402: Very Important Developers


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 402. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14   Electric, Capital One, and Trade. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:19   Hi, Jason.

00:00:20   Hi, Myke.

00:00:21   Happy Monday.

00:00:22   Yeah, happy. Happy Monday. Happy new week.

00:00:24   Um, spring break is over here. Spring break.

00:00:29   Over. Back to school. Got two months of school left before the last of my children graduates

00:00:38   and exits the local school system. Kind of hard to believe, but we're getting there. And of course,

00:00:44   that's WWDC week because it always is. It literally always, all graduations must occur during

00:00:52   the developer conference. So it's a rule. I have a #snowtalk question for you from Bronts

00:00:58   who wants to know, Jason, what is your favorite ride

00:01:00   at Disneyland?

00:01:01   - Wow.

00:01:02   - When was the last time you went to Disney?

00:01:04   - We went on like a couple days before New Year's

00:01:09   in like, God, how old were the kids then?

00:01:14   I wanna say something like 2010.

00:01:17   - Right, so it's been a while.

00:01:19   - It's been a while.

00:01:21   And the funny thing is that Lauren's parents live

00:01:23   15 minutes away.

00:01:26   - Right.

00:01:27   But the challenge is usually when we're down there

00:01:31   is at the peak times, holidays and things.

00:01:35   It's the worst time to go to Disneyland.

00:01:37   But one of these days we'll make an effort

00:01:42   of going down there at some random time.

00:01:45   And maybe I'll get David Sparks to do,

00:01:50   David Sparks just uses it as his office.

00:01:52   He just goes to Star Wars and hangs out.

00:01:55   - There's nobody better to tour you around Disneyland

00:01:57   and the Xbox is we've had that privilege twice.

00:02:00   - I'm gonna have to have David do that

00:02:02   'cause I still haven't seen any of the Star Wars stuff

00:02:03   obviously 'cause it's been 10 years and I haven't been there.

00:02:06   My favorite ride at Disneyland,

00:02:08   knowing now that it's been a while since I've been there,

00:02:11   is I'm gonna say Big Thunder Mountain Railway

00:02:15   just because it's, in terms of,

00:02:18   I'm not a big rollercoaster person,

00:02:20   but in terms of rollercoasters,

00:02:21   I really do prefer the big bank side to side action

00:02:25   to the up and down and, you know, and I am not a fan of the upside down at all, but I

00:02:31   am a fan of the, and the big drops do not please me at all. I find them really unpleasant,

00:02:37   but that one's got a really good mixture of sort of like all the big banking turn things

00:02:42   that are very exciting. Space Mountain is also great. An added benefit being, of course,

00:02:48   it is the "what if we did the roller coaster while we turned out the lights?" That's pretty

00:02:53   - It's pretty good.

00:02:54   That's a great, that's a great, that's a great ride.

00:02:57   I, and, and, you know, we'll see.

00:03:00   I may actually take medication before I go the next time

00:03:03   because sometimes a motion control ride

00:03:05   can make me feel queasy.

00:03:06   - Right.

00:03:07   - Star Tours, I have had good Star Tours experiences

00:03:10   and bad Star Tours experiences.

00:03:12   I mean, nothing like, like really sick,

00:03:15   but like ending up not having as much fun as you might like.

00:03:20   And so I'm a little worried about that

00:03:22   for the other motion control stuff that they've got.

00:03:25   - They seem to lean quite heavily on that

00:03:27   in the more modern rides.

00:03:28   - Yeah, exactly right.

00:03:30   - I will recommend it for you,

00:03:32   especially for the Star Wars stuff.

00:03:33   - I'm just gonna have to take my anti-Vertigo medication

00:03:38   before I go to Disneyland and then it'll be okay.

00:03:44   So yeah, anyway, I've been saying for 20 years, whatever,

00:03:47   Big Thunder is my favorite because it's fun.

00:03:50   You're on a like runaway gold rush thing.

00:03:54   - It's classic.

00:03:54   - It just feels good, yeah.

00:03:56   - It's a great ride.

00:03:57   I've ridden that a couple of times.

00:03:58   And I think the difference between something like that

00:04:00   to more modern rides that they do,

00:04:03   really I think a lot of the more modern rides,

00:04:06   they lean on surprise.

00:04:08   And so once you've done it once, it's not the same.

00:04:13   Like the first time I did Rise of the Resistance,

00:04:15   which is the new Star Wars ride,

00:04:17   It absolutely blew my mind.

00:04:20   The second time, I was like, that was really good,

00:04:22   but it just wasn't the same.

00:04:24   - Right, because you don't have that moment.

00:04:27   I have enjoyed, like the Indiana Jones ride is great.

00:04:32   - That's a family favorite of the Hurley family.

00:04:35   - It is, it is really good.

00:04:37   Same thing, right?

00:04:40   Also, the last time we went,

00:04:41   they had a lot of technical problems,

00:04:43   so we were on that ride for quite a while,

00:04:47   because at several points it stopped.

00:04:50   (laughs)

00:04:52   And it was fine 'cause we weren't on so long

00:04:53   that we were miserable and there's lots to see,

00:04:56   but we did have the thing, it actually stopped.

00:04:58   You know, there's that place where you see

00:04:59   Indiana Jones dangling above you.

00:05:03   Well, he was there a long time, Myke.

00:05:07   - Man, he was, really got that upper body strength.

00:05:09   That's all there is to it.

00:05:10   - Yeah, he's holding on tight.

00:05:12   So anyway, but Disneyland's fun and I wish,

00:05:16   Lauren took the kids a few more times, so the kids have been a lot more than I have

00:05:22   during their lifetime, but I would like to go back there at some point. It's just a matter

00:05:26   of--you know, it's a funny thing of having the family right there. You don't ever make

00:05:31   a point of going to Disneyland, and as a result, you never go to Disneyland. And we just have

00:05:38   to--you know, basically we need to say, "We're going to take some time off midweek sometime

00:05:42   and just fly down and go to Disneyland. And the good news is our hotel is covered because,

00:05:47   you know, we have a place to stay, but we just have to make that effort. Maybe this

00:05:52   summer. I mean, summer is always busy at Disneyland, but maybe we'll do it. Who knows?

00:05:56   - If you would like to send in a question to help us open an episode of Upgrade, just

00:06:00   send in a tweet with the hashtag SnellTalk or use question mark SnellTalk in the RelayFM

00:06:06   members discord.

00:06:07   And just a shout out to Casey Liss,

00:06:09   no questions about my favorite anything at Walt Disney World

00:06:13   because I've never been to Orlando.

00:06:16   - Jason and I have returned

00:06:19   to the warm loving embrace of "Dongle Town."

00:06:22   - "Dongle Town" is eternal.

00:06:24   - I'm back in "Dongle Town."

00:06:25   - Yes.

00:06:28   - This is after talking about my frustrations maybe,

00:06:32   or like just some of my experience with the studio display

00:06:34   and the Logitech unifying receiver for their mouse.

00:06:39   So M. Ellis wrote in to say they had a better experience

00:06:42   with their Logitech mouse after plugging

00:06:44   the unifying receiver directly into the studio display

00:06:48   with the use of a USB-C to A dongle.

00:06:50   I think they were having similar issues to me

00:06:52   when using a dock that it was unresponsive,

00:06:55   like it was basically felt like,

00:06:57   I think the easiest way to describe it

00:06:58   is kind of like it was skipping frames in a way.

00:07:01   Like I would move the mouse and it would only move

00:07:03   say three quarters of the way that I would expect it to move. So some kind of interference.

00:07:08   So I think on Steven's recommendation, I ordered these little, like just a very small USB-C

00:07:15   to USB-A adapter. I found them on Amazon. Just like they were highly rated by like a

00:07:21   lot of this stuff on Amazon from a company I have never heard of called Nonda. Right.

00:07:26   You get these little weird things on Amazon.

00:07:28   - I have, it's funny, I have those,

00:07:30   if not from that company,

00:07:31   because it's a programmatically generated

00:07:33   random company name, but I have,

00:07:35   looking at what you bought, I have those.

00:07:37   I absolutely bought the two-pack of the USB-C to USB-A,

00:07:40   little tiny things that you stick in.

00:07:43   And it's, I mean, is it a dongle if it doesn't dangle?

00:07:47   (laughs)

00:07:48   It just, it's like an inline adapter kind of thing.

00:07:51   - It's still a dongle.

00:07:52   It's still a dongle.

00:07:53   - It's just not a dangling dongle.

00:07:55   - It's just not a dangle dongle, it's a regular dongle.

00:07:56   - Okay.

00:07:57   So I now have, it's come in a two pack right?

00:08:00   I only wanted it for unifying receiver.

00:08:02   Then I had a second one and I thought hang on a minute.

00:08:05   I then looked at my CalDigit dock and at that point I had just one thing attached to it

00:08:10   which was my keyboard cable.

00:08:12   Because the cable that I have for my keyboard is USB A to C. Because there can be weird

00:08:16   stuff with USB C to C cables and the way they work with keyboards, it's like a whole thing

00:08:21   I won't bother getting into but it can be unreliable.

00:08:24   So then I was like, oh, let me plug that directly in too.

00:08:28   And then I realized I no longer need my CalDigit Thunderbolt dock.

00:08:32   And the thing that has changed is the new MacBook Pro has basically all of the ports

00:08:36   on it that I would ever need except USB-A. Right?

00:08:41   So that's been the difference.

00:08:43   So now I am back to dongle life but with no more dock and I just have my Thunderbolt cable

00:08:49   going from the MacBook Pro straight into the display, and then I'm using two of the USB-C

00:08:54   ports with these little dongles in them for the two USB-A things going into it. And I'm

00:08:58   really happy because now my desk is even more empty than it was before, so it's great.

00:09:04   You know what has USB-A ports on it, Myke? The Mac Studio.

00:09:07   The Mac Studio, yeah, but I don't need a Mac Studio. I don't need that.

00:09:11   I know.

00:09:12   Plus it's impossible for me to get one even if I wanted one.

00:09:15   I do have USB-A going into the Mac studio here too.

00:09:18   So it's all under the desk.

00:09:20   So all those cables are under the desk,

00:09:22   my keyboard and my stream deck and all that,

00:09:23   they're plugged in under the desk.

00:09:25   I have a USB, what I have to consider on my end

00:09:31   is that I have a little USB-A hub under the desk

00:09:36   and I'm not sure I need it

00:09:37   'cause the computer's under there now, right?

00:09:38   Like unless I need more ports and I'm not sure I do,

00:09:41   I'm gonna have to revisit that

00:09:43   'cause I might actually not even need that hub anymore.

00:09:46   But that's good.

00:09:48   It's a good solution.

00:09:49   The dock adds complexity that you don't actually need,

00:09:54   especially considering that the keyboard and mouse,

00:09:59   they're there to be used in front of the display, right?

00:10:06   So plugging them into the display makes sense.

00:10:11   - Yeah, and so I'm just really,

00:10:13   'cause then it's just that one cable now,

00:10:15   and it goes straight into the display,

00:10:18   and I just don't need, you know,

00:10:19   like I previously was like, oh, for the occasional time

00:10:22   I need an SD card, or the occasional time

00:10:24   that I need this or that, I then have this Thunderbolt dock,

00:10:27   but I don't need that now with the MacBook Pro,

00:10:28   'cause it has those ports in it.

00:10:30   And look, I of course thought, like the MacStudio,

00:10:32   I could probably plug everything that I need into that,

00:10:34   but I don't want one for that desk, and I--

00:10:37   - It's a very expensive dock.

00:10:39   - Yes, and I don't need one.

00:10:41   I'm still not sure it's the right machine

00:10:43   to replace my iMac.

00:10:44   I just haven't really put any thought into it yet.

00:10:47   I'm gonna wait a little longer

00:10:49   and see what later on in the year provides for me anyway.

00:10:52   And we will talk about that later on in the show

00:10:54   because there is, I do also imagine this world

00:10:57   where I actually just use two laptops,

00:10:58   but we'll talk about that at another point.

00:11:00   - Wow.

00:11:01   - Because I just think a MacBook Air,

00:11:03   a colorful MacBook Air could just be really nice,

00:11:05   but we could talk about it later on.

00:11:07   But yeah, I'll wrap this up by saying,

00:11:09   and Back to Zongle Life, and seriously Logitech,

00:11:11   what is wrong with you?

