362: He's Posting More Chickens!


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:13   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 362, and today's show is brought to you by Instabug,

00:00:20   Privacy and DoorDash.

00:00:22   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:25   Hello, Jason.

00:00:26   Hey, is this Upgrade, the podcast that I listen to that I'm occasionally on?

00:00:31   You're completely back now.

00:00:32   Welcome back to the show.

00:00:34   I am completely back.

00:00:35   I guarantee that I will be on this whole episode and not disappear in the middle for a while.

00:00:39   Probably.

00:00:40   Probably.

00:00:41   How would you know, right?

00:00:42   You'd have to wait and see what happens when I put some real fun.

00:00:44   I don't know.

00:00:45   I don't know.

00:00:46   #snowtalkquestion comes from Mark and Mark wants to know, "Do you use a screensaver on

00:00:51   your Mac or do you just dim your screen?"

00:00:54   Yeah, I use Arial like everyone else.

00:01:01   It's fine.

00:01:02   I like to see it.

00:01:03   I like to see it on the Apple TV.

00:01:04   I don't know why I use it.

00:01:05   I don't know why I don't have some other screensaver or no screensaver.

00:01:09   I just do.

00:01:10   It's on for a very small amount of time.

00:01:13   I've got some sort of window in between when it dims the screen entirely where the screensaver

00:01:18   runs.

00:01:19   My answer is, Mark, yes, I can tell you I do.

00:01:23   Why I do, I don't know.

00:01:25   I think it's more like a mistake than something else.

00:01:27   I find no value on it.

00:01:29   Arial is the one where it flies around and shows you the scenery, the international spaces.

00:01:34   The Apple TV screensaver is the Arial screensaver.

00:01:37   On your Mac?

00:01:38   Yeah.

00:01:39   Is this built in?

00:01:40   Is it?

00:01:41   Or did I maybe...

00:01:42   I think you've got an app called Arial, A-E-R-I-A-L maybe, because they're not built into the Mac,

00:01:47   the Apple TV screensavers.

00:01:49   Maybe I downloaded a thing that lets you do the...

00:01:52   I mean, I've got it.

00:01:53   I've got Arial as my screensaver, and it's literally the Apple TV screensavers.

00:01:57   Okay.

00:01:58   I'm going to put in the show notes what I think you have, which is a...

00:02:02   Oh, you're right.

00:02:03   Yeah.

00:02:04   So this is how little care I put in to my screensavers.

00:02:07   A million years ago, there was a story about how you could get the Apple TV screensavers

00:02:11   on your Mac, and I downloaded the thing and promptly forgot about it.

00:02:18   So it's there.

00:02:19   I'm not going to put in your Apple TV screensavers on it, but I'm going to invalidate this whole

00:02:21   Snell Talk question now by changing it to something else maybe.

00:02:25   Okay.

00:02:26   Or not.

00:02:27   I did Arabesque for a while, which is like all the weird patterns.

00:02:30   And of course, back in the day, Flurry was the classic.

00:02:33   But really, it doesn't matter.

00:02:36   I don't see it very often.

00:02:38   And then my screen blanks after a short amount of time.

00:02:41   So I've got show screensaver set to 30 minutes, and I've got turn display off to an hour.

00:02:48   So for half an hour, if I step away, which I'm very rarely gone, but yeah, I am gone

00:02:53   sometimes for an hour, that half an hour, it will play the aerial screensaver.

00:03:00   In Monterey, I can do that cute little hello screensaver.

00:03:04   Is that in Monterey?

00:03:05   I think so, yeah.

00:03:07   Because I have it set...

00:03:08   I have that one, the hello screensaver on my iMac set after 20 minutes.

00:03:14   And that is the color match screensaver that comes with the new iMacs.

00:03:21   So I have that.

00:03:22   I have that set for 20 minutes.

00:03:23   I never otherwise would have a screensaver, but I really like this screensaver.

00:03:28   And it comes as default on these Macs with the color match one that you're using.

00:03:33   And it fills me with joy whenever I see it.

00:03:35   So I do have that on there.

00:03:37   So while we're talking about screensavers, and I used to be a big fan, I was on the screensaver

00:03:44   beat briefly at Mac User when I started there.

00:03:46   I wrote about After Dark and all of that back in the day, Flying Toasters, all those things.

00:03:50   I even judged, they had a contest for like, people wrote screensavers and the After Dark

00:03:56   people had a whole contest of like, what were the best submitted screensavers.

00:04:00   And I was a judge in that.

00:04:02   Things were really different back then, weren't they, Jason?

00:04:04   It was a wild time.

00:04:07   People were very excited about screensavers.

00:04:09   And then there was underwear, which was the screensaver that ran on your desktop while

00:04:13   you worked.

00:04:14   So stuff happened on your desktop while you worked, which was a pretty wild thing.

00:04:19   But the screensaver, my favorite screensaver of all time, and I used it for a very long

00:04:23   time, it doesn't work anymore as far as I can tell.

00:04:27   And I liked it because it was funny and because it also made a statement about bad network

00:04:32   security.

00:04:33   It was a screensaver called Surveillance Saver.

00:04:36   And basically what Surveillance Saver did is there were whole networks of webcams in, and

00:04:43   this is in the, I'd say early 2000s, where they're internet connected security cameras.

00:04:50   And if you didn't change the default password, anybody could see what was on the camera.

00:04:58   And Surveillance Saver had a catalog of all of them and would just take you to random

00:05:03   security cameras every 20 seconds, it would flip to a different one.

00:05:08   And first off, that's hilarious.

00:05:11   Like don't do that.

00:05:12   But the thing that I loved about it is that I think in the end, its list wasn't that large.

00:05:17   And so you'd get favorites.

00:05:19   And there was this bar in somewhere in Russia.

00:05:23   And I loved that camera so much because you're flipping, you're like, oh, we're in the bar.

00:05:29   And it would be like these Russian guys, like with their heads down on the bar, like passed

00:05:35   out, or maybe they're active and they're moving to the music and you never know what you're

00:05:40   going to get.

00:05:41   There was also a lot of like a corridor or a dumpster outside some building that was

00:05:47   also, I thought very, very funny.

00:05:50   But anyway, Surveillance Saver, that was from a different time.

00:05:53   Although we still live in an age where people have the default password for things.

00:05:56   So it's not great.

00:05:58   It's not great.

00:05:59   Sometimes you truly never know where a Snell Talk question is going to take you.

00:06:04   It's true.

00:06:05   You never do.

00:06:06   It could take you into the flying toasters for all we know.

00:06:08   If you would like to send in a question to help us open an episode of the show, just

00:06:12   send in a tweet with the hashtag Snell Talk or use question mark Snell Talk in the RelayFM

00:06:17   members discord.

00:06:19   So Jason, let's do a bit of summer of fun here.

00:06:23   You were gone last week.

00:06:24   Where were you?

00:06:26   Because was revealed, I think in the Upgrade Plus.

00:06:32   And you never know when you're doing...

00:06:33   So we recorded my portion of that episode last week, two weeks ago, right after we recorded

00:06:39   episode 360, Upgrade 360, your high quality audio.

00:06:45   We didn't even talk about that, right?

00:06:47   Because we didn't know.

00:06:48   We got several people who wrote in after we released our lossless edition and our incredibly

00:06:54   low resolution edition.

00:06:55   We had several people write in to say, "Oh man, the lossless edition, it sounds so much

00:07:01   better.

00:07:02   You should always do a lossless edition."

00:07:03   And my response was, "I think probably what you're sensing is that you're listening to

00:07:07   it like in a web browser instead of in Overcast with voice boost and smart speed turned on.

00:07:13   And so it sounds different, not that it sounds better."

00:07:15   Although there is at least one emailer who has insisted that it does sound better on

00:07:20   his iPad speakers, which I find also a little bit hilarious that like, "Oh yes, really you

00:07:26   have to use an iPad speaker for the true lossless audio experience."

00:07:31   I don't know.

00:07:32   Anyway, thank you to everybody who wrote in about our little ironic experiment.

00:07:36   But after that-

00:07:37   There was more people who downloaded those files than I was expecting.

00:07:41   I kind of assumed it would be like a hundred people or something.

00:07:45   I'm actually going to look right now.

00:07:46   I haven't looked since like the first couple of days, but let me see what we've got here.

00:07:53   It was kind of for each one of them, it was about 3000 people went and did that, which

00:07:58   I think is kind of hilarious that many people decided to go and check out our weird and

00:08:04   wonderful audio.

00:08:06   And the low resolution one where it's like you're listening to it at the bottom of a

00:08:09   swimming pool is amazing.

00:08:12   It's so bad.

00:08:13   It's terrible.

00:08:14   That one's so bad.

00:08:15   I was so pleased about just how bad it was.

00:08:19   So anyway, after we were done with that episode, we recorded my portions of 361.

00:08:24   We talked about streaming services and we did Snell Talk and we did Ask Upgrade.

00:08:28   And then you, over the week, you recorded in the middle.

00:08:31   But what's funny about that is that you're making promises about the future.

00:08:35   So it's like, "Oh, Jason, where are you today?"

00:08:37   I'm like, "Okay, on a beach in Hawaii, probably."

00:08:43   And then we finished doing upgrade.

00:08:45   And I literally, then I got in the car and drove to the airport.

00:08:47   So that was my Monday two weeks ago.

00:08:51   It turns out that on that following Monday, I was indeed at one point on a beach in Hawaii.

00:08:55   So it all worked out.

00:08:59   We did a family trip.

00:09:00   My daughter was down from school for a few weeks after the school year let out.

00:09:05   She's going to go back up to Oregon, but she's been down for a few weeks.

00:09:09   And we went for 10 days to Maui, where you went on your honeymoon.

00:09:15   We were in Kihei, which is the sort of sunny beach town part of Maui.

00:09:21   And yeah, 10 days, I've always thought I very...

00:09:25   Usually my vacations are not that long.

00:09:28   And this is the point where somebody said, I think last week I saw a tweet went by that

00:09:33   said, "You know you're listening to an American when they talk about a 10-day long vacation

00:09:38   as being a long vacation."

00:09:40   I'm like, yeah, it's true.

00:09:41   It's true.

00:09:42   I'm not denying it.

00:09:43   But I always have felt like the 10 days is where you get that sort of, you're able to

00:09:49   fully kind of unclench from your life and be there and let it kind of wash over you

00:09:57   if it doesn't really matter.

00:09:59   We're here for a while.

00:10:01   And I was once again reminded that that's actually true.

00:10:04   That after a week, it feels like we just got here and now we have to go.

00:10:07   After 10 days, I would have, don't get me wrong, would have liked to stay longer, but

00:10:11   it was also like, okay, we had a good time.

00:10:13   That was really nice.

00:10:14   And it was...

00:10:15   And so 10 days, haven't done that in a while.

00:10:19   I like Maui.

00:10:20   We were there two years ago for what was essentially my daughter's graduation from high school trip,

00:10:27   but she broke her foot while she was dancing in her dance class.

00:10:32   And so that was our trip to Hawaii where we couldn't walk anywhere because she couldn't...

00:10:37   She was in a boot, the ugly shoe, we called it.

00:10:41   She was in the ugly shoe.

00:10:43   And so we go to the beach, but she had the ugly shoe.

00:10:49   So this was kind of like a replay of that because we had such a great time and we wanted

00:10:54   to go back and also at this time she wouldn't have a broken foot.

00:10:57   And we did have a great time.

00:10:59   So I love Hawaii.

00:11:01   It's my favorite.

00:11:02   And I go there and I'm like, "Oh man, I built up Hawaii way too much."

00:11:06   And it's not gonna... it's gonna disappoint me.

00:11:08   And you know what?

00:11:09   It never disappoints me.

00:11:10   It really doesn't.

00:11:11   It's warm and breezy.

00:11:12   And going in the summer is a little bit weird because as a kid, my parents took me to Hawaii

00:11:16   a couple of times, which is why I fell in love with Hawaii.

