397: My Favorite Amount of Transistors


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00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 397.

00:00:13   Today's show is brought to you by Electric Text Expander,

00:00:17   Capital One and Membeful.

00:00:19   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:22   - Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:23   It's just you and me again.

00:00:24   Just you and me.

00:00:25   - That's a lie because howdy, y'all.

00:00:28   I'm in Memphis, Tennessee and across the table from me,

00:00:31   the relay FM co-founder, host of connected

00:00:34   and Mac power users, Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:35   Hi Steven.

00:00:36   - Hello, Upgradians.

00:00:38   - We realized today, Steven and I,

00:00:40   that we have not seen an Apple event

00:00:42   in person together since--

00:00:44   - 2017.

00:00:45   - 2017, because we only of us were hanging out together

00:00:48   for WWDCs and for a couple, I think one Steven missed.

00:00:52   - Yeah, 2018 we had a death in the family

00:00:55   and I missed the keynote and I came out

00:00:56   just to do the live show.

00:00:59   And then 2019, I had a press badge.

00:01:01   - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:01:02   I touched the face of Tim Cook

00:01:05   as he released the Mac Pro.

00:01:06   - And Steven's never allowed to go back.

00:01:08   - And today, I touched my Apple TV remote

00:01:10   as I threw it in the river,

00:01:12   as my Mac Pro was--

00:01:14   - Obsoleted! - Obsoleted,

00:01:15   and the value was drained out of it.

00:01:17   - So we just saw the-- - Hey, hey, hey, hey.

00:01:19   Just to be clear, your Mac Pro, they promised,

00:01:21   would be updated with a new model,

00:01:23   Whereas my beloved large iMac was implied to have been disappeared.

00:01:31   So you know, there's levels here is what I'm saying.

00:01:33   Yeah, I definitely want to get to that when we get to that because that was a very interesting

00:01:37   thing.

00:01:38   Alright, but Jason, I do have a #SnowTalk question for you before we get started today.

00:01:42   Do you think we made a good decision by drafting early?

00:01:44   We made the best decision.

00:01:46   This is just your opportunity for us to take a victory lap about the fact that on Monday

00:01:51   we made the decision to draft even though we didn't know there was going to be an event

00:01:54   for sure. On Tuesday they didn't announce an event and we looked at each other like,

00:01:58   "Well, mmm, let's see what happens!" And then on Wednesday they announced the event and

00:02:03   we got to do some victory laps of our own in our own homes. Yep. Good decision. Great

00:02:10   decision. Best decision. However though, I don't know if we would have drafted late if

00:02:14   it would have made much of a difference for what happened, but we can go through the results.

00:02:19   We didn't get any MacPix at all.

00:02:22   - Yeah, late in the week, there was more information

00:02:25   that would have allowed us to be more accurate,

00:02:27   but I think it's more fun for us

00:02:28   to just be dead wrong in public.

00:02:30   I think that's better.

00:02:31   - Because-- - And we, yes,

00:02:32   the MacPix is just a river of blood.

00:02:35   It's all MacMany and MacBook Pro.

00:02:38   - So let's do the draft results.

00:02:40   So this one hurts, Jason, I'm not gonna lie.

00:02:45   - Yeah. - I'm hurt by this one.

00:02:47   I was convinced that I had beat you.

00:02:49   the tightest possible oh yeah it did in in the end it came down to the literally

00:02:53   the last seconds of the video this one yeah maybe hurts more than any in a long

00:02:58   time because I was convinced I'd won and then they pulled out and showed the

00:03:02   rainbow stage and you screamed in terror I actually think I can't say on the show

00:03:09   that's how that's how I felt when John Ternus appeared by the way it was like

00:03:13   no no no no we don't want to see him get him out that one felt like a lock though

00:03:16   for me like yeah yeah yeah I wish I was kicking myself because I should have

00:03:20   picked the chip lab like I always do where Johnny Shrooji like I always do

00:03:23   but didn't do it well it wasn't that set really that there was gonna be new chips

00:03:27   like I don't think that we had like a transparent wall with like an airtight

00:03:33   lab in case I don't know some of the chips escape into the air I don't know

00:03:37   what was going on there but yeah so so we we totally blew that the whole max

00:03:44   section was wrong. Everything. Because there was no MacBook Pro, there was no

00:03:48   Mac Mini. Yeah, right. Our iPhone and iPad picks were okay, you got four and I got

00:03:52   three, so that puts you ahead. Because you got everything right in this

00:03:56   category. New iPhone SE keeps the same design. I joked about it because

00:04:00   unconnected you argued that any minor change was a different design, but which is wrong by the way.

00:04:05   That's correct. But it's the same familiar SE. The new iPad Air supports 5G, the new iPad Air

00:04:13   gets center stage and the new iPhone SE has touch ID,

00:04:15   it does, it has the home button, the home button lives.

00:04:17   I got new iPhone SE announced and supports 5G, correct?

00:04:21   New iPad Air keeps the same design, I got correct.

00:04:24   And I said, of course, that the SE would not look

00:04:26   like the previous SE and it does, so I got that wrong.

00:04:28   So it was four three and that took us to the other picks.

00:04:33   And the other picks, there was one,

00:04:35   I got the first one and the last one

00:04:38   because the event takes place on March 8th,

00:04:41   was one of my picks.

00:04:42   March 8th today. It is, last time I checked. You picked Tim Cook presents

00:04:48   from outside Apple Park, which he did not do. Rough. Yeah, that was a tough one. That

00:04:53   was, I liked that pick too. John Ternus presents a segment, you got that right.

00:04:56   And then my second other pick was The Rainbow Stage is Shown, which it was not

00:05:03   shown until the final pullback at the very end of the event, at which point I

00:05:09   cashed in my fifth point which let it all come down, believe it or not, to the

00:05:17   Colors Are draft. Yeah which is still like I'm fine with the way the Colors

00:05:23   Are draft is going although I'm still a bit like probably just because I'm

00:05:27   hurt because I lost. I do have some like questions over colors of silver in the

00:05:33   studio lines when they they don't offer colors but I'm not gonna fight this

00:05:38   point. They call it silver or actually more to the point in the press release

00:05:41   they say that there are silver and black trackpad and keyboard accessories

00:05:45   available that match and that I think is a fairly strong signal that they consider

00:05:51   them to be silver because the silver matches the thing. You know the thing the

00:05:55   other products you see their color names there's no color names on the product

00:06:00   pages that's all I'm gonna say it's the only thing I'm pointing to the crowd. You

00:06:03   gotta follow the evidence to the accessories which are color matched and

00:06:06   are named so I have some real-time follow-up on the technical spec page

00:06:10   for the Mac studio under finish it says one word silver that will work for me

00:06:15   over there you go that will work for me so so the colors are draft which is

00:06:19   silly but and and are things that you know there was a new blue but not it

00:06:24   wasn't a deep blue sea and they went with they went with some different a

00:06:27   forest green or whatever it is a Sierra green I don't even know what doesn't

00:06:31   matter we didn't pick alpine green alpine green right oh yes the alp the

00:06:34   Alps. Product read iPhone SE and that was one of yours and a space gray iPad

00:06:41   Air and that was one of yours. So you got two points in the colored Zara draft. I

00:06:45   chose green and indeed we got a green iPhone 13. Good call on that Jason.

00:06:52   Good call on that. Yeah I was just feeling like spring is in the air. I will say

00:06:56   when they started showing, because if you remember my sec my other pick for my

00:07:00   like, we came up with our name, right? If you remember, I was arguing between

00:07:05   spring yellow and safari green, and when they showed off the alpine green, there

00:07:11   was a lot of, like, animal stuff, and I'm like, "Oh my god, if they call this safari

00:07:14   green, I quit forever, I'm done." Yeah, well it was close, it was a close one. So that

00:07:20   all brought it down to the, my pick of silver, a boring pick, and by the way, a

00:07:25   a lot of starlight, a lot of starlight and some moonlight

00:07:28   or midnight or whatever, but a lot of starlight.

00:07:31   Starlight is happening people,

00:07:33   but the Mac Studio and the studio display

00:07:38   are both new products and they both come in silver,

00:07:43   which by my account gives me a three, two advantage

00:07:46   in the colors are draft, which pushes me ahead

00:07:49   because you won the over under on the length.

00:07:52   It was just under 60 minutes.

00:07:53   - That was even worse, Jason.

00:07:54   I won the tiebreaker as well.

00:07:56   You know, it's just like, God,

00:07:58   those colors just totally screwed me.

00:08:01   I hate the colors are is what I've decided

00:08:03   for the time being. - That's fair.

00:08:04   - Until the colors are, blesses me, one point.

00:08:07   I hate the colors are. (laughs)

00:08:08   - All right. - Congratulations,

00:08:10   Jaseusnow, and you are winning

00:08:11   the first draft of the year.

00:08:13   - I will leave my pennant where it is.

00:08:14   - Yeah, yeah, you continue to be champion.

00:08:17   All right, we've got a ton of stuff to talk about today.

00:08:19   Let's take our first break,

00:08:20   and then we can start diving in.

00:08:21   I think we might go mostly chronological order today

00:08:24   because Apple did that for a reason too, I think.

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00:09:51   So Apple TV+ was how we started the event.

00:09:56   Apple and Tim, very happy with their content slate.

00:09:58   Oh, Jason, did you know that they've received

00:10:01   some nominations for some awards?

00:10:02   - Oh, interesting.

00:10:03   For the Academy Award, but also the prestigious BAFTAs.

00:10:06   - Very prestigious BAFTAs.

00:10:07   Very prestigious BAFTAs.

00:10:10   Yeah, I mean, look, we knew they were gonna do this

00:10:12   and if they win any Oscars, oh boy,

00:10:14   they might just do a separate event just to talk about that.

00:10:17   I am very excited over there.

00:10:18   We've got a trailer of some upcoming projects

00:10:21   And there was some stuff that I hadn't known in there,

00:10:24   that there was an animated movie

00:10:25   that I don't remember hearing much about called Luck.

00:10:29   - I think this is one of those movies from the studio

00:10:32   with John Lasseter at it that they made the deal with.

00:10:34   - Oh, yeah, okay.

00:10:36   So that's why-- - And I think that's why

00:10:37   it says from the mind of Toy Story and whatever

00:10:40   is like nobody mentioned his name.

00:10:41   - I was thinking, who is that?

00:10:43   And that's why they mention it in a very specific way.

00:10:46   Good call, Jason, yeah, good call.

00:10:48   But the big thing-- - That's what it is.

00:10:50   Friday Night Baseball?

00:10:51   - Yeah, we, Upgradients will know.

00:10:55   And I know Steven is really excited about this story, right?

00:10:58   It's baseball. - Yes.

00:10:59   - He loves his space, Apple.

00:11:00   - He does, he loves it.

00:11:02   So we've been reporting on the rumors, right?

00:11:04   The rumors that Apple is in talks.

00:11:06   And I think what's funny is nobody broke

00:11:08   that the deal was done.

00:11:10   There was a lot of interested bidding on,

00:11:13   and instead they just announced, done deal,

00:11:16   Friday Night Baseball,

00:11:18   which is a very specific kind of package

00:11:20   where they're gonna pick up two games

00:11:21   and they're only gonna be on Apple TV.

00:11:22   They have some sort of exclusivity window to be,

00:11:25   I think we'll get more information about this

00:11:27   now that it's public.

00:11:28   It's also funny because Major League Baseball

00:11:30   is currently locking out its players

00:11:31   in any very bitter labor dispute.

00:11:33   And I thought, well, that Apple money is gonna come up now.

00:11:36   They're gonna be like, look, you guys,

00:11:38   you owners just made more money selling rights, so pay us.

00:11:42   So a little wrinkle to the baseball labor stuff going on.

00:11:46   but this is Apple's first big sports thing

00:11:48   and there's gonna be more, right?

00:11:50   But we've been talking for a while now

00:11:52   about how they were planning on going into live sports

00:11:55   and here we are.

00:11:56   Just rolled right into Apple TV Plus too,

00:11:58   not a special thing or anything,

00:11:59   it's just for Apple TV Plus subscribers.

00:12:01   - 'Cause this is not as big as some of the other stuff

00:12:03   we've been talking about, right?

00:12:04   Where it's like full on rights or taking the ticket,

00:12:08   the NFL ticket, this is like kind of similar-ish,

00:12:11   is this similar-ish to what Amazon's done in the past?

00:12:13   I know they've had some games,

00:12:15   or is that football games, not baseball games?

00:12:17   - Amazon actually has football,

00:12:19   and they have an exclusive starting next season

00:12:22   for Thursday Night Football for the NFL,

00:12:24   and they've got some sports in the UK,

00:12:26   I think they've got some Premier League?

00:12:27   - Yeah, I think. - Soccer,

00:12:28   and there's other stuff going on.

00:12:29   So Amazon's been experimenting in this area for a while,

00:12:32   and Facebook has experimented with a little bit,

00:12:34   which is kinda weird,

00:12:35   but this is Apple's first step into this world.

00:12:38   - But so what is this Friday Night Baseball?

00:12:41   Did somebody have this before?

00:12:43   What is this?

00:12:44   - I think this is the remnants, part of the remnants

00:12:47   of ESPN's former deal with Major League Baseball

00:12:51   where they had some ability to run games

00:12:55   in weeknight time slots.

00:12:57   There was talk about like more slots,

00:12:59   so I think it's interesting that they focused

00:13:01   on the Friday night and maybe somebody else

00:13:03   is going to buy some of the other slots,

00:13:05   but I think, not 100% on this,

00:13:07   I think this comes out of ESPN changing its deal

00:13:10   and not paying for some of those weekday,

00:13:13   weeknight baseball games.

00:13:16   They still got their Sunday night baseball,

00:13:18   but they used to have more weeknights

00:13:19   and I think they dropped them.

