396: The 2022 March Event Draft


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:22   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 396.

00:00:26   Today's show is brought to you by TextExpander, Unipizza Ovens, ZocDoc, and Memberful.

00:00:32   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by the one and only Jason Snell.

00:00:35   Hi Jason Snell.

00:00:36   Hi Myke Hurley, was that draft music I heard?

00:00:40   That was indeed.

00:00:41   That can't be.

00:00:42   Draft music.

00:00:43   That can't be.

00:00:44   Jason it can be.

00:00:45   Here's the deal, alright?

00:00:48   We're going rogue today.

00:00:50   We are.

00:00:51   We are assuming there will be an Apple event next week.

00:00:56   So the assumption has been for a while there will be one in March.

00:00:59   The Sheriff of Rua Town, Mark Gorman, has been suggesting for multiple weeks that it

00:01:06   is going to be March 8th.

00:01:08   Here's the thing.

00:01:10   I am traveling later this week going to Memphis.

00:01:15   The concern we have right now, or the concern I had, that if there is an event announced

00:01:22   sometime in the next 24 hours, which is what we would expect if it's going to be on March 8th.

00:01:26   Right. We would struggle to find a time to record a draft episode. So, we're gonna draft today.

00:01:35   I've been pushing this for a little while with these weak warning events and us doing the double

00:01:41   episodes with the draft as an emergency episode to say if we feel pretty good that an event is

00:01:48   gonna happen, even if it's not exactly when we think. I'm not sure I see the harm in doing

00:01:56   the draft, and if the draft has to remain in kind of a hovering above us for an extra

00:02:02   week or two, that's okay. In fact, it might be good because it might mean that more stuff

00:02:08   will leak out, and it will be too bad for us because we will have already picked. And

00:02:13   I think the draft is better when there's more uncertainty.

00:02:18   If we draft when we know everything, then it's what is it that we're even doing here.

00:02:23   So I've been thinking maybe we should try this and then events have led us to this point

00:02:30   now.

00:02:31   So, kind of here's where we are.

00:02:33   We're going to make our draft today and if there's an event next week, great.

00:02:38   If there isn't an event, as Jason said, if there's an event in two weeks, also fine.

00:02:43   If the event ends up being in April, we're gonna kind of play it as it goes. Like one

00:02:49   thing that I had potentially thought that we could do is maybe like the week before

00:02:53   we get to change one pick, you know, we'll see.

00:02:56   That would be a maybe a fun game we could do if it comes to that. But we, I think, although

00:03:01   Mark Gurman, who is definitely leading a cattle out onto the Ponderosa in Rumour Roundup,

00:03:11   I think he keeps saying probably, but he doesn't know.

00:03:15   Like probably March 8th, but he doesn't know.

00:03:18   So maybe not.

00:03:19   And maybe he can't know.

00:03:21   We're definitely seeing the limits

00:03:22   of Mark Gurman's information.

00:03:24   So we're gonna go under the assumption

00:03:27   that there's gonna be an Apple announcement

00:03:28   coming pretty soon.

00:03:30   And this is our draft for that.

00:03:32   - Now, of course, one of the things that could stop

00:03:34   maybe an event that was planned going ahead

00:03:37   is the current war going on in Ukraine,

00:03:39   which of course, you know, we'll just take a quick pause

00:03:42   to say that everybody here at Upgrade

00:03:45   throws their wholehearted support

00:03:47   behind the people of Ukraine

00:03:49   for the situation that they're going through right now.

00:03:51   And it's an atrocious situation

00:03:53   that they have found themselves in

00:03:55   and we continue to support them.

00:03:58   - A lot of Mac developers, actually.

00:03:59   - Yes, a lot of wonderful Mac developers.

00:04:00   - Mac and iOS developers we know,

00:04:02   including Redl and MacPaw, among others,

00:04:05   that are actually from Ukraine.

00:04:08   So we send all of our positive thoughts

00:04:11   to the people of Ukraine, especially the people we know.

00:04:14   - I have a #snowtalk question for you.

00:04:17   Comes from WotC, who wants to know?

00:04:19   So this is me just, I'm just like straight up assuming

00:04:23   that this is the normal episode.

00:04:25   Jason, do you make any changes to your regular morning

00:04:29   routine in preparation for remote Apple event days,

00:04:33   or do you treat it the same as any other day?

00:04:36   I treated, this is what a terrible answer this is.

00:04:39   I treated the same as any other day, really.

00:04:41   It's not the case for in-person Apple events,

00:04:44   but for remote Apple events,

00:04:45   I can just treat it like any other day

00:04:47   'cause the events are at 10 a.m. Pacific.

00:04:49   - Which is great for you, isn't it?

00:04:51   - Like I'm up at 9 a.m. Pacific doing upgrade, right?

00:04:54   Like, so it's just kinda luxurious

00:04:58   'cause I have to get up early and drive far

00:05:01   to go to an Apple event in Cupertino.

00:05:03   but when it's happening in my living room on my TV,

00:05:07   it's, I don't have to vary my morning routine at all,

00:05:11   which is delightful.

00:05:12   That said, I kind of miss the in-person events,

00:05:16   but it is, after having done them for so long,

00:05:19   it's a luxury to just continue doing my own thing

00:05:23   in my house.

00:05:24   - I also really want there to be an Apple event next week

00:05:27   because then me and Steven will be able

00:05:29   to watch it together.

00:05:30   - Which will be fun.

00:05:31   - And it will be in the morning,

00:05:33   which is just never a thing I experience.

00:05:35   - And I'm kind of assuming that I could just

00:05:38   break this news right here, breaking news,

00:05:40   upgrade 397 to have special guest co-host

00:05:43   Stephen Hackett appearing.

00:05:45   - Yeah, 'cause I probably will record it in his studio.

00:05:50   - It would be really mean of us to like,

00:05:51   to get out, Hackett out, out.

00:05:55   - Get out. - No upgrade for you.

00:05:56   - Or you can sit in the corner and just listen to me.

00:05:59   You have to imagine the other half of the conversation.

00:06:02   - Silence.

00:06:03   - So yeah, no matter what the episode is next week,

00:06:06   Steven will be joining.

00:06:07   - Yeah.

00:06:08   - And of course, if there is an event,

00:06:10   we will be recording after the event.

00:06:12   - Right, of course.

00:06:14   Of course, so if an event is announced this week,

00:06:18   then you can listen to Upgrade on Tuesday,

00:06:20   we'll record it right after the event.

00:06:23   - If you would like to send in a question of your own

00:06:24   to help us open a show,

00:06:25   just send out a tweet with the hashtag Snow Talk,

00:06:27   use question mark Snow Talk in the Relay FM members Discord.

00:06:30   Now I have the rules of the draft.

00:06:33   - Okay.

00:06:34   - Little bit bigger this time than usual.

00:06:37   - We had some stuff.

00:06:39   I don't know, I think our rules are fairly simple

00:06:40   compared to other rules that could be invented.

00:06:43   - Simple rules, but they have grown a little bit this time

00:06:45   for good reason.

00:06:46   10 rounds, 20 overall picks, with an additional bonus round.

00:06:51   The draft will be split into four categories.

00:06:55   There will be four iPhone and iPad picks, four Mac picks,

00:07:00   two other picks, and the return of the draft of the color czar. This will be a bonus round,

00:07:06   and we will explain the overly complicated rules of the draft of the color czar a little later on

00:07:12   in today's episode. -In short, it's worth a point. The winner gets a point, yeah. -But it's not as

00:07:18   simple as it seems. The winner of the previous draft gets the first pick, and that is Jason

00:07:22   Snell. Items are chosen from a predetermined list of choices, which we have agreed are verifiable

00:07:29   on screen, which we have agreed must be verifiable on screen.

00:07:33   There we go. I got it.

00:07:34   Third time's a charm and not ridiculously obvious.

00:07:37   For an item to count, it must be either clearly announced on stage

00:07:41   or on a slide during the presentation verifiable from the keynote itself.

00:07:46   Stephen Hackett will adjudicate in case of a scoring stalemate

00:07:50   between Jason and Myke.

00:07:52   There are no partial points awarded.

00:07:54   The points awarded on the episode are final and are finalized

00:07:57   during the scoring segment.

00:08:00   This will make me smile every time I read that forever.

00:08:02   In the case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question.

00:08:05   The loser gets the pick of the tiebreaker kind of over/under.

00:08:10   The winner of the previous draft gets to choose the time duration

00:08:14   because we will be tiebreaking on event runtime.

00:08:17   And a new addition is the winner becomes draft champion

00:08:21   and displays the champion pennant in the champion configuration.

00:08:25   Loser becomes draft challenger and displays the upgrade draft challenger

00:08:29   dependent in the challenger position. It's very important. We now have physical,

00:08:34   we're going to move some atoms, people. We're actually going to move a physical object based

00:08:39   on who wins or who loses. The draft results of last year was Jason was the 2021 champion,

00:08:44   and I have some historic statistics for you now. Oh, I love it. There have been too much events in

00:08:50   in draft history. Jason has won both of these in 2018 and 2019. There has only ever been

00:08:57   one other pre-WWDC event and that was in April 2021, which Myke won. Isn't that what, it

00:09:05   was a wild statistic to me that in the five, six years that we've been doing this, I think

00:09:10   it's six years actually, there have only been three pre-WWDC events.

00:09:14   - Yeah, we were taking a walk with our dog yesterday

00:09:17   and Lauren said, "Is this one of those things

00:09:19   where they do it every year?"

00:09:21   And I said, "No, this is not.

00:09:24   It's not something you can map out like that."

00:09:27   Sometimes they do a spring event and sometimes they don't.

00:09:29   So if there is indeed an event,

00:09:34   it will be one of a handful in the last few years.

00:09:39   - It is possible there may not be an event at all.

00:09:42   I don't know what we do if that's the case.

00:09:44   Like if they just release a bunch of things

00:09:45   by press release, I don't know what we do.

00:09:47   I guess there's just no draft.

00:09:48   - This draft is entirely invalidated.

00:09:50   That's definitely not gonna happen.

00:09:51   This is totally worth your time

00:09:52   to listen to this draft everybody.

00:09:53   - I mean, this is worth it no matter what.

00:09:55   'Cause this is it, look, you know, this is our predictions

00:09:58   episode, wherever they have been a lot,

00:09:59   there are still things to predict.

00:10:01   Tiebreaker will be based on the event runtime.

00:10:04   Jason, what is the amount of minutes

00:10:06   that I get to pick the over under on?

00:10:08   - That's a tough one.

00:10:11   So we got some rumors, got some strong,

00:10:14   it's all a little murky, some strong iPhone rumors,

00:10:17   some strong iPad rumors, some shaky Mac rumors,

00:10:21   some strong Mac rumors.

00:10:24   - A good thing from Zach in the Discord here.

00:10:27   Zach, by the way, who is the creator of upgrade.cards,

00:10:30   which is where you can go to get your interactive scorecard

00:10:33   so you can score along during any event

00:10:35   that we have here on the upgrade program.

00:10:39   Zach said that the April event of last year

00:10:42   was 61 minutes long.

00:10:44   - Interesting.

00:10:44   That's an interesting data point.

00:10:46   And I was going to point at that and say,

00:10:48   I think they have shorter events and that this will be one.

00:10:51   And that is why I am going to just follow

00:10:57   the last year's event and say,

00:10:59   Myke, is it longer or shorter than last year's 61 minutes?

00:11:02   - Under 61 minutes.

00:11:04   - Okay.

00:11:05   - Honestly, Jason, my feeling is,

00:11:07   I was going to say under basically whatever you chose.

00:11:10   - Yeah.

00:11:10   - Because I just can't imagine this being a long event.

00:11:14   - Well, I don't know.

00:11:15   I almost picked 48.

00:11:16   - And then I wouldn't,

00:11:18   I maybe wouldn't have answered so quickly.

00:11:21   - Yeah, maybe, maybe not, but we'll see.

00:11:23   I mean, they can, Apple has surprised me sometimes.