00:11:19   But there, when you're leaving the cold and rainy, going to Hawaii is like, "Oh my God,

00:11:24   this is so much better."

00:11:25   But the truth is this time of year here where I live tends to be foggy and cool.

00:11:31   So it was a treat to be in actual summery conditions for that 10 days.

00:11:37   So it was really nice to be there and to get away and to not bring a keyboard.

00:11:44   I didn't bring a laptop.

00:11:45   I didn't bring my iPad keyboard.

00:11:47   I didn't bring a microphone, podcast or tip.

00:11:49   I didn't do that either.

00:11:51   I didn't edit any podcasts while I was there.

00:11:54   I posted a couple of links where I'm scrolling through Twitter and I saw something interesting

00:11:58   because I do have a website and the first week I was there, Dan Morin was also on vacation.

00:12:05   So it's like sixcolors.com was just abandoned for a week.

00:12:09   So I prewrote an article the previous week that posted and Steven Hackett wrote his members

00:12:14   only piece that week.

00:12:15   And I posted a couple of links from there and it was enough to keep the fire burning

00:12:22   while we were both gone.

00:12:24   So I did that, but that was about it.

00:12:27   It was what I said to Lauren is I'm not going to do anything that I really consider work,

00:12:33   but posting a link to Six Colors, like that's not, that's nothing.

00:12:37   It's not a problem.

00:12:39   Those posts tend to be, that's as easy as doing a share button and it's like replying

00:12:43   to a tweet.

00:12:44   Like it's that level of difficulty.

00:12:47   So that was pretty easy.

00:12:48   So yeah, it was great.

00:12:49   I would like to talk to you about your Instagram because I feel like you were punishing me

00:12:55   for some reason.

00:12:56   So I'll give you an example of what happened here.

00:13:00   So just as we're finishing up our recording and I say to Jason, I'm really pleased for

00:13:06   you.

00:13:07   Have a great time.

00:13:08   I can't wait to see some photos, right?

00:13:09   Uh huh.

00:13:10   And like, yeah, okay, great.

00:13:12   So Jason goes on his trip and then a couple of days in he posts a picture of some chickens.

00:13:17   Chickens and I'm like, all right, fine.

00:13:19   I'm looking forward to the better pictures.

00:13:21   The next day, more chickens.

00:13:24   You are in one of the most beautiful places on earth.

00:13:27   All I want is oceans and beaches and like mountains and you're just like two, especially

00:13:33   one of them is like one of the, like you basically, I don't know what you did, like 10 times optical

00:13:38   zoom on this chicken or something.

00:13:40   Like why were you nagging me with chickens for three days?

00:13:44   What was that?

00:13:45   Well, one of the things that I like about Hawaii is, especially since the hurricane

00:13:51   blew through on Kauai, but even on Maui, this is the case.

00:13:54   There are loose chickens everywhere.

00:13:56   They're everywhere.

00:13:57   Like when you're eating outside and stuff, there's just chickens everywhere, especially

00:14:00   in Kihei.

00:14:01   We found that.

00:14:02   Yeah.

00:14:03   We went to a shave ice place and um, there were just like roosters and hens and little

00:14:06   chicks running around.

00:14:07   I think I know that exact place.

00:14:08   So I think we had shave ice there.

00:14:10   There's a beautiful cafe there.

00:14:11   Really nice shave ice.

00:14:12   Yeah, exactly.

00:14:14   So and so they're cute and they're fun and I took pictures of them and um, I'll tell

00:14:20   you it's a side effect also of being with the Apple watch where I'm not always, so Lauren

00:14:26   brings her phone with her, but I didn't bring my phone with me a bunch of places because

00:14:30   I have my Apple watch and that means I can't, when I don't have my phone with me, I can't

00:14:33   take pictures and I can't post pictures on Instagram.

00:14:36   So that was, that was part of it.

00:14:39   Okay.

00:14:40   I did get, I did finally get around to posting actual nice pictures, but, but the first few

00:14:45   days it was, uh, it was just chickens.

00:14:48   Basically for two days it was just me at home screaming to Adina, he's posting more chickens.

00:14:53   That was kind of all like, I was very frustrated.

00:14:56   So we went, yeah, we went to Lahaina to the Banyan tree in Lahaina and there was all these

00:15:00   chickens around there and I took a picture of that and then we were on a little walk

00:15:03   on a beautiful, just absolutely beautiful, um, uh, by the coast and all of that.

00:15:09   Uh, and we were in the, on this resort that's kind of under construction and so you have

00:15:13   to walk through this different path to, to go around the shoreline and they have this,

00:15:17   it's essentially like a putting green kind of quality grass and there's these benches

00:15:20   and we sit down to take a little break on our hike and, uh, and in front of us there

00:15:25   are a bunch of chickens.

00:15:26   And so of course, have I taken a picture of the, uh, of the beautiful scenery?

00:15:29   No, but look at those chickens.

00:15:31   So I took another chicken picture.

00:15:32   So I'll make, I'll endeavor in all future vacations to post chicken pictures for you,

00:15:38   Myke.

00:15:39   Thank you.

00:15:40   I'll appreciate that.

00:15:41   You're welcome.

00:15:42   You're welcome.

00:15:43   How did it feel to actually, to take a break?

00:15:44   Were you, you know, we, were you anxious in any way?

00:15:50   Like how did it feel to take that trip?

00:15:55   I mean, I felt like I really needed it.

00:15:58   I'm like, like it, somebody who works at home and very rarely leaves my house.

00:16:03   And we'd done a couple of, of trips during COVID where we went to our friends who have

00:16:07   a rental in Sonoma for a couple of days where they had nobody else going.

00:16:12   And we just sort of slid in there for a couple of days.

00:16:14   We did that in September and we did that in February, but it, and being somewhere else

00:16:19   was nice, but like, it's been quite a while since I've gone away somewhere and just sort

00:16:25   of not worked.

00:16:28   I can not work here, but it's not a way.

00:16:31   And I've gone away to like visit my mom and I've also worked, but to, to get those two

00:16:36   things together, it's just, it reminds me that, um, that vacation are important for

00:16:42   me just to get away, um, and to kind of heal a little bit.

00:16:47   And with, uh, with the pandemic, it's been, it's been impossible to do that in certain

00:16:52   ways.

00:16:53   I think also one of the things that I was thinking about is the difference between a,

00:17:00   an isolation trip and, and a kind of not isolation trip.

00:17:07   Like this is not, we didn't go to a place where there's no internet, right?

00:17:11   Like I'm part of that is a decision that I made, which is, I mean, first off, there's

00:17:16   a reality that like my kids would mutiny if there was no internet, but also for me, like

00:17:23   I want to read stuff on the internet too.

00:17:25   Like that's not, that's not the burden that I bear as a person in the 21st century.

00:17:29   It's like, I want to read that stuff too.

00:17:30   I want, I, I, I'm not trying to get away from that part of it.

00:17:34   I'm trying to get away from the grind.

00:17:36   So I was on Twitter and I was in Slack and I saw what people were doing and people were

00:17:41   talking about.

00:17:42   And so you could make an argument that like, there's a whole other level of vacation that

00:17:47   is this isolation.

00:17:49   And you know, I, I could do that, but that was not, I didn't feel like I needed to do

00:17:55   that and I didn't bother.

00:17:57   And I was okay with that.

00:17:58   Like I, I, I, uh, I don't know, cause I, sometimes I feel maybe I've just got an internal judge,

00:18:05   but sometimes I feel like I've internalized the, the judging of the internet, which is

00:18:08   like, well, you're on vacation.

00:18:09   Why are you looking at Twitter?

00:18:11   Why are you in Slack?

00:18:12   It's like, yeah, I like those things.

00:18:15   Those are not the things I'm trying to heal from and escape from.

00:18:18   Um, reading about like the soccer or, you know, watching the baseball all star game

00:18:25   or seeing what's going on or watching, you know, Disney plus or like, I'm not trying

00:18:30   to escape those parts of the world.

00:18:31   Really I'm trying to escape the grind of doing podcasts and writing articles and doing all

00:18:36   and scheduling things and doodle and all of those things that I do.

00:18:40   I am, you know, I'm trying to step off of that and not bring a keyboard and all of that.

00:18:46   So what I found about Hawaii, which I found, um, very enticing when I was there is the

00:18:52   time zone makes it really difficult to do any work, even if you wanted to.

00:18:57   It's true.

00:18:58   Cause you're far away from, from everyone, you know, this time of year, it's three hours

00:19:04   behind California.

00:19:05   So it's just as far behind California as California is behind New York.

00:19:09   That means you're six hours behind New York.

00:19:10   And of course that means you're 11 hours behind the UK and 12 hours behind Western Europe.

00:19:16   So I, yeah, like everything already happened by the time I woke up and I was not waking

00:19:22   up, I was not trying to wake up early either.

00:19:24   So as the week went on, like everything had already happened and everybody was back asleep.

00:19:29   And then in the evening, everything was kind of quiet on Twitter until the, the, the British

00:19:34   people woke up.

00:19:36   In fact, a funny thing about, about my Monday two weeks ago is we did upgrade.

00:19:42   Then we did part of the next upgrade.

00:19:44   Then I went to the airport and I traveled and I did all of this stuff and, and we were

00:19:48   in our car and then we drive across the Island and we check in and we, we, we stopped by

00:19:53   the grocery store.

00:19:54   So we have stuff to eat in the morning and all of that.

00:19:56   And we finally sit down, I sit down in our condo and I open a beer and I open Slack and

00:20:01   I think, Hey, Hey Myke.

00:20:04   And you were awake because it was already Tuesday morning.

00:20:06   Yep.

00:20:07   Yeah.

00:20:08   That was really funny to me.

00:20:09   It was a very big, long Monday for me.

00:20:12   Um, so long in fact that we did a podcast, I got on a plane, I traveled and all that.

00:20:17   And then you had, you had slept and woken up and it was Monday morning or Tuesday morning

00:20:22   because that's how far away Hawaii is.

00:20:24   And that's a nice thing too.

00:20:25   So I see the value in the kind of like total isolation thing, but it's not what I was looking

00:20:29   for.

00:20:30   And um, and I got what I was looking for, which is again, didn't have to write any articles,

00:20:35   didn't have to record any podcasts and have to edit any podcast and have to do my, what

00:20:39   I consider my job part of my job.

00:20:43   I just got to kind of not, there's just the freedom of kind of not caring.

00:20:48   I'm like, I can get up whenever.

00:20:50   I don't have a reason that I have to wake up at a particular time.

00:20:53   I don't have to go a particular place.

00:20:55   And I also read like eight books.

00:20:57   So there was that too.

00:20:58   I love that.

00:20:59   Yeah.

00:21:00   Well, I'm very pleased.

00:21:01   They weren't all like full, like thousand page novels.

00:21:03   There was, I've been going through a bunch of the Hugo award nominees for like short

00:21:08   fiction and stuff.

00:21:09   So I read like five novellas and a handful of novels too.

00:21:14   And it's just, you know, nothing better than sitting on the beach and you read a little

00:21:17   bit and then you go in the water and Bob around in the warm water for a while.

00:21:20   And then you come back out, sit on the beach, read a little bit more.

00:21:24   Oh, also app speaking of my Apple watch, I did at one point just, I was sitting on the

00:21:31   beach listening to the waves, had my AirPod pro headphones in a pass-through mode so I

00:21:37   could hear the waves and stuff and was listening to connected while sitting on the beach.

00:21:46   That was pretty fun actually.

00:21:47   I decided I didn't want to read anymore.

00:21:49   I was a little tired of reading at that point.

00:21:50   I just wanted to kind of look out at the clouds and stuff, but I wanted a little more stimulation

00:21:54   than just the sound of the waves.

00:21:56   So I had the sound of the waves and the sound of connected.

00:21:59   Perfect.

