410: Apple Park Vibe Check


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 410. Today's episode is brought to you by Sourcegraph,

00:00:15   Bombus, Membrful and Doppler. My name is Myke Hurley and I have the absolute pleasure of

00:00:20   being joined by Jason Snell. Hi Jason! Hi Myke Hurley, we're so close to one another

00:00:25   right now. But yet so far. But yet so far. We need to talk about something in case you

00:00:30   haven't seen on Twitter. I am in San Jose as promised but after I arrived I tested positive

00:00:37   with Covid so I have spent the last couple of days in my hotel room. I've had to pull

00:00:44   out of all of the events at Apple Park. I'm very very upset about this. I was fine. I

00:00:51   did negative multiple times before I left and when I arrived a couple of hours later

00:00:55   I did a test. It was positive. I did multiple tests over like a 24-hour period and yeah,

00:01:02   I have coronavirus and I feel pretty bad, Jason, I'm not gonna lie, in multiple ways

00:01:07   emotionally and physically.

00:01:08   Yeah, oh good. It's good that you got those to sync up like.

00:01:11   Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna do it, do both of them.

00:01:12   I guess you were feeling it and I expected you to say like, "Oh, I'm fine. I'm just really

00:01:17   sad." And you're like, "No, I feel terrible."

00:01:18   Oh, I feel terrible, yeah.

00:01:20   - Great, fantastic.

00:01:22   Well, but anyway, you're in San Jose

00:01:24   and I'm in Cupertino at Apple Park

00:01:26   at the new developer center

00:01:28   where they have set up an amazing little podcast studio

00:01:31   that has been home and is home to many podcasts here.

00:01:34   So thanks to Zach Kahn and all the other people in Apple

00:01:38   for getting this to happen for us.

00:01:41   And I'm sorry you're not here.

00:01:42   - Yeah, everyone's been really amazing

00:01:43   and super nice to me, which I greatly appreciate.

00:01:47   and hopefully next time, maybe next time,

00:01:51   you know, I'll just keep saying this forever,

00:01:52   like maybe next time. - Maybe next time, sure.

00:01:55   - Kind of like the draft, Jason, maybe next time,

00:01:57   you know what I'm saying?

00:01:58   Maybe next time.

00:02:00   - You know, I did not score the draft during the event,

00:02:04   which I sometimes have done at home,

00:02:05   but I did not do this time.

00:02:07   And then at the very end, I had no idea how it would turn out

00:02:10   and even as I was clicking, 'cause we got a lot wrong,

00:02:13   I wasn't keeping score or paying attention

00:02:15   and I got to the bottom and I said, wait a second,

00:02:18   I won eight to seven.

00:02:19   How is that possible?

00:02:21   But I seem to have won.

00:02:22   - I scored it nine to eight, but yeah.

00:02:25   - Interesting.

00:02:26   Well, let's go through it real quick, if you don't mind.

00:02:28   - I would love to.

00:02:29   - Okay, so iOS and iPad.

00:02:32   Well, that's the quick part is what you love.

00:02:35   Apps can run, I picked in this category,

00:02:37   iOS and iPad OS picks.

00:02:38   Apps can run on an external display on iPad OS.

00:02:41   You got a lot to say about that, but that's yes.

00:02:44   More user controllable design and theming, that's a yes.

00:02:47   Widgets or widget-like features on the lock screen,

00:02:51   that's a yes.

00:02:51   Global keyboard shortcuts for shortcuts on iPad,

00:02:55   that's a no. - No, thank you.

00:02:57   - New car key partners named,

00:02:58   oh, if I had said car play partners,

00:03:00   all those car company logos that were up there,

00:03:03   but not for car key. - Oh, I scored that one

00:03:05   for you.

00:03:06   - No, I don't think so. - But it wasn't, was it?

00:03:08   Okay, so this has potentially changed things.

00:03:10   We might be up for a debate now, so let's carry on.

00:03:12   - No, it's good that we've dismissed Steven.

00:03:14   Classical music app, no.

00:03:17   You had new privacy focused features.

00:03:21   - Yeah.

00:03:22   - Yep, new AR features.

00:03:24   Strangely, not discussed.

00:03:27   New notification management tools outside of focus modes.

00:03:31   - So this is-- - Have that as a yes?

00:03:32   - You had that as a yes, cool, I had that as a yes.

00:03:34   I wondered if you-- - I have that as a yes.

00:03:36   Because they changed how notifications work.

00:03:39   - They do. - Right?

00:03:40   - Yeah, they did.

00:03:41   plus the eliminating sports scores and things

00:03:44   and turning those things

00:03:45   into a different kind of notification, right?

00:03:47   - Yeah, that's got a particular name,

00:03:49   which we will get to later on.

00:03:50   It's sort of like live interactions or something like that.

00:03:52   - Yeah, I don't think that's what it is,

00:03:54   but it is a new thing.

00:03:55   New features for messages. - Hey, I've got COVID brain,

00:03:57   man, you gotta let me off today, you know?

00:03:59   - All right, new features for messages.

00:04:01   Yep, yep, for sure.

00:04:03   Enhancements to Swift UI.

00:04:05   Yes, but not in the keynote. (laughs)

00:04:08   - You know, when I looked,

00:04:09   I was looking over the draft right before we started

00:04:11   and I was like, why did I pick that?

00:04:13   That was a stupid pick.

00:04:14   That was a stupid pick.

00:04:15   Like of course it was gonna happen,

00:04:17   but they weren't gonna talk about it during the keynote.

00:04:18   Come on.

00:04:19   - I had a few of those where I thought,

00:04:20   why did I think they would say that at the keynote?

00:04:22   - So stupid.

00:04:23   - You think we would have learned

00:04:24   and redesign of the home app.

00:04:26   Yep, that happened.

00:04:28   All right, so in that group,

00:04:30   the scores are four to three in your favor.

00:04:34   macOS and Mac hardware picks.

00:04:36   I chose-

00:04:37   - This is a bad one.

00:04:38   - That was a bloodbath.

00:04:39   At least one feature will be stated

00:04:40   as being Apple Silicon only.

00:04:42   Nope, not on the matter.

00:04:45   - There are features like this again,

00:04:46   as these things trickle out afterwards.

00:04:49   There is some stuff,

00:04:50   I think it might be live text related, I could check but--

00:04:52   - But I don't think they mentioned any of it in the keynote

00:04:54   because why would you say something negative in the keynote?

00:04:56   It's a keynote.

00:04:58   New MacBook Air announced, I think I got that one, Myke.

00:05:00   I think I got it. - I think you sure did.

00:05:01   - Shortcuts for Mac improvements specifically highlighted.

00:05:03   Nope.

00:05:05   New way to access widgets on Mac OS.

00:05:08   No, this is you now.

00:05:10   These are your picks.

00:05:11   New Mac Pro.

00:05:12   I missed that if that happened.

00:05:13   I don't think that happened.

00:05:15   And redesign of system preferences.

00:05:16   Yes, but not in the keynote, apparently.

00:05:21   But word has reached these shores

00:05:22   from the state of the union that that did happen.

00:05:24   - Oh wait, the system preferences thing.

00:05:26   It was in the keynote.

00:05:27   It was on one of the big blurb slide things.

00:05:30   - Oh, I was sitting way back and sitting.

00:05:33   So you're gonna claim that?

00:05:35   It was there, I can promise you that.

00:05:37   - Okay.

00:05:38   - It was like it said, I think it said,

00:05:41   it wasn't called system preferences, I think,

00:05:44   but it was like it had a little screenshot

00:05:47   and it was like system wide settings

00:05:49   or whatever, system preferences or something.

00:05:51   So it was in the keynote.

00:05:53   - What did they do to it?

00:05:55   - It's got a redesign.

00:05:56   It looks like iOS now.

00:05:57   - Oh, interesting.

00:06:00   Yeah, I haven't seen that.

00:06:01   - So with the whole like the navigation on the left side

00:06:04   and then all of the settings.

00:06:05   So it looks like the iPad settings.

00:06:08   - We have witnesses who say what's in the slide.

00:06:09   Okay, well then this is gonna go your way.

00:06:10   - My fortunes might be changing.

00:06:12   My fortunes might be changing.

00:06:13   This is great news.

00:06:15   - Yeah, you feel better all of a sudden.

00:06:16   - I feel like a new man already.

00:06:19   - Okay, other picks.

00:06:20   Here's what I've chose.

00:06:21   Craig Federighi appears, easy.

00:06:23   Old watch faces upgraded, yes.

00:06:25   - Jason, I have incredible news for you on this.

00:06:28   Utility will now feature rich complications.

00:06:33   - I know, that's exactly what I asked for.

00:06:35   - It's just what you asked for,

00:06:36   and they did it for you, Jason.

00:06:37   - They did it, they did it.

00:06:38   New health focused app in watchOS, yes indeed.

00:06:41   - I'm very excited about that.

00:06:42   - There he is.

00:06:43   Inside view of the Steve Jobs theater

00:06:45   with wacky special effects, no way.

00:06:48   - Did they look inside of the Steve Jobs theater,

00:06:50   you know what I mean?

00:06:51   Let's put him on a fake lift and we'll send him down.

00:06:55   And they're like, oh, you liked him catching an iPad?

00:06:57   Now he's gonna catch an iPhone.

00:06:59   Craig can catch anything.

00:07:00   TV app redesigned on TV OS.

00:07:04   - What's TV OS?

00:07:05   I never heard of it.

00:07:06   - I don't know either.

00:07:08   All right, you picked.

00:07:09   Some portion of the program is live.

00:07:11   - No, it wasn't. - Nope.

00:07:12   - This was a huge surprise to me.

00:07:15   We'll talk about this in a little bit,

00:07:16   but I was very surprised about that.

00:07:18   - New watch faces, yes, always.

00:07:22   Tim Cook presents in front of an audience.

00:07:23   Now, people are gonna say, well,

00:07:25   Tim Cook did go and say good morning

00:07:27   to the crowd at Apple Park.

00:07:28   - Good morning. - In advance of it.

00:07:30   He said it twice.

00:07:31   He said, "Good morning, good morning."

00:07:32   He did.

00:07:33   And then Craig came out and also said, "Good morning."

00:07:35   - Good morning.

00:07:36   - However, it was not on the live stream.

00:07:37   If they'd put it on the live stream,

00:07:38   this would have counted, but it doesn't count

00:07:40   'cause it wasn't in the keynote.

00:07:41   It was in his pre-keynote remarks

00:07:45   to a small gathering instead.

00:07:47   So it doesn't count.

00:07:48   - I checked this with you after the thing.

00:07:51   'Cause I was like, for me, I could go either way on it,

00:07:54   but I wanted to see what you thought.

00:07:56   - And I did consult with Steven Hackett

00:07:57   and he said that he agreed.

00:07:59   If it didn't stream out, then it doesn't count.

00:08:01   - And I don't disagree with you, right?

00:08:03   - Yeah, you don't need to now.

00:08:04   - If we were there together, then it's like,

00:08:06   we know that if we're looking at this kind of like

00:08:10   big brain of like, well, the keynote that we perceived,

00:08:13   you know, but obviously I didn't see it,

00:08:16   so I can't really make that argument.

00:08:18   - Not really.

00:08:19   No AR or VR hardware announced or pre-announced,

00:08:22   you nailed it, the buzzkill pic, good job.

00:08:25   New way to access favorite apps in watchOS.

00:08:28   They said that-- - Pinning.

00:08:31   This is exactly what I wanted.

00:08:32   It's a combination of the two features.

00:08:34   'Cause on watchOS right now,

00:08:35   you can either have favorites or recents.

00:08:38   - Yeah.

00:08:39   - But what they've given is what I wanted,

00:08:40   which is recents with some apps

00:08:43   that you can pin in that view.

00:08:45   - Yeah, and they did specifically say in the keynote

00:08:48   about how there was a new way to put the most common apps

00:08:51   or the running apps at the top of the list.

00:08:53   And so that alone was enough.

00:08:55   It blew right past my brain,

00:08:57   but it was like, okay, that does count.

00:08:58   They did say that.

00:08:59   We didn't get the name right, it's Ventura.

00:09:02   - What a great name though.

00:09:04   - I consider, so I considered Ventura

00:09:05   and this is a case where I knew too much about California

00:09:07   because Ventura is a great name for an operating system

00:09:10   and not that nice a place, but that's okay.

00:09:12   Sorry, apologies to Ventura.

00:09:14   - I can't get Jesse "The Bloody" Ventura out my head.

00:09:17   - Okay.

00:09:17   - Mackie "The Bloody" Ventura, that's where I am.

00:09:20   - Well, because of that, Myke, you win the draft

00:09:24   'cause it's the under. - Oh my God.

00:09:25   So you win an 8-8 on a tie break.

00:09:27   - Jason, this is the best gift you could have given me today.

00:09:31   You know, I've had a terrible day.

00:09:32   - It's all worth it.

00:09:34   - I wouldn't say that.

00:09:35   Wouldn't say it's all worth it.

00:09:38   But this has put me in a very good mood now, you know?

00:09:41   I'm very happy about that.

00:09:42   Wow, look at me.

00:09:43   - I'm gonna have to flip over my pennant.

00:09:46   - The curse is broken.

00:09:49   - This was always your strongest event.

00:09:51   - Yeah, WWDC is where I shine, you know?

00:09:54   - You do.

00:09:55   - And I did it.

00:09:56   Oh man, that's so good.

00:09:57   I will raise my own hand in victory.

00:10:00   - Mm-hmm, I see it.

00:10:01   - So Jason, you were at Apple Park today.

00:10:04   - Yes.

00:10:05   - What was going on?

00:10:06   There was lots, the pictures were interesting.

00:10:08   It looked surprising to me, like where you were

00:10:11   and how it was set up.

00:10:12   What was the vibe?

00:10:14   Give me a vibe check.

00:10:15   - Yeah, so having not done this before,

00:10:18   none of us really knew what to expect.

00:10:20   And, so I've been to the Steve Jobs Theater

00:10:24   a bunch of times for events and even for product briefings

00:10:27   when there weren't events.

00:10:28   And there's a way you do that,

00:10:32   which is you park under the Apple store

00:10:35   and then you come over to the visitor's center

00:10:37   and they let you in and you go to the left, up the hill,

00:10:40   to the Steve Jobs Theater.

00:10:41   That's how it's done.

00:10:42   And today we parked at the developer's center.

00:10:46   We walked in through that same entryway,

00:10:50   the Tantao Entrance Welcome Center, whatever it is.

00:10:53   - Does that mean anything, Tan Tao?

00:10:56   'Cause I always think of, what are they in Star Wars?

00:10:58   Is it Taunt?

00:10:59   - Tauntauns? - Tauntauns.

00:11:01   That's how I read it, is like Tauntaun Avenue.

00:11:04   I'm like, oh man, gotta climb in there when you're cold.

00:11:06   - I imagine it's like a guy who they named a street after

00:11:09   who was down here when it was all like orchards or something

00:11:14   and they just named it after old man Tan Tao.

00:11:16   So this time you go through there and you go right.

00:11:23   Like, whoa, I haven't been to the right before.

00:11:26   - What happens over there?

00:11:27   - You know what's the right, Myke?

00:11:28   To the right is the actual ring at Apple Park.

00:11:33   And I've never been anywhere near that before.

00:11:35   So that was really different.

00:11:36   We're all just kind of headed over there.

00:11:38   They took the media up to like the second floor

00:11:41   above Cafe Max and we hung out there for a couple of hours

00:11:44   'cause we got in at like 8 a.m.

00:11:46   and the show was at 10.

00:11:47   - If you don't mind me jumping in for a second

00:11:49   'cause obviously people can't,

00:11:50   but hey, Jason's been there before.

00:11:52   Steve Jobs Theater is not inside the ring

00:11:55   or even that close to it, right?

00:11:57   - No, it's in the super block that Apple Park is in.

00:12:00   Like this building, the developer center we're in right now

00:12:03   is across Tantow Avenue from the super block

00:12:06   where all that stuff is.

00:12:08   It's right next, it's actually right across the street

00:12:09   from the visitor center.

