372: A Wrestling Match With App Icons


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 372. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:14   Doordash, and LinkedIn Jobs. My name is Myke Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:18   Myke, how have we done 372 of these? How is that possible?

00:00:22   Just like the way we're doing it now, but-- One week at a time? Sometimes--

00:00:26   There you go. Sometimes two in a week if--

00:00:28   Yeah.

00:00:29   Apple surprises us?

00:00:30   But always one. Sometimes two.

00:00:32   Always one at a time. That's what Ted Lasso would tell you,

00:00:35   is you got to take them one at a time. Just one step at a time.

00:00:37   I have a #SnellTalk question for you. It comes from Jason, not you. Who asks--

00:00:41   Okay.

00:00:42   What may I have in my possession first, an Apple Watch Series 7 or a Playdate?

00:00:46   Well, it depends on your Playdate number, I suppose.

00:00:49   It does depend on the Playdate number. It does. But let's assume, for the sake of this

00:00:53   conversation, that Jason was in the first batch of Playdates.

00:00:56   Well, and I mean, I have a Playdate coming, and I'm going to buy an Apple Watch Series 7.

00:01:02   So this could be me. I'm going to say the Apple Watch,

00:01:07   mostly because Apple has experience shipping products to customers and Panic doesn't.

00:01:14   So I love Panic, and I'm looking forward to the Playdate. But if I had to choose between Apple

00:01:19   supply chain and Panics, I'm going to choose Apples.

00:01:23   I would say Apple too, because Panic is like by the end of the year, and Apple says fall.

00:01:30   Yeah.

00:01:31   So if we're assuming that they both can do what they say they're going to do,

00:01:36   I would still say that Apple seems like the easier bet there.

00:01:39   Yeah. But still, I'm looking forward to both.

00:01:42   Both.

00:01:42   Let me get both. Yeah.

00:01:43   I'm look-- I've made a decision, by the way, for the Apple Watch.

00:01:47   Yes. Oh, okay.

00:01:48   Gold stainless steel.

00:01:52   I feel like you were leaning that way even last week when we talked.

00:01:56   And gold Milanese.

00:01:57   Yeah?

00:01:59   Yeah.

00:01:59   I know you like that.

00:02:00   People sending me pictures of their gold and gold, and it looks real good.

00:02:03   Yeah, that's right. And then you put on the white coat, and what else is your outfit that

00:02:11   goes with that? There's a whole outfit that goes with that.

00:02:13   Federica came up with an outfit. I don't remember what it was,

00:02:15   but it was mostly white and a flowery shirt, I think.

00:02:17   A flowery shirt.

00:02:18   Yeah.

00:02:19   That's right.

00:02:19   But that's where I'm going to go. I'm going to go all gold, I think.

00:02:22   Okay.

00:02:22   But with maybe a blue sport loop, too. I think it'll look really good with the gold.

00:02:27   And I am leaning toward black titanium.

00:02:29   Mmm. Treat yourself, Jason Snell.

00:02:32   A little bit. Maybe so.

00:02:33   If you'd like to send in a #SnellTalk question to help us open the show,

00:02:38   just send out a tweet with the hashtag #SnellTalk

00:02:40   or use ?SnellTalk in the Relay FM members Discord.

00:02:43   I'd like to give everybody an update on our St. Jude campaign.

00:02:47   We just completed the third annual Podcastathon last Friday.

00:02:54   It was a Friday.

00:02:56   Thank you. I'm a little bit out of sorts today. I'll say that.

00:03:00   I'm still kind of getting back to life after having completed the Podcastathon,

00:03:05   then bringing Mega Studio back up to a working order.

00:03:07   And now we're here on Monday. I've kind of worked all through the weekend.

00:03:11   But it was an incredible success with the Podcastathon.

00:03:13   We raised, I think, over $110,000 during the Podcastathon itself.

00:03:18   And we have now passed as a community over $500,000.

00:03:23   That is half of a million dollars raised this year alone,

00:03:27   which is absolutely unbelievable.

00:03:30   Like an amount that I could have only jumped about

00:03:32   because September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:03:36   So we are working to support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

00:03:40   in finding cures and saving children.

00:03:42   For almost 60 years, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

00:03:45   has been on the front lines of research care and treatment of childhood cancer.

00:03:49   Treatments that are invented at St. Jude have helped push the overall

00:03:52   childhood cancer survival rate from 20% to more than 80% since opening.

00:03:57   And St. Jude won't stop until no child dies from cancer, but they need our support.

00:04:01   So go to stjude.org/relay. You can donate today.

00:04:06   If you make a single gift of $100 or more,

00:04:08   you'll receive an exclusive sticker thanks pack at the end of the campaign.

00:04:12   And don't forget, if your company matches donations,

00:04:15   please send an email to stephen@relay.fm and we can put those into the campaign too.

00:04:19   And then your money is doubled by your employer.

00:04:21   Go to stjude.org/relay to support St. Jude. Let's cure childhood cancer together.

00:04:26   And if you do want to catch up with the podcast,

00:04:29   if you haven't seen it, it's uploaded to YouTube now,

00:04:33   so you can go and watch it in all of its glory.

00:04:36   We also have an audio only version in a feed that we have called the departures feed.

00:04:42   Godspeed to you if you decide to listen to it in audio only.

00:04:45   I don't know what that experience would be like.

00:04:48   I think it's better for video, but hey, you do you.

00:04:54   Oh, and we've also got a bunch of other stuff still coming throughout the rest of the month.

00:04:59   We have other streams, lots of additional content.

00:05:02   Jason put together a Boulder Dash for the show itself,

00:05:06   but there's also a second Boulder Dash,

00:05:09   which is premiering on YouTube on the Relay FM YouTube channel today.

00:05:13   As we record this, by the time the episode's out,

00:05:16   it will be available for you to just go and watch it your own.

00:05:18   Right. Just watch a whole other episode of my two episode Relay FM Boulder Dash game show

00:05:24   with six additional Relay FM hosts.

00:05:28   So it was a fun one.

00:05:32   The one in the podcastathon was fun.

00:05:35   And the one that we'll be posting or has posted is also really good.

00:05:39   And I'm hoping that I will pop that in the departures feed at some point too.

00:05:43   So if you don't want to watch, but you are open to listening,

00:05:47   there'll be an audio version of that too.

00:05:48   Yeah, it was a truly incredible day.

00:05:52   Thank you so much if you tuned in for any of it.

00:05:54   We were blown away by not just how many people had tuned in,

00:05:57   but also all the money we raised.

00:05:59   And now sitting here, you know, on September 20th,

00:06:03   and I think right now we've just passed five, we're about to hit $511,000.

00:06:09   It's just an absolutely unbelievable amount of money

00:06:12   and just a level of support that we currently have ever dreamed of.

00:06:17   So thank you so much.

00:06:18   So this is a follow up.

00:06:21   So we had said a couple of weeks ago that we would on this episode

00:06:25   talk about the ramifications of the Epic and Apple trial

00:06:28   and if and how Apple would be changing their in-app purchase.

00:06:32   That rules because of the trial.

00:06:34   We can't talk about it right now because it's still too complicated.

00:06:38   There are lots and lots of opinions on the internet right now

00:06:43   as to what the ruling means.

00:06:45   Ultimately, I think I've come down on the line of,

00:06:50   I think it's best to just wait now because it seems like at the moment,

00:06:55   there is too much interpretation that can be made on the ruling

00:07:00   that Judge Gonzalez-Roch has put down.

00:07:03   So I think we actually need to wait now to see,

00:07:05   I think within the next few weeks,

00:07:08   because there's a time window on this where Apple have to do something or not,

00:07:14   and then we can see what happens after that period.

00:07:17   Yeah, there's a lot going on there, but I think we can push,

00:07:22   there's a lot of other stuff going on, so we can push that off for now.

00:07:24   It's just too difficult.

00:07:25   It's either it means everything or it means nothing

00:07:29   or in kind of all the way in between.

00:07:30   Somewhere in between.

00:07:31   Right.

00:07:31   Last night, Ted Lasso picked up a bunch of Emmys.

00:07:35   It was obvious that it was going to happen.

00:07:37   They won Outstanding Comedy Series,

00:07:40   Lead Actor in a Comedy went to Jason Sudeikis,

00:07:42   Supporting Actor went to Brett Goldstein,

00:07:44   Supporting Actress went to Hannah Waddingham,

00:07:46   and they also won awards for Sound Mixing, Editing, and Casting.

00:07:50   I think the only award they didn't win,

00:07:52   or at least the only major award they didn't win was writing.

00:07:55   They didn't win that one.

00:07:56   Writing and directing in a comedy,

00:07:57   both of which went to Hacks on HBO Max,

00:07:59   which is by the way also a fantastic show.

00:08:02   And if people haven't tried it, they should give it a go.

00:08:04   Hacks is great as well.

00:08:06   So I was happy to see Hacks win a few Emmys

00:08:11   because it also won Best Actress in a Comedy.

00:08:14   So that's a show worth watching if you've got HBO Max.

00:08:18   And I'm very happy that it won some awards

00:08:21   because now more people have heard of it

00:08:24   and it would be harder for it to be canceled.

00:08:27   And it already got picked up for a second season,

00:08:29   but I love that show too.

00:08:30   So they didn't win all the Emmys,

00:08:32   but Ted Lasso won an awful lot, which was expected.

00:08:36   I think the Hacks wins were surprising

00:08:38   and I'm happy for them for those.

00:08:40   Also that seems to be a place where it was easy for them

00:08:42   to split the nominees because Ted Lasso got nominated

00:08:45   for half of the nominations in those categories.

00:08:48   And they did in these other categories too in the supporting,

00:08:51   but I felt like Hannah Waddingham and Brett Goldstein

00:08:54   were so clearly the right choices

00:08:57   that they were able to overcome the other Ted Lasso people

00:09:01   in their category in order to win those.

00:09:03   But yeah, so Apple had within like an hour of the Emmys,

00:09:07   all the banners on Apple TV were winner of eight Emmy awards.

00:09:10   So good to whoever was up on Sunday night

00:09:14   updating all of their graphics on Apple TV.

00:09:19   It was something that I found kind of funny

00:09:22   like in Apple's press release, they say,

00:09:25   I just love this line, it's hilarious to me.

00:09:28   Apple TV+ becomes first streaming service in history

00:09:31   to land top program award in its second year of eligibility.

00:09:34   Like that, but like if you actually read that, right?

00:09:38   First in history, second year possible.

00:09:41   In history is not that big if the history is two years.

00:09:45   - Well, it means, well, the history is the history

00:09:49   of streaming services, right?

00:09:50   - Yeah.

00:09:50   - In the history of streaming, it took Netflix longer

00:09:53   and Amazon longer to win a major award like this.

00:09:55   But also, yes, it is silly.

00:09:57   They're trying to find a superlative, I get it.

00:09:59   But it's a big deal.

00:10:02   I mean, like what, two years ago weren't people

00:10:08   making Carpool Karaoke and other Eddie Q,

00:10:13   Eddie Q thanked on stage by the way,

00:10:15   along with T-Dog, Tim Cook by Bill Lawrence.

00:10:19   - Was it Zach and Jamie?

00:10:21   - Zach and Jamie were in there.

00:10:22   Yeah, it was all the people we've been talking about.

00:10:24   But I just, when all those people were making jokes

00:10:26   about the dumb Apple music video stuff

00:10:29   and Carpool Karaoke that they'd been doing.

00:10:32   And we said, no, no, no, no, you don't understand.

00:10:34   This is not that.

00:10:35   These are different people doing something different.

00:10:37   Well, here we are two years later

00:10:38   and one of their shows won eight Emmys.

00:10:41   Now, who knew?

00:10:44   I mean, who knew it would be Ted Lasso?

00:10:47   The thing is you place your bets.

00:10:49   I mean, I'm sure their big bet was the morning show

00:10:52   and it got some awards, but what you do is you program

00:10:56   your network and the hits will emerge

00:11:00   and the critical darlings will emerge.

00:11:01   And that's how you have to do it.

00:11:02   You can't, I actually wonder about this for Amazon

00:11:06   where they're trying to replicate

00:11:07   Game of Thrones essentially.

00:11:09   And like, I'm not sure you can do that.

00:11:10   I think you gotta have a strategy

00:11:13   where you throw off a bunch of shows

00:11:14   and some of them are gonna flop

00:11:15   and some of them are gonna be hits

00:11:17   and you just, you gotta, you can't control what happens.

00:11:20   So Apple, I'm sure was taken by surprise,

00:11:23   but now they're firmly on board the Ted Lasso train.

00:11:26   In fact, we should mention the Hollywood Reporter story

00:11:31   about season three, because it's got some interesting things

00:11:36   about renegotiating the salaries of the writers

00:11:39   and the cast to give them more money,

00:11:41   which I think is interesting.

00:11:42   Like they didn't have to do that,

00:11:44   but it's one of those things where you want to

00:11:46   be gracious to your creative team for, you know, right.

00:11:51   Like they placed the bet on Ted Lasso,

00:11:53   not thinking it would be successful,

00:11:55   but it's been so successful that Apple

00:11:57   and Warners have gone back to them

00:12:00   and sweetened their deals, which is interesting.

00:12:05   And it also, I think raises the question like,

00:12:08   and the Hollywood Reporter article does a good job

00:12:11   of raising this question without answering it.

