375: My Watch Is My Cake


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 375. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14   DoorDash, Gabi, and Hunter Douglas. My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined by

00:00:20   Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow. Hi, Myke Hurley. It's good to be here. So I was about to do

00:00:23   something really weird and introduce you as Brad Dowdy. Don't know why? Uh, pens.

00:00:28   But I was about to do that. It was very strange. But here we are. #snowtalkquestion

00:00:33   comes from Luke. Luke says, "Happy birthday, Jason. What cake did you get?" I will also say,

00:00:39   "Happy birthday, Jason." We should have just bought that last week. Oh, thank you. It was last

00:00:41   week. Uh, I didn't get cake. Sorry, Luke. I don't love cake. Cake's fine. I feel like when it says

00:00:51   "cake" for birthday, cake is, like, not really cake in my mind. You're saying the cake is a lie?

00:00:59   Yes, the cake is a lie. And the truth is, like, what is the typical dessert or thing that you

00:01:06   shared with people for your birthday? Okay, so my lovely wife got me a fancy bottle of beer,

00:01:16   like one of those Belgian bottles with the cork. Ooh. The big, heavy glass Belgian, you know, big

00:01:23   bottle, and hid it in our refrigerator. And I don't know. She said, "I hid it." I said, "Where?"

00:01:30   She said, "I'm not telling you." Which is great. Like, I have literally no idea how she hid it in

00:01:34   the refrigerator. There's a secret door in your fridge. Because it was chilled. And yeah, I don't

00:01:37   know. So I got that. That was a nice birthday beer. And she also got some ice cream from a

00:01:43   local ice cream place. So your cake was beer and ice cream? That's, you know, yes. In fact,

00:01:51   in general, my cake is beer and ice cream. So that's perfect. If you'd like to send in a

00:01:56   question for us to start off the show with, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snotalk or use

00:02:00   question mark #snotalk in the Relay FM members Discord. I have some follow up. I want to talk

00:02:05   about iPad Mini on a train, which made me think of snakes on a plane. So somebody's got to get

00:02:11   all these iPad Minis off this train. I was thinking like strangers on the train, like a spy thing,

00:02:16   like two iPad Minis meet and do they exchange an airdrop? When you pull into a siding briefly,

00:02:23   is there a surreptitious airdrop with a contact on the outside? And then you move on and no one

00:02:28   knows that it happened? I was on a train for a few hours over the weekend. Okay. I had my iPad

00:02:33   Mini with me and I wanted to just get some work done on it. And I just wanted to observe like a

00:02:38   some a different kind of use case for me with this device that I've been using, you know,

00:02:42   like a kind of traveling thing. Because I can imagine this gave me the idea of like a big chunk

00:02:48   of time in a seat, little table, you know, so like, insert your method of travel here could

00:02:53   also be equally for a plane, maybe even a boat. So obviously, many of the advantages of the iPad

00:02:59   Mini carry over really compact, right? So very nice and easy for the reading portions of what

00:03:06   I was doing and you know, all of that kind of stuff. And it's very easy to get work done on it,

00:03:11   because it is an iPad that runs iPadOS 15. It has all of my apps, right, like all the stuff,

00:03:17   you know, but the one thing that I noticed for like what needing to work on it for like a three

00:03:22   hour stretch and actually doing work is unlike other iPads, you have to hold this one the whole

00:03:29   time, right? So the iPad Pro, you or even iPad Air, you know, or the regular iPad, you can have

00:03:36   some kind of keyboard that it goes in. And so you can put it down and type on it, but you're not

00:03:41   holding it. It's it's on the table. That doesn't work with this iPad, you have to hold it. Now,

00:03:46   if you're watching something or reading something, you can use the smart folio thing and prop it up.

00:03:51   But if you need to type or interact, you're holding it for the whole time. Now, obviously,

00:03:56   it's really thin and really light. So that makes it easy. But it is a it's it's just a different

00:04:02   trade off than what I had thought of because I have all the work I've been doing on it currently,

00:04:06   it's just like little bits and bobs here and there. I'm at home. It's like a different kind

00:04:10   of thing. But this is like, no, I'm sitting down with this for a couple of hours. And I'm going to

00:04:14   do email, I'm going to do some calendar stuff, I'm going to do some prep for the show, you know,

00:04:18   like just a full on work block. And I just realized like halfway through is like, I can't put this down

00:04:24   to do the work on. Yeah, yeah, it's true. I mean, ergonomics are a huge issue when it comes to

00:04:31   devices like this. And it's just a different kind of ergonomic experience. And you get some good

00:04:36   stuff out of it, right? But but I've had that same thing where I realized, why does this feel weird?

00:04:40   And I realized it's because I'm holding it and thumb typing. And I'm like, oh, this is like,

00:04:45   I tried putting it down and type it on the keyboard, but this flat, it just didn't work

00:04:50   in the way that I wanted. Like it didn't it didn't feel so good. So just like I realized like, oh,

00:04:54   right, because the iPads I've been used to using for like the last five years, they kind of come

00:04:59   with a stand as well as the keyboard. So like, when you're typing, you're not holding it, the

00:05:04   tables holding it for you. So it was just something I wanted to share, because it's an experience I

00:05:09   haven't had in a very long time and definitely haven't had with this product. Yeah, that's good.

00:05:13   It is a different kind of product, right? And it's it has a lot of I think that size has a lot of

00:05:18   advantages, but it's not if it if it did everything that every iPad did, it would be the greatest iPad

00:05:25   ever. But it's not it's there are trade offs for that stuff. Let's talk about some macro

00:05:28   photography stuff. Got two two little things about macro photography. One of them is the iOS 15.1,

00:05:35   the beta version has added an option for the to turn off the automatic macro switching thing. So

00:05:43   if you have an iPhone 13 Pro, and you go very close to something, it switches over to the ultra wide,

00:05:48   so you can have so you can take macro photography, it's now going to be possible in 15.1 to turn off

00:05:56   this behavior. So it won't do the switching anymore. So you can move the camera close to

00:06:00   something. And it's not going to switch over to the ultra wide. And then the way that you would

00:06:06   take a macro photo is to change to the ultra wide camera, and then just use tap to focus on

00:06:12   the object. I'm not sure this is the way I would have done this. But I think I will appreciate this

00:06:22   it not doing the automatic switching. So I will I will change it. For me, I would have actually just

00:06:30   had a button which quite clearly was zero macro mode now, but maybe they don't want to add even

00:06:38   more buttons. I don't know. I like the idea of you not knowing what mode you're in. The problem was

00:06:47   that Apple couldn't pull off the magic trick, right? Like the shift in cameras is too visible.

00:06:52   Because you're no longer you every time it shifts, you have to physically move your phone to get the

00:06:57   thing back in to what you want it to be again. Yeah, it's like a parallax change because you're

00:07:01   close and you're changing lenses. And so it is, you know, it's coming through a different portal

00:07:06   that's slightly over and it totally changes the location. Plus, I know people have reported like

00:07:11   the color balance is not exactly the same and it ends up being like a very disconcerting thing.

00:07:16   Like you should if they could pull it off as a magic trick, it would be great. But they tried

00:07:21   and it didn't work. So I will be happy for that. And so I can have a bit more manual control over

00:07:28   it. But I also wanted to mention Halide, the camera application. In version 2.5, they've added

00:07:36   a macro mode that can be used on any device from the iPhone 8 or newer. And they're doing a couple

00:07:44   of different things going on here. One is basically get super close to something, focus on it,

00:07:50   and they're going to use machine learning to enhance the image. So even on phones without an

00:07:54   ultra wide or without an ultra wide with autofocus, like the new ones that can do the macro photography,

00:08:00   they're kind of enabling a macro mode, which I think is really awesome. So I haven't been able

00:08:07   to test it on a device that doesn't have the ultra wide. Okay. What have you thought so far?