00:13:21   - Right, okay.

00:13:22   So this seems, this is like two, is it like random games?

00:13:26   Like, are they gonna be good games?

00:13:28   - I think they, well, I mean,

00:13:29   I think they'll pick two games every week.

00:13:31   I'm also unclear.

00:13:32   I assume that what it's gonna be

00:13:34   is the local announcers doing the games,

00:13:36   but they said exclusive.

00:13:38   So it's quite, a lot of questions here.

00:13:39   in market or out of market.

00:13:41   So is it exclusive like if your local team

00:13:44   is normally on a cable channel,

00:13:45   but you get picked to be an Apple Friday night game,

00:13:48   does that mean your team is not on TV

00:13:50   unless you have Apple TV Plus?

00:13:52   Maybe, or maybe what it means is it's exclusive nationally.

00:13:55   So it'll be on in local markets,

00:13:58   but that Apple will pick it up for everyone else.

00:14:00   And then the question also is,

00:14:01   are they just picking up the local team's broadcast?

00:14:04   Or are they producing their own broadcast for those games?

00:14:08   And I don't know.

00:14:09   Maybe there's more information that's going to be coming out shortly about that, but right

00:14:14   after the event I don't know those details.

00:14:17   But those are the questions to ask about what's coming for that baseball package.

00:14:20   Yeah, I wonder if they're going to do anything like software-wise about that.

00:14:26   So I'm looking at a press release here.

00:14:28   It's "Fans in the US.

00:14:30   A live show in addition to Friday Night Baseball, fans in the US will be able to enjoy MLB Big

00:14:37   beginning, a live show featuring highlights and look-ins airing every weeknight during

00:14:41   the regular season.

00:14:42   Yeah, so that's the NFL Red Zone equivalent for baseball.

00:14:49   So they'll have that where you can, it's basically instead of surfing around and watching

00:14:52   different games, you tune in this show and they will pop into different games, which

00:14:57   is a different kind of experience.

00:14:59   So that's interesting.

00:15:00   And then on top of that they've got their Friday night game, it says "Free from local

00:15:06   broadcast restrictions. And it's gonna be international. So US, Canada, Australia, Brazil,

00:15:11   Japan, Mexico, Puerto Rico, South Korea, and the UK expanding to additional countries at

00:15:15   a later date. That's cool. There you go. With live pre- and post-game shows available to

00:15:20   fans. So yeah, interesting. It'll be This Is Apple taking their first step into a different

00:15:26   world. That's not bad at all. So once we moved, there was nothing else. I was wondering if

00:15:31   we were gonna get maybe the, like, classical music service or anything like that. There

00:15:34   there was no other services stuff.

00:15:36   I thought we were gonna get more services stuff

00:15:39   just 'cause of the way that Tim started the presentation

00:15:42   talking about like entertainment stuff like that,

00:15:43   but this was the end of that for now.

00:15:45   The iPhone was next, we got green and alpine green,

00:15:49   and then the iPhone SE,

00:15:52   which is basically exactly what we expected it to be.

00:15:55   They got 5G and stronger glass, that's--

00:15:58   - Woo! - And A15 bionic,

00:16:00   that's it, right?

00:16:01   - I think the A15's actually the biggest deal here,

00:16:04   because people who are shopping in that price point

00:16:07   for an iPhone, I would imagine the type of people

00:16:09   who are gonna keep an iPhone for a long time,

00:16:12   and A15's gonna have legs on it for a long time.

00:16:16   And I think there's a lot of iPhone SEs kicking about,

00:16:19   and this seems like a great continuation of that brand

00:16:23   into sort of the modern era,

00:16:25   at least in terms of performance, if not the design,

00:16:28   because the design's the same.

00:16:29   But again, I think people want that.

00:16:30   It helps keep the price point down.

00:16:31   So I think it's a very logical step forward for the SE.

00:16:35   - Smaller iPhone with great value.

00:16:38   So Tim, it's the people that like the iPhone SE.

00:16:40   Jason, do you think that this is multiple years now

00:16:43   with this one again, right?

00:16:44   With the modernization of it now?

00:16:46   - I think so.

00:16:47   I think this is,

00:16:48   that's why they make it an iPhone 13 essentially

00:16:51   is because then they can sell this through,

00:16:54   probably spring of 24 ish,

00:16:57   at which point we'll be debating

00:16:58   whether they're gonna bring back this shape

00:17:00   or if it's gonna be maybe the mini design

00:17:04   that coming back at last, I don't know.

00:17:06   But my guess is, yeah, this is a two or three year thing

00:17:08   where they'll let it ride.

00:17:09   'Cause now it's up to date, now it's current.

00:17:12   And then this has been their MO

00:17:13   is they rev it to something that's modern,

00:17:16   not something that's lousy.

00:17:17   And then they just let it sit there for a long time.

00:17:20   - Starting at 429.

00:17:21   - Yeah, more expensive than the old model, I believe.

00:17:25   - Really?

00:17:27   - I think so.

00:17:28   I think that's a little bit more.

00:17:29   I think the old one was at $399,

00:17:32   and my guess is it's that 5G modem.

00:17:34   Are there been reports

00:17:35   that that's the most expensive individual component?

00:17:38   Yeah.

00:17:39   So if we solve, if it's $30 more for 5G,

00:17:42   and we solve for G, G equals six.

00:17:44   Six.

00:17:45   $6.

00:17:46   Oh, wow.

00:17:47   Every G, yeah.

00:17:48   Glad we got that solved.

00:17:49   Or is it that every G, or is G worth $30?

00:17:53   One G is worth 30.

00:17:54   In total.

00:17:54   Yeah, 'cause we're up to five,

00:17:56   'cause we came from four.

00:17:57   - It's 150. - We can go from zero G

00:17:58   to this, zero G to five G.

00:18:01   - Five G, okay.

00:18:02   - Anything else on the iPhone SE, I mean,

00:18:04   I don't really have anything to say about it.

00:18:06   It's cool if you want it, you know,

00:18:07   and like there's people that want it,

00:18:08   but it doesn't excite me as a product.

00:18:10   - And you can have any color you want,

00:18:12   as long as it's midnight starlight or product red.

00:18:14   - iPad Air, M1 chip, super fast compared to the A14 chip.

00:18:19   Center stage, we were expecting this,

00:18:21   12 megapixel ultra wide camera, five G, faster USB-C.

00:18:25   - Yeah, it didn't get Thunderbolt like the Pro.

00:18:29   - Oh yeah.

00:18:30   - So that's still one thing that distinguishes.

00:18:32   For all those people using Thunderbolt with an iPad,

00:18:35   you still want the iPad Pro.

00:18:36   - Yeah, well, that was my feeling at all.

00:18:38   As somebody who just bought a 12.9 inch M1 iPad Pro,

00:18:43   I had that moment of like, oh, you know,

00:18:45   you have that kind of envy moment of like,

00:18:47   oh, but now there's much, people who only spend 599

00:18:50   can now get an M1 iPad.

00:18:52   But then I immediately thought,

00:18:53   It's not like I'm using the super power of the M1

00:18:56   in what I do day to day on my iPad anyway,

00:18:59   even when I use it kind of heavily, it's fine.

00:19:01   And similar with Thunderbolt, it's like,

00:19:03   all right, I've got it, but I actually don't care.

00:19:08   So that's fine.

00:19:09   I feel like the real differentiator

00:19:11   in the iPad Pro right now,

00:19:13   at least at the 12.9 is that display, right?

00:19:16   It's the mini LED high dynamic range display.

00:19:20   and all rumors point to the smaller iPad Pro

00:19:24   getting that too.

00:19:24   So that's a place where the iPad Pro

00:19:26   still can lord it over the iPad Air.

00:19:28   Also, they're doing the same game

00:19:29   that they did last time with the iPad Air

00:19:31   where it's got a low entry price,

00:19:33   but it's for a 64 gig model.

00:19:35   - That's terrible.

00:19:36   I was super mad when I saw that.

00:19:39   - Yeah.

00:19:39   And then you got to step it up, like way up,

00:19:41   at which point you're in iPad Pro territory

00:19:44   if you want more storage.

00:19:45   That's frustrating.

00:19:46   - Yeah, I was hoping that they would, they'd fix that.

00:19:49   I bought Mary, my wife, an iPad Air when it came out,

00:19:52   what, two years ago.

00:19:54   And I was telling Myke, she absolutely loves it.

00:19:56   She likes the color, she likes that it's thin and light,

00:19:58   it's fast, and I don't see a big reason to upgrade to this

00:20:03   if you have an existing iPad Air,

00:20:05   but if you have one of the older body styles,

00:20:08   this seems like maybe the time to jump in.

00:20:10   - Yeah, 64 gigabytes is 599, 256 gigabytes is 749.

00:20:15   It's just, it's too big.

00:20:18   - At which point you could go to the 128 iPad Pro

00:20:21   for $50 more and get other kind of iPad Pro goodness.

00:20:26   At center stage, that's nice.

00:20:28   That's gonna be a theme.

00:20:29   Everybody gets that 12 megapixel camera

00:20:31   in center stage now.

00:20:32   - It's everywhere.

00:20:33   It's everywhere.

00:20:34   - That's good.

00:20:35   It's good.

00:20:36   - But nothing much there.

00:20:38   I mean, so you're saying about the USPC to Thunderbolt thing.

00:20:41   What's the actual realistic difference?

00:20:44   Is that what, like what?

00:20:45   - You can plug in Thunderbolt accessories

00:20:47   and use that speed of a Thunderbolt accessory.

00:20:49   There's compatibility with Thunderbolt

00:20:51   and the speed that Thunderbolt offers over USB.

00:20:55   That's it. - Right.

00:20:56   I think there may also be video resolution differences,

00:20:59   but I'm not sure off the top of my head,

00:21:01   so I don't wanna-- - In terms of output?

00:21:03   - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

00:21:04   Yeah, we got, we'll get to it, the standalone display,

00:21:09   and the iPad is like,

00:21:12   I guess you could probably plug an iPad into it,

00:21:14   but whatever, we're not gonna talk about it.

00:21:17   So, oh well.

00:21:19   - Are you excited about new iMovie?

00:21:20   It's the pro app you've been looking for, right Jason?

00:21:22   That's what you wanted?

00:21:23   Oh no, wait.

00:21:25   - It's kick, I'm kicking myself,

00:21:27   not drafting, iMovie is mentioned in the draft this time.

00:21:32   Go figure.

00:21:33   And then I immediately saw a friend of ours

00:21:35   who works in the entertainment industry saying

00:21:37   there is literally no aspiring filmmaker

00:21:39   who should use iMovie, but it's yay.

00:21:42   They threw it in there.

00:21:43   Good job.

00:21:44   Somebody in the iMovie team is really happy today.

00:21:46   - Hey look, we're speeding through here,

00:21:48   just like Apple did.

00:21:49   There's good reasons.

00:21:50   Got a lot of Mac stuff to talk about.

00:21:52   Should we take our second break and get to it?

00:21:54   - Yeah, let's do it.

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00:23:14   All right, so let's talk about some Mac stuff.

00:23:16   Should we talk about the M1 Ultra?

00:23:18   Yeah.

00:23:19   Now, I wasn't expecting this today, I don't think.

00:23:23   All right, so let's just say we weren't expecting anything today other than like,

00:23:26   by the draft, boring updates.

00:23:29   It's boring machines.

00:23:30   You know, like, that's kind of what we were really expecting,

00:23:33   like this time last Monday.

00:23:35   Um, which like everyone was thinking,

00:23:38   we're gonna get an update to the MacBook Pro and an update to the Mac Mini, which didn't happen in the event.

00:23:42   I don't think anything's on Apple's website.

00:23:44   Things are basically staying as they are for those, which I think actually also makes sense.

00:23:49   To the point that the Intel Mac Mini is still for sale. Okay.

00:23:53   Interesting. Is the iMac still for sale? No, the 27-inch iMac is completely gone from Apple's website. Okay, we'll get to that shortly.

00:24:00   This is, um, I think I did expect that it's possible we would get a high-end Mac Mini or a high-end

00:24:07   end iMac. And I did suggest that it was possible we might see the dual M1 Macs as a high-end

00:24:17   configuration there. I was sort of like toying with that idea of like it's an almost Mac Pro,

00:24:21   but not quite. And that is what we got, but in a new computer. But this is the Jade 2C die

00:24:30   that Mark Gurman wrote about like a year ago. It's two M1 Macs connected together,

00:24:36   And that was the bulk of what Johnny Srouji talked about here, right?

00:24:40   Which is the idea that they have built.

00:24:43   I love this.

00:24:45   It's even more capable than we said.

00:24:46   It has a secret hidden feature.

00:24:47   - Secret, I love that.

00:24:48   It has a secret.

00:24:49   The M1 has a secret.

00:24:51   - Other than Mark Gurman's reporting, it was a secret.

00:24:54   And the idea is that they directly interconnect so that they can share.

00:24:57   They're much faster to share.

00:24:59   So it doesn't behave quite like having two chips on a motherboard.

00:25:02   sort of these two chips that are interconnected together,

00:25:06   and it allows it to be that much faster.

00:25:10   - Is this the biggest chip, do you think?

00:25:13   - I think it will be in the M1 family.

00:25:15   When John Ternus announced, he said,

00:25:16   we're adding one more member to the M1 lineup.

00:25:19   And so my, I mean, if we're gonna go to Speculation Town--

00:25:22   - I would love that. - For a second.

00:25:23   - Let's do it. - Let's take a trip.

00:25:24   - It's down the street from Donkletown.

00:25:26   Was that a train?

00:25:27   - Yeah, it's how you get from Donkletown to Speculation Town.

