374: Abnormal Within an Abnormal Group


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 374. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14   Fitbod, Squarespace and TexExpander. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi Jason.

00:00:20   Hi Myke, how are you? I'm good. So today is uh October 4th and I broke down 10/4 and so

00:00:28   10/4 good buddy. 10/4 good buddy. Breaker breaker. Breaker. I have a hashtag snow talk question for

00:00:33   you big eagle and it comes from Ryan. Ryan wants to know do you use any developer provided

00:00:40   alternate icons in apps? I was thinking about this. I have uh a few, a handful. I think I'm using the

00:00:53   orange icon in Carrot Weather. I'm using, if there's an alternate icon that is the six

00:01:01   apple colors because of my personal brand, I will choose it. So my pcalc icon is like that. I think

00:01:08   I have Apollo installed, the reddit client, although I almost never use it and I think I'm using the

00:01:13   the six colors icon there and I am using the purple background I think slack icon

00:01:23   mostly because it's so hard to tell the difference between slack and photos

00:01:26   or office or any of the google products or like just anything because they weren't with just

00:01:34   corporate. For me it's mostly photos but yes it's really annoying and and so I'm using the purple

00:01:39   background. It's just just reminding me that I don't know if they have that option on the mac.

00:01:45   They don't but you could always just download one. You could just yeah you could do that yourself.

00:01:50   You could hijack a different icon. I realize I have the white icon on my mac. I do this quite a lot.

00:01:58   If a developer offers it I will always look and if there's something that I prefer I'll change it.

00:02:02   This isn't always the case. Like for example Todoist, they offer lots of different colors

00:02:07   but I prefer their standard which is red with white but some of the ones that I use, I use Carrot

00:02:14   one. They have like a neon-y kind of one. I don't remember the name but it looks like the logo is

00:02:18   made out of neon. Craft, they have a lot of good options and I use a nice one with a bit of a

00:02:23   texture on it. I also use the six color one for pcalc. I use the dark icon for overcast. I use,

00:02:30   I also use the purple one for slack. I use the dark version like the blacked out version of

00:02:36   fantastical. Narwhal, I also use the dark version. If I use an app, well I tend to use all my apps in

00:02:43   dark mode but if there's like a dark mode version of an icon I'll always change to it because that

00:02:47   is kind of my mental model for the application. And parcel as well has a bunch of them.

00:02:53   You know the one that I don't like the dark icon of is overcast.

00:02:56   No I do. I really like the orange and I don't like the negative space one.

00:03:02   Do you mean like the overall dark mode itself or just the icon?

00:03:06   Oh well I also, do I use overcast in dark mode? I think I don't but the icon is I like that orange

00:03:13   icon too much to do the alternate icon. Yeah you see for me the application is all black like dark

00:03:20   gray and blue so for the icon to be orange would mess up my brain. Fair enough. That's just for me

00:03:25   because like because the icon matches the colors of the application. I like it when I can when I

00:03:30   can also do that. I'm never going to turn down an orange icon I guess is what I'm saying. That makes

00:03:34   sense. I really love this feature in general. I think all developers should offer options.

00:03:40   Why not like just go for it. It's a fun little thing to do and it's also an easy thing to sell

00:03:45   as an extra for people too. I think this podcast is on the record as saying one colors are fun

00:03:53   and two having fun on your device is fun is good. It's good. Colors of fun, fun is good.

00:04:04   Fun is underrated. We should yeah people should people having fun is a good thing and colors are

00:04:09   fun so of course you should have alternate icons because people should customize their devices and

00:04:16   have that be fun. Yeah always a fun always a fun. So let's do some follow-up Jason. Oh by the way if

00:04:24   you'd like to send in a question for Snail Talk hashtag Snail Talk or question mark Snail Talk in

00:04:27   the Relay FM members Discord. Thank you to Ryan for that great question. I just wanted to say the

00:04:32   Saint Jude campaign is now over. The donation page is going to stop accepting donations tomorrow

00:04:38   as we record this. This is because we have our final corporate matches still left to be added in.

00:04:44   I am not going to spoil the total amount that has been raised. I do know what it is but I'm not

00:04:51   going to spoil it before it's actually been added and it hasn't at the time of recording. But it is

00:04:56   the campaign has exceeded all possible expectations that we ever could have had.

00:05:02   Like right now it's over $680,000 as I'm talking right now without those final corporate matches

00:05:08   added in. So I just want to thank all of our listeners for helping support such an incredible

00:05:14   cause and we really really appreciate it. Yeah. I have some follow-up from Christopher. So if you

00:05:22   remember the last couple of weeks when we've been talking about some stuff with photos you've been

00:05:26   mentioning the lookup visual lookup feature which you know the thing that can't detect cats.

00:05:32   But can detect plants. Yes, thinks every cat is a tailless cat. Yep. And I kept saying I'm not

00:05:37   seeing this I'm not seeing this. Christopher wrote in to say it's US only right now. Yeah.

00:05:41   You apparently have to have your device set to US English and then it will show up. Some of this

00:05:46   stuff is so strangely arbitrary. It's like oh no we can only recognize dogs in America. English dogs?

00:05:53   No way. Forget it. It's not not there. Freedom dogs only. We know that's right. We don't understand

00:06:00   anything. No this is not true because I can recognize pictures that I took when I was

00:06:04   traveling outside of the US. But I can only recognize them in the US. That makes it even

00:06:08   more annoying right like you can recognize things in the United Kingdom. I can and I did.

00:06:14   Buildings. That's the thing is I've got various pictures of buildings in London where it's like

00:06:18   I know what that building is and yet you can't do that you are in London. So what what is that about?

00:06:24   I don't know. I don't know. It's a mystery. This is something I saw on MacRumors today when I was

00:06:33   preparing for the show. As I was as I do on a Monday morning I kind of go through my RSS

00:06:38   of make sure I'm caught up on all the news and stuff that I want to bring to the episode. I saw

00:06:42   a headline that created great nostalgia for me for last year and it's iPhone 13 models still include

00:06:48   EarPods in the box in France. Yeah oh this is this is I admire MacRumors in industry for writing a

00:06:59   story about what was already true about the next but it's a new iPhone and it's still there. Still

00:07:03   there. A new story is written about the thing that we talked about. MacRumors is the canary in the

00:07:07   coal mine for EarPods now. That's right if they if they stop writing about French EarPods then

00:07:12   we'll know something is up. And of course it's the classic box within a box maneuver where they

00:07:18   literally ship the iPhone 13 box inside another box that also has EarPods in it. Yeah so they

00:07:25   don't change the box that everybody else gets. They just the shipping box or something. They just put

00:07:29   like a white it's like generic white box. It's so great. It's really just Apple being like hey

00:07:34   France here you go whatever. This came up I think because last year when they removed the power

00:07:40   adapter right and this was like a whole conversation of like local laws can still make

00:07:46   Apple force Apple to do things and in France is one of them. The law being that you have to have

00:07:52   a hands-free kit which is just like a hilarious notion now I think anyway but you know you still

00:07:59   have to have a hands-free kit as if nobody could use a speakerphone. So without getting too deep

00:08:06   down into people having opinions about the EC the European Commission potentially saying that

00:08:14   that USB-C has to be a standard and there's lots of arguments about that that have been going on

00:08:19   kind of in the the sphere of Apple conversation the last few weeks. I will say that this is a

00:08:26   great bit of information for the side that points out that having big bureaucracies make decisions

00:08:35   based on technology that moves fast like vastly faster than they do is dumb and it's because the

00:08:42   hands-free kit specifically this is something from an era like pre-smartphone essentially where there

00:08:49   was all sorts of talk about how you if you hold your phone up to your face a lot you may be

00:08:54   getting dangerous amounts of radiation and it's unclear whether that's real or not but they passed

00:08:59   this rule at an in an era that was like prehistoric in terms of how we would think of it now but that

00:09:07   regulation just never died and so we're left with the box in the box in France. So it is I think an

00:09:15   argument about you know say what you will about governmental organizations regulating the technology

00:09:22   industry and I think it's a complex conversation and I think there are pros and cons and John

00:09:28   Gruber and I talked about it on the talk show last week for a little while and because I'm more

00:09:36   bullish on the long-term life of the USB-C connector than I think a lot of people are

00:09:40   because I think as I've mentioned here before if you think about the USB-A connector that has

00:09:46   been with us for 25 years now. And it was a bad connector. And it was bad right it was way worse

00:09:52   than USB-C so I feel like USB-C although you know there'll be different labels and they'll be

00:09:56   incompatible and all that but that actual plug will probably be with us for the rest of our lives

00:10:00   honestly like once it's in it'll probably be impossible to get it out but these regulations

00:10:07   my point is this is a great example of regulating something because of a controversy and a

00:10:13   conversation that happened when we were carrying around like big thick like Nokia phones with

00:10:20   weird chargers and weird headphones that weren't proprietary connectors and you had to buy adapters

00:10:28   for those and somebody in France made this a rule and now we are left with an iPhone 13 coming

00:10:35   inside a white box with headphones inside of it and that that's it's kind of dumb.

00:10:40   Yeah like I think that this hands-free thing was created for driving safety but I don't really think

00:10:46   that hands-free kits are what people tend to use these days anyway right like well so many cars

00:10:54   have all the stuff connected to them for speakerphone or people just use whatever they use.

00:10:59   Myke at least according to the bible of iPhones in boxes in France macrumors.com this is in order

00:11:06   to protect children under 14 years of age from potential electromagnetic radiation.

00:11:10   Oh my god I forgot.

00:11:11   Yeah go to the source go to the experts in macrumors.

00:11:15   This is what happened last time.

00:11:17   Joe Rossignol is on it I love Joe is a friend of the show Joe actually that that Joe has to write

00:11:24   this story every year but it's it's to protect children from cell phone radiation by holding

00:11:29   their phones to their faces which quite honestly there's is there a child who holds their iPhone

00:11:34   up to their head ever? Maybe in France they do things different in France I don't know.

00:11:40   I fell into the same trap where I tried to apply logic to this rule and then got caught out I think

00:11:46   Rossignol is a French name too so I guess that's why Joe has to write this article

00:11:52   like it's gonna be my assumption.

00:11:54   Joe I believe is Canadian I think he's in Toronto but you know it's basically

00:12:00   Europe at that point from an American perspective so I'm sure they stuck him on it it's like Canada

00:12:04   that's overseas of the Americans yeah you're on the beat you're on the France beat Rossignol

00:12:10   doesn't sound sounds kind of French isn't it you're on the box in a box beat Joe go to it

00:12:16   and we thank him for his service the box and I and thanks to the macrumors foreign members

00:12:21   who always send a picture to Joe of the box in a box another part of this story that delights me so

00:12:28   yeah stacks thanks for the stacks this one thanks for his own trick once again you you were trapped

00:12:33   inside the box inside the box the Apple watch series 7 was announced today that pre-orders

00:12:39   begin this Friday and they're shipping from the 15th of October.

