409: The WWDC Keynote Draft 2022


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:15   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, Episode 409.

00:00:19   Today's show is brought to you by Ooni Pizza Ovens, Zok Dok, and Mode.

00:00:24   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow.

00:00:27   That sound you heard there, Myke, was the uh the Memorial Day Parade passing by playing the upgrade

00:00:33   draft theme. That's isn't that nice? This is how it works. The Memorial Day Parade, they get to the end of the parade

00:00:38   and then they just turn a sharp turn and just go straight into the draft. Like, you know, they're

00:00:44   like, we're done with that part. They go right down Parade Street and then make a right on Draft Avenue.

00:00:48   Yep, and here they are on the intersection of parades and drafts. That is us. We are. That's us.

00:00:54   - That is us, never has that been more true than today.

00:00:58   - So we are drafting today for WWDC,

00:01:01   but before we get to that,

00:01:02   I have a hashtag snail talk question comes from Nico.

00:01:05   Nico asks, if an Apple event was leaked online

00:01:08   after the draft, but before the scheduled time,

00:01:11   would you watch the leaked video

00:01:13   or wait for the official Apple release?

00:01:15   - I like things that are framed as sort of like spoilers.

00:01:22   Like, people talk about how we cover rumors and all that,

00:01:25   and sometimes people are -- they view them like spoilers

00:01:27   for a movie or a TV show.

00:01:31   But what I would say to Nico is,

00:01:33   if you were covering the White House

00:01:38   and you got a piece of information about a speech

00:01:41   that the president was going to give

00:01:43   and you were working for a news organization,

00:01:46   would you wait for the president to give the speech?

00:01:49   And the answer is no, because it's your job.

00:01:52   So no, if there was a leaked,

00:01:54   if there was leaked information beforehand,

00:01:56   I would absolutely watch it or get it or read it

00:02:00   or whatever immediately, because I feel like it's my job

00:02:03   to see it and maybe write about it

00:02:06   or do whatever is necessary.

00:02:08   So I appreciate the fact that everybody out there

00:02:12   kind of uses stuff from entertainment purposes,

00:02:14   but for my purposes, it's like, it's what I do.

00:02:17   So if something leaked, I would be there immediately.

00:02:21   - I just don't think I would be able to stop myself.

00:02:24   You know what I mean?

00:02:26   Like if a video like this, I would just be like,

00:02:28   there's no way I can't watch this.

00:02:30   Just because for the like, how historic it would be

00:02:33   that it even had leaked, you know what I mean?

00:02:35   You'd be like, oh, and then you gotta watch the official one

00:02:39   and see if it matches up.

00:02:42   Or does anything change?

00:02:43   Yeah, I wouldn't be able to stop myself.

00:02:45   I wouldn't be able to stop myself.

00:02:46   - Yeah, so we would not wait, Nico, not at all.

00:02:51   If you would like to send in a Snow Talk question

00:02:53   for us to open the show,

00:02:54   just send out a tweet with the hashtag Snow Talk

00:02:56   or use question mark Snow Talk

00:02:57   in the Real FM members discord.

00:02:59   Since we last spoke, everything's changed.

00:03:03   - Yeah, yeah, there's a lot happening, a lot happening.

00:03:07   Remember when we would idly discuss what would happen

00:03:11   if Apple did go back to an in-person event

00:03:15   and we said, yeah, but you know, COVID levels are rising

00:03:19   and it's already two weeks away.

00:03:22   It's not likely that they would do something like that.

00:03:25   Well, we'll be together next week, you and I.

00:03:31   - Yep.

00:03:33   (laughing)

00:03:35   We're going down to Apple Park, Jason and I.

00:03:38   I'm flying over to California at the end of the week,

00:03:41   which is very unexpected and wasn't-

00:03:43   - Surprise, California.

00:03:45   - Wasn't at all planned for.

00:03:46   We're gonna be out in San Jose and San Francisco for a bit.

00:03:51   We are both going to Apple Park for the keynote.

00:03:57   As it stands right now, don't really know what that means.

00:04:01   - It's your first.

00:04:01   - Yes, it is my first.

00:04:03   So it's pretty monumental for me.

00:04:05   This is the first keynote that I've been invited for.

00:04:09   It's the first keynote I will see in an official capacity.

00:04:12   - You did like crawl through the piping

00:04:15   and the ventilation shafts.

00:04:16   - Well, I mean like--

00:04:17   - Sneak into a couple others.

00:04:18   - For all we know, I'll be sitting in a room

00:04:21   or on some chair somewhere watching a video

00:04:24   that I could watch at home, right?

00:04:25   Like there is a strong possibility that that's the case.

00:04:27   - You may literally just be sitting in the parking lot

00:04:30   watching things on a screen.

00:04:32   - But nevertheless, they said, "Hey, do you wanna come?"

00:04:36   And I was like, "Yes, I do.

00:04:37   "I do in fact want to do that."

00:04:40   So we're gonna be there for,

00:04:42   we're gonna be kind of doing various things over a few days.

00:04:45   Basically what this means though,

00:04:47   we do not know exactly when our post WWDC episode

00:04:53   will be recorded and released.

00:04:54   It will be Monday.

00:04:56   - Yes, for sure.

00:04:57   - And we reckon it will be late afternoon-ish.

00:05:00   - Yeah.

00:05:01   - So if you wanna listen along live,

00:05:04   we will be tweeting about it,

00:05:05   we'll be posting updates as we have them,

00:05:07   and then we will be recording and streaming

00:05:09   as soon as we can.

00:05:11   If anything really, it might actually be like

00:05:13   it's been for the last few years

00:05:14   where we've actually, well, I said last year,

00:05:17   the last few years of WWDC in person, like 2018, 2019.

00:05:22   - Yeah, the pre-pandemic, it's gonna, that's my guess,

00:05:24   this is gonna be very much pre-pandemic kind of thing

00:05:27   where I go to the keynote

00:05:29   and then sometimes there are briefings and things.

00:05:32   So it gets pushed back a little bit.

00:05:34   And you know, don't hold us to this,

00:05:36   but my guess is it's gonna be more like

00:05:38   a three or 4 p.m. Pacific record time

00:05:41   because we're gonna have to do whatever Apple has in store

00:05:44   for us, which I just want to be clear, with a week to go,

00:05:47   we don't know. - We don't know.

00:05:48   - We don't know anything really about

00:05:51   what this is going to be. - I have like time windows.

00:05:52   - It's great for the draft.

00:05:53   - I mean, and honestly-- - Bad for personal planning,

00:05:55   great for the draft. - Yeah, I mean,

00:05:56   I know what you mean, but they're like,

00:05:57   "Hey, just be available."

00:05:59   I'm like, "Well, I mean, what else am I gonna do?

00:06:00   "You know, I'm there, whatever you want from me,

00:06:02   "you got me, you know?"

00:06:03   So I actually kind of like the mystery of it all

00:06:06   at the moment. - All right.

00:06:08   - It's just my first time, you know,

00:06:09   so I'm just gonna take whatever they give me.

00:06:12   Well, I'm a local, so I have to think about more logistics.

00:06:15   I can't just sort of, like, be there,

00:06:16   and I have family things that week and all that.

00:06:18   So there's a lot going on, a lot of moving parts.

00:06:20   We'll figure it out.

00:06:21   But, yeah, I think late afternoon,

00:06:24   hopefully we will do our thing and stream it live

00:06:28   and do all that and then release the episode.

00:06:30   So, you know, by Monday night Pacific,

00:06:33   the episode will be out with our immediate thoughts

00:06:35   straight from the ground in Cupertino.

00:06:38   -Yeah, and it's going to be --

00:06:39   I have no doubt the vibe's going to be totally different

00:06:41   'Cause like I was thinking about this,

00:06:43   during the keynotes, I've like got my laptop open

00:06:45   and I'm taking notes.

00:06:46   I'm not expecting to do that.

00:06:48   So I'm hoping to try and find some time after the keynote

00:06:53   before we record to actually make a bunch of notes.

00:06:57   Like I've decided, I've made the decision,

00:06:59   I'm not gonna have a computer in front of me.

00:07:01   I'm just gonna sit there

00:07:02   and I'm just gonna take it in whatever it is, right?

00:07:05   - The Gruber method, John Gruber does that.

00:07:07   He has a little notebook and he jots down little thoughts

00:07:11   but that's it. He doesn't, he's not live covering it

00:07:14   or anything like that.

00:07:14   No, I think it's good as I have relied on you

00:07:17   and the ones where we do it immediately afterward

00:07:19   where I'm there and you're not,

00:07:21   I rely on you to do the like legwork of the details

00:07:27   because I'm in the room.

00:07:28   But if we're both in the room,

00:07:31   then we need a little more time to reflect about it.

00:07:36   It'll be good. It'll be great.

00:07:37   - It's gonna be a fun experience.

00:07:39   - It'll be different than the last couple of years,

00:07:41   maybe more like WWDC of years past,

00:07:44   maybe a different thing entirely.

00:07:46   - I mean, it will be unprecedented

00:07:47   'cause we've never both gone together.

00:07:49   So it's gonna be different in that regard, right?

00:07:50   - Certainly true.

00:07:52   - And also, I have no doubt, whatever this presentation is,

00:07:55   it is not going to be like any presentation

00:07:58   we've seen before, because it's either gonna be

00:08:02   a weird WWDC, they're gonna do the whole thing on stage,

00:08:05   which I've been wondering is a possibility,

00:08:08   or they're gonna do it like some on stage, some video,

00:08:11   or they're gonna do all video, but there's an audience.

00:08:13   Whatever it is, it's gonna be different.

00:08:15   And I am very excited about it.

00:08:17   And I cannot believe we're a week away

00:08:19   because I have not mentally or emotionally prepared

00:08:23   for the fact that I am leaving the country

00:08:25   at the end of the week.

00:08:27   And I should say all of this, test dependent for me.

00:08:30   I have multiple stages of tests that I need to take

00:08:33   before this can be a thing.

00:08:34   - Oh yes, it's true. - Knock on wood.

00:08:36   We'll see how it goes.

00:08:37   But today we're drafting. These are the rules and some information about results.

00:08:43   We have done one draft so far in the calendar year of 2022. It was for Apple's March event

00:08:49   and Jason won that.

00:08:50   Historically we have completed six WWDC drafts and we are tied at three each over the years.

00:08:57   I won the first three, you won the subsequent three.

00:09:00   Oh boy.

00:09:01   But for this year there will be three rounds, 15 overall picks.

00:09:07   The draft is split into three categories.

00:09:09   We're going to be doing six iOS and iPadOS picks, three macOS/Mac hardware picks, five

00:09:16   picks for quote everything else, and there's also going to be a bonus round as well.

00:09:21   Of course there's always a tiebreaker, but I'll get to that in a moment.

00:09:24   The winner of the previous draft gets first pick, as litigated extensively over the last

00:09:29   few weeks.

00:09:30   will be Jason. Yes, that's right. People are like, "But that gives that person an advantage."

00:09:33   Yes, it's in the rules. Doesn't matter, that's what we're doing.

00:09:35   The items are chosen from a predetermined list of choices, which we have agreed are

00:09:41   verifiable on screen and not ridiculously obvious. That's the way that they will be

00:09:45   scored. So they must be on screen, not obvious. For an item to count, it must be either clearly

00:09:51   announced on stage or on a slide during the presentation. This must be verifiable from

00:09:55   the keynote itself. Stephen Hackett will adjudicate in case of a scoring stalemate. There will

00:10:00   be no partial points awarded. The points awarded on the episode are final and finalised during

00:10:05   the scoring segment. In the case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question. The loser

00:10:10   gets pick of the tiebreaker. The tiebreaker is always event duration. The winner becomes

00:10:18   draft champion and displays the champion pennant. The loser becomes draft challenger and displays

00:10:23   the Challenger Pennant. There will be scorecards as always created and maintained by Zach Knox

00:10:30   at Upgrade.Cards and there will be a link in the show notes so you'll be able to find

00:10:34   that for yourself. So, Jason, tiebreaker. Do you want to pick an event runtime for me?

00:10:41   I'm going to say, wow this is a tough one, this is a tough one. I'm going to put it at

00:10:47   119 minutes. Okay that is one minute less than two hours right? Yes. WWDC 2021

00:10:57   video he Googles that was 146 mm-hmm 2020 was 148 an hour and 48 so this

00:11:09   would be longer than the last two WWDCs right? Yes. Oh this is big for me

00:11:17   because we're gonna get into this but like it's the question of what is in and

00:11:21   what is out right like this if a headset is in it's easily over two hours yeah

00:11:27   this is yes that's right if there's no headset it's in my opinion less than two

00:11:33   hours I'll throw in one other wrinkle all right to give you all the

00:11:37   information that I've been thinking of when when doing this which is one of the

00:11:42   things we think might be a possibility is that there is an a wrapper around the

00:11:46   event that is the framing sequence, if you were, of Tim Cook live, right? Like one of

00:11:54   the possible scenarios here is that they actually will start live with Tim Cook and then they

00:11:59   sort of throw it into the videos. It may not be an entirely live presentation. It may be,

00:12:04   who knows? But let's say that a lot of it is video. I do wonder if that is a potential

00:12:10   complication where the fact that there is a live component and that they're doing that

00:12:15   in addition to the videos might make the runtime longer,

00:12:20   that they might build something that's a certain length,

00:12:23   but then they have padding on the beginning and the end

00:12:25   and that adds, and there may be applause

00:12:27   and stuff like that.

