413: Tall Is Small


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:12   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 413.

00:00:17   It is still the Summer of Fun!

00:00:20   And this episode is brought to you by FitBard, ZokDok, and Texas Panda.

00:00:23   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:26   Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:27   Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:28   technically this may be the first episode that's actually the Summer of Fun that's recording

00:00:31   in the summer. I guess it was the first day of summer when we recorded last week. Anyway,

00:00:35   summer is here.

00:00:36   Summer of Fun, we all know when it starts.

00:00:37   And the Summer of Fun is here.

00:00:38   Although I guess technically last week's episode should have been the beginning of the Summer

00:00:43   of Fun.

00:00:44   Right, but we moved it up because we were outside in nice weather the week before, so

00:00:49   we'll give you more fun.

00:00:50   Having some real fun.

00:00:51   I have a #snowtalk question for you, comes from Brance. Brance wants to know, "Jason,

00:00:55   what's your favorite Pixar movie?"

00:00:57   It is... I've been saying for a while now and I'm gonna stick with it, The Incredibles.

00:01:02   I haven't watched them all lately to re-judge them, but The Incredibles is my favorite.

00:01:06   I like the music, I like the art direction. It's just a fun movie.

00:01:12   Like, the whole thing about it. I just love it. And I love a lot of PEC stars, but that's my favorite.

00:01:16   Voice acting's great, but yeah, the overall visual look of that movie

00:01:20   ticks so many boxes for me. Yeah, that's up there. That's high for me.

00:01:26   my only other one and I don't have an answer is such just one of the Toy Stories I'm sure

00:01:31   would rank very very highly for me. Sure. But I'm not sure which one I'd need to watch them all again

00:01:35   but I like all of them a lot. I've only seen Toy Story 4 once but was blown away by Toy Story 4.

00:01:42   Like it outpaced my expectation for it so that was a good movie. If you would like to send in

00:01:49   a snow talk question of your own to help open an episode of the show just send out a tweet with

00:01:53   with the hashtag #snowtalk, use question mark #snowtalk in the Relay FM members Discord.

00:01:57   Got some housekeeping Jason Snow.

00:02:00   Okay.

00:02:01   Upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:02:02   Thank you to everybody who has so far purchased one of the Summer of Fun 2022 line of shirts

00:02:09   that we got running right now.

00:02:11   We have the brand new Summer of Fun 2022 shirt which is like beach vibes, iPhone in the sand,

00:02:19   pineapples, upgrade logo is the sun.

00:02:22   T-Shirt

00:02:40   Thank you to everybody that has purchased so far and if you haven't, what's stopping

00:02:44   you?

00:02:45   Don't forget that you can always get longer ad free versions of this show.

00:02:51   It's called Upgrade Plus.

00:02:52   Go to GetUpgradePlus.com and you can sign up.

00:02:55   You become a RealAFM member, you get tons of bonus content, you get longer ad free episodes

00:03:01   of Upgrade and help support the show.

00:03:03   We have something new coming for RealAFM members.

00:03:06   It's a show called Spotlight.

00:03:08   is going to be hosted by Kathy Campbell and it's basically an AMA of hosts.

00:03:14   So Jason is going to be the first guest, it's going to be coming I think later this month

00:03:18   or the start of next month so kind of around the end of June or early July and if you are

00:03:23   a Relay FM member you can ask questions for this AMA in the Discord, people have been

00:03:27   doing that, it seems like we've got tons going right now and this is going to be a monthly

00:03:31   show with a different Relay FM host every time and it's going to be hosted and put together

00:03:37   by Kathy. So, that's a good new thing for Real AFM members, which you get access to

00:03:42   by going to getupgradeplus.com.

00:03:43   I know nothing about it other than that I was asked to appear, so we'll see how that

00:03:47   goes.

00:03:47   Yup. You don't need to do anything except, what is it, A-M-A-S, you need to just A the

00:03:53   Qs. That's what you need to do.

00:03:55   Okay, I'll get my A's in, P's and Q's in place and mine my A's.

00:04:00   Yeah, well, you don't want to mine the answers, you need to give them, you know?

00:04:07   Yeah, but the P's and Q's I will mine. The questions and the...

00:04:10   Oh, the Q's and A's, they're going to fly free.

00:04:14   The previously asked questions, I don't know.

00:04:17   Okay, if you have money to spend on either of these things, either buying t-shirts with our logo on them,

00:04:25   or getting bonus content, I would also like to recommend that you donate to an abortion

00:04:31   fund. Go to abortionfunds.org. If you don't know what an abortion fund is, these organizations

00:04:37   help people who cannot get the help that they need in their area with abortion and abortion-related

00:04:42   healthcare with either resources or finances or advice, and can help them get the care

00:04:48   that they need in their state, in the US or others. This is obviously more important now

00:04:53   than it's ever been, I urge you to find out more about this stuff and donate, whether

00:04:58   that's money or time. If you don't like that we're having to talk about this, I don't know

00:05:02   what to tell you, right? We have to. And especially if you don't like me talking about it because

00:05:07   of my accent. Again, this is the John Oliver problem, right? Like, I see it as the John

00:05:12   Oliver all the time. It's like, well, okay, I know I don't live in America. I know I'm

00:05:17   not American. However, the majority of you are, so here I am.

00:05:23   I'll say it in an American accent, so this will be very helpful, abortionfunds.org.

00:05:28   Thank you.

00:05:29   See, American accent.

00:05:31   Because hey, abortions are healthcare. This is not, and should not be a political issue.

00:05:36   It is the right for everyone to have autonomy over their own bodies. It is a right. It should

00:05:40   be, and I believe it to be a fundamental human right. Any less is wrong. If you are now opening

00:05:46   Twitter or your email to try and disagree with me or tell me I shouldn't be talking

00:05:50   about this on a tech podcast. Do us both a favor, close the app because you won't change

00:05:55   your mind. This is our podcast. Oh, you added this line in here, didn't you?

00:05:58   I did. This is our podcast and we say what we want. So if you're sending us a message

00:06:02   to say we shouldn't talk about this on our podcast, guess what? We get to decide that.

00:06:07   We decided to talk about it. That's it. And also I've been having this thing where

00:06:12   people keep trying to tell me that how bad the abortion rights are in the UK

00:06:17   they're not we have great abortion rights here in the UK and it's also not

00:06:23   a political issue here so this this seems to be one of these like talking

00:06:28   points you know like these like people what one person said a thing and there

00:06:31   everyone says it so don't come at me with that effect as I said don't come

00:06:35   with any of it just go to abortionfunds.org instead how about that back to

00:06:40   our regularly scheduled programming, there are new betas.

00:06:45   There are always new betas, aren't there?

00:06:47   Yep, we got the beta 2.

00:06:49   We were wondering if it was going to happen, right?

00:06:50   We're talking about it when we were talking about Stage Manager last time.

00:06:54   Yes, and it happened shortly thereafter.

00:06:58   Not a lot of changes in Stage Manager, especially I think we anticipate more to come.

00:07:04   They did add some keyboard shortcuts, which is one of those things that was very much

00:07:07   a glaring deficiency in Beta 1 where you would, "How do I get these windows to go away or

00:07:13   come back or go full screen?" There are some, like there's no Command+W kind of closed window

00:07:19   thing which I really would like to see, but there are some new keyboard shortcuts in there.

00:07:23   And obviously, people are talking about like, "Will Apple change the hardware compatibility?"

00:07:27   which I'm not sure they're gonna seriously consider that despite the fact that people

00:07:32   are talking about it, but it would not happen at this point, right? Because the way these

00:07:38   betas work, I don't know if people are aware of this, but like, they lock the beta one

00:07:44   quite a while before WWDC, and then they lock the beta two, that might even have been before

00:07:50   WWDC, but certainly like, these things are done, there's a lag time, so they're working

00:07:56   on it, but if you're expecting like, reactions, this is just like Safari last year, if you're

00:08:00   expecting reactions to backlash, it takes a little while. There is some lag time in

00:08:05   there.

00:08:06   The usual, at least I think the more modern expectation, is the first public beta, which

00:08:13   is usually around beta 3 time-ish, tends to be the first beta that has actually received

00:08:19   post-WWDC feedback. That's what I keep, I see people say that and it makes sense to

00:08:27   me.

00:08:28   like they're doing something that requires time to implement. So if at Beta 3, they know

00:08:33   about your feedback, it might take a couple more Betas to get the work done, right? Like,

00:08:40   it's a long process. So far, it was changing all the way up to the end last year.

00:08:44   All the way to the end. So what I would say for people who are very closely following Betas and

00:08:47   wondering what it means in terms of how Apple's thinking, like just keep in your mind, it's way

00:08:52   way more complicated and there's a lag and making changes is not easy. Even if they decide

00:08:58   to make them, it will take time. The best you could hope for is some vague PR statement

00:09:03   that says, "We'll continue working on this." I mean, I think that's what they did last

00:09:06   year with Safari. That's actually a big disclosure for them that like, "No, it's not done. We're

00:09:11   working on it." But they're not going to say, "Oh, we're trying some stuff and we're not

00:09:16   sure how it'll..." They're not going to say anything like that. So just keep an eye on

00:09:19   it and we will keep an eye on it. And before the show we were talking about like, you know,

00:09:25   people like us, we do use these things and talk and write about them and we'll, at some

00:09:32   expense to our lives because it breaks our devices, but we need to do it. So we'll keep

00:09:38   an eye and we'll let you know how it's going this summer if you're not brave enough. If

00:09:42   that devil on your shoulder has not whispered in your ear to install the beta, then we'll

00:09:47   report about it instead.

00:09:48   Speaking of which, Justin installed Beta 2.

00:09:52   [ Laughs ]

00:09:53   I haven't on my iPhone.

00:09:55   So we were talking about this last week

00:09:57   as part of Ask Upgrade.

00:09:58   I encouraged Justin to install the beta on their iPhone,

00:10:01   and they did. They did it.

00:10:02   -I said, "Justin, don't do it."

00:10:04   That was the title. -Mm-hmm.

00:10:05   -Justin did it. -Great title.

00:10:07   Did you see that tweet?

00:10:09   I wish I could remember it exactly,

00:10:10   but it was another person called Justin,

00:10:13   and they said that they were thinking about a life decision.

00:10:17   And then the episode popped up in there.

00:10:21   - Well, in the end, yes.

00:10:23   This is Justin who said,

00:10:24   "I saw this while contemplating a serious life decision.

00:10:27   Thank you for my help.

00:10:28   I have made the difficult decision

00:10:29   not to supersize my meal."

00:10:31   - Oh, that was it, that was it.

00:10:33   - So we're turning off,

00:10:34   at least one Justin turned away from the dark side

00:10:37   due to our intervention.

00:10:38   - There you go.

00:10:39   Just a little better for your body, you know?

00:10:41   Less salt or whatever it was gonna be, more fries.

00:10:43   - Whatever, yeah.

00:10:45   - You know, I went to a McDonald's at the airport

00:10:48   when we were in Dallas on our way home.

00:10:51   The sizes are so peculiar to me.

00:10:53   Like a small drink, it's like, it's huge.

00:10:56   It's massive. - Yeah.

00:10:58   Yeah, well, I mean, you're falling into

00:10:59   a little bit of a European trap too,

00:11:01   because, you know, it's the big US thing.

00:11:03   And then there's the, well, we have that

00:11:06   in movie theaters too here.

00:11:07   It's that idea that everybody wants a medium.

00:11:10   So you make the medium big and expensive.

00:11:12   (laughs)

00:11:13   And then people order the medium and they're like,

00:11:14   this is the medium? Well yeah. They should just make everything Starbucks sizes, right?

00:11:22   The grande, a venti, whatever it might be.

00:11:26   Tall is small. There is a smaller one but it's not on the menu and I don't remember

00:11:30   the name. I think it's called short, I think.

00:11:33   That could be short and tall, grande and venti.

00:11:36   Short is a Starbucks size?

00:11:37   Yeah.

00:11:38   Oh I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:39   - The secret size, the secret small size is small,

00:11:42   or short, but it's also small.

