383: Dongletown Hotel


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 383.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, Setapp, and Membrful.

00:00:16   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:18   Hi Jason.

00:00:19   Hi Myke, how are you?

00:00:21   I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good.

00:00:23   I'm looking out a window. I sat here before at this window.

00:00:26   I've got hills and palm trees and all kinds

00:00:29   because I'm back again in Beverly Hills today.

00:00:32   - Is it the same window?

00:00:33   Did you get the same room or are you using the same?

00:00:35   - We actually got the exact same room

00:00:38   since the last time we stayed here.

00:00:39   So I'm feeling pretty happy about that.

00:00:41   So I have a hashtag snow talk question for you, Jason,

00:00:43   which is how did you enjoy brunch on Saturday?

00:00:46   - I had a great time at brunch on Saturday,

00:00:47   but that's because, well, I mean, first off,

00:00:50   it's Southern California in late November,

00:00:53   which means it was sunny and warm, just a breeze.

00:00:58   It was a Saturday, late Saturday morning,

00:01:01   and you're sitting outside at a cafe

00:01:05   that does like breakfast all day.

00:01:07   And that alone, it would have been pretty great.

00:01:12   But who was across the table from me?

00:01:15   Myke Hurley.

00:01:16   Well, technically Adina Hurley

00:01:17   was across the table from me.

00:01:19   - That's true.

00:01:21   - And Myke was kind of diagonal.

00:01:23   And it was lovely.

00:01:24   It was great to see you after two years, right?

00:01:27   Two plus years.

00:01:27   Yeah, we worked out that the last time we'd spent any time together was August 2019.

00:01:33   At the Relay 5th anniversary event in San Francisco. That was it. That was the last

00:01:37   time. So it has been a historically horrifically

00:01:40   long time. So I found it like you. Pretty wonderful to spend time with you and your

00:01:46   lovely family. So yeah, we had a great time. It was. It was. And I had some French toast,

00:01:51   you know. I would like to thank myself for that #StarTalk

00:01:54   If you would like to send in a question you can even write it directly in our

00:01:58   document if you have such powers, very few do, or you can send in a tweet with a

00:02:03   hashtag SnowTalk or use question mark snow talk in the Relay FM members

00:02:06   discord which I'll mention now actually if you want to become a Relay FM member

00:02:11   maybe you want to support this show usually you would go to getupgradeplus.com

00:02:15   but if you or someone you know wants to join Relay FM for a whole year now is a

00:02:21   great time to do so because until December 17th all of our annual plans

00:02:25   are 22% off for new subscribers so if you're a new subscriber go to giverelay.com

00:02:30   this would include Upgrade Plus so you can get a year of ad-free episodes

00:02:35   and more content for just $39 go to giverelay.com and you can find out more

00:02:40   about how to do that so you know this is our...

00:02:43   Deals!

00:02:45   Cyber Monday!

00:02:46   Yeah!

00:02:47   It is Cyber Monday today!

00:02:48   Monday happy happy cyber Monday to those who celebrate and

00:02:52   you on cyber Monday is the ability to get 22% off an annual plan and you can get

00:03:01   you become a relay for member and you support the show and you also get bonus

00:03:05   content too so we have some follow-up on airplay and music on the Mac right yes

00:03:12   listener Sam wrote in last week we I was complaining about trying to use home

00:03:17   as my external, my music playback speakers on,

00:03:22   or my Sonos's actually, either one,

00:03:25   instead of wired connection to my iPod Hi-Fi.

00:03:28   And Sam wrote in to point out,

00:03:30   and this is very much what you can do on iOS,

00:03:33   and you can do it on the Mac too,

00:03:35   which is you can do a remote control

00:03:38   where you're basically controlling

00:03:39   what the HomePod is playing.

00:03:40   And since there's native Apple Music support in the HomePod,

00:03:44   What you do is in the AirPlay menu,

00:03:48   Sam wrote in the music app,

00:03:49   AirPlay devices should appear at the bottom of the list

00:03:52   under the heading switch to.

00:03:53   And if you click that,

00:03:54   you are now controlling what the HomePod is playing

00:03:56   without AirPlay and the keyboard media keys still work,

00:04:00   he says, more on that in a second.

00:04:02   If you shut down the Mac,

00:04:03   the music will continue because no AirPlay is involved.

00:04:05   Yeah, so this is true when you can do this on iOS too.

00:04:09   I actually think this is one of the very confusing things

00:04:12   about music playback on all of Apple's devices

00:04:15   is that you have two ways of doing it.

00:04:17   You can do AirPlay or you can do this like

00:04:19   play via remote control.

00:04:21   And sometimes I find that that is handed off.

00:04:26   And so you get in weird device states.

00:04:28   I mentioned this last week where you've used,

00:04:31   you've AirPlayed music to the HomePod.

00:04:34   And now all of a sudden you realize that it's on the HomePod

00:04:37   and not on your phone anymore.

00:04:39   And your phone maybe sometimes gets confused.

00:04:42   And so then you press play and it plays the same thing

00:04:46   on your phone instead of what it's already playing.

00:04:49   It's very confusing.

00:04:50   So I don't know what the solution is there,

00:04:52   but I think it's very strange

00:04:54   that Apple has these two different modes

00:04:55   to do what is effectively the same thing

00:04:57   when it comes to something like playing music

00:04:59   from the music app.

00:05:00   - I mean, honestly, that is not surprising to me

00:05:02   with some of the stuff on the Mac, right?

00:05:03   Like I feel like there are a lot of things

00:05:05   like, hey, you can do it this way.

00:05:06   - But this is true on iOS too.

00:05:07   It's true on iOS.

00:05:08   The same thing applies on iOS, right?

00:05:09   You can AirPlay to that or you can switch to that.

00:05:12   And so you end up in this weird position

00:05:13   where you can like, you can play music on a HomePod

00:05:16   and then also switch where your current device is output to.

00:05:20   - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:21   - Right, and it's for a company

00:05:23   that doesn't wanna give people sound settings on iOS,

00:05:26   Apple has given people very complex sound modes on iOS.

00:05:31   So I don't know what's going on there.

00:05:33   I wanna zero in on,

00:05:34   and the keyboard media key still work though,

00:05:36   because this sent me down a rabbit hole this morning.

00:05:41   On the Mac, so you go to this mode where you switch to,

00:05:44   and basically the music app is controlling the HomePod,

00:05:48   but it's doing it remotely.

00:05:50   And like the HomePod is the one streaming the music

00:05:52   at that point, essentially,

00:05:53   which means if you shut down your Mac, as Sam said,

00:05:56   you, the music keeps going, great.

00:05:59   Your Mac crashes, whatever you need to restart,

00:06:00   you don't lose your playlist, great, theoretically.

00:06:02   But for example, I use the volume up and down keys

00:06:07   on my keyboard,

00:06:08   and they don't adjust the volume of the music,

00:06:11   they adjust my system volume.

00:06:13   I think Play/Pause will do the right thing,

00:06:16   but I'm not 100% sure about that

00:06:18   because as I mentioned in a previous episode,

00:06:20   I've turned that hardware keyboard off

00:06:22   because it kept getting bumped.

00:06:24   So I got better touch tool and literally I just said,

00:06:28   the Play/Pause next and previous just don't work anymore.

00:06:32   Please stop.

00:06:33   'Cause it was every time I pushed my keyboard tray in,

00:06:37   I was messing up my music.

00:06:39   It was not good.

00:06:40   So I have a bunch of keyboard maestro shortcuts

00:06:42   that do this instead, right?

00:06:43   Using those preferred keys that I've been using

00:06:45   since the 90s.

00:06:46   And they use AppleScript to control the music app.

00:06:49   And it works great.

00:06:50   You say, you know, you press, what is it?

00:06:52   Command + Option + Space, and it gets the mode.

00:06:56   It basically does a play/pause.

00:06:57   If it's playing, it pauses.

00:06:58   If it pauses, it plays.

00:07:00   And I also have ones for volume that say,

00:07:02   set the volume up five or down five.

00:07:05   and those work great.

00:07:08   Guess what happens when music's in airplane mode?

00:07:11   When music is in airplane mode,

00:07:13   none of the Apple script features work anymore

00:07:16   because they say music isn't playing.

00:07:19   What's happening?

00:07:20   Well, the music app is looking at the target,

00:07:23   which is the AirPlay device, the HomePod in this case,

00:07:27   and is remote controlling it.

00:07:29   But the scripting interface, as far as it's concerned,

00:07:34   the Mac isn't playing music,

00:07:36   so therefore it's not happening.

00:07:38   It's like this completely weird case.

00:07:40   And there is a way I found,

00:07:43   I looked around in script debugger

00:07:45   and found a way you could get the volume

00:07:49   of the target AirPlay device.

00:07:52   But if, and you can set that volume,

00:07:55   but it doesn't do anything.

00:07:58   Nothing happens when you set the volume.

00:07:59   It doesn't actually change.

00:08:01   The volume doesn't change, it remains the same.

00:08:02   Now, if I go to the slider in the music interface,

00:08:05   the music app interface itself,

00:08:07   and slide it up a little bit, it gets louder.

00:08:09   And if I run that script again

00:08:11   to tell me what the volume is,

00:08:13   it will show that it's louder,

00:08:14   but I can't actually set that.

00:08:16   So it's one of those cases where I can have,

00:08:20   I can choose between two different frustrating experiences

00:08:23   with HomePods on my Mac,

00:08:25   but neither of them is satisfactory.

00:08:27   And despite what Sam said,

00:08:29   essentially controlling everything easily

00:08:32   from the keyboard in that mode doesn't work

00:08:36   so far as I can tell.

00:08:38   So it may be more reliable,

00:08:41   although I did notice the first time I tried this

00:08:43   this morning using this different mode,

00:08:46   one of the HomePod still started playing the track

00:08:49   for a second just by itself.

00:08:50   And then the stereo pair popped in.

00:08:53   So some of this stuff is not any better,

00:08:56   but I would imagine it's probably more reliable.

00:08:58   The problem I have where I pause the music on my Mac

00:09:01   and then I come back 30 minutes later and press play

00:09:03   and it gets really confused about where the music

00:09:06   is supposed to go and sort of plays it into the void

00:09:08   or doesn't know how to play it

00:09:10   or plays it on the Mac speakers,

00:09:13   that would probably not happen

00:09:14   because once it's handed off to the HomePod,

00:09:16   I would imagine the HomePod is pretty resilient.

00:09:19   But if I can't control my music playback

00:09:23   including immediate volume control

00:09:26   and play and pause the next track

00:09:28   from the keyboard of my Mac,

00:09:30   it's not gonna work, like I'm not gonna do that.

00:09:32   So this is just a separate way to be frustrated,

00:09:36   an alternate path of frustration for playing back music

00:09:40   via two AirPlay devices on the Mac.

00:09:42   So hooray.