00:08:12   You know, it's a nice trick, but I wasn't super impressed with it. It's not the same quality as

00:08:18   having the camera. And I appreciate the idea that they're using ML up resolution to make it seem

00:08:27   better and enhanced. And that's nice. I feel like this is how Apple would do it if they wanted to

00:08:33   bring a fake macro mode to old phones, which they didn't do that. But if they did, this is what it

00:08:39   would look like. I think though my reaction was a little bit like, I know why they didn't do it,

00:08:43   because you can't get that close because the camera won't let you get that close. You can

00:08:49   control the focus, which is good, and you can get a focus eventually that you want, and then it'll do

00:08:54   its ML up res thing that it does and you'll get something out of it. But this feels more like

00:09:01   an encouragement by Halide to get people, even with older phones, to start playing around with

00:09:06   macro photography. But it didn't, you know, it didn't blow me away. I was sort of like, well,

00:09:12   this is kind of a fun trick that gets us talking about Halide, but it's not, I mean, it's not the

00:09:19   same as what Apple is implementing with the heart, with the phone. I'm sure Halide would tell you,

00:09:23   of course it isn't, but I worry this is maybe overhyping it a little bit much because I was,

00:09:29   you know, I was not super impressed with it. It is exactly what I thought it would be, which is,

00:09:34   you still have to deal with all of the focal length limitations of the iPhone, but you have

00:09:39   a little more control over them because it's Halide, and then they do this, you know,

00:09:42   machine learning up res thing that they do. It was fine. I think the real, like, I appreciate that

00:09:49   because I didn't have the opportunity to test that. For me, though, the real winner in this update is

00:09:55   focus control of the ultra wide for the macro mode on the Pro phones. So phones that can do,

00:10:03   the Mac phones that can't do, to have the macro mode support, you can adjust the focus yourself,

00:10:09   which I really appreciate. So that's a fun thing for me with trying out this stuff.

00:10:15   Because macro focus is very specific. And so if you want to have a slightly different focus,

00:10:21   yeah, no, Halide is a fantastic app. You know, don't go get it just because you don't have a

00:10:27   new phone and you want macro mode like the new phone because it doesn't really do that,

00:10:31   but it does a lot of other great stuff. I love that app.

00:10:34   Yeah. So it allows you to do multiple tweaking. And so I think I could be, I would see myself using

00:10:39   it for that, but as you say, it's not magic, right? There's only so much it can do, but if

00:10:43   you do have one of the phones with the macro mode, I recommend trying this out because I've actually

00:10:48   been able to get some pretty good shots with Halide that I can't get with Apple's camera app

00:10:53   because I have more manual control over what's in focus and what isn't. So super cool.

00:10:58   This is upstream headlines where we talk about some of the things going on in the streaming media

00:11:04   world. A couple of things, Oh, foundation. So Apple's new show, which I've yet to watch yet,

00:11:09   but I'm going to, I'm letting it build up. I've watched the first three and I think

00:11:13   they're four out now. I've watched the first three. I like it. It hits, it hits every, uh,

00:11:18   sweet spot for me in terms of sci-fi shows that I like it. It's a slow build. It's got broad

00:11:25   implications. It's telling it sort of out of time sequence. It's an epic. It's got some interesting

00:11:32   performances. It looks like a million bucks correction. It looks like 10 million bucks

00:11:36   per episode. It's very expensive. I think the show runner said two episodes. The budget for

00:11:42   two episodes is more than any movie he's ever worked on. Yeah. It's, it's a very expensive

00:11:46   show, but it looks great. And I've, I've really enjoyed it so far. Apple's announced a renewing

00:11:51   it for a second season. So I brought it up. Yeah. And I think it's funny because a bunch of industry,

00:11:56   like reporter type people and analyst type people that I follow on Twitter. Um, I think specifically

00:12:01   kid masters at the Hollywood reporter, but, uh, I saw several people who are like, yeah,

00:12:06   this is like PR, uh, that, that the, everybody knew foundation had a multi-sear multi-season

00:12:12   commitment. This would have been wild to do once. This feels like it's the season two announcement.

00:12:19   Yes. But is it really a renewal? And I mean, unless you've seen the contract, I guess you don't know

00:12:24   for sure. It's possible that they didn't straight up buy a second season, but I would bet you that

00:12:31   they had a penalty attached to not buying a second season that made it extremely unlikely that they

00:12:36   wouldn't buy a second season. And I think Apple, when they made a lot of these deals, like Apple

00:12:40   is willing to take a chance on these shows and let them play out. Apple's canceled, I think two shows

00:12:44   so far. Um, and so, you know, of course you don't put money like this into this thing. And unless

00:12:52   you look at the stats and see that it's a complete disaster and you need to pay to get out of the

00:12:57   deal. Um, you know, it does also, it allows Apple to put out a press release and call it a hit,

00:13:01   even though they didn't actually release any data of any kind. And I also saw some commentary in the,

00:13:06   uh, in the TV and entertainment industry analysts sphere about how people really need to not quote

00:13:13   Apple press releases about this stuff or any, or any streamers press releases about this stuff,

00:13:19   where they claim it's a hit, it's a global phenomenon, all these things without any data

00:13:24   at all, because you're just carrying their water at that point. Like we don't know anything about

00:13:29   whether foundation is doing better or worse than Apple expected. All we know is that they,

00:13:35   they renewed it, which everybody apparently already knew they were going to do.

00:13:39   And they said, right? Like is it enough to say that they want to say it's successful,

00:13:44   but that doesn't mean anything. Yeah. They may be going through the motions here. Um,

00:13:48   because it's good for PR to do this, even though everything, you know, it literally didn't matter

00:13:53   what the data said. This is the same press release. They would put out timed at the time that they did

00:13:57   to point out that foundation is coming back, but I like the show so far. So I'm glad it's coming

00:14:02   back and Apple's going to spend more money. Brett Goldstein from Ted Lasso was on, uh, Seth Meyers's

00:14:10   show on NBC last week. And the moment that I thought was very funny from a meta perspective,

00:14:15   an upstream perspective was he talked about writing the scene in season two of Ted Lasso,

00:14:21   where, um, I'm not, I'm not spoiling anything here. Uh, Roy Kent has a conversation with

00:14:26   Jamie Tartt and he said, I wrote that scene knowing it was going to cost Apple a lot of money

00:14:33   because every time I'm in a scene with him, I can't stop laughing. And so it's going to take

00:14:38   days to shoot that because we, I, you know, every, and that's why we didn't put Jamie and

00:14:44   Roy in too many scenes together because it would cost too much money. Cause we, we just,

00:14:50   apparently they just make each other laugh and it ruins the shots and stuff like that. But I,

00:14:54   I think I've seen a recurring theme for a lot of people who work on Apple TV plus shows where they

00:14:59   make mention of the fact that Apple is spending a lot of money on them. I think they, I do get the

00:15:04   feeling that in, in, in the entertainment world that people like to make fun of it,

00:15:09   like because they know Apple has so much money and it maybe kind of feels like maybe they get

00:15:13   more money than maybe they would otherwise. So maybe people, people like to talk about it. I

00:15:17   don't know, but there is, I agree there is, there is this thing about money. Like, is it that Apple

00:15:23   were very stingy? I don't know. But yeah, but I do see that a lot. Just on foundation, the showrunner

00:15:31   David S Goyer apparently said that they have enough for eight seasons. Like that was the original

00:15:35   pitch to Apple. So we'll see. Yeah. For that, that's the whole isaac has them on outline. I'm

00:15:40   sure, you know, dream big dream big. There is going to be a one division spinoff coming to

00:15:45   Disney plus focused on Agatha Harkness, which is absolutely fantastic. I was so happy to see this

00:15:51   news because the entire internet, like absolutely fell in love with Catherine Hern's portrayal of

00:15:56   that character. And, uh, I'm really pleased to see that, that, that Disney are rewarding that

00:16:02   success with a show entirely about that character. So that's super cool. Yeah. A little while ago,

00:16:09   we spoke about Apple trying to buy up some property, uh, in Culver city to build their

00:16:14   own studios. They, and Apple has now acquired more than 550,000 square feet for a campus.