00:22:00   Really?

00:22:01   What a mix.

00:22:02   Living the dream.

00:22:03   Yeah.

00:22:04   Well, I'm very pleased for you.

00:22:05   Very jealous.

00:22:06   I hope that I can have a similar trip some point later in the year.

00:22:09   I hope so.

00:22:10   That would be nice.

00:22:12   Next week's episode, we're going to do a mic at the movies.

00:22:16   Yeah.

00:22:17   We're going to talk about Loki.

00:22:18   I really want to talk to you about Loki.

00:22:21   So if people want to finish Loki before next week's episode, they can.

00:22:25   And I'm naturally assuming that we will not be able to stop ourselves talking about the

00:22:29   opening of Ted Lasso.

00:22:30   So I figured that will probably come into conversation as well.

00:22:34   So if you want to catch up by next week's episode, there's a couple of things you can

00:22:38   go and listen to.

00:22:39   All right.

00:22:40   Let's check out that next week.

00:22:41   Are we done?

00:22:42   I think so.

00:22:43   Is this how the podcast works?

00:22:44   Nope.

00:22:45   We continue from here.

00:22:46   Oh.

00:22:47   I'm afraid you have to stick around.

00:22:48   I have to do more than one segment?

00:22:49   There's way more than this.

00:22:50   I have a lot more for you today.

00:22:51   Oh, man.

00:22:52   I need more tea.

00:22:53   All right.

00:22:54   Let me give you a break then.

00:22:55   This episode is brought to you by Instabug.

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00:24:17   So Jason, I have some Apple TV+ news for you.

00:24:21   So much.

00:24:22   I was collecting links.

00:24:24   That's another thing I did while I was on vacation.

00:24:26   There was all this news, and I was like, "Oh man, we're not going to cover this and upgrade

00:24:29   for two weeks," but I just kept adding.

00:24:32   We now have a little shared Apple note, and so I just keep seeing things, and instead

00:24:37   of pasting them into our Slack chat, I just append them to the end of the note endlessly.

00:24:43   And there was so much Apple TV+ and upstream news while I was gone, so we got to get to

00:24:48   it.

00:24:50   So the Apple are possibly attempting to require the film and TV show A24.

00:24:57   A24 produce a lot of stuff, a lot of documentaries, a lot of movies, some television shows, and

00:25:03   they already have an existing deal with Apple, which has included some stuff that's already

00:25:07   come out and some movies and shows that are in production.

00:25:12   And they're-

00:25:13   But this is a rumor that they might actually buy the studio itself.

00:25:15   It seems like A24 is attempting to put itself up for sale, and apparently, according to

00:25:20   Variety, this was something that they potentially looked at in the past, but A24 seemed to not

00:25:28   be interested then, but seemed to be now interested.

00:25:32   The potential asking price is $3 billion.

00:25:36   I have no real sense as to what that equates to when it comes to entertainment industry

00:25:43   acquisitions.

00:25:44   I feel like I'm much more put into tech stuff.

00:25:46   $3 billion seems like a lot of money, but I guess if you get a lot of IP out of it,

00:25:51   maybe it's worth it.

00:25:52   So my question is, I don't even know if it's the intellectual property, and this was the

00:25:56   question about when we talked about Reese Witherspoon's company, Hello Sunshine, the

00:26:01   same rumor about Apple being possibly interested in that, is like, "Well, what do you buy when

00:26:07   you buy a studio?"

00:26:09   Apple already is sort of booting up a studio.

00:26:12   I guess one of the things you buy is you buy talent in the sense of the people who work

00:26:18   there and the machinery of the studio.

00:26:20   So maybe it's a way to build and grow a studio fast.

00:26:26   You do get whatever they've produced archivally and whatever they've got in the works.

00:26:31   But that would be my question for people who are more in the know, which is like, if you've

00:26:37   got an independent studio that's got a small catalog of films, but not a franchise or anything

00:26:44   that you're getting out of it and not a huge catalog, when you spend $2 billion or $3 billion,

00:26:53   is that what tech people would call an aqua hire?

00:26:56   Are you really just trying to build out your studio ability and you're willing to pay for

00:27:01   it as opposed to just spending money hiring people, which you could also do?

00:27:08   That's my question.

00:27:10   We've seen these stories about Apple potentially buying this stuff.

00:27:13   And I think Apple's clearly kicking the tires here, but I do wonder if some of this is just

00:27:19   a perception thing of like, "Oh man, Apple's got a lot of money.

00:27:21   Maybe we can get some of that money."

00:27:24   It's sort of wishful.

00:27:25   Maybe they will acquire us.

00:27:28   Because I do think Apple could just not, right?

00:27:32   Apple could just keep building out its own studio structure.

00:27:36   And in fact, instead of spending $3 billion on a studio, spend that money on hiring away

00:27:42   the talent and paying them better, right?

00:27:44   You could do that and you could build a studio.

00:27:47   Buying a studio doesn't mean all those people are going to stay, right?

00:27:52   That's the trick, right?

00:27:53   Because certain people, they could do it where there's a deal, right?

00:27:59   They get money if they stay for a certain period of time.

00:28:02   But that's not going to be everybody.

00:28:04   Right.

00:28:06   That's my fear about something like this is you're kind of buying an empty box.

00:28:10   And at that point, because I look at this and I think, "Well, 824, it seems like a nice

00:28:16   company, but I don't understand why what they produced, assuming that they have ownership

00:28:21   stake and all of that stuff, that doesn't seem like it's worth it."

00:28:23   And maybe they like the executives there, but I'm not sure that's worth it when you

00:28:28   could just spend that money to build up your own thing.

00:28:31   So that's the struggle I have with this and the Hello Sunshine.

00:28:34   Hello Sunshine, at least, it's sort of like maybe Apple just really likes Reese Witherspoon

00:28:40   and her sensibility and the work she does.

00:28:43   Hello Sunshine one I understand a little bit more because it reminds me a bit more of Beats.

00:28:50   Because you get, look, if they buy Hello Sunshine, Reese Witherspoon is going to work at Apple

00:28:56   for a period of time, right?

00:28:57   That just feels like a done deal.

00:29:00   And Hello Sunshine has got a really great reputation.

00:29:05   They already have multiple projects in the works.

00:29:08   And if I'm Apple, I don't want another company to own any part of the morning show.

00:29:14   And that might be a scenario too where they're like, "We love what Reese's company does and

00:29:19   we love working with her.

00:29:21   And so what we're going to do is we're just going to own it all."

00:29:24   And then the other question is, do you own it all and fold it in?

00:29:27   Or do you say, "We're just going to own it all and let it run.

00:29:31   And all of those projects are going to come to us first.

00:29:35   And if we sell it somewhere else, well, it's us.

00:29:37   So we still get the money, but we just want to be in business with that person and that

00:29:42   company that the person has built."

00:29:44   Like I get that.

00:29:45   And so maybe that's also the case for something like A24, but I struggle with it a little

00:29:50   bit because if it's somebody who's really good and has built a good system and you think,

00:29:55   "I don't want to mess with it and I don't want a competitor to buy it.

00:29:59   So we'll just buy it and let it run."

00:30:00   I kind of get it.

00:30:01   But if it's literally just, "We could build it or buy it.

00:30:05   Why don't we buy it?"

00:30:07   Other than if Apple just wants it to happen fast and they're like, "We can just sweep

00:30:11   in A24 and A24 becomes part of Apple Studios and we're done."

00:30:16   Also A24 presumably will be a processor in 10 years.

00:30:20   So...

00:30:21   Because, you know, I was thinking like it must frustrate Apple that TAD Lasso has so

00:30:28   many companies involved in it and they're just one of them.

00:30:32   Right.

00:30:33   I mean, it is...

00:30:34   Look, they had to do this to get off the ground, but it is the least Apple thing of all to

00:30:38   think that Apple's banner project, the most important project, it turns out on Apple TV

00:30:44   Plus at this point, is a Warner Brothers product.

00:30:47   Well, see that...

00:30:48   Ouch.

00:30:49   TAD Lasso, why I bring it up specifically is it has...

00:30:52   It's got Doozer, which is the production company.

00:30:55   Which is Bill Lawrence.

00:30:57   Yeah.

00:30:58   Universal Studios and Warner Brothers all involved.

00:31:01   Yeah.

00:31:02   Universal's involved because of the NBC thing.

00:31:04   NBC thing.

00:31:05   Yeah.

00:31:06   But they're still a part of it.

00:31:07   Yeah.

00:31:08   And I think that's a great point where it's like they have one or two partners for some

00:31:10   of their other shows.

00:31:11   Right.

00:31:12   Of course, yeah, For All Mankind is Sony.

00:31:15   Like of course there are partners and that's part of it.

00:31:19   But like, I get why it's like that now, but it's not very Apple-like.

00:31:25   And I think that Apple wanting to produce more of its own things, like how Netflix produces

00:31:32   and Amazon produces its own things, it's inevitable.

00:31:37   It's inevitable.

00:31:38   I don't think Apple's ever going to be in a situation where Apple will never buy a show

00:31:41   from another studio.

00:31:43   That stuff happens.

00:31:44   It will continue to happen.

00:31:45   There are people that we're going to want to work with that are with another studio.

00:31:48   It happens in that business all the time.

00:31:51   But you know, the big stuff on HBO Max is from Warner.

00:31:58   And the big stuff on Netflix is from Netflix.

00:32:00   And the big stuff that's on Apple TV will be from Apple.

00:32:03   It's inevitable.

00:32:04   So that might be a reason for this sort of thing is we just got to get going on being

00:32:11   our own studio and buying other studios helps us get there.

00:32:15   So maybe that's their rationale.

00:32:18   Apple is apparently trying to get in on NFL Sunday Ticket.

00:32:22   What is NFL Sunday Ticket?

00:32:24   Okay.

00:32:25   Yes.

00:32:26   Hello, sports fans, American sports fans.

00:32:30   NFL Sunday Ticket is the package from the NFL that allows somebody to watch any NFL football

00:32:38   game.

00:32:39   So the way it works in America is every NFL football game is broadcast by a TV network.

00:32:46   But the Sunday games are only shown locally.

00:32:49   And I know that seems a little bit weird if you're not an American.

00:32:51   But the idea there is if you're in Cincinnati, one of your channels is showing the Bengals

00:32:57   game and the other channel is showing a random game that they've chosen.

00:33:02   If you're in the Bay Area, one of your channels is showing a 49er game and the other channel

00:33:06   is showing a random game.

00:33:07   It used to be a Raider game.

00:33:09   Now it's a random game, which means that there's this you can't if you're a fan of the Bengals

00:33:14   and you live in the Bay Area, you can't see your team play unless they're on a national

00:33:19   broadcast because that game isn't being shown in the local market.

00:33:23   Instead, they're showing the Chargers, let's say.

00:33:27   So Sunday ticket, you buy it and you get all those games, access to all those games.

00:33:32   So you can watch all of them.

00:33:34   They have their own red zone channel, which shows sort of like switches back and forth

00:33:38   between all the games.

00:33:39   Or you can just park it on one channel and watch that game.

00:33:43   I used to buy this.

00:33:44   Now I just get the red zone, but I used to buy this.

00:33:47   It's an exclusive to DirecTV, which is a satellite provider, which is a really interesting wrinkle.

00:33:52   It drove a huge amount of DirecTV sales because they were literally the only place they were

00:33:57   that you could get this package.

00:33:58   But that contract is running out.

00:34:01   And the general feeling is that it's going to go to a streaming service that the NFL

00:34:07   again, the NFL could sell it themselves direct.

00:34:11   But I know we've talked about this before.

00:34:14   Why sell it direct and just get money from people when you can instead get more money

00:34:19   from a streaming service that's desperate to use it as a cudgel to beat people with

00:34:24   to force them to subscribe.

00:34:26   So basically as a consumer, the idea is they will overpay for this service in order to

00:34:30   use it as a customer acquisition tool.