00:11:12   Make a USB receiver.

00:11:14   Like your mouse, the MX Master mouse that I use,

00:11:17   it has a USB-C port for charging.

00:11:19   So you know USB-C exists

00:11:21   and it's better than what you had before.

00:11:23   Why do you only make a USB-A receiver?

00:11:26   - And here, let me say that if you're thinking Logitech,

00:11:29   you gotta think like Apple, right?

00:11:32   You put the USB-A adapter in the box

00:11:36   and then you sell a USB-C receiver.

00:11:39   - Yeah, I'll buy it.

00:11:41   - On your website for a premium price.

00:11:44   - Go for it, you know.

00:11:45   - And people will buy it, come on.

00:11:48   - Many people sent me a link.

00:11:50   - Including me.

00:11:52   - The many, many people sent me this,

00:11:53   and it was right, I wanted to see it,

00:11:55   so I'm happy people sent it to me.

00:11:57   @chaos_t on Twitter ripped apart a magic keyboard

00:12:02   with the touch ID button in it,

00:12:06   and now has on their desk a very small board

00:12:09   with just the touch ID power button.

00:12:14   Basically removing the requirement

00:12:18   to have the keyboard anywhere, right?

00:12:20   - Right. - Have I done a decent job

00:12:21   of explaining that?

00:12:22   Maybe you could do a better job of it.

00:12:23   - Yeah, it's a, so ChaosT took the,

00:12:28   you followed the iFixit instructions

00:12:32   to disassemble the Magic Keyboard with Touch ID

00:12:37   and stripped it down to what appears to be a circuit board

00:12:42   and one connector that goes to the Touch ID sensor.

00:12:46   And it's plugged in via lightning and it works.

00:12:52   And I look at this and I think, one,

00:13:01   I'm kind of tempted to do this, except I would just destroy this keyboard.

00:13:05   And like, but I, cause I have, I like you, I have the, it's the Myke Hurley method.

00:13:09   I have a, an entire keyboard Velcro under my desk so that I can have the touch ID

00:13:13   button. Um, and two, I think to myself, somebody, if this, if there is a standard

00:13:20   set of instructions about how to do this, the next step is that somebody also needs

00:13:24   to sell a little 3d printed plastic.

00:13:27   Shell for it.

00:13:30   So you could have a little touch ID thing on your desk.

00:13:33   And then third, I'll say,

00:13:37   Apple just sell a touch ID box.

00:13:41   Just do it.

00:13:42   - There's no way that whole board

00:13:44   that's connected to the touch ID

00:13:46   is what's needed for the touch ID.

00:13:47   'Cause that board is an entire keyboard.

00:13:50   The majority of what's inside of the keyboard is battery.

00:13:53   So Jason, I'm here to tell you today,

00:13:56   I purchased all of the requisite parts to do this.

00:13:59   - Oh, all right.

00:14:02   - So I will be following up on this maybe next week

00:14:05   or the week after, depending on when everything comes in.

00:14:07   'Cause I needed a couple of extra things from iFixit.

00:14:11   Like they have this thing called the iOpener,

00:14:13   which is a very clever product,

00:14:15   which basically you heat up and it will help you

00:14:17   remove the adhesive 'cause there's a lot of adhesive.

00:14:20   At least the iFixit guide is for a previous version

00:14:24   of the Magic Keyboard.

00:14:25   I don't know if that's changed.

00:14:27   this one that the iFixit guide that is linked is the prior version so they may have made

00:14:33   some changes but but Chaos T said to someone who asked just follow this guide and it's everything

00:14:39   that you need so my plan is to is multiple stages one is to extract it and make sure it works

00:14:47   and then i'm going to try and source something to put it in and then just have it sitting on my desk

00:14:52   so yeah i thought this could be a fun little project i might stream it i might actually stream

00:14:57   the process, but it depends when everything comes in. The keyboard is on the way, but now

00:15:01   I will wait for the iFixit parts to ship. Yeah, I just feel like what I would want out of it was

00:15:08   something that was more like the, because Chaos T has a whole back plate that the lightning goes

00:15:14   into, and that's nice, but it also has the board like right there on top. I don't like that. I

00:15:23   I don't like that.

00:15:23   I want a little rectangle.

00:15:26   I want a little rectangle with that one button on it

00:15:29   and that's it.

00:15:31   - So this will be a process,

00:15:34   but I have begun that process

00:15:36   'cause this seems like a fun project to try and make work.

00:15:39   - Sure, what you can't do is like just take a chainsaw

00:15:42   and cut off the button, that won't work.

00:15:43   You have to disconnect.

00:15:45   You have to do some serious surgery

00:15:46   and like disconnect all of the other keys,

00:15:49   leaving you only with the touch ID.

00:15:51   But yeah, it's a cool idea.

00:15:56   I'm very happy with my touch ID button under the desk.

00:16:01   It's fun.

00:16:02   I was using the 1Password beta

00:16:06   and they have support for SSH keys in 1Password,

00:16:11   which seemed great,

00:16:12   except then suddenly I had to authenticate

00:16:15   every time I was connecting to my server,

00:16:16   whereas I just had those,

00:16:17   like I had those keys, it's fine.

00:16:20   I had to like comment those keys out.

00:16:23   And anyway, I undid that, but in the run of the mill,

00:16:26   kind of like I need you to authenticate

00:16:29   to be able to just put my finger right under my desk

00:16:31   and it gets done, it's pretty great.

00:16:34   And it's kind of like a little magic trick.

00:16:36   However, when I look at the underside of my desk,

00:16:38   when I'm doing something else down there,

00:16:40   I just laugh 'cause there's a whole keyboard.

00:16:42   And if I do overshoot a little bit,

00:16:43   then a couple of extra letters get typed, which is silly.

00:16:47   It's silly.

00:16:48   So yeah, I don't know what I'll do with this,

00:16:50   but I wanna give it a go.

00:16:52   This seemed like a fun enough project to at least try.

00:16:54   - Yeah, yeah, you should definitely try it.

00:16:56   And like I said, whatever you end up doing

00:17:00   for an enclosure,

00:17:02   I think that'll be interesting too,

00:17:05   because it would be nice once you know what it is

00:17:09   as a functional little tiny thing,

00:17:12   would be to figure out how could you mount that

00:17:13   in a way that is nice.

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00:19:37   WWDC has been announced June 6th to 9th.

00:19:40   - I guess I pre-announced it when I said

00:19:42   that it was happening the week that my son

00:19:43   is graduating from high school, but yes.

00:19:45   - Everybody else needed that context, right?

00:19:47   - Once again, it is the last week of school for my children

00:19:51   and it is also WWDC.

00:19:53   - Kind of expected first full week of June.

00:19:55   - As is tradition.

00:19:56   - It is in essence a fully online affair,

00:20:00   but Apple are going to be-- - With a twist.

00:20:01   - Well, I mean, not really.

00:20:02   I mean, kind of, sure.

00:20:04   There is going to be a small, I think very small event

00:20:07   for developers at Apple Park to watch the keynote

00:20:10   and State of the Union.

00:20:11   - I was listening to you guys talk about this

00:20:12   on Connected last week.

00:20:13   And I thought it was interesting because you were kind of

00:20:15   approaching it with the, like it was a small event

00:20:19   and are you going to apply to be there and all of that?

00:20:21   And I thought to myself,

00:20:22   I think that's the wrong way to look at this.

00:20:24   This is a PR opportunity is what this is.

00:20:27   Apple is going to do a PR opportunity

00:20:29   where they're going to showcase off certain developers

00:20:32   and students, right?

00:20:34   And like have it be, you know, again,

00:20:37   'cause it's gonna be such a small group

00:20:39   that it is really not,

00:20:40   I don't think they're gonna even calculate in

00:20:43   like the people who are gonna get invited

00:20:45   that are VIPs, like very important or VITs,

00:20:48   very important developers will be invited

00:20:51   because they want to, you know, politically,

00:20:54   they wanna show their appreciation for those developers.

00:20:57   But I think in the end, the way I read it is

00:21:00   it's basically spectacle and Apple will use it to show,

00:21:05   like look at our great students that we've got

00:21:10   and look at our great developers in a way,

00:21:11   but it's really irrelevant to the event.

00:21:15   I think it's just a little sort of side show.

00:21:18   I do wonder, I've seen some people say media as well.

00:21:23   I'm unclear on that one.

00:21:24   - We're gonna talk about Mark Gurman's report in a bit,

00:21:26   but Mark specifically says media as if it's a thing.

00:21:30   I expect it is in Apple's plan to invite at least some media.

00:21:35   For the same reason, some developers will be,

00:21:38   I think as you say, outrightly invited just for the meetings

00:21:42   that some people at Apple would like to have

00:21:44   with them afterwards,

00:21:44   and it's just a great way to bring them in.

00:21:46   I expect at least some media will be invited

00:21:49   so there can be some in-person conversations

00:21:52   and briefings that happen afterwards,

00:21:53   would be my expectation.

00:21:55   - That's possible.

00:21:56   My reluctance is that I wonder if it's gonna end up being,

00:22:01   like I said, a PR event where media will be invited,

00:22:05   but what they're really gonna be invited there to do

00:22:07   is like hear from the students

00:22:09   or hear from the Apple hand-picked developers.

00:22:13   - Well sure, that's still like a,

00:22:15   there's a PR opportunity that they're looking to go for,

00:22:18   so they'll bring at least some media in.

00:22:21   I would assume too.

00:22:22   - Yeah, it's interesting 'cause that's something

00:22:25   that I'm watching is are they gonna be inviting media

00:22:28   to cover WWDC keynote and provide access

00:22:32   to maybe some of the people who work at Apple

00:22:35   for briefings and things like that?

00:22:37   Or are they gonna invite media there to feed them stories

00:22:42   about the developers, 'cause the inspirational developers

00:22:45   that are there, right?

00:22:47   'Cause that's different, right?

00:22:48   If you're covering, are you covering the event

00:22:51   or are you, or sorry, let me rephrase that.

00:22:54   are you covering WWDC keynote and State of the Union,

00:22:57   or are you there to cover people in Apple Park

00:23:02   watching the keynote in the State of the Union?

00:23:04   I think that would be one of my questions

00:23:06   if media is invited at all.

00:23:08   It's different if they're fishing for public interest,

00:23:10   for little public interest stories about,

00:23:11   like inspirational stories about this great developer

00:23:14   or something like that.

00:23:15   That's a different kind of PR technique

00:23:18   than saying we're inviting some members of the media

00:23:21   to watch the event either in Apple Park campus

00:23:25   or maybe they send the media to the Steve Jobs Theater.

00:23:28   I don't know.

00:23:29   It's an interesting wrinkle.

00:23:32   My guess at this point, my gut feeling is that it's kind of

00:23:35   more a, I don't wanna call it a stunt,

00:23:38   but kind of a PR stunt, right?

00:23:40   Like it's more for show to say, we're slowly opening up

00:23:44   and we're gonna have a watch party,

00:23:46   but it's still gonna be online.

00:23:48   That said, it's not that far off from the thing

00:23:50   that I've been saying all along,

00:23:52   which is that they will probably try hard

00:23:53   to have some sort of in-person component,

00:23:56   but it won't be what we think of as WWDC.

00:23:59   It'll be more like,

00:24:01   'cause I'm thinking that maybe next year,

00:24:03   they'll invite media and select developers

00:24:06   to the Steve Jobs Theater for a live keynote,

00:24:10   and maybe a live State of the Union presentation,

00:24:13   or maybe not, but something that, some live aspect,

00:24:16   but it doesn't kick off an event

00:24:19   that's in the real world, it just kicks off the week of videos.

00:24:23   Yeah, I imagine that too. The weeks of videos and online labs and stuff.

00:24:27   Yeah, and it lets them have people there to talk to and to do briefings and to do all

00:24:31   of that stuff. It lets them have that, but it's not the "let's get thousands of developers"

00:24:34   kind of thing ever again.

00:24:36   We're going to dig into this more in a minute, but there is a possibility of hardware at

00:24:40   WWDC, which could be a reason to bring some media in if they maybe want to do some kind

00:24:43   the limited hands-on which would also allow them to start the potential drive run of an

00:24:50   iPhone event, a headset event later on in the year as well.

00:24:54   Right, because we figure at some point they're going to have some very important hardware.

00:24:58   Yes.

00:24:59   That's VIH.