00:12:12   So Steve Jobs Theater is in that super block,

00:12:15   but again, it is separate.

00:12:16   It is in the, whatever that is,

00:12:18   southeast corner of the campus.

00:12:22   So you go through that entryway on Tantau,

00:12:24   and then if you go right, you go to the ring.

00:12:27   If you go left, you go up the hill

00:12:29   to the Steve Jobs Theater.

00:12:30   So they're separate from each other.

00:12:32   And you can see the ring building off in the distance

00:12:35   from the Steve Jobs Theater, but it's off in the distance.

00:12:37   It's an intentional design to bring the public

00:12:41   over to this space for public events

00:12:43   and not have them be in Apple Park.

00:12:46   And I think that COVID probably had,

00:12:50   My guess, just, we were thinking about this

00:12:54   while we were sitting there this morning,

00:12:56   is that there was probably even some debate

00:12:58   and discussion within Apple about like,

00:13:00   would the ring be something that would ever be sort of used

00:13:04   in public events or would it not be?

00:13:06   And it could be, but I was,

00:13:09   I'm not sure I believed it ever would be,

00:13:11   but things, you know, things have changed.

00:13:14   - There was no purpose for it.

00:13:15   Like, they built a whole theater,

00:13:16   like there's no reason to ever have had non-Apple employees

00:13:20   in the building.

00:13:21   - Exactly.

00:13:22   - And again, now they have the developer center, right?

00:13:25   Even, you know, 'cause I was talking to David Smith,

00:13:29   I traveled to David Smith.

00:13:30   Luckily we were all masked the entire time,

00:13:34   just as a note.

00:13:35   I just should say as well, my wife Adina's with me,

00:13:39   and she's negative, which is great.

00:13:41   It's making things complicated here,

00:13:43   'cause we're wearing masks constantly, even sleeping,

00:13:46   which is real hard in an FFP2 mask,

00:13:49   but we're making it work.

00:13:50   But I'm blessed to have her here

00:13:52   'cause I would be completely lost right now.

00:13:54   But anyway, I traveled with David

00:13:56   and we were talking about the developer center.

00:13:58   One of the great things about the developer center

00:14:02   and that it exists is that people can go to Apple Park

00:14:06   and have meetings now, right?

00:14:08   Because previously there was no way to do that.

00:14:12   And it's like the same for me and you.

00:14:13   Like if we had a friend at Apple

00:14:15   or whatever and wanted to go have a lunch,

00:14:16   they can't take us in there.

00:14:18   Like it's not a thing that happens.

00:14:20   I understand why, right?

00:14:21   And so like that's what they have all the,

00:14:23   they have the visitor center outside,

00:14:24   the developer center.

00:14:26   So you think why would they ever let anybody

00:14:28   inside the ring?

00:14:28   And they have done that, but that is a big surprise

00:14:31   to everyone who cares about this stuff I think.

00:14:34   - Yeah, so the, right now what I would say though is

00:14:37   things have changed.

00:14:40   They did this event.

00:14:41   They brought in, there were a lot of people there.

00:14:43   They brought in a lot of developers,

00:14:44   and there were people from Apple,

00:14:46   and there was a lot of media there.

00:14:47   sort of the usual media crowd,

00:14:49   it was really quite remarkable.

00:14:50   It was a lot of familiar faces.

00:14:52   It was a throwback to 2019, essentially.

00:14:55   And the way they set it up is they opened basically

00:14:58   all of the sliding doors at all at Cafe Max,

00:15:02   but the event actually sort of faced out from Cafe Max

00:15:05   to a kind of a lawn on the outside.

00:15:06   So we weren't inside the ring when the event was going on,

00:15:10   and they had like essentially like a jumbotron.

00:15:12   So I was concerned, we talked about like seeing the video

00:15:16   in bright sunlight and all that,

00:15:17   but it was like a jumbotron kind of a scoreboard thing

00:15:20   you'd see at a sporting event

00:15:22   where the light is not a problem,

00:15:23   it's a very bright screen.

00:15:25   And so that was the venue.

00:15:27   I will say, I look at this event and think to myself,

00:15:32   I don't know why Apple would ever do anything

00:15:33   other than this ever again for the developer conference

00:15:37   because you can get a...

00:15:38   First off--

00:15:39   - It looked like there was a lot of people there too, Jason.

00:15:41   - There were a lot of people there,

00:15:42   but even if it was-- - It looked like hundreds

00:15:43   and hundreds of people there.

00:15:45   - Even if it's fewer,

00:15:46   Even if it's a lot fewer than would go to San Jose,

00:15:49   what I would say is it's the difference

00:15:52   between 99.99% of Apple developers don't go

00:15:56   and 99.999%, like nobody goes.

00:16:00   It's an exclusionary thing.

00:16:01   People are watching online.

00:16:02   And the livestream of the keynote

00:16:05   and the State of the Union and then all of the sessions

00:16:07   is such a great way to do it.

00:16:09   It's great for everybody.

00:16:10   So I don't think there's that much of a difference,

00:16:13   but it does allow people to come

00:16:15   and it does allow them to have this.

00:16:16   And the big thing is that Apple gets to do it

00:16:19   on their terms in their space that they own

00:16:22   in the way they want.

00:16:23   And rather than having to deal with

00:16:26   San Jose Convention Center and their caterer

00:16:29   and their unions who are doing the trucking

00:16:31   and all those things, it's like,

00:16:33   they don't have to do any of that.

00:16:34   They've got their own facilities

00:16:36   and they've proven that they can do it.

00:16:37   So I would actually be surprised

00:16:40   if this is not the model going forward,

00:16:42   which is a short one, two,

00:16:44   maybe an extra day spillover event that happens.

00:16:47   It's really about the keynote.

00:16:49   It's about getting some developers

00:16:51   into the developer center and to see the keynote

00:16:53   and to talk to people,

00:16:54   but that everybody else experiences it online.

00:16:57   And in fact, if I had to make a prediction

00:16:59   and COVID makes this, it's difficult to make predictions.

00:17:02   I would say that the ultimate form of this

00:17:04   is probably that we're all back in the Steve Jobs Theater.

00:17:06   - Right, okay.

00:17:07   So the media may be in the Steve Jobs Theater,

00:17:10   'cause this was a question we had before,

00:17:12   like would they split it up?

00:17:13   Which really they could have today, right?

00:17:15   'Cause there wasn't actually a focal point.

00:17:17   - They could have.

00:17:18   - We were wondering.

00:17:19   - But that theater has a lot of people,

00:17:21   will fit a lot of people in it.

00:17:22   But regardless, I think it was a good event and a good venue

00:17:25   and the only thing that surprised me

00:17:28   was that there was no live component

00:17:30   and I have two thoughts about that.

00:17:31   One of which is streaming things live is really hard

00:17:35   and preloading things onto a CDN is a good way to do it

00:17:38   and you can't do that if it's live.

00:17:40   And the second point is COVID, right?

00:17:43   Which is if you make the presentation in such a way

00:17:47   that you're intending for it to be used

00:17:49   with a live component

00:17:51   and you have to cancel the live component,

00:17:52   you have to then go back

00:17:54   and make a different version of it or whatever.

00:17:56   So better to not, right?

00:17:58   Better to not.

00:17:59   And instead we got, you know,

00:18:00   Tim and Craig came out in front of the screen at 8.50

00:18:05   or no, sorry, 9.50 and said, "Good morning, good morning.

00:18:08   It's great to be here."

00:18:09   and they like, and it was literally like,

00:18:11   and presenting me, it was like going to a premiere

00:18:14   where the stars of the show come out beforehand

00:18:16   to say, look, we enjoy our movie.

00:18:18   And then they're out of there.

00:18:20   So I don't know, it feels like a model

00:18:23   for their future events.

00:18:24   - This seems to have gone so well.

00:18:26   Even sitting on the outside,

00:18:29   I could kind of see how well it was all going.

00:18:32   I think you're bang on.

00:18:34   They can maybe expand it out in different ways.

00:18:37   - Sure.

00:18:38   do more in person parts.

00:18:40   I could imagine a situation where they do like

00:18:42   what they did today and they have developers come

00:18:44   and they set up Cafe Max like that.

00:18:46   'Cause it seemed like it was very well,

00:18:48   not purpose made for it, but like they were able

00:18:50   to really easily, it seems, fit everything in there.

00:18:54   - Yeah, I think, and I know it's an effort

00:18:58   and they have to bring in lots of people

00:18:59   to do crowd control and all that,

00:19:00   but the fact is, you have to do all of that anyway

00:19:03   at a big event, but I think just my read on it is

00:19:07   that Apple would prefer.

00:19:09   I mean, it's their turf.

00:19:10   It's their everything, the food they serve,

00:19:13   the drinks they serve, like everything just gets to be

00:19:15   using the stuff that Apple does,

00:19:18   instead of it being dealing with, you know,

00:19:20   whatever bureaucracy is in San Jose or San Francisco

00:19:24   or anywhere else that you have to work with

00:19:28   and get judged by, right?

00:19:29   Then you want the event to be perfect

00:19:31   and there's something about it that you don't like

00:19:32   that you can't control.

00:19:33   I mean, ATP always talks about the box lunches

00:19:37   at Moscone, right?

00:19:38   And it's like, well, whatever vendor was mandated to run,

00:19:43   you got the contract from Moscone Center,

00:19:46   they were the ones who did that and they set the price

00:19:48   and Apple did not have much of a choice there.

00:19:51   And so here Apple gets to have much more control over it.

00:19:54   So I think it was a very positive experience.

00:19:57   It was very much a one day event kind of experience.

00:20:01   It was like going to any other Apple media event,

00:20:03   except we sat outside and watched a video

00:20:05   instead of going into the theater

00:20:07   and watching people on stage.

00:20:08   But it did feel like a model.

00:20:11   And it did still have that kind of festival vibe

00:20:13   that a WWDC keynote has that a media event doesn't

00:20:17   because the developers are there

00:20:18   and they're legitimately excited.

00:20:20   Whereas at a media event, what you get is,

00:20:22   you get the media, most of whom are not supposed

00:20:25   to be cheering and stuff.

00:20:27   And so you also then have sort of your VIP invited guest

00:20:31   and Apple employee people who are making the noise

00:20:33   because you really do wanna have it sound like a

00:20:36   full theater with people cheering and stuff.

00:20:38   And with the developers, the energy is totally different

00:20:41   and you don't need to worry about it.

00:20:42   They will cheer.

00:20:44   Although I will admit that when they announced

00:20:46   external display support for the iPad,

00:20:47   I did throw up my arms like I was a referee

00:20:49   signaling a touchdown at a football game.

00:20:52   But otherwise I was fairly restrained.

00:20:54   - This episode is brought to you in part by our friends

00:20:57   over at Sourcegraph.

00:20:58   So you've hired a brilliant developer.

00:21:00   That's great, but now you have to get them onboarded.

00:21:03   If your company is growing, onboarding new developers

00:21:05   will be a common occurrence, but it is a huge undertaking

00:21:08   every time.

00:21:09   One of the biggest challenges for new hires

00:21:11   is to get up to speed with projects

00:21:13   that they're working on, that the whole team is

00:21:15   on that they're joining.

00:21:16   This can be really tricky if the code bases

00:21:18   that your developers are working in are already large.

00:21:21   Thankfully, Sourcegraph makes it easy to move fast, even

00:21:24   in those big code bases.

00:21:26   Developers know that knowledge is most useful

00:21:28   when it's findable.

00:21:29   Centralization is helpful, but given the fact

00:21:31   that most companies store knowledge

00:21:33   in at least two different locations,

00:21:35   how do you make knowledge accessible to those

00:21:37   that need it?

00:21:37   As a code intelligence platform, Sourcegraph

00:21:40   gives developers what they need to drive their own learning

00:21:42   over time and in different situations.

00:21:44   Teams about Sourcegraph need to rely on asking colleagues

00:21:47   or reviewing out-of-date documentation, which is

00:21:50   cumbersome and time-consuming.

00:21:52   But with Sourcegraph, every developer

00:21:54   can search across millions of repositories

00:21:56   to find specific code, saving time for themselves,

00:21:59   and everyone else.

00:22:00   So when questions do come up, you

00:22:02   know it's the big stuff that's worthy of your extra time.

00:22:05   Sourcegraph was created to make developers' lives easier.

00:22:09   And today, they work with leading companies

00:22:11   across every industry, including three out of the five top tech

00:22:14   companies, plus PayPal, Uber, Plaid, GE, Reddit, Atlassian,

00:22:18   and many more.

00:22:19   Visit about.sourcegraph.com to learn more today.

00:22:22   That's about.sourcegraph.com to find out

00:22:25   why some of the biggest tech companies in the world use Sourcegraph and to see what

00:22:29   it can do for yours. Or just click the link in the show notes and they will know that

00:22:33   you heard about them from this show. Our thanks to Sourcegraph for the support of this show

00:22:36   and Relay FM. So there's actually way more than we could ever expect to get to today.

00:22:44   Like we're not going to be able to cover everything that was announced at WWDC. We're going to

00:22:48   cover the large platforms right and we'll pick some of the things that we think are

00:22:51   the most important, but I expect we'll be picking this apart over the next couple of

00:22:55   episodes, especially as things continue to come out as they always do. Should we start

00:23:00   with iOS? It seemed like this was, got the most time, it felt like, at least.

00:23:06   Yeah, and it is a continuation from last year where a lot of it is just the decision of

00:23:11   how you'd choose to tell the story because there were things in the Mac section and in

00:23:16   the iPad section that were features that were revealed to be, and this is also of course

00:23:20   on all on the other platforms too so it's really just sort of how do you how

00:23:24   do you pick it out and what do you try to focus on and iOS is the biggest

00:23:29   platform so in many ways it makes sense to start with it and to reveal a bunch

00:23:33   of the features there. So obviously I think the biggest one is the one that

00:23:39   was I think maybe the one we spoke about the most in the previous episode from

00:23:44   the sheriff's leaks which was the lock screen and really it feels like the lock

00:23:50   screen is getting a pretty huge makeover in a way I think that makes it incredibly obvious

00:23:55   that the next iPhone has an always-on display, right? Like, just the amount of effort that

00:24:00   has gone into the lock screen feels like it's maybe setting the stage for something, as

00:24:06   well as it is just making it better, you know what I mean?

00:24:09   Yeah, it certainly makes it, um, it increases the value of that space, which means if you

00:24:14   were to have a phone that could stay on,

00:24:18   it would be able to, you know, display information

00:24:21   that would be valuable in some ways.

00:24:23   I was struck by -- I think it's funny.

00:24:26   You know, we talk a lot about the Apple reusing stuff

00:24:29   in different places.

00:24:30   I was really struck by how this is watch faces, essentially.

00:24:34   -Yes, incredible, right? -The inspiration for this feature

00:24:37   is coming from the implementation of watch faces

00:24:40   on watchOS, not just in the sense that you've got your,

00:24:43   sort of tap and hold and then swipe between different watch faces, which is very much

00:24:48   like the watch face editing interface, but also that you've got essentially complications

00:24:53   that you can put in, and that you've got then the, you know, tap in the various little bordered

00:24:58   areas to do customization in terms of what goes where.

00:25:03   That's all very familiar for anybody who's used watchOS.

00:25:07   Watch face, right?

00:25:08   Sure.

00:25:09   the kind of vibe with the time going behind a subject in an image.

00:25:14   Same thing as on the watch. So that was notable. Also my immediate thought, and by the way,

00:25:21   as they were going through all the different colors and fonts, I looked over it at _DavidSmith

00:25:27   who was absolutely laughing and bouncing up and down because it looks so much like what

00:25:34   he has been playing with with WidgetSmith for two years. But it strikes me, and I know

00:25:39   we've talked about it before, that the way the operating system cycle often works is

00:25:44   by the time everybody has gathered all the anecdotes and all of the buzz about the first

00:25:53   few months of an OS release being out there and what do people love and what do people

00:25:57   not love, people are already working on what the next OS rev is going to be. And as a result,

00:26:03   You get a lot of situations where there's a two-year cycle that happens because everybody

00:26:09   making their aesthetic AF home screens two years ago, by the time that really hits, it

00:26:19   may be harder to find a way to fit in iOS 15 a bunch of customization features to ride

00:26:26   that wave.