00:12:28   And I may add a little complication

00:12:29   beyond what they would normally do

00:12:31   with their completely edited together calculated time.

00:12:34   Or they factored it in, I don't know.

00:12:37   - Less, less than 190 minutes under.

00:12:42   - Okay, under.

00:12:44   - Yeah, I think you're right.

00:12:46   I really went back and forth on this.

00:12:47   I mean, first off, I didn't prepare.

00:12:49   I didn't think of it and I didn't do any research.

00:12:50   I might've said it a little bit lower,

00:12:52   but I think ultimately this is the question,

00:12:54   which is why I went straight up to the two hour mark,

00:12:57   is I think the question is,

00:12:59   is it so packed that they blow past two hours

00:13:01   or is it complicated by the live thing that might happen

00:13:04   so they go past two hours

00:13:06   or is it a more traditional WWDC runtime for online,

00:13:12   you know, just the streaming stuff, and in which case it'll be like the last two years and it'll be under.

00:13:18   I think that's the question, and I think you made a good choice.

00:13:21   This episode is brought to you in part by Mode and their new keyboard, the Sonnet.

00:13:26   Over the past couple of years, I've gotten pretty deep into mechanical keyboard hobby.

00:13:31   Now, for me, this comprises of a few things that I really love about it.

00:13:35   I have a love for the wonderful designs that creators produce,

00:13:38   both with keycap designs and the designs like the industrial design of the keyboard themselves.

00:13:43   I really love the customisation, so finding just the right pairings of each element so the

00:13:48   keyboard feels exactly how I want it to and looks how I want it to. I've also really come to

00:13:53   appreciate the joy of putting these things together myself, you know being able to actually do something

00:13:57   with my hands, learn some new skills and at the end of it have something that's just mine. Over my time

00:14:03   being really interested in keyboards my favourites have been designed and manufactured by Mode.

00:14:08   For me, they are the Apple of keyboards.

00:14:11   Their products are incredibly well made, they are beautiful to look at, and the process

00:14:15   of buying them is incredibly well thought out and user friendly.

00:14:18   Trust me, this is not a normal experience in the mechanical keyboard hobby.

00:14:24   One of my favourite things that they have nailed is the level of customisation options

00:14:27   available for your keyboard.

00:14:28   They let you choose the colours, the materials you want it to be made from, even the design

00:14:33   accent pieces, and some fancy internal weights which you can all visualise in real time on

00:14:38   their website so like you can click through all the options and it updates

00:14:41   the image and you can see it from multiple angles it lets you craft

00:14:44   something that will fit perfectly in your workspace. Currently mode have two

00:14:49   keyboards available for pre-order they have the 80 which has a two month lead

00:14:53   time and they have the sonnet which has a five month lead time it's their newest

00:14:58   product I actually did a video about this recently did a build and that kind

00:15:02   of stuff I'll put a link in the show notes if you want to see oh it looks the

00:15:04   Sonnet looks so good.

00:15:05   - It's beautiful.

00:15:07   Once they start shipping these later in the year,

00:15:09   that lead time will decrease.

00:15:11   It's currently at five months

00:15:12   'cause that's when they will first start shipping

00:15:14   and then it's a quicker kind of time.

00:15:17   I've owned in mode 80 for over a year

00:15:19   and mode sent me that early review unit

00:15:21   of the Sonnet to check out.

00:15:22   These keyboards have different layouts,

00:15:24   so you can choose which one works best for you

00:15:26   either functionally or aesthetically.

00:15:28   But what you'll find with both

00:15:30   is incredible attention to detail,

00:15:32   the highest level of quality in an all around excellent experience.

00:15:36   Mode pick premium materials and machine them with incredibly high precision and care.

00:15:41   I've experienced a bunch of different keyboards over the last couple of years but I'm always

00:15:44   finding myself coming back to one of my mode keyboards.

00:15:47   We sit in front of our keyboards at our desks all day.

00:15:50   Why shouldn't it be completely tailored to suit your exact preferences?

00:15:53   Keyboards are a tool that we use to get our best work done.

00:15:56   So why should you have to settle for anything less than the best?

00:16:00   frankly, why would you want your keyboard to sound like this when it could sound like

00:16:07   this?

00:16:10   Mode keyboards are wonderful to build with incredibly detailed and easy to follow instructions

00:16:14   and truly make typing an event to look forward to. It's one of those things that just makes

00:16:18   your day a little bit more enjoyable. You can find out more today by going to modedesigns.com/upgradefm

00:16:26   modedesigns.com/upgradefm. Mode. It's time to rethink keyboards. Our thanks to Mode for

00:16:32   their support of this show and Relay FM. Jason Sonow, are you ready to get into our first rounds

00:16:38   of the draft? I don't know. It's always... I'm always a little filled with trepidation here, but

00:16:45   we gotta do it. We do it all the time. It's a little scary, but we gotta do it. So we're gonna

00:16:51   - We're gonna start with iOS and iPadOS.

00:16:53   We've combined these into one round.

00:16:56   - Yeah.

00:16:57   - What's your first pick?

00:16:58   - Proving that I am like Charlie Brown

00:17:05   trying to kick the football.

00:17:07   I'm doing it again.

00:17:09   One of these days it'll be true.

00:17:11   Apps can run on an external display on iPadOS.

00:17:16   - That is a bold first round pick, man.

00:17:21   - There it is.

00:17:22   - Wow, okay.

00:17:24   - I feel like maybe it's gonna happen this time.

00:17:27   I mean, that's what can I say?

00:17:30   That's what I think is, I think that's where we are,

00:17:34   is that it's gonna happen.

00:17:38   We're gonna get it, we're gonna do it.

00:17:42   The display is out there

00:17:43   and they're gonna announce an OS update

00:17:45   that supports that external display

00:17:46   now that Apple has their own compatible

00:17:49   with iPad external display and it's going to be in the next version of iPadOS and they're

00:17:54   finally going to do it. They laid the groundwork last year and they're finally going to do

00:17:57   it. And when it doesn't happen, you can say, "I told you so." And that's fine. I will have

00:18:02   heard it many, many times before, but I'm just going to keep picking it. And I think

00:18:06   this is this time for sure, Myke. This time for sure. I think it's really going to happen.

00:18:11   There are other things to talk about here that I think are pretty hand in hand with

00:18:18   right, 'cause I wanna talk about multitasking,

00:18:20   but I guess we should wait,

00:18:22   'cause I'm gonna, I will assume probably

00:18:24   that one of us could potentially pick more stuff about this,

00:18:27   'cause I feel like that this has to go hand in hand

00:18:30   with that, if it doesn't, we don't,

00:18:31   neither of us pick that, I wanna circle back to this,

00:18:34   but I don't wanna spoil that or tip the draft

00:18:36   in favor of anybody else right now.

00:18:38   - Sure. - I'm gonna,

00:18:39   you've gone pretty extreme, I think,

00:18:40   for that first pick, I'm going really safe.

00:18:43   New privacy focus features.

00:18:44   - Oh, new privacy focus features.

00:18:47   - Well, that, yeah, that's a super boring pick, Myke.

00:18:50   But how can you pick against it?

00:18:52   Apple's whole branding, like they're,

00:18:55   I think if you want your,

00:18:57   if you're a product manager or somebody at Apple who's like,

00:19:00   here's the feature that I wanna do,

00:19:02   you'd be wise to pick a privacy-focused feature, right?

00:19:06   I feel like, because they're gonna be like,

00:19:07   yes, yes, that's exactly what we want.

00:19:10   Because it fits, they can market it, they can promote it.

00:19:14   What's the next one?

00:19:14   Now, what would that be, Myke?

00:19:16   What do you think?

00:19:17   that privacy-focused feature be?

00:19:19   - Again, we met some of these things,

00:19:21   who knows, could come up, but I could imagine

00:19:23   an expansion of the private relay thing.

00:19:26   Maybe they do something more within apps

00:19:28   as well as just within web browsers.

00:19:31   I'm sure some other thing around tracking, you know?

00:19:35   They just continue to crack down on tracking

00:19:37   in all of its forms.

00:19:39   There is always the possibility of just a VPN

00:19:43   that Apple could make at some point.

00:19:45   Now they have iCloud Plus, there's more features

00:19:48   they could do there, which like that VPN, right,

00:19:50   which could actually cost money for Apple to run,

00:19:53   but they could make money from it, so less of a thing,

00:19:56   and beef up that as another service.

00:19:58   Like, one of the reasons I picked this is,

00:20:00   I feel like this was mostly enforced last year, I think,

00:20:04   but it's been like trickling in over the last few years.

00:20:07   They effectively have a privacy section

00:20:10   for each of the OS releases now.

00:20:12   So like, as part of the conversation,

00:20:15   like, and let's talk about privacy, right? Like, as Zach mentioned, 2021 had a whole privacy segment

00:20:21   itself. It ended up bleeding into other areas, like it will come up in other parts. But now as

00:20:27   well, considering Apple's, you know, everything they do is so intertwined, right? From the operating

00:20:31   systems sharing stuff, then to having services that go between them, being able to link it all

00:20:35   together. Privacy is basically one of their platforms. And they keep talking about it. As you

00:20:42   said, it's kind of in the DNA of the company at this point, and they're just going to keep

00:20:46   pushing on it and pushing on it and pushing on it. It could just be an expansion of stuff

00:20:50   they've already done. It could be new features. They honestly, they surprise me with the things

00:20:55   that they do. So I would, I think like I never would have predicted the mail tracking thing

00:21:00   from last year. Like I never would have even crossed my mind. So I expect them to do other

00:21:05   things along those, along that ilk.

00:21:07   Now, the way that this is worded in our document is "new privacy-focused features," which implies

00:21:14   that they're not just updates, but they're new and they're multiple.

00:21:17   You comfortable with that?

00:21:18   Well, I would say, like, it's a good question.

00:21:21   It's one of those tricky things, right?

00:21:24   If it's an existing thing, but they add new stuff to it, what does that mean?

00:21:28   Right?

00:21:29   Do you know what I mean?

00:21:30   Like, if it's a...

00:21:31   Let me think.

00:21:32   That would be new features in a feature.

00:21:33   It would be new features.

00:21:35   Yep.

00:21:36   - You confuse me, the new features in a features.

00:21:39   - In a feature, it's new features.

00:21:41   It's okay, we know when we see it.

00:21:44   I'm just saying if they only announce

00:21:46   one privacy related thing,

00:21:47   and it's just a small update to an existing feature,

00:21:50   we might have to have a conversation about it,

00:21:52   but I doubt that will happen.

00:21:53   So yeah. - Yeah, I think that's fair.

00:21:55   - All right, okay, my next pick.

00:21:57   I'm gonna go with the reverberation of two years ago,

00:22:01   finally making a prioritization for this version

00:22:04   of iOS, and I'm going to say user controllable design

00:22:09   and theming on iOS and iPadOS,

00:22:14   more user controllable design and theming.

00:22:16   The idea here is when you look at widgets

00:22:21   and the whole trend of having everybody kind of like

00:22:25   personalize their home screens using widgets,

00:22:32   I think that we're gonna see something like that

00:22:37   expanded with a theme system.

00:22:40   I mean, it could be user controllable design in detail.

00:22:43   If you think about what Android does,

00:22:44   like they let everybody control everything.

00:22:47   It seems to me that it's far more likely

00:22:49   that Apple will do a set of themes

00:22:53   that are kind of like an expansion of light mode

00:22:56   and dark mode that are a few different modes

00:23:00   and that apps will be able to change.

00:23:02   And the fact that they announced

00:23:03   in their accessibility thing,

00:23:05   that the books app is gonna have different themes,

00:23:07   that makes me think that this is more likely

00:23:11   because it's in line with that.

00:23:15   The idea that there is a theme control,

00:23:19   which allows Apple to define what the themes are

00:23:21   and control them, but still make it seem

00:23:24   like you've got some user customizability.

00:23:26   But whatever it is, I'm really just saying

00:23:29   it's gonna be the, you know,

00:23:31   they got the signal two years ago that,

00:23:33   oh, people like the widgets and being able to customize.

00:23:35   So let's give them a little more control

00:23:37   over what the look and feel of their device is.

00:23:40   - So this is like either it changes the home screen

00:23:44   or it's like a preference that you set

00:23:47   and it carries across app to app, right?

00:23:49   Because as you mentioned,

00:23:51   we already know this theming in the books app,

00:23:53   so that wouldn't get it for you.

00:23:55   - That doesn't, yeah, the existence of that doesn't count.

00:23:58   The idea here is that you're adding theming,

00:24:00   either it's system-wide theming

00:24:03   or other customizable design controls,

00:24:06   or it's very specific new themes in places, right?

00:24:10   So it could be only for the home screen,

00:24:12   but it would need to be a substantial user controllable

00:24:15   design change to the home screen

00:24:17   that would allow this to be there.

00:24:18   Or if like every stock app gets themes.

00:24:21   - And like maybe developers can tie into

00:24:23   the theme control or something.

00:24:25   - We'll know it when we see it.

00:24:26   It really is the Apple learns the lesson of two years ago,

00:24:31   and they're putting their time in

00:24:34   to make more customizability

00:24:36   so people can control the look of their devices.

00:24:38   - This is interesting, this one.

00:24:39   So again, like as we said, we have this list,

00:24:41   and then we each pair down that list for our own picks.

00:24:46   This one didn't make it to my short list.

