0:00:00[Music]
0:00:12From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, Episode 419.
0:00:17Today's show is brought to you by Sourcegraph, Hover, and CleanMyMac X.
0:00:21My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.
0:00:24Hi, Myke Hurley.
0:00:26I have a #SnellTalk question for you.
0:00:28- All right.
0:00:29- Comes from instantiate this and they asks,
0:00:31if you were in a car chase with the police,
0:00:33what song do you put on to keep you going?
0:00:36- Interesting premise.
0:00:38Again, I will say I choose to interpret this
0:00:41as that I am chasing the police because they're bad police
0:00:44or I'm teaming up with the police to chase bad people.
0:00:47- Is this Sting or not Sting?
0:00:50Different police.
0:00:51- Oh, I love that.
0:00:53So we're in a car chase.
0:00:55The bank robbers are getting away,
0:00:57but I'm driving and Sting is in the passenger seat.
0:01:02And Stewart Copeland and Andy Summers are in the back seat.
0:01:05I like it.
0:01:08- Surprise!
0:01:09- They're gonna complain.
0:01:11Well, yeah, I should really put on, you know,
0:01:14every breath you take at that point or something
0:01:16'cause they're gonna be like,
0:01:17oh, actually, no, they don't wanna hear it.
0:01:18They've heard it too many times.
0:01:20My funny answer that I thought of as part of this,
0:01:23of course, is to lean on the Beverly Hills cop.
0:01:27I immediately thought, "Well, the heat is on by Glenn Frey is the perfect answer here,"
0:01:33because every 80s car chase was basically "the heat is on."
0:01:37And if instantiate this as actually something that wants to get me kind of pumped, it would
0:01:41be probably from the Bob Mould catalog, like the "Aqui-Act by Sugar," or maybe "Something
0:01:48I Learned Today" by Husker Du, something that's really loud and shouty and is going to get
0:01:53me pumped up to drive that car and do whatever with the police that will happen next. Probably
0:02:01an impromptu concert at a coffee house after we catch the bad guy. There'll be like a fruit
0:02:06cart will be overturned, a fire hydrant will be clipped, water will be spewing up, but
0:02:10the bad guy will be led away by the cops and the police and I will be hanging out in front
0:02:16of a coffee house next to the fire hydrant and playing a message in a bottle.
0:02:22What about "Born to be Wild"? It feels like a good one. Maybe overplayed.
0:02:27Not my style. I'm going to go with the punky "Hoosker Doo" sugar kind of stuff.
0:02:35If you would like to send in a question for us to open an episode of Up Green, as you
0:02:40can tell, we could answer just about anything. Send out a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk,
0:02:45use question mark "snowtalk" in the Relay FM members discord, which is something that
0:02:50get access to if you subscribe to Upgrade Plus. Go to GetUpgradePlus.com and you will
0:02:59be able to sign up for $5 a month if you do those a year. You get tons of great benefits
0:03:02like access to RelayFam members Discord, I think primarily for Upgrade Plus. You get
0:03:07extra content. This time you will hear us, well you will hear Jason talk me through setting
0:03:14up a complex shortcut for podcast editing notes. That's what we do on Upgrade Plus today.
0:03:19If you wonder what on earth does that mean, go to getocoplast.com.
0:03:23Jason, it seems to me like there is an awful lot of stuff going on with HBO and Discovery
0:03:29right now, because I see people talking about it a lot.
0:03:32Yes, there's a lot of misinformation, a lot of accurate information, lots going on.
0:03:37And I want to know in advance of this, will you be talking about this on the next downstream?
0:03:42Well, only the downstream show document will know that for sure, and I am working on that
0:03:48later today because we record tomorrow. But yeah, it may be entirely what we talk about
0:03:54next time on there is what is going on with Warner Brothers Discovery and what's happening
0:03:57with HBO Max and what is David Zaslav doing over there. And I saw, what was it, John Oliver
0:04:03last night said, "I get the distinct impression that my network is being burned down for the
0:04:07insurance money."
0:04:08I feel like there were sometimes these things happen and I'm like, "Only Julia can explain
0:04:13this to me." You know? And so, all right, I'm looking forward to it because I've been
0:04:17I've seen a lot of spread, like some slides going around to it, and I don't really understand
0:04:23what's happening.
0:04:24Oh, the slides are a thing to behold.
0:04:27There is one slide in particular involving an arrow that goes into like a box and that
0:04:32explains that it's like streaming and it's like, okay?
0:04:37But yeah, there's some amazing...
0:04:39I'll just say, I feel like listening to the call about financials where they're trying
0:04:46to talk to the money people. It's a lot like Apple stuff, right? You gotta filter it through
0:04:50the fact that they're talking to the money people. They're talking to the investors,
0:04:53they're talking to Wall Street, they know that they've got a big debt, what are they
0:04:57gonna do, what's their strategy, what happens to the stock price, and of course the CEO
0:05:00wants the stock price to go up and not down, so he's gonna spin everything he's doing in
0:05:05that call for Wall Street and speak the language that they understand, which is incomprehensible
0:05:12PowerPoint slides. So that's not quite, so yes, the creative side and the consumer side
0:05:18will take the wrong message away from that and he's going to have to deal with the fallout
0:05:23of that. But they were speaking a different message to Wall Street than they're going
0:05:26to speak to the creators of the stuff that they're doing. But still there's a lot, I
0:05:32feel like it's simultaneously what they're doing is overstated in terms of how terrible
0:05:37it is, and yet on another level accurate. So we'll see what Julius says.
0:05:42Yep, so you can go to relay.fm/downstream and that's where you'll go to get that
0:05:48wonderful podcast and you'll hear more about it.
0:05:51Alright, some follow up. We did follow up. Now I have follow up. So we had spoken about
0:05:59Apple ditching their plans to create their own modems, right? We were talking about they
0:06:05they were having a bunch of problems with that?
0:06:07- I mean, they're delaying, right?
0:06:09- Delaying, sorry, yes.
0:06:09- The whole Intel business and all of that,
0:06:12and they've been working on it,
0:06:13but there was that report that said,
0:06:15I think Ming-Chi Kuo was saying,
0:06:16"It's not gonna be in next year's iPhones."
0:06:19They've had to push it back.
0:06:20They were hoping to get it in next year's iPhones,
0:06:22didn't happen, they're gonna have to use Qualcomm parts
0:06:25for that, and their Apple-built 5G stuff
0:06:29is gonna have to come later.
0:06:31- Well, it seems that they are still very committed
0:06:33to this idea in new and wonderful ways.
0:06:36They've just purchased 67 acres of land from HP,
0:06:40which is funny 'cause I think Apple Park
0:06:42was built on HP land as well, which is just kind of funny.
0:06:45- It was formerly HP, yeah.
0:06:47- So they bought 67 acres of land from HP
0:06:50to build new facilities north of San Diego.
0:06:54And the expectation is this is going to be for modems
0:06:56because apparently this is modem town, Qualcomm is around.
0:07:00- Yeah, well, Qualcomm is in San Diego.
0:07:03They're just north of San Diego.
0:07:05And this is a little further north of downtown San Diego,
0:07:10but it's in the vicinity.
0:07:13The idea here is this is where,
0:07:16it's a little like when they were doing their,
0:07:17starting to investigate car stuff,
0:07:19they set up offices in Waterloo, Ontario,
0:07:21right next to QNX and Blackberry,
0:07:23because when you're hiring away people
0:07:27from the competition to build something,
0:07:31it's awfully nice if you've got a facility right next to them
0:07:34so they don't have to uproot their family.
0:07:36And so Apple has continued with what I believe Intel did
0:07:39originally, which is if you're gonna be Qualcomm
0:07:42and you're gonna beat Qualcomm,
0:07:44you gotta set up shop in San Diego
0:07:47'cause that's where Qualcomm is.
0:07:48- Yep. - Good place.
0:07:49Who would wanna leave San Diego?
0:07:51I think that's the bigger point there is
0:07:53who would wanna actually leave San Diego for anywhere else?
0:07:56I mean, I did, but I graduated from college
0:07:58and had to get a job, but otherwise I would not have left
0:08:00because it's great. So more Apple. I love that they had a press release that's like,
0:08:05"Oh, Apple's been a part of San Diego for several decades." And when I was in college,
0:08:10there was a big building not too far away from our college campus that had a big rainbow
0:08:14Apple logo at the top of it. Apple has been a part of it. I don't know what was in it
0:08:18at that point. But yeah, Apple's been in San Diego for a very long time, on and off at
0:08:23least. And so, yeah, they're expanding. Keep in mind, they already have space. I don't
0:08:29I don't know if they're gonna leave that space or what,
0:08:32but they're in Mira Mesa where Qualcomm is,
0:08:35but they're doing this.
0:08:37So good job, San Diego people.
0:08:41We got some Apple there.
0:08:43- There are also some more hints of always on screens code
0:08:47being found in the latest Xcode beta,
0:08:50potentially for the next iPhones.
0:08:51Steve Moser uncovered some evidence of lock screen widgets
0:08:55changing their appearance.
0:08:56So they're dimmed or like color is removed from them.
0:08:59- Yeah, this is, and what's really interesting about this
0:09:02is, and then also like the clownfish
0:09:04has a different appearance.
0:09:05And I initially thought that this was the dimming.
0:09:08'Cause when you put, when a phone goes into sleep mode,
0:09:11it does dim everything.
0:09:13But what's interesting is the dimmed media files
0:09:17that people are finding are not what is displayed
0:09:21in sleep mode.
0:09:23They're different, which is weird.
0:09:24Like the clownfish image in sleep mode,
0:09:28it looks like is just, it's got an opacity,
0:09:32you know, in front of it, 20% or whatever,
0:09:35where it's dimmed.
0:09:36Whereas this dimmed clownfish,
0:09:38like doesn't have the colors removed from it,
0:09:42a very specific kind of color profile.
0:09:43So it looks very much like what we already suspected,
0:09:47which is Apple is working on all the assets
0:09:49to make it so that there is an additional mode
0:09:52that would presumably be the always on mode,
0:09:55where it dims itself and the color drops out
0:09:56and the brightness drops out,
0:09:57but you can still see it in a kind of high contrast way
0:10:00on the OLED display of the new iPhones.