00:26:27   And so instead it sort of gets bookmarked as like, "Okay, let's do this in the next

00:26:32   And we see that there are a lot of things that seem to go into your cycles.

00:26:37   And it's very clear to me that this is something that got, I don't want to say like this happened

00:26:43   because of that, because there's lots of other things there including possibly like justifying

00:26:47   it because they want to have an iPhone that has the screen on all the time.

00:26:51   There's lots of things there.

00:26:52   But it strikes me that one of the things that was motivating this feature to get prioritized

00:26:56   is the response to all of the widgets

00:27:00   and all of personal customization on iPhones two years ago.

00:27:04   Like this is what we talked about back then,

00:27:07   back two years ago about how Apple should get this signal

00:27:11   that people really wanna customize

00:27:13   and personalize their iPhones.

00:27:16   And here it is, not only here,

00:27:20   but because it's interconnected to focus modes,

00:27:26   you're changing the watch face or the lock screen,

00:27:28   I call it a watch face, sure.

00:27:29   You're changing the lock screen can change your home screen

00:27:33   because it changes your focus mode.

00:27:36   So there's lots going on here, but I think it looks fun

00:27:40   and there will be lots of horrible lock screens,

00:27:42   but that's okay.

00:27:43   That's part of the price you pay for customization

00:27:46   and I love it.

00:27:47   And wallpapers too, all sorts of wild wallpaper things

00:27:52   and like themes where you pick emoji

00:27:55   and it does a pattern with them and colors and--

00:27:57   - And there was that thing, we were talking about it, right?

00:28:00   That like what Mark Gumman reported didn't seem right

00:28:02   in that like, there are some lock screens

00:28:05   that are like weather lock screens

00:28:07   and it just shows the weather, right?

00:28:08   - Right. - But that's a choice

00:28:10   that you can make, it's not like the only thing.

00:28:12   You can use your own imagery.

00:28:14   And I'm intrigued to see like, I don't know about,

00:28:17   it's like will people be able to like make images

00:28:20   that are like this, you know,

00:28:21   like where the time can go behind them?

00:28:22   Like, could I make in Photoshop something and put some data in

00:28:26   and make it available?

00:28:27   I don't know, right?

00:28:28   I don't know.

00:28:29   I don't know if we mentioned it, but the widgets

00:28:33   on the home screen, they literally are complications.

00:28:36   Like, it's been confirmed it's the same code.

00:28:39   So apps that have watch components,

00:28:42   you'll be able to put this information in there.

00:28:45   I don't know right now if you can do anything special

00:28:48   specifically for the lock screen stuff,

00:28:51   but it's possible to actually have this available.

00:28:55   Like, you know, if you have a Apple Watch complication,

00:28:59   you can add it to this little area, and it's fantastic.

00:29:02   Like, I love it. I think it's great.

00:29:04   -This is such a good example of Apple,

00:29:06   because the -- just think about it.

00:29:09   Who does big consumer operating systems?

00:29:11   And there's, like, Microsoft has Windows,

00:29:13   and Google has Android.

00:29:14   Apple has iOS, macOS, iPadOS, TVOS, WatchOS,

00:29:19   maybe other OSes to come, right?

00:29:21   The only way it can maintain all of those

00:29:23   is by trying to create this fairly common platform,

00:29:27   giving developers tools that can be reused,

00:29:29   tools it can reuse itself.

00:29:31   Like this is how Apple is capable

00:29:33   of maintaining all of this stuff.

00:29:35   So when you see something like complications

00:29:37   being on the iPhone home screen, it's like, well, yeah.

00:29:40   Why would you invent a new thing

00:29:41   that does exactly what the other thing does?

00:29:43   Widgets is the same way, right?

00:29:45   Like widgets, if Apple makes that rumor

00:29:48   about like a HomePod with a screen, right?

00:29:52   Like I'll eat my hat, I won't actually,

00:29:54   but just as a point of phrase,

00:29:56   if it doesn't do things like reuse widgets,

00:29:58   'cause why would you build a new thing

00:30:01   to have ambient information

00:30:02   when you've already built the thing

00:30:04   and it's called widgets or it's called complications?

00:30:06   So it makes a lot of sense for these things to be reused

00:30:09   and I'm glad that they are reusing them

00:30:10   because no developer wants to say,

00:30:12   "Wait a second, you built a different thing

00:30:13   "that's just like complications but isn't?

00:30:15   "So I have to do all new work?"

00:30:17   Like, no, you don't.

00:30:19   We already did this and we've had it for several years

00:30:21   and everybody understands how it works

00:30:23   and here it is on the lock screen.

00:30:25   - We didn't get interactive widgets.

00:30:28   What we did get is something that's halfway

00:30:30   between a notification and a widget

00:30:32   and they're called live activities.

00:30:35   - Live activities.

00:30:36   - And they were shown off as like,

00:30:37   "Hey, sports, there's some sports going on, you know,

00:30:40   and you want the scores of the sports?

00:30:42   Well, here's the notification."

00:30:44   Instead of getting like 20 notifications

00:30:46   of everything happening on the sports,

00:30:48   you can just get one notification

00:30:50   and it will update over time.

00:30:52   - Well, so like the MLB app,

00:30:54   and in another era,

00:30:57   they probably would have been on stage to demo this,

00:31:00   but in the MLB app, one of the things you can do is say,

00:31:03   for my favorite team, notify me when the score changes.

00:31:06   - Right.

00:31:07   - And that means that every time anybody scores

00:31:09   in a baseball game, you get a separate push notification.

00:31:12   When what you really want is put the score

00:31:15   of the Giants game on my notification screen, right?

00:31:18   Like that's what you really want,

00:31:20   but since that wasn't available,

00:31:21   they're just pushing out a notification

00:31:24   every time somebody crosses home plate.

00:31:25   And so with live events, or live activities, stuff like that,

00:31:30   and there's probably lots of other data classes

00:31:32   that are like this, where you're really just monitoring

00:31:34   an event on your home screen, or on your lock screen,

00:31:38   you're not, it's not about notifications,

00:31:41   it's about monitoring the status of something.

00:31:45   So this is a great example of thinking about this

00:31:50   and looking at how people use and abuse notification center

00:31:53   and push notifications and say,

00:31:55   all right, we need to give them something

00:31:57   so they stop doing this 'cause nobody is happy here.

00:32:00   The apps aren't happy

00:32:01   that they're sending all those notifications.

00:32:02   The users aren't happy that they're getting them.

00:32:04   We're not happy that the notification center is full of junk.

00:32:07   Let's build something to solve this.

00:32:09   And that looks like what Live Activities is.

00:32:12   - Myke was in the Discord.

00:32:13   We stream live, we stream in this on live.

00:32:15   You can always check it out, relay.fm/live

00:32:18   if you're a Relay FM member,

00:32:20   especially if it's what upgrade plus,

00:32:21   you get access to our Discord, not especially, including,

00:32:24   but I'm just saying especially.

00:32:25   I've got a COVID brain, what do you want from me?

00:32:27   This is gonna be my excuse maybe for the next two weeks

00:32:30   or something, COVID brain, what do you want from me?

00:32:32   Myke says this would be cool for flights,

00:32:34   and I agree with that.

00:32:35   So like I use Flighty, I love Flighty.

00:32:36   - Oh, I love Flighty.

00:32:37   - But Flighty sends so many notifications.

00:32:39   - So many notifications.

00:32:40   - So many, and I want them.

00:32:42   - You can turn stuff off,

00:32:44   but it's just a lot of notifications, right?

00:32:47   And I would love one little live activity,

00:32:50   just gives me the information I need it when I need it.

00:32:52   - Right, 'cause like, hey Myke, it's at a different gate.

00:32:54   Hey Myke, it's gonna be one minute late.

00:32:56   - Did you know Jason, the flight plan has been filed?

00:32:58   - Hey Myke, it's gonna be one minute late again.

00:33:01   - I love the information.

00:33:02   - They brought the flight plan.

00:33:03   - It's just a lot of it.

00:33:04   - Oh, the equipment changed,

00:33:05   it's a slightly different flight,

00:33:06   I've updated the flight number.

00:33:07   Like, okay, you know, again, Flighty is amazing.

00:33:11   It really is amazing.

00:33:12   I love it a lot.

00:33:13   It's so friggin good.

00:33:14   But that's a great example that is not sports related of I just want the live information

00:33:20   about my flight, not 80 notifications about what's going on with my flight.

00:33:25   Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

00:33:27   The Lux screen.

00:33:28   That could be a good one.

00:33:29   Actually, you know, we were saying, you were saying about like with the Lux screen stuff,

00:33:32   you know, oh, this is building on from work a couple of years ago.

00:33:35   But something that has received year over year work is focus modes.

00:33:40   the lock screen stuff has been tied in together.

00:33:42   So in a way that different focus modes can set different home screens,

00:33:46   it can also set different lock screens, which is great.

00:33:49   And there were two features that we got.

00:33:51   One was my dream feature for focus modes, which is a vastly streamlined

00:33:56   setup process, which now gives you the option of everything opt in or

00:34:00   everything opt out, like just from the beginning.

00:34:03   So at the moment with focus modes, you have to say everything that you want to

00:34:08   to be added into that focus mode, right?

00:34:10   But now with focus modes, you can say,

00:34:13   hey, just remove these five apps from this focus mode.

00:34:16   So I think that's fantastic.

00:34:17   And also there's a thing called focus filters.

00:34:20   So if you're in a focus mode inside of applications,

00:34:23   it can give you different info.

00:34:25   So it showed like, for example, in messages,

00:34:27   if you're in a work focus,

00:34:28   you won't see any personal messages,

00:34:30   you just see your work related messages.

00:34:32   I don't know exactly how you tell messages,

00:34:35   what the work related messages are,

00:34:36   but I'm sure there's a way.

00:34:38   But the best thing about this,

00:34:39   and this is what I was hoping for,

00:34:40   but I didn't think I would get this soon,

00:34:42   is some APIs for focus modes.

00:34:45   So developers can build these focus filters

00:34:47   into their applications.

00:34:48   So for example, let's imagine Slack,

00:34:51   like Slack would add anything,

00:34:53   but let's imagine Slack, you know,

00:34:55   you could say like when I'm in this focus mode,

00:34:58   I only see this Slack, you know what I mean?

00:34:59   So I think that this is awesome.

00:35:01   Or email, right?

00:35:02   Like if I'm in work focus, I see my work email,

00:35:06   If I'm in personal focus, I see my personal email.

00:35:08   Stuff like that, man, I'm so excited

00:35:12   for these things to be added.

00:35:13   These are excellent, excellent additions

00:35:16   to a already pretty good system.

00:35:19   And I'm very, I mean, I haven't spoken to Gray yet,

00:35:21   but I can't wait to talk to Gray

00:35:23   and see what he thinks about this.

00:35:24   I'm pretty sure he's gonna be pretty jazzed.

00:35:27   - Yeah, it's good to see, you know,

00:35:30   we've said it so many times, but it is not,

00:35:34   The most dispiriting thing about being excited

00:35:36   about a new OS feature is when you get excited

00:35:40   but see all the places it should go

00:35:43   and then a year or two pass and there's no changes.

00:35:46   You're like, well, wait a second, do they think it's done?

00:35:49   'Cause it was clear on day one that it needed to,

00:35:52   this was a good first try and there needed to be more.

00:35:54   And so for something like focus mode, it's actually,

00:35:56   and I wonder if some of that is either that it got traction

00:36:00   or that it's part of a bigger picture thing,

00:36:02   which I think if you look at the lock screen,

00:36:03   That may be what's really going on here

00:36:05   is this is part of a larger idea

00:36:08   where focus mode and customization and theming

00:36:13   and all of these things kind of can go together

00:36:16   in different ways where you're basically

00:36:18   setting different states of your device.

00:36:21   - I know for many years you have wanted

00:36:26   shared photo libraries.

00:36:28   - You know, there are these things

00:36:32   that we stopped talking about

00:36:34   because they're never gonna happen.

00:36:35   - There's a bunch of things in this keynote

00:36:37   that I was like,

00:36:38   we stopped talking about this a long time ago.

00:36:40   - They settled a lot of family business today.

00:36:41   Yeah, they did.

00:36:42   - When we talk about here are the things we didn't pick.

00:36:45   Like they're always in the list because we're like,

00:36:47   well, we picked these 20 times before.

00:36:49   - Exactly.

00:36:51   So this is where we get iCloud shared photo library.

00:36:54   And I talked to the photos team like five years ago

00:36:59   and said, "You know, families take pictures."

00:37:04   Like my wife has got her account and I've got my account

00:37:06   and we take pictures.

00:37:07   And we have to like every year have the ceremonial merging

00:37:11   of the importing of the photos from one person to the other.

00:37:14   And then with the kids it's like,

00:37:17   do you wanna share some photos or not?

00:37:19   And they said, "We understand the issues.

00:37:21   "The problem is how you solve it, how you implement it."

00:37:24   And I always felt like that was right.

00:37:28   It is complicated.

00:37:29   It's not as easy as just saying you turn it on

00:37:32   and everybody, every photo you take is shared

00:37:35   among your family, right?

00:37:36   'Cause you don't want that.

00:37:37   But so much time passed where they didn't address this

00:37:41   and it seems like such a fundamental issue.

00:37:43   So, you know, I laughed when the problem

00:37:48   was described on stage.

00:37:49   I think that was Craig.

00:37:51   And he was like, you know, sometimes different people

00:37:54   in a family take photos and they wanna share them.

00:37:56   I'm like, yes, Craig, yes, we know.

00:37:58   - Did you know about this?

00:37:59   - Did you know that this is the case?

00:38:01   So it was one of those,

00:38:03   it actually felt very infomercial like to me,

00:38:05   it's like, you know, sometimes I just can't cut this tomato

00:38:09   and it really bothers me, I need help.

00:38:10   It's like, here's a sharp knife.

00:38:12   Hey, thanks, that'll, right?

00:38:14   It's like, yes, we know the problem, what is your solution?

00:38:17   And the answer was iCloud shared photo library.

00:38:19   It's like a, it's another photo library

00:38:24   aside your user photo library.

00:38:27   and you can put things into it.

00:38:29   And what I like about it is it does address

00:38:31   all of those issues, which is you can choose

00:38:33   when to start from.

00:38:35   So you can say like, before this date,

00:38:37   where I didn't know we were doing this,

00:38:39   I'm not gonna share those photos.

00:38:41   You can choose what you share.

00:38:43   It's got some intelligent things like saying,

00:38:48   when I'm in the vicinity of the other people in my family,

00:38:51   those events will be shared.

00:38:53   You can do it that way.

00:38:54   You can add things to the library easily.

00:38:57   You can set them when you're taking the pictures.

00:38:59   You can set the status to whether it's shared or not.

00:39:03   Just a whole bunch of different ways to do it.

00:39:06   And I'm sure that there will be,

00:39:10   like it's complicated.

00:39:11   I'm sure there'll be some story at some point,

00:39:13   which is like some teenager took a selfie,

00:39:18   like a nude selfie and it went in the family photo library

00:39:20   and oh boy, they got in trouble, right?

00:39:23   That's gonna happen.

00:39:24   But the fact is, just the fundamental of parents,

00:39:29   couples who want to, who share their photo library,

00:39:35   except they are incapable of it, and being able to do it.

00:39:40   This is a great feature, I wish it had come five years ago.

00:39:44   I'm happy that they've done it,

00:39:45   and that they have taken care in doing it,

00:39:47   because I think just a blanket sharing is not good enough.

00:39:51   Or even a, when your face shows up.

00:39:54   That's one feature, but I think for some companies,

00:39:57   that's the solution is if we detect the photos of people,

00:40:00   we share that photo and it's like,

00:40:02   it needs to be more than that.

00:40:03   There needs to be more user control

00:40:04   and there needs to be more intelligence to it.

