424: Das Pro Plus Max Ultra


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 424.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by TextExpander, Fitbod, Membifold, and Uni Pizza Ovens.

00:00:18   My name is Myke Harley and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hi Jason Snell.

00:00:22   Hi Myke Harley. I'm back at home.

00:00:24   Mm-hmm.

00:00:25   Not at Apple Park.

00:00:26   Not this time.

00:00:28   And you're not at home.

00:00:30   - I'm not at home, I'm in Memphis, Tennessee.

00:00:32   We'll talk about Wyatt a little bit.

00:00:34   I have a #SnellTalk question to kick the show off for you.

00:00:37   Comes from Aaron.

00:00:39   Aaron wants to know, Jason,

00:00:40   how do you feel about the movie Prometheus?

00:00:42   (laughing)

00:00:45   - Well, we know Scott Forstall didn't like it.

00:00:47   - Yeah, we spoke about this on Upgrade Plus last week.

00:00:51   - Yeah, at the California theater,

00:00:52   I overheard Scott Forstall right before he got fired.

00:00:57   I think he actually knew he was leaving at that point and was just kind of there on an

00:01:02   obligatory level. But anyway, I saw Prometheus in the theater and I thought it was okay.

00:01:08   I don't love, love, love it and I think that I have problems with it, but I feel like this

00:01:12   is one of those examples where like the prevailing wisdom, like the internet wisdom has turned

00:01:19   into this thing where they savage that movie and I don't think it's that bad. I actually

00:01:23   think it's okay. I think it's very ambitious and I think it's disappointing as an alien

00:01:29   movie, right? Which is what it actually is. And it's yeah, it's got some dumb stuff in

00:01:35   it, but I think it's got a lot of cool stuff in it too. It's got some perplexing things,

00:01:38   but like again, I thought I enjoyed it in the moment and I don't really understand the

00:01:43   negativity toward it because I think it's okay. But I think lots of people hate it.

00:01:48   Anyway, I disagreed in my own mind as I walked past Scott Forrestal and he said, "It sucked

00:01:53   because I thought to myself, hey, Apple executive, disagree.

00:01:58   But you know, then he wasn't an Apple executive.

00:02:00   He became a Broadway producer shortly thereafter.

00:02:02   - It always surprises me that he never went back to tech.

00:02:06   - I don't know.

00:02:07   Maybe he got enough money that he,

00:02:10   they paid him off to just go away.

00:02:12   Maybe so.

00:02:14   I don't know.

00:02:15   Second acts, this is a topic for another time,

00:02:16   but second acts of Apple execs like are not,

00:02:20   Apple execs don't generally do well after they leave Apple.

00:02:25   I think Apple is such a unique place.

00:02:27   - Including Steve Jobs.

00:02:28   - And if you try to import second act somewhere else,

00:02:33   you have a hard time.

00:02:36   Right, yeah, I mean, Steve Jobs had a hard time

00:02:39   and then he had to come back to Apple.

00:02:41   Ron Johnson had a really hard time at JCPenney.

00:02:47   The Rubenstein went to Palm.

00:02:50   Rubenstein did okay, right?

00:02:52   'Cause then he did the Android thing at Google.

00:02:54   Like Rubenstein did fine.

00:02:55   Yeah, well, no, I mean, he did okay,

00:02:56   but like it was never, I don't know.

00:02:58   I feel like it was never the same.

00:03:00   And that is, I think, the wise thing to do

00:03:04   is to either do the forestall

00:03:08   where you take your money and you go away,

00:03:09   or you do the Phil Schiller thing

00:03:12   where you ascend to a higher level and fade away.

00:03:16   - Or Johnny.

00:03:18   - Although my understanding is that Phil is,

00:03:21   Phil is still heavily involved in applicant planning.

00:03:23   Yeah, that's my understanding.

00:03:25   That's what he does now.

00:03:26   - Understanding.

00:03:27   If you would like to send in a #snowtalk question

00:03:30   of your own, you can just send one out with a tweet

00:03:33   with a #snowtalk, we use question marks now talk

00:03:35   in the Relay FM members Discord.

00:03:37   - Oh, I'm gonna, before we get into it,

00:03:39   I'm gonna say, you know what?

00:03:40   Tony Fidell might be your best example.

00:03:42   Thanks to Chris and the Discord for mentioning that.

00:03:45   Tony Fidel did a pretty good job, went out and did Nest

00:03:49   after doing the iPod.

00:03:51   So, all right.

00:03:52   That's the exception that proves the rule though.

00:03:54   Stop sending me exceptions though.

00:03:55   I don't need to hear them.

00:03:57   I'm just saying it's hard to adapt.

00:03:58   And I think they make enough money.

00:04:00   A lot of these executives make enough money at Apple

00:04:02   that maybe the best move is to just finance

00:04:06   a Broadway show instead.

00:04:08   - So I am in Memphis, Tennessee right now.

00:04:11   And there is a very good reason for that

00:04:12   because this coming Friday, so it's Friday,

00:04:15   September 16th from 12 to 8 p.m. Eastern time over at twitch.tv/relayfm

00:04:20   We are going to be streaming live the fourth annual podcastathon for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

00:04:27   As we continue to try and raise money and successfully raise money for St. Jude throughout this entire month

00:04:34   Let me take a look at our current total, Jason. We've just passed

00:04:37   $180,000 raised for the kids of St. Jude. We have a goal of

00:04:44   $4,840.18 this year. The reason that goal is so specific is because when we reach it as a community over the last four years

00:04:52   we will have raised two million dollars for the life-saving mission of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

00:05:00   which is finding cures and saving children for kids that are suffering with various forms of cancer and other life-threatening diseases.

00:05:07   St. Jude not only treats these kids

00:05:10   but it learns from the treatments that they create,

00:05:12   shares that information with the world.

00:05:14   It is a research hospital.

00:05:16   And treatments that have been created and found at St. Jude

00:05:19   have lowered the childhood cancer survival rate massively

00:05:24   in the time that they've been around.

00:05:26   So St. Jude is celebrating its 60th year this year,

00:05:30   and in that time, we've seen the childhood cancer

00:05:33   survival rate in the US go from one in five to four in five,

00:05:38   So it flipped around, which is just an incredible thing to see.

00:05:44   And it's because of the donations and the attention

00:05:49   of people like our Relay FM listeners, who

00:05:52   continue to donate every year.

00:05:54   But we need your donations to meet our goal.

00:05:56   And we have a goal, because it all

00:05:58   goes to an incredible place doing incredible things.

00:06:02   So we really want you to tune in for the Podcast-a-thon.

00:06:05   Jason's put together a wonderful game again this year,

00:06:08   which we'll be talking about.

00:06:09   Jason's gonna come on and talk about what he put together.

00:06:12   How did it go by the way?

00:06:14   I know you recorded this weekend.

00:06:15   - Went great.

00:06:16   We have a game show in the can.

00:06:18   There were winners, there were losers,

00:06:20   laughs were had, some surprising questions

00:06:22   with some surprising answers as was, I think intended.

00:06:26   - As is the way things tend to be.

00:06:28   - Yes.

00:06:29   - So yeah, we've got tons of fun stuff.

00:06:30   It's gonna be eight hours long.

00:06:32   We have all of our kind of the favorite things

00:06:34   that we've had over the last couple of years.

00:06:36   that me and Steven have gotten to experience

00:06:39   when we've been apart from each other

00:06:40   and we're bringing them back.

00:06:42   We've got tons of hijinks.

00:06:43   It's really gonna be a fantastic time.

00:06:45   I really hope that you'll be able to tune in.

00:06:47   So it's at twitch.tv/relayfm

00:06:49   from 12 to 8 p.m. US Eastern time.

00:06:52   It would really mean a lot to me

00:06:54   if our Relay FM listeners could come together,

00:06:58   spend some time with us on the stream,

00:07:00   donate some money to our incredible course here at St. Jude.

00:07:03   So if you wanna find out more about all of this,

00:07:05   find out more about how to donate and fundraise,

00:07:07   please go to stjude.org/relay

00:07:10   and we can work on this together.

00:07:12   Let's cure a child to cancer, right?

00:07:14   Isn't that the thing to do?

00:07:16   Doesn't everybody wanna do that?

00:07:17   So, if you tuned in.

00:07:20   We do have some items of follow up

00:07:24   that I wanted to talk about

00:07:25   because obviously, you know, we spoke,

00:07:28   it feels like forever ago to me now,

00:07:30   but we spoke after the event last week.

00:07:33   I really can't believe it's just been a week.

00:07:35   - Less than a week, just five days.

00:07:37   - But I wanted to see, did you order anything

00:07:39   in the meantime?

00:07:40   'Cause obviously pre-orders have gone up

00:07:41   and stuff like that since.

00:07:43   - Nothing for me personally,

00:07:45   but yes, I did do the pre-order thing,

00:07:47   loaded up in the Apple app, Apple Store app,

00:07:50   and then set my alarm for 5 a.m. and get up

00:07:53   and order my son's iPhone

00:07:56   because he's going off to college

00:07:57   and so he gets to not have a hand-me-down.

00:08:00   For the first time in his life,

00:08:01   he gets to not have a hand-me-down iPhone.

00:08:04   he is getting a iPhone 14,

00:08:08   midnight 128 gig

00:08:11   with the storm blue silicone case,

00:08:13   which of course will arrive today.

00:08:16   'Cause I told him this is a very important Apple tradition

00:08:20   that you get your case before you get your phone.

00:08:22   And that's it.

00:08:24   I've been toying with the idea of buying the new AirPods Pro

00:08:28   but I haven't pulled the trigger on that one yet.

00:08:31   - Oh, I did.

00:08:32   I also did the, 'cause they have a new thing

00:08:34   which I didn't know existed, maybe I missed it,

00:08:36   but I went through the ordering process for the AirPods Pro.

00:08:39   Miimoji engraving.

00:08:40   Obviously I did that.

00:08:44   So my AirPods Pro that I've ordered

00:08:46   will have my Miimoji on them,

00:08:49   which is just like, that seems fun.

00:08:50   I really like the engraving on the AirTags,

00:08:53   like they had the little emoji.

00:08:55   I just say it's kind of fascinating to me

00:08:57   that they can engrave Miimoji,

00:09:00   which are infinitely customizable characters.

00:09:06   The permutations of engraving the Memoji is huge,

00:09:10   but yet they still have a limited Emoji set

00:09:12   that you can choose from.

00:09:14   And I don't know -- why can't I just engrave any Emoji?

00:09:18   If they can get the Memoji part right.

00:09:21   Anyway, but I have a little mic Memoji on my AirPods.

00:09:27   I would say I ordered -- Steven ordered for me an iPhone

00:09:29   because we're picking up here in Memphis.

00:09:32   So I got iPhone 14 Pro Max in gold, 512 gigabyte again.

00:09:37   So I'm very excited about that, picking it up

00:09:39   on Friday morning.

00:09:40   So I'll have it.

00:09:41   We can maybe talk-- we'll probably touch on it,

00:09:43   talk about it a little bit during the podcast itself

00:09:45   on Friday, because I would have picked it up in the morning.

00:09:48   I'm intrigued to see how the eSIM process may work for me.

00:09:53   We'll find out if I'll be able to actually transfer

00:09:57   my phone to it.

00:09:58   - But you got the Pro Max, so it's got a SIM slot.

00:10:02   - The Pro Max has a SIM slot?

00:10:04   - I think the pros have SIM slots, don't they?

00:10:06   - No, I think none of them do.

00:10:07   - I thought it was just the 14s.

00:10:08   - No, I was checking that for me.

00:10:11   But I think they, for what I could see,

00:10:14   this all eSIM, they mentioned it during the 14 segment,

00:10:19   but--

00:10:19   - Oh, so they're just all in the US, no eSIM slot at all.

00:10:23   - No SIM cards at all.

00:10:25   - For anyone. - For anyone.

00:10:27   'cause they didn't mention it

00:10:28   during the Pro Max part of the keynote.

00:10:30   - But you're right, it's their Pro and Pro Max,

00:10:32   also not compatible with physical SIM cards.

00:10:34   Well, good luck, Myke.

00:10:35   - Yeah, my network supports eSIMS, so.

00:10:38   - Thank you for, yeah, right.

00:10:40   Thank you for calling AT&T, I guess, or something.

00:10:44   - Well, okay, so this is like a thing

00:10:46   that I will recommend people check out.

00:10:49   Apple have a support article about eSIMS,

00:10:51   and something I didn't know you could do

00:10:53   during these quick setup process,

00:10:55   or during the setup process,

00:10:56   you can transfer your current physical SIM card

00:11:00   in your old phone to become an eSIM.

00:11:03   I don't know how it works technically,

00:11:06   but there's like a path of like,

00:11:07   oh hey, you got your old phone,

00:11:09   you're now just gonna move everything,

00:11:10   including your SIM, to the new phone

00:11:13   and some carriers support this.

00:11:15   So I'll try that, my carrier apparently supports

00:11:17   this process in the UK, so I guess I'll give it a go.

00:11:23   I'll follow up next week, let you know how that went.