00:25:00   Just adding all the very importance this time.

00:25:01   It's a very important podcast, VIP.

00:25:04   See?

00:25:05   It is, they're going to do that, right?

00:25:07   They're going to do, if it's all humanly possible, they're going to do an in-person event because

00:25:12   they're going to have hardware that they really want the press to get their hands on.

00:25:15   I guess we don't know what will happen with COVID levels. I would imagine it's going to

00:25:20   be one of those things where everybody is going to have to be vaccinated and probably

00:25:24   pass a test in order to do, but they could do that and they will still be able to put

00:25:30   on that event. So I think they're going to want, I think you make a good point that in

00:25:34   some ways this is a little bit of a test case, a little bit of a dry run.

00:25:37   Could be right? So to dig into this a little bit more, I guess we're in the room around

00:25:44   up, Sheriff Mark Gurman is reporting, "Original plans for this WWDC were to be the unveiling

00:25:51   of the Apple headset, but that's likely been pushed. Though iOS 16, understandably, is

00:25:58   full of references to it currently," is what Mark has been told. But that's like, of course,

00:26:02   I mean, it's only internal and the expectation is that this headset will be released during

00:26:08   the Iowa 16 cycle and we also expect the headset to be very intertwined with the phone. So

00:26:14   all of this stuff makes perfect sense and is all pointed towards what we would expect.

00:26:19   The challenge that they have is the gap between giving developers information about the product

00:26:30   and the release of the product.

00:26:33   And they do everything on an OS cycle based on September.

00:26:38   And so it's tough for them to,

00:26:44   like I think announcing the existence of the headset

00:26:47   at WWDC with a reality-based OS kind of component to it

00:26:52   is the ideal situation.

00:26:55   And Mark Gurman saying that's what they were shooting for,

00:26:58   but they probably won't make it.

00:27:01   So the fallback, to me, the fallback is

00:27:05   they could do it at any time during the summer,

00:27:08   or they could really do it at the same event

00:27:10   as the iPhone unveiling. - That's what I think.

00:27:12   I think do it at the iPhone.

00:27:13   - And it doesn't ship for a few months.

00:27:15   So what you say is-- - Yeah, you've got

00:27:16   the whole world watching.

00:27:18   The whole world watches. - Yeah, and so you say

00:27:19   iOS 16 is here, and what?

00:27:23   There's also this other thing in developers,

00:27:25   it's based on what you've been working on

00:27:26   all summer with iOS.

00:27:28   given that it's an open secret, it also allows Apple,

00:27:31   and I know we've talked about this before,

00:27:33   but like the existence of all of its existing AR

00:27:36   and VR stuff allows Apple to just matter of factly state,

00:27:41   iOS 16 has all of this new stuff for virtual reality

00:27:44   and augmented reality, and even potentially a way

00:27:49   to test it using existing off the shelf hardware

00:27:54   from other companies and just say,

00:27:56   yeah, this is a thing we're doing.

00:27:58   And not say a word about the fact

00:27:59   that there's gonna be hardware on the other end of it.

00:28:02   It's just like, no, you can try this stuff out.

00:28:05   And everybody knows why.

00:28:07   They don't have to say why.

00:28:08   Everybody knows why.

00:28:09   And it frees them to make that actual announcement later

00:28:13   and still give a few months buffer

00:28:16   before the software has to be ready.

00:28:17   So, yeah, I mean, it wouldn't surprise me

00:28:22   if they did basically acknowledge

00:28:24   we are working on a product

00:28:26   or even do a sneak peek with very high level stuff

00:28:29   and say it's in the OS,

00:28:30   and we'll provide more details later.

00:28:35   But that's not what I would pick

00:28:38   as the most likely scenario.

00:28:39   I think the scenario where they announce it in September

00:28:42   is the most likely.

00:28:43   And soft pedal it in June and be like,

00:28:46   yeah, yeah, there's a lot of VR and AR stuff in here.

00:28:49   Strongly implied, but not stated outright,

00:28:53   which they can do.

00:28:55   Because again, they're not fooling anybody, right?

00:28:58   They're just not ready to talk about it yet.

00:29:00   But they could talk about all the juicy APIs

00:29:03   that are in the new OSs

00:29:05   without actually announcing the product.

00:29:07   And I think that's the best way to do it.

00:29:09   - They could go a long way, right?

00:29:11   They could go a long way to,

00:29:13   we've got this new AR stuff

00:29:14   and never need to talk about reality OS

00:29:17   or whatever they're gonna call it, right?

00:29:19   - Exactly.

00:29:20   - Because every single year

00:29:21   they spend a significant portion of WWDC

00:29:23   talking about the AR updates.

00:29:24   like it's a thing. And so they can just say, "Hey, we've got all this new stuff."

00:29:28   You know, it can be like, you remember like one of the classics I always think

00:29:32   of is size classes on iPad or what was iOS for iPad, you know? Like all apps

00:29:39   should be able to adapt their size. And then everyone will say, "Well,

00:29:44   obviously they are trying to have multitasking on the iPad." You know,

00:29:49   it's like one of the classic ones where it's like they will telegraph something

00:29:52   to you a year in advance or months in advance

00:29:55   because they've got this thing coming down the line.

00:29:57   iOS 16 is also set to include updates to notifications

00:30:01   and new health tracking features, says Mark Gurman.

00:30:05   I don't really know what this means.

00:30:07   Honestly, like I don't know what the iPhone

00:30:10   will be doing for health tracking.

00:30:12   Mark does say watchOS 9 is also expected

00:30:14   to get new health focus features.

00:30:17   I can believe that, but I don't know what that means

00:30:20   with no new sensors.

00:30:22   hazy notifications updates.

00:30:27   Like, okay, I mean-

00:30:28   - I hope so, because Focus Mode needs more effort put on it.

00:30:32   - Who among us would not say that trying

00:30:35   to make notifications better in iOS would not be admirable?

00:30:37   - But I'm genuinely really happy about this

00:30:39   'cause I was like, oh, they put this new system in.

00:30:42   It will be the old Apple way.

00:30:43   It's been two years before they touch it again.

00:30:45   But my hope will be that like they did all this stuff

00:30:47   to notifications, Focus Mode, time sensitive,

00:30:50   summary is all good stuff, but needs more.

00:30:53   And so, push it forward.

00:30:55   They're gonna keep doing that.

00:30:56   iPad OS 16 is expected to have yet another redesign

00:31:00   of multitasking.

00:31:01   - So that's all, I mean, that's really all he says

00:31:04   is it's another redesign of multitasking.

00:31:06   I think, and I know Federico had lots of feelings

00:31:10   about this.

00:31:11   - We can talk about it on connected.

00:31:13   - I'm sure.

00:31:14   So what I'll say, I'll just throw this in here before you.

00:31:15   - I wanna know what you think.

00:31:16   - Before you get to connected.

00:31:19   I enjoy listening to Connected.

00:31:20   I listen to Connected live when I run

00:31:23   and then I also listen like when I get home.

00:31:25   And it's always very funny

00:31:27   'cause you start talking about me while I'm taking a shower

00:31:29   and I can't even text you to dispute your claims about me.

00:31:33   - You need to use Siri, you know.

00:31:35   - It's very fun.

00:31:36   - Just shout out.

00:31:37   - I enjoy that podcast a lot.

00:31:38   So anyway, what I would say is,

00:31:41   it's a report from Mark Gurman.

00:31:45   So he's getting this sort of like described to him

00:31:48   and not in any detail.

00:31:49   It's just like there's multitasking stuff in there.

00:31:51   And my immediate thought is,

00:31:53   this is external display support

00:31:56   and potentially support for a larger screened iPad.

00:31:59   And after what they did last year,

00:32:02   I have a hard time believing

00:32:03   that they will truly redesign multitasking

00:32:06   because the new system that they put in place last year,

00:32:10   and Federico's pointed this out,

00:32:12   it's a new way of doing what has already been possible.

00:32:15   Like it wasn't adding features to multitasking,

00:32:18   it was like changing the way you did those features.

00:32:21   - Made it clearer in some ways.

00:32:23   It made it more obscure and complicated in others,

00:32:25   but the basics of it is a bit more simple.

00:32:28   - Right, but I always read the iPadOS 15 updates

00:32:32   as being laying the foundation for more complex multitasking

00:32:35   that what they were really doing was building a new system

00:32:39   of multitasking interface because they knew multitasking

00:32:43   was going to get more complicated down the road,

00:32:47   and they needed to start from a different metaphor

00:32:50   if they were gonna do that.

00:32:51   - They needed to start putting some visual buttons in, right?

00:32:54   'Cause now you're gonna get maybe four corners

00:32:57   and all that kind of stuff.

00:32:58   - Right, because they've got the little SF symbol elements

00:33:02   for tiling and stuff like that,

00:33:04   like on the little dots at the top of a window.

00:33:07   And they've got the multi-window concept

00:33:09   in their little dock and all of that.

00:33:11   Like they have been moving in this direction.

00:33:13   So when I read the Mark Gurman report,

00:33:17   I am wish casting a little bit,

00:33:20   but my take on that is that what this probably means

00:33:23   is that they're now going,

00:33:24   using this new sort of system that they set out in iPadOS 15,

00:33:29   this is when they push it forward and say,

00:33:33   "Okay, you can do more now.

00:33:35   You can do a grid or tiles,

00:33:39   So you can put different apps in different places

00:33:42   on the screen.

00:33:42   And we're gonna open up the external display things

00:33:47   so that it's actually usable

00:33:48   because it's not just that it's dumb

00:33:51   that you can attach an iPad to a studio display

00:33:54   and it shows pillar boxed and upscaled

00:33:57   what's on the screen of the iPad.

00:33:59   But even if the iPad were able to use the full 5K

00:34:02   to display something that's not on the screen,

00:34:05   with the existing multitasking, it would be really dumb

00:34:08   because you're very limited in,

00:34:10   you basically would be, would have split view.

00:34:13   And that's all you would have.

00:34:14   For a larger display,

00:34:15   you need to be able to tile more apps

00:34:18   and have more control over where your apps go.

00:34:21   Even if it's not full on Mac windows,

00:34:23   you would still need more control than you currently have.

00:34:28   So you can't just do external display support

00:34:30   without adding better, more flexible multitasking support.

00:34:35   So I choose to read this rumor

00:34:38   as being that we're finally gonna get

00:34:40   some form of advanced multi-window multitasking

00:34:44   in some form and probably external display support too,

00:34:47   especially now that Apple is actually selling

00:34:49   its own semi-reasonably priced external display.

00:34:54   If you wanna roll your eyes at this,

00:34:58   you could say they're just gonna redesign the same thing

00:35:01   for the ninth time.

00:35:02   And it's like, how many times are they gonna try

00:35:04   to do this before realizing they're not gonna make

00:35:07   multitasking happen, but I choose to believe

00:35:10   that this is actually part of the plan

00:35:12   that started with iOS 15 and is going, or iPadOS 15,

00:35:15   and that they're gonna advance,

00:35:18   now that they've redefined it,

00:35:19   now they're gonna advance it.

00:35:20   That's what I choose to believe.

00:35:22   - Okay, I'm definitely in a for me once, shame on me,

00:35:24   for me twice kind of situation

00:35:26   when it comes to iPad multitasking.

00:35:28   - I get it, and I've been there too,

00:35:30   but I'm reminded of some of our drafts

00:35:31   where we've done that and been like,

00:35:34   yeah, I'm not gonna pick the Apple external display.

00:35:36   That's not gonna happen.

00:35:37   I've picked it too many times and then it happens, right?

00:35:40   Sometimes Apple fools you so many times

00:35:43   that you really just have to give up,

00:35:44   but then sometimes they come through

00:35:45   with the thing that you've been waiting for

00:35:46   just way later than you thought.

00:35:48   - They wait until the moment you give up

00:35:50   and then give it to you.

00:35:51   - Well, the release of the studio display,

00:35:54   I do think is almost a necessary thing

00:35:58   for external display support on the iPad.

00:36:00   I feel like it was almost a requirement

00:36:03   that Apple have a reasonable iPad external display

00:36:07   that they could use.

00:36:08   'Cause I could never really envision them saying,

00:36:11   hey, we did iPad external display support

00:36:14   and here's this LG monitor, right?

00:36:16   Like I couldn't, or here's the Pro Display XDR.

00:36:19   I couldn't see that, but I can see it now.

