395: This App May Kill You


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Real AFM, this is Upgrade, episode 395. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14   Electric, Capital One, and Memoform. My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined by

00:00:18   Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow.

00:00:19   Hi, Myke Hurley. US Route 395 runs on the back side of the Sierra Nevada

00:00:24   portion of California that people don't think of as California, because it's on

00:00:28   It's on the other side of the mountains.

00:00:29   Most borders are placed up at the peaks of mountains,

00:00:32   but when they formed California, there was no Nevada.

00:00:35   And California said, "We want all the mountains.

00:00:37   We want all the mountains 'cause there's gold,

00:00:39   gold in those mountains."

00:00:40   - Let me tell you, Jason Snell,

00:00:42   I've heard enough about American roads

00:00:44   to last me for a long while.

00:00:46   - Tell you about the numbering system now.

00:00:48   - That's what I'm talking about.

00:00:49   I was actually editing an episode of "Cortex"

00:00:51   before we started today, so.

00:00:52   - Oh yeah, yeah.

00:00:53   Anyway, 395, it's back there.

00:00:55   It's that, that's one of my things

00:00:56   that I actually really love about California

00:00:58   is that it's got this very weird thing

00:01:00   where there's the whole other part,

00:01:01   that's the dry, deserty part

00:01:03   that's on the other side of the mountains,

00:01:04   that like, why is that still California?

00:01:06   And the answer is, 'cause California got to pick first,

00:01:08   and they're like, I'll take all the mountains.

00:01:10   Like, if they're gold in the mountains,

00:01:12   we will take the mountains then.

00:01:14   And so, you can drive on 395, if you like.

00:01:17   - We are recording this episode a few days earlier

00:01:21   than we normally would.

00:01:21   We're recording on Thursday the 17th,

00:01:23   'cause Jason's gonna be away.

00:01:25   Myke, did you read that Mark Gurman Sunday newsletter?

00:01:27   Woo, wow.

00:01:29   - But that's the thing.

00:01:29   - What revelations were in there?

00:01:31   Oh man, amazing.

00:01:33   - I don't know what could happen between now and Monday,

00:01:35   but things can happen.

00:01:36   - It's a little pre-record here.

00:01:38   - I have a hashtag snow talk question for you

00:01:40   from instantiate this who asks,

00:01:42   Jason, if you were in a car chase with the police,

00:01:45   what song do you put on to keep you going?

00:01:48   - Am I chasing the police?

00:01:50   Are we in a joint effort to chase someone else

00:01:53   or are they chasing me?

00:01:54   It's just her taste with the police.

00:01:55   - The interpretation is completely up to you.

00:01:58   Are you with them?

00:01:59   Are you against them?

00:02:00   You know, it doesn't matter.

00:02:00   - I'm choosing that I am with them

00:02:02   and we are in an 80s movie or TV show.

00:02:07   And so the montage as we chase is going to be

00:02:11   The Heat Is On by Glenn Frey.

00:02:14   - Ooh, that's good.

00:02:16   That is good.

00:02:17   (mimics music)

00:02:20   - That's gonna be it.

00:02:21   That's how I choose to answer this question.

00:02:23   - This is a good answer and also a good song.

00:02:25   - I mean, it is what it is,

00:02:27   but I think it fits the mood of the 80s car chase

00:02:31   that is going on there.

00:02:32   There'll be a lot of like peeling out

00:02:34   where like you'll go around the corner

00:02:36   and the car will slide a little bit and then keep going.

00:02:39   And there'll be like a pedestrian carrying up a sack,

00:02:44   like a grocery sack and they'll step into the intersection

00:02:48   and then have to step back and their bread will be ejected.

00:02:51   - And then there'll be two people

00:02:52   carrying a pane of glass. Always, and then of course it'll end in a smashed up

00:02:57   fruit cart because whenever you see a fruit cart it's gonna get smashed. It's

00:03:02   gonna get tumbled. If you'd like to send in a question to help us open the

00:03:05   show just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snelltalk or use question mark

00:03:08   #snelltalk in the Relay FM members discord. Jason Snell, pro sideloading.

00:03:14   I don't know if I'm ready to come out and say Apple should just allow

00:03:20   side loading, like anybody can just load any app onto their iOS device, I think it's worth

00:03:25   considering that as a possibility. What I wanted to do is, I wrote this Macworld article

00:03:29   that was basically trying to think of the App Store being better if the App Store doesn't

00:03:37   have to be the judge, jury, and executioner for everything on a platform. And that was

00:03:41   kind of the thought I had. And it led me to a place where basically I thought it was interesting,

00:03:50   is consider what the iOS app store might be like if a rejection didn't mean the app would

00:03:57   never be seen.

00:03:59   If Apple could, if there was always an alternative and how would that affect the iOS app store?

00:04:08   And I thought it might make it better.

00:04:12   I think it actually might be a better experience if you look at what they do with the Mac app

00:04:17   store and how the Mac works, that the iOS app store might actually be a better place

00:04:23   if it wasn't the, you know, the damn holding back every possible bit of software from coming

00:04:30   to the platform.

00:04:31   I found that an interesting take when I was reading your article because I hadn't really

00:04:35   considered it that way because like one of the things that you say is about like Apple

00:04:43   being able to be more of a curator again if they don't have to accept everything like

00:04:49   that there are types of applications that they have to accept but they're not really

00:04:56   the type of thing that they would want to accept or should.

00:05:00   And I don't want to get I was accused by a few people it's funny because everybody comes

00:05:05   with their own preconceptions so I heard from people who have written extensively about

00:05:11   Apple's failings in the App Store who wanted me, you know, to like, it was really funny

00:05:17   and I heard from angry developers who are like frustrated with Apple's rules on the

00:05:22   Mac App Store and so they don't like the fact that I suggest the Mac App Store was better

00:05:26   than the iOS App Store in some ways because they're like, "No, it's all a sham."

00:05:29   That's an interesting read because what you're saying is the Mac is better, not the Mac App

00:05:32   Store is better. The Mac is better because you have choice. One of those choices is the

00:05:36   App Store.

00:05:37   - The pressure on the Mac app,

00:05:39   the Mac app store does not have,

00:05:41   does not decide winners and losers on the Mac, right?

00:05:45   The Mac app store is a place

00:05:47   and it's a good place for marketing

00:05:49   and it may drive sales, although again,

00:05:52   it's not as powerful as the iOS app store at all,

00:05:54   but it is a place to be if you wanna be there,

00:05:58   but if you don't wanna be there, it's fine.

00:06:00   And on iOS, it's a different situation.

00:06:03   So when I hear from people who are like,

00:06:05   Like I said, sideloading is probably less secure

00:06:10   than what we have now,

00:06:12   but that Apple makes it seem like it's incredibly insecure

00:06:17   and Apple has already demonstrated on the Mac

00:06:19   that they can make it way more secure than that,

00:06:21   but they wanna make this extreme argument.

00:06:23   And I heard from some people

00:06:25   who are on the other side of that argument

00:06:26   who wanted to say, no, don't say it's less secure.

00:06:30   It could be just as secure.

00:06:32   And like, I don't actually agree with that.

00:06:36   I think that fundamentally it would be less secure,

00:06:39   but I don't think, but I think Apple overstates it.

00:06:42   And the truth is what the people I'm hearing from

00:06:44   are the people who want to counter Apple's extreme statement

00:06:47   with their own extreme statement

00:06:49   in order to have this kind of rhetorical battle.

00:06:52   And I'm not interested in playing that battle.

00:06:54   I'm not gonna do that.

00:06:56   I do think you have to acknowledge that

00:06:58   allowing random apps on the platform

00:07:01   is probably gonna be less secure than the App Store.

00:07:04   Although I'll also grant you the App Store

00:07:06   on iOS allows stuff that's bad, right?

00:07:09   That's part of the problem is--

00:07:10   - There are scams.

00:07:11   - There's scammy stuff and bad stuff

00:07:13   that doesn't get caught.

00:07:14   My point was though that Apple has built up

00:07:16   this whole infrastructure on the Mac side

00:07:18   involving you've gotta sign up with a developer ID

00:07:21   and it has to be notarized.

00:07:22   And like they can do stuff that's not App Store approval

00:07:25   that still is sort of a verification process

00:07:28   before the product is loaded onto their platform, right?

00:07:31   They could still do all of that, and they could still pull the plug if something is

00:07:36   bad, right?

00:07:37   And if something turns out to be malware, they can kill it.

00:07:39   They do that on the Mac now.

00:07:40   So it's, I think, disingenuous when Apple puts out these white papers about the dangers

00:07:44   of sideloading.

00:07:45   I think they overstate it.

00:07:47   And I think they also overstate the idea that this stuff would be popular, because I think

00:07:53   we've learned the lesson of what happened with Fortnite on Android, where they weren't

00:07:58   in the Play Store and they wanna be in the Play Store.

00:08:02   They do, they're gonna make more sales on the Play Store

00:08:04   than try to walk through somebody.

00:08:06   Or Facebook, if Facebook, I heard from some people who said,

00:08:10   "Oh, but if you do sideloading,

00:08:11   "then Facebook will just make their gross apps

00:08:13   "that spy on you, require for sideloading."

00:08:16   It's like, I don't know, Facebook is gonna lose

00:08:19   a lot of users if it's not in the App Store.

00:08:21   So I think Facebook, see that's Apple's leverage

00:08:25   is you really wanna be in the App Store.

00:08:28   but it's different if you don't have to be.

00:08:31   - 'Cause Facebook's in the Play Store.

00:08:33   Like they haven't set up their whole,

00:08:35   like they're not like,

00:08:36   oh, we have to be outside of the Play Store.

00:08:39   - And like we talked about last week,

00:08:40   Apple's gonna have their warnings that say,

00:08:42   if you do this, you'll die.

00:08:43   Basically, right?

00:08:45   Like don't, sideloading leads to death.

00:08:47   Don't do it.

00:08:48   And then you have to tap the button that says,

00:08:50   let me die.

00:08:51   And then it's like, okay, fine, sideload.

00:08:54   Jump off a bridge then.