00:12:12   'Cause there is no answer right now, right?

00:12:14   But it's basically, you know, surely they're not gonna stop

00:12:18   at three seasons given how successful it's been.

00:12:21   And there's kind of a lot of shrugging going on of like,

00:12:24   you know, the impression I get is that Apple

00:12:26   and Warner are happy to back up the truck of money

00:12:30   to Jason Sudeikis' house, but it's unclear

00:12:33   if Jason Sudeikis is willing to have them open

00:12:38   up the back of that truck.

00:12:39   So it's all still kind of floating out there.

00:12:41   - I still think it's gonna go past three seasons.

00:12:45   - Yeah, I think the big issue is that he's got young kids

00:12:49   and they shoot in England.

00:12:50   So I think the question is, do they recalibrate

00:12:54   what they think the storyline might be

00:12:56   and have it continue?

00:12:58   Does Ted come back to the US?

00:13:01   Do they split the show where Ted comes back to the US

00:13:05   and the other characters stay in England?

00:13:07   And there were kind of two shows at that point?

00:13:09   I don't know what they do.

00:13:10   - Did they just change the way they film it?

00:13:12   There are ways around every problem, right?

00:13:14   - Yeah, it's true.

00:13:15   They could film interiors in the US, in New York,

00:13:21   or somewhere like that.

00:13:22   I think his kids are in New York.

00:13:23   I think that's where he lives.

00:13:25   They could shoot at interiors in New York

00:13:28   and shoot exteriors in England

00:13:31   and do it that way if they wanted to.

00:13:32   Like they've got, right?

00:13:35   That's the question is like, if he says absolutely no,

00:13:37   then it's gonna be absolutely no,

00:13:38   but there's so much money and prestige involved now.

00:13:42   And it's art and commerce.

00:13:44   Look, this is all the stuff we talk about.

00:13:46   It's art and commerce.

00:13:47   Both of those things exist.

00:13:49   And usually commerce wins because at the end of the day,

00:13:56   all of those writers and actors have house payments

00:13:58   and families to support.

00:14:02   And there is the offer of an avalanche of money.

00:14:05   And even if Jason Sudeikis, I would say,

00:14:07   even if Jason Sudeikis is really reluctant to keep going

00:14:10   because he's got his vision for where the story goes

00:14:12   and he's got young kids in the United States,

00:14:15   it's not just a personal decision, right?

00:14:18   It's a decision that has ramifications

00:14:20   for everyone who makes the show.

00:14:22   And if he says no, he's taking the money

00:14:24   out of their hands as well.

00:14:27   And that's a hard decision to make.

00:14:29   - And if we put money aside for a minute,

00:14:31   like it is a massive factor, right?

00:14:33   This is how these people make the living.

00:14:35   - This is Jason Sudeikis' biggest success.

00:14:37   And he may come to realize, hey, you know what?

00:14:42   I like making this show and everyone loves it.

00:14:46   And it's going really well.

00:14:48   - So let's make some more money while the sun is shining

00:14:52   'cause you never know what'll happen after this.

00:14:53   - But again, it's not even just the money.

00:14:55   It's just like, let's continue making this show

00:14:58   that is so critically acclaimed.

00:14:59   - Yeah, and that we all generally seem to like each other.

00:15:02   - Yeah, I've gone to his Wikipedia page at the moment.

00:15:04   I looked at like his awards and nominations

00:15:07   and like the entire box, it's like two thirds

00:15:09   of the box is Ted Lasso.

00:15:10   - Oh, of course.

00:15:11   No, this is his big thing.

00:15:13   - This is his like, Jason Sudeikis will be remembered

00:15:16   for being Ted Lasso now.

00:15:18   That's how it would appear to be.

00:15:21   So maybe you wanna find a way to make it work.

00:15:25   I don't know, we'll find out.

00:15:26   - I like that it is that report is all about,

00:15:31   and I do recommend it, the Hollywood Reporter story.

00:15:32   - It's great, oh, okay.

00:15:33   - It is all about like, how do you, now that it's a hit,

00:15:38   like you go back and recompensate everybody.

00:15:39   You give everybody more money.

00:15:40   You give Brett Goldstein and Hannah Wanning a lot more money

00:15:43   'cause they just won Emmy awards.

00:15:45   You give the writers more money.

00:15:46   Like everybody's gonna get more money.

00:15:48   And we mentioned the other week that there also is this thing

00:15:51   where Apple is trying to buy out some of the linear TV rights

00:15:54   'cause they don't want Ted Lasso running on cable TV.

00:15:57   They want it to be Apple TV exclusive.

00:15:59   What does that cost?

00:16:00   Like all of this stuff is going on now.

00:16:03   And it's really interesting

00:16:04   because it's this unexpected success.

00:16:06   And now they have to figure out where they go next.

00:16:08   - Season three is gonna have 12 episodes.

00:16:10   They confirmed that during the Emmys last night.

00:16:12   - Right, like season two, except unlike season two,

00:16:15   they're gonna plan for 12 episodes

00:16:17   because this past weekend's episode, actually,

00:16:19   people were saying, if you have seen it,

00:16:21   it's a very off format episode.

00:16:23   It is unlike a normal episode of Ted Lasso.

00:16:27   And I actually saw somebody say, I didn't like it

00:16:30   because I don't like that they took an episode

00:16:32   out of the story in order to tell this other thing.

00:16:35   And I had to say, they didn't take an episode

00:16:38   out of the story.

00:16:39   This is the other standalone episode that they wrote

00:16:41   after they broke the season with 10 episodes.

00:16:45   And then Apple came to them and said,

00:16:46   can you make two more episodes?

00:16:48   And they're like, but we already, okay.

00:16:50   Again, not turning down the money,

00:16:52   but instead of breaking up their 10 episode plan,

00:16:55   what they did is they inserted two standalone episodes,

00:16:59   the Christmas special and the one that aired this week.

00:17:02   Next season, they will plan for 12 episodes,

00:17:04   which is better.

00:17:06   - Just real quick as well, morning show started again,

00:17:08   no spoilers, but I really enjoyed the first episode.

00:17:11   I'm excited to see what the season goes.

00:17:13   Have you seen it yet?

00:17:13   - No, we are watching some other stuff right now.

00:17:18   We just watched the first three episodes

00:17:19   of "Why the Last Man," which was a lot of fun

00:17:21   in the comic book that I really liked.

00:17:23   So I'm enjoying that.

00:17:24   But we got it ready to go.

00:17:26   It was one of those things where we're like,

00:17:28   it's nine o'clock and we can do an hour long TV show.

00:17:31   And do we really wanna kick off the morning show?

00:17:33   And it was like, let's let it percolate.

00:17:35   We'll come back to it.

00:17:36   - I tend to go all over that, but I was excited to see it.

00:17:40   It's good.

00:17:40   I'm really intrigued to see where the season goes.

00:17:43   - And "Foundation" premieres on Friday.

00:17:46   And I'm looking forward to that.

00:17:47   - Remind me, they're dropping two episodes of that, right?

00:17:51   - I don't know.

00:17:54   At the beginning of the Apple event last week,

00:17:56   it was interesting to see that they've got

00:17:58   their fall rollout schedule.

00:18:00   I was saying to Lauren last night,

00:18:01   as we were looking at all the different stuff

00:18:03   that we can watch, it's like,

00:18:04   oh, all the shows are back now, right?

00:18:06   Like it's only been in this last week or two

00:18:09   where I've realized, oh, everything that was put

00:18:12   into COVID production earlier this year

00:18:16   is all starting to roll out.

00:18:18   So we had that moment that was more of a lull.

00:18:20   And right now, everything is dropping.

00:18:25   'Cause "Sex Education" dropped on Friday on Netflix,

00:18:27   which is a show I really like.

00:18:28   I haven't watched that yet.

00:18:30   Like everything is dropping now.

00:18:33   All the shows are coming out now.

00:18:35   So that's great, but it's overwhelming.

00:18:37   - It is too, by the way, "Foundation."

00:18:39   It starts with two episodes.

00:18:40   - It is two episodes of "Foundation."

00:18:41   And then they've got another release the following week

00:18:43   and another release the following week

00:18:44   and another release, like it keeps going.

00:18:46   There's a lot of content coming out now.

00:18:49   It's kind of overwhelming, but good stuff, good stuff.

00:18:53   And congratulations to Ted Lasso because I love that show.

00:18:56   And I'm glad it's done so well and it is funny to see

00:19:01   Apple TV+, of all things, having these,

00:19:05   getting up on stage and saying, "Thanks to Apple."

00:19:08   Or as Bill Lawrence said, "Thanks to Zach and Jamie,

00:19:13   Eddie, and T-Dog."

00:19:15   That's my name for Tim Cook.

00:19:16   I'm sure at 4 a.m. when Tim Cook's alarm went off,

00:19:18   he awoke to happy news about Ted Lasso and puzzlement

00:19:24   about people calling him T-Dog.

00:19:26   (laughs)

00:19:27   - You can skip 15 seconds.

00:19:29   I'm gonna spoil the joke from "Morning Show."

00:19:32   - Okay.

00:19:33   How do I skip 15 seconds, Myke?

00:19:34   I'm here with you.

00:19:35   - You can't.

00:19:35   You're gonna hear it.

00:19:36   UBA+ is a thing that's referenced.

00:19:39   - Oh, yay!

00:19:40   Fantastic.

00:19:42   - I was so--

00:19:43   - I love it.

00:19:44   - I screamed.

00:19:45   - I love it.

00:19:45   - I was so excited.

00:19:46   It was like, "I tipped the cap to you, sir."

00:19:49   - Yes, good stuff.

00:19:51   - Mm-hmm.

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00:21:48   All right, so let's talk about some,

00:21:50   I'll reflect a little bit more on last week

00:21:52   on the Apple event.

00:21:53   Okay.

00:21:54   Now that the dust has settled,

00:21:55   how do you feel about the event?

00:21:58   I've seen a lot of like people online saying,

00:22:00   it was disappointing, it was boring, it's an S year.

00:22:03   What do you think?

00:22:04   You know, everybody is always disappointed by Apple events

00:22:08   unless they have some mind blowing product.

00:22:11   And I think that this is incremental.

00:22:14   We talked about it a little last time.

00:22:17   Incremental is what it is.

00:22:19   It is an S year.

00:22:20   That's true, essentially.

00:22:21   It is a quieter iPhone cycle.

00:22:24   It's a quieter Apple watch cycle.

00:22:27   The truth is most people don't buy the same thing every year.

00:22:32   And what matters is that Apple pushes everything forward.

00:22:36   And then this is their PR push.

00:22:39   And then everybody in the holiday quarter,

00:22:42   who's got a two or three or four year old iPhone

00:22:45   or Apple watch, those people update.

00:22:48   It's part of the cycle.

00:22:49   It's fine.

00:22:50   Not every year is going to be like last year was the,

00:22:53   we changed how this looks and, you know,

00:22:56   we gave it this whole new approach that we're doing to the iPhone.

00:23:00   Like, did you think that was going to happen again this year?

00:23:03   Like, no, that's not, that's not what happened.

00:23:04   So it was, I thought it was fine.

00:23:06   It is what it is.

00:23:07   It is an iPhone.

00:23:08   It's an incremental iPhone event.

00:23:11   They have them every year.

00:23:12   They have them every year for good reasons.

00:23:14   They're not going to stop doing them because they do want to refresh their product every year.

00:23:19   But, you know, saying that it's a, it's a boring kind of thing.

00:23:24   Like that's, that's like, um, dog bites, man, kind of stuff.

00:23:27   Like Apple hasn't done a, it's so rare that the iPhone event completely blows your mind

00:23:34   because the pace of smartphone innovation hasn't been like that in a decade.

00:23:37   So now it really comes every two, three, four, five years.

00:23:41   And otherwise it's just, they push it along and they pushed it along.

00:23:44   It's fine.

00:23:45   Like I don't, I don't expect more than this.

00:23:49   Like it's a pleasant surprise.

00:23:51   I find it funny when people say like, oh, this should have been an S phone.

00:23:57   It doesn't mean anything what they call it.

00:23:59   Doesn't mean anything.

00:24:00   I thought the, I always thought the S was dumb ever since the S is for speed with the iPhone 3GS.

00:24:05   Because it didn't make any sense.

00:24:06   You would incrementally number every other one.

00:24:11   That didn't make any sense anyway.

00:24:12   Right?

00:24:13   Like it's like four, four S five, like it didn't, it was no.

00:24:17   - And it's not like people, I mean, if you're on, okay, here's the one place where I will say,

00:24:21   I understand people grumbling about this is the people who are on the upgrade program

00:24:28   where they get not this upgrade program that we're on, but the iPhone upgrade program.

00:24:33   Yeah.

00:24:34   They get a new phone every year.

00:24:35   And the idea is, yay, it's exciting.

00:24:37   I get a new phone every year.

00:24:38   And last year's phone came out a month later.

00:24:40   So they have to pay extra in order to get a new phone that they're not that excited about.

00:24:43   But even then, I think you could just continue to pay it and then you

00:24:46   pay it off and then you could, you can, you just upgrade.

00:24:49   - No, I don't think that even on that plan, like on the upgrade plan, like on the upgrade program,

00:24:55   you're paying every month anyway, whether the phone is good or bad or somewhere in between.