00:24:48   I want it, but then I started thinking about it,

00:24:50   I was kinda like,

00:24:52   "I don't think they're gonna do it though."

00:24:53   I want them to, but I think I'm kind of in that feeling

00:24:57   of like, but will they?

00:25:00   You know, like this, will they?

00:25:02   I don't know.

00:25:04   To Apple, is like light and dark enough?

00:25:06   Like, I don't know, right?

00:25:07   Like, I would love something a little bit more.

00:25:09   I think it'd be really fun.

00:25:11   But like, is the existence of themes in the book app,

00:25:14   books app just because paper comes in different colors?

00:25:18   - Yeah, or because they don't wanna put themes in the OS,

00:25:20   but they will put it in that app.

00:25:22   But again, the reason I like the theme idea is that it's like,

00:25:24   how does Apple allow you to personalize

00:25:27   and customize your device?

00:25:28   And the answer is they devise a way to do it

00:25:30   where they choose for you, right?

00:25:33   But you could personalize it

00:25:34   for many of these five choices.

00:25:36   Oh, great.

00:25:37   Well, that's not really personalizing,

00:25:39   but that sounds very Apple to me.

00:25:42   - My first two picks I'm dedicating to Tim Cook

00:25:47   because my second pick is new AR features.

00:25:51   Ooh.

00:25:52   Now, what does this mean?

00:25:54   - My expectation is iOS and iPadOS

00:25:57   will have new features in ARKit,

00:26:00   things that ARKit can't currently do,

00:26:02   and that they will spend some time

00:26:04   showing what that stuff is.

00:26:06   I have said on the show many times in the past,

00:26:10   and maybe I'm gonna say it again today,

00:26:13   that there, I think the likelihood of a headset is slim.

00:26:18   headset is slim. But I think they want to start preparing people for it and

00:26:23   that's going to be even more stuff that ARKit can do that could potentially end

00:26:28   up tying into this. And I'll say it could be ARKit, it could be AR features

00:26:33   Apple ads into their own apps, you know, but like there's going to be new stuff

00:26:36   in AR that we couldn't do on our iPhones or iPads before that we'll be able to do

00:26:42   with iOS 16.

00:26:43   - Yeah, I think this is interesting because,

00:26:49   first off, if they announce,

00:26:51   well, this is an iOS and iPadOS pick.

00:26:54   So regardless of the status of the headset,

00:26:57   what you're saying is there will be AR features,

00:27:00   AR functionality in the next version of iOS and iPadOS,

00:27:05   and that they will talk about it.

00:27:06   And that the scenario here really is that they're

00:27:09   cloaking the open secret that they're working on a headset in iOS and iPadOS extensions

00:27:15   so that the developers can work on those while we all know what's really happening behind

00:27:21   the scenes.

00:27:22   Yeah, I think so. I mean, like, again, they showed us some, again, this doesn't count,

00:27:26   but like the door detection and all that kind of stuff with the accessibility features,

00:27:29   like, there's still areas they can push on, you know. A friend of the show, CGP Grey,

00:27:35   to talk about maps and there's I'm sure new stuff they could add to maps that is

00:27:40   taken advantage of AR because that seems like one of those like really easy

00:27:44   places to add AR stuff and so I could I honestly expect a combination of things

00:27:50   that Apple are doing plus things that they're gonna be giving to developers so

00:27:56   but just we'll see what it ends up being but I expect new AR features at WWDC.

00:28:01   - All right.

00:28:02   I mean, I think the only complication is what if it's not

00:28:07   because it's all in the headset, but I think you're right.

00:28:10   - But I think even with a headset,

00:28:12   they're gonna have new stuff for iPhone anyway.

00:28:14   - Yeah, and just, this is like,

00:28:17   you're playing to win today, right?

00:28:19   Because you're picking things that are hard to bet

00:28:23   against Apple talking about privacy,

00:28:25   hard to bet against Apple talking about AR.

00:28:28   As you said, this one goes out to Tim Cook.

00:28:30   - This one goes out to Tim Cook.

00:28:31   That's where my Tim Cook round ends,

00:28:33   but like that's, you know.

00:28:35   - We know what you like, Tim.

00:28:36   - To my boy, Tim.

00:28:37   - Yeah, that's right.

00:28:38   Good morning.

00:28:39   You get to hear that in person maybe.

00:28:41   Maybe.

00:28:42   Maybe in person.

00:28:43   I'm gonna go hat tip to the Sheriff

00:28:46   of the room around up, Mark Gurman.

00:28:48   - Finally, he did something for us, you know?

00:28:51   - Yeah, I'm gonna go with widgets

00:28:53   or widget-like features on the lock screen.

00:28:56   - Yes.

00:28:57   - And this is Mark Gurman.

00:28:59   Now, this is another one of these great things

00:29:01   where it's like the feature behind the feature

00:29:03   where you can see where Apple's going.

00:29:05   What Mark Gurman reported this weekend

00:29:07   is that Apple's actually been working on

00:29:12   an always on lock screen,

00:29:14   which since they have OLED displays on their phones,

00:29:18   they really should have done probably a while ago,

00:29:20   but they haven't.

00:29:21   And they thought about it last year

00:29:22   and then they chose not to.

00:29:24   But it sounds like what Mark Gurman says is this year,

00:29:26   the new iPhone Pro models will support

00:29:29   an always on lock screen.

00:29:31   So there'll be a low power lock screen

00:29:32   like on the Apple Watch that can show basic information.

00:29:35   And he says, as a part of that, logically,

00:29:38   you would have more interesting information

00:29:41   on the lock screen that you could control.

00:29:43   And so as a part of that,

00:29:44   he suggests they're working on some changes

00:29:47   that will add more widgets or widget-like features

00:29:51   on the lock screen.

00:29:52   So I don't know what form this takes,

00:29:54   but like custom, we know what this is, right?

00:29:56   It's like your ability to put some customized information

00:29:59   on your lock screen instead of having to swipe

00:30:01   to a different screen or something like that.

00:30:03   - Yeah, I wrote the pick out this way

00:30:05   'cause what Mark's actual quote is including wallpapers

00:30:10   that have widget-like capabilities

00:30:12   and that doesn't sound right to me.

00:30:13   I don't think that's accurate.

00:30:17   Like I can't imagine Apple,

00:30:19   like there are these 10 wallpapers and like--

00:30:22   - Yeah.

00:30:23   - You can choose the weather wallpaper

00:30:25   and that doesn't sound right to me.

00:30:27   Like what I imagine is going on is what we're saying.

00:30:30   So, but basically if that's what it is, this will count.

00:30:33   That's why it's like widget like features.

00:30:35   So like it's dynamically updating.

00:30:38   - If the way Apple chooses to implement this

00:30:39   is something like instead of wallpaper on your home screen,

00:30:42   you can put a weather status

00:30:44   and it will color based on the weather status

00:30:47   and it'll have a little line that says what the weather is.

00:30:50   And there are a few of those that are like

00:30:51   active wallpapers for your lock screen.

00:30:54   That counts.

00:30:55   it's adding more information on the lock screen.

00:30:58   - Yeah, widget-like.

00:30:59   - That's what widget-like, that's right.

00:31:01   If it's a widget that is the size of your screen

00:31:04   and lives at the bottom level of the Z axis,

00:31:07   that's weird, but it would count.

00:31:09   - It doesn't sound, I mean, you know what I mean?

00:31:11   It sounds like one of those things

00:31:12   you could be told a thing,

00:31:13   but that doesn't sound right to me.

00:31:14   I can imagine and say like it's on the lock screen

00:31:17   and you can see stuff, you know,

00:31:18   could look like complications,

00:31:20   could look like the widgets we have now, I don't know.

00:31:22   but like your entire wallpaper doesn't sound right to me.

00:31:25   - You may just be able to drag a widget

00:31:27   onto the home screen, right?

00:31:28   Like on the lock screen, right?

00:31:29   I mean, why not?

00:31:31   - That should be the way that they do it,

00:31:32   but we'll wait and see.

00:31:33   I don't know where notifications will go, right?

00:31:35   Like that's the thing, so.

00:31:37   - They're just in a little blob

00:31:38   and you have to tap to expand them or something.

00:31:40   I don't know.

00:31:41   - Talking about notifications,

00:31:44   I'm gonna pick for my third round pick,

00:31:46   new notification management tools,

00:31:49   parentheses, outside of focus modes.

00:31:52   So I wanted to add this because focus mode is another thing.

00:31:55   And honestly, it's I, I, I consider these separate, like in my mind.

00:31:59   So I wanted to separate them that way.

00:32:01   I think there will be some kind of notification management stuff added in.

00:32:04   We could see an expansion of time sensitive.

00:32:07   Maybe they changed some stuff like that.

00:32:09   Maybe they go back and kind of rethink those, um, summaries, uh, or just more

00:32:15   tools to help us stay in control of our notifications.

00:32:18   I would like to see that.

00:32:20   I always want this to be a thing.

00:32:21   This is, again, there have been some rumors, right,

00:32:25   along these lines, and I would like to just continue to see

00:32:29   this is a thing that Apple gives us.

00:32:30   More tools, more notifications, like, let us get rid of them,

00:32:33   let us triage and manage them in all different ways.

00:32:36   It should always be a thing they keep pushing on.

00:32:39   -The interesting question here about --

00:32:42   I just talked about customization

00:32:45   and how there really --

00:32:47   We're talking about widgets two years later

00:32:48   and that Apple sometimes takes two years

00:32:50   to respond to something, they're on that kind of cycle.

00:32:52   I wonder about that with notifications and widgets,

00:32:55   and I think what, or in focus mode.

00:32:57   And I think what it comes down to may be,

00:33:00   is this a year where they actually go back

00:33:04   to a thing they introduced last year,

00:33:06   and think about it and overhaul it,

00:33:08   and I'm thinking of focus mode.

00:33:10   Or is this the kind of year

00:33:12   where they tinker around the edges,

00:33:14   and next year would be the first time

00:33:16   you'd really see them reacting to what the issues are

00:33:19   limitations are of focus mode. I like your pick because it's saying the first or the

00:33:25   second one is true, right? It's saying they're not going to necessarily overhaul focus mode

00:33:30   right away. And the two-year cycle seems frustrating, but on another level, it seems logical if

00:33:35   you really think about the fact that they ship the OS and then they start working on

00:33:38   the next OS. They don't really have a lot of time to gather feedback and to let it sit

00:33:43   and figure out what works and what doesn't in it. And by the time they do, it's kind

00:33:47   late in the game to put that in the next OS cycle so it gets bumped to the following OS

00:33:51   cycle. And so maybe this is a tinkering with notifications and adding more features in

00:33:56   there rather than a wholesale focus mode change. That's, I think, reasonable.

00:34:01   - Mm-hmm. Round four.

00:34:03   - This is tough. I'm gonna go with an iPadOS feature because I'm trying to figure out what

00:34:08   they're gonna do in iPadOS other than, of course, running apps on external display on

00:34:13   on iPadOS and I'm gonna go with global keyboard shortcuts

00:34:17   for shortcuts.

00:34:18   - Yeah.

00:34:20   - This is the idea that Apple introduced,

00:34:23   first off Apple introduced the globe key as a shortcut key

00:34:27   in the last version of iPadOS.

00:34:28   And the idea there is that the globe key

00:34:31   is sort of for global shortcuts, get it?

00:34:33   You know, global shortcuts

00:34:36   and there aren't very many of them.

00:34:39   And shortcuts is right there.

00:34:42   Now there may be like a third party app API

00:34:45   where you can assign apps can assign this

00:34:47   and it'll bring the app forward or do something.

00:34:49   But I think the best way to implement this

00:34:51   and also the easiest way perhaps for Apple to implement this

00:34:54   is to let you bind keyboard shortcuts,

00:34:57   which by the way, you can already do on the Mac,

00:35:00   on the iPad.

00:35:02   So you're in wherever you are and you do globe P

00:35:06   because you've mapped that globe shift J

00:35:10   and a shortcut runs.

00:35:12   And what does it do?

00:35:13   Whatever you want it to.

00:35:15   So I think, again, Lucy pulling the football away

00:35:19   from Charlie Brown here,

00:35:20   but it's all set up for this to be a feature.

00:35:24   Not a huge feature,

00:35:25   but it would really actually be a great productivity feature

00:35:28   for people using the iPad with a keyboard,

00:35:30   whether that is in like a keyboard case

00:35:32   or maybe attached to a big display, who knows?

00:35:35   So I'm throwing it in there.

00:35:36   I'm, yeah, global keyboard shortcuts for shortcuts.

00:35:39   - We've been speaking about this for years, right?

00:35:42   And then Apple gave it to us, but on the Mac, right?

00:35:45   So now they should return in time.

00:35:47   - Which shows that they get it, right?

00:35:50   And I know that there are challenges

00:35:51   with the entire concept on iOS and iPadOS

00:35:53   of a global anything, right?

00:35:56   'Cause so much of it is so siloed.

00:35:58   And yet, you know, you can adjust the volume.

00:36:02   And like, I mean, there are media keys.

00:36:04   And then adding that globe key, I think,

00:36:08   was lighting the way, which is like,

00:36:09   Here we are.

00:36:10   - Shortcuts already can operate in the background

00:36:13   via the widget, so it's not, you know,

00:36:15   they have the underpinnings there, right?

00:36:17   - Yeah, it's all there.

00:36:18   It's all there.

00:36:19   It's just a matter of hooking it up right.

00:36:22   So that's my pick, global keyboard shortcuts for shortcuts.

