0:00:00[Music]
0:00:13From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 362, and today's show is brought to you by Instabug,
0:00:20Privacy and DoorDash.
0:00:22My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow.
0:00:25Hello, Jason.
0:00:26Hey, is this Upgrade, the podcast that I listen to that I'm occasionally on?
0:00:31You're completely back now.
0:00:32Welcome back to the show.
0:00:34I am completely back.
0:00:35I guarantee that I will be on this whole episode and not disappear in the middle for a while.
0:00:39Probably.
0:00:40Probably.
0:00:41How would you know, right?
0:00:42You'd have to wait and see what happens when I put some real fun.
0:00:44I don't know.
0:00:45I don't know.
0:00:46#snowtalkquestion comes from Mark and Mark wants to know, "Do you use a screensaver on
0:00:51your Mac or do you just dim your screen?"
0:00:54Yeah, I use Arial like everyone else.
0:01:01It's fine.
0:01:02I like to see it.
0:01:03I like to see it on the Apple TV.
0:01:04I don't know why I use it.
0:01:05I don't know why I don't have some other screensaver or no screensaver.
0:01:09I just do.
0:01:10It's on for a very small amount of time.
0:01:13I've got some sort of window in between when it dims the screen entirely where the screensaver
0:01:18runs.
0:01:19My answer is, Mark, yes, I can tell you I do.
0:01:23Why I do, I don't know.
0:01:25I think it's more like a mistake than something else.
0:01:27I find no value on it.
0:01:29Arial is the one where it flies around and shows you the scenery, the international spaces.
0:01:34The Apple TV screensaver is the Arial screensaver.
0:01:37On your Mac?
0:01:38Yeah.
0:01:39Is this built in?
0:01:40Is it?
0:01:41Or did I maybe...
0:01:42I think you've got an app called Arial, A-E-R-I-A-L maybe, because they're not built into the Mac,
0:01:47the Apple TV screensavers.
0:01:49Maybe I downloaded a thing that lets you do the...
0:01:52I mean, I've got it.
0:01:53I've got Arial as my screensaver, and it's literally the Apple TV screensavers.
0:01:57Okay.
0:01:58I'm going to put in the show notes what I think you have, which is a...
0:02:02Oh, you're right.
0:02:03Yeah.
0:02:04So this is how little care I put in to my screensavers.
0:02:07A million years ago, there was a story about how you could get the Apple TV screensavers
0:02:11on your Mac, and I downloaded the thing and promptly forgot about it.
0:02:18So it's there.
0:02:19I'm not going to put in your Apple TV screensavers on it, but I'm going to invalidate this whole
0:02:21Snell Talk question now by changing it to something else maybe.
0:02:25Okay.
0:02:26Or not.
0:02:27I did Arabesque for a while, which is like all the weird patterns.
0:02:30And of course, back in the day, Flurry was the classic.
0:02:33But really, it doesn't matter.
0:02:36I don't see it very often.
0:02:38And then my screen blanks after a short amount of time.
0:02:41So I've got show screensaver set to 30 minutes, and I've got turn display off to an hour.
0:02:48So for half an hour, if I step away, which I'm very rarely gone, but yeah, I am gone
0:02:53sometimes for an hour, that half an hour, it will play the aerial screensaver.
0:03:00In Monterey, I can do that cute little hello screensaver.
0:03:04Is that in Monterey?
0:03:05I think so, yeah.
0:03:07Because I have it set...
0:03:08I have that one, the hello screensaver on my iMac set after 20 minutes.
0:03:14And that is the color match screensaver that comes with the new iMacs.
0:03:21So I have that.
0:03:22I have that set for 20 minutes.
0:03:23I never otherwise would have a screensaver, but I really like this screensaver.
0:03:28And it comes as default on these Macs with the color match one that you're using.
0:03:33And it fills me with joy whenever I see it.
0:03:35So I do have that on there.
0:03:37So while we're talking about screensavers, and I used to be a big fan, I was on the screensaver
0:03:44beat briefly at Mac User when I started there.
0:03:46I wrote about After Dark and all of that back in the day, Flying Toasters, all those things.
0:03:50I even judged, they had a contest for like, people wrote screensavers and the After Dark
0:03:56people had a whole contest of like, what were the best submitted screensavers.
0:04:00And I was a judge in that.
0:04:02Things were really different back then, weren't they, Jason?
0:04:04It was a wild time.
0:04:07People were very excited about screensavers.
0:04:09And then there was underwear, which was the screensaver that ran on your desktop while
0:04:13you worked.
0:04:14So stuff happened on your desktop while you worked, which was a pretty wild thing.
0:04:19But the screensaver, my favorite screensaver of all time, and I used it for a very long
0:04:23time, it doesn't work anymore as far as I can tell.
0:04:27And I liked it because it was funny and because it also made a statement about bad network
0:04:32security.
0:04:33It was a screensaver called Surveillance Saver.
0:04:36And basically what Surveillance Saver did is there were whole networks of webcams in, and
0:04:43this is in the, I'd say early 2000s, where they're internet connected security cameras.
0:04:50And if you didn't change the default password, anybody could see what was on the camera.
0:04:58And Surveillance Saver had a catalog of all of them and would just take you to random
0:05:03security cameras every 20 seconds, it would flip to a different one.
0:05:08And first off, that's hilarious.
0:05:11Like don't do that.
0:05:12But the thing that I loved about it is that I think in the end, its list wasn't that large.
0:05:17And so you'd get favorites.
0:05:19And there was this bar in somewhere in Russia.
0:05:23And I loved that camera so much because you're flipping, you're like, oh, we're in the bar.
0:05:29And it would be like these Russian guys, like with their heads down on the bar, like passed
0:05:35out, or maybe they're active and they're moving to the music and you never know what you're
0:05:40going to get.
0:05:41There was also a lot of like a corridor or a dumpster outside some building that was
0:05:47also, I thought very, very funny.
0:05:50But anyway, Surveillance Saver, that was from a different time.
0:05:53Although we still live in an age where people have the default password for things.
0:05:56So it's not great.
0:05:58It's not great.
0:05:59Sometimes you truly never know where a Snell Talk question is going to take you.
0:06:04It's true.
0:06:05You never do.
0:06:06It could take you into the flying toasters for all we know.
0:06:08If you would like to send in a question to help us open an episode of the show, just
0:06:12send in a tweet with the hashtag Snell Talk or use question mark Snell Talk in the RelayFM
0:06:17members discord.
0:06:19So Jason, let's do a bit of summer of fun here.
0:06:23You were gone last week.
0:06:24Where were you?
0:06:26Because was revealed, I think in the Upgrade Plus.
0:06:32And you never know when you're doing...
0:06:33So we recorded my portion of that episode last week, two weeks ago, right after we recorded
0:06:39episode 360, Upgrade 360, your high quality audio.
0:06:45We didn't even talk about that, right?
0:06:47Because we didn't know.
0:06:48We got several people who wrote in after we released our lossless edition and our incredibly
0:06:54low resolution edition.
0:06:55We had several people write in to say, "Oh man, the lossless edition, it sounds so much
0:07:01better.
0:07:02You should always do a lossless edition."
0:07:03And my response was, "I think probably what you're sensing is that you're listening to
0:07:07it like in a web browser instead of in Overcast with voice boost and smart speed turned on.
0:07:13And so it sounds different, not that it sounds better."
0:07:15Although there is at least one emailer who has insisted that it does sound better on
0:07:20his iPad speakers, which I find also a little bit hilarious that like, "Oh yes, really you
0:07:26have to use an iPad speaker for the true lossless audio experience."
0:07:31I don't know.
0:07:32Anyway, thank you to everybody who wrote in about our little ironic experiment.
0:07:36But after that-
0:07:37There was more people who downloaded those files than I was expecting.
0:07:41I kind of assumed it would be like a hundred people or something.
0:07:45I'm actually going to look right now.
0:07:46I haven't looked since like the first couple of days, but let me see what we've got here.
0:07:53It was kind of for each one of them, it was about 3000 people went and did that, which
0:07:58I think is kind of hilarious that many people decided to go and check out our weird and
0:08:04wonderful audio.
0:08:06And the low resolution one where it's like you're listening to it at the bottom of a
0:08:09swimming pool is amazing.
0:08:12It's so bad.
0:08:13It's terrible.
0:08:14That one's so bad.
0:08:15I was so pleased about just how bad it was.
0:08:19So anyway, after we were done with that episode, we recorded my portions of 361.
0:08:24We talked about streaming services and we did Snell Talk and we did Ask Upgrade.
0:08:28And then you, over the week, you recorded in the middle.
0:08:31But what's funny about that is that you're making promises about the future.
0:08:35So it's like, "Oh, Jason, where are you today?"
0:08:37I'm like, "Okay, on a beach in Hawaii, probably."
0:08:43And then we finished doing upgrade.
0:08:45And I literally, then I got in the car and drove to the airport.
0:08:47So that was my Monday two weeks ago.
0:08:51It turns out that on that following Monday, I was indeed at one point on a beach in Hawaii.
0:08:55So it all worked out.
0:08:59We did a family trip.
0:09:00My daughter was down from school for a few weeks after the school year let out.
0:09:05She's going to go back up to Oregon, but she's been down for a few weeks.
0:09:09And we went for 10 days to Maui, where you went on your honeymoon.
0:09:15We were in Kihei, which is the sort of sunny beach town part of Maui.
0:09:21And yeah, 10 days, I've always thought I very...
0:09:25Usually my vacations are not that long.
0:09:28And this is the point where somebody said, I think last week I saw a tweet went by that
0:09:33said, "You know you're listening to an American when they talk about a 10-day long vacation
0:09:38as being a long vacation."
0:09:40I'm like, yeah, it's true.
0:09:41It's true.
0:09:42I'm not denying it.
0:09:43But I always have felt like the 10 days is where you get that sort of, you're able to
0:09:49fully kind of unclench from your life and be there and let it kind of wash over you
0:09:57if it doesn't really matter.
0:09:59We're here for a while.
0:10:01And I was once again reminded that that's actually true.
0:10:04That after a week, it feels like we just got here and now we have to go.
0:10:07After 10 days, I would have, don't get me wrong, would have liked to stay longer, but
0:10:11it was also like, okay, we had a good time.
0:10:13That was really nice.
0:10:14And it was...
0:10:15And so 10 days, haven't done that in a while.
0:10:19I like Maui.
0:10:20We were there two years ago for what was essentially my daughter's graduation from high school trip,
0:10:27but she broke her foot while she was dancing in her dance class.
0:10:32And so that was our trip to Hawaii where we couldn't walk anywhere because she couldn't...
0:10:37She was in a boot, the ugly shoe, we called it.
0:10:41She was in the ugly shoe.
0:10:43And so we go to the beach, but she had the ugly shoe.
0:10:49So this was kind of like a replay of that because we had such a great time and we wanted
0:10:54to go back and also at this time she wouldn't have a broken foot.
0:10:57And we did have a great time.
0:10:59So I love Hawaii.
0:11:01It's my favorite.
0:11:02And I go there and I'm like, "Oh man, I built up Hawaii way too much."
0:11:06And it's not gonna... it's gonna disappoint me.
0:11:08And you know what?
0:11:09It never disappoints me.
0:11:10It really doesn't.
0:11:11It's warm and breezy.
0:11:12And going in the summer is a little bit weird because as a kid, my parents took me to Hawaii
0:11:16a couple of times, which is why I fell in love with Hawaii.
0:11:19But there, when you're leaving the cold and rainy, going to Hawaii is like, "Oh my God,
0:11:24this is so much better."
0:11:25But the truth is this time of year here where I live tends to be foggy and cool.
0:11:31So it was a treat to be in actual summery conditions for that 10 days.
0:11:37So it was really nice to be there and to get away and to not bring a keyboard.
0:11:44I didn't bring a laptop.
0:11:45I didn't bring my iPad keyboard.
0:11:47I didn't bring a microphone, podcast or tip.
0:11:49I didn't do that either.
0:11:51I didn't edit any podcasts while I was there.
0:11:54I posted a couple of links where I'm scrolling through Twitter and I saw something interesting
0:11:58because I do have a website and the first week I was there, Dan Morin was also on vacation.
0:12:05So it's like sixcolors.com was just abandoned for a week.