00:12:44   Uh very excited I want I want one I want one can we you're planning on pre-ordering one

00:12:50   yes my only hesitation is that I'll get it my problem with pre-ordering anything these days

00:12:56   honestly because I was thinking about this with the with iphone too is you can get up early in the

00:13:03   morning if you're in the US or if you're in in Pacific and you can press the button at that time

00:13:08   and they may give you a date that is the ship date and say it'll be at your house that date

00:13:12   but what I found is if I wait for the release date and go to the website and say can I pick it up at

00:13:18   my local Apple store they say sure go ahead just come on in and pick one up you can order it now

00:13:24   and pick it up in two hours so I'm I'm less enthusiastic about the pre-order because I know

00:13:33   that this the secret right has been unlocked for me which is if you live near an Apple store and I

00:13:38   live very near an Apple store they have stock on day one and you can go to Apple's website that day

00:13:44   and say I would like this and they say what time would you like to pick it up and that's pretty

00:13:49   good that's pretty nice so we'll see we'll see I'm gonna give it a try I think and if I'm unhappy

00:13:56   with what I see perhaps I'll change my mind I don't know the beauty of it is if it's if your

00:14:00   order is way back ordered like beyond a few days where your order is not going to go into process

00:14:07   you can cancel that order if they have them in stock on day one and just get them that way

00:14:12   yeah I'm planning on pre-ordering but I'm not around to either collect or accept a delivery

00:14:19   on the 15th so I oh I don't know and I'll find out is if I can arrange for a collection for a future

00:14:26   date so like maybe on Sunday or Monday or something to go pick it up we'll see that that that will be

00:14:31   my plan if I can't do that then I'll just wait I guess so let's do some upstream news this is where

00:14:39   we take a look at some of the news in streaming media mostly with a focus on Apple but before we

00:14:45   go upstream why don't we go downstream Jason would you like to tell the Upgradients about a brand new

00:14:51   podcast that has debuted here on relay FM uh yeah it's called downstream it's a little play on uh

00:14:57   upstream and also a play on download which I used to do it is a podcast with me and Julia Alexander

00:15:03   if people remember the episode where Myke disappeared in the middle of it and we talked

00:15:06   about we did like a mega upstream with Julia who is an analyst at at Parrot Analytics her entire

00:15:12   job is thinking about the streaming wars and the changes in entertainment in the business of

00:15:19   entertainment the stuff that we talk about here on upstream that's her job she thinks about that

00:15:23   all the time and we had a great time with her as a guest and so then we recorded a test show

00:15:27   and that was good and so we're going to launch officially on Wednesday we'll record and release

00:15:33   episode one of downstream episode zero is out now sort of to prime the pump and let people subscribe

00:15:38   and it's got our test show in it from August tacked on to the end of it and then every other week

00:15:44   we will be talking about these issues and that's what the whole podcast is is talking about

00:15:49   the you know the future of streaming media and the what the how it's going to change how we

00:15:55   consume entertainment in our homes and you know and movie theaters and you know everything else

00:16:00   that's involved with the the shift from linear tv and movie theaters to streaming and maybe

00:16:07   movie theaters but we'll we'll we'll talk about all that stuff and so i'm looking forward to it

00:16:12   i i have a upstream is fun but we don't get to it every week and it's a little more focused on apple

00:16:18   i used to talk with tim goodman about this stuff every week on the tv talk machine podcast but tim

00:16:22   retired from that part of the business and so i'm sort of filling that tv talk machine shaped hole

00:16:30   in my life with uh with downstream yeah i'm really excited about it i'm so pleased uh that we're able

00:16:36   to walk in julia to the relay fm family she's yes absolutely yeah she's super sharp so smart and

00:16:41   very very happy that we're able to make this happen i have loved her coverage of this stuff

00:16:45   for years now great twitter follow yep yep and uh so to be able to talk about it with her

00:16:52   every fortnight is uh it's gonna be great um and for those who listen live uh we record we're

00:16:59   gonna record it probably during connected so we'll be broadcasting it live but it'll be yet another

00:17:04   wednesday podcast on relay fm where we love a good wednesday all the podcasts come out on wednesdays

00:17:09   love a good wednesday around yeah you know i'm real i'm genuinely really excited about it it's

00:17:14   obviously a topic that i have interest in too because it's something that we bring to this show

00:17:18   but it's gonna be going in much in much more depth and talking about things that we just wouldn't get

00:17:24   to uh so if you like upstream like if you enjoy this segment of the show don't worry it's not

00:17:30   going away um but there will be even more conversation about this type of stuff in more

00:17:35   depth and spanning out across the industry at large at downstream so you can go to relay.fm

00:17:40   downstream and you can check it out so to talk about some headlines of our own here the athletic

00:17:48   is reporting that apple is nfl's favorite for their out of market package this is the sunday

00:17:55   ticket thing we were talking about nfl sunday ticket right we've mentioned this before

00:17:59   um this was the case i think i think grouper asked me about this on the talk show last week he

00:18:05   actually played point blank he was like do you think apple's going to get nfl sunday tickets

00:18:08   nfl sunday ticket is basically all the football games not being aired in your area so uh your

00:18:15   local station will broadcast a game and if you've got it you know you've got a couple different

00:18:18   network affiliates you'll get maybe three games on a sunday all the rest of the games that are

00:18:23   being played on a sunday are not available for you to see if you're a fan of a team that is not

00:18:27   one of your local teams you can't see that stuff so it's been a very successful product i would say

00:18:34   for direct tv for the last like 20 years i think um like literally when i moved into our house here

00:18:41   which was a long time ago i got satellite tv specifically to get nfl sunday ticket and so it

00:18:46   was a way for them as a to sell people on the idea of not doing cable and instead doing satellite

00:18:53   so they could get this exclusive thing so i think it's driven a huge amount of sales and as a result

00:19:00   it's sort of become the kind of thing you pay for we've talked about it here before it's the

00:19:03   kind of thing that if you're a tv provider you you bid for knowing you're going to lose money on it

00:19:10   because you've got some other goal and that's like with direct tv it was driving subscriptions like

00:19:16   we overpay for this but it gets people to be direct tv customers and then we've got them for years and

00:19:21   years and years paying monthly for our service so what would apple do with it i don't know but like

00:19:27   i think it's interesting that if apple wants to goose subscriptions to apple tv plus and make it a

00:19:34   requirement for sunday ticket they're going to get a lot more people signing up for apple tv plus

00:19:39   right so that that would be big picture strategy and you know apple and amazon i would say also

00:19:44   who i think is a severe serious competitor for this product those are big tech companies that

00:19:49   are playing a different game netflix is playing the game of subscriber acquisition uh disney plus

00:19:56   is is subscriber acquisition disney and espn right but apple and amazon like they they're

00:20:03   their business this is a tiny part of their overall business and i think that makes them maybe more

00:20:09   likely to overpay for it because the point is really just to drive more people into the rest

00:20:16   of what they do so it's an interesting idea it would definitely i actually think it's great for

00:20:21   consumers because um well it's great for most consumers i would say people people in rural

00:20:26   areas that have slow broadband it's gonna be terrible for them because they're going to need

00:20:31   to uh they're gonna have to stream and streaming is slow although you can if you've got satellite

00:20:36   ironically they probably need to keep their satellite dishes because they'll need their

00:20:40   satellite broadband in order to get the games but for a lot of people in urban areas this is great

00:20:45   because they can't or or it's too difficult to put up a satellite dish essentially and instead

00:20:52   they'll just have it on an app on their tv so that would be pretty cool so anyway apple um as you and

00:20:59   i've talked about here before i think the big story is i think apple is really interested in

00:21:03   doing live sports as a way to drive people into its services because live sports is one of those

00:21:10   things that is not um going away and is a way to get people focused on you know you you if you're

00:21:18   a fan of that sport or a fan of that team um you know you could cut the cord but you're gonna lose

00:21:24   access to that so this is a it's a powerful it's been a powerful way for like cable companies to

00:21:28   keep people on cable it's turning into a powerful way for streaming services to get people to sign

00:21:33   up for their streaming services so let's keep an eye on it whether it's this one or something else

00:21:39   i the athletic source i also wonder if that is a little bit of the nfl you know kind of talking up

00:21:46   apple to stoke the fires of of more bids from other tech companies who covet this package but

00:21:52   it'll be interesting to watch just from that standpoint that this is something that has been

00:21:56   driving satellite acquisition for the last 20 years and it's possible that apple or some other

00:22:01   tech company will turn that on its head i think it makes sense to have an appointment viewing which

00:22:10   is not just set on your own schedule you know like it's actually like you got to come and sit down

00:22:15   and use apple tv during that period of time and they can you know use that as an opportunity to

00:22:21   further you know share what they've got going on at apple tv like i saw similarly i saw a headline

00:22:27   recently that that reed hastings has said that you know netflix consider trying to get formula

00:22:33   one rights which makes a lot of sense for them because part of formula one's resurgence especially

00:22:38   in north america right now is because of the netflix documentary so it would make a lot of

00:22:43   sense for them to like you know they have that market now it's really interesting though because

00:22:48   netflix generally has been a company that i've poo-pooed their interest in live because it goes

00:22:53   against everything else netflix does so yeah including the way their technology is built

00:22:58   right because streaming events live is not the same as loading things on the cdn in various parts

00:23:02   of the world so that people can stream them at once it's like you've got to it's got to be right

00:23:07   now and the demand will will be at a hundred percent during the event people aren't tuning in

00:23:12   later they're tuning in right now and you've got to fulfill them all not that netflix can't do it

00:23:16   it's just not been a strategy for them so i think it's interesting that they mentioned at least an

00:23:20   interest in that because i do think that if you're running any sort of streaming service you should

00:23:25   be looking at whether um live sports rights make sense for you just as a way if nothing else just

00:23:31   as a way to acquire and keep subscribers so apple have secured the rights to a movie directed by

00:23:39   john wats starring brad pitt and george cluney as part of this deal the movie will get a quote

00:23:45   robust theatrical release first before it comes to apple tv plus apparently an eight figure sum was

00:23:52   left off the table to get this to happen like apple were willing to pay millions more to just

00:23:59   have it on apple tv plus um but no they're also going to be helping with a theatrical release i

00:24:05   was wondering about this about the this is an interesting thing to me especially in the case

00:24:10   of this like if you're an apple tv plus subscriber and you know it's coming to the service quickly

