Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:12 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, Episode 419.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Sourcegraph, Hover, and CleanMyMac X.

00:00:21 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:26 ◼   ► I have a #SnellTalk question for you.

00:00:28 ◼   ► - All right.

00:00:29 ◼   ► - Comes from instantiate this and they asks,

00:00:31 ◼   ► if you were in a car chase with the police,

00:00:33 ◼   ► what song do you put on to keep you going?

00:00:36 ◼   ► - Interesting premise.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Again, I will say I choose to interpret this

00:00:41 ◼   ► as that I am chasing the police because they're bad police

00:00:44 ◼   ► or I'm teaming up with the police to chase bad people.

00:00:47 ◼   ► - Is this Sting or not Sting?

00:00:50 ◼   ► Different police.

00:00:51 ◼   ► - Oh, I love that.

00:00:53 ◼   ► So we're in a car chase.

00:00:55 ◼   ► The bank robbers are getting away,

00:00:57 ◼   ► but I'm driving and Sting is in the passenger seat.

00:01:02 ◼   ► And Stewart Copeland and Andy Summers are in the back seat.

00:01:05 ◼   ► I like it.

00:01:08 ◼   ► - Surprise!

00:01:09 ◼   ► - They're gonna complain.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Well, yeah, I should really put on, you know,

00:01:14 ◼   ► every breath you take at that point or something

00:01:16 ◼   ► 'cause they're gonna be like,

00:01:17 ◼   ► oh, actually, no, they don't wanna hear it.

00:01:18 ◼   ► They've heard it too many times.

00:01:20 ◼   ► My funny answer that I thought of as part of this,

00:01:23 ◼   ► of course, is to lean on the Beverly Hills cop.

00:01:27 ◼   ► I immediately thought, "Well, the heat is on by Glenn Frey is the perfect answer here,"

00:01:33 ◼   ► because every 80s car chase was basically "the heat is on."

00:01:37 ◼   ► And if instantiate this as actually something that wants to get me kind of pumped, it would

00:01:41 ◼   ► be probably from the Bob Mould catalog, like the "Aqui-Act by Sugar," or maybe "Something

00:01:48 ◼   ► I Learned Today" by Husker Du, something that's really loud and shouty and is going to get

00:01:53 ◼   ► me pumped up to drive that car and do whatever with the police that will happen next. Probably

00:02:01 ◼   ► an impromptu concert at a coffee house after we catch the bad guy. There'll be like a fruit

00:02:06 ◼   ► cart will be overturned, a fire hydrant will be clipped, water will be spewing up, but

00:02:10 ◼   ► the bad guy will be led away by the cops and the police and I will be hanging out in front

00:02:16 ◼   ► of a coffee house next to the fire hydrant and playing a message in a bottle.

00:02:22 ◼   ► What about "Born to be Wild"? It feels like a good one. Maybe overplayed.

00:02:27 ◼   ► Not my style. I'm going to go with the punky "Hoosker Doo" sugar kind of stuff.

00:02:35 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question for us to open an episode of Up Green, as you

00:02:40 ◼   ► can tell, we could answer just about anything. Send out a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk,

00:02:45 ◼   ► use question mark "snowtalk" in the Relay FM members discord, which is something that

00:02:50 ◼   ► get access to if you subscribe to Upgrade Plus. Go to GetUpgradePlus.com and you will

00:02:59 ◼   ► be able to sign up for $5 a month if you do those a year. You get tons of great benefits

00:03:02 ◼   ► like access to RelayFam members Discord, I think primarily for Upgrade Plus. You get

00:03:07 ◼   ► extra content. This time you will hear us, well you will hear Jason talk me through setting

00:03:14 ◼   ► up a complex shortcut for podcast editing notes. That's what we do on Upgrade Plus today.

00:03:19 ◼   ► If you wonder what on earth does that mean, go to getocoplast.com.

00:03:23 ◼   ► Jason, it seems to me like there is an awful lot of stuff going on with HBO and Discovery

00:03:29 ◼   ► right now, because I see people talking about it a lot.

00:03:32 ◼   ► Yes, there's a lot of misinformation, a lot of accurate information, lots going on.

00:03:37 ◼   ► And I want to know in advance of this, will you be talking about this on the next downstream?

00:03:42 ◼   ► Well, only the downstream show document will know that for sure, and I am working on that

00:03:48 ◼   ► later today because we record tomorrow. But yeah, it may be entirely what we talk about

00:03:54 ◼   ► next time on there is what is going on with Warner Brothers Discovery and what's happening

00:03:57 ◼   ► with HBO Max and what is David Zaslav doing over there. And I saw, what was it, John Oliver

00:04:03 ◼   ► last night said, "I get the distinct impression that my network is being burned down for the

00:04:07 ◼   ► insurance money."

00:04:08 ◼   ► I feel like there were sometimes these things happen and I'm like, "Only Julia can explain

00:04:13 ◼   ► this to me." You know? And so, all right, I'm looking forward to it because I've been

00:04:17 ◼   ► I've seen a lot of spread, like some slides going around to it, and I don't really understand

00:04:23 ◼   ► what's happening.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Oh, the slides are a thing to behold.

00:04:27 ◼   ► There is one slide in particular involving an arrow that goes into like a box and that

00:04:32 ◼   ► explains that it's like streaming and it's like, okay?

00:04:37 ◼   ► But yeah, there's some amazing...

00:04:39 ◼   ► I'll just say, I feel like listening to the call about financials where they're trying

00:04:46 ◼   ► to talk to the money people. It's a lot like Apple stuff, right? You gotta filter it through

00:04:50 ◼   ► the fact that they're talking to the money people. They're talking to the investors,

00:04:53 ◼   ► they're talking to Wall Street, they know that they've got a big debt, what are they

00:04:57 ◼   ► gonna do, what's their strategy, what happens to the stock price, and of course the CEO

00:05:00 ◼   ► wants the stock price to go up and not down, so he's gonna spin everything he's doing in

00:05:05 ◼   ► that call for Wall Street and speak the language that they understand, which is incomprehensible

00:05:12 ◼   ► PowerPoint slides. So that's not quite, so yes, the creative side and the consumer side

00:05:18 ◼   ► will take the wrong message away from that and he's going to have to deal with the fallout

00:05:23 ◼   ► of that. But they were speaking a different message to Wall Street than they're going

00:05:26 ◼   ► to speak to the creators of the stuff that they're doing. But still there's a lot, I

00:05:32 ◼   ► feel like it's simultaneously what they're doing is overstated in terms of how terrible

00:05:37 ◼   ► it is, and yet on another level accurate. So we'll see what Julius says.

00:05:42 ◼   ► Yep, so you can go to relay.fm/downstream and that's where you'll go to get that

00:05:48 ◼   ► wonderful podcast and you'll hear more about it.

00:05:51 ◼   ► Alright, some follow up. We did follow up. Now I have follow up. So we had spoken about

00:05:59 ◼   ► Apple ditching their plans to create their own modems, right? We were talking about they

00:06:05 ◼   ► they were having a bunch of problems with that?

00:06:07 ◼   ► - I mean, they're delaying, right?

00:06:09 ◼   ► - Delaying, sorry, yes.

00:06:09 ◼   ► - The whole Intel business and all of that,

00:06:12 ◼   ► and they've been working on it,

00:06:13 ◼   ► but there was that report that said,

00:06:15 ◼   ► I think Ming-Chi Kuo was saying,

00:06:16 ◼   ► "It's not gonna be in next year's iPhones."

00:06:19 ◼   ► They've had to push it back.

00:06:20 ◼   ► They were hoping to get it in next year's iPhones,

00:06:22 ◼   ► didn't happen, they're gonna have to use Qualcomm parts

00:06:25 ◼   ► for that, and their Apple-built 5G stuff

00:06:29 ◼   ► is gonna have to come later.

00:06:31 ◼   ► - Well, it seems that they are still very committed

00:06:33 ◼   ► to this idea in new and wonderful ways.

00:06:36 ◼   ► They've just purchased 67 acres of land from HP,

00:06:40 ◼   ► which is funny 'cause I think Apple Park

00:06:42 ◼   ► was built on HP land as well, which is just kind of funny.

00:06:45 ◼   ► - It was formerly HP, yeah.

00:06:47 ◼   ► - So they bought 67 acres of land from HP

00:06:50 ◼   ► to build new facilities north of San Diego.

00:06:54 ◼   ► And the expectation is this is going to be for modems

00:06:56 ◼   ► because apparently this is modem town, Qualcomm is around.

00:07:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, Qualcomm is in San Diego.

00:07:03 ◼   ► They're just north of San Diego.

00:07:05 ◼   ► And this is a little further north of downtown San Diego,

00:07:10 ◼   ► but it's in the vicinity.

00:07:13 ◼   ► The idea here is this is where,

00:07:16 ◼   ► it's a little like when they were doing their,

00:07:17 ◼   ► starting to investigate car stuff,

00:07:19 ◼   ► they set up offices in Waterloo, Ontario,

00:07:21 ◼   ► right next to QNX and Blackberry,

00:07:23 ◼   ► because when you're hiring away people

00:07:27 ◼   ► from the competition to build something,

00:07:31 ◼   ► it's awfully nice if you've got a facility right next to them

00:07:34 ◼   ► so they don't have to uproot their family.

00:07:36 ◼   ► And so Apple has continued with what I believe Intel did

00:07:39 ◼   ► originally, which is if you're gonna be Qualcomm

00:07:42 ◼   ► and you're gonna beat Qualcomm,

00:07:44 ◼   ► you gotta set up shop in San Diego

00:07:47 ◼   ► 'cause that's where Qualcomm is.

00:07:48 ◼   ► - Yep. - Good place.

00:07:49 ◼   ► Who would wanna leave San Diego?

00:07:51 ◼   ► I think that's the bigger point there is

00:07:53 ◼   ► who would wanna actually leave San Diego for anywhere else?

00:07:56 ◼   ► I mean, I did, but I graduated from college

00:07:58 ◼   ► and had to get a job, but otherwise I would not have left

00:08:00 ◼   ► because it's great. So more Apple. I love that they had a press release that's like,

00:08:05 ◼   ► "Oh, Apple's been a part of San Diego for several decades." And when I was in college,

00:08:10 ◼   ► there was a big building not too far away from our college campus that had a big rainbow

00:08:14 ◼   ► Apple logo at the top of it. Apple has been a part of it. I don't know what was in it

00:08:18 ◼   ► at that point. But yeah, Apple's been in San Diego for a very long time, on and off at

00:08:23 ◼   ► least. And so, yeah, they're expanding. Keep in mind, they already have space. I don't

00:08:29 ◼   ► I don't know if they're gonna leave that space or what,

00:08:32 ◼   ► but they're in Mira Mesa where Qualcomm is,

00:08:35 ◼   ► but they're doing this.

00:08:37 ◼   ► So good job, San Diego people.

00:08:41 ◼   ► We got some Apple there.

00:08:43 ◼   ► - There are also some more hints of always on screens code

00:08:47 ◼   ► being found in the latest Xcode beta,

00:08:50 ◼   ► potentially for the next iPhones.

00:08:51 ◼   ► Steve Moser uncovered some evidence of lock screen widgets

00:08:55 ◼   ► changing their appearance.

00:08:56 ◼   ► So they're dimmed or like color is removed from them.

00:08:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is, and what's really interesting about this

00:09:02 ◼   ► is, and then also like the clownfish

00:09:04 ◼   ► has a different appearance.

00:09:05 ◼   ► And I initially thought that this was the dimming.

00:09:08 ◼   ► 'Cause when you put, when a phone goes into sleep mode,

00:09:11 ◼   ► it does dim everything.

00:09:13 ◼   ► But what's interesting is the dimmed media files

00:09:17 ◼   ► that people are finding are not what is displayed

00:09:21 ◼   ► in sleep mode.

00:09:23 ◼   ► They're different, which is weird.

00:09:24 ◼   ► Like the clownfish image in sleep mode,

00:09:28 ◼   ► it looks like is just, it's got an opacity,

00:09:32 ◼   ► you know, in front of it, 20% or whatever,

00:09:35 ◼   ► where it's dimmed.

00:09:36 ◼   ► Whereas this dimmed clownfish,

00:09:38 ◼   ► like doesn't have the colors removed from it,

00:09:42 ◼   ► a very specific kind of color profile.

00:09:43 ◼   ► So it looks very much like what we already suspected,

00:09:47 ◼   ► which is Apple is working on all the assets

00:09:49 ◼   ► to make it so that there is an additional mode

00:09:52 ◼   ► that would presumably be the always on mode,

00:09:55 ◼   ► where it dims itself and the color drops out

00:09:56 ◼   ► and the brightness drops out,

00:09:57 ◼   ► but you can still see it in a kind of high contrast way

00:10:00 ◼   ► on the OLED display of the new iPhones.

00:10:02 ◼   ► - Jason, I wanted to talk a little bit more

00:10:05 ◼   ► about the MacBook Air,

00:10:06 ◼   ► because I mean, I think I referenced this.

00:10:10 ◼   ► I have one for a couple of weeks that Apple sent me.