00:34:33   So Apple being involved in it doesn't surprise me one bit.

00:34:37   I think anybody who is serious about streaming in the US, about live streaming in the US,

00:34:43   I guess I should say, has to view this as a super important possible product because

00:34:48   it will, I mean, the NFL is the number one entertainment product in the US essentially.

00:34:54   And this is giving you access to the entire NFL via streaming.

00:34:58   It's a big deal.

00:34:59   And in fact, if you're a sports fan and a cord cutter, presumably this package might

00:35:02   even give you everything and you wouldn't even need the rest of it.

00:35:06   I'm unclear on what the local blackout rules are.

00:35:08   So it's a big deal.

00:35:10   And we've talked about it here before.

00:35:12   Sports is a huge, because it's live, it's a huge originally tool to be used by cable

00:35:17   companies to keep people from cutting the cord.

00:35:20   And now we're starting to see it switch, which it's also a tool for streamers to get

00:35:25   people to land on their streaming service.

00:35:31   If Apple were to get this, do you think they would, how would, would you think they would

00:35:36   obviously charge for it?

00:35:37   Would it be included in the deal?

00:35:39   Well, that's a good question.

00:35:41   Like would they make this like an Apple TV channel or an add on?

00:35:43   We haven't seen a, an add on for Apple TV plus yet.

00:35:48   Right.

00:35:49   So this could be something like that.

00:35:51   Right.

00:35:52   I would, I, I would have a hard time.

00:35:55   I mean, Apple has all the money.

00:35:56   They could do it however they want.

00:35:57   They could make it a pure acquisition thing.

00:35:59   It feels more like they would do a, uh, like the Disney plus premier access thing where

00:36:04   there'd be like Apple TV subscribers and you have to pay a price to get it for the, uh,

00:36:11   for the year.

00:36:12   Cause I was looking at it cause I don't really, and it's like $75 a month at the moment to

00:36:17   buy the NFL Sunday ticket thing on its own.

00:36:19   I think if I look correctly.

00:36:21   I, yeah, I mean it's, it's only for during the football season.

00:36:24   My memory is that it's, it's like a few hundred dollars to get it.

00:36:28   Yeah.

00:36:29   Okay.

00:36:30   And you have to get a satellite dish cause it's only on the satellite, right?

00:36:32   Like it's, it's serious, right?

00:36:34   I actually think this is also exciting because it's going to provide this service to more

00:36:39   people than are currently able to even get this service because it's been locked to this

00:36:45   one distribution mechanism.

00:36:47   There's some, there's some shady ways that, oh, they're not shady.

00:36:50   There's some ways that you can qualify to not get it on DirecTV, but it has to be like,

00:36:54   literally I'm unable to receive a satellite signal and then they can sell you a streaming

00:36:58   version of it.

00:36:59   It's not from DirecTV.

00:37:01   Like it's, it's a whole thing.

00:37:03   So this is a big deal for Apple or any other streamer if they, if they want this.

00:37:10   And I think the end result is going to be somebody is going to overpay because they're

00:37:14   going to want to use it for customer acquisition, like I said.

00:37:18   Number 10 shot.

00:37:19   Right, right.

00:37:20   It's that idea of like, it's not worth it.

00:37:21   It's not worth it to pay beyond this.

00:37:24   If it only was just worth it as an entertainment product, I think the NFL would just sell it

00:37:30   themselves and keep all the money, but they can get more money from someone else who wants,

00:37:36   who adds that value in of acquiring.

00:37:38   And it could be Peacock.

00:37:39   It could be like they're, they had existing deals with most of the broadcasters like ESPN,

00:37:44   NBC, CBS.

00:37:46   So it could be a Paramount Plus thing.

00:37:47   It could be a Peacock thing.

00:37:48   It could be an HBO max thing.

00:37:50   I mean, it could be anywhere ESPN plus.

00:37:55   But Apple has been, obviously Apple is intrigued by the idea of sports and by the idea of,

00:38:03   of live events, not live TV and the sort of cable over the top cable replacement service

00:38:09   sort of thing as much as in the, what if there was a live event thing and they haven't really

00:38:14   broken that seal yet, but I think maybe there are strategy people at Apple who think they're

00:38:21   going to need to do this because this is going to be an important strategic move to get people

00:38:29   to subscribe to your service.

00:38:31   Apple has done some new ideals with some large creators.

00:38:34   I couldn't think of a better word than creators, but I think it works.

00:38:38   Okay.

00:38:39   Adam McKay has done a multi-year first look for feature films.

00:38:43   McKay is recently most famous for movies like the big short and vice and is an Oscar winner.

00:38:50   McKay is interesting because McKay had a long term relationship with Will Ferrell and basically

00:38:55   made all comedy movies for a long time and great ones and then started making really

00:39:00   good and serious movies.

00:39:01   So he's an interesting figure and has set up a production company of his own recently,

00:39:07   which is where some of these newer movies came from.

00:39:10   And this, there is now a multi-year first look with Adam McKay is quite intriguing to

00:39:15   me.

00:39:16   Yeah.

00:39:17   I'm unclear whether all of his work is from his company or not.

00:39:22   Cause this is technically a first look deal with his production company, but I would assume

00:39:28   that other than whatever existing deals he's got, that the goal here is to, is to have

00:39:33   his work come from this company.

00:39:34   But first look is a big deal, right? because that's basically saying, if Apple wants it,

00:39:40   you can buy it.

00:39:41   Now I'm unclear what I don't see here in the, in the story about this is what that first

00:39:46   look means in terms of theatrical release, because sometimes there's first look that

00:39:52   means that Apple can buy it, but that part of the deal will be, you still need to screen

00:39:56   it in a theater.

00:39:58   And then it will go on Apple TV.

00:40:00   And I don't know that because right, because that's a different thing is, is this, does

00:40:03   this go direct to streaming or does it go to a theater and then go to streaming?

00:40:07   I don't know that part, but it's another example of Apple getting in business with somebody

00:40:11   who they consider, you know, a talented content creator.

00:40:14   And this is Apple playing the HBO game to a certain degree, which they are absolutely

00:40:19   playing.

00:40:20   The classic HBO, like we said last week, when I was pre-taped being the old HBO and being

00:40:27   seen as paying a lot, having money and paying for quality and wanting to create kind of

00:40:33   a quality selection of content, not do too much, but have it all be of a certain level

00:40:37   of quality.

00:40:39   One of the ways you play that game is by tying in creators who you like and you think do

00:40:46   good work.

00:40:48   Also including Misha Green, who is also signed a multi-year overall deal for TV projects.

00:40:54   Green is the creator of Lovecraft Country on HBO.

00:40:57   Yeah.

00:40:58   So she, this is interesting too, because her show on HBO just got canceled and nominated

00:41:04   for a bunch of Emmys, which is so painful.

00:41:08   She's been tweeting out like her, her story outline or like the headings of her story

00:41:13   outline for season two of Lovecraft Country.

00:41:14   And Lovecraft Country is, it was a really good show and it's now been nominated for

00:41:19   all these awards and HBO canceled it the week before it got nominated for those awards.

00:41:23   I'm starting to wonder if the reason they canceled it when they did is so that they

00:41:26   didn't have to cancel it after it got nominated for all of the Emmy awards.

00:41:31   But this is, this is like quite literally Apple kind of coming in and saying, we know

00:41:35   that HBO didn't take care of you, but we will take care of you.

00:41:39   Interesting.

00:41:40   And it's Ted Lasso season baby.

00:41:43   This Friday season two begins and the Ted Lasso marketing machine is at 100% top gear

00:41:52   full throttle right now.

00:41:55   Season two reviews are out.

00:41:56   I haven't read any of them because I don't feel the requirement to do it.

00:42:01   But at the moment it is a 100% on Rotten Tomatoes with 24 critics reviews.

00:42:07   So yeah, the reviews are positive and say that it sort of picks up where it left off.

00:42:12   For those people who are worried that its initial success might have an effect on it,

00:42:16   my understanding is that they wrote the whole season before there was any reaction to the

00:42:20   first season, the whole second season.

00:42:21   So the whole second season was conceived before they even knew that people loved Ted Lasso.

00:42:26   They were already on it.

00:42:28   Obviously they shot it afterward, but they were already writing it and conceiving it

00:42:32   beforehand.

00:42:34   So this is great.

00:42:35   By the way, a note for people who are excited about Ted Lasso, Apple is dropping the episodes

00:42:39   one at a time.

00:42:40   They're not doing their dropping three for the premiere and all that.

00:42:43   They've already got a whole season of Ted Lasso in the can for people to watch.

00:42:47   So they're going to drop them one at a time.

00:42:48   And I think there are 12 episodes this season.

00:42:50   It's an expanded episode order.

00:42:52   It's not 10 like last year.

00:42:53   So it'll be weekly for, I guess, 12 weeks as it rolls out.

00:42:58   So you only get one episode at a time, folks.

00:43:01   Now because of the way that TV and awards work, it's kind of strange because now is

00:43:08   when a lot of the awards season is occurring for stuff that happened previously.

00:43:14   So season one of Ted Lasso is now receiving all of its award nominations.

00:43:19   It picked up 20 of Apple's 35 Emmy nominations.

00:43:24   So Apple TV+ got 35 Emmy nominations across its whole slate, including Mythic Quest, For

00:43:29   Mankind and others.

00:43:30   But 20 of those went to Ted Lasso.

00:43:34   This makes Ted Lasso the most nominated first season of a comedy show in history, being

00:43:39   Glee, who was the previous holder of that title.

00:43:44   Ted Lasso is also leading nominations in both the Hollywood Critics Association Awards and

00:43:49   the Television Critics Association Awards.

00:43:52   And again, the TCA also gave love for For Mankind and Mythic Quest.

00:43:57   Disney's got a bunch.

00:43:58   You know, it's obviously a big story, but Ted Lasso is leading the way in everything

00:44:04   right now.

00:44:05   I mean, if we pull back for the bigger picture, it's kind of funny too that the Emmy nominations,

00:44:10   which there was this whole story like, "Oh, look, Cable is on the Emmys now."

00:44:15   And then it was, "Oh, some streaming is on the Emmys now."

00:44:18   And I think there's one network TV show nominated in the drama category and in the comedy category,

00:44:24   and everything else is on streaming.

00:44:26   And it really is like, it's Netflix and Amazon and Disney+ and Apple TV+ and HBO Max.

00:44:35   It's really just sort of reflecting what reality is, which is that it's all completely flipped

00:44:39   over now.

00:44:40   But the idea that Apple, of all companies, has like some Emmy favorites at this point

00:44:48   is hilarious.

00:44:49   But I think that Ted Lasso is a favorite for a lot of these awards.

00:44:54   I think that's, Apple's going to get some real hardware.

00:44:57   Remember when you and I would be like, "Oh, Apple just wants to get that Oscar."

00:45:00   Well, okay.

00:45:01   And they want to get those Emmys.

00:45:02   It's like, all right, well, it's going to happen now.

00:45:05   This is, this is, yeah.

00:45:06   I think Ted Lasso is cleaning up at the Emmys.

00:45:09   I think so.

00:45:10   I think it's going to do really, really well at the Emmys.

00:45:12   Like probably at least 10.

00:45:15   Like they're going to win a lot of Emmys, which is great.

00:45:19   There was like, on all of this awards hype is just perfect timing for them because this

00:45:24   is all happening.

00:45:25   Like if you don't, like if you hadn't heard of Ted Lasso, wasn't sure of it, now it's

00:45:30   like, "Oh, like this is really heavily awarded, like all nominated."

00:45:33   And it's just the season two is getting ready to begin.

00:45:36   There have also been some really great stories this week about how Jason Sudeikis basically

00:45:41   just seems to be a lot like Ted Lasso, which is again, just like only warming people to

00:45:46   the idea.