00:25:28   - It's actually right across the back pasture

00:25:31   from the rumor roundup. Okay, well buckle up cowboys. So they've said the, I mean

00:25:37   Turner said the Mac Pro is like coming at a later date. He basically winked at the

00:25:40   camera. I mean I loved it. We'll get to that too. There should have been a sound effect. So I think we can think about

00:25:46   this M1 Ultra chip. Like where does it leave room for Apple to go faster? And if

00:25:53   this is the last M1 we're gonna see, maybe the M2 line has the ability to

00:25:58   to have four of these, which again, Gurman talked about a quad die setup.

00:26:04   Yeah, a 4C die.

00:26:05   That's right.

00:26:06   And so maybe this M1 Ultra, it rounds out the M1 generation, and maybe in the fall we'll

00:26:12   start seeing M2 products with the crowning achievement there being the M2 Ultra, and

00:26:19   then maybe something even above that.

00:26:20   M2 Extreme.

00:26:21   M2 Infinite!

00:26:22   No, Extreme.

00:26:23   I'm calling it now.

00:26:24   Extreme.

00:26:25   Extreme.

00:26:26   Extreme.

00:26:27   later on. The big chip draft. But I think clearly from the beginning they've had machines

00:26:35   like this in mind. I mean they had that graphic up for a second and it showed their representation

00:26:42   of the die. The M1 is like a postage stamp and then you have the M1 Ultra. It's like

00:26:48   Gray's paper size video. And it really spoke to me like they have really planned all this

00:26:55   from the beginning to have this extremely scalable infrastructure and design and I think

00:27:04   that's going to pay off with this M1 Ultra.

00:27:06   Now we can get to the product it's in, it comes at a price, but if you need that, it's

00:27:11   definitely going to be the best thing going.

00:27:14   Also shows their efficiency in, they're making the chips themselves, they're designing their

00:27:19   products around these chips, and so you're seeing like, here are all the iPhones, they've

00:27:23   got the A15. Here are these iPad Pros and the iPad Air now, we're just gonna stick M1s

00:27:28   in them. We're gonna M1 all the things on the low end. And then higher up we can scale

00:27:34   it up with the Pro, which is basically a binned Max, and the Max, and now the Max Ultra, which

00:27:39   is the, you know, two wide, that they have built this whole family and they built their

00:27:45   products around it and you can start to see the kind of like the efficiency that they

00:27:49   gain from this. But I was really taken by the fact that he said this is sort of the

00:27:56   last chip in the M1 line because I know that Myke and I talked about this last time, but

00:28:01   one of the possibilities for this event really was let's close out the M1 generation. And

00:28:07   then the next event presumably will open up the M2 generation. And I thought that was

00:28:12   interesting that he just came out and said, like, this is the last, essentially, one last

00:28:17   M1 variant and then we go from here and it's not bad for a first generation, right?

00:28:22   No. Go all the way from that little M1 all the way up to this M1 Ultra. And I think it helps keep,

00:28:28   you know, we talked about this on Connected, I think the possible confusion like they have M1

00:28:33   and M2 and they're still obviously going to overlap, but I do kind of think like having

00:28:38   this pause and them saying like this is the top M1, you know, and it's the last M1 we're going to

00:28:45   to see is was the strong inference I think I think that may help clarify it

00:28:50   to people who think about these things in a more serious way than just going

00:28:55   into an Apple store and buying whatever the new MacBook Air is right because

00:28:58   that's what most people are gonna do and that's what most people should do but

00:29:01   kind of having this line of the sand of like this is the M1 range and now we're

00:29:07   gonna probably start back at the beginning with the consumer grade M2

00:29:10   you know maybe this summer or fall. Yeah there's a lot of huge statistics that

00:29:16   like a lot of them are very complicated to me. What Apple are calling the

00:29:21   technology that they're using to interconnect the two M1 max chips is

00:29:26   called UltraFusion so that's the brand name that they've given. We're branding

00:29:30   UltraFusion. UltraFusion. And if I wrote this down correctly that's 2.5 terabytes

00:29:37   per second interprocessor bandwidth. 114 billion transistors which is my favorite amount of

00:29:44   transistors and it can do 800 gigabytes per second memory bandwidth. It has 128 gigabytes

00:29:51   of RAM maximum capability. It is a 20 core CPU with 16 performance cores and 4 efficiency

00:29:58   cores P and E cores as we know them on this show. It has a 64 core GPU 32 neural cores.

00:30:05   This is monstrous.

00:30:08   It is, and it's a little bit ridiculous, and I'm gonna say...

00:30:12   Okay, so we're gonna talk in a moment about the computer that it's in, right?

00:30:18   Some of those statistics are worth keeping for that, because I think it is dependent

00:30:23   on its chassis too, right, to help it go the speeds that it gets to.

00:30:27   So I think the best way to think about it is, this is a Mac Pro chip.

00:30:30   But we have to redefine what a pro Mac is now,

00:30:34   because there's not just the Mac Pro,

00:30:36   there's also this new Mac Studio.

00:30:40   But it's a Mac Pro chip.

00:30:41   And I think it's, I mean, you can tell,

00:30:43   because the price of the M1 Macs configuration

00:30:48   is half of the price of the M1 Ultra configuration.

00:30:51   It's like the chip, like literally the chip,

00:30:54   double the chips, double the price.

00:30:56   - Yes, it's $1,999 versus $3,999.

00:31:01   It's the starting prices for those two chip configurations.

00:31:04   - So the point I wanna make here is,

00:31:06   it's fun to talk about the ridiculous numbers

00:31:10   in the M1 Ultra.

00:31:11   And it is fascinating to see them do

00:31:14   what has been rumored for a year,

00:31:15   which is this interconnecting two high-end

00:31:18   Apple Silicon chips to push it for pro performance.

00:31:22   But let's also be clear.

00:31:24   This is a Mac Pro style chip in the sense also

00:31:27   that it's not necessary, it's extra.

00:31:30   Like most Mac use, even among pros,

00:31:35   does not require this level of performance.

00:31:38   This is for the highest end needs.

00:31:42   And so I would bet that most of the Mac studios sold

00:31:47   will not be configured with the M1 Ultra.

00:31:53   but it's great that it's there.

00:31:55   'Cause that's the whole point of having a high end

00:31:58   of your architecture is for the people

00:32:00   who are the most ravenous.

00:32:02   They give me all the GPUs, give me all the cores.

00:32:05   I need everything.

00:32:06   I need all the memory bandwidth, everything.

00:32:09   They will spend whatever it takes to get it.

00:32:12   And so this sets the new high watermark

00:32:15   for Mac performance.

00:32:16   And that's great.

00:32:17   Now, presumably it will be reset by a Mac Pro

00:32:20   that probably offers,

00:32:22   you could buy all the way up to four M2 extreme

00:32:27   or whatever you guys said.

00:32:28   - Extreme, extreme.

00:32:30   - But I also, when we get to the computer, I wanna say,

00:32:33   you know, don't over-focus on the M1 Ultra

00:32:36   because remember when the MacBook Pro came out

00:32:39   with the M1 Max and we were like, whoa, that's a lot.

00:32:43   Well, that's the base model of this new computer

00:32:47   that came out today.

00:32:48   And most people will not be using the M1 Ultra

00:32:51   even because it's more performance than almost any job needs,

00:32:56   but for the people,

00:32:58   but it is important to offer something all the way up there

00:33:01   because there are people for whom money is no object.

00:33:05   They just want performance

00:33:06   and this thing will give it to them.

00:33:08   - Yeah, a couple of things came to mind

00:33:10   as you were speaking.

00:33:11   First of all, there's a world where the Max Studio

00:33:14   could have been the M1 Pro and M1 Max,

00:33:17   but I think they want an Apple Silicon chip out there

00:33:19   that can meet the needs of those very specific workloads,

00:33:22   like you said.

00:33:23   But the other thing that I picked up in the keynote was,

00:33:27   let's rewind the clock a little bit.

00:33:29   When Apple switched to Apple Silicon,

00:33:30   heck, when they switched to Intel,

00:33:33   a lot of performance per watt, energy savings,

00:33:38   low temperature, all that sort of conversation.

00:33:41   And when they were introducing the M1 Ultra,

00:33:44   I felt like they sort of, they're like, okay,

00:33:46   in most of the machines,

00:33:47   performance per watt is really important.

00:33:49   But in this machine, it's not as important.

00:33:52   If you just look at the core counts,

00:33:54   the 20 core M1 Ultra is 16P14E, or 4E, excuse me.

00:33:59   Just little four little high efficiency chips there

00:34:05   that I'm sure are only there just to keep

00:34:07   the software compatibility the same.

00:34:09   But what we're seeing with this chip is,

00:34:11   okay, let's give Apple Silicon more cooling

00:34:14   than we ever have.

00:34:15   I mean this thing, like, we'll get to the design of it,

00:34:18   but it's built for cooling,

00:34:20   and let's give it just as much power as it wants.

00:34:24   And Apple is even quick to say,

00:34:26   "Well, it's still less power than our PC friends

00:34:28   "over there on the other side of the world."

00:34:31   But this really, to me, I think shows that Apple

00:34:35   is willing to play with that performance per watt number,

00:34:39   and willing to make different decisions

00:34:42   on what the system on a chip and what the product needs,

00:34:45   and that's not something we've seen from them

00:34:48   in recent history.

00:34:50   And I think to me, that's what's most exciting about it is,

00:34:53   they have built this chip and it has very different heat

00:34:56   and energy requirements from the other chips it's based on,

00:34:59   and Apple just went for it.

00:35:00   And that's exciting because again,

00:35:02   it gives me things in my imagination

00:35:05   to consider what the quad would look like

00:35:07   or what a Mac Pro would look like down the road.

00:35:09   - Yeah, I think to build on that a little bit,

00:35:11   I think Apple like to be able to be the best at something.

00:35:16   And when they can be the best at something, they go all out.

00:35:20   And they just couldn't do this with Intel.

00:35:23   Like they couldn't be better than anybody else

00:35:26   because they were working from the same set of tools

00:35:29   that anybody else had available to them.

00:35:31   And so now they can, and they do have the ability

00:35:34   to make the fastest CPUs and GPUs around,

00:35:37   like in their classes, they just keep doing it

00:35:39   and they keep doing it more and more and more

00:35:41   because they can.

00:35:43   So they just do it.

00:35:46   Like, and so they are, I think, you know,

00:35:49   like when you were talking about the Ultra

00:35:51   in the Max Studio, Jason, it was making me think,

00:35:54   like that machine is built, the Max Studio,

00:35:58   to be capable of whatever the Ultra can throw at it.

00:36:01   So then if you put a Max in it, I mean,

00:36:02   you're getting so many of those benefits

00:36:04   just because they had to build it with so much headroom

00:36:07   that it makes the overall experience better.

00:36:09   and that's going to be interesting to see how that ends up spreading out further and

00:36:13   further.

00:36:14   You know, I would argue that the MacBook Pros benefit from this, right?

00:36:16   Like if you get a MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro, you are benefiting because this machine had

00:36:21   to be made to support the M1 Macs, so there's benefit to you there.

00:36:25   So it's interesting how like them just pushing for this performance makes everything more

00:36:29   exciting and I think what is very clear is that the Mac team at Apple is invigorated

00:36:35   top to bottom right now because they are just turning out bonkers stuff.

00:36:39   Well, I was gonna ask Steven, unofficial Mac historian, perhaps official Mac historian,

00:36:45   Steven.

00:36:46   I think it's pretty official.

00:36:47   Official at least.

00:36:48   When's, what was the last new Mac?

00:36:54   Like new Mac with a new, not a replacement of an existing skew.

00:37:00   It would be the 12 inch MacBook.

00:37:03   I was thinking this, but that was called MacBook, and there was another product called MacBook.

00:37:06   But the two shared a name, but nothing in common.

00:37:09   I mean, look, there's one right here and one right there.

00:37:11   But it was the name.

00:37:12   Yeah, but it's a brand.

00:37:13   I'm saying, what was the first new Mac name?

00:37:16   MacBook Pro, probably?

00:37:18   Or iMac Pro.

00:37:19   iMac Pro.

00:37:20   iMac Pro.

00:37:21   It would have been the last one.

00:37:22   iMac Pro is the last new.

00:37:23   Yeah.

00:37:24   And even then, it's like, "Eh, but it's an iMac."

00:37:25   I'm just saying, this doesn't happen that often when you get something where it's broken

00:37:29   out of the grid.

00:37:30   We've spent a long time where they're sort of like,

00:37:32   you got Mac Mini, you got iMac, you got MacBook Pro,

00:37:36   you got MacBook Air.

00:37:37   - They don't do it very often.

00:37:39   - Mac Pro.

00:37:41   - I think we were talking about this in Slack

00:37:42   or iMessage, I think I wrote about it,

00:37:44   like 2022, the year Apple makes a new desktop computer.

00:37:48   It's very strange.

00:37:49   But they, to your point about them being invigorated,

00:37:54   they want to meet the needs of all different types

00:37:57   of Mac users.

00:37:58   And in the Intel world, they were handcuffed a little bit

00:38:03   about how they could do that.

00:38:04   Now, some of that was totally on Apple, right?

00:38:06   They were chipsets and designs Apple could have used

00:38:09   in the Intel era that they didn't, right?

00:38:11   There was room for something like this in the Intel era

00:38:13   and they didn't do it.

00:38:15   Maybe that high-end 2018 Mac Mini got close.

00:38:18   But with this, like, if this, okay,

00:38:20   so if this is the end of the M1 line,

00:38:22   and let's just say the Mac Pro starts with an M2 derivative,

00:38:26   this is the only M1 Ultra machine they may ever ship.

00:38:31   And you know, maybe it comes in an iMac Pro down the road,

00:38:34   but like this chip may not show up in many machines,

00:38:37   but they spent the time and the money and the energy

00:38:41   to make it for this product that's gonna meet the needs

00:38:44   of a lot of people.

00:38:45   I'm just excited about that.