00:10:13 ◼   ► I now have my own,

00:10:16 ◼   ► and I wanted to give a little bit more about,

00:10:18 ◼   ► a little more of my thoughts about that whole experience

00:10:21 ◼   ► and why I have decided to own a MacBook Air of my own.

00:10:26 ◼   ► - That's nice.

00:10:27 ◼   ► the record I got my purchased midnight MacBook Air last week as well. So we both got a midnight

00:10:36 ◼   ► MacBook Air in our lives now. Well look at us. Mm-hmm. Fingerprint pals. Yeah the midnight.

00:10:44 ◼   ► Midnight, look here's the thing I'll start with that right. I think it's the best color.

00:10:49 ◼   ► Yeah oh yeah. So I wanted it. Yeah yeah and does it show you does it show fingerprints?

00:10:55 ◼   ► Yeah, it absolutely does. I don't care that my old black MacBook showed fingerprints, too

00:11:01 ◼   ► I don't care it is different from all the other Mac laptops. It looks different. It looks really nice

00:11:07 ◼   ► I like it when it looks black and I just had this happen in my house where I showed it to Lauren and I said

00:11:12 ◼   ► I said look it's actually blue, but it looks black and she's like it just is black like okay

00:11:17 ◼   ► But I'm telling you and she's like no, it's just black

00:11:19 ◼   ► I'm like, alright

00:11:19 ◼   ► so I lay it down and then it's like the next day and the light is different coming into the room and all that and

00:11:24 ◼   ► And she's sitting on the couch looking at the coffee table

00:11:27 ◼   ► where it's sitting and she goes, "Oh, it is blue."

00:11:29 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Like, yep.

00:11:30 ◼   ► That's the color of this Mac. - I like that.

00:11:32 ◼   ► - This MacBook Air is that it's black

00:11:34 ◼   ► until you realize that it's actually blue,

00:11:37 ◼   ► but only a little bit.

00:11:38 ◼   ► It's yeah, it looks great. - Until it's black again.

00:11:39 ◼   ► - And when it's open and it's just all the whole dark,

00:11:42 ◼   ► the dark keys and the dark surface and the dark screen

00:11:45 ◼   ► and the dark bezels, like, it looks really nice.

00:11:48 ◼   ► I like it a lot.

00:11:50 ◼   ► - So the one that Apple sent me

00:11:53 ◼   ► was the 8GB of RAM model and I was thinking this was going to be potentially problematic

00:12:01 ◼   ► because I had some issues with the original MacBook Pro and it had 16GB of RAM and it

00:12:09 ◼   ► ran out of memory a lot. I think I was talking about that at the time. But my iMac never

00:12:15 ◼   ► did it but I thought maybe this would and I didn't have any issues with that at all.

00:12:21 ◼   ► I expect that the swap was doing its job pretty well.

00:12:25 ◼   ► Because I was using a variety of apps, like open all the time.

00:12:28 ◼   ► I have tons of apps open, I should leave them open, why not leave them open.

00:12:31 ◼   ► It was doing a good enough job but it was maxing out I could see.

00:12:35 ◼   ► And so for mine I got 24GB of RAM in my MacBook Air because I just want to not think about

00:12:41 ◼   ► it for years.

00:12:42 ◼   ► It's just going to have what it has and it's going to run its course.

00:12:47 ◼   ► Now for me with this computer, I am doing the majority of my work on it.

00:12:54 ◼   ► So we're talking just general work stuff, email, calendars, notes, research, I do stuff

00:13:02 ◼   ► with Photoshop, Pixelmator, all of the stuff that's basically everything that I may possibly

00:13:07 ◼   ► do that isn't recording or editing a podcast will be done on MacBook Air.

00:13:13 ◼   ► It's previously been done on my Macbook Pro and then my iMac was my recording and editing computer.

00:13:19 ◼   ► And I thought, "I'm just going to go head first into this Macbook Air and just see what it can

00:13:25 ◼   ► handle." I couldn't tell any difference between it and my Macbook Pro. I just couldn't. If I wanted

00:13:31 ◼   ► to do something audio editing wise, sure I'd see the difference. But I don't do anything there.

00:13:36 ◼   ► Like if I want to start crunching on a file and converting an MP3 or whatever, I'm going to see it

00:13:41 ◼   ► But I'm not doing any of that here.

00:13:43 ◼   ► And so where I'm usually using this computer for the vast majority of its time

00:13:48 ◼   ► is plugged into my studio display.

00:13:50 ◼   ► So the computer's closed, studio display is on, and I'm doing my thing.

00:13:55 ◼   ► When I use it as a laptop, there are a few things that I notice that are different.

00:14:00 ◼   ► One, the biggest thing for me is the screen brightness.

00:14:04 ◼   ► Really notice that compared to my MacBook Pro.

00:14:07 ◼   ► I don't notice the ProMotion very much.

00:14:09 ◼   ► I don't really know how well that is possible to see on a MacBook Pro anyway.

00:14:15 ◼   ► I know at first it was a bit shaky as to where you'd actually see the higher refresh rate on a Mac.

00:14:21 ◼   ► I'd see it on my iPhone still and I love it on my iPhone.

00:14:24 ◼   ► I think I've found that the bigger a display gets, maybe the less visible that becomes.

00:14:30 ◼   ► I don't know why, but that seems to have been a thing for me.

00:14:33 ◼   ► But the brightness is where I definitely see a huge difference.

00:14:37 ◼   ► the MacBook Air just can't get to what the MacBook Pro can.

00:14:40 ◼   ► - No, it's half, I mean, it's half.

00:14:42 ◼   ► Somebody was saying on,

00:14:43 ◼   ► I don't even remember what podcast this was,

00:14:45 ◼   ► that they like to work outside and the MacBook Pro,

00:14:50 ◼   ► like you can work outside and see everything clearly

00:14:54 ◼   ► because it goes so bright.

00:14:56 ◼   ► And the MacBook Air, I have not had a problem with it,

00:14:58 ◼   ► but again, this is the thing of like,

00:15:00 ◼   ► if you always use a MacBook Air,

00:15:02 ◼   ► you internalize what the brightness of the MacBook Air is

00:15:04 ◼   ► and you just think,

00:15:05 ◼   ► "Oh, well, this is how bright laptops get."

00:15:06 ◼   ► And then you use the MacBook Pro and you realize,

00:15:09 ◼   ► oh no, no, this is twice as bright as that one is.

00:15:14 ◼   ► And in certain circumstances,

00:15:15 ◼   ► you can just crank up the brightness

00:15:16 ◼   ► and blast away any of the glare that's coming from the sun

00:15:20 ◼   ► and bouncing off objects while you're outside.

00:15:23 ◼   ► And it just, I was thinking about this the other day

00:15:26 ◼   ► when it might've been when we were talking

00:15:29 ◼   ► about the MacBook Air compared to the MacBook Pro.

00:15:31 ◼   ► And I thought we could talk about the chips

00:15:34 ◼   ► and we can talk about the slots and the ports.

00:15:37 ◼   ► But I think the real, like, most important difference

00:15:42 ◼   ► between them is the screen, right?

00:15:45 ◼   ► Because of the brightness and the pro motion.

00:15:47 ◼   ► Like, it is the biggest upgrade you get

00:15:50 ◼   ► when you go from the Air to the Pro.

00:15:52 ◼   ► The big pros, not the 13, 'cause don't get that one.

00:15:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, before you start

00:15:57 ◼   ► with all the configurations available.

00:15:59 ◼   ► But like, it's the thing that every owner's gonna see, right?

00:16:04 ◼   ► is the screen, no matter what configuration you go for.

00:16:07 ◼   ► - And you know, chip differences are gonna be

00:16:09 ◼   ► speed at certain tasks,

00:16:12 ◼   ► and the port differences are convenience,

00:16:13 ◼   ► and they're real.

00:16:14 ◼   ► I'm not saying that those aren't differences,

00:16:16 ◼   ► I'm just saying you're staring at the screen all the time,

00:16:19 ◼   ► and on the Pro systems, you are getting it.

00:16:21 ◼   ► I mean, we're talking about the Air here, not the Pro,

00:16:22 ◼   ► but just saying, I don't miss the ProMotion

00:16:25 ◼   ► and the brightness, but they are real,

00:16:28 ◼   ► they do make a difference, and they're not on the Air,

00:16:31 ◼   ► and that's one of the things you give up

00:16:32 ◼   ► to get the smaller, lighter, cheaper laptop.

00:16:35 ◼   ► - So one of the biggest things for me,

00:16:38 ◼   ► I think it was actually the biggest thing

00:16:40 ◼   ► as to why I decided I wanted to have one of these machines,

00:16:44 ◼   ► is how good it is at being a laptop.

00:16:48 ◼   ► It is the most laptop-y laptop I've ever used

00:16:51 ◼   ► in its lightness, its thinness.

00:16:54 ◼   ► Like I take my laptop home with me every day

00:16:58 ◼   ► and bring it back to the studio every day.

00:17:00 ◼   ► I do it so I always have a Mac

00:17:01 ◼   ► where my computer, if I ever need it at home,

00:17:04 ◼   ► sometimes I do, sometimes something might happen.

00:17:07 ◼   ► I have that kind of job where it could be 10 p.m. at night

00:17:09 ◼   ► and someone needs me for something,

00:17:10 ◼   ► and the easiest thing for me to do is grab my laptop.

00:17:13 ◼   ► So I like to just have it with me.

00:17:15 ◼   ► And I could not get over,

00:17:17 ◼   ► during the couple of weeks that I was using it,

00:17:20 ◼   ► just how much easier it is to pick it up and move it around.

00:17:23 ◼   ► And this sounds like such a simple kind of glib kind of thing

00:17:28 ◼   ► and why is this important?

00:17:29 ◼   ► Well, it's a laptop, it's meant to be moved.

00:17:33 ◼   ► And the fact of just how much thinner and lighter it was

00:17:37 ◼   ► than the MacBook Pro that I was using,

00:17:39 ◼   ► it just made a noticeable,

00:17:43 ◼   ► like positive difference every single day for me.

00:17:46 ◼   ► Like it is way closer to an iPad

00:17:49 ◼   ► in the way it feels in your hands,

00:17:52 ◼   ► when closed especially than a Mac.

00:17:55 ◼   ► Especially like if you have like an iPad

00:17:56 ◼   ► and a Magic keyboard, like 12.9 inch iPad

00:17:59 ◼   ► and the magic people.

00:18:00 ◼   ► It's basically the same.

00:18:01 ◼   ► And that was just an incredible thing for me.

00:18:04 ◼   ► And it was just like, right, okay,

00:18:06 ◼   ► I know I want this to be my daily computer

00:18:10 ◼   ► because it's just doing what I want,

00:18:13 ◼   ► everything I want it to do from a power perspective,

00:18:15 ◼   ► from a capability perspective,

00:18:16 ◼   ► but in a much better form factor for what I need.

00:18:20 ◼   ► So I'm now living the two-laptop lifestyle

00:18:24 ◼   ► here in the studio.

00:18:26 ◼   ► So I now am using a MacBook Air,

00:18:29 ◼   ► I've got one terabyte SSD, 24 gigabytes of RAM,

00:18:32 ◼   ► that's my daily driver laptop.

00:18:34 ◼   ► My MacBook Pro is taking the spot of my M1 iMac.

00:18:39 ◼   ► I did this today, I switched it all over today.

00:18:43 ◼   ► So I now have MacBook Pro plugged into two displays.

00:18:47 ◼   ► I have a Dell display that I've used for ages on the side,

00:18:50 ◼   ► which is where I put all my audio hijack stuff.

00:18:52 ◼   ► So it's always visible when I'm recording.

00:18:54 ◼   ► all the recording tools are over there,

00:18:56 ◼   ► and I can just look at them and I can see the time,

00:18:58 ◼   ► I can see everything's running, it's always there.

00:19:00 ◼   ► And then I have the LG monitor that I used to use

00:19:04 ◼   ► before my studio display.

00:19:06 ◼   ► This LG monitor is way too big.

00:19:08 ◼   ► It's like 32 inches, it's way too big,

00:19:11 ◼   ► it's way too close to me here,

00:19:13 ◼   ► but I wanna test all of this out

00:19:15 ◼   ► before I even consider getting another studio display.

00:19:19 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:19:20 ◼   ► - And considering the fact that we're coming up to September,

00:19:23 ◼   ► which is always an expensive time.

00:19:25 ◼   ► I don't want to be buying another studio to spare right now.

00:19:27 ◼   ► So I'm just going to live with this for a while

00:19:28 ◼   ► and see how I feel.

00:19:30 ◼   ► Because also I've had really inconsistent experiences

00:19:34 ◼   ► of laptops plugged in all the time, right?

00:19:36 ◼   ► That like, do they connect?

00:19:37 ◼   ► Do they not connect?

00:19:38 ◼   ► So I've got it running.

00:19:39 ◼   ► Also the desk is all not right.

00:19:41 ◼   ► I need to completely reorganize my desk

00:19:44 ◼   ► to deal with this different layout.

00:19:46 ◼   ► And like, I just have to,

00:19:47 ◼   ► the laptop is just sitting in front of me

00:19:49 ◼   ► on a little stand that I used to put my iMac

00:19:53 ◼   ► on top of, right?

00:19:54 ◼   ► So it would be your eye height, but it's like super ugly.