00:11:45   I have a friend who orders things in terms of

00:11:49   like the smallest cup you have,

00:11:51   or the biggest cup you have, like depending on mood.

00:11:55   So this brings me to my question for you.

00:11:56   This is my talk, which is not a segment

00:11:58   that we normally do here,

00:11:59   but since we mentioned Starbucks sizes,

00:12:03   do you have a go-to Starbucks order?

00:12:04   Do you go to Starbucks?

00:12:05   And if you do, what's your go-to?

00:12:07   - Yes and yes.

00:12:08   So I go to Starbucks for kind of two reasons.

00:12:13   It's convenience or like consistency.

00:12:19   So if I'm somewhere new or I'm somewhere

00:12:23   where I think the coffee isn't good,

00:12:25   I wish I could remember who this quote was,

00:12:29   but it's someone famous in the coffee world

00:12:31   that says Starbucks is the best thing to ever happen

00:12:34   to people that like coffee

00:12:36   because you get a consistent cup of coffee always.

00:12:40   But what I do is I treat Starbucks

00:12:43   the way that I think of it to be,

00:12:46   and I will tend to get some kind of flavored,

00:12:48   like caramel flavored drink,

00:12:50   whether it's, I will either get a caramel latte

00:12:54   or a caramel frappuccino,

00:12:55   depending on the temperature outside.

00:12:57   I just, you know, I don't like the way their coffee tastes,

00:13:00   so I like to just, rather than just put sugar in it,

00:13:03   Let's put some caramel syrup in there and go wild, you know?

00:13:06   - So the, and I don't drink coffee,

00:13:09   but when I go to Starbucks,

00:13:10   unless I'm staying somewhere that doesn't have tea

00:13:12   or I haven't brought tea or I haven't been able to make tea,

00:13:14   in which case I'll get tea with honey, ideally.

00:13:19   But if it's just sort of like during the day,

00:13:21   like I used to go write my column, my Mac World column,

00:13:23   I would go on Tuesday afternoon to a local Starbucks

00:13:25   and I would sit there and write my column.

00:13:26   And it was like my little cafe writing thing.

00:13:29   Always the same grande, hot chocolate, no whip,

00:13:32   whipped cream, although sometimes I will take that off if I'm feeling special, but usually no whipped

00:13:37   cream. I'll get no whipped cream on the frappuccinos. I don't like whipped cream in coffee drinks.

00:13:41   Yeah, well, hot chocolate, I mean, it's just more—it's just plowing more into that thing.

00:13:47   Anyway, but because I don't have—I don't—if I don't want tea and I don't drink coffee,

00:13:51   they do make a actually really nice hot chocolate, and I've been to lots of coffee places that make a

00:13:55   lousy hot chocolate, but the Starbucks one is really good. I also wanted to mention,

00:13:58   you talked about consistency. That is the secret for a lot of chains, is people are like,

00:14:01   like, well, you came all the way to Orange City

00:14:03   and you just went to Starbucks.

00:14:04   It's like, well, if you don't know

00:14:06   where the good, fussy coffee chain is,

00:14:08   or it's not conveniently located to you,

00:14:10   especially if you're traveling a lot,

00:14:12   there is something to be said for consistency.

00:14:14   Even if it's not the best, you know

00:14:16   it's going to basically taste the same no matter where you go.

00:14:18   And this is an anecdote that I really

00:14:20   like from a musician who I love, Bob Mould, who

00:14:24   was in Husker Du back in the day and is a solo artist now.

00:14:27   And I remember reading an interview with him,

00:14:29   or maybe it was even in his memoir,

00:14:31   where he talked about Subway and eating sandwiches at Subway.

00:14:35   And he says, okay, Subway is not very rock and roll, right?

00:14:40   He said, if you're in 40 different cities in the US

00:14:43   on a tour and you're exhausted

00:14:46   and you just need to eat something before you go to bed,

00:14:49   the fact is I can order the same sandwich at Subway

00:14:53   anywhere in the United States and it will always be the same.

00:14:58   And it's one of those, are you giving up?

00:14:59   Is it a give up?

00:15:00   Yes, but there is sometimes something to be said for convenience. I'll do that on road trips where

00:15:05   it's like, we don't go to a lot of chain restaurants at home, but on a road trip,

00:15:09   it's nice to know what you're going to get. And there's a time to kind of experiment and like,

00:15:14   oh, let's go to this roadside stand and see how it is. But like, if you're just trying to

00:15:18   stop and get something and then get back on the road, there's something to be said for convenience.

00:15:23   So I didn't know I'd be endorsing a Bob Mould subway strategy or that we would be talking

00:15:28   talking about Starbucks, but that's the glory of mic talk. The Flying Dutchman of upgrade

00:15:32   segments, it doesn't really exist, people doubt its existence, but then sometimes it

00:15:37   just appears. It's like the connected quiz!

00:15:40   It sure is. Well, way less frequent. Way, way less frequent.

00:15:45   Yeah, that's true.

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00:17:48   and RelayFN.

00:17:49   Big rumor roundup today.

00:17:52   This is the time of year, Jason,

00:17:55   when Mark Gurman is gonna wrap up a ton of hardware.

00:17:59   So-- - Yeah, it's a lot of stuff

00:18:01   we've heard before,

00:18:02   but he sort of like put it in one place of,

00:18:05   and I thought he hyped it up a little bit.

00:18:06   He's like, "Oh, this is one of the most ambitious

00:18:08   product slates that Apple's gonna release in some time."

00:18:12   And I thought, did somebody at Apple tell you that?

00:18:14   Because I mean, it's just a list of everything

00:18:18   they're gonna release in the next year.

00:18:19   I'm not sure how super ambitious it is.

00:18:21   It's good.

00:18:22   There's a lot of stuff.

00:18:23   I did feel exhausted reading it

00:18:24   'cause I imagined all the work that is gonna go into

00:18:27   reviewing all this stuff.

00:18:29   But yeah.

00:18:30   Well the way I, because I came away from it feeling like, "Oh it's a lot of stuff."

00:18:33   And I think the reason for it, and maybe what he's getting to, but as you say, probably

00:18:37   is overhyping it.

00:18:39   A lot of this is going to come this year, and one of the things that Apple's doing is

00:18:45   lots of models of the same product.

00:18:48   And so it's like, it feels like there are a lot of products, and maybe also some of

00:18:53   these things would have been spread out a little earlier in the year, but like, you

00:18:57   know, can't make anything.

00:18:59   - Yeah, yeah, legacy nodes, et cetera.

00:19:03   - So we're gonna go through these

00:19:04   and we'll stop to talk about each product as we wish.

00:19:08   So again, some of the stuff we knew,

00:19:10   but it's good to get it recapped.

00:19:11   And again, some stuff it's like,

00:19:13   it's piecemeal across different people.

00:19:14   And then when Mark Gumm and puts it in this thing,

00:19:16   you're like, okay, he's done, he's reporting on it.

00:19:18   So anyway, four iPhone 14 models coming this year.

00:19:22   - Yeah, that's mostly what we knew.

00:19:25   - Two pro models, they'll have the always on display.

00:19:28   I'm already getting the feeling this is gonna be stage manager all over again, where it's

00:19:34   gonna be like, well, why can't my OLED display do the always unlock screen on my iPhone 13

00:19:41   or whatever?

00:19:42   Well, if this feature only is on the iPhone 14 Pro, they even have to explain it in the

00:19:47   context of their own brand new product announcements, right? And I'm confident they'll do it. Remember

00:19:52   when the Apple Watch Series 5 came out and they did the always on display and everybody

00:19:56   thought "wait you already had no LED display why can't you enable this across?" and they

00:20:00   said "oh no this required a new display hardware that let us control the frame rate and the

00:20:06   brightness in a very specific way and that's what unlocked this feature" and I'm sure that's

00:20:11   what they'll say about the iPhone 14 Pro and the always-on display.

00:20:15   I think it's gonna be easy to do it but like I know that there's gonna be they I want them

00:20:20   to be specific about it as much as they can be I think I saw some people talking about

00:20:24   the fact that the promotion display on the iPhone 13 Pro

00:20:28   goes down to a minimum, I think of 10 Hertz,

00:20:32   where the Apple watch is one.

00:20:35   - Yeah.

00:20:36   - So.

00:20:36   - That may be their story is that we had to do a new screen

00:20:41   or a new screen controller that allowed us

00:20:42   to take the frame rate all the way down

00:20:44   so that the battery life would still be acceptable.

00:20:46   And that's why it's only in this one.

00:20:47   But like if this last announcement

00:20:50   has not taught Apple PR something,

00:20:53   I would be surprised about. Be very clear about why and do it in a boastful way, right?

00:20:58   Like that's when you're doing a product announcement, you should boast about look at this new thing

00:21:02   we did that enables this great new feature.

00:21:04   Give it a new name. You love to give screens names. Give it a new name.

00:21:07   Oh man, it's the it's the what would it even be the hibernation retina display or something.

00:21:14   I don't know.

00:21:15   What is the current one called?

00:21:16   Deep freeze retina display.

00:21:17   - Apple.com/iphone.

00:21:19   'Cause they have like liquid retina display

00:21:22   and liquid retina display XDR,

00:21:25   all that kind of stuff, right?

00:21:26   So what do they call it right now?

00:21:28   - It'll be a liquid retina display ZZZ

00:21:31   'cause it goes to sleep.

00:21:33   - Oh, well.

00:21:34   (laughing)

00:21:36   I really like that. - It's pronounced snore.

00:21:39   - I really like that.

00:21:40   Super retina XDR, super retina XDR.

00:21:44   - Well, this will be ultra retina XDR M

00:21:47   And the M stands for minimal lighting sometimes

00:21:50   or something, I don't know.

00:21:52   - Oh, as Zach has said, they also say with promotion

00:21:55   at the end, Super Retina XDR display.

00:21:57   - Okay, so this will be Super Retina XDR

00:21:59   with promotion and smart sleep or whatever,

00:22:03   eternal vigilance or whatever, yeah.

00:22:05   - Always on Retina XDR display, which is not a great name,

00:22:09   but they might go that way, right?

00:22:10   'Cause they call the Apple Watch the always on display,

00:22:12   so who knows?

00:22:13   - Yeah, sure.

00:22:15   That screen will also have thinner bezels,

00:22:17   which is interesting.

00:22:18   I can't imagine I'm gonna notice that, but hey ho.

00:22:21   It will have an A16 chip, a 48 megapixel main camera.

00:22:25   I'm very excited for that.

00:22:27   I'm really intrigued.

00:22:28   I'm really intrigued by that.

00:22:30   - Apple improves its camera every year.

00:22:31   It doesn't do a megapixel leap every year.

00:22:33   That doesn't happen very often.

00:22:34   - Been a long time since they've done a megapixel jump.

00:22:38   I don't remember off the top of my head,

00:22:39   but it's many years.

00:22:40   - So I do that story now, apparently every year,

00:22:43   which is what's new in the new iPhone

00:22:45   based on the iPhone that you've currently got.

00:22:48   And so I have to look at the charts

00:22:49   and compare all the different versions of the iPhone

00:22:51   and sort of tell this story about what's new.

00:22:54   And that's one of the things that's jumped out at me

00:22:56   in working on that story is the,

00:22:59   sometimes they make a better camera with more,

00:23:03   more pixels or more focus pixels,

00:23:08   or there's a better processor or it's a larger sensor.

00:23:13   but what they haven't done in a very long time is leave what 12 megapixels behind. So

00:23:20   it's a big deal. I'm excited about that. Pill shaped face ID cut out. So removing the notch

00:23:28   and a better front facing camera with a hole punch cut out. So there'll be a pill shape

00:23:34   and then also a hole punch as well. Right. I've forgotten about this. So it'll be like

00:23:37   - Dot dash or dash dot, morse code,

00:23:40   you can decode which one that is.

00:23:42   - Then the regular phones, way fewer improvements.

00:23:47   They're gonna have the same processor as currently.