00:38:47   You know, I think Apple makes,

00:38:49   Apple obviously has to make decisions for the masses,

00:38:51   but some of the most interesting decisions they make

00:38:54   are for these smaller groups of users.

00:38:58   And I think the Inland Ultra is like a shining example

00:39:00   of that.

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00:40:18   show in relay FM studio studio studio this is interesting because the way they

00:40:25   positioned it it's like we have created a whole new family of things and I guess

00:40:31   we can maybe assume we might see other things in studio later on but having a

00:40:35   computer and a monitor branding them under one kind of umbrella I love it I

00:40:40   think this is awesome because you know what I have a studio and I'm in one

00:40:43   right now and it's Stevens and Jason has a studio in his garage and I love that

00:40:47   they did that too where it's like studios are all kinds of things to all

00:40:50   different types of people. I love this so much more than pro because pro as a name

00:40:58   especially in computers I think says something that like I have to be a

00:41:02   professional but the work in studios can be creative work it can be side work it

00:41:08   can be something you're trying to work out yourself you don't consider yourself

00:41:12   a professional but hey I'm using this computer in my studio I really love it

00:41:16   - Yeah, it legitimizes that sort of middle ground in a way.

00:41:21   Remember, that was one thing that was so great

00:41:26   about the iMac Pro is that it sort of lived in the space

00:41:30   this machine lives in where it, I mean,

00:41:33   all three of us owned them.

00:41:34   Jason, you're still using one.

00:41:36   It gave people an option when the Mac Pro wasn't viable

00:41:41   and then when it was, but was expensive.

00:41:45   And I mean, don't get me wrong, you can make the Mac Studio,

00:41:49   you can make it pretty expensive,

00:41:51   but it doesn't have to be.

00:41:53   I wrote this thing years and years ago,

00:41:55   I think Jason, with your help probably,

00:41:57   like the 1999 Tower, like the idea that back in like the G5

00:42:02   and early Mac Pro days, you could get a quote unquote

00:42:05   Pro machine with a pretty low entry price,

00:42:08   and that's something that's been missing.

00:42:10   And the Mac Studio fulfills that promise,

00:42:13   but also you can spec it up with the chip,

00:42:14   we just spent 20 minutes talking about

00:42:17   and make it a monster.

00:42:18   And the range this machine seems to have

00:42:21   really honestly is impressive to me.

00:42:25   And I think they've got a winner on their hands.

00:42:28   I'm excited.

00:42:28   - I feel, yeah, I think bringing up the iMac Pro

00:42:32   is interesting 'cause I think you can see in Apple

00:42:35   in the 2010s this sort of struggle

00:42:39   as the Mac Pro got more expensive

00:42:41   because they really did reposition the Mac Pro gradually.

00:42:44   It used to be, right, Power Macs,

00:42:46   like everybody got Power Macs.

00:42:47   Everybody who's an enthusiast, a power user,

00:42:51   like there were so many people, you bought a Power Mac,

00:42:53   you didn't buy an iMac, you didn't buy a Performa

00:42:55   or whatever, you bought a Power Mac, that was the thing.

00:42:57   And that became, so Power Mac became the Mac Pro,

00:43:01   but like as it became, the Power Mac G5 became the Mac Pro

00:43:05   and then it has evolved since then,

00:43:07   like it kept getting more expensive and more esoteric

00:43:10   because the main line of Macs became more powerful.

00:43:15   And, you know, Steven and I know have talked about this

00:43:19   and we did it with 20 Macs for 2020.

00:43:21   Like when the original G3 iMac came out,

00:43:24   anybody who was a serious Mac user looked at it

00:43:26   and said it was basically a toy.

00:43:28   Like it was not a serious,

00:43:29   it was a underpowered thing for consumers.

00:43:32   But if you follow, if you chart the next 15 years,

00:43:36   it's hard to argue in the 2010s at some point

00:43:40   that most people shouldn't buy an iMac

00:43:43   if they want a desktop Mac or a Mac mini

00:43:46   because the Mac Pro became so expensive

00:43:49   and so high powered and really a niche product

00:43:52   for the very highest end.

00:43:55   And the iMac was so powerful that like,

00:43:57   I mean, I think it wasn't just Apple deciding

00:43:58   the Mac Pro would be expensive.

00:44:00   I think it's Apple also recognizing that the iMac

00:44:02   was no longer compromised in the way it used to be

00:44:04   and it was really the mainstream Mac most people should buy

00:44:07   if they wanted something on their desktop.

00:44:09   And then the Mac Mini I'll throw in there,

00:44:11   this idea that you could configure up an iMac

00:44:15   to put on like an i7 Intel processor and all of that.

00:44:18   And then they did an iMac Pro with a Xeon in it.

00:44:22   And then you could configure up the Mac Mini as well.

00:44:25   And you end up in this really weird state

00:44:29   where these products that are not high-end products,

00:44:34   but they're being pushed up at their high-end versions

00:44:39   to be powerful enough that you don't need a Mac Pro.

00:44:43   And when I think about Mac Studio,

00:44:46   and I mean, we've only known about it

00:44:48   for a couple of hours now,

00:44:49   but when I start to grapple with it,

00:44:51   I start to think about that attempt by Apple in the 2010s

00:44:55   to sort of use the high-end of Intel's processors

00:44:57   that were available and the thermal dynamics

00:45:00   of the systems that they had built

00:45:03   to offer that level of performance.

00:45:06   It's like not quite Mac Pro,

00:45:07   but like good enough for almost everybody

00:45:10   into these computers that were more mainstream,

00:45:14   but you could spec them up.

00:45:16   And the Mac Studio feels to me like it's Apple saying,

00:45:19   no, no, no, no, no, we're not gonna do that anymore.

00:45:22   Like those systems are designed to be what they are.

00:45:25   That 24-inch iMac is designed to be an M1.

00:45:29   And it's, if you want to be serious,

00:45:33   but not buy a Mac Pro, we have now made a product,

00:45:36   like we could, there are gonna be a lot of people saying,

00:45:37   "Is this the mythical mid range mini tower?

00:45:40   "Is this the X Mac?"

00:45:41   It's not expandable, but it is.

00:45:43   But it does fulfill in a lot of ways that middle ground

00:45:46   for people like us who don't, sorry, Steven,

00:45:49   don't need a Mac Pro.

00:45:51   I mean, they're fun, but don't like need the performance

00:45:53   that a Mac Pro brings,

00:45:56   but are also not gonna be satisfied professionally

00:46:00   or personally with an M1, just an M1 iMac or something.

00:46:04   And so I think it's a fascinating new Mac in a new spot.

00:46:09   And I think it's kind of pulling out some of this stuff

00:46:13   that Apple has tried to do at the high end

00:46:15   of their products that probably weren't meant for it,

00:46:18   but it was the only way you could really get there

00:46:20   if you didn't wanna buy a Mac Pro.

00:46:22   - Yeah, it is so interesting too

00:46:25   that Apple, they've left the, I mean, they said it,

00:46:28   but they also left the door open for the Mac Pro

00:46:31   with the pricing of the Mac Studio, right?

00:46:33   This in a way frees up the Mac Pro to be six grand.

00:46:38   - Well, my iMac Pro cost five grand

00:46:39   and it was the base model, right?

00:46:41   So when you think about the Mac Studio starting at 2000

00:46:45   and it doesn't have a display, but I'm just gonna say,

00:46:49   don't know why I know this,

00:46:51   if you were to buy a Mac Studio and a Studio Display,

00:46:54   - One was to buy. - You can do that

00:46:56   for a lot less than $5,000.

00:46:58   A lot less.

00:46:59   - Oh yeah.

00:47:00   And that's interesting too in the light

00:47:04   of the 27-inch iMac not being a thing right now.

00:47:08   The Intel one's gone, there's no Apple Silicon replacement.

00:47:12   A decent Mac Studio plus a studio display,

00:47:15   which I mean, Jason, could we just for a second

00:47:17   just enjoy they brought the name back?

00:47:19   A very historic name.

00:47:21   - Can you give some context, please?

00:47:23   - Yeah, absolutely.

00:47:24   is what is the like Apple Studio Display which one was that one? Yeah so it was it

00:47:28   was a name that lived on many displays from Apple but I think the ones that

00:47:33   most people would be familiar with are the the very early LCD it was kind of

00:47:40   like a name used at the very early LCDs and the very last CRTs and so it was a

00:47:46   very transitional period. They eventually went to Cinema Display which is what

00:47:50   they stayed with up until 2013 or so but I think studio display like bringing

00:47:57   that name back a lot of people have fond memories of those they would like the

00:48:01   clear I don't have one in here like the clear acrylic feet you don't have it I

00:48:05   have the studio display CR put it in our discord I have one right behind me right

00:48:08   now yeah I have a couple of them I think they're in the attic because they didn't

00:48:13   work and I have room in here but it's fun and it's fun that it comes with a

00:48:17   Mac that's named it. You know, a lot of people have sent me the picture, like

00:48:21   the press photo of the G4 Cube and the studio display it came with, and yeah,

00:48:26   like, this is kind of reliving that a little bit, but hopefully it's not as

00:48:31   cursed as other small desktops have been. The G4 Cube wasn't a great machine, got

00:48:36   canceled after a year. Man, I was so worried, Jason, I like said something to

00:48:42   Myke, when they were showing like the, you know, they do like the fly around thing

00:48:47   of what the computer's gonna look like, and I was like, if this is another round computer...

00:48:50   Yeah, they did that on purpose, I think.

00:48:52   I'm going to cry.

00:48:53   Yeah, because they start by showing the circle of the bottom of the machine.

00:48:57   And a circular power supply, like boy, that's gonna be fun when it breaks.

00:49:01   But you know, so I don't think they're repeating the mistakes of the Cube or the Mac Pro here,

00:49:06   even though it's kind of fun to point those things out.

00:49:09   This seems like it's been designed with the future in mind.

00:49:13   7.7 inches square 3.7 inches tall I would say when they showed the ad they did the ad

00:49:21   it was like dream machine ad which is really fun and they were showing as well when they

00:49:26   had the like it wasn't a house set I joked it was like a warehouse set that they had

00:49:30   of like all these different studios the machine looks physically bigger in situ than I expected

00:49:36   it would and I think that's I don't really know if like why I thought that but it's it's

00:49:42   It's not small, that's for sure, right?

00:49:46   It's I mean, 7.7 is the Mac Mini size, so it's the Mac Mini footprint.

00:49:51   It's just a lot taller because the Mac Mini is a 1.4 inch height thing and this is 3.7,

00:49:58   so it's more than twice the size of the Mac Mini.

00:50:02   If only I was somewhere where there were multiple Mac Minis that could be stacked on top of

00:50:06   each other.

00:50:07   They're over there, they're in the other room.

00:50:08   I can't see them from where I am.

00:50:09   Stack them up, two and a half.

00:50:10   Oh yeah, look at them over there.

00:50:12   So it's like those bottom three kind of.

00:50:14   - Okay, so I can get an accurate representation

00:50:17   of three Mac mini stacks on top of each other

00:50:18   in front of me.

00:50:19   It's quite a big machine, Jason.

00:50:20   Not gonna lie.

00:50:21   - Yeah, it's not a little thing.

00:50:23   And I think that goes to Steven's point about like,

00:50:26   this has been engineered for this kind of level

00:50:28   of performance, right?

00:50:28   And the fact that it's running the M1 Ultra,

00:50:33   like whatever heat is going on there,

00:50:34   and I know these don't run as hot

00:50:36   and they don't use as much power

00:50:37   'cause it's Apple Silicon, but still,

00:50:40   They've built this thing so that you can keep it cool.

00:50:44   And they have the little holes

00:50:45   and they show the little person going into the holes

00:50:48   in the video and all of that.

00:50:49   But also the, I think the implication at the end there

00:50:52   is that she wakes up just before she's gonna be killed

00:50:55   by the blades of the fan. - Yes, she's falling

00:50:56   into the fan, she's going to die and then she wakes up.

00:50:59   Because that's what wakes you up from a dream

00:51:00   when you're about to die.

00:51:01   - And is it nice that they're getting more use

00:51:02   out of that home set too?

00:51:04   - It's a different one.

00:51:05   That was a different one.

00:51:06   It was much bigger.

00:51:07   - I don't know, it felt to me like it was the same set

00:51:09   but they redressed it to make it more studio like.

00:51:13   - I also don't think a lot of it was real.

00:51:15   The machine's thermal stuff looks interesting, right?

00:51:19   So it looks like air gets brought into the bottom

00:51:21   because the bottom is raised

00:51:22   and it passes through the machine.

00:51:23   They have these two big fans going on.

00:51:26   They call it an innovative thermal system.

00:51:28   Then there were 200 tiny holes on the back

00:51:30   where the air is exhausted.

00:51:32   If we take out to the back, we've got a lot of IO.

00:51:34   One thing I was surprised about, there is no MagSafe here,

00:51:37   not even the MagSafe on the iMac.

00:51:39   It's just a standard power like adapter that plugs into the back.

00:51:42   With an internal power supply so you don't have a brick.

00:51:45   Yep.

00:51:46   Which again is not a big deal on the desktop I think as you all spoken about.

00:51:48   That's fine.

00:51:49   Yeah.

00:51:49   But it being internal is just a little bit nicer.

00:51:52   Yep.

00:51:52   You know.

00:51:53   And they can keep it cooler that way because it's actually part of the cooling

00:51:55   system.

00:51:56   The air flows over the power supply, which I'm sure actually helps a lot.

00:51:59   Uh, but the amount of IO on this machine is wild.

00:52:03   So we have four Thunderbolt 4 ports on the back.

00:52:06   This is one of the back.

