425: This Intelligent Blob


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00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 425.

00:00:13   Today's show is brought to you by Hover, Memberfall, and Doordash.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:20   Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hi, Myke Hurley. How are you?

00:00:22   I'm good.

00:00:23   Uh, we're recording this on the evening of Sunday, the 18th of September.

00:00:28   I'm leaving for home tomorrow, so we're recording a tad earlier than we normally would, but

00:00:33   I'm feeling good!

00:00:35   Sunday night upgrade, and you're, uh, you know, in a different location.

00:00:39   Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!

00:00:41   And I don't know how I'm gonna even get up on Monday morning, 'cause you're the reason

00:00:46   I get up on Monday morning. You give me a reason, let me rephrase this, Myke, you give

00:00:50   me a reason to get up on Monday morning. Every week.

00:00:54   And usually it's for a #snotalkquestion.

00:00:57   This one comes from Chris who wants to know, "Do you think, Jason, that a mid-cycle release

00:01:02   of the iPhone 14 line is coming of a new color, either pro or regular?"

00:01:07   Well, after we made fun of it last time, and everybody said, "No, no, it makes sense from

00:01:12   a fashion standpoint, and it might prod people into going and considering getting a new iPhone."

00:01:18   It all makes all the sense in the world, because we thought it was kind of funny, right?

00:01:21   Like they put out a press release, and they literally sent me a green iPhone, and said,

00:01:24   look, a green iPhone.

00:01:27   And I thought to myself, okay, great.

00:01:31   So Chris, yes, of course, of course they'll do it.

00:01:35   'Cause this is what they do now.

00:01:36   They will do a mid-cycle release of some color

00:01:39   for the iPhones and it'll not be anything too exciting

00:01:44   for the rest of us, but it will put another color

00:01:47   in the store and that seems to work for them.

00:01:49   So I think so.

00:01:50   I think this is just what Apple does now

00:01:52   is they have their spring color refresh,

00:01:55   which usually means they add a color to an iPhone

00:01:59   partway through its life.

00:02:01   - I don't feel like I know why they do it.

00:02:03   Like, you know, I can assume that they are doing it

00:02:07   because they think it helps make them more money,

00:02:09   but like, I also don't really feel like I know

00:02:12   if that's true.

00:02:13   Like, I don't know if that necessarily

00:02:15   makes logical sense to me, like that many.

00:02:18   How many people are really waiting that much

00:02:21   for whatever color it is, you know?

00:02:22   - I think a lot of people aren't waiting, right?

00:02:24   The point that we got when we complained about this

00:02:26   the last time is that there's so many people out there

00:02:28   who are just buying an iPhone,

00:02:30   and they're not waiting for the new iPhones,

00:02:31   and they're finally there.

00:02:33   And the idea that you might prod some of them

00:02:35   to rethink buying any iPhone,

00:02:36   not just the new green iPhone or whatever,

00:02:39   that it's worth doing,

00:02:40   there must be some sign that it gives them a lift,

00:02:44   or they wouldn't do it, right?

00:02:45   Like, I'm sure that their metrics focus didn't enough.

00:02:47   - That's smart enough, and they have the data.

00:02:49   They know, right?

00:02:50   - Yeah.

00:02:51   - Yeah, I mean, they're probably smarter than us,

00:02:52   but what we do know for sure is they have the data

00:02:54   and we don't.

00:02:55   And I'm gonna assume that they would not do this

00:02:58   because there's somebody in there who says,

00:03:00   "No, I just like having an extra color in the spring."

00:03:03   Right?

00:03:04   Like probably somebody that's the guy

00:03:06   who's gonna get fired as the colors are

00:03:08   when we're put in charge is that guy.

00:03:10   Mr. Extra Color.

00:03:12   - I like, by the way, that you say,

00:03:14   "Probably about the smart."

00:03:15   That was nice that you, it's correct.

00:03:16   They just have the data.

00:03:17   if we had the data, we could make all the decisions.

00:03:20   - Maybe, I mean, we could try.

00:03:22   - I mean, we could make them.

00:03:24   I don't know if they would be the right ones,

00:03:26   but there are decisions we would make.

00:03:28   - I'm not gonna assume like so many people

00:03:30   who are in our position do that the people

00:03:32   who talk about things for a living are smarter

00:03:34   than the people who do the things that they talk about.

00:03:36   'Cause no, I also am not gonna assume

00:03:39   that the people we talk about are smarter than us.

00:03:41   'Cause they might, some of them might not be,

00:03:43   but probably a lot of them are.

00:03:45   and there's a lot of smart people who work at Apple,

00:03:48   but you know, not necessarily all of them.

00:03:50   And that guy who was like, "Meow, it's green."

00:03:54   Right, like that guy. - Oh, that guy.

00:03:56   That guy doesn't sound very smart.

00:03:58   - That guy, I don't know why he still got that job.

00:04:00   Get him out.

00:04:01   Replace new color commentator.

00:04:04   Anyway, yes is the answer.

00:04:06   There must be a reason why they do it.

00:04:08   Maybe, I did have a theory,

00:04:10   which is that at a certain point

00:04:12   in the life of the iPhone production cycle,

00:04:14   they're so far ahead that they can afford

00:04:17   to add colors to the mix because they can reduce

00:04:19   what they're making in,

00:04:21   like I don't know if they make all the colors at once

00:04:23   or if they make a bunch of one color

00:04:25   and then a bunch of another and a bunch of another,

00:04:28   but maybe there's a thing where the extra color comes in

00:04:32   when they have some bandwidth to make another color

00:04:34   and add another skew to the line.

00:04:36   I don't know.

00:04:37   - If you would like to send in a snow talk question

00:04:40   to help us open a future episode of the show,

00:04:42   Just send out a tweet with the hashtag SnellTalk or use question mark SnellTalk in the RelayFM

00:04:47   members discord.

00:04:48   That was a real ask upgrade feeling SnellTalk there though.

00:04:52   Yes.

00:04:53   Not very personal, right?

00:04:54   No.

00:04:55   I think it was a question to me.

00:04:56   That was a good question.

00:04:59   Perfectly good question.

00:05:00   So here's why I picked that one.

00:05:01   I actually picked that one specifically though and forgot the reason why I picked it until

00:05:07   right now, which was to mention at this point that today's episode features our review and

00:05:14   discussion of the iPhone 14 line. That's why I picked this one as like a setup, but then

00:05:21   I forgot to do the setup. Well done. So, you know, it's late. Yeah, look, I can't be trusted

00:05:27   to remember everything, you know? That's just how it goes sometimes, I'm afraid. I'm going

00:05:32   I'm gonna withdraw that statement I made before about who's smarter.

00:05:36   Hey! Hey!

00:05:38   There is a reason we're recording this show today and why it's late and all that kind of stuff.

00:05:43   I'm still in Memphis, Tennessee because just a couple of days ago we hosted the fourth annual podcast-a-thon for the Kids of St. Jude.

00:05:50   We are raising money all throughout September for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:05:55   In their 60th year since opening its doors in 1962, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital has grown in size

00:06:02   and capabilities for this one special reason that they have, which is finding cures and

00:06:06   saving children because they believe that children all over the world deserve the same

00:06:10   chance at survival.

00:06:12   We love St. Jude and being there and hosting the podcast with them for all that time and

00:06:17   getting to interact with the people that we, one of the people we get to work with and

00:06:20   seeing the incredible videos that we get to watch all night that they put together and

00:06:25   are able to show our viewers and listeners.

00:06:28   It is a good reminder of why we do the work that we do.

00:06:32   Cancer Awareness Month is an opportunity for us to come together in the fight against childhood

00:06:35   cancer because together we can make a big impact and so far this year we have made a huge impact.

00:06:41   Together as a community this year we've raised over $380,000, where we stand right now.

00:06:49   This year we have a goal of $494,840 because when we hit that we have raised $2 million over the

00:06:58   last four years as a community which is just absolutely unbelievable. If you

00:07:02   didn't catch the podcast-a-thon I'll put a link in the show notes, it's on YouTube

00:07:05   now so you can go and watch it. It really was a magical evening for me

00:07:10   honestly, it was everything I wanted it to be. I was so happy with how it came

00:07:13   together and we raised over a hundred thousand dollars, I think it was a

00:07:17   hundred and nine thousand dollars we raised which is the most we've ever

00:07:20   raised during a podcast-a-thon. Everyone's blown away including me. It was

00:07:24   It was a fun and very emotional evening.

00:07:27   I was so happy that we got to do it

00:07:31   and it was so happy to be back together in person

00:07:33   and to be in the studio and just had a great time

00:07:36   and we raised a lot of money together

00:07:37   and we had a lot of fun.

00:07:38   Jason, you did such a good job with the Family Feud.

00:07:42   Oh sorry, the feuding families.

00:07:44   I was dying watching it. - Literally extinct.

00:07:46   - It was so funny.

00:07:47   So that's there for you to go and watch too.

00:07:50   Yeah, it was really, really great

00:07:52   and yeah, I'm just really happy to be here

00:07:55   to be able to do this.

00:07:56   And I'm even more happy with how much money

00:07:58   we've raised together.

00:08:00   Please go to stju.org/relay.

00:08:03   You can donate still up until the end of the month

00:08:06   and we're gonna keep talking about this.

00:08:07   We're doing the first time we've ever done this this year

00:08:10   on September the 30th.

00:08:11   Little more details to come shortly.

00:08:13   We're gonna be doing a closing celebration

00:08:15   where we announce the final total raised

00:08:17   and close the fundraiser.

00:08:18   We've never done that before,

00:08:19   but we wanna make fun out of that.

00:08:21   so we're going to be hanging out on stream for a couple of hours

00:08:23   and talking about stuff, playing some games, those kinds of things.

00:08:27   So you can come catch me and Steven then.

00:08:29   We've decided we want to do it,

00:08:32   but we haven't worked out any of the plans yet

00:08:34   other than the fact that we're doing it.

00:08:36   Because the goal, sorry, the final total every year,

00:08:41   it's always so much higher than when we end the Podcastathon.

00:08:45   We've raised tons of thousands of dollars since the podcast ended a couple of days ago.

00:08:55   So we want to do something more to celebrate where we actually end at the end of the month.

00:09:01   So this is the first year we're doing that and I hope in future years that also becomes more of a grand affair too.

00:09:07   So we can get to celebrate a bit as a community is what we've all come together to do.

00:09:11   We've mentioned you can donate, and you can donate any amount that you want.

00:09:15   You can also sign up to fundraise.

00:09:16   We have over 200 people that have signed up to fundraise themselves, and there are some

00:09:20   special incentives that are available to you for that.

00:09:24   So there's a bunch of stuff for you to go and check out.

00:09:26   Please go to stj.org/relay.

00:09:28   Check out the podcast.

00:09:29   I'll put a link in the show notes.

00:09:30   Thank you so much to everybody who's tuned in and everyone that's donated so far.

00:09:34   That's a follow-up for you, Jason Snow.

00:09:36   Okay.

00:09:37   All right.

00:09:38   I'd like to thank the Academy.

00:09:39   Yeah.

00:09:40   like to go ahead and thank the Academy on behalf of Ted Lasso?

00:09:43   Yes, thanks Emmy Awards for once again bestowing many Emmys upon Apple TV+'s Ted Lasso. Best

00:09:53   comedy. Jason Sudeikis won, lead actor. Brett Goldstein won, supporting actor. And they

00:09:59   got a directing Emmy as well. So more, I mean, the big one is, I mean, Sudeikis really and

00:10:06   Goldstein are great, but also the best comedy means that Apple has won that one two years

00:10:11   in a row, plus they've got best picture. Like, you know, it's good. It's good for Apple.

00:10:17   It makes Apple happy and makes them feel like their service is legitimate.

00:10:20   Oh, I bet. I was a bit disappointed that Severance didn't pick up any major wins.

00:10:27   Tough, tough categories. I mean, I think Ted Lasso did really well and I definitely heard

00:10:31   people grousing about that too. There's a lot. And, you know, peak TV. There's a lot

00:10:35   a really good stuff out there and for Severance I think the truth is for Severance the honor

00:10:38   was just to be nominated. You know I think you're right that that drama that best drama

00:10:43   category was absolutely stacked this year. You know like everyone is mad about whatever

00:10:48   it's at least one show that didn't win it you know what I mean like I am as equally

00:10:52   upset that Better Call Saul didn't win it but I know they're gonna get one more shot

00:10:56   and I really do I really hope they pick it up next next year because they've never won

00:11:01   Which is what show so good, but I also wanted severance to win

00:11:06   So I think one of those things where like most people were just not gonna be happy about where the best drama went

00:11:10   But yeah, it's really interesting to see I still have my eye on on Ted lasso

00:11:18   Like what are they gonna do?