00:16:21   Apple is saying it is going to be a mixed use facility, but they're not saying anything more

00:16:26   at this time. It seemed pretty clear that they're going to build some sound stages there because

00:16:30   otherwise that is just a very large campus. But like, what, I don't know what, but so,

00:16:35   yeah, I mean that that's, we've read about their goals of getting, you know, buying property and

00:16:42   potentially even buying studio lots in order to have studio space because studio space is at a

00:16:47   premium. And so now it looks like they're gonna, they've succeeded in getting enough land to put

00:16:52   their own in Apple studios or whatever. Maybe they'll, I don't know. I don't know what else

00:16:58   will be there. They're going to move the Apple fitness people there. Probably not. Probably not.

00:17:01   And I also just want to recommend episode one of downstream is out now with Jason and Julia. And I

00:17:07   listened to it last night. I finished it off and I really loved it. Uh, if you enjoy this segment,

00:17:12   dear listener, you will really like downstream. So please go and check it out.

00:17:16   Yeah, that's been a lot of fun. It's every two weeks. So it's not too much added to your podcast

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00:19:58   show and relay FM. So Apple watch pre-orders have, uh, happened mostly. Well, it was been available

00:20:05   since Friday. Yeah. Did you pre-order? I know that you said you, you might just wait and try and get

00:20:11   it at the store. Did you actually make a pre-order? I did make a pre-order. My thought there is that

00:20:16   pre-orders can be canceled for quite a while. And mine isn't shipping until November, early November,

00:20:24   I think. So I've got time to find it. If it is in a nearby store, uh, you know, I, if I have second

00:20:30   thoughts, whatever, I've got that. But I did decide ultimately on at some point on Friday that I would

00:20:34   at least put something in there, uh, to have an order. Um, so I ordered titanium. I'm going,

00:20:42   I'm treating myself, treat yourself, treat yourself. This is my cake. My watch is my cake.

00:20:48   My watch is my cake this year. So, uh, I decided to treat myself titanium. I've never had a watch

00:20:54   that wasn't just the cheapest Apple watch aluminum Apple watch. Have you worn, you've worn the other

00:20:59   ones though, right? So you know, the weight and it's like, you know, the I've seen them while the

00:21:02   titanium is light because it's titanium, the stainless Lauren had a stainless and I think

00:21:08   series one and it was, it was heavy. It was nice, but it was heavy and I don't want that.

00:21:14   Titanium is lighter and still is this kind of like nicer space black,

00:21:19   titanium space, black titanium. Yeah, that's right. How much black or could it be? None more

00:21:23   black space black. No, it definitely could be more black. Yeah, it could be that they're mostly,

00:21:28   I mean, I think the black, uh, I think the black stainless steel is like actual black. Well,

00:21:33   we'll get to that in a minute. That doesn't exist anymore. Isn't I? No, I thought they had the fancy

00:21:37   coating black stainless steel. Do they not? Not anymore. The colors are, we're going to talk about

00:21:42   color. Stay tuned to the colors are segment, which is coming up. Uh, and then maybe our new podcast

00:21:46   colors are, uh, so 45 millimeter. Yeah. The big one. Um, because I've always had the big one

00:21:51   because I unlike many, surprisingly many podcast hosts in this sphere, I do not have spindly

00:21:58   chicken arms. I can wear the larger watch. Oh my God. Jason's throwing it down. Spindly chicken

00:22:05   arms is what he says. Hi Casey. Okay. That was just, just for Casey. I just, I, every time I

00:22:11   listen, I am amazed that I hear, especially it's Casey and market writer, both like,

00:22:16   Oh, the, the big watch, it's just too big for my, for my wrist. And I don't understand it.

00:22:20   Casey's a big man. We had like the same height, like, you know, I don't get it. I, and it's fine.

00:22:27   Like again, biology, everybody, nobody gets to pick. You get the body that you get. So people

00:22:32   have preferences, you know, it's all fine. I just, I am, I'm surprised that so many people who were

00:22:39   talking about Apple watches in my ears are talking about the little watch instead of the bigger

00:22:44   watch. So, so my point is more, I'm sorry to disappoint you, dear listener. I can't tell you

00:22:49   that story. I get the big watch every year. That's what I do. So of course I'll get the big watch.

00:22:55   Let's talk bands for a second. Having not bought a premium style, Apple watch before I didn't know

00:23:03   this, but they pack a bunch of things in like that you just get with the premium watch. So

00:23:11   one example is I discovered every titanium model seems to come with a gray sport band,

00:23:18   whether you want it or not, and you can't not get it. And you still have to pick another band.

00:23:23   So aha, here's the thing for you. That's how it seems, but it's not entirely true. This,

00:23:30   there has been there, the process of buying an Apple watch is becoming maddeningly complicated.

00:23:38   So I didn't want the band that the watch that I ordered, which I get to in a minute,

00:23:45   came with by default. So if you go to Apple watch studio and make a pairing, I did, I did. Oh,

00:23:54   but I then got what I wanted. It didn't come with the one that they suggested. So I went to the

00:23:59   Apple watch studio and I picked it. I picked a band that I wanted and then I continued to order.

00:24:04   Oh, Jason, I know why. I know why. Cause it's an addition. So with the addition ones,

00:24:07   they have the matching band with the pin. So I had this with mine. See it's fancy.

00:24:12   So you get the titanium pin, little pin that I'm never going to wear on my addition. Cause I have

00:24:18   the white one, right? The white series five or whatever. My white sport band has a ceramic pin.

00:24:23   That's why I like the, so what I want to do is one of two things. Here's the frustration though is

00:24:30   I also can't order that watch without a band, even though there's a band in it, I have to order a

00:24:37   second band, which again, it's like, okay, but I don't need that band. And if you're going to make

00:24:44   me order one band, so I'm getting two bands when I would be fine with no bands, but I'm getting two

00:24:50   bands. The, I should say titanium is a cellular only, which is fine because I want the cellular

00:24:57   one, but I kind of appreciate that if you're going to buy the more expensive watch, Apple is not

00:25:02   going to nickel and dime you by saying, Oh no, no, the expensive price starts here. But if you want

00:25:07   the, the, the, the cellular one, you got to pay more. It seems like, no, you just get that. That's

00:25:14   just, it's a fancy watch. You get all the fancy parts. And for the record, I got a marigold solo

00:25:21   loop. So it's like a yellow solo loop. I have one solo loop and, uh, I wanted another one. So there,

00:25:27   that's what I got. Spindly, I'm never, I'm not going to go over spindly chicken arms.