00:08:54   - I'm a bus developer, not to kill me.

00:08:57   - Yeah, yeah.

00:08:58   but they might kill you.

00:09:00   So that's just too bad for you.

00:09:02   So they're gonna do all of that and they're scare,

00:09:04   they're scare tactics and all of that to do it.

00:09:07   But my larger point about the App Store is,

00:09:08   I think once the App Store is not the judge

00:09:10   jury and executioner, it actually frees Apple up

00:09:13   if they want to be, and this is the question, right?

00:09:14   'Cause they haven't stopped these scam apps.

00:09:16   But I'm choosing to be a little optimistic here

00:09:18   that an App Store that's freed

00:09:20   from being judge jury and executioner

00:09:22   could actually more freely reject things

00:09:26   and say, we don't want this kind of app,

00:09:27   or we don't want your app,

00:09:29   because they're not gonna get the bad publicity.

00:09:31   Oh no, App Store ruins app, this app will never be seen.

00:09:34   It's like, no, then it becomes a story that's more like,

00:09:36   Apple chooses what it wants to highlight

00:09:39   and put in its own storefront,

00:09:41   you're free to sell it elsewhere.

00:09:43   And I think that that is an actually important point,

00:09:48   that the App Store, I think some of the behavior

00:09:52   that Apple has in the App Store on iOS

00:09:54   is distorted by the fact that it's going to either be bad publicity if they reject it,

00:10:00   or it's something they don't like but they feel they need on the platform. And you know,

00:10:05   we talk a lot about things like the Xbox streaming service being kind of not allowed on the platform

00:10:12   because it doesn't fit with Apple's stand. But I would imagine there are some apps that Apple

00:10:17   allows on the platform even though it doesn't like it politically, because the alternative is that

00:10:22   it's not on their platform and Apple isn't just a curator of software. Apple's the maker

00:10:27   of the platform and sells the phones. And so sometimes they make decisions that are

00:10:31   more about the value of the platform. And maybe that calculation would change a little

00:10:34   bit if they were more free to say, just put this out yourself. It's not going to be in

00:10:40   our app store, but you can just put it out yourself. Even though I know you're behind

00:10:44   the scary dialogue box then, and you're not going to get the kind of impressions. And

00:10:48   And then my other point is also that interesting stuff

00:10:52   happens outside the App Store on the Mac.

00:10:54   And that makes the platform more valuable.

00:10:57   Like there's no emulators on Mac App Store,

00:11:02   but you can do emulators on the Mac.

00:11:04   And I mean like Windows emulators and all,

00:11:06   like all of that stuff, virtualization.

00:11:08   There's all sorts of stuff that just doesn't fit

00:11:09   in the Mac App Store that's out there.

00:11:12   And it adds value to the platform, right?

00:11:15   And Apple doesn't even have to have it in the App Store.

00:11:18   And then there's this other class,

00:11:19   and I did get some pushback about this too,

00:11:21   which is Apple also,

00:11:23   especially when Phil Schiller came back

00:11:24   and was in charge of the app store again,

00:11:28   he made an effort to get some larger developers

00:11:31   into the Mac app store,

00:11:33   and some high profile apps that were out

00:11:35   and to pull them back in and make changes or exceptions.

00:11:39   And I heard from developers who were like,

00:11:41   "That was all for show.

00:11:42   They showed favoritism and gave exceptions to these people

00:11:46   to get them in the store."

00:11:47   And I understand that that's frustrating

00:11:50   and that maybe I am being too optimistic

00:11:52   in saying Apple will change in order to make things better

00:11:55   if they observe that there are good things on the outside

00:11:58   that they want in.

00:11:59   But the fact remains, Apple did make an effort

00:12:02   to get things that were outside the App Store in.

00:12:05   And that I think there's a possibility

00:12:07   that Apple will look at something that is so popular

00:12:10   that people are turning off the,

00:12:12   or turning on the sideloading and you may die provision

00:12:15   in order to get it and say, interesting,

00:12:17   could that work in the App Store

00:12:19   and maybe change their mind about something

00:12:21   because they realize that it has some value?

00:12:24   Again, maybe I'm being too optimistic,

00:12:26   but what I'm trying to do is see beyond the argument

00:12:28   about like sideloading yes or no,

00:12:30   and sort of like imagine what would that be like?

00:12:33   And I really do think that the iOS App Store

00:12:36   would be better if it wasn't a death sentence

00:12:39   if they rejected your app, I really do.

00:12:42   - I'm completely in agreement with all of this.

00:12:44   I've been pro side loading for like a year now.

00:12:48   It just came to a point when all this antitrust stuff

00:12:50   started coming to a head where I was just like,

00:12:52   I don't understand why they don't just do this.

00:12:55   And I know they won't.

00:12:56   Like I feel very confident in that.

00:12:58   I feel like over the last few months,

00:13:00   a thing that I keep coming back to is,

00:13:03   I really want Apple to do something

00:13:06   before they're forced to.

00:13:07   My thinking for that is that what I would expect them to do

00:13:12   is maybe to make some changes to the 30%.

00:13:15   That is becoming less and less likely

00:13:17   after the Dutch thing to me,

00:13:19   like in my mind of like what they will and won't do.

00:13:22   But I feel like the one they are least likely to do

00:13:25   on their own now is sideloading,

00:13:27   just because of their rhetoric,

00:13:28   which is, as you say, like, if we allow sideloading,

00:13:32   all of our phones will just implode.

00:13:34   It's impossible, they will be destroyed, you know?

00:13:37   Like something will get inside of them

00:13:39   and kill all the phones.

00:13:40   Like this is a point what they're saying.

00:13:42   And I just, so to me, like I can't imagine them now

00:13:47   turning around, even in true Apple style and being like,

00:13:50   hey, we've worked out how to do this.

00:13:52   Because it's not gonna be, if they do,

00:13:54   if they are forced to do this,

00:13:56   which I think is actually becoming more likely,

00:13:59   like some of the laws that are in, I've been,

00:14:01   I pay attention to Ben Thompson,

00:14:04   most of this kind of stuff,

00:14:05   because he reads the things so I don't have to.

00:14:09   Those laws that we were talking about

00:14:10   that were passing through Senate committees

00:14:12   have been changing and seem to be getting better.

00:14:15   And like something might happen here,

00:14:17   which is odd and strange,

00:14:19   and it's not gonna go well if they're forced to do it.

00:14:21   Like it's just not good.

00:14:22   We've seen this, you know,

00:14:24   we're seeing this already around the world, right?

00:14:26   That they are,

00:14:27   Apple are not following the spirit of decisions, right?

00:14:33   They are trying to weasel their way through them instead.

00:14:38   And so I just, even though, as you said,

00:14:42   they have a proven model for this,

00:14:45   that they have run for how long?

00:14:48   20 years, 30 years, which is the Mac, right?

00:14:51   - Right.

00:14:52   - The way Mac software works.

00:14:53   And then maybe for the last 10 years or whatever,

00:14:55   with the Mac App Store.

00:14:57   How long has the Mac App Store been around?

00:14:58   - 14 years.

00:14:59   - 14 years. - Oh, the Mac App Store.

00:15:00   - Yeah.

00:15:01   - Yeah, 10 years, eight years. - Say 10 years.

00:15:04   And that system, and they've only made it stronger

00:15:06   and stronger over time, right?

00:15:08   in the way that they're doing things.

00:15:09   Where we have this app store,

00:15:11   you put it through here and it's all taken care of.

00:15:13   Or if you want to distribute outside,

00:15:14   you've got to do this,

00:15:15   and then you've got to do this,

00:15:16   and then you've got to do this, right?

00:15:17   And it's like, notarize this way,

00:15:19   and you've got to do this.

00:15:20   And then if you want to do a kernel extension,

00:15:22   well now it's going to be a whole big thing, right?

00:15:24   So they are actually continuing

00:15:26   to make Mac software distribution safer for consumers.

00:15:31   - Right, outside of the Mac App Store.

00:15:34   - Exactly, from outside of the Mac App Store.

00:15:36   at the same time that they're saying,

00:15:38   well, I mean, you can't do it on the phone.

00:15:39   I mean, what, just is, it's impossible.

00:15:42   There is no safe way to do it.

00:15:45   It's just such a, it's so strange.

00:15:46   It's like, are you familiar with the phrase,

00:15:48   like talking out two sides of your face?

00:15:50   - Yes, sure.

00:15:51   - This is what they're doing when it comes to sideloading

00:15:53   and I find it very peculiar.

00:15:55   - I don't know the truth of what's going on inside Apple,

00:15:59   but I believe that this entire Mac thing

00:16:05   is being done with an eye toward what they would have to do

00:16:09   if they did it on iOS, right?

00:16:11   - Oh, for sure, yeah.

00:16:12   - Right, I feel like they wanna make Mac OS more secure

00:16:16   and more like iOS, I get that,

00:16:19   but they gotta also be thinking,

00:16:21   what if we were forced to do this on iOS?

00:16:24   Because this is what they would do.

00:16:25   - Even though I have such little faith in them

00:16:28   for some of this stuff recently,

00:16:30   I know that there's smart people over there, obviously,

00:16:33   So I refuse to believe they do not have people

00:16:36   coming up with systems.

00:16:38   - It may be a wink, wink, nudge, nudge thing too.

00:16:40   It's like, yes, for the Mac, we're going to do,

00:16:43   you know, signed and we're gonna have it notarized

00:16:47   and like, yes, that is for the Mac, right?

00:16:51   The Mac.

00:16:52   But that in the background, they're like,

00:16:53   well, if we need to do this on iOS,

00:16:54   this is how we're gonna do it.

00:16:55   And so it's there.

00:16:57   And there are other tactics that are not yet on the Mac.

00:17:01   Like the Mac, you can do anything, right?

00:17:04   You can literally run anything.

00:17:06   Apple, it depends on what the laws are,

00:17:08   but Apple could say, you know, you can't run anything.

00:17:12   You have to have it signed.

00:17:13   Like we have to, for security reasons, have it signed.

00:17:16   And if the laws, - I would prefer that.

