363: Our App Is a Game Now


00:00:00   [Intro music]

00:00:13   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 363, and today's show is brought to you by Calm,

00:00:19   FitBud, Holo, and Bombus.

00:00:22   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:24   Hi, Jason.

00:00:25   Hi, Myke.

00:00:26   How are you?

00:00:27   I am fine and dandy, my friend.

00:00:28   How are you?

00:00:29   I'm fine.

00:00:30   You know, it's Monday morning, so I'm waking up, but that's what Upgrade is for.

00:00:34   It wakes me up.

00:00:35   Makes me ready to start my week.

00:00:38   I have a #snowtalk question for you from Marlies, who asks, "Who is your favorite AFC Richmond

00:00:42   player?"

00:00:43   Oh, the Ted Lasso question to start.

00:00:46   I love it, as we enter season two of Ted Lasso.

00:00:49   I'm going to say Sam.

00:00:51   I love Sam.

00:00:52   I love Sam too, but football is life, my friend.

00:00:55   Well, the obvious answer is Danny Rojas, Rojas, Danny Rojas.

00:01:02   But I like Sam.

00:01:03   There you go.

00:01:04   Sam is a quieter character, but I love his growth and there are some great scenes between

00:01:10   him and Ted in season one and I like it.

00:01:12   All time, it's Roy Kent, obviously.

00:01:14   All time AFC Richmond player.

00:01:16   He's here.

00:01:17   He's there.

00:01:18   Roy's the great.

00:01:19   He's everywhere.

00:01:20   I wonder if we were going to do it.

00:01:22   We didn't do it.

00:01:23   That's great.

00:01:24   We are actually going to be talking about Ted Lasso later on in today's episode for

00:01:28   the summer of fun.

00:01:29   We're doing two Myke at the Movies segments today.

00:01:31   What?

00:01:32   We're going to talk about Loki.

00:01:33   Now they're Witcher about movies.

00:01:34   Yep.

00:01:35   Myke at the television.

00:01:36   Myke at the mumble, mumble, mumble.

00:01:38   Myke at the streaming services.

00:01:39   Mass, which is weird.

00:01:42   Matt's, Matt's.

00:01:44   Myke at the streaming services.

00:01:45   Getting weird all the time.

00:01:46   We're going to talk about Loki and we're going to talk about Ted Lasso, season two, episode

00:01:50   one.

00:01:51   So we're going to be a little later on.

00:01:52   If you would like to send in a Snell Talk question to help us open the show, just send

00:01:56   in a tweet with the hashtag Snell Talk.

00:01:57   I use question mark Snell Talk in the relay FM members discord.

00:02:02   Follow up Jason Snell.

00:02:04   Apple have delayed their return to the office for their employees by at least a month due

00:02:09   to rising COVID cases spurred on by Delta variant.

00:02:15   So this is reported by Bloomberg.

00:02:18   Basically at this point, they're going to be giving a month's notice as to when any

00:02:22   return will be due, but it's not going to happen anytime before.

00:02:26   I think they said, sorry, it's expected to happen sometime possibly in October.

00:02:31   This is what was suggested in rumors, but it's not going to be happening for the time

00:02:35   being.

00:02:36   This, I mean, could possibly, I've seen some of the people say this could possibly give

00:02:40   them time if they wanted to rethink any of their policies in general, because they've

00:02:45   been under fire for some of the policies that they've had, but nevertheless, it's being

00:02:49   delayed like many things are always constantly.

00:02:52   Yeah, I think it's, I don't know, it, they may, time may give them the opportunity to

00:03:01   revisit things, but I think the truth is that if Apple's cultural approach to work is going

00:03:08   to change, it's probably going to change being forged in the fires of being back to work

00:03:15   and having people resist and not sort of like before that happens.

00:03:19   So this may just put off whatever reckoning is going to happen rather than precipitate

00:03:24   a new one.

00:03:25   That's my guess.

00:03:26   So let's turn our attention now to Upstream where we look at some of the news in streaming

00:03:32   video services.

00:03:35   CNN has announced CNN Plus.

00:03:38   This happened last week, but I think we had too much to put in the show.

00:03:42   CNN will be hiring hundreds of people to create brand new programming that will exist side

00:03:47   by side with their existing television network.

00:03:50   They're looking at about eight hours of daily programming, effectively creating a second

00:03:56   video TV network.

00:03:58   They will not be able to share content between them launching in 2022.

00:04:02   Can you try and explain to people, maybe especially those who don't really, maybe not in America,

00:04:06   don't pay attention to CNN, what on earth they're doing here?

00:04:10   Because it's weird.

00:04:11   We talked about this briefly, and the idea here is why is some stuff not on streaming?

00:04:17   Why are some organizations, when everybody is barreling toward the streaming future,

00:04:22   some things are not on streaming?

00:04:23   And this is a great example.

00:04:25   CNN is owned by WarnerMedia because it's one of the Turner assets that was in the Time

00:04:34   Warner purchase of Turner.

00:04:36   And so WarnerMedia owns CNN.

00:04:40   And WarnerMedia, as we've detailed here across many, many months, has gone all in on HBO

00:04:45   Max for streaming.

00:04:48   And CNN is not on HBO Max.

00:04:50   Why is that?

00:04:51   What are they doing?

00:04:54   The answer is, and this is the reason why ESPN proper isn't on ESPN Plus, right?

00:05:03   There's an ESPN Plus, it does not contain ESPN, unless you're a cable subscriber and

00:05:07   you log in.

00:05:08   But like, if you just, if you're a cord cutter and you just pay for ESPN Plus, you don't

00:05:12   see what's on ESPN, the channel.

00:05:16   And the reason is the cable TV business model.

00:05:21   The reason is that CNN makes a huge amount of money from every single cable subscription

00:05:30   because the cable companies are paying a certain amount of money per subscriber for CNN or

00:05:37   for the Turner package of channels.

00:05:42   This is all just, this is how in the pre-streaming world, this is how it worked.

00:05:46   This is how the money worked is you paid your cable company and then your cable company

00:05:51   paid pennies or dollars depending.

00:05:55   ESPN is actually, I think, the most expensive, but you don't get a chance.

00:05:58   It's not a la carte.

00:05:59   Like they cut up your bill and they send this money to these guys and this money to these

00:06:04   guys and that's how they bundle together the programming.

00:06:07   So we can debate the intelligence or stupidity of the cable bundle, but it's kind of irrelevant

00:06:12   now because it's all going away.

00:06:14   Except that if you run CNN and you say we should do a streaming service version of CNN,

00:06:21   or I guess step one would be, why don't we take CNN and put it on streaming?

00:06:24   And the answer is, well, we've got these contracts with cable companies that generate billion

00:06:30   dollars a year or more for us.

00:06:34   And so we can't, we can't because we will kill this enormous revenue stream, which is

00:06:39   the money we get from cable.

00:06:41   And I don't know the details of the CNN contract.

00:06:43   It seems to me, because you could potentially offer, this is what HBO did, right?

00:06:47   HBO did HBO now and basically sold HBO outside of the cable bundle, but HBO was a premium.

00:06:54   So it was not being bundled in with regular cable.

00:06:58   You had to pay extra for it.

00:06:59   And then that money went to HBO.

00:07:01   This is on a, you know, just standard, like literally everybody who gets cable gets CNN

00:07:07   and they get the money from it.

00:07:09   So it's probably true that they can't offer it on streaming or they'll lose a huge amount

00:07:15   of money.

00:07:16   What what's funny is that it's driven them to this.

00:07:20   It's driven them to create CNN Plus.

00:07:23   Great name guys.

00:07:24   Great name.

00:07:25   We did it.

00:07:26   Job done.

00:07:27   Everybody knock off early.

00:07:28   We have passed the point where Upgrade Plus seems like a joke.

00:07:32   Like it was a joke about how silly it is to name something Plus.

00:07:38   But now it just feels like it's just the name.

00:07:40   And so like we've passed that event horizon now where obviously Upgrade Plus would be

00:07:45   the logical name rather than the joke name.

00:07:48   Yeah.

00:07:49   Remember Peacock Plus?

00:07:50   Peacock Plus.

00:07:51   That happened.

00:07:52   So here's what they're doing.

00:07:57   And I fully expect that other companies will do something like this.

00:08:03   I'm actually surprised that there is not a linear live ESPN Plus.

00:08:10   That it's just kind of on demand content.

00:08:13   And maybe it's not necessary because ESPN, for those who are not, I'm an ESPN Plus subscriber.

00:08:18   The brilliance of ESPN Plus is they take all of the, it's not like Sports Center 24 hours

00:08:23   a day.

00:08:24   And all of these sports that are not high profile enough to be on their three, four

00:08:30   linear cable channels, there are a lot of ESPNs.

00:08:33   And they just put them on ESPN Plus simultaneously, right?

00:08:36   Because it's not linear.

00:08:37   So you can put like 40 college baseball games on simultaneously and it just doesn't matter

00:08:43   because it's on ESPN Plus.

00:08:44   It's a streaming service.

00:08:45   Pick what you want.

00:08:46   It's a very different thing.

00:08:47   But there is something to the kind of like what's happening now, the quest for what's

00:08:53   happening now.

00:08:54   I'm not surprised there isn't 24 hour a day Sports Center on ESPN Plus, but CNN is going

00:08:58   to do this.

00:08:59   CNN is going to build a parallel CNN for streaming called CNN Plus.

00:09:05   They're going to hire a bunch of people.

00:09:07   It's going to run again in parallel a different world of CNN.

00:09:13   And because they can't take the CNN content, they got to make their own.

00:09:18   That said, I would predict that what's going to start happening because this streaming

00:09:24   service is going to be important to them is that they're going to start using their talent

00:09:29   across if their shows don't.

00:09:32   So imagine there's a show called Beltway Beat starring their incredibly popular host.

00:09:45   Wolf Blitzer.

00:09:49   Let's say Wolf Blitzer.

00:09:50   He's a real guy.

00:09:51   He's got the situation.

00:09:52   Well, I'm going to make this a real thing.

00:09:54   The situation room and it goes for two hours a day and it's got Wolf Blitzer on it.

00:09:57   I would not be surprised if like one of those hours goes to CNN Plus at some point or there's

00:10:05   another show called Beltway Blitzer that follows the situation room but is on the other network.

00:10:11   I just I don't know what the legal issues are here in terms of how they can take their

00:10:15   talent and all of that.

00:10:16   But if you're building a parallel CNN, I do wonder if you effectively are going to sort

00:10:21   of like half program both of them in order to get your stars on the other side so you

00:10:26   can create seriously you can create a new replica of CNN but for streaming in order

00:10:34   to keep that sweet, sweet cable money coming in while also building a streaming brand.

00:10:39   It's silly.

00:10:40   It's ridiculous but this is the kind of thing that a corporation is going to do if there's

00:10:44   a really large amount of money that they need to protect but they don't want…

00:10:50   There's still money to be made, right?

00:10:52   There's money and future growth opportunity is all on the other side.

00:10:56   This is a it's a short way a long way of saying the short version is it's the innovators dilemma,

00:11:01   right, which is they've got an existing brand that throws off huge amounts of cash and it's

00:11:05   obviously not the future.

00:11:07   What do you do?

00:11:08   You can milk that one.

00:11:09   Great.

00:11:10   But what about the future and you can ignore the future and then die or you can create

00:11:14   something new for the future and they probably should have done this as is often the case

00:11:19   with the innovators dilemma.

00:11:20   They probably should have done this five years ago but and in fact some of their competitors

00:11:24   did.

00:11:25   NBC News has a streaming channel.

00:11:27   CBS News has a streaming channel.

00:11:29   ABC News has a streaming channel.

00:11:31   Like there are Fox News has its own pay streaming service like CNN kind of weirdly late to the

00:11:39   game here.

00:11:40   I understand why because of all the money that's bound up in those cable contracts but

00:11:46   this shows you I just I think this is the perfect story in showing you what an absurd

00:11:50   place we're currently in in terms of television that they are going to build a second CNN

00:11:55   that is well it's not there's headline news so it's like an additional CNN yet another

00:11:59   CNN that's going to be the same as CNN like it's going to be the same but different because

00:12:08   they want to do both and they can't just do what the logical thing would be which is just

00:12:12   offer CNN.

00:12:13   Nope can't do that.

00:12:16   So instead put a plus on it.

00:12:18   That'll be great.

00:12:19   Let's do that.

00:12:20   Put a plus on it.

00:12:21   Apple is hiring an engineer to be a part of a team called Apple Sports.

00:12:26   This is a role based in New York and part of the TV app services team.

