Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [BEEP]

00:00:00 ◼   ► [MUSIC]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 397.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Electric Text Expander,

00:00:17 ◼   ► Capital One and Membeful.

00:00:19 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:22 ◼   ► - Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:23 ◼   ► It's just you and me again.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Just you and me.

00:00:25 ◼   ► - That's a lie because howdy, y'all.

00:00:28 ◼   ► I'm in Memphis, Tennessee and across the table from me,

00:00:31 ◼   ► the relay FM co-founder, host of connected

00:00:34 ◼   ► and Mac power users, Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Hi Steven.

00:00:36 ◼   ► - Hello, Upgradians.

00:00:38 ◼   ► - We realized today, Steven and I,

00:00:40 ◼   ► that we have not seen an Apple event

00:00:42 ◼   ► in person together since--

00:00:44 ◼   ► - 2017.

00:00:45 ◼   ► - 2017, because we only of us were hanging out together

00:00:48 ◼   ► for WWDCs and for a couple, I think one Steven missed.

00:00:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, 2018 we had a death in the family

00:00:55 ◼   ► and I missed the keynote and I came out

00:00:56 ◼   ► just to do the live show.

00:00:59 ◼   ► And then 2019, I had a press badge.

00:01:01 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:01:02 ◼   ► I touched the face of Tim Cook

00:01:05 ◼   ► as he released the Mac Pro.

00:01:06 ◼   ► - And Steven's never allowed to go back.

00:01:08 ◼   ► - And today, I touched my Apple TV remote

00:01:10 ◼   ► as I threw it in the river,

00:01:12 ◼   ► as my Mac Pro was--

00:01:14 ◼   ► - Obsoleted! - Obsoleted,

00:01:15 ◼   ► and the value was drained out of it.

00:01:17 ◼   ► - So we just saw the-- - Hey, hey, hey, hey.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Just to be clear, your Mac Pro, they promised,

00:01:21 ◼   ► would be updated with a new model,

00:01:23 ◼   ► Whereas my beloved large iMac was implied to have been disappeared.

00:01:31 ◼   ► So you know, there's levels here is what I'm saying.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I definitely want to get to that when we get to that because that was a very interesting

00:01:37 ◼   ► thing.

00:01:38 ◼   ► Alright, but Jason, I do have a #SnowTalk question for you before we get started today.

00:01:42 ◼   ► Do you think we made a good decision by drafting early?

00:01:44 ◼   ► We made the best decision.

00:01:46 ◼   ► This is just your opportunity for us to take a victory lap about the fact that on Monday

00:01:51 ◼   ► we made the decision to draft even though we didn't know there was going to be an event

00:01:54 ◼   ► for sure. On Tuesday they didn't announce an event and we looked at each other like,

00:01:58 ◼   ► "Well, mmm, let's see what happens!" And then on Wednesday they announced the event and

00:02:03 ◼   ► we got to do some victory laps of our own in our own homes. Yep. Good decision. Great

00:02:10 ◼   ► decision. Best decision. However though, I don't know if we would have drafted late if

00:02:14 ◼   ► it would have made much of a difference for what happened, but we can go through the results.

00:02:19 ◼   ► We didn't get any MacPix at all.

00:02:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, late in the week, there was more information

00:02:25 ◼   ► that would have allowed us to be more accurate,

00:02:27 ◼   ► but I think it's more fun for us

00:02:28 ◼   ► to just be dead wrong in public.

00:02:30 ◼   ► I think that's better.

00:02:31 ◼   ► - Because-- - And we, yes,

00:02:32 ◼   ► the MacPix is just a river of blood.

00:02:35 ◼   ► It's all MacMany and MacBook Pro.

00:02:38 ◼   ► - So let's do the draft results.

00:02:40 ◼   ► So this one hurts, Jason, I'm not gonna lie.

00:02:45 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I'm hurt by this one.

00:02:47 ◼   ► I was convinced that I had beat you.

00:02:49 ◼   ► the tightest possible oh yeah it did in in the end it came down to the literally

00:02:53 ◼   ► the last seconds of the video this one yeah maybe hurts more than any in a long

00:02:58 ◼   ► time because I was convinced I'd won and then they pulled out and showed the

00:03:02 ◼   ► rainbow stage and you screamed in terror I actually think I can't say on the show

00:03:09 ◼   ► that's how that's how I felt when John Ternus appeared by the way it was like

00:03:13 ◼   ► no no no no we don't want to see him get him out that one felt like a lock though

00:03:16 ◼   ► for me like yeah yeah yeah I wish I was kicking myself because I should have

00:03:20 ◼   ► picked the chip lab like I always do where Johnny Shrooji like I always do

00:03:23 ◼   ► but didn't do it well it wasn't that set really that there was gonna be new chips

00:03:27 ◼   ► like I don't think that we had like a transparent wall with like an airtight

00:03:33 ◼   ► lab in case I don't know some of the chips escape into the air I don't know

00:03:37 ◼   ► what was going on there but yeah so so we we totally blew that the whole max

00:03:44 ◼   ► section was wrong. Everything. Because there was no MacBook Pro, there was no

00:03:48 ◼   ► Mac Mini. Yeah, right. Our iPhone and iPad picks were okay, you got four and I got

00:03:52 ◼   ► three, so that puts you ahead. Because you got everything right in this

00:03:56 ◼   ► category. New iPhone SE keeps the same design. I joked about it because

00:04:00 ◼   ► unconnected you argued that any minor change was a different design, but which is wrong by the way.

00:04:05 ◼   ► That's correct. But it's the same familiar SE. The new iPad Air supports 5G, the new iPad Air

00:04:13 ◼   ► gets center stage and the new iPhone SE has touch ID,

00:04:15 ◼   ► it does, it has the home button, the home button lives.

00:04:17 ◼   ► I got new iPhone SE announced and supports 5G, correct?

00:04:21 ◼   ► New iPad Air keeps the same design, I got correct.

00:04:24 ◼   ► And I said, of course, that the SE would not look

00:04:26 ◼   ► like the previous SE and it does, so I got that wrong.

00:04:28 ◼   ► So it was four three and that took us to the other picks.

00:04:33 ◼   ► And the other picks, there was one,

00:04:35 ◼   ► I got the first one and the last one

00:04:38 ◼   ► because the event takes place on March 8th,

00:04:41 ◼   ► was one of my picks.

00:04:42 ◼   ► March 8th today. It is, last time I checked. You picked Tim Cook presents

00:04:48 ◼   ► from outside Apple Park, which he did not do. Rough. Yeah, that was a tough one. That

00:04:53 ◼   ► was, I liked that pick too. John Ternus presents a segment, you got that right.

00:04:56 ◼   ► And then my second other pick was The Rainbow Stage is Shown, which it was not

00:05:03 ◼   ► shown until the final pullback at the very end of the event, at which point I

00:05:09 ◼   ► cashed in my fifth point which let it all come down, believe it or not, to the

00:05:17 ◼   ► Colors Are draft. Yeah which is still like I'm fine with the way the Colors

00:05:23 ◼   ► Are draft is going although I'm still a bit like probably just because I'm

00:05:27 ◼   ► hurt because I lost. I do have some like questions over colors of silver in the

00:05:33 ◼   ► studio lines when they they don't offer colors but I'm not gonna fight this

00:05:38 ◼   ► point. They call it silver or actually more to the point in the press release

00:05:41 ◼   ► they say that there are silver and black trackpad and keyboard accessories

00:05:45 ◼   ► available that match and that I think is a fairly strong signal that they consider

00:05:51 ◼   ► them to be silver because the silver matches the thing. You know the thing the

00:05:55 ◼   ► other products you see their color names there's no color names on the product

00:06:00 ◼   ► pages that's all I'm gonna say it's the only thing I'm pointing to the crowd. You

00:06:03 ◼   ► gotta follow the evidence to the accessories which are color matched and

00:06:06 ◼   ► are named so I have some real-time follow-up on the technical spec page

00:06:10 ◼   ► for the Mac studio under finish it says one word silver that will work for me

00:06:15 ◼   ► over there you go that will work for me so so the colors are draft which is

00:06:19 ◼   ► silly but and and are things that you know there was a new blue but not it

00:06:24 ◼   ► wasn't a deep blue sea and they went with they went with some different a

00:06:27 ◼   ► forest green or whatever it is a Sierra green I don't even know what doesn't

00:06:31 ◼   ► matter we didn't pick alpine green alpine green right oh yes the alp the

00:06:34 ◼   ► Alps. Product read iPhone SE and that was one of yours and a space gray iPad

00:06:41 ◼   ► Air and that was one of yours. So you got two points in the colored Zara draft. I

00:06:45 ◼   ► chose green and indeed we got a green iPhone 13. Good call on that Jason.

00:06:52 ◼   ► Good call on that. Yeah I was just feeling like spring is in the air. I will say

00:06:56 ◼   ► when they started showing, because if you remember my sec my other pick for my

00:07:00 ◼   ► like, we came up with our name, right? If you remember, I was arguing between

00:07:05 ◼   ► spring yellow and safari green, and when they showed off the alpine green, there

00:07:11 ◼   ► was a lot of, like, animal stuff, and I'm like, "Oh my god, if they call this safari

00:07:14 ◼   ► green, I quit forever, I'm done." Yeah, well it was close, it was a close one. So that

00:07:20 ◼   ► all brought it down to the, my pick of silver, a boring pick, and by the way, a

00:07:25 ◼   ► a lot of starlight, a lot of starlight and some moonlight

00:07:28 ◼   ► or midnight or whatever, but a lot of starlight.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Starlight is happening people,

00:07:33 ◼   ► but the Mac Studio and the studio display

00:07:38 ◼   ► are both new products and they both come in silver,

00:07:43 ◼   ► which by my account gives me a three, two advantage

00:07:46 ◼   ► in the colors are draft, which pushes me ahead

00:07:49 ◼   ► because you won the over under on the length.

00:07:52 ◼   ► It was just under 60 minutes.

00:07:53 ◼   ► - That was even worse, Jason.

00:07:54 ◼   ► I won the tiebreaker as well.

00:07:56 ◼   ► You know, it's just like, God,

00:07:58 ◼   ► those colors just totally screwed me.

00:08:01 ◼   ► I hate the colors are is what I've decided

00:08:03 ◼   ► for the time being. - That's fair.

00:08:04 ◼   ► - Until the colors are, blesses me, one point.

00:08:07 ◼   ► I hate the colors are. (laughs)

00:08:08 ◼   ► - All right. - Congratulations,

00:08:10 ◼   ► Jaseusnow, and you are winning

00:08:11 ◼   ► the first draft of the year.

00:08:13 ◼   ► - I will leave my pennant where it is.

00:08:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, you continue to be champion.

00:08:17 ◼   ► All right, we've got a ton of stuff to talk about today.

00:08:19 ◼   ► Let's take our first break,

00:08:20 ◼   ► and then we can start diving in.

00:08:21 ◼   ► I think we might go mostly chronological order today

00:08:24 ◼   ► because Apple did that for a reason too, I think.

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00:09:51 ◼   ► So Apple TV+ was how we started the event.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Apple and Tim, very happy with their content slate.

00:09:58 ◼   ► Oh, Jason, did you know that they've received

00:10:01 ◼   ► some nominations for some awards?

00:10:02 ◼   ► - Oh, interesting.

00:10:03 ◼   ► For the Academy Award, but also the prestigious BAFTAs.

00:10:06 ◼   ► - Very prestigious BAFTAs.

00:10:07 ◼   ► Very prestigious BAFTAs.

00:10:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, look, we knew they were gonna do this

00:10:12 ◼   ► and if they win any Oscars, oh boy,

00:10:14 ◼   ► they might just do a separate event just to talk about that.

00:10:17 ◼   ► I am very excited over there.

00:10:18 ◼   ► We've got a trailer of some upcoming projects

00:10:21 ◼   ► And there was some stuff that I hadn't known in there,

00:10:24 ◼   ► that there was an animated movie

00:10:25 ◼   ► that I don't remember hearing much about called Luck.

00:10:29 ◼   ► - I think this is one of those movies from the studio

00:10:32 ◼   ► with John Lasseter at it that they made the deal with.

00:10:34 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, okay.

00:10:36 ◼   ► So that's why-- - And I think that's why

00:10:37 ◼   ► it says from the mind of Toy Story and whatever

00:10:40 ◼   ► is like nobody mentioned his name.

00:10:41 ◼   ► - I was thinking, who is that?

00:10:43 ◼   ► And that's why they mention it in a very specific way.

00:10:46 ◼   ► Good call, Jason, yeah, good call.

00:10:48 ◼   ► But the big thing-- - That's what it is.

00:10:50 ◼   ► Friday Night Baseball?

00:10:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, we, Upgradients will know.

00:10:55 ◼   ► And I know Steven is really excited about this story, right?

00:10:58 ◼   ► It's baseball. - Yes.

00:10:59 ◼   ► - He loves his space, Apple.

00:11:00 ◼   ► - He does, he loves it.

00:11:02 ◼   ► So we've been reporting on the rumors, right?

00:11:04 ◼   ► The rumors that Apple is in talks.

00:11:06 ◼   ► And I think what's funny is nobody broke

00:11:08 ◼   ► that the deal was done.

00:11:10 ◼   ► There was a lot of interested bidding on,

00:11:13 ◼   ► and instead they just announced, done deal,

00:11:16 ◼   ► Friday Night Baseball,

00:11:18 ◼   ► which is a very specific kind of package

00:11:20 ◼   ► where they're gonna pick up two games

00:11:21 ◼   ► and they're only gonna be on Apple TV.

00:11:22 ◼   ► They have some sort of exclusivity window to be,

00:11:25 ◼   ► I think we'll get more information about this

00:11:27 ◼   ► now that it's public.

00:11:28 ◼   ► It's also funny because Major League Baseball

00:11:30 ◼   ► is currently locking out its players

00:11:31 ◼   ► in any very bitter labor dispute.

00:11:33 ◼   ► And I thought, well, that Apple money is gonna come up now.

00:11:36 ◼   ► They're gonna be like, look, you guys,

00:11:38 ◼   ► you owners just made more money selling rights, so pay us.

00:11:42 ◼   ► So a little wrinkle to the baseball labor stuff going on.

00:11:46 ◼   ► but this is Apple's first big sports thing

00:11:48 ◼   ► and there's gonna be more, right?

00:11:50 ◼   ► But we've been talking for a while now

00:11:52 ◼   ► about how they were planning on going into live sports

00:11:55 ◼   ► and here we are.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Just rolled right into Apple TV Plus too,

00:11:58 ◼   ► not a special thing or anything,

00:11:59 ◼   ► it's just for Apple TV Plus subscribers.

00:12:01 ◼   ► - 'Cause this is not as big as some of the other stuff

00:12:03 ◼   ► we've been talking about, right?

00:12:04 ◼   ► Where it's like full on rights or taking the ticket,

00:12:08 ◼   ► the NFL ticket, this is like kind of similar-ish,

00:12:11 ◼   ► is this similar-ish to what Amazon's done in the past?

00:12:13 ◼   ► I know they've had some games,

00:12:15 ◼   ► or is that football games, not baseball games?

00:12:17 ◼   ► - Amazon actually has football,

00:12:19 ◼   ► and they have an exclusive starting next season

00:12:22 ◼   ► for Thursday Night Football for the NFL,

00:12:24 ◼   ► and they've got some sports in the UK,

00:12:26 ◼   ► I think they've got some Premier League?

00:12:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think. - Soccer,

00:12:28 ◼   ► and there's other stuff going on.

00:12:29 ◼   ► So Amazon's been experimenting in this area for a while,

00:12:32 ◼   ► and Facebook has experimented with a little bit,

00:12:34 ◼   ► which is kinda weird,

00:12:35 ◼   ► but this is Apple's first step into this world.

