lasers for the Dynamic Island Edition of Ask

01:22:47 ◼   ► Upgrade would sound any different?

01:22:53 ◼   ► Okay. Did they just kill a bird? Maybe. At least shot at the bird. Yeah. On the island.

01:23:02 ◼   ► I guess it's like some parrot or something. I don't even know. It could have been a monkey too.

01:23:07 ◼   ► I don't know. Monkey island. Jonathan asks, "Apple have done a great job embracing the

01:23:13 ◼   ► camera cutouts of the dynamic island. However, they clearly have their eyes on

01:23:17 ◼   ► the day that they can make an iPhone a truly full screen device. When that day

01:23:22 ◼   ► arrives, what do you imagine they would do with the island?

01:23:25 ◼   ► - Well, let's see how it goes.

01:23:29 ◼   ► I think that's the first one, is like, let's see how it goes.

01:23:31 ◼   ► And if people like it and people are used to it,

01:23:34 ◼   ► my guess is that the dynamic island will pop down

01:23:37 ◼   ► in a delightful animation when it's active

01:23:41 ◼   ► and disappear with a delightful animation

01:23:44 ◼   ► when it's not active.

01:23:45 ◼   ► That you might be able to swipe it down or swipe it up

01:23:50 ◼   ► and get it out of your way

01:23:51 ◼   ► if you don't wanna see it and probably turn it on or off.

01:23:54 ◼   ► But that would be my guess,

01:23:55 ◼   ► is that it'll look just like it does now,

01:23:58 ◼   ► except it'll be dismissible

01:23:59 ◼   ► and it won't have an inactive state.

01:24:01 ◼   ► That's my guess.

01:24:02 ◼   ► - I could imagine that, yeah, it just,

01:24:06 ◼   ► it just, right, if you say like when something's not in it,

01:24:09 ◼   ► it just doesn't exist.

01:24:11 ◼   ► - Right, assuming that people like it and use it,

01:24:13 ◼   ► and Apple thinks it's an important part of iOS,

01:24:15 ◼   ► which I would say it's more likely than not

01:24:17 ◼   ► that is the case.

01:24:18 ◼   ► But if it's a flop and nobody really likes it,

01:24:20 ◼   ► After a year or two, then they'll be like,

01:24:22 ◼   ► "Okay, well, once we can get rid of it,

01:24:24 ◼   ► we'll just, you know, like the touch bar,

01:24:25 ◼   ► we'll just make it fade away."

01:24:26 ◼   ► But otherwise, yeah, I mean,

01:24:28 ◼   ► that's the beauty of this thing is it's mostly software,

01:24:30 ◼   ► right? It is hiding some cutouts, but it's mostly software.

01:24:33 ◼   ► So that's my guess is they'll just make it something

01:24:37 ◼   ► that appears when it's active or you can dismiss it

01:24:39 ◼   ► or make it reappear or whatever.

01:24:41 ◼   ► And it'll be a dynamic status item element

01:24:46 ◼   ► at the top of the screen.

01:24:48 ◼   ► Because even in the world of a full screen iPhone,

01:24:52 ◼   ► I still think they're going to need

01:24:54 ◼   ► to have a status bar of some description, right?

01:24:57 ◼   ► That has stuff in it.

01:24:59 ◼   ► So the idea of having this design,

01:25:01 ◼   ► like this UI element that could appear and go away

01:25:05 ◼   ► or whatever, there's probably going

01:25:07 ◼   ► to be some kind of element of that for a long time.

01:25:13 ◼   ► I will say that the fact that they have done all of the work

01:25:16 ◼   ► that they have done would suggest to me that Apple think

01:25:21 ◼   ► that it is quite a way away before they won't have

01:25:25 ◼   ► any cameras or sensors visible on the device, right?

01:25:28 ◼   ► - It will be interesting if we end up

01:25:29 ◼   ► with a different dynamic island at some point that's got,

01:25:32 ◼   ► like the beauty of the dynamic island, I would guess,

01:25:35 ◼   ► is that they have the ability or will have the ability

01:25:37 ◼   ► to change sort of what cutouts they're dancing around

01:25:41 ◼   ► and where they are.

01:25:42 ◼   ► So yeah, we may see it that it's an even smaller cutout,

01:25:45 ◼   ► but we won't notice the difference

01:25:46 ◼   ► 'cause it's still just the dynamic island.

01:25:49 ◼   ► It's also possible that at some point

01:25:50 ◼   ► they might re-figure the whole thing

01:25:52 ◼   ► as a status bar on the top,

01:25:55 ◼   ► because there is the name of the carrier

01:25:57 ◼   ► and your wifi and your bars and your battery and all of that.

01:26:01 ◼   ► That stuff's always up there,

01:26:03 ◼   ► whereas dynamic island kind of appears

01:26:05 ◼   ► during active activities.

01:26:07 ◼   ► So they might reconceive some of that stuff if necessary.

01:26:11 ◼   ► But anyway, I think that's the most likely scenario

01:26:14 ◼   ► is that the dynamic island will continue to stay around.