00:24:16   right because you assume it's probably a shorter window and then it doesn't go to pay right it

00:24:22   comes straight to apple tv plus i wonder if like what's going to happen to this kind of thinking

00:24:26   in the future right like it's it's so difficult to tell right now i'm sure you and julia will talk

00:24:31   about this stuff a lot over the next couple of months but like just this idea of like shortening

00:24:35   windows and stuff like that like how many how much of a business is there going to be in the cinema

00:24:40   no i know like this weekend has been interesting venom's done really well in the us uh james bond's

00:24:46   done really well everywhere outside of the us also in the us but really good in the uk and stuff like

00:24:50   that so but it's so tricky to tell the the cinema business still yeah it's i think there's this is

00:24:59   just the big question is how our movie audience is going to become coming back how is that different

00:25:05   and let's not forget that on top of that is just the idea that um we were already experiencing a

00:25:13   transition so all these companies are balancing the money that they really want to get out of the

00:25:20   theater which is this really nice revenue stream they don't want to delete because they already are

00:25:24   getting kind of like the post theater money and they get the theater money so even though you're

00:25:29   streaming service is a high priority for you and you do want to maximize that and that's the future

00:25:33   of your business you also don't want to turn off the tap that's flowing all that money from the

00:25:37   theater in but at the same time you know people are more interested in streaming consumers are

00:25:44   uh you know kovid has to have at least knocked off enthusiasm in theaters by some it's all

00:25:51   i i'm fascinated by where this is going and kovid is just like another factor in this transition

00:25:57   because i think a lot of these movies i think the truth is a lot of these movies aren't going to do

00:26:02   that well in theaters because um they are not some of them are like big name big budget but i think

00:26:09   we may be headed for a place where um the only movies that really make sense in theaters at a

00:26:15   large scale are the big blockbusters and that everything else that was previously sort of like

00:26:20   struggling to find an audience the answer is those are going to be on streaming primarily and they

00:26:25   will find an audience there and that was already starting to happen before kovid so we'll just have

00:26:29   to see how it comes back and and how it changes i think the the the easy answer is that that window

00:26:35   between theater and streaming is going to shrink dramatically and that a lot of stuff that

00:26:40   previously might have shown up as a rental on itunes and amazon and stuff like that will instead

00:26:45   go straight to a streaming service because that that's the kind of money that they're willing to

00:26:50   forego in order to bolster their streaming services but we'll see so this is another movie of a-list

00:26:56   actors right coming to apple tv plus and when i was looking i was doing a bit of digging around

00:27:02   today following some links for some articles and stuff and just grabbed a selection of the movies

00:27:06   that apple has coming to the service i just wanted to read this list real quick because it's kind of

00:27:12   i think it's kind of astounding so they have emancipation starring will smith killers of the

00:27:16   flower moon of leonardo dicaprio and robert de niro spirited with will fowl ryan winnolds and

00:27:21   octavia spencer raimond and ray starring ewan mcgregor and ethan hawk bride with scarlet

00:27:26   johanson ghosted with chris evans and scarlet johanson kitbag with Joaquin phoenix snowblind

00:27:32   of jake gillenhole and sharper with julianne moore let's go to the apple film festival huh they're

00:27:36   all in on those movies we can all thank tom hanks at the steve jobs theater little film festival

00:27:43   there i guess so this episode is brought to you by fitbod the fitness app that provides a personalized

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00:29:46   continued support of this show and relay fm so i want to go through some rumors with you jason some

00:29:52   some info coming in from our friends at mac rumors and nine to five mac as as we do according to

00:29:59   ming chi kuo apple has abandoned a plan to release an oled ipad air in 2022 this was something that

00:30:07   apparently they were considering over concerns around quality of the panel and the costs

00:30:13   also it has been reported that the ipad pro the 11 inch ipad pro is going to get mini led in 2022

00:30:21   quo suggests that another reason apple have cancelled the oled plan for the ipad air

00:30:26   would be as it could have been detrimental to sales of the ipad pro which was when i first

00:30:32   saw the oled rumor i was very confused because it was like hang on a second which is best

00:30:38   mini led or oled right and like how would they argue or make the case for certain screens being

00:30:46   having different technology and better like oled's better in some ways mini led is better in some

00:30:52   ways and i feel like it would have been really confusing so if anything i'm actually pretty

00:30:56   happy that they're they're going to continue on the mini led train for a while that oled ipad air i

00:31:02   think would have been pretty hard right yeah i i i mean i don't know that's a large oled screen right

00:31:08   i mean it would have been great like but it would have been weird in the lineup i think would be the

00:31:12   would maybe be a bit of a problem interesting for a mid-range product right to have that to have the

00:31:18   oled on the mid-range product it sounds like this was like their idea of what they were going to try

00:31:24   to do and it didn't work like i i and and that they decided let's not do this which makes sense

00:31:30   to me because i feel like does the ipad air really need that kind of a screen like don't you want to

00:31:38   keep it differentiated from the ipad pro i i don't i don't know i it makes me wonder if there's a

00:31:45   bigger story here that they were down the path of investigating oled for the ipad and they ended up

00:31:50   with mini led and the oled stuff kept kicking around and they're like well maybe we could put

00:31:55   it in the air and then they finally just said no let's forget it let's let's kill it i wonder if

00:31:59   that's really the story of of what happened here i think that makes a lot of sense right that like

00:32:05   before they landed on mini led for the ipad pro they were looking at oled first because like my

00:32:12   understanding of this stuff maybe you can correct me if i'm wrong is that technically oled tends to

00:32:17   be a better panel because you can actually get true blacks which you don't get with mini led

00:32:24   it's better much better but you can still get like that blooming and stuff which i know was a thing

00:32:29   that people were talking about a lot when the mini led ipad came around but like there's there's kind

00:32:34   of like i don't know pros and cons to each system it would have just been very strange i think to

00:32:39   have different ones going on i'm very excited about the 11-inch ipad pro getting the mini led

00:32:46   screen because i think i'm kind of done with the big ipad like the big big ipad pro i don't imagine

00:32:52   that being a product that i'm interested in anymore but i still like the idea of an 11-inch

00:32:58   ipad pro for work stuff and traveling and stuff like that but the 12.9 i think is bigger than i

00:33:06   want now and i have been very jealous of everybody including you with that mini led screen and the

00:33:11   one that i see at home because my wife has one and it looks so good you know federico will always

00:33:16   send us these pictures like he did when he did his original review he was doing this with the ipad

00:33:20   mini as well where he takes pictures of the screens with the lights off and you see the

00:33:24   differences of the yellow black you know and i'm like oh man it's a good example of how to get

00:33:31   across even if you're not on a high dynamic range screen that there's a big difference that you end

00:33:37   up with these really black blacks versus these very kind of gray blue muddy yeah it's uh yeah i

00:33:45   love it in the big ipad which i've got which is great and it looks great it's it's really

00:33:51   incredible technology and so i have the feeling like apple's really saying at this point and we

00:33:57   know that they're working on micro led right isn't that isn't that right i think so i believe so so

00:34:04   it seems like apple feels like at least right now improving your localized backlighting in order to

00:34:13   get dynamic range boost is a technology that they are happier with than oled and that isn't

00:34:21   just about oled performance it's also about oled pricing on larger displays because obviously

00:34:27   they've got oled in phones and watches so i think it's just it's really interesting to see

00:34:34   get a little bit of a glimpse into apple's kind of uh priority priority and prioritization of

00:34:42   display technologies and how they want to integrate them into their products because uh mini led is

00:34:48   apparently also coming to the next thing i'm going to talk about which is the macbook pro

00:34:52   uh mark garman has said that the macbook pro is still going to arrive within the next month

00:34:58   is what he is expecting so he can in his power on newsletter his power on time of mark

00:35:05   so the the m1x power mac powered macbook pro is expected to arrive uh this month with other

00:35:13   m1x products still expected uh possibly this year with the mac mini being the the most likely

00:35:20   candidate just as a refresher there will be two versions of the m1x uh is being reported by mark

00:35:26   garman both feature 10 cores eight high performance to efficiency and the difference being one has a

00:35:31   16 core gpu the other has a 32 core gpu mark says that apple is still uh working on a higher

00:35:38   performance chip for a mac pro as well so i still want to see this product i remain very excited

00:35:46   about this macbook pro and i am very pleased to hear that it's still going to be a thing

00:35:51   uh very soon maybe within the next couple of weeks yeah it's um i think imminent right the

00:35:58   only question is how are they going to release this how are they going to do it can't wait to

00:36:02   see the m1x i did a story a while ago somebody kindly in the six colors slack for members they

00:36:10   kindly re-linked to the story that basically was my chip i'll find it we'll put a link in the show

00:36:18   notes it was my chip prognostications based on trends current processor trends and it would be

00:36:27   about that which is you know you're looking at a chip that is going to be scoring in multi-core

00:36:32   way way way faster than the fastest macbook pro today right the fastest macbook pro today the 16

00:36:37   inch you know it's got a geekbench number in the seven thousands maybe and i would imagine that

00:36:45   this thing will be in the 12 thousands so you know we're we're talking 50 percent faster uh 75

00:36:55   faster like it will be my prediction is uh the m1x would be a lot faster than uh than what we've got

00:37:03   in those intel high-end systems so very exciting yeah i'm pretty pumped the thing is for me though

00:37:09   all of this sounds great i'm really into it just oh man i love the thought of a new display sounds

00:37:15   awesome but i want apple to also who doesn't release their own display because i use my macbook

00:37:24   pro mostly in docked mode right clam clam show mode i plug my macbook pro into an lg display

00:37:32   and the experience is not that great like every day when i plug it in i have to do some dance of

00:37:38   plugging and unplugging the monitor to get it to actually turn on properly so i would love apple

00:37:43   to release their own display again which i know is heavily rumored that they're working on but i want

00:37:48   them to do that at the same time as these new macbook pros so i can get a better experience

00:37:53   out of using my macbook pro the way that i want to use it and it would also be super cool if they

00:37:58   made it mini led as well so i would also get the full experience that i would otherwise be getting

00:38:05   when my macbook would be open even when it's closed wouldn't that be nice we're all waiting

00:38:09   for it but i i've reached the point with the external display where it's like i don't want

00:38:14   to predict it anymore because it's like it makes so much sense and yet they won't do it

00:38:18   so laptops would be a great time to introduce it wouldn't it or when they do the mac mini but

00:38:25   either or but like please just anytime would be good just tomorrow would be good because i would

00:38:30   still want it we'll take it any day laptop that's right has somebody created is is apple selling a

00:38:36   lower cost standalone display.com don't register that domain people but you can it could be any

00:38:41   day is today the day probably not but maybe someday so now that we know when the watch