00:11:19   Like it seems like I was reading some stuff that apparently the the season's been delayed a little bit which which has been called

00:11:26   Sudekis perfectionism?

00:11:28   - Yeah, there was actually a lengthy piece in Puck News,

00:11:32   which is a subscription site that is fascinating

00:11:37   'cause it went into a lot of details about

00:11:39   how Bill Lawrence is not one of the showrunners this year

00:11:44   who sort of helped them get started

00:11:45   and he was never a major creative force,

00:11:48   but like he wasn't involved this time,

00:11:50   he wasn't over there,

00:11:51   he's got other shows that he's doing.

00:11:52   Sudeikis, you know, exerting more of his power as, you know,

00:11:57   and the fact is that those guys, him and Brendan Hunt,

00:12:01   those guys were the brains of the show

00:12:03   from the beginning, really, who plays Coach Beard.

00:12:07   And they kind of stepped into even more authority this time,

00:12:12   but also it sounds like they demanded some, you know,

00:12:18   rewrites and they changed some stuff midstream

00:12:21   and they added additional shooting locations

00:12:24   for stuff late in the season.

00:12:26   And this was all keyed off of his moment when he accepted

00:12:30   and he said that, essentially he said,

00:12:32   "You'll see season three eventually."

00:12:34   Because they wanted it this summer, which is now over.

00:12:38   And it's unclear when season three of Ted Lasso

00:12:41   is even gonna be done.

00:12:42   And then the article also went into a bunch of stuff

00:12:44   about like, it was a really good article,

00:12:48   but it's like the compensation

00:12:50   that some of the actors are grumbling because they don't get paid as much as they should

00:12:54   for this Emmy-winning show, but at the same time it has made their careers so that they're

00:12:58   making a lot of money on other things now because they're bankable and that Halbright

00:13:03   Goldstein doesn't get paid much as an actor given that he's won two Emmys, but he does

00:13:06   get paid as a writer and a producer, so that kind of like eases the pain a little bit.

00:13:11   There's a lot of complications going on.

00:13:14   He is a star on the rise, right? And that it came from being so good in Ted Lasso.

00:13:19   of the people who are in Ted Lasso, even if they don't make a lot of money, and I'm not

00:13:22   saying they shouldn't make a lot of money from Ted Lasso, but the other thing they're

00:13:25   getting is a real boost to their careers. But there's a lot going on, and there's money

00:13:30   overages when they say we want to go shoot in Amsterdam. Like, there's money overages

00:13:34   and who pays for it, and that's fascinating because of course Warner Brothers is the producer

00:13:38   of the show, even though it airs on Apple TV+, and so there's a question of like, who

00:13:43   pays for the overages? Does Apple pay for it? Does Warner Brothers pay for it? Does

00:13:49   Does Apple use Apple Pay when Apple pays for it? How many woodchucks would a woodchuck chuck?

00:13:54   So uh fascinating stuff.

00:13:55   I'm sure hanging over all of it too is like a desire from a lot of people, maybe not everyone,

00:14:01   for the show to continue and like what what does that mean and are they going to? Are

00:14:05   they going to try and find a way? Like this is stuff we don't really have any answers

00:14:09   to yet.

00:14:10   Yeah it's uh all just kind of floating out there um of um because I think the puck story

00:14:18   suggests that although everybody has always insisted that it's a three and out sort of

00:14:25   thing, that there's a feeling a lot of people involved have this feeling that everybody

00:14:30   may realize at some point before too long that this is one of, if not the high points

00:14:36   of their career and that it probably wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if they extended.

00:14:41   The third season is already 12 episodes, so they've already extended. It's like give us

00:14:46   as much as you can. But they've been pretty insistent that the story ends after three

00:14:51   years. But I've been saying for years now here on this show that you have to resist

00:14:58   the money truck being backed up to your house because at some point they're going to be

00:15:01   like, "Apple's got all the money and they want you to make more Ted Lasso." And Jason

00:15:05   Sudeikis is going to have to say, "I'm okay with where we are and I don't want your money."

00:15:09   Or, you know, like, just to say what you were saying,

00:15:12   maybe Sid Acres wakes up one morning and he's like,

00:15:15   "Actually, this might be my best work,

00:15:17   and maybe I don't want it to end," you know?

00:15:20   Who knows?

00:15:21   - Or maybe there's some other way for this story to go

00:15:24   or with some of the characters or something like that.

00:15:26   And I mean, I admire him.

00:15:27   If he says, "No, this is what the show is,

00:15:29   and we're done," and walks away from it,

00:15:31   I really admire that.

00:15:33   I'm just saying that the reality is that a lot of times--

00:15:37   - It doesn't always work that way.

00:15:38   - The commerce gets in the way.

00:15:39   - Yeah, I mean, it's that classic Simpsons line, right?

00:15:42   Which is that we're all gonna have a great time

00:15:43   until the show becomes unprofitable.

00:15:45   And that's, if it keeps on making money,

00:15:48   you have all these shows that you're like,

00:15:49   how did that show go on that long?

00:15:51   Like, this weekend was the 50th anniversary of M*A*S*H,

00:15:53   which is one of the great TV shows of all time

00:15:56   for people who haven't seen it.

00:15:58   I mean, it's old, it's 50 years old,

00:15:59   although it's also 40 years,

00:16:01   because it was on the air for more than 10 years,

00:16:03   and more than 10 years, about 10 years.

00:16:07   And even in the retrospectives about 50 years of MASH,

00:16:10   they say, "Oh yeah, those last few years,

00:16:13   they weren't very good."

00:16:14   And it's like, they weren't very good,

00:16:15   but they made so much money that they just kept making them

00:16:18   even though they weren't very good.

00:16:20   'Cause the networker was like,

00:16:21   "Nope, 22 more episodes, please."

00:16:23   And everybody said, "Yep, I wanna feed my family,

00:16:26   so we're gonna make more episodes."

00:16:28   So that's the art versus commerce thing

00:16:31   that's at the heart of this.

00:16:32   And if anybody was gonna do it,

00:16:34   Jason Sudeikis might do it to say,

00:16:36   "I got what I wanted out of this. This is the story we wanted and we're walking away."

00:16:41   And there's nothing wrong with that.

00:16:44   I wanted to just, before we move on as well, just touch on the Apple Watch Series 8 a little

00:16:48   bit, in that all we're really going to touch on is a little bit.

00:16:55   You have one, right?

00:16:57   I do. It's right here in its box.

00:17:00   Yeah.

00:17:01   I have no intention, I mean I said this on the show,

00:17:05   I was with no intention of buying this device,

00:17:08   it's not for me really.

00:17:10   I'm perfectly happy with my Series 7

00:17:13   and the Series 8 doesn't have any features

00:17:15   that I want as such.

00:17:18   And like with a lot of these devices,

00:17:20   it is I think some of the easier reviews

00:17:23   and I feel like there's a little bit about the iPhone 14,

00:17:27   and we may fall into this trap a little bit too

00:17:29   of like, if you do year over year reviews,

00:17:32   there isn't that much to say about the Apple Series 8,

00:17:35   the same as the iPhone 14.

00:17:37   And then that can kind of become the review,

00:17:40   which I don't think is necessarily that helpful to everyone.

00:17:44   It's only helpful to the person that either A,

00:17:48   gets these devices every year from Apple to review,

00:17:50   or in my case, buys these devices every year

00:17:53   because I am one, want to,

00:17:55   and two, I consider it a part of my job.

00:17:58   - Yeah.

00:17:59   Just to say, I think the best review I've seen of the Apple Watch Series 8 is by Victoria

00:18:04   Song at The Verge because she comes at it from just a very simple perspective of going

00:18:09   through the product and talking about what's good about it.

00:18:13   I liked the way that she looked at it, which is a simple line but it's a fun line of "If

00:18:17   it ain't broke, don't fix it."

00:18:19   But in a way that feels more positive than the often used take I've seen about some of

00:18:24   these products of like, Apple's just doing the same again,

00:18:27   iterative, iterative.

00:18:29   - Yeah, I know we've covered this a lot,

00:18:32   but it is one of my least favorite things

00:18:34   about tech product reviewing and tech journalism in general

00:18:38   is that tendency for people who do this for a living

00:18:41   to say, "Boring!"

00:18:44   Like the goal is to entertain them

00:18:47   while they're doing their job.

00:18:48   And we know the truth, right?

00:18:50   And sometimes they get really irate,

00:18:51   Like, how dare Apple release a product

00:18:54   that's not that different from the one

00:18:56   that I reviewed last year?

00:18:57   I don't know what I'm gonna even write about.

00:18:59   And it's like, believe me, I get it,

00:19:02   but nobody, again, other than our listeners,

00:19:06   nobody's buying an Apple Watch every year, right?

00:19:08   Like, that's not the point.

00:19:09   It's that, this is why John Gruber wrote that column

00:19:12   for Macworld, you know, for me like 10 years ago,

00:19:14   that like Apple's iterative,

00:19:15   this is how Apple rolls, right?

00:19:16   It's like, it's this iterative thing.

00:19:18   And there are moments, delightful moments,

00:19:20   like in the early days of the smartphone

00:19:21   and even the early days of the Apple Watch,

00:19:23   where things were happening fast.

00:19:25   But for the most part, whether it's a laptop

00:19:28   or a smartphone or a tablet or whatever,

00:19:30   it is about the cumulative effect

00:19:32   of going several years between a purchase, right?

00:19:37   And so the Series 8 is not that interesting

00:19:40   in that it's a lot like the 7 and a lot like the 6.

00:19:43   However, if you've got a Series 6 or 5 or 4 or 3,

00:19:48   that is the, you know, you will pick up a lot of features.

00:19:52   It's just a matter of, you know,

00:19:54   'cause most people aren't buying it every year,

00:19:55   because why would they?

00:19:56   I mean, really, why, no,

00:19:58   even if they made huge changes every year,

00:20:00   people are not gonna buy an Apple Watch every year.

00:20:02   They're just not gonna do it.

00:20:04   - Yeah, and I think that this is a nice upgrade

00:20:06   if there are features in it that you want.

00:20:08   Like if you care about the temperature thing,

00:20:09   if you care about the retrospective,

00:20:12   like ovulation tracking,

00:20:13   if you care about the car crash detection,

00:20:15   like this could be a good product for you.

00:20:18   I'm just saying for me, I don't want any of those things, particularly, which in the same

00:20:24   way that I didn't want any of the stuff from the Series 6, particularly, so I didn't get

00:20:30   that one.

00:20:31   And so that's just a thing for me.

00:20:33   I think later on we go, "You wanted to talk about this and I'm really interested about

00:20:37   the upgrade cycle and I'll touch on this again in the Apple Watch then."

00:20:41   So I'm not going to buy it and I don't think you're particularly that jazzed on reviewing

00:20:46   it fast, at least.

00:20:47   - It's still in the box.

00:20:49   Yeah, it isn't that interesting as a brand new product.

00:20:51   It is more about that, like what's new over time

00:20:54   from where you're coming from.

00:20:55   And there's nothing wrong with that, that's okay.

00:20:57   - And this is a prioritization piece for me and you, right?

00:21:00   Where like, you have three iPhones right now,

00:21:03   which we're gonna talk about in a minute,

00:21:06   but like websites like The Verge,

00:21:07   they can assign each of these products

00:21:09   to three different people and like they can make it work.

00:21:12   - I feel bad for the person who is assigned a product

00:21:15   that hasn't changed much in the last year

00:21:17   because what do you say about it?

00:21:18   And the answer is, I think you have to start with,

00:21:21   this is, you know, here's what's different

00:21:23   from last year's model, and here's what is accumulated

00:21:27   over the last two or three years.

00:21:29   Because, you know, like you said,

00:21:32   which I just wanna pause for a moment

00:21:33   and reflect about this, if you want it for crash detection,

00:21:38   which I like on one level I get it,

00:21:40   but another level it's like,

00:21:41   do you get in a lot of car crashes?

00:21:43   If so, yes, you should get this product.

00:21:46   - Yeah, but I don't drive, you know,

00:21:49   like I have my iPhone on me all the time,

00:21:51   like it's not, for me, a thing, right?

00:21:55   But my wife was like, "I want that."

00:21:59   So she's gonna, you know what I mean?

00:22:01   - All right, I mean, and everybody's different.

00:22:03   That's, that would be enough.

00:22:05   It's 'cause it's always this way, right?

00:22:07   It's like, if one of these two new features matters to you,

00:22:09   get this thing.

00:22:10   Otherwise, you know, your one from last year

00:22:12   or two years ago is just fine.

00:22:14   And we move on.

00:22:15   It's hard. I get it.

00:22:16   Like, I don't envy anybody who has to try to find

00:22:20   a news angle for a slowly iterating product

00:22:23   because it's not fun.