0:10:02- Jason, I wanted to talk a little bit more
0:10:05about the MacBook Air,
0:10:06because I mean, I think I referenced this.
0:10:10I have one for a couple of weeks that Apple sent me.
0:10:13I now have my own,
0:10:16and I wanted to give a little bit more about,
0:10:18a little more of my thoughts about that whole experience
0:10:21and why I have decided to own a MacBook Air of my own.
0:10:26- That's nice.
0:10:27the record I got my purchased midnight MacBook Air last week as well. So we both got a midnight
0:10:36MacBook Air in our lives now. Well look at us. Mm-hmm. Fingerprint pals. Yeah the midnight.
0:10:44Midnight, look here's the thing I'll start with that right. I think it's the best color.
0:10:49Yeah oh yeah. So I wanted it. Yeah yeah and does it show you does it show fingerprints?
0:10:55Yeah, it absolutely does. I don't care that my old black MacBook showed fingerprints, too
0:11:01I don't care it is different from all the other Mac laptops. It looks different. It looks really nice
0:11:07I like it when it looks black and I just had this happen in my house where I showed it to Lauren and I said
0:11:12I said look it's actually blue, but it looks black and she's like it just is black like okay
0:11:17But I'm telling you and she's like no, it's just black
0:11:19I'm like, alright
0:11:19so I lay it down and then it's like the next day and the light is different coming into the room and all that and
0:11:24And she's sitting on the couch looking at the coffee table
0:11:27where it's sitting and she goes, "Oh, it is blue."
0:11:29- Yeah. - Like, yep.
0:11:30That's the color of this Mac. - I like that.
0:11:32- This MacBook Air is that it's black
0:11:34until you realize that it's actually blue,
0:11:37but only a little bit.
0:11:38It's yeah, it looks great. - Until it's black again.
0:11:39- And when it's open and it's just all the whole dark,
0:11:42the dark keys and the dark surface and the dark screen
0:11:45and the dark bezels, like, it looks really nice.
0:11:48I like it a lot.
0:11:50- So the one that Apple sent me
0:11:53was the 8GB of RAM model and I was thinking this was going to be potentially problematic
0:12:01because I had some issues with the original MacBook Pro and it had 16GB of RAM and it
0:12:09ran out of memory a lot. I think I was talking about that at the time. But my iMac never
0:12:15did it but I thought maybe this would and I didn't have any issues with that at all.
0:12:21I expect that the swap was doing its job pretty well.
0:12:25Because I was using a variety of apps, like open all the time.
0:12:28I have tons of apps open, I should leave them open, why not leave them open.
0:12:31It was doing a good enough job but it was maxing out I could see.
0:12:35And so for mine I got 24GB of RAM in my MacBook Air because I just want to not think about
0:12:41it for years.
0:12:42It's just going to have what it has and it's going to run its course.
0:12:47Now for me with this computer, I am doing the majority of my work on it.
0:12:54So we're talking just general work stuff, email, calendars, notes, research, I do stuff
0:13:02with Photoshop, Pixelmator, all of the stuff that's basically everything that I may possibly
0:13:07do that isn't recording or editing a podcast will be done on MacBook Air.
0:13:13It's previously been done on my Macbook Pro and then my iMac was my recording and editing computer.
0:13:19And I thought, "I'm just going to go head first into this Macbook Air and just see what it can
0:13:25handle." I couldn't tell any difference between it and my Macbook Pro. I just couldn't. If I wanted
0:13:31to do something audio editing wise, sure I'd see the difference. But I don't do anything there.
0:13:36Like if I want to start crunching on a file and converting an MP3 or whatever, I'm going to see it
0:13:41But I'm not doing any of that here.
0:13:43And so where I'm usually using this computer for the vast majority of its time
0:13:48is plugged into my studio display.
0:13:50So the computer's closed, studio display is on, and I'm doing my thing.
0:13:55When I use it as a laptop, there are a few things that I notice that are different.
0:14:00One, the biggest thing for me is the screen brightness.
0:14:04Really notice that compared to my MacBook Pro.
0:14:07I don't notice the ProMotion very much.
0:14:09I don't really know how well that is possible to see on a MacBook Pro anyway.
0:14:15I know at first it was a bit shaky as to where you'd actually see the higher refresh rate on a Mac.
0:14:21I'd see it on my iPhone still and I love it on my iPhone.
0:14:24I think I've found that the bigger a display gets, maybe the less visible that becomes.
0:14:30I don't know why, but that seems to have been a thing for me.
0:14:33But the brightness is where I definitely see a huge difference.
0:14:37the MacBook Air just can't get to what the MacBook Pro can.
0:14:40- No, it's half, I mean, it's half.
0:14:42Somebody was saying on,
0:14:43I don't even remember what podcast this was,
0:14:45that they like to work outside and the MacBook Pro,
0:14:50like you can work outside and see everything clearly
0:14:54because it goes so bright.
0:14:56And the MacBook Air, I have not had a problem with it,
0:14:58but again, this is the thing of like,
0:15:00if you always use a MacBook Air,
0:15:02you internalize what the brightness of the MacBook Air is
0:15:04and you just think,
0:15:05"Oh, well, this is how bright laptops get."
0:15:06And then you use the MacBook Pro and you realize,
0:15:09oh no, no, this is twice as bright as that one is.
0:15:14And in certain circumstances,
0:15:15you can just crank up the brightness
0:15:16and blast away any of the glare that's coming from the sun
0:15:20and bouncing off objects while you're outside.
0:15:23And it just, I was thinking about this the other day
0:15:26when it might've been when we were talking
0:15:29about the MacBook Air compared to the MacBook Pro.
0:15:31And I thought we could talk about the chips
0:15:34and we can talk about the slots and the ports.
0:15:37But I think the real, like, most important difference
0:15:42between them is the screen, right?
0:15:45Because of the brightness and the pro motion.
0:15:47Like, it is the biggest upgrade you get
0:15:50when you go from the Air to the Pro.
0:15:52The big pros, not the 13, 'cause don't get that one.
0:15:56- Yeah, before you start
0:15:57with all the configurations available.
0:15:59But like, it's the thing that every owner's gonna see, right?
0:16:04is the screen, no matter what configuration you go for.
0:16:07- And you know, chip differences are gonna be
0:16:09speed at certain tasks,
0:16:12and the port differences are convenience,
0:16:13and they're real.
0:16:14I'm not saying that those aren't differences,
0:16:16I'm just saying you're staring at the screen all the time,
0:16:19and on the Pro systems, you are getting it.
0:16:21I mean, we're talking about the Air here, not the Pro,
0:16:22but just saying, I don't miss the ProMotion
0:16:25and the brightness, but they are real,
0:16:28they do make a difference, and they're not on the Air,
0:16:31and that's one of the things you give up
0:16:32to get the smaller, lighter, cheaper laptop.
0:16:35- So one of the biggest things for me,
0:16:38I think it was actually the biggest thing
0:16:40as to why I decided I wanted to have one of these machines,
0:16:44is how good it is at being a laptop.
0:16:48It is the most laptop-y laptop I've ever used
0:16:51in its lightness, its thinness.
0:16:54Like I take my laptop home with me every day
0:16:58and bring it back to the studio every day.
0:17:00I do it so I always have a Mac
0:17:01where my computer, if I ever need it at home,
0:17:04sometimes I do, sometimes something might happen.
0:17:07I have that kind of job where it could be 10 p.m. at night
0:17:09and someone needs me for something,
0:17:10and the easiest thing for me to do is grab my laptop.
0:17:13So I like to just have it with me.
0:17:15And I could not get over,
0:17:17during the couple of weeks that I was using it,
0:17:20just how much easier it is to pick it up and move it around.
0:17:23And this sounds like such a simple kind of glib kind of thing
0:17:28and why is this important?
0:17:29Well, it's a laptop, it's meant to be moved.
0:17:33And the fact of just how much thinner and lighter it was
0:17:37than the MacBook Pro that I was using,
0:17:39it just made a noticeable,
0:17:43like positive difference every single day for me.
0:17:46Like it is way closer to an iPad
0:17:49in the way it feels in your hands,
0:17:52when closed especially than a Mac.
0:17:55Especially like if you have like an iPad
0:17:56and a Magic keyboard, like 12.9 inch iPad
0:17:59and the magic people.
0:18:00It's basically the same.
0:18:01And that was just an incredible thing for me.
0:18:04And it was just like, right, okay,
0:18:06I know I want this to be my daily computer
0:18:10because it's just doing what I want,
0:18:13everything I want it to do from a power perspective,
0:18:15from a capability perspective,
0:18:16but in a much better form factor for what I need.
0:18:20So I'm now living the two-laptop lifestyle
0:18:24here in the studio.
0:18:26So I now am using a MacBook Air,
0:18:29I've got one terabyte SSD, 24 gigabytes of RAM,
0:18:32that's my daily driver laptop.
0:18:34My MacBook Pro is taking the spot of my M1 iMac.
0:18:39I did this today, I switched it all over today.
0:18:43So I now have MacBook Pro plugged into two displays.
0:18:47I have a Dell display that I've used for ages on the side,
0:18:50which is where I put all my audio hijack stuff.
0:18:52So it's always visible when I'm recording.
0:18:54all the recording tools are over there,
0:18:56and I can just look at them and I can see the time,
0:18:58I can see everything's running, it's always there.
0:19:00And then I have the LG monitor that I used to use
0:19:04before my studio display.
0:19:06This LG monitor is way too big.
0:19:08It's like 32 inches, it's way too big,
0:19:11it's way too close to me here,
0:19:13but I wanna test all of this out
0:19:15before I even consider getting another studio display.
0:19:19- Sure.
0:19:20- And considering the fact that we're coming up to September,
0:19:23which is always an expensive time.
0:19:25I don't want to be buying another studio to spare right now.
0:19:27So I'm just going to live with this for a while
0:19:28and see how I feel.
0:19:30Because also I've had really inconsistent experiences
0:19:34of laptops plugged in all the time, right?
