00:00:14 ◼ ► Fitbod, Squarespace and TexExpander. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi Jason.
00:00:20 ◼ ► Hi Myke, how are you? I'm good. So today is uh October 4th and I broke down 10/4 and so
00:00:28 ◼ ► 10/4 good buddy. 10/4 good buddy. Breaker breaker. Breaker. I have a hashtag snow talk question for
00:00:33 ◼ ► you big eagle and it comes from Ryan. Ryan wants to know do you use any developer provided
00:00:40 ◼ ► alternate icons in apps? I was thinking about this. I have uh a few, a handful. I think I'm using the
00:01:01 ◼ ► apple colors because of my personal brand, I will choose it. So my pcalc icon is like that. I think
00:01:08 ◼ ► I have Apollo installed, the reddit client, although I almost never use it and I think I'm using the
00:01:26 ◼ ► or office or any of the google products or like just anything because they weren't with just
00:01:34 ◼ ► corporate. For me it's mostly photos but yes it's really annoying and and so I'm using the purple
00:01:39 ◼ ► background. It's just just reminding me that I don't know if they have that option on the mac.
00:01:45 ◼ ► They don't but you could always just download one. You could just yeah you could do that yourself.
00:01:50 ◼ ► You could hijack a different icon. I realize I have the white icon on my mac. I do this quite a lot.
00:01:58 ◼ ► If a developer offers it I will always look and if there's something that I prefer I'll change it.
00:02:02 ◼ ► This isn't always the case. Like for example Todoist, they offer lots of different colors
00:02:07 ◼ ► but I prefer their standard which is red with white but some of the ones that I use, I use Carrot
00:02:14 ◼ ► one. They have like a neon-y kind of one. I don't remember the name but it looks like the logo is
00:02:18 ◼ ► made out of neon. Craft, they have a lot of good options and I use a nice one with a bit of a
00:02:23 ◼ ► texture on it. I also use the six color one for pcalc. I use the dark icon for overcast. I use,
00:02:30 ◼ ► I also use the purple one for slack. I use the dark version like the blacked out version of
00:02:36 ◼ ► fantastical. Narwhal, I also use the dark version. If I use an app, well I tend to use all my apps in
00:02:43 ◼ ► dark mode but if there's like a dark mode version of an icon I'll always change to it because that
00:02:47 ◼ ► is kind of my mental model for the application. And parcel as well has a bunch of them.
00:03:06 ◼ ► Oh well I also, do I use overcast in dark mode? I think I don't but the icon is I like that orange
00:03:13 ◼ ► icon too much to do the alternate icon. Yeah you see for me the application is all black like dark
00:03:20 ◼ ► gray and blue so for the icon to be orange would mess up my brain. Fair enough. That's just for me
00:03:25 ◼ ► because like because the icon matches the colors of the application. I like it when I can when I
00:03:30 ◼ ► can also do that. I'm never going to turn down an orange icon I guess is what I'm saying. That makes
00:03:34 ◼ ► sense. I really love this feature in general. I think all developers should offer options.
00:03:40 ◼ ► Why not like just go for it. It's a fun little thing to do and it's also an easy thing to sell
00:03:45 ◼ ► as an extra for people too. I think this podcast is on the record as saying one colors are fun
00:03:53 ◼ ► and two having fun on your device is fun is good. It's good. Colors of fun, fun is good.
00:04:04 ◼ ► Fun is underrated. We should yeah people should people having fun is a good thing and colors are
00:04:09 ◼ ► fun so of course you should have alternate icons because people should customize their devices and
00:04:16 ◼ ► have that be fun. Yeah always a fun always a fun. So let's do some follow-up Jason. Oh by the way if
00:04:24 ◼ ► you'd like to send in a question for Snail Talk hashtag Snail Talk or question mark Snail Talk in
00:04:27 ◼ ► the Relay FM members Discord. Thank you to Ryan for that great question. I just wanted to say the
00:04:32 ◼ ► Saint Jude campaign is now over. The donation page is going to stop accepting donations tomorrow
00:04:38 ◼ ► as we record this. This is because we have our final corporate matches still left to be added in.
00:04:44 ◼ ► I am not going to spoil the total amount that has been raised. I do know what it is but I'm not
00:04:51 ◼ ► going to spoil it before it's actually been added and it hasn't at the time of recording. But it is
00:05:02 ◼ ► Like right now it's over $680,000 as I'm talking right now without those final corporate matches
00:05:08 ◼ ► added in. So I just want to thank all of our listeners for helping support such an incredible
00:05:14 ◼ ► cause and we really really appreciate it. Yeah. I have some follow-up from Christopher. So if you
00:05:22 ◼ ► remember the last couple of weeks when we've been talking about some stuff with photos you've been
00:05:26 ◼ ► mentioning the lookup visual lookup feature which you know the thing that can't detect cats.
00:05:32 ◼ ► But can detect plants. Yes, thinks every cat is a tailless cat. Yep. And I kept saying I'm not
00:05:37 ◼ ► seeing this I'm not seeing this. Christopher wrote in to say it's US only right now. Yeah.
00:05:41 ◼ ► You apparently have to have your device set to US English and then it will show up. Some of this
00:05:46 ◼ ► stuff is so strangely arbitrary. It's like oh no we can only recognize dogs in America. English dogs?
00:05:53 ◼ ► No way. Forget it. It's not not there. Freedom dogs only. We know that's right. We don't understand
00:06:04 ◼ ► traveling outside of the US. But I can only recognize them in the US. That makes it even
00:06:08 ◼ ► more annoying right like you can recognize things in the United Kingdom. I can and I did.
00:06:14 ◼ ► Buildings. That's the thing is I've got various pictures of buildings in London where it's like
00:06:18 ◼ ► I know what that building is and yet you can't do that you are in London. So what what is that about?
00:06:24 ◼ ► I don't know. I don't know. It's a mystery. This is something I saw on MacRumors today when I was
00:06:33 ◼ ► preparing for the show. As I was as I do on a Monday morning I kind of go through my RSS
00:06:38 ◼ ► of make sure I'm caught up on all the news and stuff that I want to bring to the episode. I saw
00:06:42 ◼ ► a headline that created great nostalgia for me for last year and it's iPhone 13 models still include
00:06:48 ◼ ► EarPods in the box in France. Yeah oh this is this is I admire MacRumors in industry for writing a
00:06:59 ◼ ► story about what was already true about the next but it's a new iPhone and it's still there. Still
00:07:03 ◼ ► there. A new story is written about the thing that we talked about. MacRumors is the canary in the
00:07:07 ◼ ► coal mine for EarPods now. That's right if they if they stop writing about French EarPods then
00:07:12 ◼ ► we'll know something is up. And of course it's the classic box within a box maneuver where they
00:07:18 ◼ ► literally ship the iPhone 13 box inside another box that also has EarPods in it. Yeah so they
00:07:25 ◼ ► don't change the box that everybody else gets. They just the shipping box or something. They just put
00:07:29 ◼ ► like a white it's like generic white box. It's so great. It's really just Apple being like hey
00:07:34 ◼ ► France here you go whatever. This came up I think because last year when they removed the power
00:07:46 ◼ ► Apple force Apple to do things and in France is one of them. The law being that you have to have
00:07:52 ◼ ► a hands-free kit which is just like a hilarious notion now I think anyway but you know you still
00:07:59 ◼ ► have to have a hands-free kit as if nobody could use a speakerphone. So without getting too deep
00:08:06 ◼ ► down into people having opinions about the EC the European Commission potentially saying that
00:08:14 ◼ ► that USB-C has to be a standard and there's lots of arguments about that that have been going on
00:08:19 ◼ ► kind of in the the sphere of Apple conversation the last few weeks. I will say that this is a
00:08:26 ◼ ► great bit of information for the side that points out that having big bureaucracies make decisions
00:08:35 ◼ ► based on technology that moves fast like vastly faster than they do is dumb and it's because the
00:08:42 ◼ ► hands-free kit specifically this is something from an era like pre-smartphone essentially where there
00:08:49 ◼ ► was all sorts of talk about how you if you hold your phone up to your face a lot you may be
00:08:54 ◼ ► getting dangerous amounts of radiation and it's unclear whether that's real or not but they passed
00:08:59 ◼ ► this rule at an in an era that was like prehistoric in terms of how we would think of it now but that
00:09:07 ◼ ► regulation just never died and so we're left with the box in the box in France. So it is I think an
00:09:15 ◼ ► argument about you know say what you will about governmental organizations regulating the technology
00:09:22 ◼ ► industry and I think it's a complex conversation and I think there are pros and cons and John
00:09:28 ◼ ► Gruber and I talked about it on the talk show last week for a little while and because I'm more
00:09:40 ◼ ► because I think as I've mentioned here before if you think about the USB-A connector that has
00:09:46 ◼ ► been with us for 25 years now. And it was a bad connector. And it was bad right it was way worse
00:09:52 ◼ ► than USB-C so I feel like USB-C although you know there'll be different labels and they'll be
00:09:56 ◼ ► incompatible and all that but that actual plug will probably be with us for the rest of our lives
00:10:00 ◼ ► honestly like once it's in it'll probably be impossible to get it out but these regulations
00:10:07 ◼ ► my point is this is a great example of regulating something because of a controversy and a
00:10:13 ◼ ► conversation that happened when we were carrying around like big thick like Nokia phones with
00:10:20 ◼ ► weird chargers and weird headphones that weren't proprietary connectors and you had to buy adapters
00:10:28 ◼ ► for those and somebody in France made this a rule and now we are left with an iPhone 13 coming
00:10:40 ◼ ► Yeah like I think that this hands-free thing was created for driving safety but I don't really think
00:10:46 ◼ ► that hands-free kits are what people tend to use these days anyway right like well so many cars
00:10:54 ◼ ► have all the stuff connected to them for speakerphone or people just use whatever they use.
00:10:59 ◼ ► Myke at least according to the bible of iPhones in boxes in France macrumors.com this is in order
00:11:17 ◼ ► Joe Rossignol is on it I love Joe is a friend of the show Joe actually that that Joe has to write
00:11:24 ◼ ► this story every year but it's it's to protect children from cell phone radiation by holding
00:11:29 ◼ ► their phones to their faces which quite honestly there's is there a child who holds their iPhone
00:11:34 ◼ ► up to their head ever? Maybe in France they do things different in France I don't know.