0:12:09So I prewrote an article the previous week that posted and Steven Hackett wrote his members
0:12:14only piece that week.
0:12:15And I posted a couple of links from there and it was enough to keep the fire burning
0:12:22while we were both gone.
0:12:24So I did that, but that was about it.
0:12:27It was what I said to Lauren is I'm not going to do anything that I really consider work,
0:12:33but posting a link to Six Colors, like that's not, that's nothing.
0:12:37It's not a problem.
0:12:39Those posts tend to be, that's as easy as doing a share button and it's like replying
0:12:43to a tweet.
0:12:44Like it's that level of difficulty.
0:12:47So that was pretty easy.
0:12:48So yeah, it was great.
0:12:49I would like to talk to you about your Instagram because I feel like you were punishing me
0:12:55for some reason.
0:12:56So I'll give you an example of what happened here.
0:13:00So just as we're finishing up our recording and I say to Jason, I'm really pleased for
0:13:06you.
0:13:07Have a great time.
0:13:08I can't wait to see some photos, right?
0:13:09Uh huh.
0:13:10And like, yeah, okay, great.
0:13:12So Jason goes on his trip and then a couple of days in he posts a picture of some chickens.
0:13:17Chickens and I'm like, all right, fine.
0:13:19I'm looking forward to the better pictures.
0:13:21The next day, more chickens.
0:13:24You are in one of the most beautiful places on earth.
0:13:27All I want is oceans and beaches and like mountains and you're just like two, especially
0:13:33one of them is like one of the, like you basically, I don't know what you did, like 10 times optical
0:13:38zoom on this chicken or something.
0:13:40Like why were you nagging me with chickens for three days?
0:13:44What was that?
0:13:45Well, one of the things that I like about Hawaii is, especially since the hurricane
0:13:51blew through on Kauai, but even on Maui, this is the case.
0:13:54There are loose chickens everywhere.
0:13:56They're everywhere.
0:13:57Like when you're eating outside and stuff, there's just chickens everywhere, especially
0:14:00in Kihei.
0:14:01We found that.
0:14:02Yeah.
0:14:03We went to a shave ice place and um, there were just like roosters and hens and little
0:14:06chicks running around.
0:14:07I think I know that exact place.
0:14:08So I think we had shave ice there.
0:14:10There's a beautiful cafe there.
0:14:11Really nice shave ice.
0:14:12Yeah, exactly.
0:14:14So and so they're cute and they're fun and I took pictures of them and um, I'll tell
0:14:20you it's a side effect also of being with the Apple watch where I'm not always, so Lauren
0:14:26brings her phone with her, but I didn't bring my phone with me a bunch of places because
0:14:30I have my Apple watch and that means I can't, when I don't have my phone with me, I can't
0:14:33take pictures and I can't post pictures on Instagram.
0:14:36So that was, that was part of it.
0:14:39Okay.
0:14:40I did get, I did finally get around to posting actual nice pictures, but, but the first few
0:14:45days it was, uh, it was just chickens.
0:14:48Basically for two days it was just me at home screaming to Adina, he's posting more chickens.
0:14:53That was kind of all like, I was very frustrated.
0:14:56So we went, yeah, we went to Lahaina to the Banyan tree in Lahaina and there was all these
0:15:00chickens around there and I took a picture of that and then we were on a little walk
0:15:03on a beautiful, just absolutely beautiful, um, uh, by the coast and all of that.
0:15:09Uh, and we were in the, on this resort that's kind of under construction and so you have
0:15:13to walk through this different path to, to go around the shoreline and they have this,
0:15:17it's essentially like a putting green kind of quality grass and there's these benches
0:15:20and we sit down to take a little break on our hike and, uh, and in front of us there
0:15:25are a bunch of chickens.
0:15:26And so of course, have I taken a picture of the, uh, of the beautiful scenery?
0:15:29No, but look at those chickens.
0:15:31So I took another chicken picture.
0:15:32So I'll make, I'll endeavor in all future vacations to post chicken pictures for you,
0:15:38Myke.
0:15:39Thank you.
0:15:40I'll appreciate that.
0:15:41You're welcome.
0:15:42You're welcome.
0:15:43How did it feel to actually, to take a break?
0:15:44Were you, you know, we, were you anxious in any way?
0:15:50Like how did it feel to take that trip?
0:15:55I mean, I felt like I really needed it.
0:15:58I'm like, like it, somebody who works at home and very rarely leaves my house.
0:16:03And we'd done a couple of, of trips during COVID where we went to our friends who have
0:16:07a rental in Sonoma for a couple of days where they had nobody else going.
0:16:12And we just sort of slid in there for a couple of days.
0:16:14We did that in September and we did that in February, but it, and being somewhere else
0:16:19was nice, but like, it's been quite a while since I've gone away somewhere and just sort
0:16:25of not worked.
0:16:28I can not work here, but it's not a way.
0:16:31And I've gone away to like visit my mom and I've also worked, but to, to get those two
0:16:36things together, it's just, it reminds me that, um, that vacation are important for
0:16:42me just to get away, um, and to kind of heal a little bit.
0:16:47And with, uh, with the pandemic, it's been, it's been impossible to do that in certain
0:16:52ways.
0:16:53I think also one of the things that I was thinking about is the difference between a,
0:17:00an isolation trip and, and a kind of not isolation trip.
0:17:07Like this is not, we didn't go to a place where there's no internet, right?
0:17:11Like I'm part of that is a decision that I made, which is, I mean, first off, there's
0:17:16a reality that like my kids would mutiny if there was no internet, but also for me, like
0:17:23I want to read stuff on the internet too.
0:17:25Like that's not, that's not the burden that I bear as a person in the 21st century.
0:17:29It's like, I want to read that stuff too.
0:17:30I want, I, I, I'm not trying to get away from that part of it.
0:17:34I'm trying to get away from the grind.
0:17:36So I was on Twitter and I was in Slack and I saw what people were doing and people were
0:17:41talking about.
0:17:42And so you could make an argument that like, there's a whole other level of vacation that
0:17:47is this isolation.
0:17:49And you know, I, I could do that, but that was not, I didn't feel like I needed to do
0:17:55that and I didn't bother.
0:17:57And I was okay with that.
0:17:58Like I, I, I, uh, I don't know, cause I, sometimes I feel maybe I've just got an internal judge,
0:18:05but sometimes I feel like I've internalized the, the judging of the internet, which is
0:18:08like, well, you're on vacation.
0:18:09Why are you looking at Twitter?
0:18:11Why are you in Slack?
0:18:12It's like, yeah, I like those things.
0:18:15Those are not the things I'm trying to heal from and escape from.
0:18:18Um, reading about like the soccer or, you know, watching the baseball all star game
0:18:25or seeing what's going on or watching, you know, Disney plus or like, I'm not trying
0:18:30to escape those parts of the world.
0:18:31Really I'm trying to escape the grind of doing podcasts and writing articles and doing all
0:18:36and scheduling things and doodle and all of those things that I do.
0:18:40I am, you know, I'm trying to step off of that and not bring a keyboard and all of that.
0:18:46So what I found about Hawaii, which I found, um, very enticing when I was there is the
0:18:52time zone makes it really difficult to do any work, even if you wanted to.
0:18:57It's true.
0:18:58Cause you're far away from, from everyone, you know, this time of year, it's three hours
0:19:04behind California.
0:19:05So it's just as far behind California as California is behind New York.
0:19:09That means you're six hours behind New York.
0:19:10And of course that means you're 11 hours behind the UK and 12 hours behind Western Europe.
0:19:16So I, yeah, like everything already happened by the time I woke up and I was not waking
0:19:22up, I was not trying to wake up early either.
0:19:24So as the week went on, like everything had already happened and everybody was back asleep.
0:19:29And then in the evening, everything was kind of quiet on Twitter until the, the, the British
0:19:34people woke up.
0:19:36In fact, a funny thing about, about my Monday two weeks ago is we did upgrade.
0:19:42Then we did part of the next upgrade.
0:19:44Then I went to the airport and I traveled and I did all of this stuff and, and we were
0:19:48in our car and then we drive across the Island and we check in and we, we, we stopped by
0:19:53the grocery store.
0:19:54So we have stuff to eat in the morning and all of that.
0:19:56And we finally sit down, I sit down in our condo and I open a beer and I open Slack and
0:20:01I think, Hey, Hey Myke.
0:20:04And you were awake because it was already Tuesday morning.
0:20:06Yep.
0:20:07Yeah.
0:20:08That was really funny to me.
0:20:09It was a very big, long Monday for me.
0:20:12Um, so long in fact that we did a podcast, I got on a plane, I traveled and all that.
0:20:17And then you had, you had slept and woken up and it was Monday morning or Tuesday morning
0:20:22because that's how far away Hawaii is.
0:20:24And that's a nice thing too.
0:20:25So I see the value in the kind of like total isolation thing, but it's not what I was looking
0:20:29for.
0:20:30And um, and I got what I was looking for, which is again, didn't have to write any articles,
0:20:35didn't have to record any podcasts and have to edit any podcast and have to do my, what
0:20:39I consider my job part of my job.
0:20:43I just got to kind of not, there's just the freedom of kind of not caring.
0:20:48I'm like, I can get up whenever.
0:20:50I don't have a reason that I have to wake up at a particular time.
0:20:53I don't have to go a particular place.
0:20:55And I also read like eight books.
0:20:57So there was that too.
0:20:58I love that.
0:20:59Yeah.
0:21:00Well, I'm very pleased.
0:21:01They weren't all like full, like thousand page novels.
0:21:03There was, I've been going through a bunch of the Hugo award nominees for like short
0:21:08fiction and stuff.
0:21:09So I read like five novellas and a handful of novels too.
0:21:14And it's just, you know, nothing better than sitting on the beach and you read a little
0:21:17bit and then you go in the water and Bob around in the warm water for a while.
0:21:20And then you come back out, sit on the beach, read a little bit more.
0:21:24Oh, also app speaking of my Apple watch, I did at one point just, I was sitting on the
0:21:31beach listening to the waves, had my AirPod pro headphones in a pass-through mode so I
0:21:37could hear the waves and stuff and was listening to connected while sitting on the beach.
0:21:46That was pretty fun actually.
0:21:47I decided I didn't want to read anymore.
0:21:49I was a little tired of reading at that point.
0:21:50I just wanted to kind of look out at the clouds and stuff, but I wanted a little more stimulation
0:21:54than just the sound of the waves.
0:21:56So I had the sound of the waves and the sound of connected.
0:21:59Perfect.
0:22:00Really?
0:22:01What a mix.
0:22:02Living the dream.
0:22:03Yeah.
0:22:04Well, I'm very pleased for you.
0:22:05Very jealous.
0:22:06I hope that I can have a similar trip some point later in the year.
0:22:09I hope so.
0:22:10That would be nice.
0:22:12Next week's episode, we're going to do a mic at the movies.
0:22:16Yeah.
0:22:17We're going to talk about Loki.
0:22:18I really want to talk to you about Loki.
0:22:21So if people want to finish Loki before next week's episode, they can.
0:22:25And I'm naturally assuming that we will not be able to stop ourselves talking about the
0:22:29opening of Ted Lasso.
0:22:30So I figured that will probably come into conversation as well.
0:22:34So if you want to catch up by next week's episode, there's a couple of things you can
0:22:38go and listen to.
0:22:39All right.
0:22:40Let's check out that next week.
0:22:41Are we done?
0:22:42I think so.
0:22:43Is this how the podcast works?
0:22:44Nope.
0:22:45We continue from here.
0:22:46Oh.
0:22:47I'm afraid you have to stick around.
0:22:48I have to do more than one segment?
0:22:49There's way more than this.
0:22:50I have a lot more for you today.
0:22:51Oh, man.
0:22:52I need more tea.
0:22:53All right.
0:22:54Let me give you a break then.
0:22:55This episode is brought to you by Instabug.
0:22:56Building mobile apps presents some challenges from bugs and crashes to performance issues.
0:23:00It can be a nightmare for developers.
0:23:02But what if you could not only detect all of these issues, but understand the quality
0:23:06of your app from your user's point of view?