00:36:22   But yeah, I think everybody,

00:36:24   now that I've gotten your hopes up,

00:36:26   don't get your hopes up, right?

00:36:27   Like I think everybody needs to be level headed about this

00:36:30   because this might be it.

00:36:32   But it hasn't been so far.

00:36:36   So, you know, the pessimists are always

00:36:38   either either right or it exceeded their expectations.

00:36:42   That's the advantage of being a pessimist, I guess.

00:36:44   So everybody pick their poison,

00:36:45   but I'm choosing to be optimistic about this.

00:36:47   I feel like they're in exactly the right place

00:36:49   to finally do this.

00:36:51   - Yeah, I will say I am going along

00:36:54   and I agree with what you just said about the,

00:36:57   you couldn't imagine them saying,

00:36:59   "Hey, we've got this new display support,

00:37:02   get an XDR, right?

00:37:04   However, they did do that for the Mac for a long time.

00:37:08   - Yeah.

00:37:09   - Right, even like the Mac mini,

00:37:11   which it needed a display,

00:37:13   and they had no problem then saying,

00:37:15   "Get this one," you know, or some other display.

00:37:18   But I, but wanna say, I just wanted to make that point.

00:37:21   However, I do agree with what you're saying about,

00:37:24   it would have been kind of weird to add display support

00:37:26   to another device, but yet not have a display to give you.

00:37:30   - Not a good story, right?

00:37:31   Apple likes their stories.

00:37:32   - Yeah, it doesn't tie up.

00:37:33   Where the other products, their legacy really,

00:37:36   you know what I mean?

00:37:37   The all this stuff has been around before

00:37:39   and at least with every other,

00:37:40   well at least with all the laptops,

00:37:42   it's like you can if you want to, but you don't need to.

00:37:45   The Mac Pro was like, well, what else are you gonna attach

00:37:47   your million dollar computer to?

00:37:49   You know what I mean?

00:37:51   - Half a million dollars play.

00:37:52   - The outlier and for the Mac Mini being

00:37:54   the quote unquote cheaper Mac,

00:37:56   you could say get this ultra fine, right?

00:37:59   The stories were, whilst a little disjointed,

00:38:01   you could make them, and with the iPad,

00:38:04   it would be a bit weird.

00:38:05   Like, hey, this beautiful display you have on your iPad Pro,

00:38:08   hook it up to a less great, you know what I mean?

00:38:11   We'll hook it up to a worse display, but it's bigger?

00:38:13   Right, so, yeah.

00:38:15   - And there are some rumors about a larger iPad,

00:38:18   and I feel like this fits that too.

00:38:19   - When hasn't there been though?

00:38:21   Are there actually rumors?

00:38:23   Are there rumors, or are there just like people thinking?

00:38:25   - Just wishes?

00:38:26   - Yeah.

00:38:27   that there was a report from someone, and I don't know if it was Mark Gurman or Ming-Chi

00:38:31   Kuo who said that Apple is considering, at least considering, a larger iPad.

00:38:36   Yeah, I mean, but that comes in and out. Anyway, it is not a question of can they do it. It

00:38:42   is a question of do they want to do it, and that's the most frustrating kind of thing

00:38:46   for guessing what Apple is going to do, is I can—we can all look at the existing hardware

00:38:53   and even the existing software and interfaces and where they are and gauge like, "Oh, this

00:38:58   isn't going to happen. They're not ready." It's different when all of it is poised, right?

00:39:04   Like it's right on the edge of being possible. And then it just becomes, "Does Apple want to do

00:39:09   this? Do they have the will to do this?" And that part is very hard to tell because it's like,

00:39:17   "Where's their head right now?" And I think if there's anything that you could get from

00:39:21   from listening to Federico talk about the iPad on connected

00:39:24   the last few months.

00:39:25   It's that the iPad is in a bit of a precarious situation

00:39:29   where we're not really sure what Apple thinks of the iPad.

00:39:32   It goes back to that report card

00:39:34   where David Sparks pointed out

00:39:35   that he had to basically give up trying to make the iPad

00:39:38   be a thing that Apple clearly doesn't think it is.

00:39:41   And I think that this is the question is

00:39:45   just because the iPad has been moving in this direction

00:39:47   for a while doesn't mean Apple is gonna take it

00:39:49   the rest of the way.

00:39:50   Apple might say, "We're fine.

00:39:52   We're not gonna do that anymore and change its mind."

00:39:54   And as much as we applaud the fact that five years ago,

00:39:57   Apple got a bunch of people around the table and said,

00:39:59   "We've changed our mind about the Mac,

00:40:01   and we are," you know,

00:40:02   they'll never admit they changed their mind.

00:40:03   I was like, "Oh, no, no, we're always committed,

00:40:06   but we're extra committed now."

00:40:08   They can change their mind the other way too,

00:40:11   and say, "Yeah, we've worked a lot on, you know,

00:40:14   keyboard and mouse support for iPadOS,

00:40:16   and multitasking and all that,

00:40:17   but we're not gonna push it further.

00:40:21   We've chosen not to do that,

00:40:22   and I would be sad about that, but they might do it.

00:40:26   - Now, move on to hardware.

00:40:28   I wanna read what I think is a really weird paragraph.

00:40:33   This came from Mark Gurman's "Power On" newsletter,

00:40:36   which is great, but this is weird to me,

00:40:39   and it goes back to when we talk about

00:40:41   what are the sources, right?

00:40:44   This is a quote from Mark Gurman.

00:40:45   I'm told there are two new Macs coming around the middle of the year or early in the second

00:40:50   half.

00:40:51   One of those is likely to be the new MacBook Air.

00:40:54   Other models in the works include an updated Mac Mini and 24" iMac as well as a low end

00:41:00   MacBook Pro to replace the aging 13" model.

00:41:04   Let's not forget that the new Mac Pro and iMac Pro models are in development.

00:41:09   Now what that tells you is Mark has a source that tells him one thing but cannot tell him

00:41:14   the other one and I find that fascinating. Yeah two two Mac models MacBook Air and something

00:41:21   else MacBook Air and every other possible Mac it could be and then here's a list including

00:41:26   things that I've said will be you know pretty far out but I'm gonna include them here too

00:41:30   I look at that and think one it's fascinating because yes his sources have only been able

00:41:34   to provide him with one product that seems likely although he feels like the two models

00:41:41   are likely, he can't name the second model,

00:41:44   which is fascinating.

00:41:45   And then when he lists all of them,

00:41:47   I think that's partially like pick from this list,

00:41:50   partially to make it seem like less of a rip off

00:41:54   that he doesn't name the second one.

00:41:55   And partially as defensive writing,

00:41:58   because everybody's gonna come back and say,

00:42:00   "Oh, but what about this?

00:42:01   And what about this?

00:42:02   And what about this?"

00:42:02   So he literally listed them all and said,

00:42:04   "Yes, I'm aware about all the Macs that I've said

00:42:07   in my own reporting are coming out.

00:42:09   Don't ask me.

00:42:10   I don't know.

00:42:11   I've listed them all as possibilities.

00:42:13   - Where the conventional wisdom would tell you

00:42:16   the Mac Pro would be the most likely

00:42:18   to be shown off at all, right?

00:42:20   Like that's what we would say.

00:42:21   If we were just gonna guess,

00:42:22   I was gonna make a guess like,

00:42:23   oh, which Mac do you think could be shown at the WWDC?

00:42:27   Well, I'll give you Mac Pro for two reasons.

00:42:29   One, it's literally when they always do it

00:42:32   and it makes the most sense

00:42:33   because it's the audience that cares the most,

00:42:35   even if they're not in the room,

00:42:36   they're just the audience that cares the most.

00:42:39   Two, they've already said it's coming, right?

00:42:42   Which they never do.

00:42:43   They never do that.

00:42:44   And so that seems the most likely to me that it gets,

00:42:48   because as well, I'll give you reason three,

00:42:50   the Mac Pro is maybe the only product

00:42:53   they have in their lineup

00:42:54   where they could tell you about it six months in advance

00:42:56   and it doesn't make an ounce of difference.

00:42:58   - Exactly.

00:42:59   Yeah, I think it's also unclear,

00:43:03   like what is the introduction of two new Mac models be?

00:43:05   Because I think personally they could tease the Mac Pro

00:43:10   and not introduce it, right?

00:43:12   Like they could tease it, but it's like,

00:43:13   and it's coming later, right?

00:43:14   As they've done for Mac Pros in the past,

00:43:16   it's coming later this year.

00:43:18   And here's a little tease about what it's gonna be like

00:43:20   and we'll give you more information later.

00:43:21   And then we spend six months wondering,

00:43:24   parsing all the limited information they've given us,

00:43:27   wondering what it's actually gonna be like

00:43:28   until they are ready to unveil it.

00:43:30   So it's entirely possible they'll do that

00:43:33   and unveil two new Mac models in the moment.

00:43:37   My gut feeling is since the MacBook Air

00:43:39   is rumored to be an M2,

00:43:41   that maybe they will replace that 13-inch MacBook Pro

00:43:46   with whatever the new one of that is,

00:43:48   because it allows them to tell a complete laptop story

00:43:52   by sweeping out those two original M1 laptops

00:43:55   and replacing them, then they'll have the MacBook Pros

00:43:58   and they'll have those two laptops.

00:43:59   And we've speculated here,

00:44:01   maybe they're not MacBook Air and MacBook Pro,

00:44:05   maybe they're MacBook and MacBook Air.

00:44:08   And the MacBook Air is the version

00:44:11   that is emphasizing thinness and lightness.

00:44:14   And then that 13-inch MacBook Pro becomes a MacBook,

00:44:17   it doesn't have the touch bar.

00:44:18   It's something that is more affordable than a MacBook Pro,

00:44:22   but beefier and more capable than a MacBook Air.

00:44:27   And it lives in the middle.

00:44:29   And maybe even has things like,

00:44:31   I don't know, but that would be like an M2 as well.

00:44:34   That's my gut feeling of the most straightforward thing.

00:44:38   However, some of the reports I've seen are wild, right?

00:44:41   Like the idea that they might turn over the iMac

00:44:46   and the Mac mini to the M2 soon,

00:44:49   like, and this is the question is,

00:44:51   if M2 is shipping in volume this summer,

00:44:55   they could turn over all the M1 Macs

00:45:01   especially if they're not redesigning them.

00:45:03   And there's questions about

00:45:04   if they're gonna redesign the Mac mini,

00:45:05   but they're certainly not gonna redesign the 24-inch iMac.

00:45:09   So they could just say, "New colors, M2,"

00:45:12   and make an announcement about that at any point.

00:45:16   So that's, and we haven't seen that second turn of the wheel

00:45:20   of the new M series cycle, so we don't know.

00:45:24   But if I had to guess,

00:45:25   it would be those two laptops, I think.

00:45:28   My guess is it's the Mac Pro.

00:45:30   And they talk about the fact this is the last M1 machine and saying,

00:45:35   we are introducing the first M2 machine today.

00:45:37   And it's the MacBook Air.

00:45:39   And I actually think that the update to the MacBook Pro is a footnote at the end

00:45:44   of the MacBook Air announcement. Like that they say,

00:45:48   we are also today bringing this new M2 chip to the MacBook Pro,

00:45:52   which we are now calling the MacBook. Cause it's not, in my opinion,

00:45:57   whatever they do to it, worthy of that much time?

00:46:01   - I think, I don't know, I think they will

00:46:02   because I think they're gonna remove the touch bar, right?

00:46:04   And they're gonna simplify that computer.

00:46:06   - But like that could be done in a minute.

00:46:09   - No, but imagine, well, yes,

00:46:10   but imagine just spitballing here,

00:46:12   knowing how Apple's rollouts work.

00:46:15   I think what you do is you say,

00:46:16   and we're introducing, you know, John Ternus is there,

00:46:18   what color is his shirt?

00:46:19   He's like, ah, the M2.

00:46:21   And here are the things we changed

00:46:22   to take it even further than those M1 chips

00:46:25   that blew you away two years ago.

00:46:27   and we're putting it, now let me tell you,

00:46:29   or now let Jaws tell you or whoever

00:46:31   about the new computer, right?

00:46:33   And you cut to the person who's gonna tell you

00:46:34   about the new computer.

00:46:35   They say, well, here we are, it's the new MacBook.

00:46:38   And people are like, okay.