00:40:06   So I'm looking forward to checking this feature out,

00:40:09   but I'm even more than that looking forward

00:40:11   to no longer having the ceremonial emerging

00:40:15   of the photo libraries when we're making our calendars

00:40:18   at the end of the year.

00:40:19   - Messages got a bunch of stuff

00:40:23   And the first three features they said were like the most requested three features and every single one of them I cheered

00:40:29   Editing of messages. Sure. Amazing

00:40:33   Retracting of messages. Mm-hmm. Also amazing

00:40:37   Markers on red. Come on. Come on Craig. You're spoiling us

00:40:42   I have wanted a markers on red feature for a long time

00:40:46   Friends of the show Matt Bischoff wrote a great article about like a blog post about this once that it's been in my notes to

00:40:53   to talk about on the show for a while,

00:40:55   but I never got to it because honestly,

00:40:57   I didn't think there was going to be any speed needed.

00:41:02   - And there's the cultural issue, right,

00:41:04   of like if you're using read receipts or read receipts,

00:41:08   however that's pronounced, we debated that.

00:41:11   If you're using that feature and something is marked as read

00:41:14   sometimes you haven't read it

00:41:17   and you want to mark it as unread again.

00:41:19   I don't know, does it mark it as unread on the other end too?

00:41:21   - But I kinda don't care at the same time.

00:41:23   This is for me, right?

00:41:25   - This is like a email message, right?

00:41:27   It's the same thing.

00:41:28   It's like, no, I need to read this later.

00:41:29   I haven't read it now.

00:41:30   Don't mark, don't put the little dot next to it.

00:41:32   Or don't take the dot away, put the dot back,

00:41:35   and so you can put the dot back.

00:41:36   - Well, sometimes I accidentally open a message

00:41:38   when I just, you know, and I just wanted to say,

00:41:42   what is it, it's not 3D Touch, whatever it's called now,

00:41:44   Peek and Pop, I don't even remember what the name of it is.

00:41:45   - Yeah, I don't know.

00:41:46   - But I do that to messages,

00:41:47   and sometimes I accidentally then open the message,

00:41:50   and I wanna deal with it later on.

00:41:52   Yeah, I think this is just like a little thing,

00:41:54   but just awesome.

00:41:55   Also a great feature, I think,

00:41:57   'cause I was talking about this a bunch

00:41:59   on connected recently, we were talking about SharePlay.

00:42:01   'Cause I was convinced nobody was using SharePlay.

00:42:03   - Oh, yeah, yeah. - And I asked connected

00:42:05   listeners to write in and tell me

00:42:06   what they use SharePlay for.

00:42:07   And I got loads of people writing in.

00:42:09   But the big thing that I was saying is like,

00:42:11   so much of this stuff sounds great,

00:42:13   but I don't wanna have to be on a FaceTime call

00:42:15   with someone constantly.

00:42:16   So they added SharePlay to messages.

00:42:19   - To messages. - Yes.

00:42:20   - Genius, this should have been in the first version.

00:42:22   - Because maybe what we wanna do is watch a movie

00:42:25   with a friend and have a little text chat going on.

00:42:29   But I don't need to have voice or video,

00:42:31   I just have a little text chat.

00:42:32   - I just don't need it.

00:42:33   So this is superb.

00:42:35   Like this, for me, now I'm like,

00:42:37   "Hmm, I actually might use this feature now."

00:42:39   Because like, this is what I wanted.

00:42:41   Like, if me and Jason wanted to watch a movie together,

00:42:44   like say we do a mic at the movies, right?

00:42:46   Like wouldn't it be fun if we watched it together?

00:42:48   "Yes, but does Jason need to see me for two hours

00:42:50   "while I'm watching the movie?"

00:42:52   He doesn't need to do that. - Definitely not.

00:42:52   - That's not necessary.

00:42:54   Definitely not, right?

00:42:55   He's looking at me right now.

00:42:56   It's a sorry state, you know?

00:42:57   - This is unnecessary.

00:42:58   - He doesn't want this,

00:42:59   but he's got a video of me right now.

00:43:01   We hadn't mentioned this.

00:43:02   I can see Jason and he can see me.

00:43:04   My view is that's exciting.

00:43:06   - You've got some art,

00:43:08   some hotel room art on the wall behind you.

00:43:10   Looks kind of like a coronavirus, gotta be honest.

00:43:12   - I mean, this is how they know.

00:43:13   This is the mark on the wall that they put in.

00:43:15   - Oh, I see.

00:43:16   in there once you once you test positive. I'm wearing a dongle town t-shirt though so you know.

00:43:20   That's good. I like it you're flying the flag it's it's good. You know what we didn't get is uh

00:43:26   improvements to tap backs. No I was hoping it was going to be one of those things that people were

00:43:30   like hey it's in there but I haven't seen anybody talk about that. I wanted it. I'm glad they're

00:43:35   paying attention to messages I really am I just wanted there to be more uh tap back options.

00:43:40   Collaboration on documents in messages. I don't understand this feature yet like I feel like this

00:43:46   this is one of those things where I need to kind of

00:43:48   understand what this means, you know, that like--

00:43:49   - I don't know if anybody's gonna use this feature or not,

00:43:51   but it's an interesting idea.

00:43:52   The idea is that if you are collaborating using any of the

00:43:55   kind of ways you can do document collaboration,

00:43:58   like in Pages or Keynote or places like that, right?

00:44:02   And that's all, you've already got that concept in iCloud.

00:44:05   What this basically does is say you can tie a messages thread

00:44:13   to the participants in the document collaboration.

00:44:16   So it's kind of, think of it as this is the Google Docs chat.

00:44:20   I think it's kind of like that.

00:44:22   It's a way for you to tie two different parts of Apple's

00:44:26   kind of communication infrastructure into one

00:44:29   or tie them together is how I read that.

00:44:33   - I did like the demo when everyone was on FaceTime

00:44:36   and they were like, they're moving from app to app.

00:44:39   I thought that was kind of cool.

00:44:41   I don't really work with people like that anymore, but I know people do.

00:44:46   And maybe occasionally I would, you know?

00:44:49   I just thought it was a nice demo.

00:44:52   You know, like, "Hey, we're on the pages.

00:44:54   Oh, now we're going to go to the website and here's some more tabs."

00:44:57   It was a nice demo, right?

00:44:59   But this is one of those things that unless a lot of third-party developers add it, Google,

00:45:06   Microsoft, right?

00:45:07   if they don't add this feature,

00:45:09   it's gonna be hard to get everyone on board, right?

00:45:12   This is awesome if all of your work is done in Apple apps.

00:45:15   But like-- - Yeah, it feels like

00:45:16   an iWork feature.

00:45:18   - And my question genuinely is,

00:45:20   I don't even think Apple will work this way, right?

00:45:24   Does the corporate Apple communication

00:45:26   happen inside of messages?

00:45:27   I actually doubt it, you know? - I don't know, yeah.

00:45:30   - So this is one of those ideal world kind of situations,

00:45:34   but in an ideal world, it looks great.

00:45:37   Wallet got a bunch of time and actually it was kind of cool.

00:45:41   Again, I'm expecting a lot of this is probably US only

00:45:43   for now, but we'll find out.

00:45:45   They showed up a bunch of new partners

00:45:47   for the tap to pay feature and that's coming soon.

00:45:49   Apple pay later was introduced.

00:45:52   I was not expecting this to happen at WWDC really,

00:45:55   but it seems like they've done a great job of it, right?

00:45:57   Like developers, merchants do nothing.

00:45:58   You pay four payments and it looks like Apple just handles

00:46:02   the whole shebang like, and wherever you pay for something,

00:46:05   you could do this.

00:46:06   I thought to myself, I would use this.

00:46:09   Like why not?

00:46:10   I would use this feature.

00:46:12   I would split some payment purchases over four months.

00:46:15   Why not?

00:46:16   Let's just go for it.

00:46:17   - It's not over four months though.

00:46:17   It's over six weeks.

00:46:19   That's the thing is it's not four payments over four months.

00:46:21   It's four payments over six weeks.

00:46:23   - But still, that's the best part of two months, right?

00:46:25   At least two paydays for a lot of people.

00:46:27   It seems like one of those features

00:46:30   where there is no downside to me

00:46:32   as long as I know I can afford it, right?

00:46:35   because that can be the problem with some of these features.

00:46:37   And this is another one like Apple Card.

00:46:40   I am intrigued to see how does Apple handle

00:46:43   the I'm not gonna pay you part, right?

00:46:44   Like that's gonna be really intriguing

00:46:46   because this is Apple again,

00:46:48   and more than Apple Card it seems,

00:46:50   getting into this world, right?

00:46:52   Like this is from everything we've heard

00:46:54   of the acquisitions and all that kind of stuff.

00:46:56   This seems to be much more Apple doing this

00:47:00   than Goldman Sachs or whatever, right?

00:47:02   So I'm intrigued to see how this goes.

00:47:04   Apple Pay order tracking, that's cool.

00:47:07   You know, why not?

00:47:10   - Yeah, there's like an API.

00:47:13   I guess they said they're gonna tie it to Shopify,

00:47:15   but it's the idea that if you buy something using Apple Pay,

00:47:18   you can look up the order information using, you know,

00:47:23   by setting up something with an API to do that,

00:47:26   which is interesting.

00:47:27   They want everything to,

00:47:28   they wanna bring everything into the wallet there.

00:47:31   - There's sharing of keys.

00:47:33   So like house keys, hotel keys, like the digital versions.

00:47:36   That was cool.

00:47:37   And I like the ID verification thing.

00:47:39   So where the ID card thing is supported,

00:47:43   you could use ID verification inside of apps

00:47:45   without needing to give a bunch of information.

00:47:47   So like if you were buying alcohol,

00:47:49   you could verify your identification with face ID

00:47:54   and it would just tell the app, yeah, you're old enough.

00:47:56   I thought it was nice.

00:47:57   - Yeah, I think some of that is a messaging thing

00:48:01   that they wanna be clear about.

00:48:02   'Cause when Apple announced this, because they said,

00:48:05   you know, it's in two states.

00:48:06   It's like Maryland and Arizona now are using this,

00:48:09   but that a bunch more are coming, 11 more are coming.

00:48:15   And everybody's like, "You should never,

00:48:17   you know, share your phone with the cops or whatever."

00:48:21   And it's like, that's not how this works.

00:48:23   It's an NFC transaction.

00:48:26   So you're tapping and presenting them with information.

00:48:28   And the information itself is privacy protected.

00:48:31   it's only giving the information that is required in the context.

00:48:34   So when they mention it here,

00:48:36   this is them sort of trying to educate people about the idea

00:48:39   that when you're asked for your ID,

00:48:42   when you're buying alcohol,

00:48:43   your digital ID isn't going to give them information about you,

00:48:46   including even your birth date.

00:48:48   All it will do is say, "Yes, I can verify this person

00:48:52   is over the age that you're asking about."

00:48:54   That's it. -Mm-hmm.

00:48:55   Which is good. I think that's great.

00:48:58   Like, you know, we've all done this more these days,

00:49:01   right, verification for things using apps and stuff like that.

00:49:06   You know, like this place that I'm staying in right now,

00:49:09   I had to do like a face scan verification, upload my possible image to them

00:49:14   and all that kind of stuff, because there's no like check in desk.

00:49:17   It's like a service department complex.

00:49:20   So like there was nobody to check my ID or whatever or like,

00:49:23   you know, bank applications, things like that.

00:49:26   Wouldn't it be way better if I never need to give anybody that information now

00:49:30   and just my iPhone can just be like,

00:49:32   yep, he's good, you know, I think that's awesome.

00:49:36   The Home app, oh man, was I happy.

00:49:40   Full redesign of the Home app.

00:49:41   It's like they listened to everything I had to say

00:49:45   about what I think is wrong with the Home app.

00:49:47   - Last week we said you gotta redo the Home app

00:49:50   and they said okay, well, we'll work on that

00:49:52   in the next week and we'll get something

00:49:54   cooked right away. - Yeah, it's incredible

00:49:55   how fast they work, you know what I'm saying?

00:49:57   - Very impressive, they burned the midnight oil there

00:50:00   to do the, yes, full redesign.

00:50:03   - One page for all the devices and rooms.

00:50:05   That's the big thing I wanted.

00:50:06   Get rid of the idea of a page for every room.

00:50:09   Just show me everything with filters

00:50:11   that they had at the top.

00:50:12   So you can tap a button for lights and I'm like,

00:50:14   ah, that's great, super good, I can't wait for this.

00:50:17   And they spent a lot of time on Matter, right?

00:50:19   - They did, they did.

00:50:20   That's for those of us who are not avidly following

00:50:22   the Matter Alliance.

00:50:24   They explained what the Matter Alliance was

00:50:26   and why it matters.

00:50:29   Second WWDC in a row where they've had to explain the matter alliance. Jason,

00:50:33   little prediction now.

00:50:35   Will we get to a third WWDC where apple has to explain the matter alliance about

00:50:39   it having launched? Yes or no? No, no.

00:50:42   You think it's going to come before?

00:50:44   I think we've had the year delay on matter and now it'll actually show up.

00:50:48   I hope you're right.

00:50:49   Can you undo your Christmas tree? You're going to get a matter under your

00:50:51   Christmas tree. Congratulations. It's a matter.

00:50:54   Before we move on, cause we've got a lot to cover.

00:50:57   We're still not going to get to everything. There was, you know,

00:50:59   You get two little things that I've been seeing people tweet about.

00:51:03   iOS 16 adds landscape face ID to iPhone.

00:51:08   So that's coming to some iPhone models.

00:51:11   So you'll be able to get-- iPhone 12 and 13 is limited, too.

00:51:17   So you won't have to have the same orientation anymore.

00:51:20   I think that's really good.

00:51:22   And then also there's haptic vibration, or tap-ticks,

00:51:26   has been added to the keyboard on iOS.

00:51:29   - Interesting.

00:51:30   - So as you type, it goes like,

00:51:32   (mimics typing)

00:51:34   A lot of Android phones have done this

00:51:36   and I actually find it quite satisfying.

00:51:38   And I'm pretty excited to see what it feels like

00:51:41   with Apple's great Taptic Engine, you know?

00:51:43   - Yeah, yeah, we'll see.

00:51:45   - This episode is brought to you by Bombus.

00:51:48   Bombus' mission is simple,

00:51:49   to make the most comfortable clothes ever

00:51:51   and match every item sold of an equal item donated.

00:51:54   So when you buy Bombus,

00:51:55   you're also giving to someone in need.

00:51:57   Bombas decide their socks, shirts, and underwear

00:51:59   to be the clothes you can't wait to put on every single day.

00:52:02   Everything they make is soft, seamless, tagless,

00:52:04   and has a cozy feel.

00:52:06   Let me tell you, Jason, I agree.

00:52:08   I am wearing Bombas socks, and boy, do I want some comfort

00:52:10   right now.

00:52:11   And they are making my feet very comfortable.

00:52:13   I am very happy with them.

00:52:14   I love my Bombas socks, and they love me.

00:52:17   There's a pair of Bombas socks for everything you do.

00:52:19   They come in tons of options, like comfy performance styles

00:52:22   made with sweat-wicking yarns, which

00:52:24   mean your feet stay cool while the rest of you work it up a sweat and their

00:52:28   no-show socks are designed for comfort while being specifically engineered to

00:52:31   never fall down so let your ankles be free and soak up the sunlight. Free those

00:52:36   ankles! That's what Bombas wants you to know. Free the ankles you know. Bombas

00:52:40   t-shirts are made with thoughtful design features like invisible seams, soft

00:52:43   fabrics and the perfect weights that he hanged just right. Bombas's underwear is

00:52:47   breathable, fits well and has a barely there feel. It might make you forget

00:52:50   they're even there but in a good way. And did you know that socks, underwear and

00:52:54   t-shirts they're the three most requested clothing items at homeless

00:52:57   shelters that's why Bombas donates one for every item you buy so far Bombas

00:53:01   customers like you have helped donate over 50 million items of essential

00:53:06   clothing so go to bombas.com/upgrade and get 20% off your first purchase

00:53:11   that's B O M B A S dot com slash upgrade for 20% off one last time bombas.com

00:53:17   slash upgrade our thanks to Bombas for the support of this show and Relay FM

00:53:20   Oh baby, iPadOS.