00:12:38 ◼   ► - But so what is this Friday Night Baseball?

00:12:41 ◼   ► Did somebody have this before?

00:12:43 ◼   ► What is this?

00:12:44 ◼   ► - I think this is the remnants, part of the remnants

00:12:47 ◼   ► of ESPN's former deal with Major League Baseball

00:12:51 ◼   ► where they had some ability to run games

00:12:55 ◼   ► in weeknight time slots.

00:12:57 ◼   ► There was talk about like more slots,

00:12:59 ◼   ► so I think it's interesting that they focused

00:13:01 ◼   ► on the Friday night and maybe somebody else

00:13:03 ◼   ► is going to buy some of the other slots,

00:13:05 ◼   ► but I think, not 100% on this,

00:13:07 ◼   ► I think this comes out of ESPN changing its deal

00:13:10 ◼   ► and not paying for some of those weekday,

00:13:13 ◼   ► weeknight baseball games.

00:13:16 ◼   ► They still got their Sunday night baseball,

00:13:18 ◼   ► but they used to have more weeknights

00:13:19 ◼   ► and I think they dropped them.

00:13:21 ◼   ► - Right, okay.

00:13:22 ◼   ► So this seems, this is like two, is it like random games?

00:13:26 ◼   ► Like, are they gonna be good games?

00:13:28 ◼   ► - I think they, well, I mean,

00:13:29 ◼   ► I think they'll pick two games every week.

00:13:31 ◼   ► I'm also unclear.

00:13:32 ◼   ► I assume that what it's gonna be

00:13:34 ◼   ► is the local announcers doing the games,

00:13:36 ◼   ► but they said exclusive.

00:13:38 ◼   ► So it's quite, a lot of questions here.

00:13:39 ◼   ► in market or out of market.

00:13:41 ◼   ► So is it exclusive like if your local team

00:13:44 ◼   ► is normally on a cable channel,

00:13:45 ◼   ► but you get picked to be an Apple Friday night game,

00:13:48 ◼   ► does that mean your team is not on TV

00:13:50 ◼   ► unless you have Apple TV Plus?

00:13:52 ◼   ► Maybe, or maybe what it means is it's exclusive nationally.

00:13:55 ◼   ► So it'll be on in local markets,

00:13:58 ◼   ► but that Apple will pick it up for everyone else.

00:14:00 ◼   ► And then the question also is,

00:14:01 ◼   ► are they just picking up the local team's broadcast?

00:14:04 ◼   ► Or are they producing their own broadcast for those games?

00:14:08 ◼   ► And I don't know.

00:14:09 ◼   ► Maybe there's more information that's going to be coming out shortly about that, but right

00:14:14 ◼   ► after the event I don't know those details.

00:14:17 ◼   ► But those are the questions to ask about what's coming for that baseball package.

00:14:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I wonder if they're going to do anything like software-wise about that.

00:14:26 ◼   ► So I'm looking at a press release here.

00:14:28 ◼   ► It's "Fans in the US.

00:14:30 ◼   ► A live show in addition to Friday Night Baseball, fans in the US will be able to enjoy MLB Big

00:14:37 ◼   ► beginning, a live show featuring highlights and look-ins airing every weeknight during

00:14:41 ◼   ► the regular season.

00:14:42 ◼   ► Yeah, so that's the NFL Red Zone equivalent for baseball.

00:14:49 ◼   ► So they'll have that where you can, it's basically instead of surfing around and watching

00:14:52 ◼   ► different games, you tune in this show and they will pop into different games, which

00:14:57 ◼   ► is a different kind of experience.

00:14:59 ◼   ► So that's interesting.

00:15:00 ◼   ► And then on top of that they've got their Friday night game, it says "Free from local

00:15:06 ◼   ► broadcast restrictions. And it's gonna be international. So US, Canada, Australia, Brazil,

00:15:11 ◼   ► Japan, Mexico, Puerto Rico, South Korea, and the UK expanding to additional countries at

00:15:15 ◼   ► a later date. That's cool. There you go. With live pre- and post-game shows available to

00:15:20 ◼   ► fans. So yeah, interesting. It'll be This Is Apple taking their first step into a different

00:15:26 ◼   ► world. That's not bad at all. So once we moved, there was nothing else. I was wondering if

00:15:31 ◼   ► we were gonna get maybe the, like, classical music service or anything like that. There

00:15:34 ◼   ► there was no other services stuff.

00:15:36 ◼   ► I thought we were gonna get more services stuff

00:15:39 ◼   ► just 'cause of the way that Tim started the presentation

00:15:42 ◼   ► talking about like entertainment stuff like that,

00:15:43 ◼   ► but this was the end of that for now.

00:15:45 ◼   ► The iPhone was next, we got green and alpine green,

00:15:49 ◼   ► and then the iPhone SE,

00:15:52 ◼   ► which is basically exactly what we expected it to be.

00:15:55 ◼   ► They got 5G and stronger glass, that's--

00:15:58 ◼   ► - Woo! - And A15 bionic,

00:16:00 ◼   ► that's it, right?

00:16:01 ◼   ► - I think the A15's actually the biggest deal here,

00:16:04 ◼   ► because people who are shopping in that price point

00:16:07 ◼   ► for an iPhone, I would imagine the type of people

00:16:09 ◼   ► who are gonna keep an iPhone for a long time,

00:16:12 ◼   ► and A15's gonna have legs on it for a long time.

00:16:16 ◼   ► And I think there's a lot of iPhone SEs kicking about,

00:16:19 ◼   ► and this seems like a great continuation of that brand

00:16:23 ◼   ► into sort of the modern era,

00:16:25 ◼   ► at least in terms of performance, if not the design,

00:16:28 ◼   ► because the design's the same.

00:16:29 ◼   ► But again, I think people want that.

00:16:30 ◼   ► It helps keep the price point down.

00:16:31 ◼   ► So I think it's a very logical step forward for the SE.

00:16:35 ◼   ► - Smaller iPhone with great value.

00:16:38 ◼   ► So Tim, it's the people that like the iPhone SE.

00:16:40 ◼   ► Jason, do you think that this is multiple years now

00:16:43 ◼   ► with this one again, right?

00:16:44 ◼   ► With the modernization of it now?

00:16:46 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:16:47 ◼   ► I think this is,

00:16:48 ◼   ► that's why they make it an iPhone 13 essentially

00:16:51 ◼   ► is because then they can sell this through,

00:16:54 ◼   ► probably spring of 24 ish,

00:16:57 ◼   ► at which point we'll be debating

00:16:58 ◼   ► whether they're gonna bring back this shape

00:17:00 ◼   ► or if it's gonna be maybe the mini design

00:17:04 ◼   ► that coming back at last, I don't know.

00:17:06 ◼   ► But my guess is, yeah, this is a two or three year thing

00:17:08 ◼   ► where they'll let it ride.

00:17:09 ◼   ► 'Cause now it's up to date, now it's current.

00:17:12 ◼   ► And then this has been their MO

00:17:13 ◼   ► is they rev it to something that's modern,

00:17:16 ◼   ► not something that's lousy.

00:17:17 ◼   ► And then they just let it sit there for a long time.

00:17:20 ◼   ► - Starting at 429.

00:17:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, more expensive than the old model, I believe.

00:17:25 ◼   ► - Really?

00:17:27 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:17:28 ◼   ► I think that's a little bit more.

00:17:29 ◼   ► I think the old one was at $399,

00:17:32 ◼   ► and my guess is it's that 5G modem.

00:17:34 ◼   ► Are there been reports

00:17:35 ◼   ► that that's the most expensive individual component?

00:17:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:39 ◼   ► So if we solve, if it's $30 more for 5G,

00:17:42 ◼   ► and we solve for G, G equals six.

00:17:44 ◼   ► Six.

00:17:45 ◼   ► $6.

00:17:46 ◼   ► Oh, wow.

00:17:47 ◼   ► Every G, yeah.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Glad we got that solved.

00:17:49 ◼   ► Or is it that every G, or is G worth $30?

00:17:53 ◼   ► One G is worth 30.

00:17:54 ◼   ► In total.

00:17:54 ◼   ► Yeah, 'cause we're up to five,

00:17:56 ◼   ► 'cause we came from four.

00:17:57 ◼   ► - It's 150. - We can go from zero G

00:17:58 ◼   ► to this, zero G to five G.

00:18:01 ◼   ► - Five G, okay.

00:18:02 ◼   ► - Anything else on the iPhone SE, I mean,

00:18:04 ◼   ► I don't really have anything to say about it.

00:18:06 ◼   ► It's cool if you want it, you know,

00:18:07 ◼   ► and like there's people that want it,

00:18:08 ◼   ► but it doesn't excite me as a product.

00:18:10 ◼   ► - And you can have any color you want,

00:18:12 ◼   ► as long as it's midnight starlight or product red.

00:18:14 ◼   ► - iPad Air, M1 chip, super fast compared to the A14 chip.

00:18:19 ◼   ► Center stage, we were expecting this,

00:18:21 ◼   ► 12 megapixel ultra wide camera, five G, faster USB-C.

00:18:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, it didn't get Thunderbolt like the Pro.

00:18:29 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:18:30 ◼   ► - So that's still one thing that distinguishes.

00:18:32 ◼   ► For all those people using Thunderbolt with an iPad,

00:18:35 ◼   ► you still want the iPad Pro.

00:18:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, that was my feeling at all.

00:18:38 ◼   ► As somebody who just bought a 12.9 inch M1 iPad Pro,

00:18:43 ◼   ► I had that moment of like, oh, you know,

00:18:45 ◼   ► you have that kind of envy moment of like,

00:18:47 ◼   ► oh, but now there's much, people who only spend 599

00:18:50 ◼   ► can now get an M1 iPad.

00:18:52 ◼   ► But then I immediately thought,

00:18:53 ◼   ► It's not like I'm using the super power of the M1

00:18:56 ◼   ► in what I do day to day on my iPad anyway,

00:18:59 ◼   ► even when I use it kind of heavily, it's fine.

00:19:01 ◼   ► And similar with Thunderbolt, it's like,

00:19:03 ◼   ► all right, I've got it, but I actually don't care.

00:19:08 ◼   ► So that's fine.

00:19:09 ◼   ► I feel like the real differentiator

00:19:11 ◼   ► in the iPad Pro right now,

00:19:13 ◼   ► at least at the 12.9 is that display, right?

00:19:16 ◼   ► It's the mini LED high dynamic range display.

00:19:20 ◼   ► and all rumors point to the smaller iPad Pro

00:19:24 ◼   ► getting that too.

00:19:24 ◼   ► So that's a place where the iPad Pro

00:19:26 ◼   ► still can lord it over the iPad Air.

00:19:28 ◼   ► Also, they're doing the same game

00:19:29 ◼   ► that they did last time with the iPad Air

00:19:31 ◼   ► where it's got a low entry price,

00:19:33 ◼   ► but it's for a 64 gig model.

00:19:35 ◼   ► - That's terrible.

00:19:36 ◼   ► I was super mad when I saw that.

00:19:39 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:19:39 ◼   ► And then you got to step it up, like way up,

00:19:41 ◼   ► at which point you're in iPad Pro territory

00:19:44 ◼   ► if you want more storage.

00:19:45 ◼   ► That's frustrating.

00:19:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was hoping that they would, they'd fix that.

00:19:49 ◼   ► I bought Mary, my wife, an iPad Air when it came out,

00:19:52 ◼   ► what, two years ago.

00:19:54 ◼   ► And I was telling Myke, she absolutely loves it.

00:19:56 ◼   ► She likes the color, she likes that it's thin and light,

00:19:58 ◼   ► it's fast, and I don't see a big reason to upgrade to this

00:20:03 ◼   ► if you have an existing iPad Air,

00:20:05 ◼   ► but if you have one of the older body styles,

00:20:08 ◼   ► this seems like maybe the time to jump in.

00:20:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, 64 gigabytes is 599, 256 gigabytes is 749.

00:20:15 ◼   ► It's just, it's too big.

00:20:18 ◼   ► - At which point you could go to the 128 iPad Pro

00:20:21 ◼   ► for $50 more and get other kind of iPad Pro goodness.

00:20:26 ◼   ► At center stage, that's nice.

00:20:28 ◼   ► That's gonna be a theme.

00:20:29 ◼   ► Everybody gets that 12 megapixel camera

00:20:31 ◼   ► in center stage now.

00:20:32 ◼   ► - It's everywhere.

00:20:33 ◼   ► It's everywhere.

00:20:34 ◼   ► - That's good.

00:20:35 ◼   ► It's good.

00:20:36 ◼   ► - But nothing much there.

00:20:38 ◼   ► I mean, so you're saying about the USPC to Thunderbolt thing.

00:20:41 ◼   ► What's the actual realistic difference?

00:20:44 ◼   ► Is that what, like what?

00:20:45 ◼   ► - You can plug in Thunderbolt accessories

00:20:47 ◼   ► and use that speed of a Thunderbolt accessory.

00:20:49 ◼   ► There's compatibility with Thunderbolt

00:20:51 ◼   ► and the speed that Thunderbolt offers over USB.

00:20:55 ◼   ► That's it. - Right.

00:20:56 ◼   ► I think there may also be video resolution differences,

00:20:59 ◼   ► but I'm not sure off the top of my head,

00:21:01 ◼   ► so I don't wanna-- - In terms of output?

00:21:03 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

00:21:04 ◼   ► Yeah, we got, we'll get to it, the standalone display,

00:21:09 ◼   ► and the iPad is like,

00:21:12 ◼   ► I guess you could probably plug an iPad into it,

00:21:14 ◼   ► but whatever, we're not gonna talk about it.

00:21:17 ◼   ► So, oh well.

00:21:19 ◼   ► - Are you excited about new iMovie?

00:21:20 ◼   ► It's the pro app you've been looking for, right Jason?

00:21:22 ◼   ► That's what you wanted?

00:21:23 ◼   ► Oh no, wait.

00:21:25 ◼   ► - It's kick, I'm kicking myself,

00:21:27 ◼   ► not drafting, iMovie is mentioned in the draft this time.

00:21:32 ◼   ► Go figure.

00:21:33 ◼   ► And then I immediately saw a friend of ours

00:21:35 ◼   ► who works in the entertainment industry saying

00:21:37 ◼   ► there is literally no aspiring filmmaker

00:21:39 ◼   ► who should use iMovie, but it's yay.

00:21:42 ◼   ► They threw it in there.

00:21:43 ◼   ► Good job.

00:21:44 ◼   ► Somebody in the iMovie team is really happy today.

00:21:46 ◼   ► - Hey look, we're speeding through here,

00:21:48 ◼   ► just like Apple did.

00:21:49 ◼   ► There's good reasons.

00:21:50 ◼   ► Got a lot of Mac stuff to talk about.

00:21:52 ◼   ► Should we take our second break and get to it?

00:21:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, let's do it.

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00:23:14 ◼   ► All right, so let's talk about some Mac stuff.

00:23:16 ◼   ► Should we talk about the M1 Ultra?

00:23:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:19 ◼   ► Now, I wasn't expecting this today, I don't think.

00:23:23 ◼   ► All right, so let's just say we weren't expecting anything today other than like,

00:23:26 ◼   ► by the draft, boring updates.

00:23:29 ◼   ► It's boring machines.

00:23:30 ◼   ► You know, like, that's kind of what we were really expecting,

00:23:33 ◼   ► like this time last Monday.

00:23:35 ◼   ► Um, which like everyone was thinking,

00:23:38 ◼   ► we're gonna get an update to the MacBook Pro and an update to the Mac Mini, which didn't happen in the event.

00:23:42 ◼   ► I don't think anything's on Apple's website.

00:23:44 ◼   ► Things are basically staying as they are for those, which I think actually also makes sense.

00:23:49 ◼   ► To the point that the Intel Mac Mini is still for sale. Okay.