00:11:25   I would love them to be efficient and be,

00:11:28   and be under an hour, but we'll see.

00:11:34   If, maybe my picks will bear out my feelings on this,

00:11:37   we'll find out.

00:11:38   If they have announced what I think they're going to announce

00:11:41   I do not think that this will run over an hour.

00:11:43   - Well, that's the trick, isn't it?

00:11:45   I'll just have to beat you straight up.

00:11:47   - We'll see. - That's what I have to do.

00:11:48   - That's all you have to do.

00:11:49   - Can't count on the tie to save me like I did last time.

00:11:52   - This episode of Upgrade is brought to you

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00:12:28   and it's true, we do this.

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00:13:31   Our thanks to TextExpander for their support

00:13:33   of this show and Relay FM.

00:13:35   We're gonna move into the first set of picks now,

00:13:38   rounds one to four, which are the iPhone and iPad picks.

00:13:42   Jason, you're up first.

00:13:44   - All right, with the first pick in the draft,

00:13:48   I am going to take it easy

00:13:51   and pick that Apple announces a new iPhone SE.

00:13:55   Just gonna lay it there.

00:13:56   - Easy pick one.

00:13:57   This was my pick one.

00:13:58   This is just like.

00:13:59   - It's just laying there.

00:14:01   - It's honestly the only thing for me

00:14:03   that I feel is a certain of this event.

00:14:06   - This is in fact, if you follow all the reports,

00:14:09   the reason for this season.

00:14:10   This is the thing that everyone's like,

00:14:13   "Well, Apple's going to announce a new iPhone SE

00:14:15   and they may find other products to announce with it."

00:14:18   So yeah, I'm just gonna lay that down.

00:14:21   Let's get it started with the most obvious thing

00:14:23   that's on our list, the iPhone SE.

00:14:25   Yeah, there's gonna be a new one everybody, woo!

00:14:28   - I know that this is an important phone

00:14:31   to Apple and many users.

00:14:35   I'm sorry, I just need to say it now.

00:14:37   I really struggled to get excited about the iPhone SE.

00:14:40   - What do you mean?

00:14:41   I said woo, Myke, come on, woo!

00:14:42   - I can't get excited about it.

00:14:44   Unless, I mean--

00:14:45   - Developers, developers, developers, developers!

00:14:48   - Unless they do something that's like really unexpected,

00:14:52   which I don't expect, I'm sorry,

00:14:54   like I just can't get excited about a phone,

00:14:57   a new iPhone that has a touch ID home button on it,

00:15:01   you know, which is what I expect it will probably be.

00:15:04   Which is why my first pick is gonna be that the iPhone SE

00:15:08   keeps the current iPhone SE design.

00:15:11   - Oh, interesting.

00:15:13   - Now, this is one of those ones that again,

00:15:15   it might be like, we're gonna have to call it as we see it.

00:15:17   There might be some tweaks, but I think, you know,

00:15:20   if this thing has bezels and a home button

00:15:24   and all that kind of stuff,

00:15:25   like that's the iPhone SE design.

00:15:27   We'll see, right?

00:15:29   Like, I don't know what you think about this,

00:15:31   but you know, there's stuff that they might do

00:15:34   to the design of this phone,

00:15:35   but it's still by and large, looks like the iPhone SE.

00:15:38   - I think that would be really boring.

00:15:40   And you look at it and it's got like all the big bezels

00:15:42   at the top and the bottom and home button

00:15:47   with touch ID.

00:15:48   - But I think honestly,

00:15:52   one of the reasons that they keep this phone

00:15:54   is for this design,

00:15:56   because there are some people that they know as well

00:15:58   that do not want face ID.

00:16:01   And I cannot imagine Apple designing,

00:16:04   if they keep the touch ID home button,

00:16:05   which I do think they will keep,

00:16:07   I do not imagine them making a phone

00:16:10   with a new design for that.

00:16:12   - I'm gonna leave that out there

00:16:14   as a potential future pick for me.

00:16:17   But I'll tell you something the new iPhone SE

00:16:18   is gonna have Myke, 5G.

00:16:21   - 5G, 5G, 5G, 5G.

00:16:24   - Because as Tim Cook has told us,

00:16:26   we're just at the very beginnings of the global 5G rollout

00:16:29   and a lot of people are motivated to upgrade their phone

00:16:32   or motivated by their carrier to upgrade their phone

00:16:35   to get 5G support.

00:16:37   So let's throw it in there.

00:16:39   Everything gets 5G, you get 5G and you get 5G and you.

00:16:42   iPhone SE, wake up, wake up.

00:16:45   Come on, snap to it, you get 5G.

00:16:47   - Do you know what else is gonna get 5G?

00:16:49   - Oh yes, this is, I mean, we're going straight

00:16:53   to the lowest of the low hanging fruit now, aren't we?

00:16:56   - This was not gonna be my second pick,

00:16:58   but you mentioning it has made it there for me,

00:17:00   the iPad Air.

00:17:01   - Yeah, sure. - iPad Air.

00:17:03   - iPad Air, you too, get up here.

00:17:05   There's gonna be a new iPad Air apparently,

00:17:07   according to Myke's pick here, and it'll have 5G.

00:17:09   - Mm-hmm.

00:17:10   - You gotta have 5G.

00:17:11   - This is probably the next most likely product in general

00:17:16   is an iPad Air refresh, the iPad Air Jufuru refresh.

00:17:20   It's now behind the other iPads, even the regular iPad

00:17:24   and a bunch of features that we'll probably get here.

00:17:27   And you've got to expect that the iPad Air

00:17:29   is a pretty good seller for Apple, looks like an iPad Pro,

00:17:32   but isn't priced like an iPad Pro.

00:17:34   And I think it's gonna get 5G.

00:17:37   - That's good.

00:17:38   I'm gonna make, sorry to make a boring pick,

00:17:40   but it's on our list and I just want to stake out

00:17:42   the ground here.

00:17:43   iPad Air, like you say for the iPhone SE,

00:17:47   iPad Air keeps the same design.

00:17:49   They just changed it, it's got the flat sides,

00:17:51   it's the modern design, it was the first one to go,

00:17:53   why would they change it?

00:17:54   Same design.

00:17:55   - Now here's the thing, Jason,

00:17:57   there is a pic that we did not have on our list

00:17:59   because we pre-approved these pics together.

00:18:01   One of these things was, Apple announces an iPad Air.

00:18:05   - Yes.

00:18:06   - If we agree that I can pick that,

00:18:08   then the first three rounds,

00:18:10   they are exact mirror of each other.

00:18:12   - Well, you can't pick it,

00:18:14   but you already, and your pick already implies it

00:18:16   because you said it gets 5G support.

00:18:18   - Yeah, I know, but we also have Apple announces

00:18:21   a new iPhone SE as a pick, right?

00:18:24   - Yeah, but why didn't we do that for the iPad Air?

00:18:26   - I don't know, we just didn't put it in there.

00:18:28   But all right, if you're not gonna let me add it,

00:18:30   that's totally fine by me,

00:18:32   because my next pick will be-

00:18:34   - You could add it, it would be really boring

00:18:36   if you added it, but if you wanna add it in, that's fine.

00:18:38   - No, I'm gonna go in another direction

00:18:40   and I'm gonna say that--

00:18:41   - All right, well then I'll pick it next round.

00:18:43   (laughs)

00:18:44   So I'll pick it next round.

00:18:45   - You play dirty.

00:18:47   The iPad Air gets center stage.

00:18:51   - Yeah, there we go.

00:18:53   Why didn't it already have it?

00:18:54   Well, that feature hadn't been introduced yet.

00:18:57   - And this one feels to me like,

00:19:00   honestly even more certain than 5G

00:19:03   because every iPad has it now, I think.

00:19:08   if I'm remembering correctly.

00:19:09   Yeah, even the iPad mini has center stage.

00:19:11   So this is definitely a product

00:19:14   that Apple won in the iPad line.

00:19:18   We have had many conversations

00:19:19   about wanting it in other products,

00:19:21   but right now it just exists in the iPad.

00:19:24   I feel like if they touch the iPad Air,

00:19:27   they put center stage in it.

00:19:28   - Yep, I agree, 100%.

00:19:29   I think that it's even more likely than 5G,

00:19:32   and I think 5G is very, very, very likely.

00:19:35   But center stage, it has to be.

00:19:37   It's in every other iPad, why would it not be?

00:19:40   All right, Myke, well, remember when you said

00:19:41   that the iPhone SE was gonna keep the current design?

00:19:43   I think it's not.

00:19:44   - Tell me about this. - That's my next pick.

00:19:46   - What do you think?

00:19:47   - I think it's not.

00:19:49   I think we have reached the point now

00:19:52   where Apple is gonna say goodbye to that design

00:19:54   and come up with something that has,

00:19:59   maybe has face ID, but I think maybe has

00:20:05   button touch ID like on the iPad?

00:20:09   Whatever is cheaper.

00:20:12   - Can I just jump in right now and just say

00:20:15   that my final pick is that the iPhone SE has touch ID?

00:20:19   - Okay, all right.

00:20:20   Let's do it.

00:20:21   - Then we can talk more about that.

00:20:22   - Let's double this up.

00:20:23   - This is where if for me, I imagine if they do

00:20:26   change the design, they keep touch ID

00:20:29   but put it in the side button.

00:20:31   - In the button.

00:20:32   I think that's possible.

00:20:33   I, so look, your pick that the iPhone,

00:20:38   the current iPhone SE design remains

00:20:43   is banking on Tim Cook grinding more margin

00:20:48   out of a very old iPhone design.

00:20:53   And you know, it's hard to bet against that,

00:20:56   but I look at the current iPhone SE

00:20:59   and think it's so old now

00:21:04   and so out of line with the existing iPhone line

00:21:07   that I think there's a chance

00:21:11   that Apple is going to make an iPhone SE

00:21:16   that looks a little like the rest of the iPhone line

00:21:19   that they can call it edge to edge and put a notch in it,

00:21:26   but maybe it doesn't have the face ID system,

00:21:29   just simplify their product line a little bit.

00:21:33   And I realize I'm just kind of grasping here

00:21:35   because the easy thing is it's just, again,

00:21:38   it's just the same one with a little bit of an upgrade.

00:21:41   But I don't know,

00:21:42   I feel like there's enough water under the bridge now

00:21:44   that maybe they're gonna revise it

00:21:46   and use some of the stuff they've used in other phones

00:21:48   while keeping it cheap

00:21:49   and allow them to have something

00:21:51   that feels a little more like a modern iPhone.

00:21:53   And the big one is get that home button

00:21:56   off the front of the iPhone.

00:21:58   And since we've seen the touch ID

00:22:01   in the sleep wake button on the iPad,

00:22:05   I feel like maybe that's the direction they wanna go

00:22:07   if they wanna keep face ID as a premium feature.

00:22:10   So that's my just kind of out of the blue,

00:22:13   picking a little bit from what they did with the iPad Air

00:22:16   and thinking that the big black stripe at the top,

00:22:19   big black stripe with a home button at the bottom

00:22:21   feels really old that maybe they want to finally kind of put that one in the ground.

00:22:26   So I have a bunch of thoughts on this, right?

00:22:29   One is, hey, maybe the iPhone mini becomes the iPhone SE, but I don't think that would

00:22:35   be now, but I could imagine that, right?

00:22:37   Like in the future, maybe in a year or two.

00:22:40   Because when I think about that, it's like, okay, I don't believe they're going to put

00:22:44   face ID on the iPhone SE for a while because it is apparently very expensive to do so.

00:22:52   And so if they were not going to do that, or even if they were going to change the iPhone

00:22:55   SE's design at all, and let's imagine that they go edge to edge, right?

00:23:00   Or they go towards the bezels.

00:23:04   My thinking on this is it might have to give away potential designs of next iPhones more

00:23:11   based on like how they do like a camera

00:23:14   in the display kind of thing, like a hole punch.

00:23:17   - Yeah.