00:12:31   A quote from this is we are looking for an outstanding full stack software engineer to

00:12:36   join the Apple TV sports team and help us build the next generation of products that

00:12:41   change the way millions of fans experience and consume sports.

00:12:46   We don't know what this means but I've never heard Apple Sports before.

00:12:50   This is Apple TV Sports.

00:12:52   This to me is confirmation that Apple we don't know what they're going to do.

00:12:56   We've talked about it here but like we don't know what they're going to do but Apple is

00:12:59   very much interested in the idea of live sports as a possible future for their streaming service.

00:13:08   That live sports is one of those areas that as the cable cord cutting picks up the pace

00:13:15   right as that continues you're going to start to see the economics of right now sports TV

00:13:23   contracts are inflated because cable companies wanted to use live sports as a way to keep

00:13:27   people paying for cable.

00:13:28   We are very rapidly moving to a new world where sports contracts are still inflated

00:13:35   but they're inflated by streaming services wanting to bid on them so that they'll get

00:13:41   you to subscribe to their streaming service.

00:13:45   We've seen the stories about Apple sort of sniffing around some different sports properties,

00:13:50   the Pac-12 network, NFL Sunday ticket and I don't know whether any of those will come

00:13:57   to fruition but it looks to me like they're building their own version of BAM Media which

00:14:05   was the thing that started at Major League Baseball and then got bought by Disney.

00:14:09   That is the basis of Disney's sort of streaming infrastructure which includes and you know

00:14:15   it's not just Disney Plus it's ESPN.

00:14:16   It's a live streaming infrastructure as well and I think that that is clearly what Apple

00:14:21   is working on here.

00:14:23   The more I think about it the more I think that when we were talking about NFL Sunday

00:14:26   ticket I wonder if we're actually looking at an additional Apple TV Plus service like

00:14:34   an additional Apple service that's a sports streaming service that might be separate from

00:14:40   the entertainment streaming service right?

00:14:43   It seems harder to pull off.

00:14:45   You can't create your own sports like you can create your own TV shows you know.

00:14:49   Yeah but you can buy it.

00:14:51   I mean this is what ESPN Plus is, is you're buying rights and putting them together for

00:14:56   sports and then you just need enough to get people in the door.

00:14:59   I don't know.

00:15:00   Apple's got so much money that it's I think a little less like for Disney it's a fundamental

00:15:09   part of their business.

00:15:11   This is how they're going to make money.

00:15:12   For Apple it's more like an ancillary part of their business so Apple's business model

00:15:16   considerations are way more complex here but I just this job posting was one of those things

00:15:21   that made me sit up and be like ah that's a great indicator of where Apple is going

00:15:25   here.

00:15:26   We don't know what those sports will be.

00:15:27   They don't maybe even know what those sports would be but Apple is focusing on this infrastructure

00:15:32   team for sports and why sports and the answer is it's because it's live.

00:15:36   That's why sports is that you're you know when they release Ted Lasso they release it

00:15:43   at midnight Pacific on a Thursday night Friday morning which means that as the day goes on

00:15:50   across the globe people watch it kind of spread over 24 hours or they get to it the next day

00:15:55   or the day after that or whatever.

00:15:57   Last sports is live 100% viewers watching in the moment and they want it to be rock

00:16:03   solid and it's just a very different set of standards for how you do streaming media to

00:16:13   do live sports.

00:16:14   So that is that's the tip off here.

00:16:17   Apple I think is serious about live sports.

00:16:21   We just don't know what they will be yet but like they're going to have to build an infrastructure

00:16:24   for it anyway and that looks like that's what they're doing.

00:16:26   ELYSE You mentioned a minute ago that they can do kind of whatever they want because

00:16:30   they have so much money.

00:16:33   According to a report from the Wall Street Journal Apple is looking to acquire a large

00:16:36   studio space in LA for their Apple Studios based content.

00:16:40   They're looking for half a million square feet for multiple TV shows and movies that

00:16:46   can be made concurrently.

00:16:48   Currently right now in LA it's becoming increasingly difficult to rent space so Apple has just

00:16:53   decided they're going to own it.

00:16:55   BRIAN PENNY PTV has actually really changed this.

00:16:58   It sounds like there's a state of California assigned some there like some sort of subsidy

00:17:04   thing too that is in part the goal is to increase the amount of studio space that's available

00:17:09   in the LA area for shooting.

00:17:12   I did see somebody speculated that maybe Apple should buy Sony pictures just to get their

00:17:17   lot.

00:17:18   ELYSE Just to get this right.

00:17:19   At a certain point it might become cheaper to buy an entire company than to try and find

00:17:25   half a million square feet.

00:17:27   Because the way that the Wall Street Journal reports it is that Apple ideally would like

00:17:31   to set this up as effectively a campus in LA that's theirs.

00:17:34   BRIAN PENNY Well Apple's already got so they've got their

00:17:37   TV offices are in Santa Monica.

00:17:39   They've also got their fitness studio which is I think in that general vicinity so like

00:17:43   Apple is already.

00:17:44   ELYSE They have stuff in Culver City too right?

00:17:45   BRIAN PENNY Yeah so they're spending a lot of money on

00:17:49   resources in LA as a for this part of the business.

00:17:54   So yeah I'm sure they would love it if they could just build their own LA campus that

00:18:00   had studio space and offices for their execs and all of that stuff.

00:18:06   If this is a long term play for them then what this is just another version of that

00:18:10   same old Apple story right which is Apple wants to control what it can control of its

00:18:15   own stuff and renting space out has got to be uncomfortable for Apple even if it's a

00:18:19   thing you do.

00:18:20   Honestly the guys who run Apple TV Plus who were Sony executives by the way like they

00:18:26   used to have their own studio space at Sony so now they don't.

00:18:32   I don't know we'll see where this goes but yeah it's Apple has not been doing this that

00:18:38   long and they're already like we would like to own some studio space now.

00:18:42   We don't want to rent anymore.

00:18:43   ELYSE John Stewart has also posted the first teaser

00:18:45   for his upcoming show on Apple TV Plus.

00:18:49   So my expectation is this is like a sketch that they made I don't think it's ever gonna

00:18:55   be used in the show?

00:18:57   BRIAN KENNY It's a teaser in the sense that is it is a

00:19:00   comedy sketch it's a topical comedy sketch that their writers came up with that they

00:19:09   thought would be a great way to get attention on the internet and remind people that John

00:19:14   Stewart's show is coming to Apple TV Plus.

00:19:16   That's what it is.

00:19:17   It's not like a trailer for what John Stewart's show is going to actually be like it's more

00:19:22   like we can gain attention and get people to notice that we're coming back to TV that

00:19:27   John is coming back to TV by doing a comedy bit on the internet.

00:19:30   ELYSE I imagine the show would include sketches

00:19:34   I would imagine right?

00:19:35   BRIAN KENNY I would imagine.

00:19:37   ELYSE This one Mox the Billionaire Space Race it's

00:19:41   got a pretty star-studded cast like Jason Alexander and Tracy Jordan were in it which

00:19:45   was a surprise to me like it wasn't really my style of comedy but I understand why people

00:19:53   thought why people liked it I don't know it wasn't really my taste but I know that it

00:20:00   was a lot of a lot of penis jokes yeah because it's about the billionaires yeah launching

00:20:06   their phallic rockets into space and like yeah I didn't think it was that funny but

00:20:13   I thought it was not a bad calling card to just be like hey look at us we're gonna be

00:20:17   a reverend and we're gonna spend a lot of money so watch our show when it comes out

00:20:22   this fall.

00:20:23   MATT WILSON Yeah and it's coming September I saw another

00:20:24   reports or it's not a report like just a note somewhere else that they started shooting

00:20:29   it in front of an audience a couple of weeks ago so I still can't get my head around it

00:20:34   like how topical it will be able to be I'm not sure how I'm I'm really intrigued to see

00:20:42   what the show ends up being like.

00:20:44   COREY Yeah I am too this is one of those cases where

00:20:49   there are a bunch of different models there's the extreme topical model which is Daily Show

00:20:55   and Colbert where they're on four days a week and they are writing jokes about that day

00:21:03   to do that day and then broadcast that day then there's the John Oliver model which is

00:21:10   you know there are a bunch of shows that do that but I think his is a great example of

00:21:13   it where it's a weekly show and and there's a topical portion of it that is about that

00:21:18   week and then there's also a deeply researched segment that is about a single topic that

00:21:24   is obviously not something that they worked on in a week it's taken them many weeks to

00:21:28   do the way they've they've announced the Stewart show it's that it is a single topic show so

00:21:35   my guess is that it probably won't be that topical because they're I mean it'll be literally

00:21:42   topical in the sense it's about a topic but you know what I mean it's not gonna be as

00:21:45   current it's not gonna be current about like something that happened this week because

00:21:50   they're gonna take their time to build these things out about issues that they think matter

00:21:54   and then talk about them so my guess is my gut feeling is it's going to be like John

00:21:58   Oliver show except even more so if you can imagine like even more just about the subject

00:22:05   and not what Oliver does which is sort of do a weekly recap at the top of the show before

00:22:10   they go into the topic they could do that though but even their topics see very frequently

00:22:15   not always but like the topics and last week tonight even the in-depth stuff is stuff that's

00:22:19   happened can kind of happen very recently and I get but and that's the benefit of like

00:22:26   you produce it and release it in a very short space of time right because that's how you

00:22:30   get around things being old by the time that they're out and maybe you know maybe the Jon

00:22:36   Stewart thing like they're getting their sea legs right so they're producing some stuff

00:22:40   that they know isn't going to change isn't going to be in the news and then maybe as

00:22:44   the series goes on they could do stuff that's like all right we're gonna go deep dive on

00:22:48   a thing that's happening right now but it's been going on for a long time or we have something

00:22:52   to say on it and we're gonna get out right five days you know right right they could

00:22:56   yeah there are a bunch of ways to do this where you could you could have multiple things

00:23:02   in process and something happens and you say let's move that up and then you put an intro

00:23:08   on it or that is oh this is relevant because of X but we've been working on it and here

00:23:13   it is yeah and that's why I'm kind of fascinated to see this also after all this time away

00:23:19   I'm also interested in sort of like what does Jon Stewart want it to be because Jon Stewart

00:23:22   kind of could write his own ticket and I think that he was burned out on the Daily Show and

00:23:27   so this is sort of like he's writing his own concept of like what's not going to get me

00:23:32   burned out what's a level of pace that I'm willing to do stuff that he cares about is

00:23:36   what he cares about and once a week like I think some of the things are related to cause

00:23:40   is that he supports and stuff so it's like there is a more of a driving force to this

00:23:46   maybe than just like hey what happened this week let me make some jokes on it right it's

00:23:50   like here's a bunch of stuff I care about deeply and I'm going to make shows and it's

00:23:55   only once a week and it's for a fewer number of weeks than the Daily Show on top of it

00:23:59   so it's a lot less work it's like it's there isn't necessarily going to be weekly either

00:24:05   like I don't believe that that's been set I was seeing some conversation around like

00:24:10   you might get one this week and one next week and then one in a few weeks which honestly

00:24:13   is like last week tonight as well which seems for me almost impossible to know when there

00:24:18   are new episodes. Well because they take breaks which is what happens with the Daily Show

00:24:22   as well as they've got their various hiatuses they're not on every week they take breaks

00:24:26   so yeah looking forward to it what's the what's it going to be like there's so many different

00:24:31   ways they could go so that's kind of fascinating.