00:11:27   So yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

00:11:30   I'm very excited about the camera also,

00:11:34   as well as obviously Dynamic Island.

00:11:36   - Yeah, and see how Dynamic Island works in practice.

00:11:40   Although that's gonna be a process, right?

00:11:43   Because the Dynamic Island stuff will start small

00:11:47   and then at some point will grow.

00:11:49   And so it's actually a little bit like how we deal

00:11:51   with beta features in the summertime,

00:11:53   where you kind of have to wait for the apps to appear

00:11:57   to judge it.

00:11:58   And that's the same case with Dynamic Island

00:12:00   is like the APIs and all that,

00:12:02   like that's all gonna happen,

00:12:04   but it's gonna kind of happen slowly.

00:12:06   So even what we get at launch is not gonna be quite

00:12:09   what it'll be like a few months later, presumably.

00:12:12   So we'll have to keep an eye.

00:12:14   And yeah, I'm interested in looking at the camera stuff.

00:12:15   I've got all that on my list,

00:12:16   my review checklist for when I get phones

00:12:20   to give them all a spin.

00:12:22   But comparing the camera to the previous model cameras

00:12:26   is going to be really interesting.

00:12:28   This week's episode is brought to you in part by our friends

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00:14:34   I actually have some rumour round up for you Jason.

00:14:37   Oh really?

00:14:39   I really do. There's been some stuff flowing around and I thought, you know, it'd be good

00:14:43   to touch on. I've got a couple of things from Mengqi Guo and something from Mark Gurman too

00:14:48   today. So first off, Mengqi Guo is suggesting that Apple will continue to further separate

00:14:55   their various models of iPhone going forward. So now we have 14, 14 plus, 14 Pro, 14 Pro

00:15:04   Max, right? So you've got these kind of four brands. But there is a suggestion that Mark

00:15:10   German also makes that Apple may bring the Ultra name to the iPhone in the future, maybe

00:15:17   for, you would naturally assume, replacing the Pro Max. So we would have iPhone, iPhone

00:15:22   Plus, iPhone Pro, iPhone Ultra.

00:15:25   Yeah, I mean, first off, Pro Max is a terrible name.

00:15:29   Yes.

00:15:30   Ultra is a better name than Pro Max.

00:15:31   Way better.

00:15:32   Just fundamentally.

00:15:33   Mm-hmm.

00:15:34   I do think that it implies feature disparity

00:15:39   between the Pro and what is now the Pro Max,

00:15:42   which I think is fine, right?

00:15:44   They've done that occasionally where it's like,

00:15:46   oh, this is a bigger zoom or whatever.

00:15:48   But I think having a much larger phone

00:15:51   and embracing the fact that it can get some features

00:15:53   that don't go in the Pro and that they can have it be that,

00:15:57   you know, it's bigger and better on top of the Pro.

00:16:00   I like that idea.

00:16:02   and I actually think it's less confusing, believe it or not,

00:16:06   to have the Pro Max, I think the names Pro and Pro Max,

00:16:11   not only do I not like Pro Max, but like Pro and Pro Max,

00:16:13   there's almost an implication

00:16:14   that they're the same phone, right?

00:16:15   Just like the iPhone and iPhone Plus.

00:16:19   And they're not always, right?

00:16:20   Occasionally the big phone is different.

00:16:22   This was true back in the Plus phone days too.

00:16:25   So if you look at the Apple Watch

00:16:27   and you see Ultra Apple Watch,

00:16:30   I feel like it maybe makes it a little clearer

00:16:33   that this is not the same feature set as the Pro.

00:16:36   It's got some other stuff going on.

00:16:38   And if they want to go there, I mean, obviously

00:16:40   it's going to push some people up to buy that phone

00:16:43   because it's got the best features.

00:16:45   I think that's already been the case,

00:16:46   but to make it clearer and to get rid of the name,

00:16:48   Pro Max, like, well, I'll sign off on the elimination

00:16:52   of the name Pro Max at pretty much regardless.

00:16:55   They could call it the iPhone cupcake

00:16:58   and I would be like, great, love it.

00:17:00   Let's do it.

00:17:00   - Yeah, it's not a good name.

00:17:02   It doesn't sound good to say.

00:17:03   It's like confusing.

00:17:05   And yeah, it's not something that I enjoy.

00:17:08   And this will obviously as well, like to mention,

00:17:10   this is what Samsung did, you know?

00:17:13   So Samsung, they split up their product line

00:17:16   a little bit more and introduced the Ultra,

00:17:18   which is effectively just like,

00:17:19   here is a really expensive phone

00:17:21   that has a bunch of high-end and/or niche features.

00:17:25   And at some point, these will come to the other phones.

00:17:28   and they continue to do this now,

00:17:30   so they have the ultra line of the S20 or the S line,

00:17:33   and then they have an ultra.

00:17:34   And I could imagine,

00:17:36   you remember we spoken about that periscope camera?

00:17:39   - Yeah.

00:17:40   - I could imagine that in its first iteration

00:17:42   potentially being just on the max phone,

00:17:44   on the biggest phone. - Exactly.

00:17:45   - Because the more space you have, the better.

00:17:48   - That's it, right?

00:17:50   And I think that that is,

00:17:51   I mean, it allows them to not just have it be about space,

00:17:53   it allows them to say like, we put the finest whatever,

00:17:56   maybe that's the titanium ring and it has different look

00:18:00   and it allows them to build something that is aspirational

00:18:04   and is like, well, I must have the best,

00:18:07   so I must have the ultra

00:18:08   and it drives up their selling price.

00:18:10   But also it has some good, like, it lets them,

00:18:16   okay, look at it this way.

00:18:18   If the Pro Max is always a hundred dollars above the Pro,

00:18:21   we've got a feature that we wanna put in our iPhones,

00:18:25   but it costs too much and it cuts our margins.

00:18:28   And so we don't wanna do it.

00:18:30   So we're gonna leave it out.

00:18:31   Well, having the Ultra phone makes it a lot easier

00:18:33   for Apple to say, yeah, we'll put it in the Ultra.

00:18:35   And it'll cost more because the Ultra costs more,

00:18:38   but the people who get it will love it

00:18:41   and we'll figure out how to make it cheaper

00:18:43   and it'll move down through the price categories.

00:18:45   And I'm probably never gonna be the person

00:18:48   who buys an iPhone Ultra,

00:18:50   but I like the idea of them starting there

00:18:53   because I do think that there are features

00:18:54   that Apple holds a year or more

00:18:58   because they just can't make them fit inside the price line.

00:19:02   They've got their prices and they've got their margins.

00:19:05   And you could say, well, they can cut their margins.

00:19:07   Like, well, they do a little bit at the start

00:19:09   and then it picks up, but that's Apple's game

00:19:10   is the margins are part of it.

00:19:12   And they've got some rules that they've laid down saying,

00:19:14   here's the prices, here's the margins, what can we make?

00:19:16   And if you make an ultra phone,

00:19:19   you've got more room to put more expensive components

00:19:22   in there, plus you've got more space.

00:19:24   - Hmm, yeah.

00:19:26   - Oh, interesting.

00:19:27   Oh, Myke, you're seeing the money fly out of your wallet,

00:19:30   aren't you?

00:19:31   - I don't even want to think about it.

00:19:32   I mean, like, I'm already in, you know?

00:19:34   Like, I'm in.

00:19:35   I'm always gonna get the big one, 'cause I like it.

00:19:37   And to me, I always would like the biggest phone

00:19:42   to have more stuff, because I'm paying more money for it.

00:19:45   You know, like, I feel like this is how it has been

00:19:48   in the past, I think it makes sense.

00:19:50   And I know it's gonna bug people

00:19:52   who don't want the big phone, but...

00:19:54   you know, this is, I think it makes sense.

00:19:58   The one you can charge the most for,

00:19:59   put the edge case features into,

00:20:01   and eventually they'll filter down to the rest of the line.

00:20:04   Plus, just as we talk about,

00:20:05   and as we spoke about at the beginning of this conversation,

00:20:08   I just like the cleanness of the branding.

00:20:10   That each of the four phones has its own name.

00:20:14   I just find that to be so clean.

00:20:17   - Or lack of name in the case of the base model, but yeah.

00:20:19   - But that's the name, the name is iPhone, right?

00:20:21   And like I'm fine with that,

00:20:22   'cause it'd be like iPhone 15,

00:20:23   It's iPhone 15, iPhone 15 Plus, iPhone 15 Pro, iPhone 15 Ultra.

00:20:28   And it's just like, then we can just call them the 15,

00:20:31   the Plus, the Pro, and the Ultra.

00:20:32   And I just, as a professional technology communicator,

00:20:37   I like it when it's easy.

00:20:38   - Yes. - You know?

00:20:39   - iPhone 14 Pro Max is way too many things, right?

00:20:44   - Yeah. - Too many things.

00:20:46   - They could just get rid of,

00:20:47   they just call it Max if they want to,

00:20:48   you know what I mean?

00:20:49   But like, there's no point in needing two names.

00:20:51   It doesn't need two names.

00:20:52   It never did, it's never made sense.

00:20:54   - They could call it Max, but Ultra is a cool,

00:20:57   they obviously like Ultra for the watch.

00:20:59   So it's, I think they don't always do it this way,

00:21:01   but I think it's always useful to look

00:21:03   at all of Apple's products and say,

00:21:04   what names are in sort of in favor,

00:21:07   not in fashion, in favor, and what's in the lexicon?

00:21:11   What are the words that they've used before?

00:21:13   And Ultra is not a new name, right?

00:21:14   Because they used it for the M1 Ultra.

00:21:17   So Ultra is obviously in their vocabulary

00:21:20   and is a recent addition, which means it's in favor.

00:21:23   And they liked it enough to then use it on the Apple Watch.

00:21:27   So I think it's logical that they might go there.

00:21:30   And yeah, it's simpler.

00:21:34   And gives them the ability to say,

00:21:37   "Here's a spread of products," in a way.

00:21:39   So, you know, I'm fine with it.

00:21:41   - Yeah.

00:21:42   They have a lot of names in the hopper right now, right?

00:21:45   - Maybe a little too many.

00:21:46   - They have Studio, they have Ultra,

00:21:49   They have Pro, we have, what else we got?

00:21:53   Max. - Max.

00:21:55   - And probably Extreme, right?

00:21:57   That was the-- - Or something.

00:22:00   - I've made that joke once,

00:22:01   Mark Gorman's called it that too, so who knows, right?

00:22:03   But like, there is going to be some kind of name

00:22:07   for the biggest chip that goes in the Mac Pro.

00:22:10   - I have a theory about that.

00:22:14   That one of the things that they might do,

00:22:15   it's a half-formed theory,

00:22:17   But one of the things they might do is redefine that

00:22:19   as the high end and not have as many variations in chips,

00:22:23   have it be basically M2, M2 Pro, M2 Max, M2 Ultra,

00:22:28   and that's it.

00:22:31   - And that one becomes the Ultra

00:22:32   and then everything else slows down a little bit?

00:22:35   - That one is the Ultra.

00:22:36   And it could even be that that's the Ultra

00:22:38   and the rumors for the,

00:22:40   we're not gonna get deep down into Max stuff today,

00:22:42   but the rumors for that are that that's like an M1 Ultra,

00:22:45   except there's two of them.

00:22:46   So you could even offer M1 Ultra or two M1 Ultras

00:22:50   or whatever, like you could call it the same thing.

00:22:52   But you could simplify that a little bit

00:22:55   by not adding another item in there, if you didn't want to.

00:22:58   - Yeah, I think it would be also a lot

00:23:02   to have five Mac chips, that's five.

00:23:05   You know, like we're good with four.

00:23:07   Four is enough. - How many Macs even are there

00:23:08   to have all those chips?

00:23:09   I mean, you could get rid of the name Macs too.

00:23:12   Get rid of the name Macs in a chip for Macs, please, please.

00:23:16   I mean especially too right when there's also we're gonna keep making products that have

00:23:24   different model number years simultaneously which they're gonna keep doing right.

00:23:28   So you've got if you add five M2 chips and five M1 chips this is like this is a lot of

00:23:34   chips that we're potentially selling here.

00:23:38   Mark Gurman says that Apple is still working on their iPhone subscription service.

00:23:43   could still come later this year or early next year. Mark Gurman suggests that they

00:23:48   did not want to push to have this ready now so as not to confuse day one purchases. Mac

00:23:54   Rumors suggests that they would want to have this unveiled at an October event. As a reminder,

00:24:00   if you like what does this mean? This is from Mark Gurman's previously reported news on

00:24:06   this.

00:24:07   The program would differ from an installment program in that the monthly charge wouldn't

00:24:11   be the price of the device split across 12 or 24 months. Rather it would be a yet to

00:24:15   determine monthly fee depending on the device that the user chooses. So you may say for

00:24:21   example pay $25 a month every month forever for an iPhone. Like that's just going to be

00:24:26   something you do. It's not financing, it's a subscription.