00:09:43   - There's no, it doesn't feel like there's a resolution

00:09:45   to this, there isn't, they don't feel like

00:09:47   anything's improved for you.

00:09:49   - No, not, this method does not improve things at all.

00:09:53   It's a non-starter as long as I can't control it via keyboard.

00:09:57   So the other method is probably

00:09:59   what I will keep trying to use.

00:10:00   and hoping maybe it gets a little better or at least that it is not entirely annoying.

00:10:04   Just for those who didn't hear me say this last time, I'm not interested in putting bookshelf

00:10:09   speakers on my desk and running a cable. If I wanted to do that, I'd just go back to the iPod

00:10:15   HiFi, honestly. My goal here is to get some speakers that are probably off my desk on either

00:10:21   side of the room, which is where the Sonos' are, and use wireless technology to get a nice separate

00:10:26   thing. Adding more wires to the audio setup in my office is something I desperately do not want to do.

00:10:33   So, you know, but then that said, it's not great. And it has to be Apple Music, right? You don't

00:10:39   want to switch to Spotify or something. Yeah, that's not going to happen. It's going to be

00:10:43   Apple Music. And in fact, I'm also not going to wire up the Sonos Player app on my Mac and start

00:10:51   using that full time to play music to the Sonos speakers. I'm not going to do that either. I'm

00:10:54   I'm gonna use the music app because that's what I'm comfortable with. So we'll see if

00:10:59   it gets better, but right now it's just, you know, I was excited about this. I'm like,

00:11:05   "Oh yeah, that is a different mode. I wonder how that works." And, you know, the solution

00:11:08   here is that that should be controllable. It shouldn't be any different because you're

00:11:14   literally, it's the active device in the music app. You should be able to say pause. You

00:11:19   should be able to say volume up and have it work. And they wired it into the interface,

00:11:24   but it's not wired into the remote control, the scripting interface.

00:11:27   That functionality is really reliable when you do it from the iPhone.

00:11:31   Like using the iPhone's up and down volume controls then controls the HomePod's volume.

00:11:38   For as long as it lasts.

00:11:39   Yeah, I mean it can disconnect sometimes and get frustrating, but yeah, it's pretty reliable.

00:11:47   And all I want is I want my keyboard controls, which are not the standard controls, but as

00:11:52   As I said, the volume doesn't actually change the volume of the speakers.

00:11:55   It changes the volume coming out of my iMac speaker, which is not helpful because there's

00:12:01   no music coming out of the iMac speaker.

00:12:04   Just on like a tangential thing, the hotel that we're in, the TVs have built in Chromecast

00:12:09   support.

00:12:10   I really like the way Chromecast works.

00:12:12   I much prefer it to AirPlay because your device doesn't need to be doing anything.

00:12:17   You can just continue using your device as normal, and then the app that you're casting

00:12:21   from just has some like we use in Netflix.

00:12:23   Yeah.

00:12:24   And you just basically what you're saying is like, "Hey, TV, just go and get this Netflix

00:12:28   thing."

00:12:29   Mm-hmm.

00:12:30   But it's just so much easier than like needing to sign in or anything.

00:12:32   And then the Netflix app just gets some play/pause controls.

00:12:35   I really like it.

00:12:36   Like AirPlay I've always found a bit like, "Am I allowed to use my device anymore when

00:12:41   I'm AirPlaying?"

00:12:42   See, that's—I will say I think that that's gotten a lot better on AirPlay because I've

00:12:45   had a couple of cases recently where I've used AirPlay because I've been in places where

00:12:49   there's an AirPlay TV because so many TVs now have AirPlay support. And this happened

00:12:54   this weekend at my in-laws place. Like, they have a TCL TV, kind of like mine, it's a Roku,

00:13:00   and it's got AirPlay support. And so I was able to take my Fubo TV, so my over-the-top

00:13:07   streaming to like a cable channel that they didn't get, and just put it on their TV, and

00:13:13   it worked fine. And I was able to do that and still use my iPad, and it ran for, you

00:13:18   know an hour plus and it wasn't a problem. So I think that that can get

00:13:23   better. You know there's more going on there but I agree the

00:13:28   either way the the ideal scenario and we're getting toward it especially if

00:13:33   you're in a place where there's a TV and you want to put things from your

00:13:36   computer on your or your device on your TV to watch it you should be able to do

00:13:42   that without logging into something on the TV without like you should just be

00:13:47   able to go put this there and Chromecast and I think Airplay are getting closer to that

00:13:52   goal.

00:13:53   The upgrade is, Jason.

00:13:56   It's almost December, which means we are entering upgradey, peak upgradey season, peak.

00:14:03   It's always upgradey season.

00:14:04   In the past couple of days, I've discovered how difficult it is to spell the word eighth.

00:14:10   Yes.

00:14:11   That's a tricky one because we are doing the 8th annual Upgradies and the voting is open.

00:14:17   Go to Upgradies.vote and you can submit your nominations, your votes

00:14:21   for the Upgradies award winners for 2021 in the 8th annual Upgradies.

00:14:29   If you want to find previous winners and maybe get some inspiration,

00:14:32   we have a history of every single Upgrady award given over at Upgradies.com,

00:14:38   which is managed and maintained by the wonderful Zach Knox of Moderator and our Discord.

00:14:43   But you can go to, if you want to vote, there's a Google form. Go to Upgradies.Vote.

00:14:47   Voting will close on Tuesday, December 21st, and the episode will be released,

00:14:53   the eighth annual Upgradies episode will be released on December 27th.

00:14:57   So between the 21st and the 27th, we will be tabulating your results and we will be using,

00:15:02   and as I mentioned it again, we'll mention it many times, your nominations,

00:15:06   they are guides, they are help, they are indicators for us.

00:15:11   Me and Jason ultimately pick the award winners

00:15:13   for each category, but we very much need your help

00:15:16   sometimes to break a tie, and often,

00:15:18   because there are some categories where we don't have any,

00:15:22   like I was looking through it, so in case you're familiar,

00:15:25   one of our categories is best movie, and I'm thinking like,

00:15:28   I don't know if I've seen a movie this year.

00:15:30   - Right, well, so yeah, the upgrade is nominees

00:15:33   from the listeners serve a couple of purposes.

00:15:35   One is to remind us or point out something

00:15:38   we should check out, right?

00:15:39   Like that's very helpful because you always,

00:15:42   I'll tell you, I get to the end of this process

00:15:44   and then I listen to some other podcasts awards

00:15:47   or I read Federico's awards on Mac stories, you know,

00:15:50   and I'll be like, oh, right, I forgot that one, right?

00:15:55   And that's terrible.

00:15:56   So we instituted this nomination process

00:15:58   and the collective wisdom of the upgradients

00:16:02   helps a great deal.

00:16:03   And then the second part of the process,

00:16:04   which you mentioned in passing,

00:16:06   is this makes the listeners basically the third person

00:16:11   in the room to discuss who wins.

00:16:15   We include the preferences of the listeners

00:16:17   as part of what we're doing.

00:16:19   And so that is very helpful

00:16:23   'cause sometimes we disagree

00:16:25   or we don't have a strong opinion

00:16:26   and the opinion of the listeners can be very, very helpful.

00:16:31   - So don't forget, you wanna get your nominations in

00:16:34   Sooner the better, why not? Go to Upgradies.vote and you can get your nominations in and we'll be

00:16:39   recording and publishing an episode. I think it's going to be our last episode of the year this year.

00:16:44   Well, unless there's a surprise Apple event later that week or something. So that's literally the

00:16:51   last Monday of 2021. So that's our last episode. This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Setapp.

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00:18:35   Our thanks to Setapp for their support of this show

00:18:38   and Relay FM.

00:18:39   All right, so Apple put out a press release kind of thing

00:18:44   where they're talking about the fact

00:18:46   that they're going to be suing the NSO Group.

00:18:50   The NSO Group makes the Pegasus software,

00:18:53   I don't know if you call it software,

00:18:54   I can't think of the right term for this.

00:18:56   - It's like spyware, but it is software.

00:18:58   spyware. This was being used by a number of governments to spy on people in the media

00:19:03   and political opponents. This is a big news story from a few months ago. Apple has decided

00:19:10   to take legal action against them because of these exploitation of security flaws. They

00:19:17   want to make the NSO group take responsibility for how their software is misused, even though

00:19:21   they claim it's provided only to trustworthy government bodies.

00:19:28   there are lots of governments that have used it to do these terrible things.

00:19:31   Apple's able to go after the NSO group because they broke Apple's terms and

00:19:37   conditions by creating a bunch of fake iCloud accounts to test their exploits,

00:19:41   which is a really interesting way. It's like they need grounds, right, to try and

00:19:45   sue them. This is the case that they're building and they've broken the terms

00:19:49   and conditions so they're going to take them to court, but this is just a way in

00:19:53   in for them to go after them, right? That's what it is.

00:19:56   Yeah, this is, uh, you agree, uh, when you sign up for an iCloud account, you agree to

00:20:01   very many things, including, um, having the core, like abiding by California law, uh,

00:20:07   all sorts of stuff like that. Uh, Apple, uh, will be also donating $10

00:20:12   million as well as any of the damages from the lawsuit to organizations pursuing cyber

00:20:16   surveillance research and advocacy, like Citizen Lab and Amnesty Tech. Uh, I thought this was

00:20:22   really interesting because NSO I was reading it and so apparently already in

00:20:25   some financial trouble right my expectation is Apple's just attempting

00:20:29   to bankrupt them like that's the yeah the path and my my take on it when this

00:20:34   first happened I posted something really quick to six colors and what I said was

00:20:40   this feels to me like Apple has the ability because they have all the money

00:20:44   to just spend lots of money on very expensive very good lawyers to make to

00:20:51   inflict as much pain in NSO group as possible. And this is like one of those cases where,

00:20:57   you know, so often the story is, "Oh, the deep-pocketed corporation is impervious to your

00:21:03   claims as a consumer because they can just pay their lawyers and it's not worth it for you to

00:21:10   sue them or you need to settle or whatever." This is a case where it's sort of the reverse kind of

00:21:15   story where they can just keep this going and inflict maximum harm in the legal system

00:21:23   on this company. And that seems to be my view from that press release and all that is that's

00:21:29   what is going to happen here. They're going to make life as difficult as possible for

00:21:33   NSO Group.

00:21:34   - And you know what, I say good.

00:21:37   This stuff shouldn't exist.

00:21:39   This stuff just should not exist.

00:21:40   - This is a company, yeah, it's had trouble.

00:21:42   It's an Israel-based company,

00:21:46   but the whole idea here is at some point,

00:21:49   if there's a corporation that literally

00:21:50   their entire business is to find exploits

00:21:54   in popular computer operating systems

00:21:57   and sell them to the highest bidder

00:21:59   to do awful things with them,

00:22:02   It's hard to see how a company like that

00:22:06   is allowed to stay in business outside of a country

00:22:11   that is itself lawless, right?