00:19:56 ◼   ► There's cables coming out of it.

00:19:57 ◼   ► It's like, I don't like it.

00:19:58 ◼   ► I have one of those 12 South book stand things,

00:20:02 ◼   ► whatever they call it.

00:20:03 ◼   ► - Book ark?

00:20:04 ◼   ► - Book ark, yeah.

00:20:05 ◼   ► But I just don't have anywhere to put that yet.

00:20:07 ◼   ► It's like, I've got to redo this entire desk,

00:20:09 ◼   ► but I'm not doing that until I'm sure of this.

00:20:12 ◼   ► Now, the reason I've done this,

00:20:14 ◼   ► and also I will say my desk does not feel as happy

00:20:17 ◼   ► as a place to be.

00:20:18 ◼   ► We've got that beautiful yellow computer looking at me.

00:20:20 ◼   ► I will say that.

00:20:21 ◼   ► I sat down to record today Jason and it was like oh this feels sad like this is ugly lg

00:20:27 ◼   ► like it's not ugly it's fine it's like all black right the monitors like all the bezels are black

00:20:32 ◼   ► and it just doesn't feel as colorful in here but now I will be able to benefit from having an M1

00:20:39 ◼   ► max powered machine and I know it's going to be ripping through anything that I need to do

00:20:46 ◼   ► processing wise. I will say there is this other part of it which is like well not

00:20:50 ◼   ► actually editing as many podcasts as I used to but that's like a whole other

00:20:54 ◼   ► thing to think about for a future time. So the plan is to think about I'm

00:21:00 ◼   ► going to try this out for a couple of weeks I think of these two laptops where

00:21:02 ◼   ► the MacBook Pro is essentially sitting here as an Mac studio right that's kind

00:21:09 ◼   ► of how I'm treating it. But my kind of future that I imagine is

00:21:16 ◼   ► If I need to travel for work and record I will just take the MacBook Pro

00:21:21 ◼   ► because I know it is all ready and all set up with the most power possible to

00:21:26 ◼   ► get my podcast recording done. Which you may think that sounds

00:21:30 ◼   ► counterintuitive if you're taking a heavier laptop with you while you're

00:21:32 ◼   ► traveling but when I'm traveling say across the Atlantic my backpacks already

00:21:37 ◼   ► too heavy with all other kinds of stuff I've got in it anyway so I'll just take the

00:21:40 ◼   ► MacBook Pro. But we'll see my M1 iMac it's gonna stay here for a little bit

00:21:45 ◼   ► until I finally made this decision,

00:21:47 ◼   ► and then it's gonna go home,

00:21:49 ◼   ► and it's gonna be a beautiful family home computer.

00:21:52 ◼   ► - Yay.

00:21:52 ◼   ► You're gonna get to do what Apple does

00:21:54 ◼   ► in all of its promo shots,

00:21:55 ◼   ► which is put a lovingly detailed home setup with an iMac,

00:22:00 ◼   ► a nice yellow iMac in the center of it.

00:22:02 ◼   ► - And it could be,

00:22:03 ◼   ► I was originally thinking,

00:22:05 ◼   ► "Oh, I don't wanna have a kitchen computer,"

00:22:08 ◼   ► but I actually think

00:22:09 ◼   ► it could be a really nice kitchen computer,

00:22:11 ◼   ► 'cause I was thinking,

00:22:12 ◼   ► "Maybe we'd want a small television screen in the kitchen,

00:22:15 ◼   ► and this could also be that, right?

00:22:16 ◼   ► So maybe, we'll see how that goes in the future for me.

00:22:19 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm just really struck by

00:22:24 ◼   ► how excellent a computer the MacBook Air is.

00:22:27 ◼   ► I just think it's fantastic.

00:22:30 ◼   ► I think it's, for me, easily taking the crown again

00:22:34 ◼   ► of the best laptop Apple makes,

00:22:36 ◼   ► 'cause it's just the right balance of everything, I think.

00:22:41 ◼   ► I think it's fantastic.

00:22:43 ◼   ► - I think you're right.

00:22:44 ◼   ► I saw a note go by on Twitter this weekend

00:22:47 ◼   ► from Walt Mossberg, retired, great tech reviewer

00:22:52 ◼   ► for many years of "Wall Street Journal"

00:22:53 ◼   ► and all things D and all of that.

00:22:56 ◼   ► And he said, it drives him crazy

00:23:00 ◼   ► that there are all of these reviews of the MacBook Air

00:23:05 ◼   ► that talk about power or a lack of power

00:23:09 ◼   ► or these incredibly complicated use cases for it

00:23:11 ◼   ► when the truth is 99% of people don't use that much power.

00:23:16 ◼   ► And I think the truth is, the real truth is

00:23:19 ◼   ► that for the last decade,

00:23:21 ◼   ► most computers had enough power

00:23:23 ◼   ► to serve 90% of the needs of people.

00:23:26 ◼   ► I think at this point, the bar has been raised to,

00:23:29 ◼   ► and I look back 'cause I was like,

00:23:30 ◼   ► "Oh, okay, well, does my review pass the test?"

00:23:32 ◼   ► And my review says 99% of people,

00:23:36 ◼   ► the bar has been raised so much now

00:23:39 ◼   ► that most people can get along just fine

00:23:41 ◼   ► with the MacBook Air.

00:23:43 ◼   ► One of the things that struck me about this MacBook Air is,

00:23:46 ◼   ► you can't, like there's very little you can't do with it.

00:23:51 ◼   ► When you hit the wall, you don't really hit the wall,

00:23:55 ◼   ► you just slow down and it takes you a while

00:23:58 ◼   ► to reach the wall.

00:23:59 ◼   ► And that's another thing that's really notable

00:24:01 ◼   ► about how much power is in even the MacBook Air.

00:24:04 ◼   ► And the M1 MacBook Air is this case too.

00:24:08 ◼   ► But now with the M2, even more with like 8K video

00:24:12 ◼   ► and different kinds of 4K video,

00:24:13 ◼   ► like what you're really giving up is time.

00:24:16 ◼   ► I'm sure there are things that require

00:24:18 ◼   ► a certain number of like ports.

00:24:19 ◼   ► And like, I'm sure you can find those edge cases,

00:24:21 ◼   ► but we've reached the point now

00:24:23 ◼   ► where you would have to work really hard

00:24:26 ◼   ► to find reasons why you absolutely couldn't

00:24:29 ◼   ► use a MacBook Air to do your job,

00:24:31 ◼   ► whatever your job is, literally whatever your job is.

00:24:34 ◼   ► And I'm not saying those edge cases aren't there.

00:24:36 ◼   ► And I'm not saying that our listeners

00:24:37 ◼   ► aren't the edge cases,

00:24:38 ◼   ► 'cause our listeners probably are the edge cases,

00:24:40 ◼   ► but we've gone from it being like,

00:24:43 ◼   ► when it started the computer for 50% of people,

00:24:46 ◼   ► to now I think it's the computer for 99% of people.

00:24:49 ◼   ► And that if you wanna go,

00:24:50 ◼   ► this is why I was saying about the MacBook Pro,

00:24:52 ◼   ► if you wanna go to the MacBook Pro,

00:24:54 ◼   ► go for the size, go for the ports, go for the screen,

00:24:57 ◼   ► or go for the fact that it's so fast,

00:25:00 ◼   ► you'll be able to do that work faster

00:25:02 ◼   ► and that matters to you.

00:25:03 ◼   ► But like you traveling internationally with a MacBook Air,

00:25:07 ◼   ► There's nothing that you're going to say, "Oh, I can't do this."

00:25:11 ◼   ► You might say, "Oh, this is slow.

00:25:14 ◼   ► I'm going to have to wait an extra 10 minutes for this thing to finish."

00:25:17 ◼   ► But that's it. It's really remarkable.

00:25:19 ◼   ► And it depends on the type.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Basically, I'm giving myself the ability to take either of these laptops if I was traveling.

00:25:26 ◼   ► So for WWDC, for example, I need speed.

00:25:31 ◼   ► I've got to get things done as quickly as possible.

00:25:34 ◼   ► but like a regular trip where I might record a show or two

00:25:37 ◼   ► while I'm traveling, I'll just take my, okay.

00:25:40 ◼   ► So, but I'm gonna be giving myself the flexibility

00:25:42 ◼   ► to make the right choice.

00:25:44 ◼   ► - Even what speed you need,

00:25:45 ◼   ► like if you're not working in 4K video,

00:25:49 ◼   ► it will have all the speed you need, it really will.

00:25:52 ◼   ► It's that super high end stuff

00:25:55 ◼   ► where you're really gonna have it.

00:25:56 ◼   ► Or if you're doing like, I mean,

00:25:57 ◼   ► my example is always isotope.

00:25:59 ◼   ► And I think this goes back to Walt saying about

00:26:01 ◼   ► why do all the reviewers talk about these things?

00:26:03 ◼   ► To be fair, Apple is also to blame here

00:26:04 ◼   ► because Apple brings out a low end MacBook Air,

00:26:08 ◼   ► by definition the low end of their product,

00:26:10 ◼   ► their laptop line, and says, "Let's talk about 8K video."

00:26:14 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Like, really?

00:26:15 ◼   ► - And puts that stuff in the chip, right?

00:26:17 ◼   ► The video decoding and coding stuff.

00:26:18 ◼   ► - Right, and one of the reasons we do that

00:26:21 ◼   ► is because we're trying to find the places

00:26:22 ◼   ► where this thing falls down.

00:26:23 ◼   ► 'Cause the fact is, we are all just out there

00:26:25 ◼   ► on the edge of the 99% trying to find some use case

00:26:29 ◼   ► that it doesn't work.

00:26:29 ◼   ► So for me, it's iZotope, and their D Reverb and D Noise

00:26:33 ◼   ► plugins and yeah, so the reason I have a Mac studio

00:26:36 ◼   ► is because I've got stuff that takes,

00:26:39 ◼   ► a job that takes 30 minutes on the MacBook Air

00:26:43 ◼   ► and takes 15 minutes on the Mac studio.

00:26:45 ◼   ► And for me, sitting there watching the progress bar

00:26:47 ◼   ► or going off and doing something else

00:26:50 ◼   ► and then coming back and doing the next file,

00:26:51 ◼   ► which is another half hour, right?

00:26:53 ◼   ► It's better to do that in 10 or 15 minutes,

00:26:55 ◼   ► but I could still do it.

00:26:57 ◼   ► And that's the most extreme for me that I really get

00:26:59 ◼   ► is that kind of stuff.

00:27:01 ◼   ► For most stuff, it's the difference between,

00:27:03 ◼   ► as I did with my testing, right?

00:27:04 ◼   ► It's the difference between,

00:27:05 ◼   ► "Oh, that job took a minute 20 instead of a minute 10."

00:27:09 ◼   ► Which is, I mean, yeah, it's slower, okay,

00:27:12 ◼   ► but not so you'd notice really.

00:27:15 ◼   ► And that's what I mean about,

00:27:16 ◼   ► I think you could travel with confidence

00:27:18 ◼   ► for all that you do with a MacBook Air.

00:27:21 ◼   ► You might have to, again,

00:27:22 ◼   ► you might have to get like a hub or something, right?

00:27:24 ◼   ► There are these issues with the fact

00:27:25 ◼   ► that it's only got the two ports,

00:27:27 ◼   ► but, and a card reader, if you're doing stuff

00:27:30 ◼   ► where you're pulling things off of an SD recorder

00:27:32 ◼   ► and all that, there are reasons to get a MacBook Pro.

00:27:34 ◼   ► I'm not saying there aren't.

00:27:35 ◼   ► I'm just saying that if all you have is a MacBook Air,

00:27:38 ◼   ► you could do everything.

00:27:40 ◼   ► - I agree. - You really could.

00:27:42 ◼   ► - We'll see.

00:27:43 ◼   ► - And maybe you will.

00:27:44 ◼   ► Also, by the way, I'm gonna give you a,

00:27:46 ◼   ► I'm not, this is not a real assignment,

00:27:47 ◼   ► but I'm gonna give you a fake assignment,

00:27:50 ◼   ► which is to say, you could,

00:27:52 ◼   ► now you can replace your streaming PC as well,

00:27:54 ◼   ► because, I mean, you probably can't,

00:27:56 ◼   ► but I will say OBS just went into beta

00:28:00 ◼   ► with their Apple Silicon version

00:28:02 ◼   ► that also integrates all of those code changes

00:28:05 ◼   ► that the Apple engineers made

00:28:06 ◼   ► so that they're using the right APIs

00:28:08 ◼   ► for window capture and stuff like that.

00:28:12 ◼   ► So I haven't seen any reports about how good this thing is,

00:28:16 ◼   ► but I have at least hope

00:28:18 ◼   ► that OBS may actually be decent on the Mac again.

00:28:22 ◼   ► So something to watch,

00:28:23 ◼   ► 'cause I know that's a tool that you use for live streaming.

00:28:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, OBS can still be fine,

00:28:29 ◼   ► but this is like a bunch of input output stuff

00:28:31 ◼   ► that I have way more control of.

00:28:33 ◼   ► - I get it.