00:24:29   Right. And you would turn in your old one and get the new one and it wouldn't be one

00:24:34   of those things where you pay off your loan etc. etc. It would literally be, they would

00:24:39   say you know now it's time for you to get your new iPhone and return that one and continue

00:24:43   to pay or get a new model and pay a little more but it's that it's just it's just a rental

00:24:49   basically yeah and you know probably there's a version of it that includes apple one or

00:24:55   whatever I had a couple of questions on this rumor so Mark Gurman so he suggested that

00:25:00   they didn't want to have it didn't want to have it like to go now because it could confuse

00:25:04   things but I think like how would it be different to any other year right like

00:25:09   if they had if they unveil at the end of this year come next year on day one

00:25:14   sales like it's still gonna be there as a thing to be more complicated I think

00:25:18   the idea is if you launch this after the spike of iPhone purchases you get a you

00:25:23   get a runway you know you get nine months where the iPhone purchases are

00:25:27   lower than they are on day one to shake out the program before that day comes

00:25:32   comes, where the new iPhones come out, and you have to deal with this at a high level.

00:25:38   I think that would be the rationale. Because there aren't as many people buying iPhones.

00:25:43   There are people still buying iPhones all the year, but there's a big spike when the

00:25:45   new ones come out. So if you miss the spike, go right after the spike, roll this thing

00:25:50   out, you get all of that kind of runway in order to shake out your program before you

00:25:55   get the spike again, because the spike's going to be painful, as spikes usually are, and

00:26:02   you get to work out the bugs.

00:26:03   I think that that may be the idea there.

00:26:06   - Yeah. - Right?

00:26:07   'Cause imagine launching a brand new program

00:26:08   that you've never done before on, with peak iPhone.

00:26:11   It's like, oh no, no, no, no, no.

00:26:13   Like work up to that.

00:26:14   You give yourself some time to figure out all the details.

00:26:19   - And I guess, you know, as with all of these things,

00:26:22   you don't know exactly what is going to confuse people

00:26:26   until it's available, right?

00:26:28   Like that you could realize, oh, there's this thing

00:26:32   we can maybe streamline this part of the process and it would be easier for people to understand

00:26:36   how to do it. The other thing though that was weird to me is if they did announce it

00:26:40   this year, I think it is a bit like if they said they did announce it at the October event

00:26:44   say, people just bought all their iPhones. It would make more sense to me to do this

00:26:51   like in the spring or something like that.

00:26:53   So, I think if I'm the advocate for this program inside, what I would say is I really would

00:26:58   like this up for the holiday.

00:26:59   - Right, yep, yep.

00:27:03   - You know, although the counter argument would probably be,

00:27:05   yeah, but this is a subscription.

00:27:07   You're gonna give somebody a subscription for their,

00:27:09   that's a terrible present, what are you doing?

00:27:11   But I don't know, I don't know, you're right.

00:27:13   It is, it's weird, right?

00:27:15   'Cause you're gonna miss the spike

00:27:18   of really enthusiastic people, but what you're gonna do?

00:27:22   But yeah, you're right, you could delay it a little bit.

00:27:24   People are still gonna be like,

00:27:25   oh, well, I just bought my iPhone.

00:27:27   but it's like, "We'll get you next time."

00:27:30   Or they have a buy-in kind of, right?

00:27:32   They'll be like, "Well, yeah, but you'll trade that one in

00:27:34   "and then go on this plan.

00:27:35   "And then you'll have the money that we traded you in for

00:27:40   "applied to the plan.

00:27:43   "And now you're on the plan and it runs until September

00:27:47   "and then you get the new phone

00:27:48   "and then it all works out," or something like that.

00:27:51   I don't know.

00:27:52   It's tricky.

00:27:53   - Yep.

00:27:54   And Ming-Chi Kuo is reporting today

00:27:56   that the iPhone 14 and 14 Plus are currently seeing slower pre-order sales

00:28:01   than the 13 and 13 mini, but the Pro and Pro Max are selling better than

00:28:06   their predecessors.

00:28:06   Now, the thing about this is this isn't really actually like information

00:28:11   information, like so Quo is like looking, he's like talking to people he knows

00:28:15   and looking at the way that orders are shaking out right now, like from the

00:28:18   stores, he, no one actually really knows this information, but let's just

00:28:22   assume that this is correct.

00:28:24   It's interesting, but wouldn't Apple's ideal always be

00:28:29   sell more of the most expensive ones?

00:28:32   - Yeah, I think the question is, so yes, right?

00:28:35   Like it shows that the mix,

00:28:36   what do they say in the calls, favorable mix?

00:28:40   Having the more expensive products

00:28:42   be the ones that are selling better is good for Apple.

00:28:45   And it might say something about the appeal of the camera

00:28:48   and the dynamic island that they're peeling more people off

00:28:52   of the lower end product.

00:28:54   because the higher end product is so much more high end

00:28:57   than it used to be, right?

00:28:58   'Cause it's got the faster chip

00:29:00   and it's got the better camera

00:29:02   and it's got the dynamic island

00:29:03   and it's got like, it's like, oh,

00:29:04   and it's like always on screen.

00:29:06   So it's like, oh, so many things in there.

00:29:08   And so you tip over into,

00:29:09   I guess I'll get the pro instead of the non-pro.

00:29:12   The other way to look at it

00:29:15   is that the lower end model,

00:29:19   not getting a chip update

00:29:20   and missing a bunch of other features

00:29:22   and being kind of a less exciting update

00:29:25   means that while the pro buyers are very happy

00:29:28   to buy the 14 Pro,

00:29:31   the people who are not pro buyers

00:29:33   are looking at the 14 and are unmoved.

00:29:37   And so that's the question, right?

00:29:39   Does this little data point mean

00:29:42   that people have shifted to the Pro and Pro Max,

00:29:45   or does it just mean that a bunch of people

00:29:46   also just dropped out of the low-end phones?

00:29:49   And that was always Apple's gamble with this.

00:29:53   I mean, we talked about it last week

00:29:54   and I keep laughing at the moxie of them

00:29:56   to sort of claim retroactively

00:29:59   that their strategy going forward

00:30:01   was their strategy last year of having the lower end model.

00:30:05   But this is the year where they have to grit their teeth

00:30:07   and use very specific language to not talk about

00:30:11   why they're using the exact same chip with one more GPU

00:30:15   as they did last year.

00:30:17   But going forward, these phones will move in lockstep

00:30:20   and they'll both get an upgrade from the previous year.

00:30:24   But this year, they didn't.

00:30:26   And so it's a risk that they're taking

00:30:29   that that iPhone 14 doesn't appeal.

00:30:32   That said, again, most people who buy iPhones

00:30:35   are not buying on a one-year cycle.

00:30:37   They're buying on a two or three or four-year cycle,

00:30:40   at which point the 14 is the latest model

00:30:42   and it is a big upgrade from the 10 or 10S.

00:30:47   or 11.

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00:33:02   So it's been a busy week. There's been a lot going on. There are a couple of things that

00:33:07   I wanted to touch on that I thought were interesting,

00:33:10   you know, like little tidbits of information.

00:33:13   And then I think that we have a couple of bigger topics

00:33:15   that we wanted to talk about in reflection

00:33:18   since the event last week.

00:33:20   So one of these was,

00:33:22   I wished that the phones would get the new GPS technology

00:33:27   that's in the Ultra Watch.

00:33:30   So this is like a dual frequency GPS,

00:33:33   which means it can operate better

00:33:35   in cities of tall buildings.

00:33:37   Turns out the pro phones are getting that feature.

00:33:40   So I'm really excited about this.

00:33:42   We had a short layover in Chicago for various reasons

00:33:47   that I can't get into at the moment,

00:33:48   but we'll do at some point in the future.

00:33:50   And it's like a whole thing.

00:33:54   - Strange detail there.

00:33:57   - I'll tell you about it later.

00:33:58   I feel I really wish I wouldn't have said it.

00:33:59   Nevertheless, so we're in Chicago.

00:34:01   Chicago is a city with tons of skyscrapers.

00:34:04   And we were just trying to get from our hotel

00:34:06   to a restaurant and we ended up getting turned around a bit

00:34:11   'cause the GPS just struggled.

00:34:13   And I was like, oh man, I cannot wait to have this feature.

00:34:16   'Cause I live in London, so I'm frequently in the city.

00:34:19   And it's GPS just gets very confused.

00:34:22   And so I love the idea of having a better thing here.

00:34:25   - Yeah, well, and I mean,

00:34:26   the fact that Apple tried to solve this with like,

00:34:29   hold your camera up and it'll try to figure out

00:34:31   by matching the buildings where you are, it's like, woo!

00:34:34   or you could use this new GPS frequency

00:34:38   and that is hopefully less interfered with.

00:34:40   And that's great, I'm glad that they're doing this.

00:34:42   A question I have that is about the phone

00:34:46   and the watch really is they talked about

00:34:50   having a hard time acquiring signal also

00:34:53   when you're out in the middle of nowhere.

00:34:56   And I know there was a lot of misunderstanding.

00:34:58   I can't believe I'm breaking the seal on this again,

00:35:00   but there was this.

00:35:01   So when the iPhone got GPS in the first place,

00:35:03   which was a long time ago.

00:35:05   People kept saying it was a GPS, which is assisted GPS,

00:35:09   which it is.

00:35:10   And people were saying, well, what that means is,

00:35:13   you, it's not real GPS, it's fake GPS,

00:35:17   it comes from the cell tower.

00:35:18   Which is not true, the way assisted GPS works,

00:35:21   if anybody has ever used a standalone GPS

00:35:23   that has no data connectivity whatsoever,

00:35:26   one of the challenges with it is,

00:35:28   it doesn't know where it is in the world,

00:35:30   and so it has to sit there and triangulate

00:35:31   among GPS satellites until it knows where it is in the world.

00:35:34   And it's gotta go from anywhere to a very specific place.

00:35:38   And assisted GPS is great

00:35:39   because the cell tower knows exactly where it is.

00:35:41   And so it can look at the cell towers it sees,

00:35:43   it knows vaguely where it is,

00:35:45   and that's good enough

00:35:46   that it can get a GPS lock almost instantaneously

00:35:49   because it's not looking in the whole world.

00:35:51   It's looking in a very specific place.

00:35:53   It's very clever.

00:35:54   But you don't need the cell towers.

00:35:56   If you're out of range, it will figure out where you are.

00:36:00   So my question is, especially for the ultra watch,

00:36:03   but it's also true for the iPhone,

00:36:05   is this new, and I don't know the answer,

00:36:08   but is this new GPS frequency,

00:36:10   is it also helpful in getting GPS lock on faster

00:36:13   if you're not near a cell tower?

00:36:15   And I don't know the answer to that one.

00:36:18   - I mean, I could say it's probably not gonna do us.

00:36:20   - I would think this is the new frequency

00:36:25   and maybe it's better at that.

00:36:27   But yeah, it's either way, I love it because old GPS,

00:36:32   it's funny how we've come to rely on GPS too.

00:36:34   That's a thing that in 20 years has just completely

00:36:36   - Massive. - changed in the world.

00:36:38   So better GPS and they list all the different GPS networks

00:36:43   that it's capable of looking at too.

00:36:45   And there are like five of them

00:36:47   because there's some Western ones

00:36:49   and there's also like the Russian one and the Chinese one.

00:36:52   And it's like, it's good, it's good.

00:36:56   As reported by Stephen Aquino,

00:36:58   the iPhone now has a boot up chime.

00:37:00   - Yep, it's optional.

00:37:02   - Yep, sounds good though.

00:37:03   - But, and Stephen Aquino, accessibility advocate,

00:37:06   yeah, it's a fun idea.

00:37:08   And also if you're somebody who can't see the boot screen

00:37:10   for accessibility purposes. - How would you know

00:37:12   your phone's rebooted, right?

00:37:13   - And I gotta tell you, I mean,

00:37:15   all of us have dealt with this on iOS devices, right?

00:37:17   It's like, is it off yet?

00:37:18   Can I turn it back on?

00:37:19   Especially if you're trying to shut it down

00:37:20   and then reboot it.

00:37:21   Like, is it gone yet?

00:37:23   Is it on now?

00:37:25   So having a little audio note to say,

00:37:28   okay, I'm shutting down or I'm awake, I'm back,

00:37:31   is, it's cool.

00:37:33   That's a cute little sound.

00:37:34   - Yeah, I mean, it's just a fun thing to add.

00:37:36   And if it helps people in these situations,

00:37:39   like fantastic, right?

00:37:40   Like this wins all around.

00:37:42   This one was weird to me.

00:37:44   The Nike watch faces are now a part of watchOS 9.

00:37:48   They are not exclusive to Nike watch models anymore.

00:37:51   - I got one on my watch right now.

00:37:53   I don't understand why they've done this.

00:37:55   I don't get it.

00:37:57   Like, I can't get the Hermes one.

00:38:00   I think Nike...

00:38:02   I don't know. I think maybe Nike is just...

00:38:06   likes... if you want a brand with Nike on regular Apple watches.

00:38:10   Good follow-up from Zach. They don't do Nike watch models anymore.