00:24:34   This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Calm. Business leaders know that healthy

00:24:38   happy employees can create successful companies no matter what industry they're a part of

00:24:43   and Calm for Business can help your employees be their best selves at work. At Calm they

00:24:48   want to help you kickstart your mental well-being initiatives empowering employees to stress

00:24:53   less, rest better and build resilience it should be a year-round priority and with Calm

00:24:58   for Business companies can partner with the number one mental fitness app to provide support

00:25:02   and tools that are employees. I've been checking out Calm personally recently and I really

00:25:08   like it a lot I actually really love that the way that the app's designed especially

00:25:12   if you have headphones in like as soon as you open it you're met with like calming background

00:25:16   sounds as you're going through the library to pick out something you want to listen to

00:25:20   like when I'm having like a stressful day or a busy day I know how important it can

00:25:24   be for me to take a minute to relax because it helps me focus on everything that's coming

00:25:28   on later and Calm has a ton of great options whether you're looking for something just

00:25:32   like that to help you know bring you back to a level point or you're looking for something

00:25:36   to help you sleep there really is something for everybody to try. Calm has a library of

00:25:41   content specifically designed to help work teams stress less, sleep better and build

00:25:45   mental resilience this includes lo-fi music playlists which I love, quick breathing breaks,

00:25:52   guided meditations and hundreds of soothing sleep stories to feel more relaxed and more

00:25:56   prepared for whatever's going to come your way. They even have programs tailored for

00:26:00   mental health and productivity like their Mindfulness at Work series. Millions of employees

00:26:05   at over 600 companies like Lincoln, It's Horrible and Universal Studios use Calm for

00:26:10   business and Calm is available globally. Right now Calm is offering a free well-being ebook

00:26:15   for HR and benefit leaders and one month free after you attend a free demo when you go to

00:26:20   calm.com/upgrade. That's right you get a free well-being ebook and one month free after

00:26:25   you attend that demo when you go to calm.com/upgrade that is c-a-l-m.com/upgrade. Go get started

00:26:33   today our thanks to Calm for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:26:36   Let's talk about gaming. Pro gamers. Great gamers. Pro gamers. Because your favorite

00:26:44   game came back again Altos Odyssey the Lost City is now available in Apple Arcade. Yes.

00:26:52   What is this and how does it differ from Altos Odyssey? So what so what happened is so I

00:27:00   love Altos Odyssey it was the sequel to Altos Adventure it is a sort of sand surfing game.

00:27:07   You could call it an endless runner but boy that I don't feel like that does it justice

00:27:12   it's it's a it's side-scrolling you basically it has a very simple mechanic you're you're

00:27:18   jumping and flipping and picking up coins and grinding off of various kind of vines

00:27:25   and ropes and stuff and the music is beautiful and the graphics are beautiful and it's very

00:27:30   calming it's very soothing there's a zen mode where you there are no points and you just

00:27:35   do it because it's pleasant. I like to play that mode on planes. Oh yeah I love it I it's

00:27:43   one of the rare games that I have completely expended like I got all the levels I did it

00:27:49   all it really was an obsession of mine for a little while and when I got to the end and

00:27:54   I got the last one I did sort of like I think my last challenge was was go for more than

00:28:00   a day in the game not on the real world but in the in the game you know like from sunrise

00:28:05   to sunset and then back around to sunrise and and it was this very long sort of I wasn't

00:28:10   trying to pick up any any points or do any any big moves because it wasn't about accumulating

00:28:18   points it was about just staying alive and being in the game and and it was so pleasant

00:28:24   and that was my last one and I got to level 60 and so then I I was like it was like a

00:28:29   little moment of like I did it I retired and I've revisited it a few times in zen mode but

00:28:33   basically I put it down it was like that was great what a wonderful experience that was

00:28:37   so in the interim it sounds like indie games like that have had a harder and harder time

00:28:43   in the app store and so team alto which is which is two companies at snowman and then

00:28:49   the designer that they work with who I think is in London they approached got approached

00:28:56   by apple to do an apple arcade game and I think it's interesting because this is not

00:29:02   quite the the let's bring an existing game into the store but it is also that so the

00:29:09   lost city is an extension of altos odyssey but my understanding is it's also altos odyssey

00:29:15   so if you've never played altos odyssey you can play the whole game because I got confused

00:29:19   until I read your article because I launched it was like I gotta start again but you can

00:29:25   go into the settings and bring your progress over but it doesn't do that automatically

00:29:28   or like tell you which I found strange yeah I think I wish it said you've played this

00:29:33   game before you know when you first launch it would you like me to bring over your progress

00:29:37   because you have to go to a setting screen and do it I did that and then suddenly on

00:29:40   level 60 and all the all the players are unlocked and all of that and the the extension of the

00:29:45   game is there's a new biome called the lost city so the the game has three biomes that

00:29:50   have different graphics and different music and there's the sort of like the sunny sandy

00:29:53   part and then there's sort of the ruins part and then there's the squishy watery viney

00:29:59   jungly part and in the new mechanic is there are our 10 map fragments on the map and you

00:30:05   get all 10 and it unlocks this fourth biome which is the lost city different music different

00:30:09   graphics wasn't in the original game and then and that's that is nice enough on its own

00:30:15   because it adds a new texture to this already wonderful game and if it's familiar to you

00:30:20   now you've got this little unfamiliar bit but on top of that within the lost city there

00:30:24   are little messages in a bottle basically that you can pick up that are tasks for you

00:30:29   to complete and you can only have one of them armed at a time and they're like the level

00:30:34   based tasks there are you know do a grind over a chasm back to a grind or something

00:30:40   like they're very specific things that you have to do and you have to go for that one

00:30:44   in the in the previous game there'd be like three on each level and you could get any

00:30:48   of them or all of them in one go and and with this mechanic that's laid on top you have

00:30:52   to pick one and try to do that one and some of them are limited to just in the in the

00:30:58   city so you have to wrap all the way back around to the city in order to do it again

00:31:02   but it's just more altos odyssey it's delightful so for people who are who have never played

00:31:06   it before and our Apple Arcade subscribers they can just start at the beginning and experience

00:31:10   it but if you played it before and loved it you can go back to it now and there's a whole

00:31:16   extra set of things to explore and a new set of challenges and so it's a fun opportunity

00:31:21   for somebody like me to revisit it so it's a it's an interesting way for them to split

00:31:25   the difference I did talk to the altos the team alto people before this came out and

00:31:31   you know definitely the message I got was that this is that the game market in the App

00:31:35   Store has really changed and that this Apple Arcade approach is like the only way that

00:31:41   a game like that is going to get an update it's because it's like it's just hard out

00:31:45   there they didn't want to do a you know in-app purchase mechanic kind of thing that's not

00:31:49   what it is and Apple Arcade allowed them to do this and build this new version or you

00:31:55   know basically it's extra levels on top of the original version for people who've played

00:32:00   it they get the extra levels so yeah I love it and it reminded me just how I love it this

00:32:05   is this is literally my favorite iOS game like it reminds me like oh no I the amount

00:32:10   of of love I have for Altos Odyssey it's like it's very clearly my favorite

00:32:15   I was also treated to a new arcade game around similar time a kind of similar game in some

00:32:22   ways Jetpack Joyride Plus this is one of the games that was popular on iOS like years ago

00:32:30   and now it's been brought back to Apple Arcade like I just saw Angry Birds got this treatment

00:32:34   as well Jetpack Joyride is one of my very favorite

00:32:38   all-time iOS games it's made by a company called Halfbrick Studios and they've made

00:32:43   loads of games over the years and this Jetpack Joyride was a spin-off of another game series

00:32:50   that they were making and so yeah it's basically the old game back again and they've added

00:32:55   some features but not a ton and they've got they've refreshed some of the graphics it

00:33:00   works well with the new screens I love this game and I'm so happy that it's on Apple Arcade

00:33:05   I really love what they're doing now I think Apple has nailed it they're bringing in new

00:33:09   stuff and they're signing new games all the time there's a couple of new games coming

00:33:13   up on Apple Arcade that I'm really interested in but they're doing I think a really good

00:33:18   job of reaching out to developers like the two that we've just mentioned and they're

00:33:23   like hey you have a good game what if we just make it a part of Apple Arcade or hey do you

00:33:27   want to make a new version for Apple Arcade like I think that they've kind of landed on

00:33:31   a real good mix now like there's a Tetris game coming soon called Tetris Beat that I'm

00:33:36   really excited about there's a game that's a really weird looking word based puzzle game

00:33:41   called Word Web and Super Stickman Golf 3 Plus is another one coming oh yeah yeah I'm

00:33:48   like I think whoever they've got picking out these old games I feel like me and this person

00:33:55   share a very similar taste in games because they're bringing all these ones that I really

00:34:01   like Jetpack Joyride was a very successful game but I don't know if a lot of people would

00:34:06   really think of it as like oh this is the game you should bring back so I'm really pleased

00:34:09   they did because I love this game and so I really these are two games if you have Apple

00:34:13   Arcade that both well that I will recommend both of them I don't think Jason's played

00:34:17   Jetpack Joyride Plus but they're both really great games that we recommend to you to go

00:34:22   check out.

00:34:23   Alright previews of the Playdate handheld console made by Panic have started to be published

00:34:29   so a few different games websites have been and tech websites have been publishing them

00:34:35   it seems like the Playdate is going to be just as fun as we thought it would be it just

00:34:39   like really weird and quirky and awesome I'm so freaking excited for this thing pre-orders

00:34:44   begin this Thursday I'm going to be trying to get one as soon as I can hopefully maybe

00:34:50   receive it before the end of the year but I just you know I love I'm excited for this

00:34:55   product but it also just warms my heart because like we know the people that make this thing

00:35:01   and everyone's freaking out about it and it's getting really great reviews online like from

00:35:04   all these tech publications and gaming publications like I'm just really pleased for them that

00:35:09   it seems to actually be working you know like you never really know how this stuff's going

00:35:13   to go and I'm just super jazzed about it and I can't I just cannot wait I'm super excited

00:35:19   about this thing looks great.

00:35:21   Yeah I'm looking forward to it it it's fun I mean what I like about it too is it's it's

00:35:26   just aggressively not trying to be what all other game hardware is trying to be it's trying

00:35:34   to be something different they and the fact that not only does it come with a season of

00:35:39   games for the price of it so you get a bunch of games that come once a week but they also

00:35:45   have a developer kit and they've seeded that a long time ago and so you can sideload games

00:35:50   and people are making games for it it's never gonna a lot of the criticism I see on the

00:35:56   internet is from people who just don't get it right they're like well this is never going

00:35:58   to succeed in a world where there's the Nintendo switch or there's the Steam Deck or whatever

00:36:03   and it's like well well no first off their definition of success is very different and

00:36:08   they're not trying to sell a billion of them like that's not that's not the goal here like

00:36:13   it's meant to be really different and that's the whole premise is it's not like what you

00:36:19   would make if you were a big game company right it's it's not it is if you want to call

00:36:26   it like a hipster handheld game console sure do that but like it's it's trying to appeal

00:36:31   to a very different kind of ethos and yeah it looks great I look forward to it I hope

00:36:34   the games are great the yeah I'll pre-order one although although panic what about your

00:36:42   palace of upgrade I look at look I'm preview little upgrade played I just want to put this

00:36:48   out there like that Jason said it first come on like we're important influences oh yes

00:36:54   you know don't forget we just established our gaming cred game was to go rise up you

00:36:59   know this is what we do around here all the time yeah we are gamers so yeah where's where's

00:37:04   the exclusive upgrade I'll buy I'm gonna buy one yeah I'm gonna buy it but also like if

00:37:09   you want to like just slip it a little early to us over here at the upgrade program it's

00:37:14   like whoops I draw I was over visiting upgrade and I dropped one oh I don't know where to

00:37:18   go wouldn't mind if you're out there yeah looking forward to it according Oh Netflix

00:37:24   Netflix again into gaming and Netflix is rise up who is more of a gamer than Netflix has

00:37:31   announced that they are planning to add mobile games to the service at a time when growth

00:37:36   is stalling for Netflix actually along with subscriber decreases in some markets this

00:37:42   is a COVID related thing but nevertheless this is not something that they want the expectation

00:37:46   is that these games will live inside of the current Netflix app based on IP that Netflix

00:37:52   owns and Netflix to have some experience of this so not only do they adapt games to TV

00:38:01   shows they have actually been producers of some video games based on stuff like Stranger

00:38:06   Things there are no ads no in-app purchases for the games that Netflix are looking to

00:38:11   make my big thing that I want to talk about here is Apple aren't gonna like this are they

00:38:18   no not unless they they on Apple's platforms they put them out as apps or you just have

00:38:24   to be logged into Netflix in order to play them there's no way that's what they want

00:38:28   to do I am sure that's not what they want to do unless they're unless they're trying

00:38:33   to navigate kind of the roblox kind of thing which is that like it's all comes with a subscription

00:38:39   and it's using this basic framework within the app I don't know how this is gonna go

00:38:42   yes and I'll tell you right now that roblox thing that only that is like might as well

00:38:46   just because this is the roblox exemption right well and and so really that's not a

00:38:51   strategy for Netflix it's only an excuse if Netflix has also gone to Apple and kind of

00:38:56   cut a deal with them which I doubt probably the reason robots get around it is they do

00:39:02   use the in-app purchase program so they use Apple's in-app purchase right now right which

00:39:07   Netflix doesn't do right and that's gonna be the issue if Netflix still had the Apple

00:39:12   in-app purchase this wouldn't be an issue right they would let it through and it wouldn't

00:39:17   be maybe not maybe not right because you could say these are features of the app our app