00:22:14   And so it's hard to see how that's gonna happen

00:22:18   with an MSO group.

00:22:20   - I remember at the time when this was happening,

00:22:24   I had this kind of thought in my mind of like,

00:22:25   why isn't Apple doing anything about this?

00:22:28   And I guess they had to try and find a way, right?

00:22:30   Like, maybe what they're doing is not necessarily inherently illegal, right?

00:22:35   They had to find some kind of grounds to pursue them.

00:22:40   And I'm pleased that they found them.

00:22:41   Yeah.

00:22:42   And, you know, it's complicated.

00:22:44   It's complicated.

00:22:45   And there are other cases where this exact same strategy would make us feel uncomfortable.

00:22:50   But this is a company that literally profits on selling security exploits to awful governments

00:22:57   who want to expose people who are opposed

00:23:01   to their authoritarian regime, right?

00:23:04   It's dissidents and opponents in other countries

00:23:09   and it's just, it's ugly and makes devices less secure.

00:23:14   So I'm up for this.

00:23:17   - There's no way to do the ideal, right?

00:23:21   Like the ideal is like, oh, this software

00:23:22   is only used to find terrorists, right?

00:23:25   Like, there's an ideal idea in that.

00:23:28   It's like, oh, if that was the case, sure, okay,

00:23:30   I'll allow it.

00:23:31   But that's just not the way that these things are done.

00:23:34   Like, you create any tools and someone's gonna misuse it.

00:23:37   And the way that this can be misused is pretty terrible.

00:23:39   So.

00:23:41   - Yeah.

00:23:41   - When, moving on, when the Apple Silicon Macs were coming

00:23:47   out, we were all wondering what the future of Bootcamp was

00:23:49   because it didn't seem like Apple was going to continue

00:23:52   making Bootcamp.

00:23:53   And also, right, like we needed Windows on ARM

00:23:56   and it kind of wasn't Windows on ARM at the time.

00:23:59   And that started to change Windows's running

00:24:01   on more and more ARM machines,

00:24:02   but there was no kind of indication

00:24:05   that we would be able to get a native version

00:24:07   of Windows running on Apple Silicon.

00:24:09   There was a quote that Craig Federighi gave

00:24:11   like in an interview where they kind of just like,

00:24:12   yeah, we're fine with it,

00:24:14   but it's up to Microsoft. - Up to Microsoft.

00:24:16   - And it seemed like a kind of a weird thing

00:24:19   for Microsoft to be dragging their heels over, right?

00:24:21   Like this is their whole business,

00:24:22   Like why not just sell it to more people?

00:24:24   Well, it turns out that Qualcomm

00:24:26   currently has an exclusive agreement with Microsoft.

00:24:29   - Turns out that part of the deal

00:24:33   to get Microsoft Windows to run on Qualcomm's ARM processors

00:24:38   was an exclusivity window,

00:24:41   which leads me to believe that Qualcomm

00:24:44   basically paid Microsoft or cut a deal with Microsoft

00:24:49   that involved a discount.

00:24:50   Money changed hands.

00:24:52   - Or did the work for Microsoft.

00:24:54   - Or did the work for Microsoft.

00:24:55   So money changed hands, I think for sure.

00:24:57   And that's fair.

00:24:59   That's perfectly reasonable.

00:25:00   It actually reminds me a little bit

00:25:01   of the whole iPhone exclusivity with AT&T, right?

00:25:04   That it was a, we're getting this off the ground

00:25:08   and we need you as a partner.

00:25:09   So we're gonna give you an exclusivity arrangement.

00:25:12   But this report that's out there,

00:25:15   which is lightly sourced,

00:25:19   It's from xdadevelopers.com,

00:25:23   but this report says that it is expiring soon.

00:25:29   That's all we really know.

00:25:33   And I've said all along, and I continue to say

00:25:36   that I think it is inevitable

00:25:38   that Windows 4 ARM processors will run on Apple Silicon.

00:25:43   I don't know about bootcamp.

00:25:46   Bootcamp's not impossible because of the way

00:25:48   that Apple architected bootcamp on Macs

00:25:51   with the T2 chip in them.

00:25:53   There's a secure signed operating system process

00:25:56   and they support Windows secure signed boot

00:26:00   just as they do Mac OS.

00:26:02   So like, I think Apple is fine with it, essentially.

00:26:06   Like if you wanna do that, go right ahead.

00:26:08   So if there's a way to technically make it work

00:26:10   on Apple Silicon in bootcamp, great.

00:26:12   But I think that more broadly, this is that moment

00:26:15   where Microsoft can finally make available

00:26:18   an official version of Windows

00:26:21   that runs natively on ARM processors

00:26:23   to be used with something like Parallels or VMware

00:26:27   on Apple Silicon Mac so it runs at full speed.

00:26:30   Now keep in mind, it is the ARM version of Windows,

00:26:33   not the regular Intel version of Windows.

00:26:36   I think Apple, the,

00:26:39   oh no, it was a VMware.

00:26:42   Somebody said basically,

00:26:43   we're gonna let Microsoft handle the translation layer,

00:26:46   right, but Microsoft has to build

00:26:47   an Intel translation layer for Windows itself,

00:26:49   and so that would run,

00:26:51   and so you should be able to run Intel stuff

00:26:53   on Windows for ARM.

00:26:55   So it's all kind of coming together,

00:26:58   and I think this will be,

00:27:00   I think it'll be a real thing.

00:27:01   Right now you can sign up for like the test version

00:27:06   through their like early release program,

00:27:08   and then just put that in Parallels

00:27:10   on an Apple Silicon Mac, and it works fine.

00:27:13   it works just fine.

00:27:14   But I think Microsoft is not allowed, it looks like,

00:27:18   from this deal to do anything but bundle it

00:27:21   with ARM systems running Qualcomm processors.

00:27:26   And when that deal ends, we may see this resolved quickly.

00:27:30   And that's the goal.

00:27:31   I mean, ideally what you want is the ability

00:27:33   to get VMware Fusion or Parallels desktop

00:27:36   and even potentially just buy ARM windows from them

00:27:42   or from Microsoft directly.

00:27:44   And I think it will happen.

00:27:46   And this is just another sign of why it hasn't yet,

00:27:48   but it just feels inevitable to me

00:27:50   because you look at what Apple wants

00:27:51   and what Microsoft wants,

00:27:52   and like there's no reason that they would

00:27:54   not want their customers to be happy, right?

00:27:58   Their joint customers to get what they need,

00:28:02   which is the ability to run Microsoft's operating system

00:28:05   on a piece of Apple hardware.

00:28:06   Like everybody wins in that scenario.

00:28:08   I mean, except for Qualcomm and Intel,

00:28:11   but that's okay, they don't care.

00:28:13   - I mean, Qualcomm's fine.

00:28:15   Intel's, you know, like Qualcomm's still gonna

00:28:17   make the chips, right?

00:28:17   - Yeah, I meant, you know,

00:28:19   Microsoft and Apple don't care,

00:28:20   I guess is what I'm saying. - No.

00:28:21   - It's like in the end, Microsoft and Apple

00:28:23   just wanna make their customers happy,

00:28:25   and this makes them happy.

00:28:26   And I know that people who are thinking about

00:28:28   the old days of Apple and Microsoft

00:28:29   may think differently about this,

00:28:31   but it's, everybody is gonna want this,

00:28:35   and so they'll give it to them.

00:28:38   - That is Microsoft's business model now.

00:28:41   Like let's give everything to everybody

00:28:43   all of the time, make them pay for it.

00:28:44   - Yeah, and we already have seen,

00:28:46   I mean, you could say, well, they don't want,

00:28:47   Qualcomm doesn't want those benchmark tests

00:28:50   that are disappointing 'cause they show how far ahead

00:28:53   Apple is with their own processors than Qualcomm is.

00:28:56   Well, that's true, but there already been stories,

00:28:59   you know, using VMware or using Parallels on Apple Silicon.

00:29:04   There already been those stories.

00:29:05   So, you know, it's an Apple is ahead of them.

00:29:09   So, you know, that's just how it is.

00:29:12   So anyway, yeah, I'm not super excited about this

00:29:15   because there's not a lot I use Windows for,

00:29:17   even though I do have bootcamp on my iMac,

00:29:19   but I know it will be meaningful for a bunch of people.

00:29:23   - So I've done something that I haven't done for a while.

00:29:25   A lot of people haven't done for a while,

00:29:27   which is travel, like big travel.

00:29:28   - Yes.

00:29:30   - So across the globe travel.

00:29:32   And I have some tech travel observations.

00:29:35   I remember when people talked about tech travel.

00:29:39   - We used to do this. - What?

00:29:40   - We haven't done this in a long time.

00:29:42   And a lot of my technology has changed.

00:29:44   So one MacBook Pro, 14 inch MacBook Pro,

00:29:48   go to sitting right here in front of me today.

00:29:50   I love all the power.

00:29:51   I'm excited to edit on this afterwards

00:29:53   'cause I'm not gonna be able to get things done quickly,

00:29:55   actually faster than my M1 iMac at the studio.

00:30:00   I'm enjoying the additional screen space.

00:30:02   What I will say is this is a big thick bulky laptop.

00:30:05   It is, I notice it in my bag.

00:30:08   My bag is a little tight with this thing in it.

00:30:10   - We talked about this when we saw each other on Saturday.

00:30:13   I said, I got the MacBook Pro with me

00:30:17   and I got to send it back.

00:30:18   Actually, probably in the next week or so,

00:30:20   I got to send that back to Apple.

00:30:21   It's my review unit.

00:30:22   I asked them for an extension

00:30:24   so that I could travel with it a little bit.

00:30:25   I took it to Arizona and I took it with me

00:30:27   to Southern California this week or last week.

00:30:29   So yeah, it's big and heavy.

00:30:33   It's so great.

00:30:34   but as somebody who has traveled with a MacBook Air

00:30:36   for a very long time and then an iPad

00:30:39   when I wasn't traveling with a MacBook Air, it's a lot.

00:30:42   That said, it is also all the power of a desktop,

00:30:47   basically, in that thing.

00:30:49   And that is, you look at, and this is the,

00:30:52   this is ultimately, this is the trade-off

00:30:55   between MacBook Pro and MacBook Air, is this,

00:30:57   which is, do you want it to be lighter and thinner

00:31:01   and just not take up as much space

00:31:03   and not weigh down your bag and are willing to have it not be the full-on high-performance

00:31:11   desktop experience? Or do you not care about the size and the weight because you just really

00:31:16   want to have the high-performance desktop experience everywhere you go? And that's the

00:31:20   trade-off. And I was talking to you about how, as we were leaving, it was sort of like

00:31:25   I keep telling myself reasons why I can't buy the MacBook Pro, including the fact that

00:31:31   My son's going to college next year, and so I'm going to buy him a brand new laptop then.