00:11:40 ◼ ► I fell into the same trap where I tried to apply logic to this rule and then got caught out I think
00:12:00 ◼ ► Europe at that point from an American perspective so I'm sure they stuck him on it it's like Canada
00:12:04 ◼ ► that's overseas of the Americans yeah you're on the beat you're on the France beat Rossignol
00:12:10 ◼ ► doesn't sound sounds kind of French isn't it you're on the box in a box beat Joe go to it
00:12:16 ◼ ► and we thank him for his service the box and I and thanks to the macrumors foreign members
00:12:21 ◼ ► who always send a picture to Joe of the box in a box another part of this story that delights me so
00:12:28 ◼ ► yeah stacks thanks for the stacks this one thanks for his own trick once again you you were trapped
00:12:33 ◼ ► inside the box inside the box the Apple watch series 7 was announced today that pre-orders
00:12:44 ◼ ► Uh very excited I want I want one I want one can we you're planning on pre-ordering one
00:12:50 ◼ ► yes my only hesitation is that I'll get it my problem with pre-ordering anything these days
00:12:56 ◼ ► honestly because I was thinking about this with the with iphone too is you can get up early in the
00:13:03 ◼ ► morning if you're in the US or if you're in in Pacific and you can press the button at that time
00:13:08 ◼ ► and they may give you a date that is the ship date and say it'll be at your house that date
00:13:12 ◼ ► but what I found is if I wait for the release date and go to the website and say can I pick it up at
00:13:18 ◼ ► my local Apple store they say sure go ahead just come on in and pick one up you can order it now
00:13:24 ◼ ► and pick it up in two hours so I'm I'm less enthusiastic about the pre-order because I know
00:13:33 ◼ ► that this the secret right has been unlocked for me which is if you live near an Apple store and I
00:13:38 ◼ ► live very near an Apple store they have stock on day one and you can go to Apple's website that day
00:13:44 ◼ ► and say I would like this and they say what time would you like to pick it up and that's pretty
00:13:49 ◼ ► good that's pretty nice so we'll see we'll see I'm gonna give it a try I think and if I'm unhappy
00:13:56 ◼ ► with what I see perhaps I'll change my mind I don't know the beauty of it is if it's if your
00:14:00 ◼ ► order is way back ordered like beyond a few days where your order is not going to go into process
00:14:07 ◼ ► you can cancel that order if they have them in stock on day one and just get them that way
00:14:12 ◼ ► yeah I'm planning on pre-ordering but I'm not around to either collect or accept a delivery
00:14:19 ◼ ► on the 15th so I oh I don't know and I'll find out is if I can arrange for a collection for a future
00:14:26 ◼ ► date so like maybe on Sunday or Monday or something to go pick it up we'll see that that that will be
00:14:31 ◼ ► my plan if I can't do that then I'll just wait I guess so let's do some upstream news this is where
00:14:39 ◼ ► we take a look at some of the news in streaming media mostly with a focus on Apple but before we
00:14:45 ◼ ► go upstream why don't we go downstream Jason would you like to tell the Upgradients about a brand new
00:14:51 ◼ ► podcast that has debuted here on relay FM uh yeah it's called downstream it's a little play on uh
00:14:57 ◼ ► upstream and also a play on download which I used to do it is a podcast with me and Julia Alexander
00:15:03 ◼ ► if people remember the episode where Myke disappeared in the middle of it and we talked
00:15:06 ◼ ► about we did like a mega upstream with Julia who is an analyst at at Parrot Analytics her entire
00:15:12 ◼ ► job is thinking about the streaming wars and the changes in entertainment in the business of
00:15:19 ◼ ► entertainment the stuff that we talk about here on upstream that's her job she thinks about that
00:15:23 ◼ ► all the time and we had a great time with her as a guest and so then we recorded a test show
00:15:27 ◼ ► and that was good and so we're going to launch officially on Wednesday we'll record and release
00:15:33 ◼ ► episode one of downstream episode zero is out now sort of to prime the pump and let people subscribe
00:15:38 ◼ ► and it's got our test show in it from August tacked on to the end of it and then every other week
00:15:44 ◼ ► we will be talking about these issues and that's what the whole podcast is is talking about
00:15:49 ◼ ► the you know the future of streaming media and the what the how it's going to change how we
00:15:55 ◼ ► consume entertainment in our homes and you know and movie theaters and you know everything else
00:16:00 ◼ ► that's involved with the the shift from linear tv and movie theaters to streaming and maybe
00:16:07 ◼ ► movie theaters but we'll we'll we'll talk about all that stuff and so i'm looking forward to it
00:16:12 ◼ ► i i have a upstream is fun but we don't get to it every week and it's a little more focused on apple
00:16:18 ◼ ► i used to talk with tim goodman about this stuff every week on the tv talk machine podcast but tim
00:16:22 ◼ ► retired from that part of the business and so i'm sort of filling that tv talk machine shaped hole
00:16:30 ◼ ► in my life with uh with downstream yeah i'm really excited about it i'm so pleased uh that we're able
00:16:36 ◼ ► to walk in julia to the relay fm family she's yes absolutely yeah she's super sharp so smart and
00:16:41 ◼ ► very very happy that we're able to make this happen i have loved her coverage of this stuff
00:16:45 ◼ ► for years now great twitter follow yep yep and uh so to be able to talk about it with her
00:16:52 ◼ ► every fortnight is uh it's gonna be great um and for those who listen live uh we record we're
00:16:59 ◼ ► gonna record it probably during connected so we'll be broadcasting it live but it'll be yet another
00:17:04 ◼ ► wednesday podcast on relay fm where we love a good wednesday all the podcasts come out on wednesdays
00:17:09 ◼ ► love a good wednesday around yeah you know i'm real i'm genuinely really excited about it it's
00:17:14 ◼ ► obviously a topic that i have interest in too because it's something that we bring to this show
00:17:18 ◼ ► but it's gonna be going in much in much more depth and talking about things that we just wouldn't get
00:17:24 ◼ ► to uh so if you like upstream like if you enjoy this segment of the show don't worry it's not
00:17:30 ◼ ► going away um but there will be even more conversation about this type of stuff in more
00:17:35 ◼ ► depth and spanning out across the industry at large at downstream so you can go to relay.fm
00:17:40 ◼ ► downstream and you can check it out so to talk about some headlines of our own here the athletic
00:17:48 ◼ ► is reporting that apple is nfl's favorite for their out of market package this is the sunday
00:17:59 ◼ ► um this was the case i think i think grouper asked me about this on the talk show last week he
00:18:05 ◼ ► actually played point blank he was like do you think apple's going to get nfl sunday tickets
00:18:08 ◼ ► nfl sunday ticket is basically all the football games not being aired in your area so uh your
00:18:15 ◼ ► local station will broadcast a game and if you've got it you know you've got a couple different
00:18:18 ◼ ► network affiliates you'll get maybe three games on a sunday all the rest of the games that are
00:18:23 ◼ ► being played on a sunday are not available for you to see if you're a fan of a team that is not
00:18:27 ◼ ► one of your local teams you can't see that stuff so it's been a very successful product i would say
00:18:34 ◼ ► for direct tv for the last like 20 years i think um like literally when i moved into our house here
00:18:41 ◼ ► which was a long time ago i got satellite tv specifically to get nfl sunday ticket and so it
00:18:46 ◼ ► was a way for them as a to sell people on the idea of not doing cable and instead doing satellite
00:18:53 ◼ ► so they could get this exclusive thing so i think it's driven a huge amount of sales and as a result
00:19:00 ◼ ► it's sort of become the kind of thing you pay for we've talked about it here before it's the
00:19:03 ◼ ► kind of thing that if you're a tv provider you you bid for knowing you're going to lose money on it
00:19:10 ◼ ► because you've got some other goal and that's like with direct tv it was driving subscriptions like
00:19:16 ◼ ► we overpay for this but it gets people to be direct tv customers and then we've got them for years and
00:19:21 ◼ ► years and years paying monthly for our service so what would apple do with it i don't know but like
00:19:27 ◼ ► i think it's interesting that if apple wants to goose subscriptions to apple tv plus and make it a
00:19:34 ◼ ► requirement for sunday ticket they're going to get a lot more people signing up for apple tv plus
00:19:39 ◼ ► right so that that would be big picture strategy and you know apple and amazon i would say also
00:19:44 ◼ ► who i think is a severe serious competitor for this product those are big tech companies that
00:19:49 ◼ ► are playing a different game netflix is playing the game of subscriber acquisition uh disney plus
00:19:56 ◼ ► is is subscriber acquisition disney and espn right but apple and amazon like they they're
00:20:03 ◼ ► their business this is a tiny part of their overall business and i think that makes them maybe more
00:20:09 ◼ ► likely to overpay for it because the point is really just to drive more people into the rest
00:20:16 ◼ ► of what they do so it's an interesting idea it would definitely i actually think it's great for
00:20:21 ◼ ► consumers because um well it's great for most consumers i would say people people in rural
00:20:26 ◼ ► areas that have slow broadband it's gonna be terrible for them because they're going to need
00:20:31 ◼ ► to uh they're gonna have to stream and streaming is slow although you can if you've got satellite
00:20:36 ◼ ► ironically they probably need to keep their satellite dishes because they'll need their
00:20:40 ◼ ► satellite broadband in order to get the games but for a lot of people in urban areas this is great
00:20:45 ◼ ► because they can't or or it's too difficult to put up a satellite dish essentially and instead
00:20:52 ◼ ► they'll just have it on an app on their tv so that would be pretty cool so anyway apple um as you and
00:20:59 ◼ ► i've talked about here before i think the big story is i think apple is really interested in
00:21:03 ◼ ► doing live sports as a way to drive people into its services because live sports is one of those
00:21:10 ◼ ► things that is not um going away and is a way to get people focused on you know you you if you're
00:21:18 ◼ ► a fan of that sport or a fan of that team um you know you could cut the cord but you're gonna lose
00:21:24 ◼ ► access to that so this is a it's a powerful it's been a powerful way for like cable companies to
00:21:28 ◼ ► keep people on cable it's turning into a powerful way for streaming services to get people to sign
00:21:33 ◼ ► up for their streaming services so let's keep an eye on it whether it's this one or something else
00:21:39 ◼ ► i the athletic source i also wonder if that is a little bit of the nfl you know kind of talking up
00:21:46 ◼ ► apple to stoke the fires of of more bids from other tech companies who covet this package but
00:21:52 ◼ ► it'll be interesting to watch just from that standpoint that this is something that has been
00:21:56 ◼ ► driving satellite acquisition for the last 20 years and it's possible that apple or some other
00:22:01 ◼ ► tech company will turn that on its head i think it makes sense to have an appointment viewing which
00:22:10 ◼ ► is not just set on your own schedule you know like it's actually like you got to come and sit down
00:22:15 ◼ ► and use apple tv during that period of time and they can you know use that as an opportunity to
00:22:21 ◼ ► further you know share what they've got going on at apple tv like i saw similarly i saw a headline
00:22:27 ◼ ► recently that that reed hastings has said that you know netflix consider trying to get formula
00:22:33 ◼ ► one rights which makes a lot of sense for them because part of formula one's resurgence especially
00:22:38 ◼ ► in north america right now is because of the netflix documentary so it would make a lot of
00:22:43 ◼ ► sense for them to like you know they have that market now it's really interesting though because
00:22:48 ◼ ► netflix generally has been a company that i've poo-pooed their interest in live because it goes
00:22:53 ◼ ► against everything else netflix does so yeah including the way their technology is built
00:22:58 ◼ ► right because streaming events live is not the same as loading things on the cdn in various parts
00:23:02 ◼ ► of the world so that people can stream them at once it's like you've got to it's got to be right
00:23:07 ◼ ► now and the demand will will be at a hundred percent during the event people aren't tuning in
00:23:12 ◼ ► later they're tuning in right now and you've got to fulfill them all not that netflix can't do it
00:23:16 ◼ ► it's just not been a strategy for them so i think it's interesting that they mentioned at least an
00:23:20 ◼ ► interest in that because i do think that if you're running any sort of streaming service you should
00:23:25 ◼ ► be looking at whether um live sports rights make sense for you just as a way if nothing else just
00:23:31 ◼ ► as a way to acquire and keep subscribers so apple have secured the rights to a movie directed by
00:23:39 ◼ ► john wats starring brad pitt and george cluney as part of this deal the movie will get a quote
00:23:45 ◼ ► robust theatrical release first before it comes to apple tv plus apparently an eight figure sum was
00:23:52 ◼ ► left off the table to get this to happen like apple were willing to pay millions more to just