00:53:23   - Here we go.

00:53:24   - Oh baby. - Here we go.

00:53:25   - They left it lost and I was like,

00:53:28   are they gonna do it though?

00:53:29   Are they actually gonna do it?

00:53:30   - I knew it and you know how I knew it?

00:53:32   I knew it because they announced a feature for Mac OS

00:53:36   called Stage Manager.

00:53:38   And I turned to Dan Morin who was sitting next to me

00:53:41   and I said, that's the iPad feature.

00:53:45   And sitting in front of me was Steven

00:53:48   and Sparky, and they both turned around

00:53:52   and looked at me and nodded, and we're all like,

00:53:54   yeah, we know, we know, I see what you're doing there.

00:53:56   - Steven turns to you and says, that's the iPad feature,

00:53:58   and then David turns to Steven and says, that's the iPad,

00:54:01   you know, it's like a little chain going on over there.

00:54:03   - No, they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

00:54:04   we're getting what you're putting down,

00:54:06   and because it just was like, this is interesting

00:54:10   that they did this in Mac OS, and I think as a Mac user,

00:54:14   watch out big column pitch idea coming down your way.

00:54:19   I like to look for column ideas.

00:54:21   The failure of full screen mode.

00:54:24   I know some people like full screen mode on the Mac,

00:54:27   but I think it's kind of a failure

00:54:29   because so many of the great things about the Mac

00:54:34   are about multi-layered windows.

00:54:37   And so even when I use something like Logic

00:54:39   where I'm almost always using it in full screen,

00:54:41   I'm grabbing files from the desktop and stuff

00:54:43   and you're in there and you're like,

00:54:44   oh no, now I have to get out.

00:54:46   - Grab the size thing, just shrink it down

00:54:48   'cause when I just see something else for a minute,

00:54:50   like so for example,

00:54:51   when I'm putting in the chapters for this show,

00:54:53   I kind of just shrink the logic window a bit

00:54:57   and move the Safari window over so I can see Google Docs,

00:55:00   so I can just make sure I got the chapters.

00:55:02   It's just that flexibility, right?

00:55:04   - Right, and full screen mode is this very strict thing,

00:55:08   which is like, no, it's one window and that's it.

00:55:12   And so they do stage manager and I'm thinking, okay,

00:55:14   this is, not only do I think this is gonna be

00:55:17   an iPad feature, but I also think that this is Apple saying,

00:55:21   full screen mode's not quite right.

00:55:23   And the fact that they did the demo and they said,

00:55:25   ah, but what about your desktop?

00:55:26   Well, click out on the desktop and then you go away

00:55:29   and you just drag it in and drag it over.

00:55:31   And I'm like, okay, this is trying to find a better way

00:55:35   to do something that's full, it's full screen-ish,

00:55:38   but it's also, if you want it to be,

00:55:40   it's multi windows in a set together.

00:55:44   - Yeah, it's more like focused than full screen, right?

00:55:47   But like full screen was supposed to be,

00:55:49   hey, you're focused on one thing, but like, no.

00:55:52   - Or like spaces, except it's in one space.

00:55:54   - Yeah.

00:55:55   - And you can feel the different things.

00:55:57   - It's like if you took full screen mode

00:55:59   and iPad multitasking and spaces and mission control

00:56:02   and put them all together,

00:56:04   stage manager pops out, right?

00:56:06   - And stage manager is a brand new thing and it's weird

00:56:09   and I'm not entirely, this is one of those features, Myke,

00:56:11   where I look at it and I think,

00:56:13   I bet it doesn't look like this in September.

00:56:16   I bet they make changes based on feedback.

00:56:19   Like Safari last year where it's gonna be like,

00:56:21   some of this stuff is like, why does it look like that?

00:56:24   It looks a little weird. - What I'm gonna say,

00:56:26   the way that those apps look on the side, I was like,

00:56:29   from the people who gave you CoverFlow and desktop stacks,

00:56:34   here comes Stage Manager.

00:56:36   There's something about it where it's like, it looks old.

00:56:40   - And in Superman 2, right, or Superman,

00:56:42   where they put the criminals in the Phantom Zone

00:56:45   and it's like a two-dimensional thing.

00:56:46   It's like that, your windows are trapped

00:56:49   in the Phantom Zone on the side of the screen

00:56:50   until you bring them back.

00:56:52   Anyway, so they do stage manager and I'm like,

00:56:53   well, this is an intriguing Mac thing.

00:56:55   - James Thompson in the Discord,

00:56:56   you can turn off the side windows.

00:56:58   - Oh, you can turn off the side windows, interesting.

00:57:00   - I don't know what's left,

00:57:03   but maybe it's just like, I don't know, icons or something?

00:57:06   - I don't know, yeah, well, we'll see.

00:57:09   'Cause we haven't used any of this stuff yet, of course.

00:57:11   Anyway, the other big story though is stage managers like,

00:57:14   "Oh, this is also the solution to the iPad, isn't it?"

00:57:16   And it is, and it's more than I thought, Myke.

00:57:19   It's more than I thought, because it's not just

00:57:22   multi-windowing mode or tiling or something like that.

00:57:28   It's because Windows can have buddies in things.

00:57:33   You can say, "I want these two things together."

00:57:35   And it kind of, it doesn't quite tile them

00:57:38   'cause it's like overlapping, but also kind of tiled.

00:57:43   It's really interesting.

00:57:44   And I don't know whether it's gonna be great

00:57:45   or maddening in practice,

00:57:47   but the idea is that you can have floating windows

00:57:50   and you can resize them on iOS

00:57:53   and you can have multiple windows from the same app

00:57:56   or from different apps and they all live together

00:57:58   - It looks great, man. - Up to four at a time.

00:58:00   - It looks so good. - And you can switch

00:58:01   between the different sets.

00:58:03   And if you're gonna do that,

00:58:04   we have to say the other part of it,

00:58:06   which is if you're gonna do that,

00:58:07   well guess what, you can plug in your display

00:58:09   and do it on a big external display

00:58:11   and have four apps or four windows on that display

00:58:14   and four different ones on your iPad screen

00:58:17   and it all still works.

00:58:18   And that is-- - It is a thing.

00:58:19   They went the whole way. - More than I ever expected.

00:58:21   - They went the whole way.

00:58:23   And I can't believe that they was like,

00:58:25   for so many years, right,

00:58:27   we're going back like five years or something.

00:58:30   Oh no, no, no, two.

00:58:32   And it may be a little one on the side.

00:58:33   Let's not get mad about this.

00:58:36   And then all of a sudden they're like,

00:58:38   "Hey, what about freely resizing, overlapping app pairs?

00:58:42   You can hook up to external display.

00:58:44   Hey, do you want scaling?

00:58:46   We can make your whole iPad screen smaller if you want?"

00:58:50   Like, yeah, I'll have all of it.

00:58:51   - We heard you like Windows,

00:58:52   so we got you a lot of Windows.

00:58:54   - It's wild.

00:58:55   I can't wait to play with this.

00:58:57   - And the thing that I think is the key

00:59:00   for probably people at Apple and for iPad users

00:59:03   to get over the hump is,

00:59:04   it's a feature you turn on in Control Center,

00:59:07   so if you don't wanna see it, you never have to see it.

00:59:11   Which is good, because you need the iPad

00:59:13   to have a fundamentally usable single window mode.

00:59:17   - It's Mark Gurman's pro mode, right?

00:59:19   - It is pro mode.

00:59:21   - Because you can still use all the other stuff.

00:59:23   It's all still there.

00:59:24   They didn't get rid of anything.

00:59:25   Nothing's been replaced, but you can now go into this extra special mode, right?

00:59:31   Like, and I'm like, yeah, this is fantastic.

00:59:33   Uh, I can't wait to play with it.

00:59:34   Um, I have an iPad air now because I don't have an M one iPad.

00:59:39   Ah, yes.

00:59:40   And this is an M one feature.

00:59:41   There's a best buy not too far.

00:59:43   Um, my wonderful wife, Adina, I would say is just taking the most care of me.

00:59:48   She went out today and she got me an iPad.

00:59:49   So that's going to be what I'm going to do for the next couple of days.

00:59:53   Cause I ain't got nothing else to do, Jason.

00:59:54   Yeah.

00:59:55   Just sitting here in this friggin' hotel room.

00:59:57   So I'm gonna-- - Do you have a keyboard

00:59:58   for it? (laughs)

00:59:59   - I actually, I brought my 11-inch iPad Pro

01:00:04   because I was thinking, oh, I expect

01:00:06   they're gonna do something.

01:00:07   What I didn't think about was like my 2018 iPad Pro.

01:00:11   That's not good, that's not good enough beef.

01:00:14   You know, so at least I got the Magic Keyboard.

01:00:17   So got that. - That's good.

01:00:19   - 'Cause I can just switch those over.

01:00:21   And I'll be playing around with it.

01:00:24   You're gonna be power sliding through windows and apps.

01:00:26   - Oh yeah.

01:00:27   Okay, so here's a thing that I feel like

01:00:29   I don't have a grasp of yet.

01:00:32   And I think it might be for a reason.

01:00:34   This thing called desktop class.

01:00:36   - Desktop class, yeah.

01:00:37   - It seems like what they did was like,

01:00:39   this feels to me very much like a pro workflow group exercise.

01:00:44   - I don't even think it's pro workflow group.

01:00:47   So here's what I think, and I don't know this for sure,

01:00:49   but what it sounds like to me is somebody went

01:00:53   to all of the app groups at Apple and said,

01:00:57   do us a favor, think about your app in an iPad context

01:01:03   and think about your app in a Mac context.

01:01:05   Are there things that you're withholding on the iPad?

01:01:09   And if there are, consider whether that makes sense, right?

01:01:16   'Cause it wasn't a edict that all features on the Mac

01:01:21   had to be on the iPad.

01:01:22   And the iPad apps, the problem is that iPad apps

01:01:25   were originally iPhone apps.

01:01:27   And so they made lots of decisions to simplify them

01:01:29   because a little phone is not the best place

01:01:32   for implementing every single little fiddly feature

01:01:36   of a Mac, right?

01:01:38   But the iPad is different.

01:01:44   And yet, and I know I've experienced this before

01:01:47   with things like numbers or Keynote,

01:01:50   where you say, oh, they use the same file format

01:01:54   and they sync over iCloud,

01:01:55   but there's this one thing that I can't do on the iPad.

01:01:59   I can only do this one sometimes esoteric feature

01:02:03   on the Mac 'cause it's just not there.

01:02:06   And there's no, and why?

01:02:08   'Cause the iPad is perfectly capable.

01:02:10   So it sounds to me like basically they went to everybody

01:02:13   who has apps at Apple and said,

01:02:16   could you think about this one

01:02:19   and make a concerted effort to get your iPad app

01:02:22   to have those features if they make sense on iPad.

01:02:24   And I'm sure not all Mac features make sense on iPad,

01:02:28   but it sounds to me like this was more about

01:02:30   an effort to get everybody to try and make the iPad apps

01:02:36   feel more capable like their Mac equivalents

01:02:40   after the natural evolutionary process

01:02:44   led them to not quite be all the way there.

01:02:47   So they did a big scrolling list.

01:02:50   It seems kind of scattershot,

01:02:52   but that seems to be what it really was.

01:02:54   It's more like, hey everybody,

01:02:56   think about this one for this release.

01:02:58   This is one of the things we'd like you to do

01:02:59   for this next app release, next OS release,

01:03:02   is get your app's iPad versions

01:03:05   to have as much functionality that's similar to the Mac

01:03:10   as makes sense, right?

01:03:11   It's not forced, but that makes sense for the iPad.

01:03:15   And we'll see what that means in practice.

01:03:17   - Yeah, yeah, it's just that I need to,

01:03:20   it felt like there's a lot of stuff, right?

01:03:22   Little bits and bobs, I'm intrigued

01:03:24   to what that feels like. - Yeah, I think it's,

01:03:25   I think it's literally, they built this thing for iOS

01:03:28   and eventually it became an iPad app

01:03:29   and they had like, there were features that they were like,

01:03:31   well, that's too complicated, so they left them off

01:03:33   and they never put them back

01:03:34   and they never really thought about it

01:03:36   and they're like, oh yeah,

01:03:37   we should probably put that in there too

01:03:39   and so now it's in there.

01:03:40   And it's not a conspiracy against the iPad or anything,

01:03:43   It's literally just the way that the app evolved.

01:03:47   It started from such a simpler place,

01:03:49   and somebody in management at Apple said,

01:03:52   "Why don't we --"

01:03:54   Everybody's iPad app should be a little bit more powerful.

01:03:57   If they are wanting compared to the Mac version,

01:04:01   you should think about whether there's a good reason

01:04:03   for that or not, and if there isn't,

01:04:05   maybe put those features on the iPad.

01:04:07   -There's a weather app.

01:04:09   Hooray.

01:04:10   Big in news. WeatherKit.

01:04:12   So this isn't necessarily an iPad thing,

01:04:15   but Apple have announced they are making a weather API,

01:04:18   they're charging for it, which makes sense.

01:04:21   But it seems like I think I saw underscore tweet about this.

01:04:24   - David Smith says it's half the price

01:04:26   of what he was paying Dark Sky.

01:04:27   - Yeah, so I mean, and I saw Brian Miller of Carrotweather

01:04:32   say that he uses more than 20 million calls a month,

01:04:38   which is blah, but so, and that's what the pricing

01:04:42   seems to max out at right now,

01:04:44   I wouldn't be surprised if Apple will have a conversation

01:04:48   with you, right?

01:04:49   And they already know who those people are, maybe.

01:04:52   But yeah, they're making a weather kit API,

01:04:55   and I'm really happy about this because I was worried

01:04:58   Dark Sky was gonna go away,

01:04:59   and Dark Sky is my preferred data source for weather.

01:05:02   - We talked about it two years ago,

01:05:05   when Apple bought Dark Sky,

01:05:06   and the possibility that they would do it as a system API,

01:05:10   that any weather app,

01:05:12   'cause like David Smith is a great example, right?

01:05:14   David makes widgets.

01:05:17   He doesn't even make a weather app.

01:05:19   He makes widgets with weather information on them.

01:05:22   - Well, he kinda built a weather app inside of WidgetSmith,

01:05:25   but that's just Dave for you.

01:05:26   - He did, 'cause that's just--

01:05:28   - That's what he does.

01:05:30   - But my point is, if you're a developer

01:05:33   and you're like, oh, I've got this app that's really great,

01:05:35   and whether it's a weather app or it's a utility app

01:05:37   that has weather information in it, it's like, oh, oh.

01:05:40   but now I have to do a subscription fee

01:05:42   and I have to do all this stuff

01:05:43   and I have to negotiate this with that.

01:05:45   And I was like, well, wouldn't it be nice if,

01:05:47   since Apple bought Dark Sky, they just made that an API.

01:05:49   And even if they charge, which they do,

01:05:52   and it sounds like it's a reasonable fee,

01:05:53   but even if they charge for it,

01:05:55   it means all you have to do is call the weather API

01:05:57   and you don't have to go through all that trouble.

01:05:59   And that's what Apple should be doing on its platform.

01:06:02   It's easy for you to get weather information

01:06:05   and put it in your app on Apple's platforms now

01:06:07   because of this, assuming that that's what it is.

01:06:10   but like just saying that's Apple's sort of pitch here.

01:06:13   I think that makes so much sense.

01:06:14   So that was great to see.

01:06:17   That was, that's very cool.

01:06:18   And yeah, weather app on iPad for the first time,

01:06:21   which is nice.

01:06:22   Still no calculator app.

01:06:23   James Thompson's very happy about that.

01:06:25   - I bet he is.

01:06:26   - And still no health app, which is frustrating too.

01:06:29   - Oh, something we talked about.

01:06:30   The Move Ring coming to the iPhone.

01:06:32   - Oh yeah, yeah, that was a--

01:06:35   - That's an interesting-- - That's the most

01:06:36   little thing for people. - That's smart, right?