00:45:47   There's a really amazing article that I don't want to spoil by Myke Ryan over at Uproxx,

00:45:52   which is just really touching and really beautiful that I put in the show notes that people should

00:45:56   read.

00:45:57   Yeah.

00:45:58   Jason Sudeikis, it's funny too, because he played, he's played a lot of jerks.

00:46:01   Like he's the strapping, broad shouldered white guy, jerk role in lots and lots of things.

00:46:09   Handsome, charming, like kind of, yeah.

00:46:12   He must be a jerk, right?

00:46:14   And so Ted Lasso, yes, it seems like it's much more, he is a much more kind of thoughtful,

00:46:19   sensitive guy and that Ted Lasso is channeling a lot of that.

00:46:22   What I found funny, I'm not sure if it was in that Uproxx article or in a different article,

00:46:26   but somebody, several people have asked him like, "Are you Ted Lasso?"

00:46:30   And he, his usual response is, "Well, I'd like to be, I feel like the best parts of

00:46:35   me are Ted Lasso."

00:46:37   But there's one interview with Sudeikis that revealed that he would use that line and then

00:46:43   his friends would receive, would see it and respond.

00:46:47   And they would say, "No, that's not right.

00:46:51   You are Ted Lasso."

00:46:53   So like the people who know Jason Sudeikis are like, "You're not giving yourself enough

00:46:56   credit as being a good person."

00:47:00   So that's also kind of fun to hear.

00:47:02   And then he went again, like he did on the, like, so they had a premiere for the show,

00:47:07   which Tim Cook attended, which is really interesting to me.

00:47:10   Oh yeah, he's got his arms around Jason Sudeikis.

00:47:12   I think he only attended the premiere for the morning show.

00:47:16   I think they didn't really have a lot of premieres, but I know he attended the morning show premiere

00:47:21   and I could not find any, I was looking around for this today.

00:47:24   I couldn't find any other premieres that he seemed to have attended.

00:47:28   Of course he attended the Ted Lasso.

00:47:29   I don't even think they had a premiere for the first season of Ted Lasso.

00:47:33   But at this, Sudeikis is wearing a shirt, which is in support of some English footballers

00:47:39   who have received racial abuse after the European Cup final, the Championship final.

00:47:44   And so I, it's just again, it's like, "Oh look, he's Ted Lasso."

00:47:48   Because he's just a genuinely good seeming person.

00:47:52   Yeah, it's nice.

00:47:54   Yeah, really great.

00:47:55   And the show was great.

00:47:56   And I think, yes, I think there's some truth in that, that the show being what it is, it

00:48:01   is among all the other things that are great about it, it feels very authentic.

00:48:05   I don't think people who were faking it could make that show.

00:48:09   So I love it.

00:48:10   Looking forward to it.

00:48:11   Friday or if you want to stay up late, midnight Pacific on Thursday, you can tune that in.

00:48:18   You know, we watched the Loki finale on Tuesday night when we were in Hawaii because those

00:48:26   episodes drop at midnight Pacific.

00:48:28   And so at 9 p.m. on Tuesday, ha, why people again, I'll just say it, hey, streaming services,

00:48:36   you really should drop your shows at 8 p.m. Eastern time.

00:48:39   That's when you should do it.

00:48:40   Come on, come on, do it then.

00:48:43   Or just do it so late that it has to be the next day.

00:48:46   Right?

00:48:47   Like that, you know, anyway, I also want to give a recommendation for Schmigadoon, which

00:48:53   is a new Apple TV Plus show that may have gone under the radar because the name is so

00:48:59   complicated to think about, say, or like this is the musical.

00:49:04   It is a musical based show.

00:49:07   It is really weird and kind of cute and funny.

00:49:12   So I thought it was a movie and it turns out it's a TV show.

00:49:16   So that's one thing.

00:49:17   I had that exact thing too.

00:49:19   I originally thought it was a movie.

00:49:20   I had no idea.

00:49:21   Because it looks like a movie.

00:49:22   The problem I have with the name is it's like, so it's like Brigadoon.

00:49:25   And I saw the trailer and again, like I thought the trailer looked interesting, although I

00:49:29   did think it was a movie, but calling it Schmigadoon, I feel like it's like too much.

00:49:33   I think it's a bad name because it, it, it, first off, I think it's a hacky joke.

00:49:39   And second, if you're really kind of playing a loving tribute to this, to name the location

00:49:46   of your show and name your show after this sort of really dumb Brigadoon reference is,

00:49:52   I don't know, I think it was a creative mistake, but having good things about the show, I will

00:49:59   give it a try.

00:50:00   It's, it's charming and funny and weird.

00:50:04   And the cost is superb, right?

00:50:07   Like the people that they've gotten.

00:50:10   But I also, I, something about me that kind of likes when a TV show does something musical

00:50:16   and then just hires a bunch of people that were clearly in musicals.

00:50:19   Like I just kind of like that.

00:50:20   There's just something about it.

00:50:22   It feels very authentic to being a musical.

00:50:25   Like the way that people move and talk, it feels like it's a musical.

00:50:28   But what's funny is the main characters, they are not in the musical.

00:50:33   So I recommend it.

00:50:35   It's really good.

00:50:36   It's really, really good.

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00:52:29   So considering we took our week off, I want to do a bit of catch up time.

00:52:33   A lot of little stories to touch on.

00:52:35   It's a weird time of year as well.

00:52:38   So Beta 3 of iOS, iPadOS and macOS Monterey came out and the biggest changes is the Safari

00:52:47   stuff.

00:52:48   So a bunch of tweaks on iOS, but the most notable changes have been on the Mac.

00:52:53   So on the iPhone, the address bar, the little floating address bar now stays pinned to the

00:52:58   bottom.

00:52:59   It lives above the keyboard when you bring the keyboard up rather than flying to the

00:53:02   top of the screen like it did before, which is kind of wild.

00:53:05   And they've made some other little tweaks and stuff to iOS, but the Mac has seen the

00:53:10   biggest changes.

00:53:11   Have you been playing?

00:53:12   Have you had time to check out the new Safari at all yet?

00:53:17   Only on iPad where it hasn't changed because that's the only beta I had with me and so

00:53:22   no I haven't looked at the others.

00:53:23   The iPad had some tweaks, but not a lot.

00:53:25   Like they changed some of the spacing and they put a share icon back in the kind of

00:53:30   top toolbar, which is good.

00:53:31   Yeah.

00:53:32   On Friday when I was very jet lagged, I did update my beta Mac to the new beta and took

00:53:38   a brief look at Safari enough to say that while it's nice that they brought back the

00:53:45   address bar and all that, I actually think it's worse in some ways than the previous

00:53:51   beta because the tabs are completely disconnected from the content to the point where I can't

00:53:58   tell which tab is active when I'm using it.

00:54:02   I think it's still really bad.

00:54:03   The good news is that it is a work in progress and it's like the PR cycle for this is they

00:54:11   announce it and they announce it with pride.

00:54:14   And then behind the scenes, I think some of us who have been paying attention could tell

00:54:20   that like even the PR folks and even the product manager folks, when they talked about it after

00:54:27   the announcement, were not fully behind it.

00:54:29   I just got a sense that maybe there was a little bit of uncertainty there.

00:54:36   Hard to quantify that, but that was the sense I got.

00:54:39   And now we have, there was a John Gruber post last week where he basically said, "Talking

00:54:43   to folks at Apple, there are more changes to Safari coming."

00:54:46   So we've entered the second phase of this, which is essentially damage control.

00:54:51   It's basically saying, "I know that the initial Safari thing was really dramatic, but we know

00:54:56   that it's a problem and we're fixing it."

00:54:59   And I would ask, "Why did this not all happen before you announced it?

00:55:03   Why did you have to announce it and then have everybody yell about it and now you're going

00:55:07   to spend the summer trying to fix it?"

00:55:09   But it's encouraging in the sense that what Gruber is reporting is, according to people

00:55:15   inside Apple, this is not the end product.

00:55:18   This is, they are now, and it's very clear, right?

00:55:20   Like they had time to do something on the Mac and nothing on the iPad essentially with

00:55:25   this interface.

00:55:26   So I think we're going to be spending the next couple of months watching Safari kind

00:55:31   of drift from beta to beta and hopefully land somewhere decent.

00:55:36   - There's something I think about with this stuff is like, we'll get Safari, it will come

00:55:43   out and it will be probably changed in some way, but much closer to what we had before

00:55:49   than them, at least on the Mac and on iPadOS.

00:55:53   I think it's going to look really different on the iPhone still, but they're just going

00:55:56   to tweak it and make it a better experience.

00:55:57   But it's always so, I find it interesting to think like that WWDC keynote, it's like

00:56:04   wrong now, right?

00:56:06   Like they should, it's like, "Here's Safari and here's all the stuff it does."

00:56:10   But then by the time we get Safari at the end of it, you go back and watch it, that's

00:56:14   not the same thing anymore.

00:56:15   And I find that just like, it doesn't mean anything, but it's like an interesting thought

00:56:19   to me of like, you know, just in these three months, it goes from like, we had this, we've

00:56:23   been working on this and we have this great idea and it comes out and it just, it changes.

00:56:29   So I've had this conversation a couple of times on podcasts the last couple of months

00:56:34   where there's an argument to be made that one of the reasons that Apple sticks with

00:56:38   features in the beta, even though that they're, even though they're controversial is because

00:56:46   Apple believes in them.

00:56:48   And sometimes the argument is that there's a precedent that is set, like you announced

00:56:53   it at WWDC so that there's some sort of weight there on Apple to release what they announced

00:57:00   at WWDC, the way they did it.

00:57:03   I don't agree with that.

00:57:04   As somebody who's been writing about in this beta cycle since they started doing it, where

00:57:10   they announce a beta in June and then they roll it out in September or October, I can

00:57:15   tell you that beta amnesia is real, that nobody except the super wired in technology nerds

00:57:28   even remembers other than the most vague sort of announcements, if that from WWDC, the truth

00:57:36   is we can write about it all we like and talk about it all we like in June and July and

00:57:42   August, but most people are not paying attention until it shows up on their device or they're

00:57:46   prompted to install it on their device in the fall.

00:57:50   And so I think Apple, if having to choose between, oh, this is going to be a PR disaster

00:57:58   and people hate it.

00:58:00   And yes, but the precedent of WWDC, they're always going to go with a damage control and

00:58:06   getting a better product that people like better in the fall.

00:58:09   And so I think it is a weird historical document.

00:58:14   It will be not what they ship, but I think the truth is almost nobody cares about what

00:58:19   they announced other than us.

00:58:21   And by the fall, we won't even care that much.

00:58:23   So that's my argument is that I know that they put a lot into that and it's a little

00:58:28   bit baffling that they immediately were like, oh yeah, that was a bad idea.

00:58:31   Like, well, then why did you put it in the keynote?

00:58:34   But the keynote, it drifting away from what the keynote shows, Apple's going to be fine

00:58:39   with that because they just like, really it's like whistling past the graveyard.

00:58:44   It's like, nope, nope, nope.

00:58:45   Safari was always like this.

00:58:47   What are you talking about?

00:58:48   And they're just not going to even like WWDC is forgotten, right?

00:58:51   That's why they restate OS features in the fall.

00:58:53   And those of us who follow this stuff are like, yeah, yeah, yada, yada, yada, because

00:58:57   we've heard it all before and it's like a rerun.

00:59:00   But the reason they do it is they know nobody else was paying attention.

00:59:03   And if they were paying attention, they didn't remember.

00:59:05   So you know, but when it's on a new iPhone or a new Mac, then it's a big deal for them.

00:59:13   MagSafe battery pack has appeared into existence.

00:59:17   It is $99.

00:59:19   It is just a little battery brick that you stick to the back of your phone with MagSafe

00:59:24   and it will wirelessly charge for you.