00:22:25   I get it.

00:22:26   It's just also not...

00:22:28   Again, the problem is to say the new Apple Watch is bad

00:22:31   because it bored me.

00:22:33   Because that's not...

00:22:33   It could be bad,

00:22:35   but it not having a lot of new features versus last year

00:22:39   does not fundamentally make it bad.

00:22:41   Just 'cause it bored you is not enough to make it bad.

00:22:45   But sometimes that I do see that where it's sort of like, you didn't entertain me,

00:22:49   you know, boo bad product.

00:22:51   And it's like, well, really?

00:22:53   Is it is it a bad product or is it just boring to review?

00:22:56   Because it's not the same thing.

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00:24:44   So let's talk about the iPhone 14 and 14 Pro.

00:24:49   Could you let our listeners know what models you have

00:24:53   and how long you've had them?

00:24:54   - I got on Wednesday, I wanna say,

00:24:58   I got the, so the day that the reviews dropped,

00:25:01   which is when the second wave of your reviewers

00:25:03   get their products.

00:25:04   I got three iPhones.

00:25:06   I have a, what they claim is a purple iPhone 14.

00:25:10   I have a black iPhone 14 Pro

00:25:13   and a purple iPhone 14 Pro Max.

00:25:18   That's what I have.

00:25:19   And I've been using the black iPhone 14 Pro.

00:25:24   - Okay.

00:25:24   - Space black, spacey, spacey black.

00:25:27   - I don't really feel like there's much to say

00:25:28   about the colors anymore.

00:25:29   Like we kind of set it to the end.

00:25:31   - We sort of beaten that one to death, haven't we?

00:25:34   - Yeah.

00:25:35   - I'll just say that I feel, once again,

00:25:37   I feel like Apple is pranking me

00:25:38   by claiming that this iPhone 14 is purple

00:25:41   because it looks white to me, but it's not quite white.

00:25:44   Apparently it's purpley white.

00:25:46   - White is interesting.

00:25:48   I haven't heard it described as white so far.

00:25:52   - I'm colorblind, but it certainly doesn't jump out at you.

00:25:54   - Yes.

00:25:55   - So I'm like, okay, I don't see any colors there,

00:25:57   so it must be white or some sort of gray.

00:26:00   Yeah, but anyway, yes, we've beaten the,

00:26:02   the colors aren't the strongest.

00:26:05   - No.

00:26:06   - And people can differ on that.

00:26:07   - I love the one that I get though.

00:26:08   I got the gold.

00:26:10   I think the gold looks great.

00:26:12   For me about the gold,

00:26:12   it's all about the accents more than anything else.

00:26:15   And I think they do a good job of compliment

00:26:17   in the gold Pro Max or the gold Pro

00:26:21   with the glass back that they do.

00:26:23   And I feel the same about the white/silver too.

00:26:25   I think they do a good job of compliment

00:26:27   in the silver and the white together.

00:26:29   I think those colours are pretty standard at this point but also look really good year

00:26:35   over year.

00:26:36   I continue to be very happy with my choice of gold.

00:26:38   I have the 14 Pro Max as you would naturally assume I would do.

00:26:44   I obviously want to hear everything you have to say but I have something I need to get

00:26:47   out of the way first.

00:26:50   Which is, long time listeners of this show will know that me and Jason spent a long time

00:26:55   talking about the setup and transfer process of a new iPhone. We have had many episodes

00:27:02   about this. And then over time, it got better. I think this year, Jason, I have had what

00:27:08   I think might be the worst transfer process I've ever heard of an iPhone. For what I expected

00:27:14   to happen. How much of it had to do with you being in America and how much of it had to

00:27:19   do with other bad things? I'm not talking anything about eSIM. So the eSIM process failed

00:27:24   for me but I'm not surprised about that. I'm expecting I'll need to do that when I get

00:27:28   home and it won't be a problem. You know at the moment this phone can't talk to my actual

00:27:32   network so it can't do the transfer. I am talking merely about the phone to phone data

00:27:38   transferring process. Right? So I set the phone up as fresh so I could have it on podcast

00:27:45   on Sunday so I got it on Friday morning. So I just basically set the phone up, I put a

00:27:50   couple of apps on it so I could use it during the day and like you know take

00:27:55   pictures of it and that kind of stuff. Because plus I gave my 13 Pro Max to my

00:28:02   wife Adina and she was posting things on my Instagram and on Twitter and stuff

00:28:06   during the podcast-a-thon so I didn't have to it was really helpful but I could

00:28:09   still have my phone on me to take pictures and that kind of stuff. Then on

00:28:13   that night I refreshed I like reset the phone to factory settings and did the

00:28:19   phone-to-phone transfer. So you put the two phones next to each other and

00:28:24   you have it like it took three hours and it does the transfer from one phone to

00:28:29   the other. Then once the phone's done I set it up

00:28:34   like put the last parts in that I need to. Now I don't know if I did something

00:28:41   wrong here but I have been coming across I don't know maybe like 70% of the apps

00:28:48   that I use. It's as if they've never been used by me at all. I'm not logged in, my

00:28:55   preferences aren't synced, or it's like a bit one or the other. I'm logged out when

00:28:59   I log in my preferences are there, or I'm logged in but my preferences aren't set

00:29:04   correctly. My data is not in an application. I am going

00:29:09   through app after app and it's some form of one or the other and it is completely

00:29:16   inconsistent about which apps I'm signed into and which aren't. It's

00:29:24   absolutely maddening to me because of the inconsistency of it. Now we had John

00:29:30   Siracusa on the Podcastathon and he spoke about having a very similar

00:29:35   experience. Now John was talking a little bit about some of the beta apps that he

00:29:40   was using but it isn't just beta apps that have been giving me this issue. I have

00:29:43   It has been the last two days, I'm basically having to try and go through and open effectively every app that I have

00:29:50   to try and get it to some kind of normalcy again.

00:29:55   Is this one logged out or is this one logged in? Are the notifications on or are they not?

00:29:59   I don't know what has happened, but just something terrible happened.

00:30:06   And then I get so far into it, it's like a sunk cost thing.

00:30:09   where like I was working on it for a day and I think it's like why don't you just

00:30:14   try it again? I said well because I spent last day setting it up halfway I don't

00:30:19   now want to go through this whole thing again if I then do another three hour

00:30:23   transfer and I'm back to where I was before so like I don't know what has

00:30:26   happened. So you did device device transfer instead of iCloud backup

00:30:30   transfer? Yes. Yes. Which I did I've done before and my understanding is this is

00:30:36   the best way to do it now?

00:30:38   - I mean, it's not what I do.

00:30:40   I just do iCloud because I don't wanna wait

00:30:42   for hours and hours.

00:30:43   I wanna have the phone up and running again

00:30:46   and then have it backfill.

00:30:48   And it does mean that I have to log into a few things,

00:30:50   although not as many as it used to be.

00:30:52   My concern, so my son got his

00:30:56   and he did a device to device transfer.

00:31:00   And it said five minutes left for four hours.

00:31:05   four hours. And then basically we kind of flipped it open and added just, just basically

00:31:12   said just no, go ahead. And, uh, or, or maybe we powered it off. I think I just flipped

00:31:18   it open, you know, from the bottom. But anyway, so we basically sort of like, I wondered,

00:31:23   are you in a weird interim state or were you really done after all? And it's unclear and

00:31:30   and I haven't heard from him, so I don't know.

00:31:33   Probably if he had, he would come to me

00:31:36   because that's how that works in this house.

00:31:38   - Yeah, yeah, of course.

00:31:40   Or maybe he's having trouble and he just doesn't know.

00:31:42   Like what was the thing with the USB port

00:31:44   that was broken or whatever, right?

00:31:47   That he just didn't tell you?

00:31:48   Maybe it's one of those situations.

00:31:50   But yeah, look, I don't know if I did something wrong

00:31:52   or whatever, I don't know.

00:31:53   But all I know is for me, this shouldn't be what occurs.

00:31:59   So I've just found this whole thing to be very frustrating.

00:32:01   Potentially I'm an edge case here,

00:32:03   or potentially I'm not, but like,

00:32:05   this is one of the most important things

00:32:09   that they should be working on.

00:32:10   It's like, because it's not even about the year to year,

00:32:13   anytime somebody does this,

00:32:15   every single path should always be flawless

00:32:18   for as much as it possibly can be.

00:32:21   And like, I don't understand how an app can say,

00:32:26   transfer from device to device,

00:32:28   have all of the stuff stored in it, but maybe logged out.

00:32:31   Right?

00:32:33   Like, it's just like, how is this occurring?

00:32:35   And then like, I'm running into all these random edge cases

00:32:38   now because apps are getting confused.

00:32:41   - Some apps are bad at this.

00:32:43   Some apps won't let you bring it across.

00:32:46   - Yeah, and there's some that I expect.

00:32:48   - If you're having that a lot, then you're having a,

00:32:50   you're having a bad experience.

00:32:51   And the thing that I always wonder,

00:32:53   because I, my transfer went fine, but one, I used iCloud,

00:32:57   And two, I didn't do it on Friday when everybody is there.

00:33:00   And that's always my fear,

00:33:02   is that there's some authentication or authorization

00:33:05   or some other thing that's going on.

00:33:06   Theoretically, if you're doing device to device,

00:33:08   you should not have to have this, right?

00:33:10   Because you're not using anything but the two devices

00:33:13   to talk to each other.

00:33:13   - And that's why I did it,

00:33:14   'cause I'm in a hotel on hotel wifi, right?

00:33:17   So I'm like, I'm not gonna do this over iCloud.

00:33:20   But still, Jason, all the apps downloaded from iCloud.

00:33:23   So it was like, what was the point?

00:33:25   I had to leave the phone overnight for the apps to download.

00:33:29   Like, what is it actually transferring?

00:33:31   Like, when I opened the phone and it was done,

00:33:34   every app said, like, "Waiting,"

00:33:35   and they were all downloading from the app store.

00:33:37   It's like, what is happening in this process?

00:33:40   Like, what I'll say is, I'm going back to iCloud again,

00:33:44   because I feel like that was less frustrating, maybe.

00:33:48   So yeah, I just needed to get out of the way,

00:33:51   'cause this has been a very frustrating thing for me

00:33:53   over the last couple of days.

00:33:54   So I just needed to get it out there.

00:33:57   We can now move on from this if you want to.

00:33:59   - I would be very curious what would happen

00:34:02   if you erased your phone

00:34:03   and did device-to-device transfer again,

00:34:05   and if that would actually work better.

00:34:08   But I understand your point,

00:34:09   which is you don't wanna go through this again

00:34:12   if it fails again.

00:34:13   - If it fixed, then great.

00:34:14   But also I have now spent like four hours in total,

00:34:17   like going through all the apps and log it.

00:34:19   So now at this point, I'm kinda like,

00:34:21   I'm just gonna move on.

00:34:22   But yeah, potentially if I would have,

00:34:25   what I should have done in hindsight

00:34:28   is just do it again immediately.

00:34:30   But I didn't and now this is where I am.

00:34:33   So yeah, eSIM for me, I'm confident it will work

00:34:35   when I get home.

00:34:36   Even if the device to device transfer doesn't work,

00:34:39   my network does eSIMs, I'll get an eSIM, it'll be fine.

00:34:41   I tried it while I was here, it didn't work, but whatever.

00:34:43   How did that process go for you, the eSIM part?

00:34:46   - I'd like to exclusively reveal, it's not exclusive,

00:34:48   I'd like to reveal here after the great cliffhanger

00:34:51   last week about my eSIM experience

00:34:53   that I apparently did already transfer to an eSIM

00:34:56   because there was no SIM card in my iPhone.

00:34:59   So yeah, I already-

00:35:01   - Jason, you had Schrodinger's SIM card in your phone.

00:35:04   What? - Well, until I opened it up,

00:35:06   it could have been an eSIM or it could have not.

00:35:07   Actually, I went to the cellular menu

00:35:09   and it did not say convert to eSIM.

00:35:12   Instead it said remove or delete eSIM.

00:35:14   And I was like, wait a second.

00:35:16   And then I popped it open and there was no SIM.

00:35:21   in the SIM tray, so.

00:35:22   - That is incredible.

00:35:24   - I already was living the eSIM life.

00:35:26   The call was coming from inside the phone.

00:35:28   And so I just did a transfer and I did the iCloud backup

00:35:31   and the, would you like to transfer your number

00:35:34   from phone A to phone B?

00:35:35   And I said, why, yes, I would like my number

00:35:37   to be transferred and it transferred it

00:35:39   and not really any problems.

00:35:42   And it said, would you like to transfer your Apple Watch?