00:23:59 ◼ ► have it on apple tv plus um but no they're also going to be helping with a theatrical release i
00:24:05 ◼ ► was wondering about this about the this is an interesting thing to me especially in the case
00:24:10 ◼ ► of this like if you're an apple tv plus subscriber and you know it's coming to the service quickly
00:24:16 ◼ ► right because you assume it's probably a shorter window and then it doesn't go to pay right it
00:24:22 ◼ ► comes straight to apple tv plus i wonder if like what's going to happen to this kind of thinking
00:24:26 ◼ ► in the future right like it's it's so difficult to tell right now i'm sure you and julia will talk
00:24:31 ◼ ► about this stuff a lot over the next couple of months but like just this idea of like shortening
00:24:35 ◼ ► windows and stuff like that like how many how much of a business is there going to be in the cinema
00:24:40 ◼ ► no i know like this weekend has been interesting venom's done really well in the us uh james bond's
00:24:46 ◼ ► done really well everywhere outside of the us also in the us but really good in the uk and stuff like
00:24:50 ◼ ► that so but it's so tricky to tell the the cinema business still yeah it's i think there's this is
00:24:59 ◼ ► just the big question is how our movie audience is going to become coming back how is that different
00:25:05 ◼ ► and let's not forget that on top of that is just the idea that um we were already experiencing a
00:25:13 ◼ ► transition so all these companies are balancing the money that they really want to get out of the
00:25:20 ◼ ► theater which is this really nice revenue stream they don't want to delete because they already are
00:25:24 ◼ ► getting kind of like the post theater money and they get the theater money so even though you're
00:25:29 ◼ ► streaming service is a high priority for you and you do want to maximize that and that's the future
00:25:33 ◼ ► of your business you also don't want to turn off the tap that's flowing all that money from the
00:25:37 ◼ ► theater in but at the same time you know people are more interested in streaming consumers are
00:25:44 ◼ ► uh you know kovid has to have at least knocked off enthusiasm in theaters by some it's all
00:25:51 ◼ ► i i'm fascinated by where this is going and kovid is just like another factor in this transition
00:25:57 ◼ ► because i think a lot of these movies i think the truth is a lot of these movies aren't going to do
00:26:02 ◼ ► that well in theaters because um they are not some of them are like big name big budget but i think
00:26:09 ◼ ► we may be headed for a place where um the only movies that really make sense in theaters at a
00:26:15 ◼ ► large scale are the big blockbusters and that everything else that was previously sort of like
00:26:20 ◼ ► struggling to find an audience the answer is those are going to be on streaming primarily and they
00:26:25 ◼ ► will find an audience there and that was already starting to happen before kovid so we'll just have
00:26:29 ◼ ► to see how it comes back and and how it changes i think the the the easy answer is that that window
00:26:35 ◼ ► between theater and streaming is going to shrink dramatically and that a lot of stuff that
00:26:40 ◼ ► previously might have shown up as a rental on itunes and amazon and stuff like that will instead
00:26:45 ◼ ► go straight to a streaming service because that that's the kind of money that they're willing to
00:26:50 ◼ ► forego in order to bolster their streaming services but we'll see so this is another movie of a-list
00:26:56 ◼ ► actors right coming to apple tv plus and when i was looking i was doing a bit of digging around
00:27:02 ◼ ► today following some links for some articles and stuff and just grabbed a selection of the movies
00:27:06 ◼ ► that apple has coming to the service i just wanted to read this list real quick because it's kind of
00:27:12 ◼ ► i think it's kind of astounding so they have emancipation starring will smith killers of the
00:27:16 ◼ ► flower moon of leonardo dicaprio and robert de niro spirited with will fowl ryan winnolds and
00:27:21 ◼ ► octavia spencer raimond and ray starring ewan mcgregor and ethan hawk bride with scarlet
00:27:26 ◼ ► johanson ghosted with chris evans and scarlet johanson kitbag with Joaquin phoenix snowblind
00:27:32 ◼ ► of jake gillenhole and sharper with julianne moore let's go to the apple film festival huh they're
00:27:36 ◼ ► all in on those movies we can all thank tom hanks at the steve jobs theater little film festival
00:27:43 ◼ ► there i guess so this episode is brought to you by fitbod the fitness app that provides a personalized
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00:29:46 ◼ ► continued support of this show and relay fm so i want to go through some rumors with you jason some
00:29:52 ◼ ► some info coming in from our friends at mac rumors and nine to five mac as as we do according to
00:29:59 ◼ ► ming chi kuo apple has abandoned a plan to release an oled ipad air in 2022 this was something that
00:30:07 ◼ ► apparently they were considering over concerns around quality of the panel and the costs
00:30:13 ◼ ► also it has been reported that the ipad pro the 11 inch ipad pro is going to get mini led in 2022
00:30:26 ◼ ► would be as it could have been detrimental to sales of the ipad pro which was when i first
00:30:32 ◼ ► saw the oled rumor i was very confused because it was like hang on a second which is best
00:30:38 ◼ ► mini led or oled right and like how would they argue or make the case for certain screens being
00:30:46 ◼ ► having different technology and better like oled's better in some ways mini led is better in some
00:30:52 ◼ ► ways and i feel like it would have been really confusing so if anything i'm actually pretty
00:30:56 ◼ ► happy that they're they're going to continue on the mini led train for a while that oled ipad air i
00:31:02 ◼ ► think would have been pretty hard right yeah i i i mean i don't know that's a large oled screen right
00:31:08 ◼ ► i mean it would have been great like but it would have been weird in the lineup i think would be the
00:31:12 ◼ ► would maybe be a bit of a problem interesting for a mid-range product right to have that to have the
00:31:18 ◼ ► oled on the mid-range product it sounds like this was like their idea of what they were going to try
00:31:24 ◼ ► to do and it didn't work like i i and and that they decided let's not do this which makes sense
00:31:30 ◼ ► to me because i feel like does the ipad air really need that kind of a screen like don't you want to
00:31:38 ◼ ► keep it differentiated from the ipad pro i i don't i don't know i it makes me wonder if there's a
00:31:45 ◼ ► bigger story here that they were down the path of investigating oled for the ipad and they ended up
00:31:50 ◼ ► with mini led and the oled stuff kept kicking around and they're like well maybe we could put
00:31:55 ◼ ► it in the air and then they finally just said no let's forget it let's let's kill it i wonder if
00:31:59 ◼ ► that's really the story of of what happened here i think that makes a lot of sense right that like
00:32:05 ◼ ► before they landed on mini led for the ipad pro they were looking at oled first because like my
00:32:12 ◼ ► understanding of this stuff maybe you can correct me if i'm wrong is that technically oled tends to
00:32:17 ◼ ► be a better panel because you can actually get true blacks which you don't get with mini led
00:32:24 ◼ ► it's better much better but you can still get like that blooming and stuff which i know was a thing
00:32:29 ◼ ► that people were talking about a lot when the mini led ipad came around but like there's there's kind
00:32:34 ◼ ► of like i don't know pros and cons to each system it would have just been very strange i think to
00:32:39 ◼ ► have different ones going on i'm very excited about the 11-inch ipad pro getting the mini led
00:32:46 ◼ ► screen because i think i'm kind of done with the big ipad like the big big ipad pro i don't imagine
00:32:52 ◼ ► that being a product that i'm interested in anymore but i still like the idea of an 11-inch
00:32:58 ◼ ► ipad pro for work stuff and traveling and stuff like that but the 12.9 i think is bigger than i
00:33:06 ◼ ► want now and i have been very jealous of everybody including you with that mini led screen and the
00:33:11 ◼ ► one that i see at home because my wife has one and it looks so good you know federico will always
00:33:16 ◼ ► send us these pictures like he did when he did his original review he was doing this with the ipad
00:33:20 ◼ ► mini as well where he takes pictures of the screens with the lights off and you see the
00:33:24 ◼ ► differences of the yellow black you know and i'm like oh man it's a good example of how to get
00:33:31 ◼ ► across even if you're not on a high dynamic range screen that there's a big difference that you end
00:33:37 ◼ ► up with these really black blacks versus these very kind of gray blue muddy yeah it's uh yeah i
00:33:45 ◼ ► love it in the big ipad which i've got which is great and it looks great it's it's really
00:33:51 ◼ ► incredible technology and so i have the feeling like apple's really saying at this point and we
00:33:57 ◼ ► know that they're working on micro led right isn't that isn't that right i think so i believe so so
00:34:04 ◼ ► it seems like apple feels like at least right now improving your localized backlighting in order to
00:34:13 ◼ ► get dynamic range boost is a technology that they are happier with than oled and that isn't
00:34:21 ◼ ► just about oled performance it's also about oled pricing on larger displays because obviously
00:34:27 ◼ ► they've got oled in phones and watches so i think it's just it's really interesting to see
00:34:34 ◼ ► get a little bit of a glimpse into apple's kind of uh priority priority and prioritization of
00:34:42 ◼ ► display technologies and how they want to integrate them into their products because uh mini led is
00:34:48 ◼ ► apparently also coming to the next thing i'm going to talk about which is the macbook pro
00:34:52 ◼ ► uh mark garman has said that the macbook pro is still going to arrive within the next month
00:35:05 ◼ ► so the the m1x power mac powered macbook pro is expected to arrive uh this month with other
00:35:13 ◼ ► m1x products still expected uh possibly this year with the mac mini being the the most likely
00:35:20 ◼ ► candidate just as a refresher there will be two versions of the m1x uh is being reported by mark
00:35:26 ◼ ► garman both feature 10 cores eight high performance to efficiency and the difference being one has a
00:35:31 ◼ ► 16 core gpu the other has a 32 core gpu mark says that apple is still uh working on a higher
00:35:38 ◼ ► performance chip for a mac pro as well so i still want to see this product i remain very excited
00:35:46 ◼ ► about this macbook pro and i am very pleased to hear that it's still going to be a thing
00:35:51 ◼ ► uh very soon maybe within the next couple of weeks yeah it's um i think imminent right the
00:35:58 ◼ ► only question is how are they going to release this how are they going to do it can't wait to
00:36:02 ◼ ► see the m1x i did a story a while ago somebody kindly in the six colors slack for members they
00:36:10 ◼ ► kindly re-linked to the story that basically was my chip i'll find it we'll put a link in the show
00:36:18 ◼ ► notes it was my chip prognostications based on trends current processor trends and it would be
00:36:27 ◼ ► about that which is you know you're looking at a chip that is going to be scoring in multi-core
00:36:32 ◼ ► way way way faster than the fastest macbook pro today right the fastest macbook pro today the 16
00:36:37 ◼ ► inch you know it's got a geekbench number in the seven thousands maybe and i would imagine that
00:36:45 ◼ ► this thing will be in the 12 thousands so you know we're we're talking 50 percent faster uh 75
00:36:55 ◼ ► faster like it will be my prediction is uh the m1x would be a lot faster than uh than what we've got
00:37:03 ◼ ► in those intel high-end systems so very exciting yeah i'm pretty pumped the thing is for me though
00:37:09 ◼ ► all of this sounds great i'm really into it just oh man i love the thought of a new display sounds
00:37:15 ◼ ► awesome but i want apple to also who doesn't release their own display because i use my macbook
00:37:24 ◼ ► pro mostly in docked mode right clam clam show mode i plug my macbook pro into an lg display
00:37:32 ◼ ► and the experience is not that great like every day when i plug it in i have to do some dance of
00:37:38 ◼ ► plugging and unplugging the monitor to get it to actually turn on properly so i would love apple
00:37:43 ◼ ► to release their own display again which i know is heavily rumored that they're working on but i want
00:37:48 ◼ ► them to do that at the same time as these new macbook pros so i can get a better experience
00:37:53 ◼ ► out of using my macbook pro the way that i want to use it and it would also be super cool if they
00:37:58 ◼ ► made it mini led as well so i would also get the full experience that i would otherwise be getting
00:38:05 ◼ ► when my macbook would be open even when it's closed wouldn't that be nice we're all waiting
00:38:09 ◼ ► for it but i i've reached the point with the external display where it's like i don't want
00:38:14 ◼ ► to predict it anymore because it's like it makes so much sense and yet they won't do it
00:38:18 ◼ ► so laptops would be a great time to introduce it wouldn't it or when they do the mac mini but
00:38:25 ◼ ► either or but like please just anytime would be good just tomorrow would be good because i would
00:38:30 ◼ ► still want it we'll take it any day laptop that's right has somebody created is is apple selling a
00:38:36 ◼ ► lower cost standalone display.com don't register that domain people but you can it could be any