00:17:18   - If the laws that force them to do this say,

00:17:20   that's okay, like to stop malware and to whatever else,

00:17:23   we'll let you do this notarization system.

00:17:25   But if, but you know, basically you're gonna get sued

00:17:28   if you use it as a de facto approval process.

00:17:31   you need to just be looking at it for security reasons,

00:17:33   but they could do that

00:17:34   and then not have completely unsigned random things

00:17:38   able to run, they could do that.

00:17:40   - I guess they're moving that way

00:17:41   for the Mac now though, right?

00:17:43   Like, is it not coming?

00:17:46   - Well, no, so the Mac,

00:17:48   and I had somebody from Apple tell me,

00:17:51   or actually, no, it was in a session.

00:17:53   Somebody at Apple said,

00:17:54   you will never not be able to run software

00:17:57   you want to run on the Mac.

00:17:59   What you have to do is go through those dialogue boxes

00:18:02   that say, "You may die."

00:18:03   And then you click on that app and it goes,

00:18:05   "This app may kill you."

00:18:07   So we're not gonna let you,

00:18:08   you should probably put it in the trash.

00:18:11   Before it explodes, you should put it in the trashcan.

00:18:14   And then you go in and you have to set your settings

00:18:17   and you have to like right click and choose open

00:18:19   and get another thing that says,

00:18:20   "I told you this might explode and you may die.

00:18:23   "Do you want to die?"

00:18:25   And then you go, "Okay."

00:18:26   And then it runs, right?

00:18:28   So you can do it, but they put the barriers there,

00:18:30   but you can do it.

00:18:31   On iOS, depending on what the laws are forcing them to do,

00:18:35   they could say, "Well, we're not gonna do that.

00:18:37   It has to be signed.

00:18:39   It has to be notarized.

00:18:41   We're not gonna let it run

00:18:42   if we don't know anything about what it is."

00:18:45   And as a user, the fact is,

00:18:47   there are whole classes of apps that don't run on iOS,

00:18:49   that I would like to run on iOS.

00:18:51   I have an Apple II emulator on my Mac, right?

00:18:53   It's great.

00:18:54   And none of that stuff,

00:18:56   the dolphin emulator that you can put on iOS,

00:18:59   but it's really hard to do

00:19:01   and then play old Nintendo games and stuff.

00:19:04   Like, I understand legally why Apple

00:19:07   doesn't allow that stuff in the App Store,

00:19:09   but it makes the platform worse.

00:19:11   And, you know, so there's all sorts of stuff

00:19:14   that I think could function outside of the App Store

00:19:17   that would be worth it for some people to install.

00:19:20   And I'd like to see that.

00:19:21   But I also think that the App Store,

00:19:24   freed of the bad publicity of rejecting apps,

00:19:27   I actually kind of like the idea that the app store

00:19:30   might be a little bolder in rejecting apps.

00:19:33   'Cause I know this is like a wild thing to say,

00:19:35   but like there's a lot of apps in the app store

00:19:37   that should have been rejected that are bad,

00:19:39   that are like bad.

00:19:40   Not, I'm not saying like apps that it's all

00:19:43   a misunderstanding, but like that are bad

00:19:45   that I believe really do get in

00:19:46   because Apple has this hands-off attitude.

00:19:49   I know all the indie developers get the hands on them

00:19:51   because they're trying to do interesting things,

00:19:53   but there's a lot of garbage that just goes through

00:19:55   that maybe in another scenario,

00:19:57   Apple would be like, "Bah, we're cleaning up."

00:19:59   Maybe I'm being that,

00:20:00   if I'm being too optimistic about anything,

00:20:02   that is the thing,

00:20:03   which is maybe that Apple would take more care

00:20:06   with the App Store

00:20:07   because it may be true based on the evidence

00:20:09   that we've seen so far

00:20:10   that Apple just doesn't want to exert any effort

00:20:12   on the App Store.

00:20:13   But I would hope that if the App Store had competition,

00:20:16   the App Store might actually need to get its act together

00:20:18   a little bit more.

00:20:19   I don't know.

00:20:20   I think it was a fun way of thinking of it,

00:20:24   to imagine that world where the App Store

00:20:26   is no longer the end all be all,

00:20:27   because it really does change how you view it.

00:20:30   If it's not, you know, an App Store rejection

00:20:33   is an inconvenience or a frustration,

00:20:35   but not a death sentence.

00:20:36   And that's really my final point is,

00:20:38   I have definitely heard some developers say

00:20:40   that they are reluctant to develop anything for iOS,

00:20:42   because if it gets rejected from the App Store,

00:20:45   there's literally nothing they can do.

00:20:47   They can't take that code and reuse it.

00:20:49   They can't move it.

00:20:50   I think they could probably put it on the Mac,

00:20:53   use a catalyst, but that's it.

00:20:56   And that suppresses development, right?

00:21:00   Like people who are afraid that they're gonna spend

00:21:03   two years and millions of dollars

00:21:05   or whatever the project is on a thing for iOS,

00:21:08   if it's like at all possible

00:21:10   that Apple's just gonna reject it, just don't do it.

00:21:13   And then the platform is worse.

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00:22:49   You wrote an iMac. I'm calling this the iMac Pro wish list. I think you were a little bit more

00:22:54   reserved than me. You just called it the next generation iMac wish list, but I'm calling this

00:22:58   an iMac Pro wish list because let's just call it what it is. It's the computer to replace your

00:23:04   computer. I don't know for sure that that's what it's going to be. And it doesn't, I mean,

00:23:10   in some ways it doesn't matter because it's just a name, right? So we can call it the iMac Pro if we

00:23:14   want to, but it's the big iMac. I really have been calling it the big iMac. Yeah, iMac Pro.

00:23:19   And I do genuinely stand by, I think they would do that.

00:23:22   I think it would be strange to me.

00:23:24   - I agree.

00:23:25   - To give it, especially if they give it a lot of the stuff

00:23:27   that you want it to have.

00:23:28   - So my only hesitation is there,

00:23:32   I think there's a scenario where they do,

00:23:34   they do a version of it with colors

00:23:37   and then there's the high end version that's black basically.

00:23:42   And that's the iMac Pro, where they split it.

00:23:44   And there's two versions of essentially the same computer,

00:23:47   but like the high-end model is like the super tricked out version.

00:23:51   It feels to me more likely.

00:23:53   The reason I say this is that if you look at that 24-inch iMac,

00:23:55   there are two of them, right?

00:23:57   There are really two of them.

00:23:59   There's the one with two ports.

00:24:01   That's, you know, it's the de-contented version of the 24.

00:24:04   Two ports, no ethernet on the cable.

00:24:07   Like it's the kind of like low-price leader

00:24:10   of the 24-inch iMac.

00:24:11   And then there's like the real one.

00:24:13   - Well, they've been doing this a little bit more now though,

00:24:14   right?

00:24:15   - There are the laptops which have the bin chips

00:24:18   in them and stuff.

00:24:19   - Exactly.

00:24:20   Well, yeah, right.

00:24:21   I mean, chip variation, but like now there's literally

00:24:24   like port variation on the back, right?

00:24:27   Which is even more than the chip variation

00:24:31   that's just the internal.

00:24:32   So I think it's possible that there could be

00:24:35   multiple big iMacs and I'm not sure

00:24:39   whether they wouldn't call them all iMac Pro anyway,

00:24:42   but like I do think there's a scenario here

00:24:44   where there's sort of two variants

00:24:46   and there's the like regular one that is a big screen

00:24:49   but it's just got the M1 and it's got fewer ports

00:24:52   and it's just the iMac 27 inch or 30 inch or whatever it is.

00:24:56   And then there's the iMac Pro

00:24:58   which is the one with the Pro chips

00:25:00   and lots of ports and is much more expensive.

00:25:02   They could break it that way.

00:25:05   And I think my argument if I'm inside Apple working on this,

00:25:09   if I'm one of the people we've interviewed

00:25:12   over the years about this,

00:25:14   My argument would be lots of regular people

00:25:16   buy the Big iMac and like the Big iMac.

00:25:18   And so we should offer a cheaper version

00:25:22   that doesn't feel like a pro product for them

00:25:25   so that they have something to buy.

00:25:28   So I think it's a possibility.

00:25:30   - I agree with you, but on iPad,

00:25:33   do you want the biggest one?

00:25:34   Pro's the only option currently with the iPhone.

00:25:37   Want the biggest one?

00:25:39   Well, you gotta go pro.

00:25:40   - Pro. - You know?

00:25:41   - Yeah, I hear you.

00:25:42   So maybe that's the modern Apple take is like,

00:25:44   look, Pro doesn't mean anything really

00:25:47   other than it's the nice one.

00:25:48   And so let's just lean into it.

00:25:50   And that's fine.

00:25:52   I think that's the simplest solution.

00:25:53   And probably the simplest one is the best one.

00:25:55   But then again, my counter is there are two 24-inch iMacs

00:25:58   'cause there's the one that just has two ports

00:26:00   and is kind of sad because they wanted a cheap one.

00:26:03   Maybe you don't need a cheap one of the big one.

00:26:06   - Yeah, and I actually kind of liked that they did that

00:26:08   because it meant that they didn't need

00:26:09   to keep the old iMac around.

00:26:11   - Oh yes, for sure.

00:26:13   - Which is what they do with all of their other products.

00:26:16   So I'm actually pleased that they have that model.

00:26:18   'Cause also it's still a great computer,

00:26:19   it just has less ports.

00:26:20   - Oh yeah, I'm not displeased with it.

00:26:22   I just think that's an interesting example of them

00:26:25   taking the time to do a, you know,

00:26:29   the extra work to make this second variation of it,

00:26:33   even though we call it one product, it is actually two.

00:26:35   So they could play that game again, even, you know,

00:26:38   will they? I don't know, maybe.

00:26:40   And to your point, even if they play that game,

00:26:43   they might still call them both iMac Pro.

00:26:45   - So I'm gonna free you a list here and talk about it.

00:26:48   You don't want it to be too big, right?

00:26:50   Now I'm like in camp of big screen.