0:19:36That like, do they connect?
0:19:37Do they not connect?
0:19:38So I've got it running.
0:19:39Also the desk is all not right.
0:19:41I need to completely reorganize my desk
0:19:44to deal with this different layout.
0:19:46And like, I just have to,
0:19:47the laptop is just sitting in front of me
0:19:49on a little stand that I used to put my iMac
0:19:53on top of, right?
0:19:54So it would be your eye height, but it's like super ugly.
0:19:56There's cables coming out of it.
0:19:57It's like, I don't like it.
0:19:58I have one of those 12 South book stand things,
0:20:02whatever they call it.
0:20:03- Book ark?
0:20:04- Book ark, yeah.
0:20:05But I just don't have anywhere to put that yet.
0:20:07It's like, I've got to redo this entire desk,
0:20:09but I'm not doing that until I'm sure of this.
0:20:12Now, the reason I've done this,
0:20:14and also I will say my desk does not feel as happy
0:20:17as a place to be.
0:20:18We've got that beautiful yellow computer looking at me.
0:20:20I will say that.
0:20:21I sat down to record today Jason and it was like oh this feels sad like this is ugly lg
0:20:27like it's not ugly it's fine it's like all black right the monitors like all the bezels are black
0:20:32and it just doesn't feel as colorful in here but now I will be able to benefit from having an M1
0:20:39max powered machine and I know it's going to be ripping through anything that I need to do
0:20:46processing wise. I will say there is this other part of it which is like well not
0:20:50actually editing as many podcasts as I used to but that's like a whole other
0:20:54thing to think about for a future time. So the plan is to think about I'm
0:21:00going to try this out for a couple of weeks I think of these two laptops where
0:21:02the MacBook Pro is essentially sitting here as an Mac studio right that's kind
0:21:09of how I'm treating it. But my kind of future that I imagine is
0:21:16If I need to travel for work and record I will just take the MacBook Pro
0:21:21because I know it is all ready and all set up with the most power possible to
0:21:26get my podcast recording done. Which you may think that sounds
0:21:30counterintuitive if you're taking a heavier laptop with you while you're
0:21:32traveling but when I'm traveling say across the Atlantic my backpacks already
0:21:37too heavy with all other kinds of stuff I've got in it anyway so I'll just take the
0:21:40MacBook Pro. But we'll see my M1 iMac it's gonna stay here for a little bit
0:21:45until I finally made this decision,
0:21:47and then it's gonna go home,
0:21:49and it's gonna be a beautiful family home computer.
0:21:52- Yay.
0:21:52You're gonna get to do what Apple does
0:21:54in all of its promo shots,
0:21:55which is put a lovingly detailed home setup with an iMac,
0:22:00a nice yellow iMac in the center of it.
0:22:02- And it could be,
0:22:03I was originally thinking,
0:22:05"Oh, I don't wanna have a kitchen computer,"
0:22:08but I actually think
0:22:09it could be a really nice kitchen computer,
0:22:11'cause I was thinking,
0:22:12"Maybe we'd want a small television screen in the kitchen,
0:22:15and this could also be that, right?
0:22:16So maybe, we'll see how that goes in the future for me.
0:22:19But yeah, I'm just really struck by
0:22:24how excellent a computer the MacBook Air is.
0:22:27I just think it's fantastic.
0:22:30I think it's, for me, easily taking the crown again
0:22:34of the best laptop Apple makes,
0:22:36'cause it's just the right balance of everything, I think.
0:22:41I think it's fantastic.
0:22:43- I think you're right.
0:22:44I saw a note go by on Twitter this weekend
0:22:47from Walt Mossberg, retired, great tech reviewer
0:22:52for many years of "Wall Street Journal"
0:22:53and all things D and all of that.
0:22:56And he said, it drives him crazy
0:23:00that there are all of these reviews of the MacBook Air
0:23:05that talk about power or a lack of power
0:23:09or these incredibly complicated use cases for it
0:23:11when the truth is 99% of people don't use that much power.
0:23:16And I think the truth is, the real truth is
0:23:19that for the last decade,
0:23:21most computers had enough power
0:23:23to serve 90% of the needs of people.
0:23:26I think at this point, the bar has been raised to,
0:23:29and I look back 'cause I was like,
0:23:30"Oh, okay, well, does my review pass the test?"
0:23:32And my review says 99% of people,
0:23:36the bar has been raised so much now
0:23:39that most people can get along just fine
0:23:41with the MacBook Air.
0:23:43One of the things that struck me about this MacBook Air is,
0:23:46you can't, like there's very little you can't do with it.
0:23:51When you hit the wall, you don't really hit the wall,
0:23:55you just slow down and it takes you a while
0:23:58to reach the wall.
0:23:59And that's another thing that's really notable
0:24:01about how much power is in even the MacBook Air.
0:24:04And the M1 MacBook Air is this case too.
0:24:08But now with the M2, even more with like 8K video
0:24:12and different kinds of 4K video,
0:24:13like what you're really giving up is time.
0:24:16I'm sure there are things that require
0:24:18a certain number of like ports.
0:24:19And like, I'm sure you can find those edge cases,
0:24:21but we've reached the point now
0:24:23where you would have to work really hard
0:24:26to find reasons why you absolutely couldn't
0:24:29use a MacBook Air to do your job,
0:24:31whatever your job is, literally whatever your job is.
0:24:34And I'm not saying those edge cases aren't there.
0:24:36And I'm not saying that our listeners
0:24:37aren't the edge cases,
0:24:38'cause our listeners probably are the edge cases,
0:24:40but we've gone from it being like,
0:24:43when it started the computer for 50% of people,
0:24:46to now I think it's the computer for 99% of people.
0:24:49And that if you wanna go,
0:24:50this is why I was saying about the MacBook Pro,
0:24:52if you wanna go to the MacBook Pro,
0:24:54go for the size, go for the ports, go for the screen,
0:24:57or go for the fact that it's so fast,
0:25:00you'll be able to do that work faster
0:25:02and that matters to you.
0:25:03But like you traveling internationally with a MacBook Air,
0:25:07There's nothing that you're going to say, "Oh, I can't do this."
0:25:11You might say, "Oh, this is slow.
0:25:14I'm going to have to wait an extra 10 minutes for this thing to finish."
0:25:17But that's it. It's really remarkable.
0:25:19And it depends on the type.
0:25:22Basically, I'm giving myself the ability to take either of these laptops if I was traveling.
0:25:26So for WWDC, for example, I need speed.
0:25:31I've got to get things done as quickly as possible.
0:25:34but like a regular trip where I might record a show or two
0:25:37while I'm traveling, I'll just take my, okay.
0:25:40So, but I'm gonna be giving myself the flexibility
0:25:42to make the right choice.
0:25:44- Even what speed you need,
0:25:45like if you're not working in 4K video,
0:25:49it will have all the speed you need, it really will.
0:25:52It's that super high end stuff
0:25:55where you're really gonna have it.
0:25:56Or if you're doing like, I mean,
0:25:57my example is always isotope.
0:25:59And I think this goes back to Walt saying about
0:26:01why do all the reviewers talk about these things?
0:26:03To be fair, Apple is also to blame here
0:26:04because Apple brings out a low end MacBook Air,
0:26:08by definition the low end of their product,
0:26:10their laptop line, and says, "Let's talk about 8K video."
0:26:14- Yeah. - Like, really?
0:26:15- And puts that stuff in the chip, right?
0:26:17The video decoding and coding stuff.
0:26:18- Right, and one of the reasons we do that
0:26:21is because we're trying to find the places
0:26:22where this thing falls down.
0:26:23'Cause the fact is, we are all just out there
0:26:25on the edge of the 99% trying to find some use case
0:26:29that it doesn't work.
0:26:29So for me, it's iZotope, and their D Reverb and D Noise
0:26:33plugins and yeah, so the reason I have a Mac studio
0:26:36is because I've got stuff that takes,
0:26:39a job that takes 30 minutes on the MacBook Air
0:26:43and takes 15 minutes on the Mac studio.
0:26:45And for me, sitting there watching the progress bar
0:26:47or going off and doing something else
0:26:50and then coming back and doing the next file,
0:26:51which is another half hour, right?
0:26:53It's better to do that in 10 or 15 minutes,
0:26:55but I could still do it.
0:26:57And that's the most extreme for me that I really get
0:26:59is that kind of stuff.
0:27:01For most stuff, it's the difference between,
0:27:03as I did with my testing, right?
0:27:04It's the difference between,
0:27:05"Oh, that job took a minute 20 instead of a minute 10."
0:27:09Which is, I mean, yeah, it's slower, okay,
0:27:12but not so you'd notice really.
0:27:15And that's what I mean about,
0:27:16I think you could travel with confidence
0:27:18for all that you do with a MacBook Air.
0:27:21You might have to, again,
0:27:22you might have to get like a hub or something, right?
0:27:24There are these issues with the fact
0:27:25that it's only got the two ports,
0:27:27but, and a card reader, if you're doing stuff
0:27:30where you're pulling things off of an SD recorder
0:27:32and all that, there are reasons to get a MacBook Pro.
0:27:34I'm not saying there aren't.
0:27:35I'm just saying that if all you have is a MacBook Air,
0:27:38you could do everything.
0:27:40- I agree. - You really could.
0:27:42- We'll see.
0:27:43- And maybe you will.
0:27:44Also, by the way, I'm gonna give you a,
0:27:46I'm not, this is not a real assignment,
0:27:47but I'm gonna give you a fake assignment,
0:27:50which is to say, you could,
0:27:52now you can replace your streaming PC as well,
0:27:54because, I mean, you probably can't,
0:27:56but I will say OBS just went into beta
0:28:00with their Apple Silicon version
0:28:02that also integrates all of those code changes
0:28:05that the Apple engineers made
0:28:06so that they're using the right APIs
0:28:08for window capture and stuff like that.
0:28:12So I haven't seen any reports about how good this thing is,
0:28:16but I have at least hope
0:28:18that OBS may actually be decent on the Mac again.
0:28:22So something to watch,
0:28:23'cause I know that's a tool that you use for live streaming.