00:52:07   10 gigabit ethernet, two USB-A, which I'm sure you're very happy about, Jason, we were

00:52:11   talking about that, HDMI and a Pro Audio jack, which is an audio jack with support for the

00:52:17   high impedance headphones. Then on the front, which I love that they put IO on the front,

00:52:23   if you have the M1 Max, you get two USB-C ports. If you have the M1 Ultra, you get two

00:52:29   Thunderbolt 4 ports and an SD card slot. I love that. You put IO on the front of the

00:52:35   machine. It shows that you are aware that people have temporary use, you know? Like,

00:52:41   "Oh, I just need to pull something off this. Oh, I just need to plug this in for a

00:52:44   minute so I can charge my iPhone or plug it in for a minute so I can pull

00:52:48   pictures from my iPhone." Having those I/O on the front, that really shows me, it's a

00:52:53   simple thing, but it shows me this idea of like, we actually thought about this

00:52:57   machine and how it will get used. I love that. The name "Studio" actually means

00:53:01   something. I should be clear because the way you phrased it was kind of unclear.

00:53:04   There's an SD card slot regardless of what chip is in it.

00:53:07   The SD card slot is there.

00:53:08   It's just a question of whether it's USB-C or Thunderbolt on the front.

00:53:11   Yeah, very good.

00:53:13   It can support tons of monitors, right?

00:53:15   Like if you've got all the Thunderbolt 4 ports and a HDMI.

00:53:18   I think they said like four displays and a TV it can do.

00:53:23   Should we talk about some of the performance statistics of this machine?

00:53:26   Again, I don't, I mean they all just kind of pour like out and roll over me and I'm

00:53:32   like okay it's huge like right I mean because it's everything we knew about

00:53:38   the m1 max and then there's also the m1 ultra so it is you expand your mind

00:53:44   about what a Mac can do because that's basically what this thing is it's gonna

00:53:48   smoke my 12 core Mac Pro massively and oh yeah and some of the specific

00:53:54   benchmarks they were comparing to like the 28 core Mac Pro and they did some of

00:53:59   with the with the MacBook Pros in the fall when they introduced the M1 Macs

00:54:03   for the first time but the M1 Ultra course basically doubles all of it and

00:54:08   yeah I mean if you have any Intel Mac this machine is going to be as fast or

00:54:15   faster than it in anything and again like there's headroom open for the

00:54:20   future but having this amount of performance even at the the base model

00:54:26   at two grand is impressive. Yeah so like just you know really they compared it to

00:54:33   they didn't show any comparisons to other M1 machines because I don't really

00:54:38   think that that was worth it but they did show comparisons to the iMac 27 inch

00:54:43   iMac which is basically the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro and it was just like you

00:54:48   know multiple times faster than the iMac in every way and it's like between 50

00:54:54   90% faster depending on the statistic that you're looking at to the Mac Pro on

00:54:58   both CPU and GPU. Like that performance stuff is just unbelievable with up to

00:55:05   128 gigs of memory on the Ultra and 8 terabytes SSD you can put in that thing.

00:55:10   On either one. Yeah we didn't really mention this in detail but basically the

00:55:16   M1 Ultra doubles everything about the Macs and so it's twice the memory

00:55:20   capacity everything's basically twice as fast it's very linear just like the m1 to

00:55:25   m1 Pro was as well but you know it does get it does get pricey like we said you

00:55:32   are gonna pay for that m1 max I mean if you if you go to the order page you can

00:55:36   play with it of course but going from an m1 Pro to an m1 ultra is at least a

00:55:44   thousand dollars depending on where you're going from 12 to 1400 basically

00:55:50   And then if you go all the way to the big one, it adds $2,400 to the price.

00:55:53   So the chips are pricey, but if that's what you need and that's what you've been

00:55:58   waiting for, then I mean, even like a pretty loaded,

00:56:02   I'm just setting all the buttons now, which is a fun game, a fully loaded M1

00:56:07   studio, uh, excuse me,

00:56:08   fully loaded Mac studio is going to be about eight grand US. So yeah,

00:56:13   that's Mac Pro money,

00:56:15   but it's also going to be shockingly faster than the Mac Pro

00:56:20   ever could be because of this this architecture change. The full on Mac

00:56:24   studio maxes out at eight grand by the way with the ultra? Yeah. That's as high

00:56:29   as you can get it to. Yeah. Is that what you said? Yeah. I thought you said the

00:56:32   max. No sorry I meant I meant ultra. Okay. These names are confusing. Yeah. We will remember

00:56:37   extreme because we have to say it that way every time but yes. It could be worse

00:56:41   they could have called this the Mac Max or M1 Pro Max as the chip name would

00:56:46   have been miserable but right and then you end up with like an m1 studio Mac

00:56:51   studio with the m1 max is the it's there's a lot of name stuff going on but

00:56:56   we'll get used to it like I got used to saying MacBook so yeah we'll figure it

00:56:59   out so we teased it for long enough you know Steven a second ago I think it was

00:57:04   a viewer Jason your voice is just mixing in my brain right now people that are

00:57:08   waiting for these types of machines I feel like I'm on a podcast of two people

00:57:13   who have been waiting for this kind of machine.

00:57:17   Jason, did you buy one of these?

00:57:21   - Oh yeah.

00:57:22   - Okay, do you wanna tell me about that?

00:57:24   - In the gap between the event ending

00:57:27   and us starting this podcast, I bought the base,

00:57:30   just like the iMac Pro, I bought the base model,

00:57:33   except I upgraded to two terabytes of internal storage

00:57:37   because I have one on my iMac Pro

00:57:39   and I decided it might be nice

00:57:41   to have a little bit more than that

00:57:42   because every now and then I feel like I need to clear some

00:57:46   stuff out in order to,

00:57:48   so I'm going to spend a little more on that,

00:57:49   but otherwise it's the base model.

00:57:50   - So yours is 10 core CPU, 24 core GPU.

00:57:54   That's cause you can, you can spec.

00:57:55   - My GPU needs are not enormous, right?

00:57:57   Like I'm never like, oh man,

00:57:59   I need to pay for some more GPU.

00:58:01   I really like the,

00:58:02   a lot of the stuff I do is really more processor bound

00:58:06   in terms of audio plugins and stuff like that.

00:58:08   So, and I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna,

00:58:11   I'm not gonna spend for an M1 Ultra.

00:58:15   Like I said, I feel like that is for people

00:58:16   who are way beyond my needs.

00:58:18   I don't need to go there.

00:58:20   But I did, like, because again, you can cancel the order

00:58:23   and if you don't get in immediately,

00:58:25   are they gonna push it back and say

00:58:27   that we're not gonna be able to ship it

00:58:29   for another two months or something like that.

00:58:30   So, but yeah, that's the plan.

00:58:33   I've got an order in, put down my Apple card and said,

00:58:36   "Give me that computer, I want it."

00:58:38   - 3% cash back, right?

00:58:40   Is that what you got, 3%?

00:58:41   - Well, yeah.

00:58:42   Yeah, yeah, it says on the order form, it says,

00:58:45   you have an Apple card on file with us,

00:58:48   and if you use it, you will save this amount of money.

00:58:51   It's like it's integrated into the checkout page.

00:58:54   - All right, we get it.

00:58:56   I will come back to your decision in a minute, Jason.

00:58:58   I wanna ask Steven too, if you ordered one of these?

00:59:01   - Yes.

00:59:02   - What did you order?

00:59:03   - I also ordered the M1 Max.

00:59:05   - Okay, neither of you pushed that big button.

00:59:07   - No, I did.

00:59:09   - Are you even for science?

00:59:10   - Not even for science.

00:59:11   I did 64 gigabytes of unified memory.

00:59:13   And I have, unlike Jason who has a home server,

00:59:18   I don't have that anymore on my,

00:59:19   I've been really used to having all my data on my machine.

00:59:21   I don't want to go back.

00:59:23   So I did push the big button for the eight terabyte SSD.

00:59:25   (laughing)

00:59:27   So my machine is five grand.

00:59:29   It's the cost of the base level.

00:59:31   - Hello.

00:59:32   - iMac Pro was, or, you know,

00:59:34   pretty close to the base Mac Pro.

00:59:36   - If you ever heard of those things, what are they called?

00:59:38   - Oh, external SSDs.

00:59:40   - I'm still gonna need those.

00:59:41   - Yes.

00:59:42   - I'm sitting here thinking that just not two minutes ago,

00:59:45   I had to try to justify to you

00:59:48   that I was gonna splurge on two terabytes of storage.

00:59:53   - I felt like there was no justification needed, Jason,

00:59:55   'cause I always go to two terabytes too.

00:59:56   - Yeah, years ago, I just gave up on the home server idea

01:00:00   and my dataset is like five terabytes or something.

01:00:05   So that is what it is.

01:00:08   But yeah, and I'm gonna use it with the Pro Display

01:00:11   I already have, so it will just take place of the Mac Pro.

01:00:14   And if anyone's interested in a really nice 2019 Mac Pro,

01:00:18   please send me an email.

01:00:19   - Life comes at you fast, life comes at you fast.

01:00:22   Like we didn't know this computer existed,

01:00:24   and I found myself buying it almost immediately

01:00:27   upon hearing about its existence.

01:00:29   It was, that's quite a whirlwind.

01:00:32   'Cause I had to, you know, we talk about it theoretically.

01:00:34   We're like, oh yeah, you know, what will you do

01:00:37   if they do this and that,

01:00:38   which we didn't even discuss this scenario really,

01:00:40   but like a Pro Mac Mini and an external display,

01:00:44   what would you do?

01:00:44   - Nobody knew about this until the weekend, right?

01:00:46   Like this is when,

01:00:47   but Hats off to 9to5Mac by the way,

01:00:49   they called both of these incredible reporting over there

01:00:52   that they managed to get this.

01:00:54   This wasn't in my mind. - And Germin had a lot

01:00:55   of these details, but didn't have the like,

01:00:57   had a lot of the details out there,

01:00:58   but didn't have the specific kind of,

01:01:00   this is what this product is.

01:01:02   - What this machine is not is the next Mac Mini.

01:01:04   It's not that.

01:01:05   Like it is much, much more than that.

01:01:08   - Is this his half-height Mac Pro?

01:01:09   I don't know, maybe it is, maybe it's not.

01:01:11   - I think this is Mark Gurman's smaller Mac Pro.

01:01:14   I think that's 100% what this is.

01:01:17   I mean, if you heard everything except the name, right?

01:01:22   You would go, "Oh, that's a small Mac Pro."

01:01:24   - Yeah, and it was interesting when they introduced it,

01:01:27   they mentioned modularity,

01:01:28   and that is different from upgradability.

01:01:31   This thing doesn't have any slots.

01:01:33   Again, maybe that's room for the Mac Pro in the future,

01:01:35   but it's not, it's got an SD card slot.

01:01:38   - It's got an SD card slot, but you know what I mean.

01:01:39   It has--

01:01:40   - It's a slot.

01:01:41   - It's exactly a card slot, Jason.

01:01:42   - Is it not a slot?

01:01:43   - Come on, put a card in it.

01:01:45   - It doesn't, I hate both of you.

01:01:46   - If you think it isn't a slot, well, you're wrong.

01:01:48   - It doesn't have an internal expansion, right?

01:01:50   You're not putting more drives inside of this.

01:01:52   It's a sealed box like everything else.

01:01:55   - That's why you gotta get the eight terabyte big boy.

01:01:57   - Someone's gonna do it.

01:01:58   - That's right.

01:01:59   Even since you guys know me feel bad,

01:02:00   I'm screen sharing to my Mac Pro,

01:02:02   like looking at my folder sizes.

01:02:04   like could I squeeze it down to four and not very comfortably so I would do look

01:02:09   live your best life that's right but my question is I just don't think you need

01:02:13   that amount of stuff inside the machine like accessible all times but look hey

01:02:17   live your best life my friend sorry you know do it this machine for me I'm very

01:02:25   intrigued by I have not ordered one I am I love my m1 Mac iMac very much but my

01:02:31   My plan was always, I spoke about this right, with both of you, to do, you know, like, "Oh,

01:02:37   I'll go to the next Pro Mac that's not a Mac Pro because I don't need a Mac Pro," right?

01:02:43   That's probably this machine might be the only option.

01:02:45   We'll jump ahead a little bit.

01:02:47   Like John Turner said at the end, "We have one more to go and it's the Mac Pro, but that's

01:02:51   for another day."

01:02:53   And we're going to talk in our next segment about the other product that got announced

01:03:00   here, right?

01:03:01   I think it's worth saying now in the context

01:03:04   of the Mac studio, that for, depending on your lifestyle

01:03:08   and what you wanna do, especially if you've already bought

01:03:12   a MacBook Pro with a Pro or Mac's chip,

01:03:15   there are gonna be a lot of people leading

01:03:19   the external monitor at my desk kind of life.

01:03:21   And the fact is, the performance is great over there.

01:03:24   It really is.

01:03:26   And you could make that argument of like,

01:03:28   well, why even get a Mac studio at the low end?

01:03:30   why not just get a MacBook Pro and then you can unhook it and take it with you.

01:03:35   And for some people that's gonna be a perfectly good argument to make.

01:03:39   But some of us are sort of like desktop users and want to have that powerful desktop.

01:03:45   And this one fits the bill for me.

01:03:47   And this was the thought that like I would get, you know, now I would live that to...

01:03:51   I'm living a two-computer life now and I would continue to do that and I would have the iMac

01:03:55   Pro and the MacBook Pro.

01:03:57   I feel like I'm in a bit of a loss now because I'm not really sure what's going on, but this

01:04:01   machine looks really really cool and really exciting.

01:04:04   I just haven't sat down and looked at it and really thought about it because I'm getting

01:04:09   on great with my M1 iMac.

01:04:10   We're having a fun time.

01:04:12   Maybe for me this wouldn't be a decision I would make until after experiencing the studio

01:04:18   display because I actually think that that's important for me to work out what my future

01:04:23   is going to be like.