00:26:53   I want a 30 inch iMac, that's what I want.

00:26:57   - Yeah, I, you know, what I said in the article

00:26:59   is sometimes 27 inch feels too big for me.

00:27:03   And I say that because I see people

00:27:05   with these wide screen displays and multiple displays.

00:27:07   And it's like, there are times where I've got a window

00:27:09   in the upper corner of my iMac where it's like too far away

00:27:14   and I got to move it into the middle

00:27:16   so that I can work on it.

00:27:17   Like it's way up there.

00:27:19   - You need to put your distance lenses on.

00:27:22   - Yeah, I got to drive over there,

00:27:25   see what's going on, drive back,

00:27:26   move my keyboard over there.

00:27:28   So, and yet at the same time, there are times,

00:27:31   especially when I'm doing video stuff

00:27:33   where I like switch into more space mode,

00:27:36   try to shrink everything down

00:27:38   in order to get more stuff on that screen.

00:27:40   So where I came down to,

00:27:41   'cause originally I was gonna be like,

00:27:43   I don't want it bigger, 27 inches is just fine.

00:27:46   And what turned me around is the argument

00:27:50   that the 24 inch iMac is packing a lot more display

00:27:55   in something, in a device that doesn't feel enormous,

00:28:00   doesn't feel like it got massively bigger

00:28:02   because they reduced the bezels and all of that.

00:28:04   - This iMac's tiny, really.

00:28:06   I think that is the strongest argument

00:28:09   for them going above 27 is that they've decided,

00:28:13   as they have with many other devices that they've done,

00:28:16   that what you do is you keep the size of the device similar,

00:28:20   but by shrinking all the bezels,

00:28:21   the screen just becomes bigger.

00:28:23   Like, I like that. That's a good idea.

00:28:25   - I will also add for myself,

00:28:27   if we're talking about screen,

00:28:29   ProMotion.

00:28:30   - Ah, sure. - I would like ProMotion.

00:28:34   - I mean, I think you mentioned mini LED, right?

00:28:36   That it would be nice if we could have that,

00:28:38   like why not if we're doing a wish list?

00:28:40   - I mean, those are less necessary for me,

00:28:42   but yeah, the dream would be ProMotion mini,

00:28:46   essentially the dream is the MacBook Pro display

00:28:50   on a big computer, which is I think a big request,

00:28:53   'cause that's a spectacular display

00:28:55   and spreading that over 27 to 30 inches,

00:28:58   it would be amazing.

00:29:00   I won't be super disappointed if that doesn't happen,

00:29:02   but it would be great.

00:29:03   It would undeniably be great.

00:29:05   - Yeah, and I would also add in

00:29:07   nano texture display option.

00:29:08   - Sure.

00:29:09   - Because I mean, they've already done that on the iMac.

00:29:11   - I put that in there for you.

00:29:12   I put that in the story just for you.

00:29:14   (laughing)

00:29:15   It is there on the iMac now, so why not?

00:29:17   - Like I don't even know if I would want it.

00:29:19   Like I have seen a pro display with that

00:29:23   and I thought it looked really cool.

00:29:25   - You get a cloth, there's a polishing cloth.

00:29:28   - I have the polishing cloth anyway,

00:29:30   'cause I'm one of those fools that bought one.

00:29:33   just, I don't even, I didn't even buy it when it was a meme.

00:29:35   I was just, when I bought my Mac Pro, I was like,

00:29:37   I don't know what this is, but I'll get it.

00:29:39   And it just sits here.

00:29:39   I don't ever do anything with it.

00:29:41   But I, so I would love just to look at that again

00:29:45   and maybe weigh that up.

00:29:46   It could be a cool addition and it's, you know,

00:29:49   a fun little thing that they could do.

00:29:51   You want more ports, including USB-A ports.

00:29:55   I agree with you, by the way.

00:29:56   - Yeah, well, there are USB-A ports

00:29:58   on the Apple Silicon Mac mini.

00:30:00   - Yep.

00:30:01   And I will remind everybody, my iMac Pro has four Thunderbolt

00:30:05   and four USB-C, and four USB-A on the back.

00:30:10   Eight USB ports on the back of this iMac Pro.

00:30:14   And you know what?

00:30:15   I use them.

00:30:16   I use them.

00:30:17   It's really nice to not need a dongle

00:30:19   to plug in a USB-A device.

00:30:21   This is a Pro system.

00:30:22   It's big.

00:30:23   It's got lots of room back there.

00:30:25   So I think, yeah, I think lots, lots, lots of ports.

00:30:30   That's what I'm asking for.

00:30:31   I want an SD card slot like I have on the iMac Pro.

00:30:34   I want that.

00:30:35   And I want, you know, ideally I'd like four and four

00:30:39   of USB-C style and USB-A style.

00:30:43   And you know, it's not unreasonable.

00:30:46   There are a bunch of ports.

00:30:48   Even the M1 Mac mini has USB-A and USB-C ports.

00:30:53   So I think, and there are four, for the record,

00:30:56   the 24 inch has four USB Thunderbolt ports on the back,

00:31:01   other than the two port model,

00:31:02   but the bigger one has four.

00:31:05   Whether there will be eight or not, it seems unlikely.

00:31:07   And yet I'm gonna advocate to keep some USB-A back there

00:31:10   because really why not?

00:31:12   It adds compatibility. - Even if that was like two.

00:31:14   - There's no cost, yeah, two USB-A.

00:31:17   It adds compatibility.

00:31:18   There's no cost appreciably to it.

00:31:21   You did it on the Mac mini.

00:31:23   There's value in a pro desktop

00:31:25   of having port flexibility.

00:31:27   So why not do it?

00:31:29   - It's like Apple, what if we promise you

00:31:31   this is the last time you'll need to do it?

00:31:32   Will you do it?

00:31:33   - Right now on the back of my iMac Pro,

00:31:36   right at this moment,

00:31:38   I have two USB-C plugged in and two USB-A plugged in.

00:31:42   And I could convert those, but I didn't have to.

00:31:46   - Last time, just put two on there, last time.

00:31:49   The next time you redesign the iMac,

00:31:50   you'll probably have moved on to something else

00:31:52   of it in USB-C, right?

00:31:54   but like, we're probably okay by then.

00:31:56   - But like, I like the practicality of it,

00:31:58   and it's something that, remember,

00:31:59   Apple didn't do on their laptops, this practicality,

00:32:01   but they did with that Mac Mini, which is,

00:32:04   yeah, let's just put some USB-A on there.

00:32:05   Like, let's just do it. - I wouldn't expect

00:32:07   or ask for USB-A on a laptop now.

00:32:10   - No, no, but on a desktop where you've got all that room,

00:32:13   and even on the Mac Mini where they didn't have

00:32:14   all that room, like, just the flexibility

00:32:16   of having that stuff that's laying around,

00:32:18   and it really is as simple as, I have this thing,

00:32:21   I can plug it in instead of I have this thing,

00:32:24   oh, let me go get an adapter.

00:32:26   Now I've got my adapter, now I'll plug it in.

00:32:28   And that happens to me all the time.

00:32:30   - Like look, if they announced this computer without USB-A,

00:32:33   I'm not gonna be mad.

00:32:34   Like I've already moved away.

00:32:35   I've got docks and dongles and all sorts.

00:32:37   - But this is my wishlist, right?

00:32:38   I would like them to just embrace it, embrace it.

00:32:40   Maybe it's three and two or four and two

00:32:44   or something like that.

00:32:45   That's fine.

00:32:46   The Mac Mini has two USB-A, but like, I think it's worth it.

00:32:50   - You even mentioned like put them on the power brick, right?

00:32:52   We got our friend the ethernet power brick,

00:32:54   put them on there, I don't know.

00:32:55   - I doubt this is gonna happen this time,

00:32:57   but like for the iMac, and I know people are like,

00:32:59   "Oh, you can't put USB on the power brick

00:33:01   because what if it unplugs?"

00:33:04   It's like, well, what if your computer unplugs?

00:33:07   - If your computer unplugs, your computer's off.

00:33:09   - Your computer's off anyway and it's bad, whatever.

00:33:12   So unlike MagSafe on the laptops

00:33:15   where you probably don't wanna put USB ports

00:33:18   on the brick because then the thing pops off

00:33:22   and you lose your USB devices.

00:33:23   Okay, but on a desktop,

00:33:26   I just want them to push that concept forward.

00:33:28   It probably won't happen this time, but it's a wishlist.

00:33:31   I want them to push the concept forward.

00:33:33   I have a USB hub velcroed to the bottom of my desk,

00:33:36   to the underside of my desk, because I need some ports.

00:33:39   I need to attach things to,

00:33:42   like my keyboard runs under there

00:33:44   and my UPS that's got a USB port on it

00:33:48   so that if the power goes out, my computer stays on,

00:33:51   like it's got a USB umbilical

00:33:54   that goes back to the computer.

00:33:55   It's under there.

00:33:56   Like having, taking the ethernet outboard

00:34:00   and getting it off your desktop is a great idea,

00:34:02   but really I would like some ports on that thing too.

00:34:06   I really would because like I said,

00:34:08   I got a USB hub under my desk.

00:34:10   It's dumb.

00:34:11   I would really rather attach that little brick

00:34:14   and have stuff coming off of it.

00:34:15   So for an iMac Pro or a big iMac,

00:34:18   however you wanna call it, yeah,

00:34:20   I want even more than just ethernet on there.

00:34:22   I want it to be multi-use

00:34:25   because that's the truth of it, right?

00:34:26   Is we got lots of devices

00:34:28   that we plug into these desktop computers.

00:34:30   And so, you know, embrace it.

00:34:32   And we don't want the,

00:34:32   I mean, the argument is the same as the ethernet,

00:34:35   which is I don't need this clutter.

00:34:37   I don't need, I have some stuff that I need to plug in

00:34:40   that I do not need on my desktop.

00:34:41   So I'd rather have one nice braided cable

00:34:45   going down onto the desk,

00:34:48   and then what happens down there, stays down there.

00:34:51   - And obviously you'd want it to be color matched,

00:34:54   but will that be color?