01:26:17 ◼   ► And we talked about the idea that it might even appear

01:26:19 ◼   ► on things like the iPad down the road.

01:26:21 ◼   ► I think it would be the same thing, right?

01:26:23 ◼   ► It would be a place that would appear

01:26:27 ◼   ► when you have something in the background that is going on

01:26:30 ◼   ► and that you can turn it off or dismiss it

01:26:32 ◼   ► if you don't wanna see it.

01:26:33 ◼   ► - Speaking of which, John asks, Jonathan asks.

01:26:38 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:26:39 ◼   ► Not John, Jonathan, we already had John.

01:26:43 ◼   ► - No, I don't wanna, actually,

01:26:44 ◼   ► I don't wanna get to Jonathan's question just yet.

01:26:46 ◼   ► Hold on. - Oh, okay.

01:26:47 ◼   ► - There's another question here.

01:26:49 ◼   ► I'm getting lost on dynamic island.

01:26:51 ◼   ► Oh yeah, this was John.

01:26:52 ◼   ► Jonathan asked the last question.

01:26:53 ◼   ► John asks this question.

01:26:55 ◼   ► I've got too many Johns around here.

01:26:57 ◼   ► - All right.

01:26:57 ◼   ► - John says, "You spoke last week

01:26:59 ◼   ► "about whether the iPad would get the dynamic island or not.

01:27:02 ◼   ► "What about the Mac?

01:27:03 ◼   ► "The Mac has a notch today.

01:27:05 ◼   ► "Could it have the island in the future?"

01:27:07 ◼   ► - My gut feeling is that the Mac already has a thing for this

01:27:10 ◼   ► and it's the menu bar.

01:27:12 ◼   ► - Hmm.

01:27:13 ◼   ► If the "Dynamic Island" is a big hit

01:27:15 ◼   ► and Apple wants to kind of play that idea elsewhere,

01:27:19 ◼   ► who knows?

01:27:21 ◼   ► It could certainly do it if it wanted to,

01:27:26 ◼   ► but with the notch, what Apple has done

01:27:29 ◼   ► is basically made the notch part of the menu bar.

01:27:32 ◼   ► And the menu bar is a status area,

01:27:34 ◼   ► so I'm not sure it's necessary on the Mac.

01:27:37 ◼   ► I mean, could they do it if they really, really liked it

01:27:39 ◼   ► and they wanted to extend it?

01:27:42 ◼   ► Sure, also the Mac is even more multitasky already.

01:27:47 ◼   ► So it really is, you know, the need for it is less.

01:27:49 ◼   ► It really is the stuff that's already in the menu bar.

01:27:51 ◼   ► It's already up there.

01:27:52 ◼   ► So, you know, other than forcing it in

01:27:56 ◼   ► because of a brand extension kind of thing,

01:27:58 ◼   ► it doesn't seem very necessary on the Mac.

01:28:01 ◼   ► My entire dynamic island on my Mac is like,

01:28:05 ◼   ► my menu bar is my dynamic island is what I'm trying to say.

01:28:07 ◼   ► It's a, I don't know what that would be.

01:28:09 ◼   ► It's like a haze layer of status or something.

01:28:12 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:28:13 ◼   ► It's up there at the very top.

01:28:14 ◼   ► - We're not looking for a dynamic menu.

01:28:17 ◼   ► - No.

01:28:18 ◼   ► - Alex asks, "In time, could you imagine

01:28:21 ◼   ► that notifications would be integrated

01:28:23 ◼   ► into the dynamic island?"

01:28:25 ◼   ► - Well, so this is something that we sort of touched on

01:28:29 ◼   ► earlier with the question of like,

01:28:31 ◼   ► does it, it's like a new game.

01:28:33 ◼   ► Should this be in the dynamic island?

01:28:36 ◼   ► And I think that when a notification comes in,

01:28:41 ◼   ► having the dynamic island expand to show it

01:28:47 ◼   ► and then have it go back away if you don't interact with it,

01:28:52 ◼   ► I mean, I've got to think they mock that up.

01:28:55 ◼   ► And there must be some reason.

01:28:56 ◼   ► The question is, do they think it's a bad idea

01:28:58 ◼   ► or did they just not have time to revamp

01:28:59 ◼   ► the entire notification system on two phones?

01:29:01 ◼   ► I think that's the question.

01:29:03 ◼   ► Feels to me like as a notification comes in,

01:29:06 ◼   ► What is that but a background status event, right?

01:29:09 ◼   ► Like that it actually, I think maybe should display

01:29:11 ◼   ► on the dynamic island, at least temporarily,

01:29:15 ◼   ► and then go away again.

01:29:16 ◼   ► I'm sure there's a counter argument to that,

01:29:19 ◼   ► but that's my gut feeling is like, whoa, why not?

01:29:22 ◼   ► Why do we have multiple layers?

01:29:24 ◼   ► Like, why do I have a little notification blob

01:29:27 ◼   ► shoot down below the dynamic island and then live there

01:29:30 ◼   ► and then shoot back up when it's done,

01:29:32 ◼   ► when it's doing kind of the same job

01:29:36 ◼   ► as the Dynamic Island.