01:04:24   How well does the studio display integrate into my setup?

01:04:27   Maybe I bought one of those, we'll talk about it in a bit.

01:04:30   But it is fascinating and I am really really intrigued.

01:04:35   We've got a few weeks to go right until these things start arriving.

01:04:38   Is it March 18th is when they start arriving?

01:04:41   Is that correct?

01:04:42   Yes, that's right.

01:04:43   A week from Friday.

01:04:44   So it's going to, I mean, maybe this is famous last words.

01:04:47   I don't imagine myself putting an order on one of these before like people start getting

01:04:52   them and reviewing them.

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01:06:59   Studio display time.

01:07:00   I can't believe it.

01:07:01   I can't believe it.

01:07:02   I didn't pick it in the draft specifically because I've been beaten down.

01:07:06   I always wanted it for like a year and it never ever happens and here it is it happened.

01:07:12   This is the thing I wanted the most, you know, like of especially when we thought we might be

01:07:17   going into because this is the, you know, I've spoken about it before the place I have the most

01:07:20   frustration in my life is with the LG display that I have which just doesn't work the way that I want

01:07:25   and Apple delivered here and I had so many like I was on a rollercoaster ride Jason because it was

01:07:31   It was like, oh, here's the monitor.

01:07:33   This is the monitor that I want.

01:07:34   Oh no, there's no adjustable stand.

01:07:36   Yeah, there's an adjustable stand,

01:07:37   but how much is it gonna cost?

01:07:39   Like it was like, I was having a real ride

01:07:41   and this is what I bought.

01:07:42   I bought one of these.

01:07:44   - Oh. - Yeah.

01:07:45   - It's $400 for the adjustable stand, by the way, $400.

01:07:48   - That's cheaper than I thought it was gonna be though.

01:07:50   - It's not the, it may actually be the Pro Stand.

01:07:53   I guess someone will take it apart and look,

01:07:54   but it's not the cost of the Pro Stand, which is nice.

01:07:58   So I bought the studio display standard glass

01:08:01   with the tilt and height adjustable stand.

01:08:04   So it wasn't cheap and it's gonna come sometime

01:08:07   in early April, I think for me.

01:08:09   - Well, I bought the piece of mount,

01:08:12   you'll be shocked to know.

01:08:13   - No way, Horace, shock horror.

01:08:16   - And it looks like unlike your iMac Pro,

01:08:20   this is a make your decision at time of purchase type thing.

01:08:25   - Oh really?

01:08:26   - I mean, looking at pictures,

01:08:27   You know, this is day one, so maybe we're not sure yet,

01:08:30   but it seems like you're not changing

01:08:33   between these in the future.

01:08:35   - Right, okay.

01:08:36   They're like pretty fixed.

01:08:38   - It looks like looking at the pictures

01:08:40   and looking at Apple's language,

01:08:41   you pick your stand type

01:08:43   and that is your stand type forevermore.

01:08:45   - Yeah, I mean like the images on Apple's,

01:08:47   like on the buying page,

01:08:48   you can scroll through the three of them

01:08:50   and you're right, that doesn't look like

01:08:52   there's somewhere to say, mount the VESA arm,

01:08:55   like the mount that you need,

01:08:56   it looks like that that is just on that model

01:08:59   that you're buying.

01:09:00   And so maybe like I'm not getting mine until early April

01:09:03   because they don't have as many with the stand on them.

01:09:07   But this is what I want.

01:09:09   Like, you know, for me, I didn't want to buy this monitor

01:09:12   and then put it on another riser again.

01:09:14   Like what I wanted was something

01:09:15   that I could have free adjustment over

01:09:17   'cause that's really important to me.

01:09:18   - Yeah, and the Pro Stand is with these features,

01:09:20   again, not quite sure if this is the same hardware,

01:09:23   the features are really nice.

01:09:24   I mean, you've sat at my desk this week.

01:09:27   You can move the Pro Display all around.

01:09:29   And it's nice and smooth.

01:09:32   People can.

01:09:33   I would just say, just a bit of behind the scenes,

01:09:35   I sat down at Steven's desk a little bit earlier on, Jason.

01:09:39   He was like, oh, why don't you come--

01:09:40   instead of sitting on this small desk

01:09:41   that we set up to record, why don't you come and sit

01:09:43   on my desk?

01:09:44   It'll be more comfortable.

01:09:45   So I brought my laptop over.

01:09:46   He said, don't touch the display.

01:09:48   That's what he said to me.

01:09:49   He said, you can't use the display.

01:09:50   You have to look at your laptop.

01:09:51   Well, you know, the cable's routed over to the Mac Pro.

01:09:54   - It would have been so hard.

01:09:55   It would have been so difficult to do.

01:09:56   - It would have been so hard.

01:09:57   - Jason, what did you get for the studio display?

01:09:59   - Base model, base amount, that was it.

01:10:04   - Base face.

01:10:05   - Base face.

01:10:06   - Base face.

01:10:07   - Ace of face.

01:10:08   - I gave it, yeah, shiny face, not the nano texture.

01:10:10   I don't need that.

01:10:11   - Not now.

01:10:12   - And base amount, because I mean, I anticipate,

01:10:15   I didn't look at the tech specs,

01:10:16   but I anticipated it'll be lighter than an iMac Pro.

01:10:19   - Oh yeah.

01:10:20   - And yeah, that's definitely what I want.

01:10:22   I did confirm by the way, this is literally the same panel

01:10:26   that Apple has used in the 5K iMac for all of these years.

01:10:30   That's what this is.

01:10:31   It is what everybody asked for,

01:10:33   which is a standalone display of the 5K monitor

01:10:37   that was in the iMac and iMac Pro.

01:10:40   So that's great.

01:10:43   - Let me give some speeds and feeds.

01:10:44   - With an A13 for fun.

01:10:46   - Yeah, 27 inches, 5K retina,

01:10:48   600 nits of brightness, P3 color, true tone.

01:10:50   all the things that you expect from a 27-inch iMac,

01:10:54   which, rest in peace, is in this display.

01:10:57   - And then it also has an A13 Bionic in it.

01:11:01   Now, when they were talking about this in the presentation,

01:11:04   they went on to talk about the 12 megapixel ultra-wide

01:11:06   or center stage and the mics and then the speakers.

01:11:09   It didn't make sense to me why the A13 Bionic

01:11:12   was needed for these things.

01:11:13   Do either of you have an idea on this?

01:11:15   - I do know this, actually.

01:11:17   So it's two things.

01:11:18   It's center stage and it's processing the audio

01:11:21   for spatial audio.

01:11:23   It's doing both of those tasks.

01:11:25   And if you're asking yourself,

01:11:27   why not just let the Mac do it?

01:11:31   These things are actually compatible with Intel Macs.

01:11:34   And so they're offloading all of that kind of stuff

01:11:37   to the A13 on the display instead.

01:11:39   - That's really smart.

01:11:40   And I guess as well, going into the future,

01:11:42   it gives them a bit of flexibility to do,

01:11:44   there might be some other fun stuff

01:11:46   that they might wanna do, you know?

01:11:47   I don't know what, but. - Could be.

01:11:48   - Because what this doesn't have is Face ID.

01:11:51   Disappointed?

01:11:52   - Yeah, I, yeah, it,

01:11:58   I don't know if I've seen the evidence of Apple's desire

01:12:02   to put Face ID on a Mac.

01:12:06   - No.

01:12:07   I mean, look, I'm disappointed,

01:12:08   but I wasn't expecting it, if that makes sense.

01:12:10   Like I would love it to have been there,

01:12:11   but I didn't think it was going to be.

01:12:14   - Yeah, I agree.

01:12:16   three USB-C ports on the monitor and then a Thunderbolt port for connecting to

01:12:21   a Mac. And this delivers 96 Watts of power.

01:12:24   So I would be able to plug in my 14 inch MacBook pro.

01:12:27   It would pull in everything and I guess pass over any IO through the Thunderbolt

01:12:31   cable. I expect how that's supposed to work and then also keep it powered.

01:12:34   This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm so happy.

01:12:39   It's kind of reminiscent of the old Thunderbolt display.

01:12:42   Now that had an ethernet on it too,

01:12:44   because you can adapt USB-C to basically anything.

01:12:46   But yeah, the one cable lifestyle,

01:12:49   it actually will fast charge your 14-inch MacBook Pro,

01:12:52   and it will keep up with the 16, as with that 96 watt,

01:12:56   that's the rating for the 16-inch MacBook Pro.

01:13:00   So yeah, if you're the type of user,

01:13:01   and a lot of people are, right?

01:13:02   A lot of people, especially back in the day,

01:13:05   you know, notebook plus display,

01:13:07   and that's one reason Apple's lack of a display

01:13:11   is still expensive, right?

01:13:12   This is not a $500 Dell that, you know,

01:13:14   Casey bought a couple of,

01:13:16   but it's not a Pro Display XDR price tag either.

01:13:20   - No, I mean, I, maybe it's just that Apple has, again,

01:13:24   sort of like tormented us so long,

01:13:27   but this is less than I thought

01:13:28   that they were going to charge us.

01:13:29   They were linking through all the features,

01:13:31   listing all those features, like,

01:13:33   oh, and it's got center stage and it charges.

01:13:36   It's got all these ports and all that.

01:13:37   And I'm like, oh man, this is going to be a $2,000 display.

01:13:40   Isn't it?

01:13:41   And it's not, I mean, it's not cheap,

01:13:44   but none of us expected an Apple standalone display

01:13:49   to be price competitive with displays

01:13:52   from other manufacturers.

01:13:53   None of us really believe that, right?

01:13:55   That's not the game Apple plays.

01:13:56   It's gonna be more expensive,

01:13:57   but it's gonna be the Apple one.

01:13:59   And we've learned, if anything,

01:14:01   Apple has taught us in the last five years

01:14:04   or longer, 10 years, is what's the world like

01:14:08   when you don't get the Apple display

01:14:10   or you can't get the Apple display.

01:14:12   And what's that worth to you, buddy?

01:14:15   This is the answer, but it's less than I feared it would be.

01:14:19   And I put my money down for it, so there you go.

01:14:23   - This isn't a problem by any stretch,

01:14:25   but I was gonna text to text page,

01:14:26   and the Thunderbolt port is Thunderbolt 3,

01:14:28   which is funny, 'cause they seem to put 4

01:14:31   on everything now, right?

01:14:32   - Yeah, well, there's not really a difference

01:14:34   in bandwidth between 3 and 4, I don't think.

01:14:36   - Okay, so what's the difference then?

01:14:38   Thunderbolt 4, I believe, we talked about this

01:14:42   on Connected at some point, trying to remember the details,

01:14:44   but it is the one that sort of collapses USB

01:14:46   and Thunderbolt into one spec.

01:14:49   - Okay.

01:14:50   - But my guess is, even if there is a difference,

01:14:52   and it may be, the chat room may be correcting me,

01:14:55   using Thunderbolt 3 does what Jason said,

01:14:57   it gets you backwards compatibility

01:14:59   with Thunderbolt 3 Intel Macs.

01:15:01   So you can run this with a 2016 MacBook Pro,

01:15:04   or an iMac from 2017, the iMac Pro,

01:15:07   any Mac with Thunderbolt 3,

01:15:09   and my guess is that that was important to them,

01:15:13   that they wanted to be able to support

01:15:15   a pretty wide range of machine,

01:15:17   and so Thunderbolt 3 gives them that,

01:15:19   Thunderbolt 4 doesn't really give them

01:15:21   anything they need past that,

01:15:23   so I don't view that as a spec of like,

01:15:27   oh, that's weird, they did something old.

01:15:29   I think it gives them a nice range of benefits

01:15:32   for people who are holding onto those Intel machines

01:15:36   for some reason.

01:15:37   and want an external display.

01:15:39   Why not serve that group too?

01:15:41   - Yeah, that makes sense.

01:15:42   And I'm just, I'm so happy

01:15:45   that they're back into this business.

01:15:46   Like, I'm just really happy.

01:15:47   You know, and I'm not one of these people who are like,

01:15:51   "Oh, I can't look at this OG," you know,

01:15:53   like I'm not like that.

01:15:54   Like, it's not a designer thing for me.

01:15:56   It purely has been like, my functionality experience

01:16:00   of external displays and docs and stuff

01:16:02   has just been really poor.

01:16:03   And I just, I naturally expect that I will be able

01:16:08   to get a much better experience out of an Apple made monitor

01:16:13   because this is what it's for.

01:16:14   And breaking news, we have some real time follow up

01:16:18   from the king of cables himself, Federico Vittucci.

01:16:21   Thunderbolt 4 provides 100 watt charging on a single cable

01:16:24   plus 8K single monitor.

01:16:26   That's one of the things that it does that three doesn't.

01:16:28   - So it does have some extended ability

01:16:31   but nothing they need for this.

01:16:32   - Yes, because not in the only diva of those features,

01:16:35   but I guess that's why it,

01:16:38   does the 16 do fast charging at all?

01:16:41   - I think if you get that giant, giant charger.

01:16:44   - So that's probably why they said it fast charges the 14.

01:16:46   - Right. - 'Cause that's not enough

01:16:47   power to the 16. - 'Cause it's essentially

01:16:49   providing the power that the smaller brick provides,

01:16:52   not the one that the giant brick,

01:16:54   that's just in the 16 inch.

01:16:56   - Yeah.

01:16:57   - But otherwise, oh, by the way,

01:16:58   you can plug an iPad into it too.

01:17:01   - Woo!

01:17:02   - Oh wow, okay.

01:17:04   - That is a useful thing. - 'Cause that's a useful thing.

01:17:05   - Yeah. (laughs)

01:17:07   - You can plug an iPad into it for the poor experience

01:17:10   that you will be wanting to accept.

01:17:13   - From that.

01:17:14   Well, maybe someday they will do a software update

01:17:17   that enables a better experience

01:17:19   now that they have an external display.