00:36:25   - I'm gonna go for my fourth round pick,

00:36:26   new features added to messages.

00:36:29   - This is a Mark Gurman rumor too, isn't it?

00:36:32   - This is, this was something that I had already put

00:36:34   in the document because I think it's time

00:36:36   to add some new stuff to messages.

00:36:38   - Anyone? - Amen to that.

00:36:40   - Messages, I think is--

00:36:42   - Myke, I wrote a whole column for Macworld

00:36:44   about how bad Messages is

00:36:47   and how it's one of Apple's most important apps

00:36:49   and important features and feels abandoned.

00:36:53   So yeah, yeah, let's make this happen.

00:36:57   I want it to happen.

00:36:58   - Maybe like, maybe second to Safari

00:37:03   or like neck and neck with Safari,

00:37:05   I would expect is the most used app on people's iPhones.

00:37:08   like in overall, you know, like if across Apple's entire user base, those two apps,

00:37:13   I'm sure have got to be like right there with each other.

00:37:16   And I feel like, you know, the chat app landscape continues to evolve and messages

00:37:24   is falling behind a little bit.

00:37:25   Mark Gorman was talking about audio messages being more of a thing, which I

00:37:32   don't use them, we don't use them, but I know they're used, right?

00:37:36   Like I see people using them all the time.

00:37:39   And that to me, that would be one of those things

00:37:41   where they like, they look at the user base,

00:37:42   they see what they're using, they see it's audio messages,

00:37:45   they know that their function is not very good for it.

00:37:47   And they wanna keep maybe making that easier for people.

00:37:50   I don't know. - Sure.

00:37:51   - But I wanna see more added here in general.

00:37:55   You know, there's things that other chat apps do.

00:37:57   One that Federico always mentions,

00:37:59   and I think is about time is the ability

00:38:00   to retract a message so you can like unsend it from something.

00:38:05   if you send it to someone on iMessage,

00:38:08   basic things like that that they don't have.

00:38:11   The ability to edit a message after you've sent it.

00:38:14   I would love them to rethink the reply mechanism.

00:38:17   I use the reply mechanism, but it gets messy so fast.

00:38:21   And so the fact that you get that little,

00:38:24   it opens up into its own kind of nested window

00:38:27   and it obscures what's behind it.

00:38:28   It's like, that's not very elegant.

00:38:30   It feels very much added on top.

00:38:34   And as Kate's saying, one that I want definitely,

00:38:36   and Kate's saying in her Discord,

00:38:38   more tapback reactions. - Emoji tapbacks.

00:38:39   - I would like emoji or just more tapbacks

00:38:42   than the five that you have, right?

00:38:43   So it kind of surprises me really

00:38:48   that Messages doesn't get something every year,

00:38:52   but no matter what, it has been many years

00:38:54   since anything significant has been added, I think.

00:38:57   Like the reply system is good,

00:38:59   but it wasn't really significant, I think.

00:39:01   Like it was an addition,

00:39:03   but again, it's the same, a little bit clunky.

00:39:05   Was that added in 15 or 14, the reply feature?

00:39:10   I don't remember now.

00:39:11   - I wanna say 14.

00:39:13   - Okay.

00:39:14   - Oh, I don't know.

00:39:14   - Someone in the Discord will definitely confirm that

00:39:17   for me in a second, but nevertheless,

00:39:18   no matter when it was.

00:39:20   - Interesting.

00:39:21   - It's something, this is, again, as you said,

00:39:23   it's not super interesting

00:39:24   and they kind of didn't do it very well.

00:39:26   I would love to see it.

00:39:26   - And that's one of my criticisms of messages

00:39:28   in that article that I wrote is,

00:39:30   Apple, when they do roll out a messages feature,

00:39:34   it feels like they just roll it out and walk away from it

00:39:36   and they don't fix it or make it better.

00:39:38   And the reply thing is one of those where it's like,

00:39:40   okay, there are a bunch of things

00:39:42   that are not great about it.

00:39:43   You could make it better.

00:39:44   And then, hello, hello, is anybody there?

00:39:46   And there's just nobody home.

00:39:48   And that is the story of messages.

00:39:50   So there's so much fertile ground there,

00:39:53   but they actually need to put some effort into it.

00:39:56   - Reply is what I was 14.

00:39:57   So now I feel even more vindicated

00:39:59   that it's been two years.

00:40:00   - Yeah, so it's time for more stuff, yeah.

00:40:02   - Two cycles, that's the trick, yeah.

00:40:05   Oh, it's getting tough here.

00:40:06   We got two more picks in this.

00:40:08   How is that even possible?

00:40:09   That's a lot of picks.

00:40:11   - Yeah, but we have like kind of the 30 something things

00:40:13   in here, but it gets hard, right?

00:40:15   You get up in the rarefied air quickly.

00:40:18   - Yeah, yeah, well that's good though.

00:40:20   You and I were talking beforehand

00:40:21   about how many picks we're doing.

00:40:22   It's like, I think it's actually better with more picks

00:40:24   because it drives us to make more esoteric picks,

00:40:26   which makes the scoring more fun,

00:40:28   'cause we're not just picking obvious things

00:40:29   and getting them all right.

00:40:30   I'm gonna make a very esoteric WWDC pick here,

00:40:34   because it's just,

00:40:38   I have no information about this happening,

00:40:40   but following on from last year,

00:40:42   it feels like something they would do.

00:40:44   And I'm going to pick it,

00:40:45   which is there's this thing called Car Key.

00:40:48   Apple announced last year the idea that Car Key

00:40:51   was gonna work in like two companies of cars.

00:40:55   So I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna say it,

00:40:57   this year Apple's going to mention new car key partner

00:41:00   or partners, the idea that they're gonna say,

00:41:03   "And now it's gonna be an old Mercedes," or whatever,

00:41:07   whatever it is for this car thing.

00:41:09   Because I think it demos well,

00:41:11   and for them to mention fabulous car companies

00:41:14   that are partnering with Apple,

00:41:17   yeah, it's a total random pick,

00:41:18   but it feels very WWDC stagecraft to me.

00:41:23   - I don't have a ton to say about this,

00:41:24   but I can see where you're going with it.

00:41:26   - You're right, I mean, again, it's totally random

00:41:29   and it probably won't happen, but I like the,

00:41:32   I just, I can picture them saying,

00:41:33   'cause it's a new thing

00:41:34   and there's not a lot of support for it.

00:41:36   They announced, I think, two companies

00:41:37   that were eventually gonna support Carkey.

00:41:39   - BMW was one, I think. - It's a really cool,

00:41:41   yeah, it's a really cool idea.

00:41:44   And I feel like it's something that they wanna talk about

00:41:47   in terms of the utility of the iPhone and iOS,

00:41:52   and that if they have some partners lined up,

00:41:55   which I don't know if they do,

00:41:56   but like this would be a good bit of stagecraft to say,

00:41:59   and look, now we've got five different companies

00:42:01   that are supporting this.

00:42:01   So you're gonna be able to unlock your car with your iPhone.

00:42:06   - My next pick is, it's interesting.

00:42:08   I actually thought you were gonna go with mine.

00:42:10   It's WWDC, it's a developer conference.

00:42:13   So I'm gonna pick for round five enhancements to SwiftUI.

00:42:16   SwiftUI is supposed to be the future, right?

00:42:21   - It is.

00:42:22   some point they need to do more with it.

00:42:25   (laughs)

00:42:26   - They do.

00:42:27   - Is what I get from listening to my developer friends.

00:42:29   - I didn't have it on my list

00:42:31   because I'm actually skeptical that they're gonna do this

00:42:33   and talk about it on the keynote and all that,

00:42:34   but it absolutely needs to happen.

00:42:36   I think the most illustrative thing about this is,

00:42:38   yes, all of our developer friends

00:42:40   who've tried to use SwiftUI say basically,

00:42:42   like they can get 80% of the way there,

00:42:44   actually pretty easily.

00:42:45   And they're like, "Oh, I see what Apple's saying here."

00:42:47   And then they get to the last 20 or 10%

00:42:50   and they slam into a brick wall.

00:42:52   And the classic example here is, I believe,

00:42:57   shortcuts on the Mac and actually across done in SwiftUI

00:43:02   and that it's like the best example of Apple,

00:43:05   dogfooding SwiftUI and coming to terms with the fact that

00:43:09   it's not all there yet.

00:43:11   And this is supposed to be the future of Apple,

00:43:14   you know, app development.

00:43:15   So wouldn't it be great if there was a major new enhancement

00:43:19   SwiftUI that Apple extolled the virtues of in the keynote and in the State of the Union

00:43:24   and in a bunch of sessions. I hope it happens. You felt more comfortable betting on it than

00:43:30   I did.

00:43:31   I've realized, honestly, this is the riskiest pick I've made so far for a number of reasons.

00:43:37   One, they might not do anything. Two, they might do it, but it would be in the State

00:43:41   of the Union.

00:43:42   Could be.

00:43:43   Right.

00:43:44   Hard to believe they wouldn't mention it, though.

00:43:46   I mean we'll find out. I don't know if SwiftUI belongs in the keynote now that they've announced

00:43:50   it, but I think it should. And again, this is going to have to be one of those things

00:43:55   where we've been through this before with like, um, catalyst apps. They have to say

00:44:01   that SwiftUI stuff, like if we can point to an app and be like "Ah, that's made in SwiftUI!"

00:44:05   and then they say it and it's like doing a bunch of stuff that it couldn't do before,

00:44:08   like it's not going to count. Like they need to call it out as like "This is new for SwiftUI"

00:44:13   or here's some features for SwiftUI,

00:44:15   or we've added a bunch.

00:44:17   And honestly, I'll tell you the place

00:44:19   that I feel like I could get this, Jason,

00:44:21   is like one of those word clouds, you know?

00:44:25   They're like something, something, something in SwiftUI,

00:44:27   right, like that might be where they go with it.

00:44:29   I don't know, but I do actually think

00:44:31   this is probably the riskiest pick that I'm making

00:44:33   as part of these iOS and iPadOS picks.

00:44:36   - That's okay, I picked Carkey, it's fine.

00:44:38   - You sure did, didn't you?

00:44:39   That's why I have a little, all right, now's the time.

00:44:41   - Now's the time.

00:44:42   - Okay, I'm gonna wrap up my iOS and iPadOS pick round

00:44:47   with an item that actually was not on my list

00:44:49   of top choices, but I don't wanna double down

00:44:51   on either of the remaining items.

00:44:53   So I'm gonna go with this one.

00:44:55   Rumor has been that it's out there

00:44:58   and that it's going to happen and it still hasn't happened.

00:45:01   Well, we're almost at WWDC now,

00:45:03   so it's probably where Apple will finally officially

00:45:07   announce its classical music app.

00:45:09   Boom.

00:45:10   - I was wondering about this one.

00:45:13   - I think it exists.

00:45:14   I think we've seen so many hints that it does exist

00:45:16   and they bought it and all of that.

00:45:18   And so if you're laying out the groundwork for the fall,

00:45:22   it's gotta be in there, right?

00:45:23   So now they may announce it and say,

00:45:24   it's actually shipping in a week to existing iOS customers,

00:45:28   right, everybody will get it right away.

00:45:30   It may not actually be a thing

00:45:31   that is all the way in the fall,

00:45:34   but if it's going to exist and yet it doesn't exist yet,

00:45:38   why would you not announce its existence on your stage?

00:45:42   It's an iOS feature, even if it's not in the next,

00:45:46   and remember, we're not picking things announced

00:45:48   for the betas of the next iOS.

00:45:50   We're just doing announcements.

00:45:52   And it's like, it's sitting right there.

00:45:54   How do you go all the way to fall essentially

00:45:58   without admitting that the classical music app exists?

00:46:00   So gotta mention it.

00:46:02   Now there's, and they'll just throw it in.

00:46:03   They'll be like, oh, and we're doing a classical music app.

00:46:06   Yay!

00:46:07   move and because apparently Kermit the Frog is hosting that segment anyway.

00:46:13   Most of the time he's just sitting there sipping tea but he gets very excited

00:46:18   about classical music. He's listening to classical music while sipping the tea.

00:46:22   That's right. He's strumming along on his banjo. Fancy Frog. There is

00:46:27   definitely a history of music stuff in the WWDC keynote that does not

00:46:32   deserve to be there so you know they have a history of putting music in

00:46:37   developer keynote so it could happen again. They really do. I was reminded of that on connected

00:46:43   last week right the idea that they had a they announced Apple Music and had a musical guest

00:46:48   during the WWDC. I remember that. I remember sitting there thinking really that was the worst

00:46:54   that was WWDC keynote really my final pick I am picking this purely because I want it to happen.

00:47:03   I don't necessarily think it's gonna happen.

00:47:05   I just want it. - I love it.

00:47:06   That's part of the draft, Myke.

00:47:08   - I'm putting it out there.

00:47:09   - It wears us down.

00:47:10   We do these certain picks and we're like,

00:47:11   "Oh, but I also need to conjure something

00:47:13   "into existence by picking it."

00:47:15   - I'm manifesting here, all right?

00:47:16   - Yes, let's do it. - And it is a redesign

00:47:18   of the Home app, because the Home app is bad.

00:47:23   It is bad, it's a bad app.

00:47:26   Oh, hey. - You are putting

00:47:27   a lot of weight into Apple fixing its wayward apps

00:47:31   in this round.