00:59:26   There is Apple recommends a 20 watt charger for the best performance, but this is of course

00:59:31   sold separately, but any charger will recharge the battery pack in your phone if you have

00:59:36   them together, but it will just take a bit longer to do it.

00:59:40   It appears to have a slightly smaller or not so slightly smaller battery than the previous

00:59:45   cases that Apple made, like the battery charging cases.

00:59:50   And somebody has been posting images on Reddit, I think, that they picked one up from in Memphis.

00:59:56   So I don't know if Steven is involved, probably not, but who knows?

00:59:59   It is a person called Steven, so I don't know, maybe it's actually Steven Hackett.

01:00:04   Of this one, and I'll be honest, I think it looks super ugly, like it looks really weird,

01:00:09   but it kind of, what does it matter how it looks?

01:00:11   It's just a little battery that sticks on the back of your phone.

01:00:15   I think it doesn't help that this person had a Max, they had a 12 Max, which I think it

01:00:21   looks super weird on that.

01:00:22   You'll notice in Apple's marketing materials, they do not show what this thing looks like

01:00:27   on the largest phone.

01:00:28   It's just on two smaller phones.

01:00:30   I think that might be for a good reason.

01:00:33   So yeah, they've updated the marketing materials, actually.

01:00:37   There is one on the Max phone now, but it doesn't look as bad as the images that I've

01:00:40   put a link to in the show notes.

01:00:42   What do you think about this product?

01:00:45   It's not for me, and that's kind of the end of that.

01:00:49   Yeah, okay, so I'm going to go with you here and just say, it's also not for me.

01:00:57   I have heard from people who are very excited about it, who talk about the ease of not having

01:01:03   to have a cord or anything, and you just attach it and it almost fills your battery.

01:01:13   If what you want is a super clean and simple, this is a blob, it magnetically adheres to

01:01:19   the back of my phone, and then it gives it more power, and I don't have to carry around

01:01:24   a different blob with a cable in order to do that, and that's worth it to me, then I

01:01:30   can't stop you from buying this product.

01:01:34   However, I think this is a terrible product, and I'll tell you why.

01:01:41   It's not that big a battery.

01:01:44   Inductive charging is super inefficient, which means that it's going to lose a bunch of what's

01:01:49   in the battery and not transfer it properly to the phone.

01:01:52   If you look at how much it will refill a phone, it's really not very good.

01:01:58   It won't refill your phone from nothing.

01:02:00   It'll get it up some, but it won't refill it.

01:02:04   The stat-sized source suggested only the Mini could get a full recharge.

01:02:08   Yeah, and I'm just going to top it off by saying, if you've got a big, heavy battery

01:02:13   blob in your pocket, is it really that much more work to also have a little cable and

01:02:20   have an efficient data transfer?

01:02:24   And the answer, again, if the answer is yes, I just don't want that.

01:02:28   I want this.

01:02:29   It's super clean and simple.

01:02:30   I get it.

01:02:31   That's why Apple makes it.

01:02:32   That's why they sell it, and you should get it.

01:02:35   But I would say, for most people, if you want a battery to carry with your iPhone, there

01:02:42   are better options that are going to charge it more and charge it more efficiently and

01:02:49   cost less.

01:02:50   So that's what I think about the MagSafe battery pack.

01:02:54   I'm glad for the people who are excited about it, and they know who they are, but I would

01:03:00   not buy one of these.

01:03:03   If somebody gave me one, I guess I might use it, but I would never buy one.

01:03:08   It seems like a really bad value to me.

01:03:12   Yeah, I agree.

01:03:13   If you're the type of person that wants it, you know you want it, and this is probably

01:03:17   everything you wanted, but I agree with you.

01:03:19   I think it's expensive.

01:03:20   I think it's wild that the charger that's best for it, you don't get it with it for

01:03:23   $100.

01:03:24   I don't think it looks that great.

01:03:26   I think it's super thick, and the battery's small, and it won't charge my...

01:03:29   If I'm going to buy any of these products, I want to get at least one full recharge of

01:03:34   my phone out of it.

01:03:35   Otherwise, I would look elsewhere.

01:03:36   And plus, look, I'm not a MagSafe charging person anyway.

01:03:41   I am a PopSocket user.

01:03:42   I use the regular PopSocket and the magnetic PopSocket.

01:03:46   I am a MagSafe charging person.

01:03:49   And in fact, my iPhone has not been plugged in more than it was plugged in when I was

01:03:55   on vacation, because I didn't bring a MagSafe charger with me on vacation.

01:03:59   And I came back to the MagSafe charger, and I'm like, "Oh, MagSafe charger."

01:04:02   I like it.

01:04:03   I like it.

01:04:04   But yeah, the truth is that this is...

01:04:06   We're getting reaction to this in our chat room right now too.

01:04:10   This is it.

01:04:11   The reason you buy this is because you don't care that it's inefficient, and you don't

01:04:16   care that it's thick.

01:04:18   The point is it snaps on magnetically, and it puts more juice in your phone, and then

01:04:24   you can take it back off.

01:04:26   And you just want to keep it as simple as possible.

01:04:29   And it is as simple as possible.

01:04:31   You pay for that in numerous ways.

01:04:33   But if that's your top priority, is just, "I want it as simple as possible," this is

01:04:38   the product for you.

01:04:40   And that's why I'm not saying don't buy it.

01:04:42   I'm just saying that if you're somebody who wants to save money and get a better product,

01:04:48   there's literally...

01:04:49   You can spend less money and get something better, a lot better than this thing.

01:04:53   So that's your trade-off.

01:04:54   And just be aware of it.

01:04:57   If I might read about this product at all, it's because I think a bunch of people are

01:05:00   going to buy this who are just wandering into an Apple store, and it'd be like, "Oh, this

01:05:05   looks really great," and assume that it's better than it actually is when there are

01:05:10   much better options.

01:05:11   But that's life.

01:05:12   That happens all the time, that people buy things that are more expensive and not as

01:05:15   good because they're in front of them or because they've got the right brand name on them.

01:05:19   So I wanted to let it out there, that it's great that this product exists.

01:05:24   I wouldn't buy it in a million years.

01:05:27   This isn't saying that if you want it, that it's bad or you shouldn't get it.

01:05:30   It's just different.

01:05:31   No, go ahead and...

01:05:32   Well, I'm going to reference back to last week's show.

01:05:34   One of the things I loved about last week's show is that you and Merlin talking about

01:05:38   what we had said the previous week, which is like, "Look, if it makes you happy, right?

01:05:42   Like if putting a beta on your phone makes you happy, go ahead and do it.

01:05:45   Life's too short.

01:05:47   Put it on your phone.

01:05:48   If this product is the one that delights you, buy it."

01:05:52   But I do want to put out a note of caution there, which is there's actually a lot of

01:05:55   asterisks attached to this product.

01:05:58   And if you're somebody who would rather get a better deal and is willing to trade some

01:06:01   of the simplicity for more battery power and less money, there are better options than

01:06:07   this.

01:06:08   I've got some reports from Bloomberg.

01:06:11   Debbie Wu is reporting an LTPO display will be featured on at least one iPhone 12.

01:06:17   This type of display is similar technology that was used in the Apple Watch.

01:06:20   So it's a model for variable and therefore higher refresh rate displays as well, looking

01:06:25   at promotion.

01:06:26   We talked about this.

01:06:27   I feel like we speculated about this on the opposite side for the Apple Watch.

01:06:31   And it's the idea that the Apple Watch has an OLED display that allows this refresh rate

01:06:37   to be variable, which on the Apple Watch, what they want is they want to crank it way

01:06:41   down.

01:06:42   Right?

01:06:43   Like they want to save, when they're not animating something on the screen, they want to crank

01:06:46   the frame rate way down and save energy.

01:06:49   And this is saying now that Apple, and this is Apple invented technology, which is interesting,

01:06:54   Apple patented technology.

01:06:56   So other device makers are creating like-

01:06:59   I did not know that.

01:07:01   LTPO-like technology, but I believe LTPO itself came from Apple.

01:07:07   But in the end, this technology will be everywhere anyway.

01:07:10   There are other LTPO phones and stuff, but my understanding is that Apple's the one that

01:07:13   kind of like has a bunch of the patents and that there are like alternate versions of

01:07:18   it that don't use Apple's patents.

01:07:20   But it's a clever idea.

01:07:21   I think it originated because of the Apple Watch.

01:07:24   But regardless of all that, the idea here is how do we do a promotion OLED display on

01:07:28   an iPhone?

01:07:29   And the answer is you use this technology to do that.

01:07:32   The next iPhones as well will feature camera improvements to the whole line and a smaller

01:07:37   notch, which is I think all stuff that we were assuming.

01:07:41   Makes it seem a lot less like a minor update cycle, huh?

01:07:45   Yeah, I've seen people saying that this seems minor, but I think they're not understanding

01:07:50   it's I think the difference that this high refresh rate display could fill an iPhone.

01:07:54   Is this not the usual iPhone story too, which is that there's definitely a group of people

01:07:58   who think that the only way that the iPhone has a major update is when it looks different.

01:08:03   And those people exist and then those consumers exist, right?

01:08:07   Where it's like, what I care is that it looks different.

01:08:09   And then there's the truth of it, which is Apple often changes the exterior design on

01:08:14   a year where the interior isn't, I mean, the, the specs aren't as radically different.

01:08:20   And then the next year the phone looks exactly the same, but it's actually quite different

01:08:23   in terms of what it's doing.

01:08:26   And some people are like, oh man, but this is so much different.

01:08:29   And other people are like, eh, it's the same as last year, whatever.

01:08:32   And it's just, we're all looking for different things in our phones.

01:08:35   But this sounds like this is not a, you know, 12s boring update kind of thing.

01:08:40   If they're putting in promotion and improving cameras across the line and reducing the size

01:08:44   of the notch, like that's a lot of stuff going on in the iPhone.

01:08:49   Mark Gurman says that this display technology in the iPhone could actually result in the

01:08:54   first always on display in an iPhone as well, which is really intriguing.

01:08:57   Right, it goes back to the Apple watch, right?

01:08:59   You know, what you want to do is keep it on, but, but basically knock off the, the, the

01:09:03   refresh rate because you just want to keep some, some static images on and maybe you

01:09:08   update it every second, but you know, you're not doing a 30 or 60 times a second and you

01:09:14   save a lot of power that way.

01:09:16   So if they can bring the always on watch technology to the iPhone, sounds great to me.

01:09:22   I, I've been hoping that they would do that since they went to OLED.

01:09:25   Mark Gurman also suggests that the mini LED screen MacBook Pro refresh will be coming

01:09:32   sometime between September to November.

01:09:34   So we're just getting further reports about this thing now, which I think continues to

01:09:39   lend to its certainty around that period.

01:09:42   And I think this is, this is Mark Gurman's newsletter again.

01:09:45   So thank you to Mark Gurman for putting his newsletter out over the weekend so that we

01:09:48   get to be the first podcast up to talk about all of his reports.

01:09:52   Love it.

01:09:53   Thank you, Mark.

01:09:54   Friend of the show.

01:09:55   Um, and, uh, the detail I gleaned from this also is that the mini LED screen has been

01:10:01   kind of targeted as the holdup.

01:10:03   Yes.

01:10:04   That, that this is an ambitious set of laptops that are using the same mini LED, uh, technology

01:10:09   that we saw in the 12.9 inch iPad Pro M1 iPad Pro, um, which was, uh, which looks great.

01:10:18   It's an amazing screen.

01:10:19   You try to imagine on the Mac and you're like, wow, that'll look great.

01:10:22   And I'm sure it will, but it's also led to some production challenges.

01:10:29   So it may not be as much about the legacy nodes after all.

01:10:32   And it's about the ambition of that display, uh, that's led it to be kind of a slipped

01:10:37   it slipping to the fall, but you know, a fall MacBook Pro announcement is not, um, outside

01:10:43   of the rumors that it would come sooner.