00:23:17   - And so like all of this stuff says to me,

00:23:18   I think that they will change this design,

00:23:21   but I could imagine it's one more round at the current one.

00:23:25   And then after that, they can start doing some new stuff.

00:23:28   - I think clearly, I mean,

00:23:29   we'll see how the rest of this draft goes,

00:23:31   but the draft may be won or lost simply on whether Apple

00:23:35   lets it ride for another round with the SE

00:23:37   or does something a little bit different.

00:23:38   And I just, I think you're probably right about Touch ID,

00:23:43   but there is part of me that says,

00:23:45   Apple has been doing Face ID for so long now.

00:23:48   And I wonder if the economy of scale of that,

00:23:54   that Face ID sensor block in fact has come down

00:23:58   to the point where instead of continuing to make these parts

00:24:03   that are like only in the SE at this point,

00:24:05   they're actually able to make a cheaper device

00:24:09   by using parts that they're using in other iPhones.

00:24:13   But then there's the touch ID button tech too.

00:24:15   - Even in that, they would put the touch ID button, I think.

00:24:18   Like I genuinely believe that part of the iPhone SE's

00:24:22   current existence is to have an iPhone that is not face ID.

00:24:26   - Yeah, in fact, the strongest argument for the iPhone SE

00:24:31   to not have face ID, I think is the iPad Air.

00:24:34   because that's a mid-level iPad.

00:24:37   And Apple is like, you don't get face ID.

00:24:41   Sorry, that's a pro kind of feature.

00:24:43   And it's a different market because the,

00:24:46   both of the iPhone lines, the regular and the pro

00:24:49   do have face ID,

00:24:50   but the SE is the thing that's down there below it.

00:24:53   So pulling it out and saying, no, no,

00:24:55   we're not gonna do that, I think is really reasonable.

00:24:58   To me, again, what motivates me most of all

00:25:02   is that home button.

00:25:03   It's like the home button, oh, it's so dated now, right?

00:25:08   And people like it and it's fine,

00:25:10   but I'm just trying to get into Apple's mind

00:25:12   and thinking about all the products

00:25:13   that they got in their product line.

00:25:14   And like, it's so dated.

00:25:16   And we know that it's been a problem,

00:25:19   like in terms of breaking it and things like that.

00:25:23   Like, I wonder if getting it out of there

00:25:26   and getting something that looks a little more modern,

00:25:28   but still has Touch ID like in the button,

00:25:30   if that might be their answer.

00:25:32   But I think your thought is also reasonable

00:25:36   because it's hard to bet against Tim Cook

00:25:38   continuing to grind with old parts

00:25:41   at a low price, high margin iPhone SE.

00:25:45   So that's, is this the year?

00:25:48   I say, maybe you say, no, we'll see.

00:25:50   - I mean, when did that last iPad come out?

00:25:53   Like I know it was last year, right?

00:25:54   I don't remember exactly when,

00:25:55   but that has a home button on it.

00:25:58   - Yeah, it's true.

00:25:59   - You know, so they haven't gotten rid of it

00:26:01   from everywhere yet.

00:26:02   - It's true.

00:26:03   - Not yet, not yet.

00:26:04   - Not yet.

00:26:05   And they love it on the Macs, right?

00:26:09   This is what it looks like on the Mac.

00:26:11   It's just that little circle.

00:26:13   Speaking of the Mac, this is where, look,

00:26:16   this is where it starts to get interesting.

00:26:18   I'm sorry, iPhone and iPad, you're not for us right now.

00:26:23   That might be the fastest draft round of all time

00:26:28   for four picks.

00:26:29   - We're gonna move into our Mac picks now.

00:26:31   There are enough of four.

00:26:32   I would just note, I make my own personal list, right?

00:26:36   I had like six or seven things on my iPhone and iPad list.

00:26:41   I have 15 that I have made for my Mac picks here,

00:26:45   even though we're only going for four each.

00:26:47   What is your first?

00:26:49   - I only have seven, so you're more confident than I am.

00:26:51   I'm gonna start with a product, the Mac,

00:26:53   that I do think is going to be announced for sure

00:26:56   at this event, which is a new 13-inch MacBook Pro

00:26:59   of some sort.

00:27:00   - Okay.

00:27:01   - That's my first MacBook, new 13-inch MacBook Pro.

00:27:05   - We don't wanna get into that too much

00:27:06   because there are many more picks on the table

00:27:08   for this MacBook Pro in particular.

00:27:10   Mine is gonna be that a new Mac Mini is announced.

00:27:14   - All right.

00:27:15   - For my money, I think we're more likely

00:27:17   to see a Mac Mini than a new MacBook Pro.

00:27:19   - I went back and forth on this

00:27:22   and new Mac Mini is announced was also on my list.

00:27:24   it was next up, so I went back and forth with them.

00:27:27   I think I could go either way, right?

00:27:30   I think the new Mac mini seems logical

00:27:33   because they held the Intel Mac mini around,

00:27:36   even though they did an M1 Mac mini last fall,

00:27:39   or I guess fall of '20.

00:27:43   So, oh God, it's not even last fall,

00:27:44   you know, a year and a half ago.

00:27:46   And yet I feel like this,

00:27:49   even though the rumors conflict,

00:27:52   there's so much heat around the idea

00:27:54   that they're gonna revise that 13-inch MacBook Pro

00:27:56   that I feel like that gave me a little bit more of an edge.

00:27:58   Whereas the Mac Mini, I'm like,

00:27:59   well, they could announce it.

00:28:01   I don't doubt it's coming.

00:28:03   They could not announce it,

00:28:05   and I wouldn't be shocked, I guess.

00:28:07   - What I'll say is that rumors of a new Mac Mini

00:28:09   have been around for a lot longer.

00:28:11   - Oh yeah, oh yeah.

00:28:12   No, my, I don't doubt it exists.

00:28:14   I think my question is, is it now?

00:28:18   And maybe it is now.

00:28:19   I think that, like I said, it was my second choice.

00:28:21   So that's reasonable.

00:28:24   - And I'll just state just like for the record,

00:28:26   both of these products like new,

00:28:29   if Apple has something to show off, it's new, right?

00:28:32   It doesn't matter if they've just changed a part

00:28:35   here or there, it's new.

00:28:37   - Yep.

00:28:38   Okay, gonna go out on a limb here.

00:28:41   I know there've been conflicting reports.

00:28:43   I'm just gonna lay it down.

00:28:45   Bye bye touch bar, gone.

00:28:46   Touch bar gone. - Okay.

00:28:49   gone, new MacBook Pro doesn't have a touch bar.

00:28:52   - Okay.

00:28:53   - Yeah, that's it.

00:28:56   Look, if they come out with,

00:28:59   if they update the MacBook Pro

00:29:01   in the smallest ways possible

00:29:03   and it still has the touch bar,

00:29:06   like what are you doing?

00:29:07   Like I get that last time

00:29:10   when you were doing the first round of M1s

00:29:13   that the goal was kind of stability

00:29:15   and you just put the new chip in the old computer.

00:29:19   But last year you revised everything.

00:29:24   And this thing is still laying out there.

00:29:26   It's like, come on, just it's over.

00:29:28   So there are a few things that were added

00:29:33   to the MacBook Pro line in 2021

00:29:37   that helped differentiate it from the MacBook Air.

00:29:40   And this 13-inch MacBook Pro

00:29:42   does not have any of those things.

00:29:44   So I'm gonna go out on a limb.

00:29:47   And I know there's some reports that say it stays

00:29:50   and some reports that say it goes.

00:29:52   I like the home button.

00:29:54   I'm gonna put some money down on the touch bar.

00:29:56   Just, it's gone, it's gone.

00:29:58   Just some buttons up there.

00:29:59   Just some regular old function keys.

00:30:02   Goodbye touch bar.

00:30:03   - Jason, I'm all about the drama today.

00:30:05   I'm like, big drama draft boy.

00:30:08   - Big drama energy from you, yeah.

00:30:09   - I had this pick way later in my list,

00:30:12   but I'm gonna put it up there now.

00:30:14   the new MacBook Pro keeps the touch bar.

00:30:16   - (laughs) Okay, all right.

00:30:19   - Now, here's the thing.

00:30:21   - I am the picks of optimism

00:30:24   and you are the picks of pessimism

00:30:26   and we'll see who wins.

00:30:27   - It's not about pessimism.

00:30:28   I think I'm going for realism.

00:30:31   Now, this MacBook Pro will only exist

00:30:36   to maintain a price point, right?

00:30:40   That is why this thing exists.

00:30:41   This MacBook Pro only continues to exist

00:30:44   because they cannot get the 14 inch cheaper.

00:30:47   - I agree with you there.

00:30:49   Now let me throw something at you.

00:30:51   What do you think is cheaper,

00:30:52   function keys or a touch bar with an OLED display

00:30:55   and a touch sensitive surface?

00:30:56   - Here's what I'll say.

00:30:57   Here's what I'll say on that.

00:30:59   They already did the Apple Silicon revision

00:31:02   for the MacBook Pro with a touch bar.

00:31:05   I would expect it is cheaper to drop new chips

00:31:10   in that MacBook Pro, then going back to the MacBook Pro that had the function keys and

00:31:17   bringing that to the point where it's now ready for Apple Silicon.

00:31:22   I expect that if they within an 18 month period thought that they were going to be both A)

00:31:30   removing the touch bar from future designs and B) knowing they were going to keep the

00:31:35   the MacBook Pro around, they never would have revised

00:31:39   the MacBook Pro with a touch bar

00:31:41   to keep for Apple Silicon in the first place.

00:31:44   - Couple of things.

00:31:45   First off, I don't think that it works

00:31:47   where they go back to the MacBook escape

00:31:48   and then bring it forward.

00:31:49   I don't think that's how they would do it.

00:31:51   But secondly, I view it a very different way,

00:31:54   which is that they did a first round

00:31:56   of Apple Silicon M1 Mac designs

00:32:01   basically to get the first ones out the door

00:32:04   so they could move on and actually do the redesigns

00:32:06   and that it was a placeholder and it wasn't,

00:32:09   well, if we're gonna keep this around,

00:32:11   let's redesign it now.

00:32:13   It was like, it's not important for us to redesign it

00:32:15   'cause it's the least important MacBook Pro.

00:32:18   So let's wait and keep its redesign for later

00:32:22   and now it's later.

00:32:23   So that's the way that I approach it.

00:32:25   And I do think that it's cheaper

00:32:26   to not have an OLED touch surface

00:32:28   and that replacing that with function keys

00:32:30   is probably something that will make a cheaper product.

00:32:33   - So we'll see, we're head to head.

00:32:35   - They may have a big stock part

00:32:36   and a touch bars somewhere.

00:32:38   - For people who are not listening live,

00:32:42   I just wanna give you a little sense

00:32:44   of one of the great things about being a real AFM member

00:32:47   and listening live while being in our Discord

00:32:49   is that the Discord is kind of losing it.

00:32:52   I have seen Myke is doomed

00:32:54   and Jason is throwing it both in the chat.

00:32:58   So I like it, I like it.

00:33:00   Everybody's opposed, everybody has an opinion.

00:33:02   The drama, thank you, Myke, for cultivating the drama.

00:33:04   - Bring in the drama today.

00:33:05   This is draft drama, that's what I'm all about,

00:33:07   draft drama.

00:33:08   I just think that there's like, for me,

00:33:10   there's a bunch of reasons to keep the touch bar.

00:33:13   I think it's the speed thing.

00:33:14   I think that there is a continuation

00:33:16   of needing to separate the devices, right?

00:33:19   Like, at that point, if it's,

00:33:21   why is it different to a MacBook Air?

00:33:23   It's just bigger.

00:33:24   Like, I think that there's just like a bunch of reasons

00:33:27   they're gonna keep the touch bar,

00:33:28   even though I don't think they should.

00:33:29   - All right, with my next pick,

00:33:30   I'm going back to the Mac.

00:33:31   I'm going to the Mac Mini that you say is going to be announced.

00:33:34   And I'm going to say it will have options for both the M1 Pro and M1 Max chip.