00:31:36   So I can't even do my "Oh, I'll roll down my existing MacBook Air to other members of

00:31:41   my family" trick.

00:31:42   That's not going to work because I'm going to still have to buy him a new laptop.

00:31:46   But the truth is that for me, which is it is kind of a load, and I'm not sure I really

00:31:52   need it when I'm traveling because my needs when I'm traveling are not that intense.

00:31:56   But it is great, like having spent this time with it.

00:32:02   The screen is great.

00:32:03   Again, I keep saying we don't pay attention to the screen because we got that processor,

00:32:08   the M1 Pro and M1 Max, and it makes such a huge difference.

00:32:13   And the look of it is different.

00:32:15   And there's a notch that we can all talk about.

00:32:17   But that screen is just gorgeous.

00:32:20   So I do love it, even though I'm almost certainly not getting one as much as it would be fun

00:32:26   to get one. This has also been my first trip with my iPad mini. This is the only iPad that

00:32:32   I brought with me. This is my iPad now and it didn't bring any of the larger ones. I found the

00:32:37   iPad mini to be excellent for watching movies on a plane because it's really small and it fits onto

00:32:41   any tray table, any space, right? And also my iPad Pro always had the magic keyboard and I wouldn't

00:32:48   bring an extra smart cover, so that was just the cover. And the magic keyboard would make the iPad

00:32:53   pro like difficult to place on a plane sometimes, but because the iPad mini just has the smart

00:32:58   cover it's perfect and smart covers are so good for video watching and just make the iPad mini

00:33:03   really great for that. I'm surprised when I've heard several people say this but especially you

00:33:09   about the smart cover because I always use a smart cover and I only use the keyboard when I want to

00:33:17   use the keyboard and the this is the reason is that the smart cover for most use if you're not

00:33:22   typing is really nice and it's light and it lets you put it in all the right little angles

00:33:30   and it's great. So, and I agree the smart cover on the mini is nice too.

00:33:34   And what I will say the 256 gig that's what I got. I got tons of content on that which

00:33:39   is awesome. I'm very pleased that I got the larger one because I've just put like loads

00:33:43   and loads of video stuff on there. The mini is difficult for using outside in the sun.

00:33:50   screen doesn't get as bright. Like it's tricky for me to be able to read on it, especially

00:33:55   if I'm wearing sunglasses. And my iPhone I can deal with, but the mini just doesn't seem

00:33:59   to get bright enough for me. Which, you know, if you want to read, you know, it can be tricky,

00:34:05   but I think this still kind of reinforces like if reading, if you're going to read a

00:34:09   book, you're going to get an e-reader, right? Like that's the, it's probably still going

00:34:12   to be the thing for a very, very, very long time.

00:34:14   That you want to read outside, e-reader is the way to do. Go read my review of e-readers

00:34:19   on sixcolors.com.

00:34:20   - We're gonna get to that at some point.

00:34:21   I wanna talk about easy readers of you at some point.

00:34:23   - Yeah.

00:34:24   - But yeah, it's the glossy screens too.

00:34:26   They just reflect the light and it just makes it

00:34:29   not an awesome experience for using outside.

00:34:31   I've also, this is the longest trip that I've taken

00:34:35   with my AirPods Max.

00:34:36   I continue to love the way that they sound.

00:34:40   They're great, like the noise cancellation is excellent

00:34:44   on an airplane, like it just cuts all the noise out.

00:34:47   And I wore them basically the entire 11 hours of the flight and found it very comfortable.

00:34:52   The only problem is they take up a ton of space. Like they don't close down. Like Adina has those

00:34:59   Sony ones, like the over-ear Sony ones that everybody loves. And the case is really small

00:35:03   because they fold up. But the AirPods Pro don't do that. And plus the case that they come with,

00:35:08   I'm not comfortable with the protection that they provide. So Underscore David Smith had this case,

00:35:14   I saw it and I bought it, it was on Amazon.

00:35:17   It's like a hard shell case, which is great

00:35:19   because then you also, it has a little space.

00:35:21   I put the ridiculously expensive cable in there

00:35:24   if you want to plug it into a headphone jack

00:35:25   that it goes into, but it's huge.

00:35:28   It's just so big.

00:35:30   And so it works for what I want,

00:35:32   but it takes up tons of space in my bag.

00:35:35   That's kind of my only knock on them.

00:35:37   I wish they would have made them more foldable

00:35:40   and more compact as a way to travel with them.

00:35:42   I get the feeling that AirPods Max is gonna get a revision at some point here that addresses

00:35:47   a whole lot of things that are not quite right with the first version.

00:35:51   I would expect so.

00:35:52   Yeah.

00:35:53   Yeah.

00:35:54   And I'm using them for podcast recording today.

00:35:55   I have the little cable, the lightning to audio cable.

00:35:59   I find it very weird.

00:36:01   So transparency, I hate transparency mode for recording, I found out, because I hear

00:36:06   myself way too much.

00:36:07   Yeah.

00:36:08   - Well, and you've got your voice feeding back to you anyway

00:36:11   so you don't need to hear it again.

00:36:15   - Which is why it's weird because, you know,

00:36:18   which I said the way you set it up,

00:36:19   like I hear my own microphone a little bit in my ears,

00:36:22   which is helpful for recording.

00:36:24   So I also, then I get a double, which it doesn't sound right.

00:36:28   Noise cancellation doesn't work.

00:36:30   I don't know why it feels strange.

00:36:31   So I've got it set to off,

00:36:33   but these, it just feels different.

00:36:37   the seal is much more intense than the seal on my usual headphones.

00:36:41   And so it feels a bit disorienting today to record these on.

00:36:44   Alright, that's what it sounds like me all the time because I got the in-ear monitor

00:36:47   so they're completely blocks off the sound and so the world is kind of dropped off other

00:36:52   than what I can hear of my own voice through the microphone.

00:36:55   But my usual headphones, I use the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro, that's the headphones that I use.

00:37:00   They also have a good seal to them.

00:37:01   It's just different.

00:37:02   I think it's just because it feels different.

00:37:03   I'm finding it like a little disorientating, but I'm happy with it.

00:37:07   Because I didn't want to pack two pairs of headphones to travel with.

00:37:10   And you haven't done a lot of remote recording the last couple of years.

00:37:13   So this would be the first one.

00:37:16   I also, this is not exciting for anyone, maybe except me and you.

00:37:20   I upgraded some of my audio gear.

00:37:22   I got a new, better travel stand and a really small XLR cable.

00:37:26   That was a life hack for me.

00:37:28   Because I usually take like one of my, yes, a tiny one.

00:37:31   It's a tiny little XLR cable.

00:37:32   I would usually bring like a big full, I don't know,

00:37:35   couple of meter one or whatever.

00:37:36   Just one of the ones I had in my audio gear kind of closet,

00:37:39   but I bought a really tiny XLR cable this time,

00:37:41   which is making cable management.

00:37:43   - I have one of those and it's great.

00:37:45   Cause yeah, you don't have this giant cable

00:37:46   that you don't need because you only need to record,

00:37:48   connect two little tiny things together.

00:37:51   I've done that.

00:37:52   I've got some short USB-C cables too, same thing,

00:37:55   which like this doesn't need to be,

00:37:56   I don't need to carry all that wire.

00:37:59   - Speaking of USB-C,

00:38:01   I have an observation.

00:38:03   The international charging is becoming more complicated

00:38:06   because all of my cables are USB-C cables now,

00:38:10   but hotels have USB-A ports in them.

00:38:12   - Yeah.

00:38:16   - So like I previously I had USB to USB-C, right?

00:38:20   'Cause that's what Apple was shipping with everything

00:38:22   or USB to Lightning.

00:38:23   Now it's all USB-C to USB-C or USB-C to Lightning.

00:38:27   So I can't plug my newer cables

00:38:29   into any of the wall sockets

00:38:30   unless I have the full on wall thing

00:38:32   with the adapters and stuff,

00:38:33   which I don't bring as many of those

00:38:35   'cause they're too bulky.

00:38:36   And so I go, I've arrived and I'm like,

00:38:38   "Ah, I don't have the right cables anymore."

00:38:40   So I feel like I need USB,

00:38:42   like some kind of USB-A to USB-C dongle for hotels now.

00:38:47   - Dongle town hotel, you can check in anytime you like,

00:38:51   but you can never--

00:38:52   - 'Cause I thought that like,

00:38:53   oh, I will change all my cables to USB-C cables now,

00:38:57   because now I only have to have one cable type.

00:39:00   but then it's great for if I have using the power bricks,

00:39:03   but I can't always use all the power bricks.

00:39:05   So there we go.

00:39:07   - I have a footnote here too.

00:39:08   One is I always travel with a, an adapter,

00:39:13   USB adapter thing of some kind,

00:39:15   but I realized that for you, it's a bigger challenge

00:39:17   because you don't have the right plug type.

00:39:19   So it gets even more complicated for international travel.

00:39:22   I will say I recently changed my,

00:39:27   And my method was I actually have the same adapter

00:39:30   by my bed and I just unplug it and take it with me

00:39:35   when I travel.

00:39:38   That's been a method that I've enjoyed a lot

00:39:40   because it means that I always know exactly what it is

00:39:43   and where it is and what it's plugged into.

00:39:45   I recently bought a new thing that I traveled with

00:39:50   the last couple of times that's pretty great.

00:39:55   It's a, it's a, it's a gallium, you know,

00:39:58   it's a GaN charger.

00:39:59   So it's super tiny.

00:40:02   It's got all the GaNs in there.

00:40:04   And it's two USB and a U, two USB-C and a USB-A.

00:40:09   - Is that from an Anker product?

00:40:10   - This one is TechNet.

00:40:13   - TechNet.

00:40:14   - So who knows what that is?

00:40:17   (laughing)

00:40:19   But it is,

00:40:24   you know, it's real small.

00:40:25   I mean, I guess that's my point is that the other ones

00:40:27   I've used have been like an anchor one,

00:40:29   and it's a big block with a long cable

00:40:31   snaking out of it to go somewhere.

00:40:33   And this one is a flip down 'cause it's the US, right?

00:40:37   So it's a flip down the two prongs, plug it in,

00:40:39   and you get two USB-C and a USB-A.

00:40:42   And that, for my purposes, that's all I really need

00:40:46   in terms of like iPad, iPhone, Apple Watch.

00:40:51   And so that's been a nice little addition too,

00:40:54   to my little travel.

00:40:55   - Yeah, maybe I just need to get,

00:40:57   I have one of these, I have an Anker one for the UK.

00:41:00   It's really great.

00:41:01   I use it in the studio to charge those things, right?

00:41:03   Like to have a iPhone and iPad,

00:41:06   I found an Apple Watch dock I have on my desk.