00:28:34 ◼   ► I mean, having a piece,

00:28:35 ◼   ► also what's the difference between having set it up

00:28:36 ◼   ► and having to set it up?

00:28:37 ◼   ► Like it may be that we're reaching a point

00:28:39 ◼   ► where somebody like you looks at and goes,

00:28:41 ◼   ► "I don't really need to buy a PC, I can get by."

00:28:44 ◼   ► But you already have it.

00:28:45 ◼   ► So it's fine.

00:28:46 ◼   ► I have managed to never go down that path

00:28:49 ◼   ► and I never will because I've got other options

00:28:54 ◼   ► but it's nice that OBS is kind of,

00:28:56 ◼   ► it seems to have found the plot again on the Mac

00:28:59 ◼   ► with Apple Silicon and the new stuff

00:29:02 ◼   ► that for those who don't remember,

00:29:04 ◼   ► there was a GitHub code contribution from Apple.

00:29:08 ◼   ► I think listed as from Apple,

00:29:11 ◼   ► but it is using the right APIs on macOS for window capture

00:29:16 ◼   ► that it previously wasn't using.

00:29:19 ◼   ► It's the screen capture kit API.

00:29:22 ◼   ► And so that's encouraging

00:29:25 ◼   ► that that app, which is vital for so many people

00:29:29 ◼   ► who do video streams, is actually kind of up to speed,

00:29:33 ◼   ► or at least theoretically up to speed on macOS,

00:29:35 ◼   ► again, with Apple Silicon and Screen Capture Kit support.

00:29:38 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you by Sourcegraph.

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00:31:20 ◼   ► Rumour round up!

00:31:22 ◼   ► Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple is currently preparing and recording the September event,

00:31:28 ◼   ► confirming that it will be a continuation of pre-recorded events.

00:31:32 ◼   ► This event will feature the iPhone 14 and new Apple Watches with the plan for an October

00:31:37 ◼   ► event for new iPads and Macs.

00:31:41 ◼   ► there any doubt in your mind that there would be an in-person, like any doubt in your mind

00:31:46 ◼   ► about what this event was going to be from in-person, not in-person?

00:31:49 ◼   ► Well, at some point, yes. At some point, I thought that they might do this after they

00:31:53 ◼   ► did WWDC with the in-person component. I thought that maybe they would feel like they could

00:31:57 ◼   ► invite people, but as we've detailed here, the trajectory of the pandemic and the new

00:32:02 ◼   ► strains that are more infectious and easily transmittable and like right now, I'm not

00:32:10 ◼   ► that surprised that they might do this.

00:32:12 ◼   ► I still am thinking it's possible they will do

00:32:15 ◼   ► an in-person media event of some kind.

00:32:18 ◼   ► - They could do what they did at WWDC,

00:32:20 ◼   ► what you just mentioned. - They could.

00:32:21 ◼   ► - They could just do the same thing.

00:32:22 ◼   ► - They could invite the media and have a small media group

00:32:25 ◼   ► and have us sit outside and then do maybe even

00:32:28 ◼   ► in Cafe Max or some other kind of like open air location

00:32:31 ◼   ► or masked inside something like the Steve Jobs Theater,

00:32:34 ◼   ► have the hands-on area.

00:32:35 ◼   ► 'Cause that would be the one thing

00:32:36 ◼   ► that I would still put out there,

00:32:38 ◼   ► is this is gonna be a produced show, it absolutely is.

00:32:41 ◼   ► Are they gonna have an in-person component?

00:32:43 ◼   ► Maybe, but if so, it's gonna be

00:32:45 ◼   ► 'cause they really want members of the press

00:32:46 ◼   ► to come and get their hands on the new hardware.

00:32:48 ◼   ► And it's great when you can do that.

00:32:51 ◼   ► It's also possible that they'll do something hybrid

00:32:54 ◼   ► where they do this event, but they also schedule briefings

00:32:56 ◼   ► and maybe some of us in the East and West Coast

00:32:59 ◼   ► will get invited to be in New York or Cupertino

00:33:02 ◼   ► and get our hands on that way.

00:33:03 ◼   ► And you could do that without having a big crowd.

00:33:06 ◼   ► So I think there are options there for them to do that.

00:33:09 ◼   ► That's what I'm gonna keep watching,

00:33:11 ◼   ► but it's not surprising to think

00:33:13 ◼   ► that most of this stuff is gonna be,

00:33:14 ◼   ► if not all, prerecorded.

00:33:16 ◼   ► - So speaking of new iPads,

00:33:19 ◼   ► Mac Otakara is reporting from supply chain sources

00:33:23 ◼   ► that the new iPad Pro would feature a quote,

00:33:26 ◼   ► four pin connector on the top and bottom edges.

00:33:30 ◼   ► - Hmm, hmm.

00:33:32 ◼   ► - MagSafe?

00:33:33 ◼   ► - I think Smart Connector.

00:33:36 ◼   ► That's what I think.

00:33:37 ◼   ► I think smart connector, although MagSafe

00:33:38 ◼   ► and smart connector are, could be related.

00:33:41 ◼   ► I mean, MagSafe is in, it's a little different,

00:33:45 ◼   ► but like smart connector can do power transfer,

00:33:47 ◼   ► at least at a low level, not a high level, but a low level.

00:33:50 ◼   ► Four pin connector on top and bottom edges reads to me

00:33:54 ◼   ► like they want to do, this might be a new Apple pencil

00:33:59 ◼   ► or it might be the same Apple pencil in a new location.

00:34:02 ◼   ► And this might also be for connecting to, you know,

00:34:05 ◼   ► a new keyboard and other accessories that way, maybe.

00:34:09 ◼   ► Top and bottom seems weird to me

00:34:11 ◼   ► because the orientations are exactly the same.

00:34:13 ◼   ► - Well, this is why I don't think smart keyboard,

00:34:16 ◼   ► like, because, okay, so here's the problem.

00:34:19 ◼   ► What's top and what's bottom?

00:34:21 ◼   ► As described to the person who heard this,

00:34:26 ◼   ► this is where it becomes complicated.

00:34:27 ◼   ► - I've been thinking you could do it

00:34:29 ◼   ► on two of the side edges

00:34:33 ◼   ► so that you can have different orientations

00:34:36 ◼   ► that use those things.

00:34:38 ◼   ► We're gonna need more information here,

00:34:39 ◼   ► but it feels like this is accessory-based

00:34:42 ◼   ► and that this is probably smart connector-y in some way.

00:34:46 ◼   ► But it's, yeah, I hesitate to go down this path too much

00:34:49 ◼   ► because it's so vague and I'm not sure what I'm picturing

00:34:53 ◼   ► is essentially the smart connector moved to the sides

00:34:57 ◼   ► in place of where the Apple Pencil thing was

00:35:00 ◼   ► instead of on the back where it is now.

00:35:02 ◼   ► The disadvantage of it being on the back,

00:35:03 ◼   ► the advantage of being on the back

00:35:04 ◼   ► is that you can put a big thing back there

00:35:06 ◼   ► that includes wired in the connections

00:35:09 ◼   ► and that's what the smart keyboard does.

00:35:11 ◼   ► The disadvantage of it is you have to have

00:35:13 ◼   ► a thing back there.

00:35:14 ◼   ► Whereas, you know, there are a lot of stands

00:35:17 ◼   ► that don't necessarily have a full cover

00:35:19 ◼   ► on the back of an iPad.

00:35:21 ◼   ► You get access to it on the side.

00:35:23 ◼   ► So I could see them moving it,

00:35:26 ◼   ► but they would need to redesign everything

00:35:29 ◼   ► if they did that.

00:35:30 ◼   ► 'Cause the back connector feels very much like,

00:35:33 ◼   ► Apple put it there as a part of designing the accessory.

00:35:36 ◼   ► Like it was made for the accessory.

00:35:39 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:35:40 ◼   ► I mean, it's a weird thing,

00:35:42 ◼   ► but this is right in line with,

00:35:44 ◼   ► I think what we see from Apple with this stuff,

00:35:46 ◼   ► which is they change these kind of proprietary things

00:35:50 ◼   ► that are on iPads.

00:35:51 ◼   ► They change kind of at their own whim

00:35:54 ◼   ► if they have a good accessory story that goes around it.

00:35:57 ◼   ► And I'm not quite sure what that accessory story is here.

00:36:00 ◼   ► and whether it's a redesigned smart keyboard

00:36:02 ◼   ► or it's something with the Apple Pencil

00:36:04 ◼   ► or it's something completely different,

00:36:06 ◼   ► but are they gonna do a kind of like a dock

00:36:09 ◼   ► or a desktop-y thing?

00:36:11 ◼   ► 'Cause now there's external display support.

00:36:14 ◼   ► Is it related to charging?

00:36:16 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:36:17 ◼   ► It's interesting, but so vague.

00:36:19 ◼   ► - I don't know about the Magic Keyboard question.

00:36:23 ◼   ► I think that design is pretty good

00:36:28 ◼   ► and I would be surprised if they iterated on their design after two years.

00:36:35 ◼   ► Just like the fundamental design of how the thing works.

00:36:39 ◼   ► Because if now the connector is on the top or the bottom, or any of the sides say, that's

00:36:47 ◼   ► a new design for the Magic Keyboard.

00:36:50 ◼   ► Now it's completely different if it's no longer on the back.

00:36:53 ◼   ► So this is why I'm kind of more inclined to think

00:36:57 ◼   ► this is some kind of new accessory connector,

00:37:00 ◼   ► which also does MagSafe charging.

00:37:03 ◼   ► Like that's why I'm leaning on that.

00:37:05 ◼   ► I think that there could,

00:37:07 ◼   ► or some other accessory or whatever,

00:37:09 ◼   ► but the way that the Apple Pencil charges

00:37:12 ◼   ► and the way that the Magic Cube

00:37:14 ◼   ► will just fundamentally works,

00:37:16 ◼   ► I just think those two things

00:37:17 ◼   ► feel pretty set to me for a while.

00:37:21 ◼   ► - I sort of agree with you,

00:37:22 ◼   ► but I'm gonna just make the counterpoint here,

00:37:23 ◼   ► which is if Apple thinks that there's a better way

00:37:26 ◼   ► to do the smart keyboard, I mean, the magic keyboard

00:37:29 ◼   ► that they were not able to do before,

00:37:32 ◼   ► they're like, oh yeah, well, you know,

00:37:33 ◼   ► we had to cantilever it over and all of that.

00:37:36 ◼   ► And the reason they do that is for weight

00:37:37 ◼   ► more than anything else.

00:37:38 ◼   ► But like, if they think there's a new way to do it,

00:37:40 ◼   ► it's not beyond them at all to just say,

00:37:42 ◼   ► oh, we've got a new design,

00:37:43 ◼   ► so we want the pins to be here.

00:37:46 ◼   ► To the designers and the designers are like,

00:37:49 ◼   ► all right, okay, I guess we'll do that.

00:37:51 ◼   ► So I wouldn't put it past them, but you're right.

00:37:53 ◼   ► It is a big step to say,

00:37:54 ◼   ► we're gonna change the pencil design,

00:37:55 ◼   ► or we're gonna change the Magic Keyboard design.

00:37:58 ◼   ► And there have been rumors there

00:37:59 ◼   ► about some sort of charging thing.

00:38:01 ◼   ► And as the iPad and Mac become more cousins

00:38:06 ◼   ► than the iPad and the iPhone, right?

00:38:09 ◼   ► Where the iPad is slowly drifting closer to the Mac

00:38:12 ◼   ► and away from the iPhone, I feel like.

00:38:15 ◼   ► Even though they're based on the same operating system,

00:38:16 ◼   ► they're, you know, that's part of the iPad OS thing,

00:38:19 ◼   ► as it allows it to drift toward the Mac.

00:38:22 ◼   ► And given that MagSafe came back to the Mac,

00:38:25 ◼   ► and it's on the iPhone too,

00:38:26 ◼   ► but like if you think about MagSafe in Mac terms,

00:38:29 ◼   ► it could be, right?

00:38:31 ◼   ► It could literally be MagSafe like on the Mac

00:38:36 ◼   ► at the bottom and top of the iPad

00:38:39 ◼   ► so that you can just pop on a MagSafe connector

00:38:42 ◼   ► and charge it, yeah.

00:38:44 ◼   ► - Because what I've been thinking about on that one was like-

00:38:48 ◼   ► And I just want me, let me be clear here.

00:38:50 ◼   ► I think that's the change in orientation you need to have

00:38:54 ◼   ► in order to think about MagSafe on the iPad

00:38:56 ◼   ► is don't think about it like MagSafe on the iPhone.

00:38:59 ◼   ► Think about it like MagSafe on the Mac.

00:39:01 ◼   ► And then you look at it and you go,

00:39:03 ◼   ► oh, like maybe even the same connector,

00:39:07 ◼   ► but if not something like that

00:39:08 ◼   ► where there's like a little blob and you go boop

00:39:10 ◼   ► and attach it magnetically and it charges the iPad

00:39:13 ◼   ► because if it's good enough for the Mac,

00:39:15 ◼   ► why not for the iPad?

00:39:16 ◼   ► Not, I'm gonna lay my iPad down flat on a big puck

00:39:21 ◼   ► and it's gonna charge, different thing.