00:38:46 ◼ ► is shipping because that could have been held for some kind of event right saying like oh remember
00:38:51 ◼ ► the apple watch it's coming at this point the only other things left as well as the uh macbook pro i
00:38:56 ◼ ► guess it's like an airpods 3 and a date for macos monterey so i don't know that the i'm kind of like
00:39:02 ◼ ► starting to lose faith on like a standalone event now i feel like the products are slimming down
00:39:07 ◼ ► but i still want it i want an event these laptops feel so cool i want them to to roll out the red
00:39:13 ◼ ► carpet for them but we'll find out we will there were some updates to i work last week oh we're
00:39:19 ◼ ► there i saw the headlines go by and saw it happened and then was kind of like i don't care
00:39:25 ◼ ► about this but then you you wrote an article and you told me some of the stuff that's in especially
00:39:32 ◼ ► keynote which is actually kind of cool right yeah i think the keynote stuff for me the keynote stuff
00:39:39 ◼ ► is is the best stuff and i think apple knows that it's the best stuff so they allow you now
00:39:43 ◼ ► in keynote to create an object in the slide that is a live video view of you through a camera or
00:39:51 ◼ ► of a screen capture of an ios device so you would get to a page in the presentation and then your
00:39:57 ◼ ► camera would turn is that how it works yeah exactly and it's a it's an object on the slide
00:40:04 ◼ ► so you can do a move transition you can have it appear when you build a slide it can be layered
00:40:11 ◼ ► over or under other objects in the slide you can imagine a presentation where you are over here in
00:40:19 ◼ ► a little box and then you go to the next slide and it's just you and and this is great for like
00:40:29 ◼ ► keynote can let you build that also you can record your keynote so you can use this to record
00:40:33 ◼ ► a slideshow that integrates your video into it i just think it's really smart and then on top of
00:40:38 ◼ ► that device capture so if you are demoing for example something you need to do on your iphone
00:40:42 ◼ ► or ipad you can actually bring up a slide that has a live view of an iphone that you then have
00:40:47 ◼ ► your iphone there and you tap around and everybody sees it in the slide and then when you tap away
00:40:53 ◼ ► that slide goes away and the capture goes away so that's actually quite cool i don't know what i
00:41:01 ◼ ► would use it for but i'm happy that i know that it exists now because then i could right and a lot of
00:41:07 ◼ ► these things i mean it's kind of funny really because you know what this stuff is sounds really
00:41:11 ◼ ► great for remote learning which is definitely still happening but it's happening less it of
00:41:18 ◼ ► course you know kind of reminds me of shareplay right like these things are super great when all
00:41:23 ◼ ► of school is remote and it feels like at least in a lot of parts of the world that's not so much of
00:41:29 ◼ ► a going concern whether it should or shouldn't be it just isn't happening but these things are cool
00:41:35 ◼ ► for whenever it might be needed again i guess yeah i mean i i'm not sure camera is seems to me to be
00:41:43 ◼ ► very much a remote presentation feature yeah screen capture is more i mean this is another one
00:41:49 ◼ ► of these things where apple's like all right well everybody's doing screen capture everybody's doing
00:41:53 ◼ ► you know shared screen presentations now because of covid what could we what could we do and so now
00:41:59 ◼ ► we're getting them a year later and are they you know what's the validity of them now i think
00:42:04 ◼ ► there's people are going to be doing remote presentations forever because it's a way that
00:42:08 ◼ ► we can that's true so that's very true yeah i was thinking of the learning thing but yeah
00:42:12 ◼ ► presentations with with remote working this is kind of perfect for this uh which is you know
00:42:24 ◼ ► i'll just say like when i say like i don't care about these it's just like i don't really think
00:42:28 ◼ ► about the new features for these products and i use all three of them like a lot i use numbers
00:42:34 ◼ ► pages and keynote like i use them um for all kinds of stuff like pretty much every day but i'm i
00:42:41 ◼ ► consider myself a very basic user of them keynote is probably the one i use the least because i
00:42:46 ◼ ► don't do a lot of presentations but i do use pages and numbers a lot so just i like the way to look
00:42:51 ◼ ► they're very and i find them very simple and their simplicity is why i don't necessarily seek out
00:42:56 ◼ ► features from them you know what i mean i can't really pay attention to the release notes because
00:43:02 ◼ ► i just want to do what i know how to do with them and keep it at that but it's cool that they've
00:43:05 ◼ ► added them this is going to be great for people who need them and i'm sure these keynote features
00:43:09 ◼ ► i'll find something to do with them at some point in the future i i think about like i give
00:43:13 ◼ ► presentations from time to time to you know user groups and those used to be in person but now
00:43:19 ◼ ► they're mostly online and this is great because i i had actually stopped giving slides because i
00:43:27 ◼ ► felt like my slides didn't didn't say that much and i should just do video presentation now i
00:43:33 ◼ ► think about this and i think oh now it would be easy for me to integrate my video when i want
00:43:38 ◼ ► and put slides in when i want and even mix and match and i like that idea so i i think i think
00:43:44 ◼ ► it's very very cool idea um the the uh numbers update by the way is pivot tables which is a
00:43:52 ◼ ► feature that's been excel in excel for a million years i don't know what they are but i know people
00:43:57 ◼ ► really like them yeah it's like a summary view of a large data set that's in there and and you have
00:44:02 ◼ ► some abilities to filter it and it's like if you're processing large amounts of data in numbers
00:44:07 ◼ ► um which are people i guess people are i always hear from people who are like yes i use i work
00:44:12 ◼ ► i was like okay great like i don't and pages also has some new features i don't use pages either i
00:44:18 ◼ ► use numbers for like just keeping track of some stuff but the main reason that i use numbers is
00:44:23 ◼ ► because i find it so easy to create graphs right otherwise i use google sheets like that's i tend
00:44:32 ◼ ► to use google sheets the most but i can't really ever get google sheets to work the way i want to
00:44:37 ◼ ► with creating graphs but numbers like graphs and charts are so easy to make so that's what i use
00:44:42 ◼ ► numbers for for that kind of stuff and i know you use numbers yeah i use numbers for charting yeah
00:44:48 ◼ ► i never really think about using it for like giant spreadsheets but i know you know because i i have
00:44:54 ◼ ► microsoft office so i just use excel i'm comfortable in excel but i i get that people don't i think i
00:44:58 ◼ ► use google sheets for big stuff because all my big stuff tends to need to be shared with someone
00:45:03 ◼ ► i i also use google sheets a lot but the fact is that apple made this office suite that's
00:45:08 ◼ ► essentially you know if not free essentially free and um so people use it and it's great that apple
00:45:14 ◼ ► is continuing to update it like i i love that they keep making an effort with these products
00:45:19 ◼ ► and i love keynote and i rely on numbers for my charts so i am also appreciative that apple
00:45:26 ◼ ► is uh updating them this episode is brought to you by text expander for my friends that smile
00:45:31 ◼ ► talk about uh apps and services that we love i love text expander i use it so much every day
00:45:37 ◼ ► i just set up some new snippets this morning like for my office address because i realized i'm
00:45:42 ◼ ► typing this out too much i need to create a text expander snippet for it and that's the whole thing
00:45:46 ◼ ► if you type the same stuff over and over and over again whether it's customer support answers sales
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00:46:17 ◼ ► text expander the team stuff is also really great so like we have a bunch of snippets that we use
00:46:22 ◼ ► here at real afm whether it's like advertising copy that we might need in certain places or
00:46:27 ◼ ► sales emails that we'll send out to people or the way that we might just have some kind of
00:46:31 ◼ ► communication with an external company being able to have like a bank of text expander snippets that
00:46:37 ◼ ► we can use for that stuff make sure that we're doing two things which is we're all saying the
00:46:42 ◼ ► same kinds of things when we're talking to people because there's a few of us that use these snippets
00:46:46 ◼ ► but we're also taking advantage of the best writers in our organization who have the best
00:46:51 ◼ ► things to say or they say things in the best way and they can share that with everybody else
00:46:55 ◼ ► that is super important and it's like a really helpful feature as a listener of this show you
00:47:05 ◼ ► text expander today that's textexpander.com/podcast our thanks to text expander from smile for the
00:47:11 ◼ ► support of this show and relay fm now around this time of year kind of like the full-time new device
00:47:17 ◼ ► time that kind of stuff we do tend to get a lot more ask upgrade questions than we would other
00:47:22 ◼ ► times of the year oh yeah thank you there's some there's a lot of lasers a backlog of lasers
00:47:28 ◼ ► and i realized today when i was going through the document that we had a huge backlog and some of
00:47:34 ◼ ► these questions would otherwise not have gotten answered because they may have gotten out of date
00:47:38 ◼ ► in a few weeks time so today we're going to be doing an extended ask upgrade segment two maybe
00:47:45 ◼ ► three full segments of ask upgrade that we would normally do so strap in the first question comes
00:47:51 ◼ ► from s u who asks i'm curious to know now that both of you have used the iphone 13 pro as well
00:47:57 ◼ ► as ipad pro and ipad mini is 120 hertz promotion more important or noticeable on the ipad or the
00:48:04 ◼ ► iphone and i'm intrigued for you because you seem kind of down on uh promotion on the iphone i'm not
00:48:12 ◼ ► that i see why actually why are you pitting us against each other again so soon i'm not down on
00:48:17 ◼ ► it i just don't think it's as as important to me as other things that i like about the cheaper
00:48:23 ◼ ► iphone 13 and so i i'm you know i don't think it's i remember you being a hater a big hater of
00:48:29 ◼ ► promotion and saying that it was useless and you don't you're thinking of stephen hackett
00:48:34 ◼ ► i so uh which now that i've used all of these things is it more noticeable and important on ipad
00:48:42 ◼ ► or iphone i say ipad for two reasons uh one of which is i feel it's more noticeable on ipad i just
00:48:49 ◼ ► do and because there's more dots moving around at 120 and it's also more important because of the
00:48:55 ◼ ► apple pencil because it allows the refresh rate to really crank up and the apple pencil to see more
00:48:59 ◼ ► real and of course the iphone doesn't support the apple pencil so um that's what i have to say but
00:49:05 ◼ ► again it's a nice feature on the phone too it's nice right mike it's nice it's very nice i think
00:49:12 ◼ ► it's more noticeable on the iphone than the ipad to a significant degree i've been wondering about
00:49:18 ◼ ► this i've been thinking a lot about so i have some friends contact me too and they're like
00:49:22 ◼ ► some agree with you and some agree with me about where it's more noticeable and i'm wondering like
00:49:27 ◼ ► if it's a eyesight difference i don't think so because i noticed it on the ipad right and i do
00:49:33 ◼ ► know that it's there it's not like i don't on the ipad like i don't and it's not like i don't notice
00:49:37 ◼ ► it i don't think it's an eyesight difference i think it is literally and i said this last week
00:49:42 ◼ ► but i'm going to say it again i think it's literally how you use your iphone difference
00:49:47 ◼ ► and i notice it everywhere on my iphone in ways i don't notice it on my ipad like opening a folder
00:49:53 ◼ ► of apps yeah like opening the lock screen feels like different i don't know what i don't know
00:50:00 ◼ ► i i wish someone could tell us why people see it differently but like for example like my wife
00:50:06 ◼ ► adena she doesn't even notice it all right we've gone through it i i notice it i just don't think
00:50:13 ◼ ► that there there is enough reason especially somebody coming from the mini where i have no
00:50:18 ◼ ► option i'm gonna have to get a bigger heavier phone in order to get the increased refresh rate
00:50:23 ◼ ► i notice the increased refresh rate it is not remotely important enough to me to spend more
00:50:30 ◼ ► money and get a bigger phone for it it's nice i i keep saying it's nice and nice doesn't mean i
00:50:35 ◼ ► don't notice it nice means i just don't i'm not saying it's that important you don't notice it
00:50:39 ◼ ► i'm like i think that there is like a spectrum between people like i know people that don't see
00:50:44 ◼ ► it and then i like really see it on the iphone and you see it but don't see it as but don't care
00:50:50 ◼ ► it's like a different equation but for me it's like oh my iphone's incredible now and it's so
00:50:56 ◼ ► strange i will say like we've asked this question i do i definitely notice that the ipad mini doesn't
00:51:04 ◼ ► have it even in like when compared to my ipad but with my ipad pro i feel like i don't see it as