0:23:08Instabug's lightweight SDK grabs all of the insights you need to build quality applications
0:23:13through comprehensive bug and crash reports, performance monitoring, and real-time user
0:23:17feedback all in that one SDK.
0:23:20So with Instabug, you can continuously monitor and measure the performance of your application,
0:23:25as perceived by your users, engage with them by letting them report issues and questions
0:23:30right from inside your app, and get all of the information you need about any bugs, crashes,
0:23:34or issues, and fix those in record time all with a focus on privacy and security.
0:23:39And you don't have to worry about switching to new tools.
0:23:42It only takes a minute to integrate Instabug into your application, and it will fit within
0:23:46your existing workflows with support for Jira, Slack, Trello, GitHub, Zendesk, or whatever
0:23:52you use to handle your issues.
0:23:53So it just sits right in the middle really nicely.
0:23:56Join over 25,000 top mobile developers around the world who use Instabug to ship their high-quality
0:24:02apps.
0:24:05Go to try.instabug.com/upgradefm.
0:24:11To find out more, there will be a link in the show notes too.
0:24:13Our thanks to Instabug for their support of this show and Relay FM.
0:24:17So Jason, I have some Apple TV+ news for you.
0:24:21So much.
0:24:22I was collecting links.
0:24:24That's another thing I did while I was on vacation.
0:24:26There was all this news, and I was like, "Oh man, we're not going to cover this and upgrade
0:24:29for two weeks," but I just kept adding.
0:24:32We now have a little shared Apple note, and so I just keep seeing things, and instead
0:24:37of pasting them into our Slack chat, I just append them to the end of the note endlessly.
0:24:43And there was so much Apple TV+ and upstream news while I was gone, so we got to get to
0:24:48it.
0:24:50So the Apple are possibly attempting to require the film and TV show A24.
0:24:57A24 produce a lot of stuff, a lot of documentaries, a lot of movies, some television shows, and
0:25:03they already have an existing deal with Apple, which has included some stuff that's already
0:25:07come out and some movies and shows that are in production.
0:25:12And they're-
0:25:13But this is a rumor that they might actually buy the studio itself.
0:25:15It seems like A24 is attempting to put itself up for sale, and apparently, according to
0:25:20Variety, this was something that they potentially looked at in the past, but A24 seemed to not
0:25:28be interested then, but seemed to be now interested.
0:25:32The potential asking price is $3 billion.
0:25:36I have no real sense as to what that equates to when it comes to entertainment industry
0:25:43acquisitions.
0:25:44I feel like I'm much more put into tech stuff.
0:25:46$3 billion seems like a lot of money, but I guess if you get a lot of IP out of it,
0:25:51maybe it's worth it.
0:25:52So my question is, I don't even know if it's the intellectual property, and this was the
0:25:56question about when we talked about Reese Witherspoon's company, Hello Sunshine, the
0:26:01same rumor about Apple being possibly interested in that, is like, "Well, what do you buy when
0:26:07you buy a studio?"
0:26:09Apple already is sort of booting up a studio.
0:26:12I guess one of the things you buy is you buy talent in the sense of the people who work
0:26:18there and the machinery of the studio.
0:26:20So maybe it's a way to build and grow a studio fast.
0:26:26You do get whatever they've produced archivally and whatever they've got in the works.
0:26:31But that would be my question for people who are more in the know, which is like, if you've
0:26:37got an independent studio that's got a small catalog of films, but not a franchise or anything
0:26:44that you're getting out of it and not a huge catalog, when you spend $2 billion or $3 billion,
0:26:53is that what tech people would call an aqua hire?
0:26:56Are you really just trying to build out your studio ability and you're willing to pay for
0:27:01it as opposed to just spending money hiring people, which you could also do?
0:27:08That's my question.
0:27:10We've seen these stories about Apple potentially buying this stuff.
0:27:13And I think Apple's clearly kicking the tires here, but I do wonder if some of this is just
0:27:19a perception thing of like, "Oh man, Apple's got a lot of money.
0:27:21Maybe we can get some of that money."
0:27:24It's sort of wishful.
0:27:25Maybe they will acquire us.
0:27:28Because I do think Apple could just not, right?
0:27:32Apple could just keep building out its own studio structure.
0:27:36And in fact, instead of spending $3 billion on a studio, spend that money on hiring away
0:27:42the talent and paying them better, right?
0:27:44You could do that and you could build a studio.
0:27:47Buying a studio doesn't mean all those people are going to stay, right?
0:27:52That's the trick, right?
0:27:53Because certain people, they could do it where there's a deal, right?
0:27:59They get money if they stay for a certain period of time.
0:28:02But that's not going to be everybody.
0:28:04Right.
0:28:06That's my fear about something like this is you're kind of buying an empty box.
0:28:10And at that point, because I look at this and I think, "Well, 824, it seems like a nice
0:28:16company, but I don't understand why what they produced, assuming that they have ownership
0:28:21stake and all of that stuff, that doesn't seem like it's worth it."
0:28:23And maybe they like the executives there, but I'm not sure that's worth it when you
0:28:28could just spend that money to build up your own thing.
0:28:31So that's the struggle I have with this and the Hello Sunshine.
0:28:34Hello Sunshine, at least, it's sort of like maybe Apple just really likes Reese Witherspoon
0:28:40and her sensibility and the work she does.
0:28:43Hello Sunshine one I understand a little bit more because it reminds me a bit more of Beats.
0:28:50Because you get, look, if they buy Hello Sunshine, Reese Witherspoon is going to work at Apple
0:28:56for a period of time, right?
0:28:57That just feels like a done deal.
0:29:00And Hello Sunshine has got a really great reputation.
0:29:05They already have multiple projects in the works.
0:29:08And if I'm Apple, I don't want another company to own any part of the morning show.
0:29:14And that might be a scenario too where they're like, "We love what Reese's company does and
0:29:19we love working with her.
0:29:21And so what we're going to do is we're just going to own it all."
0:29:24And then the other question is, do you own it all and fold it in?
0:29:27Or do you say, "We're just going to own it all and let it run.
0:29:31And all of those projects are going to come to us first.
0:29:35And if we sell it somewhere else, well, it's us.
0:29:37So we still get the money, but we just want to be in business with that person and that
0:29:42company that the person has built."
0:29:44Like I get that.
0:29:45And so maybe that's also the case for something like A24, but I struggle with it a little
0:29:50bit because if it's somebody who's really good and has built a good system and you think,
0:29:55"I don't want to mess with it and I don't want a competitor to buy it.
0:29:59So we'll just buy it and let it run."
0:30:00I kind of get it.
0:30:01But if it's literally just, "We could build it or buy it.
0:30:05Why don't we buy it?"
0:30:07Other than if Apple just wants it to happen fast and they're like, "We can just sweep
0:30:11in A24 and A24 becomes part of Apple Studios and we're done."
0:30:16Also A24 presumably will be a processor in 10 years.
0:30:20So...
0:30:21Because, you know, I was thinking like it must frustrate Apple that TAD Lasso has so
0:30:28many companies involved in it and they're just one of them.
0:30:32Right.
0:30:33I mean, it is...
0:30:34Look, they had to do this to get off the ground, but it is the least Apple thing of all to
0:30:38think that Apple's banner project, the most important project, it turns out on Apple TV
0:30:44Plus at this point, is a Warner Brothers product.
0:30:47Well, see that...
0:30:48Ouch.
0:30:49TAD Lasso, why I bring it up specifically is it has...
0:30:52It's got Doozer, which is the production company.
0:30:55Which is Bill Lawrence.
0:30:57Yeah.
0:30:58Universal Studios and Warner Brothers all involved.
0:31:01Yeah.
0:31:02Universal's involved because of the NBC thing.
0:31:04NBC thing.
0:31:05Yeah.
0:31:06But they're still a part of it.
0:31:07Yeah.
0:31:08And I think that's a great point where it's like they have one or two partners for some
0:31:10of their other shows.
0:31:11Right.
0:31:12Of course, yeah, For All Mankind is Sony.
0:31:15Like of course there are partners and that's part of it.
0:31:19But like, I get why it's like that now, but it's not very Apple-like.
0:31:25And I think that Apple wanting to produce more of its own things, like how Netflix produces
0:31:32and Amazon produces its own things, it's inevitable.
0:31:37It's inevitable.
0:31:38I don't think Apple's ever going to be in a situation where Apple will never buy a show
0:31:41from another studio.
0:31:43That stuff happens.
0:31:44It will continue to happen.
0:31:45There are people that we're going to want to work with that are with another studio.
0:31:48It happens in that business all the time.
0:31:51But you know, the big stuff on HBO Max is from Warner.
0:31:58And the big stuff on Netflix is from Netflix.
0:32:00And the big stuff that's on Apple TV will be from Apple.
0:32:03It's inevitable.
0:32:04So that might be a reason for this sort of thing is we just got to get going on being
0:32:11our own studio and buying other studios helps us get there.
0:32:15So maybe that's their rationale.
0:32:18Apple is apparently trying to get in on NFL Sunday Ticket.
0:32:22What is NFL Sunday Ticket?
0:32:24Okay.
0:32:25Yes.
0:32:26Hello, sports fans, American sports fans.
0:32:30NFL Sunday Ticket is the package from the NFL that allows somebody to watch any NFL football
0:32:38game.
0:32:39So the way it works in America is every NFL football game is broadcast by a TV network.
0:32:46But the Sunday games are only shown locally.
0:32:49And I know that seems a little bit weird if you're not an American.
0:32:51But the idea there is if you're in Cincinnati, one of your channels is showing the Bengals
0:32:57game and the other channel is showing a random game that they've chosen.
0:33:02If you're in the Bay Area, one of your channels is showing a 49er game and the other channel
0:33:06is showing a random game.
0:33:07It used to be a Raider game.
0:33:09Now it's a random game, which means that there's this you can't if you're a fan of the Bengals
0:33:14and you live in the Bay Area, you can't see your team play unless they're on a national
0:33:19broadcast because that game isn't being shown in the local market.
0:33:23Instead, they're showing the Chargers, let's say.
0:33:27So Sunday ticket, you buy it and you get all those games, access to all those games.
0:33:32So you can watch all of them.
0:33:34They have their own red zone channel, which shows sort of like switches back and forth
0:33:38between all the games.
0:33:39Or you can just park it on one channel and watch that game.
0:33:43I used to buy this.
0:33:44Now I just get the red zone, but I used to buy this.
0:33:47It's an exclusive to DirecTV, which is a satellite provider, which is a really interesting wrinkle.
0:33:52It drove a huge amount of DirecTV sales because they were literally the only place they were
0:33:57that you could get this package.
0:33:58But that contract is running out.
0:34:01And the general feeling is that it's going to go to a streaming service that the NFL
0:34:07again, the NFL could sell it themselves direct.
0:34:11But I know we've talked about this before.
0:34:14Why sell it direct and just get money from people when you can instead get more money
0:34:19from a streaming service that's desperate to use it as a cudgel to beat people with
0:34:24to force them to subscribe.
0:34:26So basically as a consumer, the idea is they will overpay for this service in order to
0:34:30use it as a customer acquisition tool.
0:34:33So Apple being involved in it doesn't surprise me one bit.
0:34:37I think anybody who is serious about streaming in the US, about live streaming in the US,
0:34:43I guess I should say, has to view this as a super important possible product because
0:34:48it will, I mean, the NFL is the number one entertainment product in the US essentially.
0:34:54And this is giving you access to the entire NFL via streaming.
0:34:58It's a big deal.
0:34:59And in fact, if you're a sports fan and a cord cutter, presumably this package might
0:35:02even give you everything and you wouldn't even need the rest of it.
0:35:06I'm unclear on what the local blackout rules are.
0:35:08So it's a big deal.
0:35:10And we've talked about it here before.
0:35:12Sports is a huge, because it's live, it's a huge originally tool to be used by cable
0:35:17companies to keep people from cutting the cord.
0:35:20And now we're starting to see it switch, which it's also a tool for streamers to get
0:35:25people to land on their streaming service.
0:35:31If Apple were to get this, do you think they would, how would, would you think they would
0:35:36obviously charge for it?
0:35:37Would it be included in the deal?
0:35:39Well, that's a good question.
0:35:41Like would they make this like an Apple TV channel or an add on?
0:35:43We haven't seen a, an add on for Apple TV plus yet.