01:06:38   When they showed it, I was like,

01:06:40   "Oh, they're gonna bring them all?

01:06:41   "Maybe I don't have to wear an Apple Watch anymore."

01:06:43   But no, just the move ring.

01:06:44   And I was like, that--

01:06:45   - But they can use their sensors for that.

01:06:47   - But I thought, what a clever way

01:06:50   to get people into the Apple Watch, right?

01:06:53   - Roll teaser, yeah.

01:06:54   - Very smart, I like that they're doing that.

01:06:56   Freeform.

01:06:58   - One of several announcements that was very clearly for

01:07:04   in an update later this year.

01:07:05   - Later this year, yeah.

01:07:06   - Not even in the .0, it's not even gonna happen then.

01:07:09   - Yeah, we'll see what this is.

01:07:11   This is almost like another iWork app kind of.

01:07:16   - Kind of feels like it, yeah.

01:07:18   It's like what is like an infinite canvas,

01:07:20   collaborative editor, - Collaborative, yeah.

01:07:22   - Multimedia, like there are apps like this, right?

01:07:26   Like I've used a bunch.

01:07:27   - Yeah.

01:07:28   - And it's cool, like I'm intrigued

01:07:31   to see what the Apple version of this kind of thing is.

01:07:34   - Right, and I guess that's the question is,

01:07:36   is this an app really,

01:07:39   or is it a feature that ties into other apps?

01:07:43   - We'll wait and see.

01:07:44   It looks like it pulls a lot of Apple technology together.

01:07:47   Right?

01:07:48   - Well, right, it's used Apple Pencil stuff.

01:07:49   - SharePlay.

01:07:50   - Drawing and yeah, exactly.

01:07:52   - Et cetera, et cetera.

01:07:52   - Interesting idea.

01:07:53   - This episode is brought to you by our good friends

01:07:57   over at member four.

01:07:58   The easiest way to sell memberships to your audience

01:08:01   used by the biggest creators on the web.

01:08:03   You can generate sustainable recurring income

01:08:05   while diversifying your revenue stream.

01:08:07   You've heard us talk about the relay fair membership program and upgrade plus.

01:08:11   This is all powered by member for they make it incredibly easy

01:08:16   for us to generate extra revenue and deliver bonus content to our members.

01:08:20   I love them before. I love what they've done for our business.

01:08:23   I love that they've given me peace of mind during strange times

01:08:26   over the last couple of years.

01:08:28   And now we have a way to be able to deliver something

01:08:31   that our listeners are looking for.

01:08:32   They wanted us to be able to offer ad free experiences, bonus content.

01:08:37   Memberful allows us to do all of that with wonderful tools.

01:08:40   It's really easy for people to sign up.

01:08:41   It's really easy for people to access their bonus feeds

01:08:44   and all that kind of stuff.

01:08:46   And then for us, we get loads of great statistics

01:08:48   and wonderful dashboards showing us all the information

01:08:51   that we need.

01:08:52   Maybe you're already producing content

01:08:53   and relying on advertising or some other means of income.

01:08:56   Memberful makes it really easy to diversify

01:08:59   that with everything you need to run a membership program

01:09:01   of your own, including custom branding, gift descriptions,

01:09:04   Apple Pay, free trials, private podcasts and tons more, whilst also leaving you with full

01:09:09   control and ownership of everything that relates to your audience, brand and membership.

01:09:13   You can even now send paid email newsletters directly through Memberful without needing

01:09:17   to connect to third party email provider.

01:09:19   You can even publish your paid newsletter content to a Memberful hosted members only

01:09:23   website and there's no additional fee when you sign up for Memberful's pro and premium

01:09:27   plans plus you're going to save money compared to other popular hosted newsletter platforms.

01:09:32   We send out a members newsletter and we now don't need to have a third party to send that.

01:09:38   We were paying for another company so we could send out a newsletter.

01:09:41   We don't do it anymore.

01:09:42   We do it in Memberful.

01:09:43   It's great.

01:09:44   If you're a content creator, Memberful can help you monetize your passion.

01:09:48   Get started for free at memberful.com/upgrade with no credit card required.

01:09:52   That's memberful.com/upgrade.

01:09:54   Go there now and check it out.

01:09:55   It could be the start of something exciting.

01:09:59   Thanks to Memaphole for their support of this show and Relay FM.

01:10:02   Alright, do you want to talk about the Mac or Mac OS first?

01:10:08   What do you want to do?

01:10:09   Mmm, let's talk about Mac OS first.

01:10:13   Alright.

01:10:14   Let's stick with the OS's, how about that?

01:10:15   Mac OS Ventura.

01:10:18   What a great name.

01:10:19   I love it.

01:10:20   Yeah, Ventura is funny.

01:10:21   I actually did, when I was looking around to come up with things for us to pick, I didn't

01:10:26   and even put it on our list 'cause I thought,

01:10:27   ah, you know, Apple's not gonna pick that.

01:10:29   Ventura is not a very interesting place.

01:10:31   Again, apologies to people from Ventura,

01:10:33   but Ventura and Ventura County are--

01:10:36   - Jason Snell, known hater of Ventura, California.

01:10:38   - I just, it just never seemed like that,

01:10:41   like that impressive a place to me.

01:10:43   They'd be like, ah, the jewel of California, Ventura.

01:10:47   It is a good name.

01:10:48   And so I should have thought about that.

01:10:51   Like maybe it doesn't matter that they are,

01:10:55   There, it's not necessarily Big Sur or Monterey

01:10:59   in terms of its majestic beauty.

01:11:00   It is a good name for a product.

01:11:02   So there it is, Ventura.

01:11:04   - So obviously the Mac, like iPad as well,

01:11:07   benefits from a lot of features.

01:11:09   The iOS, Mac, and you know.

01:11:11   It's kind of interesting when they choose

01:11:13   to talk about features, right?

01:11:14   We're gonna talk about mailing them.

01:11:16   Apple hadn't spoken about the Mail app

01:11:17   getting a bunch of new features

01:11:19   until we got to this part, but it was like,

01:11:21   oh, and it also was on those other platforms.

01:11:23   but some stuff that was specific to the Mac.

01:11:26   There's some continuity features.

01:11:28   One is FaceTime handoff, which is great.

01:11:30   So maybe you're on a FaceTime call, sit down on the Mac,

01:11:32   you can switch over to your Mac's camera.

01:11:35   I made the joke to my wife of like,

01:11:38   "Why would you wanna do that?"

01:11:39   (laughing)

01:11:41   You go from, and like you can notice when people get home

01:11:43   because they switched to the bad webcam.

01:11:45   It's like, "Oh, you're on the Mac now, huh?"

01:11:47   And so now Apple has introduced a, I think good,

01:11:51   but baffling feature just from like a strategy perspective

01:11:56   called continuity camera.

01:11:58   - Okay, before we get there,

01:11:59   I wanna give you my conspiracy theory.

01:12:01   - Oh, I love it, give me 'em.

01:12:02   You know I love conspiracy theories.

01:12:02   - About FaceTime continuity.

01:12:05   So like FaceTime continuity,

01:12:06   my mom sometimes picks up her FaceTime call from me

01:12:10   on her phone and then she can't get it to her iPad

01:12:13   and I like the idea of potentially being able

01:12:15   to sort of throw your FaceTime to a different device.

01:12:16   I like that.

01:12:18   But here's the thing, if Apple does,

01:12:20   as it has been rumored from time to time,

01:12:22   either FaceTime on something that's like an Apple TV

01:12:25   or FaceTime on a screen in a HomePod

01:12:28   that lives in the kitchen.

01:12:30   Those products may or may not end up existing,

01:12:32   but those would be really good products

01:12:34   to have FaceTime continuity.

01:12:37   - Especially on a device. - So that you could get things

01:12:38   on or off as you wanted. - Yes.

01:12:41   - So you could like start a FaceTime call on your phone

01:12:43   and then go throw it up onto the TV or whatever, right?

01:12:46   So just saying, just a theory,

01:12:48   But it struck me when that feature was announced that that has applicability beyond what we've currently seen from Apple and that's interesting

01:12:56   So continuity camera is like some of these apps and services you've seen which have now all completely been Sherlock

01:13:04   Which allows you to connect your iPhone?

01:13:07   Wirelessly, I don't know if they have a wired option to wirelessly

01:13:12   To your Mac to use its camera as your webcam and they have a bunch of interesting features

01:13:19   They use some of the portrait stuff to do lighting they can do blurring but the deep blew my mind

01:13:25   The desk view feature. Yeah where they use in the ultra wide

01:13:29   it uses the ultra wide and it crops out of that a picture of your face and

01:13:34   Separately, it looks straight down and does a picture of your desktop

01:13:39   like you've got an overhead camera.

01:13:41   - I need to see this for myself,

01:13:43   'cause I cannot understand the physics of this part.

01:13:48   - And then, well, it's all, the wide screen,

01:13:50   the wide angle camera really does,

01:13:51   the ultra wide captures all sorts of things,

01:13:53   but then you've gotta do a lot of modification to it

01:13:55   in order to get it to look like it does,

01:13:57   but it's pretty clever.

01:13:59   I think, also, let's throw in there,

01:14:01   they're working with Belkin on mounts,

01:14:03   because as somebody who's used Camo for a couple of years,

01:14:06   which is an app that does this,

01:14:07   that has been Sherlock'd as of today.

01:14:11   Camo, their writers did a whole blog about, like,

01:14:16   "What mounts should I use with this?"

01:14:18   And the whole blog is basically,

01:14:19   "There are no good mounts for this.

01:14:20   Here are some things we tried that are fine."

01:14:22   And there aren't. There are not.

01:14:23   I bought their selection. It's not very good.

01:14:27   If you're Apple, you just go to Belkin and say,

01:14:29   "Hey, we're gonna make this thing,

01:14:30   so you need to come out with a line of things

01:14:32   that can clip to various Macs holding various iPhones."

01:14:37   and Belkin's gonna be like,

01:14:40   can I sell those in the Apple store?

01:14:41   And they're like, you know it.

01:14:42   And they're like, all right, we're on it.

01:14:43   It's just, you do the transaction,

01:14:45   and it's like, well, that, but on one level,

01:14:46   it's like, thank goodness,

01:14:47   because now there will be good mounts for this.

01:14:50   And then as for the Sherlocking,

01:14:51   I would say it is a typical Sherlocking story

01:14:54   where because Apple has the home field advantage,

01:14:56   it's their platform, they are able to do some stuff

01:15:00   that poor little third party apps can't do.

01:15:02   So like Apple, 'cause having used Camo,

01:15:05   like you set it up and then don't touch the touchscreen,

01:15:08   don't touch the sleep button

01:15:10   because then it's gonna not work right

01:15:12   and 'cause it's facing away from you

01:15:14   so you're not actually looking at the screen anymore

01:15:16   and then you gotta get it in the right place

01:15:17   and you gotta plug in the cable

01:15:18   and you gotta do all these things.

01:15:19   And Apple, at least in the demo,

01:15:21   we'll see how it is in reality,

01:15:23   but the demo is basically like,

01:15:24   oh, you just put it there.

01:15:25   It knows it doesn't matter if it's asleep or awake,

01:15:27   it wakes itself up, it does it all wirelessly

01:15:30   and it just works.

01:15:31   I'm like, well, that's better.

01:15:34   yes, that's why I want the platform owner

01:15:36   to do this feature, because that's way better

01:15:39   than what I was doing with Camo in order to use

01:15:42   that beautiful, amazing iPhone camera.

01:15:45   'Cause let's be honest, even with all of the crap

01:15:48   that Apple's gotten about the choice

01:15:50   of using the center stage camera in the studio display,

01:15:52   right, even with that, Apple's webcams on the Mac

01:15:57   are never, ever, ever, ever going to be as good

01:16:01   as the back camera on an iPhone.

01:16:02   'Cause even if, when they get better on the laptops,

01:16:07   they are going to have got equally, if not more so,

01:16:10   better on the iPhone over that same period of time.

01:16:12   - iPhone camera is such an important part of the iPhone.

01:16:16   And so even if, yeah, Apple's cameras are really good,

01:16:19   like having the multiple cameras and having center stage

01:16:22   and having all the, or having the blurred background modes

01:16:27   and the different, three different cameras,

01:16:29   and like there's so much going on there

01:16:31   that a Mac webcam's never gonna beat.

01:16:34   And certainly in the short term,

01:16:36   no Mac webcam is ever gonna beat it.

01:16:38   And so, yeah, if your webcam on your laptop

01:16:41   is there to be okay, but if you're doing something

01:16:44   where you want something really good, use your iPhone.

01:16:47   That's why all those apps came out to do that,

01:16:50   'cause it's a very clever idea.

01:16:52   And Apple, in the best way, I think,

01:16:56   of Sherlocking a feature, said,

01:16:57   "You know what, you're right.

01:16:58   "We should do that."

01:17:00   And rather than like saying no, no, our webcams are fine.

01:17:03   'Cause they actually made, we'll get to it in a minute,

01:17:06   made a webcam quality claim today, right?

01:17:08   So it's not like they're not making

01:17:10   webcam quality claims still.

01:17:12   But they know that your iPhone's always gonna be

01:17:15   the best camera you have around, so why not use it

01:17:19   if you care about quality to that degree.

01:17:22   - There is just something so funny to me, right?

01:17:24   Where it's like, obviously you wanna get a good image,

01:17:28   so let's put this little thing over the top

01:17:30   your webcam and it's your phone now instead because "Oh, webcams, no good enough."

01:17:33   I mean, if you really care about this, don't use this, use our phone instead.

01:17:37   They made, for Mac OS, Ventura, a big stink about games. And I raised my eyebrows, Jason,

01:17:49   and I was like, "Oh, games, huh?" And what I will say is, so they've got a bunch of updates

01:17:56   to metal, higher quality, also a silicon. It's a bunch of stuff that I don't understand.

01:18:01   But they announced No Man's Sky is coming to the Mac.

01:18:06   As an aside, they're like "oh yeah, No Man's Sky when it comes later" and I'm like "what

01:18:10   what huh?"

01:18:11   And also Jason in the press release, also coming to iPad, which I cannot fathom how

01:18:16   they're going to do that but I am intrigued. But also Resident Evil Village, which is a

01:18:23   So No Man's Sky is a game that's constantly being upgraded,

01:18:26   but it's a multi-year old game at this point.

01:18:29   Resident Evil Village is a brand new game.

01:18:32   It's been, I think, out within the last year or so.

01:18:35   - Yeah, it came out late last year.

01:18:37   You know, my friend, my friend Anthony Johnston

01:18:38   wrote that game.

01:18:39   - Did he? - He's the head writer

01:18:40   on that, yeah.

01:18:41   - That's so cool.

01:18:42   - Yeah, yeah.

01:18:43   So when the 11 foot tall vampire lady wins all these awards,

01:18:47   it's always, he wrote her, so.

01:18:49   - Oh, well come on. - It's the voice artist

01:18:51   and him as the writer. - Anthony Johnston

01:18:52   has created the dreams of many people

01:18:55   over the last year or so. - Yeah, I know.

01:18:56   I know, right?

01:18:57   - Everyone in the game journalism world

01:18:59   is in love with the big tall lady.

01:19:01   Did you know, Jason?

01:19:02   - Now Anthony can play it on his Mac,

01:19:04   so that's gonna be great. - Soon,

01:19:05   they're gonna put the big tall lady into VR.

01:19:08   No, I mean, come on, everyone's gonna lose their minds.

01:19:11   - That's right, they're gonna lose their necks

01:19:13   'cause they're gonna be looking up so high.

01:19:14   - Uh-huh, 'cause she's big and tall.

01:19:16   Anyway. - 'Cause she's very tall.

01:19:17   - If you don't know what we're talking about, Google it.

01:19:19   - Anyway, games. - I mean, actually,

01:19:20   - Don't Google it, probably.

01:19:22   - Probably not.

01:19:23   - Probably don't Google it.

01:19:25   - Safe search on for that.