00:38:46   is shipping because that could have been held for some kind of event right saying like oh remember

00:38:51   the apple watch it's coming at this point the only other things left as well as the uh macbook pro i

00:38:56   guess it's like an airpods 3 and a date for macos monterey so i don't know that the i'm kind of like

00:39:02   starting to lose faith on like a standalone event now i feel like the products are slimming down

00:39:07   but i still want it i want an event these laptops feel so cool i want them to to roll out the red

00:39:13   carpet for them but we'll find out we will there were some updates to i work last week oh we're

00:39:19   there i saw the headlines go by and saw it happened and then was kind of like i don't care

00:39:25   about this but then you you wrote an article and you told me some of the stuff that's in especially

00:39:32   keynote which is actually kind of cool right yeah i think the keynote stuff for me the keynote stuff

00:39:39   is is the best stuff and i think apple knows that it's the best stuff so they allow you now

00:39:43   in keynote to create an object in the slide that is a live video view of you through a camera or

00:39:51   of a screen capture of an ios device so you would get to a page in the presentation and then your

00:39:57   camera would turn is that how it works yeah exactly and it's a it's an object on the slide

00:40:04   so you can do a move transition you can have it appear when you build a slide it can be layered

00:40:11   over or under other objects in the slide you can imagine a presentation where you are over here in

00:40:19   a little box and then you go to the next slide and it's just you and and this is great for like

00:40:23   a video presentation to a to like a zoom or whatever kind of thing right the idea that

00:40:29   keynote can let you build that also you can record your keynote so you can use this to record

00:40:33   a slideshow that integrates your video into it i just think it's really smart and then on top of

00:40:38   that device capture so if you are demoing for example something you need to do on your iphone

00:40:42   or ipad you can actually bring up a slide that has a live view of an iphone that you then have

00:40:47   your iphone there and you tap around and everybody sees it in the slide and then when you tap away

00:40:53   that slide goes away and the capture goes away so that's actually quite cool i don't know what i

00:41:01   would use it for but i'm happy that i know that it exists now because then i could right and a lot of

00:41:07   these things i mean it's kind of funny really because you know what this stuff is sounds really

00:41:11   great for remote learning which is definitely still happening but it's happening less it of

00:41:18   course you know kind of reminds me of shareplay right like these things are super great when all

00:41:23   of school is remote and it feels like at least in a lot of parts of the world that's not so much of

00:41:29   a going concern whether it should or shouldn't be it just isn't happening but these things are cool

00:41:35   for whenever it might be needed again i guess yeah i mean i i'm not sure camera is seems to me to be

00:41:43   very much a remote presentation feature yeah screen capture is more i mean this is another one

00:41:49   of these things where apple's like all right well everybody's doing screen capture everybody's doing

00:41:53   you know shared screen presentations now because of covid what could we what could we do and so now

00:41:59   we're getting them a year later and are they you know what's the validity of them now i think

00:42:04   there's people are going to be doing remote presentations forever because it's a way that

00:42:08   we can that's true so that's very true yeah i was thinking of the learning thing but yeah

00:42:12   presentations with with remote working this is kind of perfect for this uh which is you know

00:42:18   this always existed but now is existing on different levels a lot more frequently like

00:42:24   i'll just say like when i say like i don't care about these it's just like i don't really think

00:42:28   about the new features for these products and i use all three of them like a lot i use numbers

00:42:34   pages and keynote like i use them um for all kinds of stuff like pretty much every day but i'm i

00:42:41   consider myself a very basic user of them keynote is probably the one i use the least because i

00:42:46   don't do a lot of presentations but i do use pages and numbers a lot so just i like the way to look

00:42:51   they're very and i find them very simple and their simplicity is why i don't necessarily seek out

00:42:56   features from them you know what i mean i can't really pay attention to the release notes because

00:43:02   i just want to do what i know how to do with them and keep it at that but it's cool that they've

00:43:05   added them this is going to be great for people who need them and i'm sure these keynote features

00:43:09   i'll find something to do with them at some point in the future i i think about like i give

00:43:13   presentations from time to time to you know user groups and those used to be in person but now

00:43:19   they're mostly online and this is great because i i had actually stopped giving slides because i

00:43:27   felt like my slides didn't didn't say that much and i should just do video presentation now i

00:43:33   think about this and i think oh now it would be easy for me to integrate my video when i want

00:43:38   and put slides in when i want and even mix and match and i like that idea so i i think i think

00:43:44   it's very very cool idea um the the uh numbers update by the way is pivot tables which is a

00:43:52   feature that's been excel in excel for a million years i don't know what they are but i know people

00:43:57   really like them yeah it's like a summary view of a large data set that's in there and and you have

00:44:02   some abilities to filter it and it's like if you're processing large amounts of data in numbers

00:44:07   um which are people i guess people are i always hear from people who are like yes i use i work

00:44:12   i was like okay great like i don't and pages also has some new features i don't use pages either i

00:44:18   use numbers for like just keeping track of some stuff but the main reason that i use numbers is

00:44:23   because i find it so easy to create graphs right otherwise i use google sheets like that's i tend

00:44:32   to use google sheets the most but i can't really ever get google sheets to work the way i want to

00:44:37   with creating graphs but numbers like graphs and charts are so easy to make so that's what i use

00:44:42   numbers for for that kind of stuff and i know you use numbers yeah i use numbers for charting yeah

00:44:48   i never really think about using it for like giant spreadsheets but i know you know because i i have

00:44:54   microsoft office so i just use excel i'm comfortable in excel but i i get that people don't i think i

00:44:58   use google sheets for big stuff because all my big stuff tends to need to be shared with someone

00:45:03   i i also use google sheets a lot but the fact is that apple made this office suite that's

00:45:08   essentially you know if not free essentially free and um so people use it and it's great that apple

00:45:14   is continuing to update it like i i love that they keep making an effort with these products

00:45:19   and i love keynote and i rely on numbers for my charts so i am also appreciative that apple

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00:47:11   support of this show and relay fm now around this time of year kind of like the full-time new device

00:47:17   time that kind of stuff we do tend to get a lot more ask upgrade questions than we would other

00:47:22   times of the year oh yeah thank you there's some there's a lot of lasers a backlog of lasers

00:47:28   and i realized today when i was going through the document that we had a huge backlog and some of

00:47:34   these questions would otherwise not have gotten answered because they may have gotten out of date

00:47:38   in a few weeks time so today we're going to be doing an extended ask upgrade segment two maybe

00:47:45   three full segments of ask upgrade that we would normally do so strap in the first question comes

00:47:51   from s u who asks i'm curious to know now that both of you have used the iphone 13 pro as well

00:47:57   as ipad pro and ipad mini is 120 hertz promotion more important or noticeable on the ipad or the

00:48:04   iphone and i'm intrigued for you because you seem kind of down on uh promotion on the iphone i'm not

00:48:12   that i see why actually why are you pitting us against each other again so soon i'm not down on

00:48:17   it i just don't think it's as as important to me as other things that i like about the cheaper

00:48:23   iphone 13 and so i i'm you know i don't think it's i remember you being a hater a big hater of

00:48:29   promotion and saying that it was useless and you don't you're thinking of stephen hackett

00:48:34   i so uh which now that i've used all of these things is it more noticeable and important on ipad

00:48:42   or iphone i say ipad for two reasons uh one of which is i feel it's more noticeable on ipad i just

00:48:49   do and because there's more dots moving around at 120 and it's also more important because of the

00:48:55   apple pencil because it allows the refresh rate to really crank up and the apple pencil to see more

00:48:59   real and of course the iphone doesn't support the apple pencil so um that's what i have to say but

00:49:05   again it's a nice feature on the phone too it's nice right mike it's nice it's very nice i think

00:49:12   it's more noticeable on the iphone than the ipad to a significant degree i've been wondering about

00:49:18   this i've been thinking a lot about so i have some friends contact me too and they're like

00:49:22   some agree with you and some agree with me about where it's more noticeable and i'm wondering like

00:49:27   if it's a eyesight difference i don't think so because i noticed it on the ipad right and i do

00:49:33   know that it's there it's not like i don't on the ipad like i don't and it's not like i don't notice

00:49:37   it i don't think it's an eyesight difference i think it is literally and i said this last week

00:49:42   but i'm going to say it again i think it's literally how you use your iphone difference

00:49:47   and i notice it everywhere on my iphone in ways i don't notice it on my ipad like opening a folder

00:49:53   of apps yeah like opening the lock screen feels like different i don't know what i don't know

00:50:00   i i wish someone could tell us why people see it differently but like for example like my wife

00:50:06   adena she doesn't even notice it all right we've gone through it i i notice it i just don't think

00:50:13   that there there is enough reason especially somebody coming from the mini where i have no

00:50:18   option i'm gonna have to get a bigger heavier phone in order to get the increased refresh rate

00:50:23   i notice the increased refresh rate it is not remotely important enough to me to spend more

00:50:30   money and get a bigger phone for it it's nice i i keep saying it's nice and nice doesn't mean i

00:50:35   don't notice it nice means i just don't i'm not saying it's that important you don't notice it

00:50:39   i'm like i think that there is like a spectrum between people like i know people that don't see

00:50:44   it and then i like really see it on the iphone and you see it but don't see it as but don't care

00:50:50   it's like a different equation but for me it's like oh my iphone's incredible now and it's so

00:50:56   strange i will say like we've asked this question i do i definitely notice that the ipad mini doesn't

00:51:04   have it even in like when compared to my ipad but with my ipad pro i feel like i don't see it as

00:51:11   prominently as i do on my iphone i don't know how this can be answered but i think that there is just

00:51:18   a people are different i guess and they see things differently and they prioritize things differently

00:51:25   for themselves so as you we have no real answer for your question because we can't we we cannot

00:51:31   give any kind of agreement and i also feel like no the answer is clearly that it's it's more

00:51:36   important on the ipad because of the apple pencil and it's no no because because it doesn't it's not

00:51:42   120 hertz on the apple pencil anyway and app devices that um don't do promotions still have high

00:51:51   latency for the screen they use they use the 120 hertz to um be able to keep a closer track on

00:52:00   and even fake it on the head of the pencil so it looks like your pencil sketch is moving exactly

00:52:07   with your motions it's like one of the tricks that they do even though they're not registering

00:52:11   at that refresh rate all right it's it's fine see thanks as you see what you did

00:52:16   i picked the question i knew it was going to do this uh cj asks this was a theory i shared

00:52:23   privately with some friends too and i want to see what you think about this do you think that the

00:52:28   color names of midnight and starlight could have come from the rumored astrophotography mode for

00:52:34   the iphone 13 that didn't materialize this year no you just think it was going to be this way anyway