00:25:32   I, you know, it's, I've started a feud now and I was just joking. I just think it's funny that so

00:25:37   many podcasts I was talking about getting the, uh, watch. Fudes are good for ratings. It's fine

00:25:43   for ratings. That's good. Going to pump the ratings. It sweeps season. Jason. Okay. I got

00:25:48   the gold stainless steel 45 millimeter. I was able to go into Apple watch studio as I mentioned,

00:25:54   and I changed the band out because it, it said the, I think was by default was pretty much just

00:26:00   the leather, um, leather. What did they call it? The, the one with the leather link, I think they

00:26:05   call it where it's the magnetic one magnetic. Yeah. That's what I was looking for. It's a nice

00:26:10   one. I have one of those. So, uh, this is it. So I saw it and I was like, oh, that actually looks

00:26:15   pretty cool. Like I didn't like the color that they had was the default, but I liked the look

00:26:19   of that. But what I wanted to do is make sure I could get what I wanted. So I went into the gold

00:26:23   stainless and I added the gold Milanese. So that's what my main order. I then added two more bands.

00:26:29   I went with an abyss blue sport band because I think blue and gold will look nice together. I'm

00:26:34   not on the loop chain yet. Um, I think I want to try one of those on when I go to the Apple store.

00:26:41   Uh, because I have not tried it on and I don't want to do the at home sizing thing. I want to

00:26:45   just try the bands on and find the one that fits for me. Cause I like the, um, the braided one. I

00:26:50   think the braided one looks really nice. Yeah. It, it looks great. I, and I will just say that the

00:26:56   kind of John Gruber inspired look at how your sport band fits and map it to a size. It does work.

00:27:03   Two loops that way. And it totally works, but I'm going to the absolute to pick it up.

00:27:09   I'm not going on launch day. I'm going a couple of days after. So I'm expecting I might be able

00:27:14   to do it. You should have that full retail experience then, especially since you're

00:27:18   getting a stainless watch should be like, what size is it? So it's seven. That's really good.

00:27:24   I'll get that for you. Thank you. It's just like a Butler that I have at the Apple store.

00:27:30   Yeah. It's your, it's your watch valet. It's my Alfred. It's my watch Alfred. No,

00:27:34   it's it works for the Apple store, but it's the watch, the watch Butler,

00:27:37   the watch band Butler really is who that is. And I also got a midnight, uh, leather link,

00:27:43   which I thought looked really nice, like the dark bluey black and the gold. Cause for me,

00:27:48   it was like, I think I'm on the every two to three years now for the Apple watch. I don't,

00:27:54   I've, I finally found the product for me where like, I don't feel the need to upgrade it

00:27:59   frequently. Um, and also, you know, like some products I might upgrade and might not,

00:28:04   depending on if I think it's worth it for the coverage of the shows and stuff, uh,

00:28:08   the Apple watch I'm not sure about, but for me, considering I am now like all in somewhat

00:28:14   begrudgingly somewhat not wiring my watch all the time. I want to have more options to dress

00:28:19   it up and dress it down than I do currently. And I think I've got a run the gamut with these three,

00:28:24   because as well, the bands that I already have, they're not going to work for me with a gold

00:28:29   stainless steel watch. Like I don't think that it will work in the way that I have been where

00:28:34   I previously had just the sport ones that they were bright and colorful, you know,

00:28:38   I had the silver watch and then with the white one, it just works because white is plain,

00:28:42   but gold stainless steel is not going to be so. Anyway, uh, my watch was available. Uh,

00:28:49   I'm picking it up on next weekend. I could have picked it up on Friday, but I'm not going to be

00:28:54   around. So I went through this whole process and I was like milling around in the Apple store app,

00:28:59   just choosing what I wanted because, you know, I was like, Oh, let me go look at this band.

00:29:02   Let me go look at that band. I didn't think it was going to be any issue. And then when I was done,

00:29:07   just like looking through texts for friends and stuff, I don't know anyone that's getting one

00:29:12   on launch day. Huh? Because it seems like a lot of people went for titanium or the other stainless

00:29:18   steels. And it seems like everybody that I know is getting their watches in November.

00:29:22   So I think availability has seemed sporadic at best, uh, for the, for the app watch.

00:29:30   There's something going on with the app watch this year. I'm not sure what it is. Like for example,

00:29:34   they didn't, it was impossible to know all of the colors until pre-orders open on Friday. Like it

00:29:43   was, you couldn't find it anywhere. And I find that to be really interesting. Also, I don't know

00:29:49   if this is normal, but there have been no reviews published about this Apple watch. Well, it's,

00:29:55   it's early yet. I think this will be the week that that happens. I don't know when exactly,

00:30:00   but I don't remember what happens with the watch. If they do do it this way. I think maybe last year

00:30:05   it was this way too, that the reviews came after purchase date, like pre-order date, which is not,

00:30:12   is that normal for iPhones? Did they come after pre-order day? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we, so you're

00:30:20   probably right. That'd be this week. There's been none as of yet, but a preview this week.

00:30:23   So it seems like that there might be an availability thing going on here because

00:30:28   a lot of the watches seem to be not available. And now, like if you look for any of them,

00:30:33   you know, like, like do anything with any of them, you're looking into November 4th now as well.

00:30:38   But we want to talk about colors again. So, you know, we knew this, we've spoken about this a

00:30:43   little bit. The aluminium watches this year, the colors are a bit of a mixed bag, I think,

00:30:52   right? There's not, I think a lot of people were surprised when going to order the watches that

00:30:58   there isn't like a safe default color anymore. There's no silver, right? There's no black.

00:31:05   It's like kind of black, kind of silver. And I can understand if you were looking for an aluminium

00:31:10   watch that this is, would be frustrating. I know I, if I was buying, uh, if I wanted to get an

00:31:17   aluminium Apple watch, like that was all I wanted. I don't, just looking at the Apple store page,

00:31:23   I don't think I could choose any of those colors. Maybe seeing some of them in person might change

00:31:27   it. But like, I know, as I said before, I wouldn't want the green, red or blue. That's for sure.

00:31:31   So then I'd be choosing between starlight and midnight. And I don't think it's, I don't think

00:31:36   it's a simple, a simpler choice is silver and black and gray or black as it was before.

00:31:42   Yeah. You get, you get, uh, midnight starlight, blue, green, red, but all the, you know, but no

00:31:50   silver because starlight is the new silver and midnight is the new black. Remember? And that's

00:31:55   okay. Except that, um, people like silver, right. And people like black and, you know,

00:32:05   people don't like change. I get it. Um, and also there's like color is very personal and

00:32:10   people have bought watch bands and they like the look of a particular, it is, it is a thing you

00:32:15   wear on your wrist and it's a, it's a fashion element to it. And Apple has swept away, you know,

00:32:21   silver and black or silver and space gray and replace them with midnight and starlight. And

00:32:26   they're not the same. It's like, if you have been, if you've collected your watch bands,

00:32:30   they have compatibility, which is awesome, but now the colors might not work. And it's like,

00:32:34   there's a bunch of people, I think even macro rumors ended up collecting a bunch of these

00:32:38   tweets together and publishing an article about it of like, well, if you have say the link bracelet,

00:32:43   well, and you want to, there are kind of, isn't any watch that fits with the colors of the link

00:32:49   bracelets anymore. Just pure silver and pure black. It's incredibly hard if not impossible

00:32:55   to get to buy an Apple watch now that fits with that. There's definitely no aluminums.

00:33:00   And then in the stainless steel, it starts to get complicated as well. Like for example,

00:33:05   if you want a stainless steel black watch, which is the thing that used to exist,

00:33:10   you now need to buy the Hermes black stainless steel watch because in stainless steel,

00:33:17   black has been replaced by a space graphite. So I've changed the color there, but they still

00:33:26   offer a black one, but now it's an Hermes one instead. So your graphite stainless steel case

00:33:32   starts at $699 and your space black stainless steel starts at $1,359.

00:33:38   - Well, she got a nice band, I guess.

00:33:41   - You get a single tour Hermes band. Yep.

00:33:45   - Yes. I don't know. I really don't know. And I also like this thing. So in the macro

00:33:51   mazak, I read this little quote from Harley Charlton who put it together.