00:41:09   And then I have just like an extra port

00:41:10   for like a cable to plug stuff in.

00:41:12   Maybe I need a US version of one of those.

00:41:14   And then that will just be everything that I need.

00:41:16   - I was gonna say,

00:41:18   invest in your future return to the US, get one of those.

00:41:23   You should get one of those and just ship it to yourself

00:41:25   while you're here in America.

00:41:27   - I might do that actually.

00:41:28   - And use it for the rest of your trip.

00:41:30   But-

00:41:31   - But I kind of have enough for now,

00:41:33   but it's just like, I was, yeah,

00:41:36   I had it all set before COVID, right?

00:41:38   Like because we were USB-A everywhere and now-

00:41:41   - If the hotels have taught us anything,

00:41:45   if Hotel D'Angleton has taught us anything,

00:41:47   It's that we can convert our lives to a new cable standard,

00:41:52   but the hotels will always be five to seven years behind.

00:41:56   Right?

00:41:57   - It's like, how long did we see the 30 pin connector

00:41:59   around in hotels?

00:41:59   - I stayed in a hotel in Colorado a couple months ago

00:42:04   that still had a dock connector.

00:42:06   And I was like, what is happening?

00:42:10   It's like a horror movie, right?

00:42:12   It's like the dock connector is in the building.

00:42:17   So yeah, it's uh, it's we can control our own lives, but we can't control what the what's in the hotels

00:42:22   So that's why I always travel with so because yeah, the last thing you want to do is then

00:42:25   Carry a bunch of usb ac

00:42:28   Connector dongle-y things with you. That's no good

00:42:31   No good

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00:44:54   Let's talk about shortcuts for the Macintosh OS.

00:44:57   So you have published article after article about this and I've been saving them all up

00:45:03   because I wanted to talk about it probably this week

00:45:05   because didn't wanna spend a ton of time

00:45:08   trawling through all the news this week

00:45:09   because I am on holiday.

00:45:11   - Exactly.

00:45:11   - So we're gonna talk about shortcuts.

00:45:13   Can we talk about like kind of like an overall perspective?

00:45:18   What have you been trying out with macOS?

00:45:21   Like you're trying to make some of your shortcuts

00:45:23   go across platform, right?

00:45:24   That you're using on iOS as well?

00:45:26   - Yeah, I mean, it's a couple of things going on there.

00:45:28   One is, can I,

00:45:30   Some of the things that I've built for iOS

00:45:33   are really convenient and I'd like to replicate them.

00:45:36   And I've tried to replicate some of them using

00:45:38   different means using services and keyboard maestro

00:45:43   and things like that.

00:45:44   And I wanted to see, could I make one version of this

00:45:47   that runs on my iPad, my iPhone and my Mac?

00:45:51   And so I've done that a little bit,

00:45:52   which has challenges, right?

00:45:55   Because there are just kind of holes in macOS

00:45:59   in Mac OS actually, where there are actions

00:46:04   that are not available.

00:46:05   And I know you talked about this with Federico on connected.

00:46:10   They're like Safari especially, but like the share sheet

00:46:17   on Mac OS is not a real share sheet.

00:46:20   And so you end up having to do these things

00:46:23   that I've been doing, where it's sort of like,

00:46:25   If device is Mac, do this, otherwise do that.

00:46:29   And it would be taken to its most ridiculous extreme.

00:46:32   You'd literally have two totally separate things

00:46:35   in the if and else statements.

00:46:37   And at that point, why are you even doing it?

00:46:40   But the truth is that a lot of the work is the same.

00:46:44   And they're just very specific actions where you go,

00:46:47   "Oh, I can't do this on the Mac," in shortcuts.

00:46:52   So you end up doing, if it's on the Mac,

00:46:54   you run this Apple script,

00:46:57   you know, do this other thing, get the result.

00:47:00   And then on iOS, it just runs these actions

00:47:02   and gets the result and then continue

00:47:03   with whatever that result is on whichever platform

00:47:06   you get it to, you kind of build it to have that little block

00:47:10   throw out the same bit of information

00:47:13   by two totally different means.

00:47:15   So you can do that.

00:47:17   So that was my first step was really like,

00:47:20   can I take my shortcuts and make them

00:47:24   run my iOS shortcuts and make them run on the Mac.

00:47:26   And that was pretty successful, I have to say.

00:47:29   I was able to do that in a fairly short amount of time

00:47:32   once I figured out some methods of working around

00:47:35   some of the peculiarities of the Mac,

00:47:37   especially of Safari, not wanting to give me information.

00:47:41   And then I moved on to the second step,

00:47:42   which is could I take my automations

00:47:44   that I built in AppleScript and Automator on the Mac

00:47:47   and make shortcuts out of that?

00:47:49   That was step two.

00:47:50   - So you're saying about some of the things

00:47:52   that are missing, 'cause it's easy to think

00:47:54   that it's apps that are missing.

00:47:56   You know, like certain apps use an iOS

00:47:58   that don't have Mac components,

00:47:59   or they haven't integrated shortcuts for the Mac.

00:48:02   But as you mentioned, there is also stuff

00:48:03   that just isn't in this operating system.

00:48:06   Like there's things you can't do with Safari.

00:48:08   But I did wanna know, are you having to get any workarounds

00:48:12   for applications that aren't available?

00:48:14   Like are you having to rewrite some shortcuts

00:48:17   to use different methods?

00:48:19   - Yeah, I mean, that happens, right?

00:48:22   There are things that you can do in a particular app on iOS

00:48:27   and that app's not on the Mac,

00:48:28   or I don't use that app on the Mac.

00:48:30   But a lot of it is,

00:48:32   I mean, that's the brilliance of user automation on the Mac,

00:48:35   is that most of the stuff you can get

00:48:39   via command line or Apple script, right?

00:48:43   Not everything, but a lot of things you can get.

00:48:45   And so on iOS, you have to have an,

00:48:48   give me an action that does this.

00:48:50   So when you're converting iOS actions,

00:48:52   it's actually pretty straightforward because anything

00:48:55   that's got an action on iOS,

00:48:57   pretty much you can do it on the Mac.

00:48:58   You may have to do it via a script,

00:49:01   but it's not an outlandish action that's locked down, right?

00:49:04   Because you're coming from the locked down interface,

00:49:08   the lockdown operating system

00:49:10   to the anything goes operating system.

00:49:12   So if you start with iOS and then move it to macOS,

00:49:15   you're pretty much gonna be able

00:49:16   to figure out a way to do it.

00:49:18   The challenge that I've found is with the second thing,

00:49:22   which is if you wanna do it on the Mac

00:49:26   based on what you're doing

00:49:27   with current automation technologies on the Mac

00:49:29   versus this new one, then can you do it?

00:49:34   Because sometimes you could ultimately

00:49:36   just build a shortcut that is just run the script.

00:49:39   It's like, okay, you could do that.

00:49:41   But what I would like to do ultimately is use a shortcut

00:49:45   and not go out to scripts except when I have to.

00:49:51   'cause I've definitely done the shortcut

00:49:53   that is literally run this script.

00:49:55   It's like, well, that's great.

00:49:57   It's technically, it's a shortcut,

00:49:59   but it's not any different than what I had before.

00:50:02   So what you wanna do is then say,

00:50:04   can I do this with what actions are available

00:50:07   and shortcuts on the Mac?

00:50:08   And sometimes you can and sometimes you can't.

00:50:10   - And you did that with a pretty complicated one, right?

00:50:13   Like I kind of gave you a bit of a challenge

00:50:16   'cause you have a thing that I think you called

00:50:18   the template gun, right?

00:50:19   which was create, every time you saw a podcast,

00:50:22   you would run a script

00:50:23   and it would create a bunch of files for you,

00:50:24   like unzip some files, put them on your desktop,

00:50:27   name them correctly.

00:50:28   And it would be like, so you could edit, say,

00:50:30   an episode of The Incomparable.

00:50:31   And I thought that was really cool.

00:50:33   And I was like, hey,

00:50:35   why don't you try and make a shortcut of it?

00:50:36   And you did.

00:50:37   How was that?

00:50:38   - You did, you sort of challenged me to do it.

00:50:41   And I wrote a post about it and I shared the shortcut.

00:50:43   Basically, I ended up with a,

00:50:45   I think it's a 54 step shortcut, which sounds like a lot,

00:50:50   but actually if you know Federico Vatici, it's not.

00:50:54   - I was gonna, so the 50, yeah, I know Federico's hundreds,

00:50:57   but the 54 steps coming from it being an Apple,

00:51:01   it was an Apple script before, right?

00:51:03   - Yes.

00:51:03   - Does 54 steps seem like a lot compared

00:51:06   to how long the Apple script was?

00:51:08   - It is, I mean, no, honestly.

00:51:14   It's hard to say, 'cause the AppleScript thing,

00:51:16   it's written in like a language

00:51:19   and shortcuts isn't a language.

00:51:23   It's a series of blocks attached to each other.

00:51:27   The AppleScript is 220 lines.

00:51:29   So it is- - Seems like a lot of lines

00:51:32   to me, but what do I know?

00:51:33   - It is.

00:51:34   Well, and one of the challenges,

00:51:35   one of the things that I actually have realized

00:51:37   in doing this, and this is,

00:51:38   I'm sure Federico has been saying this for years now,

00:51:41   but one of the things that is frustrating about shortcuts

00:51:43   is that it doesn't have subroutines.

00:51:46   So if you build a thing that can do this very certain thing

00:51:49   over and over again,

00:51:50   and you need it in different places in your script,

00:51:52   you can't, you would have to make a separate shortcut

00:51:59   and then run that shortcut.

00:52:01   And the problem with that is then when you say,

00:52:03   I wanna share this, you have to say,

00:52:04   actually you need to install these five shortcuts.

00:52:09   And when you send out an update,

00:52:10   you have to update all five shortcuts.

00:52:12   This happened when I borrowed that Tesla for spring break,

00:52:16   and he had written a bunch of really great shortcuts

00:52:19   for the Tesla, but they were,

00:52:21   it was like eight different shortcuts

00:52:24   that all were interconnected, and you needed them all.

00:52:26   And some of that was subroutine kind of stuff.

00:52:29   So I wish I could do that,

00:52:30   but I did take the template gun and tried to re-imagine

00:52:34   how it would work in shortcuts.

00:52:35   And I managed to get it to work entirely in shortcuts,

00:52:38   no scripts used at all,

00:52:42   which required me to rethink a bunch of stuff

00:52:46   because Shortcuts behaves differently.

00:52:50   It doesn't have subroutines.

00:52:51   It interacts, Shortcut interacts with files

00:52:54   in this really weird way because it came from iOS.

00:52:57   This is the best example I can give,

00:52:58   which is in macOS, if you want,

00:53:03   and even if you're not a scripter,

00:53:04   I hope this will explain how weird this is.