0:35:48Right.
0:35:49So this could be something like that.
0:35:51Right.
0:35:52I would, I, I would have a hard time.
0:35:55I mean, Apple has all the money.
0:35:56They could do it however they want.
0:35:57They could make it a pure acquisition thing.
0:35:59It feels more like they would do a, uh, like the Disney plus premier access thing where
0:36:04there'd be like Apple TV subscribers and you have to pay a price to get it for the, uh,
0:36:11for the year.
0:36:12Cause I was looking at it cause I don't really, and it's like $75 a month at the moment to
0:36:17buy the NFL Sunday ticket thing on its own.
0:36:19I think if I look correctly.
0:36:21I, yeah, I mean it's, it's only for during the football season.
0:36:24My memory is that it's, it's like a few hundred dollars to get it.
0:36:28Yeah.
0:36:29Okay.
0:36:30And you have to get a satellite dish cause it's only on the satellite, right?
0:36:32Like it's, it's serious, right?
0:36:34I actually think this is also exciting because it's going to provide this service to more
0:36:39people than are currently able to even get this service because it's been locked to this
0:36:45one distribution mechanism.
0:36:47There's some, there's some shady ways that, oh, they're not shady.
0:36:50There's some ways that you can qualify to not get it on DirecTV, but it has to be like,
0:36:54literally I'm unable to receive a satellite signal and then they can sell you a streaming
0:36:58version of it.
0:36:59It's not from DirecTV.
0:37:01Like it's, it's a whole thing.
0:37:03So this is a big deal for Apple or any other streamer if they, if they want this.
0:37:10And I think the end result is going to be somebody is going to overpay because they're
0:37:14going to want to use it for customer acquisition, like I said.
0:37:18Number 10 shot.
0:37:19Right, right.
0:37:20It's that idea of like, it's not worth it.
0:37:21It's not worth it to pay beyond this.
0:37:24If it only was just worth it as an entertainment product, I think the NFL would just sell it
0:37:30themselves and keep all the money, but they can get more money from someone else who wants,
0:37:36who adds that value in of acquiring.
0:37:38And it could be Peacock.
0:37:39It could be like they're, they had existing deals with most of the broadcasters like ESPN,
0:37:44NBC, CBS.
0:37:46So it could be a Paramount Plus thing.
0:37:47It could be a Peacock thing.
0:37:48It could be an HBO max thing.
0:37:50I mean, it could be anywhere ESPN plus.
0:37:55But Apple has been, obviously Apple is intrigued by the idea of sports and by the idea of,
0:38:03of live events, not live TV and the sort of cable over the top cable replacement service
0:38:09sort of thing as much as in the, what if there was a live event thing and they haven't really
0:38:14broken that seal yet, but I think maybe there are strategy people at Apple who think they're
0:38:21going to need to do this because this is going to be an important strategic move to get people
0:38:29to subscribe to your service.
0:38:31Apple has done some new ideals with some large creators.
0:38:34I couldn't think of a better word than creators, but I think it works.
0:38:38Okay.
0:38:39Adam McKay has done a multi-year first look for feature films.
0:38:43McKay is recently most famous for movies like the big short and vice and is an Oscar winner.
0:38:50McKay is interesting because McKay had a long term relationship with Will Ferrell and basically
0:38:55made all comedy movies for a long time and great ones and then started making really
0:39:00good and serious movies.
0:39:01So he's an interesting figure and has set up a production company of his own recently,
0:39:07which is where some of these newer movies came from.
0:39:10And this, there is now a multi-year first look with Adam McKay is quite intriguing to
0:39:15me.
0:39:16Yeah.
0:39:17I'm unclear whether all of his work is from his company or not.
0:39:22Cause this is technically a first look deal with his production company, but I would assume
0:39:28that other than whatever existing deals he's got, that the goal here is to, is to have
0:39:33his work come from this company.
0:39:34But first look is a big deal, right? because that's basically saying, if Apple wants it,
0:39:40you can buy it.
0:39:41Now I'm unclear what I don't see here in the, in the story about this is what that first
0:39:46look means in terms of theatrical release, because sometimes there's first look that
0:39:52means that Apple can buy it, but that part of the deal will be, you still need to screen
0:39:56it in a theater.
0:39:58And then it will go on Apple TV.
0:40:00And I don't know that because right, because that's a different thing is, is this, does
0:40:03this go direct to streaming or does it go to a theater and then go to streaming?
0:40:07I don't know that part, but it's another example of Apple getting in business with somebody
0:40:11who they consider, you know, a talented content creator.
0:40:14And this is Apple playing the HBO game to a certain degree, which they are absolutely
0:40:19playing.
0:40:20The classic HBO, like we said last week, when I was pre-taped being the old HBO and being
0:40:27seen as paying a lot, having money and paying for quality and wanting to create kind of
0:40:33a quality selection of content, not do too much, but have it all be of a certain level
0:40:37of quality.
0:40:39One of the ways you play that game is by tying in creators who you like and you think do
0:40:46good work.
0:40:48Also including Misha Green, who is also signed a multi-year overall deal for TV projects.
0:40:54Green is the creator of Lovecraft Country on HBO.
0:40:57Yeah.
0:40:58So she, this is interesting too, because her show on HBO just got canceled and nominated
0:41:04for a bunch of Emmys, which is so painful.
0:41:08She's been tweeting out like her, her story outline or like the headings of her story
0:41:13outline for season two of Lovecraft Country.
0:41:14And Lovecraft Country is, it was a really good show and it's now been nominated for
0:41:19all these awards and HBO canceled it the week before it got nominated for those awards.
0:41:23I'm starting to wonder if the reason they canceled it when they did is so that they
0:41:26didn't have to cancel it after it got nominated for all of the Emmy awards.
0:41:31But this is, this is like quite literally Apple kind of coming in and saying, we know
0:41:35that HBO didn't take care of you, but we will take care of you.
0:41:39Interesting.
0:41:40And it's Ted Lasso season baby.
0:41:43This Friday season two begins and the Ted Lasso marketing machine is at 100% top gear
0:41:52full throttle right now.
0:41:55Season two reviews are out.
0:41:56I haven't read any of them because I don't feel the requirement to do it.
0:42:01But at the moment it is a 100% on Rotten Tomatoes with 24 critics reviews.
0:42:07So yeah, the reviews are positive and say that it sort of picks up where it left off.
0:42:12For those people who are worried that its initial success might have an effect on it,
0:42:16my understanding is that they wrote the whole season before there was any reaction to the
0:42:20first season, the whole second season.
0:42:21So the whole second season was conceived before they even knew that people loved Ted Lasso.
0:42:26They were already on it.
0:42:28Obviously they shot it afterward, but they were already writing it and conceiving it
0:42:32beforehand.
0:42:34So this is great.
0:42:35By the way, a note for people who are excited about Ted Lasso, Apple is dropping the episodes
0:42:39one at a time.
0:42:40They're not doing their dropping three for the premiere and all that.
0:42:43They've already got a whole season of Ted Lasso in the can for people to watch.
0:42:47So they're going to drop them one at a time.
0:42:48And I think there are 12 episodes this season.
0:42:50It's an expanded episode order.
0:42:52It's not 10 like last year.
0:42:53So it'll be weekly for, I guess, 12 weeks as it rolls out.
0:42:58So you only get one episode at a time, folks.
0:43:01Now because of the way that TV and awards work, it's kind of strange because now is
0:43:08when a lot of the awards season is occurring for stuff that happened previously.
0:43:14So season one of Ted Lasso is now receiving all of its award nominations.
0:43:19It picked up 20 of Apple's 35 Emmy nominations.
0:43:24So Apple TV+ got 35 Emmy nominations across its whole slate, including Mythic Quest, For
0:43:29Mankind and others.
0:43:30But 20 of those went to Ted Lasso.
0:43:34This makes Ted Lasso the most nominated first season of a comedy show in history, being
0:43:39Glee, who was the previous holder of that title.
0:43:44Ted Lasso is also leading nominations in both the Hollywood Critics Association Awards and
0:43:49the Television Critics Association Awards.
0:43:52And again, the TCA also gave love for For Mankind and Mythic Quest.
0:43:57Disney's got a bunch.
0:43:58You know, it's obviously a big story, but Ted Lasso is leading the way in everything
0:44:04right now.
0:44:05I mean, if we pull back for the bigger picture, it's kind of funny too that the Emmy nominations,
0:44:10which there was this whole story like, "Oh, look, Cable is on the Emmys now."
0:44:15And then it was, "Oh, some streaming is on the Emmys now."
0:44:18And I think there's one network TV show nominated in the drama category and in the comedy category,
0:44:24and everything else is on streaming.
0:44:26And it really is like, it's Netflix and Amazon and Disney+ and Apple TV+ and HBO Max.
0:44:35It's really just sort of reflecting what reality is, which is that it's all completely flipped
0:44:39over now.
0:44:40But the idea that Apple, of all companies, has like some Emmy favorites at this point
0:44:48is hilarious.
0:44:49But I think that Ted Lasso is a favorite for a lot of these awards.
0:44:54I think that's, Apple's going to get some real hardware.
0:44:57Remember when you and I would be like, "Oh, Apple just wants to get that Oscar."
0:45:00Well, okay.
0:45:01And they want to get those Emmys.
0:45:02It's like, all right, well, it's going to happen now.
0:45:05This is, this is, yeah.
0:45:06I think Ted Lasso is cleaning up at the Emmys.
0:45:09I think so.
0:45:10I think it's going to do really, really well at the Emmys.
0:45:12Like probably at least 10.
0:45:15Like they're going to win a lot of Emmys, which is great.
0:45:19There was like, on all of this awards hype is just perfect timing for them because this
0:45:24is all happening.
0:45:25Like if you don't, like if you hadn't heard of Ted Lasso, wasn't sure of it, now it's
0:45:30like, "Oh, like this is really heavily awarded, like all nominated."
0:45:33And it's just the season two is getting ready to begin.
0:45:36There have also been some really great stories this week about how Jason Sudeikis basically
0:45:41just seems to be a lot like Ted Lasso, which is again, just like only warming people to
0:45:46the idea.
0:45:47There's a really amazing article that I don't want to spoil by Myke Ryan over at Uproxx,
0:45:52which is just really touching and really beautiful that I put in the show notes that people should
0:45:56read.
0:45:57Yeah.
0:45:58Jason Sudeikis, it's funny too, because he played, he's played a lot of jerks.
0:46:01Like he's the strapping, broad shouldered white guy, jerk role in lots and lots of things.
0:46:09Handsome, charming, like kind of, yeah.
0:46:12He must be a jerk, right?
0:46:14And so Ted Lasso, yes, it seems like it's much more, he is a much more kind of thoughtful,
0:46:19sensitive guy and that Ted Lasso is channeling a lot of that.
0:46:22What I found funny, I'm not sure if it was in that Uproxx article or in a different article,
0:46:26but somebody, several people have asked him like, "Are you Ted Lasso?"
0:46:30And he, his usual response is, "Well, I'd like to be, I feel like the best parts of
0:46:35me are Ted Lasso."
0:46:37But there's one interview with Sudeikis that revealed that he would use that line and then
0:46:43his friends would receive, would see it and respond.
0:46:47And they would say, "No, that's not right.
0:46:51You are Ted Lasso."
0:46:53So like the people who know Jason Sudeikis are like, "You're not giving yourself enough
0:46:56credit as being a good person."
0:47:00So that's also kind of fun to hear.
0:47:02And then he went again, like he did on the, like, so they had a premiere for the show,
0:47:07which Tim Cook attended, which is really interesting to me.
0:47:10Oh yeah, he's got his arms around Jason Sudeikis.
0:47:12I think he only attended the premiere for the morning show.
0:47:16I think they didn't really have a lot of premieres, but I know he attended the morning show premiere
0:47:21and I could not find any, I was looking around for this today.
0:47:24I couldn't find any other premieres that he seemed to have attended.
0:47:28Of course he attended the Ted Lasso.
0:47:29I don't even think they had a premiere for the first season of Ted Lasso.
0:47:33But at this, Sudeikis is wearing a shirt, which is in support of some English footballers
0:47:39who have received racial abuse after the European Cup final, the Championship final.