00:33:54   "Apple effectively now has three separate color palettes for its devices in addition to the

00:33:58   pre-existing tonal differences within the same shade that was common to see in the likes of

00:34:02   space gray. Other product lines such as the iPad Pro, Mac Pro and HomePod mini also no longer have

00:34:08   any matching colors of the Apple watch series seven or standard iPhone 13 models. This appears

00:34:12   to have irked some users who like to have matching colors across multiple devices."

00:34:16   - Yeah. Again, it's a fashion, it's an identity thing. And any color... Like, okay.

00:34:23   If this is a color transition, I am more open to the idea that, yeah, you're gonna bug some

00:34:29   people when you redefine silver and black or silver and gray as midnight and starlight.

00:34:34   I get it. The problem I have is, as we've discussed previously, I'm not sure I believe

00:34:42   we're going through a color transition. It feels to me like it might be the fact that they use

00:34:47   midnight and starlight as names now suggest that maybe they are starting to create some sort of

00:34:53   synced up thing and that the next set of MacBook Pros or MacBooks that come out will be available

00:35:02   in starlight instead of silver. - Yeah, but I would offer space gray is the issue there,

00:35:07   where space gray has existed for years and it's always different.

00:35:10   - And is there not gonna be a space gray

00:35:15   MacBook Pro? Is there gonna be a midnight MacBook Pro? That would be kind of cool, but...

00:35:20   - I would actually kind of really dig that. - So we don't know all the details because

00:35:25   Apple's ways are mysterious. But I guess I would say that I don't have a lot of confidence,

00:35:30   as we've discussed in previous shows, I don't have a lot of confidence that Apple's color

00:35:34   system makes any sense at all and that they're really going in any direction. And it feels to

00:35:39   me like they're kind of flailing because they've got these different colors in different places and

00:35:45   that the iMacs look one way and the watches are going another way and like, what are they doing?

00:35:50   And it's unclear to me now what they're doing. But that all said, if by doing midnight in starlight,

00:35:56   they're basically putting down stakes and saying, going forward, this is what we're doing,

00:36:00   midnight in starlight, then so be it, right? You don't have to like it, but at least

00:36:05   like there's consistency to it, right? You don't have to necessarily agree with it,

00:36:10   but at least you can admire that they have a consistent plan. I'm not sure I can do that,

00:36:16   right? And so this remains something to watch, but it's frustrating, I think, more than anything else

00:36:22   that they are limiting these choices by eliminating kind of older colors that were available.

00:36:28   This was my complaint about them making the big deal about that purple iPhone and then not coming

00:36:31   up with a purple iPhone 13. Like, yay, it's purple. No, those colors are gone. No more fun

00:36:38   colors. Just a couple of okay colors and then black and white, whatever. It's distressing to me

00:36:48   because it's very chaotic now. And again, perhaps out of this chaos will come an order in that this

00:36:55   is just the messy middle as Apple tries to get its color story in place. But I don't have a high

00:37:03   degree of confidence in it, even though there are some signs that they may be trying because it still

00:37:08   seems like a pretty big mess. And maybe some of this is the products coming out in a different

00:37:14   sequence than they really intended because COVID kind of led to lots of production issues that have

00:37:18   led to their products coming out at all sorts of different times. Because part of my concern

00:37:23   about the MacBook Pros is if the MacBook Pros that we're expecting in the next few weeks

00:37:29   were really meant to come out maybe in June originally, that predates Midnight in Starlight,

00:37:36   right? So even if they've got their color game all lined up, their color ducks are in a row,

00:37:44   I was going to say. Sure, color ducks, fine. We may not see it with the MacBook Pros. They may

00:37:51   seem like another confusing regression where they just come in silver and space gray and everybody

00:37:56   goes, "What is going on?" And the answer may be, "What's really going on is this predates our 2021

00:38:02   color redesign that we're starting to roll out." But Apple's going to need to show me that it's got

00:38:09   it together a lot more before I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. It

00:38:14   seems like a mess. -I'm still looking forward to my gold one, though. -I am looking forward to

00:38:20   titanium. I know people who've had them and, again, I just kind of wanted to treat myself.

00:38:27   -I should have it for next week, so I'll be able to talk about it next week. I won't have had a lot

00:38:30   of time with it. -I should have. My understanding is that I will probably have an Apple Watch to

00:38:36   talk about next week. Not mine, but one that I will be able to temporarily possess that I'll be

00:38:42   able to talk about. -So we have that to look forward to. -Yeah. -This episode is brought to you by Hunter

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00:40:18   So we're going to talk about Apple and in-app purchases again.

00:40:21   Oh, okay.

00:40:23   I'm sorry. There's more news. I can't avoid it. You know, this is just one of those things.

00:40:27   So payments processing company Paddle has announced their plans to launch an alternative

00:40:35   in-app payment process system for iOS. So they've announced it now. People can put their name down

00:40:43   to get on a list and they can sign up later on. So this has taken advantage of the perceived

00:40:48   possibility that Apple will have to change the way that it processes in-app payment stuff. And maybe

00:40:54   also to take advantage of what's been going on with the ruling from the Japan Fair Trade Commission

00:40:59   thing, you know, like having a link, right? But Paddle have said that they will take 10% of a fee,

00:41:05   a 10% fee rather than the 30 or 15 for $10 transactions. So like if it's anything up to

00:41:13   $10, they'll take a 10% fee and it will be 5% plus a 50 cent fee flat on anything over $10. So if it's

00:41:22   something over $10, take 5% plus 50 cents, which is probably the card processing fee or whatever.

00:41:29   They will offer access to customer data for communication purposes. So email addresses and

00:41:34   stuff like that, which Apple does not do. And developers would offer a button in their

00:41:39   application. So it would say like, "Hey, go here and pay." You tap the button. It will take the

00:41:43   customer out to the web where they'll complete the transaction, which they can do through PayPal,

00:41:47   credit card or Apple Pay. And then developers can integrate everything they need in their apps to

00:41:52   ensure that the payment and customer matches up and offer all that kind of stuff. Obviously Paddle,

00:41:59   I think are playing their hand here, right? Like the first company in this space that has made a

00:42:07   song and dance about having something, because they're not the only company that could offer

00:42:11   this. Stripe could offer this. Revenue Cat could offer this. There are others that could do it.

00:42:17   Paddle has been first to say, "Hey, we are going to have a solution."

00:42:20   - I think they are anticipating a potential gold rush, right? And so they want to be there.

00:42:29   - Because look, some companies are going to need something, right? Like we're going to talk about

00:42:35   the Epic thing in a bit, but even without that, there is going to be a new requirement for

00:42:41   payment systems or not payment systems that some developers may have not needed to think about

00:42:47   before. And so you're going to have this one thing, right? Like this one link, as they say,

00:42:52   the one link for signing up. If you're a reader app, however that will end up working out.

00:42:56   So people are going to need something. And if more companies, it's like that kind of thing. Like if

00:43:04   you tell a lie often enough, it becomes truth, whatever that quote is. Like if enough companies

00:43:08   should say, "Hey, we're going to have a solution for this." Everyone's going to expect that to be

00:43:11   a thing. Maybe it'll push Apple. I don't know. - I don't know, but it's,

00:43:16   you know, they're basically investing time and effort into building this into their system,

00:43:22   which they already do, but they're trying to focus on this. I think anticipating that

00:43:29   it may be allowed and if it's not allowed that there are going to be further legal things that

00:43:36   come up. And I don't know, I kind of feel like if you are somebody who is doing web

00:43:43   transaction processing and you're monitoring what's going on with Apple, you would be making

00:43:51   a huge mistake if you weren't preparing for the possibility to win business from app developers

00:44:01   if this door opens. But you also would have to be wary of the fact that the door may not open.