00:34:55   - I think that goes without saying, right?

00:34:57   Whatever color or lack of color or boringness that they do,

00:35:00   I expect it all to match.

00:35:02   I would like, color is my item.

00:35:06   I would like not just to have black or space gray or silver.

00:35:10   I would like some color.

00:35:11   I'm kind of resigned to the fact that they'll probably be

00:35:14   dark, not bright eye popping colors like the 24 inch model.

00:35:19   But you know what, if it's a dark blue or something like

00:35:23   that, that would be cool.

00:35:24   I would love to be able to pick a color of iMac

00:35:27   and not have it just be entirely neutral.

00:35:31   And this is the moment where everybody was like,

00:35:32   "Oh, but designers need to be neutral."

00:35:34   It's like, they're never gonna not offer it

00:35:36   as a neutral color.

00:35:37   There will always be a neutral color offered.

00:35:40   but not all of us want that.

00:35:42   So I would like colors, please.

00:35:44   - I don't think I would, if it was like a pro machine,

00:35:50   I don't think I would want the exact color options

00:35:52   that are on the M1, but a variety of interesting colors

00:35:57   is what I would want.

00:35:58   Like I do like the kind of reserved color palette,

00:36:01   provided there is a color palette, you know?

00:36:05   - I think you're right.

00:36:07   I expect that instead of that very light gray bezel

00:36:11   that goes around the 24-inch iMacs,

00:36:13   my guess is that it will be a dark bezel

00:36:16   that goes around these larger iMacs

00:36:18   because they're gonna be for pro use.

00:36:20   And so the bright colors wouldn't really go with it anyway.

00:36:25   And that's okay.

00:36:26   Like, that's okay.

00:36:28   I just want some personality injected into it.

00:36:30   I think it would be a shame if--

00:36:32   - Like more than one, you know?

00:36:33   Like with the iPhones, they have the standard ones

00:36:36   and in one color.

00:36:37   "No, no, why don't we do five colors,

00:36:39   "but they can be like Safari green, whatever it was called."

00:36:44   And like Pacific blue. - Midnight blue.

00:36:47   - But like, you know, option.

00:36:49   Not like if you want color, you can get one color,

00:36:52   or you can get three different grays.

00:36:55   - Yeah, right.

00:36:56   - That's not what I'm looking for here,

00:36:57   but like variation fun.

00:36:58   - There's a good wishlist item, yeah.

00:37:00   - Lot of fun.

00:37:01   Webcam, gotta be good, right?

00:37:05   - Yeah, I'm tired of the excuses.

00:37:07   I'm tired of the,

00:37:08   this is the best webcam we've ever put in a Mac.

00:37:10   It's 1080, but it's got a processor on it, so it's fine.

00:37:13   Like that's where they are right now.

00:37:14   And like, it's gotta stop.

00:37:15   It's gotta stop.

00:37:16   The iMac needs to have what the iPad has,

00:37:21   which is the iPad has a 12 megapixel camera.

00:37:24   That's a wide angle with center stage.

00:37:26   And you know,

00:37:27   I should be able to do very high quality video

00:37:31   from this thing and I should have it auto track.

00:37:33   all of that stuff needs to be there.

00:37:36   Like I'm tired of the excuses.

00:37:38   The iMac 24 came out the same time

00:37:41   as the iPad with center stage.

00:37:43   And the iMac is the perfect product for that.

00:37:46   Like I would like it to do face ID.

00:37:48   I would really like that.

00:37:50   - I mean, we're talking wishlist.

00:37:51   That would be a lot of wishlist.

00:37:53   - But at the very least it needs to be that proper

00:37:57   high quality front facing camera with center stage.

00:38:01   - Big one for me is the ergonomics.

00:38:03   - My dream would be the Pro Display's stand, you know?

00:38:08   - That's half the price of the iMac right there.

00:38:12   - Right, but something akin to that, you know,

00:38:14   like obviously not a thousand dollar stand,

00:38:17   but the flexibility of it.

00:38:19   - The Pro Display rotates, right?

00:38:22   And I don't think Apple needs to make a base stand

00:38:24   for the iMac that will let you lift it up and turn it

00:38:27   and put it in portrait orientation.

00:38:29   I mean, imagine that, but they don't need to do that.

00:38:33   but adjustable height stand.

00:38:36   Like I think the 24 inch iMac's a little short, right?

00:38:38   - Oh yeah, I have mine on one of those little riser things,

00:38:42   you know? - Yeah.

00:38:43   - It's too low down.

00:38:44   - I asked them about it and they said,

00:38:46   "Oh no, we did our research

00:38:47   and we think this is the right thing."

00:38:48   But I think that, but I just, I don't agree.

00:38:51   I don't believe it.

00:38:52   I think that they took their best shot

00:38:56   and maybe they think it's the right height.

00:38:58   It feels a little short to me.

00:38:59   And then you've got this beautiful, fun,

00:39:00   cute, colorful thing.

00:39:02   and then you stick like a dictionary under it or something

00:39:04   in order to get it to height, it just seems,

00:39:06   it seems like a mistake.

00:39:08   And so if they're gonna make a high-end iMac,

00:39:10   please spring for height adjustment.

00:39:14   Like displays have height adjustment.

00:39:16   The iMac is a display.

00:39:18   It should be adjustable.

00:39:19   It's important.

00:39:20   It's ergonomics.

00:39:21   It's accessibility, essentially.

00:39:24   They really, really need to do it right.

00:39:27   - And then also what have we got?

00:39:29   M1 Pro and M1 Mac specs.

00:39:31   - So when you say that, is you talking like just the chips?

00:39:35   - Yeah, well the chips and the RAM limits

00:39:37   that come with them, right?

00:39:37   So that you can have, so you can choose to go up to 32 or 64

00:39:41   and then ideally, if they've got the dual M1 Macs

00:39:46   ready to go for the Mac Pro,

00:39:50   they could do that for this too.

00:39:51   - Oh, I mean, wishlist, right?

00:39:54   - Yeah, I don't know.

00:39:55   Like the Mac Pro is coming eventually

00:40:00   and the rumors are that they're gonna be dual

00:40:01   and quad configurations, it would be interesting

00:40:03   if they rolled out like a dual max configuration

00:40:05   at the high end of this.

00:40:06   I don't know if that's likely, but I'll throw it in there.

00:40:09   But at the very least, you know, the M1 max and an iMac,

00:40:13   yeah, bring it to me.

00:40:16   - I guess the thing I don't know if I considered this,

00:40:18   but as you're saying it, it was like,

00:40:20   if they do this double M1 max chip or whatever,

00:40:24   would they only do it for the Mac Pro?

00:40:26   Like that's the only place it's gonna be?

00:40:29   Maybe, I think in the long run,

00:40:31   if they've got other pro desktop Macs,

00:40:35   why not put it in there?

00:40:36   That's my argument to them is,

00:40:38   if you've got an iMac Pro,

00:40:39   put a dual M1 Macs option in there, why not?

00:40:42   Just see it, but it may not be ready.

00:40:43   It may really be waiting for the Mac Pro

00:40:45   to do something like a dual or a quad.

00:40:47   But down the road, perhaps,

00:40:49   some things like Mac Mini and iMac Pro might get those too.

00:40:54   But really, honestly, that's dreaming a magical dream.

00:40:58   but M1 Macs and an iMac, yes please.

00:41:02   - My favorite though is your last one.

00:41:04   Announced March 8th, all those,

00:41:06   all those March 11 shipping March 18th.

00:41:08   It's like, we don't even have an idea

00:41:10   if there's even gonna be an iMac.

00:41:11   You're like, no, I want it in a week.

00:41:13   - It's my list, Myke, it's my list, I want it now.

00:41:16   And what's the point of a wishlist

00:41:17   if you can't demand the product to be made available for you.

00:41:21   So that's my last item is announced March 8th,

00:41:25   orders on the Friday shipping the next Friday please. Thank you.

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00:43:19   I want to talk about comics a little bit.

00:43:21   Okay.

00:43:22   So I feel like a couple of times in my life I've been a comics person.

00:43:27   So going back many, many years, this is actually fun.

00:43:30   When I used to work at my bank, one of the things that I did was help people open business accounts.

00:43:38   And there was once, this is probably like 15 years ago now, which is a horrible thing for me to

00:43:45   consider. I have stories in my life that are 15 years old, but nevertheless.

00:43:50   One of the accounts that I opened was for somebody starting a comic book shop,

00:43:54   like a comic book store. And I went down to visit their store once and looked around and picked up

00:44:01   some stuff. And I had some interesting superheroes, but I hadn't really read comics and I bought a

00:44:04   a bunch of stuff and enjoyed it.

00:44:06   And one of the things that I bought was "Civil War"

00:44:08   that was recommended to me.

00:44:09   Absolutely love "Marvel Civil War."

00:44:11   It turned it into a great movie,

00:44:12   but the comic book is still excellent in its own way.

00:44:16   And then over time as well,

00:44:17   like I've got moved in and out of paper comics

00:44:19   and then some years ago I was reading some digital comics.

00:44:23   I think probably when Comixology launched.

00:44:26   And recently I've been watching a YouTube recap series

00:44:31   of like Marvel and superhero movies.

00:44:34   And it's just been like a fun thing that I've been watching

00:44:36   and they keep referencing comic stories

00:44:38   that are influencing some of the stories

00:44:41   in the movies, of course.

00:44:42   So it's made me think, I want to read more of them.

00:44:45   Especially X-Men.

00:44:47   I've never really, my only real X-Men knowledge

00:44:51   comes from the Saturday Morning Cartoon show.

00:44:53   Like I never read any comics.

00:44:55   And I saw some of the X-Men movies,

00:44:57   but like I wanted to know more about the X-Men

00:44:59   for reasons that I think will be important in the future.

00:45:02   So I've been digging back in again and we're kind of,

00:45:06   the landscape has changed a bit, I think,

00:45:09   since I last looked at comics.

00:45:10   And it's actually pretty time because it's changing again.

00:45:13   Like, comixology was a big thing.