00:51:11 ◼ ► prominently as i do on my iphone i don't know how this can be answered but i think that there is just
00:51:18 ◼ ► a people are different i guess and they see things differently and they prioritize things differently
00:51:25 ◼ ► for themselves so as you we have no real answer for your question because we can't we we cannot
00:51:31 ◼ ► give any kind of agreement and i also feel like no the answer is clearly that it's it's more
00:51:36 ◼ ► important on the ipad because of the apple pencil and it's no no because because it doesn't it's not
00:51:42 ◼ ► 120 hertz on the apple pencil anyway and app devices that um don't do promotions still have high
00:51:51 ◼ ► latency for the screen they use they use the 120 hertz to um be able to keep a closer track on
00:52:00 ◼ ► and even fake it on the head of the pencil so it looks like your pencil sketch is moving exactly
00:52:07 ◼ ► with your motions it's like one of the tricks that they do even though they're not registering
00:52:16 ◼ ► i picked the question i knew it was going to do this uh cj asks this was a theory i shared
00:52:23 ◼ ► privately with some friends too and i want to see what you think about this do you think that the
00:52:28 ◼ ► color names of midnight and starlight could have come from the rumored astrophotography mode for
00:52:34 ◼ ► the iphone 13 that didn't materialize this year no you just think it was going to be this way anyway
00:52:40 ◼ ► yes space they have space gray i mean this this was why i didn't this is why i didn't publicly
00:52:45 ◼ ► share this because it's like well there is a precedent for like space and color being a thing
00:52:50 ◼ ► for apple but it is interesting that the year they just they introduced these two new names
00:52:55 ◼ ► was a year that they were expected to have some new astrophotography mode which i don't really
00:52:59 ◼ ► know why that is an important feature to add to the camera anyway um like i still suck in mkbhd
00:53:07 ◼ ► his view review i think for the iphone 13 pro like he referenced you know the iphone still doesn't
00:53:12 ◼ ► have an astrophotography mode but i can still see the stars when i use night mode and it made
00:53:17 ◼ ► me wonder like why do why do you need an astrophotography mode anyway like i don't know if
00:53:25 ◼ ► i get it you're a space guy i don't i don't know i mean it would just be a different way of tuning
00:53:30 ◼ ► the dark the you know night mode in order to focus on um the stuff that's in the sky and make sure
00:53:37 ◼ ► that it comes out better and you know longer i mean it would just be a a tuned mode just for that
00:53:43 ◼ ► i don't know why you would need that but yeah i don't i don't know because google has it maybe
00:53:48 ◼ ► the answer i don't know i don't know if samsung have it but i know google do right so like i don't
00:53:52 ◼ ► know if this is like a thing that's in a lot of phones but i don't particularly feel like i need
00:53:56 ◼ ► it in my iphone maybe i just don't care about space enough maybe steven asked jason why did you
00:54:02 ◼ ► upgrade to the iphone 13 mini we covered that we ended up covering this in in upgrade plus last
00:54:07 ◼ ► week which uh it's because we forgot but the short version of it is that i one i want to support the
00:54:15 ◼ ► iphone mini and i know that it's not going to make any difference for next year but like all the
00:54:20 ◼ ► rumors are that it's going away so i want to spend money on it because i want to have uh i want it to
00:54:26 ◼ ► be a sale and i also want to spend money on it because i know that there probably won't be one
00:54:31 ◼ ► next year which means that i want the latest and greatest mini in order for it to fit uh in my hand
00:54:38 ◼ ► and be useful even if i have to soldier on without an iphone 14 something next year because they
00:54:45 ◼ ► aren't going to make one this size and so i kind of just want to have as much runway for the iphone
00:54:51 ◼ ► 13 mini as possible that's basically the reason for it if uh if steven's searching for a reason
00:54:56 ◼ ► to upgrade over the iphone 12 mini you know again year-to-year upgrades are pretty small so there's
00:55:04 ◼ ► not a great reason to do that battery the battery life is going to be better sure and then you know
00:55:10 ◼ ► the camera's a little bit better and all that all that is true um but you know my thinking is much
00:55:15 ◼ ► more about the fact that there's not going to be one next year and so i want this now if you want
00:55:20 ◼ ► if you've got a honestly if you really love the mini and you've got a 12 mini your strategy could
00:55:25 ◼ ► be wait till next year see what they announce and if you are confirmed that you really just want to
00:55:32 ◼ ► stick with the mini maybe they'll cut the price on the iphone 13 mini and you can buy it next year
00:55:36 ◼ ► for a reduced price um but that's that's sort of my thinking is i just i love the mini size and i
00:55:43 ◼ ► want to have one that is a mind to have and to hold uh even richer and poorer for larger
00:55:50 ◼ ► and larger and larger phones i can avoid those and just stick with my little buddy i actually have a
00:55:58 ◼ ► related question which i think could be uh interesting because we're talking about like maybe
00:56:04 ◼ ► it going away she wants from john and john asks do you think there will be a third gen iphone se and
00:56:10 ◼ ► what form factor do you think it will have um well yeah i think that there will be and i think that
00:56:17 ◼ ► it'll be the iphone 13 mini form factor in two years i think that's what it'll be that's this is
00:56:22 ◼ ► what i wanted to ask this because i know you've mentioned that and i wanted to see if that stays
00:56:26 ◼ ► the same for you so you think that the size kind of the physical size of the iphone 13 mini the
00:56:33 ◼ ► mini sized phone could be the future of the se phone because right now it's the iphone 8 right
00:56:41 ◼ ► it's basically the iphone se uh yeah so you think it could become the iphone mini in the future
00:56:48 ◼ ► i it's i i realize that this is wish casting but um that's my hope is that the that the mini will
00:56:54 ◼ ► write again in some form sometime somewhere and that's my best guess if they did do that
00:57:01 ◼ ► would you go to the se do you think uh let's see what my mood is probably not i i'm probably
00:57:07 ◼ ► resigned to the fact that if apple makes a dramatically better phone um which a two years
00:57:15 ◼ ► from now model will be dramatically better undoubtedly that at some point i'm just gonna
00:57:19 ◼ ► have to give up but um i'm gonna prolong it as long as i can and we'll see we'll see it's possible
00:57:28 ◼ ► that they've led me off the beaten track and now i'm stuck with these small phones because i like
00:57:33 ◼ ► them so much or it's possible that i'll i'll look over to the other side of the fence and realize
00:57:37 ◼ ► the grass is greener and refreshed more quickly and jump over there but i'm not there this year
00:57:42 ◼ ► yeah i'm not convinced that se means small phone because i'm not either but sometimes but it can be
00:57:53 ◼ ► maybe like because they moved to the eight when they brought like the eight sides and they know
00:57:58 ◼ ► where they were coming out with the mini right so there was always going to be a small phone in the
00:58:03 ◼ ► lineup because the previous se was the small phone right then the se got bigger when they introduced
00:58:09 ◼ ► a mini phone so if the mini is going to go away maybe the se becomes the small phone again right
00:58:16 ◼ ► which would lend to this discussion this potential because maybe it's like we always want to have a
00:58:22 ◼ ► small phone but we'll just decide where it lands and how much we charge for it so maybe the next
00:58:28 ◼ ► se as you say could be in that mini form factor so at least that option is there for people that
00:58:34 ◼ ► don't care about anything other than size yeah i think the question is what's apple's long-term
00:58:40 ◼ ► kind of marketing project in terms of the old phones because apple do you need an se at all
00:58:48 ◼ ► when you've got old phones and the answer is no unless there's something about an older phone
00:58:54 ◼ ► model that you want to take off the price list that makes it special and not serving the need
00:59:00 ◼ ► of an old phone and that's the one shot that the mini size has is that they look at their line of
00:59:08 ◼ ► iphone 15s and they say well we can't really keep or the 16s we can't really keep the 13 mini around
00:59:16 ◼ ► anymore and we've got other phones that are cheap but if we get rid of this one we're losing that
00:59:23 ◼ ► category entirely maybe we need to keep it around but we gotta upgrade the guts of it so we'll call
00:59:29 ◼ ► the se that would be the thought process right because i think that's really what the iphone se
00:59:33 ◼ ► truly is is a model type that they want to keep around for whatever reason because otherwise it's
00:59:40 ◼ ► not available anymore but they can't keep the old model around any longer so they have to upgrade it
00:59:45 ◼ ► so they give it this not a name iphone se in order to do a revised version of it that they can keep
00:59:52 ◼ ► in the price list and that might be i'm not convinced that it's size i'm also not convinced
00:59:58 ◼ ► that it's price it may really just be a placeholder for a device we want to keep selling but we can't
01:00:06 ◼ ► sell that one anymore you know when we're talking when you're talking about that i was thinking about
01:00:10 ◼ ► like you know maybe one of the things they decided they wanted to keep around was a phone that has
01:00:15 ◼ ► touch id on it right for people right and it just made me think over the last uh few days i've been
01:00:22 ◼ ► noticing that i've been leaving my thumb on the lock button of my iphone to unlock it because i've
01:00:30 ◼ ► been getting used to the ipad yeah so i've been unlocking my phone with the button and leaving my
01:00:37 ◼ ► thumb on the button even though the phone's now unlocked because there's something in my brain
01:00:41 ◼ ► that's telling me that that's how i unlock my phone because that's how i look my ipad my brain's
01:00:47 ◼ ► silly very moldable uh talking about the ipad mini this question comes from carl how do your
01:00:54 ◼ ► use cases for the ipad mini differ from those of your iphone if both are available to you in a given
01:01:00 ◼ ► situation what would make you pick up one over the other this is a secondary sub question that i'll
01:01:08 ◼ ► ask of you is are you still actually using the ipad mini i am okay and it has already survived
01:01:15 ◼ ► longer than the last ipad mini when i tried to integrate it okay right because i want i got an
01:01:19 ◼ ► ipad mini last time and i was like i'm gonna i'm gonna get it out of the box after i'd done the
01:01:24 ◼ ► review i was like oh i hear all these people on podcasts i listen to talking about using the ipad
01:01:27 ◼ ► mini as a reader i'm gonna get out of the box i lasted no time at all and i'm like this sucks
01:01:32 ◼ ► and it was gone and that has not happened this time um i'm forcing myself to do it because
01:01:38 ◼ ► i write about and talk about this stuff right so i'm forcing myself to use it in part to have that
01:01:45 ◼ ► experience that's one of the great benefits of getting a review unit especially beyond the review
01:01:50 ◼ ► is that i also get to then spend some extended time with it afterward and keep using it and have
01:01:55 ◼ ► that personal experience so yes in fact this morning i decided i was going to read um my
01:02:04 ◼ ► stuff that i read in the morning in bed while i'm drinking tea and having breakfast with the mini
01:02:10 ◼ ► instead of my big ipad and so it was mini in vertical orientation and netnewswire instead of
01:02:17 ◼ ► having the little sidebar the sidebar was closed so that i could have a good reading area and i
01:02:22 ◼ ► was just sort of swiping through the items because you can also do that um and so it was a little bit
01:02:27 ◼ ► different and i uh the other day i was outside it was a nice really warm day and i took a drink out
01:02:34 ◼ ► to to our hammock in the backyard and i sat in the hammock with the ipad mini wow and i read and uh
01:02:40 ◼ ► it's delightful and and and so my answer for carl would be i because i prefer the ipad in general
01:02:58 ◼ ► mostly because if both are available to me i'm at home and why not use the nice big screen even of
01:03:09 ◼ ► the mini compared to the especially the iphone mini but even the ipad even the pro max the screen is
01:03:16 ◼ ► not as not nearly as big as the ipad mini so if i'm in a scenario where i'm at home and i have a
01:03:21 ◼ ► ipad available to me i'm going to choose the ipad over the iphone that's just me we're not massively
01:03:26 ◼ ► different here really but oh i was i had a baseball game on and picture in picture while
01:03:30 ◼ ► i was reading in the hammock by the way that's you could do that on an iphone but you don't
01:03:36 ◼ ► don't do that it's much nicer with the i mean this is like the thing for me more than anything
01:03:42 ◼ ► i think is ipad os because i have flexibility with my app experiences that i don't have on my iphone
01:03:51 ◼ ► so like whilst you know split-screen multitasking and slide over is a much more cramped experience
01:03:57 ◼ ► on the mini it's possible on the mini right which is i can't do any of these things on my iphone
01:04:03 ◼ ► so if like i'm looking at my like i'm looking at some email or whatever and i want to bring up my
01:04:08 ◼ ► calendar i can just do that right i can just bring up my calendar and now i have them both on screen
01:04:14 ◼ ► together i'm using my iphone i'm going backwards and forwards backwards and forwards from app to