0:28:27- Yeah, I mean, OBS can still be fine,
0:28:29but this is like a bunch of input output stuff
0:28:31that I have way more control of.
0:28:33- I get it.
0:28:34I mean, having a piece,
0:28:35also what's the difference between having set it up
0:28:36and having to set it up?
0:28:37Like it may be that we're reaching a point
0:28:39where somebody like you looks at and goes,
0:28:41"I don't really need to buy a PC, I can get by."
0:28:44But you already have it.
0:28:45So it's fine.
0:28:46I have managed to never go down that path
0:28:49and I never will because I've got other options
0:28:54but it's nice that OBS is kind of,
0:28:56it seems to have found the plot again on the Mac
0:28:59with Apple Silicon and the new stuff
0:29:02that for those who don't remember,
0:29:04there was a GitHub code contribution from Apple.
0:29:08I think listed as from Apple,
0:29:11but it is using the right APIs on macOS for window capture
0:29:16that it previously wasn't using.
0:29:19It's the screen capture kit API.
0:29:22And so that's encouraging
0:29:25that that app, which is vital for so many people
0:29:29who do video streams, is actually kind of up to speed,
0:29:33or at least theoretically up to speed on macOS,
0:29:35again, with Apple Silicon and Screen Capture Kit support.
0:29:38- This episode is brought to you by Sourcegraph.
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0:31:20Rumour round up!
0:31:22Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple is currently preparing and recording the September event,
0:31:28confirming that it will be a continuation of pre-recorded events.
0:31:32This event will feature the iPhone 14 and new Apple Watches with the plan for an October
0:31:37event for new iPads and Macs.
0:31:41there any doubt in your mind that there would be an in-person, like any doubt in your mind
0:31:46about what this event was going to be from in-person, not in-person?
0:31:49Well, at some point, yes. At some point, I thought that they might do this after they
0:31:53did WWDC with the in-person component. I thought that maybe they would feel like they could
0:31:57invite people, but as we've detailed here, the trajectory of the pandemic and the new
0:32:02strains that are more infectious and easily transmittable and like right now, I'm not
0:32:10that surprised that they might do this.
0:32:12I still am thinking it's possible they will do
0:32:15an in-person media event of some kind.
0:32:18- They could do what they did at WWDC,
0:32:20what you just mentioned. - They could.
0:32:21- They could just do the same thing.
0:32:22- They could invite the media and have a small media group
0:32:25and have us sit outside and then do maybe even
0:32:28in Cafe Max or some other kind of like open air location
0:32:31or masked inside something like the Steve Jobs Theater,
0:32:34have the hands-on area.
0:32:35'Cause that would be the one thing
0:32:36that I would still put out there,
0:32:38is this is gonna be a produced show, it absolutely is.
0:32:41Are they gonna have an in-person component?
0:32:43Maybe, but if so, it's gonna be
0:32:45'cause they really want members of the press
0:32:46to come and get their hands on the new hardware.
0:32:48And it's great when you can do that.
0:32:51It's also possible that they'll do something hybrid
0:32:54where they do this event, but they also schedule briefings
0:32:56and maybe some of us in the East and West Coast
0:32:59will get invited to be in New York or Cupertino
0:33:02and get our hands on that way.
0:33:03And you could do that without having a big crowd.
0:33:06So I think there are options there for them to do that.
0:33:09That's what I'm gonna keep watching,
0:33:11but it's not surprising to think
0:33:13that most of this stuff is gonna be,
0:33:14if not all, prerecorded.
0:33:16- So speaking of new iPads,
0:33:19Mac Otakara is reporting from supply chain sources
0:33:23that the new iPad Pro would feature a quote,
0:33:26four pin connector on the top and bottom edges.
0:33:30- Hmm, hmm.
0:33:32- MagSafe?
0:33:33- I think Smart Connector.
0:33:36That's what I think.
0:33:37I think smart connector, although MagSafe
0:33:38and smart connector are, could be related.
0:33:41I mean, MagSafe is in, it's a little different,
0:33:45but like smart connector can do power transfer,
0:33:47at least at a low level, not a high level, but a low level.
0:33:50Four pin connector on top and bottom edges reads to me
0:33:54like they want to do, this might be a new Apple pencil
0:33:59or it might be the same Apple pencil in a new location.
0:34:02And this might also be for connecting to, you know,
0:34:05a new keyboard and other accessories that way, maybe.
0:34:09Top and bottom seems weird to me
0:34:11because the orientations are exactly the same.
0:34:13- Well, this is why I don't think smart keyboard,
0:34:16like, because, okay, so here's the problem.
0:34:19What's top and what's bottom?
0:34:21As described to the person who heard this,
0:34:26this is where it becomes complicated.
0:34:27- I've been thinking you could do it
0:34:29on two of the side edges
0:34:33so that you can have different orientations
0:34:36that use those things.
0:34:38We're gonna need more information here,
0:34:39but it feels like this is accessory-based
0:34:42and that this is probably smart connector-y in some way.
0:34:46But it's, yeah, I hesitate to go down this path too much
0:34:49because it's so vague and I'm not sure what I'm picturing
0:34:53is essentially the smart connector moved to the sides
0:34:57in place of where the Apple Pencil thing was
0:35:00instead of on the back where it is now.
0:35:02The disadvantage of it being on the back,
0:35:03the advantage of being on the back
0:35:04is that you can put a big thing back there
0:35:06that includes wired in the connections
0:35:09and that's what the smart keyboard does.
0:35:11The disadvantage of it is you have to have
0:35:13a thing back there.
0:35:14Whereas, you know, there are a lot of stands
0:35:17that don't necessarily have a full cover
0:35:19on the back of an iPad.
0:35:21You get access to it on the side.
0:35:23So I could see them moving it,
0:35:26but they would need to redesign everything
0:35:29if they did that.
0:35:30'Cause the back connector feels very much like,
0:35:33Apple put it there as a part of designing the accessory.
0:35:36Like it was made for the accessory.
0:35:39So I don't know.
0:35:40I mean, it's a weird thing,
0:35:42but this is right in line with,
0:35:44I think what we see from Apple with this stuff,
0:35:46which is they change these kind of proprietary things
0:35:50that are on iPads.
0:35:51They change kind of at their own whim
0:35:54if they have a good accessory story that goes around it.
0:35:57And I'm not quite sure what that accessory story is here.
0:36:00and whether it's a redesigned smart keyboard
0:36:02or it's something with the Apple Pencil
0:36:04or it's something completely different,
0:36:06but are they gonna do a kind of like a dock
0:36:09or a desktop-y thing?
0:36:11'Cause now there's external display support.
0:36:14Is it related to charging?
0:36:16I don't know.
0:36:17It's interesting, but so vague.
0:36:19- I don't know about the Magic Keyboard question.
0:36:23I think that design is pretty good
0:36:28and I would be surprised if they iterated on their design after two years.
0:36:35Just like the fundamental design of how the thing works.
0:36:39Because if now the connector is on the top or the bottom, or any of the sides say, that's
0:36:47a new design for the Magic Keyboard.
0:36:50Now it's completely different if it's no longer on the back.
0:36:53So this is why I'm kind of more inclined to think
0:36:57this is some kind of new accessory connector,
0:37:00which also does MagSafe charging.
0:37:03Like that's why I'm leaning on that.
0:37:05I think that there could,
0:37:07or some other accessory or whatever,
0:37:09but the way that the Apple Pencil charges
0:37:12and the way that the Magic Cube
0:37:14will just fundamentally works,
0:37:16I just think those two things
0:37:17feel pretty set to me for a while.
0:37:21- I sort of agree with you,
0:37:22but I'm gonna just make the counterpoint here,
0:37:23which is if Apple thinks that there's a better way
0:37:26to do the smart keyboard, I mean, the magic keyboard
0:37:29that they were not able to do before,
0:37:32they're like, oh yeah, well, you know,
0:37:33we had to cantilever it over and all of that.
0:37:36And the reason they do that is for weight
0:37:37more than anything else.
0:37:38But like, if they think there's a new way to do it,
0:37:40it's not beyond them at all to just say,
0:37:42oh, we've got a new design,
0:37:43so we want the pins to be here.
0:37:46To the designers and the designers are like,
0:37:49all right, okay, I guess we'll do that.
0:37:51So I wouldn't put it past them, but you're right.
0:37:53It is a big step to say,
0:37:54we're gonna change the pencil design,
0:37:55or we're gonna change the Magic Keyboard design.
0:37:58And there have been rumors there
0:37:59about some sort of charging thing.
0:38:01And as the iPad and Mac become more cousins
0:38:06than the iPad and the iPhone, right?
0:38:09Where the iPad is slowly drifting closer to the Mac
0:38:12and away from the iPhone, I feel like.
0:38:15Even though they're based on the same operating system,
0:38:16they're, you know, that's part of the iPad OS thing,
0:38:19as it allows it to drift toward the Mac.
0:38:22And given that MagSafe came back to the Mac,
0:38:25and it's on the iPhone too,
0:38:26but like if you think about MagSafe in Mac terms,
0:38:29it could be, right?
0:38:31It could literally be MagSafe like on the Mac
0:38:36at the bottom and top of the iPad
0:38:39so that you can just pop on a MagSafe connector
0:38:42and charge it, yeah.
0:38:44- Because what I've been thinking about on that one was like-
0:38:48And I just want me, let me be clear here.
0:38:50I think that's the change in orientation you need to have
0:38:54in order to think about MagSafe on the iPad
0:38:56is don't think about it like MagSafe on the iPhone.
0:38:59Think about it like MagSafe on the Mac.
0:39:01And then you look at it and you go,
0:39:03oh, like maybe even the same connector,
0:39:07but if not something like that
0:39:08where there's like a little blob and you go boop
0:39:10and attach it magnetically and it charges the iPad
0:39:13because if it's good enough for the Mac,
0:39:15why not for the iPad?
0:39:16Not, I'm gonna lay my iPad down flat on a big puck
0:39:21and it's gonna charge, different thing.
0:39:23- 'Cause that's why I think it could be MagSafe
0:39:25because it's on the two sides.