00:39:21   also is a game now I'm skeptical that Apple is gonna allow something like this but can

00:39:27   I just also back up and say I'm also skeptical of this as a strategy yeah I read a fun funny

00:39:34   article about this that basically said Netflix has decided that Quibi was right after all

00:39:40   not in the way that Quibi thought but like in a way that like Netflix is is actually

00:39:44   threatened by people out on their phones who want a small amount of time to spend with

00:39:50   entertainment and they're not spending it with Netflix because it's more of a long-form

00:39:53   experience and the article was kind of like ah Netflix is very savvy and they're they're

00:40:00   doing this thing that Quibi you know obviously failed on but now Netflix has got a lot of

00:40:05   cred so so watch out and I read this and say Netflix is being Quibi here like in all the

00:40:13   ways that Quibi signifies because this strikes me as being a company that is good at a thing

00:40:19   feels threatened by a different thing that it's not good at and has just decided it's

00:40:23   going to spend money to do that thing now you could you could like Apple are Apple TV

00:40:28   Plus you could argue is like that but Apple Apple is different in that they are they are

00:40:34   playing in so many different ways and they're a platform owner and they have hardware and

00:40:37   all that but like Netflix I'm not saying Netflix couldn't do this I'm just saying I don't think

00:40:44   this comes across as being something that is that makes sense for Netflix as a brand

00:40:49   and it's much more like Netflix just wants to throw a bunch of stuff in its app to keep

00:40:54   people from going to other apps because it's deluded into thinking that that's what it's

00:40:58   going to do and I just I think it's delusional because people who are wanting a mobile experience

00:41:04   and want to play a game or something like that then they're not gonna oh I want to play

00:41:08   this game that comes with my Netflix subscription I just I'm really skeptical that this is something

00:41:12   that's going to actually work to solve the problem that Netflix wants to solve maybe

00:41:17   I'm wrong you know it always could it could be that they figured it out and they're going

00:41:20   to do it this way and it's going to be great but I look at and I think you know the Netflix

00:41:25   is is trying to be something it's not because it is true Netflix is competing with everything

00:41:32   else on your phone that's absolutely true I'm just not convinced that Netflix can come

00:41:38   up with its own solution to this that solves that problem I think you know Netflix might

00:41:45   be better off creating a new product that is a game streaming service or a mini game

00:41:51   app that Netflix customers get for free but is something else and marketed as something

00:41:57   else rather than just have it be like did you know you can play you seem to be on your

00:42:02   phone did you know you could play a game on your phone in the Netflix app I don't know

00:42:05   it's it's yeah I'm not I'm open to the possibility it'll work but it this feels like overreach

00:42:10   from a company that has found a weakness that is fundamental to their business model and

00:42:17   have decided to rub some money on it in hopes that the weakness will go away and that's

00:42:21   not how it works I here's my problem with this feels desperate I don't think that this

00:42:26   news has come out the way that either they want or it should have I feel like there was

00:42:33   well there was a leak it came out through like some rumor reporting I don't think they

00:42:39   should have announced it at the same time that they announced their subscriber decline

00:42:44   because it makes it seem like the strategy exists purely because they need to make money

00:42:49   in other places or keep people around it feels desperate to me and and unnecessary I think

00:42:57   I think maybe the thing that troubles me the most about it is that if it there's a whiff

00:43:02   of desperation for sure but also it feels like Netflix not being comfortable with what

00:43:11   it is Netflix is huge it's dominant it might not end up as number one but like it's a brand

00:43:19   new relatively speaking company that I think at worst is going to be number two or three

00:43:26   among all entertainment companies worldwide right it's pretty good because the others

00:43:31   are going to be Disney and maybe Amazon right which is a behemoth of another kind right

00:43:38   like Netflix and right now Netflix is number one bigger than all legacy entertainment companies

00:43:44   they have also built up an audience of new generations of audience who don't think of

00:43:52   TV as anything but Netflix all its competition is just trying to be Netflix like Netflix

00:43:58   is number one not just in size but in terms of like the mind share in the in the audience

00:44:05   and in the industry like it's dominant and so maybe there's an aspect of this that is

00:44:09   there are no more worlds to conquer and so it's going to try to find some new world to

00:44:13   conquer but I feel like it goes against what they should be concerned about maintaining

00:44:20   their dominance rather than than doing something like this a dalliance over here in the game

00:44:26   side because like the fact is like get over it no people are probably not going to be

00:44:31   watching opening the Netflix app when they're standing in line at the at the supermarket

00:44:35   that's okay my daughter is 19 she is born and raised on Netflix essentially she loves

00:44:42   Netflix she also loves other streaming services and like she is on her phone all the time

00:44:48   and she's not watching TV shows on her phone right like she doesn't do that it's okay she's

00:44:54   a loyal Netflix customer it's baked in it's going to be there for the rest of her life

00:44:58   like they got her and I really believe that Netflix is like that I think Netflix has done

00:45:04   this amazing thing and they are who they are and to obsess about like well but no we haven't

00:45:11   covered every other portion of your audience not only is it weird and creepy and kind of

00:45:15   Facebook II but I think it's just a mistake like Netflix again maybe you should invest

00:45:23   in a company that is going to be the thing that monopolizes people's brains when they're

00:45:29   in line at the grocery store or waiting for their doctor or whatever like okay but like

00:45:34   is that a fit with a Netflix brand I don't think it is I really don't think it is I'm

00:45:39   not sure what they're gonna do with this it really is very very peculiar to me I'll I'll

00:45:45   predict something which is that they're gonna half-heartedly do this for a little while

00:45:48   and realize that it isn't anything and then it'll be sunset and that'll be the end of

00:45:52   that.

00:45:54   According to a report from Felipe Esposito at 9to5Mac Apple is currently working on a

00:45:58   new display that will include its own A13 system on a chip inside with its own neural

00:46:04   engine it is believed that because of this feature the display could actually be a high-end

00:46:10   model possibly to replace the XDR and it's expected this chip could help deliver higher

00:46:15   resolution graphics or add in features like AirPlay so they got that piece of information

00:46:21   and I think there's some conclusions for it I don't know if I necessarily go along the

00:46:26   same route so if I was given this piece of information which is that Apple is currently

00:46:31   working on a new display that will include its own A13 system on a chip with its own

00:46:34   neural engine I don't think that this means it's going to replace the XDR no I think that

00:46:40   this is just Apple's monitor and I expect it isn't anything to do with graphics or AirPlay

00:46:47   it's so they can put face ID in the thing secure enclave yeah I've come up with a list

00:46:51   of things that none of which means that it has to be the high-end pro display XDR replace

00:46:58   if you were going to put a chip in like if you're gonna put a chip inside it means it's

00:47:02   expensive the A13 is not that chip right that's an old chip for Apple now which I'm sure they

00:47:08   can make very cheaply and it's their own chip and all that so so here are the reasons AirPlay

00:47:13   is a good one I like that idea imagine the idea that your monitor actually has Wi-Fi

00:47:18   and can do AirPlay like built-in and it's an AirPlay display too like that's cool that's

00:47:23   that's sure I wouldn't put that at the top of my list but that's a cool idea I think

00:47:28   you make a really good point which is if you've got something like that you could use secure

00:47:32   enclave you could do face ID you could do more intelligent processing of that kind of

00:47:38   data to pass on to whatever device is connected to it the first one that popped to my mind

00:47:45   is all about camera hardware in it the idea that you have the onboard ISP image signal

00:47:52   processor that is that is Apple does talks about this all the time now like the new iMac

00:47:58   has the best webcam ever on the Mac and it's not just because of the hardware but it's

00:48:01   because of the processor that is doing lots of smart things to that so I throw that and

00:48:06   center stage something like that in there the idea that it's basically a smart monitor

00:48:10   that includes this really smart camera that will do all that stuff automatically right

00:48:15   so you've got a really good webcam that does center stage that maybe does face ID that's

00:48:21   immediately where my where my thought went is that the primarily the reason that you

00:48:24   would put an a13 and a monitor is for the camera actually given what Apple's existing

00:48:29   camera tech is I actually wonder if you put Wi-Fi and and and a camera in there I wonder

00:48:35   if you could do FaceTime without actually connecting a device to it be interesting right

00:48:41   it's also just a FaceTime receiver but whatever I like I don't I don't think we necessarily

00:48:47   need need to leap to the idea that this replaces the pro display XDR it made it may just be

00:48:51   that this is the tech that's in their new you know I don't want to consumer display

00:48:55   but their new more affordable display for everyone else yeah I mean like look they could

00:49:00   have been told additional information could be but it's it really seems to me that it

00:49:07   would make sense that to me that Apple would put a chip like this in any display that they

00:49:10   made if they were making a display like why would you not you know if they put their chips

00:49:15   inside of everything now like this is this is what they do like you know it's also it's

00:49:21   also possible that what Apple is planning for its displays is to do two monitors a replacement

00:49:25   for the pro display XDR and a smaller cheaper monitor that are both doing the same thing

00:49:32   if you consider like the micro LED stuff it's not unreasonable that Apple would replace

00:49:37   the pro display XDR with a large monitor that that is using micro LED instead and that might

00:49:44   allow them to get the price down or even keep the price the same but have it be higher quality

00:49:48   because it's got more more zones than the pro display XDR like it's not unreasonable

00:49:54   to think that what they might do is release two displays so that's possible and it is

00:49:59   true 9to5 Mac may have information here that we that that what looks like a leap and an

00:50:04   assumption is actually based on on fact but I a 13 inside doesn't seem like a disqualifier

00:50:10   for me Apple's gonna put if Apple can put its own chip in something in order to make

00:50:14   it be a more amazing product that only Apple can do of course Apple would do that I do

00:50:19   like this idea I mean I don't know how thread works exactly but like you know this idea

00:50:24   of you would put Wi-Fi in each but thread chip and it connects to everything else in

00:50:27   the house and now you can just walk up to this monitor and have a FaceTime call home

00:50:30   strategy yeah be pretty cool that's an Apple TV that's the Apple television oh the team

00:50:37   monster on the phone this episode is brought to you by our friends over at Bombas I adore

00:50:46   my bomber socks because look lots of things can make you work out really hard extra resistance

00:50:52   doubling speed doing that one more mile but your socks shouldn't that's why Bombas is

00:50:57   performance socks are built to be nothing but comfortable and supportive Bombas performance

00:51:02   socks have taken all of the amazing innovations that make Bombas the most comfortable socks

00:51:06   you've ever worn and they've added in their special hextech performance technology I know

00:51:11   what you're thinking what am I socks need to do when I'm working out well if they're

00:51:15   stitched with special moisture wicking yarn and temperature regulating vents it's gonna

00:51:19   mean that it's gonna allow cool airflow in and stop your feet from overheating they come

00:51:24   with a pillow like tab to save you from blisters stay up technology to stop super annoying

00:51:28   socks lippage a special arch hugging system an extra layer of cushiony comfort on the

00:51:33   bottom for that perfect amount of support this is pretty much the dream workout sock

00:51:37   and I will attest to this so you probably don't want to hear about how sweaty I get

00:51:41   when I work out but I'm gonna tell you anyway I get really sweaty when I work out especially

00:51:45   because it's been super hot here recently and the only thing in my overall workout gear

00:51:52   that actually isn't very wet at the time I finish my workout is my Bombas socks they

00:51:57   are super comfortable but they also keep me comfortable in that way too not only do they

00:52:02   feel good afterwards I don't feel super gross on my feet because my Bombas are amazing they

00:52:07   come in different styles for every sport with specific design features to help you optimize

00:52:11   performance and keep you comfortable no matter what don't forget like all of their socks

00:52:16   for every pair of Bombas performance socks that you buy they donate a pair to someone

00:52:20   in need and they've donated over 45 million pairs so far so you can feel good working

00:52:26   out and feel good knowing that you're supporting someone in need go to bombas.com/upgrade today

00:52:33   and get 20% off your first order that's B O M B A S dot com slash upgrade for 20% off

00:52:40   one last time bombas.com/upgrade our thanks to Bombas for their support of this show and

00:52:46   all of Relay FM let's do some hashtag ask upgrade questions

00:52:50   Dan asks do either of you use the back tap feature in accessibility and if so what actions

00:52:57   are triggered I will remind you in case you've forgotten about this I think this is an iOS

00:53:01   13 feature I believe where you can double tap just with your finger on the back of your

00:53:06   phone and it can launch an action and people are really excited about this initially and

00:53:11   we're having to do all kinds of wild things do you use this I don't no neither do I remember