00:23:53 ◼   ► Interesting. Is the iMac still for sale? No, the 27-inch iMac is completely gone from Apple's website. Okay, we'll get to that shortly.

00:24:00 ◼   ► This is, um, I think I did expect that it's possible we would get a high-end Mac Mini or a high-end

00:24:07 ◼   ► end iMac. And I did suggest that it was possible we might see the dual M1 Macs as a high-end

00:24:17 ◼   ► configuration there. I was sort of like toying with that idea of like it's an almost Mac Pro,

00:24:21 ◼   ► but not quite. And that is what we got, but in a new computer. But this is the Jade 2C die

00:24:30 ◼   ► that Mark Gurman wrote about like a year ago. It's two M1 Macs connected together,

00:24:36 ◼   ► And that was the bulk of what Johnny Srouji talked about here, right?

00:24:40 ◼   ► Which is the idea that they have built.

00:24:43 ◼   ► I love this.

00:24:45 ◼   ► It's even more capable than we said.

00:24:46 ◼   ► It has a secret hidden feature.

00:24:47 ◼   ► - Secret, I love that.

00:24:48 ◼   ► It has a secret.

00:24:49 ◼   ► The M1 has a secret.

00:24:51 ◼   ► - Other than Mark Gurman's reporting, it was a secret.

00:24:54 ◼   ► And the idea is that they directly interconnect so that they can share.

00:24:57 ◼   ► They're much faster to share.

00:24:59 ◼   ► So it doesn't behave quite like having two chips on a motherboard.

00:25:02 ◼   ► sort of these two chips that are interconnected together,

00:25:06 ◼   ► and it allows it to be that much faster.

00:25:10 ◼   ► - Is this the biggest chip, do you think?

00:25:13 ◼   ► - I think it will be in the M1 family.

00:25:15 ◼   ► When John Ternus announced, he said,

00:25:16 ◼   ► we're adding one more member to the M1 lineup.

00:25:19 ◼   ► And so my, I mean, if we're gonna go to Speculation Town--

00:25:22 ◼   ► - I would love that. - For a second.

00:25:23 ◼   ► - Let's do it. - Let's take a trip.

00:25:24 ◼   ► - It's down the street from Donkletown.

00:25:26 ◼   ► Was that a train?

00:25:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's how you get from Donkletown to Speculation Town.

00:25:28 ◼   ► - It's actually right across the back pasture

00:25:31 ◼   ► from the rumor roundup. Okay, well buckle up cowboys. So they've said the, I mean

00:25:37 ◼   ► Turner said the Mac Pro is like coming at a later date. He basically winked at the

00:25:40 ◼   ► camera. I mean I loved it. We'll get to that too. There should have been a sound effect. So I think we can think about

00:25:46 ◼   ► this M1 Ultra chip. Like where does it leave room for Apple to go faster? And if

00:25:53 ◼   ► this is the last M1 we're gonna see, maybe the M2 line has the ability to

00:25:58 ◼   ► to have four of these, which again, Gurman talked about a quad die setup.

00:26:04 ◼   ► Yeah, a 4C die.

00:26:05 ◼   ► That's right.

00:26:06 ◼   ► And so maybe this M1 Ultra, it rounds out the M1 generation, and maybe in the fall we'll

00:26:12 ◼   ► start seeing M2 products with the crowning achievement there being the M2 Ultra, and

00:26:19 ◼   ► then maybe something even above that.

00:26:20 ◼   ► M2 Extreme.

00:26:21 ◼   ► M2 Infinite!

00:26:22 ◼   ► No, Extreme.

00:26:23 ◼   ► I'm calling it now.

00:26:24 ◼   ► Extreme.

00:26:25 ◼   ► Extreme.

00:26:26 ◼   ► Extreme.

00:26:27 ◼   ► later on. The big chip draft. But I think clearly from the beginning they've had machines

00:26:35 ◼   ► like this in mind. I mean they had that graphic up for a second and it showed their representation

00:26:42 ◼   ► of the die. The M1 is like a postage stamp and then you have the M1 Ultra. It's like

00:26:48 ◼   ► Gray's paper size video. And it really spoke to me like they have really planned all this

00:26:55 ◼   ► from the beginning to have this extremely scalable infrastructure and design and I think

00:27:04 ◼   ► that's going to pay off with this M1 Ultra.

00:27:06 ◼   ► Now we can get to the product it's in, it comes at a price, but if you need that, it's

00:27:11 ◼   ► definitely going to be the best thing going.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Also shows their efficiency in, they're making the chips themselves, they're designing their

00:27:19 ◼   ► products around these chips, and so you're seeing like, here are all the iPhones, they've

00:27:23 ◼   ► got the A15. Here are these iPad Pros and the iPad Air now, we're just gonna stick M1s

00:27:28 ◼   ► in them. We're gonna M1 all the things on the low end. And then higher up we can scale

00:27:34 ◼   ► it up with the Pro, which is basically a binned Max, and the Max, and now the Max Ultra, which

00:27:39 ◼   ► is the, you know, two wide, that they have built this whole family and they built their

00:27:45 ◼   ► products around it and you can start to see the kind of like the efficiency that they

00:27:49 ◼   ► gain from this. But I was really taken by the fact that he said this is sort of the

00:27:56 ◼   ► last chip in the M1 line because I know that Myke and I talked about this last time, but

00:28:01 ◼   ► one of the possibilities for this event really was let's close out the M1 generation. And

00:28:07 ◼   ► then the next event presumably will open up the M2 generation. And I thought that was

00:28:12 ◼   ► interesting that he just came out and said, like, this is the last, essentially, one last

00:28:17 ◼   ► M1 variant and then we go from here and it's not bad for a first generation, right?

00:28:22 ◼   ► No. Go all the way from that little M1 all the way up to this M1 Ultra. And I think it helps keep,

00:28:28 ◼   ► you know, we talked about this on Connected, I think the possible confusion like they have M1

00:28:33 ◼   ► and M2 and they're still obviously going to overlap, but I do kind of think like having

00:28:38 ◼   ► this pause and them saying like this is the top M1, you know, and it's the last M1 we're going to

00:28:45 ◼   ► to see is was the strong inference I think I think that may help clarify it

00:28:50 ◼   ► to people who think about these things in a more serious way than just going

00:28:55 ◼   ► into an Apple store and buying whatever the new MacBook Air is right because

00:28:58 ◼   ► that's what most people are gonna do and that's what most people should do but

00:29:01 ◼   ► kind of having this line of the sand of like this is the M1 range and now we're

00:29:07 ◼   ► gonna probably start back at the beginning with the consumer grade M2

00:29:10 ◼   ► you know maybe this summer or fall. Yeah there's a lot of huge statistics that

00:29:16 ◼   ► like a lot of them are very complicated to me. What Apple are calling the

00:29:21 ◼   ► technology that they're using to interconnect the two M1 max chips is

00:29:26 ◼   ► called UltraFusion so that's the brand name that they've given. We're branding

00:29:30 ◼   ► UltraFusion. UltraFusion. And if I wrote this down correctly that's 2.5 terabytes

00:29:37 ◼   ► per second interprocessor bandwidth. 114 billion transistors which is my favorite amount of

00:29:44 ◼   ► transistors and it can do 800 gigabytes per second memory bandwidth. It has 128 gigabytes

00:29:51 ◼   ► of RAM maximum capability. It is a 20 core CPU with 16 performance cores and 4 efficiency

00:29:58 ◼   ► cores P and E cores as we know them on this show. It has a 64 core GPU 32 neural cores.

00:30:05 ◼   ► This is monstrous.

00:30:08 ◼   ► It is, and it's a little bit ridiculous, and I'm gonna say...

00:30:12 ◼   ► Okay, so we're gonna talk in a moment about the computer that it's in, right?

00:30:18 ◼   ► Some of those statistics are worth keeping for that, because I think it is dependent

00:30:23 ◼   ► on its chassis too, right, to help it go the speeds that it gets to.

00:30:27 ◼   ► So I think the best way to think about it is, this is a Mac Pro chip.

00:30:30 ◼   ► But we have to redefine what a pro Mac is now,

00:30:34 ◼   ► because there's not just the Mac Pro,

00:30:36 ◼   ► there's also this new Mac Studio.

00:30:40 ◼   ► But it's a Mac Pro chip.

00:30:41 ◼   ► And I think it's, I mean, you can tell,

00:30:43 ◼   ► because the price of the M1 Macs configuration

00:30:48 ◼   ► is half of the price of the M1 Ultra configuration.

00:30:51 ◼   ► It's like the chip, like literally the chip,

00:30:54 ◼   ► double the chips, double the price.

00:30:56 ◼   ► - Yes, it's $1,999 versus $3,999.

00:31:01 ◼   ► It's the starting prices for those two chip configurations.

00:31:04 ◼   ► - So the point I wanna make here is,

00:31:06 ◼   ► it's fun to talk about the ridiculous numbers

00:31:10 ◼   ► in the M1 Ultra.

00:31:11 ◼   ► And it is fascinating to see them do

00:31:14 ◼   ► what has been rumored for a year,

00:31:15 ◼   ► which is this interconnecting two high-end

00:31:18 ◼   ► Apple Silicon chips to push it for pro performance.

00:31:22 ◼   ► But let's also be clear.

00:31:24 ◼   ► This is a Mac Pro style chip in the sense also

00:31:27 ◼   ► that it's not necessary, it's extra.

00:31:30 ◼   ► Like most Mac use, even among pros,

00:31:35 ◼   ► does not require this level of performance.

00:31:38 ◼   ► This is for the highest end needs.

00:31:42 ◼   ► And so I would bet that most of the Mac studios sold

00:31:47 ◼   ► will not be configured with the M1 Ultra.

00:31:53 ◼   ► but it's great that it's there.

00:31:55 ◼   ► 'Cause that's the whole point of having a high end

00:31:58 ◼   ► of your architecture is for the people

00:32:00 ◼   ► who are the most ravenous.

00:32:02 ◼   ► They give me all the GPUs, give me all the cores.

00:32:05 ◼   ► I need everything.

00:32:06 ◼   ► I need all the memory bandwidth, everything.

00:32:09 ◼   ► They will spend whatever it takes to get it.

00:32:12 ◼   ► And so this sets the new high watermark

00:32:15 ◼   ► for Mac performance.

00:32:16 ◼   ► And that's great.

00:32:17 ◼   ► Now, presumably it will be reset by a Mac Pro

00:32:20 ◼   ► that probably offers,

00:32:22 ◼   ► you could buy all the way up to four M2 extreme

00:32:27 ◼   ► or whatever you guys said.

00:32:28 ◼   ► - Extreme, extreme.

00:32:30 ◼   ► - But I also, when we get to the computer, I wanna say,

00:32:33 ◼   ► you know, don't over-focus on the M1 Ultra

00:32:36 ◼   ► because remember when the MacBook Pro came out

00:32:39 ◼   ► with the M1 Max and we were like, whoa, that's a lot.

00:32:43 ◼   ► Well, that's the base model of this new computer

00:32:47 ◼   ► that came out today.

00:32:48 ◼   ► And most people will not be using the M1 Ultra

00:32:51 ◼   ► even because it's more performance than almost any job needs,

00:32:56 ◼   ► but for the people,

00:32:58 ◼   ► but it is important to offer something all the way up there

00:33:01 ◼   ► because there are people for whom money is no object.

00:33:05 ◼   ► They just want performance

00:33:06 ◼   ► and this thing will give it to them.

00:33:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, a couple of things came to mind

00:33:10 ◼   ► as you were speaking.

00:33:11 ◼   ► First of all, there's a world where the Max Studio

00:33:14 ◼   ► could have been the M1 Pro and M1 Max,

00:33:17 ◼   ► but I think they want an Apple Silicon chip out there

00:33:19 ◼   ► that can meet the needs of those very specific workloads,

00:33:22 ◼   ► like you said.

00:33:23 ◼   ► But the other thing that I picked up in the keynote was,

00:33:27 ◼   ► let's rewind the clock a little bit.

00:33:29 ◼   ► When Apple switched to Apple Silicon,

00:33:30 ◼   ► heck, when they switched to Intel,

00:33:33 ◼   ► a lot of performance per watt, energy savings,

00:33:38 ◼   ► low temperature, all that sort of conversation.

00:33:41 ◼   ► And when they were introducing the M1 Ultra,

00:33:44 ◼   ► I felt like they sort of, they're like, okay,

00:33:46 ◼   ► in most of the machines,

00:33:47 ◼   ► performance per watt is really important.

00:33:49 ◼   ► But in this machine, it's not as important.

00:33:52 ◼   ► If you just look at the core counts,

00:33:54 ◼   ► the 20 core M1 Ultra is 16P14E, or 4E, excuse me.

00:33:59 ◼   ► Just little four little high efficiency chips there

00:34:05 ◼   ► that I'm sure are only there just to keep

00:34:07 ◼   ► the software compatibility the same.

00:34:09 ◼   ► But what we're seeing with this chip is,

00:34:11 ◼   ► okay, let's give Apple Silicon more cooling

00:34:14 ◼   ► than we ever have.

00:34:15 ◼   ► I mean this thing, like, we'll get to the design of it,

00:34:18 ◼   ► but it's built for cooling,

00:34:20 ◼   ► and let's give it just as much power as it wants.

00:34:24 ◼   ► And Apple is even quick to say,

00:34:26 ◼   ► "Well, it's still less power than our PC friends

00:34:28 ◼   ► "over there on the other side of the world."

00:34:31 ◼   ► But this really, to me, I think shows that Apple

00:34:35 ◼   ► is willing to play with that performance per watt number,

00:34:39 ◼   ► and willing to make different decisions

00:34:42 ◼   ► on what the system on a chip and what the product needs,

00:34:45 ◼   ► and that's not something we've seen from them

00:34:48 ◼   ► in recent history.

00:34:50 ◼   ► And I think to me, that's what's most exciting about it is,

00:34:53 ◼   ► they have built this chip and it has very different heat

00:34:56 ◼   ► and energy requirements from the other chips it's based on,

00:34:59 ◼   ► and Apple just went for it.

00:35:00 ◼   ► And that's exciting because again,

00:35:02 ◼   ► it gives me things in my imagination

00:35:05 ◼   ► to consider what the quad would look like

00:35:07 ◼   ► or what a Mac Pro would look like down the road.

00:35:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think to build on that a little bit,

00:35:11 ◼   ► I think Apple like to be able to be the best at something.

00:35:16 ◼   ► And when they can be the best at something, they go all out.

00:35:20 ◼   ► And they just couldn't do this with Intel.

00:35:23 ◼   ► Like they couldn't be better than anybody else

00:35:26 ◼   ► because they were working from the same set of tools

00:35:29 ◼   ► that anybody else had available to them.

00:35:31 ◼   ► And so now they can, and they do have the ability

00:35:34 ◼   ► to make the fastest CPUs and GPUs around,

00:35:37 ◼   ► like in their classes, they just keep doing it

00:35:39 ◼   ► and they keep doing it more and more and more

00:35:41 ◼   ► because they can.

00:35:43 ◼   ► So they just do it.

00:35:46 ◼   ► Like, and so they are, I think, you know,

00:35:49 ◼   ► like when you were talking about the Ultra

00:35:51 ◼   ► in the Max Studio, Jason, it was making me think,

00:35:54 ◼   ► like that machine is built, the Max Studio,

00:35:58 ◼   ► to be capable of whatever the Ultra can throw at it.

00:36:01 ◼   ► So then if you put a Max in it, I mean,

00:36:02 ◼   ► you're getting so many of those benefits

00:36:04 ◼   ► just because they had to build it with so much headroom

00:36:07 ◼   ► that it makes the overall experience better.

00:36:09 ◼   ► and that's going to be interesting to see how that ends up spreading out further and

00:36:13 ◼   ► further.