00:24:59   - The truth is whatever 95% of people don't buy an iPhone every year.

00:25:03   And, and it's, it's like, I've got excited about the Apple watch.

00:25:07   I'm less excited about the iPhones.

00:25:09   Rumor has it that the iPhones next year are going to be different, right?

00:25:12   Like they don't, they don't do that every year.

00:25:13   They're not going to try to do that every year.

00:25:15   And I got to say, you know, again, it is, no, it was not a very exciting thing,

00:25:21   but I also have to say that there's a tenor, especially in some of the,

00:25:25   let me say the more mainstream press about this stuff that is very much like,

00:25:31   why is Apple not dancing for my amusement?

00:25:33   Like dance monkey dance, because, you know, they want to have stuff to write about and

00:25:38   they want to be entertained and they want to have the next big thing.

00:25:41   And like, it's never really been like that, but it's a, it gives you a thing to write every year

00:25:47   to have a hot take that Apple is, Apple is boring.

00:25:50   Smartphones have been boring for a while now.

00:25:52   That's just the truth of it.

00:25:54   They've been boring for a while now.

00:25:55   - So mature market, isn't it?

00:25:57   - This is, this is the era where people who want to nerd out about phone features can

00:26:01   appreciate the little details.

00:26:03   That's us by the way, that's us.

00:26:05   But no, it's incremental.

00:26:07   It is, John Gruber wrote a piece for me in Mac world, like 15 years ago about incrementalism

00:26:13   and he links to it all the time.

00:26:14   Like Apple, Apple's whole thing is incremental and people have always misunderstood Apple

00:26:21   and said, oh, every Apple announcement that isn't world-changing is dumb and boring and

00:26:27   they should feel bad.

00:26:27   And it's like, eh, I don't know.

00:26:29   It's always been this way.

00:26:30   Was this year more incremental than usual?

00:26:33   - Yeah, it was, but you know, that's how it is.

00:26:38   I would, if I had to analyze, I would--

00:26:40   - I think that that screen, I think the screen is gonna really surprise people.

00:26:44   - The promotion on the pro?

00:26:45   - Yes.

00:26:46   - Could be.

00:26:46   - And I think it's something we can't see.

00:26:48   And plus the cameras, like the camera changes seem so much bigger this year than last year.

00:26:54   But I feel for me, I feel like Apple made a bigger song and dance of it last year than

00:26:59   this year.

00:26:59   - Well, isn't this what Apple does though is Apple does the visual changes and then does

00:27:04   the not as visible changes the next year that tends to be what they do.

00:27:09   Not always, but they always do.

00:27:11   That's the incrementalism of it.

00:27:12   And if you look closely, you can find things that are interesting.

00:27:14   But in the end, what they're really doing is they're selling this phone to people who

00:27:18   have an iPhone 10 or 10s or eight or seven and not people who have the iPhone 12, maybe

00:27:26   even the iPhone 11.

00:27:27   Okay, but that's who they're selling this to.

00:27:30   And it's fine.

00:27:33   There are gonna be good things in it.

00:27:35   But most people are buying this year's advances and last year's advances and maybe the years

00:27:40   before his advances.

00:27:42   There's a very large number of people, a surprisingly large number of people who will buy the iPhone

00:27:48   13 for whom it will be their first face ID phone.

00:27:53   Right?

00:27:55   I know that seems weird to us, but there's a lot of people out there with iPhone sevens

00:27:59   and eights who are gonna update this year.

00:28:01   And they're gonna be like, whoa, what is OLED face ID?

00:28:06   This is wild.

00:28:07   It's like, yeah, yeah.

00:28:08   So I don't know.

00:28:10   I thought it was fine.

00:28:11   I think that there is some COVID hangover happening here where I feel like even Apple

00:28:19   cannot be at 100% having been doing all of this remote work and having all of this disruption

00:28:27   for more than a year.

00:28:28   And we probably see a little more of it this year than last because of course they work

00:28:34   way ahead.

00:28:35   But I think it's not dramatic.

00:28:39   This is just what they do.

00:28:41   And I think the announcements are fine and the products, I mean, the products don't look

00:28:44   like dogs or anything.

00:28:45   It's not like they ratcheted up the price for a lesser product.

00:28:47   The prices stay the same.

00:28:49   So it feels very normal to me.

00:28:53   I guess that translates as boring, but I don't know.

00:28:55   It just feels normal to me.

00:28:56   - One thing I've been wondering is like, why did they announce the Apple watch now if it's

00:29:02   not ready for an indeterminate amount of time, if they are going to have another event later

00:29:08   in the year, which it seems like that they would, or they easily could?

00:29:12   - Yeah, it's something we've discussed before the idea of do you announce a product if you

00:29:17   are Apple with your, like they want to do it in this timeline of theirs, right?

00:29:23   Which is announce now on sale here, ships now, right?

00:29:28   And it doesn't have to be this week.

00:29:29   Sometimes it's announced now, goes on sale next Friday or in two Fridays even, and then

00:29:35   ships two weeks after that or whatever, right?

00:29:38   Like there's a calendar, sort of an internal calendar.

00:29:42   And what you want to do if you're a seller of products, which Apple most definitely is,

00:29:47   is give people a call to action, right?

00:29:49   So the ideal is, hey everybody, new iPhones, it's Tuesday, you can order them Friday.

00:29:54   I mean, I would argue it'd be better if you could order them that day, but Apple seems

00:29:58   to have decided that this is the way you do it.

00:30:00   You can order them Friday, and people did order them Friday, and then they're going

00:30:04   to ship.

00:30:04   So great.

00:30:05   I mean, with the iPad mini, they were available then, right then.

00:30:09   So that was kind of exciting too.

00:30:10   There's Apple watch, which like isn't on the calendar.

00:30:14   So the question is, I think you ask, it's a good question.

00:30:19   Why now if you don't have the calendar, even if it was a calendar that was pushed out several

00:30:25   weeks, why now?

00:30:26   And I think the answer is they know, we don't, but they know what else they've got this fall.

00:30:33   And they're looking at putting an Apple watch with a MacBook Pro and how they shift gears

00:30:38   to tell that story.

00:30:40   Whereas the Apple watch is the iPhone's buddy, right?

00:30:46   It's a sidekick product of the iPhone.

00:30:48   So they made the decision and it's interesting because last year they deferred the iPhone,

00:30:55   but kept the Apple watch.

00:30:56   But I guess we can't use, I was just thinking this, right?

00:30:59   Cause it was like iPad, iPad, Apple watch was one event, but I guess we can't really

00:31:06   use last year as an example of anything, right?

00:31:09   Yeah.

00:31:10   Well, and I think that it, it, the Apple watch is not the iPhone, right?

00:31:13   They carry different weight.

00:31:14   And I think the Apple watch going first was a little bit weird, but if you hold onto the

00:31:20   Apple watch, don't announce it here, even though it's the iPhone's buddy.

00:31:24   And then you announce it with a MacBook Pro, like MacBook Pro Apple really does like to

00:31:30   do these use case things where it's like, these are for pros.

00:31:33   These are for people who really care.

00:31:36   And the, and the Apple watch is a foundational product.

00:31:40   It's not like an accessory, even though it kind of is.

00:31:42   It tells a totally different story.

00:31:46   So, and it, and it is, you know, it's OS release is basically tied to the iOS release.

00:31:51   I don't know.

00:31:52   To me, it feels like they decided this was a better fit thematically and a better fit

00:31:57   because it's the iPhone's buddy than to hold it off because they know what else they have

00:32:02   to announce.

00:32:02   And they were trying to think, do we put it in that event and think, no, it fits better

00:32:08   just going along with the iPhone, even though they're not ready.

00:32:12   But it was probably a tough decision because I think they don't, I think they super don't

00:32:17   like not having that product sales calendar set when they announced the product.

00:32:24   But I think that's, they're stuck.

00:32:26   Well, cause they've pulled the rug out of the Apple watch sales, you know, for a little

00:32:30   bit that there will be a dip.

00:32:33   I mean, who knows how much, but anybody who was thinking they wanted an Apple watch series

00:32:38   six won't buy one now until whenever.

00:32:41   Yeah.

00:32:42   So, um, that's my best guess anyway, is, is since you asked is that they, they know what

00:32:48   their next event is and they thought, no, this fits better.

00:32:51   Even though that we're going to give up that really useful messaging where we say, here's

00:32:55   how, here's this great thing.

00:32:57   And now go buy it or go buy it in a few days.

00:32:59   They gave that up, but you know, they did get a good match with the rest of the products

00:33:05   in that event.

00:33:05   I ordered my iPad mini before our last episode, I ordered my iPhone.

00:33:10   I really liked, I just wanted to say like, I really liked Apple's new system where you

00:33:16   could, before the pre-order date, you could just go into the Apple store app, choose everything

00:33:22   you wanted.

00:33:22   And then all you had to do was open the app and just press a button to confirm.

00:33:26   And if I used Apple pay and just authorize Apple pay, that's it.

00:33:29   Like it was way easier.

00:33:31   Like you didn't have to go through the whole selection process, uh, which, you know, takes

00:33:36   the time that it takes.

00:33:37   So you just have less to do when you're rushing to try and get your order in if you want to

00:33:41   get it on the first day.

00:33:43   So I liked it.

00:33:43   Yeah.

00:33:43   This Apple focusing some of its effort on making it easier to give Apple money would seem to

00:33:51   be a no brainer.

00:33:51   And yet, uh, it doesn't always happen, but it's a, it's a smart thing, right?

00:33:56   Cause ultimately that's what they want is just grease the skids of how easy it is for you

00:34:02   to shovel money.

00:34:03   Global highland, this point in a discord, it was a good point of like, if you had an Apple

00:34:07   card, Oh yeah.

00:34:08   It failed.

00:34:09   Yeah.

00:34:11   The, so what we always say on this podcast is iPhone.

00:34:17   You think that other things are big, but only the iPhone is really big.

00:34:20   Like you lose sight of it and you're like, Oh, WWDC, that's a big event.

00:34:23   And we see it.

00:34:25   So we went live last week after the event.

00:34:27   And we, a few years ago at WWDC, we quadrupled essentially our live stream capacity because

00:34:34   we were maxing out and we maxed out at our new quadrupled number.

00:34:39   We maxed out the number of live listeners we could have.

00:34:42   Steven had to pay more money for a bigger server for next time.

00:34:45   But this is the lesson.

00:34:46   When back when everybody was using live blogging platforms, all the live blogging platforms

00:34:51   would break on iPhone day because the iPhone interest is just way more than the interest

00:34:58   for any other product.

00:34:59   And it, we, it's, we can lose sight of it when we're talking about Apple as a whole,

00:35:04   lose sight of that fact that the iPhone is just so much more important than anything

00:35:07   else Apple does.

00:35:08   It's like, just in general, we do a lot of fun things in the show.

00:35:11   We've been lucky to have a lot of interviews with people at Apple, et cetera, et cetera.

00:35:14   It's never an episode bigger than the iPhone event episode.

00:35:17   Never ever, ever.

00:35:18   Doesn't matter what happens.

00:35:20   So this goes to Apple's financial partners as well, right?

00:35:25   Where somebody somewhere along the way, maybe at the Apple card bank, which is not Apple,

00:35:30   right?

00:35:30   They have a bank partner.

00:35:31   Somebody somewhere was like, we've stress tested, trust, stress tested this thing.

00:35:38   It's going to be great.

00:35:39   And then 5 a.m.

00:35:41   Pacific on iPhone ordering day comes and they realize, Oh no, because the iPhone is that

00:35:51   popular, right?

00:35:51   Like gauge gauge, look at all of your maximums for your whole history.

00:35:57   Do not set the bar at those because the iPhone will break it.

00:36:02   The iPhone is going to break it and it, it broke it.

00:36:05   It broke their financial system.

00:36:08   It swamped it and Apple card charges were getting rejected and you had to put in a different

00:36:13   card, which then worked right.

00:36:15   It wasn't the credit card processing system on apple.com that was broken.

00:36:20   It was the verification step from Apple card that broke because they were overwhelmed because

00:36:27   buying Apple products on the Apple card is the best deal you can get.

00:36:30   It is the best deal, right?

00:36:33   You get a lot of money back if you buy Apple products on the Apple card.

00:36:37   So everybody uses their Apple card for their Apple products.

00:36:40   And, uh, it's just funny, like they, somebody had a real bad day at whatever bank or whatever

00:36:46   processing house was in charge of that if it's Goldman Sachs or if it's a partner of

00:36:50   theirs or who, but, but whoever was in charge of, of, of that connection and making sure

00:36:57   that it could withstand a peak, they blew it.

00:37:01   And Apple lost probably some money and definitely some money to the Apple card where one of

00:37:09   their competitors, uh, you know, one of the Apple cards competitors ended up getting that

00:37:13   transaction.

00:37:15   Although Apple did do a lot of, since these are pre-orders, Apple apparently emailed a

00:37:18   lot of people and said, it seems like you were trying to pay with your Apple card.

00:37:21   It didn't work.

00:37:22   We fixed the problem.

00:37:23   Click here to switch your order to the Apple card.

00:37:25   So they tried to do some damage control, but like they're going to lose, they're going

00:37:30   to lose some money.

00:37:31   So anyway, the lesson is never underestimate the iPhone.

00:37:35   Never, ever.

00:37:38   Uh, Mark Gurman is still expecting new AirPods of MacBook Pros to be announced this year.