00:53:17   remember that I don't use my phone that much right now that I'm traveling I'm using it

00:53:21   a little bit more but I don't use it if there's not at all my most frequently used device

00:53:27   it's my least frequently used device so I I know it's there and I keep thinking about

00:53:33   cool things that I want to do but I'm also honestly a little bit concerned because I

00:53:38   want it to be something that I'm not going to regret it if I trigger it accidentally

00:53:43   that's the thing and this is my thing I turned it on and I had a shortcut set to it I think

00:53:47   it was like set a timer or whatever and every time every now and then I just look at my

00:53:52   phone and it had been enabled so I'm sure this is a great thing and I'm sure it does

00:53:56   what it's supposed to do which is help people for accessibility right but for me it's just

00:54:01   kind of like something that I want it wasn't really what do you do you look at it and go

00:54:05   well at least I know how long ago I I tapped the back of the phone hooray what was I doing

00:54:11   four minutes and 23 seconds ago huh turns out just tapping the phone tap mark asks considering

00:54:18   the recent news reports about the Pegasus spyware what are the odds that Apple may consider

00:54:22   making the iPhone one big secure enclave I'm sorry this is this is this is the question

00:54:29   it's like if the black box survives the plane crash why don't you make the entire plane

00:54:33   out of the material beautiful is in the black box which is like it doesn't work like that

00:54:37   but I did just want to touch on this like you know you're gonna find better reporting

00:54:41   on this in other places I don't really want to go into it in depth because it's just too

00:54:44   much for this episode and plus it's kind of not really the stuff that I like to focus

00:54:49   on unless I feel like I kind of have to with the show right because it's just like so big

00:54:53   but this is those reports about there being journalists and many people around the world

00:55:00   that are being monitored by this software like they can basically take over your phone

00:55:07   and this company's apparently legit and it's for law enforcement and blah blah blah you

00:55:13   surely you've heard about it now if you haven't just Google Pegasus and you find it but what

00:55:18   I wanted to mention was just this one thing where people say like you know like what what

00:55:23   how does this happen like Apple say that they're so secure why can't they lock it down I my

00:55:28   kind of view on this stuff is I don't think there's anything any company could ever do

00:55:32   just to completely stop these types of exploits my thing is if people make the code people

00:55:39   can break the code like it might be an oversimplified way of looking at this I think the the challenge

00:55:46   with all these sophisticated systems is that you have people whose entire livelihood is

00:55:51   finding flaws yeah and Apple and you know and all OS developers have teams of people

00:56:01   who are trying to also find flaws and fix them the problem is that the universe of possible

00:56:06   flaws is so large that you end up with people finding flaws externally that don't exist

00:56:12   internally and you know Apple could do even more than it's done it's it's a lot better

00:56:16   than it used to be at basically offering bounties for bugs and the idea there is if if shady

00:56:23   people are gonna pay you to use this as an exploit well we'll pay you and you can feel

00:56:28   better about yourself and they want to kind of create a culture in in security research

00:56:33   where if you find a security flaw you can make your living finding security flaws without

00:56:38   handing it over to bad people you just go back to the the vendor unfortunately state

00:56:44   actors and you know other other nefarious groups will pay a lot of money you know the

00:56:52   oppressive government will pay a lot of money to a security firm to hack the journalist

00:56:58   that's writing about them or the person who is trying to escape from under the control

00:57:04   of the oppressive government and and so there will always be a market for this kind of thing

00:57:11   also it is a it is a war it's an arms race yep and so you know the the Pegasus is all

00:57:18   about iMessage and and text messages which is one of the challenges I was actually brought

00:57:23   back to Steve Jobs when he introduced the iPhone and talking about like we don't want

00:57:29   apps on the iPhone because we don't want them to take down the AT&T's network right but

00:57:35   like there's something about that that like iPhones don't exist in isolation they exist

00:57:40   as part of other systems and some of these exploits are all about the other systems it's

00:57:44   about a text message that comes in or or an iMessage but some of them it's a text message

00:57:49   so it's data that's being handed off by the carrier to the phone and then it's doing something

00:57:54   now this was like what five years ago my understanding is that Apple has big surprise spent some

00:58:01   portion of the last five years trying very hard to wall off iMessage and messages because

00:58:11   of this right so my guess is that surreptitious messages are probably a lot less of a vector

00:58:19   for this stuff than they were five years ago in fact I don't know if they closed the door

00:58:22   or if it's just a little bit less or if it's still a problem but like this is the kind

00:58:26   of thing where it's like this war is has been fought I think it may still be being fought

00:58:31   the problem is you're always firing you're always fighting the last war and they're like

00:58:36   the the state actors have moved on to some other vulnerability that the phone makers

00:58:43   don't yet know about and then when they find that one they will have moved on to another

00:58:47   one and that's just sort of the game because that's like one of the interesting things

00:58:50   is iOS 14 has a technology that Apple developed for iMessage called blast door which is supposed

00:58:56   to do this it's like sandbox within a sandbox ultimately and it still works that's just

00:59:01   cat and mouse right yeah like oh we fix this thing we know about it and like well haha we

00:59:06   got another one you know yeah yeah I mean you can do things where you you put it in

00:59:10   this place and it's all it's all analyzed separately in it and you could you can like

00:59:15   render out the text as an image and then hand it I mean there's all these things you could

00:59:19   do but the thing is there's always another exploit and I'll tell you if you if you read

00:59:25   a lot about about hacking and malware and and ransomware and all those things this is

00:59:32   a huge problem for our our planet is we have a lot of insecure systems and it's very hard

00:59:39   to take these complex systems and make them secure and this is just going to continue

00:59:42   to be a problem so I would say if you if you have anything that requires you to have a

00:59:52   hundred percent confidence in your device and your devices on a network like don't have

00:59:59   that thing on that device I mean I hate to say it but like and the truth is for most

01:00:03   people it's not the case most people are not a target and most people are not are do not

01:00:10   have things of this level right those things are generally both true however if I was a

01:00:17   journalist being focused on by a government for my work I would have to make a lot of

01:00:26   assumptions about my security and keep a lot of data offline and switch devices all the

01:00:35   time and have multiple devices and do all it would be very difficult but that's what

01:00:41   you would have to do that that's literally what you would have to do.

01:00:44   We just started rewatching the Sopranos and you basically you have to go find pay pay

01:00:49   funds you get to do the outside line type of thing you know so you live your life at

01:00:53   that point you know gonna go find an outside line.

01:00:56   Yeah yeah so so that's the truth of it is that if you want to go live in a cave all

01:01:04   your data will be secure but nobody wants to live in a cave and so here we are so most

01:01:11   most you know I don't believe that there is malpractice going on in terms of the operating

01:01:17   system developers I think they do legitimately see this as a huge threat to their business

01:01:21   and they want to fix this stuff I'd say Apple has seemingly been slower at this than maybe

01:01:26   they should have been but that they do seem much more on it than they used to be and engaging

01:01:31   with the security community but this is going to still continue to be a problem because

01:01:36   there is this imbalance of need like if Apple would always pay better for this information

01:01:47   than others it would be less of an issue but even then you would still have state-sponsored

01:01:53   organizations that would pay people to find exploits like that would still happen so it's

01:02:01   a it's the good news is that when this stuff comes out it gets passed to those OS vendors

01:02:07   and they and they try to make a fix but like it is just a constant battle and and yeah

01:02:12   if I were in an authoritarian regime and trying to escape and knew that they were they were

01:02:17   following me and analyzing me I would my behavior on my devices would be very different true

01:02:24   absolutely true.

01:02:25   Hack asks the MagSafe battery pack.

01:02:28   Oh no did we just get hacked by a text?

01:02:30   Here's a hack the MagSafe battery pack certainly isn't the best solution for everyone but it

01:02:35   does seem to make sense to me as a replacement for a MagSafe charger you could leave it plugged

01:02:40   in most of the time but take it with you if you know you'll need more juice on a particular

01:02:44   day it has the same charging speed as a normal MagSafe puck when plugged in does that framing

01:02:49   change your opinion of the product there is absolutely no way that I would want to leave

01:02:54   a battery plugged in all the time I wouldn't do that.

01:02:59   Yeah I it doesn't change my I mean no not really like I'd really rather just have a

01:03:04   regular MagSafe puck and I don't think that I mean if if it is true that it charges at

01:03:10   the exact same rate as MagSafe and passes it through.

01:03:13   If you use the right charger you see use one of the 20 Walgreens.

01:03:16   Yes well that's okay although it's it's still a little less clean because you've got to

01:03:20   detach it every time and to your point I know that there would be it would be kind of uneasy

01:03:25   I'm sure it's got firmware in it to not charge you know when it's full and stuff like that

01:03:30   but I don't know it seems it seems really weird to me but but yeah I guess if you need

01:03:35   a justification for buying one this is an extra justification I'm not I'm still not interested

01:03:39   in this product.

01:03:40   I also just want to say on a separate note this is something we didn't know last week

01:03:44   but I wish I would have known because this is like another reason that I think this product

01:03:48   is weird you can't charge it with a MagSafe puck you have to charge it with a cable so

01:03:54   like if you've gone all in on MagSafe which you would expect most people that buy this

01:03:59   battery are pretty much all in on MagSafe you now need to bring a lightning cable back into

01:04:04   your system to charge the battery I think that is wild to me.

01:04:10   That is so wild because I feel so it's like poor Jeremy Burge friend of the show creator

01:04:14   of emoji who just celebrated his birthday which is the national it's national and worldwide

01:04:23   emoji day which is when everybody celebrates the birthday of the creator of Jeremy Burge

01:04:28   yep and he lives on a boat and that's actually true this is completely true and have like

01:04:36   a mood to MagSafe because it's just really great for him but now has to bring like another

01:04:41   cable back in you know he lives on a boat in limited space for all this stuff and now

01:04:45   he needs a lightning cable again I find I find I don't know it's weird this is just

01:04:49   like a weird set of decisions I think this product but you go for it if it's for you

01:04:56   if it fits your life then that's great it does not fit mine and Stuart asks given their

01:05:01   content model do you think that YouTube premium is overpriced where I live it's twice the

01:05:06   cost of Disney Plus and almost twice the cost of the basic Netflix subscription go for Myke

01:05:12   I don't think so because I feel like I'm paying creators as well as YouTube right so I know

01:05:18   the YouTube's taking some money but I'm paying a lot of creators for me personally I watch

01:05:23   more YouTube than anything else it is easily like in time for me more than multiple of

01:05:28   any specific service that I use like I would say I watch as much YouTube as Netflix and

01:05:34   Disney Plus combined and it's going to so many different people like for me I consider

01:05:40   like oh in YouTube I have these different sets of creators that are almost like their

01:05:46   own services right like I have these are my tech youtubers that I watch and these are

01:05:50   my educational youtubers that I watch and these are my kind of more entertainment youtubers

01:05:55   that I watch and I would pay five dollars a month for each of those buckets so it doesn't

01:06:01   bother me that it's all in one thing so yeah if if YouTube premium remove the ads and only

01:06:08   YouTube got the money I would consider it overpriced but because creators get the money

01:06:12   too totally works for me and I don't use enough YouTube for it to make sense to me right I

01:06:18   think that I think that your point that you watch YouTube the most is a key point here

01:06:22   which is this is actually a pretty great service if you are watching a lot of YouTube because

01:06:27   that means that you are watching a lot of content created by YouTube creators and so

01:06:32   they are getting that money and it means you're sitting through a bunch of annoying ads that

01:06:35   you can make disappear and so that's really nice too and if you're watching it more than

01:06:41   Disney Plus it should cost more than Disney Plus and and and the truth is I think I think

01:06:48   if you're that's that's a good measurement right it's like I only watch a handful of

01:06:53   YouTube videos a week so it doesn't make sense to me I just tap skip on the ads and it's

01:06:58   fine but but if I used it all the time I would absolutely prioritize it over some of the

01:07:04   other services for sure makes sense to me but like in the end what I like about YouTube

01:07:09   premium is that most of YouTube premium is not like walling content right it's just giving

01:07:15   money to creators and and cutting out the ads I watch yeah I watch literally zero of

01:07:21   the premium content that they create see yeah yeah so I think it's the wrong way and they've

01:07:25   gone away from the idea of doing originals in the same way that they did when they did

01:07:29   like Cobra Kai and stuff like that they're not doing that sort of thing anyway so it's

01:07:32   a very different beast as well also like to back up a second it really is about who you

01:07:38   want to support and what you value personally and you know we do upgrade plus here and you

01:07:47   can support that I have six colors memberships and people can support us that way and you