00:38:13   That would be why.

00:38:14   So there you go. That's the answer.

00:38:15   -Solved. -I didn't know that.

00:38:16   All watches are Nike watches now.

00:38:19   And they have Nike bands.

00:38:20   They do Nike bands, but they don't do a Nike watch.

00:38:23   Interesting, I've missed that.

00:38:24   I mean, that makes sense actually.

00:38:26   I think that makes sense.

00:38:27   Just sell the bands, have the watch faces.

00:38:30   You don't need to do a Nike watch anymore.

00:38:32   Well, that would explain it,

00:38:33   but it is still interesting, right?

00:38:35   Now you can just get them all.

00:38:36   Like, why not go for it?

00:38:38   As we're recording today, like iOS, watchOS isn't out yet,

00:38:41   I don't think.

00:38:42   It'll be coming out at some point soon.

00:38:43   I think probably before we end up

00:38:44   finish our recording today,

00:38:45   I'm really looking forward to the Metropolitan watch face

00:38:49   in watchOS 9.

00:38:50   It looks so good.

00:38:51   I'm really excited about it.

00:38:53   I haven't said this anywhere, but I'll say it here.

00:38:55   I'm really disappointed in the upgrade they did

00:38:57   to the utility face, which is one of my favorite faces.

00:39:01   Because what they didn't do is add all the complications

00:39:05   that are available on other faces.

00:39:08   'Cause the California face can be made to look a lot

00:39:10   like the utility face, but it's not quite as good.

00:39:13   And they've added some modern complications.

00:39:15   It's basically, you can't put one on the top of the circle

00:39:19   like you can in California.

00:39:21   And on the bottom, it's got one long circular,

00:39:25   partial arc of a complication

00:39:27   instead of the two corner complications.

00:39:28   And it's just, it's too bad.

00:39:30   They like, they updated it, but only a little bit.

00:39:33   It's better than it was,

00:39:34   but I think I'm gonna end up sadly,

00:39:36   continuing to use California with my,

00:39:41   to make it look as much like the other one as possible

00:39:43   because they really didn't do a good enough job with utility.

00:39:46   So I'm bummed out by that.

00:39:47   But I do have a Nike face now, and that was fun.

00:39:49   Although when I added the Nike face, I think it crashed.

00:39:54   And so I ended up with, my watch face was blank.

00:39:58   I could use, I could press the side button

00:40:01   and like use apps.

00:40:02   But when I went back to the watch face,

00:40:04   it was just nothingness until I rebooted.

00:40:06   Then it was fine.

00:40:07   - They wanted you to just do it, you know?

00:40:09   - I just rebooted, yeah.

00:40:12   - Just rebooted.

00:40:13   (laughing)

00:40:14   - Yep.

00:40:15   - The Apple Watch Ultra is shipping

00:40:18   of a braided Apple Watch cable.

00:40:20   I just want Apple to do all braided cables.

00:40:23   I love the braided cables.

00:40:24   I just do all braided cables now, please?

00:40:27   No more plastic.

00:40:27   - I think that's where they're going.

00:40:30   That's where they're going, right?

00:40:30   - I hope so.

00:40:31   - I think it's only a matter of time.

00:40:32   Everything is slowly creeping toward braided cables.

00:40:35   I'm sure that they'll get there eventually.

00:40:37   - Especially now they don't include the chargers, right?

00:40:40   So like, give me a good cable

00:40:42   if you're not gonna give it the brick.

00:40:44   That's what I think.

00:40:45   - Except in Brazil, I guess.

00:40:47   Hi Brazil.

00:40:48   Yeah, I think that it's a trend.

00:40:52   I think they will eventually get there with every product.

00:40:54   Honestly, it feels so much nicer

00:40:58   that it gives it that high-end feel.

00:41:00   I can't imagine that Apple would not want their cables

00:41:04   to feel better than your average generic cable.

00:41:08   It's been a long process for them.

00:41:11   I feel for the people who are in charge of cables at Apple,

00:41:14   because the first thing they got hit with

00:41:15   was the taking all of the bad chemicals

00:41:18   out of their plastic,

00:41:19   which took all the supple plastic cables

00:41:22   and made them all stiff and awful.

00:41:25   And there was a period

00:41:26   where you started getting Apple cables

00:41:28   and you're like, "Why is this so terrible?"

00:41:29   And the answer is,

00:41:30   "Well, we took out all the harmful chemicals

00:41:32   that made it nice."

00:41:34   Which is good, good for you,

00:41:36   but the end result was that the cables were crappy.

00:41:39   And now with this, with the braided cables,

00:41:43   my Apple cables, when I get a braided one,

00:41:45   and it's like, ooh, you notice how nice it is,

00:41:48   and they need to do that on every cable they sell.

00:41:51   - And remember last week we were talking a little bit

00:41:53   about what does the H2 chip do in the AirPods Pro?

00:41:58   It felt a little bit confusing at the time.

00:42:01   One of the things that I totally missed from the keynote,

00:42:03   I think I was too distracted by the severance cameo,

00:42:07   was adaptive transparency mode.

00:42:10   So it's a new transparency mode, it's more advanced,

00:42:14   and this is a quote from Apple,

00:42:17   "Undivised processing that reduces loud environment sounds

00:42:21   like a siren construction work or loudspeakers at a concert

00:42:23   without silencing noise entirely."

00:42:26   So I know I've experienced a version of this

00:42:28   with the current AirPods that like a police car drives by

00:42:31   and I can hear the siren get dimmed,

00:42:34   but if they've done something to make this better,

00:42:37   I'm all into this.

00:42:38   Like I'm very excited to try this out.

00:42:40   So I guess it's like,

00:42:42   'cause now they've rebranded it, right?

00:42:43   Now we have active noise cancellation

00:42:46   and adaptive transparency mode.

00:42:47   So like, I find that interesting.

00:42:50   - Okay, so I like this idea.

00:42:52   I wonder if it's like, you know,

00:42:54   just trying to reduce the dynamic range of some sounds.

00:42:57   - Yeah, yeah.

00:42:58   - So that the really loud stuff just gets quieter.

00:43:01   - Yep.

00:43:02   - Because the, I read this and I think a siren,

00:43:06   like if you're in transparency mode,

00:43:08   you wanna hear the siren, right?

00:43:10   'cause it may be coming for you.

00:43:14   You might wanna know that the siren is approaching,

00:43:17   get to the side of the road, do whatever you're doing.

00:43:20   So you wouldn't wanna remove that stuff completely.

00:43:21   But the idea that it's processing it

00:43:23   to reduce the dynamic range and maybe also do things

00:43:26   like amplify voices or something like that,

00:43:29   like it's a continuing process for them.

00:43:31   And this is augmented reality, right?

00:43:32   This is the audio version of augmented reality.

00:43:34   And they're trying to find ways to adjust this

00:43:40   to improve that mode, which I love, I love that mode.

00:43:44   So great, like I'm looking forward to this.

00:43:46   I'm gonna end up with these AirPods Pro,

00:43:49   it's just a matter of when, but as somebody who,

00:43:52   so when I take a walk or a run,

00:43:55   I am sometimes on paths and sometimes on street.

00:43:58   And so when I'm on street, I have transparency mode on

00:44:01   because I wanna hear if there's a car coming

00:44:03   or whatever, right?

00:44:05   And so I use both of these, both of these modes a lot.

00:44:09   there was some stuff that we were thinking about,

00:44:11   talking about today around like some bigger themes

00:44:16   that I think you were touching on.

00:44:17   One of them being kind of around the eSIM, right?

00:44:20   - Yeah, well, I just, I was thinking about how,

00:44:24   and this is in my like bin of things I wanna write about.

00:44:26   It's great to go out of the summer and you go from,

00:44:29   what am I gonna talk about or write about

00:44:30   to I have too many things,

00:44:33   but that's what happens when Apple holds an event.

00:44:35   And one of them is Apple always does this, right?

00:44:38   where they're like, we found this technology

00:44:40   and we think it's time to rip the bandaid off

00:44:43   and be like, we're going to this, right?

00:44:45   Whether it's, we're gonna take the headphone jack away

00:44:48   or, you know, but they've done this a bunch of times

00:44:51   where they're like, yeah, we're gonna standardize

00:44:52   on this thing now.

00:44:53   USB-C a little bit too early, but they're like, too bad.

00:44:56   We're gonna do this now.

00:44:57   And that's what struck me about the eSIM

00:44:59   is the eSIM thing in the US, that strikes me as Apple.

00:45:05   I mean, maybe it's the carriers

00:45:06   providing some pressure for them.

00:45:08   I don't know the dynamic there,

00:45:09   or are they providing pressure on the carriers?

00:45:12   I'm unclear on it, but it seems to be one of those things

00:45:15   where yes, there are complications.

00:45:16   There were a whole bunch of people afterward who were like,

00:45:18   but what about, but what about,

00:45:20   but what about if I travel to a place

00:45:23   that doesn't support eSIMs, what do I do then?

00:45:25   And Apple's reaction is like,

00:45:28   stay on your carrier then,

00:45:30   because your carrier will support roaming,

00:45:33   but this is where we're going.

00:45:34   And the only reason they're not selling

00:45:36   the eSIM only model elsewhere in the world is that the eSIM uptake is not as great there.

00:45:41   And I feel like this is all part of Apple. It just felt right out of their playbook of

00:45:45   like, "This technology is the right one. It's the inevitable future. Somebody needs to step

00:45:50   up and just say, 'Forget it. We're done with the SIM card.'" And there's a tangible, maybe

00:45:56   not in this version because they have to make two versions, but there's a tangible benefit

00:46:00   for Apple in getting that thing out because it is another water ingress. It is something

00:46:05   internal in the phone where they have to leave space for it, and they can get rid of it.

00:46:09   And if you think about it, as we said last week, regular SIM cards are dumb, right? If

00:46:14   you thought about it today, they're like floppy disks. They're not necessary. I get that they

00:46:20   have their uses, but it is a relic. No one would invent smartphones today and say, "Well,

00:46:26   what we need is a special slot where a little tiny memory card with almost nothing on it,

00:46:30   except an ID number gets inserted,

00:46:32   and that's the only way you can, like, no!

00:46:35   Nobody would ever do that.

00:46:36   So I appreciated that,

00:46:37   and it has some sort of a resonance for me

00:46:40   of other moves that Apple has made

00:46:41   that have been a little bit uncomfortable,

00:46:44   but I think Apple does have this attitude sometimes,

00:46:46   which is, I know people are gonna be uncomfortable,

00:46:49   but if we listen to the people who are uncomfortable,

00:46:52   the change will never happen,

00:46:54   and the change needs to happen.

00:46:56   So here we go.

00:46:57   Like, I've resisted.

00:46:58   I don't have an eSIM.

00:47:00   I still have a physical SIM in my phone.

00:47:02   And when I start reviewing these new phones,

00:47:04   well guess what?

00:47:05   I'm going to eSIM because I'm not gonna have another option.

00:47:09   And that's what Apple wants,

00:47:11   is to shove people like me into the eSIM future.

00:47:14   - Again, I'll report next week

00:47:15   and tell you how it went for me.

00:47:16   But like in theory, I have no problem with this

00:47:19   because it seems like there's like a very simple path

00:47:22   and I'm sure things fall through the cracks,

00:47:24   but things fall through the cracks all the time

00:47:26   when it comes to carrier stuff, right?

00:47:27   But if the process is as simple as you can just put

00:47:32   the phones near each other and it just transfers

00:47:34   the information and gets you set up, if it is that simple,

00:47:37   great, right, like I have no problem with that.

00:47:40   And then I don't have to deal with this tiny little card

00:47:42   and keep a sim card ejector tool around

00:47:46   and do all that nonsense.

00:47:48   - Yeah, my first real experience with eSIMs

00:47:51   was when my daughter went to Europe this summer for school.

00:47:57   She did a school study abroad summer program.

00:48:01   And so I'm looking at the AT&T,

00:48:04   very convenient $15 a day roaming international,

00:48:07   which is better than it used to be,

00:48:08   but it's still for a month plus it's not great.

00:48:12   And you can get,

00:48:14   I was able to buy her an eSIM for Europe

00:48:19   that was super cheap.

00:48:22   And the eSIM support on iOS is so good

00:48:26   because you can add, you can load in your eSIM

00:48:29   and then toggle like which one does data

00:48:31   and which one does phone and you can have them both on,

00:48:33   you can have them both off.

00:48:34   I knew all of this, but to see it in action,

00:48:36   I was just really impressed by it.

00:48:38   And it's so nice.

00:48:40   And I would imagine that on one level,

00:48:42   the carriers hate it because it's like,

00:48:44   it's instant access to a different carrier.

00:48:47   On another level though, I suspect the carriers like it

00:48:50   because it means the carriers can control,

00:48:54   you know, control what,

00:48:56   or at least know what you're doing on your phone

00:48:58   at a level, at a software level,

00:49:00   instead of just like what I imagine it is now,

00:49:03   where if I move my SIM card to a different phone

00:49:06   and I turn it on and the carrier is like,

00:49:08   "Well, this is a different phone,

00:49:09   but SIM card checks out, so okay."