00:39:23 ◼   ► - 'Cause that's why I think it could be MagSafe

00:39:25 ◼   ► because it's on the two sides.

00:39:26 ◼   ► So then it's even better, right?

00:39:28 ◼   ► Where they'd be like, oh, if you want it to charge by USB,

00:39:30 ◼   ► you've gotta make sure it's on the,

00:39:32 ◼   ► but now with MagSafe, you could just be like, whatever.

00:39:35 ◼   ► You just do it, you just do it.

00:39:36 ◼   ► It's two different places, right?

00:39:37 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, we'll find out.

00:39:40 ◼   ► I'm intrigued by it.

00:39:40 ◼   ► I'm happy to hear they're doing something though

00:39:43 ◼   ► because it means there's maybe an interesting story to tell.

00:39:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, always good to have a,

00:39:48 ◼   ► never bet against Apple having an interesting

00:39:50 ◼   ► accessory story to tell, especially with an iPad, right?

00:39:53 ◼   ► The whole platform from the beginning has been

00:39:56 ◼   ► not just about the iPad,

00:39:57 ◼   ► but about what accessories they put with it,

00:39:59 ◼   ► for logical reasons, right?

00:40:00 ◼   ► Because the iPad is, it changes and modifies itself

00:40:03 ◼   ► based on what accessories you attach to it.

00:40:05 ◼   ► So it's part of the iPad story is the accessories.

00:40:09 ◼   ► - Going back to Mark Gurman,

00:40:10 ◼   ► Mark is reporting that Apple has two new HomePod products

00:40:14 ◼   ► in the works.

00:40:15 ◼   ► a new high-end HomePod and an updated HomePod mini. As previously reported, this new high-end

00:40:23 ◼   ► HomePod will run the same S8 chip of the future Apple Watch Series 8 and will be closer in

00:40:29 ◼   ► terms of size and audio performance to the original HomePod rather than the mini version.

00:40:35 ◼   ► Fine. The more interesting part of the report is, there are currently "at least four new

00:40:41 ◼   ► smart home devices in its labs but not all will see the light of day. Two of

00:40:47 ◼   ► these are a kitchen focused, so there's two, one is a kitchen focused device that

00:40:52 ◼   ► is a combo of a speaker and an iPad like screen. Another is a living room device

00:40:57 ◼   ► that combines an Apple TV camera and a home pod. Basically my two dream devices.

00:41:03 ◼   ► Mm-hmm yeah these and we've talked about them both on upgrade in detail but the

00:41:07 ◼   ► idea is one is like an Amazon echo except it's from Apple it's a home pod

00:41:11 ◼   ► and an iPad kind of style screen although whether it would run iPad OS or

00:41:15 ◼   ► maybe tv OS and it would presumably have a camera and it would be a FaceTime

00:41:20 ◼   ► device so a Siri and FaceTime kind of thing in the kitchen that sort of thing

00:41:27 ◼   ► and then the other one is the the Apple TV HomePod combo soundbar whatever thing

00:41:33 ◼   ► that also does FaceTime, which I'm really interested in that. Like, I agree with you,

00:41:41 ◼   ► these are both pretty interesting and I might want both of these. I think, though, that

00:41:51 ◼   ► what I really am curious about is how Apple is testing these and trying them out, because

00:41:56 ◼   ► it's all in the details, right? I know it's always all in the details. But if you just

00:42:00 ◼   ► tell me with no not a lot of details oh Apple's gonna do a thing that you put by

00:42:04 ◼   ► your TV and it's got a camera and it's a sound bar and it's an Apple TV and you

00:42:08 ◼   ► attach it and it does all those things and it's great it's like a home pod plus

00:42:11 ◼   ► Apple TV plus FaceTime camera all together I would say great right but

00:42:16 ◼   ► like it's all about the details what does it look like where does it fit

00:42:19 ◼   ► what are its features what is it omitting that it's gonna disappoint me

00:42:21 ◼   ► like could I could I actually use it I don't know and the kitchen one is the

00:42:25 ◼   ► same way like how do you interact with it is it like there's an Apple TV in

00:42:28 ◼   ► your kitchen? Or is it like there's an iPad in your kitchen? And you know, how

00:42:32 ◼   ► much of it is navigated by voice and how much of it is navigated by touch? Because

00:42:36 ◼   ► the Amazon thing I've got in my kitchen, I almost never touch. And when I do, it's

00:42:41 ◼   ► because something's gone horribly wrong and I need to bring down the menu or

00:42:45 ◼   ► cancel something or go to the settings or something like that. So that's, those

00:42:50 ◼   ► are all the questions I've got as well. Okay, great. Mark's talked about these

00:42:54 ◼   ► before, they're still floating out there. They're still intriguing. I would like

00:42:59 ◼   ► Apple to do both of them because I feel like there's something there, but it may

00:43:04 ◼   ► be that, you know, if they don't come to pass it may be because Apple goes

00:43:09 ◼   ► through them and goes, "Oh, this just isn't good enough," or "It doesn't make

00:43:13 ◼   ► enough sense," but I'm glad that they're investigating them because I think

00:43:17 ◼   ► both of them have a lot of potential given all of the features Apple already

00:43:21 ◼   ► has in its ecosystem, all the different component parts exist for these

00:43:24 ◼   ► products. They just have to put it together in an interesting way that is in a product

00:43:28 ◼   ► that is something they could actually sell for a reasonable price so that people actually

00:43:31 ◼   ► buy it.

00:43:32 ◼   ► Mark believes that at least one of these products would launch by the end of 2023 or early 2024.

00:43:39 ◼   ► Yeah, don't get, you know, don't put away some money for this for Christmas. It's not

00:43:43 ◼   ► gonna happen. 2023 maybe.

00:43:47 ◼   ► And Ming-Chi Kuo's released an updated research note for Apple's upcoming headset. Kuo currently

00:43:52 ◼   ► expects that Apple will hold an event in January of 2023 to announce the device. I assume this

00:43:58 ◼   ► is based on like when manufacture is planned.

00:44:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:04 ◼   ► I don't know, right? This is one of those things where like we wonder like, Kuo's...

00:44:09 ◼   ► How does he know?

00:44:10 ◼   ► Kuo knows like what's going on on the supply chain. I don't know if that could necessarily

00:44:14 ◼   ► tell you when an event's gonna be, but there you go. Guess around that timeframe. And Kuo

00:44:21 ◼   ► also expects it to cost now between 2000 to $2,500.

00:44:26 ◼   ► That's cheaper than we've heard in the past.

00:44:29 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:44:30 ◼   ► - Because of this, it would be a niche device

00:44:31 ◼   ► and there is expectations for about one and a half million

00:44:36 ◼   ► of them to be shipped in 2023.

00:44:38 ◼   ► - Oh boy.

00:44:40 ◼   ► That's, you know, that's 3 billion in revenue.

00:44:44 ◼   ► For wearables, home and accessories, I guess.

00:44:48 ◼   ► Put it, slide it in there.

00:44:50 ◼   ► niche device. I think we've all expected this for a little while now. And it'll be interesting

00:44:54 ◼   ► when this gets announced that for the mainstream media to react and say, Oh my God, I can't

00:44:58 ◼   ► believe it. But like, I think it's been clear that Apple's goal with this product is to

00:45:01 ◼   ► make something that's up to their standards and they're a little less concerned about

00:45:05 ◼   ► the price. And what's interesting is when you see what Meta is doing, you realize they're

00:45:08 ◼   ► doing the same thing, right? Which is they raised the price on their low end headset,

00:45:12 ◼   ► but they're also working on a high end headset. Cause I think Apple at this point is sort

00:45:17 ◼   ► of like, we need to set the bar about where we think that this is a usable product. And

00:45:21 ◼   ► then I would assume over time, as the product line goes along, it will come down in price,

00:45:28 ◼   ► or at least versions of it will come down in price. Because I think, you know, I know

00:45:32 ◼   ► we talk about Apple making a lot of money and not going too far down market, but a $2,000

00:45:36 ◼   ► headset, $2,500 headset is probably too much to spur this along. But you start there. And

00:45:45 ◼   ► I think you imagine that the supply chain and the parts and all that and your knowledge

00:45:50 ◼   ► about it and what sensors you thought were necessary that weren't and all that kind of

00:45:54 ◼   ► like leads you down a path where a year or two after that you've got a split product

00:45:58 ◼   ► line with a couple different models, one of which is more affordable and you go from there.

00:46:03 ◼   ► But yeah, nobody get their hopes up for a $500 Apple headset because that's not going

00:46:07 ◼   ► to happen.

00:46:08 ◼   ► David: This feels somewhat like a learning from the Apple Watch to me kind of like you

00:46:13 ◼   ► You can't launch a product and expect it to be the iPhone.

00:46:16 ◼   ► It's just not going to happen.

00:46:19 ◼   ► Like where you launch this thing and it's just like everyone wants it and it blows the

00:46:23 ◼   ► doors off immediately and everyone's losing their minds.

00:46:26 ◼   ► What's more likely is you launch a product that is hard to get out there so it's more

00:46:31 ◼   ► expensive and then you work out a little bit more of the story based upon how people use

00:46:37 ◼   ► it, what developers are adopting it, what developers are doing with it.

00:46:41 ◼   ► So then for revision 2, revision 3, you've got a much more concise understanding, right?

00:46:45 ◼   ► Because Apple Watch initially, fashion device that can unlock doors for you physically in

00:46:50 ◼   ► hotels and it's going to do everything and you're going to talk to your friends by sending

00:46:55 ◼   ► them pictures of fish and like all that kind of stuff.

00:46:57 ◼   ► And then a couple of versions later it's like, hey, this is a health and fitness device that

00:47:01 ◼   ► can also read to you text messages.

00:47:03 ◼   ► And you know what?

00:47:04 ◼   ► When they work that out, then they started selling way more of them.

00:47:07 ◼   ► So I expect this to be somewhat similar and Apple's preparing for that upfront maybe?

00:47:14 ◼   ► Because you know, I know this 1.5 million sounds like a lot.

00:47:17 ◼   ► It's not a lot for Apple.

00:47:18 ◼   ► I think there's a lesson here that's almost maybe like a lesson from the Newton, which

00:47:22 ◼   ► is better to, if it's not a good experience below a certain price, don't come out with

00:47:29 ◼   ► a bad experience.

00:47:31 ◼   ► Like we shipped a lot of it, we sold a lot of them, but everybody hated it, is not something

00:47:35 ◼   ► that Apple wants to do strategically, right?

00:47:37 ◼   ► was really excited and they spent five, we got the price down to $900 and we got a lot

00:47:41 ◼   ► more people to buy it. But because we had to cut it in so many different ways, the experience

00:47:46 ◼   ► was bad. I honestly think that Apple's strategy with this product has always been that there

00:47:51 ◼   ► is a certain level below which they won't go because they don't think people will accept

00:47:55 ◼   ► it as a good product. And so I think their goal is it's going to be too expensive but

00:48:00 ◼   ► good. And then the next step after that has to be how do we get it to be less expensive

00:48:06 ◼   ► or more necessary so that people wanna buy it.

00:48:09 ◼   ► And I think that's gonna take some time.

00:48:12 ◼   ► The risk, the counterargument is something like the HomePod,

00:48:15 ◼   ► which was too expensive and even though it was good,

00:48:18 ◼   ► people kind of rejected it.

00:48:19 ◼   ► But the HomePod was not mission critical for Apple

00:48:23 ◼   ► in a way that this is.

00:48:24 ◼   ► I think that Apple's gonna be in this for the long haul.

00:48:26 ◼   ► If it doesn't sell well upfront, they're not gonna say,

00:48:29 ◼   ► "Well, that was it, we're out of the AR business."

00:48:31 ◼   ► I think they're in this for years to come.

00:48:33 ◼   ► And so the first one is gonna be like them

00:48:35 ◼   ► putting down their chips for the first round,

00:48:39 ◼   ► but they're in it for the long game.

00:48:40 ◼   ► - I also think that this has a potential larger audience

00:48:44 ◼   ► than the HomePod ever could as well,

00:48:46 ◼   ► like of people that might want something like this

00:48:49 ◼   ► because it's interesting to them in some way,

00:48:52 ◼   ► where I feel like the HomePod is not so much

00:48:55 ◼   ► because it's like, why would I want that

00:48:57 ◼   ► when I could just get a Bluetooth speaker?

00:48:59 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:49:00 ◼   ► - And there isn't a Bluetooth speaker version

00:49:02 ◼   ► of this type of thing.

00:49:04 ◼   ► - Exactly, also I'd say, well, I mean,

00:49:07 ◼   ► maybe the Bluetooth, that's a bad analogy,

00:49:09 ◼   ► but like a meta quest to, or a PSVR or something like that.

00:49:14 ◼   ► - That's the Amazon Echo or the Google Home

00:49:19 ◼   ► to the HomePod rather than, you know.

00:49:21 ◼   ► - That's fair, that's fair.

00:49:22 ◼   ► So I think that's gonna be a challenge on their point.

00:49:25 ◼   ► You know, in the, David in our discord said

00:49:28 ◼   ► they think they're gonna sell one and a half million

00:49:32 ◼   ► at that price.

00:49:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:49:34 ◼   ► - I think Apple, how shall I put this?