01:04:18 ◼ ► app and so like i just have more available to me even if it's tiny it's still there i can still see
01:04:26 ◼ ► it um it's better for video like if i'm watching video in general like has louder speakers it has
01:04:31 ◼ ► a bigger screen right like i just i know the quality of the screen isn't as good right like
01:04:36 ◼ ► i get that but that's not really what if i'm watching a video on a small device i'm not looking
01:04:43 ◼ ► for the best quality right like i bigger is better rather than like black levels you think it's not
01:04:51 ◼ ► you know sorry martin scorsese i guess i don't know uh screens as well martin scorsese doesn't
01:04:56 ◼ ► want you watching his movies on your phone either that's true and to be honest i don't i would
01:05:01 ◼ ► prefer not to watch a martin scorsese movie on my phone right like you know like marty i agree but
01:05:07 ◼ ► sometimes what am i going to do anyway uh the screen provides a better reading experience in
01:05:14 ◼ ► general right more information on the page and you benefit from applications being laid out differently
01:05:22 ◼ ► on ipad than on a phone so the information density is very different the way that things are laid out
01:05:30 ◼ ► is very different so like i just think for basically pretty much anything similar to you that
01:05:35 ◼ ► i would want to do when i'm at home the ipad mini is a better option than my phone like it's for
01:05:42 ◼ ► give me something and it's better right like it's better for messaging it's better for social media
01:05:47 ◼ ► or you know it's better for video like it's just it's for me it's just always a better experience
01:05:52 ◼ ► and i've always felt that way about the ipad but the ipad mini specifically benefits from its
01:05:58 ◼ ► portability and ease of use over any of the other ipad models because it's so easy to hold and get
01:06:05 ◼ ► like just to take advantage of so it's fantastic yeah i agree i'm i'm jason i love my ipad mini so
01:06:12 ◼ ► much i love it so much i i really i really love my iphone my ipad mini that is my favorite product
01:06:20 ◼ ► that apple's released this year so if i think about us as as not normal people which is probably
01:06:26 ◼ ► how i should think about us always weird people we're even abnormal within an abnormal group
01:06:32 ◼ ► yeah right so my point is no reasonable person sorry i'm one of you if you feel offended by this
01:06:41 ◼ ► i'm also insulting myself i guess no reasonable person is going to say well what i do is i have
01:06:46 ◼ ► my ipad pro for certain tasks and my ipad mini for certain tasks and my laptop for certain tests and
01:06:50 ◼ ► my desktop computer right your regular person is going to have to choose so me having the different
01:06:57 ◼ ► size ipads to choose from is is not a common i would say use case but i will say this if you're
01:07:03 ◼ ► one of those people and i've noticed some people popping out of the woodwork who who i i've
01:07:08 ◼ ► identified as like ah you're this person like stephen hackett is this person if you're one of
01:07:12 ◼ ► these people who's like i want to use the ipad and i like the ipad but i don't like it that much right
01:07:19 ◼ ► like if i want to do all this other stuff that the ipad can do you know i'm over here editing
01:07:25 ◼ ► podcasts on it but like some people are just like yeah i'll use my mac for that i don't want to i
01:07:30 ◼ ► don't want to do that for the ipad i like the ipad but i don't use it and i think i actually have a
01:07:34 ◼ ► theory and i this comes from observing my mother um where she was she had netflix for a while and
01:07:40 ◼ ► she kept talking about how she wasn't using it enough and so then she canceled it and it's it's
01:07:46 ◼ ► a little bit like the new yorker issue where people um cancel the new yorker not because they
01:07:50 ◼ ► don't like what they read in it but because they don't read all of it and the issues pile up and so
01:07:54 ◼ ► then they cancel it because they don't like the burden it's like a burden of i'm sure there's a
01:07:58 ◼ ► business school term for it that somebody wrote a book and made a billion dollars uh selling their
01:08:02 ◼ ► book about it it's the burden of unused portions of your subscription offering or your your device
01:08:10 ◼ ► or whatever it is it's the burden of unused portions and i've noticed that a lot of people
01:08:16 ◼ ► feel that way about the ipad that a lot of people are like yeah i like the ipad but i like it for
01:08:22 ◼ ► like this really simple stuff and i know you can edit podcasts with it and i know that you can do
01:08:28 ◼ ► shortcuts and i know you can do spreadsheets and but i all i really want to do is like read on it
01:08:34 ◼ ► and they and it like makes the ipad feel worse because they're not using it to its fullest
01:08:41 ◼ ► i would argue that that's irrational but i also understand humans are irrational so what i find
01:08:48 ◼ ► with the ipad mini is it almost gives those people license to like an ipad without it having to be
01:08:56 ◼ ► a computer replacement right it gives them a little bit more freedom to be like this is a
01:09:02 ◼ ► great little reading device and i'm never going to do all those productivity things that federico
01:09:06 ◼ ► writes about on the ipad pro with this thing even though you could i'm not going to and it's okay
01:09:12 ◼ ► because it's just a little ipad mini and i use it for reading and isn't it nice and i think that's
01:09:17 ◼ ► great because yes to all of that like if you're not somebody who is like super sold on the ipad
01:09:22 ◼ ► lifestyle but does has tried an ipad and it's like yeah i like it it's nice but i i'm never going to
01:09:26 ◼ ► use it for all the things that it can be used for so you know what is it what good is it to me here's
01:09:32 ◼ ► your answer which is i think for most people having an ipad mini that you could just use in
01:09:38 ◼ ► the morning or wherever your wind down time is to read a book or look at your rss feeds or check
01:09:46 ◼ ► that newspaper app or scroll through doom scroll through twitter if you want to whatever it can do
01:09:52 ◼ ► all of those things and is super light and nice and easy to hold and pleasant to look at and that
01:09:59 ◼ ► folio case is really great on it and i like i can't say a bad thing about it it will also it
01:10:05 ◼ ► will do everything that the pro ipad users want it to do it actually does all those things too
01:10:12 ◼ ► but you don't have to worry about it like don't feel bad about it just uh read your books and read
01:10:17 ◼ ► your newspapers and and be happy and that like that's why i think it really hits the sweet spot
01:10:22 ◼ ► for all these people who maybe feel like they're not proper ipad users in a way and that they're
01:10:28 ◼ ► wasting the ipad's potential i feel like the ipad mini maybe just takes the burden off a little bit
01:10:33 ◼ ► anyway that's my theory i love it this is the i love that that that whole line this is the best
01:10:38 ◼ ► content consumption ipad yeah and you should like feel no guilt about it right feel no guilt you
01:10:44 ◼ ► could do stuff if you want you can answer your emails like you can have it i would actually say
01:10:49 ◼ ► that one of my issues with it and actually one of the reasons why i think focus mode is such a good
01:10:53 ◼ ► idea on the ipad mini is the reason i use like a kindle is because i don't get push notifications
01:10:59 ◼ ► i can't switch over to twitter all i have to do is read the one problem with the ipad mini is the ipad
01:11:04 ◼ ► is so capable that you can do all this other stuff with it and i would actually recommend that if you
01:11:11 ◼ ► use one of these things resist temptation when possible turn off notifications go into a focus
01:11:17 ◼ ► mode if you need to don't install all the apps that you normally do and and make it a simpler
01:11:22 ◼ ► device because it can be as complex as you want it to be it can be as complex as an ipad pro or your
01:11:27 ◼ ► phone it doesn't have to be and i think maybe it's better if it's not this episode is brought to you
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01:13:13 ◼ ► and all every layer of m should we do more #askupgrade questions there you go i just wanted
01:13:18 ◼ ► to give you the opportunity to get some thank you thank you know we got a second set of lasers now
01:13:22 ◼ ► it's just how it has to be yeah snape asked how long did it take for downstream to go from idea
01:13:28 ◼ ► to reality huh okay well the story starts when we did the christmas carol episode of upgrade
01:13:34 ◼ ► i guess when fedorico as the ghost of of the future which at some point we're going to need
01:13:47 ◼ ► would become its own podcast and i have to say that planted a seed with me i'm like will it
01:13:55 ◼ ► might it and at the time it didn't make sense i was resistant of it to be to be fair i didn't want
01:14:01 ◼ ► to do that um yeah i like i like upstream as part of this show and you'd floated it with me a couple
01:14:08 ◼ ► of times and we'd spoken about it a few times because people had always mentioned it or asked
01:14:11 ◼ ► for it or suggested it or whatever and i was very much that i wanted to keep it as part of upgrade
01:14:18 ◼ ► right and and it did make sense so a couple of things happened one is that i stopped doing tv
01:14:24 ◼ ► talk machine because tim goodman retired from tv criticism got a development deal to write in
01:14:29 ◼ ► scripts maybe he'll make a tv show someday if they buy his scripts we'll see um but that took me it
01:14:37 ◼ ► meant that i wasn't talking about it weekly with tim and we talk about it some um but i felt like
01:14:43 ◼ ► there was potential for something else and to fill that that hole the the tv talk machine sized hole
01:14:49 ◼ ► in my heart um so i just kind of like left it out there and then um julia so a couple of things
01:14:59 ◼ ► happened a couple of people changed jobs who were people that i've been watching for a while and
01:15:04 ◼ ► thinking about talking you know tv on and and streaming on podcast with and um one of them was
01:15:11 ◼ ► julia who left she went from from vox to ign and then she went to parrot analytics and i had that
01:15:18 ◼ ► thought of like oh she's kind of a free agent analyst now doesn't have a podcast we had that
01:15:25 ◼ ► we had that guest slot where you were going to be gone and did i consider that kind of a test of
01:15:31 ◼ ► whether we could do a podcast about that together yes i did i absolutely thought um this would be a
01:15:38 ◼ ► great episode of upgrade and we would see if it was uh if it worked out maybe we would explore
01:15:42 ◼ ► further and i thought it went really well so then we recorded a zero episode and got some podcast
01:15:47 ◼ ► art and here we are um but it was i was keeping my eye on it but i was also not gonna strike and
01:15:52 ◼ ► then you and i talked about it too because i mean it is kind of a bummer like you're like you know
01:15:57 ◼ ► you would like first off you would like to be involved but the challenge is you are a very busy
01:16:01 ◼ ► person yes i mean i'm a busy person too but i i really do feel like i have held this slot open
01:16:06 ◼ ► since tvtm ended last year where i have room for another podcast project and i did the 20 max
01:16:13 ◼ ► project last year so it's really that slot and more so you know was filled but this year i've
01:16:18 ◼ ► been thinking like i have room for this particular project if it ever works out and so you and i
01:16:25 ◼ ► talked about it and you know i'm still hoping that you can be involved with downstream in some way
01:16:31 ◼ ► whether it's replacing me sometimes or guesting or whatever i i would like to keep you involved
01:16:37 ◼ ► but being having you involved in like every episode is not practical for you and it doesn't
01:16:41 ◼ ► really make sense you you you you when you had the like you like were confident on the idea you
01:16:48 ◼ ► brought it to me and we spoke about it and it hurt me because i want to do it yeah like this is a
01:16:55 ◼ ► show that like it's a thing that i really care about especially talking to a new person who i
01:17:00 ◼ ► really respect and obviously jason too i love jason i'm not a new person not a new person just
01:17:06 ◼ ► oh i was gonna say an old person i respect but i don't mean that either i do respect you straighten
01:17:12 ◼ ► up sunny but it was i made a promise to myself that i wasn't going to start new shows yeah i
01:17:19 ◼ ► already do too many i didn't i didn't also want to be the devil on your shoulder being like
01:17:24 ◼ ► another podcast mike another podcast and i didn't want to i didn't want to be that but i'm leaving
01:17:29 ◼ ► the door open because um i i would love for you to be involved as the show goes on even if it is
01:17:35 ◼ ► just sort of guesting or guest hosting um or stuff like that will you because i do know you are
01:17:40 ◼ ► enthusiastic about this but to make another commitment for another show um was not something
01:17:45 ◼ ► you should do and julia is great like i've been i've been watching her uh writing and tweeting
01:17:50 ◼ ► and stuff for years now and i've thought that it's all really great stuff and in and uh and i'm hoping
01:17:56 ◼ ► we'll have some other guests and stuff on as the show goes too because there's there's a few people
01:17:59 ◼ ► out there who i keep thinking are like just so smart about this stuff and i want to um this is a
01:18:04 ◼ ► show that i want to listen to right and so like tv talk machine which literally i revived because i
01:18:11 ◼ ► wanted it back and i was like tim uh they're not having to do a podcast at the hollywood reporter