00:49:11   I don't know.

00:49:12   I don't know whether the carriers love it or hate it,

00:49:14   but it's certainly just so good for users.

00:49:18   It really is great.

00:49:20   It feels like, you know, it's freedom.

00:49:22   It's freedom to move, like I told Jamie,

00:49:25   like, okay, it's loaded, turn it on when you get there

00:49:28   and turn off your American SIM and you're good, right?

00:49:32   And I said, you can leave your phone on if you want to,

00:49:36   but leave the data off,

00:49:37   or you can just turn the whole thing off

00:49:39   and leave the eSIM on.

00:49:40   It's very, very cool stuff.

00:49:42   And you can buy those in apps and install them.

00:49:45   So for travel, it's great.

00:49:46   Like, yeah, it's really good tech.

00:49:49   And my fear is that the carriers are gonna be bad at it,

00:49:53   but I feel like it's been out there long enough now

00:49:55   that maybe I've just avoided the badness.

00:49:57   - Well, but they can't be in the longterm, right?

00:50:00   Like if this is what Apple's doing,

00:50:03   they have to get good at it.

00:50:04   And this is one of the things that Apple has done over time

00:50:07   is like force the carriers to be better

00:50:10   because the scale is so large, you know?

00:50:14   Like, so yeah, I have no doubt that it's gonna,

00:50:17   it will push and I'll just do it forever then, right?

00:50:20   Like if this works for me, this process of transferring,

00:50:23   I'm sure Apple will probably roll it out

00:50:26   in the future phones, but even if they don't,

00:50:28   I'll just stay on the eSIM wagon forever.

00:50:30   Like it is a system which makes way more logical sense

00:50:34   to me in 2022 than a tiny little piece of plastic

00:50:37   with some copper on it that I stick

00:50:39   into the side of my phone.

00:50:41   - Yep, yeah, no, it's like, I said,

00:50:43   I said SIM cards were dumb and a couple of people wrote it

00:50:46   And they're like, "But what about this?

00:50:47   "But what about this?"

00:50:48   It's like, yeah, I know that it's problematic

00:50:50   in certain circumstances to go to an eSIM right now.

00:50:53   Like I get it, but just objectively,

00:50:58   we should not have them.

00:50:59   We just, they're dumb, they're old, they're outmoded.

00:51:03   They made them smaller and smaller and smaller,

00:51:04   but the last step is to make them nothing.

00:51:07   That's the final step here because they need to go away.

00:51:11   They're a relic of early 21st, if not 20th century,

00:51:16   century technology, they need to die.

00:51:19   - And there was also like a couple of interesting things

00:51:21   around kind of Apple's marketing spin, right?

00:51:25   Like the A15, bionic, stuff like that.

00:51:30   - I mean, yeah, where's the chip lab?

00:51:31   Is the note that I wrote down.

00:51:33   It's like, I got to write about where's the chip lab.

00:51:34   And it's like, I predicted on the draft,

00:51:37   I said, we'll see the chip lab

00:51:38   'cause I always see the chip lab

00:51:38   and we didn't see the chip lab.

00:51:40   And it's so telling,

00:51:41   I know I covered this a little bit earlier,

00:51:43   but like it's so telling that we didn't see it

00:51:47   because there's no chip story really.

00:51:49   Like Apple and they used the graphic,

00:51:53   which I appreciate that they did,

00:51:54   which is that they're so far ahead in smartphone chips

00:51:58   that honestly they're years ahead now.

00:52:00   And they had that with the iPhone 11 being faster

00:52:04   than the fastest competition,

00:52:06   which I haven't double checked that,

00:52:08   but if it's not the 11, it's the 12.

00:52:10   they lapped the competition a long time ago

00:52:12   with their chips.

00:52:13   And so I don't, it's one thing where it's like,

00:52:17   okay, they had to do Mac stuff,

00:52:19   which probably slowed the pace.

00:52:21   They don't need to go ahead.

00:52:24   They probably got new processes coming from TSMC.

00:52:27   I mean, this one's on the smaller process,

00:52:29   but there's more in the works there.

00:52:30   There's probably a larger chip platform update coming.

00:52:35   There are some rumors to that effect.

00:52:37   There's a lot going on in Apple's chip making process.

00:52:40   So taking some time and taking, not stopping,

00:52:45   but like taking your foot off the gas

00:52:48   is not unreasonable for them to do.

00:52:51   The problem is from a marketing perspective,

00:52:54   you still have to market these products as new and exciting.

00:52:57   And one of the ways you've always done that is with chips.

00:53:00   So here they're like comparing it to the competition

00:53:03   and they're doing things like talking about,

00:53:07   Well, there's a new,

00:53:07   like they mentioned the new system and package

00:53:09   on the Apple watch in one context for like the SE,

00:53:12   but they didn't really mention it in any other context.

00:53:14   And it's unclear whether that's actually faster

00:53:17   or it's really about the sensors.

00:53:19   And they did their little sophistry with the,

00:53:22   oh, it's upgrading to the pro processor from last year.

00:53:26   And it's like, yeah,

00:53:27   but you introduced that processor last year

00:53:29   on the base model too.

00:53:30   It just had one lower, one fewer GPU.

00:53:33   So there's a little like,

00:53:35   Oh no, it's new slightly.

00:53:38   And then the A16, or I mean the A15 is like,

00:53:43   so we've got this very weird combination

00:53:46   where it's like, we've got two chips.

00:53:47   One is not new, really, and one is new in an,

00:53:51   it's new-ish, right?

00:53:53   Like even the claims about the new chip on the new process

00:53:57   are pretty vague, right?

00:54:01   And I get the sense,

00:54:04   And I think this is right.

00:54:05   If you look at how they marketed it,

00:54:07   I get the sense that the real innovations in the new chip

00:54:11   are about supporting the new camera architecture,

00:54:14   not as much about raw speed.

00:54:17   And like, again, it's okay.

00:54:19   They're so far ahead that taking a break is okay.

00:54:23   I just, I wanted to note the marketing challenge it causes

00:54:28   because, you know, that was the look at the faster chips,

00:54:32   look at the faster GPUs,

00:54:33   let's do some game demos of games

00:54:34   you'll never play on your phone,

00:54:36   was such a staple of iPhone marketing.

00:54:39   And when you take a year with your foot off the gas

00:54:43   for the chip part, you gotta work harder in other areas,

00:54:46   which I just think it's an interesting place

00:54:48   that they're in.

00:54:49   - I do think that it,

00:54:50   you know, as we spoke about last time,

00:54:53   to me, it just makes sense to not need to have a new chip

00:54:56   in the iPhone every year.

00:54:57   Like, it doesn't need to keep being pushed so specifically,

00:55:01   at least every iPhone. And I understand that maybe now there is like, well, if they want

00:55:06   a new Mac chip every year, maybe they have to work on a new iPhone chip every year. But

00:55:09   I still don't think that we're at a point at the moment where all of these devices require

00:55:14   more and more and more all the time when the power is already so good, right?

00:55:18   I also think, I mean, they did last year, remember they did the launch and they talked

00:55:21   about compared to the competition and we all had to figure like, oh, well, it's not going

00:55:26   to be faster. And it actually was faster. They weren't trying to hide it. I wonder now

00:55:30   if maybe that was setting the stage for this year, that they said, "Look at our roadmap.

00:55:35   You can see where we're going. We're going to change the narrative now to be how far

00:55:39   ahead we are of the competition because we know that we're doing some changing in our

00:55:44   chip strategy. That's going to mean if we're constantly comparing to ourselves, we're going

00:55:50   to look bad." Again, I'm not saying they're trying to... Well, okay. I am saying they're

00:55:54   trying to get away with something, but I'm not saying that it's bad. I think that part

00:55:57   of the motivation is like, I could hear that people in the meeting saying, "Well, look,

00:56:02   raw CPU and GPU is not where we're focused in the next chip. And the A16, it's going

00:56:07   to be all about the ISP and working with that giant camera, and we're doing a bunch of stuff

00:56:13   for that." And the general public is going to be like, "Oh, look at Apple, the GPU and

00:56:19   CPU didn't really progress very much, and this is kind of a loser." And they probably

00:56:24   will do that anyway, right?

00:56:25   But like Apple doesn't wanna lean into that.

00:56:27   So they make some decisions about how they're gonna do it.

00:56:30   And yes, they did start this process last year

00:56:34   to get off the, I get it, right?

00:56:36   Like they're not competing with themselves.

00:56:39   So to compare themselves to themselves

00:56:42   and come up short is actually not,

00:56:46   you know, what they wanna do.

00:56:48   I mean, we focus on upgrades here for obvious reasons.

00:56:51   And also in the Apple world,

00:56:53   like you're going from iPhone to iPhone,

00:56:55   but like if the bigger picture is also expanding the iPhone

00:56:57   and dunking on the competition,

00:56:59   will you do that by comparing the iPhone 11

00:57:02   to the competition and saying, "Look how far ahead we are."

00:57:05   Not, and then look at the A15 and A16,

00:57:08   not saying 8% faster than last year,

00:57:12   because nobody's upgrading from last year,

00:57:14   except our listeners.

00:57:16   And it's not the point, right?

00:57:18   The point is upgrading from two, three, four years ago

00:57:20   and from Android phones.

00:57:22   And so if you're looking to get the best marketing message

00:57:25   out there, that's gotta be what you wanna do.

00:57:28   So I get what they're doing.

00:57:29   I just am fascinated by the fact that they have to do it.

00:57:33   And it's also a case where the Mac has stolen

00:57:35   some of the thunder of the iPhone here.

00:57:37   And that's the truth of it, right?

00:57:40   Is that they have so much to brag about

00:57:41   the last couple of years on the Mac,

00:57:44   but I feel like this is the other,

00:57:47   I don't know how directly connected they are,

00:57:49   but they're doing a lot less bragging about it

00:57:51   on the iPhone than they used to.

00:57:53   And they're doing a lot of bragging on the Mac side.

00:57:56   So it makes me wonder if maybe that's the trade-off

00:57:59   that they had to do.

00:58:00   They're like so far ahead that they can afford

00:58:02   to spend that time showing off these Mac specific processors.

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01:00:00   This could be the start of something exciting.

01:00:02   Well, thanks to Membrful for their support of this show

01:00:05   and Relay FM.

01:00:06   So today, iOS 16 comes out

01:00:10   And I wanted to touch on a couple of little things with you.

01:00:13   I mean, of course,

01:00:14   the reviewer of reviews is over at maxstories.net.

01:00:19   Did you say that Dan was working on something

01:00:21   for Six Colors?

01:00:23   - Yeah, Dan's got a review going up at Six Colors too.

01:00:25   It'll probably be up by the time people hear this.

01:00:27   - Awesome, so you can go and check that out

01:00:28   on Six Colors as well.

01:00:30   - In fact, it definitely will be because it's up right now.

01:00:32   - There you go.

01:00:33   So say it be done, you know what I mean?

01:00:37   - Yep, that's right.

01:00:38   (mimics music)

01:00:39   - Thanks Dan. - Breaking review posted.

01:00:40   - Thank you, Dan.

01:00:41   - See, look, you might be a new dad,

01:00:43   but he can still get the review up on time, you know?

01:00:45   - Oh, he did.

01:00:46   This is his, he's back everybody, he's back.

01:00:48   - Dan's back, baby.

01:00:49   Better watch out.

01:00:50   I don't know why, but you better.

01:00:52   Dan's back and he's coming to get you.

01:00:54   I don't know why I'm saying all this.

01:00:55   - He's coming to review your iOS.

01:00:57   - He's gonna do it.

01:00:58   So I wanted to just touch on a couple of things.

01:01:00   Obviously we've been using iOS 16.

01:01:02   For most of the beta cycle, right?

01:01:05   I put it on pretty early 'cause I was excited about it.

01:01:09   And I think for me, there are four things

01:01:14   that I am excited about

01:01:16   that are kind of the bigger elements.

01:01:19   So it's the lock screens, the focus mode changes,

01:01:23   the enhancements to messages and the home app redesign.

01:01:27   So they're the things that I'm really excited about.

01:01:30   There's a bunch of stuff that I'm also excited about,

01:01:32   but it's not shipping right now.

01:01:34   Stuff like live activities and the free format.

01:01:36   It's like, I wanna know what that's all about.

01:01:38   iCloud photo sharing, photo shared library,

01:01:41   what's it called?

01:01:42   iCloud shared photo library.

01:01:43   - Shared photo library.

01:01:45   - It's not photo sharing, that's a different thing.

01:01:47   - Right.

01:01:48   - So there's stuff that I want that's coming later,

01:01:51   but there's still enough stuff for now.

01:01:53   I haven't tried the watchOS beta as I mentioned earlier,

01:01:56   so I'm excited for that.

01:01:57   Oh, one thing I forgot to mention, the medications feature.

01:02:00   I really liked that in iOS 16 as well.

01:02:03   I think that's been a nice addition.

01:02:04   How have you been setting up your lock screen?