01:17:21   But for now, you can plug it in for the bad experience.

01:17:24   You can get that if you want.

01:17:26   - I think it's really interesting

01:17:28   the design language they chose for this,

01:17:30   because it's basically the 24-inch iMac without the chin,

01:17:35   but from the front, it really looks like a Pro Display.

01:17:37   Like they've kind of walked the line

01:17:39   between looking related to both of those products.

01:17:43   And, you know, it fits in line

01:17:44   with Apple's modern design language of flat sides,

01:17:48   you know, tight corners.

01:17:49   I think it looks really nice.

01:17:51   Kind of wish it was available in more colors,

01:17:54   but that is what it is, I guess.

01:17:56   But from the front, if you didn't know,

01:17:59   you may think it's a Pro Display

01:18:01   'cause it's got those thin black bezels

01:18:03   and the squared off look.

01:18:04   - I love it.

01:18:06   I love that they've got the,

01:18:07   and it's got those two looks, right?

01:18:09   Depending on the stand that you go for.

01:18:11   You can either make it look like an iMac

01:18:12   or make it look like a Pro Display,

01:18:14   which is kind of funny really.

01:18:15   - And the truth is it's, you know,

01:18:18   we're so focused today, I mean, maybe Myke isn't,

01:18:20   but on the fact that it's coming out with a Mac Studio.

01:18:23   So you've got the studio display on the Mac Studio

01:18:25   and everybody's talking about it.

01:18:26   but like, not only is this for older Intel Macs,

01:18:30   it's for MacBook Air and for the M1 Mac Mini.

01:18:35   - Yep.

01:18:36   - And like, I mean, it is for everything.

01:18:39   - It's everything.

01:18:40   Yeah, like I'm excited about the Mac Studio,

01:18:43   but I need to think more about it.

01:18:44   Like I want this computer,

01:18:46   but I don't know if it's the right one for me.

01:18:48   Like I feel like this is something

01:18:50   I really need to get my head around.

01:18:51   But as I said, like the studio display is like,

01:18:53   this is exactly for me.

01:18:55   Like this is what I want.

01:18:56   I put everything in it that I wanted.

01:18:58   - In your studio.

01:19:00   - In Mega Studio, it's gonna be the Apple Studio.

01:19:02   Is it called the, it's called the Apple Studio Display,

01:19:04   right, that's the full name?

01:19:05   - Right.

01:19:06   - Apple Studio Display in Mega Studio, I'm very excited.

01:19:09   Do you, either of you have any more thoughts

01:19:11   on the studio display?

01:19:11   'Cause I wanna come back to addressing

01:19:13   what Jon Turner said at the end.

01:19:15   - I think my closing statement on the display is just like,

01:19:18   it's about time.

01:19:20   We've talked about this for so long,

01:19:22   and I kinda feel today the same sense of relief I felt

01:19:25   they replaced the butterfly keyboard it's like we had this ongoing complaint

01:19:30   legitimate complaint about Apple's product strategy with the Mac and now

01:19:36   like this was the last low-hanging fruit in my mind like I can't really think

01:19:41   sitting here today like what's the the big thing that's wrong with with the

01:19:48   lineup and I really can't put my finger at anything yeah because we're still in

01:19:52   this transition there's still more to come we're gonna go with that in a

01:19:54   second but this was such a gaping hole for so long you know it seems like

01:20:00   they've really got this right the prices is like we said it's expensive but it's

01:20:05   what you were gonna get from Apple maybe let maybe even cheaper what we were

01:20:08   thinking so I'm really impressed I don't have space for this I don't have need

01:20:12   for this but I know there are tons of people who do and I think people are

01:20:16   really gonna be excited to to ditch that you know that LG 5k they bought in 2017

01:20:22   with something like this. Yeah, and for me, I, you know, I just

01:20:28   wanted to mention the stands again cuz I care about this stuff and I love that

01:20:33   there's a VESA mount, but we knew we were gonna have that, but it's also no extra

01:20:36   and that they've got the standard stand that looks like a limac foot for the

01:20:41   standard price and then they've got this, you know, $400 tilt stand and I'm sure

01:20:49   they're gonna get grief because they always are now after that Pro Display XDR stand was

01:20:55   $1,000 for selling a $400 stand and I wish that it was cheaper obviously but at the same

01:21:02   time I'm glad that they didn't make it standard and have the whole price of the thing be higher.

01:21:07   I'm glad that it's an option and you know really because we talked about this with the

01:21:14   24-inch iMac I'm just really glad that they made it so that people who want more adjustability

01:21:19   have access to it without having to do something like

01:21:22   a VESA mount on a VESA stand that is adjustable.

01:21:26   'Cause the fact is, for a lot of people,

01:21:28   depending on their ergonomics,

01:21:29   depending on how tall they are,

01:21:31   or where their desk is or whatever,

01:21:33   the standard fixed height of like an iMac

01:21:38   isn't a good height,

01:21:39   or it isn't a good height in certain circumstances.

01:21:41   And so I'm glad that they built this option

01:21:46   to have that sort of tilt adjustment stand for people,

01:21:50   even though it is pricey, I'm glad it exists

01:21:54   'cause they could have just not done it.

01:21:56   And even though we could say, well, yeah,

01:21:58   but it should just be standard at that price.

01:22:00   I'm like, well, yeah, okay, maybe,

01:22:02   but they chose not to do it that way.

01:22:04   And I can understand it's probably engineered,

01:22:07   maybe not like the XDR stand,

01:22:08   but it's probably engineered really well.

01:22:11   And one of those things where they spared no expense on it.

01:22:14   And so that's why it costs what it does,

01:22:16   but I'm just so happy that it exists

01:22:18   'cause I know there are a lot of people out there

01:22:19   who complain about, you get this beautiful iMac or display

01:22:24   and then you have to put it on a dictionary or something

01:22:27   and that's not great.

01:22:28   - I think the biggest difference for me,

01:22:30   like yeah, I agree, there's always gonna be people like,

01:22:32   oh, this stands this now.

01:22:34   But the difference being with this monitor over the XDR,

01:22:39   with the XDR, you had to choose one of them,

01:22:43   either the stand or the VESA and it was always more money.

01:22:46   Right, like the $1,000 stand was the only stand

01:22:50   you could put the monitor on, right?

01:22:52   So it's like you're kind of out of luck.

01:22:53   But with this one, well you get the regular stand

01:22:55   and then if you wanna go extra, go extra, that's up to you.

01:22:58   But with the Pro Display XDR,

01:22:59   it's like well you could just balance it I guess, right?

01:23:01   Like what was John Syracuse saying about like

01:23:04   getting a child to hold it for you?

01:23:06   I think I remember that, WBC.

01:23:08   So yeah, I'm really excited about this.

01:23:10   This was the thing that's got me the mug pump right now

01:23:13   because it's really solving something.

01:23:15   Jason and I have been asking the upgradeers

01:23:18   some Ask Upgrade questions, and they've got lots of them,

01:23:21   so should we get to a few?

01:23:22   Yeah, let's do it.

01:23:24   Thank you.

01:23:26   And this first one from Peter addresses what I wanted to talk about

01:23:30   with what Jon Turner mentioned at the end.

01:23:32   Peter says, "Do you think the iMac Pro name will ever be used again?"

01:23:36   [sighs]

01:23:37   So, as a recap, real quick,

01:23:41   like John Turner said, one more to go Mac Pro

01:23:44   that's for another day.

01:23:45   - Yeah.

01:23:46   So Steven just posted something on 512 pixels

01:23:49   where he's like, ah, it'll ride again.

01:23:54   And my feeling is the exact opposite,

01:23:56   which is I think there will be a 27 inch iMac at some point.

01:24:00   But I think the days of the iMac being pushed up

01:24:03   with high spec stuff for more prosumer kind of users

01:24:07   are probably over for a while.

01:24:10   if you never say never,

01:24:11   but I feel like what the Mac studio is saying

01:24:14   and what the studio display is saying is Apple's gonna,

01:24:18   Apple has, like we said earlier,

01:24:20   found this place where the consumer Macs are over here

01:24:23   and the Mac Pro is over here.

01:24:24   And instead of us complaining that the Mac Pro

01:24:26   is too high-end and the consumer Macs are, you know,

01:24:30   over kind of like being pushed out of what they're for

01:24:33   in order to fulfill the desires of people

01:24:35   who want a little bit more,

01:24:37   that the Mac studio exists now.

01:24:38   So that's my gut feeling is that there will not ever

01:24:42   be an iMac Pro again, but that there,

01:24:45   I think there will be a 27 inch iMac at some point,

01:24:48   probably like using an M2,

01:24:50   but it's just gonna be a bigger version of the 24.

01:24:53   It's not gonna be pushed where it's got Pro chips in it

01:24:56   or Macs chips in it or ultra chips in it.

01:24:59   It's gonna be just a bigger of the base iMac

01:25:03   and it can go back to being that.

01:25:06   And I do, you know, there'll be rumors.

01:25:10   I will just say, I don't believe that we have,

01:25:13   we've seen the last of the bigger iMac.

01:25:15   I know that it's end of life and it's over for now,

01:25:18   but I, you know, you know how at the end of a concert,

01:25:22   everybody cheers and then the people come back on stage

01:25:25   for the encore and like everybody knows

01:25:27   that's gonna happen.

01:25:28   I kind of feel like that's what's happening

01:25:29   with the 27 inch iMac is they're probably

01:25:32   already working on it, but next year they're gonna be like,

01:25:34   you know, we heard that people loved it

01:25:36   and so we decided to bring it back.

01:25:38   It's like, you already decided, I bet, I bet.

01:25:41   But I don't think iMac Pro,

01:25:42   I don't think deforming the iMac product line

01:25:47   in order to stick a pro model in it.

01:25:50   I think the Mac studio's existence

01:25:52   means they won't ever do that again.

01:25:54   - So let me offer my counterpoint.

01:25:56   - Please do.

01:25:59   - The outgoing Intel 27 inch iMacs,

01:26:03   The starting prices range from $1,800 to $2,300,

01:26:07   depending on the CPU you got.

01:26:09   The cheapest MacStudio Studio Display combination

01:26:14   is $3,600 before you buy $200 with the keyboards and mice.

01:26:19   Of course, you could put a Mac Mini next to a Studio Display

01:26:24   but the Mac Mini isn't running in the same circles

01:26:26   as the old high-end iMac and this new MacStudio machine,

01:26:30   right, 'cause it's just the M1.

01:26:31   Now, the Intel Mac Mini is still for sale,

01:26:33   maybe there is an M1 Pro Mac Mini coming

01:26:36   at some point in the future, we did not see that today.

01:26:38   But I think that as it stands right now,

01:26:42   Apple may want people to go buy a Mac Studio

01:26:45   and a Studio Display to replace an old 27-inch iMac,

01:26:49   but you're spending possibly a good bit more to do that.

01:26:54   - Yeah. - And I think that's,

01:26:56   we were talking earlier a second ago

01:26:59   about holes in the lineup,

01:27:00   Maybe this is one beginning to form, but it's just, it's, it's feels a little bit strange

01:27:07   not to have that, that machine around.

01:27:11   And the reason I think the iMac Pro name in particular could come back, which I didn't

01:27:15   think months ago and I've changed my mind on it, and I feel even more so about it today,

01:27:20   is let the iMac be the consumer desktop, right?

01:27:23   It comes in colors, that's its history, right?

01:27:25   I mean, there's an orange one like three feet away from mic right now.

01:27:28   it's that fun consumer machine. An iMac Pro could come in at a higher

01:27:34   price and kind of fill the space above it and like making the iMac brand almost

01:27:39   more pure, not stretching it. And so I think we will see something. I think the

01:27:46   iMac Pro name will come back. It's just a matter of when. And that's why I

01:27:52   found Ternus's line so interesting like yeah he answered the question what will

01:27:59   happen to the Mac Pro because Myke when we were sitting on my couch watching and

01:28:01   I asked you I was like well what does this mean for the Mac Pro Ternus

01:28:04   answered that well the Mac Pro is coming you know that has like slogan of the

01:28:09   decade for Mac users like the new Mac Pro is coming yeah but but even that

01:28:15   doesn't really fill the hole that the big iMac leaves behind and so I think

01:28:21   I think we'll see something, and I think them saying,

01:28:24   you know, that's the last one to make the transition,

01:28:27   that doesn't close the door on a big iMac.

01:28:28   I think it may be a bit more interesting

01:28:32   than that in the future.

01:28:34   - Yeah, I see what you're saying.

01:28:35   I guess you think,

01:28:37   you are thinking more about Apple's benevolence than I am.

01:28:42   I think-- - I'm in a good mood, man.

01:28:44   We got a cube-shaped computer.

01:28:46   - I know, I sort of, I mean, sort of.

01:28:48   - Smoosh cube.

01:28:48   - I think it's more likely that what Apple's gonna say is,

01:28:53   look, Apple Silicon is so powerful

01:28:55   that for most people's uses,

01:28:56   all you really need is to get an iMac or a Mac mini

01:29:00   or a laptop and MacBook Air even, and you'll be fine.

01:29:04   And if you want that screen,

01:29:06   you can get the external display or you can buy,

01:29:09   maybe down the road, a 27 inch iMac,

01:29:12   but it's just gonna be an M2 or something like that,

01:29:14   which is just an M2, like it's pretty good.

01:29:16   And then somebody will say,

01:29:18   this is the reverse of the whole X Mac argument,

01:29:21   which is somebody will say, but what if I want more?

01:29:25   And Apple will say, that's what you buy,

01:29:27   Mac studio, external monitor.

01:29:31   If you want more, that's it.

01:29:33   And yes, there's a little bit of a hole there,

01:29:36   but I think that is Apple saying,

01:29:38   we're not gonna make,

01:29:42   we're not gonna repurpose our consumer products

01:29:44   for a high-end model in order to fulfill that,

01:29:47   we built a product for you.