00:35:43   And I said, yes, and the Apple Watch rebooted

00:35:45   and it was very quick and that all seemed to work fine.

00:35:50   Although, what I will say is that,

00:35:52   and I don't know whether this is the transfer

00:35:54   or whether it's the OS update or what,

00:35:57   but my Apple Watch seems to not be talking to things

00:36:02   as reliably as it did before.

00:36:05   I went out for a run

00:36:07   and it couldn't see the cellular network.

00:36:10   And then I've had a couple of times

00:36:11   where it's done that little icon that basically says,

00:36:13   "I can't find my phone.

00:36:15   "My phone is my buddy."

00:36:16   And like, its buddy was right there.

00:36:19   but it was like, no, no phone.

00:36:21   So I had to restart them both

00:36:22   to get them to talk to each other again.

00:36:24   And again, I don't know whether that is an effect

00:36:27   of the move or the iOS version

00:36:29   or the watchOS update or what,

00:36:31   but I had had a little bit of that.

00:36:33   But in terms of the direct from iPhone 13 mini

00:36:37   to iPhone 14 Pro transfer, that all went pretty smoothly.

00:36:42   And because I chose iCloud, I was actually up and running,

00:36:46   although with apps still having to load pretty fast.

00:36:49   - Yeah.

00:36:50   Yeah, I'm honestly always surprised

00:36:53   that the Apple Watch transfer works at all.

00:36:55   Like that, it seems so precariously weird.

00:36:58   - They have come so far with that.

00:37:01   Like I did not do anything.

00:37:04   I didn't have to do anything.

00:37:05   I was listening to, I think ATP last week

00:37:08   where they're like, was it John?

00:37:10   Somebody was saying, it was probably John,

00:37:12   like, oh, what do I have to do?

00:37:13   Do I unpair and do all that?

00:37:15   And I'm sitting there thinking, no, don't do anything.

00:37:18   - Yeah.

00:37:19   - Because it's all built in now.

00:37:21   It didn't used to be, but it's all built in now.

00:37:25   And it says, hey, you have an Apple Watch.

00:37:28   Is that Apple Watch moving to this iPhone too?

00:37:31   And you say, yes.

00:37:31   And it goes, great.

00:37:33   I'm gonna need to restart your Apple Watch,

00:37:35   but otherwise it'll be fine.

00:37:36   And then the Apple Watch restarts on its own and seen.

00:37:41   Like that's it.

00:37:42   That was it.

00:37:43   - It's incredible.

00:37:44   that that was. You used to have to unpair your watch from your iPhone and then

00:37:50   repair it and watch as it reloaded everything onto your watch, right? That is

00:37:55   out the window now. Well, because that unpairing was effectively delete

00:37:59   everything. Yeah, you do an iCloud backup, wipe your watch, and then go to your new

00:38:05   phone and pair a new watch and restore an iCloud backup. Well now, they

00:38:12   don't do that anymore because obviously Apple has figured out ways in watchOS and iOS where

00:38:19   a phone can take a phone that's been restored from a different phone can take ownership

00:38:24   of a watch and the watch goes, "Oh, you're over there now. Got it." And all it takes

00:38:29   is a reboot, which is set off manually by the phone and so that the user doesn't have

00:38:35   to do it. So I was very happy with that because that used to that used to be terrible and

00:38:40   and now it's actually pretty okay.

00:38:42   - I expect that it's something along the lines

00:38:44   of the watch independence over time, right?

00:38:46   It's allowed for it to be able to live

00:38:48   a little bit more freely that way.

00:38:50   - Maybe, although this feels very much like,

00:38:54   I mean, it's a little bit of that,

00:38:56   but it's like when they launched it,

00:38:58   they didn't really think about what happens

00:39:00   when you upgrade your iPhone,

00:39:01   and they have inserted something that is literally,

00:39:06   there's something in the code that lets a new watch say,

00:39:09   "You're mine now."

00:39:11   And then the Apple Watch, or a new phone,

00:39:13   says, "You're mine.

00:39:14   Come over here, little watch."

00:39:15   And the watch is like, "Oh yeah, I live over there now,

00:39:18   and reboot, and it's done."

00:39:20   And that is, it's a beautiful thing.

00:39:22   - What do you think of the always-on display?

00:39:24   - It seems, now, okay.

00:39:29   I am not your average iPhone user.

00:39:31   I really am not.

00:39:32   I use my iPad way more than my iPhone.

00:39:34   I use my Mac way more than my iPhone.

00:39:36   I almost said I live in my garage.

00:39:38   I live in my house, I work in my garage,

00:39:40   my commute involves not going outside.

00:39:43   And so I'm not really out and about with an iPhone a lot.

00:39:48   So I'm bad at this. - So things have gone wrong

00:39:49   for me, I live in the garage now.

00:39:51   - I live down, this is where it is now.

00:39:53   There's something heavy fell in front of the door

00:39:55   and now I have to live here.

00:39:56   There's a blow up mattress out here,

00:39:59   I can blow that up later.

00:40:00   So that all said, that's my disclaimer

00:40:03   about being a kind of a weird iPhone user.

00:40:06   It seems inessential to me, if that makes sense.

00:40:10   It seems like, it's nice, I mean, I've been,

00:40:14   since I got it, I've been carrying it around

00:40:16   and I put it on my coffee table and I put it on my desk

00:40:20   and I'm looking at it now and like,

00:40:22   is it nice that I can see the time?

00:40:24   Sure, I can see the time on my watch though.

00:40:26   Is it nice that I can see that I've got the weather forecast

00:40:30   and I know what my next appointment is

00:40:33   in the little widgets?

00:40:34   Sure, is it nice that I can see sort of the album art

00:40:38   for whatever is currently playing

00:40:39   if I've got that feature turned on?

00:40:41   Yeah, that's actually, that is kinda nice.

00:40:43   But is any of it essential?

00:40:45   I kinda think not.

00:40:46   And then on top of that, I would say,

00:40:49   this is one of those cases where I think Apple's restraint

00:40:52   in terms of design hurts it.

00:40:55   Because the widgets especially are so restrained

00:41:00   that the information,

00:41:01   I know that they didn't want a lot of information density

00:41:04   on the lock screen, I get it.

00:41:07   But like that always on screen would be more valuable

00:41:11   if I could see more things or they could be bigger.

00:41:14   So I could see them from further away

00:41:16   because oftentimes my phone is laying, you know,

00:41:20   four feet away or two feet away,

00:41:23   not like right by my eyeline.

00:41:25   And they didn't do that.

00:41:28   It is limited in what widgets it has.

00:41:32   And so, yeah, that's the, I mean, like,

00:41:36   I think it's cool, I guess, but it does seem inessential

00:41:40   or I could also say unnecessary,

00:41:43   or like it's cool that it's there,

00:41:46   but I'm not getting nearly as much kind of use

00:41:51   out of that information as I thought I might,

00:41:55   or I hoped I would.

00:41:57   How have you reacted to it?

00:41:59   - I'll start by saying I really have grown

00:42:01   to like it a lot.

00:42:03   And I'll come back to that in a minute.

00:42:05   But it does feel to me in a way that like,

00:42:08   somebody at Apple heard that an always on display

00:42:12   was a thing that existed

00:42:14   and decided to make the iPhone's display always stay on.

00:42:18   Which is not necessarily what people think of

00:42:23   when they hear about an always on display on a phone.

00:42:27   Right?

00:42:28   - They literally thought,

00:42:29   what if we take our lock screen

00:42:30   and just keep it there all the time?

00:42:31   What if the phone looks like it actually never goes to sleep?

00:42:34   That's what they decided.

00:42:37   And you know what though? That may have been like,

00:42:40   "Hey, here's what we're going to do that no one else can do."

00:42:45   Quote unquote.

00:42:46   "We are going to make it look like the iPhone never goes to sleep.

00:42:51   Won't that be cool? No one else does that."

00:42:54   Right?

00:42:55   I'm not saying that that is a bad thing,

00:42:57   because I actually know after a couple of days,

00:43:00   I think I like it more than it does that it's like this.

00:43:04   - And we call it the sleepless retina display.

00:43:07   - Yeah, but like it's a bold choice, right?

00:43:12   Because everyone's gonna have this experience

00:43:15   when they get, if they get an always on display on a phone,

00:43:18   like on the iPhone, a Pro Max,

00:43:20   maybe if it comes to other device later on.

00:43:22   Within the first couple of hours of using it,

00:43:25   you're gonna look at it and be like, oh, my phone's on.

00:43:28   But it isn't, right?

00:43:30   Like you think you haven't locked it,

00:43:31   but no, it's just how it looks now.

00:43:33   Because they have done a very good job

00:43:35   of making it just look like the phone's display dims.

00:43:39   That's it, right?

00:43:40   Like I can look at the picture of my wife

00:43:42   and one thing I'll say that they're doing, Jason,

00:43:46   I'm pretty sure they've done this.

00:43:48   I think that they are looking for people

00:43:52   and keeping more color on the person on the lock screen.

00:43:57   Because on the image that I have here, the background is less saturated than the subject of the image on display.

00:44:09   And if I look at it, I can kind of see there's a little line that goes around her hair.

00:44:16   Like it's a portrait photo, which it isn't.

00:44:19   So I think that they're doing some stuff here with their new person detection feature stuff.

00:44:25   - Oh yeah, they are definitely processing,

00:44:30   like really processing those images

00:44:33   in order to get them to show up.

00:44:37   I mean, not only are they doing all of that processing

00:44:39   for the layering effect,

00:44:40   which is not only limited to like portrait mode,

00:44:44   they will process any photo

00:44:46   and find the foreground and the background.

00:44:48   And I think you're right.

00:44:49   I think they are also generating a,

00:44:54   we saw this because somebody found

00:44:55   that the clownfish pictures, you remember that?

00:44:58   And it looked like it wasn't just like a filter,

00:45:03   like they were processing it for a certain effect

00:45:08   and that that's the dimming effect.

00:45:10   So something is going on there.

00:45:12   - So that's like, so what I've come to really like

00:45:16   about it though is just, it's just my phone.

00:45:18   My phone looks like this.

00:45:19   I see my phone like this all the time

00:45:21   and it always is like this.

00:45:22   I have the widgets there.

00:45:24   I can see notifications when they come in if I have it set up that way.

00:45:27   I've actually come to really like it.

00:45:29   There is a consistency in the experience that I like.

00:45:33   You know, just like this is just what my phone looks like.

00:45:35   And I use sleep focus mode

00:45:39   and therefore it goes off at night time on its own

00:45:43   which is exactly what I hoped it would do.

00:45:45   I have seen people say on Twitter that like if you don't do that

00:45:48   the phone's too bright, which I expected 100% would be the case.

00:45:52   So I recommend people look at the sleep focus mode.

00:45:55   I will say it's really cool.

00:45:56   You should do it.

00:45:58   Do what I do.

00:45:59   Create a home screen as well.

00:46:00   So you take off the apps that you shouldn't be looking at

00:46:02   at midnight because really you should be going to sleep

00:46:04   or you should be winding down or whatever.

00:46:06   So take slack off your home screen

00:46:08   and all that kind of stuff.

00:46:09   So you have less of a desire to look at those things.

00:46:12   That is my recommendation to you

00:46:14   if you have one of these phones

00:46:15   because then you'll also benefit from the phone

00:46:17   going into sleep focus mode.

00:46:18   You don't, like don't get it twisted.

00:46:21   This is what I thought.

00:46:21   I thought if you set up the sleep focus mode,

00:46:23   you had to use the sleep tracking

00:46:25   and all that kind of stuff,

00:46:26   you don't have to do any of that.

00:46:28   So you can just have it do its thing

00:46:29   and the screen will turn off at night

00:46:31   kind of around the time that you want it to.

00:46:33   But what I also am wanting to do,

00:46:35   and I'm gonna play around with this a little bit more

00:46:37   over the next few weeks is,

00:46:38   so one of the times where I would have my phone

00:46:41   kind of like on my desk or whatever,

00:46:43   or like when I'm recording a show,

00:46:44   I have you in a dock,

00:46:46   I wanna set up a recording focus mode.

00:46:49   Sorry, I have a recording focus mode already,

00:46:51   which really pairs back with the notifications that I get.

00:46:55   But now I'm thinking, oh, I should set up a recording home

00:46:58   screen that has widgets that might be useful for recording

00:47:02   as opposed to usual.

00:47:04   So maybe there's a time tracker on there,

00:47:06   and maybe I have a different wallpaper.

00:47:08   So I'm liking it for that, because I'm playing around

00:47:12   with it more.

00:47:14   Also, on the display, when the display is actually on,

00:47:18   I have found the additional brightness

00:47:20   that this screen has to make the phone feel more vivid

00:47:23   in a way that I wouldn't have necessarily expected,

00:47:26   just brightness to do.