01:10:44   It's actually like the right time for that kind of announcement, right?

01:10:48   It's not surprising at all that you might get some fancy new MacBook Pros in the fall

01:10:52   that that happens a lot.

01:10:53   It seems to me, Ming Chi Kuo is reporting that we will see mini led come to the 11 inch

01:10:59   iPad Pro next year, which I don't know if I would have expected quotes because it quote

01:11:05   seems to suggest that there will be new iPad Pros next year.

01:11:09   Like there will be a refresh of 12.9, um, at the same time, which is, so here's the

01:11:15   thing, if there's going to be an M2 and we're going to see it across the Mac line and they're

01:11:24   going to rev, this is the question, right?

01:11:25   It's the chip question to me.

01:11:27   If they're going to do an M2 and then these macro pros are probably M1X, right?

01:11:32   They're there.

01:11:33   The M1 technology scaled up with more cores, uh, whatever they call it.

01:11:36   We'll, we'll call it M1X for now.

01:11:38   We'll see what they call it.

01:11:39   If there's an M2, which is just next generation, it's based on the next chip generation, it's

01:11:43   going to power the next generation of MacBook Airs and all of that.

01:11:45   And other low end systems, they'll be faster than the M1, but they're not the high end

01:11:49   ones.

01:11:50   This is like the lower end chip next generation.

01:11:52   If they do that, and there is a rumor that we'll get to in a second about an M2 MacBook

01:11:57   Air coming in 2022.

01:11:58   If they, if they're taking the new chip architecture that rolls out in the fall with the iPhone

01:12:03   and doing the more cores version of that for the low end Macs and the iPad Pros.

01:12:09   Well, if you've got an M2, why would you not, even if you don't add a whole lot else to

01:12:14   the iPad Pro, if you're making the M2 anyway, why would you not put the M2 in the iPad Pro

01:12:20   at some point during the annual processor cycle?

01:12:23   So it may be that we see updates to the MacBook Air and the iPad Pro and some other products

01:12:30   that are using that base chip.

01:12:32   Now that they're all on the same chip, it may just be in Apple's best interest to move

01:12:38   them all to the new chip every year.

01:12:40   No wonder.

01:12:42   So on that chip, there's been more reports.

01:12:45   This one comes from, I got this from 9to5Mac.

01:12:49   They're reporting that a leaker known as Dylan DKT suggests that Apple will release a new

01:12:54   MacBook Air in various colorways of an M2 chip in the first half of 2022.

01:12:59   This is, you know, similarly with this, this kind of reporting is coming from a lot of

01:13:03   areas.

01:13:04   But it's just one of the many reports that makes this suggestion.

01:13:08   And it makes a lot of sense, right?

01:13:10   That like there is the M number, right?

01:13:13   It's kind of, it's the iPhone model, right?

01:13:14   That there's the lowest chip is the one with just the letter and the number, and then they

01:13:19   add another letter on the end, and then that's more powerful and goes into the other, like

01:13:23   to iPads and stuff like that.

01:13:25   This is how they've done it before.

01:13:27   Yeah.

01:13:28   And this, so same thing, right?

01:13:29   The, um, what we don't know, right?

01:13:32   Okay.

01:13:33   Apple Silicon, there's the M1.

01:13:34   That's literally it.

01:13:35   That's literally it.

01:13:36   We have rumors, but all we have is one single chip.

01:13:41   So what we don't know about Apple Silicon going forward is where to from here.

01:13:47   And some of that is what does a more powerful Apple chip on a Mac look like?

01:13:52   Is that M1X?

01:13:53   What does it look like?

01:13:54   We don't know.

01:13:55   We got some ideas.

01:13:56   There are rumors.

01:13:57   Great.

01:13:58   We don't know for sure.

01:13:59   What is, uh, you know, and what's the path for things like the Mac Pro.

01:14:03   All of that is a question.

01:14:04   The other big question is what is the cycle?

01:14:07   What is the cadence of releases for this stuff?

01:14:12   And what does that do to Apple's product releases?

01:14:14   Because remember with Intel, Apple couldn't control when the new generations of chips

01:14:20   came out and came out in the volumes that Apple needs in order to ship, right?

01:14:24   All that was up to Intel, but on the iPad and iPhone side, like Apple does the chips

01:14:31   for the products.

01:14:32   And when the product that needs the chip comes out, the chip is ready and chip goes in the

01:14:36   product and the product ships like Apple controls the whole thing.

01:14:39   So with M1, we've seen now M1 is in all of these different products.

01:14:44   So how often do you go up a generation?

01:14:47   How often, when will we see M2 and when will we see M3?

01:14:51   And is it going to be on a regular cycle?

01:14:53   Is it going to be every year or every 18 months or whatever, given that the iPhone chip cycle

01:14:58   is 12 months, right?

01:15:00   There's always a new iPhone every year with a new chip design.

01:15:05   I kind of feel like the M1, M2 cadence is going to be annual.

01:15:11   And if that's true, then I'm really interested to see what Apple does with product refreshes,

01:15:18   right?

01:15:19   That's the other mystery here is this rumor is about new MacBook Airs.

01:15:22   Well, we just had new MacBook Airs.

01:15:24   So, and it's not quite a year, it's a little bit later, but like we just had a new MacBook

01:15:28   Air.

01:15:29   We're going to get a new MacBook Air again.

01:15:30   We just had a new iPad Pro.

01:15:31   We're going to get a new iPad Pro again.

01:15:33   But like maybe the answer is yes.

01:15:35   And maybe us being used to these kind of long time periods between Apple product updates,

01:15:42   especially on the Intel Mac side, have gotten us sort of down on Apple's ability to refresh

01:15:48   its devices.

01:15:49   But now that Apple's making its own chips, I mean, you could argue that once that that

01:15:54   chip is out there, it actually, you need to update your systems because it's going to

01:15:59   make those old systems look bad.

01:16:01   That you know, like, wait, there's an M2.

01:16:03   Why is this still in the M1?

01:16:04   Why is this not an M2?

01:16:06   So I don't know what they're going to do.

01:16:09   But I think that's one of the things I'm most looking forward to over the next year is like

01:16:13   starting to figure out what is Apple's product release philosophy for these things.

01:16:17   If Apple could control everything, and now they can, they're not under Intel's thumb,

01:16:22   how often would they do a new MacBook Air?

01:16:26   Maybe it's every year.

01:16:27   And it's M1, M2, M3, M4, and it's just like, it's just like a new iPhone.

01:16:30   There's a new Mac.

01:16:31   There's a new everything every year with the latest year's chip in it.

01:16:36   Is that there?

01:16:37   That's ambitious, but they could do it.

01:16:39   Is that the plan?

01:16:41   We'll see.

01:16:42   But I am excited because give me those colorful MacBook Airs.

01:16:45   Looking forward to that.

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01:19:25   Let's finish up with some #AskUpgradeQuestions.

01:19:30   George would like to know, why do you think, and this is actually relating to that last

01:19:33   point that we spoke about, why do you think there are or seem to be more public Apple

01:19:38   leakers than there ever was before?

01:19:41   I don't know.

01:19:42   Apple is a big company and there have always been people within Apple who have wanted to

01:19:49   get information out because they get, I think, excited about it.

01:19:54   And we had a long discussion about this a while ago, like consider the source, where's

01:19:57   this coming from?

01:19:58   But there are definitely people who just enjoy the fact that they know things the public

01:20:04   doesn't know and like to leak that stuff out.

01:20:08   And those are the real Apple leakers.

01:20:10   Apple leakers are people who work at Apple and then leak information to the outside.

01:20:14   That's the true leak.

01:20:17   I think the difference now is that not only is Apple bigger and higher profile, but that

01:20:23   information that might've just kind of laid there, unless it was to a very particular

01:20:28   person in a position of media authority.

01:20:34   Now it's so much easier to be a person with information from a friend or a friend of a

01:20:38   friend and put it on Twitter and put it on YouTube.

01:20:44   And I think that that makes a difference is that it's just easier for it to get out.

01:20:48   There's more clout available to you too than there was before for those reasons.

01:20:53   I feel like there seems to be an increasing reason for somebody to want to be the person

01:21:00   who gives that information to the world more so than there was years ago.

01:21:04   Yeah.

01:21:05   I think that there's also the same thing that motivates somebody on the inside to leak that

01:21:09   information is the thing that motivates somebody to set up a Twitter account or whatever and

01:21:15   or a YouTube channel or whatever it is and get that information out there.

01:21:20   The Twitter stuff is really interesting because that's just a completely anonymous, at least

01:21:23   the YouTubers are like people and you see them and they talk, but the Twitter accounts

01:21:28   are generally these kind of anonymous accounts.

01:21:31   And I think that really is just this chain of events that just used to not happen or

01:21:35   at least used to not happen in public where somebody hears something from a contact and

01:21:40   maybe they tell their friends, "Oh, you know what I heard about Apple?"

01:21:43   And now they posted to Twitter and the whole internet sees it.

01:21:46   So that's part of it too.

01:21:48   Now I also am fascinated by that because they're risking their friend, their source, they're

01:21:53   risking their job over what?

01:22:00   And if you're just a random person on Twitter, what are you even getting out of it?

01:22:05   Your random Twitter account is popular?

01:22:09   I guess people are excited by that, but I don't know.

01:22:13   That's the dangerous part of this is that the people at Apple, the more information

01:22:17   that comes out, the easier it is to figure out who is leaking that information.

01:22:23   And there's also just so much wrong information there.

01:22:28   That also happens, right?

01:22:29   There's a lot of stuff that people could just guess at and there's just incorrect stuff.

01:22:36   And even the stuff that we've seen that is like what we just talked about before the

01:22:41   break, it could be real or it could just literally be a re-spinning of existing stuff.

01:22:52   And there's no real way to know that.

01:22:55   That's part of the problem.

01:22:56   So you get restatements.

01:22:58   And the other thing about right and wrong is sometimes the people who are judged as

01:23:02   right because they get things right all the time are less legitimate.

01:23:07   Because as we've talked about when we discussed Mark Gurman, things change inside Apple.

01:23:11   So you get, I forget what site it is that records everybody's right and wrong predictions,

01:23:17   but there are a lot of wrong predictions that were probably right at the time and then they

01:23:23   changed direction.

01:23:24   And I know that seems weird of like, well, if it didn't happen, it's a wrong prediction.

01:23:27   But if Apple, at the moment that that was reported, Apple planned on that being what

01:23:32   would happen and then things changed and it, you know, like AirPower, right?

01:23:37   Apple's working on AirPower.

01:23:38   I mean, just because AirPower didn't come out doesn't mean that they didn't work on

01:23:43   it.

01:23:44   They thought they were going to release it and they didn't.

01:23:45   And that happens internally a lot.

01:23:47   They rarely announce the product and then don't ship it.

01:23:50   But internally they change direction all the time.

01:23:52   They remove features all the time.

01:23:54   So sometimes the people who are wrong are actually the most accurate because reality

01:23:59   reflects the end result of the process.

01:24:02   Whereas these rumors are based on an earlier point in the process.

01:24:05   It's like, I understand why people get frustrated with like, say some of the stuff that's written

01:24:10   on Bloomberg and how it's written, but this is why, right?

01:24:13   Like they have to say at least one of things may change or that kind of stuff.

01:24:18   Like it has to be couched a little bit because there are much bigger publication and they

01:24:24   know that things can still change.

01:24:26   So they, they, I think they shy away from definites for that reason.

01:24:30   I think that it's potentially a more responsible way of doing the reporting if you're going

01:24:33   to do it.

01:24:34   Yep.

01:24:35   Yep.

01:24:36   It's fascinating.

01:24:37   It gives us, it gives us grist for the mill, which is great.

01:24:40   Yeah.

01:24:41   Um, the challenge is it's more noise and weeding.