00:37:43   So that's still, you know, still a going concern.

00:37:46   So we'll find out about that.

00:37:48   I'm still pretty hyped about the, about possible new MacBook Pro.

00:37:52   Uh, but we should talk about chips, chips, chips, chips, not the kind of chips for dinner,

00:37:57   but the kind of chips in phones and devices.

00:38:00   The Apple watch has the same processor.

00:38:03   The new Apple watch series seven has the same processor as the series six that has been

00:38:06   discovered by looking through code strings, et cetera.

00:38:09   And that the first time this has happened and the Apple watch line, but does know why

00:38:14   they didn't talk about it.

00:38:16   I didn't realize that at the time it didn't didn't strike me that, Oh yeah, they didn't

00:38:19   talk about anything about the system on a chip.

00:38:22   Well, it's because you already know everything about it.

00:38:24   It's the same as the last one.

00:38:25   Yeah.

00:38:26   It makes sense for this product though.

00:38:28   I don't, it's fine.

00:38:29   I don't think they need new chips in their products every single year.

00:38:33   I don't.

00:38:33   And especially the Apple watch.

00:38:35   I don't think that it's a thing that must be done every single time, but let's talk

00:38:40   about the A15.

00:38:42   Suspicious.

00:38:44   Cause it's been a lot of back and forth on this in a really interesting way.

00:38:47   So like you'll remember Apple went down to the chip lab for a much condensed portion

00:38:54   last time and they gave some statistics, but all those statistics were about this, the

00:39:00   A15 against the competition.

00:39:03   Competition.

00:39:04   And it's very strange.

00:39:05   We were talking about it last time.

00:39:06   And then there was some initial benchmarks that came out, uh, through geek bench as they

00:39:11   tend to do of what appeared to be or what was known to be the iPad mini.

00:39:16   And there was vastly improved graphics performance, which makes sense because there was more GPU

00:39:23   calls.

00:39:23   So let me, let me back up for a second because there's a, there's a, an interim step here

00:39:27   too, which is Apple did compare the iPad mini's processor.

00:39:35   To the previous generation iPad mini.

00:39:37   Yes.

00:39:38   So I did the math and I wrote about this at Mac world last week, last week, I did the

00:39:43   math on the difference and then tried to extrapolate that to get a geek bench score for the iPad

00:39:51   mini, which is so for the A15 and the results I were getting were basically the same or

00:39:57   slightly slower than the A14.

00:40:01   On core stuff, GPU, GPU, right?

00:40:04   You know, the, those stories came out that the GPU is better.

00:40:06   So obviously there's been some improvement to the GPU performance, but the core performance

00:40:12   seemed static.

00:40:14   It seemed like the A15 and the iPad mini was not any faster than the A14 in the iPhone

00:40:21   12.

00:40:22   And that was perplexing.

00:40:23   And you combine that with Apple not comparing the iPhone to the previous iPhone and it raised

00:40:30   the question like, is the A15 core not any faster than the A14?

00:40:37   Is that, did that really happen?

00:40:38   And then there was like, oh, you know, maybe the, maybe I think there was a report that

00:40:43   like a bunch of people had left and now Apple's can't do it anymore.

00:40:47   Yes.

00:40:47   That's right.

00:40:48   There was an Apple, Apple is, Apple chip making is basically doomed and entering a dark age

00:40:53   because a bunch of people left Apple's chip making group to do a startup that got bought

00:40:57   by Qualcomm and then a bunch of other people went and left to go to a different startup.

00:41:02   That was a good story with a lot of really, you could see the bias and the assumptions

00:41:09   in things like the headline, but the actual story had some interesting details in it.

00:41:12   But that was, it is a question of like, well, was it COVID?

00:41:15   Is it, is it doom and gloom?

00:41:17   Is it that they had a goal for a next generation core and they didn't have time to put it in

00:41:24   A15 so it'll come later.

00:41:26   Is it the Mac transition, the Apple Silicon transition?

00:41:28   Are they so busy making a souped up chip for MacBook pros and, and beyond that they didn't

00:41:33   have time to really apply themselves to the A15?

00:41:36   Lots of theories out there until the first benchmark.

00:41:39   Just before that as well.

00:41:41   And then I heard on dithering, John Gruber had a good theory, which I liked and was subscribing

00:41:45   to of like, maybe they decided not to go too heavy on the CPU this time.

00:41:49   They went more on the, the kind of the energy efficiency cause.

00:41:52   Because the battery life claims are a lot better.

00:41:55   So did they, did they take the A15 and have it be not faster, but way more power efficient.

00:42:00   And was that their, the trick they did.

00:42:02   And then, and then what happened is, um, more scores got updated.

00:42:08   I don't know who does this.

00:42:09   Is it people who don't understand that if you have geek bench and not geek bench pro,

00:42:13   it uploads all the scores automatically, by the way, if you're a reviewer, um, it's in

00:42:17   violation of your NDA.

00:42:19   If you do that, you can't do that.

00:42:21   You gotta, you gotta buy geek bench pro people.

00:42:24   I think it could be reviewers doing it either accidentally or purposefully.

00:42:27   Or people at Apple.

00:42:30   Yeah.

00:42:30   It could be, or it could be Apple.

00:42:31   So anyway, it could be Apple.

00:42:33   Oh, uh, wow.

00:42:34   That's a, that's an interesting theory.

00:42:36   Anyway, it put the kibosh on this whole story because, um, A15 actually does look faster

00:42:41   than A14 on the iPhone.

00:42:43   And, uh, I had that moment where I was like, well, how could that be?

00:42:46   And I thought to myself, I wonder if they, did they just underclock the A15 and the iPad

00:42:52   mini, is it just slower than the A15 in the iPhone?

00:42:56   And it sounds like, yeah, that's actually what they did, which, which may mean.

00:42:59   So it turns out the A15, if these, uh, if these benchmark scores are accurate, um, is

00:43:07   about as much faster as the A14 as has been the average core improvement over the last

00:43:13   five years.

00:43:14   So not a story.

00:43:15   It may be just, you know, 15 to 20% faster per core.

00:43:20   And if that's true, then basically Apple continues the pace of CPU advancement, just like they've

00:43:27   been doing.

00:43:27   But what I think is the most interesting is first, we already knew that the iPhone 13

00:43:33   and 13 pro are different in the sense that there's one more GPU.

00:43:37   It's very much like the MacBook air, right?

00:43:40   That was like, has the two different GPU configurations.

00:43:44   Um, and that's chip binning, right?

00:43:47   Where they're disabling the GPU in one, because maybe it isn't up to spec or maybe it doesn't

00:43:50   run that well or, or whatever, but it allows them to sort of like differentiate.

00:43:54   They're, they're banking one chip, but they can differentiate in the products they sell

00:43:58   by having some of them be more advanced and some of them being less advanced.

00:44:01   Well, if the iPad mini.

00:44:02   This reduces waste and a lot of, you know, there are a lot of advantages to it.

00:44:06   Right.

00:44:07   Because you can use chips that you might not otherwise qualify, which doesn't necessarily

00:44:10   mean your chip isn't qualified for the higher thing.

00:44:12   Cause like if they have, if they have to make a hundred MacBook errors or a hundred, uh,

00:44:16   iPhone 13s that have that disabled GPU and they don't have a hundred that, that need

00:44:23   the GPU disabled, they just disable the GPU anyway.

00:44:26   Right.

00:44:26   Like they can do it that way if they really want to, um, just to make it all consistent,

00:44:31   but downclocking.

00:44:33   So literally having the a 15 in the iPad mini run at a slower clock speed.

00:44:38   That's another way you do chip differentiation is it's the same chip, but it's running

00:44:43   at a lower clock speed.

00:44:44   Maybe because it has to, because it wouldn't have qualified at the higher clock speed.

00:44:48   Maybe because of battery life issues.

00:44:50   Who knows what their reasons are.

00:44:52   It could be lots of stuff, but it seems like, so there's one, a 15 sort of, but Apple's

00:44:59   actually selling it in three different configurations for now.

00:45:03   There might be another one coming next year.

00:45:07   There might be.

00:45:08   So, uh, so three different a 15s basically.

00:45:12   Oh, I guess more than right.

00:45:13   Because iPads, iPad pros will get it.

00:45:16   Max will get a version of this.

00:45:18   But they'll get, they'll get like an M2 or something, right?

00:45:20   They won't get an a 15 proper.

00:45:22   They'll get a iPad Air maybe.

00:45:25   Could get a 15 X, which would be strange.

00:45:28   So this is really interesting that, um, that they, that they've done this.

00:45:33   Um, but it also means that the, what I, what all of this happened because Apple refused

00:45:40   to compare the a 15 to the a 14 when they introduced the iPhone, I know probably why

00:45:45   they did it is because somebody in a marketing meeting said, our numbers are bigger against

00:45:49   Qualcomm than they are against ourselves.

00:45:50   Why are we comparing ourselves to ourselves?

00:45:53   Why don't we compare ourselves to the competition?

00:45:55   The numbers are much more impressive.

00:45:57   Instead of 20% faster, we can say 50% faster.

00:46:00   It's better.

00:46:01   Let's do that.

00:46:02   And also maybe, you know, like the compare ourselves to ourselves story might be more

00:46:06   fun for max later on in the year.

00:46:09   Let's not keep doing the same presentation over and over again.

00:46:11   Whatever it is.

00:46:12   And, and, but you know, it had the net effect of being like, Oh, they're not comparing themselves

00:46:16   to the 14.

00:46:16   They're only comparing themselves to like the eight 12 and the iPad mini.

00:46:19   So what does that mean?

00:46:20   And the answer is maybe nothing this week.

00:46:23   We'll tell, right.

00:46:24   Presumably we'll get a bunch of reviews this week.

00:46:26   That'll give us a much clearer picture.

00:46:27   But assuming that those those benchmark numbers are accurate it sounds like the eight 15 is

00:46:35   kind of just on the trail of it's it's another advancement of 15 to 20% in core efficiency.

00:46:43   And it, and they're, they're varying it using probably using binning.

00:46:47   They're varying it in the different products in order to meet whatever needs they have.

00:46:51   And and we'll see where they go from here, but it's, it's, it's, it's interesting, but

00:46:56   not in the way that maybe it seemed.

00:46:59   And I think it all comes down to a marketing decision that comparing themselves to Qualcomm's

00:47:03   chips looks better than comparing themselves to the eight 14 because the eight 14 is faster

00:47:08   than Qualcomm's fastest chips that are shipping.

00:47:11   And so Apple has, I mean, the argument is that Apple has lapped Qualcomm for a while

00:47:14   now they've been more than a year ahead of them.

00:47:16   So comparing yourself to Qualcomm is going to make you look better.

00:47:20   That number is going to be bigger because the Qualcomm chip is slower than the eight

00:47:24   14 but it did have this weird follow on effect of us all kind of raising our eyebrows and

00:47:30   saying, wait a second, why aren't you talking about the eight 14 performance?

00:47:34   And it may just be a coincidence.

00:47:37   Yep.

00:47:38   Sometimes recording first, you know, like we record the event first and that can have

00:47:43   its benefits and disadvantages sometimes be in the beginning of a new week also has its

00:47:47   benefits and disadvantages.

00:47:49   Cause if we recorded this show on like Thursdays or whatever, you know, we'd be like, oh,

00:47:52   what's going on with the eight 15.

00:47:54   And now we've got the full week's worth of coverage.

00:47:55   It's like, oh, maybe it's not a thing at all.

00:47:57   Yeah.

00:47:57   Now we know.

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00:49:46   iOS 15 is out today.

00:49:48   Yay, it's the day.

00:49:50   I'm expecting for most listeners of this show, iOS 15 is not something you don't already

00:49:55   know something about because I assume many of you, not all, but many of you will have

00:49:59   been on some kind of beta.

00:50:01   But there is a bunch of wonderful literature for you to peruse to find out stuff that you

00:50:06   may or may not have known.

00:50:07   Of course, you should always start with Federico Vittucci's incredible and comprehensive

00:50:11   review of iOS 15 and iPadOS 15.

00:50:14   The wonderful friend of the show, Dan Morin, has published a review of iOS.

00:50:19   Is it just iOS on the phone that Dan focuses on primarily?

00:50:23   Yeah, and you can start with Dan's review if you want to.

00:50:26   That's fine.

00:50:26   Start however you want.

00:50:27   I think that Six Colors review is excellent.

00:50:30   It's also shorter.

00:50:31   It's only about 9,000 words.

00:50:32   So, you know, it's going to take less time than Federico's.

00:50:34   Federico's, you know, you got to take your time.

00:50:36   So Dan focused on iOS 15, but he touches on the iPad a little bit and then I wrote a supplemental

00:50:43   piece to his piece that is about iPadOS 15.

00:50:46   So that's sort of how we split it out is I wrote a piece about the 15 experience as an

00:50:51   iPad user because I used iPadOS 15 as my on my primary iPad for the entire summer and

00:50:57   did not use it on my iPhone until like two weeks ago.

00:51:01   So Dan focused on iOS.

00:51:03   I focused on iPadOS, but there's a bunch of crossover too.

00:51:07   It's definitely an odd release of iOS.

00:51:12   I feel like there wasn't a ton of stuff to start with.

00:51:17   And then there's also a lot less left by the time that it's come out.