00:47:27   I don't know if there's maybe something else going on

00:47:30   with the display itself,

00:47:31   but putting the phone side by side

00:47:34   at both what they consider to be the automatic brightness

00:47:38   and also setting up the same brightness level,

00:47:40   I find the display on the 14 Pro Max

00:47:43   to be nicer than the 13 Pro Max.

00:47:46   So that's great.

00:47:47   The extra brightness is always great, especially outdoors.

00:47:50   I don't know if you've experienced anything like that.

00:47:53   I know you obviously get a lot of sun where you are.

00:47:55   - Yeah, it's a big, bright display.

00:47:58   I mean, there's no doubt about it.

00:47:59   I haven't, you know,

00:48:00   I don't think I have anything to quantify there.

00:48:02   Every time I hit something that's in HDR,

00:48:04   it's like, whoa, right?

00:48:06   Like the- - I love it.

00:48:07   - Yeah, yeah.

00:48:08   - It's very impressive there.

00:48:10   But yeah, and yeah, it's a bright, beautiful,

00:48:12   colorful display.

00:48:13   There's no doubt about it.

00:48:14   I just, the always on seems,

00:48:18   I think you're exactly right in saying

00:48:20   Apple just wanted it to be,

00:48:22   what if my screen never went dark?

00:48:24   And I also appreciate that there's a bunch of stuff

00:48:26   like the live activities stuff that will make this,

00:48:30   in some ways, the bottom part of the screen

00:48:33   is a canvas for live activities to appear on.

00:48:36   - Yeah.

00:48:37   - Just like currently the now playing interface

00:48:40   for audio goes there, and that's actually really useful.

00:48:44   And so I can see like if you've got some other kind of live

00:48:47   activity going on to have it sit there and know that it's

00:48:50   your, you know, it's your DoorDash order or sit there

00:48:54   and it's a baseball game or sit there and it's your Uber

00:48:58   driver and when they're going to come and get you.

00:49:00   And with those activities also on there,

00:49:05   I feel like it's a little more information dense and a

00:49:08   little more useful.

00:49:09   But one of the funny quirks of this cycle is that those

00:49:14   don't exist yet, right?

00:49:16   And that leads to the dynamic island not having

00:49:19   as broad support as it presumably will down the road.

00:49:22   And it also means that the lock screen

00:49:24   is a little more barren.

00:49:25   Although regardless of that,

00:49:26   I think there should be a second row of widgets optional.

00:49:29   And I think there could be more widgets on the home screen

00:49:31   and that that would be perfectly nice.

00:49:33   And I think they're a little too spare,

00:49:34   especially when they've got these huge phone screens.

00:49:37   So yeah, it just feels a little bit less necessary,

00:49:43   or less necessary than I thought it would.

00:49:45   I thought it would be like, oh, now I can see everything.

00:49:48   But especially now that they're rolling up notifications,

00:49:52   there's not as much on my lock screen as there used to be.

00:49:56   - Yeah, I mean, I use count notifications as an option

00:50:03   where it just shows the number at the bottom now,

00:50:05   so there's less on mine.

00:50:06   But I like it like that.

00:50:08   - Yeah, so there's some space there that I feel like,

00:50:11   I appreciate that there's not a lot going on there

00:50:13   and that for a lot of people that's great,

00:50:15   but I feel like if you're gonna have this screen

00:50:18   that is always on and can be in my peripheral vision,

00:50:22   I'd like the option to put more stuff on it

00:50:24   so I'm not required to pick it up or tap it

00:50:28   in order to see what's going on.

00:50:30   If I could put more stuff on there that I could just,

00:50:32   right, you know, the idea that I can pick it up

00:50:34   and unlock it and launch an app

00:50:37   and get a piece of information and then close it down.

00:50:40   But one of the ways that an always on lock screen

00:50:43   could help me is by having me put,

00:50:45   or having the phone put it because I set this up,

00:50:48   that information on the lock screen.

00:50:51   So I don't have to do anything but look at my phone.

00:50:54   And then I've saved myself a pickup and an unlock

00:50:57   and an app launch and maybe being distracted

00:51:00   and launching another app while I'm there.

00:51:02   I think there's value in that.

00:51:03   And I think that the problem with the always on screen

00:51:06   as it is right now is that it's not enabling

00:51:09   quite enough of that kind of behavior.

00:51:11   - You mentioned the dynamic island.

00:51:14   - Yep.

00:51:14   - What do you think about the dynamic island?

00:51:17   - You know, I think it's a really,

00:51:20   everything we said last time,

00:51:21   I think it is a really clever idea.

00:51:24   I love that Apple is leaning into a design limitation

00:51:29   and making it a strength.

00:51:30   I think it's very smartly designed.

00:51:34   I think that the way it looks and the way it moves

00:51:37   is beautiful in, you know, for some,

00:51:42   as much as a system widget,

00:51:46   status widget can be beautiful,

00:51:47   like they bless them for trying, right?

00:51:49   Like they're trying really hard to make a black blob

00:51:51   at the top of the screen, dance and sing.

00:51:53   And like, it's like, wow, okay, you didn't have to do that,

00:51:56   but I love that you're trying that.

00:51:58   And so like, I'm encouraged by it,

00:52:02   but again, the problem is, and this is like,

00:52:07   I know I said this a week or two ago,

00:52:09   it's just like when it starts out beta season,

00:52:11   you get that new OS on your phone as a beta user,

00:52:14   and you're like, all right, all right,

00:52:17   this is gonna be great 'cause there's this great feature

00:52:19   that I'm really looking forward to.

00:52:20   And then you realize, oh, that feature

00:52:23   has to be built in to the new APIs

00:52:28   by all the third-party apps that I use.

00:52:30   And that means that I'm probably not gonna actually see

00:52:34   almost anybody using this feature until the fall

00:52:37   when the OS ships or even months after

00:52:40   as they get their apps updated for the OS

00:52:43   and it support the new APIs.

00:52:45   This is a little like that where it's like,

00:52:47   all right, the dynamic island is here,

00:52:49   but other than a handful of Apple apps

00:52:51   and people who are using the now playing interface

00:52:55   for their audio, or I think there's one other example

00:52:59   where stuff gets thrown up there,

00:53:01   but basically everybody else just has to wait

00:53:04   for the Live Activities API.

00:53:06   And so it feels like a work in progress.

00:53:08   It feels like Apple has built a really interesting scaffold

00:53:11   that might become great, but it's too early to tell

00:53:16   because right now most of what I see up there

00:53:20   is my music or podcasts playing.

00:53:23   What about you?

00:53:24   - Yeah, just to touch on the Live Activities thing

00:53:26   'cause I agree with everything you said about that, right?

00:53:28   that is like a one-two punch in a way.

00:53:31   You can experience it for what it is now,

00:53:33   and it's going to get way better later.

00:53:34   And because of that, I kind of can't believe

00:53:38   that Live Activities was not a 16.0 feature.

00:53:41   They must have known how important it was going to be.

00:53:45   And I'm surprised.

00:53:47   Because for as much as I can tell,

00:53:51   I don't believe developers can specifically ask

00:53:56   for what goes up there, or maybe I'm wrong.

00:53:59   Yeah, anyway, but it surprised me.

00:54:01   - I think they could do it.

00:54:02   So this is my question, which is,

00:54:05   is the live activities thing not in 16.0

00:54:10   because it wasn't ready?

00:54:13   Or is it not in there because they knew

00:54:15   that if they released it--

00:54:16   - It would do something away.

00:54:18   - Everybody would know what the dynamic island is.

00:54:21   I think maybe it's the latter, and so here we are.

00:54:25   - I think you might be right.

00:54:26   feel a little bit like a, I mean, I get it, right? You don't want to give away the secret,

00:54:31   but now your secret has come out and yet nobody's going to be able to take advantage of it. Like,

00:54:35   people are going to expect the Dynamic Island to just be supported by all the apps, and

00:54:40   it's not going to be for a while. So it's a challenge for Apple, and I get it, but it

00:54:46   does diminish what the possibilities are. And like I said, I think that's true of the

00:54:50   lock screen too. Like so it's a double whammy because I think live activities

00:54:55   works right? It's like live activities make the lock screen better and they

00:54:59   make the Dynamic Island better and it's not there.

00:55:02   However the Dynamic Island for what it is right now

00:55:07   it's kind of like you know like it or not this is Apple at its best where they

00:55:13   have had a smart idea which improves upon the technological limitations that

00:55:21   they are otherwise given and they create something incredibly fun with it. The way

00:55:29   in which this thing animates is so unnecessary but great. Like CableCasser

00:55:38   had a tweet that I think kind of went viral over the last few days where he's

00:55:41   is showing how you can, depending on the angle at which you throw an application,

00:55:50   like when you're going to the home screen,

00:55:53   depends, then has a relationship to the angle at which that app minimizes

00:55:59   into the dynamic island.

00:56:01   It's like, there is no reason to go to that level,

00:56:05   but I love that you did.

00:56:07   And then the reason is because we want it to just be as good as it could possibly be,

00:56:13   which not everyone would necessarily do.

00:56:16   And so I appreciate it for that.

00:56:18   The animations are very fluid.

00:56:20   They have a kind of almost alive feeling to them.

00:56:23   I do.

00:56:24   They're using that ProMotion mic, which I haven't been using for the last year.

00:56:29   And I started using it and I think, "Oh, right.

00:56:31   Oh my God."

00:56:32   Like I almost feel like I'm getting dizzy because all the ProMotion.

00:56:36   like number one reason for the pro motion,

00:56:39   like Dynamic Island really looks good

00:56:41   with that extra, the extra frames

00:56:43   and the sub pixel anti-aliasing.

00:56:46   And there's like a little glow that happens around it

00:56:49   sometimes depending on the context.

00:56:51   There's a lot going on there.

00:56:53   - It's really, really cool, right?

00:56:55   Like it's really, really cool.

00:56:57   - Right, so the next question is, but is it useful?

00:56:59   And the answer is kind of right now, kind of,

00:57:03   But I feel again that we need to see

00:57:07   the third party support here

00:57:09   and that's gonna tell the story.

00:57:10   And I hope that Apple has figured out

00:57:13   the third party support story, right?

00:57:15   'Cause the danger is that everybody's gonna look

00:57:17   at the Live Activities API and be like, oh.

00:57:22   - The one thing I've seen people kind of grousing about

00:57:24   with Live Activities is,

00:57:26   and this does actually doesn't surprise me when I hear it,

00:57:29   but it could frustrate people.

00:57:30   You have to open an app before a live activity can begin.

00:57:35   - Right.

00:57:36   Yeah, 'cause the whole concept of the Dynamic Island

00:57:38   is that essentially you trigger an event that's happening

00:57:42   and then you leave the app.

00:57:44   And the happening events,

00:57:46   thinking of music playback as the best example,

00:57:49   you play a song and then you leave the music app

00:57:52   or Spotify or whatever,

00:57:53   but you play a song or a podcast or whatever,

00:57:55   and you leave that app.

00:57:57   And what happens next is that app

00:57:59   flies up into the dynamic island with a little waveform

00:58:02   and a little image, and it now is playing in the background

00:58:07   and that playback is being displayed in the dynamic island.

00:58:10   You can tap and hold and control it and all of that.

00:58:13   So that's the fundamental premise is like,

00:58:16   you start an activity and then you, you know,

00:58:19   swipe it off into the dynamic island

00:58:22   and you move on with your life and you,

00:58:23   and it continues living its life in the dynamic island.

00:58:27   it doesn't happen automatically, right?

00:58:29   And very little happens automatically on the iPhone.

00:58:34   But I can see that as a developer, you might be like,

00:58:38   "Oh, but wait a second, what if?"

00:58:39   And it's like, yeah, well, that's where it's gonna get you.

00:58:41   And that's the fear is like,

00:58:43   did Apple anticipate all the needs here?

00:58:46   And if they, I'm sure if they didn't,

00:58:48   they will address it down the road,

00:58:50   but they're already gonna be late with this feature

00:58:54   and people will already have had their phones

00:58:57   And, you know, I know this is the start of the journey here,

00:59:00   but that is the danger is that some new technologies die

00:59:05   because they're just, they're not adopted early on

00:59:09   and they're not embraced.

00:59:10   And that's something that, you know,

00:59:11   I think Apple really wants everybody

00:59:13   to embrace the dynamic island.

00:59:15   And that means they need to have that API be really robust

00:59:18   and have the user experience be really good.

00:59:20   - I've also found that the island makes, for me,

00:59:23   the screen feel bigger.

00:59:25   I think just because there's more pixels up there

00:59:27   that have got color on them,

00:59:28   like it just is a trick of the eye.

00:59:30   - Oh yeah.