00:46:40   And it turns out, oh, well, I see what they're doing.

00:46:42   They're taking the 13 inch MacBook Pro,

00:46:43   they've redefined it, they're calling the new MacBook.

00:46:46   That's not that exciting.

00:46:47   And they're like, aha, but wait,

00:46:49   there's also a new MacBook Air and colors and oh my God,

00:46:52   I can see the universe, it's all in color, it's amazing.

00:46:56   that's how they would do it, right?

00:46:57   They'd start with a boring one and say,

00:46:59   "Oh, look, we made this product that made no sense,

00:47:01   makes sense, isn't that nice?"

00:47:03   But wait, and then they blow your mind

00:47:06   with whatever the new MacBook Air is.

00:47:07   That would be how they would do it.

00:47:09   If I were marketing inside Apple, that's how I would do it.

00:47:11   And so you mentioned that first thing,

00:47:13   but it's really a setup for the second thing.

00:47:15   Lots of ways they could do it.

00:47:17   - Okay, I can see that.

00:47:19   But I just don't even know if there's the time for it,

00:47:24   but I do think- - I don't know.

00:47:26   The MacBook Air at least seems like the most of everything else other than the Mac Pro

00:47:32   seems locked to me personally.

00:47:34   Everything else the MacBook Air seems like the most likely because I mean that was originally

00:47:38   what rumored to be September of last year.

00:47:42   We were going to get that MacBook Air but I remain very excited about that MacBook Air.

00:47:47   Well I think there's a strong argument to be made that it doesn't make sense that any

00:47:51   of this hardware get announced at the developer conference other than the Mac Pro.

00:47:55   the MacBook Pro is already out there, but your point is, I think, the relevant one,

00:47:59   which is, I think they've been trying to introduce the MacBook Air for a while now, if the reports

00:48:04   are true, and they have been frustrated and it's gotten pushed back from their internal

00:48:09   timelines, and it's one of those things that, you know, you say, "Well, why now?" and the

00:48:13   answer is, "Because we have it now." And it's like, is it relevant to WWC? No, but we --

00:48:20   But they don't have enough for a whole other event, right? They don't want to do an event

00:48:23   just for that when they've got WWDC on the horizon.

00:48:26   And the MacBook Air is incredibly popular, right?

00:48:30   So just get it the moment that you can sell it, start selling it.

00:48:33   So yeah, well, I'm excited.

00:48:36   We're two months away.

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00:50:11   Take me out to the ball game Jason Snow.

00:50:13   Yes, yes. One day I will.

00:50:17   We've done it before. We've been to baseball together.

00:50:18   We've been to a minor league game in Memphis.

00:50:19   I would like to go to a major league game with you.

00:50:22   I have been to a major league game.

00:50:25   I saw the Mets play someone once.

00:50:27   I don't remember who. Okay.

00:50:28   But I did it.

00:50:29   You know, I went out to,

00:50:30   what is the name of their field?

00:50:32   City Field, probably. Yeah, I went out to City Field.

00:50:34   They had great food there.

00:50:36   It was a really good day.

00:50:37   It was very hot, but it was a good day.

00:50:38   I went out in August one year with some friends.

00:50:41   Well, get out here and I'll take you to the Giants game.

00:50:44   - All right. - And have a nice time.

00:50:45   - I would love to go to the Giants game.

00:50:46   - Roll out the baseballs and have some baseball park food

00:50:51   and I can tell you how baseball works.

00:50:54   - Well, why don't you tell me how baseball works

00:50:56   on Apple TV Plus?

00:50:57   - Okay, yes, here we are.

00:51:00   Apple is now a baseball broadcaster.

00:51:02   It happened on Friday.

00:51:03   Two games, 'cause that's the idea here.

00:51:06   They're gonna, Friday Night Baseball, it's two games.

00:51:08   They broadcast not just nationally, but internationally.

00:51:11   There are people tweeting about it in the UK.

00:51:13   And it's Saturday baseball for Australia.

00:51:18   And it's in Japan and Korea as well,

00:51:22   and several other markets.

00:51:23   It's kind of all over the place, which is cool.

00:51:27   It's obviously produced by Major League Baseball and the MLB

00:51:30   Network, which is the baseball-owned cable channel.

00:51:35   And they are producing these shows.

00:51:37   Apple didn't go out and hire announcers and hire camera people and hire producers, right?

00:51:45   This deal included Apple, you know, as either part of what Apple's paying here is paying

00:51:50   for the services for MLB Network to produce the show for them. It's branded as Apple,

00:51:56   but it's produced by MLB Network. And we also got the answer in some of the coverage to

00:52:02   the fact that these announcing teams, and they have three announcers in the booth and

00:52:07   a field announcer, and it sounds like they're going to be the announcing teams that Apple

00:52:12   uses for the whole year. We'll see, but it looks like they're going to try to keep the

00:52:15   teams together, these crews, and have them go to different parks and comment on different

00:52:20   games, but that would be good, I think, because it would allow them to work together and build

00:52:25   up a rapport, because you got the sense from this that it was the first time that they

00:52:30   had worked together. And so, yeah, the truth is, a lot of what we saw on Friday night was

00:52:37   very conventional, things you would see on sports TV.

00:52:41   And I know there were the comments I saw on Twitter

00:52:42   from people who I think maybe don't usually watch

00:52:45   today's sports broadcasts and therefore don't know

00:52:49   what the current, like what it's like.

00:52:52   You know, it had a, they were so conventional

00:52:56   in terms of the broadcast that yeah,

00:52:58   so the pregame show had a sponsor and had commercials.

00:53:03   The actual game also had commercials and yeah,

00:53:06   there were Apple TV+ ads, which I expected, but also a lot of super, just, whatever ads

00:53:13   were sold by MLB Network, essentially. Like, there was a Subway ad at one point, NFT ads.

00:53:20   There was an ad for CDW featuring Microsoft Surface that made me laugh. That was hilarious.

00:53:26   Apple TV+ featuring Microsoft Surface. There was a Hey Siri ad during the broadcast, but

00:53:32   does those ads, sorry, Ahoy telephone.

00:53:35   Apple does Ahoy telephone ads

00:53:37   during regular sports broadcast.

00:53:39   That's not an Apple specific thing.

00:53:41   So what was different, at least in week one,

00:53:46   and keeping in mind, this is week one,

00:53:48   all the type was in San Francisco.

00:53:50   - San Francisco font, right?

00:53:52   - Yeah, yeah.

00:53:53   So it was design, Apple's design style.

00:53:56   It was all using variants of San Francisco.

00:54:00   For those who care about little sports graphics stuff,

00:54:02   which I do, the score bug I thought was pretty good.

00:54:05   They have three dots for the outs and then fill them in

00:54:07   as the outs are gotten.

00:54:09   Some people like two dots for the outs.

00:54:11   It's dumb, there are three outs in an inning.

00:54:12   You should show three of the object.

00:54:14   Don't @ me.

00:54:15   And I wish, what I think was missing from it is

00:54:21   I wish it displayed the pitcher

00:54:23   and not just the pitch count

00:54:26   'cause they show how many pitches

00:54:28   but they didn't say who's pitching

00:54:29   which I think is just a nice thing that some broadcast add

00:54:31   that I think would be nice.

00:54:33   What was interesting is they don't have

00:54:34   hitter information up there

00:54:35   because they put the hitter information

00:54:36   in the lower right corner.

00:54:38   And although that took some getting used to,

00:54:42   I think that there were some advantages to it.

00:54:43   There was always kind of hitter

00:54:45   and situational information in the lower right.

00:54:47   I thought the type was maybe a little too light.

00:54:49   It was a little too hard to notice that it was there.

00:54:51   They used a bunch of advanced statistics, which was fun,

00:54:56   but they were also a little bit silly.

00:54:59   Like they would put up,

00:55:00   this player has a 42.44% chance of driving in a run,

00:55:05   which like guys just say 42%.

00:55:09   Like it's the decimal percentages

00:55:14   don't make it seem more scientific.

00:55:16   They make it seem silly.

00:55:19   So I think they could simplify that a little bit.

00:55:23   And I also think that down in the little hitter area,

00:55:26   another thing that's missing is as the game progresses,

00:55:29   what has that hitter done today?

00:55:31   And I know they sometimes would put up a graphic

00:55:32   and then take it back down,

00:55:33   but it's like, I actually really like the sports broadcast

00:55:36   that when the hitter's batting,

00:55:37   it says this guy was two for four with two runs batted in,

00:55:40   or that he got a hit in the third inning

00:55:42   or hit a home run in the fourth inning.

00:55:43   Like I would really like some kind of constant information

00:55:47   about the batter and not just their kind of advanced stats

00:55:50   and percentages.

00:55:50   So that's a critique that I have.

00:55:53   I think there's some work that they could do there.

00:55:54   I appreciate what they're trying.

00:55:55   It's a different kind of feel,

00:55:57   but I would like a little more situational stuff.

00:56:00   If we're talking about stuff that's on the screen

00:56:02   the whole time, I would like status of the batter

00:56:06   and what the batter had done,

00:56:08   either in the game or what his stats are for the season.

00:56:10   Big thing is though, like I mentioned,

00:56:13   it's a full on national broadcast team.

00:56:15   It feels like Apple is paying to make this feel special,

00:56:20   even though it's just a couple of regular season games plucked off the schedule on a

00:56:23   Friday night, they put the three people in the booth. That is a very kind of playoffs,

00:56:29   Sunday night baseball on ESPN, kind of like we spared no expense. Three people in the

00:56:33   booth and a sideline reporter. So it feels special. And there were way more cameras in

00:56:39   use than a normal game. I think because, as you know, Myke, there's usually a home and

00:56:45   and away broadcast separately for a game.

00:56:48   But of course Apple has the exclusive.

00:56:51   And that means there's more crew and more cameras.

00:56:56   And I think that that's what they're doing.

00:56:57   I think they are actually using the local crew

00:56:59   for the home and away crews,

00:57:01   putting them together and shooting with more cameras.

00:57:05   And it felt more special.

00:57:06   And they also boasted in their press release

00:57:08   that they're gonna try to bring

00:57:09   like their super high resolution camera,

00:57:11   which lets them zoom in really clearly.

00:57:13   and their super speed camera that lets them do super slow-mo, and they're gonna bring

00:57:19   that to select games as well. So they're trying to make it feel special in a lot of ways,

00:57:26   even though it's, you know, an MLB network production, it's an MLB network production

00:57:31   where Apple has put extra money in and said, "No, no, no, make it special. Don't make it

00:57:35   a cut rate broadcast. Make it feel like an event, like it's better than what you're gonna

00:57:41   to see on your local broadcast in terms of the quality. And I will say, speaking of the

00:57:45   quality, the quality of the video is very good. A lot of people commented about how

00:57:48   good it looked, and it really did look good. I don't know how much of that is Apple saying,

00:57:53   "Yes, quality is our watchword," and how much of that is how bad the signal path is from

00:57:59   the local cable channel that's broadcasting it to your cable or satellite provider to

00:58:06   you where it's getting compressed and recompressed and down res and who knows what else is happening

00:58:11   by the time it reaches you. Whereas this is just straight up coming from Apple's CDN,

00:58:18   Apple stream partners wherever they are. And as a result, it felt really good. Like it

00:58:24   was, it looked good. It was high resolution. I don't know if it was 4K, it might've just

00:58:29   been 1080, but like on one level it didn't matter. It looked good because the bit rate

00:58:34   and a lack of recompression, I just thought it looked great. And I think most people did.

00:58:39   So those are the positives about it.

00:58:41   I do want to say on the ads, because you mentioned the ads, my belief is that internationally

00:58:46   there were no ads, right?

00:58:48   No, internationally there was just a card that said "Be right back," basically.

00:58:51   Yeah.

00:58:52   And they didn't see the ads, which I think is because MLB Network only sold those. I

00:58:57   I think that MLB Network just put it in their existing ad deals and rolled it in.

00:59:04   Those deals are for the US or maybe for North America or US and Canada maybe.

00:59:11   They just rolled those in.

00:59:13   That is one of my complaints actually, one of my big complaints is where I thought that

00:59:17   this wasn't very good, it was because it felt like it was something taken from MLB Network

00:59:23   stock and brought over.

00:59:26   It's possible that this deal came together late enough that there was only so much that

00:59:32   Apple could ask them to change up front, to customize for them.