01:29:48   And that's, and it costs what it costs.

01:29:51   And the good news is that when you come,

01:29:53   we come out with a new one in two years,

01:29:54   you won't have to replace your monitor.

01:29:56   - Yeah, yeah, I guess we'll find out, right?

01:29:57   I mean, Germin has said he expects another wave of max

01:30:01   in the May, June timeframe.

01:30:03   So either before or at WWDC.

01:30:05   - Mark Germin has been so all over the place

01:30:08   with the big one.

01:30:09   He doesn't know about it.

01:30:10   I mean, we've been talking about this for weeks.

01:30:12   he seems to have been a little bit trying to read tea leaves on that one.

01:30:17   That adds to me my feeling. So I think the iMac pro is gone.

01:30:22   I think, you know, we spoke about this, so I got to so many times,

01:30:26   the iMac pro is from an alternate timeline and now that space has been occupied

01:30:31   by the Mac studio. It is the professional computer for most people, right?

01:30:36   The high end computer for most people.

01:30:38   Yeah, but that leaves people out who just want a big iMac, who don't care that it had

01:30:44   a Xeon in it or whatever.

01:30:45   So I think that's, I think it doesn't leave them out because I do think that there will

01:30:49   be a 27-inch iMac at some point, but it's not gonna be a pro-level thing.

01:30:52   It's gonna be like an M2, and that'll be what it is, and you'll get 24 or 27.

01:30:57   I could even see that there isn't gonna be another big iMac.

01:31:00   It's just like they have, on computer it's called iMac.

01:31:02   Yeah.

01:31:03   It's wild, right?

01:31:04   Can you imagine going back like two years and be like,

01:31:07   "There's gonna be intense debate

01:31:09   "about the future of the iMac."

01:31:10   It's like, "But that's the bread and butter.

01:31:12   "Like that's the flagship."

01:31:15   And here we are.

01:31:17   But Apple has these opportunities in these transitions

01:31:21   to redefine what these machines are.

01:31:24   And that's what we've seen today.

01:31:25   We've seen them take a form factor they flirted with

01:31:28   over the last 20 years with the Cube and the trashcan

01:31:31   and say, "Hey, we're gonna make something new

01:31:33   that sits on your desk, that's really powerful and quiet.

01:31:36   And maybe they're doing that in these other areas as well.

01:31:39   It's fun to be able to debate it and to talk about it

01:31:44   because when's the last time there was any debate

01:31:47   about what the iMac was or should be?

01:31:49   - Oh yeah.

01:31:50   No, this goes back, I mean, I said this earlier,

01:31:52   but this goes back to the iMac getting redefined

01:31:55   as the computer that was not just for consumers,

01:31:58   but was for people at the fairly high end,

01:32:01   but not so high end that they bought a Mac Pro.

01:32:04   And that happened gradually, but it did happen.

01:32:07   And I feel like this is maybe Apple going back a little bit

01:32:11   and redefining it again and saying,

01:32:13   "No, we're not gonna do that this time with the iMac.

01:32:16   We're not going to make it have this range

01:32:19   like we did with Intel processors,

01:32:21   where we could get you something that was fairly low end

01:32:23   and we can get you something that's pretty high end

01:32:25   and they're all jammed in the same enclosure

01:32:27   with the same cooling system."

01:32:28   And they're like, "No, we're not gonna do that."

01:32:30   And so in terms of that, you mentioned that event

01:32:33   that may be coming up that Mark Gurman talked about,

01:32:36   it does feel like this was the wrap on the M1, right?

01:32:41   This is the last new M1 chip.

01:32:44   - Yeah. - That's absolutely the case.

01:32:47   So, you know, that MacBook Air rumor is out there

01:32:51   and there was the MacBook Pro rumor.

01:32:52   There's a bunch of M2 laptop rumors out there.

01:32:55   And I don't know whether that'll be in May or June

01:32:58   or whether it'll be later in the summer

01:32:59   in the fall or whatever, but like, it feels to me

01:33:02   like the next Mac announcement is going to be,

01:33:04   now here's the M2.

01:33:05   - Yeah.

01:33:08   You know, and I just, and sitting here thinking about it,

01:33:10   you know, maybe we've all sliced the bread too thinly.

01:33:12   Is that a phrase?

01:33:14   - I have absolutely no idea what that means.

01:33:16   - Maybe we've parsed his comment too closely.

01:33:19   You know, maybe Apple does view the big and small iMac

01:33:22   as kind of the same machine, same family machine.

01:33:25   So it's like, yeah, the Mac Pro's left.

01:33:27   Where I did the iMac, it's like, don't pay attention.

01:33:29   - Well, and officially the 27-inch iMac

01:33:31   is end of life today, right?

01:33:32   So like, if Apple doesn't introduce,

01:33:37   doesn't talk about future products,

01:33:40   but they're gonna stop making an Intel iMac

01:33:42   that really they shouldn't be selling anymore, right?

01:33:44   Well, what happens?

01:33:47   Exactly what we just saw,

01:33:48   which is even if they were making a larger iMac

01:33:51   for next year, they wouldn't necessarily say that now.

01:33:56   They just say, "The old one is gone."

01:33:59   And that's what they didn't say,

01:34:00   we're never gonna do the bigger one.

01:34:01   They just said, it's gone.

01:34:02   That one is gone.

01:34:04   - I think it's even weird that they got rid of the old one.

01:34:06   Like to me, them just end up lifing the old,

01:34:09   the existing one today,

01:34:11   that's more evidence to me

01:34:12   that there isn't a bigger one on the horizon.

01:34:14   - Yeah, I think so. - Why?

01:34:16   - So reading the tea leaves again

01:34:18   about what Gurman's reports have been,

01:34:20   it sounds to me like maybe there has been a project,

01:34:22   but it has kind of been on and off or it's been delayed.

01:34:25   And he had that one report where it was like,

01:34:27   haven't started working on the bigger iMac. So I wonder if maybe the truth is that they looked at

01:34:34   the Mac Studio and they looked at the external display and said this will get us through for a

01:34:39   while and then we'll push that other larger iMac down the road and do it next year. We'll do,

01:34:45   or you know, probably they said it last year, so they like, but in 23 we'll get to it. But it'll

01:34:51   be okay in the meantime because we've got the 24-inch iMac and we've got this display that's

01:34:57   27 inches and that'll be good enough and that's that's going to be my guess at least right now

01:35:01   is that that's where they are is that i the larger iMac is like something that they felt

01:35:05   they didn't have to do and that they probably had a bunch of other stuff in in the pipeline and

01:35:10   they're like we can wait on this one and that might explain Gurman's kind of haziness about

01:35:15   it it's like yes but um maybe that's the truth of it is that it was hovering out there but

01:35:21   it they just decided uh they had other stuff to do before they got to it over the weekend

01:35:26   Ming-Chi Kuo tweeted, he's on Twitter now, which is great,

01:35:30   Ming-Chi Kuo tweeted, "2023 for Mac Pro and iMac Pro."

01:35:34   And I'm still not sure about the iMac Pro,

01:35:36   but at the time I was like, "2023, no way."

01:35:39   Now I understand why, 'cause they're the studio, right?

01:35:42   Like, now I was like, "How can they leave it so long?"

01:35:44   - By its time.

01:35:45   Yeah. - That makes a bit more sense.

01:35:47   Yeah. - And Apple didn't foresee

01:35:49   a pandemic when they, you know,

01:35:51   opened up the calendar app on Tim's iPad

01:35:53   to like map out the Apple Silicon transition.

01:35:56   Rise like 23 to your point, Myke, yes, they were doing all this,

01:35:59   but there's also all those other things going on too.

01:36:01   And if it's, you know, another year for the Mac Pro,

01:36:05   it'll kind of linger out there like the trash can did.

01:36:08   And those of us who want something in that class can buy and enjoy Mac studios.

01:36:14   I'll be in the pandemic when they started.

01:36:17   I think we were. But even like they didn't know how long it's going to last.

01:36:20   I know that they didn't know the supply chain.

01:36:22   I just have to have the issues back in my brain.

01:36:24   and you'd be like, oh my god, it's been that long.

01:36:26   All right, there's more questions.

01:36:27   Adam says, I was surprised by how cheap

01:36:29   the new studio display is.

01:36:31   Then I realized it's 500 nits compared to 1600

01:36:34   of my 14 inch MacBook Pro or the Pro Display XDR.

01:36:37   So it doesn't appear to be a HDR monitor.

01:36:40   Does that disappoint any of you?

01:36:42   - No.

01:36:44   - I'm okay with it because it's the screen

01:36:46   that I've had on my desk for seven years essentially,

01:36:50   that 5K iMac panel, and it's a good display.

01:36:52   And while I can accept that new,

01:36:57   better display tech is coming,

01:36:59   I'm okay with it.

01:37:03   Like again, if I had to wait another year

01:37:05   in order to get an HDR version,

01:37:08   and what would that cost?

01:37:09   Like I'm kind of okay with it as it is.

01:37:12   - Yeah, I agree.

01:37:13   And like they've used that panel for a long time.

01:37:15   It looks really good.

01:37:16   It still does. - It does.

01:37:18   - That panel, I remember when the first 5K iMacs came out,

01:37:21   And of course they've improved it since then.

01:37:23   But even then thinking like this is all anyone needs.

01:37:26   Like as someone who has a Pro Display XDR

01:37:29   who doesn't use the fancy movie making,

01:37:32   like I'm not making Star Wars in my pod cabin, right?

01:37:34   Like it's, I'm using it as a computer display.

01:37:37   There's so many of the features of the Pro Display

01:37:41   that I feel are untapped by my usage.

01:37:45   Whereas this thing people can get

01:37:46   and they'll use every ounce of it and it's gonna be great.

01:37:49   and it's got speakers and stuff, which is fantastic.

01:37:52   - Oh yeah, your expensive one doesn't have speakers,

01:37:54   does it?

01:37:55   - No, I have clear sound sticks on either side of it.

01:37:58   My iMac Pro is at three dots for brightness.

01:38:01   - Yeah.

01:38:02   - So I'm not anywhere close to using the brightness

01:38:04   of this display anyway.

01:38:06   - Mm-hmm.

01:38:07   - I don't know if we answered this earlier,

01:38:08   but Nicholas asked,

01:38:10   how much brand did you each get in your Mac studio?

01:38:12   - I did 64 gigs.

01:38:16   I did 32 which is what I've got in the in the iMac Pro. I think it's enough and I decided not to

01:38:22   spend more money on that. Yeah and Zach asked me what was the best part about watching the event

01:38:28   with Steven. I love watching events for friends especially Steven because you get to exclaim

01:38:34   things very loudly and somebody there can hear you. Yeah somebody cares right and can get involved

01:38:39   with you you know when something happens. Did he just say that? No I can't believe you know that's

01:38:42   That's what I like. Watching them on your own is sad.

01:38:44   So usually, over the last three years with these things,

01:38:47   I've watched it, done our shows, whatever, and then usually the night of or the next night,

01:38:52   I'll rewatch it just to take more notes, and I'll make Mary sit down and watch it

01:38:57   because I just want to bounce ideas off of somebody, and the dog doesn't care about displays.

01:39:03   You could bounce ideas off of either, though. You could.

01:39:06   Yeah. I mean, she would just stare at me and want a treat.

01:39:09   It bounces back completely.

01:39:10   - It does, blank look on her face.

01:39:12   Eva Korndog is our dog.

01:39:14   We should clarify, Eva's not a person, Eva's a dog.

01:39:17   So yeah, it is fun to watch these.

01:39:20   Like Myke said, we haven't done it together since 2017.

01:39:24   And so today was a lot of fun.

01:39:26   And even though an Apple event

01:39:28   in the middle of our trip together,

01:39:30   has blown a big hole of work right in the center of it.

01:39:33   - Yeah, we lost the entire day.

01:39:35   - I'm glad that it worked out this way.

01:39:37   - Me too. - Me too.

01:39:39   Alright, I think that wraps it up for this week's episode of Upgrade.

01:39:42   If you would like to send in a question for us to answer in a future episode,

01:39:46   just send in a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or use question mark

01:39:49   #AskUpgrade in the Relay FM members Discord, which you can get access to.

01:39:53   If you sign up for Upgrade Plus, go to getupgradeplus.com and you'll get longer,

01:39:57   ad-free versions of every single episode of Upgrade.

01:40:00   I would like to thank our sponsors for this week.

01:40:03   Member 4 Capital One, Smile and Electric.

01:40:05   And thank you to our guests, Steven Hackett.

01:40:08   You can find Steve and he is @ismh on Twitter,

01:40:11   writes at fivetopixels.net,

01:40:12   and hosts many wonderful shows here on Relay FM.

01:40:15   You can go check them out for yourself.

01:40:17   Jason is over at sixcolors.com and he is @jsnl, J-S-N-E-L-L.

01:40:22   Stay tuned to Six Colors, I'm sure,

01:40:24   for lots more analysis and thoughts

01:40:26   about today's announcements.

01:40:28   I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:40:31   And we'll be back next week.

01:40:33   - No, you won't be. - Although I think

01:40:34   I'm gonna be away, right?

01:40:35   Yeah, I'm taking the week off.

01:40:37   Jason's gonna have a guest Jason's gonna be like I'm traveling home on that day

01:40:42   So so you can still have an episode of upgrade on Monday

01:40:45   Jason's gonna be getting a wonderful guest to fill in for me

01:40:48   Wonder who that will be who knows it could be literally anybody. I'm probably not Steven

01:40:52   Will not be me won't be Steven. So outside of three of us. It could be anyone so

01:40:58   Make sure you tune in to that. We'll be back next time until then say goodbye Jason and Steven by y'all by Steven by Myke

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