00:49:38 ◼   ► A hot new Apple product in a new wizzy category

00:49:41 ◼   ► that is pricey and so only some people

00:49:44 ◼   ► are gonna be able to get it

00:49:45 ◼   ► and you can get in on the ground floor

00:49:47 ◼   ► for somebody who doesn't really care that it costs $2,000.

00:49:50 ◼   ► Like Apple can sell, I really believe Apple could sell

00:49:54 ◼   ► a large number of almost anything,

00:49:57 ◼   ► especially something that is hot and new and pricey

00:50:01 ◼   ► because a lot of Apple's customers don't care about price.

00:50:04 ◼   ► They're not price sensitive at all.

00:50:06 ◼   ► And so I don't think that's unreasonable

00:50:09 ◼   ► to say a million and a half units in a year

00:50:12 ◼   ► of the brand new Apple thing.

00:50:14 ◼   ► Maybe they'll be off by a little bit,

00:50:16 ◼   ► but I'm never gonna underestimate Apple's ability

00:50:19 ◼   ► to sell a product like this to the hardest core

00:50:24 ◼   ► of its audience who are the least price sensitive.

00:50:26 ◼   ► There'll be a hot app and there'll be people

00:50:28 ◼   ► talking about it and there'll be some new thing and there'll be videos about like,

00:50:32 ◼   ► "Oh, here's this amazing thing that the Apple thing does."

00:50:35 ◼   ► That'll drive some sales.

00:50:36 ◼   ► And again, we're not talking about 20 million in sales.

00:50:38 ◼   ► We're talking about a million and a half.

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00:52:25 ◼   ► We'll go back to Mark Gurman again, talk about something different this time.

00:52:30 ◼   ► It's kind of a rumor but a little bit not and I wanted to give it a bit more air to

00:52:33 ◼   ► breathe which is that iPadOS 16 is likely to be delayed according to Mark Gurman with

00:52:44 ◼   ► the main reason for this to be stage manager needing more work before shipping out widely

00:52:49 ◼   ► is what Mark is saying that Apple believes.

00:52:52 ◼   ► And it is now expected that iPadOS 16 will ship about a month later than the iPhone.

00:52:57 ◼   ► I wanted to get your reaction to this.

00:53:00 ◼   ► I feel for people like our friend James Thompson, who was quoted by Marc in his newsletter,

00:53:06 ◼   ► misspelled his name, saying the problem with this is if you're an iOS developer and you're

00:53:11 ◼   ► building a universal app, so it runs on iPad and iPhone, now you're in this position where

00:53:14 ◼   ► you're like, "What do I do?" because you're going to have the iPhone out there before

00:53:21 ◼   ► the iPad. I feel like, though, what I said earlier about the Apple kind of like

00:53:27 ◼   ► taking, wrenching iPadOS further away from the iPhone and pushing it toward

00:53:31 ◼   ► the Mac and the iPad hardware as well, I feel like this is in line with that,

00:53:35 ◼   ► right? Like Stage Manager is a feature on Mac and iPad, not iPhone. And so in

00:53:40 ◼   ► addition to the fact that Stage Manager, I think obviously they want more time

00:53:44 ◼   ► with it to do it right, and I think that's good because they could use it.

00:53:49 ◼   ► giving that more time.

00:53:51 ◼   ► And also like Mac OS already,

00:53:54 ◼   ► like James's problem is only magnified by this,

00:53:58 ◼   ► but it's not created by this

00:53:59 ◼   ► because we have had for years now,

00:54:02 ◼   ► all the brand new OS stuff for iOS and iPad OS ship

00:54:05 ◼   ► in September and Mac OS not shipped till October.

00:54:08 ◼   ► And so for a month,

00:54:09 ◼   ► the Mac just can't do any of those things.

00:54:12 ◼   ► So all that's different here is that it'll be the Mac

00:54:15 ◼   ► and the iPad that can't do those things.

00:54:17 ◼   ► And so it's a problem that will be magnified

00:54:20 ◼   ► because it's a shared app platform

00:54:23 ◼   ► between the iPhone and the iPad.

00:54:25 ◼   ► But it honestly doesn't bother me.

00:54:27 ◼   ► The new iPads are rumored to come out,

00:54:30 ◼   ► a new iPad at least, in October,

00:54:32 ◼   ► possibly at the same event.

00:54:33 ◼   ► Having a single event with macOS and iPadOS launching

00:54:37 ◼   ► and new Macs and new iPads kinda makes sense.

00:54:40 ◼   ► - I think it makes sense.

00:54:41 ◼   ► - So on a messaging standpoint,

00:54:43 ◼   ► and I give Stage Manager more time standpoint,

00:54:46 ◼   ► And honestly, giving the iPad a little more love

00:54:50 ◼   ► after the crunch to get the iPhone shipped,

00:54:53 ◼   ► 'cause the iPhone, again, we love the iPad,

00:54:57 ◼   ► we love the Mac.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Never forget that half of Apple's business is the iPhone,

00:55:01 ◼   ► and it will always take priority.

00:55:03 ◼   ► So I've become a big fan in the last few years

00:55:06 ◼   ► of allowing the iPhone,

00:55:08 ◼   ► which is the elephant in the room,

00:55:12 ◼   ► allowing the iPhone to do its thing

00:55:15 ◼   ► when it needs to do its thing

00:55:17 ◼   ► and getting the other products time,

00:55:20 ◼   ► some other time to do their thing.

00:55:23 ◼   ► Because if you're the iPad and you're like,

00:55:25 ◼   ► "But, but, but I have to fix this iPad feature

00:55:26 ◼   ► before we ship, I've got to fix it, I got to fix it."

00:55:29 ◼   ► And they're like, "No, you must do the iPhone things

00:55:33 ◼   ► 'cause we got iPhones to sell."

00:55:35 ◼   ► And it's the most important feature,

00:55:37 ◼   ► your most important product in our company.

00:55:39 ◼   ► The iPad will never win that argument, never.

00:55:43 ◼   ► So if this opens up a window where sometime, possibly now,

00:55:47 ◼   ► they set aside some of the iPad stuff,

00:55:50 ◼   ► work on getting the final shipping version,

00:55:52 ◼   ► 'cause remember they're working way ahead of us,

00:55:54 ◼   ► final shipping version of iOS that will go on those phones

00:55:58 ◼   ► that are being manufactured now.

00:56:01 ◼   ► And then also all the bug cleanup for the version

00:56:03 ◼   ► that will be there the day that they ship

00:56:05 ◼   ► that you're gonna need to update.

00:56:07 ◼   ► And then when they lock that one down,

00:56:10 ◼   ► they are then kind of wrapping up the iPad project

00:56:14 ◼   ► and doing the work on that.

00:56:16 ◼   ► Like kind of makes too much sense.

00:56:19 ◼   ► And I think it's actually good for the iPad

00:56:21 ◼   ► to get out from under the iPhone crunch.

00:56:24 ◼   ► 'Cause in the iPhone crunch,

00:56:25 ◼   ► only the iPhone should matter and does matter.

00:56:28 ◼   ► - So I took this debate straight to James Thompson

00:56:33 ◼   ► a couple of days ago.

00:56:35 ◼   ► - I don't agree when this is a funny thing to say,

00:56:40 ◼   ► considering I'm telling him how he feels.

00:56:43 ◼   ► I don't necessarily agree with--

00:56:47 ◼   ► - You're feeling it wrong, James, you're feeling it wrong.

00:56:49 ◼   ► - The idea that there would be some kind of issue

00:56:51 ◼   ► for most developers about iPad coming out at a different time

00:56:54 ◼   ► like if what you're doing for your iPad app

00:56:58 ◼   ► is supporting stage manager,

00:57:01 ◼   ► iPad being delayed is not like your app's not gonna work.

00:57:04 ◼   ► Like, this is only an issue if you require iPad OS 16

00:57:07 ◼   ► or some iPad OS 16 technology in your application,

00:57:10 ◼   ► which most developers wouldn't do

00:57:11 ◼   ► because that's a bad business move, right?

00:57:13 ◼   ► To be like, this is only gonna run on iPad OS 16 now.

00:57:16 ◼   ► Like, under typical circumstances,

00:57:19 ◼   ► this app can still just run as normal on an iPad.

00:57:23 ◼   ► Like, you have to, as a developer, right,

00:57:25 ◼   ► and like, I know that James would do this,

00:57:27 ◼   ► confirm that your app's gonna work on 15

00:57:29 ◼   ► after you do an update.

00:57:31 ◼   ► So, this is no different.

00:57:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, I-- - Right?

00:57:35 ◼   ► - And here to answer that question is James Notenese.

00:57:37 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:57:38 ◼   ► - I mean, me and James have already had this conversation

00:57:41 ◼   ► and we have decided we disagree.

00:57:43 ◼   ► But that's kind of my view on it.

00:57:46 ◼   ► I don't know why this would make any specific difference

00:57:49 ◼   ► because unless you are a developer

00:57:51 ◼   ► that is specifically targeting some iPad OS 16 feature

00:57:55 ◼   ► and you're cutting off the rest of your user base

00:57:57 ◼   ► on the day that iPad OS comes out,

00:57:58 ◼   ► like this isn't gonna make a difference to you

00:58:00 ◼   ► because you still have to make sure

00:58:02 ◼   ► it's gonna work on iPadOS 15

00:58:04 ◼   ► when the iPadOS 16 version comes out anyway.

00:58:08 ◼   ► James is saying that I'm wrong,

00:58:09 ◼   ► but I don't think I am.

00:58:10 ◼   ► So until he can prove otherwise,

00:58:13 ◼   ► I'm gonna assume I'm right.

00:58:14 ◼   ► - Well, the approach I took is,

00:58:17 ◼   ► I feel for developers like James

00:58:19 ◼   ► that are put in this situation.

00:58:20 ◼   ► From a user in Apple perspective,

00:58:23 ◼   ► it kind of makes sense.

00:58:24 ◼   ► But the challenge for developers like James

00:58:27 ◼   ► is that they're gonna have to make decisions

00:58:29 ◼   ► that may impact their users.

00:58:30 ◼   ► And I feel bad about that.

00:58:32 ◼   ► but I think we're all gonna need to get used to it

00:58:34 ◼   ► because this feels kind of like the right thing to do

00:58:37 ◼   ► from that larger perspective.

00:58:38 ◼   ► And it's on Apple to,

00:58:41 ◼   ► and this is I think an important point to make,

00:58:43 ◼   ► it's on Apple,

00:58:44 ◼   ► if this is an issue for developers like James,

00:58:47 ◼   ► Apple should make this not an issue

00:58:48 ◼   ► for developers like James.

00:58:50 ◼   ► I don't know how, some other way of doing it

00:58:52 ◼   ► where he can take his universal app,

00:58:55 ◼   ► but it's actually a different version

00:58:56 ◼   ► that goes to the iPad than the iPhone.

00:58:59 ◼   ► And that it gets split off like a little bit more

00:59:02 ◼   ► so that he can, even though it's one app in the App Store,

00:59:05 ◼   ► or perhaps across all App Stores, which he doesn't do,

00:59:08 ◼   ► 'cause he doesn't want to do it that way, and that's fine,

00:59:10 ◼   ► but have that ability to sort of like control it.

00:59:13 ◼   ► Maybe there are better ideas than that.

00:59:14 ◼   ► I just made that up.

00:59:15 ◼   ► But the idea of, you know,

00:59:16 ◼   ► if Apple's going to do this every time,

00:59:18 ◼   ► and it's going to put developers like James in a spot,

00:59:21 ◼   ► maybe Apple should find a way to give them tools

00:59:23 ◼   ► so that they're not stuck.

00:59:24 ◼   ► How about that?

00:59:26 ◼   ► - Still not sure how they will be stuck.

00:59:28 ◼   ► 'Cause I just don't see it.

00:59:29 ◼   ► I don't, I can't, I can't, I can't conceive of it.

00:59:31 ◼   ► - Right, 'cause unless he's shipping an app

00:59:33 ◼   ► that doesn't work on iPad OS 16,

00:59:36 ◼   ► if he ships his app on iOS 16 and it goes to iPad OS 16,

00:59:40 ◼   ► it'll still work just like the old version

00:59:44 ◼   ► because he's maintained compatibility.

00:59:46 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:59:47 ◼   ► - But James can't answer himself, so.

00:59:49 ◼   ► - It's impossible, unfortunately it's impossible,

00:59:52 ◼   ► so we're just gonna have to move on.

00:59:54 ◼   ► Do you agree with the idea of delaying it

00:59:57 ◼   ► for Sage Manager's sake?

01:00:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, like I said, I agree with it

01:00:01 ◼   ► because I think getting out from under the iPhone

01:00:04 ◼   ► is good for the iPad.

01:00:05 ◼   ► That any decision about iPad features

01:00:08 ◼   ► when they're crunching to get it on to iPhones

01:00:11 ◼   ► is going to, the iPad is gonna lose.

01:00:14 ◼   ► So I support this.

01:00:18 ◼   ► And the Mac's already there, right?

01:00:20 ◼   ► I mean, that's the other part of this,

01:00:21 ◼   ► is that the Mac's already on this cycle.