00:53:07   In macOS, AppleScript really is a remote control language

00:53:10   for apps.

00:53:12   And so you can do flow, subroutines and if-then's

00:53:18   and all of that.

00:53:19   But really what AppleScript was made for is,

00:53:22   tell this app to do something,

00:53:24   run this command on this app,

00:53:25   or tell me what this app is doing

00:53:27   and then change something about it.

00:53:28   That's what AppleScript is for.

00:53:30   And so if you wanna take, say, a zip archive

00:53:33   from your Dropbox, which is what I wanna do,

00:53:36   and unzip it, the way you do that

00:53:38   in traditional AppleScript form is you tell the finder

00:53:43   to take that file and copy it to the desktop

00:53:47   and then tell, I think, the archive utility to unzip it.

00:53:52   And then you tell the finder to throw away the zip file

00:53:56   because now you've got this folder.

00:53:58   And then you tell the finder to act on all the files

00:54:01   that are in that folder and rename them and all of that.

00:54:05   That's how you do it on AppleScript.

00:54:07   Shortcuts is so weird because it comes

00:54:11   from the fileless operating system of iOS.

00:54:14   Shortcuts, I did this, I started this and I'm like,

00:54:16   okay, get the file and extract it.

00:54:21   There's an extract action.

00:54:22   You can just unzip it right there.

00:54:24   It's great.

00:54:25   So I just ran that and nothing happened.

00:54:28   What's going on?

00:54:29   And I looked at the shortcut and the shortcut said,

00:54:30   "Result all of these files."

00:54:33   And I looked for them on my Mac.

00:54:34   I'm like, where are they?

00:54:36   They're nowhere.

00:54:37   They're nowhere.

00:54:38   They are in the shortcuts phantom zone where...

00:54:42   - Wait, what?

00:54:44   (laughing)

00:54:46   What's that?

00:54:47   - So, this is the thing is until you tell shortcuts

00:54:52   to put those files somewhere, they don't exist.

00:54:55   When you extract an archive, what it does is shortcuts

00:54:57   is okay, here's what's in the archive.

00:54:59   What would you like to do with them?

00:55:01   So in shortcuts to take a zip file and save it

00:55:04   to the desktop, what you need to do is say,

00:55:07   extract to the archive,

00:55:09   create a folder with that name on the desktop,

00:55:13   and then repeat through all the items that you extracted

00:55:16   and save them into that folder.

00:55:19   - Okay.

00:55:20   - Because it's not remote controlling an app.

00:55:24   It is doing it entirely itself.

00:55:27   And that's just really different

00:55:30   from the way that Apple script works.

00:55:32   I think in a great way, right?

00:55:33   Like there's something freeing about saying,

00:55:36   no, no, my automation system has powers of its own

00:55:40   instead of is completely dependent on other apps

00:55:44   to do all of its work.

00:55:45   In fact, one of the big failures of AppleScript, I think,

00:55:47   and one of the reasons why it isn't more broadly popular

00:55:49   and never was more broadly popular

00:55:51   is that while they talked a good game

00:55:53   about everything being natural language

00:55:54   and all of those things,

00:55:56   every single app had its own language, basically.

00:56:00   The way, and they were often impenetrable.

00:56:03   It's like, how do I script the finder?

00:56:04   And I still have to Google search

00:56:07   and use script debuggers, weird sort of debugging modes

00:56:10   in order to figure out how to script applications.

00:56:13   And that's where it failed,

00:56:14   is if every single app behaves differently

00:56:18   when you try to control it,

00:56:20   how are you gonna figure that out?

00:56:22   And so having shortcuts say,

00:56:24   no, most of the stuff I can just do it.

00:56:26   Like you don't have to figure it out.

00:56:27   I will take care of it,

00:56:29   either internally or I will tell the app what to do.

00:56:32   There's something really powerful about that.

00:56:34   - It has like its own inbuilt,

00:56:36   I don't wanna use the word language

00:56:38   'cause I think that complicates the matter,

00:56:39   but you understand what I'm,

00:56:40   like it's, it is doing things in a certain way to the user,

00:56:45   it's always doing them the same way,

00:56:46   and then you can just build from that, right?

00:56:48   - Right, right, because you're just building the blocks.

00:56:49   - Or just this and this,

00:56:51   like every block looks similar, right?

00:56:53   - Exactly, right.

00:56:54   - It's just like here's the block

00:56:55   and you've got the ins and the outs, right?

00:56:56   Like, yeah.

00:56:57   - And if it says get this file,

00:56:59   you don't have to be like,

00:57:00   oh, but where am I getting it?

00:57:02   how does that app look at files?

00:57:04   You can just say, get this file or do this thing.

00:57:07   And shortcuts--

00:57:08   - And what they like to,

00:57:09   they're just like sometimes ask,

00:57:11   you know, like they ask for input, you know,

00:57:13   like it's just all very easy.

00:57:14   - Right, so, but the shortcut Phantom Zone thing

00:57:18   was a real moment of realization for me,

00:57:21   which is like, right.

00:57:23   Just because I said extract the archive

00:57:26   doesn't mean that shortcuts went to the finder

00:57:30   and said, extract this archive, right?

00:57:32   That didn't happen.

00:57:33   It's doing it itself.

00:57:35   And so from there, I was able to build it up

00:57:37   and then I've got a bunch of like repeat statements

00:57:40   and I had to, I built it using what's called a dictionary,

00:57:43   which basically in my Apple script,

00:57:46   I literally have like, if the podcast is named this,

00:57:51   or if the archive is named this, do this.

00:57:53   I have this, it's cheating, right?

00:57:55   I'm literally, every time I add a podcast,

00:57:57   I have to write more lines of code in Apple script

00:58:00   in order to get it to work.

00:58:02   And in a shortcut, there's just a dictionary at the top

00:58:05   that says you put in an item for each podcast that you want

00:58:09   with a couple of preferences for how you want it to behave,

00:58:12   because it does some different things in terms of renaming

00:58:15   based on what podcast network it's on

00:58:18   and based on what kind of show it is.

00:58:22   And what this also means is that this is far more portable.

00:58:26   I, not only did I share this with the world via Six Colors,

00:58:29   but like I can give this to you.

00:58:31   And the only support you're probably gonna need for me

00:58:34   is asking me exactly what you should put in your dictionary.

00:58:38   But I even was able to write a comment that says,

00:58:41   "Here is how to do the dictionary."

00:58:42   So it's much more kind of usable by other people

00:58:46   because of the way it's structured in shortcuts.

00:58:51   - Same, portable, it's also portable for you, right?

00:58:53   'Cause it syncs to iCloud, so it's on your laptop

00:58:56   when you travel, it's perfect.

00:58:58   This is what happened to me last week is I did a podcast

00:59:02   and I needed to post it.

00:59:04   And I was thinking, oh, I didn't bring the template gun app,

00:59:08   the say Apple script saved as an app

00:59:10   that I have in my application folder on my iMac.

00:59:12   And my iMac is shut down because I'm gone.

00:59:14   And I don't have that.

00:59:15   Do I have to dig into a time machine backup?

00:59:17   And what do I wanna do?

00:59:18   And then I thought, well, wait a second.

00:59:20   I rebuilt that as a shortcut.

00:59:22   And I went up to the menu bar

00:59:23   and looked in the little shortcuts menu in the menu bar.

00:59:26   Having never thought about this,

00:59:27   about needing to do this on the laptop.

00:59:30   And it was there and I ran it and it ran

00:59:35   and it worked perfectly.

00:59:37   And that was a moment where I thought,

00:59:39   oh, you know, Apple could have added iCloud syncing

00:59:43   of services and Apple scripts and stuff

00:59:48   into the OS years ago,

00:59:50   but that technology was ignored

00:59:53   and basically treated as dead.

00:59:54   And so they would never prioritize like,

00:59:57   your scripts can be in iCloud,

00:59:59   your services, your finder commands can be in iCloud.

01:00:02   And so they never did.

01:00:04   They could have, it's not like they couldn't have worked,

01:00:06   but they never bothered.

01:00:08   And Shortcut syncs via iCloud.

01:00:11   And I hate to say it, but it just works, right?

01:00:14   Like it was able to run Template Gun

01:00:17   and since I have those files in my Dropbox

01:00:20   and I had Dropbox installed on this laptop,

01:00:22   those files were right where they thought they were.

01:00:25   And it happened.

01:00:26   And what it's doing is it's unzipping

01:00:29   and it's looking at that podcast RSS feed

01:00:31   to find what the latest episode number is

01:00:33   and incrementing it by one

01:00:35   and then renaming a bunch of stuff to be the episode number

01:00:39   so I don't have to look up the episode number.

01:00:40   It knows it and it's already labeled.

01:00:43   It's a lot of fun.

01:00:44   So that was a great, every one of these,

01:00:47   and the reason I've written about this a lot

01:00:48   is not only it's fun new Mac stuff that didn't exist before

01:00:51   and it's user automation, which I love.

01:00:53   But also every one of these little projects I do

01:00:55   teaches me something about how I think about user automation

01:01:01   or about how shortcuts works

01:01:02   and how shortcuts is philosophically different.

01:01:05   It makes me kind of grapple with what's missing

01:01:08   in shortcuts on the Mac and in shortcuts in general

01:01:10   and what is there and where they need to go next.

01:01:12   I'm learning a lot with every single one of these I'm trying

01:01:16   because every one of them seems to have some sort

01:01:19   of challenge that gives me another insight.

01:01:22   Even if it's as simple as,

01:01:23   right, iCloud syncing automations, that's powerful.

01:01:27   - Are you building these on the Mac?

01:01:29   I know like, there's been a lot of talk

01:01:31   about the Mac version not being that great.

01:01:33   Are you dealing with it?

01:01:34   Is it getting better?

01:01:35   What is your experience?

01:01:36   - The app is super weird

01:01:38   and does things that don't make sense.

01:01:40   And you have to do a lot of,

01:01:41   there's a lot of right clicking or, you know,

01:01:43   in the case of, cause I got a track pad, right?

01:01:45   Two finger clicking.

01:01:46   We have to two finger click into various places

01:01:49   in order to get a menu that does the thing you want.

01:01:51   It's not very Mac-like, I would say,

01:01:53   but that's just sort of how it is right now.

01:01:54   I think that that is a combination of them building the app

01:01:57   in SwiftUI and coming from iOS and sort of not thinking

01:02:01   about how the Mac equivalent is going to work.

01:02:03   But it is, you know, it's improving.

01:02:08   I'm actually on the macOS betas right now still,

01:02:15   which I normally wouldn't be, because every beta,

01:02:19   it seems to get a little bit better.

01:02:21   I'm in the 12.1 beta now and they keep fixing things.

01:02:24   It seems like shortcuts for Mac

01:02:28   is still in active development,

01:02:29   which is exactly what I want, right?