00:33:39   Okay. This was my next pick. This was going to be what I went with.

00:33:44   I think that for me,

00:33:47   I feel like this Mac Mini is a replacement for both Mac Minis,

00:33:51   right?

00:33:52   And that they may have like the ability to have a Mac Mini that can be specced

00:33:57   across the M1.

00:33:59   - Well, that would be the ideal, right?

00:34:01   Is that you could get an M1 or M2 when it comes along

00:34:03   and then an M1 Pro and M1 Max,

00:34:06   and you're really just sort of picking it.

00:34:08   It depends on the marketing.

00:34:09   They may say, right, but it's all,

00:34:12   it's what we've said about the iMac.

00:34:15   Also is true of the Mac Mini is.

00:34:16   They could market the Mac Mini and a Mac Mini Pro

00:34:20   and have it be different names

00:34:24   and this one's Silver and this one's Space Gray,

00:34:26   but ultimately I think it's gonna be good, better, best

00:34:30   kind of thing, right?

00:34:31   Where it's like you can get an M1 or an M1 Pro

00:34:33   or an M1 Max, it's all Mac mini.

00:34:35   And I think that that's where they're headed.

00:34:37   - I feel like I'm bringing more drama right now, Jason.

00:34:41   - Bring it in.

00:34:42   - The new MacBook Pro gets an M2 chip.

00:34:44   - Whoa, interesting, interesting.

00:34:49   M2, so a lot of rumors that M2 is coming.

00:34:53   A lot of rumors about the M2 appearing first

00:34:56   in a MacBook Air that keeps getting delayed

00:34:58   till maybe even this summer.

00:35:00   But you're saying it's gonna debut

00:35:03   whenever this event happens.

00:35:06   - Yeah.

00:35:07   Here's the thing, I don't think personally

00:35:11   that they would put an M1 Pro or M1 Max chip

00:35:14   in this MacBook Pro.

00:35:15   To me, that doesn't make sense.

00:35:19   It's like, what is this MacBook Pro

00:35:22   if it can have so much power at that point.

00:35:25   Things start to get confusing for me.

00:35:27   They have to start M2 at some point.

00:35:30   Like, some point it needs to begin.

00:35:33   To me, it would make sense that they would put it in

00:35:35   what is at this point, I think, the oldest,

00:35:39   or one of the oldest computers that has an M1 in it.

00:35:44   - Uh-huh.

00:35:45   - So it makes sense to me that they would start with M2

00:35:49   sooner rather than later,

00:35:51   'cause otherwise it could potentially be,

00:35:52   and as the Mac Mini gets it,

00:35:54   it'll be going all the way to the end of the year

00:35:56   before M2 comes out,

00:35:57   if the MacBook Air isn't gonna come anytime soon.

00:36:00   So I think that the MacBook Pro will get an M2 chip.

00:36:03   - Very interesting.

00:36:05   Feel like it's premature, but who knows?

00:36:10   - Premature though, really?

00:36:12   I mean, didn't it start in like the end of 2020

00:36:17   with the M1?

00:36:18   - Yeah, oh yeah.

00:36:19   I just, I don't know, I've read enough reports

00:36:22   that suggest that the MacBook Air is sort of

00:36:25   when the M2 debuts, that I've kind of been thinking

00:36:29   that the M2 debut is gonna happen later.

00:36:31   But it could happen now.

00:36:32   It will be interesting if it does happen

00:36:35   to see how Apple spins comparing M2 to M1 Pro and M1 Max,

00:36:40   right, because like M2 sounds newer,

00:36:43   but it's not gonna be nearly as fast as an M2

00:36:46   or an M1 Pro or M1 Max.

00:36:48   - Yep.

00:36:49   - So they're gonna have to trick that one out.

00:36:53   Well, so here's a funny thing, Myke.

00:36:56   We're in our last round now.

00:36:58   And neither of us has picked anything

00:36:59   about rumored MacBook Air and larger iMac models.

00:37:04   - Well, I think there's a pretty good reason for that, but.

00:37:07   - I think the challenge is that while I want there

00:37:10   to be a larger iMac and Mark Gurman seems

00:37:12   to not have a view into it in his reports,

00:37:15   I have not seen any reports that really suggest

00:37:18   despite how much I want it to exist,

00:37:20   that it actually is going to exist.

00:37:22   - Which is funny to me because when I opened,

00:37:28   so I started off our list that we keep

00:37:31   with the text that we can choose from,

00:37:35   and I sent it to you.

00:37:36   When I reopened it again, you had added more items

00:37:40   to the new larger iMac category than anywhere else.

00:37:44   - There's so many great mysteries about a new larger iMac.

00:37:47   And I know you care about it the most.

00:37:49   - Yeah, and it's very hard for me to choose

00:37:52   about whether it will exist or not.

00:37:56   So my question is basically,

00:37:57   do I wanna throw a pick at something

00:37:58   in order to make it exist?

00:38:00   'Cause I have that kind of magical power.

00:38:02   - So that's, what is that?

00:38:04   - Wish casting.

00:38:04   - Yeah, okay.

00:38:06   - Oh yeah, sure.

00:38:07   Or do I wanna just go with something that's safe and boring

00:38:13   and I really don't wanna flip the pen over.

00:38:15   So I'm gonna go with a Mac Mini keeps the same design.

00:38:19   - Okay.

00:38:20   Darn it.

00:38:22   - Is that on your list?

00:38:26   - Yeah.

00:38:27   - I mean, I would love a new design for the Mac Mini

00:38:29   that's smaller and just all tiny and awesome and all,

00:38:34   but they've worn me down to the point now

00:38:37   that the M1 Mac Mini has so much open space in it

00:38:40   that I actually think it's an advantage

00:38:41   because if you wanna put a cooling system in there

00:38:44   for the M1 Pro and M1 Macs,

00:38:46   then you actually wanna have a mini that's that size.

00:38:49   And, you know, Apple releasing new versions

00:38:52   of the Mac Mini is great.

00:38:53   Expecting Apple to change the shape of the Mac Mini,

00:38:56   I feel like is unrealistic.

00:38:58   So I'm gonna give up and just say,

00:38:59   "Yeah, it's gonna look the same,

00:39:01   "but it's gonna be awesome on the inside."

00:39:03   - I'm trying to work out right now

00:39:05   if I go for drama,

00:39:08   - Uh-huh. - Go for something exciting,

00:39:10   or I just go for a boring final pick.

00:39:13   - I almost offered a deal with you,

00:39:18   which was that for our last picks in this round

00:39:22   to not be about the Mac mini and the MacBook Pro,

00:39:25   but then I decided I wouldn't.

00:39:27   - No, because more than anything, Jason,

00:39:29   I think the upgrade ends have learned,

00:39:31   do you love to win?

00:39:32   - I wanna win the draft, yeah, I do.

00:39:34   - Yeah, I know, I know you wanna win the draft.

00:39:42   - All right, I'm just gonna go boring.

00:39:45   - Okay.

00:39:46   - The Mac Mini gets more ports than the M1 Mac Mini.

00:39:50   - More ports than the M1 Mac Mini.

00:39:52   I like this one.

00:39:55   I enjoyed picking this

00:39:56   because I think it's kind of diabolical, right?

00:39:58   It's like more ports.

00:40:02   - Yup.

00:40:03   - They could be different,

00:40:04   but if it's the same number, it's not more ports.

00:40:08   I was actually, I had my next on my list

00:40:10   that I didn't go with was Mac Mini has

00:40:12   one or more USB-A ports on it, because I think that's a hilarious question too.

00:40:17   And I don't know the answer. I think probably it would because the current Mac Mini did,

00:40:22   but who knows what Apple's opinion of various ports are at any given time. You would think,

00:40:28   based on the MacBook Pro, that a powerful Mac Mini would have lots of ports on the back.

00:40:33   That has traditionally been the case, that the Mac Mini has had a lot of ports on the back.

00:40:37   It just wasn't true with the M1 because the M1 Mac Mini was an M1 and didn't have the ability to

00:40:44   really have very many ports. But this one's going to have more capable chips, so it should have more

00:40:51   ports on it. One way or another, I expect that if we get a Mac Mini, it has the capability for more.

00:40:56   I reckon M2 will do it or M1 Pro or Max will do it. And it'll probably be something simple like,

00:41:03   it'll still have the USB-A ports on it,

00:41:06   but it'll have an extra Thunderbolt on it,

00:41:09   something like that.

00:41:10   - Or like, they're all Thunderbolt,

00:41:11   but there's more than there was before,

00:41:13   or who knows, you know what I mean?

00:41:14   Something like that.

00:41:15   - Something like that.

00:41:17   - The pick that I wanted to go with then

00:41:19   is that I do actually think that Mac Mini

00:41:21   will get a new design.

00:41:23   - I think there's a chance,

00:41:25   and I'll be delightfully surprised

00:41:28   and happy to lose that point if it comes to that.

00:41:31   'Cause I think that my hope also fear

00:41:34   is that they're gonna do a redesign.

00:41:36   And one of the things they're gonna do

00:41:38   is they're gonna put the power supply outbound

00:41:43   like they did on the, in outboard power supply

00:41:45   like they've done in the iMac.

00:41:46   - Yeah, that'd be nice.

00:41:48   - Well, it's bad.

00:41:50   In some ways it's bad because you have to manage that block

00:41:54   and people don't like that.

00:41:56   But at the same time it gets it off the desk

00:41:59   and it might even use the same connector as on the iMac,

00:42:03   and that that allows them to take the power supply

00:42:05   out of it, which means that it can be even smaller.

00:42:08   And they may yet do that, but I don't know.

00:42:12   Again, they've ground me down with the Mac Mini.

00:42:15   I wrote articles imagining a new design for the Mac Mini

00:42:17   like five years ago, and it still looks exactly the same.

00:42:20   So I give up.

00:42:21   - My feeling on this is I do genuinely believe

00:42:26   that there will be no Mac untouched design-wise

00:42:31   after the end of the Apple Silicon transition?

00:42:38   - I see where you're coming from,

00:42:40   and yet again, they ground me down with the Mac Mini so much

00:42:44   that, like, that M1 Mac Mini, oh my God, right?

00:42:47   It's literally like a couple of tiny things

00:42:50   rattling around inside a giant aluminum enclosure

00:42:52   'cause they didn't wanna change it.

00:42:54   But maybe now's the time.

00:42:55   I mean, that's my, you're making my argument

00:42:57   for the 13 inch MacBook Pro, right?

00:43:00   Which is, it wasn't important enough to change

00:43:03   when they were getting the M1s out the door,

00:43:04   but now is the time to refresh.

00:43:08   And you could make the same argument for both of those.

00:43:11   And the Air, which we all expect is gonna be changed.

00:43:14   But yeah, it could be time for the Mac mini

00:43:17   and the 13 inch MacBook Pro to look different.

00:43:19   - Of course, there was a ton of stuff we did not pick.

00:43:23   We did not pick anything iMac related,

00:43:25   did not pick anything MacBook Air related.

00:43:27   We're gonna go over some of the things

00:43:29   we didn't pick in Upgrade Plus today.

00:43:31   So if you sign up, you go to getupgradeplus.com,

00:43:33   you can sign up $5 a month or $50 a year.

00:43:36   You get longer ad-free versions of Upgrade,

00:43:38   and this time we're gonna be talking about

00:43:40   some of the stuff that did not make it

00:43:42   into the draft list this time around.

00:43:45   Honestly, I don't really know how I'm feeling

00:43:47   about the draft for me so far.

00:43:49   I have not picked anything that was not on my list.

00:43:52   I just maybe moved some stuff around a little bit more.

00:43:55   But I feel like people may disagree with me.

00:44:00   I'm sure people do.

00:44:02   I'm seeing people that do,

00:44:03   but I do think that all of these things are going to happen.

00:44:07   For me, it's just a case of, does it happen this time

00:44:09   or does it happen next time?

00:44:11   - Oh yeah.

00:44:12   Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:44:13   - We'll see.