01:18:17 ◼ ► could we bring the tv talk machine back and he's like yeah sure if you do all the work and just
01:18:22 ◼ ► i'll just talk and i said i can make that happen so we did it for a few years and it was great so
01:18:27 ◼ ► um so yeah this is that's the that's the story um it depends on how you want to uh frame it
01:18:34 ◼ ► but i would say it wasn't really real until i was scheduling that guest episode with mike out
01:18:41 ◼ ► and i thought actually this would be a really great subject and if it goes well maybe that's
01:18:46 ◼ ► a podcast and it did go well and it is a podcast and hopefully it will go on from here a fanatical
01:18:59 ◼ ► or even as a companion to a paper product this is the thing that i sent to you and i said mike i
01:19:05 ◼ ► want us to cover this one i don't know if it was already in our show doc or not but i i thought
01:19:09 ◼ ► i want to hear what mike says about this this is a mike question i i was very excited to because i
01:19:14 ◼ ► find this fascinating right like where does it something like an ipad mini does it fit in does
01:19:18 ◼ ► it replace does it augment is it not is it out of bounds and not the right thing at all i i and i
01:19:24 ◼ ► don't know because i don't i don't care about this stuff and i know you do so i want to know what you
01:19:28 ◼ ► think i could see this being an option for people i i think people that specifically use an ipad and
01:19:36 ◼ ► apple pencil for a note-taking device could find the ipad mini to be a good thing however i do
01:19:45 ◼ ► i am maybe a little worried or concerned some people that they see this product and they see
01:20:04 ◼ ► typical notebook size that kind of size the a5 ish size because paper standards are a whole other
01:20:11 ◼ ► thing but the a5 ish size is approximately 148 by 210 millimeters right that's your dimensions
01:20:19 ◼ ► the ipad mini's screen is 116 by 176 millimeters so while that might not seem like a ton it's a
01:20:31 ◼ ► it's a pretty big difference so you're looking at like say the width i find is the hardest part so
01:20:39 ◼ ► you're looking at the ipad mini being 11.6 centimeters to an a5 notebook being 14.8 centimeters
01:20:46 ◼ ► so i found it for myself to be a little cramped for handwriting in portrait which is how i would
01:20:51 ◼ ► typically want to take notes on the device anyway so i don't know for me this would not be something
01:21:00 ◼ ► that i would use as a replacement for a paper journal or a planner it could be very good for
01:21:07 ◼ ► just general note-taking stuff you know like fire up an app like notability i'm on a meeting or a
01:21:12 ◼ ► call i could take notes on it and i would do i do this on my other ipads so i you know i found it to
01:21:17 ◼ ► be cramped but your mileage may vary there but in general i am a well i am a person who makes a paper
01:21:25 ◼ ► journal product it's called the theme system in case you're unaware of this it's available at
01:21:30 ◼ ► cortexmerch.com it's a product that me and cgb gray created together based around and it's like
01:21:35 ◼ ► a system and a product so like the idea of yearly themes turning that into something that you live
01:21:41 ◼ ► your life by and creating a journal product that can help you enforce this idea i have never wanted
01:21:47 ◼ ► to journal on an ipad anyway like i think that there is something important in sitting down with
01:21:53 ◼ ► pen and paper and writing out my thoughts that way the tactility of it feels important to me it's like
01:21:58 ◼ ► a daily ritual kind of thing and using an ipad using any kind of digital device even typing it
01:22:03 ◼ ► just doesn't feel the same and i expect i expect this is a similar feeling to people say for
01:22:10 ◼ ► example who prefer to read paper books to digital books right that like there's just a thing about
01:22:16 ◼ ► reading on the book which is better than reading on the screen for people that because it's beyond
01:22:22 ◼ ► the information it's you know the tactility of it and there's all sorts of other reasons for it
01:22:26 ◼ ► and i i don't you know i almost entirely read on ebooks now but i get it i get it i get why people
01:22:33 ◼ ► feel that way and honestly i get that way i get that tactility for things that that matter if that
01:22:41 ◼ ► makes any sense like the books that i buy are like i buy them because they're big or because they're
01:22:46 ◼ ► beautiful and color printed and you wanna you wanna leaf through them like i don't buy paperbacks
01:22:53 ◼ ► and stuff because the all the there's no there's no specialness about that that it's just words on
01:23:01 ◼ ► a page and at that point it might as well be words on a screen for me and i feel like if you're going
01:23:06 ◼ ► to go to the trouble of doing something like journaling it isn't just about the words on the
01:23:11 ◼ ► page right it's about more than that and and that tips it over into wanting something more and
01:23:16 ◼ ► different i i also there's utility that i would throw in here which is there's different kinds of
01:23:23 ◼ ► utility obviously but i was thinking about like if you're taking notes in a class and you really
01:23:29 ◼ ► prefer and you remember better taking notes longhand the utility of using the ipad is that
01:23:37 ◼ ► it's going to scan what you write and make it searchable and you can keep all those things
01:23:43 ◼ ► searchable and available to you on all your devices and syncable right there's lots of utility in doing
01:23:48 ◼ ► that so if your ultimate goal is to have this stuff come out of your pen but also be findable
01:23:54 ◼ ► and reachable as you're going through your course or future courses and you know your whole area of
01:24:00 ◼ ► study there's a utility to using an ipad if what you're doing is journaling and the process of it
01:24:07 ◼ ► is part of the utility and you're not really needing to go back and do a full text search
01:24:14 ◼ ► of your journaling then it you know it falls on the other side of it it's like that's why i don't
01:24:22 ◼ ► have a paper to-do list because i want my tasks to be available to me everywhere like i don't have
01:24:29 ◼ ► a paper calendar i want my calendar appointments to be available to me everywhere and different
01:24:36 ◼ ► people do these things in different ways like for example there are some some meetings that i'm on
01:24:41 ◼ ► i'll just use a pad in front of me and just write some stuff down but if it's a big meeting where i
01:24:45 ◼ ► know i'm going to need that information later i'll get my ipad and apple pencil and because now it's
01:24:51 ◼ ► it's in notes or it's in notability or whatever and it's searchable and like backed up and just
01:24:58 ◼ ► available to me on my iphone later on if i need to refer back to it or whatever you know i think
01:25:03 ◼ ► there's a there's a mode switching that's important and kate in the chat room made a good point that i
01:25:08 ◼ ► want to mention again too which is i don't okay i don't do this so i'm giving you a i'm giving you
01:25:15 ◼ ► advice about a thing i don't do but i would strongly advise that if you do use uh apple
01:25:21 ◼ ► pencil and an ipad to take notes that you just let it take notes as ink don't try to convert it to
01:25:29 ◼ ► text or anything like that because what you want to do is emulate putting it down on paper and what
01:25:35 ◼ ► happens in the background is the stuff that is in ink is searchable and you skip the step where it
01:25:42 ◼ ► it makes mistakes and turns your what you wrote into the wrong word and then you have to fix it
01:25:46 ◼ ► you don't want to ever break your thought process by doing that and the beauty about searchability
01:25:51 ◼ ► and the way apple does searchability of handwritten text and i know i've mentioned this before but
01:25:55 ◼ ► i'll throw it in there again all of these ocr engines what they do is they come up with a list
01:26:00 ◼ ► of words it might be and a percentage of what they of confidence and when you're writing and they
01:26:07 ◼ ► don't have to convert it if they have to convert it they have to pick one right and it might be the
01:26:10 ◼ ► wrong one if they don't have to convert it they index all the words it might be and when you do
01:26:16 ◼ ► a search you will find it uh and and so it's actually much better than you'd think to search
01:26:23 ◼ ► for handwritten text in a note than it is that the accuracy you get when you have it converting your
01:26:30 ◼ ► handwritten text to text if that makes sense yeah because it's not making it doesn't have to commit
01:26:35 ◼ ► to one set of words yeah exactly because you're not reading it it's just in the search index and
01:26:41 ◼ ► so the search index lies the search index has got well this could be um you know a bear or it could
01:26:48 ◼ ► be bore or it could be here or it could be fear or it could be near let's put them all in there
01:26:55 ◼ ► and then when you search for grizzly bear it will say well i've got this one it's grizzly and then
01:27:00 ◼ ► one of the things it could be is bear so it's a search result you can also make yourself laugh
01:27:06 ◼ ► if you've ever searched a bunch of handwritten stuff you search for a word and you find that
01:27:10 ◼ ► some stuff that's totally not that word that's because it was confused but uh anyway it's it's
01:27:16 ◼ ► good in that way and so i think that this stuff is is pretty pretty searchable and i think it's
01:27:20 ◼ ► pretty brilliant and even me even me mike who is not a fan of pens and paper if i were in college
01:27:29 ◼ ► today i think this is how i would take notes is apple pencil oh yeah written out because i think
01:27:35 ◼ ► that it's better for kind of brain focus and uh remembering things and thinking about things and
01:27:43 ◼ ► then having it all accessible later where i'm not having to rifle through a notebook somewhere love
01:27:48 ◼ ► it great idea all right next question comes from shah who asks do you think apple will ever release
01:27:54 ◼ ► an apple watch pro i mean it's a marketing question in some ways because they already make
01:28:01 ◼ ► high-end apple watches and they used to be called addition i don't think they could have called that
01:28:06 ◼ ► anymore i think really the question here is is apple ever going to make a mainstream set of apple
01:28:11 ◼ ► watches that are differentiated on core hardware features where they've got two different kinds
01:28:19 ◼ ► and the core hardware the naked robotic core hardware features are are different that there's
01:28:27 ◼ ► one that does more and if you would ask me this question in the early days of the iphone i would
01:28:33 ◼ ► have said no and obviously it did end up happening many years later so never say never but in the
01:28:39 ◼ ► short run i don't think that this is how they're going to differentiate now they may call something
01:28:43 ◼ ► a pro although that i don't think they will but they may but it feels to me much more likely that
01:28:49 ◼ ► what apple is going to do is focus on iterating on that core part and then how they market apple
01:28:56 ◼ ► watches is going to be about the wrapper that goes around it and pro and and simpler models
01:29:03 ◼ ► that are cheaper that are older or that are like an se kind of thing again that rather than it being
01:29:12 ◼ ► you know here are our two brand new watches and this one has more cores or something like i i just
01:29:18 ◼ ► i feel like the apple watch is much more of a widget where they'll just keep making a new
01:29:25 ◼ ► talked about here the idea of a super ruggedized version but the naked robotic core at the center
01:29:30 ◼ ► of it is going to just be that and if they make a super fancy one i feel like materials is the place
01:29:35 ◼ ► where they iterate they make nicer materials and give you nicer material options rather than it
01:29:40 ◼ ► being you know a slightly upgraded widget but the iphone got to the point where that it made sense
01:29:48 ◼ ► for them to iterate like this so it could happen on the watch but i don't see it anytime soon
01:30:02 ◼ ► oh yes um yes a very nice uh six color subscriber who is a web developer named dan ryan
01:30:14 ◼ ► um sent me a javascript that does this so it originally when the first safari 15 betas came
01:30:21 ◼ ► out i i put in a randomizer so every time you loaded the page the color at the top would be
01:30:27 ◼ ► at the top like in your browser chrome would be one of the six colors um because if you don't know
01:30:34 ◼ ► if you sit on six colors dot com on any page long enough and stare at the nav bar it cycles through
01:30:41 ◼ ► all the colors doesn't just it starts with green but it keeps going so dan ryan wrote a javascript
01:30:47 ◼ ► that basically looks at the nav bar color and matches it as the header color that's in the
01:30:54 ◼ ► browser chrome however there are some issues with this that that dan addressed so all thanks to dan
01:31:00 ◼ ► for doing this for free just for fun because he thought it was fun um it doesn't rotate when you're
01:31:06 ◼ ► not when the browser uh or when the menu bar for six colors is not available because if you can
01:31:13 ◼ ► imagine reading a long article and you're down on the page and your top of your safari window keeps
01:31:18 ◼ ► pulsating in different colors very disturbing so if if the pulsation of the of the menu bar is off
01:31:24 ◼ ► your screen it stops and then if it comes back in it snaps back to whatever color the the nav bar on
01:31:30 ◼ ► sixcolors.com is and then in dark mode it does it snaps to nearby colors it's not quite the same
01:31:38 ◼ ► behavior and that's mostly because a lot of these six colors colors conflict with the browser chrome