01:00:24 ◼   ► And it's annoying in a way, but it's fine.

01:00:27 ◼   ► I think it's okay.

01:00:28 ◼   ► - But like, do you think that it needs it?

01:00:30 ◼   ► Like, do you think that it needs this time

01:00:33 ◼   ► for stage managers?

01:00:34 ◼   ► Do you find stage manager to be a feature

01:00:36 ◼   ► that could do with a lot more work?

01:00:38 ◼   ► - I mean, it's a work in progress for sure.

01:00:40 ◼   ► It's gonna need more work beyond the fall, right?

01:00:42 ◼   ► It's gonna need more work.

01:00:43 ◼   ► I hope they can just keep refining it

01:00:46 ◼   ► and don't just leave it in its finished state for a year.

01:00:49 ◼   ► It's funny because I saw Federico Vittucci

01:00:53 ◼   ► tweet about how he felt like it had gotten more buggy lately.

01:00:59 ◼   ► And I think he's right.

01:01:01 ◼   ► But my feeling about it is that it's also gotten more

01:01:04 ◼   ► refined and works better lately,

01:01:08 ◼   ► or at least when it works, it works better.

01:01:11 ◼   ► So I think they're making progress in doing so.

01:01:14 ◼   ► I think they're breaking things that are causing the bugs

01:01:17 ◼   ► that Federico sees.

01:01:19 ◼   ► There are also some bugs that have been there

01:01:20 ◼   ► since the beginning in terms of where windows go,

01:01:23 ◼   ► when you do things, it's like,

01:01:25 ◼   ► it's what I said a while ago about the Mac,

01:01:28 ◼   ► which is the Mac is a system that's got windowing down,

01:01:31 ◼   ► has been doing windowing for almost 40 years.

01:01:34 ◼   ► And so when you put stage manager on it,

01:01:37 ◼   ► the windowing all makes sense.

01:01:39 ◼   ► And then on the iPad, it has no windowing to speak of.

01:01:43 ◼   ► And there are all these places where you do something

01:01:48 ◼   ► that's supposed to spawn a Safari window,

01:01:49 ◼   ► and you've got another Safari window

01:01:51 ◼   ► in your stage manager view, and it doesn't go there,

01:01:55 ◼   ► but instead opens a new Safari window in a different view,

01:01:57 ◼   ► and you're like, why would you do that?

01:01:59 ◼   ► And the answer is, 'cause it's the iPad

01:02:01 ◼   ► and it doesn't have that infrastructure around it.

01:02:03 ◼   ► So, they got a lot of work to do.

01:02:06 ◼   ► I feel like they're making some interface improvements,

01:02:08 ◼   ► like adding features, but Federico's right,

01:02:11 ◼   ► it's also really buggy.

01:02:12 ◼   ► So, the more time it has for them to grind away on it,

01:02:16 ◼   ► the better.

01:02:17 ◼   ► I find it funny, Mark Gurman hates Stage Manager.

01:02:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, he really does.

01:02:22 ◼   ► - He really hates it.

01:02:23 ◼   ► In his newsletter, he complains about it all the time.

01:02:25 ◼   ► And the piece of evidence that he gives

01:02:27 ◼   ► that I find the most baffling is he says,

01:02:30 ◼   ► "Even Apple knows Stage Manager sucks

01:02:32 ◼   ► because they have a button in Control Center

01:02:35 ◼   ► to turn it on and off."

01:02:37 ◼   ► - No. - It's like Mark.

01:02:38 ◼   ► No, no, it's a mode, it's great.

01:02:41 ◼   ► The reason that it's like that is because most iPad users

01:02:45 ◼   ► won't want to use Stage Manager.

01:02:47 ◼   ► They are used to single window mode

01:02:49 ◼   ► and they're very happy with it.

01:02:51 ◼   ► And that's what the iPad is to them.

01:02:53 ◼   ► And if you introduce this windowing mode to everybody,

01:02:56 ◼   ► most of your iPad users will be like,

01:02:57 ◼   ► "What the hell is going on?

01:02:58 ◼   ► I don't want this."

01:02:59 ◼   ► And then they're going to spend the next,

01:03:01 ◼   ► you know, rest of their time using the iPad,

01:03:03 ◼   ► tapping Zoom on every single one of their apps

01:03:06 ◼   ► to get them back to full screen,

01:03:07 ◼   ► if they can figure that out.

01:03:09 ◼   ► So the control center thing is not there

01:03:12 ◼   ► because they're not proud of center stage,

01:03:15 ◼   ► or sorry, stage manager, I did it.

01:03:17 ◼   ► It's not that at all.

01:03:19 ◼   ► - What I find funny is that prior to this,

01:03:22 ◼   ► Mark was talking about wanting to have a pro mode,

01:03:24 ◼   ► like a button that you press

01:03:26 ◼   ► that turn the iPad into pro mode.

01:03:28 ◼   ► I think he, so it is doing that.

01:03:30 ◼   ► I think he just doesn't like that it's do not,

01:03:32 ◼   ► he doesn't like what it's doing.

01:03:35 ◼   ► But that's just funny to me that that's a reason

01:03:37 ◼   ► because that was something that he was suggesting

01:03:40 ◼   ► they should do.

01:03:41 ◼   ► - So he's so cranky about it, because he doesn't like it,

01:03:43 ◼   ► that he says, aha, look, they hate it.

01:03:45 ◼   ► They're hiding it behind a button in control center

01:03:47 ◼   ► and it's dumb because that's not, that's no,

01:03:50 ◼   ► that's not why.

01:03:51 ◼   ► And I think that they're actually kind of proud of it,

01:03:54 ◼   ► but they're also realize it would break the interface

01:03:57 ◼   ► for every iPad user in a way

01:03:59 ◼   ► that most iPad users don't want.

01:04:01 ◼   ► It's also not on by default on the Mac.

01:04:03 ◼   ► Are they ashamed of it on the Mac too?

01:04:05 ◼   ► I don't think they are.

01:04:06 ◼   ► I think that they think this is a mode

01:04:07 ◼   ► like many other modes that you can turn on and off.

01:04:10 ◼   ► And I actually think it's gonna be pretty decent,

01:04:13 ◼   ► but it's got a lot of bugs

01:04:14 ◼   ► and a lot of weird things about it,

01:04:15 ◼   ► and it's gonna take time.

01:04:17 ◼   ► So we'll see.

01:04:19 ◼   ► Myke, I wanna take a moment here

01:04:21 ◼   ► to channel James Thompson.

01:04:23 ◼   ► Okay, just 'cause we have not given him his say

01:04:26 ◼   ► and I'm gonna channel it here, which is,

01:04:27 ◼   ► he has a very nuanced reason why this is an issue,

01:04:31 ◼   ► which is if you ship an app in September for iOS,

01:04:34 ◼   ► that's linked against the iOS and iPadOS 16 SDK,

01:04:39 ◼   ► that code will run on iPadOS 16,

01:04:44 ◼   ► even if it's not tested with the final build.

01:04:47 ◼   ► So his issue here is he can release it for the iPhone

01:04:51 ◼   ► But the iPad OS is still in beta,

01:04:53 ◼   ► and when it goes final and gets pushed out to everybody,

01:04:56 ◼   ► he, however it works on the iPad

01:05:00 ◼   ► and however broken it might be,

01:05:02 ◼   ► it'll just start working on those updated iPads.

01:05:05 ◼   ► And he wants to test it and control that experience

01:05:10 ◼   ► and not have it be broken,

01:05:12 ◼   ► because then he's gonna get a bunch of bad app reviews

01:05:14 ◼   ► for his iPad app.

01:05:15 ◼   ► It was like, "Oh, I updated iOS 16

01:05:17 ◼   ► "and now Peacock doesn't work."

01:05:19 ◼   ► When the truth is it doesn't work

01:05:20 ◼   ► because it doesn't have the GM.

01:05:21 ◼   ► - I still don't understand how that's different.

01:05:24 ◼   ► Like, what's the difference?

01:05:26 ◼   ► - Well, I think the difference in part is that

01:05:28 ◼   ► he's got days, or sometimes it's a day,

01:05:31 ◼   ► or maybe it's a week, to run on the final build

01:05:33 ◼   ► before it goes out and make any changes he needs to change

01:05:37 ◼   ► so that it works properly

01:05:38 ◼   ► when the regular users update to it.

01:05:41 ◼   ► And that this is turning it to zero, literally zero,

01:05:45 ◼   ► because it's already out there.

01:05:46 ◼   ► He can't control it, he can't gate it and say,

01:05:48 ◼   ► "I'm not gonna release this until I've cleared all the bugs

01:05:50 ◼   ► "because it will already be released."

01:05:53 ◼   ► I think that's his issue.

01:05:54 ◼   ► Anyway, James, you can write.

01:05:57 ◼   ► All right, well, it's out there.

01:05:58 ◼   ► People can judge themselves.

01:06:00 ◼   ► Anyway, I'm fine with it. - An unfortunate part

01:06:02 ◼   ► of all of this is, and I feel for all developers

01:06:06 ◼   ► of all kinds of things now, it doesn't matter.

01:06:08 ◼   ► This is what they're gonna do.

01:06:09 ◼   ► You just gotta get used to it, you know?

01:06:10 ◼   ► - And what we've said all along is,

01:06:13 ◼   ► and developers know this better than anyone,

01:06:14 ◼   ► what is the pecking order in terms of Apple's priorities?

01:06:17 ◼   ► It is one, Apple.

01:06:19 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:06:20 ◼   ► - Two, customers of Apple.

01:06:22 ◼   ► Three, developers.

01:06:24 ◼   ► And this is a move that I think makes sense

01:06:26 ◼   ► for one and two.

01:06:27 ◼   ► Sorry, three.

01:06:28 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:06:29 ◼   ► Like that's, but what else is new?

01:06:31 ◼   ► This is how it is with that.

01:06:33 ◼   ► So that's where we are.

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01:08:21 ◼   ► It is time for some #AskUpgrade questions to finish out today's episode.

01:08:27 ◼   ► First one comes from Chris.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Chris says "I, like Jason, love the iPhone mini."

01:08:34 ◼   ► Yay Jason.

01:08:35 ◼   ► "Have you decided how long you think you might keep your iPhone 13 mini?

01:08:41 ◼   ► What do you think it's gonna take for you to move

01:08:43 ◼   ► to a larger phone size?

01:08:46 ◼   ► - It's kind of an unfair question just because,

01:08:48 ◼   ► or at least I'm gonna give an unfair answer.

01:08:50 ◼   ► How about that?

01:08:51 ◼   ► I buy a new iPhone for myself every other year.

01:08:54 ◼   ► This year was my year to do it,

01:08:57 ◼   ► or last fall was my year to do it.

01:08:58 ◼   ► So I bought an iPhone 13 mini,

01:09:00 ◼   ► knowing I would keep it for two years at least.

01:09:03 ◼   ► Maybe I'll keep it longer, I don't know.

01:09:04 ◼   ► However, I'm a cheater because I get the iPhones

01:09:08 ◼   ► every fall from Apple.

01:09:09 ◼   ► thank you for making me part of your review program.

01:09:12 ◼   ► I don't have to buy many iPhones.

01:09:14 ◼   ► They send me the iPhones and I review them.

01:09:16 ◼   ► And that means I get to use all the iPhones for a while.

01:09:19 ◼   ► And that's really nice.

01:09:21 ◼   ► But my personal owned iPhone will be the 13 mini

01:09:24 ◼   ► and I don't anticipate buying one of these new ones

01:09:27 ◼   ► 'cause I just don't,

01:09:28 ◼   ► I've kept myself on the two year cycle

01:09:30 ◼   ► just because I think that that's fair.

01:09:34 ◼   ► I'm also buying a new iPhone for my son this fall

01:09:38 ◼   ► as he goes off to college.

01:09:39 ◼   ► So he's gonna have to,

01:09:40 ◼   ► I'm spending the money there this time instead.

01:09:44 ◼   ► What will it take for me to move to a larger size iPhone?

01:09:47 ◼   ► My guess is that the agglomeration of new features

01:09:50 ◼   ► over the next two years will be what gets me to do it,

01:09:52 ◼   ► that I'll be sad to give up the mini.

01:09:54 ◼   ► - Well, and that there won't be one.

01:09:56 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:09:57 ◼   ► It's also like, you know, if you wanna get a new phone,

01:10:00 ◼   ► you eventually have to move.

01:10:01 ◼   ► - Yes, but I could also not get a new phone, right?

01:10:04 ◼   ► That's the thing. - How long though?

01:10:05 ◼   ► when the iPhone 15 comes out and it's two years,

01:10:09 ◼   ► will I buy a new phone or will I keep it?

01:10:11 ◼   ► I could keep the iPhone.

01:10:12 ◼   ► My guess is that in two years,

01:10:14 ◼   ► all the new features that have been rolled

01:10:15 ◼   ► into the iPhone 14 and 15,

01:10:17 ◼   ► and keep in mind the rumors are

01:10:18 ◼   ► the 15 will be one of those big,

01:10:20 ◼   ► kind of like new generations with new cameras

01:10:23 ◼   ► and the periscope might be in there

01:10:25 ◼   ► and all that kind of stuff.

01:10:26 ◼   ► And I don't have ProMotion.