0:39:26So then it's even better, right?
0:39:28Where they'd be like, oh, if you want it to charge by USB,
0:39:30you've gotta make sure it's on the,
0:39:32but now with MagSafe, you could just be like, whatever.
0:39:35You just do it, you just do it.
0:39:36It's two different places, right?
0:39:37Like, I don't know, we'll find out.
0:39:40I'm intrigued by it.
0:39:40I'm happy to hear they're doing something though
0:39:43because it means there's maybe an interesting story to tell.
0:39:46- Yeah, yeah, always good to have a,
0:39:48never bet against Apple having an interesting
0:39:50accessory story to tell, especially with an iPad, right?
0:39:53The whole platform from the beginning has been
0:39:56not just about the iPad,
0:39:57but about what accessories they put with it,
0:39:59for logical reasons, right?
0:40:00Because the iPad is, it changes and modifies itself
0:40:03based on what accessories you attach to it.
0:40:05So it's part of the iPad story is the accessories.
0:40:09- Going back to Mark Gurman,
0:40:10Mark is reporting that Apple has two new HomePod products
0:40:14in the works.
0:40:15a new high-end HomePod and an updated HomePod mini. As previously reported, this new high-end
0:40:23HomePod will run the same S8 chip of the future Apple Watch Series 8 and will be closer in
0:40:29terms of size and audio performance to the original HomePod rather than the mini version.
0:40:35Fine. The more interesting part of the report is, there are currently "at least four new
0:40:41smart home devices in its labs but not all will see the light of day. Two of
0:40:47these are a kitchen focused, so there's two, one is a kitchen focused device that
0:40:52is a combo of a speaker and an iPad like screen. Another is a living room device
0:40:57that combines an Apple TV camera and a home pod. Basically my two dream devices.
0:41:03Mm-hmm yeah these and we've talked about them both on upgrade in detail but the
0:41:07idea is one is like an Amazon echo except it's from Apple it's a home pod
0:41:11and an iPad kind of style screen although whether it would run iPad OS or
0:41:15maybe tv OS and it would presumably have a camera and it would be a FaceTime
0:41:20device so a Siri and FaceTime kind of thing in the kitchen that sort of thing
0:41:27and then the other one is the the Apple TV HomePod combo soundbar whatever thing
0:41:33that also does FaceTime, which I'm really interested in that. Like, I agree with you,
0:41:41these are both pretty interesting and I might want both of these. I think, though, that
0:41:51what I really am curious about is how Apple is testing these and trying them out, because
0:41:56it's all in the details, right? I know it's always all in the details. But if you just
0:42:00tell me with no not a lot of details oh Apple's gonna do a thing that you put by
0:42:04your TV and it's got a camera and it's a sound bar and it's an Apple TV and you
0:42:08attach it and it does all those things and it's great it's like a home pod plus
0:42:11Apple TV plus FaceTime camera all together I would say great right but
0:42:16like it's all about the details what does it look like where does it fit
0:42:19what are its features what is it omitting that it's gonna disappoint me
0:42:21like could I could I actually use it I don't know and the kitchen one is the
0:42:25same way like how do you interact with it is it like there's an Apple TV in
0:42:28your kitchen? Or is it like there's an iPad in your kitchen? And you know, how
0:42:32much of it is navigated by voice and how much of it is navigated by touch? Because
0:42:36the Amazon thing I've got in my kitchen, I almost never touch. And when I do, it's
0:42:41because something's gone horribly wrong and I need to bring down the menu or
0:42:45cancel something or go to the settings or something like that. So that's, those
0:42:50are all the questions I've got as well. Okay, great. Mark's talked about these
0:42:54before, they're still floating out there. They're still intriguing. I would like
0:42:59Apple to do both of them because I feel like there's something there, but it may
0:43:04be that, you know, if they don't come to pass it may be because Apple goes
0:43:09through them and goes, "Oh, this just isn't good enough," or "It doesn't make
0:43:13enough sense," but I'm glad that they're investigating them because I think
0:43:17both of them have a lot of potential given all of the features Apple already
0:43:21has in its ecosystem, all the different component parts exist for these
0:43:24products. They just have to put it together in an interesting way that is in a product
0:43:28that is something they could actually sell for a reasonable price so that people actually
0:43:31buy it.
0:43:32Mark believes that at least one of these products would launch by the end of 2023 or early 2024.
0:43:39Yeah, don't get, you know, don't put away some money for this for Christmas. It's not
0:43:43gonna happen. 2023 maybe.
0:43:47And Ming-Chi Kuo's released an updated research note for Apple's upcoming headset. Kuo currently
0:43:52expects that Apple will hold an event in January of 2023 to announce the device. I assume this
0:43:58is based on like when manufacture is planned.
0:44:03Yeah.
0:44:04I don't know, right? This is one of those things where like we wonder like, Kuo's...
0:44:09How does he know?
0:44:10Kuo knows like what's going on on the supply chain. I don't know if that could necessarily
0:44:14tell you when an event's gonna be, but there you go. Guess around that timeframe. And Kuo
0:44:21also expects it to cost now between 2000 to $2,500.
0:44:26That's cheaper than we've heard in the past.
0:44:29- Yeah.
0:44:30- Because of this, it would be a niche device
0:44:31and there is expectations for about one and a half million
0:44:36of them to be shipped in 2023.
0:44:38- Oh boy.
0:44:40That's, you know, that's 3 billion in revenue.
0:44:44For wearables, home and accessories, I guess.
0:44:48Put it, slide it in there.
0:44:50niche device. I think we've all expected this for a little while now. And it'll be interesting
0:44:54when this gets announced that for the mainstream media to react and say, Oh my God, I can't
0:44:58believe it. But like, I think it's been clear that Apple's goal with this product is to
0:45:01make something that's up to their standards and they're a little less concerned about
0:45:05the price. And what's interesting is when you see what Meta is doing, you realize they're
0:45:08doing the same thing, right? Which is they raised the price on their low end headset,
0:45:12but they're also working on a high end headset. Cause I think Apple at this point is sort
0:45:17of like, we need to set the bar about where we think that this is a usable product. And
0:45:21then I would assume over time, as the product line goes along, it will come down in price,
0:45:28or at least versions of it will come down in price. Because I think, you know, I know
0:45:32we talk about Apple making a lot of money and not going too far down market, but a $2,000
0:45:36headset, $2,500 headset is probably too much to spur this along. But you start there. And
0:45:45I think you imagine that the supply chain and the parts and all that and your knowledge
0:45:50about it and what sensors you thought were necessary that weren't and all that kind of
0:45:54like leads you down a path where a year or two after that you've got a split product
0:45:58line with a couple different models, one of which is more affordable and you go from there.
0:46:03But yeah, nobody get their hopes up for a $500 Apple headset because that's not going
0:46:07to happen.
0:46:08David: This feels somewhat like a learning from the Apple Watch to me kind of like you
0:46:13You can't launch a product and expect it to be the iPhone.
0:46:16It's just not going to happen.
0:46:19Like where you launch this thing and it's just like everyone wants it and it blows the
0:46:23doors off immediately and everyone's losing their minds.
0:46:26What's more likely is you launch a product that is hard to get out there so it's more
0:46:31expensive and then you work out a little bit more of the story based upon how people use
0:46:37it, what developers are adopting it, what developers are doing with it.
0:46:41So then for revision 2, revision 3, you've got a much more concise understanding, right?
0:46:45Because Apple Watch initially, fashion device that can unlock doors for you physically in
0:46:50hotels and it's going to do everything and you're going to talk to your friends by sending
0:46:55them pictures of fish and like all that kind of stuff.
0:46:57And then a couple of versions later it's like, hey, this is a health and fitness device that
0:47:01can also read to you text messages.
0:47:03And you know what?
0:47:04When they work that out, then they started selling way more of them.
0:47:07So I expect this to be somewhat similar and Apple's preparing for that upfront maybe?
0:47:14Because you know, I know this 1.5 million sounds like a lot.
0:47:17It's not a lot for Apple.
0:47:18I think there's a lesson here that's almost maybe like a lesson from the Newton, which
0:47:22is better to, if it's not a good experience below a certain price, don't come out with
0:47:29a bad experience.
0:47:31Like we shipped a lot of it, we sold a lot of them, but everybody hated it, is not something
0:47:35that Apple wants to do strategically, right?
0:47:37was really excited and they spent five, we got the price down to $900 and we got a lot
0:47:41more people to buy it. But because we had to cut it in so many different ways, the experience
0:47:46was bad. I honestly think that Apple's strategy with this product has always been that there
0:47:51is a certain level below which they won't go because they don't think people will accept
0:47:55it as a good product. And so I think their goal is it's going to be too expensive but
0:48:00good. And then the next step after that has to be how do we get it to be less expensive
0:48:06or more necessary so that people wanna buy it.
0:48:09And I think that's gonna take some time.
0:48:12The risk, the counterargument is something like the HomePod,
0:48:15which was too expensive and even though it was good,
0:48:18people kind of rejected it.
0:48:19But the HomePod was not mission critical for Apple
0:48:23in a way that this is.
0:48:24I think that Apple's gonna be in this for the long haul.
0:48:26If it doesn't sell well upfront, they're not gonna say,
0:48:29"Well, that was it, we're out of the AR business."
0:48:31I think they're in this for years to come.
0:48:33And so the first one is gonna be like them
0:48:35putting down their chips for the first round,
0:48:39but they're in it for the long game.
0:48:40- I also think that this has a potential larger audience
0:48:44than the HomePod ever could as well,
0:48:46like of people that might want something like this
0:48:49because it's interesting to them in some way,
0:48:52where I feel like the HomePod is not so much
0:48:55because it's like, why would I want that
0:48:57when I could just get a Bluetooth speaker?
0:48:59- Yeah.
0:49:00- And there isn't a Bluetooth speaker version
0:49:02of this type of thing.
0:49:04- Exactly, also I'd say, well, I mean,
0:49:07maybe the Bluetooth, that's a bad analogy,
0:49:09but like a meta quest to, or a PSVR or something like that.