00:52:40   yes space they have space gray i mean this this was why i didn't this is why i didn't publicly

00:52:45   share this because it's like well there is a precedent for like space and color being a thing

00:52:50   for apple but it is interesting that the year they just they introduced these two new names

00:52:55   was a year that they were expected to have some new astrophotography mode which i don't really

00:52:59   know why that is an important feature to add to the camera anyway um like i still suck in mkbhd

00:53:07   his view review i think for the iphone 13 pro like he referenced you know the iphone still doesn't

00:53:12   have an astrophotography mode but i can still see the stars when i use night mode and it made

00:53:17   me wonder like why do why do you need an astrophotography mode anyway like i don't know if

00:53:25   i get it you're a space guy i don't i don't know i mean it would just be a different way of tuning

00:53:30   the dark the you know night mode in order to focus on um the stuff that's in the sky and make sure

00:53:37   that it comes out better and you know longer i mean it would just be a a tuned mode just for that

00:53:43   i don't know why you would need that but yeah i don't i don't know because google has it maybe

00:53:48   the answer i don't know i don't know if samsung have it but i know google do right so like i don't

00:53:52   know if this is like a thing that's in a lot of phones but i don't particularly feel like i need

00:53:56   it in my iphone maybe i just don't care about space enough maybe steven asked jason why did you

00:54:02   upgrade to the iphone 13 mini we covered that we ended up covering this in in upgrade plus last

00:54:07   week which uh it's because we forgot but the short version of it is that i one i want to support the

00:54:15   iphone mini and i know that it's not going to make any difference for next year but like all the

00:54:20   rumors are that it's going away so i want to spend money on it because i want to have uh i want it to

00:54:26   be a sale and i also want to spend money on it because i know that there probably won't be one

00:54:31   next year which means that i want the latest and greatest mini in order for it to fit uh in my hand

00:54:38   and be useful even if i have to soldier on without an iphone 14 something next year because they

00:54:45   aren't going to make one this size and so i kind of just want to have as much runway for the iphone

00:54:51   13 mini as possible that's basically the reason for it if uh if steven's searching for a reason

00:54:56   to upgrade over the iphone 12 mini you know again year-to-year upgrades are pretty small so there's

00:55:04   not a great reason to do that battery the battery life is going to be better sure and then you know

00:55:10   the camera's a little bit better and all that all that is true um but you know my thinking is much

00:55:15   more about the fact that there's not going to be one next year and so i want this now if you want

00:55:20   if you've got a honestly if you really love the mini and you've got a 12 mini your strategy could

00:55:25   be wait till next year see what they announce and if you are confirmed that you really just want to

00:55:32   stick with the mini maybe they'll cut the price on the iphone 13 mini and you can buy it next year

00:55:36   for a reduced price um but that's that's sort of my thinking is i just i love the mini size and i

00:55:43   want to have one that is a mind to have and to hold uh even richer and poorer for larger

00:55:50   and larger and larger phones i can avoid those and just stick with my little buddy i actually have a

00:55:58   related question which i think could be uh interesting because we're talking about like maybe

00:56:04   it going away she wants from john and john asks do you think there will be a third gen iphone se and

00:56:10   what form factor do you think it will have um well yeah i think that there will be and i think that

00:56:17   it'll be the iphone 13 mini form factor in two years i think that's what it'll be that's this is

00:56:22   what i wanted to ask this because i know you've mentioned that and i wanted to see if that stays

00:56:26   the same for you so you think that the size kind of the physical size of the iphone 13 mini the

00:56:33   mini sized phone could be the future of the se phone because right now it's the iphone 8 right

00:56:41   it's basically the iphone se uh yeah so you think it could become the iphone mini in the future

00:56:48   i it's i i realize that this is wish casting but um that's my hope is that the that the mini will

00:56:54   write again in some form sometime somewhere and that's my best guess if they did do that

00:57:01   would you go to the se do you think uh let's see what my mood is probably not i i'm probably

00:57:07   resigned to the fact that if apple makes a dramatically better phone um which a two years

00:57:15   from now model will be dramatically better undoubtedly that at some point i'm just gonna

00:57:19   have to give up but um i'm gonna prolong it as long as i can and we'll see we'll see it's possible

00:57:28   that they've led me off the beaten track and now i'm stuck with these small phones because i like

00:57:33   them so much or it's possible that i'll i'll look over to the other side of the fence and realize

00:57:37   the grass is greener and refreshed more quickly and jump over there but i'm not there this year

00:57:42   yeah i'm not convinced that se means small phone because i'm not either but sometimes but it can be

00:57:53   maybe like because they moved to the eight when they brought like the eight sides and they know

00:57:58   where they were coming out with the mini right so there was always going to be a small phone in the

00:58:03   lineup because the previous se was the small phone right then the se got bigger when they introduced

00:58:09   a mini phone so if the mini is going to go away maybe the se becomes the small phone again right

00:58:16   which would lend to this discussion this potential because maybe it's like we always want to have a

00:58:22   small phone but we'll just decide where it lands and how much we charge for it so maybe the next

00:58:28   se as you say could be in that mini form factor so at least that option is there for people that

00:58:34   don't care about anything other than size yeah i think the question is what's apple's long-term

00:58:40   kind of marketing project in terms of the old phones because apple do you need an se at all

00:58:48   when you've got old phones and the answer is no unless there's something about an older phone

00:58:54   model that you want to take off the price list that makes it special and not serving the need

00:59:00   of an old phone and that's the one shot that the mini size has is that they look at their line of

00:59:08   iphone 15s and they say well we can't really keep or the 16s we can't really keep the 13 mini around

00:59:16   anymore and we've got other phones that are cheap but if we get rid of this one we're losing that

00:59:23   category entirely maybe we need to keep it around but we gotta upgrade the guts of it so we'll call

00:59:29   the se that would be the thought process right because i think that's really what the iphone se

00:59:33   truly is is a model type that they want to keep around for whatever reason because otherwise it's

00:59:40   not available anymore but they can't keep the old model around any longer so they have to upgrade it

00:59:45   so they give it this not a name iphone se in order to do a revised version of it that they can keep

00:59:52   in the price list and that might be i'm not convinced that it's size i'm also not convinced

00:59:58   that it's price it may really just be a placeholder for a device we want to keep selling but we can't

01:00:06   sell that one anymore you know when we're talking when you're talking about that i was thinking about

01:00:10   like you know maybe one of the things they decided they wanted to keep around was a phone that has

01:00:15   touch id on it right for people right and it just made me think over the last uh few days i've been

01:00:22   noticing that i've been leaving my thumb on the lock button of my iphone to unlock it because i've

01:00:30   been getting used to the ipad yeah so i've been unlocking my phone with the button and leaving my

01:00:37   thumb on the button even though the phone's now unlocked because there's something in my brain

01:00:41   that's telling me that that's how i unlock my phone because that's how i look my ipad my brain's

01:00:47   silly very moldable uh talking about the ipad mini this question comes from carl how do your

01:00:54   use cases for the ipad mini differ from those of your iphone if both are available to you in a given

01:01:00   situation what would make you pick up one over the other this is a secondary sub question that i'll

01:01:08   ask of you is are you still actually using the ipad mini i am okay and it has already survived

01:01:15   longer than the last ipad mini when i tried to integrate it okay right because i want i got an

01:01:19   ipad mini last time and i was like i'm gonna i'm gonna get it out of the box after i'd done the

01:01:24   review i was like oh i hear all these people on podcasts i listen to talking about using the ipad

01:01:27   mini as a reader i'm gonna get out of the box i lasted no time at all and i'm like this sucks

01:01:32   and it was gone and that has not happened this time um i'm forcing myself to do it because

01:01:38   i write about and talk about this stuff right so i'm forcing myself to use it in part to have that

01:01:45   experience that's one of the great benefits of getting a review unit especially beyond the review

01:01:50   is that i also get to then spend some extended time with it afterward and keep using it and have

01:01:55   that personal experience so yes in fact this morning i decided i was going to read um my

01:02:04   stuff that i read in the morning in bed while i'm drinking tea and having breakfast with the mini

01:02:10   instead of my big ipad and so it was mini in vertical orientation and netnewswire instead of

01:02:17   having the little sidebar the sidebar was closed so that i could have a good reading area and i

01:02:22   was just sort of swiping through the items because you can also do that um and so it was a little bit

01:02:27   different and i uh the other day i was outside it was a nice really warm day and i took a drink out

01:02:34   to to our hammock in the backyard and i sat in the hammock with the ipad mini wow and i read and uh

01:02:40   it's delightful and and and so my answer for carl would be i because i prefer the ipad in general

01:02:51   i would choose the ipad over the iphone if both are available to me every time

01:02:58   mostly because if both are available to me i'm at home and why not use the nice big screen even of

01:03:09   the mini compared to the especially the iphone mini but even the ipad even the pro max the screen is

01:03:16   not as not nearly as big as the ipad mini so if i'm in a scenario where i'm at home and i have a

01:03:21   ipad available to me i'm going to choose the ipad over the iphone that's just me we're not massively

01:03:26   different here really but oh i was i had a baseball game on and picture in picture while

01:03:30   i was reading in the hammock by the way that's you could do that on an iphone but you don't

01:03:36   don't do that it's much nicer with the i mean this is like the thing for me more than anything

01:03:42   i think is ipad os because i have flexibility with my app experiences that i don't have on my iphone

01:03:51   so like whilst you know split-screen multitasking and slide over is a much more cramped experience

01:03:57   on the mini it's possible on the mini right which is i can't do any of these things on my iphone

01:04:03   so if like i'm looking at my like i'm looking at some email or whatever and i want to bring up my

01:04:08   calendar i can just do that right i can just bring up my calendar and now i have them both on screen

01:04:14   together i'm using my iphone i'm going backwards and forwards backwards and forwards from app to

01:04:18   app and so like i just have more available to me even if it's tiny it's still there i can still see

01:04:26   it um it's better for video like if i'm watching video in general like has louder speakers it has

01:04:31   a bigger screen right like i just i know the quality of the screen isn't as good right like

01:04:36   i get that but that's not really what if i'm watching a video on a small device i'm not looking

01:04:43   for the best quality right like i bigger is better rather than like black levels you think it's not

01:04:51   you know sorry martin scorsese i guess i don't know uh screens as well martin scorsese doesn't

01:04:56   want you watching his movies on your phone either that's true and to be honest i don't i would

01:05:01   prefer not to watch a martin scorsese movie on my phone right like you know like marty i agree but

01:05:07   sometimes what am i going to do anyway uh the screen provides a better reading experience in

01:05:14   general right more information on the page and you benefit from applications being laid out differently

01:05:22   on ipad than on a phone so the information density is very different the way that things are laid out