00:44:14   - But one of the challenges with the Raft

00:44:15   is that we're trying to gauge,

00:44:19   - The heart of it too is just trying to restrict

00:44:22   your enthusiasm.

00:44:23   And I've done some things here that are like letting

00:44:25   a little bit of my enthusiasm out,

00:44:27   but like I didn't pick an iMac,

00:44:29   even though I want it badly.

00:44:31   Because I think I'm over indexing how likely it is

00:44:36   that it'll happen based on my enthusiasm for it.

00:44:41   So I'm trying to kind of tamp that down.

00:44:43   I do think it'll happen.

00:44:44   But again, like with doing a new Mac mini enclosure,

00:44:47   where I'm like, yeah, I've been burned enough, let's not.

00:44:51   - I would question an Apple event where we get an iPhone,

00:44:57   an iPad, a Mac mini and a MacBook Pro

00:44:59   and they basically all remain the same visually.

00:45:02   Like, and I know that we've got some different picks

00:45:04   between the two of us across this spectrum,

00:45:07   but like that's why I think at least something's

00:45:10   gotta change somewhere, right?

00:45:12   Then I don't know what it is.

00:45:14   Can you, I mean how funny that would be though.

00:45:16   If the iPhone SE got updated with new internals, the iPad Air got updated with new internals,

00:45:21   the MacBook Pro got updated with new internals, so does the Mac Mini.

00:45:24   Goodbye everyone!

00:45:25   Bye everybody!

00:45:26   See you at WNBC!

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00:47:41   of this show and relay FM.

00:47:43   Ok we move into other picks. Now this is a range of products that we haven't mentioned

00:47:49   that don't fall into the previous categories. Stagecraft picks, software, hardware, all

00:47:55   of that fun stuff. We are picking two things each from this round. Jason, what's your first?

00:48:01   I am going to pick... I'm just going in on March 8th. Going in on March 8th. The event takes place

00:48:11   March 8th. Very nice. Interesting. Okay. I didn't end up picking this one. Felt like tempting fate

00:48:19   to me. Yeah, I didn't find a lot in our others list that I was really super excited about,

00:48:24   And I think that I when I when I look back at what I thought the probabilities were for all the items in our miscellaneous list

00:48:32   I decided that the event taking place on March 8th was actually stronger than I initially thought

00:48:37   so I'm just gonna lay it down and we'll see whether Mark Gurman's

00:48:41   vague pronouncements about March 8th are right or not. And if we do decide that

00:48:46   This goes on long enough that we each get to swap out a pick guess which one I'm swapping out

00:48:51   (laughing)

00:48:54   - My first pick is that Tim Cook presents

00:48:58   from outside Apple Park.

00:49:00   - What makes you think that?

00:49:03   - Because he does that every single time

00:49:06   except for the iPhone.

00:49:08   - I mean, sometimes he's in the cafe

00:49:12   and sometimes he's in the theater.

00:49:15   - But he's always walking around that Tim Cook, you know?

00:49:18   - He is walking around, yeah, that's true.

00:49:19   - And I do feel like spring event,

00:49:21   - Remember when he was standing amongst all the reads

00:49:23   last time?

00:49:24   - Yeah, okay.

00:49:27   - So I think that he will be presented

00:49:28   from outside Apple Park. - A little nature,

00:49:29   a little nature for Tim.

00:49:30   - Obviously this does not account for the entire

00:49:32   presentation, it's not one I'm picking.

00:49:35   This says it could be multiple reads on this.

00:49:38   Tim Cook presents from outside Apple Park, he will.

00:49:41   - Okay, and I'm gonna go with a classic,

00:49:44   We See the Rainbow Stage.

00:49:47   - Oh, I had this, I had this very--

00:49:50   - Taste the Rainbow, See the Rainbow,

00:49:51   They love that rainbow stage, they love it.

00:49:53   And all you have to do is see, remember there was that one event where it was dark and it

00:49:55   was like the saddest, darkest rainbow of all, but it was there.

00:49:59   Midnight rainbow.

00:50:00   They like, they like it.

00:50:02   That could be one of the colors in the color draft, just stay tuned for that.

00:50:05   John Turnas presents the segment.

00:50:08   Okay.

00:50:09   What uh, what made you pick him?

00:50:11   If there's a Mac, Turnas will present it.

00:50:14   Okay.

00:50:15   Because he has presented every Mac that they've announced in the last little while.

00:50:20   I do still assume that he is considered for great things at Apple.

00:50:26   We've mentioned this before.

00:50:28   And apparently John Turness is seen as a potential future CEO of the company.

00:50:33   So I think they're just going to continue to give him space.

00:50:38   He has a more important role at Apple now than he has in previous years.

00:50:44   I think that he will get his time.

00:50:45   Plus, he's just a really good presenter.

00:50:47   I really like parts where John Turner presents,

00:50:50   and I think they're gonna continue doing that,

00:50:52   especially if they have anything new chip based.

00:50:55   And I know that he doesn't do all of it,

00:50:57   but he very frequently starts that part

00:51:00   and then throws over to someone in the chip lab.

00:51:02   - Totally.

00:51:03   - So we now move into the draft of The Color Czar.

00:51:07   - Yes.

00:51:07   - So this is a Jason Snell creation.

00:51:10   And a Jason Snell adaptation.

00:51:12   Would you like to explain what this is?

00:51:15   I think it would be fun for us to draft colors.

00:51:18   Apple's doing a lot of stuff with color.

00:51:20   They're putting color, there's colors in the iPad Air,

00:51:23   there's colors in the iMac.

00:51:25   There may be colors coming to the big iMac.

00:51:29   There may be, there's colors in iPhones.

00:51:32   And so we did this last time and I wanna bring it back.

00:51:36   A silly little game that we tack on to the end of the draft

00:51:39   where we pick colors.

00:51:42   In this case, we are going to pick colors.

00:51:45   that are unveiled in a new product during the event.

00:51:49   For this one, I'm gonna say that if the color

00:51:54   isn't said out loud, but it shows up

00:51:56   in the product description afterward, it's good enough,

00:51:59   'cause it's really, this is like a little adjunct

00:52:02   to the main draft.

00:52:03   But the idea here is we're trying to guess

00:52:05   what colors Apple puts on its products.

00:52:08   By the way, if a color is used on more than one product,

00:52:11   I would say it's worth a point for each product it's on.

00:52:14   and most total points gets a bonus draft point.

00:52:16   - Yes, so this is going to be a slight change

00:52:21   to the way that we usually do things,

00:52:24   because we are going to have to,

00:52:26   and we've agreed on this in advance,

00:52:28   we will do it for this.

00:52:29   We will be going into Apple's product pages

00:52:33   and confirming the color names and their frequencies.

00:52:37   It may be possible, honestly,

00:52:39   that we might be able to just get all of this information

00:52:41   from the keynote.

00:52:43   That's, you know, they show videos

00:52:45   and we could see all the colors there,

00:52:47   but we will be wanting to go in and triple check this one.

00:52:51   But of course we have to be able to confirm it

00:52:54   before the draft segment, the results segment ends.

00:52:58   That still stands.

00:53:00   - Now in the original Colors Are draft,

00:53:02   we got very competitive and we got caught up

00:53:06   in picking things that were boring and we tied.

00:53:09   And so there was no bonus point there.

00:53:11   So in this colors are draft,

00:53:13   we each have to make three picks.

00:53:16   We have to make a boring pick.

00:53:18   We have to make a color pick.

00:53:20   And then we have to make up a color name

00:53:22   that we think Apple will use

00:53:24   that has not yet been used on an Apple product.

00:53:26   Those are our three selections.

00:53:28   - All right.

00:53:28   So just to give a little bit more information on this,

00:53:31   boring colors are names of colors

00:53:34   that are preexisting in Apple products.

00:53:37   Colors are just colors, right?

00:53:41   Any color you could pick it, new or old I guess you could pick it.

00:53:44   But like the boring colors is like your space grays, your space blacks of the world, you know that kind of stuff.

00:53:51   Yeah, space gray silver, starlight, midnight.

00:53:53   By the way starlight, did you know there's now a Coke flavor called starlight?

00:53:56   What does that mean?

00:53:57   I wonder if it tastes like a MacBook.

00:54:01   Coke starlight?

00:54:02   I guess it would taste like an iPhone.

00:54:04   Yeah, starlight.

00:54:05   Thetakeout.com says Coca-Cola starlight tastes like one big marketing ploy.

00:54:10   - Yeah, well, sounds about right.

00:54:13   Anyway, so the boring colors are not very colorful,

00:54:15   is the point.

00:54:16   Silver, space gray, starlight, midnight, space black, rose.

00:54:18   I'm putting rose gold in there.

00:54:19   It's kind of boring.

00:54:20   It's been around a long time.

00:54:21   Colors are like green and orange and pink and purple

00:54:23   and yellow and blue.

00:54:24   Also the iPad Air currently comes in sky blue.

00:54:27   So you could say sky blue if you wanted to.

00:54:28   And that's a color, sky blue.

00:54:30   - Can I ask a question?

00:54:32   - Yes. - Is there a final question

00:54:32   on colors? - And if you wanted to do

00:54:34   midnight lemon or Pacific blue or whatever,

00:54:36   you could do that too.

00:54:37   And that's a color.

00:54:38   Starlight and Midnight, right?

00:54:40   We couldn't really understand what these colors were.

00:54:43   - Right.

00:54:45   - Now, when it comes to colors,

00:54:47   the colors category of the colors are draft,

00:54:50   do they have to be named this?

00:54:53   - I would say yes.

00:54:56   I would say if you pick blue

00:54:58   and the blue that they use is sky blue and not blue,

00:55:01   it's not. - Or if like,

00:55:01   it's called Azure, right?

00:55:04   - Yeah, but what I don't wanna do is get like, so pink.

00:55:07   Pink is a color and you can say,

00:55:09   well, but really the pink iMac, it's kind of red.

00:55:13   No, it's called pink.

00:55:15   - Cool, this is what I want you to check.

00:55:16   It's just the name, we are matching the name.

00:55:18   - It is the name, right?

00:55:20   Apple gets to name it,

00:55:21   we just have to guess what they're gonna name it.

00:55:23   - Yeah, this is what I wanted to check

00:55:24   'cause I don't wanna be like color,

00:55:28   like, you know, I don't wanna start getting out color meters.

00:55:30   - We're gonna argue whether something,

00:55:32   whether the new Aqua iMac is green or blue, right?

00:55:35   We don't want to be in that situation.

00:55:38   That way lies more madness than we already have.

00:55:40   So no.

00:55:41   - And then the Invent a Color round

00:55:44   is we need to pick a marketing name for a color.

00:55:48   - Exactly.

00:55:49   You got it. - Which is amazing.

00:55:50   That's my favorite one.

00:55:52   All right. - Okay.

00:55:53   - What is your boring color?

00:55:56   - Silver.

00:55:57   The most boring color of all is silver.

00:55:59   I choose silver.

00:56:05   - Silver was my first choice.

00:56:07   - It is the most, like, is Apple not gonna offer it

00:56:11   in silver?

00:56:11   Of course it is.

00:56:12   - So I'm not asking for you here,

00:56:14   but I'm just gonna talk, speak this aloud, all right?

00:56:17   - All right.

00:56:18   - My next two are Starlight and Space Gray.

00:56:21   Starlight is a newer one, right?

00:56:25   - I'm worried about this, 'cause it sure looks like

00:56:28   Starlight and Midnight are the new Silver and Space Gray.

00:56:32   - Yes.

00:56:33   haven't brought them to a bunch of products

00:56:37   that are, you know, they're not yet,

00:56:41   it's not yet clear that they're gonna be everywhere.

00:56:44   - Oh, I've made my decision.

00:56:45   - Like, are they gonna make a Starlight MacBook Pro?

00:56:47   - You've helped me make my decision,

00:56:49   which is I'm going with Space Gray.

00:56:51   - Space Gray, okay.