00:59:37   Because this is like a white label version of a baseball game, so they have to customize

00:59:41   it and Apple's like, "Okay, San Francisco."

00:59:45   In fact, I would love to know the story sometime.

00:59:47   My guess is that somebody at Apple designed the graphics and then handed them to MLB.

00:59:52   It's either that or somebody at MOB was told, "Here's the San Francisco font family. Make

00:59:57   this look like an Apple thing." But either way, somebody tried to make like, "What is

01:00:02   the most Apple-like version of baseball graphics that we could do?" And they have rounded rectangles

01:00:08   and it's all in San Francisco.

01:00:09   No, I feel like Apple made those. I feel like that's got to have come from them.

01:00:14   I don't know because I don't know if there's anybody at Apple who is aware of, you know,

01:00:19   who's a designer who is qualified for that.

01:00:21   But yes, I think at the very least,

01:00:23   it was a collaboration, right?

01:00:24   It was a collaboration of some sort

01:00:26   between somebody at MLB Network and Apple

01:00:28   in terms of the graphics.

01:00:29   And they look pretty good.

01:00:30   But yeah, all my disappointments are about stuff

01:00:33   that feels like it was just brought over

01:00:34   without a whole lot of thinking from MLB Network.

01:00:37   The ads are number one.

01:00:38   - Here's my question for you about this ads thing.

01:00:41   'Cause I'm intrigued and kind of a bit surprised by it.

01:00:44   Currently, Friday night baseball is free.

01:00:48   - Eventually it won't be.

01:00:50   It's gonna be part of Apple TV+.

01:00:52   - That is, yes, eventually.

01:00:53   We don't know when, we don't know if this whole season,

01:00:55   they've only, they released the schedule

01:00:58   for the first half of the season

01:01:00   and said these will all be free.

01:01:02   We don't know whether the rest of the season will be free

01:01:05   or if that's the moment when they'll lower the paywall back.

01:01:08   We just don't know.

01:01:10   'Cause they could just say,

01:01:12   this is a great loss leader for us

01:01:14   to get people on Apple TV's platforms

01:01:17   And so we're gonna, and it blunts some of the criticism

01:01:22   of like, what do you mean I need another streaming service?

01:01:24   If you can say, no, no, no, it's free, it's free.

01:01:26   You don't have to pay for another streaming service.

01:01:28   So will they go the whole year or will they drop it?

01:01:31   But at some point they will drop it.

01:01:32   They've said at some point they will drop it

01:01:34   and you will need to pay to see Friday Night Baseball.

01:01:39   - And then, are they gonna keep putting ads in the broadcast?

01:01:43   'Cause that doesn't feel right to me.

01:01:45   - Right, right.

01:01:46   I mean, there's another argument to be made about like

01:01:49   whether ultimately Apple might even offer something

01:01:51   like you can watch them for free with ads,

01:01:53   but subscribers get it without the ads or something like that.

01:01:55   - I feel like if they're gonna do that though,

01:01:57   they wanna be in charge of the advertising, right?

01:01:59   - Yeah, so this is one of those things

01:02:01   that I don't know what Apple's philosophy is,

01:02:03   and it may be that it's written into the contract

01:02:05   that they're like, okay, it'll be, yes,

01:02:07   you're gonna sell the ads

01:02:10   and you're gonna put the ads in and it's fine.

01:02:13   It could also be that it was just expediency,

01:02:14   'cause don't forget, everything about the rhythm

01:02:17   of a baseball broadcast is tied around

01:02:19   between every half inning there is an ad break.

01:02:21   The announcers have that time to go to the bathroom

01:02:25   and like there's so many things.

01:02:27   And what do you do if you have to fill all that time?

01:02:30   It would be a very different kind of broadcast.

01:02:32   Doesn't mean you can't do it.

01:02:33   I know Facebook definitely tried it

01:02:34   when Facebook had some exclusive games the last few years.

01:02:37   You can do a different kind of thing.

01:02:39   Maybe that's who your sideline reporter does

01:02:41   their human interest story about a player

01:02:44   is in the inning breaks, or they interview somebody

01:02:46   who's on the bench or something like that.

01:02:48   There are ways to do it.

01:02:50   This broadcast, at least week one,

01:02:52   does not attempt any of those.

01:02:53   And those are the things that I really could complain about.

01:02:58   Is it's far, for my money,

01:03:01   far too conventional a baseball broadcast.

01:03:03   Like it's reassuring in one way.

01:03:04   It's just like, oh, I've seen this before.

01:03:06   But honestly, Friday Night Baseball,

01:03:08   I feel like what Apple wants to happen

01:03:10   is for people to feel like it's not what they've seen before

01:03:12   and that it's a cut above.

01:03:13   And in some ways it is, they are stacked announcer groups,

01:03:18   right, four announcers essentially,

01:03:21   three in the booth and a sideline reporter.

01:03:23   All those cameras, it looks great.

01:03:25   They got all the custom graphics

01:03:27   and then they roll an ad for Subway, right?

01:03:29   And it's like, okay, what are you doing here?

01:03:32   The coming on the air for the pregame show

01:03:35   and you know, studio pregame shows are not my thing.

01:03:39   I think they're all kind of bad.

01:03:41   their pregame studio show was bad.

01:03:43   Like I didn't think,

01:03:44   the host interaction seemed kind of forced.

01:03:46   They were yelling.

01:03:47   It's all pretty much stock for a pregame show.

01:03:50   I just hate those.

01:03:51   But it was also sponsored by a betting company.

01:03:55   And I thought, well, that's kind of crappy.

01:03:57   And it was in the content.

01:03:59   So it's like sponsored by the betting company.

01:04:00   Okay, that's great.

01:04:02   And then they rolled the ads and that was kind of crappy.

01:04:04   And then the actual game had a sponsor.

01:04:06   It was presented by some Q, I think,

01:04:10   which is like a health thing.

01:04:11   I don't know, it wasn't EdiQ, but it was something like that.

01:04:16   And I thought, I don't know, I'm not one of these people

01:04:20   who's like, oh, I don't want ads, keep the ads away from me.

01:04:23   Like, I get it.

01:04:24   - My issue isn't the ads.

01:04:26   My issue is just like, you know, my question.

01:04:30   We spend so much time thinking

01:04:31   and talking about this company, right?

01:04:33   They are incredibly particular.

01:04:36   The idea of them giving control to MLB at all

01:04:40   is not surprising, it's surprising in a way,

01:04:43   but I understand it, right?

01:04:44   That like they want to at least have people

01:04:46   that know how to make this content make it.

01:04:48   - Oh yeah.

01:04:49   - But the idea that they would allow for ads for companies

01:04:52   that they're not having any approval over or whatever

01:04:55   to be inserted into something

01:04:56   that's going on their streaming service,

01:04:58   it just goes against what I would have imagined.

01:05:00   - And that's why I say, I think it's expediency,

01:05:02   unless it was like a deal breaker

01:05:04   in their contract with MLB,

01:05:05   but it feels to me like expediency.

01:05:07   It feels to me like Apple probably had a bunch of things

01:05:10   that they wanted to ask for and MLB network was like,

01:05:12   "Guys, we gotta do this in three weeks.

01:05:15   We can't, we can't."

01:05:18   And so what we need to watch over the life of this season

01:05:23   is what did they adjust?

01:05:25   Because like, yeah, to me, if I were the, again, I'm not,

01:05:30   but if I were the Apple executive who is in charge

01:05:32   of the MLB relationship, I would be unhappy

01:05:37   that the first thing that went on my live stream

01:05:40   was Bet MGM presents the pregame show for Apple,

01:05:44   Friday night baseball, like ugh.

01:05:47   And like, I know, I'll say for the people who don't know,

01:05:50   who haven't watched American sports broadcast recently,

01:05:53   betting stuff is everywhere.

01:05:54   The legalization of betting in some parts

01:05:57   of the United States has led to a land grab

01:06:00   for betting stuff.

01:06:02   But the pregame show was sponsored by a casino.

01:06:06   It had a whole segment where there was an expert

01:06:09   telling you the odds of various things happening.

01:06:11   And again, it used to be, they would couch that stuff

01:06:14   and they would just talk about what the possibilities were.

01:06:16   And now they just say, here's the betting line.

01:06:18   So they've just, all the mask has come off

01:06:21   of some of this stuff.

01:06:22   That was always kind of betting related,

01:06:24   but we pretended it was more just,

01:06:26   I wonder what will happen

01:06:27   instead of place your bets everybody.

01:06:29   And again, as an Apple executive,

01:06:32   I would look at that and be like,

01:06:34   you know, that makes me uncomfortable.

01:06:35   I know that that works

01:06:36   because there's so much money in the betting thing,

01:06:38   but this is a brand building thing for us.

01:06:41   I am frankly a little surprised,

01:06:43   not that there are ad breaks in the game,

01:06:47   because I think that it is part of the rhythm of the game.

01:06:50   I was surprised that it wasn't just an Apple TV ad

01:06:53   for Slow Horses or something like that.

01:06:55   Now that ad was in there,

01:06:57   but it was preceded by like three or four other ads

01:07:00   that were just off of whatever MLB network

01:07:03   seems to have sold.

01:07:04   And I don't know, if I could zero in on something

01:07:07   that I think Apple could do a better job with,

01:07:08   it's that stuff.

01:07:09   It's like, use the inner inning breaks

01:07:14   for something other than running commercials

01:07:16   because it differentiates your broadcast.

01:07:19   And if it's pre-rolled videos

01:07:22   or it's Apple TV promos or whatever,

01:07:24   if it's something that's not just a bunch of cable ads,

01:07:28   because the cable ads really did not make it feel special,

01:07:30   it did show off the image quality

01:07:32   because the quality of the cable ads

01:07:33   that they rolled in were terrible.

01:07:35   and the quality of the game was really high.

01:07:37   So it showed us that.

01:07:40   But that would be something I would try to push

01:07:42   and say, we need to be less regular here.

01:07:44   And honestly, Apple, whatever money you're getting

01:07:47   kicked back to you by MLB, rolling you into the BET MGM

01:07:52   sponsorship of your show, just don't do it.

01:07:56   Just don't do it.

01:07:57   It's muddying up your thing.

01:08:00   And in the long run, if this is for your paid service,

01:08:03   I just think it's unfortunate if you would

01:08:05   junk this up when you're trying to stand out.

01:08:07   So I wouldn't do that.

01:08:08   They did, by the way, they did have a crash.

01:08:10   - Okay.

01:08:11   - The stream died for about a minute,

01:08:12   but I think that what we've learned in covering streaming

01:08:14   is everybody who does their first live stream

01:08:17   doesn't properly gauge what the demand will be at the peak

01:08:20   and they have a crash.

01:08:22   It only lasted a minute and then it was fine

01:08:24   as far as I could tell the rest of the time.

01:08:25   So, you know, they'll learn and they'll get better,

01:08:28   but I was not shocked that there was a moment

01:08:31   where everything went down

01:08:32   because that happens literally to everybody who tries it.

01:08:36   Any like soccer or football or whatever has happened,

01:08:39   everybody gets that moment where they're like,

01:08:40   "Oh, we didn't realize that, yeah,

01:08:42   there's a lot of people watching live."

01:08:44   Thought the announcers were good.

01:08:48   Like I said, they haven't worked together before,

01:08:49   so they need time, but I think they're gonna get it.

01:08:51   It sounds like they're going to be the crews for the season.

01:08:54   A lot of people are complaining.

01:08:55   - Are they people?

01:08:56   Like, are they people that you know?

01:08:58   - They're not people.

01:08:59   There are people who are in the game

01:09:01   around the game as broadcasters in some form, but are not like, this is not like Amazon

01:09:07   hiring Al Michaels to do Thursday Night Football. This is sort of up-and-coming people.

01:09:13   They didn't like bring in some legend. They didn't bring in the heroes. The announcers

01:09:19   are not the headliners here, right? Which I think might be a part of this, although

01:09:23   I think part of it too is it's MLB Network doing the hiring, and they're hiring people

01:09:29   to do work for them, including Apple stuff. Like the lead announcer on the first game,

01:09:36   she does TV work for the Orioles, but she also now is going to be the lead announcer

01:09:40   for one of these games, and she's going to do some studio work for MLB Network, so they're

01:09:45   her employer for that, including this stuff. But I thought one of the criticisms that she

01:09:53   she handled really well is about local announcers.