01:05:30   is very different so like i just think for basically pretty much anything similar to you that

01:05:35   i would want to do when i'm at home the ipad mini is a better option than my phone like it's for

01:05:42   give me something and it's better right like it's better for messaging it's better for social media

01:05:47   or you know it's better for video like it's just it's for me it's just always a better experience

01:05:52   and i've always felt that way about the ipad but the ipad mini specifically benefits from its

01:05:58   portability and ease of use over any of the other ipad models because it's so easy to hold and get

01:06:05   like just to take advantage of so it's fantastic yeah i agree i'm i'm jason i love my ipad mini so

01:06:12   much i love it so much i i really i really love my iphone my ipad mini that is my favorite product

01:06:20   that apple's released this year so if i think about us as as not normal people which is probably

01:06:26   how i should think about us always weird people we're even abnormal within an abnormal group

01:06:32   yeah right so my point is no reasonable person sorry i'm one of you if you feel offended by this

01:06:41   i'm also insulting myself i guess no reasonable person is going to say well what i do is i have

01:06:46   my ipad pro for certain tasks and my ipad mini for certain tasks and my laptop for certain tests and

01:06:50   my desktop computer right your regular person is going to have to choose so me having the different

01:06:57   size ipads to choose from is is not a common i would say use case but i will say this if you're

01:07:03   one of those people and i've noticed some people popping out of the woodwork who who i i've

01:07:08   identified as like ah you're this person like stephen hackett is this person if you're one of

01:07:12   these people who's like i want to use the ipad and i like the ipad but i don't like it that much right

01:07:19   like if i want to do all this other stuff that the ipad can do you know i'm over here editing

01:07:25   podcasts on it but like some people are just like yeah i'll use my mac for that i don't want to i

01:07:30   don't want to do that for the ipad i like the ipad but i don't use it and i think i actually have a

01:07:34   theory and i this comes from observing my mother um where she was she had netflix for a while and

01:07:40   she kept talking about how she wasn't using it enough and so then she canceled it and it's it's

01:07:46   a little bit like the new yorker issue where people um cancel the new yorker not because they

01:07:50   don't like what they read in it but because they don't read all of it and the issues pile up and so

01:07:54   then they cancel it because they don't like the burden it's like a burden of i'm sure there's a

01:07:58   business school term for it that somebody wrote a book and made a billion dollars uh selling their

01:08:02   book about it it's the burden of unused portions of your subscription offering or your your device

01:08:10   or whatever it is it's the burden of unused portions and i've noticed that a lot of people

01:08:16   feel that way about the ipad that a lot of people are like yeah i like the ipad but i like it for

01:08:22   like this really simple stuff and i know you can edit podcasts with it and i know that you can do

01:08:28   shortcuts and i know you can do spreadsheets and but i all i really want to do is like read on it

01:08:34   and they and it like makes the ipad feel worse because they're not using it to its fullest

01:08:41   i would argue that that's irrational but i also understand humans are irrational so what i find

01:08:48   with the ipad mini is it almost gives those people license to like an ipad without it having to be

01:08:56   a computer replacement right it gives them a little bit more freedom to be like this is a

01:09:02   great little reading device and i'm never going to do all those productivity things that federico

01:09:06   writes about on the ipad pro with this thing even though you could i'm not going to and it's okay

01:09:12   because it's just a little ipad mini and i use it for reading and isn't it nice and i think that's

01:09:17   great because yes to all of that like if you're not somebody who is like super sold on the ipad

01:09:22   lifestyle but does has tried an ipad and it's like yeah i like it it's nice but i i'm never going to

01:09:26   use it for all the things that it can be used for so you know what is it what good is it to me here's

01:09:32   your answer which is i think for most people having an ipad mini that you could just use in

01:09:38   the morning or wherever your wind down time is to read a book or look at your rss feeds or check

01:09:46   that newspaper app or scroll through doom scroll through twitter if you want to whatever it can do

01:09:52   all of those things and is super light and nice and easy to hold and pleasant to look at and that

01:09:59   folio case is really great on it and i like i can't say a bad thing about it it will also it

01:10:05   will do everything that the pro ipad users want it to do it actually does all those things too

01:10:12   but you don't have to worry about it like don't feel bad about it just uh read your books and read

01:10:17   your newspapers and and be happy and that like that's why i think it really hits the sweet spot

01:10:22   for all these people who maybe feel like they're not proper ipad users in a way and that they're

01:10:28   wasting the ipad's potential i feel like the ipad mini maybe just takes the burden off a little bit

01:10:33   anyway that's my theory i love it this is the i love that that that whole line this is the best

01:10:38   content consumption ipad yeah and you should like feel no guilt about it right feel no guilt you

01:10:44   could do stuff if you want you can answer your emails like you can have it i would actually say

01:10:49   that one of my issues with it and actually one of the reasons why i think focus mode is such a good

01:10:53   idea on the ipad mini is the reason i use like a kindle is because i don't get push notifications

01:10:59   i can't switch over to twitter all i have to do is read the one problem with the ipad mini is the ipad

01:11:04   is so capable that you can do all this other stuff with it and i would actually recommend that if you

01:11:11   use one of these things resist temptation when possible turn off notifications go into a focus

01:11:17   mode if you need to don't install all the apps that you normally do and and make it a simpler

01:11:22   device because it can be as complex as you want it to be it can be as complex as an ipad pro or your

01:11:27   phone it doesn't have to be and i think maybe it's better if it's not this episode is brought to you

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01:13:13   and all every layer of m should we do more #askupgrade questions there you go i just wanted

01:13:18   to give you the opportunity to get some thank you thank you know we got a second set of lasers now

01:13:22   it's just how it has to be yeah snape asked how long did it take for downstream to go from idea

01:13:28   to reality huh okay well the story starts when we did the christmas carol episode of upgrade

01:13:34   i guess when fedorico as the ghost of of the future which at some point we're going to need

01:13:40   to go back and score all of the things he predicted he suggested that that upstream

01:13:47   would become its own podcast and i have to say that planted a seed with me i'm like will it

01:13:55   might it and at the time it didn't make sense i was resistant of it to be to be fair i didn't want

01:14:01   to do that um yeah i like i like upstream as part of this show and you'd floated it with me a couple

01:14:08   of times and we'd spoken about it a few times because people had always mentioned it or asked

01:14:11   for it or suggested it or whatever and i was very much that i wanted to keep it as part of upgrade

01:14:18   right and and it did make sense so a couple of things happened one is that i stopped doing tv

01:14:24   talk machine because tim goodman retired from tv criticism got a development deal to write in

01:14:29   scripts maybe he'll make a tv show someday if they buy his scripts we'll see um but that took me it

01:14:37   meant that i wasn't talking about it weekly with tim and we talk about it some um but i felt like

01:14:43   there was potential for something else and to fill that that hole the the tv talk machine sized hole

01:14:49   in my heart um so i just kind of like left it out there and then um julia so a couple of things

01:14:59   happened a couple of people changed jobs who were people that i've been watching for a while and

01:15:04   thinking about talking you know tv on and and streaming on podcast with and um one of them was

01:15:11   julia who left she went from from vox to ign and then she went to parrot analytics and i had that

01:15:18   thought of like oh she's kind of a free agent analyst now doesn't have a podcast we had that

01:15:25   we had that guest slot where you were going to be gone and did i consider that kind of a test of

01:15:31   whether we could do a podcast about that together yes i did i absolutely thought um this would be a

01:15:38   great episode of upgrade and we would see if it was uh if it worked out maybe we would explore

01:15:42   further and i thought it went really well so then we recorded a zero episode and got some podcast

01:15:47   art and here we are um but it was i was keeping my eye on it but i was also not gonna strike and

01:15:52   then you and i talked about it too because i mean it is kind of a bummer like you're like you know

01:15:57   you would like first off you would like to be involved but the challenge is you are a very busy

01:16:01   person yes i mean i'm a busy person too but i i really do feel like i have held this slot open

01:16:06   since tvtm ended last year where i have room for another podcast project and i did the 20 max

01:16:13   project last year so it's really that slot and more so you know was filled but this year i've

01:16:18   been thinking like i have room for this particular project if it ever works out and so you and i

01:16:25   talked about it and you know i'm still hoping that you can be involved with downstream in some way

01:16:31   whether it's replacing me sometimes or guesting or whatever i i would like to keep you involved

01:16:37   but being having you involved in like every episode is not practical for you and it doesn't

01:16:41   really make sense you you you you when you had the like you like were confident on the idea you

01:16:48   brought it to me and we spoke about it and it hurt me because i want to do it yeah like this is a

01:16:55   show that like it's a thing that i really care about especially talking to a new person who i

01:17:00   really respect and obviously jason too i love jason i'm not a new person not a new person just

01:17:06   oh i was gonna say an old person i respect but i don't mean that either i do respect you straighten

01:17:12   up sunny but it was i made a promise to myself that i wasn't going to start new shows yeah i

01:17:19   already do too many i didn't i didn't also want to be the devil on your shoulder being like

01:17:24   another podcast mike another podcast and i didn't want to i didn't want to be that but i'm leaving

01:17:29   the door open because um i i would love for you to be involved as the show goes on even if it is

01:17:35   just sort of guesting or guest hosting um or stuff like that will you because i do know you are

01:17:40   enthusiastic about this but to make another commitment for another show um was not something

01:17:45   you should do and julia is great like i've been i've been watching her uh writing and tweeting

01:17:50   and stuff for years now and i've thought that it's all really great stuff and in and uh and i'm hoping

01:17:56   we'll have some other guests and stuff on as the show goes too because there's there's a few people

01:17:59   out there who i keep thinking are like just so smart about this stuff and i want to um this is a

01:18:04   show that i want to listen to right and so like tv talk machine which literally i revived because i

01:18:11   wanted it back and i was like tim uh they're not having to do a podcast at the hollywood reporter

01:18:17   could we bring the tv talk machine back and he's like yeah sure if you do all the work and just

01:18:22   i'll just talk and i said i can make that happen so we did it for a few years and it was great so

01:18:27   um so yeah this is that's the that's the story um it depends on how you want to uh frame it

01:18:34   but i would say it wasn't really real until i was scheduling that guest episode with mike out

01:18:41   and i thought actually this would be a really great subject and if it goes well maybe that's

01:18:46   a podcast and it did go well and it is a podcast and hopefully it will go on from here a fanatical

01:18:52   asks thoughts on the new ipad mini as a replacement for paper planners or journals

01:18:59   or even as a companion to a paper product this is the thing that i sent to you and i said mike i

01:19:05   want us to cover this one i don't know if it was already in our show doc or not but i i thought

01:19:09   i want to hear what mike says about this this is a mike question i i was very excited to because i