00:59:31   All the cynical people are like,

00:59:32   oh, why do they even have those pixels up there?

00:59:34   It's like, 'cause it makes the whole phone feel bigger.

00:59:37   I've got a sky background on my iPhone right now.

00:59:40   And the fact that above the dynamic island

00:59:43   is part of the blue sky,

00:59:46   like it makes a difference.

00:59:48   It really does.

00:59:50   Even though there's no information imparted up there,

00:59:52   it's saying I'm part of the whole.

00:59:55   I am the part of this larger thing on your screen.

00:59:59   It's like, it's really smart.

01:00:01   - And it is much more noticeable than the notch ever was.

01:00:04   For me at least, at least right now.

01:00:06   - Oh yeah.

01:00:07   - I feel like I was able to ignore the notch way more.

01:00:09   I would say I use a lot of dark,

01:00:12   I use my iPhone in dark mode all the time

01:00:14   and I actually use a lot of apps in like pure black

01:00:18   rather than gray.

01:00:19   If you do that, you are treated to not seeing

01:00:22   dynamic island very much. Whether you consider that good or bad, I don't know, but I also actually

01:00:27   think the animations of the dynamic island also look nicer when you're using dark mode anyway.

01:00:32   Like if you've got something playing, to me that looks, it looks very attractive to have it that

01:00:38   way, so. Well I mostly don't use dark mode and I agree with you. It is, right, the notch was meant

01:00:48   to be ignored. It was it's like your blind spot, right? Like it's meant to eventually just fade

01:00:53   out of your view and the Dynamic Island is not like it's part of the personality of the phone

01:00:58   is that there's this blob up there this intelligent blob that morphs and and puts information around

01:01:04   it and that you can tap on and all that like that's why it's there and I think yes it's going

01:01:10   to be interesting to see how different people react to it because it as much as we made out

01:01:15   out of the notch. The notch was really easy to ignore. And this thing isn't. So is it

01:01:19   going to frustrate people? They're going to be like, "Oh, why is that stupid thing up

01:01:22   there?" Or are people going to love it? Or are people, or if we wait another week, will

01:01:27   we all have lost sight of it again? I doubt it, but it's a good question.

01:01:32   Will Barron The last thing I think to talk about is the

01:01:34   camera. I think that for me, the jury's still out a little bit on the camera. And I know

01:01:43   I've only had a couple of days to use it. It feels like across the reviews the general consensus is that

01:01:48   the pros camera is not a massive leap it's definitely not the leap that I hoped it would be

01:01:55   if you're using it normally. So if you're just taking photos regularly and they're taking the

01:02:00   48 megapixel and they're bidding it down to 12 megapixels you know the actual detail in the image

01:02:06   can sometimes be better maybe in medium to low light situations but most of the time

01:02:11   looks pretty similar to the iPhone 14.

01:02:14   And, you know, depending on who you are,

01:02:16   you may either like or not like this camera.

01:02:19   And there's some photonic engine stuff,

01:02:23   and that seems to be helping the ultrawide look better,

01:02:26   the selfie looks better, especially with the autofocus.

01:02:30   That's kind of the general consensus

01:02:31   from the reviewers that I've seen.

01:02:34   What's your take, Vin?

01:02:36   -And I want to rely on the people

01:02:38   who really care about iPhone photography

01:02:40   because they care about it more than we do.

01:02:43   I'm encouraged by the fact that it does better,

01:02:47   you know, better in low light

01:02:49   because it's doing the quad pixel thing.

01:02:51   I think that's great.

01:02:52   What I have seen, and this is what surprises me,

01:02:56   is it seems like the thing that we thought would be less,

01:03:01   more of a niche thing and less important

01:03:04   was the fact that there was a 48 megapixel sensor in there

01:03:09   and that you could do two things with it.

01:03:12   You could do the 2X where you just kind of crop

01:03:14   to the center and there was the raw shooting.

01:03:17   And I will say about the 2X,

01:03:18   I really love that that feature is there.

01:03:20   And I know that you're losing performance

01:03:25   because it's not being able to do pixel binning anymore.

01:03:27   But Apple makes a point of saying

01:03:29   that it's actually the best.

01:03:30   If you do the math, you can see it

01:03:32   'cause of the sensor size.

01:03:33   It's actually the best 2X camera

01:03:34   that they've ever had in an iPhone.

01:03:36   Now, they're, you know, not all iPhones have 2X cameras.

01:03:39   So, you know, there's an asterisk there,

01:03:42   but it's giving the extra range of having the 2X mode

01:03:47   and having it not be a digital interpolation,

01:03:51   but it literally being the pixels on the sensor.

01:03:54   And it looks, it doesn't look as great

01:03:57   or perform as great as the binned pixels,

01:04:00   but it doesn't matter because it's the shot you wanted.

01:04:04   I think it's really good.

01:04:07   And that surprises me a little bit.

01:04:08   The one that really surprises me is that the people

01:04:12   like Sebastian de Vite, who does Halide,

01:04:14   and oh, what's his name now?

01:04:17   I can't remember.

01:04:18   You know, the guy that Apple always links to,

01:04:20   the Austin Mann. - Austin Mann.

01:04:21   - Right, like that's the thing that's interesting.

01:04:23   Austin Mann's really interesting 'cause they give him the,

01:04:26   I thought he gave a really measured review

01:04:28   and it's worth reading because he criticizes the things

01:04:31   that he doesn't think are that great about the camera,

01:04:33   which is not normally what you see in a thing

01:04:36   that Phil Schiller tweets out, right?

01:04:38   But they love that he's so enthusiastic about the cameras

01:04:41   and he does highlight what's great about them.

01:04:44   But what surprises me is that that 48 megapixel RAW,

01:04:49   I have seen all the people who are like

01:04:52   the really into it RAW shooting photographers

01:04:57   say it's amazing.

01:05:01   And I know that's a real niche,

01:05:02   But like, I thought they would look at that 48 megapixel ROM,

01:05:05   they'd be like, "Yeah, you know, it's okay."

01:05:09   I have, all I see about it is raves from people

01:05:13   who are blown away by the fact

01:05:15   that they can get that out of a camera.

01:05:17   And I've seen several different people say

01:05:20   that it's the best image they've ever gotten out of a phone.

01:05:23   And I'm gonna take them at their word, right?

01:05:25   Because it's not my bag to do that.

01:05:27   So I think that's really interesting.

01:05:29   And it's kind of funny that I expected it to be the reverse,

01:05:33   which is we'd all be like,

01:05:34   "Oh my God, the quad pixel binning,

01:05:36   "it like looks totally different.

01:05:38   "It's the, the performance is so great."

01:05:40   And then the raw people would be like,

01:05:42   "Yeah, you know, it's not as good as the,

01:05:45   "because, and that's not what's happened."

01:05:47   So I'm also keeping in mind coming from the mini,

01:05:51   which has a much less good camera experience already,

01:05:58   as opposed to coming from a 13 Pro,

01:06:00   but I've been really impressed with it.

01:06:02   I did some action mode shots today.

01:06:05   - Oh, I haven't played with that yet.

01:06:06   That's the stabilization thing, right?

01:06:07   - Yeah, yeah, it is, at least so far,

01:06:12   like it's kind of amazing, right?

01:06:15   Like I have used so many video cameras

01:06:19   with motion stabilization and also post production software

01:06:23   doing motion stabilization.

01:06:25   And you know, some of it looks bad and some of it looks okay.

01:06:30   The few action mode shots that I took today,

01:06:34   I felt like, I really did feel like I had suddenly

01:06:37   switched onto a gimbal or something.

01:06:40   Like it was very impressive.

01:06:42   So I'm looking forward to playing with that more.

01:06:45   - So I have been just taking a few side-by-side photos

01:06:50   with raw and I cannot believe the detail that this lens can give. So it's very easy, you

01:07:01   can go into the settings app and go to camera and you can turn on the ability to shoot in

01:07:06   raw and then you get a button on the top right hand corner of the camera app that says raw

01:07:11   on it and it's got a line through it when you're shooting normally and it's not when

01:07:16   you're shooting in raw and it turns off and if you're photographing styles, the photo

01:07:20   stars and it turns off all that live photos. So I've just been like sitting my phone in

01:07:24   a standard position, take a photo, turn on raw, take a photo, it takes a couple of seconds longer

01:07:29   and just zooming in on them I cannot believe how much detail like sharpness is there in the raw

01:07:37   photography. So I like to take pictures of lots of things like lots of people. I very specifically

01:07:44   love taking pictures when I'm traveling. I like to take pictures of buildings. It's just a thing

01:07:48   that I enjoy. I imagine now I'm looking forward to the Halide update when they

01:07:54   actually fully support it because I find Halide to be a really great app for it

01:07:58   can do a thing that I really actually very much like where it takes both

01:08:01   photos at once right so you take a picture and you get the the standard

01:08:07   Heath is it or is it Heeke HEIC which one is the image one is the image one's video

01:08:11   but the high efficiency codec one yeah it's the Heeke HEIC is the container

01:08:17   file that contains the image file that's a HEAF format. So it's both.

01:08:23   And it also spits out a raw image. At the moment they can't take, they haven't got

01:08:27   access to the full 48 because they haven't updated it, they haven't tested and updated

01:08:30   it, right? Because the phone's just come out. So it's been taken side by side. But I also

01:08:34   like to take my images and edit them. And do, raw is the best way to do that. I know

01:08:39   that, but I've just never really cared about it enough. But now I feel more inclined to

01:08:44   want to play with this because it feels like the benefit to me for taking an image in raw

01:08:51   here is I'll get additional detail in certain circumstances and I find that intriguing.

01:08:56   And what I like about Halide specifically is it will give me both if the raw image isn't

01:09:02   necessarily going to be that helpful to me, right?

01:09:05   Because it can also be more finicky, right?

01:09:08   So I, what I'll say is I thought there was going to be more of a difference in the standard

01:09:17   lens than there necessarily is, but there is actually an incredible amount of headroom

01:09:24   available and I'm very excited about that, I mean about playing around with that and

01:09:30   learning more about that so maybe I'll follow up on this in the future if I tinker around

01:09:34   for some more, but it is something at the moment I'm finding myself pretty excited about

01:09:39   to be honest.

01:09:40   - Yeah, I mean, I feel like with photos, it really does take time. You need to shoot a

01:09:44   bunch and I love listening to the people who live and die by iPhone photography because

01:09:49   they're the ones who notice those details and we should all be paying attention to what

01:09:55   they have to say. But like I said, I think the reports from the field are that that is

01:10:00   spectacular. If you're not one of those types of people, the improvements are going to be,

01:10:06   it sounds like, more subtle. And again, it's one of those things, though, that you're going

01:10:10   to get a new iPhone and it's going to have that. And whatever your iPhone you're coming

01:10:16   from, it's going to be that much more of an improvement if you're coming from a two-year-old

01:10:19   or three-year-old iPhone than from somebody like me or Myke who is comparing it to last

01:10:24   year's model.

01:10:25   yeah I'll put in the show a couple of links one is to something some images

01:10:33   that Sebastian do with he actually took the photos a posted on the halide

01:10:36   Twitter account yeah from San Francisco and there's that with the street sign

01:10:41   and the Sun in the background it's kind of a spectacular yeah yeah and then also

01:10:45   I'll put a link in the show notes to Tyler Stormans YouTube review I always

01:10:51   really appreciate Tyler's reviews because he kind of just looks at the

01:10:55   camera and really does a good job I think of showing these differences side by side

01:11:03   and explaining them in a way that I can understand.

01:11:06   So yeah, I'm excited about this overall.

01:11:09   I actually think this is a really great upgrade and it is weirdly seems like, as we mentioned

01:11:14   especially with live activities, a phone that's going to get better with age in the near future,

01:11:20   which is strange.

01:11:21   I just have one other note,

01:11:23   which is using this phone for a week

01:11:24   after using the iPhone mini for a year.

01:11:26   - Oh yeah, okay.

01:11:28   - Every time I pick it up, I think, did I make a mistake?

01:11:31   Is this the Pro Max?

01:11:33   It's not the Pro Max, but it feels so huge.

01:11:38   It just feels so huge.

01:11:41   It feels, you know, it's big when it's in my,

01:11:44   I carried it around, took pictures when I was doing curling

01:11:47   and I was like, oh, that phone is gigantic in my pocket.

01:11:51   And I look at it and I think like, again,

01:11:53   I always do a double take and I think,

01:11:55   is this the big phone?

01:11:56   Did I use the big phone by mistake?

01:11:58   The answer is no, it's not.

01:12:00   So that is really taken some getting used to.

01:12:02   I'm so used to the smaller phone,

01:12:05   but the ProMotion is really good.