00:51:21   Like a lot of features have been pushed to later.

00:51:24   You know, SharePlay being one of them.

00:51:27   We spoke about it before.

00:51:28   Universal Control.

00:51:29   All this stuff coming later on.

00:51:31   But there is stuff there.

00:51:33   And I think some of the stuff that's there is actually quite interesting.

00:51:39   So like live text is something that is incredibly impressive.

00:51:44   And the more I remember to use it, the more I am impressed with it.

00:51:48   It's one of these things that you have to and I've noticed this in myself over the time

00:51:53   of using the beta.

00:51:54   It's a feature that you have to remember to use.

00:51:58   And then the more you remember to use it, the more places you find to use it.

00:52:02   Right.

00:52:03   So like I was doing a thing recently where I had to call someone and I had their telephone

00:52:10   number on a piece of paper.

00:52:11   It was like printed on a piece of paper.

00:52:12   And I opened the phone app and started dialing it.

00:52:15   I was like, no, no, wait.

00:52:17   And then open the camera app and then just point at my camera and press the button and

00:52:20   it called them immediately.

00:52:21   Right.

00:52:22   So it's like little things like that, which this system now has available to it, which

00:52:27   is very, I think it's very cool.

00:52:29   But we just have to make sure that we are integrating it into our workflows.

00:52:34   Yeah.

00:52:34   Live text is great.

00:52:36   I will mention one thing about it that bothers me, which is you can search.

00:52:42   It includes all the photos in your photo library, which is kind of amazing.

00:52:46   So I did a search for zebra as one of my sample searches that I do.

00:52:51   I do have some pictures of zebras in my photo library from zoos and from Hearst Castle where

00:52:57   there are zebras, if you didn't know.

00:53:00   And it also, I took, I had a humorous moment when we were walking on, actually the last

00:53:08   day we were in London for your wedding, we had a get together at a park.

00:53:12   And with a food, there's like a restaurant, but it's right next to a park.

00:53:18   We're walking down there from the tube station and there are it's a, it's a residential

00:53:24   street.

00:53:24   So it's got, you know, speed bumps basically.

00:53:27   And, and there's a, a sign that says something like warning zebra humps or something like

00:53:34   that.

00:53:35   This is zebra crossing.

00:53:36   Yeah.

00:53:37   But, but the, the, it wasn't quite zebra crossing.

00:53:40   It was something, it was, it was a funny wording of the sign.

00:53:43   And I took a picture of it cause I thought it was a funny sign and that showed up in

00:53:47   my zebra search because the word zebra was on the sign.

00:53:51   It showed up in my search for zebra.

00:53:52   That's cool.

00:53:53   What's less cool is that if I'm in the photos app and I search for zebra.

00:53:57   It doesn't search for the text.

00:53:58   It just isn't in there.

00:54:01   I don't understand why.

00:54:02   So you can only search from spotlight.

00:54:05   You can search your entire photo library for text, but only from spotlight, not from photos,

00:54:10   which is so weird.

00:54:11   Right.

00:54:12   Like I understand why they did that looking for something.

00:54:14   There's this like a little joke that we have from WWDC years ago.

00:54:18   Uh, it's just like a poster and the poster says show dad he's rad.

00:54:23   And you just thought it was hilarious.

00:54:25   Uh, I don't know why.

00:54:27   Yeah.

00:54:27   Cause you read it and, and it, we misread it.

00:54:31   I think as show dad, like he's a show dad, whatever that is.

00:54:33   And he's rad.

00:54:34   The show dad he's rad.

00:54:35   Now the world knows our inside joke and yeah, you can find it, but only in spotlight.

00:54:40   Cause I was searching in photos and couldn't find it.

00:54:43   And then when you said that I've gone to spotlight and I've searched it and it came up and it's

00:54:47   like, why, why, why are you doing, why do you, why do you do this Apple?

00:54:52   Why do you do these things?

00:54:53   Like that, that's just so frustrating to me.

00:54:55   But anyway, live text itself is really cool.

00:54:57   Uh, Oh, Oh, I, I wanted to mention just, it's another little detail, but it shows you how

00:55:01   how broken this idea is that, um, if you do a spotlight search for an object and it's

00:55:06   only in the photos library, like a dog, but not the word dog, it'll say, it'll show you

00:55:13   a bunch of photos and you can tap and it'll open all of those photos in the photos app.

00:55:17   All the dog photos.

00:55:18   If you search for zebra and you also have the word zebra, it, it gives you a thing that

00:55:23   shows you photos with zebras and text containing zebras with a tap to see more.

00:55:29   And the tap to see more can't open photos because he doesn't know about text in photos.

00:55:34   So it opens, I guess, a second spotlight window that replaces the first results with a second

00:55:43   split view that says here are the ones with text and here are the ones with pictures and

00:55:47   you can open these in photos.

00:55:49   It's like, what are you doing?

00:55:51   Like, why, why are you building all these workarounds when you could just put the text

00:55:56   in photos?

00:55:57   I don't understand it.

00:55:58   Anyway.

00:55:58   Uh, I write, I write a book about photos.

00:56:01   I go down the rabbit hole in the summer where I poke into these various features and it's

00:56:05   like, why, why did you do it this way?

00:56:08   But live text is great.

00:56:09   It could be a little greater, but it's great.

00:56:13   You know, now you've mentioned photos.

00:56:15   I want to talk, talk about something in photos, which is the new memories feature.

00:56:20   So I don't know if you are writing an article, right?

00:56:24   About photos.

00:56:25   I don't think you've published it yet.

00:56:26   By the time this podcast comes out, it'll be out.

00:56:29   Okay.

00:56:29   And what's really nice.

00:56:31   The new memories feature.

00:56:33   And I don't think I do.

00:56:35   Huh?

00:56:36   What don't you like about it?

00:56:37   I don't like how difficult it is almost now and impossible to just see the images in the

00:56:44   memory.

00:56:44   I don't necessarily always want the movie.

00:56:49   And you used to be able to, and I was 14, it would show you a memory and you could just

00:56:53   scroll through the images and they make that incredibly difficult now.

00:56:58   And like most of the time, I just want to see the images.

00:57:00   I don't want all the music and stuff.

00:57:02   Well, you can, you can like tap through and see them that way.

00:57:09   Yeah.

00:57:09   But sometimes I just like to look at it.

00:57:11   I don't need like, here's a song from it, you know, like, you know, which is, but I

00:57:15   mean, as well, you said it, the music has been good for you for me.

00:57:18   Like, I don't know where the music comes from because I don't think I've hit a memory yet

00:57:23   with a song that I have in my music library.

00:57:25   So what, what it does is if you listen to Apple music on your device that you're viewing

00:57:31   the photos on, it knows what music you listen to on Apple music.

00:57:34   And, or maybe if it's, if it's in your iCloud account, so it knows it knows what photos

00:57:40   or what kinds of music you like.

00:57:42   It also has a library of photos that are of music that are allowed to be used with memories.

00:57:47   And it does some smart selection based on the kind of memory it is and based on the

00:57:55   music it knows about.

00:57:56   But yeah, I get, I get some options and you can tap and get different options for songs

00:58:02   and you can even pick your own, but I get some options that are songs I know.

00:58:07   And then there are other options where I'm like, Oh, this is a beach memories thing.

00:58:11   And this is a beach or summer or something song.

00:58:15   And that's, I think it's very clever.

00:58:17   - I have watched the movies and enjoyed them.

00:58:19   Like I'm not saying that it is that they've done a bad job, right?

00:58:23   Like I've watched a few of them and like, Oh, thank you.

00:58:25   But I don't always want to watch the movie.

00:58:28   Sometimes I just want to see the images and I kind of, it's annoyed me that it's like,

00:58:32   it always just wants to show me a movie now.

00:58:35   Like, and for me to try and stop it doing that is difficult.

00:58:39   - I like them.

00:58:40   I think they're, I think they're much better.

00:58:41   They used to have it be, it was kind of like an automatic album,

00:58:47   but it was also a movie that you could kind of edit,

00:58:51   but it was just sort of in the header.

00:58:52   And they basically thrown that away and said,

00:58:54   movies are now or memories are now these dynamic kind of slideshows

00:58:58   that you can tap through like a slideshow,

00:59:00   but you can also just let them play and the music goes,

00:59:02   you can edit them to add or remove memories if you really care,

00:59:05   you can discard them fairly easily.

00:59:07   I think they're much smarter.

00:59:08   I think the music selections are better than they were before.

00:59:11   They're also timed to the beat, which is very clever.

00:59:13   And they like auto sense and try to put on like a filter as well.

00:59:19   They are recognizing like they do different kinds of animations.

00:59:23   They're looking at like where the faces are and they're looking at sort of similar images

00:59:28   with different content in them and doing them like as a one, two punch of like,

00:59:33   there's a person staring at the camera and then a person smiling.

00:59:36   And there's a lot of intelligence behind it.

00:59:38   It's not perfect, but I feel like it's really good and easy.

00:59:43   And that combined with putting the photos widget out on my iPad home screen,

00:59:49   which is great, has unearthed all sorts of fun stuff that I would not have gone back to.

00:59:55   So I'm basically a proponent of it.

00:59:58   What I don't like about it is that it's not in Mac OS Monterey yet.

01:00:01   It's coming later.

01:00:03   So, I mean, it won't be there at launch of Monterey whenever that happens.

01:00:08   And so there's the old memories remain on the Mac for now,

01:00:11   but they are committed to replacing memories on the Mac as well.

01:00:14   Right.

01:00:14   I'm much more a fan of featured photos than memories.

01:00:17   I just like seeing old photos.

01:00:19   That's my favorite thing.

01:00:21   All right.

01:00:22   I maintain that I've mentioned this in the show before.

01:00:25   I really hate the shared with you thing in photos.

01:00:28   I really don't like just these random photos showing up in the library.

01:00:32   So the way it's supposed to work.

01:00:34   I know.

01:00:35   Is that if you, if it's a photo of you or a photo of at a location that it knows that you were at

01:00:42   a time and place that you were, it puts that thumbnail in your photos library with a little

01:00:47   tag on it that says this came from messages.

01:00:49   Somebody shared this with you and you can add it to your library or not, but it shows up in the

01:00:54   context.

01:00:55   It's a little bit weird, but when it works, it's a little more delightful.

01:01:00   You have said that it, that inappropriate photos are being inserted in your photos library.

01:01:05   It's not supposed to work that way.

01:01:06   Then again, it was a beta.

01:01:07   Maybe it works better now that it's final, but it's not supposed to work that way.

01:01:11   And I haven't seen that all the photos that have gotten inserted.

01:01:13   Like there was a photo from when I was at a baseball game and it was a picture Lauren took

01:01:18   and she sent it to me because I think it was literally, this is the beer they have, which

01:01:23   one do you want?

01:01:24   And, and that's in my library.

01:01:27   And it's like, well, I was there for that.

01:01:28   That makes sense.

01:01:29   It's actually part of that.

01:01:31   The better feature is that in messages, you get a little download arrow next to every photo

01:01:36   that somebody sends you.

01:01:37   And if you tap it, it adds it to your photos library, which is, should have been there a

01:01:41   long time ago, but now it's like super easy to add things to your photos library if you

01:01:45   want and shared with you out on the top level of the photos app shows you all the photos

01:01:50   that have been shared with you, which is useful because you can go in and say, yes, I do want

01:01:55   to add that in putting them in the context of your photos library.

01:01:59   I don't know.

01:02:00   I see what they're trying to do there.

01:02:01   I think maybe it should be more sacrosanct than that.

01:02:04   And, and, and not put it in the actual, like, show me all my photos, except also some other

01:02:10   photos that have gotten in here.

01:02:12   Cause that's maybe that was a metaphor that they shouldn't have broken.

01:02:16   Yeah, it doesn't, I found that it doesn't work for me, but even if it does work the

01:02:21   way that they want perfectly, I still would just prefer to choose just how I am.

01:02:26   Right.

01:02:27   You know, like if someone sends me a bunch of images, I will look through them and I

01:02:30   will save the ones I like.

01:02:31   Like that's just like a thing that I do.

01:02:33   I, for me personally, I don't need the phone to do that, but you can very easily turn it

01:02:38   off.

01:02:38   So I, I really disagree about the utility of shared with you in the, for you tab in

01:02:46   photos, because I, the thing I like about shared with you in general in iOS 15 is I

01:02:53   think it's really stupid to force people to go back and find a message in messages when

01:02:58   they know somebody sent them a link or a picture when the better context is in Safari and

01:03:04   photos.

01:03:05   I wish that that was all it did.

01:03:07   Like just in that there's a, in the for you page, I could get them, but I can't choose

01:03:12   to just have that.

01:03:14   And then also not have them show up in my recent or in my actual photo library.

01:03:19   In your actual photo.

01:03:19   Yeah.

01:03:19   And that I see that they have a toggle, but if you change that

01:03:23   toggle, it just resets itself after a certain period of time.

01:03:26   It's like, I wished that I could have the for you section in the, like the shared with

01:03:32   you in the for you section of the photos app.

01:03:35   I think that's really great.

01:03:36   But if I leave the setting on it, then also puts the images in my photo library, which

01:03:42   is not a thing that I want because it hasn't been reliable enough for me.

01:03:47   But even if it was, I still don't want that.

01:03:49   I still want to choose what images I put in my own photo library.