0:49:14- That's the Amazon Echo or the Google Home
0:49:19to the HomePod rather than, you know.
0:49:21- That's fair, that's fair.
0:49:22So I think that's gonna be a challenge on their point.
0:49:25You know, in the, David in our discord said
0:49:28they think they're gonna sell one and a half million
0:49:32at that price.
0:49:33- Yeah.
0:49:34- I think Apple, how shall I put this?
0:49:38A hot new Apple product in a new wizzy category
0:49:41that is pricey and so only some people
0:49:44are gonna be able to get it
0:49:45and you can get in on the ground floor
0:49:47for somebody who doesn't really care that it costs $2,000.
0:49:50Like Apple can sell, I really believe Apple could sell
0:49:54a large number of almost anything,
0:49:57especially something that is hot and new and pricey
0:50:01because a lot of Apple's customers don't care about price.
0:50:04They're not price sensitive at all.
0:50:06And so I don't think that's unreasonable
0:50:09to say a million and a half units in a year
0:50:12of the brand new Apple thing.
0:50:14Maybe they'll be off by a little bit,
0:50:16but I'm never gonna underestimate Apple's ability
0:50:19to sell a product like this to the hardest core
0:50:24of its audience who are the least price sensitive.
0:50:26There'll be a hot app and there'll be people
0:50:28talking about it and there'll be some new thing and there'll be videos about like,
0:50:32"Oh, here's this amazing thing that the Apple thing does."
0:50:35That'll drive some sales.
0:50:36And again, we're not talking about 20 million in sales.
0:50:38We're talking about a million and a half.
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0:52:25We'll go back to Mark Gurman again, talk about something different this time.
0:52:30It's kind of a rumor but a little bit not and I wanted to give it a bit more air to
0:52:33breathe which is that iPadOS 16 is likely to be delayed according to Mark Gurman with
0:52:44the main reason for this to be stage manager needing more work before shipping out widely
0:52:49is what Mark is saying that Apple believes.
0:52:52And it is now expected that iPadOS 16 will ship about a month later than the iPhone.
0:52:57I wanted to get your reaction to this.
0:53:00I feel for people like our friend James Thompson, who was quoted by Marc in his newsletter,
0:53:06misspelled his name, saying the problem with this is if you're an iOS developer and you're
0:53:11building a universal app, so it runs on iPad and iPhone, now you're in this position where
0:53:14you're like, "What do I do?" because you're going to have the iPhone out there before
0:53:21the iPad. I feel like, though, what I said earlier about the Apple kind of like
0:53:27taking, wrenching iPadOS further away from the iPhone and pushing it toward
0:53:31the Mac and the iPad hardware as well, I feel like this is in line with that,
0:53:35right? Like Stage Manager is a feature on Mac and iPad, not iPhone. And so in
0:53:40addition to the fact that Stage Manager, I think obviously they want more time
0:53:44with it to do it right, and I think that's good because they could use it.
0:53:49giving that more time.
0:53:51And also like Mac OS already,
0:53:54like James's problem is only magnified by this,
0:53:58but it's not created by this
0:53:59because we have had for years now,
0:54:02all the brand new OS stuff for iOS and iPad OS ship
0:54:05in September and Mac OS not shipped till October.
0:54:08And so for a month,
0:54:09the Mac just can't do any of those things.
0:54:12So all that's different here is that it'll be the Mac
0:54:15and the iPad that can't do those things.
0:54:17And so it's a problem that will be magnified
0:54:20because it's a shared app platform
0:54:23between the iPhone and the iPad.
0:54:25But it honestly doesn't bother me.
0:54:27The new iPads are rumored to come out,
0:54:30a new iPad at least, in October,
0:54:32possibly at the same event.
0:54:33Having a single event with macOS and iPadOS launching
0:54:37and new Macs and new iPads kinda makes sense.
0:54:40- I think it makes sense.
0:54:41- So on a messaging standpoint,
0:54:43and I give Stage Manager more time standpoint,
0:54:46And honestly, giving the iPad a little more love
0:54:50after the crunch to get the iPhone shipped,
0:54:53'cause the iPhone, again, we love the iPad,
0:54:57we love the Mac.
0:54:59Never forget that half of Apple's business is the iPhone,
0:55:01and it will always take priority.
0:55:03So I've become a big fan in the last few years
0:55:06of allowing the iPhone,
0:55:08which is the elephant in the room,
0:55:12allowing the iPhone to do its thing
0:55:15when it needs to do its thing
0:55:17and getting the other products time,
0:55:20some other time to do their thing.
0:55:23Because if you're the iPad and you're like,
0:55:25"But, but, but I have to fix this iPad feature
0:55:26before we ship, I've got to fix it, I got to fix it."
0:55:29And they're like, "No, you must do the iPhone things
0:55:33'cause we got iPhones to sell."
0:55:35And it's the most important feature,
0:55:37your most important product in our company.
0:55:39The iPad will never win that argument, never.
0:55:43So if this opens up a window where sometime, possibly now,
0:55:47they set aside some of the iPad stuff,
0:55:50work on getting the final shipping version,
0:55:52'cause remember they're working way ahead of us,
0:55:54final shipping version of iOS that will go on those phones
0:55:58that are being manufactured now.
0:56:01And then also all the bug cleanup for the version
0:56:03that will be there the day that they ship
0:56:05that you're gonna need to update.
0:56:07And then when they lock that one down,
0:56:10they are then kind of wrapping up the iPad project
0:56:14and doing the work on that.
0:56:16Like kind of makes too much sense.
0:56:19And I think it's actually good for the iPad
0:56:21to get out from under the iPhone crunch.
0:56:24'Cause in the iPhone crunch,
0:56:25only the iPhone should matter and does matter.
0:56:28- So I took this debate straight to James Thompson
0:56:33a couple of days ago.
0:56:35- I don't agree when this is a funny thing to say,
0:56:40considering I'm telling him how he feels.
0:56:43I don't necessarily agree with--
0:56:47- You're feeling it wrong, James, you're feeling it wrong.
0:56:49- The idea that there would be some kind of issue
0:56:51for most developers about iPad coming out at a different time
0:56:54like if what you're doing for your iPad app
0:56:58is supporting stage manager,
0:57:01iPad being delayed is not like your app's not gonna work.
0:57:04Like, this is only an issue if you require iPad OS 16
0:57:07or some iPad OS 16 technology in your application,
0:57:10which most developers wouldn't do
0:57:11because that's a bad business move, right?
0:57:13To be like, this is only gonna run on iPad OS 16 now.
0:57:16Like, under typical circumstances,
0:57:19this app can still just run as normal on an iPad.
0:57:23Like, you have to, as a developer, right,
0:57:25and like, I know that James would do this,
0:57:27confirm that your app's gonna work on 15
0:57:29after you do an update.
0:57:31So, this is no different.
0:57:33- Yeah, I-- - Right?
0:57:35- And here to answer that question is James Notenese.
0:57:37(laughing)
0:57:38- I mean, me and James have already had this conversation
0:57:41and we have decided we disagree.
0:57:43But that's kind of my view on it.
0:57:46I don't know why this would make any specific difference
0:57:49because unless you are a developer
0:57:51that is specifically targeting some iPad OS 16 feature
0:57:55and you're cutting off the rest of your user base
0:57:57on the day that iPad OS comes out,
0:57:58like this isn't gonna make a difference to you
0:58:00because you still have to make sure
0:58:02it's gonna work on iPadOS 15
0:58:04when the iPadOS 16 version comes out anyway.
0:58:08James is saying that I'm wrong,
0:58:09but I don't think I am.
0:58:10So until he can prove otherwise,
0:58:13I'm gonna assume I'm right.
0:58:14- Well, the approach I took is,
0:58:17I feel for developers like James
0:58:19that are put in this situation.
0:58:20From a user in Apple perspective,
0:58:23it kind of makes sense.
0:58:24But the challenge for developers like James
0:58:27is that they're gonna have to make decisions
0:58:29that may impact their users.
0:58:30And I feel bad about that.
0:58:32but I think we're all gonna need to get used to it
0:58:34because this feels kind of like the right thing to do
0:58:37from that larger perspective.
0:58:38And it's on Apple to,
0:58:41and this is I think an important point to make,
0:58:43it's on Apple,
0:58:44if this is an issue for developers like James,
0:58:47Apple should make this not an issue
0:58:48for developers like James.
0:58:50I don't know how, some other way of doing it
0:58:52where he can take his universal app,
0:58:55but it's actually a different version
0:58:56that goes to the iPad than the iPhone.
0:58:59And that it gets split off like a little bit more
0:59:02so that he can, even though it's one app in the App Store,
0:59:05or perhaps across all App Stores, which he doesn't do,
0:59:08'cause he doesn't want to do it that way, and that's fine,
0:59:10but have that ability to sort of like control it.
0:59:13Maybe there are better ideas than that.
0:59:14I just made that up.
0:59:15But the idea of, you know,
0:59:16if Apple's going to do this every time,
0:59:18and it's going to put developers like James in a spot,
0:59:21maybe Apple should find a way to give them tools
0:59:23so that they're not stuck.
0:59:24How about that?
0:59:26- Still not sure how they will be stuck.
0:59:28'Cause I just don't see it.
0:59:29I don't, I can't, I can't, I can't conceive of it.
0:59:31- Right, 'cause unless he's shipping an app
0:59:33that doesn't work on iPad OS 16,
0:59:36if he ships his app on iOS 16 and it goes to iPad OS 16,
0:59:40it'll still work just like the old version
0:59:44because he's maintained compatibility.
0:59:46- Yeah.
0:59:47- But James can't answer himself, so.
0:59:49- It's impossible, unfortunately it's impossible,
0:59:52so we're just gonna have to move on.
0:59:54Do you agree with the idea of delaying it
0:59:57for Sage Manager's sake?
1:00:00- Yeah, like I said, I agree with it
1:00:01because I think getting out from under the iPhone
1:00:04is good for the iPad.
1:00:05That any decision about iPad features
1:00:08when they're crunching to get it on to iPhones
1:00:11is going to, the iPad is gonna lose.