01:12:07   Like again, I learned to live without it,

01:12:10   but when I see it, I think to myself,

01:12:12   oh, that's really nice.

01:12:14   So I'll give you that one.

01:12:16   But I'm missing the size of the mini.

01:12:20   Like I just, it's just really funny to have been so trained

01:12:25   on the smaller phone that now the smaller

01:12:28   of the two Pro phones feels enormous to me,

01:12:30   but that's where I am.

01:12:32   Oh, well.

01:12:33   - You gonna order one of these 14 Pros?

01:12:35   - No, no.

01:12:36   - You're gonna stay on them, eh?

01:12:37   - Yep.

01:12:39   Yep, when all is said and done,

01:12:41   that's my phone and that's fine.

01:12:44   But for now I'm gonna live with the Pro

01:12:48   while I'm writing the review and all that.

01:12:50   And that's a, and I'm liking it.

01:12:52   Like it's really good.

01:12:53   I just, I just, the, the size take just I'm taken aback by the size on a regular

01:12:59   basis.

01:13:00   It's just because it's so much larger than the mini.

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01:15:40   So you wanted to talk a little bit about upgrade cycles today.

01:15:43   - It's just a thought that I had of a little game we could play,

01:15:48   which is what do we recommend for people

01:15:53   and what do we do ourselves?

01:15:57   Because we've been talking a lot about,

01:15:59   "Oh, you don't upgrade every year.

01:16:01   You upgrade every two or three or four years."

01:16:03   And I was wondering if we might have our own recommendations for what we think that that

01:16:10   should be today.

01:16:14   How often should you be updating your items or separately from that, how often are we

01:16:19   updating the stuff that we buy?

01:16:22   Okay.

01:16:23   What I will say for me personally is rather than what I think people should be doing,

01:16:29   is what I would recommend people would do to have a good balance between a good experience

01:16:34   and not necessarily buying every single product.

01:16:38   Because "should" is difficult, especially with something like an iPhone, right?

01:16:42   Because how often should someone upgrade their iPhone?

01:16:46   Probably every five years, you know what I mean?

01:16:48   It's like, you're going to be fine for a really long time.

01:16:51   Like do you see what I'm saying there?

01:16:54   Like the "should" part is a little complicated.

01:16:57   because I mean our audience I'm sure is way over,

01:17:01   I know it to be pretty over indexed

01:17:05   to people that do upgrade their phones every year.

01:17:07   But I do really love this as a conversation.

01:17:09   Do you want me to start or should you start?

01:17:12   - Well, why don't you start with this?

01:17:14   Well, let's start with the iPhone.

01:17:15   - Okay.

01:17:17   I upgrade every year and did before and would anyway, right?

01:17:21   Irrespective of my job.

01:17:24   I would, because I was doing this every year.

01:17:27   I mean, I've had every iPhone except one, which is the 3GS.

01:17:30   And I honestly don't remember why I didn't upgrade to the 3GS, but I just didn't.

01:17:36   I think I was in a contract and at that time I was, I don't know, I was like 19.

01:17:41   I didn't have the money to do the upgrade.

01:17:45   I was, I don't believe, I don't know what was going on with me at the time, but I just didn't do it.

01:17:49   I should have probably hold it in 19.

01:17:51   I was in my twenties, whatever.

01:17:53   But I just, other than that, I do it.

01:17:55   So I would go every year.

01:17:57   Everybody else, I mean, every two years probably,

01:18:03   two to three years,

01:18:06   'cause you get on that like TikTok kind of schedule, right?

01:18:09   You know, if I look at the iPhone 14,

01:18:13   I would say the iPhone 13 was skippable,

01:18:16   but the iPhone 12, I think was great.

01:18:19   The iPhone 11, you know what?

01:18:22   So like, that's kind of how, if I think back,

01:18:24   I would say every two years

01:18:26   and you would get a more meaningful upgrade for sure.

01:18:31   So I would say two to three years.

01:18:33   - Personally, it's every two years, right?

01:18:36   I'll buy a new phone every two years

01:18:39   and we've generally been rolling those down in my family.

01:18:42   So we'll see how that goes.

01:18:44   I feel like the iPhone you could get away with at this point,

01:18:48   I feel like you could get away with three years.

01:18:51   - Yes, pretty easily.

01:18:53   So Jamie's got an iPhone 11.

01:18:56   She's gonna, she got it her freshman year,

01:18:58   she's gonna be a senior, right?

01:18:59   So three years.

01:19:01   And it's fine.

01:19:06   But I did have that, I had that thought today,

01:19:08   or this week, I've been thinking about that phone.

01:19:12   I thought like, "iPhone 11, how's that going for her?"

01:19:17   And then I had that moment where I realized,

01:19:18   well, she's gonna graduate from college in June.

01:19:22   So, you know, she'll get a new iPhone.

01:19:26   I'll get her a new iPhone for college

01:19:27   or for her birthday or something like that.

01:19:29   It's coming.

01:19:30   But I think at three years on from getting that iPhone--

01:19:34   - That's funny.

01:19:35   I thought you were gonna say,

01:19:36   which is where my mind went,

01:19:37   well, she can buy her own. - She can buy her own.

01:19:38   - She can buy her own. (laughs)

01:19:40   - No, no, I really,

01:19:43   so this is why I say three or four years,

01:19:45   'cause I feel like she's at three years

01:19:47   and it's like, you know, it's fine.

01:19:50   but it's at the edge and I feel like next year,

01:19:55   she probably should get another iPhone.

01:19:59   And again, like Myke said, so many caveats here.

01:20:02   Everybody's situation is different.

01:20:03   Everybody's priorities are different.

01:20:04   Everybody's budgets are different.

01:20:05   But if I'm like giving really broad advice to somebody

01:20:08   about like, how many, you know, is it okay?

01:20:12   Like if you had a friend who's like,

01:20:13   "Oh, I've had my iPhone two years, should I get a new one?

01:20:16   "Should I, or is it okay if I keep it another year?"

01:20:19   I would say you're fine.

01:20:21   And if they said three years, I'd say,

01:20:23   "Well, if you can eke another year out, do it.

01:20:26   "If you're feeling pain now, go ahead."

01:20:30   Which is why I come into that kind of three or four years.

01:20:32   And I also know that there are people out there,

01:20:34   and I have friends who have like five-year-old iPhones,

01:20:36   and like, great, great, good for you.

01:20:39   But that's when I start looking at the new stuff

01:20:41   compared to the old stuff and go,

01:20:42   "Mm, yeah, you're gonna get a lot out of..."

01:20:46   Barely it's like, you're gonna get a lot

01:20:48   out of this upgrade at this point. It's been a while for you. Apple Watch? Apple Watch.

01:20:55   Uh, I mean, for me, two to three years. Easy. Like I have no problem with that. I think

01:21:03   it actually works pretty great. Even for like someone who considers himself an enthusiast

01:21:08   like I do, I wouldn't recommend getting every Apple Watch. I don't think they do enough

01:21:14   to them, which I think is fine.

01:21:16   For everybody else, I'd say four years, probably.

01:21:20   - Yeah, I think you're right.

01:21:23   For me, it's three years or maybe two to three years.

01:21:28   I have not bought that many Apple Watches,

01:21:31   even though it's been out for seven and a half years.

01:21:35   I think I bought three.

01:21:36   And Lauren's on her second.

01:21:42   So you could take your time with the Apple Watch, it's fine.

01:21:47   And I would apply that to everybody else too.

01:21:50   I'd say you can, if you got a new Apple Watch

01:21:53   every three or four or maybe even longer years,

01:21:56   it's fine, right?

01:21:57   Because the pace is so slow.

01:21:58   And unless there's a new feature that you,

01:22:01   in fact, I'd say with the Apple Watch,

01:22:02   sometimes that's what it is.

01:22:03   It's like one year, there'll be your feature

01:22:06   and you'll be like, yeah, I'm updating.

01:22:08   And it's for that one feature.

01:22:10   And as long as that feature doesn't come,

01:22:12   you just don't worry about it

01:22:14   'cause your Apple Watch is doing just fine.

01:22:16   iPad.

01:22:20   - Oh.

01:22:21   (laughing)

01:22:23   - I also just, I simplified it and just said one iPad

01:22:26   for those who have many iPads.

01:22:28   I'm sort of pretend you have an iPad.

01:22:30   - For me?

01:22:34   - Yeah.

01:22:35   - Three years?

01:22:36   Two to three years, easy?

01:22:40   - Yeah.

01:22:40   I have been doing that.

01:22:42   I had been using an iPad very frequently.

01:22:45   Before my iPad mini, I was using my 2018 iPad Pro.

01:22:51   That's what I would take travelling with me and it was great.

01:22:55   So that was like a four year old iPad at that point.

01:22:58   And I forgot the age of it.

01:23:02   I mean, I would say three years is easy for me.

01:23:06   for me, for other people, like five, you know?

01:23:11   If you're using an iPad Pro,

01:23:14   you're in a different category, I reckon,

01:23:17   which is probably closer to me.

01:23:20   - I think that's one of the challenges.

01:23:21   Ironically, I think that if you've got an iPad Pro,

01:23:25   on one level, you can use those for years

01:23:28   because, like, functionally,

01:23:29   other than some of the feature changes,

01:23:32   like the 2018 iPad Pro is still,

01:23:36   pretty good. It doesn't, you know, it's not going to run Stage Manager or something, but

01:23:41   like it's still pretty fast, even 2018, right? So that's a four-year-old iPad Pro. It's pretty,

01:23:48   you know, it's still, I'm showing its age a little bit in terms of new features, but

01:23:52   still pretty good. It sort of depends, so not only it's like what model do you have

01:23:58   and what are you doing with it? I think that the iPads, I think that's one of the reasons

01:24:03   people were grumpy about the M1 requirement for stage manager was because those iPad Pros

01:24:08   tend to, you know, you can use them for a long time and they don't ever break a sweat.

01:24:14   It's very impressive. So I agree with you. I think I ended up buying an M1 iPad Pro and

01:24:23   I had previously bought the 2018, I think, so I only lasted whatever that is, two years.

01:24:31   But I think that for me, I use my iPad a lot, and yet I feel like every two or three years

01:24:38   is plenty.

01:24:40   And yeah, it's hard to make a generalization, but I feel like the iPad in some ways is even

01:24:45   longer a life object than an iPhone or an Apple Watch.

01:24:51   Because you're probably buying it, depending on what you use.

01:24:54   You buy a base model iPad or an iPad Air or an iPad Pro or an iPad Mini based on what

01:24:59   you're using it for.

01:25:00   And I think they're all pretty well matched then in saying you can probably hold on for

01:25:05   whatever level you're at, you could probably hold on to it for four years.

01:25:10   Easy.

01:25:11   And it'll be fine.

01:25:12   And again, the caveat is if there's that must-have feature, then you're prompted to upgrade.

01:25:17   But I feel like you can hang on to those for a long time.

01:25:22   And then the Mac.

01:25:24   I don't have a years for the Mac.

01:25:27   like when there's a design that speaks to you. It's kind of like my thing here.

01:25:35   The last few years have been complicated for me because there's been all this new stuff going on

01:25:44   including like here's a new iMac. Do you prefer this to your current one the way it looks and

01:25:49   acts? Yeah I do. Or like here's a new MacBook Pro and now here's a new MacBook Air. But like now

01:25:54   Now I've got these sorted, I don't envision making any change to my Macs for multiple

01:26:00   years now.

01:26:02   So for me it's either a design, and that design can be either visual or the overall hardware

01:26:09   design package, what it provides.

01:26:13   I think that's what it is, right?

01:26:16   I don't think that there is a necessary time limit that I think for me or that I would

01:26:21   recommend to other people. It's just kind of wait until there's a product that for

01:26:26   whatever reason you think feels better than yours but it's not on a cycle like

01:26:31   I don't think that there's really any need in going so like when they have an

01:26:36   M3 MacBook Air I have no desire to move to that product like same as when they

01:26:41   have an M2 Pro MacBook Pro I'm good like this I'm all set with this thing.

01:26:48   - Well, I was thinking about that I bought the iMac Pro

01:26:51   and then the Mac Studio.

01:26:53   And so that was not quite five years, but it was close.

01:26:57   And that's my workhorse on my desk.

01:26:59   And before I had the iMac Pro, I was using a 5K iMac.

01:27:04   And so that was 2014.

01:27:07   So that was about three years.

01:27:10   And you're right, some of that is just

01:27:12   what speaks to you when, but I went three years

01:27:15   and then five years with those desktops.

01:27:18   And the laptops are a little different.

01:27:19   You know, again, we hand things down in this house,

01:27:22   but it's the same sort of thing of,

01:27:27   every context is gonna be different.