00:44:08   You don't know, but I don't think, I mean, Paddle made a thing about it because they're also using

00:44:14   this for PR, right? They're also trying to get people to pay attention to Paddle. But, you know,

00:44:20   it makes sense, right? Like, and the idea here of how this would work, I mean, we don't know because

00:44:25   we don't know how Apple would implement this in terms of what they're going to allow and what

00:44:29   they're not going to allow. But if an app developer has the ability to put a button

00:44:33   on their site that goes to, or on their app that goes to a Paddle page, essentially saying,

00:44:39   "Buy this thing," and then it redirects you back to the app after the transaction is over and the

00:44:44   app goes, "Great, I've got your thing confirmed now," like that's a big deal. So maybe that will

00:44:52   happen. So I think it's smart to prepare and it's obviously smart for them to roll out PR like this.

00:44:56   - Maybe people are getting bored of hearing me say this by now, but I'm going to say it again

00:45:01   anyway. After reading this, I'm like, "Yeah, I should be able to do this as a customer.

00:45:06   I should be able to do this." Or as a developer, like, "Developers should be able to do this."

00:45:13   I can't think of a reason myself why this should not be allowed, especially this, like,

00:45:22   going out to a website and doing the transaction. It's not even happening inside of the application.

00:45:28   There is zero reason, logically, why I should not be able to make a transaction like this.

00:45:34   There is nothing that makes any sense other than the rules Apple created, which don't make sense.

00:45:41   - I agree.

00:45:41   - And so I hope that this is something that will continue to proliferate.

00:45:46   A bit more antitrust-related things. So Japan's Fair Trade Commission is now investigating the

00:45:52   overall market dominance of Apple and Google on mobile and the effects that that can have.

00:45:57   So Japan's Fair Trade Commission had the thing about IAP, and that was settled, right? That's

00:46:01   that one link thing that we've yet to see anything more from, but we'll get at some point.

00:46:06   Now then, there's a whole separate investigation now. The Dutch antitrust authority has ruled that

00:46:12   Apple's in-app purchase requirements are anti-competitive. They're talking about the

00:46:16   rules around exclusivity of payments and the size of Apple's cut. The Dutch authorities have

00:46:20   demanded that Apple make changes to their system, and it's currently under further legal review.

00:46:25   We have no comments all around from everybody. No one's given any comments.

00:46:28   And Apple has appealed Judge Gonzalez's ruling on changing how IAP could work. So the thing that

00:46:35   the only thing that Apple lost in the EPIC trial, which is the thing that we're almost interested in,

00:46:40   which is the idea of them. It was the whole thing, right, that we were talking about with like,

00:46:45   no one's really sure what this means, right? But it could mean that maybe in-app purchases

00:46:50   would be allowed from other vendors or whatever. So I'll read a quote from MacRumors. Apple has

00:46:56   asked the court for a stay on the permanent injunction that requires it to implement those

00:47:00   changes by December. So basically, Apple is appealing and asking for a delay, so they are

00:47:07   not going to be forced to make their changes by the end of the year. So Apple is saying they need

00:47:13   more time before they make changes to quote, not upset the balance between developers and customers

00:47:19   and to make sure that they're doing things correctly and safely for their users. So Apple

00:47:24   doesn't think it's nothing, right? They think it's enough to appeal and say, please don't make us do

00:47:32   this by now. Well, I mean, we all knew that that was the case, but there, but there, yeah, this is

00:47:35   the, that we want everything except for this one little thing. We don't, we also don't want that

00:47:39   one little thing. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that's the kind of funny thing about it. It's like,

00:47:43   we won, but now we're appealing part of it, but we definitely won. You didn't see the asterisk there

00:47:50   next to we won that leads you to a footnote that refers you to another document that mentions that

00:47:55   there's one part where we didn't win. Oh, well, so at some point Apple is going to say, is going

00:48:01   to give more information about how people can put this one link in the system, but they've not done

00:48:07   it yet. And, or what, I mean, I'm still hoping maybe blindly that they are going to have big app

00:48:14   store changes come at some point, but they want to make sure they have the time to do them because,

00:48:18   and the reason I brought in the thing from the, from Japan and from the Dutch antitrust authority,

00:48:24   it's just further proof of like, it's only getting more complicated for them if they keep holding on.

00:48:32   Yeah. It's just, it's just going to keep happening. This is Apple. I'm sure behind the scenes,

00:48:41   Apple is strategizing about what they have to do here. I'm unclear on whether Apple is worried

00:48:49   about having to technically implement something so that they're in line with the orders.

00:48:56   Right. Like the idea that, okay, let's get on this and let's have a plan. Like you said,

00:49:02   which I think would be, it strikes me as being prudent to say, we need to build in a whole bunch

00:49:06   of trap doors now that allow us to change this on the fly as different jurisdictions tell us

00:49:15   different behaviors. Right? Like I think it would be prudent for Apple engineering wise to look at

00:49:22   the state of affairs right now and say, we need to envision a world where in different locations for

00:49:29   different kinds of software, there are different rules and our system has to adjust to all these

00:49:34   things. And we're going to have to build in ways for that to work. Now app developers who are

00:49:41   listening to this are probably chuckling heartily at the idea that Apple is going to be able to move

00:49:48   nimbly with, especially their backend systems, because the backend systems for developers are

00:49:53   kind of horrifyingly not good compared to the software quality that happens in Apple systems.

00:49:59   Is it all like built on top of, on top of, on top of all things?

00:50:03   Yeah. I mean, and it's not a, the polish is not a priority for the stuff that's behind the scenes.

00:50:07   If you've ever been backstage at a theater, right? The front of the theater is all soft fabrics and

00:50:12   pretty and all that. And you go backstage and it is completely industrial and awful because it's not

00:50:17   for, you know, you work here now you don't get the fancy stuff. Well, that's what the developer tools

00:50:22   are like at behind the scenes at the app store. The reason I bring this up though, is that would

00:50:26   seem to make sense, right? Like, Hey, we're in a different environment now let's plan. However,

00:50:33   I will say legally, I wonder if Apple wants to be able to claim that it's too hard.

00:50:39   And so the other way to go, and I don't know what the legal issues are and what Apple's lawyers

00:50:45   would recommend, but I can definitely see the argument that somebody might make that says,

00:50:51   if you make it so that you can flip a switch that to do this thing, they'll make you flip a switch.

00:50:58   But if you make it, but if it currently is really hard to do this thing, you can plead

00:51:05   hardship and string this out or limit its appeal. I wouldn't believe it. Well, that's the thing.

00:51:13   Anyone that would allow them to say that, I think it, that would just be so frustrating to me.

00:51:19   Right. It's Oh, we're Apple. You don't understand where Apple, we can't do things. And then be like,

00:51:24   really? And that's right. And that's why I think that there's, that's an interesting strategy thing.

00:51:28   Cause I think, um, legal claims being set aside the legal claims for a second.

00:51:34   If I'm inside Apple, I, what I don't want to do is get a court order that is basically,

00:51:42   you know, you've got 30 days to implement this feature. So maybe you start planning what you

00:51:48   would implement or building in trap doors. Like I said, things that you can flip the switch and say,

00:51:55   well, now in Korea, this thing now is allowed. Um, you'd think you'd want to prepare like paddle

00:52:03   is preparing, right? You think you'd want to prepare, but Apple's behavior up to now suggests

00:52:10   that they are much more obstinate than that. And so I wouldn't put it past them to say,

00:52:16   no, no preparing. We won't prepare until the moment they force us, which I don't know. I

00:52:23   wouldn't put it past him, I guess is what I'm saying, but it would seem prudent to be preparing

00:52:27   for the fact that we are like preparing years ago for this years ago, but, but now, now it has never

00:52:34   been more clear no matter how you feel about these rules and these rulings and what's going on in the

00:52:40   current environment. I think it's undeniable that we are entering an age where a bunch of Apple's

00:52:46   policies that Apple has been able to make and, you know, rule by Fiat and just say, this is,

00:52:50   this is the law. We make the law. We are entering an era where that's not going to be true anymore.