01:03:52   Um, but I can't, you know, it's either for me, it's like either don't have it on at all

01:03:58   or have it on and be annoyed.

01:04:00   So I decided to turn it off and I will just continue to work as I work before iOS 15.

01:04:05   But anyway, I want to get back to stuff I like, cause that really, I like most of this

01:04:11   stuff and then we've, I'm kind of just railing on this now.

01:04:14   Focus is great.

01:04:15   Uh, I've just set up one focus mode so far, which is for recording.

01:04:19   Uh, and I really liked that I'm able to say like, if such and such a person sends me a

01:04:24   message, they can come through and I'm intrigued to see as more apps get the time sensitive

01:04:29   stuff, which ones I'll allow in.

01:04:31   Um, in general, I think that the time sensitive notifications thing is cool.

01:04:37   I wished that I could define within an application myself, which type of notifications I think

01:04:46   are time sensitive rather than the developer.

01:04:49   You know what I mean?

01:04:49   Um, so, but you know, maybe that's something that will get a little bit more tweaking over

01:04:55   time.

01:04:56   Uh, but I do really like the focus mode.

01:04:58   I wanted to set up some more.

01:04:59   Uh, there was one I keep mentioning, but I think it's so cool.

01:05:02   Uh, Matt Bishoff, friend of the show, uh, set up a travel focus, which then creates like

01:05:07   to sets a bunch of preferences, but also makes your home screen, a travel focused home screen

01:05:12   with relative widgets and applications, stuff like that I think is really smart.

01:05:16   And so I want to do some stuff like that.

01:05:17   One of the things I like about focus that was unclear over the summer is apps supporting

01:05:24   focus makes a big difference.

01:05:26   So for example, Slack, where we get lots of messages supporting focus means that now when

01:05:37   I say I want to see messages from Myke, when I'm in this, when I'm in my work mode, Myke

01:05:42   can break through, but other people can't.

01:05:45   It knows when you are sending me a message in Slack and that you are Myke.

01:05:50   Um, and you get a, you get, and I don't know if this is cause I'm on a Slack beta.

01:05:56   It may not be out yet for everybody, but you start to get notifications that say, Oh, you

01:06:01   got a Slack message from Myke.

01:06:02   This seems to be Myke Hurley from your contacts.

01:06:05   Do you want me to add his Slack ID to your, to his contact?

01:06:09   So, um, I know that that's him.

01:06:12   And if you say yes, now it knows all your Slack messages are also you.

01:06:16   And to let them through when you're allowed by focus and like that is that extra level

01:06:23   that makes this all work better is if the apps support it, then everybody's working

01:06:28   together because it doesn't, it isn't so great when you say, I want to hear from Myke

01:06:34   and it goes, well, I don't know what Slack's doing, so I'm only going to send you iMessages

01:06:38   from Myke.

01:06:39   So it's gotten and we'll continue to get a lot better as apps support focus.

01:06:43   I haven't seen any of that myself yet.

01:06:46   Yeah, it must be the Slack beta that I'm on, but it's great.

01:06:48   It works really well.

01:06:50   So that will presumably be forthcoming to a Slack final release somewhere.

01:06:55   But, uh, the moment that they updated and I started getting those messages, which I think

01:06:59   was like Thursday last week, I, I, I started to nod and be like, Oh, okay.

01:07:04   Focus has now gotten a lot better just by that focus got way better for me.

01:07:08   Cause I get so many messages that are coming through in Slack.

01:07:11   Interesting.

01:07:11   Okay.

01:07:12   Yeah.

01:07:12   I haven't seen that, but I will, I hope that a lot of apps adopt that fast and then other

01:07:17   types of things like the Apple have done in the past.

01:07:20   My big problem with focus, and this is more for when we talk about Mac OS Monterey, whenever

01:07:24   that happens, but focus on the Mac isn't as good.

01:07:26   It's, it's re way more limited and disappointing in a lot of ways, but on iOS, I'm interested

01:07:35   in it.

01:07:36   I think the challenge is going to be how we, do we really use it?

01:07:41   And I think your suggestion of something like a travel focus, I feel like one of the great

01:07:45   benefits, I know Apple's trying this with their presets, but like, I think focus is

01:07:49   really going to work for people when they, when they get a focus idea that clicks with

01:07:53   them.

01:07:53   And they're like, yes, that is a scenario that I could be a part of, right?

01:07:56   Whether it's travel or when I'm working or whatever it is.

01:08:00   And in general, I like the idea of breaking do not disturb, which is such a blanket concept

01:08:05   up into individual little bits.

01:08:07   Yeah.

01:08:08   The only one I've set up right now is a recording focus.

01:08:12   And I'm gonna, I don't know, I'm going to tweak it a little bit more, but it is one

01:08:16   of those things where, like you were saying, was like, I've kind of wait until I'm getting

01:08:22   all of my apps updated, which are all happening today, right?

01:08:25   Like there's a bunch of stuff going on right now.

01:08:26   Like one password got an update.

01:08:28   They've put the web extension in their iOS app.

01:08:31   Like it, this is things like, this is always normal, right?

01:08:33   Like you can, you can play around on the beta as much as you want, but really this stuff

01:08:38   actually does unlock on release day when all of the apps that you use update to get all

01:08:43   of the features, the operating system supports.

01:08:45   Exactly.

01:08:45   And so I guess focus is clearly one of those ones.

01:08:49   I didn't even know that it could do that.

01:08:51   Like I knew that there was a way that apps could tie into it, but I didn't know that

01:08:55   the system would tell you.

01:08:56   And it's like a similar one.

01:08:57   I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I do like that it's there in notifications where

01:09:02   if you're getting a bunch of notifications from an app or a conversation, it's like,

01:09:06   Hey, do you want to mute this for a little bit?

01:09:08   And I like that it's there.

01:09:09   And I like that I can just say no.

01:09:11   And I have, I think I've used it once or twice.

01:09:13   So you're in a chatty group thread and you're just like, I don't want to respond to this

01:09:17   right now.

01:09:17   And you can just mute the notifications for like an hour or something, which I think is

01:09:21   it's kind of cool.

01:09:21   Um, there's, there, there are a lot of stuff going on in notifications.

01:09:27   Have you tried out any of the like summaries or anything like that?

01:09:31   No, I haven't.

01:09:32   I don't like it.

01:09:33   I tried it and I don't really, I don't really like it.

01:09:36   I also changed as like a new default setting where I think I noticed works with do not

01:09:41   disturb.

01:09:41   I don't know if this is the same for focuses in general where you can, uh, it will like

01:09:49   collapse all of the notifications you received during do not disturb into its own area.

01:09:54   And I don't like that.

01:09:57   I don't like that.

01:09:59   I don't like that because it's like now you have these like two separate sets of notifications

01:10:03   and so you can turn that off.

01:10:04   And I turn that off.

01:10:06   I use notifications pretty seldomly.

01:10:11   Right.

01:10:11   And I don't have a, a strategy for them because they generally just annoy me.

01:10:18   So I tend to just turn everything off about notifications except for very specific like

01:10:23   messages from people.

01:10:25   And even then it's much more about in the moment than it is about going back through

01:10:30   a list of them later.

01:10:31   Maybe when I wake up in the morning, that's about it.

01:10:33   Safari.

01:10:34   Yep.

01:10:35   I love Safari.

01:10:37   Okay.

01:10:37   I'm happy for you.

01:10:38   I have no, I mean, I don't have the bad feelings everybody else is cause I never used it during

01:10:45   the bad times, but yeah, I think, um, I think Safari on the iPhone is going to take people

01:10:52   some, it takes some getting used to, but actually is, is much better now.

01:10:55   Um, I do than it was over the summer.

01:10:58   I think the bar down at the bottom takes them getting used to, but it's actually not a bad

01:11:02   place for it.

01:11:03   And the fact that you can swipe between tabs and that the tabs are better rendered on the

01:11:07   iPhone is good on the iPad.

01:11:09   It's not as radical a change from 14 and they've, they've kind of D uh, Safari 15, a lot of

01:11:18   the stuff before the shipping.

01:11:19   However, I will say I think the TA the look of the tabs is, is kind of weird and dumb.

01:11:25   Um, I think a lot of people aren't going to like the colored background and you can turn

01:11:29   that off, which is fine.

01:11:31   And the one that I'm just going to rail against because it's, it's pointless is they have

01:11:36   the tabs.

01:11:37   And then if you have your favorites bar showing, it shows below the tabs, which doesn't make

01:11:42   sense because the favorites don't change when you change tabs.

01:11:45   And so they should be in the hierarchy above the tabs, not below the tabs.

01:11:49   I don't know why they're below the tabs.

01:11:51   It doesn't make any sense.

01:11:53   And Apple, please fix that.

01:11:55   But, um, you know, otherwise, um, I think it's, I think it's fine.

01:11:59   And I am very happy that there are extensions on iOS now for Safari.

01:12:03   That's a big win.

01:12:04   I think that's something I haven't really had much experience with yet and tab groups,

01:12:11   which is a good feature on the iPad.

01:12:13   Now you can tap and hold on the, a little sidebar icon and it pops up all your tab groups.

01:12:20   So it's very easy to get to them without opening the sidebar, which is good because I'm one

01:12:24   of those people who does not want that sidebar open, um, because I don't want to open it

01:12:27   and then do something and then close it again.

01:12:29   That's three taps.

01:12:30   I don't want to do that.

01:12:31   It's really annoying.

01:12:33   So I like that you can tap and hold and switch between tab groups and that they've done a

01:12:38   really good job.

01:12:38   If you tap and hold on a tab, you can send it off to another tab group.

01:12:43   That's also a really good feature.

01:12:44   I think it works really well on the iPad and I like tab groups as an idea.

01:12:49   It's not going to be for everybody, but the idea that you have sort of customizable tab

01:12:53   sets that sync across all your devices, I think it's really smart.

01:12:56   And then a lot of people are going to love it.

01:12:58   Yeah.

01:12:58   I'm big into the tab groups.

01:13:00   I have like a couple of different ones and I really liked them.

01:13:03   Well, I have all of my, I, I'm not a big over tab kind of person, but I

01:13:08   have products that I'm looking at for like, maybe I'll buy this and they sit forever in

01:13:15   my tabs and they're just off to the left and they just sit there.

01:13:18   And sometimes I accidentally close them and then forget that I was looking at them, which

01:13:22   is really dumb.

01:13:23   And now I have a tab group that they'll go in and they stay there until I need them.

01:13:28   And it's so much better because it's cleared out my main tab group and they just stay there

01:13:33   and they live there and I can find them when I need them.

01:13:35   I might steal that idea from you.

01:13:37   That's a good idea because I always have a lot of tabs for things I want to buy and they're

01:13:41   on different, different devices or whatever.

01:13:43   Right.

01:13:43   Similarly.

01:13:44   But for me, like I have a couple of businesses that I run and I do a lot of stuff in Safari

01:13:49   and now I can have more tabs open for those businesses and just keep them off in their

01:13:54   own little buckets.

01:13:55   And I just come to them when I need them.

01:13:57   And so I like that it, like, it means that I can not, I don't have to have 20 tabs open

01:14:03   everywhere all the time.

01:14:04   I can just put them into a bunch of buckets and hide them away and just come to them when

01:14:07   I need them.

01:14:08   And when I'm in that mode or I'm doing things for those particular businesses or whatever.

01:14:12   So I like that a lot.

01:14:14   That's, that's pretty nice.

01:14:15   I really like the bottom URL bar on the iPhone.

01:14:20   Yeah, I think it's smart.

01:14:22   I, um, I think you just got to get over your initial reaction to what the heck is this?

01:14:27   Why is it down there?

01:14:29   Is this some sort of mistake?

01:14:30   But I think if you live with it, you will actually like it.

01:14:32   The only issue I have is that the gesture to the gestures get in the way of the gestures

01:14:38   of the phone.

01:14:40   Like it's weird.

01:14:41   It's weird how close those two things are considering they do the exact same thing and

01:14:47   they look the same too when you're performing the gesture.

01:14:50   Like there have been many times where I've meant to like skip left to right on tabs and

01:14:54   have just changed app and say, Oh, okay.

01:14:57   But you know, it's like with a lot of these kinds of gestures, like at a certain point

01:15:01   you just like muscle memory them and I'm assuming that's going to be similar.

01:15:04   I really like widgets in the app library on the iPad.

01:15:08   Your story seems to suggest that I don't think you like them as much as me.

01:15:13   I like, okay.

01:15:14   I like widgets on the iPad.

01:15:17   We finally have freedom with them.

01:15:19   I like app library on the iPad.

01:15:23   I don't like app library.

01:15:25   I think it's a dumb redundant feature that isn't as useful as Apple thinks it is.

01:15:28   And that since you can search for apps in spotlight, I don't think it needs to exist.

01:15:33   I think you just need to have a list of apps somewhere.

01:15:35   What I like about app library is that it means that on the iPad, you can now remove apps

01:15:40   from your home screen and they stay on your device.

01:15:44   And that's great.

01:15:44   I have one screen for my iPad now and I love it.

01:15:47   And it's got multiple widgets on it, including widgets that aren't on the left side, which

01:15:52   is also great.

01:15:53   So that's all really good.

01:15:55   However, I feel like this is minimal effort from Apple.

01:16:01   Like we didn't get any of this in iPad OS 14, even though it was on the iPhone.