00:23:50   You know, I don't think they're gonna get the camera.

00:23:52   Obviously not gonna get the always on,

00:23:54   and the notches I assume gonna be there as well.

00:23:57   The biggest thing that's gonna happen in the regular phones

00:23:59   is that the mini will go away and then a larger phone,

00:24:03   which is a max sized phone,

00:24:06   will accompany the regular iPhone 14.

00:24:09   So it'll be iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Max.

00:24:11   That's gonna be the story in that phone this year, I guess.

00:24:15   - I had a thought about,

00:24:18   as somebody who's got the 13 mini,

00:24:20   if they replace the, if they don't do a 14 mini,

00:24:26   but they don't change the processor,

00:24:27   it's like as a 13 mini owner, I'll be like, okay,

00:24:32   that's fine. - You get another year.

00:24:34   - That's fine.

00:24:35   And it did actually occur to me that if Apple is gonna do this kind of like lagging processor

00:24:40   thing on the non-pro iPhone, that they could even do a cycle.

00:24:45   Depending on the sales levels, they could even do a cycle where they do a mini one year

00:24:49   and a max another year and they just go back and forth.

00:24:53   And they keep the other one in the price list and they just kind of keep rotating through

00:24:57   them because how new are they, really?

00:25:01   I mean, they'll have some new features, but like, if the processor is not changing as

00:25:06   much, maybe they will, maybe, I mean, I'm dreaming here, but like, I-

00:25:10   - You've moved into the bargaining stage?

00:25:13   - It's, yeah, no, I think I'm just still in denial.

00:25:17   I'm still in denial, but it'll give me another year with the 13th.

00:25:19   Although I have to admit the Pro model sounds so good that I'm curious about the 14 Pro,

00:25:29   But I'm, you know, I'm team 13 mini.

00:25:33   I hear it's not on a very high, high tier, but you know, that's for people who don't

00:25:37   know what they're talking about.

00:25:38   So yeah.

00:25:39   - All people that do.

00:25:40   - But probably not.

00:25:42   - Apple watch, three watches.

00:25:44   There'll be a series eight, which is gonna have the same system on a chip as the series

00:25:49   seven, which means it has the same system on a chip as the series six.

00:25:54   Mark Gomer thinks that there will be a new system on a chip

00:25:57   for the next Apple Watch.

00:26:00   - So I use my Apple Watch to do all sorts of things now,

00:26:04   you know, and I'm out there doing wireless,

00:26:06   streaming a podcast while doing fitness tracking

00:26:09   and all those things.

00:26:10   And I'll tell you, you know,

00:26:12   I'm sure that a new version of that chip would be nice.

00:26:15   I don't feel like the Apple Watch is slow.

00:26:19   - No.

00:26:20   - I feel like there's software stuff

00:26:22   that I wish that it did that they need to work on.

00:26:24   But like, if there was ever a product

00:26:26   where they could take three cycles off

00:26:27   of improving the processor at the center of it,

00:26:30   it's probably the Apple Watch.

00:26:32   - My expectation is they are,

00:26:35   they now will update the Apple Watch

00:26:37   when they have new capabilities that require a new chip.

00:26:41   Like it's not a performance thing, I feel like,

00:26:43   but it's like maybe there's new sensors

00:26:45   maybe coming in the Series 9.

00:26:47   And so they need a new chip for that,

00:26:49   or they're gonna change something

00:26:51   that would affect battery life or whatever.

00:26:53   But like if they're not adding anything new,

00:26:55   then why do they need to change the system?

00:26:58   - I would imagine that there's some features

00:26:59   that they really want to enable that they're not able to,

00:27:01   because they really want that next chip to enable them.

00:27:04   And I totally, I get it, I get it,

00:27:06   but I'm not too fussed about chip changes.

00:27:10   I'm more excited that we might finally get our,

00:27:12   you know, Apple Watch Super Sport Ultra.

00:27:15   - Rugged. - Rugged, yeah.

00:27:17   - Yeah, I'm really intrigued about this.

00:27:18   So Mark's still talking about rugged model, but that's it.

00:27:21   There wasn't a lot of detail about the watches.

00:27:24   There has been rumors still abound

00:27:27   that there's going to be a design refresh, but nothing.

00:27:29   Nothing here in this report.

00:27:31   There will also be a new SE, same size, new chip.

00:27:34   I really want to see the SE

00:27:36   get an always-on display, personally.

00:27:38   I don't know what it's going to take for them to do that.

00:27:40   That needs to be a better value product

00:27:42   than it is right now.

00:27:44   M2 Max.

00:27:45   So a Mac Mini is on the way with an M2 Pro option,

00:27:50   which feels like a much needed place in the lineup, I think.

00:27:54   M2 Pro and M2 Max MacBook Pros are coming, obviously,

00:28:00   and M2 Ultra and M2 Extreme Mac Pro.

00:28:04   I love that name so much, and I hope they won't,

00:28:07   but I hope they like eighties brand it, you know?

00:28:09   Like it's like extreme, it's kind of like spray painted.

00:28:11   That's what I want to see, you know?

00:28:13   I know they're not going to do it,

00:28:14   but a boy can dream, you know?

00:28:16   - Well, I think having, finally having a model

00:28:19   that has an M2 with an M2 Pro, right?

00:28:21   Which never really happened in the M1 generation.

00:28:23   They were M1s or they were M1 Pro/Max.

00:28:27   Those were your choices.

00:28:28   So I like this.

00:28:30   And then it's interesting

00:28:31   'cause there's no Max Studio described here,

00:28:34   but I like the idea in the long run

00:28:36   of having kind of the Mac mini,

00:28:37   which has the M2 and the M2 Pro,

00:28:39   and then it's got the Max Studio

00:28:40   that has the Max and the Ultra,

00:28:42   so that you've got a real continuity of desktop Max,

00:28:45   and then they need to do the same with iMacs,

00:28:47   and then it all kind of makes sense.

00:28:49   - Yep.

00:28:50   - Speaking of iMacs,

00:28:52   it seems like the next update might be the M3.

00:28:55   - Yeah, there's some vagueness in there,

00:28:59   but he seems to think that the iMac

00:29:01   is not on the M2 priority list.

00:29:04   I'm a little surprised by that.

00:29:05   He did say that there is a plan to do a higher end iMac.

00:29:10   And so I'm unclear in parsing his words.

00:29:14   - It might be that that new iMac could be a bigger iMac

00:29:17   it's an M3 enabled iMac coming at the end of 23 or halfway through 23.

00:29:23   It's also possible, depending on how you read it, it's also possible that there might be an M2

00:29:28   big iMac that's like an M2 Pro, but that the M1 iMac, the small iMac, might not get an update

00:29:37   until M3. But we'll see. There's a lot of M's. And then in the M3 Mac timeframe, it would be

00:29:47   be a update to the 13-inch MacBook Air, 15-inch MacBook Air, which we spoke about last time,

00:29:53   I think will be a studio, and then also a 12-inch laptop which is in development. Doesn't

00:29:58   know when that might happen, if it happened at all. When talking about the M2 chips, Mark

00:30:03   mentioned that Apple's headset, he expects it to have an M2 chip in it, which is interesting.

00:30:09   I had just assumed it would have a new chip. Right. Right? Like they do with some of the

00:30:14   other stuff, I just figured that they would want to make something more custom.

00:30:20   I don't know. Yeah, maybe, but I think that they've got, you know, they've got their mobile

00:30:24   and their desktop essentially chips and they, you know, do they need to do another variation

00:30:29   on it? And I guess this is the answer is they don't. I wonder if they looked at the A series

00:30:33   and was like, that's not enough. We'll put M series in here. Remember, it's still pretty

00:30:38   low powered chip. I just figured it would have been different,

00:30:40   a chip that's got way more graphics and neural stuff than raw processing and has

00:30:46   a lot of performance cores. That's kind of my imagination for a makeup of a chip

00:30:50   like that but I mean hey it's a really powerful chip right? Yeah.

00:30:56   Mark also mentioned 16 gigabytes of RAM which just feels funny and something

00:31:00   that you put on your face. There's a lot of RAM to go on the face. It's a computer on your face

00:31:04   that's what it is. New iPads confirming a base model iPad of USB-C 5G in an A14

00:31:11   chip. iPad Pros coming this year with M2 chips and then a bigger display iPad

00:31:17   Mark reckons between 14 to 15 inches. This feels like he doesn't really know

00:31:22   anything about this one. Yeah or at least he knows sort of vague things but not a

00:31:27   lot of confidence about it that there's a bigger iPad in the works and the

00:31:31   details are unclear, which is interesting because there was that other report, which

00:31:35   was maybe Ming-Chi Kuo who said that it was not a

00:31:38   >> Ross Young.

00:31:39   >> It was not.

00:31:40   >> Ross Young.

00:31:41   >> It was Ross Young because it was display related, wasn't it?

00:31:42   That it was not going to be an OLED.

00:31:43   It was going to be a different kind of display, which is what we made us say.

00:31:47   Maybe it's an iPad studio instead of an iPad Pro because it's a different set of features.

00:31:52   The base model getting USB-C too, that clears the USB-C out of the iPad.

00:31:55   It's like all USB-C and no more lightning.

00:31:59   And that's the direction they're going with everything, right?

00:32:01   - Right, I guess the, does the mini still have lightning?

00:32:03   - No, the mini's USB-C.

00:32:05   - Mini's USB-C too, yeah.

00:32:06   So they're just, they're clearing it out

00:32:08   and they'll do the same with the iPhone next year probably.

00:32:11   But- - I'll be so happy.

00:32:13   - And then the other thing Mark said

00:32:14   that I thought was funny is he said,

00:32:15   there'll be more, the new pro models will have more iPads

00:32:19   that support stage manager.

00:32:22   Like basically for Apple to say,

00:32:24   look at all these products we make

00:32:25   that do support stage manager.

00:32:27   - I also just like that in this article,

00:32:29   because again, this is taken from Mark's newsletter.

00:32:32   So it's more personalized really.

00:32:35   And he's just in his site, he's like,

00:32:36   "I don't like it, I don't like stage manager."

00:32:38   And just a really funny aside to me,

00:32:40   he's like, "No, I don't like it,

00:32:41   "I don't think they did a good job."

00:32:42   But anyway.

00:32:43   - What's fascinating about Mark is that Mark

00:32:47   has good sources and he does good reporting.

00:32:49   And then in the newsletter especially,

00:32:50   they want him to insert a little bit, or he wants to,

00:32:53   insert a little bit more of his voice.

00:32:55   So he has some opinions in there.

00:32:57   And I don't entirely agree with his opinions,

00:33:00   but his sources are impeccable.

00:33:01   So, you know, just kind of, yeah, but it is funny.

00:33:04   Well, he did that one a few weeks ago

00:33:06   where he was sort of like really mad

00:33:07   because some product he had didn't work.

00:33:11   It was like, okay, I guess we're reading about this now, but-

00:33:14   - Well, it's his newsletter, right?

00:33:16   - Yeah.

00:33:17   - This is the different part, I like it.

00:33:20   New AirPods Pro, updated chips and stuff,

00:33:23   support for lossless, well, Mark says high quality audio.

00:33:27   I'm assuming this is lossless.

00:33:29   New HomePod!

00:33:30   Yeah, how about that?

00:33:33   S8 chip.

00:33:34   Now that is the chip that is in the watch?

00:33:41   Oh, I don't even know.

00:33:44   Because that...

00:33:45   Hmm.

00:33:46   Closer to the original in size and sound, with an updated display on the top, possibly support

00:33:57   for multi-touch. All of that last part will seem very odd to me, but I'm into this. I

00:34:03   want more than a Mini because I like my big HomePods. And so I'm happy that they are going

00:34:09   back to not all Mini. And maybe this will be a better priced, more compelling product

00:34:16   for more people than the original. Two thumbs up from me.

00:34:20   Yeah. And I like the idea. So one of the things that I hate about the original HomePod is

00:34:25   I hate the display because it's just for show.

00:34:29   It does very little that's useful.