01:07:54   know I occasionally have gotten not so much lately but like when I first launched it I

01:07:58   got messages from people who are like why are you charging me why do you want to charge

01:08:04   me $60 a year for six colors I could I could have bought five magazines for a year for

01:08:09   that or something like that it's like okay well this isn't a magazine and you know it

01:08:14   was more akin to saying I why why PBS station why are you selling me a tote bag for $100

01:08:22   I can get a tote bag for $10 and the answer is you're not buying for the tote bag you're

01:08:26   buying to support the thing that you want so that they can survive and make more stuff

01:08:31   and you know it's not quite the same with Disney but with YouTube Premium it kind of

01:08:35   is but I I like to approach all of this stuff this way which is is this something that has

01:08:40   something I want and is it something that I want to exist in the world I will pay them

01:08:44   money and I feel good about paying money for things that I value and that is not the same

01:08:51   kind of calculation and it goes for your favorite podcasts or or or patreons or anything that

01:08:57   you're doing it you know what what are the things that provide value to you the value

01:09:02   is not necessarily just it's not dollars dollars yeah and it's not embedded in like the shows

01:09:08   like if you don't watch as many things on YouTube as you do on Disney Plus it shouldn't

01:09:11   cost you shouldn't pay for it like it doesn't make sense then but but it it you wrap a whole

01:09:17   bunch of different kinds of value in and every every service is kind of different in that

01:09:21   way

01:09:22   yeah and it's like I get it like people have used the Netflix thing for for us a bunch

01:09:28   of times like oh it cost me as much as Netflix to get upgrade plus it's like okay that's

01:09:35   fine then like you know you know you don't have to subscribe but going back to what you

01:09:39   were mentioning before like that's kind of I think that we do things very specifically

01:09:43   with this show and some of our other shows too at least this is how I do the shows that

01:09:48   that I'm on because every creator on real AFM gets to make their own decisions about

01:09:51   if they want to do a membership program and how they would run it for their show I believe

01:09:58   it to be all of it so you can give us the money if you want to support us you can give

01:10:03   us the money if you want to remove ads you can give us the money if you want the extra

01:10:07   content or any combination of the three but for me I think that's the right mix I think

01:10:13   it should be all three that's what I want for my shows you get more you get no ads and

01:10:18   you also get that feeling of supporting some of your favorite creators if that's your back

01:10:21   you know so as well as all the other benefits discord and that kind of stuff get go to get

01:10:27   upgrade plus.com and you can support the show but yeah it is a mixture and you know I was

01:10:33   just listening to I mean I pay for shiitakere and I was just listening to shiitakere daily

01:10:38   update today and Ben was mentioning about you know it's subscriptions for everything

01:10:44   now and it isn't like share of wallet anymore like it used to be you're now like sharing

01:10:50   in the overall amount of subscriptions that someone's willing to pay for everything subscription

01:10:55   now like that's just the world that we live in software services entertainment and you

01:11:01   feel like you've got to get the value out of it that's the ultimate yeah and if you

01:11:06   do great and if you don't that's fine that's your decision.

01:11:10   If you'd like to send in a question for us to answer on the show just send a tweet with

01:11:13   the hashtag ask upgrade or you can use question mark ask upgrade in the relay FM members discord

01:11:18   thank you to everybody that does.

01:11:21   This episode is brought to you by Fitbod.

01:11:23   Fitbod is the fitness app that provides a personalized exercise plan a fitness plan

01:11:27   that actually fits you because when it comes to fitness Fitbod believes that everybody

01:11:31   can be better whether you're working out three days a week twice a day doesn't matter because

01:11:35   Fitbod's algorithm uses data and analytics to help you build on your previous workout

01:11:40   so that it's going to be scientifically proven to be better than your last one.

01:11:45   Fitbod has been fine-tuned by certified personal trainers to bring the best practices of strength

01:11:50   training to you what this means is that your workout program will be tailored to your needs

01:11:55   it's going to suit your body experience environment and goals this stuff is unique to you and

01:11:59   Fitbod helps you focus on that because it can be hard to know exactly how much exercise

01:12:04   you should be doing when you're training so Fitbod will take care of that for you figure

01:12:08   everything else you don't have to worry about under or over training it's going to mix up

01:12:13   muscle groups and exercises sets reps and weight over time to keep you on top form while

01:12:18   making sure that you're on the path that's right for you to help you take the steps that

01:12:21   you want towards becoming a better version of yourself.

01:12:24   If you're working out at home right now Fitbod has a bunch of body weight only workouts these

01:12:28   are great for indoors or outdoors if you have access to gym equipment they have tons of

01:12:32   options there no matter what it is you want to be doing they've got that stuff for you

01:12:36   I absolutely love Fitbod I love the videos the videos are so important for me whenever

01:12:41   I'm especially tackling something new with exercise I really want to know that I feel

01:12:45   comfortable doing it and I can read about it and that's fine but sometimes I need to

01:12:48   actually see somebody do it and getting the little videos for every exercise maybe I need

01:12:53   a reminder every now and then maybe it's something that's come up and I haven't done it in a

01:12:57   while I can just open the app take a look and it shows me this is how the exercise is

01:13:01   done I think that's so valuable.

01:13:03   Fitbod is available on iOS and Android and you can get started right now by going to

01:13:07   fitbod.me/upgrade and you'll also get 25% off your membership that's fitbod.me/upgrade

01:13:14   to try out Fitbod for free and get 25% off your Fitbod membership thanks to Fitbod for

01:13:20   their support of this show and Relay FM.

01:13:23   Loki let's talk about Loki so spoilers for Loki if you haven't seen it you should see

01:13:31   it especially if you have Disney+ but we're gonna talk about it and we're gonna talk probably

01:13:36   about the whole season have you watched the behind the scenes episode?

01:13:39   I haven't.

01:13:40   Oh it's really good it's the best one of those so far I would just note on it's not really

01:13:45   spoilers for it it's very funny.

01:13:46   And we should say if you if you have watched Ted Lasso but haven't watched Loki you should

01:13:50   skip to the next chapter where we talk about Ted Lasso.

01:13:52   Yeah we're gonna talk about Ted Lasso after Loki so that's what the chapters are there

01:13:56   for so you can jump in.

01:13:57   Lasso after Loki that's what they always say.

01:13:59   You gotta have one.

01:14:00   alphabetically not true but okay.

01:14:03   I mean it is if you go by no because his name is what is his name Loki Farfasen I can't

01:14:08   remember.

01:14:09   Farfasen?

01:14:10   Maybe it is by surname who knows.

01:14:13   The behind the scenes is good like it feels like the most complete one of those so far

01:14:18   and it feels like it has more of a story that they're telling with it feels like maybe they've

01:14:22   kind of landed on what those behind the scenes things should be.

01:14:26   That's really good I recommend that.

01:14:30   This is easily the best of the three.

01:14:33   I think they knew that right.

01:14:35   I found it especially interesting that they have used Loki as the jumping off point for

01:14:43   the next phase of all of Marvel like the movies and the TV shows right like the multiverse

01:14:51   and Kang and all that kind of stuff is all here and I found that really interesting like

01:14:58   we have the next Thanos kind of character here and it's all in the Loki TV show and

01:15:03   I found that really interesting.

01:15:04   I thought it was really kind of like and they taught again so you know you see I touch on

01:15:11   this in the behind the scenes saying it seems like such a mark of how they think of Tom

01:15:17   Hiddleston you know that they were willing to give him and his character like the beginning

01:15:22   of all of this next part you know it's like a sign of I can't think of the right term

01:15:29   but like really like a sign of maybe respect for the work that he's done he's been in it

01:15:34   for so long he's been in this you know right one of the OG yeah so but overall the show

01:15:41   is so beautiful and you can tell they put the money into it it this one really felt

01:15:48   like just a you know four or five hour movie more than the others as well I thought it

01:15:54   was fantastic it was really well done.

01:15:56   Yeah I agree this was my favorite Marvel series of these and I liked WandaVision a lot but

01:16:06   like I think this this one hit it out of the park I love the cast I love the tone of it

01:16:13   I love the music which is fantastic I just like the look it looks so good and it looks

01:16:21   good in the in the interiors where they're in this organization that's got this very

01:16:27   kind of old tech retro tech kind of thing there yeah they're an omnipotent time-traveling

01:16:33   organization with all this old tech so beautifully done and then they go there's an episode where

01:16:37   they're outside on a planet and like the purple planet and it is gorgeous I just I love I

01:16:44   love everything about it now I will also say as somebody who is a has been a Doctor Who

01:16:49   fan for a very long time this show kind of feels like Doctor Who on a on a budget a little

01:16:55   bit and I mean that in the best way possible like I just I loved it so Tom Hilsen is great

01:17:03   the other actors are great Owen Wilson doing his thing.

01:17:08   I love Owen Wilson in this show I'm a fan of Owen Wilson anyway I like him and I think

01:17:14   he does a great job in this.

01:17:16   They picked the right they picked the right use for him the right way he does it and then

01:17:24   Sofia DeMartino who is Sylvie is fantastic too really kind of a revelation in that part

01:17:36   and you know Loki I love that the idea here is how do you do a show about a villain and

01:17:41   they could have made it like an antihero show you know The Sopranos that kind of thing and

01:17:48   that's not what they do instead they try to understand why he does what he does and also

01:17:52   have him kind of learn and the way they do it with kind of exploring alternate versions

01:18:00   of Loki and other paths he could take and like having that be part of his sort of path

01:18:08   of realization about himself I just think is just incredibly incredibly well done and

01:18:15   Loki learns and grows but in a very kind of interesting conflicted Loki kind of way.

01:18:24   It's very complicated to get your head around the start of this show right?

01:18:27   It is.

01:18:28   The time.

01:18:29   And the fact that one of the plot points here is basically they end up going to a lot of

01:18:33   apocalypses it lets the show be so atmospheric because like everywhere they go like even

01:18:40   when they go to they go to a superstore they go to a big box store in one episode and you're

01:18:44   thinking well how could there be a more boring place than a big box store but it's the big

01:18:49   box store at the end of the world.

01:18:52   It's hours away from being destroyed by a mega hurricane or mega tornado or something

01:18:57   and everybody there is on edge because the weather is increasingly bad outside and it's

01:19:02   super claustrophobic and like that everywhere you go in this show you get that kind of thing

01:19:09   whether it's a fantastical apocalypse or there's literally sort of a post at the end of time

01:19:14   there is also this kind of mega apocalypse that they visit.

01:19:19   Like I don't know it if I have a criticism it's that they have a bunch of members of

01:19:24   the cast who don't get used as much as I would like for them to be used.

01:19:28   So when we Masaku as Hunter B-15 a Gugu Muhabatha Ra who was in Doctor Who actually as Ravana

01:19:35   Renslayer she's the morning show.

01:19:38   And she is in the morning show season one.

01:19:41   She's great too.

01:19:42   They don't have as much to do as I had hoped.

01:19:45   Eugene Cordero who is great and was on The Good Place and is in Star Trek Lower Decks.

01:19:54   He's in it but not a lot and again it's one of those things I would have liked to see

01:19:59   more.

01:20:00   One of the funny things about this and sort of the head fake about this show is that it

01:20:04   has always been promoted as being a mini series essentially.

01:20:09   And the big reveal at the end of the last episode is Loki will return for season two

01:20:16   which I was so happy to see because it kind of ends on a cliffhanger and I thought are

01:20:21   you ripping us off and you're going to make us watch a bunch of future Marvel movies in

01:20:24   order to see the results and the answer is no they're going to do another season.

01:20:29   I don't think the cliffhangers resolved in season two of Loki honestly.

01:20:33   Well I think that a lot of the cliffhanger will be resolved in season two of Loki actually.

01:20:39   I think that it has some references to the movies and kicks off the movies but I do think

01:20:45   that there's so much here about the TVA and about what's going on with Owen Wilson and

01:20:50   where did where did Ravonna Renslayer go and like all of those things are up in the air.

01:20:55   I imagine we'll see all of those stories but I could imagine any or all of these people

01:21:01   to pop up anywhere at any point during the next couple of years.

01:21:05   Yeah but I suspect that the story of this particular group is going to be largely told

01:21:10   in the next season of Loki and that works for me because this is actually in hindsight

01:21:15   is structured like a TV show about the people at the TVA and where is Ravonna going at the

01:21:21   end of the show and how is the creation of a multiverse and different timelines changing

01:21:29   everything and I think that you know we're not some of this may pop up in Marvel movies

01:21:36   but I feel like there's a through line here that fits. I didn't feel like when they said

01:21:41   there's a season two I didn't feel like I got kind of sold an empty box where it's like

01:21:44   well really all of these dangling threads will just sort of be hinted at or picked up

01:21:49   in a bunch of different Marvel movies in the Doctor Strange movie or the Ant-Man movie.