01:16:07   Instead, they just kind of kept it, the widgets in the sidebar and they didn't do app library.

01:16:11   And I thought, okay, well, I get it.

01:16:14   You got to prioritize.

01:16:15   We'll get it on iPad OS in iPad OS 15.

01:16:20   I think my assumption was that they would make an iPad version, maybe as part of a larger

01:16:28   rethinking of the home screen.

01:16:29   Cause I think the iPad home screen has never really made sense and still doesn't make sense.

01:16:34   And that's my disappointment is not that I don't like putting widgets on the home screen.

01:16:38   And it's not like what app library enables me to do in removing apps from my home screen

01:16:43   while keeping them on my device.

01:16:45   What I don't like is a couple of things.

01:16:48   One is it feels like the minimal amount of effort there.

01:16:52   It's not app library reinvented for the iPad.

01:16:54   It's literally app library.

01:16:56   It's not widgets on the home screen reinvented for the iPad.

01:16:59   And we changed the iPads.

01:17:01   All they did was they, they changed the size of the grid of the apps so that they match

01:17:06   the size of the widgets.

01:17:07   That's all they did.

01:17:09   And so I think the, actually the home screen on the iPad is kind of weirder now because

01:17:14   of the, the way that the apps are spaced.

01:17:18   So it's fine.

01:17:19   I like it on the base level of let me see if this is better than what was there before.

01:17:24   Yeah.

01:17:25   But if I'm analyzing this and writing a review of it, I got to say, this is the minimum that

01:17:33   I would have expected and no more.

01:17:35   And I'm disappointed because I think the iPad home screen really needs to be rethought and

01:17:40   it didn't happen.

01:17:42   And I also, while I like the fact that the iPad widgets can be placed.

01:17:49   So, you know, your apps all go in an order and that order is that order, whether you

01:17:53   rotate the screen or not, they don't flip around, they don't move around in different

01:17:56   places.

01:17:56   The sequence of the apps from left to right, top to bottom, like your is, you can't place

01:18:03   them dynamically.

01:18:04   They go in order.

01:18:04   The one thing that they did in iPadOS 15 that I appreciate is that widgets aren't like that.

01:18:10   You can separately place widgets in portrait and landscape and they stay where they are

01:18:16   in portrait and landscape.

01:18:17   When you rotate it, they move to the new location and then the apps flow around them.

01:18:21   I think that's clever.

01:18:22   I did not know that, Jason.

01:18:24   Oh yeah.

01:18:25   I thought that like, oh, I just thought that they were staying in place, but rotating and

01:18:31   like, if I moved them on one, it would change them on the other.

01:18:34   I don't think so.

01:18:35   I did not.

01:18:36   I did not know that.

01:18:37   Okay.

01:18:38   So that's one thing you can try.

01:18:40   Um, what I don't like is that it's like a wrestling match with the app icons to get

01:18:47   them to be like every time an app moves or a widget moves, all the app icons move.

01:18:53   And I end up in a situation where I want these apps down the left side, or these, these widgets

01:18:58   down the left side.

01:18:59   And suddenly one of the widgets has gotten kicked out and now it's over on the right

01:19:03   and some apps are in there where that widget was.

01:19:05   And I gotta be like, no, put the widget back where it is.

01:19:07   And then it pushes the lower widget out.

01:19:10   And then I have to move the lower widget out.

01:19:12   Like I it's so dumb, like that you have to keep pushing the widgets around to get the

01:19:18   apps to move in order to get the widgets to be where you want them to be.

01:19:22   I just, it's just, it's frustrating and it's dumb.

01:19:27   Like it should be better.

01:19:29   And so am I happy?

01:19:31   So this is the thing about reviewing an operating system, right?

01:19:34   Am I as a user grateful that this feature exists now?

01:19:36   Yes, I am grateful.

01:19:38   Thank you, Apple, for making this feature.

01:19:40   Am I as an observer of operating systems and usability and whatever else you want to say

01:19:45   that I am happy with how it's implemented?

01:19:48   No, I'm not.

01:19:49   I'm not.

01:19:49   I think they could have done a better job.

01:19:51   And I think that there are very particular parts of it that are frustrating to use, even

01:19:57   if the end result is good.

01:19:58   And like anytime you change something and the apps start rolling around and mixing with

01:20:02   the widgets again, and you got to fight to get them back and you got to play like Tetris,

01:20:06   to be like, well, if I put this here, now it kicks all those out.

01:20:10   Oh, now it's kicked it into another screen.

01:20:12   I'm going to have to get that app back later.

01:20:14   And you got to like have a strategy for how you move your widgets around on the screen.

01:20:17   You know, there's gotta be a better way.

01:20:19   And I think it comes down to Apple's refusal to allow more freeform placement of icons

01:20:27   on the screen, right?

01:20:29   Like, like you can't just say, I want this icon at bottom, right?

01:20:31   It's like, no, no, no icons go from top left to bottom, right?

01:20:35   In a sequence from left to right.

01:20:37   And they wrap around like their letters on a page.

01:20:40   That's how they work.

01:20:41   And they are unwilling to change that or have at least not changed it yet.

01:20:47   And I think they should.

01:20:48   So again, nice, but also super disappointing, like at the same time for me.

01:20:54   I think it's a pretty, like thinking about it now, just like looking at it, it's a really

01:21:01   strange decision that you still can't freeform, put app icons wherever you want.

01:21:05   Like, yeah, it's just weird that that's still like a thing.

01:21:11   Like, why do you care that much app?

01:21:15   Like, do you like, why do you care that?

01:21:17   Like if I only want five apps on my home screen, why did I have to start in the top?

01:21:23   Like, why, why, why do you care?

01:21:26   The optimist in me says that the app library thing is the start of a larger rethinking

01:21:31   of this because remember now we don't have to have every icon that of every app that

01:21:35   is installed.

01:21:36   It's like step one, but like, okay, where's step two?

01:21:40   And the iPad didn't get step two.

01:21:41   The iPad waited a year and got step one.

01:21:43   And that's the source of a lot of my frustration.

01:21:46   And also just the fact that it like the iPhone probably needs a home screen revision too.

01:21:53   But the iPad has always like literally always needed it.

01:21:57   Remember the first iPad came out and everybody said, wow, all those spaced out icons.

01:22:02   That's kind of weird.

01:22:03   We thought they'd do something different on the iPad.

01:22:05   I'm sure they'll fix that and they've never fixed it.

01:22:08   So I don't know, maybe something is coming.

01:22:10   Maybe they've got a whole list of things or maybe they think this is fine.

01:22:14   Like I said, I don't think app library is that great.

01:22:16   I think it's redundant with other features of the operating system and it doesn't really

01:22:19   make sense that they added it.

01:22:21   But also there are these other ways, like I'm frustrated by that too.

01:22:25   And I don't think the little dynamically generated app collections are particularly useful to

01:22:30   me.

01:22:30   I end up going to app library and being like, oh, it's app library.

01:22:34   I guess I could search here too, just like a Canon spotlight, but that's about all I

01:22:37   do.

01:22:38   So it is, it's kind of bananas that they have.

01:22:41   Yeah, you got a, you got a big iPad and you want to put that icon down here.

01:22:44   It's like, nope, it doesn't go down there.

01:22:46   It goes up.

01:22:47   That's the only place it can go is up.

01:22:48   - The only way is up, baby.

01:22:50   - The only way.

01:22:52   Can I, can I mention quick note?

01:22:53   Like quick note, and this is a kind of a theme of my feeling about iPad OS 15.

01:22:58   It's like good, but quick notes really good on the iPad.

01:23:06   It's not on the iPhone and it's pointless on the Mac because quick notes killer feature

01:23:12   is that it's a note window that floats over other apps on the Mac.

01:23:16   That's just a window.

01:23:18   So irrelevant really on the iPad, it is this moment where you're in an app and you drag

01:23:25   from the bottom, right?

01:23:26   And there's a little floating note window and you can write with a pencil or you can

01:23:29   type and you get a little note and it's context based and you can insert metadata from some

01:23:34   apps that if apps offer their metadata up, you can like add them to your note, which

01:23:38   is a really nice kind of clever way to annotate the note that you're, you're making.

01:23:44   And they, and Apple rolled in like a cool Safari feature where if you select text and

01:23:47   Safari on a particular page, it's linked so that if you go back to that page, the quick

01:23:51   note is there and it knows that it's there.

01:23:53   All that is good, but my larger point is really the killer feature of quick note is that Apple

01:24:01   is allowing a single system app in a single instance to float above other apps, which

01:24:08   is nice, but you know what would be nicer is if app windows could float above other

01:24:14   apps in general in iPad OS, which they should be able to do.

01:24:18   So while I applaud Apple for quick note, and I feel like quick note may be a glimmer of

01:24:24   what might be the future of the iPad at some point between quick note and the fact that

01:24:27   they've got those kind of floating windows, like in mail where there's like a message

01:24:31   window that's floating above the rest of the mail window.

01:24:34   Like there are glimmers of that, but in the, in the short term, I look at quick note and

01:24:41   I think, thank you for this interesting feature, but it's only really interesting because

01:24:45   of all of the limitations that you put on your operating system and like, so thanks

01:24:49   for taking off one of the chains.

01:24:51   So yeah, it's a good feature, but it really is only good because it can do what every

01:24:58   window on the Mac can do.

01:24:59   I guess the, I haven't tried it Monterey, right?

01:25:04   I haven't tried Monterey at all.

01:25:05   I guess you can tell me like the thing on an iPad OS that's, I like this

01:25:11   interesting and again, as more apps I'm seeing in release notes are updating on it and it's

01:25:15   cool is like, you get this little ability to like, just press a little button and you

01:25:19   can add a deep link to wherever you're looking at.

01:25:22   Do you get that on the Mac too?

01:25:24   Do you get that?

01:25:24   The metadata sharing is cool.

01:25:26   I don't know.

01:25:27   Honestly, I've, I've used it very little on the Mac because it's super boring.

01:25:30   Cause it's literally opening a window is what it is on the Mac.

01:25:34   It's like, Oh, it's a notes window with a note.

01:25:37   Like it's just not that interesting.

01:25:40   It is something to say though, that like, this is finally a feature for the iPad.

01:25:45   That's great for the iPad.

01:25:47   Like it's rare that this happens.

01:25:48   It's usually the other two that get it.

01:25:50   Right.

01:25:50   So like I will hand that to it, but it is really frustrating to me that I can't find

01:25:55   some way to do this on my iPhone.

01:25:58   My iPhone, especially screen is big enough to handle a floating window.

01:26:02   Right?

01:26:03   Like we can make that work.

01:26:04   It can do picture in picture.

01:26:06   I should be able to bring up a picture in picture size note window to do the similar

01:26:11   stuff.

01:26:11   I think the argument would be that if you bring in the note window and then you slide

01:26:14   up the keyboard, you don't really have any content visible other than your notes.

01:26:17   So you might as well just have it be in notes.

01:26:19   That would be their argument.

01:26:22   Yeah.

01:26:22   But then I can't, but like what I want to be able to do is the metadata thing, right?

01:26:26   Where like, you know, like I've got an email open and then I bring in a quick note type

01:26:30   of thing, write a note and then save it.

01:26:32   Right.

01:26:33   Like, yeah, I think I would want to do that.

01:26:35   And like that would be much quicker quick note, right?

01:26:39   Then it is on the iPad because like technically we're quick note on the iPad.

01:26:42   You could just have it open for ages and just write all your notes in it.

01:26:45   Right.

01:26:45   You could.

01:26:46   This is much more of a like, here's a little thing and a right.

01:26:49   And then I'm going to throw it away again.

01:26:51   I would like to see them do that.

01:26:54   Like really quick note on the iPhone.

01:26:56   It's just, it's like completely non-existent except the fact that there's now a folder

01:27:01   in the notes app.

01:27:02   You can see the notes from other devices.

01:27:04   So I like your point there, which is you don't really want, I mean, you could take notes,

01:27:08   but really the point of quick note on the iPhone is as a link collector for lack of

01:27:15   a better word, because you're on your iPhone and there's a webpage and you want to save

01:27:19   that webpage.

01:27:20   So you swipe out quick note and you add it to your note or pick what note you want it

01:27:24   to be in and add it.

01:27:26   And that's a, that's got value.

01:27:27   You know, you could do that with the share.

01:27:28   There are other ways to do exactly what you're describing, but I get what you're saying about

01:27:33   the quick access to add something like that.

01:27:36   This would be faster than doing the share extension, which I use all the time.

01:27:42   And I was excited by this and like, I was convinced that they said there was a way to

01:27:48   bring up a quick note on the iPhone from control center.

01:27:52   Like maybe I had a fever dream where that was a thing, but I'm convinced that they originally

01:27:57   said you could do that.

01:27:59   But it seems like, no.

01:28:01   Could we talk about iPadOS multitasking?

01:28:04   Yes.

01:28:05   I really like it as a new addition to the existing foundation.

01:28:11   Yeah, I think it's the start of something where they're trying to make things more discoverable.

01:28:15   And I think that having that multitask controller everywhere, first off, it's a drag handle.

01:28:20   So it's like, literally they are one more step closer to having windows on iOS where

01:28:25   you can click on it or tap on it and move it.

01:28:27   Like they're already laying the groundwork there, but it's so much more discoverable

01:28:31   to be able to tap on it and say, put this full screen or put this on the side.