01:09:56   'Cause Melanie, I forget her last name.

01:10:01   She tweeted on Friday and she said,

01:10:04   "I'm so happy that I'm gonna be doing

01:10:06   these Friday night baseball games

01:10:07   and working for MLB network."

01:10:09   And I told my mom and dad who are Mets fans

01:10:12   that I was doing the game tonight.

01:10:14   And their response was,

01:10:15   "I'm sad that the usual guys aren't going to do it."

01:10:18   (laughing)

01:10:20   - Okay, fair enough.

01:10:21   And this is truth, right?

01:10:24   Like people love their local announcers.

01:10:27   I'm a Giants fan, over the weekend,

01:10:29   you know, the season started, turn on the TV,

01:10:32   Myke Krukow, Dwayne Kiper, their voices, so reassuring.

01:10:36   Like it's, oh, now it's not just the team,

01:10:39   it's not just the logos, it's the announcers.

01:10:42   People have a bond with their local announcers.

01:10:43   And by doing an exclusive national

01:10:46   and international broadcast,

01:10:48   that there are no local TV broadcasters for that game,

01:10:53   you are boxing out the fans

01:10:55   who like to hear their local people.

01:10:58   And so her tweet, Melanie's tweet, was really good

01:11:00   'cause she was like, yeah, even my parents are gonna miss

01:11:04   Ron and, oh, I forget who the other announcers, anyway,

01:11:07   they're gonna miss them.

01:11:09   It's like, because of course they are.

01:11:10   So I think that's a good criticism.

01:11:13   I know they're not gonna do this,

01:11:16   but part of me wants to say,

01:11:17   You know, another way you could silence the criticism,

01:11:20   MLB's app lets you overlay the local radio call

01:11:24   on the video.

01:11:25   If you wanna do that, it's kind of amazing, right?

01:11:28   You can be like watching the local TV,

01:11:31   but if you prefer the radio announcers,

01:11:32   you can flip it over to the radio announcers

01:11:34   and listen to them instead.

01:11:35   And I thought, you know,

01:11:36   I know you want your announcers to be at the four,

01:11:39   but one way you could blunt some of the criticism

01:11:43   and say, look, if you're a fanatical Mets fan,

01:11:45   you can turn on the Mets radio at least.

01:11:48   And here's somebody who's rooting for the Mets

01:11:50   instead of trying to provide this national perspective,

01:11:53   which is just sort of how these games,

01:11:54   national and international, right?

01:11:56   These games are meant to broaden the appeal of baseball

01:11:59   and reach people who are not just the fans

01:12:01   of the two teams playing.

01:12:02   And that means they need to tell stories

01:12:03   you've already heard before

01:12:05   and have more banter among the people in the booth.

01:12:08   And people are complaining about it.

01:12:09   Like, I agree that modern baseball broadcasts

01:12:14   on things like ESPN have tended to become a podcast

01:12:18   that is happening with a baseball game going on

01:12:21   in the background.

01:12:23   And there's definitely a level of that that's too much

01:12:25   where like they don't even care what's happening.

01:12:28   They're just having a conversation.

01:12:29   They're bringing in guests to interview and stuff like that.

01:12:32   At least they didn't do that on the Apple broadcast.

01:12:36   You can go too far down that path,

01:12:37   but they're not, if you're a Mets fan

01:12:39   and you're watching that Mets nationals game,

01:12:41   they're not making it for you, right?

01:12:42   They're not making it for you.

01:12:43   They're making it for a broader audience.

01:12:44   And you just, it's just like, if you watched,

01:12:46   if your team was on a Sunday night baseball

01:12:49   or a Fox game of the week,

01:12:51   or back in the day, the NBC game of the week,

01:12:54   like it wasn't your announcers

01:12:55   and they weren't talking to you.

01:12:57   They're talking to the broader audience.

01:12:59   And that's just one of the truths of something like this

01:13:02   is it's gonna be like that.

01:13:04   But I do, to take it back,

01:13:06   whether they do the audio overlay or not,

01:13:08   which I think would be fun and like kind of easy

01:13:11   and just you're saying, look, if you really hate it,

01:13:14   you can flip to your local audio.

01:13:16   It would be a fun technological solution.

01:13:19   And that's my other complaint,

01:13:21   other than it all seems very generic.

01:13:22   And I know that this happened quickly,

01:13:24   but that I think Apple needs to prod their producers

01:13:27   to do better and make it more unique.

01:13:29   And I think that the ad clutter is part of that.

01:13:32   The other part of it is the technical side,

01:13:35   which is, well, first off,

01:13:36   you couldn't pause it on Apple TV,

01:13:39   which is also true of Apple's live stream events,

01:13:41   by the way, which is a little bit strange.

01:13:43   But for a baseball game, say you get home

01:13:45   and the game's been on for an hour,

01:13:47   you wanna start at the beginning of the game

01:13:49   if you're a fan, and then go through the commercials

01:13:52   and catch up eventually.

01:13:54   You can't do that now.

01:13:56   That seems like a mistake.

01:13:57   They need to work on that technology.

01:13:59   And then there's also nothing interactive going on.

01:14:02   I talked about the graphics that are burned into the screen,

01:14:04   but this is a digital broadcast.

01:14:07   everybody watching it is watching it on a computer device

01:14:11   of some kind, right?

01:14:12   I think they really need to look into ways to push that too.

01:14:17   Like if I wanna see different overlays,

01:14:19   maybe I should be able to do that.

01:14:21   If I wanna like the live stats overlay at the bottom,

01:14:24   or if I want the crazy betting stuff, whatever,

01:14:27   it would be fun if I had some options to do stuff like that.

01:14:30   And currently it's a really vanilla live stream.

01:14:36   So I hope that Apple pushes on the tech side.

01:14:39   I accept the fact that this deal has probably

01:14:41   only been finalized for a few weeks

01:14:43   and that they had to take a bunch of stuff off the shelf

01:14:46   and make their choices about what they were going to do.

01:14:49   But in the long run, I think whoever at Apple

01:14:53   is in charge of this and whoever at MLB network

01:14:56   is in charge of producing it need to work together.

01:14:59   And it depends on how much Apple as the client

01:15:03   can demand changes and what's in the contract.

01:15:06   But I think it was a good broadcast

01:15:11   and I think it will improve.

01:15:13   And it looks like they spent a lot of money on it,

01:15:15   look great, lots of cameras,

01:15:16   good announcers who are gonna get better,

01:15:19   even though they're not your favorite local announcers.

01:15:22   But that's the one that I would put up there is,

01:15:24   it doesn't feel different enough.

01:15:26   It feels disconcertingly like a generic

01:15:29   MLB network broadcast at points.

01:15:32   And I think that that's where Apple needs to push and say,

01:15:36   okay, now that we've gotten to this point,

01:15:38   next week we're gonna do this to make it better.

01:15:40   And some of that's on Apple, right?

01:15:42   Apple's gonna have to do some work on the live stream

01:15:45   to see if you can start from the beginning in the TV app.

01:15:50   And if they wanna do overlays,

01:15:51   they've gotta build that stuff in too.

01:15:53   They've gotta have a data stream for that.

01:15:54   The MLB app has it, but Apple's TV app doesn't have it.

01:15:58   So it's all, there's a lot for it to get better,

01:16:02   but in the end, it wasn't a disaster.

01:16:04   It was a professionally produced broadcast that looked good,

01:16:06   had lots of cameras, lots of announcers.

01:16:08   There was a lot positive to be said,

01:16:10   but I think it also,

01:16:12   I hope very much that it is a starting point for them

01:16:14   and not the end point for the whole season,

01:16:17   'cause that would be unfortunate.

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01:17:41   I have some #AskUpgrade questions to finish out today's episode.

01:17:45   The first comes from Ryan.

01:17:48   In the next five years, which do you think Apple is more likely to do to the Magic Mouse?

01:17:54   A. A new industrial design, a la the new Apple remote.

01:17:59   B. Leave it exactly as it is right now.

01:18:02   Or C. Discontinue it altogether.

01:18:05   More likely to do.

01:18:08   I'm gonna go with B, leave it as it is.

01:18:13   Only because I think that,

01:18:16   how long has it already been out?

01:18:20   It's been out forever.

01:18:21   I think it's an inertia thing.

01:18:22   It's like, is there a new problem that they can solve?

01:18:25   I mean, yeah, undoing the charger on the bottom

01:18:28   would be a great thing.

01:18:29   But like, is there anybody inside Apple?

01:18:31   I don't know.

01:18:32   I've met people who work on the input devices team.

01:18:35   They care about this stuff.

01:18:36   but I wonder if there is really a really will at Apple

01:18:40   to do a new hardware design for a mouse.

01:18:43   Like I think the trackpad is favored by people at Apple.

01:18:47   I think that they feel they need to offer a mouse,

01:18:50   but are they really gonna do it?

01:18:51   Like if I had to pick most likely,

01:18:54   I think status quo is most likely.

01:18:56   I would love to see them redo it, I guess.

01:18:59   I don't care, I don't use a mouse.

01:19:01   I literally don't care about this product,

01:19:03   but I know that it is the butt of many jokes

01:19:07   because of where you have to charge it.

01:19:09   And it's a lightning port

01:19:10   and are they eventually gonna move off the lightning port?

01:19:13   But I don't know if I had to choose

01:19:16   and especially if I had to put money on it,

01:19:17   I would go with inertia.

01:19:19   I would go with B, just nothing will change

01:19:22   and it will be sold forever.

01:19:25   What about you?

01:19:26   - So I think a new industrial redesign is the least likely.

01:19:30   And then I'm trying to work out,

01:19:32   Do I think leave it as is or just discontinue it?

01:19:35   Now at some point- - I think they gotta offer

01:19:36   a mouse though.

01:19:37   I think they gotta offer people a mouse who want a mouse

01:19:39   'cause people use mice.

01:19:40   I think they do- - But you could just buy a mouse.

01:19:42   - But they bundle it with their computers.

01:19:45   See, that's the trick.

01:19:46   If they didn't include a mouse or a trackpad or keyboard

01:19:49   with their computers, I think they could just kill it.

01:19:52   But they do.

01:19:53   They do include it.

01:19:54   - Yeah, but they could just say, we give you a trackpad.

01:19:57   - They could. - That's what we give you.

01:20:00   - I mean, they could.

01:20:00   I think that they feel like they have to offer the mouse

01:20:04   as an option, but you know, yeah, they could.

01:20:06   They could be like, no, mice are old school.

01:20:09   We are all about the trackpad now.

01:20:11   - Because they really are all about the trackpad, right?

01:20:13   Like they really are.

01:20:14   And I will just say, if you have a Mac

01:20:17   and have never used a trackpad, do yourself a favor.

01:20:21   Especially if you're using the Magic Mouse.

01:20:24   Now, look, I'm not gonna,

01:20:26   I don't care about the charging, right?

01:20:27   Whatever.

01:20:28   And I'm sure that the Magic Mouse is good because it has some of the gesture support

01:20:33   built in.

01:20:34   But that Magic Mouse is an absolute travesty of ergonomics.

01:20:38   It is terrible.

01:20:41   I don't understand how people use it in the long term because it is just not a comfortable

01:20:47   thing to hold in your hand.

01:20:48   You want something that can be more molded.

01:20:52   My pick of it is the previously mentioned Logitech MX Master 3.

01:20:55   That's my favorite mouse.

01:20:56   I have a bunch of them.

01:20:57   I use them.

01:20:58   using it for years. But yeah, I think maybe if I had to put money on it like you, I would

01:21:05   say they're just going to leave it. But I would also say it's very close to me. My gut

01:21:10   says that they would just get rid of it, but I do think you can't bet against inertia sometimes.

01:21:16   Yeah.

01:21:17   We're a bit, we're up in the sky today. We're in the conceptual lands. We have another question

01:21:22   is from Tony. Tony wants, "What is the next mistake on the level of killing the Mac Pro

01:21:29   that you could see Apple making with the Apple Silicon processor transition?" Now I'll give

01:21:33   a bit more context in case this didn't make complete sense. So if you remember, towards

01:21:37   the end of the Intel era, they just, I think, it was like the five year anniversary of this,

01:21:43   we'll just talk about it and connect it, this is when Apple had kind of made their decision

01:21:50   they were going to be getting rid of the Mac Pro, replacing it with the iMac Pro, right?