00:56:52   - I am expecting some products that they announce

00:56:57   will not get new colors,

00:56:58   they will just be in the old colors.

00:57:00   - Uh-huh, yeah, that's part of the game.

00:57:01   - The nice gray is the old colors, right?

00:57:04   - Now we get complaints in the chat now

00:57:05   that you shouldn't be able to pick silver.

00:57:07   And the answer is this is the boring of color people.

00:57:09   This is what it's all about.

00:57:10   The good news is, boring color round is now over.

00:57:13   - Silver to be a color that Apple offers anymore.

00:57:16   But they do, so what do you want from us?

00:57:19   - Exactly, exactly.

00:57:21   Can you imagine all the people who are gonna be angry

00:57:23   if they replace silver with starlight and they're like,

00:57:25   no, it's slightly different.

00:57:27   I guess.

00:57:29   I had a Starlight review unit and I looked at it

00:57:31   and I was like, is this different?

00:57:34   And you had to literally had to hold it next to a silver one

00:57:37   and then you'd be like, sort of, a little bit, not a lot.

00:57:42   All right, it's color time.

00:57:44   I got to pick a color.

00:57:47   We've got Mac books and Mac minis and an iPad Air.

00:57:52   - And an iPhone SE.

00:57:55   - And an iPhone SE.

00:57:57   - And I will also just note for the record,

00:57:59   one of the picks that we did not pick,

00:58:01   but I would mention it here,

00:58:02   Apple announces a new color to the iPhone 13 line,

00:58:05   which they did do last time with the purple one.

00:58:08   - Right, so that might be part of it too.

00:58:10   - Easter iPhone.

00:58:11   - I'm gonna go with...

00:58:18   Oh, this is a tough one.

00:58:26   Well, it's just we're gonna go with green.

00:58:32   I'm gonna take green.

00:58:34   All right.

00:58:35   Thought about product red there for a minute, but I went with green.

00:58:39   You just put an idea in my brain.

00:58:42   But it's not on the list, though.

00:58:45   You can pick product red if you want.

00:58:47   I'm gonna.

00:58:48   I'm sorry.

00:58:49   I'm picking red.

00:58:50   Product red.

00:58:51   Okay.

00:58:52   My actual colors that I had that I was going to pick is purple, blue and orange.

00:58:58   They were the three.

00:59:00   Purple I was going to abandon even though it was my top one because then when thinking about it,

00:59:04   I don't think they're going to do a purple iPhone two times in a row.

00:59:08   Right?

00:59:10   And orange was high up there for me because orange is like a good color for Apple these days.

00:59:21   Apple product name color of our own.

00:59:51   Now here's the thing, this is what we're gonna go with here.

00:59:56   There's two options on the table.

00:59:58   Do you either A, put an adjective

01:00:01   in front of a standard color?

01:00:03   You'll say Pacific blue of the world.

01:00:06   Or do you go starlight and just pick a random word?

01:00:11   - Ah yes, that's right.

01:00:12   - Any color can be assigned to.

01:00:14   - Supernova.

01:00:16   - Rhinoceros or something.

01:00:18   (laughing)

01:00:20   - I choose deep blue sea.

01:00:25   - All right, interesting.

01:00:26   That's a completely new convention

01:00:28   where the color name is in the middle.

01:00:30   - Sure, I'm breaking new ground here.

01:00:33   Why not?

01:00:34   - Sea blue, Jason, why deep blue sea?

01:00:38   All right, so--

01:00:39   - Well, they got sky blue

01:00:40   and it's like the devil in the deep blue sea.

01:00:41   It's the deep blue sea.

01:00:42   Deep blue sea is, I've just decided,

01:00:45   sea blue is probably better, but it's too late.

01:00:47   I have three. I'm trying to pick which one. I tell you the one I think that I had that I don't think it will be.

01:00:55   Cosmic Black. That was one of them. But I'm going to go with Spring Yellow.

01:01:04   Oh, okay. Safari Green was my other one. But Safari Green. That feels very pro.

01:01:12   So my Safari green, Safari green is my iMac Pro color.

01:01:17   - Yeah.

01:01:18   - Right?

01:01:19   - Yeah.

01:01:20   - Spring yellow is what I'm gonna go with for,

01:01:22   and I'm betting spring yellow on a potential iPhone color.

01:01:26   That's where I'm going with that.

01:01:27   - Okay.

01:01:29   - Here's a question for you.

01:01:31   - Yeah.

01:01:32   - Are we gonna count cases in this?

01:01:35   - No, no, this is just on the hardware.

01:01:39   - Computers, phones, that kind of stuff, right?

01:01:42   - Exactly.

01:01:42   - Cool.

01:01:43   So we'll have to double check

01:01:44   'cause obviously that opens us up a lot, right?

01:01:46   And could take us quite a while

01:01:47   to check through all this stuff.

01:01:49   - Yes.

01:01:50   - We'll see.

01:01:51   Maybe that's a thing, maybe in future, right?

01:01:53   We could start including.

01:01:54   We'll see how the cut draft of the ColorZar goes.

01:01:56   - I fear that the end result here

01:01:58   is going to be either a boring tie or a win

01:02:01   because of more silver things or more gray things.

01:02:05   But we're still fine tuning the ColorZar draft.

01:02:08   - Who knows how it's gonna go.

01:02:09   - Yeah, it does.

01:02:11   So that's it. That draft is complete.

01:02:13   The episode is not over.

01:02:14   I had a few more things I want to get to today,

01:02:16   but the draft is now done.

01:02:19   I have no idea about this one.

01:02:21   I don't feel confident,

01:02:22   but I don't feel like you've taken it.

01:02:24   So, you know, I'm just like,

01:02:26   we're just going to see how this one plays out.

01:02:29   Maybe there won't even be an event.

01:02:32   - The one pick here of yours

01:02:39   that I raise my eyebrows at the most is the M2 chip.

01:02:44   But-- - Oh yeah, definitely.

01:02:45   Yeah, yeah. - We'll see.

01:02:48   - Yeah, we'll see.

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01:04:46   Howdy partner!

01:04:47   Hey there partner, it's time for the room roundup!

01:04:52   So I thought, I still wanted to go through some of this stuff, some things that may be

01:04:57   of an effect to the event itself, but I wanted to obviously talk about them after we've made

01:05:02   our picks so as not to sway our opinions. The Sheriff of Rumorville, Mark Gurman, expects

01:05:10   Apple to release seven new Macs in 2022. This includes a new Mac Mini with an M1 Pro chip,

01:05:19   a 13-inch MacBook Pro with an M2 chip. See if I would have read this and then a Mac Mini

01:05:24   with an M2 chip. Come on, Mark, you got my back. A 24-inch iMac with an M2 chip, a redesigned

01:05:30   MacBook Air with an M2 chip, a larger iMac Pro with M1 Pro and M1 Max chip options, and

01:05:37   a half-sized Mac Pro, the first of Apple Silicon, with the equivalent of either two or four

01:05:43   M1 Max chips.

01:05:45   Now we have heard about all of these things, I feel like over the last year or so, but

01:05:50   the idea, just laying it out there, seven new Macs in 2022, woo boy.

01:05:56   - Yeah, yeah, including the big iMac and the Mac Pro

01:06:00   and the first wave of M2 Macs as well.

01:06:05   That's pretty sweet, pretty sweet.

01:06:06   - It's gonna be a big, big important, yeah.

01:06:08   Now, Mark's guess for March, the March event,

01:06:12   is MacBook Pro and Mac Mini.

01:06:14   Mark feels pretty confident about that.

01:06:19   And he goes on to mention, more releases expected

01:06:23   in the May/June timeframe could be the Mac Pro,

01:06:27   unsure of the window of the iMac Pro,

01:06:30   but between now and June seeming the most likely.

01:06:33   - Yeah.

01:06:34   - I still don't think we're gonna see a release

01:06:36   of a Mac Pro in June.

01:06:37   - I, yeah, I still think that the most likely scenario

01:06:43   is that the Mac Pro gets teased and then releases later,

01:06:46   but who knows?

01:06:47   I mean, they've got the M1 Pro and Macs chips out there now.

01:06:49   If they've got them, then they're obviously,

01:06:51   they've got all the parts

01:06:52   and they just need to put it together.

01:06:54   So who knows?

01:06:56   That's part of the excitement of having Apple

01:06:59   not be constrained by Intel product releases

01:07:01   is we don't really know what Apple's full array

01:07:04   of Apple Silicon Macs is gonna be.

01:07:06   And then we don't know what their update schedule

01:07:08   is gonna be.

01:07:09   And this is gonna be our first data point to really,

01:07:12   'cause you gotta connect two events

01:07:15   to start making extrapolations.

01:07:17   And we haven't had two events of any Apple Silicon product.

01:07:21   We've only had introductions.

01:07:22   So we're gonna really get a sense.

01:07:24   And the M2, I think the M2 is really interesting.

01:07:26   Like is this next event the M2 rollout?

01:07:29   And you go into the chip lab, it could be.

01:07:31   And you talk about we're doing this next generation M2

01:07:34   and the first place it's going is the MacBook Pro.

01:07:36   And that's what differentiates it,

01:07:39   at least momentarily from the MacBook Air

01:07:42   is that it's got the better chip in it,

01:07:44   which then the MacBook Air will get later.

01:07:46   So I don't know, maybe, maybe could be.

01:07:49   That would be, I think it would not be unreasonable

01:07:51   for this event to be putting the M1 Pro and Max

01:07:56   in Pro-E hardware like the Mac mini

01:08:00   and the, and maybe even an iMac,

01:08:05   and then putting the M2 in a new lower end piece of hardware

01:08:10   like the 13-inch MacBook Pro.

01:08:13   Maybe, maybe, I could see that.

01:08:15   - Jon Prosser has shared a leaked schematic

01:08:19   of the iPhone 14 which shows both a hole punch camera and a pill shaped face ID sensor with

01:08:26   no more notch. This has been rumoured before but this schematic seems to show some of the

01:08:32   sizing, the sizing being much larger than people expected. It's expected that this

01:08:37   kind of like jewel hole punch cut out screen will find its way to all of the iPhone 14

01:08:45   later on this year.

01:08:46   I don't think we've spoken about this at all.

01:08:49   I kind of wanted to get your thoughts

01:08:51   on this overall design.

01:08:54   So losing the notch and having kind of some holes

01:08:57   be cut into the screen,

01:08:58   but having the screen flow around them.

01:09:01   What is your take on this?

01:09:03   - Well, you know, Apple can define areas that are not,

01:09:06   you know, that are not safe.

01:09:08   The notch is one version of it.

01:09:09   This might be a different one.

01:09:11   I think Apple has shown that they know how to hide this stuff

01:09:15   when necessary and keep the software in line.

01:09:19   So this would just be a way to reduce the visibility

01:09:24   of the notch a little bit.

01:09:26   It's fine.

01:09:27   I think we all expected that they were going to continue

01:09:29   to slim things down as much as possible

01:09:32   until they can get to the point where it's all invisible.

01:09:34   I don't know.

01:09:37   I think it'll be interesting to see

01:09:39   what it actually looks like in use

01:09:42   and how Apple handles the software.

01:09:44   I imagine that for most cases it will be up in the,

01:09:48   you know, up in the display bar area or just below it.

01:09:52   And we'll, you know, Apple will try to discourage

01:09:56   the use of the space around it for general purpose.

01:09:59   And I don't know, I mean, I'm fine with it.

01:10:02   I have come to not care about the notch at all.

01:10:06   Every now and then a tweet makes its way into my timeline

01:10:09   where somebody makes a notch joke and I think, really?

01:10:12   Like, oh, okay.

01:10:14   I'm over it.

01:10:16   And even on the MacBook Pro, I think the notch is fine

01:10:20   because they've done a good job

01:10:21   of basically making it irrelevant.

01:10:23   So it doesn't really bother me

01:10:26   and I doubt this would bother me either.

01:10:27   I think we'll all get used to it.

01:10:28   And I think Apple's goal is ultimately

01:10:31   to reduce that space as much as possible.