00:36:14 ◼   ► You know, I would argue that the MacBook Pros benefit from this, right?

00:36:16 ◼   ► Like if you get a MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro, you are benefiting because this machine had

00:36:21 ◼   ► to be made to support the M1 Macs, so there's benefit to you there.

00:36:25 ◼   ► So it's interesting how like them just pushing for this performance makes everything more

00:36:29 ◼   ► exciting and I think what is very clear is that the Mac team at Apple is invigorated

00:36:35 ◼   ► top to bottom right now because they are just turning out bonkers stuff.

00:36:39 ◼   ► Well, I was gonna ask Steven, unofficial Mac historian, perhaps official Mac historian,

00:36:45 ◼   ► Steven.

00:36:46 ◼   ► I think it's pretty official.

00:36:47 ◼   ► Official at least.

00:36:48 ◼   ► When's, what was the last new Mac?

00:36:54 ◼   ► Like new Mac with a new, not a replacement of an existing skew.

00:37:00 ◼   ► It would be the 12 inch MacBook.

00:37:03 ◼   ► I was thinking this, but that was called MacBook, and there was another product called MacBook.

00:37:06 ◼   ► But the two shared a name, but nothing in common.

00:37:09 ◼   ► I mean, look, there's one right here and one right there.

00:37:11 ◼   ► But it was the name.

00:37:12 ◼   ► Yeah, but it's a brand.

00:37:13 ◼   ► I'm saying, what was the first new Mac name?

00:37:16 ◼   ► MacBook Pro, probably?

00:37:18 ◼   ► Or iMac Pro.

00:37:19 ◼   ► iMac Pro.

00:37:20 ◼   ► iMac Pro.

00:37:21 ◼   ► It would have been the last one.

00:37:22 ◼   ► iMac Pro is the last new.

00:37:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:24 ◼   ► And even then, it's like, "Eh, but it's an iMac."

00:37:25 ◼   ► I'm just saying, this doesn't happen that often when you get something where it's broken

00:37:29 ◼   ► out of the grid.

00:37:30 ◼   ► We've spent a long time where they're sort of like,

00:37:32 ◼   ► you got Mac Mini, you got iMac, you got MacBook Pro,

00:37:36 ◼   ► you got MacBook Air.

00:37:37 ◼   ► - They don't do it very often.

00:37:39 ◼   ► - Mac Pro.

00:37:41 ◼   ► - I think we were talking about this in Slack

00:37:42 ◼   ► or iMessage, I think I wrote about it,

00:37:44 ◼   ► like 2022, the year Apple makes a new desktop computer.

00:37:48 ◼   ► It's very strange.

00:37:49 ◼   ► But they, to your point about them being invigorated,

00:37:54 ◼   ► they want to meet the needs of all different types

00:37:57 ◼   ► of Mac users.

00:37:58 ◼   ► And in the Intel world, they were handcuffed a little bit

00:38:03 ◼   ► about how they could do that.

00:38:04 ◼   ► Now, some of that was totally on Apple, right?

00:38:06 ◼   ► They were chipsets and designs Apple could have used

00:38:09 ◼   ► in the Intel era that they didn't, right?

00:38:11 ◼   ► There was room for something like this in the Intel era

00:38:13 ◼   ► and they didn't do it.

00:38:15 ◼   ► Maybe that high-end 2018 Mac Mini got close.

00:38:18 ◼   ► But with this, like, if this, okay,

00:38:20 ◼   ► so if this is the end of the M1 line,

00:38:22 ◼   ► and let's just say the Mac Pro starts with an M2 derivative,

00:38:26 ◼   ► this is the only M1 Ultra machine they may ever ship.

00:38:31 ◼   ► And you know, maybe it comes in an iMac Pro down the road,

00:38:34 ◼   ► but like this chip may not show up in many machines,

00:38:37 ◼   ► but they spent the time and the money and the energy

00:38:41 ◼   ► to make it for this product that's gonna meet the needs

00:38:44 ◼   ► of a lot of people.

00:38:45 ◼   ► I'm just excited about that.

00:38:47 ◼   ► You know, I think Apple makes,

00:38:49 ◼   ► Apple obviously has to make decisions for the masses,

00:38:51 ◼   ► but some of the most interesting decisions they make

00:38:54 ◼   ► are for these smaller groups of users.

00:38:58 ◼   ► And I think the Inland Ultra is like a shining example

00:39:00 ◼   ► of that.

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00:40:18 ◼   ► show in relay FM studio studio studio this is interesting because the way they

00:40:25 ◼   ► positioned it it's like we have created a whole new family of things and I guess

00:40:31 ◼   ► we can maybe assume we might see other things in studio later on but having a

00:40:35 ◼   ► computer and a monitor branding them under one kind of umbrella I love it I

00:40:40 ◼   ► think this is awesome because you know what I have a studio and I'm in one

00:40:43 ◼   ► right now and it's Stevens and Jason has a studio in his garage and I love that

00:40:47 ◼   ► they did that too where it's like studios are all kinds of things to all

00:40:50 ◼   ► different types of people. I love this so much more than pro because pro as a name

00:40:58 ◼   ► especially in computers I think says something that like I have to be a

00:41:02 ◼   ► professional but the work in studios can be creative work it can be side work it

00:41:08 ◼   ► can be something you're trying to work out yourself you don't consider yourself

00:41:12 ◼   ► a professional but hey I'm using this computer in my studio I really love it

00:41:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, it legitimizes that sort of middle ground in a way.

00:41:21 ◼   ► Remember, that was one thing that was so great

00:41:26 ◼   ► about the iMac Pro is that it sort of lived in the space

00:41:30 ◼   ► this machine lives in where it, I mean,

00:41:33 ◼   ► all three of us owned them.

00:41:34 ◼   ► Jason, you're still using one.

00:41:36 ◼   ► It gave people an option when the Mac Pro wasn't viable

00:41:41 ◼   ► and then when it was, but was expensive.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And I mean, don't get me wrong, you can make the Mac Studio,

00:41:49 ◼   ► you can make it pretty expensive,

00:41:51 ◼   ► but it doesn't have to be.

00:41:53 ◼   ► I wrote this thing years and years ago,

00:41:55 ◼   ► I think Jason, with your help probably,

00:41:57 ◼   ► like the 1999 Tower, like the idea that back in like the G5

00:42:02 ◼   ► and early Mac Pro days, you could get a quote unquote

00:42:05 ◼   ► Pro machine with a pretty low entry price,

00:42:08 ◼   ► and that's something that's been missing.

00:42:10 ◼   ► And the Mac Studio fulfills that promise,

00:42:13 ◼   ► but also you can spec it up with the chip,

00:42:14 ◼   ► we just spent 20 minutes talking about

00:42:17 ◼   ► and make it a monster.

00:42:18 ◼   ► And the range this machine seems to have

00:42:21 ◼   ► really honestly is impressive to me.

00:42:25 ◼   ► And I think they've got a winner on their hands.

00:42:28 ◼   ► I'm excited.

00:42:28 ◼   ► - I feel, yeah, I think bringing up the iMac Pro

00:42:32 ◼   ► is interesting 'cause I think you can see in Apple

00:42:35 ◼   ► in the 2010s this sort of struggle

00:42:39 ◼   ► as the Mac Pro got more expensive

00:42:41 ◼   ► because they really did reposition the Mac Pro gradually.

00:42:44 ◼   ► It used to be, right, Power Macs,

00:42:46 ◼   ► like everybody got Power Macs.

00:42:47 ◼   ► Everybody who's an enthusiast, a power user,

00:42:51 ◼   ► like there were so many people, you bought a Power Mac,

00:42:53 ◼   ► you didn't buy an iMac, you didn't buy a Performa

00:42:55 ◼   ► or whatever, you bought a Power Mac, that was the thing.

00:42:57 ◼   ► And that became, so Power Mac became the Mac Pro,

00:43:01 ◼   ► but like as it became, the Power Mac G5 became the Mac Pro

00:43:05 ◼   ► and then it has evolved since then,

00:43:07 ◼   ► like it kept getting more expensive and more esoteric

00:43:10 ◼   ► because the main line of Macs became more powerful.

00:43:15 ◼   ► And, you know, Steven and I know have talked about this

00:43:19 ◼   ► and we did it with 20 Macs for 2020.

00:43:21 ◼   ► Like when the original G3 iMac came out,

00:43:24 ◼   ► anybody who was a serious Mac user looked at it

00:43:26 ◼   ► and said it was basically a toy.

00:43:28 ◼   ► Like it was not a serious,

00:43:29 ◼   ► it was a underpowered thing for consumers.

00:43:32 ◼   ► But if you follow, if you chart the next 15 years,

00:43:36 ◼   ► it's hard to argue in the 2010s at some point

00:43:40 ◼   ► that most people shouldn't buy an iMac

00:43:43 ◼   ► if they want a desktop Mac or a Mac mini

00:43:46 ◼   ► because the Mac Pro became so expensive

00:43:49 ◼   ► and so high powered and really a niche product

00:43:52 ◼   ► for the very highest end.

00:43:55 ◼   ► And the iMac was so powerful that like,

00:43:57 ◼   ► I mean, I think it wasn't just Apple deciding

00:43:58 ◼   ► the Mac Pro would be expensive.

00:44:00 ◼   ► I think it's Apple also recognizing that the iMac

00:44:02 ◼   ► was no longer compromised in the way it used to be

00:44:04 ◼   ► and it was really the mainstream Mac most people should buy

00:44:07 ◼   ► if they wanted something on their desktop.

00:44:09 ◼   ► And then the Mac Mini I'll throw in there,

00:44:11 ◼   ► this idea that you could configure up an iMac

00:44:15 ◼   ► to put on like an i7 Intel processor and all of that.

00:44:18 ◼   ► And then they did an iMac Pro with a Xeon in it.

00:44:22 ◼   ► And then you could configure up the Mac Mini as well.

00:44:25 ◼   ► And you end up in this really weird state

00:44:29 ◼   ► where these products that are not high-end products,

00:44:34 ◼   ► but they're being pushed up at their high-end versions

00:44:39 ◼   ► to be powerful enough that you don't need a Mac Pro.

00:44:43 ◼   ► And when I think about Mac Studio,

00:44:46 ◼   ► and I mean, we've only known about it

00:44:48 ◼   ► for a couple of hours now,

00:44:49 ◼   ► but when I start to grapple with it,

00:44:51 ◼   ► I start to think about that attempt by Apple in the 2010s

00:44:55 ◼   ► to sort of use the high-end of Intel's processors

00:44:57 ◼   ► that were available and the thermal dynamics

00:45:00 ◼   ► of the systems that they had built

00:45:03 ◼   ► to offer that level of performance.

00:45:06 ◼   ► It's like not quite Mac Pro,

00:45:07 ◼   ► but like good enough for almost everybody

00:45:10 ◼   ► into these computers that were more mainstream,

00:45:14 ◼   ► but you could spec them up.

00:45:16 ◼   ► And the Mac Studio feels to me like it's Apple saying,

00:45:19 ◼   ► no, no, no, no, no, we're not gonna do that anymore.

00:45:22 ◼   ► Like those systems are designed to be what they are.

00:45:25 ◼   ► That 24-inch iMac is designed to be an M1.

00:45:29 ◼   ► And it's, if you want to be serious,

00:45:33 ◼   ► but not buy a Mac Pro, we have now made a product,

00:45:36 ◼   ► like we could, there are gonna be a lot of people saying,

00:45:37 ◼   ► "Is this the mythical mid range mini tower?

00:45:40 ◼   ► "Is this the X Mac?"

00:45:41 ◼   ► It's not expandable, but it is.

00:45:43 ◼   ► But it does fulfill in a lot of ways that middle ground

00:45:46 ◼   ► for people like us who don't, sorry, Steven,

00:45:49 ◼   ► don't need a Mac Pro.

00:45:51 ◼   ► I mean, they're fun, but don't like need the performance

00:45:53 ◼   ► that a Mac Pro brings,

00:45:56 ◼   ► but are also not gonna be satisfied professionally

00:46:00 ◼   ► or personally with an M1, just an M1 iMac or something.

00:46:04 ◼   ► And so I think it's a fascinating new Mac in a new spot.

00:46:09 ◼   ► And I think it's kind of pulling out some of this stuff

00:46:13 ◼   ► that Apple has tried to do at the high end

00:46:15 ◼   ► of their products that probably weren't meant for it,

00:46:18 ◼   ► but it was the only way you could really get there

00:46:20 ◼   ► if you didn't wanna buy a Mac Pro.

00:46:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, it is so interesting too

00:46:25 ◼   ► that Apple, they've left the, I mean, they said it,

00:46:28 ◼   ► but they also left the door open for the Mac Pro

00:46:31 ◼   ► with the pricing of the Mac Studio, right?

00:46:33 ◼   ► This in a way frees up the Mac Pro to be six grand.

00:46:38 ◼   ► - Well, my iMac Pro cost five grand

00:46:39 ◼   ► and it was the base model, right?

00:46:41 ◼   ► So when you think about the Mac Studio starting at 2000

00:46:45 ◼   ► and it doesn't have a display, but I'm just gonna say,

00:46:49 ◼   ► don't know why I know this,

00:46:51 ◼   ► if you were to buy a Mac Studio and a Studio Display,

00:46:54 ◼   ► - One was to buy. - You can do that

00:46:56 ◼   ► for a lot less than $5,000.

00:46:58 ◼   ► A lot less.

00:46:59 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:47:00 ◼   ► And that's interesting too in the light

00:47:04 ◼   ► of the 27-inch iMac not being a thing right now.

00:47:08 ◼   ► The Intel one's gone, there's no Apple Silicon replacement.

00:47:12 ◼   ► A decent Mac Studio plus a studio display,

00:47:15 ◼   ► which I mean, Jason, could we just for a second

00:47:17 ◼   ► just enjoy they brought the name back?

00:47:19 ◼   ► A very historic name.

00:47:21 ◼   ► - Can you give some context, please?

00:47:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, absolutely.

00:47:24 ◼   ► is what is the like Apple Studio Display which one was that one? Yeah so it was it

00:47:28 ◼   ► was a name that lived on many displays from Apple but I think the ones that

00:47:33 ◼   ► most people would be familiar with are the the very early LCD it was kind of

00:47:40 ◼   ► like a name used at the very early LCDs and the very last CRTs and so it was a

00:47:46 ◼   ► very transitional period. They eventually went to Cinema Display which is what

00:47:50 ◼   ► they stayed with up until 2013 or so but I think studio display like bringing

00:47:57 ◼   ► that name back a lot of people have fond memories of those they would like the

00:48:01 ◼   ► clear I don't have one in here like the clear acrylic feet you don't have it I

00:48:05 ◼   ► have the studio display CR put it in our discord I have one right behind me right

00:48:08 ◼   ► now yeah I have a couple of them I think they're in the attic because they didn't

00:48:13 ◼   ► work and I have room in here but it's fun and it's fun that it comes with a

00:48:17 ◼   ► Mac that's named it. You know, a lot of people have sent me the picture, like

00:48:21 ◼   ► the press photo of the G4 Cube and the studio display it came with, and yeah,

00:48:26 ◼   ► like, this is kind of reliving that a little bit, but hopefully it's not as

00:48:31 ◼   ► cursed as other small desktops have been. The G4 Cube wasn't a great machine, got

00:48:36 ◼   ► canceled after a year. Man, I was so worried, Jason, I like said something to

00:48:42 ◼   ► Myke, when they were showing like the, you know, they do like the fly around thing

00:48:47 ◼   ► of what the computer's gonna look like, and I was like, if this is another round computer...

00:48:50 ◼   ► Yeah, they did that on purpose, I think.

00:48:52 ◼   ► I'm going to cry.