01:21:54   Then realized people were very unhappy in general at the moment.

01:21:59   And then so at the same time said, "Hey, we're making this iMac Pro," which was very clearly

01:22:02   the replacement, "but also we're going to make a new Mac Pro."

01:22:06   And this was clearly a decision that they had made that set a course of action that

01:22:12   when they reverted that transition, so that course of action, we got to where we are now.

01:22:18   So it's like a pretty pivotal point.

01:22:20   So can you imagine, do you have any kind of thought

01:22:24   on what a huge mistake or a mistake that they could make

01:22:29   during the Apple Silicon era that could cause

01:22:32   this kind of going off the rails?

01:22:34   - Yeah, I mean, it's hard to imagine something

01:22:39   as far off the rails as what they were, right?

01:22:42   - Especially considering they'd already done it, right?

01:22:44   Like it's gonna be in recent memory.

01:22:47   'cause I could make a ridiculous thing that they won't do,

01:22:50   but if they did it, it would be on this level, right?

01:22:52   And so that would be something like,

01:22:54   they decide that their new laptops are going to have

01:22:57   a second screen where the keyboard was,

01:23:01   and it's gonna be a touchscreen,

01:23:03   and it will be a keyboard, but it can be other stuff too,

01:23:06   and it's gonna be like this great foldable design,

01:23:09   and there are no physical keys on it.

01:23:11   And that would be on the level of what they did,

01:23:15   not with the killing of the Mac Pro,

01:23:16   but with the butterfly keyboard, right?

01:23:18   But I don't think you're gonna do that.

01:23:19   - I could actually argue as well

01:23:21   that the MacBook was as bad

01:23:23   because it set this chain of events for the laptop line,

01:23:27   which people rallied against.

01:23:28   - Yeah, although I like the MacBook

01:23:30   and the keyboard was understandable on the MacBook.

01:23:34   But the problem was that then Apple was like,

01:23:36   "Great, we'll put it everywhere."

01:23:37   Which by the way, that's a little bit of an echo

01:23:39   of the center stage camera on the studio display, right?

01:23:42   Where Apple takes a part designed

01:23:45   for a particular purpose and fall so in love

01:23:48   with their clever engineering that they put it everywhere,

01:23:50   including maybe places it shouldn't have gone,

01:23:52   very similar, little harmony there.

01:23:54   But I'm not gonna say that the camera on the studio display

01:23:57   is the answer to this question either,

01:23:58   'cause it has nothing to do with the processor transition.

01:24:00   Here's my answer.

01:24:01   Never, ever, ever making an iMac bigger

01:24:04   than this 24-inch iMac.

01:24:06   Missing that market, I think would be a huge mistake.

01:24:10   I think it would be a mistake on the same level

01:24:11   as the Mac Pro, which is here is a user base

01:24:14   that wants this product,

01:24:15   that has spent a decade liking this product.

01:24:17   And no, we will not make an iMac at 27 inches or greater.

01:24:22   We just won't.

01:24:24   Get the 24 or too bad,

01:24:27   buy an external display and another computer

01:24:30   and do that instead.

01:24:31   And I think that would be a mistake.

01:24:33   I think they would be turning their back

01:24:34   on a big part of their last decade of Mac sales.

01:24:39   I believe they're not gonna do that

01:24:43   and they're just biding their time.

01:24:45   But I would say that that would be

01:24:47   something happening to one of their products

01:24:51   in defiance of user desires

01:24:54   that would be a big mistake for them.

01:24:57   - And I don't, I agree, that's a really great one.

01:25:01   It's better than anything I was gonna come up with.

01:25:03   The thing that I was wondering with this question is like,

01:25:08   what if a mistake that they make is what is the new Mac Pro?

01:25:11   Like what if they just completely whiff on it again?

01:25:14   I don't know.

01:25:15   - Yeah, yeah, I mean, no, that's a good one,

01:25:17   is what if they make a new Mac Pro,

01:25:20   again, they say that now they're listening,

01:25:22   they've got their people in-house,

01:25:24   they're listening to pro customers.

01:25:25   It's hard to look at the Mac Studio and not think,

01:25:27   well, they must have an exact idea of who the Mac Pro is for

01:25:30   because the Mac Studio fulfills so many of the needs.

01:25:33   So it's like, what is that and how do they execute on it?

01:25:35   And you're right in terms of the processor transition,

01:25:39   like what is their vision for like what,

01:25:41   not only what a Mac Pro is,

01:25:43   but like what they can do with a Mac Pro

01:25:45   given their processor architecture.

01:25:48   And it's possible that the compromises

01:25:51   that they may have to make

01:25:52   because of their processor architecture

01:25:54   will be looked at by the potential buyers of the Mac Pro.

01:25:56   And they'll be like, "Yeah, no, like, no,

01:26:01   I get why you did it this way.

01:26:03   This is not giving us what they want, what we want.

01:26:06   Sorry, I'm being them in this scenario.

01:26:08   This is not giving us what we want.

01:26:09   We need this.

01:26:10   I know that why you can't do it because of Apple Silicon,

01:26:12   but we need it and you didn't give it to us.

01:26:15   And they end up sort of saying,

01:26:16   we got to stick with Intel for the time being,

01:26:18   'cause you didn't do it.

01:26:20   Like I would like to think that they won't do that,

01:26:23   but the truth is there are gonna be some compromises

01:26:26   in the Mac Pro where I think people are gonna say,

01:26:28   oh, why did they do it this way?

01:26:30   And the answer is gonna be, well, Apple Silicon,

01:26:32   this is how they built their whole architecture.

01:26:35   And they might try to get there eventually,

01:26:37   but like, are they gonna undercut the whole direction

01:26:42   of Apple Silicon for one computer

01:26:45   that's used by a tiny fraction of their audience?

01:26:48   And so that is, you know,

01:26:50   and that's actually why I mentioned the iMac

01:26:52   is 'cause I think that there's just a much larger iMac,

01:26:54   a larger audience for a larger iMac

01:26:56   and it will offend more users,

01:26:59   more Mac customers than the Mac Pro.

01:27:04   But, you know, they could botch the Mac Pro.

01:27:07   I wouldn't even say botch.

01:27:08   I think the Mac Pro being unpleasantly received

01:27:13   by that audience, if it happens,

01:27:16   it will be a function of the limitations

01:27:20   and the philosophy of the Apple Silicon processors

01:27:24   themselves, right?

01:27:26   That it will emerge from the choices Apple has made

01:27:28   on the iPhone and the iPad, and now on the Mac,

01:27:31   building this processor system

01:27:33   with all this stuff that's integrated.

01:27:35   And you look at the Mac Pro and you're like,

01:27:36   well, you gotta unravel a bunch of that, right?

01:27:39   Like you gotta, your advantages elsewhere

01:27:42   like are disadvantages now because you've got,

01:27:44   we've got to use your GPUs and you know,

01:27:46   what is the memory story and all of that.

01:27:49   I think that's where they risk angering

01:27:52   the Mac Pro audience, but my money's on the 27 inch.

01:27:55   - Darren wants to know, Jason,

01:27:57   if you were making the 20 max list today,

01:28:02   I don't know, let's say you're doing 22 max for 2022, right?

01:28:05   - You've never done 20 Macs, right?

01:28:08   Let's just imagine you'd never done that list

01:28:10   you're doing it today.

01:28:12   Would any of the Apple Silicon Macs make the list?

01:28:15   - I would have to, so, you know,

01:28:18   the whole purpose of 20 Macs for 2020

01:28:19   was sort of tell stories about different eras in the Mac.

01:28:22   So I would have to pick an Apple Silicon Mac

01:28:24   so I could tell the story of Apple Silicon,

01:28:26   which we've all just lived through.

01:28:27   But, you know, keeping an eye toward history,

01:28:30   that would be the thing that I would do.

01:28:31   Which one I would pick?

01:28:33   I don't know.

01:28:35   I don't know.

01:28:36   I would probably pick the MacBook Pro

01:28:42   because it would allow me to tell the whole story

01:28:47   about like the butterfly keyboard and the ports complaints.

01:28:52   It would let me talk about Apple Silicon,

01:28:55   but also talk about it in the sense of not just the M1,

01:28:59   but the M1 Pro and the M1 Max.

01:29:02   And the questions about whether Apple

01:29:03   was gonna be able to execute with its processors

01:29:06   at a high enough level

01:29:07   that it would please professional customers.

01:29:10   So that's probably what I would choose

01:29:12   is one of those MacBook Pros,

01:29:15   because there's a lot of stories to tell

01:29:17   about what happened with laptops in the late 2010s,

01:29:21   as well as the Apple Silicon transition.

01:29:23   That would be a pretty meaty topic.

01:29:25   So I think that would be the one

01:29:26   that would maybe best encompass it.

01:29:28   And it's got the notch,

01:29:31   It's got the mini LED backlight.

01:29:34   Like there's some interesting things

01:29:35   that are new technologically.

01:29:36   It doesn't have the touch bar,

01:29:38   so it lets me tell the touch bar story.

01:29:40   That would be like a three-parter about that.

01:29:42   There's so much embedded in that one computer

01:29:45   that would be worth telling.

01:29:49   So yeah, I would probably choose that one.

01:29:52   - Not my list, but that's what I would have gone with too.

01:29:55   Like if I was choosing, it would be out of the iMac

01:29:58   because of the way it looks.

01:30:00   and the MacBook Pro, because I feel like the first ones,

01:30:04   they're not as interesting,

01:30:06   except for the fact that they are historic,

01:30:08   but they're not as interesting.

01:30:10   But I think if it was my list,

01:30:12   I would settle where you had to.

01:30:14   The MacBook Pro is the most advanced, right?

01:30:18   And even going back to your review, right?

01:30:22   A Mac Pro in my backpack,

01:30:24   like that alone makes it exciting enough to talk about,

01:30:28   right?

01:30:29   I think that there's a lot to say there and I wouldn't be surprised if you were doing

01:30:36   Atlas today you would pick that.

01:30:38   It just feels like a good one to pick.

01:30:40   I think that would be it.

01:30:42   And Jonah asks, "Why aren't you talking about Severance?"

01:30:45   Well, Severance on Apple TV+ is a TV show that I started watching late and didn't finish

01:30:51   until last night.

01:30:53   So that's why we haven't been talking about Severance.

01:30:56   and I have watched it in the last week.

01:31:00   But we are going to talk about severance on Upgrade Plus.

01:31:03   This is what they call vertical integration.

01:31:05   Go to getupgradeplus.com and if you sign up, not only will you get longer ad-free versions

01:31:11   of every single episode of Upgrade, you will also get to hear us talk about severance.

01:31:15   We're going to talk about that in today's Upgrade Plus segment.

01:31:19   Thank you to everybody that has signed up.

01:31:20   If you haven't, you really should.

01:31:22   There's a lot of great stuff on Upgrade Plus and you also get access to our Discord and

01:31:26   tons of other members only stuff including I would give a little plug

01:31:30   here for Backstage. This is a show that me and Steven do every single month. It's

01:31:34   in the relay FM crossover feed. Previously backstage was like a "hey do

01:31:38   you want to start a podcast of your own? We'll tell you how to do it." Backstage

01:31:42   now is very much like what is going on at relay FM? What are we thinking about?

01:31:46   What are we talking about? What are me and Steven trying to do with our

01:31:50   podcasting company? And so if that kind of stuff interests you I recommend

01:31:55   checking out Backstage which you get for being a Relay FM member no matter what you support

01:31:59   and if you support Upgrade we have Upgrade Plus you get access to it. Getupgradeplus.com.

01:32:05   Thanks to Capital One and Electric and Trade for their support of this week's episode.

01:32:10   Of course thank you for listening. If you want to find Jason online you can go to SixColors.com.

01:32:16   He is @JSnell on Twitter, JSNEELL. Apple results are coming up. Is it like two weeks?

01:32:23   weeks. Two weeks? Can't wait. You know I love it. Can't wait. I know it's your favorite thing.

01:32:28   Favorite thing! Thursday the 28th is the Apple results so May 2nd get ready for some chart talk

01:32:36   right here. Chart time! Chart time with Jason and Myke. Everybody's favorite show. Myke's favorite

01:32:42   show. It is. I am @imike. I am Y-K-E and we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye Jason

01:32:48   Goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:32:49   Goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:32:50   [MUSIC]