0:47:44And so I, it's just again, it's like, "Oh look, he's Ted Lasso."
0:47:48Because he's just a genuinely good seeming person.
0:47:52Yeah, it's nice.
0:47:54Yeah, really great.
0:47:55And the show was great.
0:47:56And I think, yes, I think there's some truth in that, that the show being what it is, it
0:48:01is among all the other things that are great about it, it feels very authentic.
0:48:05I don't think people who were faking it could make that show.
0:48:09So I love it.
0:48:10Looking forward to it.
0:48:11Friday or if you want to stay up late, midnight Pacific on Thursday, you can tune that in.
0:48:18You know, we watched the Loki finale on Tuesday night when we were in Hawaii because those
0:48:26episodes drop at midnight Pacific.
0:48:28And so at 9 p.m. on Tuesday, ha, why people again, I'll just say it, hey, streaming services,
0:48:36you really should drop your shows at 8 p.m. Eastern time.
0:48:39That's when you should do it.
0:48:40Come on, come on, do it then.
0:48:43Or just do it so late that it has to be the next day.
0:48:46Right?
0:48:47Like that, you know, anyway, I also want to give a recommendation for Schmigadoon, which
0:48:53is a new Apple TV Plus show that may have gone under the radar because the name is so
0:48:59complicated to think about, say, or like this is the musical.
0:49:04It is a musical based show.
0:49:07It is really weird and kind of cute and funny.
0:49:12So I thought it was a movie and it turns out it's a TV show.
0:49:16So that's one thing.
0:49:17I had that exact thing too.
0:49:19I originally thought it was a movie.
0:49:20I had no idea.
0:49:21Because it looks like a movie.
0:49:22The problem I have with the name is it's like, so it's like Brigadoon.
0:49:25And I saw the trailer and again, like I thought the trailer looked interesting, although I
0:49:29did think it was a movie, but calling it Schmigadoon, I feel like it's like too much.
0:49:33I think it's a bad name because it, it, it, first off, I think it's a hacky joke.
0:49:39And second, if you're really kind of playing a loving tribute to this, to name the location
0:49:46of your show and name your show after this sort of really dumb Brigadoon reference is,
0:49:52I don't know, I think it was a creative mistake, but having good things about the show, I will
0:49:59give it a try.
0:50:00It's, it's charming and funny and weird.
0:50:04And the cost is superb, right?
0:50:07Like the people that they've gotten.
0:50:10But I also, I, something about me that kind of likes when a TV show does something musical
0:50:16and then just hires a bunch of people that were clearly in musicals.
0:50:19Like I just kind of like that.
0:50:20There's just something about it.
0:50:22It feels very authentic to being a musical.
0:50:25Like the way that people move and talk, it feels like it's a musical.
0:50:28But what's funny is the main characters, they are not in the musical.
0:50:33So I recommend it.
0:50:35It's really good.
0:50:36It's really, really good.
0:50:38This episode is brought to you by privacy.com.
0:50:42Privacy is a tool that makes it easy to manage your financial lives online while keeping
0:50:46your most important information secure.
0:50:49What it does is generates virtual card numbers for you.
0:50:51It masks your bank information so you never have to worry about giving it out to people
0:50:55you don't know online.
0:50:57You know, you may have gone to a website and you want to buy this product, but you don't
0:51:01know the website and they have a checkout system that you're not sure of and you maybe
0:51:05don't want to give them your card number.
0:51:08Privacy.com you don't have to because you can create these virtual card numbers.
0:51:11You put them in.
0:51:12It's super cool.
0:51:13One of the things that I love as well is it integrates directly with 1Password.
0:51:18So as well as all of your card information that you save in there, you can create, use
0:51:21and save your privacy cards all within your 1Password dashboard.
0:51:26They have all the same security benefits and you can set spend limits.
0:51:29You can create single use or merchant locked cards whenever you want.
0:51:33And the merchant lock stuff is really interesting.
0:51:35So you can create something, a card for say a company that you're giving $10 a month to
0:51:41and all of a sudden maybe they overcharge you.
0:51:44Well, you can stop that with privacy.
0:51:46You can set limits and all that kind of stuff so you never get overcharged.
0:51:49So you take back the control of your payments.
0:51:52You can decide who charges your cards, how much and how often.
0:51:55You can close them super easily at any time.
0:51:58You make sure that you're never accidentally billed twice, never upgraded to another service.
0:52:02It is really, really cool.
0:52:04This is the kind of stuff that technology can do and just like take you that extra step
0:52:08rather than just having to worry about that little card number anymore.
0:52:11It's really smart.
0:52:13So go to privacy.com/upgrade and you can sign up for an account today.
0:52:17New customers get $5 to spend on your first purchase, which is basically free money.
0:52:22Go to privacy.com/upgrade and sign up right now.
0:52:26Thanks to Privacy for their support of this show and Relay FM.
0:52:29So considering we took our week off, I want to do a bit of catch up time.
0:52:33A lot of little stories to touch on.
0:52:35It's a weird time of year as well.
0:52:38So Beta 3 of iOS, iPadOS and macOS Monterey came out and the biggest changes is the Safari
0:52:47stuff.
0:52:48So a bunch of tweaks on iOS, but the most notable changes have been on the Mac.
0:52:53So on the iPhone, the address bar, the little floating address bar now stays pinned to the
0:52:58bottom.
0:52:59It lives above the keyboard when you bring the keyboard up rather than flying to the
0:53:02top of the screen like it did before, which is kind of wild.
0:53:05And they've made some other little tweaks and stuff to iOS, but the Mac has seen the
0:53:10biggest changes.
0:53:11Have you been playing?
0:53:12Have you had time to check out the new Safari at all yet?
0:53:17Only on iPad where it hasn't changed because that's the only beta I had with me and so
0:53:22no I haven't looked at the others.
0:53:23The iPad had some tweaks, but not a lot.
0:53:25Like they changed some of the spacing and they put a share icon back in the kind of
0:53:30top toolbar, which is good.
0:53:31Yeah.
0:53:32On Friday when I was very jet lagged, I did update my beta Mac to the new beta and took
0:53:38a brief look at Safari enough to say that while it's nice that they brought back the
0:53:45address bar and all that, I actually think it's worse in some ways than the previous
0:53:51beta because the tabs are completely disconnected from the content to the point where I can't
0:53:58tell which tab is active when I'm using it.
0:54:02I think it's still really bad.
0:54:03The good news is that it is a work in progress and it's like the PR cycle for this is they
0:54:11announce it and they announce it with pride.
0:54:14And then behind the scenes, I think some of us who have been paying attention could tell
0:54:20that like even the PR folks and even the product manager folks, when they talked about it after
0:54:27the announcement, were not fully behind it.
0:54:29I just got a sense that maybe there was a little bit of uncertainty there.
0:54:36Hard to quantify that, but that was the sense I got.
0:54:39And now we have, there was a John Gruber post last week where he basically said, "Talking
0:54:43to folks at Apple, there are more changes to Safari coming."
0:54:46So we've entered the second phase of this, which is essentially damage control.
0:54:51It's basically saying, "I know that the initial Safari thing was really dramatic, but we know
0:54:56that it's a problem and we're fixing it."
0:54:59And I would ask, "Why did this not all happen before you announced it?
0:55:03Why did you have to announce it and then have everybody yell about it and now you're going
0:55:07to spend the summer trying to fix it?"
0:55:09But it's encouraging in the sense that what Gruber is reporting is, according to people
0:55:15inside Apple, this is not the end product.
0:55:18This is, they are now, and it's very clear, right?
0:55:20Like they had time to do something on the Mac and nothing on the iPad essentially with
0:55:25this interface.
0:55:26So I think we're going to be spending the next couple of months watching Safari kind
0:55:31of drift from beta to beta and hopefully land somewhere decent.
0:55:36- There's something I think about with this stuff is like, we'll get Safari, it will come
0:55:43out and it will be probably changed in some way, but much closer to what we had before
0:55:49than them, at least on the Mac and on iPadOS.
0:55:53I think it's going to look really different on the iPhone still, but they're just going
0:55:56to tweak it and make it a better experience.
0:55:57But it's always so, I find it interesting to think like that WWDC keynote, it's like
0:56:04wrong now, right?
0:56:06Like they should, it's like, "Here's Safari and here's all the stuff it does."
0:56:10But then by the time we get Safari at the end of it, you go back and watch it, that's
0:56:14not the same thing anymore.
0:56:15And I find that just like, it doesn't mean anything, but it's like an interesting thought
0:56:19to me of like, you know, just in these three months, it goes from like, we had this, we've
0:56:23been working on this and we have this great idea and it comes out and it just, it changes.
0:56:29So I've had this conversation a couple of times on podcasts the last couple of months
0:56:34where there's an argument to be made that one of the reasons that Apple sticks with
0:56:38features in the beta, even though that they're, even though they're controversial is because
0:56:46Apple believes in them.
0:56:48And sometimes the argument is that there's a precedent that is set, like you announced
0:56:53it at WWDC so that there's some sort of weight there on Apple to release what they announced
0:57:00at WWDC, the way they did it.
0:57:03I don't agree with that.
0:57:04As somebody who's been writing about in this beta cycle since they started doing it, where
0:57:10they announce a beta in June and then they roll it out in September or October, I can
0:57:15tell you that beta amnesia is real, that nobody except the super wired in technology nerds
0:57:28even remembers other than the most vague sort of announcements, if that from WWDC, the truth
0:57:36is we can write about it all we like and talk about it all we like in June and July and
0:57:42August, but most people are not paying attention until it shows up on their device or they're
0:57:46prompted to install it on their device in the fall.
0:57:50And so I think Apple, if having to choose between, oh, this is going to be a PR disaster
0:57:58and people hate it.
0:58:00And yes, but the precedent of WWDC, they're always going to go with a damage control and
0:58:06getting a better product that people like better in the fall.
0:58:09And so I think it is a weird historical document.
0:58:14It will be not what they ship, but I think the truth is almost nobody cares about what
0:58:19they announced other than us.
0:58:21And by the fall, we won't even care that much.
0:58:23So that's my argument is that I know that they put a lot into that and it's a little
0:58:28bit baffling that they immediately were like, oh yeah, that was a bad idea.
0:58:31Like, well, then why did you put it in the keynote?
0:58:34But the keynote, it drifting away from what the keynote shows, Apple's going to be fine
0:58:39with that because they just like, really it's like whistling past the graveyard.
0:58:44It's like, nope, nope, nope.
0:58:45Safari was always like this.
0:58:47What are you talking about?
0:58:48And they're just not going to even like WWDC is forgotten, right?
0:58:51That's why they restate OS features in the fall.
0:58:53And those of us who follow this stuff are like, yeah, yeah, yada, yada, yada, because
0:58:57we've heard it all before and it's like a rerun.
0:59:00But the reason they do it is they know nobody else was paying attention.
0:59:03And if they were paying attention, they didn't remember.
0:59:05So you know, but when it's on a new iPhone or a new Mac, then it's a big deal for them.
0:59:13MagSafe battery pack has appeared into existence.
0:59:17It is $99.
0:59:19It is just a little battery brick that you stick to the back of your phone with MagSafe
0:59:24and it will wirelessly charge for you.
0:59:26There is Apple recommends a 20 watt charger for the best performance, but this is of course
0:59:31sold separately, but any charger will recharge the battery pack in your phone if you have
0:59:36them together, but it will just take a bit longer to do it.
0:59:40It appears to have a slightly smaller or not so slightly smaller battery than the previous
0:59:45cases that Apple made, like the battery charging cases.
0:59:50And somebody has been posting images on Reddit, I think, that they picked one up from in Memphis.
0:59:56So I don't know if Steven is involved, probably not, but who knows?
0:59:59It is a person called Steven, so I don't know, maybe it's actually Steven Hackett.
1:00:04Of this one, and I'll be honest, I think it looks super ugly, like it looks really weird,
1:00:09but it kind of, what does it matter how it looks?
1:00:11It's just a little battery that sticks on the back of your phone.
1:00:15I think it doesn't help that this person had a Max, they had a 12 Max, which I think it
1:00:21looks super weird on that.
1:00:22You'll notice in Apple's marketing materials, they do not show what this thing looks like
1:00:27on the largest phone.
1:00:28It's just on two smaller phones.