00:34:32   It's just kind of there for show.

00:34:33   And remember there were a lot of rumors

00:34:34   that it would be an actual display

00:34:36   and it ends up, it's just kind of like some lights.

00:34:38   So I'm curious if they will try to do something

00:34:41   that's a little bit more complex than that

00:34:43   in terms of the display on top.

00:34:45   And then different touch gestures.

00:34:48   One of the big problems with the HomePod I found,

00:34:50   especially because I have one of my HomePods

00:34:53   is kind of high up is you can't do it by feel at all,

00:34:57   because there are little spaces on the top of the HomePod

00:35:01   to go louder and quieter, and you have to hit them.

00:35:05   Otherwise it doesn't work.

00:35:06   And if you can't see them and you can't feel them,

00:35:09   you can't hit them.

00:35:10   So a multi-touch or new set of touch gestures

00:35:14   for a HomePod I think is good,

00:35:16   'cause I would really like to be able to control a HomePod

00:35:19   without having to hit a very precise thing

00:35:22   on a device that I might not be able to see

00:35:24   the control surface of.

00:35:25   Like if you can imagine maybe pressing

00:35:27   and winding clockwise or counterclockwise

00:35:29   to adjust the volume or something like that,

00:35:31   or swiping across to do next track or stuff like that,

00:35:35   I would think that that would be a better HomePod interface.

00:35:39   - And a new Apple TV, but don't get excited.

00:35:43   - Yay.

00:35:44   - It's gonna get a new chip and one more gigabyte RAM.

00:35:46   Just like purely like just the usual,

00:35:49   like we're doing things or games are doing things

00:35:52   and they need a little bit more headway.

00:35:54   - Yeah, we're running out of that old chip.

00:35:55   So we're putting in this new chip that we're gonna,

00:35:58   like again, this is Apple as a recycler.

00:36:00   They've got products where they don't need

00:36:03   to make a new thing for it.

00:36:05   They just stick in the old thing.

00:36:06   And as they're managing their inventory of those things,

00:36:11   they look and say, okay,

00:36:12   why don't we put the A14 in this now?

00:36:13   Okay, let's do that.

00:36:14   Yeah, let's do that.

00:36:15   - That's a lot of stuff, man.

00:36:18   I'm excited about a lot of this.

00:36:20   There's a lot of things in here.

00:36:21   - Yeah, all those Macs, right?

00:36:22   All the Macs are really interesting.

00:36:24   - That iPhone sounds really good.

00:36:27   - If iPhone sounds really good and the new Macs,

00:36:29   we've been talking for a while about how Apple Silicon

00:36:31   could really like give Apple a chance

00:36:34   to redefine the Mac line,

00:36:35   'cause it was so defined based on Intel specs before.

00:36:38   And they've started to do that,

00:36:39   but we're just really at the start of that process now

00:36:41   with the iMac and the larger MacBook Pros,

00:36:45   and now the MacBook Air.

00:36:47   but there's more to be done in terms of the chip rollouts

00:36:51   and the designs of the system.

00:36:53   So, could be a real interesting time for the Mac,

00:36:56   maybe the iPad, and then definitely those new Pro iPhones

00:37:00   are gonna be really interesting.

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00:39:20   So there's a new Mac in town, the M2 MacBook Pro.

00:39:24   - Yay!

00:39:27   - You summed it up so beautifully.

00:39:28   We called it out on Connected,

00:39:30   called this a classic Jason Snell headline.

00:39:32   The future wrapped in the past was the headline

00:39:35   that you came up with.

00:39:36   And I love it.

00:39:38   I love it.

00:39:39   Do you wanna,

00:39:40   is there anything specific you wanted to talk about

00:39:42   in regards to the M2 MacBook Pro?

00:39:44   - I mean, what I said in the article

00:39:48   is that there are three ways of looking at the MacBook Pro

00:39:50   and they're all correct.

00:39:51   One of them is, it's the debut of the M2

00:39:52   and the M2 is really interesting

00:39:54   'cause it's the first time Apple has done an update

00:39:58   to its processors in the Mac.

00:39:59   And while that seems a little esoteric,

00:40:00   We have been, first question was,

00:40:02   what are Apple processors gonna look like in the Mac?

00:40:05   But the next question is, what happens after that?

00:40:07   How do they then cycle through

00:40:09   and do it again and do it again?

00:40:10   And the M2 is sort of lifting the curtain on that.

00:40:13   Second one is, why does this thing look like,

00:40:18   not look like all of Apple's other current laptops?

00:40:20   It is a refugee from the past, it looks very 2016.

00:40:24   It hasn't gotten any of the updates

00:40:26   and therefore it seems really like something

00:40:29   from a bygone era.

00:40:30   And then the third observation is out of context,

00:40:34   without knowing what else is going on

00:40:35   in Apple's product line, it's a thin, light,

00:40:39   reasonably priced for Apple, powerful laptop.

00:40:43   And so like out of context, it seems fine and normal,

00:40:48   but you have to pretend that Apple hasn't pushed

00:40:51   the other products, other laptops that it makes forward

00:40:55   in order to think that way.

00:40:58   And all of these things are true.

00:40:59   Like again, if you get one of these and you use it,

00:41:02   it's not bad, it's actually good.

00:41:05   It's just not the state of the art from Apple anymore.

00:41:08   It's this recycled kind of old enclosure

00:41:11   and old technology with a new chip at its heart.

00:41:14   So as a result, I think the chip is by far

00:41:16   the most interesting thing about the product.

00:41:18   And it's not, although, look,

00:41:21   I don't wanna overstate the caveats

00:41:23   because there are a few caveats.

00:41:25   There are a few people for whom this product

00:41:28   is one that makes sense, but I don't want to give that too much oxygen because the truth

00:41:34   is it's almost nobody. This is a product that I would not personally recommend to anyone

00:41:40   because there are better options. There are better options for the same price, the MacBook

00:41:45   Air that comes out next month. There are better options in the MacBook Pro line, the ones

00:41:50   that are more expensive and a whole generation better in terms of everything about them other

00:41:55   than the chip, and the chip is still faster because the high-end chips of M1 are faster

00:42:00   than the M2 base.

00:42:01   And I guess if you could get a good deal on an M1 MacBook Pro and you wanted that, that's

00:42:07   probably also still very good for you, you know?

00:42:10   Yeah, the M2 as a processor is like what we've seen in the march of the A-series processors.

00:42:14   The M2 is faster, but it's not, you know, amazingly faster. It's faster. It's got the

00:42:20   next generation core from the A15, and so the A14. It's got the next generation neural

00:42:24   engine, next generation GPUs, it's got the video encoders from the M2 high-end, it's

00:42:30   got the memory system that the high-end M1s had, and so it's got better memory and faster

00:42:36   storage and it's got lots of things about it. But the fact is most people are not coming

00:42:40   from an M1 anything to this. They would be coming from an Intel something to this, and

00:42:47   that's where you get your big leap. So the truth is if you're going from an Intel something

00:42:52   to a refurbished or cheaper M1 laptop that's still for sale, you're still going to get

00:42:58   the bulk of that great leap and save some money. So that's also true. Yeah.

00:43:05   - I guess it's price points, right? Like this is just, it hits a price point. That's why

00:43:09   this product exists. They can't make the 14 or won't make the 14 for what the 13 costs.

00:43:15   So until they can, the 13 exists. - The more people I talk to about this, the

00:43:21   stories I hear about what I already kind of intuited but I think is absolutely the case,

00:43:26   which is this product exists because some people will only buy a product, a laptop with

00:43:32   Pro on it. They will only buy a MacBook Pro. They don't see themselves as MacBook Air people.

00:43:38   They want a serious laptop and they want the Pro. But I think that when I say people, the

00:43:44   truth is it's mostly not people. The truth is I think it's mostly corporate buyers. I

00:43:50   think they're corporate IT groups and Apple sells a lot of laptops to corporations and

00:43:55   corporate IT groups are like, "I don't want the MacBook Air. That's a consumer system.

00:43:59   I want the MacBook Pro." They stand behind it. Those are serious tools. And I heard from

00:44:04   people who are like, "Yeah, I asked my company to buy me a MacBook Air and they said, 'I

00:44:08   got you something better,' and it was the 13-inch MacBook Pro." And they're like, "Uh,

00:44:12   no, it's not better." But it's got the name on it and the IT people won't buy the Air,

00:44:18   they'll buy the Pro. And I think, yes, historically there are probably some things about buying

00:44:23   consumer laptops in general, including not from Apple, versus buying ones that use professional

00:44:28   parts and are professional laptops. I think in truth, there's no difference between buying

00:44:33   an M2 MacBook Air and an M2 MacBook Pro once the Air is available. I don't really think

00:44:37   there is an appreciable difference there. But the name matters. The name is important.

00:44:42   And if you're a company that's standardized on that name and you're not willing to buy

00:44:47   that person a $2,000 laptop, well, guess what?

00:44:50   There's a $1,200 laptop that you can get

00:44:53   that is also a MacBook Pro.

00:44:56   And so I think that's why it's Apple's number two seller

00:44:59   of laptops is mostly for corporate sales.

00:45:02   And I think that's gonna only increase now

00:45:04   because at least in, there was a little more differentiation

00:45:09   or a little less differentiation, I guess,

00:45:11   in the M1 generation where the Air also didn't have MagSafe.

00:45:14   Right, like it also was an old design.

00:45:17   But now the Air is the new design and the Pro 13-inch is not.

00:45:21   And so there's even less of a reason

00:45:24   to choose it over the Air.

00:45:25   So yeah, I think it's for price point.

00:45:27   So Apple can say the MacBook Pro starts at $1,200,

00:45:31   even though it doesn't.

00:45:32   The 1200, I forget exactly what the price is,

00:45:35   but it's a low price and then it's $1,999 for the MacBook 14.

00:45:40   And so yeah, $1,299, so it's not even $1,200.

00:45:44   $1,300 is a lot less than 2,000, right?

00:45:49   I mean, that's a lot of money.

00:45:51   That's $700 on a product that's $1,300.

00:45:54   So it's a huge leap.

00:45:57   And if you're saying to yourself,

00:45:58   well, why doesn't Apple make a new version of the 13

00:46:01   with the new technology?

00:46:02   And I have two thoughts about that.

00:46:04   One is they did, it's the MacBook Pro 14.

00:46:08   And two is if they did it,

00:46:12   they'd have to charge a lot more.

00:46:14   even if they did a stripped down version.

00:46:15   - I mean the MacBook Air is also though, right?

00:46:17   - Right, they wanna keep their margins for the MacBook Pro

00:46:21   and yet they also know that there's a limit

00:46:24   to how many they're gonna sell

00:46:25   if they push that MacBook Pro starting price up above 1299.

00:46:29   And they're not willing to say,

00:46:30   you can't buy into the MacBook Pro for less than two grand.

00:46:34   So this product exists.

00:46:36   And I think nobody's happy about it.

00:46:39   I would argue that the people at Apple

00:46:41   don't like this product either,

00:46:43   but they have to make it.

00:46:44   Even though it's old and it doesn't have any of the stuff

00:46:47   that they push forward with the laptops

00:46:49   the last couple of years,

00:46:50   they're stuck with it because they want to keep the margins

00:46:54   and they know it sells

00:46:55   and they know they can't raise that price.

00:46:56   And so here we are,

00:46:59   even though the Air comparably configured is the same price

00:47:03   and is an advanced version of this with the same chip

00:47:07   and yes, battery and a fan,

00:47:09   but most people won't care about the differences.

00:47:12   And the positive differences are so great.

00:47:15   So it's here, it is what it is.

00:47:18   I don't know if anybody's gonna ever be excited about it,

00:47:21   but a lot of people are gonna get them.

00:47:23   And if you're one of those people

00:47:24   whose work buys them a MacBook Pro

00:47:25   and you're very excited you're getting an M2 MacBook Pro

00:47:27   and you get it and it's this thing, it'll be fine.