01:21:52   It's not like no like a second season is going to explain what's going on with these characters

01:21:57   and it's like that's great that's that's actually what I want plus I loved it so I do want I

01:22:01   do want a second season of it. Same. Jonathan Majors oh my god. Yeah wow good one episode

01:22:09   performance so I think technically and he's great in Lovecraft Country too if you haven't

01:22:14   seen that though he was great in that which they didn't which just got a bunch of Emmy

01:22:19   nominations and got cancelled. Yeah I think we spoke about that last time right because

01:22:23   it was a sign to deal with Apple. Yeah it makes me wonder if HBO like knew they were

01:22:29   going to get nominated and so they got that cancellation out in advance just to like make

01:22:33   it not be quite as embarrassing but still really embarrassing anyway he's great. Big

01:22:39   ask I think to have a character who has not appeared in any of the other episodes be the

01:22:44   character at the end but they're definitely going for a Wizard of Oz thing where like

01:22:49   they said that the the the time keepers are kind of modeled on his face and they did that

01:22:55   because they wanted to be like like the Wizard of Oz and then the man behind the curtain

01:23:00   they really wanted that to be the effect and I think what's interesting about this is everybody

01:23:04   knew that he'd been cast as a villain that is probably the major villain of the next

01:23:09   phase of Marvel movies. What I think is interesting is I'm not sure I believe that this is that

01:23:18   Loki was necessary to set that up I think it's more like they saw an opportunity yes

01:23:23   to tell this story that kicks it off like you could just introduce Jonathan Majors in

01:23:28   Ant-Man and say here's this guy but they they had like what if we went back a step and had

01:23:36   like page zero of that guy's story and showed him as the the the man behind the curtain

01:23:45   and they built this show around that and yes when he appears he is super strange he is

01:23:49   acting the hell out of it and I think he did a great job. I was blown away I was absolutely

01:23:54   blown away about performance so again again this is stuff from the behind the scenes thing

01:23:57   so he was there one day right he arrived on set and did all that in one day and it was

01:24:04   like at the end of the whole shooting which is kind of incredible the character he plays

01:24:13   so he who remains is that the name of the character they were saying that like this

01:24:19   persona the way he's acting that's not going to be how Kang acts right right which is also

01:24:25   super interesting because effectively like this guy could just keep showing up in the

01:24:30   multiverse isn't playing completely different types of people which is fascinating to me.

01:24:35   One of the things that I like about the way this show is structured is it's a time travel

01:24:38   show and the idea is if you control time travel and this has been used even in Doctor Who

01:24:43   it's been used in other formats but I like this idea that if you could control time travel

01:24:48   and you find a timeline where you win and you control everything till the end of time

01:24:55   of course you're going to build a structure that prevents anybody from doing anything

01:24:59   different from that which is what the show starts with right is there's the one true

01:25:03   timeline and it's very clear I think from fairly early on that the logical reason you

01:25:07   have a one true timeline is that there's somebody out there who really likes how time ended

01:25:11   up and doesn't want there to be any alternatives to the one where they win and so the he who

01:25:17   remains when we meet him the man behind the curtain he's basically saying look I know

01:25:22   you think that free will is important but I've seen all of the options and this is the

01:25:28   best one and the answer is well it's rich coming from you you're the guy at the end

01:25:32   of the universe you it's rich coming from you saying we don't deserve free will because

01:25:38   you won at the end but and that's what silvie basically does right she's like no free will

01:25:44   I'm gonna kill you and his response is like well see you later because he knows that about

01:25:50   all those other options so in some ways it's like we're seeing his story in reverse that

01:25:56   this was his kind of culmination of like the one true path for him and now we're going

01:26:01   to see what happens when that true path is kind of cut off I I'm not sure it makes sense

01:26:06   because it's time travel and time travel never makes sense but like dramatically I I really

01:26:10   like that idea that you what we're meeting is we're meeting kind of the most benign kind

01:26:14   of end state of him but still holding on to his power and control and preventing there

01:26:18   from being free will in the universe and and it's it's an almost biblical kind of thing

01:26:24   right because what silvie really does here is is it's the I want I want freedom and and

01:26:30   you will be cast out of whatever you know it's his Eden but like cast out of this orderly

01:26:34   world into complete disorder but at least we have our freedom it's fascinating stuff

01:26:39   loved it and and what a yeah what a great performance by by him in that last episode

01:26:46   good stuff looking forward to his next appearance and they did set like in the documentary like

01:26:53   he's the next big villain and will be for a long time like they just said like you know

01:26:57   we're looking forward to working with him for many years he's he's he seems to be the

01:27:00   fan of this next phase of it I was blown away by that episode it was it was my favorite

01:27:08   episode of the season but it had one thing in it that I really didn't look at one of

01:27:12   my lower points of the season was Loki and Sylvie's fight it was kind of unnecessary

01:27:17   for me yeah you know it's that same thing I think we said this before with Falcon and

01:27:23   Winter Soldier and even also with WandaVision like Marvel feel like they have to have these

01:27:27   big fights for it to be Marvel the one thing I liked about the fight is that it's also

01:27:32   a conversation that they're having and the conversation is good and then the fight is

01:27:36   like the eye candy which I agree it's I it's not that exciting it's not not that great

01:27:41   but I I kind of appreciate the idea I kind of admire the idea that that these are these

01:27:46   two characters having a conversation yeah and fighting they tried but like I just didn't

01:27:51   buy that they would be yeah it didn't seem like the like that moment I want to do a shout

01:27:56   out to Richard E. Grant great Oscar-nominated actor as old Loki wearing the comic book outfit

01:28:04   of Loki that episode which is set in this sort of weird afterlife that is actually real

01:28:10   where there's a kid Loki and an old Loki and an alligator Loki and there's frog Thor is

01:28:14   visible at one point full of all these references that's a great and there's President Loki

01:28:19   at the end before they escape and like it's just but Richard E. Grant was great to see

01:28:23   and he he had he had the story arc sort of of all those Loki's wrapped up into his story

01:28:29   which was pretty nice and I mentioned earlier but Natalie Holt who is the the composer and

01:28:38   she has appeared and participated in a bunch of scores but like I feel like this is one

01:28:46   of her highest profile things like hi hey movie people hire Natalie Holt to score your

01:28:52   movie she's amazing the score of Loki is beautiful the first three episode score I think is on

01:28:59   Apple Music right now I don't know if the the next three are out yet or if they're coming

01:29:02   out soon but like that I love the score for this it's so weird and brilliant and she's

01:29:10   an interesting character herself she's a violinist she once through through stuff at Simon Cowell

01:29:17   on stage oh my god yes I know yes I saw this yeah she she she protested Britain's Got Talent

01:29:24   or X Factor or something yeah she was playing she was playing for one of the contestants

01:29:29   and then she just got up and started like throwing food at Simon Cowell because of his

01:29:35   quote dreadful influence on the music business which was amazing so on an episode of Britain's

01:29:40   Got Talent in 2013 anyway she's brilliant and the score is fantastic and like I enjoyed

01:29:47   the story of Loki and I enjoyed the performances but if you had given me just the way it looks

01:29:52   the direction the cinematography the production design and the way it sounds with the music

01:29:57   that enough would be one of my favorite shows of the last five years like that that alone

01:30:04   would be enough because it looks and sounds so good so I don't know if Marvel can keep

01:30:08   it up these I think we've ended the preliminary live-action Marvel like the launch shows so

01:30:18   they are gonna do what if which is an animated show that's coming out next but then they

01:30:22   will have starting this fall and winter will be kind of like the next wave of these shows

01:30:27   and we'll see how those go but like it's been interesting to watch these three and sort

01:30:32   of see what works and what doesn't work about all of them but the Loki show is the that's

01:30:36   the that's the winner like that's the one where it all came together and they knew it

01:30:41   I think so the main thing that I like about what they've been doing and I think they're

01:30:45   going to continue especially because of the types of projects they have coming next I

01:30:50   like that they get really weird with these that and they're not scared to write no they

01:30:56   get weird they get really inside baseball to the comics like they all of these shows

01:31:02   have been doing that and I really appreciate that one of the things that we've said on

01:31:07   the incomparable about Marvel movies again and again is that one of the things I love

01:31:12   about Marvel movies is that Marvel has been willing to take some chances and do movies

01:31:19   that are in like their own genre inside a Marvel movie like that they're that they're

01:31:27   willing to do a heist movie right or a murder mystery or whatever is like they can make

01:31:33   other kinds of movies within a Marvel movie and with these TV shows you got to do even

01:31:40   more like they need to be their own things they need to have their own feel it gives

01:31:44   you as creators like freedom to do different kinds of stories and if I have I have many

01:31:49   criticisms of Falcon Winter Soldier because I think it was kind of a flop and I understand

01:31:52   that in many ways it's because of the production and changes that happened with COVID but I

01:31:58   think my biggest criticism of it is it just feels like a generic Marvel movie and I think

01:32:03   that's a mistake I think you want them all to have their own unique feel and that one

01:32:09   it felt like they were they it was the first one they put in production and they were playing

01:32:12   it safe and they're like let's literally just make a long Marvel movie and chop it into

01:32:15   episodes and what WandaVision and Loki teach us is don't do that make it weird you know

01:32:24   and it can be differently weird make it the right kind of weird for the characters that

01:32:28   you're you're doing so like Moon Knight is with Oscar Isaac is in production and that's

01:32:33   a show about a superhero who has multiple personalities and it's very modern interpretations

01:32:40   of that character it's very psychological it's about mental health and mental illness

01:32:46   it like really grapples with those issues and it's like that is what I mean by be true

01:32:50   to the character and be weird the way the characters are like just commit to it and

01:32:55   have it be about something and and have its own personality so I'm excited and I hope

01:33:00   they they keep doing it because it allows them to take what they've done with the movies

01:33:03   and like extend it even further.

01:33:05   This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Hullo.

01:33:07   Hullo make incredibly comfortable buckwheat pillows.

01:33:11   I absolutely love my Hullo pillow.

01:33:13   I sleep on it every single night and have been doing so for years because it is so comfortable

01:33:18   I get just the amount of support that I'm looking for the pillow doesn't collapse when

01:33:21   I lay on it like a traditional pillow the buckwheat really it keeps its shape but it

01:33:27   also because I don't know if it's like it's not like a beanbag but it's the closest thing

01:33:32   I can attribute it to it's got a different feel to that but it's like a little individual

01:33:36   buckwheat hulls that is like little things you can go look on their website kind of like

01:33:40   tiny little soft shells or something I've really struggled to explain what it's like

01:33:44   because they really like unlike anything else I've seen before but what by doing this by

01:33:48   being this little individual beads I'll now say for the I think the third and final synonym

01:33:53   that I'll attempt to put to this thing it means that the filling can be suited to you

01:33:58   so it can be the right size that you want which is awesome right so you can take add

01:34:02   and remove the the buckwheat filling if you want to but like also it being this little

01:34:07   individual items the air can flow through a pillow really nicely so you have to do that

01:34:12   thing you know when you're like it's in the middle of the night and your heart and it's

01:34:15   humid and you're flipping the pillow over to find the cool side you have to do that

01:34:19   with a hollow pillow because it's always cool air flowing through it it feels fantastic

01:34:25   and I could not recommend this enough if I ever am in a situation where I'm not sleeping

01:34:29   on my hollow pillow I wake up in the morning on my next little stiff I don't get any of

01:34:34   that with my hollow pillow because I get the support that I'm looking for and I adore it

01:34:39   hollow pillows are made in the USA with quality construction and materials the certified organic

01:34:44   cotton case is cut and sewn for durability and the buckwheat is grown and milled in the

01:34:48   US if you want to try out one of these you should and you should want to you can sleep

01:34:53   on it for 60 nights then if hollow isn't right for you just send it back for a refund just

01:34:58   go to hollow pillow.com/upgrade and get your own buckwheat pillow today that's h-u-l-l-o-p-i-l-l-o-w.com/upgrade

01:35:06   if you buy more than one they have a special discount of up to twenty dollars off depending

01:35:09   on the size you opt for they have fast free shipping of every order and one percent of

01:35:13   all profits go to the nature conservancy give it a try if you love it you keep it if you

01:35:18   don't you send it back that's hollow pillow.com/upgrade and thanks to hollow for their support of

01:35:23   this show and relay FM football is life my friend but football is also