01:10:28 ◼   ► And I don't have all these other features

01:10:30 ◼   ► because I have an iPhone 13 mini.

01:10:32 ◼   ► My guess is that in two years,

01:10:34 ◼   ► when it's time for me traditionally to buy a new iPhone,

01:10:38 ◼   ► I'm gonna look at some version of the iPhone 15

01:10:41 ◼   ► and say, all right, I'll do it.

01:10:43 ◼   ► And that's my guess.

01:10:46 ◼   ► Is it possible that I will look at them and say,

01:10:49 ◼   ► I can wait a year.

01:10:53 ◼   ► Maybe, it's possible, anything's possible.

01:10:55 ◼   ► Again, one of the fortunate things

01:10:57 ◼   ► about doing this as my job is that

01:10:58 ◼   ► if I need to refer to something

01:10:59 ◼   ► on one of the brand new pieces of hardware,

01:11:01 ◼   ► I have them, at least for a while, and I can do that.

01:11:04 ◼   ► I don't need to actually buy the new pieces of hardware

01:11:06 ◼   ► just for reference because that's my job.

01:11:09 ◼   ► So I might be able to put it off longer,

01:11:12 ◼   ► but if I know myself and analyze myself,

01:11:15 ◼   ► that would be my guess is that in two years,

01:11:17 ◼   ► when it's time for me to traditionally buy a new phone,

01:11:21 ◼   ► I will buy a new phone and it will be probably an iPhone 15.

01:11:26 ◼   ► That said, if there's a rumor

01:11:27 ◼   ► that the iPhone 15 technology is gonna be rolled

01:11:30 ◼   ► into something that looks like the iPhone mini

01:11:31 ◼   ► maybe in the spring, I would probably wait.

01:11:34 ◼   ► 'cause I would really rather have an iPhone mini.

01:11:37 ◼   ► But if there's no sign that the mini form factor,

01:11:40 ◼   ► I can't believe I used that phrase, I hate it,

01:11:41 ◼   ► but there it is.

01:11:42 ◼   ► If the mini is not coming back in any shape or form,

01:11:45 ◼   ► back to, I'll probably break down in two years.

01:11:48 ◼   ► - Vegar asks, "With Major League Baseball,

01:11:51 ◼   ► "Major League Soccer, and potentially the NFL,

01:11:54 ◼   ► "when will Apple announce their first streaming deal

01:11:56 ◼   ► "for any women's sport?"

01:11:59 ◼   ► Now, I have to say, we can't answer the question, right?

01:12:02 ◼   ► We don't know the answer to this, but I think it would be a good thing for them to pursue.

01:12:07 ◼   ► It's more content, potentially of a smaller but also dedicated audience.

01:12:12 ◼   ► They would get the ability to learn more about streaming in general.

01:12:16 ◼   ► They just keep adding in, for I would presume, cheaper rights.

01:12:23 ◼   ► If you got the women's Super League football, it would be cheaper than trying to get the

01:12:30 ◼   ► premiership football.

01:12:32 ◼   ► So here's the problem. There are not that many, especially in the United States, there

01:12:36 ◼   ► are not that many women's sports leagues. The most prominent is the soccer league, the

01:12:41 ◼   ► NWSL. There's the women's Super League in Europe. Paramount+ has bought the rights to

01:12:48 ◼   ► both of those, so they're locked into a deal. And Sky and BBC in the UK have that. So I

01:12:56 ◼   ► think the answer to Vega's question is largely all the streamers are aware that there's an

01:13:01 ◼   ► audience that is growing for women's sports, and the challenge is that the number of those

01:13:09 ◼   ► leagues that are out there is small, and therefore there is a competition to get those rights.

01:13:19 ◼   ► And Paramount Plus, CBS basically in the US, has invested in women's soccer in the US and

01:13:27 ◼   ► put that into their brand. And I have friends who are fans of the NWSL and specific teams

01:13:32 ◼   ► like the Portland Thorns, and they got Paramount+ to watch the Portland Thorns, right? Like

01:13:38 ◼   ► that was part of the deal. It's actually very similar to what's going to happen with Apple

01:13:41 ◼   ► and MLS, where people are going to get their package because they are a fan of an MLS team.

01:13:47 ◼   ► So my answer is women's sports leagues need to grow, but one of the ways that women's

01:13:52 ◼   ► sports leagues are growing is by making deals with streamers. I'm sure Apple will

01:13:57 ◼   ► be in the conversation, but you can't just turn around and, you know, the

01:14:01 ◼   ► shopping—the aisles of the of the market, of the supermarket full of sports rights,

01:14:06 ◼   ► the women's aisle is pretty bare because there just have not been that

01:14:13 ◼   ► many women's sports leagues out there. And it's growing, but like in the US, like

01:14:21 ◼   ► the the NWSL is kind of it in terms of the major sports. I will throw out there

01:14:29 ◼   ► that Apple is rumored to be in conversations for some college

01:14:35 ◼   ► conference deals and it probably is mostly gonna go to like ESPN+ or

01:14:42 ◼   ► something like that but it's possible that some college conference in the US

01:14:46 ◼   ► anyway might make a deal with Apple that looks like the MLS deal at which point

01:14:50 ◼   ► what you'd see is all the college sports going on Apple's streaming. So they might

01:14:54 ◼   ► get some college football games and some college basketball games, which is what

01:14:57 ◼   ► they really want, but for example, if they make a deal with the, you know, PAC-12,

01:15:02 ◼   ► which is having to make a new deal because they lost two members and their

01:15:06 ◼   ► deal is up, so they have to make some new deals, and the commissioner there has

01:15:10 ◼   ► said that one of the things that they will do is work with the streamer. One

01:15:13 ◼   ► possibility might be that Apple or Amazon could assume their streaming

01:15:19 ◼   ► package, in which case all of the college women's soccer and volleyball and softball,

01:15:25 ◼   ► etc., etc., is going to go to whatever streamer they tie up with. So I'd say that pro leagues

01:15:30 ◼   ► are going to be harder because they're going to have to compete with every other streamer

01:15:33 ◼   ► for the limited number of women's pro leagues, especially in the US. But college might give

01:15:38 ◼   ► them a little bit more of a venue. But this is the challenge is that there are all these

01:15:43 ◼   ► established men's leagues and there just are not very many established women's leagues

01:15:46 ◼   ► so far.

01:15:47 ◼   ► Next question comes from John Cressen who asks,

01:15:50 ◼   ► do we think that the next iPad Pro will have an M2 chip

01:15:53 ◼   ► or could there be a Pro chip of some kind in there?

01:15:56 ◼   ► - M2, no, no Pro, it doesn't make sense for the iPad.

01:16:01 ◼   ► - What about M1 Pro?

01:16:03 ◼   ► - Battery, no, I just don't think it makes sense.

01:16:05 ◼   ► I think you want, M1 and M2 are fundamentally

01:16:07 ◼   ► the iPad chips that also go in Macs.

01:16:10 ◼   ► So I don't think so.

01:16:11 ◼   ► - Brant asks, do you think we'll get lighter iPhones

01:16:15 ◼   ► this year or are we in for heavier and heavier phones

01:16:18 ◼   ► and screen sizes as battery size,

01:16:20 ◼   ► as screen sizes and battery sizes get bigger?

01:16:23 ◼   ► I miss the days of the 4S to the 5,

01:16:25 ◼   ► more screen lighter designs.

01:16:27 ◼   ► I don't know about if we're gonna get heavier

01:16:30 ◼   ► and heavier phones all the time

01:16:32 ◼   ► because that soon becomes a problem, right?

01:16:36 ◼   ► But I don't know about lightness.

01:16:40 ◼   ► Like I don't know if they're gonna make them lighter

01:16:43 ◼   ► because it's like materials plus the batteries, right?

01:16:47 ◼   ► But, you know.

01:16:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, I reject the premise of this question.

01:16:52 ◼   ► Bigger phones, yes.

01:16:53 ◼   ► Heavier and heavier and heavier.

01:16:55 ◼   ► Oh, every year the phones get heavier and bigger

01:16:57 ◼   ► and heavier and bigger.

01:16:58 ◼   ► Like there are bigger phones, they sell well.

01:17:01 ◼   ► There are also smaller phones.

01:17:02 ◼   ► Is Apple going to, this is like,

01:17:04 ◼   ► did Johnny I write this question?

01:17:06 ◼   ► This is like everything should be thinner and lighter.

01:17:08 ◼   ► Phones on average are gonna be bigger

01:17:10 ◼   ► because people like them.

01:17:11 ◼   ► hey, iPhone mini user here, I lost.

01:17:16 ◼   ► - No phones are getting bigger this year.

01:17:20 ◼   ► - Right, well, the iPhone line as a whole will get bigger

01:17:23 ◼   ► because they're gonna replace the iPhone mini

01:17:24 ◼   ► with an iPhone max, right?

01:17:25 ◼   ► - But it's not like the iPhone mini is getting bigger, right?

01:17:28 ◼   ► It's just gonna go away.

01:17:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, but they're not gonna like switch to like,

01:17:32 ◼   ► people really like stainless steel.

01:17:33 ◼   ► So this year we're gonna do some, like iron,

01:17:37 ◼   ► we're gonna do an iron base, we're gonna do a lead based,

01:17:41 ◼   ► Don't touch it, don't lick it.

01:17:43 ◼   ► It's lead-based phone, but it's heavy and people love heavy.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Like, you know, there are always trade-offs gonna be made.

01:17:50 ◼   ► But if you are somebody who says,

01:17:53 ◼   ► "I miss the days of the 4S to the 5,

01:17:55 ◼   ► more screen, lighter designs," like,

01:17:57 ◼   ► they will make it lighter and thinner

01:18:01 ◼   ► when they feel like they can,

01:18:02 ◼   ► but just needing the battery to be good

01:18:06 ◼   ► and the screen to be big means that

01:18:09 ◼   ► they're always gonna be fighting against that.

01:18:10 ◼   ► - Also the 4S to the 5 is,

01:18:13 ◼   ► I understand where you're coming from,

01:18:14 ◼   ► but it's a bad example because they changed materials,

01:18:17 ◼   ► right, so they went from glass to aluminum.

01:18:20 ◼   ► That can't happen now because of wireless charging.

01:18:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, and also the aluminum models, right,

01:18:28 ◼   ► are the cheaper models and they are lighter

01:18:32 ◼   ► because of that,

01:18:33 ◼   ► 'cause they're not using the heavy stainless steel.

01:18:34 ◼   ► I think that they'll keep doing that too.

01:18:37 ◼   ► - The regular phones, not the pro phones, you're saying, yeah.

01:18:39 ◼   ► - I wanna be sympathetic here

01:18:40 ◼   ► because I also like smaller, lighter phones.

01:18:43 ◼   ► But I don't think that the narrative

01:18:45 ◼   ► that they're always getting bigger and heavier

01:18:47 ◼   ► is accurate either.

01:18:48 ◼   ► I think there's a push and a pull,

01:18:50 ◼   ► an ebb and a flow to this sort of thing.

01:18:52 ◼   ► But if you're dreaming of the days

01:18:54 ◼   ► of having small, light phones in general, it's over.

01:18:59 ◼   ► But Apple, we're not gonna,

01:19:02 ◼   ► fast forward to the iPhone 20 and it weighs four pounds.

01:19:05 ◼   ► That's not gonna happen.

01:19:06 ◼   ► - And Ryan asks,

01:19:07 ◼   ► Is there somewhere I can see my Apple Watch's battery health like I can for my iPhone?

01:19:13 ◼   ► Why yes Ryan, if you go to settings on the watch itself,

01:19:16 ◼   ► so you have to go to settings, there is a battery section.

01:19:21 ◼   ► Inside of that there is a button which isn't very clear that says battery health.

01:19:27 ◼   ► You have to scroll down, you find it, it's buried in between two paragraphs for some reason

01:19:31 ◼   ► and you can find it. Mine is 92%.

01:19:33 ◼   ► 95% here.

01:19:35 ◼   ► Oh look at you, congratulations.

01:19:37 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, big battery boy here.

01:19:40 ◼   ► I guess you are.

01:19:43 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question of your own, so we can help give you an answer

01:19:48 ◼   ► on a future episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or

01:19:52 ◼   ► use question mark #AskUpgrade in the Relay FM members Discord.

01:19:56 ◼   ► Thank you to KleememacX, Hover and Sourcegraph for the support of this show.

01:20:00 ◼   ► Thank you for listening and thank you to our members who support the show directly.

01:20:04 ◼   ► You can find out more and sign up today at GetUpgradePlus.com.

01:20:08 ◼   ► If you want to find Jason online, you can go to SixColors.com, TheIncomparable.com.

01:20:13 ◼   ► He is @JSNEL, J-S-N-E-L-L, both Jason and I. Host office shows here at Relay FM.

01:20:18 ◼   ► You can go to Relay.fm/shows.

01:20:20 ◼   ► Find a new show.

01:20:21 ◼   ► There's going to be something in there for you to listen to.

01:20:23 ◼   ► You're going to find something fun, I bet.

01:20:25 ◼   ► I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E, and we'll be back next week.

01:20:29 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Goodbye, everybody.

01:20:32 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

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