01:19:14   find this fascinating right like where does it something like an ipad mini does it fit in does

01:19:18   it replace does it augment is it not is it out of bounds and not the right thing at all i i and i

01:19:24   don't know because i don't i don't care about this stuff and i know you do so i want to know what you

01:19:28   think i could see this being an option for people i i think people that specifically use an ipad and

01:19:36   apple pencil for a note-taking device could find the ipad mini to be a good thing however i do

01:19:45   i am maybe a little worried or concerned some people that they see this product and they see

01:19:50   its size and they're like this is a notebook right but the dimensions of the ipad mini

01:19:56   i actually find it quite constraining for note-taking so i like a5 right this is your

01:20:04   typical notebook size that kind of size the a5 ish size because paper standards are a whole other

01:20:11   thing but the a5 ish size is approximately 148 by 210 millimeters right that's your dimensions

01:20:19   the ipad mini's screen is 116 by 176 millimeters so while that might not seem like a ton it's a

01:20:31   it's a pretty big difference so you're looking at like say the width i find is the hardest part so

01:20:39   you're looking at the ipad mini being 11.6 centimeters to an a5 notebook being 14.8 centimeters

01:20:46   so i found it for myself to be a little cramped for handwriting in portrait which is how i would

01:20:51   typically want to take notes on the device anyway so i don't know for me this would not be something

01:21:00   that i would use as a replacement for a paper journal or a planner it could be very good for

01:21:07   just general note-taking stuff you know like fire up an app like notability i'm on a meeting or a

01:21:12   call i could take notes on it and i would do i do this on my other ipads so i you know i found it to

01:21:17   be cramped but your mileage may vary there but in general i am a well i am a person who makes a paper

01:21:25   journal product it's called the theme system in case you're unaware of this it's available at

01:21:30   cortexmerch.com it's a product that me and cgb gray created together based around and it's like

01:21:35   a system and a product so like the idea of yearly themes turning that into something that you live

01:21:41   your life by and creating a journal product that can help you enforce this idea i have never wanted

01:21:47   to journal on an ipad anyway like i think that there is something important in sitting down with

01:21:53   pen and paper and writing out my thoughts that way the tactility of it feels important to me it's like

01:21:58   a daily ritual kind of thing and using an ipad using any kind of digital device even typing it

01:22:03   just doesn't feel the same and i expect i expect this is a similar feeling to people say for

01:22:10   example who prefer to read paper books to digital books right that like there's just a thing about

01:22:16   reading on the book which is better than reading on the screen for people that because it's beyond

01:22:22   the information it's you know the tactility of it and there's all sorts of other reasons for it

01:22:26   and i i don't you know i almost entirely read on ebooks now but i get it i get it i get why people

01:22:33   feel that way and honestly i get that way i get that tactility for things that that matter if that

01:22:41   makes any sense like the books that i buy are like i buy them because they're big or because they're

01:22:46   beautiful and color printed and you wanna you wanna leaf through them like i don't buy paperbacks

01:22:53   and stuff because the all the there's no there's no specialness about that that it's just words on

01:23:01   a page and at that point it might as well be words on a screen for me and i feel like if you're going

01:23:06   to go to the trouble of doing something like journaling it isn't just about the words on the

01:23:11   page right it's about more than that and and that tips it over into wanting something more and

01:23:16   different i i also there's utility that i would throw in here which is there's different kinds of

01:23:23   utility obviously but i was thinking about like if you're taking notes in a class and you really

01:23:29   prefer and you remember better taking notes longhand the utility of using the ipad is that

01:23:37   it's going to scan what you write and make it searchable and you can keep all those things

01:23:43   searchable and available to you on all your devices and syncable right there's lots of utility in doing

01:23:48   that so if your ultimate goal is to have this stuff come out of your pen but also be findable

01:23:54   and reachable as you're going through your course or future courses and you know your whole area of

01:24:00   study there's a utility to using an ipad if what you're doing is journaling and the process of it

01:24:07   is part of the utility and you're not really needing to go back and do a full text search

01:24:14   of your journaling then it you know it falls on the other side of it it's like that's why i don't

01:24:22   have a paper to-do list because i want my tasks to be available to me everywhere like i don't have

01:24:29   a paper calendar i want my calendar appointments to be available to me everywhere and different

01:24:36   people do these things in different ways like for example there are some some meetings that i'm on

01:24:41   i'll just use a pad in front of me and just write some stuff down but if it's a big meeting where i

01:24:45   know i'm going to need that information later i'll get my ipad and apple pencil and because now it's

01:24:51   it's in notes or it's in notability or whatever and it's searchable and like backed up and just

01:24:58   available to me on my iphone later on if i need to refer back to it or whatever you know i think

01:25:03   there's a there's a mode switching that's important and kate in the chat room made a good point that i

01:25:08   want to mention again too which is i don't okay i don't do this so i'm giving you a i'm giving you

01:25:15   advice about a thing i don't do but i would strongly advise that if you do use uh apple

01:25:21   pencil and an ipad to take notes that you just let it take notes as ink don't try to convert it to

01:25:29   text or anything like that because what you want to do is emulate putting it down on paper and what

01:25:35   happens in the background is the stuff that is in ink is searchable and you skip the step where it

01:25:42   it makes mistakes and turns your what you wrote into the wrong word and then you have to fix it

01:25:46   you don't want to ever break your thought process by doing that and the beauty about searchability

01:25:51   and the way apple does searchability of handwritten text and i know i've mentioned this before but

01:25:55   i'll throw it in there again all of these ocr engines what they do is they come up with a list

01:26:00   of words it might be and a percentage of what they of confidence and when you're writing and they

01:26:07   don't have to convert it if they have to convert it they have to pick one right and it might be the

01:26:10   wrong one if they don't have to convert it they index all the words it might be and when you do

01:26:16   a search you will find it uh and and so it's actually much better than you'd think to search

01:26:23   for handwritten text in a note than it is that the accuracy you get when you have it converting your

01:26:30   handwritten text to text if that makes sense yeah because it's not making it doesn't have to commit

01:26:35   to one set of words yeah exactly because you're not reading it it's just in the search index and

01:26:41   so the search index lies the search index has got well this could be um you know a bear or it could

01:26:48   be bore or it could be here or it could be fear or it could be near let's put them all in there

01:26:55   and then when you search for grizzly bear it will say well i've got this one it's grizzly and then

01:27:00   one of the things it could be is bear so it's a search result you can also make yourself laugh

01:27:06   if you've ever searched a bunch of handwritten stuff you search for a word and you find that

01:27:10   some stuff that's totally not that word that's because it was confused but uh anyway it's it's

01:27:16   good in that way and so i think that this stuff is is pretty pretty searchable and i think it's

01:27:20   pretty brilliant and even me even me mike who is not a fan of pens and paper if i were in college

01:27:29   today i think this is how i would take notes is apple pencil oh yeah written out because i think

01:27:35   that it's better for kind of brain focus and uh remembering things and thinking about things and

01:27:43   then having it all accessible later where i'm not having to rifle through a notebook somewhere love

01:27:48   it great idea all right next question comes from shah who asks do you think apple will ever release

01:27:54   an apple watch pro i mean it's a marketing question in some ways because they already make

01:28:01   high-end apple watches and they used to be called addition i don't think they could have called that

01:28:06   anymore i think really the question here is is apple ever going to make a mainstream set of apple

01:28:11   watches that are differentiated on core hardware features where they've got two different kinds

01:28:19   and the core hardware the naked robotic core hardware features are are different that there's

01:28:27   one that does more and if you would ask me this question in the early days of the iphone i would

01:28:33   have said no and obviously it did end up happening many years later so never say never but in the

01:28:39   short run i don't think that this is how they're going to differentiate now they may call something

01:28:43   a pro although that i don't think they will but they may but it feels to me much more likely that

01:28:49   what apple is going to do is focus on iterating on that core part and then how they market apple

01:28:56   watches is going to be about the wrapper that goes around it and pro and and simpler models

01:29:03   that are cheaper that are older or that are like an se kind of thing again that rather than it being

01:29:12   you know here are our two brand new watches and this one has more cores or something like i i just

01:29:18   i feel like the apple watch is much more of a widget where they'll just keep making a new

01:29:22   widget every year and wrapping a bunch of interesting things around it and like we've

01:29:25   talked about here the idea of a super ruggedized version but the naked robotic core at the center

01:29:30   of it is going to just be that and if they make a super fancy one i feel like materials is the place

01:29:35   where they iterate they make nicer materials and give you nicer material options rather than it

01:29:40   being you know a slightly upgraded widget but the iphone got to the point where that it made sense

01:29:48   for them to iterate like this so it could happen on the watch but i don't see it anytime soon

01:29:52   jake asks did you have to do anything jason to make the top of the safari 15

01:29:58   window match the color changing nav bar on six colors dot com

01:30:02   oh yes um yes a very nice uh six color subscriber who is a web developer named dan ryan

01:30:14   um sent me a javascript that does this so it originally when the first safari 15 betas came

01:30:21   out i i put in a randomizer so every time you loaded the page the color at the top would be

01:30:27   at the top like in your browser chrome would be one of the six colors um because if you don't know

01:30:34   if you sit on six colors dot com on any page long enough and stare at the nav bar it cycles through

01:30:41   all the colors doesn't just it starts with green but it keeps going so dan ryan wrote a javascript

01:30:47   that basically looks at the nav bar color and matches it as the header color that's in the

01:30:54   browser chrome however there are some issues with this that that dan addressed so all thanks to dan

01:31:00   for doing this for free just for fun because he thought it was fun um it doesn't rotate when you're

01:31:06   not when the browser uh or when the menu bar for six colors is not available because if you can

01:31:13   imagine reading a long article and you're down on the page and your top of your safari window keeps

01:31:18   pulsating in different colors very disturbing so if if the pulsation of the of the menu bar is off

01:31:24   your screen it stops and then if it comes back in it snaps back to whatever color the the nav bar on

01:31:30   sixcolors.com is and then in dark mode it does it snaps to nearby colors it's not quite the same

01:31:38   behavior and that's mostly because a lot of these six colors colors conflict with the browser chrome

01:31:44   in dark mode and so it looks weird so it doesn't look i think it's best um experienced in light

01:31:51   mode yeah because i'm looking at it right now and it seems like i mean i don't know if this is the

01:31:56   intended it changes only but it doesn't have all the hues yeah that's that's because the rotating

01:32:03   through all the hues in dark mode it basically uh safari is like nope not going to use that color and

01:32:08   so it starts not colored and then it suddenly appears colored and the colors come and go in

01:32:13   weird ways so the dark mode behavior is totally different but in light mode it will actually match