00:48:53 ◼   ► Yeah, because they start by showing the circle of the bottom of the machine.

00:48:57 ◼   ► And a circular power supply, like boy, that's gonna be fun when it breaks.

00:49:01 ◼   ► But you know, so I don't think they're repeating the mistakes of the Cube or the Mac Pro here,

00:49:06 ◼   ► even though it's kind of fun to point those things out.

00:49:09 ◼   ► This seems like it's been designed with the future in mind.

00:49:13 ◼   ► 7.7 inches square 3.7 inches tall I would say when they showed the ad they did the ad

00:49:21 ◼   ► it was like dream machine ad which is really fun and they were showing as well when they

00:49:26 ◼   ► had the like it wasn't a house set I joked it was like a warehouse set that they had

00:49:30 ◼   ► of like all these different studios the machine looks physically bigger in situ than I expected

00:49:36 ◼   ► it would and I think that's I don't really know if like why I thought that but it's it's

00:49:42 ◼   ► It's not small, that's for sure, right?

00:49:46 ◼   ► It's I mean, 7.7 is the Mac Mini size, so it's the Mac Mini footprint.

00:49:51 ◼   ► It's just a lot taller because the Mac Mini is a 1.4 inch height thing and this is 3.7,

00:49:58 ◼   ► so it's more than twice the size of the Mac Mini.

00:50:02 ◼   ► If only I was somewhere where there were multiple Mac Minis that could be stacked on top of

00:50:06 ◼   ► each other.

00:50:07 ◼   ► They're over there, they're in the other room.

00:50:08 ◼   ► I can't see them from where I am.

00:50:09 ◼   ► Stack them up, two and a half.

00:50:10 ◼   ► Oh yeah, look at them over there.

00:50:12 ◼   ► So it's like those bottom three kind of.

00:50:14 ◼   ► - Okay, so I can get an accurate representation

00:50:17 ◼   ► of three Mac mini stacks on top of each other

00:50:18 ◼   ► in front of me.

00:50:19 ◼   ► It's quite a big machine, Jason.

00:50:20 ◼   ► Not gonna lie.

00:50:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's not a little thing.

00:50:23 ◼   ► And I think that goes to Steven's point about like,

00:50:26 ◼   ► this has been engineered for this kind of level

00:50:28 ◼   ► of performance, right?

00:50:28 ◼   ► And the fact that it's running the M1 Ultra,

00:50:33 ◼   ► like whatever heat is going on there,

00:50:34 ◼   ► and I know these don't run as hot

00:50:36 ◼   ► and they don't use as much power

00:50:37 ◼   ► 'cause it's Apple Silicon, but still,

00:50:40 ◼   ► They've built this thing so that you can keep it cool.

00:50:44 ◼   ► And they have the little holes

00:50:45 ◼   ► and they show the little person going into the holes

00:50:48 ◼   ► in the video and all of that.

00:50:49 ◼   ► But also the, I think the implication at the end there

00:50:52 ◼   ► is that she wakes up just before she's gonna be killed

00:50:55 ◼   ► by the blades of the fan. - Yes, she's falling

00:50:56 ◼   ► into the fan, she's going to die and then she wakes up.

00:50:59 ◼   ► Because that's what wakes you up from a dream

00:51:00 ◼   ► when you're about to die.

00:51:01 ◼   ► - And is it nice that they're getting more use

00:51:02 ◼   ► out of that home set too?

00:51:04 ◼   ► - It's a different one.

00:51:05 ◼   ► That was a different one.

00:51:06 ◼   ► It was much bigger.

00:51:07 ◼   ► - I don't know, it felt to me like it was the same set

00:51:09 ◼   ► but they redressed it to make it more studio like.

00:51:13 ◼   ► - I also don't think a lot of it was real.

00:51:15 ◼   ► The machine's thermal stuff looks interesting, right?

00:51:19 ◼   ► So it looks like air gets brought into the bottom

00:51:21 ◼   ► because the bottom is raised

00:51:22 ◼   ► and it passes through the machine.

00:51:23 ◼   ► They have these two big fans going on.

00:51:26 ◼   ► They call it an innovative thermal system.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Then there were 200 tiny holes on the back

00:51:30 ◼   ► where the air is exhausted.

00:51:32 ◼   ► If we take out to the back, we've got a lot of IO.

00:51:34 ◼   ► One thing I was surprised about, there is no MagSafe here,

00:51:37 ◼   ► not even the MagSafe on the iMac.

00:51:39 ◼   ► It's just a standard power like adapter that plugs into the back.

00:51:42 ◼   ► With an internal power supply so you don't have a brick.

00:51:45 ◼   ► Yep.

00:51:46 ◼   ► Which again is not a big deal on the desktop I think as you all spoken about.

00:51:48 ◼   ► That's fine.

00:51:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:49 ◼   ► But it being internal is just a little bit nicer.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Yep.

00:51:52 ◼   ► You know.

00:51:53 ◼   ► And they can keep it cooler that way because it's actually part of the cooling

00:51:55 ◼   ► system.

00:51:56 ◼   ► The air flows over the power supply, which I'm sure actually helps a lot.

00:51:59 ◼   ► Uh, but the amount of IO on this machine is wild.

00:52:03 ◼   ► So we have four Thunderbolt 4 ports on the back.

00:52:06 ◼   ► This is one of the back.

00:52:07 ◼   ► 10 gigabit ethernet, two USB-A, which I'm sure you're very happy about, Jason, we were

00:52:11 ◼   ► talking about that, HDMI and a Pro Audio jack, which is an audio jack with support for the

00:52:17 ◼   ► high impedance headphones. Then on the front, which I love that they put IO on the front,

00:52:23 ◼   ► if you have the M1 Max, you get two USB-C ports. If you have the M1 Ultra, you get two

00:52:29 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 4 ports and an SD card slot. I love that. You put IO on the front of the

00:52:35 ◼   ► machine. It shows that you are aware that people have temporary use, you know? Like,

00:52:41 ◼   ► "Oh, I just need to pull something off this. Oh, I just need to plug this in for a

00:52:44 ◼   ► minute so I can charge my iPhone or plug it in for a minute so I can pull

00:52:48 ◼   ► pictures from my iPhone." Having those I/O on the front, that really shows me, it's a

00:52:53 ◼   ► simple thing, but it shows me this idea of like, we actually thought about this

00:52:57 ◼   ► machine and how it will get used. I love that. The name "Studio" actually means

00:53:01 ◼   ► something. I should be clear because the way you phrased it was kind of unclear.

00:53:04 ◼   ► There's an SD card slot regardless of what chip is in it.

00:53:07 ◼   ► The SD card slot is there.

00:53:08 ◼   ► It's just a question of whether it's USB-C or Thunderbolt on the front.

00:53:11 ◼   ► Yeah, very good.

00:53:13 ◼   ► It can support tons of monitors, right?

00:53:15 ◼   ► Like if you've got all the Thunderbolt 4 ports and a HDMI.

00:53:18 ◼   ► I think they said like four displays and a TV it can do.

00:53:23 ◼   ► Should we talk about some of the performance statistics of this machine?

00:53:26 ◼   ► Again, I don't, I mean they all just kind of pour like out and roll over me and I'm

00:53:32 ◼   ► like okay it's huge like right I mean because it's everything we knew about

00:53:38 ◼   ► the m1 max and then there's also the m1 ultra so it is you expand your mind

00:53:44 ◼   ► about what a Mac can do because that's basically what this thing is it's gonna

00:53:48 ◼   ► smoke my 12 core Mac Pro massively and oh yeah and some of the specific

00:53:54 ◼   ► benchmarks they were comparing to like the 28 core Mac Pro and they did some of

00:53:59 ◼   ► with the with the MacBook Pros in the fall when they introduced the M1 Macs

00:54:03 ◼   ► for the first time but the M1 Ultra course basically doubles all of it and

00:54:08 ◼   ► yeah I mean if you have any Intel Mac this machine is going to be as fast or

00:54:15 ◼   ► faster than it in anything and again like there's headroom open for the

00:54:20 ◼   ► future but having this amount of performance even at the the base model

00:54:26 ◼   ► at two grand is impressive. Yeah so like just you know really they compared it to

00:54:33 ◼   ► they didn't show any comparisons to other M1 machines because I don't really

00:54:38 ◼   ► think that that was worth it but they did show comparisons to the iMac 27 inch

00:54:43 ◼   ► iMac which is basically the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro and it was just like you

00:54:48 ◼   ► know multiple times faster than the iMac in every way and it's like between 50

00:54:54 ◼   ► 90% faster depending on the statistic that you're looking at to the Mac Pro on

00:54:58 ◼   ► both CPU and GPU. Like that performance stuff is just unbelievable with up to

00:55:05 ◼   ► 128 gigs of memory on the Ultra and 8 terabytes SSD you can put in that thing.

00:55:10 ◼   ► On either one. Yeah we didn't really mention this in detail but basically the

00:55:16 ◼   ► M1 Ultra doubles everything about the Macs and so it's twice the memory

00:55:20 ◼   ► capacity everything's basically twice as fast it's very linear just like the m1 to

00:55:25 ◼   ► m1 Pro was as well but you know it does get it does get pricey like we said you

00:55:32 ◼   ► are gonna pay for that m1 max I mean if you if you go to the order page you can

00:55:36 ◼   ► play with it of course but going from an m1 Pro to an m1 ultra is at least a

00:55:44 ◼   ► thousand dollars depending on where you're going from 12 to 1400 basically

00:55:50 ◼   ► And then if you go all the way to the big one, it adds $2,400 to the price.

00:55:53 ◼   ► So the chips are pricey, but if that's what you need and that's what you've been

00:55:58 ◼   ► waiting for, then I mean, even like a pretty loaded,

00:56:02 ◼   ► I'm just setting all the buttons now, which is a fun game, a fully loaded M1

00:56:07 ◼   ► studio, uh, excuse me,

00:56:08 ◼   ► fully loaded Mac studio is going to be about eight grand US. So yeah,

00:56:13 ◼   ► that's Mac Pro money,

00:56:15 ◼   ► but it's also going to be shockingly faster than the Mac Pro

00:56:20 ◼   ► ever could be because of this this architecture change. The full on Mac

00:56:24 ◼   ► studio maxes out at eight grand by the way with the ultra? Yeah. That's as high

00:56:29 ◼   ► as you can get it to. Yeah. Is that what you said? Yeah. I thought you said the

00:56:32 ◼   ► max. No sorry I meant I meant ultra. Okay. These names are confusing. Yeah. We will remember

00:56:37 ◼   ► extreme because we have to say it that way every time but yes. It could be worse

00:56:41 ◼   ► they could have called this the Mac Max or M1 Pro Max as the chip name would

00:56:46 ◼   ► have been miserable but right and then you end up with like an m1 studio Mac

00:56:51 ◼   ► studio with the m1 max is the it's there's a lot of name stuff going on but

00:56:56 ◼   ► we'll get used to it like I got used to saying MacBook so yeah we'll figure it

00:56:59 ◼   ► out so we teased it for long enough you know Steven a second ago I think it was

00:57:04 ◼   ► a viewer Jason your voice is just mixing in my brain right now people that are

00:57:08 ◼   ► waiting for these types of machines I feel like I'm on a podcast of two people

00:57:13 ◼   ► who have been waiting for this kind of machine.

00:57:17 ◼   ► Jason, did you buy one of these?

00:57:21 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:57:22 ◼   ► - Okay, do you wanna tell me about that?

00:57:24 ◼   ► - In the gap between the event ending

00:57:27 ◼   ► and us starting this podcast, I bought the base,

00:57:30 ◼   ► just like the iMac Pro, I bought the base model,

00:57:33 ◼   ► except I upgraded to two terabytes of internal storage

00:57:37 ◼   ► because I have one on my iMac Pro

00:57:39 ◼   ► and I decided it might be nice

00:57:41 ◼   ► to have a little bit more than that

00:57:42 ◼   ► because every now and then I feel like I need to clear some

00:57:46 ◼   ► stuff out in order to,

00:57:48 ◼   ► so I'm going to spend a little more on that,

00:57:49 ◼   ► but otherwise it's the base model.

00:57:50 ◼   ► - So yours is 10 core CPU, 24 core GPU.

00:57:54 ◼   ► That's cause you can, you can spec.

00:57:55 ◼   ► - My GPU needs are not enormous, right?

00:57:57 ◼   ► Like I'm never like, oh man,

00:57:59 ◼   ► I need to pay for some more GPU.

00:58:01 ◼   ► I really like the,

00:58:02 ◼   ► a lot of the stuff I do is really more processor bound

00:58:06 ◼   ► in terms of audio plugins and stuff like that.

00:58:08 ◼   ► So, and I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna,

00:58:11 ◼   ► I'm not gonna spend for an M1 Ultra.

00:58:15 ◼   ► Like I said, I feel like that is for people

00:58:16 ◼   ► who are way beyond my needs.

00:58:18 ◼   ► I don't need to go there.

00:58:20 ◼   ► But I did, like, because again, you can cancel the order

00:58:23 ◼   ► and if you don't get in immediately,

00:58:25 ◼   ► are they gonna push it back and say

00:58:27 ◼   ► that we're not gonna be able to ship it

00:58:29 ◼   ► for another two months or something like that.

00:58:30 ◼   ► So, but yeah, that's the plan.

00:58:33 ◼   ► I've got an order in, put down my Apple card and said,

00:58:36 ◼   ► "Give me that computer, I want it."

00:58:38 ◼   ► - 3% cash back, right?

00:58:40 ◼   ► Is that what you got, 3%?

00:58:41 ◼   ► - Well, yeah.

00:58:42 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, it says on the order form, it says,

00:58:45 ◼   ► you have an Apple card on file with us,

00:58:48 ◼   ► and if you use it, you will save this amount of money.

00:58:51 ◼   ► It's like it's integrated into the checkout page.

00:58:54 ◼   ► - All right, we get it.

00:58:56 ◼   ► I will come back to your decision in a minute, Jason.

00:58:58 ◼   ► I wanna ask Steven too, if you ordered one of these?

00:59:01 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:59:02 ◼   ► - What did you order?

00:59:03 ◼   ► - I also ordered the M1 Max.

00:59:05 ◼   ► - Okay, neither of you pushed that big button.

00:59:07 ◼   ► - No, I did.

00:59:09 ◼   ► - Are you even for science?

00:59:10 ◼   ► - Not even for science.

00:59:11 ◼   ► I did 64 gigabytes of unified memory.

00:59:13 ◼   ► And I have, unlike Jason who has a home server,

00:59:18 ◼   ► I don't have that anymore on my,

00:59:19 ◼   ► I've been really used to having all my data on my machine.

00:59:21 ◼   ► I don't want to go back.

00:59:23 ◼   ► So I did push the big button for the eight terabyte SSD.

00:59:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:59:27 ◼   ► So my machine is five grand.

00:59:29 ◼   ► It's the cost of the base level.

00:59:31 ◼   ► - Hello.

00:59:32 ◼   ► - iMac Pro was, or, you know,

00:59:34 ◼   ► pretty close to the base Mac Pro.

00:59:36 ◼   ► - If you ever heard of those things, what are they called?

00:59:38 ◼   ► - Oh, external SSDs.

00:59:40 ◼   ► - I'm still gonna need those.

00:59:41 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:59:42 ◼   ► - I'm sitting here thinking that just not two minutes ago,

00:59:45 ◼   ► I had to try to justify to you

00:59:48 ◼   ► that I was gonna splurge on two terabytes of storage.

00:59:53 ◼   ► - I felt like there was no justification needed, Jason,

00:59:55 ◼   ► 'cause I always go to two terabytes too.

00:59:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, years ago, I just gave up on the home server idea

01:00:00 ◼   ► and my dataset is like five terabytes or something.

01:00:05 ◼   ► So that is what it is.