01:02:31   The last thing that this thing needs

01:02:32   is to be kind of broken for a year and then be better.

01:02:36   They need to just keep making it better.

01:02:38   I know that there's a dedicated team working on shortcuts.

01:02:41   Every OS release, every beta, it should keep getting better

01:02:45   because it needs to, and it is getting better.

01:02:48   And there's still a bunch of stuff missing.

01:02:51   There's still, like in the short term,

01:02:56   what I really want is a clever developer

01:03:00   to write the equivalent of Toolbox Pro for the Mac.

01:03:03   Toolbox Pro is an app on iOS,

01:03:05   maybe on Mac OS too now, I don't know,

01:03:07   that adds a bunch of functionality.

01:03:09   Where basically like it doesn't do anything

01:03:11   except add a bunch of functionality to shortcuts.

01:03:13   That's its only purpose.

01:03:14   'cause apps can contribute actions to shortcuts.

01:03:17   So Toolbox Pro just adds a bunch of stuff

01:03:21   that shortcuts doesn't do to shortcut.

01:03:23   And the shortcuts should do, but it doesn't.

01:03:25   And I was thinking about this because so many things

01:03:28   that I do and that Federico is doing

01:03:29   and that John Voorhees is doing,

01:03:31   anybody who's playing with this stuff is doing,

01:03:32   Matt Casanelli, like we're all doing this stuff

01:03:35   where it's like, oh, here's how you get a selection

01:03:37   in Safari, you have it do a JavaScript.

01:03:39   Like, okay, short term, what I really want is,

01:03:42   I want a clever developer to sweep a bunch of these common

01:03:45   things up together and make an app that just contributes

01:03:49   them all as actions, if that's possible, right?

01:03:53   The idea is like, 'cause I would rather just say,

01:03:55   get the selection from Safari and have embedded in there

01:04:00   the whatever workaround is necessary to get that to happen

01:04:04   so that I don't have to go look up the Apple script code

01:04:07   and paste it in every time or the JavaScript.

01:04:10   In the long run, and this is a future,

01:04:13   you know, next gen 2022, 2023 kind of thing,

01:04:18   I want, the thought occurred to me that AppleScript

01:04:21   has had plugins for different functionality for a long time.

01:04:24   I would love it, especially on the Mac,

01:04:27   that we had the equivalent for shortcuts,

01:04:29   that like, if I, I can share a shortcut,

01:04:33   but what I really want to do is like,

01:04:35   if I can come up with a clever way

01:04:37   to do something in shortcuts or AppleScript

01:04:39   or some combination thereof,

01:04:41   it's a little like a subroutine.

01:04:43   That is, it takes an input, it does a thing,

01:04:45   and it outputs something.

01:04:47   I'd love to be able to share that with people,

01:04:49   including myself, as an action, right?

01:04:52   This is now an action.

01:04:53   This is Jason's action that does this thing,

01:04:55   and share it with people, and include it,

01:04:58   and say, "This shortcut requires Jason's action to do this,

01:05:02   and you can get it."

01:05:03   I think that's gotta be a direction for them, right?

01:05:06   - Right, okay.

01:05:07   - Because it's really a drag to say,

01:05:10   "Okay, to do this, you need to do this same Apple script

01:05:13   that you use 90 different times in 90 different places.

01:05:16   I'd rather write it once and save it and say,

01:05:19   "It does this."

01:05:20   And it shows up in the list of actions and shortcuts

01:05:22   and you drag it in and it does what it says it does,

01:05:25   just like it does for shortcut actions

01:05:27   and actions from apps.

01:05:28   I would love to be able to do that.

01:05:29   - But I guess the ultimate goal though, right,

01:05:31   is that you would never need a script.

01:05:34   - Yes. I mean, the scripting,

01:05:36   You could make it that the ultimate goal is

01:05:38   that the only time you use scripting

01:05:39   is to build a custom action for yourself,

01:05:43   and then you use it,

01:05:44   and then people don't have to do that,

01:05:46   but if you can write a script that does that,

01:05:48   then you do it.

01:05:49   But yes, the ultimate goal is

01:05:50   you never need to reach for that.

01:05:52   But on the Mac, I'm realizing now

01:05:54   that there's actually probably a place for that

01:05:56   where I could write a complex script and say,

01:06:01   like you can save things as apps out of AppleScript,

01:06:05   Like, save this as an action.

01:06:07   It takes an input, it generates an output,

01:06:09   it does something, save this as an action.

01:06:12   And now I can give that to people and I can use it myself

01:06:14   and I never need to look at the code.

01:06:16   It's just another action inside shortcuts.

01:06:20   It's just another little block to drag into the shortcut.

01:06:23   That would be great.

01:06:24   And I think on iOS, I never really considered it

01:06:26   because there isn't scripting support and stuff on iOS.

01:06:28   But on macOS, you could do it.

01:06:30   And I think that would expand things a lot.

01:06:32   I mean, Apple needs to do a bunch of this stuff itself.

01:06:34   Like the idea that we would write some app

01:06:37   that says, get a selection in Safari,

01:06:39   like, come on, Apple needs to do that, right?

01:06:42   Safari needs that.

01:06:43   And there's a broader context

01:06:46   that Apple needs to do a better job

01:06:47   of evangelizing user automation

01:06:50   and shortcuts inside its team.

01:06:52   This is the modern version

01:06:54   of why aren't Apple's apps scriptable

01:06:56   is why do Apple's apps not have good support?

01:07:01   Federico talked about this.

01:07:03   Like there are new features in Apple's apps

01:07:05   and there's no shortcut support for them.

01:07:07   It's like, if you do a new feature,

01:07:09   why is there no shortcut support?

01:07:11   Focus mode, big brand new feature this fall,

01:07:16   no shortcut support.

01:07:18   Can't detect focus mode, can't change focus mode,

01:07:21   can't trigger on when a focus mode changes.

01:07:24   It's very frustrating.

01:07:27   So there's a lot more work to do here.

01:07:28   - 'Cause you can do some of that on iOS though, right?

01:07:30   You can't do it on iOS. - You can do some of that

01:07:32   on iOS, although not all of it.

01:07:33   And then on the Mac, like good luck,

01:07:36   good luck detecting there's a way to do it,

01:07:38   but you have to like read a P list file somewhere

01:07:41   using a script in order to figure out

01:07:43   what focus mode you're in and you can't change it.

01:07:46   So it's, you know, my overview of this is

01:07:51   for something that is rightly criticized

01:07:54   because it's kind of half baked,

01:07:56   the truth is enough of it is there

01:08:00   for it to make a big difference

01:08:02   and show the potential of the future for this technology.

01:08:04   They just need to keep improving it.

01:08:06   And that is making shortcuts itself better

01:08:09   and more reliable and evangelizing within Apple.

01:08:13   They need to have the leverage with all the other teams

01:08:16   working on products within Apple.

01:08:17   It needs to be clear that it's a company priority

01:08:20   that you have to work with the shortcuts team

01:08:23   and put proper actions in your shortcuts,

01:08:25   whether you're the OS building focus mode

01:08:28   or whether you're notes and reminders.

01:08:30   This is like a thing that you have to do

01:08:32   to get your feature out of the door.

01:08:33   Like this is just one of the parts of the checklist.

01:08:37   - If you add a new feature to Notes,

01:08:40   you need to add support for that.

01:08:41   One of the check boxes needs to be,

01:08:43   also this is implementable via a shortcut action.

01:08:46   And you have to put the shortcut action in there.

01:08:48   You can't just add a whole new feature to Notes

01:08:51   and say, no, you can't, it's not scriptable,

01:08:53   it's not accessible, it's not...

01:08:54   And that goes across iOS and Mac, right?

01:08:57   You just, at Apple, if you're in charge of an app like that,

01:08:59   you can't skate away from shortcuts.

01:09:03   It's part of what you need to ship.

01:09:05   And right now, that's just not the case.

01:09:07   And so that's got to change.

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01:10:51   Let's do some #AskUpgradeQuestions.

01:10:54   [imitates air horn]

01:10:55   The first one is actually going to tie into what we were just talking about.

01:10:58   This comes from Henry, who says, "One of the big advantages of Focus modes

01:11:01   is that they can activate automations on new devices,

01:11:04   but the Mac doesn't have it."

01:11:05   So on iOS and on iPadOS, you can set a Focus mode,

01:11:10   and that Focus mode will set off a shortcut by the personal automations thing.

01:11:14   -Yep.

01:11:15   But Mac doesn't have them.

01:11:16   So he's got two questions about this.

01:11:18   One, do you think that they will add

01:11:20   some kind of personal automations thing to Mac OS?

01:11:23   - Yes.

01:11:25   It doesn't, obviously they just haven't gone to it.

01:11:28   I guess they said it's a multi-year transition, right?

01:11:30   I think it's clear that Mac already has

01:11:33   all this automation technology in terms of things

01:11:36   like when this launches,

01:11:37   when this file is added to this folder.

01:11:39   I think it's only a matter of time

01:11:41   before they implement that.

01:11:42   It's just not, they just weren't ready.

01:11:44   - Yeah, and this is like, all of this stuff lives inside

01:11:46   of the Shortcuts app, and it's like this weird mixture

01:11:49   of Shortcuts and the Home app, like they kind of go together

01:11:53   but Henry also wanted to know if either of us

01:11:56   have any automated, like Shortcuts automations

01:11:59   on our devices, like what we're using it for.

01:12:02   I do have a few, if you'd like to hear that.

01:12:05   So I have a fitness focus mode,

01:12:09   but I only want it to activate

01:12:12   when I'm doing two types of workouts.

01:12:14   So if I'm doing strength or if I'm doing the rowing machine,

01:12:18   which is what I would tend to do one of those two,

01:12:21   then I want it to activate.

01:12:22   I don't want it to activate when the Apple Watch

01:12:24   detects I'm walking or something, right?

01:12:26   Because then it shuts everything off.

01:12:28   So in shortcuts, you can set that up,

01:12:31   which is not a feature that focus modes has,

01:12:33   which is so weird, but there you go.

01:12:36   I have some kind of home kit related ones

01:12:39   where when I arrive at my studio or leave at my studio,

01:12:44   it can adjust the lighting and the heating.

01:12:47   And we also have some like lighting stuff for my home.

01:12:51   So if we're not at home,

01:12:52   the lights go on and lights turn off at different times.

01:12:56   That's the stuff that I have set up.

01:12:57   - Love it.

01:12:58   I don't have any shortcuts based automations right now.

01:13:01   I do have one that I run sometimes.

01:13:05   I actually need to check

01:13:08   'cause I may do a version of it for the winter too,

01:13:10   but it's this, I've talked about it before.

01:13:12   It's the idea of sensing temperature or humidity

01:13:15   and then running some, their home automations.

01:13:19   They're not like in the shortcuts,

01:13:20   but you know, running some things that adjust

01:13:22   stuff that happens in the house.