01:27:30   But like, my son had a 2018 Air, 2017 Air,

01:27:35   and went to the 22 MacBook Pro,

01:27:41   and my wife had a 2018, I wanna say, or 17 Air,

01:27:45   and just got my M1.

01:27:47   and the fact that the M1 is still for sale.

01:27:48   Apple Silicon really changes the game too.

01:27:50   I feel like these Apple Silicon Macs

01:27:52   are gonna be great for a long time.

01:27:54   I really do.

01:27:56   They overshot by so much.

01:27:57   - Oh yeah.

01:27:58   (laughing)

01:27:59   Oh yeah.

01:28:00   Maybe the idea for everyone is like,

01:28:02   just run it until it causes you a problem

01:28:04   and then think about changing.

01:28:06   - I think that there's real truth to that.

01:28:08   And when a design speaks to you,

01:28:11   I think is a good phrase to round up

01:28:14   everything we've said here,

01:28:15   which is obviously maybe the number one reason,

01:28:18   I mean, number one reason you upgrade to a new device

01:28:21   is because your device died or is dying.

01:28:24   That happens or you broke it.

01:28:27   No judgment here though.

01:28:28   It just, it wasn't feeling well.

01:28:30   And so it had to go.

01:28:31   Number two is a something prompts you to upgrade, right?

01:28:38   Something in a product.

01:28:41   It's not the calendar flipping over, right?

01:28:44   It's something in a product that you go,

01:28:46   "Ooh, that is enough for me to go."

01:28:50   And then sometimes it's time,

01:28:52   which is sort of like, it's getting slow, it's getting old.

01:28:56   Maybe there's all these new features,

01:28:57   but it's like, okay, it's time.

01:28:59   And you're almost fortunate if you get to that point

01:29:01   where it hasn't fallen apart.

01:29:04   And I don't know, I just thought it was really interesting

01:29:10   'cause we talk about this a lot

01:29:12   and yet I never really kind of walked through it.

01:29:14   So I appreciate you walking through it with me,

01:29:16   this idea of what we do, and we are, you know,

01:29:18   we are in our unique cases of covering this

01:29:20   and talking about it.

01:29:22   And so we need to spend time with the new technology

01:29:24   and all of that.

01:29:26   Although there's also a truth about what we would do

01:29:28   regardless of whether we need it for our work or not,

01:29:31   doing a lot of things with computers right now.

01:29:33   So, but also sort of like,

01:29:35   when we talk about Apple's iteration process,

01:29:41   What do we think the pace is?

01:29:44   And I think that what we've said here is actually,

01:29:47   if you extrapolate kind of what we're saying the pace is

01:29:50   in terms of what,

01:29:51   like we obviously think the Apple Watch pace is less

01:29:56   and that the iPhone pace is a little bit more

01:29:59   and that the iPad pace is a little bit less.

01:30:01   And I think that's true.

01:30:02   And that the Mac pace is kind of all over the place

01:30:05   and also to be determined

01:30:07   because the Apple Silicon thing changes it.

01:30:09   But I think that that's part of this story too,

01:30:11   is like how long, it's not just about like,

01:30:13   how long can you hold onto it before it breaks?

01:30:15   It's also, how long can you hold onto it

01:30:17   until you look at what's current and say,

01:30:19   it's so much better that it's worth getting a new one.

01:30:22   And you know, not all of Apple's products work in lockstep.

01:30:26   It's not like Apple comes and says,

01:30:27   all right, 2018, clear them out.

01:30:29   Like that's not quite how they do it.

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01:32:33   It is time for some #AskUpgradeQuestions.

01:32:40   First one comes from Brans who says

01:32:42   Do you think Apple would bring the Dynamic Island to the non-pro models?

01:32:49   And if so, do you think Apple would bring those features to non-pro models

01:32:54   without also bringing the 120Hz display

01:32:58   or do you think it is required

01:33:00   for everything to work properly?

01:33:02   - I think it's inevitable that the dynamic island

01:33:06   will come to the rest of the iPhones.

01:33:08   - Yep.

01:33:09   - I don't think,

01:33:14   I think 120 Hertz is nice,

01:33:17   but I don't think it's required.

01:33:20   And I think it is a matter of sequencing.

01:33:25   I think it becomes a matter of what Apple wants to bring,

01:33:28   'Cause Apple, remember, Apple is really trying

01:33:30   to differentiate between the two models,

01:33:32   but it's got cameras and processors

01:33:35   and the Dynamic Island and ProMotion and Always On.

01:33:40   There's a lot differentiating these two.

01:33:43   So even if they pull a couple of them off the shelf

01:33:45   and push them down into the lower end phones,

01:33:48   there will still be plenty of differentiation.

01:33:51   So I think Dynamic Island is so fundamental,

01:33:57   a change to the interface that it has to come

01:34:02   to the other phones.

01:34:03   And so I think you need to look at the,

01:34:06   at face ID in the notch and see how it was not that long

01:34:10   after when they went everywhere, right?

01:34:13   Like when the XR came out, XR was an LCD,

01:34:17   not an OLED iPhone, but it had a notch and a face ID sensor.

01:34:22   So I think it's gonna be like that.

01:34:25   If not next year, then the year after,

01:34:27   but it might be as soon as next year that they do this.

01:34:30   'Cause remember, all they're really doing is a cutout

01:34:32   and the under glass proximity sensor

01:34:37   and then the software on top.

01:34:39   And if that's all that's required,

01:34:40   that's not hard for them to introduce.

01:34:44   - Yeah, I think Jaws said it was just as iconic

01:34:47   or it's iconic already, right?

01:34:50   This look. - Yeah, well, it's literally,

01:34:51   I mean, I mentioned this in a piece I wrote for Six Colors,

01:34:54   but literally, they used to have the silhouette

01:34:56   of the iPhone and it had the bars at top and bottom

01:34:58   and the circle at the bottom for the home button.

01:35:00   And then the iPhone 10 came out and it's like, no, no,

01:35:03   now this is the iPhone and it was with the notch.

01:35:06   And now they've got that same silhouette

01:35:09   with the dynamic island on it.

01:35:10   It's like, no, no, this is the iPhone now.

01:35:12   And it's like, that's how Apple thinks of these things

01:35:15   is like, what's the simplest way to express

01:35:18   what the iPhone looks like.

01:35:20   And it's now the dynamic island,

01:35:23   at least for these pro models.

01:35:24   but like it has to be as the home button vanishes

01:35:29   and the notch kind of gets pushed down,

01:35:32   the dynamic island starts to go everywhere.

01:35:36   - They're reporting a lot over the last couple of days,

01:35:38   but display analyst Ross Young has said that he thinks

01:35:42   that the island will be coming to other phones,

01:35:45   probably with the iPhone 15,

01:35:47   but not promotional always on.

01:35:49   So they're more likely to roll out to dynamic island

01:35:53   like this is, as you say, like the iconic thing.

01:35:56   This is the way it goes,

01:35:57   but it doesn't need to bring everything.

01:35:59   - ProMotion, always on,

01:36:00   and the dramatically improved cameras

01:36:05   are really easy to just leave in the pro line, right?

01:36:07   Those are really easy to leave there.

01:36:10   - Well, what about this then from Jay Ref who says,

01:36:12   "Do you think the dynamic island

01:36:14   "will show up on the iPad Pro?

01:36:16   "And if so, would it be on the short side or long side?"

01:36:19   - My answer is maybe.

01:36:22   If Apple thinks that the Dynamic Island or a version,

01:36:26   'cause we gotta say, or a version of it, right?

01:36:28   The idea of using the same information

01:36:31   that's coming out of the Live Activities API on iPadOS

01:36:34   to do a status thing somewhere,

01:36:36   maybe inspired by the Dynamic Island,

01:36:40   maybe like the Dynamic Island.

01:36:42   Yeah, I think that there's a strong possibility

01:36:46   that they'll do that because it shares a code base.

01:36:49   iPadOS shares a code base with iOS.

01:36:51   And if they feel like this is going really well

01:36:53   and the people sort of expect to have that information

01:36:56   that they would also build that in to the iPad.

01:36:59   Would it be on the short side or the long side?

01:37:01   My answer is yes, it'll be at the top

01:37:04   because the iPad doesn't need cutouts for sensors.

01:37:07   And I don't think it ever will.

01:37:09   And so I think that if they do bring something like this

01:37:11   to the iPad, it will just be software.

01:37:15   - Oh, you've just blown my mind there.

01:37:17   'Cause what I've been thinking of is like,

01:37:19   I don't imagine Apple changing the design of the iPad from what it is right now for

01:37:25   the far foreseeable future of there being a thin bezel that is uniform around the whole

01:37:31   device, right?

01:37:33   I can't imagine them making a really thin bezel on one side so they could put the Dynamic

01:37:38   Island in there and put the Face ID sensors in there because that doesn't make sense for

01:37:42   just how fundamentally the iPad works.

01:37:45   You just pick it up and it's already ready to go in whatever orientation you want and

01:37:48   the iPad does need bigger bezels so you can hold it more comfortably.

01:37:52   But if they did what you're suggesting of like they have just a pure software version

01:37:58   which shows the live activities and all that kind of stuff,

01:38:02   that would probably work pretty great.

01:38:05   Yeah.

01:38:06   Especially because you don't need to look at the dynamic island on the iPad

01:38:13   because like for face ID,

01:38:15   because the face ID works in all orientations,

01:38:17   et cetera, et cetera.

01:38:18   Yeah, that makes sense.

01:38:19   - Right.

01:38:20   And you know, they may do, if they do it,

01:38:22   it might be just an implementation of the dynamic island,

01:38:24   or it might be their unique iPad spin on it, right?

01:38:27   Where they're like, "Oh, but this is different."

01:38:28   And that you flip it down from the top of the screen,

01:38:31   or I don't know, right?

01:38:33   I don't know whether they, you know,

01:38:36   might have their own spin on it

01:38:37   or whether they'll keep it familiar.

01:38:39   But I think if they feel that it is successful

01:38:41   and that people like it,

01:38:42   and that they, like that live activities API

01:38:45   is really interesting.

01:38:46   On the iPad, when you've got that extra screen real estate,

01:38:49   how do you instantiate the information

01:38:53   about other activities that are going on,

01:38:55   especially if you're not in stage manager mode, right?

01:38:58   Maybe this is the way, maybe not.

01:39:03   Maybe it's something that's more like the menu bar, right?

01:39:05   Like I feel like the menu bar on the Mac

01:39:07   is what the dynamic island is more or less.

01:39:09   You can put stuff up in the menu bar

01:39:11   to tell you what's going on.

01:39:13   But the iPhone doesn't make sense.

01:39:15   Where's the iPad in all this?

01:39:16   Like, it doesn't have a menu bar,

01:39:18   but it's not so small as the iPhone

01:39:21   where it needs the Dynamic Island.

01:39:23   So what do they do?

01:39:24   It'll be interesting to see if they have a new take on it,

01:39:28   but I think they could,

01:39:29   if they really love the Dynamic Island,

01:39:30   they could just do it in software on the iPad

01:39:32   and it would be fine.

01:39:34   - If you would like to send in a question

01:39:36   for us to answer on a future episode of "Upgrade,"

01:39:38   just send in a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade

01:39:41   or use ?askupgrade in the Relay FM members Discord.

01:39:45   Please send in your questions.

01:39:46   Now that we're kind of at this stage of the year

01:39:49   and need new questions,

01:39:50   'cause some of the older questions that I haven't gotten to

01:39:52   are somehow--

01:39:53   - Out of date.

01:39:54   - Eclipsed by the fact that we have new information

01:39:57   like the phones and the OSs and stuff.

01:40:00   So if you have any questions for us,

01:40:01   please send them in #askupgrade on Twitter,

01:40:03   or ?askupgrade in the Relay FM members Discord,

01:40:06   which you get access to if you sign up for Upgrade Plus.

01:40:09   Go to getupgradeplus.com

01:40:10   and you'll get longer ad-free versions of this very show.

01:40:14   Thank you to everybody that has done that.

01:40:15   And a huge thank you to everybody

01:40:17   that has donated to St. Jude so far this year.

01:40:19   Please go to stjude.org/relay to learn more, donate now.

01:40:24   We appreciate it incredibly much.

01:40:26   And it really goes to all towards helping

01:40:29   cure childhood cancer, which who wouldn't want to do that.

01:40:33   If you would like to find us online in the meantime,

01:40:35   you can go to sixcolors.com and @jsnell on Twitter for Jason.

01:40:40   I am @imike, I am Y-K-E.

01:40:43   Thank you to DoorDash, Membr4, and Hover

01:40:46   for their support of this week's episode.

01:40:48   And we'll be back next time.

01:40:50   Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:40:52   - Goodbye, Myke Hurley.

01:40:54   (upbeat music)

01:40:56   [ Music ]