01:00:08 ◼   ► But yeah, and I'm gonna use it with the Pro Display

01:00:11 ◼   ► I already have, so it will just take place of the Mac Pro.

01:00:14 ◼   ► And if anyone's interested in a really nice 2019 Mac Pro,

01:00:18 ◼   ► please send me an email.

01:00:19 ◼   ► - Life comes at you fast, life comes at you fast.

01:00:22 ◼   ► Like we didn't know this computer existed,

01:00:24 ◼   ► and I found myself buying it almost immediately

01:00:27 ◼   ► upon hearing about its existence.

01:00:29 ◼   ► It was, that's quite a whirlwind.

01:00:32 ◼   ► 'Cause I had to, you know, we talk about it theoretically.

01:00:34 ◼   ► We're like, oh yeah, you know, what will you do

01:00:37 ◼   ► if they do this and that,

01:00:38 ◼   ► which we didn't even discuss this scenario really,

01:00:40 ◼   ► but like a Pro Mac Mini and an external display,

01:00:44 ◼   ► what would you do?

01:00:44 ◼   ► - Nobody knew about this until the weekend, right?

01:00:46 ◼   ► Like this is when,

01:00:47 ◼   ► but Hats off to 9to5Mac by the way,

01:00:49 ◼   ► they called both of these incredible reporting over there

01:00:52 ◼   ► that they managed to get this.

01:00:54 ◼   ► This wasn't in my mind. - And Germin had a lot

01:00:55 ◼   ► of these details, but didn't have the like,

01:00:57 ◼   ► had a lot of the details out there,

01:00:58 ◼   ► but didn't have the specific kind of,

01:01:00 ◼   ► this is what this product is.

01:01:02 ◼   ► - What this machine is not is the next Mac Mini.

01:01:04 ◼   ► It's not that.

01:01:05 ◼   ► Like it is much, much more than that.

01:01:08 ◼   ► - Is this his half-height Mac Pro?

01:01:09 ◼   ► I don't know, maybe it is, maybe it's not.

01:01:11 ◼   ► - I think this is Mark Gurman's smaller Mac Pro.

01:01:14 ◼   ► I think that's 100% what this is.

01:01:17 ◼   ► I mean, if you heard everything except the name, right?

01:01:22 ◼   ► You would go, "Oh, that's a small Mac Pro."

01:01:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it was interesting when they introduced it,

01:01:27 ◼   ► they mentioned modularity,

01:01:28 ◼   ► and that is different from upgradability.

01:01:31 ◼   ► This thing doesn't have any slots.

01:01:33 ◼   ► Again, maybe that's room for the Mac Pro in the future,

01:01:35 ◼   ► but it's not, it's got an SD card slot.

01:01:38 ◼   ► - It's got an SD card slot, but you know what I mean.

01:01:39 ◼   ► It has--

01:01:40 ◼   ► - It's a slot.

01:01:41 ◼   ► - It's exactly a card slot, Jason.

01:01:42 ◼   ► - Is it not a slot?

01:01:43 ◼   ► - Come on, put a card in it.

01:01:45 ◼   ► - It doesn't, I hate both of you.

01:01:46 ◼   ► - If you think it isn't a slot, well, you're wrong.

01:01:48 ◼   ► - It doesn't have an internal expansion, right?

01:01:50 ◼   ► You're not putting more drives inside of this.

01:01:52 ◼   ► It's a sealed box like everything else.

01:01:55 ◼   ► - That's why you gotta get the eight terabyte big boy.

01:01:57 ◼   ► - Someone's gonna do it.

01:01:58 ◼   ► - That's right.

01:01:59 ◼   ► Even since you guys know me feel bad,

01:02:00 ◼   ► I'm screen sharing to my Mac Pro,

01:02:02 ◼   ► like looking at my folder sizes.

01:02:04 ◼   ► like could I squeeze it down to four and not very comfortably so I would do look

01:02:09 ◼   ► live your best life that's right but my question is I just don't think you need

01:02:13 ◼   ► that amount of stuff inside the machine like accessible all times but look hey

01:02:17 ◼   ► live your best life my friend sorry you know do it this machine for me I'm very

01:02:25 ◼   ► intrigued by I have not ordered one I am I love my m1 Mac iMac very much but my

01:02:31 ◼   ► My plan was always, I spoke about this right, with both of you, to do, you know, like, "Oh,

01:02:37 ◼   ► I'll go to the next Pro Mac that's not a Mac Pro because I don't need a Mac Pro," right?

01:02:43 ◼   ► That's probably this machine might be the only option.

01:02:45 ◼   ► We'll jump ahead a little bit.

01:02:47 ◼   ► Like John Turner said at the end, "We have one more to go and it's the Mac Pro, but that's

01:02:51 ◼   ► for another day."

01:02:53 ◼   ► And we're going to talk in our next segment about the other product that got announced

01:03:00 ◼   ► here, right?

01:03:01 ◼   ► I think it's worth saying now in the context

01:03:04 ◼   ► of the Mac studio, that for, depending on your lifestyle

01:03:08 ◼   ► and what you wanna do, especially if you've already bought

01:03:12 ◼   ► a MacBook Pro with a Pro or Mac's chip,

01:03:15 ◼   ► there are gonna be a lot of people leading

01:03:19 ◼   ► the external monitor at my desk kind of life.

01:03:21 ◼   ► And the fact is, the performance is great over there.

01:03:24 ◼   ► It really is.

01:03:26 ◼   ► And you could make that argument of like,

01:03:28 ◼   ► well, why even get a Mac studio at the low end?

01:03:30 ◼   ► why not just get a MacBook Pro and then you can unhook it and take it with you.

01:03:35 ◼   ► And for some people that's gonna be a perfectly good argument to make.

01:03:39 ◼   ► But some of us are sort of like desktop users and want to have that powerful desktop.

01:03:45 ◼   ► And this one fits the bill for me.

01:03:47 ◼   ► And this was the thought that like I would get, you know, now I would live that to...

01:03:51 ◼   ► I'm living a two-computer life now and I would continue to do that and I would have the iMac

01:03:55 ◼   ► Pro and the MacBook Pro.

01:03:57 ◼   ► I feel like I'm in a bit of a loss now because I'm not really sure what's going on, but this

01:04:01 ◼   ► machine looks really really cool and really exciting.

01:04:04 ◼   ► I just haven't sat down and looked at it and really thought about it because I'm getting

01:04:09 ◼   ► on great with my M1 iMac.

01:04:10 ◼   ► We're having a fun time.

01:04:12 ◼   ► Maybe for me this wouldn't be a decision I would make until after experiencing the studio

01:04:18 ◼   ► display because I actually think that that's important for me to work out what my future

01:04:23 ◼   ► is going to be like.

01:04:24 ◼   ► How well does the studio display integrate into my setup?

01:04:27 ◼   ► Maybe I bought one of those, we'll talk about it in a bit.

01:04:30 ◼   ► But it is fascinating and I am really really intrigued.

01:04:35 ◼   ► We've got a few weeks to go right until these things start arriving.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Is it March 18th is when they start arriving?

01:04:41 ◼   ► Is that correct?

01:04:42 ◼   ► Yes, that's right.

01:04:43 ◼   ► A week from Friday.

01:04:44 ◼   ► So it's going to, I mean, maybe this is famous last words.

01:04:47 ◼   ► I don't imagine myself putting an order on one of these before like people start getting

01:04:52 ◼   ► them and reviewing them.

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01:06:59 ◼   ► Studio display time.

01:07:00 ◼   ► I can't believe it.

01:07:01 ◼   ► I can't believe it.

01:07:02 ◼   ► I didn't pick it in the draft specifically because I've been beaten down.

01:07:06 ◼   ► I always wanted it for like a year and it never ever happens and here it is it happened.

01:07:12 ◼   ► This is the thing I wanted the most, you know, like of especially when we thought we might be

01:07:17 ◼   ► going into because this is the, you know, I've spoken about it before the place I have the most

01:07:20 ◼   ► frustration in my life is with the LG display that I have which just doesn't work the way that I want

01:07:25 ◼   ► and Apple delivered here and I had so many like I was on a rollercoaster ride Jason because it was

01:07:31 ◼   ► It was like, oh, here's the monitor.

01:07:33 ◼   ► This is the monitor that I want.

01:07:34 ◼   ► Oh no, there's no adjustable stand.

01:07:36 ◼   ► Yeah, there's an adjustable stand,

01:07:37 ◼   ► but how much is it gonna cost?

01:07:39 ◼   ► Like it was like, I was having a real ride

01:07:41 ◼   ► and this is what I bought.

01:07:42 ◼   ► I bought one of these.

01:07:44 ◼   ► - Oh. - Yeah.

01:07:45 ◼   ► - It's $400 for the adjustable stand, by the way, $400.

01:07:48 ◼   ► - That's cheaper than I thought it was gonna be though.

01:07:50 ◼   ► - It's not the, it may actually be the Pro Stand.

01:07:53 ◼   ► I guess someone will take it apart and look,

01:07:54 ◼   ► but it's not the cost of the Pro Stand, which is nice.

01:07:58 ◼   ► So I bought the studio display standard glass

01:08:01 ◼   ► with the tilt and height adjustable stand.

01:08:04 ◼   ► So it wasn't cheap and it's gonna come sometime

01:08:07 ◼   ► in early April, I think for me.

01:08:09 ◼   ► - Well, I bought the piece of mount,

01:08:12 ◼   ► you'll be shocked to know.

01:08:13 ◼   ► - No way, Horace, shock horror.

01:08:16 ◼   ► - And it looks like unlike your iMac Pro,

01:08:20 ◼   ► this is a make your decision at time of purchase type thing.

01:08:25 ◼   ► - Oh really?

01:08:26 ◼   ► - I mean, looking at pictures,

01:08:27 ◼   ► You know, this is day one, so maybe we're not sure yet,

01:08:30 ◼   ► but it seems like you're not changing

01:08:33 ◼   ► between these in the future.

01:08:35 ◼   ► - Right, okay.

01:08:36 ◼   ► They're like pretty fixed.

01:08:38 ◼   ► - It looks like looking at the pictures

01:08:40 ◼   ► and looking at Apple's language,

01:08:41 ◼   ► you pick your stand type

01:08:43 ◼   ► and that is your stand type forevermore.

01:08:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean like the images on Apple's,

01:08:47 ◼   ► like on the buying page,

01:08:48 ◼   ► you can scroll through the three of them

01:08:50 ◼   ► and you're right, that doesn't look like

01:08:52 ◼   ► there's somewhere to say, mount the VESA arm,

01:08:55 ◼   ► like the mount that you need,

01:08:56 ◼   ► it looks like that that is just on that model

01:08:59 ◼   ► that you're buying.

01:09:00 ◼   ► And so maybe like I'm not getting mine until early April

01:09:03 ◼   ► because they don't have as many with the stand on them.

01:09:07 ◼   ► But this is what I want.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Like, you know, for me, I didn't want to buy this monitor

01:09:12 ◼   ► and then put it on another riser again.

01:09:14 ◼   ► Like what I wanted was something

01:09:15 ◼   ► that I could have free adjustment over

01:09:17 ◼   ► 'cause that's really important to me.

01:09:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the Pro Stand is with these features,

01:09:20 ◼   ► again, not quite sure if this is the same hardware,

01:09:23 ◼   ► the features are really nice.

01:09:24 ◼   ► I mean, you've sat at my desk this week.

01:09:27 ◼   ► You can move the Pro Display all around.

01:09:29 ◼   ► And it's nice and smooth.

01:09:32 ◼   ► People can.

01:09:33 ◼   ► I would just say, just a bit of behind the scenes,

01:09:35 ◼   ► I sat down at Steven's desk a little bit earlier on, Jason.

01:09:39 ◼   ► He was like, oh, why don't you come--

01:09:40 ◼   ► instead of sitting on this small desk

01:09:41 ◼   ► that we set up to record, why don't you come and sit

01:09:43 ◼   ► on my desk?

01:09:44 ◼   ► It'll be more comfortable.

01:09:45 ◼   ► So I brought my laptop over.

01:09:46 ◼   ► He said, don't touch the display.

01:09:48 ◼   ► That's what he said to me.

01:09:49 ◼   ► He said, you can't use the display.

01:09:50 ◼   ► You have to look at your laptop.

01:09:51 ◼   ► Well, you know, the cable's routed over to the Mac Pro.

01:09:54 ◼   ► - It would have been so hard.

01:09:55 ◼   ► It would have been so difficult to do.

01:09:56 ◼   ► - It would have been so hard.

01:09:57 ◼   ► - Jason, what did you get for the studio display?

01:09:59 ◼   ► - Base model, base amount, that was it.

01:10:04 ◼   ► - Base face.

01:10:05 ◼   ► - Base face.

01:10:06 ◼   ► - Base face.

01:10:07 ◼   ► - Ace of face.

01:10:08 ◼   ► - I gave it, yeah, shiny face, not the nano texture.

01:10:10 ◼   ► I don't need that.

01:10:11 ◼   ► - Not now.

01:10:12 ◼   ► - And base amount, because I mean, I anticipate,

01:10:15 ◼   ► I didn't look at the tech specs,

01:10:16 ◼   ► but I anticipated it'll be lighter than an iMac Pro.

01:10:19 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:10:20 ◼   ► - And yeah, that's definitely what I want.

01:10:22 ◼   ► I did confirm by the way, this is literally the same panel

01:10:26 ◼   ► that Apple has used in the 5K iMac for all of these years.

01:10:30 ◼   ► That's what this is.

01:10:31 ◼   ► It is what everybody asked for,

01:10:33 ◼   ► which is a standalone display of the 5K monitor

01:10:37 ◼   ► that was in the iMac and iMac Pro.

01:10:40 ◼   ► So that's great.

01:10:43 ◼   ► - Let me give some speeds and feeds.

01:10:44 ◼   ► - With an A13 for fun.

01:10:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, 27 inches, 5K retina,

01:10:48 ◼   ► 600 nits of brightness, P3 color, true tone.

01:10:50 ◼   ► all the things that you expect from a 27-inch iMac,

01:10:54 ◼   ► which, rest in peace, is in this display.

01:10:57 ◼   ► - And then it also has an A13 Bionic in it.

01:11:01 ◼   ► Now, when they were talking about this in the presentation,

01:11:04 ◼   ► they went on to talk about the 12 megapixel ultra-wide

01:11:06 ◼   ► or center stage and the mics and then the speakers.

01:11:09 ◼   ► It didn't make sense to me why the A13 Bionic

01:11:12 ◼   ► was needed for these things.

01:11:13 ◼   ► Do either of you have an idea on this?

01:11:15 ◼   ► - I do know this, actually.

01:11:17 ◼   ► So it's two things.

01:11:18 ◼   ► It's center stage and it's processing the audio

01:11:21 ◼   ► for spatial audio.

01:11:23 ◼   ► It's doing both of those tasks.

01:11:25 ◼   ► And if you're asking yourself,

01:11:27 ◼   ► why not just let the Mac do it?

01:11:31 ◼   ► These things are actually compatible with Intel Macs.

01:11:34 ◼   ► And so they're offloading all of that kind of stuff

01:11:37 ◼   ► to the A13 on the display instead.

01:11:39 ◼   ► - That's really smart.

01:11:40 ◼   ► And I guess as well, going into the future,

01:11:42 ◼   ► it gives them a bit of flexibility to do,

01:11:44 ◼   ► there might be some other fun stuff

01:11:46 ◼   ► that they might wanna do, you know?

01:11:47 ◼   ► I don't know what, but. - Could be.

01:11:48 ◼   ► - Because what this doesn't have is Face ID.

01:11:51 ◼   ► Disappointed?

01:11:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, I, yeah, it,

01:11:58 ◼   ► I don't know if I've seen the evidence of Apple's desire

01:12:02 ◼   ► to put Face ID on a Mac.