01:13:23   But in terms of like just pure,

01:13:25   I'm running a shortcut to change my status

01:13:27   or stuff like that, no, not yet.

01:13:30   - Brant wants to know,

01:13:32   "Is now a good time to buy an Apple Watch SE,

01:13:35   or is it better to wait until September

01:13:37   for a hopefully likely Apple Watch SE refresh.

01:13:41   - Ooh.

01:13:43   - I mean, look, I don't mean to sound mean,

01:13:47   but I don't think there's ever a good time

01:13:49   to buy the current Apple Watch SE.

01:13:50   I do not think it is a worthwhile product for the price.

01:13:53   I would, honestly, if this is the watch that you want,

01:13:57   I would recommend waiting.

01:13:59   Maybe they'll have a new one in September,

01:14:01   but I don't know.

01:14:02   - Or maybe they'll get rid of the Series 3

01:14:04   and cut its price. (laughs)

01:14:05   - Yes. - Who knows?

01:14:06   - I do not think that the Apple Watch SE is a good value.

01:14:11   I really don't.

01:14:13   I think it's missing a few features,

01:14:14   especially the always on display.

01:14:16   That at that price, I don't think it's worth it.

01:14:19   - And it's a year old now, right?

01:14:20   So there might've been a good time to buy it

01:14:23   when it was brand new, but now it's--

01:14:24   - Is it over?

01:14:25   It's like over a year old now, right?

01:14:27   - Yeah, it's now a pace behind.

01:14:28   - Like nearly 18 months or something?

01:14:29   Yeah, I would wait.

01:14:30   Like if you don't need it, I would wait.

01:14:32   I mean, alternately, I would try and maybe find

01:14:34   refurbished series four or series five as I think would be better honestly than a new SE.

01:14:41   Because really if I'm remembering right the Apple Watch SE is like a series four-ish with no always

01:14:51   on. And I'm not, I don't think that's worth the price, I just don't. I think it's an overpriced

01:14:57   product for what you get from it.

01:14:59   It wasn't very helpful at Airbrants, but sorry.

01:15:04   Mark wants to know, we don't always promise answers

01:15:06   in Ask Upgrade.

01:15:07   - Well, I mean, you got a clear answer,

01:15:09   which is you think don't buy it.

01:15:11   - Yeah, yeah, fair enough.

01:15:12   Wait, wait or pursue a refurbished other model.

01:15:17   Mark asks, when setting up a new iPad,

01:15:20   do you prefer to restore from a current backup

01:15:22   of your iPhone so that your iPad experience

01:15:25   mirrors your iPhone?

01:15:26   do you start fresh or like in create a completely separate

01:15:29   iPad experience or I guess if you're coming from another

01:15:32   iPad, set it up to mirror another iPad.

01:15:34   What do you do for iPads?

01:15:36   - My iPad line and my iPhone line are completely different

01:15:40   and I set up new iPhones based on my iPhone

01:15:42   and I set up new iPads based on my iPad.

01:15:45   And that for me includes the iPad mini,

01:15:47   which I set up as an iPad.

01:15:50   I actually regretted setting it up blank

01:15:52   and I went back and erased it and set it up as my iPad.

01:15:55   - The dock, the dock is ridiculous.

01:15:57   - But it is, but it's like, it is an iPad

01:16:00   and the stuff I do on it is still iPad stuff.

01:16:02   And so why would I not want my iPad stuff on it?

01:16:05   So that's putting iPhone stuff on an iPad,

01:16:09   I guess if it's your first iPad

01:16:11   and you wanna have it be just like your iPhone,

01:16:14   but for me, the iPad and the iPhone

01:16:17   are just completely diverged and that's how I like it.

01:16:20   - Yeah, I recommend doing like what you did

01:16:22   is having like, they're distinct.

01:16:25   - Yes. - Right?

01:16:26   So I wouldn't do that.

01:16:27   I wouldn't set up my first iPad mirroring my iPhone.

01:16:30   I would just set it up new.

01:16:31   But for me, I have backups for each line.

01:16:36   So the Mini is new.

01:16:38   And if I get a new Mini, it will come from the Mini.

01:16:40   If I get a new iPad Pro, it will come from the old iPad Pro.

01:16:43   'Cause I use them so differently.

01:16:44   - Right, that's true. - That it doesn't make sense

01:16:46   to me to have all of the apps that I would use on my iPad.

01:16:49   For me, it's like, if it was even possible,

01:16:52   would I set up my iPad mini as a backup from a MacBook?

01:16:55   No, because they're completely different to me

01:16:57   and that's kind of how I see the difference

01:16:59   between my iPad mini and my iPad Pro.

01:17:01   Like there are apps on my iPad Pro

01:17:03   that I do not have on my mini and never will

01:17:05   'cause if I don't have a keyboard and mouse,

01:17:08   for me there's no point using them on an iPad,

01:17:10   I would just use it on a Mac, right?

01:17:12   Like because the iPad mini you just,

01:17:15   like I'm not gonna have big writing apps on the iPad mini,

01:17:17   like it's just not a thing that I'm gonna do

01:17:19   'cause it doesn't really feel great to do that,

01:17:22   to be honest, 'cause there's no keyboard.

01:17:24   And Matthew asks, do you use live photos still?

01:17:30   - Some. - Okay.

01:17:31   - I remember when I remember to turn it on,

01:17:33   sometimes then I turn it off and I forget,

01:17:36   and then I just don't use it for a while,

01:17:37   and then I turn it on for some reason.

01:17:39   The place that I have found the best thing,

01:17:44   and I know that I'm stealing your thunder here

01:17:47   'cause you put this in the notes document,

01:17:48   but I swear I have the exact same feeling,

01:17:50   which is the new memories feature in iOS 15,

01:17:54   it uses the memory movies as part of the memories

01:17:58   that it builds.

01:17:59   And it's so great at unearthing.

01:18:01   You have this photo that you like,

01:18:03   and you may never watch the memory movie or the live photo,

01:18:07   but all of a sudden there it is.

01:18:09   And that photo that is so familiar,

01:18:11   suddenly is a short video.

01:18:14   When that works, it's magic. - You hear a laugh

01:18:15   in the background. - Yeah.

01:18:16   - Like this kind of thing that I like.

01:18:17   like watching the video and it's like it's an image

01:18:20   that you know well, but when you hear it,

01:18:21   you hear people laughing and it puts a sense of that time.

01:18:24   I think Live Photos is one of the best things

01:18:26   Apple has ever added to iOS.

01:18:28   Like I think it is absolutely a fantastic feature

01:18:33   that unearths joy in moments.

01:18:38   Like I love swiping through my photo library

01:18:42   and seeing things move because it immediately

01:18:45   transports me back to, like I can actually give you an example of something that

01:18:49   happened about 15 minutes ago. So I'm sitting here looking outside of a window

01:18:54   right and I just saw Adina walk past the window and she looked at me and she

01:19:00   waved and I got my phone out and took a picture of her because it was funny

01:19:03   right yeah and now in that live photo because I looked at it I have her

01:19:08   actively waving and that makes that image so much better so when I'm

01:19:12   scrolling through in the future of this holiday, I will see this moment and it's

01:19:18   not just her of her hand up, she's waving at me and like that is just amazing I

01:19:23   love it. I actually found a couple of days ago I had accidentally turned off

01:19:28   live photos for like three days and I was so upset about it because now I have

01:19:32   these images that don't have a live component to them. I think I was messing

01:19:35   around with photo styles, those buttons are too close to each other but I

01:19:39   I love the feature.

01:19:40   I have so many little moments that are so much better

01:19:45   because there's a live photo attached to them.

01:19:48   And also like using live photos

01:19:50   can sometimes help you improve an image

01:19:52   because you might get an image where like two people,

01:19:54   one person's blinking.

01:19:55   With live photos, you can go in and choose a new key frame.

01:19:58   You might get a better image out of it.

01:20:00   - Yeah, for me, the definitive one is we took that photo

01:20:04   in Indianapolis, that was the selfie with the selfie flash.

01:20:08   And the selfie flash, I think we hadn't used before,

01:20:11   and it was super bright.

01:20:13   And so the photo, there's a photo of us

01:20:16   that's just a selfie, which is fine,

01:20:18   but the live photo is us smiling,

01:20:21   having this bright light flash in our eyes,

01:20:23   and then you look like you are gonna die

01:20:26   because the light was so bright.

01:20:27   - Yeah, 'cause I was not prepared

01:20:29   for how bright the light was gonna be.

01:20:31   - It's so great, and that wouldn't exist

01:20:34   if it were not for the live photo.

01:20:37   Exactly. So I really love this feature. I think it's really great. I have some problems

01:20:44   with the new memories feature. I think it's a regression in some way. But the memory movies

01:20:50   are really great and they are enhanced by the live photos. I just wish it was easier

01:20:55   to get to the actual images that a memory movie is presenting. Sometimes I just want

01:21:01   to see, show me the photos, I don't necessarily want a video. And also the music is so bad

01:21:06   for me. Like, I know different people have had different, like, experiences of this.

01:21:12   The music feels like I don't know who it's picking it from. Just pick stuff from my library.

01:21:16   - Yeah, sometimes I think it works, most times I think it doesn't, but the truth is, I generally

01:21:22   keep, this is like an answer to a stealthy question that hasn't been asked, but I generally

01:21:26   keep my volume on my iPad at nothing. So I don't hear that music at all, and I only increase

01:21:33   the volume when there's something that I actually want to hear and then I put it

01:21:35   back down. Yeah me too. So if you would like to send in a #AskUpgrade

01:21:41   question for us to answer on the show just send out a tweet with the #AskUpgrade

01:21:45   or you can use ?askupgrade in the Relay FM members

01:21:49   Discord which you have access to if you're an Upgrade+ subscriber. You can go

01:21:52   to getupgradeplus.com to sign up but don't forget if you're a new subscriber you can

01:21:55   get a 22% discount by going to giverelay.com giverelay.com yeah or if

01:22:02   Basically the reason we did this by the way, I don't think I mentioned it,

01:22:05   is because the holidays are coming up. If you wanted a membership and haven't been

01:22:09   able to get one this can be a gift that you can put on your list for somebody

01:22:12   that you love to buy it for you. So there you go, go to GiveRelay.com.

01:22:17   I would like to thank our sponsors for this episode that is Squarespace,

01:22:20   Membrful and Setapp for their support of the show. If you want to find

01:22:26   Jason online you can go to SixColors.com he is @jsnell, J S N E double L. You can

01:22:32   find me I'm @imike and we'll be back next time well I won't actually I'm

01:22:39   gonna be off next week Jason's gonna be getting a guest surprise guest next week

01:22:44   next week but there will be a new number of us next week I just won't be here

01:22:50   until then say goodbye Jason Snell goodbye Myke Hurley

01:22:55   [ Music ]

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