1:00:14So I support this.
1:00:18And the Mac's already there, right?
1:00:20I mean, that's the other part of this,
1:00:21is that the Mac's already on this cycle.
1:00:24And it's annoying in a way, but it's fine.
1:00:27I think it's okay.
1:00:28- But like, do you think that it needs it?
1:00:30Like, do you think that it needs this time
1:00:33for stage managers?
1:00:34Do you find stage manager to be a feature
1:00:36that could do with a lot more work?
1:00:38- I mean, it's a work in progress for sure.
1:00:40It's gonna need more work beyond the fall, right?
1:00:42It's gonna need more work.
1:00:43I hope they can just keep refining it
1:00:46and don't just leave it in its finished state for a year.
1:00:49It's funny because I saw Federico Vittucci
1:00:53tweet about how he felt like it had gotten more buggy lately.
1:00:59And I think he's right.
1:01:01But my feeling about it is that it's also gotten more
1:01:04refined and works better lately,
1:01:08or at least when it works, it works better.
1:01:11So I think they're making progress in doing so.
1:01:14I think they're breaking things that are causing the bugs
1:01:17that Federico sees.
1:01:19There are also some bugs that have been there
1:01:20since the beginning in terms of where windows go,
1:01:23when you do things, it's like,
1:01:25it's what I said a while ago about the Mac,
1:01:28which is the Mac is a system that's got windowing down,
1:01:31has been doing windowing for almost 40 years.
1:01:34And so when you put stage manager on it,
1:01:37the windowing all makes sense.
1:01:39And then on the iPad, it has no windowing to speak of.
1:01:43And there are all these places where you do something
1:01:48that's supposed to spawn a Safari window,
1:01:49and you've got another Safari window
1:01:51in your stage manager view, and it doesn't go there,
1:01:55but instead opens a new Safari window in a different view,
1:01:57and you're like, why would you do that?
1:01:59And the answer is, 'cause it's the iPad
1:02:01and it doesn't have that infrastructure around it.
1:02:03So, they got a lot of work to do.
1:02:06I feel like they're making some interface improvements,
1:02:08like adding features, but Federico's right,
1:02:11it's also really buggy.
1:02:12So, the more time it has for them to grind away on it,
1:02:16the better.
1:02:17I find it funny, Mark Gurman hates Stage Manager.
1:02:20- Yeah, he really does.
1:02:22- He really hates it.
1:02:23In his newsletter, he complains about it all the time.
1:02:25And the piece of evidence that he gives
1:02:27that I find the most baffling is he says,
1:02:30"Even Apple knows Stage Manager sucks
1:02:32because they have a button in Control Center
1:02:35to turn it on and off."
1:02:37- No. - It's like Mark.
1:02:38No, no, it's a mode, it's great.
1:02:41The reason that it's like that is because most iPad users
1:02:45won't want to use Stage Manager.
1:02:47They are used to single window mode
1:02:49and they're very happy with it.
1:02:51And that's what the iPad is to them.
1:02:53And if you introduce this windowing mode to everybody,
1:02:56most of your iPad users will be like,
1:02:57"What the hell is going on?
1:02:58I don't want this."
1:02:59And then they're going to spend the next,
1:03:01you know, rest of their time using the iPad,
1:03:03tapping Zoom on every single one of their apps
1:03:06to get them back to full screen,
1:03:07if they can figure that out.
1:03:09So the control center thing is not there
1:03:12because they're not proud of center stage,
1:03:15or sorry, stage manager, I did it.
1:03:17It's not that at all.
1:03:19- What I find funny is that prior to this,
1:03:22Mark was talking about wanting to have a pro mode,
1:03:24like a button that you press
1:03:26that turn the iPad into pro mode.
1:03:28I think he, so it is doing that.
1:03:30I think he just doesn't like that it's do not,
1:03:32he doesn't like what it's doing.
1:03:35But that's just funny to me that that's a reason
1:03:37because that was something that he was suggesting
1:03:40they should do.
1:03:41- So he's so cranky about it, because he doesn't like it,
1:03:43that he says, aha, look, they hate it.
1:03:45They're hiding it behind a button in control center
1:03:47and it's dumb because that's not, that's no,
1:03:50that's not why.
1:03:51And I think that they're actually kind of proud of it,
1:03:54but they're also realize it would break the interface
1:03:57for every iPad user in a way
1:03:59that most iPad users don't want.
1:04:01It's also not on by default on the Mac.
1:04:03Are they ashamed of it on the Mac too?
1:04:05I don't think they are.
1:04:06I think that they think this is a mode
1:04:07like many other modes that you can turn on and off.
1:04:10And I actually think it's gonna be pretty decent,
1:04:13but it's got a lot of bugs
1:04:14and a lot of weird things about it,
1:04:15and it's gonna take time.
1:04:17So we'll see.
1:04:19Myke, I wanna take a moment here
1:04:21to channel James Thompson.
1:04:23Okay, just 'cause we have not given him his say
1:04:26and I'm gonna channel it here, which is,
1:04:27he has a very nuanced reason why this is an issue,
1:04:31which is if you ship an app in September for iOS,
1:04:34that's linked against the iOS and iPadOS 16 SDK,
1:04:39that code will run on iPadOS 16,
1:04:44even if it's not tested with the final build.
1:04:47So his issue here is he can release it for the iPhone
1:04:51But the iPad OS is still in beta,
1:04:53and when it goes final and gets pushed out to everybody,
1:04:56he, however it works on the iPad
1:05:00and however broken it might be,
1:05:02it'll just start working on those updated iPads.
1:05:05And he wants to test it and control that experience
1:05:10and not have it be broken,
1:05:12because then he's gonna get a bunch of bad app reviews
1:05:14for his iPad app.
1:05:15It was like, "Oh, I updated iOS 16
1:05:17"and now Peacock doesn't work."
1:05:19When the truth is it doesn't work
1:05:20because it doesn't have the GM.
1:05:21- I still don't understand how that's different.
1:05:24Like, what's the difference?
1:05:26- Well, I think the difference in part is that
1:05:28he's got days, or sometimes it's a day,
1:05:31or maybe it's a week, to run on the final build
1:05:33before it goes out and make any changes he needs to change
1:05:37so that it works properly
1:05:38when the regular users update to it.
1:05:41And that this is turning it to zero, literally zero,
1:05:45because it's already out there.
1:05:46He can't control it, he can't gate it and say,
1:05:48"I'm not gonna release this until I've cleared all the bugs
1:05:50"because it will already be released."
1:05:53I think that's his issue.
1:05:54Anyway, James, you can write.
1:05:57All right, well, it's out there.
1:05:58People can judge themselves.
1:06:00Anyway, I'm fine with it. - An unfortunate part
1:06:02of all of this is, and I feel for all developers
1:06:06of all kinds of things now, it doesn't matter.
1:06:08This is what they're gonna do.
1:06:09You just gotta get used to it, you know?
1:06:10- And what we've said all along is,
1:06:13and developers know this better than anyone,
1:06:14what is the pecking order in terms of Apple's priorities?
1:06:17It is one, Apple.
1:06:19- Yep.
1:06:20- Two, customers of Apple.
1:06:22Three, developers.
1:06:24And this is a move that I think makes sense
1:06:26for one and two.
1:06:27Sorry, three.
1:06:28(laughs)
1:06:29Like that's, but what else is new?
1:06:31This is how it is with that.
1:06:33So that's where we are.
1:06:34- This episode is brought to you by our friends
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1:08:21It is time for some #AskUpgrade questions to finish out today's episode.
1:08:27First one comes from Chris.
1:08:30Chris says "I, like Jason, love the iPhone mini."
1:08:34Yay Jason.
1:08:35"Have you decided how long you think you might keep your iPhone 13 mini?
1:08:41What do you think it's gonna take for you to move
1:08:43to a larger phone size?
1:08:46- It's kind of an unfair question just because,
1:08:48or at least I'm gonna give an unfair answer.
1:08:50How about that?
1:08:51I buy a new iPhone for myself every other year.
1:08:54This year was my year to do it,
1:08:57or last fall was my year to do it.
1:08:58So I bought an iPhone 13 mini,
1:09:00knowing I would keep it for two years at least.
1:09:03Maybe I'll keep it longer, I don't know.
1:09:04However, I'm a cheater because I get the iPhones
1:09:08every fall from Apple.
1:09:09thank you for making me part of your review program.
1:09:12I don't have to buy many iPhones.
1:09:14They send me the iPhones and I review them.
1:09:16And that means I get to use all the iPhones for a while.
1:09:19And that's really nice.
1:09:21But my personal owned iPhone will be the 13 mini
1:09:24and I don't anticipate buying one of these new ones
1:09:27'cause I just don't,
1:09:28I've kept myself on the two year cycle
1:09:30just because I think that that's fair.
1:09:34I'm also buying a new iPhone for my son this fall
1:09:38as he goes off to college.
1:09:39So he's gonna have to,
1:09:40I'm spending the money there this time instead.
1:09:44What will it take for me to move to a larger size iPhone?
1:09:47My guess is that the agglomeration of new features
1:09:50over the next two years will be what gets me to do it,
1:09:52that I'll be sad to give up the mini.
1:09:54- Well, and that there won't be one.
1:09:56(laughs)
1:09:57It's also like, you know, if you wanna get a new phone,
1:10:00you eventually have to move.
1:10:01- Yes, but I could also not get a new phone, right?
1:10:04That's the thing. - How long though?
1:10:05when the iPhone 15 comes out and it's two years,
1:10:09will I buy a new phone or will I keep it?
1:10:11I could keep the iPhone.
1:10:12My guess is that in two years,
1:10:14all the new features that have been rolled
1:10:15into the iPhone 14 and 15,
1:10:17and keep in mind the rumors are
1:10:18the 15 will be one of those big,
1:10:20kind of like new generations with new cameras
1:10:23and the periscope might be in there
1:10:25and all that kind of stuff.
1:10:26And I don't have ProMotion.
1:10:28And I don't have all these other features
1:10:30because I have an iPhone 13 mini.