00:47:32   - Yeah, it's like, look, hey, oh, you wanna turn off a light

00:47:36   in this room, or you don't have it in your favorites?

00:47:38   Click over to this tab and swipe three pages.

00:47:40   Why, why show me all of my turned on lights?

00:47:44   - We hear that Apple is committed to the home again, right?

00:47:49   That they're working on stuff and there are rumors

00:47:51   about new home pods and all sorts of other stuff going on.

00:47:54   And the center of it all is the Home app and it's awful.

00:48:00   It's so bad.

00:48:02   So I'm right there with you.

00:48:04   I mean, this is, you know, I try, you know this, Myke,

00:48:09   I try to be a very measured person and be like,

00:48:11   "Look, you gotta see both sides of it."

00:48:13   And it's more complicated than the easy takes

00:48:17   would have you believe and all of that.

00:48:18   So with that said, let me say,

00:48:20   best solution to the home app is to just start over.

00:48:24   There's nothing to be salvaged for the home app.

00:48:26   - The foundation, like the visual foundation

00:48:28   is real bad. - It's garbage.

00:48:29   - Like underpinning it, I'm sure it's good.

00:48:30   - It's terrible.

00:48:31   - You know, like whatever, like you've built all the stuff

00:48:33   and I will say Apple's home app.

00:48:35   - Throw it away.

00:48:36   - Is fast, it's faster than any of the other things

00:48:38   that I've used and that's why I like it.

00:48:40   HomeKit, the actual, like you press a button

00:48:42   and the light goes on, like it's faster

00:48:44   than the other applications that I've used.

00:48:46   So whatever they've got underneath, great.

00:48:49   But the application itself is such a mess.

00:48:53   - Unsalvageable, I'm officially saying it here.

00:48:56   Please, I hope if they do this,

00:48:58   they are not trying to tweak what's there.

00:49:00   'Cause what's there is just bad.

00:49:01   It's just bad.

00:49:03   Think it, rethink what you want a home interface to.

00:49:06   That design was built in a different era

00:49:08   for smart home devices.

00:49:10   And theoretically Apple knows what the current era is like

00:49:13   and what the future is going to be like with Matter

00:49:15   and all the rest.

00:49:16   And that there should be a home app that is designed around

00:49:20   what an actual set of smart devices in homes will look like.

00:49:24   And that app ain't it.

00:49:26   So give us something new. - If I'm supposed to have

00:49:29   smart devices in every room of my home,

00:49:32   home app is failing, right?

00:49:33   The way that it shows that stuff to me.

00:49:36   And I understand that they would prefer me to have home pods

00:49:39   and I'll speak it, but it's just not always

00:49:41   gonna be the case.

00:49:42   And I don't always wanna do it that way.

00:49:43   So give me a better way to manage all that stuff.

00:49:46   - I'm right there with you, Myke.

00:49:47   Let's go, Myke, let's go.

00:49:49   I see I'm gonna be rooting for you now.

00:49:50   You got me pulling for one of your draft picks now.

00:49:52   I'm very excited.

00:49:53   - That's how it goes.

00:49:55   - So that's the end of our iOS and iPadOS round.

00:49:57   Six picks down. - Oh yeah.

00:49:58   - So I'm gonna come back to the first one.

00:50:01   Apps can run on external displays on iPadOS.

00:50:03   No, we didn't come back to it,

00:50:05   which was if there would be a new windowing

00:50:07   or multitasking mode or something on iPadOS.

00:50:10   - I took it to be that if I went,

00:50:13   like I was taking it the extra step.

00:50:16   'Cause I don't think you can do apps can run

00:50:18   on an external display without having some new modes, right?

00:50:20   That would be, fundamentally it would be a multitasking mode

00:50:23   But when we got to the end,

00:50:24   you decided not to kind of counteract my pick

00:50:27   and I decided not to double down on it.

00:50:29   But I think that's the implication is that,

00:50:32   if Apple is allowing apps on external displays,

00:50:36   there probably has to be some new tiling

00:50:38   or floating window modes.

00:50:40   I would think that they would also allow,

00:50:43   especially on the larger iPad Pro,

00:50:44   but probably all the iPads,

00:50:48   the ability to undock something

00:50:50   and have it be a floating window

00:50:51   or have some other kind of mode that it goes in

00:50:54   that is a multitasking mode that is maybe more Mac-like

00:50:58   or tile-like in some way.

00:50:59   Now, if they do that,

00:51:01   but say you can't put it on an external display,

00:51:04   then I lose my pick, I guess.

00:51:05   But I want it to go all the way

00:51:07   'cause I think they go hand in hand.

00:51:08   - Yep.

00:51:09   And obviously this is different to like the mirroring, right?

00:51:14   - Yeah, that's the point.

00:51:15   Is having an app on an iPad

00:51:16   that outputs video to the second display

00:51:18   or some other thing,

00:51:19   or is a mirror to the second display,

00:51:21   we know that that's what it does already.

00:51:23   This is a new thing where you can take an app

00:51:25   and just run it and it's on an external display

00:51:28   and you can control it and it's running and you see it

00:51:31   and it's the whole UI and it's not mirrored.

00:51:34   It's running on that external display.

00:51:35   So we'll see.

00:51:36   I also didn't double down on shortcuts

00:51:38   'cause I had a very vague automation improvements

00:51:40   that was, I was thinking like being able to run a shortcut

00:51:43   every 10 minutes or whatever, right?

00:51:45   And that would be a thing I would like to see,

00:51:46   but I already made a shortcuts pick there.

00:51:48   So I decided not to double down, but I like it.

00:51:50   We both made some weird picks and we both made some dream picks and we both made some

00:51:55   realistic picks. So it's a good, a good collection there for the iOS and iPadOS round, I think.

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00:54:58   It is time for our combined macOS and Mac hardware picks.

00:55:03   And people would say, "Hey, why that?"

00:55:04   and we'll say, well, you give me a bunch of Mac OS features.

00:55:08   And you know, it's not as simple as you may think

00:55:11   for as it is for iOS and iPadOS, I feel at this point.

00:55:14   - I agree, I struggled a bit.

00:55:16   In fact, you put down one of the first ones

00:55:18   that you put down was focus on stability and bug fixes,

00:55:21   which is the most boring pick ever, but you know,

00:55:25   it might be, it was a struggle here to think of things

00:55:29   that aren't, I mean, I did think about like putting in

00:55:32   kind of duplicates of things that we put in the other round,

00:55:34   but the truth is a lot of the iOS stuff

00:55:36   will also appear in some form on the Mac.

00:55:38   And it seemed a little silly to have those,

00:55:40   like I could put in some like,

00:55:42   some sort of theme that is similar to the themes

00:55:45   that are available, right?

00:55:46   I don't need to pick that.

00:55:48   So we have a smaller selection here.

00:55:50   I'm gonna go with something that I thought of this morning

00:55:56   and I talked to you about that I think is

00:55:59   an interesting thing to predict, but is inevitable,

00:56:02   which is at least one feature will be

00:56:05   for Apple Silicon Macs only.

00:56:07   - Oh, this is a good pick.

00:56:09   This is a really good pick.

00:56:10   I like this one. - They have to say it,

00:56:11   I guess, right?

00:56:12   But I imagine they'll say,

00:56:13   now using the power of Apple Silicon, we can do this.

00:56:15   'Cause we are, I think, gonna get to the point here

00:56:18   where macOS updates still happen for Intel

00:56:21   for a couple of years,

00:56:22   but a lot of banner features just won't work on Intel.

00:56:26   - Yep.

00:56:27   - It feels inevitable.

00:56:29   It also feels like if that's not gonna happen,

00:56:33   why do all of this?

00:56:35   - Yeah.

00:56:36   - You know?

00:56:37   - You wanna show it off, right?

00:56:38   - The assumption is one of the reasons

00:56:41   that they went to their own silicon

00:56:43   is so they could do things

00:56:45   that they've otherwise been held off from doing.

00:56:47   And this has already happened, right?

00:56:48   There was some features that have been Apple Silicon only.

00:56:52   There was some that they announced as such

00:56:54   and then I think live text it wasn't

00:56:55   and they found a way to bring it to Intel Max,

00:56:57   but this is going to be a thing that continues.

00:57:00   And it kind of should, in my opinion,

00:57:03   like you got to take advantage of the hardware

00:57:05   that you're on.

00:57:05   And this can be from either just a pure power perspective

00:57:08   or the neural engines or whatever,

00:57:10   but otherwise, you know, just why keep doing it?

00:57:14   Like they'll keep updating macOS for years as they should

00:57:18   and keep doing things that are important for it.

00:57:20   - This is the question is processor transition.

00:57:24   What I wanna say is the end of the line

00:57:28   for Intel macOS updates will come faster

00:57:32   than you would think.

00:57:33   Apple's been so good at providing compatibility.

00:57:36   I do wonder what the form of the end

00:57:38   of the Intel era takes on macOS,

00:57:41   and is it that it goes for a while

00:57:46   and most of the new features work on Intel?

00:57:48   Is it that it goes for a while,

00:57:50   But while all these new features come to Apple Silicon,

00:57:54   the Intel version doesn't really get them.

00:57:56   Or is it more that it goes for a couple of years

00:57:59   and then the Intel version of macOS

00:58:01   gets like security updates,

00:58:03   but it doesn't get anything else after that.

00:58:05   I don't know how they're gonna handle it.

00:58:06   It'd be interesting to see.

00:58:07   'Cause one way to do it is,

00:58:09   and they do some of this on the iPhone a lot,

00:58:11   which is you're still updating to the new version of the OS,

00:58:15   but some of the features just aren't there

00:58:17   if you're on old hardware.

00:58:18   and it allows them to get all those people updated

00:58:21   and they're on the same version,

00:58:23   but there's a bunch of stuff that just doesn't work

00:58:25   on your phone because it's too old.

00:58:28   And they could do that with the Mac.

00:58:30   They could be like, yeah, you're totally on Mac OS 17,

00:58:34   but the eight banner features that WWDC that year,

00:58:38   like only three of them actually even function on it

00:58:40   because the rest are Apple Silicon only.

00:58:43   And that's kind of a bummer,

00:58:44   but the alternative I think is probably

00:58:46   not getting an update at all.

00:58:48   - For my first pick, again, I'm channeling my previous

00:58:51   energy in the iOS round.

00:58:54   - Love it.

00:58:54   - To fix what I think is the worst thing on Mac OS.

00:58:57   - Dream pick.

00:58:58   - New way to access widgets on Mac OS.

00:59:01   - Oh yes, yes please.

00:59:04   - Adding widgets to Mac OS, Monterrey.

00:59:07   We're on Monterrey, right?

00:59:08   I always forget, I don't know why I struggle with this.

00:59:10   Monterrey, right?

00:59:11   - It's Monterrey, last year was big sir,

00:59:13   this year's Monterrey, is that right?

00:59:15   - Yeah, we're gonna go with that.

00:59:17   The worst thing I did to Monterey was put widgets in it

00:59:19   because the widget experience is bad

00:59:22   and it ruined notifications.

00:59:24   I just want them to do a different thing with it.

00:59:26   Whether they put them on the desktop or they--

00:59:29   - Dashboard.

00:59:30   - Bring back dashboard or whatever it is they're gonna do,

00:59:34   do something.

00:59:35   Get rid of launchpad and put widgets in instead.

00:59:37   I don't know, but the way we currently have it is not great.

00:59:41   So I'm gonna say this pick was originally a better way,

00:59:46   but I felt that's a weird thing to judge.

00:59:48   So I've changed it to new way.

00:59:49   So if they just keep them in the notification thing,

00:59:52   but they do it differently, that's not it.

00:59:53   New way to access widgets on macOS.

00:59:56   I think they got to break them out of that sidebar.

00:59:58   - Yeah, one, notification center,

01:00:00   widgets aren't notifications.

01:00:01   So what is happening?

01:00:04   Two, they're out of sight out of mind,

01:00:06   which is always my problem with dashboard too.

01:00:08   They're just kind of off on the right there.

01:00:10   And the fact is there are good widgets.

01:00:12   There are good widgets from iOS.

01:00:14   there's good stuff on Mac OS.

01:00:17   I have Find My widgets for my family.

01:00:19   So instead of launching Find My and seeing,

01:00:22   you know, is my wife at the store or what's going on,

01:00:25   or is my daughter back home so I can call her

01:00:28   or whatever it is, like I have to swipe

01:00:32   and the little cards are there and it's nice,

01:00:34   but it's in this really not great location.

01:00:36   And I would rather have them in a floating layer

01:00:39   or drop down from the menu bar or on my desktop or whatever.

01:00:43   So some better showcase for macOS widgets, I agree.

01:00:48   - Round two.

01:00:49   - Myke, I'm gonna do it.

01:00:51   - Uh-oh.

01:00:52   - I'm gonna do it.

01:00:53   - What's he gonna do?

01:00:54   - New MacBook Air.

01:00:55   - Oh, okay.

01:00:59   Okay. - New MacBook Air.

01:01:01   - Mad lad.

01:01:02   - Well, I'm worried about the supply chain,

01:01:04   but they've also been trying to ship that product

01:01:06   for like more than six months apparently.

01:01:07   - That's what we've heard, right?

01:01:08   September was the first expected check date.

01:01:11   - Yeah, it's coming up nine months

01:01:12   that they were planning on shipping that product.

01:01:14   It's like is it a developer conference?

01:01:16   - The chip before I built this thing, yeah.

01:01:19   - Is there a developer conference angle to it?