00:47:31   But it also won't feel appreciably different

00:47:32   than that laptop you got in the late 2010s,

00:47:35   'cause it's basically the same, touch bar and all.

00:47:38   - So the 1299 model comes with a 256 gigabyte SSD,

00:47:42   that's what it starts at.

00:47:44   - Yep.

00:47:45   - I saw some reports over the weekend

00:47:47   that there are some YouTubers who have tested this machine

00:47:49   and have realized that this 256 base model

00:47:53   has a slower SSD than the M1 MacBook Pro.

00:47:56   It's around 50% slower at reading, 30% slower at writing.

00:48:01   Upon disassembly, it appears that this machine--

00:48:05   - Than the M1 13?

00:48:06   - Yes.

00:48:07   - Yeah, wow. - Yeah, yeah.

00:48:09   The product it replaces.

00:48:11   Upon disassembly, it appears that this machine

00:48:13   has a single NAND flash storage chip

00:48:16   where the previous model had two.

00:48:18   - Had two.

00:48:19   - So that's why it's slower.

00:48:21   I was wondering, legacy notes?

00:48:23   I don't know, like what's the,

00:48:24   this could be, I don't know what the reason is.

00:48:27   I will say just as a side again,

00:48:29   like going back to that,

00:48:30   like the whole point around this machine,

00:48:32   I think 256 gigabyte is not enough for a computer today

00:48:35   that is a pro machine.

00:48:36   Like I think-

00:48:37   - And yet here we are because of the compromises

00:48:40   that are made in order to get this to hit the price point.

00:48:43   And yeah, I agree.

00:48:45   I mean, and again, it's not like,

00:48:47   it's not like 1299, even the base price

00:48:53   is not a real price, right?

00:48:54   'Cause then you're gonna spec it up,

00:48:55   but it gets you in the door.

00:48:56   And I think like that IT person who's like,

00:48:58   "Well, yeah, I don't like that configuration,

00:49:00   but then I can do a custom configuration

00:49:01   and I can get it to 1599 and I'm happy with that.

00:49:04   and it's still not 20, or 1999.

00:49:06   So it's not a real price,

00:49:09   but it's a real base that allows you to get in.

00:49:11   I agree.

00:49:12   I mean, everything about this system is compromised.

00:49:14   By the way, for the record, I have the one terabyte model

00:49:17   and I don't have an M113 MacBook Pro to compare it to.

00:49:19   So I'm glad people are out there doing that work.

00:49:21   - Apparently this is only on the lowest,

00:49:25   the 256 is the only place where there is this difference

00:49:28   in SSD speed.

00:49:29   - Right, right.

00:49:30   Which is the base model, which you probably, yeah.

00:49:32   - No reviewers have sent this model.

00:49:34   No reviewers have ever sent this model.

00:49:35   - Shocker.

00:49:36   Yeah, no, you're never, well,

00:49:38   sometimes you're sent the base model,

00:49:39   but mostly you're not because Apple doesn't want to do that.

00:49:43   They want the reviewers to have this great experience.

00:49:45   I compared it to my M1 Air,

00:49:46   and it's a step up, but it's moderate.

00:49:52   And again, I would just hold out for the M2 Air

00:49:54   if you're gonna go that direction.

00:49:56   But most people just, I wanna remind everybody again,

00:49:59   Most people do not upgrade from an M1 to an M2, right?

00:50:02   Because that's one generation.

00:50:04   Like most people are not gonna do that.

00:50:05   Most people are still who are gonna buy this system

00:50:08   and buy the Air, they are coming from Intel.

00:50:11   And I ran some speed tests on Intel on my iMac Pro,

00:50:16   but also on Lauren's 2018 MacBook Air.

00:50:21   Yeah, somewhere between six and 15 times, times faster,

00:50:27   not 60%, six times faster, some cases 10 times faster.

00:50:32   It is, that's the leap,

00:50:35   because that's the Apple Silicon leap.

00:50:36   And anybody who still hasn't gone to Apple Silicon,

00:50:39   a lot of people talk to big talk about like,

00:50:41   oh, I'm not gonna ever do the first generation of a chip.

00:50:43   Like if those people are like holding out still,

00:50:45   well, M2 is gonna give you everything

00:50:48   that the jump to M1 would have given you and more,

00:50:50   and that's what most people are gonna buy.

00:50:52   But like this laptop, it's just not that exciting.

00:50:54   - If you've got an Intel MacBook Pro 13 inch,

00:50:57   you should be upgrading to the new MacBook Air.

00:50:59   You should not be upgrading to this machine.

00:51:02   Like you will get a new design, you will get new features,

00:51:05   you will get more ports.

00:51:06   - You get an extra port because if you charge your laptop

00:51:11   on this one, you lose one of the two ports that it's got.

00:51:15   Whereas on the Air, if you charge your laptop,

00:51:18   you still have two ports on it.

00:51:20   - The true replacement for the Intel 13 inch MacBook Pro.

00:51:22   - Extra screen space because the menu bar

00:51:27   creeps up around the webcam.

00:51:29   You get a better webcam.

00:51:30   This console has the 720p webcam in it.

00:51:33   - Yes, bad computer, get a MacBook Air.

00:51:36   That is the upgrade guarantee.

00:51:39   - It's not a bad computer,

00:51:42   but it's using outmoded technology

00:51:46   that Apple's only selling to hit a price point.

00:51:48   And there's another product at the same price point.

00:51:52   that does this better.

00:51:55   So unless you just, again,

00:51:58   are in one of those deep edge cases,

00:52:00   like just don't, if you're listening to upgrade,

00:52:02   like don't do it, just don't do it.

00:52:03   - 'Cause it's like we were talking about this too, right?

00:52:06   Like people say like it's got a fan in it, which is true.

00:52:08   But if you are doing work at a sustained level

00:52:13   on a MacBook Pro M2,

00:52:17   where you need the fan

00:52:18   because of the difference the fan's gonna make,

00:52:20   you have to push these chips so far,

00:52:23   you also shouldn't be using this machine

00:52:26   'cause it's not good enough for you.

00:52:27   - Like I said, those are the edge cases.

00:52:30   It makes sense if you're somebody

00:52:31   for whom battery is the highest priority,

00:52:34   that you don't care about the ports

00:52:35   and all the other things that the Air does better.

00:52:37   And if you're pushing the GPU as hard as that

00:52:40   to make it really throttle on the non-fan-based system,

00:52:45   I would say to you, what work are you doing to do that?

00:52:48   And could you go up in price?

00:52:52   Can you afford to go up in price and get the 14 inch model?

00:52:55   Because if you're pushing your GPU that hard,

00:52:58   you really should get the 14 inch one if you can afford it.

00:53:01   And I'm not sure there are many people out there

00:53:04   buying the low end MacBook Pro to do graphics work

00:53:09   that is so high end that they push it to that limit.

00:53:13   Like I am, again, I'm sure there are edge cases.

00:53:17   I'm sure there are people who can barely afford

00:53:20   the base model and are gonna push it to the limits

00:53:23   and are gonna be happy with it.

00:53:25   But I would argue that if you care so much

00:53:29   about that extra headroom because of the fan,

00:53:31   you might wanna save your money

00:53:34   and wait until you've got enough money to buy the 14 inch

00:53:38   because it's just gonna be so much better on every level.

00:53:43   So that's why I'm skeptical of how large the edge cases are

00:53:46   for this. I want to be fair to the product and say yes, it does have some benefits, but

00:53:50   I really don't believe many people would, who fit that model exist. I just don't believe

00:53:56   it.

00:53:57   So it's the summer of fun. So we're going to do something weird today. We're going to

00:54:03   do what I'm calling the iPhone stats check. I have accumulated a variety of things that

00:54:11   have numbers attached to them about iPhones that you can get from poking around inside

00:54:18   of the iPhone, we're going to compare our stats. So, starting out with, how many apps

00:54:25   do you have installed on your iPhone, Jason Stell?

00:54:28   Right, can we start with what our phone is?

00:54:30   Oh yeah, that's a good stat.

00:54:32   The greatest stat of all?

00:54:33   Mm-hmm. What is your phone?

00:54:35   Mine's an iPhone 13 mini in blue. That's what it is?

00:54:40   - I have a iPhone 13 Pro Max in gold,

00:54:44   AKA the best phone.

00:54:47   - Sure.

00:54:48   (laughing)

00:54:50   - How many apps do you have installed?

00:54:51   - Thank you, my phone is the best phone, thank you.

00:54:54   I have 105 apps installed.

00:54:56   - Okay, I have 323.

00:54:59   - Seems a bit extreme.

00:55:02   - There's some numbers in here, I saw them,

00:55:04   I was like, why?

00:55:05   - Well, once App Library exists, right?

00:55:08   - Yeah, it's all there, man.

00:55:10   You can just not delete apps and they just are there.

00:55:13   And then if you turn on the setting that offloads them,

00:55:15   if you don't use them, they're still there,

00:55:18   but they're not actually there.

00:55:19   - I mean, I don't do the offloading.

00:55:20   - So you can really go to town.

00:55:21   - Because I have a 512 gigabyte iPhone,

00:55:24   which is important for the next question

00:55:27   of how many gigabytes of your iPhone is used.

00:55:30   - Well, I only have 128 gigabyte iPhone and I'm using 81.

00:55:38   Well, you can only get so much storage in that little phone,

00:55:41   you know, it's small, so you can just like small chips.

00:55:43   Makes sense.

00:55:45   I'm using 292 gigabytes of my iPhone storage.

00:55:49   - That's a lot.

00:55:51   I guess when your capacity goes up, your usage goes up too.

00:55:55   - Yeah, the reason that I went with the 512 is that my,

00:56:00   whenever it was that I went from 256 to 512,

00:56:03   I was already starting to push up towards 256.

00:56:06   And I'm like, okay, I don't want to ever think about this.

00:56:09   I'm just gonna go 512, now I'm on 512.

00:56:12   It's gonna be a long time before I need to go up from there.

00:56:16   - When I was buying this phone,

00:56:18   I looked at what my usage was on my previous phone

00:56:20   and I realized that I couldn't use, 128 would be fine.

00:56:25   I'll put it that way, was not an issue.

00:56:29   So I saved a little money.

00:56:31   - One of my reasons is I have all my photos and videos

00:56:35   save locally to my device.

00:56:36   - I don't, iCloud, photo library.

00:56:40   - Well, I mean, we'll get to why in a minute,

00:56:42   but that's one of the things for me,

00:56:44   like I have mine and that's a huge,

00:56:46   I don't know, I don't need to, I just want to.

00:56:49   And so I do.

00:56:50   How many songs do you have on your iPhone?

00:56:53   - I have 533.

00:56:59   I believe this only counts ones that are downloaded

00:57:02   to music.

00:57:03   - I'm expecting so, yes.

00:57:05   I'm at 950, I don't know why, but that's what I'm at.

00:57:10   I think maybe the phone's just downloading a bunch of stuff

00:57:13   on its own, right?

00:57:14   'Cause I have the storage space.

00:57:15   - I have, well, what I do is I have a bunch of playlists

00:57:19   and stuff that I've marked as download for--

00:57:22   - I've done some of that too, but I think the phone's--

00:57:24   - For airplane trips, basically.

00:57:27   - That's exactly why I have mine too.

00:57:29   - Yeah.

00:57:30   - How many videos are on your device?

00:57:32   - 2,517.

00:57:34   - Right, and then obviously,

00:57:36   this is where the thing is a little complicated,

00:57:38   but like that's not what you've got downloaded,

00:57:40   but that's just what the device can see, right?

00:57:43   - So videos is a weird one,

00:57:44   'cause I was like, why do I have that many?

00:57:46   And I thought, do I have TV shows?

00:57:47   Do I have movies?

00:57:48   Why do I have 2000 movies on this little tiny...

00:57:49   The answer is that this is an iCloud photo library number,

00:57:53   or at least includes iCloud photo library,

00:57:56   and it doesn't have to be local for it to be counted.

00:57:59   So that includes all the videos that I've ever shot

00:58:02   that are in my iCloud photo library.