01:02:08   What have you got going on on it?

01:02:09   - I have the, I don't have a lot of them.

01:02:13   I've been primarily just using one.

01:02:15   I need to do more of that customization

01:02:18   'cause I've got a bunch of little things.

01:02:20   - I mean, now's the time though, right?

01:02:22   'Cause we've been on betas, but now as of today,

01:02:25   there are loads of apps that are coming out

01:02:28   supporting lock screen widgets.

01:02:29   There's apps that I use a lot

01:02:31   that I've not been on the beta for,

01:02:32   but I'm looking forward to trying them out.

01:02:35   - And I've got that.

01:02:36   - I don't switch among my many lock screens

01:02:40   and I'm not using focus in order to change that.

01:02:43   So that's something that may change

01:02:45   maybe using the always on screen,

01:02:48   I might experiment with that,

01:02:50   but on my iPhone right now,

01:02:53   what I've been doing is I picked a space photo

01:02:58   as I often do for my lock screen.

01:03:00   And I have the widgets I've got right now,

01:03:04   I'm using Carrot, which has widgets that are coming out,

01:03:07   I think, in the final version today,

01:03:10   but I've been on the beta for that.

01:03:12   And so I've got a little thing on the left side,

01:03:14   right below my time,

01:03:16   that is next three days weather forecast.

01:03:19   And then on the right side,

01:03:20   I have a little circular widget

01:03:22   that is out of the Scriptable app,

01:03:24   that is literally just the temperature

01:03:27   on my home weather station.

01:03:29   So I can actually see the current temperature

01:03:31   at a glance on my lock screen, which I love,

01:03:33   But that's all I'm doing on the lock screen right now.

01:03:37   So I changed my lock screen image.

01:03:40   So I'd used photos of things or abstract things for a while.

01:03:45   But there was something about...

01:03:48   I was actually using an illustration

01:03:50   that my wife, Adina, had made for a birthday gift for me.

01:03:53   I was using that as my lock screen for a while.

01:03:55   But there was something about the new design, to me,

01:03:58   that really spoke to having a person.

01:04:02   I think this new lock screen is really focused, I think, a lot about people or pets,

01:04:09   I think is the key thing that they're going for.

01:04:12   Yeah, people and pets.

01:04:13   And so at first I just wanted to see if I had a picture of my wife

01:04:17   so I could see, "Oh, the time goes behind her head," or whatever.

01:04:22   But then over time I was like, "No, I think this works really nicely."

01:04:25   So I've moved to that now and I expect that will be for me going forward,

01:04:29   it will be pictures of people again.

01:04:31   I really like the clock customization.

01:04:34   So I changed my clock to the Apple's New York font.

01:04:40   So, you know, people think about San Francisco a lot,

01:04:43   but Apple has a font called New York,

01:04:44   which is a Serif font, and I love it.

01:04:48   And I've been using that as my clock.

01:04:50   I then have the kind of the top one,

01:04:53   where it was, you know, it has, like, the date or whatever.

01:04:55   I've put "fantastical" up there.

01:04:58   So that's really great because it has the day, the date, and then also my next event,

01:05:03   which I just think is a fantastic thing to have above the clock. It's like, that's brilliant.

01:05:07   Then I also have Cara. I have the kind of forecast one. So at the moment,

01:05:11   it tells me the high and low temperature and what the conditions are for the day.

01:05:14   Then I have two of the circular ones. Currently, I'm running an app which is in,

01:05:20   if you're in our members Discord, some of our incredible Relay FM members built an app

01:05:24   to track the Sintrude fundraiser.

01:05:28   And it has widgets, and this year has all of the sub campaigns

01:05:31   and all that kind of stuff in it.

01:05:32   And they also have lock screen widgets.

01:05:34   So I can see right now that we are 37% to our fundraising goal.

01:05:39   And then I also have a Widgetsmith widget,

01:05:42   because you can imagine, underscore, you know,

01:05:45   he's got the widgets.

01:05:46   You know, that's what he does.

01:05:47   And I have one for step counting there too.

01:05:50   So I like to have my step counting right there

01:05:51   on the front.

01:05:52   I was playing around with having activity rings there for a while, right?

01:05:56   Because Apple shipped that, which I think is really cool, but I have those on my watch.

01:06:00   So I thought, oh, I don't really need the activity so prominent, but I do like to know

01:06:05   my step counts, so I'll put that there for now.

01:06:07   But I think I heard Federico talking about this, and I have no doubt that it's in his

01:06:11   review, I haven't gotten very far into it yet, but because I was here and talking about

01:06:15   on App Stories, that there is a level of kind of shaking out.

01:06:19   If you wear an Apple Watch, what things do you replicate or not?

01:06:25   Because I have my step counting on my Apple Watch too, so I probably don't need it on

01:06:30   the lock screen, maybe?

01:06:33   So I'm going to play around now with some of the other stuff that's coming out and see

01:06:37   if there's something that I would want to put in its place.

01:06:40   But there's a ton of great apps coming out with these widgets in them.

01:06:44   And this is it for me.

01:06:45   Now I'm wondering, do I want to have multiple lock screens?

01:06:48   Because I'm using the focus modes now more than ever,

01:06:51   because it's so easy to set them up now.

01:06:54   The setup process is simple.

01:06:56   By default, it includes everything in.

01:06:58   You can have that as an option, and then you can just

01:07:00   remove the things you don't want to be in the focus mode.

01:07:02   So I now have regular focus mode,

01:07:05   I have a recording focus mode, a travel focus mode,

01:07:09   weekends, and sleep.

01:07:12   And I have those mostly firing off on automations.

01:07:16   And it changed my lock screens to have different apps on them.

01:07:20   And I'm thinking I will also have them eventually change

01:07:22   my lock screen for the phone, too,

01:07:27   with different complication widgets, whatever you call them.

01:07:30   And I think most of that's going to shake out

01:07:32   with the always-on display.

01:07:33   So when I'm recording, usually at home,

01:07:36   I have a dock on my desk where my phone stands in it.

01:07:40   So now when I'm in my recording focus, I guess I would like to have some...

01:07:45   I don't know what they would be, but I'd pick some widgets that would match that.

01:07:49   Maybe I'll have the time tracking one from Timery up there or something.

01:07:53   Because it's going to be always on, so that's going to change the way I think about wanting more access.

01:08:00   I think I would like maybe a couple more of these widgets on the lock screen.

01:08:04   I think just the three in that little bar, or four if you use the circle ones.

01:08:09   I wouldn't mind another row, but maybe that's too much.

01:08:12   I don't know.

01:08:13   - No, I think that, I think the challenge is Apple's like,

01:08:17   "No, no, no, you only really get this one row

01:08:19   and the top line and that's it."

01:08:21   And I think Apple is going to need to accept

01:08:24   that people might want more of these.

01:08:25   And I'm not asking for a free form widget dropping tool

01:08:30   on the lock screen, but more space for more widgets

01:08:34   would be welcome.

01:08:36   - Yeah.

01:08:37   - I would like to see them.

01:08:38   In fact, okay, I'm gonna make another wild suggestion here,

01:08:41   which is, you know how the flashlight

01:08:43   and the camera are down at the bottom?

01:08:44   - Yeah.

01:08:45   - Those are circular widgets.

01:08:47   There should be more widget space down there.

01:08:49   You should be able to add or remove the flashlight

01:08:51   and the calendar or the camera

01:08:53   and put other widgets down there

01:08:55   and have that be another widget space down at the bottom,

01:08:58   I think.

01:08:59   - Or let me change those.

01:09:01   - Or yeah, whatever. - I thought I would.

01:09:02   - But like that would be a place that wouldn't overdo it.

01:09:04   And they are very similar to widgets.

01:09:07   So yeah.

01:09:08   - So I wouldn't, you know, but that feels like a,

01:09:11   that's a free iOS 17 or iOS 18 feature, right?

01:09:14   Like add those in.

01:09:16   - And also put them on the iPad at that point, right?

01:09:18   Next year, which is gonna be all the iPad review,

01:09:21   iPad OS reviews next month are gonna be very sad

01:09:23   that this feature doesn't exist on the iPad

01:09:25   'cause the iPad could totally use it.

01:09:26   It'll be really nice.

01:09:27   And they're like, no, no, no, no, no.

01:09:28   We can't design more than one lock screen at a time.

01:09:31   - So to me, like the focus modes and the lock screens

01:09:35   and the home screens,

01:09:36   tying together quite nicely and I'm looking forward to tinkering a little bit more with

01:09:40   the lock screen stuff as my needs change with it.

01:09:45   With messages, I just really like that I can edit my messages.

01:09:49   It's just a simple thing, you know, but I have a habit of spelling mistakes because

01:09:53   I type fast and don't look and just press send all the time.

01:09:56   That's my main issue is I don't proofread my messages because who's got time for that?

01:10:00   But sometimes I then send them like, "Oh man, that's such a simple error.

01:10:03   I could just change that."

01:10:04   rather than sending a second message, you know,

01:10:06   to say, oh no, like asterisk,

01:10:09   and then the actual word I meant to say.

01:10:11   It's a simple thing,

01:10:12   but I'm just happy that they've added it.

01:10:13   Like the retraction thing, like the deletion,

01:10:18   I don't think that's so much of a thing for me.

01:10:21   I mean, I guess if I ever need it,

01:10:22   I'll be happy that I have it.

01:10:23   But the editing is what I'm pretty excited about.

01:10:28   And I'm looking forward to it being on all my devices

01:10:32   and all of the people that I send messages to

01:10:35   having iOS 16, right?

01:10:37   'Cause at the moment I've been a little hesitant to use it

01:10:39   because it then sends the second iMessage

01:10:42   where it's like message edited

01:10:44   and then it has the new message, like it's a bit clunky.

01:10:47   So I look forward to that being more seamless

01:10:49   once everybody's using iOS 16.

01:10:52   - Yeah, I like edited messages

01:10:55   are something that I'm very slowly starting to work

01:10:58   into my message brain, right?

01:11:02   like saying, okay, I, oh, I made a mistake there.

01:11:05   This happened to me just the other day.

01:11:06   I made a mistake and I was like, you know what I'm gonna do?

01:11:08   I'm gonna edit the message to correct the mistake.

01:11:10   And I know that if you're on an older OS,

01:11:12   you're just gonna get Jason edited the message to say,

01:11:14   but I was talking to somebody who I was pretty sure

01:11:17   was on the beta and I did that.

01:11:19   And it's like, this is better.

01:11:20   Like this is, that's really nice.

01:11:22   I like it a lot.

01:11:24   - Yeah, it's a good feature.

01:11:25   And I love the Home app.

01:11:27   The Home app redesign is so much cleaner.

01:11:29   It looks better.

01:11:30   The information density is way better.

01:11:32   I like that I have customization better than I did before.

01:11:36   Something I didn't know, it was in a MacRumors article that I was reading about some of the

01:11:40   delayed features, is that there was also a reference to an updated architecture for the

01:11:45   home app that apparently is not in this shipping version of iOS 16, that is also coming later.

01:11:51   So that's good because hey if it gets even more reliable because of this I'm not going

01:11:54   to complain.

01:11:56   And then I still cross my fingers for matter to make my life better whenever it ships and

01:12:02   - Right. - Bring all my home stuff

01:12:03   together. - I wonder if those

01:12:04   are related too, but that's also, I think,

01:12:06   related to the idea of the new architecture

01:12:09   is gonna be the one that isn't supported on the iPad.

01:12:11   And what they're gonna do is let people stay

01:12:13   on the old architecture if they only have an iPad

01:12:15   to use as a home hub instead of an Apple TV

01:12:16   or a HomePod mini.

01:12:18   But yeah, otherwise,

01:12:22   that's, there's stuff going on in the background, right?

01:12:25   Like clearly they don't have it all together.

01:12:28   But yeah, the home app's better.

01:12:29   It is better.

01:12:30   It's not, you know, it's not fantastic,

01:12:32   but it's a lot better.

01:12:33   - Yeah, I like it a lot.

01:12:34   It's cleaned up a lot of the things

01:12:37   that annoyed me the most about the Home app.

01:12:40   You know, just like very quickly getting to certain things.

01:12:42   Like you have that button you can tap

01:12:44   and see all the lights and you can just hit all the lights.

01:12:46   You know, it's just stuff like that.

01:12:48   I just think it's cleaner and I like it a lot.

01:12:50   Is there anything else in iOS 16

01:12:53   that has really been jumping out to you?

01:12:56   - Well, the, so shared photo libraries,

01:12:58   I'm still working on it.

01:12:59   I'm still playing with it.

01:13:00   It's gonna be great.

01:13:01   It's not in the shipping version because,

01:13:04   okay, just to be clear here,

01:13:06   if you're using a beta

01:13:07   and you put something in the shared photo library,

01:13:09   and then you go to a device that's not on the beta,

01:13:11   those items disappear.

01:13:13   They're just not there.

01:13:15   So that's not great.

01:13:17   So yeah, so I think they're working for a time

01:13:21   where they're gonna turn that feature on for everybody

01:13:23   so that everybody can use it and everybody can see it.