00:45:15   Amazon bought comixology.

00:45:17   It seems like Amazon are making a bunch of changes

00:45:19   to comixology, which I think some people

00:45:21   were not happy about.

00:45:22   Like they're doing some weird stuff.

00:45:25   But I kind of wanted to know,

00:45:26   like what are you doing right now?

00:45:28   Do you have any recommendations?

00:45:30   And I want to talk about some other stuff

00:45:31   that I've been doing.

00:45:32   - I haven't been reading comics as much the last,

00:45:35   I don't know, six months as I was for a while there.

00:45:38   I've been, I've just been reading a lot of novels lately.

00:45:42   So I still have Marvel Unlimited,

00:45:44   which I feel like is still getting better.

00:45:47   DC apparently now has their version of that,

00:45:49   that lets you like dive into their archive.

00:45:51   I want to check that out someday,

00:45:53   but I haven't done that yet.

00:45:54   But so for Marvel, I, the nice thing about going,

00:45:58   you know, a few months without reading any Marvel comics

00:46:00   is that they just kind of all queue up on Marvel Unlimited

00:46:03   and I can get to them whenever I want.

00:46:05   I buy some comics, mostly independent comics,

00:46:08   on Comixology and some other stuff

00:46:11   that's like the non-Marvel stuff.

00:46:14   Comixology, you know, Amazon bought them

00:46:17   and everybody wants to portray it

00:46:19   as like Amazon ate Comixology.

00:46:21   It's not quite right.

00:46:23   I mean, it's sort of true,

00:46:24   but the truth is that Amazon did not have

00:46:26   a lot of comics expertise

00:46:29   And they installed the guy who founded Comixology,

00:46:33   the CEO, as the head of comics,

00:46:35   like immediately for all of Amazon,

00:46:38   like not just for Comixology, but for Amazon proper.

00:46:41   'Cause they knew that the Amazon comics approach

00:46:43   wasn't quite right.

00:46:44   And so over the last few years,

00:46:46   like they've made a lot of changes to the Kindle app

00:46:50   to make it better for comics and all of that.

00:46:55   And I think their plan all along was to converge

00:46:59   Comixology and Amazon.

00:47:01   - That's coming.

00:47:04   They're doing that.

00:47:05   - Yeah, and if you go, they are doing that.

00:47:06   And if you go to the Comixology app now,

00:47:09   it is a comics reading app, but it's not the old one.

00:47:14   And it really is the Kindle app.

00:47:18   It feels very much like it's just the Kindle app

00:47:21   with a comic reading storefront on the front or front,

00:47:24   I guess list front because it's iOS you can't actually sell the comics there.

00:47:30   So I think they're unifying all of that.

00:47:32   I don't think that's a bad idea in the end.

00:47:34   They're going to want to make one comic reading app.

00:47:35   The Comixology website now here in the UK.

00:47:38   I think in the UK and the US is that part of the problem is they're doing this thing

00:47:42   but they're not doing it everywhere which means it's kind of shutting down in some places

00:47:47   but in the UK Comixology.co.uk now takes me to Amazon.co.uk.

00:47:52   lot of people signed up for subscriptions where they get the next issue automatically.

00:47:57   And my understanding is that as part of this merger thing, they basically told everybody

00:48:02   outside of the US, "You can't have that feature anymore." Just like, what are you doing? I don't

00:48:06   know. There's a lot of stuff going on there that's kind of weird. But anyway, it is still,

00:48:10   at least especially for me in the US, a convenient place to buy. I don't really want to buy comics

00:48:15   from Amazon. I think, you know, we mentioned before that Apple bought that company that does

00:48:21   classical music stuff, and they're gonna roll out

00:48:24   an Apple Music classical basically at some point,

00:48:28   or Apple classical.

00:48:29   And this is a little like that,

00:48:33   where comics are different enough

00:48:36   that what Amazon seems to wanna do

00:48:37   is have a brand that has comics

00:48:41   that is dedicated to the comic reading experience.

00:48:46   'Cause like, I have a Kindle app,

00:48:50   but I don't want to read comics on the Kindle app.

00:48:51   I want to read them in the ComiXology app.

00:48:53   I want to read them in an app that's actually dedicated,

00:48:55   even if the reading experience is the same,

00:48:57   I don't want to go through the whole Kindle thing

00:48:59   and see my Kindle books.

00:49:00   I just want to see my comics.

00:49:01   - Honestly, it's like having podcasts in your music app.

00:49:04   It doesn't always make sense to do that.

00:49:07   - No, no, thank you.

00:49:07   So that's sort of what they're doing there.

00:49:11   It's fine.

00:49:12   I know people are up in arms about it.

00:49:14   Like this is, on one level, it's not as big a deal

00:49:18   as I think people are making it out to be.

00:49:19   on another level, Amazon bought them.

00:49:21   What did you expect?

00:49:22   Of course this was gonna happen to some degree.

00:49:25   I think it's gonna be okay.

00:49:27   The truth though is that I also am not, I'm just not,

00:49:31   I wish I had comics to recommend to you,

00:49:33   but I just have not been reading a lot of new stuff

00:49:35   the last few years.

00:49:36   Saga just started up again, so I think I need to go,

00:49:38   or announce that they're starting up again,

00:49:40   so I'm gonna need to get back on the Saga train.

00:49:44   But I have not been reading new comics the last six months.

00:49:47   For me at the moment, I'm really only that interested in Marvel comics.

00:49:52   This is just what I know and it's what I like and there's so much stuff I haven't

00:49:56   read that I'm good with that.

00:49:57   Partly because I bought Adina a Marvel Unlimited subscription a couple of years ago and so

00:50:02   I'm just signed into that account on my iPad as well and I'm just reading some stuff

00:50:07   that she's not reading.

00:50:08   Like we're reading completely different types of things.

00:50:11   And the Marvel Unlimited, I actually kind of like that experience and I think it's

00:50:14   pretty cool.

00:50:15   How long do you know roughly like how long do you have to wait for new comics to come

00:50:20   to Marvel on the way?

00:50:21   Oh last time I checked I think it was three months.

00:50:24   Right.

00:50:25   I mean.

00:50:26   That makes sense.

00:50:27   I think it was six.

00:50:28   I think it might be three now, four.

00:50:30   But the truth is like if you're if you're behind and you stay behind then new comics

00:50:35   are being released every week.

00:50:36   It's just that you're behind the rest of it.

00:50:38   There's so much stuff that I could and want to read I don't really care about being up

00:50:42   today right?

00:50:43   So like I'm reading through House of M, Powers of M right now.

00:50:48   Oh wow, that's way back there.

00:50:49   Yeah, because there's a bunch of stuff, there's that classic stuff I've just never read and

00:50:52   would like to read and it's a fascinating series.

00:50:55   Yeah, there's so much X-Men stuff and it's so confusing.

00:50:58   What I like, they have these like curated lists and starting points in the Marvel Unlimited

00:51:04   app and I've been like going through that.

00:51:07   You said House of M, but do you mean House of X, Powers of X, Powers of X?

00:51:12   of 10. Is that what it is powers of 10? Yeah it's a well it's a play on it's like a very

00:51:18   for Apple people it's even extra confusing. Yeah that's really interesting that's from

00:51:21   a couple years ago where they basically reset the whole X-Men scenario and and put them

00:51:26   in a new place yeah I love I love that that was a that was a really fun intertwined series

00:51:31   I like that one a lot. It was two comics and they have like a weird reading order and in

00:51:35   a great way that like in the back of the issues they show you the suggested reading order

00:51:40   which is like it's like a very funny thing but I like it it's like I read some of this stuff like

00:51:44   and it's so incredible it's like these people just build these entire worlds and all these walls.

00:51:48   Jonathan Hickman who wrote that he has a very particular style I really like his work he is

00:51:55   he's a sci-fi oriented I would say comic book writer and so his stories tend to be a little

00:52:04   more sci-fi than some of the other superhero titles that are out there. I really liked,

00:52:10   he did a run on new Avengers and Avengers that led to Secret Wars. Okay, Secret Wars is one that I

00:52:19   also have in my... again, because what I like is there are some big comic events, right, where it's

00:52:25   spread across like six series. Right, but there's a reading list. They create the reading lists,

00:52:30   And so like I've saved some of those reading lists as well.

00:52:32   - I recommend looking at Hickman's Avengers

00:52:36   and New Avengers as part of that.

00:52:37   And they probably have that in a reading list too,

00:52:39   'cause it really does sort of start there

00:52:41   and then build to this event.

00:52:43   And the idea is that all the parallel universes

00:52:47   are colliding and annihilating each other

00:52:49   and that goes on in New Avengers,

00:52:50   especially for quite a while.

00:52:53   And like I love those kind of widescreen,

00:52:56   wild idea, sci-fi kind of thing.

00:52:59   So that was a fun thing.

00:53:00   And then Hickman coming off of that went and did this,

00:53:02   let's reinvent the X-Men as having their own country

00:53:06   and building up this whole new system.

00:53:09   And they have like the ability to clone themselves.

00:53:11   And it's just these wild ideas

00:53:13   and told in a chopped up narrative

00:53:15   'cause the powers of 10, the whole idea is you're shifting

00:53:17   from like now to one year from now to 10 years from now

00:53:20   to a hundred years from now to a thousand years from now.

00:53:23   And like what's going on in all those different timelines.

00:53:25   And yeah, that's good stuff.

00:53:26   I like that a lot. - My secret invasion

00:53:28   Uh, uh, reading this starts with New Avengers 31.

00:53:32   That's the reading order.

00:53:35   So it's definitely in there, which is cool.

00:53:37   Yep.

00:53:37   But, and like, I kind of just like this thing that Marvel's doing.

00:53:42   Like just this, it's effective like a Netflix thing, right?

00:53:45   It's just like, here's your streaming service for comic books.

00:53:48   Just give us an amount of money every year and you can just go

00:53:52   in and read whatever you want.

00:53:53   And if DC does it, like maybe I'll get it, like I'll check

00:53:56   out the DC one eventually too.

00:53:57   Like, I think it's a smart move because there's so much back catalog stuff.