00:58:04   - I thought my number was high, which is 697.

00:58:08   (laughing)

00:58:10   - It turns out it's nothing.

00:58:12   - I mentioned having all my photos downloaded.

00:58:16   I have 15,651 photos on my iPhone.

00:58:21   Jason, how many photos are on your iPhone?

00:58:24   - 94,000.

00:58:25   - Is that exactly?

00:58:27   - Yes.

00:58:28   - That's unbelievable.

00:58:30   - Well, I've got news for you.

00:58:31   I took that picture for something

00:58:33   that'll be in the pro show today,

00:58:36   Upgrade Plus about, yes, well,

00:58:39   the pro show is how connected refers to it.

00:58:41   So I'm just using the jargon, the vernacular.

00:58:43   I mentioned as people will hear in Upgrade Plus

00:58:46   that I got some new key caps for my keyboard

00:58:47   and I took a picture.

00:58:49   I had already done the numbers.

00:58:50   So I'm excited to report that having taken the picture

00:58:52   of my keyboard and posted it to the members Slack,

00:58:55   I'm now at 94,001.

00:58:58   - Your name is a love of the place today.

00:59:00   - I don't know.

00:59:01   - I'm counting photos, Myke.

00:59:02   I got no time for anything but counting photos at this point.

00:59:05   My point is I was at 94,000 when you asked me this question,

00:59:09   but now I'm at 94,001 because I took a picture

00:59:11   of my keyboard.

00:59:12   - Unbelievable.

00:59:13   That's such a huge number.

00:59:14   - And that's iCloud Photo Library.

00:59:15   Again, those aren't on the device.

00:59:17   They're an iCloud Photo Library,

00:59:18   but I just went over to my Photos app on my Mac

00:59:20   and it is a similar, although not exactly the same,

00:59:24   of course, 'cause it's iCloud Photo Library number.

00:59:27   - I wonder how big your iPhone would need to be

00:59:29   to hold your iCloud photo library database?

00:59:32   Click down on it.

00:59:33   - Well, the iCloud photo library itself

00:59:35   is many gigabytes.

00:59:40   - Yeah.

00:59:41   - So-- - No joke.

00:59:43   - It's like a terabyte or something, I don't know.

00:59:44   It's a lot.

00:59:45   It doesn't fit.

00:59:47   It's on my server.

00:59:47   That's where it lives, in iCloud.

00:59:49   - How many home screens do you have,

00:59:51   including hidden home screens?

00:59:53   - One.

00:59:56   - I have four.

00:59:58   I have three usually,

00:59:59   and then one that I enable when I'm traveling,

01:00:02   which is like a whole travel set up home screen.

01:00:05   - Yeah, no, it's a nice idea.

01:00:06   I like the idea of the travel home screen.

01:00:08   I may set, try to set that up for when I'm traveling.

01:00:12   - It's really nice.

01:00:13   - 'Cause it's a nice idea.

01:00:14   But I, and in fact, Relay FM members, I guess,

01:00:18   well, got an email over the weekend with my home screen.

01:00:21   After doing that, I had a conversation

01:00:26   in a great Slack that we are in.

01:00:29   And I decided to embrace the Siri app widget lifestyle.

01:00:34   'Cause what I was thinking is I don't actually know what,

01:00:42   my old home screen strategy is invalid now

01:00:45   because of app library and because I use search all the time.

01:00:50   - Yep. - Do I really need anything?

01:00:52   All the home screen serves now is as a quick

01:00:56   access for apps that I don't need to search for

01:01:00   because I use them so often

01:01:01   that they need to be right there on the top.

01:01:02   That's it, right?

01:01:03   'Cause you can just pull down to search

01:01:06   and find anything and launch it.

01:01:07   So what is that home screen for?

01:01:10   And so for me, it's got some widgets on it.

01:01:13   It's now got the Siri widget on it,

01:01:17   which shows eight apps that the phone thinks I might want.

01:01:21   And then it's got 12 apps that I chose myself.

01:01:26   And so far, that's actually pretty good.

01:01:28   It kind of knows the apps that I use regularly

01:01:30   that aren't visible on the home screen and surfaces them.

01:01:33   And if they're not there, then I just do a quick search.

01:01:35   So that's what I'm trying now.

01:01:38   - Yeah, I use the Siri suggestions a lot from Spotlight.

01:01:41   You know, like when you pull down,

01:01:42   typically the app that I wanna search for

01:01:45   is usually in that.

01:01:46   So I'm not surprised that that widget does well.

01:01:48   And of my three home screens,

01:01:50   I'm gonna ask this number in a minute.

01:01:51   So let me just ask this number.

01:01:52   How many widgets now do you have on your home screen?

01:01:56   - Well, I put down two, but it's actually three

01:01:59   because I've got the widget that is my weather station,

01:02:02   like current temperature and stuff.

01:02:04   I've got the widget that's air quality, which I wrote.

01:02:06   Both of those are ones that I wrote in Scriptable,

01:02:09   the excellent app that lets you write your own widgets

01:02:12   in JavaScript.

01:02:13   And then I have the Siri suggestions app widget

01:02:17   right below it, which is great because it is invisible.

01:02:20   It just looks like there are eight apps there,

01:02:22   but they move when you're not looking.

01:02:24   - So of my three home screens,

01:02:27   two and a half of them are widgets.

01:02:30   I have 10 widgets across the three homes.

01:02:33   I only have app icons on the first one.

01:02:35   I love all of my widgets.

01:02:37   I have great widgets.

01:02:37   I have carrot and fantastic cow in a stack.

01:02:40   I have Timery.

01:02:41   And then I have a bunch of Widgetsmith ones,

01:02:44   which is like a time one, a pollen one,

01:02:46   which is really great.

01:02:47   I love the pollen thing.

01:02:49   I have some photos ones.

01:02:51   I have an app called Train Beacon that tells me

01:02:54   train times for whom are destinations that I need.

01:02:57   I have a fitness one.

01:02:59   I have another time re-widget,

01:03:00   like that's got more statistics

01:03:02   than just telling me what the current running one is.

01:03:04   And then a craft widget as well

01:03:06   for the craft notes that I use, so.

01:03:08   - I do have a couple of widgets that are off,

01:03:11   off on the left to right swipe.

01:03:14   - I do too, I didn't include those in there, but.

01:03:17   - Yeah, they're not on home screens,

01:03:18   but I do have Fantastic Cal out there

01:03:19   and actually the batteries widget is out there too.

01:03:22   - I have a lot of shortcuts widgets out on that page.

01:03:26   What is your battery health percentage?

01:03:29   - 96%.

01:03:31   - 97.

01:03:33   Good big battery. - Good battery.

01:03:34   - Good big battery.

01:03:35   How many hours have you saved in Overcast?

01:03:40   - 183.

01:03:42   - I'm at 318.

01:03:46   - This is always the one though, like I say that number,

01:03:49   like that's a big number and then I'll listen

01:03:50   and send in there like 200,000 hour ones.

01:03:53   - Well, we don't listen at three X.

01:03:55   - What was your total screen time last week?

01:03:59   - Well, screen time tells me it was nine hours

01:04:03   and 18 minutes, which is just--

01:04:04   - Was that the average or the total?

01:04:06   - I think that was the total.

01:04:08   - No, that can't be right.

01:04:09   - No, it's wrong.

01:04:11   - Screen time does get things wrong.

01:04:13   - Well, and I think I've got it turned off

01:04:14   in a bunch of places.

01:04:15   - Yeah, I have it on everywhere.

01:04:17   - I decided that screen time,

01:04:18   I decided that screen time was a complete waste of my time

01:04:21   and I turned it off.

01:04:22   - Okay, I have it turned on all my computers,

01:04:25   my iPhone, iPad, Mac, sort of kind of stuff

01:04:27   and I have 54 hours and 48 minutes,

01:04:29   which, you know, looks like a huge difference

01:04:33   between the two of us,

01:04:34   but that's assuming that one is correct.

01:04:37   How many focus modes do you have?

01:04:44   - Hard to, so I have two that I made.

01:04:47   - Yep.

01:04:48   - And then the ones that come with the OS.

01:04:52   - I have three that I made.

01:04:56   There's four total.

01:04:57   One of them is just one of the ones,

01:04:58   like a work one I never adjusted.

01:05:00   I think I deleted some of the ones that were built into,

01:05:03   but I have four focus modes.

01:05:05   How many shortcuts do you have?

01:05:06   - We're not gonna talk about our focus modes?

01:05:10   - Oh, I mean, yeah, we can talk about our focus modes.

01:05:12   - What are your four focus modes?

01:05:13   So my focus modes are, I'm going to the now,

01:05:17   so I get all the names for you.

01:05:18   I have do not disturb, obviously.

01:05:20   I have a fitness focus mode

01:05:22   that turns off notification from absolutely everything.

01:05:26   Recording, which is what is on right now,

01:05:31   which basically puts me in do not disturb

01:05:33   bar a couple of contacts.

01:05:35   And then there is a travel focus mode

01:05:37   that was supposed to be tied into that travel home screen,

01:05:41   but I realized I don't want to be in a focus mode

01:05:43   the entire time I'm traveling because of the way that focus works currently so I ended

01:05:49   up not using that and just manually enabling the home screen. I made change to this so

01:05:55   now that the focus mode options can now be like a opt in opt out rather than just like

01:06:00   all opt in of the apps and people you want to use I will probably change over maybe I'll

01:06:06   you know maybe I've traveled I might like turn off stack notifications or something

01:06:10   Who knows, but I'll play around with that more with iOS 16 for the travel.

01:06:14   I have a personal one that I theoretically could use, but I've never used.

01:06:19   The one that I have used is I have a work one that essentially is my writing focus mode

01:06:23   and it just, it's gently shutting down a whole bunch of notifications while I'm writing so

01:06:28   that I don't get as distracted.

01:06:30   I still let people, there are a bunch of people in apps that can get through, but it's a reduced

01:06:35   set so there's reduced distraction.

01:06:37   But I like the idea of trying to work on like a recording focus mode is a good idea.

01:06:44   Yeah, some of those.

01:06:45   I need to put some time into those.

01:06:47   Yeah, that writing one for you is kind of similar to a recording one for me.

01:06:51   But it's very, very, very pared down, my recording focus mode.

01:06:55   I like it especially on the Mac, right?

01:06:57   So it's very few notifications coming through.

01:07:01   How many shortcuts do you have?

01:07:03   135.

01:07:04   I'm at 51.

01:07:06   I recently went through and got rid of a lot of stuff.

01:07:08   I was at like 200 and I went through and got rid of tons.

01:07:12   - Yeah, I mean, I've got some stuff in there

01:07:14   that I need to get out that stuff I added

01:07:15   for the Mac stories contest.

01:07:18   Like I've got the text adventure still in there.

01:07:20   I can probably delete that.

01:07:21   But, and this is not really about our iPhones, right?

01:07:24   It's about what's present in iCloud.

01:07:26   So it's our shortcuts across devices.

01:07:28   So I could delete a bunch of them,

01:07:30   but I actually do use a bunch of them

01:07:32   and more all the time now that they also are on the Mac.

01:07:35   So yeah, so it's a lot.

01:07:38   - How many Apple notes?

01:07:40   - 860.

01:07:42   - Woo, I'm at 688, I thought I had a lot.

01:07:45   I don't delete any, I assume you don't either.

01:07:48   - I don't, well, clearly I don't.

01:07:50   - Yeah, I mean, I kind of like,

01:07:51   I know people that delete notes, like why?

01:07:53   Just leave them there, it's like nothing, just,

01:07:55   you never know when you might need them.

01:07:56   - And then you can search them and find them later

01:07:58   if there's something in them, you're like, what was that?

01:08:00   And then, so it's funny, I don't use notes for everything,

01:08:04   But I do put some things like when I was testing

01:08:08   the M2 MacBook Pro, I put like the scores in there

01:08:11   cause they sync across devices.

01:08:13   So if I take the scores on a system for a test

01:08:16   that I'm running, I can either use that system

01:08:18   or I can use a different system to note it

01:08:20   while I'm running it.