1:00:30I think that might be for a good reason.
1:00:33So yeah, they've updated the marketing materials, actually.
1:00:37There is one on the Max phone now, but it doesn't look as bad as the images that I've
1:00:40put a link to in the show notes.
1:00:42What do you think about this product?
1:00:45It's not for me, and that's kind of the end of that.
1:00:49Yeah, okay, so I'm going to go with you here and just say, it's also not for me.
1:00:57I have heard from people who are very excited about it, who talk about the ease of not having
1:01:03to have a cord or anything, and you just attach it and it almost fills your battery.
1:01:13If what you want is a super clean and simple, this is a blob, it magnetically adheres to
1:01:19the back of my phone, and then it gives it more power, and I don't have to carry around
1:01:24a different blob with a cable in order to do that, and that's worth it to me, then I
1:01:30can't stop you from buying this product.
1:01:34However, I think this is a terrible product, and I'll tell you why.
1:01:41It's not that big a battery.
1:01:44Inductive charging is super inefficient, which means that it's going to lose a bunch of what's
1:01:49in the battery and not transfer it properly to the phone.
1:01:52If you look at how much it will refill a phone, it's really not very good.
1:01:58It won't refill your phone from nothing.
1:02:00It'll get it up some, but it won't refill it.
1:02:04The stat-sized source suggested only the Mini could get a full recharge.
1:02:08Yeah, and I'm just going to top it off by saying, if you've got a big, heavy battery
1:02:13blob in your pocket, is it really that much more work to also have a little cable and
1:02:20have an efficient data transfer?
1:02:24And the answer, again, if the answer is yes, I just don't want that.
1:02:28I want this.
1:02:29It's super clean and simple.
1:02:30I get it.
1:02:31That's why Apple makes it.
1:02:32That's why they sell it, and you should get it.
1:02:35But I would say, for most people, if you want a battery to carry with your iPhone, there
1:02:42are better options that are going to charge it more and charge it more efficiently and
1:02:49cost less.
1:02:50So that's what I think about the MagSafe battery pack.
1:02:54I'm glad for the people who are excited about it, and they know who they are, but I would
1:03:00not buy one of these.
1:03:03If somebody gave me one, I guess I might use it, but I would never buy one.
1:03:08It seems like a really bad value to me.
1:03:12Yeah, I agree.
1:03:13If you're the type of person that wants it, you know you want it, and this is probably
1:03:17everything you wanted, but I agree with you.
1:03:19I think it's expensive.
1:03:20I think it's wild that the charger that's best for it, you don't get it with it for
1:03:23$100.
1:03:24I don't think it looks that great.
1:03:26I think it's super thick, and the battery's small, and it won't charge my...
1:03:29If I'm going to buy any of these products, I want to get at least one full recharge of
1:03:34my phone out of it.
1:03:35Otherwise, I would look elsewhere.
1:03:36And plus, look, I'm not a MagSafe charging person anyway.
1:03:41I am a PopSocket user.
1:03:42I use the regular PopSocket and the magnetic PopSocket.
1:03:46I am a MagSafe charging person.
1:03:49And in fact, my iPhone has not been plugged in more than it was plugged in when I was
1:03:55on vacation, because I didn't bring a MagSafe charger with me on vacation.
1:03:59And I came back to the MagSafe charger, and I'm like, "Oh, MagSafe charger."
1:04:02I like it.
1:04:03I like it.
1:04:04But yeah, the truth is that this is...
1:04:06We're getting reaction to this in our chat room right now too.
1:04:10This is it.
1:04:11The reason you buy this is because you don't care that it's inefficient, and you don't
1:04:16care that it's thick.
1:04:18The point is it snaps on magnetically, and it puts more juice in your phone, and then
1:04:24you can take it back off.
1:04:26And you just want to keep it as simple as possible.
1:04:29And it is as simple as possible.
1:04:31You pay for that in numerous ways.
1:04:33But if that's your top priority, is just, "I want it as simple as possible," this is
1:04:38the product for you.
1:04:40And that's why I'm not saying don't buy it.
1:04:42I'm just saying that if you're somebody who wants to save money and get a better product,
1:04:48there's literally...
1:04:49You can spend less money and get something better, a lot better than this thing.
1:04:53So that's your trade-off.
1:04:54And just be aware of it.
1:04:57If I might read about this product at all, it's because I think a bunch of people are
1:05:00going to buy this who are just wandering into an Apple store, and it'd be like, "Oh, this
1:05:05looks really great," and assume that it's better than it actually is when there are
1:05:10much better options.
1:05:11But that's life.
1:05:12That happens all the time, that people buy things that are more expensive and not as
1:05:15good because they're in front of them or because they've got the right brand name on them.
1:05:19So I wanted to let it out there, that it's great that this product exists.
1:05:24I wouldn't buy it in a million years.
1:05:27This isn't saying that if you want it, that it's bad or you shouldn't get it.
1:05:30It's just different.
1:05:31No, go ahead and...
1:05:32Well, I'm going to reference back to last week's show.
1:05:34One of the things I loved about last week's show is that you and Merlin talking about
1:05:38what we had said the previous week, which is like, "Look, if it makes you happy, right?
1:05:42Like if putting a beta on your phone makes you happy, go ahead and do it.
1:05:45Life's too short.
1:05:47Put it on your phone.
1:05:48If this product is the one that delights you, buy it."
1:05:52But I do want to put out a note of caution there, which is there's actually a lot of
1:05:55asterisks attached to this product.
1:05:58And if you're somebody who would rather get a better deal and is willing to trade some
1:06:01of the simplicity for more battery power and less money, there are better options than
1:06:07this.
1:06:08I've got some reports from Bloomberg.
1:06:11Debbie Wu is reporting an LTPO display will be featured on at least one iPhone 12.
1:06:17This type of display is similar technology that was used in the Apple Watch.
1:06:20So it's a model for variable and therefore higher refresh rate displays as well, looking
1:06:25at promotion.
1:06:26We talked about this.
1:06:27I feel like we speculated about this on the opposite side for the Apple Watch.
1:06:31And it's the idea that the Apple Watch has an OLED display that allows this refresh rate
1:06:37to be variable, which on the Apple Watch, what they want is they want to crank it way
1:06:41down.
1:06:42Right?
1:06:43Like they want to save, when they're not animating something on the screen, they want to crank
1:06:46the frame rate way down and save energy.
1:06:49And this is saying now that Apple, and this is Apple invented technology, which is interesting,
1:06:54Apple patented technology.
1:06:56So other device makers are creating like-
1:06:59I did not know that.
1:07:01LTPO-like technology, but I believe LTPO itself came from Apple.
1:07:07But in the end, this technology will be everywhere anyway.
1:07:10There are other LTPO phones and stuff, but my understanding is that Apple's the one that
1:07:13kind of like has a bunch of the patents and that there are like alternate versions of
1:07:18it that don't use Apple's patents.
1:07:20But it's a clever idea.
1:07:21I think it originated because of the Apple Watch.
1:07:24But regardless of all that, the idea here is how do we do a promotion OLED display on
1:07:28an iPhone?
1:07:29And the answer is you use this technology to do that.
1:07:32The next iPhones as well will feature camera improvements to the whole line and a smaller
1:07:37notch, which is I think all stuff that we were assuming.
1:07:41Makes it seem a lot less like a minor update cycle, huh?
1:07:45Yeah, I've seen people saying that this seems minor, but I think they're not understanding
1:07:50it's I think the difference that this high refresh rate display could fill an iPhone.
1:07:54Is this not the usual iPhone story too, which is that there's definitely a group of people
1:07:58who think that the only way that the iPhone has a major update is when it looks different.
1:08:03And those people exist and then those consumers exist, right?
1:08:07Where it's like, what I care is that it looks different.
1:08:09And then there's the truth of it, which is Apple often changes the exterior design on
1:08:14a year where the interior isn't, I mean, the, the specs aren't as radically different.
1:08:20And then the next year the phone looks exactly the same, but it's actually quite different
1:08:23in terms of what it's doing.
1:08:26And some people are like, oh man, but this is so much different.
1:08:29And other people are like, eh, it's the same as last year, whatever.
1:08:32And it's just, we're all looking for different things in our phones.
1:08:35But this sounds like this is not a, you know, 12s boring update kind of thing.
1:08:40If they're putting in promotion and improving cameras across the line and reducing the size
1:08:44of the notch, like that's a lot of stuff going on in the iPhone.
1:08:49Mark Gurman says that this display technology in the iPhone could actually result in the
1:08:54first always on display in an iPhone as well, which is really intriguing.
1:08:57Right, it goes back to the Apple watch, right?
1:08:59You know, what you want to do is keep it on, but, but basically knock off the, the, the
1:09:03refresh rate because you just want to keep some, some static images on and maybe you
1:09:08update it every second, but you know, you're not doing a 30 or 60 times a second and you
1:09:14save a lot of power that way.
1:09:16So if they can bring the always on watch technology to the iPhone, sounds great to me.
1:09:22I, I've been hoping that they would do that since they went to OLED.
1:09:25Mark Gurman also suggests that the mini LED screen MacBook Pro refresh will be coming
1:09:32sometime between September to November.
1:09:34So we're just getting further reports about this thing now, which I think continues to
1:09:39lend to its certainty around that period.
1:09:42And I think this is, this is Mark Gurman's newsletter again.
1:09:45So thank you to Mark Gurman for putting his newsletter out over the weekend so that we
1:09:48get to be the first podcast up to talk about all of his reports.
1:09:52Love it.
1:09:53Thank you, Mark.
1:09:54Friend of the show.
1:09:55Um, and, uh, the detail I gleaned from this also is that the mini LED screen has been
1:10:01kind of targeted as the holdup.
1:10:03Yes.
1:10:04That, that this is an ambitious set of laptops that are using the same mini LED, uh, technology
1:10:09that we saw in the 12.9 inch iPad Pro M1 iPad Pro, um, which was, uh, which looks great.
1:10:18It's an amazing screen.
1:10:19You try to imagine on the Mac and you're like, wow, that'll look great.
1:10:22And I'm sure it will, but it's also led to some production challenges.
1:10:29So it may not be as much about the legacy nodes after all.
1:10:32And it's about the ambition of that display, uh, that's led it to be kind of a slipped
1:10:37it slipping to the fall, but you know, a fall MacBook Pro announcement is not, um, outside
1:10:43of the rumors that it would come sooner.
1:10:44It's actually like the right time for that kind of announcement, right?
1:10:48It's not surprising at all that you might get some fancy new MacBook Pros in the fall
1:10:52that that happens a lot.
1:10:53It seems to me, Ming Chi Kuo is reporting that we will see mini led come to the 11 inch
1:10:59iPad Pro next year, which I don't know if I would have expected quotes because it quote
1:11:05seems to suggest that there will be new iPad Pros next year.
1:11:09Like there will be a refresh of 12.9, um, at the same time, which is, so here's the
1:11:15thing, if there's going to be an M2 and we're going to see it across the Mac line and they're
1:11:24going to rev, this is the question, right?
1:11:25It's the chip question to me.
1:11:27If they're going to do an M2 and then these macro pros are probably M1X, right?
1:11:32They're there.
1:11:33The M1 technology scaled up with more cores, uh, whatever they call it.
1:11:36We'll, we'll call it M1X for now.
1:11:38We'll see what they call it.
1:11:39If there's an M2, which is just next generation, it's based on the next chip generation, it's
1:11:43going to power the next generation of MacBook Airs and all of that.
1:11:45And other low end systems, they'll be faster than the M1, but they're not the high end
1:11:49ones.
1:11:50This is like the lower end chip next generation.
1:11:52If they do that, and there is a rumor that we'll get to in a second about an M2 MacBook
1:11:57Air coming in 2022.
1:11:58If they, if they're taking the new chip architecture that rolls out in the fall with the iPhone
1:12:03and doing the more cores version of that for the low end Macs and the iPad Pros.
1:12:09Well, if you've got an M2, why would you not, even if you don't add a whole lot else to
1:12:14the iPad Pro, if you're making the M2 anyway, why would you not put the M2 in the iPad Pro
1:12:20at some point during the annual processor cycle?
1:12:23So it may be that we see updates to the MacBook Air and the iPad Pro and some other products
1:12:30that are using that base chip.