01:32:18   if the website nav bar is visible um and it will stop if the website nav bar is not visible

01:32:27   there i've described an easter egg to you but it's an easter egg within an easter egg it's coloring

01:32:32   the scroll bar for me too is that expected it's it's whatever safari picks up when you set the

01:32:38   theme color of a page yeah and again you can turn this feature off but uh if it's on uh and you're

01:32:50   experiencing the rainbow might of the six colors nav bar you will also experience it in other places

01:33:00   i upgraded to uh safari 15 today on my mac i like some most of it what i'll say we know what i'll

01:33:11   say is i like some parts of it a lot and i'm not that bothered about the other parts right so like

01:33:17   i really like tab groups it's a feature i've enjoyed and i want them on my mac now so now i

01:33:22   have them and i've created a new one today which is really good which is like the four tabs i need

01:33:27   when i'm recording a show so i now have a recording tab group and that's really great that so it keeps

01:33:31   things nice and consistent for me nice the one thing i've noticed i don't know how to i've tried

01:33:37   to change this if people can give me the exact steps i need to do this great but now it seems

01:33:42   like now when i open window when i click a link somewhere saying messages it always opens a new

01:33:47   window in safari it's not opening things in new tabs it doesn't seem to and there's a setting which

01:33:53   you would think would fix this but it doesn't seem to which is open pages in tabs instead of windows

01:33:58   and if you say oh i click it to always and it says yes always create tabs and then i click a link and

01:34:05   it opens a new window huh i'm not really sure why it's doing that that that might be an unintended

01:34:11   functionality might be a bug and i think i can understand why it might be freaking out because

01:34:18   it's like which tab group do you want this window to this tab to appear in right i think that might

01:34:23   be why it's like right right but it could it could i don't know i mean it could also just be like

01:34:30   whatever tab group is currently open that's what i would want to do and then i can move it around as

01:34:34   i need right so like i don't know if i've got something weird going on here i'll keep my eye on

01:34:39   that um the other thing that i would like to be able to do i wanted to do this on my ipad i really

01:34:45   want to do it on my mac now is to be able to pin tabs within a tab group because you can pin tabs

01:34:52   in the standard non-tab group tabs right you know yes on mac on the mac i would like to be able to

01:35:00   pin tabs within a tab group so i love pin tabs i use them on this less ui and they stay fixed and

01:35:07   i'm glad they're still there i am very frustrated that they never made it their way to the ipad

01:35:14   and i am frustrated that they don't exist on in uh in the tab groups so i'm with you there i i

01:35:21   feel like apple has decided that pin tabs are not a thing and that they remain where they were

01:35:28   stuck on that one group in the on the mac but the fact that they did not migrate to pin tabs

01:35:34   or to uh to tab groups bums me out because i like them too i like them a lot and would like to see

01:35:41   them in different contexts and for those who don't know this is you you take a tab and you drag it

01:35:45   all the way to the left on the mac and it becomes well now it used to be a tab and now it's a little

01:35:50   box and it's sort of like a permanent tab that is always there for the site that you drag over there

01:35:58   and if you go to that tab and navigate within that site it actually stays within the little pin tab

01:36:02   and if you exit that site it opens a new tab with wherever you're going and i have three of those

01:36:08   and i use it all the time when you say when you describe it like that that's also kind of tab

01:36:13   groups right where it's like you can go wherever you want on that page you go on another device

01:36:18   and you're also there too like you know it's like it sinks the progress but i still want to do pin

01:36:23   tabs they're literally tabs i don't understand why apple can't sync them call have a little

01:36:30   identity this is this is a pinned tab and then also display them at least on the ipad but they

01:36:36   they they don't they never did and they still haven't um i upgraded my imac to moderate okay

01:36:45   i mean the moderate beta but it's it's going to be final yeah obviously i'm still in big

01:36:50   sir but safari 15 is now available on big sir and so my you know i've been using it all summer but

01:36:57   now it's on in my face at my main mac all the time and you know john grouper and i thoroughly

01:37:04   demolished um safari 15 tabs on the talk show last week um i hate them uh i really like tab groups

01:37:12   but i hate the design of the tabs and i and most of all like we can all get fussy about design and

01:37:19   say why do they like but the tabs were also use a usability issue where it was it used to be much

01:37:26   clearer which tab was the current tab and where you were you could at a glance determine where you

01:37:32   were and now it's not and that's what they have to fix we can you know they can solve it however

01:37:38   they want they don't have to necessarily revert it to the way it was but they gotta do better than it

01:37:43   currently exists because it's very very difficult to detect uh which tab is the active tab and the

01:37:50   fact that often it's the least readable tab that's the active tab that's just backward so that

01:37:57   frustrates me uh it still frustrates me and as i said to john last week it feels very much like they

01:38:04   they they stopped everything when all the criticism came in they fixed up the iphone as much as they

01:38:13   could and then they seem to just give up on making any more changes to the ipad and the mac

01:38:19   and it's a i don't understand it i don't understand what motivated them it feels very much like they

01:38:24   were motivated by something that they then gave up on but they kept all the changes that they made

01:38:28   anyway and i don't see any benefit to what they did here i think it makes tab groups worse and

01:38:36   tab groups are good so it should make them better anyway i don't like them oh i just want to just

01:38:43   like for just state for the record i'm fine with it like i don't like it but i'm not really mad

01:38:51   about it like i know a lot of people are really mad all of my friends are really mad about it

01:38:56   and i just like i'm like what i'm kind of like whatever about it like i'm not like oh everyone's

01:39:04   being uh silly for being so upset don't feel that right like because i agree with what you're saying

01:39:09   i agree with what everybody's saying but just me i'm kind of just like this is fine like i can deal

01:39:16   with this all right i mean i can we can deal with a lot of things but i look at it and i think if

01:39:20   i'm somebody who writes and talks about what apple does um i need to i need to be honest when i think

01:39:26   that apple has blown it and i agree i'm not saying anything you're saying or anyone else is saying is

01:39:32   wrong right like this is what like yeah i feel like you've thought that i'm getting worked up

01:39:36   worked up about it because you know it's annoying but doesn't rise to a past a certain level with

01:39:42   you i guess i think that's exactly it like if i i agree with what you're saying but this is just

01:39:48   it's just not something that i'm that fussed about i don't know why but like you know i

01:39:52   okay i get upset about lots of things like everybody else but it's fair this is one of

01:39:56   those ones that hasn't gotten me too much and i couldn't get as enthusiastic about

01:40:01   promotion on the iphone as everybody has different things that they get worked up about positively and

01:40:08   negatively and this is like for me i think one of the things that is really like that i'm willing to

01:40:13   accept it is i love the tab groups feature so much i'm willing to make a like to excuse a lot

01:40:18   of features in safari right like i'm just like fine whatever like yeah and for me i mean am i

01:40:23   am i using safari well yeah i am am i gonna run to chrome or something like that i'm not it's not

01:40:28   gonna happen but i i do think it's literally my job to call it out and say they should do better

01:40:36   so i'm you know that's i i i would love to see them tidy up a little bit like maybe you have

01:40:41   you have enough other people working in this business who care about it more than you that

01:40:44   you don't you know you're you're not the last line of safari defense yeah i don't feel like i need to

01:40:49   make a stand for something that i find mildly distasteful because everybody else is really

01:40:54   upset about it and doing the job you know yeah exactly you don't oh that happens to me all the

01:40:59   time mike i gotta say that happens to me all the time and i know you and i talk about it it's like

01:41:03   there are issues that come up and people some people step forward and they're like this shall

01:41:07   be my issue and i am going to and and you sit there and go oh i don't disagree but i don't want

01:41:14   this to be my issue and you just let it go you can't you can't get that way about it you gotta

01:41:20   you gotta pick your spots and so if i'm writing a mac os review which i totally am i have it on my

01:41:27   mind because i'm gonna rip them a new one it's it's you know i as a critic of operating systems

01:41:34   i have to do that like it's just it's my job to do that and so i'm in that mind but i totally

01:41:40   understand looking at and being like i agree with you but not my fight gonna let somebody else you

01:41:47   you all fight that one out uh good luck i i'm with you but way back here not not not literally right

01:41:55   on the front i'm not i don't need to be on the front line of this one i feel you but i'm i'm not

01:42:00   with you yeah and that's like this is like a thing in general right like people write in they're like

01:42:06   i can't believe you're not talking about this on the show and it's like it's because i a lot

01:42:12   it's like i just don't have something to say about it you know well and honestly the other this is

01:42:18   super meta now but honestly part of it is i don't want to do a topic an injustice by talking about

01:42:30   it when i know that it matters but i don't really care about it if that makes sense right i get that

01:42:36   like like if we bring something up on upgrade and dive into it because we feel we have to

01:42:44   and we don't care about it that much like what is that like why do we why do we waste our time why

01:42:52   do we waste the listeners time with something and so that's how i read a lot of those emails

01:42:56   which is like i can't believe you didn't talk about this it's like well we can't talk about

01:42:59   there's nobody talking about this jason and i i don't i don't know i can't believe it i can't

01:43:04   believe you didn't mention which is my least favorite thing that i ever hear about anything

01:43:09   i do on the internet i can't believe you didn't mention this thing that matters to me and like

01:43:13   well it didn't matter to me sorry it didn't so i i think there's that too which is you got to pick

01:43:18   your spots and pick things that you care about and maybe you can add to the conversation about so

01:43:22   uh thank you for listening to me rant about safari 15 tabs uh tab groups are nice i agree you know

01:43:28   what though the upgrade ends if you do have a thing that you want to hear us talk about and

01:43:34   we haven't spoken about it there's one place for it you can send in a tweet with the hashtag ask

01:43:38   upgrade or use question mark ask upgrade in the relay fm members discord this section does

01:43:43   actually do a lot for this for us because there will sometimes be a thing which i know is a thing

01:43:48   that people will bother about oh yeah bring it into ask upgrade because we can talk about it for

01:43:53   two minutes and move on like we don't need to make it like a big thing so this is a great segment for

01:43:59   that exact thing thank you for listening to this week's episode of upgrade and thank you to fitbaud

01:44:04   smile and squarespace for the support of the show if you would like ad-free longer episodes of

01:44:09   upgrade every single week just go to get upgrade plus dot com and you can sign up thank you to

01:44:13   everybody that supports the show by doing so if you want to find jason online you can go to

01:44:17   sixcolors.com and if you're on safari 15 you can have yourself a little bit there

01:44:21   into the colors if that's something that you're into you can go to jace at jason l on twitter

01:44:27   j s n e double l i am at i mike i m y k e and don't forget to check out downstream at relay.fm

01:44:34   we'll be back next time until then say goodbye jason snow goodbye mike early