01:12:06 ◼   ► - No.

01:12:07 ◼   ► I mean, look, I'm disappointed,

01:12:08 ◼   ► but I wasn't expecting it, if that makes sense.

01:12:10 ◼   ► Like I would love it to have been there,

01:12:11 ◼   ► but I didn't think it was going to be.

01:12:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree.

01:12:16 ◼   ► three USB-C ports on the monitor and then a Thunderbolt port for connecting to

01:12:21 ◼   ► a Mac. And this delivers 96 Watts of power.

01:12:24 ◼   ► So I would be able to plug in my 14 inch MacBook pro.

01:12:27 ◼   ► It would pull in everything and I guess pass over any IO through the Thunderbolt

01:12:31 ◼   ► cable. I expect how that's supposed to work and then also keep it powered.

01:12:34 ◼   ► This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm so happy.

01:12:39 ◼   ► It's kind of reminiscent of the old Thunderbolt display.

01:12:42 ◼   ► Now that had an ethernet on it too,

01:12:44 ◼   ► because you can adapt USB-C to basically anything.

01:12:46 ◼   ► But yeah, the one cable lifestyle,

01:12:49 ◼   ► it actually will fast charge your 14-inch MacBook Pro,

01:12:52 ◼   ► and it will keep up with the 16, as with that 96 watt,

01:12:56 ◼   ► that's the rating for the 16-inch MacBook Pro.

01:13:00 ◼   ► So yeah, if you're the type of user,

01:13:01 ◼   ► and a lot of people are, right?

01:13:02 ◼   ► A lot of people, especially back in the day,

01:13:05 ◼   ► you know, notebook plus display,

01:13:07 ◼   ► and that's one reason Apple's lack of a display

01:13:11 ◼   ► is still expensive, right?

01:13:12 ◼   ► This is not a $500 Dell that, you know,

01:13:14 ◼   ► Casey bought a couple of,

01:13:16 ◼   ► but it's not a Pro Display XDR price tag either.

01:13:20 ◼   ► - No, I mean, I, maybe it's just that Apple has, again,

01:13:24 ◼   ► sort of like tormented us so long,

01:13:27 ◼   ► but this is less than I thought

01:13:28 ◼   ► that they were going to charge us.

01:13:29 ◼   ► They were linking through all the features,

01:13:31 ◼   ► listing all those features, like,

01:13:33 ◼   ► oh, and it's got center stage and it charges.

01:13:36 ◼   ► It's got all these ports and all that.

01:13:37 ◼   ► And I'm like, oh man, this is going to be a $2,000 display.

01:13:40 ◼   ► Isn't it?

01:13:41 ◼   ► And it's not, I mean, it's not cheap,

01:13:44 ◼   ► but none of us expected an Apple standalone display

01:13:49 ◼   ► to be price competitive with displays

01:13:52 ◼   ► from other manufacturers.

01:13:53 ◼   ► None of us really believe that, right?

01:13:55 ◼   ► That's not the game Apple plays.

01:13:56 ◼   ► It's gonna be more expensive,

01:13:57 ◼   ► but it's gonna be the Apple one.

01:13:59 ◼   ► And we've learned, if anything,

01:14:01 ◼   ► Apple has taught us in the last five years

01:14:04 ◼   ► or longer, 10 years, is what's the world like

01:14:08 ◼   ► when you don't get the Apple display

01:14:10 ◼   ► or you can't get the Apple display.

01:14:12 ◼   ► And what's that worth to you, buddy?

01:14:15 ◼   ► This is the answer, but it's less than I feared it would be.

01:14:19 ◼   ► And I put my money down for it, so there you go.

01:14:23 ◼   ► - This isn't a problem by any stretch,

01:14:25 ◼   ► but I was gonna text to text page,

01:14:26 ◼   ► and the Thunderbolt port is Thunderbolt 3,

01:14:28 ◼   ► which is funny, 'cause they seem to put 4

01:14:31 ◼   ► on everything now, right?

01:14:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, there's not really a difference

01:14:34 ◼   ► in bandwidth between 3 and 4, I don't think.

01:14:36 ◼   ► - Okay, so what's the difference then?

01:14:38 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 4, I believe, we talked about this

01:14:42 ◼   ► on Connected at some point, trying to remember the details,

01:14:44 ◼   ► but it is the one that sort of collapses USB

01:14:46 ◼   ► and Thunderbolt into one spec.

01:14:49 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:14:50 ◼   ► - But my guess is, even if there is a difference,

01:14:52 ◼   ► and it may be, the chat room may be correcting me,

01:14:55 ◼   ► using Thunderbolt 3 does what Jason said,

01:14:57 ◼   ► it gets you backwards compatibility

01:14:59 ◼   ► with Thunderbolt 3 Intel Macs.

01:15:01 ◼   ► So you can run this with a 2016 MacBook Pro,

01:15:04 ◼   ► or an iMac from 2017, the iMac Pro,

01:15:07 ◼   ► any Mac with Thunderbolt 3,

01:15:09 ◼   ► and my guess is that that was important to them,

01:15:13 ◼   ► that they wanted to be able to support

01:15:15 ◼   ► a pretty wide range of machine,

01:15:17 ◼   ► and so Thunderbolt 3 gives them that,

01:15:19 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 4 doesn't really give them

01:15:21 ◼   ► anything they need past that,

01:15:23 ◼   ► so I don't view that as a spec of like,

01:15:27 ◼   ► oh, that's weird, they did something old.

01:15:29 ◼   ► I think it gives them a nice range of benefits

01:15:32 ◼   ► for people who are holding onto those Intel machines

01:15:36 ◼   ► for some reason.

01:15:37 ◼   ► and want an external display.

01:15:39 ◼   ► Why not serve that group too?

01:15:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, that makes sense.

01:15:42 ◼   ► And I'm just, I'm so happy

01:15:45 ◼   ► that they're back into this business.

01:15:46 ◼   ► Like, I'm just really happy.

01:15:47 ◼   ► You know, and I'm not one of these people who are like,

01:15:51 ◼   ► "Oh, I can't look at this OG," you know,

01:15:53 ◼   ► like I'm not like that.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Like, it's not a designer thing for me.

01:15:56 ◼   ► It purely has been like, my functionality experience

01:16:00 ◼   ► of external displays and docs and stuff

01:16:02 ◼   ► has just been really poor.

01:16:03 ◼   ► And I just, I naturally expect that I will be able

01:16:08 ◼   ► to get a much better experience out of an Apple made monitor

01:16:13 ◼   ► because this is what it's for.

01:16:14 ◼   ► And breaking news, we have some real time follow up

01:16:18 ◼   ► from the king of cables himself, Federico Vittucci.

01:16:21 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 4 provides 100 watt charging on a single cable

01:16:24 ◼   ► plus 8K single monitor.

01:16:26 ◼   ► That's one of the things that it does that three doesn't.

01:16:28 ◼   ► - So it does have some extended ability

01:16:31 ◼   ► but nothing they need for this.

01:16:32 ◼   ► - Yes, because not in the only diva of those features,

01:16:35 ◼   ► but I guess that's why it,

01:16:38 ◼   ► does the 16 do fast charging at all?

01:16:41 ◼   ► - I think if you get that giant, giant charger.

01:16:44 ◼   ► - So that's probably why they said it fast charges the 14.

01:16:46 ◼   ► - Right. - 'Cause that's not enough

01:16:47 ◼   ► power to the 16. - 'Cause it's essentially

01:16:49 ◼   ► providing the power that the smaller brick provides,

01:16:52 ◼   ► not the one that the giant brick,

01:16:54 ◼   ► that's just in the 16 inch.

01:16:56 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:16:57 ◼   ► - But otherwise, oh, by the way,

01:16:58 ◼   ► you can plug an iPad into it too.

01:17:01 ◼   ► - Woo!

01:17:02 ◼   ► - Oh wow, okay.

01:17:04 ◼   ► - That is a useful thing. - 'Cause that's a useful thing.

01:17:05 ◼   ► - Yeah. (laughs)

01:17:07 ◼   ► - You can plug an iPad into it for the poor experience

01:17:10 ◼   ► that you will be wanting to accept.

01:17:13 ◼   ► - From that.

01:17:14 ◼   ► Well, maybe someday they will do a software update

01:17:17 ◼   ► that enables a better experience

01:17:19 ◼   ► now that they have an external display.

01:17:21 ◼   ► But for now, you can plug it in for the bad experience.

01:17:24 ◼   ► You can get that if you want.

01:17:26 ◼   ► - I think it's really interesting

01:17:28 ◼   ► the design language they chose for this,

01:17:30 ◼   ► because it's basically the 24-inch iMac without the chin,

01:17:35 ◼   ► but from the front, it really looks like a Pro Display.

01:17:37 ◼   ► Like they've kind of walked the line

01:17:39 ◼   ► between looking related to both of those products.

01:17:43 ◼   ► And, you know, it fits in line

01:17:44 ◼   ► with Apple's modern design language of flat sides,

01:17:48 ◼   ► you know, tight corners.

01:17:49 ◼   ► I think it looks really nice.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Kind of wish it was available in more colors,

01:17:54 ◼   ► but that is what it is, I guess.

01:17:56 ◼   ► But from the front, if you didn't know,

01:17:59 ◼   ► you may think it's a Pro Display

01:18:01 ◼   ► 'cause it's got those thin black bezels

01:18:03 ◼   ► and the squared off look.

01:18:04 ◼   ► - I love it.

01:18:06 ◼   ► I love that they've got the,

01:18:07 ◼   ► and it's got those two looks, right?

01:18:09 ◼   ► Depending on the stand that you go for.

01:18:11 ◼   ► You can either make it look like an iMac

01:18:12 ◼   ► or make it look like a Pro Display,

01:18:14 ◼   ► which is kind of funny really.

01:18:15 ◼   ► - And the truth is it's, you know,

01:18:18 ◼   ► we're so focused today, I mean, maybe Myke isn't,

01:18:20 ◼   ► but on the fact that it's coming out with a Mac Studio.

01:18:23 ◼   ► So you've got the studio display on the Mac Studio

01:18:25 ◼   ► and everybody's talking about it.

01:18:26 ◼   ► but like, not only is this for older Intel Macs,

01:18:30 ◼   ► it's for MacBook Air and for the M1 Mac Mini.

01:18:35 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:18:36 ◼   ► - And like, I mean, it is for everything.

01:18:39 ◼   ► - It's everything.

01:18:40 ◼   ► Yeah, like I'm excited about the Mac Studio,

01:18:43 ◼   ► but I need to think more about it.

01:18:44 ◼   ► Like I want this computer,

01:18:46 ◼   ► but I don't know if it's the right one for me.

01:18:48 ◼   ► Like I feel like this is something

01:18:50 ◼   ► I really need to get my head around.

01:18:51 ◼   ► But as I said, like the studio display is like,

01:18:53 ◼   ► this is exactly for me.

01:18:55 ◼   ► Like this is what I want.

01:18:56 ◼   ► I put everything in it that I wanted.

01:18:58 ◼   ► - In your studio.

01:19:00 ◼   ► - In Mega Studio, it's gonna be the Apple Studio.

01:19:02 ◼   ► Is it called the, it's called the Apple Studio Display,

01:19:04 ◼   ► right, that's the full name?

01:19:05 ◼   ► - Right.

01:19:06 ◼   ► - Apple Studio Display in Mega Studio, I'm very excited.

01:19:09 ◼   ► Do you, either of you have any more thoughts

01:19:11 ◼   ► on the studio display?

01:19:11 ◼   ► 'Cause I wanna come back to addressing

01:19:13 ◼   ► what Jon Turner said at the end.

01:19:15 ◼   ► - I think my closing statement on the display is just like,

01:19:18 ◼   ► it's about time.

01:19:20 ◼   ► We've talked about this for so long,

01:19:22 ◼   ► and I kinda feel today the same sense of relief I felt

01:19:25 ◼   ► they replaced the butterfly keyboard it's like we had this ongoing complaint

01:19:30 ◼   ► legitimate complaint about Apple's product strategy with the Mac and now

01:19:36 ◼   ► like this was the last low-hanging fruit in my mind like I can't really think

01:19:41 ◼   ► sitting here today like what's the the big thing that's wrong with with the

01:19:48 ◼   ► lineup and I really can't put my finger at anything yeah because we're still in

01:19:52 ◼   ► this transition there's still more to come we're gonna go with that in a

01:19:54 ◼   ► second but this was such a gaping hole for so long you know it seems like

01:20:00 ◼   ► they've really got this right the prices is like we said it's expensive but it's

01:20:05 ◼   ► what you were gonna get from Apple maybe let maybe even cheaper what we were

01:20:08 ◼   ► thinking so I'm really impressed I don't have space for this I don't have need

01:20:12 ◼   ► for this but I know there are tons of people who do and I think people are

01:20:16 ◼   ► really gonna be excited to to ditch that you know that LG 5k they bought in 2017

01:20:22 ◼   ► with something like this. Yeah, and for me, I, you know, I just

01:20:28 ◼   ► wanted to mention the stands again cuz I care about this stuff and I love that

01:20:33 ◼   ► there's a VESA mount, but we knew we were gonna have that, but it's also no extra

01:20:36 ◼   ► and that they've got the standard stand that looks like a limac foot for the

01:20:41 ◼   ► standard price and then they've got this, you know, $400 tilt stand and I'm sure

01:20:49 ◼   ► they're gonna get grief because they always are now after that Pro Display XDR stand was

01:20:55 ◼   ► $1,000 for selling a $400 stand and I wish that it was cheaper obviously but at the same

01:21:02 ◼   ► time I'm glad that they didn't make it standard and have the whole price of the thing be higher.

01:21:07 ◼   ► I'm glad that it's an option and you know really because we talked about this with the

01:21:14 ◼   ► 24-inch iMac I'm just really glad that they made it so that people who want more adjustability

01:21:19 ◼   ► have access to it without having to do something like

01:21:22 ◼   ► a VESA mount on a VESA stand that is adjustable.

01:21:26 ◼   ► 'Cause the fact is, for a lot of people,

01:21:28 ◼   ► depending on their ergonomics,

01:21:29 ◼   ► depending on how tall they are,

01:21:31 ◼   ► or where their desk is or whatever,

01:21:33 ◼   ► the standard fixed height of like an iMac

01:21:38 ◼   ► isn't a good height,

01:21:39 ◼   ► or it isn't a good height in certain circumstances.

01:21:41 ◼   ► And so I'm glad that they built this option

01:21:46 ◼   ► to have that sort of tilt adjustment stand for people,

01:21:50 ◼   ► even though it is pricey, I'm glad it exists

01:21:54 ◼   ► 'cause they could have just not done it.

01:21:56 ◼   ► And even though we could say, well, yeah,

01:21:58 ◼   ► but it should just be standard at that price.

01:22:00 ◼   ► I'm like, well, yeah, okay, maybe,

01:22:02 ◼   ► but they chose not to do it that way.

01:22:04 ◼   ► And I can understand it's probably engineered,

01:22:07 ◼   ► maybe not like the XDR stand,

01:22:08 ◼   ► but it's probably engineered really well.

01:22:11 ◼   ► And one of those things where they spared no expense on it.

01:22:14 ◼   ► And so that's why it costs what it does,

01:22:16 ◼   ► but I'm just so happy that it exists

01:22:18 ◼   ► 'cause I know there are a lot of people out there

01:22:19 ◼   ► who complain about, you get this beautiful iMac or display

01:22:24 ◼   ► and then you have to put it on a dictionary or something

01:22:27 ◼   ► and that's not great.

01:22:28 ◼   ► - I think the biggest difference for me,

01:22:30 ◼   ► like yeah, I agree, there's always gonna be people like,

01:22:32 ◼   ► oh, this stands this now.