01:28:35   And then you're in the home screen where you can pick the second app.

01:28:38   And then the second app comes up on the other side or put this in slide over.

01:28:41   Like multitasking on the iPad is not for everybody, but it's for more people than it used to be

01:28:47   because they added this interface for it.

01:28:50   And it also feels to me very much like step one of a larger process.

01:28:56   This combined with that floating window concept, the multi window concept, the idea

01:29:01   of the shelf that has the multiple windows for any given app.

01:29:05   Like it feels like step one of a longer process to do more sophisticated windowing or tiling

01:29:12   or whatever on the iPad in the future.

01:29:15   But even just as discoverable multitasking, I think it's a good step.

01:29:19   I continue to want it to go further, especially with the keyboard.

01:29:23   For sure.

01:29:23   During beta one, I got a feature I wanted that they removed and it never came back,

01:29:28   which was like full keyboard control of replacing both left and right window.

01:29:33   They changed it with like, you can only replace the active window and you have to switch them

01:29:37   around like that was a frustration, but it is better.

01:29:41   And that ties into the globe key, which is a, I like it.

01:29:43   It's a cool addition, just more stuff.

01:29:46   Yeah.

01:29:46   Like I've got this keyboard attached to it all the time.

01:29:49   Just give me more control with it.

01:29:50   It doesn't harm anyone.

01:29:52   I'm still really confused about why the globe key doesn't let you control brightness and

01:29:57   media and volume because Apple's keyboard for the iPad doesn't ship with a function row.

01:30:05   And they've created a globe key, which is for global keyboard shortcuts.

01:30:10   That's the whole idea is they made a new key that doesn't conflict with any existing app

01:30:15   shortcuts.

01:30:15   And yet if you want to raise the brightness or change the volume or pause the playback,

01:30:23   there's no globe key shortcut for that.

01:30:25   You have to use the UI.

01:30:26   You have to take your hands off the keyboard.

01:30:28   I don't understand it, but like, I feel like that's inevitable now that they've created

01:30:33   that globe key and also the, between the globe key and the command key, you have the the

01:30:38   floating menu thing, which used to be like a quick reference card.

01:30:41   And now it's more like a Mac menu bar.

01:30:43   And that's another sign of where they're going.

01:30:45   I feel like this release, a lot of this stuff is like scraps where you're like, Oh yes,

01:30:50   yes.

01:30:50   I'm so hungry that I want this scrap of a feature that is not great, but it's so much better

01:30:56   than we had before.

01:30:57   I'm happy with it, but it feels like behind the scenes, Apple knows where it's going with

01:31:01   this now.

01:31:02   It's not all there yet at all, but it feels like it's part of a plan to go somewhere else.

01:31:09   And I hope that's true because I don't know why you would build all of these sorts of

01:31:12   things and not stitch them together down the road.

01:31:15   But, you know, I, but in other ways I'm so dissatisfied with their lack of movement on

01:31:19   this stuff that, you know, I don't want to get my hopes up.

01:31:22   Anything more on iOS 15?

01:31:24   I don't know.

01:31:24   I think we covered a lot.

01:31:25   You know, there's a lot there.

01:31:27   There's a lot more for something that, you know, maybe we got a little bored of it too,

01:31:33   right?

01:31:33   Because it comes out in June and I think there's some malaise over the summer, but like there's

01:31:37   a lot of good stuff in there.

01:31:38   And I think that people are going to like a lot of this stuff when they get to it.

01:31:41   And then they may also hate that, that photos feature that Myke hates.

01:31:44   Yeah, but it will pick up, as I said, like it picks up again.

01:31:47   I'm like super excited to try out all of the, uh, the apps.

01:31:51   Yeah.

01:31:52   All the apps make it make a big difference.

01:31:55   Because like I said, with focus mode, once you get that Slack app, which our discord says

01:32:00   is out now, came just came out that Slack update, you know, you get all your messaging

01:32:04   updates that support focus mode and you connect it all together.

01:32:07   And now you've got much more control over your messages from people across all sorts

01:32:12   of different platforms, which is really nice.

01:32:14   Cause then you just pick the contact and say, this person gets through and it doesn't matter

01:32:18   what app they use.

01:32:20   They get through and everybody else doesn't when I'm in this focus mode.

01:32:23   And that's a, that's a good thing.

01:32:25   So the apps are going to be key there.

01:32:27   I look forward to setting up Jason only mode.

01:32:29   Yeah.

01:32:30   I've got, you know, Myke, Myke mode is coming.

01:32:32   This episode is brought to you by DoorDash.

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01:33:30   Jason, can you tell me something that you love about DoorDash?

01:33:33   I like the fact that when you're miserable and don't have any food in the house and need

01:33:37   to have dinner, um, that one thing you can do is go to the store, but another thing you

01:33:40   could do is just order it on DoorDash.

01:33:42   Uh, and they bring it to your house.

01:33:44   So that happened for my son's birthday, as I've mentioned before, I think that we, uh,

01:33:48   we, my, my, uh, my, oh, it was right before my son's birthday.

01:33:52   And I was thinking about his favorite burger place that we usually take him on his birthday.

01:33:56   And my wife was going out with friends over to a friend's house and, uh, he and I were

01:34:00   like, well, what are we going to do about dinner?

01:34:02   And I thought, oh, your favorite burger place.

01:34:04   And so DoorDash brought his favorite burger to our house.

01:34:08   And I also got one that I enjoyed, but it was his favorite.

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01:34:58   Let's do a couple of hashtag ask upgrade questions and we will finish out today's bumper episode.

01:35:05   First one comes from Mark.

01:35:06   Do you still, I thought this is interesting for iPhone

01:35:09   upgrade is do you still sync or back up your phone with a cable to your Mac?

01:35:14   I haven't done this in ages.

01:35:16   Yeah.

01:35:17   iCloud all the way for me now.

01:35:19   That's how I do it.

01:35:21   It tends to work pretty well.

01:35:22   I'll let you know next week how it goes.

01:35:25   I did see that they've, they've added some stuff in iOS 15 for that whole process.

01:35:33   So I will be like many of you I'm sure we'll, we'll be going through it.

01:35:36   So maybe we could talk about it last week.

01:35:38   We'd love to talk about upgrading.

01:35:39   I, I, yeah, we, one of my favorite episodes ever we did was talking about the upgrade experience,

01:35:43   which has gotten a lot better.

01:35:44   Not the, again, not the upgrade experience.

01:35:46   That is the experience of listening to the upgrade podcast, but the experience of upgrading

01:35:49   an Apple product.

01:35:50   Just want to be clear about that.

01:35:53   It is a lot better than it used to be when we did that episode.

01:35:55   They have, I'm not saying they listened to us.

01:35:57   I think it was more like we observed just how bad it was and they also observed just how

01:36:01   bad it was and it's better now and it is better in iOS 15.

01:36:04   There's a lot of really nice things about it.

01:36:07   In fact, now when you, when you wipe your device in iOS 15, it actually prompts you

01:36:11   and says, would you like me to back this up first?

01:36:13   And you can set it to transfer and do the transfer.

01:36:16   And like it, they're, they're really doing a much better job because the key is the day

01:36:21   you get your iPhone, your new iPhone should be a good day, not a frustrating day.

01:36:25   Right?

01:36:26   Like that is the key.

01:36:27   And it used to be super frustrating.

01:36:28   Dan Morin was telling me that people on the iPhone upgrade program, they now have like

01:36:36   a, they can get a transferable like eSIM or something like, so they're even making the,

01:36:40   the carrier SIM process easier as time goes on.

01:36:45   I like it.

01:36:46   So we'll see how it goes.

01:36:47   When there are new iPhones in our hands, I expect that there will probably be new iPhones

01:36:52   in both of our hands next week.

01:36:54   So we look forward to it.

01:36:55   I don't know if it's because I've done something or if Apple knows I bought a new phone, but

01:37:01   my settings right now say, get ready for your new phone.

01:37:04   Use iCloud to move your apps and data to your new phone.

01:37:07   I don't know.

01:37:09   Do they actually know?

01:37:10   It's like, cause I wasn't sure.

01:37:12   And I was like, Oh, hello.

01:37:14   I don't know if I've done something or if they're just like trying to prepare me, but

01:37:18   that's like a really interesting and weird thing to find in the setting.

01:37:21   Rajeev asks, do you think Apple will remove product numbers first from the iPhone or from

01:37:28   iOS?

01:37:33   I don't think Apple is going to be removing product numbers from the iPhone anytime soon,

01:37:36   but I think they'll do it before they do iOS.

01:37:38   Like I feel like iOS is always going to be numbered because you need a version number

01:37:42   and people care less about software version numbers than hardware version numbers.

01:37:45   Apple might do something weird where they, you know, do different numbers and different

01:37:49   names and reset the numbers at some point.

01:37:51   But, um, you know, they could eventually call it like iOS, blah, blah, blah.

01:37:57   Right.

01:37:57   Like they do with Mac OS.

01:37:59   Yeah.

01:37:59   But they'll, they'll still be a number there.

01:38:01   And I think they won't.

01:38:02   I think it's more likely that Mac OS just gets numbered at some point instead of having

01:38:05   a name.

01:38:05   So, but either way, um, I think this is one of those infinite timescale arguments that

01:38:10   may be a very long time, but I would say the iPhone first.

01:38:13   James Thompson's posted in the discord chat that he also sees the transfer or reset iPhone

01:38:21   thing in the settings.

01:38:22   It's just like in the top level of the settings.

01:38:24   And like, I'm happy that it's there, but it's also weird.

01:38:27   It's still weird to see stuff like that.

01:38:29   Like, hang on phone.

01:38:30   How do you know you're being replaced?

01:38:32   Are you going to start freaking out on me now?

01:38:33   Portphone.

01:38:34   The idea there.

01:38:34   Yeah.

01:38:35   I mean, the idea there is that you can just erase your phone, but it's also letting you,

01:38:39   uh, get ready to transfer.

01:38:41   It's it's, uh, it's nice.

01:38:42   It's clever.

01:38:44   And final question that comes from Kim.

01:38:46   Is the iPhone 13 mini's camera better than the iPhone 11 pro camera?

01:38:53   So I did a bit of research for this one, Jason, and I picked out a selection of things that

01:38:58   are different and it's kind of, it's going to be up to Kim to decide if they think this

01:39:03   is better because like, you know, the cameras in the eye of the beholder and all that, uh,

01:39:08   the mini has no telephoto lens.

01:39:10   So if a telephoto lens is important to you, 11 pro has the win on that.

01:39:16   The iPhone mini has Dolby vision HDR and will also have cinematic mode.

01:39:22   So if good quality video is something you want, then great.

01:39:28   And also has sensor shift, optical image stabilization that was new with the 13 and 13

01:39:35   mini this time around.

01:39:36   So I mean, the lenses may also be better, but I'm not really the person.

01:39:42   I don't know how to judge that kind of stuff.

01:39:44   You know, I think the low light performance is better from the iPhone 11 pro to the 13.

01:39:49   Um, so that would be in the mix there.

01:39:54   Um, and the image signal processor is probably better too.

01:39:58   Um, so there's, there's a bit there.

01:40:03   I think the, I think your screen display is a lot is brighter too, which is good for looking

01:40:09   back at those photos.

01:40:10   But in terms of the cameras, yeah, I think the big changes, it's probably a little bit

01:40:13   better, but not a lot.

01:40:15   And you'll do lose the telephoto lens, but you do gain some of these other modes, including

01:40:19   night mode time lapse, and you get the sensor shift, optical image stabilization and photographic

01:40:26   styles.

01:40:27   Yeah.

01:40:27   I feel like the answer to this is like, yes, with the asterisk of you do lose one dedicated

01:40:32   lens, but you're losing.

01:40:33   Yeah, you're losing your telephoto lens, but everything else is better.

01:40:37   So it's probably worth it.

01:40:39   Maybe if you'd like to send in a question for a future episode, then you can send out

01:40:45   a tweet with the hashtag and ask upgrade or use question Mark.

01:40:48   Ask upgrade in the relay FM members discord that gets, uh, you could also get access to

01:40:54   if you are an upgrade plus member, go to get upgrade plus.com.

01:40:58   And not only do you get all these wonderful benefits, you also get longer ad free episodes

01:41:03   of upgrade every single week and all time we publish an episode.

01:41:08   So if there is an extra episode, you got a longer one there too.

01:41:11   So go to get upgrade plus.com and you can sign up.

01:41:15   I'd like to thank everybody that has.

01:41:16   I'd also like to thank door dash and Squarespace and LinkedIn jobs for their support of this

01:41:21   week's episode.

01:41:22   And of course, thank you for listening.

01:41:24   If you want to go and read some wonderful coverage of everything that Apple's up to

01:41:28   at the moment, uh, he was go to six colors.com.

01:41:30   It's prime location, prime destination.

01:41:32   You can also find Jason online.

01:41:35   He's at Jason now, J S N E double L I am at I Myke I M Y K E and we'll be back next week.

01:41:42   Probably with a bunch of new hardware.

01:41:47   And iPhone review type episodes.

01:41:50   So that's going to be a big bumper one next one, uh, too.

01:41:52   So look out for that until then say goodbye.

01:41:55   Jason.

01:41:55   So now goodbye.

01:41:56   Bye.