01:13:25   And you'll still have that thing where you're like,

01:13:27   okay, we gotta update to see this thing,

01:13:29   but it'll be more in sync than it is now.

01:13:32   I like it.

01:13:33   I think it's actually very good.

01:13:34   I think they're very, very smart and careful

01:13:36   in what they were doing,

01:13:38   trying to be aware of all the different use cases

01:13:41   that go beyond people saying,

01:13:43   yes, share my every photo I take

01:13:45   with this other person in my life,

01:13:47   because while that is a use case,

01:13:49   and that's probably my use case,

01:13:52   there are a lot of other use cases

01:13:53   where you only wanna share certain things.

01:13:56   My daughter would never agree to take all of her photos

01:13:59   and share them with us, but having the option

01:14:02   of her throwing photos from our family trips

01:14:05   in the shared library, but nothing else,

01:14:09   that's great, right?

01:14:10   So I think that they're doing a good job with that.

01:14:15   And when they turn that feature on,

01:14:18   I think people should give it a try.

01:14:19   That said, it's not all there yet.

01:14:21   Like I was experimenting last week.

01:14:23   We had a question last week from somebody who asked,

01:14:26   I forget where they asked this, but I'll answer it here,

01:14:28   which is what happens if you have duplicates?

01:14:31   Well, right now when you have duplicates

01:14:34   and they're put in the same library,

01:14:35   they're just two of them, which is really bad

01:14:39   if you've got a main library

01:14:41   that you've been importing photos into over the years.

01:14:44   And then you've got your partner's library, let's say,

01:14:46   from which you imported those photos

01:14:48   and then they joined your shared library.

01:14:50   Now you could say not before this date,

01:14:52   which is the date of the last import.

01:14:53   But the fact is, you also do things like,

01:14:56   maybe text on a group text and it gets added.

01:14:59   They need to do a better job with duplicates.

01:15:02   I've asked around, it sounds like duplicate,

01:15:04   dealing with duplicates is supposed to be in there

01:15:06   and it's just not in there in what I'm seeing right now.

01:15:09   But that's a big red flag, right?

01:15:11   Like at the very least photos for Mac,

01:15:13   which has duplicates detection built in,

01:15:16   should flag them as duplicates.

01:15:17   And really what should happen is probably photos should say,

01:15:23   this is a duplicate.

01:15:24   I found some things that are already in the shared library.

01:15:27   What do you want me to do and ask you a question?

01:15:30   Now there's some challenges with that

01:15:33   because the person who contributes the photo

01:15:37   to the library owns the photo and can pull it back out.

01:15:40   So you could be in a situation where,

01:15:42   it's your photo and their photo and you contribute it,

01:15:47   but they already imported it.

01:15:48   So you don't contribute it and now you don't own it.

01:15:51   So they have some stuff to work through there.

01:15:53   I think maybe the right thing to do is to basically

01:15:56   not share it and mark it as hidden, something like that.

01:16:01   So you don't see it in your library and you only see one

01:16:05   or they could have it be like, well, there's two

01:16:07   and they're identical, but I'm only gonna display one.

01:16:10   But they gotta do something, right?

01:16:12   Because like the last thing you want is to get really excited

01:16:14   about the shared photo library and then have a thousand

01:16:17   duplicates that aren't flagged and you can't deal with them.

01:16:20   That's the worst.

01:16:22   So hopefully they're working on that part of it.

01:16:25   But that's the big hiccup that I've seen so far.

01:16:28   Otherwise it looks really very thoughtful

01:16:30   and I'm really looking forward to it

01:16:33   and I think it's gonna be great for a lot of people.

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01:17:53   from peels to cutters to oven tables and everything else in between. And Jason Stone, I'm sure

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01:18:02   pizza is awesome. It's just super good.

01:18:04   It's so good. You know, you can't, unless you happen to have a wood fired oven in your

01:18:10   house, which, I mean, good for you, I guess. Most of us can't get the temperatures that

01:18:18   are required, you know, 700 degrees Fahrenheit. Like, I, when I make pizza in my conventional

01:18:23   oven, it heats up my whole house. I gotta set it to 500 and the pizza stone sits there

01:18:28   and you gotta do that for a while and it's nice, but it's not gonna give you that kind

01:18:34   of classic high heat, wood-fired oven style thing, even if you're using propane like I

01:18:40   am. So yeah, it's just a, it goes really fast too, so if you've got different diets in your

01:18:47   house, one of the nice things that I like about it is you can make two or three or four

01:18:52   pizzas, lil pizzas, lil pizzas, and pop them in there one at a time, and like you're not

01:18:58   waiting around in my oven.

01:19:00   - Did you need to make sure everyone knew you meant

01:19:03   Lil and not Lil?

01:19:04   - Lil pizzas, I just, that's more of a commentary

01:19:07   for myself really that like, did I just say Lil pizzas?

01:19:09   I did, Lil pizzas is what I meant there.

01:19:12   Is it, well, look, everybody has Lil pizzas.

01:19:14   - That's Oony's mascot, Lil pizzas.

01:19:18   - The old prospector who bakes pizza around the campfire.

01:19:21   Yeah, 'cause it was wood-fired pizza,

01:19:23   obviously at the campfire.

01:19:25   What I'm saying is that in my oven,

01:19:26   it takes 12 minutes to make a pizza,

01:19:28   which means that if you wanna make multiple pizzas,

01:19:30   One of the pizzas not so warm when it's time to eat pizza.

01:19:33   With the Ooni, you can move them through there real fast,

01:19:37   you know, a couple of minutes,

01:19:38   and everybody gets their own pie,

01:19:40   which is also a really nice treat.

01:19:42   - So if you wanna go and check this out for yourself,

01:19:44   you should go to ooni.com, O-O-N-I.com.

01:19:47   And if you use the code UPGRADE22 at checkout,

01:19:50   you will save a wonderful 10% off your purchase

01:19:54   of an Ooni pizza oven.

01:19:55   This could be up to $50 off an Ooni Koda 16.

01:19:58   This is the perfect tool for making pizza at home, which is why Ooni Pizza Ovens remain in high demand.

01:20:03   So if you want one, go check it out right now.

01:20:05   Ooni Pizza Ovens are the best way to bring restaurant quality pizza to your own backyard.

01:20:10   Go to Ooni.com, that's O-O-N-I dot com, and use the code UPGRADE22 for 10% off.

01:20:15   A thanks to Ooni Pizza Ovens for the support of this show and Relay FM.

01:20:21   It is time for some #AskUPGRADE questions.

01:20:25   - Wow, those lasers got to me way faster than normal.

01:20:28   It must just be because of our distance.

01:20:30   That makes so much sense.

01:20:31   First one comes from John and John wants to know,

01:20:34   "Do you think we could see a nylon backed iPhone SE

01:20:38   coming in the future?"

01:20:39   - Okay, so this is referencing the Apple Watch SE,

01:20:43   which is the nylon back,

01:20:44   which probably drops the production price a little bit.

01:20:47   No, because I think it's very specifically

01:20:51   for the Apple Watch,

01:20:52   But I think the idea that they would use cheaper materials

01:20:55   and the iPhone SE is not unreasonable

01:20:59   other than to say, they're gonna do whatever makes

01:21:01   making that phone cheap possible.

01:21:04   And if changing the materials to a cheaper material

01:21:09   costs more money than they would save,

01:21:13   they will leave the materials

01:21:16   of whatever phone model they use alone, right?

01:21:18   In the end, they will make whatever decision

01:21:20   is cheapest for them.

01:21:21   So if that's a plastic-backed iPhone SE, they'll do that.

01:21:26   The rumor is that they're gonna take the XR,

01:21:30   which is also the 11 size, and do an SE based on that.

01:21:34   And that had a, did that have a plastic-y back?

01:21:39   I think it might, maybe it did.

01:21:40   - No.

01:21:42   - Or was it, no?

01:21:43   - I don't think so.

01:21:44   - Was it glass back?

01:21:45   - I think it was glass.

01:21:46   - All right, well, my guess is that it'll be that then,

01:21:49   Right, like that they're gonna use the 10R11 size

01:21:52   and just not change the materials.

01:21:55   But if they can save money by changing materials,

01:21:58   they will.

01:21:59   I think the challenge there is that,

01:22:01   one of the reasons old phone models are cheaper

01:22:04   is because they don't have to retool

01:22:06   and they don't have to redesign.

01:22:07   They just kind of use the same assembly line

01:22:09   more or less as much as possible.

01:22:11   - Next one comes from Andy.

01:22:14   I'm buying a new iPhone and watch this year.

01:22:17   Should I do anything in particular to make sure that the migration goes smoothly?

01:22:21   I mean, I don't know, the migration stuff that's built into the iPhone is really good now.

01:22:30   The new quick setup thing is fantastic.

01:22:33   That's what I recommend. Some flavor of the quick setup for sure.

01:22:37   And doing the transfer, you know, kind of depends what you're looking for, right?

01:22:43   Like if you want to do the fastest transfer,

01:22:46   but you won't be able to use your phone for a while,

01:22:48   they have that like direct transfer

01:22:50   or something it's called now, which is really good,

01:22:52   but both of your phones kind of are just dead for a bit,

01:22:56   which, you know.

01:22:57   - Dead for an hour or two, yeah.

01:22:58   - But then you have like fewer passwords

01:23:00   and stuff to put in,

01:23:01   or you can just do the simple one

01:23:03   and do the iCloud restore

01:23:04   so you can start using the phone immediately,

01:23:06   but it's going to take you a little bit longer

01:23:07   and a bit more set up, I think.

01:23:09   - Yeah, I like it a lot,

01:23:10   and then it will also walk you through,

01:23:12   I think the Apple Watch stuff is also pretty,

01:23:15   pretty straightforward now.

01:23:16   - Yeah, just pay attention.

01:23:18   Yeah. - Yeah.

01:23:19   - If you're getting a new, hmm.

01:23:23   If you're getting a new watch,

01:23:27   I would recommend move the phone to the new phone first,

01:23:32   transfer your current watch, then do the new watch.

01:23:37   - Yeah, unless it asks you, I haven't actually done that,

01:23:39   so I wonder if it asks you, like,

01:23:40   do you also have a new watch?

01:23:41   but probably not, and you would move your watch over.

01:23:45   - And you would say, no, why not?

01:23:47   Do you not like the new watches?

01:23:48   - Yeah. - What's wrong with you?

01:23:49   - Placing an order right now.

01:23:51   Can you give me your credit card?

01:23:52   So yeah, it might, I mean,

01:23:54   because if you unpair the old watch as part of the process,

01:23:57   and then it's got a backup,

01:23:58   you could possibly just pair the new watch and have it work.

01:24:02   I haven't tried that, but, you know,

01:24:04   following Apple's instructions at this point,

01:24:08   I think is the right way to do it.

01:24:09   And I also prefer the restore version,

01:24:14   cloud restore version,

01:24:15   just because it gets you up and running faster

01:24:17   and you don't have to sit there while every app downloads.

01:24:19   - Yep.

01:24:20   Eric asks, "On a scale from one to 11,

01:24:23   "how weird is it that the German Apple website

01:24:26   "markets the iPhone 14 Pro as Das Pro Plus Ultra?"

01:24:31   - Das Pro Plus Ultra.

01:24:33   - And I have a screenshot here that Eric provided,

01:24:36   But that is three different product names.

01:24:39   (laughs)

01:24:40   Right?

01:24:41   You've got Pro and Plus and Ultra.

01:24:43   So it's the marketing line on the website.

01:24:46   So at the moment, that marketing line

01:24:49   on the American website says Pro Beyond.

01:24:54   They need to change a little bit every now and then.

01:24:57   But it's talking about it being the most Pro.

01:25:00   So I think there's just some German stuff

01:25:02   that's going in there language-wise to explain.

01:25:05   But it's just so funny of like, they know the names, right?

01:25:09   And like the names are in English.

01:25:11   In Germany, it's called the iPhone 14 Pro.

01:25:15   So it's just funny that they then put plus and ultra

01:25:18   in the name of their marketing materials.

01:25:20   - Yeah, it's whatever is, n├Ąplus ultra, right?

01:25:24   It's like Latin.

01:25:25   And so there's, yes,

01:25:27   there's a German translation thing going on there.

01:25:29   It is hilarious.

01:25:31   To answer the question though,

01:25:35   Eric's question on a scale from one to 11, I don't know.

01:25:38   I think it's gonna say like a five because like,

01:25:42   keep in mind the iPhone 13 Pro slogan on Apple's website

01:25:46   for an entire year was, "Oh, so pro,"

01:25:51   which is the dumbest slogan ever.

01:25:55   They've run out of things to say.

01:25:58   But there's a spot in the slide

01:26:01   where they have to put something.

01:26:02   So they put that there and it's silly.

01:26:04   So I would much prefer that it say "Das Pro Plus Ultra"

01:26:09   everywhere in the world, quite frankly.

01:26:11   So I'm gonna take it down, it's a one.

01:26:13   It's a one, I love it.