01:22:34 ◼   ► But the difference being with this monitor over the XDR,

01:22:39 ◼   ► with the XDR, you had to choose one of them,

01:22:43 ◼   ► either the stand or the VESA and it was always more money.

01:22:46 ◼   ► Right, like the $1,000 stand was the only stand

01:22:50 ◼   ► you could put the monitor on, right?

01:22:52 ◼   ► So it's like you're kind of out of luck.

01:22:53 ◼   ► But with this one, well you get the regular stand

01:22:55 ◼   ► and then if you wanna go extra, go extra, that's up to you.

01:22:58 ◼   ► But with the Pro Display XDR,

01:22:59 ◼   ► it's like well you could just balance it I guess, right?

01:23:01 ◼   ► Like what was John Syracuse saying about like

01:23:04 ◼   ► getting a child to hold it for you?

01:23:06 ◼   ► I think I remember that, WBC.

01:23:08 ◼   ► So yeah, I'm really excited about this.

01:23:10 ◼   ► This was the thing that's got me the mug pump right now

01:23:13 ◼   ► because it's really solving something.

01:23:15 ◼   ► Jason and I have been asking the upgradeers

01:23:18 ◼   ► some Ask Upgrade questions, and they've got lots of them,

01:23:21 ◼   ► so should we get to a few?

01:23:22 ◼   ► Yeah, let's do it.

01:23:24 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:23:26 ◼   ► And this first one from Peter addresses what I wanted to talk about

01:23:30 ◼   ► with what Jon Turner mentioned at the end.

01:23:32 ◼   ► Peter says, "Do you think the iMac Pro name will ever be used again?"

01:23:36 ◼   ► [sighs]

01:23:37 ◼   ► So, as a recap, real quick,

01:23:41 ◼   ► like John Turner said, one more to go Mac Pro

01:23:44 ◼   ► that's for another day.

01:23:45 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:23:46 ◼   ► So Steven just posted something on 512 pixels

01:23:49 ◼   ► where he's like, ah, it'll ride again.

01:23:54 ◼   ► And my feeling is the exact opposite,

01:23:56 ◼   ► which is I think there will be a 27 inch iMac at some point.

01:24:00 ◼   ► But I think the days of the iMac being pushed up

01:24:03 ◼   ► with high spec stuff for more prosumer kind of users

01:24:07 ◼   ► are probably over for a while.

01:24:10 ◼   ► if you never say never,

01:24:11 ◼   ► but I feel like what the Mac studio is saying

01:24:14 ◼   ► and what the studio display is saying is Apple's gonna,

01:24:18 ◼   ► Apple has, like we said earlier,

01:24:20 ◼   ► found this place where the consumer Macs are over here

01:24:23 ◼   ► and the Mac Pro is over here.

01:24:24 ◼   ► And instead of us complaining that the Mac Pro

01:24:26 ◼   ► is too high-end and the consumer Macs are, you know,

01:24:30 ◼   ► over kind of like being pushed out of what they're for

01:24:33 ◼   ► in order to fulfill the desires of people

01:24:35 ◼   ► who want a little bit more,

01:24:37 ◼   ► that the Mac studio exists now.

01:24:38 ◼   ► So that's my gut feeling is that there will not ever

01:24:42 ◼   ► be an iMac Pro again, but that there,

01:24:45 ◼   ► I think there will be a 27 inch iMac at some point,

01:24:48 ◼   ► probably like using an M2,

01:24:50 ◼   ► but it's just gonna be a bigger version of the 24.

01:24:53 ◼   ► It's not gonna be pushed where it's got Pro chips in it

01:24:56 ◼   ► or Macs chips in it or ultra chips in it.

01:24:59 ◼   ► It's gonna be just a bigger of the base iMac

01:25:03 ◼   ► and it can go back to being that.

01:25:06 ◼   ► And I do, you know, there'll be rumors.

01:25:10 ◼   ► I will just say, I don't believe that we have,

01:25:13 ◼   ► we've seen the last of the bigger iMac.

01:25:15 ◼   ► I know that it's end of life and it's over for now,

01:25:18 ◼   ► but I, you know, you know how at the end of a concert,

01:25:22 ◼   ► everybody cheers and then the people come back on stage

01:25:25 ◼   ► for the encore and like everybody knows

01:25:27 ◼   ► that's gonna happen.

01:25:28 ◼   ► I kind of feel like that's what's happening

01:25:29 ◼   ► with the 27 inch iMac is they're probably

01:25:32 ◼   ► already working on it, but next year they're gonna be like,

01:25:34 ◼   ► you know, we heard that people loved it

01:25:36 ◼   ► and so we decided to bring it back.

01:25:38 ◼   ► It's like, you already decided, I bet, I bet.

01:25:41 ◼   ► But I don't think iMac Pro,

01:25:42 ◼   ► I don't think deforming the iMac product line

01:25:47 ◼   ► in order to stick a pro model in it.

01:25:50 ◼   ► I think the Mac studio's existence

01:25:52 ◼   ► means they won't ever do that again.

01:25:54 ◼   ► - So let me offer my counterpoint.

01:25:56 ◼   ► - Please do.

01:25:59 ◼   ► - The outgoing Intel 27 inch iMacs,

01:26:03 ◼   ► The starting prices range from $1,800 to $2,300,

01:26:07 ◼   ► depending on the CPU you got.

01:26:09 ◼   ► The cheapest MacStudio Studio Display combination

01:26:14 ◼   ► is $3,600 before you buy $200 with the keyboards and mice.

01:26:19 ◼   ► Of course, you could put a Mac Mini next to a Studio Display

01:26:24 ◼   ► but the Mac Mini isn't running in the same circles

01:26:26 ◼   ► as the old high-end iMac and this new MacStudio machine,

01:26:30 ◼   ► right, 'cause it's just the M1.

01:26:31 ◼   ► Now, the Intel Mac Mini is still for sale,

01:26:33 ◼   ► maybe there is an M1 Pro Mac Mini coming

01:26:36 ◼   ► at some point in the future, we did not see that today.

01:26:38 ◼   ► But I think that as it stands right now,

01:26:42 ◼   ► Apple may want people to go buy a Mac Studio

01:26:45 ◼   ► and a Studio Display to replace an old 27-inch iMac,

01:26:49 ◼   ► but you're spending possibly a good bit more to do that.

01:26:54 ◼   ► - Yeah. - And I think that's,

01:26:56 ◼   ► we were talking earlier a second ago

01:26:59 ◼   ► about holes in the lineup,

01:27:00 ◼   ► Maybe this is one beginning to form, but it's just, it's, it's feels a little bit strange

01:27:07 ◼   ► not to have that, that machine around.

01:27:11 ◼   ► And the reason I think the iMac Pro name in particular could come back, which I didn't

01:27:15 ◼   ► think months ago and I've changed my mind on it, and I feel even more so about it today,

01:27:20 ◼   ► is let the iMac be the consumer desktop, right?

01:27:23 ◼   ► It comes in colors, that's its history, right?

01:27:25 ◼   ► I mean, there's an orange one like three feet away from mic right now.

01:27:28 ◼   ► it's that fun consumer machine. An iMac Pro could come in at a higher

01:27:34 ◼   ► price and kind of fill the space above it and like making the iMac brand almost

01:27:39 ◼   ► more pure, not stretching it. And so I think we will see something. I think the

01:27:46 ◼   ► iMac Pro name will come back. It's just a matter of when. And that's why I

01:27:52 ◼   ► found Ternus's line so interesting like yeah he answered the question what will

01:27:59 ◼   ► happen to the Mac Pro because Myke when we were sitting on my couch watching and

01:28:01 ◼   ► I asked you I was like well what does this mean for the Mac Pro Ternus

01:28:04 ◼   ► answered that well the Mac Pro is coming you know that has like slogan of the

01:28:09 ◼   ► decade for Mac users like the new Mac Pro is coming yeah but but even that

01:28:15 ◼   ► doesn't really fill the hole that the big iMac leaves behind and so I think

01:28:21 ◼   ► I think we'll see something, and I think them saying,

01:28:24 ◼   ► you know, that's the last one to make the transition,

01:28:27 ◼   ► that doesn't close the door on a big iMac.

01:28:28 ◼   ► I think it may be a bit more interesting

01:28:32 ◼   ► than that in the future.

01:28:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, I see what you're saying.

01:28:35 ◼   ► I guess you think,

01:28:37 ◼   ► you are thinking more about Apple's benevolence than I am.

01:28:42 ◼   ► I think-- - I'm in a good mood, man.

01:28:44 ◼   ► We got a cube-shaped computer.

01:28:46 ◼   ► - I know, I sort of, I mean, sort of.

01:28:48 ◼   ► - Smoosh cube.

01:28:48 ◼   ► - I think it's more likely that what Apple's gonna say is,

01:28:53 ◼   ► look, Apple Silicon is so powerful

01:28:55 ◼   ► that for most people's uses,

01:28:56 ◼   ► all you really need is to get an iMac or a Mac mini

01:29:00 ◼   ► or a laptop and MacBook Air even, and you'll be fine.

01:29:04 ◼   ► And if you want that screen,

01:29:06 ◼   ► you can get the external display or you can buy,

01:29:09 ◼   ► maybe down the road, a 27 inch iMac,

01:29:12 ◼   ► but it's just gonna be an M2 or something like that,

01:29:14 ◼   ► which is just an M2, like it's pretty good.

01:29:16 ◼   ► And then somebody will say,

01:29:18 ◼   ► this is the reverse of the whole X Mac argument,

01:29:21 ◼   ► which is somebody will say, but what if I want more?

01:29:25 ◼   ► And Apple will say, that's what you buy,

01:29:27 ◼   ► Mac studio, external monitor.

01:29:31 ◼   ► If you want more, that's it.

01:29:33 ◼   ► And yes, there's a little bit of a hole there,

01:29:36 ◼   ► but I think that is Apple saying,

01:29:38 ◼   ► we're not gonna make,

01:29:42 ◼   ► we're not gonna repurpose our consumer products

01:29:44 ◼   ► for a high-end model in order to fulfill that,

01:29:47 ◼   ► we built a product for you.

01:29:48 ◼   ► And that's, and it costs what it costs.

01:29:51 ◼   ► And the good news is that when you come,

01:29:53 ◼   ► we come out with a new one in two years,

01:29:54 ◼   ► you won't have to replace your monitor.

01:29:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I guess we'll find out, right?

01:29:57 ◼   ► I mean, Germin has said he expects another wave of max

01:30:01 ◼   ► in the May, June timeframe.

01:30:03 ◼   ► So either before or at WWDC.

01:30:05 ◼   ► - Mark Germin has been so all over the place

01:30:08 ◼   ► with the big one.

01:30:09 ◼   ► He doesn't know about it.

01:30:10 ◼   ► I mean, we've been talking about this for weeks.

01:30:12 ◼   ► he seems to have been a little bit trying to read tea leaves on that one.

01:30:17 ◼   ► That adds to me my feeling. So I think the iMac pro is gone.

01:30:22 ◼   ► I think, you know, we spoke about this, so I got to so many times,

01:30:26 ◼   ► the iMac pro is from an alternate timeline and now that space has been occupied

01:30:31 ◼   ► by the Mac studio. It is the professional computer for most people, right?

01:30:36 ◼   ► The high end computer for most people.

01:30:38 ◼   ► Yeah, but that leaves people out who just want a big iMac, who don't care that it had

01:30:44 ◼   ► a Xeon in it or whatever.

01:30:45 ◼   ► So I think that's, I think it doesn't leave them out because I do think that there will

01:30:49 ◼   ► be a 27-inch iMac at some point, but it's not gonna be a pro-level thing.

01:30:52 ◼   ► It's gonna be like an M2, and that'll be what it is, and you'll get 24 or 27.

01:30:57 ◼   ► I could even see that there isn't gonna be another big iMac.

01:31:00 ◼   ► It's just like they have, on computer it's called iMac.

01:31:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:31:03 ◼   ► It's wild, right?

01:31:04 ◼   ► Can you imagine going back like two years and be like,

01:31:07 ◼   ► "There's gonna be intense debate

01:31:09 ◼   ► "about the future of the iMac."

01:31:10 ◼   ► It's like, "But that's the bread and butter.

01:31:12 ◼   ► "Like that's the flagship."

01:31:15 ◼   ► And here we are.

01:31:17 ◼   ► But Apple has these opportunities in these transitions

01:31:21 ◼   ► to redefine what these machines are.

01:31:24 ◼   ► And that's what we've seen today.

01:31:25 ◼   ► We've seen them take a form factor they flirted with

01:31:28 ◼   ► over the last 20 years with the Cube and the trashcan

01:31:31 ◼   ► and say, "Hey, we're gonna make something new

01:31:33 ◼   ► that sits on your desk, that's really powerful and quiet.

01:31:36 ◼   ► And maybe they're doing that in these other areas as well.

01:31:39 ◼   ► It's fun to be able to debate it and to talk about it

01:31:44 ◼   ► because when's the last time there was any debate

01:31:47 ◼   ► about what the iMac was or should be?

01:31:49 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:31:50 ◼   ► No, this goes back, I mean, I said this earlier,

01:31:52 ◼   ► but this goes back to the iMac getting redefined

01:31:55 ◼   ► as the computer that was not just for consumers,

01:31:58 ◼   ► but was for people at the fairly high end,

01:32:01 ◼   ► but not so high end that they bought a Mac Pro.

01:32:04 ◼   ► And that happened gradually, but it did happen.

01:32:07 ◼   ► And I feel like this is maybe Apple going back a little bit

01:32:11 ◼   ► and redefining it again and saying,

01:32:13 ◼   ► "No, we're not gonna do that this time with the iMac.

01:32:16 ◼   ► We're not going to make it have this range

01:32:19 ◼   ► like we did with Intel processors,

01:32:21 ◼   ► where we could get you something that was fairly low end

01:32:23 ◼   ► and we can get you something that's pretty high end

01:32:25 ◼   ► and they're all jammed in the same enclosure

01:32:27 ◼   ► with the same cooling system."

01:32:28 ◼   ► And they're like, "No, we're not gonna do that."

01:32:30 ◼   ► And so in terms of that, you mentioned that event

01:32:33 ◼   ► that may be coming up that Mark Gurman talked about,

01:32:36 ◼   ► it does feel like this was the wrap on the M1, right?

01:32:41 ◼   ► This is the last new M1 chip.

01:32:44 ◼   ► - Yeah. - That's absolutely the case.

01:32:47 ◼   ► So, you know, that MacBook Air rumor is out there

01:32:51 ◼   ► and there was the MacBook Pro rumor.

01:32:52 ◼   ► There's a bunch of M2 laptop rumors out there.

01:32:55 ◼   ► And I don't know whether that'll be in May or June

01:32:58 ◼   ► or whether it'll be later in the summer

01:32:59 ◼   ► in the fall or whatever, but like, it feels to me

01:33:02 ◼   ► like the next Mac announcement is going to be,

01:33:04 ◼   ► now here's the M2.

01:33:05 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:33:08 ◼   ► You know, and I just, and sitting here thinking about it,

01:33:10 ◼   ► you know, maybe we've all sliced the bread too thinly.

01:33:12 ◼   ► Is that a phrase?

01:33:14 ◼   ► - I have absolutely no idea what that means.

01:33:16 ◼   ► - Maybe we've parsed his comment too closely.

01:33:19 ◼   ► You know, maybe Apple does view the big and small iMac

01:33:22 ◼   ► as kind of the same machine, same family machine.

01:33:25 ◼   ► So it's like, yeah, the Mac Pro's left.

01:33:27 ◼   ► Where I did the iMac, it's like, don't pay attention.

01:33:29 ◼   ► - Well, and officially the 27-inch iMac

01:33:31 ◼   ► is end of life today, right?