00:54:03   Like the idea of the comicsology for me now doesn't really make so much sense, especially

00:54:09   like the need to own it.

00:54:10   Like I don't need, I actually, I don't need to own digital comics.

00:54:13   Like I'm good, you know, like my, my kind of mental model for that stuff has changed

00:54:18   a lot now where I don't really feel like I need any ownership over it all.

00:54:25   Like it's just streaming content to me now.

00:54:27   - I agree, and I don't know what their financial model is,

00:54:30   right, and I want them to,

00:54:32   I want the people who make comics to succeed,

00:54:34   and I do buy comics that are like,

00:54:37   I'm not buying Marvel comics,

00:54:38   but I am buying from like more indie publishers,

00:54:40   because that's how you get that stuff,

00:54:42   and I know that it matters to them.

00:54:44   And a lot of the, even the indie publishers,

00:54:47   you know, week one, it might cost 4.99,

00:54:49   and week two, it costs 2.99, right,

00:54:51   where they're like, they're trying to get the people

00:54:53   who are super into it and wanna buy it immediately,

00:54:56   and they charge them extra.

00:54:57   And then sometimes they discount it after a few weeks

00:55:00   for everybody else.

00:55:00   So it's a lot cheaper to get caught up.

00:55:04   So I want them to do well, I don't know,

00:55:05   but I agree that the Netflix model

00:55:07   of paying a subscription fee

00:55:08   and just having access to a comic library is pretty great.

00:55:11   When you finish, by the way, House of X Powers of 10,

00:55:15   The Incomparable, 502, 100 episodes ago,

00:55:18   was all about those.

00:55:20   - Oh, amazing.

00:55:21   I guess that's the fun thing.

00:55:22   I'll be able to go and listen to some old episodes

00:55:25   of the incomparable, which I've skipped.

00:55:27   It's funny, I just Googled, I was like,

00:55:29   "Oh, what about the DC one?"

00:55:30   Yeah, no, it's in the US only.

00:55:32   - Yeah.

00:55:32   - You own it, it's yours!

00:55:34   I don't understand it. - I know.

00:55:35   - I don't get it. - I don't know.

00:55:36   - Nobody else is doing it.

00:55:37   It's not like there's another company

00:55:39   who has your streaming comic rights or whatever, you know?

00:55:42   Just like, just make it available, DC.

00:55:44   Like, this is your, or Warner, I guess.

00:55:48   I don't even know who it is anymore,

00:55:49   but this is your content, you know?

00:55:51   Come on, just make it available to me.

00:55:54   You know, I'm into it.

00:55:55   It's like, and then I want to do a bunch of Spider-Man stuff.

00:55:57   Love Spider-Man.

00:55:58   Do you have any Spider-Man recommendations for me?

00:56:00   - I say start from Ultimate Spider-Man number one.

00:56:07   It's great.

00:56:09   That's my favorite comic,

00:56:10   favorite Marvel comic of the last 20 years

00:56:13   is Ultimate Spider-Man by Brian Michael Bendis.

00:56:16   - Oh, I've read Ultimate.

00:56:17   I've read some of it before, but a long, long time ago.

00:56:20   - Read the whole, the whole thing is there

00:56:22   and it comes to builds to a climax

00:56:24   and it introduces Miles Morales.

00:56:26   And then there's the more then then it becomes

00:56:28   the Miles Morales Spider-Man comic after that.

00:56:31   So there's a lot of good stuff in that.

00:56:35   It's like a hundred and.

00:56:36   - A hundred and thirty three issues for ultimate.

00:56:39   - And then one of my favorite comics of all time

00:56:40   is Invincible which is from Image.

00:56:43   So you can you can buy those.

00:56:45   - Yeah I read a lot of that.

00:56:46   - I love that too.

00:56:47   - On comic solitaire.

00:56:48   - But I have nothing super recent.

00:56:50   There's a lot of Brian K. Vaughan stuff, Paper Girls,

00:56:54   I read a while ago, that was really good.

00:56:56   Has some good Apple references in it, believe it or not.

00:57:00   It does.

00:57:01   Yeah.

00:57:02   - So the part of me talking about this

00:57:04   is I want recommendations from the Upgradients.

00:57:08   Like I want people to give me this stuff that they've got.

00:57:12   Like, I'm just, I don't know, I feel like this is a,

00:57:16   I made lots of references before on the show

00:57:18   that like I don't really enjoy reading.

00:57:21   Which is true, I just don't,

00:57:22   I don't really enjoy reading novels, that kind of stuff.

00:57:25   'Cause I kind of find it hard to keep my attention.

00:57:28   I do not have this problem with comics.

00:57:30   And it is kind of funny 'cause reading through the,

00:57:33   like the powers of 10,

00:57:35   there's like, there are these pages of text.

00:57:38   I was like, I have to read them like three times.

00:57:40   - Yeah, he does the whole thing

00:57:41   where he's got like little readouts of stuff, yeah.

00:57:44   - Which is cool information, but like I have to sit there

00:57:47   and I have to read that three times.

00:57:48   But the comic part, I'm like, no problem.

00:57:50   I'm like going through, I'm on top of it.

00:57:52   But as soon as you give me a paragraph of text,

00:57:54   I'm like, oh man.

00:57:55   I don't know what it is.

00:57:56   It just like, it takes a while for me

00:57:58   to have to go over it a couple of times.

00:57:59   Like, right, I'm on it.

00:58:00   Now I can continue.

00:58:02   So it's fun.

00:58:03   Yeah, I'm enjoying it.

00:58:04   It's like, I don't know.

00:58:05   I'm just-- it feels like just a fun thing

00:58:07   to get back into again.

00:58:09   And the iPad Mini, so good.

00:58:12   So good.

00:58:13   The only thing it's not great for is the landscape.

00:58:16   - Yeah, 'cause it's a little too small.

00:58:19   - Yeah.

00:58:19   - But you gotta zoom in and pan around for that.

00:58:22   - By and large, it's great.

00:58:23   Like the iPad mini is really, really good.

00:58:25   Like I remember when, even on like the regular,

00:58:28   like I remember on previous iPad minis,

00:58:30   do you kind of have to use the zooming in

00:58:32   on the panels features, 'cause it just wasn't good enough.

00:58:37   - Right.

00:58:38   - But now I can read all of that.

00:58:40   Catherine is asking if I read Matt Fractions.

00:58:43   - Matt Fractions. - I have read that.

00:58:44   I read that back in the day.

00:58:46   I have a hard copy of that one.

00:58:48   - Yeah. - Sent me up nicely

00:58:49   for Hawkeye, which I enjoyed a lot.

00:58:51   So yeah, comics.

00:58:53   - Comics, it's fun.

00:58:55   Look at us having fun

00:58:56   and not talking about legislation and regulation.

00:59:00   - Yeah, see, we can talk about sideloading,

00:59:02   but we can also talk about comic books.

00:59:05   - Look, we have lots of shades here.

00:59:07   Lots of colors.

00:59:09   Lots of, hopefully, iMac colors, maybe.

00:59:13   - This episode is brought to you by Capital One.

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01:00:27   We have some #askupgrade questions.

01:00:31   Matt asks, I feel like I'd quite like to own a retro Mac having listened to Jason talk

01:00:36   about it but I have a limited amount of space available. What do you think is the smallest

01:00:40   retro Mac that I could get?

01:00:42   I'm gonna say that practically, it depends on what you want from your retro Mac. Practically

01:00:48   speaking one of the compact Macs from the early days is probably best. Whether it's

01:00:54   an SE or a classic or a color classic, something that is classic 2, something that has its

01:01:01   own screen built into it and I know that means it's bulkier in a way but it also means

01:01:05   you don't have to have an external monitor. And the problem with a lot of early Macs is

01:01:09   that it's actually hard to get external video out to a modern display that you might have

01:01:14   hanging around. You know, if you find a 2ci with a monitor sitting on it at a garage sale,

01:01:19   you could do that. That would work too. But I would say one of the nice things about those

01:01:23   classic compact Macs is that they are compact. And so when I, I've been struggling to get

01:01:29   video out of a bunch of old Macs, but it's not a problem with the classic Mac. You could

01:01:35   look for a power book, the problem there is that the hard drives die and then you're trying

01:01:41   to take it apart. There are a lot of issues there. But again, a Mac with its own screen

01:01:48   is nice. That helps keep the size down. If you want to go a little more modern than that,

01:01:56   I don't know, you got the G4 Cube, you can find those. Or an iMac. Again, some of those

01:02:04   The G3 iMacs are big, the G4 iMacs are smaller,

01:02:07   but like if you have an old all-in-one

01:02:10   that brings its own screen, especially, that's helpful.

01:02:14   Otherwise you're gonna need to find like a screen.

01:02:17   Like I got a G4 Cube and a screen and they came together

01:02:21   where it's got ADC on it, so you just plug it in

01:02:25   and the screen works and the G4 works.

01:02:27   So that's my advice though, is avoid having to adapt

01:02:33   to an external monitor because you might be saying,

01:02:37   I'm gonna save space by having it be an external monitor

01:02:39   that I already own, but you may not be able to get there.

01:02:43   So that's my best advice for now for Matt.

01:02:46   - Sekou asks, Jason, do you use any form of spell

01:02:51   or grammar checker prior to posting an article?

01:02:54   - I try to run a spell check

01:02:56   and sometimes I will run Grammarly.

01:03:02   I signed up for a year of Grammarly just to try it out

01:03:04   because I, you know, writing on six colors,

01:03:08   you don't have a safety net.

01:03:11   I don't have a copy editor who's gonna go through my pieces.

01:03:14   And I also am not gonna wait to post them until, you know,

01:03:18   two days later because somebody has read it through.

01:03:21   So I, Grammarly is interesting because it finds,

01:03:26   it's better than a spell checker at finding words

01:03:30   that are typos contextually, which I'm very impressed by.

01:03:35   So it'll say, well, this is not the word

01:03:39   you wanna use here.

01:03:40   And it turns out it's a typo

01:03:42   and a spell checker won't do that.