01:24:46   That's why we are always going to give more weight to reports from Mark Gurman and Ming

01:24:51   Chi Kuo because they're not anonymous and they have a very good track record and I think

01:24:57   they have multiple sources and it doesn't mean they're always right, but I think that

01:25:02   they are usually accurate in reflecting what is going on at any given time, even though

01:25:09   those things can change.

01:25:10   And it's nice to, it's nice to know that stuff in advance because it gives us so much to

01:25:13   chew on on this podcast, but it gets dicey or when they're sort of random things that

01:25:18   come through that, that sometimes again, sometimes just don't come to fruition or are just restatements

01:25:23   of what we already knew.

01:25:24   Rajeev asks, do you think that other Apple services like AirPlay and Fitness Plus would

01:25:30   make it to Amazon's FireSticks in the future?

01:25:34   You know, there was just a report about how there's a new Fire TV powered TV or two that,

01:25:40   that have AirPlay on them.

01:25:41   Oh, they have AirPlay on the TVs.

01:25:43   Yeah.

01:25:44   So I feel like this is already happening.

01:25:45   As far as I can recall, AirPlay only exists on televisions, like, cause there are a bunch

01:25:51   of TVs that can do AirPlay, but I think it's just televisions.

01:25:55   I can't think of any sticks.

01:25:57   I don't think that's too, I think Roku lets you AirPlay.

01:26:00   Okay, great.

01:26:02   And you know, so, so Rajeev's like asking about Fitness Plus and one of the reasons

01:26:05   I want to put this in there is you won't need Fitness Plus anymore because Fitness Plus

01:26:09   will work with AirPlay, right?

01:26:10   Well, now it works with AirPlay.

01:26:11   It's not quite as good, but it does work with that.

01:26:14   And I also think that it's only a matter of time.

01:26:17   Like would Apple find a way, if Apple finds a way to get, the challenge is that it's like

01:26:22   the TV app.

01:26:24   So does Fitness really fit in the TV app?

01:26:26   Maybe it doesn't.

01:26:28   But I think if Apple cares about it enough, Apple will put it in there and failing that,

01:26:33   yes, there's AirPlay.

01:26:34   I think Apple is not inclined to let any of its stuff not be available.

01:26:42   Like they've, they've flipped all the way around on this.

01:26:44   But I think AirPlay is probably, you're right, Myke, the path that is the easiest because

01:26:49   it's like, well, we've got our entertainment offerings here and AirPlay and AirPlay gets

01:26:53   us everything else that's on our devices.

01:26:55   I expect that's one of the reasons they added AirPlay to Fitness Plus because where else

01:27:03   would you be AirPlaying it to?

01:27:05   Exactly.

01:27:06   You don't need to AirPlay it to an Apple TV because it already can do it.

01:27:11   So yeah, exactly.

01:27:12   That's all part of the plan.

01:27:13   Well, I mean, you can do it to a Mac now, Myke.

01:27:15   You can AirPlay it to a Mac now.

01:27:17   Is the Fitness app not on the Mac?

01:27:19   No, I don't think so.

01:27:22   I was just surprised when I see it on my iPad.

01:27:24   I think it's got the wrong icon on the iPad because I can't get my activity rings on my

01:27:28   iPad.

01:27:29   It won't show me them.

01:27:30   I know, which frustrates me immensely.

01:27:33   But yes.

01:27:35   Brian asks, why do you think Disney are not putting their new Pixar movies behind the

01:27:40   Premiere Access like they have for their live action movies?

01:27:44   Do you think Disney is losing faith in Pixar?

01:27:46   Hi, listen to Brian.

01:27:49   I think this probably has more to do, I don't know for sure, but my guess is it has more

01:27:54   to do with contracts.

01:27:56   That the Marvel movies especially have very specific profit participation for people involved

01:28:03   with them and they were made for theaters and that it is a harder thing to unravel those

01:28:09   contracts and just put them on Disney Plus rather than what they've also been doing,

01:28:16   which is doing this hybrid release.

01:28:17   So like Black Widow was in theaters and on Disney Plus.

01:28:23   And if you just put it on Disney Plus for free, I think it's a harder sell in theaters

01:28:27   than if you put it on Disney Plus for 30 bucks.

01:28:29   But I also think everybody involved with that expected that to be in theaters and had their

01:28:35   money based on how well it did in theaters and they probably had to renegotiate to do

01:28:40   Premiere Access, but at least there it's still a ticket sale of a sort.

01:28:44   So it was probably easier to make that deal.

01:28:47   So I think that's probably part of it is that the contracts on Pixar movies are probably

01:28:50   not quite as complex as on a Marvel movie.

01:28:55   I was thinking there hasn't been a Pixar movie that has been big enough, I think.

01:29:03   I think there may be some truth in that, that if it was like a really big franchise.

01:29:07   If it was Toy Story 5, they would put it behind Premiere Access.

01:29:10   But like what have they done?

01:29:12   Soul, Luca, and Onward?

01:29:14   Yeah, I think so.

01:29:16   I don't think that those movies...

01:29:20   They could have been big in theaters, but that was a different era and they also didn't

01:29:25   get the hybrid release, right?

01:29:27   It was really much more like this is just on Disney Plus now.

01:29:29   This is not me saying that these aren't good movies, right?

01:29:33   But I think that there are tiers of Pixar movies and these aren't those, right?

01:29:41   I think, for example, if Inside Out was coming out now, they wouldn't put it on Premiere

01:29:47   Access.

01:29:48   Interesting.

01:29:49   Even though I love that movie, I just don't know if it would necessarily sell itself without

01:29:54   you knowing.

01:29:55   Because I remember when they spoke about Inside Out, everyone was like, "What is going on

01:29:58   at Pixar?

01:29:59   That doesn't make any sense."

01:30:02   I remember that being a conversation at the time, like, "I don't understand what this

01:30:06   movie could possibly be."

01:30:09   So yeah, I just think that they haven't had that hit or what they think might be that

01:30:13   hit during this period of time.

01:30:16   And I think, first off, let's see what happens with the next Pixar release.

01:30:19   And are they going to be in a situation where that will be in theaters and they will also

01:30:23   do it with Disney Premiere Access?

01:30:25   Because this is a model...

01:30:26   Going forward, it's going to be really interesting to see how Disney handles Premiere Access.

01:30:32   Because it's not the same as putting everything on HBO Max, right?

01:30:37   Premiere Access, it's 30 bucks, plus you have to be a subscriber to get that movie the same

01:30:43   time it's in a theater.

01:30:46   Will they do that with other stuff?

01:30:47   Because it's less money than a family of four would pay.

01:30:51   Because I looked, we could have gone and seen Black Widow in Hawaii, and it would have cost

01:30:57   us 40 bucks.

01:30:59   And we paid 30 and we watched it on the TV in the condo instead.

01:31:04   And I was fine with that.

01:31:05   It was 30 bucks, it's nothing.

01:31:07   But if you're a family, it very rapidly is actually a money saver.

01:31:14   And Disney keeps all that money and doesn't share it with theaters.

01:31:17   So there are arguments to be made that the future model might be something more like

01:31:23   the Disney+ Premiere Access rather than the HBO, "Let's just throw it on streaming" that

01:31:28   they tried this year.

01:31:30   I do think though that another part of this to keep in mind is who the audiences are.

01:31:35   Disney is building Disney+ as a reliable place for content, including animation and for families.

01:31:40   That is the company's number one priority.

01:31:44   And I think they look at Pixar as a great way to build that service, Pixar releases.

01:31:51   I think that Pixar releases aren't going to all just become Disney+ releases.

01:31:54   I think there will be, I mean, what you said, Myke, I think there's a, in the long run,

01:31:59   and this is one of the fascinating things about Black Widow and versus the Disney+ Marvel's

01:32:03   TV shows is going forward, we have to figure out what is a movie and what is a TV show.

01:32:09   Because the Marvel stuff, it looks like they spend the money on the TV shows that they

01:32:14   spend the money on the movies to do.

01:32:18   They're quite comparable in terms of the material.

01:32:20   It really is more about format.

01:32:22   So it's like, what is a movie and what is a TV show?

01:32:27   And with Pixar, I would say, Pixar does, there is a Pixar-based TV show, but it's not produced

01:32:32   by Pixar now.

01:32:33   That's the Monsters, Inc. show.

01:32:34   But going forward, they need to decide, what's a Pixar movie that goes in theaters and is

01:32:40   a hit?

01:32:42   And what's a Pixar movie that we make for Disney+?

01:32:45   And I think they should probably make both.

01:32:49   Because why not?

01:32:50   Because it's so important to put content on Disney+.

01:32:53   So anyway, I don't know what that's going to be in the future and what their strategy

01:32:56   is.

01:32:57   It's not an easy question.

01:32:58   It's very hard.

01:32:59   I don't envy them having to figure that out.

01:33:01   But what I will say is, I think Disney is more willing to use Pixar content to drive

01:33:07   Disney+ and make it more valuable than it is to do that with Marvel releases, especially

01:33:15   since they've got Marvel shows to release on Disney+.

01:33:21   And they've probably got contractual issues and stuff.

01:33:24   But Brian is picking at a very interesting corner of this whole issue, which is, what

01:33:33   do you do with your movies?

01:33:35   Do you put them on your streaming service?

01:33:37   Do you charge for them?

01:33:38   Do you not put them on and just put them in theaters?

01:33:40   How does that all work?

01:33:42   And over the next few years, we're going to see everybody experimenting with this.

01:33:45   And Sekou asks, "Have either of you run into issues with the 2 terabyte iCloud storage

01:33:51   limit?

01:33:52   I certainly haven't, but I can see my parents running up against this limit in the future."

01:33:57   So I took a look today.

01:33:58   We have a two-person family.

01:34:00   We both have multiple devices that go into it for backups, or we like three each.

01:34:05   And we're only using 500 gigabytes of that 2 terabytes.

01:34:08   I think you'd struggle to fill 2 terabytes.

01:34:11   I don't really know what you'd be saving in iCloud to hit that, to be honest.

01:34:16   I mean, photos, I guess.

01:34:18   I have a lot of photos and stuff, and it's not an issue for me yet.

01:34:21   I think Apple will...

01:34:24   I'm sure there are some edge cases, but I feel like Apple will increase this limit over

01:34:27   time because they'll recognize it and they'll find a way to charge you for it.

01:34:31   And the truth is, if you're in the big bundle, you get 2 terabytes and you can add 2 terabytes.

01:34:37   So there is actually a way to get 4 terabytes of iCloud space, right?

01:34:41   So I don't think it's going to be a big issue.

01:34:44   And if it is an issue, I'm trying to think of how you would have that much data and have

01:34:47   to have it all be in iCloud.

01:34:51   So I don't know.

01:34:53   My guess is that it's not going to be a big deal, but I'm sure there will be an edge case.

01:34:56   So it'd be like, "Oh no, the bundle's not available where I live, and I hit the 2 terabyte limit,

01:35:02   and it all has to be in iCloud."

01:35:04   And too bad for them, I guess, but I think Apple will continue to grow this over time

01:35:10   because it's more money for Apple.

01:35:13   If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on the show, you can send out

01:35:16   a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or use question mark #AskUpgrade in the Read The FM

01:35:21   members Discord, which you'll get access to if you sign up for Upgrade Plus.

01:35:25   Go to getupgradeplus.com and you'll also get longer ad-free versions of every episode of

01:35:31   Upgrade, which is really great.

01:35:32   You can sign up.

01:35:33   It's $5 a month or $50 a year.

01:35:35   Thank you so much if you have signed up.

01:35:37   We really, really appreciate your support.

01:35:40   Thanks to DoorDash, Privacy, and Instabug for their support of this week's episode.

01:35:44   And thank you for listening, of course.

01:35:46   If you'd like to find Jason online, you can go to sixcolors.com, and he is @jsnew, J-S-N-E-L-L.

01:35:53   I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E, and we'll be back next week.

01:35:58   Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:35:59   Goodbye, Mark Hurley.

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