01:01:21   Not really, but it's a big event for them.

01:01:23   Are they ready to ship it?

01:01:25   Maybe, maybe they have been working on building these things

01:01:28   and even though they've got all sorts of supply chain issues

01:01:31   one of the things that they wanna do

01:01:33   is ship a new MacBook Air.

01:01:35   I think it would be a good seller for the fall.

01:01:37   If they are ready, I'm not sure I believe it either,

01:01:42   but they've been trying for so long.

01:01:44   And the stories seem to suggest

01:01:46   that it's basically ready to go.

01:01:48   And that the question is like,

01:01:49   how many of them could they build?

01:01:51   How back ordered is it gonna be?

01:01:53   All of those things are going on.

01:01:55   But I wanna believe, and I also wanna believe

01:01:57   that they really wanna kick off the next era

01:01:58   of Apple Silicon and be able to make a case to developers

01:02:02   about where they're going with Apple Silicon on the Mac,

01:02:05   which the developers care about.

01:02:06   And so even though it's not a developer machine,

01:02:09   it's a MacBook Air.

01:02:12   I'm going to say we're finally going to get a new MacBook Air.

01:02:16   I hope you're right for two reasons.

01:02:18   One, I want colorful laptops in the world, right?

01:02:20   Right.

01:02:21   That's what I just wanted.

01:02:22   Two, I want a hands-on area.

01:02:26   I want to experience the hands-on area at WWDC.

01:02:29   If they have a new MacBook Air, possible.

01:02:32   Yep.

01:02:33   Possible.

01:02:33   They need new products to have hands-on area.

01:02:35   With all the colors.

01:02:36   Then that would be great.

01:02:37   You can go into a little thing, see what they got going on.

01:02:40   I'd be excited about that.

01:02:41   Jason, I'm jumping in with you here.

01:02:44   - Uh-huh.

01:02:45   - New Mac Pro.

01:02:46   - New Mac Pro, yeah.

01:02:48   I was thinking of picking that next.

01:02:50   So, new Mac Pro.

01:02:51   And of course, it may not be anywhere near shipping.

01:02:55   - No, no way.

01:02:56   - They just need to announce it.

01:02:57   - Yeah.

01:02:58   Look, please fuck up as well.

01:02:59   There's so much precedent for this.

01:03:00   Like, there's so much precedent for this.

01:03:02   To me, this feels like,

01:03:04   to me, it feels like the most locked hardware

01:03:07   because they can,

01:03:09   The Mac Pro is unlike anything that they do in the Mac space.

01:03:12   They can just-- they can talk about this thing six months

01:03:15   before they ship it, and it doesn't matter.

01:03:18   And we know it exists because they told us it does.

01:03:23   And I feel like they mentioned it three months ago.

01:03:26   For them to then wait six months maybe before they mention it

01:03:30   again would be odd, right?

01:03:31   Like going all the way out to the fall.

01:03:34   This is the audience for the Mac Pro.

01:03:36   They're probably even less likely to buy it now

01:03:39   the studio exists, but that, oh boy, developers,

01:03:41   do they love powerful Macs, you know what I mean?

01:03:44   You just tell them there's a powerful Mac there

01:03:47   and they're gonna go wild for it.

01:03:48   So I imagine new Mac Pro,

01:03:51   that's what I think we're gonna get announced at WWDC.

01:03:54   - Maybe so, maybe so.

01:03:56   That would be nice.

01:03:57   I am gonna go also with, it's kind of something I want,

01:04:02   but it's also, I feel like,

01:04:03   a logical next narrative step for them.

01:04:06   Last year they announced that Shortcuts

01:04:07   was the future of automation on Mac OS.

01:04:10   And so I'm going to say improvements to shortcuts for Mac

01:04:14   are highlighted at some point.

01:04:16   So the idea there is, you know, last year

01:04:18   we introduced shortcuts on the Mac and it's great.

01:04:20   And we got a bunch of, I mean,

01:04:21   even if it's literally Craig Federighi saying,

01:04:23   and we got a bunch of Mac improvements this year,

01:04:26   that would count, right?

01:04:27   I'm just, that's what I'm envisioning

01:04:29   is a little bit of a check-in on the fact that last year

01:04:31   they did shortcuts on the Mac.

01:04:33   And this year they're doing more

01:04:35   or improving it in some way.

01:04:37   And if they talk about shortcuts, improvements on iOS,

01:04:42   and they don't mention the Mac, then it doesn't count.

01:04:45   But I think they're gonna wanna check in on the Mac.

01:04:48   In fact, it wouldn't surprise me

01:04:50   if they had a Mac shortcuts segment,

01:04:54   like in the Macs segment,

01:04:56   especially since, as we've said, a lot of this stuff,

01:04:59   one of their challenges when they have a lot of things

01:05:00   on all their platforms is when do you announce it?

01:05:03   - Yeah.

01:05:03   The Mac segment could literally be,

01:05:05   you've seen all the features of Mac

01:05:07   because they were also the features of iOS.

01:05:09   So there's nothing new here.

01:05:11   So you hold some things back.

01:05:12   So maybe the shortcut story gets told in the Mac segment.

01:05:15   They say, and this is also true in iOS,

01:05:17   but we made some improvements here.

01:05:19   I don't even know what those improvements are.

01:05:20   There's a lot of things that could improve,

01:05:22   but I wanna predict

01:05:24   that they're gonna touch base on shortcuts.

01:05:26   - This was gonna be my next pick,

01:05:28   basically for some of the reasons you mentioned.

01:05:30   One, which is that like it was a bit of a hit, right?

01:05:33   I think maybe shortcuts for Mac may have surprised Apple.

01:05:36   People have been really excited about it.

01:05:38   It had a rocky start, but where we are today,

01:05:41   the community loves it.

01:05:42   And I think that the shortcuts team clearly show

01:05:44   they don't stop working,

01:05:46   and I imagine they've got some stuff.

01:05:48   But I mean, shortcuts has had improvements every single year

01:05:51   is unlike basically anything else Apple does.

01:05:54   As it changes every year, sometimes they're good,

01:05:57   sometimes they're bad,

01:05:58   sometimes they work it out along the way.

01:05:59   But every year since they joined,

01:06:01   since Shortcuts was announced,

01:06:03   there are way better new stuff in.

01:06:05   I cannot imagine Shortcuts improvements

01:06:10   finding their way into the iOS portion either,

01:06:13   especially because now it is an easy story

01:06:16   in the Mac segment.

01:06:17   - Yeah.

01:06:18   - This is a perfect place for it.

01:06:19   - Unless it's like the keyboard shortcuts thing,

01:06:21   but even there, I think they could say,

01:06:23   and you know, by the way, everybody really loves

01:06:25   that we added keyboard shortcuts support to the Mac.

01:06:28   So we also put it in iOS,

01:06:30   but they could still do that in the Mac part

01:06:31   of the presentation.

01:06:33   - I think this makes a lot of sense

01:06:35   'cause there is definitely room for them to continue

01:06:38   with shortcuts for the Mac

01:06:39   and I expect if they're gonna do it,

01:06:41   they're gonna talk about it here.

01:06:43   All right, so this is the last pick in the Mac round.

01:06:46   So like what I'm torn with right now

01:06:48   is whether I make a software pick or a hardware pick.

01:06:52   My concern with a hardware pick is

01:06:54   if there's no hardware at all,

01:06:56   - Yeah, you're doubling down.

01:06:57   - I'm kind of wrecked, right?

01:06:58   which is a possibility.

01:07:01   So I'm gonna go back to the Sheriff.

01:07:04   I think one of the only things that Mark Gurman mentioned

01:07:08   about macOS in his newsletter

01:07:11   was a redesign of System Preferences.

01:07:14   - Oh yeah, Settings app.

01:07:14   - Basically to make it the Settings app.

01:07:17   And that is much needed 'cause System Preferences

01:07:21   is only becoming more and more complicated

01:07:24   to try and work out where things live.

01:07:26   You know, I love--

01:07:28   - It looks untouched since the beginning of Mac OS X.

01:07:32   - Well, except when they added all the weird icons

01:07:34   (laughs)

01:07:35   a few years ago.

01:07:36   - Well, yeah, but the whole premise of it is this app

01:07:38   that's got all the icons there and you click

01:07:41   and then it opens a pane and all of that.

01:07:43   It's like, it's been there a long time

01:07:48   and a new take on it would be welcome.

01:07:52   - I just would, you know, settings and it's like,

01:07:54   I don't know, looks more like iOS, but just re kind of,

01:07:57   move stuff around, put some new stuff in there,

01:08:00   make it fresh, you know, that's what I would love to see.

01:08:03   And I almost, I was kind of toying with this a little bit

01:08:06   of like, if they did that, would they even show it?

01:08:10   Like, is it worth showing?

01:08:12   And then I'm like, I think that would kind of play

01:08:15   to the crowd.

01:08:16   - Yeah.

01:08:17   - You know?

01:08:18   - I think that's exactly it.

01:08:19   I can see Craig Federighi smiling and being like,

01:08:21   "Oh, we got you here."

01:08:23   - Look at this, he loves some sense.

01:08:25   - Mm-hmm.

01:08:26   You bunch of nerds.

01:08:27   - Yep, exactly.

01:08:28   - I don't think he'll say that, but if he did--

01:08:30   - Probably, it's implied strongly though.

01:08:31   - Oh yeah, I would applaud him.

01:08:33   All right, so that's Mac, that's the Mac rounds.

01:08:37   That's all taken care of.

01:08:39   - Yep.

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01:10:11   So we are now in the everything else round.

01:10:13   A round that is increasingly growing.

01:10:18   The other round includes, watchOS, tvOS, services, headset, other hardware and miscellaneous

01:10:27   stagecraft picks.

01:10:30   This year we have increased the amount of picks we are doing here than years previous.

01:10:34   So there is going to be 5 rounds.

01:10:37   At this point honestly without Mac hardware MacOS could fit in here.

01:10:42   So who knows how this is going to shake out over the next few years.

01:10:46   Things kind of rebalance themselves maybe.

01:10:48   we're in the everything else round and Jason, it's over to you for your first pick.

01:10:52   Myke, I'm going with a stagecraft pick first because sometimes I like playing

01:10:56   to win and so I'm gonna pick under everything else, Craig Federighi appears.

01:11:01   Darn it, Jason Snow!

01:11:03   You think he'll be there? Will Craig be there? I hope so, I hope so.

01:11:11   Honestly, out of everyone else, I could imagine Tim taking the week off, you know Craig Federighi?

01:11:18   - No way, yeah, you got that.

01:11:21   - Okay, there's my advantage, I guess, is going first.

01:11:25   Is that one, I almost thought, I mean, you could argue

01:11:29   it's like a not, it's so obvious that it shouldn't be

01:11:31   on the list, but you put it on the list

01:11:33   and it was on the list.

01:11:34   - Come on, you know, you never know, you never know,

01:11:37   but this is how it goes.

01:11:39   - But it's probably gonna be there.

01:11:41   - All right, my first pick then,

01:11:42   some portion of the program is live.

01:11:45   - All right, that's a good one.

01:11:47   The idea here is they're doing this event

01:11:50   and they're inviting developers.

01:11:51   And again, it could literally be like, you know,

01:11:53   the Olympics where they like show

01:11:55   the people cheering back home.

01:11:57   - The minimum it's that, right?

01:11:59   They have like a shot showing people

01:12:02   like as the opening or something, right?

01:12:05   I could imagine, 'cause you know how,

01:12:06   you know how they love this kind of stuff.

01:12:08   They've got like a prerecorded drone

01:12:11   and it like goes through a tunnel

01:12:13   and it comes out and it's live, you know?

01:12:16   'cause they're like, "Yeah, we got you," you know?

01:12:17   Like some little fun thing.

01:12:20   But if they don't do this, that would be wild to me.

01:12:23   And I don't know what you think,

01:12:24   but like there is a part of me that's like,

01:12:27   "Well, what if they just do the whole thing on stage

01:12:31   in front of an audience, like the whole thing?"

01:12:34   - They just invited us all there to sit and watch a video

01:12:39   with nothing even indicating that we're there.

01:12:41   It seems weird, right?

01:12:45   but they could do it, it's possible.

01:12:46   - No, I mean, like what if they did the whole thing

01:12:49   like they used to?

01:12:50   - Oh, the whole thing live, oh yeah.

01:12:52   I think that is possible.

01:12:53   I think that's possible.

01:12:54   I think it's gonna rely on more taped stuff,

01:12:57   but I think it's possible that they'll have,

01:13:00   you know, the simplest version is Tim beginning and end

01:13:04   and then there's a pre-taped thing in the middle.

01:13:06   They could break it up into segments

01:13:08   and have Craig come on stage and then do his,

01:13:12   'cause if you think about the way

01:13:13   those things are structured, right,

01:13:14   They're all like nested parentheses.

01:13:16   So there's like, there's Tim,

01:13:17   and then you go to the Craig segment.

01:13:21   And then Craig will give an overview

01:13:23   and then throw it to the individual people.

01:13:25   Well, I could see a scenario where the Tim segment

01:13:27   and the Craig segment are there

01:13:29   and the Jeff Williams segment is there, right?

01:13:31   But when they throw it to other people,

01:13:33   the other people are all in a pre-taped segment.

01:13:36   They could also just do the whole thing live.

01:13:37   Yeah, but you know, will they?

01:13:39   I don't know, I don't know.

01:13:40   Probably not, but you never know.