01:19:26   - Anyway, one of the game directors from Capcom

01:19:29   of Resident Evil Village came out

01:19:31   and was speaking incredibly highly of the new Metal APIs.

01:19:36   And so Jason, I'm intrigued.

01:19:39   And what I'll say is like what they said,

01:19:41   I don't remember who was presenting this part

01:19:43   from Apple's side.

01:19:44   They were saying like, Apple Silicon's really good,

01:19:47   Melt's really good,

01:19:48   and there's more Macs available than ever.

01:19:50   And I was like, aha, right?

01:19:52   Like, this sounds to me like this is what you're going

01:19:56   and talking to Capcom about and saying these things, right?

01:19:59   Like, look, we know that we've not been good for games

01:20:02   in the past, but we are now,

01:20:03   not only are our systems really powerful and can do,

01:20:07   like they were saying, like up to 4K on the Mac studio,

01:20:12   which is awesome, like 1080p on, which is fine,

01:20:16   you know, for like gaming on a laptop or whatever,

01:20:18   but they are going out and saying to people like,

01:20:21   "Not only can our systems handle it,

01:20:22   "we now have a larger install base than we've ever had,

01:20:26   "so come back to us."

01:20:28   - Also you can put this game on the iPad and the iPhone.

01:20:32   - Yeah, yeah, and it will work.

01:20:35   And you know, this also again feels to me like

01:20:37   this is the beginning of what you need to do

01:20:40   if you're getting ready to introduce a new system

01:20:42   to the world which will heavily rely on game experiences

01:20:46   as a way to sell it.

01:20:47   - Yep, you think so?

01:20:48   I think so.

01:20:50   - Mail.

01:20:51   I wanna give you four features added to mail.

01:20:54   Improved search.

01:20:56   - Great, good, they could use it.

01:20:57   - Undo. (laughs)

01:21:00   Undo, undo send.

01:21:02   - Yeah, I imagine that just works by

01:21:05   not sending it for a little while.

01:21:07   Yeah, okay.

01:21:08   - Schedule send.

01:21:10   - Good, yeah, that makes sense.

01:21:12   - Follow up suggestions.

01:21:15   - Oh, the other one was like reminders/snoozing.

01:21:18   So they did it.

01:21:19   They made mail modern.

01:21:21   It only took them 10 years, but they did it.

01:21:23   - Yeah, and it's the lightest touch possible,

01:21:25   but there is some stuff there now.

01:21:27   It's true.

01:21:29   It's true and available on,

01:21:30   even though they said this was a Mac feature,

01:21:32   it's actually across. - It's on everything.

01:21:34   - Are you getting it yet?

01:21:35   It's on all the platforms.

01:21:36   - Can we talk about the new MacBook Air now, please?

01:21:38   'Cause you've seen it, right? - Let's do it, let's do it.

01:21:40   - I have seen, I've held one in my hands.

01:21:42   - Tell me all about it.

01:21:43   Tell me all about it.

01:21:44   (laughing)

01:21:46   M2 processor, so we're gonna have to talk about that.

01:21:50   New MacBook Air, it's thin and light.

01:21:52   It is compared to the existing MacBook Air.

01:21:55   You pick it up and you're like, oh, this is light.

01:21:58   And it's super thin.

01:21:59   - How close is this to the MacBook

01:22:03   in that thinking of thin and light?

01:22:06   - Well, it's not because of the dimension of the screen.

01:22:11   It's like a 13.6 inch screen. - I know it's physically

01:22:12   larger, right?

01:22:14   but like, is it got that kind of feel like,

01:22:16   oh, this is incredibly thin?

01:22:18   - I don't know, I think I would say

01:22:20   it's thinner than the current MacBook Air

01:22:22   and so it's going in the right direction there,

01:22:24   but I wouldn't, you know, the impossibly thin

01:22:29   and light feel of something like that 12 inch MacBook

01:22:32   was also in part because it had so much less volume

01:22:35   because it was not, you know,

01:22:37   it didn't have that big screen.

01:22:39   But it, I was, what impressed me about it,

01:22:43   And I really, what I wanted to do was pick it up.

01:22:47   Like that's what I wanted to do

01:22:48   because I pick up an M1 MacBook Air all the time.

01:22:52   And so I know how I'm expecting that to feel.

01:22:55   And then I picked it up and I was like, oh yeah, yeah.

01:22:58   It's lighter, it's thinner, it looks more modern,

01:23:01   it's got MagSafe on it, it's got this sort of flattish sides.

01:23:05   - It looks so good.

01:23:06   Like they went with, I'm so happy they got rid of the taper.

01:23:10   Taper's dead to me, I don't want taper no more.

01:23:13   They don't need it, it's all thin now, okay?

01:23:16   They don't need the wedge, it's all thin.

01:23:19   And so that's all good, it's got the notch,

01:23:22   which honestly it looks so, with the modern styling

01:23:27   and the bezels that are so small,

01:23:30   and so the display goes so far out to the edges,

01:23:32   it looks really good, it's still got all the other things

01:23:35   that sort of you expect in the MacBook Air,

01:23:37   but it feels thinner and lighter.

01:23:40   Here's my complaint, Myke.

01:23:41   - No one will ever be able to explain this to me.

01:23:44   - It comes in four, not colors.

01:23:47   - This is absolutely unacceptable to me.

01:23:50   - It comes in silver.

01:23:52   - Yeah.

01:23:52   - You're silver, you know silver.

01:23:54   - I know silver, silver's my friend.

01:23:54   - You know silver's been around a long time.

01:23:56   - I love silver, you know?

01:23:57   - It's got your space gray.

01:23:58   - God.

01:23:59   - Kind of a new entry, space gray,

01:24:01   kind of a middle-aged color.

01:24:03   It's been around a little while.

01:24:04   It's sort of just a dim silver,

01:24:06   but it is a different color,

01:24:07   and we were very excited to get the space gray.

01:24:10   It's got Starlight.

01:24:14   - Everyone's favorite.

01:24:16   - Which is basically gold-y silver.

01:24:21   It's silver with a yellow undertone

01:24:25   instead of a blue undertone, essentially.

01:24:27   And the fourth color that's not a color is midnight.

01:24:32   - I don't, look, why, come on, right?

01:24:37   - So it's the two old colors and the two new colors,

01:24:39   which I'm fascinated,

01:24:40   'cause I did not think we would get them together.

01:24:42   I thought they would do one or they would do the other,

01:24:44   and instead they did both,

01:24:46   they did all four together, these two pairs.

01:24:48   But here's my thing, okay, Starlight is the Goldie thing.

01:24:51   I get that, I get that.

01:24:53   Silver is a classic, I get that.

01:24:57   Where I come down as being a little baffled

01:25:00   is Space Gray versus Midnight,

01:25:01   'cause first off, Midnight looks great.

01:25:03   Midnight is what Space Gray should have been.

01:25:06   - It's kind of like, it looks bluey.

01:25:08   Is it kind of blue?

01:25:09   - It's a, it's, oh yeah, a little,

01:25:14   I mean, I wouldn't call it blue.

01:25:16   I would call it blue, black, blue, black, black, blue.

01:25:20   - Blue, black is an ink color, it's very, you know,

01:25:22   we have blue, black, a lot of something.

01:25:24   - It is really dark,

01:25:26   and I think that's what it has going for it.

01:25:28   I'm just really disappointed

01:25:30   that they didn't do at least one somewhat fun color

01:25:35   that feels like a color, but that didn't happen.

01:25:39   So I was very surprised.

01:25:40   I thought-- - You don't get it, man.

01:25:42   - I didn't think we'd get Silver and Space Gray

01:25:44   and Starlight and Midnight, but that's what we got.

01:25:47   - What makes the iMac so special, you know?

01:25:49   That's just what I don't understand.

01:25:51   And look, I know people are gonna write in

01:25:53   and they're gonna go, "Supply chain,"

01:25:54   and it's difficult. - Yeah, but that's what

01:25:56   I was gonna say is I think that part of it might be

01:25:59   that this might not be the time to release a laptop

01:26:01   with eight SKUs, and that may be true, but--

01:26:04   - But that decision-- - Space Gray can go,

01:26:06   just kick it out, just kick out Space Gray

01:26:08   and put in a green there.

01:26:09   - It's not like the last three months

01:26:12   they were like, "Oh, we better change all those colors."

01:26:14   Right? - Yeah.

01:26:15   - This decision was made a long time ago

01:26:17   and it's just disappointing to me

01:26:19   'cause I wanted an orange laptop, you know?

01:26:22   And I don't understand what's happened here.

01:26:26   - I just, I could accept them saying,

01:26:28   "We're not gonna do six different colors plus silver."

01:26:32   I'm surprised that it's not even,

01:26:35   there isn't even like one.

01:26:37   - Yeah, they didn't do any colors.

01:26:38   - That is like the pop one.

01:26:40   It's like, oh, well, we got silver and starlight

01:26:45   and midnight and green or yellow or whatever.

01:26:50   And it's just not.

01:26:52   That said, if I had to pick today, what do I want?

01:26:56   Midnight, baby.

01:26:57   I want that.

01:26:58   - That's what I would go for.

01:26:59   - It gave me the black MacBook vibes, right?

01:27:01   It's like, I have been so disappointed

01:27:03   with space gray as a color

01:27:05   because if you're in a room without a silver Apple product

01:27:10   and you look at the space gray, you think it's the silver.

01:27:14   And then the silver walks in and you're like,

01:27:15   "Oh, you're slightly darker than that."

01:27:17   But it's just not.

01:27:18   The midnight, there's no denying what it is.

01:27:21   You're like, "Oh, yeah, okay."

01:27:23   So I'll go for that, I guess.

01:27:25   But I'm disappointed that there isn't at least one.

01:27:28   Even if it wasn't the color I chose,

01:27:29   even if it was product red or something,

01:27:31   I wouldn't get a red laptop.

01:27:33   I'm not gonna do that for reasons that we've discussed

01:27:35   in the show, red things don't come into my house.

01:27:37   If I can choose, they stay out, get out, red thing out.

01:27:43   - What is it, take off that, something like that.

01:27:47   - Take off that red shirt, take off that red shirt.

01:27:50   That's right, so we're not gonna do that.

01:27:53   But I would have been happy that there was a color in there.

01:27:55   Maybe there's hope, Myke, maybe this is gonna be like

01:27:57   where they come out with the iPhone and six months later,

01:28:00   they're like, oh, now in green,

01:28:01   Maybe we'll get like a purple MacBook Air

01:28:03   for the holidays or something. - Let's pull back.

01:28:04   Let's pull back.

01:28:05   Let's pull back. - All right.

01:28:06   - 'Cause we've kicked this thing into the ground now.

01:28:08   - Yeah. - This looks like

01:28:09   an excellent laptop.

01:28:11   - It looks amazing.

01:28:12   - Like I cannot wait to see one of these things.

01:28:15   I'm very jealous of you.

01:28:16   - And keep in mind, the M1 MacBook Air,

01:28:18   as great a laptop as it was, because it had the M1,

01:28:22   and when compared to the Intel MacBook Air,

01:28:26   the difference was so great.

01:28:27   It was the first wave of products put out for Apple Silicon

01:28:32   and therefore it was just the Intel shell

01:28:37   with the Intel stuff taken out

01:28:38   and Apple Silicon stuff put in.

01:28:40   So it was not designed for Apple Silicon, it just got it.

01:28:44   This is designed for Apple Silicon.

01:28:46   So this is designed knowing what the power envelope

01:28:50   is gonna be and how well it can run without a fan

01:28:55   'cause it's fanless, which, you know,

01:28:58   the MacBook Pro that they announced today,

01:29:00   'cause they did announce an update

01:29:01   to the 13-inch MacBook Pro that's an M2, it's got a fan.

01:29:04   So if you're doing sustained graphics,

01:29:07   playing a game or something, then it makes a difference.

01:29:11   But for the most part, you don't even need the fan.

01:29:14   You just, with the MacBook Air,

01:29:15   it's still gonna be very fast,

01:29:18   and they got to design around knowing

01:29:20   that they were on Apple Silicon this time,

01:29:22   which is why it is thinner and lighter

01:29:24   and can do all those things.

01:29:26   And it is beautiful, right?

01:29:29   Because it is, remember when Apple tried

01:29:31   to kill the MacBook Air, right?

01:29:33   Remember that?

01:29:34   They came out with a MacBook

01:29:35   and they didn't update the MacBook Air for a while.

01:29:37   And finally, there was that event in Brooklyn

01:29:38   where they said, "All is forgiven MacBook Air.

01:29:42   "We fixed the keyboard, we brought it back.

01:29:44   "It's great again."

01:29:45   And that was such a great moment

01:29:46   'cause it felt like people wouldn't let the MacBook Air die.

01:29:49   Like Apple wanted to sell them a MacBook Pro

01:29:52   or a MacBook and everybody just kept buying

01:29:54   that non-retina MacBook Air and they're like,

01:29:57   right, they changed the retina before they fixed the keyboard

01:30:00   but it was just a moment of like, oh, the people spoke

01:30:04   and the people said, we're not buying your other laptops,

01:30:06   we're buying the MacBook Air.

01:30:07   We've come a long way and this one is,

01:30:11   it feels like a MacBook Air even though it doesn't have

01:30:15   some of the qualities of it, it's not just playing the hits,

01:30:17   it is a new product, it's got those round feet on the bottom

01:30:21   like the MacBook Pro has.

01:30:22   - I love that, I love the way that looks.

01:30:25   I'm really happy they brought that part of the design.

01:30:27   - It doesn't have its name etched on it,

01:30:28   or in fact anywhere on it, as far as I can tell.

01:30:31   It's just got the feet on it.

01:30:32   But it looks great, it's got two ports plus MagSafe,

01:30:35   so that's a big upgrade with MagSafe.

01:30:37   It's got the M2 processor, which is based on,

01:30:40   we haven't even talked about the M2 yet,

01:30:42   but it's basically based on the A15 cores.

01:30:45   It's also got, in addition to the sort of the second,

01:30:49   the next generation GPUs and the next generation cores.

01:30:52   They also took the video codec stuff

01:30:56   that they added to the M1 Pro and Max chip,

01:31:00   and that's in the M2, so it does video encoding

01:31:04   kinda like an M1 Pro.

01:31:08   Really interesting that they brought that feature over.

01:31:12   So you're getting a huge amount of performance,

01:31:16   especially if you're upgrading,

01:31:18   if you didn't have an M1, right, you're on Intel,

01:31:20   then there was one slide that was like,

01:31:22   this'll be 15 times faster in this one test.

01:31:25   I was like, yeah, okay, I can see that.

01:31:27   So yeah, it's a very exciting product

01:31:29   and I think it'll sell really well.

01:31:31   Also, since we like to talk about

01:31:32   the marketing aspect of this,

01:31:34   starts at $1,199. - That's interesting.

01:31:36   - And they're gonna still sell the M1 MacBook Air for $999,

01:31:39   and I think maybe that's one of those lessons

01:31:41   that goes back to when they tried to kill the MacBook Air

01:31:43   the last time, which was people kept buying

01:31:45   at $999 MacBook Air, 'cause they loved it,

01:31:48   and this allows Apple to move forward

01:31:51   and have a cooler, nicer, better, bigger screen,

01:31:56   all those things MacBook Air,

01:31:58   while still having a really good MacBook Air at $999,

01:32:03   and why not?

01:32:04   I'm actually really happy that the M1 Air

01:32:06   is still around at that price.

01:32:08   - And I hope that over time,

01:32:11   they're gonna get that price down.

01:32:12   I hope that that's the imperative.

01:32:14   - I would imagine that'll happen, but in the meantime,

01:32:18   so yeah, if you want in the base model,

01:32:21   it's gonna be 200 more than the M1,

01:32:24   but I think that's okay for now.

01:32:27   - Yeah, it's Jambo in the Discord is saying it's,

01:32:32   'cause you know, this is how it works,

01:32:35   1250 pounds in the UK, which is like $1600,

01:32:38   but that's how these things go,

01:32:40   but it's always hot, it always hot,

01:32:42   and you start pricing it out.