01:35:27   death for football is also death again spoilers for Ted Lasso now what an opening I was very

01:35:39   surprised about the opening I don't know if it's something that like okay I'm not an animal

01:35:45   person right I don't know if it's something that like if you have a dog you would be upset

01:35:49   to see that dog gets killed for football but it was quite a moment okay so the clearly

01:36:02   this is based on so we're talking about season two episode one of Ted Lasso here it's clearly

01:36:08   based on Randy Johnson the baseball pitcher who during spring training and this is the

01:36:15   seven foot tall throws 100 miles an hour fastballs Randy Johnson and during spring training one

01:36:21   year he threw a pitch during a game and a bird flew between him and the batter and there's

01:36:28   video on the internet you can find it and he basically exploded the bird with the baseball

01:36:34   wow and I think this is their riff on that yeah which is and it's it's ridiculous like

01:36:43   I mean I think they tried to play it the way it is because I you know anybody who's talking

01:36:48   who's taking care of a hound is gonna like not do it the way that this guy does but they

01:36:52   try to suggest that he's like an old infirm guy with this dog and that the dog breaks

01:36:57   his lead and then rushes out onto the pitch after the pigeon I had a moment when the dog

01:37:02   is just there in the bird and I'm like this is a strangely specific set of items here

01:37:06   that have been composited onto this shot I think that perhaps this will be important

01:37:11   in a moment and the idea is just to get the dog to leave during the penalty shot to give

01:37:15   Danny Rojas a thing that he has to overcome which is that he's killed their mascot their

01:37:20   elderly mascot dog who jumped after a bird on the pitch which is also ridiculous the

01:37:25   great set up to it is this mascot I'd never mentioned before like now all of a sudden

01:37:32   the team has a mascot and it's a greyhound which makes sense for the club right because

01:37:37   like that's their logo I also noticed something which hadn't been there before the commentator

01:37:42   referred to AFC Wimbledon as the good boys which is a fantastic nickname for the club

01:37:47   like you might have like the Hammers for West Ham you know like the Gooners for Arsenal

01:37:53   right yeah AFC Wimbledon are the good boys which is so great like that is a great nickname

01:38:00   right like it just really works here it's a bunch of boys and dogs are good boys if

01:38:04   they're boy dogs you know like that's it works for me I thought it was very funny this episode

01:38:10   was so good I was so happy to be back in this world again and like just didn't miss a beat

01:38:17   I loved it I loved that it tricked me right so you know obviously one of the things that

01:38:23   they're setting up to overcome right they've got the psychologist the sports psychologist

01:38:27   yeah they say AFC Wimbledon that's the actual yeah you did AFC Richmond is obviously what

01:38:32   I meant I was waiting for the really like London deep London reference there about why

01:38:36   people from Wimbledon are good boys they are good boys in Wimbledon no I mean AFC Richmond

01:38:41   good boys yes I apologize you know like they the sports psychologist right and Ted having

01:38:47   to overcome that with someone so one of the things that struck me about season one is

01:38:51   there are all these sitcom setups that you expect to go a certain way because that's

01:38:55   the sitcom setup way to go and they go a different way and so with the sports psychologist coming

01:38:59   in who is not really having it with Ted Lasso what you expect is to be like she's his nemesis

01:39:06   and they're gonna battle back and forth and instead it's more like no she's very good

01:39:11   at her job and successful with what she does and Ted kind of has to be like oh okay like

01:39:18   my stuff doesn't work on her and like reflect about what that means about himself like it's

01:39:22   a it's really interesting that it doesn't go yeah because I thought oh this is gonna

01:39:28   be a love interest for Ted oh interesting with the way they were setting it up where

01:39:32   it's like Ted doesn't trust psychologists and then someone's gonna come in and he's

01:39:37   gonna fall for them and then he has to learn to trust psychologists but like that doesn't

01:39:42   seem like that's the thing we'll see what happens in future episodes but it doesn't

01:39:46   seem like what they're going for here we're like the way that they're setting up their

01:39:48   relationship definitely feels more like what you're saying right well like he has to also

01:39:53   like doubt if like you know like he in his mind he is the person who makes the the team

01:40:02   feel better that's his whole thing right picks the team up and he couldn't do that for Danny

01:40:09   but the I'm trying to what's the character's name I have to try to find them because I

01:40:14   don't remember I don't know the doctor not doctor doctor can do it and I thought that

01:40:20   was like a really interesting way that they're gonna go with this also speak Spanish and

01:40:25   French and that's fantastic right just like absolutely fantastic well that that's the

01:40:30   thing that makes Ted lasso being like whoa I am out of my league here yeah like this

01:40:35   person she is very impressive dr. field stone thank you okay yeah oh yes dr. field stone

01:40:40   of course what a name yeah I it's it's funny the way they they set up Danny Rojas thing

01:40:52   but like look he's the most irrepressively possible positive person right that's the

01:40:57   whole character of Danny Rojas is football is life he's so enthusiastic and so to have

01:41:02   him how would he even have a crisis of confidence right and the answer is they engineer this

01:41:07   opening episode crisis of confidence for Danny to bring in the sports psychologist and to

01:41:12   to show like what you know they do all the jokes but football is death and he's like

01:41:18   wow and then they kinda and then they kind of figure it out and wind it wind him back

01:41:24   to sort of where he is at the end and it's very impressive and like it's a that's a funny

01:41:29   it's a funny bit that that was a that was a funny bit also the show again it just hits

01:41:35   me with like I can't believe that someone made this television show like I keep saying

01:41:40   this over and over again like I can't believe that someone was allowed to make this show

01:41:44   well like they're in the pub so Ted and coach beard and he talks so openly about his experiences

01:41:54   in couples therapy and how he just feels like he was set up and like that is a thing where

01:42:02   you know I think so many people have been through that kind of thing with like a distrust

01:42:06   of therapy and that kind of stuff was like oh I'm it this person's just out to get me

01:42:11   or I don't think this person's gonna actually try and help me you know I've been in these

01:42:15   kinds of situations myself it spoke right to me and I just found it so incredible that

01:42:23   this 35-38 minute comedy can hit these notes so truthfully like these it just slices through

01:42:33   and finds these just incredible human moments I just I it blows me away how good it is really

01:42:42   does yeah I would say so if I have a criticism of this episode it's that the first half of

01:42:50   it let's say and I think they know what they're doing here right the first half of it is very

01:42:55   much like status quo like let's remind everybody and then it's introducing the conflict with

01:43:02   with with Danny but like it is kind of like oh aren't we all happy status quo yay and

01:43:10   I I watched it and I was like I don't know like this doesn't you know this doesn't seem

01:43:17   right there's some something feels wrong here something feels off but for me the thing that

01:43:23   really brought me all the way back around on it is there's Roy Kent yeah that's a great

01:43:29   B B plot is the which work and stuff which he like I appreciated in season one we know

01:43:35   that he's got his yoga group of of older ladies that don't know who he is and don't care and

01:43:42   he just goes out and hangs out with them and they talk about their things and he doesn't

01:43:45   have to worry about being Roy Kent and I like that we never saw them but in season two we

01:43:50   see them and I'm okay with that too I feel like okay we did that bit and now we're seeing

01:43:54   him settle down with them to watch reality TV and and have drink wine and stuff and like

01:44:00   I love I love that I love Jamie's on the show to Jamie Tartt is on the celebrity sex island

01:44:05   or whatever it is totally good and then and then his grappling with Keeley wants him to

01:44:13   do commentary and he doesn't want to be a talking head and he's coaching his niece's

01:44:17   soccer team and you know he he curses at them because it's Roy Kent and but like I just

01:44:24   all of that made me really happy you know the laugh out loud moment for me in the whole

01:44:30   episode is there that when when Danny Rojas wakes up in a cold sweat and and screams out

01:44:38   loud because he's having a nightmare about killing the dog we see that he's sleeping

01:44:42   with two women in his bed yeah and that's it that's all we get it's like okay it's great

01:44:46   it's Ted Lasso it's Danny Rojas I'm sure everybody there is having a great time and it's great

01:44:51   and but I just love that moment of like we didn't need to show this this way but we did

01:44:56   I'm like that's just it's just amazing it's like professional football all right like

01:45:01   that's what they do I don't and I don't know about Danny Rojas his life and I don't know

01:45:05   who the other people in the bed with him are and I it's and it's Ted Lasso right so I'm

01:45:09   like beautiful we like well that's not something that we knew about Danny Rojas and now we

01:45:14   do great like I just it was just so hilarious I love the attitude in Nate's character in

01:45:21   this season when he's like it's like oh we're gonna give him some motivation it's like is

01:45:26   his paycheck not enough I really loved that little like those little moments from him

01:45:32   were very good oh and look with the with the other like the kick boy and he's like soap

01:45:37   super mad about him wanting to leave early so clearly Nate okay structurally season one

01:45:45   ends on it's a low but it's also kind of a high and then you've got to build a story

01:45:50   arc for season two you have 12 episodes you got it you have to tell a story here so you

01:45:54   got to start you got to start introducing challenges for the characters so we get some

01:45:57   challenges for the characters we get the fact that the team which we're like oh well they've

01:46:01   turned it around and I know they're being relegated but they're really gonna turn it

01:46:04   around but at the start of this they haven't won they've only ever tied which is the worst

01:46:09   thing it's it is purgatory right for Ted Lasso especially like how can you even tie you guys

01:46:14   do ties here now it's nothing but ties for Ted Lasso you got to get over it so that gives

01:46:19   us some structure to like the drama of the season and then with Nate Nate went from being

01:46:25   the downtrodden equipment guy to being an assistant coach and sort of like a hero who

01:46:30   was like plucky and and and kind of came into his own I think it's clear that the story

01:46:36   for Nate in season two is he's trying to deal with being a coach and he's a little he hasn't

01:46:43   really gotten how should I put this he needs to learn from Ted about how to be a good coach

01:46:48   Ted and beard right because I think he doesn't know he's playing the role of the typical

01:46:55   football coach yes yeah I think that's it and so you see him be mean to the guy who's

01:46:59   his replacement which he shouldn't be mean to and he has that moment of like well we're

01:47:04   paying him isn't that enough that we're paying him so yeah he's Nate not only gets to kind

01:47:09   of voice those things but I feel like the story for Nate is going to be Nate needs to

01:47:14   learn how to be like Ted and beard or be the Nate version of them and that he has to learn

01:47:21   some lessons there that he's trying now he's trying to be a coach and he's losing some

01:47:27   of what made him so endearing and I think that that's the story that they're they're

01:47:30   gonna be telling with him and maybe I'll be wrong maybe they'll go another direction but

01:47:34   that seems to me that that's what they're trying to do with Nate yeah and it's just

01:47:37   it seems so funny to me because it's so out of like character of everything else that's

01:47:42   going on and it's just and also of him too right like he's something's changed in him

01:47:48   now right that wasn't there before yeah I I just adored it I think is such a good start

01:47:53   to the season there's there's a lot of stuff this is obviously it's it's the beginning

01:47:57   episode there's a lot of setup stuff right that's coming down the pipe right like obviously

01:48:02   there's a big story for Rebecca that we're yet to see right where somebody or she's going

01:48:08   to be looking for somebody in her life right and that's going to be a story that we're

01:48:13   probably going to go through for a bit yeah I I can't wait I can't wait now for every

01:48:20   Friday I just you know that I think they did exactly what I wanted in that first episode

01:48:25   like I enjoyed it just as much as I have every other episode and yeah I like I said I I got

01:48:31   a little worried at the beginning and it felt better as it went along and honestly I read

01:48:34   some reviews that said the same thing that like in the first episode you're like what

01:48:37   are they doing and then like as the first I think reviewers have seen the first six

01:48:42   like all of the reviews like yeah it's fine like don't don't get worried if it starts

01:48:46   out and you're like wait this seems a little bit weird like it's fine it's it's fine it

01:48:50   will be the show that you expect it to be so great can't wait I love that they're back

01:48:55   to our kind of anti-binge-washing point I love that they're releasing it over 12 weeks

01:49:00   in 12 episodes great and if you want more Ted Lasso talk there's an uncomfortable podcast

01:49:06   called Football is Life first episode of season two is out already and and we'll be doing

01:49:12   that week by week with again rotating group of hosts and guests and all that so people

01:49:16   should check that out.

01:49:23   That's it for this week's episode of season two of season two of season two of season

01:49:30   two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season

01:49:37   two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season

01:49:44   two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season

01:49:51   two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season

01:49:58   two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season

01:50:05   two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season two of season

01:50:12   [Music]