01:29:36 ◼   ► I know it's not ongoing,

01:29:38 ◼   ► but it is a background information bit that's coming in.

01:29:41 ◼   ► So I think there's a solid argument

01:29:45 ◼   ► for Apple putting notification pop-ups

01:29:48 ◼   ► in the Dynamic Island.

01:29:49 ◼   ► - I would like to see it.

01:29:51 ◼   ► I just like the animation.

01:29:53 ◼   ► Like, I like the Apple Pay animation.

01:29:56 ◼   ► I just think it looks really nice.

01:29:58 ◼   ► So I would, why,

01:29:59 ◼   ► considering notifications come from that general area

01:30:02 ◼   ► of the screen, why not have them pop up there?

01:30:05 ◼   ► - You know, and while I'm being critical

01:30:08 ◼   ► of all of Apple's stuff today,

01:30:09 ◼   ► because that's part of my job,

01:30:11 ◼   ► I like what you said earlier about like,

01:30:15 ◼   ► it feels like Apple thinks this is the thing.

01:30:18 ◼   ► Like nothing tells you that Apple thinks

01:30:20 ◼   ► that this is the thing more than the amount of effort

01:30:23 ◼   ► that they put into all the animations, all the movements.

01:30:26 ◼   ► The Dynamic Island is a dancing blob.

01:30:29 ◼   ► It is this, it's got for a black space,

01:30:33 ◼   ► an empty, theoretically, space.

01:30:36 ◼   ► It actually has personality,

01:30:38 ◼   ► a featureless empty blob that has personality,

01:30:40 ◼   ► but it does, and it does its little thing

01:30:43 ◼   ► where it expands and goes, "Oh, Face ID,"

01:30:45 ◼   ► and like, "Oh, the lock is unlocked,"

01:30:47 ◼   ► and now, you know, all of those things

01:30:49 ◼   ► that it's doing up there.

01:30:50 ◼   ► That suggests that Apple is like,

01:30:51 ◼   ► "Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're onto something here,"

01:30:53 ◼   ► and it is delightful.

01:30:55 ◼   ► And then a notification comes in,

01:30:56 ◼   ► and it's like, "Here I am, there I go,"

01:30:58 ◼   ► and it's like, it feels old, right?

01:30:59 ◼   ► It doesn't feel right.

01:31:00 ◼   ► And again, I can see arguments

01:31:02 ◼   ► that notifications aren't Dynamic Island participants,

01:31:05 ◼   ► but I think maybe they are.

01:31:07 ◼   ► I think that that's the right place for them.

01:31:09 ◼   ► Like you've got, you invented the replacement

01:31:11 ◼   ► for notifications, so now notifications need to go in there.

01:31:13 ◼   ► Not like for Notification Center,

01:31:15 ◼   ► where you're viewing all of them,

01:31:16 ◼   ► but like the ones that come in across the transom, right,

01:31:20 ◼   ► and say, "Here's a news alert," and it expands and goes,

01:31:23 ◼   ► "Oh, the news thing happened,"

01:31:24 ◼   ► and then you either interact with it or it goes,

01:31:27 ◼   ► "Mm, goodbye," and it fades back away.

01:31:29 ◼   ► Like that seems right to me.

01:31:32 ◼   ► - Aaron asks, can you disable the always on display

01:31:37 ◼   ► on the 14 Pro via focus modes or shortcuts,

01:31:40 ◼   ► i.e. disable when driving?

01:31:42 ◼   ► Okay, the answer to the,

01:31:46 ◼   ► the direct answer to what you are asking is no, right?

01:31:51 ◼   ► You cannot use focus modes to turn off the always on display

01:31:56 ◼   ► but-- - Right.

01:31:58 ◼   ► Even though some focus modes do it, hmm.

01:32:01 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:32:02 ◼   ► - This feels like, by the way, this feels like a feature

01:32:04 ◼   ► that will be updated sometime in iOS 16, right?

01:32:07 ◼   ► Like this feels like one of those things

01:32:08 ◼   ► they just left on the table.

01:32:09 ◼   ► It's like, we'll get to it.

01:32:10 ◼   ► Like we got other stuff going on today.

01:32:12 ◼   ► Have you seen the Dynamic Island?

01:32:13 ◼   ► We're working on it.

01:32:14 ◼   ► This feels like it's just like easy to add this later.

01:32:17 ◼   ► So I hope they will.

01:32:19 ◼   ► - But there is a thing that I found on 9to5Mac today

01:32:24 ◼   ► where there's like a weird workaround that you can do.

01:32:27 ◼   ► So there is a setting in the options of a focus mode,

01:32:32 ◼   ► which is currently called dim lock screen

01:32:35 ◼   ► when you're in a certain focus.

01:32:37 ◼   ► And on other devices, it kind of just,

01:32:41 ◼   ► just something akin to what the sleep mode looks like,

01:32:43 ◼   ► where it kind of like dims the lock screen a little bit.

01:32:46 ◼   ► But when you do this on an always on,

01:32:52 ◼   ► like so you got like the 14 Pro, right?