01:32:44   I'm really excited to see one of these,

01:32:46   'cause I'm wondering what my future looks like,

01:32:51   computer-wise.

01:32:52   And I'm gonna be, I'm keeping my eye on this,

01:32:55   and I'm looking forward to reviews and stuff,

01:33:00   and us talking about it more over the next few weeks,

01:33:02   'cause this could be my next daily computer,

01:33:07   and the MacBook Pro earns its spot

01:33:09   as my full-on recording studio computer.

01:33:13   So yeah, I wanna think about this a little bit more.

01:33:16   That time isn't now, but I wanna think about this

01:33:19   a bit more, but that's Exciting Computer.

01:33:20   We'll talk about it more, and I think the M2,

01:33:22   maybe we could talk about the M2 a little more next week.

01:33:25   What do you think?

01:33:26   - Sure, sure, we can do that a little bit more.

01:33:29   - 'Cause we still got stuff to talk about today.

01:33:30   - So much, yeah, so much here.

01:33:32   - This episode is brought to you by Doppler.

01:33:35   In software development, secrets are private pieces

01:33:38   information that acts as keys.

01:33:39   And those keys unlock protected resources or other pieces

01:33:43   of sensitive information.

01:33:45   When dealing with that sensitive stuff,

01:33:47   it can be stressful configuring, managing, and sharing secrets

01:33:50   across different teams and cloud stuff.

01:33:53   Thankfully, those days are over.

01:33:55   Introducing Doppler, the first Universal Secrets platform.

01:33:58   It enables developers to automate the pain away

01:34:01   from managing secrets, along with the hidden files used

01:34:04   when working with them, known as ENV files.

01:34:07   Doppler is your team's central source of truth for secrets

01:34:10   and app configuration across all environments and clouds,

01:34:13   whether your secrets are in Docker, AWS, Vercel,

01:34:16   or anywhere else.

01:34:18   Doppler works where you work.

01:34:19   And as your stack evolves, Doppler remains simple.

01:34:22   From startups to enterprises, more than 11,000 customers,

01:34:25   big and small, are using Doppler so they

01:34:27   can keep their secrets and app configuration in sync

01:34:30   across devices, environments, and team members.

01:34:33   Say goodbye to .env files.

01:34:36   Set up Doppler for your team in less than four minutes.

01:34:39   Sign up for a Doppler.com/L/upgrade.

01:34:42   That's all lowercase.

01:34:43   That is Doppler.com/L/upgrade.

01:34:47   Go there right now.

01:34:48   Our thanks to Doppler for their support of this show and Relay

01:34:51   FM.

01:34:52   All right, so let's talk about watchOS.

01:34:54   So it got some new workout stuff, which looked interesting.

01:34:57   A lot of different views, a lot of different--

01:35:00   like you can set up custom workouts and multi-stage

01:35:03   workouts.

01:35:03   And it looked really intense.

01:35:05   - Interval training for running, which I was doing intervals

01:35:09   and had to use a separate app for that.

01:35:12   The idea that you can set up your intervals

01:35:14   and run for five and then, you know,

01:35:16   or run hard for five and then run.

01:35:19   In the demo video, the lady is running

01:35:23   and then she does her slow down running

01:35:26   and then she's running the speed that I run.

01:35:28   So it was like, okay, fair enough.

01:35:30   I was doing more run, walk, run, walk,

01:35:32   but yeah, that's all good

01:35:34   and they're doing those measurements

01:35:37   where they're trying to use the multiple sensors

01:35:38   to try to get some very specific running data out of them

01:35:41   using kind of machine learning models.

01:35:43   But I like that, like there's a lot of sensors there.

01:35:47   Can you infer more information about what I'm doing

01:35:50   based on what you're seeing?

01:35:53   And so I'm encouraged by that,

01:35:54   that they're trying to do more stuff

01:35:57   and also the idea of like the multi-sport, that's cool.

01:36:00   Like if you do a triathlon,

01:36:01   it detects that you're no longer swimming

01:36:03   and are now on a bike or whatever, right?

01:36:06   Which is pretty cool.

01:36:08   - The medications app and kind of system

01:36:12   was really interesting to me.

01:36:13   This was rumored before, so it's like a tracker

01:36:17   of the medicines you take, how often you're taking them.

01:36:20   You can set up reminders.

01:36:22   It has a system that can look at the way

01:36:25   that different drugs can interact with each other

01:36:27   and make recommendations to you.

01:36:28   It's looked like a very well thought out piece of software

01:36:32   that spans across devices.

01:36:34   - Yeah, and that I was, yeah,

01:36:39   that it's a great feature to add, right?

01:36:41   Like this is a perfect kind of health conscious feature

01:36:44   for Apple to add, notify you if you haven't done it,

01:36:47   you can log it, you can remember if you took it before.

01:36:50   They will let you scan in your medications to add them in.

01:36:56   Like they've thought about like all the different parts

01:36:58   of the process here, they cross check

01:37:00   to see if they're drug interaction problems.

01:37:02   Like, there's just a lot in there.

01:37:03   It looks good to me.

01:37:05   -Yeah, I thought it was really cool,

01:37:07   and it's something that I look forward

01:37:08   to poking around with myself.

01:37:10   -Yeah.

01:37:11   -The AFib history stuff looked really interesting,

01:37:14   like, you know, like, it was kind of like,

01:37:16   "Hey, we've matured in what we understand about the heart now."

01:37:19   -First we told you that you had AFib.

01:37:21   Now we're going to tell you what might cause it

01:37:25   or cause it to happen less, and, yeah,

01:37:27   that's an interesting kind of extension of that aspect of it.

01:37:30   Uh, new watch faces and some older watch faces being updated.

01:37:37   This look cool. There's that new one. I think it's called metropolitan.

01:37:40   Oh, that's my bag, baby. I love the look at that watch face.

01:37:44   That's nice. I'm really into it big time. Yeah.

01:37:47   I was more excited about like my old watch faces finally getting the new

01:37:51   complication styles than I was the new watch faces, but it's all good.

01:37:55   I'm glad that they spend more time,

01:37:57   since there's no third party watch faces we're left with,

01:38:02   I hope Apple keeps adding watch faces

01:38:04   and gives the old watch faces a little bit of a brush up.

01:38:09   - And it looks like that's gonna happen.

01:38:11   Some of them have been rethought, like the astrology face.

01:38:14   They're like, "We could do a better job of this now."

01:38:16   And so they kind of went back and did it again.

01:38:19   And they partnered with an artist

01:38:21   to create another kind of fun one,

01:38:23   like the face one that they had.

01:38:25   So that looked really cool.

01:38:27   One piece of information that came out afterwards,

01:38:29   watchOS, this is nine, right?

01:38:33   watchOS nine will not support the Apple Watch Series 3.

01:38:38   - Bye.

01:38:39   - So they're finally getting rid of that.

01:38:41   - Yeah, exactly, get it out of here.

01:38:43   - Which I'm intrigued to see what they do

01:38:45   with the watch now for this.

01:38:46   - By the way, I wanna be clear,

01:38:47   it's the astronomy face that you're thinking of.

01:38:49   There is no astrology face to my knowledge.

01:38:51   - Yeah, what do you want from me?

01:38:52   - It's about stars and stuff, not about, yeah.

01:38:54   - My brain can't be trusted right now.

01:38:56   - I know, I know.

01:38:56   - I'm doing the best of what I got, you know?

01:38:58   - Yeah, I get it, I get it.

01:38:59   But yeah, they have an artist doing that thing.

01:39:01   And then when your watch is asleep,

01:39:04   the little numbers are asleep.

01:39:06   Aw, it's adorable.

01:39:07   - Yeah, I thought this was cool.

01:39:09   And I'm excited to see some of these new faces.

01:39:12   And I'm excited to see what they do

01:39:13   with the watch hardware now in general,

01:39:16   because they're getting rid of, finally,

01:39:19   getting rid of the Series 3.

01:39:21   - Time to move forward.

01:39:22   I would say like in a way I wouldn't have expected.

01:39:25   Like in that they're still selling it,

01:39:28   or was still selling it,

01:39:29   and now they're like the next version won't support it.

01:39:31   Like it seems quite-

01:39:33   - Abrupt. - Harsh.

01:39:35   Yeah, abrupt is a good way to put it.

01:39:38   That I mean, when could you,

01:39:39   can you still buy the Series 3?

01:39:42   You can still buy it.

01:39:44   It's still available for sale.

01:39:45   - Well.

01:39:47   - But now the next version of watchOS won't work on it.

01:39:50   That's interesting to me.

01:39:53   But yeah, I'm into it.

01:39:55   There's a bunch of little bits and bobs here and there.

01:39:57   Again, it benefits from a lot of the other things

01:39:59   that benefit the rest of iOS and stuff is getting.

01:40:04   But I'm excited about the new watch faces.

01:40:07   As you say, I like they're going back and adding

01:40:09   some stuff from old ones.

01:40:10   And that would be really good.

01:40:12   I'm excited about it.

01:40:13   Not a lot to say on watchOS.

01:40:15   tvOS got nothing.

01:40:17   There was-- no Mac Pro.

01:40:19   We didn't mention that a minute ago.

01:40:21   No Mac Pro.

01:40:22   - We're gonna hold off on that one.

01:40:26   And no other rumored hardware or operating systems,

01:40:32   which it was a packed keynote, I have to say.

01:40:36   Remember last week, the general vibe was that

01:40:39   the to-do list was too long, right?

01:40:41   There's no way that all of these things

01:40:43   could possibly happen and they didn't.

01:40:46   So there's always more to look forward to future events at apple park perhaps.

01:40:51   Who knows?

01:40:53   Is there anything else that you wanted to touch on today?

01:40:55   Oh no, we should, there will be more, right?

01:41:00   Like there's,

01:41:01   there's stuff that,

01:41:02   um,

01:41:03   we're learning about all this stuff as we go and the state of the union and all

01:41:07   the sessions this week,

01:41:08   there are going to be lots of things for us to glean about this,

01:41:12   um,

01:41:12   that we haven't gleaned yet,

01:41:14   but this is our first cut at it.

01:41:16   having been, you know, me having been here

01:41:21   and you having seen the keynote,

01:41:23   we've done that first cut at it.

01:41:26   And I, you know, overall, I would say,

01:41:29   I think this was a good event.

01:41:31   I think it felt very much like a developer keynote,

01:41:35   but in the sense that it is always a media event, right?

01:41:40   And the true developer-focused stuff

01:41:42   was in the State of the Union.

01:41:43   - And it seemed like the reaction

01:41:45   to the State of the Union was incredibly positive.

01:41:47   - People were very, our developer friends

01:41:48   were very excited about the State of the Union stuff.

01:41:50   And that's the kind of stuff that is not gonna make it

01:41:53   into the keynote because the keynote is gonna have

01:41:56   to actually explain what an API is.

01:41:58   And the developer, State of the Union, does not.

01:42:01   So there's a lot of nitty gritty stuff

01:42:03   that we could probably talk about

01:42:05   that developers are excited about next time.

01:42:07   But as an event, I think pretty good

01:42:09   in terms of unveiling the OSs.

01:42:10   This is the start of Apple's kind of calendar year

01:42:12   in terms of what the operating systems are

01:42:15   that are gonna run on its devices for the next year.

01:42:18   And you throw in the MacBook Air,

01:42:20   which by all accounts,

01:42:21   they've been wanting to introduce for a while now.

01:42:24   And they said, it's the most popular laptop around

01:42:28   and not just theirs, but all of them.

01:42:31   And it is a popular one.

01:42:33   And so by doing so,

01:42:35   they've also kicked off the M2 generation,

01:42:37   which is a big step forward

01:42:38   'cause it's been about 19 months since the M1.

01:42:41   and it's time to turn the page.

01:42:44   It's also a processor that's based on A15 cores

01:42:49   and probably you'll wanna start that introduction

01:42:52   before the A16 comes out.

01:42:54   So I think it's a good time for them

01:42:56   to start releasing M2 products.

01:43:00   And yes, the MacBook Pro is also out there,

01:43:02   but a less interesting, more stay-the-course product

01:43:05   than the new MacBook Air.

01:43:07   - So that's WWDC.

01:43:09   It's just a bit, this is a lot more.

01:43:10   - That's Keynote.

01:43:11   They did a lot more than I was expecting.

01:43:13   They touched on a lot of areas I wouldn't have expected at all.

01:43:16   You know, a lot of wish lists got ticked off in ways

01:43:19   that I think I wouldn't have expected.

01:43:22   Years and years of wish list items checked off today.

01:43:26   Before we wrap up today, I just wanted to-- again,

01:43:29   I don't know if I mentioned it at the start.

01:43:31   People have been so nice to me.

01:43:33   I tweeted about everything that's happened

01:43:35   over the last couple of days.

01:43:37   And Jason and I have been really overwhelmed by listeners reaching out and sending their love.

01:43:44   It's really been quite emotional for me the last couple of days, right?

01:43:49   And it was incredibly heartwarming to receive such great messages from our listeners.

01:43:59   I really appreciate it.

01:44:01   I just wanted to say it like I can't impossible for me to reply right to all of the messages.

01:44:06   So if you have sent me a message or if you've done it now during the course of this episode,

01:44:11   which I'm sure many upgrade as well, I just want to thank you all. Like this has been

01:44:14   a really weird two or three days in my life. And I'm incredibly grateful for the love for

01:44:24   my listeners. So thank you all so much. And we'll get you at an AMPL event.

01:44:32   Next time. One of these days.

01:44:34   I hope you get next time.

01:44:35   I'll get you next time.

01:44:38   I also just want to say as well, Jason's at Apple.

01:44:41   So thank you to Apple for enabling us to record today.

01:44:45   But again, they don't need me to say this.

01:44:47   Everyone that I've been working with at Apple over the past week

01:44:50   or so, they have been so gracious and so kind to me.

01:44:54   They sent me a care package, Jason,

01:44:59   which I told you about of snacks for the keynote today.

01:45:03   and like different medicines and stuff like, you know, like, and they didn't need to do

01:45:09   that and that, you know, they're not looking for me to say anything but like, I just wanted

01:45:14   to thank Apple for just, they've been so great. And so yeah, this has been, hey look, I've

01:45:23   really been upset the last couple of days in a year or so maybe less, this is going

01:45:27   to be one of those really funny stories, you know, do you remember when Myke got invited

01:45:31   to his first keynote and he got all the way there and caught COVID.

01:45:34   You know, it's hilarious to me.

01:45:36   I, uh, tend, I was looking for my photo role because it's such a long

01:45:40   day when you travel, right?

01:45:41   I was like, I'm sure I took a COVID test before I left.

01:45:46   Right.

01:45:46   Cause I took one the day before, day before my flight and at 10 to

01:45:50   nine in the morning, London time, I had a rapid flow test negative.

01:45:54   I then took a test that it was hilariously also 10 to nine, but

01:45:59   p.m. at San Francisco time, positive.

01:46:03   And it's just like, what happened to me

01:46:04   in that period of time?

01:46:06   - It's 20 hours, right?

01:46:07   - Yeah, and it was, yeah, wild.

01:46:11   Like, yeah, absolutely wild.

01:46:14   But hey, this thing's still out there, everyone,

01:46:17   and I'll speak from my own experience.

01:46:19   It ain't nice. (laughs)

01:46:21   It ain't nice at all.

01:46:24   But anyway, I'm just rambling on now.

01:46:27   So thank you for listening to this episode of upgrade.

01:46:30   Jason, thank you for joining me

01:46:32   and thank me for joining you, I suppose.

01:46:34   - Yes, thank you for joining me, Myke.

01:46:37   - Thanks to Sourcegraph and Bombas and Membrful and Doppler

01:46:40   for the support of this show.

01:46:41   And if you are a member and support upgrade, thank you.

01:46:44   Go to getupgradeplus.com and you will get longer ad-free

01:46:48   episodes of every episode of Upgrade every single week.

01:46:51   Thank you so much for supporting the show if you do so.

01:46:55   And we'll be back next time.

01:46:57   Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:47:00   - Goodbye, Myke Hurley.

01:47:01   (upbeat music)

01:47:04   [ Music ]