1:12:32Now that they're all on the same chip, it may just be in Apple's best interest to move
1:12:38them all to the new chip every year.
1:12:40No wonder.
1:12:42So on that chip, there's been more reports.
1:12:45This one comes from, I got this from 9to5Mac.
1:12:49They're reporting that a leaker known as Dylan DKT suggests that Apple will release a new
1:12:54MacBook Air in various colorways of an M2 chip in the first half of 2022.
1:12:59This is, you know, similarly with this, this kind of reporting is coming from a lot of
1:13:03areas.
1:13:04But it's just one of the many reports that makes this suggestion.
1:13:08And it makes a lot of sense, right?
1:13:10That like there is the M number, right?
1:13:13It's kind of, it's the iPhone model, right?
1:13:14That there's the lowest chip is the one with just the letter and the number, and then they
1:13:19add another letter on the end, and then that's more powerful and goes into the other, like
1:13:23to iPads and stuff like that.
1:13:25This is how they've done it before.
1:13:27Yeah.
1:13:28And this, so same thing, right?
1:13:29The, um, what we don't know, right?
1:13:32Okay.
1:13:33Apple Silicon, there's the M1.
1:13:34That's literally it.
1:13:35That's literally it.
1:13:36We have rumors, but all we have is one single chip.
1:13:41So what we don't know about Apple Silicon going forward is where to from here.
1:13:47And some of that is what does a more powerful Apple chip on a Mac look like?
1:13:52Is that M1X?
1:13:53What does it look like?
1:13:54We don't know.
1:13:55We got some ideas.
1:13:56There are rumors.
1:13:57Great.
1:13:58We don't know for sure.
1:13:59What is, uh, you know, and what's the path for things like the Mac Pro.
1:14:03All of that is a question.
1:14:04The other big question is what is the cycle?
1:14:07What is the cadence of releases for this stuff?
1:14:12And what does that do to Apple's product releases?
1:14:14Because remember with Intel, Apple couldn't control when the new generations of chips
1:14:20came out and came out in the volumes that Apple needs in order to ship, right?
1:14:24All that was up to Intel, but on the iPad and iPhone side, like Apple does the chips
1:14:31for the products.
1:14:32And when the product that needs the chip comes out, the chip is ready and chip goes in the
1:14:36product and the product ships like Apple controls the whole thing.
1:14:39So with M1, we've seen now M1 is in all of these different products.
1:14:44So how often do you go up a generation?
1:14:47How often, when will we see M2 and when will we see M3?
1:14:51And is it going to be on a regular cycle?
1:14:53Is it going to be every year or every 18 months or whatever, given that the iPhone chip cycle
1:14:58is 12 months, right?
1:15:00There's always a new iPhone every year with a new chip design.
1:15:05I kind of feel like the M1, M2 cadence is going to be annual.
1:15:11And if that's true, then I'm really interested to see what Apple does with product refreshes,
1:15:18right?
1:15:19That's the other mystery here is this rumor is about new MacBook Airs.
1:15:22Well, we just had new MacBook Airs.
1:15:24So, and it's not quite a year, it's a little bit later, but like we just had a new MacBook
1:15:28Air.
1:15:29We're going to get a new MacBook Air again.
1:15:30We just had a new iPad Pro.
1:15:31We're going to get a new iPad Pro again.
1:15:33But like maybe the answer is yes.
1:15:35And maybe us being used to these kind of long time periods between Apple product updates,
1:15:42especially on the Intel Mac side, have gotten us sort of down on Apple's ability to refresh
1:15:48its devices.
1:15:49But now that Apple's making its own chips, I mean, you could argue that once that that
1:15:54chip is out there, it actually, you need to update your systems because it's going to
1:15:59make those old systems look bad.
1:16:01That you know, like, wait, there's an M2.
1:16:03Why is this still in the M1?
1:16:04Why is this not an M2?
1:16:06So I don't know what they're going to do.
1:16:09But I think that's one of the things I'm most looking forward to over the next year is like
1:16:13starting to figure out what is Apple's product release philosophy for these things.
1:16:17If Apple could control everything, and now they can, they're not under Intel's thumb,
1:16:22how often would they do a new MacBook Air?
1:16:26Maybe it's every year.
1:16:27And it's M1, M2, M3, M4, and it's just like, it's just like a new iPhone.
1:16:30There's a new Mac.
1:16:31There's a new everything every year with the latest year's chip in it.
1:16:36Is that there?
1:16:37That's ambitious, but they could do it.
1:16:39Is that the plan?
1:16:41We'll see.
1:16:42But I am excited because give me those colorful MacBook Airs.
1:16:45Looking forward to that.
1:16:47This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by our friends over at DoorDash.
1:16:51Hey, did you forget that thing at the store?
1:16:54You know, you've got home and you're like, oh, darn it.
1:16:56We want to, I forgot that there's chips.
1:16:58I forgot the drinks.
1:16:59It doesn't matter because now you can get snacks, drinks, household essentials, whatever
1:17:03you want in 30 minutes with DoorDash.
1:17:05You know already that DoorDash connects you with the restaurants you love right to your
1:17:09door, but you can also now get those grocery essentials that you need with DoorDash too.
1:17:13Everything delivered in under an hour.
1:17:15You can get it right at your home.
1:17:17Ordering is super easy no matter what it is you want to order.
1:17:19You just open the DoorDash app, choose what you want from where you want, and your items
1:17:24will be left safely outside your door with their contactless delivery drop-off setting.
1:17:28They have over 300,000 partners in the US, Puerto Rico, Canada, Australia, so you can
1:17:33support your neighborhood go-tos or choose from your favorite national restaurants like
1:17:37Popeyes, Chipotle, and the Cheesecake Factory.
1:17:40Jason, can you tell Upgrade listeners why they should check out DoorDash?
1:17:44Well, you know, sometimes you just don't want to go out and there's not food in your home.
1:17:48We actually just had this when we came back from vacation.
1:17:51Oh, perfect time.
1:17:53Before you get in a rut and you're like, "Oh, I hate everything.
1:17:55Everything is terrible."
1:17:57And you don't want to go out, right?
1:17:59That's the thing is you could go out if things are open out.
1:18:02You could go do takeout.
1:18:05And the difference here is that you just don't need to go outside.
1:18:07You go on the internet and go boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, and add all the ingredients
1:18:11in or, you know, all the different items off the menu and you give them a time.
1:18:15And if you want to do it in advance, it'll just show up magically at the time you want
1:18:18to eat.
1:18:19That happens a lot in our house where it's sort of like we do our meal planning in the
1:18:22morning of like, "What is the plan for dinner?"
1:18:24Because if you wait around until it's dinner time and nobody has a plan, it gets real bad.
1:18:29So and you can use DoorDash then or you can use DoorDash to order that thing in advance
1:18:34after everybody's agreed on it.
1:18:35So I think it's really great when you hate everything and you just want food and you
1:18:40don't want to go outside to get it.
1:18:41Guess what?
1:18:42They'll bring it to you and they'll put it outside your door.
1:18:44I love it.
1:18:45For a limited time, listeners of this show can get 25% off and zero delivery fees on
1:18:49their first order of $15 or more, just download the DoorDash app and enter the code UPGRADE2021
1:18:55if you're in the US and UPGRADEAUS if you're in Australia.
1:18:58That's 25% off up to $10 in value and zero delivery fees on your first order.
1:19:04When you download the DoorDash app in the App Store, use the code UPGRADE2021 if you're
1:19:09in the US and UPGRADEAUS if you're in Australia.
1:19:12One last time, UPGRADE2021 for the US, UPGRADEAUS for Australia, that will get you 25% off your
1:19:18first order with DoorDash, subject to change, terms apply.
1:19:21Our thanks to DoorDash for their support of this show and Relay FM.
1:19:25Let's finish up with some #AskUpgradeQuestions.
1:19:30George would like to know, why do you think, and this is actually relating to that last
1:19:33point that we spoke about, why do you think there are or seem to be more public Apple
1:19:38leakers than there ever was before?
1:19:41I don't know.
1:19:42Apple is a big company and there have always been people within Apple who have wanted to
1:19:49get information out because they get, I think, excited about it.
1:19:54And we had a long discussion about this a while ago, like consider the source, where's
1:19:57this coming from?
1:19:58But there are definitely people who just enjoy the fact that they know things the public
1:20:04doesn't know and like to leak that stuff out.
1:20:08And those are the real Apple leakers.
1:20:10Apple leakers are people who work at Apple and then leak information to the outside.
1:20:14That's the true leak.
1:20:17I think the difference now is that not only is Apple bigger and higher profile, but that
1:20:23information that might've just kind of laid there, unless it was to a very particular
1:20:28person in a position of media authority.
1:20:34Now it's so much easier to be a person with information from a friend or a friend of a
1:20:38friend and put it on Twitter and put it on YouTube.
1:20:44And I think that that makes a difference is that it's just easier for it to get out.
1:20:48There's more clout available to you too than there was before for those reasons.
1:20:53I feel like there seems to be an increasing reason for somebody to want to be the person
1:21:00who gives that information to the world more so than there was years ago.
1:21:04Yeah.
1:21:05I think that there's also the same thing that motivates somebody on the inside to leak that
1:21:09information is the thing that motivates somebody to set up a Twitter account or whatever and
1:21:15or a YouTube channel or whatever it is and get that information out there.
1:21:20The Twitter stuff is really interesting because that's just a completely anonymous, at least
1:21:23the YouTubers are like people and you see them and they talk, but the Twitter accounts
1:21:28are generally these kind of anonymous accounts.
1:21:31And I think that really is just this chain of events that just used to not happen or
1:21:35at least used to not happen in public where somebody hears something from a contact and
1:21:40maybe they tell their friends, "Oh, you know what I heard about Apple?"
1:21:43And now they posted to Twitter and the whole internet sees it.
1:21:46So that's part of it too.
1:21:48Now I also am fascinated by that because they're risking their friend, their source, they're
1:21:53risking their job over what?
1:22:00And if you're just a random person on Twitter, what are you even getting out of it?
1:22:05Your random Twitter account is popular?
1:22:09I guess people are excited by that, but I don't know.
1:22:13That's the dangerous part of this is that the people at Apple, the more information
1:22:17that comes out, the easier it is to figure out who is leaking that information.
1:22:23And there's also just so much wrong information there.
1:22:28That also happens, right?
1:22:29There's a lot of stuff that people could just guess at and there's just incorrect stuff.
1:22:36And even the stuff that we've seen that is like what we just talked about before the
1:22:41break, it could be real or it could just literally be a re-spinning of existing stuff.
1:22:52And there's no real way to know that.
1:22:55That's part of the problem.
1:22:56So you get restatements.
1:22:58And the other thing about right and wrong is sometimes the people who are judged as
1:23:02right because they get things right all the time are less legitimate.
1:23:07Because as we've talked about when we discussed Mark Gurman, things change inside Apple.
1:23:11So you get, I forget what site it is that records everybody's right and wrong predictions,
1:23:17but there are a lot of wrong predictions that were probably right at the time and then they
1:23:23changed direction.
1:23:24And I know that seems weird of like, well, if it didn't happen, it's a wrong prediction.
1:23:27But if Apple, at the moment that that was reported, Apple planned on that being what
1:23:32would happen and then things changed and it, you know, like AirPower, right?
1:23:37Apple's working on AirPower.
1:23:38I mean, just because AirPower didn't come out doesn't mean that they didn't work on
1:23:43it.
1:23:44They thought they were going to release it and they didn't.
1:23:45And that happens internally a lot.
1:23:47They rarely announce the product and then don't ship it.
1:23:50But internally they change direction all the time.
1:23:52They remove features all the time.
1:23:54So sometimes the people who are wrong are actually the most accurate because reality
1:23:59reflects the end result of the process.
1:24:02Whereas these rumors are based on an earlier point in the process.
1:24:05It's like, I understand why people get frustrated with like, say some of the stuff that's written
1:24:10on Bloomberg and how it's written, but this is why, right?
1:24:13Like they have to say at least one of things may change or that kind of stuff.
1:24:18Like it has to be couched a little bit because there are much bigger publication and they
1:24:24know that things can still change.
1:24:26So they, they, I think they shy away from definites for that reason.