01:08:21   And they all just sync together in one place.

01:08:22   That's nice.

01:08:23   I will occasionally do a, you know, jot this down

01:08:29   where somebody is like, can I tell you something?

01:08:30   And I'm like, all right, let me just quick open a note

01:08:32   and I'll write it down.

01:08:33   The biggest thing I use notes for is podcast notes,

01:08:38   especially for the incomparable,

01:08:42   if I'm watching a movie or TV show.

01:08:44   And while I'm watching it,

01:08:45   I'm taking notes so that I can know what to talk about.

01:08:48   And so my notes is full of that, just packed full of that.

01:08:53   - How many tab groups do you have in Safari?

01:08:57   - Three.

01:09:00   - What are they?

01:09:02   They are, let's look, I have one called Product,

01:09:07   which I think is, yeah, this is a project I was doing

01:09:13   where I was trying to think about building.

01:09:18   So it's stuff like, can I build a new script for my,

01:09:23   for one writer or a shortcut

01:09:25   that will do faster Amazon affiliate linking?

01:09:30   'cause there was an app for that,

01:09:32   but that app kind of sunset.

01:09:35   So I've got like little project notes in here

01:09:36   and also a publishing on Apple news

01:09:38   that's sort of like, am I gonna ever convert six colors

01:09:41   to use the Apple news format?

01:09:42   Don't know if I actually am

01:09:44   'cause there are lots of issues with that,

01:09:46   but that's all like resources for things

01:09:50   that I want to look into building at some point.

01:09:54   I have something called buy stuff,

01:09:56   which is literally products I'm sort of interested in buying

01:09:59   but not right now.

01:10:01   And I have a big,

01:10:02   it's like six or seven things open in there.

01:10:04   Which like, I'm not gonna buy this now.

01:10:06   And it used to be, I just leave that tab open

01:10:07   until I accidentally close it.

01:10:09   And then I would never buy it.

01:10:10   And now I send those tabs to buy stuff.

01:10:13   And then I have a tab called work stuff.

01:10:17   What is in this tab?

01:10:20   I don't even know.

01:10:20   - What's going on with that group?

01:10:23   - That's funny.

01:10:23   - You don't even know do you?

01:10:27   - There's, it's why this isn't always, well, yeah,

01:10:30   there's just banana stuff is in here.

01:10:32   The original iPod press releases in here,

01:10:35   WordPress REST API is in here,

01:10:37   archiving and version control for keyboard maestro.

01:10:40   - This is a mishmash.

01:10:43   - It's yeah, I think it's stuff that I wanted to keep around

01:10:46   but didn't want, right?

01:10:49   I mean, there's stuff like the,

01:10:51   I was thinking about buying a different kind of partition

01:10:53   instead of curtains from my office that's in here.

01:10:55   It's a, it's blog posts.

01:10:57   - It's basically junk.

01:10:58   There's just junk in there.

01:10:59   - Yeah, there's a junk drawer.

01:11:00   - I don't know why it's there.

01:11:01   - There's a junk drawer.

01:11:02   I have seven.

01:11:03   - Wow, I hope they're better organized than mine.

01:11:06   - Yes, 'cause I use them all.

01:11:09   Like every day I have a Relay FM tab group,

01:11:12   which is just all things.

01:11:14   What I love about tab groups is I have like

01:11:16   this Relay FM tab group, it has like 25 tabs

01:11:20   and it's like anything I could need.

01:11:22   It's all of, it's like all tabs for all of our

01:11:24   publishing tools, our ad tools, the memberful dashboards in there, a bunch of Google sheets

01:11:30   are in there for like keeping up with tracking stuff, Freshbooks, Trello, like anything I

01:11:34   could need. It's all in there and I just leave them all open and then they're always cluttering

01:11:38   up my tab bar. I have one for recording which I'm in right now, which just has show documents

01:11:44   and the CMS in there. I have one for Cortex brand which is similar like all of the various

01:11:50   projects we have there and like I have the various websites I'm working on in there.

01:11:56   I have one for keyboard stuff like products that I'm interested in. I have one for we're

01:12:02   going through the house buying process again so I've got a new home tab group. I have one

01:12:08   for my mentorship that I do for podcast mentorship and I have a tab group which currently has

01:12:14   nothing in it which is vacation and anytime we're planning a vacation all of the tabs

01:12:19   for the vacation go in the vacation tab group.

01:12:22   - That's a good use.

01:12:23   Excellent work.

01:12:24   - I look forward to making that tab group

01:12:26   a shared tab group.

01:12:28   - Yeah.

01:12:29   - With iOS and MacOS 16.

01:12:31   - For sure.

01:12:32   - So yeah, that's tab groups.

01:12:34   Oh, I had one last one for you.

01:12:36   How many unread emails do you have?

01:12:38   - Somewhere between none and 2,477.

01:12:48   - I don't understand.

01:12:50   Can be the answer to this question.

01:12:53   - So I use SaneBox and my inbox is completely read,

01:12:58   although there's lots of messages in it,

01:12:59   but I've read them all.

01:13:00   I also have SaneLater and SaneNews, they're unread.

01:13:06   There are lots of them in there, but I don't care.

01:13:10   But my inbox itself, although not at zero,

01:13:13   there's lots of things in the inbox,

01:13:15   but it's not, there's nothing unread in there,

01:13:18   just in the other priority mailboxes.

01:13:22   - Yeah, exactly.

01:13:23   - I have eight unread emails in my emailing box right now.

01:13:27   - Get to that.

01:13:28   - I'll try.

01:13:29   - Okay.

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01:15:21   Let's do some #AskUpgradeQuestions to finish today's episode.

01:15:26   First comes from John.

01:15:27   Jason, what is the right pronunciation of the new version of macOS?

01:15:32   I have been hearing various levels throughout various podcasts and would like the definitive

01:15:37   Californian take.

01:15:38   Is it "ven-tura", "ven-tura", "ven-tura", or "ven-tura"?

01:15:47   Well first off I want to say there's no such thing as definitive pronunciations.

01:15:50   But you did this before with one of the Californian names.

01:15:54   You were saying as a Californian, it's this.

01:15:58   I don't remember which one it was.

01:15:59   Maybe it was Monterey or something?

01:16:01   - Maybe it was Monterey.

01:16:02   So I would say that although I've been referring

01:16:06   to Ventura a lot, if you asked me about,

01:16:11   that we're gonna drive through Ventura on the way

01:16:16   to wherever, I would do the ch sound.

01:16:20   I would do Ventura, almost like it's V-E-N-C-H-U-R-A,

01:16:24   Ventura, a little bit, instead of Ventura.

01:16:26   I think that's mostly laziness,

01:16:28   and that's a lot of accents come from laziness

01:16:31   where it's like, eh, do I need to be that precise?

01:16:33   Do I need to pop that T, Ventura?

01:16:35   Ventura is a very, that's my radio voice of saying Ventura,

01:16:40   when in fact, in real life, I would just say Ventura.

01:16:43   Ventura. Like a churro.

01:16:45   Oh, okay.

01:16:46   But you can do whatever.

01:16:47   Ventura and Ventura.

01:16:48   I mean, I've already said, I like to say Ventura.

01:16:49   I like to say ventura, 'cause it just sounds more fun,

01:16:51   like to just put a bit of like zorro on it or something.

01:16:54   Ventura.

01:16:55   That's how I'm going.

01:16:57   Ventura, ventura, ventura is not, no, ventura,

01:17:01   like vench, ventura.

01:17:03   Yeah.

01:17:04   Ventura is probably what I would say,

01:17:06   and in radio voice it's been ventura.

01:17:08   Ventura, ventura.

01:17:10   The Cadillac ventura.

01:17:11   What about ventura?

01:17:13   No. Is that good?

01:17:15   No.

01:17:16   Ventura.

01:17:17   Ventura.

01:17:17   Ventura.

01:17:18   - Vento-ray. - It's like a cross

01:17:19   between Monterey and Ventura.

01:17:20   - Ventolina, that's the new version of Mac.

01:17:22   - You know what's between Ventura and Monterey?

01:17:24   Confusingly big sir.

01:17:25   - Huh, okay.

01:17:29   Johan asks, "When do you think Apple

01:17:31   "will stop supporting Intel Macs?"

01:17:33   - Oh, you know, I mean, where's the line right now?

01:17:40   I would say stop supporting, it'll be a few years,

01:17:43   you know, two or three years.

01:17:47   getting fewer features every time,

01:17:49   having banner features not be there,

01:17:51   that'll start happening.

01:17:54   But stop supporting them altogether.

01:17:57   It'll be a while, right?

01:17:58   I think Apple's generally pretty good at that.

01:17:59   People are angry about Stage Manager,

01:18:00   but I think in general,

01:18:02   Apple's pretty good at keeping older hardware around

01:18:05   and not completely dropping them out.

01:18:08   There's also some good security reasons for that, right?

01:18:11   So I would say bet on the longer side,

01:18:13   but expect that they're gonna start omitting features

01:18:16   and it'll be more like, yeah, you get the new update,

01:18:18   but you don't really get the new features.

01:18:20   You just sort of are on the base and have the security updates,

01:18:23   and then at some point that'll go away.

01:18:25   So they could change. I mean, they're very changeable,

01:18:28   and this is a new thing, but I have to feel like

01:18:31   there's two or three years left for sure.

01:18:33   -Ventura is on 2017.

01:18:36   It's as far back as it goes on some Macs, so...

01:18:40   -So I would say that would suggest

01:18:42   that it might be four years before they drop it completely,

01:18:46   which is, I think that that would not,

01:18:48   that might be my guess, if I had to bet, it would be 25.

01:18:52   - 2025. - That the 25, WWDC 25,

01:18:56   they would say no more Intel.

01:18:58   - But understand that by that point,

01:19:00   you will be able to upgrade,

01:19:02   but you probably won't get many of the new features

01:19:04   they're adding every year. - Right.

01:19:05   And you may not be happy with, I mean,

01:19:07   are they gonna optimize for performance on Intel systems?

01:19:10   No. Are they gonna optimize for the machine learning,

01:19:15   like all the things that they can get

01:19:18   on the Apple Silicon chips?

01:19:20   Yes. And so, yeah, it's gonna be,

01:19:22   using an Intel Mac will become a less pleasant experience

01:19:26   if you're trying to stay up to date

01:19:28   with the latest and greatest

01:19:29   over the course of the next few years.

01:19:31   But I think 25, you know, that might be the final,

01:19:36   like, no, this new macOS Death Valley

01:19:40   and 25, the Intel Macs are the ones that are in Death Valley at that point, something like

01:19:45   that.

01:19:46   - Eric writes, "I'm seeing calls for people who menstruate to delete their cycle tracking

01:19:51   apps in light of the overturning of Roe, as people fear that states may seek that data

01:19:56   to prosecute those who've had abortions.

01:19:59   Isn't the Apple cycle tracker safe?

01:20:02   What about other apps?"

01:20:04   So I have also been seeing a lot of this, and it's quite complicated.

01:20:08   I'm going to put a link in the show notes to an article that EFF wrote.

01:20:14   It seems to be like this is one of those things where there is a lot of fear and also scaremongering.

01:20:23   Unfortunately I see a lot of these tweets and I wonder are people just trying to go

01:20:26   viral on Twitter?

01:20:29   You can never really tell and that kind of stuff can be a bit tricky.

01:20:33   So the EFF kind of says, like, check the privacy policy of the apps that you're using. They

01:20:40   recommend one. I've seen a lot of people recommend an app called Clue as well. Apparently they

01:20:44   have a pretty good privacy policy about data and stuff. You've put a link in the show notes.

01:20:51   Yeah, John Gruber did a Daring Fireball post today about this, and he mentions what the

01:20:58   Apple Health policy is. Basically, if you're using iOS 12 or later and have two-factor

01:21:03   your health records are end-to-end encrypted.

01:21:07   So they don't show up anywhere and Apple can't get to them.