00:52:56   We're entering an era where regulators and judges are going to tell Apple there are certain things

00:53:02   that Apple wants to do that they're not allowed to do. This is, this is Apple's future Apple.

00:53:08   I think you would have to be the biggest optimist pro Apple optimist in the world to imagine that

00:53:15   Apple's business is not going to be dictated. Business and policies are not going to be at

00:53:21   least somewhat dictated by governments and regulators and and lawsuits and judges

00:53:30   implementing lawsuits. Like it's going to happen. It's, it seems very unlikely now may not happen to

00:53:36   the extent we think, and it may happen in surprising areas and not in other surprising

00:53:40   areas. I mean, that's, I feel like that's a given that there's going to be like everything that what,

00:53:43   whatever your number one thing is on your list is like, now this is the thing that Apple does

00:53:47   that's really bad. So I'm sure that'll get thrown out and that one will mark my words. That one will

00:53:53   stay. And this minor thing, that's like number five on your list. That one will turn around and

00:53:58   you'd be like, why did you turn around that one? Cause that's how it works. Stuff like that happens.

00:54:03   But anyway, I think it's inevitable. So a, a good capable manager inside Apple needs to be

00:54:12   thinking about all of that and planning and Apple needs to be much, you know, planning for the way,

00:54:17   the last thing you want is to implement something badly because you're forced to,

00:54:23   because you pretended not to know what was coming. And, you know, in the end,

00:54:28   if Apple does something bad because a judge tells them to, people aren't going to blame the judge.

00:54:34   They're going to blame Apple. And so Apple needs to be ready to move on this stuff,

00:54:40   whether they like it or not and do a good and do a good job with it. Because if they do a bad

00:54:45   job with it, we're not going to blame the judge. We're not going to blame the regulator. We're

00:54:49   going to blame Apple for doing a bad job and botching it. It's just quite frankly, this business

00:54:54   is too big now. It's it's so big. It's one of the bigger business is in the wall, right? And every

00:55:01   business needs to be in this business. Dan Warren wrote a piece of Mac world a couple of weeks ago

00:55:06   that was basically like Apple is a country now. And you have to view it that way. It is a, it is

00:55:11   a huge thing. I wrote a thing about the 10th anniversary of Steve Jobs's death, which was

00:55:17   last week. And I just did the kind of, you know, we do the quarter over quarter or year over year

00:55:22   comparisons. I did a decade over decade comparison. And it's just like, it is breathtaking how much

00:55:28   larger Apple is now than it was 10 years ago. And so, yeah, this is just the game they're in now,

00:55:33   or, and this made me laugh in the discord upgrade in David Schaub just said, where is the puck going

00:55:40   to be? And like, we use that a lot, but it really made me smile because this is where the puck is

00:55:46   going to be. It's going to be in court. It's going to be in regulators and the puck orders.

00:55:52   The puck, the puck is in the court. So the puck is in the European commission. The puck is in all

00:55:58   sorts of places that are not in Cupertino. And so if you're Apple get to skating, I guess.

00:56:03   They need a wartime consigliere over there. I think at the moment, that's right. Europe

00:56:07   is settling all business at the moment saying selling all families. That's right. They're

00:56:11   going to the mattresses. We got any other references they're making them an offer they

00:56:14   can't refuse. They, uh, they, uh, I asked them for a favor one day. Let's it's all a Godfather

00:56:20   on the day of my, no, you come to me on the day of my operating system release

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00:58:25   Our thanks to Gabby for their support of this show and all of Relay FM. Let's do some #askupgrade

00:58:31   questions to finish out today's show. Rajat asks, "If Europe compel..." I love this question so much.

00:58:38   This is so good. "If Europe compels Apple to replace Lightning with USB-C and the French law

00:58:44   to include a hands-free kit remains unchanged, would Apple design a new version of AirPods of

00:58:51   USB-C or will they just give up and give AirPods for everybody in France for free?" -I like this

00:58:57   question too. Boxes within boxes within boxes. I think the answer is that if there was, and there's

00:59:06   so many questions here, if Apple had to make a USB-C iPhone because of the European Commission,

00:59:12   and if the French law remains, what would happen to the headphones in the box? I think the answer is

00:59:16   probably they would just do a Lightning to USB-C adapter for the AirPods or they would just make

00:59:23   some AirPods with USB-C. It's also suggesting like, is there a USB-C model that's only in the

00:59:32   EU or would it be that that would force Apple to make it everywhere because they wouldn't want to

00:59:38   make two, and at that point they would make a, their wired headphones would be USB-C. I think

00:59:44   there may even already be USB-C. -There isn't, I just looked. They do Lightning and 3.5 millimeter.

00:59:51   -Okay, so you, and you can get a 3.5 to USB-C adapter. So they could just include that, the

00:59:58   3.5 version and the adapter, or they could just build some that, I mean, it's just different

01:00:04   cords, right? Basically they build some that with a USB-C on it instead. I just, I think it would be

01:00:10   that simple. It just depends on how spiteful Apple is being, but I don't think Apple's going to put

01:00:15   AirPods in the box that's in the box. -Or they put AirPods in the box and like, what if you want to

01:00:21   use them? You've got to get an adapter. Like, they put the AirPods in, like, just the, the maybe the

01:00:26   3.5 ones and they're like, you know, bring your own adapter. -No, I don't think France will let them do that.

01:00:30   I think they have to actually work. -Because you've got somebody, once somebody think of the children.

01:00:34   Rowan asks, "Do I recall correctly a WWDC announcement about Swift Playgrounds being able to build

01:00:41   and submit iOS apps straight from an iOS app, like from the iPad?" -Yes. -I haven't heard about it since.

01:00:48   -Yeah, they did announce that. -I've forgotten about this completely, and I looked it up, Rowan, on your behalf,

01:00:53   because that's what we do here on Ask Upgrade. -That's right, we care. -So, this is coming with version 4 of

01:00:58   Swift Playgrounds, which is not available yet, and Apple had said, like, later this year, so that

01:01:04   version is just not available right now. They haven't shipped it yet. -Get ready. -That will come.

01:01:09   I'm going to be really intrigued to see what that process is like, you know. Someone's going to do

01:01:13   that, probably Steve Trout and Smith, and I'm really, I'm really intrigued to see, like, what will it look

01:01:21   like to build an app in Swift Playgrounds and then submit it to the App Store? Like, what is that

01:01:25   process going to look like? -Could be Rambo, could be Gee Rambo. -Could be, could be. -It's going to be

01:01:30   somebody, though, there's going to be, well, I'll tell you what Apple's going to do is, Apple is going

01:01:34   to release a press release about a teenager who built their own app entirely in Swift Playgrounds

01:01:40   and is selling it on the App Store. -Yeah. -With a profile. -And is integrated paddle for their, for their

01:01:46   own app purchases. -Well, it turns out that now, in the terms and conditions of using Swift Playgrounds,

01:01:52   you have to only use Apple's in-app purchase systems. They've just moved all of those rules

01:01:56   down into Swift Playgrounds as a development environment. -Brant asks, "Regarding your thoughts

01:02:01   on why the iPad Mini makes sense for people who don't want to use an iPad Pro to, you know, really

01:02:06   take advantage of what that can do, is there a reason that the standard iPad isn't the better

01:02:11   option with it being $170 cheaper? Is it because the Mini is smaller or lighter?" -Yeah, we were speaking

01:02:17   in the context of the iPad Mini as a reading device, basically, and content consumption device, but

01:02:24   really, like, as a reader, and, and so, yeah, that's the answer is because it's smaller and lighter, it's

01:02:30   better suited to be a reading device, and, and so, I've talked to a lot of people who get an iPad Pro

01:02:38   or an iPad Air, and they feel guilty that it's not living up to its full potential, and the iPad Mini

01:02:44   maybe makes them feel better about it. Of course the standard iPad is there, and it's cheaper.