1:24:30I think that it's potentially a more responsible way of doing the reporting if you're going
1:24:33to do it.
1:24:34Yep.
1:24:35Yep.
1:24:36It's fascinating.
1:24:37It gives us, it gives us grist for the mill, which is great.
1:24:40Yeah.
1:24:41Um, the challenge is it's more noise and weeding.
1:24:46That's why we are always going to give more weight to reports from Mark Gurman and Ming
1:24:51Chi Kuo because they're not anonymous and they have a very good track record and I think
1:24:57they have multiple sources and it doesn't mean they're always right, but I think that
1:25:02they are usually accurate in reflecting what is going on at any given time, even though
1:25:09those things can change.
1:25:10And it's nice to, it's nice to know that stuff in advance because it gives us so much to
1:25:13chew on on this podcast, but it gets dicey or when they're sort of random things that
1:25:18come through that, that sometimes again, sometimes just don't come to fruition or are just restatements
1:25:23of what we already knew.
1:25:24Rajeev asks, do you think that other Apple services like AirPlay and Fitness Plus would
1:25:30make it to Amazon's FireSticks in the future?
1:25:34You know, there was just a report about how there's a new Fire TV powered TV or two that,
1:25:40that have AirPlay on them.
1:25:41Oh, they have AirPlay on the TVs.
1:25:43Yeah.
1:25:44So I feel like this is already happening.
1:25:45As far as I can recall, AirPlay only exists on televisions, like, cause there are a bunch
1:25:51of TVs that can do AirPlay, but I think it's just televisions.
1:25:55I can't think of any sticks.
1:25:57I don't think that's too, I think Roku lets you AirPlay.
1:26:00Okay, great.
1:26:02And you know, so, so Rajeev's like asking about Fitness Plus and one of the reasons
1:26:05I want to put this in there is you won't need Fitness Plus anymore because Fitness Plus
1:26:09will work with AirPlay, right?
1:26:10Well, now it works with AirPlay.
1:26:11It's not quite as good, but it does work with that.
1:26:14And I also think that it's only a matter of time.
1:26:17Like would Apple find a way, if Apple finds a way to get, the challenge is that it's like
1:26:22the TV app.
1:26:24So does Fitness really fit in the TV app?
1:26:26Maybe it doesn't.
1:26:28But I think if Apple cares about it enough, Apple will put it in there and failing that,
1:26:33yes, there's AirPlay.
1:26:34I think Apple is not inclined to let any of its stuff not be available.
1:26:42Like they've, they've flipped all the way around on this.
1:26:44But I think AirPlay is probably, you're right, Myke, the path that is the easiest because
1:26:49it's like, well, we've got our entertainment offerings here and AirPlay and AirPlay gets
1:26:53us everything else that's on our devices.
1:26:55I expect that's one of the reasons they added AirPlay to Fitness Plus because where else
1:27:03would you be AirPlaying it to?
1:27:05Exactly.
1:27:06You don't need to AirPlay it to an Apple TV because it already can do it.
1:27:11So yeah, exactly.
1:27:12That's all part of the plan.
1:27:13Well, I mean, you can do it to a Mac now, Myke.
1:27:15You can AirPlay it to a Mac now.
1:27:17Is the Fitness app not on the Mac?
1:27:19No, I don't think so.
1:27:22I was just surprised when I see it on my iPad.
1:27:24I think it's got the wrong icon on the iPad because I can't get my activity rings on my
1:27:28iPad.
1:27:29It won't show me them.
1:27:30I know, which frustrates me immensely.
1:27:33But yes.
1:27:35Brian asks, why do you think Disney are not putting their new Pixar movies behind the
1:27:40Premiere Access like they have for their live action movies?
1:27:44Do you think Disney is losing faith in Pixar?
1:27:46Hi, listen to Brian.
1:27:49I think this probably has more to do, I don't know for sure, but my guess is it has more
1:27:54to do with contracts.
1:27:56That the Marvel movies especially have very specific profit participation for people involved
1:28:03with them and they were made for theaters and that it is a harder thing to unravel those
1:28:09contracts and just put them on Disney Plus rather than what they've also been doing,
1:28:16which is doing this hybrid release.
1:28:17So like Black Widow was in theaters and on Disney Plus.
1:28:23And if you just put it on Disney Plus for free, I think it's a harder sell in theaters
1:28:27than if you put it on Disney Plus for 30 bucks.
1:28:29But I also think everybody involved with that expected that to be in theaters and had their
1:28:35money based on how well it did in theaters and they probably had to renegotiate to do
1:28:40Premiere Access, but at least there it's still a ticket sale of a sort.
1:28:44So it was probably easier to make that deal.
1:28:47So I think that's probably part of it is that the contracts on Pixar movies are probably
1:28:50not quite as complex as on a Marvel movie.
1:28:55I was thinking there hasn't been a Pixar movie that has been big enough, I think.
1:29:03I think there may be some truth in that, that if it was like a really big franchise.
1:29:07If it was Toy Story 5, they would put it behind Premiere Access.
1:29:10But like what have they done?
1:29:12Soul, Luca, and Onward?
1:29:14Yeah, I think so.
1:29:16I don't think that those movies...
1:29:20They could have been big in theaters, but that was a different era and they also didn't
1:29:25get the hybrid release, right?
1:29:27It was really much more like this is just on Disney Plus now.
1:29:29This is not me saying that these aren't good movies, right?
1:29:33But I think that there are tiers of Pixar movies and these aren't those, right?
1:29:41I think, for example, if Inside Out was coming out now, they wouldn't put it on Premiere
1:29:47Access.
1:29:48Interesting.
1:29:49Even though I love that movie, I just don't know if it would necessarily sell itself without
1:29:54you knowing.
1:29:55Because I remember when they spoke about Inside Out, everyone was like, "What is going on
1:29:58at Pixar?
1:29:59That doesn't make any sense."
1:30:02I remember that being a conversation at the time, like, "I don't understand what this
1:30:06movie could possibly be."
1:30:09So yeah, I just think that they haven't had that hit or what they think might be that
1:30:13hit during this period of time.
1:30:16And I think, first off, let's see what happens with the next Pixar release.
1:30:19And are they going to be in a situation where that will be in theaters and they will also
1:30:23do it with Disney Premiere Access?
1:30:25Because this is a model...
1:30:26Going forward, it's going to be really interesting to see how Disney handles Premiere Access.
1:30:32Because it's not the same as putting everything on HBO Max, right?
1:30:37Premiere Access, it's 30 bucks, plus you have to be a subscriber to get that movie the same
1:30:43time it's in a theater.
1:30:46Will they do that with other stuff?
1:30:47Because it's less money than a family of four would pay.
1:30:51Because I looked, we could have gone and seen Black Widow in Hawaii, and it would have cost
1:30:57us 40 bucks.
1:30:59And we paid 30 and we watched it on the TV in the condo instead.
1:31:04And I was fine with that.
1:31:05It was 30 bucks, it's nothing.
1:31:07But if you're a family, it very rapidly is actually a money saver.
1:31:14And Disney keeps all that money and doesn't share it with theaters.
1:31:17So there are arguments to be made that the future model might be something more like
1:31:23the Disney+ Premiere Access rather than the HBO, "Let's just throw it on streaming" that
1:31:28they tried this year.
1:31:30I do think though that another part of this to keep in mind is who the audiences are.
1:31:35Disney is building Disney+ as a reliable place for content, including animation and for families.
1:31:40That is the company's number one priority.
1:31:44And I think they look at Pixar as a great way to build that service, Pixar releases.
1:31:51I think that Pixar releases aren't going to all just become Disney+ releases.
1:31:54I think there will be, I mean, what you said, Myke, I think there's a, in the long run,
1:31:59and this is one of the fascinating things about Black Widow and versus the Disney+ Marvel's
1:32:03TV shows is going forward, we have to figure out what is a movie and what is a TV show.
1:32:09Because the Marvel stuff, it looks like they spend the money on the TV shows that they
1:32:14spend the money on the movies to do.
1:32:18They're quite comparable in terms of the material.
1:32:20It really is more about format.
1:32:22So it's like, what is a movie and what is a TV show?
1:32:27And with Pixar, I would say, Pixar does, there is a Pixar-based TV show, but it's not produced
1:32:32by Pixar now.
1:32:33That's the Monsters, Inc. show.
1:32:34But going forward, they need to decide, what's a Pixar movie that goes in theaters and is
1:32:40a hit?
1:32:42And what's a Pixar movie that we make for Disney+?
1:32:45And I think they should probably make both.
1:32:49Because why not?
1:32:50Because it's so important to put content on Disney+.
1:32:53So anyway, I don't know what that's going to be in the future and what their strategy
1:32:56is.
1:32:57It's not an easy question.
1:32:58It's very hard.
1:32:59I don't envy them having to figure that out.
1:33:01But what I will say is, I think Disney is more willing to use Pixar content to drive
1:33:07Disney+ and make it more valuable than it is to do that with Marvel releases, especially
1:33:15since they've got Marvel shows to release on Disney+.
1:33:21And they've probably got contractual issues and stuff.
1:33:24But Brian is picking at a very interesting corner of this whole issue, which is, what
1:33:33do you do with your movies?
1:33:35Do you put them on your streaming service?
1:33:37Do you charge for them?
1:33:38Do you not put them on and just put them in theaters?
1:33:40How does that all work?
1:33:42And over the next few years, we're going to see everybody experimenting with this.
1:33:45And Sekou asks, "Have either of you run into issues with the 2 terabyte iCloud storage
1:33:51limit?
1:33:52I certainly haven't, but I can see my parents running up against this limit in the future."
1:33:57So I took a look today.
1:33:58We have a two-person family.
1:34:00We both have multiple devices that go into it for backups, or we like three each.
1:34:05And we're only using 500 gigabytes of that 2 terabytes.
1:34:08I think you'd struggle to fill 2 terabytes.
1:34:11I don't really know what you'd be saving in iCloud to hit that, to be honest.
1:34:16I mean, photos, I guess.
1:34:18I have a lot of photos and stuff, and it's not an issue for me yet.
1:34:21I think Apple will...
1:34:24I'm sure there are some edge cases, but I feel like Apple will increase this limit over
1:34:27time because they'll recognize it and they'll find a way to charge you for it.
1:34:31And the truth is, if you're in the big bundle, you get 2 terabytes and you can add 2 terabytes.
1:34:37So there is actually a way to get 4 terabytes of iCloud space, right?
1:34:41So I don't think it's going to be a big issue.
1:34:44And if it is an issue, I'm trying to think of how you would have that much data and have
1:34:47to have it all be in iCloud.
1:34:51So I don't know.
1:34:53My guess is that it's not going to be a big deal, but I'm sure there will be an edge case.
1:34:56So it'd be like, "Oh no, the bundle's not available where I live, and I hit the 2 terabyte limit,
1:35:02and it all has to be in iCloud."
1:35:04And too bad for them, I guess, but I think Apple will continue to grow this over time
1:35:10because it's more money for Apple.
1:35:13If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on the show, you can send out
1:35:16a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or use question mark #AskUpgrade in the Read The FM
1:35:21members Discord, which you'll get access to if you sign up for Upgrade Plus.
1:35:25Go to getupgradeplus.com and you'll also get longer ad-free versions of every episode of
1:35:31Upgrade, which is really great.
1:35:32You can sign up.
1:35:33It's $5 a month or $50 a year.
1:35:35Thank you so much if you have signed up.
1:35:37We really, really appreciate your support.
1:35:40Thanks to DoorDash, Privacy, and Instabug for their support of this week's episode.
1:35:44And thank you for listening, of course.
1:35:46If you'd like to find Jason online, you can go to sixcolors.com, and he is @jsnew, J-S-N-E-L-L.
1:35:53I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E, and we'll be back next week.
1:35:58Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.
1:35:59Goodbye, Mark Hurley.
1:36:00[MUSIC PLAYING]
1:36:02[MUSIC PLAYING]
1:36:04[MUSIC PLAYING]
1:36:06[MUSIC PLAYING]
1:36:08[MUSIC PLAYING]
1:36:10[MUSIC PLAYING]
1:36:12[MUSIC PLAYING]
1:36:15[MUSIC PLAYING]
1:36:17[Music]