01:10:34   - Yeah, I don't think about the notches

01:10:35   on any of my devices.

01:10:37   Because it's not, it doesn't impede me in any way.

01:10:40   And for this, it's like it would only be better because, you know, I don't imagine people

01:10:46   going to start putting content behind there.

01:10:48   But like, you know, like most applications and websites or whatever now they just have

01:10:52   like a blank color up at the top.

01:10:54   And this way the color would just flow around more neatly.

01:10:57   You know, I think it would feel more integrated as part of the overall design.

01:11:01   I would be totally fine with this.

01:11:03   And it is with the idea that like, this is the next step or maybe in another three or

01:11:07   for

01:11:24   just from a quality perspective, but this is how this stuff begins. And I think that

01:11:31   this makes a lot of sense for them to go in this direction. Plus, it will make another

01:11:36   iPhone visibly different. And we all know what happens when iPhones are visibly different.

01:11:42   They sell a lot of them.

01:11:43   I mean, I think external hardware-shaped stuff is more powerful, but I agree. Any change

01:11:50   is good and that we all agree that the ultimate goal here is to have the sensors be invisible,

01:11:56   but they can't do that yet. So here we are.

01:11:59   - DigiTimes is reporting that Apple's headset hardware has passed some important hardware

01:12:05   tests indicating that it could actually be indeed ready for a late 2022 release.

01:12:11   - Well, congratulations headset on passing your exams.

01:12:15   - A star I heard.

01:12:17   - Nice, nice, it's an S tier now.

01:12:20   - Great.

01:12:21   - This has just been a timeline

01:12:25   that feels pretty elastic right now.

01:12:28   I feel like every couple of weeks,

01:12:29   there's something about like, is it this year?

01:12:31   Is it next year?

01:12:32   Is it this year?

01:12:33   Is it next year?

01:12:34   - The beauty of having an unannounced product

01:12:36   that doesn't replace any other product is,

01:12:39   it's ready when it's ready.

01:12:41   And they didn't promise anything.

01:12:44   They literally haven't announced it.

01:12:44   - Not yet they haven't.

01:12:46   So it's, this sounds to me like they're gearing up

01:12:49   to release a product, right?

01:12:50   And it's just a matter of when,

01:12:52   and that is to be determined.

01:12:54   But it sounds like they are,

01:12:56   they're going through all the steps,

01:12:57   so it's clear that there's gonna be a product.

01:12:59   The question is just what the details are,

01:13:01   and when does it happen,

01:13:02   and when does it announce, and when does it ship?

01:13:04   - And this, it puts the potential back on the table

01:13:09   for soft, like SDKs at WWDC.

01:13:13   You know, if all rumors indicate

01:13:15   that this is not a 2022 product,

01:13:18   then the likelihood of them talking about it at WWDC

01:13:21   slims down and it may then do what I think

01:13:23   they will do anyway, but have its own dedicated

01:13:25   software announcement event along with the hardware tease.

01:13:29   But if, you know, I think if there is still

01:13:34   the rumors are pointing to, oh no,

01:13:35   it actually is gonna come out at the end of this year,

01:13:38   then we could be in the situation where they could

01:13:40   actually talk about it at WWDC,

01:13:42   even though I still think they won't.

01:13:44   I think WWDC and the iPhone release

01:13:47   are the best times to talk about it.

01:13:48   And just remember the Apple watch was at an iPhone event

01:13:51   because it's the most watched event.

01:13:54   So in some ways it's the best place

01:13:55   to make a strategic announcement if you're Apple.

01:13:58   And they could do either of those

01:14:00   or have a standalone event.

01:14:01   I think if they're not shipping it soon,

01:14:04   a standalone event makes less sense.

01:14:07   But they've got room to play.

01:14:11   Like I think WWDC would be great, but who are we kidding?

01:14:14   if they announce a new platform in September and say it's going to ship by the end of the

01:14:19   year, the developers will still be paying attention.

01:14:23   - Especially when I think any developer that is somewhat serious thinks they might have

01:14:30   an application that could work for this and/or thinks they might have an idea. I mean, ARKit

01:14:36   exists. You can start doing base level work for what understanding what AR is, you know?

01:14:43   It's not like this is the Apple watch.

01:14:46   It's like, "Well, what can I do?

01:14:47   I can't do anything."

01:14:49   But with this, it's obviously not the same, exactly,

01:14:53   but you can start getting ahead on yourself

01:14:55   by understanding how an AR kit works.

01:14:59   - And they've been doing that for years now,

01:15:00   so a lot of them are already on top of it.

01:15:03   - And Sports Business Journal is reporting,

01:15:07   as many others have before,

01:15:08   but with a little bit more information potentially,

01:15:11   that Apple is still in talks with the NFL

01:15:14   to acquire the streaming rights to Sunday Ticket.

01:15:17   Amazon and Apple are apparently the front runners

01:15:20   for this deal, which would start in 2023.

01:15:23   - Yeah, Amazon has been aggressive on sports stuff.

01:15:26   They got the Thursday Night Football franchise from the NFL.

01:15:29   This is, Sunday Ticket is a premium service

01:15:33   that's been on DirecTV for a very long time,

01:15:36   where you can watch any game,

01:15:38   and not just the games that are airing in your local,

01:15:41   area because NFL games almost all run on Sundays in two-time slots. And if you're a fan of

01:15:48   a team from a far-off city, you can't watch it unless you pay for NFL Sunday Ticket, which

01:15:54   has been limited to people using satellite service, DirecTV. So Apple and Amazon are

01:16:00   both interested in it, which I think is interesting. We know Apple's interested in live sports,

01:16:06   they haven't done a lot.

01:16:07   This would be a very interesting question too about,

01:16:10   I imagine this would be a premium on top of,

01:16:13   or separate from Apple TV+,

01:16:15   which would be also fascinating, right?

01:16:17   A different subscription service potentially.

01:16:20   I used to be a Sunday Ticket subscriber.

01:16:22   It's a fun service that actually gets better

01:16:25   with more interactive features.

01:16:27   And like being able to put everything up in a box

01:16:30   and flip between games or have it auto flip between games.

01:16:34   And there's also the Red Zone Channel,

01:16:36   which is a channel you can tune in

01:16:38   that basically has an announcer who switches you

01:16:41   between games when interesting things are happening.

01:16:43   - That's fun.

01:16:45   - A lot of stuff that they could do there.

01:16:46   And then there are also some rumors

01:16:48   about Apple being involved

01:16:50   in a major league baseball conversation.

01:16:54   Some possibilities there include,

01:17:00   I saw a report that said that it could be

01:17:02   a kind of a whip around service like the NFL Red Zone,

01:17:06   which doesn't really exist right now,

01:17:08   where you basically have a channel that you can tune in

01:17:12   that is taking you between different baseball games

01:17:15   as they're going on.

01:17:16   And that might be a fun kind of product as well.

01:17:19   So Apple has not done any of this yet,

01:17:24   but is definitely in the running

01:17:25   for a bunch of live sports stuff.

01:17:27   - Do you think that there is any possibility

01:17:30   of them doing something like NFL Sunday Ticket

01:17:33   included in Apple TV+ as it currently is,

01:17:38   like as a way to bring more people in?

01:17:40   - It's gonna cost them a fortune to buy the thing,

01:17:43   but that's the question, right?

01:17:44   Is you could build a whole separate business on it

01:17:45   or you could roll it into Apple TV+

01:17:47   and use it as an inducement.

01:17:49   It would be, let me just say,

01:17:50   way cheaper than NFL Sunday Ticket currently goes for,

01:17:54   but they could do it.

01:17:55   - There was nothing from the article that

01:17:58   Disney is also in the running,

01:18:00   but is offering significantly less money than Amazon and Apple,

01:18:03   according to Sports Business Journal, for the Sunday ticket.

01:18:06   All right, saddle up.

01:18:11   That's the end of the round-up.

01:18:12   -All right, we're out of here.

01:18:14   We're going to ride off into the sunset.

01:18:15   -We're going to mosey away now. -Mm-hmm.

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01:20:05   We're going to finish out today, Jason, with some hashtag ask upgrade questions.

01:20:12   I wondered if there was going to be any kind of like, would the lasers turn into like gunfire

01:20:18   or something?

01:20:19   Like I wonder what it was going to be.

01:20:20   How did that horse get in here?

01:20:22   - The laser horse. - That's from the roundup.

01:20:23   - Laser horse.

01:20:24   Oh, did you just shoot at the horse?

01:20:26   Jason, oh my God.

01:20:28   Oh wait, I see the horse got away.

01:20:30   The horse got away. - They laser horses,

01:20:31   don't they? - Don't worry.

01:20:32   The horse got away.

01:20:33   Claude asks, "What do you use to uninstall

01:20:38   non App Store Mac apps?

01:20:41   And why doesn't Apple have a built-in uninstall utility

01:20:44   for applications?"

01:20:45   Do you remember AppSapper, Jason?

01:20:48   Do you remember AppSapper?

01:20:50   - Yeah.

01:20:50   - I was thinking about this recently.

01:20:51   What a wonderful piece of software.

01:20:53   - So here's the idea.

01:20:54   The idea is that an app keeps everything in its app package.

01:20:58   So you just delete the app package and it's deleted.

01:21:02   So that's what I do is if I uninstall an app,

01:21:05   what I do is you delete it.

01:21:06   Now I get it that sometimes there are things

01:21:08   that are more complex.

01:21:09   Ideally an app with more complex,

01:21:12   like files running in various places,

01:21:16   you can, you know, you should provide like an uninstaller

01:21:19   or something like that.

01:21:20   But most apps are not that complicated,

01:21:22   even if they're not in the Mac App Store.

01:21:23   Most apps live in their little bundle.

01:21:25   And yeah, they may have like a cache file somewhere

01:21:27   or preferences file somewhere.

01:21:29   Honestly, I would say given the size of storage these days,

01:21:33   don't worry about it.

01:21:34   And also it means that if you delete that app

01:21:36   and want it back later, your preferences will still be there

01:21:39   and so it'll all still work when you re-download it.

01:21:41   So I don't, honestly, I don't sweat it,

01:21:43   but that's why Apple doesn't have

01:21:44   built-in uninstall utility is it does actually it's the it's the trash you

01:21:50   drag the app into the trash that's it I'm getting some suggestions from the

01:21:56   discord Justin Hamilton suggests hazel is an application that when you know

01:22:00   like is an application that when you delete something it'll say hey here's

01:22:03   some stuff that you could also delete which is cool and Emma uses an

01:22:06   application called app cleaner for these reasons yeah because they're sometimes

01:22:10   it just isn't that simple it just is I understand what you're saying Jason but

01:22:13   sometimes there are apps that you do wanna get rid of.

01:22:16   It's not, I don't feel like I need this.

01:22:19   I do what you do.

01:22:20   I just drag it out.

01:22:21   - Yeah, the challenge is,

01:22:23   are the cleaner apps really getting everything?

01:22:25   And mostly what this is an issue for

01:22:28   is something that's like,

01:22:30   it's asked you for your password to install something down

01:22:32   somewhere in the system where it's running a thing

01:22:36   in the background when you start up or something like that.

01:22:38   And ideally that would have an uninstaller.

01:22:42   If these apps can help with that, that's great.

01:22:45   You could also use a utility like Lingon,

01:22:50   which looks at your whole, like,

01:22:53   automatic task set on your Mac,

01:22:59   and you can remove all those startup things

01:23:02   or uncheck them. - What is this?

01:23:03   What is that? - Lingon, L-I-N-G-O-N,

01:23:05   like Lingonberries. - Okay.

01:23:07   - Lingon X, it's by Peter Borg.

01:23:11   And that's actually what I use,

01:23:13   'cause you can also use it to schedule stuff.

01:23:15   It's like a Cron jobs and system jobs and all of that.

01:23:19   But it's the same thing.

01:23:21   So anyway, there are ways.

01:23:25   And I don't doubt that there are apps

01:23:28   where you wanna do a little more work.