01:31:44 ◼ ► in dark mode and so it looks weird so it doesn't look i think it's best um experienced in light
01:31:51 ◼ ► mode yeah because i'm looking at it right now and it seems like i mean i don't know if this is the
01:31:56 ◼ ► intended it changes only but it doesn't have all the hues yeah that's that's because the rotating
01:32:03 ◼ ► through all the hues in dark mode it basically uh safari is like nope not going to use that color and
01:32:08 ◼ ► so it starts not colored and then it suddenly appears colored and the colors come and go in
01:32:13 ◼ ► weird ways so the dark mode behavior is totally different but in light mode it will actually match
01:32:18 ◼ ► if the website nav bar is visible um and it will stop if the website nav bar is not visible
01:32:27 ◼ ► there i've described an easter egg to you but it's an easter egg within an easter egg it's coloring
01:32:32 ◼ ► the scroll bar for me too is that expected it's it's whatever safari picks up when you set the
01:32:38 ◼ ► theme color of a page yeah and again you can turn this feature off but uh if it's on uh and you're
01:32:50 ◼ ► experiencing the rainbow might of the six colors nav bar you will also experience it in other places
01:33:00 ◼ ► i upgraded to uh safari 15 today on my mac i like some most of it what i'll say we know what i'll
01:33:11 ◼ ► say is i like some parts of it a lot and i'm not that bothered about the other parts right so like
01:33:17 ◼ ► i really like tab groups it's a feature i've enjoyed and i want them on my mac now so now i
01:33:22 ◼ ► have them and i've created a new one today which is really good which is like the four tabs i need
01:33:27 ◼ ► when i'm recording a show so i now have a recording tab group and that's really great that so it keeps
01:33:31 ◼ ► things nice and consistent for me nice the one thing i've noticed i don't know how to i've tried
01:33:37 ◼ ► to change this if people can give me the exact steps i need to do this great but now it seems
01:33:42 ◼ ► like now when i open window when i click a link somewhere saying messages it always opens a new
01:33:47 ◼ ► window in safari it's not opening things in new tabs it doesn't seem to and there's a setting which
01:33:53 ◼ ► you would think would fix this but it doesn't seem to which is open pages in tabs instead of windows
01:33:58 ◼ ► and if you say oh i click it to always and it says yes always create tabs and then i click a link and
01:34:05 ◼ ► it opens a new window huh i'm not really sure why it's doing that that that might be an unintended
01:34:11 ◼ ► functionality might be a bug and i think i can understand why it might be freaking out because
01:34:18 ◼ ► it's like which tab group do you want this window to this tab to appear in right i think that might
01:34:23 ◼ ► be why it's like right right but it could it could i don't know i mean it could also just be like
01:34:30 ◼ ► whatever tab group is currently open that's what i would want to do and then i can move it around as
01:34:34 ◼ ► i need right so like i don't know if i've got something weird going on here i'll keep my eye on
01:34:39 ◼ ► that um the other thing that i would like to be able to do i wanted to do this on my ipad i really
01:34:45 ◼ ► want to do it on my mac now is to be able to pin tabs within a tab group because you can pin tabs
01:34:52 ◼ ► in the standard non-tab group tabs right you know yes on mac on the mac i would like to be able to
01:35:00 ◼ ► pin tabs within a tab group so i love pin tabs i use them on this less ui and they stay fixed and
01:35:07 ◼ ► i'm glad they're still there i am very frustrated that they never made it their way to the ipad
01:35:14 ◼ ► and i am frustrated that they don't exist on in uh in the tab groups so i'm with you there i i
01:35:21 ◼ ► feel like apple has decided that pin tabs are not a thing and that they remain where they were
01:35:28 ◼ ► stuck on that one group in the on the mac but the fact that they did not migrate to pin tabs
01:35:34 ◼ ► or to uh to tab groups bums me out because i like them too i like them a lot and would like to see
01:35:41 ◼ ► them in different contexts and for those who don't know this is you you take a tab and you drag it
01:35:45 ◼ ► all the way to the left on the mac and it becomes well now it used to be a tab and now it's a little
01:35:50 ◼ ► box and it's sort of like a permanent tab that is always there for the site that you drag over there
01:35:58 ◼ ► and if you go to that tab and navigate within that site it actually stays within the little pin tab
01:36:02 ◼ ► and if you exit that site it opens a new tab with wherever you're going and i have three of those
01:36:08 ◼ ► and i use it all the time when you say when you describe it like that that's also kind of tab
01:36:13 ◼ ► groups right where it's like you can go wherever you want on that page you go on another device
01:36:18 ◼ ► and you're also there too like you know it's like it sinks the progress but i still want to do pin
01:36:23 ◼ ► tabs they're literally tabs i don't understand why apple can't sync them call have a little
01:36:30 ◼ ► identity this is this is a pinned tab and then also display them at least on the ipad but they
01:36:36 ◼ ► they they don't they never did and they still haven't um i upgraded my imac to moderate okay
01:36:45 ◼ ► i mean the moderate beta but it's it's going to be final yeah obviously i'm still in big
01:36:50 ◼ ► sir but safari 15 is now available on big sir and so my you know i've been using it all summer but
01:36:57 ◼ ► now it's on in my face at my main mac all the time and you know john grouper and i thoroughly
01:37:04 ◼ ► demolished um safari 15 tabs on the talk show last week um i hate them uh i really like tab groups
01:37:12 ◼ ► but i hate the design of the tabs and i and most of all like we can all get fussy about design and
01:37:19 ◼ ► say why do they like but the tabs were also use a usability issue where it was it used to be much
01:37:26 ◼ ► clearer which tab was the current tab and where you were you could at a glance determine where you
01:37:32 ◼ ► were and now it's not and that's what they have to fix we can you know they can solve it however
01:37:38 ◼ ► they want they don't have to necessarily revert it to the way it was but they gotta do better than it
01:37:43 ◼ ► currently exists because it's very very difficult to detect uh which tab is the active tab and the
01:37:50 ◼ ► fact that often it's the least readable tab that's the active tab that's just backward so that
01:37:57 ◼ ► frustrates me uh it still frustrates me and as i said to john last week it feels very much like they
01:38:04 ◼ ► they they stopped everything when all the criticism came in they fixed up the iphone as much as they
01:38:13 ◼ ► could and then they seem to just give up on making any more changes to the ipad and the mac
01:38:19 ◼ ► and it's a i don't understand it i don't understand what motivated them it feels very much like they
01:38:24 ◼ ► were motivated by something that they then gave up on but they kept all the changes that they made
01:38:28 ◼ ► anyway and i don't see any benefit to what they did here i think it makes tab groups worse and
01:38:36 ◼ ► tab groups are good so it should make them better anyway i don't like them oh i just want to just
01:38:43 ◼ ► like for just state for the record i'm fine with it like i don't like it but i'm not really mad
01:38:51 ◼ ► about it like i know a lot of people are really mad all of my friends are really mad about it
01:38:56 ◼ ► and i just like i'm like what i'm kind of like whatever about it like i'm not like oh everyone's
01:39:04 ◼ ► being uh silly for being so upset don't feel that right like because i agree with what you're saying
01:39:09 ◼ ► i agree with what everybody's saying but just me i'm kind of just like this is fine like i can deal
01:39:16 ◼ ► with this all right i mean i can we can deal with a lot of things but i look at it and i think if
01:39:20 ◼ ► i'm somebody who writes and talks about what apple does um i need to i need to be honest when i think
01:39:26 ◼ ► that apple has blown it and i agree i'm not saying anything you're saying or anyone else is saying is
01:39:32 ◼ ► wrong right like this is what like yeah i feel like you've thought that i'm getting worked up
01:39:36 ◼ ► worked up about it because you know it's annoying but doesn't rise to a past a certain level with
01:39:42 ◼ ► you i guess i think that's exactly it like if i i agree with what you're saying but this is just
01:39:48 ◼ ► it's just not something that i'm that fussed about i don't know why but like you know i
01:40:01 ◼ ► promotion on the iphone as everybody has different things that they get worked up about positively and
01:40:08 ◼ ► negatively and this is like for me i think one of the things that is really like that i'm willing to
01:40:13 ◼ ► accept it is i love the tab groups feature so much i'm willing to make a like to excuse a lot
01:40:18 ◼ ► of features in safari right like i'm just like fine whatever like yeah and for me i mean am i
01:40:23 ◼ ► am i using safari well yeah i am am i gonna run to chrome or something like that i'm not it's not
01:40:28 ◼ ► gonna happen but i i do think it's literally my job to call it out and say they should do better
01:40:36 ◼ ► so i'm you know that's i i i would love to see them tidy up a little bit like maybe you have
01:40:41 ◼ ► you have enough other people working in this business who care about it more than you that
01:40:44 ◼ ► you don't you know you're you're not the last line of safari defense yeah i don't feel like i need to
01:40:49 ◼ ► make a stand for something that i find mildly distasteful because everybody else is really
01:40:54 ◼ ► upset about it and doing the job you know yeah exactly you don't oh that happens to me all the
01:40:59 ◼ ► time mike i gotta say that happens to me all the time and i know you and i talk about it it's like
01:41:03 ◼ ► there are issues that come up and people some people step forward and they're like this shall
01:41:07 ◼ ► be my issue and i am going to and and you sit there and go oh i don't disagree but i don't want
01:41:14 ◼ ► this to be my issue and you just let it go you can't you can't get that way about it you gotta
01:41:20 ◼ ► you gotta pick your spots and so if i'm writing a mac os review which i totally am i have it on my
01:41:27 ◼ ► mind because i'm gonna rip them a new one it's it's you know i as a critic of operating systems
01:41:34 ◼ ► i have to do that like it's just it's my job to do that and so i'm in that mind but i totally
01:41:40 ◼ ► understand looking at and being like i agree with you but not my fight gonna let somebody else you
01:41:47 ◼ ► you all fight that one out uh good luck i i'm with you but way back here not not not literally right
01:41:55 ◼ ► on the front i'm not i don't need to be on the front line of this one i feel you but i'm i'm not
01:42:00 ◼ ► with you yeah and that's like this is like a thing in general right like people write in they're like
01:42:06 ◼ ► i can't believe you're not talking about this on the show and it's like it's because i a lot
01:42:12 ◼ ► it's like i just don't have something to say about it you know well and honestly the other this is
01:42:18 ◼ ► super meta now but honestly part of it is i don't want to do a topic an injustice by talking about
01:42:30 ◼ ► it when i know that it matters but i don't really care about it if that makes sense right i get that
01:42:36 ◼ ► like like if we bring something up on upgrade and dive into it because we feel we have to
01:42:44 ◼ ► and we don't care about it that much like what is that like why do we why do we waste our time why
01:42:52 ◼ ► do we waste the listeners time with something and so that's how i read a lot of those emails
01:42:56 ◼ ► which is like i can't believe you didn't talk about this it's like well we can't talk about
01:42:59 ◼ ► there's nobody talking about this jason and i i don't i don't know i can't believe it i can't
01:43:04 ◼ ► believe you didn't mention which is my least favorite thing that i ever hear about anything
01:43:09 ◼ ► i do on the internet i can't believe you didn't mention this thing that matters to me and like
01:43:13 ◼ ► well it didn't matter to me sorry it didn't so i i think there's that too which is you got to pick
01:43:18 ◼ ► your spots and pick things that you care about and maybe you can add to the conversation about so
01:43:22 ◼ ► uh thank you for listening to me rant about safari 15 tabs uh tab groups are nice i agree you know
01:43:28 ◼ ► what though the upgrade ends if you do have a thing that you want to hear us talk about and
01:43:34 ◼ ► we haven't spoken about it there's one place for it you can send in a tweet with the hashtag ask
01:43:38 ◼ ► upgrade or use question mark ask upgrade in the relay fm members discord this section does
01:43:43 ◼ ► actually do a lot for this for us because there will sometimes be a thing which i know is a thing
01:43:48 ◼ ► that people will bother about oh yeah bring it into ask upgrade because we can talk about it for
01:43:53 ◼ ► two minutes and move on like we don't need to make it like a big thing so this is a great segment for
01:43:59 ◼ ► that exact thing thank you for listening to this week's episode of upgrade and thank you to fitbaud
01:44:04 ◼ ► smile and squarespace for the support of the show if you would like ad-free longer episodes of
01:44:09 ◼ ► upgrade every single week just go to get upgrade plus dot com and you can sign up thank you to
01:44:13 ◼ ► everybody that supports the show by doing so if you want to find jason online you can go to
01:44:21 ◼ ► into the colors if that's something that you're into you can go to jace at jason l on twitter