1:10:32My guess is that in two years,
1:10:34when it's time for me traditionally to buy a new iPhone,
1:10:38I'm gonna look at some version of the iPhone 15
1:10:41and say, all right, I'll do it.
1:10:43And that's my guess.
1:10:46Is it possible that I will look at them and say,
1:10:49I can wait a year.
1:10:53Maybe, it's possible, anything's possible.
1:10:55Again, one of the fortunate things
1:10:57about doing this as my job is that
1:10:58if I need to refer to something
1:10:59on one of the brand new pieces of hardware,
1:11:01I have them, at least for a while, and I can do that.
1:11:04I don't need to actually buy the new pieces of hardware
1:11:06just for reference because that's my job.
1:11:09So I might be able to put it off longer,
1:11:12but if I know myself and analyze myself,
1:11:15that would be my guess is that in two years,
1:11:17when it's time for me to traditionally buy a new phone,
1:11:21I will buy a new phone and it will be probably an iPhone 15.
1:11:26That said, if there's a rumor
1:11:27that the iPhone 15 technology is gonna be rolled
1:11:30into something that looks like the iPhone mini
1:11:31maybe in the spring, I would probably wait.
1:11:34'cause I would really rather have an iPhone mini.
1:11:37But if there's no sign that the mini form factor,
1:11:40I can't believe I used that phrase, I hate it,
1:11:41but there it is.
1:11:42If the mini is not coming back in any shape or form,
1:11:45back to, I'll probably break down in two years.
1:11:48- Vegar asks, "With Major League Baseball,
1:11:51"Major League Soccer, and potentially the NFL,
1:11:54"when will Apple announce their first streaming deal
1:11:56"for any women's sport?"
1:11:59Now, I have to say, we can't answer the question, right?
1:12:02We don't know the answer to this, but I think it would be a good thing for them to pursue.
1:12:07It's more content, potentially of a smaller but also dedicated audience.
1:12:12They would get the ability to learn more about streaming in general.
1:12:16They just keep adding in, for I would presume, cheaper rights.
1:12:23If you got the women's Super League football, it would be cheaper than trying to get the
1:12:30premiership football.
1:12:32So here's the problem. There are not that many, especially in the United States, there
1:12:36are not that many women's sports leagues. The most prominent is the soccer league, the
1:12:41NWSL. There's the women's Super League in Europe. Paramount+ has bought the rights to
1:12:48both of those, so they're locked into a deal. And Sky and BBC in the UK have that. So I
1:12:56think the answer to Vega's question is largely all the streamers are aware that there's an
1:13:01audience that is growing for women's sports, and the challenge is that the number of those
1:13:09leagues that are out there is small, and therefore there is a competition to get those rights.
1:13:19And Paramount Plus, CBS basically in the US, has invested in women's soccer in the US and
1:13:27put that into their brand. And I have friends who are fans of the NWSL and specific teams
1:13:32like the Portland Thorns, and they got Paramount+ to watch the Portland Thorns, right? Like
1:13:38that was part of the deal. It's actually very similar to what's going to happen with Apple
1:13:41and MLS, where people are going to get their package because they are a fan of an MLS team.
1:13:47So my answer is women's sports leagues need to grow, but one of the ways that women's
1:13:52sports leagues are growing is by making deals with streamers. I'm sure Apple will
1:13:57be in the conversation, but you can't just turn around and, you know, the
1:14:01shopping—the aisles of the of the market, of the supermarket full of sports rights,
1:14:06the women's aisle is pretty bare because there just have not been that
1:14:13many women's sports leagues out there. And it's growing, but like in the US, like
1:14:21the the NWSL is kind of it in terms of the major sports. I will throw out there
1:14:29that Apple is rumored to be in conversations for some college
1:14:35conference deals and it probably is mostly gonna go to like ESPN+ or
1:14:42something like that but it's possible that some college conference in the US
1:14:46anyway might make a deal with Apple that looks like the MLS deal at which point
1:14:50what you'd see is all the college sports going on Apple's streaming. So they might
1:14:54get some college football games and some college basketball games, which is what
1:14:57they really want, but for example, if they make a deal with the, you know, PAC-12,
1:15:02which is having to make a new deal because they lost two members and their
1:15:06deal is up, so they have to make some new deals, and the commissioner there has
1:15:10said that one of the things that they will do is work with the streamer. One
1:15:13possibility might be that Apple or Amazon could assume their streaming
1:15:19package, in which case all of the college women's soccer and volleyball and softball,
1:15:25etc., etc., is going to go to whatever streamer they tie up with. So I'd say that pro leagues
1:15:30are going to be harder because they're going to have to compete with every other streamer
1:15:33for the limited number of women's pro leagues, especially in the US. But college might give
1:15:38them a little bit more of a venue. But this is the challenge is that there are all these
1:15:43established men's leagues and there just are not very many established women's leagues
1:15:46so far.
1:15:47Next question comes from John Cressen who asks,
1:15:50do we think that the next iPad Pro will have an M2 chip
1:15:53or could there be a Pro chip of some kind in there?
1:15:56- M2, no, no Pro, it doesn't make sense for the iPad.
1:16:01- What about M1 Pro?
1:16:03- Battery, no, I just don't think it makes sense.
1:16:05I think you want, M1 and M2 are fundamentally
1:16:07the iPad chips that also go in Macs.
1:16:10So I don't think so.
1:16:11- Brant asks, do you think we'll get lighter iPhones
1:16:15this year or are we in for heavier and heavier phones
1:16:18and screen sizes as battery size,
1:16:20as screen sizes and battery sizes get bigger?
1:16:23I miss the days of the 4S to the 5,
1:16:25more screen lighter designs.
1:16:27I don't know about if we're gonna get heavier
1:16:30and heavier phones all the time
1:16:32because that soon becomes a problem, right?
1:16:36But I don't know about lightness.
1:16:40Like I don't know if they're gonna make them lighter
1:16:43because it's like materials plus the batteries, right?
1:16:47But, you know.
1:16:49- Yeah, I reject the premise of this question.
1:16:52Bigger phones, yes.
1:16:53Heavier and heavier and heavier.
1:16:55Oh, every year the phones get heavier and bigger
1:16:57and heavier and bigger.
1:16:58Like there are bigger phones, they sell well.
1:17:01There are also smaller phones.
1:17:02Is Apple going to, this is like,
1:17:04did Johnny I write this question?
1:17:06This is like everything should be thinner and lighter.
1:17:08Phones on average are gonna be bigger
1:17:10because people like them.
1:17:11hey, iPhone mini user here, I lost.
1:17:16- No phones are getting bigger this year.
1:17:20- Right, well, the iPhone line as a whole will get bigger
1:17:23because they're gonna replace the iPhone mini
1:17:24with an iPhone max, right?
1:17:25- But it's not like the iPhone mini is getting bigger, right?
1:17:28It's just gonna go away.
1:17:29- Yeah, but they're not gonna like switch to like,
1:17:32people really like stainless steel.
1:17:33So this year we're gonna do some, like iron,
1:17:37we're gonna do an iron base, we're gonna do a lead based,
1:17:41Don't touch it, don't lick it.
1:17:43It's lead-based phone, but it's heavy and people love heavy.
1:17:46Like, you know, there are always trade-offs gonna be made.
1:17:50But if you are somebody who says,
1:17:53"I miss the days of the 4S to the 5,
1:17:55more screen, lighter designs," like,
1:17:57they will make it lighter and thinner
1:18:01when they feel like they can,
1:18:02but just needing the battery to be good
1:18:06and the screen to be big means that
1:18:09they're always gonna be fighting against that.
1:18:10- Also the 4S to the 5 is,
1:18:13I understand where you're coming from,
1:18:14but it's a bad example because they changed materials,
1:18:17right, so they went from glass to aluminum.
1:18:20That can't happen now because of wireless charging.
1:18:23- Yeah, and also the aluminum models, right,
1:18:28are the cheaper models and they are lighter
1:18:32because of that,
1:18:33'cause they're not using the heavy stainless steel.
1:18:34I think that they'll keep doing that too.
1:18:37- The regular phones, not the pro phones, you're saying, yeah.
1:18:39- I wanna be sympathetic here
1:18:40because I also like smaller, lighter phones.
1:18:43But I don't think that the narrative
1:18:45that they're always getting bigger and heavier
1:18:47is accurate either.
1:18:48I think there's a push and a pull,
1:18:50an ebb and a flow to this sort of thing.
1:18:52But if you're dreaming of the days
1:18:54of having small, light phones in general, it's over.
1:18:59But Apple, we're not gonna,
1:19:02fast forward to the iPhone 20 and it weighs four pounds.
1:19:05That's not gonna happen.
1:19:06- And Ryan asks,
1:19:07Is there somewhere I can see my Apple Watch's battery health like I can for my iPhone?
1:19:13Why yes Ryan, if you go to settings on the watch itself,
1:19:16so you have to go to settings, there is a battery section.
1:19:21Inside of that there is a button which isn't very clear that says battery health.
1:19:27You have to scroll down, you find it, it's buried in between two paragraphs for some reason
1:19:31and you can find it. Mine is 92%.
1:19:3395% here.
1:19:35Oh look at you, congratulations.
1:19:37Yeah, yeah, big battery boy here.
1:19:40I guess you are.
1:19:43If you would like to send in a question of your own, so we can help give you an answer
1:19:48on a future episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or
1:19:52use question mark #AskUpgrade in the Relay FM members Discord.
1:19:56Thank you to KleememacX, Hover and Sourcegraph for the support of this show.
1:20:00Thank you for listening and thank you to our members who support the show directly.
1:20:04You can find out more and sign up today at GetUpgradePlus.com.
1:20:08If you want to find Jason online, you can go to SixColors.com, TheIncomparable.com.
1:20:13He is @JSNEL, J-S-N-E-L-L, both Jason and I. Host office shows here at Relay FM.
1:20:18You can go to Relay.fm/shows.
1:20:20Find a new show.
1:20:21There's going to be something in there for you to listen to.
1:20:23You're going to find something fun, I bet.
1:20:25I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E, and we'll be back next week.
1:20:29Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.
1:20:31Goodbye, everybody.
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