01:23:30   But again, I will just say,

01:23:32   the size of our hard drives

01:23:33   and really the power of our computers,

01:23:36   I think you can get way too obsessed

01:23:39   with cleanup on your computer

01:23:41   when it's not really necessary.

01:23:44   And then in most cases, if you delete the app,

01:23:47   you've uninstalled it.

01:23:49   - Mork wants to know, don't do it again, Jason.

01:23:53   Do you think- - Shot his butt.

01:23:56   - Oh, he did it.

01:23:57   Do you think the touch bar would still be with us?

01:24:00   It kind of is, but you know,

01:24:02   if it was something closer to the stream deck,

01:24:05   a row of dynamic physical keys

01:24:08   that adapted to the context of what you were doing.

01:24:11   - Yeah, so yes, two things here.

01:24:13   One is, yes, the biggest condemnation of the Stream Deck

01:24:17   is not from the people on the outside

01:24:19   who said the Stream Deck is dumb.

01:24:20   It's from inside Apple,

01:24:22   'cause Apple never made any attempt

01:24:24   to make the Touch Bar better.

01:24:25   They never did, they never did.

01:24:28   Stream Deck, the software's not that great, right?

01:24:32   But Stream Deck lets you assign tasks to the keys

01:24:38   And from that, you can run scripts and stuff like that,

01:24:41   and you can kind of get out into the wider world.

01:24:43   And although you could modify the Touch Bar to do that

01:24:46   with something like Better Touch Tool,

01:24:48   Apple never made, beyond like adding some

01:24:52   finder services shortcuts that you could put in the Touch Bar

01:24:55   like Apple never made any attempt to make the Touch Bar

01:25:00   a general purpose set of assignable macros.

01:25:06   They like, instead they said,

01:25:08   oh, every app is gonna do it,

01:25:09   but the user isn't gonna be involved.

01:25:12   I think it was a huge mistake.

01:25:13   They misconceived it and they never corrected it.

01:25:17   So yes, if you could have done something

01:25:20   like what we can do with the Stream Deck

01:25:22   to have a user completely program the touch bar

01:25:26   and had it be part of macOS

01:25:28   or had it be open to third parties

01:25:31   in an actual usable legal way,

01:25:35   which BetterTouchTool was kind of a hack

01:25:38   and it's amazing what it could do,

01:25:39   but it was super hacky and not as nice

01:25:42   as it should have been, not their fault.

01:25:44   It's the fault of Apple for forcing them to do it that way.

01:25:47   But yeah, Stream Deck shows that something like Touch Bar

01:25:51   could have been better.

01:25:52   And then what Mork also says here is a row of physical keys

01:25:56   that adapted to the context of what you're doing.

01:25:58   That's the other problem with Touch Bar

01:26:00   was you couldn't feel for it because it was a flat surface.

01:26:03   And Stream Deck, those are buttons.

01:26:06   You can feel them, you can use them,

01:26:08   you can navigate by feel,

01:26:09   you can find the bottom left corner

01:26:12   and then count over two buttons and press the button.

01:26:14   Like you can do all of that.

01:26:16   And you had to look at the touch bar.

01:26:19   So I think that would have made the touch bar more useful.

01:26:22   I'm not entirely,

01:26:24   other than the fact that Apple's been burned,

01:26:26   like I would love to see Apple experiment

01:26:28   with the idea of something

01:26:28   where it was more like a dynamic function key,

01:26:31   where it was a function key with a little screen beneath it

01:26:34   and it could change

01:26:37   and it would actually change the look of the key.

01:26:39   I don't think they're gonna do that

01:26:40   because I think that they've been burned

01:26:42   and they've stopped trying to innovate on the keyboard

01:26:44   and maybe we should all just be relieved that they have.

01:26:47   But yes, absolutely.

01:26:49   If something like the Stream Deck can get people excited

01:26:52   with the software that is really not that great,

01:26:55   but it enables a lot,

01:26:56   imagine what would have happened if Apple had allowed,

01:26:59   either built it themselves or allowed third parties

01:27:01   to really get in there and play with the touch bar.

01:27:04   But they didn't, and now it's gone, almost.

01:27:08   - I don't think forever though.

01:27:09   'Cause I do think that idea, the idea was a good one.

01:27:14   And even if they do end up doing what you've suggested

01:27:16   or like this rumor that we might talk about

01:27:18   in a future episode of just like,

01:27:20   it's all screen baby, the whole thing, you know?

01:27:23   Like at some point I think the idea of this is a area

01:27:28   area of the keyboard which is dynamic and gives you what you need it was a

01:27:33   good idea just not very well executed for various reasons. Yeah I would be a

01:27:40   big fan of replacing the F keys with keys that could be programmable because

01:27:48   the great thing about the stream deck is you have keys and then the labels

01:27:55   will change based on your context. And I think if Apple did something like that, and what's funny

01:28:01   about it is that Apple already sort of has taken a step in this direction, right? Because Apple has

01:28:07   stolen the F keys and instead made them hardware control keys, and then you have to press the globe

01:28:12   or the function key in order to get back to the traditional F keys. And then they've started to

01:28:17   label them. And one of the nice things about a programmable set of F keys is that you could show,

01:28:23   this is volume up, this is volume down, and yet in a different context it could show something

01:28:28   different. That would be really interesting, but again it would require Apple to try and

01:28:33   reinvent the function row again, and I wonder if they're going to leave that for a while because

01:28:41   they had this whole touch bar thing and it was a flop, and so are they going to go back there and

01:28:48   and take another run at it or not, I don't know.

01:28:50   - Not H.G. asks, "In which tab in photos

01:28:55   "do you usually view your photos?"

01:28:57   Are you in the library?

01:28:59   Are you in the album?

01:29:00   Or is it For You is another one, right?

01:29:02   Is that?

01:29:03   - Yeah.

01:29:04   - For me, I've stuck to like what I know,

01:29:07   what it used to be, like what it always was.

01:29:09   Albums, Recents.

01:29:11   That's where I like to view my images.

01:29:13   Because sometimes if I look in the other tabs,

01:29:16   it can sort things chronologically, which isn't always necessarily the way that I want

01:29:20   it, right? Like, as in, like, actual date chronologically. Like, imagine that I've saved

01:29:24   something from some—like, someone sent me, right? Then it might actually—if I go in

01:29:29   the other tab, it wouldn't be my most recent image. It could actually be three weeks ago

01:29:32   or whatever. So I like albums, recents. That's where I view all my images is what I'm used

01:29:38   to, is what I like.

01:29:39   It's perfectly reasonable. I just use the library. Your way is probably better, but

01:29:43   that's not what I do. I generally I just use library. It's not about better. It's

01:29:47   just what I'm used to. I don't think it's better necessarily, you know. No, I think

01:29:51   it might be. I think for what the reasons you said of not having something that

01:29:54   sorts further up and it's it's you you just want to get the thing you just

01:29:59   added and it's like why is it not right here and the answer is well it's a

01:30:02   little higher up. I don't know. I just use the library straight up. I will give

01:30:06   you a bit of long-term follow-up that all of the problems I had with the

01:30:10   images sharing thing remain. I still have images that go back months and

01:30:17   months and months that Adina sent me when she was at home and I was at the

01:30:20   studio. I have images here I'm looking at, like pictures that were sent

01:30:25   to me back from June 2020 that I haven't saved to my library and they've still

01:30:29   got that speech bubble on them. That feature just never really worked for me

01:30:34   and I've left it on but I still don't think it's what I want.

01:30:38   Lastly, Franken asks, on the Mac, what quick settings take up real estate in your menu

01:30:45   bar and which ones do you keep in control center?

01:30:47   So as a refresher in control center, you can drag things out of control center and put

01:30:52   them in the menu bar.

01:30:54   For me, focus and the sound, I dragged them out and left them out.

01:31:00   Everything else I've kept in there.

01:31:01   I experimented a while, I put Bluetooth up there or whatever, but ultimately control

01:31:06   Center was perfectly fine. What about you? Have there been any that have found their

01:31:11   way out of Control Center? On my iMac, nothing. Okay. On my MacBook Air, Wi-Fi, and battery

01:31:21   are both up there. Oh yeah, battery, battery, yeah I've moved that out on my laptop. I'm

01:31:29   looking on my iMac right now, so obviously I don't have battery on my iMac. I actually

01:31:36   - I do because I have a UPS.

01:31:37   - Oh, and it shows him the control center for battery?

01:31:41   - Yeah.

01:31:42   - Oh, that's cool.

01:31:43   - There's a little USB thing that comes out of most UPSs

01:31:44   and you plug them in and it allows it to communicate

01:31:46   with the Mac and tell it,

01:31:48   it can tell it how much battery it's got

01:31:49   and the Mac can use that setting.

01:31:51   If you haven't done this,

01:31:53   if you have a UPS and a desktop Mac,

01:31:55   it will show up if you attach its little USB thing

01:31:59   and it allows the Mac to do things

01:32:01   like when the power is out,

01:32:03   when does the Mac shut down?

01:32:05   And so you can say like keep running until the UPS battery

01:32:10   is down at 10% or whatever, and then auto shut down.

01:32:13   So it'll actually work with the UPS,

01:32:14   be aware of how much power is still left in the UPS battery.

01:32:18   So if I click on control center right now on my iMac,

01:32:21   I have a little battery indicator that says 100%.

01:32:24   - Hmm.

01:32:25   - Yeah, it's kind of fun.

01:32:26   But anyway, I don't have any of those.

01:32:27   I've got a lot of menu bar items up there,

01:32:29   but they're the ones that I've chosen to be there

01:32:31   and they're not the standard Apple ones.

01:32:34   And then, but on my Mac, on my MacBook Air, it makes sense to like have quick

01:32:38   access to wifi and battery.

01:32:39   If you would like to send in a question of your own, you could just send out a

01:32:42   tweet with the hashtag #askupgrade.

01:32:44   There you go.

01:32:45   It's not Snell Talk, it's #askupgrade.

01:32:46   Uh, or you can use question mark ask upgrade in the relay FM members discord.

01:32:51   We'll be back next week.

01:32:54   Who knows what day, maybe by the time you're hearing this, you'll know.

01:32:58   I mean, honestly, if you're listening to this episode, like late Tuesday or

01:33:03   Wednesday and they have not announced an event, right, then it's, you know, we're back on

01:33:08   Monday.

01:33:09   Yes, a lot of listeners of Upgrade will have gotten to this point and they'll either not

01:33:14   think this is an unusual draft at all or they'll be very, they'll be laughing at us basically.

01:33:20   So be it.

01:33:21   So be it.

01:33:22   But the draft is locked in, as they say.

01:33:25   Nobody says that, but they could say that.

01:33:27   Oh, there was more.

01:33:29   Apparently lasers lock the draft as well.

01:33:31   Yes, sometimes.

01:33:33   And the draft is now solidified until it's cast, concrete has been poured on it.

01:33:39   The die is cast.

01:33:41   And the concrete has been poured on it until we smash it open.

01:33:44   And who knows, we could smash it open next week or it might be smashed open in three

01:33:48   weeks or just sent out to sea.

01:33:51   I don't know what this metaphor is that I'm building right now.

01:33:54   I don't know what things are cast and then put in concrete and then sent out to sea.

01:33:57   But I don't know.

01:33:58   You know, this is just stuff that I'm talking about.

01:34:01   If you would like to find us online, you can go to sixcolors.com for Jason.

01:34:05   You can go to @jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L, that's also Jason.

01:34:09   I'm @imyke.

01:34:11   I would like to thank our sponsors of this week's episode, that is Memberful, Zocdoc,

01:34:16   Ooni and Smile.

01:34:17   I would like to thank you all for listening, and especially to our Upgrade Plus supporters

01:34:23   who get longer ad-free episodes.

01:34:26   Thank you for supporting the show.

01:34:27   We'll be back next time.

01:34:29   Until then, say goodbye to Jason Snow.

01:34:31   Goodbye Mark Hurley.

01:34:33   [MUSIC PLAYING]