01:03:43   And it will occasionally flag something that I'll agree with

01:03:46   in terms of there should be a comma here,

01:03:48   or you should remove this phrase.

01:03:49   The challenge I have with Grammarly

01:03:51   is that it flags a lot of stuff that I just,

01:03:54   it's trying to have me write a business letter

01:03:57   and that's not what I'm writing.

01:03:58   And so there's a lot of stuff that it flags as,

01:04:00   you might, you want to rephrase this or change this.

01:04:03   And I'm like, nope, that's what I,

01:04:05   that's exactly what I meant.

01:04:06   And that's frustrating,

01:04:07   but I do try to run longer pieces through Grammarly

01:04:11   just because it provides a little bit better safety net

01:04:14   than a straight up spell check.

01:04:16   - Yeah.

01:04:17   - Even though I find it frustrating

01:04:18   because it catches so much more stuff

01:04:21   that I don't consider wrong.

01:04:23   - I guess it's trying to remove your voice a little bit.

01:04:26   - It is because like I said,

01:04:27   And it's got, they've tried, they've got settings to like,

01:04:30   it's more informal and not a business letter and all that.

01:04:32   But the fact is that, yeah,

01:04:34   it still throws up a whole bunch of stuff

01:04:36   that I just don't agree with.

01:04:38   And it gets confused by some technical terms

01:04:41   and things like that.

01:04:42   But the real goal there, and I don't use,

01:04:44   I don't write in apps with a grammar checker.

01:04:47   So I can't tell you, I'm not in Microsoft Word or whatever,

01:04:49   but so I can't compare.

01:04:52   But I do like the idea that Grammarly is,

01:04:56   is looking at things a little more holistically.

01:05:00   And so it can find those dumb mistakes

01:05:02   where I have typed the wrong word,

01:05:04   or I've made a typo into a word that is in the dictionary,

01:05:07   but is totally the wrong use.

01:05:09   Or if I don't have a piece of punctuation,

01:05:12   or if I left a fragment in that I meant to change,

01:05:14   and now it doesn't make sense,

01:05:16   all that stuff gets flagged

01:05:18   in a way that a spelling checker wouldn't.

01:05:19   So I have been experimenting with that,

01:05:22   and I probably will keep paying for it

01:05:24   because it's a nice last sort of sanity check

01:05:28   before I get it posted.

01:05:30   - Google started doing a thing recently

01:05:32   which is equal parts funny and annoying for me

01:05:35   in Google Docs, where it's flagging the differences

01:05:40   between English spelling and American spelling

01:05:43   and is asking me if I mean it.

01:05:46   Do you wanna have this you taken out of here

01:05:49   or do you wanna change to American English?

01:05:52   Like it's just like a funny thing

01:05:53   'cause it's like either I'm putting it in

01:05:55   or somebody else is putting it in.

01:05:56   And it's like, are you sure about this one?

01:06:00   And they ask me, do you wanna change?

01:06:02   Do you wanna change the sentence to American English?

01:06:04   - I honestly wonder about that.

01:06:06   And sometimes in our docs,

01:06:07   you write something in British English

01:06:09   and it underlines it for me.

01:06:11   And I wonder, does it underline it for you?

01:06:13   Or does it know that it's okay for you

01:06:16   and it's not okay for me?

01:06:18   And then we end up having these kind of,

01:06:20   potentially we could go back and forth

01:06:21   and we have to keep changing things back and forth

01:06:23   and back and forth

01:06:24   'cause we're both auto-correcting to our own local language.

01:06:27   - I think that is happening now.

01:06:28   This is the thing that Google loves to do.

01:06:29   - That probably is happening.

01:06:32   - Michael asks, "Do you think that Apple's upcoming headset

01:06:35   could be thought of in the way that the HomePod is?

01:06:39   Too expensive, too high-end version of something

01:06:42   that exists from others

01:06:43   that's in an otherwise good enough form?"

01:06:46   So how we would say the HomePod is just an over-engineered,

01:06:50   over-expensive version of an Amazon Echo or whatever.

01:06:54   - I feel like we covered this in our episode recently

01:06:57   where we talked about this product.

01:06:58   I think I addressed this question directly,

01:07:02   which is sure it's possible.

01:07:05   The difference is that Apple is going,

01:07:07   it seems to be committed to this for the long haul

01:07:10   as a product category.

01:07:12   And they risk it being perceived as being too expensive,

01:07:16   but you know, if they keep at it

01:07:17   and they keep building new versions of it,

01:07:19   I think their thought is that they will wear people down over time.

01:07:22   I don't think it's going to be...

01:07:23   I do think it's possible that the first one will be way too expensive and it will be kind

01:07:27   of rejected by people, but that may be okay because Apple is thinking about this for the

01:07:35   long term.

01:07:36   My hope is they will have learned something from the HomePod, and if they still are planning

01:07:41   on going down this route of it being really expensive, to make sure that they market it

01:07:46   with that in mind.

01:07:48   Yeah.

01:07:49   that just like, this is better?

01:07:51   It's like, okay, but it's three times more expensive.

01:07:55   You know, like is that?

01:07:58   - I think the difference here is that,

01:08:00   is that Apple can probably come out and say,

01:08:02   this is the best experience ever.

01:08:04   And any experience below this isn't good enough.

01:08:06   And we can debate that,

01:08:07   but I think that they will be able to say that.

01:08:10   Whereas HomePod, it's not as if,

01:08:12   I mean, I know they said a lot of superlatives

01:08:13   about the HomePod, but like,

01:08:15   but the truth is the market they were going into

01:08:18   is every speaker ever made.

01:08:20   - Or that it's just like the HomePod sounds nice,

01:08:22   but like to the level that it's nicer than an Amazon Echo,

01:08:27   so it's not that much of a difference.

01:08:29   They do have the opportunity here to really,

01:08:31   like you put it on and you're like, oh my God, you know.

01:08:34   - Right, to blow people away and also to say,

01:08:37   all of those other things that you can buy

01:08:38   for 300 bucks are garbage.

01:08:41   This is the stuff, this is the thing

01:08:42   that's gonna change the world.

01:08:43   And again, it will still be very expensive

01:08:46   and a lot of people won't buy it,

01:08:47   but it's not the same as the HomePod.

01:08:49   - The iPhone was really expensive when it came out.

01:08:52   Phones were free, right?

01:08:53   - Yeah.

01:08:54   - Smartphones were free before that.

01:08:56   You just got them as part of your contract,

01:08:57   but the iPhone, you also had to give them $600 for it.

01:09:00   And it's like, oh, hang on a minute.

01:09:01   This is a lot of money.

01:09:02   So this has not never worked.

01:09:07   It just hasn't worked maybe recently.

01:09:10   The Apple Watch maybe is another example.

01:09:12   Apple Watches, you know,

01:09:13   it's much more expensive than a regular watch.

01:09:16   Chris asks, "What are some of your favorite all-time TV show theme songs?"

01:09:22   So I wanted to have this question because we just started re-watching Mandalorian again

01:09:28   because we just watched Boba Fett.

01:09:30   I like the song for Boba Fett, but I love the Mandalorian theme song.

01:09:35   The Mandalorian theme song is one of my favorite TV show theme songs.

01:09:38   It's just so good.

01:09:39   I just love it.

01:09:40   It's just a fantastic piece of music.

01:09:41   It gets me so hyped up for the show.

01:09:45   I will also throw in Succession, which is a recent one.

01:09:48   Love the Succession theme song.

01:09:49   I know I'm not alone in that.

01:09:51   And then because I picked two that were very recent,

01:09:55   I wanted to pick some that were older.

01:09:58   The West Wing, love the West Wing.

01:09:59   Just definitely get the West Wing's theme song

01:10:02   gets me in the mood for the West Wing.

01:10:04   Like I'm in it.

01:10:05   Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, it's just superb.

01:10:08   And Curb Your Enthusiasm.

01:10:10   - Sure.

01:10:12   - So good.

01:10:13   It's just like perfect, right?

01:10:14   It's perfect for its thing.

01:10:15   It's ended up like just that song,

01:10:18   like the "Curb Your Enthusiasm" theme song

01:10:20   is played so well that now just hearing it

01:10:23   makes you feel awkward, you know?

01:10:25   It's just like, yes, they nailed it.

01:10:26   - I will point people to the incomparable episodes,

01:10:30   388 and 515, both of which are TV theme song drafts.

01:10:34   - Of course.

01:10:35   - But just mining that Spider-Man, Spider-Man.

01:10:40   - Oh yeah, that's a good one.

01:10:43   I picked the Friday Night Lights theme song,

01:10:47   which is really nice.

01:10:48   And that's in a style like Explosions in the Sky,

01:10:52   which is a great band,

01:10:53   even though it's not Explosions in the Sky,

01:10:54   it's that post-punk.

01:10:56   It's really nice.

01:10:57   Let's see, what else do I want to throw in there?

01:11:02   Magnum P.I.?

01:11:03   Love that, classic '80s Magnum P.I. theme, can't be beat.

01:11:08   Tectorus has a really good theme song.

01:11:12   I like that a lot.

01:11:13   And I don't know, Hawaii Five-O is great.

01:11:18   I always used to love that as a kid.

01:11:20   I used to love the Taxi theme song

01:11:22   and Taxi was on late and my brother watched it,

01:11:25   but I wasn't allowed to stay up.

01:11:27   It was my bedtime, nine o'clock or whenever it was on

01:11:29   when I was a little kid.

01:11:30   And so I would stay up to listen to the theme song

01:11:33   and then I was allowed to go to bed,

01:11:34   but I could listen to the theme song first before I went.

01:11:37   So I'll throw that in there.

01:11:38   A lot of great TV theme songs out there.

01:11:41   If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on the show, you can send in

01:11:45   a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or you can use ?AskUpgrade in the Relay FM members

01:11:51   discord, which you can get access to by signing up for Upgrade Plus. Go to GetUpgradePlus.com

01:11:57   and you will get longer, ad-free versions of the show each and every week.

01:12:03   Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade. If you want to find Jason

01:12:06   on the channel.

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