01:13:42   - 'Cause there is this thing I've been thinking about,

01:13:44   They have an audience.

01:13:45   We don't know how big this audience is,

01:13:47   but it seems like the audience is growing.

01:13:49   - Right, we don't know how big it is,

01:13:50   we don't know where it'll be, we don't know nothing.

01:13:53   - But as well as inviting media,

01:13:55   and we don't know, genuinely do not know

01:13:57   if we will be in the same place that the developers are,

01:13:59   I have no idea, nobody knows right now.

01:14:03   But it seems like they have been increasing

01:14:04   the amount of developers that they have been inviting.

01:14:07   It seems like they keep giving out invites.

01:14:09   Now whether they're just filling in people

01:14:11   who can't make it, I don't know,

01:14:12   but there seems to have been multiple rounds.

01:14:13   It got some extra folding chairs for the rainbow stage.

01:14:16   - There's something to be said

01:14:17   that you're doing a presentation, right?

01:14:20   - Yeah.

01:14:20   - Like maybe you want people to cheer

01:14:23   like they always have done.

01:14:24   - Yeah, well, that was always my argument.

01:14:26   When we were talking about WWDC coming back,

01:14:29   one of the arguments that I made was

01:14:31   maybe they'll just do a keynote as a media event.

01:14:35   They'll invite some developers.

01:14:36   It's very much like what we're seeing here.

01:14:38   They'll invite media and they'll invite some developers

01:14:40   and maybe they'll put them in the Steve Jobs theater.

01:14:42   That might not happen this time,

01:14:44   but I think that that would be where it's heading.

01:14:46   And like, why do that?

01:14:47   Well, because not only do you have some media there

01:14:49   who can do the hands-on,

01:14:51   but you have developers there who will cheer,

01:14:54   and you're now live in front of a studio audience,

01:14:57   and that has a stagecraft bonus, right?

01:15:00   That is a benefit to have reaction shots from developers,

01:15:04   and cheering from developers,

01:15:05   and all of those things that you wanna show off.

01:15:08   And it's your hand-picked developers, right?

01:15:10   Like, yeah, there's a lot of advantages to doing that

01:15:15   as a live event, even if you try to keep the best

01:15:18   of the prerecorded.

01:15:19   - And I imagine, I can imagine them not always doing this,

01:15:23   like the iPhone events do, or like just product events

01:15:27   where they just invite media.

01:15:28   Just have the media sit in a room and watch the screen

01:15:30   and then go to the hands-on.

01:15:31   But WWDC, I could imagine them doing a full live

01:15:35   or more hybrid approach because they have an audience.

01:15:37   Like, I would never have suggested this

01:15:39   if there was no audience, right?

01:15:41   That they would be doing it live.

01:15:43   'Cause what would be the point?

01:15:45   But we'll see.

01:15:46   We'll show round two.

01:15:47   We'll know in a week.

01:15:49   - I guess we will, 'cause we'll be there.

01:15:52   I am gonna go with, again, based on a Mark Gurman rumor,

01:15:58   and it's also something I wanna have come true.

01:16:01   I'm gonna go with old watch faces upgraded.

01:16:07   - Can I make my pick?

01:16:09   - Yeah.

01:16:10   - New watch faces.

01:16:12   (laughing)

01:16:13   - It's the watch round, guys.

01:16:14   - Now here's the issue, I see the same issue for both of us

01:16:17   is like, they do not need to do this as part of the BBC.

01:16:20   Like both of these things come in September, but--

01:16:23   - But it's watchOS.

01:16:24   - But it's watchOS, what else has it got?

01:16:26   What else has it got, you know, watch faces?

01:16:29   - Yeah, and so one of the rumors is,

01:16:31   what Mark Gurman reported was that

01:16:33   they were going to revisit some old watch faces

01:16:38   and update them.

01:16:40   And as a user of some old watch faces, like modular,

01:16:44   one of the things that kills me about it,

01:16:48   or sorry, utility is the one that I really like, utility,

01:16:51   is that it's basically still designed

01:16:52   for the original Apple Watch.

01:16:54   It's gotten a little bit bigger,

01:16:55   but like it doesn't use any of the new complication styles

01:16:58   that they've introduced over the last five years

01:17:00   or whatever, it's still living in the past.

01:17:02   And what I wanna believe, for both of our sakes

01:17:07   and for our picks' sakes, is that the new version of watchOS

01:17:11   is going to have an upgrade to watch face technology,

01:17:15   probably including complications,

01:17:17   and that they're gonna get everything

01:17:19   on the new whatever it is, right?

01:17:21   And like now they're all using this format,

01:17:25   now they all use these complications,

01:17:27   now there are, you know,

01:17:28   and because really the face picker and all that,

01:17:31   it's evolved a little bit,

01:17:33   but it feels very much like it's still evolving

01:17:35   the first version of it.

01:17:36   and I wonder if they'll do a new take that will encompass new faces and upgrading the

01:17:41   old faces to be more modern.

01:17:44   I think they'll do something.

01:17:46   But if they literally, if they put up one of those old watch faces and it's got a complication

01:17:50   style that is not currently supported, that's what I'm talking about here.

01:17:53   Yeah, for sure.

01:17:54   I mean, and they've had a combo above, right?

01:17:56   They've done new watch faces at WWDC, they've done, and then they've also had some in September,

01:18:02   we'll see.

01:18:04   I think the only wrinkle I could imagine for your pick here

01:18:07   is if like there's some kind of design change

01:18:10   to the Apple Watch again,

01:18:11   and they upgrade the old watch faces for that,

01:18:14   so they wouldn't want to show it too soon.

01:18:16   But I don't know. - Possible.

01:18:18   - But we'll see.

01:18:19   - I'm gonna stick, Myke, with watchOS.

01:18:21   We're just gonna keep it rolling here.

01:18:23   Hard to believe that we're doing this, but we're doing it.

01:18:25   - Especially considering how little time

01:18:26   watchOS got last year, right?

01:18:28   - I know. - It was,

01:18:29   I don't even think it really was in the Kino at all.

01:18:31   - But this is like one of those bread and butter things,

01:18:33   which is a new health focused app in watchOS.

01:18:36   I don't know even what it is,

01:18:37   but they always like to add health features to watchOS.

01:18:41   So let's throw it in.

01:18:43   I'm willing to take the risk.

01:18:45   - If they're gonna do something to it,

01:18:47   that's always a solid bet, right?

01:18:49   - Unless there's a new sensor on a watch in the fall

01:18:52   that they save it for,

01:18:53   but they just, they really like doing this.

01:18:55   They really like adding some app to do something.

01:18:58   And you know, watchOS apps aren't exactly heavy lifting.

01:19:00   They can add a fairly basic new thing and say,

01:19:03   "Look, we added maybe more than one.

01:19:06   They added this and this, and isn't that great?"

01:19:08   And we'll be like, "Okay, that's a new health-focused app.

01:19:10   That's what the product is for."

01:19:12   - Last year, they didn't add a new app,

01:19:15   but they updated one.

01:19:16   They had updated the Breathe app to include mindfulness.

01:19:20   - Yes, and changed its name.

01:19:22   - I think it's still called Breathe, isn't it?

01:19:24   - No, it's Mindfulness now.

01:19:25   - Oh, okay, well, there you go.

01:19:27   Yeah, so that would be the new app, right?

01:19:29   That would have worked for you.

01:19:31   My third pick, I'm doubling down on stagecraft.

01:19:36   - Okay.

01:19:38   - And I'm gonna say that Tim Cook presents

01:19:40   in front of an audience.

01:19:42   - Okay.

01:19:43   - This is what I consider to be the minimum amount,

01:19:47   which is that Tim does his good morning,

01:19:50   so excited for you to be here today.

01:19:51   You know, he stops for five minutes for applause

01:19:53   'cause it will be raucous applause.

01:19:55   And he says how happy he is for everyone to be here

01:19:59   and he's so excited to see developers here at Apple Park.

01:20:04   We're so happy to welcome you all here,

01:20:06   you know, that kind of stuff.

01:20:06   We've got a great week planned for you all

01:20:09   and for developers watching live at home, you know?

01:20:13   And then he comes out at the end and he's like,

01:20:15   "Wasn't that great?

01:20:17   We can't wait to see what you do with it."

01:20:18   Right?

01:20:19   That feels like the minimum part.

01:20:21   - I agree.

01:20:22   I agree.

01:20:23   And Zach pointed out,

01:20:24   Tim Cook presenting as he did last year

01:20:26   in front of an audience of Memojis does not count.

01:20:29   If they do that this year, what are they doing?

01:20:31   You know what I mean?

01:20:32   Like you've got actual people that know.

01:20:34   This is an audience of human beings.

01:20:36   - Yeah.

01:20:37   I'm gonna, 'cause you're picking up

01:20:40   some potentially easy wins here,

01:20:42   I'm gonna throw in a view of the Steve Jobs Theater,

01:20:45   including lobby and entry level.

01:20:47   Now this is important because,

01:20:49   is the presentation gonna be in the Steve Jobs Theater?

01:20:52   Maybe, but they also use the big lobby area

01:20:57   for an entry-level area for demos in their videos.

01:21:00   - So we need to see at least the lobby and entry

01:21:03   for this to be correct?

01:21:05   Is that what you're saying?

01:21:06   - It just needs to be, yeah,

01:21:07   something in that Steve Jobs Theater,

01:21:07   the big round building.

01:21:08   Now they usually do a prerecorded presentation from the,

01:21:12   because they built that whole building

01:21:13   and during the pandemic, there's been nobody in it, right?

01:21:16   So even if they don't use the theater,

01:21:18   if they use the lobby or entry level, that will work.

01:21:23   One of those big circular spaces.

01:21:24   There's the one with the two elevators and the stairs,

01:21:27   and then there's the top level

01:21:28   that's just the big round thing with the windows looking out.

01:21:31   Any of those, including the inside, like theater portion,

01:21:35   but just something in the Steve Jobs Theater.

01:21:36   - I've changed this pick,

01:21:38   for you to make it a bit more simple,

01:21:39   inside view of the Steve Jobs Theater.

01:21:41   - Okay. - That could be any part of it.

01:21:42   - But it could be any part of it.

01:21:43   - We know that, like, that the Steve Jobs Theater

01:21:45   is that entire building.

01:21:46   - Whole building.

01:21:47   - So if anybody presents anything

01:21:48   from inside of anywhere, we'll know.

01:21:52   - Yep. - And that will count.

01:21:53   And that's a good pick,

01:21:53   because if they do the prerecorded video, they'll do it.

01:21:58   If they do a presentation from in there, they'll do it.

01:22:00   But I don't know. - I think so.

01:22:02   - It would be odd to present from inside

01:22:04   of the Steve Jobs Theater if everyone's outside,

01:22:06   but we'll find out.

01:22:08   - All right.

01:22:09   - All right, I'm putting my,

01:22:12   I'm gonna put my flag in the ground.

01:22:15   No AR or VR hardware announced or preannounced.

01:22:22   (whistles)

01:22:24   All right.

01:22:25   It's what we call a buzzkill pick, but-

01:22:28   - I don't think it's happening.

01:22:29   - It's consistent with your other thing,

01:22:30   which is Apple's not gonna announce the headset.

01:22:32   They're not gonna pre-announce anything about it.

01:22:34   They will do the major head fake,

01:22:36   you wink, wink, nudge, nudge, gesture thing

01:22:38   with AR and VR features in iOS,

01:22:40   but they're just not gonna talk about it.

01:22:43   - Now this pick doesn't include the operating system, right?

01:22:45   This is the hardware.

01:22:46   However, I also think it's the same,

01:22:47   but it's not in my pick.

01:22:49   - I think it's the same because

01:22:51   You know, you're picking a different version of a pick I put in there that I'm still tempted

01:22:59   to pick, but it's Apple acknowledges existence of headset but doesn't announce headset, which

01:23:05   is a similar thing, which is they could say reality OS for a forthcoming product that

01:23:11   we're not going to announce today.

01:23:12   - It's just not happening in my opinion.

01:23:14   None of it is.

01:23:15   Like I just, they don't need to do it now.

01:23:18   They just don't, right?

01:23:19   in my opinion it just seems like it's too early and I know there's been lots of stories about

01:23:24   trademark filings and that kind of stuff but I've seen some reports saying that this is purely

01:23:28   coincidental because trademarks have to be filed six months in advance of a product in certain

01:23:33   markets etc etc. Nevertheless there is smoke here but that fire is far away like that fire is down

01:23:43   the road, right? We're gonna get to it later on. There's enough stuff at WWDC. I don't see AR/VR

01:23:51   hardware being announced here. Honestly, the only way I see that is if they have very little for

01:23:58   their other platforms, and that doesn't seem likely to me. I think you could, you're gonna,

01:24:03   when they want to show this up, they're gonna spend a lot of time on it, and I don't think

01:24:07   that's time they're gonna give in full next Monday. It's a tough one because this has been,

01:24:12   You know, the reports are that they were originally planning on announcing it at WWDC.

01:24:17   There's a lot of reasons why you would, because it's a developer message.

01:24:20   You want to get the developers hyped about it.

01:24:22   And they have people there, right? Like, this is one of the things I was saying,

01:24:25   "Oh, it's definitely not going to happen if they don't have people." Well, it turns out not.

01:24:28   They have media going. That was what I said was needed. But I still don't think it's happening.