01:21:11   And then in addition, by default,

01:21:13   you can turn off the iCloud syncing entirely

01:21:16   at which point it's just on device.

01:21:18   And so that I think the Apple,

01:21:21   this is one of those cases where Apple's privacy policies

01:21:23   are probably really beneficial because you,

01:21:25   even if there's a good app out there,

01:21:27   you have to feel personally comfortable

01:21:29   that the developer of that app has secure and-

01:21:32   remains good.

01:21:34   - Like privacy and storage and how everything is working.

01:21:37   And I think that with Apple, you have a better idea

01:21:39   that if they don't have it unencrypted in some form

01:21:43   and they don't have the key,

01:21:45   then it really is unreachable by Apple.

01:21:46   And we've seen some cases of that

01:21:48   in like the San Bernardino case

01:21:52   where Apple refused to decrypt.

01:21:55   Like there's different acts depending on where

01:21:58   like messages can be, messages are in to unencrypted

01:22:01   but the iMessage backup is not, right?

01:22:03   Like there are places where this varies, but--

01:22:06   - If you use messages in the cloud,

01:22:08   you give up the end-to-end encryption

01:22:11   because the key also-- - It's still there,

01:22:13   but the archive is not because they've got the key.

01:22:18   - Well, yeah, with the backup of the messages

01:22:21   is also the key.

01:22:22   So if, what Apple do,

01:22:25   'cause I did some research on this too today,

01:22:27   what Apple do give up to law enforcement

01:22:30   is iCloud backup information.

01:22:34   And that includes some stuff.

01:22:36   Like you can go and look on Apple's website

01:22:37   and you can see the things that's included.

01:22:39   Health data is not included in that

01:22:42   because it is fully end-to-end encrypted.

01:22:44   It's one of the things that's fully end-to-end encrypted.

01:22:46   So the only way that law enforcement

01:22:49   could get this information

01:22:50   is if they had actual physical access to a device of yours.

01:22:54   So as long as your device is properly secured,

01:22:58   that data can't be accessed.

01:22:59   Now, of course, you then get into all of those situations

01:23:02   of, like, physical device security, right?

01:23:05   And at that point, if you are that concerned

01:23:07   about your physical device security,

01:23:09   there is no app that you can be --

01:23:12   -Yeah, you'd be better off not using electronic devices

01:23:16   because -- -Yep.

01:23:18   -Or doing it in a code or something because, yeah,

01:23:22   if the police demand you to unlock your device

01:23:25   and if they force it open,

01:23:28   It doesn't matter that you've got it only on your device.

01:23:31   'Cause your device is now open.

01:23:33   - So this is a very murky water situation.

01:23:39   Yes, there are options, but it all depends on what you are.

01:23:44   But the other part is it also depends

01:23:46   on what your comfort level is.

01:23:48   But if what you are, the answer of this question of like,

01:23:53   is there a quote unquote safe option?

01:23:55   Yes, it's Apple's Health app.

01:23:57   that's the one that you can feel confident about,

01:23:59   that they're not going to,

01:24:01   as confident as you can in a technology company,

01:24:03   that they're not gonna do something like this, right?

01:24:07   I still want Apple to do full end-to-end encryption

01:24:11   of everything, including messages, right?

01:24:15   Like I want full end-to-end encryption of iCloud backups.

01:24:18   I know why they don't do it,

01:24:20   but I think I should be able to check 100 boxes and get it.

01:24:25   Because the reason they don't do it

01:24:27   is because if I lost all my devices or whatever,

01:24:30   then I've lost all of the data, it's gone.

01:24:34   I still want to take that into my own hands, right?

01:24:38   But, 'cause the idea is like,

01:24:40   if you've lost all your devices and all your passwords,

01:24:43   you just so many things have to get lost

01:24:45   where I'm confident I would never get myself

01:24:47   into that situation, but I know why they do it

01:24:49   because Apple have so many millions and millions

01:24:51   and millions of users, there will be a non-sizable portion

01:24:55   of those people that will lose that password and then they've lost their photos. I'm

01:25:00   confident that's not going to happen to me. So I wish that they would let people do

01:25:05   it with a hundred keys you have to turn or whatever, right? But they don't offer it.

01:25:09   So some stuff is in that backup. Health data is not one of those things, thankfully.

01:25:16   Brando asks, "I was wondering if all apps work in stage manager on iPad or if apps have

01:25:22   to be compiled to work with it like was the case with split screen.

01:25:26   One of the great things about stage manager as compared to split screen is because it

01:25:30   wasn't like, you had to do a lot of work to get split screen to work.

01:25:34   But with stage manager, every iPad app works, some better than others.

01:25:38   But basically if an app was already supporting split screen, it's going to work.

01:25:45   It works even better if there's an app that supports multiple windows.

01:25:49   But yeah, every app can work.

01:25:50   of them will just be full screen and you can't do anything with it, including some of the

01:25:54   stuff that Apple makes, including settings.

01:25:56   Yeah.

01:25:57   You know.

01:25:58   I, there have been a lot of conversation about settings, especially on the Mac with the new

01:26:02   settings app.

01:26:04   Um, my, the settings app is, is yeah, full screen, uh, tall on iPad and not resizable

01:26:12   on the Mac.

01:26:13   And I don't understand, I just don't understand why this is on both fronts.

01:26:17   It's like it doesn't, it's just a window.

01:26:19   Let me move the window.

01:26:21   - I had a thing today, which was funny,

01:26:22   where I had the settings app open

01:26:25   and I wanted to open one password

01:26:27   'cause I was adding a card to Apple Pay.

01:26:31   So I needed the verification code of the card

01:26:33   like this on the back.

01:26:34   I didn't remember it, so I wanted to bring out one password.

01:26:37   In Stage Manager, there's no slide over anymore, right?

01:26:41   So it wouldn't let me bring in a second window

01:26:43   because settings is full screen.

01:26:45   - It's full screen.

01:26:46   - Wow, yeah, it is, that's probably gonna get fixed

01:26:50   during the beta cycle, but most apps,

01:26:52   to answer Brando's point here, most apps work fine.

01:26:56   I would say the bigger issue is they're using

01:26:59   the apps' resizability based on not just multitasking,

01:27:04   but all the different screens, right?

01:27:06   So they're able to, apps are able to provide

01:27:11   different behaviors and present different interfaces

01:27:13   based on whether they're on an iPhone or an iPad,

01:27:16   or whether they're on a big iPad or a small iPad,

01:27:19   or they're in split view, right?

01:27:21   They have different appearances.

01:27:22   And what Stage Manager is doing is taking advantage

01:27:24   of all of those different appearances

01:27:27   to let you resize the window.

01:27:29   And basically what you're doing is you're telling that app,

01:27:31   "My device is this size now, my device is this size now,"

01:27:34   and the app relays out.

01:27:37   What I would say app developers are going to need to do

01:27:39   this summer is look at their apps

01:27:43   in the context of Stage Manager

01:27:44   and realize when the behaviors that they assumed

01:27:48   based on you being on a device

01:27:50   are not the same based on being in Stage Manager.

01:27:55   And I'll give you an example, which is Slack.

01:27:58   On the Mac, you can have an app window

01:28:02   that has the channels on the left

01:28:05   and the content on the right.

01:28:07   In Stage Manager, if you are in anything but full screen,

01:28:12   Slack is basically saying, oh, you're in a compact view,

01:28:15   I'm not gonna show you that thing on the left,

01:28:18   and it's infuriating.

01:28:20   It's not their fault.

01:28:21   They didn't know that this beta was happening,

01:28:22   but it's an example where they're making an assumption

01:28:26   that this is a fairly compact view,

01:28:27   I'm gonna hide that sidebar on the left side,

01:28:30   give the content as much room.

01:28:31   It's like, I don't want that sidebar hidden,

01:28:33   I want it to stay open all the time.

01:28:34   And because when you slide it over,

01:28:36   that goes over the content, you can't leave it open.

01:28:39   You can't choose.

01:28:40   And that's gonna be one of those things

01:28:41   that all app developers are gonna have to think is like,

01:28:43   oh, I should make it so that people can choose

01:28:45   to show or hide this, because in some contexts,

01:28:48   you might wanna do that.

01:28:49   - This is again, like why developers

01:28:52   should have adopted Apple's sidebar for iPad stuff

01:28:56   for these reasons.

01:28:57   I will say, if you, like, I'm not saying you should do this,

01:29:01   or people should do this, but I did do it.

01:29:03   If you do the display zooming, like the more space on iPad,

01:29:07   that doesn't happen with Slack.

01:29:09   - Interesting.

01:29:11   Well, I've been using Slack on an external display

01:29:13   and it still happens.

01:29:14   - Oh, that's funny. - Even if I make it

01:29:15   really large. - That's funny.

01:29:16   - So it is not great.

01:29:19   But again, it's beta for everything.

01:29:21   And the developers who didn't even know this feature existed

01:29:23   are not to blame for it.

01:29:25   But it is, since Brando's question is,

01:29:26   are you gonna have to do things,

01:29:28   like recompiling, no,

01:29:29   because they're using standard features of the OS,

01:29:31   It should be usable, but I think there's gonna be a lot

01:29:34   of fine tuning this summer when these developers

01:29:39   are gonna get their apps in Stage Manager and go,

01:29:41   oh no, right?

01:29:43   And like, this needs to be better.

01:29:44   - Come release time, it's Slack's fault.

01:29:46   - Well, if you think about, yeah, I agree.

01:29:48   And if you think about like desktop class apps as a concept

01:29:51   on the iPad, which Apple wants us to think about,

01:29:54   think about something like a Mac app

01:29:57   that wouldn't let you turn a sidebar on and off

01:30:00   or a toolbar on and off or something like that.

01:30:03   There are some apps that do that,

01:30:05   like Slack is actually like that,

01:30:06   but in general, on the Mac,

01:30:09   there's an expectation that the user

01:30:11   has some level of control over the interface,

01:30:13   and that's less true on an iPad.

01:30:16   It's still true, but I think that

01:30:18   because the size classes thing was such a big deal

01:30:21   in the early days of the iPhone,

01:30:22   with like, there are gonna be bigger iPhones,

01:30:23   and there's the iPad,

01:30:25   and we gotta get away from pixel perfect designs

01:30:28   and do these different size classes

01:30:29   and everything is responsive to different sizes.

01:30:33   I think what got lost in that is the idea

01:30:34   that the size of the window isn't the only way

01:30:38   that your user experience should be defined.

01:30:40   It should also be defined by user intent.

01:30:42   And that's a thing that developers,

01:30:45   especially of iPad apps need to get over.

01:30:47   They need to get over the idea that the size is all

01:30:50   that matters in terms of the user experience.

01:30:52   'Cause let me tell you, using Stage Manager,

01:30:54   it really sucks if you're working on a window

01:30:57   and you wanna make it a little smaller

01:30:59   and the entire experience of what's on screen changes

01:31:03   because they think you're on a different device

01:31:06   or something like that.

01:31:06   And it's like, I'm not,

01:31:07   I just made it a little bit smaller.

01:31:09   So you need to, they're gonna need to put,

01:31:11   at least in some circumstances,

01:31:12   more control in the user's hands for that.

01:31:14   But that's what the summer is for.

01:31:16   - It's also for fun.

01:31:17   - It is also for fun.

01:31:21   - If you would like to send in a question

01:31:22   for us to answer on the show,

01:31:24   just send out a tweet with the #AskUpgrade

01:31:26   or use question mark ask upgrade

01:31:27   in the relay FM members discord. Don't forget to go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com if you want

01:31:32   to pick up an upgrade t-shirt. Just got a couple of weeks left on that. If you want

01:31:37   to find Jason online you can go to sixcolors.com. You can find him he's @jasonow, J S N E double

01:31:42   L on twitter. I am @imike, I M Y K E. Thank you so much to Zocdoc, Fitbod, TextExpander

01:31:49   and our Upgrade Plus members who help us support the show. We'll be back next time. Until then,

01:31:57   Say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:31:58   Feel better, Myke Hurley.

01:31:59   Thank you.