01:26:15   - You really love it, "Das Pro Plus Ultra."

01:26:16   - It is weird though, okay, five, it's a five.

01:26:18   It is weird, it's just I love it, but it's weird.

01:26:20   - Right, it is weird.

01:26:21   Like I know what they're going for, it makes sense, right?

01:26:24   But it's strange because it's not like

01:26:27   these are rumored names.

01:26:29   - Yeah, "Dear Apple Germany," you missed a word,

01:26:31   "It's Das Pro Plus Max Ultra."

01:26:34   Yeah come on get it together will you?

01:26:35   Get it right.

01:26:36   Chris asks, the Apple Watch Ultra doesn't seem to be a part of the Series 8 family like

01:26:40   the Edition or Hermes models were. It appears to be a separate line of watch model, like

01:26:46   the SE is. How often do you anticipate it would be updated?

01:26:51   So if you go to Apple's website, it's got its own little part in the banner. So you've

01:26:56   got Apple Watch Ultra, Apple Watch Series 8, Apple Watch SE. You've still got Apple

01:27:00   watch Nike is still up there but they don't do them just the bands now so like it's considered

01:27:05   its own kind of brand but not a part of series 8.

01:27:12   Dain aubent oeil, wartet. Indeed thank you very much. It's the German slogan is your

01:27:18   adventure awaits but yeah it's the same thing adventure awaits yeah it's a totally separate

01:27:22   So I do wonder, will there be a new Apple Watch Ultra

01:27:27   in a year or two?

01:27:30   Or will they just update it with the series,

01:27:34   but just call it the new Apple Watch Ultra?

01:27:38   I don't know.

01:27:39   I'm curious about it.

01:27:41   I don't really know.

01:27:42   I would imagine that if it does well,

01:27:45   it'll get updated every year or two.

01:27:47   It might be little stuff.

01:27:51   I could imagine an update next year

01:27:54   because it's new, right?

01:27:56   So like there might be a couple of things

01:27:57   I wanna add to it.

01:27:59   - Yeah.

01:28:00   - But I don't feel like it needs every year,

01:28:05   but who knows?

01:28:06   I mean, we'll see.

01:28:07   It seems like a lot, right?

01:28:09   - Right.

01:28:10   If they've got something that they need to enable,

01:28:12   I mean, on the other hand,

01:28:13   if it's literally just use the same subsystem and package,

01:28:16   and so you might as well,

01:28:18   I could see them doing that too,

01:28:19   which is just like, look, we just roll it out everywhere,

01:28:22   every year, so it gets it.

01:28:25   It'll be interesting to see how they do it.

01:28:26   I honestly don't know.

01:28:27   - Yeah, but I guess the thing is,

01:28:29   the watch doesn't get a new system on a chip

01:28:31   every year anymore, right?

01:28:32   Like that's been, it was using the previous one

01:28:34   for a couple of years.

01:28:36   - Yeah, right, so if they're doing that,

01:28:38   then why would they update it at all?

01:28:40   Yeah, I think the bigger point here is,

01:28:42   clearly it doesn't need to be updated every year.

01:28:46   I mean, we could argue, does the Apple Watch

01:28:47   need to be updated every year anyway, but they do.

01:28:51   But I think they'll judge it.

01:28:53   I'm hopeful that it will be updated more often

01:28:57   because they are going to try and aggressively push

01:29:00   this line to compete with the high-end sports watches.

01:29:04   And this is just a starting point

01:29:07   because there's more they need to do

01:29:08   to compete with the garments of the world.

01:29:10   The garments, anybody who says,

01:29:13   "Oh, well, this is it for Garmin."

01:29:15   It's like, no, like there are so many features

01:29:18   that the Garmin watches have that the Apple Watch can't do.

01:29:21   So there's a lot of work that Apple still needs to do

01:29:23   in this space.

01:29:24   And so I would like to see them be more aggressive

01:29:26   in improving that model.

01:29:29   But the other way to look at it is no,

01:29:31   they wouldn't need to do it on the same timeframe

01:29:32   as the Apple Watch because it is its own thing.

01:29:35   - On the Garmin thing.

01:29:37   So like, I mean, I feel like without knowing a ton

01:29:41   about this world, and I've been seeing a little bit more

01:29:44   of it than I have before.

01:29:45   I imagine this will take a chunk away from them because there will be people that maybe

01:29:50   would want all of the things an Apple Watch could do plus look nicer maybe and also have

01:29:56   some of the features right? But yeah you're right it's not gonna come and completely destroy

01:30:01   them but you've got to be worried if you're Garmin.

01:30:04   Yeah I mean the nuance here is so lost which is I know it's the internet but like neither

01:30:08   of these things are true. Neither is Garmin destroyed today, nor is Garmin untouched today.

01:30:18   Because I think you're right. I think there are people who bought the Garmin or might

01:30:24   think of buying a Garmin watch who will look at the Apple Watch Ultra and say, "Oh, I'd

01:30:32   rather have that. I'd rather have an Apple Watch." And like, are they, there's somebody

01:30:37   who is not going to use a lot of the Garmin features, and it's enough for them to sort

01:30:41   of fulfill their desire to have a sports watch. So I think it hurts Garmin at the low end

01:30:49   of its product line with people who are thinking, "Well, do I sacrifice the things I like about

01:30:54   Apple Watch in order to do this Garmin watch?" And they'll say no. But it's going to take

01:31:01   this is like step one for Apple. And I think, do I think Apple could really threaten Garmin?

01:31:08   I do. I think they could, but they're going to have to try real hard to do that. And I think

01:31:13   that's the question. We see this a lot with Apple. Remember, I mean, it's things like iBooks too,

01:31:19   like there are so many cases where Apple comes into a market and it's like, aha,

01:31:23   we're going to take it over because we're Apple. And then they look at the market and they're like,

01:31:26   this isn't that interesting a market. We would have to try really hard to take it over. We're

01:31:31   we're not gonna try that hard.

01:31:32   And that's my fear about Apple Watch Ultra,

01:31:35   is that Apple's not, like, I don't know if I would say fear.

01:31:40   I think that it's a question you have to ask

01:31:42   about the fate of Garmin

01:31:43   and how Apple wants to play in this market is,

01:31:45   does Apple really want to be in Garmin's market?

01:31:48   Or does Apple just want to kind of slice off

01:31:51   the bottom part of it and push Garmin further up?

01:31:55   - They are not willing to do what Garmin is willing to do.

01:31:59   - Exactly.

01:32:00   you would have to take out so many features from an Apple Watch to make it last for a week, so.

01:32:05   And they want-- also that takes effort, right? But now you're putting a lot of your Apple Watch

01:32:11   development effort into an increasingly small slice of the market, right? So I guess that's

01:32:17   my question is, how high up does Apple really want to go with the Apple Watch Ultra? Is this it?

01:32:22   Do they want to kind of be like, in the discussion of whether you should bother getting a Garmin

01:32:29   sports watch or another competitor, versus just,

01:32:33   but they're the leader, versus just like,

01:32:35   "Oh, well, but this sport Apple Watch will give that to me,

01:32:39   and that's enough for me."

01:32:40   Like, is that all they're really trying to do

01:32:42   is sort of set a cap and take away

01:32:45   some of the bottom of Garmin's market,

01:32:47   or do they wanna go higher up?

01:32:48   And they might wanna go a little higher up over time,

01:32:53   but I think it's also unlikely

01:32:56   that they would wanna do all the things

01:33:00   that would be required for them to reach.

01:33:02   Honestly, this is the same conversation we have

01:33:04   about Sherlocking, if you put it in that context,

01:33:07   is a bunch of apps do a thing, Apple puts it in the system.

01:33:10   What happens to those apps?

01:33:11   Well, their life got harder,

01:33:13   but what generally happens is Apple's only really interested

01:33:16   in the broad use case, a very simple version,

01:33:19   and all the third-party apps end up being, they survive.

01:33:24   Maybe it's a little harder for them,

01:33:26   but they get to do all the things that Apple's just not gonna bother with because

01:33:29   Apple doesn't want to do a feature for the niche. They want to do a broad version of that feature, one

01:33:34   that's got broad appeal, but doesn't have the power user features and all that stuff.

01:33:38   And that's where those Sherlock apps end up living and honestly often thriving.

01:33:43   I think that's the situation Garmin is in here. Where Garmin's gonna be fine,

01:33:47   they may,

01:33:50   their business may hurt a little bit on the low end because Apple's gonna push up, you know, against it there.

01:33:56   there. But I have a hard time believing that Apple is going to come for the highest end

01:34:01   Garmin sports watches, right? Like, it would be way too much effort, and as you said, they

01:34:07   would have to do some really weird things to the Apple Watch platform to get it there,

01:34:12   and I'm not sure they really are interested, because the further up you go, the thinner

01:34:16   you slice it.

01:34:17   You don't have to make all of the products. I am already surprised at just how extreme

01:34:23   sportsy the Ultra is. It's more than I thought they would do. This is as much as you need

01:34:29   to realistically do to get a nice slice of a market but also not make something so niche

01:34:35   that it only appeals to that small slice of the market. I think the Ultra is straddling

01:34:41   a good line between this is a cool thing which also does all the Apple Watch features you

01:34:46   like plus it has all these additional things which are also really good. Maybe you'd use

01:34:50   a few of them. You know, I think it could appeal to more people that way, rather than

01:34:56   like, "Oh, we made this watch for scuba divers only. Are you a scuba diver? Great.

01:35:00   And you're not? What are you doing? Why would you buy this?" Right? So you don't

01:35:04   need to be in that market. I don't think that's a good market for them to be in.

01:35:08   That said, I think one of the things that we need to watch in the next couple of years

01:35:12   is when the Apple Watch Ultra comes out, it's a first cut at this. I know that they've

01:35:18   with people in advance, but it's gonna be out there

01:35:20   in the market and they're gonna get criticized

01:35:23   by people who are in this space who wanna use

01:35:26   this Apple Watch 'cause they think the,

01:35:27   'cause like never bet against Apple software, right?

01:35:30   Like Garmin's, I heard some people say,

01:35:33   well, you know, but Garmin has this software

01:35:35   that's very, it's like, okay, look,

01:35:36   I think Apple can win any software battle it wants to fight.

01:35:41   I think the issue though is like,

01:35:43   what do they wanna fight and what do they wanna do?

01:35:45   And are they gonna listen when people say,

01:35:48   people are gonna come and say like,

01:35:49   here's 40 things that Garmin's products do

01:35:52   that you guys don't do.

01:35:53   And that's why I'm not gonna buy an Apple Watch Ultra.

01:35:56   And my question is, what are they listening to there?

01:36:00   And are they striving,

01:36:02   and I don't know the market well enough to say this,

01:36:04   but like, are there five moves they could take next year

01:36:08   with software and hardware, or 10 moves, or four moves,

01:36:12   whatever, a small cut of it

01:36:15   that gets them more of an audience, right?

01:36:18   That gets them the lowest hanging fruit in that market

01:36:22   where they're still not gonna hit the highs,

01:36:24   but they're gonna be able to eliminate some blockers

01:36:28   and get more people to use the Apple Watch Ultra.

01:36:31   'Cause I think a lot of the potential audience

01:36:33   for the Apple Watch Ultra is people who know the Apple Watch

01:36:37   and probably like the Apple Watch

01:36:38   or think positive things about the Apple Watch,

01:36:42   but it just doesn't provide the level of functionality

01:36:46   that they need.

01:36:46   And if they can get the more of those people they can get,

01:36:49   the better that product's gonna be.

01:36:50   My fear is that they will have, having done this product,

01:36:55   that they will be less focused on this market

01:36:58   and that's sort of it.

01:36:59   And that's not gonna kill the product.

01:37:01   The product, I think, will still be pretty successful,

01:37:03   but it's gonna be, like that's the question,

01:37:05   is how much do they wanna push it,

01:37:07   or has Apple already reached the limit?

01:37:10   If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on a future episode of

01:37:14   Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or use question

01:37:17   mark ask upgrade in the Relay FM members discord, which you can get access to if

01:37:21   you sign up for Upgrade Plus at getupgradeplus.com and you'll get longer

01:37:25   ad-free versions of every episode of Upgrade.

01:37:27   Don't forget, this Friday, it's the 16th, 12 to 8 PM US Eastern time, twitch.tv/relayfm

01:37:36   for the fourth annual podcast of Farm for St. Jude,

01:37:39   broadcasting live from St. Jude's campus

01:37:42   here in Memphis, Tennessee.

01:37:43   It's gonna be Stephen and I,

01:37:45   keeping you entertained for a really long time.

01:37:47   We've got a bunch of wonderful Relay FM guests.

01:37:49   We've got game shows, we've got fun,

01:37:51   we've got frolics and activities.

01:37:53   Please come and check out what we do

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01:37:57   Please donate to St. Jude at stjude.org/relay as well.

01:38:00   Our thanks to Ooni, Member for Fitbud, and TextExpander

01:38:04   for the support of this week's episode.

01:38:06   and we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:38:09   Goodbye, Myke Hurley.

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01:38:14   [ Music ]