01:24:33   Yeah. It's, uh, this is so tough, because I honestly don't know. I think there are lots

01:24:39   of scenarios where they would announce it, but there are also a lot of reports that it's just

01:24:42   not far enough along for them to announce it. So, yeah. Yeah, we'll see. It's a tough one because

01:24:53   it's the--look, you get all those developers together, it's the elephant in the room, right?

01:24:58   Like, everybody knows. Everybody who's an Apple platform developer is like, "There's gonna be a

01:25:01   headset. I'm gonna have to figure out what I'm doing with that." But are they gonna do that at

01:25:05   at this event on top of everything else.

01:25:09   All right, I guess it's my pick.

01:25:10   I guess I can't avoid it anymore.

01:25:12   A service is one that I like,

01:25:15   but I don't think I wanna go with it

01:25:17   because they announced service changes at weird times

01:25:22   and this doesn't seem like the right time to do that.

01:25:24   Okay, I'm gonna wimp out

01:25:27   and rather than making the bold pick of,

01:25:29   which I kinda wanna make,

01:25:30   which is Apple acknowledges the headset exists,

01:25:34   but doesn't announce it,

01:25:34   which would be such a power move.

01:25:38   I'm gonna go with rules for the TV app changed

01:25:42   to accommodate more services.

01:25:44   - I would love this.

01:25:46   - This is one that you, I think put in there,

01:25:48   but it's the idea here is, Apple has had some challenges,

01:25:53   especially with Netflix in terms of how the TV app works

01:25:56   and they want it to be a central thing.

01:25:58   So maybe if there's a TVOS announcement,

01:26:00   which there's gotta be,

01:26:01   that they will change the TV app

01:26:04   with the goal of accommodating more services.

01:26:07   I don't know what form this takes,

01:26:09   but actually, you know what?

01:26:11   I'm going to back off of it

01:26:12   'cause I'm not sure I want to be that specific.

01:26:14   There is another item on our list here

01:26:16   that's even vaguer than that,

01:26:20   which is just the TVO app is redesigned.

01:26:22   Let's go with that one, TVO app.

01:26:23   - Oh, look, this is,

01:26:24   Jason has worked on the unthinkable

01:26:26   and has pulled, has set a pick and rejected that.

01:26:31   - And I yoink, it's, you know,

01:26:32   I'm gonna just go with a broader TV app pick.

01:26:35   Changes to the TV app, TV app redesigned on TV OS.

01:26:38   I hope it includes rule changes that enable,

01:26:42   we had one item on our little list that is like,

01:26:43   they make a deal with Netflix to put Netflix in the TV app.

01:26:47   I'm not picking that

01:26:48   'cause I don't really wanna believe it,

01:26:49   but I mean, I want it to happen,

01:26:51   but I don't think it's gonna happen.

01:26:52   Anyway, TV app redesigned on TV OS.

01:26:54   We'll just go with that.

01:26:55   - I'd love that 'cause I like TV app.

01:26:58   I want TV app to get better.

01:27:00   My final pick, I'm not gonna do what you did.

01:27:02   I'm not gonna say something, change my mind last minute.

01:27:05   I'm just gonna dive in and go for it.

01:27:07   - Well, you don't know until you read it halfway through

01:27:10   and then we'll see.

01:27:11   - And now you, oh, I don't like that you said that, mate.

01:27:14   (laughing)

01:27:16   All right, now I'm just gonna go for it.

01:27:18   A new way to access favorite apps in watchOS.

01:27:21   - I had this on my list.

01:27:22   I think it's a pretty good idea.

01:27:24   I don't know where it came from, but it's a good idea.

01:27:26   - It came from me pressing that side button

01:27:29   and always being unhappy about the things that are in there.

01:27:32   'Cause it's never, it's not in any set order.

01:27:34   I used to like it more

01:27:36   when it was a set order of applications.

01:27:39   You just put your favorites in there.

01:27:41   And now, I don't know if it's just a set

01:27:42   and you can change, maybe you should check that,

01:27:44   but now I have like apps most recently used,

01:27:46   like as a multitasking view.

01:27:48   And I kind of don't need that on my Apple Watch.

01:27:51   I also could imagine that they just redo,

01:27:54   this kind of fits in a couple of places for me.

01:27:55   This could just, they could redo

01:27:57   way you actually select applications or all on the Apple Watch, you know, like they have

01:28:00   either that list or the honeycomb right now, there's definitely better ways to do that.

01:28:05   Thank you, Jason, in Discord for confirming it is a setting for the watch. I can still

01:28:09   do favorites. I'm going to change that. I hadn't thought of that. Nevertheless, selecting

01:28:14   apps on the Apple Watch, not a great experience.

01:28:17   I agree.

01:28:18   And I would like to see that changed.

01:28:20   It's a mess. It's a mess. So let's do it. Great. Love it.

01:28:27   - So that is the end of the everything else round.

01:28:31   - Right.

01:28:32   - We have a bonus round. - But wait.

01:28:34   Yes, this is like a little draft within a draft.

01:28:37   Each of us is going to pick potential names for macOS.

01:28:43   We're gonna pick two each.

01:28:46   - Okay.

01:28:47   - And...

01:28:50   - There's a point on offer for the person who gets it right.

01:28:52   - One point if somebody gets it right.

01:28:54   Obviously only one thing can be correct.

01:28:57   So with my first pick, I just want to state this again,

01:29:04   we pre-chose this because this was,

01:29:06   we had originally some options in the macOS round

01:29:09   and Jason wanted to do this as a bonus round.

01:29:12   And I said, I want you to write all the names

01:29:17   you might think it could possibly be

01:29:19   because you are Californian and I'm not Californian.

01:29:22   Like there are places in this list

01:29:23   I've literally never heard of them.

01:29:25   So that's how we're working this out.

01:29:29   This is, I guess, somewhat similar to the draft

01:29:31   that the colors are.

01:29:33   We're both picking some stuff to each,

01:29:36   and if one of us gets it right, they get a point.

01:29:39   - Yeah, it's a bonus point

01:29:40   if you correctly predict the name of macOS.

01:29:43   I am going to start by going completely outside

01:29:47   of California and picking,

01:29:49   they name it macOS 16, and it has no other name.

01:29:52   They sync it up.

01:29:56   Really?

01:29:57   You think they could do that?

01:29:58   I think they could.

01:29:59   I think they could do it.

01:30:00   Then that's jumping three versions, right?

01:30:03   It is.

01:30:04   It's jumping three versions.

01:30:05   Okay.

01:30:06   I don't think they're going to do this.

01:30:08   Oh, well, I'm glad I have another pick then.

01:30:10   I just wanted to cover that one.

01:30:12   Why do you think they would do this?

01:30:13   I think, well, this is part of my ongoing frustration with Apple's naming because they

01:30:18   also have all those numbered iPhones and the iPhone numbers are different than the iOS

01:30:21   which is also bad. And then you've got macOS, which has a different number, but also a name.

01:30:25   So I think that I'm envisioning a scenario where they decide to move macOS in lockstep with iOS

01:30:31   and iPadOS. And why does macOS have a cute name when the other ones don't? And they just say,

01:30:37   "Nope, we're going to be boring from now on. Every year, we'll increment by one,

01:30:40   starting with 16 all around." That's it. Why is macOS different? It's the idea that like,

01:30:47   "Oh, we allow macOS to be fun and quirky and have a nickname." And maybe they stop.

01:30:52   I mean, I wouldn't mind it, personally, because I can never remember the names of macOS versions.

01:30:59   Right. I mean, I could have just picked a Spinal Tap appearance again, but I didn't.

01:31:02   I am going with a name, though. And I'm going with a name that I think would be kind of nice,

01:31:07   and I'd like it, macOS Tahoe. Tahoe! I did put that in there.

01:31:12   So, California geography topic.

01:31:16   Apple recently has been sticking to the coast.

01:31:20   So we got Catalina, which is an island

01:31:23   in Southern California.

01:31:24   We got Big Sur, which is on the coast,

01:31:26   and then just up from Big Sur to Monterey.

01:31:29   So coastal names are interesting.

01:31:32   However, Lake Tahoe is a classic.

01:31:35   It's a great location.

01:31:38   It's a beautiful, natural place name.

01:31:41   It's a single word that I think is fairly clear

01:31:46   about how to pronounce it and say it.

01:31:48   But what I've learned about all these California names

01:31:50   is that I assume everybody knows how to pronounce them

01:31:53   and I'm wrong.

01:31:55   So we'll see.

01:31:56   I think Tahoe is a great choice

01:31:58   because it would make for some beautiful wallpapers,

01:32:02   you know, great pictures of Lake Tahoe

01:32:04   and the surrounding kind of the mountains

01:32:06   and the trees and everything.

01:32:08   And they haven't used it yet.

01:32:10   So I like it.

01:32:12   Lake Tahoe is beautiful.

01:32:14   - What's your next pick?

01:32:15   - I'm gonna go with Sequoia,

01:32:18   which is the name of a tall tree and also a national park.

01:32:22   - The reason this film makes me laugh is

01:32:25   there is also spelling issues

01:32:29   with some of these names they come up with.

01:32:31   Sequoia is one of them because it's like,

01:32:34   what is going on back there?

01:32:36   S-E-Q-U-O-I-A.

01:32:40   What is happening at the end of that word?

01:32:42   Sounds great, love the sound of it.

01:32:44   Sequoia, beautiful, sounds wonderful.

01:32:46   - It's got all the vowels in it.

01:32:47   - It's got all, it's basically all of them, right?

01:32:50   - It is all of them, it has all the vowels in it.

01:32:52   - Sometimes why, you know what I mean?

01:32:54   - Well, yeah, but it's, well, maybe sometimes why's

01:32:56   in Sequoia, but it's not right now.

01:32:58   - Well, why is in Sequoia?

01:33:00   I don't know, why is you in Sequoia, you know?

01:33:04   All right, my one I'm gonna pick here.

01:33:06   I'm going with a different approach

01:33:08   because I think it would be kind of cool

01:33:10   and would allow them to bridge into something else.

01:33:13   macOS Golden Gate.

01:33:15   - Ah, yes.

01:33:16   I just put that in there this morning and you went with it.

01:33:18   - I like it a lot.

01:33:19   - You took the bait. - I like that as a name

01:33:20   a lot.

01:33:21   I took the gate bait.

01:33:22   You know, I think it's fun.

01:33:23   I love that as a name.

01:33:25   It is the name of a park, right?

01:33:27   But it's also the name of the bridge.

01:33:28   And similarly, beautiful desktop wallpapers.

01:33:32   And I think it would be fun if they're gonna keep

01:33:34   to the California trend, which I do actually encourage,

01:33:36   they don't just do like, just places, you know,

01:33:41   like the idea of Golden Gate, right,

01:33:42   it's got a little bit more to it.

01:33:44   And I think that would be kind of fun

01:33:46   if they went in that direction,

01:33:47   'cause they could do other fun stuff as well in the future.

01:33:51   - Yeah, it says California, it does reference the bridge,

01:33:53   but also the geographic feature of the Golden Gate

01:33:54   that is the way into San Francisco Bay.

01:33:57   It would be them going up the coast,

01:34:00   as they've been doing for the last couple of releases.

01:34:02   So I think that that's interesting.

01:34:03   We have a bunch more, but we're just gonna pick those.

01:34:06   So we'll see if we hit the lottery with any of those

01:34:10   or if it's something completely different,

01:34:12   which it usually is.

01:34:12   I don't think we've ever successfully predicted

01:34:15   what macOS is gonna be called.

01:34:16   It's one of the true mysteries of the WWDC keynote.

01:34:21   - Yep.

01:34:22   - And they play it as one, right?

01:34:23   They've done that joke a bunch in the past.

01:34:25   - Yep, ever since the macOS weed joke,

01:34:28   it's been since then.

01:34:29   - That is the draft.

01:34:32   If you want to score along with us,

01:34:35   you got to upgrade dot cards.

01:34:37   I think it will be unprecedented as me and Jason

01:34:39   will be able to look at each other next week

01:34:42   if all goes well and look into each other's eyes

01:34:45   and see the moment when somebody could win or lose

01:34:48   and that could be fun.

01:34:49   That could be fun.

01:34:51   As we mentioned, we will be recording and streaming

01:34:54   as soon as we can after the keynote next week.

01:34:57   So keep it locked to Twitter

01:34:59   and you will get information from us.

01:35:01   You can follow the show's account here @_upgradefm,

01:35:06   but we'll also be retweeting that too,

01:35:07   so you'll be able to find it from our own Twitter accounts.

01:35:09   I'm @imike, Jason is @jasonel.

01:35:11   Thank you so much for checking out this episode,

01:35:14   and I'm really excited for next year's episode

01:35:17   for so many reasons, but I'm always looking forward to WWDC,

01:35:20   and I'm expecting and hoping for great things.

01:35:23   - And we'll be back in person for the first time in years.

01:35:26   - It's gonna be so much fun, I cannot wait for it.

01:35:29   It's gonna be a real interesting vibe next week.

01:35:31   really looking forward to. If you would like to find out more information about the show,

01:35:36   you can go to reload.fm/upgrade. This episode number is 409. We have information there.

01:35:41   You can, at that page, you can sign up to become a member and support the show or you

01:35:45   can go to getupgradeplus.com and you will get longer ad-free versions of every episode

01:35:49   of Upgrade, including this one and including the next one too. You know, imagine the kind

01:35:54   of fun stuff we might be talking about when we're in person again for the first time next

01:35:58   week.

01:36:21   [Music]