01:02:49   The context is just different then, like, because then it's, then it's bigger, and it's heavier, and so

01:02:56   it's less good as a reader, and it's got the home button and stuff, right? Like, and it doesn't support

01:03:02   some of the other stuff that, that the Mini supports, but that really was just the context of it

01:03:06   being a reader, and that the, the cheap iPad is fine too. It's just not as nice a reader because

01:03:12   it's not as small and light as the Mini. -And I'll speak for myself too, I forget that the iPad exists.

01:03:18   I do, because it's not in my, it's not, I'm not personally excited about it. -I would not recommend

01:03:23   it for most people because it is, it is a full generation behind on technology at this point,

01:03:28   but, you know, it's, the price can't be beat, right? Like, that's a good, good price. -It's a fantastic price.

01:03:34   What does the iPad Air start at? -Oh, it's in the middle, it's in the 500s, yeah, yeah. -And so, like, you know,

01:03:41   again, it's not as easy to just say, "Hey, go up and get that one," and I understand that. It's like, for me,

01:03:46   like, a lot of this stuff, it really is the things that I talk about, I want to talk about the thing

01:03:54   that I personally am excited about the most, you know? I don't have access to all of these products, so.

01:04:00   -Ipad Air is 600. -Okay, so that's quite expensive. -Yeah, it is. It's, it's, it's cheap when you consider

01:04:08   the Pro, but if you're, if you're, it's expensive when you're considering the cheaper ones, right?

01:04:15   And it is, most of the Pro-- -I was hoping it was going to be like, "Oh, you know, just pay this bit more,"

01:04:20   and you could get-- -No. -No, that's much, much more. -It's substantially more. -Yeah, much, much more.

01:04:23   And, like, so, yeah, the, the regular iPad is definitely there for iPad-y things, but I still stand by, like,

01:04:30   the iPad Mini, I think, is the best iPad you can get, obviously, because it's expensive and you're at blah,

01:04:37   blah, blah, for those, like, content consumption tasks. I remain, people are gonna get so bored of me saying

01:04:43   this, I am in love with that iPad Mini. Oh my god, this is the best. -It's great. -I love it so much.

01:04:47   Rajeev asks, "Do you think Apple will expand iCloud Private Relay beyond Safari and into other

01:04:56   applications? What do you think?" -I don't know how it works technically. I would think that, that once,

01:05:01   well, first they have to ship it as, like, on and out of beta and all of those things, right?

01:05:06   Um, so, let's wait for them to get there, but yes, I think iCloud Private Relay is the start of something

01:05:18   that will expand and grow and become, I would not be surprised if it eventually becomes essentially

01:05:27   a VPN, but not, but Apple in its own Apple-y way will implement it they way, the way they will, but I

01:05:35   feel like this is the beginning of Apple, um, moving your networking traffic in ways that make it more

01:05:42   secure and private. I think it'll keep happening. -Yeah, I know for me this is gonna be one of those features

01:05:46   that, like, I'm gonna let everyone else try it for a while and, like, I'm like, I don't know, like, it's, uh,

01:05:52   I just, I'm not sure how I feel about it, like, even on all the time and just, like, the issues that it

01:05:58   could cause, I don't know, I'll wait and see. This is one of those things, like, many things that Apple

01:06:01   does around services, like, I will let other people try this first before I wade into that water, but I

01:06:07   do, uh, I do, I think ultimately it makes sense for them to do it for all internet traffic, like, there's

01:06:14   a lot of internet traffic that isn't through Safari and if Apple really want to provide that level of

01:06:19   security to their iCloud customers, having this available, and this privacy, I should say, rather than

01:06:24   security specifically, but having this available is a good thing. I think the worry could be

01:06:30   potentially things, like, not working, but this is what I'm talking about, like, I saw a lot of people

01:06:35   in the beta saying, like, they couldn't buy tickets on Ticketmaster and stuff like that, right, um, and so,

01:06:42   and these things are so obscured, right, like, all you know is you're looking at the web browser and

01:06:49   it's not letting you do a thing, right, and it's like, oh, because it's trying to understand where

01:06:55   you are geographically or whatever. I think that's why it's a beta, I mean, I think that's why it's still in beta.

01:07:00   I think that's why it happened, because it wasn't pitched as such when they showed it off at WWDC, and I think

01:07:06   Apple quite rightly were like, well, this could be tricky, like, we need to spend more time on this,

01:07:10   and this is a thing they've done before, so, like, the, the app tracking transparency thing, right, it was

01:07:15   announced, and then they just kept delaying, kept delaying, kept delaying, because it could upset a

01:07:20   lot of Apple carts, and you've got to make sure you're getting it right before you put it in place, so

01:07:25   maybe they'll wait for iCalPilotRelay 2 for that, I don't know, but yes, if it works eventually,

01:07:32   uh, it should be in everything. Similarly, I want web extensions in Safari View Controller, put those

01:07:37   in there while you're at it, you know, like, I'm really loving using the 1Password extension, but if

01:07:42   I'm inside of another app trying to log into something, no, it doesn't work, like, I want to have

01:07:46   that wherever I can get Safari, I want the, uh, the extensions too, so. Yeah, I, uh, open things in web

01:07:53   views now in apps, and I cry, because they're bad, because they don't have the extensions in them, so.

01:07:58   Or like the cookie notification blocker things. Yeah, well, at night, uh, Noir doesn't fire off in a web view,

01:08:06   I'm like, no, it's so bright, open the web, open in Safari, no, it's just, I'm, I want them all, be, be my

01:08:13   extensions, so, yeah, put it everywhere, please. I get it, I get why you got to start somewhere, but

01:08:19   man, I already just love those extensions, so. If you'd like to send in a question, uh, for us to answer

01:08:26   on the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #askupgrade, or use question mark ask upgrade in

01:08:30   the Relay FM members Discord, which you'll get access to if you sign up for Upgrade Plus. Go to

01:08:35   getupgradeplus.com and you will get longer ad-free episodes of Upgrade every single week. Thank you so

01:08:41   much if you support the show by doing so. Also, thank you to Gabby, Hunter Douglas, and DoorDash

01:08:46   for their support of this week's episode, and thank you for listening. If you'd like to find Jason online,

01:08:51   you can go to sixcolors.com, the incomparable.com, and also here at Relay FM, Jason hosts a number of

01:08:57   shows, including the new and awesome Downstream, which you should go check out. Um, Jason is @jsnell,

01:09:03   J-S-N-E-L-L, and I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. And hey, I make some products, some journals and notebooks, go

01:09:11   to cortexmerch.com and you can check those out. I would very much appreciate it. We'll be back next

01:09:17   time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. The iPad Mini. Myke took it out of a box, and he will use it

01:09:23   with a fox. He will use it on the train, but will not use it in the rain. It is not waterproof, you see.

01:09:30   Don't bathe with the iPad Mini. Bravo. It's Dr. Seuss. Well, it's Dr. Snell.

01:09:38   [Laughing]

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